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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discuss the top political headlines with some of

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Speaker 1: today's best minds. And according to The New York Times,

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Speaker 1: the Desanta's campaign has burned through nearly forty percent of

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Speaker 1: every dollar he's raised in his first six weeks without

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Speaker 1: ever airing a single television ad.

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Speaker 2: What a show we have for you today.

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Speaker 1: White House Senior advisor Mitch Landrew explains why Joe Biden

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Speaker 1: has been able to build the strongest economy and generations.

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Speaker 1: Then we'll talk to NYU laws Noah Rosenblum about why

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Speaker 1: Trump and the Heritage Foundation's plans to expand executive power

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Speaker 1: are so scary and dangerous. But first we have former

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Speaker 1: Vermont governor and close personal friend of mine presidential candidate

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Speaker 1: Howard Dean. Welcome back to Fast Politics, Howard Dean.

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Speaker 3: Bank nice for having me on as always.

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Speaker 1: You're a fan favorite and also one of my favorites.

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Speaker 3: That's the more important.

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Speaker 1: It's true, I want to talk to you about this.

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Speaker 1: I feel like this Republican primary world, we're just watching it.

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Speaker 2: It's so interesting to me. We keep seeing the whole week.

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Speaker 1: I feel like was a lot of reporting about the

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Speaker 1: DeSantis campaign having a reset again and again and again.

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Speaker 1: Talk to me about what you're seeing with this crazy

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Speaker 1: Republican primary.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think it's the most fascinating thing is that

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Speaker 3: all the Republican money is going into Body Cannedy's campaign

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Speaker 3: and no labels. Basically, this is John Roberts legacy. Democracy

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Speaker 3: is for sale, and it is. If you put tons

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Speaker 3: and tons of money into doing all kinds of weird

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Speaker 3: things to undermine the Democratic Party, your opposition, you have

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Speaker 3: a better shot. And these guys, the oligarchs, the right

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Speaker 3: wing oligarchs, are spending money so as a disrupt democracy

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Speaker 3: because they know, in a straight up vote that's fair,

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Speaker 3: the Democrats are going to win. Knock of the Democrats

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Speaker 3: are so wonderful, But because I think people really do

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Speaker 3: want to live in a democratic country, right, I.

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Speaker 1: Mean, it definitely seems like this is the move. It's

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Speaker 1: this Harlan Crow kind of prop up. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: also think it's like they know Trump can't grow the

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Speaker 1: elector ad so and they know they can't take down

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Speaker 1: Trump because they're too cowardly, and so they've decided that

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Speaker 1: this third party option is the only way they can win.

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Speaker 3: Yes, Well, that's true. I don't think they're too cowardly

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Speaker 3: to trade takedown Trump. I think they can't take down Trump.

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Speaker 3: They want their money. You know, Republican conferences are great

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Speaker 3: because they run up huge deficits by giving tax cuts,

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Speaker 3: which is George W did it, George HW did it,

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Speaker 3: Reagan did it. Trump certainly did it. They give huge

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Speaker 3: tax cuts for rich people and then they blame and

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Speaker 3: the enormous deficits on the Democrats are too much spending.

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Speaker 3: At this point, they're talking about cutting Social Security and

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Speaker 3: most people don't want to do that, no matter what

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Speaker 3: political part they're in. So is what the Roberts Court

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Speaker 3: did is make democracies for sale, and now many years

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Speaker 3: after Citizens United, these decisions are coming home to roost.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's certainly true.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you see with this Republican primary group, every

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Speaker 1: strong candidate has their own superpack, right.

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Speaker 3: I mean the billions and billions of dollars going into this,

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Speaker 3: many of them are un reported. I mean, they literally

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Speaker 3: bought the Supreme Court. They're flying around justices on their

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Speaker 3: planes and then they put billions of dollars into the

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Speaker 3: process by which Supreme Court justices i mean are are selected.

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Speaker 3: They have destroyed the Supreme Court. Well, the Supreme Court's

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Speaker 3: destroyed itself, but the billions and billions of dollars that

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Speaker 3: are behind this are extraordinary. Look, these oligarchs do not

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Speaker 3: give a damn about democracy. They do not care. And

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Speaker 3: that's true in all societies, not just in the United States.

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Speaker 3: We for a long time had a bulwork against that,

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Speaker 3: although we almost lost it in the nineteen twenties, and

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Speaker 3: fortunately Roosevelt came out long and check some of their power.

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Speaker 3: But they've worked very hard in the last century to

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Speaker 3: get it back, and now they have it back and

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Speaker 3: we are on the precipice.

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Speaker 1: Let me ask you, I just want to get to

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Speaker 1: Roosevelt for a minute. I'm sure you saw this MTG

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Speaker 1: speech where she compared Biden to Roosevelt and what Biden

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Speaker 1: is doing to the New Deal, and I was wondering

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Speaker 1: if you had thoughts on that.

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Speaker 3: I think that's probably true. I'd like to see Biden

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Speaker 3: expand the New Deal, and I think most people would

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Speaker 3: like to see Biden. I mean, the right wingers think

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Speaker 3: that Roosevelt is a bad word. Well, Roosevelt doesn't mean

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Speaker 3: much to many of the people that are still alive,

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Speaker 3: but he did save the country, and ironically, Franklin Roosevelt

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Speaker 3: saved capitalism from itself. And we're going to have to

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Speaker 3: try that again, and it's not so easy.

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Speaker 2: Will you say more about saving capitalism from itself?

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Speaker 3: I think capitalism works, but nothing works without some regulation,

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Speaker 3: some checks and balances. And what the right winger Republican

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Speaker 3: Party has done by the same technique as Hitler, they

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Speaker 3: through hay in Anger, they have put the oligarchs in control,

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Speaker 3: and the oligarchs that are in control because they have

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Speaker 3: lots and lots of money. And the problem is there's

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Speaker 3: no reasonable solution. You can't fight somebody who owns their

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Speaker 3: own television network with the small amounts of small donations.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it helps, but it's small donations. So Roosevelt

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Speaker 3: came along when this happened in the nineteen twenties and

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Speaker 3: finally the economy collapse, which is eventually what will happen

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Speaker 3: here if this keeps up. Is he put in place

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Speaker 3: guard for the ordinary people, for farmers who are starving,

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Speaker 3: for old people who had no medical insurance and were

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Speaker 3: dying in their apartment. And he put in play some

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Speaker 3: guard so that capitalism worked for everybody and any system.

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Speaker 3: I don't care what system it is, is not going

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Speaker 3: to work unless it works for everybody. This system that

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Speaker 3: we now have does not work for everybody. And the

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Speaker 3: Democrats know it. Sometimes they're courageous enough to say it,

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Speaker 3: and sometimes they aren't. And the Republicans hope the system

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Speaker 3: keeps working for them because all they care about is power.

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Speaker 3: They really don't care about the country.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean it's funny because I think about right now,

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Speaker 1: these Republicans, a lot of Republican governors are certainly Sarah

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Speaker 1: Sanders and her ilk are loosening child labor laws in

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Speaker 1: the hope of right. I mean, so insane. And now

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Speaker 1: you're starting to see stories about children getting hurt on

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Speaker 1: the line. I mean that seems like a really good example.

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Speaker 4: And why are they doing it?

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Speaker 3: Because child children are cheaper and you don't have to

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Speaker 3: give them a lot of benefits because they can get

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Speaker 3: some state benefits. So it makes your business run easily,

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Speaker 3: so you give more money than you're the Republican representative

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Speaker 3: who keeps undermining safety standards for children. And here they

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Speaker 3: are talking about the terrible threat that the point one

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Speaker 3: percent of the American is who a transgender post and Meanwhile,

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Speaker 3: the business community is putting our kids to work when

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Speaker 3: they're fifteen years old in dangerous jobs, and the Republicans

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Speaker 3: are saying that's just great. This is insane. It's going

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Speaker 3: to end badly, and these guys will not have any

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Speaker 3: control over the ending. But the couples that will tell

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Speaker 3: you to be the end of the country if it happens.

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Speaker 3: So we just need some sanity. Unfortunately, forty eight percent

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Speaker 3: of the people in Washington, DC have none, or maybe

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Speaker 3: it's a smaller percentage than that, but the other ones

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Speaker 3: are too afraid to confront the people in their own party.

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Speaker 1: So I'm looking at like last week and this week's

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Speaker 1: House schedule and an included platforming. RFK Junior included yet

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Speaker 1: another weaponization committee. Hearing a Republican from Wyoming, Harriet whatever

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Speaker 1: her name is, talking about how Christopher Ray was trying

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Speaker 1: to frame conservatives. I mean, there were just so many

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Speaker 1: yikes moments in this GOP Congress. I mean, do you

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Speaker 1: think that it's smart for Democrats? Should Democrats be running

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Speaker 1: on the fact that Republicans in Congress have lost their minds?

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Speaker 2: Harriet Hagerman, that's who I mean.

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Speaker 3: I think yes, But that's peripheral. I mean, Democrats have

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Speaker 3: to run on decency and including everybody, and most Americans,

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Speaker 3: believe it or not, across the spectrum, think that everybody

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Speaker 3: ought to be treated fairly. Most people that do not

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Speaker 3: agree with the Supreme Court, and I mean that's why

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Speaker 3: the numbers are so awful. And people think that the

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Speaker 3: Supreme Court is just a political body, which it is,

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Speaker 3: but they think so because the Court doesn't understand fairness,

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Speaker 3: because they don't care about fairness. So most Americans who

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Speaker 3: do care about fairness, and this is people in both parties,

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Speaker 3: although it's obviously skewed towards center left, do think that

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Speaker 3: the decision about saying that the women in Colorado didn't

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Speaker 3: have to help a gay couple if they wanted to her,

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Speaker 3: you know, buy her product. They think that's wrong. Most

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Speaker 3: people do not think that women ought to be told

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Speaker 3: what to do by correct governors like Greg Abbott. They

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Speaker 3: think that's wrong. And politicians should stay out of the bedroom.

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Speaker 3: Most Americans think that by wide margins. So that's what

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Speaker 3: we should run on. And I think we can have

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Speaker 3: a lot of fun with the antics of some of

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Speaker 3: the Republicans. I mean, I thought that Biden put out

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Speaker 3: an ad about Marjorie Taylor Green saying some ridiculous thing. Sure,

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Speaker 3: that's their games because she's got so much publicity now

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Speaker 3: that he represents the Republican Party just as herschel Walker did,

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Speaker 3: and the elections in Georgia for the Senate, So there

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Speaker 3: are individual congress people we can go after if we

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Speaker 3: want to. But the truth is this is much broader

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Speaker 3: than that, and most people in America have no idea

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Speaker 3: who Jim door Jordan is and they wouldn't care. I

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Speaker 3: do think that the broad themes are really important and

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Speaker 3: people know we're right, So we have to articulate that.

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Speaker 1: Like I think about this Supreme Court and how when

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Speaker 1: that three ZHO three creative decision, that's the Colorado website

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Speaker 1: designer who hasn't designed any websites but might want to

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Speaker 1: discriminate against gay people. They made a whole showing in

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Speaker 1: that decision of expressive speech, that there's expressive speech and

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Speaker 1: then there's speech speech. And this isn't discrimination because it's

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Speaker 1: expressive speech. It's not true. And in fact we're seeing

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Speaker 1: now as a result of this, already this summer, we're

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Speaker 1: seeing discrimination based on this decision and different we're seeing

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Speaker 1: reporting of people who don't want to marry gay people

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Speaker 1: who are already saying, well three h three creative says

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Speaker 1: I don't have to. It seems like a lot of

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Speaker 1: this very maga Supreme Court opening the door to discrimination.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that's what they're doing? And if it is,

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Speaker 1: are they doing it on purpose or do you think

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Speaker 1: they just don't understand anything.

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Speaker 3: No, they're doing it on purpose. The Republican Party, and

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Speaker 3: this of course includes the court justices who were put

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Speaker 3: there by the Republican Party, and they are very wealthy

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Speaker 3: benefactors the Republican Party believes, and they pull for this.

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Speaker 3: The Republican governor in Virginia is a classic case. Reasonably

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Speaker 3: modern Republican got a lot of money.

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Speaker 4: But right poem kidded that people.

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Speaker 3: Would really be upset if they're on racial stuff going

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Speaker 3: on in the school. So what did they do. They

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Speaker 3: invented this critical race theory thing which doesn't exist in

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Speaker 3: any public school in America, and then went at that saying, oh,

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Speaker 3: they're teaching you to hate your kid. The stances is

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Speaker 3: on this too, but the guy in Virginia did it first.

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Speaker 3: Then they gin up that all your kids are going

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Speaker 3: to suddenly who were born as girls are going to

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Speaker 3: suddenly decide that they want to be men, and that's

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Speaker 3: pretty unsettling the people. You know, if one of your

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Speaker 3: kids decides that they might be transgender, that's a big

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Speaker 3: deal in the family, and most people don't want to

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Speaker 3: have to deal with that. And if you ask the

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Speaker 3: transgender person, they will tell you how hard it was

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Speaker 3: for the most part to get through all that. So

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Speaker 3: the Republicans know that, and in the abstract they can

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Speaker 3: use that to scare the hell out of people, and

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Speaker 3: that is what they are doing. And the Court is

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Speaker 3: absolutely compliant with that. Don't forget literally, you know, and

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Speaker 3: the Federal Society screened these people to make sure that

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Speaker 3: they're ideologically pure before they run them up to the

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Speaker 3: White House, and in the case of a Republican president,

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Speaker 3: simply rubbers Dampson, right.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we don't even know how much Trump even

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Speaker 1: knew about these people he put on the Supreme Court,

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Speaker 1: which is probably for the best, because otherwise he put

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Speaker 1: a bonk on there. I just I want to get

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Speaker 1: back to this. Congress has an opportunity here. They can

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Speaker 1: do more to hold this Supreme Court accountable.

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Speaker 2: I mean, and if it were reversed.

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Speaker 1: If it were a bunch of liberal judges, don't you

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Speaker 1: think Jim Jordan would be ben ghaziing this Supreme Court

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Speaker 1: to the hilt.

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Speaker 3: The Republican Party has no principles left. That's not to

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Speaker 3: say there are not some principal people in the Republican Party,

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Speaker 3: but they lack backbone. So they need a combination of

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Speaker 3: a principal transplant and a backbone transplant at the same time.

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Speaker 3: It's a very difficult procedure. I'm told yes, So that's

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Speaker 3: exactly what's going on. Exactly what's going on is you

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Speaker 3: just saw the vote yesterday in the Judicial Committee. Every

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Speaker 3: single Republican senator voted against any kind of accountability to

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Speaker 3: the Supreme Court. They wouldn't even allow them to have

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Speaker 3: an ethics program. That's insane. Now that we can run

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Speaker 3: on because most people don't like the Supreme Court and

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Speaker 3: they know they're politically oriented and they don't like that,

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Speaker 3: so that we can run on.

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Speaker 2: This is not a great map for Democrats.

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Speaker 1: You have been confronted before, was not a great map

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Speaker 1: for Democrats.

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Speaker 2: How do Democrats sort of survive this?

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Speaker 3: Actually think we can win this map? It's going to

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Speaker 3: be very hard and that set it's going to be

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Speaker 3: harder than in the House. And one of the most

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Speaker 3: interesting things is what's going on in Alabama over there.

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Speaker 3: It's just's right back to the nineteenth fifties where the

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Speaker 3: Alabama Legislature won't tobay the Supreme Court, even their own

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Speaker 3: Supreme Court which they own in that party, but they

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Speaker 3: will not do what the Supreme Court said, which is

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Speaker 3: to create a second Black district. And they're about to

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Speaker 3: submit a map. Is today the deadline that doesn't conform

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Speaker 3: with the Supreme Court ordering on the subject. That's unbelievable.

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Speaker 3: Here we are, We've wound the clock back eighty years.

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Speaker 2: I mean, what happens now with that?

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Speaker 3: Damn if I know. That's a compregational moment, and it's

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Speaker 3: going to happen again and again. It's going to happen

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Speaker 3: on the other side. So one of the things that

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Speaker 3: that's going to happen is somebody in Texas is going

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Speaker 3: to get in the fifth mythit that the fists drone

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Speaker 3: and to have an abortion, and they're going to get

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Speaker 3: it from Vermont or New York in the mail. And

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Speaker 3: you know, the fools have run Texas are going to

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Speaker 3: send out an extra will it even the Republicans did

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Speaker 3: have the nerve, I must state a sideline, Ken.

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Speaker 2: Paxton, Amazing, Yeah, right, amazing.

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Speaker 3: There is a small That's why I say, there is

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Speaker 3: some small amount of backbone and a few people, and

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Speaker 3: sometimes they all get together to add up to one backbone.

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Speaker 3: So there's going to be a confrontation. Somebody's going to

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Speaker 3: put out an extradition wark for a doctor who sent

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Speaker 3: the pills into Texas, and the governor of state is

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Speaker 3: going to obey the state law and not extradite. Then

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Speaker 3: what happens? And then the Supreme Court might order their

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Speaker 3: extradition and there will be no extradition forthcoming. Then what happens?

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Speaker 3: You know, we are rapidly approaching the place where the

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Speaker 3: conspetition is going to fall apart.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean what do you do when that? I mean,

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Speaker 1: I guess none of us now right, there's no precedent.

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Speaker 1: I mean we're seeing this already. If Red States refuse

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Speaker 1: to follow the law, then that's what's going to happen.

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Speaker 3: When Red States refused to follow the law, it's not

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Speaker 3: a problem because they own the Supreme Court, and the

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Speaker 3: Supreme Court just rubber stamps what they do. This Alabama

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Speaker 3: situation is going to be fascinating though, because the Supreme

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Speaker 3: Court spoke first and stead, you have to fix this,

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Speaker 3: and they're not doing it. So we're back sort of

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Speaker 3: where Eisenhower was Neural Warren's chief justice. Whether the Supreme

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Speaker 3: Court is going to do.

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Speaker 2: About this huh so insane.

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Speaker 3: So we're there and interesting, interestingly, it's not the Blue

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Speaker 3: states to provoke the potential crisis. It's a red state

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Speaker 3: by pushing the envelope. Because if you let people get

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Speaker 3: away with this kind of stuff, they'll go further and

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Speaker 3: further and further. And that's what the right winning the

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Speaker 3: publican party is done.

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Speaker 1: So incredible, you are optimistic. I have one last question

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Speaker 1: for you. You're a little bit optimistic about the Senate map.

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Speaker 2: Tell me why.

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Speaker 3: Well, I didn't say I was optimistic. What I said was,

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Speaker 3: I don't think we should give up on it. I

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Speaker 3: think Tester is likely going to likely going to win,

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Speaker 3: but I think Cruz could lose. That would give us

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Speaker 3: a seat. Managine, I'm not sure what he's going to do.

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Speaker 3: Say we lose that seat, But if Cruz loses and

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Speaker 3: Tester wins, and I think the others supposed up in

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Speaker 3: the air seats, they're not up in the air. I

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Speaker 3: think we're going to be fine in Nevada. I think

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Speaker 3: we find in some of the other states that the

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Speaker 3: inside of the Alway folks are talking about. So this

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Speaker 3: isn't going to happen without effort. There's a ton of

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Speaker 3: Democrats who are working very, very hard to make sure

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Speaker 3: that the Senate doesn't flip on the House side. I

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Speaker 3: think we have a shot taking back the House because

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Speaker 3: I think we'll fix the problem in New York if

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Speaker 3: the Assembly caused by not doing what the just to

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Speaker 3: what they should have, and I think that's probably going

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Speaker 3: to get fixed. I think we'll fix the problem in California.

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Speaker 3: And if Louisiana and Alabama actually do obey the court

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Speaker 3: that they hire to to do all these things, then

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Speaker 3: we'll pick up a couple of seats there, which, of

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Speaker 3: course is exactly why McCarthy and people like that are

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Speaker 3: telling the legislatures, calling into the Alabama legislature telling him

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Speaker 3: not to obey the Supreme Court. That ought to tell

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Speaker 3: you something about the decadence of the Republican Party.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the decadence of the Republican Party. Howard Dean, please

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Speaker 1: come back.

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Speaker 3: Thank you.

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Speaker 1: Mitch Landrew is a senior White House advisor and former

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Speaker 1: mayor of New Orleans.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Fast Politics, Mitch Landre.

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Speaker 4: It's great to be here. Thanks for having me.

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Speaker 2: I'm so excited to have you.

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Speaker 1: I was so thrilled that you were appointed to this

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Speaker 1: senior advisor and infrastructure coordinator, and I was thrilled when

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Speaker 1: by and appointed you. And you know for me, your

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Speaker 1: Confederate Monument speech will always make you an incredible, I mean,

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Speaker 1: a hero. I'm sorry to bring this up. I not

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Speaker 1: was a while ago. It was several seasons ago in

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Speaker 1: the reality television news industrial complex that we live in.

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Speaker 1: But you made a choice that almost no other elected

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Speaker 1: officials make.

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Speaker 4: Well. Thank you, first of all, thank you for that. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 4: the need to do that and the reason why we

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Speaker 4: had to do it continues to be with us today.

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Speaker 4: Raises this nation's Achilles heal. It always has been, and

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Speaker 4: we have not yet figured out how to adequately confront

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Speaker 4: it or deal with it. You have people today that

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Speaker 4: are trying to ignore the past. They think that ignorance

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Speaker 4: is bliss, and that's the best pathway to a more

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Speaker 4: perfect union, which is completely wrong at this particular point,

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Speaker 4: unlike you know, some other points where we thought that

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Speaker 4: we had that all this issue, it's clearly not. And

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Speaker 4: those monuments are just a symbol of people hanging on

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Speaker 4: to a false past and a false narrative of America

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Speaker 4: that's going to take us in the wrong direction. And

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Speaker 4: so there are many, many, many people who went before me,

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Speaker 4: and there are some really very courageous people out there

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Speaker 4: are still fighting the fight that's based on a really

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Speaker 4: pretty simple principle that we all come to the table

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Speaker 4: of democracy as equals, and that the reason why we

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Speaker 4: said a more perfect Union is to denote that you

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Speaker 4: can't have a reach perfection and you have to keep

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Speaker 4: But we have a long way to go. So I'm

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Speaker 4: hoping that and I'm sure that it's going to happen

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Speaker 4: by the way, that the next generation of leaders at

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Speaker 4: a stepping up, we're going to pick up that mantle

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Speaker 4: that has been laid down by so many people, not

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Speaker 4: the least of which was John Lewis, who unfortunately was

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Speaker 4: taken from us too soon, who reminds us that although

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Speaker 4: we've made great progress, we have a long way to go.

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Speaker 1: The speech you gave was about how these Confederate monuments,

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Speaker 1: which are not of the time at the Confederacy. They're

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Speaker 1: actually later as a I mean, you know, a lot

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Speaker 1: of them are not actually civil war monuments. They're set

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Speaker 1: up as a way to keep people down after reconstruction.

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Speaker 1: So I just am wondering, like, are you disappointed that

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Speaker 1: so many years later it has still been so difficult

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Speaker 1: to get rid of them and to move away from.

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Speaker 4: This Well, James Baldwin said once that it is because

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Speaker 4: I love the country so much that I reserve the

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Speaker 4: right and assume the responsibility of criticizing her in that vein.

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Speaker 4: You know what that speech was, if people have a

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Speaker 4: minute to read, it was an invitation to people that

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Speaker 4: haven't thought about it very much to open themselves up

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Speaker 4: to understanding our history and our fullness, and to really

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Speaker 4: understand how wonderful the country really could be if we

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Speaker 4: ever could go through and I say, go through the

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Speaker 4: issue of race, because you can't go around it, you

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Speaker 4: can't go over, you can't go under it. It is

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Speaker 4: a wound that has not healed in this nation. And

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Speaker 4: you know that was brought back to us as it

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Speaker 4: is way too frequently. The murder of George Floyd and

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Speaker 4: those that were murdered before him, all the way back

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Speaker 4: to Emmettil and before that, and then all the way

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Speaker 4: through our Trayvon Martin and George Floyd, and so many

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Speaker 4: examples that that would spend all day talking about them

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Speaker 4: to indicate that we have a long way to go

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Speaker 4: on lots of different issues. You see now in the

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Speaker 4: political sphere, you know there'd be actually being a retrenchment,

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Speaker 4: much like had occurred during the area of reconstruction when

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Speaker 4: the black codes came in, and then we made some

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Speaker 4: progress and there was a clap that there was a

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Speaker 4: civil rights and then there was a clap back. Then

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Speaker 4: there was President Obama's election, and now we're at a

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Speaker 4: clap back again. But the issue has been with us

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Speaker 4: since the beginning of time, and it is a constant struggle.

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Speaker 4: And I think that the forces of light have to

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Speaker 4: kind of stay at and keep the shoulder to the

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Speaker 4: wheel because, as I said, freedom's not free. You have

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Speaker 4: to earn it every day, and this is the rent

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Speaker 4: we pay for living in the greatest country in the world.

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Speaker 4: So there is always a level of disappointment that we

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Speaker 4: don't do better. There's also a sense of gratitude for

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Speaker 4: those people that have sacrificed so much to get us

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Speaker 4: this far. But we ought not be clear about what

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Speaker 4: direction we want to go into the country, which is forward,

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Speaker 4: not backward. And I think that if this is not

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Speaker 4: clear to people in America, it should be the diversity

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Speaker 4: as our greatest strength. It's not out weakness. It is

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Speaker 4: the one thing that separates us from every other country.

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Speaker 4: And the idea that we all come to the table

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Speaker 4: of democracy is equals understanding that we've been unperfect and

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Speaker 4: we haven't reached that, But that's what we ought to

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Speaker 4: be reaching for. We ought to be reaching for separation

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Speaker 4: and disunity and oppression and making sure people don't get

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Speaker 4: a right to vote, are making sure that people can't

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Speaker 4: live where they want to live or love who they

436
00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:04,320
Speaker 4: want to love. We ought to be heading in the

437
00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:07,000
Speaker 4: other direction. And I think that's what this president has

438
00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:08,920
Speaker 4: been talking a lot about when he says we want

439
00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:11,000
Speaker 4: to revive the soul of the nation, we want to

440
00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:13,080
Speaker 4: unite the country, we want to rebuild the backbone of

441
00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:15,320
Speaker 4: the country. I think in many ways, you know, President

442
00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:19,000
Speaker 4: Biden is actually walking the walk on all of that stuff.

443
00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:23,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, so let's talk about your job in the administration

444
00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:26,600
Speaker 1: during the Trump administration, every week was infrastructure a week,

445
00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:31,000
Speaker 1: but he never built any infrastructure. And now Biden is

446
00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:32,800
Speaker 1: actually building a lot of infrastructure.

447
00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:34,480
Speaker 2: So talk to me about what that looks like.

448
00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:37,000
Speaker 4: Well, as a general rule, the former president really did

449
00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:38,800
Speaker 4: everything anything he said he was going to do, but

450
00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:41,359
Speaker 4: she should have tried. So I'll leave that there. Because

451
00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:43,679
Speaker 4: I'm not involved in the politics and stuff, but I

452
00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:46,280
Speaker 4: am an American citizen, then I could make observations. I

453
00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:48,919
Speaker 4: will say this that as a general rule, you know,

454
00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:51,919
Speaker 4: the federal government over time says we're going to do something,

455
00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:53,920
Speaker 4: and they pass a bill or they don't pass a bill,

456
00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:55,760
Speaker 4: and then at some point in time they leave it

457
00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:57,800
Speaker 4: up to the states and the cities, and you know,

458
00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:01,000
Speaker 4: to see what might happen. And sometimes passing a bill,

459
00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:04,240
Speaker 4: as hard as it is, is the end of the route. Well,

460
00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:07,200
Speaker 4: in this instance of infrastructure, of rebuilding our country, which

461
00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:09,000
Speaker 4: has a lot to do with whether or not people

462
00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:11,320
Speaker 4: who have been left out actually have something physically to

463
00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:14,359
Speaker 4: stand on, can build generation and wealth out of it,

464
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:17,720
Speaker 4: actually can get a good job that can bring neighborhoods together.

465
00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:20,280
Speaker 4: It's critically important and for the last fifty years in

466
00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:24,359
Speaker 4: this country, all the presidents talked about infrastructure week and

467
00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:26,280
Speaker 4: then they would have able to deliver. They won't able

468
00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:30,000
Speaker 4: to pass a bill this president when he ran for office.

469
00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:32,800
Speaker 4: Remember now, I mean this is a proven fact that

470
00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:35,800
Speaker 4: now when Joe Biden took off, there was an active

471
00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:39,280
Speaker 4: insurrection under away, and then there was the worst public

472
00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:42,159
Speaker 4: health crisis that was seen in our lifetimes plus some.

473
00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:45,480
Speaker 4: And yet he put a stellar cabinet together, which is right,

474
00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:47,560
Speaker 4: by the way, a majority female first time in the

475
00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:51,159
Speaker 4: history of the country, all of whom are better than

476
00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:53,280
Speaker 4: the next. They're all competent people that are working really,

477
00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:57,520
Speaker 4: really hard. And he then passed for the most significant

478
00:23:57,560 --> 00:24:00,720
Speaker 4: pieces of legislation that was seen in the land fifty years,

479
00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:03,280
Speaker 4: one of which it is the Infrastructure Bill, which is

480
00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:06,520
Speaker 4: one point two trillion dollars to rebuild the roads, the bridges,

481
00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:09,760
Speaker 4: the airports, up ports, waterways, to make sure we have

482
00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:12,840
Speaker 4: high speed internet. Amazingly, not everybody in the nation has it.

483
00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:15,200
Speaker 4: Can you imagine going through COVID again and having access

484
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:18,760
Speaker 4: to high speed internet, how alienated and left out you are,

485
00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:20,800
Speaker 4: how far behind you would be, Whether you're a kid

486
00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:22,959
Speaker 4: who's trying to learn or a small business owner. You're

487
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:26,919
Speaker 4: a farmer who's trying to do precision agriculture, or a

488
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:29,080
Speaker 4: fireman trying to get someplace where you don't know where

489
00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:31,800
Speaker 4: they are. I mean, that's really kind of crazy that

490
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:34,040
Speaker 4: most people in America don't have it. And then making

491
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:36,159
Speaker 4: sure that everybody's got clean air and safe water. Now

492
00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:38,240
Speaker 4: many of us take this for granted, but if you

493
00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:40,359
Speaker 4: live in the Black Belt, are you living the delta?

494
00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:42,120
Speaker 4: Are you live in some parts of this country. They're

495
00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:44,960
Speaker 4: folks that don't have indoor plumbing in this country. And

496
00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:47,359
Speaker 4: then many of our kids that are sucking dirty water

497
00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:50,040
Speaker 4: out of lead pipes that are given a brain damage,

498
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:52,720
Speaker 4: so we're changing that too. And then finally, as you know,

499
00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:56,359
Speaker 4: because of the existential crisis of climate we have to

500
00:24:56,400 --> 00:25:00,280
Speaker 4: move into a clean energy economy. And they're substantial outs

501
00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:02,879
Speaker 4: of money that are being spent in partnership with the

502
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:06,159
Speaker 4: private sector to basically rebuild the entire country. Now, the

503
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:08,959
Speaker 4: President not only passed these bills and found the political

504
00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:11,439
Speaker 4: muscle to make that happen, but then he said this

505
00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:14,159
Speaker 4: smart thing, and this is what really separates him from

506
00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:16,840
Speaker 4: past presidents. He said, well that's not enough. Now we've

507
00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:19,119
Speaker 4: got to get it done. Now we've got to implement it,

508
00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:21,520
Speaker 4: and usually that's where the federal government stopped. And so

509
00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:23,399
Speaker 4: he asked me to come up with kind of a

510
00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:26,439
Speaker 4: lens of being a mayor and said, how'd you rebuild

511
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:28,320
Speaker 4: the city of New Orleans? What did that look like?

512
00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:30,840
Speaker 4: How did it really work? Because he's got it right already,

513
00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:33,600
Speaker 4: he's a local government guy. It works when the federal government,

514
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:36,440
Speaker 4: the state government, and the local governments all know each other,

515
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:39,680
Speaker 4: are communicating with each other, are coordinating with each other,

516
00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:43,440
Speaker 4: and are working across and all the way up and down,

517
00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:46,639
Speaker 4: so that, for example, all the cabinet secretaries are coordinating

518
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:49,160
Speaker 4: their efforts so that when a mayor or a congressman

519
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:50,840
Speaker 4: or a community leader comes up here, they don't have

520
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:52,600
Speaker 4: to talk to twenty two cabinet metters. They can just

521
00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:54,960
Speaker 4: talk to one group of people. And then I've talked

522
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:57,000
Speaker 4: to all the governmors on behalf of the president and

523
00:25:57,040 --> 00:25:59,840
Speaker 4: asked them to appoint an infrastructure coordinator. The job it

524
00:25:59,880 --> 00:26:02,560
Speaker 4: is to coordinate the state. And then I've talked to

525
00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:04,399
Speaker 4: sixteen hundred mayors and then we put them all in

526
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:06,320
Speaker 4: a room together and say, okay, look, you're the team

527
00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:08,520
Speaker 4: that's got to get this stuff to the ground. So

528
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:11,080
Speaker 4: my team is kind of doing the three things. We're

529
00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:12,840
Speaker 4: building the team, and that's what I just talked to

530
00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:15,119
Speaker 4: you about today. Now that was the government side, but

531
00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:16,840
Speaker 4: you got to get the faith based community, the not

532
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:19,840
Speaker 4: for profits. Everybody's got to be in the same room.

533
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:23,200
Speaker 4: Communities have to set priorities, and so that's the first thing,

534
00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:25,320
Speaker 4: build the team. The second thing that we're doing is

535
00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:26,960
Speaker 4: we got to get the money out the door, because

536
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:28,359
Speaker 4: if you have a team and you got no money

537
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:30,720
Speaker 4: or you got no equipment, you can't get anything done.

538
00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:33,159
Speaker 4: We've pushed two hundred and twenty billion dollars out of

539
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:36,280
Speaker 4: the door in eighteen months. We have thirty five thousand

540
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:39,439
Speaker 4: projects that are in some level of formation in forty

541
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:43,119
Speaker 4: five hundred communities in all fifty states, in the territories,

542
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:45,399
Speaker 4: and in the communities. And then finally, we have to

543
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:49,639
Speaker 4: tell the story, which we do because we want to

544
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:52,000
Speaker 4: tell them from the perspective of the people who are

545
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:54,040
Speaker 4: being impacted, because that's who the president'cyes.

546
00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:55,320
Speaker 2: That makes a lot of sense.

547
00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:59,280
Speaker 1: So you sort of taking your mayoral wisdom well, and

548
00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:02,240
Speaker 1: there as a reason for this because oftentimes, and I

549
00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:05,840
Speaker 1: mean this just observationally, if you're a legislator.

550
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:07,920
Speaker 4: You're a congressman, you're a senator, you're a state legislator.

551
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:11,439
Speaker 4: You generally are advocating for something to happen. You're not

552
00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:14,320
Speaker 4: responsible for actually getting it done. That's what happened on

553
00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:17,600
Speaker 4: the executive branch side. But there has been a disconnect

554
00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:20,600
Speaker 4: on how you execute big, big, big things in this

555
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:22,639
Speaker 4: country over the last fifty years. So you actually have

556
00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:25,679
Speaker 4: to go build and completely rebuild what I call the mousetrap,

557
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:29,040
Speaker 4: the execution side of what we're doing, which requires an

558
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:33,680
Speaker 4: intense amount of planning, vision, setting priorities, and then actually

559
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:35,639
Speaker 4: getting it done. And when I mean getting it done,

560
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:38,760
Speaker 4: I mean actually digging dirt and building the bridge, where

561
00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:41,600
Speaker 4: you're going to do it, who's going to dig the dirt,

562
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:43,760
Speaker 4: where you're going to get the materials from, where the

563
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:45,879
Speaker 4: employee is going to come from, Which one of the

564
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:48,119
Speaker 4: projects are going to get funded. All of those things

565
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:51,879
Speaker 4: require an intense amount of communication and collaboration, and of

566
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:53,680
Speaker 4: course we haven't done something this big in the last

567
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:56,720
Speaker 4: fifty sixty years and arguably since the New Deal. So

568
00:27:57,200 --> 00:27:59,320
Speaker 4: we're in the process again of doing three things at

569
00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:01,600
Speaker 4: once that ing up the team. We're getting the money

570
00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:04,240
Speaker 4: out the door, and then we're telling the story about

571
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:06,840
Speaker 4: how it's impacting real people in real time. And I

572
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:10,679
Speaker 4: can give you bucketloads of examples of the people that

573
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:14,080
Speaker 4: we're touching, because that's what really matters. So like if

574
00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:17,160
Speaker 4: I'm traveling around the country and I'm in meta Georgia

575
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:20,359
Speaker 4: and we're talking about house speed Internet, I'm talking to

576
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:22,520
Speaker 4: the men and women that live in that quasi rural

577
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:25,679
Speaker 4: community about how it's going to help the principal in

578
00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:28,399
Speaker 4: that school get those kids of better education. I'm talking

579
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:32,359
Speaker 4: to the emergency medical providers about how quickly it's going

580
00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:34,360
Speaker 4: to help help them get to folks that they really

581
00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:37,000
Speaker 4: need to do, telling medicine for a grandma or grandpa

582
00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:38,800
Speaker 4: that might be living out in the rural community that

583
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:41,880
Speaker 4: doesn't have access to a community hospital because it closed,

584
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:46,080
Speaker 4: maybe because of a state didn't accept medicating. We're talking about,

585
00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:48,840
Speaker 4: you know, the guy that's working the lock and damn,

586
00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:51,840
Speaker 4: the Montgomery lock and dam in Pennsylvania because we're trying

587
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:55,479
Speaker 4: to make sure that barges can move much more quickly

588
00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:58,040
Speaker 4: and get more goods from ships to shells more quickly.

589
00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:00,320
Speaker 4: Who is that guy? Well, how long is he been

590
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:03,000
Speaker 4: working there. How much generation of wealth is he able

591
00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:05,160
Speaker 4: to build up? Is he the third generation? You know,

592
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:08,040
Speaker 4: folks are if I'm in the Imperial Valley in California

593
00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:11,280
Speaker 4: and we're talking about the water crisis out there, meeting

594
00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:13,040
Speaker 4: a young girl named lose Is with a mom and

595
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:15,480
Speaker 4: daddy living in a mobile park, who is working the

596
00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:18,360
Speaker 4: fields but is not making enough money, and by the way,

597
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:21,480
Speaker 4: is drinking water that has arsenic in it. That's to

598
00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:24,480
Speaker 4: the president. See. So, yeah, it's an infrastructure project, but

599
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:27,440
Speaker 4: the whole point is to lift up individuals and to

600
00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:30,560
Speaker 4: give them opportunities they never had. And so you have

601
00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:32,440
Speaker 4: if you want to do it fast, but you want

602
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:34,600
Speaker 4: to do it right. You don't want to miss anybody,

603
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:36,240
Speaker 4: and you want to make sure that you make it

604
00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:38,680
Speaker 4: part of the pro growth economy, because, as you may recall,

605
00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:41,200
Speaker 4: not too long ago, people said, oh, this is not

606
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:45,239
Speaker 4: going to work. Y'all can't make it happen'll y'all are

607
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:47,800
Speaker 4: trying to do too much with this stuff, and so

608
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:50,200
Speaker 4: you can't do it fast, you know, And that hasn't

609
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:52,040
Speaker 4: turned out to be true. So I just like to

610
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:54,719
Speaker 4: tell people that Joe Biden is bringing the receipt right

611
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:57,560
Speaker 4: now and I know that have it. When he ran

612
00:29:57,600 --> 00:29:59,360
Speaker 4: for office, they said he never could get elected. When

613
00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 4: he got elected, they said it never get anything done.

614
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:03,000
Speaker 4: When he started to get everything done, he said that

615
00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:06,320
Speaker 4: he was too old. And now that the numbers are

616
00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:09,320
Speaker 4: coming up, roses, we're not in a recession. We don't

617
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:11,600
Speaker 4: think the economy looks like it's going into recession, although

618
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:14,200
Speaker 4: people have been, you know, saying the sky was falling

619
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:15,800
Speaker 4: for the last year and a half. The most noted

620
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:18,920
Speaker 4: economists in the country, All of a sudden, thirteen point

621
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:20,880
Speaker 4: two million jobs. Hello, how many?

622
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:21,400
Speaker 2: Is that?

623
00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:23,560
Speaker 4: More than in two years that any president has done

624
00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:26,400
Speaker 4: in four years, the lowest unemployment rate. Oh wait, you

625
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:28,560
Speaker 4: can't fix the economy if you don't lay people off

626
00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:30,640
Speaker 4: and reduce wages. A president said, not only no, but

627
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:33,880
Speaker 4: hell no. And now what's happening economy strong, wages are

628
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:38,160
Speaker 4: going up, they're gone up. The number of jobs available

629
00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:40,479
Speaker 4: has gone up, not down. And so all of a sudden,

630
00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:43,240
Speaker 4: all of a sudden, there's this popular wisdom that was

631
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:46,760
Speaker 4: supposed to apply just doesn't apply. It turns out that

632
00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:48,680
Speaker 4: you got the right man for the right job at

633
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:50,880
Speaker 4: the right time in history doing the things that the

634
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:54,320
Speaker 4: country has needed for the last fifty years. Everything's coming

635
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:56,880
Speaker 4: up roses in many, many ways, although we still have

636
00:30:56,920 --> 00:30:59,840
Speaker 4: some tremendous challenges that we're not finished. But it looks

637
00:30:59,880 --> 00:31:02,840
Speaker 4: like we're doing pretty well on every objective metric that

638
00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:05,320
Speaker 4: you would that you would judge presidents on over time

639
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:07,360
Speaker 4: you would like to is a stock market going up

640
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:10,880
Speaker 4: or it's going down. It's going up, okay. So so

641
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:13,880
Speaker 4: I kind of, you know, I'm a kind of political

642
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:17,200
Speaker 4: you know, had you know, kind of chuckles a little bit,

643
00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:19,800
Speaker 4: and I really kind of start to chuckle the most.

644
00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:21,680
Speaker 4: And the President's got a good sense of humor and

645
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:24,880
Speaker 4: big show, so they'll appreciate this that. And he's told

646
00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:26,960
Speaker 4: me and everybody else in this administration, don't listen to

647
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:29,720
Speaker 4: all the noise. Go everywhere in the country, Red states,

648
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:32,280
Speaker 4: Blue states. People voted for it, they didn't vote for it.

649
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:35,440
Speaker 4: I represent everybody in the country. Make sure everybody gets it.

650
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:39,360
Speaker 4: But he does chuckle a little bit at at us

651
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:43,800
Speaker 4: doing groundbreakings in states and congressional districts where congressman has

652
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:46,080
Speaker 4: said it has voted against this bill. They said it

653
00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:48,480
Speaker 4: was socialists, they said it was communists, They said it

654
00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:51,040
Speaker 4: was going to destroy the country, and they show up

655
00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:55,400
Speaker 4: for the groundbreakings and the ribbon cuttings. Then they come

656
00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:58,880
Speaker 4: back to Washington and try and try, and then they vote.

657
00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:00,960
Speaker 4: They voted against the bill. Then they come back and

658
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:02,680
Speaker 4: try to cut the budget. Then they try to claim

659
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:04,760
Speaker 4: credit for it. And I think the American people are

660
00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:06,440
Speaker 4: going to see through that because at the end of

661
00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:08,600
Speaker 4: the day, the president is like, look, I'm here just

662
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:10,640
Speaker 4: to make the country aboutter place, and I'm delivering. I

663
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:12,920
Speaker 4: have the receipts and uh, and we're going to keep

664
00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:14,280
Speaker 4: working at it because you have a long way to

665
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:15,360
Speaker 4: go and we have a lot more to do.

666
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:18,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, that makes sense. I want to ask you tell

667
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:20,560
Speaker 1: me about the trains. I feel like I can't get

668
00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:23,760
Speaker 1: a straight answer on the trains. What's the question, Like,

669
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:27,520
Speaker 1: what's happening with the trains. I'm very interested in the trains.

670
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:30,400
Speaker 1: I love the trains.

671
00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:35,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, you and my boss. If you know, the leader

672
00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:37,080
Speaker 4: of the free world has a lot on his mind,

673
00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:39,240
Speaker 4: and he's got a lot going on every day all day.

674
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:41,280
Speaker 4: But if you say the word trains in front of him,

675
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:43,360
Speaker 4: he's likely to stop and have a very long conversation

676
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:47,640
Speaker 4: with you. Okay too, he will remind you of a

677
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:49,479
Speaker 4: couple of things. The first thing he will tell you

678
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:51,600
Speaker 4: is that he's written on Amtrak more than anybody in

679
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:53,360
Speaker 4: the history of the world since the beginning of time.

680
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:56,479
Speaker 4: You should It seems a little bit of exaggeration, but

681
00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:58,760
Speaker 4: not so much because the people of America may not

682
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:02,000
Speaker 4: know this. But he he was a local government elected official,

683
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:05,160
Speaker 4: and when he ran for office when he was twenty nine,

684
00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:10,720
Speaker 4: having been on the Delaware on the Council and before

685
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:14,800
Speaker 4: when he became a senator because of his tragic family story,

686
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:17,480
Speaker 4: as a good dead would he commuted every day back

687
00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:20,560
Speaker 4: and forth to Washington on Amtrak, and so he has

688
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:23,640
Speaker 4: clocked a lot of miles. And he actually, because of

689
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:26,560
Speaker 4: that physical experience that he had every day, actually pretty

690
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:29,240
Speaker 4: much knows every inch of what they call the Northeast Corridor.

691
00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:31,240
Speaker 4: So if you live in the South like me, you

692
00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:32,760
Speaker 4: might not know what that is, or you live in

693
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:34,560
Speaker 4: the West you know, you might not know, but the

694
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:37,800
Speaker 4: entire corridor from Boston all the way down to Washington,

695
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:40,720
Speaker 4: d C. And he wants to make sure that we

696
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:43,360
Speaker 4: get fixed at Amtrak's very important. Also, he wants to

697
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:45,920
Speaker 4: make sure that we're able to lay down high speed

698
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:48,480
Speaker 4: rail somewhere in this country in a reasonably short period

699
00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:50,760
Speaker 4: of time, and then see if we can connect people

700
00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:53,360
Speaker 4: in other areas in the country to the extent that

701
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:56,280
Speaker 4: it works. So there's sixty six billion dollars in this

702
00:33:56,360 --> 00:34:01,480
Speaker 4: bill that is designed to improve rail serve was across America,

703
00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:04,720
Speaker 4: and we're working on that right now. Amtrak, of course,

704
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:07,800
Speaker 4: is the big player in that there's a substantial amount

705
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:10,800
Speaker 4: of money to actually help fix the tracks, to actually

706
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:13,840
Speaker 4: help fix the spaces and the places where the trains

707
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:17,080
Speaker 4: stop along not only the Northeast Corridor but across the country.

708
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:19,920
Speaker 4: There is substantial amount of money to make sure that

709
00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:23,560
Speaker 4: folks with disabilities have access. There's a substantial amount of

710
00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:27,960
Speaker 4: money to actually rebuild the cars for the new clean

711
00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:30,680
Speaker 4: energy future, so that to make sure that those cars

712
00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:34,799
Speaker 4: are manufactured with parts that are made in America. We

713
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:37,439
Speaker 4: have a number of different companies that have planted new

714
00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:40,920
Speaker 4: plants in states that are producing thousands of jobs, that

715
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:43,799
Speaker 4: are actually doing this very thing, and we're well in

716
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:46,440
Speaker 4: the process and well along the way on that. You

717
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:51,080
Speaker 4: may have noticed that last week Satadashumer was able to

718
00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:54,840
Speaker 4: highlight a fairly significant announcement in what they call the

719
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:58,520
Speaker 4: Hudson Tunnel are the gateway projects. These are the rail

720
00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:01,520
Speaker 4: lines in and out of New York and New Jersey,

721
00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:03,920
Speaker 4: starting on the Northeast Corridor, which of course is one

722
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:06,920
Speaker 4: of the most heavily traveled harriets. And so those investments,

723
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:09,439
Speaker 4: in partnership with the States, are going to improve rail

724
00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:12,680
Speaker 4: service in America faily significantly. But that's a big That

725
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:14,680
Speaker 4: is a big, big, big project. It's going to cost

726
00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:15,839
Speaker 4: a lot of money, it's going to take a lot

727
00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:18,719
Speaker 4: of time, but eventually, you know, we want to make

728
00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:21,440
Speaker 4: sure we go faster, go safer, get as many people

729
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:23,440
Speaker 4: off out of their cars as we can. And if

730
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:25,440
Speaker 4: the President says, if you can, you know, get them

731
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:27,080
Speaker 4: there faster and cheap. But that's what they're going to do,

732
00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:28,640
Speaker 4: and that's what that's what we're trying to do.

733
00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:31,359
Speaker 2: Thank you so much. I hope you will come back.

734
00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:32,680
Speaker 4: Oh absolutely come back.

735
00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:34,960
Speaker 2: We'd love to hi.

736
00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:39,560
Speaker 1: It's Molly and I am wildly excited that for the

737
00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:45,520
Speaker 1: first time, Fast Politics, the show you're listening to right now.

738
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:48,000
Speaker 2: Is going to have merch for sale over at.

739
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:52,680
Speaker 1: Shop dot fastpoliticspod dot com.

740
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:56,080
Speaker 2: You can now buy shirts.

741
00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:59,720
Speaker 1: Hats, hoodies, and toe bags with our incredible design.

742
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:03,200
Speaker 2: We've heard your cries to spread the word.

743
00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:08,160
Speaker 1: About our podcast and get a topag with my adorable

744
00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:12,520
Speaker 1: Leo the Rescue Puppy on it. And now you can

745
00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:20,360
Speaker 1: grab this merchandise only at shop dot fastpoliticspod dot com.

746
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:23,240
Speaker 2: Thanks for your support.

747
00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:28,520
Speaker 5: Noah Rosenblum is an assistant professor at NYUBAW.

748
00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:32,680
Speaker 1: Welcome to Fast Politics, Noah Rosenbom.

749
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:33,760
Speaker 4: Hi, so glad to be here.

750
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:35,120
Speaker 2: We're delighted to have you.

751
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:38,440
Speaker 1: So just tell us a little bit about what your

752
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:40,600
Speaker 1: field of study is.

753
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:46,200
Speaker 4: I'm a legal historian of constitutional administrative law. I mostly

754
00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:50,320
Speaker 4: focus on the history of the administrative state. The administrative state,

755
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:53,920
Speaker 4: I tell my students it's basically what people think government is.

756
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:57,000
Speaker 4: So if you think about every interaction you have ever

757
00:36:57,120 --> 00:36:59,680
Speaker 4: had with someone you think of as the government, whether

758
00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:04,400
Speaker 4: it's a tax collector or a mortician or the person

759
00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:09,680
Speaker 4: who validates your marriage license, they're all different parts of

760
00:37:09,719 --> 00:37:12,120
Speaker 4: the administrative state. So I work on the legal history

761
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:12,360
Speaker 4: of that.

762
00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:17,360
Speaker 1: It's pretty interesting, So let's talk about I think the

763
00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:21,200
Speaker 1: first thing we need to talk about is this bonkers

764
00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:24,239
Speaker 1: bombshell piece that was in the New York Times a

765
00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:27,560
Speaker 1: few days ago, which had the title, which I think

766
00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:32,080
Speaker 1: is like a little bit misleading considering how bonkers.

767
00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:33,480
Speaker 2: The stuff in the article was.

768
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:36,880
Speaker 1: But it was Trump and allies forged plans to increase

769
00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:40,960
Speaker 1: presidential power in twenty twenty five. Talk to me about

770
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:43,640
Speaker 1: what you're thinking there was and what you saw.

771
00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:46,799
Speaker 4: I'm so glad to hear you call it bonkers and

772
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:52,000
Speaker 4: understated for how extreme the proposals are. That was my

773
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:55,279
Speaker 4: reaction too. I think the first thing that can be

774
00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:59,000
Speaker 4: surprising if you're not a historian is that even though

775
00:37:59,080 --> 00:38:01,239
Speaker 4: Trump is the one who seems to be pushing this,

776
00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:03,920
Speaker 4: and the version that Trump is pushing is the most

777
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:07,880
Speaker 4: extreme version of it I've come across. Actually, people have

778
00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:12,560
Speaker 4: been making arguments like this already for nearly fifty years,

779
00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:18,080
Speaker 4: and during the George W. Bush administration, arguments kind of

780
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:20,319
Speaker 4: like this, and when Nybele were made at that time,

781
00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:22,040
Speaker 4: they really freaked a lot of people out too.

782
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:25,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that there are a couple of scary

783
00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:27,319
Speaker 1: things in this article. But the thing we were talking

784
00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:31,799
Speaker 1: about last night, which I think is perhaps the scariest,

785
00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:39,080
Speaker 1: is that clearly this push to widen presidential powers is

786
00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:46,640
Speaker 1: not coming from Don Junior or her Jared Kushner or

787
00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:52,440
Speaker 1: Donald Trump himself, or even Trump's favorite three piece suited lawyer,

788
00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:59,600
Speaker 1: Borisch Epstein. This is really coming from a third party heritage.

789
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:02,680
Speaker 4: Like Tank, right, I would think about this as a

790
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:06,360
Speaker 4: deep historical story. So there's a book love by a

791
00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:11,360
Speaker 4: historian at Columbia named Kimberly Phillips Fine called Invisible Hands,

792
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:14,719
Speaker 4: The Businessman's Crusade against the New Deal. And part of

793
00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:18,239
Speaker 4: what Kim shows in this book is that even all

794
00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:21,600
Speaker 4: the way back to the nineteen thirties and the first

795
00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:29,360
Speaker 4: significant institutionalized effort to make the United States more socioeconomically democratic,

796
00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:34,240
Speaker 4: you've got resistance coming from rich business interests. The villain

797
00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:37,399
Speaker 4: is the dupap family, and for what it's worth, there's

798
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:41,799
Speaker 4: still the villain now. And these rich families who had

799
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:43,719
Speaker 4: a lot to lose from the creation of a more

800
00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:47,839
Speaker 4: economically egalitarian society. Initially they tried to fight the New

801
00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:50,440
Speaker 4: Deal kind of on its own terms, but that was

802
00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:53,719
Speaker 4: just incredibly unpopular their position to try to fight the

803
00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:55,239
Speaker 4: New Deal on its own terms, because after all, the

804
00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:59,480
Speaker 4: New Deal was about empowering the vast majority of Americans,

805
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:03,000
Speaker 4: a special working Americans, and if you're a super rich

806
00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:05,840
Speaker 4: polutic prat and your whole political position is that you

807
00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:08,120
Speaker 4: don't want to do policies that benefit the vast majority

808
00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:09,880
Speaker 4: of the Americans. You're just going to be on the

809
00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:12,840
Speaker 4: losing side of those fights. So over the course of

810
00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:15,520
Speaker 4: the next years, they started to change the way they

811
00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:18,840
Speaker 4: made their arguments and to come up with new ways

812
00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:22,880
Speaker 4: of trying to attack what were basically social programs that

813
00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:26,840
Speaker 4: they didn't like. And one version of that attack is

814
00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:30,120
Speaker 4: this attack on the administrative state. And so you'll remember,

815
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:34,239
Speaker 4: back when Trump was president, Steve Bannon famously gave some

816
00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:36,480
Speaker 4: interview in which he talked about how his goal was

817
00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:39,920
Speaker 4: to deconstruct the administrative state. And for somebody like me,

818
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:42,239
Speaker 4: that's set off alarm bells, because a lot of what

819
00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:46,920
Speaker 4: the administrative state does is implement those New Deal era programs.

820
00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:50,359
Speaker 4: Also Lyndon Johnson Eric great society programs, And in saying

821
00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:52,759
Speaker 4: you want to deconstruct them, what you're really saying is

822
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:57,080
Speaker 4: that you want to eliminate those programs. So the question

823
00:40:57,160 --> 00:40:59,360
Speaker 4: becomes away, So how are you going to go about

824
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:03,160
Speaker 4: deconstructing them? And I'm sorry for being such an academic,

825
00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:04,799
Speaker 4: but I just have to name check two of my

826
00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:09,279
Speaker 4: incredible co authors Levman and and Ashamed, who both teach

827
00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:11,879
Speaker 4: at Columbia Law School, and with the two of them,

828
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:14,640
Speaker 4: I've been doing some work, and part of what we

829
00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:17,799
Speaker 4: have been trying to expose is the way in which

830
00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:23,160
Speaker 4: arguments for presidential control of the administrative state have been

831
00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:27,960
Speaker 4: a powerful tool for doing what Steve Bannon wanted to do,

832
00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:31,520
Speaker 4: for trying to undercut the administrative state or deconstruct the

833
00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:34,920
Speaker 4: administrative state. So I don't think it's an accident at all.

834
00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:37,160
Speaker 4: You know you were saying a second ago, Molly, these

835
00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:40,360
Speaker 4: kinds of arguments, they're not coming from Trump or even

836
00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:45,440
Speaker 4: from World. They're coming from the institutionalized conservative legal movement,

837
00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:50,480
Speaker 4: and Trump is their useful mouthpiece. And that's exactly right. Right,

838
00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:54,120
Speaker 4: arguments for strong presidential power, particularly coming from the right,

839
00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:58,040
Speaker 4: have been used to try to attack the administrative state,

840
00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:01,120
Speaker 4: which delivers a lot of things that the vast majority

841
00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:04,840
Speaker 4: of the Americans want and like, and the theory to

842
00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:08,440
Speaker 4: use it to cut through the administrative state that is

843
00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:12,239
Speaker 4: a tool of the anti New Deal reactionary right.

844
00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:12,879
Speaker 2: Right.

845
00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:15,319
Speaker 1: I would also add that there are like a lot

846
00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:18,719
Speaker 1: of people in the administrative state who think of themselves

847
00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:22,440
Speaker 1: as completely nonpartisan, whether or not they are, but they

848
00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:25,680
Speaker 1: consider themselves to be above politics. I mean, I would

849
00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:29,480
Speaker 1: think at least this kind of person existed before Trump

850
00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:32,600
Speaker 1: ran for office. And so I mean there's a lot

851
00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:35,000
Speaker 1: of things the government does that have no you know,

852
00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:39,880
Speaker 1: driver's license from driver's licenses right to fixing roads that

853
00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:42,160
Speaker 1: have no partisan BND whatsoever.

854
00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:46,200
Speaker 4: Oh no, absolutely, it's not just consider there's even academic evidents.

855
00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:50,440
Speaker 4: There's empirical evidence that government bureaucrats are actually way less

856
00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:53,440
Speaker 4: partisan than people think they are, and they tend to

857
00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:56,319
Speaker 4: have a moderating effect and be more centrist. So even

858
00:42:56,360 --> 00:43:00,560
Speaker 4: the most extremely liberal government bureaucrat really primarily devoted to

859
00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:01,360
Speaker 4: public service.

860
00:43:01,719 --> 00:43:04,640
Speaker 2: Right, So let's talk about Article two.

861
00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:07,720
Speaker 1: First of all, when Isaac Chattner from The New Yorker

862
00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:10,480
Speaker 1: wanted to interview you, did you get scared?

863
00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:14,960
Speaker 4: You know, the scariest moment of my life is opening

864
00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:18,880
Speaker 4: my seeing an email from Isaac Choetner saying I'd like

865
00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:19,480
Speaker 4: to talk to you.

866
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:21,359
Speaker 2: But I think, you know, he.

867
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:24,000
Speaker 1: Had a good point, which is he wanted to ask

868
00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:27,239
Speaker 1: you about this larger administrative state. And one of the

869
00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:29,960
Speaker 1: things that you guys talked about was Article two. First

870
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:32,480
Speaker 1: of all, explain to us what Article two means. Second

871
00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:35,360
Speaker 1: of all, explain to us what Trump thinks Article two means.

872
00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:38,120
Speaker 1: And third of all, put this all into context for us.

873
00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:41,200
Speaker 4: Please, I'll do my best. What is Article two mean?

874
00:43:41,239 --> 00:43:43,200
Speaker 4: And that comes back to the point that you made

875
00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:46,080
Speaker 4: a minute ago about that Bonker's New York Times article.

876
00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:48,440
Speaker 4: So the New York Times article talked about how Donald

877
00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:52,040
Speaker 4: Trump wants to consolidate power over the government in his

878
00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:54,719
Speaker 4: own hands. And as the New York Times article explained,

879
00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:58,479
Speaker 4: the legal theory for doing that drew from Article two.

880
00:43:58,719 --> 00:44:01,160
Speaker 4: So what is Article two are? Article two is the

881
00:44:01,200 --> 00:44:04,919
Speaker 4: second article of the Constitution. It's the article in which

882
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:07,880
Speaker 4: most of what the president is able to do legally

883
00:44:08,040 --> 00:44:12,120
Speaker 4: under the Constitution is elaborated. So what is Article two do?

884
00:44:12,640 --> 00:44:17,160
Speaker 4: It gives us the basic constitutional framework for understanding presidential power.

885
00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:23,640
Speaker 4: What does Trump think Article two does? Yes, he told us, right,

886
00:44:23,719 --> 00:44:26,120
Speaker 4: he says, I have an Article two and it lets

887
00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:30,520
Speaker 4: me do whatever I want. And Isaac, I'll say it again, right.

888
00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:34,359
Speaker 4: I think Trump genuinely believes that the Constitution makes the

889
00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:37,920
Speaker 4: president into something kind of like a king. And in

890
00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:41,919
Speaker 4: Trump's defense, there are a lot of people who've made

891
00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:44,560
Speaker 4: arguments that are kind of like that. I don't know

892
00:44:44,600 --> 00:44:49,319
Speaker 4: anyone who's ever made the argument that Article two creates

893
00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:54,600
Speaker 4: a kingship. And indeed, even some of the most royalist

894
00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:59,920
Speaker 4: readings of presidentialism highlight that, in the words of Michael McConnell,

895
00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:02,880
Speaker 4: a conservative law professor at Stanford, right, the president who

896
00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:05,719
Speaker 4: would not be king, It's not a kingship. Even the

897
00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:09,120
Speaker 4: strongest versions of presidentialism would say no, no, Article two

898
00:45:09,160 --> 00:45:12,840
Speaker 4: did not create a kingship. However, people have elaborated all

899
00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:17,359
Speaker 4: kinds of arguments that under Article to the president should

900
00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:20,600
Speaker 4: be able to exercise a tremendous amount of power over

901
00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:23,680
Speaker 4: the federal government. You have to make those arguments in

902
00:45:23,719 --> 00:45:27,480
Speaker 4: a constitutional frame, because otherwise, if we were looking for

903
00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:29,960
Speaker 4: where the president's powers come from, we'd say, while, they

904
00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:35,000
Speaker 4: come from statutes. But statutes, of course, are drafted by Congress.

905
00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:38,880
Speaker 4: And shockingly, even though Congress is in the habit of

906
00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:41,880
Speaker 4: delegating lots of power to the president, Congress isn't in

907
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:44,040
Speaker 4: the habit of giving the president so much power that

908
00:45:44,080 --> 00:45:46,880
Speaker 4: the president can do whatever they want, to run the

909
00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:49,320
Speaker 4: country any way they want. So if you're going to

910
00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:52,200
Speaker 4: make arguments that the president has got this kind of

911
00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:56,279
Speaker 4: expansive article to power the Donald Trump. Right, I have

912
00:45:56,280 --> 00:45:58,160
Speaker 4: an article too, and it lets me do whatever I want.

913
00:45:58,360 --> 00:46:00,360
Speaker 4: What you're saying is that the president has the power

914
00:46:00,440 --> 00:46:04,560
Speaker 4: to cut through a whole bunch of other alleged restrictions

915
00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:06,560
Speaker 4: on his power, which means you've got to come up

916
00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:09,839
Speaker 4: with a constitutional theory that would let you cut through

917
00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:10,719
Speaker 4: those statutes.

918
00:46:11,239 --> 00:46:13,120
Speaker 2: Right, And that's what this.

919
00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:16,080
Speaker 4: Is exactly right. So when I read that New York

920
00:46:16,120 --> 00:46:18,719
Speaker 4: Times article, like I said, it reminded me of this

921
00:46:19,160 --> 00:46:25,400
Speaker 4: much longer crusade against aspects of the social democratic state.

922
00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:29,400
Speaker 4: It echoed a strong version of what sometimes called the

923
00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:33,120
Speaker 4: unitary executive theory. That was the way that it was

924
00:46:33,160 --> 00:46:35,759
Speaker 4: described a lot during the George W. Bush years. And

925
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:39,640
Speaker 4: it's this idea that because Article two says the executive

926
00:46:39,680 --> 00:46:42,759
Speaker 4: power shall vest in it's either a president of the

927
00:46:42,840 --> 00:46:44,840
Speaker 4: United States or the president of the United States, I

928
00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:46,959
Speaker 4: should really look that one up. But the key client

929
00:46:47,760 --> 00:46:51,160
Speaker 4: the executive power is vesting in a singular person. That

930
00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:54,160
Speaker 4: means that the singular person of the president should be

931
00:46:54,200 --> 00:46:58,840
Speaker 4: able to exercise all executive power. And what is executive power,

932
00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:02,800
Speaker 4: while it's not legislative power and it's not judicial power,

933
00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:05,280
Speaker 4: is the way the argument goes. Or in other words,

934
00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:08,799
Speaker 4: it's not what Congress does and it's not what judges do.

935
00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:11,360
Speaker 4: But if you stop and think about that for a second,

936
00:47:11,840 --> 00:47:14,480
Speaker 4: most of what the government does is not what Congress

937
00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:17,359
Speaker 4: does or what judges do. In fact, for most of us,

938
00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:19,520
Speaker 4: most of the interactions we've ever had with the federal

939
00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:21,960
Speaker 4: government are with parts of it that are not what

940
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:25,440
Speaker 4: Congress does or what judges do. So what the theory

941
00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:28,400
Speaker 4: really seems to be saying is that everything that the

942
00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:31,759
Speaker 4: government does that's not Congress or judges needs to be

943
00:47:32,160 --> 00:47:36,600
Speaker 4: under the control, maybe even the direction, of the President

944
00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:39,360
Speaker 4: of the United States. And that might not be a kingship,

945
00:47:39,400 --> 00:47:40,879
Speaker 4: but it starts to be pretty close to one.

946
00:47:41,080 --> 00:47:46,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's completely crazy. Why do you think that conservative

947
00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:49,080
Speaker 1: think tanks like Heritage want that?

948
00:47:49,080 --> 00:47:52,040
Speaker 4: That's actually a really deep question. The reason it's such

949
00:47:52,040 --> 00:47:55,839
Speaker 4: a deep question is because it's not obvious that if

950
00:47:55,880 --> 00:48:01,080
Speaker 4: you're interested in let's just say market ordering, and in

951
00:48:01,120 --> 00:48:06,040
Speaker 4: particular low government regulation market ordering, that the way to

952
00:48:06,120 --> 00:48:08,480
Speaker 4: do it would be to create a super strong president.

953
00:48:08,640 --> 00:48:11,200
Speaker 4: You might be happy with basis, I'm not one hundred

954
00:48:11,200 --> 00:48:13,600
Speaker 4: percent positive. That's part of why in this piece that

955
00:48:13,640 --> 00:48:16,560
Speaker 4: I mentioned with Ashahmed and livmannd we tried to look

956
00:48:16,560 --> 00:48:19,160
Speaker 4: into the history a little bit. What I can say

957
00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:24,160
Speaker 4: is that in the nineteen eighties conservatives were really interested

958
00:48:24,200 --> 00:48:29,520
Speaker 4: in strong presidential power as a reaction to one the

959
00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:35,880
Speaker 4: already existing social democratic state and to a liberal Congress.

960
00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:37,879
Speaker 4: So if you think about it, right, by the time

961
00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:41,360
Speaker 4: we get to the Ronald Reagan presidency, the Democrats have

962
00:48:41,520 --> 00:48:46,399
Speaker 4: had control of Congress for almost fifty years. Couple, there's

963
00:48:46,640 --> 00:48:48,239
Speaker 4: you know, Republicans are in charge of Congress for a

964
00:48:48,280 --> 00:48:48,640
Speaker 4: little bit.

965
00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:52,000
Speaker 1: But this was all because of Nixon. I mean, yeah,

966
00:48:52,200 --> 00:48:55,560
Speaker 1: Nixon gave it to liberals. I mean, you know, if

967
00:48:55,600 --> 00:48:59,360
Speaker 1: Democrats had had a guy who did lots of crimes,

968
00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:00,799
Speaker 1: well it was an all as they would have.

969
00:49:00,960 --> 00:49:01,120
Speaker 3: Right.

970
00:49:01,239 --> 00:49:03,600
Speaker 4: Democrats were in charge of Congress even before Nixon, Right,

971
00:49:03,600 --> 00:49:06,680
Speaker 4: So it's more like Nixon reads an additional life into

972
00:49:06,719 --> 00:49:10,120
Speaker 4: the Democratic Congress, and the Democratic Congress isn't always super

973
00:49:10,160 --> 00:49:13,640
Speaker 4: pro regulatory. That's a much longer story. But if you've

974
00:49:13,640 --> 00:49:16,440
Speaker 4: got a Democratic Congress and you're a Republican president, then

975
00:49:16,480 --> 00:49:18,760
Speaker 4: it certainly helps to have a theory of presidential power

976
00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:21,080
Speaker 4: that will let you ignore what Congress is doing or

977
00:49:21,080 --> 00:49:23,040
Speaker 4: at the very least cut through some of what Congress

978
00:49:23,120 --> 00:49:25,880
Speaker 4: is doing. And the fact that the Republicans were perceived

979
00:49:25,880 --> 00:49:28,160
Speaker 4: to be the party of big business meant that if

980
00:49:28,160 --> 00:49:29,719
Speaker 4: you were a big business you might want to be

981
00:49:29,719 --> 00:49:32,840
Speaker 4: behind a strong president who could cut through what the

982
00:49:32,880 --> 00:49:35,440
Speaker 4: Democratic Congress would do. So that's one bucket of arguments.

983
00:49:35,560 --> 00:49:37,680
Speaker 4: The other bucket of arguments might just be that by

984
00:49:37,680 --> 00:49:40,360
Speaker 4: the time we get to the end of the twentieth century,

985
00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:44,200
Speaker 4: we've already built up a regulatory apparatus, and obviously it's

986
00:49:44,200 --> 00:49:46,640
Speaker 4: a super imperfect one, right, I don't have to tell

987
00:49:46,640 --> 00:49:51,080
Speaker 4: the listeners of your show how obviously inadequate the regulatory

988
00:49:51,120 --> 00:49:55,200
Speaker 4: state has been. Nevertheless, there was a lot of it

989
00:49:55,239 --> 00:49:57,920
Speaker 4: in place, and so if you were the kind of

990
00:49:58,080 --> 00:50:03,360
Speaker 4: interest that wanted to cut through those regulatory activities, you

991
00:50:03,440 --> 00:50:06,640
Speaker 4: had a better chance doing it through the president who

992
00:50:06,640 --> 00:50:08,320
Speaker 4: could have reached through them, especially if you had a

993
00:50:08,360 --> 00:50:12,080
Speaker 4: Republican president in office, then you might through Congress. So

994
00:50:12,480 --> 00:50:15,800
Speaker 4: what Ahmed and minand what ashen Lev and I argue

995
00:50:16,040 --> 00:50:20,879
Speaker 4: is that actually the reason why folks like Heritage are

996
00:50:20,880 --> 00:50:24,480
Speaker 4: interested in a strong president is in order to advance

997
00:50:24,560 --> 00:50:29,719
Speaker 4: deregulatory priorities. Because the president a strong president can be

998
00:50:30,160 --> 00:50:33,319
Speaker 4: the deregulator in chief. And for what it's worth, that

999
00:50:33,360 --> 00:50:35,920
Speaker 4: totally explains what it looks like Donald Trump wants to

1000
00:50:35,960 --> 00:50:36,680
Speaker 4: do with the office.

1001
00:50:36,960 --> 00:50:37,120
Speaker 3: Right.

1002
00:50:37,160 --> 00:50:38,960
Speaker 4: On the one hand, it does seemed like he wants

1003
00:50:39,000 --> 00:50:42,040
Speaker 4: to use presidential power to advance what are frankly just

1004
00:50:42,120 --> 00:50:45,640
Speaker 4: you know, nativist, xenophobic goals. But when it comes to

1005
00:50:45,680 --> 00:50:48,759
Speaker 4: the actual management of the American markets, you know, if

1006
00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:52,280
Speaker 4: you think about the way that his Environmental Protection Agency acted,

1007
00:50:52,920 --> 00:50:55,880
Speaker 4: the way that he thinks about safety standards right this,

1008
00:50:56,120 --> 00:50:59,640
Speaker 4: it seems likely that were he empowered the way he

1009
00:50:59,640 --> 00:51:02,480
Speaker 4: would like to be, he would be using that power

1010
00:51:02,560 --> 00:51:07,040
Speaker 4: to make it easier for large agglomerations of capital to operate,

1011
00:51:07,600 --> 00:51:08,160
Speaker 4: not harder.

1012
00:51:08,440 --> 00:51:11,799
Speaker 1: But these are the same people who were furious with

1013
00:51:11,920 --> 00:51:14,120
Speaker 1: Obama for executive orders.

1014
00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:18,000
Speaker 4: Are you suggesting that how people think about executive power

1015
00:51:18,080 --> 00:51:22,799
Speaker 4: based on who gets to wield it. I'm scandalized that

1016
00:51:22,960 --> 00:51:27,000
Speaker 4: political actors are politically are politically active.

1017
00:51:28,280 --> 00:51:29,120
Speaker 2: And partisan.

1018
00:51:29,760 --> 00:51:31,719
Speaker 4: Part of my journey one of the reasons I'm a

1019
00:51:31,800 --> 00:51:35,520
Speaker 4: law professor is because I was really taken aback by

1020
00:51:35,560 --> 00:51:39,520
Speaker 4: the flip flopping around questions of executive power as we

1021
00:51:39,560 --> 00:51:42,799
Speaker 4: went from the George W. Bush administration to the Obama administration,

1022
00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:46,040
Speaker 4: to the Trump administration now to the Biden administration. And

1023
00:51:46,239 --> 00:51:48,239
Speaker 4: call me old fashioned, but I would like to see

1024
00:51:48,239 --> 00:51:50,600
Speaker 4: some integrity at least in our thinking about what makes

1025
00:51:50,600 --> 00:51:51,800
Speaker 4: for good democratic government.

1026
00:51:52,120 --> 00:51:55,279
Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't think that's happening anytime soon, though.

1027
00:51:55,200 --> 00:51:58,680
Speaker 4: You're undoubtedly right. That's why, that's why I became a

1028
00:51:58,760 --> 00:52:01,720
Speaker 4: law professor, and that's why or on the waves trying

1029
00:52:01,760 --> 00:52:03,440
Speaker 4: to help save our country.

1030
00:52:03,760 --> 00:52:06,960
Speaker 1: I want to like step back from minute because I'm

1031
00:52:06,960 --> 00:52:11,840
Speaker 1: hoping we can talk about amendments the Constitution. I'm going

1032
00:52:11,880 --> 00:52:16,359
Speaker 1: here like on purpose because one of the you know,

1033
00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:21,560
Speaker 1: we have this very very conservative Supreme Court. Trump managed,

1034
00:52:21,600 --> 00:52:24,400
Speaker 1: with the help of Mitch McConnell, to install three justices

1035
00:52:24,880 --> 00:52:28,719
Speaker 1: really when he should have really only installed one, right

1036
00:52:28,800 --> 00:52:33,880
Speaker 1: because of the timetable, and or maybe two, but it

1037
00:52:34,000 --> 00:52:36,279
Speaker 1: seemed like, you know, they were very smart about the

1038
00:52:36,280 --> 00:52:36,880
Speaker 1: way they did it.

1039
00:52:36,920 --> 00:52:39,239
Speaker 2: So now it's a six ' three court. They are

1040
00:52:39,320 --> 00:52:39,880
Speaker 2: in bolden.

1041
00:52:40,120 --> 00:52:44,680
Speaker 1: They are remaking our country in weird and wild conservative ways,

1042
00:52:44,719 --> 00:52:50,520
Speaker 1: everything from water to abortion. Congress does have some power

1043
00:52:50,680 --> 00:52:52,280
Speaker 1: here to keep them in check.

1044
00:52:52,440 --> 00:52:55,480
Speaker 4: I'd even say Congress has a ton of latent power

1045
00:52:55,600 --> 00:52:58,040
Speaker 4: if only it can get its act together to exercise it.

1046
00:52:58,400 --> 00:53:00,040
Speaker 2: So talk to me a little bit about what that

1047
00:53:00,280 --> 00:53:00,880
Speaker 2: would look like.

1048
00:53:01,239 --> 00:53:05,320
Speaker 4: So the Constitution says very little about the federal courts.

1049
00:53:05,600 --> 00:53:08,319
Speaker 4: It says that there shall be a Supreme Court, but

1050
00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:11,560
Speaker 4: it doesn't tell us very much about what that Supreme

1051
00:53:11,600 --> 00:53:15,160
Speaker 4: Court has to do. It defines its original jurisdiction, the

1052
00:53:15,200 --> 00:53:18,600
Speaker 4: cases it has to hear as a court of first instance,

1053
00:53:18,760 --> 00:53:21,200
Speaker 4: learn very many of those, and then the Constitution doesn't

1054
00:53:21,200 --> 00:53:23,799
Speaker 4: require the creation of any lower courts at all. It

1055
00:53:23,880 --> 00:53:26,480
Speaker 4: leaves that to Congress to create whatever courts. So, in

1056
00:53:26,520 --> 00:53:29,480
Speaker 4: other words, the Constitution leaves Congress a tremendous amount of

1057
00:53:29,480 --> 00:53:33,480
Speaker 4: space to define the number of justices on the Supreme Court,

1058
00:53:33,719 --> 00:53:36,640
Speaker 4: the kinds of matters that the Supreme Court gets to

1059
00:53:36,760 --> 00:53:41,000
Speaker 4: hear on appeal, the number of other intermediate federal courts

1060
00:53:41,000 --> 00:53:44,480
Speaker 4: that exist, their jurisdiction, and how they go about hearing things. So,

1061
00:53:44,840 --> 00:53:48,960
Speaker 4: if you were a Congress interested in curbing the Supreme Court,

1062
00:53:49,520 --> 00:53:52,960
Speaker 4: you could do it by adding new judges to the court.

1063
00:53:53,800 --> 00:53:57,240
Speaker 4: You could do it by creating lots of other courts

1064
00:53:57,800 --> 00:54:01,200
Speaker 4: and having different kinds of cases in different ways before

1065
00:54:01,239 --> 00:54:03,799
Speaker 4: they get to the Supreme Court. You could also do

1066
00:54:03,840 --> 00:54:08,120
Speaker 4: it by transforming how the Supreme Court itself operates. So

1067
00:54:08,200 --> 00:54:09,759
Speaker 4: let me just say more about this idea because it's

1068
00:54:09,800 --> 00:54:12,560
Speaker 4: one of my favorites. Imagine if instead of having nine

1069
00:54:12,640 --> 00:54:15,040
Speaker 4: justices on the Supreme Court, or twelve justices on the

1070
00:54:15,040 --> 00:54:18,319
Speaker 4: Supreme Court, or whatever, the Supreme Court had one chief

1071
00:54:18,440 --> 00:54:22,480
Speaker 4: judge and every other judge in the federal system were

1072
00:54:22,600 --> 00:54:26,160
Speaker 4: Supreme Court justice, and the Supreme Court heard cases in

1073
00:54:26,280 --> 00:54:31,200
Speaker 4: randomly chosen panels. Most of the federal appeals courts operate

1074
00:54:31,320 --> 00:54:35,160
Speaker 4: this way. There are twenty judges on a federal appeals court,

1075
00:54:35,520 --> 00:54:37,600
Speaker 4: but a case is heard by a randomly chosen panel

1076
00:54:37,640 --> 00:54:39,719
Speaker 4: of three. And there are some good things and bad

1077
00:54:39,760 --> 00:54:41,719
Speaker 4: things about that system. But I'll tell you one thing.

1078
00:54:42,080 --> 00:54:46,560
Speaker 4: It means that instead of having a durable super majority

1079
00:54:46,840 --> 00:54:49,360
Speaker 4: or you can just count the people in advance and

1080
00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:52,480
Speaker 4: know whose personalities you need to appeal to, the composition

1081
00:54:52,520 --> 00:54:55,000
Speaker 4: of the court is the product of a random process,

1082
00:54:55,280 --> 00:54:58,840
Speaker 4: and it will roughly correspond on average to the balance

1083
00:54:58,840 --> 00:55:01,120
Speaker 4: of the other judges where part of the pant or

1084
00:55:01,200 --> 00:55:03,239
Speaker 4: part of the court system as a whole right, So

1085
00:55:03,239 --> 00:55:05,120
Speaker 4: that would be sort of a way of immediately transforming

1086
00:55:05,120 --> 00:55:07,799
Speaker 4: out the court operates and completely constitutional, by the way,

1087
00:55:07,920 --> 00:55:10,480
Speaker 4: truly no problems with it at all. And then a

1088
00:55:10,520 --> 00:55:12,120
Speaker 4: plan that a lot of people have been pushing that

1089
00:55:12,239 --> 00:55:15,400
Speaker 4: is another totally constitutional way of doing things would be

1090
00:55:15,520 --> 00:55:19,839
Speaker 4: to just limit the court's jurisdiction. So very famously, during

1091
00:55:19,880 --> 00:55:24,480
Speaker 4: Reconstruction after the Civil War, the radical Republicans in Congress,

1092
00:55:24,520 --> 00:55:26,920
Speaker 4: the ones who had fought the war to save the

1093
00:55:27,000 --> 00:55:31,560
Speaker 4: Union and were trying to make sure that the treasonous

1094
00:55:31,800 --> 00:55:35,040
Speaker 4: white supremacists in the South who had lost the war

1095
00:55:35,120 --> 00:55:39,239
Speaker 4: and betrayed the Constitution, weren't able to take advantage of

1096
00:55:39,280 --> 00:55:42,440
Speaker 4: the large ESTs of the victorious Union by allowing them

1097
00:55:42,440 --> 00:55:46,120
Speaker 4: back into the Union to undo the victory. Those radical

1098
00:55:46,120 --> 00:55:48,880
Speaker 4: Republicans were worried that the Supreme Court was going to

1099
00:55:48,920 --> 00:55:51,719
Speaker 4: strike down parts of Reconstruction, and so what did they do.

1100
00:55:52,080 --> 00:55:55,680
Speaker 4: They just stripped the court's jurisdiction, and the Court absolutely

1101
00:55:55,680 --> 00:55:57,520
Speaker 4: went along with it, because it's so clear that Congress

1102
00:55:57,520 --> 00:56:00,000
Speaker 4: has that power. I actually think another kind of fascinating

1103
00:56:00,080 --> 00:56:03,000
Speaker 4: moment to think about is after the election of eighteen hundred.

1104
00:56:03,280 --> 00:56:06,760
Speaker 4: So this is back to all of our high schoolistory classes,

1105
00:56:06,800 --> 00:56:10,399
Speaker 4: but up until eighteen hundred, the federal government had been

1106
00:56:10,840 --> 00:56:15,799
Speaker 4: controlled by the Federalist Party, that's George Washington Adams, and

1107
00:56:15,840 --> 00:56:20,080
Speaker 4: the election of eighteen hundred is super vituperative right way

1108
00:56:20,480 --> 00:56:25,200
Speaker 4: high on the partisan opposition scale between Jefferson and Adams,

1109
00:56:25,200 --> 00:56:28,560
Speaker 4: between the Federalist Party and the Democratic Republican Party, Jefferson

1110
00:56:28,600 --> 00:56:34,720
Speaker 4: wins first time. The new government is transferring power between parties,

1111
00:56:34,760 --> 00:56:36,720
Speaker 4: and just to really underscore how much the two parties

1112
00:56:36,719 --> 00:56:38,759
Speaker 4: hate each other, right, each party is convinced that the

1113
00:56:38,800 --> 00:56:41,560
Speaker 4: other one is trying to destroy the public. So, like

1114
00:56:42,320 --> 00:56:45,160
Speaker 4: you know, should remind us of a situation we're currently in. Anyway,

1115
00:56:45,160 --> 00:56:49,520
Speaker 4: when the Democratic Republicans come into power, the Federalists, their enemies,

1116
00:56:49,760 --> 00:56:54,480
Speaker 4: have stocked the federal courts with Federalist judges to try

1117
00:56:54,520 --> 00:56:56,440
Speaker 4: to hold onto power. So it's a lot like the

1118
00:56:56,480 --> 00:56:59,920
Speaker 4: current situation. And in fact the Supreme Court, in particular,

1119
00:57:00,640 --> 00:57:04,080
Speaker 4: John Adams jams through John Marshall to be the Chief

1120
00:57:04,160 --> 00:57:07,319
Speaker 4: Justice of the Supreme Court. He puts a major Federalist

1121
00:57:07,400 --> 00:57:10,120
Speaker 4: and a big enemy of the Democratic Republicans at the

1122
00:57:10,160 --> 00:57:12,799
Speaker 4: head of the Supreme Court. What do the Republicans do

1123
00:57:12,840 --> 00:57:14,920
Speaker 4: when they come into power. The first thing they do,

1124
00:57:15,000 --> 00:57:18,680
Speaker 4: of course, is they refuse to serve a bunch of commissions,

1125
00:57:18,840 --> 00:57:20,920
Speaker 4: and we can talk more about that. That's where Marbreaving

1126
00:57:20,920 --> 00:57:24,880
Speaker 4: Madison comes from. They repeal the Midnight Judges Act, but

1127
00:57:25,000 --> 00:57:29,880
Speaker 4: they also just cancel the Supreme Court's trump. They just say,

1128
00:57:29,960 --> 00:57:31,640
Speaker 4: you know what, the Supreme Court isn't going to hear

1129
00:57:31,640 --> 00:57:33,800
Speaker 4: any cases next year. And the next time the Supreme

1130
00:57:33,840 --> 00:57:36,479
Speaker 4: Court comes around to hear cases, you bet that John

1131
00:57:36,520 --> 00:57:38,960
Speaker 4: Marshall is thinking to himself, wait a minute, if I

1132
00:57:39,360 --> 00:57:43,880
Speaker 4: issue rulings that are so repugnant to the people of

1133
00:57:43,920 --> 00:57:47,040
Speaker 4: this country, it's possible that my court will lose all

1134
00:57:47,160 --> 00:57:50,600
Speaker 4: its legitimacy, and the Congress and the Democratic Republicans in

1135
00:57:50,640 --> 00:57:53,880
Speaker 4: the Congress will go further to further trim my sales

1136
00:57:53,920 --> 00:57:56,880
Speaker 4: answerp me of power. And so the Court changes course.

1137
00:57:56,920 --> 00:57:58,960
Speaker 4: The Court reacts to the fact that it was out

1138
00:57:58,960 --> 00:58:01,720
Speaker 4: of step with the will of the people. So, you

1139
00:58:01,760 --> 00:58:03,439
Speaker 4: know what is this tell us about the current moment.

1140
00:58:03,520 --> 00:58:06,400
Speaker 4: I think it's a reminder that at other moments in

1141
00:58:06,440 --> 00:58:11,840
Speaker 4: American history, the executive and Congress have been very aggressive

1142
00:58:12,280 --> 00:58:16,600
Speaker 4: in trying to rein in robue Supreme courts. The Supreme

1143
00:58:16,600 --> 00:58:20,240
Speaker 4: Court has gone rogue before, and it has been brought

1144
00:58:20,280 --> 00:58:24,960
Speaker 4: to heal before through the ordinary political process and the

1145
00:58:25,000 --> 00:58:27,800
Speaker 4: powers that Congress and the President already have.

1146
00:58:28,360 --> 00:58:31,080
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Noah, We're going to have to have.

1147
00:58:31,080 --> 00:58:38,120
Speaker 4: You back anytime. Molly, it's really been a pleasure.

1148
00:58:35,680 --> 00:58:41,240
Speaker 1: No moment exectly Jesse Cannon, Molly jung Fast.

1149
00:58:41,440 --> 00:58:44,480
Speaker 5: So I feel like it's a little rough waters when

1150
00:58:44,880 --> 00:58:48,200
Speaker 5: Ron DeSantis has to defend this terrible policy he has

1151
00:58:48,280 --> 00:58:51,600
Speaker 5: teaching this curriculum and he's not navigating it. Well, tell

1152
00:58:51,600 --> 00:58:52,320
Speaker 5: me what you're seeing.

1153
00:58:52,600 --> 00:58:58,240
Speaker 1: Ron DeSantis today had to defend his curriculum, his new

1154
00:58:58,280 --> 00:59:03,640
Speaker 1: Florida curriculum, which argues that slaves may have learned some

1155
00:59:03,920 --> 00:59:10,080
Speaker 1: useful skills. Ron DeSantis' communication director for Education Florida is

1156
00:59:10,080 --> 00:59:14,800
Speaker 1: a guy called alex Land Franco T. Konini, who was

1157
00:59:15,640 --> 00:59:22,040
Speaker 1: a frequent Mom's for Liberty retweeter. He said that this

1158
00:59:22,240 --> 00:59:26,480
Speaker 1: in his African American history standards, his statements had any

1159
00:59:26,520 --> 00:59:31,120
Speaker 1: attempt to reduce slaves to just victims of oppression fails

1160
00:59:31,200 --> 00:59:34,080
Speaker 1: to recognize their strength and courage and resilience during a

1161
00:59:34,120 --> 00:59:38,360
Speaker 1: difficult time in American history. What so, let's just talk

1162
00:59:38,400 --> 00:59:42,400
Speaker 1: for a minute about some of these slaves they used

1163
00:59:42,440 --> 00:59:46,840
Speaker 1: to talk about as people who were able to get

1164
00:59:47,080 --> 00:59:52,160
Speaker 1: jobs from being slaves. Okay, So one of the people

1165
00:59:52,280 --> 00:59:54,800
Speaker 1: is called Ned Cobb. He was listed as a blacksmith,

1166
00:59:55,160 --> 00:59:59,920
Speaker 1: but he actually was a tenant farmer and not a slave.

1167
01:00:00,440 --> 01:00:02,960
Speaker 1: And another person is called Henry Blair, and he was

1168
01:00:03,040 --> 01:00:05,160
Speaker 1: listed as a blacksmith, but he actually.

1169
01:00:04,840 --> 01:00:05,720
Speaker 2: Was never enslaved.

1170
01:00:06,120 --> 01:00:08,840
Speaker 1: And as you look through a lot of this history,

1171
01:00:08,840 --> 01:00:11,360
Speaker 1: you see that a lot of these people and one

1172
01:00:11,360 --> 01:00:15,080
Speaker 1: of the people they list is Betty Washington Lewis, who

1173
01:00:15,160 --> 01:00:18,160
Speaker 1: is the white sister of George Washington. So I think

1174
01:00:18,200 --> 01:00:20,800
Speaker 1: it's important to realize that what is happening here in

1175
01:00:20,880 --> 01:00:24,760
Speaker 1: Florida with their education standards is not making anyone smarter,

1176
01:00:25,200 --> 01:00:27,040
Speaker 1: and for that they.

1177
01:00:26,880 --> 01:00:28,480
Speaker 2: Are our moment of fuck ray.

1178
01:00:29,520 --> 01:00:32,880
Speaker 1: That's it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in

1179
01:00:32,920 --> 01:00:36,120
Speaker 1: every Monday, Wednesday and Friday to hear the best minds

1180
01:00:36,160 --> 01:00:37,400
Speaker 1: in politics.

1181
01:00:36,880 --> 01:00:38,880
Speaker 2: Makes sense of all this chaos.

1182
01:00:39,160 --> 01:00:41,720
Speaker 1: If you enjoyed what you've heard, please send it to

1183
01:00:41,760 --> 01:00:45,160
Speaker 1: a friend and keep the conversation going. And again, thanks

1184
01:00:45,160 --> 01:00:45,800
Speaker 1: for listening.