WEBVTT - Crosswords episode, perhaps? 0:00:01.440 --> 0:00:11.360 Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio. Hey, 0:00:11.400 --> 0:00:15.120 and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh. There's shuck and 0:00:15.320 --> 0:00:21.160 this is Stuff you Should Know for one seven letters. 0:00:23.360 --> 0:00:26.799 I'm really excited about this one because you and I 0:00:26.880 --> 0:00:30.120 chatted recently, I think, probably on our super secret trip, 0:00:30.840 --> 0:00:35.240 our research trip out west, about my new crossword passion, 0:00:36.320 --> 0:00:40.040 which started I don't know sometime in twenty twenty two, 0:00:40.920 --> 0:00:43.840 where I started dabbling in the New York Times Crossword 0:00:44.440 --> 0:00:49.320 for the first time, doing Monday Tuesday ish. I would 0:00:49.360 --> 0:00:51.360 try Wednesdays, and then I was like, I wouldn't even 0:00:51.400 --> 0:00:54.400 try anything past that because I knew they got progressively harder, 0:00:54.720 --> 0:00:56.480 and I wasn't, you know, I was just sort of 0:00:56.560 --> 0:00:59.639 learning the language of crosswords, which is a thing we'll 0:00:59.680 --> 0:01:01.960 talk about, yeah, And then I was like, you know what, 0:01:02.000 --> 0:01:04.600 I'm gonna try these other ones, and before you know it, 0:01:04.680 --> 0:01:08.360 I'm doing all seven days. Oh really like and finishing 0:01:08.360 --> 0:01:12.400 them with my little cheats, which we'll talk about as well. 0:01:12.720 --> 0:01:17.280 Oh that's pretty cool, man. Saturday's too, huh. Saturday's too. 0:01:17.319 --> 0:01:20.520 And I love doing it so so much. It has 0:01:20.600 --> 0:01:23.800 really added a lot of like happiness in my life. 0:01:23.800 --> 0:01:27.000 I really really enjoy it. Man, do some crosswords. Take 0:01:27.040 --> 0:01:29.480 a good nap, drink some tomorrow. You got to figure 0:01:29.480 --> 0:01:32.560 it out. It's all coming up, chuck. So the New 0:01:32.640 --> 0:01:34.959 York Times, he just said, it's all coming up, Chuck. 0:01:36.040 --> 0:01:40.240 The New York Times is probably the most at least iconic, 0:01:40.280 --> 0:01:42.600 if not well known, in the United States, at least 0:01:42.800 --> 0:01:46.280 crossword puzzle in the whole country. Sure. One thing I 0:01:46.319 --> 0:01:48.560 didn't know, Olivia helps us with this is that The 0:01:48.600 --> 0:01:53.040 New York Times was actually the last metropolitan newspaper by 0:01:53.160 --> 0:01:57.400 far to start running their own crossword puzzle. Yeah, because 0:01:57.480 --> 0:02:02.560 for a good twenty year the New York Times just 0:02:02.720 --> 0:02:06.360 looked down. It's knows that crosswords is a brainless fad 0:02:06.920 --> 0:02:10.200 that would surely and ever any day now, and it 0:02:10.320 --> 0:02:13.200 just never didn't. They finally caved, and then you know, 0:02:13.800 --> 0:02:18.160 sixty eighty years later, something like that sing about eighty 0:02:18.240 --> 0:02:22.040 years Wow, that's crazy. Um, it's now like the number 0:02:22.040 --> 0:02:27.519 one crossword puzzle of all time ever the paper of record. Yeah, 0:02:27.600 --> 0:02:32.200 so should we talk about the inventor of the word 0:02:32.240 --> 0:02:36.080 cross Yeah, that's what it was called at first. His 0:02:36.200 --> 0:02:41.280 name was he was a brit and he was an immigrant. Well, 0:02:41.320 --> 0:02:43.600 he was a British immigrant. What does that mean? He 0:02:43.720 --> 0:02:46.560 was an immigrant to the United States from Great Britain, 0:02:46.600 --> 0:02:49.680 from Liverpool to be specific. All right, I get it now. 0:02:50.560 --> 0:02:53.200 His name is Arthur Wynn, with two ends and one 0:02:53.400 --> 0:02:58.639 y and any in a W. And he there were 0:02:58.720 --> 0:03:02.160 some we didn't go over the prehistory of crosswords, but 0:03:02.240 --> 0:03:06.320 there had been sort of crossword like word puzzles for 0:03:06.800 --> 0:03:10.079 hundreds and thousands of years in some cases. And when 0:03:10.320 --> 0:03:13.440 was probably pretty familiar with these, and he managed what 0:03:13.560 --> 0:03:16.800 was called the Fun section of New York World that 0:03:16.880 --> 0:03:19.600 had puzzles and jokes and things like that. And then 0:03:19.680 --> 0:03:22.760 finally in nineteen thirteen, he said, in our Christmas edition 0:03:22.800 --> 0:03:25.880 this year, I've created a puzzle called a word cross 0:03:26.880 --> 0:03:30.160 that was shaped like a diamond, had no blacked out squares, 0:03:30.800 --> 0:03:33.799 and had you know, sort of crossword clues like we 0:03:33.840 --> 0:03:36.880 would recognize them today. Yeah, I mean, it was essentially 0:03:36.960 --> 0:03:39.119 a crossword. He just got the name wrong. He got 0:03:39.120 --> 0:03:43.640 it the name swapped, well, he got it right. Who 0:03:43.680 --> 0:03:46.600 got it wrong but ended up being right was an 0:03:46.640 --> 0:03:51.520 illustrator who accidentally swapped those words. And it was cross 0:03:51.640 --> 0:03:54.800 dash word capital C, capital W. Yeah, and that name 0:03:54.880 --> 0:03:58.000 stuck in it eventually just they said, let's quit with 0:03:58.080 --> 0:04:00.000 a little dash in the middle, and let's go ahead, 0:04:00.120 --> 0:04:03.760 make it one word yep. And Wynn was like, hey, 0:04:03.760 --> 0:04:06.320 this is actually starting to get kind of popular within 0:04:06.800 --> 0:04:09.520 just a few months, and he went to the publishers 0:04:09.560 --> 0:04:13.160 of the world and said, hey, we should probably patent this. 0:04:13.240 --> 0:04:14.960 And the world said, do you know how much it 0:04:15.000 --> 0:04:18.080 cost to patent something these days? One hundred dollars. Get 0:04:18.080 --> 0:04:21.680 out of my office and did not ever patent the crossword. 0:04:21.720 --> 0:04:23.760 And I think that was actually a really it was 0:04:23.800 --> 0:04:25.920 a bad move on the world's part, but I think 0:04:25.960 --> 0:04:31.279 it was really great for the world. The world, you know, yeah, yeah, totally. 0:04:31.480 --> 0:04:34.360 That would be very strange if crosswords were patented. Yeah, 0:04:34.440 --> 0:04:36.760 I don't think that they would be anywhere near as 0:04:36.800 --> 0:04:39.520 prevalent as they are now. So in that sense, the 0:04:39.560 --> 0:04:42.400 publishers of the world gave us all a pretty neat present, 0:04:43.279 --> 0:04:44.760 and we are going to give you a pretty neat 0:04:44.760 --> 0:04:49.200 present by introducing you to a woman named Margaret Petherbridge. 0:04:50.120 --> 0:04:54.640 This was at the time Arthur Winn's secretary, and he said, hey, 0:04:54.920 --> 0:04:57.000 you know, you're pretty sharp, why don't you take this 0:04:57.080 --> 0:05:00.320 job over? And it turned out she had a real 0:05:00.400 --> 0:05:06.040 knack for not only creating crosswords, but kind of codifying 0:05:06.839 --> 0:05:10.880 what crosswords were and sort of the rules of crosswords. 0:05:10.880 --> 0:05:13.599 She was the earliest one to sort of put in 0:05:13.640 --> 0:05:16.479 place these rules like, hey, you should have a separate 0:05:16.560 --> 0:05:19.520 list for a cross and for down, and you shouldn't 0:05:19.520 --> 0:05:22.480 have any unchecked boxes, which is a square that's only 0:05:22.560 --> 0:05:25.599 part of one word, like it should all tie together. Yeah, 0:05:25.680 --> 0:05:28.360 and very early on, I think if she didn't add 0:05:28.360 --> 0:05:31.560 the black squares, which are called blanks, the squares you 0:05:31.600 --> 0:05:36.200 actually fill in, they're called lights, she helps standardize them 0:05:36.240 --> 0:05:39.839 because very quickly they if you look at a crossroad. 0:05:39.880 --> 0:05:42.200 I never knew this before until we started researching this. 0:05:42.640 --> 0:05:45.440 If you look at all the blanks, the blacks, the squares, 0:05:46.360 --> 0:05:49.000 they're symmetrical. If you look at the left side and 0:05:49.000 --> 0:05:51.440 the right side, they're mirror images of one another. And 0:05:51.520 --> 0:05:53.080 you can turn it on its side and the top 0:05:53.120 --> 0:05:55.960 and the bottom or mirror images of one another. And 0:05:56.000 --> 0:05:58.560 I was like, why, how does that help anything? And 0:05:58.640 --> 0:06:02.520 apparently they just decided, I think, if it wasn't Margaret 0:06:02.520 --> 0:06:05.320 Pether Bridget with somebody she was friends with early on, 0:06:05.880 --> 0:06:09.960 that symmetry is just beautiful, so make it symmetrical. Well, 0:06:09.960 --> 0:06:13.120 they're not always like that they are. I mean, I'm 0:06:13.120 --> 0:06:16.960 looking at Today's and it's not symmetrical. No, I spent 0:06:17.160 --> 0:06:20.599 so much time trying to find like something that undermined that, 0:06:20.640 --> 0:06:23.040 and I didn't like. I was like, oh, it's it 0:06:23.080 --> 0:06:26.159 is symmetrical. That's symmetrical. Holy cow, that's symmetrical. Did you 0:06:26.160 --> 0:06:28.440 look at any crossword puzzles? I like, yes, I looked 0:06:28.440 --> 0:06:31.040 at crossword puzzles. Apparently I didn't look at the one 0:06:31.120 --> 0:06:33.960 from today, though. Well, Today's not. It has a great 0:06:34.000 --> 0:06:36.080 deal of symmetry now that I'm looking at it, and 0:06:36.120 --> 0:06:40.520 this is something I've never noticed. But for instance, I'm 0:06:40.520 --> 0:06:43.360 looking at one which on the right side is an 0:06:43.520 --> 0:06:47.480 L and on the other side it's an L. The 0:06:47.520 --> 0:06:51.880 bottom square of that L. Okay, so it's it's not 0:06:52.000 --> 0:06:56.720 quite symmetrical, but it is kind of symmetrical in some parts. 0:06:58.000 --> 0:07:00.560 I'm so sick of this stupid conversation. Are you looking 0:07:00.600 --> 0:07:03.520 at the Today's yet? I can't. I don't have my 0:07:03.560 --> 0:07:06.040 log in right now, so well, i'll take a screenshot. 0:07:06.120 --> 0:07:08.440 I'll take your word for it. Man, all right. I'm 0:07:08.480 --> 0:07:10.960 just so bummed though, because you thought that was like 0:07:10.960 --> 0:07:13.080 the fact of the show. It was one of them 0:07:13.080 --> 0:07:14.760 for sure, and now it turned out to be the 0:07:14.840 --> 0:07:17.840 incorrect fact of the show. Well, let's move on to 0:07:17.880 --> 0:07:21.840 the nineteen twenties, when a young company called Simon and 0:07:21.880 --> 0:07:26.200 Schuster said, Richard Simond's aunt, I think, said, hey, these 0:07:26.240 --> 0:07:28.280 crosswords a lot of fun. You guys should package He's 0:07:28.320 --> 0:07:31.280 together in a book, because your book company. And so 0:07:31.400 --> 0:07:37.880 they hired Margaret Petherbridge, codifier of rules and master crossword designer, 0:07:38.800 --> 0:07:40.840 to put this book together. And she got a couple 0:07:40.840 --> 0:07:43.120 of other editors from the world and said, all right, 0:07:43.160 --> 0:07:46.000 let's get to work on this thing. It'll come out 0:07:46.040 --> 0:07:47.640 in nineteen twenty four. It will come with a free 0:07:47.680 --> 0:07:50.720 pencil and a racer, which is super cute. Yeah, and 0:07:50.920 --> 0:07:53.280 sold one hundred and twenty three thousand copies in that 0:07:53.320 --> 0:07:56.080 first year. Yeah, and that one rants or did so 0:07:56.120 --> 0:07:59.119 well that they released a second edition, in a third edition, 0:08:00.360 --> 0:08:02.640 all within the same year, and all combined, those three 0:08:02.800 --> 0:08:06.040 editions by Christmas time had sold more than a quarter 0:08:06.080 --> 0:08:11.040 of a million copies. For a fledgling publishing house. That's 0:08:11.080 --> 0:08:13.920 a pretty big thing. But also they were very smart, 0:08:13.920 --> 0:08:18.480 Simon and Schuster. They created the Amateur Crossword Puzzle League 0:08:18.520 --> 0:08:23.480 of America to basically help promote crossword doing solving, I 0:08:23.480 --> 0:08:26.440 guess is what they call it, in order to help 0:08:26.520 --> 0:08:30.440 sell more books. And it worked. Actually, it became a 0:08:30.560 --> 0:08:34.839 legitimate thing. They started standardizing crosswords as well. Oh hold on, 0:08:34.880 --> 0:08:37.360 you know what I think I'm wrong? I just sent 0:08:37.440 --> 0:08:44.120 you yes, yes, So it's a mirror image in a way. 0:08:44.320 --> 0:08:47.720 It's it's not I thought everything would correspond directly across 0:08:47.760 --> 0:08:52.800 from one another, but it also works diagonally, So I 0:08:52.880 --> 0:08:57.880 see what you mean. It is symmetrical if you include 0:08:57.880 --> 0:09:00.680 the diagonal. So if you look in the tipe bright corner, 0:09:00.800 --> 0:09:05.040 the bottom left corner should be the mirror image of that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:09:05.120 --> 0:09:09.440 it's symmetrical. They're all symmetrical. It's insane because it makes 0:09:09.480 --> 0:09:11.680 it so much harder. Oh man, I'm so glad we 0:09:11.720 --> 0:09:16.000 solved that for you, because thank you, dumb when I 0:09:16.040 --> 0:09:18.920 was dumb, No, you didn't make me feel dumb. Mind. Well, 0:09:18.920 --> 0:09:20.280 I kept looking at it and I was like, how 0:09:20.320 --> 0:09:22.960 can parts of it be symmetrical? That didn't make any sense, right, 0:09:23.360 --> 0:09:27.120 But I was looking for like a direct flip. It's 0:09:27.120 --> 0:09:29.280 hard to explain how my brain was looking at This 0:09:29.360 --> 0:09:33.320 is a rare in show correction for one of us 0:09:33.360 --> 0:09:37.040 against the other. Right. Um. So oh yeah. Back to 0:09:37.080 --> 0:09:40.680 the Amateur Crossword Puzzle League of America. Yes, um, which 0:09:40.679 --> 0:09:43.600 sounds like they were all wearing capes while they totally 0:09:43.840 --> 0:09:47.880 did um. But they had some rules like, um, no 0:09:47.920 --> 0:09:50.120 part of the puzzle can be completely cut off from 0:09:50.160 --> 0:09:52.559 the rest. Sure, so you can't use black squares to 0:09:52.679 --> 0:09:55.840 just make an island of one grid. Um. You also 0:09:56.600 --> 0:10:00.439 can't use tons of black squares. Uh. They actually is, 0:10:00.440 --> 0:10:03.640 we'll see, make it easier to create a crossword because 0:10:04.040 --> 0:10:06.439 using black squares breaks up the stuff so you don't 0:10:06.480 --> 0:10:09.600 have to come up with So a typical I think 0:10:09.640 --> 0:10:13.160 New York Times crossword is fifteen across and fifteen down, 0:10:13.720 --> 0:10:16.240 So if you didn't use black squares, you would have 0:10:16.280 --> 0:10:21.160 to come up with fifteen fifteen letter words. So no, 0:10:21.880 --> 0:10:25.360 I guess thirty fifteen letter words, which would be really 0:10:25.400 --> 0:10:27.840 really hard because they'd also all have to interact. So 0:10:27.880 --> 0:10:29.760 they use these black squares to kind of break things 0:10:29.840 --> 0:10:32.160 up and make it a little easier on themselves, to 0:10:32.240 --> 0:10:35.280 shorten the letters and words and stuff like that. But 0:10:35.800 --> 0:10:38.880 the Amateur Crossword Puzzle League of America said, Okay, no 0:10:39.000 --> 0:10:41.600 more than one sixth of all the squares can be 0:10:41.640 --> 0:10:45.520 blacks can be the black squares, because after that you're 0:10:45.559 --> 0:10:48.600 really just kind of making a lame crossword. Yeah, and 0:10:48.640 --> 0:10:52.160 I want to take another stab at correcting you, Oh no, 0:10:53.840 --> 0:10:56.000 or to maybe clear up when you say fifteen across 0:10:56.040 --> 0:11:02.320 and fifteen downs, that's fifteen lines, not fifteen clues, right, 0:11:02.400 --> 0:11:06.960 But there's also fifteen spaces right total I'm saying. And 0:11:07.000 --> 0:11:10.160 if there weren't any blacked out blanks, you would have 0:11:10.200 --> 0:11:13.240 a fifteen letter word across at the top, a fifteen 0:11:13.280 --> 0:11:15.480 letter word below that, a fifteen letter word below that, 0:11:15.720 --> 0:11:19.200 and then from up vertically there'd be that have to 0:11:19.280 --> 0:11:21.480 make a note its owned fifteen letter word, and so 0:11:21.600 --> 0:11:25.640 on and so forth. So yeah, it'd be fifteen across 0:11:25.679 --> 0:11:28.040 in fifteen down, right. I just want to make sure 0:11:28.080 --> 0:11:31.559 people knew you didn't mean fifteen across clues in fifteen 0:11:31.600 --> 0:11:36.800 down clues. There's fifteen lines vertically, in fifteen lines horizontally, 0:11:37.400 --> 0:11:40.079 and on each line there can be as many as 0:11:40.400 --> 0:11:45.960 you know, four words, no, no, four clues, Okay, but 0:11:46.120 --> 0:11:49.640 that's if you have black blank squares. If you didn't 0:11:49.720 --> 0:11:52.240 have blank right, But if you didn't, you'd have to 0:11:52.240 --> 0:11:55.280 come up with fifteen letter words, any of them that 0:11:55.440 --> 0:11:58.400 all interactive with one another. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:11:58.400 --> 0:12:01.160 I get it. But it sounded are we really talking 0:12:01.200 --> 0:12:03.840 about this, man, this is a brainbuster of an episode. 0:12:03.880 --> 0:12:06.480 I wasn't expecting this when you were talking about it. Initially, 0:12:06.520 --> 0:12:09.480 it sounded like you were saying, there were fifteen acrosses 0:12:09.520 --> 0:12:14.040 in fifteen downs. Yes, if you didn't have black squares, 0:12:14.120 --> 0:12:17.839 there would be right, but there, that's not a crossword, 0:12:18.520 --> 0:12:21.640 right right, agreed. But the thing is is you could 0:12:21.720 --> 0:12:23.720 keep adding more and more black squares to make it 0:12:23.760 --> 0:12:28.320 easier on yourself, the puzzle constructor. And if you why, 0:12:28.320 --> 0:12:31.439 because they're shorter words. Yeah, it makes shorter words. It 0:12:31.480 --> 0:12:33.600 makes it easier to come up with words that interact 0:12:33.640 --> 0:12:38.800 and intersect with one another. And I disagree. They said, well, 0:12:38.960 --> 0:12:41.439 you should take it up with the crossword puzzle constructors 0:12:41.440 --> 0:12:44.319 because they say it makes it easier. Oh really, Because 0:12:44.360 --> 0:12:47.599 I've begun working on constructing my own, that's sort of 0:12:47.640 --> 0:12:51.000 the giveaway. And I found that having a good long 0:12:51.040 --> 0:12:54.480 word is a real benefit. Okay, yeah, it definitely can be. 0:12:55.320 --> 0:12:58.600 But imagine having to come up with thirty fifteen letter 0:12:58.679 --> 0:13:01.400 words that all interact with one another. That's not a 0:13:01.400 --> 0:13:04.640 crossword though. That's my whole point. Okay, forget it. The 0:13:04.720 --> 0:13:06.439 other thing, the other way to look at it, Chuck, 0:13:06.520 --> 0:13:10.400 is that to show off crossword constructors use as few 0:13:10.760 --> 0:13:15.000 blanks as possible. Yeah, so then get those longer words. 0:13:16.679 --> 0:13:19.320 That's fine. Well, yes, we'll agree to that. Short words 0:13:19.320 --> 0:13:21.440 you're challenging. I think you're thinking of a word search. 0:13:21.920 --> 0:13:25.040 No I'm not. I know what I'm talking about. Will 0:13:25.120 --> 0:13:28.960 Schwartz please come to our aid and settle this once 0:13:28.960 --> 0:13:32.079 and for all. Oh well, ironically, I think we've been 0:13:32.120 --> 0:13:34.240 saying the same thing, just in different ways. I think. 0:13:34.240 --> 0:13:38.040 So Two, we need Jerry here to to interpret for us. Yeah, 0:13:38.120 --> 0:13:41.640 Jerry's not here today. That's why we're fighting. Let's finish 0:13:41.679 --> 0:13:45.319 this is as bad as our fights get. We should 0:13:45.400 --> 0:13:48.640 finish this part, I think before we go on and 0:13:48.720 --> 0:13:52.320 take a break. And that is when things got hot 0:13:52.360 --> 0:13:55.760 in the crossword community. Was the nineteen twenties in the 0:13:55.800 --> 0:13:59.839 United States, and it was a like a big d 0:14:00.400 --> 0:14:02.960 such that there were people that came out and said, hey, 0:14:03.000 --> 0:14:05.319 these cross It was sort of like these jazz cigarettes 0:14:05.320 --> 0:14:10.360 are ruining our culture, Like these jazz puzzles are ruining 0:14:10.360 --> 0:14:12.880 things because people are just spending all their time doing 0:14:12.920 --> 0:14:16.400 crossword puzzles. Uh, there was and in the in the 0:14:16.520 --> 0:14:19.600 UK there was in nineteen twenty four a headline from 0:14:19.840 --> 0:14:24.160 the Tamworth Herald that said crossword puzzles it should be 0:14:24.200 --> 0:14:28.360 a colon and enslaved America. And they were talking about 0:14:28.360 --> 0:14:30.840 how like men are wasted, it was a sinful waste 0:14:30.880 --> 0:14:35.280 of time, and that it was a fad that would vanish. Yeah, 0:14:35.280 --> 0:14:37.120 that was the New York Times that called this sinful 0:14:37.160 --> 0:14:38.600 waste of time. So yeah, there was a real like 0:14:39.520 --> 0:14:42.400 if you were if you consider yourself an intellectual, you 0:14:42.520 --> 0:14:45.240 definitely look down on crosswords in the twenties because it 0:14:45.360 --> 0:14:48.120 was just such a huge popular pop culture sensation. Yeah, 0:14:48.360 --> 0:14:51.840 there was a song that was called crossword Mama. You 0:14:51.920 --> 0:14:54.680 puzzle me demand in parentheses, but Papa is going to 0:14:54.760 --> 0:14:58.520 figure you out. It's like vaguely intimidating, it is it is. 0:14:58.880 --> 0:15:00.680 So it was like it was a really big deal. 0:15:00.720 --> 0:15:02.840 But um, yeah, as much as the New York Times 0:15:02.840 --> 0:15:06.360 and some of the other um of the tongue clucking 0:15:06.400 --> 0:15:09.960 set wished m crosswords didn't go anywhere. They just became 0:15:10.000 --> 0:15:13.240 more and more popular and eventually they did catch on. 0:15:13.320 --> 0:15:16.160 In Britain, Chuck, they have their own version called Cryptic Crosswords. 0:15:16.160 --> 0:15:19.520 Did you see anything about that? Yeah? The Cryptics are 0:15:20.960 --> 0:15:23.840 like the New York Times Crossword will have a handful 0:15:23.840 --> 0:15:29.200 of clues that are sort of deal more and they're 0:15:29.240 --> 0:15:32.520 more clever. There's more word word play, there's puns. They 0:15:32.560 --> 0:15:35.520 try to throw you off track, and apparently these in 0:15:35.880 --> 0:15:39.720 Britain are that's all they are. They are and they're 0:15:39.760 --> 0:15:42.600 really tough. They have really different rules than American ones. 0:15:42.640 --> 0:15:47.320 So one an example, I think whatsoever a clue. A 0:15:47.440 --> 0:15:52.000 clue was artist's phone hacked by terrible woman and the 0:15:52.080 --> 0:15:55.800 answer is Chagal who is an artist. But the reason 0:15:55.960 --> 0:15:58.080 Chigal is the answer is because in the middle of 0:15:58.200 --> 0:16:01.400 Chigal there's the word hag And if you take the 0:16:01.440 --> 0:16:04.640 word hag out of chical, you have call, which references 0:16:04.640 --> 0:16:08.080 a phone. Wow. Yeah, like my brain just melted out 0:16:08.080 --> 0:16:10.600 of my ear a little bit. Yeah. My deal with 0:16:10.680 --> 0:16:14.000 the New York Times is I I love a good 0:16:14.000 --> 0:16:19.160 clever clue like that. That's that I can figure out. Yeah, 0:16:19.200 --> 0:16:22.160 there's the best. I saw a friend American Crossroad. I 0:16:22.160 --> 0:16:25.400 don't know who wrote it, but it was it brings 0:16:25.440 --> 0:16:27.440 The clue was it brings out the child in you, 0:16:28.200 --> 0:16:32.200 and the answer was labor. M that's good. That's the 0:16:32.360 --> 0:16:35.800 that's sort of they have those routinely, Like, that's what 0:16:35.840 --> 0:16:38.560 I'm talking about. That's a good example of a really good, 0:16:38.560 --> 0:16:42.360 clever but gettable thing. You know, I really thought I 0:16:42.400 --> 0:16:44.040 was going to get a better response out of you 0:16:44.080 --> 0:16:46.600 than that for that one. Yeah, it's a great one. 0:16:46.840 --> 0:16:49.280 It brings out a child in you, labor like you 0:16:49.360 --> 0:16:52.000 just gave birth to a child. Yeah, but those are 0:16:52.240 --> 0:16:54.080 there were two or three of those in almost every 0:16:54.080 --> 0:16:57.400 puzzle I know that, but that one is particularly We 0:16:57.440 --> 0:16:59.840 need to start this episode over all, right, let's think 0:16:59.840 --> 0:17:02.240 of break and we'll go hatch this out. We'll be 0:17:02.320 --> 0:17:27.159 right back, all right. So we mentioned that the New 0:17:27.240 --> 0:17:29.960 York Times finally got their crossword puzzle years and years 0:17:30.320 --> 0:17:32.840 after they were all the rage in the twenties. And 0:17:32.920 --> 0:17:36.960 it was when we entered World War two. Enter once again. 0:17:37.160 --> 0:17:42.040 Margaret Petherbridge, now Margaret Ferrar said, wrote a letter to 0:17:42.040 --> 0:17:44.160 the New York Times, is you know what we're going 0:17:44.160 --> 0:17:48.000 into war? It's impossible too, and this is a real quote. 0:17:48.040 --> 0:17:50.840 You can't think of your troubles while solving a crossword, 0:17:51.320 --> 0:17:52.960 so like this, this is going to be a big 0:17:53.000 --> 0:17:56.119 distraction for everyone during this tough time. And the New 0:17:56.200 --> 0:17:58.640 York Times said, you know what, I think you're right, 0:17:58.760 --> 0:18:01.080 and why don't we hire you to do it and 0:18:01.200 --> 0:18:03.000 you can be our editor? And she said, I'd be 0:18:03.000 --> 0:18:05.600 happy to do that for twenty seven years, right, man. 0:18:05.680 --> 0:18:09.080 This was nineteen forty two, I think that they brought 0:18:09.080 --> 0:18:13.760 her on board. And Margaret Petheridge Ferrar had been or 0:18:13.840 --> 0:18:18.679 Petherbridge had been um a like involved in the crossword 0:18:18.720 --> 0:18:22.320 world since the beginning, since they were invented, and so 0:18:22.359 --> 0:18:24.560 who else would you bring on as the first editor 0:18:24.600 --> 0:18:28.480 of the New York Times Crossword? Yeah? And she did 0:18:28.520 --> 0:18:30.920 it for twenty seven years, like you said, which is 0:18:30.960 --> 0:18:34.720 eclipsed in time only by the current crossword editor, Real Shortz, 0:18:34.720 --> 0:18:37.240 who's been doing it for like, I think thirty something years, 0:18:37.240 --> 0:18:43.240 thirty two maybe. But yet she had a really huge 0:18:43.320 --> 0:18:47.480 impact on crosswords, and that's something I think a lot 0:18:47.480 --> 0:18:54.240 of people overlook. The impact that crosswords have on society 0:18:54.280 --> 0:18:58.040 and culture is really like under the radar, but it 0:18:58.200 --> 0:19:03.240 is really significant because what you choose as words and 0:19:03.440 --> 0:19:05.879 clues and the way that you put things has a 0:19:06.640 --> 0:19:11.560 there's millions of people all experiencing that same that that 0:19:11.800 --> 0:19:15.200 same puzzle, and so it's like you're planning seeds and 0:19:15.320 --> 0:19:17.639 millions of people's heads, and those millions of people go 0:19:17.720 --> 0:19:20.879 on to talk and interact and it has a really huge, 0:19:20.920 --> 0:19:24.160 far reaching effect, way more than you'd think of, Especially 0:19:24.160 --> 0:19:26.719 the New York Times crossword. Yeah, there's something that I 0:19:26.800 --> 0:19:29.399 realized what there's is that, uh, And I was just 0:19:29.560 --> 0:19:31.159 naive because I didn't know much about it and I 0:19:31.200 --> 0:19:33.560 hadn't seen the documentary wordplay at that point. Have you 0:19:33.600 --> 0:19:36.680 seen it yet? Yeah, it's great, but there's a real 0:19:36.720 --> 0:19:39.719 community around it. And once I started doing it. Um. 0:19:39.920 --> 0:19:42.680 I think I told you that Hodgeman and I were 0:19:43.040 --> 0:19:45.400 talking on the phone about something else and the crossword 0:19:45.440 --> 0:19:47.440 came up, and he had been doing it. He's he's 0:19:47.440 --> 0:19:51.040 a big words guy, no surprise, and does play scrabble 0:19:51.119 --> 0:19:54.760 with his wife and for years and years and decades, 0:19:55.720 --> 0:19:59.000 and so he's long done the New York Times. And 0:19:59.040 --> 0:20:01.800 I was like, oh cool, and we started talking about it, 0:20:01.840 --> 0:20:04.160 and I was so new to it. I was super excited, 0:20:04.440 --> 0:20:07.399 and I think that sort of rebbed his motor a 0:20:07.400 --> 0:20:09.399 little bit because I was, you know, I was a 0:20:09.440 --> 0:20:10.879 new guy that was like, thought it was the coolest 0:20:10.880 --> 0:20:14.160 thing ever. And so we started texting a lot about it, 0:20:14.240 --> 0:20:18.000 and then our friend Ben Harrison of the Greatest Gen Podcasts, 0:20:18.359 --> 0:20:20.360 Ben does it. So all of a sudden, I've got 0:20:21.200 --> 0:20:23.879 all these people like colleagues and other podcasters that we 0:20:23.920 --> 0:20:27.239 like text each other hints or you know. John was like, man, 0:20:27.280 --> 0:20:29.240 text me if you don't know a thing, and I 0:20:29.320 --> 0:20:31.399 was like, well, I could just look it up, and 0:20:31.440 --> 0:20:34.120 he said, text me. It's more fun. And I was like, right, 0:20:34.400 --> 0:20:38.520 there's a community here, yeah, and about it. I can 0:20:38.560 --> 0:20:40.919 just go lock myself in the basement with a candle 0:20:40.920 --> 0:20:43.440 and look it up. And I wasn't saying I shouldn't 0:20:43.440 --> 0:20:45.399 get in touch with you about it, but it's like, 0:20:45.400 --> 0:20:47.159 why would I bug you about it? And he was like, no, 0:20:47.320 --> 0:20:49.280 bug me. That's the whole point is it's like it 0:20:49.320 --> 0:20:51.639 can be a social thing even though it's a generally 0:20:51.680 --> 0:20:57.159 a solo pursuit. Absolutely, So Margaret for our kind of 0:20:57.200 --> 0:21:01.240 like coming to our live podcast shows. Huh yeah. So 0:21:01.440 --> 0:21:05.639 Margaret fer Our, she retired in I think nineteen sixty 0:21:05.680 --> 0:21:08.199 nine and a guy named Will Wang took over. And 0:21:08.280 --> 0:21:12.000 Will Wang um he had a huge impact on the 0:21:12.080 --> 0:21:14.639 crossword as well. He had a great sense of humor 0:21:15.000 --> 0:21:17.760 and so he got into that word play. Those puns 0:21:18.800 --> 0:21:21.960 kind of like a diversions, like making you think it 0:21:22.240 --> 0:21:24.760 was it's one thing when it's really another, the use 0:21:24.800 --> 0:21:29.159 of a word that's got to be a will whanger. 0:21:31.040 --> 0:21:35.080 He was replaced after eight years. He moved on and 0:21:35.240 --> 0:21:38.600 by a guy named Eugene te Moleska, and he was 0:21:38.640 --> 0:21:41.840 the editor from seventy seven to ninety three. And he's 0:21:41.880 --> 0:21:44.000 the one that I think a lot of people our 0:21:44.080 --> 0:21:48.480 age who don't like crosswords think of when they think 0:21:48.520 --> 0:21:51.399 of how much they don't like crosswords, because he was 0:21:51.480 --> 0:21:56.520 really being into opera, a former school superintendent, he knew Latin, 0:21:56.840 --> 0:22:00.480 and he expected the crossword puzzlers, the solvers, I say, 0:22:00.640 --> 0:22:03.800 to have the same like background in education and tastes 0:22:03.880 --> 0:22:06.560 that he did. And a lot of people don't, you know, 0:22:06.680 --> 0:22:08.960 like it's not like you have to hate opera, but 0:22:09.000 --> 0:22:11.960 if you don't really like opera, you're probably not at 0:22:12.040 --> 0:22:14.040 all into opera, you know what I mean. There's it's 0:22:14.040 --> 0:22:16.960 not like I'm kind of into opera thing, you know 0:22:17.000 --> 0:22:20.360 what I mean? And to expect everybody else to understand 0:22:20.400 --> 0:22:23.320 the clue that that you know, wordplay about you know, 0:22:23.440 --> 0:22:27.119 and some opera that it's not. I don't know. I 0:22:27.200 --> 0:22:32.160 just get the impression that the approachability of it really 0:22:32.200 --> 0:22:36.480 bottlenecked under Molaska. Yeah. And the one thing that John 0:22:36.480 --> 0:22:38.440 and I agree on is like, and this is true 0:22:38.440 --> 0:22:40.359 when we've designed our trivia games that we used to 0:22:40.440 --> 0:22:45.320 do or pub trivia, is that the best clues in trivia, 0:22:45.440 --> 0:22:47.840 we believe and in crosswords are ones that you can 0:22:47.880 --> 0:22:50.880 probably kind of figure out and even if you don't 0:22:50.880 --> 0:22:54.040 know the answer, and the worst ones are you know, 0:22:54.359 --> 0:22:57.679 this person wrote this book or this opera, and you're like, well, 0:22:57.680 --> 0:22:58.959 if you don't know it, you don't know it. It's 0:22:59.000 --> 0:23:01.680 a lot more fun to try and test your brain 0:23:02.280 --> 0:23:04.320 into seeing if you can kind of figure it out. 0:23:04.400 --> 0:23:07.840 And eventually you'll do that by getting other letters that 0:23:07.960 --> 0:23:11.040 intersect with that word, of course. But if if it's 0:23:11.080 --> 0:23:12.879 just like I don't know, it's kind of lazy to me. 0:23:13.680 --> 0:23:16.959 To me to be like, you know, just name this 0:23:17.000 --> 0:23:20.679 person who start in this movie. Yeah, lazy is a 0:23:20.680 --> 0:23:22.520 good way to put it. But on the other hand, 0:23:22.640 --> 0:23:26.200 like the converse of it is like you just really 0:23:26.240 --> 0:23:29.000 touched on an important thing of cross words, and that 0:23:29.280 --> 0:23:31.840 they are approachable and they do something to your brain 0:23:31.920 --> 0:23:35.960 that taps into a part of your mind and your 0:23:36.000 --> 0:23:39.960 intellect that's not just wrote memory, that where you can 0:23:40.119 --> 0:23:43.120 combine different things that don't seem to be at all combined, 0:23:43.200 --> 0:23:45.840 and it just makes it a really like pleasurable thing. 0:23:45.840 --> 0:23:49.600 A lot of people compare, especially the British version, crypto 0:23:49.640 --> 0:23:54.919 crosswords to reading like a miniature murder mystery and when 0:23:54.960 --> 0:23:56.720 you figure out who it was, it turns out you 0:23:56.720 --> 0:23:58.959 were right, your suspect was the one who did it. 0:23:59.000 --> 0:24:01.880 That that feeling of like I knew it. That same 0:24:01.920 --> 0:24:04.840 thing can come from like every single clue almost of 0:24:04.880 --> 0:24:07.359 a really well written crossword, and it's kind of the 0:24:07.400 --> 0:24:10.520 same thing where there's this discovery and you you also 0:24:10.600 --> 0:24:13.800 have that kind of rush of accomplishment for having figured 0:24:13.840 --> 0:24:17.119 it out without just knowing a fact that you learned 0:24:17.119 --> 0:24:19.320 in school. I think that was a really important point 0:24:19.359 --> 0:24:22.440 you made. Yeah, but also it's not you can have 0:24:23.040 --> 0:24:25.360 I wouldn't want to go all cryptic like a good 0:24:25.359 --> 0:24:28.720 crossword total And it's has a mix of both because 0:24:28.760 --> 0:24:31.560 it's also nice when you do know something and it's 0:24:31.840 --> 0:24:37.040 you know this man let voices carry and you know 0:24:37.040 --> 0:24:40.600 it's amy, you know what I mean? Did you get 0:24:40.640 --> 0:24:42.720 that one? I did? It was pretty good. But would 0:24:42.760 --> 0:24:45.080 you just made that one up? Wouldn't you have to? 0:24:45.160 --> 0:24:47.080 It's good chuck, but think about it, you're gonna have 0:24:47.119 --> 0:24:51.119 to fess up and make it two ends. Well. Sure, 0:24:52.359 --> 0:24:54.600 so that's a huge giveaway too, but that's part of 0:24:54.600 --> 0:24:57.439 the cheekiness of it. Yeah, no, I'm with you. But 0:24:57.560 --> 0:25:01.879 sometimes it literally just says this person started and whatever. Movie. Right. 0:25:04.080 --> 0:25:06.119 So there's one other one I want to give a 0:25:06.119 --> 0:25:10.879 cryptic crossworth that just blows my char So that clue 0:25:11.160 --> 0:25:16.800 is lineage and the answer is eagle. Can you figure 0:25:16.840 --> 0:25:19.840 it out? Well, I mean I know it because you 0:25:20.240 --> 0:25:22.199 this is something that I read. We'll pretend like you 0:25:22.240 --> 0:25:25.000 just figured it out and share it. No, how about 0:25:25.040 --> 0:25:29.520 you ask the audience, well, audience, do you know no? No, 0:25:29.600 --> 0:25:32.439 Well I'll tell you. It turns out that lineage can 0:25:32.480 --> 0:25:37.879 also be read as L in eg eage. Well, if 0:25:37.920 --> 0:25:41.280 you put L in eage, you get eagle. Yeah, I 0:25:41.280 --> 0:25:43.960 mean those are tough, man, That is really tough. You 0:25:44.040 --> 0:25:47.720 have to be so thoroughly British to be like, yes, 0:25:47.880 --> 0:25:51.240 I totally am tapping into this. Yeah, it's just it's 0:25:51.240 --> 0:25:53.080 just a different way of doing it, but it's the 0:25:53.119 --> 0:25:55.119 same thing, and I think it's neat that everybody's got 0:25:55.160 --> 0:25:58.479 their own way. Yeah. My Actually, let me amend that 0:25:58.640 --> 0:26:01.159 my least favorite clues and I will bail on a 0:26:01.200 --> 0:26:04.240 puzzle altogether. If the theme and we'll talk about the 0:26:04.240 --> 0:26:06.360 fact that they have themes in a minute, But if 0:26:06.359 --> 0:26:09.560 the theme is it's just you have to misspell this 0:26:09.600 --> 0:26:13.880 word in order for it to be right. I hate those. Yeah, 0:26:14.000 --> 0:26:16.240 you're like, if it's not a duke is a hazard theme, 0:26:16.240 --> 0:26:18.280 I don't want to have anything to do with that crossword. 0:26:19.359 --> 0:26:22.560 Back to will Schartz in the timeline of editors, because 0:26:22.600 --> 0:26:28.280 like you said, there's only been one, two, three, four, Yeah, 0:26:28.800 --> 0:26:31.280 I mean it's a good gig that, like the least 0:26:31.280 --> 0:26:34.840 tenard was what eight years, yeah, Will Wing. So it 0:26:34.840 --> 0:26:36.960 seems like a job that people like because they keep 0:26:37.000 --> 0:26:40.080 doing it forever. But Schwartz has been there for thirty years. 0:26:41.040 --> 0:26:43.719 There was no full time staff there besides himself when 0:26:43.760 --> 0:26:47.440 he came on, just a part time assistant, and he 0:26:48.320 --> 0:26:50.480 changed that had somewhat of a staff. All of a 0:26:50.520 --> 0:26:53.040 sudden he added the buyeline, which is a big deal. 0:26:53.080 --> 0:26:55.360 When you go to your daily puzzle. You see who 0:26:55.359 --> 0:26:58.640 wrote it and who constructed it, which is kind of cool. 0:26:59.280 --> 0:27:03.320 And before that there was no biolin at all. And 0:27:03.359 --> 0:27:04.920 then he said, you know what, we should also get 0:27:05.000 --> 0:27:08.119 like clues that like talked about people of color and 0:27:08.160 --> 0:27:13.480 talked about different types of cultures and more diversity overall. 0:27:14.000 --> 0:27:16.200 I'll also add brand names, which is something they never 0:27:16.240 --> 0:27:19.119 did before. Yeah, for sure, to just really kind of 0:27:19.160 --> 0:27:23.719 opened it up. He definitely did. He also started publishing 0:27:23.760 --> 0:27:26.560 from a lot of different people too, including teenagers. I 0:27:26.600 --> 0:27:30.320 think up to the Shorts era, only I think like 0:27:30.440 --> 0:27:34.320 sixteen teenagers had ever been published in the New York Times, 0:27:35.040 --> 0:27:38.560 And since he's been there, I think it's like sixty 0:27:38.560 --> 0:27:43.120 four now now that was six teenagers. Six teenagers. It's 0:27:43.119 --> 0:27:46.080 even less than I thought before. Yeah, six, and then 0:27:47.040 --> 0:27:50.640 during his tenure forty six. Wow, So I really cool. 0:27:50.800 --> 0:27:53.800 Screwed the pooch on that one, but the gist was 0:27:53.880 --> 0:27:58.000 still correct. One thing that is also correct is they 0:27:58.040 --> 0:28:02.000 do get progressively harder, and I was sort of wrong 0:28:02.000 --> 0:28:03.720 when I first started doing and I thought Sunday was 0:28:03.720 --> 0:28:08.560 the hardest. They get more intellectually challenging Monday through Saturday, 0:28:09.080 --> 0:28:12.159 and then Sunday's sort of like a midweek level, but 0:28:12.240 --> 0:28:14.840 it's just larger. That's what I saw about one hundred 0:28:14.840 --> 0:28:20.040 and forty clues. Usually, yeah, it's it's not lines. I know, 0:28:20.200 --> 0:28:23.720 not lines. It's not what I meant. Here's let's do 0:28:23.800 --> 0:28:27.040 this great example that Livia gave, because this is another 0:28:27.119 --> 0:28:32.280 kind of fun head teaser, brain teaser. So the clue sandwich, 0:28:32.400 --> 0:28:37.520 often given a twist, might be the Saturday clue for oreo, 0:28:37.880 --> 0:28:41.320 whereas the Monday version might just be Nibisco sandwich cookie. 0:28:41.640 --> 0:28:44.520 I saw that they start out easy on Monday and 0:28:44.520 --> 0:28:49.680 then get increasingly harder day by day because they assumed 0:28:49.800 --> 0:28:53.720 that the crossword solvers out there were still recuperating from 0:28:53.720 --> 0:28:56.520 the weekend morning, and that they were getting sharper and 0:28:56.560 --> 0:28:59.000 sharper as the days went on. And then you on Monday, 0:28:59.040 --> 0:29:01.680 you get to just blaze through one. No, no, like 0:29:01.720 --> 0:29:04.040 you're still hungover on Monday. So they made it easy 0:29:04.080 --> 0:29:05.800 on you, That's what I'm saying. And you get to 0:29:05.840 --> 0:29:07.720 blaze through it in ten minutes and feel good about 0:29:07.720 --> 0:29:10.680 yourself again, right exactly, and then throw up from having 0:29:10.720 --> 0:29:13.080 to focus on the little tiny print for an hour. 0:29:14.240 --> 0:29:16.080 But just to explain in case you don't do them 0:29:16.080 --> 0:29:17.840 at all, and you're like, I don't get the oreo thing. 0:29:18.280 --> 0:29:21.280 Sandwich often given a twist. People often twist the oreo apart. 0:29:21.720 --> 0:29:26.000 It is a cookie sandwich, and as Libya astutely points out, 0:29:26.040 --> 0:29:29.080 that also satisfies what you see a lot in crosswords, 0:29:29.120 --> 0:29:35.080 which is the short word with a lot of vowels, 0:29:35.120 --> 0:29:38.520 like once a week, Enya the New Age artist. Enya 0:29:38.600 --> 0:29:42.080 is a clue. She's never been She's been topical for 0:29:42.440 --> 0:29:45.760 thirty something years because of her name. It's really funny, 0:29:45.760 --> 0:29:50.440 and they're different ways of like describing the clue or whatever, 0:29:50.480 --> 0:29:53.400 but it's it's very funny. It's always like this this 0:29:53.480 --> 0:29:55.320 new ager or something like that, and so I see it, 0:29:55.440 --> 0:29:58.360 there's Enya. Yeah. Yeah, that's another thing too that I 0:29:58.360 --> 0:30:01.000 think you kind of referenced earliers. You know, you start 0:30:01.040 --> 0:30:04.360 to get a feel for the language of cross words, 0:30:04.360 --> 0:30:06.960 and sometimes some clues are virtually the same as others. 0:30:06.960 --> 0:30:10.400 There's only so many ways you can describe ye, So yeah, 0:30:10.440 --> 0:30:13.920 that'll start popping up, especially if it's a vowel heavy 0:30:14.080 --> 0:30:17.479 heavy word. We should talk about themes a little bit 0:30:17.480 --> 0:30:21.640 more though, right, sure, Well, they're themed. A lot of times, 0:30:22.840 --> 0:30:25.920 not always, but it seems like out of the seven days, 0:30:26.360 --> 0:30:28.000 I would say three or four of them are usually 0:30:28.040 --> 0:30:31.440 themed at least, and that is when there would be 0:30:31.480 --> 0:30:35.560 like it's usually like four or five of the clues 0:30:36.320 --> 0:30:38.840 have a theme, and then there would be an additional 0:30:38.880 --> 0:30:42.840 one that says blank blank blank is a clue and 0:30:42.880 --> 0:30:48.560 that it will say or a great clue to the answers, 0:30:48.720 --> 0:30:52.280 you know, four or seventeen, sixteen, and twenty four, So 0:30:52.440 --> 0:30:55.800 it'll it'll be a clue plus an additional thing that 0:30:55.960 --> 0:30:59.720 sort of helped describe what the theme might be. Like 0:31:00.080 --> 0:31:03.360 the theme the answer might be doubles, and that is 0:31:03.360 --> 0:31:05.760 also the theme of the other ones that you you know, 0:31:05.880 --> 0:31:08.200 hopefully got by that point. One of the other things 0:31:08.240 --> 0:31:13.080 I saw that make theme crosswords popular, especially among constructors, 0:31:13.160 --> 0:31:16.760 is that the theme answers are usually multi lettered see 0:31:16.760 --> 0:31:21.719 ten letters, and that's a big long string of consonants 0:31:21.760 --> 0:31:25.080 and vowels that you can use to branch other words 0:31:25.120 --> 0:31:28.600 off of the intersect with. So you'll have four or 0:31:28.600 --> 0:31:31.960 five theme words. So you've got four or five ten 0:31:32.080 --> 0:31:35.320 letter words right off the bat, but you don't have 0:31:35.360 --> 0:31:38.960 to come up with thirty fifteen letter words. So it's 0:31:39.040 --> 0:31:43.880 much more advantageous. Yeah, and like the example Olivia gave 0:31:43.920 --> 0:31:47.760 of a theme, they're very This is very typical winner 0:31:47.840 --> 0:31:52.160 of a preparing contest would be best sheller. And so 0:31:52.240 --> 0:31:55.640 the theme ends up being adding an h in other 0:31:55.720 --> 0:31:58.200 common terms to make it a different term. So, in 0:31:58.240 --> 0:32:01.520 other words, instead of best seller, it's sheller. Another one 0:32:01.560 --> 0:32:04.400 in that same theme would be Lothario's line in a 0:32:04.480 --> 0:32:08.400 single spar pick up sticks instead of pick up sticks. 0:32:09.040 --> 0:32:12.320 So themes like that I really enjoy. But the themes 0:32:12.360 --> 0:32:14.320 I don't like, or like I said, when it's like 0:32:14.760 --> 0:32:20.600 this is the word misspelled or something. Okay, thank gotcha. Okay, 0:32:20.960 --> 0:32:24.600 I'm getting on my crossword soapbox a little. I say, 0:32:24.640 --> 0:32:26.320 we take our second break and then come back and 0:32:26.360 --> 0:32:28.760 talk about how people out there who are like I 0:32:28.800 --> 0:32:31.000 like hearing about these crosswords. I'm gonna go try one. 0:32:31.320 --> 0:32:34.760 Wait wait, wait, because we're about to inform you how 0:32:34.880 --> 0:32:39.080 to solve them more efficiently, starting in just a minute 0:32:39.160 --> 0:33:06.040 or two after this moment, So the New York Times 0:33:06.280 --> 0:33:10.880 went so full bore into um, which is, by the way, 0:33:11.000 --> 0:33:15.960 is not sexual, kind of like balls out into crosswords 0:33:16.040 --> 0:33:20.200 that they actually have a crossword column, not just a crossword. 0:33:20.240 --> 0:33:24.280 They have a columnist dedicated to writing about crosswords. Yeah, 0:33:24.280 --> 0:33:27.959 her name's currently deb Amlin. Well that's probably always going 0:33:28.000 --> 0:33:30.240 to be her name from now on, but I'm saying 0:33:30.240 --> 0:33:33.800 the current columnists is named deb Amlin. Sure, and she's 0:33:33.800 --> 0:33:36.520 at the New York Times, and she's got some tips 0:33:37.000 --> 0:33:40.000 that she maintains that are they're pretty good if you 0:33:40.040 --> 0:33:42.640 want to start out learning how to kind of basically 0:33:43.720 --> 0:33:45.800 solve a crossword a little faster than you might have 0:33:45.840 --> 0:33:48.239 on your own. Yeah, for sure. And by the way, 0:33:48.280 --> 0:33:51.040 there are lots of fun blogs outside the New York 0:33:51.080 --> 0:33:54.160 Times too that that write kind of funny takedowns of 0:33:54.480 --> 0:33:59.320 the day's puzzle. Nice. But Amlin says to start by 0:33:59.360 --> 0:34:03.280 scanning for an the answers you definitely know for sure, Right, 0:34:03.280 --> 0:34:07.400 it's a good way to start. Yeah, take a guess sometimes, 0:34:07.720 --> 0:34:09.400 but use your racer, of course, I do mind on 0:34:09.440 --> 0:34:13.880 the app online version. And then once you get like 0:34:14.080 --> 0:34:17.239 the intersecting words, more things will reveal themselves. So it's 0:34:17.280 --> 0:34:19.040 fine to take a guess because you can go back 0:34:19.040 --> 0:34:21.479 and redo the word once you've realized that you were wrong. 0:34:22.480 --> 0:34:26.160 Another one she suggests is yours and Hodgeman's method working 0:34:26.160 --> 0:34:30.319 with another person. Yeah, via text or in person can 0:34:30.320 --> 0:34:33.880 be fun. Over the breakfast table. Sure, if you get stuck, 0:34:34.080 --> 0:34:36.600 just take a break. You don't have to finish this thing. 0:34:36.600 --> 0:34:39.200 It's not a competition, like you can walk away from 0:34:39.200 --> 0:34:41.799 it and come back. And oftentimes you'll do that kind 0:34:41.800 --> 0:34:45.320 of unconscious thinking, almost like sleeping on it without sleeping, 0:34:45.680 --> 0:34:49.560 and these things that just seemed totally impenetrable will suddenly 0:34:49.600 --> 0:34:52.960 seem clear to you with fresh eyes. That happens almost 0:34:52.960 --> 0:34:55.680 every time I do that. It's it's And I told 0:34:55.719 --> 0:34:59.080 Hodgeman that and he went, yeah, that's a documented phenomenon 0:34:59.120 --> 0:35:03.719 that happens. Yeah. Another one is that it's and this 0:35:03.800 --> 0:35:06.560 is very controversial, but everyone has their own way of 0:35:06.560 --> 0:35:08.239 doing it. There's no right way of doing it. There 0:35:08.239 --> 0:35:11.560 are some purists, I'm sure that do not cheat at all, 0:35:11.640 --> 0:35:14.080 and if they don't finish it, I guess they just 0:35:14.120 --> 0:35:16.920 don't finish it. I like to finish it. So here's 0:35:17.040 --> 0:35:20.800 what I do. I will do all my acrosses first, 0:35:21.440 --> 0:35:24.160 and then I'll do a check and it tells you 0:35:24.160 --> 0:35:27.040 what you've gotten wrong. Then I do all the downs, 0:35:27.600 --> 0:35:29.960 and then I do a check. Because I don't want 0:35:29.960 --> 0:35:32.239 to spend it. I don't have a like hours and 0:35:32.280 --> 0:35:34.319 hours a day to work on these things, and I 0:35:34.320 --> 0:35:36.200 want to finish them, so, like, I don't want to 0:35:36.200 --> 0:35:38.320 spend a lot of time trying to figure out something 0:35:38.560 --> 0:35:41.880 and drive myself crazy if I've gotten the A cross 0:35:41.920 --> 0:35:45.320 word wrong to begin with, because then you're just throwing 0:35:45.360 --> 0:35:48.239 yourself off. So I do a check one check down, 0:35:48.320 --> 0:35:50.920 one check across, And that's the only sort of cheats 0:35:50.920 --> 0:35:53.719 I'll use most times. Unless I'm just really stuck at 0:35:53.760 --> 0:35:55.839 the end and i can't get the last couple. Then 0:35:55.840 --> 0:35:57.719 I'll cheat, and I'll be like, all right, you know, 0:35:57.840 --> 0:36:00.640 because what you're doing is you're learning something. If you're 0:36:00.680 --> 0:36:03.400 if you're stopping three quarters of the way through because 0:36:03.440 --> 0:36:06.200 you like you refuse to cheat, then you might be 0:36:06.239 --> 0:36:09.239 missing out and learning something cool. So or you know, 0:36:09.760 --> 0:36:11.360 solve it your own way. If you want to be 0:36:11.400 --> 0:36:13.719 a purist and just not finish it, that's fine too. 0:36:14.440 --> 0:36:17.880 So um, I think that's great words of advice, Chuck. Yeah. 0:36:17.920 --> 0:36:21.240 Some other ones I saw are so when you're looking 0:36:21.239 --> 0:36:27.000 at the clue, the plurality of it. If the plurality 0:36:27.040 --> 0:36:29.920 if the clue is plural rather than singular, the answer 0:36:30.000 --> 0:36:32.520 has to be plural, So in that sense, if you 0:36:32.560 --> 0:36:34.560 see something that has a plural clue, you can just 0:36:34.600 --> 0:36:37.160 go ahead and add an S at the end right um. 0:36:37.320 --> 0:36:40.520 Same with tense, so if if the clue is past tense, 0:36:40.840 --> 0:36:42.920 you can add an eed right at the bottom of 0:36:42.960 --> 0:36:46.759 them of the the answer um. And that's a great 0:36:46.760 --> 0:36:48.680 way to fill up a couple of squares right off 0:36:48.719 --> 0:36:51.279 the bat too. And as you fill in other ones, 0:36:51.320 --> 0:36:55.040 say that are going across, and you're filling down answers 0:36:55.680 --> 0:36:58.040 with s's and eds, that stuff's going to fill up 0:36:58.080 --> 0:37:01.680 a lot faster and become clear. Yeah, we talked about 0:37:01.719 --> 0:37:04.279 the language of cross words, which you just sort of 0:37:04.320 --> 0:37:07.720 get more familiar with as you do them. Partner Whenever 0:37:07.719 --> 0:37:10.800 you see the word partner in there, it's usually linking 0:37:10.840 --> 0:37:14.080 words together. So the example that Livia gave was a 0:37:14.239 --> 0:37:17.440 partner of live. The answer would be learned because you 0:37:17.520 --> 0:37:21.640 usually here live and learn stuff like that one. They 0:37:21.680 --> 0:37:25.480 also will abbreviate words, but they say that they're abbreviating it, 0:37:25.600 --> 0:37:28.960 So like following the clue, it will be say abbr 0:37:29.120 --> 0:37:33.040 period or for short or in brief, or they'll actually 0:37:33.160 --> 0:37:37.319 put an abbreviation in the clue. So a clue of 0:37:37.480 --> 0:37:42.200 elephant group, as in GRP, the answer a GOOP because 0:37:42.320 --> 0:37:45.320 that's an abbreviation of Grand Old Party and the elephant 0:37:45.719 --> 0:37:50.640 group is the abbreviated group GRP. Does that make sense, Yeah, 0:37:50.640 --> 0:37:54.319 but not all abbreviations, like it's usually if it's something abbreviated, 0:37:54.320 --> 0:37:59.000 that usually isn't like group was abbreviated. If you see oh, 0:37:59.080 --> 0:38:01.920 good point, like what Libya put down is a great example. 0:38:01.920 --> 0:38:04.759 If you see VIP, that doesn't necessarily mean that the 0:38:04.800 --> 0:38:08.640 answer is going to be an abbreviation because VP is common. Yeah, 0:38:08.800 --> 0:38:15.520 people don't typically abbreviate group. Right. You'll also very rarely 0:38:15.560 --> 0:38:19.360 see the same word twice in a single crossword. Yeah, 0:38:19.800 --> 0:38:24.799 it's it's considered bad form among crossword constructors. Constructors also 0:38:24.840 --> 0:38:27.600 frequently give you fill in the blank clues as a gimme. 0:38:28.120 --> 0:38:31.160 So there's a blank and then the second word or 0:38:31.160 --> 0:38:35.680 something like that in a clue makes it probably pretty 0:38:35.719 --> 0:38:38.080 easy to figure out based on the number of letters. 0:38:39.160 --> 0:38:41.480 That's when you can start with. And then also I 0:38:41.520 --> 0:38:46.640 saw that you should start at the bottom right because 0:38:46.880 --> 0:38:50.799 the premises that constructors typically will start at the top 0:38:50.880 --> 0:38:53.000 left and by the time they make it to the 0:38:53.000 --> 0:38:55.279 bottom right, which is the end of the puzzle. They're 0:38:55.320 --> 0:38:57.520 they're tired and they've stopped being quite as clever, so 0:38:57.560 --> 0:39:00.680 you can figure out the clues in the bottom right easier. Yeah, 0:39:00.719 --> 0:39:04.279 I'd start with one and one. That's how I do it. Okay, Uh, 0:39:04.320 --> 0:39:06.359 there's some other fun ones, and I wish I would 0:39:06.360 --> 0:39:08.680 have looked up an example. But one that you see 0:39:08.719 --> 0:39:14.359 every single day is like, uh, word preceding, you know, 0:39:15.239 --> 0:39:17.799 cat and basket and it'll be a word that you 0:39:17.840 --> 0:39:21.480 often see linked up before cat in basket That isn't 0:39:21.480 --> 0:39:23.120 one because I can't think of one. Play cat in 0:39:23.160 --> 0:39:28.080 basket case, cat cat case in basket case. Okay, but 0:39:28.200 --> 0:39:31.680 that would be uh not proceeding. But yeah, um, so 0:39:31.719 --> 0:39:33.759 they'll do that a lot. Here's some things that I 0:39:33.760 --> 0:39:37.680 didn't know, which now I'm going to be better at. Um. Well, 0:39:37.719 --> 0:39:39.520 I did know this. If it's a question mark at 0:39:39.560 --> 0:39:42.160 the end of the clue, that usually means is probably 0:39:42.200 --> 0:39:45.920 a pun or some kind of wordplay, Like current events 0:39:47.000 --> 0:39:51.560 is really current events, so tides because tides have currents, 0:39:51.600 --> 0:39:55.360 it's an event. Yeah, then you're like, what's the fifth 0:39:55.400 --> 0:39:58.600 letter for well, and a lot of times the obvious 0:39:58.640 --> 0:40:01.319 answer that's wrong. We'll have the same. If they're really good, 0:40:01.320 --> 0:40:03.440 they'll have the same number of letters. Right, So you're like, 0:40:03.440 --> 0:40:06.440 it has to be news. It fits, yeah, exactly. But 0:40:06.520 --> 0:40:09.680 the ones I did not know was that if it's 0:40:09.719 --> 0:40:13.640 in a quote, then the answer is a synonym for 0:40:13.719 --> 0:40:16.600 a spoken phrase. And I sort of knew it was 0:40:16.640 --> 0:40:17.719 sort of like that, but I didn't know it was 0:40:17.719 --> 0:40:20.319 always like that. And then if it's in brackets, and 0:40:20.360 --> 0:40:21.759 I didn't know this at all. I never knew what 0:40:21.760 --> 0:40:25.000 the brackets meant. The brackets usually mean that the answer 0:40:25.120 --> 0:40:31.560 is nonverbal, right, like the example Olivia gives us, that's painful. 0:40:31.719 --> 0:40:36.800 In brackets, the answer might be grimace. Right. I didn't 0:40:36.800 --> 0:40:39.440 know the brackets one either. The thing I like about 0:40:39.480 --> 0:40:42.279 the quotes one is it's intuitive, Like I didn't know 0:40:42.320 --> 0:40:44.560 that that was a convention, but I know that I've 0:40:44.640 --> 0:40:47.200 figured that out, you know, plenty of times doing cross 0:40:47.239 --> 0:40:49.959 words to seeing those quotes. It just it's a really 0:40:49.960 --> 0:40:53.759 great convention, I think. And then the heteronyms, these are 0:40:53.800 --> 0:40:57.359 my favorite. These are the really clever ones where it's 0:40:57.480 --> 0:41:00.719 something that can be pronounced in two different ways and 0:41:00.880 --> 0:41:04.160 you're intuitively led down a path to believe it's one, 0:41:04.200 --> 0:41:07.319 and it's really the other. Um. So, the example that 0:41:07.400 --> 0:41:10.520 Livia found was kitchen drawer. So you're trying to think of, like, 0:41:10.600 --> 0:41:12.640 what's kitchen drawer? What could it be? What could it be? 0:41:13.520 --> 0:41:16.520 And the answer is a roma. So it's not kitchen drawer, 0:41:16.560 --> 0:41:20.040 but a kitchen drawer, as in the aroma draws you 0:41:20.040 --> 0:41:22.200 into the kitchen. It's such a great one. I know, 0:41:22.280 --> 0:41:24.200 I love that stuff. Not as good as labor, but 0:41:24.320 --> 0:41:27.560 still pretty good. Okay, so you said you're trying your 0:41:27.600 --> 0:41:30.520 hand at constructing puzzles. How's it going. Well? I mean, 0:41:30.600 --> 0:41:34.040 I've I've started the idea of trying. I'm trying to 0:41:34.040 --> 0:41:37.040 find a partner, asked Hodgeman, and he sort of didn't 0:41:37.040 --> 0:41:40.680 say anything back. So I think that was a soft bass. Yeah. 0:41:40.719 --> 0:41:44.239 Ben seemed a little more into it. And I wanted 0:41:44.239 --> 0:41:45.600 to see if I could get stuff. You should know 0:41:45.600 --> 0:41:47.719 when there as a clue, because obviously that would be 0:41:47.880 --> 0:41:50.680 another bucketless thing for us. That would be great. Oh yeah, man, 0:41:50.760 --> 0:41:54.040 can you imagine? Yeah, it'd be cool. Um so, uh, 0:41:54.560 --> 0:41:58.800 the The New York Times actually deb ammon Um wrote 0:41:58.840 --> 0:42:02.840 a or am and sorry. She hosted a blog post, 0:42:03.160 --> 0:42:06.560 a four or five part blog post that is really 0:42:06.640 --> 0:42:10.600 in depth that where she interviewed the people who actually 0:42:10.800 --> 0:42:14.200 edit and create the New York Times crosswords and how 0:42:14.200 --> 0:42:17.000 they do it. And it is not at all created 0:42:17.040 --> 0:42:19.279 the way that I thought they were created. Did you 0:42:19.320 --> 0:42:21.520 see that at all? I haven't looked at that yet. 0:42:21.560 --> 0:42:23.080 It's it's on my list because I know it's going 0:42:23.080 --> 0:42:26.280 to inform my process, but I've I've been kind of waiting. 0:42:26.560 --> 0:42:28.400 Is there like a I kind of thought there might 0:42:28.440 --> 0:42:31.040 be programs that help you sort of lay it out. 0:42:31.120 --> 0:42:33.960 They mentioned that they do use programs to kind of 0:42:33.960 --> 0:42:37.359 basically create grids and stuff like that more easily, but 0:42:37.400 --> 0:42:40.160 they don't use things like auto phil which will just 0:42:40.200 --> 0:42:43.080 populate it with words and then come up with suggested 0:42:44.400 --> 0:42:46.799 like clues or anything like that. They come up with 0:42:46.840 --> 0:42:48.960 them themselves, which you would hope with the New York 0:42:48.960 --> 0:42:52.680 Times crossword puzzle. But the way that they create this, 0:42:52.800 --> 0:42:56.719 and I think it's like almost like an assembly line 0:42:56.719 --> 0:42:59.160 if it's done the way the blog posts suggests, where 0:42:59.239 --> 0:43:02.160 one team will come up with the theme and they'll 0:43:02.160 --> 0:43:06.560 come up with the answers the words for that theme. Okay, 0:43:06.719 --> 0:43:09.719 so let's say you have five five different words that 0:43:09.760 --> 0:43:13.080 are the theme answers, and then that's it, they hand 0:43:13.080 --> 0:43:14.759 it off to the next people. The next people will 0:43:14.760 --> 0:43:17.839 create the grid and they have to figure out where 0:43:17.840 --> 0:43:21.080 to put those five theme answers in there. And once 0:43:21.080 --> 0:43:23.080 they have that done and they got they have the 0:43:23.080 --> 0:43:26.000 black squares in there and everything like that, they hand 0:43:26.040 --> 0:43:29.719 it off to the people who populate the grid with words. Um, 0:43:29.960 --> 0:43:31.920 you want to avoid three letter words. You want to 0:43:33.520 --> 0:43:39.480 definitely no more than no less than three three right, Um. 0:43:39.640 --> 0:43:42.359 So it's actually kind of hard to come up with 0:43:42.440 --> 0:43:45.680 words that are interesting, right, because those are your answers. 0:43:45.960 --> 0:43:49.319 And then after that, after the whole thing's been populated, 0:43:49.600 --> 0:43:51.560 they hand it off to the people who write the 0:43:51.560 --> 0:43:57.360 clues based on the words in the grids. The deposite 0:43:57.360 --> 0:43:59.360 of solving it. When you say day, though, do you 0:43:59.360 --> 0:44:02.759 mean is this when The New York Times is doing 0:44:02.760 --> 0:44:05.719 their own So yes, that's my impression. I think for 0:44:05.760 --> 0:44:09.240 the most part, if you write, if you create, sorry, 0:44:09.239 --> 0:44:12.200 construct your own crossword, you're doing every step of this. 0:44:12.920 --> 0:44:14.960 I don't know if they broke it down into teams 0:44:15.000 --> 0:44:17.799 of two to make sure that everybody was interviewed in this, 0:44:18.560 --> 0:44:20.840 or if they really do it assembly line style, and 0:44:20.960 --> 0:44:22.759 a team of two will create the theme. A team 0:44:22.800 --> 0:44:24.560 of two will create the grid, a team of three 0:44:24.600 --> 0:44:27.160 populates it with words, and a team of two does 0:44:27.600 --> 0:44:31.120 the clues, writes the clues. But it's it's really mind 0:44:31.120 --> 0:44:33.520 boggling how how it all comes together. It comes together 0:44:33.560 --> 0:44:37.480 in the opposite way that you you would solve the puzzle, 0:44:37.719 --> 0:44:40.040 which is one reason why Will Shortz. He was interviewed 0:44:40.040 --> 0:44:46.120 by Neil Conan and I Think Science Friday, where he said, like, 0:44:46.320 --> 0:44:49.960 people who are constructors are typically not good at solving 0:44:50.000 --> 0:44:51.920 the puzzles and vice versa. If you're really good at 0:44:51.960 --> 0:44:54.239 solving a puzzle, it does not mean you're gonna necessarily 0:44:54.239 --> 0:44:57.680 be good at constructing it. You know who's good at both? 0:44:58.000 --> 0:45:02.720 Who is manning the south key? Yeah? Because Manny retired 0:45:02.719 --> 0:45:06.320 from a medical practice in nineteen eighty three and got 0:45:06.640 --> 0:45:09.880 was really into it and was published in ninety four, 0:45:10.280 --> 0:45:13.279 and then since that time has created two hundred and 0:45:13.280 --> 0:45:17.160 fifty four New York Times crosswords to be the most 0:45:17.160 --> 0:45:20.520 prolific writer. I'm sorry, constructor, we keep saying that. Yeah, 0:45:20.560 --> 0:45:24.520 I know, it's tough to remember. So Will Shortz. When 0:45:24.520 --> 0:45:26.400 he started in ninety three, he was getting forty to 0:45:26.480 --> 0:45:29.680 fifty submissions of meet a week, mostly from people age 0:45:29.760 --> 0:45:33.440 fifty or over. Yeah, And as of April twenty twenty one, 0:45:33.480 --> 0:45:36.400 he started getting about two hundred submissions a week. That 0:45:36.440 --> 0:45:39.640 means two hundred different people went to the trouble of 0:45:39.640 --> 0:45:42.280 creating a crossword and sending it into the New York Times. 0:45:42.600 --> 0:45:46.200 And the age has declined tremendously to about the mid 0:45:46.239 --> 0:45:49.160 to late thirties today on average. And that's in large 0:45:49.160 --> 0:45:52.120 part because Will Shortz made a determined effort, like you 0:45:52.120 --> 0:45:57.400 were saying, to be way more inclusive in the crossword world. Yeah, 0:45:57.400 --> 0:45:59.400 and women get a little bit of a bump. I 0:45:59.400 --> 0:46:03.520 think twenty percent of submissions come from women, but about 0:46:03.560 --> 0:46:08.960 thirty percent of published puzzles or from women. And I 0:46:09.040 --> 0:46:11.920 was kind of under the impression that all of their 0:46:11.960 --> 0:46:15.160 puzzles were submitted, so I didn't know that anyone on 0:46:15.239 --> 0:46:18.680 staff was writing them. I'm curious of the breakdown there. Yeah, 0:46:18.880 --> 0:46:22.040 I am as well. I don't know, because they said 0:46:22.080 --> 0:46:24.400 that they get about two hundred submissions per week, but 0:46:24.480 --> 0:46:27.480 they're only running seven, so that means that the acceptance 0:46:27.560 --> 0:46:30.120 rate is about three to four percent, which would mean 0:46:30.160 --> 0:46:33.480 that they are accepting like they're running nothing but submissions 0:46:33.560 --> 0:46:36.640 rather than housemade ones. Yeah, this really made me pause, 0:46:36.680 --> 0:46:38.120 and I'm like, how much time do I want to 0:46:38.160 --> 0:46:40.880 put into something that I have a ninety seven percent 0:46:41.239 --> 0:46:44.560 chance of like failing. Well, you know, there's other places 0:46:44.600 --> 0:46:49.240 that run cross words aside from the Times and Pleasures 0:46:49.239 --> 0:46:52.160 would be more than happy to take us other pleasures 0:46:52.200 --> 0:46:54.160 do you derive just from having done so? I think 0:46:54.160 --> 0:46:56.320 it'd be a good even if it doesn't get published. 0:46:56.320 --> 0:46:58.800 That doesn't mean, you know, I wrote a great seventy 0:46:58.840 --> 0:47:02.000 show spec script that never did anything, but in my 0:47:02.040 --> 0:47:04.200 mind it lives as a real episode. I wrote a 0:47:04.239 --> 0:47:07.120 great Simpsons episode that it's right anything, and I love 0:47:07.160 --> 0:47:11.040 it too. Yeah, agreed. I'll tell you what people love though, 0:47:11.160 --> 0:47:15.680 is crosswords. And watch that documentary word Play, because you 0:47:15.719 --> 0:47:18.960 will see a lot of it about the American crossword 0:47:18.960 --> 0:47:23.640 puzzle tournament, which started in nineteen seventy eight. When crosswords 0:47:23.719 --> 0:47:25.920 kind of after the twenties and thirties, they didn't go 0:47:25.920 --> 0:47:29.239 away or anything, but they kind of laid a little 0:47:29.280 --> 0:47:31.520 more low until the late seventies and they really kind 0:47:31.520 --> 0:47:34.719 of picked up steam again. And the marketing director of 0:47:34.719 --> 0:47:39.240 a Marriott hotel in Stanford, Connecticut said, Hey, in the wintertime, 0:47:39.280 --> 0:47:41.799 no one's coming up here. So let's let's do a 0:47:41.800 --> 0:47:44.600 crossword puzzle tournament like an official New York Times thing, 0:47:45.080 --> 0:47:48.160 and get Will Schwartz to help us plant And they've 0:47:48.200 --> 0:47:50.680 been doing it there ever since, and it's I think 0:47:50.680 --> 0:47:53.560 it's in late March early April this year, and they 0:47:53.560 --> 0:47:55.600 get you know, close to a thousand people coming to 0:47:55.680 --> 0:47:57.759 this thing. Yeah, and you get a really good sense 0:47:57.760 --> 0:47:59.799 of what it's like in word play, like you were 0:48:01.160 --> 0:48:03.279 really a great Like if if this has been at 0:48:03.280 --> 0:48:05.919 all interesting to you this episode, go check out word Play. 0:48:05.960 --> 0:48:08.319 You will absolutely love it. Even if you're not into 0:48:08.320 --> 0:48:12.239 cross words. It's a great you know, um, social what 0:48:12.400 --> 0:48:16.239 is the word social connector bonder know, the type of 0:48:16.280 --> 0:48:20.840 documentary where it's like a little peak inside of Oh yeah, 0:48:20.840 --> 0:48:23.640 one of those, Yeah, one of those. It's worth seeing 0:48:23.680 --> 0:48:27.400 for sure. As far as the making you smarter, And 0:48:27.440 --> 0:48:29.600 this was something that you and I talked a little 0:48:29.640 --> 0:48:31.520 bit about. Like one of the reasons I started doing 0:48:31.520 --> 0:48:35.240 it is because I wasn't the impression that word games 0:48:35.920 --> 0:48:39.400 kept you from descending into dementia. And it kind of 0:48:39.400 --> 0:48:41.880 depends on the study. Some studies have sort of confirmed 0:48:42.280 --> 0:48:45.960 or at least backed it up. Some studies said there 0:48:46.040 --> 0:48:50.279 was no effect. Some studies say that it might just 0:48:50.360 --> 0:48:55.640 be the placebo effect happening. Other people say, like, these 0:48:55.800 --> 0:48:58.920 things are fine, but being like genuinely creative with your 0:48:58.960 --> 0:49:03.200 brain is better for staving off dementia. So I've read 0:49:03.239 --> 0:49:05.360 this stuff and I was a little disappointed, but I 0:49:05.440 --> 0:49:07.960 kind of figure it. It can't hurt, and it's can 0:49:08.000 --> 0:49:10.759 be a part of the recipe of keeping your brain sharp. Yeah, 0:49:10.760 --> 0:49:12.600 as far as I know, none of the studies where like, 0:49:12.680 --> 0:49:17.280 don't do crosswords, they're going to completely rot your brain. Yeah. Yeah, 0:49:17.080 --> 0:49:20.120 that one about the placebo effect I thought was pretty interesting. 0:49:20.200 --> 0:49:24.439 When they advertised the puzzle as a brain training people 0:49:24.480 --> 0:49:27.239 did better on IQ test than people who were in 0:49:27.239 --> 0:49:30.399 a control group and did the same puzzle, but it 0:49:30.480 --> 0:49:34.240 wasn't advertised as brain training. So I don't think it matters. 0:49:34.280 --> 0:49:37.120 If a placebo effect doesn't matter, it doesn't diminish it. 0:49:37.239 --> 0:49:39.960 You know, like if you can take a sugar pill 0:49:39.960 --> 0:49:43.840 and get the same result as taking a medication, like great, 0:49:44.200 --> 0:49:46.880 that's fantastic. I don't understand why everybody's always putting down 0:49:46.880 --> 0:49:49.400 the placebo effect. Yeah, that sugar pill probably didn't have 0:49:49.440 --> 0:49:52.799 side effects too. Well, it is sugar, so there's probably some. 0:49:53.000 --> 0:49:55.680 But you know, there was a study in twenty fourteen 0:49:55.719 --> 0:49:59.040 that found that if you were a crossword or scrabble 0:50:00.040 --> 0:50:02.960 it says expert, but I would even say enthusiasts, then 0:50:03.040 --> 0:50:08.040 you had a stronger working memory than the group compared, 0:50:08.120 --> 0:50:11.040 which was I think college students who had a seven 0:50:11.160 --> 0:50:15.640 hundred or better verbal on the SAT. Yeah, and apparently 0:50:15.640 --> 0:50:19.560 they're better at like VISU visuo. Can I say that right? 0:50:19.760 --> 0:50:21.920 I don't think so. I think that is right visuo 0:50:22.120 --> 0:50:29.160 spatial information and integrating verbal and visualus. Oh man, visual space. 0:50:29.560 --> 0:50:32.200 You're not gonna help me? Help you? Are you no? Vs? Information? 0:50:32.239 --> 0:50:36.399 How about that vs? Information in your short term memory? Jeez, 0:50:36.480 --> 0:50:40.280 I gotta go finish. I'm ironically pretty stumped on today's crossword, 0:50:40.280 --> 0:50:42.160 as you can tell. Oh yeah, have you been doing 0:50:42.160 --> 0:50:44.960 it while we've been talking? No, no, no, I made 0:50:44.960 --> 0:50:48.040 a little bit of time earlier, but I'll usually not 0:50:48.120 --> 0:50:50.960 do it all in one go, like the Monday through Thursday, 0:50:51.160 --> 0:50:54.719 I'm sorry, the money through Wednesday I can generally knock 0:50:54.719 --> 0:50:57.560 out pretty quick like Mondays. Sometimes you can knock those 0:50:57.560 --> 0:51:00.840 out in like eleven minutes, and that's super speed. Yeah, 0:51:00.880 --> 0:51:04.200 I've done that's my record. I think, Wow, that's impressive, man. 0:51:05.080 --> 0:51:07.600 But uh yeah. Shout out to Ben and uh John 0:51:07.640 --> 0:51:11.160 Hodgeman and Mark Gagliardi another podcasting friend who was who 0:51:11.200 --> 0:51:14.960 was an enthusiast. Nice, it's fun, fun doing this stuff. 0:51:15.280 --> 0:51:19.600 Shout out to all you constructors and solvers out there. Right. Yeah, 0:51:19.680 --> 0:51:21.920 well hope if I ever get my own byline, then 0:51:21.960 --> 0:51:24.240 you can bet stuff. You should know we'll be a clue. Awesome. 0:51:24.280 --> 0:51:28.520 I appreciate that big time. Chuck. Uh, since that is 0:51:28.600 --> 0:51:31.319 probably it, right, you got anything else? Yah? Nothing else? Well, 0:51:31.320 --> 0:51:36.399 then that means it's time for a listener mail. I'm 0:51:36.400 --> 0:51:41.799 gonna call this correction on animal stuff. Oh boy, this 0:51:41.880 --> 0:51:44.360 is from Daniel. This is a good correction too, because 0:51:44.400 --> 0:51:47.480 this feels like one of those things is just printed 0:51:47.520 --> 0:51:50.319 everywhere and everyone believes it's true. But apparently possums don't 0:51:50.360 --> 0:51:55.440 eat ticks. Yeah, okay, all right, fine, Hey guys, I'm 0:51:55.480 --> 0:51:59.480 writing because I was listening to the Possums podcast and 0:51:59.520 --> 0:52:02.960 I heard you repeat an old myth that was fact, 0:52:03.000 --> 0:52:05.320 and I wanted to set the record straight. The idea 0:52:05.360 --> 0:52:07.360 that possums eat thousands of six a year is a 0:52:07.360 --> 0:52:10.760 complete myth. It's based on a single study in which 0:52:10.960 --> 0:52:15.520 researchers placed one hundred larval ticks on many different animals, 0:52:15.640 --> 0:52:19.080 waited four days, then counted all the ones that fell off, 0:52:20.280 --> 0:52:22.200 the ones that did not fall off or assumed to 0:52:22.239 --> 0:52:25.680 have been eaten. Someone read that study assumed this was 0:52:25.719 --> 0:52:27.320 the same as the number of ticks they'd eat in 0:52:27.400 --> 0:52:30.240 the wild, and came up with the numbers that we heard. 0:52:30.880 --> 0:52:34.520 So is there anything out there that disproves it, or 0:52:34.640 --> 0:52:37.840 is this really just a critique of the quality of 0:52:37.840 --> 0:52:42.920 the study In the extrapolation Part two? Okay, more recently, guys, 0:52:42.920 --> 0:52:44.799 the study was done with possums in the wild and 0:52:44.840 --> 0:52:49.240 found no evidence that they ever eat ticks. They checked 0:52:49.239 --> 0:52:52.560 the stomach of many wild possums, couldn't find evidence of 0:52:52.640 --> 0:52:55.560 even a single tick eaten. Here's a link to an 0:52:55.600 --> 0:52:59.080 article on the study, and this is from Field and 0:52:59.160 --> 0:53:02.560 Stream mags. Then I'm not gonna argue with those guys. 0:53:03.840 --> 0:53:07.880 They carry guns. Yeah, they cover both field and stream. 0:53:07.960 --> 0:53:12.520 So just a couple of things. Number one, Daniel ruins everything. No. 0:53:13.640 --> 0:53:17.840 Number two, I still have plenty of possum pride, and 0:53:18.440 --> 0:53:21.319 it's fine. It doesn't diminish the possums one iota in 0:53:21.360 --> 0:53:26.920 my eyes. Nice try Daniel, No, I agree. I think 0:53:26.960 --> 0:53:32.759 it's like possums were great before the tick thing, so 0:53:33.120 --> 0:53:37.560 they're certainly great taking the tick thing away. Yeah, okay, 0:53:37.960 --> 0:53:40.960 fair enough. I can tell you that instagrammer is not 0:53:40.960 --> 0:53:45.040 gonna like this. Well, you know, what are you gonna do? 0:53:45.160 --> 0:53:47.960 Can't please everybody, No, you can't. If you want to 0:53:48.000 --> 0:53:50.400 be like Daniel and ruin something for us, or try 0:53:50.440 --> 0:53:53.400 to but fail at it terribly, you can do it 0:53:53.520 --> 0:54:01.000 via email to stuff podcast at iHeartRadio dot com. Stuff 0:54:01.000 --> 0:54:03.799 you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more 0:54:03.840 --> 0:54:07.799 podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 0:54:07.920 --> 0:54:09.760 or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.