WEBVTT - How 'Exploding Kittens' Founders Turned Their Best-Selling Card Game Into a Netflix TV Series and Mobile Game 0:00:07.200 --> 0:00:11.200 Welcome to Strictly Business Variety's weekly podcast featuring conversations about 0:00:11.200 --> 0:00:14.960 the business, media and entertainment. I'm senior business writer, TV 0:00:15.080 --> 0:00:19.400 and video games. Jennifer Moss Belan Lee, a former Xbox designer, 0:00:19.440 --> 0:00:22.680 and Matthew Inman, the award winning cartoonants behind the Oatmeal, 0:00:23.000 --> 0:00:26.080 launched the first Exploding Kittens card game in twenty fifteen 0:00:26.200 --> 0:00:30.640 via Kickstarter campaign and unexpectedly raised eight point seven million 0:00:30.680 --> 0:00:33.479 dollars for the initial game in the first thirty days 0:00:33.479 --> 0:00:37.040 of the campaign. Since then, they released nearly thirty tabletop 0:00:37.080 --> 0:00:40.560 games under the Exploding Kitten's Company brand and a handful 0:00:40.600 --> 0:00:43.040 of digital games, and it's sold more than thirty six 0:00:43.080 --> 0:00:47.080 million games globally. On Friday, Netflix will launch its Exploding 0:00:47.200 --> 0:00:50.839 Kittens TV series adaptation, which will coincide with updates to 0:00:50.880 --> 0:00:55.080 its Exploding Kitten's mobile game for the streamer, incorporating playable 0:00:55.160 --> 0:00:58.440 characters from the new show into the service. Here to 0:00:58.440 --> 0:01:01.280 talk about the inner workings at its own Kittens the company, 0:01:01.720 --> 0:01:04.959 and how their brand adapted its best selling tabletop game. 0:01:05.160 --> 0:01:08.960 Entering Netflix series and video game are founders ill Unle 0:01:09.319 --> 0:01:24.560 and matthew an Thank you both for joining me for 0:01:24.640 --> 0:01:27.880 the strictly business podcast. I'm really excited to speak to you, 0:01:28.480 --> 0:01:30.080 and I just kind of want to start off with 0:01:30.480 --> 0:01:33.000 each of you could lay out your current holes and 0:01:33.040 --> 0:01:35.000 then go a little bit into your background prior. 0:01:35.600 --> 0:01:40.720 Matt, you want to start sure, So at Exploding Kittens, 0:01:40.720 --> 0:01:46.000 I think my social title the chief creative officer the cartoonists. 0:01:47.040 --> 0:01:49.400 I'm an artist. I worked on the original game with 0:01:49.480 --> 0:01:53.320 the lawn. I should have had more coffee because I 0:01:53.320 --> 0:01:57.400 can't think of what else. Yeah. Yeah, And then on 0:01:57.640 --> 0:02:00.480 the Netflix series, I'm the showrunner. I wrote a bunch 0:02:00.480 --> 0:02:03.280 of episodes and did a little bit of everything there. 0:02:03.680 --> 0:02:07.200 My name is Alan. I founded the company with Matt 0:02:07.240 --> 0:02:11.240 about ten years ago. My current role is CEO, and 0:02:11.960 --> 0:02:13.760 I'm also one of the producers on the show. 0:02:14.000 --> 0:02:16.120 Did I forget to mention I write and draw the oatmeal? 0:02:17.120 --> 0:02:21.200 I did that little thing? Did I write draw the oatmeals? Ball? 0:02:22.520 --> 0:02:26.560 Okay, Now, for any of our listeners who might not 0:02:26.639 --> 0:02:30.080 be familiar, can you explain what Exploding Kittens is? 0:02:30.600 --> 0:02:34.480 Yeah, let's see. Okay, So Exploding Kittens, I mean, first 0:02:34.520 --> 0:02:36.519 and foremost, it's a card game, but it's also the 0:02:36.600 --> 0:02:39.120 name of our company and also now the name of 0:02:39.320 --> 0:02:43.480 a Netflix show. It started about ten years ago. Matt 0:02:43.520 --> 0:02:47.200 and I were kind of looking for a new exciting 0:02:47.200 --> 0:02:50.080 project to get involved in. I had this very rough 0:02:50.120 --> 0:02:52.440 idea for a card game that at the time was 0:02:52.480 --> 0:02:54.280 called Bomb Squad, and it was all It was like 0:02:54.400 --> 0:02:59.960 Russian Roulette with a deck of cards. Matt decided very 0:03:00.120 --> 0:03:03.520 wisely that the name Bob and Squad is no fun 0:03:03.680 --> 0:03:07.120 at all. And the way he phrased it was, if 0:03:07.160 --> 0:03:10.240 all you're scared of in this game are these explosive bombs, 0:03:10.240 --> 0:03:13.240 it's just so on the nose, it's so obvious. Who cares? 0:03:13.840 --> 0:03:15.600 What if instead the thing you were most afraid of 0:03:15.760 --> 0:03:17.840 was cute, adorable, fuzzy little kittens And we call the 0:03:17.880 --> 0:03:22.880 game Exploding Kittens instead, And that is literally how Exploding 0:03:22.960 --> 0:03:25.760 Kittens was born. We put it up on Kickstarter expecting 0:03:25.800 --> 0:03:29.400 to raise hopefully about ten thousand bucks. Instead we raised 0:03:29.400 --> 0:03:32.840 almost nine million and thirty days started a company and 0:03:32.919 --> 0:03:35.920 now are one of the largest independent game studios in 0:03:35.920 --> 0:03:36.320 the world. 0:03:36.600 --> 0:03:38.800 That anything you want to add to that story, as 0:03:38.800 --> 0:03:40.680 the saying that Bomb Squad was. 0:03:40.680 --> 0:03:46.839 A bad name, Yeah, I mean, I guess, I see, yeah, 0:03:46.920 --> 0:03:50.040 I get Alan and I were we kind of just 0:03:50.120 --> 0:03:51.640 met at that point too, we were on vacation with 0:03:51.680 --> 0:03:54.640 a mutual friend of ours and Alan had this poker 0:03:54.680 --> 0:03:57.800 deck that has just sharpie marks on it, and we 0:03:57.920 --> 0:03:59.920 played that game like the entire week while we are 0:03:59.920 --> 0:04:04.760 on vacation. And I kind of had wanted to make 0:04:04.800 --> 0:04:06.640 a game at that point, but I wasn't a game 0:04:06.680 --> 0:04:11.520 designer and I didn't really have one. And for our 0:04:11.560 --> 0:04:13.840 first game, it's still is our I think it's one 0:04:13.880 --> 0:04:15.920 of the best things we've ever done in terms of gameplay, Like, 0:04:15.960 --> 0:04:19.680 it's so fun, it's such a satisfying and unique game mechanic, 0:04:20.040 --> 0:04:22.599 this sort of idea that you play until it's last 0:04:22.600 --> 0:04:26.480 person standing. And yeah, and I was able to kind 0:04:26.480 --> 0:04:31.400 of translate comics into cards back then, and that that 0:04:31.400 --> 0:04:32.680 really helped us in the beginning too. 0:04:33.400 --> 0:04:36.039 And Matt literally wrote a one panel comic for every 0:04:36.120 --> 0:04:38.480 card in the game. I showed up with a poker deck. 0:04:38.520 --> 0:04:41.000 Here's the King, the Queen, the aces et, cetera. And 0:04:41.080 --> 0:04:45.160 Matt said, okay, so fifty two cards. I will draw 0:04:45.640 --> 0:04:48.919 fifty two to one panel hilarious comics and that will. 0:04:48.720 --> 0:04:49.200 Be the game. 0:04:49.520 --> 0:04:54.080 And yeah, that whole task, what was that? Matt? Ten days, 0:04:54.120 --> 0:04:55.799 two weeks somewhere in that timeframe. 0:04:56.480 --> 0:04:58.440 We did it fast, and our company came together in 0:04:58.480 --> 0:05:01.440 like six weeks from hey, this is Bomb Squad the 0:05:01.520 --> 0:05:06.120 poker game to ek explaining kittens on the Internet. You know, 0:05:06.279 --> 0:05:07.679 in a very short period of time. 0:05:08.000 --> 0:05:11.479 Yeah, it was Yeah, that was that was fun. That 0:05:11.600 --> 0:05:14.800 was literally us in a garage in the back of 0:05:14.839 --> 0:05:17.960 my house. And now there's about one hundred people working 0:05:18.000 --> 0:05:20.760 at the company and we have a big studio and 0:05:21.160 --> 0:05:23.280 the biggest problem is remembering everybody's name. 0:05:24.600 --> 0:05:28.800 And now you've released nearly thirty games, a handful of 0:05:28.960 --> 0:05:34.440 digital games, including the Netflix Exploding mobile game. 0:05:34.520 --> 0:05:37.240 Yes, that's correct. Yeah, So I'd love. 0:05:37.120 --> 0:05:40.080 To know what the process becomes at that point, from 0:05:40.240 --> 0:05:43.719 making a card game to making a digital game to 0:05:43.839 --> 0:05:46.960 now making a show. And at what point Netflix got involved, 0:05:46.960 --> 0:05:49.920 if they approached you, if you had talks with them, 0:05:50.080 --> 0:05:53.000 what the kind of flow and order of events if 0:05:53.040 --> 0:05:54.000 you remember. 0:05:54.120 --> 0:05:56.000 Yeah, I can, I'll jump to the Netflix bit because 0:05:56.000 --> 0:05:59.680 that's where I'm the most relevant. So in twenty nineteen, 0:06:00.400 --> 0:06:04.760 we received an investment from Peter Turnham and to kind 0:06:04.760 --> 0:06:08.920 of expand our our IP and he connected us with 0:06:09.680 --> 0:06:13.799 Greg Daniels and might Judge and you know, up until 0:06:13.800 --> 0:06:16.880 that point, it really wasn't terribly interested in making Exploding 0:06:16.920 --> 0:06:19.560 Kitts into a TV series. It just wasn't something that 0:06:19.640 --> 0:06:22.599 struck me as television material. I mean, it's a card game, 0:06:22.920 --> 0:06:25.280 where as we just said, each card is its own 0:06:25.320 --> 0:06:28.280 non secuity. It's they're all just independent jokes, don't really 0:06:28.279 --> 0:06:31.400 a story. It'sn't really through line. It would be like 0:06:31.440 --> 0:06:33.320 if I told you we're going to make connect for 0:06:33.640 --> 0:06:36.960 into a movie, you'd be like, God, stop, you know, please, 0:06:38.320 --> 0:06:44.000 don't you know? And what ended up happening was started 0:06:44.040 --> 0:06:47.240 to think kind of in earnest about, regardless of the 0:06:47.279 --> 0:06:49.039 card game, what's the show that I would want to watch? 0:06:49.560 --> 0:06:52.800 And that is where I kind of flipped through an 0:06:52.800 --> 0:06:56.200 old notebook and started schooling away. And I'd always kind 0:06:56.200 --> 0:06:57.640 of had this idea in the back of my mind 0:06:57.680 --> 0:07:02.440 of some sort of cat X related show and hear 0:07:02.440 --> 0:07:04.000 me out. So when I had a girlfriend in my 0:07:04.000 --> 0:07:07.479 twenties where she had a cat who kind of simultaneously 0:07:07.520 --> 0:07:09.920 behaved like God in the house and also like Satan. 0:07:10.200 --> 0:07:12.040 I think this is very reliable for most pet owners. 0:07:12.160 --> 0:07:13.720 Your cat things, you own the house, but they also 0:07:14.280 --> 0:07:18.080 seem to rule the underworld as well, so again, when 0:07:18.120 --> 0:07:20.200 I thought, how can I make Exploding Kittens into a 0:07:20.200 --> 0:07:22.240 TV series that I want to watch without ever having 0:07:22.240 --> 0:07:25.120 played the game, that's where this idea of God and 0:07:25.160 --> 0:07:29.520 the Devil being trapped in cat bodies on Earth came from. 0:07:30.160 --> 0:07:33.080 So what I did was most television pitches, you know, 0:07:33.120 --> 0:07:35.280 you have your little index cards and you nervously stand 0:07:35.320 --> 0:07:38.120 in a room and try to recite your show in 0:07:38.120 --> 0:07:41.880 front of a bunch of people. I don't really drive 0:07:42.240 --> 0:07:44.440 that way, and I can draw, So I thought I 0:07:44.480 --> 0:07:46.760 would draw my pitch in the form of a comic 0:07:46.880 --> 0:07:49.000 that you could read like it's a It's about a 0:07:49.000 --> 0:07:51.000 four minute read, like a tiny graphic novel, so you 0:07:51.000 --> 0:07:54.400 could you read my show. We pitched it to seven 0:07:54.480 --> 0:07:58.360 studios and six of them made offers on it right away, 0:07:59.040 --> 0:08:01.120 and that's when kind of realized, I think I doesinthe 0:08:01.200 --> 0:08:05.240 really really good here. That's how we connected eventually with Netflix. 0:08:05.760 --> 0:08:09.520 And at the time Netflix was this was like twenty nineteen, 0:08:09.560 --> 0:08:12.840 twenty twenty. Netflix was investing heavily in animation, I think, 0:08:13.040 --> 0:08:14.520 and I think they doubled down on it because of 0:08:14.520 --> 0:08:18.240 the pandemic, because you couldn't shoot anything live action, and 0:08:18.280 --> 0:08:20.120 that's that's where it's the when you get touts home. 0:08:20.800 --> 0:08:24.000 Just to add the even before that, like all we 0:08:24.080 --> 0:08:26.880 ever really aspired to do, at least at first, was 0:08:26.960 --> 0:08:29.160 let's make a bunch of card games. Like I really 0:08:29.200 --> 0:08:32.800 like designing games, Matt really likes drawing games, come together 0:08:33.040 --> 0:08:36.640 and we were able to create these really fun, exciting 0:08:36.679 --> 0:08:39.400 things under the premise that, like, none of these games 0:08:39.400 --> 0:08:42.400 should be entertaining. All every game we make should make 0:08:42.480 --> 0:08:45.720 the people you're playing with entertaining instead. And armed with that, 0:08:46.679 --> 0:08:49.080 we're able to create like some of the some of 0:08:49.080 --> 0:08:51.320 the best selling games ever. It's really it's been a 0:08:51.360 --> 0:08:55.880 it's been a really fun experience. And then once once 0:08:55.960 --> 0:09:00.440 the Netflix show really solidified, like once it was like, oh, 0:09:00.480 --> 0:09:05.839 we're doing this, Matt started to lead his team, the 0:09:07.600 --> 0:09:10.160 show team, as far as like, all right, well, here's 0:09:10.160 --> 0:09:12.360 what these characters sound like, here's how they behave, here's 0:09:12.400 --> 0:09:15.160 how they move, here's here's what the world actually looks 0:09:15.200 --> 0:09:17.760 like instead of just a bunch of static images. And 0:09:17.920 --> 0:09:21.960 armed with that, we were able to start saying, okay, well, 0:09:22.440 --> 0:09:25.280 now this is a world instead of just a bunch 0:09:25.280 --> 0:09:27.280 of comics, this is an actual world. So that means 0:09:27.760 --> 0:09:31.840 we can start making more games, more moving games. Right, 0:09:31.880 --> 0:09:36.319 so like digital games, mobile games, VR games, we can 0:09:36.360 --> 0:09:40.800 start exploring where else these characters might live and how 0:09:41.200 --> 0:09:44.240 our audience might be able to experience them. And so 0:09:44.280 --> 0:09:46.160 it was like this neat little one two punch, like, 0:09:46.520 --> 0:09:50.640 let's start by building a really strong audience, building simple, fast, 0:09:50.720 --> 0:09:54.320 easy fun party games. Expand that into the world of TV, 0:09:54.679 --> 0:09:58.440 and then now we can expand that whole ip outwards 0:09:59.400 --> 0:10:01.280 because we know what it looks and sounds like. 0:10:02.400 --> 0:10:05.480 As you became more and more familiar with the tabletop 0:10:05.520 --> 0:10:07.480 game and that's where you started with and that's where 0:10:07.480 --> 0:10:10.160 you grew, and that's where the success was. Going into 0:10:10.200 --> 0:10:14.679 TV and going into gaming digital. What did you all 0:10:14.720 --> 0:10:17.400 have to do to educate yourselves on understanding those worlds, 0:10:17.600 --> 0:10:20.200 the business model of those things, and expanding the brand 0:10:20.280 --> 0:10:23.280 into those sections where you had been strictly in tabletop 0:10:23.280 --> 0:10:23.920 gaming before. 0:10:24.200 --> 0:10:25.959 Well, I actually on once you go first you worked 0:10:25.960 --> 0:10:28.840 at the Xbox, you can talk about all kinds off there. 0:10:29.280 --> 0:10:34.000 I think we knew, like all of us from hearing 0:10:34.000 --> 0:10:37.280 all the stories, that there's not a huge amount of 0:10:37.280 --> 0:10:40.160 money in season one. Season one is like establishing yourself. 0:10:40.200 --> 0:10:42.840 It's building the team figuring out what this thing looks like, 0:10:43.160 --> 0:10:45.920 trying your best to build an audience, investing heavily in marketing, 0:10:45.960 --> 0:10:48.760 making sure you get the word out. It's really once 0:10:48.840 --> 0:10:51.320 that thing takes off, which we really hope this does 0:10:51.360 --> 0:10:54.600 because we've worked so hard at it. It's once that 0:10:54.640 --> 0:10:58.360 takes off that you have more leverage, that you get 0:10:58.400 --> 0:11:04.160 to start making more demands. Essentially. However, getting to that point, 0:11:04.320 --> 0:11:06.320 there were a few things that were really important to us. 0:11:06.400 --> 0:11:11.520 A typical TV deal, the network has a lot of 0:11:11.760 --> 0:11:16.400 rules about merchandising, about what the show is called, about 0:11:16.480 --> 0:11:19.160 how you talk about the show, and we were very 0:11:19.200 --> 0:11:22.000 fortunate that we could walk into those deals saying, look, 0:11:22.559 --> 0:11:25.160 this has to be called Exploding Kittens, has to has 0:11:25.200 --> 0:11:28.319 to has to, which is very important to us. That's 0:11:28.360 --> 0:11:30.920 the brand recognition. They totally agreed. They were like, yes, 0:11:31.080 --> 0:11:32.960 has to, that's where the audience is going to come from. 0:11:33.160 --> 0:11:35.040 You've got one of the best selling games in the world, 0:11:35.160 --> 0:11:38.199 So cool, we're all in agreement there. It's good for them, 0:11:38.240 --> 0:11:41.359 it's good for us. That was a really nice negotiation 0:11:41.520 --> 0:11:43.840 point that was not contentious at all. But then the 0:11:43.840 --> 0:11:47.560 second one was merchandising, which is like, look, We're going 0:11:47.640 --> 0:11:50.600 to be the best partners ever and anything that comes 0:11:50.600 --> 0:11:53.839 out of the show, out of these characters, we're all 0:11:53.880 --> 0:11:57.280 going to participate in that. But it is very important 0:11:57.280 --> 0:12:01.040 to us that you acknowledge we are a pre existing 0:12:01.120 --> 0:12:04.440 company that only does merchandising. All we do is put 0:12:04.440 --> 0:12:06.800 out card games out into the world, So we have 0:12:06.880 --> 0:12:09.040 to be able to keep those things in their own 0:12:09.040 --> 0:12:12.440 little box in order that we can keep running the company, 0:12:12.520 --> 0:12:15.200 keep coming up with new ideas, and keep using those 0:12:15.280 --> 0:12:18.400 ideas to generate new IP and new shows for Netflix. 0:12:18.480 --> 0:12:22.600 So everyone was very good about that. But it was 0:12:22.679 --> 0:12:27.120 non traditional, right, Like the standard version is all merchandising 0:12:27.120 --> 0:12:29.760 that comes out of a show gets split up between 0:12:29.800 --> 0:12:32.200 all the partners, and we had to cut out or 0:12:32.240 --> 0:12:35.120 carve out pre existing ips and new games that we 0:12:35.280 --> 0:12:38.280 create that weren't associated with the show. That was a 0:12:38.280 --> 0:12:40.679 little bit of learning on both sides, right. Nobody was 0:12:40.760 --> 0:12:44.720 used to that, but that's what that's what we clung 0:12:44.760 --> 0:12:48.000 onto because it was so important and we knew that 0:12:48.080 --> 0:12:50.880 as long as we can hold on to that, we 0:12:50.880 --> 0:12:53.760 can then learn the rest of the process. Working closely 0:12:53.800 --> 0:12:56.440 with the networks, working closely with Netflix to get the 0:12:56.440 --> 0:12:57.480 best deal for everybody. 0:12:57.880 --> 0:13:00.360 We'll be back to work from the Exploding Kittens seen 0:13:00.520 --> 0:13:01.360 actor this break. 0:13:06.720 --> 0:13:09.319 Yeah, so kind of going through card games to digital 0:13:09.360 --> 0:13:11.240 I know Alons kind of got a rich background, and 0:13:11.280 --> 0:13:13.040 you know, he worked was a chief design officer at 0:13:13.040 --> 0:13:14.600 the Xbox, so that there was a lot of stuff 0:13:14.600 --> 0:13:18.520 that fit there for him. For me going from card 0:13:18.520 --> 0:13:24.120 game to television, I had I've been working in comics forever, 0:13:24.200 --> 0:13:27.680 which is very helpful because when you draw storyboards, which 0:13:27.720 --> 0:13:31.400 become animatics, it's become cartoons animatics fen who doesn't know 0:13:31.400 --> 0:13:33.120 they're They're kind of like a really crappy cartoon. They're 0:13:33.160 --> 0:13:35.600 black and white. Usually the actors aren't even there yet, 0:13:35.640 --> 0:13:37.920 so it's all this rough. I've done a ton of 0:13:37.920 --> 0:13:40.280 storyboarding just in my career as a cartoonist, so I 0:13:40.280 --> 0:13:42.680 had some skills there. And then I'd worked in elimination 0:13:42.920 --> 0:13:44.560 for a couple of years on their movies, did some 0:13:44.600 --> 0:13:46.720 punch up on their movies, so I had some experience there. 0:13:47.600 --> 0:13:49.320 That being said, there was a lot of new disciplines 0:13:49.360 --> 0:13:53.600 to learn. You know, writing a still web comic on 0:13:53.640 --> 0:13:58.319 the Internet is very different from dealing with actors, writers, 0:13:58.320 --> 0:14:02.959 sound design, fully score. There's a whole kind of arsenal thing. 0:14:03.080 --> 0:14:06.480 So past four and a half years has been it's 0:14:06.480 --> 0:14:08.560 like the greatest film class they've ever gone to, you know, 0:14:08.600 --> 0:14:10.800 in a way, because I got to actively learn while 0:14:10.800 --> 0:14:14.960 making show. The other thing that was probably where Robber 0:14:15.040 --> 0:14:17.760 Mett road in terms of difficulty was when you make 0:14:17.760 --> 0:14:20.840 a web comic, people hear when they read your comic, 0:14:20.840 --> 0:14:22.040 they hear what ever voice they want to hear in 0:14:22.040 --> 0:14:23.800 their head, and usually it's a very funny voice. It's 0:14:23.840 --> 0:14:28.120 well written television or animation. They hear whatever voice the 0:14:28.120 --> 0:14:31.520 actor is saying and or the way the character is moving, 0:14:31.560 --> 0:14:33.520 and it can all break a joke or make a joke. 0:14:34.000 --> 0:14:37.040 So that was where I had to be really diligent 0:14:37.200 --> 0:14:40.600 and good about make sure the comedy comes through because 0:14:40.600 --> 0:14:42.720 there's a ton of funny jokes that are written in script, 0:14:42.720 --> 0:14:44.320 and then when they're own, you know, they're performed, they 0:14:44.320 --> 0:14:48.320 can kind of change or breakdown that comes with you. 0:14:48.400 --> 0:14:50.440 That's the same with the art, you know, creating really 0:14:50.520 --> 0:14:53.160 rich style guides that I drop people a certain way. 0:14:53.320 --> 0:14:55.520 You know, I had kind of a signature, kind of 0:14:55.560 --> 0:14:59.240 inbred frog eyed look to everything that I drop, and 0:14:59.360 --> 0:15:01.440 I needed to make sure that in bred frog eyed 0:15:01.520 --> 0:15:04.400 was well ingrained into one in Netflix. It was you know, 0:15:04.480 --> 0:15:06.840 it's on my office door talking. 0:15:06.520 --> 0:15:09.560 About the voices that brings me a question about passing 0:15:09.640 --> 0:15:12.440 and how involved you all were in that process. If 0:15:12.480 --> 0:15:14.880 Netflix had ideas right off the top, if you all 0:15:14.920 --> 0:15:17.360 had ideas and kind of what it was based on, 0:15:17.400 --> 0:15:21.080 and also fans of exploding kittens versus people are like, 0:15:21.120 --> 0:15:22.800 I have no idea what this is. I've never heard 0:15:22.840 --> 0:15:25.200 of this before, and kind of that barrier to entry 0:15:25.240 --> 0:15:26.240 maybe with certain talent. 0:15:26.960 --> 0:15:30.920 We you know, initially Netflix and me were aligned that 0:15:30.960 --> 0:15:33.840 we wanted to go after famous people, you know, celebrities, 0:15:34.360 --> 0:15:37.360 and we did. We went after famous people and celebrities 0:15:37.400 --> 0:15:41.600 and what do you get any and they're busy, you know, 0:15:41.680 --> 0:15:43.560 like I mean that in a good way because it's 0:15:43.600 --> 0:15:47.400 like a cat themed you know, it'd be like we're 0:15:47.400 --> 0:15:50.080 making a movie out of them. I don't know, pick 0:15:50.120 --> 0:15:53.640 the worst they imaginable. Let me paraphrase, paraphrase, I'm I'm 0:15:53.640 --> 0:15:55.880 blowing this right now. We went out to the first 0:15:55.880 --> 0:15:58.000 person who went out to to Boyce Godcat was Peter 0:15:58.080 --> 0:16:00.560 d English and which had been amazing. I love him 0:16:00.600 --> 0:16:03.400 and he was super interested, but he was shooting a movie. 0:16:03.840 --> 0:16:06.600 And then the next person we went after was calling 0:16:06.680 --> 0:16:10.920 Farrell again amazing, great shooting a movie. And then they 0:16:11.000 --> 0:16:12.760 both got a bunch of awards. I think called Ferrol 0:16:12.840 --> 0:16:14.880 literally maybe got nominated for an Oscar maybe one I 0:16:14.920 --> 0:16:16.960 don't remember, and I was like, yeah, it's probably good. 0:16:17.080 --> 0:16:19.080 You turned down the whole cat card game idea. You 0:16:19.080 --> 0:16:23.000 were clearly busy something that matters. But sort of through 0:16:23.040 --> 0:16:25.400 that process, what we kind of realized was we wanted 0:16:25.440 --> 0:16:28.320 people who were funny. We don't care who they are 0:16:28.480 --> 0:16:32.000 in terms of celebrity. So that's why we ended up 0:16:32.000 --> 0:16:34.560 with like, for example, a good example of this, Mark 0:16:34.600 --> 0:16:37.880 brooksh who plays the dad on the show. He plays Marv. 0:16:38.240 --> 0:16:39.880 He's the voice. He might not know his name, but 0:16:39.920 --> 0:16:41.200 if you saw him, you know who he is. He 0:16:41.240 --> 0:16:43.960 was in the office. He also played the energy vampire 0:16:44.000 --> 0:16:46.720 in What We Do in the Shadows, And that's the 0:16:46.840 --> 0:16:48.480 kind of a lack of better word, black of the 0:16:48.520 --> 0:16:51.000 energy we wanted from our characters was less about can 0:16:51.040 --> 0:16:53.800 we shove Wesley Snipes in here. I don't know why 0:16:53.800 --> 0:16:56.120 I picked him. I like him, but whatever, that's really 0:16:56.120 --> 0:17:00.000 celebrity I can think of right now, Wesley Snipe versus 0:17:00.360 --> 0:17:03.040 someone that maybe isn't quite as well known, but their 0:17:03.080 --> 0:17:06.280 ability to perform a joke into a microphone was so good. 0:17:06.400 --> 0:17:08.639 Tom Ellis is that way to shoo him. They were 0:17:08.680 --> 0:17:12.640 all like funny, funny people. THAT'SI Sidar is another good example. 0:17:13.760 --> 0:17:16.560 So tom Ellis, though, Matt, I remember going through that 0:17:16.640 --> 0:17:20.040 casting process and you like sending me all of these 0:17:20.119 --> 0:17:23.920 recordings and these auditions, and for Godcat, you weren't even 0:17:24.560 --> 0:17:26.840 there was not even a thought that went into that. 0:17:26.960 --> 0:17:29.440 It was just like you heard that voice, and you're like, yeah, 0:17:29.440 --> 0:17:32.040 this is Godcat, like this is one hundred percent sold. 0:17:32.520 --> 0:17:35.040 Yeah, and he was offer only, so we never heard 0:17:35.119 --> 0:17:37.919 him before. The table reads. So the table reads, I'm like, 0:17:38.200 --> 0:17:40.720 there's no way this guy's not gonna not gonna like 0:17:41.000 --> 0:17:43.200 fell it. And he didn't. I mean, if I said 0:17:43.200 --> 0:17:45.359 that the right way, he was amazing. Like he We 0:17:45.359 --> 0:17:46.960 could kind of get a sense of him too, because 0:17:47.000 --> 0:17:50.320 tom Elise is Welsh, his accent is Welsh. He's funny 0:17:50.400 --> 0:17:53.240 based on his previous shows Miranda Loose First and other things, 0:17:54.359 --> 0:17:57.359 but he also has this simultaneous quality of being old 0:17:57.400 --> 0:18:01.200 world founding but also being fresh and relevant. Another good 0:18:01.240 --> 0:18:03.680 comparison to him might be someone like Matt Gardy also 0:18:03.720 --> 0:18:05.080 on what we do in the Shadows, where he's got 0:18:05.119 --> 0:18:09.080 this old world sound. But he also can like yell 0:18:09.119 --> 0:18:12.359 at his phone for not charging fast enough, like I 0:18:12.400 --> 0:18:15.040 can straddle those two. So Tom allis ended up being 0:18:15.720 --> 0:18:20.160 absolutely perfect god Cat. He's also a very nice man 0:18:20.200 --> 0:18:20.560 in person. 0:18:21.200 --> 0:18:24.800 I originally thought it was a nice nod to the 0:18:24.840 --> 0:18:27.879 inverse of him being Lucifer, that he'd be Godcat by them. 0:18:27.880 --> 0:18:32.040 I mean, that's a big Lucifer fan, so that was. 0:18:33.560 --> 0:18:35.879 I think he's already getting hit with every single comment 0:18:35.920 --> 0:18:38.040 thread on the internet about the show is like he 0:18:38.080 --> 0:18:40.920 played the Devil, now it plays God That's like that dominates, 0:18:40.920 --> 0:18:42.440 and I'm like, great, I like it. I think that 0:18:43.080 --> 0:18:45.000 probably is helping our marketing a little bit because that's 0:18:45.040 --> 0:18:47.680 such a funny topic to you know. The other thing 0:18:47.760 --> 0:18:49.760 worth noting about Tom he has two cats at home 0:18:49.800 --> 0:18:52.719 and their names are Kane and Abel, so it all 0:18:52.800 --> 0:18:56.320 kind of fits into the theme of Godcat and Devil Cat. 0:18:56.320 --> 0:19:00.159 Talking about exploding kittens, the brand and exploding Kitten is 0:19:00.200 --> 0:19:04.240 the show and the digital game and remaining separate as 0:19:04.240 --> 0:19:06.959 a company right now, how are you functioning when you 0:19:07.000 --> 0:19:09.520 have this huge show coming out that is made by 0:19:09.520 --> 0:19:12.000 the brand, but you're also still operating as a company 0:19:12.000 --> 0:19:15.159 that does other things and is a merchandising company, a 0:19:15.240 --> 0:19:18.520 game company, as you've said, So we're you're all's focuses 0:19:18.640 --> 0:19:21.440 right now. How much are you split between different projects? 0:19:21.520 --> 0:19:22.800 What does that look like internally? 0:19:23.520 --> 0:19:26.679 Yeah, we should We should start by saying, every lawyer, 0:19:27.000 --> 0:19:31.240 every accountant, every Hollywood agent for the last five years 0:19:31.280 --> 0:19:33.920 has been begging us to change the name of the company, 0:19:33.960 --> 0:19:36.320 so that is not the same name as everything else, 0:19:36.359 --> 0:19:38.879 because you say exploiting kittens. Are you talking about the 0:19:38.880 --> 0:19:41.439 show or the company, or the or the game or 0:19:41.520 --> 0:19:45.200 one of the expansions. It's it drives everybody insane. Matt 0:19:45.200 --> 0:19:47.600 and I refuse to change it because that's how it 0:19:47.640 --> 0:19:49.720 was born, and we think it's very We. 0:19:49.680 --> 0:19:50.119 Just like it. 0:19:50.200 --> 0:19:55.840 So, so, how is this whole thing functioning? It's it's 0:19:55.840 --> 0:20:00.480 a it's I've I've done five startups in my life. 0:20:00.520 --> 0:20:03.760 This is now by far the largest one, which makes 0:20:03.760 --> 0:20:06.760 it really really hard to manage all of those things 0:20:06.800 --> 0:20:10.199 because we have separate teams working on individual projects. Right 0:20:10.240 --> 0:20:15.320 we have our largest team works on sorry, our largest team. Actually, 0:20:15.600 --> 0:20:18.360 when the Netflix show was in full production, was nearly 0:20:18.400 --> 0:20:20.600 one hundred people, so that was the actual largest team. 0:20:20.680 --> 0:20:24.120 Second largest is game production, and then third is digital, 0:20:24.240 --> 0:20:27.880 where we have a lot of external partners. The company 0:20:27.920 --> 0:20:32.920 itself in order to function just has a lot of managers. 0:20:33.080 --> 0:20:37.920 Like we really we started out in my garage, just 0:20:38.119 --> 0:20:40.680 very few of us, and the whole idea was, let's 0:20:40.680 --> 0:20:43.520 all be creative all day, every day, and we'll make 0:20:43.560 --> 0:20:46.080 a game, and it's going to be somebody else's problem 0:20:46.119 --> 0:20:48.760 to figure out how that thing is produced, how it's printed, 0:20:48.800 --> 0:20:51.040 how it's shipped, how it gets on boats, how it 0:20:51.080 --> 0:20:53.160 gets into stores. We don't care about any of that. 0:20:53.200 --> 0:20:55.800 All we care about is gonna make fun stuff that 0:20:55.840 --> 0:20:59.640 we like playing. And in the process of doing that, 0:21:00.600 --> 0:21:03.600 we learned that we want to get good at everything. 0:21:04.040 --> 0:21:06.280 We want to learn how to print, we want to 0:21:06.359 --> 0:21:08.280 learn how to distribute, we want to learn how to 0:21:08.320 --> 0:21:10.000