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Speaker 1: I miss the green, for example, I'm already upset. When

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Speaker 1: I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset.

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Speaker 2: And when I find my ball in a brid Egg

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Speaker 2: Friday Egg, the dreaded Frida Egg Friday, Frida Egg Bride

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Speaker 2: Egg Lie, I'm about ready to run off the golf course.

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Speaker 2: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another edition of the

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Speaker 2: Frida Egg Podcast. We have a second podcast this week

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Speaker 2: and excited to bring on Jake Nichols. Jake is the

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Speaker 2: head of Intelligence at the Fifteenth Club, which is a

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Speaker 2: golf analytics company that helps players kind of analyze and

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Speaker 2: look at their stats to play better. Some of their

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Speaker 2: players they have a lot of European tour players are

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Speaker 2: Danny Willett, Darren Clark, Lee Westwood, Matt Fitzpatrick, Juice Luton,

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Speaker 2: Torborne Ollison and many more. Jake, thanks for coming on.

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Speaker 1: Thanks a lot, and I appreciate you having me.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I'm excited to kind of get into, you

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Speaker 2: know what, what everybody needs to know about the saber

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Speaker 2: metrics of golf. I you know, to kick things off.

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Speaker 2: I'd love to hear a little bit about how you

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Speaker 2: got into it in your background.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, sure, so I was always a golf fan more

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Speaker 3: than more than anything. I played a little bit when

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Speaker 3: I was younger, but but I was always much more

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Speaker 3: of a fan. And then in college really started to

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Speaker 3: get into looking at sports in a statistical way. So

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Speaker 3: baseball and basketball were the two big ones back then.

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Speaker 3: And after a year or two of you know, reading

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Speaker 3: blog posts and books and whatever was available in those sports,

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Speaker 3: I started to wonder why golf didn't have very many

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Speaker 3: people operating it. And this was before Mark Brody and

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Speaker 3: strokes Gan got big, before his book came out, and

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Speaker 3: so there were only a handful of people really in

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Speaker 3: the corners of the Internet who were analyzing golf with

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Speaker 3: with data. So I just picked it up as a

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Speaker 3: side hobby in college and it's grown into full time

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Speaker 3: job with Fifteenth Club for the last two years.

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Speaker 2: That's cool. Did you do anything else before you got

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Speaker 2: into that and in the working world.

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Speaker 3: Nope, This was pretty much straight out of college after

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Speaker 3: a little bit of loafing around the house.

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Speaker 2: That's cool. So tell us a little bit about like

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Speaker 2: what's a day in the life for you, Like what

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Speaker 2: do you what do you do on a daily basis

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Speaker 2: with like golf numbers, and how does it work.

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Speaker 3: So it could be really anything. Right now, when we're

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Speaker 3: on a report for one of our players, basically a

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Speaker 3: check up for him, he's all for a few weeks now,

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Speaker 3: so he's looking for a you know, a breakdown of

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Speaker 3: his game. How's he trending over the first few months

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Speaker 3: of the season. So it could be that it could

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Speaker 3: be working on a consulting project for one of our clients.

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Speaker 3: We've gotten involved in a lot in the last six

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Speaker 3: months to twelve months, and just how can how can

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Speaker 3: golf organizations use their data better? So it's analyzing data,

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Speaker 3: it's working on software tools to help the players capture

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Speaker 3: their data better, to help these organizations track their data better.

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Speaker 3: So a lot of numbers, a lot of coding, a

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Speaker 3: lot of data visualization which I which I really enjoy,

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Speaker 3: and then you know, just figuring out how best to

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Speaker 3: communicate insights to the players, caddies, other clients.

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Speaker 2: So you know, we've seen like this sabermetrics boom and

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Speaker 2: baseball and bat basketball, where you know, they've kind of

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Speaker 2: completely revolutionized the sport. And you know, the philosophy is

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Speaker 2: behind the sport. How you assemble teams, how you how

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Speaker 2: you even you know draw plays in basketball. How far

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Speaker 2: behind is is golf from that?

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Speaker 3: So I would say when I think about using data

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Speaker 3: in like the sports arena, I think there's kind of

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Speaker 3: three phases. The first is someone decides to start tracking

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Speaker 3: all this stuff. So the PGA Tour installed shot link

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Speaker 3: cameras over a decade ago, so now they have all

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Speaker 3: this data to play with. So the second stage is

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Speaker 3: kind of convincing people that that data can be used

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Speaker 3: to create insights, that we can learn from it, that

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Speaker 3: it can help players play better, it can help the tour,

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Speaker 3: you know, organize events better. It can you know, do

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Speaker 3: all this, do all this stuff, uh, basically what we're

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Speaker 3: doing right now.

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Speaker 1: And then the final.

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Speaker 3: Stage is it's fully accepted. And I think in baseball

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Speaker 3: it's fully accepted. All the teams use it, everyone talks

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Speaker 3: about it, it's on the broadcast, it's in the studio shows.

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Speaker 3: I really think golf is still kind of in that

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Speaker 3: second stage where we're still trying to convince some people

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Speaker 3: out there, some stakeholders in the game, some players, you know,

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Speaker 3: of of the of the validity of the results, how

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Speaker 3: it can help them out and really get everyone comfortable

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Speaker 3: with talking talking about data. So I really think it's

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Speaker 3: you know, it's behind baseball for sure, but it's also

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Speaker 3: a little bit easier than like applying analytics to basketball,

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Speaker 3: where you have to track the ball and ten players,

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Speaker 3: and in this court you can, you know, kind of

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Speaker 3: only focus on where's the ball positioned at each time

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Speaker 3: or one player swing. So it's a little bit easier

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Speaker 3: of a problem than basketball or hockey or football.

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Speaker 2: What would you say is the biggest pushback that you get,

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Speaker 2: like what's the most regular kind of feedback against the

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Speaker 2: analytics and using them to kind of try and you know,

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Speaker 2: analyze performance.

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Speaker 3: I would say there's a few things. The first is

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Speaker 3: a lack of understanding of how this is, uh, this

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Speaker 3: is different strokes gained.

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Speaker 1: It takes a while to really.

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Speaker 3: Understand it intuitively. I think you can't really understand it

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Speaker 3: in totally. I mean, so I think there's a little disconnect.

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Speaker 3: How can you know this is better than just looking

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Speaker 3: at the stats that I've looked at for ten years

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Speaker 3: or twenty years, or maybe don't look at all. And

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Speaker 3: the second one is when it conflicts with what the

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Speaker 3: player or the caddy or the coach is seeing with

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Speaker 3: their eyes. Try telling a player who you think his

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Speaker 3: iron game is merely average that and he might think

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Speaker 3: it's you know, top twenty five in the world because

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Speaker 3: maybe he's getting the consistent contact that he's looking for,

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Speaker 3: you know, his swing feels great, but maybe the results

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Speaker 3: just aren't there, or the strategy in the shots just

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Speaker 3: aren't there. So there's it's it's difficult sometimes where there's

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Speaker 3: some resistance to what the data is telling you.

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Speaker 2: So with when you guys start working with players, you know,

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Speaker 2: what kind of stuff do you does that encompass? Obviously

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Speaker 2: it's you know, looking at their stats. You know, does

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Speaker 2: it go into you know, you touched on strategy, does

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Speaker 2: it go into how to play the course and in

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Speaker 2: different tendencies and stuff like that.

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Speaker 3: So the initial state that most of our clients come

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Speaker 3: to us with is I just want to track my performance,

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Speaker 3: track how I've been playing in all these different areas.

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Speaker 3: So we have a tool, a software tool that they

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Speaker 3: can enter their data into. It tracks their data over time.

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Speaker 3: They can you know, slice and dice it. However they

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Speaker 3: like to look at it, and that kind of data

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Speaker 3: is really used to influence everything else we do with

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Speaker 3: them in terms of reports and strategy and you know,

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Speaker 3: everything else. So that's kind of the initial thing is

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Speaker 3: someone will come to us and say, you know, I'm

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Speaker 3: just looking to improve, looking to get better. How can

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Speaker 3: you help me track my performance and you know, and

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Speaker 3: figure out what's the one or two things that I

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Speaker 3: need to work on to you know, become a top

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Speaker 3: fifty player, top twenty five player, top ten player eventually.

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Speaker 3: And then once once we have that sort of data,

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Speaker 3: once they're in degraded into that sort of software tool,

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Speaker 3: then some of them are more interested than others in

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Speaker 3: in things like one course strategy. So we have a

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Speaker 3: few guys who we help prepare for some of the

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Speaker 3: big events and some guys who are interested in it

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Speaker 3: week to week just what can you tell me about

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Speaker 3: the course? What can you tell me about you know,

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Speaker 3: what should I be working on in the last three

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Speaker 3: weeks of practice before the Masters? What sort of shots

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Speaker 3: am I going to face at the at the tournament

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Speaker 3: that I should be preparing for. And then at the

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Speaker 3: end of the year, there's some clients who are interested

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Speaker 3: in scheduling, you know, what's the one or two courses

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Speaker 3: that I should play this year that I don't normally

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Speaker 3: play that that whether it's something about the field or

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Speaker 3: something about the course fitting my game that I can

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Speaker 3: really get an edge and maybe outperform my normal level

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Speaker 3: of play at that course.

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Speaker 2: Interesting. So with the you know, the specific courses, is

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Speaker 2: there you know, how much is like the horses for courses,

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Speaker 2: is it you know, overplayed or how real is it?

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Speaker 3: Uh, it's definitely a factor for sure. I've seen some

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Speaker 3: people dismiss it because if you look at just the

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Speaker 3: thing is, if you look at just results of players

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Speaker 3: at a course, So this guy's going to Sawgrass his

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Speaker 3: last five times and he's had four top tens, it's

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Speaker 3: not really telling you that much because it might be

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Speaker 3: that that player is just really good. You know, if

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Speaker 3: that's Henrik Stenson and he's top ten four times out

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Speaker 3: of five, well maybe that's pretty close to what you'd

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Speaker 3: expect there. So the actual it's it's difficult to tease

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Speaker 3: horses for courses out of the data. I don't think

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Speaker 3: you can just look at a you know, look at

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Speaker 3: a sheet that gives you his results for the last

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Speaker 3: ten years and there's more to it. It's more about how,

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Speaker 3: you know, how does that player's game fit with the

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Speaker 3: course statistically and if we and if we can figure

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Speaker 3: that out. Then we can go to tell Matt fitz

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Speaker 3: Fitzpatrick or Danny Willett, who have never played a lot

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Speaker 3: of the PGA Tour courses, and we can say, well,

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Speaker 3: our numbers say your game fits well at Colonial, or

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Speaker 3: your game fits well at at the Travelers, et cetera.

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Speaker 2: That's it. It's interesting. So with regards to kind of

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Speaker 2: you know, how how you guys wait things, And obviously

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Speaker 2: with Mark Brody's kind of strokes gained book, he you know,

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Speaker 2: he put a big discount on kind of putting, and

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Speaker 2: you know, just preaching about how you know, tee to

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Speaker 2: green was so much more important, and anything inside of

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Speaker 2: fifty yards was relatively you know, everybody's the same. What

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Speaker 2: would you say is the biggest difference between say you're,

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Speaker 2: you know, top fifty player and number like two fifty

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Speaker 2: in the world range, Like, you know, somebody that's kind

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Speaker 2: of like a fringe tour guy, whether it's European Tour

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Speaker 2: or PGA Tour, kind of bouncing between the web dot

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Speaker 2: Com or the Challenge Tour and the and the Big Tour.

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Speaker 3: I still would think it's sort of ball striking stats

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Speaker 3: for sure. I would say probably a combination of long

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Speaker 3: game and also driving ability. So I imagine there's a

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Speaker 3: lot more guys in that sort of churn area between

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Speaker 3: the Web and the and the big tour who can

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Speaker 3: hit it a mile but can't control it. And there's

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Speaker 3: a lot of guys in that top fifty in the

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Speaker 3: world range who who maybe don't hit it as far

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Speaker 3: as those big hitters, but they're really controlling it, they're

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Speaker 3: putting it in play, and that kind of above average

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Speaker 3: distance plus you know, average accuracy is really really what

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Speaker 3: sets players apart. So yeah, definitely, definitely long game is

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Speaker 3: kind of still the separator at that level.

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Speaker 2: And I'm curious, you know, something I look at is

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Speaker 2: I kind of think that the world rankings and the

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Speaker 2: PGA Tour is a byproduct of the golf course as

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Speaker 2: they play. You know, a couple of weeks ago at Harbortown,

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Speaker 2: you see like a distinctly different leader board than you

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Speaker 2: do week over week of the PGA Tour, And I

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Speaker 2: think there's a few courses that kind of fit that mold.

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Speaker 2: Do you think that, you know, the golf courses that

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Speaker 2: the PGA Tour plays, the tPCS, the you know, the

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Speaker 2: courses that really value you know, kind of do you

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Speaker 2: think the courses diminish what a player's skill inside one

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Speaker 2: hundred yards as much and then promote the long game,

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Speaker 2: or do you think it's in terms of your every

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Speaker 2: day golf that long game is more important.

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Speaker 3: See I think I think there's definitely rewards based on

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Speaker 3: the change in the game over the last fifteen years,

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Speaker 3: the ball change and the distance change. There's rewards to

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Speaker 3: making the courses fit that sort of elite PGA tour player.

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Speaker 3: But I don't really think that they diminish talent inside

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Speaker 3: one hundred yards sort of short game. Right now on

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Speaker 3: tour the average course you hit driver about ten times

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Speaker 3: around or so, which I think is a pretty reasonable

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Speaker 3: middle ground. It doesn't give the best hit like best

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Speaker 3: drivers in the world, the ability to hit driver on

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Speaker 3: every single hole, and it also doesn't really take get

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Speaker 3: out of their hands for ten holes around. Yeah, I

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Speaker 3: think the rough is definitely more playable than maybe is

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Speaker 3: fair towards really to promote letting those big hitters out

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Speaker 3: of jail when they when they rip off a loose one.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so because I think a lot of it. You know, obviously,

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Speaker 2: conditioning to firm and fast conditions, how do you guys. See,

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Speaker 2: you know, like conditions play a play a factor, like

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Speaker 2: whether a course gets rain soaked and it's soft versus

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Speaker 2: you know, firm and fast.

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Speaker 1: Is it it?

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Speaker 2: Does it? Do you see? You know, differences within the

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Speaker 2: same golf course, say like a Riviera where it was

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Speaker 2: soaked this year versus you know when it's played firm

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Speaker 2: and fast in the past.

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Speaker 3: I've never actually looked at it, but you can, I

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Speaker 3: imagine if you look at the scoring, you can definitely

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Speaker 3: see see it come out in the scoring and see

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Speaker 3: it come out and really all the other stats.

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Speaker 1: We saw it at the match.

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Speaker 3: Play this year where the faraways were basically concrete and

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Speaker 3: the balls were just running out three seventy five. And

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Speaker 3: also when the when the greens slowed down. You definitely

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Speaker 3: can can notice it in the in the punting stats.

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Speaker 3: I think it was at Innisbrook a few years ago

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Speaker 3: where they had reseated the greens or changed something with

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Speaker 3: the green surface and everyone was leaving the putt short

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Speaker 3: and it was we we like to look at this

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Speaker 3: stat like how how often did you get it to

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Speaker 3: the hole or just past the hole with your putts?

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Speaker 3: And that that course was like breaking our scale. That

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Speaker 3: that year just because the players weren't just weren't used

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Speaker 3: to putting on the surface. So conditioning can be a

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Speaker 3: huge factor with putting for sure.

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Speaker 2: I remember that it is their brand new g and

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Speaker 2: yeah everybody left it short. So with that stat getting

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Speaker 2: into the hole, like, what are some other stats that

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Speaker 2: you guys look at that you know, aren't you know?

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Speaker 2: On PGA tour dot com.

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Speaker 3: A few of the core specific ones that I like

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Speaker 3: to look at week to week is what kind of

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Speaker 3: trouble can you get into off the tee? So if

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Speaker 3: we compare how a player scores from the rough or

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Speaker 3: the fairway bunker to how they score from the fairway

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Speaker 3: and then just average that for all the different players

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Speaker 3: at each hole, you can get a Basically, you can

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Speaker 3: get the value of how much it costs you if

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Speaker 3: you don't hit the fairway, and that can range at Salgrass,

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Speaker 3: East Lake, I think Mierfield Village they're near about half

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Speaker 3: a stroke penalty average is somewhere around point three or

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Speaker 3: point three and a half, and then on the low

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Speaker 3: end you get your Augusta Nationals or Riviera. I think

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Speaker 3: this week's TVC Louisiana is low somewhere down point two,

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Speaker 3: So that kind of gives you an indication of you know,

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Speaker 3: how much how much does it pay to be a

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Speaker 3: straight hitter this week versus versus another week.

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Speaker 2: So you know, there's always a lot of debate with

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Speaker 2: Augusta and like, you know, does putting matter, like what

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Speaker 2: does a right to left ball flight matter? Like in

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Speaker 2: your estimation? What are the most important stats there?

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Speaker 3: So definitely distance since the course got lengthened, that's most

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Speaker 3: years that stands out as something that really predicts scoring.

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Speaker 3: And that's there's a few reasons for that. Number one

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Speaker 3: is it gives you the ability to attack some of

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Speaker 3: those holes like thirteen and fifteen. Number two, if you

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Speaker 3: can get it around the corner, number ten. And the

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Speaker 3: second one is most big hitters also are a little

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Speaker 3: wild off the tee. So at Augusta, if you miss

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Speaker 3: if you miss the fair way, either you're in the

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Speaker 3: second cut, which is basically nothing, or you're in the

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Speaker 3: trees and you can normally play a shot out towards

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Speaker 3: the green. There's very little penalty for being wild. So

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Speaker 3: if you're a big hitter who hits it twenty yards

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Speaker 3: past the field and maybe uncorks, really one poor shot

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Speaker 3: around at Augusta, that one poor shot isn't really costing

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Speaker 3: you like it is elsewhere. So I would say those

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Speaker 3: are the big things, and that kind of played out

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Speaker 3: this year. Sergio is a big hitter. Justin Rose is

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Speaker 3: a big hitter.

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Speaker 2: It seemed like Sergio was hitting it further than he

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Speaker 2: usually does. I don't know just from the naked eye,

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Speaker 2: was he, like, I mean, was that an extraordinarily long

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Speaker 2: performance for him?

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Speaker 3: It's definitely above average. Sergio is one of those guys

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Speaker 3: who I kind of have the same reaction to you.

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Speaker 3: He's he's sneaky long in some of these events where

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Speaker 3: he's hitting it. You don't really think of him as

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Speaker 3: somebody who's a big hitter, but he definitely was at Augusta.

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Speaker 1: He was right up there with.

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Speaker 3: Not maybe not quite Rory, but with hanging with the

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Speaker 3: next tier guys.

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Speaker 2: So with you know, kind of the world golf rankings,

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Speaker 2: like what how do you view the world golf rankings?

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Speaker 2: And if you're if you're kind of opposed to them,

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Speaker 2: how would you change the rankings to better really gauge

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Speaker 2: who's the best player in the world at a time.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so there's there's two things. One is.

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Speaker 3: Numerous people have found they're a little biased against PGA

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Speaker 3: Tour players favoring players from other tours, which is which

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Speaker 3: is definitely valid.

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Speaker 1: It's easier for.

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Speaker 3: Because the official World Golf Ranking has something called a

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Speaker 3: minimum points, So these really weak events on the European Tour,

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Speaker 3: the Japanese Tour, the Asian Tour are fixed that they

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Speaker 3: have to award at least a certain number of points.

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Speaker 3: And what happens is these events have quite weak fields

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Speaker 3: compared to PGA Tour events, but they're still awarding the

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Speaker 3: minimum number of points. That makes them look stronger than

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Speaker 3: they really are. So there's a few players every year

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Speaker 3: who are benefiting from from going perhaps to the Hero

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Speaker 3: Indian Open and winning an event that maybe it should

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Speaker 3: award twelve points, but it awards twenty four. And the

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Speaker 3: second thing is the World Golf Rankings really award or

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Speaker 3: reward accomplishment, So finishing number one is always better than

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Speaker 3: finishing number two in a comparable event, and that I

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Speaker 3: mean it makes sense as something that they're really designed

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Speaker 3: to decide who gets into these big events, and accomplishment

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Speaker 3: the golf world has decided is the best way to to,

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Speaker 3: you know, figure out who gets to be in these events.

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Speaker 3: It's completely different if you're trying to judge who's performing better,

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Speaker 3: who's playing better, who the better player is. You know,

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Speaker 3: if you put them out on the course for eighteen

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Speaker 3: holes and that you look at that numerous cases throughout

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Speaker 3: the year where someone wins a tournament, maybe they only

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Speaker 3: beat the field by twelve shots the field average over

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Speaker 3: the week, which is comparatively small. And then you have

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Speaker 3: another you know, the extreme example of this is Stenson

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Speaker 3: and Phil at the Open Championship last year. Phil Mickelson

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Speaker 3: had probably the second best performance in a tournament in

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Speaker 3: the last fifteen or twenty years. Yeah, and he only

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Speaker 3: got fifty world ranking points or sixty World ranking points,

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Speaker 3: whereas in any other event if he had produced that performance,

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Speaker 3: he would have, you know, he would have won.

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Speaker 2: And then you know, so if I understand what you're saying,

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Speaker 2: like a guy that you know, like just as like

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Speaker 2: a top twenty machine is kind of hurt by it,

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Speaker 2: you know, because they aren't awarded as many points as say, well,

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Speaker 2: I think Kevin Chappel's kind of a good example. You know,

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Speaker 2: this year he hasn't been playing very well, but he

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Speaker 2: just started kind of found something I feel like the

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Speaker 2: last couple of weeks, and you know, then he wins,

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Speaker 2: you know, probably not by that big of a margin,

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Speaker 2: but he jumps twenty points in the world rankings.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, just for winning, just for winning one tournament. So yeah,

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Speaker 3: I definitely agree if you the fact is, if you've

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Speaker 3: finished in twentieth place, I'd love to be able to

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Speaker 3: quickly run the numbers for you, but but I can't.

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Speaker 3: If you finished in twentieth place every week on tour,

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Speaker 3: you'd be one of the best players out there. But

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Speaker 3: your world ranking, I don't think it would be very good.

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Speaker 3: You might be in the in the hundreds, maybe just

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Speaker 3: because you wouldn't have like the My intuition is that

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Speaker 3: you wouldn't have enough points to challenge challenge at the top.

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Speaker 2: That's interesting. But then it also comes down to like

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Speaker 2: definition of what the best players? Is it consistency or

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Speaker 2: is it wins? You know, like, you know, how do

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Speaker 2: how how would you go about valuing you know, say

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Speaker 2: a player, like when you start to look at you know,

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Speaker 2: greatest players of all time and and their scope of

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Speaker 2: their career, you know, how do you weigh you know,

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Speaker 2: dominance and wins versus a guy a consistency factor.

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Speaker 3: I think I rely a lot more on results like

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Speaker 3: wins major championships as the time.

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Speaker 1: Skill gets longer.

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Speaker 3: So if I'm judging a player's full career, maybe like

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Speaker 3: Tiger versus Jack, then yet I think it's fair to

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Speaker 3: look at you know, majors and events one and those

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Speaker 3: sort of things over a year. I think if you're

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Speaker 3: judging who's the best player by who has five wins

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Speaker 3: and who has three, then I think that will not

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Speaker 3: lead you to the best player as often as looking

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Speaker 3: at you know, more performance based metrics.

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Speaker 2: So it would be more like in the Strokes game

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Speaker 2: department and everything like and kind of those stats, less

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Speaker 2: so on wins.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. Like at fifteenth Club we have a stat

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Speaker 3: called Performance Index, which basically rates every player in the

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Speaker 3: world against each other based on you know, adjusts for

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Speaker 3: the strength of the fields that they play and the

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Speaker 3: difficulty of the courses, and and weighs recent play more

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Speaker 3: all those things. And I think this week Rory is

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Speaker 3: the number one player over anyone else. And I'm not

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Speaker 3: so sure anyone right now would say Rory is the

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Speaker 3: best player in golf. People would probably say DJ. But

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Speaker 3: even before DJ fell down, the Stairs a few weeks ago.

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Speaker 3: Rory was very close to DJ in our numbers, enough

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Speaker 3: that one week could have changed things if DJ didn't

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Speaker 3: play that well at the Masters. And I think anyone

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Speaker 3: in their right mind right before the Masters would have said,

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Speaker 3: you know, DJ is the best player in the world,

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Speaker 3: and it's not really close because he had accomplished so

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Speaker 3: much in his last really I guess nine months. But Rory,

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Speaker 3: you see him week to week is just's He's in

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Speaker 3: the top ten every single week and he's often in

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Speaker 3: contention and really right there with with DJ.

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Speaker 2: Who would he on that list on your guys's rankings? Like,

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Speaker 2: who are some surprises? I'm assuming obviously you've got you know,

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Speaker 2: Speace up there, and Ram is probably up there really

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Speaker 2: highly based off of his recent success, But you know,

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Speaker 2: who are some kind of I guess, like I'm just

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Speaker 2: kind of curious.

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Speaker 1: Now.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so until Rom won, I think we had Rom

437
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:28,480
Speaker 3: when he won in San Diego. He was rated in

438
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:32,840
Speaker 3: the teens in Performance Index before he won, and I

439
00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:36,680
Speaker 3: think he was where was he in the world ranking, maybe.

440
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:38,840
Speaker 2: Fiftieth or fortieth or something like that.

441
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:42,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, he was, he was outside the top hundred

442
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:45,119
Speaker 3: before he won and then he was forty sixth after

443
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:48,600
Speaker 3: he won. So that's a good example of where the

444
00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:51,760
Speaker 3: world rankings kind of screws a guy like him who's

445
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:55,120
Speaker 3: just absolutely dominant for his first twenty events on tour,

446
00:27:56,480 --> 00:28:02,480
Speaker 3: but it kind of pushes him back Malinori as a

447
00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:05,840
Speaker 3: guy who's who we have as a top twenty player

448
00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:10,399
Speaker 3: right now. Again, he's extremely consistent. He's always, you know,

449
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:16,000
Speaker 3: just outside the mix. He's rarely missing cuts. Rapha Coberabeo

450
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:17,280
Speaker 3: was like that for most.

451
00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:17,800
Speaker 1: Of last year.

452
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:21,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, he kind of took it maybe into the Ryder

453
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:23,879
Speaker 3: Cup and maybe still isn't kind of popping up on

454
00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:27,239
Speaker 3: people's radar, but he was. He was rating as a

455
00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:30,520
Speaker 3: very very good player last year. And it's again because

456
00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:33,640
Speaker 3: you know, week to week he was playing so consistently well.

457
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:37,719
Speaker 2: So if you were gonna say, like, you know, this

458
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:40,920
Speaker 2: is a guy that's going to break out, that maybe

459
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:43,760
Speaker 2: not a name that's not on everybody's radar, like who

460
00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:48,800
Speaker 2: could be the next you know, Thomas Peters type breakout player,

461
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:52,640
Speaker 2: who would it be? Based off of numbers?

462
00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:56,040
Speaker 1: That's stuff I'll have to give me.

463
00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:57,600
Speaker 3: Give me about ten minutes and I can come back

464
00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:01,040
Speaker 3: to you with an answer, I'll do some searching on

465
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:03,960
Speaker 3: the sidelines while we talked, so.

466
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:08,520
Speaker 2: In terms of in terms of the you know, kind

467
00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:11,400
Speaker 2: of players that you're working with now, is it's very European,

468
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:14,520
Speaker 2: too ur heavy, you know, Is there any guys that

469
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:18,160
Speaker 2: you look at and think like, I'd really like to

470
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:20,840
Speaker 2: work with this guy because I know we could make him,

471
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:24,880
Speaker 2: you know, a better player, Like if so, Like who

472
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:27,040
Speaker 2: would be some names that you'd love to kind of

473
00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:29,680
Speaker 2: work with and and talk about, you know where there

474
00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:32,160
Speaker 2: might be some you know, deficiencies that could you know,

475
00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:33,480
Speaker 2: greatly improve play.

476
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:35,200
Speaker 1: Well.

477
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:39,520
Speaker 3: I'd love to work with Bryson just to experience what

478
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:43,080
Speaker 3: that would be like for a week, just to get

479
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:46,880
Speaker 3: inside of his head and see see what crazy theories

480
00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:48,600
Speaker 3: he's he's come up with on his own.

481
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:50,560
Speaker 1: So that's one.

482
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:55,240
Speaker 3: An interesting one who is way off the radar is

483
00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:56,840
Speaker 3: jj A Henry.

484
00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:00,480
Speaker 1: A lot of our stats, a lot of the stats.

485
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:02,800
Speaker 3: When I look at him, he pops up as someone

486
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:07,440
Speaker 3: who plays very conservative golf. He lays up off the

487
00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:11,800
Speaker 3: tea a lot. When we measure aggressiveness in terms of

488
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:15,200
Speaker 3: hitting the shots into the green, he always comes up

489
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:19,880
Speaker 3: as very conservative. I think if putting numbers are conservative

490
00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:23,600
Speaker 3: in terms of he's not really giving himself the chance

491
00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:26,680
Speaker 3: to make putts sometimes, why not getting into the hole.

492
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:30,040
Speaker 3: So I think if we could could sit down with

493
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:33,400
Speaker 3: him and have him buy in and maybe play a

494
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:37,520
Speaker 3: little more aggressive golf, then he could, you know, maybe

495
00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:40,480
Speaker 3: he could improve. So that's kind of one off the

496
00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:41,600
Speaker 3: off the radar.

497
00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:43,960
Speaker 2: Kind of amazing that that's like, you know, one of

498
00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:47,840
Speaker 2: Trone's like whipping boys, and.

499
00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:50,640
Speaker 3: You can absolutely see why it's his whipping boy because

500
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:54,520
Speaker 3: he does I would say he babi's the ball around

501
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:57,960
Speaker 3: the course so that he can you know, make a

502
00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:00,520
Speaker 3: cut and cash a check for fifty place.

503
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:06,000
Speaker 2: Who today is the most miscast, you know, whipping boy

504
00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:06,760
Speaker 2: of tron.

505
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:12,440
Speaker 3: Oh, I think it has to be Brendan Steel. Brendan

506
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:17,000
Speaker 3: Steele is a big numbers a big guy that numbers love.

507
00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:20,880
Speaker 3: I'm not sure how into numbers he is, but but

508
00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:23,800
Speaker 3: the numbers really like the changes he's made to his game.

509
00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:27,880
Speaker 3: He's really improved how he drives the ball in the

510
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:33,320
Speaker 3: last few years and and he went from being completely

511
00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:36,800
Speaker 3: ineffective off the tea, not long and not straight to

512
00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:40,960
Speaker 3: being a pretty big hitter who can really control his

513
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:44,400
Speaker 3: ball and and really really gains strokes in the long

514
00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:48,480
Speaker 3: game now, so just in terms of golf ability that

515
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:51,280
Speaker 3: that gets unnecessary abuse from Tron, I would say, I

516
00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:52,600
Speaker 3: would say it's Brendan Steel.

517
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:55,560
Speaker 2: I've always wondered that too, because he does like he

518
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:59,440
Speaker 2: rips it and he plays pretty aggressive. But you know,

519
00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:01,880
Speaker 2: you get on the wrong side of Tron. I mean,

520
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:04,560
Speaker 2: I'm shocked that you brought up JJ Henry.

521
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:10,720
Speaker 3: He's He's someone who has always always stood out in

522
00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:15,720
Speaker 3: that sort of aggressiveness data that we whether we've looked at.

523
00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:21,600
Speaker 3: So anytime I anytime I run a new stat, JJ

524
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:23,400
Speaker 3: Henry is one of the first people I check where

525
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:26,160
Speaker 3: he isn't it? And normally he's sticking out in some

526
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:26,959
Speaker 3: different direction.

527
00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 2: Unbelievable. So do you do? You say, like, I'm a

528
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:34,320
Speaker 2: web dot Com tour player and I have you know,

529
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:37,320
Speaker 2: they don't really have like the shot link data and everything.

530
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:40,440
Speaker 2: How how would I work with the fifteenth club and

531
00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:42,760
Speaker 2: you guys like, how how would you guys go about that?

532
00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:45,000
Speaker 2: Would it be manual stats? They'd have to keep.

533
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:46,680
Speaker 1: Yes.

534
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:49,200
Speaker 3: So so right now, most of our clients on the

535
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:53,720
Speaker 3: European Tour will have their caddy track the data during

536
00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:57,080
Speaker 3: the round. Since the caddy already pretty much knows the

537
00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:00,200
Speaker 3: length and lie of each shot. Just write that information

538
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:04,040
Speaker 3: down and input it into our app at the end

539
00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:04,520
Speaker 3: of the round.

540
00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:06,280
Speaker 1: It's it's really simple.

541
00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:10,040
Speaker 3: It takes ten minutes and you can immediately get feedback

542
00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:12,240
Speaker 3: on how you played that day if you're interested in it.

543
00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:16,720
Speaker 3: But yeah, it's manually tracked, and that is because the

544
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:23,160
Speaker 3: European Tour doesn't have a shot link esque system. Neither

545
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:26,280
Speaker 3: do any of the other tours. So that's really designed

546
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:31,240
Speaker 3: to be a solution for LPGA players, Web dot Com players,

547
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:35,120
Speaker 3: European Tour players, you know, anyone who doesn't have someone

548
00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:36,440
Speaker 3: tracking that for them already.

549
00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:39,240
Speaker 2: It could be you know, even amateurs like me.

550
00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:44,800
Speaker 3: Huh, yeah, absolutely, it's it's in discussion for an amateur product,

551
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:47,959
Speaker 3: there's a lot more competition in that space.

552
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:51,280
Speaker 2: But yeah, I think about it because I play in

553
00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:55,880
Speaker 2: you know, am stuff and mid am stuff, and I'm

554
00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:59,440
Speaker 2: always curious about my game, and I kind of like,

555
00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:03,400
Speaker 2: I'm probably the exact person that you hate because I'm like, well,

556
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:05,960
Speaker 2: I think I hit my wedge as well, but it

557
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:08,719
Speaker 2: could have been you know, terrible wedges. What would you

558
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:12,279
Speaker 2: say to like the you know, every day gofer like,

559
00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:16,040
Speaker 2: say I wanted to get into thinking more analytically, what

560
00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:16,719
Speaker 2: should I do?

561
00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:23,440
Speaker 3: I would say, first, start collecting data, no matter whether

562
00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:28,560
Speaker 3: you use you know, a product or a spreadsheet of

563
00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:34,360
Speaker 3: your own. I would say, start tracking objectively tracking data

564
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:37,479
Speaker 3: on your game. Uh, maybe if it's even one part.

565
00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:40,200
Speaker 3: If you if you think, say you think you're putting

566
00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:45,920
Speaker 3: is very poor, take detailed notes of the thirty rounds

567
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:47,200
Speaker 3: you play this summer.

568
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:49,960
Speaker 1: And how you put and and.

569
00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:53,920
Speaker 3: That really, I mean, really we're I say this to

570
00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:55,880
Speaker 3: a lot of our clients all the time, is we

571
00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:58,960
Speaker 3: really need data to help you out. You know, we're

572
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:01,640
Speaker 3: not a we're not a but we're not using our eyes,

573
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:05,879
Speaker 3: we're not using feel we're we're judging based off data.

574
00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:09,120
Speaker 3: And if you're an amateur, who's you know, who's looking

575
00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:16,399
Speaker 3: to improve, rigorously track your data, however you can and

576
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:20,560
Speaker 3: really judge where you are. And then maybe you maybe

577
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:22,319
Speaker 3: you spend all summer tracking and you're putting and you're

578
00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:25,080
Speaker 3: actually not that bad, and you can move on to

579
00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:28,680
Speaker 3: something else. But maybe it reveals that you're you know,

580
00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:31,760
Speaker 3: that you're really poorer outside of forty feet with your putting,

581
00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:34,600
Speaker 3: or really poor inside of ten feet with your putting,

582
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:37,359
Speaker 3: and that's something that you can then you know, whether

583
00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:40,399
Speaker 3: it's taking a lesson or looking for instruction, you can

584
00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:42,240
Speaker 3: you know, look to improve.

585
00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:46,839
Speaker 2: So if I wanted to go all in, I'm diving in.

586
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:49,200
Speaker 2: I'm going to collect the data, like how deep do

587
00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:51,720
Speaker 2: you go? Do you say I hit a t shot?

588
00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:54,799
Speaker 2: I hit it two d and eighty five yards to

589
00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:57,520
Speaker 2: the right center? That is it? Is it to like

590
00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:01,520
Speaker 2: the specific side, say I missed a fairway? Like how

591
00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:02,600
Speaker 2: detailed would you go?

592
00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:08,560
Speaker 3: In our basic in our basic app that tracks player data,

593
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:11,439
Speaker 3: it's it's a simple amount of data just to get

594
00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:17,239
Speaker 3: the to get their strokes gained, calculation out. You need

595
00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:20,880
Speaker 3: the lie of the ball, you need the distance it

596
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:25,240
Speaker 3: is from the pin. Tell me if it's a impeded shot.

597
00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:27,799
Speaker 3: Are you behind a tree? Because that changes things? Are

598
00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:32,239
Speaker 3: you behind the loop of a bunker? And what's the

599
00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:35,920
Speaker 3: what's the club you used? And where did you miss

600
00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:37,040
Speaker 3: relative to your target?

601
00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:39,960
Speaker 1: Excuse me? So, if you're aiming.

602
00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:44,440
Speaker 3: Ten feet right of the pin and you put it

603
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:46,600
Speaker 3: sixty feet right of the pin, then that's a miss

604
00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:50,200
Speaker 3: to the right. And just that's the basic level of

605
00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:52,160
Speaker 3: tracking data.

606
00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:55,720
Speaker 2: Interesting, So I imagine that one of the biggest things people

607
00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:58,200
Speaker 2: mess up is how many feet away they are when

608
00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:02,439
Speaker 2: they're putting, because I always feel like people underestimate how

609
00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:04,480
Speaker 2: far away they are. They'll be like, oh, I missed

610
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:08,239
Speaker 2: a five footer, but they were really like eight feet away.

611
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:12,279
Speaker 3: Or if they make that five footer, it turns into

612
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:13,920
Speaker 3: an eight footer.

613
00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:18,640
Speaker 2: That's true, it's it's a and then you know, like

614
00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:23,799
Speaker 2: a it's It's really interesting because I talked to USC's

615
00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:26,560
Speaker 2: coach and they and they started to do strokes gained,

616
00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:30,120
Speaker 2: and something he said to me that I found like

617
00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:35,759
Speaker 2: really interesting was that they have above tour average ball strikers,

618
00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:40,080
Speaker 2: but none of their players are above tour average putters.

619
00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:43,600
Speaker 2: And that's the number one team program in the in

620
00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:46,440
Speaker 2: the country. So like this is where my kind of

621
00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:50,560
Speaker 2: bias where I say, like putting really does matter because

622
00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:53,120
Speaker 2: these guys are or is it that all these guys

623
00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:55,759
Speaker 2: are so good at putting that it's diminished.

624
00:37:57,520 --> 00:37:58,040
Speaker 1: Yeah.

625
00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:01,719
Speaker 3: So, so I think one of the things that's come

626
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:06,000
Speaker 3: out of Mark Brodie's work is is how important the

627
00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:11,080
Speaker 3: long game is, and people have kind of stuck with

628
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:15,319
Speaker 3: that as the message, and that message is that it's

629
00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:19,520
Speaker 3: the most important, not the only thing. That matters, and

630
00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:23,440
Speaker 3: I think that kind of gets lost sometimes. But definitely

631
00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:27,319
Speaker 3: if you look at at the spread between what the

632
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:30,560
Speaker 3: best and the worst putters are doing, it's smaller than

633
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:33,239
Speaker 3: the spread between what the best and the worst drivers

634
00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:35,759
Speaker 3: and best of the worst approach out players are doing.

635
00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:39,239
Speaker 3: So really that that is it on the on the

636
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:44,040
Speaker 3: pro tour, I have no idea how the USC results

637
00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:46,920
Speaker 3: are coming out like they are. If they do really

638
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:51,960
Speaker 3: have tour level ball strikers in that program, that's incredible.

639
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:56,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I found it pretty interesting that like

640
00:38:56,680 --> 00:39:01,240
Speaker 2: not even their best putter was in a plus strokes

641
00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:04,799
Speaker 2: gained player. But you know, I mean they do have, like,

642
00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:07,440
Speaker 2: you know, some of the best players in the country.

643
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:10,000
Speaker 2: You know, I think they've got to Walker Cuppers and

644
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:12,920
Speaker 2: they've got that, They've got that kid that played in

645
00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:15,839
Speaker 2: the Masters like last year, who's a freshman who from

646
00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:19,319
Speaker 2: China change in. So I mean they have elite you

647
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:23,200
Speaker 2: know kids. But that's so that's a good question. What

648
00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:26,880
Speaker 2: would you say, is you know, kind of the the

649
00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:30,080
Speaker 2: barrier for you know, like young kids when they come up,

650
00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:33,920
Speaker 2: like is there a common skill that they usually lack,

651
00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:36,239
Speaker 2: you know, when they're young and on tour.

652
00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:41,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would say without having study that that closely

653
00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:49,000
Speaker 3: short game would would be one course, management would be another.

654
00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:52,200
Speaker 3: Maybe you maybe you step on the tour and you

655
00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:55,560
Speaker 3: can hit it long and you your ball striking is okay,

656
00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:59,200
Speaker 3: but you know, you're really inconsistent with a wedge. You

657
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:02,400
Speaker 3: don't chip that girl right, you can put well inside

658
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:05,960
Speaker 3: ten feet, but maybe when you lag it, you're you're awful.

659
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:09,919
Speaker 3: And those are just sort of the kind of things

660
00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:12,879
Speaker 3: that you can solve by putting yourself into better places

661
00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:17,160
Speaker 3: around the green. Maybe you don't play so aggressively in

662
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:20,520
Speaker 3: certain danger spots. So I would say those are the

663
00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:23,840
Speaker 3: things that kind of separate I feel like the best players.

664
00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:29,400
Speaker 2: It's so much reps too, you know, because oh absolutely yeah,

665
00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:31,600
Speaker 2: And like the mental side of it, Like I think

666
00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:35,960
Speaker 2: about myself like you know, in amateur tournaments when I

667
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:39,239
Speaker 2: was twenty four versus now when I'm thirty one, and

668
00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:43,160
Speaker 2: I think completely different, I play completely different I play, so,

669
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:46,640
Speaker 2: you know, like I'm just smarter, And I imagine that's

670
00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:49,880
Speaker 2: a lot of like the maturation. Like I think Dustin

671
00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:52,600
Speaker 2: Johnson's a good example with this wedge thing. It's like

672
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:55,760
Speaker 2: it's not that he just started practicing he might have learned,

673
00:40:56,080 --> 00:40:58,880
Speaker 2: you know, stuff in along the way. It's not like

674
00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:01,439
Speaker 2: he just started practicing wedges, right.

675
00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:05,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, absolutely, I think you're spot on with that.

676
00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:09,480
Speaker 3: You just learn, you learn how to be a better player,

677
00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:14,560
Speaker 3: You learn how to attack different courses because you've seen

678
00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:18,360
Speaker 3: them before. I think that's a big thing. I was

679
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:21,960
Speaker 3: listening to to No Laying Ups podcasts with Harold Varner,

680
00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:25,960
Speaker 3: and Harold Varner said that, you know, he doesn't think

681
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:28,759
Speaker 3: Tiger even practices that much at the course because he's

682
00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:31,840
Speaker 3: seen everything. And that's true. He's seen everything for twenty years.

683
00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:34,320
Speaker 3: You know, he doesn't need to be out there grinding,

684
00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:38,200
Speaker 3: whereas you know, maybe Harold Varner, a rookie or a

685
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:41,040
Speaker 3: second year player, you know, they do need to be

686
00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:43,440
Speaker 3: out there grinding and learning these courses.

687
00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:46,200
Speaker 2: I was kind of surprised when he said he shows

688
00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:49,640
Speaker 2: up to tournaments on Wednesdays.

689
00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:53,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that's a it works for him. I

690
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:55,880
Speaker 3: don't know how it works for him right now, but

691
00:41:55,880 --> 00:41:59,160
Speaker 3: but if that's if he likes to fly home every week,

692
00:41:59,160 --> 00:41:59,920
Speaker 3: that's what you gotta do.

693
00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:03,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, how what would you say, is like the disadvantage

694
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:07,120
Speaker 2: of a rookie. I mean, obviously they already have the

695
00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:10,600
Speaker 2: chips stacked against them with regards to like the schedule

696
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:14,200
Speaker 2: and and the ranking system, but playing these courses for

697
00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:17,080
Speaker 2: the first time versus the veterans like they have seen

698
00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:19,920
Speaker 2: them for years. Like what what would you say is like,

699
00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:23,439
Speaker 2: you know, first time course, Like disadvantage is it half

700
00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:24,680
Speaker 2: a shot around.

701
00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:27,960
Speaker 3: Or I don't think it's that big. I don't think

702
00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:31,400
Speaker 3: it's that big at all. I think the disadvantage is

703
00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:33,879
Speaker 3: really that a rookie is not going to be as

704
00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:36,560
Speaker 3: good of a player. If you put a if you

705
00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:39,840
Speaker 3: put put the tour players in two different groups, rookies

706
00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:43,600
Speaker 3: and non rookies, the rookies are going to be just

707
00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:46,839
Speaker 3: worse players, just just because it makes sense. You know,

708
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:51,480
Speaker 3: these veterans have been on tour for for longer, they're

709
00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:55,600
Speaker 3: normally more skilled players. So I think that's that really

710
00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:58,600
Speaker 3: drives much of the disadvantage rookies face, as they just

711
00:42:58,680 --> 00:42:59,319
Speaker 3: aren't as good.

712
00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:03,520
Speaker 2: So like, how good is Jon Rahm from? Like from

713
00:43:03,560 --> 00:43:08,320
Speaker 2: a strictly numbers standpoint, Like where what are you saying?

714
00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:11,040
Speaker 2: Like I've I've said for a long time, he's he's

715
00:43:11,040 --> 00:43:13,680
Speaker 2: got number one written all over him. And you know,

716
00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:17,560
Speaker 2: I think now everybody's saying that, but like, is he

717
00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:19,600
Speaker 2: a generational player?

718
00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:24,680
Speaker 1: I think he could be right now.

719
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:28,560
Speaker 3: I think he's he's already in that that like second

720
00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:34,280
Speaker 3: tier of players in terms of you know, for fifth, sixth, seventh,

721
00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:39,240
Speaker 3: best in the world. And just because his his skills

722
00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:42,719
Speaker 3: so far seemed to be he drives them all extremely

723
00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:43,840
Speaker 3: well and he hits his irons.

724
00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:44,080
Speaker 1: Well.

725
00:43:44,600 --> 00:43:48,080
Speaker 3: That's the kind of that's the kind of template that

726
00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:52,239
Speaker 3: Rory and DJ have really written to the top of

727
00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:56,280
Speaker 3: the game, you know, as they've fixed slowly fixed flaws

728
00:43:56,280 --> 00:43:59,280
Speaker 3: in their game and gained a tenth of a stroke

729
00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:02,640
Speaker 3: here in a quote of a stroke there. Uh, he's exactly.

730
00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:04,680
Speaker 3: John Ram is the exactly the kind of guy I

731
00:44:04,680 --> 00:44:07,680
Speaker 3: can see tweaking a few things and and being, you know,

732
00:44:07,719 --> 00:44:09,680
Speaker 3: the next new number one player in the world.

733
00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:13,879
Speaker 2: We're you know, like, who would you say is kind

734
00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:16,400
Speaker 2: of like the outlier of stats? Is there anybody that

735
00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:19,640
Speaker 2: just like, you know, based off of your numbers and

736
00:44:19,680 --> 00:44:22,640
Speaker 2: then but the performance is like the complete opposite of

737
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:23,960
Speaker 2: what your numbers would suggest.

738
00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:30,319
Speaker 3: There's a handful of guys who are are quite inconsistent

739
00:44:30,360 --> 00:44:35,520
Speaker 3: with how they play. They'll have weeks where they look

740
00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:39,440
Speaker 3: like look outstanding and they'll contend in tournaments or win,

741
00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:43,160
Speaker 3: and then they'll have a lot of weeks where where

742
00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:48,960
Speaker 3: they where they're missing cuts and missing cuts badly. I

743
00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:51,279
Speaker 3: think Thomas Peters was a guy like that for for

744
00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:57,640
Speaker 3: a long time, basically up until like last fall, and

745
00:44:57,680 --> 00:45:01,440
Speaker 3: now he's you know, whatever that Lee was in those weeks,

746
00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:04,799
Speaker 3: he's kind of fixed that and he's so much better

747
00:45:04,840 --> 00:45:09,959
Speaker 3: for a player. So yeah, a lot of those young,

748
00:45:10,560 --> 00:45:13,719
Speaker 3: mostly young and inconsistent players are really the ones where

749
00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:18,279
Speaker 3: where stats don't tell as accurate of a story because

750
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:22,480
Speaker 3: it's measuring their average week, which isn't very good, instead

751
00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:25,040
Speaker 3: of their best weeks when they're contending and winning.

752
00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:30,120
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think that's and so much of that could

753
00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:33,160
Speaker 2: be just adjusting to you know, life as a PGA

754
00:45:33,239 --> 00:45:37,040
Speaker 2: tour player, traveling, being on your own, all that stuff.

755
00:45:38,520 --> 00:45:41,280
Speaker 3: Absolutely, Yeah, all that sort of stuff that we discussed

756
00:45:41,280 --> 00:45:43,720
Speaker 3: about ten minutes ago, the adjustment to the tour life.

757
00:45:44,560 --> 00:45:46,640
Speaker 3: You know, you go from being in a college campus

758
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:49,840
Speaker 3: or in a you know, your national team's training facility

759
00:45:51,320 --> 00:45:53,520
Speaker 3: for most of your time and practicing with the same

760
00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:58,080
Speaker 3: people and now you're you're spread around twenty countries around

761
00:45:58,080 --> 00:46:00,319
Speaker 3: the world or all over the United States and you're

762
00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:03,839
Speaker 3: expected to perform or you lose your card. Yeah, that's

763
00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:05,840
Speaker 3: a tough life.

764
00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:09,040
Speaker 2: So, you know, with this week being a new format,

765
00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:11,880
Speaker 2: and I'm kind of interested to hear how you would

766
00:46:12,440 --> 00:46:15,239
Speaker 2: do this, Like how if you were playing and you

767
00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:17,360
Speaker 2: know or say, you have a player that you know

768
00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:21,040
Speaker 2: is in this event, how would you advise them about

769
00:46:21,080 --> 00:46:23,600
Speaker 2: going to pick their partner? Because you always hear, oh,

770
00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:26,680
Speaker 2: they'll be a great. Their games compliment themselves at each

771
00:46:26,719 --> 00:46:29,360
Speaker 2: other so much like they'll be a great, Like what

772
00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:32,560
Speaker 2: what would be your formula? And how cliched is the

773
00:46:32,640 --> 00:46:33,160
Speaker 2: current one?

774
00:46:35,719 --> 00:46:39,920
Speaker 3: Well, the current one, I don't think it's fully thought

775
00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:43,880
Speaker 3: through in our In our Ryder Cup work, we delved

776
00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:47,640
Speaker 3: into sort of what makes a good foursomes pairing, and

777
00:46:47,680 --> 00:46:51,279
Speaker 3: what it really is about is player A and player

778
00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:53,440
Speaker 3: B both have things they do well and both have

779
00:46:53,520 --> 00:46:56,320
Speaker 3: things they don't do well. And it's kind of about

780
00:46:56,320 --> 00:47:00,759
Speaker 3: putting player A in situations where they're not going to

781
00:47:00,760 --> 00:47:03,880
Speaker 3: be causing player B to hit one of their bad shots.

782
00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:07,640
Speaker 3: So if you have someone who struggles with their short game,

783
00:47:08,239 --> 00:47:12,960
Speaker 3: pair them with someone who's just hitting greens relentlessly so

784
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:15,960
Speaker 3: they're not so they're hitting a forty foot pot instead

785
00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:19,600
Speaker 3: of a twenty yard chip that they might that they

786
00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:20,359
Speaker 3: might screw up.

787
00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:23,160
Speaker 2: So Graham to Let, you'd pair with like the best

788
00:47:23,160 --> 00:47:24,640
Speaker 2: ball striker in the world.

789
00:47:25,239 --> 00:47:27,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'd put pair of gram to Let with with

790
00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:31,080
Speaker 3: Graham to Let. So we'll see how that works this week.

791
00:47:31,120 --> 00:47:33,880
Speaker 3: Without grand Let hitting his approach shots into the green.

792
00:47:33,880 --> 00:47:36,279
Speaker 2: Oh man, I didn't even think about that. I wish

793
00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:40,880
Speaker 2: I would have thought about that before. What So what

794
00:47:40,960 --> 00:47:42,680
Speaker 2: else do you what else do you look at?

795
00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:47,400
Speaker 3: Okay, So I took a look at this this morning. Unfortunately,

796
00:47:47,480 --> 00:47:50,000
Speaker 3: I was disappointed that we didn't have any players choosing

797
00:47:50,040 --> 00:47:52,799
Speaker 3: to play this week, because I do think it's an

798
00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:58,800
Speaker 3: interesting intellectual exercise. So we kind of identify key shots

799
00:47:58,920 --> 00:48:04,120
Speaker 3: throughout the course, and these are shots where the difference

800
00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:08,480
Speaker 3: between how players perform on them is really wide, so

801
00:48:08,520 --> 00:48:10,759
Speaker 3: that they can either hit a good shot that gets

802
00:48:10,760 --> 00:48:13,360
Speaker 3: really rewarded or they can hit a poor shot that

803
00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:16,719
Speaker 3: gets really punished. And a good example of that type

804
00:48:16,760 --> 00:48:20,000
Speaker 3: of hole is like seventeen at Sawgrass. It's only a

805
00:48:20,040 --> 00:48:22,279
Speaker 3: short wedge. If you hit a good shot, you're gonna

806
00:48:22,280 --> 00:48:25,760
Speaker 3: make birdie. If you hit a poor shot, you're dead.

807
00:48:25,760 --> 00:48:30,080
Speaker 3: And you're in for double bogie. So we can do

808
00:48:30,200 --> 00:48:34,120
Speaker 3: that for all holes on tour, and we can break

809
00:48:34,120 --> 00:48:35,880
Speaker 3: it down even to look at key shots.

810
00:48:36,120 --> 00:48:37,400
Speaker 1: So maybe on.

811
00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:42,400
Speaker 3: Eighteen at Sawgrass, the drives a real key drive because

812
00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:45,720
Speaker 3: you can get wet very easily, but maybe the approach

813
00:48:45,800 --> 00:48:51,439
Speaker 3: isn't as important. So when we look at Zurich, there's

814
00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:54,680
Speaker 3: a few holes that stick out, and it's like the

815
00:48:54,719 --> 00:48:59,000
Speaker 3: closing stretch. The key holes all set up for one

816
00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:03,680
Speaker 3: one type of player to play one of them. If

817
00:49:03,680 --> 00:49:06,640
Speaker 3: they play the odd tees, it sets up nicely for

818
00:49:06,719 --> 00:49:09,279
Speaker 3: one group, and the guys playing the even and teas

819
00:49:09,320 --> 00:49:12,719
Speaker 3: it sets up nicely for another. So basically it's like,

820
00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:15,959
Speaker 3: if you have a really good ball striker on your team,

821
00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:19,040
Speaker 3: have them play one set, and then if you have

822
00:49:19,120 --> 00:49:23,400
Speaker 3: somebody who's you know, an accurate driver, good short game putts,

823
00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:26,440
Speaker 3: well then they're better at playing the other holes.

824
00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:30,040
Speaker 2: Interesting, so you're just gonna like watch tomorrow and laugh

825
00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:31,799
Speaker 2: at all the teams that mess this up.

826
00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:34,680
Speaker 3: Oh, if you don't think I'm going to criticize people,

827
00:49:35,120 --> 00:49:38,239
Speaker 3: I might keep it off Twitter, but they will be

828
00:49:38,320 --> 00:49:42,799
Speaker 3: silent judgment for sure. Sean Sean Martin at PGA Tour

829
00:49:42,880 --> 00:49:45,480
Speaker 3: had had a good article where he touched on some

830
00:49:45,560 --> 00:49:49,520
Speaker 3: of the strategy guys are using. He mentioned that there's

831
00:49:49,800 --> 00:49:53,719
Speaker 3: you know, three par threes that are that one set

832
00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:56,080
Speaker 3: of players will have the tee off one and the

833
00:49:56,120 --> 00:49:58,920
Speaker 3: par threes here are really long. A couple of them

834
00:49:58,960 --> 00:50:02,040
Speaker 3: are similar holes you know with water to the left

835
00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:05,080
Speaker 3: that they do set up for for one guy. If

836
00:50:05,120 --> 00:50:08,000
Speaker 3: you're a great ball striker, Lake Graham to let you

837
00:50:08,040 --> 00:50:12,760
Speaker 3: know the awful those and and you get an advantage

838
00:50:12,760 --> 00:50:13,399
Speaker 3: of that that way.

839
00:50:14,080 --> 00:50:17,560
Speaker 2: So if you were going to pick one team, who

840
00:50:17,680 --> 00:50:20,000
Speaker 2: would you be going with this week? In a in

841
00:50:20,080 --> 00:50:21,719
Speaker 2: a one and done, like you know, you had to

842
00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:22,239
Speaker 2: pick one.

843
00:50:25,560 --> 00:50:25,840
Speaker 1: See.

844
00:50:25,880 --> 00:50:29,080
Speaker 3: I think Stenson and Rose are pretty generically solid in

845
00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:32,720
Speaker 3: terms of how their games match up, both being elite

846
00:50:32,719 --> 00:50:38,160
Speaker 3: ball strikers. I kind of do like how how Spieth

847
00:50:38,239 --> 00:50:43,319
Speaker 3: and and Ryan Palmer set up. Ryan Palmer is a

848
00:50:43,360 --> 00:50:46,840
Speaker 3: pretty effective driver, he has a decent long game. Jordan

849
00:50:46,880 --> 00:50:52,480
Speaker 3: Spieces is also you know, he's very solid around the

850
00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:55,480
Speaker 3: board in terms of his his skill sets, So I

851
00:50:55,480 --> 00:50:58,319
Speaker 3: think they can fit well together. Palmer's are really poor

852
00:50:58,520 --> 00:51:03,080
Speaker 3: putter and have a great short game sometimes, so that's

853
00:51:03,120 --> 00:51:04,440
Speaker 3: not really that much for a sleeper.

854
00:51:04,480 --> 00:51:07,319
Speaker 2: But yeah, he didn't really give me give me any

855
00:51:07,440 --> 00:51:08,399
Speaker 2: any sleepers.

856
00:51:09,239 --> 00:51:13,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, I haven't really haven't really dug into the player matchup.

857
00:51:14,120 --> 00:51:17,080
Speaker 2: That's fine. I'm kind of curious since you guys advised

858
00:51:17,200 --> 00:51:20,800
Speaker 2: Lee Westwood and then you're probably really familiar with Terrell Hatton.

859
00:51:20,840 --> 00:51:23,799
Speaker 2: I keep whenever I watch him play Hatton play, I

860
00:51:23,800 --> 00:51:27,640
Speaker 2: think I feel like he's very similar to Lee Westwood

861
00:51:27,760 --> 00:51:32,600
Speaker 2: when he was younger. Is that a good comp for him?

862
00:51:32,719 --> 00:51:36,320
Speaker 3: I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm still not sure

863
00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:42,200
Speaker 3: exactly what Tyrrell Hatton does great out there. I'm not

864
00:51:42,320 --> 00:51:46,600
Speaker 3: terribly familiar with his game in general. I know he's

865
00:51:46,640 --> 00:51:48,200
Speaker 3: been putting out of his mind recently.

866
00:51:48,760 --> 00:51:50,480
Speaker 1: Yeah that's one.

867
00:51:50,360 --> 00:51:55,879
Speaker 2: Thing, crazy ascension in the last eighteen months. But yeah,

868
00:51:56,080 --> 00:52:00,960
Speaker 2: he I I just think it might be his build

869
00:52:01,040 --> 00:52:03,840
Speaker 2: and a swing that that always makes me think of Westwood.

870
00:52:04,200 --> 00:52:09,239
Speaker 2: But you know, it's interesting with Lee Westwood. Do you

871
00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:11,520
Speaker 2: still think he can win a major? I mean, I

872
00:52:11,600 --> 00:52:16,040
Speaker 2: might be crossing some client here privilege, but I still do.

873
00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:20,080
Speaker 2: I've got like an ongoing bat with DJ Paiowski about it.

874
00:52:20,880 --> 00:52:24,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, I absolutely think he can. You see him put

875
00:52:24,760 --> 00:52:29,640
Speaker 3: himself in the position often enough. The main challenge for

876
00:52:29,719 --> 00:52:35,480
Speaker 3: him is just his ability is deteriorating slowly, just age

877
00:52:35,520 --> 00:52:39,880
Speaker 3: related to decline. So he's gonna run out of opportunities

878
00:52:40,239 --> 00:52:42,240
Speaker 3: where he's you know, firing.

879
00:52:41,880 --> 00:52:42,719
Speaker 1: On all cylinders.

880
00:52:43,360 --> 00:52:45,560
Speaker 3: But in terms of do I think if he puts

881
00:52:45,640 --> 00:52:47,640
Speaker 3: himself in the position he can get it done. I

882
00:52:47,719 --> 00:52:51,520
Speaker 3: absolutely do, especially since so many of the major courses

883
00:52:52,440 --> 00:52:55,879
Speaker 3: fit his game. So many of the major courses fit

884
00:52:56,000 --> 00:52:59,880
Speaker 3: that sort of ball striking oriented drives it well, hit

885
00:53:00,080 --> 00:53:02,920
Speaker 3: his irons well sort of games.

886
00:53:02,960 --> 00:53:06,160
Speaker 2: That's a formula that works pretty much everywhere.

887
00:53:07,440 --> 00:53:09,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, for sure.

888
00:53:10,120 --> 00:53:13,600
Speaker 2: It's but uh, I forgot what what you were researching?

889
00:53:13,680 --> 00:53:16,080
Speaker 2: What was that? What? What do we what did we

890
00:53:16,160 --> 00:53:16,879
Speaker 2: ask the.

891
00:53:18,520 --> 00:53:21,160
Speaker 1: I can't remember the breakout player?

892
00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:24,440
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, who's your who's your breakout player? If you know,

893
00:53:24,560 --> 00:53:27,359
Speaker 2: they could be outside the top fifty or I don't

894
00:53:27,400 --> 00:53:29,080
Speaker 2: know where where you would term it.

895
00:53:30,840 --> 00:53:33,560
Speaker 3: See, I didn't do my homework. I just too engrossed

896
00:53:33,560 --> 00:53:34,320
Speaker 3: in the conversation.

897
00:53:34,920 --> 00:53:38,280
Speaker 2: It's okay, No, it's fine, it's as so here let's

898
00:53:38,280 --> 00:53:41,319
Speaker 2: talk about a breakout player. Then let's like, have you

899
00:53:41,360 --> 00:53:44,080
Speaker 2: looked in in depth and Adam had win it all?

900
00:53:45,760 --> 00:53:46,040
Speaker 2: I have?

901
00:53:46,160 --> 00:53:50,719
Speaker 3: I've looked at his game great putter ball striking is

902
00:53:50,719 --> 00:53:54,719
Speaker 3: better this year. And that's one of those things that

903
00:53:55,520 --> 00:53:57,960
Speaker 3: for some guys it comes and goes season this season,

904
00:53:58,760 --> 00:54:00,840
Speaker 3: you'll see a lot of guys I had a nice

905
00:54:01,560 --> 00:54:06,200
Speaker 3: breakout with the Irons one season and then you know,

906
00:54:06,239 --> 00:54:08,840
Speaker 3: whatever change the next year and they they kind of

907
00:54:08,880 --> 00:54:12,080
Speaker 3: lose it. But he's a candidate where the rest of

908
00:54:12,120 --> 00:54:14,960
Speaker 3: his game is good enough if he can, you know,

909
00:54:15,520 --> 00:54:19,880
Speaker 3: if that skill proves a little sticky and stays around.

910
00:54:20,160 --> 00:54:22,239
Speaker 2: You know, I put him on a list that I

911
00:54:22,280 --> 00:54:24,480
Speaker 2: did at the beginning of the year of breakout players,

912
00:54:24,480 --> 00:54:26,960
Speaker 2: and I put him on there just like strictly because

913
00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:29,919
Speaker 2: like I saw him in contention like twice last year,

914
00:54:30,040 --> 00:54:33,080
Speaker 2: and like, how you know, is that a pretty good indicator,

915
00:54:33,239 --> 00:54:36,600
Speaker 2: Like for a guy that gets into contention, you know,

916
00:54:36,800 --> 00:54:40,560
Speaker 2: the younger guys that get into contention relatively depending it

917
00:54:40,560 --> 00:54:43,160
Speaker 2: doesn't matter really how they play on Sunday, But like

918
00:54:43,560 --> 00:54:46,200
Speaker 2: just getting into contention, is that a good indicator?

919
00:54:48,239 --> 00:54:50,120
Speaker 3: I mean, anytime you're at the top of the leaderboard

920
00:54:50,160 --> 00:54:52,560
Speaker 3: on a Sunday or near the top, you're playing great golf.

921
00:54:52,600 --> 00:54:56,160
Speaker 3: So yeah, if someone's popping up in seventh place or

922
00:54:56,280 --> 00:55:01,479
Speaker 3: ninth place, a couple of times over the summer. Then yeah, wow,

923
00:55:01,560 --> 00:55:02,600
Speaker 3: that's always a good sign.

924
00:55:02,960 --> 00:55:06,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I want to dive into some Twitter questions.

925
00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:12,080
Speaker 2: We got some good ones here. Sean Reehorn wanted to

926
00:55:12,120 --> 00:55:16,239
Speaker 2: know with all the data accumulated, like what surprised you

927
00:55:16,320 --> 00:55:17,200
Speaker 2: the most?

928
00:55:20,719 --> 00:55:25,640
Speaker 3: Ooh, what always amazes me is the narrow margins shot

929
00:55:25,680 --> 00:55:32,080
Speaker 3: by shot between players. How if your average proximity to

930
00:55:32,120 --> 00:55:35,680
Speaker 3: the green is thirty two feet versus thirty six feet,

931
00:55:35,840 --> 00:55:38,520
Speaker 3: you're one of the best ball strikers in the world,

932
00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:42,640
Speaker 3: and thirty six your average. You know that that kind

933
00:55:42,640 --> 00:55:47,120
Speaker 3: of thing. All of these advantages magnified over hundreds and

934
00:55:47,200 --> 00:55:51,600
Speaker 3: hundreds of shots produced the Tiger Woods. I've always found

935
00:55:51,600 --> 00:55:52,280
Speaker 3: that incredible.

936
00:55:52,640 --> 00:55:55,960
Speaker 2: See. That's something though that like is astounding to think

937
00:55:56,080 --> 00:55:59,600
Speaker 2: is like thirty two feet average proximity and like because

938
00:55:59,640 --> 00:56:02,040
Speaker 2: like I this is like what we talked about with

939
00:56:02,160 --> 00:56:04,239
Speaker 2: like learning how to play the game more is like

940
00:56:04,920 --> 00:56:07,600
Speaker 2: understanding when you have a five iron in like twenty

941
00:56:07,640 --> 00:56:10,520
Speaker 2: feet left is like a really good shot and not

942
00:56:10,920 --> 00:56:14,399
Speaker 2: you know, necessarily firing at the pen. And like when

943
00:56:14,400 --> 00:56:18,359
Speaker 2: the average proximity is like thirty six feet, that's you know,

944
00:56:18,880 --> 00:56:21,160
Speaker 2: most golfers would probably think it's like twenty.

945
00:56:22,719 --> 00:56:26,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, because the all they're shown on TV is

946
00:56:26,640 --> 00:56:30,279
Speaker 3: somebody sticking a wedge in from one hundred yards, uh

947
00:56:30,480 --> 00:56:32,560
Speaker 3: with to get an eight footer for Birdie.

948
00:56:33,239 --> 00:56:36,160
Speaker 2: How do you when you go to a tournament in person?

949
00:56:36,320 --> 00:56:39,760
Speaker 2: What do you do? I'm kind of curious.

950
00:56:39,840 --> 00:56:42,640
Speaker 3: If I'm going as a fan, I'll normally just follow

951
00:56:42,640 --> 00:56:45,520
Speaker 3: a group, follow a player, you know, if there's one

952
00:56:45,600 --> 00:56:48,040
Speaker 3: or two guys I'm interested in, I'll follow them around

953
00:56:49,080 --> 00:56:50,960
Speaker 3: and just if I've never been to the course before,

954
00:56:51,280 --> 00:56:53,920
Speaker 3: try to walk eighteen holes and get a lay of

955
00:56:53,920 --> 00:56:57,360
Speaker 3: the land. If I'm going there with a client, you know,

956
00:56:57,520 --> 00:56:59,960
Speaker 3: to work with clients, you know, you'll go on a

957
00:57:00,280 --> 00:57:04,560
Speaker 3: practice days mostly and and be in meetings and on

958
00:57:04,600 --> 00:57:06,560
Speaker 3: the range and not really get to see much of

959
00:57:06,600 --> 00:57:06,960
Speaker 3: the course.

960
00:57:07,320 --> 00:57:10,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, I kind of prescribed by the same theory you

961
00:57:10,600 --> 00:57:13,120
Speaker 2: do when you're going as a fan. Is like I

962
00:57:13,160 --> 00:57:16,760
Speaker 2: always tell people, pick you know, a group, don't pick

963
00:57:16,960 --> 00:57:19,480
Speaker 2: you know, like pick an off the Beaten Path group

964
00:57:19,560 --> 00:57:21,880
Speaker 2: that like still has like really good players in it,

965
00:57:22,000 --> 00:57:25,000
Speaker 2: like you know, like and just watch them play all

966
00:57:25,040 --> 00:57:27,880
Speaker 2: eighteen holes because they'll have less fans. It's easier to

967
00:57:27,880 --> 00:57:30,040
Speaker 2: get around and you get to see, like how they

968
00:57:30,040 --> 00:57:31,000
Speaker 2: play a golf course.

969
00:57:32,360 --> 00:57:35,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, I like to go to the Travelers in

970
00:57:35,320 --> 00:57:39,720
Speaker 3: Connecticut and that one there's normally some high profile players

971
00:57:39,720 --> 00:57:44,760
Speaker 3: who play there, and but the other groups, if the

972
00:57:44,840 --> 00:57:48,040
Speaker 3: high profile groups are on the back nine, the front

973
00:57:48,120 --> 00:57:51,040
Speaker 3: nine is desolate. You know, you can follow a group

974
00:57:51,080 --> 00:57:52,920
Speaker 3: and be one of five people who are walking with

975
00:57:52,960 --> 00:57:56,000
Speaker 3: them and you just get to see every shot they

976
00:57:56,080 --> 00:57:57,080
Speaker 3: hit throughout the round.

977
00:57:58,760 --> 00:58:00,680
Speaker 2: You know, I'm kind of curious he brought up the

978
00:58:00,720 --> 00:58:04,560
Speaker 2: Travelers and it spurred my memory to Patrick Cantley, and

979
00:58:04,600 --> 00:58:07,000
Speaker 2: I wanted to get your kind of take. I know

980
00:58:07,040 --> 00:58:09,720
Speaker 2: this limited stats, but like, what do you see from

981
00:58:09,760 --> 00:58:13,520
Speaker 2: Patrick Cantley? And you know, obviously everybody I think hopes

982
00:58:13,560 --> 00:58:16,400
Speaker 2: he stays healthy, but what what kind of in his

983
00:58:16,520 --> 00:58:19,120
Speaker 2: game is you know popped? And why he's played so

984
00:58:19,200 --> 00:58:21,000
Speaker 2: well and so few starts.

985
00:58:21,800 --> 00:58:24,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, he's he's my answer for the breakout player,

986
00:58:24,880 --> 00:58:28,640
Speaker 3: even though he might have already broken out already by

987
00:58:28,680 --> 00:58:31,880
Speaker 3: the numbers through his first four or five tournaments back

988
00:58:31,920 --> 00:58:35,800
Speaker 3: he's you know, he looks incredible, looks like he's going

989
00:58:35,920 --> 00:58:39,400
Speaker 3: to you know, pick up easily and you know, finish

990
00:58:39,640 --> 00:58:41,760
Speaker 3: as like a top twenty five or top fifty player

991
00:58:41,760 --> 00:58:42,200
Speaker 3: in the world.

992
00:58:42,320 --> 00:58:45,080
Speaker 1: Once he gets enough, once he gets enough.

993
00:58:44,880 --> 00:58:48,880
Speaker 2: Starts, Yeah, I mean he used to. I mean, he

994
00:58:49,000 --> 00:58:55,080
Speaker 2: was unbelievable in college. It's it's unbelievable that he he

995
00:58:55,920 --> 00:58:58,720
Speaker 2: kind of the whole thing that's happened. And you know,

996
00:58:58,800 --> 00:59:02,480
Speaker 2: he overshadowed beef in college, which is crazy, you know,

997
00:59:02,600 --> 00:59:03,240
Speaker 2: and how good?

998
00:59:03,320 --> 00:59:03,960
Speaker 1: Oh exactly.

999
00:59:04,040 --> 00:59:09,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, And those guys, those guys who are number one,

1000
00:59:09,480 --> 00:59:11,520
Speaker 3: number two players in the world for a few years

1001
00:59:11,520 --> 00:59:15,160
Speaker 3: in college and as amateurs almost always turn out to

1002
00:59:15,200 --> 00:59:18,040
Speaker 3: be at the very least top fifty guys.

1003
00:59:17,880 --> 00:59:18,400
Speaker 1: In the world.

1004
00:59:18,640 --> 00:59:21,280
Speaker 2: That's what I said to Tron the other day. He

1005
00:59:21,280 --> 00:59:23,640
Speaker 2: he but like, because like I still kind of I

1006
00:59:23,720 --> 00:59:26,560
Speaker 2: still am in on Casey Wittenberg. You know, I think

1007
00:59:26,560 --> 00:59:27,400
Speaker 2: he's gonna make it.

1008
00:59:27,400 --> 00:59:30,720
Speaker 1: It might feel a little long for Casey Puttenberg, but hey,

1009
00:59:30,760 --> 00:59:31,440
Speaker 1: I'm in on it.

1010
00:59:31,760 --> 00:59:34,320
Speaker 2: I haven't sold my property yet.

1011
00:59:35,000 --> 00:59:37,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, we'll see, all right.

1012
00:59:37,720 --> 00:59:41,880
Speaker 2: Sean Martin wants to know what's the next frontier for

1013
00:59:42,080 --> 00:59:46,080
Speaker 2: golf stats, and you know, how will they more accurately

1014
00:59:46,160 --> 00:59:51,080
Speaker 2: depict what occurs on the course? What's in the next frontier?

1015
00:59:51,080 --> 00:59:53,160
Speaker 2: He asked, like three questions in one.

1016
00:59:53,840 --> 00:59:56,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, Sean got a little greedy with that on, Yeah,

1017
00:59:57,720 --> 01:00:03,680
Speaker 3: I would say, just really create so we have strokes gained,

1018
01:00:03,720 --> 01:00:06,960
Speaker 3: which is which is fantastic and really helped us understand

1019
01:00:07,760 --> 01:00:11,440
Speaker 3: why players are getting it done and why they aren't.

1020
01:00:11,960 --> 01:00:12,960
Speaker 1: So I think that's great.

1021
01:00:13,440 --> 01:00:20,280
Speaker 3: The next step is to dig into maybe more granular examinations,

1022
01:00:20,280 --> 01:00:23,080
Speaker 3: sort of like that missfair Way stat I talked about earlier.

1023
01:00:26,040 --> 01:00:26,880
Speaker 1: There's a there was a.

1024
01:00:26,800 --> 01:00:29,800
Speaker 3: Great piece I can't remember who wrote it from last

1025
01:00:29,880 --> 01:00:32,800
Speaker 3: year or the year before about what makes Jordan Spieth

1026
01:00:33,040 --> 01:00:36,360
Speaker 3: such a great putter, And it's because he always gets

1027
01:00:36,360 --> 01:00:36,840
Speaker 3: it to the hole.

1028
01:00:36,880 --> 01:00:40,880
Speaker 1: He always gives it a chance. So I think a

1029
01:00:40,880 --> 01:00:41,680
Speaker 1: stat like that.

1030
01:00:41,640 --> 01:00:43,520
Speaker 3: Like who are the guys who are always giving it

1031
01:00:43,560 --> 01:00:46,040
Speaker 3: a chance versus the ones who are trying to diet

1032
01:00:46,120 --> 01:00:50,240
Speaker 3: into the hole? Just really these these new stats to

1033
01:00:50,280 --> 01:00:56,520
Speaker 3: help us understand the parts of a player's game. Uh,

1034
01:00:56,600 --> 01:00:59,760
Speaker 3: And that's what we've seen in other sports. Baseball has

1035
01:00:59,800 --> 01:01:04,320
Speaker 3: this this radar system which tracks everyone in the field

1036
01:01:04,400 --> 01:01:07,840
Speaker 3: now and so you can you can tell how far

1037
01:01:07,880 --> 01:01:10,840
Speaker 3: a player ran to catch a ball, and so they rank,

1038
01:01:11,000 --> 01:01:14,280
Speaker 3: you know, who's the fastest outfielder, you know, who makes

1039
01:01:14,360 --> 01:01:17,320
Speaker 3: more catches, who you know hits the ball the hardest

1040
01:01:18,360 --> 01:01:21,800
Speaker 3: and all those sort of stats are are you know,

1041
01:01:21,880 --> 01:01:24,920
Speaker 3: getting people more comfortable with these, It just gives you

1042
01:01:24,960 --> 01:01:28,080
Speaker 3: more tools for for someone like for someone like Sean

1043
01:01:28,160 --> 01:01:30,720
Speaker 3: to tell a story about a player, and you get

1044
01:01:30,720 --> 01:01:35,080
Speaker 3: fans interested in the broadcast can can use these things

1045
01:01:35,160 --> 01:01:37,200
Speaker 3: just just to tell the story a little bit better.

1046
01:01:37,760 --> 01:01:40,080
Speaker 3: So when Sam Saunders is out there, it's not just

1047
01:01:40,280 --> 01:01:43,560
Speaker 3: well he's Arnie's grandson. We can actually talk a little

1048
01:01:43,560 --> 01:01:45,800
Speaker 3: bit about a little bit about what makes him a

1049
01:01:45,840 --> 01:01:46,360
Speaker 3: good player.

1050
01:01:46,640 --> 01:01:51,480
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think that's you know, it's the out of

1051
01:01:51,520 --> 01:01:55,400
Speaker 2: the backs narratives are just awful. It's a you know,

1052
01:01:55,440 --> 01:01:59,240
Speaker 2: at least put some context behind why he's a professional

1053
01:01:59,560 --> 01:02:03,040
Speaker 2: golfer rather than he's, you know, our grandson of Arnold

1054
01:02:03,080 --> 01:02:06,720
Speaker 2: Palmer or friends with Jordan Speed. It's uh, the stats

1055
01:02:07,160 --> 01:02:11,320
Speaker 2: can fill that void. This kind of relates to what

1056
01:02:11,360 --> 01:02:14,520
Speaker 2: you were just talking about, And I think this is interesting,

1057
01:02:14,600 --> 01:02:18,480
Speaker 2: Like do you have currently had the ability with stats

1058
01:02:18,520 --> 01:02:21,280
Speaker 2: to tell who performs better on a back nine in

1059
01:02:21,360 --> 01:02:23,600
Speaker 2: a major or other bit like a nerve stat.

1060
01:02:25,240 --> 01:02:30,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, we do calculate a round basically looking at how

1061
01:02:30,440 --> 01:02:34,800
Speaker 3: someone plays in contention under like stressful rounds. We call

1062
01:02:34,840 --> 01:02:39,560
Speaker 3: it uh, and that just looks at if you enter

1063
01:02:39,640 --> 01:02:43,880
Speaker 3: around within a shot or two of the lead, how

1064
01:02:43,880 --> 01:02:47,040
Speaker 3: do you play with the lead versus how you normally play?

1065
01:02:47,160 --> 01:02:50,800
Speaker 3: So if you're so, if you're Rory mcilroyan, you normally

1066
01:02:50,840 --> 01:02:54,160
Speaker 3: beat the field by x amount? Then how do you

1067
01:02:54,160 --> 01:02:57,520
Speaker 3: play under pressure? And vice versa? If you're if you're

1068
01:02:57,560 --> 01:03:00,280
Speaker 3: six back going into the fourth round, how do you play?

1069
01:03:01,880 --> 01:03:03,880
Speaker 3: How do you play when there isn't as much to

1070
01:03:03,880 --> 01:03:04,280
Speaker 3: play for?

1071
01:03:04,960 --> 01:03:06,560
Speaker 1: Yeah?

1072
01:03:06,600 --> 01:03:08,480
Speaker 3: So, yeah, and there's a lot of work to be

1073
01:03:08,560 --> 01:03:11,680
Speaker 3: done in that area. We just just in the last

1074
01:03:11,680 --> 01:03:15,000
Speaker 3: few weeks we've rolled out a basically a win probability

1075
01:03:15,040 --> 01:03:20,600
Speaker 3: model where we're going to be tracking with more exact numbers.

1076
01:03:20,640 --> 01:03:23,840
Speaker 3: How people if you have a forty percent chance by

1077
01:03:23,840 --> 01:03:26,680
Speaker 3: our model on the tenthal the final round, you know,

1078
01:03:26,760 --> 01:03:29,760
Speaker 3: how do you play going in from there? So I

1079
01:03:29,760 --> 01:03:32,200
Speaker 3: think the data is out there, it's just a matter of,

1080
01:03:33,120 --> 01:03:34,360
Speaker 3: you know, putting it together.

1081
01:03:35,080 --> 01:03:40,040
Speaker 2: Who would be who's like the best in contention by

1082
01:03:40,600 --> 01:03:41,880
Speaker 2: your metrics?

1083
01:03:42,760 --> 01:03:47,320
Speaker 3: So neither of these guys have been in contention very often.

1084
01:03:47,640 --> 01:03:50,760
Speaker 3: I think only about a dozen or fifteen times. But

1085
01:03:51,320 --> 01:03:55,120
Speaker 3: Thomas Peters and Matt Fitzpatrick pretty much always have gotten

1086
01:03:55,120 --> 01:03:58,520
Speaker 3: the job done. When they're in contention, or at least

1087
01:03:58,720 --> 01:04:01,600
Speaker 3: when I say got the job on, they've played better

1088
01:04:01,640 --> 01:04:03,920
Speaker 3: than they normally play in other rounds.

1089
01:04:06,400 --> 01:04:09,800
Speaker 2: I'm a big fan of Fitzpatrick. Do the stats prove out,

1090
01:04:10,080 --> 01:04:14,840
Speaker 2: you know, like is he a really you know, like

1091
01:04:15,120 --> 01:04:17,200
Speaker 2: tell us a little bit about like what makes him

1092
01:04:17,240 --> 01:04:17,680
Speaker 2: so good?

1093
01:04:19,520 --> 01:04:23,840
Speaker 3: His ball striking's excellent and his putting is excellent, and

1094
01:04:23,920 --> 01:04:30,520
Speaker 3: those are two pretty decent cornerstones to build your game around.

1095
01:04:30,560 --> 01:04:35,840
Speaker 2: Comparison for him.

1096
01:04:34,120 --> 01:04:38,920
Speaker 3: I think Jordan Speith is a longer hitter than him,

1097
01:04:39,280 --> 01:04:43,120
Speaker 3: and I think I think.

1098
01:04:43,080 --> 01:04:45,800
Speaker 1: Fits might be a little bit better of a ball striker.

1099
01:04:46,280 --> 01:04:47,000
Speaker 1: Speith kind of.

1100
01:04:46,960 --> 01:04:49,600
Speaker 3: Has these good years in these bad years, But I

1101
01:04:49,600 --> 01:04:53,240
Speaker 3: think overall that's not a bad comparison for what for

1102
01:04:53,320 --> 01:04:56,120
Speaker 3: what Matt could be if he added some more distance

1103
01:04:56,200 --> 01:05:00,560
Speaker 3: to his game. That's sort of like a you know,

1104
01:05:00,720 --> 01:05:03,760
Speaker 3: a high high target for him to reach.

1105
01:05:04,440 --> 01:05:07,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, like I imagine if he could have

1106
01:05:07,280 --> 01:05:10,800
Speaker 2: like some sort of like a Justin Rose like renaissance

1107
01:05:11,000 --> 01:05:13,320
Speaker 2: like that. What that guy did with to his game,

1108
01:05:13,400 --> 01:05:16,920
Speaker 2: it like is unbelievable to me, with like how he

1109
01:05:16,960 --> 01:05:19,479
Speaker 2: added like thirty yards, Like it's not easy to add

1110
01:05:19,560 --> 01:05:21,280
Speaker 2: thirty yards to your t shot.

1111
01:05:22,320 --> 01:05:24,600
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, absolutely, And there's been a handful of guys

1112
01:05:24,640 --> 01:05:27,400
Speaker 3: who've on that. Brendan Steel, like I mentioned earlier, but

1113
01:05:27,640 --> 01:05:30,440
Speaker 3: Justin Rose is a completely different player than he was

1114
01:05:30,880 --> 01:05:34,760
Speaker 3: even eight or ten years ago. So yeah, I think

1115
01:05:34,800 --> 01:05:40,240
Speaker 3: that's definitely in play for for fits. And when he

1116
01:05:40,320 --> 01:05:44,040
Speaker 3: already comes in here putting extremely well and ball striking

1117
01:05:44,120 --> 01:05:47,440
Speaker 3: is great, he could has a really high potential.

1118
01:05:47,760 --> 01:05:50,480
Speaker 2: Okay, I got I got a quick question for you.

1119
01:05:50,920 --> 01:05:56,520
Speaker 2: And next first time winner Major winner, who's it going

1120
01:05:56,600 --> 01:05:56,800
Speaker 2: to be?

1121
01:05:58,560 --> 01:06:01,840
Speaker 3: Uh So, who among the leak guys have one? One Fowler,

1122
01:06:02,000 --> 01:06:03,760
Speaker 3: Aduckie and John Rahm.

1123
01:06:04,240 --> 01:06:06,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then you've got a ton of young guys.

1124
01:06:06,440 --> 01:06:08,960
Speaker 2: You've got you know, you've well, you've got Paul Casey's

1125
01:06:09,040 --> 01:06:20,880
Speaker 2: right there, Justin Thomas. You've got Norrin Hatton Coocher. Yeah.

1126
01:06:21,000 --> 01:06:23,880
Speaker 3: So so I can't say Coocher, I'm like get blocked

1127
01:06:23,920 --> 01:06:25,040
Speaker 3: on Twitter by some people.

1128
01:06:25,200 --> 01:06:29,080
Speaker 2: No, that's fine. You're in a you're in a safe

1129
01:06:29,080 --> 01:06:33,120
Speaker 2: haven here. We there's not as much hate on I

1130
01:06:33,200 --> 01:06:33,520
Speaker 2: kind of.

1131
01:06:33,960 --> 01:06:37,560
Speaker 3: I would say the next next Major winner is probably

1132
01:06:37,640 --> 01:06:42,360
Speaker 3: rom first time. I think his game sets up well

1133
01:06:42,440 --> 01:06:45,080
Speaker 3: for Aaron Hills. I think it sets up well for

1134
01:06:45,560 --> 01:06:51,520
Speaker 3: Quail Hollow too, so I think he'll be in serious

1135
01:06:51,520 --> 01:06:52,640
Speaker 3: contingent of both of those.

1136
01:06:53,240 --> 01:06:56,480
Speaker 2: It is interesting. So we I had this talk with

1137
01:06:56,960 --> 01:07:01,080
Speaker 2: Starson and Tron and and DJ after them, and I

1138
01:07:01,120 --> 01:07:04,480
Speaker 2: was talking about how I'd probably take if I was

1139
01:07:04,560 --> 01:07:06,680
Speaker 2: if it was a major and I had three guys,

1140
01:07:06,680 --> 01:07:09,640
Speaker 2: I think Justin Rose would be in my three, like

1141
01:07:09,960 --> 01:07:13,840
Speaker 2: with you know, probably Dustin and and Rory? Who would

1142
01:07:13,840 --> 01:07:17,400
Speaker 2: be your Dustin and Speth? Who would be your three

1143
01:07:17,480 --> 01:07:20,680
Speaker 2: that you'd pick if it was every major championship, you

1144
01:07:20,760 --> 01:07:23,640
Speaker 2: get your top three and it you know, regardless, you know,

1145
01:07:23,640 --> 01:07:27,880
Speaker 2: knowing the courses, Yeah.

1146
01:07:27,680 --> 01:07:31,080
Speaker 3: I think I would pick speF because his game kind

1147
01:07:31,120 --> 01:07:32,960
Speaker 3: of travels to a lot of different courses.

1148
01:07:33,360 --> 01:07:34,360
Speaker 1: H uh.

1149
01:07:34,400 --> 01:07:38,160
Speaker 3: And then DJ and Rory because they're the best. So

1150
01:07:38,560 --> 01:07:39,720
Speaker 3: that isn't very exciting.

1151
01:07:39,760 --> 01:07:43,200
Speaker 2: But so I'm off base going with Rose.

1152
01:07:44,480 --> 01:07:47,840
Speaker 3: I mean, Roses Rose is a great player. He's right

1153
01:07:47,920 --> 01:07:50,760
Speaker 3: up there in terms of ball striking travels.

1154
01:07:50,760 --> 01:07:55,000
Speaker 2: So, okay, all right, we're gonna get you out of here.

1155
01:07:55,120 --> 01:07:58,120
Speaker 2: You've been more than gracious with your time and listening

1156
01:07:58,160 --> 01:08:03,040
Speaker 2: to my stupid questions, So let's go. Let's go with

1157
01:08:03,160 --> 01:08:07,280
Speaker 2: our tradition of overrated underrated. So you just you know,

1158
01:08:07,640 --> 01:08:10,040
Speaker 2: you got to decide if there're you know, no middle

1159
01:08:10,080 --> 01:08:10,600
Speaker 2: ground here.

1160
01:08:11,240 --> 01:08:13,000
Speaker 1: All right, Oh I'm ready.

1161
01:08:13,080 --> 01:08:15,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right. Practice rounds.

1162
01:08:17,200 --> 01:08:19,679
Speaker 1: Underrated as long as you do them right.

1163
01:08:20,600 --> 01:08:22,360
Speaker 2: What what do you have to do to do them right?

1164
01:08:24,560 --> 01:08:28,320
Speaker 3: I we don't really work with players in terms of

1165
01:08:28,360 --> 01:08:31,640
Speaker 3: practice round type stuff, but I'd like to turn a

1166
01:08:31,640 --> 01:08:33,960
Speaker 3: few guys into some guinea pigs and figure.

1167
01:08:33,720 --> 01:08:37,160
Speaker 1: Out how to do them right. Well, that's that's where

1168
01:08:37,200 --> 01:08:37,840
Speaker 1: I'm coming from.

1169
01:08:37,960 --> 01:08:41,040
Speaker 2: I'll do your I played practice rounds for these tournament

1170
01:08:41,120 --> 01:08:42,920
Speaker 2: What would you do if you were me in a

1171
01:08:42,960 --> 01:08:43,719
Speaker 2: practice round?

1172
01:08:45,520 --> 01:08:48,280
Speaker 3: So if you play a course that the pros play

1173
01:08:48,320 --> 01:08:53,080
Speaker 3: every year, I think we would just walk around and

1174
01:08:54,040 --> 01:08:57,840
Speaker 3: pick out maybe eight key shots in the realm and

1175
01:08:58,120 --> 01:09:05,360
Speaker 3: really talk through caddy stat geek and player and really

1176
01:09:05,400 --> 01:09:09,920
Speaker 3: talk through uh strategy in terms of those shots, you know,

1177
01:09:09,960 --> 01:09:13,160
Speaker 3: bringing data and you know how comfortable a player is

1178
01:09:13,240 --> 01:09:15,120
Speaker 3: hitting a certain shot and and all that.

1179
01:09:15,000 --> 01:09:15,679
Speaker 1: Sort of stuff.

1180
01:09:16,320 --> 01:09:19,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a that's a good point. It's like because

1181
01:09:19,080 --> 01:09:22,640
Speaker 2: like when you're uncomfortable, that's usually when you hit bad shots.

1182
01:09:23,920 --> 01:09:26,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's why I try not to stray too much

1183
01:09:26,840 --> 01:09:32,599
Speaker 3: into criticizing players for laying up or you know, whatever

1184
01:09:33,080 --> 01:09:37,360
Speaker 3: during tournaments is they might not be super comfortable hitting

1185
01:09:37,439 --> 01:09:41,400
Speaker 3: that particular shot in that particular win to that particular

1186
01:09:41,439 --> 01:09:44,680
Speaker 3: green that day. Yeah, and that the solution to that

1187
01:09:44,840 --> 01:09:47,120
Speaker 3: is just, you know, realize that that shot might be

1188
01:09:47,160 --> 01:09:48,880
Speaker 3: coming in and try to prepare for it.

1189
01:09:49,479 --> 01:09:55,599
Speaker 2: Interesting, all right, The like the equipment transition period when

1190
01:09:55,600 --> 01:10:03,519
Speaker 2: you change equipment overrated, I think so too. It's so similar.

1191
01:10:03,560 --> 01:10:05,960
Speaker 2: Do you do you what do you guys see like that?

1192
01:10:06,080 --> 01:10:08,000
Speaker 2: I'm turning all these quick questions in.

1193
01:10:08,000 --> 01:10:11,120
Speaker 3: The long one. Yeah, it's not something that I know

1194
01:10:11,240 --> 01:10:13,400
Speaker 3: too much about. I can't give you that much of

1195
01:10:13,439 --> 01:10:14,519
Speaker 3: an informed opinion.

1196
01:10:15,760 --> 01:10:16,519
Speaker 2: Laying up.

1197
01:10:19,320 --> 01:10:25,240
Speaker 3: Overrated, all right, So be aggressive, be aggressiveness.

1198
01:10:27,320 --> 01:10:29,200
Speaker 2: Jet lag and international travel.

1199
01:10:31,479 --> 01:10:34,280
Speaker 3: Oh wow, this is definitely properly rated. I think people

1200
01:10:34,360 --> 01:10:39,440
Speaker 3: really get it, though, I would say, let's say underrated,

1201
01:10:39,439 --> 01:10:43,439
Speaker 3: because you still see guys who are flying back from

1202
01:10:43,760 --> 01:10:47,200
Speaker 3: Asia to playing tournaments the next week, which is crazy

1203
01:10:47,240 --> 01:10:47,840
Speaker 3: to my mind.

1204
01:10:48,640 --> 01:10:51,040
Speaker 2: Doing it this week, Yeah.

1205
01:10:51,600 --> 01:10:56,200
Speaker 3: Buba's doing it. There are a few guys who played

1206
01:10:56,200 --> 01:10:59,519
Speaker 3: in the European Tour event in India the week before

1207
01:10:59,560 --> 01:11:04,000
Speaker 3: the match play, and that's basically flying around the world.

1208
01:11:05,600 --> 01:11:07,360
Speaker 1: We saw, at least.

1209
01:11:07,200 --> 01:11:11,200
Speaker 3: Anecdotally what happened to speak a year ago. Yeah, I

1210
01:11:11,240 --> 01:11:16,040
Speaker 3: think underrated in terms of how players make their decisions.

1211
01:11:16,479 --> 01:11:22,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm curious. You know. The last question now is

1212
01:11:22,600 --> 01:11:26,600
Speaker 2: Bubba and the golf ball. Has there been like a

1213
01:11:26,720 --> 01:11:31,160
Speaker 2: statistical change since he switched to the putt put both?

1214
01:11:32,640 --> 01:11:36,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's terrible now. The ball strikings bad.

1215
01:11:37,880 --> 01:11:42,559
Speaker 3: His wedge play is bad, which makes sense if you're

1216
01:11:42,560 --> 01:11:46,040
Speaker 3: gonna play a you know, if that's an inferior ball,

1217
01:11:46,720 --> 01:11:52,000
Speaker 3: if it's something he isn't used to. But who knows

1218
01:11:52,280 --> 01:11:54,760
Speaker 3: who has any insight into that head?

1219
01:11:54,840 --> 01:11:57,479
Speaker 2: So do you think JB and them are going to

1220
01:11:57,600 --> 01:12:00,599
Speaker 2: use the Volvic during alternate shot?

1221
01:12:02,960 --> 01:12:06,840
Speaker 3: I hope not for their sake. I can't imagine what

1222
01:12:06,880 --> 01:12:09,800
Speaker 3: it would be like to for JB. Holmes to use

1223
01:12:09,840 --> 01:12:12,720
Speaker 3: a to use an orange or a pink ball that

1224
01:12:12,760 --> 01:12:18,559
Speaker 3: he's never hit before and for nine holes or even eighteen.

1225
01:12:18,920 --> 01:12:22,040
Speaker 2: I remember I one time hit my mom's like women's

1226
01:12:22,080 --> 01:12:25,400
Speaker 2: ball and the way it launches with like a nine

1227
01:12:25,439 --> 01:12:31,720
Speaker 2: iron is insanely different. Yeah, Like I couldn't even imagine

1228
01:12:31,840 --> 01:12:34,479
Speaker 2: playing something like that and like trying to get used

1229
01:12:34,479 --> 01:12:34,760
Speaker 2: to it.

1230
01:12:36,360 --> 01:12:37,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's.

1231
01:12:38,800 --> 01:12:41,599
Speaker 3: To play overrated, underrated on the ball thing I think

1232
01:12:42,080 --> 01:12:44,000
Speaker 3: it seems like it would be something that I'd at

1233
01:12:44,080 --> 01:12:48,240
Speaker 3: least want my partner to spend some time with it

1234
01:12:48,320 --> 01:12:52,000
Speaker 3: the week before and in practice arounds getting used to it.

1235
01:12:51,400 --> 01:12:54,960
Speaker 2: So, like the million dollars a year he gets paid

1236
01:12:54,960 --> 01:12:58,759
Speaker 2: by them, I think personally that he's losing that inn

1237
01:12:58,800 --> 01:12:59,600
Speaker 2: course earnings.

1238
01:13:00,400 --> 01:13:02,879
Speaker 3: Oh, if he's playing like he is now, he's losing

1239
01:13:02,920 --> 01:13:05,679
Speaker 3: more than that. He's like a he's like a five

1240
01:13:05,720 --> 01:13:07,920
Speaker 3: million dollar player. If he plays like he is the

1241
01:13:08,040 --> 01:13:11,519
Speaker 3: last few years and playing like this, he's you know,

1242
01:13:12,720 --> 01:13:17,000
Speaker 3: he's gonna make three million dollars less probably if he

1243
01:13:17,040 --> 01:13:18,120
Speaker 3: can't figure something out.

1244
01:13:19,400 --> 01:13:21,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, good smart decision making.

1245
01:13:21,640 --> 01:13:24,200
Speaker 3: But he knows he might turn the round and make

1246
01:13:24,320 --> 01:13:26,519
Speaker 3: us look at Lake idiots for criticizing him.

1247
01:13:26,520 --> 01:13:30,040
Speaker 2: But yeah, the Vulvic Revolution is happening. He just has

1248
01:13:30,080 --> 01:13:33,920
Speaker 2: to get used to it. Yeah, he could just start

1249
01:13:33,960 --> 01:13:35,559
Speaker 2: painting the ball too, you know.

1250
01:13:36,600 --> 01:13:40,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, do the what was it Tiger used to do that? Yeah?

1251
01:13:40,520 --> 01:13:44,320
Speaker 3: Have somebody paint the Nike's the Swish one ya. Yeah,

1252
01:13:44,360 --> 01:13:46,600
Speaker 3: I think he might just I might want to just

1253
01:13:46,600 --> 01:13:49,599
Speaker 3: go to title list and say, hey, can you can

1254
01:13:49,640 --> 01:13:51,080
Speaker 3: you put some paint on these balls?

1255
01:13:51,479 --> 01:13:56,080
Speaker 2: Yeah? Well, we'll get out on the Bubba Talk. Thanks

1256
01:13:56,080 --> 01:14:00,200
Speaker 2: for coming on and uh, if anybody doesn't follow Jake, Uh,

1257
01:14:00,560 --> 01:14:03,560
Speaker 2: it's a great Twitter follow. If people are interested in

1258
01:14:03,960 --> 01:14:07,640
Speaker 2: Fifteenth Club, I guess you just find a out of

1259
01:14:07,680 --> 01:14:08,400
Speaker 2: contact for him.

1260
01:14:09,680 --> 01:14:12,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, we have a contact form on the website and

1261
01:14:12,479 --> 01:14:14,920
Speaker 3: also just follow us on Twitter and we're you know,

1262
01:14:14,920 --> 01:14:16,080
Speaker 3: we're happy to talk on there.

1263
01:14:16,280 --> 01:14:18,040
Speaker 1: It's at Fifteenth Club

1264
01:14:19,800 --> 01:14:22,599
Speaker 3: And always you can reach out to me too, So awesome,

1265
01:14:23,200 --> 01:14:24,160
Speaker 3: happy to talk golf.