WEBVTT - Bengals Booth Podcast: What About Now 0:00:03.720 --> 0:00:06.640 Hi, get everybody. I'm Dan Horde and thanks for downloading 0:00:06.640 --> 0:00:13.480 The Bengals Booth podcast. The What About Now addition, as 0:00:13.520 --> 0:00:17.240 I discuss a possible Joe Burrow contract extension and other 0:00:17.400 --> 0:00:22.560 offseason priorities with Brad Spielberger, the salary cap expert from 0:00:22.560 --> 0:00:26.119 Pro Football Focus. And speaking of Joe Burrow, there's a 0:00:26.200 --> 0:00:29.720 book coming out soon that details his life story to 0:00:29.840 --> 0:00:34.160 date from Athens to Ohio State, to LSU and ultimately 0:00:34.200 --> 0:00:38.519 to Cincinnati. I'll talk to author Scott Person. The Bengals 0:00:38.560 --> 0:00:41.279 Booth Podcast is brought to you by Paycorps. More than 0:00:41.320 --> 0:00:45.639 twenty nine thousand customers trust Paycorps to help them recruit, 0:00:45.880 --> 0:00:50.400 pay engage and retain employees. Learn more at paycorp dot 0:00:50.400 --> 0:00:55.000 com and buy Bengals Picks and Ultimate Bengals. They're free 0:00:55.000 --> 0:00:58.160 to play with tickets and signed merchandise up for grabs. 0:00:58.520 --> 0:01:02.400 Find both inside the Bengals Half Now. Here's a quick 0:01:02.440 --> 0:01:04.920 reminder that you can add the latest edition of this 0:01:05.000 --> 0:01:08.520 podcast delivered right to your phone, tablet, or computer by 0:01:08.600 --> 0:01:12.880 subscribing wherever you get your podcasts. It's the greatest thing 0:01:12.959 --> 0:01:18.920 since Peter King recognizing my hometown prior to the last 0:01:18.959 --> 0:01:22.240 six Super Bowl sportswriter Peter King has driven to work 0:01:22.600 --> 0:01:24.800 with one of the two head coaches about a week 0:01:24.840 --> 0:01:27.600 before the game. He did it with Zach Taylor last 0:01:27.680 --> 0:01:32.280 year and Philadelphia's Nick Sirianni this year. After reading about 0:01:32.280 --> 0:01:35.319 his ride with coach Sirianni, I shared with Peter the 0:01:35.400 --> 0:01:38.800 Knick's dad was my high school track coach and science teacher, 0:01:39.160 --> 0:01:43.160 and that commissioner Roger Goodell was also born in our 0:01:43.200 --> 0:01:47.000 hometown of Jamestown, New York. Peter took it from there 0:01:47.200 --> 0:01:50.960 and did some research before listing the most famous people 0:01:51.080 --> 0:01:54.880 born in Jamestown in his Football Morning in America column 0:01:54.920 --> 0:01:58.040 the day after the Super Bowl. He correctly had Lucy 0:01:58.080 --> 0:02:01.400 o Ball ranked number one. He had me way too 0:02:01.480 --> 0:02:04.920 high at number eight. But in any case, my friends 0:02:04.960 --> 0:02:06.960 and family got a big kick out of it, and 0:02:07.080 --> 0:02:09.919 it's always nice to see Jamestown, with its population of 0:02:10.040 --> 0:02:14.800 roughly twenty eight thousand, get a little publicity. Now let's 0:02:14.800 --> 0:02:18.560 get to this week's guests. Brad Spielberger, who has a 0:02:18.639 --> 0:02:22.400 law degree from Tulane University, is the salary cap expert 0:02:22.440 --> 0:02:26.480 for Pro Football Focus. Right now on PF you can 0:02:26.520 --> 0:02:30.200 find his list of the top one hundred players set 0:02:30.240 --> 0:02:33.520 to enter free agency. Jesse Bates his number four on 0:02:33.600 --> 0:02:38.040 his list, Von Bell forty six, Jermaine Pratt fifty second, 0:02:38.320 --> 0:02:42.400 and Hayden Hurst is seventy fifth. Brad joined me to 0:02:42.520 --> 0:02:46.400 discuss those players, as well as possible replacements if they 0:02:46.440 --> 0:02:50.280 don't return. But we start with the most important offseason 0:02:50.320 --> 0:02:56.239 issue for the Bengals, and it's possible ramifications. Brad, let's 0:02:56.280 --> 0:02:59.640 get right into the topic of Joe Burrows contract. He's 0:02:59.680 --> 0:03:02.320 not a free agent. There's a year left on his deal. 0:03:02.520 --> 0:03:05.040 The Bengals have a fifth year option the following year. 0:03:05.120 --> 0:03:08.760 They could franchise tag him multiple times after that if needed. 0:03:09.240 --> 0:03:12.960 So other than never wanting him to reach free agency, 0:03:13.639 --> 0:03:17.400 what are the practical reasons to get this done now? Yeah, so, 0:03:17.480 --> 0:03:20.280 first and foremost, obviously you want to keep your franchise 0:03:20.320 --> 0:03:22.840 player happy, but that is, you know, more of a 0:03:22.919 --> 0:03:25.960 non football related, non financial related reason. The big reason 0:03:26.040 --> 0:03:29.280 from a salary cap and contract and cash flow standpoint is, 0:03:29.520 --> 0:03:32.120 we know this market at quarterback is always going to 0:03:32.160 --> 0:03:34.520 grow and grow and grow. So the earlier you can 0:03:34.600 --> 0:03:36.960 get these deals done, Yes, it's gonna look massive when 0:03:37.000 --> 0:03:39.000 you first do it, but then a couple of years 0:03:39.000 --> 0:03:41.200 down the line. You know, Josh Allen making forty three 0:03:41.240 --> 0:03:43.680 million dollars a year now is gonna look like pennies 0:03:43.720 --> 0:03:45.960 when when Joe Boyle gets his deal done. So you 0:03:46.000 --> 0:03:48.400 just get it done. And look the twenty twenty one class. 0:03:48.400 --> 0:03:51.440 They've got Trevor Lawrence, these guys coming up right behind him. 0:03:51.440 --> 0:03:53.000 So you want to get it done early because that 0:03:53.120 --> 0:03:57.640 market's never gonna stop growing. At the Super Bowl, Jamar 0:03:57.760 --> 0:04:00.680 Chase said, and I'm paraphrasing a little bit, Joe wants 0:04:00.720 --> 0:04:03.480 to sign a contract that allows him to keep his weapons. 0:04:04.160 --> 0:04:07.680 Nobody expects Joe Burrow to take a quote unquote hometown discount. 0:04:07.760 --> 0:04:10.920 So how did the Bengals pay him roughly fifty million 0:04:10.960 --> 0:04:14.360 dollars a year and still have room for others? Yeah? 0:04:14.440 --> 0:04:16.359 I don't expect him to either, and he has no 0:04:16.440 --> 0:04:18.200 reason to. You know, Frankly, I get that you want 0:04:18.240 --> 0:04:20.039 to keep winning and all these things, but he is 0:04:20.240 --> 0:04:23.039 an upper echelon quarterback that deserves the money. That reflects that. 0:04:23.120 --> 0:04:25.680 I think the way you can do it, though, structure 0:04:25.800 --> 0:04:27.760 is always super important. So you know, we talked a 0:04:27.800 --> 0:04:30.599 lot about Patrick mahomes is ten year, four hundred and 0:04:30.600 --> 0:04:32.680 fifty ye or whatever number you get seen him thrown 0:04:32.680 --> 0:04:35.200 out there, that doesn't really matter. You know, his cash 0:04:35.240 --> 0:04:38.120 flows were very weak in the early years. He was 0:04:38.160 --> 0:04:40.599 willing to do that in part because of this rolling 0:04:40.640 --> 0:04:45.040 guarantee structure where he was protected through many, many years 0:04:45.040 --> 0:04:48.080 of the deal because essentially each year, each off season 0:04:48.440 --> 0:04:51.320 money for him two years down the road becomes fully guaranteed. 0:04:51.400 --> 0:04:53.960 So the cash flows early on enabled them to keep 0:04:54.040 --> 0:04:56.960 Chris Jones, to keep a bunch of players they obviously 0:04:57.000 --> 0:04:58.760 trained Tiree kill, but they could have fit that if 0:04:58.760 --> 0:05:01.400 they wanted to. They're actually twentieth in cash spending this 0:05:01.640 --> 0:05:04.280 past season, so that's a burrow could do it is 0:05:04.560 --> 0:05:07.520 you in theory you keep smaller cash flows up front 0:05:07.560 --> 0:05:10.200 and in turn smaller cap hits up front. But the 0:05:10.240 --> 0:05:13.600 Bengals had this rolling guarantee structure to say, you're protected 0:05:13.680 --> 0:05:16.159 for four or five years down the road. We're just 0:05:16.160 --> 0:05:18.120 not going to get to that money right away. B 0:05:18.240 --> 0:05:20.040 All again, it doesn't have to say yes that, but 0:05:20.360 --> 0:05:22.760 that is the way that they could keep spending on 0:05:22.839 --> 0:05:26.000 other players around him in the interim. So did the 0:05:26.080 --> 0:05:29.919 Chiefs provide a blueprint by winning the Super Bowl for 0:05:30.080 --> 0:05:32.760 how you can pay a quarterback and still keep good 0:05:32.800 --> 0:05:35.800 players around him. Yeah, to a degree, I think they did. 0:05:36.240 --> 0:05:38.240 You know, this year was the first year where Mahomes 0:05:38.240 --> 0:05:40.520 had that kind of really big cap hit and a 0:05:40.600 --> 0:05:43.720 larger cash outlay than the early years the deal. They 0:05:43.760 --> 0:05:46.159 kind of kept it, you know, near his fifth year option, 0:05:46.200 --> 0:05:48.200 you know, kind of reflect what that would have looked 0:05:48.200 --> 0:05:50.720 like if they had gone that route, which a lot 0:05:50.760 --> 0:05:53.039 of teams have done. The bills kind of the same thing. 0:05:53.800 --> 0:05:55.720 And they also just were able to push money down 0:05:55.720 --> 0:05:58.520 the line cat money that is with option bonuses and 0:05:58.560 --> 0:06:02.120 restructures of roster bonus and all these things. So yes, 0:06:02.200 --> 0:06:04.560 that they did show the blueprint. Like I said, I mean, 0:06:04.720 --> 0:06:06.960 you're keeping a twenty million per year defensive lineman and 0:06:07.000 --> 0:06:09.520 Chris Jones and all these guys that you want to keep. 0:06:09.680 --> 0:06:11.160 Frank Clark made a good amount of money in the 0:06:11.240 --> 0:06:13.919 last couple of years as well, because, you know, because 0:06:13.960 --> 0:06:17.400 Mahomes conceded on you know, how he received his money. 0:06:18.200 --> 0:06:20.919 We are chatting with Brad Spielberger, the salary cap analyst 0:06:20.920 --> 0:06:24.719 for Pro Football Focus, how realistic is it to extend 0:06:24.760 --> 0:06:29.120 Burrow and still have room for both Tee Haggens and 0:06:29.200 --> 0:06:32.320 Jamar Chase. You know, I know this answer is not 0:06:32.360 --> 0:06:35.919 going to be super well received, but I'm less bullish 0:06:35.920 --> 0:06:38.920 and less optimistic that all three of those guys are 0:06:39.040 --> 0:06:43.120 going to sign veteran contracts in Cincinnati. I mean, realistically, 0:06:43.120 --> 0:06:46.200 we're talking about probably one hundred million dollars for three players. 0:06:46.200 --> 0:06:47.960 So like, once you get into it, because I think 0:06:47.960 --> 0:06:50.920 Burrow's gonna get fifty plus, I think this offseason, Haggens 0:06:50.920 --> 0:06:53.200 is looking at over twenty million dollars per year. And 0:06:53.200 --> 0:06:55.920 then by the time Jamar Chase is up, and unlike Burrow, 0:06:56.000 --> 0:06:59.440 you've realistically more often seen every other position, the teams 0:06:59.440 --> 0:07:01.160 will let the guy I get into that fourth year 0:07:01.240 --> 0:07:03.440 going into the fifth year option, so Chase, there is 0:07:03.440 --> 0:07:05.920 still some time left. But you know, nevertheless, by the 0:07:05.920 --> 0:07:07.839 time he signs, he might be signing a thirty million 0:07:07.880 --> 0:07:10.520 per year contract. I think he's playing the way he's 0:07:10.560 --> 0:07:13.120 been playing. So again, I'm not saying this is some 0:07:13.160 --> 0:07:15.920 definitive thing. I don't know anything about it. I think 0:07:15.960 --> 0:07:18.240 Tee Higgins is going to be a very very interesting 0:07:18.280 --> 0:07:21.480 storyline this offseason, and maybe it does get done, but 0:07:21.520 --> 0:07:24.560 I don't think it's gonna get done anytime soon. I'm 0:07:24.640 --> 0:07:27.480 like burrow T was a second round pick, so they 0:07:27.520 --> 0:07:29.880 don't have the fifth year option with him. The same 0:07:30.000 --> 0:07:33.080 is true for Logan Wilson. We know the Bengals would 0:07:33.080 --> 0:07:36.040 love to extend all three of those guys if they could. 0:07:36.480 --> 0:07:39.760 What would a market look like for Logan Wilson. Yeah, 0:07:40.040 --> 0:07:42.080 and so I think he is why I've kind of 0:07:42.320 --> 0:07:44.480 convinced myself we're not going to see Jermaine Pratt back 0:07:44.640 --> 0:07:47.240 and some of the other defendencive players, bon Bell, Jesse Bates, 0:07:47.400 --> 0:07:49.120 you know, because I do think they want to keep 0:07:49.200 --> 0:07:51.440 Logan Wilson in the fold. Look, I think he's one 0:07:51.440 --> 0:07:53.800 of the better off ball linebackers the NFL. I'm a 0:07:53.880 --> 0:07:56.120 very good coverage player and a good in areas that 0:07:56.160 --> 0:07:59.640 matter in today's NFL. I don't think the top of 0:07:59.640 --> 0:08:02.320 the market the rukuand spent twenty million per year range, 0:08:02.400 --> 0:08:04.520 but I think he's looking, you know, in the fifteen 0:08:04.560 --> 0:08:06.320 to eighteen million per year range. He is one of 0:08:06.360 --> 0:08:09.480 the better players at the position, has been largely durable 0:08:09.520 --> 0:08:12.480 over his career, and I think also they've shown, you know, 0:08:12.520 --> 0:08:15.200 they trust him in every scenario. I know Prett was 0:08:15.200 --> 0:08:17.640 getting upset on Twitter and you know about not playing 0:08:17.640 --> 0:08:20.200 on third downs and things of that nature. Levand Wilson's 0:08:20.200 --> 0:08:22.560 their guy that they clearly show he's their number one 0:08:22.560 --> 0:08:24.880 guy defense, So you know, are they going to go 0:08:24.920 --> 0:08:27.240 there and extend him early is probably a different question, 0:08:27.280 --> 0:08:29.760 but he's in that kind of second tier of off 0:08:29.800 --> 0:08:33.640 ball linebacker contracts. In my opinion, the Bengals do have 0:08:33.960 --> 0:08:37.480 pending free agents five starters from the end of last 0:08:37.480 --> 0:08:41.160 season on offense, Hayden Hurst on defense, Jesse Bates, Von Bell, 0:08:41.280 --> 0:08:45.000 Jermaine Pratt, and Eli Apple. Who would you extend and 0:08:45.160 --> 0:08:48.320 how much would it cost? Well, my guess is miss 0:08:48.400 --> 0:08:50.719 would be like missing my choice. But my guess is 0:08:50.760 --> 0:08:54.120 that neither safety is back. Maybe von Bell I would 0:08:54.120 --> 0:08:56.560 be shocked if Jesse Bates is a Bengal next year. Um, 0:08:56.640 --> 0:08:58.760 Jermaine Pratt I think is not going to be there, 0:08:58.800 --> 0:09:00.760 like I mentioned, and then Apple, I mean, if he 0:09:00.800 --> 0:09:03.240 signs another one year, three or four million dollars deal, 0:09:03.240 --> 0:09:07.040 you probably can make that work. Hurst is interesting, right, 0:09:07.080 --> 0:09:09.319 So the tight end market is very strange right now, 0:09:09.360 --> 0:09:11.160 where the top of the market is kind of capped 0:09:11.200 --> 0:09:13.599 by George Kittle and Travis Kelsey and Darren Waller to 0:09:13.679 --> 0:09:16.480 a degree, but all these second tier guys that are, 0:09:16.480 --> 0:09:18.880 you know, not the caliver of that player, are getting 0:09:18.920 --> 0:09:21.960 twelve thirteen million dollars a year. If Hurst wants that, 0:09:22.000 --> 0:09:23.640 they're not going to give it to him. But I 0:09:23.720 --> 0:09:25.520 think if he's willing to settle for I don't know, 0:09:25.559 --> 0:09:28.040 maybe not you know, three years, twenty seven millions something 0:09:28.080 --> 0:09:30.400 like that, which is even below the market I kind 0:09:30.400 --> 0:09:34.200 of projected for him on our offseason projections. But I 0:09:34.240 --> 0:09:36.520 think maybe you can make that work. But even that 0:09:36.559 --> 0:09:39.400 seems like a stretch. Realistically, I think it's possible we 0:09:39.480 --> 0:09:42.120 see none of those guys back next year if they 0:09:42.200 --> 0:09:45.000 don't resign Hayden Hurst. This is considered to be a 0:09:45.080 --> 0:09:47.960 very strong tight end draft, so that's obviously an option. 0:09:48.000 --> 0:09:50.880 But what about other free agent tight ends that they 0:09:50.960 --> 0:09:53.840 might be able to get a little bit cheaper. Yeah, 0:09:53.880 --> 0:09:55.120 and so I think that is part of it. Ay, 0:09:55.160 --> 0:09:57.559 the draft class is very strong, and it'd be there 0:09:57.559 --> 0:09:59.280 is some depth there. I got like Foster Moreau with 0:09:59.360 --> 0:10:01.360 the Las Vegas Raiders this past year. I think is 0:10:01.400 --> 0:10:05.079 a younger and potentially cheaper version of a Hayden Hurst. 0:10:05.320 --> 0:10:07.040 So he's a name if you want to go real cheap. 0:10:07.080 --> 0:10:09.679 I think a guy like irb Smith is interesting, you know, 0:10:09.720 --> 0:10:11.679 been heard a bunch with the Minnesota Vikings, but is 0:10:11.720 --> 0:10:14.160 a good player when he's healthy, and you kind of, 0:10:14.280 --> 0:10:16.160 you know, just like Hayden Hurst, maybe you bring him 0:10:16.200 --> 0:10:17.839 in on that one year, three and a half of 0:10:17.920 --> 0:10:20.480 whatever it was millions flyer and then see where you 0:10:20.480 --> 0:10:23.040 can go from there. I think they're probably in that 0:10:23.120 --> 0:10:25.880 kind of bargain bid market, but which can work out 0:10:25.880 --> 0:10:28.120 a lot at tight end. We are talking to Brad 0:10:28.160 --> 0:10:30.920 Spielberger from Pro Football Focus. You can follow him on 0:10:30.960 --> 0:10:36.280 Twitter at PFF Underscore. Brad. I think all of us 0:10:36.280 --> 0:10:38.800 agree with you that Jesse Bates is almost certainly not 0:10:38.880 --> 0:10:41.360 going to be back. What's he going to get? Is 0:10:41.360 --> 0:10:43.600 he going to be one of the NFL's highest paid safeties. 0:10:44.320 --> 0:10:46.960 I think I would look at the Marcus Williams deal 0:10:46.960 --> 0:10:49.560 with the Baltimore Ravens, so he got five years seventy 0:10:49.600 --> 0:10:52.080 million for fourteen million per year. I think Bates will 0:10:52.120 --> 0:10:53.360 get a little bit more than that. So you know, 0:10:53.400 --> 0:10:55.760 I had five years, seventy five million from fifteen million 0:10:55.800 --> 0:10:57.719 dollars a year. I don't think he's going to get 0:10:57.760 --> 0:11:00.640 anywhere near that. You know, Derwin Jane and make if 0:11:00.640 --> 0:11:03.400 Fitzpatrick market. The baits is a very good player, but 0:11:03.440 --> 0:11:06.160 I think those guys offer more versatility. They're able to 0:11:06.160 --> 0:11:08.840 actually cover, I think in more like true man covers 0:11:08.880 --> 0:11:11.079 snaps in the slot. They can take on tight ends, 0:11:11.080 --> 0:11:13.480 and it came to the number three receiver, they can 0:11:13.679 --> 0:11:16.040 you know, I think are more effected down in the box, 0:11:16.120 --> 0:11:19.120 making plays, rushing the pass or things like that. Um 0:11:19.200 --> 0:11:20.800 of course, you know, maybe we don't know if Batsis 0:11:20.840 --> 0:11:23.360 wasn't used in those ways. But he's a good player. 0:11:23.400 --> 0:11:26.000 He's a good run deepender. He's delivered some some crushing 0:11:26.040 --> 0:11:28.320 hits in his time. But I think he is viewed 0:11:28.320 --> 0:11:30.760 as more of a kind of true deep third free safety, 0:11:31.080 --> 0:11:33.240 and those guys are just not getting paid right now 0:11:33.520 --> 0:11:36.480 as much as your jackknife kind of versatile guys like 0:11:36.600 --> 0:11:39.559 a Derwin and like a make a Fitzpatrick. We might 0:11:39.640 --> 0:11:42.360 disagree on whether they keep von Bell. I think I 0:11:42.400 --> 0:11:44.920 think it's more likely than you do. But let's say 0:11:44.960 --> 0:11:47.600 that they don't if they lose Bits and Bell. They 0:11:47.640 --> 0:11:49.920 do have Dax Hill waiting in the wings. They drafted 0:11:50.000 --> 0:11:52.120 him in the first round last year for that reason. 0:11:52.679 --> 0:11:56.120 But how is that mid range free agent market at 0:11:56.160 --> 0:11:58.920 safety if they need to add a starter out of 0:11:58.920 --> 0:12:00.760 those guys. I think Bell maybe he is most likely, 0:12:00.800 --> 0:12:01.960 but he would have to take it. I think a 0:12:02.000 --> 0:12:03.760 deal kind of in the similar range of the one 0:12:03.800 --> 0:12:06.200 he signed, and that is the mid tier at safety, 0:12:06.240 --> 0:12:09.000 there's there's always so many options. It's such a deep 0:12:09.040 --> 0:12:12.120 position right now, where outside of that top tier you 0:12:12.120 --> 0:12:14.120 can find a lot of mid range players, you know, 0:12:14.240 --> 0:12:17.640 good solid safeties life around Bell the first time he signed. Frankly, 0:12:18.320 --> 0:12:20.400 there's always that level of guys. So I think it's 0:12:20.440 --> 0:12:23.440 looking at you know, six to eight million per year 0:12:23.520 --> 0:12:25.959 for a lot of those guys. And I think if 0:12:25.960 --> 0:12:27.839 Bell is willing to sign for a deal similar to 0:12:27.880 --> 0:12:29.880 the one he's on right now, that I think since 0:12:29.920 --> 0:12:32.440 he should be open to doing that have him play 0:12:32.440 --> 0:12:34.800 opposite deck. So I think they're different players that bring 0:12:34.840 --> 0:12:38.280 different skill sets to the table, and Belle is very solid, 0:12:38.360 --> 0:12:40.920 just like good all around player that I think would 0:12:40.920 --> 0:12:43.120 be a benefit to that defense going forward. We are 0:12:43.120 --> 0:12:46.760 talking to Brad Spielberger from Pro Football Focus. Right tackle 0:12:46.880 --> 0:12:49.800 L Collins ended the season with a torn ACL He 0:12:49.920 --> 0:12:53.319 dealt with back problems before that, never practiced on Wednesday. 0:12:53.840 --> 0:12:57.160 How costly would it be to move on and how 0:12:57.240 --> 0:12:59.679 is the market for a starting right tackle if they 0:12:59.679 --> 0:13:02.760 had to go on that direction. Yeah, he's an interesting one. 0:13:02.760 --> 0:13:05.240 They obviously structure that deal with a lot of team 0:13:05.280 --> 0:13:08.080 protection with all these per game roster bonuses, which of 0:13:08.120 --> 0:13:10.440 course you don't earn if you're not playing. Um, they 0:13:10.440 --> 0:13:12.720 would save six million dollars if they called him, they'd 0:13:12.720 --> 0:13:15.720 have three point three three I'm in dead cap, which 0:13:15.800 --> 0:13:18.319 is not that at all. You know, it's certainly you 0:13:18.360 --> 0:13:20.920 can stomach that for trying to replace a right tackle. 0:13:21.400 --> 0:13:23.760 There are a handful of really good players coming up. 0:13:23.920 --> 0:13:25.280 You know, if you want to get into the Mike 0:13:25.360 --> 0:13:28.719 McGlinchey and Caleb McGarry and Juan Taylor conversation, I think 0:13:28.720 --> 0:13:31.320 you're looking at fourteen to sixteen million dollars a year, 0:13:32.040 --> 0:13:33.839 give or take. If you're looking at kind of the 0:13:33.880 --> 0:13:36.240 next tier of players. There's a handful of guys that 0:13:36.320 --> 0:13:39.000 are kind of swing guys. You know, Jermaine a Luminoire 0:13:39.040 --> 0:13:41.840 with the Las Vegas Raiders. You can look at Isaiah 0:13:41.880 --> 0:13:44.160 Win with the New England Patriots, who has now kind 0:13:44.160 --> 0:13:46.280 of been shuffled around, played on both sides of the line. 0:13:46.760 --> 0:13:49.280 Those guys, I think you maybe get a shorter term deal, 0:13:49.320 --> 0:13:51.760 one or two year deal for maybe four or five 0:13:51.760 --> 0:13:54.640 million a year. But of course, you know a lot 0:13:54.640 --> 0:13:56.160 of the time you are getting what you pay for. 0:13:56.679 --> 0:13:58.800 But yeah, the Collins injuries really are stacking up, and 0:13:59.120 --> 0:14:02.280 I would not be surprised if they try to address tackle. 0:14:02.600 --> 0:14:04.880 And I think those swing options I mentioned are intriguing. 0:14:05.200 --> 0:14:08.240 With Jonah going into his fifth year option, obviously he's 0:14:08.240 --> 0:14:10.480 had injury issues his whole career. You bring in a 0:14:10.480 --> 0:14:13.200 guy that does have experienced, you know, George Fant another 0:14:13.200 --> 0:14:15.520 one with the New York Jets who's played both sides 0:14:15.520 --> 0:14:18.120 of the line. Maybe that's intriguing because you think, hey, 0:14:18.160 --> 0:14:19.640 this guy might have to start at left tackle for 0:14:19.640 --> 0:14:21.280 a couple of games for US next year as well. 0:14:22.000 --> 0:14:24.680 So everybody listening to this knows there's been a ton 0:14:24.680 --> 0:14:28.040 of speculation about Joe Mixon. Is it time to move 0:14:28.080 --> 0:14:31.000 on from Joe to clear up cap space? Make the 0:14:31.040 --> 0:14:33.800 case for why that would make sense, and are there 0:14:33.800 --> 0:14:37.840 other ways to keep him but still save money against 0:14:37.840 --> 0:14:41.200 the cap. Well that the timing for that question is perfect, 0:14:41.240 --> 0:14:44.280 because if anyone hasn't seen Aaron Jones with the Green 0:14:44.320 --> 0:14:46.840 Bay Packers agreed to a pay cut this morning, and 0:14:46.880 --> 0:14:49.840 I think you're going to see Cincinnati with Joe Mixon, 0:14:49.840 --> 0:14:53.240 probably Minnesota with Dalvin Cook, probably the Cowboys with Ezekiel Elliott. 0:14:53.400 --> 0:14:55.240 Point to that and say, hey, Aaron Jones a very 0:14:55.240 --> 0:14:57.480 good player on a deal that's very similar to you guys, 0:14:57.480 --> 0:14:59.200 and he just agreed to a pay cut. So I 0:14:59.240 --> 0:15:00.840 think that is what you do with mix And look, 0:15:01.000 --> 0:15:03.200 I think he's a very good player. I know he 0:15:03.200 --> 0:15:05.080 had ups and downs here, some games where he really 0:15:05.120 --> 0:15:08.200 splashed somewhere he'd kind of disappeared into a degree obviously, 0:15:08.320 --> 0:15:10.280 you know, not in legal trouble now, it sounds like, 0:15:10.320 --> 0:15:12.880 but who knows what's going on there? And of course, 0:15:12.920 --> 0:15:15.160 just you know, people will love to talk about saving 0:15:15.200 --> 0:15:18.080 money and not spending a lot of this position. But 0:15:19.040 --> 0:15:21.240 in my opinion, I'd rather try to negotiate a pack 0:15:21.320 --> 0:15:24.080 up with him, chop off three four million dollars from 0:15:24.080 --> 0:15:26.960 his nine point four million dollars salary. I think cutting 0:15:27.040 --> 0:15:28.680 him and trying to go out in the market and 0:15:28.680 --> 0:15:32.440 get a player or drafting early is probably not the 0:15:32.560 --> 0:15:35.280 better approach. So that's what I would do there. It's 0:15:35.280 --> 0:15:37.960 trying to chop a couple million off that deal. Big 0:15:38.000 --> 0:15:41.920 picture are the Bengals in good shape to be able 0:15:41.920 --> 0:15:44.480 to retain at least the bulk of one of the 0:15:44.520 --> 0:15:48.280 league's best rosters. They're in phenomenal shape. I mean, they 0:15:48.320 --> 0:15:50.400 are looking at how good their rosters and their sixth 0:15:50.480 --> 0:15:52.920 right now in projected cap space. A lot of their 0:15:53.000 --> 0:15:55.480 veterans are, you know, set right now. Obviously we're talking 0:15:55.480 --> 0:15:56.800 about a ton of free agents and a ton of 0:15:56.840 --> 0:15:59.120 good young players coming up, but it's not likely they 0:15:59.160 --> 0:16:01.360 have a bunch of you know, Markie, you know, you know, 0:16:01.400 --> 0:16:03.280 Trey Hendrickson's not a free agent, or you know, you 0:16:03.280 --> 0:16:05.160 know what I'm saying, Like a lot of their elite, 0:16:05.160 --> 0:16:08.400 elite players that they view as the foundational core pieces 0:16:08.440 --> 0:16:11.560 for the next couple of years are under contracts. So 0:16:11.920 --> 0:16:14.080 they're in their phenomenal shape. I don't think it's a 0:16:14.160 --> 0:16:16.360 question of whether they can do it um. I think 0:16:16.360 --> 0:16:18.040 it's a question of whether they want to go there 0:16:18.080 --> 0:16:20.760 and really kind of load up on this roster um. 0:16:20.880 --> 0:16:24.120 You know, they obviously that they they've been successful. But 0:16:24.200 --> 0:16:26.120 the question I think in their mind is if we 0:16:26.200 --> 0:16:28.440 go out and spend you know, just on Teagans and 0:16:28.480 --> 0:16:31.440 Jibburrow alone, we go spend seventy five million dollars a 0:16:31.520 --> 0:16:34.120 year on those two guys. Can we keep contending? And 0:16:34.160 --> 0:16:35.840 I'm wondering what you know if they think the answer 0:16:35.840 --> 0:16:38.680 to that question is yes. As I've said, you are 0:16:39.120 --> 0:16:42.160 listed as the salary cap expert at Pro Football Focus. 0:16:42.200 --> 0:16:44.480 But obviously you put a ton of time into free 0:16:44.520 --> 0:16:48.320 agency and studying the market. How good have the Bengals 0:16:48.960 --> 0:16:53.480 fared in free agency in recent years in your opinion? Phenomenally? Yeah, 0:16:53.480 --> 0:16:57.120 they've been on a heater a million roster construction across 0:16:57.160 --> 0:17:00.360 the board. I mean, yeah, I mentioned Trey Hendrickson's actually 0:17:00.440 --> 0:17:02.440 kind of a funny anecdote. He was projected a little 0:17:02.440 --> 0:17:05.240 bit lower on my board that offseason. He got the 0:17:05.240 --> 0:17:08.280 better deal, and then immediately I've played that deal, um, 0:17:08.560 --> 0:17:10.520 and I you know, I got poked fun a little 0:17:10.520 --> 0:17:11.879 bit for that saying you were low on him and 0:17:11.920 --> 0:17:13.760 he even better than the deal he already already got. 0:17:13.800 --> 0:17:16.080 So But no, I mean going back to like von 0:17:16.160 --> 0:17:18.639 Villin coming through now, I mean just it's all about 0:17:18.680 --> 0:17:21.880 these smart, smaller signings, these mid tier deals. I love 0:17:21.920 --> 0:17:24.199 the Mike Hilton deal, one of the best lack corners 0:17:24.200 --> 0:17:27.439 in the NFL, you know, just just being calculated with it. 0:17:27.440 --> 0:17:30.160 You'd never You rarely win when you make that big 0:17:30.200 --> 0:17:32.480 splash and bring in the top free agent that everyone 0:17:32.520 --> 0:17:35.320 wants to know, the name recognition guy. It's more of 0:17:35.359 --> 0:17:37.600 those mid tier deals and you add, you know, the 0:17:37.640 --> 0:17:40.679 interior offensive line moves. I love bringing Carris and Kappa. 0:17:40.720 --> 0:17:44.000 I mentioned Hendrickson for him, a great deal. Mike Hilton, like, 0:17:44.280 --> 0:17:46.160 none of these guys are top of market, but they're 0:17:46.240 --> 0:17:49.479 really really valuable to since Nati Bengals right now and 0:17:49.520 --> 0:17:52.399 it's they've been great the last couple of years. All right, 0:17:52.520 --> 0:17:55.199 final thing we started with Joe Burrow. I'm going to 0:17:55.320 --> 0:17:58.440 end with Joe Burrow. If they get this done, what's 0:17:58.480 --> 0:18:01.160 it look like? How many years, how much per year, 0:18:01.200 --> 0:18:03.520 how much of a guarantee? What do you think? So 0:18:03.520 --> 0:18:05.679 I'll say this, I think his side is probably pushing 0:18:05.720 --> 0:18:08.320 for four because that was the standard in the past 0:18:08.359 --> 0:18:11.879 before Patrick Mahomes kind of complicated that for everybody, and 0:18:11.920 --> 0:18:13.560 I'm sure the team is trying to say, Okay, let's 0:18:13.600 --> 0:18:15.760 go to six. So I'll guess they meet in the 0:18:15.800 --> 0:18:19.040 middle at five. And I'm thinking it's you know, it 0:18:19.080 --> 0:18:21.320 does depend if he goes first or justin Herbert, all 0:18:21.320 --> 0:18:23.879 those things, but I'll stop hedging it and give an 0:18:23.880 --> 0:18:27.120 answer here. So I'll say five years at fifty two 0:18:27.119 --> 0:18:30.560 and a half million per year, So do that quick 0:18:30.600 --> 0:18:33.760 mental math. But whatever that comes out to in a total, 0:18:34.080 --> 0:18:35.920 and then I mean, the guarantee of the thing is, 0:18:37.040 --> 0:18:39.639 I just don't think Cincinnati's going to totally give in 0:18:39.680 --> 0:18:42.680 on their structure and their ability to guarantee beyond year one. 0:18:42.840 --> 0:18:45.280 So my guess is we'll see, just like you know, 0:18:45.320 --> 0:18:47.720 a Kyler Murray lest year in Arizona and a couple 0:18:47.760 --> 0:18:50.720 of the recent deals, Josh Allen around one hundred million 0:18:50.760 --> 0:18:54.960 dollars fully guaranteed it's signing, but a lot of the 0:18:55.000 --> 0:18:57.119 guarantees going through the course of the deal are going 0:18:57.200 --> 0:18:59.680 to you know, vest later. Basically they're gonna kick in 0:18:59.680 --> 0:19:03.840