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Speaker 1: Cable news is ripping us apart, dividing the nation, making

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Speaker 1: it impossible to function as a society and to know

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Speaker 1: what is true and what is false. The good news

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Speaker 1: is that they're failing and they know it. That is

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Speaker 1: why we're building something new. Be part of creating a new, better, healthier,

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Speaker 1: and more trustworthy mainstream by becoming a Breaking Points Premium

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Speaker 1: member today at breakingpoints dot com. Your hard earned money

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Speaker 1: is going to help us build for the midterms and

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Speaker 1: the upcoming presidential election so we can provide unparalleled coverage

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Speaker 1: of what is sure to be one of the most

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Speaker 1: pivotal moments in American history. So what are you waiting for?

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Speaker 1: Go to Breakingpoints dot com to help us out. Good morning,

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Speaker 1: and welcome to Counterpoints Friday. I'm Ryan Grahama here with

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Speaker 1: Emily Jushinsky. Emily, how you doing. I'm good. I forgot

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Speaker 1: my glasses once again. Lest you think that I would

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Speaker 1: only do it one time, I have done it again,

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Speaker 1: So please excuse any squinting if you're watching this on YouTube.

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Speaker 1: I'm serious. I've got my glasses here so I'll be

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Speaker 1: able to read everything that you need. I learned that

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Speaker 1: Ryan actually has great eyesight, which he wears glasses a lot,

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Speaker 1: but I guess it's for like when the teleprompters are

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Speaker 1: really small, yeah right, otherwise I otherwise I stay away

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Speaker 1: from them. That's why I don't even have contexts reading

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Speaker 1: a teleprompter, Like, forget it. I can't do it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's not easy, all right. So there was some really

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Speaker 1: good news for the economy and also some good news

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Speaker 1: this week for Democrats. There's the narrative since mid October

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Speaker 1: fairly because you started seeing like a polling collapse, was

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Speaker 1: that the red tsunami was back, the red wave was back.

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Speaker 1: This week, you haven't seen a counter narrative develop in

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Speaker 1: the press yet. If the press wanted to concoct one,

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Speaker 1: the numbers were all there. So Tom tom Bonnier, so

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Speaker 1: democratic strategist, compiled these. Let's put that up a one.

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Speaker 1: He pulled up a bunch of different generic generic poll

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Speaker 1: congressional generic polling, generic ballot. That's what it is. Which

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Speaker 1: is which is one of the most reliable sources so

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Speaker 1: far that we've had. This This one has not fallen apart.

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Speaker 1: So I can put my glasses on here and read

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Speaker 1: this where you guys can read it for yourself. And

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Speaker 1: this since he tweeted this, another one has come out

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Speaker 1: that has UH that came out from Echelon Insights, which

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Speaker 1: has UH, which has Democrats up like plus two plus three.

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Speaker 1: Recently you've got Democrats off, you know, just across the board.

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Speaker 1: You can see it plus four plus four plus four

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Speaker 1: plus five plus three plus five depending on likely voter,

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Speaker 1: registered voter. It moves it in some polls, doesn't move

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Speaker 1: it in other polls. This is a this is this

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Speaker 1: is movement like you're when when when it's starting to

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Speaker 1: get aggregated together like this, some you're catching something. Do

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Speaker 1: you think that this is just noise or do you

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Speaker 1: think that something about gas prices collapsing the stock market? Again,

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Speaker 1: like most people don't have money in the stock market,

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Speaker 1: but it it signals to people kind of like people

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Speaker 1: take it as a proxy for the future, for the

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Speaker 1: for employment, for confidence, for future that you know, that's

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Speaker 1: it's been rallying the last week or so, coinciding with

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Speaker 1: these numbers coming out. What's or is this just all nonsense?

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Speaker 1: I think it's actually all nonsense. And I do appreciate

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Speaker 1: what Tom is doing there because I think it's always

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Speaker 1: helpful to challenge priors, especially with polling. When polling starts

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Speaker 1: to congeal in one direction, I actually get nervous because,

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Speaker 1: and we're going to talk about this in this very segment,

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Speaker 1: I'm very nervous about the competence of the polling industry,

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Speaker 1: as the polling industry itself is very nervous about its

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Speaker 1: own competence per New York Times support this week. So

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Speaker 1: I think, actually, if you dig into some of those polls,

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Speaker 1: one of them was an economist you Go, or an

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Speaker 1: economist IPSOS and a politico you Go poll those polls

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Speaker 1: have had Democrats that head by healthy margins with like

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Speaker 1: one exception for months, and that to me, where you're

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Speaker 1: showing no movement is quite interesting and not necessarily a

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Speaker 1: signal that there's there's a tick up towards four Democrats.

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Speaker 1: And also, if you look at the generic ballot aggregates,

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Speaker 1: so real clear politics, generic ballot aggregate shows a little

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Speaker 1: bit of movement over the last several days. Like over

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Speaker 1: the last few days, it does show Democrats doing better

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Speaker 1: on the congressional ballot. It's still though it has them

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Speaker 1: down by a decent margin or respectable margin. If you're

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Speaker 1: republican's looking at and thinking what it indicates, and five

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Speaker 1: point thirty eight also shows it sort of tightening over

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Speaker 1: the summer until about A three just about a few

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Speaker 1: weeks ago, and it's still a pretty wide gap. So

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Speaker 1: I think when you're looking at the aggregates, it's interesting.

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Speaker 1: But to the question that I think Tom was kind

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Speaker 1: of raising here, it's like, what does go into the

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Speaker 1: creation of a narrative? What is the media looking at? Right?

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Speaker 1: So if X creates narrative, why, then why doesn't Z

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Speaker 1: also create narrative? Why? And that I think is worth

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Speaker 1: a question worth asking, right, And the polling industry, like

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Speaker 1: you said, is getting very nervous, and you can tell

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Speaker 1: that by and put the second one up. Story after

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Speaker 1: story after story is coming out. That is basically like

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Speaker 1: blaring to readers and voters do not trust us. Yeah

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Speaker 1: we have we have no idea what's going on here.

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Speaker 1: But if you are going to put faith in any polls,

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Speaker 1: and faith is the wrong word, but if you're going

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Speaker 1: to put any stock in any polls, the national polls

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Speaker 1: aren't that bad and haven't been that bad. So if

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Speaker 1: you take twenty twenty and twenty sixteen in general, the

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Speaker 1: national polls on both you know, Hillary Trump and also

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Speaker 1: Biden Trump were pretty close. Hillary Trump was pretty bad. Well,

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Speaker 1: she won by three million votes and the polls had

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Speaker 1: her up by you know, a couple of points. But

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Speaker 1: you know they were saying, like I guess you read

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Speaker 1: the electoral map was where they were getting led. They

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Speaker 1: got all the state they got this, they got key

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Speaker 1: states wrong. So it's when you drill down. But if

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Speaker 1: you looked at the popular vote, they like nailed the

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Speaker 1: popular vote both twenty sixteen and twenty twenty, and they

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Speaker 1: have nailed the generic congressional ballot, yes, pretty consistently. So

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Speaker 1: if now they the aggregate does because obviously they're all

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Speaker 1: over the map here. Democrats need to be like what

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Speaker 1: plus plus two or so you need to be to

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Speaker 1: win good? Yeah, Like they don't if it's even because

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Speaker 1: of the structural advantage that Republicans have, Republicans will control

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Speaker 1: the House. And that's why five point thirty eight to keep.

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Speaker 1: That's one of the reasons five thirty eight still has Republicans.

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Speaker 1: It's something like an eighty one eighty two percent chance

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Speaker 1: of holding the House, but a very close margin. And

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Speaker 1: so movements in that generic poll I think are a

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Speaker 1: lot more interesting than new polls coming out of Wisconsin

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Speaker 1: or Pennsylvania or Nevada or even Florida or Ohio like

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Speaker 1: those might be wildly off. We might find out they

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Speaker 1: were off by ten in like Ohio or something like that. Well,

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Speaker 1: I remember a wash I think it was a Washington

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Speaker 1: Post poll in twenty twenty that said, what was it,

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Speaker 1: Joe Biden was going to win by like seventeen points

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Speaker 1: in Wisconsin, right in Wisconsin. And so the state level polls,

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Speaker 1: it can be shocking. And we saw a huge swing

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Speaker 1: just in Wisconsin with a Marquette poll for Johnson and

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Speaker 1: the Mandela Barnes race over the course of a couple

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Speaker 1: that again it did it seemed to me like that

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Speaker 1: was organically just wherepublic opinion had moved, but that there

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Speaker 1: was some error in the polling that was showing up

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Speaker 1: in its in itself. But that is the state level races, though,

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Speaker 1: like the fact that we can't gauge them well is

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Speaker 1: kind of insane, and from the pollster's perspective, it's insane

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Speaker 1: that we would expect them to maintain the same level

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Speaker 1: of accuracy when if you look at some of the

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Speaker 1: articles that we just put up on the board from

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Speaker 1: the New York Times in five point thirty eight. They're

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Speaker 1: talking about some really huge, like tectonic shifts in what

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Speaker 1: they have to tackle. So they have all of this

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Speaker 1: technology upheaval. They have the question of Trump people being

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Speaker 1: like our politics getting so bitter and divisive that people

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Speaker 1: are afraid of saying who they're voting for, or they

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Speaker 1: have seen posters get it so wrong they flat out

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Speaker 1: don't want to be involved in their operation. But here's

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Speaker 1: a quote from this massive sort of New York Times

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Speaker 1: dive into polling just this week, It said, quote, spend

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Speaker 1: several hours talk to them polsters, and there's only one

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Speaker 1: conclusion you can reach. The same cross currents of mistrust,

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Speaker 1: misinformation and polarization that divide our nation are also weakening

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Speaker 1: our ability to see it for what it is. The

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Speaker 1: stronger those forces grow, the worse are polling gets. There's

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Speaker 1: a five thirty eight article ran that you sent. Here's

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Speaker 1: a quote from that. One big concern is that we

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Speaker 1: have fewer surveys of individual contests in twenty twenty two

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Speaker 1: than in previous mid terms, and a larger share of

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Speaker 1: that smaller pie has been conducted by partisan polsters and

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Speaker 1: or sponsored by partisan organizations and they did a big

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Speaker 1: analysis to make that determination. So that leaves us, I think,

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Speaker 1: in like, that's to your point about the congressional ballot

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Speaker 1: being sort of what we have to go off right,

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Speaker 1: that's what we have to go off with until right right,

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Speaker 1: right right. And that's not a perfect metric. But when

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Speaker 1: you're looking at people saying, you know, they know what's

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Speaker 1: happening in Pennsylvania and Ohio and Arizona, well, a lot

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Speaker 1: of what they think is happening is based on polls

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Speaker 1: that even polsters are worried or flawed r because they're

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Speaker 1: going to get turn out wrong a lot the more

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Speaker 1: local you get. And so that's why when you do

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Speaker 1: am a national poll, a lot of the mistakes you

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Speaker 1: make wash themselves out on each side. And so five

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Speaker 1: point thirty eight had this fascinating look at and we

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Speaker 1: included in that earlier when this fascinting look at people

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Speaker 1: who aren't doing poles, and you start to read that

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Speaker 1: story and you're like, well, this is an impossible story

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Speaker 1: to do. How on earth can you do a story

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Speaker 1: based on people who don't answer poles? How do you

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Speaker 1: know who they are because they don't answer you? Well,

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Speaker 1: the answer is so they started out with this gigantic

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Speaker 1: sample of people and then conducted a longitudinal study, which

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Speaker 1: means they came back and they hit them every month

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Speaker 1: or so to check in where they were, and so

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Speaker 1: it's easy to get somebody in this first time they

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Speaker 1: get So they got like thousands of people in for

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Speaker 1: the first time. Then a bunch of people didn't show

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Speaker 1: up for the second round, some more people didn't show

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Speaker 1: up for the third round, but then it plateaued like

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Speaker 1: once you did the first two, like you were in.

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Speaker 1: So you think, so that gives you a characteristic of

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Speaker 1: people who do polls and the characteristics of people who

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Speaker 1: dropped off out of polls. One of the conventional things

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Speaker 1: that people think they understand is that Trump supporters aren't gonna,

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Speaker 1: you know, are going to be less likely to take

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Speaker 1: this poll. And they sort of did find that Republicans

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Speaker 1: in general. Republican Republicans in general were more likely to

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Speaker 1: drop out. Weirdly, Fox News viewers were more likely to

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Speaker 1: participate in the poll. It was Trump supporters who are

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Speaker 1: primarily supportive of Trump and not the party and who

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Speaker 1: get their news from social media, those were the ones

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Speaker 1: that were, you know, the most likely to drop out

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Speaker 1: in a disproportionate way to other ones, but the real

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Speaker 1: people who dropped out And this is a sad statement

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Speaker 1: about our democracy, but one that everybody I think watching

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Speaker 1: this will understand people who just aren't going to vote. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So it's not like the people, the main people who

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Speaker 1: aren't taking political polls turn out to be were like, well,

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Speaker 1: I'm not voting, Get away from me. Yeah, like that,

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Speaker 1: don't bother me with this. I don't want to talk

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Speaker 1: about those Yeah, And they're like, why would I waste

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Speaker 1: your time or my time? Yeah, Like I know I'm

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Speaker 1: not going to vote, right, But then again, like that's

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Speaker 1: so that metric aside whether or not somebody is going

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Speaker 1: to vote, is also becoming harder for polsters to gauge

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Speaker 1: unless you have a huge difference between polls that just

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Speaker 1: go with registered voters and pulls that go with likely voters.

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Speaker 1: And it's just like this huge nerdy, somewhat nerdy distinction

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Speaker 1: that has a just gargantuan effect on the quality of

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Speaker 1: those polls. And I mean, it's just one thing that

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Speaker 1: people forget or I guess maybe sort of want to

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Speaker 1: not talk about in Washington, is that when five point

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Speaker 1: thirty eight is talking about those those partisan polls, those parts.

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Speaker 1: The more we're relying on partisan polls, the more we're

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Speaker 1: allowing them to do what they're intended to do, which

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Speaker 1: is influence these elections. Partisan polling is not just for

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Speaker 1: personal information. There is a sort of influence ambition involved

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Speaker 1: in all of that too, And so the more we're

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Speaker 1: relying on things like that, the less well off all

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Speaker 1: of us are there. But I think what's really really

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Speaker 1: noteworthy is that from all of those articles that polsters

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Speaker 1: are very nervous about polls. And this is after half

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Speaker 1: a decade of looking at dramatically big misses in some

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Speaker 1: of those states, as you mentioned Ran and Yeah, And

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Speaker 1: what the polsters have been trying to figure out is,

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Speaker 1: are the people you know who we can't get to

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Speaker 1: these which let's say it's the Trump supporting social media

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Speaker 1: users as they describe them. Are those people similar enough

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Speaker 1: to other Republicans Fox News watching main sources Fox News

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Speaker 1: Republicans that if we increase the weight that we give

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Speaker 1: in a poll to the Republicans that we did talk to,

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Speaker 1: are we going to be able to make up for

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Speaker 1: the fact that we didn't talk to all these other Republicans.

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Speaker 1: That's the big question because if they're roughly the same

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Speaker 1: category of people, then your numbers are going to be accurate,

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Speaker 1: whether whether those people talk to you or not, because

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Speaker 1: you know generally what they think, but they're not. I

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Speaker 1: don't think like I think there are different type you know,

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Speaker 1: people are getting people who get their news from different

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Speaker 1: sources are going to end up voting differently. And so

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Speaker 1: I think one of the key questions that hasn't gotten

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Speaker 1: is it was getting a lot of attention like a

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Speaker 1: year ago, but it's kind of dropped off. Is the

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Speaker 1: question of whether those voters, these Trump supporters who like

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Speaker 1: Trump more than they like the Republican Party and who

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Speaker 1: are mostly just online tend to be younger, itinerant voters.

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Speaker 1: Are they going to show up for the midterms and

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Speaker 1: for Republicans right? And is it? And that's a huge question,

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Speaker 1: by the way, because we know that there's a good

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Speaker 1: handful of people who support Trump more than the Republican

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Speaker 1: Party who had previously voted for Barack Obama and these

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Speaker 1: people are in swing states. What do you think you

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Speaker 1: know these people better than may for do you think

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Speaker 1: they're showing up? Well? I think I would have really

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Speaker 1: been skeptical of that if weren't for COVID, which I

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Speaker 1: think changed the conversation and made a lot of people

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Speaker 1: on the right feel like we're in a sort of

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Speaker 1: political emergency and that demands basically voting for Republicans from

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Speaker 1: that perspective, because of things like CRT, because of things

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Speaker 1: like transiitiology and schools like people have seen what they

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Speaker 1: see or they have been exposed to what they see

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Speaker 1: as a sort of apocalyptic level threat. There is Republicans

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Speaker 1: have moved them enough away from just Trump. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: think so. And that's the question with Fetterman. I have

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Speaker 1: going back months. You can find us on the record

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Speaker 1: pretty much talking about that Fetterman is a decent foil

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Speaker 1: to oz like he's I would not take back that.

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Speaker 1: I think John Fetterman is a good candidate. I think

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Speaker 1: a healthy John Fetterman exactly, it's up by eight points.

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Speaker 1: A healthy John Fetterman, I think is wildly underestimated by Republicans.

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Speaker 1: That's not what ended up happening, and so the race

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Speaker 1: turned out differently. But I do think a healthy John

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Speaker 1: Fetterman would have been a super interesting test. Are you

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Speaker 1: seeing a little bit of a test of that with

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Speaker 1: Tim Ryan, but I think it's not panning out to

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Speaker 1: all see would have hoped You're right, he's not tall enough.

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Speaker 1: Does of wear shorts? That's right, Well, Ryan, part of

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Speaker 1: the way we started this conversation is that you said

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Speaker 1: there is a little bit of good news. But in

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Speaker 1: all of that news, there's economic news that came out

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Speaker 1: on that front on Thursday. But buried in all of

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Speaker 1: that news, literally buried in a BA pdf that you

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Speaker 1: sent our way, is some news about the housing market. Right,

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Speaker 1: So this is coming from the GDP report that you

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Speaker 1: saw yesterday, the headline being that after two quarters of

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Speaker 1: negative growth of the economy shrinking, it's back to growing

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Speaker 1: at a two point six percent. Right. We'll see if

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Speaker 1: that gets adjusted in the future. But the biggest or

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Speaker 1: one of the biggest drags on the economy wasn't housing.

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Speaker 1: And now this is to be expected from you know,

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Speaker 1: not just expected, but kind of done on purpose, from

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Speaker 1: what the Federal Reserve has been doing by tightening monetary policy.

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Speaker 1: Matt Stoller would be very happy, I think, in some

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Speaker 1: ways sort of to see this, but not what Matt

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Speaker 1: wants to see is rents go down, rather than a

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Speaker 1: complete housing crash, and I don't know if you can

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Speaker 1: get both. But so let's let's put up this from this, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: this is gre of economic Now within residential fixed investment,

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Speaker 1: the leading contributors to the decrease where new single family

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Speaker 1: construction and broker's commissions, and so broker's commissions is obvious.

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Speaker 1: That means people aren't buying and selling houses, which is

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Speaker 1: going to push the prices of houses down. You know,

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Speaker 1: you know, less demand, Yeah, you know that pushes prices down.

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Speaker 1: That's that's and you're already seeing rents start to come down.

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Speaker 1: The other part is wild. So we're in other words,

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Speaker 1: with mortgage rates at over seven percent at this point,

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Speaker 1: home builders are like, well, we're not We're not building

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Speaker 1: homes right now. There's because you just crushed all the demand.

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Speaker 1: And so if you are trying to get prices down

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Speaker 1: and you believe in supply and demand, basic supply and demand,

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Speaker 1: there's two ways you can do that. Reduce demand so

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Speaker 1: fewer people can buy homes, or reduce or shrink the economy,

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Speaker 1: which then reduces a supply. The other way to get

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Speaker 1: prices down would be to increase the supply so that

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Speaker 1: now instead of ten houses in an area, there are

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Speaker 1: fifty houses in an area, so all of a sudden,

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Speaker 1: now those become more affordable. That with a growing population

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Speaker 1: would seem to be like the way that a sensible

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Speaker 1: society would want to bring prices down because we're not

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Speaker 1: going to have fewer people. Well, yeah, that's I see

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Speaker 1: housing as one of the weird, like sneaky and quiet

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Speaker 1: things that affects a million other things in our politics,

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Speaker 1: but that we absolutely never talk about, Like we're just

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Speaker 1: not talking about anyway, even like culture warriors who want

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Speaker 1: to talk about the fertility rate and want to talk

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Speaker 1: about them marriage, right, Like, housing is a huge aspect

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Speaker 1: of that. And this is coming on the heels of

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Speaker 1: something you hear very little about, at least in conservative circles.

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Speaker 1: Do you hear a good amount about it on the left,

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Speaker 1: although I would argue it's still too little housing shortage

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Speaker 1: that is like creating this totally out of touch aspect

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Speaker 1: of what people considered the American dream, right, young home ownership,

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Speaker 1: that's your investment, that's your property, that's stability, and that's

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Speaker 1: the sort of place that you build The rest from

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Speaker 1: that was already out of reach for a host of reasons.

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Speaker 1: But one huge one of those reasons is that there's

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Speaker 1: not enough housing, and there's specifically not enough what people

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Speaker 1: consider starter homes, which is like under two thousand square

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Speaker 1: feet and I forget the price metric there, but like

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Speaker 1: this is taking a really really bad situation not just

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Speaker 1: for our politics but also for our culture and making

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Speaker 1: it way worse. And there's an argument that and then

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Speaker 1: playing people on the left would say this that fewer

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Speaker 1: single family homes is good. And if you look at Europe,

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Speaker 1: they're like, what are you what's going on over? What

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Speaker 1: are you guys doing all these singles just endless homes?

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Speaker 1: Like why don't you guys live in row homes or

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Speaker 1: in apartments or in you know, multi family housing, Like

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Speaker 1: like where do you get all this space? Uh? And

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Speaker 1: so it's not a given that you're that everybody you

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Speaker 1: know is going to have a starter home, is going

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Speaker 1: to have their their own home. Like that was that

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Speaker 1: was kind of the American bargain, Like that was the

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Speaker 1: American dream that was sold to people like, Okay, we

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Speaker 1: got a lot of problems here. There's a lot of

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Speaker 1: a lot of upward social mobility and a lot of

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Speaker 1: downward social social mobility, But we do have a contract

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Speaker 1: here that if you basically if you work hard, uh,

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Speaker 1: you can you can own your own home and your

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Speaker 1: and your children have a chance of doing better than

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Speaker 1: you did. Like, that's the that's the basic bargain. Now

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Speaker 1: that we're pulling that bargain out, we're saying, actually, you know,

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Speaker 1: not so much. And and the FED by turning this around,

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Speaker 1: could create a kind of structural funded shift in construction

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Speaker 1: that just says, you know what, the single family homes

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Speaker 1: we've got, that's what we're going to go with from

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Speaker 1: now on. We're doing multi family homes, apartments, condos. Well,

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Speaker 1: it so could lawmakers on the local level, like across

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Speaker 1: the board, and obviously they are deeply involved in Yeah.

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Speaker 1: But so The New York Times actually had a super

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Speaker 1: interesting dive into basically the death of the starter home

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Speaker 1: that they published last month, and here's a paragraph from it.

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Speaker 1: They wrote, from a builder's view, there's nothing particularly prefable

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Speaker 1: preferable about higher end homes. The profit margins aren't generally higher,

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Speaker 1: they demand more customization, the riskier to build in economic downtimes.

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Speaker 1: Entry level housing, on the other hand, is invariably in

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Speaker 1: deep demand. So where did it go? But The demand

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Speaker 1: question I think is interesting too, because there are I

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Speaker 1: actually would totally believe that demand has gone down just

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Speaker 1: because a lot of people have people my age have

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Speaker 1: been conditioned to see this as something that is out

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Speaker 1: of reach, right, Like since the Great Recession, it was

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Speaker 1: the talking borders that this is out of reach, And

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Speaker 1: that's true for a lot of reasons. But I think

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Speaker 1: it's also sort of a self fulfilling prophecy to that extent,

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Speaker 1: because people don't even look. I mean, I know there

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Speaker 1: are jokes about Zillo now, like SNL did a great

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Speaker 1: sketch about like people scrolling Zillo and listen, we've all

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Speaker 1: done that, But the idea that you would actually sort

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Speaker 1: of make a move on it is a totally different question.

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Speaker 1: And I feel like a lot of people just genuinely

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Speaker 1: see that as out of reach. So I think maybe

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Speaker 1: there's a chunk of demand that probably isn't there where

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Speaker 1: it used to be. But at the same time, the

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Speaker 1: demand in general is absolutely there, right, But demand, like

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Speaker 1: from your heart, is different than demand coupled with the

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Speaker 1: ability to pay. Yeah, And so if you're slowing down

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Speaker 1: the economy, what that means is that people have less money,

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Speaker 1: people have unemployment goes up, people are in deeper debt.

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Speaker 1: So demand isn't just like that would be nice, It's

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Speaker 1: like that would be nice, but I can also afforded, right,

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Speaker 1: And did the time say it was mostly about affordability

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Speaker 1: or what was there? What was their takeaway that it

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Speaker 1: just is zoning reforms basically, like zoning law is one

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Speaker 1: of the reasons that a lot of this hasn't happened,

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Speaker 1: and that it's just kind of a market what's the

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Speaker 1: best way to describe it, Maybe a mean land market

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Speaker 1: kind of thing. Yeah, it's just like falling through the

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Speaker 1: cracks of the market, the idea of the starter home.

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Speaker 1: And I thought it's particularly interesting that they're saying, well,

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Speaker 1: it's not like it's worse for developers. It's not like

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Speaker 1: developers are doing this because of you know, the invisible hand,

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Speaker 1: Like there actually is a market incentive for that, including demand,

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Speaker 1: as they say, there's invariably deep demand for affordable starter homes.

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Speaker 1: So it's it's a really serious problem. It's the same

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Speaker 1: thing like just coming to the respective on the right,

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Speaker 1: it's the same thing with student loans, right, Like we

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Speaker 1: cannot be talking about marriage and children and not paying

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Speaker 1: attention to the fact that people are drowning in student

431
00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:54,159
Speaker 1: loan debt. You and I disagree on what the solution

432
00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:56,560
Speaker 1: should be to that, but the fact that, like it's

433
00:22:56,560 --> 00:22:58,840
Speaker 1: the same thing with housing student loans. There are all

434
00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:01,120
Speaker 1: of these kind of financial issues that the right has

435
00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:03,920
Speaker 1: for a really long time sort of shrugged and left

436
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:06,240
Speaker 1: to the market and said the market will sort of

437
00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:09,600
Speaker 1: work this out, that the invisible hand will sort of

438
00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:13,159
Speaker 1: guide us to fitting all of these puzzle pieces together.

439
00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:16,320
Speaker 1: But that has wreaked havoc on the culture to redab

440
00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:19,000
Speaker 1: it on things that Republicans really purport to care about

441
00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:22,160
Speaker 1: right now. And again, like a lot of people probably

442
00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:24,080
Speaker 1: disagree on what the solutions are. I'm just saying they

443
00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:26,080
Speaker 1: don't even talk about these things. Yeah, And I think

444
00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:28,040
Speaker 1: one of the things that I think is going on

445
00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:32,960
Speaker 1: is because they have kinked so much multi family housing

446
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:36,080
Speaker 1: and so many apartments by you know, the nimbi yes

447
00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:41,040
Speaker 1: limmy blockages, that there are a lot of single family

448
00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:45,400
Speaker 1: homes that are now occupied by multiple lots of people. Yeah,

449
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:47,440
Speaker 1: Like say you got a group house with like four

450
00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:49,400
Speaker 1: people in their twenties living in it, who are all

451
00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:52,560
Speaker 1: you know, professionals or they're all or they're all you know,

452
00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:57,520
Speaker 1: they're yeah, exactly, you know, you know what I'm talking about.

453
00:23:57,560 --> 00:24:02,600
Speaker 1: So yep. If then you build more multi family housing,

454
00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:06,720
Speaker 1: you build more apartments like that, those people might prefer

455
00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:09,800
Speaker 1: a living because then they get their own space. Then

456
00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:11,679
Speaker 1: you free up all of this other housing for then

457
00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:14,760
Speaker 1: for actual families, single family housing for single families. Right,

458
00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:19,040
Speaker 1: So it's not necessarily an either or. If you're saying like, hey,

459
00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:21,480
Speaker 1: we need more single family homes, well, one way to

460
00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:23,840
Speaker 1: free up more single family homes is to make it

461
00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:25,800
Speaker 1: so that you're not packing so many people into so

462
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:29,159
Speaker 1: many of them. Give those people a place. And I

463
00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:31,720
Speaker 1: think the broader point is that you know this indication

464
00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:34,679
Speaker 1: that you pulled from the BEEA. I think I have

465
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:38,520
Speaker 1: the exact sentence in front of me. Yeah. Real GDP

466
00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:40,639
Speaker 1: turned up in the third quarter, increasing two point six

467
00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:43,040
Speaker 1: percent after decreasing point six percent in the second quarter.

468
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:47,920
Speaker 1: The upturn primarily reflected a smaller decrease in private inventory investment,

469
00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:51,600
Speaker 1: in acceleration in non residential fixed investment, and an upturn

470
00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:54,879
Speaker 1: in federal government spending that were partly offset by a

471
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:58,480
Speaker 1: larger decrease in residential fixed investment and a deceleration and

472
00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:02,399
Speaker 1: consumer spending import turned down. That's the paragraph that you

473
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:05,320
Speaker 1: pulled out, and you can see how all of these

474
00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:08,560
Speaker 1: things are happening on the surface, and then beneath that

475
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:12,560
Speaker 1: is lurking. I think something pretty troubling. And this is

476
00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:15,600
Speaker 1: going to this is this is throwing gasoline on that fire.

477
00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:17,560
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't mean that with the sense of

478
00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:20,440
Speaker 1: like intentionality, but it's making a bad situation worse, So

479
00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:23,240
Speaker 1: it is kind of intentional. Well, yeah, it's not like

480
00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:25,280
Speaker 1: they don't know that that's going about it. If the

481
00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:30,280
Speaker 1: reduction in broker's fees can warrant a mention in the

482
00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:34,560
Speaker 1: overall GDP, it's impact on overall GDP, that is a

483
00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:39,600
Speaker 1: massive reduction. Suck to be a real estate broker right now. Yeah,

484
00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:42,040
Speaker 1: if you're watching this, I feel for you. This must

485
00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:44,840
Speaker 1: have been a rough couple months and again taking a

486
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:47,480
Speaker 1: bad situation and making it worse in ways that will

487
00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:50,280
Speaker 1: ripple out. So we'll continue to pay attention to that.

488
00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:54,800
Speaker 1: Should we move on to the Chip's news. Let's do

489
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:59,760
Speaker 1: that all right? Well, the CHIPS legislation has seemed to

490
00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:03,800
Speaker 1: our already been yielding fruit, and I'm sure you remember

491
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:08,560
Speaker 1: what was passed to just the summer a pretty bipartisan

492
00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:13,840
Speaker 1: basis to incentivize chips manufacturers to reshore to come back

493
00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:18,360
Speaker 1: to the United States a shockingly huge portion of semiconductors,

494
00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:21,679
Speaker 1: which sounds again like I was not paying attention at

495
00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:24,160
Speaker 1: all to the semiconductor discourse until a couple of years ago.

496
00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:29,240
Speaker 1: And when you like look at exactly how desperately we

497
00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:33,119
Speaker 1: need semiconductors for our entire economy, let alone our military.

498
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:36,480
Speaker 1: That's not even getting into the national security implications, you

499
00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:41,720
Speaker 1: realize how these these chips are crucial to the health

500
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:43,960
Speaker 1: of the United States, and a huge swath of them

501
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:47,920
Speaker 1: are manufactured in Taiwan. Last week, as the Congress convened

502
00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:52,320
Speaker 1: over in China, Hu Jinping got his third term and

503
00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:56,119
Speaker 1: basically signaled that he thinks he should be moving up

504
00:26:56,160 --> 00:27:00,000
Speaker 1: that timeline on potentially moving in on Taiwan at LEAs

505
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:02,840
Speaker 1: that's the way a lot of China experts read his

506
00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:06,320
Speaker 1: comments in regard to Taiwan last week, which I think

507
00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:10,800
Speaker 1: we're you know, they're sort of characteristically and predictably vague.

508
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:13,920
Speaker 1: But the China watchers who saw that, you know, so

509
00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:16,880
Speaker 1: this is an indication that he seems itchy even more

510
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:22,080
Speaker 1: itchy to move in on Taiwan. So the restoring efforts

511
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:24,760
Speaker 1: in the United States need to happen a whole lot faster.

512
00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:26,560
Speaker 1: And as it turns out, we don't have a lot

513
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:29,480
Speaker 1: of people who are qualified to work in the industry. Yeah,

514
00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:32,480
Speaker 1: so we could put this put this element up reporting

515
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:37,000
Speaker 1: here from Computer World, which dives dives into the labor

516
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:40,840
Speaker 1: shortage all across the board. The CEOs and the other

517
00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:43,679
Speaker 1: and the hiring managers interviewed in the story like we

518
00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:47,040
Speaker 1: can't find people for anything. Yep, Like we're getting killed.

519
00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:50,200
Speaker 1: One guy's like, you know, it took me a year

520
00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:53,639
Speaker 1: searching the world to find this what engineer for this position,

521
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:56,240
Speaker 1: and then it took nine months to get the visa approved.

522
00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 1: Nine months is fast? Like that guy's lucky that they

523
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:03,639
Speaker 1: got that through in nine months. Our immigration policy around

524
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:07,640
Speaker 1: this hasn't been updated in thirty years. There's there are

525
00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:10,600
Speaker 1: there are quotas that we have that are capped that

526
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:13,439
Speaker 1: once you've gotten a certain number of people in on

527
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:17,720
Speaker 1: these on these particular visas, that's it. You're you're done.

528
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:22,320
Speaker 1: Nobody else can get through the backlog because of you know,

529
00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:28,720
Speaker 1: inadequate funding, plus trying to trying to manage like a

530
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:32,359
Speaker 1: nineteen eighties law in a twenty twenties economy. Plus and

531
00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:37,440
Speaker 1: we've talked about this before, it actually matters. No government

532
00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:42,040
Speaker 1: has ever wanted to invest in like tech upkeep. So

533
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:45,320
Speaker 1: they're all running on like should see these like computer

534
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:47,400
Speaker 1: like you think you're walking into the set of like

535
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:52,400
Speaker 1: a nineteen eighties like movie about like like halt catch

536
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:55,840
Speaker 1: fire or something. But the technology is developed here. That's

537
00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:58,360
Speaker 1: what's super frustrating. Government can't buy it because they're like

538
00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:00,760
Speaker 1: afraid that the washing post is going to catch them

539
00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:04,160
Speaker 1: like spending money on computers or something. So a lot

540
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:06,800
Speaker 1: of the research just used Microsoft word one. It's fine.

541
00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:11,080
Speaker 1: The research that people are using in Taiwan to manufacture

542
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:12,800
Speaker 1: these chips that are used in the United States are

543
00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:15,680
Speaker 1: imported in the United States is American research for the

544
00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:18,080
Speaker 1: most part. And that's per Computer World's reporting, which is

545
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 1: like done largely by immigrants here at American universities. And

546
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:27,959
Speaker 1: it's just like an amazing, amazing, like cycle of just stupidity.

547
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:31,000
Speaker 1: It's just so dumb. And this is what computer World

548
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:34,400
Speaker 1: wrote in July, as Intel, Samsung, TSMC, and others move

549
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:37,360
Speaker 1: ahead with plans for new computer chip development. And manufacturing

550
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:39,560
Speaker 1: plants in the US. Those efforts are running into a

551
00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:41,640
Speaker 1: new headwind. There aren't enough people with the skills needed

552
00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:44,640
Speaker 1: to run facilities, as you mentioned. Brian Computer World followed

553
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:47,959
Speaker 1: up this month in a report exactly about that and

554
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:50,920
Speaker 1: said recent initiatives to bring tech manufacturing back to America

555
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:54,760
Speaker 1: are working, according to the Restoring Initiative. In its report,

556
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:57,000
Speaker 1: the group predicted twenty twenty two, we'll see a record

557
00:29:57,080 --> 00:30:01,239
Speaker 1: three hundred and fifty thousand new jobs directly related to

558
00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:06,240
Speaker 1: domestic companies bringing work back stateside and offshore companies committing

559
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:10,320
Speaker 1: foreign direct investment to their US based divisions and facilities.

560
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:13,480
Speaker 1: All right, so three hundred and fifty thousand new jobs

561
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:18,520
Speaker 1: is fantastic. We need people to work in those jobs

562
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:22,239
Speaker 1: and then to contribute to the American economy for that

563
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:25,080
Speaker 1: number to really be positive. Because if you have three

564
00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:28,040
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty k new jobs and you can't fill them, well,

565
00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:29,920
Speaker 1: I don't know what we're going to do. Because the

566
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:32,680
Speaker 1: Washington Post also just this week said and the engineering

567
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:37,280
Speaker 1: shortage in the US is frustrating the chips industry. Harvard

568
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:41,000
Speaker 1: Business Review here's where it's also terrifying. In a new

569
00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:44,040
Speaker 1: review said We found that the time it would take

570
00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:47,440
Speaker 1: the supply chain to recover or return to normal operations

571
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:51,280
Speaker 1: from a ten day disruption of production at one fab

572
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:54,920
Speaker 1: would be nearly twelve months and would create significant financial

573
00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:59,880
Speaker 1: losses across all supply chain partners just a ten day disruption.

574
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:05,840
Speaker 1: So imagine Hi Jinping moves in on Taiwan and manufacturings

575
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:09,840
Speaker 1: that they're saying right now twelve months, twelve months. We

576
00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:12,600
Speaker 1: are not remotely equipped for that. We have been just

577
00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:16,360
Speaker 1: pretending this problem isn't happening for years and years and years,

578
00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:19,400
Speaker 1: and now we're in a situation where we're sending billions

579
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:23,480
Speaker 1: of money, billions of dollars to Ukraine and fixated either

580
00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:26,240
Speaker 1: whether you think it's rightfully or wrongfully on that front,

581
00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:30,720
Speaker 1: and Xi Jinping knows that. So this whole thing reminded

582
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:34,320
Speaker 1: me of this fascinating exchange between and I was able

583
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:36,400
Speaker 1: to find it just now between Trump and Bannon back

584
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:39,680
Speaker 1: in twenty fifteen. You might remember this interview. Trump was

585
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:44,920
Speaker 1: on his Bannon's Bright Bart radio program and they had

586
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:48,080
Speaker 1: a disagreement over immigration policy. And I'm curious how you

587
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:51,600
Speaker 1: think this has shaken out in the seven years since then.

588
00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:56,920
Speaker 1: So it starts with Trump saying it's a shame that

589
00:31:56,960 --> 00:32:00,280
Speaker 1: so many kind of foreign born Ivy League graduates aren't

590
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:04,040
Speaker 1: allowed to stay in America after they graduate because they

591
00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:06,280
Speaker 1: would be keep what he called they would be job creators,

592
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:09,880
Speaker 1: as he says it, which sounds like a common sense

593
00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:12,600
Speaker 1: thing anyway, like why did you spend all this money

594
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:14,760
Speaker 1: training somebody and then kick them out of the country

595
00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:16,600
Speaker 1: so they can go take their talent elsewhere, although they

596
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:18,320
Speaker 1: spend a lot of money getting trained here as well.

597
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:21,360
Speaker 1: It's a huge incentive. Yeah, it's great. We went on

598
00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:26,680
Speaker 1: every which way. And so then Trump sees Bannon like

599
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:30,400
Speaker 1: kind of being skeptical, and Trump's like, we have to

600
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:34,120
Speaker 1: keep our talented people in this country. And Bannon says,

601
00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:38,280
Speaker 1: I'm good to transfer there, and Trump says, I think

602
00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:41,280
Speaker 1: you agree with that? Do you agree with that? And

603
00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:44,200
Speaker 1: then Bannon says, well, I got a tougher you know,

604
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:46,520
Speaker 1: when two thirds or three quarters of the CEOs in

605
00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:48,920
Speaker 1: Silicon Valley are from South Asia or from Asia. I

606
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:52,800
Speaker 1: think my point is a country's more like a country's

607
00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:56,440
Speaker 1: more than an economy. We're a civic society. So Bannon's like, no,

608
00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:00,719
Speaker 1: go home. So what that perspective misses is that you

609
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:03,120
Speaker 1: can walk into your gum at the same time, meaning

610
00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:06,520
Speaker 1: and that would mean basically that if you want one

611
00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:08,040
Speaker 1: part of it, you have to have the other part

612
00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:11,160
Speaker 1: of it. So we should have a strong civic culture

613
00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:14,840
Speaker 1: and we should do things to make that more robust,

614
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:17,320
Speaker 1: there's no question about it. But we don't have a choice.

615
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:19,720
Speaker 1: We really do not have a choice at this point.

616
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:22,320
Speaker 1: If we are at a situation right now, at this

617
00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:26,200
Speaker 1: very moment where if something were to disrupt for ten days,

618
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:32,000
Speaker 1: just manufacturing of semiconductors. They are so they're like, what's

619
00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:34,080
Speaker 1: a good example. I mean, it's like a domino, right,

620
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:37,000
Speaker 1: or just something that you pull that one thread out

621
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:39,320
Speaker 1: of the fabric and it all starts to unravel. That's

622
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:41,440
Speaker 1: what they are to our supply chain. Even though they

623
00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:45,560
Speaker 1: sound like this, you know abstruse concept that tech people

624
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:49,520
Speaker 1: only care about these things are crucial. They'll be a

625
00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:52,280
Speaker 1: metaphor in the future. Yeah, it'll feel like it'd be

626
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:56,760
Speaker 1: like taking the chip out. I don't want that to happen,

627
00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:58,840
Speaker 1: but I think it's going to do. So that's the

628
00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:02,440
Speaker 1: point that you have to make to people who and

629
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:05,360
Speaker 1: I think again, there's like sort of reasons for skepticism

630
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:10,480
Speaker 1: about contributing to the American project, the American economy, if

631
00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:13,080
Speaker 1: you don't really care that much about America, if it's

632
00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:15,120
Speaker 1: just all about money, and that maybe what steep In

633
00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:17,799
Speaker 1: and thinks the situation is the bottom line is we

634
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:20,279
Speaker 1: don't have a choice, and you can do more to

635
00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:23,359
Speaker 1: cultivate that sense of sort of patriotism anyway. And so

636
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:26,360
Speaker 1: the chips legislation is throwing money at it, and we'll

637
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:29,960
Speaker 1: see whether the multinational corporations involved here just keep the

638
00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:32,640
Speaker 1: money or actually invested here. There's that something. There's some

639
00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:36,080
Speaker 1: evidence that they're already sending it off shore. The second

640
00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:39,640
Speaker 1: question is immigration. Can we get people here you know

641
00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:43,440
Speaker 1: to be would be can we actually create more of

642
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:47,080
Speaker 1: a domestic supply of these workers, like can we can

643
00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:50,839
Speaker 1: we actually start doing stem education better? Can we can

644
00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:55,799
Speaker 1: we make our own pipelines? But the third part is

645
00:34:55,840 --> 00:35:01,800
Speaker 1: this rather radical move that Biden made just before she's speech.

646
00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:05,680
Speaker 1: And we've talked about Chrysln Sager have talked about this here,

647
00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:10,680
Speaker 1: but this is his export control ban on chip on

648
00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:15,640
Speaker 1: chip technology. People like people follow who followed this industry

649
00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:18,920
Speaker 1: just completely shocked to see such an aggressive move. It's

650
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:21,560
Speaker 1: saying these high tech chips which China does not have

651
00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:24,840
Speaker 1: yet have the tech capacity to produce, but is trying

652
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:29,040
Speaker 1: to You cannot export these anymore. Like it was, it's

653
00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:33,319
Speaker 1: a huge dramatic ratching up. Did we do that first

654
00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:37,080
Speaker 1: to them? Well, yeah, yes they have. I mean they've

655
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:39,640
Speaker 1: they mess around with us all the time. They messed

656
00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:41,680
Speaker 1: around with our solar panel stuff, but we have never

657
00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:48,840
Speaker 1: done anything this severe around around export controls. And it's

658
00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:52,200
Speaker 1: it's giving you know, people say, well, this might make

659
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:55,759
Speaker 1: him invage Taiwan earlier. Other people say that that the

660
00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:58,319
Speaker 1: fact that he's going to do it anyway means that

661
00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:01,480
Speaker 1: you cannot you cannot be exporting this technology that will

662
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:04,440
Speaker 1: give them a quantum leap in their in their military

663
00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:09,319
Speaker 1: and other economic capacity. Uh. Quick story, and then we've

664
00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:12,719
Speaker 1: got to move on to the next one. So there's

665
00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:16,040
Speaker 1: this book that I think is like every everybody should

666
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:18,759
Speaker 1: read if they're if they're curious about this called The

667
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:24,320
Speaker 1: Long Game by this guy rush Doshi, that that sketches

668
00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:27,640
Speaker 1: out Yeah, that's that's that's kind of takes a pretty

669
00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:30,640
Speaker 1: hawkish It gives a hawkish lens to the US China

670
00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:35,040
Speaker 1: relationship and really examines what it is that, uh, you know,

671
00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:39,600
Speaker 1: is the Chinese government's long term strategy. And he's kind

672
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:41,920
Speaker 1: of so hard edged and clear eyed about it that

673
00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:43,640
Speaker 1: a couple of months ago I was like, I got

674
00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:45,320
Speaker 1: to have this guy. After I finished book, I was like,

675
00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:47,319
Speaker 1: I got to have this guy on my podcast. I

676
00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:49,360
Speaker 1: want to hear from it. So I reach out to

677
00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:54,080
Speaker 1: somebody who actually to a stoler who knows him, and

678
00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:58,440
Speaker 1: he's like, oh, he's at the NSC now, So he

679
00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:01,640
Speaker 1: now is the director of China. That's the National Security

680
00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:06,319
Speaker 1: Council for Biden. And having read that book, it is

681
00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:09,799
Speaker 1: a remarkable fact that that the US, which has been

682
00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:14,560
Speaker 1: so dubvish on from both parties for so long toward

683
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:18,920
Speaker 1: kind of cooperation with China, permanent trade relations, et cetera,

684
00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:24,440
Speaker 1: has somebody with this kind of perspective on them. And

685
00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:29,320
Speaker 1: so when when this was announced, when Jake Sullivan announced this,

686
00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:34,560
Speaker 1: this chip export ban, he said, this is one national

687
00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:39,080
Speaker 1: security decision. This is not about an economic decision. So

688
00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:42,920
Speaker 1: we'll see if this becomes bipartisan. But this like this

689
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:46,799
Speaker 1: is a new kind of era in US China relations. Well,

690
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:50,080
Speaker 1: and that's what's pathetic is that it took essentially an emergency,

691
00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:52,920
Speaker 1: you know, to wake the United States up and to

692
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:56,880
Speaker 1: reshoring should hopefully bring with it a host of economic

693
00:37:56,960 --> 00:37:59,799
Speaker 1: and national security benefits and cultural benefits along with those

694
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:04,200
Speaker 1: noomic benefits, meaning you can have more company towns organized

695
00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:07,600
Speaker 1: around these these areas that have really good jobs and

696
00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:10,360
Speaker 1: that sort of have the ripple effect going out from there.

697
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:14,760
Speaker 1: But again, these things did not just go to China

698
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:17,920
Speaker 1: in like the case of happenstance, like this was an

699
00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:22,080
Speaker 1: intentional thing, like moving manufacturing of these to Taiwan, moving

700
00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:24,920
Speaker 1: manufacturing or letting so much manufacturing go to China. This

701
00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:28,319
Speaker 1: stuff happened as you know, launch on Taiwan. What what

702
00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:31,399
Speaker 1: are you thinking when you know, like where this is headed? Well,

703
00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:35,320
Speaker 1: they did it. Nobody, nobody thirty years ago was like, uh,

704
00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:38,840
Speaker 1: are we sure? No? I led right off China's mainland

705
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:42,520
Speaker 1: that they claim with some legitimacy. I went back in

706
00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:45,279
Speaker 1: the place to put this semiconductor industry. I went back

707
00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:47,719
Speaker 1: and read Bill Clinton a New York Times article about

708
00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:50,399
Speaker 1: what Bill Clinton was saying around the time of the

709
00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:56,760
Speaker 1: WTO And it is shocking what level of just incompetence

710
00:38:56,920 --> 00:39:00,200
Speaker 1: informed that decision. And nobody wants to, you know, make

711
00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:02,800
Speaker 1: their own country. They live in that country, their grandchildren

712
00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:04,120
Speaker 1: live in that country, and yeah, if they have a

713
00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:05,680
Speaker 1: bunch of money, they know they'll be fine. But at

714
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:07,840
Speaker 1: the same time, they want to have a good historical legacy,

715
00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:09,920
Speaker 1: like there's incentive to do a good job as president.

716
00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:12,360
Speaker 1: And they really thought that was a good decision. Truly

717
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:14,040
Speaker 1: thought that was a good decision. And that's because you

718
00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:16,480
Speaker 1: have people tripping in your ear, for whom it will

719
00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:19,440
Speaker 1: immediately be a great decision. And it's good for some

720
00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:20,880
Speaker 1: of them. Yeah, it's good for some of them. And

721
00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:23,200
Speaker 1: just right before it's just a terrifying fact. To end

722
00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:26,560
Speaker 1: this on a ren An analysis this week that if

723
00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:29,880
Speaker 1: you get a new chip company in the United States

724
00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:33,440
Speaker 1: from point A to point B, so starting construction, opening

725
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:36,080
Speaker 1: up the doors for years. Think about that and think

726
00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:39,960
Speaker 1: about that in Chijin Pang's mind, because that doesn't leave

727
00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:42,879
Speaker 1: us any room. One thing I learned from Doschei's book.

728
00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:45,640
Speaker 1: Back when Clinton was doing that, there's there's strategy had

729
00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:49,560
Speaker 1: a name. It was called Hide Capabilities and bide Time's

730
00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:51,960
Speaker 1: that's what they named it up through two thousand and

731
00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:54,279
Speaker 1: eight and after the two thousand and eight financial crisis,

732
00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:56,920
Speaker 1: like all right, let's roll. Yeah, we did. We did

733
00:39:56,960 --> 00:39:59,920
Speaker 1: great on that. He's really red. We've we've hidden ca

734
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:02,560
Speaker 1: abilities enough, so we saw right through that. All right,

735
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:04,840
Speaker 1: let's talk about the World Cup. Actually, I don't know

736
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:06,920
Speaker 1: if I've ever asked her. You a soccer fan. I

737
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:09,839
Speaker 1: played soccer in high school? Does that count? No? Really,

738
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:13,080
Speaker 1: I'm not really a soccer for your football guy. American foot,

739
00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:16,719
Speaker 1: American football, right, I mean, soccer is fine. Like, I

740
00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:18,920
Speaker 1: don't hate it, like, no watching it as much as

741
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:21,160
Speaker 1: some people do. No, I like soccer. But that said,

742
00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:24,239
Speaker 1: this is not a happy soccer story at all. This

743
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:29,360
Speaker 1: is a sort of crazy story that will surely develop

744
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:33,840
Speaker 1: over the next few months. This from the Associated Press.

745
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:36,840
Speaker 1: A former CIA officer who spied on Cutter's rivals to

746
00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:39,760
Speaker 1: help the tiny Arab country land this year's World Cup

747
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:43,399
Speaker 1: is now under FBI scrutiny, and newly obtained document show

748
00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:47,440
Speaker 1: he offered clandestine services that went beyond soccer to try

749
00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:51,000
Speaker 1: to influence US policy. That's according to their own investigation.

750
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:54,480
Speaker 1: They added. The month's long FBI probe focuses on whether

751
00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:58,600
Speaker 1: Kevin Chalker's work for Cutter broke laws related to foreign lobbying, surveillance,

752
00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:01,879
Speaker 1: and exporting sensitive technology and trade cap tradecraft said two

753
00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:04,560
Speaker 1: people with knowledge of the investigation. All right, so the

754
00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:09,040
Speaker 1: FBI would not confirm or deny whether that investigation existed

755
00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:12,719
Speaker 1: to the Associated Press. And there are all kinds of

756
00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:16,600
Speaker 1: different parties wrapped up in this crazy story. You come

757
00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:20,080
Speaker 1: back to Tom Barrack and the United Arab Emirates lobbying,

758
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:23,000
Speaker 1: which Elliott Broydy is saying has something to do with

759
00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:26,120
Speaker 1: us because UAE and Cutter and it's just a mess.

760
00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:28,440
Speaker 1: What did you make of it as it broke on Thursday?

761
00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:32,080
Speaker 1: I wonder how much more of this we're going to

762
00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:36,120
Speaker 1: find because the World Cup, the competition for the World Cup,

763
00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:39,479
Speaker 1: is one of the most corrupt things on the planet. Uh.

764
00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:43,440
Speaker 1: And I think when it's a competition among golf countries,

765
00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:47,200
Speaker 1: it's gonna it's going to take the corruption level, you know,

766
00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:50,960
Speaker 1: up up several notches. I did a story We're involved

767
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:52,760
Speaker 1: in it, Like that's the best part of the story,

768
00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:55,640
Speaker 1: Like this is American lobbyists. I mean, we have the

769
00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:58,200
Speaker 1: best buys. Yeah, so if you're gonna if you're gonna

770
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:03,919
Speaker 1: hire one who better. I did a story a couple

771
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:11,080
Speaker 1: of years ago about the most audacious financial sabotage effort

772
00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:16,640
Speaker 1: I've ever come across. It was. I got documents, I

773
00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:21,480
Speaker 1: got the entire presentation that was put together by a

774
00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:26,680
Speaker 1: consulting firm and in a particular bank in Europe for

775
00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:29,440
Speaker 1: the United Arab Emirates on behalf of the United Arab Emirates,

776
00:42:29,719 --> 00:42:33,359
Speaker 1: which was livid that Cutter had gotten the World Cup.

777
00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:36,719
Speaker 1: This is like such a huge deal, you know, for

778
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:40,600
Speaker 1: for Cutter, and the Amoradis wanted a piece of it,

779
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:44,399
Speaker 1: and so they concocted this scheme where they were going

780
00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:48,680
Speaker 1: to corner and there is evidence that they actually carried

781
00:42:48,680 --> 00:42:51,640
Speaker 1: this out or carried pieces of it out. So they

782
00:42:51,640 --> 00:42:58,000
Speaker 1: were going to corner the Qatari currency using these various

783
00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:01,600
Speaker 1: brokerage houses and transactions, and then they spell all this out.

784
00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:04,319
Speaker 1: You can just google the main words I'm saying here,

785
00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:07,480
Speaker 1: you can go find the story. It's completely unbelievable. And

786
00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:10,000
Speaker 1: then they were going to use that to say like

787
00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:12,200
Speaker 1: look what a look what a mess Cutter is. Their

788
00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:14,799
Speaker 1: currency is like flying out of control. And then they

789
00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:16,520
Speaker 1: were going to go to Cutter and then they were

790
00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:18,280
Speaker 1: going to also they were going to sell it shorts.

791
00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:20,040
Speaker 1: They're going to make money on the side of it,

792
00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:24,000
Speaker 1: just leave it on the table. And then they're going

793
00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:25,759
Speaker 1: to go to Cutter and say, look, you want your

794
00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:29,080
Speaker 1: currency back, you have to have some of the games

795
00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:31,080
Speaker 1: here in the UAE. That's what they want. They just

796
00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:33,600
Speaker 1: wanted some games in this just like, you know what,

797
00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:37,120
Speaker 1: let them have a game. Who cares? Come on, man,

798
00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:39,960
Speaker 1: give a game. Like I feel bad for them that

799
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:43,000
Speaker 1: they're willing to go to these extraordinary lengths to destroy

800
00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:47,840
Speaker 1: like the entire economy. Then outing the UA very nearly

801
00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:52,319
Speaker 1: invaded Cutter during the Trump administration. Tillerson stopped him at

802
00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:56,640
Speaker 1: the last minute. Uh. The Kushner was I think quite

803
00:43:56,640 --> 00:43:59,800
Speaker 1: annoyed that he's that he stopped them. Kushner was siding

804
00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:02,200
Speaker 1: with them all the time. But they were like within

805
00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:06,120
Speaker 1: hours of like launching an actual invasion. And it wasn't

806
00:44:06,440 --> 00:44:08,680
Speaker 1: just that wasn't just about the World Cup, but the

807
00:44:08,719 --> 00:44:11,839
Speaker 1: fact that Cutter had gotten the World Cup had them

808
00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:14,359
Speaker 1: so worked up. Well, and this, I mean, this gets

809
00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:17,280
Speaker 1: into here's another quote from the AP Global Risk Advisor.

810
00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:21,080
Speaker 1: So that's the firm that Kevin Chalker works for and founded.

811
00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:24,680
Speaker 1: Also created a detailed security plan in twenty fourteen to

812
00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:27,960
Speaker 1: install a surveillance system in cutter that could track mobile

813
00:44:28,040 --> 00:44:31,400
Speaker 1: phones in the country with extreme accuracy and allow analysts

814
00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:36,360
Speaker 1: to isolate individual conversations and listen in real time. According

815
00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:39,640
Speaker 1: to internal company records that include a draft contract, and

816
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:43,320
Speaker 1: so Kevin Chalker is accused based on the Associated Press report,

817
00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:46,440
Speaker 1: which is based on documents. The AP says that it

818
00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:52,319
Speaker 1: has of just selling his soul basically, like what more

819
00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:55,239
Speaker 1: I should say, what a lot of people would consider

820
00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:58,840
Speaker 1: to be pieces of your soul, you know, in being

821
00:44:58,920 --> 00:45:04,319
Speaker 1: involved in that level of surveillance, being involved in that

822
00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:09,279
Speaker 1: level of corruption and selling it as a service for

823
00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:13,520
Speaker 1: personal profit to a foreign country is like really really

824
00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:17,160
Speaker 1: a remarkable thing to be accused of. And again, like

825
00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:19,640
Speaker 1: these are allegations right now, but it just speaks to

826
00:45:19,680 --> 00:45:22,520
Speaker 1: how much money is on the table. It's not just

827
00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:24,839
Speaker 1: money on the table. Is not just people know about

828
00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:27,360
Speaker 1: the World Cup correction corruption. It's been a storyline for

829
00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:30,879
Speaker 1: a while, but it's not just like what you see

830
00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:33,279
Speaker 1: in the headlines. There's also all these lobbyists like working

831
00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:36,400
Speaker 1: under the surface for themselves and this is a great

832
00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:39,480
Speaker 1: example of one of those. And Elliott Broydy, the Republic

833
00:45:40,360 --> 00:45:45,000
Speaker 1: RNC fundraiser who was pardoned by Trump is actually suing

834
00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:51,160
Speaker 1: Global Risk Advisors. Yes, he accuses them of basically hacking

835
00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:53,359
Speaker 1: his I think his wife's emails, getting it and then

836
00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:56,799
Speaker 1: getting into his own emails, and that's what led to Barrick, right,

837
00:45:56,840 --> 00:46:00,160
Speaker 1: That's what led to There was some I think there

838
00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:03,000
Speaker 1: was some evidence there about Barrack's roll that helped come out.

839
00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:06,520
Speaker 1: One of the one of the people that reported on

840
00:46:06,560 --> 00:46:09,880
Speaker 1: that was me. Actually, uh, and I've been subpoenaed as

841
00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:12,560
Speaker 1: part of this oh yeah yeah, part of this Broidy verse,

842
00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:14,640
Speaker 1: part of the Broider story of your subpoena. Yeah, I

843
00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:17,799
Speaker 1: gotta I got a subpoena which we're not responding to

844
00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:22,359
Speaker 1: and we're not because stop and which goes back to like,

845
00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:25,359
Speaker 1: look was that under the Trump administration? Yes, and then

846
00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:27,600
Speaker 1: he and then he got indicted, and I think the

847
00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:29,480
Speaker 1: case went away. But maybe now he's gotten part and

848
00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:31,799
Speaker 1: maybe the case will come back. But in general, like

849
00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:35,400
Speaker 1: reporters are just not going to talk about sources journalists, Yeah,

850
00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:39,279
Speaker 1: you're and because also I don't know, like somebody like

851
00:46:39,560 --> 00:46:44,439
Speaker 1: an anonymous source gave gave us documents, we confirmed whether

852
00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:46,840
Speaker 1: the documents were authentic or not, we reported on the documents.

853
00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:48,839
Speaker 1: I don't know anymore. So even if they did drag

854
00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:50,360
Speaker 1: me in to the court, which I wouldn't appear, but

855
00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:52,520
Speaker 1: if they did, like I can't help you. I don't know.

856
00:46:52,640 --> 00:46:54,279
Speaker 1: I mean, all this stuff becomes a question. With the

857
00:46:54,320 --> 00:46:56,640
Speaker 1: Associated Press report too, It's like, how are they getting

858
00:46:56,680 --> 00:46:59,480
Speaker 1: these documents right now? When there's this really bitter battle

859
00:46:59,520 --> 00:47:02,600
Speaker 1: between of those parties. It raises the question of what

860
00:47:02,800 --> 00:47:05,960
Speaker 1: is going on here? What kind of sort of warfare

861
00:47:06,640 --> 00:47:08,879
Speaker 1: is this? Right? And Broidy has wanted to take these

862
00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:11,960
Speaker 1: people down, you know, I think he's got a vendetta.

863
00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:14,759
Speaker 1: I mean, he blames them for ruining his life, so

864
00:47:16,120 --> 00:47:18,600
Speaker 1: not surprising he would have a vendetta, but it looks

865
00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:20,680
Speaker 1: like he may have gotten one. I mean, just a

866
00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:25,640
Speaker 1: really basic tip, don't violet Pharah and don't act unethically.

867
00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:29,359
Speaker 1: But it's just too much, there's more money, too much

868
00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:32,320
Speaker 1: to ask. But they also always have the ethical calculus

869
00:47:32,320 --> 00:47:35,240
Speaker 1: of like, well this money is is you know, that's

870
00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:39,080
Speaker 1: that's for my children, that's for comforts, et cetera, et cetera.

871
00:47:40,320 --> 00:47:45,880
Speaker 1: Don't sell out your country. Just pro tip. Yeah, just stop,

872
00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:52,560
Speaker 1: all right, Ryan? Next next to the points, put those

873
00:47:52,560 --> 00:47:57,600
Speaker 1: glasses on and uh have some water. The whole routine. Right.

874
00:47:57,680 --> 00:47:59,319
Speaker 1: I don't know if people notice this when the show

875
00:47:59,440 --> 00:48:04,239
Speaker 1: ends Texas, he's still doing just a reflex. Yeah, but

876
00:48:04,480 --> 00:48:07,040
Speaker 1: what's your point to that? So my point today is

877
00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:10,040
Speaker 1: this one. So if you needed a sign of just

878
00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:13,200
Speaker 1: how flipped upside down our politics, I've gotten. This week

879
00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:16,520
Speaker 1: saw the cause of peace and diplomacy championed by the

880
00:48:16,560 --> 00:48:19,360
Speaker 1: most watched host on Fox News, as well as the

881
00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:23,719
Speaker 1: crew over at Podsave America, while the Congressional Progressive Caucus

882
00:48:23,800 --> 00:48:26,480
Speaker 1: beat such a quick retreat from it, beat such a

883
00:48:26,520 --> 00:48:29,480
Speaker 1: quick retreat from a call for diplomacy that now seems

884
00:48:29,480 --> 00:48:33,080
Speaker 1: like there's practically no room inside the Democratic Party for

885
00:48:33,200 --> 00:48:37,600
Speaker 1: anybody concerned about the rapidly escalating war in Ukraine. So

886
00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:41,040
Speaker 1: on Monday, the CPC, that's the Congressional Progressive Caucus, had

887
00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:44,200
Speaker 1: sent a cautiously worded letter to the White House urging

888
00:48:44,239 --> 00:48:47,600
Speaker 1: Biden to engage Russia directly in diplomacy to stave off

889
00:48:47,640 --> 00:48:50,279
Speaker 1: a nuclear catastrophe and bring an end to the war,

890
00:48:50,520 --> 00:48:54,400
Speaker 1: but only on terms acceptable to the Ukrainians. That moderate

891
00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:57,799
Speaker 1: effort was intended to start a conversation, and it certainly did,

892
00:48:58,200 --> 00:49:01,239
Speaker 1: though not the one that they were looking for amid criticism,

893
00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:05,439
Speaker 1: CPC chair per Milagejiapaul first quote clarified the letter, saying

894
00:49:05,440 --> 00:49:09,080
Speaker 1: the progressive still unequivocally supported military aid to Ukraine, and

895
00:49:09,160 --> 00:49:12,240
Speaker 1: the next day she then fully withdrew the letter, blaming

896
00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:15,359
Speaker 1: staff for sending it out unvetted and promising they would

897
00:49:15,440 --> 00:49:20,239
Speaker 1: only support negotiations quote after Ukrainian victory unquote. So that

898
00:49:20,280 --> 00:49:24,200
Speaker 1: allowed Tucker Carlson and Tulsey Gabbard to say that Democrats

899
00:49:24,480 --> 00:49:29,080
Speaker 1: had now become a home exclusively for warhawks, progressives in

900
00:49:29,120 --> 00:49:32,279
Speaker 1: the party, the liberals acting like liberals have acted for

901
00:49:32,320 --> 00:49:34,400
Speaker 1: like one hundred years, and saying maybe we should and

902
00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:36,359
Speaker 1: I want to say I agree with him completely. We

903
00:49:36,400 --> 00:49:39,480
Speaker 1: should try to get a peace forged before we all die.

904
00:49:39,880 --> 00:49:42,239
Speaker 1: And then they have to retract it. Why here at

905
00:49:42,280 --> 00:49:46,320
Speaker 1: home and how it's negatively impacting gas prices, increasing inflation

906
00:49:46,560 --> 00:49:50,000
Speaker 1: and so on. These progressives in the letter, they didn't

907
00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:53,279
Speaker 1: say stop sending aid to Ukraine. Now. All they said was, hey,

908
00:49:53,600 --> 00:49:57,560
Speaker 1: President Biden, engage in diplomacy. And the response they got,

909
00:49:57,560 --> 00:50:00,320
Speaker 1: of course from the warmongers who controlled the Democrat Party

910
00:50:00,320 --> 00:50:05,319
Speaker 1: in Washington, was to immediately be smashed to pieces. So

911
00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:10,200
Speaker 1: much so that these Democrat members of Congress cowered in

912
00:50:10,239 --> 00:50:12,799
Speaker 1: the corner with fear and now have gone so far

913
00:50:12,880 --> 00:50:16,959
Speaker 1: out of their way apologizing profusely for having the audacity

914
00:50:17,360 --> 00:50:20,360
Speaker 1: to call for diplomacy in this war that's putting us

915
00:50:20,440 --> 00:50:23,719
Speaker 1: all at risk. But now everyone in the Democrat Party

916
00:50:23,719 --> 00:50:28,200
Speaker 1: and the leadership in Washington is walking in lockstep as warhawks,

917
00:50:28,600 --> 00:50:32,480
Speaker 1: no one daring to even step outside the line and say, hey, diplomacy,

918
00:50:32,640 --> 00:50:36,080
Speaker 1: let's exercise diplomacy. So this kind of segment, which allows

919
00:50:36,120 --> 00:50:38,640
Speaker 1: Tucker to be the voice of anybody skeptical of war,

920
00:50:39,120 --> 00:50:42,000
Speaker 1: is exactly what the podsave boys had warned about earlier

921
00:50:42,080 --> 00:50:44,799
Speaker 1: that day. So here's Ben Rhoades, a top Obama national

922
00:50:44,840 --> 00:50:47,359
Speaker 1: Security aid and incidentally the guy who coined the term

923
00:50:47,400 --> 00:50:51,960
Speaker 1: the blob to describe the reflexively hawkish DC foreign policy establishment.

924
00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:55,360
Speaker 1: You make the right point that what Biden's saying is

925
00:50:55,400 --> 00:50:58,719
Speaker 1: I won't negotiate around the settlement that Ukraine has to

926
00:50:58,760 --> 00:51:00,920
Speaker 1: accept without them. Doesn't mean we don't have things to

927
00:51:00,960 --> 00:51:03,040
Speaker 1: talk to the Russians about. Means Biden's not gonna sit

928
00:51:03,120 --> 00:51:04,960
Speaker 1: there and say, well, maybe you can keep this part

929
00:51:04,960 --> 00:51:06,520
Speaker 1: of Ukraine and not that part of Ukraine, that's not

930
00:51:06,560 --> 00:51:08,839
Speaker 1: going to happen. But to your point, if you don't

931
00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:12,240
Speaker 1: create any space for kind of debate in the center

932
00:51:12,280 --> 00:51:16,400
Speaker 1: here around this policy, you know where all the concerns

933
00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:17,759
Speaker 1: about the war are going to go. They're going to

934
00:51:17,800 --> 00:51:21,040
Speaker 1: go to where Kevin McCarthy took it right, which is like, hey,

935
00:51:21,120 --> 00:51:23,840
Speaker 1: I'm getting comfortable here. There's nuclear threats. Let's cut off

936
00:51:23,880 --> 00:51:25,920
Speaker 1: the Ukrainians, right, a lot of money. So you know,

937
00:51:25,960 --> 00:51:28,400
Speaker 1: to some of you, like some of the Ukraine stands

938
00:51:28,440 --> 00:51:30,960
Speaker 1: on Twitter or whatever, who like just you know, pile

939
00:51:31,040 --> 00:51:34,360
Speaker 1: on this stuff, you may might be creating the outcome

940
00:51:34,400 --> 00:51:37,439
Speaker 1: you don't want because by punishing anybody who says, let's

941
00:51:37,440 --> 00:51:42,040
Speaker 1: have diplomacy, the only alternative to your position, you know,

942
00:51:43,960 --> 00:51:46,319
Speaker 1: is where Ken McCarthy's going, which is like, hey, let's

943
00:51:46,320 --> 00:51:48,920
Speaker 1: cut these where Tucker Carlson is or yeah, I mean

944
00:51:48,960 --> 00:51:51,360
Speaker 1: there's clearly a void of his avoid of and like

945
00:51:51,560 --> 00:51:54,080
Speaker 1: just Ewan Musk is feeling it, or like David Sachs,

946
00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:57,880
Speaker 1: some like idiot tech investor, right wing goober is filling it.

947
00:51:57,920 --> 00:52:00,600
Speaker 1: You know, it's like, yeah, why don't we have the CPC,

948
00:52:00,800 --> 00:52:03,919
Speaker 1: the Congression, the progressive in the house fill it? You'll

949
00:52:03,920 --> 00:52:06,480
Speaker 1: at least try well, that would be a very healthy

950
00:52:06,520 --> 00:52:09,399
Speaker 1: place to fill. So Giapaul's claim of a staff error

951
00:52:09,520 --> 00:52:12,000
Speaker 1: was a terrible look, but it wasn't necessarily one hundred

952
00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:15,360
Speaker 1: percent wrong. The staff apparently didn't give the other offices

953
00:52:15,400 --> 00:52:17,239
Speaker 1: a heads up that they would be sending this letter

954
00:52:17,280 --> 00:52:20,480
Speaker 1: out after several months have been spent collecting signatures, but

955
00:52:20,600 --> 00:52:23,200
Speaker 1: blaming her staff for that doesn't make much sense because

956
00:52:23,280 --> 00:52:26,959
Speaker 1: Giapaul routinely sends out CPC statements without letting the rest

957
00:52:26,960 --> 00:52:29,600
Speaker 1: of the CPC know that they're coming. In fact, her

958
00:52:29,640 --> 00:52:33,040
Speaker 1: statement withdrawing the letter itself was not run by the

959
00:52:33,080 --> 00:52:36,640
Speaker 1: other twenty nine members on whose behalf she was withdrawing it.

960
00:52:37,120 --> 00:52:39,960
Speaker 1: The biggest error wasn't in the rollout. The mistake was

961
00:52:40,000 --> 00:52:43,400
Speaker 1: in retreating. If she'd have stood her ground, the blowback

962
00:52:43,440 --> 00:52:45,080
Speaker 1: would have died out by the end of the day.

963
00:52:45,480 --> 00:52:47,759
Speaker 1: And there are a ton of unlikely places she can

964
00:52:47,800 --> 00:52:51,640
Speaker 1: point to say, Look, what we're saying is just common sense. Hell,

965
00:52:51,719 --> 00:52:55,360
Speaker 1: here's Henry Kissinger. He said, quote, negotiations need to begin.

966
00:52:55,960 --> 00:52:58,560
Speaker 1: Can you do? How's your Henry Kissinger? Negotiations need to

967
00:52:58,600 --> 00:53:01,440
Speaker 1: begin the next two months before there it's upheavals intentions

968
00:53:01,440 --> 00:53:04,200
Speaker 1: that will not be easily overcome. Ideally, the dividing line

969
00:53:04,200 --> 00:53:06,920
Speaker 1: should be a return to the status quo ante pursuing

970
00:53:06,960 --> 00:53:08,920
Speaker 1: the war beyond the point would not be about the

971
00:53:08,960 --> 00:53:13,240
Speaker 1: freedom of Ukraine, but a new war against Russia itself. Anyway,

972
00:53:13,239 --> 00:53:16,320
Speaker 1: here's retired Rear Admiral Mike Mullen, who's former chairman of

973
00:53:16,360 --> 00:53:19,200
Speaker 1: the Joint Chiefs of Staff. We've been talking about since

974
00:53:19,280 --> 00:53:23,120
Speaker 1: before this crisis started. An offer him for him. I

975
00:53:23,200 --> 00:53:26,560
Speaker 1: suspect it's in the east, if you will, with those

976
00:53:26,640 --> 00:53:31,480
Speaker 1: four provinces or some combination of them. With respect to

977
00:53:32,040 --> 00:53:34,520
Speaker 1: how it all ends, and that really is up to

978
00:53:34,640 --> 00:53:37,200
Speaker 1: I think Tony Blink and other diplomats to figure out

979
00:53:37,560 --> 00:53:42,360
Speaker 1: a way to get both Zelenski and Putin to the table.

980
00:53:43,400 --> 00:53:46,759
Speaker 1: And is typical in any war, it's got to end,

981
00:53:46,960 --> 00:53:50,480
Speaker 1: and usually there are negotiations associated with that. The sooner

982
00:53:50,560 --> 00:53:53,719
Speaker 1: the better. And here's Secretary of State Tony blink In

983
00:53:53,880 --> 00:53:57,760
Speaker 1: just one week ago, and we've reaffirmed documented to meaningful

984
00:53:57,760 --> 00:54:00,319
Speaker 1: diplomacy that can bring an end to the war. As

985
00:54:00,320 --> 00:54:03,680
Speaker 1: Moscow continues to demonstrate through its exclatory actions that it's

986
00:54:03,680 --> 00:54:06,400
Speaker 1: claim to be open to diplomacy is as hollow as

987
00:54:06,400 --> 00:54:10,239
Speaker 1: it's been since Clersman Putin lost launched his invasion in February.

988
00:54:10,680 --> 00:54:12,880
Speaker 1: And that's not surprising, given that the White House was

989
00:54:12,880 --> 00:54:15,759
Speaker 1: actually fine with the letter that was later withdrawn. The

990
00:54:16,520 --> 00:54:19,239
Speaker 1: Washington Post even reported quote the White House did not

991
00:54:19,320 --> 00:54:21,399
Speaker 1: think the letter was a big deal when officials first

992
00:54:21,400 --> 00:54:23,799
Speaker 1: received it, a White House aide said, noting that the

993
00:54:23,880 --> 00:54:27,040
Speaker 1: lawmakers went to great pains to praise BID's approach to

994
00:54:27,160 --> 00:54:31,560
Speaker 1: Ukraine and express support for economic and military packages unquote.

995
00:54:31,840 --> 00:54:35,760
Speaker 1: Progressives could even also have found backup from the Pope,

996
00:54:35,840 --> 00:54:39,200
Speaker 1: who said this last month quote, after seven months of hostilities,

997
00:54:39,239 --> 00:54:41,960
Speaker 1: let us use all diplomatic means, even those that may

998
00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:44,440
Speaker 1: not have been used so far, to bring an end

999
00:54:44,719 --> 00:54:48,360
Speaker 1: to this terrible tragedy. War in itself is an error

1000
00:54:48,440 --> 00:54:52,440
Speaker 1: and a horror. So Emily, you got Kissinger, you got

1001
00:54:52,440 --> 00:54:56,359
Speaker 1: the Pope, you got Mike Mullin Obama on the pod

1002
00:54:56,440 --> 00:55:02,799
Speaker 1: save Well. I am going to be squinting a little bit,

1003
00:55:02,840 --> 00:55:05,520
Speaker 1: so bear with me. Just this week, Disney's new plus

1004
00:55:05,600 --> 00:55:09,320
Speaker 1: size Protagonists went viral. The Internet debated one of Taylor

1005
00:55:09,320 --> 00:55:13,000
Speaker 1: Swift's new music videos and questioned whether it was fat phobic.

1006
00:55:13,360 --> 00:55:16,399
Speaker 1: So why are we arguing so much about weight? Well,

1007
00:55:16,440 --> 00:55:19,839
Speaker 1: the answer is pretty simple, because it affects most Americans.

1008
00:55:19,920 --> 00:55:23,600
Speaker 1: Nearly three in four adults are overweight, some forty percent

1009
00:55:23,680 --> 00:55:26,200
Speaker 1: are obese. As of this year, fifty six percent of

1010
00:55:26,239 --> 00:55:30,439
Speaker 1: Americans say they're trying to lose weight actively. Now there's

1011
00:55:30,480 --> 00:55:33,439
Speaker 1: a critical class element to this as well that gets

1012
00:55:33,480 --> 00:55:36,320
Speaker 1: missed in a lot of the discussion, As the CDC notes, overall,

1013
00:55:36,400 --> 00:55:40,239
Speaker 1: men and women with college degrees had lower obesity prevalence

1014
00:55:40,320 --> 00:55:44,280
Speaker 1: compared with those with less education. Among women, a twenty

1015
00:55:44,280 --> 00:55:48,880
Speaker 1: seventeen study found from the CDC overall obesity prevalence decreased

1016
00:55:49,000 --> 00:55:53,279
Speaker 1: with increased levels of income and educational attainment. So while

1017
00:55:53,360 --> 00:55:57,520
Speaker 1: food executives get rich off of questionable marketing practices, at best,

1018
00:55:57,880 --> 00:55:59,640
Speaker 1: they lobby to get away with those. By the way,

1019
00:56:00,000 --> 00:56:03,440
Speaker 1: the magazine writers will cast fat phobia as a social

1020
00:56:03,640 --> 00:56:07,240
Speaker 1: justice issue between their spin classes. People who work three shifts,

1021
00:56:07,280 --> 00:56:10,879
Speaker 1: can't afford pelotons, and live paycheck to paycheck are being told, well,

1022
00:56:10,920 --> 00:56:14,200
Speaker 1: it's not actually that important to prioritize diet and exercise.

1023
00:56:14,600 --> 00:56:18,560
Speaker 1: Those writers are putting up virtual virtue signal points on

1024
00:56:18,600 --> 00:56:20,879
Speaker 1: their own boards at the expense of people who look

1025
00:56:20,960 --> 00:56:25,320
Speaker 1: to them for accurate information. Remember Cosmo's This is Healthy

1026
00:56:25,320 --> 00:56:29,080
Speaker 1: addition from the middle of the pandemic, a pandemic by

1027
00:56:29,080 --> 00:56:31,920
Speaker 1: the way, that was targeting people who were dealing with obesity.

1028
00:56:32,320 --> 00:56:36,360
Speaker 1: The magazine, which is owned by Hurst QK, profiled women

1029
00:56:36,400 --> 00:56:39,920
Speaker 1: who wanted to quote open up about their personal journeys

1030
00:56:40,239 --> 00:56:44,360
Speaker 1: to reclaim healthy as their own, and Cosmo wasn't alone.

1031
00:56:44,560 --> 00:56:47,719
Speaker 1: The quote fat but fit debate has really raged over

1032
00:56:47,760 --> 00:56:51,440
Speaker 1: the last decade, and many publications, eager to score clicks

1033
00:56:51,520 --> 00:56:54,880
Speaker 1: in social justice points went out at the healthy at

1034
00:56:54,920 --> 00:56:58,719
Speaker 1: any size limb. Now. To be fair, many outlets have

1035
00:56:58,840 --> 00:57:02,080
Speaker 1: done good coverage of research that suggests fat butt fit

1036
00:57:02,280 --> 00:57:05,520
Speaker 1: is generally a myth, and some people are absolutely part

1037
00:57:05,560 --> 00:57:08,279
Speaker 1: of a well intentioned effort to help everyone struggling with

1038
00:57:08,320 --> 00:57:11,200
Speaker 1: their weight feel confident in their dignity as a human being.

1039
00:57:11,600 --> 00:57:14,400
Speaker 1: As more people struggle with weight, more people need to

1040
00:57:14,480 --> 00:57:17,640
Speaker 1: hear that message, of course, but it cannot be conflated

1041
00:57:17,720 --> 00:57:22,080
Speaker 1: with deadly and misleading body positivity messaging either. And here's

1042
00:57:22,160 --> 00:57:25,000
Speaker 1: where we get to the big news. In early September,

1043
00:57:25,000 --> 00:57:28,880
Speaker 1: the journal Nature Reviews Clinical Oncology published a study tile

1044
00:57:29,040 --> 00:57:34,240
Speaker 1: titled is early onset cancer in emerging global epidemic, current

1045
00:57:34,320 --> 00:57:39,160
Speaker 1: evidence and future implications. In that survey, researchers from Harvard

1046
00:57:39,240 --> 00:57:43,320
Speaker 1: reviewed global cancer data defined as CNN reported, quote that

1047
00:57:43,400 --> 00:57:47,480
Speaker 1: the incidence of early onset cancers is rising rapidly for

1048
00:57:47,560 --> 00:57:50,840
Speaker 1: coorectal and thirteen other types of cancers, many of which

1049
00:57:50,840 --> 00:57:54,480
Speaker 1: affect the digestive system, and this increases happening across many

1050
00:57:54,560 --> 00:57:57,680
Speaker 1: middle and high income nations. All Right, so is this

1051
00:57:57,760 --> 00:57:59,920
Speaker 1: because of increased screening? That's a question a lot of

1052
00:58:00,000 --> 00:58:03,680
Speaker 1: people might wonder. The researchers actually address it. Quote. Increased

1053
00:58:03,760 --> 00:58:06,720
Speaker 1: use of screening programs has contributed to this phenomenon to

1054
00:58:06,760 --> 00:58:10,000
Speaker 1: a certain extent, although a genuine increase in the incidence

1055
00:58:10,040 --> 00:58:12,960
Speaker 1: of early onset forms of several cancer types also seems

1056
00:58:13,000 --> 00:58:16,720
Speaker 1: to have emerged, they wrote. One of the researchers told CNN, quote,

1057
00:58:16,720 --> 00:58:19,240
Speaker 1: the spike is due to an unhealthy stew of risk

1058
00:58:19,320 --> 00:58:22,080
Speaker 1: factors that are probably working together, some of which are

1059
00:58:22,120 --> 00:58:25,720
Speaker 1: known and others that need to be investigated, saying quote,

1060
00:58:25,760 --> 00:58:31,480
Speaker 1: many of these risks have established links to cancer, like obesity, inactivity, diabetes, alcohol, smoking,

1061
00:58:31,600 --> 00:58:34,760
Speaker 1: environmental pollution, and Western diets high in red meat and

1062
00:58:34,800 --> 00:58:37,760
Speaker 1: added sugars not to mention shift work and lack of sleep,

1063
00:58:38,200 --> 00:58:41,800
Speaker 1: and the researcher added there are many unknown risk factors

1064
00:58:41,800 --> 00:58:45,040
Speaker 1: as well, like a pollutant or food additives. Nobody knows.

1065
00:58:46,200 --> 00:58:50,080
Speaker 1: Nobody knows, Let's just focus on that point. CNN picked

1066
00:58:50,080 --> 00:58:52,880
Speaker 1: the study up in October, but few other media outlets

1067
00:58:52,920 --> 00:58:57,000
Speaker 1: focused on it at all. Regarding obesity, CNN wrote in

1068
00:58:57,040 --> 00:58:59,320
Speaker 1: its report on the study, quote, not only has it

1069
00:58:59,360 --> 00:59:02,880
Speaker 1: become more to have a dangerously high body mass index,

1070
00:59:03,120 --> 00:59:07,200
Speaker 1: but people are becoming obese earlier in life, even in childhood.

1071
00:59:07,280 --> 00:59:10,880
Speaker 1: So these cancer risks are building decades earlier than they

1072
00:59:10,920 --> 00:59:14,480
Speaker 1: did for previous generations. So forty percent of the adult

1073
00:59:14,560 --> 00:59:18,080
Speaker 1: population is obese. That number is rising. Obesity is now

1074
00:59:18,120 --> 00:59:21,600
Speaker 1: causing suffering at a higher rate like cancer and death.

1075
00:59:21,960 --> 00:59:24,920
Speaker 1: The causes are likely all around us and the food

1076
00:59:24,960 --> 00:59:27,560
Speaker 1: we eat, the air we breathe, the chemicals we consume

1077
00:59:27,600 --> 00:59:30,280
Speaker 1: and wear and use in our houses and offices. But

1078
00:59:30,560 --> 00:59:33,480
Speaker 1: just CNN is going to focus on the study from

1079
00:59:33,520 --> 00:59:36,960
Speaker 1: Harvard researchers. We talked last week about what Kevin McCarthy

1080
00:59:37,000 --> 00:59:39,480
Speaker 1: plans to do if Republicans win the House, which will

1081
00:59:39,480 --> 00:59:42,880
Speaker 1: heavily be focused on quote oversight, because that's pretty much

1082
00:59:42,920 --> 00:59:45,720
Speaker 1: what you can do in a divided government. Republicans plan

1083
00:59:45,800 --> 00:59:49,520
Speaker 1: to investigate some good stuff, the Biden family lobbying grift,

1084
00:59:49,640 --> 00:59:53,640
Speaker 1: the origins of COVID. Just this week, though, the FDA

1085
00:59:53,800 --> 00:59:57,000
Speaker 1: issued yet another benzing recall, this time related to a

1086
00:59:57,360 --> 01:00:01,880
Speaker 1: dry shampoop products. Benzing is a carcone. One expert said.

1087
01:00:02,000 --> 01:00:05,160
Speaker 1: It is possible to refine the propane buttane and ice

1088
01:00:05,680 --> 01:00:09,680
Speaker 1: ice abbutane, any of these propellants to not contain detectable

1089
01:00:09,760 --> 01:00:13,960
Speaker 1: levels of benzene, So why can't corporations do that or

1090
01:00:13,960 --> 01:00:17,480
Speaker 1: why aren't they? There have been six benzene recalls this year,

1091
01:00:17,560 --> 01:00:21,040
Speaker 1: and this is just an example from one chemical. As

1092
01:00:21,040 --> 01:00:23,720
Speaker 1: we've emerged from the pandemic with a new awareness of

1093
01:00:23,760 --> 01:00:28,320
Speaker 1: how obesity interacts with health outcomes. More generally, I'd love

1094
01:00:28,400 --> 01:00:32,160
Speaker 1: to know what evidence major food companies have about their products.

1095
01:00:32,200 --> 01:00:34,400
Speaker 1: I think a lot of Democrats would love to know

1096
01:00:34,440 --> 01:00:37,640
Speaker 1: that too, and a lot of independence. Now that Republicans

1097
01:00:37,680 --> 01:00:40,240
Speaker 1: are boasting a little bit about their broken relationship with

1098
01:00:40,280 --> 01:00:43,400
Speaker 1: the Chamber of Commerce, they can, at least in theory,

1099
01:00:43,840 --> 01:00:47,160
Speaker 1: just take the gloves off in every arena of corporate corruption,

1100
01:00:47,280 --> 01:00:49,840
Speaker 1: even once that they've never touched before. So what better

1101
01:00:49,920 --> 01:00:52,280
Speaker 1: place to start than the one that is directly killing

1102
01:00:52,360 --> 01:00:55,520
Speaker 1: millions of us and making life significantly worse for millions

1103
01:00:55,520 --> 01:00:59,200
Speaker 1: of people on a daily basis. Technology is new in

1104
01:00:59,240 --> 01:01:00,800
Speaker 1: a lot of these areas, is we don't think of

1105
01:01:00,800 --> 01:01:07,160
Speaker 1: technology with food as being new technology of food. Big

1106
01:01:07,200 --> 01:01:10,320
Speaker 1: news out Thursday on the investigation of the origin of COVID.

1107
01:01:10,360 --> 01:01:13,520
Speaker 1: The Help Committee was a Health, Education, Labor Pensions committee

1108
01:01:13,640 --> 01:01:17,560
Speaker 1: put out an interim minority report that lays out much

1109
01:01:17,560 --> 01:01:20,560
Speaker 1: of what they've found so far in their investigation into

1110
01:01:20,680 --> 01:01:23,280
Speaker 1: what sparked the pandemic. If you can put up this

1111
01:01:23,360 --> 01:01:27,280
Speaker 1: element here. This is doctor Richard Ebright, micro biologist who

1112
01:01:27,280 --> 01:01:33,760
Speaker 1: has been skeptical of the zoonotic origin claim. He posts

1113
01:01:33,800 --> 01:01:36,880
Speaker 1: this quote from the report quote. Based on the analysis

1114
01:01:37,120 --> 01:01:41,120
Speaker 1: of the publicly available information, it appears reasonable to conclude

1115
01:01:41,160 --> 01:01:44,240
Speaker 1: that the COVID nineteen pandemic was more likely than not

1116
01:01:44,640 --> 01:01:48,680
Speaker 1: the result of a research related incident. Okay, so we're

1117
01:01:48,760 --> 01:01:52,160
Speaker 1: joined now by Justin Goodman, who's senior vice president over

1118
01:01:52,240 --> 01:01:56,040
Speaker 1: at the Whitecoat Waste Project, and so Justin, this was

1119
01:01:56,160 --> 01:02:02,000
Speaker 1: a fairly sober report. It did not kind of jump

1120
01:02:02,040 --> 01:02:04,520
Speaker 1: to any firm conclusions one way or another. What it does,

1121
01:02:04,760 --> 01:02:10,040
Speaker 1: it lays out the evidence behind the natural origin. It

1122
01:02:10,120 --> 01:02:12,320
Speaker 1: lays out the evidence against the natural origin, lays out

1123
01:02:12,320 --> 01:02:17,880
Speaker 1: the evidence for the for the lab hypothesism, what they

1124
01:02:17,920 --> 01:02:21,960
Speaker 1: call a research related incident. The evidence against that relies

1125
01:02:22,080 --> 01:02:26,040
Speaker 1: on public on what has been made public so far.

1126
01:02:26,120 --> 01:02:29,600
Speaker 1: They also say that this is part of an ongoing

1127
01:02:29,800 --> 01:02:34,000
Speaker 1: bipartisan investigation, the results of which will be out at

1128
01:02:34,040 --> 01:02:35,760
Speaker 1: some point in the future, where they want to get

1129
01:02:35,760 --> 01:02:38,960
Speaker 1: this interim report out. So, as somebody who's been tracking

1130
01:02:38,960 --> 01:02:41,440
Speaker 1: this for a long time, what did you make of

1131
01:02:41,480 --> 01:02:45,600
Speaker 1: this report? Well, I think this is the second authoritative

1132
01:02:45,720 --> 01:02:47,880
Speaker 1: report that's come out of Congress, the first coming out

1133
01:02:47,880 --> 01:02:52,800
Speaker 1: of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, documenting the evidence we

1134
01:02:52,880 --> 01:02:55,160
Speaker 1: have no direct evidence, but the evidence we have for

1135
01:02:55,200 --> 01:03:00,560
Speaker 1: both hypotheses of the evidence the origins of COVID, and

1136
01:03:00,600 --> 01:03:06,200
Speaker 1: I join the FBI and the majority of taxpayers according

1137
01:03:06,240 --> 01:03:09,080
Speaker 1: to Politico and Harvard polls, the majority of taxpayers Republicans

1138
01:03:09,080 --> 01:03:12,360
Speaker 1: and Democrats, and Richard you Bright another scientists and firmly

1139
01:03:12,400 --> 01:03:15,200
Speaker 1: believing at this point that the evidence we do have

1140
01:03:15,320 --> 01:03:18,640
Speaker 1: points to a lab leak, which is what Richard Burr

1141
01:03:19,240 --> 01:03:23,000
Speaker 1: found in this report that was released today. I think

1142
01:03:23,080 --> 01:03:25,720
Speaker 1: that at this point the best thing that any of

1143
01:03:25,840 --> 01:03:28,400
Speaker 1: us can be doing is looking forward and not looking backwards,

1144
01:03:28,680 --> 01:03:33,360
Speaker 1: because basically, Anthony Fauci, Peter Dashchik, and others have given

1145
01:03:33,440 --> 01:03:35,600
Speaker 1: China a three year head start on making sure that

1146
01:03:35,600 --> 01:03:38,440
Speaker 1: we never find out exactly what happened. That's exactly right.

1147
01:03:38,480 --> 01:03:41,240
Speaker 1: And the reason that we know so much shady stuff

1148
01:03:41,280 --> 01:03:43,200
Speaker 1: was going on actually is because a lot of the

1149
01:03:43,240 --> 01:03:46,920
Speaker 1: work that your group, the White Coat Waste Project in yourself,

1150
01:03:47,120 --> 01:03:48,840
Speaker 1: Justin has been doing over the course of the last

1151
01:03:48,840 --> 01:03:52,960
Speaker 1: several years to hold members of our government accountable for

1152
01:03:53,680 --> 01:03:56,760
Speaker 1: the research that they have been doing in terms of

1153
01:03:56,800 --> 01:03:59,520
Speaker 1: gain of function. And on that note, there was a

1154
01:03:59,560 --> 01:04:01,560
Speaker 1: story we covered here last week and that you've been

1155
01:04:01,560 --> 01:04:05,240
Speaker 1: falling really closely out of Boston University the research that

1156
01:04:05,320 --> 01:04:07,520
Speaker 1: there was something again we're getting into the sort of

1157
01:04:07,520 --> 01:04:10,840
Speaker 1: semantics about what is gain of function, but that there

1158
01:04:11,000 --> 01:04:13,080
Speaker 1: was what was it, a strain of omicron that was

1159
01:04:13,320 --> 01:04:17,520
Speaker 1: basically being grafted onto what the Washington State virus, and

1160
01:04:18,000 --> 01:04:20,320
Speaker 1: justin there was some evidence that again there was a

1161
01:04:20,360 --> 01:04:24,120
Speaker 1: government grant involved, and again the government didn't know that

1162
01:04:24,160 --> 01:04:26,120
Speaker 1: this is what was happening. With the grant. What did

1163
01:04:26,160 --> 01:04:30,240
Speaker 1: you make of that reporting? So, first of all, there

1164
01:04:30,280 --> 01:04:32,520
Speaker 1: wasn't one government grant involved. I think there were five

1165
01:04:32,640 --> 01:04:36,880
Speaker 1: government grants involved, several coming from Anthony Falluci's division at

1166
01:04:36,920 --> 01:04:39,320
Speaker 1: the NIH, and some core grants coming out of other

1167
01:04:39,360 --> 01:04:41,680
Speaker 1: divisions of the NIH. I mean, I think it just

1168
01:04:41,800 --> 01:04:44,520
Speaker 1: highlights what a joke the current oversight of gain of

1169
01:04:44,520 --> 01:04:49,120
Speaker 1: function is. I mean, it's basically an honor system, and

1170
01:04:49,160 --> 01:04:53,200
Speaker 1: you simply cannot trust dishonest mad scientists who are souping

1171
01:04:53,280 --> 01:04:57,080
Speaker 1: up coronaviruses and other dangerous virus lamps to chase tax money.

1172
01:04:57,240 --> 01:04:59,320
Speaker 1: We can't trust them to abide by the honor system,

1173
01:04:59,320 --> 01:05:00,760
Speaker 1: and they prove in time and again that they can't.

1174
01:05:00,800 --> 01:05:04,040
Speaker 1: Boston University is a great example. They took the omicron

1175
01:05:04,080 --> 01:05:07,240
Speaker 1: strain which had a zero percent lethality in mice, they

1176
01:05:07,280 --> 01:05:09,840
Speaker 1: combined it with the Washington or the original strain that

1177
01:05:09,840 --> 01:05:12,240
Speaker 1: came out of Wuhan, which had one hundred percent lethality,

1178
01:05:12,520 --> 01:05:15,160
Speaker 1: and they created a new strain of the virus that

1179
01:05:15,200 --> 01:05:17,400
Speaker 1: had eighty percent lethality in mice. So they took a

1180
01:05:17,520 --> 01:05:20,880
Speaker 1: zero percent omicron strain souped up to be eighty percent.

1181
01:05:21,280 --> 01:05:24,880
Speaker 1: That is the definition of gain to function. Yet the

1182
01:05:24,960 --> 01:05:26,960
Speaker 1: NIH says they had no idea what was going on there,

1183
01:05:27,160 --> 01:05:30,640
Speaker 1: and BU insists that they didn't need any oversight of this,

1184
01:05:30,800 --> 01:05:34,200
Speaker 1: not gain to function. What's interesting about all of this is,

1185
01:05:34,400 --> 01:05:38,160
Speaker 1: while this is unfolding quietly, the Biden administration a couple

1186
01:05:38,240 --> 01:05:42,000
Speaker 1: of weeks ago released its biodefense strategy for the next

1187
01:05:42,000 --> 01:05:45,840
Speaker 1: few years, and repeatedly in this report indicate that a

1188
01:05:45,960 --> 01:05:49,480
Speaker 1: lab accident or an intentional release of a bioweapon from

1189
01:05:49,560 --> 01:05:54,200
Speaker 1: a lab like this could cause another pandemic. So, while

1190
01:05:54,320 --> 01:05:57,520
Speaker 1: the administration has been loath to really invest in the

1191
01:05:57,600 --> 01:06:00,560
Speaker 1: lab leak theory and Democrats have been, you know, kind

1192
01:06:00,560 --> 01:06:04,280
Speaker 1: of gunshy about embracing it, certainly the administration thinks there's

1193
01:06:04,360 --> 01:06:07,560
Speaker 1: enough evidence that this pandemic was potentially caused by a

1194
01:06:07,640 --> 01:06:09,720
Speaker 1: lab leak, and there might be another one that maybe

1195
01:06:09,760 --> 01:06:12,200
Speaker 1: you should you reason visiting how we oversee this research

1196
01:06:12,240 --> 01:06:14,600
Speaker 1: and whether it should be funded at all. Yeah, justin

1197
01:06:14,600 --> 01:06:17,320
Speaker 1: what did you make of that Biden report? Because a

1198
01:06:17,360 --> 01:06:20,040
Speaker 1: lot of people who, as you know, are are very

1199
01:06:20,080 --> 01:06:24,040
Speaker 1: concerned about lab safety have become more concerned about lab

1200
01:06:24,120 --> 01:06:28,000
Speaker 1: safety in the wake of the pandemic. We're really heartened

1201
01:06:28,120 --> 01:06:31,400
Speaker 1: by that report, like found it to be surprisingly strong.

1202
01:06:31,920 --> 01:06:34,800
Speaker 1: Uh you know, you know, there are people pushing to

1203
01:06:34,800 --> 01:06:38,160
Speaker 1: make it, you know, significantly stronger. But it wasn't a

1204
01:06:38,200 --> 01:06:40,920
Speaker 1: total whitewash. What where where do you think that came from?

1205
01:06:41,000 --> 01:06:45,480
Speaker 1: And how does that clash with continuing to give these

1206
01:06:45,520 --> 01:06:48,720
Speaker 1: grants continuing to if you saw this one, there's a

1207
01:06:48,760 --> 01:06:52,560
Speaker 1: monkey pox gain a function project being done straight out

1208
01:06:52,560 --> 01:06:55,919
Speaker 1: of the NIH, now straight out like any Fauci's lab

1209
01:06:55,960 --> 01:06:59,160
Speaker 1: at the NIH. Yeah, So what do you make of that?

1210
01:06:59,160 --> 01:07:02,880
Speaker 1: That contrast? But the Biden administration itself seems to be

1211
01:07:02,920 --> 01:07:06,400
Speaker 1: at least waking up to some of these risks while

1212
01:07:06,400 --> 01:07:09,280
Speaker 1: the NIH isn't, and which seems kind of more important

1213
01:07:09,280 --> 01:07:12,640
Speaker 1: that the NIH wake up to it. Well, I think

1214
01:07:12,680 --> 01:07:14,680
Speaker 1: they could look at the history of this issue. I mean,

1215
01:07:14,960 --> 01:07:17,680
Speaker 1: you know, in the bio in the Obama Biden administration

1216
01:07:17,800 --> 01:07:21,000
Speaker 1: back in twenty fourteen, they essentially banned funding for gain

1217
01:07:21,040 --> 01:07:24,400
Speaker 1: of function experiments on coronaviruses because they were too dangerous.

1218
01:07:24,800 --> 01:07:27,680
Speaker 1: And that is so you know, a Democrat led White

1219
01:07:27,720 --> 01:07:30,640
Speaker 1: House took action on that issue, and then that was

1220
01:07:30,720 --> 01:07:33,840
Speaker 1: quietly lifted in twenty seventeen. Early in the Trump administration,

1221
01:07:33,960 --> 01:07:36,600
Speaker 1: apparently with very little knowledge of the White House at

1222
01:07:36,640 --> 01:07:40,400
Speaker 1: the urging of Anthony Fauci. I think there's a culture

1223
01:07:40,480 --> 01:07:43,400
Speaker 1: that someone like Anthony Fauci specifically, and listen, I don't

1224
01:07:43,440 --> 01:07:46,800
Speaker 1: have any bee for Anthony Fauci outside of his position

1225
01:07:47,000 --> 01:07:49,640
Speaker 1: and involvement in animal testing. You know, I think you

1226
01:07:49,680 --> 01:07:53,720
Speaker 1: could stand shoulders should of la Fauci on other coronavirus

1227
01:07:53,760 --> 01:07:57,240
Speaker 1: response issues and go toe to toe with him on

1228
01:07:57,360 --> 01:08:00,440
Speaker 1: gain of function and other horrible animal experiments on dogs

1229
01:08:00,440 --> 01:08:02,280
Speaker 1: and other things that we've revealed to the last few years.

1230
01:08:02,280 --> 01:08:04,000
Speaker 1: So I don't have a problem with him outside of that.

1231
01:08:04,040 --> 01:08:06,000
Speaker 1: I want to make that clear. But I think he's

1232
01:08:06,040 --> 01:08:09,600
Speaker 1: created a culture at the NIH where this type of

1233
01:08:09,720 --> 01:08:13,760
Speaker 1: dangerous experimentation is encouraged and oversight of it is diminished

1234
01:08:13,840 --> 01:08:16,720
Speaker 1: to the highest degree possible, where there's basically free reign

1235
01:08:16,840 --> 01:08:19,720
Speaker 1: to do whatever you want and maybe report it and

1236
01:08:19,760 --> 01:08:22,559
Speaker 1: maybe not and hope for the best. But that's been

1237
01:08:22,600 --> 01:08:24,880
Speaker 1: happening since two thousand and one and the War on Terror,

1238
01:08:24,920 --> 01:08:28,120
Speaker 1: and there were billions of dollars dumped into Fauci's division

1239
01:08:28,120 --> 01:08:31,040
Speaker 1: at the NIH for bioweapons Defense and Research, and a

1240
01:08:31,040 --> 01:08:33,160
Speaker 1: lot of it has turned into this crazy game of

1241
01:08:33,200 --> 01:08:37,839
Speaker 1: function experimentation that likely caused this pandemic? Is I promise

1242
01:08:37,920 --> 01:08:39,640
Speaker 1: you going to cause another one if we don't do

1243
01:08:39,680 --> 01:08:43,439
Speaker 1: something about it? Justin Republicans say, and Kevin McCarthy told

1244
01:08:43,479 --> 01:08:45,000
Speaker 1: me in fact, that one of the things they plan

1245
01:08:45,120 --> 01:08:48,559
Speaker 1: to investigate if they win the House of Representatives and

1246
01:08:48,680 --> 01:08:52,640
Speaker 1: have a new Congress is the origins of COVID and

1247
01:08:52,640 --> 01:08:56,120
Speaker 1: the origins of the pandemic. And they're saying that's one

1248
01:08:56,200 --> 01:08:58,599
Speaker 1: of the big agenda items come January if they win

1249
01:08:58,680 --> 01:09:02,000
Speaker 1: the House. My question you be, who's the first person

1250
01:09:02,240 --> 01:09:04,760
Speaker 1: that you would call to testify and what are some

1251
01:09:04,800 --> 01:09:07,880
Speaker 1: of the questions that you think absolutely need to be asked.

1252
01:09:09,760 --> 01:09:12,479
Speaker 1: Peter Dashchik probably would be number one. I mean he

1253
01:09:12,600 --> 01:09:14,840
Speaker 1: was on boots on the ground in Wuhan. I mean

1254
01:09:14,880 --> 01:09:18,280
Speaker 1: he was out there collecting that samples, working with bat Woman,

1255
01:09:18,439 --> 01:09:21,240
Speaker 1: working with the Wuhan Institute of Virology. You know, had

1256
01:09:21,280 --> 01:09:23,880
Speaker 1: a very close relationship with the Chinese Communist Party for

1257
01:09:23,920 --> 01:09:25,920
Speaker 1: a long time, spent a lot of time there and

1258
01:09:26,000 --> 01:09:28,480
Speaker 1: did a lot of their bidding in terms of obstructing

1259
01:09:28,520 --> 01:09:31,920
Speaker 1: investigations into the virus. Continues to until this day. And

1260
01:09:31,960 --> 01:09:34,120
Speaker 1: despite all that continues to get funding. So I think,

1261
01:09:34,320 --> 01:09:36,599
Speaker 1: you know, for me, he's witnessed number one. Number two

1262
01:09:36,680 --> 01:09:39,160
Speaker 1: is Fauci and finding out exactly what was happening in

1263
01:09:39,160 --> 01:09:41,840
Speaker 1: those early conversations and how early he really knew about

1264
01:09:41,840 --> 01:09:44,240
Speaker 1: the you know, the potential lab leak, because we now

1265
01:09:44,280 --> 01:09:47,360
Speaker 1: know through investigations through Foya's released to white Coat Waste

1266
01:09:47,400 --> 01:09:51,120
Speaker 1: Project and others that basically January of twenty twenty, there

1267
01:09:51,120 --> 01:09:55,840
Speaker 1: were conversations happening about this thing looks suspicious. Scientists who

1268
01:09:55,880 --> 01:09:57,920
Speaker 1: since that it probably came from the web market. We're

1269
01:09:57,920 --> 01:09:59,479
Speaker 1: saying back men that it looked like a lab leak.

1270
01:09:59,560 --> 01:10:01,800
Speaker 1: It was very it was a very suspicious virus, the

1271
01:10:01,840 --> 01:10:04,880
Speaker 1: spite protein was suspicious. Yet somehow they all did it

1272
01:10:04,960 --> 01:10:07,519
Speaker 1: about face and guess what a lot of them have

1273
01:10:07,600 --> 01:10:11,479
Speaker 1: been rewarded for doing that with increased funding. Peter Dashik

1274
01:10:11,520 --> 01:10:14,360
Speaker 1: has received over twenty million dollars a new taxpayer funding

1275
01:10:14,800 --> 01:10:19,240
Speaker 1: just since the pandemic began, including from NIH, including from USAID,

1276
01:10:19,400 --> 01:10:23,360
Speaker 1: including from the DoD. So there's been absolutely no accountability

1277
01:10:23,360 --> 01:10:26,080
Speaker 1: in transparency. I would love to see people who were

1278
01:10:26,120 --> 01:10:30,320
Speaker 1: involved in funding this research and obstructing investigations into the

1279
01:10:30,320 --> 01:10:33,760
Speaker 1: pandemic that killed six million people held accountable. I think

1280
01:10:33,800 --> 01:10:35,920
Speaker 1: what we need to do at this point, and everyone,

1281
01:10:36,000 --> 01:10:38,479
Speaker 1: Democrats and Republicans should agree about this. This is what

1282
01:10:38,520 --> 01:10:42,120
Speaker 1: taxpayers want. Polls have repeatedly shown this pause gain a

1283
01:10:42,160 --> 01:10:45,760
Speaker 1: function again for another five years. There's a bipartisan bill

1284
01:10:45,800 --> 01:10:48,360
Speaker 1: introduced by Henry quay Or, Buddy Carter and Mike Gallabert,

1285
01:10:48,400 --> 01:10:50,680
Speaker 1: the pause gain of Function research for five years while

1286
01:10:50,720 --> 01:10:53,360
Speaker 1: we get our hands around how and if we can

1287
01:10:53,400 --> 01:10:56,080
Speaker 1: conduct this type of experimentation in a way that doesn't

1288
01:10:56,160 --> 01:11:00,040
Speaker 1: risk causing a pandemic. So ban gain a function and

1289
01:11:00,200 --> 01:11:03,160
Speaker 1: funding for animal lads and countries that are literally our

1290
01:11:03,280 --> 01:11:05,320
Speaker 1: enemies and don't have our best interests in mind, like

1291
01:11:05,400 --> 01:11:08,200
Speaker 1: China and like Russia, where we've been sending tax money

1292
01:11:08,240 --> 01:11:12,200
Speaker 1: to animal labs with virtually oversight about what's happening. So

1293
01:11:12,880 --> 01:11:15,479
Speaker 1: Richard Burrow, the top Republican on the Help Committee who

1294
01:11:15,520 --> 01:11:20,720
Speaker 1: signed this minority report, also interestingly used to be chare

1295
01:11:20,720 --> 01:11:24,000
Speaker 1: of the Intelligence Committee and so presumably has some insight

1296
01:11:24,200 --> 01:11:30,280
Speaker 1: into this from that perspective. But I'm curious what your

1297
01:11:30,320 --> 01:11:33,639
Speaker 1: senses of where the Democrats are. I'm wondering the fact

1298
01:11:33,680 --> 01:11:35,760
Speaker 1: that he said that they're still working in a bipartisan

1299
01:11:35,800 --> 01:11:38,799
Speaker 1: fashion with the help Committee Democrats was at least heartening

1300
01:11:38,800 --> 01:11:42,800
Speaker 1: because I haven't seen any much other public evidence that

1301
01:11:42,800 --> 01:11:45,679
Speaker 1: Democrats are even remotely interested in this. Have you gotten

1302
01:11:45,720 --> 01:11:49,960
Speaker 1: anywhere with Democrats on the Hill on this issue? So

1303
01:11:50,000 --> 01:11:51,880
Speaker 1: in terms of someone signing their name on the dotted

1304
01:11:51,920 --> 01:11:55,000
Speaker 1: line and actually doing something, HENR. Quayar is the only

1305
01:11:55,040 --> 01:11:58,680
Speaker 1: one who's actually done anything, introducing legislation to put a

1306
01:11:58,720 --> 01:12:01,000
Speaker 1: pause on gain and function experience means for five years.

1307
01:12:01,200 --> 01:12:03,519
Speaker 1: And did he get did he get? Did he did

1308
01:12:03,560 --> 01:12:07,160
Speaker 1: he get? Protect our future money? In his campaign? Protect

1309
01:12:07,160 --> 01:12:11,360
Speaker 1: our futures? This is the bankman freed uh super pac

1310
01:12:11,880 --> 01:12:15,240
Speaker 1: which is which actually is concerned like like that They're

1311
01:12:15,280 --> 01:12:17,560
Speaker 1: big thing is like pandemic prevention. So I wonder what

1312
01:12:17,960 --> 01:12:20,519
Speaker 1: that might That would be my explanation. I can't imagine

1313
01:12:20,560 --> 01:12:23,160
Speaker 1: why Henry Quaar woke up one day and all of

1314
01:12:23,160 --> 01:12:29,280
Speaker 1: a sudden looking into voters probably are interested, Yeah, well,

1315
01:12:29,320 --> 01:12:32,040
Speaker 1: I mean yeah, they probably should be. I mean yeah,

1316
01:12:32,160 --> 01:12:34,600
Speaker 1: I mean, so that's possible. I mean I've had conversations

1317
01:12:34,600 --> 01:12:37,599
Speaker 1: with committee staff, Republicans and Democrats, including on the Energy

1318
01:12:37,600 --> 01:12:40,439
Speaker 1: and Commerce Committee, saying that there has been interest in

1319
01:12:41,320 --> 01:12:45,080
Speaker 1: majority leadership on the Energy and Commerce Committee except from

1320
01:12:45,120 --> 01:12:47,240
Speaker 1: Frank Polone, and he's been the one standing in the

1321
01:12:47,280 --> 01:12:50,280
Speaker 1: way of investigations on the House side, on the Senate side.

1322
01:12:50,280 --> 01:12:51,960
Speaker 1: According to the reports I saw at least in the

1323
01:12:51,960 --> 01:12:54,080
Speaker 1: New York Times, in the Wall Street Journal that broke

1324
01:12:54,160 --> 01:12:56,000
Speaker 1: later in the Day to day about the Center report,

1325
01:12:56,880 --> 01:12:59,680
Speaker 1: Patty Murray did seem to indicate that there is bipartisan

1326
01:13:00,120 --> 01:13:04,759
Speaker 1: communication and cooperation happening and they're still looking at finding

1327
01:13:04,800 --> 01:13:07,719
Speaker 1: common ground on investigating COVID origin. So I'm a little

1328
01:13:07,800 --> 01:13:13,240
Speaker 1: encouraged by that. I you know, it's frustrating because this is,

1329
01:13:13,320 --> 01:13:15,719
Speaker 1: you know, again, this is Pulled's show that people believe

1330
01:13:15,760 --> 01:13:17,120
Speaker 1: this is a lab leak. I mean, it's not some

1331
01:13:17,240 --> 01:13:19,960
Speaker 1: far fetched conspiracy theory like we were being you know,

1332
01:13:19,960 --> 01:13:21,640
Speaker 1: we were being labeled two years ago or two and

1333
01:13:21,640 --> 01:13:24,360
Speaker 1: a half years ago. I mean, the evidence is overwhelming.

1334
01:13:25,120 --> 01:13:27,960
Speaker 1: Circumstantial evidence is overwhelming that this came out of a lab.

1335
01:13:28,000 --> 01:13:30,200
Speaker 1: There's literally no evidence that came out of a wet mark,

1336
01:13:30,240 --> 01:13:32,040
Speaker 1: and even the papers saying that it came out of

1337
01:13:32,040 --> 01:13:34,400
Speaker 1: a web marker also saying that there's actually no evidence

1338
01:13:34,400 --> 01:13:37,439
Speaker 1: that started here, maybe it amplified here. Yet we have

1339
01:13:37,520 --> 01:13:41,120
Speaker 1: a virus that's eerily similar in construction to what caused

1340
01:13:41,160 --> 01:13:44,599
Speaker 1: the pandemic sitting in the Wuhan lab. Maybe brought there

1341
01:13:44,600 --> 01:13:47,479
Speaker 1: from Laos, maybe brought there from southern China by Peter

1342
01:13:47,600 --> 01:13:51,080
Speaker 1: Dashik and that lady. But I mean, I think you know.

1343
01:13:51,120 --> 01:13:53,080
Speaker 1: The report that was released by the Senate today is

1344
01:13:53,120 --> 01:13:56,200
Speaker 1: pretty comprehensive in recapping what we know as of today

1345
01:13:56,240 --> 01:13:58,160
Speaker 1: and led them to the conclusion that it looks most

1346
01:13:58,240 --> 01:14:00,160
Speaker 1: likely that it came out of a lab. So whether

1347
01:14:00,240 --> 01:14:02,479
Speaker 1: or not it did, the fact that the White House

1348
01:14:02,560 --> 01:14:05,839
Speaker 1: and both Houses of Congress, Democrats and Republicans, the FBI,

1349
01:14:05,920 --> 01:14:08,519
Speaker 1: and others believe that it's likely a pandemic that killed

1350
01:14:08,560 --> 01:14:10,080
Speaker 1: six and a half million people was caused by a

1351
01:14:10,160 --> 01:14:12,880
Speaker 1: lableau should cause us to do everything in our power

1352
01:14:12,880 --> 01:14:15,360
Speaker 1: to make sure that doesn't happen again, including and not

1353
01:14:15,439 --> 01:14:18,160
Speaker 1: limited to ban and gain a function research. And justin,

1354
01:14:18,200 --> 01:14:20,120
Speaker 1: before we let you go out, actually stand up for

1355
01:14:20,120 --> 01:14:23,840
Speaker 1: Henry Quaar's integrity. Please. He may be in bed with Ozerbaijean,

1356
01:14:23,920 --> 01:14:26,200
Speaker 1: but he did not get any money from Protect our Future.

1357
01:14:26,320 --> 01:14:29,759
Speaker 1: I see, I forgot about the Azerbaijean thing. Justin, before

1358
01:14:29,800 --> 01:14:32,759
Speaker 1: we let you go. White Coat Wastes is such an

1359
01:14:32,760 --> 01:14:36,000
Speaker 1: interesting project, and the way that you guys approach this

1360
01:14:36,080 --> 01:14:37,840
Speaker 1: issue is such an interesting project. We'll have to have

1361
01:14:37,880 --> 01:14:40,879
Speaker 1: you back some time to talk specifically about animal cruelty

1362
01:14:40,920 --> 01:14:43,560
Speaker 1: and the way at all the way your group was

1363
01:14:43,840 --> 01:14:47,479
Speaker 1: formed and has evolved. But tell us actually just a

1364
01:14:47,560 --> 01:14:50,880
Speaker 1: little bit about the mission of White Coat Waste because

1365
01:14:50,920 --> 01:14:53,960
Speaker 1: to Ryan's question about whether Democrats are sending on the

1366
01:14:53,960 --> 01:14:57,760
Speaker 1: dotted line, Initially, what you guys have been looking at was, well,

1367
01:14:57,760 --> 01:15:00,920
Speaker 1: how do we get Republicans on board with this issue

1368
01:15:00,920 --> 01:15:04,800
Speaker 1: of animal cruelty? That's absolutely right, I mean Whitecoat Waste.

1369
01:15:05,120 --> 01:15:07,400
Speaker 1: We consider ourselves to be a taxpayer watch drug group

1370
01:15:07,520 --> 01:15:11,200
Speaker 1: and we fight to end twenty billion dollars a year

1371
01:15:11,400 --> 01:15:14,320
Speaker 1: in tax payer funding for animal testing. The government actually

1372
01:15:14,400 --> 01:15:17,679
Speaker 1: outspands the private sector in animal testing two to one.

1373
01:15:18,200 --> 01:15:21,479
Speaker 1: And Whitecoat was started by my boss, our president and founder,

1374
01:15:21,520 --> 01:15:24,640
Speaker 1: Anthony Bolotti, who was a Republican political operative and he

1375
01:15:24,720 --> 01:15:27,519
Speaker 1: actually worked in an animal laboratory in high school for

1376
01:15:27,560 --> 01:15:30,040
Speaker 1: an internship and was so horrified. But by what he

1377
01:15:30,080 --> 01:15:32,759
Speaker 1: saw he thought, I'm going to go get a toolkit

1378
01:15:33,080 --> 01:15:35,600
Speaker 1: in politics and then one day circle back around and

1379
01:15:35,720 --> 01:15:38,519
Speaker 1: use those tools to fight against animal experimentation funded by

1380
01:15:38,520 --> 01:15:41,520
Speaker 1: the government. So he started Whitecoat. I was the first employee,

1381
01:15:41,520 --> 01:15:44,040
Speaker 1: and we take on federal agencies that are wasting tax

1382
01:15:44,080 --> 01:15:47,160
Speaker 1: dollars on cruel, dangerous, and you know, in many cases,

1383
01:15:47,280 --> 01:15:50,720
Speaker 1: just completely stupid experiments on animals. So we've actually met

1384
01:15:50,760 --> 01:15:52,719
Speaker 1: with the Trump Administrative We've met with the Trump White

1385
01:15:52,720 --> 01:15:55,599
Speaker 1: House in January twenty twenty to warn them about these

1386
01:15:55,680 --> 01:15:58,880
Speaker 1: labs in China, specifically the one Institute of Brology getting

1387
01:15:58,880 --> 01:16:02,040
Speaker 1: ANIH money. We've been following, you know, we've been following

1388
01:16:02,080 --> 01:16:04,519
Speaker 1: the people say follow the science, We've been following the money.

1389
01:16:04,520 --> 01:16:06,200
Speaker 1: And that's how we ended up at Wuhan. That's till

1390
01:16:06,240 --> 01:16:08,400
Speaker 1: we exposed beagle Gate, and that's how we're shutting some

1391
01:16:08,439 --> 01:16:12,400
Speaker 1: of these wasteful and cool programs down. It's just it's

1392
01:16:12,439 --> 01:16:16,040
Speaker 1: amazing how that position do you to be looking at

1393
01:16:16,080 --> 01:16:19,200
Speaker 1: what was happening in Wuhan through a mission like that one.

1394
01:16:19,200 --> 01:16:21,960
Speaker 1: And you're a former PEDA guy, aren't you justin Yeah,

1395
01:16:22,000 --> 01:16:24,960
Speaker 1: I spent ten years of PEDA working on you know,

1396
01:16:25,000 --> 01:16:28,519
Speaker 1: their style of advocacy. But you know, for me, they

1397
01:16:28,560 --> 01:16:31,280
Speaker 1: were not really attacking the root problem of animal experimentation,

1398
01:16:31,400 --> 01:16:35,360
Speaker 1: which is wasteful taxpayer spending if animals, If the taxpayers

1399
01:16:35,400 --> 01:16:37,880
Speaker 1: money was cut from animal experimentation, we changed the face

1400
01:16:37,920 --> 01:16:40,880
Speaker 1: of this problem completely. So our work is to unite.

1401
01:16:40,920 --> 01:16:43,120
Speaker 1: We call it, you know, we say, uniting liberty lovers

1402
01:16:43,120 --> 01:16:45,439
Speaker 1: and animal lovers to fight against wastefol government spending that

1403
01:16:45,520 --> 01:16:48,519
Speaker 1: hurts animals. And everything we do is bipartisan. I mean

1404
01:16:48,560 --> 01:16:50,880
Speaker 1: even the gain of function work. Obviously Henry Clayard is

1405
01:16:50,880 --> 01:16:53,639
Speaker 1: involved with bipartisan And even if things don't have bipartisan

1406
01:16:53,680 --> 01:16:56,360
Speaker 1: supporting Congress, every single thing we do work on has

1407
01:16:56,400 --> 01:16:59,360
Speaker 1: bipartisan support from taxpayers and that's who we're advocating for.

1408
01:17:00,080 --> 01:17:02,680
Speaker 1: Are some blood on Ryan before we started recording to them,

1409
01:17:02,720 --> 01:17:07,280
Speaker 1: but he brought another suit taping of this justin one.

1410
01:17:07,360 --> 01:17:09,960
Speaker 1: One quick question is there is there one place that

1411
01:17:10,080 --> 01:17:14,320
Speaker 1: has a kind of complete timeline and collection of all

1412
01:17:14,360 --> 01:17:17,280
Speaker 1: of the circumstantial evidence around you know, both theories or

1413
01:17:17,320 --> 01:17:22,040
Speaker 1: around either either theory. Do we need to write that still?

1414
01:17:22,120 --> 01:17:25,479
Speaker 1: Like what's the So I think, sorry, I'm there, we

1415
01:17:25,520 --> 01:17:28,680
Speaker 1: go US Right to Know. Our friends at US Right

1416
01:17:28,760 --> 01:17:32,280
Speaker 1: to Know have a great COVID origins timeline that they

1417
01:17:32,400 --> 01:17:35,240
Speaker 1: put together. I think the Center honestly the Center report

1418
01:17:35,280 --> 01:17:38,160
Speaker 1: that came out today is outstanding in terms of it

1419
01:17:38,280 --> 01:17:41,120
Speaker 1: was it was good. It didn't get enough I think

1420
01:17:41,160 --> 01:17:44,840
Speaker 1: into me under the circumstantial evidence around the Diffuse grant,

1421
01:17:44,920 --> 01:17:48,479
Speaker 1: the DARBA grant, like the the roadmap that was built

1422
01:17:48,560 --> 01:17:52,280
Speaker 1: and then potentially but it was really I think they

1423
01:17:52,280 --> 01:17:54,080
Speaker 1: did an incredible job of laying out all the different

1424
01:17:54,120 --> 01:17:58,519
Speaker 1: lab accidents at Wuhan and and in labs around the world.

1425
01:17:58,560 --> 01:18:01,000
Speaker 1: So I agree, I agree with you. But yes, so

1426
01:18:01,160 --> 01:18:03,680
Speaker 1: you think us right to know has us right to know?

1427
01:18:03,760 --> 01:18:05,640
Speaker 1: Has a great one. I don't know if we'll have

1428
01:18:05,800 --> 01:18:07,840
Speaker 1: diffused and some of the other stuff they haven't worked

1429
01:18:07,840 --> 01:18:10,639
Speaker 1: on directly. Obviously, most of the content we have up

1430
01:18:10,680 --> 01:18:13,760
Speaker 1: is related directly to things we've done. But if you're

1431
01:18:13,800 --> 01:18:16,839
Speaker 1: looking for a project on COVID origins, that's very useful.

1432
01:18:18,360 --> 01:18:20,920
Speaker 1: All right. Well, Justin Goodman, senior vice president over at

1433
01:18:20,960 --> 01:18:23,120
Speaker 1: the White Coat Waste Project, thank you so much for

1434
01:18:23,160 --> 01:18:26,920
Speaker 1: your time, Thanks for having me, absolutely and that does

1435
01:18:26,920 --> 01:18:31,320
Speaker 1: it today for us today on this edition of Counterpoints Friday.

1436
01:18:32,040 --> 01:18:34,479
Speaker 1: I'm going to remember my glasses next time. We'll see

1437
01:18:34,520 --> 01:18:38,200
Speaker 1: about that. Have a great weekend, everybody, yea, everyone,