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Speaker 1: On this week's episode of Cultivating her Space.

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Speaker 2: I want us all, and I say all because I

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Speaker 2: include myself in that, because there are times where I

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Speaker 2: misuse the words as well, and so I want us

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Speaker 2: all to do better in terms of how we use

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Speaker 2: the words only because of the impact that it has

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Speaker 2: when we misuse them.

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Speaker 1: Today's episode is sure to provide you with motivation, inspiration,

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Speaker 1: or a fresh perspective. If you have any AHA moments

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Speaker 1: or appreciate anything from this episode, please leave us a

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Speaker 1: review to let us know we're on the right track. Also,

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Speaker 1: we release episodes every Friday, so be sure to subscribe

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Speaker 1: on iTunes and visit cultivatingheirspace dot com to access our

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Speaker 1: exclusive after show and other bonus content from the Patreon tab.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Cultivating her Space, a podcast dedicated to uplifting

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Speaker 2: women like you doctor Dominique Brussard, a college professor and psychologist.

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Speaker 1: And Terry Lomax, a techie and motivational speaker. In a

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Speaker 1: world where black women are often misrepresented and misunderstood, please

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Speaker 1: join us as we initiate authentic conversations on everything from

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Speaker 1: five roids to fake friends, and create a safe space

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Speaker 1: where black women can just be.

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Speaker 2: Our quote of the day. Language is the road map

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Speaker 2: of a culture. It tells you where it's people come

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Speaker 2: from and where they are going. By Rita may Brown.

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Speaker 2: All right, I'm gonna say that one more time for

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Speaker 2: the people in the back. Language is the road map

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Speaker 2: of a culture. It tells you where it's people come

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Speaker 2: from and where they are going. All right, te you

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Speaker 2: know how we do?

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Speaker 1: How we do? Girl?

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Speaker 2: When you hear that quote, what what comes up for you?

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Speaker 1: Let me say I only said that because I was like,

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Speaker 1: if someone's listening for the first time, and they may

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Speaker 1: be like, what they be doing over here? So I

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Speaker 1: was like, what do we do?

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Speaker 2: Girl?

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Speaker 1: I got you? Girl? So don when I when you

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Speaker 1: just read this quote, what it made me think about

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Speaker 1: was certain times where I may have used a certain

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Speaker 1: slang term and or I heard someone else use it,

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Speaker 1: and based on what they said, I'm like, oh, I know,

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Speaker 1: I know where you're from. Let me get my voice together, y'all, Okay,

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Speaker 1: now now we're back. But based on whatever term it is,

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Speaker 1: they're like, oh, I know where you're from. So, for example, lady,

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Speaker 1: if you're listening to this episode and I say that's

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Speaker 1: joint hot, you no like okay, okay, okay, you were joint.

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Speaker 1: And it's so funny because people who not from Philly

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Speaker 1: like they'll use it and you're just like that it

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Speaker 1: don't sound right right, or like who you saw? Do

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Speaker 1: you whatever? That was something back in the day we

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Speaker 1: used to use. But it'sn't that true. You ever heard

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Speaker 1: someone use a certain slang term or even it could

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Speaker 1: be like an accent and you're like, oh, I know

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Speaker 1: exactly where you're from, right, Like if you're from yes,

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Speaker 1: what did they say? They'd be like, I got sa

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Speaker 1: I used to live in Queens, y'all. But that's the

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Speaker 1: areas like HeLa, right, like you know, Hella crazy whatever,

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Speaker 1: like that's from the Bay. But I feel like for

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Speaker 1: the and why it's a damn it's a word I'm

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Speaker 1: thinking of. I can't even think of it, and people

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Speaker 1: are gonna be like, damn, girl, you forgot the word.

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Speaker 1: But what do you think about when you when you

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Speaker 1: hear this quote?

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Speaker 2: It makes me think of similarly what you pointed out

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Speaker 2: right that like it language, the words that we use

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Speaker 2: are so important and it really tells you a lot

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Speaker 2: about the people that slang terms in particular tell you

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Speaker 2: a lot about that particular group of people who were

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Speaker 2: using those terms. It makes me think of like generational

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Speaker 2: differences in the language that people use and how words

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Speaker 2: the meaning of words can change over time based on

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Speaker 2: who's using them and so and so, you know, and

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Speaker 2: it really helps us the tone for our conversation today,

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Speaker 2: right that there are a lot of psychology terms that

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Speaker 2: are used in these streets. And who I just I

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Speaker 2: want us all. And I say all because I include

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Speaker 2: myself in that, because there are times where I misuse

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Speaker 2: the words as well, and so I want us all

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Speaker 2: to do better in terms of how we use the words,

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Speaker 2: only because of the impact that it has when we

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Speaker 2: misuse them.

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Speaker 1: I was going to ask you that, like, what is

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Speaker 1: the why behind it? I will say, Okay, so the

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Speaker 1: New York word that I was thinking of is dead ass,

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Speaker 1: and somebody be like dead ass, like you already know

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Speaker 1: where they're from. So I just said that, Really, you never.

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Speaker 2: Heard nobody say that. I mean, I've heard people say,

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Speaker 2: but I didn't realize that the origins were from New York.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I had to close the loop on that. But

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Speaker 1: dom as you were saying, like, it is super important

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Speaker 1: for us to understand the words that we're using, especially

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Speaker 1: in this day and age right where we have these

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Speaker 1: buzzwords being thrown around on social media. You don't know

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Speaker 1: if the person I mean people have good intentions, but

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Speaker 1: you don't know if people are using them correctly, and

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Speaker 1: then when you go in to use them in daily life,

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Speaker 1: it can just create confusion, right, it can cause it

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Speaker 1: can also lead to like misinformation. You're saying that someone

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Speaker 1: did something and you're like, that actually isn't what or

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Speaker 1: how you would describe what happened, right, Like one thing happened,

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Speaker 1: but what you're saying happened didn't. Because we're misusing words.

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Speaker 1: So I think it is important for us to understand,

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Speaker 1: like what is this word actually mean and ensure that

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Speaker 1: we're using it correctly so that when we communicate our feelings,

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Speaker 1: when we communicate our experiences, we can do so in

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Speaker 1: a way that can allow us to get support but

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Speaker 1: also understanding from who we're communicating with exactly.

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Speaker 2: And that is what researchers would call operationalizing the definition

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Speaker 2: come on. So when oftentimes when conducting research and writing

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Speaker 2: research papers, you they're the key words that you use,

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Speaker 2: you have to start off by defining them so that

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Speaker 2: the reader knows what this word means in the context

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Speaker 2: of this research.

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Speaker 1: I love that and it's.

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Speaker 2: So important, like you said, so that you really understand

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Speaker 2: and we can all be on the same page around

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Speaker 2: what we're talking about.

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Speaker 1: There we go, I.

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Speaker 2: Am good for saying and I need to clarify. And

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Speaker 2: I have told people, I'm like, we need to operationalize

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Speaker 2: this definition, Like what what does that mean to you?

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Speaker 2: Like that?

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Speaker 1: I don't use that, I haven't used that term in

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Speaker 1: that context, but I like that. I'm gonna start saying

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Speaker 1: I'm going to operationalize, Okay, to make sure you understand,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to clarify.

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Speaker 2: Okay, period.

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Speaker 1: Yes, So should we give them a little preview of

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Speaker 1: what these words are, because lady, you've probably heard these

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Speaker 1: words before. But make sure you stay until the end

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Speaker 1: so you can ensure that we're all on the same

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Speaker 1: page and we're using them correctly. Okay. And the good

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Speaker 1: thing is too, we have episodes for just about all

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Speaker 1: of these words, So there's a deeper diet that you

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Speaker 1: can take if you want to go down the rabbit

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Speaker 1: hole and explore these words further. So the first one,

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Speaker 1: don this is when we see on social media all

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Speaker 1: the time and this is gaslighting.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, all right, we're going to I was ready

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Speaker 2: to go in, but I know we're just reviewing the words,

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Speaker 2: so I'm going to hold back. Go ahead, go ahead.

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Speaker 3: We have.

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Speaker 1: Number two is trauma slash traumatized. Number three is triggered,

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Speaker 1: Number four is narcissist, number five is toxic, and number

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Speaker 1: six boundaries.

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Speaker 2: Ooh okay, mm hmm. Those are hot button words.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they are so.

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Speaker 2: Before we really dive into them. See when you hear

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Speaker 2: those words, right, yeah, what what comes up for you

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Speaker 2: when you think about how we're using these words?

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Speaker 1: Well, I would say one, I've definitely misused most of

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Speaker 1: them at some point in life, for sure. I know.

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Speaker 1: We just did an episode recently. I think we did

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Speaker 1: a little bit of episode based on when this comes

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Speaker 1: out all my way when we do that. We did

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Speaker 1: our trauma episode before.

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Speaker 2: That, Yes, we did.

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Speaker 1: We talked about trauma bonds y'all in the previous episode,

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Speaker 1: and I learned that I was definitely using trauma bond

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Speaker 1: in the wrong way. And now that I understand it,

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Speaker 1: it just makes me feel more equipped to really speak

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Speaker 1: to the experiences that I'm having, but also what someone

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Speaker 1: else is experiencing. Right to be able to share that

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Speaker 1: language and operationalize that language for other people they may

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Speaker 1: not know. And so it also makes me think about

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Speaker 1: just general situations in life when we may either try

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Speaker 1: to explain something to someone and they don't understand it,

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Speaker 1: or where we explain something to someone and we may

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Speaker 1: not understand ourselves, right. And so the example I'm thinking

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Speaker 1: of is my daughter, who's three, baby Z as we

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Speaker 1: call her on the podcast. She was hanging out with

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Speaker 1: We were having family time at home and she was

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Speaker 1: hanging out with her grandmother. My mother in law came

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Speaker 1: to visit, and my daughter was trying to tell my

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Speaker 1: mother in law about a show she wanted to watch,

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Speaker 1: and she's like, I want to watch Bebefin. And if

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Speaker 1: you don't have children or kids, you may not know

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Speaker 1: what bebefit is. If you do, you already know. So

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Speaker 1: my mother in law did not know what no Babyfit

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Speaker 1: was because I just learned that my damn self. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So she was just trying to explain to her. She

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Speaker 1: was like, okay, so you want to watch she said,

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Speaker 1: Bathtub Friends, and so she my daughter kept saying, and

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Speaker 1: as my daughter continued to say baby Fan, she was

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Speaker 1: getting really frustrated, and so my mother was okay, and

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Speaker 1: so she was like, bad's up, friends, and so my

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Speaker 1: daughter was just like she had this look on her face,

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Speaker 1: and we kind of joked around. After my daughter left,

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Speaker 1: she said she my daughter had this loop on face

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Speaker 1: and she was like bitch, was like, what, Like, that

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Speaker 1: is not what I was talking about. So she stormed

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Speaker 1: in her room and she was just very visibly frustrated,

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Speaker 1: and we laughed at it later. But it makes me

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Speaker 1: think about this scenario where you're using a word, you're

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Speaker 1: trying to explain to someone what your experience is, but

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Speaker 1: maybe they don't know the definition, they don't know the context,

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Speaker 1: they don't understand what you're saying, and it can be

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Speaker 1: really frustrating for someone to not understand. So I think

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Speaker 1: that's another reason of why it's important for us to

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Speaker 1: ensure that not only do we know the word, but

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Speaker 1: we know how to use it in the right context.

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Speaker 1: We know what it means and what it does not mean,

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Speaker 1: so that we can again explain our experience and also

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Speaker 1: educate those around us when we are trying to explain

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Speaker 1: to them what we want or what we experienced, whether

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Speaker 1: it's a baby fan or you know, explaining how you

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Speaker 1: had a trauma bond you were in like a trauma

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Speaker 1: bond connection and looking for tools to get out. So

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Speaker 1: that's what it makes me think about. Yes, hey, lady,

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Speaker 1: it's Terry here, Dom and I want to take a

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Speaker 1: moment to thank you for choosing to listen to our podcast.

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Speaker 1: We love you for real, and we want to give

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Speaker 1: you a chance to learn more about what's important to us.

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Speaker 1: So tell us what you think about this.

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Speaker 3: Imagine a world where you have a chance to get

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Speaker 3: featured on the Cultivating her Space podcast and share your

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Speaker 3: business brand or perspective with millions around the globe. Imagine

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Speaker 3: joining our monthly virtual video check ins where you can

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Speaker 1: can click that link that says Patreon. All right, lady,

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Speaker 1: We'll hop right back into the conversation.

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Speaker 2: I like that. I love that example because it happens

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Speaker 2: to all of us all the time of using words

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Speaker 2: that or saying something that we assume the other person

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Speaker 2: knows what it means, because this is how everybody else

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Speaker 2: is using it, and that's that's not it. That's not it.

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Speaker 2: So let's dive in our first word, gas lighting. All right,

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Speaker 2: So lady, if we're not going to do a deep

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Speaker 2: dive on these words, because we have content to help you.

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Speaker 2: So for gas lighting, you can check out season seventeen,

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Speaker 2: episode three, where we talk about what gaslighting, red flags

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Speaker 2: and manipulations sound like. We also have season seventeen episode four,

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Speaker 2: how to Stand your Ground and Hold gas Lighters Accountable,

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Speaker 2: And in both of those episodes we really spell out

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Speaker 2: for you, like we do a deep dive into what

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Speaker 2: gaslighting is, who gas what gas lighters look like? Right, So,

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Speaker 2: just to be clear, the definition of gas lighting is

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Speaker 2: when someone manipulates you to the point of you questioning

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Speaker 2: your sanity. I'm gonna say that one more time. Gas

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Speaker 2: Lighting is when someone is manipulating you to the point

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Speaker 2: of you questioning your sanity.

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Speaker 1: We do now play don go ahead, I just feel

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Speaker 1: like putting on my I feel like showing up right

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Speaker 1: acting skills. Okay, if you're down for that. Okay, So

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Speaker 1: are you okay being the gas lighter?

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Speaker 2: Yes?

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Speaker 1: Okay. Now, I remember when you came to visit me

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Speaker 1: and we had that really dope moment in the living

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Speaker 1: room where we were dancing to music and just had

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Speaker 1: a really good time, like loving on ourselves and each

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Speaker 1: other at the same time when we were recording.

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Speaker 2: You remember that, I think you might have me confused

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Speaker 2: with somebody else, because I mean, I don't know who

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Speaker 2: else you be having in your space, but that wasn't me,

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Speaker 2: bir stop playing. We did that together. You and I

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Speaker 2: have never turned on no music and been dancing like that.

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Speaker 2: That don't We have never done that. I don't know

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Speaker 2: what you're talking about, Like, I don't know who you've

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Speaker 2: had in your space, but it wasn't me.

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Speaker 1: Damn that. I feel like that just gave me flashbacks

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Speaker 1: down when someone that is it's gas sighting is so mean,

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Speaker 1: because that really does make you question your reality. It

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Speaker 1: literally it makes you question reality, question yourself. Yes, it

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Speaker 1: makes you and I know we're trying to shy away

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Speaker 1: from this word, y'all, but please forget me. It makes

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Speaker 1: you feel see makes you feel like you're going like

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Speaker 1: you need some help, like something's going on in your mind.

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Speaker 2: Yea.

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Speaker 1: And I'm sure you've been there before, you've experienced gaslighting, Yes,

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Speaker 1: I had as well, So that was an example of it.

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Speaker 1: Can we dig into I know we're not going to

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Speaker 1: do a deep die, but like just talk more about

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Speaker 1: how it makes someone feel and kind of just like

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Speaker 1: diving a bit, a little bit more on gaslighting.

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Speaker 2: When you are experiencing gas lighting, you truly are questioning

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Speaker 2: things that you know to be true that have happened.

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Speaker 2: The person leaves you feeling like, is something truly wrong

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Speaker 2: with me? Because I know this happened, but they're telling

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Speaker 2: me that it did. And it makes you start to

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Speaker 2: question everything around you. Yeah, it makes you feel paranoid.

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Speaker 2: It makes you really wonder who you can.

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Speaker 1: Trust and insecure because it's like I don't trust myself

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Speaker 1: to like make decisions. You know, I remember being in

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Speaker 1: a position with that. I do on really trust myself

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Speaker 1: to make decisions because when I think about gas slighting down,

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Speaker 1: I think about those relationships. I think about certain instances

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Speaker 1: where it's like it's bad in general, but certain instances

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Speaker 1: where like you're with an intimate partner. I hear it

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Speaker 1: a lot when people are cheating. So and I'm using

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Speaker 1: heterosexual relationships, y'all, but I know it can happen in

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Speaker 1: any type of relationship. But I'm thinking about situations where

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Speaker 1: a girlfriend is like, go out and call him cheating,

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Speaker 1: and then you go and you know, she it confronts

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Speaker 1: him about it, and he's like, what are you talking

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Speaker 1: about and tries to like put it on her. First

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Speaker 1: of all, I wasn't with that, for like, you didn't

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Speaker 1: see me do that. That's not what my message said.

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Speaker 1: If you know, if you go send him screenshots whatever,

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Speaker 1: that's not what I didn't do that, or it didn't

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Speaker 1: happen someone else did that. What else could they say

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Speaker 1: to make you a question reality. I think about dom

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Speaker 1: situations where you may have done something like maybe you

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Speaker 1: left the keys by the door so you wouldn't forget

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Speaker 1: them on the key ring, But then maybe your partners

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Speaker 1: like you didn't leave the keys there, I put them there,

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Speaker 1: Like just little things like that, And I feel like

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Speaker 1: a lot of times it happens in these little instances

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Speaker 1: that builds up a bigger case to really make you

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Speaker 1: doubt yourself so that you can then depend on them

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Speaker 1: as your mind. Honestly, that's what it kind of gets.

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Speaker 2: Is yes, exactly, that is exactly what it's intended to do.

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Speaker 2: It's a manipulation tactic in extremely abusive relationships.

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Speaker 1: So do we want to talk about examples of it

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Speaker 1: being misused as well as we talk about gaslightings? Yes,

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Speaker 1: because I know one of the examples is someone saying, oh,

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Speaker 1: someone lied to me, so they're gaslighting. Although when you

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Speaker 1: gaslight someone, you could be lying to them, right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, But here's the difference. Here's the difference when somebody

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Speaker 2: is misusing the term gaslighting oftentimes, Like what they're saying is, oh,

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Speaker 2: so and so lie to me. So and they don't

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Speaker 2: even use the word lie. They say so and so

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Speaker 2: is gaslighting me. Well, if they if all they did

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Speaker 2: was lie to you, Lying is not cool. Lying is

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Speaker 2: unhealthy and in certain situations, most situations in a prol

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Speaker 2: read but that's not them gaslighting you. People also will

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Speaker 2: use gas lighting when somebody isn't taking responsibility for something

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Speaker 2: that they did. Right, So, Terry, you tell me Dom

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Speaker 2: you didn't record that ad that you needed that I

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Speaker 2: asked you to record last week and I'm like, you

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Speaker 2: didn't tell me to record that or what? What? Ad?

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Speaker 1: Okay, what ad?

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Speaker 2: Now? The difference between that and true gas lighting, because

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Speaker 2: I know that that can sound confusing, right, Yes, the

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Speaker 2: difference is that it's me not taking accountability, right, and

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Speaker 2: I'm not telling you that for the sake of trying

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Speaker 2: to cast doubt in your mind or make you feel insecure.

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Speaker 2: I just messed up, and I don't want to take accountability.

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Speaker 2: So I'm like, yeah, oh what what ad? Girl? What happened?

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Speaker 2: That's me not taking accountability. That's not me gaslighting you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Now, question for the example we did in the beginning,

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Speaker 1: when I was like, now't you remember when you came

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Speaker 1: to my place and we had that like little dance party?

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Speaker 1: You were like, no, that didn't happen. I didn't, like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know who you be having in your house.

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Speaker 1: I feel like that sound funny saying I feel like

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Speaker 1: that was Lye too right, that that was line and

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Speaker 1: it was also gasfighting, because.

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Speaker 2: Yes, because of the intent, the intent truly was to

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Speaker 2: make you question yourself. So if so in this example

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Speaker 2: of me not taking accountability for recording the ad from

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Speaker 2: last week, if you followed that up and you said, well, no,

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Speaker 2: here's the and like you pointed out to me. And

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Speaker 2: then I'm like, well, ship my bad like and even

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Speaker 2: not even ship my bad like you follow up and

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Speaker 2: I acknowledge that it is true. Then that is I'm

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Speaker 2: not gaslighting you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I'm.

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Speaker 2: Not taking accountability exactly. I might have messed up, but

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Speaker 2: that's not me gaslighting you.

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Speaker 1: And there are situations where people genuinely forget something right,

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Speaker 1: Like some people genuinely forget and it's like, bro, if

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Speaker 1: you saying that I was at house dancing, okay, but

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Speaker 1: like I really don't remember, that's like a different, a

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Speaker 1: whole different different scenario. I'm thinking down about the I

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Speaker 1: know we're going to dig into what what they really

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Speaker 1: mean as an example and then give you, lady some

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Speaker 1: words to use instead for gas lighting. But I do

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Speaker 1: want to emphasize the importance of nipping this in the

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Speaker 1: butt when you realize it with other people, because now

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Speaker 1: that I think we probably started recording about gas like

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Speaker 1: maybe a couple of years ago, and I think prior

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Speaker 1: to that, it was probably a word that you heard

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00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:50,600
Speaker 1: about a lot in your feel down, but it was

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00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:53,320
Speaker 1: it was it was, it was like obscure and new

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Speaker 1: to people who are not in mental health mental health right,

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Speaker 1: and so it was it was a new word for me,

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Speaker 1: I would say in the past four or five years,

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Speaker 1: and when I began to understand what it means, and

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Speaker 1: we've done episodes about it. Now, when I see people

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Speaker 1: do that in real life, even though they're like, oh,

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00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:11,119
Speaker 1: I'm just joking, I say, now, stop your gaslighting me,

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Speaker 1: because you're making me question my reality. So a couple

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Speaker 1: examples around that include I remember years ago and in

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Speaker 1: a relationship where someone would really try to make me

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Speaker 1: always question my memory and the lady. The reason I'm

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Speaker 1: saying you need to knip this in the butt is

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Speaker 1: because what happens is if you think about those micro

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Speaker 1: interactions of someone constantly telling you your memory is so

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Speaker 1: bad you don't remember anything. Now they're trying to get

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Speaker 1: over on you and they do little shit and then

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Speaker 1: they're like, yeah, oh, I've planted the seed in her

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Speaker 1: that her memory is bad, So now I'll do it.

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Speaker 1: I'll pull this bullshit and I'll just chalk it up

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Speaker 1: to her not having a good memory. And So the

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Speaker 1: reason I say that's important to nip it in the

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Speaker 1: butt is because I remember in that relationship getting into

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Speaker 1: a place where I begin to claim, like, oh, my

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Speaker 1: memory is so bad. I just kind of default to

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Speaker 1: not tru someone my memory so bad. And I've reprogrammed

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Speaker 1: myself and how to do the work to like, you know,

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00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:03,000
Speaker 1: create a new narrative for myself because I began to

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Speaker 1: adopt that because that's what the person was like constantly

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Speaker 1: inflicting on to me.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's important, Yeah, yes, it's definitely important. And

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Speaker 2: I think the thing is is that if if that

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Speaker 2: is not the experience that you're having, then you're not

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Speaker 2: being gas lit, right. Someone might lie to you, and

435
00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:31,120
Speaker 2: so we're just gonna call it what it is. They

436
00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:36,360
Speaker 2: lied to me, Okay, they told me that they were

437
00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:39,920
Speaker 2: going to be at my house at seven o'clock and

438
00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:44,000
Speaker 2: they didn't show up till nine thirty. They lied. They

439
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:46,359
Speaker 2: didn't gas like me on what time they were showing up.

440
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:56,760
Speaker 2: They just lied. They didn't take accountability, or maybe they

441
00:25:56,800 --> 00:26:03,600
Speaker 2: tried to manipulate the situation. But again, the key is

442
00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:07,200
Speaker 2: that someone who is truly gaslighting you, it is way

443
00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:08,639
Speaker 2: more sinister.

444
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:12,040
Speaker 1: And tom It's usually not a one time experience. Usually

445
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:14,520
Speaker 1: a gaslighter is like they're building a case. It's not

446
00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:17,280
Speaker 1: like a one time thing. It's like, wait, I'm noticing

447
00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:19,239
Speaker 1: ladies start to write stuff down. That's what I used

448
00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:21,119
Speaker 1: to do when I was in toxic relationships. I got

449
00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:22,880
Speaker 1: to a place where I really did begin to question

450
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:24,879
Speaker 1: my reality, so I had to write shit down so

451
00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:26,520
Speaker 1: I will remember and I could go back to it, like, wait,

452
00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:29,080
Speaker 1: this paper didn't write this like this paper, this is

453
00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:31,399
Speaker 1: a written note with the time and the day on

454
00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:34,200
Speaker 1: what happened. Or tell your friend or create a voice note.

455
00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:37,399
Speaker 1: Start to document. If you have a suspicion that you're

456
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:40,760
Speaker 1: being ghastly, often start to write down the pattern so

457
00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:42,600
Speaker 1: that you can really track it. Because I feel like

458
00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:45,359
Speaker 1: that was so helpful for me and leaving a toxic

459
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:48,280
Speaker 1: relationship before when I stopped trusting myself. But when I

460
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:49,880
Speaker 1: began to look at the track record and I said,

461
00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:52,199
Speaker 1: oh wait, on this day, they tried to get me

462
00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:54,800
Speaker 1: to question my reality on this day, you know what

463
00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:57,439
Speaker 1: I mean. So I think you also brought up a

464
00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:00,440
Speaker 1: good point dom you emphasis, you shared the example and

465
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:02,920
Speaker 1: the meaning, but also like words that we can use

466
00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:07,040
Speaker 1: instead when yes, when it's not gaslighting or like manipulating

467
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:09,680
Speaker 1: and lying, if you realize that, based on the definition

468
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:12,800
Speaker 1: of gaslighting, that's not your experience. You may want to

469
00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:16,680
Speaker 1: lean into manipulating and lying because that may be more

470
00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:18,040
Speaker 1: of what's happening, right.

471
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:23,400
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, I think that's important to definitely point out

472
00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:26,200
Speaker 2: is the dead Oh go ahead.

473
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:28,000
Speaker 1: I was Did we already share the two episodes?

474
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:33,640
Speaker 2: Yes, we did that. Cool, we did. Forgot You're good

475
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:36,640
Speaker 2: and so I think so one of the things that

476
00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:41,119
Speaker 2: you brought up was about the gas lighting that you

477
00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:46,920
Speaker 2: were experiencing in a toxic relationship, right, and so I'm

478
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:51,320
Speaker 2: jumping out of order and so, but because you brought

479
00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:55,640
Speaker 2: you use the word toxic relationship, I want us to

480
00:27:55,720 --> 00:28:00,320
Speaker 2: talk about how we use that word toxic, right, that

481
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:09,480
Speaker 2: oftentimes we're using toxic to talk about a partner who

482
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:13,720
Speaker 2: isn't a good match. Okay, that's how it's misused. So

483
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:20,520
Speaker 2: somebody's not a good match for you were talking, We're like, oh,

484
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:26,240
Speaker 2: that person is toxic. No, there's a difference between someone

485
00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:33,639
Speaker 2: who's toxic and someone who is simply not a good match. Okay.

486
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:38,360
Speaker 2: So the episodes where we talk about this season one,

487
00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:41,560
Speaker 2: and we have like three episodes where we specifically talk

488
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:44,880
Speaker 2: about it. Season one episode four, the best way is

489
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:52,120
Speaker 2: to heal after leaving a toxic relationship. Season five, episode ten,

490
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:58,200
Speaker 2: signs that You're the toxic one in the relationship and

491
00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:02,920
Speaker 2: season eleven, episode one one getting back to dating after

492
00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:08,960
Speaker 2: a toxic relationship. And so, you know, the thing that

493
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:14,320
Speaker 2: I want to point out is that when we appropriately

494
00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:20,640
Speaker 2: use the word toxic, what we're meaning is that something

495
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:30,240
Speaker 2: or someone is intentionally causing harm. Okay, I'm gonna say

496
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:39,040
Speaker 2: that again, something or someone is intentionally causing harm. So, Terry,

497
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:41,920
Speaker 2: the example that you gave of being in a relationship

498
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:48,280
Speaker 2: where you were experiencing gas lighting, Yeah, that was a

499
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:56,239
Speaker 2: toxic relationship because that person was intentionally inflicting harm on you.

500
00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:07,760
Speaker 2: But you go out on a couple of dates, the

501
00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:14,680
Speaker 2: guy doesn't show up on time, he talks about the

502
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:20,920
Speaker 2: weight staff, he doesn't have a good relationship with his family.

503
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:25,600
Speaker 2: All right. That sounds like red flags or yellow flags

504
00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:29,520
Speaker 2: to me. That does not necessarily mean that he is toxic.

505
00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:32,520
Speaker 1: Maybe some negativity, but not the toxicity.

506
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:35,280
Speaker 2: Okay, maybe he needs to go, Maybe he needs to

507
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:37,280
Speaker 2: go sit on a therapist couch and work through whatever

508
00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:40,160
Speaker 2: he might be dealing with. But that does not make

509
00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:41,480
Speaker 2: him toxic.

510
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:46,000
Speaker 1: Interesting, and.

511
00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:51,160
Speaker 2: Just because that relationship did not work out does not

512
00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:54,120
Speaker 2: mean that that person is toxic. And here's why I

513
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:59,560
Speaker 2: think it's important to be clear about the terms that

514
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:02,440
Speaker 2: we use to describe people and our experiences with them,

515
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:09,440
Speaker 2: because think about how big social media is. You have

516
00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:15,240
Speaker 2: a date with this person and you go to TikTok.

517
00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:18,680
Speaker 2: Oh lord, because we've seen it.

518
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:19,800
Speaker 1: We've seen it before.

519
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:25,880
Speaker 2: Okay, you go to TikTok and you share your story

520
00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:30,800
Speaker 2: of what happened to you. You share a picture of

521
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:39,719
Speaker 2: this guy or a video. The internet streets are the

522
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:44,000
Speaker 2: best private detectives I've ever private investigators ever, and they

523
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:49,160
Speaker 2: find him right. And now this man is being harassed

524
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:54,840
Speaker 2: at his job because you called him toxic when the

525
00:31:54,880 --> 00:32:01,960
Speaker 2: reality is that be a negative person, but he did

526
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:08,200
Speaker 2: not do anything to intentionally inflict harm on you. And

527
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:11,560
Speaker 2: now because you've put it out for the people and

528
00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:19,040
Speaker 2: labeled him toxic, the streets is coming for him in

529
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:22,960
Speaker 2: real life. Or and that's the call for.

530
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:26,960
Speaker 1: That part down I was gonna say, or a people

531
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:30,720
Speaker 1: coming for the person who posted because they're like, I've

532
00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:33,120
Speaker 1: seen that happen to where someone posts something on TikTok

533
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:35,120
Speaker 1: and they're like, oh, I'm about to get people hype

534
00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:37,480
Speaker 1: they're gonna be on my side, and then people start

535
00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:40,520
Speaker 1: coming for them, and now you are the butt of

536
00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:42,720
Speaker 1: all the memes cause it's like you don't know what

537
00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:44,160
Speaker 1: she talked about, Like she don't know what she talked about.

538
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:46,480
Speaker 1: She talked about toxic. It's not even then you have

539
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:48,480
Speaker 1: this whole just a lot of drama, nonsense. You don't

540
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:52,120
Speaker 1: want now that I years ago had a friend who

541
00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:55,080
Speaker 1: shared a perspective about toxicity, and I want to share

542
00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:56,600
Speaker 1: it with you to see what your thoughts are on it.

543
00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:01,800
Speaker 1: And I feel like I vacillate between these to opinions. Okay,

544
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:04,840
Speaker 1: so the thought is, or the statement was, there are

545
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:10,240
Speaker 1: no toxic people. There are toxic behaviors and toxic traits.

546
00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:16,239
Speaker 1: And I was like, huh, interesting, Although I could think

547
00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:18,360
Speaker 1: about it, there are like a good maybe three to

548
00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:21,320
Speaker 1: five people I could think of as toxic. But I

549
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:23,120
Speaker 1: kind of feel what they're saying, like if I feel

550
00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:26,640
Speaker 1: like if my higher self was asked that question or like,

551
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:28,960
Speaker 1: you know that that statement opposed to my higher self,

552
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:31,800
Speaker 1: like we're all God's children, like you know, everyone is

553
00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:37,000
Speaker 1: deserving right there, right there with you, so kind in

554
00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:37,560
Speaker 1: the same.

555
00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:45,160
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, I think you know, my higher heeled self

556
00:33:45,200 --> 00:34:00,680
Speaker 2: would say, even everybody has redeemable qualities, if everybody is

557
00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:10,479
Speaker 2: worthy of love. Now, there are lots of people who

558
00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:18,600
Speaker 2: who do engage in toxic behaviors, right, and again repeating

559
00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:26,359
Speaker 2: that definition, there are lots of people who intentionally it

560
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:30,080
Speaker 2: inflict harm on others.

561
00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:37,480
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, And you know, while we're talking about toxicity now,

562
00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:40,600
Speaker 1: we're going to dive into our next word in the

563
00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:44,200
Speaker 1: moment here once we cover words to use instead of toxic.

564
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:44,400
Speaker 2: Right.

565
00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:45,560
Speaker 1: But one of the things I want to say as

566
00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:48,520
Speaker 1: well as while we're talking about this, lady, it's important

567
00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:50,400
Speaker 1: to know and this is something it took a long

568
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:54,400
Speaker 1: time for me to sit with and realize because I

569
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:57,080
Speaker 1: am a forever optimist. Okay, so get ready for this,

570
00:34:57,560 --> 00:34:59,839
Speaker 1: get your opening your paper, get your notebook out for this,

571
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:05,080
Speaker 1: and okay, you ready down, I'm ready. Some people are

572
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:09,560
Speaker 1: too motherfucking far gone. Some people will not be changing

573
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:13,239
Speaker 1: in this lifetime. And it took me forever to realize that,

574
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:16,799
Speaker 1: and it kept me in a cycle of wanting to save. Yeah,

575
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:20,200
Speaker 1: I'm like in a little customer today, I want saved motherfuckers.

576
00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:22,680
Speaker 1: But no, it caused me to want to save people

577
00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:27,440
Speaker 1: and go back into trauma bonds. Because I was hopeful,

578
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:31,000
Speaker 1: because I'm an optimist, because I've been able to transform

579
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:33,480
Speaker 1: my life, I thought these people would as well. But

580
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:35,920
Speaker 1: I've had to go no contact with them because they

581
00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:38,320
Speaker 1: are too far gone and they don't have any signs

582
00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:44,360
Speaker 1: or symptoms or nothing that's shown me that they're trying

583
00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:48,200
Speaker 1: to change and want to change. So as we talk about,

584
00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:50,960
Speaker 1: you know, going back and forth into trauma bonds, I

585
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:54,080
Speaker 1: think it'd be a great transition to trauma after we

586
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:57,400
Speaker 1: talk about these two words that you can use, lady,

587
00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:00,799
Speaker 1: instead of toxic, if you realize that the definition this

588
00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:05,759
Speaker 1: isn't toxic. Maybe it's unhealthy, maybe it's difficult, Maybe it's

589
00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:08,040
Speaker 1: just not a good fit for you, right, Maybe the

590
00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:09,960
Speaker 1: person is too far gone and you got to move on.

591
00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:14,680
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, but they're not. But they're not toxic. And

592
00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:21,400
Speaker 2: maybe that really maybe that relationship was unhealthy, Maybe that

593
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:28,399
Speaker 2: relationship wasn't aligned mm hmm. But that does not mean

594
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:33,759
Speaker 2: like if that relationship, if the that relationship did not

595
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:38,400
Speaker 2: inflict harm, like intentionally inflict harm. Let me be clear,

596
00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:43,520
Speaker 2: intentionally inflict harm. Because relationship endings, there may be some

597
00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:49,080
Speaker 2: harm that you experience. But the totality of that relationship

598
00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:54,040
Speaker 2: wasn't toxic. That person wasn't a good fit for Their

599
00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:56,920
Speaker 2: behaviors were misaligned with you.

600
00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:00,840
Speaker 1: And just because it's not toxic doesn't mean that you

601
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:03,719
Speaker 1: have to stay right like it may exactly because some

602
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:05,840
Speaker 1: people think, oh, well, it's not that bad. It's not toxic,

603
00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:09,720
Speaker 1: he's not abusing me, like okay, but are you happy? Okay?

604
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:11,719
Speaker 1: But is it aligned with where you want to be

605
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:13,600
Speaker 1: and who do you want to become? So the answer

606
00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:16,520
Speaker 1: is no, then it might be time to move on. Yes,

607
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:19,279
Speaker 1: And I promise this is a real transition. Speaking of

608
00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:21,240
Speaker 1: moving on, yes, what are you going to talk about

609
00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:23,239
Speaker 1: trauma and traumatized?

610
00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:28,960
Speaker 2: Yes? All right, So we have multiple episodes, our most

611
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:34,440
Speaker 2: recent episode on trauma bonding Season twenty three, episode one,

612
00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:40,360
Speaker 2: Trauma Bonding, Protecting Yourself from Unhealthy Relationships, Season three, episode twelve,

613
00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:46,080
Speaker 2: Healing intergenerational Trauma with doctor Tam O'Brien Davis, and then

614
00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:51,040
Speaker 2: season eight, episode one, Healing from racial Trauma and Tapping

615
00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:56,160
Speaker 2: into Sensuality with doctor Candice Nicole. And so in those episodes,

616
00:37:56,239 --> 00:37:59,719
Speaker 2: we do define trauma and we talk about it from

617
00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:02,960
Speaker 2: that in a generational lens what that looks like. We

618
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:06,520
Speaker 2: talk about racial trauma. That episode was recorded during the

619
00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:11,560
Speaker 2: racial reckoning of twenty twenty, and then most recently we

620
00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:14,719
Speaker 2: talk about trauma bonding, and we ind that episode we

621
00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:19,439
Speaker 2: do talk about how trauma the word trauma bonding is misused,

622
00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:22,400
Speaker 2: so we won't go into that definition here. You can

623
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:31,080
Speaker 2: check that episode out. But understanding what trauma or traumatized

624
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:38,080
Speaker 2: is is a trauma is what happens to your body.

625
00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:46,279
Speaker 2: It's how your nervous system is responding to stimuli. I'm

626
00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:54,279
Speaker 2: gonna say that again. Trauma or being traumatized is is

627
00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:59,439
Speaker 2: what happens to your body, within your body, how your

628
00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:10,319
Speaker 2: nervous system reacts to particular stimuli. How we tend to

629
00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:19,399
Speaker 2: use trauma or traumatize is when we experience something embarrassing.

630
00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:30,200
Speaker 2: Maybe we experience something potentially hurtful, but it's not necessarily trauma.

631
00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:44,880
Speaker 2: So an example, I'm walking down the street and I

632
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:51,920
Speaker 2: trip over my feet and everybody around me sees it,

633
00:39:54,800 --> 00:40:11,920
Speaker 2: and everybody goes, oh, Okay, that's embarrassing, Hella embarrassing for

634
00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:13,640
Speaker 2: me personally, I have a fear of following, So yeah,

635
00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:15,080
Speaker 2: that would be hella embarrassing.

636
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:15,560
Speaker 1: Yeah.

637
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:24,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, However, if my body did not, like if my

638
00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:29,760
Speaker 2: nervous system does not go into fight flight or freeze,

639
00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:38,240
Speaker 2: I'm not that wasn't a trauma. I was not traumatized.

640
00:40:40,719 --> 00:40:47,200
Speaker 2: Was I embarrassed? Most definitely? Most definitely.

641
00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:52,080
Speaker 1: These are so tricky down I was gonna know because

642
00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:54,560
Speaker 1: I feel like that's a situation where I can see

643
00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:57,000
Speaker 1: myself or other people being like, girl, I was traumatized

644
00:40:57,440 --> 00:40:59,920
Speaker 1: because we say it in this sort of it's like

645
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:05,000
Speaker 1: it's conversational, watered down sort of version of it, but

646
00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:07,719
Speaker 1: it's not necessarily that. But then I also want to

647
00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:09,680
Speaker 1: go back to something you said on the previous episode,

648
00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:12,840
Speaker 1: like on season twenty three, episode one. This just was

649
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:16,520
Speaker 1: such a word and like mind blowing for me. But

650
00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:18,680
Speaker 1: when you said, you know what is trauma, it's not

651
00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:22,160
Speaker 1: the event, it's what happens to the body. And the

652
00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:24,680
Speaker 1: absence of an empathetic witness, that was the part. I

653
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:26,920
Speaker 1: was like, oh my gosh, and it'll stay in our

654
00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:30,400
Speaker 1: system right until it gets seen. And I was just like, okay,

655
00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:35,719
Speaker 1: so it's really okay. I feel like I'm digging too deep,

656
00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:37,840
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say. So, it's really a personal experience like

657
00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:41,080
Speaker 1: it's it's interesting, it's like it's your experience. So then

658
00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:43,240
Speaker 1: it makes me feel like it's challenging to tell someone,

659
00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:47,640
Speaker 1: excuse me, to tell someone that what you experience isn't

660
00:41:47,719 --> 00:41:51,279
Speaker 1: trauma and you weren't traumatized, right, But then I also

661
00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:53,520
Speaker 1: patient the fact that you said, does your body go

662
00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:56,359
Speaker 1: into fight flight or freeze? Because if I'm embarrassed, the

663
00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:59,440
Speaker 1: way my body warms up, and I be like, you

664
00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:01,360
Speaker 1: know how that I feel, y'all when you get embarrassed,

665
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:04,400
Speaker 1: especially when it's like in public. Eye used to get

666
00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:07,160
Speaker 1: embarrassed very easily, and I would just like it felt

667
00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:09,520
Speaker 1: like boat lava from head to tail, like my body

668
00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:11,960
Speaker 1: was heated, and I was like, oh my god, I

669
00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:15,600
Speaker 1: could just like pass out right now. And I feel

670
00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:17,919
Speaker 1: like I'm tempted to say that's traumatizing.

671
00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:20,640
Speaker 2: You feel me? And so yes, and I get that.

672
00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:28,799
Speaker 2: So here's the thing. Yeah, if you find that you

673
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:37,560
Speaker 2: might be later on like a month, two months down

674
00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:42,720
Speaker 2: the line, six months, a year, ten years, twenty years

675
00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:49,280
Speaker 2: down the line, you were having flashbacks of that moment.

676
00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:57,160
Speaker 2: And when you have flashbacks, your body has a reaction. Right,

677
00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:12,239
Speaker 2: every time you encounter a similar stimuli, your body reacts

678
00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:16,759
Speaker 2: and responds the same way it did the first time

679
00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:23,719
Speaker 2: you experienced it. That's the trauma. That's how you know

680
00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:25,000
Speaker 2: you were traumatized.

681
00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:27,320
Speaker 1: It sounds like it takes some time.

682
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:37,600
Speaker 2: It takes time. It's also a lot deeper. Right. So again,

683
00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:44,759
Speaker 2: me me tripping, even with my fear following, And this

684
00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:48,560
Speaker 2: is how I want to like really distinguish it for folks,

685
00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:57,160
Speaker 2: even with my fear of falling, that particular situation was

686
00:43:57,400 --> 00:44:08,719
Speaker 2: not traumatizing because I tripped, It lasted a couple of seconds,

687
00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:14,200
Speaker 2: people made that noise. My face might have felt flushed

688
00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:18,560
Speaker 2: because I was embarrassed, but I got up and I

689
00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:25,600
Speaker 2: kept walking, and later on that evening, I'm laughing about

690
00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:35,360
Speaker 2: it with my friends. Right months later, I'm walking that

691
00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:41,240
Speaker 2: same sidewalk. I might have a memory of me falling,

692
00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:48,080
Speaker 2: but I laugh about it and I keep going. My

693
00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:52,799
Speaker 2: body is not having a reaction. Okay, So then that

694
00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:58,200
Speaker 2: is not a trauma. Probably high on that list of

695
00:44:58,239 --> 00:45:05,600
Speaker 2: embarrassing moments, not a trauma. Okay. Now let's flip it though.

696
00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:14,640
Speaker 2: Let's say that in that moment when I tripped and

697
00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:27,880
Speaker 2: everybody was like, oh, I felt embarrassed, but then I

698
00:45:28,040 --> 00:45:32,760
Speaker 2: was so embarrassed that I cried m hm and needed

699
00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:36,719
Speaker 2: to immediately leave the situation like the rest of the

700
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:39,600
Speaker 2: wherever we were walking to. Nah, I can't go there.

701
00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:43,160
Speaker 2: I'm not even I don't even want to go there, right,

702
00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:48,640
Speaker 2: and I'm crying, And it's that It's not the it's

703
00:45:48,680 --> 00:45:51,560
Speaker 2: not that I was shedding a few tears. It's the

704
00:45:51,680 --> 00:46:00,759
Speaker 2: my body is heaving, like my body is shaking, and

705
00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:06,120
Speaker 2: no one around me in that moment sought to comfort

706
00:46:06,160 --> 00:46:14,320
Speaker 2: me or check in right, or to say, oh my gosh,

707
00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:23,760
Speaker 2: that is so that was so horrible. And now either

708
00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:31,239
Speaker 2: I avoid that whole I avoid that whole area, or

709
00:46:31,360 --> 00:46:39,839
Speaker 2: anytime I get close to that area, my body reacts

710
00:46:41,640 --> 00:46:46,439
Speaker 2: like I feel fidgety. I might even find myself tearing up.

711
00:46:48,840 --> 00:46:51,759
Speaker 2: If I experienced it in that way and that lasts

712
00:46:52,040 --> 00:47:01,719
Speaker 2: for as long as I live in that area, that

713
00:47:03,239 --> 00:47:05,279
Speaker 2: would then make it a trauma mm hm.

714
00:47:06,120 --> 00:47:10,000
Speaker 1: That makes sense. And so if it does not meet

715
00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:13,480
Speaker 1: the criteria or it does not fit into that bucket, right,

716
00:47:13,560 --> 00:47:15,640
Speaker 1: that trauma bucket I want to call it. Based on

717
00:47:15,840 --> 00:47:21,000
Speaker 1: the definitions, we could use the words upset or embarrassed.

718
00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:25,600
Speaker 1: I'm sure there are a bunch of other horrified horrified, right,

719
00:47:25,760 --> 00:47:27,920
Speaker 1: like a bunch of other words to use, but based

720
00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:32,520
Speaker 1: on the definition, it may not be may not be traumatized, right, yes,

721
00:47:33,160 --> 00:47:35,800
Speaker 1: So that leads it to our next word. It's so

722
00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:38,359
Speaker 1: funny now, So our next word, lady, is triggered. Right,

723
00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:41,640
Speaker 1: And I'm looking through, you know, to see if we

724
00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:43,600
Speaker 1: have an episode where we use the word trigger. I'm

725
00:47:43,640 --> 00:47:45,960
Speaker 1: so surprised we don't at this point with like what

726
00:47:46,080 --> 00:47:47,839
Speaker 1: I was like, Oh.

727
00:47:48,239 --> 00:47:51,120
Speaker 2: Do you think we need to record an episode? I

728
00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:57,279
Speaker 2: knows we've talked about it and provided the definition for

729
00:47:57,440 --> 00:48:03,040
Speaker 2: it in multiple episodes, but an episode specifically about triggers.

730
00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:07,880
Speaker 2: That is fascinating that we have not covered that word

731
00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:09,879
Speaker 2: in an episode by itself yet.

732
00:48:10,520 --> 00:48:14,480
Speaker 1: Right, Okay, So how do people misuse trigger? Because I know,

733
00:48:14,560 --> 00:48:15,560
Speaker 1: I'm sure I do.

734
00:48:17,160 --> 00:48:25,120
Speaker 2: So we use it. So people misuse it all the

735
00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:33,040
Speaker 2: time when they are shocked or offended by something. Right. So,

736
00:48:33,080 --> 00:48:38,520
Speaker 2: someone said something offensive and our response to that is, oh,

737
00:48:38,560 --> 00:48:48,759
Speaker 2: that was triggering? Was it? It might have been offensive,

738
00:48:52,040 --> 00:48:59,279
Speaker 2: it might have elicited a negative reaction from you, but

739
00:48:59,560 --> 00:49:07,880
Speaker 2: was it? Was it a trigger? The difference is about

740
00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:14,719
Speaker 2: the depth of the meaning, right, So a trigger is

741
00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:24,719
Speaker 2: specifically connected to trauma, So going back to the example

742
00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:31,600
Speaker 2: of like me falling and embarrassing myself. Right, So, and

743
00:49:31,680 --> 00:49:34,120
Speaker 2: I use this example, and I will say that I

744
00:49:34,280 --> 00:49:39,719
Speaker 2: have fallen before, and there are like examples that I

745
00:49:39,840 --> 00:49:46,200
Speaker 2: am not traumatized by it, but deeply affected. Okay, And

746
00:49:46,360 --> 00:49:53,640
Speaker 2: so going back to this example, A trigger in that moment,

747
00:49:54,239 --> 00:50:05,000
Speaker 2: like in that particular trauma is stepping to the corner

748
00:50:06,760 --> 00:50:13,479
Speaker 2: of the like the intersection leading to the street. Every

749
00:50:13,480 --> 00:50:17,880
Speaker 2: time I hit that corner, my body reacts. That corner

750
00:50:18,040 --> 00:50:28,600
Speaker 2: is the trigger. Right. A trigger is something that reminds

751
00:50:28,680 --> 00:50:30,400
Speaker 2: you of the trauma.

752
00:50:31,560 --> 00:50:33,680
Speaker 1: Mm hmmm. That could be a lot of different things

753
00:50:33,719 --> 00:50:35,919
Speaker 1: to you, girl, because as you say that, it's makes

754
00:50:35,920 --> 00:50:37,680
Speaker 1: me think about sense, Like, I have a lot of

755
00:50:37,719 --> 00:50:40,759
Speaker 1: scent memories while say something and it'll bring me back

756
00:50:40,760 --> 00:50:42,719
Speaker 1: to a lot of times. It's like something in childhood,

757
00:50:42,719 --> 00:50:45,239
Speaker 1: whether it's a candle or something. And a lot of

758
00:50:45,239 --> 00:50:48,000
Speaker 1: times it's not necessarily a traumatic experience when I have

759
00:50:48,160 --> 00:50:50,880
Speaker 1: the scent when I smell things, but that could be something.

760
00:50:50,960 --> 00:50:56,880
Speaker 2: Right, And so here's the thing, here's the thing. Ideally,

761
00:50:57,520 --> 00:51:00,520
Speaker 2: we don't want to say if it's not connected to

762
00:51:00,560 --> 00:51:04,200
Speaker 2: a traumatic experience. We don't want to say, oh, that

763
00:51:04,320 --> 00:51:07,520
Speaker 2: was a that that smell is a trigger, or that

764
00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:12,799
Speaker 2: smell triggered my memory, because while technically yes it did

765
00:51:12,880 --> 00:51:19,840
Speaker 2: trigger your memory, it is not connected to a traumatic experience.

766
00:51:21,640 --> 00:51:26,040
Speaker 2: And so ideally, then what you want to say is, oh,

767
00:51:26,239 --> 00:51:31,320
Speaker 2: this scent reminds me of whatever the memory is, right,

768
00:51:32,560 --> 00:51:41,680
Speaker 2: or this scent activated whatever it activated, whatever behavioral response

769
00:51:41,719 --> 00:51:48,440
Speaker 2: it activated. Right, We want to use words like activated, reminded,

770
00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:56,719
Speaker 2: because again, triggering is about it is specifically connected to

771
00:51:58,000 --> 00:52:02,200
Speaker 2: a traumatic event. Now here, here's the thing, here's the thing.

772
00:52:03,239 --> 00:52:05,280
Speaker 2: And this is probably why we haven't recorded this episode

773
00:52:05,320 --> 00:52:07,960
Speaker 2: an episode on this yet, because it's it's it is.

774
00:52:08,120 --> 00:52:16,040
Speaker 2: It's still it's controversial, right, giving trigger warnings to content

775
00:52:16,080 --> 00:52:25,600
Speaker 2: about content. So my quick answer, my quick answer is

776
00:52:25,600 --> 00:52:36,400
Speaker 2: that it's overused. We have been intentional about using trigger warnings,

777
00:52:36,960 --> 00:52:40,240
Speaker 2: and in some instances we don't even use the word trigger.

778
00:52:40,800 --> 00:52:45,000
Speaker 2: We might say this is a content warning, right in

779
00:52:45,160 --> 00:52:49,600
Speaker 2: terms of how we've used it on the positive sensitive content, right,

780
00:52:52,440 --> 00:52:56,680
Speaker 2: ideally you were using the word you were saying some

781
00:52:56,920 --> 00:53:03,440
Speaker 2: giving something or trigger warning when you know that it

782
00:53:03,680 --> 00:53:12,720
Speaker 2: will act, it will trigger traumatic responses in people who

783
00:53:12,880 --> 00:53:16,879
Speaker 2: have experienced a particular trauma that you're about to speak about.

784
00:53:18,080 --> 00:53:19,480
Speaker 1: Got yep.

785
00:53:20,760 --> 00:53:29,720
Speaker 2: For me, it is often I struggle with it being

786
00:53:29,800 --> 00:53:34,400
Speaker 2: misused because it's often used to describe any type of

787
00:53:34,440 --> 00:53:43,920
Speaker 2: sensitive content exactly. Yeah, Okay, so we are talking about

788
00:53:49,160 --> 00:53:51,839
Speaker 2: m I'm trying to think of a good example. We

789
00:53:51,880 --> 00:54:00,000
Speaker 2: are talking about setting rules and boundaries, okay, And then

790
00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:05,200
Speaker 2: when someone says, because the rules feel harsh, right, And

791
00:54:05,239 --> 00:54:07,000
Speaker 2: then someone says, well, we should have got a trigger

792
00:54:07,000 --> 00:54:18,319
Speaker 2: warning for these rules. Why you just because something that

793
00:54:18,360 --> 00:54:22,279
Speaker 2: you're gonna experience, just because the content is might be difficult,

794
00:54:25,520 --> 00:54:30,880
Speaker 2: does not mean that it deserves a trigger warning. Trigger

795
00:54:30,960 --> 00:54:35,880
Speaker 2: warnings truly are supposed to be for when the content

796
00:54:36,880 --> 00:54:42,520
Speaker 2: may cause a traumatic response in the person who experienced

797
00:54:42,520 --> 00:54:44,879
Speaker 2: that particular trauma.

798
00:54:44,960 --> 00:54:47,680
Speaker 1: And when you think about it, don it's tough to

799
00:54:47,880 --> 00:54:52,439
Speaker 1: like have a blanket term for everything, because I feel

800
00:54:52,440 --> 00:54:55,399
Speaker 1: like there's gonna be something everyone's gonna have. Anythink about

801
00:54:55,400 --> 00:54:56,799
Speaker 1: all the people in the world, someone's going to have

802
00:54:57,120 --> 00:55:00,320
Speaker 1: some type of trauma connected to an experience that they

803
00:55:00,360 --> 00:55:04,000
Speaker 1: seem like it's not traumatic to us because it wasn't

804
00:55:04,000 --> 00:55:07,319
Speaker 1: connected to our trauma. So I think that when we're

805
00:55:07,320 --> 00:55:08,960
Speaker 1: trying to be politically correct and we just put a

806
00:55:08,960 --> 00:55:12,760
Speaker 1: trigger warning on all sensitive content. It makes it tricky.

807
00:55:12,760 --> 00:55:14,960
Speaker 1: So I totally understand that. When you were speaking, though,

808
00:55:14,960 --> 00:55:16,279
Speaker 1: it made me think about I don't know if you've

809
00:55:16,280 --> 00:55:18,279
Speaker 1: ever seen Made on Netflix.

810
00:55:18,600 --> 00:55:19,400
Speaker 2: I've heard about it.

811
00:55:19,920 --> 00:55:22,920
Speaker 1: Okay, So Made on Netflix was triggering for me because

812
00:55:22,960 --> 00:55:26,360
Speaker 1: based on her experiences and some of the just some

813
00:55:26,400 --> 00:55:28,680
Speaker 1: of the challenges that she had, it brought me back

814
00:55:28,719 --> 00:55:31,440
Speaker 1: to like traumatic experiences in my life. So it was triggering.

815
00:55:31,480 --> 00:55:33,120
Speaker 1: So I was thinking of how can I use to

816
00:55:33,160 --> 00:55:35,279
Speaker 1: work correctly in that context? And that was a show

817
00:55:35,280 --> 00:55:37,759
Speaker 1: that came to mind. So that makes sense. Yeah, it

818
00:55:37,800 --> 00:55:38,719
Speaker 1: makes sense. I get it.

819
00:55:40,280 --> 00:55:48,200
Speaker 2: And so then that takes us to our next word. Oh,

820
00:55:48,360 --> 00:55:49,520
Speaker 2: this is this one.

821
00:55:50,160 --> 00:55:52,160
Speaker 1: This is loaded. It's a loaded one.

822
00:55:55,120 --> 00:55:58,040
Speaker 2: This one probably it's probably at the top of the list.

823
00:55:58,160 --> 00:56:00,600
Speaker 2: We probably should have started with this word. This word

824
00:56:00,680 --> 00:56:02,360
Speaker 2: is at the top of the list of the words

825
00:56:02,400 --> 00:56:13,200
Speaker 2: that get misused, right, narcissist. Okay, So, lady, we have

826
00:56:13,400 --> 00:56:18,920
Speaker 2: multiple episodes about narcissism. Two of the ones that we

827
00:56:19,040 --> 00:56:20,839
Speaker 2: think or three of the ones that we think are

828
00:56:20,880 --> 00:56:26,520
Speaker 2: most important for you to check out Season six, Episode seven,

829
00:56:27,600 --> 00:56:31,920
Speaker 2: Raised by a Narcissist Sign Symptoms and how to Recover

830
00:56:32,480 --> 00:56:41,600
Speaker 2: with doctor Romeny Ursilla. She's an expert in narcissism, and

831
00:56:42,000 --> 00:56:43,840
Speaker 2: if you are not familiar with her work or you

832
00:56:43,880 --> 00:56:46,800
Speaker 2: haven't listened to those episodes, I think you definitely should

833
00:56:46,840 --> 00:56:52,280
Speaker 2: check it out. Season ten, episode two, is your partner

834
00:56:52,320 --> 00:56:59,680
Speaker 2: a narcissist? Diving into Doctor Romeny's narcissism quiz? If you

835
00:56:59,719 --> 00:57:01,400
Speaker 2: are I should know whether or not your partner is

836
00:57:01,400 --> 00:57:04,200
Speaker 2: a narcissist. I'd definitely suggest that you take that quiz

837
00:57:04,200 --> 00:57:09,600
Speaker 2: to really get a real sense. And Season ten, episode three,

838
00:57:10,160 --> 00:57:15,520
Speaker 2: how to finally leave your narcissistic partner with Doctor Romney.

839
00:57:16,040 --> 00:57:26,680
Speaker 2: So here's the thing. True narcissist one, it's a personality disorder, okay,

840
00:57:26,920 --> 00:57:32,400
Speaker 2: meaning that it is diagnosable by a mental health provider

841
00:57:33,720 --> 00:57:42,160
Speaker 2: or medical professional, and it goes a lot deeper than

842
00:57:42,200 --> 00:57:48,760
Speaker 2: how we like to toss the term around, right. A

843
00:57:48,960 --> 00:57:54,840
Speaker 2: narcissist is someone who has an exaggerated sense of self importance,

844
00:57:56,160 --> 00:58:03,280
Speaker 2: a deep seated need for attention, little capacity for criticism,

845
00:58:03,320 --> 00:58:10,280
Speaker 2: and often takes advantages of other people. Okay, Now, just

846
00:58:10,360 --> 00:58:16,280
Speaker 2: so that we're clear, I don't care who you are.

847
00:58:18,480 --> 00:58:24,240
Speaker 2: You could be the kindest, sweetest person in the world.

848
00:58:26,760 --> 00:58:34,720
Speaker 2: Every single one of us has some selfish tendencies. Okay,

849
00:58:37,320 --> 00:58:41,120
Speaker 2: being selfish does not make you a narcissist. I'm gonna

850
00:58:41,120 --> 00:58:43,320
Speaker 2: say that one more time for all the folks in

851
00:58:43,360 --> 00:58:51,160
Speaker 2: the back. Being selfish does not make you a narcissist.

852
00:59:00,120 --> 00:59:04,480
Speaker 2: Narcissism really is a lot deeper. And I think that's

853
00:59:04,520 --> 00:59:10,440
Speaker 2: the thing with all of these words. Really experiencing them

854
00:59:10,720 --> 00:59:16,400
Speaker 2: is a lot deeper, a lot more harmful than how

855
00:59:16,480 --> 00:59:20,360
Speaker 2: we tend to use it in everyday conversation.

856
00:59:24,920 --> 00:59:27,520
Speaker 1: I also think down with a lot of these, it's

857
00:59:27,720 --> 00:59:31,840
Speaker 1: really the best way for you to really understand some

858
00:59:31,920 --> 00:59:34,000
Speaker 1: of these. I want to say adjectives that you might

859
00:59:34,120 --> 00:59:38,080
Speaker 1: use for a person. It goes back to the pattern, right,

860
00:59:38,280 --> 00:59:40,920
Speaker 1: so like, yeah, not just a one time situations like oh,

861
00:59:40,960 --> 00:59:44,400
Speaker 1: this person put themselves before everyone else, or this person

862
00:59:45,120 --> 00:59:47,640
Speaker 1: is like super confident. I think they're kind of, you know,

863
00:59:47,720 --> 00:59:49,920
Speaker 1: have an exaggerated sense of self importance. But it's like

864
00:59:50,280 --> 00:59:51,800
Speaker 1: sit back and look at the patterns, Like can you

865
00:59:51,840 --> 00:59:54,800
Speaker 1: write down I know a lot I know some narcissists okay,

866
00:59:55,800 --> 00:59:58,840
Speaker 1: really in my family Okay, And you can literally look

867
00:59:58,840 --> 01:00:01,480
Speaker 1: at the patterns over the years. How does this person

868
01:00:01,680 --> 01:00:04,880
Speaker 1: how what is their their sort of baseline behavior, right,

869
01:00:05,680 --> 01:00:08,080
Speaker 1: that I think is the best way in my opinion,

870
01:00:08,440 --> 01:00:10,760
Speaker 1: because a lot of times we're not gonna, you know,

871
01:00:10,800 --> 01:00:13,840
Speaker 1: get the diagnosis for people who are not interested in

872
01:00:13,880 --> 01:00:17,120
Speaker 1: the healing and even understanding what their disorder is. And

873
01:00:17,120 --> 01:00:18,920
Speaker 1: so when you look at the patterns and you look

874
01:00:18,920 --> 01:00:21,240
Speaker 1: at the definition and you're like, oh, I've seen this

875
01:00:21,360 --> 01:00:24,080
Speaker 1: on several instances, then you can probably assume that maybe

876
01:00:24,080 --> 01:00:27,240
Speaker 1: they are a narcissist. But if it does not fit

877
01:00:27,280 --> 01:00:30,240
Speaker 1: the definition that Dom just described, there are other words

878
01:00:30,280 --> 01:00:33,680
Speaker 1: we can use, which you've already shared a couple, selfish,

879
01:00:34,640 --> 01:00:39,640
Speaker 1: self centered, I don't know what else, dom versus instead

880
01:00:39,640 --> 01:00:42,520
Speaker 1: of narcissist, arrogance, yeah.

881
01:00:42,520 --> 01:00:49,240
Speaker 2: Argan manipulator. So the thing is is that very few

882
01:00:49,560 --> 01:00:54,920
Speaker 2: people truly are narcissists, right, So, like Terry, even when

883
01:00:54,960 --> 01:00:56,640
Speaker 2: you were saying you talk about your family, you can

884
01:00:56,680 --> 01:01:02,000
Speaker 2: identify like narcissists in your family. I guess is that

885
01:01:02,240 --> 01:01:07,240
Speaker 2: even within your family, there are very few narcissists like

886
01:01:07,280 --> 01:01:12,160
Speaker 2: that meet the full criteria for that definition, right, or

887
01:01:12,160 --> 01:01:17,440
Speaker 2: for that diagnosis. But they may possess a lot of

888
01:01:17,640 --> 01:01:23,760
Speaker 2: narcissistic qualities, and that becomes the tricky.

889
01:01:23,400 --> 01:01:26,880
Speaker 1: Part, right, say that feels tricky. Feel they don't have

890
01:01:26,920 --> 01:01:29,880
Speaker 1: to do another deep dive on narcissism, because I wonder

891
01:01:29,960 --> 01:01:34,560
Speaker 1: where when you have the narcissistic or the actual disorder

892
01:01:34,640 --> 01:01:36,680
Speaker 1: and then someone who has many because I know we

893
01:01:36,720 --> 01:01:38,080
Speaker 1: all have the traits, but someone who.

894
01:01:37,920 --> 01:01:40,200
Speaker 2: Has like more traits than others.

895
01:01:40,320 --> 01:01:44,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, they like went od on the traits. How

896
01:01:44,280 --> 01:01:46,840
Speaker 1: do we differentiate.

897
01:01:47,080 --> 01:01:52,720
Speaker 2: So those so they may again, I think again, it

898
01:01:52,800 --> 01:01:57,000
Speaker 2: goes back to looking at patterns of behavior, but overall

899
01:01:57,720 --> 01:02:02,800
Speaker 2: looking at core personality mm hmm. That's why it's considered

900
01:02:02,800 --> 01:02:08,480
Speaker 2: a personality disorder. Right that the narcissists may also appear

901
01:02:08,520 --> 01:02:09,640
Speaker 2: to be charming at.

902
01:02:09,440 --> 01:02:12,560
Speaker 1: Times and charismatic, very much so.

903
01:02:13,040 --> 01:02:20,240
Speaker 2: Right. But the difference is is that those people it's

904
01:02:20,280 --> 01:02:32,600
Speaker 2: an exaggerated sense, right, And it's a palpable feeling when

905
01:02:32,640 --> 01:02:37,600
Speaker 2: you engage with that person because they also might have

906
01:02:39,200 --> 01:02:49,800
Speaker 2: that sense of self importance. Their procedes power is also

907
01:02:50,040 --> 01:02:58,640
Speaker 2: not in alignment with the reality mm hmm. And so

908
01:03:01,080 --> 01:03:11,680
Speaker 2: and they're and it feels more sinister when you step

909
01:03:11,760 --> 01:03:19,440
Speaker 2: back and look at the patterns over time, and oftentimes

910
01:03:20,160 --> 01:03:23,320
Speaker 2: they engage in this way with multiple people.

911
01:03:26,040 --> 01:03:27,960
Speaker 1: Mm hm.

912
01:03:28,440 --> 01:03:31,640
Speaker 2: And so the reality is that very like there are

913
01:03:31,680 --> 01:03:33,800
Speaker 2: not a lot of people that meet the that meet

914
01:03:33,840 --> 01:03:39,120
Speaker 2: the full criteria for the personality disorder. And and again,

915
01:03:39,240 --> 01:03:42,640
Speaker 2: like you said, there are levels to it. Baseline, every

916
01:03:42,640 --> 01:03:46,520
Speaker 2: one of us has selfish qualities, like full stop, we

917
01:03:46,600 --> 01:03:51,439
Speaker 2: all have selfish qualities. Okay, I'm gonna say that that's

918
01:03:51,480 --> 01:03:54,240
Speaker 2: like a zero, right, because that's we all possess it.

919
01:03:56,240 --> 01:03:59,040
Speaker 2: Our person with narcissistic personality disorders. On a scale of

920
01:03:59,120 --> 01:04:06,040
Speaker 2: zero to ten, they're at a people that can be harmful,

921
01:04:06,640 --> 01:04:12,880
Speaker 2: people that might be toxic. Their narcissistic qualities might be

922
01:04:13,000 --> 01:04:19,400
Speaker 2: at a between a five and a seven. They're not

923
01:04:19,440 --> 01:04:25,560
Speaker 2: at a ten. And so I think the way to

924
01:04:25,680 --> 01:04:34,720
Speaker 2: think about it is, let's really step back and look

925
01:04:34,760 --> 01:04:39,320
Speaker 2: at that person, what they're doing, how they as a

926
01:04:39,360 --> 01:04:42,840
Speaker 2: person engage, and maybe we might say that they're being selfish.

927
01:04:43,200 --> 01:04:45,960
Speaker 2: Maybe we might say that they're being self centered. We

928
01:04:46,080 --> 01:04:49,600
Speaker 2: might even say that they've taken advantage of somebody, or

929
01:04:49,600 --> 01:04:55,960
Speaker 2: they've manipulated a situation. Maybe we might even act accurately

930
01:04:56,600 --> 01:05:03,560
Speaker 2: identify them as toxic. Chances are there more likely to

931
01:05:03,600 --> 01:05:05,680
Speaker 2: be toxic than an actual narcissist.

932
01:05:07,880 --> 01:05:11,240
Speaker 1: There we go, Well, I think we are going to

933
01:05:11,280 --> 01:05:15,040
Speaker 1: be closing out with a good one that will help

934
01:05:15,120 --> 01:05:19,840
Speaker 1: with everything else we cover today and number six lady

935
01:05:20,160 --> 01:05:24,720
Speaker 1: boundaries boundaries. Let's talk about boundaries, John. We have two

936
01:05:24,720 --> 01:05:28,080
Speaker 1: episodes so far. I'm sure we talk about boundaries in

937
01:05:28,080 --> 01:05:29,720
Speaker 1: a lot of episodes, but these are two with the

938
01:05:29,760 --> 01:05:32,200
Speaker 1: boundaries in the title where we do a deeper dive.

939
01:05:32,280 --> 01:05:35,160
Speaker 1: And so first we have season Oh Dan, they're both

940
01:05:35,160 --> 01:05:35,960
Speaker 1: from season one.

941
01:05:36,520 --> 01:05:36,800
Speaker 2: Yep.

942
01:05:36,880 --> 01:05:38,800
Speaker 1: Oh okay, we gotta do a little update. We want

943
01:05:38,800 --> 01:05:41,280
Speaker 1: season twenty twenty three. We gotta do it upnat. So

944
01:05:41,400 --> 01:05:45,919
Speaker 1: Season one episode nine is how to set boundaries effectively.

945
01:05:46,640 --> 01:05:49,840
Speaker 1: No is a complete sentence. And then we have season one,

946
01:05:49,960 --> 01:05:54,800
Speaker 1: episode thirteen, which is boundary violations you might be crossing

947
01:05:55,120 --> 01:05:59,920
Speaker 1: that are impacting your relationships. Okay, let's dig.

948
01:06:01,320 --> 01:06:04,080
Speaker 2: So here's the thing. Every single one of us uses

949
01:06:04,120 --> 01:06:07,200
Speaker 2: the word boundary. I can't even tell you. I would

950
01:06:07,280 --> 01:06:14,960
Speaker 2: be balling out of control if I was paid for

951
01:06:15,080 --> 01:06:18,400
Speaker 2: every time I use the word boundary, Okay, got you,

952
01:06:18,440 --> 01:06:24,680
Speaker 2: got you? I use it so much like I probably

953
01:06:24,720 --> 01:06:30,000
Speaker 2: over use the word okay at this point. And so

954
01:06:30,800 --> 01:06:33,160
Speaker 2: as we're having this conversation, I'm like trying to I'm

955
01:06:33,200 --> 01:06:39,200
Speaker 2: internally like checking my own self, right, So Boundaries are

956
01:06:39,400 --> 01:06:44,280
Speaker 2: the rules or personal guidelines that we use to help

957
01:06:44,360 --> 01:06:51,320
Speaker 2: maintain healthy relationships. Okay, let's say that again. Boundaries are

958
01:06:52,280 --> 01:06:56,920
Speaker 2: rules or personal guidelines that we use to help maintain

959
01:06:57,360 --> 01:07:07,280
Speaker 2: healthy relationships. Now here's the thing. This one is a

960
01:07:07,280 --> 01:07:15,120
Speaker 2: word that generally speaking, most people use it appropriately. Right.

961
01:07:15,360 --> 01:07:17,440
Speaker 2: So now you're like, well, down, why why is this

962
01:07:17,520 --> 01:07:22,080
Speaker 2: even why are we even talking about Well, we're talking

963
01:07:22,080 --> 01:07:31,080
Speaker 2: about it because people have people some people have weaponized

964
01:07:31,120 --> 01:07:32,160
Speaker 2: the word boundary.

965
01:07:32,560 --> 01:07:33,240
Speaker 1: Yes, they have.

966
01:07:35,080 --> 01:07:40,840
Speaker 2: To exert control over people or to get people to

967
01:07:41,040 --> 01:07:47,640
Speaker 2: do things that they want to do. Okay, So for example,

968
01:07:50,040 --> 01:08:01,600
Speaker 2: let's say that I wanted to have bottomless mimosas that brunch, right,

969
01:08:03,240 --> 01:08:07,440
Speaker 2: and it's a group of us hanging out. We decide

970
01:08:07,480 --> 01:08:10,880
Speaker 2: we're gonna go enjoy us a good brunch like most

971
01:08:10,920 --> 01:08:16,920
Speaker 2: of us do. Right, Everybody's sitting at the table and

972
01:08:17,280 --> 01:08:19,599
Speaker 2: I said, like, we're trying. We're looking at the menu,

973
01:08:21,320 --> 01:08:25,080
Speaker 2: and I say, well, you know, y'all, my boundary at

974
01:08:25,160 --> 01:08:33,960
Speaker 2: brunch is that everybody's got to do bottomless mimosas. Now. Now, now,

975
01:08:34,360 --> 01:08:40,559
Speaker 2: and let me be clear that that is a rule.

976
01:08:40,880 --> 01:08:44,680
Speaker 2: So it is a boundary, right, Like by technical definition,

977
01:08:46,760 --> 01:08:49,080
Speaker 2: that is a rule that I've created for how I'm

978
01:08:49,080 --> 01:08:55,880
Speaker 2: engaging with people. However, I am misusing it because now

979
01:08:55,920 --> 01:08:59,400
Speaker 2: I'm trying to exert control over everybody in the space.

980
01:09:00,240 --> 01:09:06,879
Speaker 1: You want everybody to be drunks here about it, right, And.

981
01:09:08,800 --> 01:09:14,200
Speaker 2: That is a misuse. Oh, go ahead, go ahead.

982
01:09:14,439 --> 01:09:15,880
Speaker 1: I was just gonna say. I feel like there's also

983
01:09:15,920 --> 01:09:18,439
Speaker 1: the inverse where someone where you try to set a

984
01:09:18,479 --> 01:09:22,280
Speaker 1: boundary and then someone sort of demonizes you for setting

985
01:09:22,280 --> 01:09:25,759
Speaker 1: a boundary. Like Yeah, for instance, let's say I'm gonna say,

986
01:09:25,920 --> 01:09:28,360
Speaker 1: let's say you wanted me to drive down to come

987
01:09:28,439 --> 01:09:31,160
Speaker 1: see you on a certain weekend to like help you

988
01:09:31,200 --> 01:09:32,920
Speaker 1: put together a piece of furniture, because you know I

989
01:09:32,960 --> 01:09:35,599
Speaker 1: love to put together furniture. And I'm like, ooh, dom,

990
01:09:35,720 --> 01:09:38,880
Speaker 1: I really can't come this weekend because I said that

991
01:09:38,920 --> 01:09:41,040
Speaker 1: I was going to do this self care weekend for myself,

992
01:09:41,080 --> 01:09:43,400
Speaker 1: like I really want to prioritize that because I just

993
01:09:43,479 --> 01:09:45,519
Speaker 1: had a really busy time, a lot going on in life,

994
01:09:45,760 --> 01:09:47,600
Speaker 1: and I set that boundary. That's a boundary, right, I'm like,

995
01:09:47,640 --> 01:09:51,080
Speaker 1: I'm saying that it's a boundary for myself, But you

996
01:09:51,160 --> 01:09:54,280
Speaker 1: really want this this furniture put together, and so then

997
01:09:54,880 --> 01:09:57,920
Speaker 1: you're like, well, damn, that's really tough. Like now you

998
01:09:57,960 --> 01:10:01,000
Speaker 1: call me toxic or like, talk to your heart to

999
01:10:01,040 --> 01:10:02,759
Speaker 1: deal with You're being a bitch.

1000
01:10:02,600 --> 01:10:04,960
Speaker 2: Like whatever, You're being narcissistic.

1001
01:10:05,160 --> 01:10:10,320
Speaker 1: You're being narcissistic and forwards right, Like, so now people

1002
01:10:10,400 --> 01:10:14,559
Speaker 1: are criticizing you for setting a boundary. So I think

1003
01:10:14,600 --> 01:10:16,800
Speaker 1: there's there's like that happens in both scenarios. Right, I'm

1004
01:10:16,800 --> 01:10:18,840
Speaker 1: glad you put that on the list. This is good.

1005
01:10:19,479 --> 01:10:26,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, And so ideally, a boundary is about how you

1006
01:10:26,600 --> 01:10:31,599
Speaker 2: are engaging with other people, right, And it's up to

1007
01:10:31,720 --> 01:10:35,000
Speaker 2: you to communicate your boundary, and it's also up to

1008
01:10:35,080 --> 01:10:39,960
Speaker 2: you to enforce the boundary. Okay, But again, your boundary

1009
01:10:40,040 --> 01:10:43,759
Speaker 2: is not about exerting control over other people. It's about

1010
01:10:43,760 --> 01:10:47,479
Speaker 2: how you want to engage with others, so or engage

1011
01:10:47,520 --> 01:10:51,040
Speaker 2: with yourself. Right, So, like the example that you gave,

1012
01:10:51,800 --> 01:10:57,560
Speaker 2: I'm taking a weekend to prioritize my self care. Therefore,

1013
01:10:57,840 --> 01:11:03,320
Speaker 2: I am not scheduling anything else during that time. You

1014
01:11:03,560 --> 01:11:09,400
Speaker 2: not scheduling anything else during that weekend is your boundary, right.

1015
01:11:11,240 --> 01:11:14,960
Speaker 2: It is up to you to then communicate and enforce

1016
01:11:15,040 --> 01:11:20,080
Speaker 2: that boundary. So let's say, going back to this example

1017
01:11:20,640 --> 01:11:23,760
Speaker 2: that I communicated that, hey, tea, come on down, like

1018
01:11:23,840 --> 01:11:27,040
Speaker 2: help me put this furniture together on this particular weekend.

1019
01:11:28,400 --> 01:11:32,600
Speaker 2: And you're like, well, can we choose another weekend because

1020
01:11:34,880 --> 01:11:41,160
Speaker 2: this is my personal care weekend. That is you enforcing

1021
01:11:41,240 --> 01:11:50,360
Speaker 2: your boundary. That is you also communicating what that boundary is. Now,

1022
01:11:50,439 --> 01:11:57,360
Speaker 2: let's say I come back with, well, that's the only

1023
01:11:57,400 --> 01:12:00,880
Speaker 2: weekend that I have available. I'm going to have another

1024
01:12:00,960 --> 01:12:03,559
Speaker 2: available weekend. You know, I like to be traveling, so

1025
01:12:03,720 --> 01:12:09,720
Speaker 2: I'm gonna be gone for the next two months. Can

1026
01:12:09,760 --> 01:12:15,720
Speaker 2: you please come this that weekend? And you decide, now

1027
01:12:15,760 --> 01:12:18,000
Speaker 2: you've already communicated your boundary to me and try to

1028
01:12:18,120 --> 01:12:23,720
Speaker 2: enforce it. You decide that you're gonna come up, You're

1029
01:12:23,760 --> 01:12:28,360
Speaker 2: gonna come down here anyway, going against your own boundary.

1030
01:12:29,479 --> 01:12:31,479
Speaker 2: You going against your own boundaries on you.

1031
01:12:31,520 --> 01:12:36,480
Speaker 1: Now, mm hmm. That's why that's not about me exactly.

1032
01:12:36,560 --> 01:12:39,800
Speaker 1: And when you said your boundary is your limit to

1033
01:12:39,880 --> 01:12:43,040
Speaker 1: set and also enforce, it was the that part for me,

1034
01:12:43,120 --> 01:12:45,120
Speaker 1: the enforce, because that was always a tough part. I'll

1035
01:12:45,120 --> 01:12:47,120
Speaker 1: be like, okay, cool, this is my boundary. When I'm

1036
01:12:47,120 --> 01:12:48,880
Speaker 1: by myself, it is easy to a set the boundary,

1037
01:12:48,880 --> 01:12:51,240
Speaker 1: like to say to state what it is. But then

1038
01:12:51,240 --> 01:12:53,000
Speaker 1: when you have to enforce it, that's when the other

1039
01:12:53,760 --> 01:12:55,800
Speaker 1: another level of strength needs to come in. And I

1040
01:12:55,840 --> 01:12:58,960
Speaker 1: love that because once you let your boundary go and

1041
01:12:59,000 --> 01:13:01,280
Speaker 1: you let someone kind of you know.

1042
01:13:03,000 --> 01:13:07,240
Speaker 2: And you have to communicate the boundary too, exactly, because

1043
01:13:07,280 --> 01:13:10,240
Speaker 2: the key with a boundary is again the definition of

1044
01:13:10,280 --> 01:13:14,800
Speaker 2: a boundary is a personal guideline for maintaining healthy relationships.

1045
01:13:15,439 --> 01:13:20,360
Speaker 2: I cannot expect you to respect a boundary that I

1046
01:13:20,439 --> 01:13:21,720
Speaker 2: did not communicate to.

1047
01:13:21,720 --> 01:13:26,639
Speaker 1: You, okay, or that you be fickled with because I'm

1048
01:13:26,680 --> 01:13:29,240
Speaker 1: talking about her that I will set it down boundaries

1049
01:13:29,280 --> 01:13:32,439
Speaker 1: sometimes and then be like okay, just joking, like I'm

1050
01:13:32,439 --> 01:13:34,920
Speaker 1: gonna just okay, and then and it's like what and

1051
01:13:34,920 --> 01:13:38,080
Speaker 1: it ain't the boundaries. I have to enforce it, okay.

1052
01:13:37,840 --> 01:13:42,640
Speaker 2: Yes, and so if you So, the thing is is

1053
01:13:42,680 --> 01:13:49,280
Speaker 2: that if you when it comes to boundaries, you want

1054
01:13:49,320 --> 01:13:54,040
Speaker 2: to be respectful of other people's boundaries and you want

1055
01:13:54,080 --> 01:13:59,080
Speaker 2: to be sure that you are not creating boundaries to

1056
01:13:59,120 --> 01:14:04,480
Speaker 2: manipulate people people into doing things that might violate their boundaries,

1057
01:14:05,360 --> 01:14:13,040
Speaker 2: or have you engaging in some selfish behaviors to exert

1058
01:14:13,080 --> 01:14:19,880
Speaker 2: control over others. Because again, boundaries are about healthy relationships

1059
01:14:19,960 --> 01:14:21,280
Speaker 2: and dynamics.

1060
01:14:23,280 --> 01:14:28,360
Speaker 1: Wow, okay, lady, so we covered a whole lot. Do

1061
01:14:28,479 --> 01:14:31,800
Speaker 1: we finish boundaries? Is anything else we tell boundaries? Right,

1062
01:14:32,520 --> 01:14:34,759
Speaker 1: let's do a recap, lady. So the worst that we

1063
01:14:34,840 --> 01:14:40,320
Speaker 1: cover today that are commonly misused that we provided alternatives

1064
01:14:40,320 --> 01:14:46,840
Speaker 1: for include gaslighting number one, toxic number two, traumatized or

1065
01:14:46,880 --> 01:14:52,640
Speaker 1: trauma number three, triggered number four, narcissists number five, and

1066
01:14:52,760 --> 01:14:59,200
Speaker 1: number six is boundaries or are boundaries? And I think

1067
01:14:59,680 --> 01:15:03,439
Speaker 1: that what's up the main show? Lady? We are going

1068
01:15:03,479 --> 01:15:05,519
Speaker 1: to record the after show, So if you want to

1069
01:15:05,560 --> 01:15:09,400
Speaker 1: watch this episode and the after show, you can head

1070
01:15:09,439 --> 01:15:11,320
Speaker 1: on over to pay You can head on over to

1071
01:15:11,360 --> 01:15:14,600
Speaker 1: our Patreon. You can visit our patreon by going to

1072
01:15:14,640 --> 01:15:19,160
Speaker 1: Herspace podcast dot com clicking on Patreon. Come support a

1073
01:15:19,280 --> 01:15:22,560
Speaker 1: black owned business. Are these two lovely black women that

1074
01:15:22,600 --> 01:15:25,160
Speaker 1: you've been listening to? That's us and we appreciate you

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Speaker 1: for watching, Lady. We'll catch you in the after show.

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Speaker 2: Hey, lady, it's doctor Dom here from the Cultivating her

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Speaker 2: Space podcast. Are you currently a resident of the state

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01:15:35,560 --> 01:15:41,000
Speaker 2: of California and contemplating starting your therapy journey? Well, if so,

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Speaker 2: please reach out to me at doctor Dominique Brusard dot com.

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01:15:46,479 --> 01:15:51,360
Speaker 2: That's d R D O M I N I q

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01:15:51,640 --> 01:15:57,040
Speaker 2: U E b r O U ss ar D dot

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Speaker 2: com to schedule a free fifteen minute consultation. I look

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Speaker 2: forward to hearing from you. Thanks for joining us today.

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Speaker 2: Please note that our show may contain conversations about self help, advice,

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Speaker 2: self empowerment, and mental health, but is by no means

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Speaker 2: meant to be a substitute for an ongoing formal relationship

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Speaker 2: with a trained mental health provider. If you are someone

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01:16:25,960 --> 01:16:29,280
Speaker 2: you know is in need of mental health care, please

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01:16:29,400 --> 01:16:34,519
Speaker 2: visit a Therapy for Black Girls directory Psychology today or

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01:16:34,600 --> 01:16:36,280
Speaker 2: contact your insurance provider.

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Speaker 1: If you liked what you heard and want to keep

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01:16:38,280 --> 01:16:42,000
Speaker 1: the conversation going, visit our website at Herspace podcast dot

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01:16:42,040 --> 01:16:44,560
Speaker 1: com and be sure to click the Patreon link to

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01:16:44,600 --> 01:16:48,320
Speaker 1: get access to video content, bonuses, and our weekly after

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01:16:48,360 --> 01:16:52,400
Speaker 1: show and before we meet again, repeat after me. My

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Speaker 1: energy is a gift. I choose to share it wisely

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Speaker 1: and leave a positive imprint on the world.