1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:03,480 Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on 2 00:00:03,560 --> 00:00:07,760 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio and welcome to Coast to Coast. Leslie Klinger back 3 00:00:07,840 --> 00:00:10,240 Speaker 1: with us. He was last done with Ian Punnit back 4 00:00:10,280 --> 00:00:13,360 Speaker 1: in twenty nineteen. Considered to be one of the world's 5 00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:19,000 Speaker 1: foremost authorities on Sherlock Holmes, Dracula, HP, Lovecraft, Frankenstein, in 6 00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:22,080 Speaker 1: the history of mystery and horror fiction. He's the editor 7 00:00:22,120 --> 00:00:25,440 Speaker 1: of many books, including the three volume The New Annotated 8 00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:29,440 Speaker 1: Sherlock Holmes and the New York Times bestselling Annotated Sandman, 9 00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:31,560 Speaker 1: and also the one We're talking to about tonight, The 10 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:34,920 Speaker 1: Strange Case of Doctor Jackal and Mister Hyde. A two 11 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:39,320 Speaker 1: time Edgar Award winner. He has also edited two anthologies 12 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:43,879 Speaker 1: of classic nineteenth century mysteries, co edited five anthologies of 13 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:48,040 Speaker 1: Sherlock Holmes stories with Laurie King, and four anthologies of 14 00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:52,280 Speaker 1: classic supernatural fiction with Lisa Morton. He has co edited 15 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:55,960 Speaker 1: the eighth volume Haunted Library of Horror Classics and is 16 00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:59,160 Speaker 1: the editor of the Library of Congress Classic Series, now 17 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:04,040 Speaker 1: eleven volume. Leslie, you never get done, You're always working well. 18 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:06,960 Speaker 1: I gotta keep busy, George. It's great to be back 19 00:01:06,959 --> 00:01:08,800 Speaker 1: on the show, and you know I have to think 20 00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:10,520 Speaker 1: of new books all the time so that I can 21 00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:13,440 Speaker 1: come back. Well, I'm glad you are, and this is fantastic. 22 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:17,319 Speaker 1: I've always been fascinated with the story of Jacqueline Hyde. 23 00:01:17,319 --> 00:01:19,199 Speaker 1: I mean it's been fascic. But a lot of people 24 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:22,720 Speaker 1: have a misunderstanding of that story. Tell us a little 25 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:27,959 Speaker 1: bit about your thoughts. Well, people see this like many 26 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:30,639 Speaker 1: of the classics. Their view of the book is based 27 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:35,160 Speaker 1: on the movies, and the movies, naturally enough, have simplified 28 00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:39,800 Speaker 1: the story, changed the story, added romantic elements, and so on. 29 00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:46,200 Speaker 1: This is not a story about science gone bad. Just 30 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:49,600 Speaker 1: like Frankenstein is misconstrued to be that kind of a book, 31 00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:55,320 Speaker 1: so is Jacqueline Hyde. This is about a man, and 32 00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:58,480 Speaker 1: I don't want to see a bad man. A normal 33 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 1: man who's got some bad and some good, who decides 34 00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:06,440 Speaker 1: that he can be better if he lets the bad out. 35 00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:13,000 Speaker 1: And it has terrible consequences. But it's a very human story, 36 00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:16,280 Speaker 1: and I think that's the part that people skip over. 37 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:19,560 Speaker 1: They want it to be about monsters. It is it is, 38 00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:23,320 Speaker 1: And I remember as a kid reading the story and 39 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:26,200 Speaker 1: seeing the story you write the movies, Duke, take it 40 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:30,040 Speaker 1: out of the way, and I'll always remember the change, 41 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:33,359 Speaker 1: the chemical change, and everything else. And then but it's 42 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:36,560 Speaker 1: really not about that kind of science, isn't. No, it's 43 00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:43,000 Speaker 1: it's really about Stevenson himself described it brilliantly as that 44 00:02:43,160 --> 00:02:48,079 Speaker 1: old war of the Members. What he meant was that 45 00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:52,080 Speaker 1: all of us struggle with our good nature and our 46 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:56,160 Speaker 1: bad nature, with the we have sins, we have flaws, 47 00:02:56,600 --> 00:02:59,919 Speaker 1: and we try and deal with them. We try and 48 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:04,040 Speaker 1: adjust our lives and adjust our personalities to deal with that. 49 00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:09,920 Speaker 1: But doctor Jackal decided to take the easy course. He 50 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:15,840 Speaker 1: thought he could be perhaps better if he separated his 51 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:19,720 Speaker 1: good and bad sides, and it turned out to be 52 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:23,480 Speaker 1: a disaster. It sure did. So let's let's break them 53 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:26,960 Speaker 1: down as two individuals if we can tell us who 54 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:32,480 Speaker 1: doctor Jackal was, so Jeckyll is unlike the film versions, 55 00:03:32,960 --> 00:03:38,840 Speaker 1: Jackal is not some unalloyed goody goody. He's not a 56 00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:46,000 Speaker 1: charitable doctor. He's a normal English gentleman who, in fact, 57 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:50,040 Speaker 1: we know has had some sins in his past. The 58 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:53,080 Speaker 1: book is very ambiguous about the nature of his sins, 59 00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:59,040 Speaker 1: and we're not sure whether he's repenting for youthful dalliances 60 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:03,480 Speaker 1: with prostitute, or whether he had homosexual encounters in his 61 00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:07,080 Speaker 1: youth that he's ashamed of now. But he's clearly trying 62 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:10,640 Speaker 1: to make up for this, And as I say, he 63 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:14,680 Speaker 1: comes up with this wrongheaded notion that a chemical may 64 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:20,080 Speaker 1: help him by separating out the elements of his personality 65 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:23,599 Speaker 1: that are good and they're bad. And so when he 66 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:28,359 Speaker 1: takes the chemical now comes out not a monster but 67 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:35,280 Speaker 1: his own natural evil side. He is released without any constraints. 68 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:39,320 Speaker 1: Was he schizophrenic? I don't think any more so than 69 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:43,520 Speaker 1: anybody else. And this came out at a period where 70 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:48,240 Speaker 1: Jack the Ripper was a real problem in England, wasn't it? Absolutely? Absolutely? 71 00:04:48,279 --> 00:04:51,440 Speaker 1: It was eighteen eighty six. The Ripper is doing his 72 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:54,360 Speaker 1: work in mainly in eighteen eighty eight, but it's certainly 73 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:58,359 Speaker 1: the time period. And it's interesting The Ripper murders began 74 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:04,680 Speaker 1: in eighteen eight six and people blame jackal and Hyde. 75 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:08,599 Speaker 1: That's interesting. And tell us again about doctor mister Hyde. 76 00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:11,640 Speaker 1: Who is he? Well? Hyde is We don't Again, we 77 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:14,640 Speaker 1: don't really know the nature of his sins other than 78 00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:18,720 Speaker 1: he does commit a murder. But he is a he's 79 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:24,279 Speaker 1: a very secretive person. He is interestingly physically smaller than 80 00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:29,279 Speaker 1: doctor Jekyl, and people don't like looking at him. He's 81 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:31,960 Speaker 1: uncomfortable to look at. We don't know whether he's got 82 00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:37,039 Speaker 1: some physical deformities, but just his very appearance makes your 83 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:44,920 Speaker 1: skin crawl. This is Jackal's bad side. These are all 84 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:49,560 Speaker 1: the evil elements in Jackyl's character that he's left unalloyed. 85 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:55,520 Speaker 1: There's no leavening of goodness, and there's no conscience in Hyde. 86 00:05:56,160 --> 00:06:01,080 Speaker 1: When Stevenson wrote the story, did he concoct two physically 87 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:06,799 Speaker 1: different people, doctor Jackal mister Hyde? Not really, not really, 88 00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:10,560 Speaker 1: because this is conceived of Jackal actually has the idea 89 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:15,080 Speaker 1: to hide, has the idea actually that he has achieved 90 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:20,400 Speaker 1: the perfect disguise. So when Hyde is around, this isn't 91 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:25,080 Speaker 1: the person who splits into two beings. This is someone 92 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:32,000 Speaker 1: who becomes mister Hyde. So when Hyde wants to hide 93 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:36,880 Speaker 1: unintended by Stevenson, I think when Hyde wants to hide, 94 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:41,800 Speaker 1: he turns back into Jackal and there's no wow evidence 95 00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:46,760 Speaker 1: of hide at all, and vice versa. You ever remembered 96 00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:52,039 Speaker 1: less the film would Jerry Lewis called the absent minded Professor? Right? 97 00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:56,120 Speaker 1: The nfor is it? Was? It? The natty Professor a 98 00:06:56,240 --> 00:06:59,200 Speaker 1: great film, one of my favorites. That's a little like 99 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:04,479 Speaker 1: Jacqueline Hide, because he becomes that that other character. That's right, 100 00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:09,880 Speaker 1: he becomes a person with none of the character restraints. 101 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:14,160 Speaker 1: He's not a very nice person. He becomes this uh swan. 102 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:21,440 Speaker 1: He goes from being an absent minded professor into this suave, 103 00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:29,200 Speaker 1: sophisticated jazz musician, as I recall, with an attraction, very 104 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:33,280 Speaker 1: attractive to women. And what was his name, Buddy Love 105 00:07:33,400 --> 00:07:36,480 Speaker 1: or something like that. You have a better memory than I, 106 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:40,840 Speaker 1: Buddy Love. Yes, And there's been other, of course, comic 107 00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:43,440 Speaker 1: Jacqueline Hyde versions, but that's one of my favorites. I 108 00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:46,400 Speaker 1: remember seeing it as a kid. It was great. So 109 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:49,720 Speaker 1: Stee Stevenson trying to tell us in his work on 110 00:07:49,960 --> 00:07:52,640 Speaker 1: Doctor Jekyl and mister Hyde that all of us have 111 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:58,520 Speaker 1: two personalities within ourselves, yes exactly, at least two personel 112 00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:02,720 Speaker 1: at least that we have all of these human elements 113 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:07,640 Speaker 1: and they're at war. They're at war with each other, 114 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:12,960 Speaker 1: and we need to stop being hypocritical about this. So 115 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:17,240 Speaker 1: this was written at a time when I think Stevenson 116 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:21,560 Speaker 1: himself felt very much that he was a hypocrite. He 117 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:25,960 Speaker 1: had been intended by his parents to become a respectable 118 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:30,280 Speaker 1: professional class member who was going to be an architect, 119 00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:33,800 Speaker 1: and he really wanted to be an artist. And I 120 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:36,720 Speaker 1: think he felt that he himself was living a double life, 121 00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:42,200 Speaker 1: and he resented the hypocrisy he was forced into, and 122 00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:46,520 Speaker 1: he resented the hypocrisy of English society. Tell us a 123 00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:49,000 Speaker 1: little bit more about Stevenson. I mean, was the guy 124 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:54,600 Speaker 1: creative and clever? He must have been, Yes, a wonderful writer. 125 00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:59,240 Speaker 1: Perhaps remembered. I mean people have forgotten, I think to 126 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:02,680 Speaker 1: some extent that he wrote this book us. He's well 127 00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:07,839 Speaker 1: remembered for having written Treasure Island, Kidnapped Child, Garden of 128 00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:11,280 Speaker 1: Verses and other books that people think of his wonderful 129 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:16,080 Speaker 1: children's books, But in fact he was writing all kinds 130 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:19,760 Speaker 1: of material. He also wrote The Master of Balan Tray 131 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:26,720 Speaker 1: and other books about Scotland and its history, and many 132 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:31,360 Speaker 1: many short stories. He wrote mystery stories. This is his 133 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:36,280 Speaker 1: mystery novel, if you will. But he was a prolific writer. 134 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:41,560 Speaker 1: Did he burn this manuscript originally? Well, that's a that's 135 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:46,840 Speaker 1: a complicated question, George. We're not sure is the answer 136 00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:52,480 Speaker 1: to that. His wife Florence claimed that he had burned 137 00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 1: the manuscript. It's clear that he destroyed. She tells a 138 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:02,679 Speaker 1: story about him coming out and saying to her, I've 139 00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:07,720 Speaker 1: burned it. I'm starting over. It may be that she 140 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:11,120 Speaker 1: burned it. It's pretty clear that she didn't like it. 141 00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:16,600 Speaker 1: The first draft anyway. I think she thought was too sexual. 142 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:23,440 Speaker 1: As I said, the final version is very ambiguous about 143 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:27,480 Speaker 1: the sins, the sins committed by Jackel in his past, 144 00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:31,520 Speaker 1: the sins committed by Hide, and I think perhaps the 145 00:10:31,559 --> 00:10:37,520 Speaker 1: first version, which we've never seen, was less ambiguous, and 146 00:10:37,679 --> 00:10:40,480 Speaker 1: she wanted it to be more allegorical, so she may 147 00:10:40,520 --> 00:10:45,520 Speaker 1: have burned it herself. But in any event, Stevenson did 148 00:10:45,559 --> 00:10:48,880 Speaker 1: destroy the first The first draft was destroyed, we'll put 149 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:52,840 Speaker 1: it that way, and very quickly he produced a second draft. 150 00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:56,360 Speaker 1: The whole story took him like three days to write, 151 00:10:56,480 --> 00:10:59,080 Speaker 1: and then he polished it and polished it. But it 152 00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:01,800 Speaker 1: was done in about six weeks. When it came out 153 00:11:01,840 --> 00:11:06,160 Speaker 1: in eighteen eighty six. Was it an instant success, Yes, 154 00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:11,360 Speaker 1: it was, actually it was. It was very popular and 155 00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:19,320 Speaker 1: very controversial. The people were preaching about it from from 156 00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:24,880 Speaker 1: the pulpit, as they said. People blamed it for inspiring 157 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:28,960 Speaker 1: Jack the Ripper but it was. It was a success, 158 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:31,880 Speaker 1: and part of the success was that it was also 159 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:38,119 Speaker 1: immediately ripped off for the stage. The copyright laws basically 160 00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:41,800 Speaker 1: didn't protect authors who didn't produce their own stage version, 161 00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:44,600 Speaker 1: and so somebody else produced a stage version of it 162 00:11:44,679 --> 00:11:49,680 Speaker 1: within months of the book being published, which Stevenson didn't like. 163 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:54,240 Speaker 1: But it was. It was very popular, and it ran 164 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:57,720 Speaker 1: on the in the theater for many, many years in 165 00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:01,920 Speaker 1: many different versions. Was even like a play, huh yes. 166 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:06,320 Speaker 1: And of course the play then became film. That's right 167 00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:11,199 Speaker 1: in the There are some very early silent films of it, um, 168 00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:13,720 Speaker 1: the greatest of which I think is the nineteen twenty 169 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:19,200 Speaker 1: John Barrymore film. Um. But it was extremely popular on 170 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:22,240 Speaker 1: the stage and then on screen. I mean, it's been 171 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:26,200 Speaker 1: made into a film dozens and dozens at times. It's 172 00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:29,480 Speaker 1: not as it's not quite as popular as Sherlock Holmes, 173 00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:31,679 Speaker 1: but it's it's well up there in terms of how 174 00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:36,680 Speaker 1: many films. What kind of doctor was Jackal supposed to 175 00:12:36,720 --> 00:12:40,000 Speaker 1: be at the time, Well, in the in the original 176 00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:44,160 Speaker 1: book version, we don't know. Um, he's a physician. We 177 00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:48,120 Speaker 1: don't know anything about his patients, um, zach expertise. We 178 00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:50,120 Speaker 1: don't know that yet. We don't know anything about that. 179 00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:54,080 Speaker 1: Um he has a laboratory of his own in which 180 00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:57,320 Speaker 1: he's been doing experiments, but that's all we know. In 181 00:12:57,320 --> 00:13:00,480 Speaker 1: the film versions, you know, he's he's made into a 182 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:06,720 Speaker 1: real hero. He's made into a doctor who treats charity cases, 183 00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:10,640 Speaker 1: a doctor who treats children and so on, but that's 184 00:13:10,679 --> 00:13:14,320 Speaker 1: not in the book. And he concocted some kind of 185 00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:19,960 Speaker 1: chemical that he ingested to become mister Hyde. Right, it's vague. 186 00:13:21,559 --> 00:13:26,080 Speaker 1: This is not again just like Frankenstein, where what happens 187 00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:31,320 Speaker 1: to invigorate the creature is left very ambiguous. All we 188 00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:34,600 Speaker 1: know here is certain parts of the chemicals that are here, 189 00:13:34,679 --> 00:13:38,080 Speaker 1: but it's very vague what it is. I know today, Leslie, 190 00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:41,240 Speaker 1: when people run into people who have the appearance of 191 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:44,240 Speaker 1: two personalities one day though now he's next day, they're not. 192 00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:49,120 Speaker 1: People call them doctor Jekyl and mister Hyde. Absolutely is. 193 00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:53,480 Speaker 1: This fascinates me. This fascinates me that certain characters of 194 00:13:53,600 --> 00:14:00,000 Speaker 1: literature have grown stature well beyond the pages of their books. 195 00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:04,040 Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean you listed them off earlier. Sherlanck 196 00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:13,080 Speaker 1: Hoole's Dracula, Frankenstein and Frankenstein's creature. These characters have gotten 197 00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:20,640 Speaker 1: almost mystic status, and it's because they are so important 198 00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:25,520 Speaker 1: in terms of their representation of human ideals and human 199 00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:29,760 Speaker 1: problems that they've taken on a plasticity. I mean, why 200 00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:31,640 Speaker 1: is it. This is where how I got to the 201 00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:34,880 Speaker 1: book in the first place, which is sort of wondering. 202 00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:39,000 Speaker 1: How is it that a little book like this has 203 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:46,440 Speaker 1: had such vitality for almost one hundred and forty years exactly? 204 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:51,480 Speaker 1: And the Doctor Jackal know who mister Hyde was at 205 00:14:51,520 --> 00:14:56,000 Speaker 1: the time of conversion. Yes, yes, it seems like Jekyll 206 00:14:56,520 --> 00:15:01,320 Speaker 1: was sort of present the whole time that this wasn't 207 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:06,280 Speaker 1: you know, this wasn't he wasn't wiped out and replaced 208 00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:10,000 Speaker 1: by Hide. For periods of time, they seem to have coexisted. 209 00:15:10,920 --> 00:15:14,960 Speaker 1: Jackal is very aware of what Hyde's sins were and 210 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:21,360 Speaker 1: is ashamed of them, but eventually, I mean he finds. 211 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:24,560 Speaker 1: The scary part for him, of course, is that he 212 00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:28,280 Speaker 1: stops being able to control this. In the beginning, he 213 00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:33,240 Speaker 1: takes the chemical, he turns into Hide, he indulges his 214 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:37,880 Speaker 1: evil side, probably a little too much, and then he 215 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:40,840 Speaker 1: takes the chemical again and turns back into Doctor Jackal. 216 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:46,480 Speaker 1: And therefore can escape the police that way. But eventually 217 00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:51,600 Speaker 1: what terrifies him is that he loses control Hyde starts 218 00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:57,960 Speaker 1: appearing Yes, interesting, interesting. I won't give away the ending, 219 00:15:58,040 --> 00:16:02,160 Speaker 1: of course, but and this is I mean, it's good 220 00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:04,960 Speaker 1: you said that, George, because this is presented. This is 221 00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:10,120 Speaker 1: a mystery. It's a mystery. The detective is a fairly 222 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:15,360 Speaker 1: colorless lawyer. We won't say anything bad about lawyers, yeah, 223 00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:19,640 Speaker 1: of being one myself. But mister Utterson is trying to 224 00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:23,840 Speaker 1: figure out sort of not only the murder, what happened 225 00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:30,360 Speaker 1: to Sir Danver's carew but also this strange will that 226 00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:33,680 Speaker 1: doctor Jackal has had him made out. Who is Hide? 227 00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:37,680 Speaker 1: Why does he have such an adverse reaction to Hide 228 00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:40,520 Speaker 1: the one time he meets him. It's a real mystery. 229 00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:45,400 Speaker 1: And one of the things that I really appreciated about 230 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:47,880 Speaker 1: the book in spending a lot of time with it, 231 00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:53,240 Speaker 1: was the incredible craftsmanship that Stevenson applied here in building 232 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:55,720 Speaker 1: up the clues. When you when you know the secret 233 00:16:56,200 --> 00:16:59,320 Speaker 1: that Jackal and Hide are the same person, and you 234 00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:03,760 Speaker 1: go back read the book knowing that it's very beautifully done, 235 00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:07,840 Speaker 1: how far into the book before you realize that, well, 236 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:10,080 Speaker 1: at the end. I mean it's only revealed in the 237 00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:15,240 Speaker 1: final chapter. Yeah, and that's pretty dramatic too, It is. 238 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:20,320 Speaker 1: It is. It's very dramatic, and it's like, oh my gosh, 239 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:24,760 Speaker 1: that explains everything. Could he stop taking the chemical? It 240 00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:27,600 Speaker 1: was almost like he became addicted to it? Yes, I think, 241 00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:30,760 Speaker 1: I think there is certain elements of that too. Um 242 00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:36,000 Speaker 1: that it became it became pleasurable. It became a chance 243 00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:41,959 Speaker 1: for him to guiltlessly commit the sentences he wanted to commit, 244 00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:46,440 Speaker 1: at least guiltlessly while he was hide like he could 245 00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:50,919 Speaker 1: always say it wasn't me, that's right, not my fault. 246 00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:54,639 Speaker 1: How close does this echo the real life of Robert 247 00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:58,600 Speaker 1: Louis Stevenson. Oh not at all really. I mean he 248 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:00,919 Speaker 1: wasn't he wasn't a bad verse and he was an artist. 249 00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:04,960 Speaker 1: But I mean he finally did take control and threw 250 00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:09,920 Speaker 1: off the bourgeois life that his family intended for him 251 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:16,760 Speaker 1: and left for Tea and basically lived the final years 252 00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:21,000 Speaker 1: of his life there pursuing his art. So he did 253 00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:24,760 Speaker 1: achieve his dream. He did take control of his personality 254 00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:29,160 Speaker 1: and become who he wanted to become. Listen to more 255 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:32,800 Speaker 1: Coast to Coast am every weeknight at one am Eastern 256 00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:35,480 Speaker 1: and go to Coast to coast am dot com for 257 00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:35,800 Speaker 1: more