1
00:00:09,800 --> 00:00:13,080
Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to another episode of the All Thoughts podcast.

2
00:00:13,119 --> 00:00:16,000
Speaker 1: I'm Tracy Alloway and I'm Joe wasent Thal. Joe, We're

3
00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:18,079
Speaker 1: about to do something we've never done before.

4
00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:21,160
Speaker 2: I'm very excited about this. This is something that I've

5
00:00:21,160 --> 00:00:24,040
Speaker 2: always sort of like wanted to do, maybe even before

6
00:00:24,040 --> 00:00:25,759
Speaker 2: we had a podcast, Like even since I was like

7
00:00:26,040 --> 00:00:30,479
Speaker 2: a little kid watching TV and no like seeing like

8
00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:32,720
Speaker 2: some like news show. Because we're going to talk to

9
00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:34,960
Speaker 2: like someone disguised, right.

10
00:00:34,840 --> 00:00:39,080
Speaker 1: And yes, we are going to talk to an anonymous source,

11
00:00:39,159 --> 00:00:43,160
Speaker 1: an anonymous person, someone who's anonymous online but will also

12
00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:46,159
Speaker 1: be doubly anonymous on this podcast, and we're going to

13
00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:47,640
Speaker 1: be disguising their voice.

14
00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:48,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm really excited.

15
00:00:48,680 --> 00:00:50,080
Speaker 2: I've always wanted to do that because you know, like

16
00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:52,760
Speaker 2: those old like I don't know, like investigative.

17
00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:55,680
Speaker 1: Shows where they have the shadow shadow you see the silhouette.

18
00:00:55,760 --> 00:00:58,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, they sound like a robot and stuff like that,

19
00:00:58,680 --> 00:01:01,400
Speaker 2: and it's like, oh, that's so cool, and you know,

20
00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:02,880
Speaker 2: it's like there's no reason we can't do that.

21
00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:05,720
Speaker 1: Okay, Yes, that is exactly what we're going to do.

22
00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:07,200
Speaker 1: I'll just go ahead and say it. We're going to

23
00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:10,240
Speaker 1: be speaking with high yield Harry, who runs a couple

24
00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:13,240
Speaker 1: of different accounts on social media. He's on Twitter and

25
00:01:13,319 --> 00:01:16,200
Speaker 1: also on Instagram. He also has his own newsletter where

26
00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:21,319
Speaker 1: he's basically chronicling some of the craziness that happens on

27
00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:25,160
Speaker 1: Wall Street in various ways. But also in the credit

28
00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:31,679
Speaker 1: markets specifically, and listeners know that private credit and it's

29
00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:36,120
Speaker 1: sort of differences to traditional public credit markets, So publicly

30
00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:41,360
Speaker 1: issued junk bonds or leverage loans has been a topic

31
00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:45,160
Speaker 1: of interest for us, but in general, credit markets are

32
00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:48,200
Speaker 1: always interesting things, and we have been at a sort

33
00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:51,960
Speaker 1: of interesting juncture in them where last year turned out

34
00:01:51,960 --> 00:01:55,080
Speaker 1: to be a fantastic year for credit if you got

35
00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:58,200
Speaker 1: in at the right time. And that is despite lots

36
00:01:58,200 --> 00:02:01,040
Speaker 1: of people expecting that this would be the area where

37
00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:04,480
Speaker 1: you would see the impact of higher interest rates.

38
00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:05,200
Speaker 3: This was the.

39
00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:09,320
Speaker 1: Frothiest area of the market in some respects, certainly leverage loans,

40
00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:11,320
Speaker 1: and that would be the place where you would see

41
00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:15,440
Speaker 1: trouble from the rate hikes, and yet early twenty twenty

42
00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:16,800
Speaker 1: four haven't really seen that.

43
00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:19,360
Speaker 2: So we talk, obviously, as you said, a lot about credit.

44
00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:21,520
Speaker 2: We talk about a lot in the macro sense, where

45
00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:24,680
Speaker 2: is the investor demand coming from what is the effect

46
00:02:24,760 --> 00:02:29,320
Speaker 2: or not effect of higher interest rates? What is the

47
00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:33,040
Speaker 2: effect of Dodd Frank and shifting lending capacity from banks

48
00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:35,519
Speaker 2: to other non bank institutions, et cetera. And all that's

49
00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:38,120
Speaker 2: great and all that's important, but you can't really like

50
00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:41,240
Speaker 2: understand it just from the sort of like numbers without

51
00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:43,079
Speaker 2: understanding like someone who would just like talk.

52
00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:46,200
Speaker 3: About like the world of like actually like making the

53
00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:47,079
Speaker 3: loans and making the.

54
00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:50,240
Speaker 1: Deals right, the incentives that go into doing this, and

55
00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:53,080
Speaker 1: like who are the players play in this market? Yes, So,

56
00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:56,760
Speaker 1: without further ado, I am very pleased to say we

57
00:02:56,800 --> 00:03:00,440
Speaker 1: have Highyeal Tarry with us. As mentioned, this is his

58
00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:02,880
Speaker 1: real voice. I think it will be obvious when the

59
00:03:02,919 --> 00:03:05,880
Speaker 1: episode comes out. But Harry, thank you so much for

60
00:03:05,919 --> 00:03:06,280
Speaker 1: doing this.

61
00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:09,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, Hi Tracy, Hi Joe. Thanks for having me. You know,

62
00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:12,720
Speaker 4: glad to be the exception, and I'm interested in hearing

63
00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:16,240
Speaker 4: how my voice is going to sound. You might might

64
00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:19,320
Speaker 4: be sounding like the Riddler, you know, holding Gotham for ransom,

65
00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:21,280
Speaker 4: but you know, it'll be interesting to hear how it

66
00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:22,120
Speaker 4: works out.

67
00:03:22,440 --> 00:03:26,000
Speaker 1: So first question, I want to give you the space to,

68
00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:29,520
Speaker 1: you know, explain who you are without giving too much

69
00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:32,600
Speaker 1: away and doxing yourself. But who are you and what

70
00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:33,040
Speaker 1: do you do?

71
00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:37,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, so I'm a junior professional within the world of

72
00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:41,000
Speaker 4: public credit. Uh. You know, I did the typical stint

73
00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:44,640
Speaker 4: from the cell side to credit, and I've experienced wearing

74
00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:48,360
Speaker 4: wearing different hats in terms of public credit and private credit.

75
00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:51,280
Speaker 4: Right now, my focus is on public credit. You know,

76
00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:54,680
Speaker 4: I like the opportunity set there and I'm more of

77
00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:57,640
Speaker 4: a market based individual as opposed to a deal team guy,

78
00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:01,360
Speaker 4: so that that kind of me to public credit. But

79
00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:04,400
Speaker 4: you know, I've dipped my toes in both and have

80
00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:10,000
Speaker 4: done plenty of investment committee memos for both types of offerings.

81
00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:11,760
Speaker 2: I'm really excited about this. I want to get into,

82
00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:14,520
Speaker 2: you know, the world of credit and what you've seen

83
00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:18,400
Speaker 2: from the inside and all of that. But now before

84
00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:22,440
Speaker 2: we do, talk about like your public persona, the high

85
00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:27,480
Speaker 2: Yield Harry persona on Twitter and Instagram, what prompted you

86
00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:32,080
Speaker 2: to adopt this persona and what you know, what come from?

87
00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:33,559
Speaker 3: And why are you one of the only good ones?

88
00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:37,680
Speaker 4: You're two? Time I was I was sitting around in

89
00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:41,679
Speaker 4: mid twenty twenty, COVID was going on, was in my parents'

90
00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:45,000
Speaker 4: basement and you know there was a lot going on

91
00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:48,000
Speaker 4: the credit markets back in like March and April, but

92
00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:50,680
Speaker 4: after that it really settled down and had a lot

93
00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:53,120
Speaker 4: of time on my hands after some you know, more

94
00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:57,360
Speaker 4: stressful like two AM nights, and I decided I really

95
00:04:57,360 --> 00:05:01,320
Speaker 4: wanted to make a finance meme account. Finance memes in

96
00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:05,839
Speaker 4: particular on Instagram really originated back in like twenty seventeen,

97
00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:08,240
Speaker 4: and you know, I would say that was really the

98
00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:11,800
Speaker 4: golden age of finance memes. And I was really as

99
00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:15,520
Speaker 4: a younger guy, enjoying all the memes coming out from

100
00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:19,000
Speaker 4: all those accounts, and I noticed some of those guys

101
00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:21,680
Speaker 4: are starting to post a lot less, so I figured,

102
00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:24,080
Speaker 4: you know, I should try my hand at this. So

103
00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:27,080
Speaker 4: I figured, you know, my my favorite show is Succession.

104
00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:31,160
Speaker 4: You know, I love that show, and I figured, you know,

105
00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:33,800
Speaker 4: I should, I should probably do some memes and incorporate

106
00:05:33,839 --> 00:05:36,760
Speaker 4: Succession into it. And look, that got a lot of

107
00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:42,480
Speaker 4: popularity early on. And you know, as as things developed

108
00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:45,320
Speaker 4: in the credit markets, especially with all the M and

109
00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:48,039
Speaker 4: A activity and craziness going on in like twenty twenty

110
00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:51,239
Speaker 4: one and early twenty two, you know, I think people

111
00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:53,839
Speaker 4: took interest in the into in the account.

112
00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:58,080
Speaker 1: These are popular meme formats, but you're kind of using

113
00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:02,200
Speaker 1: them to say very specific things about the credit markets

114
00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:04,760
Speaker 1: at times. So what is it about the meme format

115
00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:09,560
Speaker 1: that lends itself to sort of credit analysis or credit commentary.

116
00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:11,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a good question. I mean, it's funny how

117
00:06:11,839 --> 00:06:13,920
Speaker 4: niche you can really get, like, you know, you can

118
00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:17,120
Speaker 4: you can get very complex and talk about like liquidation

119
00:06:17,279 --> 00:06:20,159
Speaker 4: preferences or you know, pick for like payment in kind

120
00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:23,520
Speaker 4: and all these all these different nuances from the form

121
00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:26,760
Speaker 4: of a of a viral meme. You know, I'm not

122
00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:29,680
Speaker 4: really sure what drives that psychology, you know, I just

123
00:06:29,720 --> 00:06:32,279
Speaker 4: I just know people people love it and react to

124
00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:36,400
Speaker 4: it in a very unique and niche way. And you know,

125
00:06:36,480 --> 00:06:39,480
Speaker 4: it's it's just really hard to like after that in

126
00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:43,640
Speaker 4: a bottle, I suppose. But you know, as long as

127
00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:46,440
Speaker 4: people are enjoying it and enjoying all these goofy memes

128
00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:49,200
Speaker 4: and videos, and you know, I'm happy to oblige and

129
00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:50,360
Speaker 4: keep the party going.

130
00:06:50,839 --> 00:06:53,160
Speaker 2: You know, I've heard people say things like, you know,

131
00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:56,560
Speaker 2: when you're becoming fluent in a foreign language, when you

132
00:06:56,640 --> 00:06:59,200
Speaker 2: have a dream in that language, And I think there's

133
00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:03,080
Speaker 2: an equivalent where it's like, you know, you actually understand

134
00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:06,839
Speaker 2: an industry well when you get the jokes and the

135
00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:09,120
Speaker 2: memes and the more uniche the better. And you know,

136
00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:11,200
Speaker 2: it's like, because there are meme pages for like literally

137
00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:14,840
Speaker 2: every industry. There's like, you know, trucking memes and then

138
00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:17,600
Speaker 2: truck driver meme pages, and then freight memes and freight

139
00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:21,600
Speaker 2: meme pages. It goes at broker broker meme pages, et cetera.

140
00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:23,040
Speaker 2: And it's like I get someone, you know, I look

141
00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:24,920
Speaker 2: at them because we've done a lot of freight, and

142
00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:25,560
Speaker 2: I like get.

143
00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:26,040
Speaker 3: Half the jokes.

144
00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:28,360
Speaker 2: It's like, Okay, I still have more work to do.

145
00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:31,360
Speaker 1: That's right. When you use the distracted boyfriend meme, it's

146
00:07:31,400 --> 00:07:32,840
Speaker 1: like a proficiency certificate.

147
00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:33,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, it really is.

148
00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:37,200
Speaker 2: It's like, can you make a meme for an industry

149
00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:41,440
Speaker 2: that the industry participants themselves find funny? And most people

150
00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:43,240
Speaker 2: can't do it because they don't know enough. But like

151
00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:46,200
Speaker 2: that is I do think like sort of like the

152
00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:50,280
Speaker 2: test of industry domain expertise. Can you mean, can you

153
00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:52,280
Speaker 2: get the memes and can you make the memes that

154
00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:53,480
Speaker 2: the other people find funny?

155
00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:56,560
Speaker 4: Yeah? Yeah, absolutely, Joe. And you know, I think as

156
00:07:56,920 --> 00:08:00,680
Speaker 4: time has gone along, it's it's taken me a very

157
00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:02,680
Speaker 4: short amount of time to make some of these memes.

158
00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:05,880
Speaker 4: And you know, I wish I had a more useful skill,

159
00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:11,000
Speaker 4: like a skill to economic value. But you know, I

160
00:08:11,920 --> 00:08:13,440
Speaker 4: watch a lot of TV. I'll watch a lot of

161
00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:15,600
Speaker 4: good TV shows and I kind of have like etched

162
00:08:15,640 --> 00:08:17,760
Speaker 4: in my brain, use some of the great quotes or

163
00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:20,280
Speaker 4: some of the great scenes from them, and you know,

164
00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:22,240
Speaker 4: all of a sudden you might get a like no

165
00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:25,120
Speaker 4: Country for Old Men or a Tomorrow meme, you know,

166
00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:28,120
Speaker 4: associated with finance, and you know that's the type of

167
00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:31,640
Speaker 4: stuff that like people people love out of nowhere, and

168
00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:35,400
Speaker 4: you tie that to something niche and you know it'll

169
00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:36,000
Speaker 4: pop off.

170
00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:39,400
Speaker 1: I definitely have more questions on the social media side

171
00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:42,079
Speaker 1: of things. But why don't we talk credit for a bit?

172
00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:44,760
Speaker 1: You know, I'm sure you've been listening to some of

173
00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:47,680
Speaker 1: the episodes that we've done where we're digging into private credit.

174
00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:52,280
Speaker 1: But how would you characterize the difference between working in

175
00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:54,559
Speaker 1: private credit versus working on the public side?

176
00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:55,000
Speaker 3: Question?

177
00:08:56,280 --> 00:08:58,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, so you know there's pros and cons in each.

178
00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:02,720
Speaker 4: You know, I think with private credit, I was, I

179
00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:06,600
Speaker 4: think there's higher compensation for the individuals in there, So

180
00:09:06,760 --> 00:09:09,440
Speaker 4: you know, that's best one thing. But uh, you know,

181
00:09:09,559 --> 00:09:13,559
Speaker 4: I think I think with private credit, you you can

182
00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:16,720
Speaker 4: structure things in a lot of different ways, and you know,

183
00:09:16,880 --> 00:09:19,920
Speaker 4: the the opportunity set is very large.

184
00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:20,600
Speaker 1: Uh.

185
00:09:20,679 --> 00:09:23,160
Speaker 4: You know, you can look at something from a lower

186
00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:25,600
Speaker 4: middle market lens, middle market lens, or you can even

187
00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:28,080
Speaker 4: eat and share in the broadly sy indicated loan market.

188
00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:31,280
Speaker 4: You know, I think with private credit, one one thing

189
00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:33,199
Speaker 4: in particular is you get you can get a lot

190
00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:34,760
Speaker 4: more in the weeds. You know, you can get a

191
00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:38,199
Speaker 4: lot more comprehensive data room, and you know, really get

192
00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:41,080
Speaker 4: in front of the management teams, really make sure uh

193
00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:44,679
Speaker 4: they're answering the questions you need. And you know, I

194
00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:48,920
Speaker 4: think I think the relationship with sponsors is a lot

195
00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:51,800
Speaker 4: more important in the private credit world, where you know,

196
00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:54,280
Speaker 4: in private credit, a lot of our deal flow came

197
00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:58,520
Speaker 4: from sponsor relationships. You know, may may come from a banker,

198
00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:01,520
Speaker 4: but it also may come from a sponsor in terms

199
00:10:01,559 --> 00:10:04,240
Speaker 4: of you know, we want you as the lender that

200
00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:07,760
Speaker 4: we're going to work with, or you know, uh, here's

201
00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:10,520
Speaker 4: ten lenders we're gonna we're gonna pick one or maybe

202
00:10:10,559 --> 00:10:12,959
Speaker 4: we'll pick four, and you guys need to get a

203
00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:15,439
Speaker 4: term sheet in our hands as soon as possible. Uh.

204
00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:17,080
Speaker 4: You know, I think one of the cons with private

205
00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:21,079
Speaker 4: credit though, is I think from a fun standpoint, you're

206
00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:23,840
Speaker 4: a little more concentrated on your bets, and then there's

207
00:10:24,559 --> 00:10:28,959
Speaker 4: illiquidity as well, so you know, when you really make

208
00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:30,559
Speaker 4: an investment, you know, I think you need a lot

209
00:10:30,640 --> 00:10:34,160
Speaker 4: higher conviction given that is, you know, it's not necessarily

210
00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:36,760
Speaker 4: something you can trade out of. So flipping over to

211
00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:40,040
Speaker 4: public credit from a liquidity standpoint, you know, you may

212
00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:44,360
Speaker 4: have one hundred lenders within a broadly syndicated loan, and

213
00:10:44,440 --> 00:10:46,480
Speaker 4: you know, if it's a billion dollar loan, you can

214
00:10:46,520 --> 00:10:49,480
Speaker 4: get decent liquidity there, you know, even if it's like

215
00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:52,480
Speaker 4: a B minus credit. So you know, I think I

216
00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:56,400
Speaker 4: think having that liquidity is a big positive for public

217
00:10:56,440 --> 00:10:59,480
Speaker 4: credit because with private credit, I think it's a lot

218
00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:03,520
Speaker 4: harder to change things or have a loan change hands

219
00:11:03,559 --> 00:11:06,480
Speaker 4: as things go south. But you know, the con with

220
00:11:06,679 --> 00:11:09,760
Speaker 4: public credit, in contrast to what I explained with diligence

221
00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:11,840
Speaker 4: in the data room and you know, getting in front

222
00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:14,240
Speaker 4: of management and what have you, is you know, you

223
00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:16,480
Speaker 4: get on a lot of these lender calls is a

224
00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:20,520
Speaker 4: public credit guy and management will frankly, just toss your

225
00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:23,640
Speaker 4: question to decide or say oh, you know, well we'll

226
00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:26,080
Speaker 4: follow up with you offline about that, or you know,

227
00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:29,120
Speaker 4: say oh, we're not going to disclose that for competitive reasons.

228
00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:32,240
Speaker 4: And you know, some of these questions are things you

229
00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:36,160
Speaker 4: need to know. Is A is a underwriting investor and

230
00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:39,040
Speaker 4: it's unfortunate it doesn't get answered, but that's kind of

231
00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:40,960
Speaker 4: how it's structured. And you know you'll get a data

232
00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:43,160
Speaker 4: room and public credit to that's a lot more thin

233
00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:47,760
Speaker 4: relative to the private credit. And then the last component

234
00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:50,720
Speaker 4: too is you know documentation where you know, I think

235
00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:55,400
Speaker 4: public credit we've seen this massive wave of pub light loans,

236
00:11:55,640 --> 00:11:59,000
Speaker 4: you know, no maintenance covenants and you know, looser docks

237
00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:01,839
Speaker 4: in terms of what a sponsor can and cannot do.

238
00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:06,320
Speaker 4: I think of private credit you can get some stronger

239
00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:09,320
Speaker 4: protection and you know, more more of a heads up

240
00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:11,080
Speaker 4: as things go south. You know, I think, is the

241
00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:15,360
Speaker 4: private credit loans get bigger, there's you know, there's looser documentation,

242
00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:18,360
Speaker 4: but you know for a general middle market or or

243
00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:22,640
Speaker 4: lower loan, you know, I think you're getting stronger, uh documentation.

244
00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:42,640
Speaker 2: M Can I ask a definitional question, is a data

245
00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:46,280
Speaker 2: room a literally a room where you walk into a

246
00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:50,000
Speaker 2: sealed room and look at information and can't take it out.

247
00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:52,560
Speaker 3: Or is it is that? Is it virtual? Like what

248
00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:54,640
Speaker 3: is a data room?

249
00:12:54,840 --> 00:12:57,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, well it's funny, you know, a data room gets

250
00:12:57,679 --> 00:13:00,319
Speaker 4: gets a lot of jokes like that where people meme

251
00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:02,560
Speaker 4: about it being a physical place, but it's actually more

252
00:13:02,559 --> 00:13:04,520
Speaker 4: of a virtual place. You know. It could be on

253
00:13:04,559 --> 00:13:07,400
Speaker 4: a website like syndtrack, or it could be on something

254
00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:11,480
Speaker 4: as simplistic as dropbox, where a lot of data is

255
00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:16,559
Speaker 4: inputed into an online database. So that can be financials,

256
00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:22,320
Speaker 4: can be a confidential information memorandum sim you know, lender presentation,

257
00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:29,240
Speaker 4: legal documents, KPIs, and just a lot of various information

258
00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:33,480
Speaker 4: that helps an investor assess an investment opportunity.

259
00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:34,600
Speaker 3: Can I ask your take?

260
00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:37,440
Speaker 2: This is a question that comes up in every credit conversation,

261
00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:40,400
Speaker 2: and I'm not always satisfied with the answers, But what

262
00:13:40,520 --> 00:13:44,760
Speaker 2: is the attraction for investors to go into private credit?

263
00:13:45,160 --> 00:13:48,000
Speaker 2: Because people say it's correlated, but it's like, yeah, of

264
00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:51,080
Speaker 2: course it's it's like and it's like other returns are higher.

265
00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:52,559
Speaker 2: But you know, as you say, it's a liquid no

266
00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:56,040
Speaker 2: mark to market, how would you characterize the appetite from

267
00:13:56,080 --> 00:13:58,640
Speaker 2: investors to lend via the private credit channel.

268
00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:03,079
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, I think as like sofur and base

269
00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:08,079
Speaker 4: rates have has increased, you're getting a very attractive return.

270
00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:10,280
Speaker 4: And then you know, I think also from the covenant

271
00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:15,280
Speaker 4: standpoint as well, you know that that provides a little

272
00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:20,720
Speaker 4: more structure relative to leverage learns or how you'll bonds potentially.

273
00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:24,040
Speaker 4: And look, I think private equity has shifted a lot

274
00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:28,480
Speaker 4: of deal flow to private credit. So naturally, if you're

275
00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:32,240
Speaker 4: if you're looking to invest in credit, you know you're

276
00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:35,640
Speaker 4: looking to include some private credit into that mix as well.

277
00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:39,760
Speaker 4: You know, I'm still I'm still bullish on private credit.

278
00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:41,200
Speaker 4: You know, I think there's a lot of smart and

279
00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:44,440
Speaker 4: sophisticated investors in the space. But you know, I think

280
00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:46,640
Speaker 4: I think there I think there's also a lot of

281
00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:50,119
Speaker 4: deals that get done on a relationship basis. But ultimately,

282
00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:54,680
Speaker 4: you know, you get pretty pretty decent double digit returns

283
00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:57,960
Speaker 4: and you know you have a first lean position as

284
00:14:57,960 --> 00:15:00,960
Speaker 4: opposed to an equity position, So you know, on an

285
00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:04,160
Speaker 4: LTV basis, I think you're fine with with a lot

286
00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:05,560
Speaker 4: of these names, talk.

287
00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:08,800
Speaker 1: To us more about how a private credit deal actually

288
00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:13,320
Speaker 1: comes into being versus say, a syndicated loan or something

289
00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:16,960
Speaker 1: like that, because I think like the actual process by

290
00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:20,600
Speaker 1: which an issuer chooses to go the public or the

291
00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:24,200
Speaker 1: private route is still something I'm kind of like wrapping

292
00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:27,880
Speaker 1: my head around, like what is the I guess the

293
00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:31,600
Speaker 1: catalyst for going one way or another? Who's like calling

294
00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:34,360
Speaker 1: the shots or who is influential in this process?

295
00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:37,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, so, you know, I think a big thing I

296
00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:41,000
Speaker 4: saw on private credit was people or sponsors would favor

297
00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:44,960
Speaker 4: private credit in situations where banks for someone else is

298
00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:48,200
Speaker 4: moving too slow and you know, they, like private equity,

299
00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:50,800
Speaker 4: would want to partner that moves fast and moves quickly

300
00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:53,600
Speaker 4: with them. So, you know, I think I think that's

301
00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:58,240
Speaker 4: an instance where private credit can come in and you know,

302
00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:03,080
Speaker 4: help provide a level of execution and certainty, which you know,

303
00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:06,960
Speaker 4: I think I think is massive, you know, I I do.

304
00:16:07,160 --> 00:16:10,240
Speaker 4: I do think the public credit market makes a lot

305
00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:13,440
Speaker 4: of sense for a lot of these bigger issuers. But

306
00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:15,680
Speaker 4: but in terms of like you know, on the smaller side,

307
00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:18,880
Speaker 4: I think I think private credit comparably make makes a

308
00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:20,800
Speaker 4: lot of sense. So in terms of how these how

309
00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:23,880
Speaker 4: these deals end up getting done, you know, like I

310
00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:28,200
Speaker 4: mentioned earlier, a lot of this is from relationships. You know,

311
00:16:28,280 --> 00:16:30,600
Speaker 4: might be a banker who gives it out, but it's

312
00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:34,080
Speaker 4: predominantly going to be a sponsor who's who's seeking out

313
00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:37,280
Speaker 4: term sheets from from lenders. Uh. You know, in terms

314
00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:40,440
Speaker 4: of assessing this, it's it's all about you know, myself

315
00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:43,320
Speaker 4: as a junior person and then you know, other other

316
00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:45,920
Speaker 4: people on the totem pole from like VP to director

317
00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:49,520
Speaker 4: m d uh, you know, assessing the data room hot,

318
00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:51,440
Speaker 4: you know, getting in front of the sponsor, make sure

319
00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:54,040
Speaker 4: we're getting what we need answer before we can take

320
00:16:54,080 --> 00:16:59,360
Speaker 4: this to an investment committee, you know, confirming internally whether

321
00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:02,400
Speaker 4: senior individuals and the firm have have interest in continuing

322
00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:04,840
Speaker 4: with the process. Uh. And and you know a lot

323
00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:07,920
Speaker 4: of these a lot of these deals end up end

324
00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:10,000
Speaker 4: up following a timeline where it's like, oh, you know,

325
00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:13,600
Speaker 4: we already have turn sheets or indicated interests from a

326
00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:15,919
Speaker 4: lot of other lenders. We need you to move fast.

327
00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:19,200
Speaker 4: And part of it too is like a sponsor testing

328
00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:21,560
Speaker 4: you of like you know, you you need to move

329
00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:23,320
Speaker 4: fast because we want to work with the partner who

330
00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:26,359
Speaker 4: will move fast with us. So you know, we we

331
00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:29,600
Speaker 4: work pretty hard modeling and deal out, you know, building

332
00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:33,280
Speaker 4: out like an internal memorandum which you know is our

333
00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:37,399
Speaker 4: is our story for the investment, you know, detailing the transaction,

334
00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:40,240
Speaker 4: the sponsor, the company, you know, getting nuts and bolts

335
00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:43,919
Speaker 4: on on how on how the company works. You know,

336
00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:48,040
Speaker 4: any any key risks in mitigans from like a vendor, contract, cost, structure,

337
00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:53,760
Speaker 4: industry standpoint. Uh. And then you know, thinking internally how

338
00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:56,920
Speaker 4: how we want to go about uh the pricing we

339
00:17:57,400 --> 00:18:00,359
Speaker 4: offer and you know, and any other components and in

340
00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:04,040
Speaker 4: look too, I also you know, spend some time uh

341
00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:06,359
Speaker 4: you know, doing a little bit of equity as well,

342
00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:10,520
Speaker 4: and you know, whether we can provide a a lending

343
00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:13,920
Speaker 4: solution that's first lean in conjunction with some other lenders,

344
00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:16,000
Speaker 4: or whether we want to provide something from a one

345
00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:20,320
Speaker 4: stop shop situation where you're also contributing equity to help

346
00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:23,280
Speaker 4: you know, really carry the deal. Is a key component

347
00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:26,959
Speaker 4: when when modeling it out, when when doing research and

348
00:18:27,119 --> 00:18:29,879
Speaker 4: kind of measuring returns and look from there, you go

349
00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:34,360
Speaker 4: to your investment committee. You you you figure out what

350
00:18:34,359 --> 00:18:37,439
Speaker 4: what needs to be addressed, whether the risks have been mitigated,

351
00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:40,840
Speaker 4: and if it has been you're able to go and

352
00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:43,520
Speaker 4: get an indicative term sheet out to out to a

353
00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:46,920
Speaker 4: sponsor if they select you or you and another group

354
00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:50,560
Speaker 4: of lenders. You know, you might find yourself in the Midwest,

355
00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:52,399
Speaker 4: look like on the on the floor of like a

356
00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:56,960
Speaker 4: of a widget manufacturing company and you know, working hand

357
00:18:57,000 --> 00:19:01,080
Speaker 4: in hand with legal the sponsor to to you know,

358
00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:05,680
Speaker 4: really assess the deal and make sure it it closes,

359
00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:08,720
Speaker 4: and you know you feel very comfortable and have a

360
00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:10,080
Speaker 4: strong conviction in your deal.

361
00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:12,600
Speaker 1: Were you ever involved in a deal where you had

362
00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:15,119
Speaker 1: to take back the keys, as they say, and like

363
00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:19,280
Speaker 1: you know, you end up running the widget manufacturer accidentally?

364
00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:21,520
Speaker 4: No, I haven't, And I think I think that's a

365
00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:25,919
Speaker 4: function of the current credit environment where things are still okay,

366
00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:28,800
Speaker 4: you know, if we've had a massive rise in interest rates,

367
00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:30,679
Speaker 4: I think it takes a while for that to like

368
00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:34,199
Speaker 4: filter out. I think those taking the key situations are

369
00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:37,280
Speaker 4: going to be an interesting storyline over the next few years,

370
00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:39,840
Speaker 4: you know, I think maybe to get ahead of myself,

371
00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:42,960
Speaker 4: you know, I think pick and payment in kind is

372
00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:45,280
Speaker 4: a way right now for a lot of sponsors and

373
00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:48,760
Speaker 4: lenders to address some of these you know, twenty twenty

374
00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:53,080
Speaker 4: one or deals like that that that were a little

375
00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:56,399
Speaker 4: weaker and you know, give it a little bit of

376
00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:59,520
Speaker 4: of a longer timeline to run. So you know, I

377
00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:03,320
Speaker 4: think the moment we're we're we're going to see less

378
00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:06,639
Speaker 4: key taking situations. You know, I feel I feel a

379
00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:09,200
Speaker 4: little comfortable with twenty four. It's just going to be interesting,

380
00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:12,560
Speaker 4: you know, in twenty twenty five and onwards, how many

381
00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:14,440
Speaker 4: key taking situations we get?

382
00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:18,600
Speaker 1: Yeah? What do you think also about some of the

383
00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:22,840
Speaker 1: big investment banks now getting into private credit, because this

384
00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:25,639
Speaker 1: seems to be the irony, right, It's like private credit

385
00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:29,280
Speaker 1: kind of became a thing because banks were retrenching from

386
00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:31,879
Speaker 1: lending or it was harder for them to lend. But

387
00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:35,280
Speaker 1: now they're getting into it, and also like they're sort

388
00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:39,000
Speaker 1: of competing with I guess their own syndicated bond and

389
00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:41,159
Speaker 1: loan businesses. It just seems kind of funny.

390
00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:44,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a little bizarre because it's pretty much balance

391
00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:49,040
Speaker 4: sheet lending. So you know, it's it's a little interesting.

392
00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:53,440
Speaker 4: You know. I I have a harder time imagining, you know,

393
00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:57,639
Speaker 4: banks wanting to hold on to a lot of debt.

394
00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:00,159
Speaker 4: You know, I think I think the syndication market it

395
00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:03,800
Speaker 4: works works really well from like a risk management standpoint,

396
00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:06,280
Speaker 4: but it'll be you know, it'll be interesting to see

397
00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:09,200
Speaker 4: how how it develops. And you know, I don't even

398
00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:11,040
Speaker 4: know if I want to call it private credit if

399
00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:12,959
Speaker 4: it's a bank doing right, it's just kind of like

400
00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:14,320
Speaker 4: it's kind of like bank lending.

401
00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:17,360
Speaker 2: Is the idea that they're going to create pools of

402
00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:22,120
Speaker 2: capital to lend that aren't there, like balance sheet capital,

403
00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:24,679
Speaker 2: that they're going to get out like essentially create some

404
00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:28,760
Speaker 2: vehicle for outside lend or outside LPs or investors, and

405
00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:31,640
Speaker 2: then the bank essentially becomes the conduit for it.

406
00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:34,679
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, I mean there are there are some like

407
00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:37,480
Speaker 4: balance sheet lenders, but you know, there are also a

408
00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:41,000
Speaker 4: lot of banks looking at JV partners as well. You know,

409
00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:43,040
Speaker 4: it'll be interesting to see how it develops. I think,

410
00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:45,040
Speaker 4: like one argument for it is like maybe you can

411
00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:50,919
Speaker 4: graduate people from like middle middle market lending to you know,

412
00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:54,400
Speaker 4: larger lending, you know, as as a company grows over time,

413
00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:56,199
Speaker 4: and you know, maybe that's a good way to have

414
00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:59,960
Speaker 4: relationship management, if you know. I cause I think, like history,

415
00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:03,800
Speaker 4: you've seen a lot of like middle market names graduate

416
00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:07,000
Speaker 4: over time to like the broadly syndicated loan market.

417
00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:10,879
Speaker 2: You mentioned that for professionals in this space, private credit

418
00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:15,359
Speaker 2: is currently more lucrative than public credit is that basically

419
00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:18,960
Speaker 2: a function of the necessity of things like relationships or

420
00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:23,040
Speaker 2: the skill level to craft the right you know, covenant

421
00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:27,600
Speaker 2: structure for the deal. Thats just say, more importance of relationships,

422
00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:30,400
Speaker 2: more importance of being able to create a bespoke covenant

423
00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:33,959
Speaker 2: structure that allows the people in the space to make

424
00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:34,480
Speaker 2: more money.

425
00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:37,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, I feel like I've seen a lot

426
00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:42,240
Speaker 4: of investment banking analysts and associates head over to private

427
00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:45,000
Speaker 4: credit as opposed to them heading over to public credit. So,

428
00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:47,040
Speaker 4: you know, I think that's the function of it where

429
00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:50,880
Speaker 4: you know, that skill set they had an ib makes

430
00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:54,199
Speaker 4: more stents than private credit because you know, it is

431
00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:57,080
Speaker 4: like very similar to what they were doing before in banking.

432
00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:00,679
Speaker 4: So you know, I think that's a key driver. I

433
00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:04,520
Speaker 4: think fun growth is a key driver. You know. I

434
00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:08,560
Speaker 4: think the returns I think a m growth are are

435
00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:10,520
Speaker 4: key drivers in the moment. And look, I think with

436
00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:15,639
Speaker 4: public credit to you know, compensation varies widely depending on

437
00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:20,200
Speaker 4: where you are, and you know, some some public credit

438
00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:22,840
Speaker 4: can be a lot more sleep and night credit as

439
00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:25,280
Speaker 4: opposed to private credit, which I think, you know needs

440
00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:29,199
Speaker 4: significant diligence and given the like ill liquidity, you know,

441
00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:32,320
Speaker 4: you're really you're really digging in there and spending a

442
00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:33,640
Speaker 4: lot of hours on it. Well, I think I think,

443
00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:36,199
Speaker 4: I think a lot of public credit. You know, if

444
00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:39,760
Speaker 4: if it's more hedge fund oriented or long short oriented,

445
00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:42,160
Speaker 4: and I think that that compensates higher. But if there's

446
00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:44,280
Speaker 4: a little more sleepy of a fun then you know,

447
00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:45,280
Speaker 4: I think they'll comp lower.

448
00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:50,360
Speaker 1: You actually do a compensation survey on your newsletter, I think.

449
00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:53,360
Speaker 1: And I find this a really interesting aspect of some

450
00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:57,560
Speaker 1: of the anonymous finance accounts now that they are you know,

451
00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:02,639
Speaker 1: either collecting or being given and information from people in

452
00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:07,640
Speaker 1: the industry, primarily I think, like younger people in the industry.

453
00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:11,679
Speaker 1: And this seems to be a big change on Wall Street. Like,

454
00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:13,679
Speaker 1: you know, there used to be if you worked at Goldman,

455
00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:17,520
Speaker 1: maybe you talk to other Goldman people a little bit

456
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:21,399
Speaker 1: about comp but everything was like kind of secret, like

457
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:24,879
Speaker 1: there wasn't a lot of transparency on Wall Street. But

458
00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:28,520
Speaker 1: it feels like that's changing, even though it's just to

459
00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:30,800
Speaker 1: be clear, it's not the banks themselves that are driving

460
00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:35,200
Speaker 1: this transparency. It's like the actual workers and primarily the

461
00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:35,960
Speaker 1: junior ones.

462
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:38,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, you know, I think that's one of

463
00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:42,000
Speaker 4: the better parts of running this platform is just the

464
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:45,639
Speaker 4: compensation transparency that's been able to come out of this,

465
00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:48,560
Speaker 4: especially in credit because you know, I think with investment

466
00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:52,200
Speaker 4: banking you can kind of figure out structure of where

467
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:54,840
Speaker 4: analysts and associates get paid out. But you know, once

468
00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:58,280
Speaker 4: you get once you start getting like credit associate and

469
00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:02,000
Speaker 4: credit VP compensation level by city, you know, you can

470
00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:04,399
Speaker 4: provide a lot of transparency. And I've had a lot

471
00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:06,480
Speaker 4: of people come to me and say, you know, they've

472
00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:10,160
Speaker 4: used it in terms of making sure they're getting compensated

473
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:12,800
Speaker 4: appropriately when when getting a new job or or something

474
00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:15,200
Speaker 4: along that line. So you know, I think there there's

475
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:19,480
Speaker 4: also some private equity compensation in there too within the survey.

476
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:21,640
Speaker 4: And you know, I run this like every March, and

477
00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:23,320
Speaker 4: you know, I think you'll learn a lot from it.

478
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:25,600
Speaker 4: So I'm excited to see what I find out in

479
00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:28,280
Speaker 4: the next month, month and a half or so. But

480
00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:31,280
Speaker 4: you know, I think you can you can really learn

481
00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:33,120
Speaker 4: a lot from it. And I think I think over

482
00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:37,760
Speaker 4: time is you know, more followers increasingly become more senior

483
00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:40,880
Speaker 4: is going to be really interesting sort of provide more

484
00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:44,560
Speaker 4: transparency beyond just the junior level and really dig into

485
00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:47,720
Speaker 4: like Okay, you know, I'm a mid level professional. What

486
00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:49,840
Speaker 4: should I be making? You know, what type of carry

487
00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:52,320
Speaker 4: interest should I be having? Even And you know, I

488
00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:55,080
Speaker 4: think that type of granularity is going to be good

489
00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:57,560
Speaker 4: because I think, especially like the mid level, you know,

490
00:25:57,640 --> 00:25:59,359
Speaker 4: there's there's not much transparency.

491
00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:01,760
Speaker 3: Are you well with coming on and Tracy?

492
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:04,000
Speaker 2: Should we do a lots more in March with the

493
00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:06,000
Speaker 2: results of the survey?

494
00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:06,480
Speaker 1: Yeah?

495
00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:07,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, come back.

496
00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:09,359
Speaker 2: Can we have you back on in March and do

497
00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:13,320
Speaker 2: a little mini episode with reveal the survey results?

498
00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:16,400
Speaker 4: Yeah? Yeah, let's see what happens. Yeah, it comes out,

499
00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:17,760
Speaker 4: It comes out by my news letter.

500
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:38,960
Speaker 2: But yeah, no, you mentioned that you started the account

501
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:41,560
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty. You know a lot of people at

502
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:44,480
Speaker 2: home doing things on the internet. One of the things

503
00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:48,119
Speaker 2: that I've come to appreciate about that era or twenty

504
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:52,040
Speaker 2: twenty in particularly twenty twenty one, very evident in say

505
00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:55,560
Speaker 2: like tech investing, that like there was just this explosion

506
00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:58,639
Speaker 2: of deal flow, like particularly private tech investing. So like

507
00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:01,879
Speaker 2: people you maybe someone had a sub stack, maybe they

508
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:04,920
Speaker 2: had ten thousand followers on Twitter, and suddenly they could

509
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:07,720
Speaker 2: like plug and play into angel list and they started

510
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:11,600
Speaker 2: like signing over Zoom and docu sign angel deals and

511
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:14,080
Speaker 2: then I sort of live later on like realized it

512
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:17,320
Speaker 2: was it just tech that like in real estate transaction,

513
00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:19,919
Speaker 2: it's a very similar phenomenon that a lot of people

514
00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:22,760
Speaker 2: got in. You know, these sort of crazy years and

515
00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:26,800
Speaker 2: syndications of like hey, let's sort of you know, buy

516
00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:29,080
Speaker 2: up apartment buildings and the sun belt and stuff, and

517
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:31,360
Speaker 2: so you had all these like newcomers. Can you talk

518
00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:34,639
Speaker 2: a little bit about like what twenty twenty and twenty

519
00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:38,280
Speaker 2: twenty one was like from the private from the credit

520
00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:41,320
Speaker 2: perspective or the private credit perspective, those sort of like

521
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:44,720
Speaker 2: those sort of like crazy high speed like go go years.

522
00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:48,040
Speaker 4: I think during that timeframe I can speak a little

523
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:50,600
Speaker 4: more to like public credit sure as opposed as opposed

524
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:53,280
Speaker 4: to private credit. But you know, I think there was

525
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:56,160
Speaker 4: there was a lot of deal flow in twenty one,

526
00:27:56,240 --> 00:28:00,320
Speaker 4: and you know, a lot of LBOs came to the market,

527
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 4: you know, I think, I think a little bit later

528
00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:06,240
Speaker 4: in twenty twenty as well. Yeah, and you know, you

529
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:09,240
Speaker 4: you had this massive rush of deals. You had investment

530
00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:12,439
Speaker 4: bankers getting really worked to the work to the brim,

531
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:14,800
Speaker 4: and you know that provided like a lot of a

532
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:17,520
Speaker 4: lot of compensation increases where you know a lot of

533
00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 4: people across the industry at a junior level where all

534
00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:22,359
Speaker 4: of a sudden getting like a twenty five k bump,

535
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:27,800
Speaker 4: fifty fifty k bump, you know, great bonuses, and you know,

536
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:30,400
Speaker 4: I think that was that was great in terms of

537
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:34,399
Speaker 4: enhancing junior compensation, but you know also in terms of

538
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:38,120
Speaker 4: deal flow. You know, you had a lot of deals

539
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:43,920
Speaker 4: get done at at low rates in high multiples, and

540
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:46,600
Speaker 4: you know, we're competitive processes and you need to look

541
00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:48,160
Speaker 4: at some of these deals and be like, you know,

542
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:50,760
Speaker 4: DoD GEZ, like do we do we really want to

543
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:53,240
Speaker 4: underwrite this? You know this kind isn't good and look,

544
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:55,400
Speaker 4: I think the biggest thing from this, and you know,

545
00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:58,440
Speaker 4: the more challenging part of being a credit investor is

546
00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:01,040
Speaker 4: you looked at a lot of these twenty twenty twenty

547
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:05,280
Speaker 4: twenty one financials and yeah, this company have a gangbuster year,

548
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:08,479
Speaker 4: you know, and do an amazing job, and then they

549
00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:12,040
Speaker 4: come to the market to refinance or take a dividend

550
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:15,040
Speaker 4: or something like that, and then look, all all of

551
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:17,960
Speaker 4: a sudden, you have all these people do these deals

552
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 4: and then you realize it was a COVID bump, Like

553
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:23,280
Speaker 4: you know, you realize everyone was stuck at home, and

554
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:27,120
Speaker 4: there's you know, there's all these companies that had one

555
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:30,480
Speaker 4: time big, big events and then now financials are down

556
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:34,480
Speaker 4: like significantly relative to heights. And look, that makes up

557
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:36,640
Speaker 4: a lot of the distressed market you see in public

558
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:40,080
Speaker 4: credit at the moment. And I think this is probably

559
00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:43,240
Speaker 4: a similar story on the private credit issue side as well.

560
00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:46,600
Speaker 4: And you know, I definitely screened a lot of deals

561
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:49,880
Speaker 4: that had like a gangbuster twenty twenty or twenty twenty

562
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:53,400
Speaker 4: one and then you know, really fell off, and you know,

563
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:55,280
Speaker 4: you don't want to catch a falling knife there. I

564
00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:57,120
Speaker 4: guess it's easy to say this in hindsight, but not

565
00:29:57,160 --> 00:29:59,160
Speaker 4: a lot of people actually did. It was you know,

566
00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:02,160
Speaker 4: to kind of spot the trends of like, oh, you know,

567
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:06,480
Speaker 4: this isn't really sustainable, and you know, go and invest

568
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:08,480
Speaker 4: in this type of deal, because you know, if you did,

569
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:12,240
Speaker 4: now you're looking at a distressed or more challenging situation

570
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:15,040
Speaker 4: and something that looks a lot worse relative you're underwright.

571
00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:17,680
Speaker 4: And I think there's a lot of like market participants

572
00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:22,960
Speaker 4: who are now dealing with this hangover relative to twenty

573
00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:24,920
Speaker 4: twenty one, and you know, our stuff with a lot

574
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:28,600
Speaker 4: of distress names and you know, worse situations or you know,

575
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:30,800
Speaker 4: took a hit when they when they didn't really need.

576
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:35,040
Speaker 1: To speaking of things not being sustainable. Does it feel

577
00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:38,640
Speaker 1: like the balance of power is starting to shift? I

578
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:42,200
Speaker 1: guess away from the junior analyst because this was also

579
00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:46,920
Speaker 1: a hallmark of the twenty twenty twenty twenty one boom times. Right,

580
00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:52,080
Speaker 1: everyone was working super hard, there was so much deal flow,

581
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:55,959
Speaker 1: and that kind of gave a lot of employees the

582
00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:59,800
Speaker 1: fire power to start pushing back against some of their

583
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:03,160
Speaker 1: working conditions. So, for instance, we saw the I guess

584
00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:08,800
Speaker 1: infamous at this point Goldman presentation where I can't remember

585
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:11,320
Speaker 1: if it was interns or the analysts, but they basically

586
00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:15,920
Speaker 1: presented or they disseminated a presentation to Goldman senior management,

587
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:20,200
Speaker 1: serving their working conditions, their work hours, and making the

588
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:23,760
Speaker 1: point that things were getting worse and they were even

589
00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:26,640
Speaker 1: having to work on Saturdays, which historically was something that

590
00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:30,520
Speaker 1: was preserved on Wall Street. Is that starting to shift

591
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:33,720
Speaker 1: now as interest rates go higher and maybe deal flow

592
00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:36,480
Speaker 1: has ebbed a little bit in twenty well not a

593
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:38,560
Speaker 1: little bit significantly in twenty twenty three.

594
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:41,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, I think that dynamics started changing even

595
00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:44,000
Speaker 4: in like twenty twenty two. And you know, shout out

596
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:47,720
Speaker 4: to Liquidity on the yeah on the thoo for getting

597
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:50,240
Speaker 4: that GS presentation out there. I think he got it

598
00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:52,880
Speaker 4: DM to him and he just posted it, and you know,

599
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:56,040
Speaker 4: that really helped spark the movement of people getting paid more.

600
00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:58,720
Speaker 4: I think this dynamic started change when when deal flow

601
00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:01,080
Speaker 4: went down in twenty two, and you know, I think

602
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:03,920
Speaker 4: that's when you first started seeing cuts amongst the junior level.

603
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:06,720
Speaker 4: You know, there's been some private equity and private credit

604
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:09,840
Speaker 4: junior cuts in twenty three. But I think I think

605
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:12,640
Speaker 4: a lot of the people that ended up worse off

606
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:15,040
Speaker 4: for people who kind of stuck around and investment banking

607
00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:17,640
Speaker 4: a little too long. You know a lot of people

608
00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:21,240
Speaker 4: who didn't get that like associate offer after their two

609
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:24,800
Speaker 4: years and in banking, or you know, I like, I

610
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:27,280
Speaker 4: know people that got zeroed on their on their comp

611
00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:31,720
Speaker 4: from a bonus standpoint, or you know, they got bonus

612
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:33,840
Speaker 4: and like you know, they worked like ninety hours and

613
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:36,280
Speaker 4: got like a twenty k thirty k bonus, which you

614
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:38,640
Speaker 4: know is a lot less than what you can find

615
00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:42,040
Speaker 4: in public credit private credits. So you know, I think

616
00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:47,000
Speaker 4: I think people forgot that, like twenty one was an

617
00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:49,760
Speaker 4: extraordinary year, and you know, not how you want to

618
00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:55,920
Speaker 4: measure future compensation. So yeah, look there's cycrutality, and you know,

619
00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:58,600
Speaker 4: I think if we don't get deal flow ramping back

620
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:02,440
Speaker 4: up in twenty four, then I think things get increasingly challenged.

621
00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:04,520
Speaker 4: And look, I think most people are back in the

622
00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:07,560
Speaker 4: office at least three days a week, if not four.

623
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:10,040
Speaker 4: You know, I'm not I'm not a fan of five

624
00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:12,760
Speaker 4: days in but you know, I think I think I

625
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:18,120
Speaker 4: think the tide certainly has turned, and you know, but look,

626
00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:20,320
Speaker 4: the reality is, it's it's so much better than it

627
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:24,800
Speaker 4: was in like twenty nineteen. You know, it's so hats

628
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:26,080
Speaker 4: off from that perspective.

629
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:28,960
Speaker 2: Wait, just real quickly, I guess you're not a fan

630
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:30,520
Speaker 2: of five days in the office.

631
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:31,640
Speaker 3: Just I'm just curious.

632
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:34,959
Speaker 2: Do you notice any difference of working in the office

633
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:39,680
Speaker 2: first not and on productivity, on how the team operates whatever.

634
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:43,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, you know, I think I think it depends. Look,

635
00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:45,600
Speaker 4: I think if you if you're in a deal team structure,

636
00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:47,600
Speaker 4: like if you're in private credit, I think it's I

637
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:49,320
Speaker 4: think it makes a lot more sense to be in

638
00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:52,400
Speaker 4: the office. But if you're styled off like if you're

639
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:54,760
Speaker 4: in public credit, if you if you're covering a certain

640
00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:59,400
Speaker 4: industry and most of your communication is with your portfolio managers.

641
00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:03,480
Speaker 4: That and I think I think remote work really kind

642
00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:06,560
Speaker 4: of favors that, you know, I think I think to

643
00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:08,759
Speaker 4: be fair too, a lot of people live in like

644
00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:11,840
Speaker 4: small Manhattan apartments, so you know, being in the office,

645
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:14,200
Speaker 4: especially when you know it might be anywhere from like

646
00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:16,359
Speaker 4: ten minutes to thirty minutes away, it is that big

647
00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:20,360
Speaker 4: a deal. But you know, I am kind of bullish

648
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:23,560
Speaker 4: remote work over time because I think for me in particular, right,

649
00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:25,920
Speaker 4: like I you know, I do my job, and then

650
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:28,560
Speaker 4: I also do this high old Harry stuff off to

651
00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:31,160
Speaker 4: the side, and you know that that involves a lot

652
00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:33,800
Speaker 4: of work in my apartment. And you know, I'm certainly

653
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:35,759
Speaker 4: productive when I when I'm doing that.

654
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:39,840
Speaker 1: Joe's trying to bait me into another rant against return

655
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:41,799
Speaker 1: to office. I'm not going to do it, Joe, don't know.

656
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:44,200
Speaker 2: The only reason I asked is because, like it's such

657
00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:47,680
Speaker 2: a charged topic that the only person I would ever

658
00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:49,880
Speaker 2: trust to get a good answer is someone who's anonymous.

659
00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:53,560
Speaker 1: Wait, but Harry, actually you brought up exactly what I

660
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:56,960
Speaker 1: wanted to ask you next, what are the logistics of

661
00:34:57,040 --> 00:35:01,040
Speaker 1: actually running an anonymous social media account while working in

662
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:04,280
Speaker 1: the industry, And do you ever have weird situations where

663
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:08,319
Speaker 1: like you're sat in the office and someone brings up

664
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:09,520
Speaker 1: one of your memes.

665
00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:11,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, it's it's tough to get

666
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:14,560
Speaker 4: too too granular on that, but you know, I have

667
00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:16,839
Speaker 4: I have a lot of people who I work with

668
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:19,560
Speaker 4: or I have worked with, who follow the account, who

669
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:21,960
Speaker 4: like my stuff all the time, who are subscribed to

670
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:27,279
Speaker 4: my newsletter. So you know, that's that's always that's always interesting.

671
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:29,359
Speaker 4: And you know, I think it's I think it's humbling too.

672
00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:31,800
Speaker 4: And like someone I looked up to at like an

673
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:34,759
Speaker 4: analyst level, who's like a little bit older than me,

674
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:37,239
Speaker 4: like likes my stuff and you know, says, oh this

675
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:40,040
Speaker 4: is good or whatever, like you know, that's that's definitely

676
00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:43,080
Speaker 4: humbling for me. But but yeah, you know it is.

677
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:47,680
Speaker 4: It is a little uh challenging to try to navigate that,

678
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:49,920
Speaker 4: you know, especially when someone makes a joke who're just

679
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:51,400
Speaker 4: kind of like wondering out. You know, I think I'm

680
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:53,440
Speaker 4: pretty sure I made that joke on social media like

681
00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:54,239
Speaker 4: a few days ago.

682
00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:59,359
Speaker 1: Hild Harry that was so much fun. Thank you, yeah,

683
00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:02,879
Speaker 1: thank you for coming on and letting us disguise your

684
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:06,600
Speaker 1: voice and sound like the Riddler or Robot. I actually

685
00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:08,520
Speaker 1: don't know what it's going to turn out like, but

686
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:11,399
Speaker 1: I'm really looking forward to listening, so thank you so much.

687
00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:12,600
Speaker 4: Thanks for having me.

688
00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:28,040
Speaker 1: Up, Joe. That was so much fun. I have to ask,

689
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:29,360
Speaker 1: do you have a Burner account?

690
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:32,359
Speaker 3: I have an alt? I've said it.

691
00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:35,799
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, it's where I post really controversial takes, like

692
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:38,200
Speaker 2: my view on the Jones Act and work from home

693
00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:41,000
Speaker 2: and return to office, things that, you know, really things

694
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:43,440
Speaker 2: that I would not want to be associated with publicly.

695
00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:48,319
Speaker 1: I've I've often been tempted to start an anonymous alt,

696
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:51,000
Speaker 1: but I haven't done it. I am on Reddit anonymously,

697
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:52,600
Speaker 1: but I think that's like, that's pretty normal.

698
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:53,799
Speaker 3: That was really fun though.

699
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:56,759
Speaker 2: I really enjoyed that conversation and just sort of like

700
00:36:56,800 --> 00:36:58,680
Speaker 2: hearing about it from the insids, especially the fact that

701
00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:02,160
Speaker 2: he's done both private and and public credit. I thought

702
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:05,160
Speaker 2: it was really interesting this idea, and that hadn't clicked

703
00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:06,479
Speaker 2: to me before. But it makes a lot of sense

704
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:10,640
Speaker 2: that private credit is more like ib skills investment banking

705
00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:13,640
Speaker 2: skills and that public credit is probably just like more

706
00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:17,040
Speaker 2: like traditional analyst skills, where you're looking at a balance

707
00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:18,560
Speaker 2: sheet and you're like, Okay, are they going to be

708
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:20,960
Speaker 2: able to make this payment? And the idea like that

709
00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:25,080
Speaker 2: is the different skill dimensions. They're not something that had

710
00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:26,440
Speaker 2: really clicked to me before.

711
00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:30,160
Speaker 1: Very much relationship building in private credit. But I would

712
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:32,319
Speaker 1: just push back against that a little bit, which is like,

713
00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:37,200
Speaker 1: if you're syndicating deals in the public market, there is

714
00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:39,239
Speaker 1: an element of that because you have to build the

715
00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:41,279
Speaker 1: consortium and you have to you know, talk to your

716
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:45,160
Speaker 1: potential investors. But yeah, absolutely it feels more ib like.

717
00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:47,879
Speaker 1: I also thought it was interesting what he was saying

718
00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:52,080
Speaker 1: about some of the pressure on speeds of deals. So

719
00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:55,000
Speaker 1: the idea that like, well, maybe a company is going

720
00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:57,399
Speaker 1: to want to do a private credit deal because it's

721
00:37:57,480 --> 00:38:00,239
Speaker 1: faster than talking to a bank, or the bank is

722
00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:04,160
Speaker 1: taking too long to you know, tick various risk management

723
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:06,240
Speaker 1: or regulatory boxes or whatever.

724
00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:08,359
Speaker 3: It does feel like.

725
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:12,320
Speaker 2: In business there is like a real value to being

726
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:16,000
Speaker 2: able to like produce cash at any time at any

727
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:18,359
Speaker 2: at a moment's notice, And it feels like, you know,

728
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:21,480
Speaker 2: it's like the rest of us, you know, plead So

729
00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:24,920
Speaker 2: if we want to like buy a property. You know,

730
00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:26,520
Speaker 2: it's like you go to a bank and you fill

731
00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:29,200
Speaker 2: out hundreds of pages of paperwork and then you hear

732
00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:32,280
Speaker 2: back and then maybe months later it gets approved. Whereas

733
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:34,240
Speaker 2: if you actually want to do business, if you actually

734
00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:36,359
Speaker 2: want to do deals in a real way, you really

735
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:39,000
Speaker 2: need to have that relationship where it's like, hey, it's

736
00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:42,000
Speaker 2: me Joe. Hey Tracy, I need a million dollars because

737
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:45,160
Speaker 2: there's an opportunity to buy this self storage space on Monday,

738
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:46,960
Speaker 2: and you say, yeah, I know who you are, Joe.

739
00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:51,040
Speaker 2: Here's the million dollars. And if you have that relationship,

740
00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:54,120
Speaker 2: that's incredibly valuable versus the person that sort of has

741
00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:55,200
Speaker 2: to go to the traditional route.

742
00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:57,640
Speaker 1: Hey, Joe, I need a million dollars to buy a

743
00:38:57,760 --> 00:38:59,080
Speaker 1: chain of self storage units.

744
00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:00,960
Speaker 3: No, I'm not lending it to you, Tracy.

745
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:02,600
Speaker 2: I don't know your track record, and I think and

746
00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:04,319
Speaker 2: I think self storage is overvalued.

747
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:07,160
Speaker 1: Okay, fair enough. Shall we leave it there.

748
00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:07,960
Speaker 3: Let's leave it there.

749
00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:11,360
Speaker 1: This has been another episode of the Authoughts podcast. You

750
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:13,560
Speaker 1: can follow me at Tracy Allaway.

751
00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:15,840
Speaker 2: And I'm Joe Wisenthal. You can follow me at the Stalwart.

752
00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:19,680
Speaker 2: Follow our guest High Yield Harry. He's at High Yield Harry.

753
00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:23,839
Speaker 2: Follow our producers Carmen Rodriguez at Carmen Arman, dash Ol

754
00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:27,160
Speaker 2: Bennett at Dashbot and kel Brooks at kel Brooks. And

755
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:29,839
Speaker 2: thank you to our producer Moses Ondam. For more Odd

756
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:32,800
Speaker 2: Lots content, go to Bloomberg dot com slash odd Lots

757
00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:36,680
Speaker 2: where with a blog, transcripts and a newsletter, and you

758
00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:39,000
Speaker 2: can chat with fellow listeners twenty four to seven in

759
00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:42,319
Speaker 2: the discord discord dot gg slash odlines.

760
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:45,640
Speaker 1: And if you enjoy Odd Lots, if you want us

761
00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:48,520
Speaker 1: to have Harry back on to talk about his comp survey,

762
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:51,520
Speaker 1: then please leave us a positive review on your favorite

763
00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:56,440
Speaker 1: podcast platform. And remember you can listen to Oddlots episodes

764
00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:59,319
Speaker 1: ad free if you're a Bloomberg subscriber. All you have

765
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:02,880
Speaker 1: to do is connect to your Bloomberg account to Apple Podcasts.

766
00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:03,920
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening,