Speaker 1: There Are No Girls on the Internet. As a production
Speaker 1: of My Heart Radio and Unboss Creative, I'm Brigittad and
Speaker 1: this is There Are No Girls on the Internet. In
Speaker 1: the wake of the Astro World tragedy, a music festival
Speaker 1: lead and headlined by rapper Travis Scott that left ten
Speaker 1: dead and hundreds more injured, TikTok exploded in conspiracy theories
Speaker 1: that the event was actually a Satanic ritual for people
Speaker 1: who are being intentionally sacrificed. After the tragedy, I was
Speaker 1: glued to my phone watching increasingly horrifying firsthand accounts of
Speaker 1: young people who were there, and pretty quickly these videos
Speaker 1: went from people sharing stories of overcrowding and two little
Speaker 1: staff with two little training and other man made elements
Speaker 1: to disaster, two people saying they felt they had been
Speaker 1: hypnotized into a trance by the dark music, or speculating
Speaker 1: that there were clues hidden in plain sight that the
Speaker 1: festival was actually part of a Satanic ritual. Because of
Speaker 1: the way TikTok functions continuously surfacing new videos and users
Speaker 1: is for you page, I didn't even really have much
Speaker 1: control over the increasingly more extreme videos I was consuming.
Speaker 1: It raises the question, in the wake of a tragedy
Speaker 1: like Astro World, what responsibility do platforms like TikTok have
Speaker 1: to not amplify content that pushes conspiracy theories. Now, satanic
Speaker 1: panic is nothing new. The moral panic where thousands of
Speaker 1: unsubstantiated allegations of Satanic ritual abuse and sacrifice have been
Speaker 1: around since the eighties, but researcher Abby Richards says it
Speaker 1: never really went away. My name is Abby Richards, and
Speaker 1: I am a TikToker and a TikTok disinformation researcher. I've
Speaker 1: seen so many TikTok sort of claiming that this what
Speaker 1: happened in Houston was like a rich, realistic sacrifice by Satanists.
Speaker 1: And you know, I guess my first question is what
Speaker 1: kind of imagery or iconography or people pointing to to
Speaker 1: support these outlandish claims. There was a bunge. I think
Speaker 1: a lot of it was like there was a portal
Speaker 1: on the stage and I was writing kind of on
Speaker 1: the stage within that portal that said see you on
Speaker 1: the other side. Um. They were also pointing to the
Speaker 1: cross shape stage, which just for references a pretty normal
Speaker 1: shape of a stage, as well as the shirt he
Speaker 1: was wearing and the slow rhythm of the music. When
Speaker 1: I was growing up, I was definitely like a goth teen,
Speaker 1: I guess you might say, And so I liked black clothing.
Speaker 1: I liked sort of I guess, like demonic imagery and
Speaker 1: that kind of thing. And I grew up in the
Speaker 1: kind of householder my parents would be like, Oh, this
Speaker 1: is batanic, don't listen to this, don't listen to that.
Speaker 1: And as an adult, I realized that occult imagery can
Speaker 1: sort of be just like a marketing thing. Like a
Speaker 1: lot of the bands that I like, I'm sure they
Speaker 1: chose the specific imagery that they did precisely because they
Speaker 1: knew it was associated was like the occult. And so
Speaker 1: now in light of this tragedy, I feel like people
Speaker 1: are looking for all these different like symbolisms and meanings,
Speaker 1: and it's like, well, it's not unusual for our certain
Speaker 1: alternative artists to choose iconography that is associated with the
Speaker 1: occult as like their brand, and so you seeing a
Speaker 1: conspiracy theory on it. It's kind of like a self
Speaker 1: fulfilling prophecy or like a feedback loop, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. Absolutely, I mean, it's it's very much become
Speaker 1: a part of different cultures. I mean, you've seen it
Speaker 1: in hip hop culture, and this is what we see
Speaker 1: at the show of adopting that kind of imagery because
Speaker 1: they've already been accused of it so much that it
Speaker 1: kind of starts to fold in on it. So they're
Speaker 1: definitely better people than me to speak about the history
Speaker 1: the hip hop not that I'm not that girl, but
Speaker 1: it's certainly become a part of some of the marketing
Speaker 1: campaigns that they use. Yeah. So, in terms of these
Speaker 1: videos and how they're taking off on TikTok. In your
Speaker 1: Peace with Olivia Little for Media Matters, you talk about
Speaker 1: this unprecedented reach that we're seeing with conspiracy videos on
Speaker 1: TikTok about the festival, Can you tell me a little
Speaker 1: bit about how they're taking off platform conspiracy theory. TikTok
Speaker 1: is so mind bogglingly huge. It's really hard to articulate
Speaker 1: just how big it is. It's so popular and so
Speaker 1: easy to go down those wormholes because I think that
Speaker 1: like those videos can be really gripping, so they get
Speaker 1: high engagement. People love watching them, and you can gain
Speaker 1: a lot of followers pushing them. People don't necessarily understand
Speaker 1: that they can be harmful. They don't necessarily understand they
Speaker 1: can be truly hateful in origin, but we see them
Speaker 1: all the time. So when we saw these like conspiracy
Speaker 1: theories essentially break out immediately after the ast World tragedy,
Speaker 1: it's not necessarily surprising because there's already such a strong
Speaker 1: kind of framework for that type of thinking on TikTok already.
Speaker 1: Do you think that TikTok should be doing more to
Speaker 1: curb these kinds of videos, Yes, they should be doing
Speaker 1: more to curb these types of videos, like absolutely, with
Speaker 1: that a doubt. Conspiracy theories at the moment in and
Speaker 1: of themselves there are not against the platforms moderation guidelines,
Speaker 1: but a lot of that time, a lot of the
Speaker 1: time that means that they can just kind of drive
Speaker 1: completely un checked and there is no understanding of different
Speaker 1: kind of scales of harm that they can cause. In general,
Speaker 1: the app should be doing more to kind of add
Speaker 1: friction to those videos so that they don't go so
Speaker 1: viral so easily and just take over entire for you pages. Well,
Speaker 1: on the one hand, I can kind of understand why
Speaker 1: these videos are so compelling. I know that in the
Speaker 1: days after Astra World I really caught myself kind of
Speaker 1: stuck in a loop of watching these videos over and
Speaker 1: over and over again, and there really was something kind
Speaker 1: of compelling about them. They were so disturbing and so dark,
Speaker 1: and I noticed that initially I was being surface videos
Speaker 1: from people who were there, who were just saying, this
Speaker 1: is what it was like, this is what we had
Speaker 1: to face. And eventually, as I continued scrolling on TikTok,
Speaker 1: the videos I was being surfaced were more and more
Speaker 1: extreme and becoming more and more lady with satanic conspiracy theories.
Speaker 1: But again, I can sort of see how people can
Speaker 1: be easily taken in and easily down a rabbit hole
Speaker 1: just watching video after video like that. Absolutely, I think
Speaker 1: especially on TikTok, where it just feeds them to you.
Speaker 1: It's not like you made the choice to go click
Speaker 1: on those videos. It was just like, oh, you watched
Speaker 1: this video of a perspective from inside the crowd, and
Speaker 1: how terrifying it is. Other people who watched that are
Speaker 1: also interested in this theory of it being a ritual,
Speaker 1: and then it eats it to you. And the other
Speaker 1: thing to point out is that conspiracy theory is exactly
Speaker 1: like this, a really common in the wake of tragedy
Speaker 1: and terrifying disasters, things like when we try and process horrible,
Speaker 1: horrible events that are truly just like too much for
Speaker 1: our brain. Conspiracy theories offer very simple answers to these
Speaker 1: kind of complex problem ms and also offer some sort
Speaker 1: of like sense of meaning to it, like it was intentional,
Speaker 1: there's some sort of story behind it that your brain
Speaker 1: can connect the dots into. Oh my gosh, I think
Speaker 1: you really said it. You know, I can kind of
Speaker 1: understand why, Oh, this was a Satanic ritualistic sacrifice. It's
Speaker 1: somehow more comforting than it was a good old fashioned capitalism.
Speaker 1: And it just turned out that the organizers of this
Speaker 1: event cared more about making money than they did about
Speaker 1: safety concerns. And I guess that if it's Satanists, I
Speaker 1: feel like it's much less likely that I'm going to
Speaker 1: run into a cable of Satanists than it is that
Speaker 1: I am going to like encounter shotny craftsmanship from somebody
Speaker 1: who didn't care or like a system that didn't care
Speaker 1: enough about me, and it hurt me, you know, I
Speaker 1: feel like that, like it's more comforting to to believe
Speaker 1: the first one than it is to be like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's capitalism, we can't escape, but it's all around us,
Speaker 1: you know, somehow bleaker. It's definitely more reality is more
Speaker 1: grim in this situation. I also think that you know,
Speaker 1: as everybody does, we all suffer from the sort of
Speaker 1: main character syndrome. And if the narrative in your head
Speaker 1: is it's an evil group that's out to get you,
Speaker 1: then you are somehow involved and they are concerned with you,
Speaker 1: and their actions are reflection of somehow of how they
Speaker 1: want to go after you. You are still somehow involved
Speaker 1: in that. But when instead it's just they literally didn't
Speaker 1: think about you. They're so concerned with making their own
Speaker 1: money that they never thought about your safety. You weren't
Speaker 1: a concern. You are just an object that produces money
Speaker 1: to them. That is so much worse for our brands
Speaker 1: to try and comprehend than like, uh, evil group is
Speaker 1: trying to get Yeah, like that's what's way harder. It's grimmer.
Speaker 1: It's way grimmer. It's grim, and it's also just so lonely.
Speaker 1: It's so lone to feel like your humanity is not recognized. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's very it's inhuman, it's it's really loses the humanity
Speaker 1: when you think about it in that framework, versus if
Speaker 1: you just go with like evil villains and good guys
Speaker 1: who are in like this fight against evil, I feel
Speaker 1: like you get to kind of feel like your humanity
Speaker 1: is still relevant to them. Obviously, those kids humanities didn't,
Speaker 1: like we're not was not obvious to the organizers of
Speaker 1: this event, like they were being treated like chattel. You know.
Speaker 1: It's like, you know this idea that that their individual
Speaker 1: humanity and souls or whatever, that like the organizers would
Speaker 1: be really into that. It's like, no, they don't. I
Speaker 1: don't think they even clock you all as humans who
Speaker 1: they need to care about in that way. You're just numbers,
Speaker 1: and the higher than number of the more the revenue is.
Speaker 1: And they wanted to stream it, and yeah, the whole
Speaker 1: thing is so so great him and just like so
Speaker 1: fucked up that I think people have an easier time
Speaker 1: adding a storyline to it because then at least there's
Speaker 1: some meaning behind it and it's not quite so fucked up.
Speaker 1: It's it's literally less fucked up if it were in
Speaker 1: demonic sacrifice. Let's say, clickbreak center back. Something else I've
Speaker 1: learned from your work is this idea of conspiracy theories
Speaker 1: often are a way to talk about or way to
Speaker 1: demonize people for their identities without actually like saying that.
Speaker 1: And so in this situation, I've noticed people saying like, Oh,
Speaker 1: they're sacrificed by celebrity, And I can't help wondering if
Speaker 1: they're using celebrity as like a stand in for it
Speaker 1: sounds like anti semitic and racist me. Like the way
Speaker 1: that they're the way that they're talking about it, it
Speaker 1: almost seems like a more palatable way of coding explicit
Speaker 1: anti semitism or racism. Yeah. Absolutely, when they like dog
Speaker 1: whistle at Hollywood, like you know, Hollywood is controlled by
Speaker 1: evil elites who are using these celebrity clones, and of
Speaker 1: course they only ever go after hip hop artists, generally
Speaker 1: black artists, and it's usually narratives about them being cloned,
Speaker 1: about them being somehow under control of some illuminati, shadow
Speaker 1: elite supreme force, and oftentimes like there's just so much
Speaker 1: coded racism and so much coded anti semitism in both
Speaker 1: of these and they just fooled together into this awful
Speaker 1: combination of dog whistled hate. Yes, And I think it's
Speaker 1: one of those things where they don't have to come
Speaker 1: out and say that they're talking about Jewish people, or
Speaker 1: they're talking about like quote what rappers, you know what
Speaker 1: that's code for. It kind of makes it more palatable,
Speaker 1: and then when you call it out, they have a
Speaker 1: very convenient you know, it's like I never said, I
Speaker 1: never explicitly said that I was talking about Jewish people.
Speaker 1: I like, you know, I feel like the way it
Speaker 1: kind of gives them a plausible deniability to continue trafficking
Speaker 1: in this kind of hate without being called out, And
Speaker 1: if you call it out, it's like, oh, well, you're
Speaker 1: just trying to suppress my you know, my truth. Oh absolutely,
Speaker 1: And like there are also parts of what they're saying
Speaker 1: that like are rooted in reality and very real problems,
Speaker 1: and so then they can kind of hide under those
Speaker 1: as well. Like there are issues in Hollywood with like
Speaker 1: people having too much power, and those are often like
Speaker 1: old white men who are making decisions about like mass media,
Speaker 1: and like that's an issue, right, and like in general,
Speaker 1: do we do we idolize celebrities a bit too much?
Speaker 1: Like probably, like those are like real conversations for us
Speaker 1: to be having. There are real systemic issues to like
Speaker 1: be looking at here, but they often kind of hide
Speaker 1: under them, or like vaguely referenced them in a coded
Speaker 1: enough way that it, like to an on larker, might
Speaker 1: not look problematic, and it gives them kind of a
Speaker 1: blanket hide under. Yeah, I've noticed that, and it's so
Speaker 1: frustrating because it makes it so hard to call out.
Speaker 1: It's like another reason why I appreciate the work of
Speaker 1: yourself and other folks who speak out against us on TikTok,
Speaker 1: because they, I think that they make content that is
Speaker 1: specifically hard to call out, and so like it takes
Speaker 1: a little bit of a nuance to do it well.
Speaker 1: And so I so appreciate the work that you're doing
Speaker 1: in terms of saying like, well, let's actually unpack what's
Speaker 1: going on here. Thank you. I appreciate it. It it
Speaker 1: takes a lot a lot of time, so I genuinely
Speaker 1: appreciate it. You see it so much Like there was
Speaker 1: one big defunk that I did a couple of months ago,
Speaker 1: I think, but there was a viral video about anxious
Speaker 1: civilizations in Antarctica, and the end of that rabbit hole
Speaker 1: was like esoteric Nazi ship and I have to do
Speaker 1: this like three minute explanation of like okay, like here's
Speaker 1: like what is actually going on here on like the
Speaker 1: surface level, they're saying like Antarctica like maybe had humans
Speaker 1: on it before. But then if you look at like
Speaker 1: the actual language they're using, and they're saying like Hyperborea,
Speaker 1: which is very much a part of kind of esoteric
Speaker 1: Nazi mythology. So what people engage with as if it's
Speaker 1: like just a normal, fun conspiracy theory like on TikTok
Speaker 1: is actually literally Nazi mythology. And I think that really
Speaker 1: helps us see how these conspiracy theories might seem harmless
Speaker 1: but actually can be a pathway to much more dangerous
Speaker 1: and extremist lines of thinking. I can, at least anecdotally
Speaker 1: say that, like when I engage with one or two
Speaker 1: conspiracy theories on TikTok, then all of a sudden, I'm
Speaker 1: fed more and they get more and more extreme. I
Speaker 1: think that like there's absolutely a link, Like we know
Speaker 1: that conspiracy theories almost always end in anti semitism, and
Speaker 1: they decrease kind of your trust towards other other groups
Speaker 1: of people who might not be like you, and they
Speaker 1: they decrease your pro social behavior, and they have kind
Speaker 1: of all these effects on society at large. But it
Speaker 1: does kind of also seem like they are changing the
Speaker 1: way we think, like where so many people have like
Speaker 1: opted out of reality and are choosing kind of just
Speaker 1: like these escapist conspiracy theories to believe in rather than accepting,
Speaker 1: like right now, reality is pretty tough. Yeah, it's it's
Speaker 1: so interesting how you put that. I do feel like
Speaker 1: an entire subsection of the world has just checked out
Speaker 1: of reality, and it's like it's like easier to live
Speaker 1: in a conspiracy theory because, like you said, reality is
Speaker 1: pretty scary. The fact that, you know, it's not really
Speaker 1: some Satanist group, it's just capitalism trying to get your money,
Speaker 1: and that's what killed eight people. That's pretty grim. I
Speaker 1: can understand wanting to check out of that reality and
Speaker 1: instead believe something that is like weirdly more comforting, you know. Yeah, absolutely,
Speaker 1: for some reason, like for the human brain, it is
Speaker 1: more comforting to believe that there's like a shadow elite
Speaker 1: trying to get Yeah, because at least that's a simple answer, right,
Speaker 1: that has a pretty simple fix. If there were some
Speaker 1: like unimaginably powerful group in charge of the world, like
Speaker 1: that would be kind of great because like they're clearly
Speaker 1: doing a bad job, Like let's get rid of them.
Speaker 1: But no, like there's a lot of systems that are
Speaker 1: like interwoven with each other and causing problems that we
Speaker 1: are like reliant on those systems, and we're complicit in
Speaker 1: those systems, and like we all have to also change
Speaker 1: our own behaviors to like fix these huge problems, and
Speaker 1: they're gonna take years to fix. There is no like
Speaker 1: on off switch for fixing these things. Like it's years
Speaker 1: and years of collective work, and that is so much
Speaker 1: more mental energy and like long term physical energy than
Speaker 1: just being like, oh, it's just evil Jews and control
Speaker 1: of the world. Right, I guess I have one kind
Speaker 1: of tough question that I've been wrestling with, is is
Speaker 1: there a line between telling people who were at astra
Speaker 1: world that they can't recount their own understanding of their experience.
Speaker 1: Like I'm sure you saw that video of the young
Speaker 1: woman who was like, when I bought this ticket, I
Speaker 1: didn't notice all the different you know, iconography or hints
Speaker 1: that this was a sacrifice, and I believe that was there,
Speaker 1: like it was demonic all the hypnotic noises. Is there
Speaker 1: a line between telling someone that they're allowed to have
Speaker 1: their own perspective of their experience and like allowing room
Speaker 1: for that, but also not spreading harmful, damaging conspiracy theories
Speaker 1: and trafficking in them. Like, is there is there a
Speaker 1: line where we can make space for both or what
Speaker 1: do you do? You have any thoughts? Yeah? I mean
Speaker 1: I think that people are allowed to have their own
Speaker 1: experiences and they're allowed to kind of talk about those.
Speaker 1: The question is do we amplify them. I don't think
Speaker 1: that we should ever tell somebody, no, you aren't allowed
Speaker 1: to think this, But the question is do we then
Speaker 1: spread that to another fifteen million people who weren't there
Speaker 1: and are just going to kind of take your work
Speaker 1: for it. And also believe that the power that something
Speaker 1: like TikTok has when it comes to virility and spreading
Speaker 1: a message is really kind of unprecedented. So we have
Speaker 1: to be having conversations and honestly tough questions about like
Speaker 1: what is doing the most harm versus the most good
Speaker 1: in this sort of situation. And it's like all of
Speaker 1: it is going to be shitty as there's like I
Speaker 1: wish that there were ways that everybody can be happy,
Speaker 1: and the whole thing is just like awful to think
Speaker 1: about in general. So, yeah, it's a tough question. You're
Speaker 1: not wrong more after a quick break, let's get right
Speaker 1: back into it. Satanic, ritualistic sacrifice. We're not the only
Speaker 1: kinds of unsubstantiated claims that we heard in the aftermath
Speaker 1: of Astra World. Houston Police Chief Troy Finner initially said
Speaker 1: in a televised press conference, and an unidentified attendee caused
Speaker 1: a panic by injecting a security guard with a needle
Speaker 1: full of an unknown drug, causing him to pass out.
Speaker 1: Dinner said that the security guard was revived after he
Speaker 1: was given narcon, a prescription to treat opioid overdose, and
Speaker 1: he also said that medics confirmed yet a needle mark
Speaker 1: on his neck. Now, as soon as I heard this,
Speaker 1: I thought it sounded kind of like the drugs or
Speaker 1: horror stories I'd heard during my adolescence growing up. And
Speaker 1: one rogue bad actor causing a panic that led to
Speaker 1: a deadly stampede is a pretty convenient explanation that kind
Speaker 1: of likes the organizers off the hook for their part
Speaker 1: in the deadly festival. But later then I walked back
Speaker 1: those statements, saying the security officer had not been injected
Speaker 1: with drugs after all, and instead had just been hit
Speaker 1: on the head. Conspiracy theories cast blame on Boogeyman instead
Speaker 1: of on the actual real world systems and individuals who
Speaker 1: are at fault. Kind of the flip side of that
Speaker 1: for me is that so many of the first hand
Speaker 1: videos on TikTok are from people who were there, and
Speaker 1: in terms of like what we amplify and what we don't,
Speaker 1: I feel like some of the most compelling TikTok's that
Speaker 1: challenge the organizers and the authorities, you know, like very
Speaker 1: convenient version of events. When the tragedy first happened, I
Speaker 1: was like, oh, they're the cops are saying that somebody
Speaker 1: was like stabbed with a with a needle, and that
Speaker 1: that they caused the stampede. And I was like, that's
Speaker 1: a very convenient narrative. And then when you go to
Speaker 1: TikTok and see these firsthand videos of obvious overcrowding, like
Speaker 1: obvious like like dangerous conditions, part of me was like,
Speaker 1: I am glad that young people have access to platforms
Speaker 1: like TikTok where they can say no, no, no authorities.
Speaker 1: Here is what I experienced, and rather than amplifying conspiracy theories.
Speaker 1: I wish that we were seeing more, you know, more
Speaker 1: accounts that challenge the authorities and the organizers very convenient
Speaker 1: narrative of what happened to get accountability. And so I
Speaker 1: think it's interesting how it can be like a double
Speaker 1: edged thing. It can be used to spread conspiracy or
Speaker 1: used to challenge official narratives that let people off the
Speaker 1: hook who had power to stop this. Oh. Absolutely, It's
Speaker 1: one of my favorite things about TikTok is just like
Speaker 1: there's good and bad, and I think obviously, just like
Speaker 1: my work of analyzing you know, misinstration disinformation on TikTok is,
Speaker 1: oftentimes people look at that and then assume that I
Speaker 1: hate the app and I really don't. Like there are
Speaker 1: really phenomenal things that it offers, like when it comes
Speaker 1: to like learning and like being exposed to different ideas
Speaker 1: than you might already have. Like TikTok really is capable
Speaker 1: of doing that if you create that sort of feed
Speaker 1: in general, and if you are that type of person
Speaker 1: who goes looking for that, and it absolutely I think
Speaker 1: even with the astral world, like there is both there
Speaker 1: is the conspiracy theories and the ideas that it is
Speaker 1: a satanic ritual. And then there's also people who are
Speaker 1: looking at that and just seeing the overcrowding and the
Speaker 1: poor management that went on. So like, yes, and again
Speaker 1: tough question because how do you balance those How do
Speaker 1: you have an algorithm that can tell the difference and
Speaker 1: promote what is like honest you know, experiences of what
Speaker 1: happened versus like conspiracy theories about it. Yeah, it's a
Speaker 1: tough question. But I'm happy that there are folks like
Speaker 1: you who are asking those questions and sort of creating
Speaker 1: those conversations that I think that we need to have. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we definitely need to be having them because this conspiracy
Speaker 1: theory environment on TikTok is not sustainable for democracy or
Speaker 1: just like a healthy environment for a lot of kids
Speaker 1: to be growing up. And like they should be challenging
Speaker 1: the narratives, absolutely, but I don't think conspiracy theories actually
Speaker 1: challenge the narratives. They just are kind of how do
Speaker 1: I put this, Conspiracies don't challenge narratives, They are just
Speaker 1: dressed up as something that does. That is I completely
Speaker 1: agree with you, even know what you mean, right. It
Speaker 1: seems like like with Astro World, challenging the narrative would
Speaker 1: be holding the people who would power accountable. It's not.
Speaker 1: If it's Satan, then like we're not going to be
Speaker 1: able to sue Satan. So it just like lets people
Speaker 1: who let this happen off the hook. But it's dressed
Speaker 1: up in this way of like, oh, this is like
Speaker 1: an edgy y'all aren't ready for this, like edgy take
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Like it's like dressed up
Speaker 1: as if it is challenging a narrative, but in fact
Speaker 1: it is creating a convenient supernatural scapegoat so that those
Speaker 1: who actually had the power to prevent this can continue
Speaker 1: to like avoid accountability. Absolutely. That was so so I'll
Speaker 1: put you to no words out of my mouth. That
Speaker 1: was really you've nailed it there, because like if you
Speaker 1: subscribe to this idea that it's a Satanic ritual, then
Speaker 1: like that offers zero answers about like what cost it,
Speaker 1: what we're all the bad decisions that led up to this,
Speaker 1: And then it offers also no solutions for how do
Speaker 1: we prevent this in the future. The only thing that
Speaker 1: it tells you to do is except Jesus is your
Speaker 1: Lord and samet gear. That's it. And like that doesn't
Speaker 1: fix any problems about concert over crowding. Also, and like
Speaker 1: this is something that a lot of the times I
Speaker 1: think we miss when it comes to covering conspiracy theories,
Speaker 1: but on a much kind of smaller scale, not on
Speaker 1: the societal scale, but on a smaller scale of like
Speaker 1: there are real victims here, Like there are people who die,
Speaker 1: and people who have very severe injuries, and a lot
Speaker 1: of people who are traumatized. And all of those people
Speaker 1: have families. And then when you go around saying it
Speaker 1: was part of a satanic sacrifice, like how is that
Speaker 1: going to make them feel? And like what are the
Speaker 1: consequences for that? Of now you have family members who
Speaker 1: are grieving their loved ones, and if they go look
Speaker 1: for their loved ones online, they're going to see them
Speaker 1: incorporated into conspiracy theories about this being some sort of
Speaker 1: like Hollywood hip hop sacrifice. And even worse, like if
Speaker 1: they are a religious person and they buy into that themselves,
Speaker 1: like what would that do to them? So like those
Speaker 1: are really heartbreaking, very real world effects that these types
Speaker 1: of conspiracy theories can have on the victims and their families. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I think that you're exactly right that we don't
Speaker 1: talk enough about the people who are harmed when be
Speaker 1: traffic and conspiracy theories and spread them in this way,
Speaker 1: the people, like the actual real world harm that it's causing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean there's the ideological harm in the way. It's
Speaker 1: like harming society at large to think this way because
Speaker 1: like this again solves no problems, offers no solutions, and
Speaker 1: lets people check out it. Lets really the organizers and
Speaker 1: the people who are responsible off the hook in a
Speaker 1: lot of ways. But then it also causes harm to
Speaker 1: like real humans who are in the process of like
Speaker 1: the processing trauma and grieving and trying to understand what happened.
Speaker 1: And now if they go looking for it they see
Speaker 1: satanic ritual. That's not fair to them. It's really not well.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm so happy that you're in this fight.
Speaker 1: Friend of the show, you know, I I look to
Speaker 1: you whatever there's a big thing happening that involves conspiracy theories.
Speaker 1: I always look to your content and it really helps
Speaker 1: me put it in perspective. So thank you for that.
Speaker 1: Thank you. I'm I'm happy to be able to help.
Speaker 1: I love your show, always listening, I love coming around here. Yeah,
Speaker 1: where can folks keep up with all the amazing work
Speaker 1: that you're up to. So my TikTok is topology, and
Speaker 1: I'd make a lot of kind of like longer form
Speaker 1: TikTok videos debunking different conspiracies on there. My Twitter is
Speaker 1: Abby a s R. In my Instagram is Abby s R.
Speaker 1: All of them are resources and I hope too that
Speaker 1: they can help people. Got a story about an interesting
Speaker 1: thing in tech, I just want to say hi. You
Speaker 1: can reach us at Hello at tang godi dot com.
Speaker 1: You can also find transcripts for today's episode at tangdi
Speaker 1: dot com. There Are No Girls on the Internet was
Speaker 1: created by me bridget Toad. It's a production of iHeart
Speaker 1: Radio and Unboss creative Jonathan Stricklett as our executive producer.
Speaker 1: Ary Harrison is our producer and sound engineer. Michael Amato
Speaker 1: is our contributing producer. I'm your host, bridget Toad. If
Speaker 1: you want to help us grow, rate and review us
Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts. For more podcasts from My Heart Radio,
Speaker 1: check out the iHeart radi you app, Apple podcast, or
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. H m HM