1
00:00:04,160 --> 00:00:05,880
Speaker 1: There Are No Girls on the Internet. As a production

2
00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:13,280
Speaker 1: of My Heart Radio and Unboss Creative, I'm Brigittad and

3
00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:17,919
Speaker 1: this is There Are No Girls on the Internet. In

4
00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:20,759
Speaker 1: the wake of the Astro World tragedy, a music festival

5
00:00:20,840 --> 00:00:23,320
Speaker 1: lead and headlined by rapper Travis Scott that left ten

6
00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:27,520
Speaker 1: dead and hundreds more injured, TikTok exploded in conspiracy theories

7
00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:30,360
Speaker 1: that the event was actually a Satanic ritual for people

8
00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:34,360
Speaker 1: who are being intentionally sacrificed. After the tragedy, I was

9
00:00:34,479 --> 00:00:38,680
Speaker 1: glued to my phone watching increasingly horrifying firsthand accounts of

10
00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:42,120
Speaker 1: young people who were there, and pretty quickly these videos

11
00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:45,080
Speaker 1: went from people sharing stories of overcrowding and two little

12
00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:48,120
Speaker 1: staff with two little training and other man made elements

13
00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:50,839
Speaker 1: to disaster, two people saying they felt they had been

14
00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:54,520
Speaker 1: hypnotized into a trance by the dark music, or speculating

15
00:00:54,520 --> 00:00:56,920
Speaker 1: that there were clues hidden in plain sight that the

16
00:00:56,920 --> 00:00:59,760
Speaker 1: festival was actually part of a Satanic ritual. Because of

17
00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:03,680
Speaker 1: the way TikTok functions continuously surfacing new videos and users

18
00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:06,039
Speaker 1: is for you page, I didn't even really have much

19
00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:09,440
Speaker 1: control over the increasingly more extreme videos I was consuming.

20
00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:13,080
Speaker 1: It raises the question, in the wake of a tragedy

21
00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:16,600
Speaker 1: like Astro World, what responsibility do platforms like TikTok have

22
00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:21,160
Speaker 1: to not amplify content that pushes conspiracy theories. Now, satanic

23
00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:24,280
Speaker 1: panic is nothing new. The moral panic where thousands of

24
00:01:24,319 --> 00:01:28,200
Speaker 1: unsubstantiated allegations of Satanic ritual abuse and sacrifice have been

25
00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:31,480
Speaker 1: around since the eighties, but researcher Abby Richards says it

26
00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:35,200
Speaker 1: never really went away. My name is Abby Richards, and

27
00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:40,559
Speaker 1: I am a TikToker and a TikTok disinformation researcher. I've

28
00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:43,800
Speaker 1: seen so many TikTok sort of claiming that this what

29
00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:49,120
Speaker 1: happened in Houston was like a rich, realistic sacrifice by Satanists.

30
00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:51,560
Speaker 1: And you know, I guess my first question is what

31
00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:55,080
Speaker 1: kind of imagery or iconography or people pointing to to

32
00:01:55,160 --> 00:01:59,120
Speaker 1: support these outlandish claims. There was a bunge. I think

33
00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:01,760
Speaker 1: a lot of it was like there was a portal

34
00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:05,160
Speaker 1: on the stage and I was writing kind of on

35
00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:07,960
Speaker 1: the stage within that portal that said see you on

36
00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:11,920
Speaker 1: the other side. Um. They were also pointing to the

37
00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:16,880
Speaker 1: cross shape stage, which just for references a pretty normal

38
00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:20,240
Speaker 1: shape of a stage, as well as the shirt he

39
00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:24,400
Speaker 1: was wearing and the slow rhythm of the music. When

40
00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:26,840
Speaker 1: I was growing up, I was definitely like a goth teen,

41
00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:30,400
Speaker 1: I guess you might say, And so I liked black clothing.

42
00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:34,200
Speaker 1: I liked sort of I guess, like demonic imagery and

43
00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:35,760
Speaker 1: that kind of thing. And I grew up in the

44
00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:38,079
Speaker 1: kind of householder my parents would be like, Oh, this

45
00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:40,360
Speaker 1: is batanic, don't listen to this, don't listen to that.

46
00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:44,440
Speaker 1: And as an adult, I realized that occult imagery can

47
00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:46,480
Speaker 1: sort of be just like a marketing thing. Like a

48
00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:48,600
Speaker 1: lot of the bands that I like, I'm sure they

49
00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:54,000
Speaker 1: chose the specific imagery that they did precisely because they

50
00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:56,799
Speaker 1: knew it was associated was like the occult. And so

51
00:02:56,880 --> 00:02:59,680
Speaker 1: now in light of this tragedy, I feel like people

52
00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:03,120
Speaker 1: are looking for all these different like symbolisms and meanings,

53
00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:06,240
Speaker 1: and it's like, well, it's not unusual for our certain

54
00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:10,320
Speaker 1: alternative artists to choose iconography that is associated with the

55
00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:13,840
Speaker 1: occult as like their brand, and so you seeing a

56
00:03:13,880 --> 00:03:16,480
Speaker 1: conspiracy theory on it. It's kind of like a self

57
00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:18,880
Speaker 1: fulfilling prophecy or like a feedback loop, you know what

58
00:03:18,919 --> 00:03:21,680
Speaker 1: I mean. Absolutely, I mean, it's it's very much become

59
00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:23,640
Speaker 1: a part of different cultures. I mean, you've seen it

60
00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:26,000
Speaker 1: in hip hop culture, and this is what we see

61
00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:29,560
Speaker 1: at the show of adopting that kind of imagery because

62
00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:32,000
Speaker 1: they've already been accused of it so much that it

63
00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:34,640
Speaker 1: kind of starts to fold in on it. So they're

64
00:03:34,639 --> 00:03:36,840
Speaker 1: definitely better people than me to speak about the history

65
00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:40,520
Speaker 1: the hip hop not that I'm not that girl, but

66
00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:44,360
Speaker 1: it's certainly become a part of some of the marketing

67
00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:46,800
Speaker 1: campaigns that they use. Yeah. So, in terms of these

68
00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:49,200
Speaker 1: videos and how they're taking off on TikTok. In your

69
00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:52,320
Speaker 1: Peace with Olivia Little for Media Matters, you talk about

70
00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:56,120
Speaker 1: this unprecedented reach that we're seeing with conspiracy videos on

71
00:03:56,120 --> 00:03:58,680
Speaker 1: TikTok about the festival, Can you tell me a little

72
00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:02,920
Speaker 1: bit about how they're taking off platform conspiracy theory. TikTok

73
00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:08,680
Speaker 1: is so mind bogglingly huge. It's really hard to articulate

74
00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:13,560
Speaker 1: just how big it is. It's so popular and so

75
00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:16,440
Speaker 1: easy to go down those wormholes because I think that

76
00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:19,039
Speaker 1: like those videos can be really gripping, so they get

77
00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:23,120
Speaker 1: high engagement. People love watching them, and you can gain

78
00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:27,120
Speaker 1: a lot of followers pushing them. People don't necessarily understand

79
00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:29,800
Speaker 1: that they can be harmful. They don't necessarily understand they

80
00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:34,680
Speaker 1: can be truly hateful in origin, but we see them

81
00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:37,680
Speaker 1: all the time. So when we saw these like conspiracy

82
00:04:37,720 --> 00:04:42,760
Speaker 1: theories essentially break out immediately after the ast World tragedy,

83
00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:46,880
Speaker 1: it's not necessarily surprising because there's already such a strong

84
00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:51,440
Speaker 1: kind of framework for that type of thinking on TikTok already.

85
00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:53,520
Speaker 1: Do you think that TikTok should be doing more to

86
00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:56,320
Speaker 1: curb these kinds of videos, Yes, they should be doing

87
00:04:56,480 --> 00:04:59,880
Speaker 1: more to curb these types of videos, like absolutely, with

88
00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:03,480
Speaker 1: that a doubt. Conspiracy theories at the moment in and

89
00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:08,080
Speaker 1: of themselves there are not against the platforms moderation guidelines,

90
00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:09,960
Speaker 1: but a lot of that time, a lot of the

91
00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:12,479
Speaker 1: time that means that they can just kind of drive

92
00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:18,160
Speaker 1: completely un checked and there is no understanding of different

93
00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:21,880
Speaker 1: kind of scales of harm that they can cause. In general,

94
00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:24,080
Speaker 1: the app should be doing more to kind of add

95
00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:27,000
Speaker 1: friction to those videos so that they don't go so

96
00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:33,000
Speaker 1: viral so easily and just take over entire for you pages. Well,

97
00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:34,840
Speaker 1: on the one hand, I can kind of understand why

98
00:05:34,839 --> 00:05:37,000
Speaker 1: these videos are so compelling. I know that in the

99
00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:40,120
Speaker 1: days after Astra World I really caught myself kind of

100
00:05:40,120 --> 00:05:42,720
Speaker 1: stuck in a loop of watching these videos over and

101
00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:45,760
Speaker 1: over and over again, and there really was something kind

102
00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:49,240
Speaker 1: of compelling about them. They were so disturbing and so dark,

103
00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:52,720
Speaker 1: and I noticed that initially I was being surface videos

104
00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:54,440
Speaker 1: from people who were there, who were just saying, this

105
00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:55,720
Speaker 1: is what it was like, this is what we had

106
00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:59,240
Speaker 1: to face. And eventually, as I continued scrolling on TikTok,

107
00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:02,440
Speaker 1: the videos I was being surfaced were more and more

108
00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:06,440
Speaker 1: extreme and becoming more and more lady with satanic conspiracy theories.

109
00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:09,640
Speaker 1: But again, I can sort of see how people can

110
00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:13,080
Speaker 1: be easily taken in and easily down a rabbit hole

111
00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:17,080
Speaker 1: just watching video after video like that. Absolutely, I think

112
00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:19,880
Speaker 1: especially on TikTok, where it just feeds them to you.

113
00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:22,119
Speaker 1: It's not like you made the choice to go click

114
00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:24,919
Speaker 1: on those videos. It was just like, oh, you watched

115
00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:28,480
Speaker 1: this video of a perspective from inside the crowd, and

116
00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:31,160
Speaker 1: how terrifying it is. Other people who watched that are

117
00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:34,600
Speaker 1: also interested in this theory of it being a ritual,

118
00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:37,280
Speaker 1: and then it eats it to you. And the other

119
00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:40,920
Speaker 1: thing to point out is that conspiracy theory is exactly

120
00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:45,000
Speaker 1: like this, a really common in the wake of tragedy

121
00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:51,360
Speaker 1: and terrifying disasters, things like when we try and process horrible,

122
00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:54,960
Speaker 1: horrible events that are truly just like too much for

123
00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:59,000
Speaker 1: our brain. Conspiracy theories offer very simple answers to these

124
00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:02,080
Speaker 1: kind of complex problem ms and also offer some sort

125
00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:06,560
Speaker 1: of like sense of meaning to it, like it was intentional,

126
00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:09,160
Speaker 1: there's some sort of story behind it that your brain

127
00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:13,000
Speaker 1: can connect the dots into. Oh my gosh, I think

128
00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:16,680
Speaker 1: you really said it. You know, I can kind of

129
00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:22,480
Speaker 1: understand why, Oh, this was a Satanic ritualistic sacrifice. It's

130
00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:27,160
Speaker 1: somehow more comforting than it was a good old fashioned capitalism.

131
00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:30,240
Speaker 1: And it just turned out that the organizers of this

132
00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:32,560
Speaker 1: event cared more about making money than they did about

133
00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:36,200
Speaker 1: safety concerns. And I guess that if it's Satanists, I

134
00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:39,040
Speaker 1: feel like it's much less likely that I'm going to

135
00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:41,760
Speaker 1: run into a cable of Satanists than it is that

136
00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:46,080
Speaker 1: I am going to like encounter shotny craftsmanship from somebody

137
00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:48,440
Speaker 1: who didn't care or like a system that didn't care

138
00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:50,920
Speaker 1: enough about me, and it hurt me, you know, I

139
00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:54,320
Speaker 1: feel like that, like it's more comforting to to believe

140
00:07:54,480 --> 00:07:56,440
Speaker 1: the first one than it is to be like, oh, yeah,

141
00:07:56,480 --> 00:07:58,880
Speaker 1: it's capitalism, we can't escape, but it's all around us,

142
00:07:59,040 --> 00:08:03,320
Speaker 1: you know, somehow bleaker. It's definitely more reality is more

143
00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:06,360
Speaker 1: grim in this situation. I also think that you know,

144
00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:09,240
Speaker 1: as everybody does, we all suffer from the sort of

145
00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:13,880
Speaker 1: main character syndrome. And if the narrative in your head

146
00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:17,000
Speaker 1: is it's an evil group that's out to get you,

147
00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:20,960
Speaker 1: then you are somehow involved and they are concerned with you,

148
00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:25,880
Speaker 1: and their actions are reflection of somehow of how they

149
00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:28,840
Speaker 1: want to go after you. You are still somehow involved

150
00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:33,600
Speaker 1: in that. But when instead it's just they literally didn't

151
00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:36,679
Speaker 1: think about you. They're so concerned with making their own

152
00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:40,880
Speaker 1: money that they never thought about your safety. You weren't

153
00:08:40,880 --> 00:08:43,800
Speaker 1: a concern. You are just an object that produces money

154
00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:47,600
Speaker 1: to them. That is so much worse for our brands

155
00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:52,000
Speaker 1: to try and comprehend than like, uh, evil group is

156
00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:55,400
Speaker 1: trying to get Yeah, like that's what's way harder. It's grimmer.

157
00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:58,760
Speaker 1: It's way grimmer. It's grim, and it's also just so lonely.

158
00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:03,120
Speaker 1: It's so lone to feel like your humanity is not recognized. Yeah,

159
00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:09,280
Speaker 1: it's very it's inhuman, it's it's really loses the humanity

160
00:09:09,520 --> 00:09:13,320
Speaker 1: when you think about it in that framework, versus if

161
00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:17,160
Speaker 1: you just go with like evil villains and good guys

162
00:09:17,320 --> 00:09:20,520
Speaker 1: who are in like this fight against evil, I feel

163
00:09:20,520 --> 00:09:23,840
Speaker 1: like you get to kind of feel like your humanity

164
00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:28,680
Speaker 1: is still relevant to them. Obviously, those kids humanities didn't,

165
00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:31,280
Speaker 1: like we're not was not obvious to the organizers of

166
00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:34,400
Speaker 1: this event, like they were being treated like chattel. You know.

167
00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:37,479
Speaker 1: It's like, you know this idea that that their individual

168
00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:40,840
Speaker 1: humanity and souls or whatever, that like the organizers would

169
00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:43,520
Speaker 1: be really into that. It's like, no, they don't. I

170
00:09:43,559 --> 00:09:46,400
Speaker 1: don't think they even clock you all as humans who

171
00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:49,480
Speaker 1: they need to care about in that way. You're just numbers,

172
00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:52,679
Speaker 1: and the higher than number of the more the revenue is.

173
00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:56,960
Speaker 1: And they wanted to stream it, and yeah, the whole

174
00:09:57,000 --> 00:10:00,840
Speaker 1: thing is so so great him and just like so

175
00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:04,480
Speaker 1: fucked up that I think people have an easier time

176
00:10:04,520 --> 00:10:07,679
Speaker 1: adding a storyline to it because then at least there's

177
00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:11,600
Speaker 1: some meaning behind it and it's not quite so fucked up.

178
00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:14,520
Speaker 1: It's it's literally less fucked up if it were in

179
00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:33,520
Speaker 1: demonic sacrifice. Let's say, clickbreak center back. Something else I've

180
00:10:33,880 --> 00:10:37,000
Speaker 1: learned from your work is this idea of conspiracy theories

181
00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:41,640
Speaker 1: often are a way to talk about or way to

182
00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:45,600
Speaker 1: demonize people for their identities without actually like saying that.

183
00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:49,760
Speaker 1: And so in this situation, I've noticed people saying like, Oh,

184
00:10:50,080 --> 00:10:53,480
Speaker 1: they're sacrificed by celebrity, And I can't help wondering if

185
00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:57,800
Speaker 1: they're using celebrity as like a stand in for it

186
00:10:57,920 --> 00:11:00,959
Speaker 1: sounds like anti semitic and racist me. Like the way

187
00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:03,400
Speaker 1: that they're the way that they're talking about it, it

188
00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:07,760
Speaker 1: almost seems like a more palatable way of coding explicit

189
00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:12,040
Speaker 1: anti semitism or racism. Yeah. Absolutely, when they like dog

190
00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:16,640
Speaker 1: whistle at Hollywood, like you know, Hollywood is controlled by

191
00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:21,360
Speaker 1: evil elites who are using these celebrity clones, and of

192
00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:24,839
Speaker 1: course they only ever go after hip hop artists, generally

193
00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:29,480
Speaker 1: black artists, and it's usually narratives about them being cloned,

194
00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:35,080
Speaker 1: about them being somehow under control of some illuminati, shadow

195
00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:40,040
Speaker 1: elite supreme force, and oftentimes like there's just so much

196
00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:43,600
Speaker 1: coded racism and so much coded anti semitism in both

197
00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:47,920
Speaker 1: of these and they just fooled together into this awful

198
00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:53,280
Speaker 1: combination of dog whistled hate. Yes, And I think it's

199
00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:55,920
Speaker 1: one of those things where they don't have to come

200
00:11:55,920 --> 00:11:58,360
Speaker 1: out and say that they're talking about Jewish people, or

201
00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:01,280
Speaker 1: they're talking about like quote what rappers, you know what

202
00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:04,480
Speaker 1: that's code for. It kind of makes it more palatable,

203
00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:05,960
Speaker 1: and then when you call it out, they have a

204
00:12:06,080 --> 00:12:09,400
Speaker 1: very convenient you know, it's like I never said, I

205
00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:12,079
Speaker 1: never explicitly said that I was talking about Jewish people.

206
00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:14,200
Speaker 1: I like, you know, I feel like the way it

207
00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:18,400
Speaker 1: kind of gives them a plausible deniability to continue trafficking

208
00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:22,040
Speaker 1: in this kind of hate without being called out, And

209
00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:23,679
Speaker 1: if you call it out, it's like, oh, well, you're

210
00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:27,400
Speaker 1: just trying to suppress my you know, my truth. Oh absolutely,

211
00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:31,560
Speaker 1: And like there are also parts of what they're saying

212
00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:36,400
Speaker 1: that like are rooted in reality and very real problems,

213
00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:39,560
Speaker 1: and so then they can kind of hide under those

214
00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:44,640
Speaker 1: as well. Like there are issues in Hollywood with like

215
00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:48,280
Speaker 1: people having too much power, and those are often like

216
00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:51,960
Speaker 1: old white men who are making decisions about like mass media,

217
00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:55,240
Speaker 1: and like that's an issue, right, and like in general,

218
00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:58,080
Speaker 1: do we do we idolize celebrities a bit too much?

219
00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:01,440
Speaker 1: Like probably, like those are like real conversations for us

220
00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:05,040
Speaker 1: to be having. There are real systemic issues to like

221
00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:07,679
Speaker 1: be looking at here, but they often kind of hide

222
00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:11,959
Speaker 1: under them, or like vaguely referenced them in a coded

223
00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:16,560
Speaker 1: enough way that it, like to an on larker, might

224
00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:19,600
Speaker 1: not look problematic, and it gives them kind of a

225
00:13:19,679 --> 00:13:22,600
Speaker 1: blanket hide under. Yeah, I've noticed that, and it's so

226
00:13:22,679 --> 00:13:25,800
Speaker 1: frustrating because it makes it so hard to call out.

227
00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:27,760
Speaker 1: It's like another reason why I appreciate the work of

228
00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:30,720
Speaker 1: yourself and other folks who speak out against us on TikTok,

229
00:13:30,760 --> 00:13:33,640
Speaker 1: because they, I think that they make content that is

230
00:13:33,679 --> 00:13:37,440
Speaker 1: specifically hard to call out, and so like it takes

231
00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:39,760
Speaker 1: a little bit of a nuance to do it well.

232
00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:41,800
Speaker 1: And so I so appreciate the work that you're doing

233
00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:44,680
Speaker 1: in terms of saying like, well, let's actually unpack what's

234
00:13:44,679 --> 00:13:47,000
Speaker 1: going on here. Thank you. I appreciate it. It it

235
00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:50,040
Speaker 1: takes a lot a lot of time, so I genuinely

236
00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:53,520
Speaker 1: appreciate it. You see it so much Like there was

237
00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:56,880
Speaker 1: one big defunk that I did a couple of months ago,

238
00:13:56,920 --> 00:14:00,600
Speaker 1: I think, but there was a viral video about anxious

239
00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:05,440
Speaker 1: civilizations in Antarctica, and the end of that rabbit hole

240
00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:08,960
Speaker 1: was like esoteric Nazi ship and I have to do

241
00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:13,800
Speaker 1: this like three minute explanation of like okay, like here's

242
00:14:13,840 --> 00:14:16,600
Speaker 1: like what is actually going on here on like the

243
00:14:16,679 --> 00:14:21,360
Speaker 1: surface level, they're saying like Antarctica like maybe had humans

244
00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:23,040
Speaker 1: on it before. But then if you look at like

245
00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:26,120
Speaker 1: the actual language they're using, and they're saying like Hyperborea,

246
00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:29,640
Speaker 1: which is very much a part of kind of esoteric

247
00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:34,640
Speaker 1: Nazi mythology. So what people engage with as if it's

248
00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:38,760
Speaker 1: like just a normal, fun conspiracy theory like on TikTok

249
00:14:39,160 --> 00:14:42,880
Speaker 1: is actually literally Nazi mythology. And I think that really

250
00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:47,480
Speaker 1: helps us see how these conspiracy theories might seem harmless

251
00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:51,320
Speaker 1: but actually can be a pathway to much more dangerous

252
00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:54,800
Speaker 1: and extremist lines of thinking. I can, at least anecdotally

253
00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:57,920
Speaker 1: say that, like when I engage with one or two

254
00:14:57,960 --> 00:15:01,280
Speaker 1: conspiracy theories on TikTok, then all of a sudden, I'm

255
00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:04,240
Speaker 1: fed more and they get more and more extreme. I

256
00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:07,760
Speaker 1: think that like there's absolutely a link, Like we know

257
00:15:07,920 --> 00:15:12,240
Speaker 1: that conspiracy theories almost always end in anti semitism, and

258
00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:17,080
Speaker 1: they decrease kind of your trust towards other other groups

259
00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:19,360
Speaker 1: of people who might not be like you, and they

260
00:15:19,520 --> 00:15:22,800
Speaker 1: they decrease your pro social behavior, and they have kind

261
00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:25,960
Speaker 1: of all these effects on society at large. But it

262
00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:28,880
Speaker 1: does kind of also seem like they are changing the

263
00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:31,600
Speaker 1: way we think, like where so many people have like

264
00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:35,840
Speaker 1: opted out of reality and are choosing kind of just

265
00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:39,960
Speaker 1: like these escapist conspiracy theories to believe in rather than accepting,

266
00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:43,360
Speaker 1: like right now, reality is pretty tough. Yeah, it's it's

267
00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:45,720
Speaker 1: so interesting how you put that. I do feel like

268
00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:49,400
Speaker 1: an entire subsection of the world has just checked out

269
00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:54,000
Speaker 1: of reality, and it's like it's like easier to live

270
00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:59,080
Speaker 1: in a conspiracy theory because, like you said, reality is

271
00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:01,840
Speaker 1: pretty scary. The fact that, you know, it's not really

272
00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:05,880
Speaker 1: some Satanist group, it's just capitalism trying to get your money,

273
00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:09,040
Speaker 1: and that's what killed eight people. That's pretty grim. I

274
00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:13,080
Speaker 1: can understand wanting to check out of that reality and

275
00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:19,600
Speaker 1: instead believe something that is like weirdly more comforting, you know. Yeah, absolutely,

276
00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:22,680
Speaker 1: for some reason, like for the human brain, it is

277
00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:25,360
Speaker 1: more comforting to believe that there's like a shadow elite

278
00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:28,800
Speaker 1: trying to get Yeah, because at least that's a simple answer, right,

279
00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:31,400
Speaker 1: that has a pretty simple fix. If there were some

280
00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:35,600
Speaker 1: like unimaginably powerful group in charge of the world, like

281
00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:37,880
Speaker 1: that would be kind of great because like they're clearly

282
00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:40,840
Speaker 1: doing a bad job, Like let's get rid of them.

283
00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:44,000
Speaker 1: But no, like there's a lot of systems that are

284
00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:48,640
Speaker 1: like interwoven with each other and causing problems that we

285
00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:51,840
Speaker 1: are like reliant on those systems, and we're complicit in

286
00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:56,320
Speaker 1: those systems, and like we all have to also change

287
00:16:56,440 --> 00:17:00,880
Speaker 1: our own behaviors to like fix these huge problems, and

288
00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:03,680
Speaker 1: they're gonna take years to fix. There is no like

289
00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:07,359
Speaker 1: on off switch for fixing these things. Like it's years

290
00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:11,720
Speaker 1: and years of collective work, and that is so much

291
00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:17,760
Speaker 1: more mental energy and like long term physical energy than

292
00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:21,199
Speaker 1: just being like, oh, it's just evil Jews and control

293
00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:24,240
Speaker 1: of the world. Right, I guess I have one kind

294
00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:27,520
Speaker 1: of tough question that I've been wrestling with, is is

295
00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:30,679
Speaker 1: there a line between telling people who were at astra

296
00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:34,560
Speaker 1: world that they can't recount their own understanding of their experience.

297
00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:36,760
Speaker 1: Like I'm sure you saw that video of the young

298
00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:39,840
Speaker 1: woman who was like, when I bought this ticket, I

299
00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:43,720
Speaker 1: didn't notice all the different you know, iconography or hints

300
00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:45,960
Speaker 1: that this was a sacrifice, and I believe that was there,

301
00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:48,800
Speaker 1: like it was demonic all the hypnotic noises. Is there

302
00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:54,359
Speaker 1: a line between telling someone that they're allowed to have

303
00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:59,160
Speaker 1: their own perspective of their experience and like allowing room

304
00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:04,560
Speaker 1: for that, but also not spreading harmful, damaging conspiracy theories

305
00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:06,760
Speaker 1: and trafficking in them. Like, is there is there a

306
00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:09,320
Speaker 1: line where we can make space for both or what

307
00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:11,160
Speaker 1: do you do? You have any thoughts? Yeah? I mean

308
00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:14,640
Speaker 1: I think that people are allowed to have their own

309
00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:18,800
Speaker 1: experiences and they're allowed to kind of talk about those.

310
00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:21,879
Speaker 1: The question is do we amplify them. I don't think

311
00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:25,320
Speaker 1: that we should ever tell somebody, no, you aren't allowed

312
00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:28,040
Speaker 1: to think this, But the question is do we then

313
00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:31,520
Speaker 1: spread that to another fifteen million people who weren't there

314
00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:34,040
Speaker 1: and are just going to kind of take your work

315
00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:37,520
Speaker 1: for it. And also believe that the power that something

316
00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:40,000
Speaker 1: like TikTok has when it comes to virility and spreading

317
00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:45,119
Speaker 1: a message is really kind of unprecedented. So we have

318
00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:50,240
Speaker 1: to be having conversations and honestly tough questions about like

319
00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:55,480
Speaker 1: what is doing the most harm versus the most good

320
00:18:55,840 --> 00:18:58,639
Speaker 1: in this sort of situation. And it's like all of

321
00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:00,560
Speaker 1: it is going to be shitty as there's like I

322
00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:03,600
Speaker 1: wish that there were ways that everybody can be happy,

323
00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:06,880
Speaker 1: and the whole thing is just like awful to think

324
00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:10,360
Speaker 1: about in general. So, yeah, it's a tough question. You're

325
00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:26,439
Speaker 1: not wrong more after a quick break, let's get right

326
00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:30,560
Speaker 1: back into it. Satanic, ritualistic sacrifice. We're not the only

327
00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:33,320
Speaker 1: kinds of unsubstantiated claims that we heard in the aftermath

328
00:19:33,359 --> 00:19:37,600
Speaker 1: of Astra World. Houston Police Chief Troy Finner initially said

329
00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:41,240
Speaker 1: in a televised press conference, and an unidentified attendee caused

330
00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:43,760
Speaker 1: a panic by injecting a security guard with a needle

331
00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:46,400
Speaker 1: full of an unknown drug, causing him to pass out.

332
00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:49,240
Speaker 1: Dinner said that the security guard was revived after he

333
00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:53,119
Speaker 1: was given narcon, a prescription to treat opioid overdose, and

334
00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:55,360
Speaker 1: he also said that medics confirmed yet a needle mark

335
00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:57,240
Speaker 1: on his neck. Now, as soon as I heard this,

336
00:19:57,840 --> 00:20:00,119
Speaker 1: I thought it sounded kind of like the drugs or

337
00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:03,280
Speaker 1: horror stories I'd heard during my adolescence growing up. And

338
00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:06,040
Speaker 1: one rogue bad actor causing a panic that led to

339
00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:09,120
Speaker 1: a deadly stampede is a pretty convenient explanation that kind

340
00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:11,280
Speaker 1: of likes the organizers off the hook for their part

341
00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:14,400
Speaker 1: in the deadly festival. But later then I walked back

342
00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:18,040
Speaker 1: those statements, saying the security officer had not been injected

343
00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:20,320
Speaker 1: with drugs after all, and instead had just been hit

344
00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:24,080
Speaker 1: on the head. Conspiracy theories cast blame on Boogeyman instead

345
00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:26,840
Speaker 1: of on the actual real world systems and individuals who

346
00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:29,479
Speaker 1: are at fault. Kind of the flip side of that

347
00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:32,160
Speaker 1: for me is that so many of the first hand

348
00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:35,520
Speaker 1: videos on TikTok are from people who were there, and

349
00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:38,480
Speaker 1: in terms of like what we amplify and what we don't,

350
00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:43,360
Speaker 1: I feel like some of the most compelling TikTok's that

351
00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:48,400
Speaker 1: challenge the organizers and the authorities, you know, like very

352
00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:52,080
Speaker 1: convenient version of events. When the tragedy first happened, I

353
00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:54,320
Speaker 1: was like, oh, they're the cops are saying that somebody

354
00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:56,920
Speaker 1: was like stabbed with a with a needle, and that

355
00:20:56,840 --> 00:20:59,160
Speaker 1: that they caused the stampede. And I was like, that's

356
00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:01,600
Speaker 1: a very convenient narrative. And then when you go to

357
00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:05,879
Speaker 1: TikTok and see these firsthand videos of obvious overcrowding, like

358
00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:09,920
Speaker 1: obvious like like dangerous conditions, part of me was like,

359
00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:13,520
Speaker 1: I am glad that young people have access to platforms

360
00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:16,679
Speaker 1: like TikTok where they can say no, no, no authorities.

361
00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:22,320
Speaker 1: Here is what I experienced, and rather than amplifying conspiracy theories.

362
00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:25,720
Speaker 1: I wish that we were seeing more, you know, more

363
00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:30,119
Speaker 1: accounts that challenge the authorities and the organizers very convenient

364
00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:33,680
Speaker 1: narrative of what happened to get accountability. And so I

365
00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:35,400
Speaker 1: think it's interesting how it can be like a double

366
00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:40,000
Speaker 1: edged thing. It can be used to spread conspiracy or

367
00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:44,000
Speaker 1: used to challenge official narratives that let people off the

368
00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:47,680
Speaker 1: hook who had power to stop this. Oh. Absolutely, It's

369
00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:50,080
Speaker 1: one of my favorite things about TikTok is just like

370
00:21:50,119 --> 00:21:53,000
Speaker 1: there's good and bad, and I think obviously, just like

371
00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:58,879
Speaker 1: my work of analyzing you know, misinstration disinformation on TikTok is,

372
00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:02,160
Speaker 1: oftentimes people look at that and then assume that I

373
00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:05,240
Speaker 1: hate the app and I really don't. Like there are

374
00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:09,400
Speaker 1: really phenomenal things that it offers, like when it comes

375
00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:14,000
Speaker 1: to like learning and like being exposed to different ideas

376
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:17,960
Speaker 1: than you might already have. Like TikTok really is capable

377
00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:20,800
Speaker 1: of doing that if you create that sort of feed

378
00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:22,760
Speaker 1: in general, and if you are that type of person

379
00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:26,200
Speaker 1: who goes looking for that, and it absolutely I think

380
00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:28,960
Speaker 1: even with the astral world, like there is both there

381
00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:31,679
Speaker 1: is the conspiracy theories and the ideas that it is

382
00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:34,880
Speaker 1: a satanic ritual. And then there's also people who are

383
00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:38,480
Speaker 1: looking at that and just seeing the overcrowding and the

384
00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:42,760
Speaker 1: poor management that went on. So like, yes, and again

385
00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:45,840
Speaker 1: tough question because how do you balance those How do

386
00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:49,760
Speaker 1: you have an algorithm that can tell the difference and

387
00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:53,879
Speaker 1: promote what is like honest you know, experiences of what

388
00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:57,320
Speaker 1: happened versus like conspiracy theories about it. Yeah, it's a

389
00:22:57,359 --> 00:22:59,920
Speaker 1: tough question. But I'm happy that there are folks like

390
00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:03,000
Speaker 1: you who are asking those questions and sort of creating

391
00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:05,560
Speaker 1: those conversations that I think that we need to have. Yeah,

392
00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:08,159
Speaker 1: we definitely need to be having them because this conspiracy

393
00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:13,639
Speaker 1: theory environment on TikTok is not sustainable for democracy or

394
00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:16,800
Speaker 1: just like a healthy environment for a lot of kids

395
00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:19,720
Speaker 1: to be growing up. And like they should be challenging

396
00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:23,159
Speaker 1: the narratives, absolutely, but I don't think conspiracy theories actually

397
00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:26,159
Speaker 1: challenge the narratives. They just are kind of how do

398
00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:30,159
Speaker 1: I put this, Conspiracies don't challenge narratives, They are just

399
00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:34,200
Speaker 1: dressed up as something that does. That is I completely

400
00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:36,240
Speaker 1: agree with you, even know what you mean, right. It

401
00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:40,520
Speaker 1: seems like like with Astro World, challenging the narrative would

402
00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:44,919
Speaker 1: be holding the people who would power accountable. It's not.

403
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:48,080
Speaker 1: If it's Satan, then like we're not going to be

404
00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:50,639
Speaker 1: able to sue Satan. So it just like lets people

405
00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:54,040
Speaker 1: who let this happen off the hook. But it's dressed

406
00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:56,240
Speaker 1: up in this way of like, oh, this is like

407
00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:59,840
Speaker 1: an edgy y'all aren't ready for this, like edgy take

408
00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:01,800
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Like it's like dressed up

409
00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:04,480
Speaker 1: as if it is challenging a narrative, but in fact

410
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:08,760
Speaker 1: it is creating a convenient supernatural scapegoat so that those

411
00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:11,879
Speaker 1: who actually had the power to prevent this can continue

412
00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:16,560
Speaker 1: to like avoid accountability. Absolutely. That was so so I'll

413
00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:18,480
Speaker 1: put you to no words out of my mouth. That

414
00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:22,159
Speaker 1: was really you've nailed it there, because like if you

415
00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:25,560
Speaker 1: subscribe to this idea that it's a Satanic ritual, then

416
00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:30,280
Speaker 1: like that offers zero answers about like what cost it,

417
00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:33,320
Speaker 1: what we're all the bad decisions that led up to this,

418
00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:36,480
Speaker 1: And then it offers also no solutions for how do

419
00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:39,919
Speaker 1: we prevent this in the future. The only thing that

420
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:42,640
Speaker 1: it tells you to do is except Jesus is your

421
00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:45,800
Speaker 1: Lord and samet gear. That's it. And like that doesn't

422
00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:49,800
Speaker 1: fix any problems about concert over crowding. Also, and like

423
00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:52,000
Speaker 1: this is something that a lot of the times I

424
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:54,960
Speaker 1: think we miss when it comes to covering conspiracy theories,

425
00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:57,679
Speaker 1: but on a much kind of smaller scale, not on

426
00:24:57,720 --> 00:24:59,840
Speaker 1: the societal scale, but on a smaller scale of like

427
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:03,880
Speaker 1: there are real victims here, Like there are people who die,

428
00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:07,840
Speaker 1: and people who have very severe injuries, and a lot

429
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:10,760
Speaker 1: of people who are traumatized. And all of those people

430
00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:14,199
Speaker 1: have families. And then when you go around saying it

431
00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:18,119
Speaker 1: was part of a satanic sacrifice, like how is that

432
00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:21,119
Speaker 1: going to make them feel? And like what are the

433
00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:25,600
Speaker 1: consequences for that? Of now you have family members who

434
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:29,040
Speaker 1: are grieving their loved ones, and if they go look

435
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:32,360
Speaker 1: for their loved ones online, they're going to see them

436
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:36,800
Speaker 1: incorporated into conspiracy theories about this being some sort of

437
00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:41,000
Speaker 1: like Hollywood hip hop sacrifice. And even worse, like if

438
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:45,080
Speaker 1: they are a religious person and they buy into that themselves,

439
00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:47,280
Speaker 1: like what would that do to them? So like those

440
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:51,119
Speaker 1: are really heartbreaking, very real world effects that these types

441
00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:55,680
Speaker 1: of conspiracy theories can have on the victims and their families. Yeah,

442
00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:57,919
Speaker 1: and I think that you're exactly right that we don't

443
00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:01,840
Speaker 1: talk enough about the people who are harmed when be

444
00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:04,199
Speaker 1: traffic and conspiracy theories and spread them in this way,

445
00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:08,160
Speaker 1: the people, like the actual real world harm that it's causing. Yeah,

446
00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:11,000
Speaker 1: I mean there's the ideological harm in the way. It's

447
00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:14,000
Speaker 1: like harming society at large to think this way because

448
00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:18,760
Speaker 1: like this again solves no problems, offers no solutions, and

449
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:22,800
Speaker 1: lets people check out it. Lets really the organizers and

450
00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:24,959
Speaker 1: the people who are responsible off the hook in a

451
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:28,680
Speaker 1: lot of ways. But then it also causes harm to

452
00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:32,119
Speaker 1: like real humans who are in the process of like

453
00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:37,000
Speaker 1: the processing trauma and grieving and trying to understand what happened.

454
00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:39,120
Speaker 1: And now if they go looking for it they see

455
00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:43,840
Speaker 1: satanic ritual. That's not fair to them. It's really not well.

456
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:46,520
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm so happy that you're in this fight.

457
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:49,320
Speaker 1: Friend of the show, you know, I I look to

458
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:54,200
Speaker 1: you whatever there's a big thing happening that involves conspiracy theories.

459
00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:56,080
Speaker 1: I always look to your content and it really helps

460
00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:58,199
Speaker 1: me put it in perspective. So thank you for that.

461
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:01,600
Speaker 1: Thank you. I'm I'm happy to be able to help.

462
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:05,320
Speaker 1: I love your show, always listening, I love coming around here. Yeah,

463
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:07,760
Speaker 1: where can folks keep up with all the amazing work

464
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:11,040
Speaker 1: that you're up to. So my TikTok is topology, and

465
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:13,040
Speaker 1: I'd make a lot of kind of like longer form

466
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:18,119
Speaker 1: TikTok videos debunking different conspiracies on there. My Twitter is

467
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:21,320
Speaker 1: Abby a s R. In my Instagram is Abby s R.

468
00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:25,000
Speaker 1: All of them are resources and I hope too that

469
00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:32,040
Speaker 1: they can help people. Got a story about an interesting

470
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:34,119
Speaker 1: thing in tech, I just want to say hi. You

471
00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:36,320
Speaker 1: can reach us at Hello at tang godi dot com.

472
00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:38,720
Speaker 1: You can also find transcripts for today's episode at tangdi

473
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:40,840
Speaker 1: dot com. There Are No Girls on the Internet was

474
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:43,480
Speaker 1: created by me bridget Toad. It's a production of iHeart

475
00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:46,920
Speaker 1: Radio and Unboss creative Jonathan Stricklett as our executive producer.

476
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:50,480
Speaker 1: Ary Harrison is our producer and sound engineer. Michael Amato

477
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:54,080
Speaker 1: is our contributing producer. I'm your host, bridget Toad. If

478
00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:55,840
Speaker 1: you want to help us grow, rate and review us

479
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:59,040
Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts. For more podcasts from My Heart Radio,

480
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:01,200
Speaker 1: check out the iHeart radi you app, Apple podcast, or

481
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:15,360
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. H m HM