WEBVTT - Are we living in a computer simulation? 0:00:02.440 --> 0:00:05.480 Get in touch with technology with tech Stuff from how 0:00:05.519 --> 0:00:14.080 stuff looks dot com. Hey there, everyone, and welcome to 0:00:14.240 --> 0:00:18.480 tech Stuff. I am Jonathan Strickland, the host of tech Stuff, 0:00:18.640 --> 0:00:21.720 and I am Lauren Volkbaum, the other host of tech Stuff. Yes, 0:00:22.400 --> 0:00:24.919 if we had introduced ourselves in the opposite order, I 0:00:24.960 --> 0:00:29.080 would be the other host of tech Stuff. We're co hosts. Really, yeah, 0:00:29.200 --> 0:00:31.600 it's uh. You know, this is a complicated issue, and 0:00:31.640 --> 0:00:33.959 in fact, I think it'd be a lot simpler if 0:00:33.960 --> 0:00:37.080 we just simulated it. What would it be a lot simpler? 0:00:37.120 --> 0:00:39.559 I think it would actually be more complicated. You know 0:00:39.600 --> 0:00:41.560 what We're gonna find out right here and now, because 0:00:41.600 --> 0:00:44.239 this episode is all about do we live in a 0:00:44.280 --> 0:00:48.440 computer simulation? And in fact, the reason why we're even 0:00:48.520 --> 0:00:53.080 talking about this is a few years ago a philosopher, 0:00:53.720 --> 0:00:56.120 and boy is that a surprise to no one. A 0:00:56.120 --> 0:01:00.480 philosopher by the name of Nick Bostrom who works at 0:01:00.760 --> 0:01:05.880 a little um yeah, tiny, like in academic circles. They 0:01:05.920 --> 0:01:10.479 have some swagger. It's the University of Oxford. Yeah, yeah, 0:01:10.600 --> 0:01:15.160 as far as the boffins go at Swagger City, right anyway, Yeah, 0:01:15.200 --> 0:01:17.560 he works with the University of Oxford and he's a 0:01:17.720 --> 0:01:22.199 philosopher employed there, so his job is to sit around 0:01:22.240 --> 0:01:24.920 and think about the nature of reality, and he presented 0:01:24.959 --> 0:01:28.240 an interesting thought experiment. He said, do we live in 0:01:28.280 --> 0:01:33.000 a computer simulation? Is everything that we experience and everything 0:01:33.000 --> 0:01:37.600 that's around us actually just the product of some sort 0:01:37.640 --> 0:01:41.520 of computer program in a universe larger than our own? 0:01:41.959 --> 0:01:44.280 And we'll talk about you know what led him into 0:01:44.360 --> 0:01:48.480 this kind of line of thinking and his arguments presenting 0:01:48.960 --> 0:01:51.600 the likelihood that we are actually in a computer simulation. 0:01:51.840 --> 0:01:54.920 But before we begin in that, I thought it'd be 0:01:54.920 --> 0:01:58.840 interesting to look back quite a way. Is actually because 0:01:59.080 --> 0:02:04.000 this idea that reality as we understand it is not 0:02:04.000 --> 0:02:08.000 not exactly new at all. We've been pondering for basically 0:02:08.240 --> 0:02:10.760 as long as we could ponder things, whether or not 0:02:11.000 --> 0:02:14.640 our our experience of reality is reality. Yeah, and and 0:02:14.680 --> 0:02:16.840 part of that is understandable. I mean, we know for 0:02:16.919 --> 0:02:20.360 a fact that reality consists of stuff that is beyond 0:02:20.520 --> 0:02:24.160 our perception, right, Oh, sure, absolutely, Like I don't know 0:02:24.240 --> 0:02:26.960 when the last time you looked into the infrared spectrum was, 0:02:27.000 --> 0:02:28.919 but the last time for me was never because it's 0:02:28.960 --> 0:02:33.120 outside my visual acuity. I can't see in the infrared spectrum, 0:02:33.200 --> 0:02:35.640 all right, And there's lots of lots of things above 0:02:35.680 --> 0:02:38.160 our scale of hearing, above and below our scale of hearing. Um, 0:02:38.200 --> 0:02:40.040 if you talk to sharks, they can they can hear 0:02:40.040 --> 0:02:43.920 different stuff, but my dogs totally different stuff that I 0:02:43.919 --> 0:02:47.359 can hear. Yeah, And and even even before we had 0:02:47.440 --> 0:02:49.959 as much scientific data about that as we do now. 0:02:50.120 --> 0:02:51.679 You know, if we had done the research, we could 0:02:51.680 --> 0:02:53.760 tell you the exact spectrums that we can see within 0:02:53.919 --> 0:02:57.399 but outside of visual which is a pretty good word 0:02:57.440 --> 0:02:59.800 for it. But um, but but yeah, you know, it's 0:03:00.080 --> 0:03:02.760 even long, long, long times before that people are pondering 0:03:02.760 --> 0:03:06.639 these questions and all kinds of literature. Uh goes into 0:03:06.720 --> 0:03:10.040 literature and philosophy right right all the back in one 0:03:10.080 --> 0:03:13.359 one of the famous, famous examples of this kind of 0:03:13.400 --> 0:03:19.000 philosophy was proposed by a fellow named Renee Descartes, about 0:03:19.040 --> 0:03:22.880 whom Monty Python had some rude things to sing if 0:03:22.919 --> 0:03:25.880 you know that your philosopher's song. But Descartes, um, I 0:03:25.919 --> 0:03:30.560 think therefore I am uh fellow. He wrote something called 0:03:30.560 --> 0:03:35.000 the Meditations on First Philosophy, and he presented an very 0:03:35.000 --> 0:03:39.640 similar thought exercise to the one that Nick Moostrom mentioned. Now, 0:03:39.760 --> 0:03:43.320 his was called the Evil Demon or sometimes people refer 0:03:43.400 --> 0:03:47.680 to it as the evil genius problem. And he said, well, 0:03:47.720 --> 0:03:51.760 what if everything that I renee, I think therefore I 0:03:51.800 --> 0:03:57.160 am Descartes experience is actually just an illusion that's generated 0:03:57.200 --> 0:03:59.640 by an evil force. In his case, he was home 0:03:59.680 --> 0:04:04.240 on all demon. So there's this malevolent creature that is 0:04:04.280 --> 0:04:08.880 capable of creating everything that Decard is experiencing. So while 0:04:08.960 --> 0:04:12.640 he thinks he's walking around and being really smart and 0:04:12.720 --> 0:04:17.960 chatting with other smart people and having a croissan um, 0:04:18.000 --> 0:04:22.599 in reality, he's not. He's just he's just a consciousness 0:04:22.640 --> 0:04:25.800 that's being manipulated by this evil demon and everything that's 0:04:25.839 --> 0:04:29.320 happening to him is an illusion that's created by him. 0:04:29.400 --> 0:04:33.360 And this is unfalsifiable, right. It means that that means 0:04:33.360 --> 0:04:36.040 that there's no way that you can prove that it's wrong. 0:04:36.320 --> 0:04:38.440 It's like if I say, there's a six ft invisible 0:04:38.520 --> 0:04:42.039 bunny walking around behind me all the time, makes no 0:04:42.040 --> 0:04:44.839 noise and has no scent, right, and you can't touch it. 0:04:44.880 --> 0:04:48.159 That you cannot touch. Yeah, that well, that there's no 0:04:48.200 --> 0:04:50.880 way for me to prove that you're wrong. I will 0:04:50.920 --> 0:04:52.520 sit here and I will think that you are crazy 0:04:52.640 --> 0:04:56.680 or Donnie Darko, but that uh, you know, or Deborah 0:04:56.760 --> 0:04:59.839 Donka don't darko, I don't know, I mean, or the 0:05:00.040 --> 0:05:04.560 character in in Harvey there yes, another yes, but but 0:05:04.960 --> 0:05:06.960 you know, there's no way for me to prove that 0:05:07.080 --> 0:05:11.880 there's not a six ft invisible, untouchable, unsensible, unhearable bunny 0:05:11.960 --> 0:05:16.440 behind you. So that's that's called that. It's called unfalsifiable. 0:05:17.000 --> 0:05:22.120 That means it is not scientific. Scientific principles premises these 0:05:22.160 --> 0:05:26.400 sort of things. They are falsifiable, meaning that there should 0:05:26.480 --> 0:05:29.640 be a set of criteria under which you would say 0:05:29.680 --> 0:05:32.719 this is not true. Right now. It does not mean 0:05:32.760 --> 0:05:35.200 that what you're saying isn't true. It just means it 0:05:35.200 --> 0:05:37.640 has to be possible, that has to be within the 0:05:37.640 --> 0:05:39.520 realm of possible. In order for something to be proved, 0:05:39.560 --> 0:05:41.880 it has to be able to be disproved exactly. And 0:05:41.960 --> 0:05:45.679 so if it's unfalsifiable, it's not scientific. Now I should 0:05:45.680 --> 0:05:50.360 also stress if it's unfalsifiable and unscientific, that also does 0:05:50.400 --> 0:05:53.720 not mean it's not true. It could be true. It 0:05:53.720 --> 0:05:56.680 can absolutely be String theory is a great example of this. 0:05:57.120 --> 0:05:59.559 We call it a theory, but but some people argue 0:05:59.560 --> 0:06:02.000 it's a fullilosophy. Well, it's a it's yeah, it's not 0:06:02.000 --> 0:06:04.760 a mathematical theory. And I get into arguments sometimes of 0:06:04.800 --> 0:06:07.960 people on Facebook about this because the theory is the 0:06:08.040 --> 0:06:10.599 word that has many many meanings. The mathematical meaning of 0:06:10.640 --> 0:06:14.240 it is is something that has been proven is true, 0:06:15.200 --> 0:06:18.440 whereas he has has been exercised the whole scientific theory 0:06:18.600 --> 0:06:21.080 versus I have a theory which is really more like 0:06:21.200 --> 0:06:23.320 I have an idea of why this is the way 0:06:23.360 --> 0:06:25.440 it is. Scientific theory and that kind of theory are 0:06:25.440 --> 0:06:29.240 two different things. But anyway, uh yeah, string theory would 0:06:29.279 --> 0:06:31.840 say that the entire universe is made up of these tiny, 0:06:31.880 --> 0:06:35.200 little vibrating strings. And we're talking like tiny, as in 0:06:35.360 --> 0:06:39.039 tinier than sub atomic particles, tiny, quite small, and that 0:06:39.120 --> 0:06:42.719 the way they vibrate that's what makes stuff what it is. Well, 0:06:42.839 --> 0:06:46.120 mathematically this makes sense, but there is no way we 0:06:46.279 --> 0:06:49.800 can uh we can observe this or test this, so 0:06:49.839 --> 0:06:56.800 therefore it's unfalsifiable and unscientific using that particular definition. Uh So, 0:06:56.920 --> 0:06:59.680 same sort of thing here with Renee Dicart and his theory. 0:06:59.720 --> 0:07:01.840 And this is not again, not the first time this 0:07:01.880 --> 0:07:04.279 idea has popped up. It's one of the really famous ones. 0:07:04.279 --> 0:07:09.920 And that's back in so if we look at the 0:07:09.960 --> 0:07:14.280 modern version, you've got Nick Bostrom talking about a computer simulation, 0:07:14.360 --> 0:07:19.520 and his whole argument hinges on this idea of trans 0:07:19.680 --> 0:07:24.480 humanism or the singularity. So we kind of have to 0:07:24.520 --> 0:07:27.480 talk about what the singularity is so that we can 0:07:27.560 --> 0:07:30.640 finally get around to this whole computer simulation problem, right, 0:07:30.880 --> 0:07:34.640 and and and also talk about trans human because that 0:07:34.720 --> 0:07:40.360 that's basically a fancy term for stuff. Yeah, it's it's 0:07:40.400 --> 0:07:43.200 it's a it's a fancy term for saying what happens 0:07:43.600 --> 0:07:47.920 when we reach a point in uh, in advances in 0:07:48.040 --> 0:07:52.840 science and medicine, in biology, where we can transform ourselves 0:07:52.920 --> 0:07:57.240 to a point where we are no longer strictly speaking human, Right, Like, 0:07:57.280 --> 0:08:01.320 we have altered ourselves on some fundamental level, and we 0:08:01.400 --> 0:08:05.000 aren't we we wouldn't be human as we recognize it today. Right, 0:08:05.080 --> 0:08:08.000 that our our technology has bonded to us in a way, 0:08:08.080 --> 0:08:10.720 or that our science has bonded to us. Right, we 0:08:10.840 --> 0:08:13.560 we've understood genetics enough so that we're all mutants like 0:08:13.600 --> 0:08:16.760 in the X Men, or we have all become cyborgs, 0:08:17.000 --> 0:08:21.360 or we have all transmitted our consciousness into computers and 0:08:21.400 --> 0:08:24.680 there are no physical versions of us anymore. And these 0:08:24.680 --> 0:08:28.680 are all different ways that we could, in theory become 0:08:28.720 --> 0:08:32.520 trans human. So it's a very generic term that spreads 0:08:32.559 --> 0:08:37.760 across multiple possibilities. There's no one trans human because really, 0:08:37.800 --> 0:08:39.280 I mean, the thing is that we don't know because 0:08:39.280 --> 0:08:40.920 we're not there yet. It hasn't happened yet as it 0:08:40.920 --> 0:08:42.200 turns out. I mean, there's a few of us who 0:08:42.240 --> 0:08:45.760 are a little wacky, but but it doesn't mean some 0:08:45.800 --> 0:08:48.080 of us are clearly better than others. I mean, okay, yeah, 0:08:48.240 --> 0:08:52.600 I mean we're not we're not naming names, but we're 0:08:52.640 --> 0:08:56.720 pretty awesome. But no, So that's the idea of trans humanism. 0:08:56.800 --> 0:08:59.880 Singularity is sort of one of the pathways where we 0:09:00.040 --> 0:09:02.920 could reach this sort of trans human future. And the 0:09:02.960 --> 0:09:07.720 singularity is this idea that several futurists have proposed about 0:09:08.240 --> 0:09:13.320 the fact that technology advances are continuing at a faster 0:09:13.400 --> 0:09:18.120 and faster pace each each year, really exponentially exponentially. You've 0:09:18.160 --> 0:09:21.680 got things like Moore's law, where, depending on how you're 0:09:21.679 --> 0:09:24.600 defining it, essentially the computer power is doubling every two 0:09:24.640 --> 0:09:28.360 years um, but other technological advances are are having at 0:09:28.360 --> 0:09:31.880 an even faster rate that we will eventually come to 0:09:31.880 --> 0:09:35.480 a point where we are advancing continuously with no break 0:09:35.600 --> 0:09:39.720 between the generation. Right if you think of like operating 0:09:39.720 --> 0:09:41.840 systems and how they come out, like you know Windows 0:09:41.840 --> 0:09:45.920 seven and then Windows But then you think, all right, well, 0:09:45.960 --> 0:09:48.200 then down the road it might be the every six months, 0:09:48.240 --> 0:09:49.640 and then it might be every three months, and then 0:09:49.640 --> 0:09:52.240 it might just be that every single day there's something 0:09:52.280 --> 0:09:54.520 new that's being incorporated, or every second or every n 0:09:54.640 --> 0:09:58.400 a second. So at that point, things are changing so 0:09:58.440 --> 0:10:00.760 fast that you cannot even define in the era you 0:10:00.800 --> 0:10:04.360 are in because there's nothing like within within one moment, 0:10:04.760 --> 0:10:08.560 uh you have changed so much that it's it's pointless 0:10:08.600 --> 0:10:12.559 to try and defind a series of moments. Right at 0:10:12.600 --> 0:10:15.280 this point in our future, we would hit what is 0:10:15.320 --> 0:10:19.240 called the singularity. And part of one of the defining 0:10:19.280 --> 0:10:21.800 features of the singularity is it's impossible for us to 0:10:21.800 --> 0:10:24.880 say what will happen once we hit that point, because 0:10:25.120 --> 0:10:27.400 by its very nature, it's going to evolve so fast 0:10:27.440 --> 0:10:30.960 that we cannot conceive of what I mean. It's it's 0:10:31.000 --> 0:10:33.839 kind of pointless to talk about it too much. Doesn't 0:10:33.880 --> 0:10:37.439 stop me, but it's pointless. It doesn't stop philosophers. Either 0:10:37.720 --> 0:10:40.040 doesn't stop me. And there are many pointless discussions that 0:10:40.080 --> 0:10:43.800 you cannot stop me from having. This is one of them, anyway, 0:10:44.440 --> 0:10:49.679 So the singularity could happen in various ways again, biology, science, technology, 0:10:49.720 --> 0:10:53.800 These are all the different avenues that that could lead 0:10:53.840 --> 0:10:58.360 to the singularity or could be you know, yeah and uh. 0:10:58.480 --> 0:11:03.040 And that forms the very crux of Bostrom's argument. Let's 0:11:03.080 --> 0:11:05.079 take a quick break for a word from our sponsor, 0:11:05.440 --> 0:11:09.440 and now back to the show. So Nick Bostrom's argument 0:11:10.040 --> 0:11:13.560 uh is worded this way here. Here's from a paper 0:11:13.600 --> 0:11:18.360 he wrote on the subject, A technologically mature post human 0:11:18.600 --> 0:11:24.160 civilization would have enormous computing power. Based on this empirical fact, 0:11:24.480 --> 0:11:27.520 the simulation argument shows that at least one of the 0:11:27.559 --> 0:11:32.680 following propositions is true. One, the fraction of human level 0:11:32.720 --> 0:11:35.640 civilizations that reach a post human stage is very close 0:11:35.679 --> 0:11:39.840 to zero. To the fraction of post human civilizations that 0:11:39.880 --> 0:11:43.080 are interested in running ancestor simulations is very close to 0:11:43.200 --> 0:11:47.160 zero or three, the fraction of all people with our 0:11:47.240 --> 0:11:50.240 kind of experiences that are living in a simulation is 0:11:50.320 --> 0:11:53.360 very close to one. Now, what that essentially means is 0:11:53.400 --> 0:11:57.120 that if we are able to reach a post human phase, 0:11:57.240 --> 0:12:01.360 this trans human phase where we have at our fingertips 0:12:02.440 --> 0:12:06.959 practically limitless resources because of things are being so magical 0:12:07.000 --> 0:12:11.280 and rainbows are popping out of everything. That uh that 0:12:11.480 --> 0:12:16.560 if that's the case, then we should be able to 0:12:16.840 --> 0:12:21.319 create a computer simulation of the universe that is within 0:12:21.400 --> 0:12:25.920 the realm of the simulation itself, extremely realistic, and that 0:12:26.000 --> 0:12:31.120 we could also create within this, uh, this universal simulation, 0:12:31.960 --> 0:12:37.080 simulated intelligent beings, so that these these created beings would 0:12:37.120 --> 0:12:40.600 have sentience, they have consciousness, They would they might be 0:12:40.679 --> 0:12:43.080 very much like modern humans. Yes, they be self aware, 0:12:43.720 --> 0:12:48.360 but they would exist within the context of this created universe, 0:12:48.480 --> 0:12:50.880 and so they would only be able to see the 0:12:50.920 --> 0:12:54.240 things that are within that universe. Anything outside of the 0:12:54.280 --> 0:12:59.680 universe they would be incapable of perceiving. So within that universe, 0:13:00.200 --> 0:13:04.520 it would seem like they were quote unquote the real people, 0:13:05.200 --> 0:13:07.600 right they were. They were the people who were there 0:13:07.640 --> 0:13:11.520 because of whatever forces caused the universe to create be 0:13:11.559 --> 0:13:15.120 created in the first place. Um, And that for these 0:13:15.120 --> 0:13:18.000 people within the simulated universe, it might be completely impossible 0:13:18.040 --> 0:13:21.360 for them to detect anyone outside of it, anyone being 0:13:21.520 --> 0:13:24.040 us that we were the ones creating it. So his 0:13:24.120 --> 0:13:26.800 argument is that if we in fact reach the stage, 0:13:26.800 --> 0:13:30.800 and if we would use our technology to create simulations 0:13:30.840 --> 0:13:33.920 so that we could see how civilizations developing, that we 0:13:33.960 --> 0:13:36.920 would that interesting bits of the universe work, because we're 0:13:36.960 --> 0:13:40.720 intrinsically curious, right, So his argument is, if it's possible, 0:13:40.760 --> 0:13:43.160 we would do it, And if it's possible and we 0:13:43.200 --> 0:13:46.959 would do it, that means we, the current people living 0:13:47.000 --> 0:13:51.679 in this universe, are almost surely a computer simulation. So 0:13:52.120 --> 0:13:58.000 if it can happen, and if we are interested in ourselves, 0:13:58.520 --> 0:14:02.959 and we obviously are, then it's almost a guarantee that 0:14:02.960 --> 0:14:04.840 we're in a computer stimulation. And the reason for that 0:14:04.960 --> 0:14:07.760 argument is that in order for us to not be 0:14:07.840 --> 0:14:10.880 a computer simulation, we would have to be the first ones, right, 0:14:11.400 --> 0:14:14.320 we would have to be heading towards that timeline, and 0:14:15.320 --> 0:14:17.760 I just haven't gotten there yet, you know, Mr. Fusion, 0:14:18.440 --> 0:14:22.840 Whereas in every other case, some other post human civilization 0:14:22.880 --> 0:14:26.840 has already gotten there and made at least one level 0:14:27.160 --> 0:14:31.560 of simulated universe, which means that one out of infinity 0:14:31.680 --> 0:14:36.400 means we're the first, and then every other example is 0:14:36.480 --> 0:14:42.840 we're number two or lower. So yeah, that's that's that's 0:14:42.880 --> 0:14:44.440 kind of the crux of this argument, and it's really 0:14:44.480 --> 0:14:49.160 again a philosophical argument. It's not meant to say we're 0:14:49.200 --> 0:14:52.160 we're in a we're in a computer game, because because 0:14:52.160 --> 0:14:53.640 the way that it's set up, Yeah, that you know, 0:14:53.640 --> 0:14:59.440 if if you're saying that that ad infinitum percent of 0:14:59.480 --> 0:15:03.440 the time, we're probably a computer simulation, that it's you're 0:15:03.480 --> 0:15:07.720 you're placing the burden of proof on that point nine, 0:15:07.800 --> 0:15:10.640 etcetera percent of the population who might think you're wrong 0:15:11.120 --> 0:15:14.480 and that. So, but it's really fair, it's an interesting 0:15:14.760 --> 0:15:20.520 it's an interesting question. It's it's again unfalsifiable at right now. 0:15:20.640 --> 0:15:25.800 But but here's the funny thing. Boster makes us this statement. 0:15:25.960 --> 0:15:28.280 But it's purely from a philosophical point of view, right, 0:15:28.520 --> 0:15:30.840 It's not from a physics point of view, it's not 0:15:30.880 --> 0:15:33.560 from a science point of view. It's philosophy that has 0:15:33.560 --> 0:15:36.800 not stopped other people from looking at this from a 0:15:36.880 --> 0:15:40.480 scientific point of view. And that, to me is another 0:15:40.600 --> 0:15:44.840 interesting aspect of this argument is that usually you would 0:15:44.880 --> 0:15:46.520 look at an argument like this and say, okay, well, 0:15:46.520 --> 0:15:50.280 that's an interesting philosophical question. Ultimately, there's nothing I can 0:15:50.320 --> 0:15:52.160 do about that one way or the other, and then 0:15:52.200 --> 0:15:54.920 you go about your mary little way. Right, But a 0:15:54.960 --> 0:15:59.120 bunch of nice. I'm I'm assuming I'm quantum scientists have 0:15:59.240 --> 0:16:01.320 gotten together. Are you assuming they're nice? Are you assuming 0:16:01.320 --> 0:16:04.120 their quantum sign assuming well, I'm assuming both. I'm going 0:16:04.160 --> 0:16:05.600 to go ahead and give them the benefit of the doubt. 0:16:05.640 --> 0:16:10.880 There have been have been doing some research into quantum chromodynamics, 0:16:11.560 --> 0:16:16.080 which is which is a theory about one of the 0:16:16.240 --> 0:16:19.280 four fundamental forces in our universe. So the four fundamental 0:16:19.320 --> 0:16:25.880 forces are strong nuclear force, electromagnetism, weak nuclear force, and gravity. 0:16:26.200 --> 0:16:28.240 And that is in fact, in the order of how 0:16:28.280 --> 0:16:30.560 powerful they are, right, gravity is the weakest. It's the 0:16:30.600 --> 0:16:34.160 one that we're having the most trouble incorporating into our 0:16:34.320 --> 0:16:39.120 model of the universe. Uh. Strong nuclear force deals with 0:16:39.240 --> 0:16:43.040 the force of you know, you know those nucleus is things. 0:16:43.120 --> 0:16:46.520 The nuclei exists inside atoms. You know how they have 0:16:46.640 --> 0:16:49.640 like stuff that's stuck together, like protons and neutrons. And 0:16:49.680 --> 0:16:53.400 we're not sure why because because hypothetically to protons should 0:16:53.480 --> 0:16:56.000 should push each other each other. If you've ever played 0:16:56.000 --> 0:16:59.360 with magnetis, well, well, strong nuclear force is the force 0:16:59.560 --> 0:17:02.600 that that's the name for the reason why these things 0:17:03.120 --> 0:17:08.680 are stuck together so strong, whether why they're able to 0:17:08.680 --> 0:17:11.760 stick together clearly, it has to be an incredibly strong force, 0:17:11.800 --> 0:17:15.560 an incredibly strong force that only kicks in in incredibly 0:17:15.560 --> 0:17:19.199 short distances. We're talking on the atomic scale. So the 0:17:19.280 --> 0:17:23.560 strong nuclear force is what quantum chromo dynamics is all 0:17:23.600 --> 0:17:28.879 about studying. And one of the ways that quantum chromo 0:17:29.000 --> 0:17:32.639 dynamics or q c D should be way easier to 0:17:32.720 --> 0:17:38.240 say is to to look at this as a part 0:17:38.400 --> 0:17:44.320 of well, it looks at reality as four space time dimensions, 0:17:44.359 --> 0:17:48.240 so four dimensions. Uh. We mentioned string theory earlier. Some 0:17:48.359 --> 0:17:50.600 versions of string theory require that there are no fewer 0:17:50.640 --> 0:17:53.600 than eleven dimensions for string theory to work, which is 0:17:53.680 --> 0:17:57.280 basically beyond my comprehension entirely. I I get x, y 0:17:57.440 --> 0:17:59.679 z and time that I can I can get a 0:17:59.680 --> 0:18:03.840 three to mentional object moving through times. Beyond that, it 0:18:03.880 --> 0:18:08.920 gets a little wonky. Yeah, yeah, whibble wobbley, I'm right 0:18:08.920 --> 0:18:11.719 there with you, and uh and yeah, the same thing. 0:18:11.760 --> 0:18:14.000 And then again this this plays back to that discussion 0:18:14.000 --> 0:18:15.840 we at the very beginning where we talked about you know, 0:18:15.920 --> 0:18:19.439 we know the universe consists of stuff that's beyond our perception, 0:18:20.200 --> 0:18:22.040 but you know, we have to filter that through our 0:18:22.080 --> 0:18:26.520 brains and our brains are acting as a middleman between 0:18:26.600 --> 0:18:31.080 our consciousness and reality. So the things that we experience 0:18:31.560 --> 0:18:35.760 may very well be in their fundamental nature extremely different 0:18:35.800 --> 0:18:38.400 from the way we think of them because it's being 0:18:38.400 --> 0:18:40.879 filtered through because we have to model them in a 0:18:41.080 --> 0:18:47.240 this this concept we shouldn't have done. This philosophy makes 0:18:47.240 --> 0:18:50.639 me sad. I just realized that my brain is what's 0:18:50.680 --> 0:18:53.000 making you sit there and you think, like, think about it. 0:18:53.119 --> 0:18:55.119 If you have a bad day, you're thinking, wait a minute. 0:18:55.320 --> 0:18:56.720 Part of the reason I'm having a bad day is 0:18:56.720 --> 0:19:00.200 because my brain is filtering things in a it's my fault. 0:19:00.240 --> 0:19:03.520 And then I just it becomes this inspirable loop of 0:19:03.520 --> 0:19:05.440 of everything is terrible because of my brain, which is 0:19:05.480 --> 0:19:10.040 making things terrible. A little glimpse into Jonathan strictly folks, 0:19:10.040 --> 0:19:11.399 now I get just before I have to go to 0:19:11.440 --> 0:19:13.840 ce S. I know this episode publishes after I've come back, 0:19:13.880 --> 0:19:20.359 but trust me, it's it's a terrible life. Having to 0:19:20.760 --> 0:19:24.879 fly around the country and look at really shiny technological objects. 0:19:24.920 --> 0:19:27.920 You are not helping this this vicious cycle going on. 0:19:28.520 --> 0:19:31.040 Getting back to qc D. So part of part of 0:19:31.040 --> 0:19:34.600 this is looking at reality as for spacetime dimensions. Uh, 0:19:34.640 --> 0:19:38.720 and it's using computers that are really really powerful to 0:19:38.800 --> 0:19:43.200 do this and creating something that's uh, well, it's it's 0:19:43.200 --> 0:19:47.080 it's it's called a lattice gauge. Uh, it's last gage theory. 0:19:47.160 --> 0:19:52.760 Actually that is sort of the framework within which q 0:19:52.960 --> 0:19:57.000 c D tries to explain the strong nuclear force. And uh, 0:19:57.320 --> 0:20:00.639 this part of this means that we try and simulate 0:20:01.040 --> 0:20:06.159 and then incredibly tiny simulated universe, right right, and this 0:20:06.560 --> 0:20:10.520 is on the this is on actually the femto correct 0:20:10.640 --> 0:20:14.840 excellent um and and a femtometer is one quadrillionth of 0:20:14.880 --> 0:20:18.400 a meter nanometer for for references, one billionth of a meter. 0:20:18.520 --> 0:20:21.280 And that's also very small. Yes, yeah, when you talk 0:20:21.280 --> 0:20:25.800 about nanotechnology and that super small technology that is enormous 0:20:25.840 --> 0:20:30.199 compared to the femto scale, we're talking really really really tiny. Well, 0:20:30.280 --> 0:20:34.239 they build this sort of lattice structure to contain the 0:20:34.359 --> 0:20:39.560 simulated universe, and within this simulated universe, they are examining 0:20:40.080 --> 0:20:44.119 the elements that make up the strong nuclear force so 0:20:44.160 --> 0:20:46.959 that we can understand what it is and how it 0:20:47.000 --> 0:20:49.320 works better. Right right, that's the whole purpose. One of 0:20:49.400 --> 0:20:51.639 the big driving forces of the universe. We want to 0:20:51.680 --> 0:20:55.280 understand it. But this this physicists said, Hey, wait a minute. 0:20:55.359 --> 0:20:59.600 If this is how we are simulating and entirely fake 0:20:59.880 --> 0:21:04.520 n reverse a very tiny universe, doesn't it stand to 0:21:04.600 --> 0:21:07.040 reason that some other like if we are and if 0:21:07.080 --> 0:21:10.520 we became type of advanced, if if we went trans human, 0:21:10.800 --> 0:21:14.800 couldn't those trans humans in fact use the same technology 0:21:14.880 --> 0:21:18.840 to simulate an entire universe on a big scale, on 0:21:18.880 --> 0:21:23.600 a really large scale scale, or or at least for us. 0:21:23.640 --> 0:21:26.800 I mean, you could also argue that just to populate 0:21:26.840 --> 0:21:32.119 a fempto sized universe with with even smaller individual units 0:21:32.160 --> 0:21:35.320 within that fimpto sized universe, the idea being that, well 0:21:35.960 --> 0:21:38.960 you could you could create a stimulation that is a 0:21:39.040 --> 0:21:43.840 true universe with inhabitants and intelligent inhabitants, and that if 0:21:43.840 --> 0:21:46.679 in fact we are in a computer simulation, then perhaps 0:21:46.760 --> 0:21:50.000 there's some way that we could detect if this lattice 0:21:50.080 --> 0:21:55.119 structure is around our own universe. Um. Yeah, this is 0:21:55.119 --> 0:21:57.520 where it's getting to the point where it's hard for 0:21:57.560 --> 0:22:01.040 me to actually explain, because it's stretching. Both of our 0:22:01.520 --> 0:22:05.120 grasps on quantum mechanics are are perhaps not as strong 0:22:05.160 --> 0:22:07.680 as they could be, and and cosmology for the matter. 0:22:07.760 --> 0:22:10.560 For that matter, because we're talking about things like cosmic rays. 0:22:12.520 --> 0:22:17.320 The physicists suggested that perhaps we could observe cosmic rays 0:22:17.440 --> 0:22:20.960 and and really study them in depth and see how 0:22:20.960 --> 0:22:24.879 they behave within our universe and look for evidence of 0:22:25.040 --> 0:22:29.680 a lattice structure, which would indicate that some other larger 0:22:29.760 --> 0:22:32.720 universe had used the same techniques we used to create 0:22:32.800 --> 0:22:35.400 the femto universes we're making to look at the strong 0:22:35.440 --> 0:22:38.840 nuclear force to make our own universe, and then we'd say, hey, 0:22:38.880 --> 0:22:42.679 look there's evidence we are in a computer simulation crap. 0:22:44.000 --> 0:22:47.520 There are there are some issues with this. One is that, uh, 0:22:47.560 --> 0:22:51.359 it presumes that any post human civilization would use the 0:22:51.400 --> 0:22:59.240 exact so uh, there's another assumption that said post human 0:22:59.320 --> 0:23:02.960 society would allow us to be able to find our 0:23:03.000 --> 0:23:05.159 own right that you know, they wouldn't paint in a 0:23:05.240 --> 0:23:08.080 nice little backdrop that would prevent us from seeing the scenes, 0:23:08.400 --> 0:23:11.480 like to put in a patch or to reset us. 0:23:12.080 --> 0:23:16.520 Let's go back to bronze age, folks, control or delete um. 0:23:16.600 --> 0:23:19.760 There's also the argument that, well, what if our universe 0:23:20.080 --> 0:23:23.560 is so large that it is a bounded universe, because 0:23:23.680 --> 0:23:26.560 that's the other thing. A lattice structure would also indicate 0:23:26.600 --> 0:23:30.600 that our universe does have it's a finite universe. What 0:23:30.720 --> 0:23:33.520 if that finite universe is still too big for us 0:23:33.560 --> 0:23:36.560 to ever be able to see the edges, or what 0:23:36.640 --> 0:23:39.880 if the universe just is finite anyway. Yeah, it could 0:23:39.880 --> 0:23:41.960 be that the universe is finite anyway and has nothing 0:23:42.000 --> 0:23:44.199 to do with the last structure. And so there are 0:23:44.200 --> 0:23:46.240 a lot of a lot of objections that people have 0:23:46.280 --> 0:23:50.000 brought up. But mainly what this approach would allow us 0:23:50.040 --> 0:23:52.760 to do is if we saw the last structure, we 0:23:52.760 --> 0:23:55.840 could maybe draw some conclusions. But in any other case, 0:23:55.880 --> 0:23:57.800 like if we didn't see the last structure, it doesn't 0:23:57.800 --> 0:23:59.440 answer any questions. All right, it doesn't mean that it 0:23:59.480 --> 0:24:03.080 doesn't exist. Yeah, it doesn't mean that we're not in 0:24:03.119 --> 0:24:07.119 a computer simulation. So this so it's interesting, but again 0:24:07.160 --> 0:24:11.520 it's just sort of an extension of this thought experiment where, uh, 0:24:11.600 --> 0:24:14.120 you know, we're kind of getting round to the point 0:24:14.200 --> 0:24:16.960 that I'm most interested in in this whole discussion that 0:24:17.800 --> 0:24:20.040 all right, let's let's say that let's say that we 0:24:20.080 --> 0:24:23.159