1 00:00:02,440 --> 00:00:05,480 Speaker 1: Get in touch with technology with tech Stuff from how 2 00:00:05,519 --> 00:00:14,080 Speaker 1: stuff looks dot com. Hey there, everyone, and welcome to 3 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:18,480 Speaker 1: tech Stuff. I am Jonathan Strickland, the host of tech Stuff, 4 00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:21,720 Speaker 1: and I am Lauren Volkbaum, the other host of tech Stuff. Yes, 5 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:24,919 Speaker 1: if we had introduced ourselves in the opposite order, I 6 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:29,080 Speaker 1: would be the other host of tech Stuff. We're co hosts. Really, yeah, 7 00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:31,600 Speaker 1: it's uh. You know, this is a complicated issue, and 8 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:33,959 Speaker 1: in fact, I think it'd be a lot simpler if 9 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:37,080 Speaker 1: we just simulated it. What would it be a lot simpler? 10 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:39,559 Speaker 1: I think it would actually be more complicated. You know 11 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:41,560 Speaker 1: what We're gonna find out right here and now, because 12 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:44,239 Speaker 1: this episode is all about do we live in a 13 00:00:44,280 --> 00:00:48,440 Speaker 1: computer simulation? And in fact, the reason why we're even 14 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:53,080 Speaker 1: talking about this is a few years ago a philosopher, 15 00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:56,120 Speaker 1: and boy is that a surprise to no one. A 16 00:00:56,120 --> 00:01:00,480 Speaker 1: philosopher by the name of Nick Bostrom who works at 17 00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:05,880 Speaker 1: a little um yeah, tiny, like in academic circles. They 18 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:10,479 Speaker 1: have some swagger. It's the University of Oxford. Yeah, yeah, 19 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:15,160 Speaker 1: as far as the boffins go at Swagger City, right anyway, Yeah, 20 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:17,560 Speaker 1: he works with the University of Oxford and he's a 21 00:01:17,720 --> 00:01:22,199 Speaker 1: philosopher employed there, so his job is to sit around 22 00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:24,920 Speaker 1: and think about the nature of reality, and he presented 23 00:01:24,959 --> 00:01:28,240 Speaker 1: an interesting thought experiment. He said, do we live in 24 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:33,000 Speaker 1: a computer simulation? Is everything that we experience and everything 25 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:37,600 Speaker 1: that's around us actually just the product of some sort 26 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:41,520 Speaker 1: of computer program in a universe larger than our own? 27 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:44,280 Speaker 1: And we'll talk about you know what led him into 28 00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:48,480 Speaker 1: this kind of line of thinking and his arguments presenting 29 00:01:48,960 --> 00:01:51,600 Speaker 1: the likelihood that we are actually in a computer simulation. 30 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:54,920 Speaker 1: But before we begin in that, I thought it'd be 31 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:58,840 Speaker 1: interesting to look back quite a way. Is actually because 32 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:04,000 Speaker 1: this idea that reality as we understand it is not 33 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:08,000 Speaker 1: not exactly new at all. We've been pondering for basically 34 00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:10,760 Speaker 1: as long as we could ponder things, whether or not 35 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:14,640 Speaker 1: our our experience of reality is reality. Yeah, and and 36 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:16,840 Speaker 1: part of that is understandable. I mean, we know for 37 00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:20,360 Speaker 1: a fact that reality consists of stuff that is beyond 38 00:02:20,520 --> 00:02:24,160 Speaker 1: our perception, right, Oh, sure, absolutely, Like I don't know 39 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:26,960 Speaker 1: when the last time you looked into the infrared spectrum was, 40 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:28,919 Speaker 1: but the last time for me was never because it's 41 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:33,120 Speaker 1: outside my visual acuity. I can't see in the infrared spectrum, 42 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:35,640 Speaker 1: all right, And there's lots of lots of things above 43 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:38,160 Speaker 1: our scale of hearing, above and below our scale of hearing. Um, 44 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:40,040 Speaker 1: if you talk to sharks, they can they can hear 45 00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:43,920 Speaker 1: different stuff, but my dogs totally different stuff that I 46 00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:47,359 Speaker 1: can hear. Yeah, And and even even before we had 47 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:49,959 Speaker 1: as much scientific data about that as we do now. 48 00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:51,679 Speaker 1: You know, if we had done the research, we could 49 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:53,760 Speaker 1: tell you the exact spectrums that we can see within 50 00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:57,399 Speaker 1: but outside of visual which is a pretty good word 51 00:02:57,440 --> 00:02:59,800 Speaker 1: for it. But um, but but yeah, you know, it's 52 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:02,760 Speaker 1: even long, long, long times before that people are pondering 53 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:06,639 Speaker 1: these questions and all kinds of literature. Uh goes into 54 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:10,040 Speaker 1: literature and philosophy right right all the back in one 55 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:13,359 Speaker 1: one of the famous, famous examples of this kind of 56 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:19,000 Speaker 1: philosophy was proposed by a fellow named Renee Descartes, about 57 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:22,880 Speaker 1: whom Monty Python had some rude things to sing if 58 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:25,880 Speaker 1: you know that your philosopher's song. But Descartes, um, I 59 00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:30,560 Speaker 1: think therefore I am uh fellow. He wrote something called 60 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:35,000 Speaker 1: the Meditations on First Philosophy, and he presented an very 61 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:39,640 Speaker 1: similar thought exercise to the one that Nick Moostrom mentioned. Now, 62 00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:43,320 Speaker 1: his was called the Evil Demon or sometimes people refer 63 00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:47,680 Speaker 1: to it as the evil genius problem. And he said, well, 64 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:51,760 Speaker 1: what if everything that I renee, I think therefore I 65 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:57,160 Speaker 1: am Descartes experience is actually just an illusion that's generated 66 00:03:57,200 --> 00:03:59,640 Speaker 1: by an evil force. In his case, he was home 67 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:04,240 Speaker 1: on all demon. So there's this malevolent creature that is 68 00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:08,880 Speaker 1: capable of creating everything that Decard is experiencing. So while 69 00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:12,640 Speaker 1: he thinks he's walking around and being really smart and 70 00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:17,960 Speaker 1: chatting with other smart people and having a croissan um, 71 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:22,599 Speaker 1: in reality, he's not. He's just he's just a consciousness 72 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:25,800 Speaker 1: that's being manipulated by this evil demon and everything that's 73 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:29,320 Speaker 1: happening to him is an illusion that's created by him. 74 00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:33,360 Speaker 1: And this is unfalsifiable, right. It means that that means 75 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:36,040 Speaker 1: that there's no way that you can prove that it's wrong. 76 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:38,440 Speaker 1: It's like if I say, there's a six ft invisible 77 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:42,039 Speaker 1: bunny walking around behind me all the time, makes no 78 00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:44,839 Speaker 1: noise and has no scent, right, and you can't touch it. 79 00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:48,159 Speaker 1: That you cannot touch. Yeah, that well, that there's no 80 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:50,880 Speaker 1: way for me to prove that you're wrong. I will 81 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:52,520 Speaker 1: sit here and I will think that you are crazy 82 00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:56,680 Speaker 1: or Donnie Darko, but that uh, you know, or Deborah 83 00:04:56,760 --> 00:04:59,839 Speaker 1: Donka don't darko, I don't know, I mean, or the 84 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:04,560 Speaker 1: character in in Harvey there yes, another yes, but but 85 00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:06,960 Speaker 1: you know, there's no way for me to prove that 86 00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:11,880 Speaker 1: there's not a six ft invisible, untouchable, unsensible, unhearable bunny 87 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:16,440 Speaker 1: behind you. So that's that's called that. It's called unfalsifiable. 88 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:22,120 Speaker 1: That means it is not scientific. Scientific principles premises these 89 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:26,400 Speaker 1: sort of things. They are falsifiable, meaning that there should 90 00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:29,640 Speaker 1: be a set of criteria under which you would say 91 00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:32,719 Speaker 1: this is not true. Right now. It does not mean 92 00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:35,200 Speaker 1: that what you're saying isn't true. It just means it 93 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:37,640 Speaker 1: has to be possible, that has to be within the 94 00:05:37,640 --> 00:05:39,520 Speaker 1: realm of possible. In order for something to be proved, 95 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:41,880 Speaker 1: it has to be able to be disproved exactly. And 96 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:45,679 Speaker 1: so if it's unfalsifiable, it's not scientific. Now I should 97 00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:50,360 Speaker 1: also stress if it's unfalsifiable and unscientific, that also does 98 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:53,720 Speaker 1: not mean it's not true. It could be true. It 99 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:56,680 Speaker 1: can absolutely be String theory is a great example of this. 100 00:05:57,120 --> 00:05:59,559 Speaker 1: We call it a theory, but but some people argue 101 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:02,000 Speaker 1: it's a fullilosophy. Well, it's a it's yeah, it's not 102 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:04,760 Speaker 1: a mathematical theory. And I get into arguments sometimes of 103 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:07,960 Speaker 1: people on Facebook about this because the theory is the 104 00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:10,599 Speaker 1: word that has many many meanings. The mathematical meaning of 105 00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:14,240 Speaker 1: it is is something that has been proven is true, 106 00:06:15,200 --> 00:06:18,440 Speaker 1: whereas he has has been exercised the whole scientific theory 107 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:21,080 Speaker 1: versus I have a theory which is really more like 108 00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:23,320 Speaker 1: I have an idea of why this is the way 109 00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:25,440 Speaker 1: it is. Scientific theory and that kind of theory are 110 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:29,240 Speaker 1: two different things. But anyway, uh yeah, string theory would 111 00:06:29,279 --> 00:06:31,840 Speaker 1: say that the entire universe is made up of these tiny, 112 00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:35,200 Speaker 1: little vibrating strings. And we're talking like tiny, as in 113 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:39,039 Speaker 1: tinier than sub atomic particles, tiny, quite small, and that 114 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:42,719 Speaker 1: the way they vibrate that's what makes stuff what it is. Well, 115 00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:46,120 Speaker 1: mathematically this makes sense, but there is no way we 116 00:06:46,279 --> 00:06:49,800 Speaker 1: can uh we can observe this or test this, so 117 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:56,800 Speaker 1: therefore it's unfalsifiable and unscientific using that particular definition. Uh So, 118 00:06:56,920 --> 00:06:59,680 Speaker 1: same sort of thing here with Renee Dicart and his theory. 119 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:01,840 Speaker 1: And this is not again, not the first time this 120 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:04,279 Speaker 1: idea has popped up. It's one of the really famous ones. 121 00:07:04,279 --> 00:07:09,920 Speaker 1: And that's back in so if we look at the 122 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:14,280 Speaker 1: modern version, you've got Nick Bostrom talking about a computer simulation, 123 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:19,520 Speaker 1: and his whole argument hinges on this idea of trans 124 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:24,480 Speaker 1: humanism or the singularity. So we kind of have to 125 00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:27,480 Speaker 1: talk about what the singularity is so that we can 126 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:30,640 Speaker 1: finally get around to this whole computer simulation problem, right, 127 00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:34,640 Speaker 1: and and and also talk about trans human because that 128 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:40,360 Speaker 1: that's basically a fancy term for stuff. Yeah, it's it's 129 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:43,200 Speaker 1: it's a it's a fancy term for saying what happens 130 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:47,920 Speaker 1: when we reach a point in uh, in advances in 131 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:52,840 Speaker 1: science and medicine, in biology, where we can transform ourselves 132 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:57,240 Speaker 1: to a point where we are no longer strictly speaking human, Right, Like, 133 00:07:57,280 --> 00:08:01,320 Speaker 1: we have altered ourselves on some fundamental level, and we 134 00:08:01,400 --> 00:08:05,000 Speaker 1: aren't we we wouldn't be human as we recognize it today. Right, 135 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:08,000 Speaker 1: that our our technology has bonded to us in a way, 136 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:10,720 Speaker 1: or that our science has bonded to us. Right, we 137 00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:13,560 Speaker 1: we've understood genetics enough so that we're all mutants like 138 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:16,760 Speaker 1: in the X Men, or we have all become cyborgs, 139 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:21,360 Speaker 1: or we have all transmitted our consciousness into computers and 140 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:24,680 Speaker 1: there are no physical versions of us anymore. And these 141 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:28,680 Speaker 1: are all different ways that we could, in theory become 142 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:32,520 Speaker 1: trans human. So it's a very generic term that spreads 143 00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:37,760 Speaker 1: across multiple possibilities. There's no one trans human because really, 144 00:08:37,800 --> 00:08:39,280 Speaker 1: I mean, the thing is that we don't know because 145 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:40,920 Speaker 1: we're not there yet. It hasn't happened yet as it 146 00:08:40,920 --> 00:08:42,200 Speaker 1: turns out. I mean, there's a few of us who 147 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:45,760 Speaker 1: are a little wacky, but but it doesn't mean some 148 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:48,080 Speaker 1: of us are clearly better than others. I mean, okay, yeah, 149 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:52,600 Speaker 1: I mean we're not we're not naming names, but we're 150 00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:56,720 Speaker 1: pretty awesome. But no, So that's the idea of trans humanism. 151 00:08:56,800 --> 00:08:59,880 Speaker 1: Singularity is sort of one of the pathways where we 152 00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:02,920 Speaker 1: could reach this sort of trans human future. And the 153 00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:07,720 Speaker 1: singularity is this idea that several futurists have proposed about 154 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:13,320 Speaker 1: the fact that technology advances are continuing at a faster 155 00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:18,120 Speaker 1: and faster pace each each year, really exponentially exponentially. You've 156 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:21,680 Speaker 1: got things like Moore's law, where, depending on how you're 157 00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:24,600 Speaker 1: defining it, essentially the computer power is doubling every two 158 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:28,360 Speaker 1: years um, but other technological advances are are having at 159 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:31,880 Speaker 1: an even faster rate that we will eventually come to 160 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:35,480 Speaker 1: a point where we are advancing continuously with no break 161 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:39,720 Speaker 1: between the generation. Right if you think of like operating 162 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:41,840 Speaker 1: systems and how they come out, like you know Windows 163 00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:45,920 Speaker 1: seven and then Windows But then you think, all right, well, 164 00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:48,200 Speaker 1: then down the road it might be the every six months, 165 00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:49,640 Speaker 1: and then it might be every three months, and then 166 00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:52,240 Speaker 1: it might just be that every single day there's something 167 00:09:52,280 --> 00:09:54,520 Speaker 1: new that's being incorporated, or every second or every n 168 00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:58,400 Speaker 1: a second. So at that point, things are changing so 169 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:00,760 Speaker 1: fast that you cannot even define in the era you 170 00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:04,360 Speaker 1: are in because there's nothing like within within one moment, 171 00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:08,560 Speaker 1: uh you have changed so much that it's it's pointless 172 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:12,559 Speaker 1: to try and defind a series of moments. Right at 173 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:15,280 Speaker 1: this point in our future, we would hit what is 174 00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:19,240 Speaker 1: called the singularity. And part of one of the defining 175 00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:21,800 Speaker 1: features of the singularity is it's impossible for us to 176 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:24,880 Speaker 1: say what will happen once we hit that point, because 177 00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:27,400 Speaker 1: by its very nature, it's going to evolve so fast 178 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:30,960 Speaker 1: that we cannot conceive of what I mean. It's it's 179 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:33,839 Speaker 1: kind of pointless to talk about it too much. Doesn't 180 00:10:33,880 --> 00:10:37,439 Speaker 1: stop me, but it's pointless. It doesn't stop philosophers. Either 181 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:40,040 Speaker 1: doesn't stop me. And there are many pointless discussions that 182 00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 1: you cannot stop me from having. This is one of them, anyway, 183 00:10:44,440 --> 00:10:49,679 Speaker 1: So the singularity could happen in various ways again, biology, science, technology, 184 00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:53,800 Speaker 1: These are all the different avenues that that could lead 185 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:58,360 Speaker 1: to the singularity or could be you know, yeah and uh. 186 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:03,040 Speaker 1: And that forms the very crux of Bostrom's argument. Let's 187 00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:05,079 Speaker 1: take a quick break for a word from our sponsor, 188 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:09,440 Speaker 1: and now back to the show. So Nick Bostrom's argument 189 00:11:10,040 --> 00:11:13,560 Speaker 1: uh is worded this way here. Here's from a paper 190 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:18,360 Speaker 1: he wrote on the subject, A technologically mature post human 191 00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:24,160 Speaker 1: civilization would have enormous computing power. Based on this empirical fact, 192 00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:27,520 Speaker 1: the simulation argument shows that at least one of the 193 00:11:27,559 --> 00:11:32,680 Speaker 1: following propositions is true. One, the fraction of human level 194 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:35,640 Speaker 1: civilizations that reach a post human stage is very close 195 00:11:35,679 --> 00:11:39,840 Speaker 1: to zero. To the fraction of post human civilizations that 196 00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:43,080 Speaker 1: are interested in running ancestor simulations is very close to 197 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:47,160 Speaker 1: zero or three, the fraction of all people with our 198 00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:50,240 Speaker 1: kind of experiences that are living in a simulation is 199 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:53,360 Speaker 1: very close to one. Now, what that essentially means is 200 00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:57,120 Speaker 1: that if we are able to reach a post human phase, 201 00:11:57,240 --> 00:12:01,360 Speaker 1: this trans human phase where we have at our fingertips 202 00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:06,959 Speaker 1: practically limitless resources because of things are being so magical 203 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:11,280 Speaker 1: and rainbows are popping out of everything. That uh that 204 00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:16,560 Speaker 1: if that's the case, then we should be able to 205 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:21,319 Speaker 1: create a computer simulation of the universe that is within 206 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:25,920 Speaker 1: the realm of the simulation itself, extremely realistic, and that 207 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:31,120 Speaker 1: we could also create within this, uh, this universal simulation, 208 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:37,080 Speaker 1: simulated intelligent beings, so that these these created beings would 209 00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:40,600 Speaker 1: have sentience, they have consciousness, They would they might be 210 00:12:40,679 --> 00:12:43,080 Speaker 1: very much like modern humans. Yes, they be self aware, 211 00:12:43,720 --> 00:12:48,360 Speaker 1: but they would exist within the context of this created universe, 212 00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:50,880 Speaker 1: and so they would only be able to see the 213 00:12:50,920 --> 00:12:54,240 Speaker 1: things that are within that universe. Anything outside of the 214 00:12:54,280 --> 00:12:59,680 Speaker 1: universe they would be incapable of perceiving. So within that universe, 215 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:04,520 Speaker 1: it would seem like they were quote unquote the real people, 216 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:07,600 Speaker 1: right they were. They were the people who were there 217 00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:11,520 Speaker 1: because of whatever forces caused the universe to create be 218 00:13:11,559 --> 00:13:15,120 Speaker 1: created in the first place. Um, And that for these 219 00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:18,000 Speaker 1: people within the simulated universe, it might be completely impossible 220 00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:21,360 Speaker 1: for them to detect anyone outside of it, anyone being 221 00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:24,040 Speaker 1: us that we were the ones creating it. So his 222 00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:26,800 Speaker 1: argument is that if we in fact reach the stage, 223 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:30,800 Speaker 1: and if we would use our technology to create simulations 224 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:33,920 Speaker 1: so that we could see how civilizations developing, that we 225 00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:36,920 Speaker 1: would that interesting bits of the universe work, because we're 226 00:13:36,960 --> 00:13:40,720 Speaker 1: intrinsically curious, right, So his argument is, if it's possible, 227 00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:43,160 Speaker 1: we would do it, And if it's possible and we 228 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:46,959 Speaker 1: would do it, that means we, the current people living 229 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:51,679 Speaker 1: in this universe, are almost surely a computer simulation. So 230 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:58,000 Speaker 1: if it can happen, and if we are interested in ourselves, 231 00:13:58,520 --> 00:14:02,959 Speaker 1: and we obviously are, then it's almost a guarantee that 232 00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:04,840 Speaker 1: we're in a computer stimulation. And the reason for that 233 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:07,760 Speaker 1: argument is that in order for us to not be 234 00:14:07,840 --> 00:14:10,880 Speaker 1: a computer simulation, we would have to be the first ones, right, 235 00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:14,320 Speaker 1: we would have to be heading towards that timeline, and 236 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:17,760 Speaker 1: I just haven't gotten there yet, you know, Mr. Fusion, 237 00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:22,840 Speaker 1: Whereas in every other case, some other post human civilization 238 00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:26,840 Speaker 1: has already gotten there and made at least one level 239 00:14:27,160 --> 00:14:31,560 Speaker 1: of simulated universe, which means that one out of infinity 240 00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:36,400 Speaker 1: means we're the first, and then every other example is 241 00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:42,840 Speaker 1: we're number two or lower. So yeah, that's that's that's 242 00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:44,440 Speaker 1: kind of the crux of this argument, and it's really 243 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:49,160 Speaker 1: again a philosophical argument. It's not meant to say we're 244 00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:52,160 Speaker 1: we're in a we're in a computer game, because because 245 00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:53,640 Speaker 1: the way that it's set up, Yeah, that you know, 246 00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:59,440 Speaker 1: if if you're saying that that ad infinitum percent of 247 00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:03,440 Speaker 1: the time, we're probably a computer simulation, that it's you're 248 00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:07,720 Speaker 1: you're placing the burden of proof on that point nine, 249 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:10,640 Speaker 1: etcetera percent of the population who might think you're wrong 250 00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:14,480 Speaker 1: and that. So, but it's really fair, it's an interesting 251 00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:20,520 Speaker 1: it's an interesting question. It's it's again unfalsifiable at right now. 252 00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:25,800 Speaker 1: But but here's the funny thing. Boster makes us this statement. 253 00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:28,280 Speaker 1: But it's purely from a philosophical point of view, right, 254 00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:30,840 Speaker 1: It's not from a physics point of view, it's not 255 00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:33,560 Speaker 1: from a science point of view. It's philosophy that has 256 00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:36,800 Speaker 1: not stopped other people from looking at this from a 257 00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:40,480 Speaker 1: scientific point of view. And that, to me is another 258 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:44,840 Speaker 1: interesting aspect of this argument is that usually you would 259 00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:46,520 Speaker 1: look at an argument like this and say, okay, well, 260 00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 1: that's an interesting philosophical question. Ultimately, there's nothing I can 261 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:52,160 Speaker 1: do about that one way or the other, and then 262 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:54,920 Speaker 1: you go about your mary little way. Right, But a 263 00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:59,120 Speaker 1: bunch of nice. I'm I'm assuming I'm quantum scientists have 264 00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:01,320 Speaker 1: gotten together. Are you assuming they're nice? Are you assuming 265 00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:04,120 Speaker 1: their quantum sign assuming well, I'm assuming both. I'm going 266 00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:05,600 Speaker 1: to go ahead and give them the benefit of the doubt. 267 00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:10,880 Speaker 1: There have been have been doing some research into quantum chromodynamics, 268 00:16:11,560 --> 00:16:16,080 Speaker 1: which is which is a theory about one of the 269 00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:19,280 Speaker 1: four fundamental forces in our universe. So the four fundamental 270 00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:25,880 Speaker 1: forces are strong nuclear force, electromagnetism, weak nuclear force, and gravity. 271 00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:28,240 Speaker 1: And that is in fact, in the order of how 272 00:16:28,280 --> 00:16:30,560 Speaker 1: powerful they are, right, gravity is the weakest. It's the 273 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:34,160 Speaker 1: one that we're having the most trouble incorporating into our 274 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:39,120 Speaker 1: model of the universe. Uh. Strong nuclear force deals with 275 00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:43,040 Speaker 1: the force of you know, you know those nucleus is things. 276 00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:46,520 Speaker 1: The nuclei exists inside atoms. You know how they have 277 00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:49,640 Speaker 1: like stuff that's stuck together, like protons and neutrons. And 278 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:53,400 Speaker 1: we're not sure why because because hypothetically to protons should 279 00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:56,000 Speaker 1: should push each other each other. If you've ever played 280 00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:59,360 Speaker 1: with magnetis, well, well, strong nuclear force is the force 281 00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:02,600 Speaker 1: that that's the name for the reason why these things 282 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:08,680 Speaker 1: are stuck together so strong, whether why they're able to 283 00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:11,760 Speaker 1: stick together clearly, it has to be an incredibly strong force, 284 00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:15,560 Speaker 1: an incredibly strong force that only kicks in in incredibly 285 00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:19,199 Speaker 1: short distances. We're talking on the atomic scale. So the 286 00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:23,560 Speaker 1: strong nuclear force is what quantum chromo dynamics is all 287 00:17:23,600 --> 00:17:28,879 Speaker 1: about studying. And one of the ways that quantum chromo 288 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:32,639 Speaker 1: dynamics or q c D should be way easier to 289 00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:38,240 Speaker 1: say is to to look at this as a part 290 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:44,320 Speaker 1: of well, it looks at reality as four space time dimensions, 291 00:17:44,359 --> 00:17:48,240 Speaker 1: so four dimensions. Uh. We mentioned string theory earlier. Some 292 00:17:48,359 --> 00:17:50,600 Speaker 1: versions of string theory require that there are no fewer 293 00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:53,600 Speaker 1: than eleven dimensions for string theory to work, which is 294 00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:57,280 Speaker 1: basically beyond my comprehension entirely. I I get x, y 295 00:17:57,440 --> 00:17:59,679 Speaker 1: z and time that I can I can get a 296 00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:03,840 Speaker 1: three to mentional object moving through times. Beyond that, it 297 00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:08,920 Speaker 1: gets a little wonky. Yeah, yeah, whibble wobbley, I'm right 298 00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:11,719 Speaker 1: there with you, and uh and yeah, the same thing. 299 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:14,000 Speaker 1: And then again this this plays back to that discussion 300 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:15,840 Speaker 1: we at the very beginning where we talked about you know, 301 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:19,439 Speaker 1: we know the universe consists of stuff that's beyond our perception, 302 00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:22,040 Speaker 1: but you know, we have to filter that through our 303 00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:26,520 Speaker 1: brains and our brains are acting as a middleman between 304 00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:31,080 Speaker 1: our consciousness and reality. So the things that we experience 305 00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:35,760 Speaker 1: may very well be in their fundamental nature extremely different 306 00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:38,400 Speaker 1: from the way we think of them because it's being 307 00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:40,879 Speaker 1: filtered through because we have to model them in a 308 00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:47,240 Speaker 1: this this concept we shouldn't have done. This philosophy makes 309 00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:50,639 Speaker 1: me sad. I just realized that my brain is what's 310 00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:53,000 Speaker 1: making you sit there and you think, like, think about it. 311 00:18:53,119 --> 00:18:55,119 Speaker 1: If you have a bad day, you're thinking, wait a minute. 312 00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:56,720 Speaker 1: Part of the reason I'm having a bad day is 313 00:18:56,720 --> 00:19:00,200 Speaker 1: because my brain is filtering things in a it's my fault. 314 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:03,520 Speaker 1: And then I just it becomes this inspirable loop of 315 00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:05,440 Speaker 1: of everything is terrible because of my brain, which is 316 00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:10,040 Speaker 1: making things terrible. A little glimpse into Jonathan strictly folks, 317 00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:11,399 Speaker 1: now I get just before I have to go to 318 00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:13,840 Speaker 1: ce S. I know this episode publishes after I've come back, 319 00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:20,359 Speaker 1: but trust me, it's it's a terrible life. Having to 320 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:24,879 Speaker 1: fly around the country and look at really shiny technological objects. 321 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:27,920 Speaker 1: You are not helping this this vicious cycle going on. 322 00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:31,040 Speaker 1: Getting back to qc D. So part of part of 323 00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:34,600 Speaker 1: this is looking at reality as for spacetime dimensions. Uh, 324 00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:38,720 Speaker 1: and it's using computers that are really really powerful to 325 00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:43,200 Speaker 1: do this and creating something that's uh, well, it's it's 326 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:47,080 Speaker 1: it's it's called a lattice gauge. Uh, it's last gage theory. 327 00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:52,760 Speaker 1: Actually that is sort of the framework within which q 328 00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:57,000 Speaker 1: c D tries to explain the strong nuclear force. And uh, 329 00:19:57,320 --> 00:20:00,639 Speaker 1: this part of this means that we try and simulate 330 00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:06,159 Speaker 1: and then incredibly tiny simulated universe, right right, and this 331 00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:10,520 Speaker 1: is on the this is on actually the femto correct 332 00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:14,840 Speaker 1: excellent um and and a femtometer is one quadrillionth of 333 00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:18,400 Speaker 1: a meter nanometer for for references, one billionth of a meter. 334 00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:21,280 Speaker 1: And that's also very small. Yes, yeah, when you talk 335 00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:25,800 Speaker 1: about nanotechnology and that super small technology that is enormous 336 00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:30,199 Speaker 1: compared to the femto scale, we're talking really really really tiny. Well, 337 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:34,239 Speaker 1: they build this sort of lattice structure to contain the 338 00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:39,560 Speaker 1: simulated universe, and within this simulated universe, they are examining 339 00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:44,119 Speaker 1: the elements that make up the strong nuclear force so 340 00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:46,959 Speaker 1: that we can understand what it is and how it 341 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:49,320 Speaker 1: works better. Right right, that's the whole purpose. One of 342 00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:51,639 Speaker 1: the big driving forces of the universe. We want to 343 00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:55,280 Speaker 1: understand it. But this this physicists said, Hey, wait a minute. 344 00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:59,600 Speaker 1: If this is how we are simulating and entirely fake 345 00:20:59,880 --> 00:21:04,520 Speaker 1: n reverse a very tiny universe, doesn't it stand to 346 00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:07,040 Speaker 1: reason that some other like if we are and if 347 00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:10,520 Speaker 1: we became type of advanced, if if we went trans human, 348 00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:14,800 Speaker 1: couldn't those trans humans in fact use the same technology 349 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:18,840 Speaker 1: to simulate an entire universe on a big scale, on 350 00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:23,600 Speaker 1: a really large scale scale, or or at least for us. 351 00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:26,800 Speaker 1: I mean, you could also argue that just to populate 352 00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:32,119 Speaker 1: a fempto sized universe with with even smaller individual units 353 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:35,320 Speaker 1: within that fimpto sized universe, the idea being that, well 354 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:38,960 Speaker 1: you could you could create a stimulation that is a 355 00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:43,840 Speaker 1: true universe with inhabitants and intelligent inhabitants, and that if 356 00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:46,679 Speaker 1: in fact we are in a computer simulation, then perhaps 357 00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:50,000 Speaker 1: there's some way that we could detect if this lattice 358 00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:55,119 Speaker 1: structure is around our own universe. Um. Yeah, this is 359 00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:57,520 Speaker 1: where it's getting to the point where it's hard for 360 00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:01,040 Speaker 1: me to actually explain, because it's stretching. Both of our 361 00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:05,120 Speaker 1: grasps on quantum mechanics are are perhaps not as strong 362 00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:07,680 Speaker 1: as they could be, and and cosmology for the matter. 363 00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:10,560 Speaker 1: For that matter, because we're talking about things like cosmic rays. 364 00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:17,320 Speaker 1: The physicists suggested that perhaps we could observe cosmic rays 365 00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:20,960 Speaker 1: and and really study them in depth and see how 366 00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:24,879 Speaker 1: they behave within our universe and look for evidence of 367 00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:29,680 Speaker 1: a lattice structure, which would indicate that some other larger 368 00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:32,720 Speaker 1: universe had used the same techniques we used to create 369 00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:35,400 Speaker 1: the femto universes we're making to look at the strong 370 00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:38,840 Speaker 1: nuclear force to make our own universe, and then we'd say, hey, 371 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:42,679 Speaker 1: look there's evidence we are in a computer simulation crap. 372 00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:47,520 Speaker 1: There are there are some issues with this. One is that, uh, 373 00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:51,359 Speaker 1: it presumes that any post human civilization would use the 374 00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:59,240 Speaker 1: exact so uh, there's another assumption that said post human 375 00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:02,960 Speaker 1: society would allow us to be able to find our 376 00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:05,159 Speaker 1: own right that you know, they wouldn't paint in a 377 00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:08,080 Speaker 1: nice little backdrop that would prevent us from seeing the scenes, 378 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:11,480 Speaker 1: like to put in a patch or to reset us. 379 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:16,520 Speaker 1: Let's go back to bronze age, folks, control or delete um. 380 00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:19,760 Speaker 1: There's also the argument that, well, what if our universe 381 00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:23,560 Speaker 1: is so large that it is a bounded universe, because 382 00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:26,560 Speaker 1: that's the other thing. A lattice structure would also indicate 383 00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:30,600 Speaker 1: that our universe does have it's a finite universe. What 384 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:33,520 Speaker 1: if that finite universe is still too big for us 385 00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:36,560 Speaker 1: to ever be able to see the edges, or what 386 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:39,880 Speaker 1: if the universe just is finite anyway. Yeah, it could 387 00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:41,960 Speaker 1: be that the universe is finite anyway and has nothing 388 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:44,199 Speaker 1: to do with the last structure. And so there are 389 00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:46,240 Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of objections that people have 390 00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:50,000 Speaker 1: brought up. But mainly what this approach would allow us 391 00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:52,760 Speaker 1: to do is if we saw the last structure, we 392 00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:55,840 Speaker 1: could maybe draw some conclusions. But in any other case, 393 00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:57,800 Speaker 1: like if we didn't see the last structure, it doesn't 394 00:23:57,800 --> 00:23:59,440 Speaker 1: answer any questions. All right, it doesn't mean that it 395 00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:03,080 Speaker 1: doesn't exist. Yeah, it doesn't mean that we're not in 396 00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:07,119 Speaker 1: a computer simulation. So this so it's interesting, but again 397 00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:11,520 Speaker 1: it's just sort of an extension of this thought experiment where, uh, 398 00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:14,120 Speaker 1: you know, we're kind of getting round to the point 399 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:16,960 Speaker 1: that I'm most interested in in this whole discussion that 400 00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:20,040 Speaker 1: all right, let's let's say that let's say that we 401 00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:23,159 Speaker 1: are in a computer simulation. Whether we know it or not, 402 00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:26,000 Speaker 1: it doesn't matter. We don't necessarily need to know that 403 00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:28,200 Speaker 1: we are. But let's just let's just assume, assuming that 404 00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:32,199 Speaker 1: we are that we are. Does that matter on a 405 00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:35,600 Speaker 1: day to day scale? Would it matter if we were 406 00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:39,240 Speaker 1: in a computer simulation in some ways? If we don't know, 407 00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:42,200 Speaker 1: it doesn't matter at all. I mean, you know, if 408 00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:44,520 Speaker 1: we if yeah, you know, if if we had absolute 409 00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:46,600 Speaker 1: proof of it, then that would be that would be huge, 410 00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:50,080 Speaker 1: That would be shattering. That would probably cause wars. Yeah, 411 00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:53,760 Speaker 1: for for all kinds of philosophies and religions and and 412 00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:56,920 Speaker 1: just interpersonal I mean, I mean within my own head, 413 00:24:56,960 --> 00:24:59,399 Speaker 1: I would probably need to spend a few days just 414 00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:03,200 Speaker 1: just to drew thing because talking about my normal weak 415 00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:07,240 Speaker 1: this is what I do. Alright, Fine, Okay, so now 416 00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:10,800 Speaker 1: I know something different between me and Lauren learn a 417 00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:15,240 Speaker 1: new stuff. Um No, I I agree that that. And 418 00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:18,119 Speaker 1: if we don't know, there was no difference because the 419 00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:22,159 Speaker 1: rules that we have created for ourselves but based on 420 00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:25,919 Speaker 1: our cultures and our society, those haven't changed. Like like 421 00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:29,360 Speaker 1: if I found out somehow, like if if knowledge we're 422 00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:33,880 Speaker 1: given to me personally out of everyone who's alive, that yes, 423 00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:36,480 Speaker 1: in fact, you live in a computer simulation. After I 424 00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:40,639 Speaker 1: had that moment where I I upped my drooling capacity 425 00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:43,719 Speaker 1: for my daily allowance of drooling. I would sit there 426 00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:46,520 Speaker 1: and think, well, ultimately, this doesn't change anything. I mean, 427 00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:50,040 Speaker 1: it's my life still has meaning within the context of 428 00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:52,240 Speaker 1: the world I live in. We still need to go 429 00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:55,639 Speaker 1: get lunch, we still, we still get married, we still 430 00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:58,960 Speaker 1: I still, I still laugh, I still cry. I still 431 00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:01,680 Speaker 1: find that Joe and Webb look to be absolutely hilarious, 432 00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:03,400 Speaker 1: and I would really like it if Netflix streaming would 433 00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:05,560 Speaker 1: bring it back for me. I mean, you know, all 434 00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:08,240 Speaker 1: of these sort of things would still be true, So 435 00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:14,320 Speaker 1: I don't think that ultimately it changes anything unless it 436 00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:18,320 Speaker 1: were something where we could definitively prove it, and then 437 00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:22,359 Speaker 1: that would change major things, like essentially a lot of 438 00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:26,199 Speaker 1: people would have to answer some very tough questions in 439 00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:30,440 Speaker 1: regards to philosophy and religion particularly, but other things as well. 440 00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:33,600 Speaker 1: But those two, in particularly, some very nice philosophy departments 441 00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:36,199 Speaker 1: would be more or less out of jobs. Yeah, well, 442 00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:39,600 Speaker 1: you know, actually they went step away from being out 443 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:42,520 Speaker 1: of a job. Anyway, Come on, we're talking about philosophy here. Snap. 444 00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:49,280 Speaker 1: This is coming from a literature major. Okay, I did 445 00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:51,439 Speaker 1: you see that this is off topic? But there was 446 00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:56,840 Speaker 1: a list I think of the most unemployable majors came out. 447 00:26:57,040 --> 00:27:00,800 Speaker 1: Philosophy I think was in the top three. Yeah, literature 448 00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:03,240 Speaker 1: was in the top ten. Was it was it? I 449 00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:06,080 Speaker 1: was created writing? Do you have any creative writing? I 450 00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:08,600 Speaker 1: think they didn't even put them in there. It's like, 451 00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:13,399 Speaker 1: are you Neil Gaiman? No? Um, hey, I'm an editor. 452 00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:16,119 Speaker 1: I'm working in my field, folks. That's true, that's true. 453 00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:20,000 Speaker 1: I'm I don't know what my field would be. Some 454 00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:22,359 Speaker 1: of the medieval literature. I guess I'd be teaching medieval 455 00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:25,080 Speaker 1: literature if I were in my field. But it's funny 456 00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:28,879 Speaker 1: that I went into technology podcasting instead. So anyway, ultimately, 457 00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:31,680 Speaker 1: I don't think it would really matter. There's no way 458 00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:35,440 Speaker 1: of knowing currently one way or the other. So from 459 00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:40,399 Speaker 1: that perspective, from a thought exercise, right, yeah, So ultimately, uh, 460 00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:42,359 Speaker 1: it may or may not matter if we're in a 461 00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:45,920 Speaker 1: computer simulation. But the other question to ask is how 462 00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:49,560 Speaker 1: feasible is it? How would it be possible to actually 463 00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:52,480 Speaker 1: create a universe on this What would it take to 464 00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:54,880 Speaker 1: create a universe on this scale? Right? And I mean 465 00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:58,240 Speaker 1: because simulating something is actually very much more complicated than 466 00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:02,240 Speaker 1: just doing it. For for example, um. I was reading 467 00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:05,199 Speaker 1: one article that that sited a number where if you 468 00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:07,040 Speaker 1: were to take a hard drive and you wanted to 469 00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:11,040 Speaker 1: create a simulation of that entire hard drive, you would 470 00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:13,840 Speaker 1: have to simulate every single adom, minute, record, its position. 471 00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:17,720 Speaker 1: It's it's time scale, everything about it. That would be 472 00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:19,600 Speaker 1: you know, and and and every single atomant and hard 473 00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:21,840 Speaker 1: drive is maybeing intend to the power of twenty four 474 00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:26,800 Speaker 1: atoms a couple a bunch um and but in order 475 00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:29,480 Speaker 1: to simulate it, you would have to about have about 476 00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:31,520 Speaker 1: a hundred bits of information at least on each of 477 00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:34,720 Speaker 1: those atoms. Right. So so when you think about that, 478 00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:38,160 Speaker 1: if this world is or this universe is a computer simulation, 479 00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:40,480 Speaker 1: then that means the simulation has to take into account 480 00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:44,240 Speaker 1: every single object within that world, whether that object is 481 00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:47,200 Speaker 1: part of something else or or an individual object. Uh. 482 00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:51,440 Speaker 1: It's position, it's uh, if it's moving, its relationship to 483 00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:56,280 Speaker 1: every other object within that universe, how that objects behavior? 484 00:28:56,840 --> 00:28:59,800 Speaker 1: You know, however you wanted to find that affects other objects. 485 00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:03,400 Speaker 1: It's it's are you going down to the atomic scale? 486 00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:05,480 Speaker 1: Are you going to the sub atomic scale? How how 487 00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:08,120 Speaker 1: deep does the rabbit hole go? Right? Right? Because because 488 00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:10,720 Speaker 1: the other problem here is that as we the human 489 00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:12,960 Speaker 1: beings who live right here and now, whether it's a 490 00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:15,520 Speaker 1: computer simulation or not, get more advanced, we get to 491 00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:17,480 Speaker 1: learn more about our environment and we get to look 492 00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:20,040 Speaker 1: even deeper than we could before. So like, let's go 493 00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:23,479 Speaker 1: back to the Stone Age, no microscopes, nothing like anything 494 00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:26,480 Speaker 1: that was beyond our ability to actually see it didn't 495 00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:29,600 Speaker 1: exist in our minds. And then we got more and 496 00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:31,760 Speaker 1: more advanced, and we were able to suddenly start seeing 497 00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:34,080 Speaker 1: things that are tinier and tinier. And then we get 498 00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:36,440 Speaker 1: to the point where we've got electron tunneling microscopes and 499 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:39,080 Speaker 1: we can move individual atoms into place and we can 500 00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:41,360 Speaker 1: see things that are really far away. That would mean 501 00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:43,880 Speaker 1: that the simulation would have to take into account the 502 00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:49,400 Speaker 1: ability for us to see well beyond what we first right, 503 00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:53,080 Speaker 1: So that's kind of incredible to think about that way, 504 00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:55,000 Speaker 1: Like how much power would you have to have to 505 00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:57,800 Speaker 1: generate this? Is it something that would be added over 506 00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:01,360 Speaker 1: time so that like you know, one, someone's checking in 507 00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:04,240 Speaker 1: every now and like, oh they can see Adams now, 508 00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:06,960 Speaker 1: all right, well we got to build the next level down, guys, 509 00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:10,400 Speaker 1: or or like fire up that extra server. We're gonna 510 00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:13,160 Speaker 1: need it to exactly, like, you know, it's some place 511 00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:17,560 Speaker 1: in this other larger universes North Carolina, there's another server 512 00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:21,000 Speaker 1: farm being built. Yeah, I mean it's it's it blows 513 00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:23,080 Speaker 1: the mind. It becomes one of these things where you, 514 00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:25,400 Speaker 1: as you start to think about it, you're like, would 515 00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:28,920 Speaker 1: that even be possible? Now, from a futurists argument, they 516 00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:31,800 Speaker 1: might say that in the future will be able to 517 00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:34,840 Speaker 1: do things like harness the power of black holes to 518 00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:38,520 Speaker 1: do computing, in which case the limitations of computing suddenly 519 00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:43,400 Speaker 1: seem like a non problem. Sure, even with quantum computers, 520 00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:46,320 Speaker 1: which they're already experimenting with. We've gotten up to a 521 00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:50,320 Speaker 1: sixteen sixteen cubits was the last reliable one, but we've 522 00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:52,640 Speaker 1: had there been larger ones. The problem with, of course, 523 00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:54,920 Speaker 1: quantum computers is that as soon as you really observe 524 00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:58,160 Speaker 1: the state there in it collapses, that deco hears and 525 00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:00,960 Speaker 1: you end up with a classical computer or that is 526 00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:04,760 Speaker 1: severely underpowered compared to any other normal classical computer. But 527 00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:07,960 Speaker 1: there are people who are working on that problem. So yeah, 528 00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:11,960 Speaker 1: I mean that it may be that reaching such a 529 00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:15,120 Speaker 1: level of computing power is not possible, And in fact, 530 00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:17,080 Speaker 1: that was part of Bostrom's point was that he was 531 00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:19,440 Speaker 1: not necessarily saying we live in a computer simulation. He 532 00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:21,720 Speaker 1: was saying, there's another way of looking at this. We 533 00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:24,680 Speaker 1: can look at this is saying trans human or post 534 00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:27,080 Speaker 1: human in the sense that the futurists have defined. It 535 00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:30,880 Speaker 1: is an impossibility that we will never get to a 536 00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:33,880 Speaker 1: point where we have computing power so vast as to 537 00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:38,200 Speaker 1: be able to simulate an entire universe down to the 538 00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:42,719 Speaker 1: tiniest detail and have it populated with intelligent creatures, right 539 00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:46,080 Speaker 1: or even beyond the feasibility of that, the idea that 540 00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:49,200 Speaker 1: probably we're going to kill all of each other way 541 00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:51,880 Speaker 1: before that. Actually that that was another point. One of 542 00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:54,040 Speaker 1: his points is saying that it's way more likely than 543 00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:57,720 Speaker 1: any any sort of civilization reaching post human or trans 544 00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:02,240 Speaker 1: human uh status would end up wiping itself out in 545 00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:05,640 Speaker 1: some sort of cataclysmic event, whether on purpose or by accident. 546 00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:09,560 Speaker 1: So we could have, hey, we have reached this level 547 00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:12,600 Speaker 1: of superiority. Now we are going to force our ideological 548 00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:15,400 Speaker 1: values upon everybody else, and everybody else says no, you're not, 549 00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:18,240 Speaker 1: and then we all kill each other, or we say, hey, 550 00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:22,840 Speaker 1: was this button? Do zombie outbreak? Those are the only 551 00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:27,280 Speaker 1: two possibilities. That's a lie. But no, that spostor's point 552 00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:29,840 Speaker 1: is that that could also be a case. It's really 553 00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:33,000 Speaker 1: a depressing case, but you could say humankind could hit 554 00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:36,280 Speaker 1: extinction before we hit post humans. More fun to think 555 00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:39,240 Speaker 1: about that other thing. But overall, zombie, I'll break I agree, 556 00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:45,480 Speaker 1: walking dead man right down the street from me, that's 557 00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:48,520 Speaker 1: just to land on normal traffic. That's true, that's true. 558 00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:52,000 Speaker 1: It's it's pretty much it's the office before we get 559 00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:55,960 Speaker 1: to the coffee machine. It is. It gets ugly folks, 560 00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:59,400 Speaker 1: a lot of walkers, a lot of walkers. But yeah, 561 00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:02,080 Speaker 1: that's I'm that's a good point, is that it you know, 562 00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:06,560 Speaker 1: we could we humankind could go extinct. That's one downside. 563 00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:09,520 Speaker 1: We might not ever be able to reach that level 564 00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:13,400 Speaker 1: of computational achievement in order to to ever simulate a universe. 565 00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:18,040 Speaker 1: That's depending upon whom you ask, also a downside. Or 566 00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:22,680 Speaker 1: we just might never know. So yeah, sometimes that leads, 567 00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:26,080 Speaker 1: it leads us to to explore the question further. Really, Yeah, 568 00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:29,800 Speaker 1: and we've we've seen that explored in multiple venues, not 569 00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:32,920 Speaker 1: just philosophy, not just science, but entertainment all over the place. Yeah, 570 00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:34,840 Speaker 1: I mean, going back to a lot of Shakespeare stories 571 00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:37,000 Speaker 1: we're talking about really, like, like, what's the difference between 572 00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:39,120 Speaker 1: dreams and reality? Midsummer Night's Dream is kind of a 573 00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:42,640 Speaker 1: big one. We are such stuff as dreams are made on. 574 00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:48,360 Speaker 1: Thank you, Jonathan, oh brieve, new world to have such people, 575 00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:55,440 Speaker 1: and it tis new to the that's the tempest right there. 576 00:33:55,800 --> 00:34:00,960 Speaker 1: That's that's our that's our literature major over here. Yeah, well, 577 00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:02,960 Speaker 1: you know, I used the degree once in a while, 578 00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:06,680 Speaker 1: but more perhaps more modern things. A few a few 579 00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:09,759 Speaker 1: of you have probably seen the Matrix. I know, kunk fu, 580 00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:14,080 Speaker 1: I keep quote, let's just keep going. I got it, 581 00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:18,040 Speaker 1: I got this Vanilla sky. Oh no, I haven't seen that. Yeah, 582 00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:21,560 Speaker 1: I can't do that documentary or the Spanish version. Afftert. 583 00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:25,160 Speaker 1: Let's all host do you speak Spanish? There we go. 584 00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:32,920 Speaker 1: That was my total recall. Inception. Um, that's that's that's 585 00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:38,800 Speaker 1: every other shorts and negative not inception at all. I know. 586 00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:44,799 Speaker 1: The inception one would be that's inception love love these movies. 587 00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:46,520 Speaker 1: By the way, I'm making a lot of fun, but no, 588 00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:48,600 Speaker 1: these are good points. I mean, you do you do 589 00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:51,040 Speaker 1: see this theme come up over and over again? Total recall? 590 00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:53,919 Speaker 1: What is real? What is being imagined. Is the entire 591 00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:57,040 Speaker 1: story actually only happening in Quaid? That was his name? 592 00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:01,960 Speaker 1: Rights mine ah or inception? And are you still within 593 00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:04,399 Speaker 1: a dream? Are you one level down in a dream? 594 00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:06,520 Speaker 1: Are you two levels down? At the very end of 595 00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:12,080 Speaker 1: the movie is the is the main character is right? Which? 596 00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:15,040 Speaker 1: And of course that brings into questions something else. This 597 00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:18,200 Speaker 1: this is a good argument that falls within the same 598 00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:20,160 Speaker 1: sort of thing about being able to tell versus not 599 00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:23,400 Speaker 1: being able to tell. Uh. This is big spoilers for 600 00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:26,480 Speaker 1: Inception here, obviously, but one of the one of the 601 00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:29,080 Speaker 1: things they set up in an Inception is that one 602 00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:31,520 Speaker 1: way you can tell if you are in a dream 603 00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:34,000 Speaker 1: is you have a totem that is specific to you 604 00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:37,640 Speaker 1: and behaves a certain way in the real world, but 605 00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:41,479 Speaker 1: in dream space it does not behave that way. Why 606 00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:45,800 Speaker 1: who knows, But it's convenient physics, right. The main character 607 00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:48,239 Speaker 1: has a top, so if he spins the top and 608 00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:51,120 Speaker 1: the top stops spinning, he knows he's in the real world. 609 00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:53,400 Speaker 1: If he's a layer down into a dream world and 610 00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:56,040 Speaker 1: he spins the top, it just keeps spinning. And that's 611 00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:59,680 Speaker 1: how he can look at a moment and know if 612 00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:02,960 Speaker 1: he's an a dream or if he's awake. Uh, there's 613 00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:05,520 Speaker 1: a problem with this though. If the whole thing is 614 00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:08,720 Speaker 1: within a dream, there's nothing to stop the dream world 615 00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:11,960 Speaker 1: from saying at a certain level, this top behaves a 616 00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:14,680 Speaker 1: different way. So, in other words, even at the top 617 00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:18,399 Speaker 1: topples over, which into the movie gives you this kind 618 00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:22,839 Speaker 1: of idea, is it gonna But even at the top 619 00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:25,240 Speaker 1: worred to topple over, that would not answer the question 620 00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:26,600 Speaker 1: of whether or not you were in a dream, because 621 00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:30,759 Speaker 1: it only depends upon if that level is real or not. 622 00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:33,040 Speaker 1: And if it's not real, if that's just another point 623 00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:34,520 Speaker 1: of the dream, then all it means is that the 624 00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:37,120 Speaker 1: behaviors of stuff in one level the dream behave differently 625 00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:40,600 Speaker 1: than the others. And and similarly, if if our if 626 00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:43,360 Speaker 1: our future trans human selves decided to make it so 627 00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:46,319 Speaker 1: that we cannot detect whether or not we are in 628 00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:49,360 Speaker 1: a dream, then yeah, we're kind of stuck. Yeah, the 629 00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:51,880 Speaker 1: same thing with the matrix, the whole idea of creating 630 00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:56,160 Speaker 1: a universe that is not ideal, because if we created 631 00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:59,239 Speaker 1: an ideal universe, humans would go, this can't be real. 632 00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:03,600 Speaker 1: My life stinks. There's no way my life is this awesome, 633 00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:06,600 Speaker 1: And uh, and then we have a universe filled with 634 00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:12,839 Speaker 1: Jonathan Stripling's and nobody wants that. Nobody, nobody wants, not 635 00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:16,720 Speaker 1: even Jonathan's. And look, I'm enough to deal with already. 636 00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:20,600 Speaker 1: But yeah, no, there's there's tons of examples. There's there's 637 00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:24,760 Speaker 1: a lot in science fiction obviously, obviously, especially since since 638 00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:27,759 Speaker 1: William Gibson in the entire cyberpunk thing became a thing, 639 00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:30,360 Speaker 1: you know, and that's that's sort of our our entrance 640 00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:32,480 Speaker 1: into into how did I just make up a word 641 00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:34,000 Speaker 1: in French? I don't think that that's an actual thing. 642 00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:40,399 Speaker 1: Um Ever, Ever since cyberpunk happened, we've been we've been 643 00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:43,520 Speaker 1: looking at technology in in this fearful way, which we 644 00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:45,239 Speaker 1: always kind of do in horror films. I think that 645 00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:47,160 Speaker 1: fiction is a really terrific way for us to work 646 00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:49,920 Speaker 1: out our anxieties because we can go like, well, in 647 00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:53,399 Speaker 1: this scary world, all of this terrible things. I think 648 00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:55,680 Speaker 1: all of these terrible things will happen. However, we're going 649 00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:57,960 Speaker 1: to have some attractive people in pleather who are going 650 00:37:58,000 --> 00:37:59,880 Speaker 1: to take care of it for us. And that's or 651 00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:04,200 Speaker 1: die and die in numerous with Yeah, like you said, yeah, 652 00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:06,399 Speaker 1: it's science fiction and horror the two genres I think 653 00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:08,440 Speaker 1: of the most when I think about this kind of mentality, 654 00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:11,759 Speaker 1: because I also think of things like other movies. Here's 655 00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:15,799 Speaker 1: another spoiler. Guys, if you're a Josh Ween fan, this 656 00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:18,480 Speaker 1: is a spoiler. So spoiler. For Josh Weed fans you 657 00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:22,160 Speaker 1: can skip ahead. But Cavin in the Woods another example 658 00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:26,399 Speaker 1: of like what is real and what is what is artifice? Yes, 659 00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:29,439 Speaker 1: what has been simulated, So there you go, same sort 660 00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:32,080 Speaker 1: of thing. Um. I don't think that's a huge spoiler 661 00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:34,799 Speaker 1: because that's revealed early in the movie. But still, um, 662 00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:38,759 Speaker 1: at any rate, these are you know, we've explored this 663 00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:42,840 Speaker 1: idea and multiple forms of media, whether it's entertainment or 664 00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:48,640 Speaker 1: also in multiple disciplines entertainment, science, philosophy, and I don't 665 00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:51,439 Speaker 1: think it's gonna go away anytime soon because obviously there's 666 00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:54,239 Speaker 1: no way for us to answer this question, not not 667 00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:57,839 Speaker 1: unless we detect that last structure. And even then you're like, well, 668 00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:00,680 Speaker 1: well then who created us? That could mean anything, that 669 00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:03,400 Speaker 1: could mean. And also it could be like inception. We 670 00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:07,359 Speaker 1: might be seventy eight levels down from reality. It could 671 00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:10,040 Speaker 1: be that marble in the Men in Black. Yeah, yeah, 672 00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:12,640 Speaker 1: then yeah, exactly, yes, we could be we could be 673 00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:16,080 Speaker 1: a moat of dust upon the nose of a dog 674 00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:19,400 Speaker 1: in another universe, which in itself is a moat of 675 00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:21,960 Speaker 1: dust upon the nose of another dog, And another universe, 676 00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:24,480 Speaker 1: which in itself is a moat of dust upon Douglas 677 00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:27,680 Speaker 1: Adams pencil as he giggles maniacally and writes another book, 678 00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:30,880 Speaker 1: because in that universe he's still around. I like that 679 00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:33,200 Speaker 1: universe too. I want to I want to I want 680 00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:36,759 Speaker 1: to go to their But yeah, it's a it's a 681 00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:41,000 Speaker 1: really interesting question. So, um, and if you've heard about 682 00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:44,480 Speaker 1: this whole thing, because it came up in conversations towards 683 00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:46,000 Speaker 1: the end of two thousand twelve, which is kind of 684 00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:51,439 Speaker 1: interesting because the first, uh, the publication of Bostrom's work 685 00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:54,440 Speaker 1: was in the early two thousand I think, yeah, so, 686 00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:57,560 Speaker 1: but in this case, it was because the physicists had said, hey, 687 00:39:57,600 --> 00:39:59,080 Speaker 1: there might be a way for us to find out 688 00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:03,920 Speaker 1: maybe possible, probably not, but it could happen. And even then, 689 00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:05,279 Speaker 1: we're going to have to get to a level of 690 00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:09,560 Speaker 1: technological uh advancement that is beyond what we have now 691 00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:12,879 Speaker 1: before we could even hope to detect these cosmic rays 692 00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:16,799 Speaker 1: but uh, and their behavior. But but we'll see. I 693 00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:19,239 Speaker 1: mean again, I'm not. I don't think anything's going to 694 00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:22,520 Speaker 1: change in the in the the long term. There might 695 00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:24,319 Speaker 1: be some short term freak out if we were ever 696 00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:26,360 Speaker 1: to find out. But yeah, but you know, in in 697 00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:28,120 Speaker 1: the end, we are, we are what we are, we 698 00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:31,680 Speaker 1: are what I am. Thank you, Popeye. And with that 699 00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:35,799 Speaker 1: we close this book known as tech Stuff the Philosophy, 700 00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:37,920 Speaker 1: and we will open up a new chapter in the 701 00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:41,839 Speaker 1: next episode, possibly about a totally different topic, actually very 702 00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:44,200 Speaker 1: likely about a totally different topic. If you guys have 703 00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:47,040 Speaker 1: any topics you think we should talk about in future 704 00:40:47,080 --> 00:40:49,520 Speaker 1: episodes of tech Stuff, I recommend you let us know, 705 00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:51,759 Speaker 1: because we have not figured out how to read your 706 00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:54,320 Speaker 1: mind yet. If you would send us an email ur 707 00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:57,160 Speaker 1: and just as tech Stuff at Discovery dot com, or 708 00:40:57,320 --> 00:40:59,560 Speaker 1: drop us a line on Facebook or Twitter, you can 709 00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:03,320 Speaker 1: find our handle their tech Stuff H. S. W. Lauren 710 00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:07,200 Speaker 1: and I will talk to you again really soon. For 711 00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:09,839 Speaker 1: more on this and thousands of other topics, visit how 712 00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:14,960 Speaker 1: staff works dot com.