Speaker 1: Welcome to Movie Crush production of I Heart Radio. Hey everybody,
Speaker 1: and welcome to Movie Crush Friday Interview edition. And everybody,
Speaker 1: I am looking at my laptop zoom screen at the
Speaker 1: face of many drivers. Chu. Hi there, how are you?
Speaker 1: I'm all right? How are you? I'm great. Uh. We'll
Speaker 1: reveal the big reveal later. But I recorded yesterday with
Speaker 1: Many for something else, and so we're old friends now.
Speaker 1: Practically that was a really great conversation. I'm not going
Speaker 1: to lie that was it was. It's fun to have
Speaker 1: those these days. I think it is maybe that the
Speaker 1: whole notion of um conversing with each other in these
Speaker 1: times of separation. UM, maybe it'll be like a whole
Speaker 1: new thing, a whole new thing moving forward with a
Speaker 1: better normal. Right, Yeah, I mean that is that a
Speaker 1: description of evolution? I'm on some level, you know, moving
Speaker 1: forward with a with a better normal. Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: it's your feels like we've got to get slingshot into
Speaker 1: something something else and hopefully better. Yeah. And just to
Speaker 1: put that in context, everybody, Uh, the day that we're
Speaker 1: recording is uh, the twenty one of January, the day
Speaker 1: after Joe Biden has President Joe Biden has taken office,
Speaker 1: and we stopped recording yesterday about an hour before the inauguration,
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, I know everything is still sort
Speaker 1: of the same for now, but it sure feels more
Speaker 1: positive to me. To me too, I found it very moving.
Speaker 1: Not j Loo. I didn't find Jlo moving. I found
Speaker 1: Jlo like fabulous, But I found it to be extraordinarily moving.
Speaker 1: Seeing seeing Doug m Hoff holding the Bible for Kamala Harris,
Speaker 1: seeing a man holding the Bible for a woman being
Speaker 1: sworn in, it just did something for me, the little
Speaker 1: girl that I was, the interested in politics person. It
Speaker 1: felt like we really were carving a new path. So
Speaker 1: that was very exciting. Did you see her in the
Speaker 1: Senate when she had to announce her own resignation, I
Speaker 1: was very funny. I didn't. I didn't see it. I
Speaker 1: read the opera that she wrote in the San Francisco Chronicle,
Speaker 1: but I didn't. Why what happened, Well, I mean just
Speaker 1: for as far as official business. She had to resign
Speaker 1: from the Senate and as Vice president, and I think
Speaker 1: had to announce the new uh not the new hirings.
Speaker 1: I mean it's not a Fortune five company, but had
Speaker 1: to announce the new um like we're knocking ass off,
Speaker 1: and then who was who was coming in, who was leaving?
Speaker 1: And she had to announce, you know, Kamala Harris uh
Speaker 1: resigns from the Senate. And then she just started cracking
Speaker 1: up and said that was really weird. She just got
Speaker 1: such a great smile and personality, like human human. She
Speaker 1: not a she not a a strange automaton. She a
Speaker 1: human person. She is human and a boy how about
Speaker 1: Lady Gaga? Wasn't that great? Oh my gosh, you know
Speaker 1: my boyfriend, my boyfriend's mom. She was like, oh, I
Speaker 1: didn't you think Madonna was great? Adorable? That was Lady Gaga.
Speaker 1: She was like, well, you know, she was fabulous too.
Speaker 1: It was human. I mean, that was It was some strange,
Speaker 1: beautiful pageantry, but truly beyond President Biden and Vice President
Speaker 1: Kamala Harris, that that day belonged to Amanda Gorman. That
Speaker 1: that woman is one of the most I had the
Speaker 1: pleasure of hearing her. I was am seeing an event
Speaker 1: for women, a women's event a couple of years ago,
Speaker 1: and she she came and she I don't know what
Speaker 1: the correct way of saying what she does because reciting
Speaker 1: her poetry seems super formal and weird, and I'm I'm
Speaker 1: not cool enough to sort of say that whatever the
Speaker 1: kids would say that. I watched her and there is
Speaker 1: there's something incandescent about her because she is so connected
Speaker 1: to what she is saying, not to the effect that
Speaker 1: it's having. I mean, as a performer, you get a
Speaker 1: pretty you get a pretty clear nose for when someone
Speaker 1: is trying to manipulate an audience, and that girl is
Speaker 1: just connected to something that articulates truth and beauty in
Speaker 1: a way that I've rarely come across. She is magnificent
Speaker 1: and she looked fine. I mean it was a look
Speaker 1: great and just um. I don't know when anyone starts
Speaker 1: to get down on generations to come behind them, I
Speaker 1: get really, I mean, it's easy to dunk on millennials
Speaker 1: and gen Z or whatever they're calling everything. But I
Speaker 1: have great hope for the future, and I think they're
Speaker 1: they're doing it better than than gen X did. I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm proud gen X her, but I don't know, we
Speaker 1: were pretty lazy and slightly hungover gen X. I feel fit, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I feel like the most I did was
Speaker 1: like overpluck my eyebrows. It feels like, really that's my signature,
Speaker 1: like a lot of really dark red lipstick, thin eyebrows,
Speaker 1: and like a bad attitude. I'm like watching a lot
Speaker 1: of Ethan Hawk movies. Well it seems bad. Who didn't,
Speaker 1: were you goss ever? No? Hell No, I had crazy hair.
Speaker 1: I was my nickname at school was Slash, like I had.
Speaker 1: I looked bananas. I look like a firework. It exploded
Speaker 1: on my head. But that's the best here though. I
Speaker 1: know it gives and it takes, give it and take
Speaker 1: it away. But you did have the confidence to pull
Speaker 1: it off. Like I really, I looked like a muppet.
Speaker 1: I was called animal. I was called Slash. And there's
Speaker 1: this there's this hexagonal coin that we have in England
Speaker 1: called a fifty p which is basically like fifty cents.
Speaker 1: And I was called fifty face because I've got this
Speaker 1: this really the best face. Well, thank you so much.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, you know my face, but it's
Speaker 1: it's definitely got a you know, super kind of well
Speaker 1: apparently hexagonal. Um. But yeah, kids, kids totally are you know,
Speaker 1: kids are awful, and but they they give you something
Speaker 1: to push up against. I mean, if you're lucky and
Speaker 1: they don't kill you. Where was this going to Was
Speaker 1: in m in deepest darkest England, in the countryside, at
Speaker 1: this truly amazing school that I went to that I
Speaker 1: have to say, you know, for all of them, for
Speaker 1: all of the names and the whatever. It was the
Speaker 1: the absolute breeding ground of everything that I love and
Speaker 1: everything that I've been able to do in my life. So, um, yeah,
Speaker 1: I loved my school. No, not at all, but it was.
Speaker 1: It was very progressive and when we were there, we
Speaker 1: were about self sufficient, so we did a lot of
Speaker 1: um uh, taking care of the animals, taking care of
Speaker 1: the farm buildings. You would have what's called outdoor work
Speaker 1: as part of your curriculum, so you'd have double maths
Speaker 1: and then you'd have outdoor work where you'd be on
Speaker 1: a tractor setting up whatever fields were going to have
Speaker 1: crops planted in them, um, picking fruit in the summer. Um.
Speaker 1: And it's there's this amazing pottery so you would go
Speaker 1: and when plates and bowls were broken, you would go
Speaker 1: and make more, and then you'd go and have a
Speaker 1: math class. And it was super academic but also um,
Speaker 1: very very much community orientated and about teaching you about
Speaker 1: being in the world and skills other than mathematics, reading
Speaker 1: and science, which of course obvious really important. But I
Speaker 1: spent a lot of time in the fields. Yeah it
Speaker 1: was great. Do you still have a connection to the
Speaker 1: country in nature? And yeah, huge, huge, I'm it's that's
Speaker 1: my that is my church. The ocean and and being
Speaker 1: out in nature is pretty much everything. It's where I
Speaker 1: really like to be all of the time. UM. Clear
Speaker 1: that up. Do you like to go camping or do
Speaker 1: you like sitting on a a lovely verandah overlooking the countryside.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'll do but I love camping. I love camping,
Speaker 1: but I really like being in bodies of water. I have. UM,
Speaker 1: I was kind of famous in my family for always
Speaker 1: wearing a swimsuit under anything and everything. Yeah, and I
Speaker 1: did it. I got I got a call from when I,
Speaker 1: you know, first moved to Hollywood, when I was in
Speaker 1: my early twenties, and you know, I was being invited
Speaker 1: to these parties and like I got, I got a
Speaker 1: call from my agent going you know that party you
Speaker 1: went to. Um, the lady was like a little word
Speaker 1: that you Um, you kind of cleared all of her
Speaker 1: floating votives and then dived in, but I just just like,
Speaker 1: I've kind of done the party. I didn't know have
Speaker 1: anything to say to anybody. I didn't really know anyone.
Speaker 1: I've been introduced as Mandy dry Fust by this guy
Speaker 1: who apparently worked from my agency, and I was like,
Speaker 1: you know, screw this. I'm just so I took my
Speaker 1: dress off and I folded it very neatly, and I
Speaker 1: did clear the votives away, and then I dived in
Speaker 1: and I went swimming, and it was great. Good for you. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I started a pool party. Uh no, nobody else did.
Speaker 1: Everybody looked horrified. But then I bought a trailer by
Speaker 1: in in Malibu, where I've lived for about twenty two years,
Speaker 1: UM in this mobile home park, and I serve every day,
Speaker 1: or I did UM and swim every day. I'm a
Speaker 1: I'm a big cold water swimmer. It's are you. I
Speaker 1: love cold water and I'm a bit of a all
Speaker 1: or bear, so I like cold weather and cold water.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm ready for spring and summer when it comes.
Speaker 1: But I'm not afraid to get in cold water at
Speaker 1: all too just experience, like I've been in some very
Speaker 1: very cold mountain lakes in Colorado. When people just thought,
Speaker 1: you know, my friends and I are crazy. But it's
Speaker 1: it's exhilarating. It really like makes you feel so alive.
Speaker 1: It definitely does. It's um, it's really amazing. I've been
Speaker 1: watching in London we have this, um, this big body
Speaker 1: of water called the Serpentine in the middle of Hyde
Speaker 1: Park and and people go in it when it's the
Speaker 1: water is like it's two degrees, When it's two degrees
Speaker 1: santig so it's minus whatever, and you're I mean it's
Speaker 1: it's insanely cold. You can go in for like forty
Speaker 1: five seconds. But people come out and there's all these
Speaker 1: stories of um genuine like healing happening, like physically of
Speaker 1: the hearts becoming stronger and lungs becoming clearer. And UM.
Speaker 1: I found mentally swimming because I saw m quite long distances,
Speaker 1: not when it's super super super freezing, but just generally
Speaker 1: in the Pacific, and I never found any therapy or meditation.
Speaker 1: It was better for everything than go and then swimming
Speaker 1: for you know, a solid mile in the Pacific. That's amazing.
Speaker 1: Have you seen my octopus teacher? Yeah? I have, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I have. I totally get it. I get it. I'm
Speaker 1: I am crazy about octopuses. I really, I really am
Speaker 1: crazy about them. I could never eat one because they
Speaker 1: are They are so clever and so brilliant and the
Speaker 1: closest thing that we have to an extraterrestrial brain in
Speaker 1: terms of like our evolution. Um that they're extraordinary. I
Speaker 1: can't believe that they only live for a year, but
Speaker 1: a year doesn't really mean anything to them. It's just
Speaker 1: it's just existence. We can't put our human ship on them. No,
Speaker 1: we do that all the time to everything. What was
Speaker 1: your family creative? Like, how did when did you decide
Speaker 1: you wanted to act? Was it something that you had
Speaker 1: siblings that did our parents that were into it, or
Speaker 1: was it all you? You know what? I think, I
Speaker 1: really do believe it was all me. According to my parents,
Speaker 1: it was all me. It was from a very very
Speaker 1: very young age. Um probably I think I devised my
Speaker 1: first like proper show play when I was about six
Speaker 1: and I realized, I very very immediately realized that there
Speaker 1: is something truly transactional about an audience and a performer
Speaker 1: and that clearly they were having a really good time.
Speaker 1: And I absolutely loved the creation of that good time.
Speaker 1: So it it never felt like a job, but it
Speaker 1: it immediately became an ambition to figure out a way
Speaker 1: of doing that as much as possible for as long
Speaker 1: as possible. To like school plays and that whole deal. Yeah,
Speaker 1: all the school plays and I'm at the school I
Speaker 1: went to. We had a we had an enormous um.
Speaker 1: Like the older kids would direct the younger kids in
Speaker 1: in short plays. They would make weird short films on
Speaker 1: Super eight. So you were you were constantly kind of
Speaker 1: being like when I was, um, you know, eleven or twelve,
Speaker 1: I was being directed by like sixteen fifteen, sixteen year
Speaker 1: olds and so you were constantly making stuff um And
Speaker 1: I remember one of my earliest memories was we were
Speaker 1: studying Um As You Like It by Shakespeare, which has
Speaker 1: the Forest of Arden in it. And we arrived for
Speaker 1: the class and the teacher said right, and he gave
Speaker 1: us these ordinance survey maps and compasses, and he said,
Speaker 1: I'm going to put you into groups, and I'd like
Speaker 1: you to go out and scout the forest of Arden.
Speaker 1: And we're in the middle, like we're in the middle
Speaker 1: of the country side. We were like, okay, So off
Speaker 1: we went in the groups of four to find a
Speaker 1: place where the idea was that we would all decide
Speaker 1: what the best location was and then we would build
Speaker 1: like like rough seating and we would rehearse and we
Speaker 1: would put the play on there for the rest of
Speaker 1: the school and it was so cool. It was honestly
Speaker 1: one of the most amazing experiences. It's how it's how
Speaker 1: it gets into your bones when you it's imaginative and
Speaker 1: you love it on every level. Yeah, and it's a
Speaker 1: it's a it's a shared experience, you know, it's um.
Speaker 1: I mean writing is solitary, that aspect of it is
Speaker 1: for the most part, unless you're collaborating with probably one
Speaker 1: other person. But um, putting on a play or or
Speaker 1: a movie or a television show. I used to work
Speaker 1: on film cruise. That's what I used to do in
Speaker 1: my previous life. It's like a p A and then
Speaker 1: art department stuff. And you know, there's something about people
Speaker 1: getting together with a common goal that's just great. It
Speaker 1: is a family, is completely, I mean, it's it is.
Speaker 1: It's so familial. It is such a community. I love
Speaker 1: the hierarchy of it. I love that everybody, everybody there
Speaker 1: to do a specific job, but you all have the
Speaker 1: same goal. Um, and I love the cameraderie. I mean,
Speaker 1: I've got to say I've been told off so many times,
Speaker 1: Like you know, in l A, Like when I'm walking
Speaker 1: around the streets and if i see some cable, you know,
Speaker 1: coming down the street, and I'm like when I'll like
Speaker 1: follow the cable and I'll see there's a crew, and
Speaker 1: I'll be like, oh, well, maybe I know someone, you know,
Speaker 1: And I a little shuffle around and sure enough, like
Speaker 1: I'll know some whether it's a grip or an actor
Speaker 1: or a p A or the director or someone. And
Speaker 1: I just I love it. It feels it feels very
Speaker 1: much like home to me. Sets. Yeah, for sure, it's
Speaker 1: like summer camp. Is it is. And that's why people
Speaker 1: sort of get in trouble with sort of with with
Speaker 1: behaving badly, is because they think that it's like fairyland
Speaker 1: and all the rules of you know, all of the
Speaker 1: societal contracts no longer exists, and that you can behave
Speaker 1: with impunity and it's just not true. But you get
Speaker 1: your hand slapped a few times, hopefully you learn that, right.
Speaker 1: Cinematic community. I remember people talking about cinematic community. Cinematic
Speaker 1: kind of do whatever the hell you want. And it's
Speaker 1: like you really can't. But I remember like falling in
Speaker 1: love with some actor on some movie and like this
Speaker 1: wizened old costumer saying, honey, you know that that relationship
Speaker 1: does not have legs. And I was like, what do
Speaker 1: you mean. She's like, it doesn't have legs. It's not
Speaker 1: walking off the set and I was like, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure he's going to marry me. That's probably
Speaker 1: really hard though, to play in love. And uh, I
Speaker 1: don't know. I mean, I certainly would fool myself into
Speaker 1: thinking that stuff is real. You it is. It is
Speaker 1: an absolute occupational hazard falling for people within the confines
Speaker 1: of a film set, you know, in any department. It really,
Speaker 1: it really is, because it's you are so um. I
Speaker 1: don't know exactly what it is, but there is there's
Speaker 1: just this weird idea of like you're you're all creating
Speaker 1: something and you're all together all the time, and there
Speaker 1: is this weird thing of the rules don't apply, but
Speaker 1: you know they don't. Everyone there is doing something they're
Speaker 1: passionate about, and passion begets passion, and you know, it's
Speaker 1: just the way it works. I think, yeah, yeah, exactly,
Speaker 1: have you ever wanted to direct. Yeah, definitely, I definitely do.
Speaker 1: I'm actually writing a short film at the moment that
Speaker 1: I'm going to direct. Yeah. I mean I say that.
Speaker 1: I say it so that it will happen. I say
Speaker 1: it like that, not just that I have a big
Speaker 1: pile of money sitting around that is, you know, cordoned
Speaker 1: off waiting for me to make this film. I'm going
Speaker 1: to have to struggle to make it. But yeah, that's
Speaker 1: the idea. That's great. I've watched for a really long time.
Speaker 1: I've watched really amazing directors direct, and I love actors
Speaker 1: and I know about acting. So I really believe that
Speaker 1: we're a strong first idea and in in excellence in photographer
Speaker 1: you know, and a modicum of humidity and intelligence that
Speaker 1: I actually probably could do it. I'm sure you could.
Speaker 1: I mean, so much of it I think is first
Speaker 1: of all, just knowing the ins and outs and as
Speaker 1: an actor for so long, like you're constantly working, like
Speaker 1: you know the ins and outs like the back of
Speaker 1: your hand. And then I think the rest is communicating
Speaker 1: like a human being to people and knowing you know.
Speaker 1: I've found also like with you know, actors who are
Speaker 1: just so weird, so weird and they're just full of
Speaker 1: like you. You have to understand that, like actors come
Speaker 1: at everything from a point of deficit, even though to
Speaker 1: the outside world it looks like they're just these complete, glamorous,
Speaker 1: amazingly you know, lucky, fortunate, beautiful people. But they have
Speaker 1: massive fistures in them, which is why they like acting,
Speaker 1: because they get to be something other than the faulted
Speaker 1: person that they feel themselves to be. UM. But I've
Speaker 1: noticed that they're really great directors. They understand, have compassion,
Speaker 1: don't really judge each of the different actors. They don't
Speaker 1: they don't direct in a sort of blanket. In fact,
Speaker 1: that the bad directors I've worked with, whether they were
Speaker 1: famous or not, are the ones who sort of like
Speaker 1: one size fits all direction. I supposed to really knowing
Speaker 1: what it is that is going to elicit what it
Speaker 1: is you need from that particular individual. UM. Acts are
Speaker 1: quite fragile. Um, what's it like when you have a
Speaker 1: bad director? I feel like on the show when I
Speaker 1: talked to actors and talking about the great experiences, But
Speaker 1: what do you do when you get on a job
Speaker 1: and you realize early on, like oh shit, you find
Speaker 1: an ally and you find an ally. I've actually never
Speaker 1: have never had a terrible director where I didn't also
Speaker 1: have an amazing ally who became a great friend and
Speaker 1: stayed and and and basically they would be I would go,
Speaker 1: you know, funny if it happened quite recently and there
Speaker 1: was another actor and I just out to him first
Speaker 1: of all, am I nuts? Or is this person like
Speaker 1: a nightmare? And they were like no, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: you're totally on the money. Yeah, I know, nightmare. I
Speaker 1: and I and I said what do I do? And
Speaker 1: they really they really helped me formulate a plan because
Speaker 1: you can't just dig your heels in and go, oh,
Speaker 1: well I hate this. You've got to get the job done.
Speaker 1: So it's like, well, how how am I going to
Speaker 1: do this when this is hard? And it's interesting when
Speaker 1: you form an alliance with someone, they help you get
Speaker 1: what you need, do what you need to do. Trick
Speaker 1: the director. That was always that was really fun. It
Speaker 1: was like tricked them into thinking that you're doing what
Speaker 1: they're telling you to do, and then do exactly what
Speaker 1: you want to do UM and also not react to
Speaker 1: UM because a lot of it is insecurity and posturing.
Speaker 1: I found with directors when directors aren't great. It's because
Speaker 1: they themselves are fearful and they think they have to
Speaker 1: throw their weight around in order to be heard or
Speaker 1: acknowledged as in quotes powerful. So yeah, I would always
Speaker 1: find a friend who would help me manipulate the situation
Speaker 1: to my advantage. And imagine when you have a great
Speaker 1: director in a great cast and crew, is it it's
Speaker 1: still very hard work. You know that hours are brutal
Speaker 1: and it's tough, But when that magic is happening, does
Speaker 1: it even feel like work? No, it's not. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's absolutely true. There have been you know, there have
Speaker 1: been those I would say three forty five in the
Speaker 1: morning is when when your body just wants to sort
Speaker 1: of shut down, and if you've particularly been doing sort
Speaker 1: of action stuff and you are exhausted. But there are
Speaker 1: these there are those moments when there is an amazing
Speaker 1: director that you and everybody else you sort of reconnect
Speaker 1: with how incredible it is to be there and how
Speaker 1: happy you are, and it's sort of like a shot
Speaker 1: in the arm. Um. Yeah, I've I've been really lucky.
Speaker 1: I don't haven't really had too many crap experiences. I've
Speaker 1: had more all great experiences. That's great. I'd love to
Speaker 1: talk about a few movies in particular. Um, Circle of
Speaker 1: Friends really kind of launched you as your first big,
Speaker 1: high profile movie, which is funny because it wasn't a
Speaker 1: very big high profile movie. But I think it just
Speaker 1: won the hearts of so many people and it just
Speaker 1: kind of became one of those small movies that broke
Speaker 1: out and really put put you on the map in
Speaker 1: a big way. What was that like for you? Oh?
Speaker 1: And it was nuts. I mean it was it was.
Speaker 1: It was amazing. Actually it wasn't. It wasn't nuts like
Speaker 1: it was nuts with good Will hunting because it was
Speaker 1: so funny to me, and so it was all so enjoyable,
Speaker 1: I guess because it was this small movie and like
Speaker 1: coming to Hollywood and you know, I I've gained some
Speaker 1: weight to play to play that role, and when I
Speaker 1: arrived in Hollywood, I was just sort of back to
Speaker 1: my normal my normal genes, my normal self. But the
Speaker 1: people in Hollywood thought that was like the craziest magic
Speaker 1: trick they'd ever seen. They were like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: look at you. And I was like, yeah, I'm just
Speaker 1: normal And it hadn't really been um, you know, my
Speaker 1: gaining the way for Circle of Friends, and it wasn't
Speaker 1: really that much. I put on what we call a
Speaker 1: couple of stone, which I think is yeah, no, actually
Speaker 1: I put it like thirty pounds, and my brother would
Speaker 1: wake me up in the He would make me up
Speaker 1: in the middle of the night and make me eat
Speaker 1: a Mars bar on a boat of pasta. That's how
Speaker 1: I get amazing. It was really fun. It was. That's
Speaker 1: pretty funny in the middle of the night when your
Speaker 1: metabolism is just soaks all that stuff in. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: I get Patter Karna, the director, Oh my god, he
Speaker 1: got so angry with me once when we were filming
Speaker 1: because like Chris o'donald was staying in like the fancy
Speaker 1: golf club. We were all in this brilliant, gorgeous, tumbling
Speaker 1: down sort of stone bed and breakfast, me and Saffron
Speaker 1: Barrows and Geraldy no Roar and um Colin Firth and
Speaker 1: and Chris was staying in like the fancy golf club.
Speaker 1: So we went there to kind of go and hang
Speaker 1: out in the spar and like use the gym, and
Speaker 1: Patter Connor saw me on a treadmill and he was like,
Speaker 1: get off the chadmill. Got to be fatuatedot Jesus, who's
Speaker 1: so annoyed with me? And I was like, oh, come on,
Speaker 1: also have to be healthy. We just want to be
Speaker 1: how this want to have fun. I don't know, everyone
Speaker 1: else is doing stuff. I want to do something. Um.
Speaker 1: But it was fun, It's all I remember at that time.
Speaker 1: It was fun making that film. It was fun coming out.
Speaker 1: It was fun people loving that film. It was just
Speaker 1: it was everything good. And that the fact that it
Speaker 1: has stayed the stalwart, the star placeholder for so many
Speaker 1: women and so many people. Um, that's that's that's that's
Speaker 1: pretty great. You know, it's pretty great that people have
Speaker 1: a big smile on their face when they talk about
Speaker 1: that movie. It's a lovely film. It's uh. I remember
Speaker 1: seeing it back then. I worked at a sort of
Speaker 1: the little alternative video store in college, and um, you know,
Speaker 1: any anything indie at that point, that was when I
Speaker 1: was really just drinking all that stuff in, like foreign films,
Speaker 1: indie films, and that was that was both, I guess.
Speaker 1: But um, yeah, seven was just a bit of a
Speaker 1: big year for you. Uh. And in fact, you're the
Speaker 1: only guest I've had I'm almost positive that has had
Speaker 1: your movies as other guest favorites Big Night, which is
Speaker 1: one of my favorite movies. I did a an episode
Speaker 1: with The Stranger Things Guys with David Harbor and Joe
Speaker 1: Kierry and Brett Gelman, and they collectively picked Big Big Night.
Speaker 1: And then the comedian Hari Conda Boloo. Yeah, his favorite
Speaker 1: movie is Gross point Blank. He's obsessed with that movie. Yeah.
Speaker 1: He's told we know each other over Twist. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: he's told me that. And I love these I love
Speaker 1: those films like I love Big Night and I love
Speaker 1: Gross point Blank hugely. And there are so many there's
Speaker 1: so many stories from both those films that are the
Speaker 1: other etched into they're etched into me. I used to um.
Speaker 1: We filmed in a in with Big Night before they
Speaker 1: turned the Chelsea Piers in New York into UM this
Speaker 1: crazy huge sports EMPOREUM. There were these um warehouses, which
Speaker 1: I think Law and Order which might already been shooting
Speaker 1: they would use some of them, but they were not.
Speaker 1: They were just spaces like there was no a c
Speaker 1: There was basically a couple of plugs, you know, you
Speaker 1: could get some electricity going. It was boiling hot and
Speaker 1: we shot Big Night in August which has you know,
Speaker 1: it's its own nightmarish. Um. Uh, what's the word. It's
Speaker 1: it's his own nightmarish temperature August and New York, and
Speaker 1: I remember Isabella Selini and I were wearing these satin
Speaker 1: dresses and we were sweating so profusely. You could see
Speaker 1: these huge sweat stains, and no one knew what to do.
Speaker 1: They were like, oh, you know, what can we do
Speaker 1: to get so sorry? Putting eyes cubs on the back
Speaker 1: of your night And then then she said, somebody give
Speaker 1: me a water bottle with a spray, and so they
Speaker 1: gave her like this water bottle with the spray, and
Speaker 1: she just like she sprayed down my whole dress, so
Speaker 1: it just was a shade darker and it was just damp.
Speaker 1: And then she did the same with her dress and
Speaker 1: then we shot up the scene. And you never know
Speaker 1: to meet someone like Isabella Rossellini, I mean, do you
Speaker 1: just freak out? Yeah, no, totally. I'll tell you what
Speaker 1: I did. I'll tell you exactly what I did. She
Speaker 1: would do her own hair and makeup, um, and I
Speaker 1: would get there. She'd get there at like fivet and
Speaker 1: I would get there um and I would just sit
Speaker 1: in her dressing room and I would sit on the
Speaker 1: floor and as she was putting on her makeup, she
Speaker 1: would just tell me stories. She would just tell me
Speaker 1: stories about Italy. She tell me stories about her mom.
Speaker 1: Did she tell me stories about her children? About her life?
Speaker 1: Like one of the most lyrical, beautiful, uh iconic people.
Speaker 1: And the fact that whatever I was twenty four, like,
Speaker 1: I knew, I knew it, and I think I said
Speaker 1: this t yesday, I said, I would sometimes like pinch
Speaker 1: my wrist as I was listening to going this is happening,
Speaker 1: This is happening, And I had no way of recording
Speaker 1: anything because obviously it was you know, it was the
Speaker 1: dark ages. You're in the moment, like the sort of
Speaker 1: the good old days. You know, it really was. She
Speaker 1: was She's pure she is pure magic. She really is.
Speaker 1: She is pure magic. She's everything that you would think
Speaker 1: that she is. She is all that, And I think
Speaker 1: and then a lot more. That's amazing, m with gross
Speaker 1: point blank. You'd probably get a kick out of that
Speaker 1: episode with Harry, by the way, because we just like
Speaker 1: gush and gush for any but one thing in particular.
Speaker 1: It strikes me about that movie is starting with the
Speaker 1: Martin comes back scene at the radio station, and then
Speaker 1: until things get kind of serious towards the end. I
Speaker 1: feel like every interaction that you and John Cusack had
Speaker 1: it felt like a dance, the way that you two
Speaker 1: were with each other, and it was it was a
Speaker 1: little unusual, it was slightly off kilter and how people
Speaker 1: communicate in life, Like it wasn't real like real life
Speaker 1: that you were watching. It was this sort of little, fun,
Speaker 1: fairy tale dance. And I'm just curious about that, like
Speaker 1: how much of that was improvised or how how that
Speaker 1: chemistry worked. Oh boy, Well, you know, chemistry with a
Speaker 1: with another actor is you know, it's not something you
Speaker 1: can make up. It's either it's sort of either there
Speaker 1: or not. And Johnny and I had a very very
Speaker 1: particular chemistry. I think that's why he cost me, because
Speaker 1: he knew that I could I could play in that
Speaker 1: slightly absurd place that he that he likes to play in.
Speaker 1: And then you had these guys who he grew up with,
Speaker 1: Steve Pink and DVD even Centers, both extraordinarily like gifted,
Speaker 1: brilliant minds, and they were writing the script and the
Speaker 1: script I remember even by the read through the script
Speaker 1: wasn't right that the script wasn't there, and Johnny went
Speaker 1: to Joe Roth and said, let us will you let
Speaker 1: us improvise? Will you let us improvise? Just let us
Speaker 1: let us let us do a couple of days and
Speaker 1: then watch the dailies and see if you think we
Speaker 1: can pull it off, because I don't think the script
Speaker 1: is working. And God bless her rock, he said, yeah,
Speaker 1: give it a try. So we would we would like
Speaker 1: have the scenes. Someone will be on the computer, would
Speaker 1: be in some whatever hotel room in Pasadena, and someone
Speaker 1: beyond the computer, and everyone will just be throwing out
Speaker 1: ideas and improvising, us kicking around what the shape of
Speaker 1: this scene would be like when he comes to the
Speaker 1: radio stage. And it was like, okay, yeah, the whole
Speaker 1: all of it. I mean so much of it was improvised.
Speaker 1: It's it's hard to like the the flying scene, the
Speaker 1: scene when he comes. Johnny was saying, we need somebody
Speaker 1: to show that they have this history. But it can't
Speaker 1: just be like exposition as to be something that shows
Speaker 1: that they've known each other. And I said, my dad
Speaker 1: used to do this airplane thing with me, like whenever
Speaker 1: he'd come back from a trip, we do this thing,
Speaker 1: and I guess it was a way of us sort
Speaker 1: of rebonding and I was like, let's do that, and
Speaker 1: He's like, okay, let's do that. So it was it
Speaker 1: was best idea wins and what's the funniest and so much.
Speaker 1: I'd love to. I'd love to. I don't think I
Speaker 1: haven't got an original script of gross point blank anymore,
Speaker 1: but I bet you dev or Steve or Johnny might do. Um.
Speaker 1: But i'd love to. I'd love to a and be it.
Speaker 1: I'd love to look at the script and then see
Speaker 1: what we actually did. I mean, it's the same with
Speaker 1: Google hunting. Actually the um you know. I think Matt
Speaker 1: and Bennett been extremely vocal about that, about the scenes
Speaker 1: that were improvised and the scenes that were written as
Speaker 1: and it's kind of interesting too. I always love I
Speaker 1: love seeing it because I know what we did. I
Speaker 1: know what we created on the day and um um.
Speaker 1: And that's that's not to say that obviously stuff that's
Speaker 1: written isn't beautiful and genius too, but sometimes says it's
Speaker 1: rare magic and what you improvise if you're all in lockstep,
Speaker 1: you know, with each other and really listening and really
Speaker 1: uh and really in the moment of telling that story,
Speaker 1: and it was such a fun story to tell and great,
Speaker 1: point blank yeah, high shake my hand. There's something about
Speaker 1: that wine that always gets me. It was just so
Speaker 1: funny because there's so much tension in that scene because
Speaker 1: you don't know, you don't fully know what happened yet,
Speaker 1: and it's high shake my hand, and then the kiss,
Speaker 1: and then the way you guys sort of circle each
Speaker 1: other through that movie. It's it's weird. It's like you
Speaker 1: take turns like Predator and Pray and like it's so fun.
Speaker 1: It's so I know, it is it is. It isn't
Speaker 1: readibly playful, and that is that is what I remember.
Speaker 1: I remember playing playing with John through the whole of
Speaker 1: that film, like it was just this amazing game. And
Speaker 1: you know, to be completely honest, I was absolutely head
Speaker 1: over heels in love with him. Oh my god, just
Speaker 1: gone gets completely, completely and utterly. And that that in
Speaker 1: itself has like a kinetic energy of when you're just you,
Speaker 1: you want to be around someone all the time, and
Speaker 1: you are around them all the time, and then you
Speaker 1: get to create and play and they're kind of as
Speaker 1: mad as you are. Um in terms of their creativity
Speaker 1: and it was just it was fun. I mean there
Speaker 1: were crashes and burns as well, as there always are
Speaker 1: with anything that you know, UM, kind of burns incandescently.
Speaker 1: It has to, it has to kind of explode at
Speaker 1: some point, but boy, it was. It was one of
Speaker 1: the greatest times of my life for sure. That's it's amazing. Um.
Speaker 1: You mentioned a little movie called Goodwill Hunting, just just
Speaker 1: a small, little now legendary iconic film. Um. I want
Speaker 1: to know some about Gus Van's aunt for sure, because
Speaker 1: he's one of my favorite directors. But I'm also curious
Speaker 1: just about I mean, that movie exploded and was nominated
Speaker 1: for everything you were nominated for an Oscar, and it's
Speaker 1: one of those movies now that forever it's going to
Speaker 1: be included in montage clips of like the great movies
Speaker 1: of Hollywood. Um, what's it like to be in one
Speaker 1: of those movies? It's extraordinary. I mean now having you know,
Speaker 1: had a whole career, which is quite hard to do
Speaker 1: to kind of keep it going as an actor too.
Speaker 1: I really I realized the significance of of being in
Speaker 1: a film that is as beloved and will carry on
Speaker 1: being beloved like a timeless movie. It's it's pretty rare
Speaker 1: that you can you can go through a whole wonderful
Speaker 1: career and not make a film like that. It was.
Speaker 1: I love the innocence. I love remembering the innocence of
Speaker 1: that film because you know, Matt and burn were just
Speaker 1: too incredibly intelligent, ambitious young writers, um and actors and
Speaker 1: they wanted to They actually, I would say that they
Speaker 1: were more writers, Like they wrote so that they could act.
Speaker 1: They wrote they could be in that movie. Um, because
Speaker 1: there was lots of talk of other actors, you know,
Speaker 1: getting lots of money to make the film, but it
Speaker 1: had to be you know, Brad Pitt and Leonardo DiCaprio,
Speaker 1: and they were like, now, you know, we want to
Speaker 1: do this, and they figured it out. It's hard to
Speaker 1: remember back then when they weren't the biggest deal in
Speaker 1: the world. But you know, you're you're all just you know,
Speaker 1: kids in your mid twenties being shepherded along. And Gus
Speaker 1: Manzana is so great with with young actors. Um. What's
Speaker 1: he like as a as a human? He's a he
Speaker 1: is a mysterious creature, Gus Um, he really is. He
Speaker 1: is incredibly warm and soulful and yeah, mysterious. There's something
Speaker 1: very sphinx like about Gus. But when he's directing you, um,
Speaker 1: it's so amazingly pure and he doesn't say very much,
Speaker 1: but what he says it's so pertinent to what you're
Speaker 1: doing and will be the thing that unlocks what is
Speaker 1: needed in that moment. So he's he's quiet, but absolutely intent.
Speaker 1: And I remember he's the only director I ever worked
Speaker 1: with who his face would be right by the camera.
Speaker 1: He was. He was never behind a monitor, or maybe
Speaker 1: it was just in the big scenes. I just always
Speaker 1: remember his face being right there. He was watching the
Speaker 1: scene as it was playing out, as opposed to watching
Speaker 1: it through a lens um And maybe it's because he
Speaker 1: trusted Johnny the scoffier, who was the the so sadly
Speaker 1: now deceased cinematographer who and he also was the cameraman.
Speaker 1: Maybe he trusted him and he was like, if I'm
Speaker 1: getting it emotionally from the side of the camera, I
Speaker 1: know Johnnyeve is getting it. Um. But there was a
Speaker 1: beautiful symbiosis on that film between all departments and it
Speaker 1: was magical, you know. The cool thing was so hilariously
Speaker 1: Marymake's was making they were making a Jackie Brown at
Speaker 1: the same time, and like everything was all about Jackie Brown,
Speaker 1: with Jack Brown this and Jack Brown that, It's all
Speaker 1: about Tarantina. It's all about this whole thing. So we
Speaker 1: were just left alone. There was nobody like hassling us.
Speaker 1: We were just made. We just went on and made
Speaker 1: this movie. Matt and Ben just worked so hard because
Speaker 1: they were you know, all hours writing, rewriting. You know,
Speaker 1: they were just in it. And we didn't have anyone
Speaker 1: breathing down our neck. So we just Gus got to
Speaker 1: make exactly the movie that he and Matt then wanted
Speaker 1: to make, um, because you know, the tigers were looking
Speaker 1: at other meat. Right. It's a it's a movie that
Speaker 1: you just invest so much in as a viewer emotionally, Um,
Speaker 1: not only just the stuff with with Will and his
Speaker 1: just you know, heartbreaking story and what he's going through,
Speaker 1: but then the love story aspect of it is I
Speaker 1: think just it's so brutal to watch those scenes still
Speaker 1: all these years later, when you're getting your heartbroken. Um,
Speaker 1: it's it's just a collective like a collective heartbreak for
Speaker 1: the audience to It's just so real and just awful.
Speaker 1: It's so it is. It's such a god. And by
Speaker 1: the way, that that scene we did that scene in
Speaker 1: the in the in the audition, and I don't think
Speaker 1: Matt and Ben would mind my saying that they were
Speaker 1: When I went to audition for this movie, it was
Speaker 1: at the Mercer Hotel in New York and I got there,
Speaker 1: aren't you know, ready on time and stoked, and poor
Speaker 1: Gus was like that the guys didn't show up and
Speaker 1: like I was stuck there for literally like an hour
Speaker 1: and Gus, it's so quiet and he's so not a
Speaker 1: small talker, and you know, it was so awkward, and
Speaker 1: I just I just didn't know what to do when
Speaker 1: I just sat there. And eventually they showed up and
Speaker 1: they were so apologetic, and you know, they were really
Speaker 1: on over. They were really hungover, and they you know,
Speaker 1: and we we launched into the um the fight scene,
Speaker 1: and um we got into it and then Matt stopped
Speaker 1: it and he was like, oh my god, I am
Speaker 1: so sorry, Like you are so prepared many and I
Speaker 1: am so not prepared. Can we just start again? And
Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, no, take your time, to take
Speaker 1: your time. But that scene, I believe that was written
Speaker 1: that never changed from from the time that he first
Speaker 1: wrote that that scene was intact um and it's so,
Speaker 1: it's so beautiful, it's a it's it's a massful scene,
Speaker 1: and it's a it's a really difficult scene, any scene
Speaker 1: that involves you starting in a place of real complicity
Speaker 1: and sweetness and ends up in a place of of
Speaker 1: abject misery. Um. I mean, it's catinet for an actor,
Speaker 1: but it's I didn't realize how hard it was at
Speaker 1: the time. I'm glad I didn't realize how hard that
Speaker 1: is to do when that's kind of a scene as
Speaker 1: you know it's coming and just sort of there is
Speaker 1: it just sort of always in the back of your head,
Speaker 1: like three more days until not with you know it now?
Speaker 1: But then then I was raring to go every second
Speaker 1: of the day. I would wake up ready. I was
Speaker 1: just like, what are we got? Oh? I ate it
Speaker 1: for breakfast. I loved it so hard. Now I do
Speaker 1: that thing of going, oh my god, three days until
Speaker 1: I got to do that, Okay, alright, what am I
Speaker 1: going to do? All Right? Do I know it well enough? Alright? Alright, alright,
Speaker 1: you know, but but then you're just like, I don't
Speaker 1: know this is like a dolphin quality when you're young
Speaker 1: and you're just passionate about what you do and it's
Speaker 1: just play. It's just play. It's all play. And that
Speaker 1: was the way I know. I know now how hard
Speaker 1: Matt and Byrne we're working, like sort of after we'd
Speaker 1: finished shooting, how hard they were working on the script
Speaker 1: that they were and so many hours and such extraordinary performances.
Speaker 1: But when we were on set, it was just playtime.
Speaker 1: You know, it's amazing, it's a magical movie. Well, I'm
Speaker 1: very glad you like it. Yeah, I'm I'm waiting. I
Speaker 1: can't believe no one has picked that movie yet as
Speaker 1: their movie crush. I'm sure it will happen at some point,
Speaker 1: which is kind of one of the fun things, like
Speaker 1: who is going to pick what movie? I bet it's interesting,
Speaker 1: it's quite it's it's say so much better person in
Speaker 1: the films that they love. It's my favorite, I mean,
Speaker 1: the conversations of my favorite part, but it's my second
Speaker 1: favorite part of doing this show is hearing from someone
Speaker 1: that I really love and admire and like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: what's the movie going to be? What's your movie going
Speaker 1: to be? And it's almost always something I love too,
Speaker 1: which is which is kind of fun. Um. But before
Speaker 1: we get into your movie, Tutsie, great choice. Uh, I
Speaker 1: want to talk a little bit about your podcast. I'm
Speaker 1: not sure how much you're allowed to talk about yet,
Speaker 1: but in the spirit of creative diversification, I have a
Speaker 1: podcast that my heart is producing and it's gonna be
Speaker 1: out soon. It is called Many Questions, and the title
Speaker 1: really reveals what it's about, and it is really as
Speaker 1: it goes, a shallow or as deep as the as
Speaker 1: the guest decides. Um, but I'm I love talking to people,
Speaker 1: and um, I'm interested in people in all different kinds
Speaker 1: of people. And I think this podcast, rather than just
Speaker 1: being conversations with famous friends, is a real examination of
Speaker 1: how how people move through the world, how they deal
Speaker 1: with it. Well, you had me on, so it's definitely
Speaker 1: not conversations with famous friends. Oh you you're my famous friend, Chuck,
Speaker 1: what are you kidding me? Well, it was a lot
Speaker 1: of fun and I can't wait to hear who else
Speaker 1: is going to be on And here's some of these conversations.
Speaker 1: I feel like we did have a really good conversation,
Speaker 1: and you're very good at talking to people. It's Uh.
Speaker 1: I was super excited about because I'm such a fan
Speaker 1: of yours and my wife is too, and we um
Speaker 1: after she was like, well, what was it like? And
Speaker 1: I was like, she was lovely and it was a
Speaker 1: great conversation from Jump. You know, you just have a
Speaker 1: very welcoming uh spirit, and I think that's uh, that's
Speaker 1: the key to a show like that. That's so nice.
Speaker 1: Thank you, I mean really coming from you as a
Speaker 1: kind of podcasting guru, Yes you are. UM, that's that's praise. Indeed. Well,
Speaker 1: I can't wait, uh, And we'll let everyone know when
Speaker 1: it officially punches and and have some other promotional stuff.
Speaker 1: Plan to get down but your movie crush, Let's get
Speaker 1: onto tutsie uh from two, the second highest grossing movie
Speaker 1: of Night two behind ET nine Oscar nominations. Jessica laying
Speaker 1: one Best Supporting Actress UM in competition against Terry gar Uh,
Speaker 1: who I just miss and loves so much. It's just
Speaker 1: so heartbreaking. Oh my god, she is. She is one
Speaker 1: of the greatest things to ever happened to the screen,
Speaker 1: Like no doubt. She really is one of my all
Speaker 1: time favorite actresses. She is, Um, she's so great in
Speaker 1: this movie. It's like peak Terry Gardness. It is, it
Speaker 1: is undilated Terry Garr and just just everything the neuros
Speaker 1: is what she what she built into, what she built
Speaker 1: into a character. That could have just been a device.
Speaker 1: We needed a device to get Michael to go an
Speaker 1: audition for this part, and it could have been it
Speaker 1: could have been something way more two dimensional. But she's God,
Speaker 1: she has pure magic. What's your history with this movie?
Speaker 1: Did you see when you were a kid? Yeah, my, my, my.
Speaker 1: Hisstory with this movie is that we were we were
Speaker 1: like where I grew up when my dad lived. My
Speaker 1: dad lived in the Caribbean growing up, and we had
Speaker 1: this this VCR and he had seven movies like that
Speaker 1: was it and like the sound of music played at
Speaker 1: the drive in for a solid fourteen weeks one year.
Speaker 1: So I saw that a lot. And then you know,
Speaker 1: he had some like really grim spy ship and then
Speaker 1: Turtsy was one of these movies. And I watched it
Speaker 1: so many times. I watched it, and I watched it
Speaker 1: and I watched it, and I I watched it so
Speaker 1: many times that I've I feel like I've had full
Speaker 1: blown relationships with every single character in that movie, Like
Speaker 1: I'll watch it and I'll be like, Oh, who am
Speaker 1: I going to be in love with today? It's Jessica Laig.
Speaker 1: Oh it's a jess collagn Watch who am I in
Speaker 1: love with today? Oh it's it's Sydney Pollock. I'm in
Speaker 1: love with Sydney Pollock today. To get helps, He's I
Speaker 1: think one of the more underrated directors. I think he.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's not like people don't love Sydney Pollock films,
Speaker 1: but I never hear his name mentioned in the conversation
Speaker 1: of great directors. Agree such a great actor between this
Speaker 1: and husbands and Wives. No, he's brilliant, and I think
Speaker 1: that people people know that. It's so interesting to me,
Speaker 1: like why he was also beloved in Hollywood like he was.
Speaker 1: He was so kind to me whenever whenever I met him.
Speaker 1: He here's the same thing that like Jimmy Barns has.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah I met him? Oh yeah, No, I um yeah,
Speaker 1: I loved him kind, funny again, exactly as you would imagine,
Speaker 1: like exactly as you would imagine like the someone that
Speaker 1: an icon like that to be. But anyway, I'm I've
Speaker 1: watched that movie an enormous amount. Probably I was inappropriately
Speaker 1: young when I watched it. Um, but it's awesome. It's awesome,
Speaker 1: and it's it's weird because I don't really love big
Speaker 1: commercial movies for the most part. Like I'm still pissed
Speaker 1: that Titanic beat good while hunting or Trust. I may
Speaker 1: never get over it. Yeah, Oh hold on, this is terrible.
Speaker 1: One second. Oh my god, I'm so sorry. I'm single
Speaker 1: parenting so hard. I'm so sorry. I might have to
Speaker 1: leave all that in. That's so great. I don't wanted
Speaker 1: to kill literally wanted to kill the delivery guy. Oh
Speaker 1: my god, he really Anyway, my one dog is the
Speaker 1: biggest barker at anything that moves outside as a shelty,
Speaker 1: So don't Kenny Kelly, Kelly, Kenny Kelly, Kenny down and Kimmy.
Speaker 1: All right, Key just come here, just relax, alright, it's wonderful. Alright,
Speaker 1: there's Bob. It's funny though that you mentioned seeing Tutsie
Speaker 1: too young. I was one of those kids too that
Speaker 1: UM was just obsessive about HBO when we got HBO
Speaker 1: when I was aver or whatever, and this was a
Speaker 1: heavy HBO rotational like I was. It's a very not
Speaker 1: an adult movie, and that there's anything too salacious. But
Speaker 1: it's just not like a movie for kids. It's it
Speaker 1: tackles sexism in the movie industry, and it's not a
Speaker 1: movie like a twelve year old should love. But I did.
Speaker 1: I loved it so much. I'm glad you loved it.
Speaker 1: I was right there loving it also. I mean, I
Speaker 1: I still, I still, you know, I watched it again
Speaker 1: the other day, Like I I watch it all the time.
Speaker 1: I have to say, it's kind of like a comfort movie,
Speaker 1: and I don't have too many of those. But it's
Speaker 1: so funny because I was thinking about it through the
Speaker 1: lens of like it's become problematic now, and the idea
Speaker 1: of like a dude going and stealing a job from
Speaker 1: a woman. Yeah, you couldn't make this movie today, bro, No,
Speaker 1: thank god, there's an evolution. But you can also appreciate
Speaker 1: things in the vacuum of that, of that moment um
Speaker 1: for all these other reasons. I mean, Bill Murray eating lemons,
Speaker 1: Bill Murray eating Celery, Like I still sometimes I think
Speaker 1: I wonder if that was just like someone was like, hey, Bill,
Speaker 1: you know, what are you gonna do in this? He
Speaker 1: was like, I'm just gonna eat a lemon. I'll just
Speaker 1: eat a lemon. I'm just gonna eat lemons for this
Speaker 1: one Dustin and that party scene when he's sitting there
Speaker 1: just sort of holding court the line I wish I
Speaker 1: had a theater that was only open when it rained,
Speaker 1: and then later everyone's gone, but he's still in that
Speaker 1: same spot, like he hasn't moved at the island. I
Speaker 1: I love him, and I love it when when doesn't.
Speaker 1: When doesn't wakes him up, when he's on his first
Speaker 1: morning at work and Bill Murray rolls over and he goes, Mom, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think he was uncredited. I think he insisted on
Speaker 1: being uncredited in this movie. If I'm not mistaken. I
Speaker 1: remember hearing I'm meant to look it up, but I
Speaker 1: remember hearing a story about that, like he's not unlisted
Speaker 1: on the poster or anything. I think he very much
Speaker 1: did it a sort of a just a fun favor.
Speaker 1: It feels like it was all improvised and that he
Speaker 1: just showed up on set one day and they were like, oh,
Speaker 1: come on, just be in the scene. You have Now
Speaker 1: it's an impact on the movie. He's not in very
Speaker 1: much of it if you look at actually like minutes
Speaker 1: screen time, minutes, but it's Bill Murray. He's just so funny.
Speaker 1: He wouldn't. Bill Murray says, I just don't want to
Speaker 1: sit around pretending I'm not home because you're not that
Speaker 1: kind of girl. And he's so he's really annoyed about it.
Speaker 1: He's like, no, I'm going, you know, I'm I'm going
Speaker 1: to my girlfriend's house. Like he was just their whole
Speaker 1: like girlfriend band said. Like when Dustin Hoffman when Michael's
Speaker 1: getting ready for in quotes his date with Julie, He's
Speaker 1: like just going over to run lines and they're sitting
Speaker 1: around checking out his outfits, like I love Bill Murray
Speaker 1: as the girlfriend UM and Michael. I mean, he's like,
Speaker 1: you know, I know this may sound silly, but I just,
Speaker 1: you know, I just I just want to look pretty
Speaker 1: for her. Yeah. It's such a great line. And I
Speaker 1: loved Uman so much. It was so disappointing when he
Speaker 1: was kind of out at as doing some inappropriate things. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but this, this this dovetails right into exactly what we
Speaker 1: were just saying about. You know, problematic stuff in movies
Speaker 1: that we love that can go that is unutterably wrong
Speaker 1: and awful, And and you and I can also look
Speaker 1: back at and and be in love with Jessica Lang
Speaker 1: in this movie, and and Terry gar and Bill Murray.
Speaker 1: It's so funny. It's because like actors want people in
Speaker 1: two When I was watching movies age twelve, they were,
Speaker 1: they were they were the characters in the movie. So
Speaker 1: I feel like I have a I have a relationship
Speaker 1: with Michael and with Julie, And I know it was
Speaker 1: so much fun watching at the end. And I've seen
Speaker 1: this movie so many times, but it had been a
Speaker 1: long time, and it really struck me how many of
Speaker 1: these um, how much of the humor I got as
Speaker 1: an adult that I must have fallen over my head
Speaker 1: as a kid. And and it is a movie that
Speaker 1: actually does say some very real things about sexism. It's
Speaker 1: it's it tackles in a sort of very eighties way,
Speaker 1: I guess, but um, yeah, it is for a movie
Speaker 1: this mainstream, I think, to sort of tackle sexism head
Speaker 1: on in a mainstream Number two gross in comedy was
Speaker 1: was unusual for the time. I think. I suppose it's
Speaker 1: gutting that it had to be a man playing a
Speaker 1: woman to do it. You know, when Dorothy Swatch, the
Speaker 1: director over the head. You want some gross caricature of
Speaker 1: a woman's show on you you much up ship head,
Speaker 1: you know, and she kind of punches him. Um, it's
Speaker 1: what gets her the role and um it, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I find it. I find it interesting today. I carry
Speaker 1: it with me because I loved it so much when
Speaker 1: I was little, in lieu of not really having anything
Speaker 1: else to watch. Um, and I love it now because
Speaker 1: it brings up questions that I like to ask, which is,
Speaker 1: you know, how much how much have we changed? How
Speaker 1: much has changed? I think it's up to the individual
Speaker 1: to decide whether they can separate the art from the artist.
Speaker 1: The last detail The King of Comedy and tot and
Speaker 1: my three favorite films. And I did tell the Narrow
Speaker 1: that The King of Comedy and like he kind of
Speaker 1: looked me kind of blackly, and he was like, really,
Speaker 1: really that's your favorite And I was like, oh christ yeah,
Speaker 1: oh now we've got to be at a scene together, okay, boy, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think so. I think we should talk a little
Speaker 1: about the rest of the cast, because it's just a
Speaker 1: murderers row um, Dabney Coleman. Dabney Coleman. I mean, he's
Speaker 1: literally a walking epaulet. He's just a revolting Safari suit
Speaker 1: of a dude. I hate him so hard in this movie,
Speaker 1: and he's so genius obviously, but I know, I want
Speaker 1: to know what he's like because between this and Nine
Speaker 1: to five he really cornered the market on on eighties. Uh.
Speaker 1: Just bad dude, that's guy. Yeah, those bad dudes. There's
Speaker 1: something about Yeah. It's the way that he it is
Speaker 1: just that extraordinary dismissiveness that he has and just the
Speaker 1: the endless kind of patting Jessica Lang on the bottom
Speaker 1: as she's getting into cars and just you know, his
Speaker 1: his it's it's it's so it's so great, like his
Speaker 1: his come upance, I mean, such as it is is
Speaker 1: so great. His ridiculous vindication at the end in the
Speaker 1: Samath when you know, Michael Dorsey reveals that he's not
Speaker 1: Dorothy but her brother, and he's like, I knew there
Speaker 1: was something about her because she didn't like him. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Every moment where he goes off book, Oh yeah, it's
Speaker 1: just so brilliant because the second it happens, it cuts
Speaker 1: to the control room and everyone's just like, oh God,
Speaker 1: here we go. It's like the one thing you can't
Speaker 1: do on its soap b Opara's improvised. I would think
Speaker 1: like it's all about like just nailing those lines as
Speaker 1: fast as possible because they shoot so much in a day. Um,
Speaker 1: and every time he just starts to go off, it's
Speaker 1: just so wonderful, the greatest, and I do it. I
Speaker 1: actually do it on every set I think I've ever
Speaker 1: been on. When um, I hear the direct to say, uh,
Speaker 1: a camera, can you pull back? Um? And then I
Speaker 1: go how far? How do you feel about Cleveland? Um?
Speaker 1: It's it's that's one of my that's really one of
Speaker 1: my favorite maybe my favorite lenon the movie ever. H
Speaker 1: one of my favorite moments. And this is a Terry
Speaker 1: Gar moment that is so subtle. And I love these
Speaker 1: moments and movies where an actor does this little choice
Speaker 1: that is so easy to overlook. And I now you
Speaker 1: probably recognize this part was right after they have sex.
Speaker 1: She's in bed, covered up with the s looks to
Speaker 1: she says sex changes things and her part well, but
Speaker 1: then she also looks kind of she just looks kind
Speaker 1: of like disappointed. She doesn't look I was like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's all still the same. It's so funny. It's just
Speaker 1: a great little choice. She's she's a master like she is,
Speaker 1: she is a master. And it is stuff like that
Speaker 1: that is the that is what differentiates a good actor
Speaker 1: from a genius actor. It's stuff like that. It's it is,
Speaker 1: it's it's it's that whole incredibly fast paced monologue when
Speaker 1: she's like, you know, are you gonna call me tomorrow?
Speaker 1: Because you know, if you're not going to call me,
Speaker 1: I just like you to tell me now so I
Speaker 1: can have my pain now, because if you don't call
Speaker 1: me tomorrow, then I'm been. I have you not calling
Speaker 1: me and I'm gonna have my pain. So I want
Speaker 1: to have a pain now. Yeah, it's she's, She's, She's heaven.
Speaker 1: There's I don't know, there's a lot of there's a
Speaker 1: there's a lot of discovery. And while he's not ostensibly funny,
Speaker 1: what I like about about Michael Dorsey is that he's
Speaker 1: not funny. He isn't. He's an arrogant, self regarding actor
Speaker 1: and every and doesn't often does allow everybody around him
Speaker 1: to be funny. Um, but I love the I love
Speaker 1: the moments. What's that line when he says, um, I
Speaker 1: think Dorothy is smarter than I am, Like, I love
Speaker 1: I love the sort of discovery of his humanity that
Speaker 1: this woman, this created woman, is teaching him. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: the second part of that line, there's a lot to unpack.
Speaker 1: He says, I just wish he was prettier. I just
Speaker 1: wish she was prettier. I mean, that's there's a lot
Speaker 1: going on in that, you know, I mean, especially well,
Speaker 1: do you know what? There's also that other line, and
Speaker 1: I think it's where I've really because I think in
Speaker 1: a completely different way. This is why it was so
Speaker 1: hard for me when they were both nominated, because I
Speaker 1: think Jessica Lang is, it's so hard to be that
Speaker 1: beautiful and be as extraordinarily gifted as she is. By
Speaker 1: the way, there are there are lots of act is
Speaker 1: you're incredibly beautiful, and you actually think they're better actresses
Speaker 1: than they are because you're so big girl, by how
Speaker 1: beautiful they are. And then there's a few who you know,
Speaker 1: like a Margot Robbie, they are absolutely you can't look
Speaker 1: away stunning, and they are also profoundly gifted actresses. But
Speaker 1: when Jessica Lang says, you know, um, don't you find
Speaker 1: it being hard? Don't you find it hard being a
Speaker 1: woman in the eighties, and there's something so there's something
Speaker 1: so sad and remote, and she she so could have
Speaker 1: just been setting up, you know, some gag for Dustin
Speaker 1: Hoffman because he's not a woman. But there it touches
Speaker 1: me so deeply, her profound sadness. You know, this woman
Speaker 1: who drinks too much, you know, a single mother who
Speaker 1: understands that when she gets old, there's not going to
Speaker 1: be a whole lot left for her. And she's dabbed.
Speaker 1: The Dabney Colbyn's of the world are always sort of
Speaker 1: going to be the guys that were like it simply sad. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that this is sort of her lot in life. She's
Speaker 1: in this great apartment. I mean, it's very funny. It's
Speaker 1: very eighties when you look at that apartment now, but
Speaker 1: you know, this big New York apartment, and she seems
Speaker 1: so resigned to yeah, like you're saying, I have to
Speaker 1: work for this dick. But then when you see her
Speaker 1: laughing on set, like and I'm sure it looked like
Speaker 1: it sure looked real to me when Michael's doing that
Speaker 1: whole bit about given every nurse a cattle, proud to
Speaker 1: dr bruser in the Bazilis and she starts she just
Speaker 1: Colone starts laughing and she's carrying her now and she's
Speaker 1: really laughing, and it's just it's magical because you see
Speaker 1: who this, you see who that woman. Julie is like
Speaker 1: all the fun, all of this, And I love that
Speaker 1: with characters where you don't have to have a whole
Speaker 1: scene about this whole other world that they live in,
Speaker 1: but you just pull back the curtain long enough to
Speaker 1: see that it's in there, and also trusting that people
Speaker 1: will catch that and that you don't have to belabor
Speaker 1: at that point, Like that is mastery as well. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think also played the Charles Darning stuff, um, who's
Speaker 1: just so great and everything. Yeah, I think they played
Speaker 1: that just right, Like they could have gone so further
Speaker 1: over the top slapstick with you know, him getting physical
Speaker 1: with her or with him. I guess it's beefy hand
Speaker 1: like when he get when he says this and it
Speaker 1: just goes and they're both just back too far. Like
Speaker 1: it's that those kind of physical gags like that stuff.
Speaker 1: It's brilliant, but just just enough of it though, you know,
Speaker 1: like these little moments, but it wasn't he could have
Speaker 1: gone in the wrong direction. I think Sidney Pollock deserves
Speaker 1: a lot of credit for that. Um. One of my
Speaker 1: other favorite scenes is the Russian tea room scene. I
Speaker 1: couldn't agree with him, like it's my I'm I'm looking
Speaker 1: for that, I'm looking for the Russian tea room. Well
Speaker 1: this is the Russian tea room. Oh I missed you.
Speaker 1: Oh Michael, Michael, I told you to get out, and
Speaker 1: his voice and it's Michael, It's Michael. Jesus, Michael told
Speaker 1: you to sepet He plays annoyed and angry better than
Speaker 1: like anyone in the business, so brand when he's just
Speaker 1: like picking lint off his shoulder and putting Michael putting
Speaker 1: his arm right, and when this guy's come out to
Speaker 1: the table and I'm like, oh my god, it's just great.
Speaker 1: But it's also so agency at Brilliant Sydney Public. Is
Speaker 1: when Michael is then desperate to get out, and that
Speaker 1: whole scene where he's like, you've got to get me out,
Speaker 1: and he was like, I can't get you around. You're
Speaker 1: making a lot of money. Like it's like the whole
Speaker 1: idea is like I can't get you out, Like it's
Speaker 1: I love how how how quickly he seamlessly he's like, oh,
Speaker 1: this is a hit, this is making shiploads of money. Guy,
Speaker 1: I'm in yeah, it's it's actually one of the better
Speaker 1: movies about the industry. And you don't want to think
Speaker 1: of it that way. You think of TUTSI is like
Speaker 1: the movie about Dustin Hoffman playing a woman. You don't
Speaker 1: put it up there with like The Player or Living
Speaker 1: in Oblivion and all these movies about making movies. But
Speaker 1: it's really one of the better movies I think about
Speaker 1: the industry. Like that's definitely like having grown up with
Speaker 1: this film, I now I place it firmly in the
Speaker 1: in the cannon of movies that you just that you
Speaker 1: just talked about. I mean, it's about acting in a
Speaker 1: lot of ways. It's it's so much about acting. I
Speaker 1: mean those scenes at the beginning, I watched those a
Speaker 1: lot now, you know over under the credits when he's
Speaker 1: when he's directing the whatever the acting classes that he gives.
Speaker 1: I love those scenes. I love watching him like because
Speaker 1: because I think he's just I think that's just him.
Speaker 1: I don't think that's not him being Michael Dorsey. I
Speaker 1: think that's just him Dustin Hoffman looking at a scene
Speaker 1: and like talking about and they just shot it theater crowd. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's just such as he's such asked the tomorrow. No
Speaker 1: one will work with you, no one will work with you.
Speaker 1: It was like a tomato doesn't have logic, it can't
Speaker 1: move that some public screaming. Then he's like, that's what
Speaker 1: I said, if it doesn't have legs, and how can
Speaker 1: he sit down? He's so exasperated. Those scenes that, I mean,
Speaker 1: they're scenes together just some of the best stuff in
Speaker 1: the whole movie. And that's a movie like with Bill Murray,
Speaker 1: like doing his thing too. Everything about it is great
Speaker 1: that I think how it all spins together in that
Speaker 1: third act, it's just like, ah, it just it gains
Speaker 1: all this momentum in that third act because he has
Speaker 1: to deal with Sandy, he has to deal with Jessica Lang,
Speaker 1: he has to deal with Jessica Lang's dad, he has
Speaker 1: to like all of these things kind of come crashing
Speaker 1: down all at once. It's it's sort of like the
Speaker 1: best farce. It's such a That's why it's just such
Speaker 1: a brilliantly written film because like you know, you you look,
Speaker 1: it's so lean and the structure is just exactly as
Speaker 1: you it is written in the books, and in a
Speaker 1: way for me, that's what even though they're not typically
Speaker 1: films that I love that you could read Save the
Speaker 1: Cat and he would understand the structure of Tutsie. But
Speaker 1: what what makes it so genius is the fact that
Speaker 1: it does it. Here to this like apparent the structure
Speaker 1: that you apparently can't ever move away from, and it
Speaker 1: does it so perfectly, and that by that third act
Speaker 1: where you have all of these things, and it's so
Speaker 1: difficult to end that film, and I got to tell you,
Speaker 1: like I I'm I feel hopeful, I feel glad, I
Speaker 1: feel that scene at the end in the street is
Speaker 1: totally right. Yeah, I mean I would have maybe liked
Speaker 1: a little a little bit long. I would have liked
Speaker 1: to hear her say a little bit more, but maybe
Speaker 1: by that point you you get it. And when she
Speaker 1: says I'm Mr Dorothy, you really feel that that's really
Speaker 1: everything she like. She finally had a friend, she had
Speaker 1: a mother, she had a confidante, and that's gone from her.
Speaker 1: And when he says, she's right here and I believe him.
Speaker 1: It's a complicated scene to play, and it's a movie
Speaker 1: I think could have ended a number of different ways
Speaker 1: and still worked. Um, and it makes me want to
Speaker 1: tell me you're tell me you're all ending. Well. I
Speaker 1: mean she doesn't smile and walk down the street with him.
Speaker 1: She she shuns him for for tricking. I mean, of
Speaker 1: course you came in the Hollywood movie like that. That's
Speaker 1: not I was going to say, that's like, that's like
Speaker 1: the you know, I'm trying to think that's the gust
Speaker 1: friend sound version. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I mean certainly it
Speaker 1: could as far as Hollywood and to go this is
Speaker 1: sort of it. It could have ended with him loving
Speaker 1: Sandy although he wasn't right. They weren't right for each other,
Speaker 1: as much as I hate to say it, No, no,
Speaker 1: not at all. But I don't know if he's right
Speaker 1: for Jessica Lange either. Now he's totally selfish. I mean,
Speaker 1: he's I don't think he deserves which is why I'm
Speaker 1: glad that he doesn't like UNI actually get her like
Speaker 1: I always like to think that they would become friends
Speaker 1: and then she would learn I think what I always
Speaker 1: imagined was they would become friends and then she would
Speaker 1: learn that you could actually, you know, have a good
Speaker 1: relationship with a man, and then she would go and
Speaker 1: marry like a grown up. Neither Dabney Coleman or him No,
Speaker 1: neither of those. It dis Yeah, I think that's a
Speaker 1: good call. Uh, And you know you don't. They very
Speaker 1: subtly sort of indicate that he and saying they work
Speaker 1: out okay because her name is listed on the play bill,
Speaker 1: on the sign or whatever, so they don't need to
Speaker 1: like tie that up with the prettiest bow. I think
Speaker 1: I love the way they did that. They're like, clearly
Speaker 1: they're going to be pals because they're acting together and
Speaker 1: their friends play exactly and that that was the whole
Speaker 1: point of like making that money in the first place,
Speaker 1: was just to put on the play so they could
Speaker 1: they could be actors, you know, which is and un
Speaker 1: actors do actors do get over stuff? Yeah? I think
Speaker 1: you do. You have to. I think the last thing
Speaker 1: I want to talk about maybe is just that the
Speaker 1: reveal scene. It's um it felt the other night when
Speaker 1: we were watching it, it felt almost like a sports movie.
Speaker 1: How it was the tension and it was culminating in
Speaker 1: this big thing because they had to go live. It
Speaker 1: was such a great setup, you know that you know
Speaker 1: what's going to go down. It almost felt like the
Speaker 1: ending of the Karate Kid Are Rocky or something. Yeah, totally.
Speaker 1: And also when that that amazing moment where Michael stumbles
Speaker 1: and he doesn't have it and you cut to the
Speaker 1: booth and they're like that everyone is just like on
Speaker 1: the edge of the scene and he just he doesn't
Speaker 1: know what the story of what is going to go,
Speaker 1: and then this collective kind of sigh when he carries on,
Speaker 1: even though it's literally like the nuclear codes like stopped
Speaker 1: for a minute and then they carried on. I mean
Speaker 1: when he reveals so, I mean, I've seen that movie
Speaker 1: so many times, and Emily and I watched it the
Speaker 1: other night and where it was uproarious laughter in our
Speaker 1: bedroom watching that when he finally rips it off and
Speaker 1: the in everyone's expression, it was just I knew it
Speaker 1: was coming. I've seen it a dozen times and we
Speaker 1: were dying. We were rolling on the floor laughing. It
Speaker 1: was so great and so funny. Well, I'll be I know,
Speaker 1: it's it's you know what it was found I found
Speaker 1: really weird and I've never I've never made peace with
Speaker 1: it with it is when Jessica n goes over to
Speaker 1: him and she punches him in the stomach should have
Speaker 1: been a slap, right, it's super weird. She should have
Speaker 1: fucking decked him, Like, same weird. I don't get it.
Speaker 1: It's like, well, I don't understand that choice. I've never
Speaker 1: understood that choice, and I still don't understand it. No,
Speaker 1: it's so funny that you said that, because we said
Speaker 1: the exact same thing, and in fact, when she came
Speaker 1: up to him, I said, here comes to the slap,
Speaker 1: because yeah, like punching him and like the full steeth
Speaker 1: coming out of his mouth like I would have taken.
Speaker 1: I would have taken any version that wasn't stuffing him
Speaker 1: in the gun. It's just weird. Emily thought it might
Speaker 1: have been in the balls. I was like, no, I
Speaker 1: think it was a stomach punch. Yeah, it was definitely.
Speaker 1: Oh that's good. I never thought about that. I've always
Speaker 1: thought it was the stomach punch. I think it is.
Speaker 1: I think kneeing him in the balls could have been
Speaker 1: an acceptable number two to punching him. She really should
Speaker 1: have punched him. That's actually the only thing that I
Speaker 1: would change about that whole movie. Yeah, that was the
Speaker 1: only sort of weird choice. I wonder what the what
Speaker 1: the provenance is of that. I don't know. I don't
Speaker 1: have any idea. Um, great movie. I mean I feel
Speaker 1: like we covered it. How do you feel, Oh yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm it's so funny and talking about it, I just
Speaker 1: I'm wondering how many people are going to be like,
Speaker 1: it's a really sexist movie. I don't think you should
Speaker 1: be like in that movie Mini Driver, God, you're a
Speaker 1: bad feminist, bad feminist. No, you're a great feminist. And
Speaker 1: it's a great movie. And if you look at it
Speaker 1: in the lens of nineteen two, they were actually saying
Speaker 1: a lot about feminism, and I think he was trying.
Speaker 1: I think it was really trying to to to do something.
Speaker 1: I just don't think that we we just weren't there yet.
Speaker 1: We just have been the best nineteen eight two could do. Yeah, man,
Speaker 1: look if if et s here are that not that
Speaker 1: e t isn't a great movie. But like if that's
Speaker 1: the fair that people are really like looking at God, right,
Speaker 1: then that was some cinema. Very jay compared to The
Speaker 1: Alien and the Basket Across the Moon. Yeah, such a
Speaker 1: good movie. I was so glad to get to watch
Speaker 1: it again. And I appreciate you coming on. It's very
Speaker 1: kind of you to spend so much time. Thank you
Speaker 1: very much. I apologized for my booking talk, but I
Speaker 1: love it. We're going to leave some of that in.
Speaker 1: I think everyone needs to hear Bob's roar. All right,
Speaker 1: thanks a lot, alright, Chuck. Movie Crash is produced and
Speaker 1: written by Charles Bryant and Meel Brown, edited and engineered
Speaker 1: by Seth Nicholas Johnson, and scored by Noel Brown here
Speaker 1: in our home studio at Pontstey Market, Atlanta, Georgia. For
Speaker 1: i Heeart Radio. For more podcasts for my Heart Radio,
Speaker 1: visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you
Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows,