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Speaker 1: This is the me Eater podcast coming at you shirtless, severely,

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Speaker 1: bug bitten, and in my case, underwear listening podcast. You

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Speaker 1: can't predict anything. Brought to you by first Light. When

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Speaker 1: I'm hunting, I need gear that won't quit. First Light builds,

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Speaker 1: no compromise, gear that keeps me in the field longer,

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Speaker 1: no shortcuts, just gear that works. Check it out at

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Speaker 1: first light dot com. That's f I R S T

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Speaker 1: L I T E dot com. All right, man, We're

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Speaker 1: joined by ed O Keith, who's got a new book,

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Speaker 1: The Loves of Teddy Roosevelt. We're gonna get into Teddy

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Speaker 1: as a ladies man and a mama's boy.

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Speaker 2: God, that would have been a much better subtitle, Ladies Man,

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Speaker 2: Mama's Boy, instant bestseller.

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Speaker 1: No, the Loves of the Loves of Theodore Roosevelt, the

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Speaker 1: women who created a president. And so everybody knows Theodore

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Speaker 1: Roosevelt as the swash buckling you know, adventurer, which is

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Speaker 1: a little weird, like like you know, he went all

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Speaker 1: over hunting hundred in Africa, hunting across the West, became

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Speaker 1: a rancher, wrote a book about ranching. Like people know

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Speaker 1: him as this sort of like the most macho of presidents,

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Speaker 1: the manly mannist of presidents. Right, you know you think

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Speaker 1: of like you think of like President Trump growing up.

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Speaker 1: You know, he's got like gold stuff everywhere, and this

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Speaker 1: guy was kind of comfortable in a cabin at times.

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Speaker 1: But what you lose sight of. There's a couple things

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Speaker 1: you lose sight of with Roosevelt. One extraordinarily wealthy, Like

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Speaker 1: in today's world, him as an outdoorsman would be like

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Speaker 1: a rich kid that like goes to boarding school and

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Speaker 1: gets into Knowles, gets reel into like Knowles, and like

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Speaker 1: spends his summers in Alaska. Yep, do you know what

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Speaker 1: I mean That that's like the contempt. And then you know,

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Speaker 1: eventually he's like a fishing guide or something. But he

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Speaker 1: didn't really come off through like redneck stuff.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, he doesn't depend on the guiding income. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 3: just a lifestyle.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And like that would have been Roosevelt, but he

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Speaker 1: did it so well. And because of his conservation record,

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Speaker 1: he's sort of held as this like rugged individualist, but

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Speaker 1: he has this very confusing background. And like one of

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Speaker 1: the things that we're going to talk about is this

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Speaker 1: is a guy not shaped by grizzled old hunting and

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Speaker 1: fishing uncles that live out in a shack somewhere. He's

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Speaker 1: like shaped by women in his life and like huge

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Speaker 1: impactful relationships with his mother. So we're gonna dive into

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Speaker 1: that at ed O'Keefe. Edward O'Keefe, if you want to

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Speaker 1: be official, we're the first thing we're gonna talk about.

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Speaker 1: Soon as I do his introes, we're gonna talk about this.

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Speaker 1: So Edward O'Keefe is the CEO of the Theodore Roosevelt

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Speaker 1: Presidential Library Foundation, So we're gonna kick off. I talk

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Speaker 1: about that because this is a big deal over in

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Speaker 1: North Dakota, the Presidential Library. Okeith recently previously spent two

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Speaker 1: decades in broadcasting digital media at ABC News, CNN, and

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Speaker 1: now This, during which time he received a Primetime Emmy

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Speaker 1: Award for his work with Anthony Bourdain to Webby Awards.

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Speaker 1: The Edward R. Murrow Award was that documentary about him No,

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Speaker 1: the movie good Night and Good Luck, Good Luck. George

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Speaker 1: Clooney had a play and a George Foster Peabody Award

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Speaker 1: for ABC's coverage of nine to eleven. So all that said,

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Speaker 1: if he bombs today on the show, it's not that

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Speaker 1: he didn't have the training in digital media to pull

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Speaker 1: off a podcast appearance. He should kill A former fellow

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Speaker 1: at the Harvard Kennedy School, he graduated with honors from

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Speaker 1: Georgetown University. All from all out of North.

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Speaker 2: Dakota, North Dakota, it's right, born and raised.

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Speaker 1: Born and raised in North Dakota, went on to do

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Speaker 1: all that. So currently lives in New York with his wife, daughter,

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Speaker 1: and son. All Right, tell us about the library. Well,

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Speaker 1: before we get into the book, let's talk about the libary.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, great, I mean, the Theodore Roosevelt Presidential Library

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Speaker 2: opens on July fourth, twenty twenty six, two hundred and

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Speaker 2: fiftieth anniversary of America. Was that just like a coincidence,

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Speaker 2: you know, I mean I started in this job October

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Speaker 2: twenty nineteen, and but really yeah, yeah, And so it's

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Speaker 2: been a six year effort. We've raised almost four hundred

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Speaker 2: million dollars to get this baby constructed. Oh man, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's a it's gonna it's ninety three acres. It celebrates

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Speaker 2: Theodore Roosevelt's conservation legacy. So looking you know, he looked

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Speaker 2: one hundred years into the future, and conservation wasn't even

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Speaker 2: a concept, right, I mean it was an academic concept,

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Speaker 2: but no politician had paid attention. When tr proposed his

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Speaker 2: first conservation bill, the Speaker of the House literally said,

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Speaker 2: there will not be one dime for scenery. That was

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Speaker 2: that was the attitude. I'm sorry I heard that was

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Speaker 2: the response right, because I seen her. He was like,

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Speaker 2: what are you talking to?

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Speaker 1: Real? I feel like I have heard that.

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Speaker 2: That's one hundred per century. The Speaker of the House

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Speaker 2: when he proposed his conservation Mills said no way. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I didn't well, there wasn't a counter argument. It was

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Speaker 2: just that doesn't make any sense. What are you talking about? So,

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Speaker 2: I mean this, when he's talking about the creation of

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Speaker 2: the US Forest Service, when he's talking about national doubling

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Speaker 2: the park's size, when he's putting two hundred and thirty

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Speaker 2: four million acres of land into the public trust, he

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Speaker 2: is not just ahead of his time, he's light years

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Speaker 2: ahead of his time. He's and so what we want

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Speaker 2: to do at the TR Library is, you know, work

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Speaker 2: with the local ranchers to graze the land. On the

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Speaker 2: ninety three acres. We have a walkable roof where you

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Speaker 2: can go thirty eight feet tall and look out at

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Speaker 2: the sixty five million years of geologic history and the

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Speaker 2: bad lands, and it's filled four hundred thousand native plants,

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Speaker 2: all from yeah, all from four miles around. We've been

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Speaker 2: working on it for years, uh, you know, working with

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Speaker 2: North Dakota State University to to bring those plants back,

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Speaker 2: bring bring the pollinators, bring the bees, bring the birds

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Speaker 2: back to this area, you know. And so you know,

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Speaker 2: we want families to come and to hike and to

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Speaker 2: bike and to horseback ride to the to the Presidential Library.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's really a place where we want kids

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Speaker 2: to drag their parents, I mean, to get out in

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Speaker 2: nature and do what tr did you know, to to

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Speaker 2: find nature as your classroom, to be together as a family,

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Speaker 2: to you know, celebrate the wondrous beauty of this national park,

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Speaker 2: Theodore Roosevelt National Park, the only one named for a person,

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Speaker 2: let alone a president. You know, everyone else's names for

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Speaker 2: the library of the park. Stone's throw, I mean you could.

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Speaker 2: So there's two. There's a west wing and now the

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Speaker 2: only east wing. That for We thought that was going

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Speaker 2: to be a clever ode, but the only one now.

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Speaker 2: And it's a perfectly framed view of Theodore Roosevelt National Park,

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Speaker 2: so you can literally you can see the park from

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Speaker 2: US and US from the park seventy four thousand acres

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Speaker 2: of backyard to go.

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Speaker 1: Explore does that so it borders the park?

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Speaker 2: It does. It gets the largest private philanthropic project adjacent

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Speaker 2: to a National park in history. The previous was Saint

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Speaker 2: Louis arch So we're it's a big effort. You know,

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Speaker 2: it's North Dakota is not a huge state. We've got

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Speaker 2: people from all over the nation, all over the world

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Speaker 2: who've contributed. Because tr I like to say he's like

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Speaker 2: a Rorschach test. What you see in him says more

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Speaker 2: about you than it does about him.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Right, And so Republicans, Democrats, Independents, people from all fifty states,

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Speaker 2: twelve different countries. You know, we've been really blessed to

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Speaker 2: have incredible support because of this person who's so universally

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Speaker 2: beloved for different reasons.

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Speaker 1: That's the thing I've mentioned a bunch of times is

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Speaker 1: in given talks, there's not a politician today that wouldn't

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Speaker 1: like to be favorably compared to Roosevelt.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, absolutely, he's Josh Holly and Elizabeth Warren's favorite president.

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Speaker 2: Find me one other thing they agree on. I mean,

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Speaker 2: he's Barack Obama and Mitt Romney's favorite president. Is impossible

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Speaker 2: to find another thing that they agree on. And so

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Speaker 2: what we're doing at the Theodore Roosevelt Presidential Libraries, we

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Speaker 2: don't want to tell you which version of TR you

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Speaker 2: should love. We want you to get out in nature

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Speaker 2: with your family. I'll tell people what versions of Yeah,

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Speaker 2: you can, but you know I'm the head of a nonprofit,

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Speaker 2: so I can't. Inside. We have an immersive, almost theatrical experience.

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Speaker 2: I mean every chapter of TR's life is crazier than

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Speaker 2: the last. I mean if you if you wrote this

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Speaker 2: story and submitted it to an editor, they'd reject it.

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Speaker 2: Say like okay, all right, okay. I mean we can

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Speaker 2: charge up San Juan Hill and we can have the

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Speaker 2: adventure in the Elkhorn, But really we're going to go

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Speaker 2: to Africa and the Amazon. I mean, these are both

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Speaker 2: going to happen in the same life. It's just ridiculous, right,

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Speaker 2: So we want people, especially kids, to immerse themselves in

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Speaker 2: these stories. You know, when you're in Roosevelt's childhood, you

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Speaker 2: want to reach inside a tree if you dare, you

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Speaker 2: want to open a book and an extinct species of

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Speaker 2: bird will fly out and join a wall of wonder.

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Speaker 2: We want you to feel curious when you're when you're

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Speaker 2: doing these things. We want to feel courage. We want

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Speaker 2: you to feel the things that TR felt, so you

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Speaker 2: can get in the arena of your own life and

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Speaker 2: be the change you want to see in the world.

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Speaker 2: Because that's ultimately TR's message is that if you want

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Speaker 2: to be a part of a successful democracy, you have

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Speaker 2: to participate. You have to be in there, you have

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Speaker 2: to you have to fight for it. It's not just

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Speaker 2: going to happen. And whether that's being on the school

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Speaker 2: board or running for a local election. You don't have

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Speaker 2: to be President of the United States to make a difference,

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Speaker 2: but you do have to get involved. And that's the

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Speaker 2: ultimate message of the TR Library.

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Speaker 1: How they did they find you to do this? As

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Speaker 1: you were North Dakota guy, it was crazy. How did

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Speaker 1: you go from media to doing that?

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Speaker 2: I'm still trying to figure that one out. So I

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Speaker 2: was twenty years in the media. As you mentioned, I

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Speaker 2: worked at ABC News. I worked with Tony Bourdain at CNN. Sadly,

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Speaker 2: after Tony died, the show ended and I went to

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Speaker 2: Harvard to basically try to figure things out, and I thought,

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Speaker 2: you know, I want to do the types of programs

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Speaker 2: that we did with Tony in streaming. You know, I

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Speaker 2: thought what was so powerful about working with Tony Bourdain

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Speaker 2: is that, you know, he could go to West Virginia

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Speaker 2: and have a conversation with people who are totally and

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Speaker 2: completely different than him, or he could go to Mumbai

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Speaker 2: and gather them around the table, have a meal and

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Speaker 2: a conversation and bring people together. I had more people

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Speaker 2: talk about what they learned about the world from watching

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Speaker 2: that Part's Unknown than practically anything else I did in media.

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Speaker 2: So I was really curious, like, how can we take that?

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Speaker 2: You know. And at the time, in twenty nineteen, Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, Apple,

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Speaker 2: et cetera. You know, they said we're not going to

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Speaker 2: do any news, We're not going to do any live,

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Speaker 2: We're not gonna do any sports. Also said they're not

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Speaker 2: going to do any podcasts, They're not going to do

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Speaker 2: any right, not going to do short form video. Right,

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Speaker 2: They're doing all of it now in twenty twenty six,

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Speaker 2: but in twenty nineteen it was like, Nope, they're not

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Speaker 2: going to do that. So that's what I was at

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Speaker 2: Harvard to kind of explores, we built ale that studio.

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Speaker 1: We were never going to record, we were never going

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Speaker 1: to do podcasts.

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Speaker 2: Never right for both no videos? He said, no, that's strict. Yes,

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Speaker 2: well you you stuck to it, Stephen. That's what I

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Speaker 2: admire about you when you make a proclamation as you

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Speaker 2: stick to it.

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Speaker 1: So.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So I meet this group who's trying to raise

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Speaker 2: money for the tr Library. It's been an idea for

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Speaker 2: one hundred years since his death, and fits and starts

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Speaker 2: in New York and North Dakota and other various places,

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Speaker 2: never succeeded. And you know, I'm from North Dakota. I'm

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Speaker 2: thinking about what to do with the rest of my

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Speaker 2: life and my professional career. And I was researching a

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Speaker 2: book which became The Loves of Theodore.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so I was worn like Chicken or the Egg

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Speaker 1: kind of deal. Yep, that's not the perfect anough but yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I didn't know if if your book came out of

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Speaker 1: so you were already getting into tr Land.

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Speaker 2: Actually, when you grow up in North Dakota, you're just

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Speaker 2: in tr Land. Tr is your hero, right. I mean,

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Speaker 2: we we got Roger Marris, we got you know, we

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Speaker 2: have Lawrence Well, I mean, come on. We got to

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Speaker 2: give it out Phil Jackson.

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Speaker 1: We got Phil Jackson.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, there we go.

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Speaker 1: We tried to get him on the show, remember that. Yeah, Yes,

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Speaker 1: Nelix fished.

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Speaker 3: He lives up in White here part of the time.

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Speaker 1: I think if you're listening, Phil, yeah, he probably is.

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Speaker 2: He's been following me pretty closely for twenty five years.

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Speaker 2: So this is probably here.

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Speaker 1: My list right now. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Probably mean he's like.

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Speaker 1: Well, that dude's doing it.

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Speaker 2: I'm doing now that Ed has done it. Yeah, I

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Speaker 2: Phil Jackson will do it too. Oh that would be great,

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Speaker 2: that would be I hope that happens for you. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, so the book came before the library. I

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Speaker 2: mean I was in two very different mindsets. I'm in

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Speaker 2: the twenty first century, you know, looking at could we

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Speaker 2: do shows like Tony Bourdain and Parts Unknown in the

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Speaker 2: Streaming Universe? And I'm sneaking away to the Houghton Library,

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Speaker 2: where a big part of Theodore Roosevelt's collection is held,

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Speaker 2: and I'm exploring this story and I you know, I

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Speaker 2: know the tr that you all know right from Mount

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Speaker 2: Rushmore and this kind of chiseled, masculine, crazy, you know,

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Speaker 2: adventurer and two things can be true at the same

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Speaker 2: time that exists, right, that is him. But what I

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Speaker 2: found remarkable is I'm looking at all these letters and

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Speaker 2: every single decision that he ever makes, He's asking his

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Speaker 2: sisters or his mom or his wives for advice, and

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Speaker 2: I'm like, where is I didn't? Like, I didn't. He's

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Speaker 2: kind of this the quintessential self made man. I mean,

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Speaker 2: the person who has no doubts, who asks nobody else

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Speaker 2: for their opinion on anything. Yeah, not true.

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Speaker 1: It's funny to think, like like Trump being like, I

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Speaker 1: don't know, Millenia, what do you think about Greenland?

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Speaker 2: I mean, who knows history will show us history?

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Speaker 1: I don't know. Maybe someday there will be a book.

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Speaker 2: Maybe Greenland really pissed her off, you know.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe she plans that get them yep.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So that's that's what that was. The origin is

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Speaker 2: I was thinking about what to do next. I'm researching

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Speaker 2: the book on Theodore Roosevelt, and I've got this these

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Speaker 2: roots in North Dakota and North Dakota stepped up by

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Speaker 2: offering a fifty million dollar endowment contingent on the foundation's

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Speaker 2: ability to raise one hundred million dollars by the end

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Speaker 2: of twenty twenty which seemed like a daunting task, but

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Speaker 2: it got a lot harder when the pandemic.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know so.

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Speaker 2: But I was like, oh, look is if they have

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Speaker 2: no money, no architect, no land, what a great prospect.

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Speaker 2: I think I'll dive in. My New York wife was

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Speaker 2: really happy with me. She really thought this was a

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Speaker 2: good career move. Yeah, she was so.

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Speaker 1: But you guys haven't it. You guys haven't moved. Do

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Speaker 1: you still have family North Dkota?

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Speaker 2: I do, Yeah, my cousin's, my brother, my uncle's Yeah,

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Speaker 2: my parents are there most of the year. Yep.

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Speaker 1: So do you rent a place there now so you

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Speaker 1: can be out for your work?

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Speaker 2: I mean, since it's a national prime, we like to

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Speaker 2: say it's a global project with your proud North Dakota roots.

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Speaker 2: I mean I'm everywhere all the time talking to people

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Speaker 2: about the project and doing a lot of fundraising. I mean,

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Speaker 2: four hundred million and five years, you got to talk

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Speaker 2: to a lot of people about what you're doing and

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Speaker 2: how you're doing.

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Speaker 1: It and all this is gonna.

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Speaker 2: July fourth, July fourth, twenty twenty six. So yeah, So

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Speaker 2: your question about was that intentional? I don't think. In

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Speaker 2: twenty nineteen, we thought, oh, you know, what would be

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Speaker 2: a great day to open this point that time Randall

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Speaker 2: you know fund in construction. Yeah, yeah, exactly, Yeah, I

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Speaker 2: know at some point we said, hey, wait a second.

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Speaker 2: You know, if we can be a part of America's

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Speaker 2: two hundred and fifty is celebration, that will bring a

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Speaker 2: you know, national attention that we wouldn't otherwise get. But

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Speaker 2: also think about this, So Theodore Roosevelt was president at

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Speaker 2: the nation's one hundred and twenty fifth birthday. He is

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Speaker 2: exactly between the declaration of independence at zero and where

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Speaker 2: we are now at two hundred and fifty. So once again,

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Speaker 2: tr makes you think about where are we going to

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Speaker 2: be at America five hundred because right now the midway

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Speaker 2: point of that point in our distant future. And I

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Speaker 2: saw my.

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Speaker 1: Kids something similar. Man, I was telling them, like, if

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Speaker 1: the Earth's cross solidified four billion years ago and the

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Speaker 1: Sun's going to burn out in four billion years, like

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Speaker 1: it's just the Earth's in a midlife crisis.

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Speaker 2: This is halftime.

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Speaker 1: This is just this is like the crazy midlife crisis,

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Speaker 1: exactly exact kind of mess. The monks they couldn't really

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Speaker 1: conceptualize four billion years. So then there are they're like

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Speaker 1: expecting any second. Expect a second offered the son to go.

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Speaker 2: Well, they can go on Facebook and find a lot

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Speaker 2: of people who believe the same. They're gonna have some

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Speaker 2: real good friends.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good point, man, Like, yeah, he hit

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Speaker 1: the halfway point. He's the halfway And think about this, right, like,

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Speaker 1: I never thought about that. So much is eerily similar

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Speaker 1: to where we are now. Right, the economy is changing.

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Speaker 2: You're going from an agrarian to an industrial society. They

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Speaker 2: think about men's worth. I mean, the value of a

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Speaker 2: man to a family was how much they could hunt,

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Speaker 2: how much they could gather, how much they could farm,

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Speaker 2: how much and right, and that suddenly comes well, how

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Speaker 2: much are you worth? How much are you making? You

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Speaker 2: have an industrial job? Right, You're moving from a rural

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Speaker 2: area to an urban area. Cities are developing. So immigration.

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Speaker 2: Immigration was a huge issue in TR's time, right, and

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Speaker 2: then it was Irish and Germans and Italians and Chinese,

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Speaker 2: and you know, it leads to one of the largest

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Speaker 2: crackdowns in immigration in US history right right after TR's time,

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Speaker 2: where he's a very welcoming presence and.

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Speaker 1: The Italians they'll never integrate they're always going to put

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Speaker 1: family in front of nation.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you know, Irish need not apply, right,

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Speaker 2: I mean, this was a very This has happened many.

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Speaker 1: Times, the clan mentality of the Irish and technology.

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Speaker 2: Think about technology. I mean Theodre Roosevelt's born in eighteen

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Speaker 2: fifty eight. There's no electricity, there's no cars, there's no airplanes,

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Speaker 2: there's no submarines. He's the first president to travel abroad

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Speaker 2: while in office. He's the first president to send a

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Speaker 2: telegraph by why, He's the first president to use a

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Speaker 2: telephone in the White House, first president in a motorcade,

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Speaker 2: first president in an airplane, in a submarine, and on

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Speaker 2: and on and on and on the list goes. So

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Speaker 2: technology is uprooting the way people feel about life. They're

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Speaker 2: scared because it's moving so fast and changing so quickly.

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Speaker 2: What is this going to mean? And here's this person

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Speaker 2: who says, I'm embracing this, It's going to be okay.

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Speaker 2: And he's also one of the great naturalists of our time,

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Speaker 2: so he knows to get out of the car and

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Speaker 2: get on horse and get out into nature and have

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Speaker 2: a tonic to all this technology that is changing everything

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Speaker 2: in every way. Of American life. So he I mean,

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Speaker 2: it's all happening again. History doesn't repeat. It rhymes.

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Speaker 1: Totally off. So I want to get back into this,

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Speaker 1: but just it's just popping in my head. Where was

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Speaker 1: he at in his career when he got shot?

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Speaker 2: He was the X president. It was the bull It

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Speaker 2: was like the bull Moose era Bull Moose. Definitely. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: he's he's running against his his successor, Taft and Wilson.

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Speaker 2: He's an independent bull Moose progressive.

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Speaker 1: And that's when he got winged.

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Speaker 2: Yeh, not winged. I mean, have you ever seen like

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Speaker 2: we're gonna have that? Those pieces they've never been we

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Speaker 2: got so I've got so the only thing that saved

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Speaker 2: t R's life and he took a point blank shot

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Speaker 2: right in the chest, and it was he had a

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Speaker 2: double breasted suit. He had a speech about fifty pages long,

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Speaker 2: doubled over in his breast coat pocket. And then the

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Speaker 2: thing that really saved him, he had his eyeglass case

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Speaker 2: that was still reinforced. And that's the that's the one.

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Speaker 1: Seriously, yep, know about the eyeglass. I just thought he

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Speaker 1: had like a book or something.

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Speaker 2: No, No, it was all three items really combined to

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Speaker 2: save that had.

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Speaker 1: Been Lincoln because the Gettysburg address was so short. Dead

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Speaker 1: it punched right through it, through it. Right, that's why

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Speaker 1: you should write long as long.

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Speaker 2: That's right.

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Speaker 1: That's right.

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Speaker 2: So it's crazy. So we're reuniting these items for the

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Speaker 2: first time. They've never been on display together.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you guys got the eyeglass case.

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Speaker 2: The eyeglass case, so the bullet who had the diameter

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Speaker 2: of the bullet hole going in the front part of

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Speaker 2: the case is very wide. I mean you're like, oh,

399
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Speaker 2: he's dead, and then it narrows. You could see how

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Speaker 2: much it narrows out the other side. It slowed it down.

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Speaker 2: I mean, had it gone through at the velocity that

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Speaker 2: it was intended at point blank range, he's dead?

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Speaker 1: Did you huh Randal, don't bullshit me. Did you know

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Speaker 1: about the eyeglass case.

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Speaker 2: I did.

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Speaker 3: I couldn't have described the hole to you, but well.

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Speaker 2: You got to come to Medor who had there. So

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Speaker 2: the National Park Service had the eyeglass case, another park

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Speaker 2: had the shirt. So it all got separated through the

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Speaker 2: years and the revolver the gun is gone. And by

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Speaker 2: the way, the assassin was stalking Theodore Roosevelt through several

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Speaker 2: different speeches and looking for the opportunity to shoot him

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Speaker 2: at point blank range. He had a dream, a vision

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Speaker 2: that William McKinley, the president who was assassinated that allowed

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Speaker 2: tr to ascend to the presidency, had spoken to him

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Speaker 2: and told him that he needed to prevent Theodore Roosevelt

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Speaker 2: from seeking a third term, that he was an illegitimate president,

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Speaker 2: and then he had to be killed.

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Speaker 1: Makes sense.

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Speaker 2: I mean, they recently read.

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Speaker 1: A dream.

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Speaker 2: He came to him, a dream. I mean, but think

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Speaker 2: about this too. Political violence, right, another thing that was

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Speaker 2: a hallmark of TR's time that we're experiencing again. I mean,

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Speaker 2: this is three presidents were assassinated in TR's while he's

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Speaker 2: coming up through the system, I mean, including his the McKinley,

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Speaker 2: who leads to him becoming the youngest president in history.

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Speaker 2: I mean, this was unfortunately routine.

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Speaker 1: You know, the dude that killed Lincoln shot Lincoln in

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Speaker 1: a theater, yep, and then went and hit out in

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Speaker 1: John Wilkes booth, went hitting the book depository.

432
00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:02,600
Speaker 2: Hear me out. Okay, all right, okay.

433
00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:06,359
Speaker 1: The dude that shot Lincoln shot him in a theater,

434
00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:09,000
Speaker 1: and I think they caught him in a book deposit

435
00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:12,160
Speaker 1: I'm not joking. Look at them. The guy that shot Kennedy.

436
00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:16,240
Speaker 1: The guy that shot Kennedy shot him from a book depository.

437
00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:17,400
Speaker 1: They caught him in the theater.

438
00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:21,680
Speaker 2: You know that Lincoln's secretary was named Kennedy, and Kennedy's

439
00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:22,879
Speaker 2: secretary was named Lincoln.

440
00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:24,560
Speaker 1: Didn't know that. Bag me up.

441
00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:25,320
Speaker 2: Where's your computer?

442
00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:25,600
Speaker 1: Man?

443
00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:27,560
Speaker 2: I'm flying by.

444
00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:31,840
Speaker 1: Someone looked already knew about the glasses. Look up, where

445
00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:35,919
Speaker 1: did booth get caught? Barn I could be strong, but

446
00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:37,720
Speaker 1: check this out. When we were on we were just

447
00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:41,680
Speaker 1: on live tour, ye and we're doing a show in Dallas,

448
00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:43,760
Speaker 1: and none of us knew this, Like we had like

449
00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:48,600
Speaker 1: booked the venue. One of our guys, he's hanging around somehow,

450
00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:50,639
Speaker 1: he's going to get a cup of coffee or something.

451
00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:53,400
Speaker 1: Winds up out in front of the venue and he's

452
00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:56,320
Speaker 1: reading some sign and he comes bags like this is where?

453
00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:56,639
Speaker 2: This is?

454
00:23:56,680 --> 00:24:00,240
Speaker 1: Where Wald like we're in the building where.

455
00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:04,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, And it's right next to a dispensary called Doobies.

456
00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:08,680
Speaker 1: Everything changes. Lincoln was a.

457
00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:13,760
Speaker 2: Big du right, Yeah, he was in the text. He

458
00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:16,440
Speaker 2: shot him from the sixth floor of the Texas Book

459
00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:20,040
Speaker 2: Depository and again is caught at a theater. So that's

460
00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:21,280
Speaker 2: probably what you're right.

461
00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:22,680
Speaker 3: He was caught at the theater.

462
00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:23,960
Speaker 2: He was caught at a movie theater.

463
00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:28,080
Speaker 1: Ye, my tip it in the theater.

464
00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:30,480
Speaker 2: Oswald was caught in the theater. Lincoln was shot in

465
00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:30,800
Speaker 2: the theater.

466
00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:35,880
Speaker 1: And and if I'm not about where to catch booth.

467
00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:39,560
Speaker 2: And at the movie theater to a rural a farm

468
00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:40,879
Speaker 2: in rural North Virginia.

469
00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:43,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, books.

470
00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:48,399
Speaker 2: Storing book I get where you're going.

471
00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:50,200
Speaker 1: I think I'm just wrong.

472
00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:55,159
Speaker 2: No, no, no, Lee, Harvey Oswald shot Kennedy from the

473
00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:58,240
Speaker 2: book deposit. It was was pretty close barn.

474
00:24:58,720 --> 00:24:59,920
Speaker 3: Well, things are stored there.

475
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:01,919
Speaker 1: I think they were. They must have been having a

476
00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:07,400
Speaker 1: lot of book Just trust me, listeners, that full of books.

477
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:10,840
Speaker 2: Maybe they started the fire with books they were getting. Yeah,

478
00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:15,080
Speaker 2: that's what I'm going to give you. That one depository

479
00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:18,880
Speaker 2: they thought about depositor.

480
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:24,399
Speaker 1: Okay, we're on track.

481
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:27,040
Speaker 2: There's a great book about that, by the way, Manhunt

482
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:29,840
Speaker 2: James Swanson Twelve Day Manhunt.

483
00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:30,320
Speaker 1: Never read it.

484
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:32,640
Speaker 2: By seeing it is I think it was turned into

485
00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:35,119
Speaker 2: a series. I don't know.

486
00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:39,080
Speaker 3: I remember I can visualize the burning of the barn. Yeah,

487
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:42,800
Speaker 3: and the series on Garfields. Oh, that's amazing.

488
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:45,800
Speaker 2: That's Candice Millard, who also read The River of Doubt,

489
00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:48,240
Speaker 2: which page for page that is, I mean that reads

490
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:48,800
Speaker 2: like a novel.

491
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:51,879
Speaker 1: And who was the hell Hound on his Trail? Was

492
00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:55,800
Speaker 1: the guy that was the King Assassin? Was that what

493
00:25:55,800 --> 00:26:00,360
Speaker 1: that books about? Yeah? Hell hound on his Trail or something? Yeah,

494
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:01,800
Speaker 1: you're right either way. I want to get into our

495
00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:03,080
Speaker 1: body here tr.

496
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:09,760
Speaker 2: Sickly kid, yeah, yeah, beyond real.

497
00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:12,919
Speaker 1: Sickly, Okay, get into it. This forms like his like

498
00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:15,240
Speaker 1: he has an intense relationship with his mom.

499
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:18,840
Speaker 2: Yes, the very first words of the Loves of Theodore

500
00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 2: Roosevelt are from the beginning, Theodore Roosevelt's survival was very

501
00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:25,280
Speaker 2: much in doubt. And I think this is the part

502
00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:28,120
Speaker 2: that a lot of biographers miss. Is you, okay, he's

503
00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:31,760
Speaker 2: an asthmatic, sickly kid, but it led his mother to

504
00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:36,800
Speaker 2: be extraordinarily protective of him, to keep him from going outdoors.

505
00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:39,600
Speaker 2: It wasn't just the asthma and the smog and the

506
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:43,320
Speaker 2: environmental devastation of New York in the eighteen sixties. It

507
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:47,840
Speaker 2: was her really thinking that legitimately he could die if

508
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:51,320
Speaker 2: he were exposed to too much. And so you know,

509
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:51,880
Speaker 2: here's a.

510
00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:55,359
Speaker 1: One because of like a bygone thinking like the miasma

511
00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:57,479
Speaker 1: or is that like legitimate thing?

512
00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:01,040
Speaker 2: It was legitimate thing. I mean he the doctors did

513
00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:03,359
Speaker 2: not think he would live beyond four or five years old.

514
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:05,960
Speaker 2: I mean he he he from the beginning of his

515
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:10,080
Speaker 2: life learned that you need to will yourself through physical

516
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:14,320
Speaker 2: and emotional pain. And his mom, who's often derided as

517
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:19,120
Speaker 2: having no influence over him, she is a charismatic Southerner, right,

518
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:22,600
Speaker 2: She's from the Bullock family. She's the inspiration for Scarlett

519
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:25,040
Speaker 2: O'Hara and Gone with the Wind. I mean she's a character.

520
00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:28,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, Ramball says, she dressed him up in little dresses.

521
00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:30,040
Speaker 2: I mean they did that in the age that was

522
00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:33,880
Speaker 2: Victorian She that was that, Yes, you would, you would, yes,

523
00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:35,480
Speaker 2: but that was not uncommon.

524
00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:41,160
Speaker 1: That's fair, It was not uncommon. He put it out

525
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:42,200
Speaker 1: like it was on But no.

526
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:44,920
Speaker 3: It's I mean I always thought it's it's this interesting.

527
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:48,680
Speaker 3: He's not like growing up wearing buckskins and oh no, yeah, no, no,

528
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:50,920
Speaker 3: no he is. You said it, Stephen. I mean he's

529
00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:54,240
Speaker 3: from the elite of the elite society. He's rich.

530
00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:57,439
Speaker 2: There's no reason for him to go into politics or

531
00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:00,560
Speaker 2: to go out into nature other than at the time

532
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:03,679
Speaker 2: the doctors would give two different cures. For women, they

533
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:06,439
Speaker 2: would say, you need the rest cure, right, if you're

534
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:10,320
Speaker 2: afflicted by something, go lie down in bed. For men,

535
00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:13,560
Speaker 2: they would say, you need the West cure. Go west,

536
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:17,200
Speaker 2: go hunting, get out into nature, do something that will

537
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:21,440
Speaker 2: revive your spirits. But as a child, I mean MIDI

538
00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:24,960
Speaker 2: his mother would literally massage his chest when he was

539
00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:28,800
Speaker 2: having as asthmatic attacks and blood would come out. I

540
00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:29,560
Speaker 2: mean that's all.

541
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:30,960
Speaker 1: That's how often that bad?

542
00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:33,920
Speaker 2: That bad? I mean she he would have these recurring

543
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:37,520
Speaker 2: he remembers her remembers as a child having recurring nightmares

544
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:40,120
Speaker 2: where the devil would come in the middle of the

545
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:43,360
Speaker 2: night and steal him away. And I mean and the

546
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:44,280
Speaker 2: devil like.

547
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:46,200
Speaker 1: He's like contemplating his own mortality.

548
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:49,480
Speaker 2: And yes, yes, And even when he gets when he's

549
00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:51,680
Speaker 2: twenty years old, he goes to a doctor at Harvard

550
00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:55,560
Speaker 2: and the doctor says, you have you will not live

551
00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:59,120
Speaker 2: past sixty, And he doesn't. I mean, so he decides

552
00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:01,440
Speaker 2: at that moment in his life he is going to

553
00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:05,080
Speaker 2: live to the hilt. How old is he when dead sixty?

554
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:07,920
Speaker 2: He had just turned sixty. Yeah, I was that young, right,

555
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:09,400
Speaker 2: I mean it, you know, you hit me with all

556
00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:11,840
Speaker 2: kinds of te arnists that I didn't know about. That's

557
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:12,520
Speaker 2: what I'm here for.

558
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:16,080
Speaker 1: Sixty I never really like. Yeah, that young.

559
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:17,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's kind of crazy to think of all he

560
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:20,040
Speaker 2: accomplished young, you know.

561
00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:24,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it is like, what do you expect, dude?

562
00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:27,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean right, yeah, long life. Yeah yeah, So

563
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:29,480
Speaker 2: I mean Middy, Let's start with mom, because you always

564
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:30,280
Speaker 2: have to start with mom.

565
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 1: Right.

566
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:33,400
Speaker 2: She is a She's a Southerner, she grew up in Georgia.

567
00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:37,960
Speaker 2: She's willful, She's got this incredibly personality. Everybody she's a

568
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:41,800
Speaker 2: great storyteller, right, so everybody knows that, like Middy is

569
00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:43,640
Speaker 2: the one who will entertain you. And she's got an

570
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:48,040
Speaker 2: incredibly refined taste. She marries a New Yorker, and she

571
00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:51,520
Speaker 2: is in New York during the Civil War and brings

572
00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:55,000
Speaker 2: her mother and her sister up from Georgia to live

573
00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:57,240
Speaker 2: with the Roosevelts. So the Indo Roosevelt.

574
00:29:57,240 --> 00:29:58,200
Speaker 1: She's an abolitionist.

575
00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:00,520
Speaker 2: Oh no, no, no, she was a. She was a

576
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:03,800
Speaker 2: She believed in the Confederacy should fly the Confederate flag.

577
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:07,160
Speaker 2: She refused to have her husband fight for the Confederacy

578
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:10,640
Speaker 2: because she feared he'd meet her brothers on the field

579
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:14,280
Speaker 2: of battle. Yeah, yeah, yeah, she and she, I.

580
00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:17,800
Speaker 1: Mean she didn't want her brothers to do what.

581
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:23,560
Speaker 2: So Middy Roosevelt. Theodore Roosevelt's mom and Eleanor Roosevelt's grandmother

582
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:32,000
Speaker 2: was a Confederate through and through unreconstructed, but she so

583
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:37,040
Speaker 2: she forbade her husband, Theodo Roosevelt's father from fighting for

584
00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:42,320
Speaker 2: the Union. Okay, all right, So instead what he did

585
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:47,080
Speaker 2: he would meet her family exactly exactly, and so dastardly

586
00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:51,200
Speaker 2: were his were her brother's deeds that they were not

587
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:54,400
Speaker 2: granted general amnesty after the Civil War?

588
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:54,680
Speaker 3: Oh?

589
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:55,040
Speaker 1: Really?

590
00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:58,320
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, they lived the rest of their life in Europe,

591
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:00,400
Speaker 2: in London and in Liverpool.

592
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:01,320
Speaker 1: Forest Bedford types.

593
00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:05,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. No, they were the ones that figured out

594
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:08,160
Speaker 2: how to run the blockade so they would get supplies

595
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:10,880
Speaker 2: because the South didn't have steel and didn't have some

596
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:14,240
Speaker 2: of the things you'd need for munitions and creating rifles

597
00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:17,680
Speaker 2: and bullets, and so they were sneaking all of that

598
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:23,560
Speaker 2: in very effectively from London to the South. And then

599
00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:25,720
Speaker 2: one of them was thought to have been part of

600
00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:30,720
Speaker 2: the financing of Lincoln's assassination. Really yes, so I mean

601
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:33,840
Speaker 2: they weren't just Confederates, they were devout confederates. I mean

602
00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:38,280
Speaker 2: one of her brothers tombstones in Liverpool, says an American

603
00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:43,520
Speaker 2: by birth and Englishman by choice. Really yeah, yeah.

604
00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:45,920
Speaker 1: Did tr addressed that kind of stuff later in life?

605
00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:48,960
Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean you know this. He he was a

606
00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:53,080
Speaker 2: Northerner who had his identity in the East with a

607
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:56,560
Speaker 2: Southern mother, who had this political identity in the West.

608
00:31:56,640 --> 00:31:59,240
Speaker 2: Because of his cowboy and ranching days. He was the

609
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:03,880
Speaker 2: all America quintessential perfect candidate to kick open the door

610
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:06,400
Speaker 2: of what would become the American Century because he had

611
00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:07,400
Speaker 2: something for everybody.

612
00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:09,280
Speaker 1: Right. However, he did his mom die? Then?

613
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:12,520
Speaker 2: His mom died of the same day as his wife,

614
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:14,560
Speaker 2: February fourteenth, eighteen eighty four.

615
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:20,520
Speaker 1: So did she nineteen years after the Civil War? What

616
00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:21,840
Speaker 1: was her attitude at that point?

617
00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:27,440
Speaker 2: I mean she was, according to her son, an unreconstructed remain. Yeah,

618
00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:29,560
Speaker 2: that's your whole life, and think about it. So, I

619
00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:32,760
Speaker 2: mean again, I bring up her mother and her sister

620
00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:36,760
Speaker 2: both lived with the Roosevelts. So he's growing Theodore Roosevelt's

621
00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:40,680
Speaker 2: growing up in a house with one brother, two sisters,

622
00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:44,640
Speaker 2: his mother, his grandmother, and his aunt. He's got a

623
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:47,800
Speaker 2: lot of feminine influences in the house, right, and his

624
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:52,720
Speaker 2: dad is off with Lincoln often because he can't fight

625
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:56,200
Speaker 2: for the Union. He's decided to lead an effort to

626
00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:59,760
Speaker 2: take part of soldier's earnings and convince them to send

627
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:03,160
Speaker 2: them back to their families because they would get paid

628
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:05,719
Speaker 2: and they were the primary earners. They were away from

629
00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:07,800
Speaker 2: the house, and a lot of them would blow it

630
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:11,120
Speaker 2: party with the movies and exactly because they could die

631
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:13,520
Speaker 2: at any moment. But he was trying to convince him

632
00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:14,760
Speaker 2: send this back. So this is amazing.

633
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:17,440
Speaker 1: I found what a complex scenario though, I was sort

634
00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:20,200
Speaker 1: of like put a finer point on what a complex

635
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:25,360
Speaker 1: situation for Ti R's mother. Yeah, where she's got relatives

636
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:30,680
Speaker 1: trying to violate the blockade yep, and then she's got

637
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:36,560
Speaker 1: other close family members like running around involved at an

638
00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:40,760
Speaker 1: administrative level with running the Union war effort.

639
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:44,240
Speaker 2: Theodore Roosevelt grew up in a house divided, in a

640
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:47,640
Speaker 2: nation divided, and he learned from his parents that you

641
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:51,680
Speaker 2: can disagree without being disagreeable. You can you can be

642
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:57,360
Speaker 2: vitriolically opposed to one another, but you at heart need

643
00:33:57,400 --> 00:33:59,880
Speaker 2: to love one another and it's it's a message he'll

644
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:04,720
Speaker 2: harry his whole life. He really does learn that you

645
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:07,959
Speaker 2: need to find a way to bring people together to

646
00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:11,640
Speaker 2: get the best political result that you want. He's not

647
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:14,560
Speaker 2: a divisive figure in part because of his mother. I mean,

648
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:17,479
Speaker 2: when his father dies. So Theodre Roosevelt's father dies. When

649
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:20,399
Speaker 2: tr is a sophomore in college, he's only twenty years old.

650
00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:25,799
Speaker 2: He had cancer and they didn't know necessarily if it

651
00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:29,320
Speaker 2: was going to be deadly, and so Theodore Roosevelt didn't

652
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:30,920
Speaker 2: make it home in time to say goodbye.

653
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:31,760
Speaker 1: What kind of cancer?

654
00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:36,000
Speaker 2: He had? Stomach cancer, and it was excruciating. His brother, Elliott,

655
00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:40,040
Speaker 2: which is a whole other, fascinating dynamic, right Elliot in

656
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:44,520
Speaker 2: the competition that they had, Elliott is handsome and dashing

657
00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:47,160
Speaker 2: and at first shows a lot more promise than Tr.

658
00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:51,359
Speaker 2: And academically he's a fabulous hunter. I mean, Elliott is.

659
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:54,800
Speaker 2: He's like a sharp shooter. There's stories of him shooting

660
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:58,040
Speaker 2: elk from two hundred yards away without I mean, and

661
00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:00,680
Speaker 2: tr couldn't do this. I mean tr had terrible eyesight.

662
00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:02,520
Speaker 2: He had to practice, he had to work at it,

663
00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:06,000
Speaker 2: he had to fight his way through everything he ever

664
00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:10,040
Speaker 2: did and so all these family dynamics add up to

665
00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:15,080
Speaker 2: who he really is. And you know, Midy, his mom

666
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:19,319
Speaker 2: teaches him two really important things. One how to tell

667
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:23,800
Speaker 2: stories and how to connect with people with empathy, big, big,

668
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:27,520
Speaker 2: big part of why he's successful as a politician. And

669
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:30,640
Speaker 2: after his father dies, she sits him down, sits all

670
00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:33,120
Speaker 2: the kids down, and says, you need to live for

671
00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:36,319
Speaker 2: the living and not for the dead. If you do

672
00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:39,000
Speaker 2: not live a life of purpose, you will dishonor the

673
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:41,960
Speaker 2: memory of your father. There it is, I mean, willing

674
00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:46,399
Speaker 2: himself through physical and emotional pain and this great, big personality.

675
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:49,280
Speaker 2: Both of those things come from his mother. His father's

676
00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:51,719
Speaker 2: a great man, it can't be denied. But the fact

677
00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:54,560
Speaker 2: that he died at age twenty when Tiarra was twenty,

678
00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:58,880
Speaker 2: really gave this outsize importance to his father in theodo

679
00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:03,520
Speaker 2: Roosevelt's memory, because his whole life he was trying to,

680
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:07,040
Speaker 2: you know, honor him and and be better than him

681
00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:10,279
Speaker 2: in many ways, fulfill the life that he didn't get to.

682
00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:14,319
Speaker 1: Live now when he was a kid. Part of if

683
00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:18,120
Speaker 1: you read about if you read about tr From as

684
00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:21,920
Speaker 1: a conservationist, a big part of that narrative is that

685
00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:27,560
Speaker 1: he developed this fascination with wildlife as a kid, where

686
00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:32,040
Speaker 1: he's he kind of becomes a hobbyist, taxidermist. He's a naturalist.

687
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:36,160
Speaker 1: He's engaged in study of wildlife. What like, to what

688
00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:40,040
Speaker 1: extent is that going on under you know, to what

689
00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:42,160
Speaker 1: extent is that going on with the awareness of his

690
00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:44,279
Speaker 1: mother and what does his mother's take on that? Is

691
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:46,440
Speaker 1: she supportive of that or does that stuff bugger?

692
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:49,640
Speaker 2: She's extraordinarily supportive of likes it. I mean, even though

693
00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:54,480
Speaker 2: she's a bit of a germophobe. She you know, he

694
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:59,520
Speaker 2: stores mice in the refrigerator, and you know, he he's

695
00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:03,480
Speaker 2: got Roosevelt Museum of Natural History in his room. This

696
00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:05,400
Speaker 2: is what we're doing at the tr Library. We're actually

697
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:12,960
Speaker 2: recreating his boyhood room, like his imagination, so taxidermy, you know,

698
00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:16,319
Speaker 2: going to he does these. I've seen the collections at

699
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:19,640
Speaker 2: the Smithsonian's extraordinary to see, you know, because he's really

700
00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:25,040
Speaker 2: a dedicated scientist, I mean conservationists then and now he's

701
00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:29,400
Speaker 2: hunting in order to study them. To understand. He's always

702
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:32,160
Speaker 2: creating a series. Right, so it's not just you get

703
00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:36,160
Speaker 2: this thing like he hunted so much, like its ridiculous

704
00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:38,440
Speaker 2: amount or the volume of his hunting. He's doing it

705
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:41,400
Speaker 2: for scientific purposes, right, he needs one of each type

706
00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:44,560
Speaker 2: in order to see the variations in them.

707
00:37:44,719 --> 00:37:46,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, there was like he was like in an era

708
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:49,320
Speaker 1: of cataloging exactly.

709
00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:52,440
Speaker 2: And you could see that throughout his whole life. I

710
00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:56,520
Speaker 2: mean he's a very serious naturalist, even as a young child.

711
00:37:56,560 --> 00:38:00,440
Speaker 2: You know, he's not just you know, he's not just hunting.

712
00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:04,279
Speaker 2: He's then doing the taxidermy, putting the scientific explanations is

713
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:06,200
Speaker 2: another source of tension with he and his brother. His

714
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:08,640
Speaker 2: brother would say, good lord, like, we're on the hunt.

715
00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:10,839
Speaker 2: Can you just live? Could you just have some fun

716
00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:14,560
Speaker 2: Instead he you know, do catalog and the scientific names

717
00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:17,560
Speaker 2: and the variations of the species. And you know, he's

718
00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:21,439
Speaker 2: a really I think but for meeting Alice Hathaway Lee,

719
00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:25,520
Speaker 2: he probably would have become a naturalist or a scientist.

720
00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:27,440
Speaker 2: I mean there were there were two reasons he didn't

721
00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:32,360
Speaker 2: in college. One, natural sciences were shifting from the outdoors

722
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:34,560
Speaker 2: into the laboratory and he didn't want to be in

723
00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:37,000
Speaker 2: a laboratory. He wanted to be out in nature. And

724
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:39,359
Speaker 2: two he met Alice Hathaway Lee.

725
00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:43,640
Speaker 1: Uh, did you have a lot of girlfriends? Like when

726
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:45,480
Speaker 1: he's a kid, Did you have Do people have girlfriends?

727
00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:46,480
Speaker 1: He did not.

728
00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:49,960
Speaker 2: He did not because he was a geeky naturalist in

729
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:56,960
Speaker 2: whose wake for meldehyde lingered. I mean, I mean, yeah,

730
00:38:57,400 --> 00:38:59,920
Speaker 2: he had a stench. He had. He was an oddball.

731
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:04,840
Speaker 2: I mean the recollections of his college friends are pretty harsh.

732
00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:08,640
Speaker 2: I mean, his first biographers literally just ignored all that

733
00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:11,239
Speaker 2: and kept it out of the record because they would

734
00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:15,560
Speaker 2: call him eccentric, half crazy. I mean, he lived alone

735
00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:17,920
Speaker 2: in an apartment because who the hell would want to

736
00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:21,160
Speaker 2: live with him while he's got taxidermy and from elde

737
00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:24,440
Speaker 2: hyde and all these dangerous chemicals that you'd use at

738
00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:26,200
Speaker 2: the time. I mean, no, he did not have a

739
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:28,040
Speaker 2: lot of girlfriends up.

740
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:32,879
Speaker 3: Until up until he went to Harvard. That was his

741
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:35,160
Speaker 3: first time in a classroom, right, I mean, he had

742
00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:37,680
Speaker 3: had private tutors up until then. Did he have as

743
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:41,320
Speaker 3: a kid, did he have much exposure to people outside

744
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:44,800
Speaker 3: of his family that were his of his cohort or

745
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:48,279
Speaker 3: is his experience in Harvard's sort of his first.

746
00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:53,040
Speaker 2: It's a good question. I mean, because his uncles, his

747
00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:59,080
Speaker 2: mom's brothers were overseas. They take these great trips to Europe, right,

748
00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:03,200
Speaker 2: and to uh, you know, to Egypt. Yeah, he did

749
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:05,439
Speaker 2: some collecting and he did a lot of collecting there,

750
00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:08,440
Speaker 2: and his father would give him rifles for his birthday

751
00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:10,279
Speaker 2: and for Christmas, and then they'd go on these I

752
00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:13,960
Speaker 2: mean these long they were gone for a year, eighteen months,

753
00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:18,680
Speaker 2: and that was his first exposure to the larger world

754
00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:22,880
Speaker 2: and certainly the natural world. He meets, he's got a

755
00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:26,279
Speaker 2: he's got this extraordinary relationship with Henry Davis may Not,

756
00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:29,200
Speaker 2: who would be considered sort of his best friend in

757
00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:33,320
Speaker 2: college and actually the namesake of mine not North Dakota.

758
00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:39,480
Speaker 2: And they're they're constantly talking about like how to how

759
00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:42,000
Speaker 2: to be a man, like how how to show your

760
00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:47,080
Speaker 2: manliness and in this Victorian era, you know, and and

761
00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:50,439
Speaker 2: they go out and they they they His first book,

762
00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:54,440
Speaker 2: it's not really a book, is the Birds of the

763
00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:57,960
Speaker 2: aut around ACKs. So they spend the entire summer cataloging

764
00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:00,000
Speaker 2: all the birds of the aut around ACKs and then

765
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:04,600
Speaker 2: publish a book of of their summer studies. I mean

766
00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:08,200
Speaker 2: not you know, it's not not exactly your normal activity

767
00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:12,399
Speaker 2: for a wealthy defeat person of the time.

768
00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:16,440
Speaker 1: Did did where did the primary what was the primary

769
00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:18,720
Speaker 1: wealth on his father's side, or on his mother's side.

770
00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:20,960
Speaker 2: They were both wealthy, but the big bulk of it

771
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:23,080
Speaker 2: came from his father's side, So his father.

772
00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:24,800
Speaker 1: So he was more loaded than his wife.

773
00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:27,040
Speaker 2: Yeah he was. He was a partner in Roosevelt and Sons,

774
00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:29,920
Speaker 2: but his real focus was philanthropy. He was the founder

775
00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:32,160
Speaker 2: of the American Museum in Natural History. He was the

776
00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:34,480
Speaker 2: founder of the Metropolitan Museum of Art. He founded the

777
00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:38,359
Speaker 2: first orthopedic hospitals. Yeah, yeah, this is what he did.

778
00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:46,919
Speaker 2: His his grandfather, Cornelius van Check Roosevelt was loaded man. Well,

779
00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:49,400
Speaker 2: but this is the only one that my kids remember

780
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:54,480
Speaker 2: because his initials are CVS. Like CVS the money came

781
00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:57,520
Speaker 2: from CVS. I'm like it, Yes it did, but not

782
00:41:57,640 --> 00:42:00,319
Speaker 2: the CBS you're thinking of. That's not where he got

783
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:03,600
Speaker 2: his money. He was one of the founding directors of

784
00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:09,720
Speaker 2: Chemical Bank, which then became Chase Manhattan. That became Chase.

785
00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:13,120
Speaker 2: That's JP Morgan Chase today. So the Roosevelt family fortune

786
00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:16,200
Speaker 2: still lives on in the form of JP Morgan Chase,

787
00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:19,880
Speaker 2: with whom he had all kinds of battles and is

788
00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:20,840
Speaker 2: another great story.

789
00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:24,520
Speaker 1: Okay, so get into the woman and he met.

790
00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:29,480
Speaker 2: He's how old, So he's eighteen, and there's a really

791
00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:33,680
Speaker 2: consequential year in Theodo Roosevelt's life eighteen seventy eight. February ninth,

792
00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:37,040
Speaker 2: eighteen seventy eight. He's in his first year in college

793
00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:41,320
Speaker 2: and his father dies someone unexpectedly. He doesn't make it

794
00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:43,319
Speaker 2: home to say goodbye. He never forgives himself, and he

795
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:45,759
Speaker 2: never forgives his brother Elliot, for not telling him that

796
00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:49,160
Speaker 2: dad was going downhill. Then he goes home. And to

797
00:42:49,239 --> 00:42:51,520
Speaker 2: your earlier question about did he have any girlfriends, he

798
00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:54,680
Speaker 2: had one that he was very close with, who was

799
00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:59,359
Speaker 2: Edith Carrow, his childhood neighbor and his homeschooled playmate. So

800
00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:02,240
Speaker 2: his mother brought Edith into the fold of the family

801
00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:04,960
Speaker 2: and at she was three years younger, same age as

802
00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:08,120
Speaker 2: his younger sister, and everyone thought they were going to

803
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:11,520
Speaker 2: get married. Everyone thought, inevitably, when Edith comes of age

804
00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:14,320
Speaker 2: at seventeen, which in the Victorian times you were eligible

805
00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:18,120
Speaker 2: to wed, they were going to get engaged. Her birthday

806
00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:18,560
Speaker 2: comes around.

807
00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:20,840
Speaker 1: That wouldn't have been unusual in those days that you

808
00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:22,960
Speaker 1: would marry someone you were brought up around.

809
00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:26,440
Speaker 2: Now be very common, very common expected, right.

810
00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:27,960
Speaker 1: Because there was like family connections.

811
00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:32,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, but Edith came from a family whose fortunes were

812
00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:37,000
Speaker 2: falling and the Roosevelts were incredibly rising, so there was

813
00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:41,160
Speaker 2: some tension. And Edith's father was an alcoholic who lost

814
00:43:41,200 --> 00:43:45,200
Speaker 2: control of the family business. She was a real independent,

815
00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:49,680
Speaker 2: tough minded, you know, not going to suffer fools, gladly woman.

816
00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:54,560
Speaker 2: And so August twenty second, eighteen seventy eight comes and

817
00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:56,880
Speaker 2: they go for they go out picking water lilies, they

818
00:43:56,920 --> 00:44:00,800
Speaker 2: go for a rowboat ride Oyster Bay, and so happens.

819
00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:05,040
Speaker 2: They have an explosive fight and break up, and they

820
00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:07,600
Speaker 2: never tell anybody what happened. They only talk about it

821
00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:09,160
Speaker 2: twice the rest of their lives.

822
00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:10,640
Speaker 1: I think you have to put the moves on her.

823
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:14,479
Speaker 2: Could be we need the Netflix adaptation of the Loves

824
00:44:14,520 --> 00:44:17,840
Speaker 2: of Theodore Roosevelt to really speculate here, to out to

825
00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:20,680
Speaker 2: find out what happened on August twenty second, eighteen seventy

826
00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:24,040
Speaker 2: He loses his father, he breaks up with his girlfriend,

827
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:26,680
Speaker 2: and then he goes back to college. It's his sophomore year,

828
00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:29,880
Speaker 2: and he meets Alice Hathway Lee and Alice.

829
00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:30,839
Speaker 1: And him and Edith are just done down.

830
00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:34,200
Speaker 2: He's like, who's Edith, Where's Edith? Like gone Like. He

831
00:44:34,239 --> 00:44:37,960
Speaker 2: meets Alice. He goes on a mad two year pursuit.

832
00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:42,160
Speaker 2: I mean, imagine being the object of Theodore Roosevelt's affections,

833
00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:45,520
Speaker 2: and he determines, I'm gonna marry you. Like that's what

834
00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:48,040
Speaker 2: it was. For two years. He gets a horse and

835
00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:50,480
Speaker 2: he puts a horse in the stable. He rides the

836
00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:54,320
Speaker 2: horse so often he lames the horse because it's twelve

837
00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:57,400
Speaker 2: miles to her home at Chestnut Hill from Cambridge. He

838
00:44:57,440 --> 00:44:59,960
Speaker 2: gets a horse and buggy. Once he lames the other

839
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:02,239
Speaker 2: her original horse, so he can go there. Once he

840
00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:05,800
Speaker 2: breaks the buggy, he walks. He walks over fifty times,

841
00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:09,080
Speaker 2: twelve miles round trip to her house to see Alice.

842
00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:13,799
Speaker 2: He is he's so. He thinks that a fellow classmate,

843
00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:16,279
Speaker 2: Charlie Ware, is trying to make the moves on her,

844
00:45:16,719 --> 00:45:19,239
Speaker 2: so he challenges him to a duel and calls for

845
00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:20,440
Speaker 2: French dueling pistols.

846
00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:24,160
Speaker 1: Really, he yes, I want.

847
00:45:24,040 --> 00:45:27,120
Speaker 2: To see Theeah.

848
00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:31,520
Speaker 1: He was showing up. Yeah for sure, dude, I got

849
00:45:31,560 --> 00:45:33,840
Speaker 1: I want to see the comedian Joey Diaz and uh

850
00:45:34,520 --> 00:45:36,640
Speaker 1: years ago he was talking about how kids got it

851
00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:39,200
Speaker 1: so easy now, like dating is so easy now with

852
00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:41,680
Speaker 1: phones He's like, when I was a kid, if you

853
00:45:41,680 --> 00:45:43,800
Speaker 1: wanted to get your get your you know, get a

854
00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:45,400
Speaker 1: hold of your girlfriend, you had to sneak under a

855
00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:46,799
Speaker 1: window and throw gravel at him.

856
00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:51,680
Speaker 2: That's right. Yeah, Theodore Roosevelt had to walk twelve miles

857
00:45:51,719 --> 00:45:55,400
Speaker 2: round trip to see his girlfriend. So she finally relents.

858
00:45:55,520 --> 00:45:57,680
Speaker 1: She agreed she was being resistant at for her.

859
00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:01,239
Speaker 2: She's the most eligible bachelorette in all of Boston. I mean,

860
00:46:01,239 --> 00:46:03,279
Speaker 2: to set the stage right, she comes from the Lee

861
00:46:03,320 --> 00:46:06,600
Speaker 2: and Saltanstall family. There's this old Boston toast, and this

862
00:46:06,680 --> 00:46:08,680
Speaker 2: is good old Boston, the home of the bean and

863
00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:11,000
Speaker 2: the cod, where the lulls talk only to the cabots

864
00:46:11,239 --> 00:46:15,640
Speaker 2: and the cabots talk only to God. She's a cabot, right,

865
00:46:15,719 --> 00:46:19,920
Speaker 2: So like the geeky naturalist in whose way form meldehydelingers

866
00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:24,879
Speaker 2: going for the most eligible bachelorette in Boston, no way,

867
00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:27,920
Speaker 2: like not gonna happen. And she really, I mean, she

868
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:29,920
Speaker 2: puts him off for two years.

869
00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:31,799
Speaker 1: And her family probably has a big saying this too.

870
00:46:32,239 --> 00:46:35,080
Speaker 2: That's where the sisters come in. That's where her TR's

871
00:46:35,080 --> 00:46:38,160
Speaker 2: mom comes in. He decides, I'm not gonna win her

872
00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:41,279
Speaker 2: unless she falls in love with my family. They have

873
00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:44,200
Speaker 2: to find they have to see that the Roosevelts are

874
00:46:44,200 --> 00:46:48,440
Speaker 2: pretty awesome. So he brings his sisters and his mom

875
00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:51,600
Speaker 2: out to Cambridge, throws a party. They all love each other.

876
00:46:51,880 --> 00:46:54,400
Speaker 2: Then they invite the Lees back to New York. And

877
00:46:54,520 --> 00:46:57,720
Speaker 2: again that's where it turns. She I think that Alice

878
00:46:57,719 --> 00:47:00,799
Speaker 2: Hathaway Lee fell in love with his sisters and his

879
00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:02,920
Speaker 2: mom as much as he did tr the idea of

880
00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:06,960
Speaker 2: being a part of this incredible family. And she's a spitfire.

881
00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:09,800
Speaker 2: I mean, Alice is almost the same height as him,

882
00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:13,920
Speaker 2: very athletic, loves to hike, loves to play tennis, you know,

883
00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:16,640
Speaker 2: like imagining what his life would have been like. And

884
00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:19,720
Speaker 2: in the four years that they're together six years total,

885
00:47:20,360 --> 00:47:23,239
Speaker 2: he writes his first major book, The Naval History of

886
00:47:23,239 --> 00:47:25,759
Speaker 2: the War of eighteen twelve. He's elected to his first

887
00:47:25,760 --> 00:47:29,439
Speaker 2: public office. He goes to but quits Columbia Law school.

888
00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:31,279
Speaker 2: If you've ever quit law school, you have something in

889
00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:35,080
Speaker 2: common with tr He too, did not finish like he

890
00:47:35,239 --> 00:47:37,799
Speaker 2: in his own words, he rose like a rocket, you know.

891
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:41,600
Speaker 2: So there's a lot of historical speculation about what he

892
00:47:41,640 --> 00:47:45,160
Speaker 2: ever been president had his first wife lived and I

893
00:47:45,160 --> 00:47:48,279
Speaker 2: think unquestionably. So here's here's a stunning one.

894
00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:50,520
Speaker 1: Right, Well, I don't get that. I don't get what

895
00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:51,000
Speaker 1: you're saying.

896
00:47:51,160 --> 00:47:55,920
Speaker 2: Well, because she was written off in history as inconsequential

897
00:47:56,280 --> 00:47:59,640
Speaker 2: that the best thing she ever did for tr was die.

898
00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:03,840
Speaker 2: That's really literally been written like that, like she was

899
00:48:04,080 --> 00:48:07,480
Speaker 2: sort of from the elite society. She wouldn't have you know,

900
00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:09,879
Speaker 2: would he have ever gone west? I mean, there's all

901
00:48:09,960 --> 00:48:13,600
Speaker 2: kinds of counterfactuals about what.

902
00:48:13,640 --> 00:48:18,960
Speaker 1: He would have settled into this like patrician, right, right,

903
00:48:18,960 --> 00:48:22,279
Speaker 1: which doesn't it's not a rowboats all time. So I

904
00:48:22,280 --> 00:48:27,080
Speaker 1: mean two facts they do. Yeah, so they are.

905
00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:29,480
Speaker 2: She's expecting their first child when he first comes out

906
00:48:29,480 --> 00:48:32,600
Speaker 2: to the Dakota Badlands. I mean that's that's basically his

907
00:48:32,840 --> 00:48:36,720
Speaker 2: trip before the baby's born. And that's when he invests

908
00:48:36,880 --> 00:48:41,279
Speaker 2: fourteen thousand dollars half of his inheritance in cattle. He

909
00:48:41,360 --> 00:48:44,080
Speaker 2: never owns land because it's open range, but he invests

910
00:48:44,239 --> 00:48:46,480
Speaker 2: a huge amount of money in cattle.

911
00:48:46,520 --> 00:48:49,400
Speaker 1: And then how's that giant? How's that lining up with

912
00:48:49,640 --> 00:48:52,480
Speaker 1: the idea that if she hadn't died, he wouldn't have

913
00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:53,600
Speaker 1: gotten into all this stuff.

914
00:48:53,680 --> 00:48:56,080
Speaker 2: It doesn't, but that is a new take that The

915
00:48:56,360 --> 00:48:59,040
Speaker 2: Loves of Theodore Roosevelt is the first book that really

916
00:48:59,080 --> 00:49:04,160
Speaker 2: says Alice Athaway, Lee made tr part of who he is,

917
00:49:04,719 --> 00:49:07,600
Speaker 2: and you have to in order to appreciate later off.

918
00:49:07,840 --> 00:49:10,960
Speaker 1: Yes, or she's been generally written off historically.

919
00:49:10,560 --> 00:49:14,520
Speaker 2: Yes, very written off. Yes, like didn't matter speed bump

920
00:49:14,560 --> 00:49:17,719
Speaker 2: on the on the road to his inevitable success. I

921
00:49:17,760 --> 00:49:23,279
Speaker 2: think losing her played an incredible role in him understanding

922
00:49:23,880 --> 00:49:28,000
Speaker 2: the fragility of life. That you know, I'm I'm rich,

923
00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:31,960
Speaker 2: and I've been elected to the New York State Assembly,

924
00:49:32,920 --> 00:49:37,400
Speaker 2: and yet you know, my father, my mother, and my

925
00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:41,279
Speaker 2: wife have all died in six years. I that is

926
00:49:41,320 --> 00:49:45,439
Speaker 2: the moment it turns. He's twenty five years old and

927
00:49:45,760 --> 00:49:49,759
Speaker 2: all of a sudden he has a life wish. He

928
00:49:49,880 --> 00:49:53,240
Speaker 2: starts doing things that you might think are.

929
00:49:54,600 --> 00:49:58,680
Speaker 1: Crazy or yeah, I gotta have you back up. Yeah.

930
00:49:58,880 --> 00:50:00,520
Speaker 1: At this point in his life, he's a already done

931
00:50:00,520 --> 00:50:03,040
Speaker 1: all that like Maine stuff, right, yep, Like hunting in

932
00:50:03,080 --> 00:50:03,839
Speaker 1: Maine all the time.

933
00:50:03,960 --> 00:50:06,560
Speaker 2: Yep. So when he when.

934
00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:10,480
Speaker 1: He gets he gets married to Lee, and during that

935
00:50:10,600 --> 00:50:14,840
Speaker 1: marriage he does his big trip out to North Dakota.

936
00:50:14,880 --> 00:50:19,160
Speaker 1: Correct shoots the first buffalo he shoots. Correct, invests in cattle. Yes,

937
00:50:19,239 --> 00:50:23,440
Speaker 1: as like an absentee cattleman. Yes, right, yep, okay, and

938
00:50:23,719 --> 00:50:26,239
Speaker 1: then but line all that up with her death and

939
00:50:26,719 --> 00:50:28,120
Speaker 1: explain how So comes to die.

940
00:50:28,200 --> 00:50:30,200
Speaker 2: Okay, So this is this is an important part of

941
00:50:30,200 --> 00:50:32,239
Speaker 2: the story. I'm glad you asked us to back up.

942
00:50:32,280 --> 00:50:37,480
Speaker 2: So he got engaged on February fourteenth, eighteen eighty, Valentine's Day.

943
00:50:37,960 --> 00:50:42,000
Speaker 2: They announced it to the world. Four years later, they're

944
00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:45,920
Speaker 2: expecting their first child, and Theodore was a he was

945
00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:49,160
Speaker 2: into numerology and things. He's a bit of a super

946
00:50:49,160 --> 00:50:53,680
Speaker 2: he was superstitious, and he so he believed that the

947
00:50:53,719 --> 00:50:55,880
Speaker 2: baby was going to be born on the anniversary of

948
00:50:55,920 --> 00:50:59,520
Speaker 2: their engagement, February fourteenth, Valentine's Day. So he goes back

949
00:50:59,560 --> 00:51:01,680
Speaker 2: to all but where he's a New York State assemblyman

950
00:51:01,719 --> 00:51:05,480
Speaker 2: on February eleventh, and he gets a telegram on February

951
00:51:05,560 --> 00:51:08,800
Speaker 2: twelfth the next day saying the baby has been born

952
00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:11,839
Speaker 2: and Alice is only fairly well, but it's too late

953
00:51:11,880 --> 00:51:14,200
Speaker 2: for him to go, so he makes arrangements to leave

954
00:51:14,800 --> 00:51:18,279
Speaker 2: Albany and return to New York on February thirteenth. He

955
00:51:18,320 --> 00:51:22,360
Speaker 2: gets a second telegram on February thirteenth. We don't know

956
00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:26,280
Speaker 2: what the telegram said, but his face goes ashen white,

957
00:51:26,680 --> 00:51:29,640
Speaker 2: and he drops the telegram and literally runs from the

958
00:51:29,680 --> 00:51:33,360
Speaker 2: New York State Assembly to the train station in Albany.

959
00:51:33,560 --> 00:51:35,360
Speaker 2: Normally this trip would take two to two and a

960
00:51:35,360 --> 00:51:39,120
Speaker 2: half hours. There's a thick, dense fog that is descended

961
00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:41,839
Speaker 2: over New York City, so thick that you cannot get

962
00:51:41,840 --> 00:51:45,320
Speaker 2: a handsome cab from Grand Central Station. It took five

963
00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:48,560
Speaker 2: and a half hours for him to take the trip

964
00:51:48,560 --> 00:51:50,840
Speaker 2: from Albany to New York, all the while not knowing

965
00:51:51,280 --> 00:51:54,920
Speaker 2: what awaits him on the other side. He walks the

966
00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:59,480
Speaker 2: fifteen blocks through this fog to six West fifty seventh Street,

967
00:51:59,640 --> 00:52:02,680
Speaker 2: where he told there is a curse on this house.

968
00:52:02,960 --> 00:52:06,920
Speaker 2: Mother is dying and Alice is dying too. He runs

969
00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:09,760
Speaker 2: up to the third floor. He holds Alice, his wife,

970
00:52:09,880 --> 00:52:13,399
Speaker 2: in his arms, until one thirty in the morning, when

971
00:52:13,440 --> 00:52:16,000
Speaker 2: he's called to the second floor. His whole family is

972
00:52:16,040 --> 00:52:20,319
Speaker 2: there and his mother Midi dies of typhoid fever. He

973
00:52:20,360 --> 00:52:23,279
Speaker 2: goes back up to the third floor, holds Alice in

974
00:52:23,360 --> 00:52:27,000
Speaker 2: his arms for eleven straight hours until two thirty in

975
00:52:27,040 --> 00:52:30,759
Speaker 2: the afternoon. On Valentine's Day, when she too dies of

976
00:52:30,760 --> 00:52:34,600
Speaker 2: Bright's disease, a kidney disorder that was exacerbated by the childbirth,

977
00:52:35,040 --> 00:52:39,680
Speaker 2: he is devastated. He writes an x in his diary

978
00:52:40,200 --> 00:52:42,920
Speaker 2: and says, the light has gone out of my life.

979
00:52:43,000 --> 00:52:46,040
Speaker 2: And the next day he makes plans to not run

980
00:52:46,080 --> 00:52:49,280
Speaker 2: for reelection and to head out to the bad lands

981
00:52:49,280 --> 00:52:53,000
Speaker 2: of North Dakota, where he says to his family, I'm

982
00:52:53,000 --> 00:52:55,400
Speaker 2: going to I'm going to the bad lands. What I

983
00:52:55,440 --> 00:52:56,840
Speaker 2: shall do after that, I do not know.

984
00:52:57,120 --> 00:52:58,520
Speaker 1: And what kid was that?

985
00:52:58,520 --> 00:53:01,879
Speaker 2: That was Alice. They named her after the month. So

986
00:53:01,920 --> 00:53:04,160
Speaker 2: she's the first born and the last to die. She

987
00:53:04,200 --> 00:53:06,360
Speaker 2: was born in eighteen eighty four dies in nineteen eighty

988
00:53:06,760 --> 00:53:10,280
Speaker 2: and she was left in the care of his older sister, Bammy.

989
00:53:10,560 --> 00:53:14,160
Speaker 2: So this is where Bami comes in. Bammy, his older sister,

990
00:53:14,560 --> 00:53:18,920
Speaker 2: is like the political Svengali. She's the one who she

991
00:53:19,120 --> 00:53:22,120
Speaker 2: takes care of the baby for almost three years while

992
00:53:22,120 --> 00:53:25,680
Speaker 2: he's in North Dakota. She's the one that reunites him

993
00:53:25,880 --> 00:53:28,880
Speaker 2: with Edith and ensures he'll get married again. She's the

994
00:53:28,880 --> 00:53:31,600
Speaker 2: one who sells the home at sixth West fifty seventh Street.

995
00:53:31,960 --> 00:53:36,120
Speaker 2: She oversees the construction of Sagamore Hill. It's Bammy that

996
00:53:36,680 --> 00:53:39,160
Speaker 2: arranges for him to have a role in the Harrison

997
00:53:39,200 --> 00:53:43,359
Speaker 2: administration as Civil Service Commissioner. Bammy says, you know, maybe

998
00:53:43,400 --> 00:53:44,600
Speaker 2: it would be a good idea to come back to

999
00:53:44,640 --> 00:53:47,360
Speaker 2: New York and be New York Police Commissioner. Bamy sets

1000
00:53:47,440 --> 00:53:51,000
Speaker 2: up the meeting that leads to him becoming Assistant Secretary

1001
00:53:51,040 --> 00:53:51,520
Speaker 2: of the Navy.

1002
00:53:51,719 --> 00:53:55,000
Speaker 1: I mean it's like in those days, a woman wasn't

1003
00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:57,359
Speaker 1: going to do those roles correct and you had like

1004
00:53:57,560 --> 00:54:00,480
Speaker 1: be like, she's like fronting a guy, yes, because I

1005
00:54:00,520 --> 00:54:00,960
Speaker 1: can't do it.

1006
00:54:01,000 --> 00:54:01,520
Speaker 2: She put it all.

1007
00:54:01,560 --> 00:54:02,480
Speaker 1: I would never be able to do.

1008
00:54:02,440 --> 00:54:05,440
Speaker 2: It all her, all her energy. So think of this.

1009
00:54:05,560 --> 00:54:10,320
Speaker 2: Eleanor Roosevelt said of Theodore Roosevelt's two sisters, Bammy and Connie,

1010
00:54:11,440 --> 00:54:14,200
Speaker 2: if you wanted advice, you went to Bammy. If you

1011
00:54:14,239 --> 00:54:18,239
Speaker 2: wanted sympathy, you went to Connie. Because they were very

1012
00:54:18,239 --> 00:54:21,279
Speaker 2: personality is very, very different. Bammy was the one who,

1013
00:54:21,480 --> 00:54:24,320
Speaker 2: like she saw the political chess board. I mean t

1014
00:54:24,560 --> 00:54:30,360
Speaker 2: R was impetuous, emotional, very intelligent, but he could make missteps.

1015
00:54:30,560 --> 00:54:33,080
Speaker 2: You know, he could kiss people off. Bamy was the

1016
00:54:33,080 --> 00:54:34,759
Speaker 2: one who's like, hey, you know who you need to

1017
00:54:34,760 --> 00:54:37,000
Speaker 2: talk to is this person or that person, or this

1018
00:54:37,080 --> 00:54:39,600
Speaker 2: is the job you need to go into next. She's

1019
00:54:39,640 --> 00:54:43,120
Speaker 2: the strategist, you know, she's the one convincing him. She's

1020
00:54:43,160 --> 00:54:45,680
Speaker 2: convincing the McKinley campaign that he's not a hothead. I mean,

1021
00:54:45,719 --> 00:54:47,600
Speaker 2: they don't want to put him into the role of

1022
00:54:47,640 --> 00:54:52,560
Speaker 2: assistant secretary because of what exactly what happened that as

1023
00:54:52,600 --> 00:54:54,960
Speaker 2: soon as you know that war came, he left and

1024
00:54:55,000 --> 00:54:57,719
Speaker 2: became the hero of the war, you know. I mean,

1025
00:54:57,880 --> 00:55:01,640
Speaker 2: when he's governor of New York, his sister Connie holds

1026
00:55:01,680 --> 00:55:05,799
Speaker 2: these breakfasts and they invite the political bosses in and

1027
00:55:06,440 --> 00:55:08,480
Speaker 2: they they've arranged this in advance, and at some point

1028
00:55:08,560 --> 00:55:09,960
Speaker 2: the boss is going to say, all right, and everyone

1029
00:55:10,000 --> 00:55:11,920
Speaker 2: get out. I want my time with the governor. And

1030
00:55:11,960 --> 00:55:14,879
Speaker 2: they said, well, certainly, my sister can stay. I mean,

1031
00:55:14,880 --> 00:55:16,920
Speaker 2: she she is but a woman, and she takes such

1032
00:55:16,920 --> 00:55:19,759
Speaker 2: an interest in my affairs. And so Connie would knit

1033
00:55:19,960 --> 00:55:23,520
Speaker 2: in the corner, listen to everything that they were talking about.

1034
00:55:23,640 --> 00:55:26,759
Speaker 2: And when they left, tr had somebody'd heard everything and

1035
00:55:26,800 --> 00:55:30,640
Speaker 2: he could talk it all through its move exactly. I mean,

1036
00:55:30,800 --> 00:55:33,840
Speaker 2: so involved was Connie in his governorship that Theodore Roosevelt

1037
00:55:33,840 --> 00:55:37,240
Speaker 2: said to his sister, haven't we had fun being governor

1038
00:55:37,280 --> 00:55:40,600
Speaker 2: of New York? Hmm, man, it's crazy.

1039
00:55:42,360 --> 00:55:46,160
Speaker 3: This is something that's always I mean, it's really this

1040
00:55:46,280 --> 00:55:49,920
Speaker 3: is fascinating because I've always had this curiosity about he's

1041
00:55:50,000 --> 00:55:54,080
Speaker 3: such a headstrong individual and I don't really there's so

1042
00:55:54,200 --> 00:55:56,400
Speaker 3: many aspects of his life where you think this guy's

1043
00:55:56,440 --> 00:55:58,600
Speaker 3: not really thinking beyond what's in front of his face,

1044
00:55:58,640 --> 00:56:01,560
Speaker 3: and he's just like, yeah, yeah, paunching at that whatever

1045
00:56:01,680 --> 00:56:04,080
Speaker 3: is in front of his face. But then this chapter

1046
00:56:04,120 --> 00:56:06,839
Speaker 3: of his life where he rises to the presidency, it's

1047
00:56:06,880 --> 00:56:10,480
Speaker 3: like he he checks all these boxes and rises, you know,

1048
00:56:10,880 --> 00:56:13,560
Speaker 3: like it's it's it seems like a very different mindset

1049
00:56:13,640 --> 00:56:16,200
Speaker 3: is guiding him at that moment, as opposed to the

1050
00:56:16,200 --> 00:56:19,160
Speaker 3: guy who just goes out west to forget about.

1051
00:56:19,400 --> 00:56:22,960
Speaker 2: Randall that the secret sauce is daily and counting. It's

1052
00:56:22,960 --> 00:56:26,319
Speaker 2: his sisters behind the scene saying, hold on, now, now

1053
00:56:26,320 --> 00:56:27,839
Speaker 2: you got to be here, Now you got to be there,

1054
00:56:27,880 --> 00:56:29,200
Speaker 2: Now you got to do this, Now you got to

1055
00:56:29,200 --> 00:56:31,520
Speaker 2: do that, and they support him, and Edith comes back

1056
00:56:31,520 --> 00:56:34,120
Speaker 2: into the picture, so the girlfriend that he broke up

1057
00:56:34,160 --> 00:56:36,800
Speaker 2: with on August twenty second of eighteen seventy eight.

1058
00:56:36,800 --> 00:56:37,960
Speaker 1: After putting the moves on her.

1059
00:56:38,080 --> 00:56:39,440
Speaker 2: Probably we don't know.

1060
00:56:41,160 --> 00:56:42,759
Speaker 3: He no longer smells like formaldehyde.

1061
00:56:42,840 --> 00:56:46,879
Speaker 2: He's yeah, by the way, just because I think you're

1062
00:56:46,880 --> 00:56:49,200
Speaker 2: and your audience will appreciate this. When he marries Alice,

1063
00:56:49,320 --> 00:56:51,200
Speaker 2: the one thing he's not going to be as a naturalist.

1064
00:56:51,239 --> 00:56:53,319
Speaker 2: I mean, she didn't mind that he went hunting and

1065
00:56:53,480 --> 00:56:55,960
Speaker 2: was outdoors. She would go hiking and such with him.

1066
00:56:56,360 --> 00:57:00,200
Speaker 2: But that's when he donates all of his childhood specimens

1067
00:57:00,239 --> 00:57:05,040
Speaker 2: to the Really, yeah, he says, she's so. I can

1068
00:57:05,080 --> 00:57:08,279
Speaker 2: only I can only imagine the conversation be like, hey,

1069
00:57:08,520 --> 00:57:10,760
Speaker 2: you know what's not coming with us to the new house.

1070
00:57:11,320 --> 00:57:17,760
Speaker 2: Do all all the taxidermy's gotta go? But the bison. Interestingly,

1071
00:57:18,280 --> 00:57:21,880
Speaker 2: there's only three photographs of six West fifty seventh Street,

1072
00:57:21,920 --> 00:57:25,360
Speaker 2: which was technically his mother, mother and father's home, but

1073
00:57:25,400 --> 00:57:28,000
Speaker 2: he lived there for a while and that's where the

1074
00:57:28,000 --> 00:57:30,680
Speaker 2: bison ended up. It was you can see it clear

1075
00:57:30,720 --> 00:57:33,360
Speaker 2: as day that that's the bison that he shot in

1076
00:57:33,400 --> 00:57:37,040
Speaker 2: North Dakota, and then it some at some point moves

1077
00:57:37,040 --> 00:57:40,320
Speaker 2: to Sagamore Hill. Had to be bammy. I mean it's

1078
00:57:40,360 --> 00:57:42,160
Speaker 2: in Sagamore Hill to this day.

1079
00:57:42,240 --> 00:57:44,360
Speaker 1: You guys can't get your hands on that one.

1080
00:57:44,480 --> 00:57:47,840
Speaker 2: I you know, I feel like it. Maybe we could

1081
00:57:47,840 --> 00:57:49,240
Speaker 2: for a bit. It would be nice to bring it

1082
00:57:49,280 --> 00:57:51,760
Speaker 2: back home for a for a bit, but.

1083
00:57:51,880 --> 00:57:53,680
Speaker 1: It's such a who's the owner of it?

1084
00:57:53,960 --> 00:57:58,040
Speaker 2: The National Park Service. Yeah, so, short version of a

1085
00:57:58,080 --> 00:58:03,280
Speaker 2: long story. Edith out lives tr by thirty years. Several

1086
00:58:03,320 --> 00:58:05,960
Speaker 2: of her kids have died in World War One in

1087
00:58:06,000 --> 00:58:08,760
Speaker 2: World War Two, and Kermit is dead by that point,

1088
00:58:08,880 --> 00:58:12,000
Speaker 2: so there's only two three if you include Alice or

1089
00:58:12,040 --> 00:58:14,840
Speaker 2: step daughter, and so they convince her.

1090
00:58:14,760 --> 00:58:16,640
Speaker 1: To one dies in the war and then later one

1091
00:58:16,720 --> 00:58:17,400
Speaker 1: kills himself.

1092
00:58:17,600 --> 00:58:19,360
Speaker 2: Yep, Theodore is the only.

1093
00:58:19,280 --> 00:58:21,160
Speaker 1: President I'm talking about tr kids. Yeah.

1094
00:58:21,200 --> 00:58:23,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's the only president to have a son or

1095
00:58:23,120 --> 00:58:25,960
Speaker 2: daughter die in combat. Only president to have a son

1096
00:58:26,000 --> 00:58:28,440
Speaker 2: or daughter die in World War One and World War Two,

1097
00:58:28,680 --> 00:58:32,040
Speaker 2: only one of two fathers and sons to be awarded

1098
00:58:32,040 --> 00:58:34,680
Speaker 2: the Medal of Honor. I mean his like, the record

1099
00:58:34,680 --> 00:58:38,440
Speaker 2: of service and sacrifice in this family is off the charts.

1100
00:58:38,480 --> 00:58:40,560
Speaker 2: And they all did it. Ethel was a part of

1101
00:58:40,600 --> 00:58:43,680
Speaker 2: the American Red Cross. I mean the boys all fought,

1102
00:58:43,800 --> 00:58:47,080
Speaker 2: but the I mean the girls were involved too. Anyway,

1103
00:58:47,160 --> 00:58:49,560
Speaker 2: So they convince Mom Edith were.

1104
00:58:49,480 --> 00:58:51,280
Speaker 1: A long way from that kind of stuff nowadays.

1105
00:58:51,440 --> 00:58:54,080
Speaker 2: I mean, well, and the no blessed oblige, they had

1106
00:58:54,160 --> 00:58:57,919
Speaker 2: an obligation to fight, they actually felt. You know what's

1107
00:58:57,960 --> 00:59:01,240
Speaker 2: interesting about t R's rise back up as a rough

1108
00:59:01,360 --> 00:59:06,280
Speaker 2: rider is it's the first time that the country fights

1109
00:59:06,360 --> 00:59:09,480
Speaker 2: as red, white, and blue again. It's the first major

1110
00:59:09,520 --> 00:59:13,200
Speaker 2: battle after the Civil War. And so you think about, like,

1111
00:59:13,280 --> 00:59:15,520
Speaker 2: how did he I mean, yes, it was heroic, and

1112
00:59:15,560 --> 00:59:19,520
Speaker 2: he became the hero of that story. But he became

1113
00:59:19,600 --> 00:59:22,720
Speaker 2: the hero of the biggest war since the Civil War.

1114
00:59:22,800 --> 00:59:27,360
Speaker 2: He became the symbol of American unity and again has

1115
00:59:27,400 --> 00:59:31,520
Speaker 2: this Northern father, Southern mother, eastern political identity, and western

1116
00:59:31,680 --> 00:59:36,880
Speaker 2: ranch cowboy image. He's like perfect, he's central casting. By

1117
00:59:36,920 --> 00:59:41,600
Speaker 2: the way, the journalist who documents all of TR's exploits

1118
00:59:41,680 --> 00:59:46,800
Speaker 2: in Cuba, Richard Harding Davis, introduced to TR by Bammy.

1119
00:59:47,360 --> 00:59:50,040
Speaker 2: Oh really yep, says you know what would be a

1120
00:59:50,080 --> 00:59:50,959
Speaker 2: good idea is if.

1121
00:59:50,920 --> 00:59:52,520
Speaker 1: Your kid and she's like his pr agent.

1122
00:59:52,640 --> 00:59:55,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and Connie will do the same Connie when

1123
00:59:55,240 --> 00:59:58,440
Speaker 2: he's in the White House. So Edith is very private,

1124
00:59:58,560 --> 01:00:02,320
Speaker 2: you know, she's more circumspance. She's universally known as a

1125
01:00:02,320 --> 01:00:05,240
Speaker 2: better judge of character. He doesn't make a single appointment

1126
01:00:05,320 --> 01:00:08,400
Speaker 2: without talking to Edith. She redesigns the White House, puts

1127
01:00:08,400 --> 01:00:10,800
Speaker 2: her office next to his. I say in The Loves

1128
01:00:10,800 --> 01:00:13,000
Speaker 2: of Theodore Roosevelt that he's in she's in the room

1129
01:00:13,000 --> 01:00:15,360
Speaker 2: where it happened because she designed it that way. So

1130
01:00:15,440 --> 01:00:18,840
Speaker 2: she's involved. But she doesn't love the personal side of

1131
01:00:18,880 --> 01:00:20,840
Speaker 2: politic Actually she doesn't have politics at all. I mean,

1132
01:00:20,840 --> 01:00:22,800
Speaker 2: when it's over, she says, I'm so glad it is

1133
01:00:22,840 --> 01:00:27,520
Speaker 2: all over the presidency. But but Connie knows that if

1134
01:00:27,560 --> 01:00:32,000
Speaker 2: the American public falls in love with Theodore Roosevelt's family,

1135
01:00:32,040 --> 01:00:35,480
Speaker 2: he'll be more successful politically. So she's the one that

1136
01:00:35,560 --> 01:00:40,440
Speaker 2: leaks the stories of Algonquin, the pony coming up to

1137
01:00:40,480 --> 01:00:43,440
Speaker 2: the second floor, the wrestling matches at four o'clock, the

1138
01:00:43,560 --> 01:00:47,360
Speaker 2: jiu jitsu in boxing in the White House. You know,

1139
01:00:47,440 --> 01:00:49,880
Speaker 2: she's the one she eat this. Oh yeah, they're gonna

1140
01:00:49,920 --> 01:00:52,160
Speaker 2: love it. I mean, it makes him personable. It's like

1141
01:00:52,200 --> 01:00:55,800
Speaker 2: a crazy menagerie of a zoo and this big family

1142
01:00:55,840 --> 01:00:59,000
Speaker 2: and it. They're fun and they're active and they're adventuresome.

1143
01:00:59,160 --> 01:01:01,560
Speaker 2: And she knows, I mean, she's the one that leaks

1144
01:01:01,600 --> 01:01:05,480
Speaker 2: the story about Emily the snake. You know, Alice the

1145
01:01:05,560 --> 01:01:09,480
Speaker 2: daughter famously wears a green snake around her neck, and

1146
01:01:09,520 --> 01:01:12,200
Speaker 2: when they ask what's with the snake, she says, well,

1147
01:01:12,200 --> 01:01:15,520
Speaker 2: this is Emily Spinach. And they said, well, who's Emily Spinach?

1148
01:01:15,520 --> 01:01:17,200
Speaker 2: She said, well, I don't like my aunt Emily, and

1149
01:01:17,200 --> 01:01:19,240
Speaker 2: I don't like Spinach, so it's Emily Spinach.

1150
01:01:20,800 --> 01:01:22,680
Speaker 1: So you were saying that Edith winds up being a

1151
01:01:22,720 --> 01:01:23,560
Speaker 1: good judge of character.

1152
01:01:23,760 --> 01:01:27,360
Speaker 2: She a better judge of character than Trundred percent. He's

1153
01:01:27,600 --> 01:01:30,880
Speaker 2: exactly as Randall said, like, if he has a fault,

1154
01:01:31,000 --> 01:01:35,160
Speaker 2: it's that he's what serves him so well. His instincts

1155
01:01:35,520 --> 01:01:38,240
Speaker 2: can turn on him and not serve him well in

1156
01:01:38,320 --> 01:01:42,720
Speaker 2: a political arena because he's very trusting of people. He

1157
01:01:42,920 --> 01:01:46,880
Speaker 2: likes everyone. He generally feels that people have good motives,

1158
01:01:47,360 --> 01:01:52,800
Speaker 2: and he he's impetuous. He makes quick decisions and doesn't

1159
01:01:52,840 --> 01:01:57,080
Speaker 2: think about necessarily the consequence. Edith is the opposite, right,

1160
01:01:57,160 --> 01:02:02,919
Speaker 2: She's slow, she's plotting, she's calculating. She's I like she's

1161
01:02:02,960 --> 01:02:06,720
Speaker 2: described as parched. He has a he has a valet.

1162
01:02:06,840 --> 01:02:09,240
Speaker 2: I know, well, these the best the people that quotes

1163
01:02:09,360 --> 01:02:15,040
Speaker 2: that people really love is she she describes she describes

1164
01:02:15,040 --> 01:02:18,160
Speaker 2: her grandchildren. She says, I love to see their little faces,

1165
01:02:18,160 --> 01:02:19,600
Speaker 2: but I prefer to see their backs.

1166
01:02:21,560 --> 01:02:23,120
Speaker 1: You know, I don't know why I make think of this.

1167
01:02:23,240 --> 01:02:25,959
Speaker 1: I'm talking about like your someone's wife as a judge

1168
01:02:25,960 --> 01:02:30,000
Speaker 1: of character. Uh. Years ago, I used to hang out

1169
01:02:30,000 --> 01:02:31,880
Speaker 1: a lot of Like I used to hang out with

1170
01:02:31,880 --> 01:02:34,640
Speaker 1: more writers than I do now. Yeah, like, I used

1171
01:02:34,680 --> 01:02:38,120
Speaker 1: to hang out all writers almost And uh, one time,

1172
01:02:38,200 --> 01:02:40,040
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna say his name, but I had a

1173
01:02:40,080 --> 01:02:42,920
Speaker 1: certain writer over my house and we're had dinner together

1174
01:02:43,080 --> 01:02:45,200
Speaker 1: and he leaves. My wife's like, that guy's never come

1175
01:02:45,240 --> 01:02:47,600
Speaker 1: back in this house again. And I kind of sat

1176
01:02:47,640 --> 01:02:50,680
Speaker 1: on that forever. And there day I told a mutual

1177
01:02:50,760 --> 01:02:54,520
Speaker 1: friend that story, and I told my wife, you know,

1178
01:02:54,520 --> 01:02:57,400
Speaker 1: I was telling him about what you said about his buddy.

1179
01:02:58,320 --> 01:03:02,480
Speaker 1: She's just not happy that us share.

1180
01:03:03,520 --> 01:03:06,800
Speaker 2: But maybe she was right. I found coming that story

1181
01:03:06,960 --> 01:03:08,280
Speaker 2: was going to be in vincation.

1182
01:03:10,240 --> 01:03:12,560
Speaker 1: That's the only time, dude, we've had some crazy people

1183
01:03:12,560 --> 01:03:15,120
Speaker 1: over our house, you know, all the time she's ever

1184
01:03:15,200 --> 01:03:18,760
Speaker 1: said no, no, well that's kind I don't care what

1185
01:03:18,840 --> 01:03:19,160
Speaker 1: you're right.

1186
01:03:19,600 --> 01:03:21,920
Speaker 2: Kind of the dynamic with Edith and tr like, she

1187
01:03:21,960 --> 01:03:24,560
Speaker 2: gave him a long leash, but when she pulled it

1188
01:03:24,600 --> 01:03:27,440
Speaker 2: in she was serious, right, Like it was like, hey, this,

1189
01:03:27,800 --> 01:03:31,200
Speaker 2: I'm not kidding about this one. For example, nineteen twelve,

1190
01:03:31,680 --> 01:03:35,120
Speaker 2: he's contemplating running for president again. He's constitutionally able to,

1191
01:03:35,720 --> 01:03:39,440
Speaker 2: and he's pissed that he gave the reins to William

1192
01:03:39,440 --> 01:03:42,320
Speaker 2: Howard Taft. Everybody's like, oh, tr you gotta do it,

1193
01:03:42,320 --> 01:03:43,640
Speaker 2: you gotta do it, you gotta do it. You're gonna win.

1194
01:03:43,760 --> 01:03:46,680
Speaker 1: You got to do that again for people that don't

1195
01:03:46,720 --> 01:03:47,600
Speaker 1: know this whole history.

1196
01:03:48,200 --> 01:03:52,920
Speaker 2: So Theodore Roosevelt in nineteen oh four, when he wins

1197
01:03:53,080 --> 01:03:55,600
Speaker 2: election in his own right, makes one of the biggest

1198
01:03:55,600 --> 01:03:58,520
Speaker 2: political Okay, well you want to back up.

1199
01:03:58,480 --> 01:04:02,920
Speaker 1: There so you don't get bored. McKinley dies and and

1200
01:04:03,040 --> 01:04:05,680
Speaker 1: Roosevelt comes into office off the like that he's the

1201
01:04:05,720 --> 01:04:08,840
Speaker 1: vice president. Yep, and the unexpectedly boom, there he is

1202
01:04:08,960 --> 01:04:11,080
Speaker 1: and says, he turns around and earns it on his

1203
01:04:11,120 --> 01:04:11,600
Speaker 1: own Yep.

1204
01:04:11,640 --> 01:04:13,800
Speaker 2: He wins elected office in his own right, which was

1205
01:04:13,840 --> 01:04:15,600
Speaker 2: his goal. I mean, he really felt like he was

1206
01:04:15,640 --> 01:04:18,080
Speaker 2: walking in a dead man's shoes. Sure, and he made

1207
01:04:18,080 --> 01:04:20,760
Speaker 2: a lot of change, and that was very risky. He

1208
01:04:20,800 --> 01:04:22,680
Speaker 2: was convinced he was going to lose. It turns out

1209
01:04:22,680 --> 01:04:24,920
Speaker 2: to be a route one of the biggest political victories

1210
01:04:24,960 --> 01:04:26,720
Speaker 2: in US history in nineteen oh fourth.

1211
01:04:26,800 --> 01:04:29,720
Speaker 1: The same for Johnson, right, Like Johnson comes in yep, yeah.

1212
01:04:29,600 --> 01:04:32,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly exactly. I mean, so he comes in with

1213
01:04:33,000 --> 01:04:36,400
Speaker 2: the he's got the wind at his back, and he's

1214
01:04:36,400 --> 01:04:40,200
Speaker 2: not restricted to two terms, and technically he's picked up

1215
01:04:40,280 --> 01:04:42,320
Speaker 2: part of the term of another president.

1216
01:04:42,720 --> 01:04:46,680
Speaker 1: So because because that wasn't it wasn't wasn't codified yet. No,

1217
01:04:46,960 --> 01:04:50,040
Speaker 1: it was a tradition, but it wasn't exactly So like

1218
01:04:50,160 --> 01:04:54,600
Speaker 1: FDR did three, So without consulting his wife, Edith, who's

1219
01:04:54,640 --> 01:04:57,640
Speaker 1: in the room, far three, FDR did four.

1220
01:04:57,720 --> 01:05:00,160
Speaker 2: But he died very early into his fourth term. So

1221
01:05:00,200 --> 01:05:03,560
Speaker 2: he won four. Yeah, FDR overlearned the lesson that t

1222
01:05:03,760 --> 01:05:09,320
Speaker 2: R didn't learn. He made up for for his his

1223
01:05:09,440 --> 01:05:11,000
Speaker 2: distant cousin's deficiency.

1224
01:05:11,040 --> 01:05:13,560
Speaker 1: He's not bound by turn bound, but he's got like

1225
01:05:13,600 --> 01:05:17,480
Speaker 1: a term limit under mckintle. He's got McKie and a

1226
01:05:17,520 --> 01:05:18,880
Speaker 1: half years does his own term.

1227
01:05:19,120 --> 01:05:21,080
Speaker 2: So he's been president. He's going to be president for

1228
01:05:21,120 --> 01:05:22,760
Speaker 2: seven and a half years. Been close than to two

1229
01:05:22,760 --> 01:05:26,520
Speaker 2: fold turn violated the norms to he would have been

1230
01:05:26,560 --> 01:05:29,960
Speaker 2: the first president to run for a third term, and

1231
01:05:30,440 --> 01:05:31,160
Speaker 2: but he almost he.

1232
01:05:31,120 --> 01:05:34,160
Speaker 3: Could sort of say I didn't have a full first term.

1233
01:05:34,400 --> 01:05:37,959
Speaker 2: Absolutely yeah, yeah, and everybody thought he would. He gets

1234
01:05:38,040 --> 01:05:41,400
Speaker 2: up on election night and announces I will not stand

1235
01:05:41,440 --> 01:05:44,400
Speaker 2: for election in nineteen oh eight. He makes himself a

1236
01:05:44,480 --> 01:05:48,520
Speaker 2: lame duck. I mean, every and Edith was seen to WinCE,

1237
01:05:49,120 --> 01:05:51,479
Speaker 2: and Bammy was like, you got to take it back.

1238
01:05:51,600 --> 01:05:52,920
Speaker 2: I mean, you got to you got to say you

1239
01:05:53,120 --> 01:05:55,680
Speaker 2: that's not true, that you maybe you will, maybe you won't.

1240
01:05:56,400 --> 01:05:59,040
Speaker 2: What year did he make that announcement the election night

1241
01:05:59,160 --> 01:06:00,120
Speaker 2: nineteen oh four.

1242
01:06:00,200 --> 01:06:03,720
Speaker 1: So nineteen oh four, he says in eight, this will

1243
01:06:03,760 --> 01:06:06,720
Speaker 1: be my last, the same thing kind of well, and

1244
01:06:06,760 --> 01:06:09,800
Speaker 1: how'd that work out? Well? He tried again, and did.

1245
01:06:09,680 --> 01:06:12,280
Speaker 2: That work out? I mean, you know, you generally don't

1246
01:06:12,280 --> 01:06:14,800
Speaker 2: make pronouncements that you're not going to. I mean, I

1247
01:06:14,840 --> 01:06:18,240
Speaker 2: think the thing about tr is he says what he means,

1248
01:06:18,280 --> 01:06:19,240
Speaker 2: and he means what he says.

1249
01:06:19,840 --> 01:06:20,040
Speaker 1: Right.

1250
01:06:20,120 --> 01:06:23,640
Speaker 2: He's a straight shooter, and so he's he's he's observing

1251
01:06:23,640 --> 01:06:27,280
Speaker 2: the tradition. His heroes are Washington and Lincoln. I mean,

1252
01:06:27,320 --> 01:06:30,760
Speaker 2: he recalls as a child watching Lincoln's funeral in New York,

1253
01:06:30,880 --> 01:06:33,640
Speaker 2: like he wants to emulate. Does he know what he's.

1254
01:06:33,480 --> 01:06:35,360
Speaker 1: Going on that big ass Africa hunting trip.

1255
01:06:36,000 --> 01:06:39,240
Speaker 2: Well he he did that too, that's true.

1256
01:06:39,440 --> 01:06:40,440
Speaker 1: And let me tell you why.

1257
01:06:40,560 --> 01:06:44,520
Speaker 2: He's pretty pretty excited about that. Yeah. Yes, So he

1258
01:06:44,560 --> 01:06:47,200
Speaker 2: says he's not going to run for reelection. All of

1259
01:06:47,200 --> 01:06:49,920
Speaker 2: the women in his life say, this is a disastrous decision.

1260
01:06:49,920 --> 01:06:50,240
Speaker 1: And it was.

1261
01:06:50,320 --> 01:06:52,640
Speaker 2: So it was the worst political decision he made in

1262
01:06:52,640 --> 01:06:56,880
Speaker 2: his life because he regretted it on because he was

1263
01:06:56,920 --> 01:06:59,640
Speaker 2: a reformer. He was a progressive. And I don't mean

1264
01:07:00,360 --> 01:07:03,760
Speaker 2: in the sense of politics. I mean he was outside

1265
01:07:03,800 --> 01:07:06,880
Speaker 2: the system, right. He was pushing change, and he was

1266
01:07:06,960 --> 01:07:10,640
Speaker 2: pushing the boundaries of what was and what could be.

1267
01:07:10,840 --> 01:07:15,000
Speaker 2: I mean he he so once an agitator is out,

1268
01:07:15,680 --> 01:07:18,960
Speaker 2: they never letting him back in. I mean, Edith knew this,

1269
01:07:19,080 --> 01:07:22,720
Speaker 2: Bammy knew this. Like once you give up power voluntarily,

1270
01:07:23,040 --> 01:07:26,000
Speaker 2: you are never going to get it back. So he

1271
01:07:26,080 --> 01:07:28,680
Speaker 2: sits by. He goes on the African Safari for over

1272
01:07:28,720 --> 01:07:32,560
Speaker 2: a year. He's getting reports about what's happening back home.

1273
01:07:32,720 --> 01:07:34,880
Speaker 2: They're not following your agenda. One of the big things

1274
01:07:35,000 --> 01:07:35,680
Speaker 2: was conservation.

1275
01:07:35,880 --> 01:07:41,520
Speaker 1: Did he did he pick Was he successful in picking

1276
01:07:41,560 --> 01:07:42,240
Speaker 1: his successor?

1277
01:07:42,360 --> 01:07:42,640
Speaker 2: Yes?

1278
01:07:42,960 --> 01:07:46,520
Speaker 1: Okay, so he hand hand picked indorsed and that carried

1279
01:07:46,520 --> 01:07:47,000
Speaker 1: the weight.

1280
01:07:47,880 --> 01:07:49,960
Speaker 2: It, yes, and it was an odd pick, so he

1281
01:07:50,080 --> 01:07:53,560
Speaker 2: could have won absolutely. I mean, it's not even an

1282
01:07:53,840 --> 01:07:57,400
Speaker 2: entertaining counterfactual, like if Theodore Roosevelt had run in nineteen

1283
01:07:57,440 --> 01:08:01,959
Speaker 2: oh eight, he wins, he wins better. Taffy Taft, Oh boy,

1284
01:08:02,080 --> 01:08:05,959
Speaker 2: so not a name Brandy, Yeah, no, I mean he

1285
01:08:06,120 --> 01:08:08,120
Speaker 2: was he against William Jennings Bryan. I'm trying to remember

1286
01:08:08,120 --> 01:08:13,880
Speaker 2: if Brian anyway? He no, No, it wasn't close, and

1287
01:08:14,480 --> 01:08:18,240
Speaker 2: tr regrets it. So fast forward. One of the issues

1288
01:08:18,280 --> 01:08:22,240
Speaker 2: being conservation, right he Taft doesn't do anything on conservation.

1289
01:08:22,400 --> 01:08:25,280
Speaker 2: He decides, like, what are we doing this for? We're

1290
01:08:25,800 --> 01:08:29,240
Speaker 2: I mean, he undos a bunch of some of the

1291
01:08:29,240 --> 01:08:31,479
Speaker 2: things that TR's record includes in the two hundred and

1292
01:08:31,520 --> 01:08:33,960
Speaker 2: thirty four million acres part of them we're coal reserves.

1293
01:08:34,000 --> 01:08:35,959
Speaker 2: He says, we're not going to keep the coal reserves.

1294
01:08:36,080 --> 01:08:38,559
Speaker 2: We're going to use him right now. And I mean,

1295
01:08:38,600 --> 01:08:43,759
Speaker 2: so these things start being undone immediately, and they irritate TR.

1296
01:08:44,160 --> 01:08:46,519
Speaker 2: He comes back and there's a whole group of people saying,

1297
01:08:46,720 --> 01:08:50,680
Speaker 2: you know, progressive governor saying you should run. Edith is

1298
01:08:50,720 --> 01:08:52,880
Speaker 2: the only one who comes to him and says, put

1299
01:08:52,880 --> 01:08:55,360
Speaker 2: it out of your mind, Theodore, you will never be

1300
01:08:55,479 --> 01:08:59,120
Speaker 2: president of the United States again. Ouch. I mean, but

1301
01:08:59,400 --> 01:09:03,080
Speaker 2: she he saw it, She saw the chessboard, she saw.

1302
01:09:02,920 --> 01:09:04,719
Speaker 1: The political because the way the machine works.

1303
01:09:04,840 --> 01:09:06,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, they weren't going to let him back. I mean,

1304
01:09:06,600 --> 01:09:08,599
Speaker 2: they weren't going to chance the two parties. The sitting

1305
01:09:08,640 --> 01:09:10,680
Speaker 2: president was going to just step aside, and you were

1306
01:09:10,680 --> 01:09:13,719
Speaker 2: going to get the Republican nomination again. So he runs

1307
01:09:13,920 --> 01:09:17,599
Speaker 2: a primary campaign. He is the first. If you don't

1308
01:09:17,680 --> 01:09:20,320
Speaker 2: like primaries, you got another thing to blame tr for

1309
01:09:20,800 --> 01:09:23,760
Speaker 2: because he invents them. He says, let the people rule.

1310
01:09:24,200 --> 01:09:26,040
Speaker 2: I know the political system won't give it to me.

1311
01:09:26,120 --> 01:09:28,000
Speaker 2: So I'm going to go out to the people. And

1312
01:09:28,040 --> 01:09:32,599
Speaker 2: he starts campaigning, and he wins enough delegates to have

1313
01:09:32,840 --> 01:09:37,080
Speaker 2: the nomination, the Republican nomination. They get to the convention

1314
01:09:37,479 --> 01:09:40,839
Speaker 2: and just as Edith predicted, they deny him the nomination.

1315
01:09:41,080 --> 01:09:42,000
Speaker 2: They give it to Taft.

1316
01:09:42,160 --> 01:09:47,479
Speaker 1: He challenges his own hand picked guy, correct, yes in

1317
01:09:47,520 --> 01:09:50,360
Speaker 1: a primary thing, Yes, beats him in a primary.

1318
01:09:50,680 --> 01:09:50,960
Speaker 2: Yes.

1319
01:09:51,080 --> 01:09:53,240
Speaker 1: So here he is campaigning against the guy like he

1320
01:09:53,280 --> 01:09:54,080
Speaker 1: hasn't followed through.

1321
01:09:53,960 --> 01:09:55,840
Speaker 2: My which has never been done in history, right, so

1322
01:09:55,920 --> 01:09:58,160
Speaker 2: this is very unusual. This is strange.

1323
01:09:58,200 --> 01:10:01,479
Speaker 1: But then the conventioneer's revolt and handed to the sitting down.

1324
01:10:01,640 --> 01:10:05,040
Speaker 2: And part of the problem, not to get to arcane,

1325
01:10:05,200 --> 01:10:08,800
Speaker 2: is that there are other candidates running in the primary.

1326
01:10:09,240 --> 01:10:13,439
Speaker 2: There's fighting Bob LaFollette from Wisconsin, who's more progressive than

1327
01:10:13,640 --> 01:10:17,960
Speaker 2: tr and so the decision is, like Theodore Roosevelt doesn't

1328
01:10:18,000 --> 01:10:21,800
Speaker 2: win the state of North Dakota in the nineteen twelve primary,

1329
01:10:21,840 --> 01:10:24,960
Speaker 2: you know he like so his strength is in the

1330
01:10:25,000 --> 01:10:29,120
Speaker 2: West and in the battlegrounds of the east. And you know,

1331
01:10:29,160 --> 01:10:32,599
Speaker 2: the battlegrounds are New York, right, It's hard to imagine today,

1332
01:10:32,680 --> 01:10:37,840
Speaker 2: but that's the battleground He never won another Southern state

1333
01:10:38,360 --> 01:10:42,160
Speaker 2: in his political career. After having Booker T. Washington to

1334
01:10:42,200 --> 01:10:45,360
Speaker 2: the White House, he was the first yes, yep, he's

1335
01:10:45,400 --> 01:10:47,400
Speaker 2: a first president to have a black man dine at

1336
01:10:47,400 --> 01:10:50,360
Speaker 2: the White House, there were threats on his life. There

1337
01:10:50,360 --> 01:10:53,280
Speaker 2: was a senator who said nothing bad would have happened

1338
01:10:53,320 --> 01:10:55,120
Speaker 2: if a bomb would have gone off under the table,

1339
01:10:55,320 --> 01:10:58,479
Speaker 2: killed the President and killed Booker T. Washington. There was

1340
01:10:58,520 --> 01:11:00,479
Speaker 2: a fight that broke out in the Senate or when

1341
01:11:00,600 --> 01:11:04,879
Speaker 2: that senator made those remarks, tr banned that Senator, Senator Tillman,

1342
01:11:05,000 --> 01:11:08,639
Speaker 2: of a racist from the South, from ever coming back

1343
01:11:08,680 --> 01:11:11,000
Speaker 2: in the White House again while he was president. I mean,

1344
01:11:11,080 --> 01:11:13,000
Speaker 2: you know, so when I talk about political violence like

1345
01:11:13,160 --> 01:11:16,160
Speaker 2: it was real at the time. And so tr knew

1346
01:11:16,200 --> 01:11:18,680
Speaker 2: he couldn't win the South. He had to win a

1347
01:11:18,680 --> 01:11:23,000
Speaker 2: combination of the East and the West. And so then

1348
01:11:23,040 --> 01:11:28,000
Speaker 2: he is the first president to embrace suffrage. He makes

1349
01:11:28,000 --> 01:11:30,680
Speaker 2: suffrage a part of his nineteen twelve platform. I was

1350
01:11:30,720 --> 01:11:34,120
Speaker 2: going to mention it earlier, just quickly rewinding. One of

1351
01:11:34,160 --> 01:11:38,879
Speaker 2: the biggest influences Alice had is his senior thesis in college.

1352
01:11:39,240 --> 01:11:42,280
Speaker 2: So Theodore Roosevelt writes a senior thesis when he's graduating.

1353
01:11:42,680 --> 01:11:46,799
Speaker 2: He endorses suffrage. He endorses a woman's right to own property.

1354
01:11:47,040 --> 01:11:49,839
Speaker 2: He endorses the idea that women could be doctors, lawyers,

1355
01:11:49,840 --> 01:11:53,000
Speaker 2: and judges. He says women shouldn't necessarily take their husband's

1356
01:11:53,080 --> 01:11:56,320
Speaker 2: name upon marriage. That should be their choice. Very progressive

1357
01:11:56,360 --> 01:11:59,760
Speaker 2: for eighteen eighty. That's all Alice. And then when she

1358
01:12:00,040 --> 01:12:01,519
Speaker 2: eyes that kind of that light is.

1359
01:12:01,600 --> 01:12:05,840
Speaker 1: What's my next paragraph?

1360
01:12:07,240 --> 01:12:10,400
Speaker 2: Right? I could keep some of the taxidermy. It's like

1361
01:12:10,680 --> 01:12:16,080
Speaker 2: maybe my favorites and keep the bison, right, huh. Anyway,

1362
01:12:16,160 --> 01:12:17,839
Speaker 2: so he's just very progressive platform.

1363
01:12:18,120 --> 01:12:20,240
Speaker 1: They pass when they pass and by and give it

1364
01:12:20,280 --> 01:12:21,000
Speaker 1: back to Taft.

1365
01:12:21,160 --> 01:12:21,840
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1366
01:12:21,920 --> 01:12:25,680
Speaker 1: He then says screw y'all, yes, and does his independent

1367
01:12:25,720 --> 01:12:27,280
Speaker 1: bid the bull Moose party and all that.

1368
01:12:27,360 --> 01:12:32,160
Speaker 2: Yes. So here's the key moment. Right, so Edith has said,

1369
01:12:32,360 --> 01:12:34,760
Speaker 2: no way, this is not going to happen. They go

1370
01:12:34,840 --> 01:12:37,919
Speaker 2: out for a horseback ride in Oyster Bay. A car

1371
01:12:38,280 --> 01:12:40,720
Speaker 2: starts and startles her horse. And she was a very

1372
01:12:40,720 --> 01:12:43,000
Speaker 2: accomplished horsewoman. I mean she she was a good rider.

1373
01:12:43,680 --> 01:12:48,280
Speaker 2: She gets bucked from the horse. She lands on her head, unconscious.

1374
01:12:48,360 --> 01:12:50,320
Speaker 2: I mean she has undoubtedly what today would be a

1375
01:12:50,320 --> 01:12:55,280
Speaker 2: traumatic brain injury. She's out cold for several days. Yes. Yes,

1376
01:12:56,400 --> 01:13:01,040
Speaker 2: that is when Connie and Bammy work with seven progressive

1377
01:13:01,080 --> 01:13:04,639
Speaker 2: governors to publish a letter that encourages TR to run

1378
01:13:04,680 --> 01:13:09,719
Speaker 2: as an independent as a bull Moose, and t R says,

1379
01:13:10,520 --> 01:13:12,720
Speaker 2: I'll throw my hat in the ring. My hat is

1380
01:13:12,720 --> 01:13:13,120
Speaker 2: in the ring.

1381
01:13:16,880 --> 01:13:21,960
Speaker 3: This is when I miss, you're signed off on this.

1382
01:13:22,160 --> 01:13:26,080
Speaker 2: Right before the horse right, you were saying something is

1383
01:13:26,120 --> 01:13:28,639
Speaker 2: the horse was bucking you off. I think it was run.

1384
01:13:29,000 --> 01:13:31,320
Speaker 2: I think it was run. That's what I heard. I

1385
01:13:31,320 --> 01:13:34,519
Speaker 2: heard Run Run is an independent. That's what I heard.

1386
01:13:34,840 --> 01:13:36,759
Speaker 2: It's too good to be true. That tells you anything

1387
01:13:36,760 --> 01:13:38,600
Speaker 2: about their dynamic that he had to wait till she

1388
01:13:38,680 --> 01:13:40,840
Speaker 2: was out cold to make the decision to run as

1389
01:13:40,880 --> 01:13:44,320
Speaker 2: a bull moose progressive. She's so pissed that she gets

1390
01:13:44,400 --> 01:13:48,240
Speaker 2: on a trip to uh the Caribbean with her daughter

1391
01:13:48,280 --> 01:13:51,960
Speaker 2: Ethel and there's reporters gathered where they're bringing on their

1392
01:13:52,040 --> 01:13:54,920
Speaker 2: luggage and they say, you know, reporter says, you know,

1393
01:13:55,080 --> 01:13:57,880
Speaker 2: is is the president with you? No, he's not coming

1394
01:13:57,920 --> 01:14:00,280
Speaker 2: on this journey. You know, is that a Is that

1395
01:14:00,320 --> 01:14:02,439
Speaker 2: a hat box? And they say, yes, that's a hat box.

1396
01:14:02,439 --> 01:14:05,040
Speaker 2: They said, is that hat going in the ring? And

1397
01:14:05,080 --> 01:14:07,000
Speaker 2: she says, no, we left that one at home too.

1398
01:14:09,560 --> 01:14:12,920
Speaker 2: He said, I throw my hat in the ring. So

1399
01:14:12,960 --> 01:14:16,000
Speaker 2: they're basically saying, like, you know that one, you want

1400
01:14:16,000 --> 01:14:19,479
Speaker 2: to go go talk to Teddy about hats in the rings.

1401
01:14:19,560 --> 01:14:22,360
Speaker 2: We're going to go to the Caribbean and cool off.

1402
01:14:21,600 --> 01:14:25,719
Speaker 2: She was not happy, and she was and she eventually

1403
01:14:25,720 --> 01:14:28,599
Speaker 2: came around. I mean they all came around and helped him,

1404
01:14:28,800 --> 01:14:31,400
Speaker 2: and you know, then you have the assassination attempt, and

1405
01:14:31,439 --> 01:14:34,160
Speaker 2: for a brief moment it kind of looks like Holy cow,

1406
01:14:34,200 --> 01:14:37,320
Speaker 2: because he I mean, the man knew how to create

1407
01:14:37,360 --> 01:14:40,479
Speaker 2: a moment. He knew how to create a spectacle. And

1408
01:14:40,520 --> 01:14:45,080
Speaker 2: so he is shot. He delivers the speech for over

1409
01:14:45,160 --> 01:14:48,400
Speaker 2: an hour. He begins by saying, I don't know if

1410
01:14:48,400 --> 01:14:51,040
Speaker 2: you know, but I have just been shot, and opens

1411
01:14:51,080 --> 01:14:54,439
Speaker 2: his coat and it is caked in blood. I mean,

1412
01:14:55,800 --> 01:14:57,800
Speaker 2: to this day, when you see the shirt at the

1413
01:14:57,800 --> 01:15:01,000
Speaker 2: Theodre Roosevelt Presidential Library, like the outline of the blood.

1414
01:15:01,120 --> 01:15:04,960
Speaker 2: He was bleeding, but he coughed into a you know,

1415
01:15:04,960 --> 01:15:06,680
Speaker 2: he coughed and he didn't have any blood coming out

1416
01:15:06,680 --> 01:15:08,240
Speaker 2: of his lungs. So he said, you know, I'm going

1417
01:15:08,280 --> 01:15:11,200
Speaker 2: on stage, and they were like, this is you gotta

1418
01:15:11,280 --> 01:15:13,600
Speaker 2: get off stage. I mean several times they tried to

1419
01:15:13,640 --> 01:15:15,520
Speaker 2: interrupt him and get him to the hospital.

1420
01:15:15,720 --> 01:15:19,280
Speaker 1: People thought that that the fist pump after Trump got

1421
01:15:19,360 --> 01:15:20,920
Speaker 1: shot through the ear was bad ass.

1422
01:15:20,960 --> 01:15:25,320
Speaker 2: This is this is that nineteen And then he's giving

1423
01:15:25,360 --> 01:15:28,640
Speaker 2: the speech still and he says and he says, you know,

1424
01:15:28,760 --> 01:15:31,360
Speaker 2: the thing that killed all these prior presidents who got

1425
01:15:31,360 --> 01:15:33,720
Speaker 2: shot was not the bullet. It was the surgery. It

1426
01:15:33,800 --> 01:15:36,280
Speaker 2: was the exploration looking for the you know, then they

1427
01:15:36,320 --> 01:15:39,559
Speaker 2: get gangreen or they get right. So he's like, leave

1428
01:15:39,600 --> 01:15:41,800
Speaker 2: it in there. It's fine. If it didn't kill me,

1429
01:15:41,920 --> 01:15:45,160
Speaker 2: it ain't gonna kill me. And so he doesn't have surgery.

1430
01:15:45,640 --> 01:15:48,519
Speaker 2: And two weeks later he gives a big speech at

1431
01:15:48,560 --> 01:15:52,280
Speaker 2: Madison Square Garden and it's like, oh my god, he's

1432
01:15:52,320 --> 01:15:54,200
Speaker 2: going to win. You know, he could, he could do it.

1433
01:15:54,560 --> 01:15:56,960
Speaker 2: And there's like a brief flicker of hope. But they

1434
01:15:56,960 --> 01:15:59,960
Speaker 2: split the vote, you know, taft In Roosevelt split the vote.

1435
01:16:00,560 --> 01:16:03,439
Speaker 2: Woodrow Wilson, the Democrat, is elected. I mean, you think

1436
01:16:03,439 --> 01:16:07,679
Speaker 2: if he, if tr is elected in nineteen twelve, there's

1437
01:16:07,720 --> 01:16:11,719
Speaker 2: a decent chance the United States does not get into

1438
01:16:11,720 --> 01:16:14,920
Speaker 2: World War One. I mean, he knew all of the

1439
01:16:15,000 --> 01:16:17,439
Speaker 2: leaders of all the countries that eventually got into World

1440
01:16:17,479 --> 01:16:17,920
Speaker 2: War One.

1441
01:16:18,720 --> 01:16:20,840
Speaker 1: God imagine too, that we wouldn't be stuck in this

1442
01:16:20,880 --> 01:16:23,080
Speaker 1: bullshit two party system that we had lived under.

1443
01:16:23,200 --> 01:16:26,960
Speaker 2: Yep, he would. I mean he's the most successful third

1444
01:16:26,960 --> 01:16:29,479
Speaker 2: party candidate in US history.

1445
01:16:30,520 --> 01:16:32,559
Speaker 1: Yeah, imagine if that had happened and you wouldn't have

1446
01:16:32,600 --> 01:16:35,720
Speaker 1: to do this dumb thing that we have to do.

1447
01:16:35,880 --> 01:16:38,640
Speaker 2: Well, it's another reason I think he's popular across the

1448
01:16:38,680 --> 01:16:42,400
Speaker 2: political spectrum is you know, when his own party betrayed

1449
01:16:42,479 --> 01:16:44,679
Speaker 2: him or he felt they weren't doing what he thought

1450
01:16:44,720 --> 01:16:47,479
Speaker 2: should be done. He left it and he ran as

1451
01:16:47,520 --> 01:16:49,800
Speaker 2: an independent. I mean, you know what I just found out, dude,

1452
01:16:49,800 --> 01:16:53,840
Speaker 2: to this kind of surprising is this gives me an

1453
01:16:53,840 --> 01:16:55,479
Speaker 2: opportunity to bring up my honor ay PhD.

1454
01:16:57,439 --> 01:17:01,479
Speaker 1: Shoulder there. Oh wow, he's got the big one. I

1455
01:17:01,479 --> 01:17:02,719
Speaker 1: was just reading that the press.

1456
01:17:02,920 --> 01:17:04,920
Speaker 2: The president is below that is it?

1457
01:17:05,040 --> 01:17:09,639
Speaker 1: The small one? The president, the university, that little dinky

1458
01:17:09,680 --> 01:17:14,760
Speaker 1: thing anyhow, just like a way, a way that I

1459
01:17:14,760 --> 01:17:18,360
Speaker 1: could flex. Yeah. Please. When I was there doing that,

1460
01:17:18,640 --> 01:17:21,479
Speaker 1: I had dinner a couple of times with the president

1461
01:17:22,200 --> 01:17:25,400
Speaker 1: of University Montana, guy named Seth Bodner, who's a green bray.

1462
01:17:25,880 --> 01:17:27,320
Speaker 1: I was just reading. I had no idea. I was

1463
01:17:27,360 --> 01:17:33,960
Speaker 1: reading last night Bodner is resigning from UH is resigning

1464
01:17:34,360 --> 01:17:37,640
Speaker 1: from being the president of the University of Montana to

1465
01:17:38,120 --> 01:17:42,880
Speaker 1: launch a third party bid for Montana's Senate seat.

1466
01:17:42,960 --> 01:17:47,639
Speaker 2: Wo wow. Well, you know it feels like I can't.

1467
01:17:47,680 --> 01:17:51,840
Speaker 1: Which is a death sentence. Well, because you can't.

1468
01:17:52,600 --> 01:17:53,639
Speaker 2: But you don't have to win.

1469
01:17:53,840 --> 01:17:56,880
Speaker 3: You don't have to win a majority, That's right. I Mean,

1470
01:17:56,880 --> 01:17:59,760
Speaker 3: that's the that's the difference with the presidential election is

1471
01:17:59,840 --> 01:18:04,120
Speaker 3: like there's a structural obstacle to a third party winning.

1472
01:18:04,520 --> 01:18:08,599
Speaker 3: But I think like a third party senator could I mean,

1473
01:18:08,680 --> 01:18:09,560
Speaker 3: there's several.

1474
01:18:09,320 --> 01:18:13,200
Speaker 1: Ef it's more plausible, but it's just we just don't

1475
01:18:14,120 --> 01:18:14,840
Speaker 1: don't play that game.

1476
01:18:15,120 --> 01:18:19,479
Speaker 2: I feel like we're going through a political realignment. I mean,

1477
01:18:19,520 --> 01:18:22,000
Speaker 2: what what we knew as a Republican when we were

1478
01:18:22,280 --> 01:18:25,200
Speaker 2: kids is now a Democrat. What a Democrat was is

1479
01:18:25,240 --> 01:18:26,600
Speaker 2: now more of a Republican.

1480
01:18:27,640 --> 01:18:31,599
Speaker 1: And it's like the Republicans, like when I was a boy,

1481
01:18:31,800 --> 01:18:37,320
Speaker 1: you were free trade, yeah right, you were hawkish. Now

1482
01:18:37,320 --> 01:18:39,920
Speaker 1: it's like you're sort of like a protect you like protectionist.

1483
01:18:40,400 --> 01:18:43,120
Speaker 1: So there's a fact there's a pacifist wing, you know.

1484
01:18:43,240 --> 01:18:46,200
Speaker 2: And this this is what happens throughout US history is

1485
01:18:46,880 --> 01:18:51,120
Speaker 2: and it happened during TR's time, right, there was a

1486
01:18:51,439 --> 01:18:57,040
Speaker 2: change in what a Republican was and and whether the

1487
01:18:57,080 --> 01:18:59,919
Speaker 2: Republican Party wanted to be that and what the Democratic

1488
01:19:00,080 --> 01:19:03,720
Speaker 2: Party who was, you know, aligned with with slavery. Right,

1489
01:19:03,760 --> 01:19:06,920
Speaker 2: I mean, they didn't hold office on the federal level

1490
01:19:07,040 --> 01:19:11,559
Speaker 2: for what I mean, it's until it was twenty five years,

1491
01:19:11,680 --> 01:19:13,679
Speaker 2: you know. I mean, so they were in the wilderness

1492
01:19:13,760 --> 01:19:17,320
Speaker 2: for quite a long time. Trying to restore their identity.

1493
01:19:17,360 --> 01:19:20,600
Speaker 2: And it's really until FDR comes along and sort of

1494
01:19:20,640 --> 01:19:24,360
Speaker 2: steals the playbook from Theodore Roosevelt and says, hey, you

1495
01:19:24,400 --> 01:19:26,599
Speaker 2: know all those ideas that he was trying to convince

1496
01:19:26,640 --> 01:19:29,240
Speaker 2: Republicans to do, I don't want the Democrats do them.

1497
01:19:29,520 --> 01:19:31,519
Speaker 2: I mean you think about the history of conservation, right,

1498
01:19:31,560 --> 01:19:35,599
Speaker 2: I mean it's fascinating. It's almost like there's four phases.

1499
01:19:35,640 --> 01:19:39,920
Speaker 2: You've got this first phase where Theodore Roosevelt the first

1500
01:19:39,960 --> 01:19:44,320
Speaker 2: politician to really appreciate what academics we're talking about in conservation,

1501
01:19:44,360 --> 01:19:48,400
Speaker 2: and then put it into legislative action. The federal government,

1502
01:19:48,439 --> 01:19:51,240
Speaker 2: state governments are going to do something related to nature

1503
01:19:51,240 --> 01:19:55,000
Speaker 2: and lands. And then you have FDR who picks up

1504
01:19:55,040 --> 01:19:57,760
Speaker 2: that baton and puts it on steroids. I mean right,

1505
01:19:57,840 --> 01:20:00,920
Speaker 2: I mean the CCC and the work's probably Riss administration.

1506
01:20:01,040 --> 01:20:04,760
Speaker 2: And that's just explodes into I mean, he's probably one

1507
01:20:04,760 --> 01:20:08,479
Speaker 2: of our most underrated conservation presidents because so much.

1508
01:20:08,640 --> 01:20:12,120
Speaker 1: Else taking taking unemployed people, putting them big camps to

1509
01:20:12,160 --> 01:20:14,320
Speaker 1: do conservation work exactly right.

1510
01:20:14,360 --> 01:20:19,200
Speaker 2: And so that's t r's idea manifold forty times right.

1511
01:20:19,840 --> 01:20:22,240
Speaker 2: And then you now you've got these lands. Now you've

1512
01:20:22,240 --> 01:20:25,599
Speaker 2: got these agencies. Now you've got these rules and laws

1513
01:20:25,600 --> 01:20:29,760
Speaker 2: and regulations, and then there's kind of an era of regulation. Right,

1514
01:20:29,760 --> 01:20:35,800
Speaker 2: there's awareness of environmental protection and degradation and pollution, and

1515
01:20:36,000 --> 01:20:39,720
Speaker 2: that's kind of your you know, Endangered Species Act and

1516
01:20:39,840 --> 01:20:43,160
Speaker 2: Nixon Nixon another great conservation is right, like it.

1517
01:20:43,200 --> 01:20:45,360
Speaker 1: Was almost over observed. We talked about it all the time,

1518
01:20:45,400 --> 01:20:55,720
Speaker 1: but like, uh, e p A, Yeah, the environment in

1519
01:20:55,800 --> 01:20:58,880
Speaker 1: Dangered Species Act. But what else came in under Republicans?

1520
01:20:59,840 --> 01:21:02,640
Speaker 2: All those in the in Nixon's time. I mean, it

1521
01:21:02,680 --> 01:21:05,800
Speaker 2: was that was a flurry of pretty much all the

1522
01:21:05,800 --> 01:21:09,920
Speaker 2: federal regulations that you're still dealing with. And so it

1523
01:21:10,000 --> 01:21:11,600
Speaker 2: kind of begs this question, is why I love the

1524
01:21:11,600 --> 01:21:15,479
Speaker 2: timing of the Theodore Roosevelt Presidential Library. It's like, what's

1525
01:21:15,479 --> 01:21:17,720
Speaker 2: old is new again. We're at this crux point, We're

1526
01:21:17,760 --> 01:21:22,240
Speaker 2: at this inflection, We're at this midpoint where what is

1527
01:21:22,280 --> 01:21:26,599
Speaker 2: that fourth stage of conservation? What is the future of

1528
01:21:26,800 --> 01:21:30,360
Speaker 2: that conversation? You know, it's one of those issues that

1529
01:21:30,400 --> 01:21:35,759
Speaker 2: shouldn't necessarily be partisan or political. C forgets that way often,

1530
01:21:36,160 --> 01:21:42,639
Speaker 2: but you've had throughout history Republicans, Democrats, independents embrace this idea,

1531
01:21:42,800 --> 01:21:45,120
Speaker 2: and that's one of the I mean, I think, like

1532
01:21:45,200 --> 01:21:48,719
Speaker 2: what the Reagan Library has done on defense, I feel

1533
01:21:48,760 --> 01:21:53,559
Speaker 2: like tr Library can do in conservation right, create a

1534
01:21:53,600 --> 01:21:57,519
Speaker 2: place of convening and civic conversation to bring people together

1535
01:21:57,960 --> 01:22:00,200
Speaker 2: to talk about these things, to have a I mean,

1536
01:22:00,240 --> 01:22:03,799
Speaker 2: every I've talked to so many different people of different

1537
01:22:03,840 --> 01:22:07,880
Speaker 2: political backgrounds, from different states and countries, rural, urban, you

1538
01:22:07,960 --> 01:22:10,519
Speaker 2: name it, and they all say kind of the same

1539
01:22:10,640 --> 01:22:15,160
Speaker 2: thing using different words. It's the words that put them

1540
01:22:15,160 --> 01:22:19,400
Speaker 2: in different camps or sides or parties. And I don't know,

1541
01:22:19,439 --> 01:22:21,599
Speaker 2: maybe it's naive, but that thought of like an independent

1542
01:22:21,760 --> 01:22:24,960
Speaker 2: just he's somebody that brings people together.

1543
01:22:28,200 --> 01:22:30,599
Speaker 1: She say that that Edith lived thirty years longer.

1544
01:22:30,920 --> 01:22:35,480
Speaker 2: Yes, he died thirty years look like for her fascinating

1545
01:22:36,439 --> 01:22:39,560
Speaker 2: because she never wanted to be at Sagamore Hill. On

1546
01:22:39,600 --> 01:22:44,320
Speaker 2: the anniversary of his death January sixth, she did.

1547
01:22:47,000 --> 01:22:48,400
Speaker 1: The original six Man.

1548
01:22:48,400 --> 01:22:50,439
Speaker 3: There's a lot of eerie parallels here.

1549
01:22:51,360 --> 01:22:53,120
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get that wrong in the future and make

1550
01:22:53,200 --> 01:22:54,639
Speaker 1: it seem more like you're.

1551
01:22:54,439 --> 01:22:58,120
Speaker 2: Gonna get You're gonna Kennedy Oswald like Lincoln.

1552
01:22:58,120 --> 01:23:00,040
Speaker 1: That thing you he booked.

1553
01:23:03,439 --> 01:23:07,120
Speaker 2: Driving in Dallas. There was a book depository. There's riots.

1554
01:23:07,120 --> 01:23:13,400
Speaker 2: It was crazy. She lived her best life.

1555
01:23:13,520 --> 01:23:14,160
Speaker 1: Was she public?

1556
01:23:15,040 --> 01:23:20,400
Speaker 2: She tried not to be. She would gather with you know,

1557
01:23:20,760 --> 01:23:22,400
Speaker 2: a lot of people would come up to Sagamore Hill,

1558
01:23:22,520 --> 01:23:27,120
Speaker 2: want to talk with her, want to remember tr She

1559
01:23:27,160 --> 01:23:29,599
Speaker 2: would go. She went on her own adventures. She wrote

1560
01:23:29,640 --> 01:23:33,679
Speaker 2: this fabulous book with Kerbitt, and her chapter is Odyssey

1561
01:23:33,720 --> 01:23:36,559
Speaker 2: of a Grandmother and she, I, Ca'm not gonna remember

1562
01:23:36,600 --> 01:23:39,439
Speaker 2: the I know right well, she but she kind of

1563
01:23:39,439 --> 01:23:40,840
Speaker 2: goes to that quote, like I love to see the

1564
01:23:40,920 --> 01:23:43,280
Speaker 2: little faces, but I prefer to see their backs. She

1565
01:23:43,400 --> 01:23:46,960
Speaker 2: traveled the world. She went to thirty forty different countries.

1566
01:23:48,040 --> 01:23:50,280
Speaker 2: She kind of became this global ambassador.

1567
01:23:50,800 --> 01:23:52,120
Speaker 1: She lived.

1568
01:23:52,160 --> 01:23:56,600
Speaker 2: She she it's interesting because she lived as long. You know,

1569
01:23:56,640 --> 01:23:59,160
Speaker 2: she knew him for fifty seven of his sixty years.

1570
01:23:59,200 --> 01:24:01,920
Speaker 2: They met when he was three years old and they

1571
01:24:01,920 --> 01:24:06,160
Speaker 2: were married for about thirty years. So she lived without

1572
01:24:06,280 --> 01:24:10,880
Speaker 2: him as long as they were married and kind of

1573
01:24:10,880 --> 01:24:14,800
Speaker 2: had this amazing life and adventure. She I mean a

1574
01:24:14,800 --> 01:24:17,639
Speaker 2: lot of sadness too. I mean Quentin, her youngest son,

1575
01:24:18,160 --> 01:24:20,880
Speaker 2: died in World War One. He's the only World War

1576
01:24:20,920 --> 01:24:26,120
Speaker 2: One soldier now buried at Normandy alongside his brother, Ted Junior,

1577
01:24:26,720 --> 01:24:29,759
Speaker 2: who died in World War Two. Kermit, as you mentioned,

1578
01:24:29,920 --> 01:24:32,400
Speaker 2: died by suicide. But they didn't tell her. They lied.

1579
01:24:32,520 --> 01:24:34,519
Speaker 2: They said, you know, he died of a heart attack

1580
01:24:34,680 --> 01:24:36,479
Speaker 2: because I didn't want I mean, so three of her

1581
01:24:36,520 --> 01:24:41,799
Speaker 2: sons died before she did. You know, she did endorse.

1582
01:24:41,840 --> 01:24:44,760
Speaker 2: So then you have Fdr who comes along in he

1583
01:24:44,840 --> 01:24:48,840
Speaker 2: runs for governor in New York. Then he runs for

1584
01:24:48,880 --> 01:24:53,400
Speaker 2: president in nineteen thirty two, and Edith comes out of

1585
01:24:54,160 --> 01:24:59,160
Speaker 2: her self imposed isolation and endorses Hoover. She and there's

1586
01:24:59,160 --> 01:25:03,160
Speaker 2: a big split in family. Connye yep, yep. So Bami

1587
01:25:03,200 --> 01:25:05,240
Speaker 2: had died by this point. She died in nineteen thirty one.

1588
01:25:05,320 --> 01:25:07,680
Speaker 1: Yeah. I was going to ask if they remained like operators,

1589
01:25:07,760 --> 01:25:10,880
Speaker 1: like political operators, or if that passion was just under

1590
01:25:11,360 --> 01:25:11,760
Speaker 1: There was.

1591
01:25:11,720 --> 01:25:16,559
Speaker 2: A really fascinating dynamic between Connie the younger sister and

1592
01:25:16,680 --> 01:25:20,679
Speaker 2: Ted Junior. So, I mean, imagine being Theodore Roosevelt junior,

1593
01:25:21,280 --> 01:25:25,840
Speaker 2: like almost impossible. But he has a remarkable life. I mean,

1594
01:25:25,880 --> 01:25:31,080
Speaker 2: he runs for governor and he is unsuccessful. He's taken

1595
01:25:31,120 --> 01:25:35,360
Speaker 2: down by the teapot Dome scandal, which it's involved the

1596
01:25:35,360 --> 01:25:37,960
Speaker 2: Department of Interiors speaking of conservation. It was base, I

1597
01:25:37,960 --> 01:25:41,960
Speaker 2: mean boiled down in its greatest simplicity. It was the

1598
01:25:42,000 --> 01:25:47,320
Speaker 2: Secretary of the Interior selling oil leases illegally, and Teapot

1599
01:25:47,320 --> 01:25:49,559
Speaker 2: Dome was a place in Wyoming that had oil leases,

1600
01:25:49,600 --> 01:25:51,960
Speaker 2: and he was doing it off the books, and somehow

1601
01:25:51,960 --> 01:25:54,560
Speaker 2: Ted Junior, even though he really didn't have anything to

1602
01:25:54,600 --> 01:25:58,080
Speaker 2: do with this, gets embroiled in the scandal. Eleanor Roosevelt

1603
01:25:58,160 --> 01:26:02,559
Speaker 2: campaigns against him. The Hyde Park and Oyster Bay branches

1604
01:26:02,600 --> 01:26:06,280
Speaker 2: of the family really begin to divide after the death

1605
01:26:06,320 --> 01:26:10,519
Speaker 2: of TR. FDR emulated tr loved him, I mean really

1606
01:26:10,560 --> 01:26:14,639
Speaker 2: modeled his whole career on his distant cousin. I mean,

1607
01:26:14,680 --> 01:26:17,200
Speaker 2: he was assistant Secretary of the Navy, He was governor

1608
01:26:17,240 --> 01:26:19,400
Speaker 2: of New York, He was in the New York State Assembly.

1609
01:26:19,479 --> 01:26:22,040
Speaker 2: He of course ran for president. I mean there's a

1610
01:26:22,080 --> 01:26:25,680
Speaker 2: direct line. He even FDR cast his first vote for

1611
01:26:25,720 --> 01:26:29,559
Speaker 2: president for tr in nineteen oh four. Yeah, and when

1612
01:26:29,560 --> 01:26:31,559
Speaker 2: he was asked, well, why you know, because he's a Democrat,

1613
01:26:31,560 --> 01:26:33,240
Speaker 2: why'd you vote for the Republican? And he said, well,

1614
01:26:33,240 --> 01:26:35,760
Speaker 2: I thought he made a better Democrat than the Republican.

1615
01:26:38,360 --> 01:26:39,760
Speaker 2: Pretty good, right, you kid.

1616
01:26:40,360 --> 01:26:40,880
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1617
01:26:40,960 --> 01:26:45,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, So there's a split in the family. Connie really

1618
01:26:45,680 --> 01:26:49,800
Speaker 2: becomes a public figure. She's publishing books, she's giving speeches,

1619
01:26:50,000 --> 01:26:53,360
Speaker 2: she's she becomes the first woman to speak at the

1620
01:26:53,520 --> 01:26:57,719
Speaker 2: Republican National Convention. In nineteen twenty, a lot of people

1621
01:26:57,760 --> 01:27:02,839
Speaker 2: thought that Theodore Roosevelt was going to be the presidential nominee.

1622
01:27:02,840 --> 01:27:06,240
Speaker 2: He'd sort of made amends with the party. He said

1623
01:27:06,240 --> 01:27:09,400
Speaker 2: if he declined to run for governor of New York again,

1624
01:27:09,479 --> 01:27:11,519
Speaker 2: because he said, if I've got one last fight in me,

1625
01:27:12,000 --> 01:27:14,639
Speaker 2: it's going to be for the presidency. In nineteen twenty.

1626
01:27:15,120 --> 01:27:17,200
Speaker 2: I mean, he knew he was sick, and of course

1627
01:27:17,240 --> 01:27:19,840
Speaker 2: the family knew he was sick, but it was a

1628
01:27:19,960 --> 01:27:23,879
Speaker 2: stunner when he died. I mean, he was the leading

1629
01:27:23,920 --> 01:27:27,840
Speaker 2: candidate for the presidential nomination in the Republican Party when

1630
01:27:27,880 --> 01:27:30,840
Speaker 2: he died, and I mean so much so that they

1631
01:27:30,840 --> 01:27:35,080
Speaker 2: were trying to soften his support out West and running hits, running,

1632
01:27:35,120 --> 01:27:37,960
Speaker 2: you know, negative campaigns already on him, trying to make

1633
01:27:37,960 --> 01:27:43,040
Speaker 2: sure that he wouldn't succeed. You know, it's it's imagine

1634
01:27:43,040 --> 01:27:47,160
Speaker 2: what happens were he to live and win in nineteen twenty,

1635
01:27:47,360 --> 01:27:50,840
Speaker 2: you know, again, a whole different world. He gives us

1636
01:27:51,080 --> 01:27:53,719
Speaker 2: the last speech Theodore Roosevelt ever gave in his life

1637
01:27:53,760 --> 01:27:56,800
Speaker 2: is on November two, nineteen eighteen. It's at Carnegie Hall

1638
01:27:57,479 --> 01:28:00,320
Speaker 2: in front of a mixed race audience. W. E. Du

1639
01:28:00,360 --> 01:28:05,040
Speaker 2: Bois is on stage. The educator and Theodore Roosevelt says

1640
01:28:05,400 --> 01:28:11,840
Speaker 2: that he endorses equality amongst black and white and says

1641
01:28:12,320 --> 01:28:15,080
Speaker 2: justice with me is not a mere form of words.

1642
01:28:15,640 --> 01:28:18,920
Speaker 2: I mean, had he won in nineteen twenty, he was

1643
01:28:19,000 --> 01:28:22,240
Speaker 2: going to take aim at Jim Crow forty five years

1644
01:28:22,280 --> 01:28:25,439
Speaker 2: before the Civil Rights Act. I mean this progressive tarn Again.

1645
01:28:25,439 --> 01:28:28,719
Speaker 2: I don't mean it politically. I mean that he saw

1646
01:28:28,920 --> 01:28:33,840
Speaker 2: black soldiers fight alongside white soldiers in World War One,

1647
01:28:33,960 --> 01:28:37,800
Speaker 2: and it changed, he evolved, It changed his outlook. He

1648
01:28:37,880 --> 01:28:41,360
Speaker 2: was constantly like, what's next, What's the next battle? What

1649
01:28:41,439 --> 01:28:44,120
Speaker 2: do we as a country going to face? And he

1650
01:28:44,200 --> 01:28:47,360
Speaker 2: thought racism. I mean he was always anti peonage, he

1651
01:28:48,520 --> 01:28:50,639
Speaker 2: was anti lynching. He was very you know, he made

1652
01:28:50,640 --> 01:28:54,600
Speaker 2: some mistakes, some big mistakes. But the NAACP on his

1653
01:28:54,720 --> 01:28:58,760
Speaker 2: death ran an incredible memorial talking about how we have

1654
01:28:58,960 --> 01:29:01,600
Speaker 2: lost a friend. He was on the board of the

1655
01:29:01,640 --> 01:29:04,680
Speaker 2: Tuskegee Institute. He was on the board of Howard University.

1656
01:29:05,880 --> 01:29:08,000
Speaker 2: I mean you know, these are like things people don't

1657
01:29:08,000 --> 01:29:10,320
Speaker 2: even like, how do you But it's because he was

1658
01:29:10,439 --> 01:29:13,120
Speaker 2: so I don't know, He's like a man from the

1659
01:29:13,160 --> 01:29:15,960
Speaker 2: future sent back in time, you know, how he saw

1660
01:29:16,120 --> 01:29:17,600
Speaker 2: what our next battle was going to be.

1661
01:29:18,479 --> 01:29:21,040
Speaker 1: It's interesting. It's like during the height of the Wolkesters.

1662
01:29:21,120 --> 01:29:22,439
Speaker 1: I remember, like I sit on the board of the

1663
01:29:22,439 --> 01:29:25,240
Speaker 1: Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership, and like at the height of

1664
01:29:25,280 --> 01:29:31,840
Speaker 1: the Wolkester's power, they were like pushing TRCP like disavow him. Yeah,

1665
01:29:32,000 --> 01:29:34,559
Speaker 1: what's interest when you get into what some of his

1666
01:29:34,640 --> 01:29:36,320
Speaker 1: stances were in the twenties.

1667
01:29:36,120 --> 01:29:38,960
Speaker 2: Well, I mean we took possession of the equestrian statue

1668
01:29:39,000 --> 01:29:43,360
Speaker 2: that stood outside of the Yeah. Yes, yes, it is

1669
01:29:43,360 --> 01:29:48,599
Speaker 2: a safe and secure location in North Dakota. It will well,

1670
01:29:48,680 --> 01:29:51,240
Speaker 2: it's the trick. It's it's one hundred and sixty eight

1671
01:29:51,280 --> 01:29:55,120
Speaker 2: thousand pounds sixteen feet yeah. Yeah, no, it's not an

1672
01:29:55,200 --> 01:29:58,799
Speaker 2: easy object to move. So by the time we took possession,

1673
01:29:58,840 --> 01:30:03,240
Speaker 2: our plans were well in motion. We will do something

1674
01:30:03,360 --> 01:30:05,639
Speaker 2: with it. We will have it on public display at something.

1675
01:30:05,720 --> 01:30:09,960
Speaker 2: But I think it's you're not the first person off

1676
01:30:09,960 --> 01:30:10,240
Speaker 2: for that.

1677
01:30:10,840 --> 01:30:13,640
Speaker 3: Just get a dolly, but a new haul shouldn't be

1678
01:30:13,680 --> 01:30:14,120
Speaker 3: a big deal.

1679
01:30:14,200 --> 01:30:16,679
Speaker 2: It was. That's kind of the quintessential example, though, Steve.

1680
01:30:16,720 --> 01:30:21,520
Speaker 2: It's excuse doctor Ranella. It is bronze, it's hollow bronze,

1681
01:30:21,680 --> 01:30:24,640
Speaker 2: and the pedestal is enormously heavy. I mean, that's a

1682
01:30:24,800 --> 01:30:28,479
Speaker 2: granite from Connecticut that's considered park side.

1683
01:30:28,520 --> 01:30:28,720
Speaker 1: Can't.

1684
01:30:29,800 --> 01:30:32,920
Speaker 2: I wish it were that simple, but but it's the I.

1685
01:30:33,120 --> 01:30:35,280
Speaker 2: But it's a quintessential.

1686
01:30:34,560 --> 01:30:38,400
Speaker 1: Example understanding of the complexity the wait.

1687
01:30:38,920 --> 01:30:42,439
Speaker 2: And it's bisected. It's actually so in order to move

1688
01:30:42,479 --> 01:30:44,400
Speaker 2: it out of the move it into the city in

1689
01:30:44,439 --> 01:30:49,160
Speaker 2: nineteen forty, it had to be bisected along the saddle.

1690
01:30:49,479 --> 01:30:49,920
Speaker 1: Let's say.

1691
01:30:50,560 --> 01:30:52,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, so there's some pieces that need to pay.

1692
01:30:53,080 --> 01:30:55,160
Speaker 1: You don't even tell me the number. But hasn't been appraised.

1693
01:30:56,120 --> 01:30:58,519
Speaker 2: There was an appraisal, yes, before we was a come

1694
01:30:58,600 --> 01:31:05,519
Speaker 2: in it significant significant, yes, yes, not insignificant, but it was.

1695
01:31:05,680 --> 01:31:09,760
Speaker 2: It's a perfect example of what you're talking about. Right.

1696
01:31:09,840 --> 01:31:15,920
Speaker 2: So Theodore Roosevelt dies in nineteen nineteen that there's a

1697
01:31:16,160 --> 01:31:20,200
Speaker 2: there's a fierce competition between Albany and New York City

1698
01:31:20,400 --> 01:31:22,639
Speaker 2: to be the site of the official New York State

1699
01:31:22,720 --> 01:31:27,120
Speaker 2: Memorial to tr and by this time there is a

1700
01:31:27,920 --> 01:31:31,120
Speaker 2: undoubtedly racist head of the American Museum of Natural History.

1701
01:31:31,240 --> 01:31:34,759
Speaker 2: I mean he's he is working with Addison Grant, who's

1702
01:31:34,800 --> 01:31:39,519
Speaker 2: talking about, you know, the theories that will eventually inform Hitler.

1703
01:31:39,600 --> 01:31:42,000
Speaker 1: And it's not it's not talking about our buddy Horna Day,

1704
01:31:42,000 --> 01:31:42,240
Speaker 1: are you.

1705
01:31:42,320 --> 01:31:44,400
Speaker 2: No, No, no, no, I'm not talking about Horna Day. No. No, no, no,

1706
01:31:44,400 --> 01:31:46,320
Speaker 2: not horna Day. No Horna Day. There's a great book

1707
01:31:46,360 --> 01:31:48,360
Speaker 2: by Darren Lunde since there body.

1708
01:31:48,040 --> 01:31:50,160
Speaker 1: But no no, but Horneay did have a couple of

1709
01:31:50,200 --> 01:31:53,080
Speaker 1: little well it's odd thoughts, not like this.

1710
01:31:53,080 --> 01:31:57,920
Speaker 2: This was yeah, this was like convening people to talk

1711
01:31:57,960 --> 01:32:04,559
Speaker 2: about racial hierarchy in right. And so he pitches the

1712
01:32:04,640 --> 01:32:09,120
Speaker 2: idea that the front entrance, this new entrance builds, build

1713
01:32:09,160 --> 01:32:10,920
Speaker 2: a new entrance. If you've been to the American Museum

1714
01:32:10,920 --> 01:32:12,639
Speaker 2: of Natural History in New York, you know the entrance

1715
01:32:12,720 --> 01:32:16,680
Speaker 2: is on seventy seventy seventh, right, So if you go,

1716
01:32:16,720 --> 01:32:19,320
Speaker 2: there's an old entrance that's been there forever. And the

1717
01:32:19,400 --> 01:32:22,400
Speaker 2: pitch was, let's make a new entrance on Central Park West.

1718
01:32:23,080 --> 01:32:26,519
Speaker 2: This and it is it's Boone and Crockett and the

1719
01:32:26,560 --> 01:32:29,400
Speaker 2: other's four figures up top. There's quotes from tr there's

1720
01:32:29,479 --> 01:32:33,280
Speaker 2: quotes on nature and conservation. The family's very involved in this.

1721
01:32:33,520 --> 01:32:37,040
Speaker 2: They win the competition to basically make the American Museum

1722
01:32:37,040 --> 01:32:40,920
Speaker 2: in Natural History the New York State Memorial to Theodore Roosevelt.

1723
01:32:40,920 --> 01:32:43,439
Speaker 2: And what's fascinating about it is when they're working with

1724
01:32:43,479 --> 01:32:47,000
Speaker 2: their family, Bammy, Connie and Edith, in particular, what do

1725
01:32:47,040 --> 01:32:49,080
Speaker 2: you want to be remembered. We want to remember him

1726
01:32:49,080 --> 01:32:51,800
Speaker 2: as a naturalist, we want to remember as a conservationist,

1727
01:32:52,200 --> 01:32:54,800
Speaker 2: and we want this entire memorial to reflect who his

1728
01:32:55,080 --> 01:32:59,839
Speaker 2: heroes were. So you know it's Boone, Crockett, Lewis and Clark.

1729
01:33:01,160 --> 01:33:03,120
Speaker 2: Yeah he's up, I mean, way up on the top.

1730
01:33:03,200 --> 01:33:06,360
Speaker 2: You really got But this is what slave owner well

1731
01:33:06,479 --> 01:33:10,439
Speaker 2: I mean. So then later the president of A M

1732
01:33:10,520 --> 01:33:13,679
Speaker 2: and H says, let's I want We're going to commission

1733
01:33:13,680 --> 01:33:18,160
Speaker 2: this statue. Theodore Roosevelt explicitly said statues do not test

1734
01:33:18,479 --> 01:33:20,439
Speaker 2: last the test of time. If there's one thing I

1735
01:33:20,479 --> 01:33:23,640
Speaker 2: don't want, it's a statue of myself. I mean, one

1736
01:33:23,640 --> 01:33:26,600
Speaker 2: of the few things he didn't want of all the

1737
01:33:26,640 --> 01:33:29,160
Speaker 2: honors that he got. And so it's not.

1738
01:33:29,439 --> 01:33:31,240
Speaker 1: Can't mean that it doesn't live the test of time.

1739
01:33:31,439 --> 01:33:35,120
Speaker 2: Exactly what happened. I mean that sometime, at some point

1740
01:33:35,160 --> 01:33:38,280
Speaker 2: in the future, there's going to be an interpretation that

1741
01:33:38,320 --> 01:33:42,200
Speaker 2: doesn't meet the intent of it, of a its original creation.

1742
01:33:42,880 --> 01:33:44,200
Speaker 1: And that's what he was getting at.

1743
01:33:44,400 --> 01:33:48,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, his that his legacy would be intertwined with something

1744
01:33:48,760 --> 01:33:52,120
Speaker 2: that he never had any part of. And that's true.

1745
01:33:52,360 --> 01:33:55,960
Speaker 2: I mean, that's what happened. That's what I find like again,

1746
01:33:56,040 --> 01:33:58,439
Speaker 2: he's like a man from the future sent back in

1747
01:33:58,560 --> 01:34:01,599
Speaker 2: time to say, don't do this or this is what

1748
01:34:01,640 --> 01:34:05,360
Speaker 2: the next fight will be. I mean it's eerie when

1749
01:34:05,400 --> 01:34:08,120
Speaker 2: you think of I mean, you know, nineteen oh seven,

1750
01:34:08,240 --> 01:34:11,360
Speaker 2: the economy collapses, he works with JP Morgan to create

1751
01:34:11,400 --> 01:34:14,960
Speaker 2: what will become the FED. Football is in danger. He

1752
01:34:15,160 --> 01:34:17,920
Speaker 2: calls the presidents of elite universities to the White House.

1753
01:34:18,040 --> 01:34:20,840
Speaker 2: They create what becomes the NCAA and save the game

1754
01:34:20,840 --> 01:34:24,320
Speaker 2: of football. You know, meat packing and meat inspecting are

1755
01:34:24,479 --> 01:34:28,759
Speaker 2: killing people. He's the one who's reading Upton, Sinclair and others,

1756
01:34:28,800 --> 01:34:36,839
Speaker 2: and he creates the FDA, right, I meant.

1757
01:34:34,680 --> 01:34:35,880
Speaker 1: Shore Bird Yep.

1758
01:34:36,520 --> 01:34:39,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, he creates Pelican Island, creates Pelican Island. You'll love.

1759
01:34:39,840 --> 01:34:43,280
Speaker 2: In the Theodore Roosevelt Presidential Library, there's a special section

1760
01:34:43,400 --> 01:34:46,439
Speaker 2: in the presidency on his conservation legacy, and it talks about,

1761
01:34:46,720 --> 01:34:48,640
Speaker 2: you know, of course the land and the waters and

1762
01:34:48,640 --> 01:34:52,639
Speaker 2: the irrigation projects and everything. But there is a statue,

1763
01:34:52,680 --> 01:34:55,200
Speaker 2: a bronze statue that we are creating of tr and

1764
01:34:55,240 --> 01:34:58,000
Speaker 2: it's a recreation of the famous image of him with

1765
01:34:58,080 --> 01:35:00,920
Speaker 2: his hand on the globe. And then and we have

1766
01:35:00,920 --> 01:35:01,439
Speaker 2: a pelican.

1767
01:35:01,520 --> 01:35:04,639
Speaker 3: But he said statues, I know, but we cheated.

1768
01:35:04,680 --> 01:35:08,080
Speaker 2: We're gonna but we put we we did one that

1769
01:35:08,200 --> 01:35:11,280
Speaker 2: is a recreation of his of a photo. And then

1770
01:35:11,400 --> 01:35:14,839
Speaker 2: I think the grace note here is the pelican, because

1771
01:35:14,960 --> 01:35:17,160
Speaker 2: you know, if you know, you know, and if you don't,

1772
01:35:17,520 --> 01:35:19,000
Speaker 2: that's pretty good. And then it'll be kind of a

1773
01:35:19,240 --> 01:35:21,240
Speaker 2: cool to see who discovers.

1774
01:35:20,760 --> 01:35:22,920
Speaker 1: That you're you're literary man, you might know the answer

1775
01:35:22,920 --> 01:35:26,559
Speaker 1: to this. What was Philip Roth's novel? Was it the

1776
01:35:26,560 --> 01:35:29,439
Speaker 1: Plot against America? Does he do a novel where he

1777
01:35:29,760 --> 01:35:32,240
Speaker 1: imagines that Charles Lindberg wins?

1778
01:35:33,560 --> 01:35:37,599
Speaker 2: Charlesberg is so popular he runs in nineteen forty and wins,

1779
01:35:37,680 --> 01:35:41,559
Speaker 2: and basically sympathizer basically says, let's make peace with Germany,

1780
01:35:41,680 --> 01:35:42,720
Speaker 2: let them take what they like.

1781
01:35:42,840 --> 01:35:45,280
Speaker 1: And that's the plot against America. Yes, yeah, there should

1782
01:35:45,280 --> 01:35:47,960
Speaker 1: be there should be a novel. There should be a

1783
01:35:48,000 --> 01:35:52,320
Speaker 1: novel that that Theodore Roosevelt wins in nineteen twenty at fabulous.

1784
01:35:52,479 --> 01:35:55,559
Speaker 2: Right, it's a it's you know, he he was tired.

1785
01:35:55,600 --> 01:35:57,599
Speaker 1: He would be like a real happiness cut this out.

1786
01:35:57,720 --> 01:35:57,880
Speaker 1: You know.

1787
01:35:59,240 --> 01:36:02,479
Speaker 2: It was a strenuous life. Yeah, it was just you know,

1788
01:36:02,600 --> 01:36:04,880
Speaker 2: I don't think he had the fight and the energy

1789
01:36:05,120 --> 01:36:08,559
Speaker 2: left in him, obviously since he was very close to death.

1790
01:36:08,600 --> 01:36:12,799
Speaker 2: But it is pretty extraordinary to wonder what would have happened.

1791
01:36:12,840 --> 01:36:15,160
Speaker 2: I mean that that's the tr that I know. I mean,

1792
01:36:15,160 --> 01:36:18,640
Speaker 2: that's in the loves of Theodore Roosevelt. I'm discovering this

1793
01:36:18,720 --> 01:36:22,160
Speaker 2: person that had great instincts and could make mistakes. But

1794
01:36:22,680 --> 01:36:26,320
Speaker 2: the real takeaway from me was, if we are all

1795
01:36:26,400 --> 01:36:30,200
Speaker 2: fortunate in life, we have mother, a brother, a sister,

1796
01:36:30,320 --> 01:36:34,600
Speaker 2: a friend, a colleague, somebody who picks us up and

1797
01:36:34,720 --> 01:36:38,240
Speaker 2: pushes us forward when we're really down, and.

1798
01:36:38,240 --> 01:36:40,080
Speaker 1: Well I have someone that kicks me forward.

1799
01:36:40,160 --> 01:36:43,600
Speaker 2: Well that's what you need sometimes, right, and tr was

1800
01:36:43,640 --> 01:36:45,839
Speaker 2: no different. I mean, he's up there on Mount Rushmore.

1801
01:36:46,160 --> 01:36:51,320
Speaker 2: He seems kind of, I don't know, inaccessible. He's larger

1802
01:36:51,360 --> 01:36:56,400
Speaker 2: than life. Can't you can't meet these feats of strength

1803
01:36:56,520 --> 01:37:03,960
Speaker 2: and adventure and accomplish And I think what I appreciated

1804
01:37:04,000 --> 01:37:07,320
Speaker 2: in doing this research and building this library is that

1805
01:37:07,360 --> 01:37:09,920
Speaker 2: he's he's a little more like all of us than

1806
01:37:09,920 --> 01:37:13,360
Speaker 2: we realized. And maybe that's a good thing. It makes

1807
01:37:13,400 --> 01:37:16,680
Speaker 2: you think you can do that too. You know, he

1808
01:37:16,760 --> 01:37:21,519
Speaker 2: had struggles, he had pain, he had setbacks, and there

1809
01:37:21,600 --> 01:37:24,320
Speaker 2: was an infrastructure. There were people there to keep him

1810
01:37:24,360 --> 01:37:27,679
Speaker 2: moving and make the right decisions and keep fighting for

1811
01:37:27,760 --> 01:37:31,439
Speaker 2: what he saw as right in the world. And you know,

1812
01:37:31,520 --> 01:37:35,640
Speaker 2: that's what I think the ultimate lesson. He never deferred

1813
01:37:35,760 --> 01:37:39,400
Speaker 2: a problem to tomorrow. Right. He talks about this, especially

1814
01:37:39,479 --> 01:37:42,400
Speaker 2: with regard to conservation. This is for our children and

1815
01:37:42,479 --> 01:37:47,320
Speaker 2: our children's children, for all those who will come after us. Well,

1816
01:37:47,640 --> 01:37:49,680
Speaker 2: there are a lot of problems that we're kicking the

1817
01:37:49,720 --> 01:37:54,120
Speaker 2: can down the road on in America today. And I think,

1818
01:37:55,040 --> 01:37:57,000
Speaker 2: what if you can take one lesson from this person

1819
01:37:57,000 --> 01:38:00,360
Speaker 2: who attracts Republicans, Democrats and independents alike, it's that you

1820
01:38:00,439 --> 01:38:03,559
Speaker 2: got to sit down and deal with the problems that

1821
01:38:03,560 --> 01:38:05,639
Speaker 2: are in front of you, or they are just going

1822
01:38:05,680 --> 01:38:10,200
Speaker 2: to reverberate through the generations. It's one of the big

1823
01:38:10,280 --> 01:38:11,000
Speaker 2: lessons of his life.

1824
01:38:11,680 --> 01:38:13,479
Speaker 1: Man you're the right man for the job to run

1825
01:38:13,520 --> 01:38:16,800
Speaker 1: that library. Hope, though, give you a chance to have

1826
01:38:16,880 --> 01:38:18,439
Speaker 1: like you know, when you walk around there's like an

1827
01:38:18,479 --> 01:38:20,439
Speaker 1: old man like doing interpretive stuff.

1828
01:38:21,120 --> 01:38:24,960
Speaker 2: That's my future.

1829
01:38:25,280 --> 01:38:29,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, like dress up like TV, you're like wander around.

1830
01:38:28,640 --> 01:38:33,600
Speaker 2: And the story about nineteen round, he's unbelievable.

1831
01:38:34,120 --> 01:38:38,160
Speaker 4: Talk to Manella about its way back in six if

1832
01:38:38,200 --> 01:38:43,360
Speaker 4: you just wanted by President Manella, whoa, I saw it

1833
01:38:43,400 --> 01:38:44,280
Speaker 4: coming before you did.

1834
01:38:46,200 --> 01:38:49,280
Speaker 1: Man, Yeah, what but like U in all seriousness, man,

1835
01:38:49,280 --> 01:38:54,559
Speaker 1: what a situation you landed and like you know, I mean,

1836
01:38:54,600 --> 01:38:56,960
Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean to have the book and

1837
01:38:57,000 --> 01:39:00,920
Speaker 1: to have the position and just be like all that and.

1838
01:39:00,920 --> 01:39:06,160
Speaker 2: The moment, the moment, I think I didn't necessarily anticipate, No,

1839
01:39:06,200 --> 01:39:10,400
Speaker 2: but I mean it's yeah. I mean I think we

1840
01:39:10,439 --> 01:39:13,000
Speaker 2: could all use a little more tr right now.

1841
01:39:14,160 --> 01:39:15,679
Speaker 1: You're given to you're bringing it right now, You're.

1842
01:39:15,560 --> 01:39:17,800
Speaker 2: Going to bring it, and I think the nation needs it.

1843
01:39:17,800 --> 01:39:20,479
Speaker 2: I think the world needs it needs reminding of you know,

1844
01:39:20,840 --> 01:39:22,800
Speaker 2: do what you can with what you have where you are.

1845
01:39:22,960 --> 01:39:25,720
Speaker 2: You know, it's a person is the best thing you

1846
01:39:25,720 --> 01:39:27,320
Speaker 2: can you know, in a moment of decision, the best

1847
01:39:27,320 --> 01:39:29,000
Speaker 2: thing you can do is make the right decision, the

1848
01:39:29,040 --> 01:39:30,880
Speaker 2: next best thing is the wrong decision, and the worst

1849
01:39:30,880 --> 01:39:34,400
Speaker 2: thing is nothing like again and again, his philosophy just

1850
01:39:34,520 --> 01:39:38,120
Speaker 2: reverberates in a way in the arena. I mean, one

1851
01:39:38,120 --> 01:39:40,880
Speaker 2: of the special experiences of the TR Library is going

1852
01:39:40,960 --> 01:39:45,679
Speaker 2: to be surrounded by that incredible paragraph in the arena speech.

1853
01:39:46,080 --> 01:39:47,960
Speaker 2: You know, it is not the critic who counts. And

1854
01:39:48,920 --> 01:39:53,400
Speaker 2: it's fifteen feet tall, it's nine feet you know, it's

1855
01:39:53,720 --> 01:39:57,439
Speaker 2: nine feet high. It's We're going to have different voices

1856
01:39:57,560 --> 01:39:59,920
Speaker 2: different you know, one time you walk in it'll be

1857
01:40:00,400 --> 01:40:02,720
Speaker 2: President Clinton or Bush, and the next time you walk

1858
01:40:02,760 --> 01:40:06,120
Speaker 2: in it'll be you know, Leonardo DiCaprio or Lebron James.

1859
01:40:06,200 --> 01:40:09,000
Speaker 2: And and the whole idea is that you know, you

1860
01:40:09,160 --> 01:40:11,960
Speaker 2: then are asked, what what do you want to dare

1861
01:40:12,000 --> 01:40:14,639
Speaker 2: greatly to do in this life? You know, this one

1862
01:40:14,760 --> 01:40:17,240
Speaker 2: chance that you have to make a difference in the world,

1863
01:40:17,720 --> 01:40:21,320
Speaker 2: What do you care enough about to commit to action.

1864
01:40:22,120 --> 01:40:25,400
Speaker 2: So I've always thought that, you know, the past really

1865
01:40:25,439 --> 01:40:28,600
Speaker 2: teaches you about the present in order to make a

1866
01:40:28,600 --> 01:40:31,800
Speaker 2: better future. And so if we can look back to

1867
01:40:31,960 --> 01:40:35,080
Speaker 2: t R and understand a little something about our world

1868
01:40:35,800 --> 01:40:40,040
Speaker 2: and maybe just maybe bond together and make something better,

1869
01:40:40,120 --> 01:40:41,720
Speaker 2: then this will all have been worth it.

1870
01:40:42,160 --> 01:40:44,640
Speaker 1: You know, this is really inspiring too, because like me

1871
01:40:44,680 --> 01:40:47,559
Speaker 1: and Randall have been really struggling with whether we want

1872
01:40:47,560 --> 01:40:49,360
Speaker 1: to take on the task trying to learn how to

1873
01:40:49,400 --> 01:40:52,759
Speaker 1: make gas station hot dogs and deer meat, and sometimes

1874
01:40:52,760 --> 01:40:54,680
Speaker 1: it seems too daunting and they're going to do it.

1875
01:40:54,720 --> 01:40:58,040
Speaker 1: But after you're hearing this, now be the difference.

1876
01:40:58,280 --> 01:40:58,679
Speaker 2: In the world.

1877
01:40:59,200 --> 01:41:00,400
Speaker 1: You want the.

1878
01:41:02,160 --> 01:41:07,519
Speaker 2: Area you know, past six years just came to full fruition. Yeah,

1879
01:41:08,120 --> 01:41:10,320
Speaker 2: that you can get deer meat, hot dogs and gas

1880
01:41:10,320 --> 01:41:14,599
Speaker 2: stations is It's not what I envisioned in twenty nineteen,

1881
01:41:14,640 --> 01:41:15,200
Speaker 2: But here we are.

1882
01:41:15,680 --> 01:41:17,800
Speaker 1: Someday when we figured that recipe out, you'll be able

1883
01:41:17,800 --> 01:41:20,960
Speaker 1: to be like me. I make that happen. We have

1884
01:41:21,000 --> 01:41:23,880
Speaker 1: a Wyoming based company who is going to send us

1885
01:41:23,880 --> 01:41:30,840
Speaker 1: a SAM I guess we can just kick it.

1886
01:41:34,920 --> 01:41:37,519
Speaker 3: Aspired they were inspired by your show.

1887
01:41:37,720 --> 01:41:42,040
Speaker 1: Turns out there's already someone in the arena. It's not

1888
01:41:42,080 --> 01:41:44,759
Speaker 1: on the market, it's just for us.

1889
01:41:44,800 --> 01:41:45,759
Speaker 3: They're fans of the show.

1890
01:41:45,880 --> 01:41:48,479
Speaker 1: So are you going to be there? I mean you'll

1891
01:41:48,520 --> 01:41:50,599
Speaker 1: obviously be present for the grand opening. I'm thinking about

1892
01:41:50,600 --> 01:41:52,120
Speaker 1: head of the grand What.

1893
01:41:52,120 --> 01:41:54,240
Speaker 3: Does the grand opening look like? Is there like a

1894
01:41:54,240 --> 01:41:56,840
Speaker 3: week of activity.

1895
01:41:56,360 --> 01:41:57,760
Speaker 2: I mean, should stay?

1896
01:41:57,760 --> 01:41:59,320
Speaker 3: Should people put it on their calendar.

1897
01:41:59,439 --> 01:42:02,639
Speaker 2: Well, we we have invited all living presidents to join

1898
01:42:02,720 --> 01:42:05,040
Speaker 2: us at the grand opening room. If they all join us,

1899
01:42:05,040 --> 01:42:11,800
Speaker 2: we won't need fireworks, So that'll be fun, we we. Well,

1900
01:42:11,920 --> 01:42:19,760
Speaker 2: let's see, we've got Clinton, Bush, Obama, Biden. This is

1901
01:42:19,800 --> 01:42:21,519
Speaker 2: four and then the current president five.

1902
01:42:22,439 --> 01:42:24,559
Speaker 1: What's a normal amount of living presidents?

1903
01:42:24,640 --> 01:42:27,360
Speaker 2: That's about I think I feel like that's about what

1904
01:42:27,400 --> 01:42:27,720
Speaker 2: it is.

1905
01:42:27,760 --> 01:42:32,559
Speaker 1: It's five. Just a great a year every year going

1906
01:42:32,600 --> 01:42:36,200
Speaker 1: back to the beginning, and how many we're alive at

1907
01:42:36,200 --> 01:42:36,559
Speaker 1: that time.

1908
01:42:36,600 --> 01:42:40,240
Speaker 2: Okay, so we can blow the Washington zero yep.

1909
01:42:40,080 --> 01:42:42,160
Speaker 1: And then he'd be like, you know, on down the line.

1910
01:42:42,000 --> 01:42:44,439
Speaker 2: Yep, nobody came to his party. He was the only

1911
01:42:45,160 --> 01:42:50,720
Speaker 2: invited all the presidents, and we're all here, yeah here,

1912
01:42:50,760 --> 01:42:56,400
Speaker 2: since you, since you clearly assassination conspiracy line, Every president

1913
01:42:56,600 --> 01:43:01,639
Speaker 2: from eighteen forty until Reagan in nineteen eighty either died

1914
01:43:01,720 --> 01:43:05,640
Speaker 2: or was killed in office every twenty years. Again, so

1915
01:43:05,680 --> 01:43:10,960
Speaker 2: every twenty years from eighteen forty to nineteen eighty, the

1916
01:43:11,000 --> 01:43:14,439
Speaker 2: president died or was killed in office. So eighteen forty,

1917
01:43:14,479 --> 01:43:19,439
Speaker 2: eighteen sixty, eighteen eighty, nineteen hundred nineteen twenty, nineteen forty,

1918
01:43:19,920 --> 01:43:23,639
Speaker 2: nineteen sixty. Yeah, and Reagan was shot but did not die.

1919
01:43:23,920 --> 01:43:25,519
Speaker 1: So you a curse. I'm going to hit you with

1920
01:43:25,520 --> 01:43:26,040
Speaker 1: a weird one.

1921
01:43:26,120 --> 01:43:26,439
Speaker 2: Okay.

1922
01:43:27,080 --> 01:43:29,760
Speaker 1: I saw into the writer Selena Zito, she just wrote

1923
01:43:29,800 --> 01:43:33,120
Speaker 1: that book. Butler, Yeah, bought the assassination attempt on Trump.

1924
01:43:33,360 --> 01:43:36,160
Speaker 1: She was like, we're talking and she said, he's not

1925
01:43:36,280 --> 01:43:39,800
Speaker 1: the first president to be shot in.

1926
01:43:39,800 --> 01:43:43,320
Speaker 2: Butler, Oh what seriously?

1927
01:43:43,640 --> 01:43:46,840
Speaker 1: Well, during the French like in the sort of like

1928
01:43:47,000 --> 01:43:50,920
Speaker 1: out like in the complications of the French Indian War,

1929
01:43:51,439 --> 01:43:58,759
Speaker 1: George Washington as a British rw military guy.

1930
01:43:57,800 --> 01:43:59,680
Speaker 2: Right, he was shot there. He was shot like right

1931
01:44:00,080 --> 01:44:04,040
Speaker 2: that county. I would not have put that together to

1932
01:44:04,080 --> 01:44:07,280
Speaker 2: get that one. And I believe, like you could the

1933
01:44:07,280 --> 01:44:09,519
Speaker 2: clothes that he was wearing, you could see where the

1934
01:44:09,560 --> 01:44:12,360
Speaker 2: bullets went through. I think that they were preserved. And

1935
01:44:12,360 --> 01:44:14,760
Speaker 2: there's a crazy story about like just how close he

1936
01:44:14,800 --> 01:44:15,679
Speaker 2: came to being killed.

1937
01:44:15,720 --> 01:44:17,479
Speaker 1: That was in that county. They had had a meeting.

1938
01:44:17,520 --> 01:44:20,040
Speaker 1: We'd come in and try to tell the French what's up, yep,

1939
01:44:20,479 --> 01:44:24,360
Speaker 1: And they had a little meeting and then they take

1940
01:44:24,439 --> 01:44:26,559
Speaker 1: off and they sent an assassin in his wake. I

1941
01:44:26,560 --> 01:44:28,320
Speaker 1: think I could be screwing it up. They sent an

1942
01:44:28,320 --> 01:44:30,040
Speaker 1: assassin in his waight to go take a pot shot

1943
01:44:30,080 --> 01:44:32,679
Speaker 1: at him. Yeah, yeah, I think it's how it went.

1944
01:44:32,840 --> 01:44:35,679
Speaker 2: And that was the county coming up for that. That's crazy.

1945
01:44:36,200 --> 01:44:38,280
Speaker 1: So it was bad. Where's everybody where? The hell's everybody in?

1946
01:44:38,400 --> 01:44:40,759
Speaker 1: Stay well, because you guys are in the middle of nowhere.

1947
01:44:40,960 --> 01:44:42,640
Speaker 2: We're in the middle of everywhere, Steve, I don't need

1948
01:44:42,680 --> 01:44:48,080
Speaker 2: to tell you center of North America.

1949
01:44:49,640 --> 01:44:51,880
Speaker 1: It's gorgeous. That wasn't meaning it as a hit, but

1950
01:44:51,920 --> 01:44:54,439
Speaker 1: there's just not like a huge there's not a huge

1951
01:44:54,560 --> 01:44:56,320
Speaker 1: urban area with thirty hotels.

1952
01:44:56,640 --> 01:45:00,839
Speaker 2: So there are seven hundred hotel rooms in the itself,

1953
01:45:01,320 --> 01:45:03,720
Speaker 2: and then in Dickinson, thirty miles away, there are over

1954
01:45:03,760 --> 01:45:08,320
Speaker 2: three thousand. And there's camping, RV's and clamping and all

1955
01:45:08,360 --> 01:45:12,559
Speaker 2: the things that have now become very commonplace around. Well,

1956
01:45:13,200 --> 01:45:15,240
Speaker 2: we're going to hit a max for sure. I mean,

1957
01:45:15,360 --> 01:45:18,880
Speaker 2: so if the President visits, likely to be early in

1958
01:45:18,920 --> 01:45:22,960
Speaker 2: that that week of festivities, then we hope to have

1959
01:45:23,080 --> 01:45:25,519
Speaker 2: a couple of days where we're really focused on a

1960
01:45:25,520 --> 01:45:27,559
Speaker 2: lot of the people that have made this possible. I mean,

1961
01:45:27,600 --> 01:45:29,439
Speaker 2: four hundred million dollars raise, we've got a lot of

1962
01:45:29,479 --> 01:45:32,840
Speaker 2: benefactors we want to honor, and we hope that July

1963
01:45:32,920 --> 01:45:36,120
Speaker 2: fourth will really be an incredible celebration, a community day.

1964
01:45:36,400 --> 01:45:38,200
Speaker 2: You know, we want as many people as we can

1965
01:45:38,280 --> 01:45:40,200
Speaker 2: to get up and see the site and see the museum.

1966
01:45:40,479 --> 01:45:44,400
Speaker 2: It's going to be pragmatically challenging, logistically challenging, but we're

1967
01:45:44,439 --> 01:45:44,960
Speaker 2: going to do we can.

1968
01:45:45,080 --> 01:45:47,280
Speaker 1: We also, I think I want to take my kids

1969
01:45:47,280 --> 01:45:48,799
Speaker 1: out there. I think I'm oh, yeah, man.

1970
01:45:48,920 --> 01:45:52,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's fabulous. It's if not for the opening,

1971
01:45:52,560 --> 01:45:55,960
Speaker 2: then shortly thereafter because it's a great place to get

1972
01:45:56,000 --> 01:45:57,679
Speaker 2: out into the National Park.

1973
01:45:58,280 --> 01:46:00,200
Speaker 1: You guys can touch off a couple of fireworks.

1974
01:45:59,840 --> 01:46:02,120
Speaker 2: On So we are going to do a drone show.

1975
01:46:02,520 --> 01:46:05,479
Speaker 2: We've got so that the folks that did I don't

1976
01:46:05,479 --> 01:46:08,800
Speaker 2: know if you saw this Grace for the World on Hulu.

1977
01:46:08,920 --> 01:46:13,120
Speaker 2: They did an amazing concert and then above the Vatican

1978
01:46:13,600 --> 01:46:17,000
Speaker 2: they recreated Leonardo da Vici's works as well as several

1979
01:46:17,880 --> 01:46:23,320
Speaker 2: images in drones. It's stunning, Yeah, stunning, stunning. So we're

1980
01:46:23,320 --> 01:46:27,679
Speaker 2: going to do like a fourteen to eighteen minute life

1981
01:46:27,680 --> 01:46:30,840
Speaker 2: of Theodore Roosevelt in the sky as a drone story.

1982
01:46:31,600 --> 01:46:34,160
Speaker 2: Really well, yeah, because in part we don't want to

1983
01:46:34,160 --> 01:46:35,759
Speaker 2: burn down the building that we just built.

1984
01:46:36,280 --> 01:46:39,160
Speaker 3: But July July and then.

1985
01:46:39,800 --> 01:46:49,240
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't need to. Let's see what happens. Hey,

1986
01:46:49,280 --> 01:46:52,040
Speaker 2: we get to do it all again. Maybe we'll inspire

1987
01:46:52,080 --> 01:46:54,360
Speaker 2: another deer meat discovery.

1988
01:46:55,960 --> 01:46:57,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, I do want to go to that. I mean,

1989
01:46:57,360 --> 01:46:59,120
Speaker 1: I've been kicking around going too. I hadn't thought about

1990
01:46:59,120 --> 01:47:01,400
Speaker 1: the possibility. Bring them kids, prob go over. Reserve me

1991
01:47:01,439 --> 01:47:02,160
Speaker 1: a hotel room.

1992
01:47:02,280 --> 01:47:04,519
Speaker 2: Man, you know a guy. We can help you out,

1993
01:47:04,720 --> 01:47:09,320
Speaker 2: Doctor Rinella. We'll make it happen. I'll sleep in broom closets.

1994
01:47:11,160 --> 01:47:12,360
Speaker 1: Man. That was great having you on.

1995
01:47:12,720 --> 01:47:15,000
Speaker 2: That's wonderful to be with you. Thanks for all you do.

1996
01:47:15,280 --> 01:47:17,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're good. You're a good kind of guest where

1997
01:47:17,080 --> 01:47:19,280
Speaker 1: you just kind of know the story in and out.

1998
01:47:19,360 --> 01:47:22,840
Speaker 2: Due, Well, I've been living it for six years, so

1999
01:47:23,200 --> 01:47:25,360
Speaker 2: you know, it's just you. I gotta I gotta warn

2000
01:47:25,400 --> 01:47:27,479
Speaker 2: your listeners out there. They go down the tr rabbit hole.

2001
01:47:27,520 --> 01:47:28,720
Speaker 2: It's very hard to get back out.

2002
01:47:28,880 --> 01:47:29,519
Speaker 1: It's a deep pit.

2003
01:47:29,640 --> 01:47:31,599
Speaker 2: It's deep. It's a deep one.

2004
01:47:32,080 --> 01:47:35,960
Speaker 1: Well again, everybody, the lives of Theodore Roosevelt, the women,

2005
01:47:36,080 --> 01:47:40,200
Speaker 1: the loves. What am I saying? The look like I

2006
01:47:40,720 --> 01:47:44,879
Speaker 1: had like an in arguably you know fast the loves

2007
01:47:44,920 --> 01:47:49,400
Speaker 1: of Theodore Roosevelt, the women who created a president Edward

2008
01:47:49,560 --> 01:47:55,040
Speaker 1: O'Keefe Ryder, and what is the president CEO CEO of

2009
01:47:55,160 --> 01:48:01,400
Speaker 1: the Theodore Roosevelt Presidential Library opening soon. Thanks for coming

2010
01:48:01,400 --> 01:48:03,400
Speaker 1: on man, great to be with you. Great appreciate it.

2011
01:48:03,439 --> 01:48:04,000
Speaker 2: Thanks so much,