WEBVTT - Questlove Supreme: Sananda Maitreya Part 2

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<v Speaker 1>Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. All Right, people,

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<v Speaker 1>welcome back to Quest Love Supreme. It's me Quest Love

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<v Speaker 1>you know. A few times this season, me and Team

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<v Speaker 1>Supreme often do these special one on one episodes. Today's

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<v Speaker 1>guests Sananda Montoya. It wasn't planned as a one on one,

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<v Speaker 1>but do just scheduling and life and whatnot, just having

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<v Speaker 1>to turn out that way. Of course, I was thrilled

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<v Speaker 1>about it because it allowed me to have a discussion

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<v Speaker 1>with someone that I admired and called an inspiration. And

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<v Speaker 1>in this interview we learn that we have a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of stuff in common. And this is part two, so

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<v Speaker 1>if you haven't, please check out Part one, where we

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<v Speaker 1>speak about Sonondas growing up, his appreciation for Rod Stewart,

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<v Speaker 1>even his time as a boxer. All right, enjoy. I

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<v Speaker 1>always wanted to know when you're turning in the tapes

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<v Speaker 1>for Neither Fish or Flesh, which I feel is your

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<v Speaker 1>real first album, because your your first album is this

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<v Speaker 1>your life experience up until that point, and you're you're

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<v Speaker 1>feeling your way out and yeah, of the two, I

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<v Speaker 1>choose the latter when you're turning that in. What is

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<v Speaker 1>Donnie's response? What is Tommy's response, What is the Brass's response?

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, first of all, let this let me say this

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<v Speaker 2>some interesting things that goes down with this. First of all,

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<v Speaker 2>it's uncanny because in fact, I mentioned that quite a

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<v Speaker 2>few times for this particular project as I was promoting it.

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<v Speaker 2>That and it's the truth. The first album felt like

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<v Speaker 2>the finale of a life that I was meant to.

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<v Speaker 3>Finish your old life. Yes, let me just like specific.

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<v Speaker 3>I can explain this if you can keep track. For me,

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<v Speaker 3>I do believe in doesn't matter what we call them.

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<v Speaker 3>I do believe in spares of angels and other things.

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<v Speaker 2>I do believe we're in this multi dimensional, interactive experience,

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<v Speaker 2>overlapping dimensions and all kinds of stuff, and of course

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<v Speaker 2>which our radio has got all of this capacity, but

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<v Speaker 2>we're only focused on where it is on the dial

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<v Speaker 2>right now, and that's how frequency we focused, so we

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<v Speaker 2>are not aware that there's all these other frequencies going

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<v Speaker 2>on as well. So for me, that's important because when

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<v Speaker 2>I was eighteen years old, I had an experience where

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<v Speaker 2>I was home from basic training from the military, and

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<v Speaker 2>my old room obviously had been moved into and taken

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<v Speaker 2>over by a younger sibling. So I slept in the den,

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<v Speaker 2>the TV room, and I had a dream that night

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<v Speaker 2>I'll never forget. It was December eighth, I was home

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<v Speaker 2>for two weeks from basic training before getting reassigned to

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<v Speaker 2>my first posting in Fort Sill, Oklahoma, and I had

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<v Speaker 2>this dream that like I said, my very first movie

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<v Speaker 2>I can remember seeing was Breakfast of Tiffany's. And in

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<v Speaker 2>the dream, the age I was eighteen, I'm standing in

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<v Speaker 2>front of Tiffany's department store in New York. Ear it's

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<v Speaker 2>really early morning, and I see this figure, familiar figure

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<v Speaker 2>walking towards me, and as he gets closer to me,

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<v Speaker 2>I recognize more and more, and his smile gets bigger

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<v Speaker 2>and bigger and bigger, and at one point I go,

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<v Speaker 2>oh shit, that's John Lennon. And I'll never forget. He

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<v Speaker 2>was wearing a white shirt, some blue jeans, and his

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<v Speaker 2>hat and his granny glasses and he get close to me.

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<v Speaker 2>Is he looked like he was so happy to see me.

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<v Speaker 2>He stuck out his hands and as I stuck out

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<v Speaker 2>my hand, he went straight through me. Okay, these were

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<v Speaker 2>my first, first first heroes with Fould influence. So I

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<v Speaker 2>get up that morning and my mother says to me

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<v Speaker 2>when she sees me that morning, did you hear what happened?

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<v Speaker 2>I said, what she says, John Lennon was killed last night. Oh,

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<v Speaker 2>I said what she said? Yeah, he was shot, And

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<v Speaker 2>I said, I said, Mom, I dreamt he walked into me.

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<v Speaker 2>So again, here's my take on these these things. If

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<v Speaker 2>I agree to take some of your what you're leaving behind,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm sure there were quite a few people on his

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<v Speaker 2>list day. I'm going to leave you a little bit

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<v Speaker 2>of this beetle magic. I'm gonna leave you a little bit.

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<v Speaker 2>But you can't take that without taking the burden as well.

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<v Speaker 2>So he had issues with his mom, He had issues,

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of issues. You have to take some of

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<v Speaker 2>that shit on as well, because that was also what

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<v Speaker 2>made him him. So I say that because, first of all,

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<v Speaker 2>I believe that these overlapping experiences where that first album

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<v Speaker 2>felt like me and John were finishing something. Okay, his car,

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<v Speaker 2>something maybe he or whatever. I like your filter, I

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<v Speaker 2>would like to work through you perfect, I'm your pin.

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<v Speaker 2>Let's do it. And it felt like I had stepped

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<v Speaker 2>out of something that I was just always destined to

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<v Speaker 2>start step out of and into and out of. But

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<v Speaker 2>I agree with you that neither officih no flesh for me.

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<v Speaker 2>And it was the most exciting time I've ever had

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<v Speaker 2>making a record because I could just feel in retrospect

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<v Speaker 2>the roots of postalem rock agans there, and finally I

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<v Speaker 2>was able to to you know, Mozart. The last thing

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<v Speaker 2>he said was he he'd gotten a commission to be

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<v Speaker 2>a church compel meister, and all they commissioned from him

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<v Speaker 2>with like two or three pieces a year, so he

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<v Speaker 2>would have had all of his chance, all this time

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<v Speaker 2>to compose, and he said something to affect Damn. I

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<v Speaker 2>was just getting ready to compose the music I really

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<v Speaker 2>wanted to make. And you think, like, fuck if Mozart

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<v Speaker 2>feels that way or hiden Heyden's last words being I

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<v Speaker 2>was finally learning how to write for horns. You mean

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<v Speaker 2>I mean that words apparently, you know, apparently, so you.

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<v Speaker 1>Know I'm not done yet.

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<v Speaker 2>Just yeah. So I do agree with you that it

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<v Speaker 2>felt like the breakthrough that that that was. Now Here's

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<v Speaker 2>another situation was that before I went into the studio

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<v Speaker 2>to make that record, the president of Columbia, a CBS

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<v Speaker 2>England Russell, put me into his office and wanted to

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<v Speaker 2>show me all these demographic surveys that basically said that

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<v Speaker 2>though I hadn't sold as many records as Michael or

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<v Speaker 2>anyone else, that I had ticked literally every demographic box

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<v Speaker 2>that they even keep track of, and that they had

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<v Speaker 2>never seen that before and it freaked them out. So that,

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<v Speaker 2>let me know one thing right there, I was seen

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<v Speaker 2>as a political figure because, as you know, I don't

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<v Speaker 2>have to be singing about politics if my music is

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<v Speaker 2>bringing people together across the divides that are placed there

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<v Speaker 2>artificially to keep people from me. So if I'm bringing

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<v Speaker 2>in bikers and grandmothers and thirteen year olds and academics

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<v Speaker 2>and all these people that they keep, people start in

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<v Speaker 2>power start to look at that and go hmm okay.

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<v Speaker 2>Plus they didn't have enough time to vet me. I

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<v Speaker 2>just shot off like a rocket.

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<v Speaker 1>You didn't think that was just due to let's maximize,

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<v Speaker 1>if anything, like I could have sworn that. They were like, okay,

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<v Speaker 1>this is someone that will I don't want to say

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<v Speaker 1>the word replaced, but you know, record execs feel like,

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<v Speaker 1>of course, this is the person that Michael as connected.

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<v Speaker 2>That's all connected. So that's why this is very intriguing

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<v Speaker 2>because you know, when we do the book. I'll have

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<v Speaker 2>time to extrapolate, you know, all of this information, look

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<v Speaker 2>at it in depth, because everything is connected, and I'm

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<v Speaker 2>trying to keep it, you know, a hold over their

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<v Speaker 2>thread myself. The point is that they knew who Michael was,

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<v Speaker 2>so whatever he was guilty or not guilty of, they

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<v Speaker 2>would have known. They knew who he had been vetted

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<v Speaker 2>his whole life. He had been vetted. They knew who

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<v Speaker 2>he was. They knew where to take to motivate him,

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<v Speaker 2>they knew where to take to manipulate him. They didn't

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<v Speaker 2>have that info me yet because I came up too quick.

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<v Speaker 1>I get it.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, the corporation is not going to get in

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<v Speaker 2>found of money while the money's printing itself. They wait

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<v Speaker 2>for the money to reset before they go, Okay, now

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<v Speaker 2>do we want to continue? Who is this mollfucker? Who

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<v Speaker 2>is this kid? Okay? But Paul Russell brought me into

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<v Speaker 2>his office and he said, I just want you to

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<v Speaker 2>know that the first two million records you brought when

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<v Speaker 2>you sold were genuine to genuine music fans. He said,

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<v Speaker 2>after this, you become a cultural phenomenon, and people are

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<v Speaker 2>not buying the record for the music. People are buying

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<v Speaker 2>the record because it's part of their cultural identity of

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<v Speaker 2>the moment that you can't say you're cool if you

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<v Speaker 2>don't have this on your coffee table. If someone walks

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<v Speaker 2>into your to your living room, have you heard the song,

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<v Speaker 2>say oh yeah, yeah, I've been there, done that. It

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<v Speaker 2>becomes that kind of thing. He actually said to me,

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<v Speaker 2>don't expect your next record or next couple of records

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<v Speaker 2>to follow the same formula. It won't, he said, because

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<v Speaker 2>you'll those people will come back to you, But the

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<v Speaker 2>history of England especially, they won't come back to you

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<v Speaker 2>to your third or fourth project. Okay, because you're gonna

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<v Speaker 2>have to pay for this success.

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<v Speaker 1>Hey, was he telling you that you were too successful?

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<v Speaker 2>He was basically saying I wasn't going to have that

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<v Speaker 2>type of success again anytime soon, because at one point

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<v Speaker 2>it went beyond being a musical thing and became becoming

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<v Speaker 2>a cultural phenomenon that then developed steam is that that

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<v Speaker 2>it goes beyond the music. So those people the next

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<v Speaker 2>time you don't get those people to come right back.

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<v Speaker 1>Let me ask you an important question then, and this

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<v Speaker 1>is kind of the theme of the slide film. Is

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<v Speaker 1>success as traumatic or more traumatic than failing?

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<v Speaker 2>Is look, the bottom line is this. We all have

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<v Speaker 2>to be responsible for the energy that we create. There

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<v Speaker 2>are no exceptions. Society may give us a free pass

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<v Speaker 2>based on its affection for us or our image, but

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<v Speaker 2>karma is real and law is simple. We all have

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<v Speaker 2>to be responsible for the energy we create those who

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<v Speaker 2>are capable of creating energy. That's just the way the

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<v Speaker 2>universe polices itself. So the bottom line is I was

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<v Speaker 2>going to have to pay for that sojourn, regardless of

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<v Speaker 2>whether I had wound up on this side or that side,

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<v Speaker 2>because there is no free lunch. Everything has a price,

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<v Speaker 2>and you either pay in advance or you pay on

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<v Speaker 2>the back end. I didn't have to pay in advance, well,

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<v Speaker 2>at least far as the industry was concerned. So I

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<v Speaker 2>had to pay on the back end. But there was

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<v Speaker 2>also genuine fear. Because I was genuine. I really believed

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<v Speaker 2>that I was given the power of transformation and I

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<v Speaker 2>could help. As George Harrison said, people say, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>think for yourself. We understand that the state moun Olympus

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<v Speaker 2>creates us demi gods in order to program the people

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<v Speaker 2>as to what is expected of them or how they

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<v Speaker 2>expected to be. In order to be members of a society,

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<v Speaker 2>a governed society, a civilization, a community. So obviously it

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<v Speaker 2>is not in the best interest of any kind of

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<v Speaker 2>organization with power to promote the power of someone who

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<v Speaker 2>was not, in turn promoting them a team player. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>you know that makes sense. I mean, I can't be

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<v Speaker 2>that naive like they came up against me. I wasn't

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<v Speaker 2>trying to bring down the building, you know. I was

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<v Speaker 2>just saying, look, I'm who I am, and I'm not

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<v Speaker 2>changing for some bullshit. I'm not going to become a

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<v Speaker 2>black artist for you bitches. I won't. You can argue

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<v Speaker 2>for days how black a person and I am. I

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<v Speaker 2>have no beep but none of that whatever. But I

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<v Speaker 2>will never consent to be on a black artist because

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<v Speaker 2>you know, and I know what that means. And you

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<v Speaker 2>know that unless you was Stevie Wonder and you had

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<v Speaker 2>all of motime telling you do what the hell you

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<v Speaker 2>want it, you know exactly how limiting and handcuffing that was.

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<v Speaker 2>So I was never interested in being a black artist.

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<v Speaker 2>I was never interested in helping the establishment restabilize the image.

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<v Speaker 2>They were comfortable black people emulating black guys emulating. You

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<v Speaker 2>don't want black dudes is the Maverick. And plus we

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<v Speaker 2>only pay lip service to the Maverick because it's a

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<v Speaker 2>useful promotional image. We don't really support mavericks, but will

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<v Speaker 2>support the image of one as long as we can

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<v Speaker 2>control or we can collaborate on what it is you're doing.

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<v Speaker 2>But that's not a question for everyone questioning. Not everybody

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<v Speaker 2>gives a shit. Everybody has any ambition other than to

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<v Speaker 2>be famous, make great music and whatever, And I don't

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<v Speaker 2>hold them responsible for anything that I feel responsible for.

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<v Speaker 2>But for me, I understood that I was not going

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<v Speaker 2>to be yet the next card in a machine. You

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<v Speaker 2>know that determines how people are to behave to respond,

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<v Speaker 2>what parts of themselves are acceptable, what parts are unacceptable,

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<v Speaker 2>and what the establishment is comfortable embracing you. As I

0:12:16.720 --> 0:12:22.040
<v Speaker 2>just I felt like I had many ancestors saying, you

0:12:22.160 --> 0:12:24.480
<v Speaker 2>don't have to do that. We did that, We were

0:12:24.520 --> 0:12:26.880
<v Speaker 2>not happy. This is why we are pushing you, you

0:12:27.000 --> 0:12:30.440
<v Speaker 2>stubborn asshole. This is why we've made you so stubborn,

0:12:30.840 --> 0:12:34.560
<v Speaker 2>because it's imperative that now as you have a chance

0:12:34.600 --> 0:12:38.160
<v Speaker 2>to turn this wheel, you must turn this wheel. Because

0:12:38.360 --> 0:12:40.880
<v Speaker 2>what we do is of consequence. You don't know the

0:12:40.920 --> 0:12:43.360
<v Speaker 2>people born the people might not even be born who

0:12:43.440 --> 0:12:45.840
<v Speaker 2>you're setting up their life for, but you must do

0:12:45.960 --> 0:12:49.440
<v Speaker 2>this because I was enamored of the belief that if

0:12:49.480 --> 0:12:51.960
<v Speaker 2>I didn't do it, the music that I've been able

0:12:52.000 --> 0:12:55.640
<v Speaker 2>to contribute wouldn't possibly be made by anyone else in particular,

0:12:55.720 --> 0:12:59.160
<v Speaker 2>but as that which came through my particular filter. And

0:12:59.240 --> 0:13:02.640
<v Speaker 2>you know, I'm grateful that you mentioned even D'Angelo, who

0:13:02.640 --> 0:13:05.360
<v Speaker 2>I have to say that I'm extremely proud of, a

0:13:05.400 --> 0:13:08.240
<v Speaker 2>few years ago, I was in Sweden and the Swedish

0:13:08.320 --> 0:13:10.760
<v Speaker 2>journalist reminded me that I said to him twenty five

0:13:10.880 --> 0:13:14.880
<v Speaker 2>thirty years ago what I was going to do, and

0:13:14.920 --> 0:13:17.679
<v Speaker 2>he said, my god, you've done it. You've done it,

0:13:18.280 --> 0:13:20.680
<v Speaker 2>and he mentioned another artist. He said, another artist, He

0:13:20.720 --> 0:13:25.160
<v Speaker 2>mentioned D'Angelo. He said, D'Angelo has also continued to resist

0:13:25.800 --> 0:13:29.319
<v Speaker 2>caricaturing himself and just continuing to grow and expanding that thing.

0:13:29.360 --> 0:13:31.840
<v Speaker 2>Because again, I don't care how many credentials you have

0:13:32.800 --> 0:13:34.920
<v Speaker 2>or what kind of journalists you call yourself. You don't

0:13:34.920 --> 0:13:37.600
<v Speaker 2>tell the music what it is. The music tells you.

0:13:37.600 --> 0:13:40.880
<v Speaker 2>You don't say, oh, this isn't jazz. Fuck you. Jazz

0:13:41.000 --> 0:13:46.280
<v Speaker 2>isn't dead. Nothing's dead. Jazz is still writing chapters and verses.

0:13:47.080 --> 0:13:50.440
<v Speaker 2>Rock is still saying none on this hip hop is

0:13:50.440 --> 0:13:53.199
<v Speaker 2>You're clear, it's still ever expanding, you know, saying no,

0:13:53.280 --> 0:13:55.439
<v Speaker 2>that's not hip hop, that's not country to me. No

0:13:55.600 --> 0:13:58.400
<v Speaker 2>it's not country to you, but country tells me what

0:13:58.480 --> 0:14:03.079
<v Speaker 2>country is. I understood that it was imperative that one

0:14:03.120 --> 0:14:06.240
<v Speaker 2>of us, one of us had to get out ahead

0:14:06.280 --> 0:14:08.800
<v Speaker 2>of that thing this time and not feel the burden

0:14:08.800 --> 0:14:12.280
<v Speaker 2>that Prince and Michael felt and others felt to maintain

0:14:12.400 --> 0:14:16.199
<v Speaker 2>that other pillar that they represented. And you know, this

0:14:16.240 --> 0:14:18.360
<v Speaker 2>is why I've also set to people as well as

0:14:18.440 --> 0:14:20.080
<v Speaker 2>much of a pain in the ASCID was to come

0:14:20.120 --> 0:14:23.720
<v Speaker 2>behind Michael and Prince. What a stroke of tremendous fortune

0:14:23.720 --> 0:14:27.000
<v Speaker 2>to be as creatively inspired and curious as I have

0:14:27.080 --> 0:14:30.200
<v Speaker 2>been blessed to be, and to be behind two bona

0:14:30.280 --> 0:14:33.240
<v Speaker 2>fide fucking geniuses. These cats were for real. These guys

0:14:33.280 --> 0:14:37.720
<v Speaker 2>were giants. And you were either gonna shrink like you know,

0:14:37.720 --> 0:14:40.280
<v Speaker 2>coming after the Beagles, or you saw it as your license.

0:14:40.760 --> 0:14:43.600
<v Speaker 2>There's no excuse not to just keep pushing this thing

0:14:44.160 --> 0:14:50.200
<v Speaker 2>when you've come behind to groundbreaking lifetime achievement type dudes

0:14:50.240 --> 0:14:52.800
<v Speaker 2>like Prince and Michael. But Michael was involved, in this

0:14:52.880 --> 0:14:56.520
<v Speaker 2>because also by the time he inherited the Beatles catalog.

0:14:56.720 --> 0:14:59.600
<v Speaker 2>Another great irony is that the very music that woke

0:14:59.640 --> 0:15:02.920
<v Speaker 2>me up in this life, the Beatles, when Michael got

0:15:02.920 --> 0:15:05.400
<v Speaker 2>a hold of it, that was the very music that

0:15:05.520 --> 0:15:08.960
<v Speaker 2>kind of killed the battery charge on that life as well,

0:15:09.000 --> 0:15:10.360
<v Speaker 2>like okay, boom.

0:15:09.920 --> 0:15:11.200
<v Speaker 1>Ah, too much power?

0:15:11.720 --> 0:15:14.200
<v Speaker 2>Well, who am I to say? Too much power? He

0:15:14.280 --> 0:15:17.400
<v Speaker 2>had power. And then of course the game began when

0:15:17.400 --> 0:15:19.440
<v Speaker 2>he got the catalog because Sony knew they want to

0:15:19.440 --> 0:15:22.480
<v Speaker 2>go in business with him. So basically, whatever you want, Michael,

0:15:22.480 --> 0:15:24.960
<v Speaker 2>fuck you want this guy? Is this guy paying your ass?

0:15:25.240 --> 0:15:28.800
<v Speaker 2>No problem? Because before he bought the Beatles Catalog, the

0:15:28.920 --> 0:15:31.200
<v Speaker 2>question they had to ask him was okay, but Michael,

0:15:31.240 --> 0:15:35.040
<v Speaker 2>can you replace his sales and yours? I don't know.

0:15:35.800 --> 0:15:40.520
<v Speaker 2>But when he had that catalog and Sony's half, even

0:15:40.560 --> 0:15:45.000
<v Speaker 2>in the nineties, was already over half a billion, yeah

0:15:45.360 --> 0:15:48.440
<v Speaker 2>a year, And forgetting that it wasn't just in not

0:15:48.440 --> 0:15:51.760
<v Speaker 2>forgetting It wasn't just the Beatles catalog. The Beatles songs

0:15:51.800 --> 0:15:55.440
<v Speaker 2>were the jewel of that catalog. He also had all

0:15:55.480 --> 0:15:58.200
<v Speaker 2>the sly stuff, had all the little richer stuff. He

0:15:58.280 --> 0:16:02.600
<v Speaker 2>had one hundred country music number one hits. That was

0:16:02.600 --> 0:16:07.240
<v Speaker 2>a copiously fat, thick docket. You mean, so from that

0:16:07.280 --> 0:16:11.160
<v Speaker 2>point onwards, you know, it was like, yeah, they gave him.

0:16:11.560 --> 0:16:13.040
<v Speaker 2>He wasn't very comfortable with me.

0:16:17.840 --> 0:16:20.880
<v Speaker 1>I promised to wrap this up because trust me, like

0:16:21.160 --> 0:16:23.600
<v Speaker 1>Jimmy Jam gave me seven hours. It was only supposed

0:16:23.640 --> 0:16:25.680
<v Speaker 1>to be one hour, and Jimmy Jam gave me seven.

0:16:25.840 --> 0:16:28.680
<v Speaker 1>So I will pull out every story, but I will

0:16:28.720 --> 0:16:30.920
<v Speaker 1>I will be sustinct and wrap this up because I'm

0:16:30.920 --> 0:16:31.920
<v Speaker 1>also got a chance.

0:16:31.760 --> 0:16:33.960
<v Speaker 2>To work with jelly Bean on this. On this project,

0:16:34.000 --> 0:16:36.920
<v Speaker 2>I did this song with jelly Bean. Really yeah, I

0:16:36.920 --> 0:16:39.720
<v Speaker 2>can't remember what is his name, walk On walk On?

0:16:39.800 --> 0:16:42.000
<v Speaker 2>His name he approached me last year and said he

0:16:42.360 --> 0:16:44.600
<v Speaker 2>wanted me to participate with him if I would, I

0:16:44.680 --> 0:16:47.680
<v Speaker 2>told him, look, just on principle alone, you guys were

0:16:47.720 --> 0:16:50.320
<v Speaker 2>such a huge part of you know, my situation and

0:16:50.400 --> 0:16:53.440
<v Speaker 2>the time in various projects you guys worked on. So

0:16:53.480 --> 0:16:56.320
<v Speaker 2>I said sure. So basically we wound up collaborating on

0:16:56.360 --> 0:16:59.200
<v Speaker 2>this on this piece, and it was really cool because

0:16:59.240 --> 0:17:02.120
<v Speaker 2>it was also the very last session of Ronnie Drayton

0:17:02.880 --> 0:17:06.119
<v Speaker 2>because on us Yeah, I was gonna play the guitar

0:17:06.240 --> 0:17:08.200
<v Speaker 2>solo and then.

0:17:08.320 --> 0:17:12.640
<v Speaker 1>See, I don't have liner notes. So thus, damn, that's crazy.

0:17:12.920 --> 0:17:16.119
<v Speaker 2>We'll get you whatever you need because, uh, there's a

0:17:16.119 --> 0:17:18.720
<v Speaker 2>gentleman named Oscar Derrek Brown. He was a very very

0:17:18.720 --> 0:17:21.919
<v Speaker 2>good friend of Ronnie's, and so when he told Ronnie

0:17:21.920 --> 0:17:24.520
<v Speaker 2>what I was doing, Ronnie said, oh, I want to

0:17:24.520 --> 0:17:26.320
<v Speaker 2>play the solo. I want to And when I heard,

0:17:26.320 --> 0:17:29.479
<v Speaker 2>I was like, please, please, I will be honored. So

0:17:30.040 --> 0:17:32.159
<v Speaker 2>it was apparently the last thing he kind of did

0:17:32.240 --> 0:17:34.399
<v Speaker 2>professionally that were aware of, and I feel blessed to

0:17:34.400 --> 0:17:37.400
<v Speaker 2>have participate with him because you know, he's he's definitely

0:17:37.440 --> 0:17:40.639
<v Speaker 2>one of the unsung heroes of the time. I was

0:17:40.640 --> 0:17:42.800
<v Speaker 2>coming through with his work with like Vernon in the

0:17:42.800 --> 0:17:44.280
<v Speaker 2>Black Rock Coalition and all of that.

0:17:44.600 --> 0:17:47.920
<v Speaker 1>Yes, the legendary Ronnie Drayton by the way, Yeah, I

0:17:48.000 --> 0:17:51.280
<v Speaker 1>didn't even get to this new album, but literally like

0:17:51.880 --> 0:17:56.640
<v Speaker 1>nice things cam Town, Yeah, like those are my that's

0:17:56.680 --> 0:17:58.879
<v Speaker 1>my ship, man. I love that.

0:17:59.640 --> 0:18:03.000
<v Speaker 2>You know that The moonishment about being careful of meeting

0:18:03.040 --> 0:18:06.160
<v Speaker 2>your heroes. Bruce Springsteen has been like a big brother

0:18:06.200 --> 0:18:09.560
<v Speaker 2>to me. Prince was is still I'm still close to him,

0:18:09.920 --> 0:18:13.200
<v Speaker 2>and Miles played a pivotal role in my situation. Michael

0:18:13.320 --> 0:18:15.280
<v Speaker 2>wasn't just one of those situations. It was just one

0:18:15.280 --> 0:18:16.040
<v Speaker 2>of those things.

0:18:15.800 --> 0:18:17.159
<v Speaker 1>Where he was competitive.

0:18:17.480 --> 0:18:19.159
<v Speaker 2>I want to make this clear. Not only was he

0:18:19.200 --> 0:18:21.960
<v Speaker 2>a competitive but but you know, in a perfect world,

0:18:22.000 --> 0:18:24.520
<v Speaker 2>he would have seen me as like a gold like okay,

0:18:24.520 --> 0:18:26.760
<v Speaker 2>I'm going sure this month right, and we'd have done

0:18:26.800 --> 0:18:29.960
<v Speaker 2>that Beatles Stones who thing where we just try to

0:18:29.960 --> 0:18:30.640
<v Speaker 2>top each other.

0:18:30.720 --> 0:18:32.959
<v Speaker 1>You know, I would have been here for it. I'm sorry,

0:18:33.160 --> 0:18:34.239
<v Speaker 1>I would have been here for it.

0:18:34.280 --> 0:18:36.119
<v Speaker 2>But you know by that time he was maybe just tired,

0:18:36.200 --> 0:18:38.600
<v Speaker 2>like look whatever. But the point I'm trying to make

0:18:38.720 --> 0:18:41.199
<v Speaker 2>is this, he didn't know me a damn thing. His

0:18:41.240 --> 0:18:43.640
<v Speaker 2>life provided for my life exactly what it was meant

0:18:43.880 --> 0:18:47.280
<v Speaker 2>to provide. And there's also a very very good chance

0:18:47.600 --> 0:18:49.960
<v Speaker 2>that by getting in my way, he might have spared

0:18:50.000 --> 0:18:50.560
<v Speaker 2>me his faith.

0:18:50.960 --> 0:18:54.119
<v Speaker 1>You literally just answered the question that I was going

0:18:54.240 --> 0:18:54.639
<v Speaker 1>to ask.

0:18:55.119 --> 0:18:57.920
<v Speaker 2>Yes, he might have saved my life and getting in

0:18:57.960 --> 0:19:02.040
<v Speaker 2>front of me giving me more longevity because you know,

0:19:02.080 --> 0:19:04.919
<v Speaker 2>I was even asked earlier in an interview with your

0:19:05.000 --> 0:19:07.520
<v Speaker 2>voice you still sound the same as four years ago

0:19:07.960 --> 0:19:10.280
<v Speaker 2>and how compared to whatever? And I said. But you

0:19:10.359 --> 0:19:14.040
<v Speaker 2>know the truth is they didn't burn me out. I didn't.

0:19:14.080 --> 0:19:16.399
<v Speaker 2>They didn't have a chance to burn me out. And

0:19:16.440 --> 0:19:18.720
<v Speaker 2>I said, so many of my colleagues were just burned out,

0:19:18.760 --> 0:19:20.960
<v Speaker 2>and it was just doing what they could to keep

0:19:21.040 --> 0:19:24.560
<v Speaker 2>up with it. And you know, when Whitney lost her

0:19:24.640 --> 0:19:27.600
<v Speaker 2>voice at the end, I was so moved because I realized,

0:19:27.680 --> 0:19:30.160
<v Speaker 2>you know, singers aren't mature to their forties anyway, they

0:19:30.200 --> 0:19:34.280
<v Speaker 2>look out themselves even moderately well. But I realized she

0:19:34.359 --> 0:19:36.800
<v Speaker 2>hadn't lost her voice. With the sound of what you

0:19:36.840 --> 0:19:38.600
<v Speaker 2>were hearing was a woman who had lost her heart

0:19:39.200 --> 0:19:41.879
<v Speaker 2>because she was all hard and the voice is just

0:19:42.000 --> 0:19:44.520
<v Speaker 2>a conduit. It's just an amp. It's not the guitar.

0:19:45.040 --> 0:19:48.639
<v Speaker 2>The guitar is the guitar. The voice is the amp. Okay,

0:19:48.720 --> 0:19:51.280
<v Speaker 2>if your guitar is fucked, the strings are broken, your

0:19:51.320 --> 0:19:53.720
<v Speaker 2>heart is broken, and you don't really want to be

0:19:53.760 --> 0:19:57.680
<v Speaker 2>doing that anymore. Obviously, it's gonna show and what comes

0:19:57.720 --> 0:19:59.680
<v Speaker 2>through you what comes out of you. And I felt

0:19:59.680 --> 0:20:02.679
<v Speaker 2>that the thing was she wasn't just trying to destroy

0:20:02.720 --> 0:20:04.800
<v Speaker 2>her voice. She was trying to destroy that life that

0:20:04.880 --> 0:20:08.239
<v Speaker 2>held her in bondage and just became too much. And

0:20:08.280 --> 0:20:10.880
<v Speaker 2>you know, from our Native American heritage, we don't believe

0:20:10.920 --> 0:20:13.199
<v Speaker 2>in death anyway. The way it's taught in the West,

0:20:13.760 --> 0:20:16.320
<v Speaker 2>and so you know, she wasn't obliged to be with

0:20:16.400 --> 0:20:20.880
<v Speaker 2>us raggedy motherfuckers one minute past realizing she had done

0:20:20.960 --> 0:20:23.159
<v Speaker 2>what she had come to do. She had blessed the

0:20:23.200 --> 0:20:26.159
<v Speaker 2>souls and the lives. I just saw her movie. I

0:20:26.160 --> 0:20:28.840
<v Speaker 2>had on a carousel for two years. Question yet and

0:20:28.880 --> 0:20:31.479
<v Speaker 2>I just because I had her in Aretha's life stories

0:20:31.520 --> 0:20:34.440
<v Speaker 2>on the to watch list, because I knew those lives

0:20:34.480 --> 0:20:37.040
<v Speaker 2>reverberated so close to my own that I have to

0:20:37.080 --> 0:20:40.640
<v Speaker 2>be ready and prepared psychologically to digest those stories because

0:20:40.680 --> 0:20:43.280
<v Speaker 2>those stories are my stories as well. So you know,

0:20:43.320 --> 0:20:47.720
<v Speaker 2>I had forgotten how many like just groundbreaking records, WOULDN'TY had,

0:20:47.760 --> 0:20:51.440
<v Speaker 2>you know, broken and and just like wow. But it's

0:20:51.440 --> 0:20:53.679
<v Speaker 2>the same with Prince. You know, you do what you

0:20:53.760 --> 0:20:57.879
<v Speaker 2>come to do, and sometimes spirit says, I will not

0:20:58.000 --> 0:21:01.480
<v Speaker 2>let you be abused one second long because a life

0:21:01.600 --> 0:21:03.960
<v Speaker 2>is easy to replace, a soul is a little harder,

0:21:04.680 --> 0:21:06.240
<v Speaker 2>So you know what I'm saying to you. So I

0:21:06.240 --> 0:21:09.880
<v Speaker 2>feel like those were taken from us to preserve what

0:21:09.920 --> 0:21:13.880
<v Speaker 2>they were and for further service. Because the angels recycle.

0:21:14.520 --> 0:21:17.160
<v Speaker 2>You know, it's like only twelve these motherfuckers and they

0:21:17.320 --> 0:21:20.760
<v Speaker 2>play all the roles they're necessary play is MENI roles

0:21:20.840 --> 0:21:25.520
<v Speaker 2>needed like traveling Shakespearean troupe, where this time you're the dad,

0:21:25.840 --> 0:21:28.400
<v Speaker 2>next time imbi popper. But we all travel together because

0:21:28.400 --> 0:21:29.920
<v Speaker 2>we all know each other and we all trust each

0:21:29.920 --> 0:21:32.359
<v Speaker 2>other to play these roles for us. So I have

0:21:32.400 --> 0:21:36.320
<v Speaker 2>no doubt that me and Michael were very, very very close,

0:21:36.640 --> 0:21:40.679
<v Speaker 2>and that's perhaps why he fucked my shit up, because

0:21:40.720 --> 0:21:42.800
<v Speaker 2>it was in so doing he spared my life. And

0:21:43.600 --> 0:21:46.840
<v Speaker 2>I'm able now to have this conversation twenty twenty four

0:21:47.600 --> 0:21:51.600
<v Speaker 2>with you, another person whose life has been greatly touched

0:21:51.640 --> 0:21:55.560
<v Speaker 2>by the magic Joll's geniuses laid down by the way.

0:21:56.080 --> 0:21:58.880
<v Speaker 2>I also am happy to hear that you I had

0:21:58.880 --> 0:22:01.639
<v Speaker 2>some influence because when you guys first came through, it

0:22:01.680 --> 0:22:04.479
<v Speaker 2>was same with Erica. You're not always sure if it's

0:22:04.520 --> 0:22:07.760
<v Speaker 2>your vanity or your pride, but sometimes you can feel

0:22:07.920 --> 0:22:10.920
<v Speaker 2>like when your spirit is a part of somebody else,

0:22:12.240 --> 0:22:14.520
<v Speaker 2>it doesn't have to be anything specific, it's just a

0:22:14.680 --> 0:22:17.680
<v Speaker 2>vibe and you go like, yeah, I think these guys

0:22:17.760 --> 0:22:19.200
<v Speaker 2>might have been listening to my records, you know what

0:22:19.240 --> 0:22:23.560
<v Speaker 2>I mean. You think it's always really short, and when

0:22:23.560 --> 0:22:26.879
<v Speaker 2>you find out that yes, there is a family, and we,

0:22:27.080 --> 0:22:29.080
<v Speaker 2>like I said before, we do travel together, and we

0:22:29.119 --> 0:22:32.480
<v Speaker 2>perform the works and the miracles that we're here to perform,

0:22:32.720 --> 0:22:34.480
<v Speaker 2>and we pack up the caravan and we move on

0:22:34.560 --> 0:22:35.440
<v Speaker 2>to the next performance.

0:22:35.800 --> 0:22:37.920
<v Speaker 1>I swear to God man if allowed to at least

0:22:38.680 --> 0:22:42.199
<v Speaker 1>refer to that other non diplume of yours, which was

0:22:42.280 --> 0:22:45.240
<v Speaker 1>e G. O'Reilly, like I was your number one disciple,

0:22:45.520 --> 0:22:51.280
<v Speaker 1>like literally for that. My closing question is your rebirth

0:22:51.359 --> 0:22:56.280
<v Speaker 1>with angels and vampires. Yes, where you're on your own

0:22:56.440 --> 0:22:59.760
<v Speaker 1>and you're out of the system. Can you just walk

0:22:59.800 --> 0:23:06.320
<v Speaker 1>me through kind of your caterpillar to butterfly transition to

0:23:07.080 --> 0:23:09.560
<v Speaker 1>where you are now? Because the thing was is that

0:23:09.960 --> 0:23:15.879
<v Speaker 1>I just thought after well, Vibrator Wildcart was the last

0:23:15.880 --> 0:23:21.000
<v Speaker 1>Sony record Vibrator Vibrator Okay. So Wildcourt was your first

0:23:21.119 --> 0:23:23.639
<v Speaker 1>project on your own correst okay, And.

0:23:23.760 --> 0:23:26.919
<v Speaker 2>It was actually created, It was created. This is an

0:23:26.960 --> 0:23:30.040
<v Speaker 2>interesting story if I can. Yes, it was created for

0:23:30.119 --> 0:23:33.080
<v Speaker 2>capital because I had ten years I had spent trying

0:23:33.080 --> 0:23:36.320
<v Speaker 2>to get off of the Sony arrangement. The English had

0:23:36.400 --> 0:23:38.879
<v Speaker 2>let me go. The Americans had been hanging on to it,

0:23:38.920 --> 0:23:41.520
<v Speaker 2>but the English were very reluctant. It was a messy situation,

0:23:41.600 --> 0:23:45.600
<v Speaker 2>but finally I got out of it. Then I was

0:23:45.640 --> 0:23:50.600
<v Speaker 2>supposed to do Sam Cook that the family. I was

0:23:50.640 --> 0:23:52.960
<v Speaker 2>extremely flat aby the family said that was the only

0:23:53.000 --> 0:23:56.240
<v Speaker 2>person they wanted to play Sam. But I couldn't wrap

0:23:56.280 --> 0:23:59.000
<v Speaker 2>my head around the fact that I don't care how

0:23:59.200 --> 0:24:02.000
<v Speaker 2>flattered I am that you think my voice can replace Sam.

0:24:02.400 --> 0:24:06.240
<v Speaker 2>If the movie is about a legend, why would you

0:24:06.400 --> 0:24:10.199
<v Speaker 2>not want to expose his voice? And I also knew that,

0:24:10.480 --> 0:24:12.399
<v Speaker 2>and Sony had made the mistake of saying to my

0:24:12.440 --> 0:24:14.919
<v Speaker 2>manager at the time, why is he coming all this

0:24:15.359 --> 0:24:17.600
<v Speaker 2>in their minds, all this innovative shit. All he has

0:24:17.640 --> 0:24:19.720
<v Speaker 2>to do is make Sam Cook records and we'll promote

0:24:19.760 --> 0:24:20.120
<v Speaker 2>him for life.

0:24:20.119 --> 0:24:22.600
<v Speaker 1>Shut up and sing and make the hits and yeah.

0:24:22.280 --> 0:24:26.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And as much as I idolized Sam Cook, I

0:24:26.480 --> 0:24:28.680
<v Speaker 2>don't want to be buried in his grave. And those

0:24:28.720 --> 0:24:31.200
<v Speaker 2>things can be pyodic victories where you have success. Direcord

0:24:31.240 --> 0:24:33.960
<v Speaker 2>Company pushes it. And now every gig you show up,

0:24:33.960 --> 0:24:36.360
<v Speaker 2>if you don't do some Sam shit, you know they're

0:24:36.400 --> 0:24:40.080
<v Speaker 2>yelling at you're throwing shoes, right, So it was a

0:24:40.080 --> 0:24:43.240
<v Speaker 2>tough decision. But then I had been approached to play

0:24:43.320 --> 0:24:47.080
<v Speaker 2>Sam in the Muhammad Ali film. So I had agreed

0:24:47.119 --> 0:24:50.040
<v Speaker 2>because Michael Mann had really talked me into it. The director.

0:24:50.520 --> 0:24:52.920
<v Speaker 2>I have a lot of time for him, Michael, and

0:24:54.000 --> 0:24:56.280
<v Speaker 2>I was going to do it. And then I get

0:24:56.320 --> 0:24:58.639
<v Speaker 2>a call from Michael Mann saying do me a favor.

0:24:59.480 --> 0:25:01.000
<v Speaker 2>This was a couple days before I was supposed to

0:25:01.000 --> 0:25:03.080
<v Speaker 2>start shooting. He said, I needed to talk to Tommy

0:25:03.119 --> 0:25:05.840
<v Speaker 2>Mottola because Tommy Mottola is trying to fuck with the

0:25:05.880 --> 0:25:08.520
<v Speaker 2>soundtrack because I didn't know that they had the soundtrack.

0:25:08.880 --> 0:25:10.679
<v Speaker 2>So basically I had spent ten years trying to get

0:25:10.680 --> 0:25:13.760
<v Speaker 2>away from Tommy Mottola in that situation, only to find

0:25:13.760 --> 0:25:16.400
<v Speaker 2>out the last minute that if I had song on

0:25:16.440 --> 0:25:20.080
<v Speaker 2>the soundtrack, it would have belonged to Sony and Tommy

0:25:20.640 --> 0:25:24.280
<v Speaker 2>get me to sign another option that he wasn't going

0:25:24.320 --> 0:25:27.719
<v Speaker 2>to release the soundtrack rights to the film until I

0:25:27.760 --> 0:25:30.879
<v Speaker 2>did something for him, And so I basically said to

0:25:30.880 --> 0:25:32.880
<v Speaker 2>Michael Man, I said, well, I thank you very much

0:25:32.880 --> 0:25:36.320
<v Speaker 2>for this opportunity. I would rather go to hell, literally

0:25:36.880 --> 0:25:40.000
<v Speaker 2>with gas strapped to my back than than to deal

0:25:40.040 --> 0:25:42.520
<v Speaker 2>with this guy again. So I bout out of the film.

0:25:42.840 --> 0:25:46.000
<v Speaker 1>Do you believe when I think he said this in

0:25:46.040 --> 0:25:49.720
<v Speaker 1>this book? But before I read his book. He was

0:25:49.760 --> 0:25:52.359
<v Speaker 1>a guest on The Tonight Show, and you know, just

0:25:52.920 --> 0:25:56.320
<v Speaker 1>casual three minute conversation, you know, I kind of always

0:25:56.320 --> 0:25:58.560
<v Speaker 1>ask like, is there an artist that got away or

0:25:58.640 --> 0:26:03.200
<v Speaker 1>like a regret or something like that, and he said

0:26:03.760 --> 0:26:07.160
<v Speaker 1>that it wasn't close to like we could have done

0:26:07.240 --> 0:26:12.159
<v Speaker 1>done better by him. Yeah, but he kind of and

0:26:12.480 --> 0:26:16.200
<v Speaker 1>he said in a very non industry you know, when

0:26:16.240 --> 0:26:18.080
<v Speaker 1>someone has a prepared answer, I.

0:26:18.200 --> 0:26:21.680
<v Speaker 2>Move that you say that, because I get my guides

0:26:21.800 --> 0:26:23.760
<v Speaker 2>if you will. My spirit tells me all the time

0:26:24.720 --> 0:26:27.560
<v Speaker 2>that there was a price that everyone had to pay

0:26:28.000 --> 0:26:30.560
<v Speaker 2>who consciously went into it knowing that they were trying

0:26:30.640 --> 0:26:32.320
<v Speaker 2>because they got caught up to try to teach me

0:26:32.359 --> 0:26:34.880
<v Speaker 2>a lesson. It was like, plus, the other young ones

0:26:34.920 --> 0:26:36.439
<v Speaker 2>are watching, so we have to use him as an

0:26:36.440 --> 0:26:40.120
<v Speaker 2>example of you know, don't cross us. We're the biggest

0:26:40.280 --> 0:26:43.000
<v Speaker 2>record corporation in the world. You do. And you know,

0:26:43.280 --> 0:26:47.520
<v Speaker 2>CBS Columbia were, relative to that situation, a bit more

0:26:47.600 --> 0:26:51.880
<v Speaker 2>left liberal and artist friendly. Sony came in with a real,

0:26:52.880 --> 0:26:56.879
<v Speaker 2>if not necessarily politically right wing attitude, socially right wing.

0:26:56.960 --> 0:26:59.119
<v Speaker 2>The artists do what the fuck we tell them, you know,

0:26:59.240 --> 0:27:03.080
<v Speaker 2>listen to the artists. We're not mow Austin a Warner Brothers.

0:27:03.080 --> 0:27:06.879
<v Speaker 2>This isn't right. You know, we're not virgin records. The

0:27:07.000 --> 0:27:10.399
<v Speaker 2>artist listens to Sony, we tell them, So it started

0:27:10.400 --> 0:27:12.600
<v Speaker 2>off the wrong foot. There was also the fact that

0:27:12.640 --> 0:27:15.720
<v Speaker 2>like were going back to the official flesh. If I

0:27:15.760 --> 0:27:17.360
<v Speaker 2>could go back and do it over again, I would

0:27:17.400 --> 0:27:19.680
<v Speaker 2>probably delay the release by six months because it fell

0:27:19.720 --> 0:27:23.560
<v Speaker 2>in the cuffs between the old regime leaving and being

0:27:24.200 --> 0:27:27.720
<v Speaker 2>taken over by the new incoming Sony regime. So it

0:27:27.760 --> 0:27:31.200
<v Speaker 2>was also one of those situations where the timing. Nothing

0:27:31.240 --> 0:27:34.040
<v Speaker 2>about that situation was friendly. But as I said to you,

0:27:34.080 --> 0:27:37.320
<v Speaker 2>Paul Russell went run. The English company had already told

0:27:37.359 --> 0:27:41.080
<v Speaker 2>me to expect some different shit. But here's also another

0:27:41.119 --> 0:27:44.680
<v Speaker 2>reality question that most guys people don't realize, artists don't realize.

0:27:44.760 --> 0:27:46.720
<v Speaker 2>And your manager for sure is not going to tell you.

0:27:47.040 --> 0:27:50.040
<v Speaker 2>So you go back and you renegotiate your contract. Now

0:27:50.160 --> 0:27:52.040
<v Speaker 2>you get what you should have gotten in the first place,

0:27:52.040 --> 0:27:54.639
<v Speaker 2>as far as you're concerned. But what you don't realize

0:27:54.680 --> 0:27:57.119
<v Speaker 2>is that part of the reason your record was so

0:27:57.280 --> 0:28:00.520
<v Speaker 2>enticing is because they got it for nothing. I was

0:28:00.600 --> 0:28:07.680
<v Speaker 2>signed at the lowest legally binding contract. I was literally

0:28:07.720 --> 0:28:10.480
<v Speaker 2>thirty thousand pounds was the lowest limit that I got

0:28:10.520 --> 0:28:13.119
<v Speaker 2>signed at the time, might have been fifty forty grand

0:28:13.240 --> 0:28:18.520
<v Speaker 2>forty dollars, And so what I didn't realize is it

0:28:18.600 --> 0:28:20.199
<v Speaker 2>was all gravy. We didn't spend a lot on the

0:28:20.200 --> 0:28:24.440
<v Speaker 2>record because the record was pretty much me re recording

0:28:24.440 --> 0:28:28.119
<v Speaker 2>the demos, and so it was just all found money.

0:28:28.680 --> 0:28:30.320
<v Speaker 2>What they don't tell you is you come back now

0:28:30.400 --> 0:28:32.640
<v Speaker 2>you're making serious, serious boom boom. They got to share

0:28:32.640 --> 0:28:35.320
<v Speaker 2>a lot more at overhead. And now I realize to

0:28:35.359 --> 0:28:37.520
<v Speaker 2>get that same money they got before, this is how

0:28:37.560 --> 0:28:41.000
<v Speaker 2>much they're gonna have to spend to get there. Meanwhile,

0:28:42.040 --> 0:28:45.360
<v Speaker 2>what they're gambling on is that, as you've alluded to before,

0:28:45.600 --> 0:28:48.480
<v Speaker 2>there's a new group, a new act that's on their

0:28:48.520 --> 0:28:53.200
<v Speaker 2>first deal. That this is why in the NFL they

0:28:53.240 --> 0:28:57.400
<v Speaker 2>try to maximize that rookie quarterback contract to get the team,

0:28:57.960 --> 0:29:01.480
<v Speaker 2>you know, whatever they need. And it's the same. So

0:29:01.680 --> 0:29:04.000
<v Speaker 2>your manager's not gonna say, no, I'm gonna forfit this

0:29:04.080 --> 0:29:06.840
<v Speaker 2>big alimony check you're about to give me the pass

0:29:06.880 --> 0:29:10.400
<v Speaker 2>it on to my situation. I'm gonna you shouldn't do this.

0:29:10.600 --> 0:29:13.360
<v Speaker 2>You should stay on the same thing, but you should

0:29:13.400 --> 0:29:16.560
<v Speaker 2>instead just up your points. They don't tell you that

0:29:16.560 --> 0:29:19.680
<v Speaker 2>that basically you can become a victim of your success.

0:29:19.760 --> 0:29:23.120
<v Speaker 2>Where among the other machinations that were happening around it,

0:29:23.200 --> 0:29:27.360
<v Speaker 2>the perfect storm that I walked into, you've basically made

0:29:27.400 --> 0:29:32.120
<v Speaker 2>yourself less financially viable and exploitative simply because you're getting

0:29:32.120 --> 0:29:35.200
<v Speaker 2>now a bigger piece of the pie for you.

0:29:35.320 --> 0:29:39.080
<v Speaker 1>What is a good takeaway? Because I know they're pros,

0:29:39.160 --> 0:29:42.320
<v Speaker 1>and I know that they're cons to the situation.

0:29:43.120 --> 0:29:45.040
<v Speaker 2>Well, first of all, let me just say this about

0:29:45.040 --> 0:29:48.600
<v Speaker 2>the Tommy regime. First of all, I was a yetnikov guy.

0:29:48.680 --> 0:29:51.560
<v Speaker 2>I idolized Walter Yetnikoff because I grew up reading books

0:29:51.880 --> 0:29:55.840
<v Speaker 2>that backed into I grew up reading Billboard magazine in

0:29:55.880 --> 0:29:58.680
<v Speaker 2>the school library, and not even walti yet Nicoff. So

0:29:58.720 --> 0:30:00.600
<v Speaker 2>I knew he was. I knew his storm, I knew

0:30:00.640 --> 0:30:04.000
<v Speaker 2>his history. I knew he had succeeded Clive Davis. He

0:30:04.120 --> 0:30:06.320
<v Speaker 2>was a rock star to me. We hit it off

0:30:06.440 --> 0:30:10.000
<v Speaker 2>like he was my Brooklyn Jewish uncle. He was that dude.

0:30:10.440 --> 0:30:13.440
<v Speaker 2>He was moved that I spoke Yiddish, that in the German.

0:30:13.480 --> 0:30:16.200
<v Speaker 2>We just had a vibe that he just never had.

0:30:16.880 --> 0:30:21.240
<v Speaker 2>Now here's the irony. It did occur to me later

0:30:21.400 --> 0:30:24.040
<v Speaker 2>that once again it could have been because of Michael

0:30:24.480 --> 0:30:28.400
<v Speaker 2>and getting Michael's attention that Walter decided to really pushed

0:30:28.440 --> 0:30:30.640
<v Speaker 2>me because I was I had broken all over the world.

0:30:31.120 --> 0:30:34.240
<v Speaker 2>And to be fair to Tommy Matola, he wasn't that

0:30:34.400 --> 0:30:37.560
<v Speaker 2>enthusiastic about me at any point in my career. He

0:30:37.720 --> 0:30:42.160
<v Speaker 2>just thought I was his hype. So really, well, he

0:30:42.320 --> 0:30:44.680
<v Speaker 2>wasn't a big no. He was never there. He always

0:30:44.680 --> 0:30:48.320
<v Speaker 2>thought Walter was over indulging me, and blah blah blah.

0:30:48.320 --> 0:30:50.680
<v Speaker 1>That was Walter's guy, not my guy. So okay, yeah,

0:30:50.680 --> 0:30:51.160
<v Speaker 1>I get it now.

0:30:51.240 --> 0:30:54.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. And plus when he took over, see the thing

0:30:54.920 --> 0:30:58.600
<v Speaker 2>is between again my first and second records, Walter was

0:30:58.600 --> 0:31:03.480
<v Speaker 2>in rehab. So Walter was in Minnesota drying out at

0:31:04.640 --> 0:31:08.960
<v Speaker 2>John Hopkins. The Japanese get a call from Tarry Mottola. Hey,

0:31:09.240 --> 0:31:11.600
<v Speaker 2>your boy's coked out of his mind. He's in reality,

0:31:11.640 --> 0:31:15.000
<v Speaker 2>he's loose mining the store. Me, Tarry Mattola, I'm minding

0:31:15.040 --> 0:31:19.200
<v Speaker 2>the store. Basically, Mattola was yet Nikoll's fined. He was

0:31:19.200 --> 0:31:21.160
<v Speaker 2>his lieutenant. He was the one who put him in

0:31:21.160 --> 0:31:24.560
<v Speaker 2>that situation. So when Motola turned around and did what

0:31:24.640 --> 0:31:28.040
<v Speaker 2>he did to basically bust yet Nikov that got the

0:31:28.120 --> 0:31:32.000
<v Speaker 2>Japanese to replace him. From that point anyway, I was

0:31:32.080 --> 0:31:36.040
<v Speaker 2>I'm a loyal dude. I mean, that was my guy man, right,

0:31:36.040 --> 0:31:38.280
<v Speaker 2>and now you want me to switch my loyalty to you.

0:31:38.720 --> 0:31:41.000
<v Speaker 2>And you wear like short black socks with your like

0:31:41.040 --> 0:31:43.720
<v Speaker 2>hair sticking out between your pants leg and your socks

0:31:43.720 --> 0:31:45.880
<v Speaker 2>and shit, looking like some southern black dudes from the fifties.

0:31:46.400 --> 0:31:48.400
<v Speaker 2>And I remember him giving me a letter, a little

0:31:48.480 --> 0:31:51.800
<v Speaker 2>letter that Michael had written to me to get gave

0:31:51.920 --> 0:31:54.280
<v Speaker 2>to him to give to me, and I could already

0:31:54.320 --> 0:31:58.120
<v Speaker 2>see the writing on the wall, okay, because Tommy would

0:31:58.120 --> 0:32:01.160
<v Speaker 2>have still had to have support from somebody artists to

0:32:01.200 --> 0:32:04.800
<v Speaker 2>get the Japanese to part ways with Yetnikov, because that

0:32:04.880 --> 0:32:10.000
<v Speaker 2>was Yetnikov's strongest suit, his relationships with the artists. So basically,

0:32:10.240 --> 0:32:13.160
<v Speaker 2>you know, once he had secured a certain group of

0:32:13.280 --> 0:32:18.080
<v Speaker 2>artists support, he didn't. I was expendable. I was expendable

0:32:18.080 --> 0:32:23.680
<v Speaker 2>to cause, as they would say. But so in all

0:32:23.720 --> 0:32:25.800
<v Speaker 2>fairness to him, we never really hit it off. But

0:32:26.440 --> 0:32:28.560
<v Speaker 2>at the same time, when I saw what he did

0:32:28.600 --> 0:32:31.800
<v Speaker 2>to Walter, I just thought, Nah, this guy gives me

0:32:31.840 --> 0:32:34.400
<v Speaker 2>the he used to say in German, gives me the agel.

0:32:35.960 --> 0:32:39.240
<v Speaker 2>I didn't feel comfortable with him, and of course he

0:32:39.320 --> 0:32:41.680
<v Speaker 2>fell out with Michael later as well. All that, but

0:32:42.000 --> 0:32:46.000
<v Speaker 2>my take on it was this, that regime that featured

0:32:46.040 --> 0:32:50.360
<v Speaker 2>Donnie Einer, Michelle Anthony, those three, they were the three

0:32:50.360 --> 0:32:54.000
<v Speaker 2>big hanchos. I was struck by how they had bigger

0:32:54.000 --> 0:32:57.560
<v Speaker 2>egos than the artists, that they wanted to be the

0:32:57.640 --> 0:33:00.440
<v Speaker 2>rock stars, and in fact that was the journal With

0:33:00.480 --> 0:33:02.320
<v Speaker 2>all due respect to him because he's worked his ass

0:33:02.360 --> 0:33:04.440
<v Speaker 2>off and I know he's a great musician, but Randy

0:33:04.520 --> 0:33:07.040
<v Speaker 2>Jackson belonged to that whole regime as well, and then

0:33:07.120 --> 0:33:10.760
<v Speaker 2>Randy wound up being bigger as a celebrity, you know.

0:33:11.000 --> 0:33:13.080
<v Speaker 2>So the point is, but that was the ethos that

0:33:13.120 --> 0:33:15.560
<v Speaker 2>I was dealing with, that I had never had a

0:33:15.560 --> 0:33:18.640
<v Speaker 2>meeting with Donnie Einer. Well, this motherfucker wasn't talking more

0:33:18.640 --> 0:33:21.800
<v Speaker 2>about himself and what he had done, then why we

0:33:21.800 --> 0:33:23.520
<v Speaker 2>were there to have the meeting in the first place.

0:33:24.160 --> 0:33:27.320
<v Speaker 2>And Michelle used to take me for limo rides when

0:33:27.320 --> 0:33:29.840
<v Speaker 2>I would come to New York from London and just

0:33:29.880 --> 0:33:33.360
<v Speaker 2>impress upon me how important a jewel I was in

0:33:33.400 --> 0:33:36.200
<v Speaker 2>the crown. The sony crown, right, So one point I

0:33:36.200 --> 0:33:39.720
<v Speaker 2>get annoyed. Will hear her saying this? And I said, well, Michelle,

0:33:40.360 --> 0:33:42.520
<v Speaker 2>which one of the diamonds am I? And by one

0:33:42.520 --> 0:33:44.640
<v Speaker 2>of them like pave diamonds on the back, you know

0:33:44.680 --> 0:33:47.280
<v Speaker 2>that gets caught underneath the neck like you can't see

0:33:47.320 --> 0:33:49.440
<v Speaker 2>them because the neck hairs, the nappy hairs get all

0:33:49.480 --> 0:33:52.680
<v Speaker 2>like you mean, I'm that part of the crown, you know?

0:33:53.040 --> 0:33:54.800
<v Speaker 2>Or am I one of these jewels at the middle

0:33:54.840 --> 0:33:56.760
<v Speaker 2>where no matter what your hair looks like, you can

0:33:56.840 --> 0:33:59.960
<v Speaker 2>see that's this motherfucker right here, you know. And it's

0:34:00.200 --> 0:34:03.080
<v Speaker 2>point she got embarrassed and stopped dropping Atlanta because I

0:34:03.080 --> 0:34:05.800
<v Speaker 2>didn't want to hear that. Right, They didn't know what

0:34:05.880 --> 0:34:08.480
<v Speaker 2>to do with me, and no matter in which Walch did,

0:34:08.960 --> 0:34:12.640
<v Speaker 2>but what they did that different than Walter was Walters.

0:34:13.040 --> 0:34:17.879
<v Speaker 2>I trust this guy's Benji. He just proved something out

0:34:17.880 --> 0:34:20.560
<v Speaker 2>of nowhere to left field. I had Doug Morris, who

0:34:20.640 --> 0:34:24.480
<v Speaker 2>used to run Atlantic, who up until that point when

0:34:24.520 --> 0:34:25.880
<v Speaker 2>he was trying to talk me to come in with

0:34:25.960 --> 0:34:28.080
<v Speaker 2>his company, he said, I had been in the business

0:34:28.120 --> 0:34:31.480
<v Speaker 2>for forty years. I've never seen anybody, even Elvis, Nobody

0:34:31.520 --> 0:34:34.120
<v Speaker 2>came through the way you did. He said, yeah, well

0:34:34.120 --> 0:34:36.000
<v Speaker 2>I pay for that because it freaked people out, and

0:34:36.040 --> 0:34:38.400
<v Speaker 2>so I had to answer for all of that. And then,

0:34:38.480 --> 0:34:40.040
<v Speaker 2>like I said, when they find out that you're not

0:34:40.120 --> 0:34:45.359
<v Speaker 2>interested in just representing a bunch of bullshit, they're not

0:34:45.400 --> 0:34:47.399
<v Speaker 2>going to be comfortable sharing their power with you because

0:34:47.440 --> 0:34:50.279
<v Speaker 2>they can see who you are and nobody's trying to

0:34:50.360 --> 0:34:54.120
<v Speaker 2>upset the status quo. That's not their job. So it's

0:34:54.120 --> 0:34:56.400
<v Speaker 2>not like I don't understand. It's not like I can't

0:34:57.480 --> 0:34:59.120
<v Speaker 2>come to terms with the fact that I was an

0:34:59.120 --> 0:35:02.319
<v Speaker 2>inconvenient man for the time and the place. But I

0:35:02.360 --> 0:35:04.239
<v Speaker 2>did what spirit asked me to do. I laid the

0:35:04.280 --> 0:35:07.440
<v Speaker 2>seeds in the ground, and I'm still reaping the whorldwind

0:35:07.520 --> 0:35:10.520
<v Speaker 2>and the benefits of them close to forty years later.

0:35:11.000 --> 0:35:14.239
<v Speaker 2>And it's what allows me to talk to you and

0:35:14.280 --> 0:35:17.799
<v Speaker 2>have this conversation without having had to sell more than

0:35:17.800 --> 0:35:20.440
<v Speaker 2>I was capable of remanifesting, if you will.

0:35:20.600 --> 0:35:23.960
<v Speaker 1>What's your relationship with the material? Though, like, because there's

0:35:24.000 --> 0:35:27.080
<v Speaker 1>two sides of you and is a Burnham sum of

0:35:27.160 --> 0:35:28.799
<v Speaker 1>a fan is yelling out like.

0:35:29.000 --> 0:35:32.720
<v Speaker 2>No, no c or seven more. You know, at this point,

0:35:32.920 --> 0:35:35.719
<v Speaker 2>at this point, about five or six, seven years ago,

0:35:35.800 --> 0:35:38.520
<v Speaker 2>I opened the whole thing back up. It was imperative

0:35:38.640 --> 0:35:43.160
<v Speaker 2>upon me to lock out that part and focus on

0:35:43.239 --> 0:35:46.600
<v Speaker 2>growing the garden of post millium Rock. The other guarden

0:35:46.600 --> 0:35:50.360
<v Speaker 2>didn't need my help. They already had a major corporation

0:35:51.239 --> 0:35:55.399
<v Speaker 2>who co sponsors those first four records with me. They

0:35:55.400 --> 0:35:57.359
<v Speaker 2>were taking care of that. I didn't have to do

0:35:57.400 --> 0:35:59.160
<v Speaker 2>that work. I just had to work the fields that

0:35:59.200 --> 0:36:02.480
<v Speaker 2>I was preparing for where I am now. So for

0:36:02.520 --> 0:36:05.719
<v Speaker 2>a long time I made every sacrifice necessary to not

0:36:07.000 --> 0:36:09.200
<v Speaker 2>burden people with that reality that you're coming to see

0:36:09.239 --> 0:36:12.160
<v Speaker 2>me under a false impression. I made it clear even

0:36:12.239 --> 0:36:16.240
<v Speaker 2>the venues that I chose to play were deliberately intended

0:36:16.280 --> 0:36:18.360
<v Speaker 2>that I didn't have to feel extra burden of pressure

0:36:18.680 --> 0:36:21.080
<v Speaker 2>to sell out a place ten thousand people or whatever.

0:36:21.560 --> 0:36:24.759
<v Speaker 2>If you know, I can only realistically get, you know,

0:36:24.880 --> 0:36:28.640
<v Speaker 2>five hundred people in this place based on what this

0:36:28.680 --> 0:36:30.880
<v Speaker 2>town is based on this blah blah blah blah blah.

0:36:31.080 --> 0:36:33.800
<v Speaker 2>I'm more than willing to do that while taking advantage

0:36:33.840 --> 0:36:35.359
<v Speaker 2>of the fact that the first time around, I didn't

0:36:35.360 --> 0:36:38.440
<v Speaker 2>spend enough time in these places anyway. So it was

0:36:38.520 --> 0:36:39.839
<v Speaker 2>kind of a way for me to kill two birds

0:36:39.840 --> 0:36:42.160
<v Speaker 2>at one stone. But then of course the time when

0:36:42.480 --> 0:36:45.360
<v Speaker 2>even Sony came back and said, we already if you

0:36:45.400 --> 0:36:47.799
<v Speaker 2>were willing to work with us and collaborate with us

0:36:48.000 --> 0:36:50.759
<v Speaker 2>on your first four projects that we co own with you,

0:36:51.760 --> 0:36:53.600
<v Speaker 2>we are willing to do whatever it is that you

0:36:54.080 --> 0:36:58.080
<v Speaker 2>deem necessary. And I said, well, the message has been consistent.

0:36:58.520 --> 0:37:01.799
<v Speaker 2>You change everything to annda my fare, or I have

0:37:01.840 --> 0:37:06.080
<v Speaker 2>no interest in working against my own interest. You know

0:37:06.400 --> 0:37:09.879
<v Speaker 2>that's already been established. So we came to those conclusions.

0:37:10.040 --> 0:37:12.239
<v Speaker 2>The bottom line of changing it was simple. At some

0:37:12.320 --> 0:37:15.320
<v Speaker 2>point you realize that the name you created, the identity

0:37:15.320 --> 0:37:19.399
<v Speaker 2>that you've created, you don't want anymore. And when you're

0:37:19.400 --> 0:37:21.759
<v Speaker 2>going through these struggles with them, they were never an

0:37:21.800 --> 0:37:26.040
<v Speaker 2>artist friendly company, the ones that I had these tumultuous

0:37:26.120 --> 0:37:28.600
<v Speaker 2>dealings with. So they let you know, hey, you're just

0:37:28.719 --> 0:37:32.920
<v Speaker 2>that's our property, and we're not the vision you have

0:37:33.600 --> 0:37:38.120
<v Speaker 2>of postmanin and rock. That's not black artists music that

0:37:38.160 --> 0:37:40.040
<v Speaker 2>we the way we see and we want to support you.

0:37:40.360 --> 0:37:45.239
<v Speaker 2>And the other thing is any industry, whether it's a

0:37:45.280 --> 0:37:48.040
<v Speaker 2>film industry or music industry, is going to be hard

0:37:48.040 --> 0:37:50.279
<v Speaker 2>pressed to promote and continue to promote what they don't

0:37:50.280 --> 0:37:54.279
<v Speaker 2>think they can easily replace. So if you're if you're

0:37:54.360 --> 0:37:57.600
<v Speaker 2>seen as a paradigm shifter. Fine, that's all well and

0:37:57.640 --> 0:37:59.400
<v Speaker 2>good from the artistic side of it. But from the

0:37:59.480 --> 0:38:02.040
<v Speaker 2>industry out of it. Can we duplicate this monk and

0:38:02.120 --> 0:38:05.080
<v Speaker 2>we now mint and print this bitch? If you can't,

0:38:05.560 --> 0:38:08.719
<v Speaker 2>it's not in their best interest, you know, for them

0:38:08.760 --> 0:38:12.879
<v Speaker 2>to promote Citizen King as a film when they've got

0:38:13.080 --> 0:38:15.920
<v Speaker 2>nothing else the next two years in their catalog, in

0:38:15.960 --> 0:38:20.239
<v Speaker 2>the pipeline that looks anything like Citizen King. So you

0:38:20.400 --> 0:38:23.920
<v Speaker 2>learn all these lessons, and you learn that if you

0:38:23.960 --> 0:38:27.400
<v Speaker 2>want to go forward after two years of meditation, where

0:38:27.440 --> 0:38:30.720
<v Speaker 2>I was in a state of dissociation in order to survive,

0:38:31.560 --> 0:38:33.320
<v Speaker 2>where to the point where if you called me that

0:38:33.400 --> 0:38:35.200
<v Speaker 2>old name, it might take a few seconds for me

0:38:35.239 --> 0:38:38.400
<v Speaker 2>to register that you were actually talking to me. In

0:38:38.520 --> 0:38:41.719
<v Speaker 2>meditations and prayers, I asked the way forward, and I

0:38:41.760 --> 0:38:44.239
<v Speaker 2>was given in a series of dreams. I'm a pis

0:38:44.239 --> 0:38:46.840
<v Speaker 2>sing and I've always placed a lot of stocking dreams

0:38:47.520 --> 0:38:49.520
<v Speaker 2>in a series of dreams. Three to be exact, I

0:38:49.600 --> 0:38:52.160
<v Speaker 2>kept hearing the name Sananda called out by a group

0:38:52.200 --> 0:38:55.920
<v Speaker 2>of angels that I were always traveling behind, walking behind.

0:38:56.360 --> 0:38:59.120
<v Speaker 2>By the third time, this name, which was in every

0:38:59.200 --> 0:39:02.160
<v Speaker 2>dream to me like this is Solanda. I would always

0:39:02.160 --> 0:39:04.279
<v Speaker 2>look around like, hey, who's Sonanda. Who's going to answer

0:39:04.320 --> 0:39:06.880
<v Speaker 2>to this? The third time was the time where I realized,

0:39:06.920 --> 0:39:12.560
<v Speaker 2>oh shit, I'm Sonanda. I'm Sonanda. That's me. And literally

0:39:12.960 --> 0:39:16.440
<v Speaker 2>the angels who would never who never faced me in

0:39:16.560 --> 0:39:19.280
<v Speaker 2>any of the three dreams, literally turned around and faced

0:39:19.280 --> 0:39:23.160
<v Speaker 2>me and started applauding life. Ah, there you gets it.

0:39:24.360 --> 0:39:25.920
<v Speaker 2>And that was the beginning of that. That was and

0:39:25.960 --> 0:39:28.160
<v Speaker 2>I was given, you know, to understand, if you have

0:39:28.280 --> 0:39:30.480
<v Speaker 2>the courage of heart to take this, this is the

0:39:30.560 --> 0:39:34.120
<v Speaker 2>answer you've been waiting for, looking for, and it will

0:39:34.200 --> 0:39:37.920
<v Speaker 2>even resurrect the other name that they're now suppressing to

0:39:38.000 --> 0:39:41.160
<v Speaker 2>keep control of you. So that was the path I

0:39:41.200 --> 0:39:43.520
<v Speaker 2>had to take. I was ridiculed, of course, as you

0:39:43.600 --> 0:39:46.799
<v Speaker 2>as you would expect. I was. So that was absolutely nuts.

0:39:46.840 --> 0:39:49.000
<v Speaker 2>And it's like, well, just because I'm nuts doesn't mean

0:39:49.000 --> 0:39:51.799
<v Speaker 2>it's not a great idea.

0:39:55.160 --> 0:40:00.000
<v Speaker 1>How hard was that transition professionally speaking? Because I didn't

0:40:00.000 --> 0:40:04.160
<v Speaker 1>I didn't know you existed until two thousand and eleven,

0:40:05.160 --> 0:40:07.520
<v Speaker 1>you know, So I was wondering, like, wait, what happened

0:40:07.520 --> 0:40:09.000
<v Speaker 1>between ninety four? Like where's he?

0:40:09.520 --> 0:40:11.319
<v Speaker 2>I had to give you time to do your other shit,

0:40:11.920 --> 0:40:15.000
<v Speaker 2>because you were playing your foundation for a culture that

0:40:15.239 --> 0:40:18.839
<v Speaker 2>you're just a very, very huge part of. Okay, but look,

0:40:18.920 --> 0:40:21.960
<v Speaker 2>the bottom line was, for a long time, I had

0:40:22.000 --> 0:40:25.319
<v Speaker 2>to dissociate myself with that life, that world. So I

0:40:25.400 --> 0:40:28.600
<v Speaker 2>wasn't going to be performing those songs anyway, got it.

0:40:29.080 --> 0:40:31.800
<v Speaker 2>Creating a new catalog gave me something to do. For

0:40:32.239 --> 0:40:35.680
<v Speaker 2>eight years, I was in a trio. I've still played

0:40:35.680 --> 0:40:38.040
<v Speaker 2>everything myself on the record, but I went for a trio,

0:40:38.560 --> 0:40:41.240
<v Speaker 2>which means that I arranged everything with a view towards

0:40:41.239 --> 0:40:43.840
<v Speaker 2>when you play this live, you're just gonna have three instruments.

0:40:43.960 --> 0:40:46.239
<v Speaker 2>As an arranger, that was a great, great challenge. I

0:40:46.280 --> 0:40:50.000
<v Speaker 2>loved it. Arrangers loved Now you got right for twelve pieces,

0:40:50.160 --> 0:40:53.120
<v Speaker 2>Now you got right for four pieces. You know, we

0:40:53.200 --> 0:40:53.560
<v Speaker 2>love that.

0:40:53.800 --> 0:40:59.040
<v Speaker 1>At one point, weren't you Were you considering being the

0:40:59.080 --> 0:41:00.840
<v Speaker 1>new front man of n X or was that just

0:41:00.880 --> 0:41:02.640
<v Speaker 1>a one off thing or that it.

0:41:02.680 --> 0:41:05.920
<v Speaker 2>Was another very interesting story that came about because I

0:41:05.960 --> 0:41:07.839
<v Speaker 2>had heard a rumor from a couple of people, Hey,

0:41:07.920 --> 0:41:11.960
<v Speaker 2>what's this about you joining Excess? I had absolutely no

0:41:12.080 --> 0:41:15.759
<v Speaker 2>idea whether this even started. Okay, it was in addressing

0:41:15.800 --> 0:41:20.920
<v Speaker 2>the rumor through the media that they heard that I

0:41:21.040 --> 0:41:23.439
<v Speaker 2>was saying or that they got the idea to ask

0:41:23.520 --> 0:41:26.840
<v Speaker 2>if I would do it. So it was actually me

0:41:26.960 --> 0:41:31.719
<v Speaker 2>the It was while I was debunking rumor that in

0:41:31.760 --> 0:41:33.800
<v Speaker 2>the process of debunking the room, and they heard the

0:41:33.880 --> 0:41:36.120
<v Speaker 2>rumor and then said, here, let's take a gamble and

0:41:36.160 --> 0:41:39.120
<v Speaker 2>ask if you'll do it. I was very good, good

0:41:39.160 --> 0:41:44.520
<v Speaker 2>friends with Mike Hutchins, Michael Hutchins, and so yeah, that's

0:41:44.520 --> 0:41:47.880
<v Speaker 2>how that happened. It was strange. And then of course

0:41:47.960 --> 0:41:50.840
<v Speaker 2>we did the opening of the Olympic Stadium in Sydney

0:41:50.840 --> 0:41:54.120
<v Speaker 2>in the year two thousand and that's what led them

0:41:54.160 --> 0:41:57.200
<v Speaker 2>to invite me the next year to be Jesus and

0:41:57.320 --> 0:42:00.840
<v Speaker 2>god Spell. And I was really excited about that because

0:42:00.880 --> 0:42:02.800
<v Speaker 2>it was like, you know, I grew up doing gospel

0:42:02.800 --> 0:42:06.400
<v Speaker 2>in junior high school, so I knew that like the

0:42:06.440 --> 0:42:09.600
<v Speaker 2>back of my hand, and they asked me to play

0:42:09.680 --> 0:42:13.719
<v Speaker 2>the Jesus character. I was like, dude, that's like, yeah, man,

0:42:13.760 --> 0:42:17.200
<v Speaker 2>the Australians loved these bitches. Yeah, man, it's about time,

0:42:17.480 --> 0:42:19.680
<v Speaker 2>because you know, I always felt like he probably looked closer

0:42:19.719 --> 0:42:22.800
<v Speaker 2>to me than he did to Chris Sarandon or whoever

0:42:22.800 --> 0:42:25.000
<v Speaker 2>plays motherfucking the movies anyway, when I was a kid,

0:42:25.239 --> 0:42:28.560
<v Speaker 2>you know. But the irony is the very day I

0:42:28.640 --> 0:42:31.680
<v Speaker 2>was meant to get on the plane, the producer and

0:42:31.719 --> 0:42:36.360
<v Speaker 2>the director got into a huge fight because the director

0:42:36.400 --> 0:42:39.120
<v Speaker 2>had prompted, in order to get me on board, promised

0:42:39.120 --> 0:42:43.759
<v Speaker 2>I could contribute a song to the situation, to give

0:42:43.760 --> 0:42:47.720
<v Speaker 2>me another song to sing, and they were already problems

0:42:48.040 --> 0:42:49.759
<v Speaker 2>doing But I guess that was the straw that broke

0:42:49.800 --> 0:42:52.439
<v Speaker 2>the camels back. And literally got a call an hour

0:42:52.520 --> 0:42:55.279
<v Speaker 2>before I was going to leave for the airport that

0:42:55.520 --> 0:42:58.400
<v Speaker 2>they had postponed it until they sorted out all this

0:42:58.480 --> 0:43:00.840
<v Speaker 2>other stuff, which by which when I had moved on.

0:43:01.000 --> 0:43:05.839
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, that rumor was true, and that rumor led

0:43:05.880 --> 0:43:07.880
<v Speaker 2>to some other stuff, and then eventually they asked if

0:43:07.920 --> 0:43:10.120
<v Speaker 2>I want to be a permanent member. But that was

0:43:10.160 --> 0:43:12.600
<v Speaker 2>in the very beginning of me going into the transition

0:43:13.560 --> 0:43:16.640
<v Speaker 2>full time in earnest and realized it wouldn't have been

0:43:16.680 --> 0:43:19.880
<v Speaker 2>in my best interest to have lent my energy to that.

0:43:21.480 --> 0:43:24.160
<v Speaker 1>So the way you create now is it when the

0:43:24.200 --> 0:43:29.399
<v Speaker 1>spirit moves you, or like, are you your your final say?

0:43:29.440 --> 0:43:33.040
<v Speaker 1>Are you your boss? Are you like okay? Are you

0:43:33.080 --> 0:43:34.920
<v Speaker 1>in an ideal place now creatively.

0:43:35.960 --> 0:43:39.319
<v Speaker 2>I've been in an ideal place creatively since the very

0:43:39.440 --> 0:43:44.480
<v Speaker 2>very beginning, because I was spoiled that I've always had

0:43:44.480 --> 0:43:48.520
<v Speaker 2>creative control and the first record was the only time

0:43:48.560 --> 0:43:54.880
<v Speaker 2>I've ever even made demos. But my answers is like this,

0:43:55.200 --> 0:43:58.080
<v Speaker 2>I'm sixty two years old. I've been doing this my

0:43:58.280 --> 0:44:02.520
<v Speaker 2>entire life. Else should I be listening to? But but me,

0:44:02.640 --> 0:44:06.880
<v Speaker 2>I I've always believed in my taste as an artist,

0:44:07.040 --> 0:44:09.919
<v Speaker 2>meaning that you know, if I can tell someone else

0:44:09.960 --> 0:44:11.719
<v Speaker 2>has made great music. I don't see why all of

0:44:11.760 --> 0:44:14.239
<v Speaker 2>a sudden it's impossible for me to know that I've

0:44:14.280 --> 0:44:20.080
<v Speaker 2>done something tasteful or or captured something. It is just.

0:44:20.480 --> 0:44:24.200
<v Speaker 2>It is just and the energy that I inherited back

0:44:24.200 --> 0:44:26.239
<v Speaker 2>into the process of creating when I no longer have

0:44:26.320 --> 0:44:29.040
<v Speaker 2>to defend myself and answer questions, why are you starting

0:44:29.080 --> 0:44:32.560
<v Speaker 2>the wild card with this? This kind of banjo? We

0:44:32.680 --> 0:44:35.440
<v Speaker 2>kind of why why are you doing why? I just

0:44:35.440 --> 0:44:38.040
<v Speaker 2>got time all that. Look.

0:44:38.239 --> 0:44:41.120
<v Speaker 1>I love when you go dirty, like the dirtier shit

0:44:41.239 --> 0:44:46.520
<v Speaker 1>dound the most, the SETTI just drums untuned. I love

0:44:46.600 --> 0:44:49.640
<v Speaker 1>that shit like, yeah, I love it soone look, brother,

0:44:50.120 --> 0:44:56.800
<v Speaker 1>I cannot emphasize enough how much of a profound I

0:44:56.840 --> 0:44:59.880
<v Speaker 1>didn't even get into you did a show the CA

0:45:00.000 --> 0:45:03.680
<v Speaker 1>had me in music one night in Philadelphia and I'm

0:45:03.719 --> 0:45:08.359
<v Speaker 1>walking home from school and only because I know the baseline,

0:45:09.080 --> 0:45:12.640
<v Speaker 1>like the back of my hand, your band is soundchecking

0:45:13.840 --> 0:45:18.399
<v Speaker 1>Wiki Wacky by Fat Back Band. Yeah, because I heard

0:45:18.400 --> 0:45:20.759
<v Speaker 1>that booby doo boom boooo, boom boom boom boom boom

0:45:20.760 --> 0:45:25.600
<v Speaker 1>b And there was half a second where like one

0:45:25.640 --> 0:45:27.520
<v Speaker 1>of the side doors was open at the Academy of

0:45:27.600 --> 0:45:31.480
<v Speaker 1>Music and me like, I'm walking home from school and

0:45:32.520 --> 0:45:35.640
<v Speaker 1>you guys are sound checking at the Academy of Music.

0:45:35.760 --> 0:45:38.319
<v Speaker 1>I went to perform an art school like across the

0:45:38.320 --> 0:45:42.279
<v Speaker 1>street from that school and would often walk by it.

0:45:42.600 --> 0:45:46.480
<v Speaker 1>And I didn't even know the Fat Back version that well,

0:45:46.520 --> 0:45:50.440
<v Speaker 1>but I knew that baseline and watching you guys for

0:45:50.600 --> 0:45:55.400
<v Speaker 1>like three minutes, like and then security kick this out,

0:45:55.600 --> 0:45:58.799
<v Speaker 1>but we snuck in the sound check. But yeah, it

0:45:58.880 --> 0:46:07.000
<v Speaker 1>was such a profound effect on my life and of

0:46:07.800 --> 0:46:09.600
<v Speaker 1>And I know I sound like a broken record on

0:46:09.640 --> 0:46:13.399
<v Speaker 1>this podcast. I've been doing this for seven years. I've

0:46:13.600 --> 0:46:16.640
<v Speaker 1>I've I didn't know this is the interview I always

0:46:16.640 --> 0:46:20.239
<v Speaker 1>wanted in this ideal situation, and I thank you so

0:46:20.400 --> 0:46:24.719
<v Speaker 1>much for granting me the one man audience to just

0:46:24.920 --> 0:46:27.240
<v Speaker 1>nerd out and give you your flowers.

0:46:27.280 --> 0:46:31.280
<v Speaker 2>Man, I really appreciate the opportunity. When you your people

0:46:31.320 --> 0:46:34.160
<v Speaker 2>contacted us a few weeks ago, I was really like

0:46:34.920 --> 0:46:37.360
<v Speaker 2>it was a kind of feeling like finally, you know

0:46:37.400 --> 0:46:39.319
<v Speaker 2>what I mean, Like, you know, I see you, I

0:46:39.360 --> 0:46:40.279
<v Speaker 2>see you. I swear it.

0:46:40.520 --> 0:46:42.719
<v Speaker 1>I just didn't think you knew, Like, come on, man,

0:46:42.760 --> 0:46:45.480
<v Speaker 1>you all over the place, but I don't know that.

0:46:45.560 --> 0:46:47.279
<v Speaker 1>I think when you're in it, you're not like.

0:46:47.920 --> 0:46:51.359
<v Speaker 2>No, I'm into the culture. I mean basically I should

0:46:51.400 --> 0:46:54.040
<v Speaker 2>own shares on YouTube this moment at this point. So

0:46:54.280 --> 0:46:56.960
<v Speaker 2>you know, whatever you're doing, you know, I'm catching it.

0:46:57.040 --> 0:46:59.239
<v Speaker 2>I'm seeing it, you know. And the fact that you

0:46:59.280 --> 0:47:02.799
<v Speaker 2>got the gig with Falling and all of that, man,

0:47:02.880 --> 0:47:06.720
<v Speaker 2>it's just like, you know, your your imprint has been huge.

0:47:06.719 --> 0:47:09.760
<v Speaker 2>Your footprint has been huge, and we've really really needed

0:47:09.760 --> 0:47:12.960
<v Speaker 2>it because that thing you established, which was kind of

0:47:12.960 --> 0:47:16.200
<v Speaker 2>in its own way, you taking over from who are

0:47:16.200 --> 0:47:22.560
<v Speaker 2>we referencing before that whole whoever we were we were

0:47:22.680 --> 0:47:25.759
<v Speaker 2>referencing before that, they basically had a whole thing. You

0:47:25.800 --> 0:47:28.319
<v Speaker 2>also put out an umbrella and brought in a lot

0:47:28.320 --> 0:47:30.560
<v Speaker 2>of stuff that you nurtured and was really really important

0:47:30.560 --> 0:47:33.080
<v Speaker 2>for the culture. And I just I just thank you,

0:47:33.120 --> 0:47:36.399
<v Speaker 2>I just really do because you've made excellent, excellent music

0:47:36.440 --> 0:47:39.399
<v Speaker 2>and work. The productions are an excellent you know, and

0:47:39.920 --> 0:47:41.480
<v Speaker 2>I want you to pass on my love to a

0:47:41.520 --> 0:47:45.080
<v Speaker 2>young brother D'Angelo and to Erica as well.

0:47:46.360 --> 0:47:49.200
<v Speaker 1>The's gonna be my first phone call like right after now,

0:47:49.320 --> 0:47:52.560
<v Speaker 1>Like I'm just bursting as.

0:47:53.040 --> 0:47:55.000
<v Speaker 2>I'm particularly I'm proud of him, and you know that

0:47:55.120 --> 0:47:59.440
<v Speaker 2>he's He's everything you kind of suspected he had in

0:47:59.520 --> 0:48:02.640
<v Speaker 2>him when you first heard Brown Sugar. He's definitely going

0:48:02.719 --> 0:48:05.000
<v Speaker 2>beyond that. And like I said, he's even got Scandinavian

0:48:05.000 --> 0:48:09.160
<v Speaker 2>bitches and in Sweden talking about how probably are of him.

0:48:09.200 --> 0:48:13.040
<v Speaker 2>So you know, just past okay, and I want us

0:48:13.040 --> 0:48:14.560
<v Speaker 2>to stay in contact. We know we might do this.

0:48:14.760 --> 0:48:16.359
<v Speaker 1>We will. I'll slide in your d MS and give

0:48:16.360 --> 0:48:20.879
<v Speaker 1>you my information. Brother. Thank you for listening to Quest

0:48:20.880 --> 0:48:25.480
<v Speaker 1>Love Supreme Coast by Amir quest Love Thompson. Why You

0:48:25.600 --> 0:48:32.080
<v Speaker 1>Saint Clair Fonte, Coleman, Sugar, Steve Mande, An unpaid Bill Sherman,

0:48:33.160 --> 0:48:37.680
<v Speaker 1>executive producers are a mere Quest Love Thompson, Sean che

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<v Speaker 1>Brian Calhoun produced by Britney Benjamin Cousin, Jake Payne. Why

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<v Speaker 1>is Saint Clair? Edited by Alex Conroy. Produced by iHeart

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<v Speaker 1>by Noel Brown. Much Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio.

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<v Speaker 1>For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

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<v Speaker 1>Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.