WEBVTT - Asylum Limitations and Soaring Cryptocurrency Cases 0:00:03.200 --> 0:00:07.960 This is Bloombird Law with June Brusso from Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:09.160 --> 0:00:13.560 A Louisiana federal judge has made it official Title forty two. 0:00:13.760 --> 0:00:17.240 The policy allowing asylum seekers to be turned away at 0:00:17.239 --> 0:00:20.840 the border will remain in place until the legal actions 0:00:20.920 --> 0:00:24.520 play out, and that's likely to drag well into next year. 0:00:24.840 --> 0:00:28.520 The Mayor of Yuma, Arizona, Douglas Nichols, says the judge 0:00:28.560 --> 0:00:31.720 made the right decision because the federal government is not 0:00:31.880 --> 0:00:34.840 ready to handle a surge at the border. Title forty 0:00:34.880 --> 0:00:37.559 two doesn't need to go away. Um, we just need 0:00:37.600 --> 0:00:39.600 to be prepared for it. And I asked nine months 0:00:39.640 --> 0:00:43.120 ago from d HS, hey, what are we doing? What's 0:00:43.159 --> 0:00:45.800 the plan because we all know what's going away. Joining 0:00:45.840 --> 0:00:48.880 me is Leon Fresco, a partner at Hollanden Night Lenn 0:00:48.960 --> 0:00:53.400 explain why the judge said the Biden administration can't resind 0:00:53.560 --> 0:00:57.600 Title forty two. Well, the ud had a few babies 0:00:57.880 --> 0:01:02.520 for saying that the Title forty two recision could not 0:01:02.680 --> 0:01:05.880 be put in place, and basically the first and the 0:01:05.920 --> 0:01:09.800 main rationals that the judge said that the CDC needed 0:01:09.840 --> 0:01:13.440 to use the a p A Notice and comment process 0:01:13.520 --> 0:01:17.360 in order to revoke Title forty two, which is interesting 0:01:17.520 --> 0:01:21.480 because you didn't need to actually use the notice and 0:01:21.560 --> 0:01:25.520 common process to implement Title forty two. So it's a 0:01:25.680 --> 0:01:28.880 strange sort of logic that would say you would need 0:01:29.400 --> 0:01:34.200 to actually use notice and comments to resent Title forty two, 0:01:34.880 --> 0:01:38.480 But that's one sort of logic. And then secondly, the 0:01:38.560 --> 0:01:43.440 judge said that the CDCNS rationale is overbroad in that 0:01:43.640 --> 0:01:47.600 it would apply to every rule issued under Title forty two, 0:01:47.920 --> 0:01:51.360 regardless of the circumstances, and that that shouldn't be happening 0:01:51.960 --> 0:01:55.440 and it needed to be a much more carefully narrowly 0:01:55.560 --> 0:01:59.040 tailored rule in the way it is resent the Title 0:01:59.120 --> 0:02:03.080 forty two so that it would keep certain threats that 0:02:03.280 --> 0:02:07.200 are based on COVID nineteens from coming into the United States. 0:02:07.200 --> 0:02:10.440 And then it also says that an agency to responds 0:02:10.520 --> 0:02:15.600 to a dangerous and largely unknown disease may justify emergency actions. 0:02:15.840 --> 0:02:19.720 The dispense with the rulemaking process, but they haven't explained 0:02:19.919 --> 0:02:24.720 how now the princess circumstances prevented from now that things 0:02:24.760 --> 0:02:28.239 are calmer, using the required dotors and comment process to 0:02:28.360 --> 0:02:32.400 resent it rules. So basically it's mostly about notice and 0:02:32.480 --> 0:02:36.880 comments here, that is the main reason why the decision 0:02:37.120 --> 0:02:40.040 was to keep tital forty to what he placed. The 0:02:40.080 --> 0:02:42.919 White House says it's going to comply with the court's order, 0:02:43.000 --> 0:02:46.320 but it's going to appeal the decision. Does this indicate 0:02:46.520 --> 0:02:50.120 a prolonged legal battle that will most likely end up 0:02:50.120 --> 0:02:53.720 at the Supreme Court? Well, yes. And what's very interesting 0:02:53.800 --> 0:02:58.160 about what's occurred, sort of the unreported nugget for whatever 0:02:58.200 --> 0:03:00.280 reason out of all of this is that even though 0:03:00.320 --> 0:03:03.480 the Biden administration has appealed, they appear not to have 0:03:03.560 --> 0:03:07.440 asked for us say, of the District Court's ruling. And 0:03:07.560 --> 0:03:10.440 for what that means is they're not taking the fast 0:03:10.520 --> 0:03:14.440 track on a field, they're taking the slow track on appeal, 0:03:14.919 --> 0:03:19.760 which means that theoretically speaking, Title forty two could be 0:03:19.760 --> 0:03:23.760 in place until well into three, maybe the middle of 0:03:25.280 --> 0:03:27.880 or at least at the bare minimum, until a notice 0:03:27.880 --> 0:03:32.080 and comments rulemaking can take place, or perhaps the COVID 0:03:32.160 --> 0:03:35.720 National Emergency is rescinded as a whole, to which point, 0:03:35.760 --> 0:03:39.720 then if the entire COVID National Emergency is resented, perhaps 0:03:39.720 --> 0:03:43.080 it's easier to then move forward. But the Biden administration 0:03:43.160 --> 0:03:47.080 hasn't said that they are committed to removing the COVID 0:03:47.160 --> 0:03:51.560 National Emergency Declaration any time in the foreseeable future. Well, 0:03:51.640 --> 0:03:54.440 this brings me to a question I believe I've asked 0:03:54.480 --> 0:03:59.800 you before. Is the Biden administration secretly happy or relieved 0:04:00.360 --> 0:04:04.360 that this judge save Title forty two. Well, the only 0:04:04.520 --> 0:04:07.720 implications that one can draw from the fact that they're 0:04:07.760 --> 0:04:12.119 not moving for a stay of the District judge disorder 0:04:12.320 --> 0:04:15.200 is that they want Title forty two to remain in plight. 0:04:15.400 --> 0:04:19.479 And I'm surprised they're not getting more pushback from the 0:04:19.520 --> 0:04:23.240 immigration right side because the community on this side, because 0:04:23.360 --> 0:04:26.039 at the end of the day, if you were really 0:04:26.080 --> 0:04:29.480 intent on eliminating Title forty two as a policy, you'd 0:04:29.480 --> 0:04:33.239 be pushing for a stay of this. But apparently there's 0:04:33.320 --> 0:04:36.120 just no desire to to boot for a stay, which 0:04:36.160 --> 0:04:39.320 means you'd go through the normal Fifth Circuit process, which 0:04:39.360 --> 0:04:42.400 could take six months to a year, and then the 0:04:42.440 --> 0:04:45.160 Supreme Court process, which could take another six months to 0:04:45.279 --> 0:04:48.760 a year. And so maybe if you expedite in those cases, 0:04:48.800 --> 0:04:52.240 and you ask for expedited briefing at the court, granted it, 0:04:52.520 --> 0:04:57.040 you could get this into early. But we are talking 0:04:57.080 --> 0:05:00.799 now about three time frame for the decision of side 0:05:00.800 --> 0:05:04.000 of forty two when it gets to the Supreme Court, 0:05:04.000 --> 0:05:07.560 when not if is there any indication how the justices 0:05:08.040 --> 0:05:12.280 would rule based on prior rulings. Well, I think it's 0:05:12.320 --> 0:05:16.480 going to be very interesting whether the judges think at 0:05:16.520 --> 0:05:19.240 the end of the day that this c d C 0:05:20.160 --> 0:05:22.839 declaration as to who can come across the border is 0:05:22.960 --> 0:05:26.039 reviewable by the courts. And I don't think in the 0:05:26.120 --> 0:05:29.520 end they will find that it's reviewable. But I think 0:05:29.520 --> 0:05:31.479 it's going to be a long time until they get there. 0:05:31.480 --> 0:05:34.080 And the question is will this be mooted out by 0:05:34.120 --> 0:05:36.320 the time of decision is going to happen on side 0:05:36.320 --> 0:05:38.880 of forty two? And I think that's what we don't know. 0:05:39.000 --> 0:05:40.599 We don't know what the world is going to look 0:05:40.640 --> 0:05:42.760 like by the time the Supreme Court would get to 0:05:42.800 --> 0:05:45.880 a decision, and could this end up becoming moose. But 0:05:46.000 --> 0:05:48.960 I don't think that the Supreme Court is going to 0:05:49.160 --> 0:05:52.000 want to have a decision in place saying that it 0:05:52.200 --> 0:05:56.200 can overrule the Director of the CDC with regards to 0:05:56.279 --> 0:06:01.200 declarations on when do these require frictions on the border 0:06:01.560 --> 0:06:05.080 and when they don't. But you know, I've been surprised 0:06:05.200 --> 0:06:10.000 before Leon there are three things the Biden administration is 0:06:10.080 --> 0:06:14.440 doing or saying that seemed to conflict with each other. So, 0:06:14.680 --> 0:06:19.640 first of all, on Tuesday, the Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro 0:06:19.720 --> 0:06:24.000 Majorchis said will be increasing the number of criminal prosecutions 0:06:24.040 --> 0:06:26.760 to meet the challenge because the fact of the matter 0:06:26.920 --> 0:06:30.680 is there are more cases that warn't criminal prosecution than 0:06:30.800 --> 0:06:35.040 cases that are being brought. Yet, an ICE memo last 0:06:35.120 --> 0:06:39.920 month encouraged its prosecutors to use their discretion to focus 0:06:39.960 --> 0:06:43.719 on deporting migrants who pose a public safety or national 0:06:43.800 --> 0:06:48.560 security threat while not initiating, we're dismissing cases against those 0:06:48.600 --> 0:06:52.560 who are not. And third, a new rule breaks away 0:06:52.560 --> 0:06:57.600 from the framework governing the credible fear screening process with 0:06:57.680 --> 0:07:01.320 a lower bar for asylum seekers to eire. Those things 0:07:01.360 --> 0:07:06.760 seem to contradict his statement. What actually is happening? What 0:07:06.800 --> 0:07:10.520 are they doing? So here's the basic issue, and I'll 0:07:10.520 --> 0:07:13.960 take you through the sets to explain what is meant 0:07:14.000 --> 0:07:18.000 by all of it. Right now, if a person arrives 0:07:18.080 --> 0:07:20.840 at the border and they are a single adults and 0:07:20.920 --> 0:07:24.200 that's still to this day people talk about all these 0:07:24.240 --> 0:07:29.920 things Cubans, Ukrainians, the families, minors, but still to this 0:07:30.040 --> 0:07:33.240 day something continues to hold true that has held true 0:07:33.280 --> 0:07:36.200 for many, many years, which is that the majority of 0:07:36.400 --> 0:07:40.400 people who try to come across the suther border remains 0:07:40.440 --> 0:07:44.400 that continues to remain single adults from Mexico. So the 0:07:44.520 --> 0:07:49.120 question is, when single adults from Mexico try to cross 0:07:49.200 --> 0:07:53.640 the southern border into the United States, what Secretary Majorkis 0:07:53.720 --> 0:07:58.000 is saying is that right now they're being excluded under 0:07:58.040 --> 0:08:00.680 Title forty two for the most part and sent back 0:08:00.680 --> 0:08:04.160 to Mexico. So they're not being allowed to make their claim. 0:08:04.280 --> 0:08:07.400 But what's happening is you do that, but people continue 0:08:07.480 --> 0:08:11.280 to try crossing a second time, a third time before siding, 0:08:11.360 --> 0:08:14.960 et cetera. And so that cycle is going to continue 0:08:15.320 --> 0:08:18.880 unless you actually start to prosecute of individuals. But say, 0:08:19.000 --> 0:08:22.240 if you're going to cross the border multiple time, there's 0:08:22.280 --> 0:08:26.880 gonna be jail time associated with this, which serves two purposes. 0:08:27.000 --> 0:08:29.680 One can imagine. The first purpose is well, if a 0:08:29.760 --> 0:08:33.480 person is in jail, then they can't continue crossing of 0:08:33.520 --> 0:08:37.800 their bodies in the jail. That's number one obviously, But second, conceivably, 0:08:37.840 --> 0:08:40.720 it also serves as the surrence for other people who 0:08:40.720 --> 0:08:43.400 would do this if they find out that people who 0:08:43.400 --> 0:08:46.160 have tried this recently are now in jail for six 0:08:46.200 --> 0:08:48.400 months or a year or a year and a half 0:08:48.480 --> 0:08:51.719 or whatever. I mean. Technically, the penalty for illegal re 0:08:51.960 --> 0:08:54.760 entry a second time can be up to ten years 0:08:54.760 --> 0:08:57.520 in prison. So this is serious prison time you could 0:08:57.520 --> 0:08:59.520 actually spend. I don't know that judge is ever going 0:08:59.559 --> 0:09:02.520 to get some weeks been years in prison, but theoretically 0:09:02.600 --> 0:09:06.640 that's the possible presence. And so if you do that, 0:09:06.720 --> 0:09:09.480 people were getting ten years at prison, for instance, for 0:09:09.720 --> 0:09:13.120 coming over a second or a third time, then that 0:09:13.160 --> 0:09:16.080 would certainly serve this ard for people from doing that. 0:09:16.080 --> 0:09:19.920 That is a different issue than what's done as prosecutorial 0:09:20.000 --> 0:09:23.320 discretion in the removal context, which is what do you 0:09:23.360 --> 0:09:26.520 do with people already year who've been here with some 0:09:27.200 --> 0:09:30.240 amount of time already invested in the United States. But 0:09:30.280 --> 0:09:32.560 the question is what do you consider that a year, 0:09:32.679 --> 0:09:35.960 two years, three years, four years, five years, and year. 0:09:36.080 --> 0:09:39.319 Is where the Secretary is saying to the ice attorneys 0:09:39.440 --> 0:09:45.080 used prosecutorial discretion to only remove those people who've been 0:09:45.720 --> 0:09:48.760 now in the United States for a while if they 0:09:48.800 --> 0:09:53.239 are people with criminal issues or some other public faithy 0:09:53.360 --> 0:09:56.760 or dangerousness or something like that, or some violation of 0:09:56.800 --> 0:10:00.720 the inseegrity of the immigration system. That that's what those 0:10:00.760 --> 0:10:04.920 memos talk about, so that even though they're called prosecutorial discretion, 0:10:05.320 --> 0:10:08.280 what they mean is who gets tacked to be put 0:10:08.280 --> 0:10:12.160 into deportation proceedings as opposed to this first issue, as 0:10:12.480 --> 0:10:15.440 is who's getting picked to actually be thrown in jail 0:10:16.040 --> 0:10:20.400 for breaking criminal laws regarding crossing the border illegally. So 0:10:20.559 --> 0:10:22.800 that's the person of the second thing. And then the 0:10:22.920 --> 0:10:26.040 third thing has to do with if you're not just 0:10:26.240 --> 0:10:28.800 a border cross or who's trying to cross the border, 0:10:29.280 --> 0:10:33.480 but you're actually someone who's trying to seek asylum and 0:10:33.720 --> 0:10:38.160 it's actually credibly coming forward with some asylum claims that 0:10:38.320 --> 0:10:43.880 could be reasonably understood in the law that's cognizable, then 0:10:44.600 --> 0:10:48.200 what the administration is trying to do is to streamline 0:10:48.240 --> 0:10:53.280 that process to get as many narritorious cases out of 0:10:53.320 --> 0:10:57.480 the pool as possible so that the immigration courts can 0:10:57.520 --> 0:11:01.640 focus on the questionable cases and try to get those 0:11:01.720 --> 0:11:04.800 that judicated much more quickly, because now there's a four 0:11:04.920 --> 0:11:08.040 or five year backlog on those cases, and the people 0:11:08.080 --> 0:11:11.720 who are ultimately going to lose are either in America 0:11:12.000 --> 0:11:14.040 for four or five years before they lose, which is 0:11:14.120 --> 0:11:17.960 not ideal, or they never even show up the court 0:11:18.120 --> 0:11:20.440 and then we never find out if they win or lose. 0:11:20.960 --> 0:11:23.800 But that's that's also how the system is supposed to work. 0:11:23.880 --> 0:11:27.800 So the idea is, if you could identify very quickly 0:11:28.000 --> 0:11:32.600 up front, hey, this person is, for instance, someone fleeing 0:11:32.840 --> 0:11:38.200 from the Ukraine who has you know, basically already been 0:11:38.720 --> 0:11:41.560 injured by Russian soldiers and have been told we're gonna 0:11:41.640 --> 0:11:44.920 kill you if you come back, etcetera. That might be 0:11:45.080 --> 0:11:47.560 someone who's case is so simple that you can just 0:11:47.600 --> 0:11:50.360 give them asylum. That up very quickly, and you don't 0:11:50.360 --> 0:11:52.720 have to put that person in the five year two, 0:11:53.040 --> 0:11:56.880 which makes the line shorter for these more difficult cases. 0:11:56.960 --> 0:12:01.040 So that's the three questions you're talking about, how they 0:12:01.080 --> 0:12:06.480 work in tandem. So then in fact the government is 0:12:07.000 --> 0:12:12.600 lowering the standard though to significant possibility in the credible 0:12:12.640 --> 0:12:16.920 fear process, well that has always been the standard needing. 0:12:16.960 --> 0:12:20.319 What happens is if you show up to the border 0:12:20.559 --> 0:12:22.360 and you don't have a viva, you don't have any 0:12:22.400 --> 0:12:24.760 predisitions to be here, You're just showing up on your own, 0:12:25.320 --> 0:12:27.920 and the government then said why are you here, and 0:12:27.960 --> 0:12:30.800 you say I'm here because I'm afraid of going back 0:12:30.840 --> 0:12:33.760 to my country. I'm going to be persecuted. Then the 0:12:33.840 --> 0:12:36.320 government does the three to the process. The first step 0:12:36.360 --> 0:12:38.800 of the process is they say, well, that's fine, but 0:12:38.880 --> 0:12:43.080 we're gonna put you in removal proceedings. So that's that's 0:12:43.120 --> 0:12:47.079 called expedited removal, meaning the government says you don't get 0:12:47.160 --> 0:12:49.640 to be here, you're out. But then there's a defense 0:12:49.640 --> 0:12:52.520 sex pedit a removal, which is, hey, don't do this 0:12:52.600 --> 0:12:55.240 because I'm gonna be persecuted. So then how do you 0:12:55.320 --> 0:12:58.480 put that defense forward. You have to make your claim 0:12:58.600 --> 0:13:01.040 and you have to prove that of a credible fear 0:13:01.080 --> 0:13:04.000 of persecution. And so the question then is, well, what 0:13:04.160 --> 0:13:07.880 is the standard for determining whether one has a credible fear? 0:13:08.240 --> 0:13:12.640 And that standard is this significant possibility of removal. The 0:13:12.760 --> 0:13:17.640 Trump administration had tried significant possibility of persecution in your 0:13:17.640 --> 0:13:20.840 own country on the basis of one of the protected grounds, 0:13:20.880 --> 0:13:26.000 which is ray religion, national origin, social group, or political opinion. 0:13:26.640 --> 0:13:31.120 And so the Trump administration tried to increase that. But 0:13:31.280 --> 0:13:35.600 really this idea that that standard has been increased or 0:13:35.720 --> 0:13:39.280 decrease isn't true. It's always been this significant possibility standard, 0:13:39.600 --> 0:13:44.000 because that's what the standard was, is the regulation. But 0:13:44.600 --> 0:13:47.559 what the Trump administration I tried to do is to 0:13:47.600 --> 0:13:53.200 basically keep issuing memos repeatedly think, hey, this significant possibility 0:13:53.320 --> 0:13:58.720 standard doesn't mean this, it means this, and basically tried 0:13:58.720 --> 0:14:02.160 by sort of implo occasion to raise the standard, which 0:14:02.200 --> 0:14:05.760 did work in the sense that many more cases were 0:14:05.840 --> 0:14:09.640 denied at that front stage. But the point is, if 0:14:09.640 --> 0:14:12.839 at the front stage you get a credible fear determination, 0:14:13.520 --> 0:14:17.040 then what that means is you get a hearing that's 0:14:17.040 --> 0:14:19.440 supposed to decide whether you get to say or not. 0:14:19.640 --> 0:14:22.560 And that is a difference sagre ull do you have 0:14:22.640 --> 0:14:25.880 a well founded fear of persecution in the future in 0:14:25.960 --> 0:14:28.960 your own country on the basis of a protective ground? 0:14:29.520 --> 0:14:32.720 And so what the Biden administration is changing here is 0:14:32.720 --> 0:14:36.800 they're saying, you don't start an immigration court anymore. You 0:14:36.880 --> 0:14:40.120 start with a NAAD for serial interview, and if your 0:14:40.160 --> 0:14:43.920 case is territorious enough to win in this non adversarial interview, 0:14:44.240 --> 0:14:46.360 that we're gonna take you out of the backlog of 0:14:46.360 --> 0:14:49.520 the immigration court and you're just gonna win up front. 0:14:50.040 --> 0:14:53.280 Whereas if your case isn't strong enough to win up front, 0:14:53.640 --> 0:14:56.520 then you will go like normal to the immigration court. 0:14:57.000 --> 0:15:01.280 So that's what's changing in the current viire. Is it 0:15:01.400 --> 0:15:05.360 the case that almost all migrants who come to this 0:15:05.440 --> 0:15:10.520 country claim credible fears? Something involved ninety percent of people 0:15:10.560 --> 0:15:13.200 when they get apprehended. I think that they have a 0:15:13.200 --> 0:15:16.760 credible fear. But is it all? It's not all nine percent? 0:15:17.400 --> 0:15:23.040 Rather than rather than saying that the number is end 0:15:23.080 --> 0:15:28.280 by the way, by I of non Mexican crossers, some 0:15:28.560 --> 0:15:32.240 decent number of Mexican crossers don't end up asserting a 0:15:32.560 --> 0:15:35.040 credible fear. I haven't seen the sets on this most 0:15:35.040 --> 0:15:39.040 recent crops of Mexican crossers. But the people not from Mexico, 0:15:39.440 --> 0:15:43.400 it is over that actually claims that they are going 0:15:43.400 --> 0:15:46.080 to be persecuted in their home country because what other 0:15:46.160 --> 0:15:49.200 reasons can they give that would allow them to stay. No, 0:15:49.360 --> 0:15:51.840 there are no other reasons. Unless you come with a visa, 0:15:52.160 --> 0:15:54.720 you're going to be deported unless you complain you have 0:15:54.760 --> 0:15:57.920 a credible fear of being persecuted in your whole country. 0:15:58.320 --> 0:16:02.240 Sexis file the motion on one day asking a federal 0:16:02.280 --> 0:16:07.840 court to stop the Biden administration from implementing this latest 0:16:07.960 --> 0:16:11.160 rule at the border. So what do they want to happen. 0:16:11.800 --> 0:16:15.080 So the Biden administration is implementing this rule by the 0:16:15.160 --> 0:16:19.520 end of the month. That would then change the adjudication 0:16:19.640 --> 0:16:24.840 from an immigration court judge to an immigration asylum officer, 0:16:25.320 --> 0:16:27.760 and they could move it from an adversarial to a 0:16:27.800 --> 0:16:31.920 non adversarial process. And basically the State of Texas saying 0:16:32.040 --> 0:16:34.640 don't do that because that's going to lead to many 0:16:34.640 --> 0:16:38.200 more asylum cases getting granted, and that's gonna put a 0:16:38.320 --> 0:16:41.680 strain on the State of Texas. And the toughest part 0:16:41.720 --> 0:16:44.760 about the State of Texas and plaim is well, why 0:16:44.920 --> 0:16:47.800 is that a problem? And more asylum cases get granted 0:16:48.320 --> 0:16:51.840 as long as they actually meet the standard of asylum. 0:16:51.920 --> 0:16:56.240 I think they're current why that these asylum officers won't 0:16:56.280 --> 0:17:00.640 actually do a good job of setting and a island playing. 0:17:00.720 --> 0:17:04.440 But that seeks very strained because these asylum officers already 0:17:04.480 --> 0:17:07.679 do this every day. The only difference is their current 0:17:07.760 --> 0:17:11.760 role is to adjudicate asylum playing for people who entered legally. 0:17:12.240 --> 0:17:15.520 Thanks so much, Leon, that's Leon Fresco of Holland and Knight. 0:17:16.800 --> 0:17:21.560 Cryptocurrencies have been suffering through some challenging times, but one 0:17:21.640 --> 0:17:27.639 area is continuing to surge. Cryptocurrency litigation is soaring up 0:17:27.680 --> 0:17:31.679 more than fifty since the start of Joining me is 0:17:31.680 --> 0:17:34.880 Sam Skolnick of Bloomberg Law who has written about this 0:17:35.640 --> 0:17:40.120 start by telling us about the number of lawsuits over 0:17:40.200 --> 0:17:46.440 crypto Yeah. So, currently there are roughly four hundred actions, 0:17:46.520 --> 0:17:50.520 be they private lawsuits government suits, that are are current 0:17:50.600 --> 0:17:54.400 in this space. Um that number has grown consistently over 0:17:54.440 --> 0:17:57.879 the years, according to at least one guy at a 0:17:57.880 --> 0:18:00.639 firm called Morrison and Cohen and size firm in New 0:18:00.720 --> 0:18:05.040 York that keeps track of these lawsuits regarding crypto companies, 0:18:05.520 --> 0:18:07.879 about half of the four hundred, though he said that 0:18:07.920 --> 0:18:10.800 there's been a real explosion in one portion of this 0:18:11.119 --> 0:18:15.000 that has to do with class action lawsuits, other private litigation. 0:18:15.560 --> 0:18:18.760 About half of that four hundred numbers roughly two hundred. 0:18:19.280 --> 0:18:24.000 That number has grown exponentially over just the last few years, 0:18:24.080 --> 0:18:28.320 and interestingly, June, just a quick search of this litigation, 0:18:28.359 --> 0:18:31.800 of this private litigation shows some pretty big names attached 0:18:31.840 --> 0:18:33.840 to some of these suits, and you don't have to 0:18:33.920 --> 0:18:36.520 follow legal news specifically to know some of these names. 0:18:36.560 --> 0:18:41.280 For example, in January, there was a class action I 0:18:41.359 --> 0:18:45.119 think it's still awaiting certification, but a putative class action 0:18:45.200 --> 0:18:50.720 against Kim Kardashian, the celebutante, as well as former boxing 0:18:50.800 --> 0:18:54.840 champ of Floyd Mayweather Jr. And others. And what that 0:18:55.000 --> 0:18:59.080 suit alleged is that the defendants had made misleading statements 0:18:59.119 --> 0:19:03.080 in Twitter and other social media posts. Two investors of 0:19:03.200 --> 0:19:08.920 one specific cryptocurrency token called Ethereum Max. And then there 0:19:08.920 --> 0:19:11.720 have been lots of other big companies including I'm not 0:19:11.760 --> 0:19:15.320 sure from pronouncing this right, but the fancy French scarf 0:19:15.320 --> 0:19:19.359 and bag maker air Mess International. They also have been 0:19:19.400 --> 0:19:22.640 involved in litigation of a different type, where a patent 0:19:23.119 --> 0:19:27.359 trademark infringement litigation. Also, I believe in January they sued 0:19:27.359 --> 0:19:30.520 a company called Mason Rothschild in the Federal court in 0:19:30.560 --> 0:19:35.760 Manhattan basically claiming that that this other company had sold 0:19:36.119 --> 0:19:41.720 a non fungible token these are non replicable digital collectible items, 0:19:42.040 --> 0:19:44.680 and that they were doing so illegal that they were 0:19:44.800 --> 0:19:48.800 infringing one trademark from this French fashion house. The lawsuits 0:19:48.840 --> 0:19:54.240 really run the gamut. Is the litigation growing because of cryptocurrency, 0:19:54.640 --> 0:19:58.480 you know, people investing in it because it's a confusing area, 0:19:58.680 --> 0:20:02.000 or because it's a tomor truous time for crypto or 0:20:02.320 --> 0:20:04.960 all three, you know, it really is all the above. 0:20:05.080 --> 0:20:08.040 June and at one common refrain that I heard to 0:20:08.119 --> 0:20:11.840 this question was much of this stems from new regulation, 0:20:12.040 --> 0:20:15.200 and for example, the SEC just within the last few 0:20:15.240 --> 0:20:19.600 months announced new regulations to try to protect crypto investors. 0:20:19.640 --> 0:20:22.879 That's going to be happening more and more as both 0:20:22.920 --> 0:20:29.040 the SEC and the CFTC Commodity Futures Trading Commission sort 0:20:29.040 --> 0:20:33.199 of squabble as to which agency has primacy over this 0:20:33.280 --> 0:20:36.119 space or whether they should share in both set up 0:20:36.160 --> 0:20:41.040 different regulatory structures and schemes. But what happens is once 0:20:41.160 --> 0:20:44.560 these new regulations come into play, then all sorts of 0:20:44.960 --> 0:20:49.520 different types of legal issues lawsuits can stem off of them. 0:20:50.160 --> 0:20:54.080 For example, companies themselves can be targeted by these agencies. 0:20:54.119 --> 0:20:57.480 So that's one formably glad, but then often there are 0:20:57.520 --> 0:21:00.800 these private suits where the parties are flipped and you 0:21:00.880 --> 0:21:04.399 have sort of startup crypto companies that are taking issue 0:21:04.400 --> 0:21:08.240 with the regulations and saying we're being unfairly targeted um, 0:21:08.280 --> 0:21:12.040 and our investors are doing just fine, and we need 0:21:12.080 --> 0:21:14.399 to have more free reign as to how we go 0:21:14.440 --> 0:21:17.639 about our business. UM. So that also comprises some of 0:21:17.640 --> 0:21:21.360 these suits and then you have private matters where one 0:21:21.400 --> 0:21:26.400 business is suing another over alleged crypto related types of violations, 0:21:26.400 --> 0:21:31.400 whether it has to do payments or using crypto coins 0:21:32.040 --> 0:21:36.640 or other related issues. The rules for crypto are they 0:21:36.720 --> 0:21:42.080 fairly clear? Are they fuzzy? They're They're fuzzy. And that's 0:21:42.119 --> 0:21:47.120 why lawyers, also especially in the regulatory and litigation portions 0:21:47.160 --> 0:21:50.840 of their law firms, are especially looking forward frankly to 0:21:50.920 --> 0:21:53.680 the next several years when a lot of these new 0:21:53.720 --> 0:21:55.920 regulations are going to be hashed out, and a lot 0:21:55.960 --> 0:21:58.480 of these firms, including some of the biggest in the 0:21:58.520 --> 0:22:01.520 country by gross revenue, on behalf of their clients, they're 0:22:01.560 --> 0:22:05.040 going to be doing things like writing letters to agencies, 0:22:05.480 --> 0:22:10.159 attending here public hearings, and really inserting themselves in the 0:22:10.200 --> 0:22:14.920 process to try to make these regulations basically as client friendly, 0:22:15.160 --> 0:22:18.720 meaning as company incorporation friendly as they can get them. 0:22:18.880 --> 0:22:21.800 I will say at the same time June, one interesting 0:22:21.840 --> 0:22:26.399 thing is that I had several attorneys who are in 0:22:26.480 --> 0:22:29.800 this space, some at prompting by me, but others sort 0:22:29.840 --> 0:22:33.600 of unbidden brought up the notion that what they're trying 0:22:33.640 --> 0:22:37.000 to do with a lot of these companies that because 0:22:37.000 --> 0:22:39.840 it's kind of like this wild West atmosphere out there, 0:22:40.200 --> 0:22:44.879 and because it's relatively unregulated space is there pushing these 0:22:44.880 --> 0:22:47.640 companies to try to be the good guys. I mean 0:22:47.680 --> 0:22:50.000 that That was an exact quote from one of these 0:22:50.040 --> 0:22:53.320 attorneys who heads up a practice at camale Gates. She said, 0:22:53.359 --> 0:22:55.000 you know, she's telling them, you want to be the 0:22:55.119 --> 0:22:57.399 good guy in this and what that means is she 0:22:57.480 --> 0:22:59.800 gave me a couple of examples pushing them to make 0:22:59.800 --> 0:23:02.040 sure or for example, on their websites they have very 0:23:02.119 --> 0:23:05.520 lengthy question and answer pages, in other words, to make 0:23:05.560 --> 0:23:09.960 it very customer or investor friendly. Also for those who 0:23:10.000 --> 0:23:12.520 have investments or who those who are some sort of 0:23:12.520 --> 0:23:15.400 subscriber service who are looking to get out, to make 0:23:15.400 --> 0:23:18.760 it easy for them to do so. A lot of companies, 0:23:18.760 --> 0:23:21.000 and frankly we all know this as consumers in this 0:23:21.080 --> 0:23:24.120 day and age the Internet and internet commerce, it's often 0:23:24.200 --> 0:23:27.320 very difficult to end these kinds of business relationships companies 0:23:27.359 --> 0:23:30.320 to make it intentionally so, but they're advising in the 0:23:30.320 --> 0:23:34.080 crypto spaces. They're saying, look, regulations are coming down the pipe. 0:23:34.359 --> 0:23:37.640 It's possible you might be targeted. Let's avoid it and 0:23:37.720 --> 0:23:39.960 let's be on the better side of it now, even 0:23:40.000 --> 0:23:42.520 if it means you make slightly less profit in the 0:23:42.640 --> 0:23:44.719 in the shorter term, it's going to be a much 0:23:44.760 --> 0:23:48.520 healthier strategy and much fairer to those enlist as clients 0:23:48.520 --> 0:23:52.320 in the longer term. How many law firms are bolstering 0:23:52.960 --> 0:23:57.280 their crypto practices, So it's a great question. I've had 0:23:57.320 --> 0:24:01.560 other asking this in the core of my reporting. It's 0:24:01.560 --> 0:24:05.879 difficult to know without without doing an account by looking 0:24:05.920 --> 0:24:08.400 at each web page from each stay of the top 0:24:10.160 --> 0:24:13.719 law firms by revenues, But I do believe that it's 0:24:13.760 --> 0:24:17.560 the majority for sure are in the space because what's 0:24:17.560 --> 0:24:20.800 happening June is more and more clients are asking their 0:24:20.920 --> 0:24:24.679 firms be they not traditional. They don't necessarily need to 0:24:24.720 --> 0:24:28.640 be like startup crypto focused companies. They could be banks, 0:24:28.760 --> 0:24:33.000 they could be other institutions that much more traditional institutions 0:24:33.040 --> 0:24:36.760 that for the first time are themselves getting questions from 0:24:36.800 --> 0:24:40.320 their own customers as to how can we incorporate crypto 0:24:40.359 --> 0:24:43.080 into it? Can we make payments for various goods or 0:24:43.080 --> 0:24:45.760 services through the use of crypto? And other not just 0:24:45.840 --> 0:24:49.240 crypto but blockchain related questions come up, and so a 0:24:49.240 --> 0:24:52.080 lot of these clients are asking their firms so more 0:24:52.240 --> 0:24:54.720 that the answer is, I don't have a solid number, 0:24:55.200 --> 0:24:57.320 but I do know that more and more law firms 0:24:57.640 --> 0:25:01.240