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Speaker 1: Hi everyone, I'm Katie Kuric, and welcome to Next Question.

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Speaker 1: Today we're diving into the massive, frenetic, and very lucrative

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Speaker 1: world of e sports. Last fall, I have the opportunity

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Speaker 1: to go to a live sports event. It was my

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Speaker 1: first and let me tell you, it was nuts crazy.

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Speaker 1: There's a little worldwide brest League kind of feel about

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Speaker 1: the whole thing too. It was the Grand Finals of

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Speaker 1: the two thousand nineteen Overwatch League, Overwatch being a popular

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Speaker 1: first person shooter game that can be played by lots

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Speaker 1: of people at the same time incoming high school. It

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Speaker 1: was held at the Wells Fargo Center in Philadelphia, which

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Speaker 1: is remarkable because that's usually where the city's major traditional

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Speaker 1: sports teams play the Flyers the seventies Sixers, but on

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Speaker 1: this day presented pots instead of shootouts and buzzer beaters.

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Speaker 1: The Pact Arena was riveted by two teams of six

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Speaker 1: sitting in chairs staring at computer screens. Now the game

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Speaker 1: they were playing was being projected on a big screen

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Speaker 1: above them, and I guess it didn't hurt that at

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Speaker 1: stake was a prize pool of one point seven million dollars.

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Speaker 1: The rise of e sports is a really fascinating space

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Speaker 1: right now because people are coming together in the same

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Speaker 1: way that traditional sports brings people together. This is Anita Sarkasian,

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Speaker 1: a feminist media and gaming critic. It's a camaraderie, it's

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Speaker 1: an excitement, it's a it's you know, in real time,

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Speaker 1: you are rooting for your teams and you're excited and

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Speaker 1: you learn all the stats and everything. So I think

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of value there. We'll return to Nita

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Speaker 1: a little bit later to take a critical look at

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Speaker 1: the competitive gaming industry, but with e sports poised to

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Speaker 1: break the billion dollar mark this year, that's billion with

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Speaker 1: a B. My first question is how did it get

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Speaker 1: so huge. To answer that, we have to go back

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Speaker 1: to the arcade. In the seventies and eighties, video games

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Speaker 1: were something you did by yourself. Remember, Yeah, at the arcade,

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Speaker 1: or a little bit later in front of the family

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Speaker 1: TV in the basement. Maybe you crowded around a really

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Speaker 1: good player, or maybe you'd have some friends over to

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Speaker 1: watch and see who could get to the highest level.

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Speaker 1: But that's really as social as video games got. So

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Speaker 1: the games, remember, they weren't multiplayer. This is Bobby Kotick,

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Speaker 1: the CEO of Activision one of the industry's biggest video

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Speaker 1: game companies. So the only multiplayer experience you have was

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Speaker 1: I had a controller, You had a controller. The two

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Speaker 1: of us played with one TV against each other, and

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Speaker 1: so they weren't these social experiences where you could play

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Speaker 1: with anyone from around the world. But that all changed

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Speaker 1: in the nineties with the advent of the World Wide Web.

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Speaker 1: With techno set you go and surfing on the Internet,

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Speaker 1: the Internet made online competitive gaming possible, even though it

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Speaker 1: was years before home connections were powerful enough to accommodate it.

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Speaker 1: The Web also gave rise to the popularity of computer

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Speaker 1: games and more sophisticated virtual three D worlds. The nineties

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Speaker 1: also ushered in a new genre of video game, the

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Speaker 1: first person shooter, and these games players essentially become a

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Speaker 1: gun or some other sophisticated weapon, patrolling a suspenseful maze

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Speaker 1: on the hunt for people or things to kill. In

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Speaker 1: games like Doom, which came out, you could play as

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Speaker 1: a team fighting a common enemy, or you could seek

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Speaker 1: other player years out and kill them before they killed you.

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Speaker 1: As Internet connections improved over the decade, it got easier

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Speaker 1: and easier to find people to play with at any time.

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Speaker 1: Of day from all over the world. You take point,

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Speaker 1: knock at that Hart and Brooks go get the truck,

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Speaker 1: meet us in the front of the chateau. When Activision

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Speaker 1: released Call of Duty in the early two thousands, it

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Speaker 1: up the anti of first person shooter games with real

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Speaker 1: world war settings, incredibly realistic graphics, and a more interactive

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Speaker 1: group experience. Again here's Bobby Codeck. You could talk to

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Speaker 1: people with a headset, you could text them and chat

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Speaker 1: with them, and the games became much more social, much

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Speaker 1: more multiplayer. And that's really what created like games as

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Speaker 1: a spectator experience. So when did this whole thing blow

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Speaker 1: up in terms of having stadiums full of people to

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Speaker 1: watch people these games on a giant screen. So twenty

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Speaker 1: years ago, we released this game called StarCraft and it

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Speaker 1: was a popular game. But something happened in South Korea

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Speaker 1: that was not through our own um initiatives. But there

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Speaker 1: were roughly five million people that signed up to play

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Speaker 1: this game. Now there's a country where the population is

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Speaker 1: sixty million people, five million of them were playing StarCraft.

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Speaker 1: What happened is they started playing professionally. Sponsors started signing

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Speaker 1: them up, arenas started hosting matches. Three cable channels popped

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Speaker 1: up flenty four hour, seven day week cable channels tavizing

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Speaker 1: StarCraft matches, and we were watching all of this and

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Speaker 1: saying this is incredible, like you know what well, and

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Speaker 1: what is the German nation of it? Why were people

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Speaker 1: doing this? Well, one, they were invested players, but two

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Speaker 1: people got a sense of belonging purpose, meaning the same

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Speaker 1: things that used on traditional sport, the camaraderie of sport

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Speaker 1: for people who weren't necessarily athletes. South Korea may have

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Speaker 1: been ahead of the curve with dedicated gaming events and

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Speaker 1: cable channels, but by the end of the nineties, American

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Speaker 1: gamers wooed by the prospect of making big money off

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Speaker 1: their pastime. We're stepping out of the basement and into

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Speaker 1: live events to show off their skills in public. After

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Speaker 1: the turn of the millennium, the level of participation, number

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Speaker 1: of tournaments, and prize money exploded, and once streaming was

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Speaker 1: introduced in the twenty tens, gamers found themselves with career

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Speaker 1: options go on world tours or get paid to play

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Speaker 1: online at your own house. According to Bobby Kodak, a

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Speaker 1: really good professional gamer today can pull in some serious bank.

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Speaker 1: How much can of professional gamer make in a year

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Speaker 1: tens of millions of dollars because they can make money

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Speaker 1: from being professionals, So they get the prizes and the

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Speaker 1: salaries and the compensation comes from a team. But they're

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Speaker 1: also streamers and so these are some of the most

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Speaker 1: Like if you look at the Internet streamers who are

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Speaker 1: the most successful. These people are making millions and millions

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Speaker 1: of dollars a year, how through endorsements, combinations, endorsed prescriptions,

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Speaker 1: their share of advertising dollars um, their sponsorship, their appearance fees.

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Speaker 1: But endorsements, endorsements, they are no different than professional athletes.

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Speaker 1: So is there, for example, the Lebron James of video games?

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Speaker 1: Um not yet um not stars like like a Lebron

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Speaker 1: where he like transcends popular culture. But I think like

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Speaker 1: within the community. You know, Overwatch has players who are

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Speaker 1: very well recognized within the community of Overwatch players. Somebody

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Speaker 1: said to me the other day that until a famous

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Speaker 1: Overwatch player is dating a Kardashian, we won't get to

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Speaker 1: that level of popular cultural awareness. But that may not

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Speaker 1: be too far away, right, it's happening. I think we're seeing, like,

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Speaker 1: you know, these people are stars and they're becoming more

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Speaker 1: impactful and popular culture. I think popular culture is embracing

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Speaker 1: video games in a way that it never has before,

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Speaker 1: so it will happen. The players I saw at the

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Speaker 1: Overwatch tournament definitely seemed as revered as any pro athlete.

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Speaker 1: They were serious about their game and people took them

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Speaker 1: seriously too. But what really stood out to me about

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Speaker 1: the players was that there were no women, which seemed

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Speaker 1: odd considering that something like forty of us gamers are female.

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Speaker 1: How is it possible that none are making it to

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Speaker 1: the big leagues. When we come back, we'll get to

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Speaker 1: the bottom of my next question. And a sport that

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Speaker 1: has absolutely nothing to do with physical prowess, why can't

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Speaker 1: more women get in on the action. To find out

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Speaker 1: where all the female gamers are, I called one up. Hello, Kristen, Hi,

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Speaker 1: how are you? Hi? Kristen, Thank you so much for

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Speaker 1: doing this. Is Kristin Valnichek, a twenty eight year old

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Speaker 1: professional gamer living in l A. She plays under the

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Speaker 1: moniker Kitty plays Hello, My Beautiful Friends, and welcome to

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Speaker 1: Kristen has actually competed at live tournaments like the one

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Speaker 1: I went to in Philly, so some women do make

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Speaker 1: it to the big leagues. In fact, at a tournament

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Speaker 1: in Korean two thousand eighteen, Kristen one, but she's since

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Speaker 1: retired from the tournament circuit. I have done really successfully

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Speaker 1: in tournaments, UM, but my main focus has always been around, uh,

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Speaker 1: daily content creation. Daily content creation means she plays video

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Speaker 1: games on a streaming service called Twitch, and people all

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Speaker 1: over the world log in and watch. So Twitch is

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Speaker 1: a live streaming platform. UM. People come in and they

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Speaker 1: watch you play your game essentially, and you've got a

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Speaker 1: webcam that's like a picture and picture on the TV,

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Speaker 1: so it's showing all of your reactions to the game

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Speaker 1: you're playing. And while you play, you may commentary, you

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Speaker 1: interact with a live chat, UM, and just build a

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Speaker 1: community through that connection that you have with this live community.

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Speaker 1: And what a community. Kristen has more than one million

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Speaker 1: followers on Twitch, which makes sort of the third most

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Speaker 1: followed female streamer. In a world where Kristen's skills and

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Speaker 1: stats come with a big gender asterisk, she's a big success.

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Speaker 1: I've been a gamer pretty much my entire life. I mean,

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Speaker 1: my oldest memory, they say, is around three, and I

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Speaker 1: remember sitting in my dad's lap, and you know, pressing

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Speaker 1: keys and playing with the mouse when he would be

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Speaker 1: playing Doom and Quake, which were definitely not appropriate games

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Speaker 1: for a three year old to be playing. But I

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Speaker 1: mean it led to this, so it's all okay, Um,

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Speaker 1: But no, he was a huge influence in my life

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Speaker 1: with gaming, and so is my brother. So just my

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Speaker 1: entire life anytime friends had like little game consoles around. Um,

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Speaker 1: and then eventually I got my own, and then computer

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Speaker 1: gaming really rose in popularity. Uh so I there was

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Speaker 1: never a time in my life when gaming was separate.

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Speaker 1: By the time she was nine, she was so good

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Speaker 1: she was beating her dad. But stepping out into the

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Speaker 1: gaming world as a teen, she realized there wasn't really

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Speaker 1: anyone else out there like her. When I think back to,

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Speaker 1: you know, my gaming prime years when I was thirteen, fourteen, fifteen, sixteen, Um,

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Speaker 1: I did not have a single role model of a

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Speaker 1: woman in gaming professionally. Um, there wasn't a single one,

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Speaker 1: not even one, And there wasn't twitch to see that

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Speaker 1: there was um other female gamers like me. Christian soon

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Speaker 1: realized that her gender also made her a target for

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Speaker 1: some unwanted attention. I've been in online communities ever since

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Speaker 1: I was thirteen playing Halo two and called for Modern

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Speaker 1: Warfare two and these online console lobbys which as soon

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Speaker 1: as you talked as a girl, you were either getting

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Speaker 1: hit on or hated on. Um. For those early early

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Speaker 1: days and being a thirteen year old being full of hormones,

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Speaker 1: it was like a lot to learn how to deal with.

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Speaker 1: Would they throw obscenities your way? I mean, how did

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Speaker 1: it get times? I mean that it can definitely get rough, um,

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Speaker 1: And back then I thought that for me that was

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Speaker 1: a really important time and growth in my life because

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Speaker 1: I so quickly got to learn about, you know, why

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Speaker 1: people are unkind um and kind of the psychology behind

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Speaker 1: it and how a lot of it has nothing to

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Speaker 1: do with me. But when I pressed Kristen for details

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Speaker 1: about the kind of harassment she faced then and faces

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Speaker 1: now as a professional, she pushed back, talking about, uh,

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Speaker 1: the ways that people can harass people on the internet

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Speaker 1: really ends up harming the people that are on the

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Speaker 1: internet even more when people see how they're able to

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Speaker 1: target and like I can live, I've been targeted by

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Speaker 1: every type of harassment on the internet, but I've never

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Speaker 1: spoken about it unless it's privately to you know, people

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Speaker 1: in my community to mentor them through it, or to

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Speaker 1: learn how to block the holes that's creating that attack. Um.

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Speaker 1: But it when people recognize that they can gain attention

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Speaker 1: and can actually affect your life through the computer screen

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Speaker 1: and are shown how to do it, um, it just

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Speaker 1: makes it worse for everybody. So I really try not

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Speaker 1: to have that discuss just to protect not only myself

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Speaker 1: but my peers. To understand Christian's position here, I decided

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Speaker 1: to get outside of the industry, which is where Anita

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Speaker 1: Sarkisian comes in. Anita is the founder of Feminist Frequency,

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Speaker 1: an educational nonprofit that critiques the media. So what do

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Speaker 1: you think about the philosophy that talking about harassment only

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Speaker 1: encourages more people to harass? It absolutely does, um. If

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Speaker 1: you it's this vicious circle where if you talk about

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Speaker 1: the harassment you're receiving to try to get support or

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Speaker 1: awareness of of the harassment, you will get harassed worse.

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Speaker 1: And it just it happens every single time. And so

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Speaker 1: I will never judge someone for not speaking up about

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Speaker 1: being harassed or being afraid to speak up about the

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Speaker 1: harm and abuse that they're facing. But I also know

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Speaker 1: that that having people speak up allows other folks to

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Speaker 1: see that they're not in it alone and that they're

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Speaker 1: not the only ones. So it's a bit of a

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Speaker 1: catch twenty two, isn't it. Yeah, you know, it can

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Speaker 1: be really hard for folks who are trying to maintain

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Speaker 1: a career to speak up about harassment, or to speak

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Speaker 1: up about abuse in the industry or or things that

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Speaker 1: they're facing because they're afraid they're going to lose their

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Speaker 1: audience or or worse, that they're going to get her

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Speaker 1: asked for having these kinds of opinions. Anita can really

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Speaker 1: speak to this because she experienced it firsthand. In two

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Speaker 1: thousand fourteen, she was a central figure in the large

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Speaker 1: scale harassment campaign against women known as gamer Gate, but

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Speaker 1: her relationship to gaming goes way back. I think gaming

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Speaker 1: since I was a kid. I started on the n S.

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Speaker 1: I didn't actually have a system at home. I would

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Speaker 1: go to my neighbor's house to be able to play games.

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Speaker 1: It took a really long time for me to convince

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Speaker 1: my immigrant parents that gaming would not rop my brain.

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Speaker 1: So I've been getting Yeah, I've been gaming for quite

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Speaker 1: a while, kind of on and off. Right. I think

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Speaker 1: the games and games communities, you know, tend to be

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Speaker 1: a little alienating to young women and girls, and especially

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Speaker 1: when I was growing up, and so, you know, popping

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Speaker 1: in and out of it over the years. But then

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Speaker 1: when I started doing my work with feminist frequency around

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Speaker 1: pop culture and feminist analysis of pop culture, gaming was

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Speaker 1: such a natural fit for that. And two thousand twelve,

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Speaker 1: Anita announced a Kickstarter project to fund a series of

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Speaker 1: videos looking at how women are portrayed in video games,

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Speaker 1: and that announcement alone made her the target of an

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Speaker 1: overwhelming level of online hate and abuse. So we're talking

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Speaker 1: about the UM hundreds of thousands of death threats and

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Speaker 1: rape threats flooding all of my social media, UM, flooding

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Speaker 1: all of my emails anyway that they could communicate with me.

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Speaker 1: They were sending me these threats. UM. They would be written,

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Speaker 1: or they would be visual. So pornography is often used

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Speaker 1: as a weapon to uh, to victimize and to um

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Speaker 1: humiliate women. So my face would be superimposed on pornographic images,

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Speaker 1: or there would be very lifelike drawings of me being

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Speaker 1: raped by video game characters. And this goes on and on.

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Speaker 1: It got very extreme. UM. There's also efforts to docks me,

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Speaker 1: which is to collect and publicly distribute my personal information

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Speaker 1: and those of my family and the people that I

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Speaker 1: work with. You know, it can get very serious, very quickly,

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Speaker 1: and it can be very terrifying. Despite that, Anita completed

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Speaker 1: the project Welcome to our Multipart video series exploring the

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Speaker 1: roles and representations of women in video games. It ended

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Speaker 1: up being sixteen videos made over the course of five years.

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Speaker 1: Hosted by Anita, they examined the many, many sexiest ways

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Speaker 1: women are often presented in video games, such as The

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Speaker 1: Damsel in Distress. How many times are women in games

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Speaker 1: the object for the male protagonist to rescue, or the

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Speaker 1: the object in which a woman is is stolen so

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Speaker 1: that the male protagonist has some um reason for you know,

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Speaker 1: killing five hundred aliens or whatever. The game is um

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Speaker 1: down to extremely violent expressions of violence against women, either

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Speaker 1: in the game world or that the player is required

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Speaker 1: to or is given the opportunity to do in the games.

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Speaker 1: And so, you know, those are just a couple examples.

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Speaker 1: They're not all that extreme. You know, there are examples

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Speaker 1: such as women, um who are a reward right, so

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Speaker 1: they're not necessarily important in the game. But maybe if

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Speaker 1: you do really well you'll see a picture of a

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Speaker 1: woman scantily dressed, or you'll get a kiss at the end,

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Speaker 1: or you know, different types of things like that. The

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Speaker 1: video has made the claim that the effect of these

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Speaker 1: persistent stereotypes extended far beyond the reach of the virtual

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Speaker 1: world of gaming, reinforcing harmful attitudes about women and our

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Speaker 1: culture at large. Nobody really wants to acknowledge that media

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Speaker 1: does have an impact on us, and it's not necessarily

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Speaker 1: a one to one correlation. It's not like you know

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Speaker 1: you're going to see violence against women in the media,

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Speaker 1: and therefore you will then commit violence against women. But

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Speaker 1: there is the There is research that shows that long

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Speaker 1: term exposure to hyper sexualized images tend to make people

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Speaker 1: of all genders more tolerant to sexual harassment, more believe

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Speaker 1: easily accepting rape myths, for example, and that has a

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Speaker 1: huge impact in what is already a patriarchal, misogynist world.

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Speaker 1: Uh the way it has a huge impact on the

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Speaker 1: way that people perceive women around them, their partners, their mothers,

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Speaker 1: that you know, their coworkers and that sort of thing.

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Speaker 1: So is it is unsurprising to me that when women

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Speaker 1: started making themselves visible in the game space that there

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Speaker 1: was some pushback. It's a daily experience. They hear are

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Speaker 1: women's voice and you will be mocked. This is Chase Prairie,

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Speaker 1: a game where we met at the Overwatch tournament, who

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Speaker 1: didn't want to give her real name for fear of

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Speaker 1: retaliation online. She says, when it comes to competitive team play,

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Speaker 1: it's really hard to advance within the game because of

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Speaker 1: the harassment she faces. You play a game, there are

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Speaker 1: six people on your team, and everyone is expected to

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Speaker 1: be on voice chat and to treat each other as

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Speaker 1: respectable peers and you know, don't get angry at each

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Speaker 1: other and be patient, and so those emotional responses if

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Speaker 1: men perceive a woman on their team is like not

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Speaker 1: holding her own because oh, she a girl. But the

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Speaker 1: games don't become about playing the game level. The game

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Speaker 1: becomes the argument you're having in voice chat instead of

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Speaker 1: the game. And this happens really, really frequently all the time.

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Speaker 1: And so you can choose to the act of hitting

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Speaker 1: the higher tiers of the game requires like you win

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Speaker 1: this game because you work well with your team, and

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Speaker 1: if your team won't take you seriously, you can't win.

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Speaker 1: And so that's part of what's driven um both my

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Speaker 1: friends and just like general groups of women and l

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Speaker 1: g B t Q people to create their own communities,

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Speaker 1: so we only ever group up with people we trust

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Speaker 1: and people we know, and you know it it. There

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Speaker 1: are people who say that means you're not a real

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Speaker 1: Overwatch player because you don't engage with the wider community,

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Speaker 1: and like women don't make it up to the higher

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Speaker 1: tiers for this reason, but it's like we have a

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Speaker 1: valuable experience of the game despite that, because we fought

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Speaker 1: for our own space. Coming up, How can e sports

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Speaker 1: and the gaming industry do better for its female players

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Speaker 1: given the fact that harassment is still a regular occurrence

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Speaker 1: in gaming, is some level of gender segregation one solution.

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Speaker 1: Kristin Bounichik thinks it may be a good start. I

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Speaker 1: think there's still a huge barrier of entry for women

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Speaker 1: getting into the pro scene and getting into the lobbies

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Speaker 1: to be able to practice against the other pros. So

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Speaker 1: finding a space for them to compete against each other

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Speaker 1: to get their feet wet, to gain confidence before entering

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Speaker 1: into the male leagues was great, But that was done

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Speaker 1: in a very casual sense with all women involved. So

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Speaker 1: I think if the league's did go and switch to

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Speaker 1: a female separated male base. Um, that could potentially hurt

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Speaker 1: women in the long run. So your goal is to

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Speaker 1: make it more of a co ed proposition. Yes, definitely,

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Speaker 1: because I believe that women can compete at the same

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Speaker 1: level as men in gaming. So my concern is really, like,

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Speaker 1: what are the opportunities, Anita sarkees and things. Separating the

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Speaker 1: genders is a cop out. There's lots of discussion around,

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Speaker 1: like should leagues be gender separated? Can women join teams?

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Speaker 1: You know, all of those kinds of conversations that I

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Speaker 1: find incredibly frustrating and remnants of, you know, the this

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Speaker 1: idea of like who belongs in games and the gate

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Speaker 1: keeping that happens in gaming, because it is it would

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Speaker 1: be ridiculous to say that playing a video game is

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Speaker 1: a gendered is gendered in any way, right, Like we

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Speaker 1: can all pick up a controller and play it, and

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Speaker 1: we can all train and get good, and some people

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Speaker 1: will be better than others, but their gender doesn't matter here.

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Speaker 1: But in terms of how or if the industry has

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Speaker 1: learned anything from gamer Gate, Anita says, progress is slow.

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Speaker 1: I think in the time since I started doing my work,

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Speaker 1: what has shifted is a conversation around what we expect

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Speaker 1: from games, that the public is much more educated around

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Speaker 1: issues of racism and homophobia and um sexism. Like there's

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Speaker 1: a bigger demand that gaming studios do better, and so

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Speaker 1: we are seeing that in some ways, we are seeing

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Speaker 1: games that are you know, less sexist, or there's female

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Speaker 1: protagonists or their non binary characters coming out in more games,

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Speaker 1: the more trans characters, and that's really exciting, but it's not,

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Speaker 1: you know, the whole industry. There's still all of the sexism,

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Speaker 1: all of the male dominated, all of the sort of

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Speaker 1: macho um you know mechanics and um storylines that we

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Speaker 1: have been getting in the past. Are you feeling optimistic

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Speaker 1: as this trend gets bigger and bigger and bigger. I

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Speaker 1: feel like it's a little hard to be optimistic about

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Speaker 1: anything today, and I don't say that. Here's the thing.

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Speaker 1: I am, however, optimistic about the fact that whenever I

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Speaker 1: go to events, I run into women who come up

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Speaker 1: to me who are constantly saying, I entered the games

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Speaker 1: industry because of you. I want to make the games

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Speaker 1: industry better. Thank you so much for doing your work.

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Speaker 1: It really inspired me. I learned all all of these

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Speaker 1: new things that I didn't know about before, or I

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Speaker 1: used to be trying to be a part of the

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Speaker 1: boys club, and now I know that I can do

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Speaker 1: better and and all of the and you know, then

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Speaker 1: they tell me about all of the things they're doing

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Speaker 1: in their workplace and the games that they're working on,

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Speaker 1: and so it's I get a lot of inspiration and

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00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:49,399
Speaker 1: hope from the fact that, like there is a pretty

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Speaker 1: strong group of people who are trying to move this

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Speaker 1: industry forward in a meaningful way. I've had a lot

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Speaker 1: of male developers come up to me over the years

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Speaker 1: and say, you critiqued my game, and I'm really glad

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Speaker 1: you did it. Thank you. I'm not going to do

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Speaker 1: that again. And that's one of the best things I

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Speaker 1: can hear, because I can't change the past, but we

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00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:13,320
Speaker 1: can make the future better. Well that's positive. Yeah, there

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00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:16,840
Speaker 1: you go. You get dig deep, but you gave it

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Speaker 1: to us, So there you habit. Listeners e Sports one

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Speaker 1: oh one. I got quite an education, and I hope

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Speaker 1: you did too. Now, even if you don't play video games,

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Speaker 1: they will continue to play an increasingly important role in

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Speaker 1: our culture. Even big names and professional sports like Alex

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00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:42,879
Speaker 1: Rodriguez and Bob Kraft are getting into the game. There's

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00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:46,840
Speaker 1: clearly gold in them their computer screens. Meanwhile, I could

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00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:49,600
Speaker 1: not believe the scope and scale of the e sports

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Speaker 1: scene back in Philadelphia. And I love the fact that

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Speaker 1: gamers like Anita and Kristen and Chase Prairie are fighting

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Speaker 1: to make sure they get their seat at the console

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00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:03,359
Speaker 1: and making sure others do too. Let's help the gaming

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00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:09,679
Speaker 1: industry gets with the program. And that's it for this

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Speaker 1: week's episode. Keep up with Next Question by subscribing on

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00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:17,000
Speaker 1: Apple Podcast, the I Heart Radio app, or wherever you

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00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:19,760
Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows. And you can keep up

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00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:23,439
Speaker 1: with me by following me on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook and

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00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:26,040
Speaker 1: all the rest. And if you need a little news

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00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:29,240
Speaker 1: guidance these days, and let's face it, who doesn't sign

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Speaker 1: up for my morning newsletter wake Up Call by going

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Speaker 1: to Katie correct dot com. Thank you all so much

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Speaker 1: for listening, and until next time and my next question,

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Speaker 1: I'm Katie Couric. Next Question with Katie Rick is the

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Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio and Katie Curreic Media. The

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Speaker 1: executive producers are Katie Kurik, Courtney Litz, and Tyler Klang.

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Speaker 1: The supervising producer is Lauren Hansen. Our show producer is

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Speaker 1: Bethan Macaluso. The associate producers are Emily Pinto and Derek Clemens.

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Speaker 1: Editing by Derrek Clements, Dylan Fagin and Lowell Berlante, Mixing

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Speaker 1: by Dylan Fagan. Our researcher is Gabriel Loser. For more

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Speaker 1: information on today's episode, go to Katie Kurik dot com

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Speaker 1: and follow us on Twitter and Instagram at Katie Currik.

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Speaker 1: For more podcasts for my heart Radio, visit the I

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Speaker 1: heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to

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Speaker 1: your favorite shows