Speaker 1: Hey, fam I'm Jada Pinkett Smith and this is the
Speaker 1: Red Tabletop podcast, all your favorite episodes from the Facebook
Speaker 1: Watch show in audio produced by Westbrook Audio and I
Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Please don't forget to rate and review on
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts. Could you imagine being in a group and
Speaker 1: loving everyone equally? No, It's being called the new relationship
Speaker 1: revolution polyamory engaging in multiple intimate relationships at the same time.
Speaker 1: With nearly half of marriages ending in divorce, the main
Speaker 1: reasons why divorces happen is infidelity. Less couples are saying
Speaker 1: I do, and more young people are experimenting with a
Speaker 1: new kind of love. How did you feel when I
Speaker 1: told you that I was polyamorous. It feels like it's
Speaker 1: really all just centered around sex. Don't get frustrated. Will
Speaker 1: redefining relationships? All right? We brought your boyfriend with you.
Speaker 1: Remodeling romance. How many other relationships are you involved in
Speaker 1: right now? Rewriting the rules? You consider yourself a polymuby?
Speaker 1: Is traditional marriage a thing of the past? The history
Speaker 1: of marriage really irks me. Stay tuned because I am
Speaker 1: struggling here. I am struggling, Willow, I got the table
Speaker 1: Willow and her polyamory explorations. I love it. Do you
Speaker 1: believe in monogamy being with one person romantically and sexually
Speaker 1: till death? Do us part? Honey? For many younger people
Speaker 1: like Willow answers no. Instead, they are choosing polyamory, which
Speaker 1: means having multiple emotional and romantic partners at the same time.
Speaker 1: This has been a journey for you, miss Willow. How
Speaker 1: did you make this decision with polyamory? I feel like
Speaker 1: the main foundation is the freedom to be able to
Speaker 1: create a relationship style that works for you and not
Speaker 1: just stepping into monogamy because that's what everyone around you
Speaker 1: says it's the right thing to do. So I was like,
Speaker 1: how can I structure the way that I approach relationships
Speaker 1: with that in mind? Also doing research into polyamory. The
Speaker 1: main reasons why monogamous relationships or why marriage, why divorces
Speaker 1: happen is infidelity. For somebody like me, it feels like
Speaker 1: it's really all just centered around I mean, I'll give
Speaker 1: you an example. Let's say you haven't always been the
Speaker 1: kind of person that wanted to have sex all the time,
Speaker 1: but your partner is Are you going to be the
Speaker 1: person to say you know, just because I don't have
Speaker 1: these needs, you can't have them either. And so that's
Speaker 1: kind of one of the reasons why I actually was
Speaker 1: interested in Polly, because I was introduced to it through
Speaker 1: kind of a non sexual lens. In my friend group,
Speaker 1: I'm the only polyamorous person and I have the least
Speaker 1: sex out of all of my friends. So how did
Speaker 1: you feel when I told you that I was polyamorous?
Speaker 1: When you were like, Hey, this is my get down,
Speaker 1: I was like, I totally wanting to set up your
Speaker 1: life in a way that you can have what it
Speaker 1: is that you want. I think anything goes as long
Speaker 1: as the intentions are clear. Ever, to end yourself really
Speaker 1: more to yourself than anything right, And I know that
Speaker 1: there's a lot of beauty that sits outside of the
Speaker 1: conventional boxes. Let's not negate just the simple um because
Speaker 1: there there are people that still enjoy marriage as it
Speaker 1: is today. I happen to enjoy being married, even though
Speaker 1: I've been married several times that I've been through it's wrong.
Speaker 1: This isn't about changing paradigm that works for people. This
Speaker 1: isn't about that. It's about able to have the freedom
Speaker 1: to create a relationship. I'm good. It's almost like you're born,
Speaker 1: you go to school, you go to college, you can
Speaker 1: get married, kids. Do you have to take offense? But
Speaker 1: a lot of people have done that and felt unfulfilled
Speaker 1: in their lives. But I also think you have to
Speaker 1: be careful in these particular dynamics because they can be
Speaker 1: a little distracting. Meaning. But here's here's the difference between
Speaker 1: monogamous relationships. When you have those monogamous boundaries, you're actually
Speaker 1: forced to have to just listen to what I'm saying. Okay,
Speaker 1: just take a minute. Just listen to what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: When you have those boundaries that are put in and
Speaker 1: you aren't giving yourselves the opportunity to go call Jane
Speaker 1: or to go call Robert when things aren't going well
Speaker 1: within your right in your relationship right, it makes you
Speaker 1: have to confront and look at things in a different manner.
Speaker 1: So all I'm saying is that in these kinds of
Speaker 1: dynamics and just being careful that we're not trying to
Speaker 1: dodge the rain drops. There's comfort in that it provides
Speaker 1: to almost like a social order yes to life in
Speaker 1: setting boundaries and commitments. Most people are practicing monogamy because
Speaker 1: they feel like they have no other choice. We all
Speaker 1: know that most people out here do an unethical nonmonogamy
Speaker 1: an damn ways, that's the whole that's called cheating, y'all.
Speaker 1: That most people's out here just acting a food. But
Speaker 1: that's also why it's important to be able to have
Speaker 1: the discussion beforehand, which is where I think people fall short,
Speaker 1: especially today, because let me tell you something, haven't been
Speaker 1: married four times. Rodney and I had something. No, Rodney
Speaker 1: and I had some serious conversation. You have to about
Speaker 1: what does this mean to you, even even outside of
Speaker 1: the counseling that you get from your past or before
Speaker 1: you can get married, because most people that get married,
Speaker 1: you know, we'll get counseling from their from their past
Speaker 1: masters because there is a religious aspect to it, a
Speaker 1: god aspect to it. James, Yeah, for sure. And we
Speaker 1: had deep conversation about what does this mean to us?
Speaker 1: What do we want to create for for ourselves? And
Speaker 1: we actually talked about Polly Amory. It was that something
Speaker 1: that we wanted to explore. We had that conversation. But
Speaker 1: see the difference is is that you and Rodney have
Speaker 1: lived so much life, right, so when you're talking to
Speaker 1: a twenty year old who is thinking about being married.
Speaker 1: So let's see, I got married at twenty five, one
Speaker 1: of those Jesus. And the problem is if you go
Speaker 1: into a relationship thinking that this is going to be
Speaker 1: exactly how it is today till the day that you die,
Speaker 1: I die, you're in trouble, sadly mistaken, sadly mistaken now
Speaker 1: regardless what the dynamic of the love is going to be.
Speaker 1: So there five people, like it's just two people, you know,
Speaker 1: and whatever it is, it's going to change. And that's
Speaker 1: where the conversation comes in exact. The practicing monogamy has
Speaker 1: to be a choice that you make, just like practicing.
Speaker 1: So that's the thing that's the only part about marriage
Speaker 1: today and monogamy that I think is antiquated. That monogamy
Speaker 1: has to be your deef choice. It can't be because
Speaker 1: I'm told I'm supposed to do it this way. That
Speaker 1: my dear is deeply antiquated and no longer works. I
Speaker 1: guess I'm not really clear on what it offers. You.
Speaker 1: Could you imagine being in a group and loving everyone equally,
Speaker 1: know whether it be platonic or not. Wow, Well, then
Speaker 1: I don't know what to say that's because of GAM's
Speaker 1: ideas around love. Here's the one thing I want to
Speaker 1: talk to you about. This has really been something that
Speaker 1: has been a personal journey you. What are your feelings
Speaker 1: and ideas around marriage as you know it today? The
Speaker 1: history of marriage really irks me, y um, just the
Speaker 1: history of marriage as a whole and what it has
Speaker 1: represented over the years for women in particular. I feel
Speaker 1: like the only way that I would get married is
Speaker 1: let's say me and my partner are partners wants to
Speaker 1: help people, and we need to put our finances together
Speaker 1: in order to make that vision happen. That's the only
Speaker 1: way I could see myself getting married. So there has
Speaker 1: to be a common purpose. Yeah, there has to be
Speaker 1: a purpose beyond I think you're killing And that goes
Speaker 1: for any relationship. So whether it's whether it's a relationship
Speaker 1: just with yourself, it needs to be connected to something
Speaker 1: greater than you, because I think the reason why so
Speaker 1: many relationships are not working is because it's steeped in
Speaker 1: self gratification, and that is going to get you in
Speaker 1: trouble every single time. I feel like, if you're going
Speaker 1: to be married, I think one of the things that
Speaker 1: has to change is the idea that I need a husband.
Speaker 1: We're gonna have no, no, no no. What are you
Speaker 1: planning to build together? What are you planning to do together?
Speaker 1: What is the purpose of your togetherness? Because it has
Speaker 1: to be bigger than the two of you. When I
Speaker 1: look at Justin and Haley, I really they're beautiful couple.
Speaker 1: But not to say that they won't have their difficulties,
Speaker 1: because they will. But here's the thing that I love
Speaker 1: about how they've started their relationship. They agree on God.
Speaker 1: They want to serve God, and they want to love
Speaker 1: God together, and so that is always their north star.
Speaker 1: So coming to the table is a polyamorous young woman
Speaker 1: who's in a relationship with a married man. Meet Gabrielle Smith.
Speaker 1: She practices solo polyamory, meaning she has multiple partner and
Speaker 1: doesn't consider any of them more important than the others.
Speaker 1: Aaron is her platonic life partner, Doug is her sexual partner,
Speaker 1: Alex is her boyfriend. Alex has a wife. Alex's wife
Speaker 1: has a boyfriend, Jeff, and they're all down with that.
Speaker 1: Gabrielle has been very open about her relationships and has
Speaker 1: become a leading voice in the ethical nonmonogamy community. It
Speaker 1: seems extremely confusing to me. I don't understand it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I need to hear everything you got to say. I
Speaker 1: just want to say I'm so happy that you're here
Speaker 1: because I see a lot of you know, white people
Speaker 1: talking about this specific content. And when I came across
Speaker 1: your page, I was like, oh my gosh, up, young
Speaker 1: black woman speaking her truth about this. That was my
Speaker 1: whole big thing. The face of polyamory is lessley white people,
Speaker 1: and that's not my reality. And I knew other people
Speaker 1: felt the same way. And the more you see that
Speaker 1: this is something that exists and this is something that's
Speaker 1: possible for you, the more people feel like empowered. How
Speaker 1: did you come to understanding you wanted a polyamorous relationship?
Speaker 1: And the first time I had heard about it, I
Speaker 1: was reading fan fiction. The main character was in a
Speaker 1: love triangle. The two guys were supposed to do get
Speaker 1: out to figure out who would be her love at
Speaker 1: the end, so very Barbara. It was like a thing
Speaker 1: at the end, they kind of got an equal score,
Speaker 1: so she just picked both of them, and I was like, wait,
Speaker 1: this is so much better, Like this is possible. And
Speaker 1: then I was in my first relationship, and I was
Speaker 1: like seventeen to nineteen and a year and a half
Speaker 1: in I was noticed I was like looking at other
Speaker 1: people and that kind of opened the idea of like, Okay,
Speaker 1: maybe we can do a polyamorous relationship. And then I
Speaker 1: met Alex and that kind of solidified things for me.
Speaker 1: All Right, she brought your boyfriend with you, and he
Speaker 1: is married and also has other romantic partners. Besides, I
Speaker 1: want to just start getting a little bit of background
Speaker 1: from the force, because if we were deeply intrigued, right, um,
Speaker 1: intrigued and confused, let's pull the curtain back. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: back a little bit. So you're married to bridget So
Speaker 1: how did this lifestyle come up for the both of you.
Speaker 1: We've been together almost ten years and we've been open
Speaker 1: for about half of that time. Okay, we're about five
Speaker 1: years into our relationship and you know, there's lots of
Speaker 1: challenging scenarios that happened in monogamy. Yeah, commitment is a
Speaker 1: learning experience. Yes, since the beginning, we're always really candid
Speaker 1: with our relationships. When it came to being attracted to
Speaker 1: other people, and we woulda socialized of parties, we'd be
Speaker 1: a little Ferty, and we kind of dug that about
Speaker 1: each other. So one thing lent to another and her
Speaker 1: and I decided to try to open things up. And
Speaker 1: I don't think we did it to try to fix
Speaker 1: our relationship. I've always had the strong feeling of commitment,
Speaker 1: Like I really cherished commitment a lot. So for me,
Speaker 1: it was a little complicated first to wrap my head
Speaker 1: around it. But I was in because I thought that
Speaker 1: it would be like a journey. So how did the
Speaker 1: two of you meet? We went out Tinder? Anything crazy?
Speaker 1: We went on our first date. It was you were
Speaker 1: he was coming from dinner with his wife and a
Speaker 1: friend of theirs and we got a drink. Did everybody
Speaker 1: come or did you just Yeah, it was just that.
Speaker 1: We waited a month, we clicked. We clicked. Do you
Speaker 1: and his wife have a relationship relationship? Yeah, we don't.
Speaker 1: We don't have to because it's pretty much a requirement
Speaker 1: if I'm like dating someone with a partner. Um, we
Speaker 1: practice what is called kitchen table Polly. I'm right where
Speaker 1: like I at the very minimum need to meet someone's
Speaker 1: partner because I need to kind of know what energy
Speaker 1: you have going on at home. I need to make
Speaker 1: sure is are Okay. I think we're all very lucky
Speaker 1: because we get along so well. Alex's wife Bridget shared
Speaker 1: why your relationship works for her. Alex is one of
Speaker 1: the most loyal people I've ever met, Like more than
Speaker 1: I could ever even hope to be. Alex is so loyal,
Speaker 1: Like if we do skip a date night, or if
Speaker 1: he sees somebody like three nights a week and we
Speaker 1: haven't had dinner together yet. Like, I know this sounds
Speaker 1: maybe crazy some people, but it really doesn't bother me
Speaker 1: because I just know at the end of the day
Speaker 1: that Alex isn't going anywhere. Yeah, and I love that
Speaker 1: she has her own boyfriend because I feel like there's
Speaker 1: this trend where it's like the men can have all
Speaker 1: the parts, yes, and then it's like, oh, once the
Speaker 1: woman wants to have a partner, it's like, oh wait,
Speaker 1: now we're going a little too far here. But it's
Speaker 1: also specifically you can't date other men. Yeah, I'm with
Speaker 1: women because a woman can't stay on my girlfriend me,
Speaker 1: which like which exactly, Okay, so I have because I
Speaker 1: am struggling and I want to feel like I am ready.
Speaker 1: I just don't understand it. It still sounds to me,
Speaker 1: like the major motivation is sexual. It's not about, oh,
Speaker 1: I want to have all these partners. I want to
Speaker 1: do all of these things. It's just like my sexuality.
Speaker 1: I'm not specifically attracted to men, and I'm not specifically
Speaker 1: attracted to women or any other gender. It's that I'm
Speaker 1: open to anything. I want to be able to take
Speaker 1: opportunities if I feel like they're natural to me. You
Speaker 1: also have a platonic different relationships, Like we're just friends,
Speaker 1: but it was deeper than like a normal friendship. It
Speaker 1: was very intimate, and I think that's what makes the difference,
Speaker 1: and that's why I consider her like a life partner.
Speaker 1: I jokingly call her my wife. We did try to
Speaker 1: like have sex ones and it didn't work. Yeah, like
Speaker 1: we run into it, never like literally mutually decided we're good.
Speaker 1: She is so special to me, and like our relationship
Speaker 1: has like a lot of debts. Romantic and platonic relationships
Speaker 1: can be equal. To me, Alex, why did you decide
Speaker 1: to get married in the first place? Because I deeply
Speaker 1: loved Bridget and the show with our commitment to tell
Speaker 1: each other like this is our journey together. But there
Speaker 1: was a familial element too, like we wanted our whole
Speaker 1: family to be there together, like celebrate our love. And
Speaker 1: the wedding was amazing, it was beautiful. What kind of
Speaker 1: rules of boundaries did you and Bridget create for yourselves?
Speaker 1: As we progressed of the boundary, it was less about
Speaker 1: boundaries and more about being completely honest and communicative, communicative
Speaker 1: with each other about our intentions, about our expectations of
Speaker 1: one another. That actually strengthened our relationship. Because polyamory forces
Speaker 1: you to make or break either you figure it out
Speaker 1: or you don't. There are times when we're the only
Speaker 1: people that can host, in which case I get sex siled. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Sex siling is when you look at the calendar, oh tomorrow,
Speaker 1: uh so and says coming over and Bridget is hosting.
Speaker 1: That means that I need to find something to do,
Speaker 1: either work late, or go see a movie, or hang
Speaker 1: out with a friend or go to the bar. To
Speaker 1: be quite frank, we didn't have too many boundaries at first.
Speaker 1: We were just interested in exploring and meeting new people
Speaker 1: and having new experiences at sexual experiences as well. I
Speaker 1: know what you're thinking, so, and the other thing is
Speaker 1: the other thing is, yes, there's a sexual element I
Speaker 1: do enjoy novel sex, and I don't think there's anything
Speaker 1: shameful about that. If you're being honest with the other
Speaker 1: partners about Gaby also enjoys sex. So it is my way,
Speaker 1: it's it's and that's a part of who we are
Speaker 1: and we're not ashamed of it. Well, I think that's
Speaker 1: great and meaning at least you can be honest about
Speaker 1: it both, because I think there's a lot of non consensual,
Speaker 1: non monogamy going on. People will not just be on
Speaker 1: if the numbers add up with all these two tickets,
Speaker 1: everyone's thrown around about marriage and how it fails and
Speaker 1: how it doesn't, then we're all thinking about it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you have to talk about the more exactly. It's like, yo,
Speaker 1: if you're already thinking about it in your monogamous relationship,
Speaker 1: it's gonna be the same anious relationship. You have to
Speaker 1: be saying more. Shouldn't be thinking about everybody, right, But
Speaker 1: people are like, I shouldn't and I but I want
Speaker 1: to also put One day, I'm gonna wake up and
Speaker 1: a miracle is going to happen, and I'm just gonna
Speaker 1: be monogon this guy. I know you aren't putting too
Speaker 1: too much on on the negative side of monogamy. It's
Speaker 1: not right, so we don't we don't want to put
Speaker 1: that out. We all established that we don't get frustrated.
Speaker 1: Will Oh, don't get frustrated because I just want to
Speaker 1: be clear that some people like monogamy. Monogamy itself is fine,
Speaker 1: but when you form a poonamorous relationship, instead of rules,
Speaker 1: let's think about boundaries and then agreements, because maybe are
Speaker 1: very much like you can't do that. The boundary is
Speaker 1: this is something that I would not like. I think
Speaker 1: the only real agreement we have this fluid funding, which
Speaker 1: is like comdo musage with other people, which makes a
Speaker 1: lot of sense because health is it a health factor
Speaker 1: health here. So when Alex did have another partner, I asked,
Speaker 1: you know, I don't want to hear unsolicited sexual details
Speaker 1: about what's going on, because that was like for my comfort.
Speaker 1: It's really interesting because I keep hearing you referring back
Speaker 1: to Alex for everything. It seems more like he is
Speaker 1: more your partner than you think, because he's like an
Speaker 1: anchor for me essentially, like I have dated other people
Speaker 1: and I would maybe not right now, but I lean
Speaker 1: later I would like to have another partner. Nobody really
Speaker 1: like fully measures up to the level of commitment I
Speaker 1: get from Alex. Would do holidays look like for you guys?
Speaker 1: Christmas again? Yeah we did for the first time, or
Speaker 1: yeah we So that's beautiful. It was me you and
Speaker 1: Bridget did did Jeff come? They did come from us? Yeah?
Speaker 1: So Jeff is Bridget's boyfriend, Jeff Bridge. So we all
Speaker 1: hung out for years and my roommate came with us.
Speaker 1: So holidays I think we would like them to be
Speaker 1: like that. Alex. When your girlfriend and your wife don't
Speaker 1: get along, tell me what that looks like. Oh, I mean,
Speaker 1: it doesn't happen a lot, but it has happened, so
Speaker 1: I want to know what that looks like. It challenges
Speaker 1: my mediation skills. When your partners get along, it's easier
Speaker 1: to manage your time because they can do things together.
Speaker 1: The Google calendar is red hot if your partners don't
Speaker 1: get along, Holley, memory is not for everybody. Disclaimer, I
Speaker 1: would think that that would be extremely challenging. It doesn't
Speaker 1: have to be such a laborious task if you understand
Speaker 1: and you believe that low is not a limited resource.
Speaker 1: Nobody can take Alex away from me. And he's married.
Speaker 1: A lot of people will be like, well, what if
Speaker 1: Bridget decides that she just doesn't want to do this anymore.
Speaker 1: I asked him this like at one point, and he
Speaker 1: was like, it's just not gonna happen. And it's because
Speaker 1: me and Bridget always talk about are issues before they
Speaker 1: become issues. Can you give me an example of what
Speaker 1: you're talking about. Sure, if I know I'm going to
Speaker 1: be late and with somebody else, but Bridge is expecting
Speaker 1: me to be home at a certain time, I got
Speaker 1: to warn her ahead of time. I can't just let
Speaker 1: her assume and be home on time, going to show
Speaker 1: up late and disappoint her. You have to manage your
Speaker 1: expectations with your partners. Monogamous people can't even do that.
Speaker 1: I know what I mean, It's like, fine, that's my
Speaker 1: main point at that level of honesty and being able
Speaker 1: to have the courage to explore in this way so
Speaker 1: that you can actually get to a more authentic, exactlyship.
Speaker 1: I can currently can manage multiple relationships, just like I
Speaker 1: can manage multiple friendship exactly Previously three partners at one time.
Speaker 1: How did that work out? I mean, how did that
Speaker 1: work for you? I mean it was challenging. I do
Speaker 1: run my own business, so that's like almost like another commitment.
Speaker 1: It was challenging for surely had four partners. They couldn't
Speaker 1: see myself going past two outside of It's a lot.
Speaker 1: How many other relationships are you involved in? Right now?
Speaker 1: It's just my wife and Gavy. But now after the pandemic,
Speaker 1: I'm still excited about opening up my relationship to other people,
Speaker 1: but not in the same committed way that I am.
Speaker 1: A bridget and okay got it. So joining the table
Speaker 1: as someone who just started exploring polyamory. A couple of
Speaker 1: years ago, twenty eight year old Gabrielle Alexa Nowel came
Speaker 1: out as bisexual after a strict religious upbringing. Now she's
Speaker 1: opening herself up to the polyamorous lifestyle. Hi, today we
Speaker 1: have Gavin gab the two Gas. You consider yourself a
Speaker 1: Polly Newbie? I am. I was just single, but then
Speaker 1: dating polyamorous people, and then I guess I thought one day, like,
Speaker 1: I mean, I could just have this for myself. How
Speaker 1: does your family feel about you being a Polly Newbie? Um?
Speaker 1: And they have no idea. There's I was very indoctrinated
Speaker 1: into the church and they had me signed like a
Speaker 1: purity packed and there was like a lot of measures
Speaker 1: of control that were baked into the way that I
Speaker 1: was raised to look at relationships. I just know that
Speaker 1: they would not understand it, and I would love for
Speaker 1: them to come to that understanding. And I think when
Speaker 1: they will, they just figured the By thing out. They're
Speaker 1: just like okay, like science says, that's okay, I guess,
Speaker 1: And you do have to pick your battles. Sometimes you
Speaker 1: can't come out as By, and then you go and
Speaker 1: I'm polly An, you gotta be like I'm By. Let's
Speaker 1: work on this for a couple of years. And well,
Speaker 1: I mean, you think it the net go see you
Speaker 1: on this show. I was right, they get my friend
Speaker 1: better be ready. If they did ask me, I'd be
Speaker 1: ready to give them my take on I actually relate
Speaker 1: when I first became public. I became public, I didn't
Speaker 1: tell my family ahead of time. I lost the nerve.
Speaker 1: I was so nervous, and they found out the way
Speaker 1: everybody else found out on the news. So that was
Speaker 1: harsh and I had to work from there. So I
Speaker 1: made a mistake. You know, I should have found the nerves,
Speaker 1: should have told them and warned them because there's a
Speaker 1: social stigma that comes with that the and I didn't
Speaker 1: give them a chance to start emotionally preparing themselves. So
Speaker 1: I do apologize for that. I think they're starting to
Speaker 1: become more comfortable with it. They sometimes even ask me
Speaker 1: about Yeah, I'm very open, like I'll tell them what
Speaker 1: I'm doing all the time, and sometimes they're ready to
Speaker 1: hear it, and sometimes they're not so ready to hear it.
Speaker 1: I'm just working on them being more accepting of me,
Speaker 1: and then maybe one day, who knows. I I'm very
Speaker 1: I'm hopeful they haven't disowned me. So that's that's that's
Speaker 1: how has it been kind of navigating those jealousy waters
Speaker 1: Because I know when I first started and I was
Speaker 1: all idealistic about it, and then I got in the
Speaker 1: situation and I was like, whoa, there's a lot that
Speaker 1: needs to be addressed within myself that maybe I need
Speaker 1: to step away from this situation and address these things
Speaker 1: because I actually want to like go into this situation
Speaker 1: with a more um how shall I put it, uh,
Speaker 1: a more like not broken mindset, like like I'm not
Speaker 1: coming into it like feeling like I'm at a lack
Speaker 1: you know what? I mean like coming into it feeling
Speaker 1: fulfilled and feeling like I can actually handle this. I
Speaker 1: have the tools, I have the security within, and I
Speaker 1: just want to know, because you're new at this, Like
Speaker 1: how has that journey been for you? Prior to polyamory.
Speaker 1: Was always going through someone's phone are like their Facebook
Speaker 1: messages like I was, And I was so sneaky, I
Speaker 1: was so good at it. I was like, this is
Speaker 1: just something that's just like I think everyone must be
Speaker 1: doing in their relationships, and I've just normalized it. And
Speaker 1: now that there is like no secret for me to
Speaker 1: find the meaning of finding out that someone's interested in
Speaker 1: someone else, like that search for crow actually just like
Speaker 1: no longer exists. Yeah, I would have so much work
Speaker 1: to do. That's that's what I was just trying to
Speaker 1: be in a polyamorous relationships. Real deal Jealousy, Yeah I did.
Speaker 1: Jealousy is nothing but your own insecurity. That's your own y.
Speaker 1: I did things that I never that I said I
Speaker 1: would never do when I was in my fits of jealousy.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, that made me realize just how much
Speaker 1: like I need to step back and work on myself. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it really puts a mirror up for you to really
Speaker 1: look at how you really feel about your I just
Speaker 1: think I want a different that different mirror. This is
Speaker 1: what makes people so angry when you even bring up
Speaker 1: this whole polyamory thing as an option. How the hell
Speaker 1: is that supposed to work? You mean, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: no no no. The reason why I'm in a relationship
Speaker 1: and so that you can make me feel a certain
Speaker 1: way and you can validate me in a way that
Speaker 1: I won't do it for myself, especially for women. Women
Speaker 1: are like, hold up, my man is looking at who
Speaker 1: or my woman is looking at who? Own No, I'm
Speaker 1: supposed to be the only one they later on. I mean,
Speaker 1: so I really realized that how much we use our
Speaker 1: relationships to bolster our egos, you know, which has absolutely
Speaker 1: nothing to do with love, nothing at all. Yeah, you
Speaker 1: cannot be an insecure person for a long time. And this,
Speaker 1: just like I told you the other day, as long
Speaker 1: as you are learning to have the greatest love affair
Speaker 1: with Willow, I'm okay with whatever you do. Exactly So,
Speaker 1: Effie Blue, a relationship coach specializing a non monogamy, has
Speaker 1: some advice when it comes to jealousy. Al Right, Effie, Hey,
Speaker 1: I work with people who are curious about transitioning into
Speaker 1: or have hit a roadblock in open relationships. Love that
Speaker 1: jealousy is probably the number one topic that comes up
Speaker 1: when anyone's ever talking about polyamory. It's almost like a
Speaker 1: fire alarm that's going on in your mind, and all
Speaker 1: that's doing is giving your messages something is wrong, something
Speaker 1: is wrong, something is on, something is wrong, and just
Speaker 1: like a fire alarm, you kind of have to like
Speaker 1: turn it off, so you kind of kind of calm
Speaker 1: yourself and search why it's triggered, Like what's causing the
Speaker 1: fire alarm. You just want to get down to the
Speaker 1: root of that insecurity and deal with that. And the
Speaker 1: way that I also like to think about the insecurity
Speaker 1: is also UM giving you a clue to what you
Speaker 1: really truly desire and what you truly want to have,
Speaker 1: then find a way to articulate that to your partners
Speaker 1: or find ways to meet those needs for yourself. Compersion
Speaker 1: is something that's really worth UM talking about if you're
Speaker 1: talking about jealousy. It's what I call the counterboums for jealousy.
Speaker 1: It is UM joy for somebody else's joy that has
Speaker 1: nothing to do with you, and it comes up in
Speaker 1: polyamory often because you are in situations where you see
Speaker 1: a partner of partners having a great time with somebody
Speaker 1: else and they, you know, look radiant or they want
Speaker 1: to tell you all about this amazing person they've just met.
Speaker 1: In those moments, you get to have a choice. You
Speaker 1: can you can feel the jealousy and and and look
Speaker 1: at it as a teacher like what is this telling me?
Speaker 1: You can also nurture this feeling of joy for them,
Speaker 1: which is the feeling of love and happiness that you
Speaker 1: feel because you know your partner is also being fulfilled.
Speaker 1: I practice polyamory myself and I coach people in this,
Speaker 1: so I am an advocate. But polyamory takes a lot
Speaker 1: of bandwidth that's emotional bandwidth, that is a mental bandwidth
Speaker 1: as time, and you know you have to care for
Speaker 1: these people, you have to care for yourself, and not
Speaker 1: everybody has that capacity. And that's okay if you don't
Speaker 1: have it. It's not some evolved like higher way of
Speaker 1: being in your relationships. You really have to be realistic
Speaker 1: of what's available with you and whether you enjoy it
Speaker 1: or not. Not everybody enjoys all those long conversations about
Speaker 1: what you need and what you want, what you want
Speaker 1: the future to look like. Beautiful if that works for you,
Speaker 1: But it's just not for everyone. Yeah, I agree. You
Speaker 1: know what, Effie, kudos, because I think it's important that
Speaker 1: we understand there's not one or the others. You know
Speaker 1: that this is just another option for people who have
Speaker 1: the band with and who want this kind of you know,
Speaker 1: UM way of interacting and reship. Joining us is Michelle.
Speaker 1: She is second generation Asian American and wants to normalize
Speaker 1: non monogamy in the Asian community. Hi, how are you.
Speaker 1: I'm good. I love the demographics at this table here
Speaker 1: because polyamory isn't just for white people, right and right?
Speaker 1: So yeah, I love whenever you know, we get the
Speaker 1: chance to like amplify voices that are marginalized within an
Speaker 1: already marginalized community. Yes, explain to us how polyamory became
Speaker 1: an option for you growing up? Um, I was still
Speaker 1: on the monogamy train, but I had these misgivings. I'm like, well,
Speaker 1: it seems like the monogamy thing isn't perfect or isn't
Speaker 1: as perfect as everyone is saying it is. And when
Speaker 1: I watched movies, like a lot of the time there
Speaker 1: was the woman with the two options that she had
Speaker 1: to choose between, like the love triangle. In my teenage mind,
Speaker 1: I was like, isn't there a way to have an agreement?
Speaker 1: And it just clicked for me and I've never turned
Speaker 1: back since. So, how does your family feel about you
Speaker 1: being Polly? So the only person in my family who
Speaker 1: knows is my sister because we're super super close, and
Speaker 1: I have sort of don't ask, don't tell policy with
Speaker 1: my family. My mom just like wants our family to
Speaker 1: just be together and no conflict. So she I think
Speaker 1: she knows herself well enough not to pry because she
Speaker 1: knows that details of her children's lives would make her uncomfortable.
Speaker 1: And I'm at the point where they were to see
Speaker 1: this or something, I'd be okay with that. I'm just
Speaker 1: in no rush to try to like, Okay, here's the conversation,
Speaker 1: and here's me trying to kind of justify this to you,
Speaker 1: And this is me trying to explain and go through
Speaker 1: this emotional labor to say that, like, this isn't just
Speaker 1: a phase, mom, this is this is very core to
Speaker 1: who I am, and just deal with it. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm in no rush to get into that conversation. No,
Speaker 1: I totally understand that for sure. You know, I'm sitting
Speaker 1: up here and I'm really trying to understand and listen
Speaker 1: and kind of absorbing everything. But as I'm sitting here,
Speaker 1: I'm recognizing it it's really not all that important for
Speaker 1: me to understand. But no, that's that's fact. It's not
Speaker 1: important for me to understand. It's important that i'd be
Speaker 1: able to listen without judgment and let you thing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: if that means three people, if it means ten people,
Speaker 1: if that's what works for you, that's great. It doesn't
Speaker 1: really have anything to do with me. We're seeking acceptance, Yeah, exactly,
Speaker 1: it's not for us to decide for you. What how
Speaker 1: are you supposed to be living your life, not trying
Speaker 1: to break pronogamy a party of new counterculture thing like
Speaker 1: leave me alone, Like like, just let me live my life.
Speaker 1: And I just want to say, I feel so just
Speaker 1: excited and seen because I've been, you know, studying polyamory
Speaker 1: for a really long time and I just want to
Speaker 1: show that there's so much here to be mined and
Speaker 1: to be uncovered. Yeah, I tell you what, this was
Speaker 1: a beautiful uncovering today and burning away the layers and
Speaker 1: the myths around polyamory. So I really appreciate all you coming.
Speaker 1: That was a revelation for me trying understanding I got.
Speaker 1: I just did not have judgment about it. That's the thing.
Speaker 1: I'm good on all that. It might be t m I,
Speaker 1: but I'm okay with you being polyamorous, Willow. I have
Speaker 1: no issue with it now, you just see it like
Speaker 1: more in depth. Yeah. To join the Red Table Talk
Speaker 1: family and become a part of the conversation, follow us
Speaker 1: at facebook dot com slash red table Talk. Thanks for
Speaker 1: listening to this episode of Red Table Talk podcast, produced
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