WEBVTT - #473 Jason Flom with Robert Roberson 0:00:06.160 --> 0:00:11.040 Okay, this is as serious as it gets. Another victim 0:00:11.119 --> 0:00:14.800 of the junk science of shaken baby syndrome, Robert Robertson, 0:00:15.000 --> 0:00:18.200 is scheduled for execution in the state of Texas on 0:00:18.239 --> 0:00:22.320 October seventeenth, twenty twenty four. I visited Robert at the 0:00:22.320 --> 0:00:26.279 Polunski unit outside Houston, just after Memorial Day twenty twenty two, 0:00:26.680 --> 0:00:30.520 and I remember walking away from him with a sick 0:00:30.600 --> 0:00:35.200 feeling in my stomach, knowing that the day might come 0:00:35.400 --> 0:00:37.720 when he would be put to death for a crime 0:00:38.080 --> 0:00:41.599 that never even happened. And here we are now on 0:00:41.640 --> 0:00:45.760 the precipice. Since our original coverage on July seventh, twenty 0:00:45.800 --> 0:00:49.200 twenty two, coverage that gained Robert even more pro bono 0:00:49.280 --> 0:00:53.519 support from the powerful law firm scatin Arps, even the 0:00:53.640 --> 0:00:58.480 lead detective in this case has come forward to acknowledge 0:00:58.520 --> 0:01:02.600 his mistake and asked Robert to forgive him. 0:01:03.000 --> 0:01:04.679 We'll link that video along with. 0:01:04.720 --> 0:01:07.680 Action steps in the episode description, because it looks like 0:01:07.920 --> 0:01:12.120 it's going to take all of our help now if 0:01:12.160 --> 0:01:15.840 this innocent man is going to survive. Here's a new 0:01:15.959 --> 0:01:16.319 edit of. 0:01:16.240 --> 0:01:18.800 Our original coverage of Robert Robertson. 0:01:23.680 --> 0:01:27.119 On January thirty, first, two thousand and two, thirty five 0:01:27.200 --> 0:01:31.039 year old Texan Robertson said that his two year old daughter, Nicki, 0:01:31.280 --> 0:01:33.640 had fallen out of bed in the middle of the night, 0:01:34.640 --> 0:01:37.959 and after comforting her, they both fell back to sleep. 0:01:39.319 --> 0:01:44.199 When he awoke again, Nicky wasn't breathing. Emergency rumor suscitation 0:01:44.319 --> 0:01:47.440 efforts ultimately failed, and little Nicky was. 0:01:47.360 --> 0:01:51.400 Pronounced dead along with a bump on her head. 0:01:51.480 --> 0:01:55.280 An examination revealed brain swelling as well as intracranial and 0:01:55.360 --> 0:01:59.760 retinal bleeding, the findings commonly associated with the now deep 0:01:59.760 --> 0:02:05.320 bunk shaken baby syndrome hypothesis, despite a number of viable 0:02:05.360 --> 0:02:10.960 causes of death. Instead, Robert was accused of violently shaking 0:02:10.960 --> 0:02:14.320 his daughter to death. So the state of Texas now 0:02:14.360 --> 0:02:17.160 intends to put Robert to death as well. 0:02:18.720 --> 0:02:21.280 But this is wrongful conviction. 0:02:28.919 --> 0:02:32.320 Wrongful conviction has always given voice to innocent people in prison, 0:02:32.400 --> 0:02:36.000 and now we're expanding that voice to you. Call us 0:02:36.320 --> 0:02:39.320 at eight three three two O seven four six sixty 0:02:39.360 --> 0:02:41.680 six and tell us how these stories make you feel 0:02:41.880 --> 0:02:44.280 and what you've done to help the cause, even if 0:02:44.320 --> 0:02:47.120 it's something as simple as telling a friend or sharing 0:02:47.160 --> 0:02:50.480 on social media. And you might just hear yourself in 0:02:50.520 --> 0:02:54.360 a future episode. Call us eight three three two oh seven, 0:02:54.520 --> 0:03:06.920 four six sixty six. Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction. I'm 0:03:07.000 --> 0:03:10.680 Jason Flauman. Today's case, unfortunately, is going to sound like 0:03:10.800 --> 0:03:14.800 familiar territory. It's a Shaken Baby prosecution which was based 0:03:14.840 --> 0:03:18.040 on a hypothesis that is now rejected by not only 0:03:18.080 --> 0:03:21.280 the original scientists, but also the scientific and medical communities 0:03:21.280 --> 0:03:24.920 that once held it to be a decided matter. Now, unfortunately, 0:03:24.960 --> 0:03:27.799 some of those attacked with that ill fated diagnosis in 0:03:27.840 --> 0:03:30.280 a court of law are still languishing in prison. Too many, 0:03:30.320 --> 0:03:34.680 I mean countless people, including our guest today who is 0:03:34.720 --> 0:03:38.880 on death row in Texas, Robert Robertson. Now, my producer 0:03:38.960 --> 0:03:41.440 Connor Hall, and I who trek down to the Polunski 0:03:41.520 --> 0:03:42.840 unit in Livingston, Texas to. 0:03:42.800 --> 0:03:44.200 Record an interview with Robert. 0:03:44.360 --> 0:03:47.800 You'll hear pieces of that interspersed throughout our coverage today. 0:03:48.080 --> 0:03:51.960 Joining us now is his appellate attorney, Gretchen Swen. Gretchen, 0:03:52.400 --> 0:03:53.680 Welcome to Ronful Conviction. 0:03:54.120 --> 0:03:55.400 Thank you so much, Jason. 0:03:55.720 --> 0:03:57.920 Now, before we get into Robert's case, I want to 0:03:57.960 --> 0:04:00.960 refer everyone to our coverage of Shake Baby syndrome on 0:04:01.080 --> 0:04:04.200 wrongful conviction junk science, which will be linked in the 0:04:04.240 --> 0:04:08.640 episode description. For decades, when a medical examiner was presented 0:04:08.680 --> 0:04:12.800 with brain swelling, bleeding inside the skull, and bleeding behind 0:04:12.800 --> 0:04:15.440 the eyes of an infant or a toddler, all other 0:04:15.560 --> 0:04:20.160 causes were not first ruled out, but totally ignored, and 0:04:20.480 --> 0:04:24.840 a leap in logic was made to two conclusions. First 0:04:25.200 --> 0:04:28.279 that this triad of findings were caused by violent shaking 0:04:28.320 --> 0:04:33.120 and later abusive head trauma was included, and second that 0:04:33.200 --> 0:04:37.599 the most recent caregiver must be the one responsible. Since 0:04:37.640 --> 0:04:41.400 the late nineties, over eighty medical conditions and still counting, 0:04:41.440 --> 0:04:46.640 have been found to cause that exact triad of findings. Additionally, 0:04:46.800 --> 0:04:52.040 biomechanical studies have revealed that violent shaking simply cannot cause 0:04:52.080 --> 0:04:57.080 the triad without also first causing a spinal injury. Further, 0:04:57.520 --> 0:05:00.560 it's been proven that up to seventy two hours can 0:05:00.600 --> 0:05:04.719 pass by before a child succumbs to these conditions, whether 0:05:04.760 --> 0:05:08.560 the cause was traumatic or simply a medical issue. The 0:05:08.640 --> 0:05:11.960 conclusion is that we cannot determine if a child was 0:05:12.000 --> 0:05:16.599 abused or violently shaken without first ruling out all the 0:05:16.680 --> 0:05:21.080 other causes and after doing so, we cannot reliably place 0:05:21.200 --> 0:05:24.919 blame on the last person with them, And unfortunately, Robert 0:05:25.000 --> 0:05:29.560 Robertson was that final caretaker and he was particularly vulnerable 0:05:29.680 --> 0:05:30.440 to prosecution. 0:05:30.800 --> 0:05:36.200 This is somebody who grew up dirt poor in East Texas. 0:05:36.560 --> 0:05:39.520 He was in special ed classes. He was the one 0:05:39.520 --> 0:05:42.919 who was bullied. There was a lot of violence in 0:05:42.960 --> 0:05:47.000 the home. But you had a mother who loved him dearly. 0:05:47.160 --> 0:05:49.760 But you know, he drops out in ninth grade. You know, 0:05:49.800 --> 0:05:51.800 he was on the radar in terms of this is 0:05:51.839 --> 0:05:55.080 a struggling kid and stumbles into what happens with so 0:05:55.160 --> 0:05:58.919 many poor, traumatized kids. He struggles with drug addiction. But 0:05:59.200 --> 0:06:02.520 this is a intul soul. And you know, you spend 0:06:02.560 --> 0:06:06.039 five minutes with Robert and you see his speech is 0:06:06.160 --> 0:06:09.440 unusual and he has this sort of flat affect and 0:06:09.480 --> 0:06:11.640 he struggles to speak. 0:06:12.040 --> 0:06:15.440 Okay, so you got some questions of something. 0:06:16.440 --> 0:06:18.640 Sure, So yeah, let me just introduce. 0:06:18.720 --> 0:06:21.720 First of all, this is drawn for conviction from death 0:06:21.800 --> 0:06:25.279 row in Texas. We're here on the Polunsky unit, where 0:06:25.279 --> 0:06:28.200 we've been before to visit Rob will and Rodney Reid. 0:06:28.279 --> 0:06:31.359 Today we're here with another innocent man, man named Robert Robertson. 0:06:31.760 --> 0:06:34.080 The man himself is like a big teddy bear. He's 0:06:34.080 --> 0:06:37.000 sitting right across from me through this window of bulletproof glass. 0:06:37.120 --> 0:06:40.760 Robert, thank you for being here to talk to us today. 0:06:40.880 --> 0:06:41.920 Thank you for being here. 0:06:42.000 --> 0:06:45.080 And Robert, going back to the beginning, did you grow 0:06:45.160 --> 0:06:46.080 up in Texas? 0:06:46.400 --> 0:06:48.599 I was born in Minneola, Texas and stuff, and we 0:06:48.640 --> 0:06:50.839 lived in Winnsboro until I was six years old, you know, 0:06:51.360 --> 0:06:53.880 and then my dad worked for the railroad and his 0:06:54.000 --> 0:06:55.520 job transferred to Palestine. 0:06:55.600 --> 0:06:58.720 Anderson Kenny, you know, you had a very difficult childhood, 0:06:58.720 --> 0:06:59.520 is that fair to say? 0:07:00.720 --> 0:07:02.279 My dad was real rough and my mom. 0:07:02.720 --> 0:07:05.640 My mom was like the glue to the family and stuff, 0:07:05.680 --> 0:07:07.800 you know, like the protection stuff, but dad would like 0:07:07.839 --> 0:07:08.440 to provide her. 0:07:09.240 --> 0:07:11.160 And then you ended up going into the military. 0:07:11.280 --> 0:07:14.480 And I went to the military when I was seventeen 0:07:14.720 --> 0:07:17.920 Army and they gave me a medical discharge letter on 0:07:17.960 --> 0:07:19.920 because they said I couldn't adapt, or something like a 0:07:20.160 --> 0:07:21.200 training discharge. You know. 0:07:22.520 --> 0:07:25.280 It has since been determined that Robert is on the 0:07:25.320 --> 0:07:28.400 autism spectrum, but at that time he was just twenty 0:07:28.520 --> 0:07:30.280 years old with two children. 0:07:29.880 --> 0:07:31.160 Who had special needs. 0:07:31.720 --> 0:07:36.400 Robert and the kid's mother depended on the grandparents for help. Eventually, 0:07:36.680 --> 0:07:39.760 Robert had a third child, Nicki Bowman, whose custody was 0:07:39.800 --> 0:07:42.600 also shared, but there was a more contentious relationship with 0:07:42.680 --> 0:07:46.800 her grandparents. In addition, Nicki was born with a host 0:07:46.840 --> 0:07:50.480 of medical issues that it appears were never properly diagnosed 0:07:50.840 --> 0:07:51.400 or treated. 0:07:52.160 --> 0:07:56.600 Nicki had been sick from essentially birth. This is a 0:07:56.840 --> 0:08:00.040 child on Medicaid. You know, she's being brought in and 0:08:00.120 --> 0:08:02.720 they're like, Ah, this antibiotic doesn't seem to work, let's 0:08:02.760 --> 0:08:05.080 give her another one, you know, over and over again. 0:08:05.080 --> 0:08:07.640 And so there is a real tragedy in this child's 0:08:07.640 --> 0:08:10.520 short life of just the medical failures to get at 0:08:10.520 --> 0:08:13.400 what's going on with her. But I think that's sort 0:08:13.400 --> 0:08:15.520 of where the story begins. And then, you know, if 0:08:15.560 --> 0:08:18.240 you get to the point of trial, they acted like 0:08:18.360 --> 0:08:21.760 this history did not exist or certainly didn't matter that 0:08:21.800 --> 0:08:25.760 you have a kid infected from eight days old pretty 0:08:25.840 --> 0:08:30.200 much onward. But the week before her collapse, she had 0:08:30.280 --> 0:08:34.640 been brought to the er with initially one hundred and 0:08:34.720 --> 0:08:38.640 three point five fever. I believe she was throwing up. 0:08:38.720 --> 0:08:42.920 She had chronic diarrhea and trouble breathing. At this point, 0:08:43.320 --> 0:08:49.360 she has prescribed this medication, Finnergen, which contains promethazine, which 0:08:49.400 --> 0:08:51.920 now has a black box warning from the FDA that 0:08:51.960 --> 0:08:54.400 you don't give this to kids under the age of ten, 0:08:54.600 --> 0:08:58.360 and certainly don't give it to kids with respiratory issues 0:08:58.400 --> 0:09:01.680 because it might cause death. A few days later, she 0:09:01.880 --> 0:09:05.280 at the doctor the day after the emergency visit, had 0:09:05.360 --> 0:09:08.480 a fever over one hundred and four. They also give 0:09:08.559 --> 0:09:13.360 her another prescription for Finnergen, along with codine costster and 0:09:13.440 --> 0:09:17.920 which metastasizes into morphine. You know, they're treating it as 0:09:17.960 --> 0:09:22.080 if it's some you know, annoying cold, but you're suppressing 0:09:22.280 --> 0:09:25.560 the respiratory system of a kid already in distress. So 0:09:25.880 --> 0:09:29.400 a day later, Robert is called by the grandparents who 0:09:29.400 --> 0:09:31.720 had been feuding with his mom for a year, to 0:09:31.840 --> 0:09:35.080 come get this child who is sick and take her 0:09:35.160 --> 0:09:37.839 home back to his place. To me, this is another 0:09:37.880 --> 0:09:39.520 part of the mystery. If you have a sick two 0:09:39.600 --> 0:09:42.160 year old, I wonder what parent wants somebody to come 0:09:42.160 --> 0:09:44.960 out to the country pick up the child at nine 0:09:45.000 --> 0:09:49.440 o'clock at night and knowing he's alone because his girlfriend's 0:09:49.480 --> 0:09:52.480 getting a hysterectomy in the hospital. But oh, no, Robert 0:09:52.600 --> 0:09:55.199 needs to come out and fetch this child, take her home. 0:09:55.600 --> 0:09:58.120 This was January thirtieth into the thirty first of two 0:09:58.160 --> 0:10:01.840 thousand and two, and on this particular night, Robert was 0:10:01.880 --> 0:10:05.040 prepared to care for his then fiance in the wake 0:10:05.080 --> 0:10:06.000 of her has. 0:10:05.840 --> 0:10:08.960 Directed me his fiance is coming home from the hospital. 0:10:08.960 --> 0:10:12.199 He's trying to elevate the bed. The bed was really 0:10:12.559 --> 0:10:16.400 box springs and a mattress propped up on cinderblocks. But 0:10:16.480 --> 0:10:19.400 you look at these pictures in this bed, it's precarious. 0:10:19.800 --> 0:10:23.199 You know, that's where Nikki was sleeping. So it's completely 0:10:23.320 --> 0:10:26.679 legit that a disoriented, sick child full of all these 0:10:26.760 --> 0:10:30.040 drugs tries to get up in the night and falls 0:10:30.080 --> 0:10:33.880 off the bed, and that would very easily explain this 0:10:34.040 --> 0:10:36.720 bump on the back of her head. It's in the 0:10:36.840 --> 0:10:41.000 night where he wakes up to this strange cry. And 0:10:41.520 --> 0:10:45.320 his report consistently was he found her on the floor 0:10:45.320 --> 0:10:47.200 at the foot of the bed. Didn't know what happened, 0:10:47.240 --> 0:10:49.560 but he saw a little bit of blood on her mouth. 0:10:50.040 --> 0:10:53.800 He got a washcloth, wiped it off, kept her sitting 0:10:53.880 --> 0:10:56.920 up for a while because she'd fallen out, so he 0:10:56.960 --> 0:10:59.000 thought maybe she hit her head and he'd been told 0:10:59.000 --> 0:11:01.120 if somebody hits their head, you have to keep him awake, 0:11:02.120 --> 0:11:06.560 and then they fall back asleep. His alarm goes off. 0:11:06.720 --> 0:11:11.400 A few hours later, he wakes up, finds Nicky Blue 0:11:11.440 --> 0:11:15.880 not breathing, faint heartbeat. He panics, shakes her a little 0:11:16.080 --> 0:11:19.760 to try to rouse her. Meanwhile, his girlfriend's calling him 0:11:19.760 --> 0:11:23.160 from the hospital to come get her, and he reports, well, 0:11:23.240 --> 0:11:26.440 Nicky's not breathing. He gets in the car, drives the 0:11:26.480 --> 0:11:29.400 short distance to the hospital. But the child never really 0:11:29.440 --> 0:11:32.200 recovers from this, and we have no idea how long 0:11:32.600 --> 0:11:36.040 had she ceased breathing. He gets up there into the er. 0:11:36.480 --> 0:11:39.040 They see this, you know, guy standing there with a 0:11:39.120 --> 0:11:39.959 limp child. 0:11:40.640 --> 0:11:43.640 And let's not forget how Robert presents to the world. 0:11:43.679 --> 0:11:47.480 He's a large man, well over six feet two hundred 0:11:47.520 --> 0:11:49.400 pounds and socially awkward. 0:11:50.200 --> 0:11:53.679 Immediately the judgment start, they assume he did something to 0:11:53.720 --> 0:11:56.760 this child, whisk her away, clothe Blue, but by that 0:11:56.880 --> 0:12:00.000 point her eyes were already fixed and dilated, which means 0:12:00.200 --> 0:12:03.160 she'd probably already experience brain death. It doesn't take long, 0:12:03.200 --> 0:12:06.880 it's about twelve minutes without oxygen. The brain shuts down. 0:12:07.120 --> 0:12:09.520 Once your brain dies you're not coming back to life, 0:12:09.920 --> 0:12:12.760 but you revive the heart. You're pumping all this blood 0:12:12.760 --> 0:12:15.880 into the system, increasing the blood inside her head that 0:12:15.920 --> 0:12:18.080 can no longer get into the brain. They get her 0:12:18.080 --> 0:12:20.760 heart going and it's about the same time they do 0:12:20.880 --> 0:12:24.040 a scan of her head and they notice the goose egg, 0:12:24.280 --> 0:12:27.160 you know, swollen tissue on the back of her head. 0:12:27.360 --> 0:12:31.200 But the cat scan showed that there was subdural bleeding 0:12:31.400 --> 0:12:34.560 and that the brain had swollen, and that then later 0:12:34.640 --> 0:12:37.760 on they realized they're also retinal hemorrhages, and this is 0:12:37.800 --> 0:12:42.880 the classic triad associated with shaking. So this bump on 0:12:42.920 --> 0:12:45.960 the head. One doctor that sees her later that day 0:12:46.000 --> 0:12:49.800 says that was minor, that could have happened at another time. 0:12:50.240 --> 0:12:53.760 But all this internal stuff, oh, that must have been 0:12:53.800 --> 0:12:57.240 caused by violent shaking and then flinging the child down 0:12:57.280 --> 0:13:00.320 against something. This became the theory instant. 0:13:00.120 --> 0:13:04.160 Late soon Nikki was pronounced dead, and it appears there 0:13:04.160 --> 0:13:07.120 are several avenues that could have led to both her 0:13:07.200 --> 0:13:11.080 demise as well as the triad of findings Number one. 0:13:11.160 --> 0:13:14.400 There are now FDA warnings that fenrigan can cause respiratory 0:13:14.440 --> 0:13:18.120 failure in children under age ten. Codine can also lead 0:13:18.160 --> 0:13:23.120 to suppressed respiration. In this case, there are two subsequent possibilities. 0:13:23.679 --> 0:13:27.400 A oxygen deprivation is one of the over eighty medical 0:13:27.440 --> 0:13:30.480 conditions that can cause the triad of findings, and B 0:13:30.760 --> 0:13:35.319 the post brain death resuscitation effort pumped blood into her 0:13:35.320 --> 0:13:39.160 cranial cavity, yet was viewed as a symptom with which 0:13:39.280 --> 0:13:43.840 she had arrived at the hospital. The second avenue short falls, 0:13:44.080 --> 0:13:46.080 like the one Robert said Nikki had taken from the 0:13:46.080 --> 0:13:49.840 elevated bed, has been enough in previous cases to cause 0:13:49.960 --> 0:13:54.040 the same triad and therefore her death. Not to mention 0:13:54.320 --> 0:13:58.160 that any accidental trauma of this type could have occurred 0:13:58.400 --> 0:14:02.319 up to seventy two hours before her untimely demise. 0:14:02.880 --> 0:14:05.960 We now know that a short umbraced fall where you 0:14:06.040 --> 0:14:09.520 hit your head, especially in a young child, there could 0:14:09.520 --> 0:14:14.800 be hours and even days before symptoms arise. You can 0:14:14.840 --> 0:14:19.560 have a traumatic brain injury and yet the manifestations aren't visible. 0:14:19.960 --> 0:14:22.200 It's terrifying but true. Now. 0:14:22.560 --> 0:14:26.800 Thirdly, years later, a re examination of Nikki's medical records 0:14:26.800 --> 0:14:30.600 and autopsy have revealed that she was suffering from viral pneumonia, 0:14:30.840 --> 0:14:33.680 another one of the non violent medical causes for the 0:14:33.720 --> 0:14:38.440 triad of findings and therefore her death. Yet somehow all 0:14:38.600 --> 0:14:42.360 of these possibilities were not ruled out but ignored. 0:14:43.040 --> 0:14:46.640 You have to realize that this is a small rural community. 0:14:46.960 --> 0:14:51.080 The same er doctor is on duty, who is the 0:14:51.120 --> 0:14:55.080 one who was giving her the finnergen oh boy, and 0:14:55.400 --> 0:14:58.200 the pediatrician that it had her come to the office 0:14:58.400 --> 0:15:01.360 and measured her fever at one oh four point five, 0:15:01.880 --> 0:15:04.640 came to the hospital and he's weighing in. And these 0:15:04.680 --> 0:15:09.560 are the people interviewing Robert, which in my mind, these 0:15:09.560 --> 0:15:15.120 are interested witnesses, and they, along with this collection of nurses, 0:15:15.120 --> 0:15:17.720 are making judgments about this man. And a lot of 0:15:17.720 --> 0:15:20.080 the testimony at his trial, which I know we'll get to, 0:15:20.200 --> 0:15:23.920 but right away, they're these judgments. He wasn't crying at 0:15:23.920 --> 0:15:28.560 the right times, he wasn't showing enough concern. He was 0:15:28.760 --> 0:15:30.120 just standing there. 0:15:31.080 --> 0:15:33.480 When I brought into the hospital, I was freaking out, 0:15:33.480 --> 0:15:35.320 freaking out and stuff because that kind of accused me 0:15:36.320 --> 0:15:38.440 being responsible for what happened to her and stuff, you know, 0:15:38.920 --> 0:15:40.240 And that's oh, because he's. 0:15:40.080 --> 0:15:42.880 Actually a certain way he must be guilty. 0:15:42.920 --> 0:15:45.520 You know, when you've been accused of something, you could 0:15:45.520 --> 0:15:48.720 be nervous or something you know, for that to happen 0:15:48.800 --> 0:15:51.680 to your child, child and stuff like getting there, I 0:15:51.720 --> 0:15:52.920 don't think nobody's. 0:15:52.520 --> 0:15:54.440 Gonna be in the right mind, you know stuff. 0:15:54.480 --> 0:15:57.080 You know, losinger is bad enough, but been accused of 0:15:57.080 --> 0:15:58.000 it that's even worse. 0:15:58.000 --> 0:16:13.680 You know, you're listening to wrongful conviction. You can listen 0:16:13.680 --> 0:16:16.120 to this and all the Lava for Good podcasts one 0:16:16.160 --> 0:16:19.400 week early and ad free by subscribing to Lava for 0:16:19.480 --> 0:16:26.120 Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. 0:16:26.120 --> 0:16:29.080 She had a fall that could very well have started 0:16:29.120 --> 0:16:32.080 the subdural bleeding, but she didn't even have skull fractures. 0:16:32.280 --> 0:16:35.960 What Nikki had was this is critical, only one impact 0:16:36.000 --> 0:16:40.440 sites on her exterior. To this day, the medical examiner 0:16:40.640 --> 0:16:44.920 insists that she saw evidence of multiple impact sites to 0:16:45.000 --> 0:16:48.760 Nicki's head because of all the blood underneath. 0:16:49.840 --> 0:16:52.840 Interestingly, the cat scans that could have debunked this assertion 0:16:53.000 --> 0:16:55.800 went missing for almost twenty years, so even though there 0:16:55.800 --> 0:16:58.880 was only one bump on Nikki's head, this medical examiner, 0:16:58.880 --> 0:17:01.920 doctor Jill Urban, claimed that the subdural up leading was 0:17:01.920 --> 0:17:05.159 the result of multiple blood force head injuries, ruling the 0:17:05.240 --> 0:17:10.320 death of homicide before any other testing, including a toxicology 0:17:10.359 --> 0:17:13.840 report that disclosed a lethal amount of fettergan. So the 0:17:13.960 --> 0:17:18.400 same people who had missed the viral pneumonia and unknowingly 0:17:18.520 --> 0:17:21.840 prescribed a deadly drug to the same toddler were the 0:17:22.040 --> 0:17:26.000 exact people looking at Roberts sideways. But it gets even worse. 0:17:26.119 --> 0:17:29.320 A nurse, who by the way, was not certified to 0:17:29.400 --> 0:17:33.960 perform sexual assault exams, volunteered to examine the child and 0:17:34.000 --> 0:17:36.639 proceeded to tell hospital staff and law enforcement that she 0:17:36.760 --> 0:17:38.080 saw anal tearing. 0:17:38.680 --> 0:17:42.679 Jason, I do think this is the tail wagging the 0:17:42.760 --> 0:17:45.960 dog here. You have a week's worth of diarrhea. You're 0:17:46.000 --> 0:17:48.560 going to have in a two year old child, some 0:17:48.720 --> 0:17:52.639 redness on their bottom. But she starts telling people, including 0:17:52.680 --> 0:17:56.280 the lead investigator in the hospital, what she sees. I 0:17:56.280 --> 0:17:59.359 think then you have mind blindness set in all of 0:17:59.400 --> 0:18:02.840 the officers. Nurse looking at Robert through the lens of 0:18:03.320 --> 0:18:06.840 here is a man who potentially anally raped his two 0:18:06.880 --> 0:18:10.200 year old daughter. Then that takes over. They do a 0:18:10.359 --> 0:18:14.119 sexual assault test on swabs taken from this child. Nothing. 0:18:14.600 --> 0:18:18.040 They test everything they can find in the bedroom, nothing 0:18:18.119 --> 0:18:24.840 to confirm this sexual assault hypothesis. Now they share this finding, 0:18:24.960 --> 0:18:30.080 quote unquote with the medical team at Dallas Children's well, 0:18:30.160 --> 0:18:33.520 the child abuse expert doctor Squires, who apparently you know, 0:18:33.600 --> 0:18:35.760 is looking all the time for sexual abuse, says she 0:18:35.920 --> 0:18:39.760 does not see what this nurse saw. All she saw 0:18:39.880 --> 0:18:42.400 is what she said at trial, was what every mother 0:18:42.480 --> 0:18:46.760 has probably seen, which you know looks akin to diaper rash. 0:18:46.960 --> 0:18:50.200 Yet that was not the last time this accusation was raised. 0:18:50.240 --> 0:18:54.240 In the meantime, this rural hospital also looked to Dallas 0:18:54.359 --> 0:18:57.840 Children's Hospital to confirm their finding of homicide. 0:18:58.400 --> 0:19:01.400 When Nikki is taken to Dallas Children's they look at 0:19:01.440 --> 0:19:04.439 the cat scans and say this is essentially classic shaken 0:19:04.520 --> 0:19:08.639 baby because of the triad. The child abused expert doctor 0:19:08.680 --> 0:19:12.760 Squires says, I was told that this was a healthy child. 0:19:12.840 --> 0:19:16.480 She was quote totally well right before her collapse. So 0:19:16.560 --> 0:19:20.720 the only explanation is that she was violently shaken. Now, first, 0:19:20.920 --> 0:19:22.760 as you know we were discussing earlier, it was it's 0:19:22.800 --> 0:19:25.480 a total lie to suggest this was a totally well child. 0:19:25.640 --> 0:19:29.120 This was a chronically ill child with infections that had 0:19:29.160 --> 0:19:32.560 resisted I think five different kinds of antibiotics. She has 0:19:32.600 --> 0:19:34.679 a viral infection. Nobody is getting it. 0:19:34.760 --> 0:19:38.760 So doctor Squire supported the homicide ruling without knowing Icky's 0:19:38.760 --> 0:19:41.800 medical history. In addition, the medical community at that time 0:19:41.880 --> 0:19:44.600 was unaware of the potential for a lucid interval of 0:19:44.680 --> 0:19:46.760 up to seventy two hours from the time of a 0:19:46.800 --> 0:19:50.119 traumatic event or of the health condition induced onset of 0:19:50.119 --> 0:19:52.879 the triad, and even though Robert had just received Nikki 0:19:52.960 --> 0:19:55.920 from her grandparents, that left only him as a possible 0:19:55.960 --> 0:19:59.200 shaking suspect. In addition, the medical community at this time 0:19:59.359 --> 0:20:01.879 was also on aware that in order for shaking to 0:20:02.000 --> 0:20:05.399 cause this triad, there had to have first been a 0:20:05.520 --> 0:20:09.040 neck injury, and that was not present in Nicki's case. 0:20:09.480 --> 0:20:15.080 She had no neck injury. But unfortunately, tragically, this discovery 0:20:15.359 --> 0:20:17.600 was a few years too late to help Robert. When 0:20:17.640 --> 0:20:19.679 it was made by biomechanical engineers. 0:20:20.320 --> 0:20:23.560 That's the community that started to point out to the 0:20:23.600 --> 0:20:28.600 medical community that this hypothesis was unfounded. It's like, we're 0:20:28.640 --> 0:20:32.080 studying injuries to children. We're the ones that are coming 0:20:32.160 --> 0:20:35.359 up with things like car seats for children and helmets, 0:20:35.400 --> 0:20:39.359 and you know, shaking does not cause this kind of 0:20:39.400 --> 0:20:43.520 injury in any experiment that's ever been documented. So there 0:20:43.520 --> 0:20:47.639 are two fallacies at the very heart of the SBS phenomenon. 0:20:47.640 --> 0:20:51.400 One is that shaking could cause bridging veins in your 0:20:51.520 --> 0:20:56.480 dura to rupture. No, and that shaking would not cause 0:20:56.720 --> 0:21:01.040 neck injuries. Also, No, and Nikki had absolutely nothing wrong 0:21:01.040 --> 0:21:05.200 with her neck. But it was already orthodoxy by this point, 0:21:05.240 --> 0:21:07.640 it was being taught in medical schools. And that's why 0:21:07.680 --> 0:21:10.600 I think it just has such staying power as a 0:21:10.720 --> 0:21:14.199 legal phenomenon when it has no scientific support, because so 0:21:14.240 --> 0:21:17.600 many people's lives have been ruined, so they keep tweaking 0:21:17.880 --> 0:21:20.800 how you're supposed to go about making the diagnosis. But 0:21:21.080 --> 0:21:25.080 in the day when Robert was quickly written off as guilty, 0:21:25.119 --> 0:21:28.280 there was no internal doubt within the medical community. So 0:21:28.320 --> 0:21:31.199 he's arrested that day on that information. 0:21:31.760 --> 0:21:35.720 And then the prosecutor once again raised the sexual assault allegations, 0:21:35.800 --> 0:21:40.040 even though their own medical experts would not support. 0:21:39.680 --> 0:21:42.560 It, and yet they dare to indict him on this. 0:21:43.359 --> 0:21:48.400 And every single potential juror is asked about the sexual 0:21:48.400 --> 0:21:50.720 abuse component that's going to be a part of this 0:21:50.840 --> 0:21:54.320 trial along with shaken baby. Every single juror is told 0:21:54.760 --> 0:21:57.800 that's the theory the state has, that there was sexual 0:21:57.800 --> 0:22:01.440 assault and that's the motivation for him to violently shake 0:22:01.520 --> 0:22:02.880 her to cover this effort. 0:22:02.960 --> 0:22:06.280 So He was represented, if we can call it that, 0:22:06.400 --> 0:22:09.399 by Steve Evans and John Van Meader. Talk to us 0:22:09.480 --> 0:22:12.320 about their efforts or lack thereof. 0:22:13.680 --> 0:22:18.160 They stated on the record in opening statements that this 0:22:18.480 --> 0:22:22.320 was unfortunately a shaken baby case, no doubt about it. 0:22:22.760 --> 0:22:27.520 At that time, there were very few experts even available 0:22:27.600 --> 0:22:31.760 to come in and challenge the state's causation theory. This 0:22:31.960 --> 0:22:36.560 was two thousand and two. Everybody believed shaken baby was 0:22:36.600 --> 0:22:39.240 an article of faith. It had been accepted by the 0:22:39.280 --> 0:22:43.040 American Pediatric Association. Some of the people that came to 0:22:43.119 --> 0:22:48.040 our aid only recently, some very famous, renowned experts in 0:22:48.119 --> 0:22:51.359 two thousand and one, two thousand and two, two thousand 0:22:51.359 --> 0:22:55.000 and three were just starting to sound the alarm. 0:22:55.480 --> 0:22:58.720 So the knowledge wasn't even really readily available to his 0:22:58.920 --> 0:23:02.639 own attorneys for them to even believe in his innocence. 0:23:02.960 --> 0:23:05.560 And they saw their job as just to try to 0:23:05.600 --> 0:23:07.959 prevent entry of a death sentence. 0:23:08.800 --> 0:23:11.679 Mantonia Trull had two where they had tried to do 0:23:11.720 --> 0:23:13.520 a plea barg stuff. And I told him I didn't 0:23:13.520 --> 0:23:15.560 do nothing. My mama said, I didn't do nothing. Don't 0:23:15.680 --> 0:23:18.280 take nothing right. The thing he is my mama, family 0:23:18.320 --> 0:23:20.800 lawyer had gave her a pamphlet to go to Trinity 0:23:20.840 --> 0:23:24.080 develop a community college, and Athens for seminar I was 0:23:24.080 --> 0:23:25.280 shaking baby cases. 0:23:25.720 --> 0:23:29.159 Who did she see there? Douglow the head DA he 0:23:29.240 --> 0:23:30.760 didn't know what was going on either. 0:23:31.560 --> 0:23:34.639 It appears that the prosecution and the defense team were 0:23:34.960 --> 0:23:38.679