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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch us

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Speaker 1: live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, the

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Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg Business app, or listen on

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Speaker 1: demand wherever you get your podcasts.

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Speaker 2: House Republicans have succeeded in passing a defense authorization bill,

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Speaker 2: typically not controversial, in this case, one that takes aim

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Speaker 2: at social issues inside the Pentagon, following another twenty four

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Speaker 2: hours of intense debates here inside the Capitol.

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Speaker 3: Just focus on the military. Stop using taxpayer money to

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Speaker 3: do their own wocism. A military cannot defend themselves if

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Speaker 3: you train them and work. We don't want Disneyland to

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Speaker 3: train our military. We want our men and women in

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Speaker 3: the military to have every defense possible, and that's what

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Speaker 3: our bill does. The money focuses directly on their quality

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Speaker 3: of life and more importantly, on the investment.

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Speaker 4: This amendment does nothing to address the recruitment short balls

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Speaker 4: that our services are facing, and instead it will only

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Speaker 4: make it more difficult to recruit Americans on diverse backgrounds

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Speaker 4: representing the true makeup of our nation.

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Speaker 5: What are you so afraid out?

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Speaker 4: Why do you keep bringing these divisive issues to the

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Speaker 4: Body of this floor.

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Speaker 5: You are out of order, You are exhausting.

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Speaker 1: Centerment is no longer recognized, The gentleman is no longer recognized.

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Speaker 2: Just a taste from the last twenty four hours inside

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Speaker 2: the House of Representatives, Speaker Kevin McCarthy today taking the

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Speaker 2: victory lap after the vote that did include four four

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Speaker 2: Democrats two nineteen to ten. The final a magnet for

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Speaker 2: culture wars. As I read from Roxana Tyron on the

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Speaker 2: terminal over far right House Republican demands to load the

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Speaker 2: crucial national security legislation with hot button topics, Let's get

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Speaker 2: straight to the hill. In a conversation with Bloomberg congressional

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Speaker 2: reporter Eric Wasson, who's been watching all of this unfold

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Speaker 2: before his eyes. Eric, this is a win for Speaker McCarthy,

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Speaker 2: but it doesn't have much promise going anywhere from here,

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Speaker 2: does it.

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Speaker 6: Well, it's certainly the House position. It's a very partisan bill.

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Speaker 6: Usually we see this National defense bill past the House

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Speaker 6: and something like a three hundred to one hundred vote

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Speaker 6: with Progressives normally voting against it. But this was very,

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Speaker 6: very close because all the security hawks and Democratic side vaulted.

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Speaker 6: The exception of four as you mentioned, over these hot

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Speaker 6: button issues, especially the abortion one. This denies funding to

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Speaker 6: allow troops to travel in order to obtain an abortion

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Speaker 6: in a state where it's still legal. So you know

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Speaker 6: that's going to you know, come up against the Senate

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Speaker 6: NDAA defense bill that's going to reach the floor starting

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Speaker 6: next week, and ultimately there's going to be a conference committee.

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Speaker 6: But I think a lot of those hot button issues

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Speaker 6: will probably drop out. I don't see the President signing

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Speaker 6: a bill with them in it.

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Speaker 2: Yes, right, A statement from Congress from Chip Roy the

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Speaker 2: Freedom Caucus. House Republicans successfully passed my amendments to ban

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Speaker 2: critical race theory at Department of Defense schools, prevent the

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Speaker 2: DoD from re establishing chief Diversity officers, and stop defense

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Speaker 2: dollars from going to President Biden's radical climate change agenda. Critically,

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Speaker 2: he says, House Republicans also passed my and Rep. Ronnie

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Speaker 2: Jackson's amendment to stop funding the Pentagon's abortion travel fund,

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Speaker 2: among other wins, as he refers to them, such as

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Speaker 2: halting taxpayer funding for gender transition surgeries in the military.

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Speaker 2: Does any of this end up in a final product.

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Speaker 6: Well, you know, we see a lot of effort on

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Speaker 6: this diversity inclusion critical race theory. I mean, it's a

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Speaker 6: small dollar amount maybe something like that. But at the

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Speaker 6: end of the day, this was a very tough vote

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Speaker 6: I think for a lot of moderate especially New York

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Speaker 6: Republicans or other swing district of Republicans you know, who

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Speaker 6: had to basically swallow these amendment. They're going to see

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Speaker 6: already a Democratic attacks saying you know, you voted, you know,

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Speaker 6: to block abortion, to do other things that maybe independent

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Speaker 6: voters in those districts don't like. It was also a

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Speaker 6: tough vote for some I think democratic caut you know,

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Speaker 6: people like Ruben Gaego running for Senate in Arizona having

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Speaker 6: to vote against you know, a defense. Still, it's just

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Speaker 6: a it's a tough vote all around. But the end

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Speaker 6: of the day, probably voters will forget it. We're going

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Speaker 6: to see them come together before the end of the

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Speaker 6: year on a compromise package where they can you know,

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Speaker 6: establish their bonafidees there.

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Speaker 2: Eric, thanks for the uptape. Eric Wasson, Bloomberg Congressional reporter,

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Speaker 2: first hand insights there from someone actually in the halls

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Speaker 2: of Congress after the vote last night. This both the

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Speaker 2: ages or two hundred nineteen and the nays are two

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Speaker 2: hundred and ten. The bill has passed with that objection

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Speaker 2: and most of re considered. This is laid on the

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Speaker 2: table there. It is, as you just heard two nineteen

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Speaker 2: two ten, four Democrats required to do that. It was

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Speaker 2: actually not last night. It was a short time ago

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Speaker 2: earlier today in Washington. Let's assemble the panel for their take.

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Speaker 2: Rick Davis and Jeanie Schanzeno are with us Bloomberg Politics contributors.

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Speaker 2: Happy Friday to both of you. Rick, that was some

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Speaker 2: pretty wild decorum on the floor when this really got

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Speaker 2: down to the brass tacks last night, going into the

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Speaker 2: this morning, we had a tough Rules committee hearing over

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Speaker 2: the course of two days. Why would Speaker McCarthy invite

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Speaker 2: or allow all of this?

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Speaker 7: Yeah, look, I mean he's in a trap, right, he

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Speaker 7: doesn't have very much power. It's being driven really from

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Speaker 7: the far right, the Magaite, the Freedom Caucus, and we

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Speaker 7: saw that in full display. They took control of the

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Speaker 7: debate on the House floor and there's nothing really that

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Speaker 7: the speaker can do to shut them down because they

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Speaker 7: have a trigger, you know, on the gun that you know,

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Speaker 7: keeps him in the speakership. And so this is a

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Speaker 7: really bad slippery slope that's been created, and not just

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Speaker 7: because of the debate being so jaded when it comes

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Speaker 7: to non defense related discussions. But the reality is, this

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Speaker 7: has been a very bipartisan bill and it always passes.

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Speaker 5: Right.

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Speaker 7: This is the one bill a year that's what we

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Speaker 7: keep that's gonna happen right, no matter what, because the

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Speaker 7: defense of our nation is utmost in our in our

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Speaker 7: leader's minds except for yesterday, and and and so I

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Speaker 7: worry that this kind of lack of control, lack of

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Speaker 7: power that the Speaker has starts us down a track

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Speaker 7: where all of a sudden, we can't say that about

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Speaker 7: the NBA anymore, and then we're in real trouble. If

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Speaker 7: we don't maintain some level of bipartisanship in our national defense,

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Speaker 7: then it's going to make us weaker as a nation.

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Speaker 5: Genie.

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Speaker 2: We talked to Congresswoman Abigail Spanberger, a Democrat from Virginia,

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Speaker 2: about this last night. She knows what it means to

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Speaker 2: serve her country, and she has a lot of active

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Speaker 2: duty members of the military living in her districts and

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Speaker 2: didn't seem terribly worried. While she didn't like what was happening,

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Speaker 2: didn't seem terribly worried about the outcome. Listen to what

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Speaker 2: she said.

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Speaker 8: I think ultimately a Pentagon funding isn't at risk. But

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Speaker 8: what we know is happening, at least here in the

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Speaker 8: House of Representatives, is that there is a relatively unseerious

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Speaker 8: effort at trying to make substantial changes to what is

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Speaker 8: usually a must pass, wholly by partisan piece of legislation.

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Speaker 2: Sim Slee, what Rick just said, Genie, do you share

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Speaker 2: her thought that while we have a lot of noise

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Speaker 2: and concern right now and in some cases ugly debate,

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Speaker 2: this ends up being the traditional bill when it's passing

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Speaker 2: the end, it.

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Speaker 9: Will absolutely there is no way the Senate passes the

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Speaker 9: bill with the amendments that were put forward today. It's

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Speaker 9: going They're all going to get swept out. They will

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Speaker 9: pass a bill funding the military. But so the real

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Speaker 9: danger here is to Kevin McCarthy himself. You know, I

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Speaker 9: know people are describing this as a win for Kevin McCarthy.

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Speaker 9: That is, you know, head scratching to me, because how

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Speaker 9: is this a win for Kevin McCarthy. Let's just think

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Speaker 9: about it. This is a gift number one for the

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Speaker 9: Biden campaign who want them to do these extreme things

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Speaker 9: and describe them as extreme ast magr Republicans as they

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Speaker 9: go into the next election cycle. This could very well

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Speaker 9: cost Kevin McCarthy his speakership, if not because he gets

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Speaker 9: booted out by one or two of his own members

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Speaker 9: putting his name up, but because in the next election cycle,

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Speaker 9: as Eric just described, those New Yorkers in those districts

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Speaker 9: where Biden won are going to get killed by an

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Speaker 9: amendment like we saw about abortion. You know, Abigail Spandberger.

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Speaker 9: One fifth of members in the military are women, and

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Speaker 9: then you add in the spouses, and they are denying

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Speaker 9: women healthcare that is legal in this country. That's what

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Speaker 9: they voted to do today. It's not going to pass,

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Speaker 9: it won't become law. The military would be funded. They've

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Speaker 9: just put their own seats on the line. That's all

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Speaker 9: they've done. And they've put Kevin McCarthy's head on the

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Speaker 9: chopping block for next year. So I don't see this

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Speaker 9: as a win for him. I see this as a

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Speaker 9: huge loss for him, and it brings the military into

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Speaker 9: a battle over the culture wars that they don't need

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Speaker 9: to be in at a time when we desperately need

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Speaker 9: recruits of all kinds and not to be describing the

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Speaker 9: military as somehow woke, but the greatest military in the world,

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Speaker 9: that it should be and it should be supported.

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Speaker 2: This, of course comes at the same time that Senator

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Speaker 2: Tommy Tullbervilla's were discussed on this program. Rick is blocking

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Speaker 2: promotions in the military hundreds now at this point over

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Speaker 2: that same abortion policy at the Pentagon. This is this

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Speaker 2: is coming from all sides at the DD right now.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, well, look, I mean this is sort of the

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Speaker 7: Republican backlash to the Biden agenda, right, I mean, the

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Speaker 7: Biden agenda was add a lot of adversity, you know,

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Speaker 7: add a lot of this kind of training to the

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Speaker 7: core to make them more sensitive. What does the think, Well,

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Speaker 7: I mean the brass you know, they salute the president

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Speaker 7: and say yes sir. They don't make policy.

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Speaker 9: Uh.

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Speaker 7: The Civilian Leadership Secretary of Austin has been very quiet

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Speaker 7: about this. In fact, I think one of the problems

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Speaker 7: that's been enunciated by both Tommy in the Senate and

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Speaker 7: some of the House members is that they get no

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Speaker 7: communication back on how these programs are being run. What

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Speaker 7: are they doing so in lieu of a civilian leader

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Speaker 7: from the Pentagon engaging with Capitol Hill to you know,

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Speaker 7: sort of sell the program. You're going to have this

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Speaker 7: kind of backlash, and I think that it's incumbent upon

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Speaker 7: Secretary of Austin and the Biden administration to sell some

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Speaker 7: of these ideas. It's not just operate in a vacuum.

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Speaker 7: Because the NDAA is a policy document, it's not a

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Speaker 7: funding document. That funding for the Defense Department may get

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Speaker 7: caught up in this battle we have over appropriations and

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Speaker 7: we may not get government funding. That's a different problem.

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Speaker 7: But for policy, there has to be active engagement between

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Speaker 7: the Defense Department, the Biden administration, and in the Hill

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Speaker 7: to forge these kinds of things. It's not a unilateral approach.

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Speaker 2: Spending time with Rick and Jennie and I have to

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Speaker 2: ask you both about this exchange that took place on

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Speaker 2: the floor last night that is really caught on fire

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Speaker 2: on social media and has it led to not only

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Speaker 2: a rebuke to a Republican member on the floor, but

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Speaker 2: he had to apologize now, and that would be Eli

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Speaker 2: Crane of Arizona reprimanded after he used a certain turn

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Speaker 2: of phrase in trying to make his case for ending

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Speaker 2: so called woke policy, in this case, diversity policy at

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Speaker 2: the Pentagon. This is a bit of an extended exchange

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Speaker 2: that you'll start hearing now, Eli Crane.

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Speaker 10: My amendment has nothing to do with whether or not

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Speaker 10: colored people or black people or anybody can serve. Okay,

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Speaker 10: It has nothing to do with any of that stuff.

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Speaker 10: What we want to what we want to preserve and

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Speaker 10: maintain is the fact that our military does not become

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Speaker 10: a social experiment. We want the best of the best.

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Speaker 10: We want to have standards, the guide who who's in.

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Speaker 6: What unit, what they do.

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Speaker 10: And I'm going to tell you guys right right now,

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Speaker 10: the Russians, the Chinese, the Iranians, the North Koreans, they

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Speaker 10: are not They are not doing this because they want

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Speaker 10: the strongest military possible. I hope my colleagues on the

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Speaker 10: other side can understand what we're doing. Thank you so

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Speaker 10: much to.

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Speaker 1: Have a sense of what you said.

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Speaker 2: The congress Democrat from colored people for.

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Speaker 5: What purposes generated recognition.

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Speaker 11: I'd like to be recognized. To have the words colored

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Speaker 11: people stricken from the record, I find it a fin

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Speaker 11: and very inappropriate.

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Speaker 2: She's the former head of the Congressional Black Caucus.

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Speaker 7: Is a general lady asking for unanimous consent to take

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Speaker 7: down the words.

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Speaker 11: I am asking for unanimous consent to take down the

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Speaker 11: words of referring to me or any of my colleagues

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Speaker 11: as colored people.

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Speaker 2: They did end up striking those words from the record,

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Speaker 2: even though he attempted to amend what he first said,

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Speaker 2: and the congresswoman the congressman, I should say, Eli Crane

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Speaker 2: is out with an apology of sorts. Olivia Beaver's tweeting

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Speaker 2: that Crane tells me he deeply regrets using the words

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Speaker 2: colored people on the House floor yesterday, says he misspoke

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Speaker 2: and is sorry that his words hurt people, and is

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Speaker 2: mad at himself that it has blown back on his team. Genie,

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Speaker 2: I don't get a sense, in watching that and listening

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Speaker 2: to it that he had any idea what he said wrong.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, I'm not sure he did in the moment, but

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Speaker 9: good for the congresswoman for calling it out, for being

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Speaker 9: struck from the record. It was stunning and shocking to

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Speaker 9: hear anywhere in twenty twenty three or at any time,

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Speaker 9: but particularly on the floor of the House. And you

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Speaker 9: know it's I'm glad the representative has apologized, but the

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Speaker 9: reality is he was arguing that promoting diversity makes the

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Speaker 9: US military weaker, and that you know, the words aside,

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Speaker 9: which were horrific, and he should apologize and did. How

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Speaker 9: does diversity in any institution? The US military is the

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Speaker 9: most diverse institution in our lives at this point, proudly so,

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Speaker 9: and should be. And he's arguing that taking diversity into

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Speaker 9: account makes us weaker that he needs to explain in

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Speaker 9: addition to apologizing for his very poor choice of words.

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Speaker 2: Obviously not a good look for Republicans. Rig How does

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Speaker 2: this resonate back home for him in Arizona.

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Speaker 7: Well, you know, his district is a weird district. It's

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Speaker 7: all the rural counties of Arizona except for Phoenix, so

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Speaker 7: he represents literally almost the entire state. Just you know,

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Speaker 7: the fifteen million people in Phoenix are outside his district.

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Speaker 7: So it's a it's a wacky district in the sense

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Speaker 7: that there's no urban areas in it. Two, the thing

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Speaker 7: I was most struck by is the moral equivalency of

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Speaker 7: what he's trying to achieve by saying, well, you know,

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Speaker 7: the Russians and the Chinese and the Arabians, they don't

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Speaker 7: they don't do that, but they are authoritarian ragimes. I mean,

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Speaker 7: of course they don't do it. They don't ask anybody's opinion,

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Speaker 7: so like comparing the two is insane.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, apparently he's sorry and it certainly did not

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Speaker 2: help to bring lawmakers back together.

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Speaker 5: With the paddle.

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Speaker 2: I'm Joe Matthew VISs is Bloomberg.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to The Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch the

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Speaker 1: program live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the

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Speaker 1: tune in app, Bloomberg dot Com.

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Speaker 5: And the Bloomberg Business App.

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Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our

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Speaker 1: flagship New York station, Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

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Speaker 2: We appreciate your joining us here, as spent some final

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Speaker 2: moments with Rick Davis and Genie Shanzano. Final thoughts for

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Speaker 2: the weekend is Speaker McCarthy feels pretty good about passing

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Speaker 2: the NDAA and he took a couple of minutes. Maybe

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Speaker 2: it was more like an hour in the rotunda where

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Speaker 2: they set up the velvet ropes for a selfie line.

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Speaker 5: I'd love to be you in like the simulation we did.

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Speaker 9: I was to Speaker of the House aweso.

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Speaker 5: And didn't take you fifteen rounds to wind though.

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Speaker 2: No it didn't only you the speaker talking with a

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Speaker 2: couple of young ladies there who had the opportunity to

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Speaker 2: take a selfie with the speaker. Rick Davis and Genie

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Speaker 2: Shanzano back with us here. Is is this a first

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Speaker 2: for the house? Is this a good look for the speaker?

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Speaker 7: Rick Well, I definitely a first by my estimation, at

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Speaker 7: least without a cardboard cutout, actually being the.

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Speaker 2: Speaker kind of looked like he was one. Actually at

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Speaker 2: that point, Genie, is this about connecting We always calls

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Speaker 2: it the people's houses connecting with people here at least

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Speaker 2: he is.

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Speaker 9: And I seldom praise Kevin McCarthy, but good for him

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Speaker 9: and for that young woman. I do a lot of

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Speaker 9: simulations with students. This is an amazing thing to do.

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Speaker 9: What what's the simulation, like, Joe, you're gonna come in,

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Speaker 9: We'll give you a role. It's a crisis. You got

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Speaker 9: to resolve it. And look at this young lady. She

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Speaker 9: got elected on less than what fifteen ballots?

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Speaker 2: She said, Yeah, that's pretty incredible. You do simulations like

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Speaker 2: that when when you're running campaigns, right, No, okay, you

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Speaker 2: do the real thing. It's a little bit different, speaker

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Speaker 2: McCarthy if you rewind Rick Davis not really even that

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Speaker 2: long ago, following those fifteen rounds, the whole conversation was

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Speaker 2: about motion to vacaid is going to get fired any

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Speaker 2: danaw Where does he stand at this point?

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Speaker 7: Look, I mean, you know, as long as he keeps

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Speaker 7: cowtowing to the Freedom Caucus, which he just finished doing

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Speaker 7: before he got his self he's done, yeah, then he's

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Speaker 7: probably not going to get attacked for that. But the

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Speaker 7: reality is, the minute he shows any courage and says

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Speaker 7: no to these guys, he's gonna be under the gun.

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Speaker 7: So I don't know, it'll be interesting to see if

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Speaker 7: he makes it. You know, he'll make it through the

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Speaker 7: the summer because they go on recess soon. But sure,

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Speaker 7: you know, can he make it through the.

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Speaker 2: Year the budget battled, especially still he didn't say no

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Speaker 2: about the NDAA. Then again, he got four Democrats to

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Speaker 2: vote with him. Genie Shanzano and Rick Davis. Great conversation

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Speaker 2: as ever here on the fastest show in politics.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to The Bloomberg sound On podcast. Catch us

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Speaker 1: live weekdays at one eastern.

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Speaker 5: On Bloomberg dot Com.

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Speaker 1: The iHeartRadio app and the Bloomberg Business app or listen

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Speaker 1: on demand wherever you get your podcast.

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Speaker 2: Looks like a pretty big haul. Even Rick Davis was

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Speaker 2: impressed last hour. President Biden seventy two million dollars in

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Speaker 2: the second quarter, allaying the fears as I read on

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Speaker 2: the terminal of some big donors that the campaign was

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Speaker 2: off to a slow start. It's been quiet, maybe intentionally here,

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Speaker 2: and of course he's working with a Democratic national committee

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Speaker 2: in state parties. The campaign reported seventy seven million dollars

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Speaker 2: cash on hand, which it says represents the highest total

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Speaker 2: of mass by a Democrat at any comparable point in history.

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Speaker 1: Is that true?

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Speaker 2: Either way, he doesn't need to blow a bunch of

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Speaker 2: on the primaries, and that's why this is even more powerful,

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Speaker 2: knowing that he's looking ahead to the general election. And

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Speaker 2: you put it in comparison here to what Donald Trump pulled,

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Speaker 2: it's more than twice, and people were pretty impressed with

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Speaker 2: that more than thirty million dollar hole by Donald Trump.

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Speaker 2: We're joined here in Washington by Ryan teak Back with

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Speaker 2: Bloomberg Politics reporter who's got his eyes on everything here

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Speaker 2: on the campaign trail, and obviously the Biden campaign, Ryan,

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Speaker 2: it's great to see is one that we don't talk

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Speaker 2: a lot about because he's traveling the world as the

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Speaker 2: president of the United.

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Speaker 12: States, right I mean, everything he does right now is

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Speaker 12: both as president and as candidate. But you know, you

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Speaker 12: feel kind of cheesy being like, oh, well, how does

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Speaker 12: whatever's going on with NATO apply to his campaign? So

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Speaker 12: we cover it as you know, he's the president and

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Speaker 12: they think we should. But he had a very good week,

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Speaker 12: and it kind of a little prematurely. This is the

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Speaker 12: sort of thing that you do as inner second term

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Speaker 12: as president, where you start going overseas and shaking world

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Speaker 12: leader's hands because there's not much much for you to

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Speaker 12: do in Congress anymore. So he's hitting that phase a

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Speaker 12: little bit early. But but he had a good week.

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Speaker 12: He gave a big speech and you know a lot

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Speaker 12: of people turned out for him and Vilainius. And then

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Speaker 12: these fundraising numbers are just incredible.

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Speaker 2: And an an impressive number of smaller donations, which was

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Speaker 2: the key to Barack Obama's success and even has been

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Speaker 2: Donald Trump. His average was thirty four dollars and twenty cents.

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Speaker 2: I believe on his thirty five million dollar haul. Does

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Speaker 2: it lead us to come to any conclusions knowing that

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Speaker 2: sometimes money can tell you more than polling. At this

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Speaker 2: state of the game.

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Speaker 12: You know, I think that the polling still shows you

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Speaker 12: that people are not like in love with Joe Biden.

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Speaker 12: These are not the Obama people. Man, they just love

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Speaker 12: that guy and they were so excited for that guy,

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Speaker 12: and nobody is like that excited about Biden. So I

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Speaker 12: think you're seeing two things, and one is for big

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Speaker 12: money donors that this is just putting down a marker

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Speaker 12: on thinking that Biden's going to win a second term,

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Speaker 12: and money is a way of ensuring that your email

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Speaker 12: gets responded to. So he's doing well on that front

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Speaker 12: because I think people are looking at the field and

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Speaker 12: thinking that his chances are decent right now. On the

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Speaker 12: small dollar donors, I think it's probably a little bit

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Speaker 12: more comparable to what you saw right after Trump was elected,

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Speaker 12: when suddenly like the ACLU was just raking in money.

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Speaker 12: It's not because people were suddenly waking up and going, man,

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Speaker 12: I just love the ACLU and everything that they do.

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Speaker 12: It's because they were looking for an outlet to express

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Speaker 12: their displeasure at what was going on the other side.

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Speaker 12: Trump has been in the news constantly. He's in He's

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Speaker 12: sometimes on my TV more than Biden, and not for

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Speaker 12: positive things, not for policy proposals or things that he's saying,

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Speaker 12: but for indictments and you know, his lashing out over

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Speaker 12: indictments and things like that. So I think that that

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Speaker 12: maybe driving some of the small dollar donors to sort

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Speaker 12: of who are looking for an outlet to just kind

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Speaker 12: of say not this make a statement.

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Speaker 2: There was a lot of concern around the Biden camp

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Speaker 2: following the Supreme Court ruling on student loan debt forgiveness

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Speaker 2: student debt forgiveness, and some thought, geez, you know, maybe

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Speaker 2: this mobilizes voters the way the Dobbs decision did. But

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Speaker 2: at the same time, Democrats were angry at the president

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Speaker 2: for not finding a way to get it done. And

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Speaker 2: you're sharing a byline an important story about that. Here

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Speaker 2: the administration to forgive thirty nine billion dollars in student debt.

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Speaker 2: This is a different wrinkle on what we had before.

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Speaker 12: Well, maybe that'll free up some money in their budget

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Speaker 12: for monthly donations to Biden. The problem with this particular one,

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Speaker 12: so there's two paths really for Biden to do some

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Speaker 12: student debt forgiveness, and one is basically to try again

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Speaker 12: at what he did with the four hundred billion dollar

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Speaker 12: plan that the Supreme Court turned down, but using a

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Speaker 12: different rationale, and that's essentially daring the Supreme Court like, Kay,

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Speaker 12: you didn't like the rationale for what I did, so

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Speaker 12: I'm going to do it with a different rationale. And

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Speaker 12: if you tear that one down, then it's obvious that

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Speaker 12: you just are trying to stop me from doing something.

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Speaker 12: It's also probably on more solid legal footing than the

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Speaker 12: other plan, but takes a little bit longer to implement,

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Speaker 12: so he's not going to get the immediate reward from

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Speaker 12: it by doing it that way. At the same time,

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Speaker 12: the administration has looked at basically every other program that

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Speaker 12: exists to give some relief to student debt and said,

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Speaker 12: is there a way we can juice this up? And

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00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:26,280
Speaker 12: that's what they're doing here. They're basically taking a program

439
00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:29,120
Speaker 12: where people who have been paying on a student loan

440
00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:33,000
Speaker 12: for like twenty years and you know, still owe money

441
00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:37,520
Speaker 12: can get relief. And they were basically just saying, we're

442
00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:39,639
Speaker 12: going to count some more payments that you may have

443
00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:42,679
Speaker 12: made during the twenty years to get more people to

444
00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:45,680
Speaker 12: the twenty year mark and forgive their debt. The problem

445
00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:48,080
Speaker 12: for Biden is that the people who are the most

446
00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:51,920
Speaker 12: that he really needs to win over younger voters. These

447
00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:55,600
Speaker 12: people who have been paying for twenty years are definitionally

448
00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:58,160
Speaker 12: not younger. And my apologies to all of you who

449
00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:02,040
Speaker 12: are turning forty two right now, but yeah, this isn't

450
00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:04,880
Speaker 12: the group that he really most needs to win over.

451
00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:07,320
Speaker 12: But it is a group of people who are distressed.

452
00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:09,600
Speaker 12: And this is a chunk of change about a tenth

453
00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:12,080
Speaker 12: of what the other program would have done. It's a

454
00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:15,800
Speaker 12: chunk of change that frees some money up in people's budgets,

455
00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:18,760
Speaker 12: and and it's a tangible win, which is he's doing

456
00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:22,040
Speaker 12: a lot of that. He's almost like running as like

457
00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:25,879
Speaker 12: the points guy, you know, like the American Express card

458
00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:28,080
Speaker 12: that you get some cash back. I mean, he's he's

459
00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:31,399
Speaker 12: putting money in your wallet with the student debt forgiveness.

460
00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:34,000
Speaker 12: He's got these other plans on, like junk fees that.

461
00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:37,320
Speaker 2: Yes, resorts charge a couple dollars couple.

462
00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:42,400
Speaker 12: Yeah, I mean they're they're not big things. But you know,

463
00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:45,880
Speaker 12: there's a theory in presidential politics that you can win

464
00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:48,439
Speaker 12: by putting points on the board. And I think you

465
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:51,679
Speaker 12: saw this in the Clinton re election campaign where he

466
00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:54,640
Speaker 12: was talking about putting more cops on the streets and

467
00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:58,159
Speaker 12: you know, midnight basketball and the v chip. We were

468
00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:01,679
Speaker 12: gonna make it so that there was less offensive stuff

469
00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:04,160
Speaker 12: on TVs. That clearly didn't work.

470
00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:08,000
Speaker 2: But you know, introducing the Internet, you.

471
00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:10,480
Speaker 12: Can do these little small things and hope that people

472
00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:13,800
Speaker 12: sort of notice them, and even though they're not huge,

473
00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:16,119
Speaker 12: they start to add up and you start to feel like,

474
00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:17,600
Speaker 12: this is a guy who's on my side.

475
00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:21,160
Speaker 2: The numbers in your story about the student debt tell

476
00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:25,480
Speaker 2: their own story, because I couldn't have imagined that eight

477
00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:30,080
Speaker 2: hundred and four thousand borrowers have been making payments for

478
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:35,040
Speaker 2: twenty to twenty five years. That really illustrates the issue

479
00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:36,600
Speaker 2: here actually for a lot of people might not be

480
00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:37,200
Speaker 2: aware of that.

481
00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:41,160
Speaker 12: I mean some of these loans. There was a recent

482
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:44,240
Speaker 12: analysis in the New York Times and not to you know,

483
00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:47,639
Speaker 12: talk about a competitor, but very good analysis that basically

484
00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:51,280
Speaker 12: looked at six loans and said these there was no

485
00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:53,879
Speaker 12: way these were ever going to be paid back. The

486
00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:56,359
Speaker 12: problem that you ran into with some of these loans

487
00:24:56,359 --> 00:25:00,200
Speaker 12: of the way they were structured, is that you aren'tn't

488
00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:04,120
Speaker 12: you aren't keeping up. The principle isn't getting paid down.

489
00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:06,720
Speaker 12: And so some people are ending up owing more than

490
00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:10,480
Speaker 12: they just are. And and if you you know, the

491
00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:12,960
Speaker 12: promise of this always was if you go to college,

492
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:16,760
Speaker 12: you'll earn more money. And that's true for most people,

493
00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:18,679
Speaker 12: but for a lot of people it's not. And so

494
00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:20,760
Speaker 12: what happens if you take out these loans. You did

495
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:23,359
Speaker 12: what you were told you you know, and then but

496
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:26,959
Speaker 12: you didn't necessarily see that increase in your wages from

497
00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:30,960
Speaker 12: going to college. It wasn't necessarily a bad decision for

498
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:33,960
Speaker 12: you to go to college, but it financially you're not

499
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:35,160
Speaker 12: able to pay those loans.

500
00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:35,520
Speaker 5: Down fast enough.

501
00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:38,480
Speaker 2: Well, we all remember, famously, right Barack Obama and Michelle Obama

502
00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:41,240
Speaker 2: were still paying their student loans when they got to

503
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:43,080
Speaker 2: the White House. They didn't pay them off.

504
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:44,960
Speaker 12: Well, you know, if you want to pay your student

505
00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:46,320
Speaker 12: loans off, then just become president.

506
00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:46,920
Speaker 5: That's correct.

507
00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:49,399
Speaker 12: It does help, very viable program, but a couple of books,

508
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:50,879
Speaker 12: one person every four years.

509
00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:54,639
Speaker 2: So you know, Joe Biden says, don't compare me to

510
00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:58,560
Speaker 2: the almighty, compare me to the alternative. Do these numbers

511
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:02,440
Speaker 2: change when it's an actual to head he's got thirty nine.

512
00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:05,760
Speaker 2: Depending on the poll you're looking at. Is it different

513
00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:06,920
Speaker 2: when it's not hypothetical.

514
00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:11,000
Speaker 12: I mean, I definitely there's a lot of polls right

515
00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:15,080
Speaker 12: now that show a very close race between Trump and Biden.

516
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:19,560
Speaker 12: I think those are very interesting to pay closs attention to.

517
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:25,080
Speaker 12: But they're also still hypothetical, right, I mean, it's a

518
00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:27,680
Speaker 12: lot of times people and asked a hypothetical question will

519
00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:29,880
Speaker 12: answer kind of the same way that a politician would,

520
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:33,200
Speaker 12: which is different when Yeah, I think if you really

521
00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:36,560
Speaker 12: get down to it, you know, and everyone's attention is

522
00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:40,360
Speaker 12: focused on whatever it is that Trump, you know, if

523
00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:43,560
Speaker 12: he's the nominee, whatever arguments it was that he made

524
00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:47,199
Speaker 12: to get that nomination, whatever he chooses to say in

525
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:50,040
Speaker 12: his convention speech, or you know whatever, we're the winning

526
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:54,920
Speaker 12: issues for him, those will sort of define, you know,

527
00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:58,080
Speaker 12: what his campaign is about to a lot of people

528
00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:02,320
Speaker 12: who probably have contradictory thoughts about Trump at times, which

529
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:06,520
Speaker 12: I think the polling can't quite capture. So we'll see.

530
00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:10,960
Speaker 12: Also keep in mind that a lot of his legal problems,

531
00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:13,159
Speaker 12: you know, are going to come to a head in

532
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:16,240
Speaker 12: the midst of all of this, like next summer unless

533
00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:19,520
Speaker 12: he gets a lot of lucky breaks, at least one even.

534
00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:22,600
Speaker 2: This summer with Fulton County. Potentially it s we've got

535
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:24,040
Speaker 2: a long way to go here.

536
00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:26,120
Speaker 12: Yeah, but those could be coming to a head right

537
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:28,160
Speaker 12: in the middle of the time when he's being defined

538
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:30,720
Speaker 12: as a general election campaign candidate next year.

539
00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:32,560
Speaker 2: I appreciate your coming in. I love talking to Ryan's

540
00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:35,080
Speaker 2: seak back with Don't Be a Stranger. Find him on

541
00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:38,280
Speaker 2: the terminal Bloomberg Politics reporter Ryan teak Back with here

542
00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:39,720
Speaker 2: in Washington, I'm Joe Matthews.

543
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 1: You're listening to The Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch the

544
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:47,960
Speaker 1: program live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the

545
00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:50,160
Speaker 1: tune in app, Bloomberg dot Com, and the.

546
00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:51,359
Speaker 5: Bloomberg Business App.

547
00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:54,359
Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our

548
00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:58,879
Speaker 1: flagship New York station. Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

549
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:03,159
Speaker 2: You know it's going to be interesting when Congresswoman Katie

550
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:07,360
Speaker 2: Porter pulls out the whiteboard in a congressional hearing, as

551
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:10,520
Speaker 2: the Democrat from California did yesterday in a House Oversight

552
00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:15,879
Speaker 2: and Accountability Subcommittee hearing on financial waste in the Department

553
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:20,280
Speaker 2: of Defense. The witnesses were officials from the DoD, the

554
00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:23,960
Speaker 2: Pentagon's Office of Inspector General in the US Government Accountability Office.

555
00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:27,679
Speaker 2: Congresswoman Porter pulls out the whiteboard and it looks like

556
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:30,199
Speaker 2: something from Jeopardy. She wanted to play a game, so

557
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:34,320
Speaker 2: let's do it right now. The game she designed was

558
00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:40,640
Speaker 2: called jepard d D. Get it jeopardy for the Department

559
00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:47,120
Speaker 2: of Defense. On JEPARDD, we have categories like waste, missing guardrails,

560
00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:54,320
Speaker 2: and enablers. Congresswoman, let's set it up. Let's get started.

561
00:28:54,360 --> 00:29:01,400
Speaker 13: Mister Tanaglia, enablers for one hundred? Okay, cident who called

562
00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:06,120
Speaker 13: how much we spend on defense crazy? But let defense

563
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:11,080
Speaker 13: spending grow by over one hundred billion in one term.

564
00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:12,240
Speaker 5: I don't know the answer to that.

565
00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:16,200
Speaker 13: Well, no, really, come on, you don't know who called

566
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:17,760
Speaker 13: the defense budget crazy?

567
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:18,600
Speaker 5: No?

568
00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:23,680
Speaker 13: Who is Donald Trump? Mister Mansfield?

569
00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:26,240
Speaker 5: Know that one? Enablers for two.

570
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:30,160
Speaker 13: Hundred, enablers for two hundred, A member of Senate leadership

571
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:33,480
Speaker 13: who recently said funding the Pentagon at eight hundred and

572
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:39,400
Speaker 13: eighty six billion dollars would mean defense is radically underfunded.

573
00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:43,360
Speaker 2: Anybody, I don't know the answer.

574
00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:49,280
Speaker 13: Who is Mitch McConnell. He knew that, mister conn the

575
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:51,520
Speaker 13: really the You can easily be the winner here.

576
00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:55,440
Speaker 1: I'll take waste for three hundred.

577
00:29:55,400 --> 00:30:00,240
Speaker 13: Great choice, waste for three hundred ineffective DoD asset that

578
00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:03,840
Speaker 13: cost about six hundred million to build and are now

579
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:09,320
Speaker 13: being decommissioned before the end of their useful life.

580
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:11,680
Speaker 1: Hey buddy, I'm drawing a blank there.

581
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:12,240
Speaker 5: I'm sorry.

582
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:18,120
Speaker 13: What are littoral combat ships? You're familiar with this program?

583
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:18,840
Speaker 1: This one on?

584
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:22,640
Speaker 2: Can you imagine being one of officials from the government

585
00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:29,480
Speaker 2: brought to Capitol Hill to testify in this incredible environment

586
00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:33,280
Speaker 2: here this is your government at work. Everybody, we do

587
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 2: this every day on Capitol Hill. With regard to Congressman

588
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 2: Katie Porter of California, we thank you, knowing that we

589
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:48,560
Speaker 2: will have a new champion someday. Thanks for listening to

590
00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:50,920
Speaker 2: the Sound On podcast. Make sure to subscribe if you

591
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:53,840
Speaker 2: haven't already, at Apple, Spotify, and anywhere else you get

592
00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:56,880
Speaker 2: your podcasts, and you can find us live every weekday

593
00:30:56,920 --> 00:31:00,600
Speaker 2: from Washington, DC at one pm Eastern time. Bird dot

594
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:00,840
Speaker 2: Com