WEBVTT - Why Jony Ive Left Apple 0:00:04.400 --> 0:00:07.800 Welcome to tech Stuff, a production from I Heart Radio. 0:00:11.760 --> 0:00:13.960 Hey there, and welcome to tech Stuff. I'm your host, 0:00:14.080 --> 0:00:16.920 Jonathan Strickland. I'm an executive producer with I Heart Radio. 0:00:16.960 --> 0:00:19.279 And how the tech are you. We are going to 0:00:19.320 --> 0:00:24.360 conclude our episodes about Johnny Ivan his time at Apple 0:00:24.480 --> 0:00:28.960 is Influence at Apple. And in case you have not 0:00:29.040 --> 0:00:33.160 heard the other episodes, three episodes of published before this one, UH, 0:00:33.440 --> 0:00:35.640 so you can go and listen to those before you 0:00:35.640 --> 0:00:38.720 get to that this one, because otherwise, I mean, you're 0:00:38.760 --> 0:00:41.559 you're gonna be This isn't in medias race. This is 0:00:41.960 --> 0:00:45.400 an indus race at this point, which is I know, 0:00:45.720 --> 0:00:48.480 not real. But let's let's pick up where we left 0:00:48.520 --> 0:00:52.600 off in the last episode. So I talked about how 0:00:53.600 --> 0:00:57.320 you know, Johnny Ivan, Steve Jobs had really done a lot, 0:00:57.360 --> 0:01:00.800 along with lots of other people at Apple to turn 0:01:00.880 --> 0:01:05.360 the company around, to really put it into the limelight 0:01:05.560 --> 0:01:09.800 for the mainstream, which Apple really had not been there 0:01:09.920 --> 0:01:15.399 since arguably the late seventies early eighties. Because the the 0:01:15.440 --> 0:01:19.600 IBM PC and the Compatibles and all the Windows PCs 0:01:19.640 --> 0:01:26.040 that followed those became the dominant machines uh in the market, 0:01:26.280 --> 0:01:29.920 both in business and in personal use. Apple had kind 0:01:29.920 --> 0:01:32.760 of carved out a niche in the education sector and 0:01:32.880 --> 0:01:38.480 had a devoted following among the Apple faithful, but outside 0:01:38.480 --> 0:01:40.640 of that they had not made much impact. Well. That 0:01:40.720 --> 0:01:44.000 all changed with the introduction of of devices like the 0:01:44.040 --> 0:01:48.400 iPod and the iPhone. Suddenly Apple was making a much 0:01:48.480 --> 0:01:53.240 bigger impact in the mainstream public. Well. Something that was 0:01:53.280 --> 0:01:57.320 going on around that same time was tragically the the 0:01:57.360 --> 0:02:00.880 declining health of Steve Jobs, one of the founders of 0:02:00.920 --> 0:02:05.040 the company. Um In two thousand nine he would go 0:02:05.080 --> 0:02:08.800 on medical leave. So he had been diagnosed with pancreatic 0:02:08.840 --> 0:02:13.360 cancer in two thousand three and had undergone surgery, but 0:02:13.440 --> 0:02:19.280 over time his health was undeniably getting worse. Uh. In fact, 0:02:19.280 --> 0:02:22.560 people were commenting on it all the time because he 0:02:22.800 --> 0:02:26.320 was a very public figure. He would appear at events 0:02:26.320 --> 0:02:31.640 like Macworld in order to announce new products, and whenever 0:02:31.639 --> 0:02:34.480 he was taking the stage, people would comment on his appearance. 0:02:35.240 --> 0:02:38.360 So in two thousand nine Steve Jobs went on medical leave. 0:02:38.639 --> 0:02:41.160 He had sat out the Macworld presentation that year. I 0:02:41.200 --> 0:02:44.960 believe Phil Schiller took his place. Phil Schiller head of 0:02:45.000 --> 0:02:47.799 marketing over at Apple at that point, and that was 0:02:47.919 --> 0:02:50.480 raising a lot of concern. There were a lot of rumors, 0:02:50.520 --> 0:02:53.960 a lot of people speculating that Steve Jobs would not 0:02:54.160 --> 0:02:56.600 long be in the role of CEO. At that point 0:02:56.680 --> 0:02:58.799 he would actually stay on for a couple more years, 0:02:59.600 --> 0:03:02.799 so go on medically really heightened concerns, and Jobs would 0:03:02.840 --> 0:03:07.720 secretly traveled to Tennessee and there he had a major operation, 0:03:07.840 --> 0:03:11.160 a liver transplant. The Wall Street Journal found out two 0:03:11.160 --> 0:03:13.880 months after the operation actually took place and published an 0:03:13.919 --> 0:03:17.320 article about it. You know, obviously Steve Jobs being a 0:03:18.480 --> 0:03:20.760 just despite the fact that he would publicly appear at 0:03:20.800 --> 0:03:22.840 these events, would be the sort of the face of Apple. 0:03:22.880 --> 0:03:25.440 He was a very private person, so this was a 0:03:25.480 --> 0:03:28.600 real issue. And plus there were questions then about well, 0:03:28.639 --> 0:03:33.480 you haven't disclosed this to shareholders at your investors who 0:03:33.880 --> 0:03:37.680 might find this information important based upon, you know, the 0:03:37.720 --> 0:03:41.000 money that they've invested in the company, which gets into 0:03:41.000 --> 0:03:43.640 a really complicated place, right like where do you balance 0:03:43.720 --> 0:03:49.640 between personal privacy and information that is relevant to the 0:03:49.680 --> 0:03:52.480 health of a company. And when it came to Apple, 0:03:53.320 --> 0:03:57.120 so many people associated Steve Jobs with Apple that they 0:03:57.160 --> 0:03:59.520 almost treated it like they were one the same, Like 0:03:59.560 --> 0:04:01.600 the man the company were the same thing, which is 0:04:02.280 --> 0:04:04.320 a ludicrous thing to do, but a lot of people 0:04:04.640 --> 0:04:06.920 did it, and it was because Steve Jobs had really 0:04:07.000 --> 0:04:09.360 kind of created the cult of personality around him and 0:04:09.400 --> 0:04:14.120 around the company. Well obviously the people at Apple were 0:04:14.160 --> 0:04:18.120 really concerned about this, including his close friends, which Johnny 0:04:18.160 --> 0:04:21.080 I've was one of those. Johnny I've being the lead 0:04:21.120 --> 0:04:27.440 of industrial design, design had become the prime factor that 0:04:27.560 --> 0:04:32.000 determined the direction of products, and then the operations side 0:04:32.000 --> 0:04:37.440 of the company enabled design. Another person very close to 0:04:38.160 --> 0:04:41.760 Steve Jobs was Tim Cook, the chief operating officer. Now, 0:04:41.839 --> 0:04:44.440 Tim Cook had come over to Apple and had really 0:04:44.480 --> 0:04:47.800 started to help on the financial side and was really 0:04:47.880 --> 0:04:54.000 amazing at at his job, and Tim Cook felt, you know, 0:04:54.600 --> 0:04:57.240 very close to Steve Jobs as well. So both men 0:04:57.279 --> 0:05:01.120 were They considered Steve Job to be not just the 0:05:01.120 --> 0:05:03.560 the co founder of Apple and their their CEO, but 0:05:03.800 --> 0:05:09.040 a friend. So Jobs would actually come back to Apple. 0:05:09.400 --> 0:05:12.640 He was recovered a bit and he came back from 0:05:12.640 --> 0:05:15.320 medical leave and he did lead the company for a 0:05:15.320 --> 0:05:19.360 couple more years. In January two thou eleven, he took 0:05:19.400 --> 0:05:22.440 medical leave from the company again, but he stayed on 0:05:22.560 --> 0:05:26.200 as CEO for several more months. He didn't step down 0:05:26.320 --> 0:05:30.720 from his position until August of two thousand eleven. That's 0:05:30.720 --> 0:05:33.599 when he did step down as CEO. He named Tim 0:05:33.680 --> 0:05:38.880 Cook as his successor, and he would pass away on 0:05:38.920 --> 0:05:43.480 October five, two thousand eleven, a day that was monumental 0:05:43.720 --> 0:05:49.120 in the tech sector. Every technology journal, every technology podcast, 0:05:49.960 --> 0:05:54.320 everyone acknowledged his passing, uh and the impact he had 0:05:54.360 --> 0:05:57.440 on the industry as a whole. And meanwhile, at Apple, 0:05:57.880 --> 0:06:01.560 pretty much everybody was devastated by this news. Steve Jobs 0:06:01.600 --> 0:06:05.440 had kind of a rough reputation, Like he was known 0:06:05.480 --> 0:06:09.479 as being very demanding, He had extremely high standards, and 0:06:09.480 --> 0:06:13.040 he was not shy about voicing his opinion if he 0:06:13.120 --> 0:06:15.560 felt those standards had not been met. Uh. You know, 0:06:15.640 --> 0:06:19.440 I mentioned in a previous episode that Steve Jobs would 0:06:19.920 --> 0:06:23.720 fire people that he felt were not living up to 0:06:24.440 --> 0:06:27.360 what Apple is supposed to be, and that some folks 0:06:27.360 --> 0:06:31.080 would even refer to the experience of getting fired as 0:06:31.120 --> 0:06:36.880 getting jobs. Um, especially after Jobs first returned to Apple 0:06:36.960 --> 0:06:40.039 and did a massive amount of layoffs of you know, 0:06:40.120 --> 0:06:45.159 like middle management at the company. Well, his closest friends 0:06:45.160 --> 0:06:48.760 had been visiting with him on occasion while he was 0:06:49.000 --> 0:06:51.920 you know, really in decline, and of course they had 0:06:51.920 --> 0:06:54.560 a better idea of what was going on than most 0:06:54.600 --> 0:06:57.560 other people were, but it was no easier for them, 0:06:58.040 --> 0:07:00.400 and Johnny I've was one of the a and Tim 0:07:00.440 --> 0:07:03.040 Cook was another. They both lost a dear friend as 0:07:03.040 --> 0:07:05.880 well as a fierce advocate for their work, you know, 0:07:05.960 --> 0:07:09.320 and in Johnny i've's case, it was the best advocate 0:07:09.400 --> 0:07:13.240 you could have for the importance of industrial design. Steve 0:07:13.360 --> 0:07:17.760 Jobs and Johnny I've together were able to elevate industrial 0:07:17.880 --> 0:07:23.040 design to the most important aspect of a product. And 0:07:23.040 --> 0:07:26.840 in Johnny i've's mind, that was what was right, that 0:07:27.000 --> 0:07:33.400 industrial design should be the key element, and meant that 0:07:33.440 --> 0:07:36.200 he got to design things and have them be built 0:07:36.280 --> 0:07:39.960 to his specifications, to the point where he was given 0:07:40.000 --> 0:07:44.480 incredible amounts of autonomy to seek out the right materials 0:07:44.520 --> 0:07:48.200 and the right manufacturing processes. Like Johnny I've had a 0:07:48.240 --> 0:07:52.720 reputation for just as exacting standards as Steve Jobs. Like 0:07:53.040 --> 0:07:57.200 he would. He would scour the world to find the 0:07:57.320 --> 0:08:00.960 right stuff and the right processes to create why he 0:08:01.040 --> 0:08:03.960 had envisioned, and if it was even a little off 0:08:04.240 --> 0:08:08.080 of what he wanted, he would keep looking. So things 0:08:08.080 --> 0:08:11.960 would change an apple quite a bit over the following decade. Obviously, 0:08:12.000 --> 0:08:15.360 I mean the company lost its co founder, it's CEO, 0:08:16.160 --> 0:08:20.280 it's vision, some would argue it's heart, and a lot 0:08:20.320 --> 0:08:23.000 of the changes that would follow. We're due to the 0:08:23.040 --> 0:08:28.040 fundamental differences between Steve Jobs and Tim Cook. Cook, again, 0:08:28.120 --> 0:08:32.080 he had been the chief operating officer, is absolutely brilliant 0:08:32.200 --> 0:08:35.160 when it comes to ways to maximize profits and to 0:08:35.520 --> 0:08:41.000 maximize the corporate value of Apple. Like Jobs, he's not 0:08:41.080 --> 0:08:44.320 afraid to take risks or make choices that require, you know, 0:08:44.360 --> 0:08:48.040 a greater expense if he believes in the purpose. Like 0:08:48.200 --> 0:08:52.760 Cook did sign off on some pretty massive expenses so far, 0:08:52.800 --> 0:08:55.120 and I'm sure he will continue to do so. So 0:08:55.200 --> 0:08:58.920 it's not like Cook is you know, stingy on spending 0:08:59.360 --> 0:09:02.720 and just one to you know, squeeze out every dime 0:09:02.800 --> 0:09:05.200 to get as much out of it as possible. That's 0:09:05.200 --> 0:09:09.320 not the case. However, he did come to his job 0:09:09.360 --> 0:09:12.640 with a different perspective on industrial design. That was not 0:09:13.120 --> 0:09:16.040 that was not in his his you know, priority list, 0:09:16.080 --> 0:09:19.360 That was not top of mind for Tim Cook. It 0:09:19.480 --> 0:09:23.920 was not something that he particularly had an affinity for. 0:09:24.040 --> 0:09:27.440 He could appreciate it, but that wasn't again his passion. 0:09:27.559 --> 0:09:31.760 So his leadership style was very different from Steve Jobs. Now. 0:09:31.760 --> 0:09:35.440 It also didn't help that the entire world's attention was 0:09:35.559 --> 0:09:38.680 on Apple. The company was at a market value of 0:09:38.720 --> 0:09:42.280 around three hundred billion dollars at the time of Steve 0:09:42.360 --> 0:09:45.400 jobs As death, which was a huge leap from the 0:09:45.480 --> 0:09:51.199 organization that had been teetering towards bankruptcy fifteen years earlier. Right, 0:09:51.320 --> 0:09:54.199 the company went from on the verge of being irrelevant 0:09:54.480 --> 0:09:57.280 to becoming a three d billion dollar company. That was 0:09:57.360 --> 0:10:00.960 when Tim Cook took over, and that meant that Apple 0:10:01.000 --> 0:10:05.080 now had a reputation as a tastemaker, as a trend setter, 0:10:05.160 --> 0:10:09.640 a major influence in computers and electronics. So it had 0:10:09.679 --> 0:10:13.840 become the company for prestige smartphones. So Android devices were 0:10:13.960 --> 0:10:17.840 at this point out selling iPhones for a while. iPhones 0:10:17.880 --> 0:10:21.760 were king because one they came out before Android did. Two, 0:10:22.360 --> 0:10:26.439 they just had a sexy kind of aspect to them 0:10:26.440 --> 0:10:30.840 that Android could not match. But Google smartphone had really 0:10:30.840 --> 0:10:34.360 taken the lead in sales earlier in two thousand eleven, 0:10:34.720 --> 0:10:37.240 and the reason for that was pretty simple. Apple was 0:10:37.320 --> 0:10:40.000 the only company making iPhones right the only way you 0:10:40.040 --> 0:10:42.959 could get an iPhone is to purchase it from Apple, 0:10:43.280 --> 0:10:45.480 or to purchase it from a carrier that in turn, 0:10:45.600 --> 0:10:49.400 was working with Apple, so an iPhone was a flagship product. 0:10:49.720 --> 0:10:53.360 But Google's Android operating system was open for all sorts 0:10:53.360 --> 0:10:57.319 of manufacturers, so there wasn't just one line of Android phones. 0:10:57.360 --> 0:11:00.520 It's not like you know, Google Phone and that's it. 0:11:01.559 --> 0:11:04.160 There were all these different manufacturers making phones that were 0:11:04.200 --> 0:11:06.920 running on Android. There were dozens of them, and that 0:11:07.000 --> 0:11:09.920 meant Android phones could cover a much wider range of 0:11:09.960 --> 0:11:14.880 the market, everything from budget smartphones to elite levels, and 0:11:15.000 --> 0:11:19.679 the feature set would vary as well, right, So that 0:11:19.720 --> 0:11:22.960 meant that there were just more Android phones out there. 0:11:23.000 --> 0:11:25.160 So it made sense that they were out selling the 0:11:25.200 --> 0:11:27.640 iPhones for you know, people who couldn't afford an iPhone, 0:11:27.679 --> 0:11:29.839 they would get an Android phone, or some people who 0:11:29.880 --> 0:11:33.600 just didn't like Apple would get an Android phone. That 0:11:33.720 --> 0:11:37.320 being said, the iPhone remained a powerful and iconic product 0:11:37.360 --> 0:11:40.600 for Apple, and people were still tuning into Apple's corporate 0:11:40.600 --> 0:11:43.320 events to see what was coming next. Like every year, 0:11:44.200 --> 0:11:47.839 people in droves were tuning in to watch a live 0:11:47.960 --> 0:11:51.960 stream of Apple's press events to find out what the 0:11:52.000 --> 0:11:54.040 next iPhone was going to be. Like, you know, and 0:11:54.320 --> 0:11:57.360 you've got to keep in mind when the iPhone first 0:11:57.360 --> 0:12:02.440 came out in America. The way that that contracts with 0:12:02.559 --> 0:12:07.199 carriers worked was that you would essentially agree to have 0:12:07.320 --> 0:12:12.000 a two year service agreement with whichever carrier. Let's let's 0:12:12.000 --> 0:12:13.840 say it's a T and T. You would agree to 0:12:13.840 --> 0:12:16.760 have a two year service with a T and T, 0:12:17.679 --> 0:12:19.680 and then at the end of those two years, you could, 0:12:19.960 --> 0:12:22.360 you know, essentially just stay on the plan, or you 0:12:22.400 --> 0:12:25.559 could renew it or whatever. And as part of that, 0:12:25.760 --> 0:12:29.360 the company would subsidize a purchase of your phone, so 0:12:29.520 --> 0:12:31.839 you would be able to get a phone for a 0:12:31.960 --> 0:12:34.520 much cheaper price, sometimes for free, depending on the phone. 0:12:35.320 --> 0:12:38.000 So you would buy an iPhone for a couple of 0:12:38.080 --> 0:12:41.920 hundred dollars because it was being subsidized by the carrier, 0:12:41.960 --> 0:12:44.080 which was going to get way more money because you were, 0:12:44.360 --> 0:12:46.240 you know, paying a monthly fee to the carrier. For 0:12:46.240 --> 0:12:49.320 two years. iPhones would come out, a new one would 0:12:49.320 --> 0:12:53.520 come out every year, so you immediately had this new 0:12:53.559 --> 0:12:57.600 phone that was attracting a very passionate base because they 0:12:57.679 --> 0:13:01.800 love the design, they loved the software, they loved everything 0:13:01.840 --> 0:13:04.240 that made it the iPhone. And you had people who 0:13:04.280 --> 0:13:07.560 are willing to buy a new iPhone even though they 0:13:07.559 --> 0:13:09.679 were still under contracts. So their contract would go over 0:13:09.760 --> 0:13:12.720 two years. A new iPhone comes out every year and 0:13:12.760 --> 0:13:15.960 people are spending huge amounts of money. It was crazy. Um. 0:13:16.000 --> 0:13:19.800 Eventually the US moved away from that model like that. 0:13:19.800 --> 0:13:22.199 That was the norm when the iPhone first came out. 0:13:22.240 --> 0:13:25.360 It is no longer the norm now. Now usually people 0:13:25.360 --> 0:13:28.520 will buy a phone for full price, uh, and they 0:13:28.520 --> 0:13:32.240 aren't aren't getting a subsidized phone from a carrier. Usually 0:13:32.360 --> 0:13:35.200 not always, but you know, that's become more common in 0:13:35.240 --> 0:13:36.800 the US, and which is kind of the way it 0:13:36.840 --> 0:13:40.880 works in the rest of the world too. Now that 0:13:41.120 --> 0:13:45.959 just speaks to the power of Apple's marketing and design 0:13:46.440 --> 0:13:50.760 that they're able to create a product that people will 0:13:50.559 --> 0:13:54.360 they'll endure extra fees in order to be part of 0:13:55.200 --> 0:13:59.760 the group that gets hold of that product phenomenal. The 0:14:00.040 --> 0:14:05.040 question was would that continue now that Steve Jobs was gone. 0:14:05.760 --> 0:14:08.360 I'll talk about that more when we come back after 0:14:08.400 --> 0:14:20.160 this break. So it was inevitable that people would start 0:14:20.160 --> 0:14:24.640 asking the question, is Apple going to survive without Steve Jobs? 0:14:24.640 --> 0:14:27.040 People have been asking that for years at that point 0:14:27.080 --> 0:14:30.680 because Steve jobs declining health was no real secret. You 0:14:30.680 --> 0:14:33.520 could see it whenever he was taking the stage, and 0:14:33.800 --> 0:14:37.680 there were tons of people who were predicting that once 0:14:37.800 --> 0:14:43.560 Jobs was gone, Apple was going to unravel and and 0:14:43.680 --> 0:14:46.800 implode because Steve Jobs it felt like he was the 0:14:46.800 --> 0:14:50.280 one guiding everything and keeping it together again. It was 0:14:50.320 --> 0:14:53.920 this cult of personality. It was also ignoring the fact 0:14:54.560 --> 0:14:57.200 that there were so many other talented people at Apple 0:14:57.480 --> 0:15:02.000 who were key in the company's success us so Johnny 0:15:02.000 --> 0:15:04.760 and I've being one of them. And you know, it 0:15:04.880 --> 0:15:06.720 kind of makes sense that people were predicting that the 0:15:06.720 --> 0:15:09.440 company was going to hit on hard times because when 0:15:09.520 --> 0:15:12.040 Jobs had been forced out of Apple or when he 0:15:12.120 --> 0:15:16.920 left Apple, depending on your point of view. Back in well, 0:15:16.920 --> 0:15:20.400 that's when Apple fell into this pattern of bad decisions 0:15:20.440 --> 0:15:24.000 that nearly brought the whole company down. But the Apple 0:15:24.040 --> 0:15:27.760 of two thousand eleven was a very different organization than 0:15:27.840 --> 0:15:31.200 the one from the eighties and nineties, and Tim Cook 0:15:31.320 --> 0:15:34.040 was the type of leader who could focus with amazing 0:15:34.120 --> 0:15:38.600 clarity on goals like increasing Apple's value, which, boy howdy 0:15:38.640 --> 0:15:40.960 did he do that. We'll talk about that more later 0:15:41.000 --> 0:15:43.480 in this episode, but let's get back to Johnny. I've 0:15:44.040 --> 0:15:48.840 Job's death hit I've very hard, But in early two 0:15:48.880 --> 0:15:52.640 thousand twelve, I was energized to work on something new 0:15:53.240 --> 0:15:56.480 Apple had acquired a company that was working on tech 0:15:56.560 --> 0:16:00.880 in the health sector. Specifically, they were developing technology that 0:16:00.920 --> 0:16:05.680 could use light to detect glucose levels in blood, which 0:16:06.160 --> 0:16:09.720 would be phenomenal for people who, for example, have diabetes 0:16:09.800 --> 0:16:13.560 to have a non invasive way to monitor their glucose levels. 0:16:13.600 --> 0:16:17.200 And I've wanted to make a wearable one that would 0:16:17.200 --> 0:16:20.720 happen to the health space, but it would also serve 0:16:20.840 --> 0:16:26.000 as a beautiful, fashionable watch. He wanted to make a 0:16:26.120 --> 0:16:28.600 smart watch that was the best of all worlds, the 0:16:28.640 --> 0:16:32.520 best in health tech, the best in time pieces, and 0:16:32.600 --> 0:16:37.480 the best in fashion. He really wanted to create something 0:16:38.040 --> 0:16:43.600 that would transcend the gadget world and enter into the 0:16:43.640 --> 0:16:47.480 world of luxury fashion. It would take two years of 0:16:47.520 --> 0:16:51.040 work to bring the Apple Watch to reality, two years 0:16:51.080 --> 0:16:55.800 of design, finding the right materials, finding the right form factor, 0:16:56.000 --> 0:17:00.200 finding the right components to all make it work proper, really, 0:17:00.360 --> 0:17:02.280 and you know, figuring out things like how do you 0:17:02.840 --> 0:17:05.920 have how do you display things on a screen that's 0:17:05.920 --> 0:17:07.639 going to be small enough to fit on a wrist. 0:17:08.600 --> 0:17:12.000 All of these were decisions that would take a couple 0:17:12.040 --> 0:17:15.760 of years to really hone in on. Not during that 0:17:15.840 --> 0:17:19.680 same time, something big happened at Apple That was both 0:17:19.720 --> 0:17:24.600 a blessing and a curse for I've so Later in 0:17:24.600 --> 0:17:29.960 two thousand twelve, under Tim Cook's watch, the company released 0:17:30.000 --> 0:17:34.400 a new iPhone which was per usual, and also during 0:17:34.400 --> 0:17:38.359 that time released Apple Maps. Now. I don't know, my 0:17:38.440 --> 0:17:41.399 little Drew gis if you remember what Apple Maps was 0:17:41.480 --> 0:17:45.760 back in the early days. But it wasn't good. It 0:17:45.840 --> 0:17:48.040 was buggy. It was something you did not want in 0:17:48.119 --> 0:17:51.760 a navigation app, right. You want to be sure that 0:17:51.800 --> 0:17:55.000 your navigation app is actually guiding you to the right place, 0:17:55.040 --> 0:17:57.240 and you couldn't be sure with that with Apple Maps. 0:17:57.240 --> 0:18:01.679 There were some notable and hilarious earl years of the app, 0:18:02.160 --> 0:18:05.360 and Apple got a lot of criticism for the rollout 0:18:05.520 --> 0:18:08.639 of this product. And just to be fair to the 0:18:08.640 --> 0:18:11.920 team that had been working on Apple Naps, they had 0:18:11.960 --> 0:18:15.119 been rushed and it was pushed out before it was 0:18:15.160 --> 0:18:18.040 really ready. They knew that they needed more time, They 0:18:18.119 --> 0:18:22.399 just didn't get it because there was this need for 0:18:22.520 --> 0:18:25.640 the app to be out there. So Apple wanted to 0:18:25.680 --> 0:18:29.960 make Scott Forstall, who was the head of the software side, 0:18:30.400 --> 0:18:34.760 to apologize for the buggy software. Now that was something 0:18:34.800 --> 0:18:39.479 the company had never done under Steve Jobs. You know, 0:18:39.520 --> 0:18:42.399 even during the whole antenna gate, which was an issue 0:18:42.480 --> 0:18:47.680 with a previous iPhone, that's and that the antenna layout 0:18:47.760 --> 0:18:51.280 within the phone, uh, began to create problems. If you 0:18:51.320 --> 0:18:54.320 were quote unquote holding the phone wrong, you were blocking 0:18:54.359 --> 0:18:58.360 the signal. There was a lot of signal dropping, and uh, 0:18:58.400 --> 0:19:00.440 you know, Steve Jobs was just saying that people were 0:19:00.440 --> 0:19:03.280 holding the phone wrong instead of saying that, you know, 0:19:03.320 --> 0:19:05.479 it was a faulty design. Johnny I was kind of 0:19:05.520 --> 0:19:08.960 similar on that too, and um, and so that was 0:19:09.040 --> 0:19:12.240 very notable. People were thinking that Apple was a brazen 0:19:12.320 --> 0:19:17.560 company for not admitting that it had failed in some way. Well, 0:19:18.600 --> 0:19:21.119 this was a very different approach. This was the boss 0:19:21.160 --> 0:19:24.240 telling Forrestall, hey, you need to sign this apology letter 0:19:24.960 --> 0:19:28.320 and you need to admit that there was fault in 0:19:28.359 --> 0:19:31.400 what we released, and Forestall refused to sign it. Now, 0:19:31.440 --> 0:19:34.840 the rumor is that that is what angered Tim Cook, 0:19:35.080 --> 0:19:38.320 who then chose to let Forrestall go to essentially fire 0:19:38.520 --> 0:19:42.240 the head of software. Now, this was a huge deal 0:19:42.400 --> 0:19:45.360 for several reasons. One is that Forrestall had previously been 0:19:45.400 --> 0:19:47.520 on a pretty short list of folks who could have 0:19:47.640 --> 0:19:51.840 succeeded Steve Jobs as CEO. People thought potentially he was 0:19:51.840 --> 0:19:54.680 going to step into that role before Jobs named Cook 0:19:54.840 --> 0:19:59.600 as his successor. Now, obviously Forrestall didn't become CEO. But 0:19:59.680 --> 0:20:02.040 another a big deal is that for Stall and I've 0:20:03.880 --> 0:20:08.080 had a fundamental disagreement when it came to design approach, 0:20:09.080 --> 0:20:13.399 specifically over skew a morphism. Skill morphism is when you 0:20:13.440 --> 0:20:17.320 make some sort of derivative of an object that retains 0:20:17.440 --> 0:20:21.600 features that were necessary in the original version of that object, 0:20:21.880 --> 0:20:25.000 but not in the derivative. I know that sounds kind 0:20:25.000 --> 0:20:27.000 of messy to to talk about, so let me give 0:20:27.000 --> 0:20:29.679 you a very simple example. So, when you're ready to 0:20:29.720 --> 0:20:32.639 throw something away, something physical, like let's say that you've 0:20:32.760 --> 0:20:34.440 got a sheet of paper that you're gonna need to 0:20:34.480 --> 0:20:36.479 throw away, you wad it up and you toss it 0:20:36.560 --> 0:20:41.399 into a trash can. So when it came time to 0:20:41.520 --> 0:20:46.720 creating a Windows icon for deleting a file, it was 0:20:46.760 --> 0:20:51.800 pretty common to represent the deleting process as an icon 0:20:51.920 --> 0:20:53.600 that looked like a little trash can, and you could 0:20:53.640 --> 0:20:56.560 just drag a file over to the trash can and 0:20:56.640 --> 0:20:59.600 let go, and it would go into the recycle bin 0:21:00.160 --> 0:21:03.360 or the trash can. Now, there's no reason to make 0:21:03.400 --> 0:21:05.520 the icon look like a trash can. Like, it doesn't 0:21:05.560 --> 0:21:07.760 have to look like that, right, because you're not actually 0:21:07.800 --> 0:21:12.240 physically tossing a digital file into the opening of the 0:21:12.560 --> 0:21:15.080 icon of this can in order to throw it away. 0:21:15.320 --> 0:21:18.840 But the combination of the familiar with the digital process 0:21:19.280 --> 0:21:22.080 is an example of skew a morphism, the idea being, oh, 0:21:22.119 --> 0:21:24.960 people know what trash cans are, that therefore they will 0:21:25.080 --> 0:21:28.359 understand that the process in order to delete a file. 0:21:29.080 --> 0:21:33.440 Johnny I did not like skew amorphism. To put it lightly, 0:21:33.640 --> 0:21:36.560 he didn't like the look of Apple's icons on the 0:21:36.560 --> 0:21:40.240 digital screens that he labored over designing. So in other words, 0:21:40.280 --> 0:21:43.480 he felt like he was putting in tons of work 0:21:43.520 --> 0:21:49.400 to create the best physical product that was showing icons 0:21:49.440 --> 0:21:56.840 and software that didn't belong on his work of art. Essentially, So, 0:21:57.680 --> 0:22:01.240 once for stall was gone, there was the opportunity that 0:22:01.800 --> 0:22:05.359 rose up, and Tim cook I saw that opportunity. He 0:22:05.400 --> 0:22:08.159 decided to put I'VE in charge of the look of 0:22:08.200 --> 0:22:11.879 Apple's software. Namely, i was put in charge of human 0:22:12.040 --> 0:22:16.320 interface stuff. So instances like the icons that appear on 0:22:16.359 --> 0:22:21.800 Apple screens that became i've's domain. In addition to industrial design. Now, 0:22:21.840 --> 0:22:25.960 while I've relished the job of making the stuff that 0:22:26.040 --> 0:22:28.720 appeared on the screens of the devices he had designed, 0:22:29.280 --> 0:22:35.000 compliment those designs, and not conflict with them. This seemingly 0:22:35.240 --> 0:22:39.119 victory that he had experienced brought with it additional responsibilities, 0:22:39.359 --> 0:22:45.600 which included lots and lots of meetings, tons of meetings, 0:22:45.640 --> 0:22:49.240 and i've's life began to consist of lots more meetings, 0:22:49.280 --> 0:22:53.880 which he found taxing and distracting. And while I've had 0:22:53.880 --> 0:22:57.119 grown accustomed to working very closely with Steve jobs Like 0:22:57.480 --> 0:23:00.639 often they would meet one on one to talk about 0:23:00.680 --> 0:23:04.720 design things, well, that wasn't Tim Cook's style. Tim Cook 0:23:04.800 --> 0:23:06.679 wasn't the type of person to take a one on 0:23:06.680 --> 0:23:09.119 one meeting with Johnny I've and spend an hour or 0:23:09.200 --> 0:23:13.920 two talking about designs. Instead, Tim Cook would organize much 0:23:14.080 --> 0:23:16.960 larger meetings and Johnny I've would be part of those. 0:23:17.960 --> 0:23:22.200 That meant that other departments would have more input into 0:23:22.320 --> 0:23:25.600 this process. So I've was no longer working directly with 0:23:25.680 --> 0:23:31.480 the CEO of Apple. He was getting suggestions and directives 0:23:31.520 --> 0:23:34.960 from other department heads. So under jobs the design team 0:23:35.000 --> 0:23:38.040 had become the most important department in the company arguably, 0:23:38.560 --> 0:23:41.119 and the operations team like I said was meant to 0:23:41.400 --> 0:23:45.119 enable the design team, but Tim Cook came from the 0:23:45.160 --> 0:23:50.520 operations side, and he flipped that relationship operations would ultimately 0:23:50.600 --> 0:23:55.240 determine which design elements could move forward in which ones wouldn't. Now, 0:23:55.280 --> 0:23:57.760 I've did throw himself into a couple of major projects 0:23:57.760 --> 0:24:00.080 that kept him busy enough to at least cope with 0:24:00.160 --> 0:24:03.200 those changes. So the Apple Watch was a huge one. 0:24:04.119 --> 0:24:09.240 I've obsessed over the materials and design with the watch. 0:24:09.720 --> 0:24:13.159 He wanted the watch to have a crown. So, in 0:24:13.320 --> 0:24:17.040 case you're not familiar with watch terminology. On on classic watches, 0:24:17.680 --> 0:24:20.040 the crown is the little button or dial that you 0:24:20.119 --> 0:24:22.440 use on the side of the watch case that lets 0:24:22.480 --> 0:24:24.720 you set the time. It's what let's you know, move 0:24:24.800 --> 0:24:28.760 the hour and minute hands around the watch face so 0:24:28.800 --> 0:24:31.000 that you get the correct time set on your watch, 0:24:31.160 --> 0:24:35.440 or in cases with spring watches, it's also how you 0:24:35.520 --> 0:24:38.919 wind the watch so that the spring can continue to 0:24:39.040 --> 0:24:44.200 operate the watches clockwork. Now, on the Apple Watch, obviously 0:24:44.960 --> 0:24:48.199 there was no need to have a crown to to 0:24:48.280 --> 0:24:50.320 do those kind of things. You could do everything by touch, 0:24:50.440 --> 0:24:53.199 but the crown was there because one it was a 0:24:53.200 --> 0:24:57.880 classic piece of of you know, watch anatomy, there's something 0:24:57.960 --> 0:25:00.960 you would expect to find on any luxury watch, but 0:25:01.040 --> 0:25:02.840