1 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:07,800 Speaker 1: Welcome to tech Stuff, a production from I Heart Radio. 2 00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:13,960 Speaker 1: Hey there, and welcome to tech Stuff. I'm your host, 3 00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:16,920 Speaker 1: Jonathan Strickland. I'm an executive producer with I Heart Radio. 4 00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:19,279 Speaker 1: And how the tech are you. We are going to 5 00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:24,360 Speaker 1: conclude our episodes about Johnny Ivan his time at Apple 6 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:28,960 Speaker 1: is Influence at Apple. And in case you have not 7 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:33,160 Speaker 1: heard the other episodes, three episodes of published before this one, UH, 8 00:00:33,440 --> 00:00:35,640 Speaker 1: so you can go and listen to those before you 9 00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:38,720 Speaker 1: get to that this one, because otherwise, I mean, you're 10 00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:41,559 Speaker 1: you're gonna be This isn't in medias race. This is 11 00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:45,400 Speaker 1: an indus race at this point, which is I know, 12 00:00:45,720 --> 00:00:48,480 Speaker 1: not real. But let's let's pick up where we left 13 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:52,600 Speaker 1: off in the last episode. So I talked about how 14 00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:57,320 Speaker 1: you know, Johnny Ivan, Steve Jobs had really done a lot, 15 00:00:57,360 --> 00:01:00,800 Speaker 1: along with lots of other people at Apple to turn 16 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:05,360 Speaker 1: the company around, to really put it into the limelight 17 00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:09,800 Speaker 1: for the mainstream, which Apple really had not been there 18 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:15,399 Speaker 1: since arguably the late seventies early eighties. Because the the 19 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:19,600 Speaker 1: IBM PC and the Compatibles and all the Windows PCs 20 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:26,040 Speaker 1: that followed those became the dominant machines uh in the market, 21 00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:29,920 Speaker 1: both in business and in personal use. Apple had kind 22 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:32,760 Speaker 1: of carved out a niche in the education sector and 23 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:38,480 Speaker 1: had a devoted following among the Apple faithful, but outside 24 00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:40,640 Speaker 1: of that they had not made much impact. Well. That 25 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:44,000 Speaker 1: all changed with the introduction of of devices like the 26 00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:48,400 Speaker 1: iPod and the iPhone. Suddenly Apple was making a much 27 00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:53,240 Speaker 1: bigger impact in the mainstream public. Well. Something that was 28 00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:57,320 Speaker 1: going on around that same time was tragically the the 29 00:01:57,360 --> 00:02:00,880 Speaker 1: declining health of Steve Jobs, one of the founders of 30 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:05,040 Speaker 1: the company. Um In two thousand nine he would go 31 00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:08,800 Speaker 1: on medical leave. So he had been diagnosed with pancreatic 32 00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:13,360 Speaker 1: cancer in two thousand three and had undergone surgery, but 33 00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:19,280 Speaker 1: over time his health was undeniably getting worse. Uh. In fact, 34 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:22,560 Speaker 1: people were commenting on it all the time because he 35 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:26,320 Speaker 1: was a very public figure. He would appear at events 36 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:31,640 Speaker 1: like Macworld in order to announce new products, and whenever 37 00:02:31,639 --> 00:02:34,480 Speaker 1: he was taking the stage, people would comment on his appearance. 38 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:38,360 Speaker 1: So in two thousand nine Steve Jobs went on medical leave. 39 00:02:38,639 --> 00:02:41,160 Speaker 1: He had sat out the Macworld presentation that year. I 40 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:44,960 Speaker 1: believe Phil Schiller took his place. Phil Schiller head of 41 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:47,799 Speaker 1: marketing over at Apple at that point, and that was 42 00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:50,480 Speaker 1: raising a lot of concern. There were a lot of rumors, 43 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:53,960 Speaker 1: a lot of people speculating that Steve Jobs would not 44 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:56,600 Speaker 1: long be in the role of CEO. At that point 45 00:02:56,680 --> 00:02:58,799 Speaker 1: he would actually stay on for a couple more years, 46 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:02,799 Speaker 1: so go on medically really heightened concerns, and Jobs would 47 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:07,720 Speaker 1: secretly traveled to Tennessee and there he had a major operation, 48 00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:11,160 Speaker 1: a liver transplant. The Wall Street Journal found out two 49 00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:13,880 Speaker 1: months after the operation actually took place and published an 50 00:03:13,919 --> 00:03:17,320 Speaker 1: article about it. You know, obviously Steve Jobs being a 51 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:20,760 Speaker 1: just despite the fact that he would publicly appear at 52 00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:22,840 Speaker 1: these events, would be the sort of the face of Apple. 53 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:25,440 Speaker 1: He was a very private person, so this was a 54 00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:28,600 Speaker 1: real issue. And plus there were questions then about well, 55 00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:33,480 Speaker 1: you haven't disclosed this to shareholders at your investors who 56 00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:37,680 Speaker 1: might find this information important based upon, you know, the 57 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:41,000 Speaker 1: money that they've invested in the company, which gets into 58 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:43,640 Speaker 1: a really complicated place, right like where do you balance 59 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:49,640 Speaker 1: between personal privacy and information that is relevant to the 60 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:52,480 Speaker 1: health of a company. And when it came to Apple, 61 00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:57,120 Speaker 1: so many people associated Steve Jobs with Apple that they 62 00:03:57,160 --> 00:03:59,520 Speaker 1: almost treated it like they were one the same, Like 63 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:01,600 Speaker 1: the man the company were the same thing, which is 64 00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:04,320 Speaker 1: a ludicrous thing to do, but a lot of people 65 00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:06,920 Speaker 1: did it, and it was because Steve Jobs had really 66 00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:09,360 Speaker 1: kind of created the cult of personality around him and 67 00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:14,120 Speaker 1: around the company. Well obviously the people at Apple were 68 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:18,120 Speaker 1: really concerned about this, including his close friends, which Johnny 69 00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 1: I've was one of those. Johnny I've being the lead 70 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:27,440 Speaker 1: of industrial design, design had become the prime factor that 71 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:32,000 Speaker 1: determined the direction of products, and then the operations side 72 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:37,440 Speaker 1: of the company enabled design. Another person very close to 73 00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:41,760 Speaker 1: Steve Jobs was Tim Cook, the chief operating officer. Now, 74 00:04:41,839 --> 00:04:44,440 Speaker 1: Tim Cook had come over to Apple and had really 75 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:47,800 Speaker 1: started to help on the financial side and was really 76 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:54,000 Speaker 1: amazing at at his job, and Tim Cook felt, you know, 77 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:57,240 Speaker 1: very close to Steve Jobs as well. So both men 78 00:04:57,279 --> 00:05:01,120 Speaker 1: were They considered Steve Job to be not just the 79 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:03,560 Speaker 1: the co founder of Apple and their their CEO, but 80 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:09,040 Speaker 1: a friend. So Jobs would actually come back to Apple. 81 00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:12,640 Speaker 1: He was recovered a bit and he came back from 82 00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:15,320 Speaker 1: medical leave and he did lead the company for a 83 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:19,360 Speaker 1: couple more years. In January two thou eleven, he took 84 00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:22,440 Speaker 1: medical leave from the company again, but he stayed on 85 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:26,200 Speaker 1: as CEO for several more months. He didn't step down 86 00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:30,720 Speaker 1: from his position until August of two thousand eleven. That's 87 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:33,599 Speaker 1: when he did step down as CEO. He named Tim 88 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:38,880 Speaker 1: Cook as his successor, and he would pass away on 89 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:43,480 Speaker 1: October five, two thousand eleven, a day that was monumental 90 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:49,120 Speaker 1: in the tech sector. Every technology journal, every technology podcast, 91 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:54,320 Speaker 1: everyone acknowledged his passing, uh and the impact he had 92 00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:57,440 Speaker 1: on the industry as a whole. And meanwhile, at Apple, 93 00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:01,560 Speaker 1: pretty much everybody was devastated by this news. Steve Jobs 94 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:05,440 Speaker 1: had kind of a rough reputation, Like he was known 95 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:09,479 Speaker 1: as being very demanding, He had extremely high standards, and 96 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:13,040 Speaker 1: he was not shy about voicing his opinion if he 97 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 1: felt those standards had not been met. Uh. You know, 98 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:19,440 Speaker 1: I mentioned in a previous episode that Steve Jobs would 99 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:23,720 Speaker 1: fire people that he felt were not living up to 100 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:27,360 Speaker 1: what Apple is supposed to be, and that some folks 101 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:31,080 Speaker 1: would even refer to the experience of getting fired as 102 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:36,880 Speaker 1: getting jobs. Um, especially after Jobs first returned to Apple 103 00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:40,039 Speaker 1: and did a massive amount of layoffs of you know, 104 00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:45,159 Speaker 1: like middle management at the company. Well, his closest friends 105 00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:48,760 Speaker 1: had been visiting with him on occasion while he was 106 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:51,920 Speaker 1: you know, really in decline, and of course they had 107 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:54,560 Speaker 1: a better idea of what was going on than most 108 00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:57,560 Speaker 1: other people were, but it was no easier for them, 109 00:06:58,040 --> 00:07:00,400 Speaker 1: and Johnny I've was one of the a and Tim 110 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:03,040 Speaker 1: Cook was another. They both lost a dear friend as 111 00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:05,880 Speaker 1: well as a fierce advocate for their work, you know, 112 00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:09,320 Speaker 1: and in Johnny i've's case, it was the best advocate 113 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:13,240 Speaker 1: you could have for the importance of industrial design. Steve 114 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:17,760 Speaker 1: Jobs and Johnny I've together were able to elevate industrial 115 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:23,040 Speaker 1: design to the most important aspect of a product. And 116 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:26,840 Speaker 1: in Johnny i've's mind, that was what was right, that 117 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:33,400 Speaker 1: industrial design should be the key element, and meant that 118 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:36,200 Speaker 1: he got to design things and have them be built 119 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:39,960 Speaker 1: to his specifications, to the point where he was given 120 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:44,480 Speaker 1: incredible amounts of autonomy to seek out the right materials 121 00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:48,200 Speaker 1: and the right manufacturing processes. Like Johnny I've had a 122 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:52,720 Speaker 1: reputation for just as exacting standards as Steve Jobs. Like 123 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:57,200 Speaker 1: he would. He would scour the world to find the 124 00:07:57,320 --> 00:08:00,960 Speaker 1: right stuff and the right processes to create why he 125 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:03,960 Speaker 1: had envisioned, and if it was even a little off 126 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:08,080 Speaker 1: of what he wanted, he would keep looking. So things 127 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:11,960 Speaker 1: would change an apple quite a bit over the following decade. Obviously, 128 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:15,360 Speaker 1: I mean the company lost its co founder, it's CEO, 129 00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:20,280 Speaker 1: it's vision, some would argue it's heart, and a lot 130 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:23,000 Speaker 1: of the changes that would follow. We're due to the 131 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:28,040 Speaker 1: fundamental differences between Steve Jobs and Tim Cook. Cook, again, 132 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:32,080 Speaker 1: he had been the chief operating officer, is absolutely brilliant 133 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:35,160 Speaker 1: when it comes to ways to maximize profits and to 134 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:41,000 Speaker 1: maximize the corporate value of Apple. Like Jobs, he's not 135 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:44,320 Speaker 1: afraid to take risks or make choices that require, you know, 136 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:48,040 Speaker 1: a greater expense if he believes in the purpose. Like 137 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:52,760 Speaker 1: Cook did sign off on some pretty massive expenses so far, 138 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:55,120 Speaker 1: and I'm sure he will continue to do so. So 139 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:58,920 Speaker 1: it's not like Cook is you know, stingy on spending 140 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:02,720 Speaker 1: and just one to you know, squeeze out every dime 141 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:05,200 Speaker 1: to get as much out of it as possible. That's 142 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:09,320 Speaker 1: not the case. However, he did come to his job 143 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:12,640 Speaker 1: with a different perspective on industrial design. That was not 144 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:16,040 Speaker 1: that was not in his his you know, priority list, 145 00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:19,360 Speaker 1: That was not top of mind for Tim Cook. It 146 00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:23,920 Speaker 1: was not something that he particularly had an affinity for. 147 00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:27,440 Speaker 1: He could appreciate it, but that wasn't again his passion. 148 00:09:27,559 --> 00:09:31,760 Speaker 1: So his leadership style was very different from Steve Jobs. Now. 149 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:35,440 Speaker 1: It also didn't help that the entire world's attention was 150 00:09:35,559 --> 00:09:38,680 Speaker 1: on Apple. The company was at a market value of 151 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:42,280 Speaker 1: around three hundred billion dollars at the time of Steve 152 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:45,400 Speaker 1: jobs As death, which was a huge leap from the 153 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:51,199 Speaker 1: organization that had been teetering towards bankruptcy fifteen years earlier. Right, 154 00:09:51,320 --> 00:09:54,199 Speaker 1: the company went from on the verge of being irrelevant 155 00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:57,280 Speaker 1: to becoming a three d billion dollar company. That was 156 00:09:57,360 --> 00:10:00,960 Speaker 1: when Tim Cook took over, and that meant that Apple 157 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:05,080 Speaker 1: now had a reputation as a tastemaker, as a trend setter, 158 00:10:05,160 --> 00:10:09,640 Speaker 1: a major influence in computers and electronics. So it had 159 00:10:09,679 --> 00:10:13,840 Speaker 1: become the company for prestige smartphones. So Android devices were 160 00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:17,840 Speaker 1: at this point out selling iPhones for a while. iPhones 161 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:21,760 Speaker 1: were king because one they came out before Android did. Two, 162 00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:26,439 Speaker 1: they just had a sexy kind of aspect to them 163 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:30,840 Speaker 1: that Android could not match. But Google smartphone had really 164 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:34,360 Speaker 1: taken the lead in sales earlier in two thousand eleven, 165 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:37,240 Speaker 1: and the reason for that was pretty simple. Apple was 166 00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:40,000 Speaker 1: the only company making iPhones right the only way you 167 00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:42,959 Speaker 1: could get an iPhone is to purchase it from Apple, 168 00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:45,480 Speaker 1: or to purchase it from a carrier that in turn, 169 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:49,400 Speaker 1: was working with Apple, so an iPhone was a flagship product. 170 00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:53,360 Speaker 1: But Google's Android operating system was open for all sorts 171 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:57,319 Speaker 1: of manufacturers, so there wasn't just one line of Android phones. 172 00:10:57,360 --> 00:11:00,520 Speaker 1: It's not like you know, Google Phone and that's it. 173 00:11:01,559 --> 00:11:04,160 Speaker 1: There were all these different manufacturers making phones that were 174 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:06,920 Speaker 1: running on Android. There were dozens of them, and that 175 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:09,920 Speaker 1: meant Android phones could cover a much wider range of 176 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:14,880 Speaker 1: the market, everything from budget smartphones to elite levels, and 177 00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:19,679 Speaker 1: the feature set would vary as well, right, So that 178 00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:22,960 Speaker 1: meant that there were just more Android phones out there. 179 00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:25,160 Speaker 1: So it made sense that they were out selling the 180 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:27,640 Speaker 1: iPhones for you know, people who couldn't afford an iPhone, 181 00:11:27,679 --> 00:11:29,839 Speaker 1: they would get an Android phone, or some people who 182 00:11:29,880 --> 00:11:33,600 Speaker 1: just didn't like Apple would get an Android phone. That 183 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:37,320 Speaker 1: being said, the iPhone remained a powerful and iconic product 184 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:40,600 Speaker 1: for Apple, and people were still tuning into Apple's corporate 185 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:43,320 Speaker 1: events to see what was coming next. Like every year, 186 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:47,839 Speaker 1: people in droves were tuning in to watch a live 187 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:51,960 Speaker 1: stream of Apple's press events to find out what the 188 00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:54,040 Speaker 1: next iPhone was going to be. Like, you know, and 189 00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:57,360 Speaker 1: you've got to keep in mind when the iPhone first 190 00:11:57,360 --> 00:12:02,440 Speaker 1: came out in America. The way that that contracts with 191 00:12:02,559 --> 00:12:07,199 Speaker 1: carriers worked was that you would essentially agree to have 192 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:12,000 Speaker 1: a two year service agreement with whichever carrier. Let's let's 193 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:13,840 Speaker 1: say it's a T and T. You would agree to 194 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:16,760 Speaker 1: have a two year service with a T and T, 195 00:12:17,679 --> 00:12:19,680 Speaker 1: and then at the end of those two years, you could, 196 00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:22,360 Speaker 1: you know, essentially just stay on the plan, or you 197 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:25,559 Speaker 1: could renew it or whatever. And as part of that, 198 00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:29,360 Speaker 1: the company would subsidize a purchase of your phone, so 199 00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:31,839 Speaker 1: you would be able to get a phone for a 200 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:34,520 Speaker 1: much cheaper price, sometimes for free, depending on the phone. 201 00:12:35,320 --> 00:12:38,000 Speaker 1: So you would buy an iPhone for a couple of 202 00:12:38,080 --> 00:12:41,920 Speaker 1: hundred dollars because it was being subsidized by the carrier, 203 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:44,080 Speaker 1: which was going to get way more money because you were, 204 00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:46,240 Speaker 1: you know, paying a monthly fee to the carrier. For 205 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:49,320 Speaker 1: two years. iPhones would come out, a new one would 206 00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:53,520 Speaker 1: come out every year, so you immediately had this new 207 00:12:53,559 --> 00:12:57,600 Speaker 1: phone that was attracting a very passionate base because they 208 00:12:57,679 --> 00:13:01,800 Speaker 1: love the design, they loved the software, they loved everything 209 00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:04,240 Speaker 1: that made it the iPhone. And you had people who 210 00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:07,560 Speaker 1: are willing to buy a new iPhone even though they 211 00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:09,679 Speaker 1: were still under contracts. So their contract would go over 212 00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:12,720 Speaker 1: two years. A new iPhone comes out every year and 213 00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:15,960 Speaker 1: people are spending huge amounts of money. It was crazy. Um. 214 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:19,800 Speaker 1: Eventually the US moved away from that model like that. 215 00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:22,199 Speaker 1: That was the norm when the iPhone first came out. 216 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:25,360 Speaker 1: It is no longer the norm now. Now usually people 217 00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:28,520 Speaker 1: will buy a phone for full price, uh, and they 218 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:32,240 Speaker 1: aren't aren't getting a subsidized phone from a carrier. Usually 219 00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:35,200 Speaker 1: not always, but you know, that's become more common in 220 00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:36,800 Speaker 1: the US, and which is kind of the way it 221 00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:40,880 Speaker 1: works in the rest of the world too. Now that 222 00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:45,959 Speaker 1: just speaks to the power of Apple's marketing and design 223 00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:50,760 Speaker 1: that they're able to create a product that people will 224 00:13:50,559 --> 00:13:54,360 Speaker 1: they'll endure extra fees in order to be part of 225 00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 1: the group that gets hold of that product phenomenal. The 226 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:05,040 Speaker 1: question was would that continue now that Steve Jobs was gone. 227 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:08,360 Speaker 1: I'll talk about that more when we come back after 228 00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:20,160 Speaker 1: this break. So it was inevitable that people would start 229 00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:24,640 Speaker 1: asking the question, is Apple going to survive without Steve Jobs? 230 00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:27,040 Speaker 1: People have been asking that for years at that point 231 00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:30,680 Speaker 1: because Steve jobs declining health was no real secret. You 232 00:14:30,680 --> 00:14:33,520 Speaker 1: could see it whenever he was taking the stage, and 233 00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:37,680 Speaker 1: there were tons of people who were predicting that once 234 00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:43,560 Speaker 1: Jobs was gone, Apple was going to unravel and and 235 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:46,800 Speaker 1: implode because Steve Jobs it felt like he was the 236 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:50,280 Speaker 1: one guiding everything and keeping it together again. It was 237 00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:53,920 Speaker 1: this cult of personality. It was also ignoring the fact 238 00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:57,200 Speaker 1: that there were so many other talented people at Apple 239 00:14:57,480 --> 00:15:02,000 Speaker 1: who were key in the company's success us so Johnny 240 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:04,760 Speaker 1: and I've being one of them. And you know, it 241 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:06,720 Speaker 1: kind of makes sense that people were predicting that the 242 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:09,440 Speaker 1: company was going to hit on hard times because when 243 00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:12,040 Speaker 1: Jobs had been forced out of Apple or when he 244 00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:16,920 Speaker 1: left Apple, depending on your point of view. Back in well, 245 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:20,400 Speaker 1: that's when Apple fell into this pattern of bad decisions 246 00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:24,000 Speaker 1: that nearly brought the whole company down. But the Apple 247 00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:27,760 Speaker 1: of two thousand eleven was a very different organization than 248 00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:31,200 Speaker 1: the one from the eighties and nineties, and Tim Cook 249 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:34,040 Speaker 1: was the type of leader who could focus with amazing 250 00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:38,600 Speaker 1: clarity on goals like increasing Apple's value, which, boy howdy 251 00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:40,960 Speaker 1: did he do that. We'll talk about that more later 252 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:43,480 Speaker 1: in this episode, but let's get back to Johnny. I've 253 00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:48,840 Speaker 1: Job's death hit I've very hard, But in early two 254 00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:52,640 Speaker 1: thousand twelve, I was energized to work on something new 255 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:56,480 Speaker 1: Apple had acquired a company that was working on tech 256 00:15:56,560 --> 00:16:00,880 Speaker 1: in the health sector. Specifically, they were developing technology that 257 00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:05,680 Speaker 1: could use light to detect glucose levels in blood, which 258 00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:09,720 Speaker 1: would be phenomenal for people who, for example, have diabetes 259 00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:13,560 Speaker 1: to have a non invasive way to monitor their glucose levels. 260 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:17,200 Speaker 1: And I've wanted to make a wearable one that would 261 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:20,720 Speaker 1: happen to the health space, but it would also serve 262 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:26,000 Speaker 1: as a beautiful, fashionable watch. He wanted to make a 263 00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:28,600 Speaker 1: smart watch that was the best of all worlds, the 264 00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:32,520 Speaker 1: best in health tech, the best in time pieces, and 265 00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:37,480 Speaker 1: the best in fashion. He really wanted to create something 266 00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:43,600 Speaker 1: that would transcend the gadget world and enter into the 267 00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:47,480 Speaker 1: world of luxury fashion. It would take two years of 268 00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:51,040 Speaker 1: work to bring the Apple Watch to reality, two years 269 00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:55,800 Speaker 1: of design, finding the right materials, finding the right form factor, 270 00:16:56,000 --> 00:17:00,200 Speaker 1: finding the right components to all make it work proper, really, 271 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:02,280 Speaker 1: and you know, figuring out things like how do you 272 00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:05,920 Speaker 1: have how do you display things on a screen that's 273 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:07,639 Speaker 1: going to be small enough to fit on a wrist. 274 00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:12,000 Speaker 1: All of these were decisions that would take a couple 275 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:15,760 Speaker 1: of years to really hone in on. Not during that 276 00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:19,680 Speaker 1: same time, something big happened at Apple That was both 277 00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:24,600 Speaker 1: a blessing and a curse for I've so Later in 278 00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:29,960 Speaker 1: two thousand twelve, under Tim Cook's watch, the company released 279 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:34,400 Speaker 1: a new iPhone which was per usual, and also during 280 00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:38,359 Speaker 1: that time released Apple Maps. Now. I don't know, my 281 00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:41,399 Speaker 1: little Drew gis if you remember what Apple Maps was 282 00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:45,760 Speaker 1: back in the early days. But it wasn't good. It 283 00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:48,040 Speaker 1: was buggy. It was something you did not want in 284 00:17:48,119 --> 00:17:51,760 Speaker 1: a navigation app, right. You want to be sure that 285 00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:55,000 Speaker 1: your navigation app is actually guiding you to the right place, 286 00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:57,240 Speaker 1: and you couldn't be sure with that with Apple Maps. 287 00:17:57,240 --> 00:18:01,679 Speaker 1: There were some notable and hilarious earl years of the app, 288 00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:05,360 Speaker 1: and Apple got a lot of criticism for the rollout 289 00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:08,639 Speaker 1: of this product. And just to be fair to the 290 00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:11,920 Speaker 1: team that had been working on Apple Naps, they had 291 00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:15,119 Speaker 1: been rushed and it was pushed out before it was 292 00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:18,040 Speaker 1: really ready. They knew that they needed more time, They 293 00:18:18,119 --> 00:18:22,399 Speaker 1: just didn't get it because there was this need for 294 00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:25,640 Speaker 1: the app to be out there. So Apple wanted to 295 00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:29,960 Speaker 1: make Scott Forstall, who was the head of the software side, 296 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:34,760 Speaker 1: to apologize for the buggy software. Now that was something 297 00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:39,479 Speaker 1: the company had never done under Steve Jobs. You know, 298 00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:42,399 Speaker 1: even during the whole antenna gate, which was an issue 299 00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:47,680 Speaker 1: with a previous iPhone, that's and that the antenna layout 300 00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:51,280 Speaker 1: within the phone, uh, began to create problems. If you 301 00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:54,320 Speaker 1: were quote unquote holding the phone wrong, you were blocking 302 00:18:54,359 --> 00:18:58,360 Speaker 1: the signal. There was a lot of signal dropping, and uh, 303 00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:00,440 Speaker 1: you know, Steve Jobs was just saying that people were 304 00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:03,280 Speaker 1: holding the phone wrong instead of saying that, you know, 305 00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:05,479 Speaker 1: it was a faulty design. Johnny I was kind of 306 00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:08,960 Speaker 1: similar on that too, and um, and so that was 307 00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:12,240 Speaker 1: very notable. People were thinking that Apple was a brazen 308 00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:17,560 Speaker 1: company for not admitting that it had failed in some way. Well, 309 00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:21,119 Speaker 1: this was a very different approach. This was the boss 310 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:24,240 Speaker 1: telling Forrestall, hey, you need to sign this apology letter 311 00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:28,320 Speaker 1: and you need to admit that there was fault in 312 00:19:28,359 --> 00:19:31,400 Speaker 1: what we released, and Forestall refused to sign it. Now, 313 00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:34,840 Speaker 1: the rumor is that that is what angered Tim Cook, 314 00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:38,320 Speaker 1: who then chose to let Forrestall go to essentially fire 315 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:42,240 Speaker 1: the head of software. Now, this was a huge deal 316 00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:45,360 Speaker 1: for several reasons. One is that Forrestall had previously been 317 00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:47,520 Speaker 1: on a pretty short list of folks who could have 318 00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:51,840 Speaker 1: succeeded Steve Jobs as CEO. People thought potentially he was 319 00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:54,680 Speaker 1: going to step into that role before Jobs named Cook 320 00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:59,600 Speaker 1: as his successor. Now, obviously Forrestall didn't become CEO. But 321 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:02,040 Speaker 1: another a big deal is that for Stall and I've 322 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:08,080 Speaker 1: had a fundamental disagreement when it came to design approach, 323 00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:13,399 Speaker 1: specifically over skew a morphism. Skill morphism is when you 324 00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:17,320 Speaker 1: make some sort of derivative of an object that retains 325 00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:21,600 Speaker 1: features that were necessary in the original version of that object, 326 00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:25,000 Speaker 1: but not in the derivative. I know that sounds kind 327 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:27,000 Speaker 1: of messy to to talk about, so let me give 328 00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:29,679 Speaker 1: you a very simple example. So, when you're ready to 329 00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:32,639 Speaker 1: throw something away, something physical, like let's say that you've 330 00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:34,440 Speaker 1: got a sheet of paper that you're gonna need to 331 00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:36,479 Speaker 1: throw away, you wad it up and you toss it 332 00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:41,399 Speaker 1: into a trash can. So when it came time to 333 00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:46,720 Speaker 1: creating a Windows icon for deleting a file, it was 334 00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:51,800 Speaker 1: pretty common to represent the deleting process as an icon 335 00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:53,600 Speaker 1: that looked like a little trash can, and you could 336 00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:56,560 Speaker 1: just drag a file over to the trash can and 337 00:20:56,640 --> 00:20:59,600 Speaker 1: let go, and it would go into the recycle bin 338 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:03,360 Speaker 1: or the trash can. Now, there's no reason to make 339 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:05,520 Speaker 1: the icon look like a trash can. Like, it doesn't 340 00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:07,760 Speaker 1: have to look like that, right, because you're not actually 341 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:12,240 Speaker 1: physically tossing a digital file into the opening of the 342 00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:15,080 Speaker 1: icon of this can in order to throw it away. 343 00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:18,840 Speaker 1: But the combination of the familiar with the digital process 344 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:22,080 Speaker 1: is an example of skew a morphism, the idea being, oh, 345 00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:24,960 Speaker 1: people know what trash cans are, that therefore they will 346 00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:28,359 Speaker 1: understand that the process in order to delete a file. 347 00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:33,440 Speaker 1: Johnny I did not like skew amorphism. To put it lightly, 348 00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:36,560 Speaker 1: he didn't like the look of Apple's icons on the 349 00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:40,240 Speaker 1: digital screens that he labored over designing. So in other words, 350 00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:43,480 Speaker 1: he felt like he was putting in tons of work 351 00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:49,400 Speaker 1: to create the best physical product that was showing icons 352 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:56,840 Speaker 1: and software that didn't belong on his work of art. Essentially, So, 353 00:21:57,680 --> 00:22:01,240 Speaker 1: once for stall was gone, there was the opportunity that 354 00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:05,359 Speaker 1: rose up, and Tim cook I saw that opportunity. He 355 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:08,159 Speaker 1: decided to put I'VE in charge of the look of 356 00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:11,879 Speaker 1: Apple's software. Namely, i was put in charge of human 357 00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:16,320 Speaker 1: interface stuff. So instances like the icons that appear on 358 00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:21,800 Speaker 1: Apple screens that became i've's domain. In addition to industrial design. Now, 359 00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:25,960 Speaker 1: while I've relished the job of making the stuff that 360 00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:28,720 Speaker 1: appeared on the screens of the devices he had designed, 361 00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:35,000 Speaker 1: compliment those designs, and not conflict with them. This seemingly 362 00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:39,119 Speaker 1: victory that he had experienced brought with it additional responsibilities, 363 00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:45,600 Speaker 1: which included lots and lots of meetings, tons of meetings, 364 00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:49,240 Speaker 1: and i've's life began to consist of lots more meetings, 365 00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:53,880 Speaker 1: which he found taxing and distracting. And while I've had 366 00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:57,119 Speaker 1: grown accustomed to working very closely with Steve jobs Like 367 00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:00,639 Speaker 1: often they would meet one on one to talk about 368 00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:04,720 Speaker 1: design things, well, that wasn't Tim Cook's style. Tim Cook 369 00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:06,679 Speaker 1: wasn't the type of person to take a one on 370 00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:09,119 Speaker 1: one meeting with Johnny I've and spend an hour or 371 00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:13,920 Speaker 1: two talking about designs. Instead, Tim Cook would organize much 372 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:16,960 Speaker 1: larger meetings and Johnny I've would be part of those. 373 00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:22,200 Speaker 1: That meant that other departments would have more input into 374 00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:25,600 Speaker 1: this process. So I've was no longer working directly with 375 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:31,480 Speaker 1: the CEO of Apple. He was getting suggestions and directives 376 00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:34,960 Speaker 1: from other department heads. So under jobs the design team 377 00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:38,040 Speaker 1: had become the most important department in the company arguably, 378 00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:41,119 Speaker 1: and the operations team like I said was meant to 379 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:45,119 Speaker 1: enable the design team, but Tim Cook came from the 380 00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:50,520 Speaker 1: operations side, and he flipped that relationship operations would ultimately 381 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:55,240 Speaker 1: determine which design elements could move forward in which ones wouldn't. Now, 382 00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:57,760 Speaker 1: I've did throw himself into a couple of major projects 383 00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:00,080 Speaker 1: that kept him busy enough to at least cope with 384 00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:03,200 Speaker 1: those changes. So the Apple Watch was a huge one. 385 00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:09,240 Speaker 1: I've obsessed over the materials and design with the watch. 386 00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:13,159 Speaker 1: He wanted the watch to have a crown. So, in 387 00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:17,040 Speaker 1: case you're not familiar with watch terminology. On on classic watches, 388 00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:20,040 Speaker 1: the crown is the little button or dial that you 389 00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:22,440 Speaker 1: use on the side of the watch case that lets 390 00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:24,720 Speaker 1: you set the time. It's what let's you know, move 391 00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:28,760 Speaker 1: the hour and minute hands around the watch face so 392 00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:31,000 Speaker 1: that you get the correct time set on your watch, 393 00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:35,440 Speaker 1: or in cases with spring watches, it's also how you 394 00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:38,919 Speaker 1: wind the watch so that the spring can continue to 395 00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:44,200 Speaker 1: operate the watches clockwork. Now, on the Apple Watch, obviously 396 00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:48,199 Speaker 1: there was no need to have a crown to to 397 00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:50,320 Speaker 1: do those kind of things. You could do everything by touch, 398 00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:53,199 Speaker 1: but the crown was there because one it was a 399 00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:57,880 Speaker 1: classic piece of of you know, watch anatomy, there's something 400 00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:00,960 Speaker 1: you would expect to find on any luxury watch, but 401 00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:02,840 Speaker 1: Johnny I've also wanted it to be a way to 402 00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:06,920 Speaker 1: navigate through menus and things like that. So he wanted 403 00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:10,600 Speaker 1: to make this watch something that would again transcend tech 404 00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:14,040 Speaker 1: gadgets and then be worthy in the world of fashion, 405 00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:18,399 Speaker 1: to be something accepted in the luxury fashion market, because 406 00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:22,320 Speaker 1: Johnny I've, ultimately he's an industrial designer who wants to 407 00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:25,040 Speaker 1: make the best of the best. He wants to make 408 00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:29,679 Speaker 1: the most beautiful thing of whatever it is he's making possible. 409 00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:33,000 Speaker 1: So to that end, he oversaw the design of everything 410 00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:36,640 Speaker 1: with a watch, including things like the straps, which meant 411 00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:39,320 Speaker 1: that he was looking at thousands of different samples of 412 00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:41,800 Speaker 1: materials to pick out the right ones to make up 413 00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:45,280 Speaker 1: the straps for the Apple Watch. He would also obsess 414 00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:49,960 Speaker 1: over the curve of the case, every little tiny element there. 415 00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:54,280 Speaker 1: And meanwhile, he was also courting influential figures in the 416 00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:57,119 Speaker 1: world of fashion. He was meeting with them to talk 417 00:25:57,280 --> 00:26:02,520 Speaker 1: with them about this role of the Apple Watch playing 418 00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:06,280 Speaker 1: a part in the world of fashion. He impressed leaders 419 00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:09,480 Speaker 1: in the space with his dedication to detail, an obsession 420 00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:12,280 Speaker 1: over getting it perfect, like those were things that the 421 00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:16,320 Speaker 1: fashion world understood that was common in the fashion world, 422 00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:20,879 Speaker 1: this obsession with detail, and it was a way for 423 00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:24,600 Speaker 1: him to connect to that world, where otherwise the fashion 424 00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:26,600 Speaker 1: world might just look at a at a smart watch 425 00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:30,120 Speaker 1: and say, yeah, that's just a gimmick. It's just a gadget. Now, 426 00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:33,720 Speaker 1: the Apple Watch was an odd product in many ways. 427 00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:37,200 Speaker 1: It had a pretty odd launch. The tech world, which 428 00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:40,040 Speaker 1: had become used to being the target audience of Apple's 429 00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:45,040 Speaker 1: press events, kind of found itself nudged aside in favor. 430 00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:47,119 Speaker 1: You know, the the fashion world got favor over the 431 00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:51,199 Speaker 1: tech world, and that was unusual. It kind of rubbed 432 00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:55,040 Speaker 1: some folks in the text sphere the wrong way, and 433 00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:59,600 Speaker 1: it didn't mesh perfectly well. People liked the watch in general, 434 00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:04,000 Speaker 1: but the Apple Watch when it launched lacked several features. 435 00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:07,280 Speaker 1: A lot of the health features that had been planned 436 00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:09,919 Speaker 1: for the watch ultimately had to get stripped down to 437 00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:14,280 Speaker 1: like the bare minimum because the tech just wasn't ready yet. 438 00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:18,000 Speaker 1: So while they knew what they wanted to do, the 439 00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:22,119 Speaker 1: watch wasn't capable of doing everything out of the box, 440 00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:25,639 Speaker 1: so they had to ship something. That was the issue 441 00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:28,680 Speaker 1: was that they couldn't just delay, they had already kind 442 00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:31,760 Speaker 1: of committed to shipping, so it really meant that they 443 00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:33,960 Speaker 1: had to strip out some of the features they had 444 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:37,800 Speaker 1: planned for the watch. Enthusiasm in the press for the 445 00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:41,760 Speaker 1: Apple Watch, both on the tech and fashion side, was 446 00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:45,040 Speaker 1: initially pretty high, but it flagged a bit once the 447 00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:49,520 Speaker 1: watch came out. That being said, it would eventually become 448 00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:53,960 Speaker 1: a monumental commercial success over time. In two thousand and fifteen, 449 00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:57,479 Speaker 1: there were naysayers who dismissed the Apple Watches just being 450 00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:01,440 Speaker 1: a flop. They said, well, this was a sign that 451 00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:03,639 Speaker 1: the company had lost its way since Steve Jobs had 452 00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:05,800 Speaker 1: passed away, because it was the first time the company 453 00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:10,280 Speaker 1: had introduced a new product line since Steve Jobs passing. 454 00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:13,680 Speaker 1: And I said, well, this is obviously evidence that Apple 455 00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:16,720 Speaker 1: is no longer the company it used to be. And 456 00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:20,320 Speaker 1: the watch industry also dismissed the Apple Watch, initially saying 457 00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:24,280 Speaker 1: that unlike a true luxury watch, which you know, you 458 00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:28,119 Speaker 1: might spend thousands of dollars on, the Apple Watch wasn't 459 00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:32,600 Speaker 1: designed to last the test of time. Like, it's weird 460 00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:35,000 Speaker 1: to start talking about time and watches, but but a 461 00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:38,000 Speaker 1: true luxury watch is supposed to be timeless. This idea 462 00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:42,280 Speaker 1: that you have this classic design that will remain relevant 463 00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:46,040 Speaker 1: for your entire lifetime, and that you know, you can 464 00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:50,160 Speaker 1: collect other watches that have different, you know, aspects to them, 465 00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:53,719 Speaker 1: but that any individual watch should be a thing of 466 00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:58,440 Speaker 1: art forever. Contrast that with the gadget world, where like, 467 00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:01,520 Speaker 1: just like with the iPhone, every year they're gonna have 468 00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:05,480 Speaker 1: a new model with new features that make the old 469 00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:09,120 Speaker 1: ones obsolete, and and that in fact, the software running 470 00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:12,520 Speaker 1: on older models will eventually get to a point where 471 00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:15,960 Speaker 1: it's no longer supported. So Apple watches, by their nature, 472 00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:19,560 Speaker 1: because they were smart watches, because they were tech, had 473 00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:22,440 Speaker 1: a limited shelf life. They would not last the test 474 00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:27,000 Speaker 1: of time as it were. Plus, initially the original Apple Watch, 475 00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:30,040 Speaker 1: you had to pair it with an iPhone, and obviously 476 00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:32,920 Speaker 1: that limited its customer base. Just like when the iPod 477 00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:35,200 Speaker 1: first came out it could only be paired with a 478 00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:39,120 Speaker 1: Macintosh computer, the original Apple Watch could only be paired 479 00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:41,360 Speaker 1: with an iPhone, and that meant that, you know, you 480 00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:45,360 Speaker 1: had an entire swath of folks who might admire the 481 00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:49,520 Speaker 1: watch for its fashionable appearance, but they wouldn't buy it 482 00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:53,280 Speaker 1: because they didn't own an iPhone. Apple's second generation watch 483 00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:56,960 Speaker 1: course corrected to an extent. For one thing, the company 484 00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:00,760 Speaker 1: decided to drop its attempt to really play the luxury 485 00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:05,360 Speaker 1: goods space. So when the first generation watch emerged, one 486 00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:09,920 Speaker 1: of the models that Johnny I've designed was had a 487 00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:14,200 Speaker 1: had a price tag at an eye popping seventeen thousand dollars, 488 00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:18,680 Speaker 1: and you know, it was obviously being marketed as a 489 00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:23,000 Speaker 1: high end luxury good. The second generation, they didn't do that. 490 00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:28,920 Speaker 1: They didn't produce these extremely expensive luxury versions of the 491 00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:33,600 Speaker 1: Apple Watch. Instead, they really focused more on the active lifestyle, 492 00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:38,520 Speaker 1: health tech side of the market. And obviously that's a 493 00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:42,120 Speaker 1: different a different message in a different market than high 494 00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:44,920 Speaker 1: end luxury brands. So they also eased off on the 495 00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:48,800 Speaker 1: requirement to pair it with an iPhone, which increased its relevancy, 496 00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:51,800 Speaker 1: and the Apple Watch would become the dominant model in 497 00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:55,640 Speaker 1: the smart watch industry, and only that it became so 498 00:30:55,760 --> 00:31:00,840 Speaker 1: popular that it began to outsell the entire Swiss watch industry. 499 00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:06,000 Speaker 1: So the watch industry, which had been dismissing Apple saying, oh, 500 00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:07,920 Speaker 1: they got it all wrong. They don't know what they're 501 00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:09,880 Speaker 1: they don't know what they're doing. We know what we're 502 00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:12,600 Speaker 1: doing because we've been doing this for more than a century. 503 00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:16,480 Speaker 1: Then it turned around where Apple started to out sell them. 504 00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:21,360 Speaker 1: So while the initial launch was a bit rocky, they 505 00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:24,280 Speaker 1: were able to turn that all around. It did cause 506 00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:27,280 Speaker 1: some waves of Apple, Like Johnny I've was on somewhat 507 00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:32,720 Speaker 1: uncertain ground because the rollout did not propel Apple in 508 00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:35,719 Speaker 1: the way that everyone had hoped. It just took a 509 00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:38,840 Speaker 1: little longer for that to to really take off. All Right, 510 00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:41,360 Speaker 1: we're gonna take another break. When we come back, we'll 511 00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:44,800 Speaker 1: talk more about how johnny Ives time with Apple would 512 00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:55,320 Speaker 1: come to an end. So before the break, you know, 513 00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:57,440 Speaker 1: I was talking about how there were a couple of 514 00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:02,880 Speaker 1: major projects that occupied Johnny I's time that, uh, we're 515 00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:05,720 Speaker 1: really important. Well, the Apple Watch was one, and the 516 00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:09,280 Speaker 1: other one was something that Steve Jobs had started but 517 00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:12,520 Speaker 1: obviously was unable to finish before he passed away, and 518 00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:16,800 Speaker 1: that was the design of a new Apple campus. I 519 00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:21,360 Speaker 1: would take a prominent role in this design. The building 520 00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:25,800 Speaker 1: would end up costing billions of dollars, and it featured 521 00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:31,600 Speaker 1: curved surfaces and open office floor plans, and some of 522 00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:34,560 Speaker 1: that would end up getting criticized by Apple employees because 523 00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:37,400 Speaker 1: sound would travel really far in the building, like it 524 00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:40,240 Speaker 1: would travel along the curve surfaces, and it made it 525 00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:42,160 Speaker 1: kind of difficult to focus if you could hear every 526 00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:46,680 Speaker 1: passing conversation going on. But uh but the physical design, 527 00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:50,320 Speaker 1: like the look of it was stunning and is stunning. 528 00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:53,800 Speaker 1: So the building is by all measures a phenomenon. If 529 00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:55,760 Speaker 1: you haven't seen it, you should look at pictures of 530 00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:59,800 Speaker 1: the Apple Headquarters. Um. It's it's kind of a loop 531 00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:03,960 Speaker 1: of the building, a circle with a hollow center. There's 532 00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:06,800 Speaker 1: a courtyard in that in the middle of the building. 533 00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:10,560 Speaker 1: And some folks would even call this a spaceship because 534 00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:16,520 Speaker 1: it had this sort of futuristic, otherworldly appearance. Uh. As 535 00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:20,520 Speaker 1: as for the grounds, like, it's stunning another element that 536 00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:24,920 Speaker 1: I've oversaw. So the campus has fruit trees planted all 537 00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:28,120 Speaker 1: around it. It's got hathways for walking. That's something that 538 00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:31,080 Speaker 1: Johnny I've really wanted. Steve Jobs also really wanted that. 539 00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:35,600 Speaker 1: And there are sections of the building where you get 540 00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:39,760 Speaker 1: an amazing view of the sunset in the evening. It 541 00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:42,520 Speaker 1: has a theater that looks like it's floating in place. 542 00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:45,440 Speaker 1: It's a glass rotunda just kind of it looks like 543 00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:49,200 Speaker 1: it's just magically suspended from the pictures and videos that 544 00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:54,800 Speaker 1: I have seen. The headquarters is breathtaking, lee beautiful. I 545 00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:56,560 Speaker 1: don't know how practical it is, like, I don't know 546 00:33:56,600 --> 00:34:00,480 Speaker 1: what it's like to work there, but it's undeniably gorgeous. 547 00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:03,200 Speaker 1: I may have to do a full episode about that 548 00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:06,680 Speaker 1: in the future, because the whole story is fascinating. It's 549 00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:10,280 Speaker 1: obviously a lot more goes into it than just saying, Johnny, 550 00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:14,879 Speaker 1: I've decided to complete this design project that Steve Jobs 551 00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:18,040 Speaker 1: had had started. It goes so far beyond that, but 552 00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:20,880 Speaker 1: I don't want to I want to turn this episode 553 00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:26,040 Speaker 1: just into that story. The other important thing to remember now, 554 00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:28,840 Speaker 1: Johnny I've was tackling these partly because he felt an 555 00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:32,440 Speaker 1: obligation to Steve Jobs, his friend, and partly because he 556 00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:34,920 Speaker 1: felt an obligation to Apple, the company that he had 557 00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:40,000 Speaker 1: fallen in love with. But Johnny I was also burning out. 558 00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:43,560 Speaker 1: He did not like having to go to all these meetings. 559 00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:46,920 Speaker 1: He didn't like the interference that he was encountering from 560 00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:50,440 Speaker 1: other departments. He did not like the design was no 561 00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:55,080 Speaker 1: longer at the helm at Apple, and so he began 562 00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:57,400 Speaker 1: to spend more time away from the office. He was 563 00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:01,480 Speaker 1: still working, but he wasn't coming in to the office. 564 00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:04,719 Speaker 1: This was before the headquarters opened, so this was at 565 00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:09,320 Speaker 1: Apple's old campus, and he just wasn't taking the time 566 00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:12,520 Speaker 1: to commute in. Instead, whenever he had meetings, he would 567 00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:16,080 Speaker 1: have people come out to him to San Francisco rather 568 00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:19,680 Speaker 1: than him making the drive up to Cupertino, and so 569 00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:23,080 Speaker 1: his team began to see him less and less. So 570 00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:28,480 Speaker 1: it probably wasn't a huge surprise in two thousand nineteen 571 00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:31,840 Speaker 1: when I've and Cook reached an agreement for I've to 572 00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:36,440 Speaker 1: step down as the director of Industrial Design, several of 573 00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:39,920 Speaker 1: the top folks in design in that department had already 574 00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:44,960 Speaker 1: left Apple at that point, so some of the superstars 575 00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:48,600 Speaker 1: in johnny Ives team had already gone off to to 576 00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:54,200 Speaker 1: do other things. So the design department wasn't what it 577 00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:59,200 Speaker 1: used to be when when design was king at Apple. 578 00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:02,920 Speaker 1: Not that there weren't talented people. They're They're absolutely word 579 00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:06,640 Speaker 1: and there continued to be incredibly talented designers who work 580 00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:10,000 Speaker 1: at Apple, but it was very different. Like I'm sure 581 00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:15,200 Speaker 1: morale was a little shaky with some of these these 582 00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:18,919 Speaker 1: prominent people in the department having left, including Johnny I've 583 00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:22,840 Speaker 1: and you know, maybe it wasn't that big of a 584 00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:25,759 Speaker 1: of a shock, because I've had seemed to be kind 585 00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:28,960 Speaker 1: of checked out for the last couple of years. But 586 00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:31,200 Speaker 1: I want to be fair to Johnny. I've it's not 587 00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:34,400 Speaker 1: that I think he just got, you know, tired. He 588 00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:36,640 Speaker 1: had a family. He wanted to spend more time with 589 00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:40,640 Speaker 1: his family. Uh. And that includes his extended family who 590 00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:43,320 Speaker 1: were still back in England and he didn't get a 591 00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:45,480 Speaker 1: chance to see them nearly as often as he liked. 592 00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:50,279 Speaker 1: His father had experienced a stroke. In fact, it was 593 00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:53,600 Speaker 1: at a point where they were just about to hold 594 00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:58,120 Speaker 1: this big ceremony about the opening of Apple's new headquarters 595 00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:01,560 Speaker 1: and Johnny I was pulled away because his father had 596 00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:03,560 Speaker 1: a stroke. So he traveled back to England to be 597 00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:06,640 Speaker 1: with his dad. And obviously I was very concerned about 598 00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:10,160 Speaker 1: his father. Uh. And this was a huge deal too, 599 00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:14,760 Speaker 1: because I have a dedicated so much time and effort 600 00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:18,440 Speaker 1: to complete Steve jobs as vision with the Apple headquarters. 601 00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:21,000 Speaker 1: This was not an easy thing for him. It was 602 00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:23,200 Speaker 1: obviously the decision that was right for him to go 603 00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:25,040 Speaker 1: and see his father like that was what was most 604 00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:29,319 Speaker 1: important to him. But you know, it's one of those 605 00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:35,640 Speaker 1: things where you can't really imagine another competing event that 606 00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:38,680 Speaker 1: would have been as hard to miss out on as 607 00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:41,120 Speaker 1: the opening of this headquarters that Johnny I has been 608 00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:45,440 Speaker 1: so long working on. He also was really tired of 609 00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:48,720 Speaker 1: having to fight against other departments in order to justify 610 00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:51,320 Speaker 1: his design choices and to have design have a decent 611 00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:55,240 Speaker 1: place at the table when working on products. Some stuff 612 00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:59,280 Speaker 1: that had been in semi secret development, like an Apple car, 613 00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:03,399 Speaker 1: where anguishing because the projects turned it out turned out 614 00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:06,719 Speaker 1: to be more complicated than they had first imagined, and 615 00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:09,600 Speaker 1: that was distressing too. Write like when you spend a 616 00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:12,359 Speaker 1: ton of time working on something and it never comes out. 617 00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:15,920 Speaker 1: And it's not that it's you know, like there's any 618 00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:18,239 Speaker 1: bad reason for that, it's just that things aren't working out. 619 00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:22,360 Speaker 1: But that's still very frustrating, it's still demoralizing. So I 620 00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:26,280 Speaker 1: was ready to take a further step back from Apple, 621 00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:30,200 Speaker 1: like he was already not showing up as frequently, but 622 00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:33,400 Speaker 1: that was not enough. So in two thousand nineteen, he 623 00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:37,280 Speaker 1: officially stepped down as the director of Industrial Design at Apple, 624 00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:42,160 Speaker 1: and he co founded a design consultancy company with his 625 00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:46,800 Speaker 1: friend Mark Newsom, and they called the company Love from 626 00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:50,239 Speaker 1: Apple would actually be their biggest clients, so I would 627 00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:53,920 Speaker 1: still be involved with Apple, uh so love from security 628 00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:59,239 Speaker 1: one hundred million dollar agreement. That agreement included restrictions on 629 00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:03,399 Speaker 1: the types of alliance that Johnny I've could accept. So 630 00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:08,400 Speaker 1: he was prevented from working with any direct competitors to Apple. 631 00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:12,600 Speaker 1: In other words, like that was against this agreement. He 632 00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:15,360 Speaker 1: could work for other you know, he could design for 633 00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:18,640 Speaker 1: other companies that weren't in direct competition with Apple. And 634 00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:22,560 Speaker 1: the contract also included an agreement that it could be 635 00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:26,439 Speaker 1: extended on an annual basis. So I kind of took 636 00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:29,600 Speaker 1: on more of an advisor role with the design team. 637 00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:33,000 Speaker 1: He would still have input, but the design team wasn't 638 00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:36,480 Speaker 1: obligated to follow his direction. It was more like he 639 00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:41,520 Speaker 1: was providing advice and counsel. And then this year, in 640 00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:46,360 Speaker 1: two ivan, Apple decided that they weren't going to extend 641 00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:50,959 Speaker 1: that contract. That this arrangement is over. Apple is going 642 00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:54,440 Speaker 1: forward without Johnny I've having a place there at all, 643 00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:57,160 Speaker 1: and it seems both parties are at peace with this. 644 00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:02,840 Speaker 1: And the Apple of today is an entirely different company 645 00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:05,319 Speaker 1: from the one that Johnny ive was part of. For 646 00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:09,400 Speaker 1: one thing, earlier this year, it briefly hit the three 647 00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:14,520 Speaker 1: trillion dollar valuation. Now remember it was valued at around 648 00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:18,200 Speaker 1: three billion when Steve Jobs passed away. So whatever you 649 00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:22,000 Speaker 1: think of Tim Cook and his leadership at Apple, there's 650 00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:25,160 Speaker 1: no denying that he made a huge amount of money 651 00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:30,399 Speaker 1: and delivered unprecedented value to shareholders. However, more people are 652 00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:33,000 Speaker 1: looking at Apple as no longer really being a cutting 653 00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:37,719 Speaker 1: edge hardware company, like it's not defining the esthetic of 654 00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:42,000 Speaker 1: electronics and computers anymore. Part of Tim Cook's leadership has 655 00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:45,600 Speaker 1: been a push towards becoming more of a services platform, 656 00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:50,640 Speaker 1: with Apple taking a cut of every transaction, and this 657 00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:54,000 Speaker 1: had subsequently brought the company under a lot of scrutiny, 658 00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:57,200 Speaker 1: as other companies as well as governmental regulators around the 659 00:40:57,239 --> 00:41:00,719 Speaker 1: world have been asking if Apple is perhaps is engaged 660 00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:05,000 Speaker 1: in anti competitive practices in its efforts to redefine the 661 00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:10,719 Speaker 1: company's revenue model. Cook really lad the charge into services. 662 00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:15,440 Speaker 1: He saw that as a sustainable way toward growth. But 663 00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:19,440 Speaker 1: with this growing resistance around the world, we may one 664 00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:22,799 Speaker 1: day see Apple have to pivot again, at least if 665 00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:26,600 Speaker 1: Cook and the executive team wanted to continue to grow now. 666 00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:28,680 Speaker 1: I don't see this being an issue in the short term, 667 00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:31,800 Speaker 1: but if we actually do see more regulation with teeth 668 00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:34,560 Speaker 1: in it, then that could come to pass. Like we're 669 00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:38,920 Speaker 1: seeing how various governments around the world are saying, you 670 00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:43,160 Speaker 1: create the platform, you prevent anyone who builds in that 671 00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:47,000 Speaker 1: platform to go outside of your own process, and you 672 00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:52,759 Speaker 1: charge for your process, which that doesn't feel right. If 673 00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:55,200 Speaker 1: if that continues, an Apple has to give up some 674 00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:59,439 Speaker 1: of that control, it will really impact the revenue model 675 00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:03,560 Speaker 1: that Timo has been building toward. And um, that's gonna 676 00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:06,160 Speaker 1: be tough for the company because that they will have 677 00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:08,880 Speaker 1: to adjust for that. They will not be making the 678 00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:11,440 Speaker 1: same amount of revenue that they have been for the 679 00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:15,239 Speaker 1: past few years if that fundamentally changes now. I don't 680 00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:19,120 Speaker 1: mean to say that all of Apple's service fees are 681 00:42:19,160 --> 00:42:21,279 Speaker 1: going to just disappear. A lot of people, a lot 682 00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:25,239 Speaker 1: of developers are still going to go through Apples systems. 683 00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:29,160 Speaker 1: But if enough of them, especially the ones that have 684 00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:32,200 Speaker 1: some sway, are able to do it in a different way, 685 00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:35,279 Speaker 1: that is money out of Apple's pocket, if you want 686 00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:37,680 Speaker 1: to look at it that way. As for Johnny I've, 687 00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:41,879 Speaker 1: I hope his new work is rewarding and that it's 688 00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:44,319 Speaker 1: fun and that he has the time to spend with 689 00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:48,200 Speaker 1: his family. Johnny I've is definitely not hurting for cash. 690 00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:51,360 Speaker 1: I was one of the best compensated employees at Apple 691 00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:55,320 Speaker 1: and amassed a huge fortune. He also has been knighted. 692 00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:59,400 Speaker 1: He is Sir Jonathan. Uh. He was, so he has 693 00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:03,080 Speaker 1: a knighthood. The guy is not hurting at all. Uh 694 00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:07,120 Speaker 1: he he rides around in Chaufford Bentley's he is not 695 00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:10,560 Speaker 1: He's not sporting one of those change verses that when 696 00:43:10,600 --> 00:43:13,200 Speaker 1: you open it, just moths fly out of it. I 697 00:43:13,239 --> 00:43:16,400 Speaker 1: should also add there were some other Johnny I've designs 698 00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:19,359 Speaker 1: that I didn't really cover in these episodes that we 699 00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:22,640 Speaker 1: could chat about. They are important things. I just had 700 00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:26,480 Speaker 1: to make cuts ultimately, because I mean four episodes is 701 00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:30,399 Speaker 1: a lot for any topic. But I didn't talk about 702 00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:33,600 Speaker 1: the MacBook Air, a laptop so thin that you could 703 00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:36,719 Speaker 1: fit it in a Manila envelope that was viewed as 704 00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:40,719 Speaker 1: a gorgeous, phenomenal design to be able to create a 705 00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:46,320 Speaker 1: form factor that slim, that could still hold all the 706 00:43:46,360 --> 00:43:50,640 Speaker 1: components necessary to be a good computer. Then there are 707 00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:57,080 Speaker 1: other I've designs that didn't get so much so many accolades. 708 00:43:57,120 --> 00:43:59,759 Speaker 1: I guess I should say, like the Apple TV S 709 00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:03,200 Speaker 1: he remote, the first generation. I don't know if you've 710 00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:07,000 Speaker 1: seen these the the remotes, the first generation remotes were 711 00:44:08,040 --> 00:44:15,000 Speaker 1: they had black buttons on a black remote, which means 712 00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:18,239 Speaker 1: that if you were watching television in a dim room. 713 00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:20,400 Speaker 1: Let's say that you've got the lights turned down, the 714 00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:22,759 Speaker 1: shades are pulled because you want to be able to 715 00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:26,680 Speaker 1: view your o lead screen and see it in vibrant color. 716 00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:30,239 Speaker 1: Suddenly you can't find the remote because it's black on black. 717 00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:33,960 Speaker 1: It's like spinal tap had created a remote control. Or 718 00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:37,160 Speaker 1: then there was the Magic mouse to this one also 719 00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:40,560 Speaker 1: was a design that a lot of people kind of 720 00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:45,719 Speaker 1: joked about because the Magic mouse, too was it was 721 00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:48,080 Speaker 1: a wireless mouse and you would charge it by plugging 722 00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:52,480 Speaker 1: it into a cable. But the port for the charging 723 00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:56,440 Speaker 1: cable was on the underside of the mouse, So I mean, 724 00:44:56,480 --> 00:44:57,960 Speaker 1: if you wanted to charge your mouth, you had to 725 00:44:57,960 --> 00:45:00,360 Speaker 1: turn it on its side or or flip it upside 726 00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:04,080 Speaker 1: down to plug it in. And it moreover, mint you 727 00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:07,120 Speaker 1: could not use the mouse while you were charging it, 728 00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:09,400 Speaker 1: right there was no way because the cable would be 729 00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:11,919 Speaker 1: in the way. You could not use it and charge 730 00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:14,280 Speaker 1: it at the same time. And a lot of people said, 731 00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:17,640 Speaker 1: that makes no sense, that is a huge design flaw. 732 00:45:18,239 --> 00:45:21,000 Speaker 1: Then of course, there was the cylindrical Mac Pro that 733 00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:25,520 Speaker 1: came out in UH, and like the power Cube before it, 734 00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:28,359 Speaker 1: I talked about that a couple of episodes, the Mac 735 00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:32,080 Speaker 1: Pro was a revolutionary design. I mean, I guess you 736 00:45:32,080 --> 00:45:34,760 Speaker 1: could say it was literally revolutionary because it's a cylinder 737 00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:37,839 Speaker 1: and you know, you could revolve around it. Never mind, 738 00:45:38,239 --> 00:45:41,440 Speaker 1: but it got some great initial reviews because it really 739 00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:44,520 Speaker 1: was the most powerful Mac produced up to that point. 740 00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:48,880 Speaker 1: But over time some of the shine faded from the 741 00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:52,680 Speaker 1: perception of the Mac Pro. UH. Like the Cube before it, 742 00:45:52,840 --> 00:45:58,560 Speaker 1: the cylindrical power Mac lacked the capacity for internal expansion. 743 00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:01,200 Speaker 1: It had a lot of parts so you could do 744 00:46:01,239 --> 00:46:05,560 Speaker 1: external expansion, but you couldn't upgrade the guts of the 745 00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:09,440 Speaker 1: device because of the the decisions that had to be 746 00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:13,400 Speaker 1: made in order to make this cylindrical computer possible. And 747 00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:17,560 Speaker 1: eventually some folks would derisively call this the Mac Pro 748 00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:21,839 Speaker 1: trash can I honestly think that's going too far. Some 749 00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:24,600 Speaker 1: of my colleagues might disagree with me. I think Matt 750 00:46:24,680 --> 00:46:29,520 Speaker 1: Frederick Tyler Clang both had strong opinions about this, but 751 00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:33,120 Speaker 1: they they're also Mac devotes because they worked in video 752 00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:36,680 Speaker 1: production for so long and Max were really important in 753 00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:39,760 Speaker 1: that field. But yeah, that one didn't go over so well. 754 00:46:40,120 --> 00:46:43,000 Speaker 1: But um, but you know, you're always going to have 755 00:46:43,080 --> 00:46:45,440 Speaker 1: some misses along with the hits. And the thing is, 756 00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:49,160 Speaker 1: Johnny ives hits were out of the park, like, they 757 00:46:49,160 --> 00:46:53,480 Speaker 1: weren't just a decent hit, they were grand slam home runs. 758 00:46:54,239 --> 00:46:56,400 Speaker 1: As for Apple, what's it going to be like without 759 00:46:56,480 --> 00:47:00,640 Speaker 1: Johnny I've Some would say that I've had ceased really 760 00:47:00,680 --> 00:47:03,160 Speaker 1: being a prominent force and Apple a few years ago, 761 00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:07,000 Speaker 1: even before he stepped down. So there's an argument to 762 00:47:07,080 --> 00:47:09,239 Speaker 1: be made that it's probably not going to be that 763 00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:13,040 Speaker 1: much different than the Apple we're seeing right now. There 764 00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:17,239 Speaker 1: are also plenty of talented, brilliant designers who work at Apple. Like, 765 00:47:18,040 --> 00:47:19,719 Speaker 1: you know, it's not like Johnny i was the one 766 00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:24,640 Speaker 1: and only. The process of design is different. Design no 767 00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:28,160 Speaker 1: longer holds the prominent spot it did back when Steve 768 00:47:28,239 --> 00:47:34,520 Speaker 1: Jobs and Johnny I've were kind of defining Apple's company process. 769 00:47:34,560 --> 00:47:37,840 Speaker 1: But again, it's not like the design department has just 770 00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:42,399 Speaker 1: tumbleweeds floating through. It may well be that Apple's most 771 00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:45,719 Speaker 1: breathtaking successful product has yet to come. We have to 772 00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:49,040 Speaker 1: wait and see the company is working on some stuff 773 00:47:49,719 --> 00:47:53,279 Speaker 1: that's really exciting like mixed reality headwear. And you know, 774 00:47:53,600 --> 00:47:56,279 Speaker 1: maybe one day we will see the Apple car. So 775 00:47:56,840 --> 00:48:01,440 Speaker 1: I wouldn't write it off, but it is it's impossible 776 00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:04,760 Speaker 1: to say. It's impossible to deny the fact that Johnny 777 00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:10,160 Speaker 1: I've and Steve Jobs together defined the aesthetic at Apple 778 00:48:10,640 --> 00:48:16,600 Speaker 1: for a stretch of incredible years. Whether that aesthetic continues 779 00:48:17,360 --> 00:48:20,640 Speaker 1: or if it transforms, we'll have to see. Um. I 780 00:48:20,680 --> 00:48:24,880 Speaker 1: suspect we will start to see it slowly gravitate into 781 00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:28,719 Speaker 1: some other design aesthetic. But I think there's going to 782 00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:33,080 Speaker 1: be a piece of I've at Apple for the foreseeable future. Anyway, 783 00:48:33,120 --> 00:48:36,520 Speaker 1: that concludes these episodes about Johnny I've. Hope you enjoyed them. 784 00:48:36,520 --> 00:48:38,719 Speaker 1: Please reach out to me if you have suggestions for 785 00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:41,200 Speaker 1: future episodes of tech Stuff, and I'll talk to you 786 00:48:41,239 --> 00:48:50,600 Speaker 1: again really soon. Text Stuff is an I Heart Radio production. 787 00:48:50,840 --> 00:48:53,640 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the i 788 00:48:53,760 --> 00:48:57,000 Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to 789 00:48:57,040 --> 00:49:00,440 Speaker 1: your favorite shows. Eight