WEBVTT - The Queen of Romance

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Noble Blood, a production of iHeartRadio and Grim

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<v Speaker 1>and Mild from Aaron Mankie Listener discretion advised. The year

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<v Speaker 1>eighteen o eight, the setting Regency, England. There we meet

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<v Speaker 1>a man called Sir Giles Staverlely, a gambling addict who

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<v Speaker 1>attempted to win back all he had by betting his

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<v Speaker 1>daughter Serena's hand in marriage and betting her eighty thousand

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<v Speaker 1>pound trust fund, but he lost once again, and unable

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<v Speaker 1>to face his daughter, he instigated and lost a duel

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<v Speaker 1>on purpose, ultimately killing himself. This left Serena's fate in

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<v Speaker 1>the hands of the man her father lost to, Lord

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<v Speaker 1>Justin Vulcan, who she'd been told was simply the worst

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<v Speaker 1>sort of rake. She swore she could never fall in

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<v Speaker 1>love with a man like Lord Vulcan, but after he

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<v Speaker 1>invited her to come live at his estate, Man Drake,

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<v Speaker 1>the two come to form an unlikely bond, but they

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<v Speaker 1>also had to contend with Justin's scheming mother, highwaymen, gamblers,

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<v Speaker 1>and smugglers before the two of them could admit their feelings.

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<v Speaker 1>In case you haven't realized, that is, of course all

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<v Speaker 1>a work of fiction, a historical romance written long before

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<v Speaker 1>any of the Bridgeton's stepped into their semi anachronistic shoes.

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<v Speaker 1>Published in nineteen forty nine, A Hazard of Hearts was

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<v Speaker 1>just one of over seven hundred works published by Dame

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<v Speaker 1>Barbara Cartland, otherwise known as the Queen of Romance. Her

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<v Speaker 1>work earned her many fans of all ages, including a

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<v Speaker 1>young Diana Spencer, who would eventually become both the Princess

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<v Speaker 1>of Wales and Barbara's own step granddaughter. Despite not being

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<v Speaker 1>born with a title, Barbara would run in noble circles

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<v Speaker 1>her entire life, including her connections to her dearest friend,

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<v Speaker 1>Lord Mountbatten of Burma, Prince Philip's uncle, and other men

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<v Speaker 1>of high birth that she would allege were the potential

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<v Speaker 1>true fathers of her daughter. To this day, Barbara continues

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<v Speaker 1>to hold her spot as the fifth most translated author worldwide,

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<v Speaker 1>thanks to the success of novels like A Hazard of Hearts,

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<v Speaker 1>as well as The Cruel Count, The Angel and the Rake,

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<v Speaker 1>and my personal favorite title, The Marquise Who Hated Women,

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<v Speaker 1>all featuring fantastically illustrated covers that are, as best as

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<v Speaker 1>I can describe them, buttoned up bodice rippers. More on

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<v Speaker 1>the purity later, though some of those novels were even

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<v Speaker 1>adapted into films. A Hazard of Hearts was made for

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<v Speaker 1>television in nineteen eighty seven, featuring a fresh faced Helena

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<v Speaker 1>Bonham Carter in one of her first major roles as

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<v Speaker 1>the unlucky Angenoux Serena. A print ad for the film

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<v Speaker 1>read quote, he captured her body with force, he freed

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<v Speaker 1>her soul with passion. That is more often and not

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<v Speaker 1>a general theme in Barbara's novels. An innocent girl is

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<v Speaker 1>caught up in a dastardly scheme, but she ultimately makes

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<v Speaker 1>a good man out of a not so good one.

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<v Speaker 1>Barbara certainly did not invent the tropes of the romance novel,

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<v Speaker 1>but it's not a stretch to say she defined them

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<v Speaker 1>for an era. Still, we can't say her extensive collection

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<v Speaker 1>is exclusively one note. Heroiness also include a professional figure skater,

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<v Speaker 1>a quote lovely young gang leader, and a Scottish spy

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<v Speaker 1>in the French court watching over a young Mary Stuart,

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<v Speaker 1>which should delight any of our listeners over on Patreon

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<v Speaker 1>who have been listening to our recap of the television

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<v Speaker 1>show Rain. As time went.

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<v Speaker 2>On and Barbara continued to produce more and more books

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<v Speaker 2>every year. She became a British culture figure, frequently showing

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<v Speaker 2>up in print and on television to discuss her thoughts

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<v Speaker 2>on love and morality in an extensive and iconic pink wardrobe.

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<v Speaker 2>Barbara may have been the Queen of Romance, but as

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<v Speaker 2>we will learn from her once fan Diana, fairytale stories,

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<v Speaker 2>especially when they involve nobles, don't always follow a simple

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<v Speaker 2>plot structure. I'm Dana Schwartz and this is noble blood.

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<v Speaker 2>Gwenn Robbins authorized biography of Barbara Cartland begins by making

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<v Speaker 2>something very clear. Quote. Firstly, she is a direct descendant

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<v Speaker 2>of the oldest Saxon family in existence. End quote. Barbara's

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<v Speaker 2>mother's ancestor was apparently Thomas de Scovenhol, the High sh

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<v Speaker 2>Sheriff of Devonshire thirty two years before the Norman conquest.

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<v Speaker 2>From him, you can trace the family lineage directly to

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<v Speaker 2>Mary Hamilton Scobel aka Polly, Barbara's mother. The family faced

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<v Speaker 2>major upheaval shortly after Barbara was born in nineteen oh one.

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<v Speaker 2>Her paternal grandparents, the Cartlands, had been suddenly bankrupted when

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<v Speaker 2>their bank surprise called in immediate payment on a twenty

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<v Speaker 2>five thousand pound loan that Barbara's grandfather, James, had taken out.

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<v Speaker 2>That very weekend, Barbara's parents left young Barbara to go

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<v Speaker 2>visit the distraught grandparents, inviting them to come stay with

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<v Speaker 2>the young family. The elder Cartlands refused to leave their home,

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<v Speaker 2>and James told his daughter in law that he would

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<v Speaker 2>see her on Monday. On Sunday morning, James Cartland shot himself.

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<v Speaker 2>His death left his debt to his son, Barbara's father, Bertie.

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<v Speaker 2>Polly and Bertie's home, Bobrooke, had been verbally given to

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<v Speaker 2>them by James, but as the title deeds were not

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<v Speaker 2>in their name, the bank said the house was to

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<v Speaker 2>be surrendered to pay the overdue loan. The house was

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<v Speaker 2>put up for sale, along with nearly all of the

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<v Speaker 2>belongings in it. Poor I may be, but common I

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<v Speaker 2>am not, Barbara's mother, Polly declared. While her husband and

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<v Speaker 2>his mother were said to be incapacitated by the circumstances,

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<v Speaker 2>Polly found a new home for the family to rent

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<v Speaker 2>on their three hundred pounds a year income. Bertie, a

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<v Speaker 2>former officer of the British Army, naturally did not work

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<v Speaker 2>as would be completely unbefitting of a gentleman of the age,

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<v Speaker 2>and so that money came from allowances from their respective families.

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<v Speaker 2>For forty pounds a year, they moved into a country

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<v Speaker 2>home in Worcestershire, fit with six bedrooms, a tennis court, stables,

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<v Speaker 2>and four acres of overgrown gardens. That was where Barbara

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<v Speaker 2>grew up, and those gardens were where she first invented

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<v Speaker 2>new worlds. Quote. I never drive through Worcestershire in the

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<v Speaker 2>spring without the memory of our garden like a pink

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<v Speaker 2>and white fairyland, she would reflect as an adult. She

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<v Speaker 2>recalls listening to the trees and hearing the fairies moving

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<v Speaker 2>about inside, and she was sure that she saw wings

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<v Speaker 2>among the flowers. Her first experience with literature was with

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<v Speaker 2>the novels she could find in her father's study, mainly Dickens,

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<v Speaker 2>and her mother then began to nurture Barbara's love of

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<v Speaker 2>stories by reading her fantasy books. Upon her mother's death

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<v Speaker 2>years later, Barbara would find amongst the piles of paper

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<v Speaker 2>her mother had kept the very first short story she

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<v Speaker 2>had ever written at five and a half years old.

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<v Speaker 2>But sudden bankruptcy wouldn't be the only upheaval in young

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<v Speaker 2>Barbara's life. When it became obvious in nineteen fourteen that

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<v Speaker 2>the country was to go to war with Germany, Bertie

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<v Speaker 2>was called up to serve. As he was stationed in

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<v Speaker 2>different parts of England, the family moved around to stay

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<v Speaker 2>with friends near him. In nineteen seventeen, Bertie was killed

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<v Speaker 2>in action. Polly was now a widow and a single

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<v Speaker 2>mother to three children, Barbara and her two younger brothers.

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<v Speaker 2>Barbara recalls that her mother adopted a stricter sense of

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<v Speaker 2>discipline during that time, but it was always clear that

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<v Speaker 2>she did everything out of love. Polly had also been

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<v Speaker 2>something of a surrogate mother to her husband, who needed

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<v Speaker 2>motivation and guidance throughout his lia adult life, and she

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<v Speaker 2>was determined that her own children would be self sufficient.

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<v Speaker 2>Barbara would later reflect quote, Mummy lit a flame in

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<v Speaker 2>all three of us that was to burn brighter year

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<v Speaker 2>by year. She made us believe in ourselves and our capabilities.

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<v Speaker 2>She made us see that anything was possible if we

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<v Speaker 2>really wanted it and worked hard enough. Shortly after her

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<v Speaker 2>father's death, Barbara turned eighteen and left school. During her

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<v Speaker 2>school years, her love of storytelling only grew. She discovered

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<v Speaker 2>the romance novels of ethel M. Dell, BERTA. Ruck, and

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<v Speaker 2>Eleanor Glynn, who was notably quite the scandalous writer of

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<v Speaker 2>her time. It was actually Dell's influence in particular that

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<v Speaker 2>would have the greatest impact on Barbara's career. Barbara's biographer writes,

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<v Speaker 2>Barbara really believed all heroes should be tall, silent men,

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<v Speaker 2>seething with burning passions, but passions so controlled that one

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<v Speaker 2>was not aware of them until they broke down under

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<v Speaker 2>an overwhelming love. Her leading ladies, on the other hand,

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<v Speaker 2>should be quote soft, sweet, easily frightened, yet longing to

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<v Speaker 2>be dominated by a strong and masculine man. Barbara was

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<v Speaker 2>a so called plain child, so much so that apparently

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<v Speaker 2>other mothers pitied Polly, but by this time she had

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<v Speaker 2>blossomed into something of a classic leading lady herself. Barbara

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<v Speaker 2>received her first proposal this summer after school, on holiday

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<v Speaker 2>with her family on the Isle of Wight. He was

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<v Speaker 2>a colonel over forty years old with a red handlebar mustache.

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<v Speaker 2>Barbara wanted absolutely nothing to do with him, rushing to

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<v Speaker 2>her mother to ask for help. Polly told her daughter,

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<v Speaker 2>you must learn to look after yourself. It's harsh advice,

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<v Speaker 2>but falls in line with Polly's desay desire to instill

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<v Speaker 2>self sufficiency and tenacity within her daughter. Still, when another

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<v Speaker 2>elderly married this time man, tried to make advances on

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<v Speaker 2>Barbara that same summer, he was met with Polly's fury.

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<v Speaker 2>This clown, in turn asked out Polly instead. When asked

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<v Speaker 2>if any of her suitors that summer attempted to kiss her,

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<v Speaker 2>Barbara responded, certainly not. We were not mauled in those days.

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<v Speaker 2>Our innocence protected us. I was quite determined that the

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<v Speaker 2>only man who would ever be allowed to kiss me

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<v Speaker 2>on the lips was the one I would marry. Barbara

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<v Speaker 2>would have plenty more marriage candidates to consider when she

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<v Speaker 2>moved to London with the family after that summer break.

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<v Speaker 2>She had a small budget for clothes provided by her mother,

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<v Speaker 2>and she began to experiment with fashionable makeup and hair

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<v Speaker 2>of the time, all in service of her coming out

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<v Speaker 2>in society, and Barbara was a hit. Courting in nineteen

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<v Speaker 2>twenty's London mainly consisted of dinner and dancing, but it

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<v Speaker 2>was improper for a man and woman to dine alone together,

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<v Speaker 2>so the woman would have dinner at home while the

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<v Speaker 2>man dined at his social club before picking up his

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<v Speaker 2>date later. Once the dancing was done, a taxi would

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<v Speaker 2>be called. The driver would stop for a coffee at

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<v Speaker 2>the green painted stand at the corner of Hyde Park

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<v Speaker 2>while the young couple sat in the back seat. This

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<v Speaker 2>was all a dance of its own. The cab drivers

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<v Speaker 2>would all sit together and chat and play cards while

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<v Speaker 2>the couples in their back seats scored some convenient alone time.

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<v Speaker 2>Barbara often sat in these back seats, remembering the quote

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<v Speaker 2>delicious feeling of anticipation, but mind out of the gutter.

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<v Speaker 2>Which she was anticipating was a potential proposal, or just

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<v Speaker 2>to see if her date would attempt a kiss in

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<v Speaker 2>the backseat of one of those cabs. Barbara did accept

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<v Speaker 2>a proposal from a gentleman named Dick Usher, a young

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<v Speaker 2>officer Polly. Her mother had advised her to wait a

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<v Speaker 2>month to announce the engagement in the Times, and it

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<v Speaker 2>was a good thing she did, because Barbara had a

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<v Speaker 2>question for her mother, How does one have a baby?

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<v Speaker 1>She asked.

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<v Speaker 2>It had been nagging at her and it was never

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<v Speaker 2>taught at the girls' schools she attended. Barbara had thought

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<v Speaker 2>it had something to do with a man kissing a

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<v Speaker 2>woman's neck, because one of the novels she read contained

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<v Speaker 2>the line quote he kissed her neck passionately, and she

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<v Speaker 2>knew what he meant. When Barbara's mother told her how

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<v Speaker 2>things actually worked, Barbara was so horrified that she broke

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<v Speaker 2>off the engagement. Barbara would go on to say that

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<v Speaker 2>throughout her life she never enjoyed being touched or kissed

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<v Speaker 2>unless it was by someone she really loved. Two nights

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<v Speaker 2>after she broke the news to Dick, they ran into

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<v Speaker 2>each other at a party, and, feeling sorry for him,

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<v Speaker 2>Barbara agreed to talk. They took a taxi to the

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<v Speaker 2>stall at Hyde Park, where Dick proceeded to take out

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<v Speaker 2>a revolver and he declared, unless you marry me, I

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<v Speaker 2>will shoot myself. This was, believe it or not, Barbara's

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<v Speaker 2>second incident with a loaded gun in her young life,

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<v Speaker 2>after another army officer had attempted to flirt with her

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<v Speaker 2>by showing off his weapon and nearly shooting her after

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<v Speaker 2>incorrectly believing the gun had no bullets left. And to

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<v Speaker 2>be clear, I promise these are not innu windows. Barbara

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<v Speaker 2>was able to talk Dick down far enough that he

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<v Speaker 2>got tired and agreed to take Barbara home, where she

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<v Speaker 2>rushed through the front door and up to her mother's bedroom.

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<v Speaker 2>Dick later wrote a letter to Polly describing his agony.

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<v Speaker 2>If only I weren't cursed with such a big, big love,

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<v Speaker 2>it might be easier. But you know that I just

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<v Speaker 2>worship Barbara with my whole heart and soul and body.

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<v Speaker 2>That to lose her is worse than a million times.

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<v Speaker 2>The torture of the damned life was certainly providing Barbara

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<v Speaker 2>with plenty of material for her future career. In nineteen twenty,

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<v Speaker 2>Barbara declared to her family one morning over breakfast that

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<v Speaker 2>she was going to write a novel. They laughed, You'll

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<v Speaker 2>never finish it, they said. She started right away. Once

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<v Speaker 2>she had a few chapters completed, she showed them to

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<v Speaker 2>her mother, Polly, who offered both criticism and compliments. Polly

0:16:59.560 --> 0:17:03.120
<v Speaker 2>asked a writer friend over for lunch, where she in

0:17:03.160 --> 0:17:07.159
<v Speaker 2>turn asked Barbara to read her draft out loud, A

0:17:07.200 --> 0:17:12.160
<v Speaker 2>personal nightmare for many writers, especially a writer just starting out,

0:17:12.600 --> 0:17:16.520
<v Speaker 2>but it was apparently a breeze for Barbara. It's very good,

0:17:16.680 --> 0:17:21.080
<v Speaker 2>the writer told her. Finish it. Barbara spent three months

0:17:21.119 --> 0:17:25.400
<v Speaker 2>doing just that. Where many writers also struggle to find

0:17:25.520 --> 0:17:30.320
<v Speaker 2>their voice, Barbara had internalized her beloved romance novels and

0:17:30.400 --> 0:17:33.439
<v Speaker 2>knew exactly what she wanted to say and how to

0:17:33.520 --> 0:17:37.400
<v Speaker 2>say it. Their eyes met reads one of the closing

0:17:37.560 --> 0:17:41.199
<v Speaker 2>lines of that first novel. Each was conscious of the

0:17:41.240 --> 0:17:45.680
<v Speaker 2>flame of love and desire within the other explanations words

0:17:45.800 --> 0:17:51.840
<v Speaker 2>were unnecessary. Barbara called the book Jigsaw and dedicated it

0:17:51.880 --> 0:17:56.359
<v Speaker 2>to Polly. It cost seven shillings and sixpence and it

0:17:56.440 --> 0:18:02.280
<v Speaker 2>became a minor sensation almost immediately. Jigsaw tells the story

0:18:02.359 --> 0:18:05.840
<v Speaker 2>of the innocent but enchanting Mona, who ends up in

0:18:05.920 --> 0:18:10.439
<v Speaker 2>a love triangle with a sensible, strong willed duke and

0:18:10.600 --> 0:18:15.320
<v Speaker 2>a dark and handsome stranger. Mona ultimately chooses the duke

0:18:15.760 --> 0:18:23.679
<v Speaker 2>as goodness prevails over temptation. This is a good moment

0:18:23.760 --> 0:18:27.360
<v Speaker 2>to talk about the tropes of Barbara's writing. In her

0:18:27.440 --> 0:18:32.600
<v Speaker 2>own words quote, there are two means. One is the impatient,

0:18:32.840 --> 0:18:38.200
<v Speaker 2>rather aggressive crusader, sometimes overpowersing with a tendency to fight

0:18:38.320 --> 0:18:41.240
<v Speaker 2>violently for what I believe is right. And the other

0:18:41.359 --> 0:18:46.240
<v Speaker 2>image I have of myself is sweet, soft, gentle, understanding,

0:18:46.640 --> 0:18:51.199
<v Speaker 2>perceptive and very feminine. Longing to be protected by a

0:18:51.320 --> 0:18:56.480
<v Speaker 2>strong masculine man. It is a kind of idealistic, mental

0:18:56.600 --> 0:19:01.480
<v Speaker 2>and spiritual virginity which I have given my heroines, and

0:19:01.640 --> 0:19:07.280
<v Speaker 2>which I have always had myself. End quote Mona Or

0:19:07.560 --> 0:19:11.560
<v Speaker 2>Barbara has an angel and a devil, so to speak

0:19:11.640 --> 0:19:15.440
<v Speaker 2>on her shoulder in Jigsaw, the strong but silent Duke

0:19:15.560 --> 0:19:20.639
<v Speaker 2>Peter and the exciting but dangerous Alec. It brings to

0:19:20.720 --> 0:19:25.800
<v Speaker 2>mind the Madonna horror complex, which sees women as either

0:19:26.040 --> 0:19:31.840
<v Speaker 2>saintly or degenerate, never in between. Barbara's heroines are always

0:19:32.000 --> 0:19:37.000
<v Speaker 2>pure madonnas who seek stability with Peters, and they must

0:19:37.119 --> 0:19:41.520
<v Speaker 2>reject their inner whore who is driving them toward an

0:19:41.560 --> 0:19:46.080
<v Speaker 2>alec or. Sometimes the heroine is so saintly that the

0:19:46.200 --> 0:19:50.360
<v Speaker 2>leading man will overcome his degeneracy in order to devote

0:19:50.400 --> 0:19:54.000
<v Speaker 2>himself to her. This episode isn't a book report, but

0:19:54.119 --> 0:19:57.560
<v Speaker 2>these themes, especially with regards to the way she frames

0:19:57.600 --> 0:20:02.000
<v Speaker 2>and portrays women and female desire, I think is important

0:20:02.359 --> 0:20:05.439
<v Speaker 2>when we think about how much Barbara has stated that

0:20:05.480 --> 0:20:11.520
<v Speaker 2>her heroines represent herself and her morals. Back to Jigsaw's success.

0:20:12.200 --> 0:20:17.080
<v Speaker 2>Now a minor celebrity, Barbara was becoming even more popular

0:20:17.160 --> 0:20:20.320
<v Speaker 2>in the London social scene than she had already been.

0:20:20.840 --> 0:20:23.720
<v Speaker 2>Her dance card was always full, and she was always

0:20:23.760 --> 0:20:27.480
<v Speaker 2>present in the gossip columns of magazines like Tattler and

0:20:27.600 --> 0:20:32.440
<v Speaker 2>other newspapers. At the same time, Barbara had already been

0:20:32.640 --> 0:20:38.520
<v Speaker 2>secretly writing four gossip columns, gathering tips from her society circles,

0:20:38.880 --> 0:20:43.800
<v Speaker 2>and she would continue that secret career four years. Can

0:20:43.960 --> 0:20:50.160
<v Speaker 2>someone say, Lady Whistle down? These social circles contained various

0:20:50.400 --> 0:20:55.560
<v Speaker 2>lords and ladies, earls and countesses, and a young Winston Churchill,

0:20:55.600 --> 0:20:58.920
<v Speaker 2>who Barbara struck up a friendship with. Barbara would get

0:20:58.920 --> 0:21:02.679
<v Speaker 2>further inspiration for her leading men when she met the

0:21:02.840 --> 0:21:08.320
<v Speaker 2>Duke of Sutherland. He, like most men Barbara encountered, also

0:21:08.480 --> 0:21:10.959
<v Speaker 2>fell in love with her, but there was the issue

0:21:11.000 --> 0:21:15.639
<v Speaker 2>of his already having a wife, and his advances were rejected.

0:21:16.640 --> 0:21:21.720
<v Speaker 2>When Barbara did decide to marry, it was proposal number fifty.

0:21:22.480 --> 0:21:28.359
<v Speaker 2>Alexander George mccorkadale was not one of Barbara's brooding dukes. Rather,

0:21:28.440 --> 0:21:32.240
<v Speaker 2>he was a British Army officer from Scotland and heir

0:21:32.359 --> 0:21:36.480
<v Speaker 2>to a printing fortune. He was, however, said to have

0:21:36.680 --> 0:21:40.960
<v Speaker 2>looked the part of a Cartland hero, dark haired, strong,

0:21:41.160 --> 0:21:45.080
<v Speaker 2>and yes, of course brooding. The couple were married on

0:21:45.160 --> 0:21:50.280
<v Speaker 2>April twenty third, nineteen twenty seven. For the wedding, Barbara

0:21:50.400 --> 0:21:55.240
<v Speaker 2>wore the first tool dress that society had seen since

0:21:55.280 --> 0:22:00.960
<v Speaker 2>World War One, made by the English designer extraordinary Norman Hartnell,

0:22:01.320 --> 0:22:08.240
<v Speaker 2>but designed by Barbara herself. Years later, Barbara would write

0:22:08.320 --> 0:22:13.040
<v Speaker 2>an article on honeymoons for The Evening News, and although

0:22:13.080 --> 0:22:17.240
<v Speaker 2>she describes a fictitious young bride in the article, there

0:22:17.400 --> 0:22:21.520
<v Speaker 2>was truth to her own experience quote. She the fictional

0:22:21.560 --> 0:22:26.040
<v Speaker 2>bride dreamed of a strong, silent cave man, a man

0:22:26.119 --> 0:22:29.400
<v Speaker 2>of deeds but a few words, a man who, underneath

0:22:29.480 --> 0:22:34.399
<v Speaker 2>a deep reserve, was passionate, commanding, conquering. Finally, she thought

0:22:34.440 --> 0:22:38.320
<v Speaker 2>she had found that in her husband. She mistook inertia

0:22:38.480 --> 0:22:44.160
<v Speaker 2>for reserve, lack of interest for silent strength, and inexperience

0:22:44.359 --> 0:22:50.920
<v Speaker 2>for hidden passion. She was miserably disappointed. Barbara's marriage would

0:22:51.000 --> 0:22:55.439
<v Speaker 2>last only five years, but it brought the couple a baby, girl,

0:22:55.920 --> 0:23:01.080
<v Speaker 2>Rain mccorkidale. In September of nineteen twenty nine, Barbara's mother

0:23:01.160 --> 0:23:04.239
<v Speaker 2>in law implored her to give up her career and

0:23:04.320 --> 0:23:08.400
<v Speaker 2>stop writing her quote immoral novels, but she had no

0:23:08.480 --> 0:23:12.520
<v Speaker 2>intention of doing that. Not only did Barbara continue her

0:23:12.600 --> 0:23:16.879
<v Speaker 2>literary career as a mother, but she took on new ventures,

0:23:17.359 --> 0:23:21.520
<v Speaker 2>including advocating for better public health awareness. After her daughter

0:23:21.680 --> 0:23:27.159
<v Speaker 2>reign inexplicably fell nearly fatally ill, and Barbara also became

0:23:27.240 --> 0:23:33.040
<v Speaker 2>interested in aviation advancements. Particularly, she was interested in recent

0:23:33.160 --> 0:23:37.800
<v Speaker 2>innovations in gliding, and she worked with two inventors to

0:23:37.920 --> 0:23:42.720
<v Speaker 2>deliver the first air mail cross country via glider. When

0:23:42.720 --> 0:23:46.159
<v Speaker 2>the project was complete, it was of course christened the

0:23:46.320 --> 0:23:51.679
<v Speaker 2>Barbara Cartland Glider. Her experiment proved to be essential to

0:23:51.840 --> 0:23:54.840
<v Speaker 2>further designs and had an impact on the air mail

0:23:54.920 --> 0:23:58.520
<v Speaker 2>system during the Second World War, so much so that

0:23:58.600 --> 0:24:02.920
<v Speaker 2>in nineteen eighty four she was awarded the US Bishop

0:24:03.040 --> 0:24:09.760
<v Speaker 2>Wrights Air Industry Award. While Barbara continued to explore her

0:24:09.960 --> 0:24:14.679
<v Speaker 2>new career ventures and interests, she faced difficulties at home.

0:24:15.280 --> 0:24:18.199
<v Speaker 2>In the early nineteen thirties, while her husband was away,

0:24:18.720 --> 0:24:22.560
<v Speaker 2>Barbara came across a series of love letters in another

0:24:22.760 --> 0:24:28.240
<v Speaker 2>woman's handwriting. Instead of confronting her husband directly the next morning,

0:24:28.400 --> 0:24:33.080
<v Speaker 2>she took her findings straight to his parents. Upon returning

0:24:33.200 --> 0:24:36.200
<v Speaker 2>from his trip, her husband went straight to their home

0:24:36.480 --> 0:24:40.480
<v Speaker 2>and refused all requests to see or speak to his wife.

0:24:41.160 --> 0:24:44.159
<v Speaker 2>The social circles Barbara had once been the darling of

0:24:44.640 --> 0:24:48.919
<v Speaker 2>were now beginning to shun her as a divorcee. The

0:24:49.119 --> 0:24:53.680
<v Speaker 2>Matrimonial Causes Act that allowed for either spouse to petition

0:24:53.880 --> 0:24:57.199
<v Speaker 2>for divorce on the basis of adultery had only just

0:24:57.320 --> 0:25:01.040
<v Speaker 2>been adopted in nineteen twenty three, a decade earlier, and

0:25:01.240 --> 0:25:04.960
<v Speaker 2>the upper echelons of British society were never the ones

0:25:05.040 --> 0:25:10.800
<v Speaker 2>to quickly adopt progressive mindsets. The Countess of Pembroke forbade

0:25:10.920 --> 0:25:14.560
<v Speaker 2>Barbara from helping her arrange a charity ball, which was

0:25:14.640 --> 0:25:19.159
<v Speaker 2>ironic considering the Earl of Pembroke had just run away

0:25:19.200 --> 0:25:22.520
<v Speaker 2>with another woman and was at the moment begging his

0:25:22.560 --> 0:25:26.800
<v Speaker 2>wife for a divorce. It should also be noted though

0:25:26.920 --> 0:25:31.439
<v Speaker 2>Barbara may not have been entirely faithful during the marriage either.

0:25:32.080 --> 0:25:34.560
<v Speaker 2>This claim must be taken with a grain of salt,

0:25:34.720 --> 0:25:38.440
<v Speaker 2>as it was reported in The Daily Mail posthumously as

0:25:38.480 --> 0:25:43.040
<v Speaker 2>a conversation that happened off the record, but she allegedly

0:25:43.600 --> 0:25:46.720
<v Speaker 2>told a journalist that she had a number of lovers

0:25:46.960 --> 0:25:51.800
<v Speaker 2>who could even potentially have been Rayne's real father, including

0:25:51.840 --> 0:25:56.600
<v Speaker 2>her prototypical hero, the Duke of Sutherland and Prince George,

0:25:56.680 --> 0:25:59.879
<v Speaker 2>the Duke of Kent. Barbara would go on to have

0:26:00.400 --> 0:26:05.720
<v Speaker 2>two more children, both sons, with a second husband, her

0:26:05.760 --> 0:26:10.800
<v Speaker 2>ex's cousin, Hugh mccorkydale. They had been friends and he

0:26:10.920 --> 0:26:13.760
<v Speaker 2>became something of a rock for Barbara during the years

0:26:14.000 --> 0:26:18.560
<v Speaker 2>following the divorce. Darling, I am getting older, reads a

0:26:18.640 --> 0:26:22.320
<v Speaker 2>letter from Hugh to his future wife. Yet you, the

0:26:22.440 --> 0:26:26.199
<v Speaker 2>loveliest creature God ever made, loves me and wants to

0:26:26.280 --> 0:26:30.359
<v Speaker 2>marry me. It's so wonderful, I can't believe it's true.

0:26:30.480 --> 0:26:34.640
<v Speaker 2>The couple would have twenty seven years together before Hugh

0:26:34.880 --> 0:26:38.399
<v Speaker 2>passed due to a heart condition, but he would be

0:26:38.440 --> 0:26:42.680
<v Speaker 2>the great love of Barbara's life. The couple were married

0:26:43.080 --> 0:26:47.200
<v Speaker 2>in nineteen thirty six, by which point Barbara had begun

0:26:47.240 --> 0:26:51.280
<v Speaker 2>to publish around two novels a year. Throughout all of

0:26:51.320 --> 0:26:54.320
<v Speaker 2>those events I discussed, and all of the events I

0:26:54.400 --> 0:26:58.159
<v Speaker 2>will discuss, it is safe to say that Barbara was

0:26:58.240 --> 0:27:07.080
<v Speaker 2>writing through them. Barbara would continue to publish throughout the

0:27:07.200 --> 0:27:10.680
<v Speaker 2>nineteen forties, but once again she was forced to live

0:27:10.720 --> 0:27:14.359
<v Speaker 2>through a World war, and once again she would lose

0:27:14.520 --> 0:27:18.320
<v Speaker 2>family in the fighting. This time, both of her brothers

0:27:18.760 --> 0:27:23.560
<v Speaker 2>died in Dunkirk. As daily life in London got more perilous,

0:27:23.880 --> 0:27:27.600
<v Speaker 2>Barbara and her children left for Canada at the invitation

0:27:27.760 --> 0:27:31.000
<v Speaker 2>of a friend, but Barbara soon decided she had made

0:27:31.000 --> 0:27:34.040
<v Speaker 2>a mistake and that she and her family should return

0:27:34.080 --> 0:27:37.800
<v Speaker 2>to England, where her husband, Hugh had remained. She wanted

0:27:37.840 --> 0:27:41.520
<v Speaker 2>to help however they could. She would become the chief

0:27:41.640 --> 0:27:45.960
<v Speaker 2>Lady Welfare Officer to the Services in Bedfordshire, which often

0:27:46.000 --> 0:27:49.760
<v Speaker 2>meant improving the lives of local women. Some of her

0:27:49.800 --> 0:27:52.520
<v Speaker 2>aid came in the form of getting the service women

0:27:52.680 --> 0:27:56.800
<v Speaker 2>better material for their clothing, helping them feel more beautiful,

0:27:57.160 --> 0:27:59.400
<v Speaker 2>and some of it came in the form of helping

0:27:59.520 --> 0:28:04.600
<v Speaker 2>local pregnant women or women going through divorces. As the

0:28:04.680 --> 0:28:08.960
<v Speaker 2>only female welfare officer, she was in a unique position

0:28:09.080 --> 0:28:14.600
<v Speaker 2>to understand problems that were often overlooked by men. By

0:28:14.640 --> 0:28:18.159
<v Speaker 2>all accounts, she was excellent at her job, but it

0:28:18.280 --> 0:28:21.920
<v Speaker 2>seems like an odd fit when you consider that Barbara

0:28:22.160 --> 0:28:26.760
<v Speaker 2>publicly stated numerous times that she did not care for

0:28:26.880 --> 0:28:30.840
<v Speaker 2>women in general and had very few women friends in

0:28:30.880 --> 0:28:35.560
<v Speaker 2>her life. As the war ended, Barbara became even more

0:28:35.600 --> 0:28:40.040
<v Speaker 2>devoted to her writing, finishing her thirtieth novel and resuming

0:28:40.080 --> 0:28:44.719
<v Speaker 2>her journalistic career. In nineteen forty eight, inspired by her

0:28:44.800 --> 0:28:50.320
<v Speaker 2>daughter's first extravagant wedding, Barbara responded to a request from

0:28:50.400 --> 0:28:55.200
<v Speaker 2>a woman's magazine that implored her to write a historical romance.

0:28:55.800 --> 0:28:59.360
<v Speaker 2>That book would be Hazard of Hearts, and it would

0:28:59.480 --> 0:29:03.239
<v Speaker 2>change the course of Barbara's career. Until that point, her

0:29:03.280 --> 0:29:07.000
<v Speaker 2>stories had been modern, but the more she researched, the

0:29:07.000 --> 0:29:10.920
<v Speaker 2>more she discovered her love of history. It also didn't

0:29:10.960 --> 0:29:14.720
<v Speaker 2>hurt that one of Barbara's primary values, a woman being

0:29:14.800 --> 0:29:18.760
<v Speaker 2>a virgin, had been even more valuable in the days

0:29:18.800 --> 0:29:23.560
<v Speaker 2>of yore. In nineteen fifty, Barbara and her family moved

0:29:23.680 --> 0:29:28.360
<v Speaker 2>to Camfield Place, a country estate built by Edmund Potter,

0:29:28.720 --> 0:29:33.120
<v Speaker 2>grandfather of Beatrix Potter. Its gardens actually gave birth to

0:29:33.240 --> 0:29:37.440
<v Speaker 2>Peter Rabbit, just as the gardens of Barbara's childhood home

0:29:37.720 --> 0:29:42.280
<v Speaker 2>had been the original source of her imagination. That same year,

0:29:42.480 --> 0:29:47.880
<v Speaker 2>Barbara faced a plagiarism allegation from one of her original inspirations,

0:29:48.200 --> 0:29:54.120
<v Speaker 2>Georgette Hayre Hayer, alleged that Hazard of Hearts replicated character

0:29:54.240 --> 0:29:57.480
<v Speaker 2>names and plot points from a number of her novels,

0:29:57.880 --> 0:30:01.000
<v Speaker 2>but the case never went to court, so we'll never

0:30:01.080 --> 0:30:06.560
<v Speaker 2>know exactly what went down. Over the next decade, Barbara

0:30:06.600 --> 0:30:11.320
<v Speaker 2>would continue to produce an astonishing number of novels, and

0:30:11.440 --> 0:30:14.760
<v Speaker 2>by the sixties there was a devoted market of British

0:30:14.760 --> 0:30:20.440
<v Speaker 2>women eagerly awaiting every publication. By the early seventies, Barbara

0:30:20.480 --> 0:30:25.200
<v Speaker 2>had sold fifty million books. As the decade went on,

0:30:25.440 --> 0:30:30.080
<v Speaker 2>she would produce on average two books a month. Her

0:30:30.120 --> 0:30:34.840
<v Speaker 2>afternoons consisted of dictating her writing to her secretaries. She

0:30:34.880 --> 0:30:40.200
<v Speaker 2>could average seven thousand words in accession, which usually lasted

0:30:40.240 --> 0:30:44.720
<v Speaker 2>a few hours. Her secretaries were not permitted to sneeze

0:30:44.840 --> 0:30:48.360
<v Speaker 2>or cough while Barbara dictated from the couch with a

0:30:48.400 --> 0:30:51.560
<v Speaker 2>hot water bottle at her feet and her dog cuddled

0:30:51.600 --> 0:30:54.880
<v Speaker 2>next to her. This would be her routine for the

0:30:54.920 --> 0:31:01.280
<v Speaker 2>rest of her life. In nineteen seventy six, Barbara's daughter

0:31:01.480 --> 0:31:07.520
<v Speaker 2>Rain married Earl Spencer, the father of Diana. However, when

0:31:07.640 --> 0:31:11.440
<v Speaker 2>Rain fell for the Earl, she was already married with

0:31:11.600 --> 0:31:15.680
<v Speaker 2>four children. It's like one of your books, she apparently

0:31:15.760 --> 0:31:18.760
<v Speaker 2>told her mother. I am wildly in love and there's

0:31:18.840 --> 0:31:22.880
<v Speaker 2>nothing anyone can do about it. Sixteen year old Diana

0:31:23.240 --> 0:31:27.440
<v Speaker 2>had grown up a fan of her new step grandmother's novels,

0:31:27.840 --> 0:31:32.320
<v Speaker 2>and one of the princess's biographies claims that Cartland used

0:31:32.360 --> 0:31:36.640
<v Speaker 2>to send her advanced copies even before they became family.

0:31:37.280 --> 0:31:40.600
<v Speaker 2>There's a really great picture of a young Diana reading

0:31:40.640 --> 0:31:44.480
<v Speaker 2>one Cartland novel while two other books sit on her lap,

0:31:44.720 --> 0:31:47.840
<v Speaker 2>and we can only imagine she's dreaming about her own

0:31:48.040 --> 0:31:52.000
<v Speaker 2>romance one day with a duke, or an earl, or

0:31:52.040 --> 0:31:57.480
<v Speaker 2>even a prince. Rain, as Princess Diana scholars might know,

0:31:58.240 --> 0:32:02.560
<v Speaker 2>was hated by Diana and often referred to by Diana

0:32:02.640 --> 0:32:08.120
<v Speaker 2>and her siblings as Acid Rain. Their relationship was incredibly

0:32:08.240 --> 0:32:11.880
<v Speaker 2>strained for most of her life, although they would mend

0:32:12.000 --> 0:32:18.480
<v Speaker 2>things shortly before Diana's tragic death. Even before Diana became family,

0:32:18.720 --> 0:32:23.720
<v Speaker 2>Barbara had another royal connection, a long intimate friendship with

0:32:23.920 --> 0:32:28.360
<v Speaker 2>Lord Mountbatten of Burma, Prince Philip's uncle, who even helped

0:32:28.360 --> 0:32:31.320
<v Speaker 2>her write one of her romances, Love at the Helm,

0:32:31.720 --> 0:32:37.000
<v Speaker 2>by providing her information from his naval background. Barbara did

0:32:37.040 --> 0:32:41.640
<v Speaker 2>not attend the eventual royal wedding between Diana and Charles,

0:32:42.000 --> 0:32:44.960
<v Speaker 2>but she insists it was not a snub that she

0:32:45.080 --> 0:32:48.080
<v Speaker 2>instead gave up her seat so that her son Ian

0:32:48.200 --> 0:32:52.959
<v Speaker 2>could go instead. Still, Barbara would only gain more tabloid

0:32:52.960 --> 0:32:57.040
<v Speaker 2>attention from her association with the princess at a time

0:32:57.200 --> 0:33:01.040
<v Speaker 2>when her books were already becoming more popular than ever.

0:33:01.720 --> 0:33:05.200
<v Speaker 2>After all, what was Diana but a Cartland character come

0:33:05.240 --> 0:33:09.240
<v Speaker 2>to life, a young woman swept away by a romance

0:33:09.280 --> 0:33:18.000
<v Speaker 2>with a prince. The nineteen sixties saw censorships being lifted

0:33:18.360 --> 0:33:21.920
<v Speaker 2>that allowed for racier material to now be published, but

0:33:22.040 --> 0:33:26.240
<v Speaker 2>a boom of pornography meant that for many the pendulum

0:33:26.320 --> 0:33:30.720
<v Speaker 2>of taste would swing the other way, and publishers saw

0:33:30.760 --> 0:33:36.760
<v Speaker 2>a major market for Barbara's virginal heroines. The debate between

0:33:36.880 --> 0:33:41.680
<v Speaker 2>erotica and romance was best exemplified in a nineteen eighty

0:33:41.720 --> 0:33:46.200
<v Speaker 2>seven TV appearance from Barbara, where she appeared alongside the

0:33:46.240 --> 0:33:52.400
<v Speaker 2>novelist Jackie Collins, whose hit book The stud exemplified for Cartland.

0:33:52.840 --> 0:33:57.840
<v Speaker 2>Everything wrong with romance? It's evil, really, Barbara began, what

0:33:58.320 --> 0:34:02.360
<v Speaker 2>Collins asks, the book books you write quite frankly. Collins

0:34:02.480 --> 0:34:06.080
<v Speaker 2>replies that she doesn't believe there's anything evil about writing

0:34:06.080 --> 0:34:10.520
<v Speaker 2>about sex, something so natural. But Barbara is having none

0:34:10.560 --> 0:34:14.640
<v Speaker 2>of it. Don't you think it has helped perverts? She asks,

0:34:15.080 --> 0:34:20.600
<v Speaker 2>and worries about the book's influence on children. The YouTuber

0:34:20.760 --> 0:34:26.000
<v Speaker 2>Contrapoint in her video on Twilight actually discusses that debate,

0:34:26.440 --> 0:34:31.400
<v Speaker 2>describing it as quote surreal to watch a quote eighty

0:34:31.480 --> 0:34:35.840
<v Speaker 2>year old woman in clown drag lecture an audience about

0:34:35.880 --> 0:34:40.960
<v Speaker 2>sexual purity. Since this is an audio medium, I leave

0:34:41.000 --> 0:34:43.719
<v Speaker 2>it to you to watch the debate for yourself and

0:34:43.840 --> 0:34:48.680
<v Speaker 2>decide if that description is apt. Barbara's crusades in her

0:34:48.760 --> 0:34:52.359
<v Speaker 2>older age didn't just stop at bashing what she saw

0:34:52.440 --> 0:34:58.560
<v Speaker 2>as immoral erotica. She campaigned for purity for women, promoting

0:34:58.719 --> 0:35:02.640
<v Speaker 2>religious morality, as well as writing an article where she

0:35:02.760 --> 0:35:07.120
<v Speaker 2>expressed her worries that books published by gay man's press

0:35:07.239 --> 0:35:12.640
<v Speaker 2>could quote easily pollute children's minds. In response, The Gay

0:35:12.760 --> 0:35:17.040
<v Speaker 2>Times wrote, quote, given the garbage that Cartland turns out,

0:35:17.440 --> 0:35:20.920
<v Speaker 2>I would think that GMP are quite happy to be

0:35:21.320 --> 0:35:27.400
<v Speaker 2>in a different league, youch There's a quote from Cartland

0:35:27.880 --> 0:35:33.120
<v Speaker 2>that's in Robin's biography that reveals a sad truth. Cartland

0:35:33.160 --> 0:35:37.520
<v Speaker 2>says marriage is the best investment that was ever invented

0:35:37.560 --> 0:35:41.960
<v Speaker 2>for women. It's a security against their old age, against

0:35:42.040 --> 0:35:46.960
<v Speaker 2>them being deserted after losing their looks and becoming unattractive.

0:35:47.400 --> 0:35:49.920
<v Speaker 2>To throw away all that when you are young and

0:35:50.040 --> 0:35:55.880
<v Speaker 2>foolish is very reckless end quote. Even as the Sexual

0:35:55.960 --> 0:36:00.120
<v Speaker 2>Revolution and the Equal Rights Amendment began to gain traction,

0:36:00.680 --> 0:36:05.360
<v Speaker 2>Barbara held onto the security of tradition and shamed the

0:36:05.400 --> 0:36:09.200
<v Speaker 2>women who did not. It's incredible in a way that

0:36:09.280 --> 0:36:13.040
<v Speaker 2>a woman who would sell millions of copies of books

0:36:13.440 --> 0:36:17.759
<v Speaker 2>with a sizeable income would still see the greatest security

0:36:17.840 --> 0:36:22.279
<v Speaker 2>in her old age as still being wanted or tolerated

0:36:22.400 --> 0:36:26.360
<v Speaker 2>by a man. While the world was progressing in a

0:36:26.440 --> 0:36:30.640
<v Speaker 2>way that frankly horrified her, Barbara could always write about

0:36:30.680 --> 0:36:35.720
<v Speaker 2>a past she believed was exemplary. In the nineties, Barbara

0:36:35.760 --> 0:36:40.239
<v Speaker 2>published her five hundred and sixty fifth book, breaking the

0:36:40.320 --> 0:36:43.399
<v Speaker 2>record for the greatest number of books ever written by

0:36:43.520 --> 0:36:48.960
<v Speaker 2>British authors. By then, in her nineties, Barbara was still

0:36:49.239 --> 0:36:54.080
<v Speaker 2>churning out novels, and in nineteen ninety one, apparently after

0:36:54.320 --> 0:36:58.400
<v Speaker 2>years of complaining that she never received even a quote

0:36:58.600 --> 0:37:02.680
<v Speaker 2>measly mbe, she was made a Dame for her contribution

0:37:02.880 --> 0:37:06.120
<v Speaker 2>to literature and for her work in the community and

0:37:06.239 --> 0:37:10.439
<v Speaker 2>with charities. In two thousand, at the age of ninety eight,

0:37:10.719 --> 0:37:14.120
<v Speaker 2>Barbara died in her sleep, in her home. Her official

0:37:14.160 --> 0:37:18.200
<v Speaker 2>website states that over her career, she wrote seven hundred

0:37:18.200 --> 0:37:22.200
<v Speaker 2>and twenty three novels. She also left behind a series

0:37:22.280 --> 0:37:26.680
<v Speaker 2>of one hundred and sixty unpublished novels, which were later

0:37:26.760 --> 0:37:31.080
<v Speaker 2>published by her son Ian as the Barbara Cartland Pink Collection.

0:37:32.160 --> 0:37:37.520
<v Speaker 2>Barbara believed in reincarnation and was not afraid of death. Quote.

0:37:37.560 --> 0:37:40.800
<v Speaker 2>I've had a wonderful life with ups and downs, tears

0:37:40.840 --> 0:37:44.840
<v Speaker 2>and laughter, but so much kindness, so much happiness, so

0:37:45.000 --> 0:37:48.399
<v Speaker 2>much love, she told her biographer. How could all that

0:37:48.480 --> 0:37:52.440
<v Speaker 2>be lost? How could the effort, the striving, the sacrifices

0:37:52.600 --> 0:37:56.239
<v Speaker 2>be wasted. I believe my faith will make it all

0:37:56.239 --> 0:38:09.680
<v Speaker 2>come true tomorrow. It's a very romantic thought. That's the

0:38:09.719 --> 0:38:15.160
<v Speaker 2>story of the particular British icon Dame Barbara Cartland. But

0:38:15.320 --> 0:38:19.360
<v Speaker 2>keep listening after a brief sponsor break to hear one

0:38:19.560 --> 0:38:24.320
<v Speaker 2>important story I believe about one of her most important hobbies.

0:38:30.200 --> 0:38:33.560
<v Speaker 2>I could not end this episode without telling you about

0:38:34.080 --> 0:38:39.240
<v Speaker 2>Album of Love Songs, Barbara's record with the Royal Philharmonic.

0:38:40.000 --> 0:38:44.800
<v Speaker 2>Her singing is, let's say, interesting, but the real gems

0:38:44.880 --> 0:38:48.600
<v Speaker 2>of the album are the spoken word tracks, where she

0:38:48.760 --> 0:38:53.160
<v Speaker 2>waxes poetic about all things love. It is really the

0:38:53.239 --> 0:38:55.640
<v Speaker 2>kind of thing you just have to go listen to

0:38:55.760 --> 0:38:58.839
<v Speaker 2>on your own. I could give you my thoughts or

0:38:58.880 --> 0:39:02.320
<v Speaker 2>I could read you. A YouTube comment from noted critic

0:39:02.680 --> 0:39:07.880
<v Speaker 2>Lizzie Allen twenty two eighty four quote, OMG, it doesn't

0:39:07.960 --> 0:39:11.279
<v Speaker 2>get any camper than this. Could not have said it

0:39:11.400 --> 0:39:18.520
<v Speaker 2>better myself. Noble Blood is a production of iHeartRadio and

0:39:18.719 --> 0:39:22.480
<v Speaker 2>Grimm and Mild from Aaron Mankey. Noble Blood is hosted

0:39:22.520 --> 0:39:27.200
<v Speaker 2>by me Danish Forts, with additional writing and researching by

0:39:27.280 --> 0:39:33.320
<v Speaker 2>Hannah Johnston, Hannah Zewick, Courtney Sender, Julia Milani, and Armand Cassam.

0:39:33.880 --> 0:39:37.440
<v Speaker 2>The show is edited and produced by Noemy Griffin and

0:39:37.840 --> 0:39:43.400
<v Speaker 2>rima Il Kali, with supervising producer Josh Thain and executive

0:39:43.440 --> 0:39:47.839
<v Speaker 2>producers Aaron Manky, Alex Williams, and Matt Frederick. Four more

0:39:47.960 --> 0:39:53.719
<v Speaker 2>podcasts from iHeartRadio visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or

0:39:53.840 --> 0:40:27.640
<v Speaker 2>wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Ossssssssssssssss