WEBVTT - Chapter 6 | Something Rotten

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<v Speaker 1>Heads up, this series contains graphic descriptions of violence. That's

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<v Speaker 1>why by Kab will be charged as per your international

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<v Speaker 1>plan to continue.

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<v Speaker 2>Please hold.

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<v Speaker 1>After several of my emails to journalist Tom Mangold went unanswered,

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<v Speaker 1>I found his phone number and gave him a call

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<v Speaker 1>in March of twenty twenty five. Hi is this Tom Mangold?

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<v Speaker 1>I tell him I'm a journalist working on the Jessica

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<v Speaker 1>Current case. Yes, sir, so you did a series of

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<v Speaker 1>stories about it. I say I'm covering how the prosecution's

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<v Speaker 1>case against Quincy Cross seems to be falling apart, and

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<v Speaker 1>that according to emails my team and I have reviewed,

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<v Speaker 1>it's clear he knew that the state's main witness, Victoria Caldwell,

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<v Speaker 1>had recanted parts of the story against Quincy Cross, yet

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<v Speaker 1>he still chose to publish his final piece without any

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<v Speaker 1>mention of her changing narratives and admitted lies. He tells

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<v Speaker 1>me he hasn't seen my emails. Thank you so much, sir. Bye.

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<v Speaker 1>Tom Mangold did write back shortly after we hung up.

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<v Speaker 3>So he emails, Yeah, I have a credits I'm made

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<v Speaker 3>to folk in my computer and I called up my

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<v Speaker 3>producer Rebecca with the update.

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<v Speaker 4>What does he say?

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<v Speaker 1>The email says, Maggie, thanks for your note.

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<v Speaker 5>The Quincy Cross's Innocent movement in quotes has been running

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<v Speaker 5>in Mayfield for many years. People have jumped on and

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<v Speaker 5>off that bandwagon ever since Susan received her reward from

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<v Speaker 5>the State of Kentucky. I suggest you take the time

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<v Speaker 5>and trouble to discuss the case with Bob O'Neil first,

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<v Speaker 5>then go and get the transcripts of the court case

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<v Speaker 5>and read the entire prosecution case. If you sol think

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<v Speaker 5>Cross is innocent, that's your conclusion as a journal.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, Bob O'Neil is the KBI agent who is still

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<v Speaker 1>in touch with Victoria and who declined my interview request.

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<v Speaker 1>I replied to Tom and tell him I actually found

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<v Speaker 1>his suggestion that I hadn't read all the documents patronizing,

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<v Speaker 1>and then I offer him the opportunity to reflect on

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<v Speaker 1>his work twenty years later, to which he shoots back.

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<v Speaker 6>Any publication or broadcast in the United States which infers

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<v Speaker 6>I may have behaved unprofessionally in the current murder will

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<v Speaker 6>of course be instantly sued for both libel, both myself

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<v Speaker 6>and the BBC. Now please don't pester me any further.

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<v Speaker 6>All you batty conspiracy theorists are the same.

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<v Speaker 1>When I was first approached with Quincy Cross's case, many

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<v Speaker 1>of the people fighting on his behalf told me that

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<v Speaker 1>Susan Galbreath had played a key role in Quincy's conviction,

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<v Speaker 1>that an everyday citizen helped craft the theory the prosecution

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<v Speaker 1>used at trial and helped find their most important witness.

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<v Speaker 1>And by Tom Mangled's own reporting, he played a big

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<v Speaker 1>role in Susan's journey from his very first trip to Kentucky.

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<v Speaker 7>We use my room at the somewhat humble Mayfield Super

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<v Speaker 7>eight motel as an office. We lived off toxic coffee,

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<v Speaker 7>fried food, and some smuggled in Sauvignon Blanc. I became

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<v Speaker 7>her news editor. She became my trainee cub reporter. I

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<v Speaker 7>taught her my trade from the bottom up.

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<v Speaker 3>I learned quite a bit from him. I learned how

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<v Speaker 3>to not follow every rumor. I learned better from him

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<v Speaker 3>how to distinguish rumor from fact. But it was a

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<v Speaker 3>hard call in this case. We started a friendship and

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<v Speaker 3>we became a team, and I felt an equal part

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<v Speaker 3>of that team.

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<v Speaker 1>Tom spoke publicly about how there was a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>interest in making a movie about the odd couple who

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<v Speaker 1>helped solve a murder, and according to the emails obtained

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<v Speaker 1>by the Kentucky Innocence Project, Tom was pursuing a movie

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<v Speaker 1>deal until at least twenty eighteen. When Susan Golbreeth died.

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<v Speaker 1>That year, her sister took over her estate for a

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<v Speaker 1>few months. She wrote Tom about Susan's last days and

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<v Speaker 1>about business. She talked about handling any future film deals,

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<v Speaker 1>and Tom told Susan's sister that he would fight to

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<v Speaker 1>keep the project alive, but eventually studios lost interest. That

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<v Speaker 1>was probably for the best, because knowing what we know today,

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<v Speaker 1>it's fair to say they got this whole murder story wrong.

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<v Speaker 1>Tom is ninety years old now. He's had a storied

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<v Speaker 1>career as a war correspondent, an investigative journalist. He's faced

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<v Speaker 1>down known gangsters and heads of state. I'm not looking

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<v Speaker 1>to drag his life's work in the mud, but the

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<v Speaker 1>story of Quincy Cross as the ringleader in this heinous

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<v Speaker 1>crime is simply not born out by the evidence, and

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<v Speaker 1>the main witnesses to this alleged crime are now all

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<v Speaker 1>on the record saying they lied. Perhaps none of This

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<v Speaker 1>is enough for Tom Mangel to say Quincy Cross shouldn't

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<v Speaker 1>be in prison, But if he had agreed to talk

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<v Speaker 1>to me, I would have asked him, shouldn't it take

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<v Speaker 1>more than the word of a few girls or the

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<v Speaker 1>theories of an amateur sleuth for a journalist to make

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<v Speaker 1>such ruinous accusations against everyday citizens. Shouldn't it take more

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<v Speaker 1>for the state to put a man in prison for life,

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<v Speaker 1>to take a mother from her children and a father

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<v Speaker 1>from his family. How far are cops and prosecutors allowed

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<v Speaker 1>to go in their pursuit of justice? And who do

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<v Speaker 1>we hold accountable when their whole case falls apart? These

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<v Speaker 1>are questions that Tom refuses to answer, but that Jeff Burton,

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<v Speaker 1>Tamra Caldwell, and Quincy Cross live with every day.

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<v Speaker 8>For me personally, from two thousand and seven and until now,

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<v Speaker 8>this whole thing is my whole Life's been like an

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<v Speaker 8>everybody experience. I can't even explain, like an emotional fucking

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<v Speaker 8>wreck that I have not been able to overcome.

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<v Speaker 7>No, my trust in people is.

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<v Speaker 9>Like a loved one.

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<v Speaker 4>Now I don't trust anybody.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't trust nobody really, you know, since.

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<v Speaker 9>I've been incarcerated, you know, I've been further educating myself

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<v Speaker 9>on different things, but what I really want.

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<v Speaker 10>To do is start with family business and all they

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<v Speaker 10>care of my family.

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<v Speaker 11>Mostly.

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<v Speaker 10>I'm family oriented.

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<v Speaker 6>I was raised that way.

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<v Speaker 10>So that's what hurts the most out of do in

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<v Speaker 10>prison time for something you didn't do, being away from

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<v Speaker 10>the people that you love.

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<v Speaker 1>And what about Tom's heroine, Susan Galbreath. According to Tom's

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<v Speaker 1>own reporting, she didn't get a triumphant ending. Sure she

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<v Speaker 1>got recognized by the Attorney General's office, but the people

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<v Speaker 1>of Mayfield didn't hold her up as a hero. Susan

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<v Speaker 1>ended up having to carry a gun for her own protection,

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<v Speaker 1>and she even contemplated leaving Mayfield for good, moving back

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<v Speaker 1>to Chicago, but she never did. This is Graves County,

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<v Speaker 1>chapter six, something Rotten. Before telling you what the future

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<v Speaker 1>may hold for Quincy Cross, I'd like to take you

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<v Speaker 1>back one last time to the summer of two thousand

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<v Speaker 1>in Mayfield, Kentucky, because even though I never set out

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<v Speaker 1>to solve Jessica's case, I wanted to at least understand

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<v Speaker 1>how the investigation went so wrong. And in trying to

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<v Speaker 1>answer that question, believe it or not, I found a

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<v Speaker 1>common line of reporting with journalist Tom Mangled. Tom didn't

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<v Speaker 1>just zero in on Quincy Cross. He also went after

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<v Speaker 1>Mayfield law enforcement. Earlier in the season, you heard about

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<v Speaker 1>Tim Fortner, the rookie Mayfield police detective who led and

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<v Speaker 1>bungled the first investigation into Jessica's death. He's the man who,

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<v Speaker 1>according to Jessica's father, said this to his family.

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<v Speaker 12>Told us me and my wife did he had no

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<v Speaker 12>clue what he was doing. He didn't know what he

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<v Speaker 12>was doing.

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<v Speaker 1>But Joe Kern says Fortner didn't just admit incompetence. He

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<v Speaker 1>went on to imply that he'd been set up to fail.

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<v Speaker 12>He said, I don't know what I'm doing. Place I go,

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<v Speaker 12>it's like somebody's already been there before me. That's his words.

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<v Speaker 12>So before his four tenure ended, they promoted him to

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<v Speaker 12>assistant chief. And when he saw my wife at Walmart,

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<v Speaker 12>he saw her and he started crying and he said,

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<v Speaker 12>I'm afraid for my life. And he said, I'm gonna move,

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<v Speaker 12>and he moved to Murray. He moved a few miles

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<v Speaker 12>down the road to another place and got a job there.

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<v Speaker 1>What do you think he was afraid of?

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<v Speaker 12>I don't know who you're afraid of When you're a

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<v Speaker 12>police chief and have a badge and a gun. I

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<v Speaker 12>don't know who you're afraid of. How could you be afraid?

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<v Speaker 1>From what I've been able to gather, one of the

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<v Speaker 1>people Fortner was afraid of was the assistant chief of

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<v Speaker 1>police at the time of Jessica's death, Ronnie Lear. Ronnie

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<v Speaker 1>Leir was the man who appointed Tim Fortner as lead

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<v Speaker 1>detective in the case. Even though Fortner didn't know the

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<v Speaker 1>first thing about investigating a homicide, and even though Fortner

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<v Speaker 1>declined my interview request, I do have him on tape

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<v Speaker 1>talking about his disdain for his former boss.

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<v Speaker 13>What's your opinion of Ronnie Lee right now?

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<v Speaker 1>This is from a two thousand and seven interview with

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<v Speaker 1>the Kentucky Bureau of Investigation or KBI.

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<v Speaker 14>My opinion of Ronnie is that he's which it's the

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<v Speaker 14>same opinion as it has been, that he's the son

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<v Speaker 14>of a itch for even given this to me. Because

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<v Speaker 14>it's been a total nightmare and I've just never done

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<v Speaker 14>anything such as investigated anything like, especially this horrendous.

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<v Speaker 1>Why wouldn't the assistant chief of police set this case

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<v Speaker 1>up for success? It was Mayfield's first murder in more

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<v Speaker 1>than a year. Jessica was a teenager, a new mom,

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<v Speaker 1>and Lear knew Jessica's family. He came up in Mayfield

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<v Speaker 1>with Joe Curran.

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<v Speaker 12>Actually we had been playing basketball together a year or

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<v Speaker 12>so before all of this, and he knew me. He

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<v Speaker 12>knew me for a long time. And I worked at

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<v Speaker 12>the fire department, he worked at the police department, and

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<v Speaker 12>we kind of, you know, see cases together and a

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<v Speaker 12>lot of times they go to it.

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<v Speaker 1>From the second I started investigating this case, I've heard

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<v Speaker 1>Ronnie Lear's name, like in one of my first interviews

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<v Speaker 1>with private investigator Nobel Faulkner.

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<v Speaker 15>Let me tell you something, these police around here are

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<v Speaker 15>so corrupt it's not even funny.

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<v Speaker 1>And Tamra Caldwell, I've been here in his name ever

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<v Speaker 1>since we got to Mayfield in ninety three. Everybody was

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<v Speaker 1>scared to talk about him. Scared, you know, everybody brought

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<v Speaker 1>up his name. He was just known to be corrupt.

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<v Speaker 1>Ronnie Lear is mentioned in records about the case from

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<v Speaker 1>the Kentucky State Police and even the Kentucky Bureau of Investigation.

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<v Speaker 1>Mostly people were saying he's crooked or worse. That's what

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<v Speaker 1>Tim Fortner told the KBI in two thousand and seven.

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<v Speaker 16>And I don't know how.

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<v Speaker 14>It's just my good feeling, but I just feel luck

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<v Speaker 14>in some way. And I'll say it from a long

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<v Speaker 14>time that he's involved in it.

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<v Speaker 13>I've told him a why they're involved in this case?

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<v Speaker 12>Yes, because Mark, Yes?

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<v Speaker 1>Especially why would Tim Fortner believe that, you know?

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<v Speaker 11>Still emotionally is a red hot case in Mayfield.

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<v Speaker 1>Michael Grice served a very short stint as chief for

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<v Speaker 1>the Mayfield Police Department from two thousand and four to

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<v Speaker 1>two thousand and five, years after Ronnie Lear's tenure, Mayfield

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<v Speaker 1>officials hired Grice after searching the country for months. He

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<v Speaker 1>was a law enforcement veteran from Illinois with almost two

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<v Speaker 1>decades of experience. He had legitimacy Mayfield police desperately needed,

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<v Speaker 1>especially after the failure with the Jessica Current investigation.

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<v Speaker 2>When I started there, that was a past issue that

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<v Speaker 2>nobody would talk about, and anybody that had anything to

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<v Speaker 2>do with it denied having anything to do with it.

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<v Speaker 2>It was over time that I got some people to

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<v Speaker 2>tell me, oh, yeah, I was there that night, or

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<v Speaker 2>or I did this, or I did that, But they

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<v Speaker 2>don't want to admit anything to do with the investigation.

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<v Speaker 2>They didn't want to admit to having any part of

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<v Speaker 2>the case itself. Why because it turned into such a shambles.

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<v Speaker 1>After Mayfield detectives bungled the case, Gryce says, the town

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<v Speaker 1>was a buzz with rumors of a police cover up.

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<v Speaker 1>He spoke to my producer, Rebecca, there was.

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<v Speaker 11>All kinds of stories going round at the time, and

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<v Speaker 11>just nothing good. Nothing good for the Mayfield.

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<v Speaker 1>Police Department who was telling Bee's stories general.

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<v Speaker 11>Public, you know, just not people in the field. You know,

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<v Speaker 11>people would say I heard that. I said, oh, yeah,

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<v Speaker 11>where did you hear that? Well, you know, I'm my

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<v Speaker 11>cousin's friend's uncle. You know, you get down the line

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<v Speaker 11>of things, and there was no finite source that could

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<v Speaker 11>ever be located to say yeah, that's true.

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<v Speaker 1>In listening back to old police interviews from Jessica's case,

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<v Speaker 1>there was a sense around town that the cops had

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<v Speaker 1>something to do with her death.

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<v Speaker 14>Somebody said, it's a police sent them word beause someone

0:15:44.320 --> 0:15:44.600
<v Speaker 14>don't know.

0:15:45.240 --> 0:15:47.720
<v Speaker 8>But mostly it was about that the cops was involved

0:15:47.720 --> 0:15:49.520
<v Speaker 8>in it, that she was messing with one of the cops,

0:15:49.520 --> 0:15:50.480
<v Speaker 8>they got her pregnant.

0:15:50.680 --> 0:15:54.000
<v Speaker 14>There's something in this town somebody knows, and people are

0:15:54.000 --> 0:15:54.760
<v Speaker 14>afraid to talk.

0:15:54.840 --> 0:16:01.400
<v Speaker 1>I don't know why, but I might know why. The

0:16:01.440 --> 0:16:06.160
<v Speaker 1>top brass of Mayfield law enforcement had a reputation. People

0:16:06.200 --> 0:16:08.760
<v Speaker 1>said they were involved in illegal dealings with some of

0:16:08.800 --> 0:16:12.040
<v Speaker 1>the local drug runners. There were whispers that they sexually

0:16:12.040 --> 0:16:16.280
<v Speaker 1>harassed local women and teens. Jessica, on the other hand,

0:16:16.960 --> 0:16:20.160
<v Speaker 1>was dating a known drug dealer, and there were rumors

0:16:20.240 --> 0:16:23.800
<v Speaker 1>that she was a drug informant, though that was later refuted.

0:16:24.640 --> 0:16:28.000
<v Speaker 1>From what I can piece together, people took this information

0:16:28.520 --> 0:16:32.520
<v Speaker 1>and let their imaginations fill in the blanks. And it

0:16:32.640 --> 0:16:35.520
<v Speaker 1>didn't help that some of the rumors against the cops,

0:16:35.560 --> 0:16:44.160
<v Speaker 1>including Ronnie Lear, turned out to be true. Sometime after

0:16:44.280 --> 0:16:48.400
<v Speaker 1>Jessica's murder, Ronnie Lear was suspended without pay for selling

0:16:48.440 --> 0:16:53.400
<v Speaker 1>a VCR and stereo from the evidence room and pocketing

0:16:53.440 --> 0:16:57.440
<v Speaker 1>the money. A dispatcher at the precinct had also claimed

0:16:57.560 --> 0:17:00.200
<v Speaker 1>that Lear and one of his colleagues were misus using

0:17:00.280 --> 0:17:05.600
<v Speaker 1>city funds, including money confiscated from drug arrests. The same

0:17:05.640 --> 0:17:09.320
<v Speaker 1>dispatcher also claimed that Lear had coerced her into a

0:17:09.359 --> 0:17:16.520
<v Speaker 1>sexual encounter and then threatened her to stay silent. Then,

0:17:17.000 --> 0:17:21.359
<v Speaker 1>several months after Jessica's death, Lear resigned. He told the

0:17:21.359 --> 0:17:24.480
<v Speaker 1>press that he was leaving because his heart just wasn't

0:17:24.520 --> 0:17:27.800
<v Speaker 1>in the job anymore. But the Mayfield mayor at the time,

0:17:27.880 --> 0:17:33.399
<v Speaker 1>Wayne Potts, said Ronnie Lear tendered his resignation shortly after

0:17:33.520 --> 0:17:39.679
<v Speaker 1>Potts confronted him about the dispatcher's sexual harassment claims. And

0:17:39.720 --> 0:17:44.560
<v Speaker 1>when officers cleared Lear's desk they found around eighty baggies

0:17:44.680 --> 0:17:48.560
<v Speaker 1>and foils of suspected crack cocaine, a few bags of

0:17:48.600 --> 0:17:54.280
<v Speaker 1>suspected marijuana, and handguns that weren't police weapons or registered

0:17:54.400 --> 0:18:05.480
<v Speaker 1>into evidence. And all this malfeasance raised red flags for

0:18:05.560 --> 0:18:06.840
<v Speaker 1>Tom Mangled too.

0:18:07.560 --> 0:18:10.720
<v Speaker 7>Half the top echelon of Mayfield Police that imploded with

0:18:10.760 --> 0:18:14.640
<v Speaker 7>grubby little fiddles and corrupt practices. But it got worse

0:18:14.680 --> 0:18:16.399
<v Speaker 7>for Lea mayor.

0:18:16.440 --> 0:18:20.280
<v Speaker 1>Potts died in twenty nineteen, but Tom spoke to him

0:18:20.280 --> 0:18:24.560
<v Speaker 1>a few years before about Lear's reputation and the drugs

0:18:24.560 --> 0:18:25.119
<v Speaker 1>in his desk.

0:18:25.960 --> 0:18:28.080
<v Speaker 13>My guess would be that he had taken them away

0:18:28.119 --> 0:18:30.879
<v Speaker 13>from some of the street runners and said, hey, you

0:18:30.920 --> 0:18:33.359
<v Speaker 13>know you got drugs. I'm gonna put you in jail

0:18:33.400 --> 0:18:36.720
<v Speaker 13>for five years, or give me that bag of drugs

0:18:36.760 --> 0:18:38.879
<v Speaker 13>and you hit the road run and don't ever come back.

0:18:39.680 --> 0:18:42.600
<v Speaker 1>Lear claimed that he was using the confiscated material for

0:18:42.680 --> 0:18:46.200
<v Speaker 1>show and tell visits in the public schools, but Mayor

0:18:46.240 --> 0:18:48.119
<v Speaker 1>Potts said he didn't buy it.

0:18:48.720 --> 0:18:51.760
<v Speaker 13>That's enough drugs to do half of Mayfield. The state

0:18:51.800 --> 0:18:55.159
<v Speaker 13>police sent a special investigator in. He had worked with

0:18:55.280 --> 0:19:00.760
<v Speaker 13>drug investigations for years. He got into the accounting the money,

0:19:01.240 --> 0:19:03.959
<v Speaker 13>and he found where there was thousands of dollars taken.

0:19:08.040 --> 0:19:11.200
<v Speaker 1>Lear and his boss, the Mayfield Chief of Police, were

0:19:11.240 --> 0:19:16.959
<v Speaker 1>eventually indicted on felony charges of misusing public funds, but

0:19:17.080 --> 0:19:21.159
<v Speaker 1>Lear cut a deal with prosecutors. He didn't get prison time,

0:19:21.560 --> 0:19:24.399
<v Speaker 1>and because he stayed out of trouble for a few years,

0:19:25.119 --> 0:19:28.320
<v Speaker 1>the felony has been erased from his permanent record. That

0:19:28.480 --> 0:19:32.080
<v Speaker 1>means nosy journalists like me and Tom will never get

0:19:32.119 --> 0:19:39.720
<v Speaker 1>the full story on the extent of his malfeasance. When

0:19:39.760 --> 0:19:43.120
<v Speaker 1>Lear left his job as assistant chief of police, he

0:19:43.240 --> 0:19:46.640
<v Speaker 1>apologized to the community, paid some of the money back,

0:19:46.920 --> 0:19:51.960
<v Speaker 1>and eventually moved to Alabama. He left law enforcement altogether

0:19:52.560 --> 0:19:56.720
<v Speaker 1>and got a job at an insurance company. But Ronnie

0:19:56.800 --> 0:20:01.679
<v Speaker 1>Lear's presence and the failures under his leadership lingered on.

0:20:02.280 --> 0:20:07.520
<v Speaker 1>In Jessica's case. When the Kentucky State Police took over

0:20:07.560 --> 0:20:11.800
<v Speaker 1>the investigation, they actually asked Ronnie Lear if he ever

0:20:11.920 --> 0:20:17.080
<v Speaker 1>concealed information or was in any way connected to Jessica's death.

0:20:18.800 --> 0:20:23.200
<v Speaker 1>Ronnie Lear denied any involvement. He even agreed to take

0:20:23.200 --> 0:20:26.800
<v Speaker 1>a polygraph, but that appears to never have happened.

0:20:33.640 --> 0:20:36.800
<v Speaker 4>Okay, so we got a big box.

0:20:37.600 --> 0:20:38.200
<v Speaker 9>In the mail.

0:20:39.480 --> 0:20:42.960
<v Speaker 1>Rebecca and I requested Ronnie Lear's personnel file from ninety

0:20:43.000 --> 0:20:46.399
<v Speaker 1>seven to two thousand and three. Maybe we'd find a

0:20:46.440 --> 0:20:53.000
<v Speaker 1>smoking gun connecting leir to Jessica. Lear joined Mayfield Police

0:20:53.080 --> 0:20:56.479
<v Speaker 1>in nineteen ninety and worked his way to assistant chief

0:20:56.680 --> 0:20:58.639
<v Speaker 1>after a stint with the Army National Guard.

0:21:00.119 --> 0:21:03.959
<v Speaker 4>Is six' to, two brown, hair blue. Eyes he's got

0:21:04.000 --> 0:21:05.719
<v Speaker 4>a high school degree and an.

0:21:05.760 --> 0:21:10.000
<v Speaker 1>Associates he's married with, kids a, churchgoer.

0:21:10.160 --> 0:21:13.880
<v Speaker 4>Member Of rotary, club president Of mayfield And Graves county

0:21:14.000 --> 0:21:15.119
<v Speaker 4>Child advocacy.

0:21:15.160 --> 0:21:19.520
<v Speaker 1>Program there's a lot of everyday paperwork in the. Box

0:21:19.800 --> 0:21:24.200
<v Speaker 1>this is a. Payroll there's for seats for, travel, reimbursements

0:21:24.400 --> 0:21:28.280
<v Speaker 1>certificates of completion from courses like leadership for The New,

0:21:28.320 --> 0:21:35.240
<v Speaker 1>century insurance. Documents there's record of his disciplinary hearings that

0:21:35.359 --> 0:21:37.760
<v Speaker 1>match up with what has been reported in the, press

0:21:38.240 --> 0:21:41.800
<v Speaker 1>like stealing A vcr from the evidence room and a

0:21:41.840 --> 0:21:46.159
<v Speaker 1>spattering of complaints going back to ninety. Seven but what

0:21:46.280 --> 0:21:50.320
<v Speaker 1>catches our eye is what isn't There no mention of

0:21:50.320 --> 0:21:54.119
<v Speaker 1>the piles of drugs reportedly confiscated from his, desk or

0:21:54.280 --> 0:21:59.359
<v Speaker 1>the reported sexual harassment claim against, him and no mention Of.

0:21:59.440 --> 0:22:05.240
<v Speaker 1>Jessica the Allegations i've heard Against Ronnie lear go beyond

0:22:05.440 --> 0:22:09.160
<v Speaker 1>misuse of funds and stealing, evidence yet many of them

0:22:09.240 --> 0:22:13.080
<v Speaker 1>have been made by the same unreliable witnesses that first

0:22:13.160 --> 0:22:17.280
<v Speaker 1>Implicated Jeremy adams and the murder and Then Quincy. Cross

0:22:20.920 --> 0:22:23.920
<v Speaker 1>according to the emails obtained by The Kentucky Innocence, Project

0:22:24.560 --> 0:22:28.159
<v Speaker 1>Victoria caldwell made a formal complaint Against lear to The

0:22:28.200 --> 0:22:32.600
<v Speaker 1>Attorney general's, office And Tom mangled followed up on our

0:22:32.600 --> 0:22:36.440
<v Speaker 1>claims to no. Avail The AG's office eventually told him

0:22:36.840 --> 0:22:41.359
<v Speaker 1>That victoria dropped the, complaint And tom did not Publish victoria's.

0:22:41.359 --> 0:22:48.960
<v Speaker 1>Claims we've reached out to The Kentucky Attorney general and

0:22:49.200 --> 0:22:52.720
<v Speaker 1>The Kentucky State police for any records they may have On,

0:22:52.840 --> 0:22:57.320
<v Speaker 1>lear hoping to confirm any further. Allegations of, misconduct but

0:22:57.400 --> 0:23:00.960
<v Speaker 1>they either don't have them or haven't made them available to,

0:23:01.040 --> 0:23:05.040
<v Speaker 1>us And Ronnie lear hasn't agreed to an.

0:23:05.080 --> 0:23:11.919
<v Speaker 7>Interview casefully, Solved SOMETIMES i wonder whether there's still something

0:23:12.080 --> 0:23:12.520
<v Speaker 7>rotten In.

0:23:12.600 --> 0:23:23.000
<v Speaker 1>Mayfield In tom's final, piece broadcast in twenty, Twelve tom

0:23:23.040 --> 0:23:25.919
<v Speaker 1>says he was left with the sense that something was

0:23:26.040 --> 0:23:29.879
<v Speaker 1>rotten In, mayfield even if he could never get to

0:23:29.960 --> 0:23:33.520
<v Speaker 1>the bottom of. It i've grappled with all of this

0:23:34.080 --> 0:23:38.359
<v Speaker 1>in my many calls with my trusted, Source daryl Woman.

0:23:38.280 --> 0:23:41.400
<v Speaker 16>Lear From Jump. Straight that's ALL i heard Was, Lear Lear,

0:23:41.480 --> 0:23:43.040
<v Speaker 16>lear AND i was, like.

0:23:43.160 --> 0:23:44.360
<v Speaker 1>Okay but.

0:23:45.920 --> 0:23:49.080
<v Speaker 17>Everyone has tried to make him happy that there he's

0:23:49.119 --> 0:23:52.439
<v Speaker 17>the wizard brought in the, curtain AND i don't believe.

0:23:52.440 --> 0:23:56.280
<v Speaker 1>It what if all of this shit About Ronnie lear

0:23:56.560 --> 0:23:59.280
<v Speaker 1>is just made? Up like what if this is all

0:23:59.440 --> 0:24:00.280
<v Speaker 1>just rumor.

0:24:01.760 --> 0:24:01.920
<v Speaker 8>Just a?

0:24:02.080 --> 0:24:05.080
<v Speaker 16>Rumor like that's WHY i told you that gossip is

0:24:05.080 --> 0:24:08.879
<v Speaker 16>the gospel in his, ath baby or? All and so

0:24:09.080 --> 0:24:12.080
<v Speaker 16>everyone for so long has told themselves the same story

0:24:12.680 --> 0:24:15.240
<v Speaker 16>and the same story and the same. Story this is

0:24:15.280 --> 0:24:18.359
<v Speaker 16>a crime that wasn't meant to be, solved.

0:24:18.720 --> 0:24:21.960
<v Speaker 1>And Joe curran has had to reckon with these rumors

0:24:22.000 --> 0:24:25.080
<v Speaker 1>surrounding his daughter's. Death do you think he could be?

0:24:25.119 --> 0:24:29.320
<v Speaker 12>Involved most people THAT i talk to that's around here

0:24:29.520 --> 0:24:30.480
<v Speaker 12>feel like he, is.

0:24:31.920 --> 0:24:32.480
<v Speaker 11>BUT i don't.

0:24:32.520 --> 0:24:39.080
<v Speaker 1>Know my team AND i have gone back and forth

0:24:39.200 --> 0:24:42.840
<v Speaker 1>on whether to present the details of these. Allegations but

0:24:42.880 --> 0:24:45.199
<v Speaker 1>if there's something that has been made clear in my

0:24:45.320 --> 0:24:49.040
<v Speaker 1>reporting of this case is that the stories we tell

0:24:49.320 --> 0:24:53.000
<v Speaker 1>matter in our, communities in the, courts and in the.

0:24:53.040 --> 0:24:57.240
<v Speaker 1>Press there's a danger in trying to write a neat

0:24:57.400 --> 0:25:00.840
<v Speaker 1>ending for a murder case, that in many ways seems so,

0:25:01.080 --> 0:25:07.040
<v Speaker 1>senseless and the need to find someone to blame can

0:25:07.119 --> 0:25:10.320
<v Speaker 1>come at a great cost to the lives of people

0:25:10.520 --> 0:25:16.119
<v Speaker 1>Like Tamra, Caldwell Jeff, burton And Quincy. Cross but WHAT

0:25:16.240 --> 0:25:20.000
<v Speaker 1>i do know is that the incompetence and corruption From

0:25:20.119 --> 0:25:24.560
<v Speaker 1>Ronnie lear and his police department tainted the investigation Into

0:25:24.680 --> 0:25:29.600
<v Speaker 1>jessica's death from the. Start it added to the countless

0:25:29.600 --> 0:25:32.880
<v Speaker 1>allegations that law enforcement had to parse through in order

0:25:32.960 --> 0:25:37.520
<v Speaker 1>to separate fact from. Fiction it bred mistrust around, town

0:25:37.920 --> 0:25:41.480
<v Speaker 1>leaving the doors wide open for someone Like Susan gallbreath

0:25:41.600 --> 0:25:44.720
<v Speaker 1>to come in and test her, theories and it meant

0:25:44.760 --> 0:25:49.119
<v Speaker 1>prosecutors under pressure to close an eight year old, case

0:25:50.000 --> 0:25:54.080
<v Speaker 1>pushed to get a conviction at all, costs ignoring the

0:25:54.119 --> 0:26:05.840
<v Speaker 1>fact that the truth may actually be impossible to. Find and,

0:26:05.880 --> 0:26:11.000
<v Speaker 1>so after twenty five years of looking for, Answers Joe

0:26:11.080 --> 0:26:15.520
<v Speaker 1>kurrn has, none just daily reminders of the void his

0:26:15.680 --> 0:26:19.879
<v Speaker 1>daughter's death has left in his. Life how do you feel?

0:26:19.920 --> 0:26:23.359
<v Speaker 12>Now you survive, It you never get over. It, now

0:26:24.400 --> 0:26:28.520
<v Speaker 12>don't let nobody ever tell you you get, closure because

0:26:28.800 --> 0:26:31.399
<v Speaker 12>you'll always miss a person like that the rest of your.

0:26:31.440 --> 0:26:33.600
<v Speaker 12>Life there is no such thying as.

0:26:33.640 --> 0:27:06.560
<v Speaker 1>Closure more after the, BREAK i end this investigation with

0:27:06.640 --> 0:27:10.280
<v Speaker 1>more questions than answers about who may have Killed Jessica

0:27:10.359 --> 0:27:13.880
<v Speaker 1>curran and. Why but my goal was to find out

0:27:13.920 --> 0:27:17.520
<v Speaker 1>if there was any truth To, Tamra jeff And quincy's

0:27:17.560 --> 0:27:21.639
<v Speaker 1>claims of. Innocence AND i THINK i could say with certainty,

0:27:21.880 --> 0:27:24.840
<v Speaker 1>that based on all the Evidence i've presented to, YOU

0:27:25.760 --> 0:27:28.040
<v Speaker 1>i do not believe they're guilty of the crime the

0:27:28.080 --> 0:27:33.560
<v Speaker 1>prosecution accused and convicted them. Of Still quincy lingers in.

0:27:33.600 --> 0:27:37.840
<v Speaker 1>Prison getting out has been a slow moving, fight riddled with.

0:27:37.960 --> 0:27:45.080
<v Speaker 1>Setbacks in late twenty twenty, Four Miranda, Hellman quincy's, attorney

0:27:45.600 --> 0:27:51.560
<v Speaker 1>left The Kentucky Innocence. PROJECT i, mean, okay so many,

0:27:51.640 --> 0:27:55.359
<v Speaker 1>questions are you? Okay so do you.

0:27:55.359 --> 0:27:57.960
<v Speaker 18>Want the kind of quick as version of the.

0:27:58.080 --> 0:28:01.880
<v Speaker 1>Story WHILE i was surprised by the, news the discontent

0:28:02.040 --> 0:28:06.160
<v Speaker 1>leading To miranda leaving had been building for a. Minute

0:28:06.280 --> 0:28:09.760
<v Speaker 1>miranda became frustrated by the lack of resources to properly

0:28:09.800 --> 0:28:15.080
<v Speaker 1>work her, cases big ones Like. Quincy's miranda says this

0:28:15.400 --> 0:28:19.600
<v Speaker 1>was further complicated by how entangled The Kentucky Innocence project

0:28:19.800 --> 0:28:20.679
<v Speaker 1>is with the state.

0:28:20.920 --> 0:28:26.879
<v Speaker 19>Legislature so while we have our own independent structure and

0:28:26.960 --> 0:28:30.920
<v Speaker 19>we don't necessarily have to answer for everything we do

0:28:31.160 --> 0:28:33.680
<v Speaker 19>or the cases we take or how we litigate.

0:28:33.240 --> 0:28:35.399
<v Speaker 18>Them we're completely funded by the.

0:28:35.440 --> 0:28:40.160
<v Speaker 19>State so what legislators see and what judges, see.

0:28:39.920 --> 0:28:43.960
<v Speaker 18>And what people with power see matters when we ask for.

0:28:44.080 --> 0:28:48.840
<v Speaker 1>Money it especially matters when people Like miranda are accusing

0:28:49.040 --> 0:28:53.320
<v Speaker 1>top law, enforcement like the prosecutors who Tried quincy's case of.

0:28:53.400 --> 0:28:59.560
<v Speaker 19>Malfeasance they see that someone that they signed off on

0:28:59.600 --> 0:29:04.520
<v Speaker 19>a salary is saying that the prosecutors at the highest

0:29:04.640 --> 0:29:09.040
<v Speaker 19>level are committing perjury and committing felonies and are putting

0:29:09.080 --> 0:29:11.880
<v Speaker 19>people in prison and lying about why they put them,

0:29:11.920 --> 0:29:14.240
<v Speaker 19>there and so at the end of the, day.

0:29:14.480 --> 0:29:17.080
<v Speaker 18>My boss's boss's boss's boss has to.

0:29:17.040 --> 0:29:20.920
<v Speaker 19>Answer to, that either publicly at a legislative hearing or

0:29:21.800 --> 0:29:24.280
<v Speaker 19>just in an informal meeting where they're sitting there talking

0:29:24.280 --> 0:29:26.400
<v Speaker 19>to the heads of these other departments.

0:29:26.840 --> 0:29:30.360
<v Speaker 1>Like The department Of corrections or The Kentucky State, police

0:29:30.840 --> 0:29:33.240
<v Speaker 1>which are all run under the same umbrella as The

0:29:33.280 --> 0:29:37.800
<v Speaker 1>Kentucky Innocence. Project and While miranda is never told point

0:29:37.880 --> 0:29:41.760
<v Speaker 1>blank to drop her, accusations she says the funding for

0:29:41.800 --> 0:29:43.320
<v Speaker 1>her cases slowly.

0:29:43.400 --> 0:29:47.160
<v Speaker 19>Dwindled they start taking your purse strings, away they start

0:29:47.160 --> 0:29:48.240
<v Speaker 19>taking your positions.

0:29:48.240 --> 0:29:51.320
<v Speaker 18>Away we haven't had an investigator in nearly a. Year you.

0:29:51.360 --> 0:29:53.400
<v Speaker 18>Know as they start taking your, resources there's just nothing

0:29:53.440 --> 0:29:53.920
<v Speaker 18>that you can.

0:29:53.960 --> 0:29:57.600
<v Speaker 1>Do it makes the uphill battle of proving a wrongful

0:29:57.640 --> 0:30:04.760
<v Speaker 1>conviction even. Steeper but even Without, Miranda quincy's case carries,

0:30:04.800 --> 0:30:09.360
<v Speaker 1>on and The Kentucky Innocence project is still fighting to

0:30:09.440 --> 0:30:17.040
<v Speaker 1>get his conviction. Overturned in early twenty twenty, Five quincy's

0:30:17.120 --> 0:30:20.400
<v Speaker 1>new attorney got results from ink testing on the diary

0:30:20.440 --> 0:30:24.320
<v Speaker 1>That victoria read from at, trial the diary the prosecutors

0:30:24.400 --> 0:30:26.640
<v Speaker 1>used as evidence that she had been an accomplice to

0:30:26.680 --> 0:30:33.240
<v Speaker 1>the crime and That victoria later said was. Fake the

0:30:33.360 --> 0:30:37.840
<v Speaker 1>results aren't a slam dunk, yet but they're. Promising according

0:30:37.840 --> 0:30:40.800
<v Speaker 1>to an affidavit from a forensic chemist of over twenty,

0:30:40.960 --> 0:30:44.640
<v Speaker 1>years there is no evidence that the ink used to

0:30:44.680 --> 0:30:48.360
<v Speaker 1>write the key diary entries read at trial was available

0:30:48.400 --> 0:30:52.600
<v Speaker 1>for use before two thousand and, seven years After jessica's.

0:30:52.600 --> 0:30:56.720
<v Speaker 1>Death this same, expert who currently serves with The department

0:30:56.760 --> 0:31:00.360
<v Speaker 1>Of Homeland, security was actually called as a witness at

0:31:00.400 --> 0:31:05.120
<v Speaker 1>the first trial by the, prosecution but now is working

0:31:05.160 --> 0:31:10.960
<v Speaker 1>With quincy's defense. Team THEN dna test results came in

0:31:11.120 --> 0:31:14.840
<v Speaker 1>From harris found On jessica's body at, autopsy which hadn't

0:31:14.880 --> 0:31:20.720
<v Speaker 1>been previously, tested and the results completely Exclude, Quincy tamra

0:31:21.040 --> 0:31:26.520
<v Speaker 1>Or jeff from all testing. Done this means nothing forensically

0:31:26.560 --> 0:31:30.120
<v Speaker 1>tested from the scene at the middle school or From

0:31:30.240 --> 0:31:36.080
<v Speaker 1>jessica's body, itself has ever Linked, Quincy tamra Or jeff

0:31:36.520 --> 0:31:42.360
<v Speaker 1>to the. Crime there's no.

0:31:42.440 --> 0:31:47.440
<v Speaker 15>Evidence there's no physical evidence that Put quincy nowhere near this.

0:31:47.600 --> 0:31:51.640
<v Speaker 1>Girl none of this comes as a surprise To quincy's,

0:31:51.720 --> 0:31:54.320
<v Speaker 1>Dad David, cross and the other.

0:31:54.400 --> 0:31:58.120
<v Speaker 15>People they didn't know each. Other i've never heard of.

0:31:58.160 --> 0:32:01.560
<v Speaker 15>Such i'm seventy years, old AND i Don't i've never

0:32:01.640 --> 0:32:05.600
<v Speaker 15>heard of three people that didn't know each other get

0:32:05.640 --> 0:32:07.560
<v Speaker 15>convicted of a hainus crime like.

0:32:07.600 --> 0:32:11.720
<v Speaker 1>This and none of this comes as a surprise To.

0:32:11.800 --> 0:32:14.560
<v Speaker 9>Quincy, WELL i knew they ain't really have nothing on,

0:32:14.600 --> 0:32:16.840
<v Speaker 9>me SO i ain't really the. Move i'm feeling the

0:32:16.880 --> 0:32:19.080
<v Speaker 9>same WAY i always. FEEL i ain't, ever you, KNOW

0:32:19.120 --> 0:32:22.080
<v Speaker 9>i ain't committed the. Crime so it's just something glad

0:32:22.120 --> 0:32:23.560
<v Speaker 9>that the truth is coming, out you.

0:32:23.520 --> 0:32:23.840
<v Speaker 15>Know What i'm.

0:32:23.840 --> 0:32:27.280
<v Speaker 9>Saying that does me some good my heart to know,

0:32:27.360 --> 0:32:29.479
<v Speaker 9>that you, know a lot of things that they were

0:32:29.520 --> 0:32:31.600
<v Speaker 9>saying was just last to put in front of a.

0:32:31.720 --> 0:32:35.840
<v Speaker 1>Junny quincy has had a lot of time to think

0:32:35.840 --> 0:32:40.720
<v Speaker 1>about what and who landed him behind. Bars but when

0:32:40.760 --> 0:32:45.280
<v Speaker 1>it comes To Venetia's Double fields And Victoria, Caldwell quincy

0:32:45.360 --> 0:32:48.520
<v Speaker 1>says there's no ill will them.

0:32:48.360 --> 0:32:52.040
<v Speaker 9>Being keens at the. Time she you, KNOW i don't

0:32:52.040 --> 0:32:54.160
<v Speaker 9>hold no goods with. Them it's just it's the people

0:32:54.160 --> 0:32:56.360
<v Speaker 9>that they told to last. For it's what having a

0:32:56.400 --> 0:33:00.400
<v Speaker 9>problem with What i'm, Saying i'm having the problem with

0:33:00.440 --> 0:33:01.440
<v Speaker 9>the state Of.

0:33:01.560 --> 0:33:07.160
<v Speaker 1>Kentucky quincy's attorneys have presented all their findings in, court

0:33:07.520 --> 0:33:11.920
<v Speaker 1>and now he waits for the same judicial system that

0:33:12.000 --> 0:33:15.640
<v Speaker 1>put him behind bars to decide if he deserves a

0:33:15.720 --> 0:33:24.760
<v Speaker 1>second chance at proving his, innocence And quincy's loved, ones Including,

0:33:24.880 --> 0:33:26.240
<v Speaker 1>dara wait with.

0:33:26.360 --> 0:33:32.200
<v Speaker 17>HIM i believe that he is innocent with my whole.

0:33:32.320 --> 0:33:35.280
<v Speaker 17>Art if, SO i would have left y'all and everybody

0:33:35.280 --> 0:33:39.360
<v Speaker 17>else the fuck alone a long time. Ago i'm ready

0:33:39.400 --> 0:33:42.560
<v Speaker 17>to move on with my, life BUT i. Can't i'm

0:33:42.560 --> 0:33:47.200
<v Speaker 17>going to love this family too. Much and regardless of

0:33:47.240 --> 0:33:50.760
<v Speaker 17>his innocence or, guilt he didn't have a fair. Trial

0:33:52.080 --> 0:33:55.920
<v Speaker 17>and that's WHAT i stand behind is if we don't

0:33:55.960 --> 0:33:58.520
<v Speaker 17>have a correct judicial, system then we have nothing but.

0:33:58.600 --> 0:34:04.560
<v Speaker 1>Anarchy And dara waits because she says she's honor bound

0:34:04.840 --> 0:34:05.400
<v Speaker 1>To David.

0:34:05.440 --> 0:34:10.279
<v Speaker 17>Cross, david whenever we originally got in, TOUCH i was,

0:34:10.280 --> 0:34:15.319
<v Speaker 17>LIKE i promise you and offer you nothing at all

0:34:15.400 --> 0:34:18.560
<v Speaker 17>except for maybe a little bit of hope and persistence

0:34:18.719 --> 0:34:23.319
<v Speaker 17>and a lot of fun. Personality that's. It that's ALL i,

0:34:23.400 --> 0:34:26.200
<v Speaker 17>offer and the fact THAT i won't quit until we

0:34:26.239 --> 0:34:30.000
<v Speaker 17>get to the. End whatever the end looks. LIKE i

0:34:30.040 --> 0:34:35.520
<v Speaker 17>have no fucking, clue But i'm not going. Anywhere AND

0:34:35.600 --> 0:34:38.799
<v Speaker 17>i got you and that's what my family. Says as

0:34:38.800 --> 0:34:40.759
<v Speaker 17>opposed TO i love, you we always SAY i got,

0:34:40.800 --> 0:34:43.520
<v Speaker 17>You and to, me that's the most important thing.

0:34:44.880 --> 0:34:54.160
<v Speaker 1>IS i got. Them tamra And jeff have both been

0:34:54.160 --> 0:34:57.239
<v Speaker 1>out of prison for more than a, decade but their

0:34:57.239 --> 0:35:04.920
<v Speaker 1>convictions hang over them every, day souring their. Freedom Jeff

0:35:04.960 --> 0:35:09.120
<v Speaker 1>burton works at his family, cafe serving chicken casseroles And

0:35:09.160 --> 0:35:11.080
<v Speaker 1>western omelets alongside his.

0:35:11.160 --> 0:35:14.600
<v Speaker 8>Mom so, yes it's the greatest. Woman it, truly truly.

0:35:14.760 --> 0:35:19.520
<v Speaker 1>Is getting a good job with a serious felony, conviction

0:35:20.000 --> 0:35:23.480
<v Speaker 1>or even getting a job at, all is nearly.

0:35:23.520 --> 0:35:27.640
<v Speaker 8>Impossible this is a, Blessing it really truly, is BECAUSE

0:35:27.680 --> 0:35:28.640
<v Speaker 8>i mean it is hard to get a.

0:35:28.719 --> 0:35:32.440
<v Speaker 1>Job Before jeff got caught up in this, case he

0:35:32.560 --> 0:35:35.920
<v Speaker 1>was a young husband and a dad of. THREE i

0:35:36.040 --> 0:35:36.560
<v Speaker 1>was straight and.

0:35:36.640 --> 0:35:38.920
<v Speaker 8>NARROW i wasn't doing. NOTHING i was trying to be

0:35:38.960 --> 0:35:39.960
<v Speaker 8>a good.

0:35:39.800 --> 0:35:43.040
<v Speaker 1>Father getting his life in, order trying to.

0:35:42.920 --> 0:35:45.120
<v Speaker 8>Be a family. Man just trying to do. That that's

0:35:45.160 --> 0:35:47.080
<v Speaker 8>ALL i really focused. On make sure the kids had

0:35:47.120 --> 0:35:50.200
<v Speaker 8>to create Good christmas or stuff like.

0:35:50.239 --> 0:35:55.600
<v Speaker 1>That But jeff's marriage didn't survive his prison. Sentence and

0:35:55.640 --> 0:35:59.120
<v Speaker 1>as he's talking about that, time his hands get shaky

0:35:59.440 --> 0:36:01.880
<v Speaker 1>and his voice, quivers BECAUSE.

0:36:01.680 --> 0:36:03.920
<v Speaker 8>I, mean, man that shit really fucked my life. Up

0:36:03.960 --> 0:36:06.440
<v Speaker 8>it really, did and uh you, KNOW i was in

0:36:06.480 --> 0:36:10.480
<v Speaker 8>prison like seven, years and it really. Did it ruled my.

0:36:10.560 --> 0:36:13.480
<v Speaker 8>Life so that's WHY i get, all you, know all

0:36:13.480 --> 0:36:16.360
<v Speaker 8>because some girls. Lied there's no nothing to prove anything

0:36:16.400 --> 0:36:18.200
<v Speaker 8>except for the they, said and that's.

0:36:18.200 --> 0:36:24.080
<v Speaker 1>Bullshit Like, Quincy jeff's family has stood by him all.

0:36:24.200 --> 0:36:27.120
<v Speaker 8>Along they sacrificed a lot WHEN i was in the.

0:36:27.160 --> 0:36:29.440
<v Speaker 1>Penitentiary especially his.

0:36:29.560 --> 0:36:32.200
<v Speaker 8>Mom you, know she'd always come see me if my

0:36:32.440 --> 0:36:34.640
<v Speaker 8>ex wife and kids can, come or Make she'd make

0:36:34.680 --> 0:36:37.800
<v Speaker 8>SURE i had to, visit kept money on the, phone,

0:36:38.600 --> 0:36:40.640
<v Speaker 8>everything you know WHAT i. Mean she was, there, man

0:36:40.800 --> 0:36:43.680
<v Speaker 8>so Which i've always been pretty close to my.

0:36:43.719 --> 0:36:53.040
<v Speaker 1>Mama tamera also struggles with life after. Prison if you

0:36:53.120 --> 0:36:57.040
<v Speaker 1>go back to two thousand and, six two thousand and

0:36:57.120 --> 0:37:00.200
<v Speaker 1>five and you never got wrapped up in, this what

0:37:00.239 --> 0:37:04.120
<v Speaker 1>do you think your life would be like? TODAY i

0:37:04.160 --> 0:37:08.040
<v Speaker 1>wouldn't be in may for, You, yep. YEP i sure

0:37:08.080 --> 0:37:16.640
<v Speaker 1>wouldn't be In. Kentucky you. Wouldn't tamara has had a

0:37:16.680 --> 0:37:20.640
<v Speaker 1>hard time getting a job because of her, conviction but Like,

0:37:20.760 --> 0:37:26.240
<v Speaker 1>jeff she's got support today at forty, Five she cleans

0:37:26.320 --> 0:37:28.360
<v Speaker 1>and paints houses for a friend's.

0:37:28.400 --> 0:37:35.120
<v Speaker 15>Company mainly the projects they have the, Authorities, okay, yes

0:37:35.239 --> 0:37:37.239
<v Speaker 15>mainly when they move, OUT i clean them firth and

0:37:37.239 --> 0:37:37.840
<v Speaker 15>THEN i paint.

0:37:37.840 --> 0:37:41.320
<v Speaker 1>Them she's close with her, Mom, brenda and her. Children

0:37:42.080 --> 0:37:45.560
<v Speaker 1>the last TIME i Visited tamra Was december twenty twenty

0:37:45.560 --> 0:37:49.160
<v Speaker 1>four and they were getting ready For. Christmas they always

0:37:49.160 --> 0:37:52.080
<v Speaker 1>want me to. Cook they ain sweet. Potatoes oh you're

0:37:52.080 --> 0:37:56.880
<v Speaker 1>making the sweet. Potatoes. Yes it's a simple, life a

0:37:56.920 --> 0:38:01.080
<v Speaker 1>good and honest. One but if tam could have written

0:38:01.120 --> 0:38:04.279
<v Speaker 1>her own, ending she, says maybe she would have gone

0:38:04.320 --> 0:38:07.560
<v Speaker 1>back to school after her three kids were. Grown she

0:38:07.600 --> 0:38:09.680
<v Speaker 1>would have liked to be a nurse or a weather.

0:38:09.800 --> 0:38:14.560
<v Speaker 1>Person but despite all she's been, Through tamra has told

0:38:14.560 --> 0:38:18.560
<v Speaker 1>me a few times that she's. Lucky even though you

0:38:18.640 --> 0:38:20.919
<v Speaker 1>had five and a half years of your life taken,

0:38:20.960 --> 0:38:24.799
<v Speaker 1>away you still think you're. Lucky, yep, yep sure.

0:38:24.880 --> 0:38:28.920
<v Speaker 7>Do i'm here for a. Reason he ain't through with me.

0:38:29.000 --> 0:38:38.040
<v Speaker 1>Yet he's not through with me. Yet quincy's, Dad, david

0:38:38.400 --> 0:38:43.880
<v Speaker 1>shares this, Sentiment there ever a time during this last

0:38:43.920 --> 0:38:45.400
<v Speaker 1>decade that you've lost hope at?

0:38:45.400 --> 0:38:51.880
<v Speaker 15>All, no, no, No WELL i CAN'T i can't imagine losing.

0:38:51.920 --> 0:38:55.760
<v Speaker 15>HOPE i have to think that something good is gonna

0:38:55.760 --> 0:38:58.839
<v Speaker 15>come out of. This his life is worth if worth,

0:38:58.920 --> 0:39:02.920
<v Speaker 15>That if it's not, worth nothing else is worth something

0:39:02.960 --> 0:39:06.720
<v Speaker 15>good coming out of. It, NO i can't imagine losing.

0:39:06.760 --> 0:39:10.879
<v Speaker 1>Hope But david seems to have whethered SINCE i first

0:39:10.920 --> 0:39:14.440
<v Speaker 1>met him in twenty twenty. Three he's grown older waiting

0:39:14.480 --> 0:39:17.040
<v Speaker 1>for his, son and the last time we spoke in,

0:39:17.080 --> 0:39:20.000
<v Speaker 1>person the reality of that was on his.

0:39:20.120 --> 0:39:24.880
<v Speaker 15>Mind the only FEAR i got THAT i won't live

0:39:25.000 --> 0:39:28.680
<v Speaker 15>to See quincy walk out of. Prison that's my only

0:39:28.760 --> 0:39:29.440
<v Speaker 15>fear in.

0:39:29.560 --> 0:39:32.400
<v Speaker 2>Life you, know.

0:39:32.520 --> 0:39:33.520
<v Speaker 13>That's my goal.

0:39:36.960 --> 0:39:41.160
<v Speaker 1>Until he's free. Again quincy's family lives on hope and,

0:39:41.400 --> 0:39:48.160
<v Speaker 1>memories do it so. Sor WHEN i first Met quincy's,

0:39:48.200 --> 0:39:52.439
<v Speaker 1>family his Sister rochelle was. There she's one Of quincy's six,

0:39:52.560 --> 0:39:56.080
<v Speaker 1>sisters and she was beaming at the chance to tell

0:39:56.120 --> 0:40:00.160
<v Speaker 1>the world about her, brother about their childhood running free

0:40:00.400 --> 0:40:03.239
<v Speaker 1>in Rural. Tennessee we you, know we're from the.

0:40:03.320 --> 0:40:09.840
<v Speaker 6>Style So grandma's backyard was the, playground, trees, swings jumping.

0:40:09.920 --> 0:40:13.920
<v Speaker 1>DITCHES i Think rochelle, remembers we can dance parties in

0:40:13.960 --> 0:40:17.080
<v Speaker 1>a house full of kids in. Life we enjoyed, It.

0:40:17.040 --> 0:40:18.880
<v Speaker 12>We Loved we was a family that loved to get

0:40:18.920 --> 0:40:21.600
<v Speaker 12>together On saturday mornings and just get in the living

0:40:21.640 --> 0:40:23.520
<v Speaker 12>room and just dance and have fun and cut.

0:40:23.600 --> 0:40:24.600
<v Speaker 1>Up that was our.

0:40:24.640 --> 0:40:28.680
<v Speaker 4>Thing R V wraps was, on And i'm gonna tell you.

0:40:28.719 --> 0:40:29.640
<v Speaker 12>Something quincy.

0:40:31.520 --> 0:40:32.919
<v Speaker 1>W pop lock great.

0:40:33.120 --> 0:40:35.759
<v Speaker 7>Dance it would turn on his head and you know.

0:40:36.440 --> 0:40:38.399
<v Speaker 1>We can do. That like what kind of music were?

0:40:38.440 --> 0:40:44.720
<v Speaker 1>Doing quincy was her ride Or Die Rochelle's ho's whatever

0:40:44.719 --> 0:40:45.239
<v Speaker 1>it came to.

0:40:45.320 --> 0:40:49.319
<v Speaker 4>Be quincy was. THERE i need a babysitter BECAUSE i

0:40:49.360 --> 0:40:54.040
<v Speaker 4>want to go to the. Club quincy was. There that's

0:40:54.120 --> 0:40:59.440
<v Speaker 4>type people we. Are you, know we come from, nothing.

0:41:00.760 --> 0:41:01.359
<v Speaker 2>But we had.

0:41:01.400 --> 0:41:14.080
<v Speaker 1>Love this Year quincy turned forty, nine another birthday away from,

0:41:14.120 --> 0:41:19.719
<v Speaker 1>home nineteen of. Them one, Day quincy would like to

0:41:19.800 --> 0:41:24.040
<v Speaker 1>Leave kentucky move back To. TENNESSEE i picture him on

0:41:24.120 --> 0:41:27.040
<v Speaker 1>the porch of his childhood, home sitting next to his,

0:41:27.080 --> 0:41:32.000
<v Speaker 1>father all quiet and still except for the sound of

0:41:32.040 --> 0:41:35.840
<v Speaker 1>cicadas and the occasional laughter of his nieces and nephews running,

0:41:35.840 --> 0:41:40.239
<v Speaker 1>by playing with, tadpoles just like he used to years

0:41:40.239 --> 0:41:48.760
<v Speaker 1>ago in those very same. Fields but for, Now quincy

0:41:48.840 --> 0:41:51.799
<v Speaker 1>is content that you got to hear his.

0:41:51.880 --> 0:41:55.440
<v Speaker 10>STORY i want the world to see AND i want

0:41:55.480 --> 0:41:58.200
<v Speaker 10>them to look at the fag that. AGAIN i want

0:41:58.239 --> 0:42:02.319
<v Speaker 10>them to look at everything about this, case because you,

0:42:02.360 --> 0:42:03.960
<v Speaker 10>Know i'd have been through some hele trying to get

0:42:03.960 --> 0:42:06.600
<v Speaker 10>the truth, out and now THAT i got an opportunity

0:42:06.719 --> 0:42:08.319
<v Speaker 10>to get it, out it.

0:42:08.280 --> 0:42:12.960
<v Speaker 9>Makes everything a whole lot. Better, yeah it makes everything

0:42:12.960 --> 0:42:16.880
<v Speaker 9>a whole lot better for. Me that's WHAT i want the.

0:42:16.920 --> 0:42:18.120
<v Speaker 4>World thank you for Ucing.

0:42:18.400 --> 0:42:35.960
<v Speaker 1>Securist. Goodbye Graves county is a production Of lava For

0:42:36.080 --> 0:42:40.120
<v Speaker 1>good in association With Signal Company Number. One this show

0:42:40.239 --> 0:42:43.440
<v Speaker 1>is written and produced by Me Maggie freeling and senior

0:42:43.480 --> 0:42:47.960
<v Speaker 1>Producer Rebecca. Ibarra Jason, Flamm Jeff, kempler And Kevin burtis

0:42:48.000 --> 0:42:53.240
<v Speaker 1>are executive. Producers our editor Is martina Abraham's. Ilunga Dania

0:42:53.280 --> 0:42:57.239
<v Speaker 1>suleiman is our fact. Checker sound design and mixing By Joe.

0:42:57.280 --> 0:43:01.160
<v Speaker 1>Plored music created By. Wrench our theme song is the

0:43:01.200 --> 0:43:04.359
<v Speaker 1>gangsta grass version Of The One Who's holding The star

0:43:04.640 --> 0:43:08.759
<v Speaker 1>By Leo schofield And Kevin. Herrick Darrel woolman is investigative.

0:43:08.800 --> 0:43:12.600
<v Speaker 1>Producer our head Of marketing And operations Is Jeff. Cliburn

0:43:12.920 --> 0:43:15.920
<v Speaker 1>Is Ismay guarderama is our social media, director and Our

0:43:15.960 --> 0:43:19.920
<v Speaker 1>Social media manager Is Sarah. Gibbons Andrew nelson is art,

0:43:19.960 --> 0:43:24.080
<v Speaker 1>director with additional production help From Jackie, Paully Kara kornhaber

0:43:24.120 --> 0:43:28.200
<v Speaker 1>And Kathleen. Fink be sure to follow us On, instagram, TikTok,

0:43:28.239 --> 0:43:31.640
<v Speaker 1>facebook and threads At lava For good and follow me

0:43:31.800 --> 0:43:35.279
<v Speaker 1>At Maggie. Freeling and we know there's a lot of

0:43:35.400 --> 0:43:37.320
<v Speaker 1>names for you to keep up with in this, series

0:43:37.719 --> 0:43:41.080
<v Speaker 1>so for a detailed list of, characters please go to

0:43:41.160 --> 0:43:42.200
<v Speaker 1>our show notes.

0:44:06.320 --> 0:44:08.960
<v Speaker 3>By a

0:44:14.880 --> 0:44:18.160
<v Speaker 9>Gold bad