WEBVTT - It Could Happen Here Weekly 80 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:02.680 Hey, everybody, Robert Evans here and I wanted to let 0:00:02.759 --> 0:00:06.359 you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode 0:00:06.519 --> 0:00:09.440 of the week that just happened is here in one 0:00:09.520 --> 0:00:13.280 convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to 0:00:13.320 --> 0:00:15.800 listen to in a long stretch if you want. If 0:00:15.800 --> 0:00:17.720 you've been listening to the episodes every day this week, 0:00:17.760 --> 0:00:19.520 there's going to be nothing new here for you, but 0:00:19.880 --> 0:00:21.239 you can make your own decisions. 0:00:26.400 --> 0:00:28.440 This is the beginning of the podcast, I'm sure. 0:00:29.600 --> 0:00:31.960 Yeah, I'm James, and this is it. 0:00:31.920 --> 0:00:35.000 Could happen here today. We are going to be talking 0:00:35.040 --> 0:00:38.800 about the recent events that have happened in Palestine and 0:00:38.840 --> 0:00:42.760 the recent acts of terror that the IDEF has committed 0:00:42.800 --> 0:00:46.600 against Palestinians. So yeah, thanks for joining me, James, I 0:00:46.640 --> 0:00:47.239 appreciate it. 0:00:47.400 --> 0:00:50.080 Yeah, it's going to be another fun one from us. 0:00:50.880 --> 0:00:52.559 I know. I think that's like our thing. It's just 0:00:53.320 --> 0:00:54.400 uplifting podcasts. 0:00:54.440 --> 0:00:56.520 If they don't leave depressed, we're not doing our job, right. 0:00:57.000 --> 0:00:59.760 Yeah. Yeah, if you're driving, maybe pulevi because we're going 0:00:59.800 --> 0:01:00.720 to try make you cry. 0:01:01.200 --> 0:01:03.680 Yeah, but no really, I mean, like, in all seriousness, 0:01:03.840 --> 0:01:06.560 there has been some shocking footage that has come out 0:01:06.560 --> 0:01:10.040 of Palestine this month. On April fifth, in particular, there 0:01:10.080 --> 0:01:12.920 was footage that emerged from a luxA mosque, which is 0:01:12.959 --> 0:01:17.480 the third holiest site in Islam, and it is within 0:01:17.600 --> 0:01:21.479 occupied East Jerusalem. The compound is within that area, and 0:01:21.640 --> 0:01:25.800 the videos are showing Israeli security forces mercilessly beating Palestinian 0:01:25.800 --> 0:01:30.240 worshippers and that violence left at least twelve Palestinians injured 0:01:30.760 --> 0:01:33.720 and obviously just fueled more public anger, and three of 0:01:33.720 --> 0:01:35.480 those Palestinians had to go to the hospital. 0:01:36.280 --> 0:01:40.240 Yeah, and if people haven't seen the videos, like you 0:01:40.319 --> 0:01:44.280 don't have to watch them really, but it's pretty horrific. 0:01:44.400 --> 0:01:47.120 Like we were just talking before we started about how 0:01:47.920 --> 0:01:50.840 monstrous you have to be, like to stand there and 0:01:50.880 --> 0:01:52.960 whack someone with a stick again and again and again, 0:01:53.240 --> 0:01:56.920 especially when they're not particularly any threat to you other 0:01:56.960 --> 0:01:58.880 than you know, you perceive their existence to the threat 0:01:58.920 --> 0:02:03.680 to your state project. Yeah, and they're just trying to 0:02:03.720 --> 0:02:04.600 go to the mosque. 0:02:05.040 --> 0:02:08.960 Yeah, they literally just there there, there, there's no weapons, 0:02:08.600 --> 0:02:11.520 They're trying to pray. They're praying, and yeah, I feel 0:02:11.520 --> 0:02:14.400 like prayer is a very vulnerable state to be in, 0:02:14.560 --> 0:02:17.120 you know what I mean, Like it's not it's kind 0:02:17.120 --> 0:02:20.520 of like, I don't know's it was just really upsetting. 0:02:20.560 --> 0:02:22.880 And and you're right about the dehumanization thing, because we 0:02:22.880 --> 0:02:24.720 were because a gun would make it so much easier 0:02:24.720 --> 0:02:29.080 to kill someone, right, But to purposely injure someone with 0:02:29.160 --> 0:02:32.640 your own hands, I think is us for sure. 0:02:32.760 --> 0:02:34.440 I think maybe it's when a lot of people in 0:02:34.480 --> 0:02:36.920 America at least, like it was very formative to me 0:02:36.960 --> 0:02:39.359 the first time I saw a cop fucking battering someone 0:02:39.400 --> 0:02:42.880 with a stick, you know. And I think if a 0:02:42.880 --> 0:02:45.160 lot of people in America maybe had that experience firsthand 0:02:45.240 --> 0:02:47.080 a couple of years ago, and it maybe changed their 0:02:47.080 --> 0:02:52.440 perspective on things. But yeah, this is what colonialism does everywhere, right, 0:02:52.480 --> 0:02:55.600 And it's that what's happening here and in Ramadan as well, right. 0:02:55.560 --> 0:02:57.840 Like yeah, and this is kind of like a trend, 0:02:58.160 --> 0:03:02.239 like there's no excuse for doing and people always try 0:03:02.280 --> 0:03:04.680 to point fingers about like who's the bad guy here? 0:03:04.800 --> 0:03:09.400 But on the other side, rockets were fired from Gaza 0:03:09.400 --> 0:03:12.400 and Lebanon as a warning sign after this escalation happened. 0:03:12.440 --> 0:03:15.239 It was literally a warning like please don't do this, 0:03:15.240 --> 0:03:18.840 this is wrong. But Israel didn't listen, and the following 0:03:18.919 --> 0:03:22.960 day Israel repeated the violent attack on Hada'maschetif, which is 0:03:23.000 --> 0:03:27.000 what Arabs call that compound. It's also called Temple Mount 0:03:27.760 --> 0:03:31.440 for the people of Jewish faith. And yeah, they and 0:03:31.480 --> 0:03:34.880 then as that was happening, the following day, Israel carried 0:03:34.920 --> 0:03:37.720 out air raids on Gaza and Lebanon. So not only 0:03:37.760 --> 0:03:39.720 did they not heed the warning, it was like a 0:03:39.920 --> 0:03:42.920 slap in the face. And I'm going to talk a 0:03:42.960 --> 0:03:44.960 little bit about the experience that some people had in 0:03:44.960 --> 0:03:47.840 Gaza from this, but that's a little bit later. But 0:03:47.880 --> 0:03:49.760 I just want to like put that out there that 0:03:50.440 --> 0:03:54.200 when people are like, oh Hamas or whatever, they fired rockets, 0:03:54.200 --> 0:03:56.120 It's like, what do you what do you expect people 0:03:56.160 --> 0:03:58.240 push in a corner to do? I just that's what 0:03:58.280 --> 0:03:59.560 I always think about. 0:03:59.680 --> 0:04:03.440 I don't know, Well, yeah, and if harmasafis rockets sort of, 0:04:03.640 --> 0:04:05.800 you know, does that mean everyone should be collectively punished? 0:04:05.800 --> 0:04:07.760 Like you shouldn't be able to practice your faith now? 0:04:08.000 --> 0:04:11.119 Like that that's that doesn't make any fucking sense. And like, yeah, 0:04:11.160 --> 0:04:13.800 how do you react if you've seen your grandmother beaten 0:04:13.840 --> 0:04:16.760 with a fucking stick at church or synagogue, on mask 0:04:16.839 --> 0:04:20.120 wherever you go. Especially Yeah, like during Ramadan at a 0:04:20.120 --> 0:04:23.600 time when like this particular place on earth has got 0:04:23.640 --> 0:04:27.480 like that all the Abrahmic faiths are like looking at 0:04:27.480 --> 0:04:30.120 this place and trying to do their religious stuff there, 0:04:30.520 --> 0:04:34.080 and like I'm not a particularly religious guy, but surely 0:04:34.080 --> 0:04:36.400 there's no religion which way, like the thing you should 0:04:36.400 --> 0:04:38.279 be doing at your Holy days is beaten people with 0:04:38.279 --> 0:04:38.680 a stick. 0:04:38.800 --> 0:04:43.080 Yeah, like even if you're not a Muslim, that that 0:04:43.200 --> 0:04:46.880 area is still really sacred to both Christians and Jewish people, 0:04:47.480 --> 0:04:51.640 and you would think that Jews wouldn't want to be 0:04:51.760 --> 0:04:54.480 horrific on that area in general, you know what I mean. 0:04:54.720 --> 0:04:57.480 Like it's yeah, it's just like even even if that 0:04:57.520 --> 0:05:00.480 little area is not particular sacred to you, like it's 0:05:00.480 --> 0:05:03.720 still all sacred in my opinion, and I feel like 0:05:03.760 --> 0:05:04.600 people forget that. 0:05:05.080 --> 0:05:10.200 I don't know, Yeah, it takes a real like it's 0:05:10.320 --> 0:05:13.760 an interesting sirrong word. It's the juxtaposition of these sacred 0:05:13.800 --> 0:05:15.920 spaces and then it's incredible, like it's somewhere I've been 0:05:15.960 --> 0:05:20.839 when I was younger, and like all around that part 0:05:20.880 --> 0:05:23.680 of Jerusalem or around Drews, my guess, is juxtaposition of 0:05:23.720 --> 0:05:25.839 like sacred spaces, which is supposed to be peaceful and 0:05:25.880 --> 0:05:30.880 calm and reflective and then people doing the violence of colonialism, 0:05:31.120 --> 0:05:35.520 like right there, and it's just such a profound kind 0:05:35.520 --> 0:05:38.640 of whiplash every time you move from one to the other. 0:05:38.960 --> 0:05:41.560 And yeah, because they're the extremes of both. It's like 0:05:41.800 --> 0:05:44.120 one of the most sacred and one of the most violent. 0:05:44.279 --> 0:05:47.599 It's not there's no like wishy washiness about it. But 0:05:48.360 --> 0:05:50.720 let me continue, Okay, So after this happened, the Arab 0:05:50.800 --> 0:05:53.760 League held an emergency meeting to discuss these air raids. 0:05:54.000 --> 0:05:56.520 And just in case you don't know, the Arab League 0:05:56.520 --> 0:05:59.000 is a regional organization in the Arab world. It has 0:05:59.040 --> 0:06:02.039 twenty two members, but Syria hasn't been a member since 0:06:02.080 --> 0:06:05.960 twenty eleven. That could be another episode another time, but 0:06:06.240 --> 0:06:07.960 that's what the Arab League is, in case someone out 0:06:07.960 --> 0:06:12.160 there needed a refresher. But the League condemned the attack, 0:06:12.200 --> 0:06:14.520 and it said in a statement that quote the extremist 0:06:14.560 --> 0:06:17.600 approaches that control the policy of the Israeli government will 0:06:17.680 --> 0:06:21.040 lead to widespread confrontations with the Palestinians if they are 0:06:21.040 --> 0:06:25.200 not put to an end. And at least four hundred 0:06:25.200 --> 0:06:28.479 Palestinians were arrested on Wednesday of April fifth when this happened, 0:06:28.720 --> 0:06:31.840 and they remain in Israeli custody. They're being held at 0:06:31.880 --> 0:06:36.280 a police station and occupied East Jerusalem for no reason. 0:06:36.560 --> 0:06:38.640 It's never really for a reason. It's very rare. 0:06:38.880 --> 0:06:39.839 That's for a reason. 0:06:39.960 --> 0:06:45.239 But yeah, Palestinian witnesses said Israeli forces use excessive force, 0:06:45.360 --> 0:06:49.400 including stun grenades and tear gas, causing suffocation injuries to 0:06:49.440 --> 0:06:52.159 the worshippers and then beating them with batons and rifles. 0:06:52.880 --> 0:06:55.200 There was a twenty four year old student who has 0:06:55.240 --> 0:06:59.280 attained beca Oeis and he said, we were conducting Ichtikaf, 0:06:59.360 --> 0:07:02.600 which is the really religious Muslim worship that is reserved 0:07:02.680 --> 0:07:05.960 for Ramadan, is very sacred, and he said we were 0:07:05.960 --> 0:07:10.240 conducting Ictigaf at the Aluxa because it's Ramadan. The army 0:07:10.280 --> 0:07:12.559 broke the upper windows of the mosque and began throwing 0:07:12.600 --> 0:07:14.720 stunt grenades at us. They made us slide down on 0:07:14.720 --> 0:07:16.960 the ground and they handcuffed us one by one and 0:07:17.000 --> 0:07:19.560 took us all out. They kept swearing at us during 0:07:19.560 --> 0:07:23.320 this time. It was very barbaric. And then an elderly 0:07:23.360 --> 0:07:26.880 woman said, according to this reporter, she was like catching 0:07:26.920 --> 0:07:30.560 her breath outside and in tears and she said, I 0:07:30.640 --> 0:07:32.840 was sitting on a chair reciting in the Quran. They 0:07:32.880 --> 0:07:35.160 hurled stun grenades and one of them hit my chest. 0:07:36.040 --> 0:07:39.320 And this is like, there's no discrimination, you know what 0:07:39.320 --> 0:07:41.760 I mean. It's not there's no discrimination to their hate. 0:07:41.800 --> 0:07:44.280 Everyone and is under the same umbrella. If they're Palestinians, 0:07:44.280 --> 0:07:45.920 if they're Muslims, it doesn't matter. 0:07:46.480 --> 0:07:50.560 Yeah, you can't be like using taar gas selectively in 0:07:50.600 --> 0:07:52.400 a place of worship. But that's not how that worked. 0:07:52.680 --> 0:07:55.600 You kind of break windows and throwing ta gas. By definition, 0:07:55.680 --> 0:07:58.120 you're targeting every single person there for the crime of 0:07:58.160 --> 0:07:58.800 being there. 0:07:59.240 --> 0:08:02.480 Yeah, there's no excuse of like we we were shooting 0:08:02.520 --> 0:08:04.080 back at shooters, you know what I mean, that's not 0:08:04.120 --> 0:08:09.040 an excuse or they could use. It's like you're infiltrating 0:08:09.320 --> 0:08:13.480 a place where people are literally trying to pray, Like 0:08:13.520 --> 0:08:15.120 there's no there's no. 0:08:15.040 --> 0:08:19.160 Excuse, like old ladies, you haven't eaten all day, Yeah, 0:08:19.160 --> 0:08:21.240 I had a drink of water. They're not like and 0:08:21.400 --> 0:08:24.320 you shouldn't be threatened by those people, like yeah, but 0:08:24.400 --> 0:08:26.560 if their existence as Muslims in the place that you 0:08:26.560 --> 0:08:28.320 don't think they should be allowed to exist, it's threatening 0:08:28.360 --> 0:08:34.640 to you then because you're doing a colonialism. 0:08:34.640 --> 0:08:37.200 Yeah, and you're I mean, you're the bad guid in 0:08:37.200 --> 0:08:42.000 the situation in this case. And the Palestinian Red Cross 0:08:42.120 --> 0:08:45.640 said that Israeli forces prevented medics from reaching the mosque. 0:08:45.960 --> 0:08:48.480 And this has happened before. As James mentioned to me 0:08:48.520 --> 0:08:52.280 before the podcast, it's like a very typical characteristic thing 0:08:52.280 --> 0:08:56.199 of the IDF to block paramedics or aid to come 0:08:56.280 --> 0:08:56.840 help people. 0:08:57.320 --> 0:09:01.440 Yeah, people want to look more at like a podcast alumni. 0:09:01.840 --> 0:09:05.280 Tarik has done a lot of first aid working Gaza 0:09:06.080 --> 0:09:08.320 and he's written about it on his medium page. I'll 0:09:08.320 --> 0:09:10.400 find a link and we'll put it in our sources. Yes, please, 0:09:11.160 --> 0:09:14.680 you can see some first hand accounts of how difficult 0:09:14.720 --> 0:09:17.439 it is to like again, right that I don't really 0:09:17.520 --> 0:09:21.240 see how you could find it objectionable to help someone 0:09:21.280 --> 0:09:24.480 who's been hurt. Yeah, but yeah, it seems to be 0:09:24.480 --> 0:09:27.400 a recurrent thing. Yeah, it's it is. 0:09:28.240 --> 0:09:32.640 And what I always find amusing is Israel's statements after 0:09:32.720 --> 0:09:36.240 things like this happen. They're always so comical and so stupid. 0:09:36.280 --> 0:09:39.720 And this time they said when the police entered, stones 0:09:39.760 --> 0:09:42.640 were thrown at them and fireworks were fired from inside 0:09:42.640 --> 0:09:45.800 the mosque by a large group of agitators. It also 0:09:45.880 --> 0:09:48.400 said that a police officer was wounded in the leg, 0:09:49.280 --> 0:09:52.480 like womp, womp, are you kidding me? Like, I don't 0:09:52.480 --> 0:09:55.480 care about his fucking leg. I don't like they always 0:09:55.480 --> 0:09:59.160 mentioned stones. I'm so tired of them mentioning stones and rocks, 0:09:59.360 --> 0:10:03.760 like shut up, no, it's time for army at the 0:10:03.760 --> 0:10:06.199 Middle East. And it's like they hurled stones at us, 0:10:06.240 --> 0:10:06.920 like fuck off. 0:10:07.679 --> 0:10:09.920 Yeah, you have the fucking iron dome and a kid 0:10:09.920 --> 0:10:13.240 has thrown us a rock at you, like and like 0:10:13.320 --> 0:10:15.319 that's the stone thing in particular. I don't know why that. 0:10:15.480 --> 0:10:17.240 It's something the Border patrol use a lot when they 0:10:17.480 --> 0:10:20.600 kill people at the border right through a stone, Like 0:10:20.640 --> 0:10:24.959 it's this is a commonality of training between these two organizations, right, 0:10:25.000 --> 0:10:29.000 but like, yeah, what you also like when we entered 0:10:29.040 --> 0:10:31.400 the mosques and people threw stones at us, like what 0:10:31.440 --> 0:10:34.319 were you fucking doing in the masque? Like why were 0:10:34.320 --> 0:10:34.800 you there? 0:10:35.440 --> 0:10:38.880 Like and I'll get into the rules later, but there 0:10:38.880 --> 0:10:41.240 are very specific times because this place is sacred to 0:10:41.240 --> 0:10:43.920 so many people, there are specific times for each faith 0:10:43.960 --> 0:10:46.960 to enter and use the compound, and so they weren't 0:10:47.240 --> 0:10:50.280 supposed to be there and they were beating people to 0:10:50.360 --> 0:10:54.720 make way for Jewish people to enter and have their time. 0:10:54.840 --> 0:10:56.600 But that's not the way to do it. And I'm 0:10:56.640 --> 0:10:59.160 pretty sure they weren't supposed to be there at that time. 0:10:59.280 --> 0:11:02.600 But I mentioned this in a previous episode. The government 0:11:02.840 --> 0:11:06.520 is more far right than ever, and so the nationalists 0:11:06.600 --> 0:11:10.720 that are like encouraging violence are usually the ones that 0:11:10.760 --> 0:11:15.319 are succeeding. In response to this, Jordan, and Jordan acts 0:11:15.360 --> 0:11:18.920 as a custodian of Jerusalem's Christian and Muslim holy sites. 0:11:19.160 --> 0:11:21.719 This is under a status quot agreement that has been 0:11:21.720 --> 0:11:25.439 in place since the nineteen sixty seven war. They condemned 0:11:25.559 --> 0:11:29.560 the flagrant storming of the compound and then Egypt they 0:11:29.600 --> 0:11:32.880 called for an immediate halt to Israel's blatant assault on 0:11:33.240 --> 0:11:37.200 XA Worshipper's But other than that, there hasn't been much. 0:11:37.280 --> 0:11:39.400 Like the US said was like, I think I don't 0:11:39.440 --> 0:11:41.480 know the exact quote that anyone in the US said, 0:11:41.520 --> 0:11:43.840 but I'm sure they were like, oh no, this shouldn't happen, 0:11:43.880 --> 0:11:49.040 and then they move on. It's never really any kind 0:11:49.080 --> 0:11:53.760 of helpful action or reprimand or anything. 0:11:54.160 --> 0:11:57.120 Yeah. One from Koreine Jean Pierre, which is we urge 0:11:57.160 --> 0:12:01.719 all sides to avoid further escalation, which why was this 0:12:01.800 --> 0:12:04.199 Why do you even bother saying shit when you like, 0:12:04.480 --> 0:12:07.319 don't escalate when they come into your moscue and tea? 0:12:07.320 --> 0:12:09.000 I guess you would throw stung grenades at you, Like 0:12:09.160 --> 0:12:10.160 what are they supposed to do? 0:12:10.400 --> 0:12:14.480 Like sincombay a, Yeah, well so why it's like, it's 0:12:14.520 --> 0:12:16.240 like the same situation we had a couple of years 0:12:16.280 --> 0:12:19.640 ago where you have the police that are in swat 0:12:19.640 --> 0:12:23.520 gear and fully armed with people that aren't and you're 0:12:23.559 --> 0:12:27.200 saying like this both sides thing like both sides shouldn't 0:12:27.240 --> 0:12:28.719 do violence. 0:12:28.320 --> 0:12:31.760 Or escalate or whatever. And I think it's so stupid 0:12:31.800 --> 0:12:34.560 when that happens, because there's a clear aggressor and a 0:12:34.640 --> 0:12:39.640 clear victim in that situation. But as I mentioned earlier, 0:12:39.840 --> 0:12:43.480 Palestinians see a luxamosque as one of the few national 0:12:43.520 --> 0:12:48.199 symbols over which they retain some element of control. They are, however, 0:12:48.480 --> 0:12:52.440 fearful of a slow encroachment by Jewish groups, and this 0:12:52.520 --> 0:12:55.200 is what happened at the Ibrahimi Mosque, which is also 0:12:55.240 --> 0:12:58.160 called the Cave of the Patriarchs in Hebron, and in 0:12:58.240 --> 0:13:01.640 nineteen sixty seven half of them was turned into a synagogue. 0:13:01.720 --> 0:13:05.360 So Palestinians are worried about that happening again. And they 0:13:05.400 --> 0:13:08.600 are also worried about far right Israeli movements that want 0:13:08.640 --> 0:13:12.240 to demolish the Islamic structures in elkximosqu and build a 0:13:12.320 --> 0:13:13.560 Jewish temple in their place. 0:13:13.600 --> 0:13:14.360 So it's not just. 0:13:14.400 --> 0:13:17.160 Like rumors of this happening. There are nationalists in the 0:13:17.200 --> 0:13:19.960 far right government and the people that they follow that 0:13:20.080 --> 0:13:23.480 want that to happen. And by now it is quite 0:13:23.520 --> 0:13:27.000 clear that American efforts to prevent another escalation in Palestine 0:13:27.040 --> 0:13:31.199 is failing, and it's not the Palestinian side that's responsible. 0:13:32.080 --> 0:13:35.760 Prime Minister and Yahoo, his desperate bid to cling to 0:13:35.840 --> 0:13:39.400 power is not conducive to any de escalation that anyone 0:13:39.440 --> 0:13:44.760 can ever encourage. All he's doing is accelerating the process 0:13:44.760 --> 0:13:48.920 of violence and triggering instability, not just in East Jerusalem 0:13:48.960 --> 0:13:52.240 but like all over the state of Palestine. And Okay, 0:13:52.240 --> 0:13:54.040 before we move on, let's take our first break before 0:13:54.080 --> 0:13:59.160 I forget BRB. We are back. I ended the last 0:13:59.160 --> 0:14:03.080 segment talking about how the US diplomacy is failing an 0:14:03.160 --> 0:14:07.079 understatement of the century. But for more than a year now, 0:14:07.440 --> 0:14:10.959 the tensions and occupied Palestine territories have been very high. 0:14:11.480 --> 0:14:15.080 The arned Palestinian resistance has been active, especially in Jenin 0:14:15.120 --> 0:14:18.480 and Nablus, and Israeli security forces have carried out incessant 0:14:18.559 --> 0:14:23.080 violent raids of Palestinian towns and villages. I said it's 0:14:23.120 --> 0:14:25.760 in a previous episode, but the UN called twenty twenty 0:14:25.800 --> 0:14:28.560 two the deadliest year for the occupied West Bank in 0:14:28.600 --> 0:14:32.120 the past sixteen years, and these rarely Army killed at 0:14:32.160 --> 0:14:35.360 least one hundred and seventy Palestinians, including thirty children, and 0:14:35.440 --> 0:14:39.360 injured at least nine thousand people. The first two months 0:14:39.360 --> 0:14:41.640 of this year have been the most violent since the 0:14:41.720 --> 0:14:45.840 year two thousand, with sixty five Palestinians killed, including thirteen children. 0:14:46.520 --> 0:14:49.760 This year, the Muslim holy month of Ramadan coincides with 0:14:49.840 --> 0:14:55.040 the Jewish holiday of Passover. Hadamashadif Aka Temple Mount is significant, 0:14:55.080 --> 0:14:58.200 as I said, for both Muslims and Jews. Muslims believe 0:14:58.200 --> 0:15:01.400 it's the place where Muhammad ascended to heaven, and the 0:15:01.560 --> 0:15:06.160 Jewish people believe that it's the site of two biblical temples. Regardless, 0:15:06.640 --> 0:15:10.720 it contains the Aluxamos currently and it's been there since 0:15:10.840 --> 0:15:14.200 ten thirty five a d. And it's again the third 0:15:14.280 --> 0:15:18.640 holyest site for Muslims and an incredibly sacred place for 0:15:18.720 --> 0:15:22.640 prayer and worship. It's I'm sure there's like an energy there. 0:15:22.680 --> 0:15:24.400 Like I'm not religious, but I kind of feel that 0:15:24.520 --> 0:15:27.880 energy sometimes where like everyone thinks or believes in a 0:15:27.920 --> 0:15:32.280 place and it becomes important just as a place. It 0:15:32.320 --> 0:15:35.200 doesn't even need to be explained, I think in general. 0:15:35.360 --> 0:15:37.360 And maybe I'm biased because I was raised Muslim, but 0:15:37.480 --> 0:15:41.600 still I think it's silly to pretend that this is 0:15:42.760 --> 0:15:46.280 at this current point in time, like there's a reason 0:15:46.280 --> 0:15:48.880 for them not to be there, or there's a reason 0:15:48.880 --> 0:15:51.240 for like a synagogue to be built instead. 0:15:51.280 --> 0:15:53.960 Like I think it's just so stupid. 0:15:55.000 --> 0:15:58.000 My vocabulary isn't expansive enough to actually describe how you feel, 0:15:58.000 --> 0:15:58.720 but you know what I mean. 0:15:59.240 --> 0:16:03.040 Yeah, it's yeah, And it's such a barbarous thing to 0:16:03.080 --> 0:16:05.320 do to take this thing and like to destroy it 0:16:05.360 --> 0:16:07.520 that's so special to literally. 0:16:07.160 --> 0:16:08.360 More than a billion people. 0:16:08.640 --> 0:16:10.520 Yeah, and be like now fuck you, like we have 0:16:10.600 --> 0:16:12.400 more guns, so we're doing our thing now. 0:16:13.320 --> 0:16:13.640 Yeah. 0:16:13.960 --> 0:16:17.040 And it was correctly speculated because of this coincision of 0:16:17.120 --> 0:16:20.360 Ramadan and Passover that it would be a potential flashpoint 0:16:20.400 --> 0:16:24.760 for violence, and two regional meetings were held under United 0:16:24.800 --> 0:16:29.440 States supervision to hope to preclude any major escalations from 0:16:29.480 --> 0:16:35.960 this time, and it didn't work obviously. On February twenty sixth, Palestinian, Israeli, Jordanian, 0:16:36.040 --> 0:16:39.960 Egyptian and American officials met in the Georganian city of Akaba. 0:16:40.600 --> 0:16:44.080 They emphasize a commitment to a quote de escalation on 0:16:44.120 --> 0:16:48.680 the ground to prevent further violence, and Israel pledged to 0:16:48.760 --> 0:16:53.640 stop authorizing new illegal settlements in Palestinian territories for six months. 0:16:55.320 --> 0:16:58.040 On March nineteenth, the second regional meeting happened and it 0:16:58.080 --> 0:17:02.080 was held in Charmelchech, where the Palestinian and Israeli officials 0:17:02.080 --> 0:17:04.800 committed to uphold the status quo of the Holy sites 0:17:04.800 --> 0:17:08.600 in Jerusalem quote, both in words and in practice, and 0:17:08.640 --> 0:17:12.240 they emphasize the quote necessity of both Israelis and Palestinians 0:17:12.240 --> 0:17:15.760 to actively prevent any actions that would disrupt the sanctity 0:17:15.760 --> 0:17:18.480 of these sites in general, but especially during the upcoming 0:17:18.480 --> 0:17:22.119 holy month of Ramadan. I feel like every time Israel 0:17:22.160 --> 0:17:25.720 says anything, you can't actually believe anything they say. There's 0:17:26.119 --> 0:17:29.800 pledges don't matter, the UNS labeling them as the partment 0:17:29.840 --> 0:17:32.879 APARTI you say doesn't matter, nothing really matters, because it's 0:17:32.880 --> 0:17:36.000 all empty words. And nhen Yahu's government hasn't been upholding 0:17:36.160 --> 0:17:39.119 the status quo in words or in practice. He is 0:17:39.160 --> 0:17:42.000 allied with far right and alter religious forces that have 0:17:42.080 --> 0:17:45.679 openly stated that the Israeli recognition of these Urginian gardenship 0:17:45.760 --> 0:17:48.520 of the holy sites was a historic mistake that they 0:17:48.520 --> 0:17:52.439 are bound on rectifying. So not only are they meeting 0:17:53.160 --> 0:17:56.280 just like to say face, I think they've openly said 0:17:56.400 --> 0:17:59.920 that we don't respect this group that is being held together. 0:18:00.800 --> 0:18:02.919 We want we want to we want to change it. 0:18:03.040 --> 0:18:03.360 We don't. 0:18:03.560 --> 0:18:06.240 Like, I don't understand how anyone can believe anything this 0:18:06.320 --> 0:18:07.480 country says. 0:18:07.359 --> 0:18:11.440 Even within Israel, right like people who can recognize that 0:18:11.560 --> 0:18:14.800 this current like Nenyaku coalition, it is opposed to the 0:18:14.840 --> 0:18:18.600 basics of their constitution and their democracy. And like when 0:18:18.720 --> 0:18:22.080 when you have people within the IDF being like, now, dog, 0:18:22.160 --> 0:18:24.800 you've gone too far like that, I think that that 0:18:24.960 --> 0:18:28.800 says a lot. But like they're not saying you've gone 0:18:28.800 --> 0:18:32.880 too far in yet throwing stung grenades into a mosque, right, like, yeah, 0:18:33.240 --> 0:18:36.280 he will get away with pushing that ship further and 0:18:36.359 --> 0:18:37.119 further and. 0:18:37.480 --> 0:18:38.800 He has gone away with it. 0:18:38.800 --> 0:18:42.440 It's it's atrocious and will continue to when he gets 0:18:42.800 --> 0:18:50.359 domestic pushback, right like, because like aggressive Zionism is the 0:18:50.480 --> 0:18:55.520 kind of unifying like the grand unifying policy that brings 0:18:55.520 --> 0:18:59.480 people together for him, his coalition. So he's going to 0:18:59.720 --> 0:19:03.200 hell keep doing this, and like it would be irrational 0:19:03.320 --> 0:19:06.560 to expect people in Palestine not to respond. I know 0:19:06.560 --> 0:19:09.000 there are lots of new groups that are like popping 0:19:09.119 --> 0:19:13.960 up to fight back, which you know, you'd have to 0:19:14.040 --> 0:19:16.520 be incredibly naive to expect that not to happen. 0:19:16.880 --> 0:19:21.359 Yeah, it's just what happens when you push people in 0:19:21.400 --> 0:19:24.960 a corner. And then I think what they actually like 0:19:25.359 --> 0:19:28.000 is an excuse to fight back too. So like when 0:19:28.040 --> 0:19:32.120 these when these groups do attack, that's always their excuse 0:19:32.200 --> 0:19:34.360 as to why they're attacking. So it's almost like they're 0:19:34.400 --> 0:19:38.359 provoking an attack on purpose to give them a reason 0:19:38.400 --> 0:19:43.239 to attack, which is stupid. Again, that word is the 0:19:43.280 --> 0:19:44.640 only word in my head right now. 0:19:44.640 --> 0:19:47.760 Okay, yeah, yeah, I was thinking about this thing that 0:19:47.800 --> 0:19:50.960 they do again, which seems to be like sticking a 0:19:51.000 --> 0:19:53.120 middle finger up. It's like that they like to withhold 0:19:53.160 --> 0:19:56.639 the bodies of people they've killed. Uh huh, yes, quite often, 0:19:57.280 --> 0:19:59.960 and like I just don't, like, what do you expect 0:20:00.160 --> 0:20:03.840 to gain by doing that other than just being unfathomably cruel. 0:20:04.080 --> 0:20:08.200 And the burial process for Muslims is very sacred, it's 0:20:08.200 --> 0:20:12.480 a very sacred ritual, and so they're purposely denying them 0:20:12.480 --> 0:20:12.800 of that. 0:20:13.480 --> 0:20:15.640 It's like, I mean, did you Neva convention. It's it's 0:20:15.760 --> 0:20:21.400 like a pretend thing. It doesn't matter, but it's still 0:20:21.400 --> 0:20:23.760 in humane, right, doesn't matter if some some people, so 0:20:23.920 --> 0:20:25.800 some old white dudes a long time ago, decided it 0:20:25.840 --> 0:20:27.800 was in humane or not, because I think anyone with 0:20:28.119 --> 0:20:30.240 Ed Sgudon could be like, man, that's so that's fucked up. 0:20:31.080 --> 0:20:36.000 Yeah, I agree. Yeah, And speaking of the Zionist movement 0:20:36.040 --> 0:20:39.520 and the far right movement, twenty twenty three started with 0:20:39.680 --> 0:20:43.200 the far right Minister of National Security at Tamara Berg Gavid. 0:20:43.480 --> 0:20:47.920 He entered Al Haramashadif and this provoked public anger across Palestine. 0:20:48.200 --> 0:20:51.280 Under his watch, the raids by Israeli settlers on the 0:20:51.320 --> 0:20:55.400 Muslim holy site of Alaxamosque. They were under the protection 0:20:55.480 --> 0:20:59.959 of the Israeli security forces and they've only intestified Bengavie. 0:21:00.160 --> 0:21:03.400 In other extremists in the government are in Yaho's only 0:21:03.480 --> 0:21:06.200 chance to stay in power and to avoid going to 0:21:06.280 --> 0:21:09.080 jail for corruption. And they know that, and they're taking 0:21:09.119 --> 0:21:12.400 advantage of the situation to support by all means possible 0:21:12.440 --> 0:21:15.199 the violence that the Jewish settlers have unleashed onto the 0:21:15.200 --> 0:21:18.679 Palestinian people in the occupied West Bank and continue to 0:21:18.880 --> 0:21:22.439 erode the status quo at the Holy sites. All of 0:21:22.480 --> 0:21:25.000 this is an aim to establish new facts on the 0:21:25.000 --> 0:21:29.439 ground aka full Israeli control. All of this is with 0:21:29.520 --> 0:21:33.960 the aim of establishing full Israeli control. And Yahoo does 0:21:34.000 --> 0:21:37.399 not mind this violence. He encourages and likes it for 0:21:37.480 --> 0:21:42.040 his own means. For him, violence is a useful distraction 0:21:42.200 --> 0:21:45.560 from the anti government protests which have played his sixth 0:21:45.640 --> 0:21:50.000 term in office because I did an election episode about 0:21:50.000 --> 0:21:53.560 Israel that you can always listen to. But net and 0:21:53.600 --> 0:21:56.480 Yahoo being in power wasn't supposed to happen again is 0:21:56.720 --> 0:22:00.879 the main thing. And him being in power and bringing 0:22:00.920 --> 0:22:04.359 in this terrible government. There's a reason why it's all 0:22:04.359 --> 0:22:09.560 happening so intensely. Yeah, it's just years of Zionist encouragement 0:22:09.840 --> 0:22:12.600 finally coming to a head, especially now that a lot 0:22:12.640 --> 0:22:16.760 of Zionists are in power and war is not really 0:22:16.840 --> 0:22:20.840 in Israel's interest. It's currently preoccupied with the Palestinian resistance 0:22:20.880 --> 0:22:24.200 in the West Bank. It's worried about Iran's military presence 0:22:24.320 --> 0:22:28.320 and diplomatic successes in the region. It's been striking Syria regularly, 0:22:28.520 --> 0:22:31.960 even just days after the devastating earthquakes that happened this year. 0:22:32.320 --> 0:22:36.320 They bomb Syria and they want to curb Iranian influence. 0:22:36.440 --> 0:22:40.439 And they're also concerned about Hezbollah's role in a recent 0:22:40.520 --> 0:22:45.640 roadside bomb explosion near the border with Lebanon. So starting 0:22:45.680 --> 0:22:49.840 a religious war quote unquote does not suit their I 0:22:49.880 --> 0:22:53.760 don't understand the motivation there, other than to further a 0:22:53.800 --> 0:22:58.160 certain dominance and to scare the Palestinians. On the other side, 0:22:58.320 --> 0:23:02.399 Hamas and Gaza has tried to take a measured response. Again, 0:23:02.480 --> 0:23:06.280 it warned Israel against further raids all in Alxa, and 0:23:06.560 --> 0:23:09.120 it is reluctant to escalate this because it would take 0:23:09.119 --> 0:23:11.760 attention from the Palestinian resistance in the West Bank. Because 0:23:11.760 --> 0:23:14.920 Hamas sees the main area of conflict with Israel as 0:23:15.080 --> 0:23:18.040 the conflict in the West Bank, armed attacks in the 0:23:18.040 --> 0:23:21.760 occupied territories cause much more anxiety to the Israeli authorities 0:23:21.800 --> 0:23:25.400 than a confrontation with Gaza. Hamas's strategy now is to 0:23:25.480 --> 0:23:29.200 encourage a popular Palestinian mombilization in the West Bank, Jerusalem 0:23:29.280 --> 0:23:32.080 and Israel in order to serve as a barrier to 0:23:32.240 --> 0:23:37.040 further encroachment on the Aluxa Mosque. And that said, Hamas 0:23:37.119 --> 0:23:40.960 may find itself under pressure to act decisively, especially if 0:23:41.000 --> 0:23:45.199 Israel's brutal violence against worshippers continues. The Palestinian people I 0:23:45.240 --> 0:23:48.720 mentioned this in previous episode, but they have reacted angrily 0:23:48.800 --> 0:23:52.080 at the weak response from the PA, the Palatine authority, 0:23:52.480 --> 0:23:57.360 and it's inaction. They're frustrated that the supposed protectors or 0:23:57.800 --> 0:24:01.320 liaisons that they have to negotiate or protect them, they're 0:24:01.359 --> 0:24:06.080 not doing anything. So that anger becomes this pressure on 0:24:06.160 --> 0:24:09.600 someone to act, and it's usually Hamas because they're the 0:24:10.720 --> 0:24:15.119 longest standing and most powerful group in that area. The 0:24:15.119 --> 0:24:18.280 Hamas leadership would not want to be perceived as passive, 0:24:18.520 --> 0:24:21.520 and they may feel compelled to abide by popular demand 0:24:21.680 --> 0:24:25.240 to take a tougher stance and intensify rocket fire towards Israel. 0:24:26.200 --> 0:24:29.000 And this would repeat, as I mentioned earlier, the twenty 0:24:29.040 --> 0:24:31.840 twenty one war on Gaza, which was also triggered by 0:24:31.880 --> 0:24:35.080 Israel's raids on Al al Samosque, and this would only 0:24:35.119 --> 0:24:38.800 further escalate the violence. Well after Ramadan, it's not going 0:24:38.840 --> 0:24:42.840 to just be contained in this month. And let's take 0:24:43.240 --> 0:24:49.040 our last break, really right back, and we're back talking 0:24:49.080 --> 0:24:54.960 about the escalation of violence. And there have been repeated 0:24:55.040 --> 0:24:58.520 warnings that Israel's actions in the Holy sites could trigger 0:24:58.560 --> 0:25:03.359 a quote unquote religious war. In January, Jordinian Ambassador Mahammud 0:25:03.480 --> 0:25:07.400 Daifa Lahmoud told the UN Security Council that Israeli attacks 0:25:07.440 --> 0:25:11.440 on Alfaramashadif are provoking quote the feelings of nearly two 0:25:11.600 --> 0:25:15.639 billion Muslims and this could spark a religious conflict. So 0:25:16.119 --> 0:25:19.000 the people that are saying it's religious may actually have 0:25:19.040 --> 0:25:22.040 a point if this actually comes to a head, because 0:25:22.040 --> 0:25:24.480 it's actually not the whole. The whole Israel Palestine quote 0:25:24.520 --> 0:25:28.200 unquote conflict is not about religion. It's about occupation and colonialism. 0:25:28.680 --> 0:25:31.560 But in this particular instance, when it comes to the mosque, 0:25:32.080 --> 0:25:37.640 the anger is very rooted in faith and a direct 0:25:37.720 --> 0:25:39.280 like slap in the face of their faith. 0:25:40.000 --> 0:25:42.679 So it takes a yeah, you can make it a 0:25:42.720 --> 0:25:46.320 religious conflict. I think that's like other colonial powers have 0:25:46.320 --> 0:25:49.399 been very good at doing by like desecrating holy sites 0:25:49.440 --> 0:25:53.880 of a religion. Yeah, right, Like it's kind of yeah, 0:25:53.920 --> 0:25:58.320 you risk alienating like it's a billion people, or you know, 0:25:58.720 --> 0:26:02.720 uniting a billion people in opposition when you just flagrantly 0:26:02.800 --> 0:26:05.840 do this shit like this. Like I don't think anyone 0:26:06.080 --> 0:26:08.399 who I'm not a religious person either, And like I 0:26:08.440 --> 0:26:12.119 watched that video of the cops or soldiers, I guess 0:26:12.240 --> 0:26:14.959 kind of the same thing and like beaten people with 0:26:15.040 --> 0:26:17.879 chairs and shit, and like that made me furious. That 0:26:17.960 --> 0:26:20.640 made me want to hurt someone, like and that's not 0:26:20.720 --> 0:26:24.000 something that's specially special to me. Maybe it was, I 0:26:24.000 --> 0:26:25.800 can imagine it even more furious. 0:26:26.240 --> 0:26:29.600 It should make anyone mad to see someone treated like that, 0:26:29.880 --> 0:26:32.480 you know what I mean. It shouldn't make anyone furious 0:26:32.520 --> 0:26:35.480 to see that kind of terror taking place. 0:26:36.680 --> 0:26:36.880 Yeah. 0:26:36.920 --> 0:26:40.320 I think a lot of people have trouble putting themselves 0:26:40.320 --> 0:26:43.760 and someone else's shoes maybe, or like they have trouble 0:26:43.800 --> 0:26:46.440 caring about something that doesn't affect them, And I think 0:26:46.520 --> 0:26:50.680 that is a very dangerous path to go on. It's 0:26:50.720 --> 0:26:54.600 just very self centered and main charactery and heartless. 0:26:54.640 --> 0:26:57.959 In my opinion, it's very odd that as humans, Like 0:26:58.000 --> 0:27:01.960 we've normalized the existence and to an extent, people will 0:27:02.040 --> 0:27:06.439 like simp for the existence of like this state, right, 0:27:06.480 --> 0:27:10.440 which is like an abstraction of capital, And like then 0:27:10.480 --> 0:27:12.240 the state exists as an a protraction of capital, and 0:27:12.280 --> 0:27:15.399 it has boundaries and rules, and if you transgressed us, 0:27:15.440 --> 0:27:18.600 even if you don't, if you're just like like antithetical 0:27:18.640 --> 0:27:21.520 to its vision for a piece of land, then then 0:27:22.119 --> 0:27:23.720 people can come and beat the shit into you while 0:27:23.760 --> 0:27:25.679 you're praying. Now, like that's just a thing that's going 0:27:25.760 --> 0:27:28.000 to happen. And like, I don't know if I feel 0:27:28.040 --> 0:27:30.159 like sometimes if we if we sort of re round 0:27:30.240 --> 0:27:32.600 the past two or three hundred years and we're like, hey, 0:27:32.920 --> 0:27:35.080 peasant in the seventeen hundred six, do you want to 0:27:35.080 --> 0:27:37.840 be in a place where like someone could walk into 0:27:37.880 --> 0:27:40.280 this mosque anytime thirty stom grades beat the shit out 0:27:40.320 --> 0:27:42.400 of old ladies, and like no one would go from 0:27:42.440 --> 0:27:44.240 like A to B. Right, But we're at B now 0:27:44.520 --> 0:27:47.760 and people don't seem to want to like investigate how 0:27:47.760 --> 0:27:49.359 we got here and what we can do to change it. 0:27:49.960 --> 0:27:52.440 Yeah, yeah, they regard it as like just a thing 0:27:52.480 --> 0:27:57.120 that happens in order for like humanity or like civilization 0:27:57.240 --> 0:28:01.520 to progress. Yeah, so backwards. It doesn't have to be 0:28:01.600 --> 0:28:01.880 like that. 0:28:02.400 --> 0:28:06.600 No, people can read the door of everything they want to. Yes, 0:28:06.800 --> 0:28:09.119 they want to know about that, but yeah, oh you 0:28:09.119 --> 0:28:10.959 can just you know, not in sim for cops. 0:28:11.800 --> 0:28:12.640 If you don't, I can help. 0:28:12.960 --> 0:28:17.119 That's a good first step, because to fuck cops. But 0:28:17.800 --> 0:28:20.880 there is a growing concern that with its aggressive actions 0:28:20.920 --> 0:28:24.760 in Aluxa, Nanyahu's government is seeking to impose restrictions on 0:28:25.000 --> 0:28:28.439 the access that Palestinians have to the holy site, the 0:28:28.480 --> 0:28:30.520 way that it was done with the Abrahemi Mosque and 0:28:30.560 --> 0:28:33.600 Hebron that I mentioned earlier. This mosque was divided by 0:28:33.640 --> 0:28:36.800 the Israeli authorities into sections that Muslims and Jews can 0:28:36.880 --> 0:28:41.040 visit to supposedly prevent further violence because a masker happened 0:28:41.040 --> 0:28:44.120 there in nineteen ninety four, when a Jewish settler opened 0:28:44.160 --> 0:28:47.640 fire on Muslim worshippers and killed twenty nine people who 0:28:47.640 --> 0:28:52.880 were there to pray. So it's We've talked about how 0:28:52.960 --> 0:28:56.200 history repeats itself a lot, and being afraid of that 0:28:56.320 --> 0:29:00.720 happening is not illogical, it's not irrational because it's happened before, 0:29:00.760 --> 0:29:01.560 it could happen again. 0:29:02.400 --> 0:29:05.800 Yeah, the IDF always backs up these settlers, right like 0:29:06.680 --> 0:29:10.520 they did it yesterday. I think, like a kid was 0:29:10.560 --> 0:29:14.360 killed in a refugee camp in an incident. I think 0:29:14.360 --> 0:29:17.720 we'd started when, if I'm not wrong, there was a march, 0:29:17.760 --> 0:29:19.920 like a bunch of settlers were marching into into an 0:29:19.920 --> 0:29:22.360 area and claiming that you know, it's legalizing it and 0:29:22.400 --> 0:29:27.600 normalize it, do another colonial conquest. And yeah, they're willing 0:29:27.600 --> 0:29:31.120 to shoot a kid like you know, they seem to 0:29:31.120 --> 0:29:33.880 be willing to back these people, especially when they form, 0:29:34.200 --> 0:29:35.960 if I understand correctly, like an important part of the 0:29:35.960 --> 0:29:38.080 coalition that Nenya who's relying on right now. 0:29:38.200 --> 0:29:40.560 Oh, it's a huge part. And also those marches by 0:29:40.600 --> 0:29:46.360 settlers are usually protected by cops, like they're shielded by 0:29:46.360 --> 0:29:49.600 the IDF. It's not like they're there to stop any 0:29:49.680 --> 0:29:52.600 kind of conflict. They're there to protect the settlers. It's 0:29:52.600 --> 0:29:56.080 just backwards history repeating itself. And if these measures are 0:29:56.200 --> 0:29:59.600 imposed on Alexa, it would be a clear violation of 0:29:59.600 --> 0:30:02.960 the status quo, under which non Muslims are allowed to 0:30:03.040 --> 0:30:05.160 visit only at certain hours of the day and they're 0:30:05.200 --> 0:30:08.160 not allowed to pray inside. But this is obviously not 0:30:08.200 --> 0:30:12.120 what's happening and so far there have only been condemnations 0:30:12.240 --> 0:30:15.360 issued by Arab states and the EU and the US. 0:30:15.840 --> 0:30:19.600 What Arab and Western capitals do not understand is that 0:30:19.720 --> 0:30:22.880 unless there is a harsh response to Israeli actions now, 0:30:23.440 --> 0:30:26.840 Natanyahuo's far right allies will only be emboldened to go 0:30:26.920 --> 0:30:30.000 even further in their efforts to take over Muslim and 0:30:30.080 --> 0:30:34.800 Christian holy sites and settle there. Israeli aggression and Elhadamashdif 0:30:35.120 --> 0:30:38.360 is turning Israel into a detonator that will sooner or 0:30:38.440 --> 0:30:41.560 later blow up the whole region. It's really felt like 0:30:41.560 --> 0:30:42.920 that for me for a long time, and for a 0:30:42.960 --> 0:30:46.040 lot of people. It's like this metaphorical ticking time bomb 0:30:46.560 --> 0:30:50.600 and Israel themselves is provoking it to detonate. And I 0:30:50.640 --> 0:30:54.920 think this pressure cooker of a situation is bound to 0:30:55.520 --> 0:30:58.120 have an apex. It's not going to be boiling forever. 0:30:58.960 --> 0:31:02.360 And the violence isn't just contained at Alexa. Israel didn't 0:31:02.360 --> 0:31:05.080 take a break from all their other terrorist activities to 0:31:05.080 --> 0:31:07.640 focus on just one, because their other terrors activities are 0:31:07.680 --> 0:31:11.160 still happening. As you mentioned, on April tenth, a Palestinian 0:31:11.240 --> 0:31:14.560 child was killed by Israeli forces in the akabeta Jabar 0:31:14.760 --> 0:31:20.240 refugee camp in Jericho. Mohammed Fayez Bahan was fifteen years 0:31:20.240 --> 0:31:23.520 old and he was shot in the head, chest and stomach. 0:31:24.320 --> 0:31:27.840 Make it make sense. On April eighth, the Gaza Strip 0:31:27.960 --> 0:31:32.280 endured a night of bombardment as Israeli fighter jets conducted 0:31:32.320 --> 0:31:35.840 air raids on several sites in the territory. The first 0:31:35.880 --> 0:31:39.680 Israeli air strike that hit was near Eldora Children's Hospital 0:31:39.760 --> 0:31:43.440 in the besieged Gaza Strip. Some reporters talked to people 0:31:43.440 --> 0:31:47.280 that experienced this event in this active terror and some 0:31:47.480 --> 0:31:50.720 going to read some of their quotes. Samar al Juan 0:31:51.000 --> 0:31:54.200 talked to Al Jazeera about her terrified experience when she 0:31:54.360 --> 0:31:56.880 rushed to her two year old daughter's bed to pick 0:31:56.920 --> 0:31:59.760 her up. Moments later, the glass from the window next 0:31:59.760 --> 0:32:02.800 to her on the bed shattered and crashed onto the cot. 0:32:03.680 --> 0:32:07.520 She said, my daughter miraculously survived. Last night, we were 0:32:07.520 --> 0:32:10.120 sleeping in the ward. Suddenly we woke up to the 0:32:10.160 --> 0:32:13.920 sound of terrifying air strikes. There were moments of massive fear. 0:32:14.240 --> 0:32:17.160 The glass was falling. I immediately rushed to take my 0:32:17.280 --> 0:32:20.400 child out of her bed. Moments later, the window fell 0:32:20.440 --> 0:32:22.760 on her bed. I was so close to losing her 0:32:23.280 --> 0:32:27.360 Jesus Christ. She continues to say. All the sick children 0:32:27.400 --> 0:32:31.280 were frightened and screaming. A state of tension prevailed among 0:32:31.400 --> 0:32:33.760 all the mothers and the medical staff because of the 0:32:33.800 --> 0:32:36.959 intensity of the bombing, glass from the windows was falling 0:32:37.000 --> 0:32:39.720 and shattering. There were some windows that fell onto the 0:32:39.760 --> 0:32:42.520 beds of sick children just moments after they had been 0:32:42.520 --> 0:32:45.280 picked up, and this could have caused a catastrophe and 0:32:45.360 --> 0:32:48.680 a large number of injuries. The Godz's Ministry of Health 0:32:48.800 --> 0:32:51.520 said this is not the first time that health facilities 0:32:51.520 --> 0:32:54.480 have been targeted and it is unacceptable. These attacks not 0:32:54.560 --> 0:32:57.520 only put patience lives at risk, but they also create 0:32:57.560 --> 0:33:01.680 a sense of fear among healthcare workersats in their families. 0:33:02.560 --> 0:33:05.680 The same mother from earlier went on to say, several 0:33:05.800 --> 0:33:09.320 children have spent the night trembling in fear. Our children 0:33:09.480 --> 0:33:12.160 are poor in Gaza. They do not enjoy Ramadan or 0:33:12.360 --> 0:33:15.280 d or any other occasion. They are always threatened with 0:33:15.400 --> 0:33:18.280 fear and destruction that may come their way at any moment. 0:33:19.480 --> 0:33:24.040 Yeah, that's We did an interview a few months ago 0:33:24.120 --> 0:33:27.000 with some young men from Gaza that we haven't put 0:33:27.000 --> 0:33:29.320 out yet, but we will, But I've spoken to them 0:33:29.360 --> 0:33:30.920 quite a few times, and I remember one of the 0:33:30.960 --> 0:33:33.800 things that they would say to me that really sort 0:33:33.800 --> 0:33:36.400 of like was very affecting for me was that like 0:33:37.160 --> 0:33:40.280 they they got they had very young boys who would 0:33:40.280 --> 0:33:42.680 come and stay and they would do parkour together, and 0:33:43.000 --> 0:33:44.880 that these eight year old boys would routinely wake up 0:33:44.920 --> 0:33:47.760 in the middle of the night screaming like like with 0:33:48.280 --> 0:33:51.400 horrible PTSD, and they think, yeah, the fucking their children, 0:33:51.640 --> 0:33:56.920 Like they shouldn't be anywhere near that stuff. And like 0:33:57.240 --> 0:33:59.880 people will talk about precision air strikes in Gaza and 0:33:59.880 --> 0:34:03.440 like it's not like even even if you manage to 0:34:03.480 --> 0:34:08.359 somehow not kill any people, then you're still going to 0:34:08.719 --> 0:34:12.240 fundamentally alter the course of someone's life in a terrible way. 0:34:13.000 --> 0:34:16.319 There was there was a study done. I'm paraphrasing it, 0:34:16.360 --> 0:34:19.160 but it basically showed that the children in Gaza are 0:34:19.200 --> 0:34:21.960 in a perpetual state of trauma like they had. They 0:34:22.280 --> 0:34:24.759 they never get over the phase where they're out of 0:34:24.760 --> 0:34:30.440 that fireflight mentality. Yeah, there's they're stunted in this the 0:34:30.560 --> 0:34:34.719 fear part of PTSD. And it's so sad because that's there, 0:34:35.040 --> 0:34:37.920 that's their reality. They've never known anything different other than 0:34:38.920 --> 0:34:42.560 fear and violence and the loss of life at any moment. 0:34:43.239 --> 0:34:46.280 Yeah, and they can't leave right, like, it's extremely difficult, 0:34:46.320 --> 0:34:48.040 Like our friends who have tried to leave that it's 0:34:48.080 --> 0:34:52.480 taken them years of trying to leave. They can't go 0:34:52.520 --> 0:34:54.880 anywhere else. They're trapped in the most bombed place on earth, 0:34:55.080 --> 0:34:56.280 and that's the whole reality. 0:34:56.880 --> 0:35:00.640 Gaza has been referred to an open air, constant camp, 0:35:00.920 --> 0:35:03.399 like it's not just a place where people live. 0:35:03.719 --> 0:35:05.640 It's been. 0:35:07.120 --> 0:35:10.120 Just the main target of Israel for a really long time. 0:35:10.640 --> 0:35:13.960 And I always recommend this movie, but Gaza Fights for 0:35:13.960 --> 0:35:16.479 Freedom is a great movie by Abbi Martin. It's free 0:35:16.520 --> 0:35:18.799 on YouTube. I would watch it if you want some 0:35:18.920 --> 0:35:22.680 more examples of what's happening in Gaza, because it's horrific. 0:35:23.120 --> 0:35:25.160 It's a hard watch, but it's important if you want 0:35:25.160 --> 0:35:30.040 more information. In the Altafa district of Gaza City, raids 0:35:30.040 --> 0:35:33.520 were also taking place. Meshdi Abu Nima and his family 0:35:33.600 --> 0:35:36.319 woke up at three am first hold, which is the 0:35:36.360 --> 0:35:39.800 pre sunrise meal right before you fast the whole day, 0:35:39.880 --> 0:35:42.400 so they woke up at three am and then suddenly 0:35:42.480 --> 0:35:45.640 Israeli warplanes were attacking the empty land. Next to their 0:35:45.680 --> 0:35:49.520 house and this caused severe destruction to their home. Abu 0:35:49.600 --> 0:35:51.879 Nima is the father of seven children, and he told 0:35:51.920 --> 0:35:55.239 Al Jazeira it was like an earthquake. We were terrified. 0:35:55.400 --> 0:35:58.480 Immediately I rushed to my three daughter's bedroom to find 0:35:58.480 --> 0:36:01.840 my two year old daughter covered shattered window glass. I 0:36:01.880 --> 0:36:05.440 can't forget her shock, fear and her heartbeat. Everyone in 0:36:05.480 --> 0:36:09.000 the house was screaming until now. I don't understand why 0:36:09.040 --> 0:36:12.480 they bombed our area. How could an empty land be 0:36:12.600 --> 0:36:16.319 bombed without any justification. There are no resistance fighters or 0:36:16.360 --> 0:36:19.440 any military sites here. It is just an empty land 0:36:19.520 --> 0:36:23.760 between residential buildings. And there was a lot of detruction 0:36:23.840 --> 0:36:26.880 that happened. As I said, there's no excuse for it. 0:36:27.960 --> 0:36:31.560 The oldest son in this family his car was obliterated 0:36:31.600 --> 0:36:34.239 and it was his only source of income, and he 0:36:34.400 --> 0:36:39.239 told al Jazeira conditions in the Gaza Strip are unbearably difficult. 0:36:39.400 --> 0:36:42.760 The bombing came and destroyed whatever we have left. Life 0:36:42.800 --> 0:36:44.480 here has truly become hell. 0:36:45.680 --> 0:36:47.120 Jesus Christ, do you. 0:36:47.040 --> 0:36:50.359 Want to spell to any differently people? But I don't 0:36:50.360 --> 0:36:53.760 want to end this episode completely on a terrible note. 0:36:53.880 --> 0:36:56.520 I was really happy today when I woke up and 0:36:56.560 --> 0:36:59.440 my mom sent me this video of Bernie Sanders calling 0:36:59.520 --> 0:37:03.360 Israel or racist government like in those words on television, 0:37:03.400 --> 0:37:08.520 which is very very important, especially as a Jewish ally 0:37:08.800 --> 0:37:12.400 because I've said this before, but Jewish people that defend 0:37:12.480 --> 0:37:14.839 Palestine are some of the most important allies we can have, 0:37:14.920 --> 0:37:17.040 because there's no excuse for anyone to be like, you're 0:37:17.080 --> 0:37:19.600 anti Semitic, because it's not about that, it's not about 0:37:19.640 --> 0:37:24.480 religion or anything. If you're anti Zionist, you're not anti Semitic. 0:37:24.760 --> 0:37:28.520 It's very different. And so having Bernie Sanders be the 0:37:28.520 --> 0:37:32.520 one to call out Israel is very important. So I 0:37:32.520 --> 0:37:34.600 want to play that clip because he'll say it better 0:37:34.640 --> 0:37:38.239 than I can, And yeah, that's the episode. 0:37:38.920 --> 0:37:43.600 Do you think that democracy is in peril in Israel 0:37:43.640 --> 0:37:43.920 right now? 0:37:43.920 --> 0:37:47.160 I do. I am very worried about what Nyahu is 0:37:47.160 --> 0:37:50.680 doing and some of his allies in government and what 0:37:50.760 --> 0:37:52.560 may happen to the Palestinian people. 0:37:52.880 --> 0:37:53.719 And let me tell you something. 0:37:53.800 --> 0:37:55.600 I mean I haven't said this publicly, but I think 0:37:55.640 --> 0:37:59.160 the United States gives billions of dollars in aid to Israel, 0:37:59.360 --> 0:38:01.440 and I think we've to put some strings attached to 0:38:01.480 --> 0:38:04.839 that and say you cannot run a racist government. You 0:38:04.920 --> 0:38:07.400 cannot turn your back on the Two States solutions. You 0:38:07.400 --> 0:38:11.360 cannot demean the Palestinian people there. You just can't do 0:38:11.400 --> 0:38:13.560 it and then come to America and ask for money. 0:38:13.640 --> 0:38:16.440 Has the administration Have you talked to the administration about it? 0:38:16.480 --> 0:38:20.400 They've been very careful in criticism of the Nat Yahoo government. 0:38:20.480 --> 0:38:24.080 Well, I am not careful about it. I'm embarrassed that 0:38:24.680 --> 0:38:27.480 in Israel you have a government of that nature right now. 0:38:28.520 --> 0:38:31.400 And are you going to introduce something we may well yes, 0:38:31.760 --> 0:38:33.799 to try to attack strings to. 0:38:33.800 --> 0:38:36.080 Us they cannot give if you have a you know, 0:38:36.120 --> 0:38:40.279 whether it's Saudi Arabia or other authoritarian societies. If a 0:38:40.320 --> 0:38:42.399 government is acting in a racist way and they want 0:38:42.400 --> 0:38:44.680 billions of dollars from the taxpayers of the United States, 0:38:44.800 --> 0:38:46.440 I think you say, sorry, but it's not acceptable. 0:38:46.520 --> 0:38:48.279 You want our money. Fine, this is what you got 0:38:48.320 --> 0:38:48.799 to do to get it. 0:39:04.280 --> 0:39:08.160 Welcome back to what could happen here. It's still Cherene 0:39:08.280 --> 0:39:11.320 and I'm still joined with the one and only James Stout. 0:39:11.400 --> 0:39:14.160 Thank you for joining me, Thank you for having me. 0:39:14.960 --> 0:39:18.040 Yeah, anytime the listeners they get what they want, you know, 0:39:18.239 --> 0:39:19.839 they demanded it, and here. 0:39:19.800 --> 0:39:22.600 We are delivery log onto the subreddit. 0:39:23.640 --> 0:39:29.280 I was interested in having someone else receive the information 0:39:29.360 --> 0:39:32.120 I had because it's really hard to do it with myself. 0:39:32.160 --> 0:39:35.719 And it's also hard not to like sound like a 0:39:35.760 --> 0:39:38.120 bored professor or something, because I just sound. 0:39:37.920 --> 0:39:40.520 Like this something I have experienced. 0:39:40.560 --> 0:39:42.880 Hear, Yeah, like a pro professor. 0:39:42.920 --> 0:39:45.320 But it's also very emotionally challenging to just be like, 0:39:45.400 --> 0:39:48.800 here some terrible fucking things that have happened again and exactly. 0:39:49.280 --> 0:39:53.840 Yeah, when you buy yourself, it's like it feels a 0:39:53.840 --> 0:39:57.080 lot heavier for some reason. Uh, And so I'm glad 0:39:57.120 --> 0:40:01.160 to have someone else on anyway, Thank you. Today I 0:40:01.239 --> 0:40:04.080 wanted to talk about something that happened seventy five years 0:40:04.120 --> 0:40:06.600 ago this month, So there's going to be some history here, 0:40:06.600 --> 0:40:10.360 but I think it's really important history, so please stay 0:40:10.360 --> 0:40:13.360 tuned if you want to learn some stuff. But seventy 0:40:13.400 --> 0:40:18.080 five years ago this month, before Israel was officially established, 0:40:18.480 --> 0:40:22.640 the Dairya scene massacre happened. This massacre was part of 0:40:22.680 --> 0:40:26.800 the Nekba, or the catastrophe, and it matters even seventy 0:40:26.800 --> 0:40:29.600 five years later, and it should always serve as a 0:40:29.640 --> 0:40:33.080 reminder of the atrocities and massacres that took place in 0:40:33.239 --> 0:40:38.359 order for a country that was already there to be stolen, renamed, terrorized, 0:40:38.680 --> 0:40:41.919 have people killed and forcibly removed from their homes, and 0:40:42.200 --> 0:40:46.080 the indigenous people were expelled from their homes and the 0:40:46.120 --> 0:40:48.839 ownership of their own land was granted someone else. And 0:40:48.880 --> 0:40:52.319 I think reminding everybody of what happened to make that 0:40:52.400 --> 0:40:57.120 happen is extremely important because we're not that far removed 0:40:57.239 --> 0:41:01.239 from that brutalization. We can say, like, oh, that was 0:41:01.440 --> 0:41:04.279 medieval times, people were different. It's like, no, that was 0:41:04.400 --> 0:41:05.839 like less than one hundred years ago. 0:41:05.920 --> 0:41:06.359 Shut up. 0:41:06.960 --> 0:41:10.520 The nakba aka the catastrophe in Arabic. It refers to 0:41:10.640 --> 0:41:14.680 the violent expulsion of approximately three quarters of all Palestinians 0:41:14.680 --> 0:41:18.040 from their homes and homeland by Zionist militias in the 0:41:18.080 --> 0:41:21.880 New Israeli Army during the State of Israel's establishment between 0:41:21.960 --> 0:41:25.040 nineteen forty seven and nineteen forty eight. The Nekabo was 0:41:25.080 --> 0:41:28.920 a deliberate and systematic act intended to establish a Jewish 0:41:29.000 --> 0:41:33.560 majority state in Palestine. Amongst themselves. Zionist leaders use the 0:41:33.560 --> 0:41:37.480 euphemism quote unquote transfer when discussing plans for what today 0:41:37.520 --> 0:41:41.240 would be called ethnic cleansing. The roots of the Nakba 0:41:41.520 --> 0:41:44.799 and the ongoing problems in Palestine and Israel today. They 0:41:44.880 --> 0:41:47.759 lie in the emergence of the political Zionism from the 0:41:47.840 --> 0:41:52.040 late eighteen hundreds, when some European Jews, influenced by the 0:41:52.160 --> 0:41:55.799 nationalism that was sweeping the continent, they decided that the 0:41:55.840 --> 0:41:58.680 solution to anti Semitism in Europe and Russia was the 0:41:58.800 --> 0:42:02.160 establishment of a state for Jews and Palestine. They began 0:42:02.239 --> 0:42:06.960 immigrating to Palestine as colonizers, where they started depossessing indigenous 0:42:07.040 --> 0:42:11.520 Muslim and Christian Palestinians. In November of nineteen forty seven, 0:42:11.719 --> 0:42:15.120 following World War II and the Holocaust, the newly created 0:42:15.239 --> 0:42:19.040 United Nations approved of a plan to divide Palestine into 0:42:19.120 --> 0:42:22.520 Jewish and Arab states against the will of the majority 0:42:22.560 --> 0:42:28.200 indigenous Palestinian Arab population. Again, this was not their decision 0:42:28.400 --> 0:42:32.120 or choice to make. Regardless, the UN approved of a 0:42:32.160 --> 0:42:36.040 plant divide Palestine into Jewish and Arab states against the 0:42:36.040 --> 0:42:39.680 will of Palestinian people. It gave fifty six percent of 0:42:39.680 --> 0:42:43.520 that land to the proposed Jewish state, despite the fact 0:42:43.600 --> 0:42:46.560 that Jews only owned about seven percent of the private 0:42:46.600 --> 0:42:49.240 land of Palestine and made up only thirty three percent 0:42:49.280 --> 0:42:52.279 of the population, and a very large percentage of this 0:42:52.400 --> 0:42:55.840 percentage of thirty three percent were recent immigrants from Europe. 0:42:56.120 --> 0:42:58.880 So handing over more than half of someone else's land 0:42:59.320 --> 0:43:02.040 truly does it make sense. I don't care what religious 0:43:02.080 --> 0:43:05.200 text or citing, it was wrong at this point in 0:43:05.280 --> 0:43:06.880 time to take that land. 0:43:07.040 --> 0:43:07.719 It was just wrong. 0:43:08.239 --> 0:43:11.239 The Palestinian Arab state was to be created on just 0:43:11.400 --> 0:43:15.000 forty two percent of Palestine, even though Muslim and Christian 0:43:15.040 --> 0:43:18.400 Palestinians made up a large majority of the population and 0:43:18.440 --> 0:43:22.080 were indigenous to all of the land. Jerusalem was to 0:43:22.120 --> 0:43:27.280 be governed by a special international administration. Almost immediately after 0:43:27.600 --> 0:43:31.400 the partition plan was passed. The expulsion of Palestinians by 0:43:31.480 --> 0:43:36.120 Zionists militias began months before the arming of neighboring Arab 0:43:36.160 --> 0:43:39.000 states began to be involved. So there was no other 0:43:39.640 --> 0:43:43.239 person to say, don't do this, or like there was 0:43:43.239 --> 0:43:44.840 no one else to fight to hold them back. I 0:43:44.840 --> 0:43:46.920 guess is what I'm trying to say. And by the 0:43:46.960 --> 0:43:50.800 time these Zionist militias and the new Israeli Army finished, 0:43:50.960 --> 0:43:55.839 the new State of Israel covered seventy eight percent of Palestine. 0:43:56.000 --> 0:43:58.480 So they did even follow the rules either. They just 0:43:58.560 --> 0:44:00.839 kept on swallowing up the land that wasn't even there 0:44:00.920 --> 0:44:06.759 to begin with, with this violent Nekba that it's just 0:44:06.840 --> 0:44:10.040 it's it's a terrible, horrific thing they did. There is 0:44:10.080 --> 0:44:14.600 a film on Netflix called Farha. It's the first film 0:44:14.640 --> 0:44:18.799 that depicts any kind of story about the Nekba, and 0:44:18.840 --> 0:44:22.279 it's by a Palestinian filmmaker. It's really powerful. I would 0:44:22.320 --> 0:44:24.920 recommend seeing that if you want an example of what happened, 0:44:24.920 --> 0:44:27.960 because it's all factual as far as like the terror 0:44:28.000 --> 0:44:31.239 that they did, so I'd recommend that film. Give it 0:44:31.280 --> 0:44:32.920 five stars for the haters, you know what I mean? 0:44:34.960 --> 0:44:39.280 Oh, guy, I can imagine. There were reviews just like yeah, death, Yeah. 0:44:39.400 --> 0:44:42.080 That was the film that the Israeli government tried to 0:44:42.080 --> 0:44:44.520 to ban, and they were a lot of Zionists were 0:44:44.520 --> 0:44:47.239 commenting like terrible things about it and giving it one 0:44:47.280 --> 0:44:50.080 star or whatever. They want Netflix to take it off Netflix, 0:44:50.920 --> 0:44:54.520 but no, we fuck the haters. Help us out. Five stars. 0:44:54.560 --> 0:44:56.359 Put it on the background of your TV. It doesn't matter. 0:44:56.480 --> 0:45:01.080 Just keep streaming it, keep streaming it exactly strike a 0:45:01.120 --> 0:45:02.680 blow against colonialism. 0:45:02.960 --> 0:45:07.680 But that's just an example of how important and scared 0:45:07.800 --> 0:45:11.040 they are of the truth. Because it's a movie. It's 0:45:11.080 --> 0:45:11.880 a fucking movie. 0:45:12.239 --> 0:45:14.600 Yeah. The control of the narrative is so important in 0:45:14.640 --> 0:45:18.439 these things, exactly. Yes, And even the way you refer 0:45:18.520 --> 0:45:20.400 to it, right, not not calling it the knock, like 0:45:21.239 --> 0:45:25.920 calling it a transfer, not a cleansing, exactly, calling it, 0:45:26.000 --> 0:45:28.560 like not referring to it in the same terms as 0:45:28.600 --> 0:45:33.200 we would do like the genocidal set of colonialism that 0:45:33.280 --> 0:45:36.640 settled this country, or you know, the way that Britain 0:45:36.719 --> 0:45:39.920 and France and Germany behaved in Africa, like trying to 0:45:40.239 --> 0:45:43.920 not like specifically opposing calling it an apartheid state, right 0:45:43.960 --> 0:45:47.080 when when that's what it is, is what it does. Like, 0:45:47.200 --> 0:45:49.200 all of those things are so important, and they might 0:45:49.200 --> 0:45:54.080 seem like petty battles, but they really control how we 0:45:54.120 --> 0:45:56.359 see things. I think when you control language, you can 0:45:56.400 --> 0:45:58.200 control how people perceive things. 0:46:00.239 --> 0:46:04.160 And I think controlling the narrative is so parallel to 0:46:04.280 --> 0:46:08.360 like controlling the history books, because that's what gets remembered 0:46:08.400 --> 0:46:10.680 by the people that want to the narrative to have 0:46:10.719 --> 0:46:13.000 a certain thing. Not all history books obviously, but a 0:46:13.000 --> 0:46:16.760 lot of the times the things that are considered facts 0:46:17.480 --> 0:46:21.360 are biased. You know, I don't know if that makes sense. 0:46:21.480 --> 0:46:24.239 Yeah, Oh, you're only getting half of the things, right, 0:46:24.320 --> 0:46:28.080 or like, yeah, I mean, as a historian, we are 0:46:28.120 --> 0:46:32.279 all biased, and so we should declare our biases and 0:46:32.320 --> 0:46:34.719 sort of go forward that way, rather than presenting our 0:46:34.760 --> 0:46:38.400 biases as unbiased and neutral and then obviously creating a 0:46:38.400 --> 0:46:41.279 biased thing, which is what we tend to get in 0:46:41.280 --> 0:46:43.040 the US, especially when we look at this stuff. 0:46:43.120 --> 0:46:43.279 Right. 0:46:43.600 --> 0:46:44.720 Yeah, no, totally. 0:46:44.800 --> 0:46:45.160 I love that. 0:46:45.200 --> 0:46:48.319 I Like, I didn't bash historians, but I criticized them. 0:46:48.320 --> 0:46:49.520 But you're like, I'm an historian. 0:46:50.840 --> 0:46:54.160 Yeah, I will not jump to the defense of science 0:46:54.239 --> 0:46:59.040 historians I've worked with. Like, there's a chapter in my 0:46:59.080 --> 0:47:02.640 book about volunteers in the Spanish Civil War, and like 0:47:03.360 --> 0:47:06.560 about thirty percent of volunteers were Jewish people, right, and 0:47:06.719 --> 0:47:10.319 many of them had been like couldn't go back to 0:47:11.120 --> 0:47:13.000 Like there are some of them who like fought in 0:47:13.000 --> 0:47:16.560 the Spanish Civil War, were gorillas in the Second World War, 0:47:17.000 --> 0:47:20.239 survived the Holocaust in some cases, and they were anti Zionists, 0:47:20.320 --> 0:47:24.040 and so like they didn't have a place, like you know, 0:47:24.239 --> 0:47:26.400 there wasn't a place for them as people who had 0:47:27.040 --> 0:47:30.719 had stuck to their very decent principles of like you 0:47:30.719 --> 0:47:33.359 shouldn't impose shit on force for people who don't want it, 0:47:33.400 --> 0:47:37.160 and we're opposed to fascism or opposed to colonialism. There 0:47:37.239 --> 0:47:39.600 wasn't a place for them in that sort of post 0:47:39.640 --> 0:47:42.799 World War two Jewish movement, that Zionist movement. There were 0:47:43.080 --> 0:47:47.239 in other places, but yeah, it's very sad that their 0:47:47.280 --> 0:47:50.560 stories aren't like like if a friend of mine was 0:47:50.560 --> 0:47:53.239 the person who first wrote articles about them, but like 0:47:53.640 --> 0:47:57.759 their memory is completely erased, right, or at least it's 0:47:57.800 --> 0:48:00.640 not present, And then they should be people that, like 0:48:00.880 --> 0:48:02.880 any recentall person would be very proud of, right, they 0:48:02.880 --> 0:48:06.200 were willing to die for someone else's battle, and then yeah, 0:48:06.239 --> 0:48:08.319 they were kind of that they're they stuck to the 0:48:08.320 --> 0:48:10.720 same principles the whole way through it, and the world 0:48:10.840 --> 0:48:12.279 kind of moved around them. 0:48:12.680 --> 0:48:18.440 Yeah, And I mean I think as time goes on, 0:48:19.160 --> 0:48:22.520 those things won't even be existing in people's reality, you 0:48:22.560 --> 0:48:24.360 know what I mean, Like if no one remembers that 0:48:24.400 --> 0:48:26.760 that happened, if no one is part of what that happened, 0:48:26.760 --> 0:48:28.719 like it's just going to go away. It's going to disappear. 0:48:29.360 --> 0:48:31.600 Yeah, that's why it's so important to do history and 0:48:31.640 --> 0:48:34.360 to do like to use different sources, right, and to 0:48:34.520 --> 0:48:38.520 do history from a people's perspective, not from a perspective 0:48:38.560 --> 0:48:39.520 of people who are in power. 0:48:39.920 --> 0:48:43.200 Exact history from below, that's what we call it. 0:48:43.760 --> 0:48:45.880 Say that sounds on more time if people call it 0:48:46.000 --> 0:48:49.520 history from below, but like and to look at other sources, right, 0:48:49.600 --> 0:48:53.759 like without like riding my hobby horse too much. Like 0:48:54.040 --> 0:48:57.600 I was primarily a historian of sport and anti fascism, 0:48:57.800 --> 0:48:59.960 and like specifically sport. 0:49:00.080 --> 0:49:02.760 I got a ton of pushback on when I started. 0:49:02.400 --> 0:49:05.080 Because it's not important, right, and it's not you know, 0:49:05.120 --> 0:49:08.320 it's not like fucking I don't have any charts or whatever, 0:49:09.120 --> 0:49:12.520 and like, it's actually very important to where people were 0:49:12.560 --> 0:49:15.239 able to express who they were and who was on 0:49:15.280 --> 0:49:16.680 the team and who was not on their team, right, 0:49:16.760 --> 0:49:19.279 And that's where you find these people who are very 0:49:19.280 --> 0:49:22.839 impactful lots of other areas. And I think, like if 0:49:22.920 --> 0:49:25.840 I was a younger person and I was trying to 0:49:25.840 --> 0:49:27.520 find my way from my identity and be like, hey, 0:49:27.560 --> 0:49:29.560 the signism seems wrong, like in the same way that 0:49:29.640 --> 0:49:32.160 other things seem wrong, to have those people to be like, yeah, 0:49:32.200 --> 0:49:34.960 these people also saw that, right, Like they didn't want 0:49:34.960 --> 0:49:38.359 a boot on anyone's neck, not just not I didn't 0:49:38.400 --> 0:49:40.480 want it to be their boot on someone else's neck 0:49:40.480 --> 0:49:42.600 and that was fine. You know, they like having seen 0:49:42.640 --> 0:49:44.400 the Holocausts, having seen what happened in to Spain, the like, 0:49:44.440 --> 0:49:46.759 now this shit is wrong. It's still wrong. Doesn't matter 0:49:46.760 --> 0:49:47.480 if we're doing it. 0:49:47.840 --> 0:49:49.520 Yeah, their humanity prevailed. 0:49:50.120 --> 0:49:53.600 Yeah, and it's important for people like to have those 0:49:54.160 --> 0:49:56.160 those stories to be like, Okay, well I'm not fucking 0:49:56.200 --> 0:49:59.120 crazy or it's not that I just don't understand what 0:49:59.200 --> 0:50:01.320 it was like back then because a lot of people 0:50:01.360 --> 0:50:03.440 could see it and we're like, no, we shouldn't be 0:50:03.480 --> 0:50:03.799 doing this. 0:50:05.160 --> 0:50:08.120 Yes, well, historian James, thank. 0:50:08.000 --> 0:50:11.600 You for jordaning me today. Sorry, no, why are you apologizing? 0:50:11.640 --> 0:50:15.680 I love that shit? Fuck No, I love it history 0:50:15.719 --> 0:50:16.360 from below. 0:50:16.239 --> 0:50:18.680 That you said, yeah's quite no theme. 0:50:18.760 --> 0:50:18.920 Now. 0:50:19.440 --> 0:50:22.200 I think it's a good thing to abide by. So 0:50:22.239 --> 0:50:24.080 I'm glad that there's a little catchy phrase for. 0:50:24.080 --> 0:50:27.880 It, Stewart Hale and things like that. Yeah, we'll do 0:50:27.920 --> 0:50:29.440 another episode on this one day. 0:50:29.440 --> 0:50:30.360 Yes please. 0:50:30.920 --> 0:50:33.880 So, as we mentioned before, Israel stole about seventy eight 0:50:33.920 --> 0:50:37.440 percent of Palestine and then this left twenty two percent, 0:50:37.640 --> 0:50:40.399 and the twenty two percent was compromised of the West Bank, 0:50:40.560 --> 0:50:44.279 East Jerusalem and Gaza and these regions fell under the 0:50:44.280 --> 0:50:48.479 control of Jordan Egypt, respectively. In the nineteen sixty seven war, 0:50:48.680 --> 0:50:52.320 the Israeli military occupied the West Bank, East Jerusalem, and Gaza, 0:50:52.880 --> 0:50:57.040 and Israel began colonizing them shortly afterwards. And just to 0:50:57.080 --> 0:51:01.000 give you some numbers, I think they're important sometimes just 0:51:01.040 --> 0:51:03.920 to get the context of the scale of something. But 0:51:04.160 --> 0:51:08.839 the Nekaba, by the numbers, is what I'm about to continue. 0:51:08.880 --> 0:51:12.759 Between seven hundred and fifty thousand and one million Palestinians 0:51:12.760 --> 0:51:15.600 were expelled from their homeland and they were made refugees 0:51:15.680 --> 0:51:19.680 by Zionist militias, amounting to approximately seventy five percent of 0:51:19.680 --> 0:51:23.319 all Palestinians. Between two hundred and fifty thousand and three 0:51:23.400 --> 0:51:26.200 hundred fifty thousand Palestinians were driven out from their homes 0:51:26.239 --> 0:51:29.040 by Zionist militias between the passage of the UN Partition 0:51:29.120 --> 0:51:31.839 Plan on November twenty ninth of nineteen forty seven and 0:51:31.880 --> 0:51:35.120 the establishment of Israel on May fifteenth of nineteen forty eight. 0:51:35.440 --> 0:51:38.280 Prior to the outbreak of war with the neighboring Arab States, 0:51:38.719 --> 0:51:42.200 several dozen massacres of Palestinians were carried out by Zionist 0:51:42.280 --> 0:51:45.720 militias and the Israeli Army, which played a critical role 0:51:45.880 --> 0:51:48.960 in prompting the flight of many Palestinians from their homes. 0:51:49.440 --> 0:51:53.120 More than one hundred Palestinians, including dozens of children, women, 0:51:53.200 --> 0:51:56.400 and elderly people, were massacred in the Palestinian town of 0:51:56.480 --> 0:52:00.279 Dariusne near Jerusalem on April ninth of nineteen forty eight 0:52:00.480 --> 0:52:03.319 by Zionist militia. This is the main massacre I want 0:52:03.320 --> 0:52:06.000 to talk about today because it's been exactly seventy five 0:52:06.080 --> 0:52:09.520 years on April ninth. But it was one of many massacres, 0:52:09.560 --> 0:52:12.680 and it was the one that is cited as igniting 0:52:12.760 --> 0:52:16.439 a lot of the Codomino effect. The massacre at Daria 0:52:16.520 --> 0:52:19.560 Scene was one of the worst atrocities committed during the 0:52:19.640 --> 0:52:22.840 Nakba and a pivotal moment in Israel's establishment as a 0:52:22.880 --> 0:52:26.160 Jewish majority state, and again it triggered the flight of 0:52:26.160 --> 0:52:30.880 Palestinians from their homes in Jerusalem and beyond. The Dariacene 0:52:30.920 --> 0:52:35.799 massacre is commemorated annually by Palestinians around the world. Approximately 0:52:35.840 --> 0:52:39.320 one hundred and fifty thousand Palestinians remained inside what became 0:52:39.480 --> 0:52:42.719 Israel's borders in nineteen forty eight, a quarter of them 0:52:42.760 --> 0:52:46.640 internally displaced. These Palestinians, who are sometimes referred to as 0:52:46.760 --> 0:52:51.280 Israeli Arabs, were granted Israeli citizenship, but stripped of most 0:52:51.320 --> 0:52:55.520 of their land and governed by violent, undemocratic military rule 0:52:55.600 --> 0:52:59.319 as of nineteen sixty six. As of twenty twenty three, 0:52:59.480 --> 0:53:02.960 there are more than two million Palestinians with Israeli citizenship, 0:53:03.080 --> 0:53:06.640 comprising more than twenty percent of Israel's population, and they 0:53:06.640 --> 0:53:09.040 are forced to live as second class citizens in their 0:53:09.080 --> 0:53:12.960 own homeland, subject to dozens of laws that discriminate against 0:53:12.960 --> 0:53:16.440 them in almost every aspect of life because they're not Jewish. 0:53:18.280 --> 0:53:20.480 Let's take our first break here, and I'll come back 0:53:20.520 --> 0:53:25.080 and tell you more terrible things. So herepe, Okay, we're back. 0:53:25.280 --> 0:53:26.759 I'm going to finish up a little bit more of 0:53:26.840 --> 0:53:28.719 these numbers, and then I'm going to talk about Daryasin. 0:53:29.719 --> 0:53:33.120 More than four hundred Palestinian cities and towns were systematically 0:53:33.120 --> 0:53:36.920 destroyed by Zionist militias and the New Israeli Army, or 0:53:37.040 --> 0:53:39.600 they are repopulated with Jews. Between nineteen forty eight and 0:53:39.680 --> 0:53:45.360 nineteen fifty, most Palestinian communities, including homes businesses, houses of worship, 0:53:45.640 --> 0:53:49.000 vi urban centers. They were destroyed to prevent the return 0:53:49.080 --> 0:53:52.359 of their Palestinian owners, who are now refugees outside of 0:53:52.400 --> 0:53:56.840 Israel's borders, or they were internally displaced inside them. Today 0:53:56.960 --> 0:54:01.160 there are more than seven point two million Elstinian refugees, 0:54:01.320 --> 0:54:05.600 including Neckbus survivors and their descendants. They're located mostly in 0:54:05.640 --> 0:54:09.280 the occupied West Bank, East Jerusalem and Gaza and neighboring 0:54:09.280 --> 0:54:12.879 Arab countries such as Lebanon, Jordan, and Syria, and they're 0:54:12.920 --> 0:54:17.000 denied their internationally recognized legal right to return to their homeland. 0:54:18.040 --> 0:54:19.799 This is the last big number I want to say, 0:54:19.880 --> 0:54:21.680 just because I think it's it's so big I had 0:54:21.680 --> 0:54:26.200 to say it. Approximately four million, two hundred and forty 0:54:26.239 --> 0:54:30.440 four thousand, seven hundred and seventy six acres of Palestinian 0:54:30.520 --> 0:54:33.560 land was stolen by Israel during and immediately after the 0:54:33.680 --> 0:54:37.680 establishment of the state in nineteen forty eight. Millions of acres. 0:54:37.920 --> 0:54:41.680 Like it's not just a tiny little place that no 0:54:41.719 --> 0:54:45.000 one was in before, like noe, millions of acres of 0:54:45.080 --> 0:54:47.800 land were forcibly stolen. 0:54:48.320 --> 0:54:52.040 Yeah, so yeah, and all of them like land that 0:54:52.080 --> 0:54:54.839 people have had for generations, that they've farmed Like this 0:54:54.880 --> 0:54:58.400 is like it's not the oldest settlement on earth, but 0:54:58.400 --> 0:55:01.400 people have been living here for tenth thousands of years. 0:55:01.800 --> 0:55:04.439 I said, Aluxey Yesterday was built in ten thirty five. 0:55:04.960 --> 0:55:08.320 Like yeah, this shit is very old and like sometimes 0:55:08.320 --> 0:55:12.000 the same people or people's sort of family. It's not 0:55:12.200 --> 0:55:15.040 just a like loss of property, so lots of everything 0:55:15.080 --> 0:55:18.959 that's sacred and like the Aluxa Mosque or these things 0:55:18.960 --> 0:55:21.200 that are sacred and important to you, you. 0:55:21.160 --> 0:55:24.520 Know, yeah, and so more it's what you said earlier. 0:55:24.520 --> 0:55:28.400 It's like we have to remember these things because otherwise 0:55:28.440 --> 0:55:31.360 they'll get forgotten the in whoever's recording the history, you 0:55:31.360 --> 0:55:31.879 know what I mean. 0:55:31.960 --> 0:55:34.200 Like it's yeah, I mean they have been here. Right 0:55:34.239 --> 0:55:37.280 when we look at how America sees itself, it sees 0:55:37.320 --> 0:55:41.200 the land that it expanded into, it's like terrannualius, like 0:55:41.200 --> 0:55:44.440 like empty land that was unoccupied, which it was not. 0:55:44.560 --> 0:55:47.799 There was not a wilderness to tame. Like there were 0:55:47.840 --> 0:55:50.319 people living here and they were living very happily, and 0:55:50.360 --> 0:55:53.440 they were living they weren't like I don't want to 0:55:53.480 --> 0:55:56.200 do the whole like like in commune with nature thing, 0:55:56.280 --> 0:55:58.960 but like this wasn't a wild and savage place, right, 0:55:59.000 --> 0:56:01.719 there were people existing here and taking from the land 0:56:01.719 --> 0:56:04.600 and living on the land, and like we that just 0:56:04.640 --> 0:56:07.880 doesn't get fucking like Ruth Bader Ginsburg was citing the 0:56:07.920 --> 0:56:10.560 doctrine of discovery, you know, like you all the Libs 0:56:10.560 --> 0:56:14.520 love Ruth Bada Ginswick, but like it's so subsumed into 0:56:14.560 --> 0:56:18.960 what America is that Like like Obama did a fucking 0:56:19.000 --> 0:56:21.080 tweet like this nation was built on peaceful protest. It 0:56:21.160 --> 0:56:25.759 was built on fucking genocide, Like fuck off, yeah, but 0:56:25.840 --> 0:56:29.040 we've allowed that to just go completely forgotten, right, Like 0:56:29.200 --> 0:56:32.520 you don't go to school in California and be like, oh, 0:56:32.719 --> 0:56:35.000 there is a fucking unit they just changed. Actually there 0:56:35.000 --> 0:56:38.400 was a Unipero Hessea High School, and like this is 0:56:38.440 --> 0:56:42.719 a person who did genocide. Like we wouldn't have a 0:56:42.840 --> 0:56:46.120 fucking Gerbels High School in Germany, you know. 0:56:46.200 --> 0:56:47.759 And then Britain does a shit too. 0:56:47.760 --> 0:56:50.440 I'm not not like, yeah, I'm in a glasshouse, so 0:56:50.440 --> 0:56:53.560 I don't say that, but yeah, we we this wasn't 0:56:53.600 --> 0:56:55.680 an empty place. 0:56:55.719 --> 0:56:58.480 And it's really important to remember that because that is 0:56:58.600 --> 0:57:02.040 so often the talking twenty of fucking stupid people that 0:57:02.080 --> 0:57:05.279 try to defend what Israel is doing. Let's go to 0:57:05.480 --> 0:57:08.400 now the main massacre or topic I want to talk 0:57:08.440 --> 0:57:11.799 about today, which happened on April ninth in nineteen forty eight, 0:57:12.360 --> 0:57:14.920 just weeks before the creation of the State of Israel, 0:57:15.239 --> 0:57:18.840 when members of the Urgun and stern Gang Zionist militias 0:57:18.920 --> 0:57:22.200 attacked the village of Dryasin and they killed at least 0:57:22.200 --> 0:57:27.600 one hundred and seven Palestinians. Zionist militias tore through Palestinian villages, 0:57:27.680 --> 0:57:32.040 massacring villagers and expelling those who remained alive to clear 0:57:32.080 --> 0:57:34.320 the way for the creation of the State of Israel. 0:57:34.920 --> 0:57:37.560 And this was one of the many massacres that happened 0:57:37.600 --> 0:57:41.760 during the Nekba, where again an estimated fifteen thousand Palestinians 0:57:41.760 --> 0:57:44.640 were killed and some seven hundred and fifty thousand fled 0:57:44.680 --> 0:57:49.720 their homes as refugees, ignited a very terrifying domino effect. 0:57:50.240 --> 0:57:53.439 This year, the UN will host its first ever high 0:57:53.560 --> 0:57:57.080 level event to commemorate this forced displacement that resulted in 0:57:57.120 --> 0:57:59.680 the establishment of the State of Israel in May nineteen 0:57:59.680 --> 0:58:01.720 forty So this is the first time ever that the 0:58:01.760 --> 0:58:04.440 U one has recognized that the Nekba even happened, or 0:58:04.600 --> 0:58:09.480 like is it happened enough to mention it and commemorate it. 0:58:10.400 --> 0:58:13.240 But Palestinians have never ceased to commemorate the loss of 0:58:13.280 --> 0:58:16.200 each village that was once part of their homeland. Among 0:58:16.240 --> 0:58:18.960 them was Daria Scene, and it was a village perched 0:58:19.040 --> 0:58:22.520 on a hill west of Jerusalem. And this massacre has 0:58:22.560 --> 0:58:25.800 become emblematic of the suffering that Israel would inflict on 0:58:25.840 --> 0:58:29.480 the Palestinians. Many of the people slaughtered, from those who 0:58:29.560 --> 0:58:32.600 were tied to trees and burned to death to those 0:58:32.760 --> 0:58:35.920 lined up against a wall and shot by submachine guns. 0:58:36.440 --> 0:58:39.560 Many of these people were women, children, and the elderly, 0:58:40.120 --> 0:58:43.240 and Fudaw does a really good job of showing this 0:58:43.800 --> 0:58:46.840 lack of discrimination of life in general in that movie 0:58:47.120 --> 0:58:51.439 that I mentioned earlier. As the news of these atrocities spread, 0:58:51.640 --> 0:58:54.760 thousands fled their villages in fear. So again on April 0:58:54.880 --> 0:58:58.320 ninth and nineteen forty eight, the Israeli militia struck Daria Scene, 0:58:58.360 --> 0:59:02.560 where about seven hundred Palestinian lived. According to the Israeli narrative, 0:59:02.800 --> 0:59:09.040 operation Nashon and Ahhson apologies if I mispronounce that, but 0:59:09.120 --> 0:59:12.480 this operation aimed to break through the blockaded road to 0:59:12.560 --> 0:59:16.640 Jerusalem and the fighters encountered stiff resistance from the villagers 0:59:16.800 --> 0:59:20.440 that forced them to advance slowly from house to house. 0:59:21.280 --> 0:59:24.280 It's kind of silly and strange how the same excuse 0:59:24.480 --> 0:59:27.760 is being used, like a century later to justify acts 0:59:27.800 --> 0:59:31.080 of terror. They're saying that villagers resisted them and that's 0:59:31.080 --> 0:59:33.280 why they butchered them. 0:59:33.520 --> 0:59:38.840 It's yeah, it's it's it's pathetic. It's stupid and pathetic. 0:59:38.960 --> 0:59:41.920 And like, yeah, for having the I don't know, temerity 0:59:42.000 --> 0:59:45.640 to be like no, you can't take my home. Yeah, 0:59:45.720 --> 0:59:48.160 they carried out a collective punishment on Yeah. 0:59:48.200 --> 0:59:51.000 And that's the Israeli narrative. That's what their history books say, 0:59:51.200 --> 0:59:53.880 is that this was the aim of this operation. They 0:59:53.880 --> 0:59:56.760 were simply encountering the stiff resistance and they had to 0:59:56.800 --> 0:59:58.920 go from house to house like that's it's just a 0:59:59.040 --> 1:00:03.400 fucked up narrative. But Palestinians and some Israeli historians say 1:00:03.440 --> 1:00:06.760 that the villagers had signed a non aggression agreement with 1:00:06.880 --> 1:00:10.600 the Haganah, which was the pre Israeli state Zionist army. 1:00:11.280 --> 1:00:14.720 They were nevertheless murdered in cold blood and buried in 1:00:14.800 --> 1:00:19.240 mass graves. According to a nineteen forty eight report, filed 1:00:19.320 --> 1:00:22.480 by the British Delegation to the UN. The killing of 1:00:22.560 --> 1:00:26.080 quote some two hundred and fifty Arabs men, women and 1:00:26.160 --> 1:00:30.560 children took place in circumstances of great savagery. Women and 1:00:30.640 --> 1:00:34.840 children were stripped, lined up, photographed, and then slaughtered by 1:00:34.880 --> 1:00:38.400 automatic firing. Those who were taken prisoners were treated with 1:00:38.480 --> 1:00:42.880 degrading brutality. This is from a nineteen forty eight report 1:00:43.200 --> 1:00:44.520 filed by the British delegation. 1:00:44.720 --> 1:00:45.360 Like it's in the. 1:00:45.360 --> 1:00:49.120 Record, weren't they both like the stern going and the 1:00:50.840 --> 1:00:53.360 whatever the militia was called the begin was in It's 1:00:53.400 --> 1:00:56.720 like I said, l I think were like they hadn't 1:00:56.720 --> 1:00:59.320 really done any military operations before, right that they'd just 1:00:59.360 --> 1:01:01.920 been just like bomb like they did car bombs and 1:01:01.960 --> 1:01:06.880 shit favious to this, Like the British had already like 1:01:06.880 --> 1:01:09.840 like that. They were like they were killing British people 1:01:09.840 --> 1:01:13.960 and I guess Arab people in Palestine before this. 1:01:14.800 --> 1:01:20.360 Yes, yeah, I mean the escalation in violence was like 1:01:20.640 --> 1:01:24.160 pretty severe, right, but I think they would have gone 1:01:24.160 --> 1:01:26.320 there eventually, you know, there's kind of hit forward. 1:01:26.520 --> 1:01:28.840 I think they'd already like established an intention or like 1:01:28.880 --> 1:01:31.560 a willingness to kill just about anyone who got in 1:01:31.600 --> 1:01:33.880 their way, right, and they wanted to show that they 1:01:34.000 --> 1:01:38.400 were like unlike the like I guess, like the labor 1:01:38.440 --> 1:01:41.600 aligned Zionist movement, that they were like more hardcore than that, 1:01:41.680 --> 1:01:44.400 and they exactly like. That's why they made a spectacle 1:01:44.440 --> 1:01:45.400 of violence like this. 1:01:47.160 --> 1:01:52.240 They're establishing their their power and dominance right. Israeli historian 1:01:52.480 --> 1:01:57.840 Benny Morris said that the militias quote ransacked unscrupulously, stole 1:01:57.920 --> 1:02:01.040 money and jewels from the survivors, and earned the bodies. 1:02:01.400 --> 1:02:05.600 Even dismemberment and rape occurred. I mean, there's nothing to 1:02:05.640 --> 1:02:09.360 say to that. The number of dead is disputed, but 1:02:09.480 --> 1:02:12.360 it ranges from one hundred to two hundred and fifty. 1:02:12.840 --> 1:02:16.520 A representative of the Red Cross who entered Darya scene 1:02:16.520 --> 1:02:20.080 on April eleventh. Two days later, they reported seeing the 1:02:20.080 --> 1:02:23.760 bodies of some one hundred and fifty people heaped haphazardly 1:02:23.840 --> 1:02:27.120 in a cave, while around fifty were amassed in a 1:02:27.160 --> 1:02:31.600 separate location. Prominent Jewish intellectual Martin Buber wrote at the 1:02:31.640 --> 1:02:35.600 time that such events had been quote unquote infamous. In 1:02:35.720 --> 1:02:39.880 Darya scene, hundreds of innocent men, women and children were massacred. 1:02:39.920 --> 1:02:43.560 He said, let the village remain uninhabited for the time being. 1:02:43.800 --> 1:02:46.880 Let its desolation be a terrible and tragic symbol of 1:02:46.960 --> 1:02:50.120 war and a warning to our people that no practical 1:02:50.160 --> 1:02:54.520 military needs may ever justify such acts of murder. He 1:02:54.600 --> 1:02:58.560 also noted that Darya scene had a profound demographic and 1:02:58.600 --> 1:03:02.120 political effect. He's referring to the fact that the news 1:03:02.160 --> 1:03:05.439 of his masacre spread and it prompted hundreds of Palestinians 1:03:05.520 --> 1:03:11.560 to flee their homes. Four nearby villages were next Pilunia, Cyrus, 1:03:11.680 --> 1:03:16.760 bit Saruk and Bidu. Daria scene was no mistake, according 1:03:16.800 --> 1:03:21.400 to Israeli historian Elain Pape. Iline Pape has been called 1:03:21.480 --> 1:03:27.080 a Israeli quote unquote revisionist historian because he tells the truth, 1:03:27.240 --> 1:03:29.520 the actual truth of what happened in their history. 1:03:29.760 --> 1:03:33.040 Yeah, the concept of Vision's history is nonsense. Like it 1:03:33.120 --> 1:03:35.720 suggests that like there is a settled history at some point, 1:03:36.040 --> 1:03:38.640 which that's not right. Like we're always looking at sources again, 1:03:38.680 --> 1:03:41.880 but was looking for new sources, different perspectives. It's not 1:03:41.920 --> 1:03:44.160 like there is like this monolith of history and then 1:03:44.280 --> 1:03:48.640 some meddling bussard comes and chops it down. It's fundamentally 1:03:48.720 --> 1:03:52.800 like misunderstanding how history is done. Yes, why shouldn't pay 1:03:52.840 --> 1:03:57.360 attention to Malcolm Gladwell for that and many other reasons, 1:03:57.360 --> 1:04:00.640 But yeah, it's a ridiculous idea. He's not Like it's 1:04:00.680 --> 1:04:02.560 not like everyone was like, oh yeah, this wasn't a 1:04:02.560 --> 1:04:05.800 bad thing, and then he came along and like injected 1:04:05.840 --> 1:04:09.600 some kind of political animists in his history. He came 1:04:09.640 --> 1:04:11.680 along and looked at maybe news sources, maybe the same 1:04:11.680 --> 1:04:13.400 sources of people. How I don't know, And it was like, now, 1:04:13.480 --> 1:04:16.840 you guys, have you got this wrong? You called this wrong? 1:04:17.200 --> 1:04:19.960 But that's what historians do. Like you can't fucking write 1:04:19.960 --> 1:04:22.800 your PhD without disagreeing with someone and doing some new history. 1:04:22.840 --> 1:04:25.040 Like that's what takes you from a master's to a doctorate. 1:04:25.080 --> 1:04:27.240 And like you're supposed to do three articles in a 1:04:27.280 --> 1:04:30.760 book to get tenure. Like your articles can't just be like, yeah, 1:04:30.760 --> 1:04:32.560 we pretty much called this one right the first time, 1:04:32.960 --> 1:04:35.960 you know, Like the process of doing history is to 1:04:36.040 --> 1:04:39.960 revise and hope to better understand things from different perspectives. Totally. 1:04:40.320 --> 1:04:42.680 I like that that's the point of history is to revise, 1:04:42.760 --> 1:04:45.600 Because you're right, and I just think it's it's so 1:04:45.760 --> 1:04:47.200 discrediting of his work. 1:04:47.280 --> 1:04:48.120 To call him a. 1:04:48.040 --> 1:04:52.479 Revisionist historian, Yeah, it's condescending, you know, and as someone 1:04:52.520 --> 1:04:54.080 that interviewed him called him this. 1:04:55.440 --> 1:04:57.640 Yeah, I mean hopefully he gave them both barrels because 1:04:57.640 --> 1:05:00.520 it's it's kind of a ridiculous. Yeah, it shows that 1:05:00.560 --> 1:05:03.600 they fundamentally unqualified to be discussing the topic. 1:05:03.640 --> 1:05:04.240 I guess. 1:05:04.440 --> 1:05:07.960 Yeah, I want to talk about what he said, but 1:05:08.280 --> 1:05:10.560 I realized that I didn't take the last break, and 1:05:10.600 --> 1:05:12.800 I want to right now, and that. 1:05:12.880 --> 1:05:15.720 Is my choice. So Okay, Satan, proud of you. 1:05:16.360 --> 1:05:20.960 Thank you, and we're back. We're talking about Ellen Pepe 1:05:21.280 --> 1:05:24.240 a revisionist quoe unquote historian, but not really. You know, 1:05:24.760 --> 1:05:27.520 he was called that because he was talking about Israel 1:05:27.600 --> 1:05:30.800 the way it should be talked about, with actual historical facts. 1:05:31.600 --> 1:05:36.320 In one of his writings, Pape wrote depopulating Palestine was 1:05:36.400 --> 1:05:40.280 not a consequential war event, but a carefully planned strategy 1:05:40.640 --> 1:05:44.440 otherwise known as Plan Dalette, which was authorized by the 1:05:44.480 --> 1:05:48.000 Israeli leader Ben Gurion in March of nineteen forty eight. 1:05:48.600 --> 1:05:52.480 Operation Nashan was in fact the first step in the plan, 1:05:53.240 --> 1:05:56.720 and as I said, the massacre unleashed a cycle of 1:05:56.800 --> 1:05:59.880 violence and counter violence that has been the pattern of 1:06:00.280 --> 1:06:04.960 since this happened, Jewish forces have regarded any Palestinian village 1:06:05.000 --> 1:06:07.720 as an enemy state or a military base, and this 1:06:07.800 --> 1:06:12.000 has paved the way for this blurred distinction between massacring 1:06:12.040 --> 1:06:16.480 civilians and killing combatants. According to the historian, so what 1:06:16.600 --> 1:06:20.400 does all of this say about Israel's vision today? This 1:06:20.480 --> 1:06:22.440 is why I want to talk about this is because 1:06:22.720 --> 1:06:25.800 this started this whole cycle of violence that we still 1:06:25.800 --> 1:06:30.960 see perpetuated today. And it's why Palestinians refuse to forget 1:06:31.080 --> 1:06:33.320 it and forget what happened, and they'll always talk about 1:06:33.320 --> 1:06:36.840 Palestine because they don't want to be erased from history books. 1:06:37.560 --> 1:06:42.040 Dariasne has become a powerful symbol of Palestinian dispossession as 1:06:42.080 --> 1:06:46.080 well as a historical fact Israel must confront when retelling 1:06:46.160 --> 1:06:50.400 its national narrative. According to Pepe, given that terrorism is 1:06:50.440 --> 1:06:53.680 a mode of behavior that Israeli's attribute solely to the 1:06:53.720 --> 1:06:56.920 Palestinian resistance movement, it could not be a part of 1:06:56.960 --> 1:07:00.400 any analysis or description of chapters in Israel's pace, asked. 1:07:00.960 --> 1:07:03.360 One way out of this conundrum, he says, was to 1:07:03.480 --> 1:07:07.760 accredit a particular political group, preferably an extremist one with 1:07:07.840 --> 1:07:12.560 the same attributes of the enemy, thus exonerating mainstream national behavior. 1:07:13.360 --> 1:07:16.680 Israeli historians as well as Israeli society. They've only been 1:07:16.720 --> 1:07:19.000 able to admit to the massacre and Daria scene by 1:07:19.000 --> 1:07:22.640 attributing it to the right wing group Irgun, but have 1:07:22.760 --> 1:07:25.960 covered up or denied the other massacres, notably the one 1:07:26.040 --> 1:07:29.320 in Tantura in nineteen forty eight. This was carried out 1:07:29.360 --> 1:07:32.320 by the Huganah, the main Jewish militia from which the 1:07:32.360 --> 1:07:36.400 current day Israeli military has evolved from. And despite this 1:07:36.640 --> 1:07:40.520 shift of blame, leading human rights organizations like Human Rights 1:07:40.560 --> 1:07:44.280 Watch and Amnesty International have labeled Israel itself in a 1:07:44.320 --> 1:07:45.080 part heid state. 1:07:45.720 --> 1:07:47.800 I've just seen the worst ever op ed in the 1:07:47.960 --> 1:07:51.920 Jerusalem Post about now what tell me it's about this, 1:07:52.840 --> 1:07:56.280 but it's about like the Knakba, Like it contains like 1:07:56.640 --> 1:07:58.560 this kind of narrative that like, oh, well, the Knackbo 1:07:58.720 --> 1:08:02.680 was who was coined by by like historians to like 1:08:02.760 --> 1:08:06.240 explain the failure of the Palestinians to defend themselves, which 1:08:06.280 --> 1:08:11.920 is like a what does that fucking matter? And be 1:08:12.120 --> 1:08:15.800 like what are you saying? Like well, like that contains 1:08:15.800 --> 1:08:17.360 within it the nonation that they would have to defend 1:08:17.360 --> 1:08:22.400 themselves from someone who was that how and then like 1:08:22.400 --> 1:08:24.960 like going back and forth on the number of people killed, 1:08:25.040 --> 1:08:27.240 like which you know, the low estimates are as low 1:08:27.320 --> 1:08:29.280 as like one hundred and seven highest winths in the 1:08:29.320 --> 1:08:32.639 two hundred and fifties based on claims that the militias 1:08:32.680 --> 1:08:37.120 themselves made. Right, So like again, what it is it 1:08:37.200 --> 1:08:39.920 cool to kill like one hundred people but two hundred 1:08:39.920 --> 1:08:42.360 and fifty people's like, you know, we should step in there, 1:08:43.479 --> 1:08:48.800 And just like I was just checking the author's affiliation 1:08:48.840 --> 1:08:53.000 because that's always fun, and he's a research for the 1:08:53.040 --> 1:08:56.839 Menachen Beigine Heritage Center. I may have pronounced that incorrectly, 1:08:56.880 --> 1:09:01.280 But when the organization you work for is is a 1:09:01.360 --> 1:09:04.480 memorializing heritage of one of the dudes who led the massacre, 1:09:05.479 --> 1:09:09.280 you might want to like to step aside from I 1:09:09.280 --> 1:09:12.719 mean or not right or just shut up, just dive 1:09:12.800 --> 1:09:15.639 the fuck in. But like you are flying your flag 1:09:15.880 --> 1:09:17.800 as a fairly part. It's like I said, right, all 1:09:17.880 --> 1:09:21.840 historians are bias. But yes, when like you know, if 1:09:22.160 --> 1:09:24.880 if I work at the Colonel Custer Heritage Center, like 1:09:25.200 --> 1:09:28.639 please take my account of the United States, like violent 1:09:28.640 --> 1:09:30.679 assault on the Lakota people with a pinch of salt, 1:09:30.720 --> 1:09:33.680 because like, I'm coming at this from a certain perspective, 1:09:35.240 --> 1:09:37.839 and yeah, here we are at twenty twenty three, still 1:09:38.200 --> 1:09:42.360 still doing the doing the thing where we were, rather 1:09:42.439 --> 1:09:44.760 than just like taking the l and just being like oo, 1:09:45.080 --> 1:09:49.320 like it's bad actually to rape and mutilate and murder 1:09:49.400 --> 1:09:51.920 people trying to trying to equivocate. 1:09:52.240 --> 1:09:55.160 It's funny you mentioned articles though, because I just saw 1:09:55.200 --> 1:09:59.160 one when I was researching for Aloxa yesterday of this 1:09:59.280 --> 1:10:02.200 Israeli car that admitted that the videos he saw was 1:10:02.600 --> 1:10:03.000 a bad. 1:10:03.080 --> 1:10:04.360 Look like that's what he said. 1:10:04.960 --> 1:10:08.880 It was just like good Cup, Yeah, And the course 1:10:08.920 --> 1:10:10.960 of solution site is to not allow people to take 1:10:11.080 --> 1:10:12.240 videos of you brutal. 1:10:12.720 --> 1:10:15.439 Yeah, yeah that's the yeah. Yeah. 1:10:15.479 --> 1:10:19.720 Tim Apple known anti cup, Yeah, anarchist. 1:10:22.080 --> 1:10:22.200 So. 1:10:22.720 --> 1:10:26.200 Human Rights Watch and Amiasty International have labeled Israel as 1:10:26.200 --> 1:10:29.920 an apartheid state, and Human Rights Watch said in twenty 1:10:29.960 --> 1:10:33.960 twenty one, we reached this determination based on our documentation 1:10:34.120 --> 1:10:37.960 of an overarching government policy to maintain the domination by 1:10:38.040 --> 1:10:42.799 Jewish Israeli's over Palestinians. As recognition grows that these crimes 1:10:42.800 --> 1:10:46.760 are being committed, the failure to recognize that reality requires 1:10:46.920 --> 1:10:49.599 burying your head deeper and deeper into the sand. 1:10:50.080 --> 1:10:50.479 Today. 1:10:50.600 --> 1:10:54.759 Apartheid is not a hypothetical or future scenario, and I 1:10:54.800 --> 1:10:56.960 apartheid is a very light word to use, but I 1:10:57.000 --> 1:11:00.920 did want to just mention that they an organization, so 1:11:01.080 --> 1:11:05.040 that not just like I don't know, there's it's officially 1:11:05.080 --> 1:11:07.280 on paper that Israel sucks, Like why are we still 1:11:07.320 --> 1:11:09.799 defending it? I'm just like, go rewatch the Bernie Sanders 1:11:09.880 --> 1:11:14.080 video from yesterday, like or audio, because there's no reason 1:11:14.120 --> 1:11:17.679 we should be funneling any kind of support into that country. 1:11:18.800 --> 1:11:23.240 Yeah, yeah, I mean it. It's mad. We still made 1:11:23.240 --> 1:11:25.400 a lot of money selling weapons to Israel, but it 1:11:25.560 --> 1:11:28.280 used against like and a Robert and I pursued a 1:11:28.280 --> 1:11:33.200 public records request for going on two years for like 1:11:34.320 --> 1:11:38.160 these batteries that launch hundreds and hundreds of smoke grenades 1:11:38.160 --> 1:11:44.559 and flash bangs that a US company is selling to Israel, Right, yeah, 1:11:44.680 --> 1:11:46.799 like it's great they can fire them into a masque. 1:11:46.880 --> 1:11:48.080 I mean not surprising. 1:11:48.840 --> 1:11:52.400 No, it's just annoying. Annoying the wrong word. But like, yeah, 1:11:52.560 --> 1:11:54.160 there are people who make a lot of money every 1:11:54.160 --> 1:11:58.360 time things get more violent there, right, And people who 1:11:58.360 --> 1:11:59.400 are very invested in that. 1:12:00.120 --> 1:12:03.679 Yeah, and yeah, that's gooulish as fuck. 1:12:04.280 --> 1:12:08.720 It is, And that's actually all I have. That's a 1:12:08.760 --> 1:12:12.759 good good place to end if any But I hope 1:12:13.080 --> 1:12:16.160 you learned something if you didn't know something in this episode, 1:12:16.439 --> 1:12:19.120 and I hope you go watch Futterha or God's Fights 1:12:19.160 --> 1:12:21.719 for Freedom. I don't think this is history that should 1:12:21.720 --> 1:12:25.960 ever be understated or forgotten, so I'm always more than 1:12:26.000 --> 1:12:28.600 happy to talk about it, even if it's depressing. So 1:12:28.680 --> 1:12:31.000 thank you for joining me today, James. 1:12:31.120 --> 1:12:32.839 It's okay, it's been very uplifting. 1:12:32.880 --> 1:12:35.559 I don't be all right. It's important. It's it's very important. 1:12:36.360 --> 1:12:38.479 Hopefully one day we'll have the PK Gaza episode. 1:12:38.840 --> 1:12:39.760 Yes, that'll be great. 1:12:40.320 --> 1:12:40.759 Yeah. 1:12:41.120 --> 1:12:43.400 I guess if you're in the UK and have old 1:12:43.600 --> 1:12:47.360 copies of Men's Health, you can read about young people 1:12:47.360 --> 1:12:51.040 doing parkering Gaza. It's pretty heavy. I will have another 1:12:51.080 --> 1:12:52.320 story about that soon. 1:12:52.680 --> 1:12:52.880 Yeah. 1:12:52.880 --> 1:12:55.080 Where should people? I think a good thing. Maybe if 1:12:55.120 --> 1:12:58.840 we could end on like where, where is a good 1:12:58.840 --> 1:13:01.920 place to find new about Palestine? 1:13:02.479 --> 1:13:05.960 I really like El Jazeera, especially their opinion pieces are 1:13:06.000 --> 1:13:08.200 pretty good because a lot of the times they're written 1:13:08.200 --> 1:13:11.120 by people that are really passionate about what they're writing. 1:13:12.560 --> 1:13:16.759 I think following actual Palestinians on social media is always 1:13:16.920 --> 1:13:21.640 a good call. Like hummedal Kurd is one of the 1:13:21.680 --> 1:13:25.560 most prominent voices recently that has been uplifted, and I 1:13:25.600 --> 1:13:27.920 would follow his social media as his sister has one 1:13:27.960 --> 1:13:31.559 as well. His family's house was basically we had the 1:13:31.600 --> 1:13:35.960 threat of being demolished last year. His house was in 1:13:36.040 --> 1:13:38.760 Schech if you remembered any of that stuff from last 1:13:38.840 --> 1:13:42.280 year with the violence going on there. I also really 1:13:42.320 --> 1:13:46.800 like Sobhitaha. He's on Instagram mostly and he has a 1:13:46.840 --> 1:13:50.000 podcast now. I would highly recommend following his stuff. He 1:13:50.120 --> 1:13:55.280 is so informed and so uh just easy to understand too, 1:13:56.080 --> 1:14:00.479 So I would watch that And yeah, hummedal Kurt actually 1:14:00.600 --> 1:14:04.880 was on some news program like like Face the Nation 1:14:05.040 --> 1:14:07.400 or no, maybe not that, but he was on recently 1:14:08.320 --> 1:14:12.519 like basically handing the asses of the people that were 1:14:12.520 --> 1:14:16.240 talking to him about Israel and Palestine. Is that the 1:14:16.280 --> 1:14:16.960 right way to say that. 1:14:17.000 --> 1:14:17.360 I don't know. 1:14:17.439 --> 1:14:20.519 He was just saying he was he was not willing 1:14:20.600 --> 1:14:23.160 to be talked over and whatever. 1:14:23.240 --> 1:14:26.679 Yeah, which I like, Yeah, he shouldn't be. My friend 1:14:26.720 --> 1:14:30.280 Hossam is a photographer in Palestine. Most of those Alda 1:14:30.360 --> 1:14:34.400 Zerra pieces you'll see are his photographs. Actually, well Sam 1:14:34.680 --> 1:14:40.200 Salem g He's photograph we've worked together before. But yeah, 1:14:40.200 --> 1:14:42.200 if you if you're a person who'd like to see pictures, 1:14:43.160 --> 1:14:44.120 his pictures are very good. 1:14:44.680 --> 1:14:47.640 Yeah, that's a good point too. Also, there are a 1:14:47.680 --> 1:14:50.800 lot of accounts that are solely about Palestine, and a 1:14:50.800 --> 1:14:53.679 lot of these Palestine activists follow them and share them, 1:14:53.720 --> 1:14:57.760 so you will find more organizations by following them. There 1:14:57.840 --> 1:15:02.560 is I for Palestine, there's I think it's like land Palestine. 1:15:02.840 --> 1:15:06.880 Like I think there's a lot of really trusted accounts 1:15:06.920 --> 1:15:09.320 on the Internet. You have to find the ones that 1:15:09.400 --> 1:15:13.840 are trusted, and a lot of times it's stuff from 1:15:13.920 --> 1:15:15.679 the ground and that's the stuff that needs to be 1:15:16.760 --> 1:15:20.920 seen and shared. Because if there's going to be any 1:15:21.040 --> 1:15:24.800 upside to fucking internet and social media, it has to 1:15:24.840 --> 1:15:28.920 be to spread stuff like this around and make sure 1:15:28.920 --> 1:15:29.840 people know about it. 1:15:29.880 --> 1:15:30.280 I don't know. 1:15:31.200 --> 1:15:34.160 Yeah, I think it gives us a way to like 1:15:34.960 --> 1:15:38.400 get underneath that like hegemonic narrative and see what happens 1:15:38.400 --> 1:15:39.439 to real people every day. 1:15:40.040 --> 1:15:40.760 Yeah. 1:15:41.000 --> 1:16:14.360 So yeah, that's that's all, okay, whatever, that's the episode by. 1:16:02.000 --> 1:16:04.840 Hey and welcome to another episode of It Could Happen 1:16:04.920 --> 1:16:09.680 here with me Andrew of the YouTube channel Andrews and 1:16:09.720 --> 1:16:12.600 I'm joined today by It's me. 1:16:12.680 --> 1:16:17.360 It's just James today, Just James. That's like a cringe 1:16:17.400 --> 1:16:18.560 from the nineties. 1:16:19.920 --> 1:16:24.600 Really, I was not aware, just sort of curiosity. James, 1:16:24.960 --> 1:16:27.800 do you play any Paradox Games? 1:16:28.400 --> 1:16:29.920 I don't. I don't know what that is. 1:16:30.240 --> 1:16:33.160 I don't think a type of computer game. 1:16:34.080 --> 1:16:38.240 Yeah, yeah, that was well, it's like a game development company, 1:16:38.240 --> 1:16:40.400 and also they also distribute games as well. 1:16:40.680 --> 1:16:44.960 Okay, you've hit an area about which I have very 1:16:45.000 --> 1:16:45.720 little knowledge in. 1:16:46.760 --> 1:16:51.160 Yeah, and by the way, this isn't sponsored, it's just uh, 1:16:51.320 --> 1:16:55.040 it's how I ended up stumbling upon this topic. Right, Okay, 1:16:55.320 --> 1:16:57.080 so just you know, hearing me for a second year. 1:16:57.200 --> 1:17:00.800 So where the Paradox Games is Crusader Kings three? 1:17:01.600 --> 1:17:02.160 Right? 1:17:02.280 --> 1:17:06.200 Right, Yeah, it's okay. 1:17:06.360 --> 1:17:08.679 You know, I'm already infitted to see where this goes. 1:17:09.720 --> 1:17:14.599 So, yes, it's a medieval grand strategy game. It's sort 1:17:14.640 --> 1:17:21.160 of like it's it's a combination of like those classic 1:17:21.479 --> 1:17:24.400 sort of well grand strategy games I know, also a 1:17:24.400 --> 1:17:29.160 bit of sims flail. You're playing as a character and 1:17:29.200 --> 1:17:32.720 you're also playing as that character's dynasty, so you'll be fit. 1:17:32.840 --> 1:17:35.360 You play as the grandfather, and then the father, and 1:17:35.360 --> 1:17:38.080 then the son, and then the grandson, and so on 1:17:38.160 --> 1:17:44.599 and so forth, and so I actually, if you can't tell, 1:17:44.640 --> 1:17:47.559 I play the game sometimes a little bit too much, 1:17:48.320 --> 1:17:50.840 but I appreciate the role playing. The setting a set 1:17:50.880 --> 1:17:54.439 between either eight sixty seven or ten sixty six and 1:17:54.520 --> 1:17:57.400 fourteen fifty three, which is considered the end of the 1:17:57.400 --> 1:18:05.080 medieval era due to fall of Constantinople to the Ottomans. Yeah, 1:18:05.200 --> 1:18:07.040 so you know, at a certain point and playing the game, 1:18:07.080 --> 1:18:09.479 after I've played in pretty much every corner of the map, 1:18:09.640 --> 1:18:13.360 I was looking for a new religious movement to spread 1:18:13.360 --> 1:18:16.400 across the map for fun. Of course, this is something 1:18:16.400 --> 1:18:19.639 I do with my free time. And I started reading 1:18:19.640 --> 1:18:22.519 about all these different strands of Islam that they have 1:18:22.600 --> 1:18:26.120 in the game, like the Commasians and the Ebadis and 1:18:26.240 --> 1:18:29.599 the Sufreez. Yeah, and that led me to stumble across 1:18:29.680 --> 1:18:35.200 the move Tasialism and the Naja Dad. And please bailed 1:18:35.200 --> 1:18:38.840 me with the pronunciations of everything about to pronouncing this episode, 1:18:39.800 --> 1:18:45.840 but move Tassilism and the Naja Dad. I started digging 1:18:45.840 --> 1:18:47.200 into this stuff and that led me to make the 1:18:47.240 --> 1:18:52.479 decision to talk about what I've been learning before I begin. 1:18:52.800 --> 1:18:58.160 I know, even the idea of religious anarchisms is somewhat controversial, 1:18:58.960 --> 1:19:01.880 particularly they describe and see between the anarchist slogan of 1:19:02.120 --> 1:19:05.120 no gods, no masters, and of course the history of 1:19:05.400 --> 1:19:12.160 various faith based class struggles. MY stance on it is complicated, 1:19:12.640 --> 1:19:15.200 But whatever my stances, I don't think we could deny 1:19:15.320 --> 1:19:18.759 the reality that religious anarchisms have existed in the past 1:19:19.320 --> 1:19:20.400 and still exists today. 1:19:21.040 --> 1:19:23.920 Now I'm really interested in this, I'm I'm just I'm 1:19:23.920 --> 1:19:28.680 working on a book at the minute about anarchists at 1:19:28.720 --> 1:19:34.800 war or I guess how anarchism meets war, and people 1:19:34.880 --> 1:19:39.760 variously sort of defining out anarchism narrowly and widely. I 1:19:39.400 --> 1:19:41.640 grew up in the early two thousands, I guess, with 1:19:41.760 --> 1:19:44.240 like the kind of new anarchists, as Greber called it, 1:19:45.280 --> 1:19:50.960 and they were always amongst that broader movement opposed to 1:19:50.960 --> 1:19:54.639 like neoliberal globalization. There were always religious people, and I'm 1:19:54.640 --> 1:19:58.559 not a religious person, And I went to a school 1:19:58.600 --> 1:20:01.599 where there was a priest, and the priest had been 1:20:02.240 --> 1:20:04.839 a member of the anti apartheid movement in South Africa 1:20:04.960 --> 1:20:09.280 and was wanted there and had left for doing violence 1:20:09.280 --> 1:20:13.120 to get which, like it's pretty based and so like 1:20:13.160 --> 1:20:14.360 I have a lot of time for a lot of 1:20:14.439 --> 1:20:18.280 religious people, it's always been kind of an area of 1:20:18.560 --> 1:20:22.880 I guess interest to me this like religious anarchisms. 1:20:23.520 --> 1:20:30.200 Yeah, it certainly it has a very eventful history. Yeah, 1:20:31.560 --> 1:20:33.280 so I wanted to talk a bit about the rather 1:20:33.320 --> 1:20:37.760 interesting history of just one tradition. Although the whole thing 1:20:37.800 --> 1:20:40.000 about the anarchism and I'm going to be discussing is 1:20:40.040 --> 1:20:44.439 that I wouldn't really call it anarchism, not at least 1:20:44.439 --> 1:20:49.240 not by our standards. Yeah, it's more of a distinct 1:20:49.439 --> 1:20:55.040 and notable resistance to centralized authority or a minimization and 1:20:55.080 --> 1:20:59.120 decentralization of that authority. I think it's morek into like 1:20:59.560 --> 1:21:03.240 a mini archism than an actual anarchism. Sure, right, but 1:21:03.960 --> 1:21:08.320 it's still interesting to see I guess, the seeds of 1:21:08.320 --> 1:21:10.799 anti authoritarianism through history. 1:21:10.880 --> 1:21:12.200 Right. 1:21:12.360 --> 1:21:14.639 So these particular movements, they have a sort of an 1:21:14.680 --> 1:21:19.280 anti Khalif, Khalif being the religious leader in Islam, they 1:21:19.280 --> 1:21:22.799 have a kind of an anti Khalif action that expanded 1:21:22.880 --> 1:21:29.080 into a broader philosophical and political conclusions. So we can 1:21:29.080 --> 1:21:31.800 start in the city of Basra in Iraq in the 1:21:31.960 --> 1:21:35.400 eight hundreds, where a discussion was taking place recording how 1:21:35.400 --> 1:21:39.960 the Uma or Islamic community should respond to a leader 1:21:40.080 --> 1:21:45.400 of the Abbasid Caliphate would become corrupt and tyrannical. Now, 1:21:45.479 --> 1:21:47.680 the two me and stream opinions were that of the 1:21:47.760 --> 1:21:51.120 activists who believed in stage in a violent revolution to 1:21:51.160 --> 1:21:54.960 install a new legitimate leader, and the quietists who believed 1:21:55.000 --> 1:22:03.080 impatiently perseverant under tyranny or passively resistant. It's funny how 1:22:03.080 --> 1:22:11.200 we see these kind of ideas about change rearing their 1:22:11.200 --> 1:22:14.519 heads again and again and again throughout history, despite various 1:22:14.520 --> 1:22:17.639 different contexts. The other people who were like, yeah, let's 1:22:17.640 --> 1:22:19.240 go get it, and the other people who are like, yeah, 1:22:19.280 --> 1:22:22.120 let's rock back a little bit and take things with 1:22:22.240 --> 1:22:29.080 more passively. So that's interesting right now. Abubaka, the guy 1:22:29.120 --> 1:22:32.400 who was the first caliph, he made it clear in 1:22:32.439 --> 1:22:37.000 his inauguration that obedience is not incumbent upon his followers 1:22:37.560 --> 1:22:40.240 if he contradicts the will of Allah. And for those 1:22:40.280 --> 1:22:44.120 who don't know, Allah is God in the Islamic religion. 1:22:45.720 --> 1:22:50.240 And yet the dominant position in Islam has been the 1:22:50.320 --> 1:22:53.920 quietest position even to this day, the activist position is 1:22:54.080 --> 1:22:57.200 less popular. Some would say some people have this idea 1:22:57.240 --> 1:23:00.439 that the only manifestation of Islam can be the unseen 1:23:00.439 --> 1:23:03.640 in the autocracies of Western Asia and the Arabian Peninsula. 1:23:04.120 --> 1:23:07.719 But even back in Islam's Heidi, there were Muslims willing 1:23:07.760 --> 1:23:12.280 to resist the tyrannical control of even religiously or ordained rulers. 1:23:14.160 --> 1:23:17.920 So back to Bastra in the eight hundreds, there was 1:23:17.960 --> 1:23:21.120 also a third category of solutions proposed, which we can 1:23:21.160 --> 1:23:24.200 call anarchists in the general sense, but not really in 1:23:24.280 --> 1:23:29.240 the actual sense. Most of the Muslim anarchists believe that 1:23:29.320 --> 1:23:33.000 society could function without the caliph. They proposed a kind 1:23:33.040 --> 1:23:37.519 of evolutionary anarchism where private property was not abolished per se, 1:23:38.080 --> 1:23:41.960 but because the ruler was considered illegitimate, the titles of 1:23:42.000 --> 1:23:46.559 property the ruler granted would also be considered illegitimate. They 1:23:46.600 --> 1:23:49.479 also argue that the caliph must be agreed upon by 1:23:49.520 --> 1:23:53.320 the entire community, which is no easy task considering how 1:23:53.439 --> 1:23:58.160 Islam divided between Sunnis and Shia's almost immediately after the 1:23:58.160 --> 1:24:04.759 prophet Muhammad died. However, without this consensus, no logismate clief 1:24:04.760 --> 1:24:07.280 could exist, and it was widely accepted that a lot 1:24:07.400 --> 1:24:11.200 did not impose obligations that were impossible to fulfill. So 1:24:11.240 --> 1:24:14.000 then it was reason that then there was really no 1:24:14.080 --> 1:24:17.760 obligation to establish legitimate clief if no consensus could be found, 1:24:18.439 --> 1:24:22.320 there's a little loopool. Basically, we need full consensus. We're 1:24:22.360 --> 1:24:25.320 never gonna get full consensus. Oh well, shrug, you. 1:24:25.280 --> 1:24:27.160 Know, yeah. 1:24:27.560 --> 1:24:31.120 And then in the time, in the contextbe this is, 1:24:31.960 --> 1:24:37.280 you know, medieval times, you're seeing a lot more. You're 1:24:37.320 --> 1:24:41.120 seeing several different political configurations and formations and ways of 1:24:41.240 --> 1:24:44.280 organizing society. So some of them at the time, we 1:24:44.280 --> 1:24:47.400 were seeing their neighbors, the Bedwinds, and the bed Winds 1:24:47.439 --> 1:24:50.719 were living without rulers like normal. So they were like, well, 1:24:50.760 --> 1:24:54.680 why can't we live without rulers like normal? And so 1:24:54.720 --> 1:24:58.400 they use that as a justification as well. And so 1:24:58.400 --> 1:25:03.200 they also had many proposed ranging from a radical decentralization 1:25:03.280 --> 1:25:07.599 of public authority to a complete disillusion of public authority. 1:25:08.400 --> 1:25:13.040 One particular genre proposals involved replacing the calief with elected officials, 1:25:13.479 --> 1:25:17.080 either completely independent of each other or join together in 1:25:17.080 --> 1:25:20.639 a federation, and these elected officials would be temporary and 1:25:20.880 --> 1:25:24.040 only remain in office when legal disputes arose or when 1:25:24.080 --> 1:25:27.000 an enemy invaded. When the problem was resolved, they would 1:25:27.000 --> 1:25:32.760 lose their position and society would return to quote unquote anarchy. 1:25:33.560 --> 1:25:36.519 There was even a minority sect which calls for the 1:25:36.560 --> 1:25:40.280 complete abolition of the state, called it Nashda, and they 1:25:40.400 --> 1:25:43.200 argue that if there wasn't sufficient agreement establish this in 1:25:43.280 --> 1:25:45.960 a clief, there can never be enough to establish law 1:25:46.040 --> 1:25:51.400 at all. They wanted not just political independence, but intellectual independence, 1:25:52.000 --> 1:25:54.599 because according to them, individuals should be able to reason 1:25:54.640 --> 1:25:58.080 for themselves and have no one above them but Allah. 1:25:58.880 --> 1:26:05.120 Basically the religious anarchist slogan one God, no masters. 1:26:05.960 --> 1:26:09.639 Yeah, right, but we'll get a twisted of course, all 1:26:09.640 --> 1:26:14.280 this radical stuff apply to them within their group alone, 1:26:14.600 --> 1:26:16.479 So if you weren't part of their group, you could 1:26:16.520 --> 1:26:17.840 still be enslaved or killed. 1:26:18.760 --> 1:26:23.880 So it's kind of a selective, yeah, it's a bit 1:26:23.920 --> 1:26:31.360 selective in their freedom mindedness. Then in eight seventeen, so 1:26:31.439 --> 1:26:34.360 a couple of years later, the center of religious power 1:26:34.400 --> 1:26:38.160 and the Muslim world collapsed with the fall of Baghdad. 1:26:38.760 --> 1:26:42.760 The chaos of civil war ensued, but in the absence 1:26:42.880 --> 1:26:46.920 of public authority, they would naturally emerge an order out 1:26:46.920 --> 1:26:49.960 of the chaos without central planet. As we've seen it 1:26:50.000 --> 1:26:53.799 again and again and again throughout history, people self organized 1:26:53.800 --> 1:26:57.720 to protect themselves and their positions collectively in times of 1:26:57.800 --> 1:27:01.040 natural disaster, in times of crisis, people come together without 1:27:01.080 --> 1:27:04.080 having a state, having without a state having to organize 1:27:04.080 --> 1:27:05.920 them and tell them what to do and how to 1:27:05.960 --> 1:27:09.720 do it. Yeah, such has been the case for centuries. 1:27:10.960 --> 1:27:12.800 And speaking of centuries, we're going to jump ahead a 1:27:12.800 --> 1:27:15.439 little bit to the twelfth century where we could see 1:27:15.439 --> 1:27:20.080 a sort of a pseudo nihilist anarchist movement called the Kalandaria, 1:27:20.760 --> 1:27:25.680 a movement of wandering ascetic Sufi dervishes from Andalusia and 1:27:25.720 --> 1:27:31.120 Spain to Iran, Central Asia, India, and Pakistan. Many of 1:27:31.120 --> 1:27:36.360 the Khalandaria had body persons and tattoos, in explicit defiance 1:27:36.400 --> 1:27:41.080 of Islamic traditions that regarded such practices as haram. Here's 1:27:41.080 --> 1:27:43.839 a bit of an interesting story. One of the earlier 1:27:44.240 --> 1:27:47.880 divisions of the Malatimir was once being followed by a 1:27:47.920 --> 1:27:52.559 crowd of admirers, and in reaction to their praise, he paused, 1:27:53.479 --> 1:28:00.760 pulled out his pep and urinated on the ground. Is 1:28:00.760 --> 1:28:03.800 a sort of a ratic It's almost like what seems 1:28:03.800 --> 1:28:04.360 like Greek guy. 1:28:05.600 --> 1:28:11.639 Oh, the one who like dies because of the d diogenies, right, 1:28:12.240 --> 1:28:15.160 so he kind kind kind of like a Muslim. 1:28:15.200 --> 1:28:20.439 Dirogenis a sort of a rejection of society and rejection 1:28:20.560 --> 1:28:23.200 of its values. As a lot of people, a lot 1:28:23.200 --> 1:28:27.400 of these divisies, they choose voluntary poverty and nudism as 1:28:27.439 --> 1:28:32.000 a lifestyle. They were reject civilization. They would have a 1:28:32.400 --> 1:28:37.040 sort of an active nihilism and director of society. One 1:28:37.080 --> 1:28:40.960 of them has been quoted in saying an effect that 1:28:41.280 --> 1:28:45.200 money is well. I don't know if I could say 1:28:45.200 --> 1:28:49.600 that before he crossed that out. I think we I 1:28:49.640 --> 1:28:53.759 think we get, we get the get the idea of course, 1:28:54.000 --> 1:28:58.200 again not really anarchism in the classical sense, so in 1:28:59.479 --> 1:29:11.680 an actual sense, but manifestation of one trend within or 1:29:11.720 --> 1:29:16.120 one streak within an anarchist movement. Steak jumphead against the 1:29:16.240 --> 1:29:21.400 nineteenth century. Now with perhaps the first anarchist to convert 1:29:21.400 --> 1:29:26.400 to Islam, Ivan Aguelli born in Sweden in eighteen sixty nine. 1:29:27.479 --> 1:29:32.479 Aguilli was interested in philosophy, spirituality, ideology and literature, and 1:29:32.520 --> 1:29:38.960 he explored new ideas ravenously. He joined the Theosophical Society 1:29:39.000 --> 1:29:42.840 in France and he met anarchist philosopher Peter Kropotkin in 1:29:42.840 --> 1:29:45.840 London in eighteen ninety one. He also began reading the 1:29:45.960 --> 1:29:50.080 Quran around in eighteen ninety two and invited Islam in 1:29:50.120 --> 1:29:54.160 eighteen ninety seven. And GWELLI wrote about Islam and anarchism 1:29:54.360 --> 1:30:00.519 fairly frequently, but he didn't really connect them together. However, 1:30:01.360 --> 1:30:07.679 there was another one, another anarchist to convinced Islam, Isabelle Everhart. 1:30:08.800 --> 1:30:11.559 She Grubb in Geneva and converted to Islam around eighteen 1:30:11.600 --> 1:30:15.360 ninety six or ninety seven, and she challenged both Eastern 1:30:15.479 --> 1:30:19.960 and Western norms through her writings and practice practice, pursuing 1:30:20.040 --> 1:30:24.000 a nomadic lifestyle in Nigeria, joining a Sufi order and 1:30:24.080 --> 1:30:27.639 expressing her unconventional spirit by dressing as a male when 1:30:27.680 --> 1:30:30.439 she felt like, taking on a male name, and pursuing 1:30:30.439 --> 1:30:36.960 a lifestyle of purported promiscuity, journalism, smoking kief, and journeying 1:30:37.000 --> 1:30:42.040 across the North African desert by horse. I think she 1:30:42.080 --> 1:30:45.559 would also be considered a figure of queer anarchist history. 1:30:47.600 --> 1:30:50.560 I wasn't able to find anything about how she identified personally, 1:30:50.680 --> 1:30:57.360 but apparently so. I don't know if she was a 1:30:57.360 --> 1:31:02.040 cross dresser or if she was tramps or something else entirely. 1:31:02.800 --> 1:31:06.320 Right, Like you get especially in that period, like like 1:31:06.439 --> 1:31:09.600 misogyny is is so rampant that like it could be 1:31:09.680 --> 1:31:13.920 necessary to like, I guess, to present as male even 1:31:13.960 --> 1:31:17.120 if you weren't like trans in you and gender identity, 1:31:17.160 --> 1:31:20.040 just to have access to things that were constrained I 1:31:20.080 --> 1:31:21.760 don't know, like delimited as mets. 1:31:21.960 --> 1:31:24.400 Rightly, Yeah, exactly makes sense. 1:31:25.000 --> 1:31:27.360 Yeah, it's I think it's why it's to just be like, 1:31:27.439 --> 1:31:30.320 we don't know, rather than to necessarily like like claim 1:31:30.360 --> 1:31:33.000 to someone's identity stuff when what we know is their 1:31:33.040 --> 1:31:34.000 presentation stuff. 1:31:35.000 --> 1:31:41.519 Agreed. Also, during this time in the Ottoman Empire, there 1:31:41.600 --> 1:31:47.040 was a not insignificant population of European anarchists, mostly Italians, 1:31:47.600 --> 1:31:51.240 you know. Alexandria alone, there were approximately twelve thousand Italians 1:31:51.240 --> 1:31:54.280 living and working, often in the building sector. By eighteen 1:31:54.280 --> 1:31:57.320 seventy six anarchists they had organized a branch of the 1:31:57.439 --> 1:32:02.000 Cyndicalist International Workers Association, and in the early eighteen hundreds 1:32:02.200 --> 1:32:05.720 at Coomara, Testa and other Italian anarchists joined the Urabia 1:32:05.760 --> 1:32:08.280 Prize in against the British, and this was perhaps the 1:32:08.320 --> 1:32:12.400 first time that Muslims anarchists fought a military campaign side 1:32:12.439 --> 1:32:17.439 by side other uprising was squashed. Anarchists were less harassed 1:32:17.439 --> 1:32:20.520 in the Ottoman Empire than in many other parts of Europe. 1:32:22.560 --> 1:32:26.160 Later on, in nineteen oh one, anarchists co founded a 1:32:26.200 --> 1:32:32.360 free popular university, the University Popularity Libre or UPL, in Alexandria. 1:32:32.680 --> 1:32:35.880 It provided free courses on subjects like tool stories and 1:32:36.080 --> 1:32:41.720 Cunan's ideas, the arts, pragmatic topics like working negotiation strategies, 1:32:41.800 --> 1:32:45.920 et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. However, common if you 1:32:46.000 --> 1:32:52.360 were indigenous to the region, tough luck indigenous muslim and 1:32:52.880 --> 1:32:56.840 indigenous Muslims and Arabic speakers went really part of the 1:32:56.960 --> 1:33:01.240 upls program went't really included pretty much marginalized from the 1:33:01.320 --> 1:33:05.000 education entirely, and the UPL crash became more and more 1:33:05.120 --> 1:33:12.920 aimed toward and controlled by upper class interests. So that sucks. 1:33:14.120 --> 1:33:16.680 Yeah, that's a fair yeah, lame. 1:33:17.680 --> 1:33:20.840 Very lame. Yeah, a lot of disappointments in this episode, 1:33:20.960 --> 1:33:24.000 people who are like nearly there and then kind of 1:33:24.000 --> 1:33:30.400 there of course. Yeah, but that's that's that's part of history, right, 1:33:31.800 --> 1:33:35.519 jumping head even more in the twentieth century. We got 1:33:35.520 --> 1:33:38.120 to see the fall of the Caliphate in nineteen twenty 1:33:38.120 --> 1:33:43.640 four and the two new influential currents of Salafiism or Slafism, 1:33:44.080 --> 1:33:47.799 the Muslim Brotherhood which is known for their social democratic lenans, 1:33:48.320 --> 1:33:52.280 and the Saudis, who are known for their monarchic venus. 1:33:54.160 --> 1:33:56.800 To put it likely, Yeah, that's even so. 1:33:58.680 --> 1:34:02.840 Yeah, they as possible yea, yeah, I mean we even 1:34:02.880 --> 1:34:06.360 so late on a sort of an Islamic liberation theology 1:34:06.840 --> 1:34:11.680 developing that dismissed bin Ladin and senseless and lifted up 1:34:11.720 --> 1:34:15.000 the examples of the revolutionary Barbie movement of the eighteen hundreds, 1:34:15.400 --> 1:34:19.360 Malcolm X and Ali Shariati's quest for a just and 1:34:19.479 --> 1:34:24.320 classless society. Then there's also a neo Sufi group known 1:34:24.360 --> 1:34:29.479 as the Murabhutin, the Mura Bhutun and the Inclusive Mosque 1:34:29.479 --> 1:34:33.120 Initiative in London as other examples of you know, how 1:34:33.240 --> 1:34:38.240 Islam could be used to resist some Islamic traditions. And 1:34:38.320 --> 1:34:42.280 there are also several individuals today who have explicitly and 1:34:42.320 --> 1:34:47.120 publicly self identified as Muslim anarchists, not Muslim and anarchists, 1:34:47.200 --> 1:34:52.799 but specifically Muslim anarchists, including Ab dinner Pradu and Mohammad 1:34:52.880 --> 1:34:53.920 jan Venus. 1:34:56.960 --> 1:34:59.960 That's cool. 1:35:00.040 --> 1:35:06.800 That's a sort of a basic rundown. But I think 1:35:06.840 --> 1:35:10.800 inevitably with these sort of topics you sort of fraught ideas, 1:35:11.200 --> 1:35:14.400 something like an Islamic anarchism, they're going to be some 1:35:14.640 --> 1:35:19.519 challenges and criticisms, right, Yeah, I'd like for one, you know, 1:35:19.560 --> 1:35:24.000 it's a fairly new concept, the idea of Islamic anarchism. 1:35:24.320 --> 1:35:27.040 Like I went over, there were certain trends that can 1:35:27.120 --> 1:35:33.200 be described as an archic, iphibian, generous, but the idea 1:35:33.240 --> 1:35:37.120 of Islamic anarchism as the something going out of after 1:35:37.200 --> 1:35:41.440 development of anarchism and through anarchism as a political philosophy, 1:35:42.080 --> 1:35:45.040 it's fairly new and it challenges a lot of the 1:35:45.080 --> 1:35:49.959 traditional Islamic teachings on authority and governance. So some scholars 1:35:50.040 --> 1:35:56.280 practitioners have pointed out that with the emphasis of social order, 1:35:56.560 --> 1:35:58.680 the emphasis of authority of the state in the role 1:35:58.760 --> 1:36:03.160 of law, this idea of rejecting hierarchy and authority as 1:36:03.200 --> 1:36:09.880 advocated by Islamic anarchists is you know, heretical practically. There's 1:36:09.920 --> 1:36:14.760 also some criticism that with Islamic anarchisms rejection of all 1:36:14.840 --> 1:36:19.559 forms of authority in hierarchy, it undermines the concept of tweed, 1:36:19.600 --> 1:36:24.880 which is the belief in the oneness of God, and 1:36:24.920 --> 1:36:28.040 by you know, rejecting that by undermining that concept and 1:36:28.160 --> 1:36:32.400 promoting individualism and self rule, it sort of goes against 1:36:32.560 --> 1:36:35.720 that teaching. Of course, like I mentioned earlier, there's also 1:36:35.800 --> 1:36:40.040 this challenge to the idea that Islamic anarchism or Islamic 1:36:40.080 --> 1:36:43.360 anarchism could be compatible because of the slogan and no cause, 1:36:43.439 --> 1:36:50.919 no masters right. Of course, Islamic anarchists and other Islamic 1:36:50.960 --> 1:36:53.960 socialists would argue that Islam should be seen as a 1:36:53.960 --> 1:36:56.960 liberating force that can help individuals achieve freedom from a 1:36:57.000 --> 1:37:00.160 Prussian exploitation. The same argument is made with a lot 1:37:00.200 --> 1:37:05.080 of other strands of religious anarchisms as well, and so 1:37:05.240 --> 1:37:09.400 to bring things to a sort of a close, I'd 1:37:09.439 --> 1:37:13.360 say that, you know, like every religious anarchism, like every 1:37:13.400 --> 1:37:20.120 political philosophy, like every religion, like everything, Honestly, people pick 1:37:20.360 --> 1:37:24.040 and choose, you know, in Islam you can find elements 1:37:24.080 --> 1:37:28.280 of quietism as well as activism detached to mysticism, as 1:37:28.320 --> 1:37:32.799 well as pragmatic daily concerns, traditions of violence, and traditions 1:37:32.840 --> 1:37:40.679 of non violence, moderation, and extremism. In anarchism, tensions exist 1:37:40.760 --> 1:37:47.960 between pacifism and insurrectionism, cyndicalism and individualism, nationalism and anti nationalism, 1:37:48.360 --> 1:37:55.240 collectivism and individualism. Again, and I'm not a Muslim, I'm 1:37:55.280 --> 1:37:58.320 not a religious anarchist of any variety. 1:37:58.640 --> 1:37:58.800 But. 1:38:00.720 --> 1:38:06.320 I think that there is room for even if I 1:38:06.400 --> 1:38:12.080 may not agree with it in all cases the conclusions 1:38:12.200 --> 1:38:15.439 some people draw. I think there's room for these sorts 1:38:15.479 --> 1:38:19.120 of dialogues to be had. I think there's room for 1:38:19.360 --> 1:38:25.240 exploration to the history of all sorts of historical movements 1:38:25.320 --> 1:38:30.599 and ideologies and religions and ideas, because I mean, there's 1:38:30.600 --> 1:38:35.479 a whole legacy of billions of people who have lived 1:38:35.479 --> 1:38:38.280 and died long before us, and I think I find 1:38:38.280 --> 1:38:43.000 it interesting, at least as a thought exercise, to see 1:38:43.479 --> 1:38:45.760 how they came to their conclusions as well. So I 1:38:45.800 --> 1:38:50.920 hope this episode was thought provoking, enlightening and interesting to 1:38:51.640 --> 1:38:52.920 those who tuned in. 1:38:54.120 --> 1:38:55.280 Yeah, it was good. 1:38:55.360 --> 1:38:57.519 It's always interesting to see these Yeah, like, we don't 1:38:57.520 --> 1:38:59.839 have to agree with all of it, but it's interesting 1:38:59.880 --> 1:39:02.720 to see where people come at these things from. It 1:39:02.840 --> 1:39:05.240 was I was wondering if you were going to get 1:39:05.280 --> 1:39:07.840 to or not. But like one of the things that 1:39:07.880 --> 1:39:12.240 you saw in the Spanish like not really the Civil 1:39:12.280 --> 1:39:15.040 War as much, but in the Second Republic was the 1:39:15.120 --> 1:39:21.160 socialists and like left liberals explicitly selling out like Moroccan 1:39:21.960 --> 1:39:25.880 Muslim people and North African people more generally whatever their faith, 1:39:25.920 --> 1:39:29.439 and anarchists being like, no, we should express solidarity with 1:39:29.479 --> 1:39:32.599 these people, like even if we if they are aren't 1:39:32.600 --> 1:39:34.760 and some of them were part of like they were 1:39:34.720 --> 1:39:38.720 anarchists in Spanish North Africa of course, but like even 1:39:38.760 --> 1:39:42.080 if they weren't, being like, we should oppose colonialism, and 1:39:43.000 --> 1:39:46.519 when every other kind of left stripe didn't, it's kind 1:39:46.520 --> 1:39:49.519 of one of the failing sort of public not to So, yeah, 1:39:49.520 --> 1:39:51.559 they've been these conversations, I guess for a long time. 1:39:51.640 --> 1:39:54.360 Like it was interesting to hear about those Sufi's in 1:39:54.400 --> 1:39:57.920 Spain and think about how long those conversations have been 1:39:57.920 --> 1:39:58.840 going back and forth, you. 1:39:58.840 --> 1:40:03.400 Know, exactly exactly. I think the whole Iberian Peninsula's really 1:40:03.400 --> 1:40:07.160 interesting reachion in terms of the confluence of cultures. I 1:40:07.160 --> 1:40:11.080 did miss that particular historical instance in my research with 1:40:11.160 --> 1:40:12.160 also pointing it out. 1:40:12.520 --> 1:40:14.519 Yeah, no worries big Nerd for that stuff. 1:40:17.680 --> 1:40:20.200 Is there anything you'd like to plug before we get Andrew. 1:40:20.960 --> 1:40:25.520 Sure, sure, so. You can find me on YouTube at andrewism, 1:40:26.680 --> 1:40:31.599 on patreon dot com slash Saint Drew, and I've logged 1:40:31.720 --> 1:40:36.120 off of Twitter, but if you want to get updates 1:40:37.080 --> 1:40:40.559 when I do decide to log in to post updates 1:40:40.560 --> 1:40:43.920 here and there, you could follow me on Twitter at underscore. 1:40:44.880 --> 1:40:47.120 Thank you, Andrew, Take care everyone. 1:40:47.240 --> 1:41:07.200 Peace, Oh boy, Welcome to It could happen here a 1:41:07.320 --> 1:41:12.000 podcast about things falling apart and sometimes stuff that's less 1:41:12.000 --> 1:41:14.600 depressing than that. This is gonna be a mix of 1:41:14.640 --> 1:41:18.400 both of those things. I'm Robert Evans. My co hosts 1:41:18.800 --> 1:41:23.960 for today are James Stout and Mia Wong. How are 1:41:24.000 --> 1:41:26.800 we both? How are we all? How's everybody? How's everybody feeling? 1:41:28.080 --> 1:41:33.400 I'm anticipating eagerly the topic of today's episode, so I'm 1:41:33.400 --> 1:41:36.280 excited like a kid Christmas. Yeah. 1:41:36.320 --> 1:41:39.400 So, James, that answers my question for you. But Mia, 1:41:39.439 --> 1:41:41.600 have you ever heard of Lord Miles Rutledge. 1:41:42.160 --> 1:41:46.559 I have seen him on Twitter and I cannot express 1:41:46.600 --> 1:41:48.080 how excited I am for this. 1:41:48.560 --> 1:41:52.439 So we are talking about a real piece of shit today. 1:41:52.600 --> 1:41:55.560 This is kind of relevant to our I try to 1:41:55.600 --> 1:41:59.760 always justify you know, our purview is broadly speaking, collapse, 1:42:00.040 --> 1:42:03.040 you know, what we call the crumbles, and Miles Rutledge 1:42:03.120 --> 1:42:06.479 is a perfect example of the kind of grifters and 1:42:06.600 --> 1:42:10.479 conmen who sort of sort of seep in at the 1:42:10.600 --> 1:42:14.040 edges of war and disaster and calamity and have for forever, 1:42:14.160 --> 1:42:18.120 you know, they're in behind the bastards. We've done a 1:42:18.160 --> 1:42:22.200 couple episodes on like different white people who tried at 1:42:22.240 --> 1:42:25.160 various points to like conquer Latin American nations, and like 1:42:25.240 --> 1:42:28.760 the seventeen and eighteen hundreds, just kind of during these 1:42:28.800 --> 1:42:31.240 periods of there would be a bunch of rebellions going on, 1:42:31.360 --> 1:42:33.439 and so like some group of mercenaries would be like, 1:42:33.760 --> 1:42:37.520 I bet we can like steal Nicaragua, right, let's Goways 1:42:37.520 --> 1:42:40.920 wear the shot. You know, you get these kind of 1:42:41.000 --> 1:42:44.160 like these kind of people, and Lord Myles Rutledge is 1:42:44.200 --> 1:42:48.040 sort of the lower body count end of that, but 1:42:48.080 --> 1:42:51.000 in some ways a lot more frustrating because at least, look, 1:42:51.320 --> 1:42:56.400 there's there's something respectable about trying to violently conquer another 1:42:56.520 --> 1:42:59.720 country and then getting murdered yourself. There's at least like 1:42:59.760 --> 1:43:03.360 a a degree of honesty there. This guy, Miles Rutledge 1:43:03.439 --> 1:43:08.400 is like purely but like doing war tourism in order 1:43:08.439 --> 1:43:11.160 to like pump his his TikTok and his Instagram and 1:43:11.160 --> 1:43:14.479 his YouTube. And I find that worse than like, I 1:43:14.479 --> 1:43:17.080 don't know those guys who tried to overthrow Venezuela and 1:43:17.120 --> 1:43:22.720 got captured by fishermen. So they were great, yeah, and 1:43:22.760 --> 1:43:25.519 then laid in their own piss on camera. Beautiful story, 1:43:25.640 --> 1:43:32.160 perfect story, took a b begun with them, Such a 1:43:32.200 --> 1:43:36.360 good story. And this one has a similar this story, thankfully, 1:43:36.360 --> 1:43:38.920 Miles the story has has a is an ending almost 1:43:39.000 --> 1:43:43.519 that satisfying. So Miles Rutledge was born on James. Actually, 1:43:43.520 --> 1:43:44.960 I'm gonna I'm gonna bring you in for a second. 1:43:45.040 --> 1:43:47.160 How do I spell this last name? R o U 1:43:47.240 --> 1:43:49.920 T l E d g E. He's British age. 1:43:50.680 --> 1:43:55.600 Routledge believe if it's the same as the academic publisher, 1:43:55.800 --> 1:43:58.560 which which is spelled the same, and then it's Routledge. 1:43:58.600 --> 1:44:00.760 And look, I don't give a fuck about scary field. 1:44:00.760 --> 1:44:01.960 Sad to say, have we won? 1:44:02.520 --> 1:44:07.880 Yeah? Okay, So Miles Routledge was born on September fourteenth, 1:44:08.080 --> 1:44:12.320 nineteen ninety nine, probably somewhere near Birmingham. I don't think 1:44:12.320 --> 1:44:15.200 we have, like like it's just kind of based on shit, 1:44:15.320 --> 1:44:17.839 he said. But yeah, I don't see why he'd probably 1:44:17.880 --> 1:44:20.559 he'd lie about that. I don't think people brag about 1:44:20.600 --> 1:44:21.640 coming from Birmingham. 1:44:21.920 --> 1:44:28.680 Yeah, it's like yeah, yeah. 1:44:28.800 --> 1:44:33.040 So unfortunately, thanks to generations of medical advancements, he survived 1:44:33.120 --> 1:44:35.280 to adulthood. Because he does strike me as the kind 1:44:35.320 --> 1:44:37.240 of person who wouldn't have done that in like the 1:44:37.280 --> 1:44:40.599 eighteen hundreds, he got into the University of I'm gonna 1:44:40.600 --> 1:44:42.160 need your help here again, James. 1:44:42.000 --> 1:44:45.040 Lowborough, Luffborough, Luffbrough. 1:44:45.160 --> 1:44:51.679 Unbelievable. That sounds like an incredibly obscure World War two 1:44:51.800 --> 1:44:53.479 German aerial division or something. 1:44:53.800 --> 1:44:59.519 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's like the very Broie section 1:44:59.560 --> 1:45:05.439 of the So he gets into the University of luft 1:45:05.520 --> 1:45:10.040 bro as a fucking physics student, or so he says, 1:45:10.120 --> 1:45:12.760 and sometime within the last two years he got an 1:45:12.760 --> 1:45:15.160 internship at an investment banking firm. 1:45:16.040 --> 1:45:19.000 So the guy a kind of guy. 1:45:19.640 --> 1:45:22.719 He's laser targeted on a career as a giant piece 1:45:22.760 --> 1:45:27.519 of shit. But I haven't found much in my casual 1:45:27.560 --> 1:45:30.280 research about his financial situation or how much money he 1:45:30.360 --> 1:45:32.840 was born into. But I think he was like, I'm 1:45:32.840 --> 1:45:35.160 gonna guess his parents were at least comfortable because, as 1:45:35.200 --> 1:45:37.719 a young man still in college, he had the funds 1:45:37.760 --> 1:45:41.720 to travel pretty extensively, starting in twenty nineteen when he 1:45:41.800 --> 1:45:45.280 visited the Chernobyl Exclusion Zone. Now, this is one of 1:45:45.320 --> 1:45:47.720 the most popular destinations in the world for what is 1:45:47.800 --> 1:45:51.519 called dark tourism, and this is largely this is people 1:45:51.560 --> 1:45:55.240 who live kind of boring lives otherwise traveling to places 1:45:55.280 --> 1:45:57.800 that sound scary in order to impress people on like 1:45:57.960 --> 1:46:00.360 the TikTok or whatever. Now I just said that, but 1:46:00.640 --> 1:46:03.479 I don't think there's anything wrong. Now, there's like a 1:46:03.760 --> 1:46:06.679 lot of problems with getting to Chernobyle because of the war, 1:46:06.720 --> 1:46:09.599 but like prior to the expand innovation, I don't think 1:46:09.600 --> 1:46:12.640 there's anything wrong with wanting to like see Chernobyle. My 1:46:12.920 --> 1:46:16.559 thinking on like the ethics of going somewhere dangerous or 1:46:16.560 --> 1:46:20.280 whatever is like, are you increasing the odds of like 1:46:20.760 --> 1:46:24.760 causing a problem that diverts medical resources or other resources 1:46:24.800 --> 1:46:28.320 in a way that like harms people who have no 1:46:28.439 --> 1:46:31.080 choice in being there? Right, and visiting Chernobyl whatever, You're 1:46:31.120 --> 1:46:35.280 not really putting anyone at risk, So that's fine. But 1:46:35.479 --> 1:46:38.760 in may of twenty twenty one, though Miles Rutledge made 1:46:38.760 --> 1:46:40.680 the decision to plan a trip to somewhere that it 1:46:40.800 --> 1:46:45.719 was distinctly not fine to visit as a tourist, Afghanistan. Now, 1:46:46.040 --> 1:46:48.080 he decided to head over there during kind of the 1:46:48.200 --> 1:46:50.720 end stages of the war. Although if you guys can 1:46:50.760 --> 1:46:56.240 remember back that far, the collapse of the Afghan government 1:46:56.360 --> 1:46:59.559 that the United States had backed happened more rapidly than 1:46:59.640 --> 1:47:02.519 most people had predicted, so it was kind of like 1:47:03.040 --> 1:47:05.240 less clear I think when he booked his trip that 1:47:05.280 --> 1:47:07.400 thinks we're going to fall apart quite that quickly. 1:47:08.040 --> 1:47:11.320 Yeah, humor to feel the same way about that. 1:47:11.560 --> 1:47:15.120 Yeah, yeah, yeah, So yeah, it's one of those things 1:47:15.160 --> 1:47:19.840 where like Miles, you know, his plan to go there 1:47:19.960 --> 1:47:21.960 was again not as like he's not heading there as 1:47:21.960 --> 1:47:24.519 a journalist. There's not like a story he wants to tell. 1:47:24.560 --> 1:47:27.719 He's not traveling there for kind of a practical purpose, 1:47:28.080 --> 1:47:30.519 Like he really does frame this as just he wanted 1:47:30.560 --> 1:47:32.840 to go on vacation, and he wanted to go on 1:47:32.960 --> 1:47:36.320 vacation specifically for what I think is probably like the 1:47:36.400 --> 1:47:40.280 dumbest reason I've ever heard of anyone choosing of a 1:47:40.479 --> 1:47:45.160 vacation location, especially choosing fucking Afghanistan as a vacation location. 1:47:45.240 --> 1:47:47.240 I'm going to play a clip from one of his 1:47:47.800 --> 1:47:48.719 YouTube videos. 1:47:48.760 --> 1:47:50.960 Now, why am I in Afghanistan? 1:47:51.000 --> 1:47:52.160 Well, that's a really good question. 1:47:52.280 --> 1:47:56.080 During COVID lockdowns. Afghanistan's only open without a vaccine man date, 1:47:56.160 --> 1:47:57.000 So I just think. 1:47:58.000 --> 1:48:01.840 I've never heard his voice before. I'm more angry now. 1:48:04.760 --> 1:48:09.000 To Afghanistan because they don't have a fucking vaccine mandate. 1:48:09.840 --> 1:48:15.160 Oh my fucking real warrior for freedom. 1:48:15.520 --> 1:48:23.000 Yeah, just the just the dumbest idiot. I hate him. 1:48:23.320 --> 1:48:26.680 So anyway, as a result of wanting to avoid the 1:48:26.760 --> 1:48:30.200 vaccine mandate, Miles joined the long and historic line of 1:48:30.280 --> 1:48:32.800 young British Men who have gone out to Afghanistan on 1:48:32.840 --> 1:48:36.519 a lark. Unfortunately, unlike many of them, Miles would survive 1:48:36.600 --> 1:48:39.920 his adventure. He does not seem to have a regular 1:48:39.960 --> 1:48:43.280 Wikipedia yet, but he does have an entry on something 1:48:43.320 --> 1:48:48.360 called everybody Wiki, which yeah, yeah, which I hadn't heard 1:48:48.360 --> 1:48:52.719 it that one before, but it's it very hilariously lists 1:48:52.760 --> 1:48:56.559 his occupation as quote, posting online during the twenty twenty 1:48:56.560 --> 1:48:57.639 one Siege of Kabul. 1:49:01.960 --> 1:49:04.719 That's great, that's that's actually Tim Kennedy. 1:49:04.880 --> 1:49:05.360 That's great. 1:49:07.840 --> 1:49:12.240 So for obvious reasons. He encountered difficulties. He wound up 1:49:12.280 --> 1:49:14.040 sleeping by the side of the road one night, he 1:49:14.120 --> 1:49:18.120 was taken into Taliban custody. While he makes a big 1:49:18.160 --> 1:49:20.400 deal out of this, I actually don't think he was 1:49:20.439 --> 1:49:23.360 ever in serious danger, particularly not compared to, for example, 1:49:23.400 --> 1:49:25.680 the people fighting and dying or the civilians and said 1:49:25.720 --> 1:49:28.000 he's taken by the Taliban, who had to endure an 1:49:28.000 --> 1:49:31.160 often violent change of regime when the Taliban was taking 1:49:31.200 --> 1:49:34.080 over here. And lets you know, obviously there's the danger 1:49:34.120 --> 1:49:36.640 of like accidents on the road, which is always a 1:49:36.680 --> 1:49:39.080 significant danger in a place called like Afghanistan. There's the 1:49:39.200 --> 1:49:42.240 danger of you know, being caught up in a fight 1:49:42.400 --> 1:49:46.360 or something potentially, But the Taliban in this kind of 1:49:46.439 --> 1:49:48.800 late stage of their takeover, had no desire to harm 1:49:48.800 --> 1:49:51.479 a British citizen like Miles, or to harm like, you know, 1:49:51.600 --> 1:49:54.479 Americans who were in the country. And in fact, we're 1:49:54.560 --> 1:49:56.400 working kind of in the later stages of the US 1:49:56.439 --> 1:49:59.000 evacuation to try to make sure it happened peacefully, not 1:49:59.000 --> 1:50:01.200 because the Taliban is so good guys, but because like 1:50:01.560 --> 1:50:05.080 there's no geopolitical benefit to them from like a random 1:50:05.120 --> 1:50:07.960 British traveler dying. It's just gonna cause problems for them. 1:50:08.640 --> 1:50:10.600 Yeah, it's just stress and a. 1:50:11.320 --> 1:50:14.160 Yeah, like they didn't have like, I don't believe they were. 1:50:14.240 --> 1:50:20.080 The Taliban was, ever, like threatened his life in any way. Miles, though, 1:50:20.240 --> 1:50:22.680 posted through it, reporting that he was stuck in a 1:50:22.720 --> 1:50:26.080 pickle and giving details of his experience to fans on 1:50:26.120 --> 1:50:29.360 four Chan and Twitch. He started using the name James. 1:50:29.360 --> 1:50:31.200 You had asked about this, he started using the name 1:50:31.280 --> 1:50:33.960 Lord Miles due to the fact that he had purchased 1:50:33.960 --> 1:50:37.519 a fifteen pound lordship certificate as a bit I knew, 1:50:38.520 --> 1:50:41.080 I knew. Yeah, yeah, yeah, not that surprising. 1:50:41.200 --> 1:50:41.599 Huh. 1:50:41.760 --> 1:50:43.559 What can't say that? 1:50:44.520 --> 1:50:47.839 Sorry, no you can You're you're you're British. 1:50:47.840 --> 1:50:50.040 It's fine, okay, Daniel, Yeah, I leave that one in. 1:50:50.360 --> 1:50:55.400 That is my conviction. I what a twat, Sorry, what 1:50:55.439 --> 1:50:58.920 an absolute prick because he's what's really fucking frustrated. Everything 1:50:58.920 --> 1:51:01.839 about his existence is for frustrating right now. So it's 1:51:02.120 --> 1:51:05.960 what's so annoying is he's playing this fucking twee parochial 1:51:06.080 --> 1:51:09.800 version of Britishness for an exclusively in American audience. Right, 1:51:09.800 --> 1:51:13.200 if you're born near fucking Birmingham, we're not all. Look, 1:51:13.520 --> 1:51:16.479 we are not all pride and prejudice people. And if 1:51:16.479 --> 1:51:18.880 you've moved to another country, you will constantly encounter people 1:51:18.880 --> 1:51:21.920 thinking you grew up in Harry Potterland. But like, we're 1:51:22.000 --> 1:51:26.080 not all turfs either. But like he's fucking doing it, 1:51:26.160 --> 1:51:28.559 like and he's doing it like a naive America. Like 1:51:29.080 --> 1:51:32.599 there are like the Scottish Parliament has made statements about 1:51:32.640 --> 1:51:37.559 not buying these stupid Scottish titles. Yeah, here's a pray. 1:51:38.160 --> 1:51:41.800 Yeah, it's it's very silly. He justified this by saying, 1:51:41.800 --> 1:51:44.160 because I think he buys it while he's in Afghanistan, 1:51:44.320 --> 1:51:47.240 he explained to his followers, the Taliban may see that 1:51:47.280 --> 1:51:52.000 as a reason to keep me alive, some negotiating powder powers. 1:51:52.000 --> 1:51:55.120 They'll think I'm important. They don't care. They don't want 1:51:55.160 --> 1:51:58.599 any fucking Westerners dying in the country because it'll fuck 1:51:58.680 --> 1:52:01.120 up their chances of like you know, they want to 1:52:01.160 --> 1:52:04.840 get integrated to the like fucking global economy. They want 1:52:04.840 --> 1:52:07.439 to qualify for like loans and ship like they don't 1:52:07.479 --> 1:52:10.240 want to They don't want the problems that you dying bring, 1:52:10.360 --> 1:52:12.559 Like you being a lord has not going to impact 1:52:12.560 --> 1:52:13.240 this in any way. 1:52:13.600 --> 1:52:14.360 Yeah, and they don't. 1:52:14.360 --> 1:52:17.960 They don't want like the British government deciding like, oh, ship, 1:52:18.040 --> 1:52:20.160 they killed someone, now we need to just bomb like 1:52:20.520 --> 1:52:22.120 cobble for eight months or whatever. 1:52:22.880 --> 1:52:25.400 Now. I don't want to say in his defense because 1:52:25.400 --> 1:52:26.680 I would not like to speak in his defense. But 1:52:26.720 --> 1:52:28.640 I will say that the one person who might be 1:52:28.680 --> 1:52:31.719 conned by a lordship you bought online is Boris Johnson. 1:52:32.120 --> 1:52:36.559 Yeah, have an impact on Bojo. 1:52:38.080 --> 1:52:39.720 Yeah, but it is. 1:52:39.920 --> 1:52:42.040 It is not defense. It's not like Bojo's gonna be 1:52:42.040 --> 1:52:43.280 sticking around for very long. 1:52:43.400 --> 1:52:43.519 Right. 1:52:43.720 --> 1:52:46.840 You have like you every every every like seven weeks, 1:52:46.880 --> 1:52:49.400 you are rolling a dice as to whether the Conservative 1:52:49.439 --> 1:52:51.679 PM is someone you can con with the lordship title. 1:52:51.880 --> 1:52:55.040 Yeah. Well, none of them in the last few years 1:52:55.080 --> 1:52:57.440 have been what I would call intellectual titans. 1:52:58.800 --> 1:52:59.360 That's true. 1:52:59.400 --> 1:53:02.920 But but but Hope springs a turtle, Rishi sud acts 1:53:02.920 --> 1:53:06.240 in trouble too, so they might I don't know. 1:53:07.880 --> 1:53:12.599 A brave shot. You just really go down the fast road. 1:53:13.000 --> 1:53:15.920 I really I feel sorry for you all across the pond. 1:53:15.960 --> 1:53:18.040 I can't imagine what it would be like to have 1:53:18.400 --> 1:53:21.479 your politicians be national laughing stocks. I mean, that's just 1:53:21.520 --> 1:53:24.000 gotta be that's just got to be hard. No American, 1:53:24.360 --> 1:53:27.479 we we'll ever know what that's like. We are ruled 1:53:27.520 --> 1:53:31.759 by the hero of Ireland. Oh I I was gonna 1:53:31.800 --> 1:53:34.360 talk about, you know, my hero, the governor of Florida 1:53:34.400 --> 1:53:37.280 and his best friend, the pedophile who just committed suicide. 1:53:39.560 --> 1:53:40.680 This a different pedophile. 1:53:41.000 --> 1:53:43.880 No, this is the pedophile who like backed Santus's like 1:53:43.920 --> 1:53:46.600 early political rise and now just killed himself after he 1:53:46.640 --> 1:53:47.360 got exposed. 1:53:47.840 --> 1:53:50.439 Oh so it's this isn't all Alexander. Okay, never mind, 1:53:50.960 --> 1:53:56.880 this is a different pedophile. I'm every day there's a 1:53:56.920 --> 1:53:57.280 new one. 1:53:57.280 --> 1:53:57.679 I can't. 1:53:57.720 --> 1:53:58.320 I can't. 1:53:58.800 --> 1:54:03.680 It's not Mike Gates's a friend who's also aphile. 1:54:04.560 --> 1:54:07.280 Now you know who I cannot prove at this point 1:54:07.280 --> 1:54:10.320 as a pedophile, Miles Rutledge. So let's get back to 1:54:10.360 --> 1:54:15.880 his story please. So he also claimed during this period 1:54:15.920 --> 1:54:18.719 where he's kind of like quote unquote on the run, 1:54:19.760 --> 1:54:22.720 that the four Chan users he was posting with kept 1:54:22.760 --> 1:54:26.080 him alive by giving him updates on Taliban progress through 1:54:26.120 --> 1:54:31.560 ocent as they advanced through Kabul. That's broadly speaking, not impossible. 1:54:31.920 --> 1:54:34.960 So the idea that Miles, again, I don't believe he 1:54:35.040 --> 1:54:38.080 was ever threatened by the Taliban. They're again not nice people, 1:54:38.120 --> 1:54:40.360 but they're not like unhinten, They're not isis you know. 1:54:40.680 --> 1:54:43.600 They they are a government. They don't have a benefit 1:54:43.640 --> 1:54:48.840 in something bad happening to someone like him. So Miles, though, 1:54:48.880 --> 1:54:51.480 played up the idea that he was something between a tourist, 1:54:51.520 --> 1:54:55.240 a journalist, and a philanthropist building his trip to Afghanistan 1:54:55.360 --> 1:54:58.160 is a quote little charity thing. At the same time 1:54:58.200 --> 1:55:00.600 as he said that he was prepared for dea when 1:55:00.600 --> 1:55:03.040 he couldn't immediately secure a way out of the country, 1:55:03.480 --> 1:55:06.560 Eventually a United Nations safe house took him in and 1:55:06.600 --> 1:55:08.320 he was given a seat on one of the last 1:55:08.400 --> 1:55:14.200 planes out of the country. Now this is an actual actor. Yeah, 1:55:14.400 --> 1:55:18.280 that's frustrating because like there are people in danger from 1:55:18.320 --> 1:55:21.920 the Taliban who had no couldn't leave, right, Like he 1:55:22.080 --> 1:55:25.080 took one of their spaces. Somebody didn't get out who 1:55:25.200 --> 1:55:26.960 is in danger because of him. 1:55:27.400 --> 1:55:30.280 Yeah, Like very good friends of mine, like I spent 1:55:30.400 --> 1:55:32.720 much of that time, Like I've written about Afghanistan, I've 1:55:32.720 --> 1:55:36.960 worked with translators and like good friends of mine. Sometimes 1:55:36.960 --> 1:55:40.080 them left Afghanistan, but many of them still have their 1:55:40.080 --> 1:55:43.120 families there right, and every single day they have anxiety 1:55:43.120 --> 1:55:45.560 about whether their families are okay if something terrible has 1:55:45.560 --> 1:55:48.040 happened to them. Yeah, and this twat is just like 1:55:48.120 --> 1:55:50.680 sitting on a plane posting on four Chaney Like that 1:55:50.800 --> 1:55:51.880 makes me properly angry. 1:55:52.120 --> 1:55:54.880 Yeah, it's it's And that's again what I was talking about, Like, 1:55:54.960 --> 1:55:58.040 if you're going to if you're gonna go to a 1:55:58.120 --> 1:56:01.240 place that is that is beset conflict, you know, by 1:56:01.320 --> 1:56:04.800 civil war, by violence or anything like that. Number one, 1:56:04.840 --> 1:56:06.920 you have responsibility to like have a reason to go 1:56:07.000 --> 1:56:10.400 beyond I wonder what it's like. And you have a 1:56:10.480 --> 1:56:14.880 responsibility to not make things worse for people who don't 1:56:14.960 --> 1:56:17.640 have a choice about being there. And he did. You know, 1:56:17.760 --> 1:56:20.640 that's like fundamentally why I hate this guy is he 1:56:20.760 --> 1:56:24.440 absolutely took an opportunity to escape from I don't know, 1:56:24.480 --> 1:56:27.520 some woman's rights activist or something, you know, some somebody 1:56:27.520 --> 1:56:29.840 who was some turp or something, somebody who didn't have 1:56:29.880 --> 1:56:32.800 a choice about fucking being stuck in Afghanistan. 1:56:32.920 --> 1:56:35.480 Yeah, just some fuck you wanted a fair cracket life. 1:56:35.560 --> 1:56:40.400 And and yeah there's a prick. Yeah, yeah, it's yeah. 1:56:40.680 --> 1:56:43.080 And he could have stayed. I have friends who stayed 1:56:43.680 --> 1:56:46.840 through that time and covered it. Like your concern is 1:56:46.880 --> 1:56:48.200 for your sources, not yourself. 1:56:48.840 --> 1:56:50.880 Yeah yeah, or you could have done the thing that 1:56:50.920 --> 1:56:54.520 his ancestors didn't, just walk across the border Pakistan like 1:56:55.400 --> 1:56:59.320 your ancestors did this. This is the one thing like 1:56:59.400 --> 1:57:01.320 Hell's look. 1:57:01.280 --> 1:57:04.400 Like through the Kyber Pass and then become Sherlock Holmes 1:57:04.480 --> 1:57:09.840 his best friend. You know, that's a proud tradition, which I. 1:57:09.760 --> 1:57:11.560 Thought you were gonna go with dying man, which would 1:57:11.560 --> 1:57:14.720 have also been a very That's another proud tradition. 1:57:14.800 --> 1:57:18.800 Getting sniped by a jizil in the fucking uh Kaiber Pass. 1:57:18.840 --> 1:57:24.200 Absolutely so. He had a marvelous time in Afghanistan and 1:57:24.240 --> 1:57:27.240 immediately pivoted because he built up a big social media 1:57:27.320 --> 1:57:30.080 following around his posts there, pivoted to a career as 1:57:30.120 --> 1:57:34.240 a dark tourist influencer. He traveled next to an ireland, 1:57:34.960 --> 1:57:37.839 not an Ireland. He traveled next to an island in Brazil. 1:57:37.880 --> 1:57:40.280 There's this island off the coast of Brazil that like, 1:57:40.280 --> 1:57:42.080 like you're not allowed to go to because there's so 1:57:42.160 --> 1:57:43.240 many fucking snakes. 1:57:43.600 --> 1:57:44.720 Like it's just it's. 1:57:44.600 --> 1:57:47.280 Extremely dangerous to go there because it's covered in fucking snakes. 1:57:47.600 --> 1:57:50.000 And he like went there wearing armor, but he didn't 1:57:50.000 --> 1:57:53.920 actually run into any snakes, because snakes don't, like you know, 1:57:53.960 --> 1:57:58.240 they're not generally aggressive, most of them. He got arrested 1:57:58.280 --> 1:58:00.520 in Kenya for as best as I can and tell, 1:58:00.800 --> 1:58:05.560 being a prick nearer refugee camp, and then he traveled 1:58:05.560 --> 1:58:09.400 to Ukraine right after the expanded invasion to Ukraine to 1:58:09.400 --> 1:58:11.640 try to make the suffering of hundreds of thousands of 1:58:11.640 --> 1:58:15.280 people about him. The highlight of that trip was he 1:58:15.440 --> 1:58:17.720 claims that he drove a woman and her kid out 1:58:17.760 --> 1:58:20.600 of the country and rescued them, and also brought people 1:58:20.640 --> 1:58:27.120 snacks whatever. Miles has always been two things. He's deeply 1:58:27.240 --> 1:58:29.440 enmeshed in right wing meme culture, and he is at 1:58:29.520 --> 1:58:33.760 least superficially committed to Christian extremism. He is like kind 1:58:33.760 --> 1:58:38.200 of a at least it like signals as a fundamentalist Christian. 1:58:38.240 --> 1:58:42.080 He's super fashy right. This is not like a hidden 1:58:42.120 --> 1:58:45.440 thing within his videos and stuff. I found one write 1:58:45.480 --> 1:58:48.600 up of him on a right wing religious news website 1:58:48.640 --> 1:58:50.600 that gives you an idea of how he builds himself 1:58:50.640 --> 1:58:54.800 to his ideal audience. Miles Wroteledge is a self described Catholic, 1:58:54.840 --> 1:58:58.200 independent war journalist and charity on the ground at just 1:58:58.240 --> 1:59:00.520 twenty one. He had to do Afghanistan with the Taliban 1:59:00.600 --> 1:59:03.800 seized control, and now he's in Ukraine giving refreshing updates 1:59:03.800 --> 1:59:06.600 that are peppered with humor, reality and a little naivete. 1:59:06.920 --> 1:59:09.200 In the past, Routledge went to war torn countries and 1:59:09.240 --> 1:59:12.680 into areas no NGO or charity dared to go, according 1:59:12.720 --> 1:59:15.480 to his GoFundMe paigde, so he can hand out bibles, food, 1:59:15.600 --> 1:59:16.560 medicine and money. 1:59:17.560 --> 1:59:19.640 Well, there's a special place in hell for some time 1:59:19.760 --> 1:59:21.320 giving a stopping person a Bible. 1:59:21.640 --> 1:59:21.840 Yeah. 1:59:21.840 --> 1:59:24.680 And also like he never went to places other people 1:59:24.760 --> 1:59:27.200 wouldn't dare to go. I will guarantee you everywhere he 1:59:27.280 --> 1:59:30.800 went there were already like people like the Freeburmer rangers 1:59:30.880 --> 1:59:34.720 or even medicine sands, frontiers uh or journalists without borders, 1:59:34.760 --> 1:59:38.200 like there were there were people there. Because he's not 1:59:38.360 --> 1:59:40.480 He's not like I've seen his videos, He's not going 1:59:40.520 --> 1:59:41.360 anywhere special. 1:59:42.320 --> 1:59:45.200 There's how many people are in Callable like ten million people? 1:59:45.720 --> 1:59:49.240 Yes, these are big cities, he's four million people sure, 1:59:49.520 --> 1:59:52.560 Playing off of kind of these the provincialism of his 1:59:52.640 --> 1:59:54.760 audience and the fact that most people in the West 1:59:54.800 --> 1:59:58.080 when they hear Afghanistan or now Ukraine when they hear it, 1:59:58.200 --> 1:59:59.960 or like even like a place like Kenya, which is 2:00:00.160 --> 2:00:03.000 like a massive country with major cities and all sorts 2:00:03.000 --> 2:00:05.960 of stuff like that, like, oh, these places are just 2:00:06.160 --> 2:00:08.280 death traps and you don't go there, and like, no, man, 2:00:08.400 --> 2:00:10.240 even like I would get this when i'd go to 2:00:10.320 --> 2:00:13.040 I've spent a lot, visited Arax seven or eight times, 2:00:13.040 --> 2:00:15.280 and it's like, no, man, it's like most of it's 2:00:15.320 --> 2:00:17.720 just a country. Like, yeah, there's specific things you have 2:00:17.760 --> 2:00:20.080 to keep in mind that are dangerous, but like it's 2:00:20.120 --> 2:00:22.480 just a place, like millions of people live there and 2:00:22.560 --> 2:00:23.600 don't die every day. 2:00:25.040 --> 2:00:27.720 Yeah, this is ludicrous to suggest that he was in 2:00:27.760 --> 2:00:29.640 any day. Yeah, like you could go to all these 2:00:29.640 --> 2:00:32.240 places and stay in a five star hotel and yeah, 2:00:32.280 --> 2:00:35.640 like you're not in any danger, especially as a. 2:00:35.640 --> 2:00:36.640 Rich white British guy. 2:00:36.720 --> 2:00:39.960 Brady ground by, Yeah, to the extent that he's like 2:00:40.000 --> 2:00:43.520 in Ukraine and traveling near the front where there's like 2:00:43.680 --> 2:00:46.320 random missiles and shelling, Yeah there's some danger, but again 2:00:46.720 --> 2:00:51.160 it's danger that he is exposing himself to unnecessarily and 2:00:51.640 --> 2:00:55.600 then creating a situation whereby if he is injured, that's 2:00:55.960 --> 2:00:58.840 a bunch of morphine and antibiotics that can't go to 2:00:58.880 --> 2:01:01.840 a fucking civilian who had no choice because they were 2:01:02.040 --> 2:01:07.480 raised in constantiniva or whatever. You know, Like, yeah, fucking yeah, 2:01:07.640 --> 2:01:13.360 he's a praise Yeah, yeah, so I mentioned a little earlier, 2:01:13.560 --> 2:01:17.080 he's definitely a fascist. And you know when I say that, 2:01:17.200 --> 2:01:19.920 sometimes people do the whole ou lefties will call anything 2:01:19.960 --> 2:01:23.440 a fascist. Don't worry, I have some receipts on this one. 2:01:23.760 --> 2:01:27.800 So shortly after his famous trip to Afghanistan, he published 2:01:27.840 --> 2:01:30.440 a book about his very brief time in the country. 2:01:30.840 --> 2:01:33.760 This book included some interesting claims, like that he was 2:01:33.800 --> 2:01:35.839 the last person to enter the country on a tourist 2:01:35.880 --> 2:01:38.560 visa before the fall of Kabul, and that his visa 2:01:38.600 --> 2:01:41.920 had required a personal statement explaining his reasons for visiting. 2:01:42.160 --> 2:01:45.000 He wrote, quote, my response was simply an a four 2:01:45.040 --> 2:01:47.480 sheet of paper with only the word fun written on it. 2:01:47.480 --> 2:01:50.040 It was accepted without question. I was ready for my 2:01:50.200 --> 2:01:53.600 very own white boy summer. He also notes that the 2:01:53.720 --> 2:01:58.760 last right, which was at the time kind of like 2:01:58.800 --> 2:02:02.760 a meme in you know, fashy online Nazi circles, it 2:02:02.800 --> 2:02:08.520 was all over telegram. He also known to very pragmatic 2:02:08.640 --> 2:02:12.360 child yeah, although not problematic in this sense. Chet did 2:02:12.400 --> 2:02:16.080 not I think mean for that to happen. He's just 2:02:16.160 --> 2:02:19.000 problematic in other ways. So he also notes that the 2:02:19.080 --> 2:02:23.000 last thing he did before leaving was rewatch American Psycho, 2:02:23.160 --> 2:02:26.440 which he described as a sacred male experience. I will 2:02:26.480 --> 2:02:28.560 remind you all that that is a movie directed by 2:02:28.560 --> 2:02:33.120 a woman. He also writes about the fact that he 2:02:33.280 --> 2:02:36.600 ordered a meal at the airport before leaving, but decided 2:02:36.640 --> 2:02:39.040 not to eat it because it was likely filled with soy. 2:02:39.280 --> 2:02:41.520 He goes on like a whole diatribe about how Afghanistan 2:02:41.600 --> 2:02:43.760 is probably safer for him because there's no soy in the. 2:02:43.720 --> 2:02:45.760 Food, just. 2:02:47.800 --> 2:02:50.440 So. The weird right wing memes and signaling, all of 2:02:50.480 --> 2:02:52.480 which are like he's always like a year or two 2:02:52.560 --> 2:02:55.120 out of date on his like far right signaling and 2:02:55.120 --> 2:02:57.400 stuff too, which is weird. All of it makes a 2:02:57.400 --> 2:03:00.120 little more sense when you realize that the book that 2:03:00.160 --> 2:03:04.000 he wrote about Afghanistan was published with Antelope Hill Publishing. 2:03:05.280 --> 2:03:12.680 Oh yeah, yeah, James, he recognized that, didn't you. Yeah yeah, 2:03:12.720 --> 2:03:17.480 It is an explicitly fascist publisher. So on the Antelope 2:03:17.480 --> 2:03:20.680 Pill page for his stupid book, the recommended books beneath It, 2:03:20.720 --> 2:03:21.920 you know you've got the main book and is like 2:03:21.960 --> 2:03:24.000 this is if you like this book, read these books 2:03:24.200 --> 2:03:25.880 are a collection of One of the books is a 2:03:25.920 --> 2:03:29.320 collection of speech speeches from Kai Murros, who is a 2:03:29.480 --> 2:03:32.400 Finnish right wing activist who was formerly a maoist but 2:03:32.560 --> 2:03:36.640 is now a white nationalist revolutionary advocate who suppose supports 2:03:36.680 --> 2:03:40.680 total racial war against asylum seekers and immigrants. He advocates 2:03:40.720 --> 2:03:44.160 for an uprising in the UK in which all university 2:03:44.200 --> 2:03:46.240 staff will be executed by death squads. 2:03:46.600 --> 2:03:47.760 So he hasn't gone. 2:03:47.560 --> 2:03:49.120 That far from the malm So. 2:03:49.080 --> 2:03:52.000 Not that far there, Like, look, there's still pieces of it. 2:03:52.440 --> 2:03:55.600 So the next book that's recommended if you're interested in 2:03:55.640 --> 2:03:58.560 Miles's book is The Death Company, which is a first 2:03:58.600 --> 2:04:01.600 hand account of the Italian in World War One that 2:04:01.720 --> 2:04:05.800 was very influential among early fascists. And then there's Let 2:04:05.840 --> 2:04:08.760 Them Look West by Marty Phillips. I found a review 2:04:08.800 --> 2:04:11.520 of this book on a website called the White Art Collective, 2:04:11.680 --> 2:04:13.640 and I'm going to read a quote from that now. 2:04:14.040 --> 2:04:17.839 So this is a Nazi reviewing this book by a Nazi. 2:04:18.000 --> 2:04:19.440 Right, good stuff. 2:04:20.160 --> 2:04:23.440 Yeah, here's him describing the book. Rob Cohen is a 2:04:23.440 --> 2:04:26.440 big city writer sent on assignment to interview James Alexander, 2:04:26.480 --> 2:04:29.320 the governor of Wyoming, a fundamentalist Christian who has revived 2:04:29.320 --> 2:04:32.200 his state with, among other things, a Christian themed public 2:04:32.200 --> 2:04:35.680 works program and Mount Calvary, an artificial mountain which villagers 2:04:35.720 --> 2:04:38.040 climb up and pass the stations of the Cross, then 2:04:38.160 --> 2:04:40.920 view a live action recreation of the Crucifixion with music 2:04:40.960 --> 2:04:43.680 by a live choir. The first few chapters until Rob 2:04:43.760 --> 2:04:46.720 meets Alexander, feel like a dead pan satire of apocalypse. 2:04:46.760 --> 2:04:47.000 Now. 2:04:47.320 --> 2:04:49.160 Rob didn't want a mission, but for his sins, he 2:04:49.200 --> 2:04:50.800 was given one. He's a fish out of water who 2:04:50.800 --> 2:04:52.840 has to navigate and improvise his way to the goal. 2:04:53.040 --> 2:04:55.760 There's a magical realism vibe of the book despite nothing 2:04:55.840 --> 2:04:59.000 overly supernatural occurring, and maybe this is why Phillips calls 2:04:59.000 --> 2:05:01.960 it a mundane phantom. But it's also a mundane fantasy 2:05:02.000 --> 2:05:04.600 for the simple reason that the America and Wyoming described 2:05:04.640 --> 2:05:06.879 in the book are so far beyond what is possible 2:05:07.080 --> 2:05:11.640 that suspension of disbelief is required. Even the Nazi seems 2:05:11.800 --> 2:05:14.400 like to think it's kind of a shit book, which 2:05:14.440 --> 2:05:17.839 is very funny to me. So again, if you publish 2:05:17.960 --> 2:05:22.040 your book with Antelope Pill, Like you are comfortable, at 2:05:22.040 --> 2:05:25.040 the very least comfortable with having your book advertised next 2:05:25.080 --> 2:05:27.240 to explicitly Nazi power fantasies. 2:05:27.440 --> 2:05:31.200 Yeah, you know, going to Antler, you know we've both 2:05:31.240 --> 2:05:34.600 published books, Like, Yeah, it wouldn't have occurred to me 2:05:34.680 --> 2:05:35.360 to even try. 2:05:35.800 --> 2:05:39.280 Yeah, they are the Nazi one of the Nazist publishers 2:05:39.280 --> 2:05:43.560 out there. In April of twenty twenty two, Miles attempted 2:05:43.560 --> 2:05:47.640 to re enter Afghanistan. He claimed in videos that his 2:05:47.720 --> 2:05:50.440 goal was to rescue a tour guide and his family 2:05:50.480 --> 2:05:53.120 who were threatened by the Taliban, but he wound up 2:05:53.160 --> 2:05:55.920 stuck in Pakistan, claiming that this guide had lied to 2:05:56.000 --> 2:05:58.520 him and claimed that the border was closed to British people. 2:05:59.720 --> 2:06:02.280 He he's like, to be fair, I have no issues 2:06:02.280 --> 2:06:05.560 with this. No, that would be fine. He gets like 2:06:05.640 --> 2:06:08.000 he starts like freaking out in the video, he's like 2:06:08.000 --> 2:06:10.760 a near tears and stuff. He claims that he'd spent 2:06:10.880 --> 2:06:14.080 fifteen thousand pounds on the trip and now he was broke, 2:06:14.200 --> 2:06:15.920 so obviously he uses that he has to beg for 2:06:16.000 --> 2:06:18.400 money from his followers, which I kind of wonder if 2:06:18.400 --> 2:06:20.320 that was just the whole point of the trip. He 2:06:20.360 --> 2:06:24.080 also pointed, posted whiney status updates, claiming his life had 2:06:24.080 --> 2:06:26.800 been ruined by the failed trip. Quote, this means I 2:06:26.800 --> 2:06:28.760 can't go on a date with a girl I really liked. 2:06:28.800 --> 2:06:31.320 It means I can't sponsor a joint adventure with my friend. 2:06:31.400 --> 2:06:33.400 I will go home to an empty room. I am 2:06:33.480 --> 2:06:37.480 at my end, but I know, big baby. 2:06:37.800 --> 2:06:38.000 Yeah. 2:06:38.640 --> 2:06:41.080 Despite his failure, he did not give up on his 2:06:41.200 --> 2:06:44.560 dreams of stumbling through Afghanistan again. For the sake of content, 2:06:44.920 --> 2:06:47.200 he put together another trip for the start of twenty 2:06:47.240 --> 2:06:50.560 twenty three. In late February, as he geared up to go, 2:06:50.640 --> 2:06:52.920 he made some tweets to his followers that give us 2:06:52.960 --> 2:06:56.000 more unfortunate context as to the sort of person he is. 2:06:57.000 --> 2:07:01.440 From February twenty seventh, flat mate saw my Bible and 2:07:01.480 --> 2:07:03.520 said that book is a fairy tale. So I threw 2:07:03.600 --> 2:07:05.920 my empty mug at his head, broke on the wall 2:07:05.960 --> 2:07:08.480 behind him. This isn't the first instance. And after a 2:07:08.480 --> 2:07:10.360 while you have to stop playing nis and to fend 2:07:10.400 --> 2:07:10.840 your faith. 2:07:12.160 --> 2:07:12.400 Yeah. 2:07:13.560 --> 2:07:15.320 Great, this tweet that I remember seeing. 2:07:15.520 --> 2:07:18.440 Yeah, that was a great one. Now people used to 2:07:18.480 --> 2:07:20.240 send me his shit so often. 2:07:20.800 --> 2:07:24.960 He's infuriating. Yeah, there's a worse one. The most infuriating 2:07:25.000 --> 2:07:26.800 tweet I found from this guy came a bit further 2:07:26.920 --> 2:07:29.840 down and it's it's a picture of him. I thinking 2:07:30.320 --> 2:07:33.400 it might be Dubai. I think it's Dubai. So he's 2:07:33.400 --> 2:07:36.520 like got his back to the skyline and he's just 2:07:36.600 --> 2:07:40.400 kind of like looking off into the distance pensively, and 2:07:40.440 --> 2:07:42.760 it says, friends say, I space out all the time. 2:07:43.120 --> 2:07:47.160 My mind is having visions of North Sentinel Island. Now, 2:07:47.320 --> 2:07:51.120 if you don't remember, Sentinel Island is the Forbidden Island 2:07:51.120 --> 2:07:54.040 and the Andamans which is part of India where in 2:07:54.080 --> 2:07:58.840 twenty eighteen, an idiot Christian missionary broke quarantine and endangered 2:07:58.840 --> 2:08:01.560 the lives of an entire so he could satisfy his 2:08:01.720 --> 2:08:05.680 narcissistic evangelical fetish. He was thankfully shot to death by 2:08:05.680 --> 2:08:08.200 them via arrow before he could get too close, and 2:08:08.240 --> 2:08:12.360 hopefully did not spread any diseases to them. I wish 2:08:12.440 --> 2:08:15.840 mild success in reaching the island and meeting his similar fate, 2:08:16.240 --> 2:08:18.160 But if he gets anywhere close to them, there's just 2:08:18.200 --> 2:08:20.440 such a high chance that he will spread deadly disease 2:08:20.520 --> 2:08:23.200 to the people there that I hope the Indian government 2:08:23.320 --> 2:08:25.560 keeps him away, even though it would be very funny 2:08:25.560 --> 2:08:28.800 if he got shot to death by that would be 2:08:29.480 --> 2:08:30.160 quite a laugh. 2:08:30.760 --> 2:08:33.960 Yeah, truly living out the dreams of being a British lord. 2:08:34.440 --> 2:08:39.960 Yeah yeah, continue a real time on our tradition getting 2:08:40.000 --> 2:08:44.840 fucking murked by the natives on an island. So the 2:08:44.880 --> 2:08:47.920 good news is that friends of the pod, the Taliban 2:08:48.040 --> 2:08:50.680 may have taken care of you know, this guy for us. 2:08:50.960 --> 2:08:54.280 Shortly after making those posts, he re entered Afghanistan and 2:08:54.320 --> 2:08:57.600 a video posted several days later he bragged about entering. 2:08:57.680 --> 2:09:00.600 While he's in Afghanistan, he brags that he made a 2:09:00.640 --> 2:09:03.680 fake visa in order to get himself into the country. 2:09:04.000 --> 2:09:07.160 So he breaks Taliban law entering the country in a 2:09:07.200 --> 2:09:10.440 fake video and then posts a video while he's in 2:09:10.560 --> 2:09:17.040 Kabul bragging about it. So, first off, genius brain, unbelievable 2:09:18.000 --> 2:09:21.600 smarts there. So this the first video that he posts 2:09:21.640 --> 2:09:24.840 back is it's titled something like Shooting Guns with the Taliban, 2:09:25.200 --> 2:09:27.640 and it's all about him just like going to Jalalabad 2:09:27.720 --> 2:09:30.280 to see what kind of guns are available. He talks 2:09:30.320 --> 2:09:32.520 a lot about how all these US guns and gear 2:09:32.640 --> 2:09:35.160 are available, but he doesn't actually really show any of it. 2:09:35.560 --> 2:09:38.160 Like most of the video, he's in like this fucking 2:09:38.560 --> 2:09:40.520 I'll show you he's in like this fucking gun bazaar 2:09:40.720 --> 2:09:44.760 and he's like really awed by this giant ar style 2:09:44.880 --> 2:09:48.840 Turkish shotgun, which we've seen some of them. We have 2:09:48.920 --> 2:09:52.160 seen some of those, James. They're terrible weapons. They are 2:09:52.200 --> 2:09:55.360 definitely obviously the Taliban got a hold of a shitload 2:09:55.360 --> 2:09:58.960 of US gear. Nobody's questioning that these shitty Turkish shotguns 2:09:59.000 --> 2:10:00.360 are not American weapon. 2:10:00.440 --> 2:10:03.640 Yeah, well that that's that's probably why it's in the 2:10:03.680 --> 2:10:08.000 bizarre and not like in someone's like or something. 2:10:08.080 --> 2:10:09.320 Yeah. 2:10:09.400 --> 2:10:12.400 Yeah, the Taliban have access to a lot of American gear. 2:10:12.760 --> 2:10:15.400 He is kind of just like looking at i don't know, 2:10:15.680 --> 2:10:19.000 like a mix of like old Soviet weapons and like 2:10:19.960 --> 2:10:22.920 trash guns. So I'm gonna show you a first clip 2:10:22.960 --> 2:10:23.680 from this video. 2:10:23.720 --> 2:10:27.160 Here is sometimes a little bit dangerous, so there's a 2:10:27.160 --> 2:10:29.080 lot of diesta. If you don't know who diesh is 2:10:29.120 --> 2:10:30.720 it's basically isis. 2:10:32.320 --> 2:10:33.200 Now isis? 2:10:33.280 --> 2:10:35.960 You know, I'll number be Taliban. However, the weapons market 2:10:36.000 --> 2:10:37.680 and maybe in some areas would be quite bad at 2:10:37.680 --> 2:10:39.200 for me, so I'll have to be a little bit careful. 2:10:39.200 --> 2:10:41.440 But if you've seen this footage ended up, Okay, I'm 2:10:41.480 --> 2:10:43.160 gonna take a moment to tell you, guys about my 2:10:43.200 --> 2:10:44.320 sponsor tend. 2:10:44.720 --> 2:10:47.640 What the fuck. 2:10:50.520 --> 2:10:52.240 This is not official medium, but. 2:10:53.880 --> 2:10:55.360 Gesus, that. 2:10:57.080 --> 2:10:59.440 Is one of the most jarring address. 2:10:59.720 --> 2:11:01.800 Like if you're not watching this, he's like standing in 2:11:01.800 --> 2:11:04.840 the desert and like talking. There's that brief clip of 2:11:04.880 --> 2:11:07.040 like a picture of some isis guys, but then he's 2:11:07.040 --> 2:11:09.520 like back in the desert talking and then suddenly a 2:11:09.560 --> 2:11:12.960 shot like it cuts very harshly to him in his 2:11:13.040 --> 2:11:16.520 hotel room doing like a fucking ad for an investment 2:11:16.560 --> 2:11:21.320 banking app. It's so fucking or like a stock trading app. 2:11:21.400 --> 2:11:22.400 It's so funny. 2:11:22.960 --> 2:11:28.360 And then yes, yeah, don't see uh have you got 2:11:28.400 --> 2:11:31.400 the shahata written on it? Yeah? 2:11:31.480 --> 2:11:32.480 Yeah, yeah, it sure does. 2:11:33.600 --> 2:11:39.920 Oh yeah, I was gonna say people she was this, 2:11:39.960 --> 2:11:44.480 but to spare yourself, like god, yeah, he's he's wearing 2:11:44.520 --> 2:11:45.600 his white headband. 2:11:45.640 --> 2:11:47.960 Who's I can't see it anymore, but you can see 2:11:48.080 --> 2:11:49.520 something you're in and Arabic on it, I guess, and 2:11:50.360 --> 2:11:52.320 doing it as much for something called ten. 2:11:52.240 --> 2:11:55.320 D's yeah, something which is like yeah, some sort of 2:11:55.360 --> 2:11:58.800 like stock trading app for I'm going to guess people 2:11:58.840 --> 2:12:01.560 to get their life saving scammed from them. Yeah, yeah, 2:12:02.400 --> 2:12:06.280 that's my apologies tendis if I'm getting you wrong, but 2:12:07.320 --> 2:12:08.640 you're spider. 2:12:11.080 --> 2:12:13.360 Yeah, ah damn. 2:12:13.560 --> 2:12:17.440 It's okay. We've got enough sports betting companies to that. Well, 2:12:17.520 --> 2:12:21.320 we'll be okay. Run regular us, right, yeah, run Reagan 2:12:21.920 --> 2:12:24.560 gold coins or silver coins will take care of us. 2:12:25.000 --> 2:12:27.800 So again, one of the things that's very funny about 2:12:27.800 --> 2:12:30.000 this is the amount of time he spends flipping out 2:12:30.040 --> 2:12:33.160 over this dog shit AR style shotgun. For those of 2:12:33.160 --> 2:12:36.120 you who aren't gun people, the Turks make a number 2:12:36.120 --> 2:12:39.120 of different shotguns that kind of look like AR fifteen's. 2:12:39.520 --> 2:12:41.840 They're all very impressive looking to people who don't know 2:12:41.840 --> 2:12:44.560 anything about guns. They're terrible weapons. One of the reasons 2:12:44.560 --> 2:12:47.640 they're terrible is that shotgun shells do not work well 2:12:47.680 --> 2:12:51.960 in magazines. The reason most shotguns are tube fed because like, 2:12:52.160 --> 2:12:54.400 shot shells are plastic and they have a weird shape 2:12:54.440 --> 2:12:56.200 to them, and if you stick them in a magazine 2:12:56.280 --> 2:12:58.680 like a normal bullet, they just tend to like jam 2:12:58.760 --> 2:13:01.120 and misfeed a lot. It's just we're not a good 2:13:01.200 --> 2:13:02.640 way for it. Yeah, exactly. 2:13:04.400 --> 2:13:07.839 Yeah, it's the one gun, the one actually like produced 2:13:07.840 --> 2:13:10.360 in a factory gun that I'm aware of that the 2:13:10.360 --> 2:13:12.000 folks in ME and R are like, now, fuck it. 2:13:12.000 --> 2:13:17.840 Will just three, like we are desperate, but these are 2:13:17.960 --> 2:13:20.320 just and he like he spends a lot of time 2:13:20.400 --> 2:13:22.400 like talking about how cheap guns are. You can get 2:13:22.440 --> 2:13:25.040 guns here cheaper than you can anywhere else, because like 2:13:25.080 --> 2:13:27.200 this ar shotgun is two hundred bucks, Like, man, I 2:13:27.200 --> 2:13:30.080 can get an ar shotgun for two hundred bucks in Portland, Oregon. 2:13:30.280 --> 2:13:36.880 They're terrible, nobody wants them. So he does eventually go 2:13:37.040 --> 2:13:39.720 out with what he claims is the Taliban. As far 2:13:39.760 --> 2:13:41.720 as I can tell, it's a guy who has an 2:13:41.840 --> 2:13:45.320 M sixteen that he probably paid like a hundred bucks 2:13:45.360 --> 2:13:48.440 to go shooting with. Right, maybe the guy, like a 2:13:48.440 --> 2:13:52.560 lot of people in Afghanistan are technically the Taliban, but 2:13:53.000 --> 2:13:56.080 that doesn't mean like much, right, Like at this point, 2:13:56.160 --> 2:13:59.080 they're the government, like you know, you get like your uncle, 2:13:59.320 --> 2:14:01.680 you know, gets you a fucking gig or something watching 2:14:01.720 --> 2:14:03.320 a road or whatever. I don't know. I don't know 2:14:03.320 --> 2:14:06.680 anything about this guy. He claims he's the Taliban. So 2:14:06.720 --> 2:14:08.760 I'm gonna play you a clip of him shooting this 2:14:08.880 --> 2:14:10.360 guy's sixteen. 2:14:12.440 --> 2:14:17.440 Oh yeah, another one. 2:14:17.520 --> 2:14:20.160 No hearing protection sweeping people. 2:14:22.880 --> 2:14:24.560 Just sweeps him again, the. 2:14:28.160 --> 2:14:34.240 Move, thank you. 2:14:34.960 --> 2:14:39.080 The Taliban guy is visibly nervous about him using the gun. 2:14:41.760 --> 2:14:43.240 He's mad he got that vacuum one. 2:14:43.560 --> 2:14:51.520 Yeah, he's backing away. 2:14:53.120 --> 2:14:53.800 He's just like. 2:14:55.280 --> 2:15:01.120 Shooting into the air. I love how like visibly nervous. 2:15:01.160 --> 2:15:06.520 The Taliban guy is his legs with the gun, like 2:15:06.640 --> 2:15:09.560 points the barrel at that guy's legs like three different times, 2:15:10.440 --> 2:15:13.839 shoots up into the air. He's just an incompetent asshole 2:15:13.880 --> 2:15:14.200 with it. 2:15:14.600 --> 2:15:17.760 He's doing all of these like like eighties action movie poses. 2:15:18.040 --> 2:15:23.920 Yeah, touch, It's It's very stupid. He has no hearing 2:15:23.960 --> 2:15:27.120 protection and so he like hurts his ears like yeah, 2:15:27.600 --> 2:15:33.200 it's it's It's just comprehensively stupid and sad. So this 2:15:33.360 --> 2:15:36.040 video was dumb. Shortly after filming it, Miles met up 2:15:36.040 --> 2:15:38.400 with two other UK citizens who were in the country, 2:15:38.440 --> 2:15:40.960 one of whom was he's described in most of the 2:15:41.000 --> 2:15:43.120 news articles I read it is just a charity medic 2:15:43.600 --> 2:15:46.800 and it's this is all a little unclear. It seems 2:15:46.840 --> 2:15:49.880 like this guy was in possession of a firearm without 2:15:49.920 --> 2:15:53.240 a proper permit. He claims that he has a permit, 2:15:53.320 --> 2:15:56.280 but that was lost or something whatever. At any rate, 2:15:56.600 --> 2:15:59.840 Miles goes missing in early March, and after several days 2:15:59.840 --> 2:16:02.440 that Taliban announces that they've taken him and these two 2:16:02.440 --> 2:16:06.360 other British guys and also two Polish guys into custody. 2:16:06.680 --> 2:16:09.440 And it's a little unclear why, but it seems to 2:16:09.480 --> 2:16:12.200 be due to like them breaking some laws with guns. 2:16:12.520 --> 2:16:14.040 It also may have something to do with the fact 2:16:14.040 --> 2:16:18.720 that Miles broke the law entering the country. He seems 2:16:18.760 --> 2:16:21.600 to be being treated reasonably well at present, it's unclear 2:16:21.680 --> 2:16:25.440 what's going to happen to him. I hope, I mean honestly, like, 2:16:25.720 --> 2:16:27.320 of all the people who deserve to be in a 2:16:27.360 --> 2:16:33.920 Taliban prison, Miles Rutledge is the one that's amazing, Like yeah, 2:16:34.040 --> 2:16:36.480 keep that go ahead and keep that guy Taliban, like. 2:16:39.320 --> 2:16:42.680 Solid very excited for whoever is in the Prime Minister's 2:16:42.720 --> 2:16:46.600 chair next week to like maybe get around to start. 2:16:46.360 --> 2:16:52.480 Negotiating with the Taliban. They don't the British, the British 2:16:52.520 --> 2:16:54.760 Far and Office just don't give a fuck anymore. Like 2:16:54.840 --> 2:16:57.600 I've had to contact them with when colleagues have been detained, 2:16:57.640 --> 2:17:00.959 et cetera, and like they'll literally be a now computer 2:17:01.040 --> 2:17:04.119 says no and just like tight fuck off. 2:17:04.320 --> 2:17:06.039 Like so hopefully they do the same for him. 2:17:06.680 --> 2:17:09.040 Yeah, it doesn't. I haven't seen anything like the late 2:17:09.160 --> 2:17:11.640 most recent news stories about him were like more than 2:17:11.640 --> 2:17:15.000 a week ago. It looks like, uh, yeah, I'm not 2:17:15.040 --> 2:17:18.279 saying anything recently, so it doesn't look like I'm guessing 2:17:18.280 --> 2:17:20.320 we would have there'd be some coverage if he'd been freed. 2:17:21.920 --> 2:17:26.560 The Daily Mail talked to his mom, who apparently was like, yeah, 2:17:26.600 --> 2:17:31.520 he was. He was there to try to find himself. Yeah, 2:17:31.560 --> 2:17:36.199 it's very funny, he says. He claims at one point, 2:17:36.280 --> 2:17:38.840 like yo, guy has been taken by the by Afghan 2:17:38.879 --> 2:17:41.439 intelligence for taking like a thousand dollars out of Western 2:17:41.520 --> 2:17:44.879 Union suss amount, no internet, no idea when this will end. 2:17:44.920 --> 2:17:47.720 Everything is good, but please excuse my lack of communication. 2:17:49.360 --> 2:17:53.120 That was like March eighth, something like that. And he 2:17:53.160 --> 2:17:56.200 hasn't really been back on in a while, Like he's 2:17:56.280 --> 2:17:59.200 kind of been dark for quite a spell, So I 2:17:59.200 --> 2:18:01.800 don't know. Maybe something terrible has happened to him or 2:18:01.800 --> 2:18:04.280 what's happened to him at which point or in which 2:18:04.320 --> 2:18:09.560 case like that would be kind of funny fuck him. Yeah, 2:18:09.600 --> 2:18:12.760 that's where I am officially. Yeah, I mean he fucked 2:18:12.760 --> 2:18:16.120 around and found out. Yeah, like you keep again man, 2:18:16.160 --> 2:18:19.200 you want to like, yeah, you keep fucking around. You 2:18:19.280 --> 2:18:22.200 like go to a place with like a famously like 2:18:22.640 --> 2:18:28.160 dangerous authoritarian government who are actively hurting people and are like, 2:18:28.240 --> 2:18:30.400 I'm going to brag about breaking the law for a 2:18:30.480 --> 2:18:33.920 YouTube video. Yeah, man, maybe they'll get pissed. It's like 2:18:33.959 --> 2:18:37.360 the same shit with like, obviously the Romanian government is 2:18:37.400 --> 2:18:39.160 not the Taliban, but like it's the same kind of 2:18:39.160 --> 2:18:41.440 shit with like Andrew Tate, where you're like, I'm gonna 2:18:41.600 --> 2:18:43.920 go to this other country and brag about the fact 2:18:43.959 --> 2:18:46.879 that they're not stopping me from breaking their laws. That's 2:18:46.920 --> 2:18:50.680 a pretty good way to get them to fucking problems 2:18:50.720 --> 2:18:51.600 for you. 2:18:51.680 --> 2:18:56.840 Like, anyway, my favorite Miles post, if I'm remembering this right, 2:18:56.920 --> 2:19:01.879 I'm pretty sure like two weeks before he like got arrested. 2:19:02.680 --> 2:19:05.640 He he he posted a tweet about how like he's 2:19:05.680 --> 2:19:09.279 safer in he's safer in Afghanistan and he is in US. 2:19:09.120 --> 2:19:13.959 That he would be in San Francisco, in na in Brooklyn. Yeah, 2:19:15.280 --> 2:19:19.840 he spent no two days, he spent forty eight hours 2:19:19.920 --> 2:19:27.080 quote unquote homeless in Brooklyn for again for content, And yeah, 2:19:27.120 --> 2:19:29.879 it is it is funny that like he is in 2:19:30.040 --> 2:19:30.800 a lot of trouble. 2:19:30.840 --> 2:19:36.480 Now he tried to go to Mission Texas as well. 2:19:36.520 --> 2:19:38.120 I don't know if he ever went, but he was 2:19:38.120 --> 2:19:40.120 going to do so I missed that. Yeah, he was 2:19:40.120 --> 2:19:43.160 gonna do something fucking horrific with people crossing the Rio Grande. 2:19:43.760 --> 2:19:51.520 Oh god, oh see the look. You're not gonna hear 2:19:51.600 --> 2:19:54.959 this often from me, but critical support to the Taliban, 2:19:55.280 --> 2:19:58.480 like they're they're they're really fighting the good fight for 2:19:58.520 --> 2:19:59.000 all of us. 2:19:59.040 --> 2:20:03.959 By caving this guy behind bars, I was it initially 2:20:04.000 --> 2:20:06.240 seemed like he had he had fallen into the hands 2:20:06.280 --> 2:20:10.039 of like the Islamic State Chorussan Province, and yeah, I'm 2:20:10.120 --> 2:20:12.280 gonna have to Yeah, you. 2:20:12.440 --> 2:20:14.320 Rarely have to hand it to Islamic State, but we 2:20:14.840 --> 2:20:16.599 may have had that one occasion. 2:20:16.360 --> 2:20:18.600 That don't give ices a lot of credit, but that 2:20:19.959 --> 2:20:22.400 it is, like you know what, I'll just I'm gonna 2:20:22.400 --> 2:20:24.040 go ahead and say this on behalf of the rest 2:20:24.040 --> 2:20:26.800 of the world, Taliban, if you keep him locked up, 2:20:27.080 --> 2:20:30.199 you know, we will erase one of those big Buddha 2:20:30.280 --> 2:20:33.240 statues from like the list of Taliban crimes. We'll all 2:20:33.280 --> 2:20:35.480 agree to forget one of the Buddhas. Like, hold, I 2:20:35.920 --> 2:20:39.880 feel like I'm not signing on to this. I'm so 2:20:40.080 --> 2:20:46.080 bad about the Buddhas. I just come on, we need 2:20:46.120 --> 2:20:52.480 all the Buddhas. Anyway, Fuck this guy. 2:20:53.080 --> 2:20:53.400 Yea. 2:20:55.080 --> 2:20:56.840 Side, I hope they're feeding him tofu. 2:20:57.360 --> 2:20:59.600 Yeah, I hope they're feeding him all of the soy 2:20:59.600 --> 2:21:03.080 and after anastea like fucking park a soy truck up 2:21:03.080 --> 2:21:07.760 to that guy's cell. Anyway, that's a story, Like there's 2:21:07.800 --> 2:21:11.800 these guys are like, especially in the social media. I mean, 2:21:11.800 --> 2:21:14.240 they've always been a part of war and of conflict. 2:21:15.520 --> 2:21:17.760 You know, there's a degree to which like this is 2:21:18.040 --> 2:21:20.680 a not a news story like this is actually kind 2:21:20.720 --> 2:21:23.520 of a one of the older stories in human history. 2:21:23.600 --> 2:21:27.320 Is like dudes kind of stumbling into war zones in 2:21:27.480 --> 2:21:31.000 order to write about it or otherwise like make it 2:21:31.080 --> 2:21:38.520 about them. So, you know, uh, fuck these people and 2:21:38.640 --> 2:21:43.560 fuck Miles Rutledge in specific. I hope we I hope 2:21:43.560 --> 2:21:46.480 he winds up like those Venezuelan merks or not there. 2:21:46.480 --> 2:21:47.000 I mean they weren't. 2:21:47.560 --> 2:21:50.360 They were in Venezuela who are caught on video pissing 2:21:50.360 --> 2:21:54.320 themselves and then lying in the piss. That's that's my 2:21:54.440 --> 2:21:58.080 dream for Miles Rutledge spending some time lying in piss 2:21:58.160 --> 2:22:02.959 before he's sent back to the UK. Yeah, that's what 2:22:03.040 --> 2:22:03.360 I got. 2:22:04.040 --> 2:22:07.480 Nice. Hopefully they revoke his fucking citizenship like that they 2:22:07.520 --> 2:22:10.480 did to the British. 2:22:10.520 --> 2:22:13.360 He did make a bunch of posts about how cool 2:22:13.400 --> 2:22:17.360 the Taliban were, So I don't know, like, yeah, we 2:22:17.400 --> 2:22:20.640 can drink. Look, man, you said you wanted to live there. Uh, 2:22:21.400 --> 2:22:25.760 here you go. Yeah, I don't know. I think he's 2:22:25.800 --> 2:22:28.280 a dick, and I think this is funny. That's my 2:22:28.400 --> 2:22:29.199 official stance. 2:22:45.160 --> 2:22:46.000 Happy Earth Day. 2:22:46.040 --> 2:22:47.800 And by Happy Earth's Day, I mean the Earth is 2:22:47.879 --> 2:22:52.560 dying and people are killing it. Yeah, welcome, welcome. Did 2:22:52.600 --> 2:22:55.199 it happened here the Earth Day episode? 2:22:55.840 --> 2:22:56.080 Now? 2:22:56.200 --> 2:22:59.320 Now, now, quick question me? What is Earth? 2:23:00.800 --> 2:23:03.920 So? The Earth is one of many, many, many planets 2:23:03.920 --> 2:23:08.520 in the universe. It was, it's cagealed rock. There's some 2:23:08.720 --> 2:23:12.280 like melty shit in the middle of it, but on 2:23:12.280 --> 2:23:14.000 the outside, there's a part of it that's nice to 2:23:14.040 --> 2:23:18.039 live on, and it'd be nice to continue to have. 2:23:18.160 --> 2:23:18.680 It be that. 2:23:19.840 --> 2:23:20.200 Ah. 2:23:20.240 --> 2:23:22.720 Okay, this is different than what I had been raised 2:23:22.760 --> 2:23:26.280 to believe. But I'll humor you here. Please continue. 2:23:27.200 --> 2:23:29.080 Yes, And so okay, we are we going to be 2:23:29.080 --> 2:23:34.199 talking today about one of the many attempts to destroy 2:23:34.240 --> 2:23:36.680 the Earth and also Garrison this year too. 2:23:36.680 --> 2:23:41.320 Hello, yes hi, I'm here also for the Earth for 2:23:41.360 --> 2:23:41.760 the Earth. 2:23:41.840 --> 2:23:46.439 Yeah yeah, and this is a special episode featuring a bombing. 2:23:47.000 --> 2:23:49.120 So it is ah, I love a good bombing. 2:23:49.320 --> 2:23:52.280 Yeah, this is very exciting. Actually, tally speaking, it's two bombs. 2:23:53.680 --> 2:23:57.480 So it is near midnight on July tenth, nineteen eighty five. 2:23:57.640 --> 2:24:00.200 The crew of the Green Peace boat Rainbow Warrior Year, 2:24:00.240 --> 2:24:02.320 which is docked in the harbor of Auckland, which is 2:24:02.320 --> 2:24:04.880 New Zealand's largest city. A thing that I learned rob 2:24:04.879 --> 2:24:06.040 researching this episode. 2:24:06.160 --> 2:24:09.120 Wait, really, that's New Zealand's largest city. Yeah, yeah, there's not. 2:24:09.240 --> 2:24:12.000 There's not a lot in New Zealand other than Hobbits 2:24:12.120 --> 2:24:14.119 and that one show about vampires. 2:24:15.200 --> 2:24:17.280 A lot of cheese too that they make, make make 2:24:17.320 --> 2:24:18.600 a lot of make a lot of milk. 2:24:19.640 --> 2:24:20.160 So they did. 2:24:20.280 --> 2:24:22.959 Yeah, the greepiest boat is. It is docked in this harbor. 2:24:23.120 --> 2:24:24.600 Most of the crew is asleep or some of them 2:24:24.600 --> 2:24:26.880 are playing cards, and they are they are relaxing after 2:24:26.920 --> 2:24:28.320 having celebrated the birthday. 2:24:28.080 --> 2:24:28.840 Of one of their crews. 2:24:29.560 --> 2:24:32.560 Suddenly a massive shock rips through the boat. Water starts 2:24:32.600 --> 2:24:35.039 flooding into the ship. Lights go out, and the crew 2:24:35.040 --> 2:24:37.240 thinks they've been hit by a tug boat by accident. 2:24:39.040 --> 2:24:42.800 That lasts a couple of minutes until a second explosion 2:24:42.840 --> 2:24:43.520 hits the boat. 2:24:44.080 --> 2:24:47.000 Mister President, a second explosion has hit the boat. 2:24:47.280 --> 2:24:47.840 Nine to eleven. 2:24:47.920 --> 2:24:50.760 Joke, Yes, very excellent, good work. 2:24:51.640 --> 2:24:53.920 So the crew the light like the people fleeing nine 2:24:53.920 --> 2:24:55.920 to eleven. The crew flees the boat, but they realize 2:24:55.959 --> 2:24:59.000 that their photographer, a guy named Fernando Perieira, is missing. 2:24:59.200 --> 2:25:02.680 Peri Era like it hasn't quite realized that the boat 2:25:02.720 --> 2:25:05.480 is like under attack, and so he runs back to 2:25:05.520 --> 2:25:07.720 his cabin to grab his camera, and then the second 2:25:07.720 --> 2:25:09.560 explosion hits in the boat sinks so fast that he 2:25:09.600 --> 2:25:11.160 never has a chance to get back up. 2:25:12.320 --> 2:25:14.000 And he drowns to death. 2:25:14.959 --> 2:25:17.039 And the crew very quickly realizes that this is not 2:25:17.120 --> 2:25:21.240 an accident, and rescue divers discovered there are massive there's 2:25:21.320 --> 2:25:23.400 like massive holes in the ship from where I've been 2:25:23.400 --> 2:25:27.560 blown up from the outside, and they eventually determined that 2:25:27.680 --> 2:25:30.440 this boat, which is again a green piece boat that 2:25:30.520 --> 2:25:32.800 is doing non violence of with disobedience, has been sunk 2:25:32.840 --> 2:25:33.920 by limpet mines. 2:25:34.800 --> 2:25:37.879 Oh boy, oh, I love a good limp at mine. 2:25:38.120 --> 2:25:40.400 I'm so happy that we're we're getting limpet mines in 2:25:40.440 --> 2:25:40.960 this episode. 2:25:41.000 --> 2:25:42.720 Yeah, yea, we're getting we're getting limp at mines. We're 2:25:42.720 --> 2:25:45.160 getting there'll be some special Forces boats later or I 2:25:45.160 --> 2:25:49.279 say boats is one boat, but yeah, we're gonna we're 2:25:49.320 --> 2:25:53.560 going through all of the sort of naval combat bits here. Excellent, 2:25:53.840 --> 2:25:56.160 But this raises the question who would commit such an 2:25:56.200 --> 2:25:59.280 act of terrorism on the I can't actually say on 2:25:59.320 --> 2:26:01.080 the soil of news Land because it's technically in the 2:26:01.120 --> 2:26:02.200 water of New Zealand. 2:26:03.360 --> 2:26:04.640 In the waters of New Zealand. 2:26:04.720 --> 2:26:07.720 Yeah, yeah, yeah, off the coast of New Zealand. Sure, yeah, 2:26:07.760 --> 2:26:08.240 we get it. 2:26:08.640 --> 2:26:11.000 Yeah, But okay, So to answer this question, we need 2:26:11.040 --> 2:26:14.360 to talk about the anti nuclear movements. And you know, 2:26:14.760 --> 2:26:17.800 there's been a kind of rewriting of history about what 2:26:18.120 --> 2:26:21.880 the anti nuclear movement was actually about to basically like 2:26:21.920 --> 2:26:24.120 sort of purely focused on the anti nuclear movement as 2:26:24.120 --> 2:26:25.480 something it's just about nuclear. 2:26:25.160 --> 2:26:26.560 Power, but that was never true. 2:26:26.760 --> 2:26:29.480 The movement was always way more larger than that, and 2:26:29.520 --> 2:26:32.000 a huge part of it was about opposing nuclear weapons, 2:26:32.040 --> 2:26:35.240 both in terms of like opposing nuclear tests and in 2:26:35.320 --> 2:26:37.560 terms of fighting for nuclear disarmament. On the fairly simple 2:26:37.600 --> 2:26:40.480 principle that having weapons that can kill everyone on Earth 2:26:40.520 --> 2:26:41.800 around is a bad idea. 2:26:43.800 --> 2:26:46.080 Well, I mean the bad idea if you don't want 2:26:46.120 --> 2:26:48.640 to destroy the entire earth. But yeah, that's true. 2:26:48.760 --> 2:26:50.720 Yeah, if you want to destroy the Earth, that's a 2:26:50.720 --> 2:26:51.600 pretty good idea. 2:26:51.720 --> 2:26:54.560 Actually, unfortunately, I'm on a living kick right now, so 2:26:54.680 --> 2:26:57.080 I'm not anti destroying everything on Earth. 2:26:57.840 --> 2:26:58.120 Yeah. 2:26:58.400 --> 2:27:00.960 It's good that you can admit your bio upfront though, 2:27:01.000 --> 2:27:01.400 that's yeah. 2:27:01.560 --> 2:27:05.560 Yeah, this is a very important thing in journalism. Yeah, 2:27:05.640 --> 2:27:07.760 so you know, Okay, so when we were talking a 2:27:07.760 --> 2:27:10.080 bit about nuclear testing, because it doesn't it doesn't happen 2:27:10.120 --> 2:27:13.800 anymore nuclear testing. Okay, so we used to just like 2:27:14.040 --> 2:27:17.039 detonate nuclear bombs like in the. 2:27:17.040 --> 2:27:19.440 Addamn right, you're goddamn right, we did. 2:27:20.120 --> 2:27:22.879 Yeah, And it turns out this this kills enormous numbers 2:27:22.879 --> 2:27:25.160 of people. But the problem is that it kills them 2:27:25.240 --> 2:27:28.160 very slowly with increased cancer rates, which is very difficult 2:27:28.160 --> 2:27:31.879 to sort of track or like prove direct causality. And 2:27:31.920 --> 2:27:34.120 you know, this is aided by the fact that when 2:27:34.120 --> 2:27:38.160 countries are nuclear testing, they are almost always killing people. 2:27:38.200 --> 2:27:41.080 Well they're almost always dropping this the nukes on indigenous land, 2:27:41.360 --> 2:27:43.560 which means that they're killing people who are the government 2:27:43.600 --> 2:27:45.440 and most of the countries just like does not care 2:27:45.480 --> 2:27:49.360 about and you know, you can you can literally map 2:27:49.400 --> 2:27:53.240 colonialism and sort of the value that a given like 2:27:53.240 --> 2:27:55.360 a given state placed on people's lives by you know, 2:27:55.400 --> 2:27:57.560 where they test the nuclear weapons. So, for example, the 2:27:57.680 --> 2:28:00.400 US tests the nuclear bombs in places like the Bikinia Toll, 2:28:01.240 --> 2:28:03.920 the Marshall Islands, a former tribal land in Nevada, in 2:28:03.920 --> 2:28:06.680 New Mexico, and in Hatesburg, Mississippi. 2:28:07.720 --> 2:28:14.119 Okay, so Jesus Christ, all those are bad except except Mississippi. 2:28:14.240 --> 2:28:18.840 No, that was also bad because guess get guess get 2:28:18.840 --> 2:28:21.199 guess what race the population of Hatesville. 2:28:20.800 --> 2:28:21.640 Mississippi was. 2:28:21.680 --> 2:28:26.039 Okay, all right, yeah, they got paid ten dollars to 2:28:26.080 --> 2:28:28.720 get relocated quote unquote, yeah this is this is this 2:28:28.760 --> 2:28:30.880 is not a white it's not a white city. 2:28:31.200 --> 2:28:33.800 They are blowing up with a nuclear bomp. Not like 2:28:33.879 --> 2:28:36.640 it's not like a gated community for white men in 2:28:36.680 --> 2:28:37.680 their fifties or something. 2:28:37.680 --> 2:28:41.359 No, no, no, The only. 2:28:41.160 --> 2:28:44.040 Good nuclear testing we did was back in the day 2:28:44.040 --> 2:28:46.600 when they used to set off nukes right outside of Vegas, 2:28:46.720 --> 2:28:49.120 and so all of the Vegas people would watch the 2:28:49.200 --> 2:28:52.360 nukes go off and then get irradiated. That was that 2:28:52.560 --> 2:28:53.480 was kind of funny. 2:28:53.640 --> 2:28:56.160 Yeah. They also they also were radiated the area fifty 2:28:56.160 --> 2:28:58.680 one people one time, and that was also extremely funny. 2:28:59.000 --> 2:29:02.440 They shared did and there was that like guy I 2:29:02.440 --> 2:29:04.960 think it was uranium. There was like one of the 2:29:05.040 --> 2:29:07.440 dudes who was on the Manhattan Project. There was this 2:29:07.600 --> 2:29:10.640 like dude who there was like an accident and he 2:29:11.000 --> 2:29:15.119 just sucked down a bunch of nuclear fuel and they 2:29:15.160 --> 2:29:17.039 had to like he could never work in a lab 2:29:17.080 --> 2:29:20.560 again after that, and he every for like decades afterwards. 2:29:20.560 --> 2:29:24.040 His breath tested positive for like radioactivity, but he loved 2:29:24.040 --> 2:29:26.560 to be like eighty something like. It didn't him doesn't 2:29:26.560 --> 2:29:29.320 seem to have heard him. He says it tasted kind 2:29:29.360 --> 2:29:34.199 of like like sour candy. Well, okay, so he's tasted 2:29:34.200 --> 2:29:37.240 there forbidden nuclear water. Yeah, no one else has to. 2:29:37.320 --> 2:29:40.360 Now we know what it tastes like. Yeah, oh yeah, 2:29:40.400 --> 2:29:43.440 Donald Mastic was he was sprayed in the face with 2:29:43.480 --> 2:29:48.760 liquid plutonium chloride and swallowed some. But apparently that's fine. 2:29:48.920 --> 2:29:52.560 So there you go. Everybody drinks some plutonium, you'll live 2:29:52.600 --> 2:29:54.440 a long life. 2:29:55.800 --> 2:29:58.440 So the US, I guess, I guess also tests it 2:29:58.560 --> 2:30:02.039 on their nuclear scientists. But yeah, so that those are 2:30:02.120 --> 2:30:05.680 the US. The USSR testa nukes in Kazakhstan, which there's 2:30:05.680 --> 2:30:07.000 an amazing story about. 2:30:06.800 --> 2:30:08.280 Barria going when there's nobody. 2:30:08.320 --> 2:30:10.160 Nobody lives in this part and nobody lives in Kazakstan, 2:30:10.280 --> 2:30:11.040 so we'll be fine. 2:30:11.560 --> 2:30:14.520 Mm hmm. It's like, okay, Baria people, in fact, you 2:30:14.560 --> 2:30:14.959 live there. 2:30:15.920 --> 2:30:18.520 China tests this nukes in a site called lop Nor, 2:30:18.560 --> 2:30:20.800 which is in shing John because of course it is. 2:30:21.560 --> 2:30:24.560 And the French do their test in the Sahara in 2:30:24.600 --> 2:30:29.120 Algeria until the Algerian revolution forces them out, which good 2:30:29.160 --> 2:30:32.040 for them, death of betrayers, the Algerian Workers councils et cetera, 2:30:32.040 --> 2:30:35.959 et cetera, et cetera. But this means that the French 2:30:36.480 --> 2:30:39.720 now no longer being able to bomb like their conorizsessions 2:30:39.760 --> 2:30:43.920 in Algeria. Yeah, they they they start testing the nuclear 2:30:43.959 --> 2:30:50.359 weapons on particularly the Moreau. 2:30:50.760 --> 2:30:53.000 I don't know how to pronounce this. I'm really sorry. 2:30:53.040 --> 2:30:56.000 What is a toll in the in the south the 2:30:56.000 --> 2:30:56.560 South Pacific? 2:30:57.360 --> 2:30:59.959 Yeah, I mean that sounds close enough. Yeah, sure, yeah, And. 2:31:00.400 --> 2:31:04.320 So they they start these tests like in secret. So 2:31:04.360 --> 2:31:06.959 there are there are people on islands nearby who don't 2:31:07.000 --> 2:31:08.959 know what those nukes going off, like, the don't even 2:31:09.000 --> 2:31:12.320 a bomb shelters. Right, it's really loud these days. 2:31:13.520 --> 2:31:15.840 Anybody notice how loud it's gotten here. 2:31:16.640 --> 2:31:18.440 Yeah, it's like, you know, you could see the fucking 2:31:18.480 --> 2:31:19.400 mushroom cloud. Right. 2:31:19.520 --> 2:31:23.120 But like these people, you know, the French military sciences 2:31:23.200 --> 2:31:24.520 are like, oh, it's fine, they're not going to be 2:31:24.520 --> 2:31:27.440 in the fall out They're unbelievably in the fallout radius. 2:31:27.840 --> 2:31:31.240 If anyone ever tells you you're not in a fallout radius, 2:31:31.360 --> 2:31:33.600 that's your first sign that you are, in fact in 2:31:33.640 --> 2:31:34.800 a fallout radius. 2:31:34.879 --> 2:31:37.120 Yeah, it's never it's never a great it's never a 2:31:37.120 --> 2:31:39.119 great sign. I don't think that's happening. 2:31:39.560 --> 2:31:41.920 I don't think anyone has ever assured a group of 2:31:41.959 --> 2:31:44.640 people that they're not going to be exposed to radiation 2:31:44.760 --> 2:31:45.840 and been telling the truth. 2:31:46.280 --> 2:31:47.160 Here's the thing. Here's the thing. 2:31:47.320 --> 2:31:49.640 If if they had merely gone to these people and 2:31:49.680 --> 2:31:51.440 said you're not going to be exposed to radiation, it 2:31:51.440 --> 2:31:53.760 would have been better, because then then at least it 2:31:53.760 --> 2:31:55.200 would have had a chance. They just didn't tell these 2:31:55.200 --> 2:31:57.280 people at all. They were testing a news sure, they 2:31:57.360 --> 2:32:01.840 just blew it up great, and so they detonate like 2:32:02.000 --> 2:32:02.840 they detonate. 2:32:02.640 --> 2:32:04.480 Nukes all over Polynesia. 2:32:06.040 --> 2:32:09.440 In Actually a few years ago there was a there 2:32:09.480 --> 2:32:12.680 was a thing called the Moreau Files, which was a 2:32:12.680 --> 2:32:14.680 bunch of investigative journalist goot together. They got a bunch 2:32:14.680 --> 2:32:18.240 of classified French military documents. They did, they got some 2:32:18.240 --> 2:32:22.440 scientists together, and they did a whole thing about the 2:32:22.480 --> 2:32:25.080 you know, the sort of influence that the effects of 2:32:25.120 --> 2:32:27.960 this nuclear testing has. And I'm just going to read 2:32:28.000 --> 2:32:31.000 from that quote. According to our calculations, based on a 2:32:31.040 --> 2:32:35.040 scientific reassessment of the doses received, approximately one hundred and 2:32:35.080 --> 2:32:39.640 ten thousand people were infected, almost the entire Polynesian population 2:32:39.760 --> 2:32:40.240 at the time. 2:32:41.240 --> 2:32:43.760 Good god, So they radiated. 2:32:43.360 --> 2:32:47.360 Like the entire population of Polynesia. This is this is great. 2:32:48.360 --> 2:32:52.480 So I mean that's not ideal. That's not ideal. I'll 2:32:52.480 --> 2:32:53.000 give them that. 2:32:53.320 --> 2:32:58.520 And Okay, so I obviously nuclear testing has negative effects 2:32:58.560 --> 2:33:01.199 on humans. I feel like I don't need to explain 2:33:01.400 --> 2:33:04.400 how nuclear testing has Dropping a nuclear bomb on a 2:33:04.440 --> 2:33:07.959 place has a negative effect on the environment, that seems sure, 2:33:08.040 --> 2:33:08.560 Are you sure? 2:33:09.840 --> 2:33:12.720 Pretty obvious? I think we're all more or less caught 2:33:12.800 --> 2:33:16.720 up on nuking things being bad for them, except well, 2:33:17.120 --> 2:33:21.800 except for underwater aquatic lizards, which seem to do really 2:33:21.840 --> 2:33:23.560 well when exposed to nuclear tests. 2:33:24.160 --> 2:33:27.840 Yeah, they look, they can. They have atomic breath. Now 2:33:28.120 --> 2:33:30.560 they've got absolutely yeah, big big. 2:33:31.440 --> 2:33:34.840 They get to star in a movie with a surprising 2:33:34.959 --> 2:33:38.680 number of members of the cast of Simpsons. Yeah, it's 2:33:38.840 --> 2:33:42.080 it's all. It's all upsides. Oh and that Ferris Bueller 2:33:42.120 --> 2:33:46.080 I think was in it. So that's pretty good. Yeah. 2:33:46.120 --> 2:33:48.039 Did these people get to star in a movie with 2:33:48.080 --> 2:33:48.840 Ferris Bueller. 2:33:49.720 --> 2:33:50.959 No, they died of. 2:33:54.680 --> 2:33:57.160 Yeah, that's unfortunate. That's unfortunate. 2:33:57.560 --> 2:33:57.760 Yeah. 2:33:57.800 --> 2:34:00.360 And so these tests and some other tests the US 2:34:00.440 --> 2:34:02.760 are doing, the Marshall Islands or the Origin of Green piece. 2:34:03.680 --> 2:34:06.640 So there have been environmental groups like the Sierra Club 2:34:06.760 --> 2:34:11.160 have been involved in anty nuclear activism because again, bad, 2:34:11.240 --> 2:34:15.680 bad for the environment, dropping dukes. But okay, so the 2:34:15.720 --> 2:34:18.320 activism that the Sierra Club people are doing is based 2:34:18.360 --> 2:34:23.320 on bearing witness, and the green Peace people rightly are like, 2:34:23.520 --> 2:34:26.760 fuck bury witness. They are dropping nuclear bombs. We are 2:34:26.800 --> 2:34:28.519 going to try to stop these bastards. 2:34:29.160 --> 2:34:31.160 The way you can beat a bad guy with the 2:34:31.240 --> 2:34:33.920 nuclear bomb is a good guy with the nuclear bomb. 2:34:37.040 --> 2:34:41.320 I'm introducing a new initiative to arm all green Peace members. Okay, 2:34:41.360 --> 2:34:45.320 the personal, personal tactical nuke, David Crocket. 2:34:46.120 --> 2:34:49.160 This is this is I am not kidding France's rationale 2:34:49.200 --> 2:34:51.800 for why they have nukes, which is that the thing 2:34:51.879 --> 2:34:56.120 is literally called like this, like the weak deterring the 2:34:56.200 --> 2:34:59.720 strong or something. And it's like, ma'am, you are France, 2:35:00.360 --> 2:35:04.280 Like come on, okay, yeah, sure, France is acting for 2:35:04.320 --> 2:35:06.960 the protection of the weak against the straw. 2:35:07.080 --> 2:35:12.120 It's like, oh my, I mean, look, I would if 2:35:12.120 --> 2:35:14.480 I had the option, I would keep a nuke in 2:35:14.480 --> 2:35:19.200 my basement, you know, just in case, yeah, someone someone 2:35:19.240 --> 2:35:21.480 comes to my house. You know, we've got I've got 2:35:21.560 --> 2:35:25.960 the option then, right, like what if because like right now, okay, 2:35:26.400 --> 2:35:30.160 say Pakistan decides to try to rob my house. I 2:35:30.160 --> 2:35:32.199 don't have a counter to their nuclear arsenal. 2:35:32.520 --> 2:35:33.039 But if I. 2:35:33.080 --> 2:35:35.240 Keep you know, and I'm not even talking to like 2:35:35.360 --> 2:35:39.000 six to ten megatons in my basement, that's enough, I 2:35:39.040 --> 2:35:42.760 think to discourage aggression, right or if like my neighbor 2:35:42.920 --> 2:35:45.440 decides to call the city on me, you know, I've 2:35:45.440 --> 2:35:46.160 got an option. 2:35:47.040 --> 2:35:48.959 There's a problem with this plan, which how are you 2:35:49.000 --> 2:35:51.320 getting the nuke from your apartment to Pakistan? 2:35:52.440 --> 2:35:56.760 Well, I mean it's if they come to my house. Right, 2:35:57.320 --> 2:35:59.280 that way I can I can nuke all of my 2:35:59.440 --> 2:36:01.119 stuff so that they won't want it, and that way 2:36:01.120 --> 2:36:02.560 they won't rob me in the first place. 2:36:02.640 --> 2:36:07.160 Right, this makes about as much sense as actual nuclear 2:36:07.440 --> 2:36:10.520 actual nuclear doctrine. Yeah, it's it's. 2:36:10.440 --> 2:36:13.040 Worked for decades, Mia, Like, I don't know what your 2:36:13.080 --> 2:36:17.080 problem is here. If it if it's worked for for 2:36:17.160 --> 2:36:19.560 all of these great powers, you know, it can work 2:36:19.600 --> 2:36:21.760 for me. Or I could do what the British do 2:36:22.320 --> 2:36:24.320 and send you know, some of my some of my 2:36:24.400 --> 2:36:28.240 people out. I could send James or Garrison out underwater 2:36:28.400 --> 2:36:30.840 with a nuclear weapon and just have them always waiting 2:36:30.879 --> 2:36:33.680 in the sea to nuke my adversaries if somebody takes 2:36:33.720 --> 2:36:39.280 me out, much like the British nuclear fleet. See, we we. 2:36:39.640 --> 2:36:41.440 As a human race are really good at coming up 2:36:41.480 --> 2:36:45.520 with good ideas. Yeah, we have our ideas. Our das 2:36:45.560 --> 2:36:47.920 are amazing, they rock. We never have any bad ones. 2:36:48.400 --> 2:36:50.880 It is funny that there's just like some guys who 2:36:50.920 --> 2:36:54.040 are expected to like follow a dead man's orders at 2:36:54.040 --> 2:36:57.400 the end of the world, uh, for for unclear reasons. 2:36:57.440 --> 2:36:59.200 Like there's just a letter and it's like, if all 2:36:59.200 --> 2:37:01.680 of your loved ones die, open this letter. And do 2:37:01.720 --> 2:37:06.720 whatever it says. You are really funny when you think 2:37:06.760 --> 2:37:07.160 about him. 2:37:07.280 --> 2:37:08.800 Yeah. 2:37:08.959 --> 2:37:11.320 So, okay, So in the late sixties and early seventy 2:37:11.360 --> 2:37:13.520 there's people who are like, this is a terrible idea, 2:37:13.520 --> 2:37:16.600 we should not in fact drop nuclear bombs. And these 2:37:16.640 --> 2:37:19.000 groups in the late sixties become green Peace in nineteen 2:37:19.760 --> 2:37:20.640 nineteen seventy two. 2:37:21.160 --> 2:37:23.840 Okay, great for them, good for them. 2:37:24.040 --> 2:37:27.080 Yeah, all right, So we've talked about like the French 2:37:27.120 --> 2:37:31.520 having to move the nuclear program into the Pacific after 2:37:31.560 --> 2:37:37.800 being read out of Algeria. Green Peace starts doing direct 2:37:37.840 --> 2:37:43.000 actions against French nuclear testing, and so in nineteen seventy two, 2:37:43.160 --> 2:37:45.640 Dave mctagger's one of the founders of Greenpeace, sails his 2:37:45.760 --> 2:37:50.840 boat into a French nuclear testing area. Now, okay, I 2:37:51.720 --> 2:37:54.360 have my issues sort of in principle with like nonviolence 2:37:54.360 --> 2:37:57.720 as you're like pure organizing political principle. But if you 2:37:57.760 --> 2:38:00.280 are willing to sail your boat under a new your 2:38:00.320 --> 2:38:02.240 bomb to stop it from going off, that is that 2:38:02.320 --> 2:38:03.119 is pretty based. 2:38:03.640 --> 2:38:05.760 Yeah, man, I have trouble. I have trouble like coming 2:38:05.840 --> 2:38:08.120 up with any any any critiques of that. 2:38:08.320 --> 2:38:10.480 No, this rips, and like the other thing is like 2:38:10.480 --> 2:38:12.480 you know this isn't this isn't a stunt, right like 2:38:12.520 --> 2:38:15.000 they are they are actually prepared to get nuked. 2:38:15.840 --> 2:38:19.320 Yeah no, that's that seems like a pretty commitment. 2:38:19.440 --> 2:38:23.840 Yeah that it's it's sick. And so they refuse to 2:38:23.959 --> 2:38:26.760 leave and the French, the French Navy eventually gets so 2:38:26.920 --> 2:38:30.480 pissed off that a French Navy ship rams their boat 2:38:30.560 --> 2:38:33.600 like a fucking try rem in where to get them. 2:38:34.920 --> 2:38:38.680 So they're they're forced out because they're rammed by a 2:38:38.720 --> 2:38:39.480 tr ream. 2:38:41.800 --> 2:38:41.959 Us. 2:38:42.000 --> 2:38:45.040 We've all been there, so sometimes sometimes. 2:38:44.600 --> 2:38:45.920 You just get you just get rammed. 2:38:45.959 --> 2:38:48.879 I don't know, it happens so true. 2:38:50.760 --> 2:38:53.760 So they they green Peace tries to go to the 2:38:53.760 --> 2:38:56.119 International Court of Justice to get a ruling to force 2:38:56.200 --> 2:39:00.360 France to stop the testing, and the French government steaks 2:39:00.400 --> 2:39:03.280 out what I I I claim is like the primary 2:39:03.680 --> 2:39:06.400 status political principle, which is that what is justice to 2:39:06.440 --> 2:39:09.440 a man holding a gun? And they just absolutely ignore 2:39:10.240 --> 2:39:14.160 the International Court of Justice. So they in ninety seventy four, 2:39:14.160 --> 2:39:16.840 they're trying to do another set of nuclear tests and 2:39:18.120 --> 2:39:20.440 this time, you know, so green Piece is like, okay, 2:39:20.440 --> 2:39:22.640 well we're gonna we're gonna send like a flotilla of 2:39:22.720 --> 2:39:23.720 boats out this time. 2:39:24.440 --> 2:39:25.840 Did you just say a flotilla? 2:39:26.240 --> 2:39:28.000 Yeah? Is that a word? 2:39:28.320 --> 2:39:28.560 Yeah? 2:39:28.600 --> 2:39:30.520 Yeah, yeah, that's a group of boats. 2:39:30.520 --> 2:39:34.000 Scarce, that's like a that's like a murder of crows thing. 2:39:34.560 --> 2:39:37.560 No, yeah, yeah, but it's a very common name for 2:39:37.640 --> 2:39:38.400 a bunch of boats. 2:39:38.720 --> 2:39:40.119 I've never I've never heard that before. 2:39:40.520 --> 2:39:42.600 Now you have flotilla. Yeah. 2:39:42.760 --> 2:39:45.920 L Ron Hubbard had a flotilla of boats that he 2:39:46.120 --> 2:39:49.760 made teenagers pilot and jump off of when he was 2:39:49.800 --> 2:39:50.560 angry at them. 2:39:50.600 --> 2:39:51.840 You know, I was thinking about this. 2:39:51.879 --> 2:39:54.080 I think this is actually the first flotilla of boats 2:39:54.080 --> 2:39:55.640 that we've had on any of our shows. 2:39:55.360 --> 2:39:55.920 That is good. 2:39:56.840 --> 2:39:59.680 That's not that's not commanded by l Ron Hubbard. 2:40:00.080 --> 2:40:03.240 Yeah, or like the Moodies, it's it's a whole it's 2:40:03.280 --> 2:40:05.000 a whole sort of line of bad. But this is this is 2:40:05.080 --> 2:40:05.840 a good flotilla. 2:40:06.400 --> 2:40:08.080 But the Navy this time is like, Okay, we're not 2:40:08.120 --> 2:40:11.160 going to mess around with these people, like and you know, 2:40:11.240 --> 2:40:13.800 let them get inside the testing zone. Uh. They so 2:40:13.840 --> 2:40:16.080 they just bored mctabart ship and just beat the shit 2:40:16.120 --> 2:40:20.039 out of him and his crew. And so the the 2:40:19.920 --> 2:40:22.360 the French Navy claims that like, oh, the green Peace 2:40:22.440 --> 2:40:25.720 people just like turned around on their own and uh, McTaggert, 2:40:26.160 --> 2:40:29.400 you know, my tiger's like very badly visibly hurt. So 2:40:29.480 --> 2:40:31.600 he like shows up to the press and the French 2:40:31.680 --> 2:40:34.320 Navy goes, oh, I mean he's like mctigerant is like 2:40:34.400 --> 2:40:36.760 he is he he is like blind in one eye 2:40:36.760 --> 2:40:39.199 for several months, like he is very very badly beaten. 2:40:39.879 --> 2:40:42.360 And the French Navy claims that was actually the result 2:40:42.360 --> 2:40:45.320 of a fall, which I I I will allow you 2:40:45.360 --> 2:40:50.000 to draw your own conclusions are yeah, I'll I'll let 2:40:50.000 --> 2:40:51.960 you draw your own conclusions. But parallels between the state 2:40:52.000 --> 2:40:56.400 and domestic abusers. But yeah, Unfortunately for the French Navy, 2:40:56.440 --> 2:40:58.720 the Green Peace crew have managed to like get the 2:40:58.760 --> 2:41:01.480 beatings on camera, and they're able to smuggle like the 2:41:01.480 --> 2:41:04.560 film canister off the boat and get it to the newspapers, 2:41:04.560 --> 2:41:06.959 and so the newspapers the next day just have a 2:41:07.000 --> 2:41:09.600 bunch of like pictures showing the French Navy just beating 2:41:09.680 --> 2:41:12.000 the shit out of these like random Green Piece people, 2:41:14.480 --> 2:41:16.800 and this eventually actually works. 2:41:16.920 --> 2:41:17.080 Right. 2:41:17.520 --> 2:41:19.039 There's there's there's sort of there's I mean, there's there's 2:41:19.040 --> 2:41:22.039 a sort of political pressure campaign that Green Pieces waging. 2:41:22.040 --> 2:41:24.040 There are these there are these campaigns in the French 2:41:24.120 --> 2:41:25.960 courts to get the government to stop, and eventually, in 2:41:26.040 --> 2:41:29.480 nineteen seventy four, the French government agrees to stop conducting 2:41:29.520 --> 2:41:33.800 atmospheric tests and nuclear weapons. Now, Robert, do you know 2:41:33.800 --> 2:41:38.200 who else stopped conducting atmospheric testing after years of public 2:41:38.200 --> 2:41:43.520 pressure campaigns? The US and the USSR. Yes, but also 2:41:44.080 --> 2:41:45.760 the products and services that's. 2:41:45.600 --> 2:41:48.640 Oh, that supports this podcast. Yeah, No, I mean most 2:41:48.680 --> 2:41:53.720 most of them. Most of them. Ah, we're back, and 2:41:53.920 --> 2:41:57.440 you know that I'm hearing now that we we did 2:41:57.640 --> 2:42:00.920 have an ad from Blue Apron in there, who does 2:42:01.080 --> 2:42:06.200 continue like low earth orbit atmospheric nuclear weapons testing. But 2:42:06.840 --> 2:42:09.880 you know, it's the only way to get your food 2:42:09.920 --> 2:42:13.320 boxes to you in a timely manner. They have to 2:42:13.440 --> 2:42:18.920 use the Orion drive, which is a special spacecraft engine 2:42:19.040 --> 2:42:21.960 that relies on popping nuclear weapons out of the back 2:42:22.000 --> 2:42:25.200 of a spaceship and using them to accelerate it to 2:42:25.320 --> 2:42:29.120 near light speed. It's actually that's a you can look 2:42:29.120 --> 2:42:30.800 that up. It's a pretty cool idea. I think we 2:42:30.800 --> 2:42:31.720 should do it. 2:42:31.200 --> 2:42:33.959 It is very funny to me that it's like, Okay, 2:42:34.320 --> 2:42:36.960 we have this incredibly convoluted drive that's powered by nuclear 2:42:36.959 --> 2:42:40.560 weapons and it gets you to around the speed of light. 2:42:40.680 --> 2:42:44.039 Maybe it's it's not even convoluted. It's literally just the 2:42:44.080 --> 2:42:47.160 spaceship poops out a nuke and it makes it go faster. 2:42:50.480 --> 2:42:52.880 It's a fun idea. I'm gonna be honest with you. 2:42:53.000 --> 2:42:54.680 I think it's a fun idea, is. 2:42:54.640 --> 2:42:57.879 But like it can't even get you to like the 2:42:57.959 --> 2:42:59.720 next solar system very fast. 2:43:00.160 --> 2:43:03.039 Well, nothing probably ever can, which is why we're all 2:43:03.080 --> 2:43:04.600 doomed to die alone in the dark. 2:43:05.080 --> 2:43:08.840 Yeah, very sad. Other thing that's sad. Okay, So the 2:43:08.840 --> 2:43:13.119 French government agrees to stop doing tests in the atmosphere, right, however, 2:43:13.320 --> 2:43:14.680 this is just atmospheric tests. 2:43:14.720 --> 2:43:18.040 I never agreed to stop doing like non atmospheric tests. 2:43:19.200 --> 2:43:21.720 So in nineteen eighty five, the French government is gearing 2:43:21.800 --> 2:43:23.800 up to do another round of nuclear testing and green 2:43:23.800 --> 2:43:26.120 Peace is once again bringing a flotilla to try to 2:43:26.160 --> 2:43:30.320 stop them. Now green Peace are already in nineteen eighty five, 2:43:30.360 --> 2:43:34.400 they've been involved in another anti nuclear well okay, really 2:43:34.560 --> 2:43:39.200 is it's all the same anti nuclear campaign. But so 2:43:39.360 --> 2:43:41.840 the other people who are dropping nukes in the Pacific 2:43:41.959 --> 2:43:46.280 are the US, and when they nuke the Marshall Islands, 2:43:46.320 --> 2:43:50.560 the people of this island called Runga Lap began suffering 2:43:50.560 --> 2:43:53.440 from radiation exposure, even though they were also once again 2:43:53.480 --> 2:43:56.560 told by the American government that they were fine, and 2:43:57.040 --> 2:43:59.119 so that the US is going to drop another nuke 2:44:00.160 --> 2:44:05.760 and they refuse to evacuate these people, and so green 2:44:05.800 --> 2:44:09.520 Peace like brings their boats, like brings the Rainbow Warrior, 2:44:09.640 --> 2:44:12.119 and so these people ask like green Peace for help. 2:44:12.120 --> 2:44:14.879 But so green Peace like evacuates them all to another 2:44:14.920 --> 2:44:17.960 island and like brings like construction materials and supply so 2:44:18.000 --> 2:44:20.680 they can like set up on a new island. And 2:44:20.760 --> 2:44:24.840 it's this really I don't know, it's it's a really 2:44:24.879 --> 2:44:30.039 sort of grim look into what, you know, like what 2:44:30.080 --> 2:44:31.560 this new Coro testing actually means, which is that a 2:44:31.560 --> 2:44:32.959 bunch of people who've been living in a place for 2:44:33.040 --> 2:44:36.840 hundreds of years are forced to flee for their lives, 2:44:36.840 --> 2:44:39.440 like you know, the state won't the state won't even 2:44:39.520 --> 2:44:42.080 like ethnically cleanse them right like they they are they 2:44:42.120 --> 2:44:45.160 are forcibly relocated from their homes, but the state won't 2:44:45.160 --> 2:44:46.760 even do it because the state's like, no, it's fine, 2:44:46.760 --> 2:44:49.280 where's You're just gonna die radiation poisoning, And so they 2:44:49.320 --> 2:44:53.520 have to get someone else to like move them and 2:44:53.560 --> 2:44:55.480 it's I don't know, it's it's really bleak. 2:44:55.840 --> 2:44:56.000 Uh. 2:44:57.080 --> 2:45:01.320 These people survive, which is good, but the US doing 2:45:01.520 --> 2:45:05.520 necrotesting in the Marshall Islands, which I'm betting at least 2:45:05.560 --> 2:45:07.640 forty percent of you don't know of the US control. 2:45:10.560 --> 2:45:12.480 Yeah, it sucks. 2:45:14.000 --> 2:45:17.880 So okay, So they get done with this evacuation, they're 2:45:17.920 --> 2:45:21.480 back in Auckland and then their flagship, they're Able Warrior, 2:45:21.520 --> 2:45:25.199 gets bombed and Greenpeace talks later about how they actually 2:45:25.200 --> 2:45:27.880 got really lucky because you know, I remember when I 2:45:27.879 --> 2:45:29.560 said earlier there are people who were still awake like 2:45:29.600 --> 2:45:32.880 playing cards. If those people had been in their cabins, 2:45:32.959 --> 2:45:34.960 a bunch of them basically would have drowned immediately because 2:45:35.040 --> 2:45:38.240 the cabins got flooded instantly by the first bomb. So 2:45:38.360 --> 2:45:43.880 they got very lucky. Only one person died. I to 2:45:43.920 --> 2:45:46.640 this day, I do not understand why the people who 2:45:46.640 --> 2:45:48.560 did this thought they could do this without killing anyone. 2:45:49.480 --> 2:45:52.200 It's baffling to me. I don't know. 2:45:52.320 --> 2:45:55.600 I at least they claimed they weren't trying to kill anyone. 2:45:56.320 --> 2:45:59.680 So New Zealand police start investigating. You know, hey, there's 2:45:59.720 --> 2:46:02.360 been a a like a terrorist attack on a boat 2:46:02.400 --> 2:46:02.959 in our harbor. 2:46:03.400 --> 2:46:05.800 Sure, and that seems like a thing you'd look into. 2:46:05.959 --> 2:46:07.039 Yeah, I get that. 2:46:07.560 --> 2:46:10.480 They get very, very lucky. And they get lucky because 2:46:10.480 --> 2:46:12.280 there are two people in this boating club who are 2:46:12.320 --> 2:46:14.400 like watching the harbor trying to see if it's like 2:46:14.400 --> 2:46:17.640 trying to catch someone who's been stealing diving equipment. And 2:46:17.800 --> 2:46:19.760 in the middle of the night they see a man 2:46:19.840 --> 2:46:24.600 in a black wetsuit carrying a Zodiac inflatable speedboat ashore 2:46:24.640 --> 2:46:27.720 and get into a van. Now, okay, so it's in 2:46:27.800 --> 2:46:30.240 goodna be wish bottle of Zodiac. This is for people 2:46:30.280 --> 2:46:33.360 not familiar with boats. Zodiac makes something called the mill Pro, 2:46:33.480 --> 2:46:35.959 which is a a like it's an inflatable speedboat that 2:46:36.040 --> 2:46:38.960 is used by like most of the world's special forces units. 2:46:40.200 --> 2:46:41.279 And so these two. 2:46:41.200 --> 2:46:45.360 Guys are like, this is really sketchy. They and and 2:46:45.440 --> 2:46:48.080 so they they're you know, they put two and two 2:46:48.080 --> 2:46:50.360 together when they realize that a boat's been blown up 2:46:50.680 --> 2:46:52.600 and they're like, oh my god, it was probably these guys. 2:46:52.640 --> 2:46:55.800 So they go to the police and they're able to 2:46:55.800 --> 2:46:58.000 get the license plate of the van, and so the 2:46:58.080 --> 2:47:01.640 staff at this like van depot have to like sit 2:47:01.720 --> 2:47:04.119 there and like stall the two people in the van 2:47:04.200 --> 2:47:06.080 and keep them from leaving long enough for the cops 2:47:06.080 --> 2:47:08.520 to show up, which something I really really desperately want 2:47:08.520 --> 2:47:11.960 a video of. That just sounds really funny. 2:47:12.600 --> 2:47:15.240 I do love the idea of like the average people 2:47:15.280 --> 2:47:19.440 who work at like a car rental company being asked like, hey, 2:47:19.440 --> 2:47:22.000 could you do like a little bit of counter terrorism 2:47:22.120 --> 2:47:25.400 for us today? Just like a SCOSHIVI it in between 2:47:25.440 --> 2:47:28.360 denying people rentals because they don't have a credit card. 2:47:29.600 --> 2:47:32.800 Amazing and Okay. So then the cops show up and 2:47:32.840 --> 2:47:35.080 they arrest these this couple who are claiming to be 2:47:35.120 --> 2:47:39.200 newly weds, but the New Zealand government quickly discovers that 2:47:39.400 --> 2:47:45.800 both these people have forged passports from Sweden, and so 2:47:46.240 --> 2:47:49.880 they discover their real names. And by god, is that 2:47:50.040 --> 2:47:52.640 the mercy? Is that is a man with the benguet. 2:47:52.879 --> 2:47:56.520 It is the French CIA. They have planted this bomb 2:47:57.240 --> 2:47:59.800 and there's the French CIA. 2:48:00.080 --> 2:48:04.480 Hold on, because we can't just say the French c 2:48:04.600 --> 2:48:04.840 i A. 2:48:06.000 --> 2:48:10.400 It's the Directorate General for External Security or g s E. 2:48:11.840 --> 2:48:15.040 That's a much worse, much less Definitely. 2:48:14.680 --> 2:48:16.720 We're gonna we're gonna go back to calling it the French. 2:48:17.080 --> 2:48:20.959 Yeah, I'm gonna read the Secret Police. I think we 2:48:21.000 --> 2:48:23.840 can all agree. Secret police need to have three letter 2:48:23.879 --> 2:48:27.280 acrons C I, A, G, R, U, F B I Like, 2:48:27.360 --> 2:48:30.960 it just doesn't work with four. You need to have 2:48:31.040 --> 2:48:34.280 one kind of sinister sounding name, like the macabat, but 2:48:34.440 --> 2:48:37.680 like the d G S E. Oh my god, I'm 2:48:37.720 --> 2:48:39.320 sorry that sounds like a bank. 2:48:42.120 --> 2:48:44.480 It's a direction general. 2:48:48.240 --> 2:48:48.879 Trash. 2:48:49.720 --> 2:48:53.320 You have been You have been suppressing people for so long, 2:48:53.440 --> 2:48:55.920 and you don't have a better secret police name than that. 2:48:55.920 --> 2:48:56.760 That's shameful. 2:48:57.240 --> 2:48:57.560 By the way. 2:48:57.680 --> 2:49:02.440 Their address, that's a wait, fucking name. The name good, 2:49:02.600 --> 2:49:04.960 incredible or am I five whatever the real one is. 2:49:05.160 --> 2:49:05.520 Yeah. 2:49:05.560 --> 2:49:07.400 Anyways, if you if you ever want to go, like 2:49:07.440 --> 2:49:09.560 take a visit to these people, they're at Their headquarters 2:49:09.600 --> 2:49:13.680 is on one forty one Boulevard Bartier, Paris, France. It's 2:49:13.720 --> 2:49:19.520 at forty eight dot eighty seven forty four north two 2:49:20.160 --> 2:49:22.520 four oh six seven YaST latitude. Right. 2:49:23.000 --> 2:49:24.640 I don't need to go back to France. Yeah, I 2:49:24.680 --> 2:49:30.480 go fuck with the dgsese. I'm not that big a 2:49:30.560 --> 2:49:33.080 wine guy. It's fine. 2:49:34.120 --> 2:49:37.360 So they catch these agents whose names are I shit 2:49:37.440 --> 2:49:41.840 you not Gene Camas and Jean Luke Castaire. 2:49:41.840 --> 2:49:44.160 No, yeah, that makes sense. 2:49:45.200 --> 2:49:49.640 No, so the police catch these two, there's like ten 2:49:49.680 --> 2:49:52.800 to other well, there's like eight other people involved. Two 2:49:52.840 --> 2:49:54.800 of them get I think like maybe two one or 2:49:54.800 --> 2:49:58.160 two of them get caught in Australia, but the Australian 2:49:58.200 --> 2:49:59.920 police aren't able to hold them long enough for the 2:50:00.040 --> 2:50:02.040 forensic evidence to come in, so they have to release 2:50:02.080 --> 2:50:04.440 them and they flee. And there's this whole thing where 2:50:04.480 --> 2:50:06.520 like they flee at a yacht and then they get 2:50:06.560 --> 2:50:08.879 on a submarine and the submarine shoots the yacht to 2:50:08.920 --> 2:50:09.280 sink it. 2:50:09.400 --> 2:50:11.920 As it's a whole thing. 2:50:11.879 --> 2:50:15.040 And I actually, okay, it probably is worth mentioning here 2:50:15.080 --> 2:50:20.160 that as as silly as the French CIA's name sound, 2:50:20.400 --> 2:50:22.760 name sounds like, they have one of the most extensive 2:50:22.760 --> 2:50:25.800 networks of surveillance and sabotage of any intelligence agency in 2:50:25.800 --> 2:50:29.520 the world. It never gets talked about, but they have 2:50:29.560 --> 2:50:30.520 people everywhere. 2:50:30.760 --> 2:50:33.240 They are lethal. They absolutely suck. 2:50:36.320 --> 2:50:42.120 But yeah, so they get caught and the French order 2:50:42.160 --> 2:50:47.280 an investigation, and their first investigation concludes that like, well, 2:50:47.320 --> 2:50:50.080 we asked, well, okay, so these people are our spies, right, 2:50:50.400 --> 2:50:52.520 but we just asked the spy on green Peace. We 2:50:52.560 --> 2:50:56.680 didn't ask them to do a bombing, and everyone's like, okay, yeah, sure, 2:50:56.760 --> 2:50:57.480 French government. 2:50:57.640 --> 2:50:59.720 So the French we have been there. 2:51:00.320 --> 2:51:02.840 Yeah, it's like, well, no, okay, so you you you 2:51:03.160 --> 2:51:06.280 may have caught two of our spies dragging a Zodiac 2:51:06.360 --> 2:51:08.520 boat well with a guy a guya a website, dragged 2:51:08.520 --> 2:51:10.440 a Zodiac boat into a van, but doesn't mean he 2:51:10.480 --> 2:51:11.120 did the bombing. 2:51:11.879 --> 2:51:12.879 And the French. 2:51:12.640 --> 2:51:15.280 Media does her own investigation and like quickly concludes that 2:51:15.320 --> 2:51:18.360 like not, not only did the French order the bombing, 2:51:18.440 --> 2:51:20.920 the bombing was personally signed off on by French Defense 2:51:21.040 --> 2:51:27.520 Minister Charles Herdu and also quite possibly French President Frenchois Mitterrand. 2:51:29.200 --> 2:51:32.240 And well, okay, at least Mita Arran's got a good 2:51:32.320 --> 2:51:33.680 name for an evil president. 2:51:34.000 --> 2:51:35.800 Yeah, well this is interesting, right because if you know 2:51:35.840 --> 2:51:37.560 your French history, for tho, those of you who know 2:51:37.560 --> 2:51:40.320 your French history, you will note that Midran is a 2:51:40.360 --> 2:51:43.720 man to the French left. He's he's he's the prime minister, 2:51:43.879 --> 2:51:46.840 he's the president from the Francis Socialist Party. Right, he 2:51:46.879 --> 2:51:50.039 has like, okay, he has a program of amnesty for 2:51:50.160 --> 2:51:53.280 Italian communist terrorists. Were like, if you're able to make 2:51:53.320 --> 2:51:55.200 it to France, they won't extradut you. 2:51:55.760 --> 2:51:56.560 That's pretty cool. 2:51:56.760 --> 2:51:58.959 The Communists would never have a nuclear bomb. 2:52:00.520 --> 2:52:03.400 So it's very famously Ontonio Negri, who's the guy who 2:52:03.400 --> 2:52:05.280 writes a bunch of books that are very famous in 2:52:05.280 --> 2:52:08.760 the early two thousands, he's like, he's one of the 2:52:08.760 --> 2:52:12.440 founders of the Autonomists. He flees to He uses this 2:52:12.560 --> 2:52:14.840 to flee to France after the Italian government accused him 2:52:14.840 --> 2:52:17.119 of being the mastermind of the Red Brigades who had 2:52:17.120 --> 2:52:19.360 just kidnapped and killed for Prime Minister Alden Morrow. So 2:52:19.400 --> 2:52:22.760 Negrid gets himself parliamentary immunity by getting elected as an 2:52:22.840 --> 2:52:26.120 MP and then flees to France, which is just very funny. 2:52:26.520 --> 2:52:28.959 And then Metiran refuses the extra d item. So okay. 2:52:29.000 --> 2:52:30.800 So on the one that you would think that Midrand 2:52:30.879 --> 2:52:33.560 is like, I don't know, kind of cool. 2:52:33.840 --> 2:52:40.600 I don't. I don't think so I don't. Yeah, so Midiirrand. Okay. 2:52:40.640 --> 2:52:43.360 So in terms of sort of being sympathetic, Midran is 2:52:43.400 --> 2:52:46.560 like a is a kind of different kind of neoliberal 2:52:47.520 --> 2:52:49.440 than the kind that we that we sort of know. 2:52:49.480 --> 2:52:52.359 So I would classify in terms of sort of neoliberal 2:52:52.480 --> 2:52:55.400 like neoliberal politicians, right, like neoliberal heads of countures. I 2:52:55.400 --> 2:52:57.960 think there's sort of like three kinds of them. There 2:52:58.000 --> 2:53:00.760 are sort of the right wing hardliners who people like Thatcher, 2:53:00.879 --> 2:53:05.000 like Pinochet and Reagan, the Reagan's Weirdly, Reagan is slightly 2:53:05.080 --> 2:53:08.160 less hardline than like Thatcher is, but yeah, so okay, 2:53:08.200 --> 2:53:10.640 So there's those people. There's the sort of like third 2:53:10.680 --> 2:53:13.560 way neoliberals like Clinton and Tony Blair, who are like 2:53:14.480 --> 2:53:16.560 I guess like liberals in the American sense, but are 2:53:16.560 --> 2:53:21.000 still sort of like real hardliners on economics. And then 2:53:21.040 --> 2:53:22.840 there's a group of people I would call like the 2:53:22.959 --> 2:53:27.840 quote unquote socialist neoliberals like Midterrans and Italy's longtime Socialist 2:53:27.840 --> 2:53:33.400 Party prime minister Bettino Croxy, Like I don't know if 2:53:33.400 --> 2:53:35.160 I can actually call him the most corrupt man in 2:53:35.200 --> 2:53:37.160 Italian politics, but like he's like at least in the 2:53:37.200 --> 2:53:41.760 top five, but he's prime minister for like twenty years, and. 2:53:41.720 --> 2:53:42.640 He's also like this. 2:53:42.680 --> 2:53:45.160 So these are these are people who are nominally socialists 2:53:45.160 --> 2:53:48.120 and we'll talk about like doing socialism, but then are 2:53:48.160 --> 2:53:50.160 also like implementing neoliberalism. 2:53:50.520 --> 2:53:52.680 And you know, I think. 2:53:52.560 --> 2:53:54.360 The closest thing to this in the US is like 2:53:54.600 --> 2:53:58.240 if Carter had beaten Reagan, we still would have gotten neoliberalism, 2:53:58.280 --> 2:53:59.760 but it would have been sort of like softer than 2:53:59.760 --> 2:54:05.200 it was under Reagan. So you know, you have your 2:54:05.240 --> 2:54:07.640 sort of kinder, gentular form of neoliberalism. And do you 2:54:07.720 --> 2:54:11.280 know who else advocates for a kinder ingentular form of neoliberalism? 2:54:11.840 --> 2:54:15.920 Oh not Blue Apron. No, they support going going right 2:54:15.959 --> 2:54:19.240 back to the old days. We're talking like East India 2:54:19.320 --> 2:54:23.720 Trading Company. In fact, as we speak, Blue Aprons flotilla 2:54:23.920 --> 2:54:27.240 is on the coast of India right now, ready ready 2:54:27.240 --> 2:54:30.240 to try their hand at making another raj in Calcutta. 2:54:31.160 --> 2:54:34.520 I wish you could all see Garrison's face. It's amazing, It's. 2:54:34.360 --> 2:54:35.400 Fine, it's fine. 2:54:37.040 --> 2:54:38.000 Ah, we're back. 2:54:38.680 --> 2:54:39.240 So all right. 2:54:39.280 --> 2:54:41.920 The consequence of this is that, you know, despite the 2:54:41.920 --> 2:54:44.320 fact that Midarin is like nominally a socialist, he is 2:54:44.440 --> 2:54:47.520 completely committed to nuclear testing as part of his nuclear 2:54:47.520 --> 2:54:48.440 deterrence program. 2:54:49.879 --> 2:54:54.160 Money funny, How that funny? How that always happens? Huh yeah, yeah, 2:54:54.200 --> 2:54:54.400 you know. 2:54:57.520 --> 2:55:00.920 Now, supporting colonialism is not out of care Fromiteran, who, 2:55:00.959 --> 2:55:03.360 as part of a previous coalition government in the fifties, 2:55:03.840 --> 2:55:08.440 had presided over the guillotining of Algerian rebels, but his 2:55:08.600 --> 2:55:12.200 reaction to his government and possibly also him personally bombing 2:55:12.200 --> 2:55:15.600 the Rainbow Warrior is not good. 2:55:16.120 --> 2:55:19.360 Yeah, so that's nice to hear, at least not a 2:55:19.959 --> 2:55:20.800 great look, buddy. 2:55:21.320 --> 2:55:24.240 Yeah so so, because French people are extremely normal, the 2:55:24.280 --> 2:55:27.440 reaction in the French public about their government carrying out 2:55:27.440 --> 2:55:31.240 a terrorist attack is that there's a giant nationalist upswell, 2:55:31.280 --> 2:55:36.360 and people get really angry because they're demanding that the 2:55:36.400 --> 2:55:39.800 two French intelligence agents who again are serving ten year 2:55:39.959 --> 2:55:43.760 manslaughter sentences in New Zealand for bombing a ship involved 2:55:43.800 --> 2:55:46.840 in non violent civil disobedience in the harbor of a 2:55:46.879 --> 2:55:50.039 country that France is not at war with. People are 2:55:50.120 --> 2:55:53.800 mad that they are like being held in prison and 2:55:53.840 --> 2:55:55.400 they're demanding they be released. 2:55:56.120 --> 2:56:00.520 That makes sense from like the. 2:55:59.320 --> 2:56:03.879 French national sides. It's the French fire right. They're pretty pretty. 2:56:03.600 --> 2:56:06.880 Amazing, right like like again, like they lots like lots 2:56:06.920 --> 2:56:08.960 of just like non far right people in France get 2:56:08.959 --> 2:56:11.840 involved in this, and they had this whole thing about 2:56:12.080 --> 2:56:14.160 the way they talk about it is amazing that they 2:56:14.240 --> 2:56:17.200 talk about it in terms of liberating them. It's like 2:56:17.480 --> 2:56:21.160 they just murdered a guy with a bob like multiple 2:56:21.160 --> 2:56:23.199 but they use two mines. 2:56:22.800 --> 2:56:23.840 To blow this ship up. 2:56:24.200 --> 2:56:28.960 It's like and and so the Minigan's government's response is 2:56:29.280 --> 2:56:32.039 they start putting sanctions on New Zealand's exports. 2:56:33.160 --> 2:56:34.680 That's funny, that's funny. 2:56:34.760 --> 2:56:36.720 And this is this is a huge deal for New 2:56:36.760 --> 2:56:40.160 Zealand because they're they have a you know, New Zealand's 2:56:40.160 --> 2:56:42.680 economy is like in large part agricultural based export economy, 2:56:42.680 --> 2:56:45.760 and they export just an enormous amount of cheese to France. 2:56:47.600 --> 2:56:48.400 I did not know that. 2:56:48.720 --> 2:56:51.040 Yeah, well, so I New Zealand is like one of 2:56:51.080 --> 2:56:52.519 the words leading dairy producers. 2:56:52.800 --> 2:56:53.599 Yeah. 2:56:53.840 --> 2:56:56.680 I thought they mostly just made those like elfin Dwarf 2:56:56.800 --> 2:56:58.119 and Wizard movies, but. 2:56:58.160 --> 2:57:00.200 Oh yeah, I mean they do make a lot of 2:57:00.240 --> 2:57:04.160 money producing limbus cakes, which which can keep you going 2:57:04.200 --> 2:57:05.199 for an entire week. 2:57:05.240 --> 2:57:08.120 You know, I'm realizing, I'm realizing now I'm not gared. 2:57:08.200 --> 2:57:10.680 Do you know a story of how of how New 2:57:10.760 --> 2:57:13.920 Zealand was was like dragged into supporting the Iraq war 2:57:14.000 --> 2:57:17.080 and sending troops to a rock No, okay, okay, I 2:57:17.080 --> 2:57:18.520 need to tell the story. So I'm realizing there's some 2:57:18.560 --> 2:57:19.920 of our listeners who might not have heard this. The 2:57:19.959 --> 2:57:22.760 last time I told the story. Okay, So in the 2:57:22.760 --> 2:57:26.440 Wiki leaks papers, it comes out that New Zealand, New 2:57:26.520 --> 2:57:29.640 Zealand sent troops to a rock because so New Zealand 2:57:29.680 --> 2:57:33.320 had had a milk for oil program where they would 2:57:33.320 --> 2:57:35.960 trade milk to a rock for oil. And the US 2:57:36.120 --> 2:57:38.440 threatened that after the after they invaded a Rock, they 2:57:38.480 --> 2:57:40.320 were going to cut off the milk for oil deal. 2:57:41.440 --> 2:57:44.640 And this was this was like Fonterra. They're like the 2:57:44.760 --> 2:57:49.960 giant like milk Cooperative in in New Zealand was so powerful. 2:57:50.080 --> 2:57:53.760 And the New Zealand government was like, fine, don't don't 2:57:53.760 --> 2:57:57.360 cut off our dairy, our milk for oil program. We 2:57:57.400 --> 2:58:00.600 will go to war. So yet New zeal Zealand. New 2:58:00.680 --> 2:58:02.120 Zealand did not go to war from oil. And New 2:58:02.200 --> 2:58:03.879 Zealand went to war for the milk market. 2:58:04.080 --> 2:58:07.000 And and that's why we called it a coalition of 2:58:07.040 --> 2:58:08.040 the willing yep. 2:58:12.120 --> 2:58:14.440 New Zealand is a truly a cursive place. 2:58:14.480 --> 2:58:17.600 And and you know, and the it is I don't think 2:58:17.640 --> 2:58:20.720 New Zealand's the cursed one, and that it's true. 2:58:20.440 --> 2:58:22.760 But they also like this is the this is the 2:58:22.800 --> 2:58:25.680 second time. But New Zealand is going to capitulate to 2:58:26.080 --> 2:58:28.680 like through the demands of a violating perialists in order 2:58:28.680 --> 2:58:29.920 to save their cheese market. 2:58:30.520 --> 2:58:33.680 I mean, that's that's like a fair criticism of New Zealand. 2:58:33.720 --> 2:58:37.120 But as an American, I do feel like I don't 2:58:37.160 --> 2:58:39.680 really have much room to like talk shit on this 2:58:39.760 --> 2:58:40.720 particular ship. 2:58:41.560 --> 2:58:44.680 It is, it is our fault, this is happening. 2:58:45.120 --> 2:58:47.800 Yeah, I just I'm not gonna blame New Zealand for this. 2:58:47.920 --> 2:58:49.200 Okay, that's fair, that's fair. 2:58:49.200 --> 2:58:51.840 I will kind of blame them for this one. This 2:58:51.879 --> 2:58:53.520 is also France's fault. 2:58:53.840 --> 2:58:56.320 So what what they're able to do is they're able 2:58:56.520 --> 2:58:59.039 to well, okay, partially also so like eight of the 2:58:59.120 --> 2:59:02.600 other people who are involved in this bobbing like are 2:59:02.680 --> 2:59:05.520 just got out free, and so New Zealand is like, hey, 2:59:05.560 --> 2:59:07.120 will you guys like send us these people so we 2:59:07.120 --> 2:59:08.959 can try them in fact, is like no, absolutely not. 2:59:09.280 --> 2:59:12.160 In fact, we will impost sanctions on you. And what 2:59:12.160 --> 2:59:14.160 they're able to do is they're able to force New 2:59:14.280 --> 2:59:17.680 Zealand to like enter un arbitration, even though again they've 2:59:17.680 --> 2:59:20.720 already arrested and convicted these two guys right because they 2:59:20.720 --> 2:59:24.440 obviously did it, and the un and typical un fashion 2:59:24.520 --> 2:59:27.840 goes okay, so France is powerful and New Zealand isn't, 2:59:27.879 --> 2:59:30.240 so fuck them, and they negotiate a deal where like 2:59:30.280 --> 2:59:32.720 these two French officers are going to be like released 2:59:32.720 --> 2:59:35.760 and stationed in this like tiny island at the French 2:59:35.760 --> 2:59:39.959 control for three years. And so the French doesn't. They 2:59:40.000 --> 2:59:43.160 don't even do that. They pull these guys out in 2:59:43.240 --> 2:59:51.960 less than two years. So New Zealand isn't. It doesn't 2:59:51.959 --> 2:59:52.280 go great. 2:59:52.320 --> 2:59:53.080 I mean, I don't know. 2:59:53.200 --> 2:59:56.080 I say it doesn't go great for them in the 2:59:56.080 --> 2:59:59.080 short term. They suffer a series of catastrophic defeats. In 2:59:59.120 --> 3:00:01.800 the midterm. French eventually get ordered to pay eight point 3:00:01.800 --> 3:00:04.840 one million dollars to Greenpeace, who use the money to 3:00:04.840 --> 3:00:08.920 make another boat called the Rable Warrior two and continue 3:00:09.000 --> 3:00:13.840 to like sale fleets to stop French nuclear testing. And 3:00:14.000 --> 3:00:16.720 I'm gonna I'm gonna reads with green Peace's website quote. 3:00:16.760 --> 3:00:19.480 In nineteen ninety five, the Rainbow Warrior two was bordered 3:00:19.520 --> 3:00:23.240 by French commandos as it led further protests against nuclear 3:00:23.240 --> 3:00:26.320 testing a Moorea toll. When green Peace activists were asked 3:00:26.360 --> 3:00:30.160 for their names, they only gave one, Fernando Perieira, which is. 3:00:30.080 --> 3:00:32.000 The name of the guy who the French had. 3:00:31.959 --> 3:00:36.520 Killed earlier, so they have their I'm Spartacus moments, and 3:00:36.959 --> 3:00:40.520 you know, eventually it takes a very very long time, 3:00:41.720 --> 3:00:45.840 but they win. In nineteen ninety six, France and China 3:00:45.959 --> 3:00:48.400 do like one last nuclear test and then signed the 3:00:48.440 --> 3:00:52.760 Comprehensive Nuclear Test Ban treaty. Indian and Pakistan do a 3:00:52.760 --> 3:00:55.800 pair test each in nineteen eighty nine. But since then 3:00:56.000 --> 3:00:58.840 no country has tested a nuclear weapon except North Korea, 3:00:58.959 --> 3:01:01.840 who does it all the time. But you know, I 3:01:03.040 --> 3:01:05.680 don't know what green Peace is supposed to do testing 3:01:05.760 --> 3:01:06.720 nuclear weapons. 3:01:07.160 --> 3:01:09.920 Yeah, I mean, look, you can't and it is I 3:01:09.959 --> 3:01:13.840 will say this, like from a real politique point of view, 3:01:13.920 --> 3:01:16.400 you know, there's an argument to be made that like, yeah, 3:01:16.520 --> 3:01:21.959 the the kind of balance of nuclear power certainly provides 3:01:22.000 --> 3:01:24.760 a degree of protection to some countries. But my argument 3:01:24.840 --> 3:01:29.439 would be not having tested your weapons makes them more frightening. 3:01:29.480 --> 3:01:31.200 If you're France and you're like, look, man, anyone who 3:01:31.280 --> 3:01:33.360 tests us. We don't know what's going to happen when 3:01:33.360 --> 3:01:35.120 we fire these things. We don't know if they're going 3:01:35.160 --> 3:01:36.920 to go to the right place. We have no idea 3:01:36.959 --> 3:01:39.400 what will happen when we fire our nukes. So come 3:01:39.440 --> 3:01:42.160 on and fuck with us, but literally anything could happen. 3:01:42.600 --> 3:01:44.560 That just seems like a better threat to me. 3:01:46.520 --> 3:01:50.240 I'm not going to advocate that one, but I think 3:01:50.280 --> 3:01:51.119 that's the stance. 3:01:51.160 --> 3:01:54.240 I think that's the stance. You know, build increasingly large 3:01:54.280 --> 3:01:56.880 weapons and never test them so that we just know 3:01:56.920 --> 3:01:58.959 if shit goes down, we could all die. 3:02:01.120 --> 3:02:01.320 You know. 3:02:01.400 --> 3:02:03.360 Okay, well it doesn't, it doesn't. 3:02:03.480 --> 3:02:06.360 It doesn't involve nuclear testing. So I got I'm coming 3:02:06.360 --> 3:02:07.360 around to this position. 3:02:07.600 --> 3:02:11.760 Never never test them. Just build increasingly large doomsday devices 3:02:12.200 --> 3:02:14.600 and be like, no one knows what'll happen if we 3:02:14.680 --> 3:02:20.000 have a war. Why not maybe none of them work, 3:02:20.040 --> 3:02:22.280 and we all get to really think about what we've 3:02:22.280 --> 3:02:25.959 been doing, you. 3:02:25.920 --> 3:02:28.160 Know, I I in all seriously though, this is a 3:02:28.200 --> 3:02:30.880 massive victory. There are there are millions upon millions of 3:02:30.879 --> 3:02:32.800 people across the world, and millions of people who have 3:02:32.879 --> 3:02:35.280 yet to be born who are going to live their 3:02:35.320 --> 3:02:38.039 lives free of the effect of radiation poisoning because people 3:02:38.040 --> 3:02:39.480 stood up and fought nuclear testing. 3:02:39.879 --> 3:02:41.480 Yeah, and you. 3:02:41.400 --> 3:02:42.840 Know, this is the message that I want to sort 3:02:42.879 --> 3:02:45.920 of end Earth Day with with, which is the people 3:02:45.959 --> 3:02:48.480 who are destroying this world are incredibly powerful, and they 3:02:48.480 --> 3:02:50.440 are willing to kill protesters in order to keep their 3:02:50.480 --> 3:02:52.920 power and keep making the world further. But if you 3:02:53.040 --> 3:02:55.400 just keep fighting them no matter what they throw you, 3:02:55.480 --> 3:02:57.879 if you just every every single time they hit you, 3:02:58.120 --> 3:03:00.800 if you just come back and keep fighting again, you 3:03:00.840 --> 3:03:03.800 can win. And this is this is the way that 3:03:03.840 --> 3:03:04.320 it happens. 3:03:05.920 --> 3:03:06.320 All right. 3:03:06.440 --> 3:03:08.400 Well, that's that's so good. That's a nice that's a 3:03:08.480 --> 3:03:13.400 nice note to end on. So everybody get out there and. 3:03:13.520 --> 3:03:16.280 Get nuked once and then everything's fine. 3:03:16.480 --> 3:03:19.400 Yeah, Yeah, get nuked once and you'll be okay. Like 3:03:19.520 --> 3:03:24.200 that scientist to drink the plutonium. It's surprisingly easy to 3:03:24.360 --> 3:03:28.359 not die when you get exposed to unbelievable quantities of radiation. 3:03:30.520 --> 3:03:36.040 That seems like a responsible note to end on. Hey, 3:03:36.120 --> 3:03:39.240 we'll be back Monday with more episodes every week from 3:03:39.280 --> 3:03:40.960 now until the heat death of the universe. 3:03:41.560 --> 3:03:44.040 It Could Happen here as a production of cool Zone Media. 3:03:44.120 --> 3:03:46.840 For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 3:03:46.840 --> 3:03:49.080 cool zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the 3:03:49.120 --> 3:03:52.640 iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. 3:03:52.920 --> 3:03:55.080 You can find sources for It Could Happen Here, updated 3:03:55.120 --> 3:03:57.240 monthly at cool zonemedia dot com. 3:03:57.280 --> 3:03:59.160 Slash sources, thanks for listening.