1 00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:02,200 Speaker 1: And so like when I was at the face man, 2 00:00:02,320 --> 00:00:05,360 Speaker 1: like I would get home from work maybe like at eight, 3 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:07,760 Speaker 1: you know, and sometimes I would be up at like 4 00:00:07,760 --> 00:00:09,840 Speaker 1: three or four o'clock in the morning working on a 5 00:00:09,880 --> 00:00:12,240 Speaker 1: freelance project and then have to be at office at ten, 6 00:00:12,920 --> 00:00:13,159 Speaker 1: you know. 7 00:00:13,280 --> 00:00:15,280 Speaker 2: But I was wired to work like that, and I 8 00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:16,760 Speaker 2: can do that, you know. 9 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:19,840 Speaker 1: And so imagine this. Imagine like you're working all day, 10 00:00:19,880 --> 00:00:22,520 Speaker 1: you have all of these deliverable scoring, back and forth meetings, 11 00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:24,800 Speaker 1: you do that, you come home, you got a wife, 12 00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 1: you got a new bond, and you deal with them, 13 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:30,400 Speaker 1: and then at ten o'clock you start working. You work 14 00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:33,880 Speaker 1: from ten to four, and then then you maybe sleep 15 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:35,920 Speaker 1: for like two hour, three hours, and you take it, 16 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:38,680 Speaker 1: you know, take a shower, you get up and leave over. 17 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:41,600 Speaker 2: But I did that many many days, you know, many 18 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:42,320 Speaker 2: many days. 19 00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:48,559 Speaker 3: Hey, everybody, welcome to another episode of button Nomics. I'm 20 00:00:48,560 --> 00:00:51,159 Speaker 3: your host, Brandon Butler, found in CEO of Butter atl 21 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:53,479 Speaker 3: And today we have a very special guest to hear 22 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:56,520 Speaker 3: with us, the one the only d O war Field 23 00:00:56,640 --> 00:00:59,360 Speaker 3: Fine Artists, founder and create, a director of Goldfinger and 24 00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:01,080 Speaker 3: just all around dope. I mean, we don't get a 25 00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:03,200 Speaker 3: dope in a second two. Not not that kind of dope, 26 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:05,080 Speaker 3: but the dope art that he makes all the time. 27 00:01:05,160 --> 00:01:07,000 Speaker 3: D How you doing, man, Man, I'm doing great. 28 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:07,800 Speaker 1: How are you? Man? 29 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:09,840 Speaker 4: If I was any better, i'd be you boss, Eh. 30 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:12,680 Speaker 1: Be careful what you wish for, hey man. 31 00:01:12,720 --> 00:01:13,880 Speaker 4: So look man dl Man. 32 00:01:13,880 --> 00:01:15,720 Speaker 3: For those that don't know, man, you have designed some 33 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:20,000 Speaker 3: of the most iconic album covers, CD covers, just artwork 34 00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:20,480 Speaker 3: with music. 35 00:01:20,520 --> 00:01:22,240 Speaker 4: Just give the folks a little rundown. 36 00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:24,440 Speaker 3: I know what it is, like, I'm gonna jump it 37 00:01:24,480 --> 00:01:27,080 Speaker 3: off outcast at Aliens amongst many others, but like, just 38 00:01:27,280 --> 00:01:30,160 Speaker 3: what are some of the other amazing covers and artists 39 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:30,840 Speaker 3: that you've worked with? 40 00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:34,360 Speaker 1: Uh yeah, I'll cash at Aliens is definitely one that's 41 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:36,280 Speaker 1: always on the tip of the tongue of people, you know, 42 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:38,800 Speaker 1: like when they find out that being a cover that 43 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:41,480 Speaker 1: I did and it was an inspiration for them, I 44 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:45,960 Speaker 1: would say, usher like Confessions eighty seven oh one here 45 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:50,480 Speaker 1: I stand Pink her first album project, you know, Goodie 46 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:55,640 Speaker 1: mob Man TI. You know that that's been a great one, 47 00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:56,960 Speaker 1: like all of it, you know, a bunch of his 48 00:01:57,120 --> 00:02:00,840 Speaker 1: projects actually, like from the very first album cover I'm 49 00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:05,680 Speaker 1: serious to the last album project which was called the 50 00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:11,560 Speaker 1: Libra Mac Ten, Michael Jackson remixed Suites Man Black Street, 51 00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:15,680 Speaker 1: Teddy Riley, TLC. How could I forget them? Like the 52 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:17,920 Speaker 1: fan mail was like my project with them, which was 53 00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:21,360 Speaker 1: definitely a fun project to work on. And yes, I 54 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:24,239 Speaker 1: mean it's been a slew of others, like different soundtracks 55 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:26,119 Speaker 1: and things like that. Like I did the Creed two 56 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:29,320 Speaker 1: soundtrack album cover, you know, which was a cool project 57 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:32,880 Speaker 1: working with Mike Will made it. Uh yeah, so that's 58 00:02:32,919 --> 00:02:33,520 Speaker 1: some of them. 59 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:35,400 Speaker 3: Just a quick rundown. Now I got to ask because 60 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:39,000 Speaker 3: again I'm huge Outcast fan. You know, no big Boy 61 00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:41,160 Speaker 3: personally hung out with him. I'm still met Dre yet, 62 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:43,440 Speaker 3: you know. But know those guys, like how do you 63 00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:45,600 Speaker 3: even start getting inspiration for something like that? Like just 64 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:47,760 Speaker 3: tell that story. They came to you, they said, Alien, 65 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:49,120 Speaker 3: what happens next? 66 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:51,200 Speaker 2: So at the time, I was the creative drug that 67 00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:52,160 Speaker 2: La Face Records. 68 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:56,000 Speaker 1: Uh, they hadn't landed on a title yet, you know, 69 00:02:56,080 --> 00:02:59,200 Speaker 1: even though the Elevator single had already hit, and so 70 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:02,760 Speaker 1: it was one we were in the office. My office 71 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:05,840 Speaker 1: was like right across from LA's office where La and 72 00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:09,760 Speaker 1: Baby Face office was. So whenever somebody came in or 73 00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:11,840 Speaker 1: came in town. Like I would get to see them 74 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:14,480 Speaker 1: sitting in the lobby, you know, from Branch to Tina 75 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 1: Marid to like whatever, which was super dope. But they 76 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:20,200 Speaker 1: came in and there was like we got the album 77 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:24,240 Speaker 1: title and LA said what and they said at aliens 78 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 1: and I was like, let's make a comic book, you know. 79 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:30,200 Speaker 1: And so that's really like how that whole genesis of 80 00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:33,760 Speaker 1: the idea started, you know. And what was great about 81 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:38,120 Speaker 1: that project is the full on, one hundred percent collaboration 82 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:42,840 Speaker 1: between you know, like myself, Big and Dre, you know, 83 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:46,520 Speaker 1: the designers and illustrators in my department, you know, and 84 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:49,080 Speaker 1: even Big Rule from the Dungeon family who actually wrote 85 00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:51,560 Speaker 1: the story. And it started from that, and you know, 86 00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:54,120 Speaker 1: like it was a lot of brainstorming, a lot of conversations, 87 00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:57,400 Speaker 1: a lot of dinners that raise on the river, you know, 88 00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:00,800 Speaker 1: back in the day, and that's how we developed it. 89 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:02,880 Speaker 1: And you know, it was so out of the box 90 00:04:02,920 --> 00:04:06,640 Speaker 1: at the time that it was one of those projects 91 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:09,840 Speaker 1: where La did not get involved, you know, because normally, 92 00:04:09,880 --> 00:04:11,720 Speaker 1: like he would have some say so and weigh in 93 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:14,480 Speaker 1: and things like that, but this time, like he didn't, 94 00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:17,719 Speaker 1: you know, he didn't get involved at all. And you know, 95 00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:21,839 Speaker 1: it was an R and B label that traditionally marketed 96 00:04:21,960 --> 00:04:25,600 Speaker 1: artists by a nice photo and then we're gonna put 97 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:27,320 Speaker 1: it out, you know. So this was the first time 98 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:29,760 Speaker 1: that they did something that was a departure of that, 99 00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:34,880 Speaker 1: and like the whole staff really wasn't on board with it, 100 00:04:34,920 --> 00:04:36,360 Speaker 1: cause they was like, we need to market them as 101 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:38,440 Speaker 1: an artist. This is their second album, Like we got 102 00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:41,400 Speaker 1: to show them that. And I thought was they got 103 00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:43,760 Speaker 1: to have the dopest image out and people are going 104 00:04:43,839 --> 00:04:46,359 Speaker 1: to remember that image and it has to elevate and 105 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:48,920 Speaker 1: master the music. And so you know, like I did 106 00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:51,720 Speaker 1: a little sketch a sketch in the conference room. I 107 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:54,080 Speaker 1: was like, it's gonna look like this, you know, and 108 00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:56,440 Speaker 1: so they was like okay, Yeah, So everybody bought in 109 00:04:56,520 --> 00:05:00,280 Speaker 1: at that point. And at the time, you know, like myself, 110 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:02,680 Speaker 1: one of the designers that worked for me, his name 111 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:06,200 Speaker 1: is Nigel Sawyer. Another designer was Vince Robinson. 112 00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:06,640 Speaker 5: Uh. 113 00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:09,360 Speaker 1: We were reading like a lot of uh comic books 114 00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:12,640 Speaker 1: at that time, and specifically like Todd McFarland, you know, 115 00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:15,240 Speaker 1: And so I found an illustrator that worked for Todd 116 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:18,800 Speaker 1: McFarland Uh. His name is Frank Gomez, and I actually 117 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:23,839 Speaker 1: had him do the final illustration based on my concept sketches. 118 00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:29,039 Speaker 3: I remember that Spawn Spawn Yeah yeah, yeah, comic books, man, Yeah. 119 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:31,440 Speaker 1: And so you know, like you know, I'm an artist 120 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:33,919 Speaker 1: and I'm a painter, and I've done illustrations, you know, 121 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:36,600 Speaker 1: for a bunch of magazines from Playboy and Houser Bush, 122 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:38,680 Speaker 1: et cetera. So I could have did the cover, but 123 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:42,800 Speaker 1: I wanted like that real authentic, uh comic book style 124 00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:45,840 Speaker 1: aesthetic that was popular in the nineties and still today. 125 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:49,520 Speaker 4: That was Image comics if I remember correctly. Yeah, man, 126 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:50,400 Speaker 4: you're like a You're. 127 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:53,480 Speaker 1: Like a Wikipedia of uh comic book. 128 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 3: And man, look, I will say I remember when that 129 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:57,839 Speaker 3: came out. I was big in the comic books. Yeah. 130 00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:00,120 Speaker 3: I even remember that that album it came out. I'm 131 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:01,400 Speaker 3: not gonna say who, but there was a cat I 132 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:03,200 Speaker 3: used to go to the high school with who was 133 00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:06,200 Speaker 3: internal La Face Records, and I remember he brought a 134 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:08,520 Speaker 3: bunch of the albums the school and was selling them. 135 00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:12,760 Speaker 3: And I know it was special because when you open 136 00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:15,040 Speaker 3: up the CD case on the album, I actually still 137 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:17,240 Speaker 3: have the other CD. It was like, you know, for 138 00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:19,960 Speaker 3: promo use only on it, and I remember, like literally 139 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:21,240 Speaker 3: had a bunch of them and that was how we 140 00:06:21,279 --> 00:06:23,000 Speaker 3: got it at school, you know, back at. 141 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:23,840 Speaker 4: Rita and back in the day. 142 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:24,880 Speaker 1: That's hilarious. You know. 143 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:26,840 Speaker 3: One of the things also interesting about those Outcasts, those 144 00:06:26,839 --> 00:06:30,040 Speaker 3: Outcast albums, because I actually have one of Dre's Lady 145 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:32,800 Speaker 3: Lava paintings at home. That's one of my favorite paintings. Actually, 146 00:06:33,080 --> 00:06:35,240 Speaker 3: when the first Outcast album came out, they were selling 147 00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:37,159 Speaker 3: they was selling them inside and so I sent in 148 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:39,880 Speaker 3: the money order and I actually got back a sign numbers. 149 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:42,400 Speaker 2: And that's one hilarious man. I mean, I even remembered 150 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:43,320 Speaker 2: like that whole. 151 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:44,880 Speaker 1: Process because they were like, yeah, yeah, we want to 152 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:47,400 Speaker 1: sell something, and Dre's thing and so you know, like 153 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:49,960 Speaker 1: I had to go through the process with him, you know, 154 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:52,440 Speaker 1: and his uh and his mom. You know. Okay, well 155 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:54,520 Speaker 1: we got to get a higher risk, you know, four 156 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:58,120 Speaker 1: by five color transparency shot of the artwork. Then we're 157 00:06:58,120 --> 00:06:59,960 Speaker 1: gonna do a drum scan of that. And that's kind 158 00:06:59,960 --> 00:07:02,320 Speaker 1: of like the how the process goes to take it 159 00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:06,480 Speaker 1: to actually find art reproduction, you know. But I remember 160 00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:09,720 Speaker 1: all of that, and what's funny is, man, maybe like 161 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:14,160 Speaker 1: within the last two years, Like, I found like one 162 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:17,160 Speaker 1: of those transparencies and I and I you know, and 163 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:20,360 Speaker 1: I sent it to you know, his manager. You follow 164 00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:23,080 Speaker 1: felt like yes. I was like hey, because she had 165 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:25,080 Speaker 1: asked about I was like nah na and literally like 166 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:27,840 Speaker 1: I was going through some old folders, like through my 167 00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:30,000 Speaker 1: flat files and I was like, oh damn, you know, 168 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:31,200 Speaker 1: and I found it. 169 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:33,840 Speaker 3: So, you know, did you all ever collaborate because I 170 00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:35,760 Speaker 3: know what Dre used to always do those illustrations. They 171 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:38,000 Speaker 3: would go on the CDs correct and then you know, 172 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:39,600 Speaker 3: you would have the insights. So was there any kind 173 00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:41,640 Speaker 3: of collaboration between you and him or did he like 174 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:43,240 Speaker 3: build off of what you would kind of designed for 175 00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:43,640 Speaker 3: that coming. 176 00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:44,800 Speaker 4: Was it just two separate things. 177 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:46,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, it was two separate things. And even if I 178 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:49,080 Speaker 1: gave him direction, I would probably be sure that he 179 00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:52,320 Speaker 1: wouldn't have taken you. I can't I don't know that 180 00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:54,000 Speaker 1: for sure, but I think that he would have kind 181 00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:56,840 Speaker 1: of did his own thing. And so literally, like you know, 182 00:07:57,280 --> 00:07:59,640 Speaker 1: we always wanted to be like what he was feeling 183 00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:01,600 Speaker 1: and what was inspiring him at the time, so we 184 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:05,000 Speaker 1: didn't need to be heavy handed. The only time only 185 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:09,200 Speaker 1: time where it'd be issues really and make things cumbersome 186 00:08:09,320 --> 00:08:13,160 Speaker 1: is when the art work doesn't fit the format, you know. 187 00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:17,040 Speaker 1: And so for instance, like like when Big came in 188 00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:21,720 Speaker 1: with the illustration for a Quemini, it's like, okay, you 189 00:08:21,760 --> 00:08:24,240 Speaker 1: didn't you know, you had an illustrated to an illustration. 190 00:08:24,520 --> 00:08:28,640 Speaker 1: That's fine, but it's not square, you know, and we 191 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:31,480 Speaker 1: it would be better if it was formatted to be square, 192 00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:34,320 Speaker 1: you know, and it was kind of formatted vertically, you know. 193 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:38,280 Speaker 1: So you just so without damaging the integrity of the art, 194 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:39,680 Speaker 1: You're like, Okay, what do we got to do to 195 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:43,200 Speaker 1: really make that work? And so like that was random situations. 196 00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:47,120 Speaker 1: If I would have been involved in the very beginning 197 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:50,960 Speaker 1: of the process, it would have been a stronger cover 198 00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:54,240 Speaker 1: based on the dimensions of how it needed to be 199 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:57,600 Speaker 1: versus making something narrow fit in the box. You know. 200 00:08:57,720 --> 00:09:01,400 Speaker 1: So like those are things that kind of haunt me, 201 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:03,760 Speaker 1: even though it's like, you know, it ain't that big 202 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:05,480 Speaker 1: of a deal, but with me, I'm like, damn, if 203 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:07,560 Speaker 1: you just would have made that shit square, you know. 204 00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:12,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, out of all those different covers, I mean, 205 00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:15,360 Speaker 3: was there anyone aside from that really jumps out? I Mean, 206 00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:16,680 Speaker 3: even when I think about it, I didn't know you 207 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:19,200 Speaker 3: did TLC fan mail And I mean that's what, like 208 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:22,200 Speaker 3: the biggest selling female group of all time like that 209 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:25,960 Speaker 3: at that specific album, over ten million copies. Like what's 210 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:28,200 Speaker 3: what's that like being a part of a project like that. 211 00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:31,120 Speaker 1: Well, you know, one thing about le Face is it 212 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:34,080 Speaker 1: was definitely like an artist and a music driven company, 213 00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:37,160 Speaker 1: and so when you would hear the music, you would 214 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:41,480 Speaker 1: be so inspired and it would just want it would 215 00:09:41,559 --> 00:09:44,440 Speaker 1: make you want to do great things, you know, and 216 00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:47,280 Speaker 1: you know, like when you're trying to do something great, 217 00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:49,720 Speaker 1: like I think you really as an artist, you don't 218 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:51,960 Speaker 1: know what great is. You know, you just want to 219 00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:55,199 Speaker 1: like go and create and like and make something that's substantial, 220 00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:58,360 Speaker 1: you know. But I was never really tracing greatness, but 221 00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:02,720 Speaker 1: I definitely wanted it to visually disrupt what was going 222 00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:05,880 Speaker 1: on at the time. And so like the whole the 223 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:10,160 Speaker 1: backstory behind that was probably two years before the album 224 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:13,680 Speaker 1: even came out. Like I had a like American Photo 225 00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:16,199 Speaker 1: magazine and on the cover it was an image of 226 00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:19,520 Speaker 1: Naomi Campbell that was shot by seb Jeniac and she 227 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:21,640 Speaker 1: was you know, very you know, she had the silver 228 00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:24,240 Speaker 1: makeup on Android style and I just tore it out 229 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:25,960 Speaker 1: and I just had it on my bulletin board in 230 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:28,360 Speaker 1: my office and I told La, I was like, man, 231 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:31,000 Speaker 1: with TLC does their next cover, we need to shoot 232 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:34,559 Speaker 1: them like this, you know. And so then fast forward, 233 00:10:35,559 --> 00:10:37,480 Speaker 1: you know, like they're doing the music, you know, and 234 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:41,080 Speaker 1: Dallas is in the zone where it's very very like 235 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:44,959 Speaker 1: Dallas was on some AI Tech Techie ship before Ai 236 00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:47,600 Speaker 1: and Techie even hit with the album. Yeah, you know, 237 00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:51,120 Speaker 1: and so even like the character Vicki that's the narrator 238 00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:53,280 Speaker 1: to the album, like the Vicki was actually going to 239 00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:55,360 Speaker 1: be really become a part of the group because of 240 00:10:55,679 --> 00:10:58,360 Speaker 1: you know, things that was going on with the girls 241 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:00,559 Speaker 1: and just a little internal beef and things like that. 242 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:00,920 Speaker 5: You know. 243 00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:05,439 Speaker 1: So the synthetic look of everything and the android look 244 00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:08,960 Speaker 1: of everything, it just really really made sense. And you know, 245 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:13,200 Speaker 1: La wasn't really like one hundred percent on board, you know, 246 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:16,480 Speaker 1: because it wasn't like things like that were like not 247 00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:21,240 Speaker 1: in his I wouldn't say in his wheelhouse, but like 248 00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:22,960 Speaker 1: there were not things that he was just kind of 249 00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:25,080 Speaker 1: used to, even though like he had a lot of 250 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:27,120 Speaker 1: style and you know, and he had you know, but 251 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:30,480 Speaker 1: it was science fiction shit, like I would probably say 252 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:35,520 Speaker 1: that that wasn't you know, he's more luxury than science fiction. No, okay, 253 00:11:35,679 --> 00:11:38,760 Speaker 1: but the girls were like action figures, so you could 254 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:42,080 Speaker 1: you couldn't push them too far creatively. And so what 255 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:44,160 Speaker 1: I did I took like some old photos and I 256 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:47,080 Speaker 1: mocked up a cover that felt like that cover, you know, 257 00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:51,520 Speaker 1: and I had some mockups created with the lenticular flip 258 00:11:51,520 --> 00:11:54,640 Speaker 1: flop look, and so I met I had like four 259 00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:56,800 Speaker 1: of them made, and I sent them to all of 260 00:11:56,840 --> 00:12:00,240 Speaker 1: the girls, right, and so then they was like, they 261 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:02,160 Speaker 1: hit LA, It's like, yo, is this our album? It's 262 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:04,280 Speaker 1: gonna be our album cover? Like they were super excited, 263 00:12:04,559 --> 00:12:06,160 Speaker 1: and he was like, what are they talking about? And 264 00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:07,760 Speaker 1: I showed him, you know, so I kind of like 265 00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:10,520 Speaker 1: sold it to the girls and then he kind of 266 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:12,720 Speaker 1: you know, like he jumped on board with it. But 267 00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:14,520 Speaker 1: it was really that, But it was from something that 268 00:12:14,559 --> 00:12:16,680 Speaker 1: I seen like two to three years before that. I 269 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:18,480 Speaker 1: was like, this is how we need to portray them 270 00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:21,000 Speaker 1: when they came out, because you know, the first album 271 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:25,520 Speaker 1: cover was them, you know, almost like Playhouse, you know, 272 00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:29,320 Speaker 1: dressed you know, in the start that they were dressed 273 00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:32,320 Speaker 1: like kind of like a female bell bib devaux. You know, 274 00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:36,960 Speaker 1: very cartoony. The second album was them the Crazy Sexy 275 00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:39,000 Speaker 1: Crews six Blue Red, which you know, I thought it 276 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:42,320 Speaker 1: was a great a great photo, great album cover. So 277 00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:44,480 Speaker 1: I was like, what's the next elevated level of that? 278 00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:48,880 Speaker 1: And what we landed on? I think, what was that, 279 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:50,079 Speaker 1: you know for the girls? 280 00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:52,679 Speaker 3: Now, just even from a creative standpoint where you being 281 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:55,439 Speaker 3: like a fine artist, I'm really interested to understand what 282 00:12:55,520 --> 00:12:58,040 Speaker 3: was it like, you know, designing those things from a 283 00:12:58,080 --> 00:13:01,480 Speaker 3: technical standpoint, right, Like y'all weren't using photoshop, you know, 284 00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:03,440 Speaker 3: so what how how do you actually come up with 285 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:06,720 Speaker 3: those kind of designs and make especially something is forward 286 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:09,000 Speaker 3: thinking as you know as a fan mail? 287 00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:11,960 Speaker 2: Actually, yeah, so we were using photoshop then, you know. 288 00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:17,319 Speaker 1: But but man, like my my intro at LA Face 289 00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:23,320 Speaker 1: started when we were still using floppy disk, right, and 290 00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:26,959 Speaker 1: then I remember like when syd Quest drives came you know. 291 00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:30,840 Speaker 2: And then I remember when came out, you know, and 292 00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:31,800 Speaker 2: I remember like. 293 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:34,720 Speaker 1: We could do something, and the file is saving and 294 00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:37,240 Speaker 1: saving and saving and you there for thirty minutes watch 295 00:13:37,280 --> 00:13:40,040 Speaker 1: it and then it crashes, you know. So I remember 296 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:41,920 Speaker 1: going through all of that, all of those hurdles. But 297 00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:44,440 Speaker 1: you know, I think A thing that helped me was 298 00:13:44,679 --> 00:13:48,800 Speaker 1: like early on, like before my Face days, like even 299 00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:52,800 Speaker 1: in college, like I was already working commercially as an illustrator, 300 00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:55,440 Speaker 1: you know, and so you know, I would be in 301 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:57,840 Speaker 1: situations where I would have to ship my painting out 302 00:13:58,200 --> 00:13:59,880 Speaker 1: and I would be in situations where I would have 303 00:13:59,920 --> 00:14:03,160 Speaker 1: to have the paintings shot and then I would ship 304 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:06,640 Speaker 1: the transparencies out and they would scan from the transparencies. 305 00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:11,000 Speaker 1: So I understood like how to get through like those 306 00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:14,360 Speaker 1: type of hurdles if we encountered them, you know, but 307 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:19,320 Speaker 1: luckily we had photo shot, you know, luckily because but yeah, 308 00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:22,480 Speaker 1: but I do remember like those the painful early days, 309 00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:26,360 Speaker 1: Like the very very first project that I did full 310 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:30,360 Speaker 1: of Face was in the Hood by Donnelle Jones, like 311 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:34,080 Speaker 1: a single, yeah, that was from his first album. And 312 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:37,800 Speaker 1: they didn't even like they didn't even have computers at 313 00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:41,040 Speaker 1: the face and so I was working for Tommy Boy 314 00:14:41,240 --> 00:14:44,160 Speaker 1: and I had a Mac and it was like I mean, 315 00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:44,600 Speaker 1: like the. 316 00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:49,880 Speaker 6: First almost it looked like it looked like an air fryar, yeah, 317 00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:53,000 Speaker 6: you know, And I remember like my wife packing her 318 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:54,840 Speaker 6: because I think I moved here maybe like. 319 00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:57,800 Speaker 1: Two weeks or three weeks before she did, and I 320 00:14:57,800 --> 00:15:00,040 Speaker 1: remember her having to ship my computer down and I 321 00:14:59,880 --> 00:15:02,280 Speaker 1: was working because I was just running back and forth 322 00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:04,880 Speaker 1: to Kinkos from the office. And so then you know, 323 00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:07,640 Speaker 1: they she shipped my computer and I had my computer 324 00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:10,000 Speaker 1: set up in the hotel because I didn't even have 325 00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:12,280 Speaker 1: an office at La Face yet. And so you know, 326 00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:14,840 Speaker 1: that was like that was those early days man, of 327 00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:16,720 Speaker 1: just just making it happen. 328 00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:30,640 Speaker 3: How that whole connection come together with you at La Face. 329 00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:32,320 Speaker 3: I mean, that's again, that's one of those icon of 330 00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:35,480 Speaker 3: goess in Atlanta history. There's so many amazing people that 331 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:37,400 Speaker 3: were kind of like birthed from that. I think even like, 332 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:39,320 Speaker 3: you know, when you think about on the tech side, 333 00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:41,880 Speaker 3: we call like the PayPal mafia, right, Like all these 334 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:44,600 Speaker 3: guys Elon Musk and all these other amazing founders came 335 00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:46,960 Speaker 3: out of PayPal, And I think about the Face Kiming 336 00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:49,640 Speaker 3: the same way. There's all these amazing artists, you know, creatives, 337 00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:51,960 Speaker 3: people like yourself, Like, but how'd you even make that 338 00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:52,840 Speaker 3: connection in the first place? 339 00:15:52,880 --> 00:15:53,080 Speaker 1: Face? 340 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:57,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, So, man, I was always a fan of La. 341 00:15:57,320 --> 00:15:59,960 Speaker 1: Reading Baby Face as a producers. I was a fan 342 00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:03,240 Speaker 1: another deal, you know, and so I always loved the 343 00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:05,440 Speaker 1: things that they did. And so this was going back 344 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:09,200 Speaker 1: to me being in college even maybe you know, yeah, 345 00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:11,480 Speaker 1: like they like they like the deal was putting out 346 00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:12,680 Speaker 1: albums music when I was. 347 00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:14,920 Speaker 2: In high school. So I was always very very. 348 00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:17,160 Speaker 1: Familiar with that. And so it was a few things 349 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:22,280 Speaker 1: that happened. So one like I remember the first time 350 00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:26,520 Speaker 1: that I heard players ball in Saint Louisa, and when 351 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:31,320 Speaker 1: I heard the sound of Outcast, and it was nothing 352 00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:35,440 Speaker 1: like I had ever heard. I mean, you could almost 353 00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:37,080 Speaker 1: say it kind of reminds you a little bit of 354 00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:40,920 Speaker 1: Dos Effects, but it wasn't. It wasn't gimmicky, you know 355 00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:43,920 Speaker 1: what I mean. It was just it was just super dope. 356 00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:45,760 Speaker 1: So I heard that. And then when I found out 357 00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:49,480 Speaker 1: that La Reid and Babyface was like they were signed 358 00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:51,360 Speaker 1: to their label and they were a part of that, 359 00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:53,480 Speaker 1: and I knew the history of that. I just started 360 00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:56,520 Speaker 1: thinking to myself, man, like I got to move to Atlanta. Okay, 361 00:16:57,240 --> 00:16:59,840 Speaker 1: all right. So at the same time, like I had 362 00:16:59,840 --> 00:17:03,560 Speaker 1: a a pro day for football in Saint Louis, Okay. 363 00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:07,919 Speaker 1: Then from the pro day, I got invited to like 364 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:12,320 Speaker 1: an NFL like free agent combine multi you know multi 365 00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:16,159 Speaker 1: combine down in Atlanta. Uh, I told one of my 366 00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:20,760 Speaker 1: friends from middle school, high school that I was coming down. 367 00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:22,399 Speaker 1: She's like, will you come down? I want to introduce 368 00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:25,080 Speaker 1: you to people on the face. I'm like, great. That 369 00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:29,480 Speaker 1: person's name is Travis Charmont, who actually works for iHeart now. Okay, 370 00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:33,240 Speaker 1: but yeah, but we've been friends since since middle school. 371 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:35,400 Speaker 1: We won like the we were voted like best dads 372 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:39,359 Speaker 1: is in middle school. Okay, but but yeah, so came down. 373 00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:43,040 Speaker 1: I ended up meeting, you know, through her, the Vet Singletary, 374 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:46,919 Speaker 1: who was in charge of marketing Full of Face, you know, 375 00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:49,199 Speaker 1: after the football stuff worked out, you know, like I 376 00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:52,600 Speaker 1: ended up having an opportunity to play in Canada, passed 377 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:55,280 Speaker 1: that opportunity up to actually take a job in New 378 00:17:55,359 --> 00:17:58,560 Speaker 1: York working for Tommy Boy Records, all right, And so 379 00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:00,760 Speaker 1: while I was there, like I kept in contact with 380 00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:04,080 Speaker 1: the Vet randomly because when I met her, I was like, yeah, 381 00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:06,280 Speaker 1: I would love to be all was creative director whatever. 382 00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:08,560 Speaker 1: And when I said it, like I didn't even really 383 00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:11,119 Speaker 1: know the full scope of what a creative director was, 384 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:14,080 Speaker 1: but I just knew that I wanted to beat that 385 00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:17,840 Speaker 1: for this label with these artists, you know, because I 386 00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:21,360 Speaker 1: was already refilliar with obviously Babyface and La Reid. 387 00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:24,480 Speaker 2: I was very familiar with Tony Braxton. I was very 388 00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:27,600 Speaker 2: familiar with TLC so and then I was like, okay, 389 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:28,920 Speaker 2: and y'all got out casts too. 390 00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:30,720 Speaker 1: Yeah. So I just felt that it was going to 391 00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:35,200 Speaker 1: be great things. And so maybe like almost a year later, 392 00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:37,760 Speaker 1: you know, the VET called me at the office and 393 00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:39,280 Speaker 1: she was like, do you still want to be our 394 00:18:39,280 --> 00:18:40,160 Speaker 1: creative director? 395 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:45,400 Speaker 2: I was like absolutely, So she flew me down to interview. 396 00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:48,440 Speaker 2: Had a great interview, Like I interviewed with Dorsey, Guy, 397 00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:50,200 Speaker 2: Scott Folks, Dorsey. 398 00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:54,080 Speaker 1: I really didn't have a conversation with La or Face, 399 00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:56,800 Speaker 1: but I interviewed with them, Darry Langfort, it was like 400 00:18:56,840 --> 00:18:59,639 Speaker 1: a few people that I met with and then I 401 00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:02,000 Speaker 1: flew I did my file up a few days later, 402 00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:04,480 Speaker 1: and they was like, yeah, you know what, they loved you, 403 00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:07,960 Speaker 1: and they loved your creativity and your energy, but they 404 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:11,160 Speaker 1: just felt that you were too young. And I was like, man, 405 00:19:11,359 --> 00:19:13,679 Speaker 1: it's no way I'm not getting this job, you know, 406 00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:16,280 Speaker 1: because in my mind I was telling my wife, Hey, 407 00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:19,679 Speaker 1: start packing, you know, and started finding like restaurants that 408 00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:22,359 Speaker 1: you might like, and you know in Atlanta, because that's 409 00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:22,920 Speaker 1: where we're headed. 410 00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:24,480 Speaker 4: Yeah, so when. 411 00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:26,919 Speaker 1: They told me that, man, I was like, damn, what 412 00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:29,960 Speaker 1: am I going to do? And so the competitive side 413 00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:34,640 Speaker 1: of me was like, you will not lose this opportunity. 414 00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:36,960 Speaker 1: So that same day that I talked to her at 415 00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:40,000 Speaker 1: the office, I went home from work sick. On the 416 00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:42,840 Speaker 1: way home, I stopped by a prop store. I bought 417 00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:48,320 Speaker 1: like fake dynamite, clay wires, a clock, a bunch of stuff, 418 00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:51,240 Speaker 1: and I assembled it and made it look like a bomb. Okay. 419 00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:55,120 Speaker 1: And so then I cut letters out of a magazine 420 00:19:55,280 --> 00:19:57,159 Speaker 1: and I put that together to make it look like 421 00:19:57,200 --> 00:20:01,240 Speaker 1: a ransom note. And I I packed it all together, 422 00:20:01,359 --> 00:20:04,560 Speaker 1: and the ransom notes said higher deal work for that's 423 00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:07,280 Speaker 1: the creative director or else took. 424 00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:09,680 Speaker 2: That fedexit to LA read okay. 425 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:14,920 Speaker 1: An hour after they got it, his assistant called and said, 426 00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:17,960 Speaker 1: LA said, if he has to send a bomb down 427 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:19,120 Speaker 1: here to get the job. 428 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:22,320 Speaker 2: Hire his ass And so that is how I got. 429 00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:23,960 Speaker 1: To the face. 430 00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:26,960 Speaker 4: Okay. So that's crazy, first of all. 431 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:29,879 Speaker 3: Second of all, for those listening, please do not bond 432 00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:35,240 Speaker 3: that bump today job. No, you know, that's funny. That 433 00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:36,760 Speaker 3: reminds me the how I first same we got in 434 00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:39,560 Speaker 3: the radio. I remember, I want to work in radio, 435 00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:41,959 Speaker 3: and it was the same thing. I grew up kind 436 00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:43,720 Speaker 3: of listening to Ryan Cameron, and I said, you know what, 437 00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:45,600 Speaker 3: I want to work for that guy one day. And 438 00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:47,960 Speaker 3: one day he came on air and said, I'm looking 439 00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:51,080 Speaker 3: for interns. If you want to be my intern, mail 440 00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:54,000 Speaker 3: me a copy of the resume, not email, mail it. 441 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:55,960 Speaker 3: And so I said the same thing to myself. I said, Yo, 442 00:20:56,280 --> 00:20:58,560 Speaker 3: everybody's gonna email and their resume to him, like, there's 443 00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:00,560 Speaker 3: no way he's going to see my resume. What can 444 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:02,240 Speaker 3: I do? So at that time, he was at ninety 445 00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:04,480 Speaker 3: seven point five. So what I did was I was 446 00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:07,040 Speaker 3: at I was at a job. I went down to 447 00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:10,560 Speaker 3: the mail room. I got ninety seven envelopes. I made 448 00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:13,720 Speaker 3: ninety seven copies of my resume. I got ninety seven 449 00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:15,439 Speaker 3: of their stamps because I didn't have the money to 450 00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:18,119 Speaker 3: pay for it. And I took ninety seven copies of 451 00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:21,679 Speaker 3: my resume and mailed them through US snail mail to 452 00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:25,080 Speaker 3: Ryan Cameront the radio station. Probably about four or five 453 00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:27,320 Speaker 3: days later, he gives me a call live on air 454 00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:31,000 Speaker 3: and he's like, Brandon, same thing, you got the job. 455 00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:34,560 Speaker 3: Stop mailing me your resume. And I said I can't, 456 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:38,080 Speaker 3: but I'll be up there on Wednesday, and even and 457 00:21:38,119 --> 00:21:38,560 Speaker 3: even when. 458 00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:40,440 Speaker 4: I got up there, like my resume was like still 459 00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:42,280 Speaker 4: coming in like two or three time for like a 460 00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:44,320 Speaker 4: couple of days. You know. But that's what it is. 461 00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:44,439 Speaker 3: Man. 462 00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:46,520 Speaker 4: When you see something you want, you got to figure 463 00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:47,560 Speaker 4: out to get it right. 464 00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:51,040 Speaker 1: Man. Like one of one of my favorite quotes is 465 00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:55,040 Speaker 1: about Hannibal Barker and it says, we will either find 466 00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:55,920 Speaker 1: a way to make one. 467 00:21:56,119 --> 00:21:59,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, that's a Clark Atlanta model came from 468 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:01,160 Speaker 3: it came yea, it came from Hannibal. 469 00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:03,800 Speaker 1: Yeah. But that's that's what it is, because I think 470 00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:05,919 Speaker 1: it's situations like that, like you can go in the 471 00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:08,359 Speaker 1: corner and you can cower and you can cry, but 472 00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:11,600 Speaker 1: nobody cares about your excuses, you know what I mean. 473 00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:14,879 Speaker 1: They just care about the end result. And to me, 474 00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:17,000 Speaker 1: the end result is what am I going to do 475 00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:19,040 Speaker 1: to get that job? You know, like like what does 476 00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:21,680 Speaker 1: it take? Like what type of dudes got? Like what 477 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:24,880 Speaker 1: do I gotta do? You know? And even like when 478 00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:28,440 Speaker 1: even when I, you know, got hired by Tommy Boy 479 00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:30,960 Speaker 1: when I was you know, the clothing designer for the 480 00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:33,560 Speaker 1: Oak Tree, you know, like what I had to do 481 00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:35,720 Speaker 1: to actually get that, you know what I mean. And 482 00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:39,000 Speaker 1: so it was There's been several opportunities where like I 483 00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:42,679 Speaker 1: had to compete to prove my value, and you know, 484 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:44,440 Speaker 1: I would say I had the grit and the mental 485 00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:46,919 Speaker 1: toughness to step up to the challenge versus you know, 486 00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:51,879 Speaker 1: getting in my feelings, Like the opportunity to design Michael 487 00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:55,600 Speaker 1: Jackson's remix suite from Motown after he passed, you know, 488 00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:57,920 Speaker 1: and I had, you know, like that. It was like, hey, 489 00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:00,040 Speaker 1: we like, we love your stuff, and I thought I 490 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:02,200 Speaker 1: had it, but we're also you know, you're gonna have 491 00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:04,880 Speaker 1: to compete against other people. I was like bringing yeah, 492 00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:09,000 Speaker 1: and so playing sports the adversity that you learn and 493 00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:12,760 Speaker 1: how you just always have to be willing to total line. 494 00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:15,639 Speaker 1: You know. Definitely his benefited me as a creative and 495 00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:16,760 Speaker 1: as an artist. Man. 496 00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:19,480 Speaker 3: Look, man, I don't know if you really wanted to 497 00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:23,200 Speaker 3: go to the league, but I'm really glad that you 498 00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:24,920 Speaker 3: ended up going a different route because we wouldn't have 499 00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:27,159 Speaker 3: got some of these iconic things if none you know 500 00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:29,320 Speaker 3: what I'm saying. Were you were you doing creative work 501 00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:31,080 Speaker 3: in college while you were playing ball or how did 502 00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:31,600 Speaker 3: that come about? 503 00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:35,280 Speaker 1: Like so it was a guy that graduated two years 504 00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:38,199 Speaker 1: before I did shout out to Doug Camp. You know, 505 00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:41,760 Speaker 1: he works for More. He's a creative director for More 506 00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:45,639 Speaker 1: in Chicago right now, More Agency. But yeah, so he 507 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:48,640 Speaker 1: he got his he was alignment on the team, got 508 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:52,720 Speaker 1: his degree in advertising. Knew I was an artist and illustrator, 509 00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:55,200 Speaker 1: and he was like, man, I met this artist rep 510 00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:57,240 Speaker 1: and I told her about you. She wants to see 511 00:23:57,280 --> 00:23:59,600 Speaker 1: your stuff. And I'm like, great, you know, so I 512 00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:02,040 Speaker 1: set them stuff. But she's like, I'd like to represent you. 513 00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:04,320 Speaker 1: I was like, that's great because. 514 00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:06,760 Speaker 2: You know, being a college student, you broke yeah, you know, 515 00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:07,640 Speaker 2: not anymore. 516 00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:13,119 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, but but yeah, so yes, so 517 00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:15,760 Speaker 1: she was representing me as an artist, you know, like 518 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:18,760 Speaker 1: starting my junior year, in my senior my last year 519 00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:21,199 Speaker 1: of college. And so when I was in school, I 520 00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:23,879 Speaker 1: mean I was like it was crazy. I played football, 521 00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:28,119 Speaker 1: ran track full time student, but I would also be 522 00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:32,760 Speaker 1: doing freelance projects for like, you know, major magazines, major 523 00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:35,959 Speaker 1: advertising agencies and things like that, you know, And I 524 00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:39,159 Speaker 1: mean I had multiple scenarios where you know, like we 525 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:42,040 Speaker 1: were flying out, you know for a football game, and 526 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:45,120 Speaker 1: I was dropping my art off in the sports information 527 00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:49,840 Speaker 1: office and the football secretary would be packaging my artwork up, 528 00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:51,760 Speaker 1: taking it to fed X and shipping it out to 529 00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:54,320 Speaker 1: the client, you know. And so I was just like 530 00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:57,520 Speaker 1: I always did both, you know, And I'm blessed that 531 00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:00,320 Speaker 1: I've had people in my life to speak my name 532 00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:02,680 Speaker 1: and rooms to give me opportunities when I'm not there. 533 00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:05,480 Speaker 3: Yeah. Now there is a business side to all this 534 00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:07,240 Speaker 3: kind of stuff. So when these brands come to you, 535 00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:09,440 Speaker 3: when these artists come to you, like how do you 536 00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:10,640 Speaker 3: kind of go from zero to one? 537 00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:12,080 Speaker 4: Like how do you find inspiration? 538 00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:13,960 Speaker 3: Like you talked about, you know, seeing that art work 539 00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:16,439 Speaker 3: that kind of inspire the TLC project? But just as 540 00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:18,800 Speaker 3: an artist when you're giving a new project, like how 541 00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:20,760 Speaker 3: do you kind of approach it? I know everything is different, 542 00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:22,680 Speaker 3: but you know, how does your process kind of work 543 00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:23,800 Speaker 3: from that standpoint when. 544 00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:25,520 Speaker 1: I work with an artist? You know, one of the 545 00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:28,480 Speaker 1: things when it gets down to packaging and branding, like 546 00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:30,720 Speaker 1: it's all about them, you know, it's never about me. 547 00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:33,480 Speaker 1: And so you know a lot of it stars from 548 00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:36,760 Speaker 1: just listening, you know to like what were you looking at? 549 00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:39,520 Speaker 1: What magazines? Where you reading? Did you go see this movie? 550 00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:41,840 Speaker 1: Like did that have anything to do with track number two, 551 00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:44,560 Speaker 1: you know, like like why do you want to do this? 552 00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:48,320 Speaker 1: Like what is this album about? Why should people care 553 00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:50,760 Speaker 1: about this album? You know? Well, how do you want 554 00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:53,239 Speaker 1: people to feel when they see it? You know? And 555 00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:56,000 Speaker 1: so I do a deep dive in trying to get 556 00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:58,960 Speaker 1: answers to all of those questions, you know, and then 557 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:02,119 Speaker 1: we start, you know, and so you know, after you 558 00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:05,720 Speaker 1: get that information, then you have to, you know, really 559 00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:07,320 Speaker 1: start getting down to tactics. 560 00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:10,679 Speaker 2: Okay, who's the photographer, what's the wardrobe? 561 00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:14,720 Speaker 1: Do we need to find a location, what's the timeline, 562 00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:19,280 Speaker 1: and more importantly, what's the budget. Yeah, because all of 563 00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:23,679 Speaker 1: the before actually hits you know, that's where the rubber 564 00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:26,160 Speaker 1: meets the road if Dan got the budget to do it. 565 00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:29,520 Speaker 1: And so it really starts like that. And with most 566 00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:31,760 Speaker 1: of the artists that I work with, like I always 567 00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:34,920 Speaker 1: try to push them out of their comfort zone, and 568 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:37,640 Speaker 1: sometimes like their comfort zone is what they have, what 569 00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:40,080 Speaker 1: they had been thinking that it was going to be. 570 00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:42,600 Speaker 1: And so I look at us like, yeah, like that's 571 00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:46,760 Speaker 1: a good idea, but we could also challenge it with 572 00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:50,600 Speaker 1: this idea because you got to have two or three things. 573 00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:55,919 Speaker 1: The challenge to make the best creative guest or option 574 00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:58,560 Speaker 1: for an artist. You know, sometimes you can hit it 575 00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:01,000 Speaker 1: out the park from the very very one, you know. 576 00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:03,400 Speaker 1: Like I've had situations like that. 577 00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:05,919 Speaker 2: Like like we're ushers here. 578 00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:08,959 Speaker 1: I stand, like the very first album cover that I 579 00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:10,639 Speaker 1: did and I sent them, I was like, this is 580 00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:13,080 Speaker 1: what it needs to be, and he was like, man, 581 00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:16,600 Speaker 1: I don't know. I did like maybe sixty other versions 582 00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:18,960 Speaker 1: and we ended up picking the very first cover that 583 00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:21,880 Speaker 1: I sent them, you know. And so sometimes it's like that, 584 00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:26,159 Speaker 1: you know, But sometimes you have to challenge. 585 00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:27,520 Speaker 2: What you thought it was gonna be with something that 586 00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:29,320 Speaker 2: could be an alternative. 587 00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:32,080 Speaker 1: But still holds true to the integrity of the music project, 588 00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:35,480 Speaker 1: you know, to get them to kind of figure it out. Yeah, 589 00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:38,959 Speaker 1: but I've had you know, like like I've had situations 590 00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:40,760 Speaker 1: whereas like I knew it was going to be it, 591 00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:44,040 Speaker 1: you know, and then the artists state like they just 592 00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:47,639 Speaker 1: didn't like it, and maybe it was not really because 593 00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:50,680 Speaker 1: of them, but because of the outside influences, like they 594 00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:53,080 Speaker 1: homeboys weren't feeling it. Like I've had that, and I 595 00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:54,680 Speaker 1: was like, what the hell, you know what I mean, 596 00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:56,840 Speaker 1: like what is you know, but it's just kind of 597 00:27:56,880 --> 00:27:59,320 Speaker 1: like how it is. But the most important thing is 598 00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:00,600 Speaker 1: to make a bit about the artist. 599 00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:13,480 Speaker 5: You know, when. 600 00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:15,000 Speaker 3: You start working on those projects and then you kind 601 00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:18,680 Speaker 3: of transitioned into you know, Goldfinger your studio and doing 602 00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:21,000 Speaker 3: that kind of work. Like what inspired you to start that? 603 00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:22,639 Speaker 3: You know you were you want to start working on 604 00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:24,439 Speaker 3: other things. We know you do the you know, the 605 00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:27,440 Speaker 3: amazing art pieces. Now, like what kind of inspired you 606 00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:29,600 Speaker 3: to make that transition into doing more of that art. 607 00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:31,359 Speaker 4: I know you still work with artists and stuff here 608 00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:32,040 Speaker 4: and there, but. 609 00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:35,359 Speaker 1: Well, you know, I was always an artist, and so 610 00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:38,680 Speaker 1: I was always doing things, you know, from your T 611 00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:42,440 Speaker 1: shirt designed for your fraternity to oh, you're opening up 612 00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:44,800 Speaker 1: a new hip hop club in Saint Louis me and 613 00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:47,600 Speaker 1: tuning my homeboys, doing murals on three floors you know, 614 00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:51,160 Speaker 1: spray you know, you know spray can art. You know, 615 00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:55,440 Speaker 1: Like I was always taking my art and figuring out 616 00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:58,120 Speaker 1: how to make a living from it, even though like 617 00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:01,560 Speaker 1: I wasn't thinking about making a living from it, but 618 00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:03,560 Speaker 1: I was like, hey, I'll do this, and he's gonna 619 00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:05,719 Speaker 1: pay me to do it, you know. But you know, 620 00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:08,720 Speaker 1: so what inspired me? It was really like a natural 621 00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:11,320 Speaker 1: progression because like when I was in you know, when 622 00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:13,280 Speaker 1: I was designing to clothing, you know, like in Saint 623 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:16,280 Speaker 1: Louis and in New York, I was always freelancing, you know, 624 00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:19,719 Speaker 1: I mean, which goes back to actually the college. I 625 00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:23,720 Speaker 1: had a great internship with a place called Merits and 626 00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:26,920 Speaker 1: at the time they had over one hundred illustrators and designers, 627 00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:29,920 Speaker 1: and I met like all of my creative mentors there, 628 00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:34,000 Speaker 1: like my first black illustrator, Tony Wade, you know, my 629 00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:39,360 Speaker 1: first black art director, Ken Jones, my first black graphic designer, 630 00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:41,520 Speaker 1: Mark Scott Carroll. And so I still talk to those 631 00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:44,160 Speaker 1: guys today. And even though they had jobs, they were 632 00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:47,680 Speaker 1: always freelancing. So I got to see how they wasn't 633 00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:51,000 Speaker 1: just satisfied with what they were doing there, you know. 634 00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:54,800 Speaker 1: And some of it could have been financial, like you know, 635 00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:57,520 Speaker 1: let me increase, you know, like the money that I'm earning, 636 00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:01,120 Speaker 1: and some of it could be just know, creative freedom 637 00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:03,720 Speaker 1: to be able to work on other projects. And so, 638 00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:06,640 Speaker 1: you know, like I've always looked at it like that 639 00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:10,000 Speaker 1: as well. And so like while I was at LA Face, 640 00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:12,040 Speaker 1: like I was freelancing while I was at the Face, 641 00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:15,400 Speaker 1: and the way that my contract was up, like it 642 00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:17,840 Speaker 1: was like a number, it was a cap on how 643 00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:20,520 Speaker 1: many music projects that are going on for other labels. 644 00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:21,080 Speaker 5: You know. 645 00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:25,000 Speaker 1: I never hit that cap because the face was so 646 00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:29,520 Speaker 1: big over there. Yeah, yeah, and so I was kind 647 00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:31,840 Speaker 1: of picking chew, you know what I mean, and things 648 00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:33,560 Speaker 1: like that. You know, I think the cap might have 649 00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:36,160 Speaker 1: been like seven. I I never really hit seven because 650 00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:39,480 Speaker 1: I never had the time because outside of that, you know, 651 00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:42,800 Speaker 1: like I was also doing freelance illustration for like magazines 652 00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:45,400 Speaker 1: and advertising agency. Yes, and so like when I was 653 00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:48,240 Speaker 1: at La Face, man, like I would get home from 654 00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:51,120 Speaker 1: work maybe like at eight, you know, and sometimes I 655 00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:52,680 Speaker 1: would be up at like three or four o'clock in 656 00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:55,360 Speaker 1: the morning working on a freelance project and didn't have 657 00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:58,080 Speaker 1: to be at office at ten, you know. But I 658 00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:00,240 Speaker 1: was like, you know, I was wired to work like that, 659 00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:02,800 Speaker 1: and I can do that, you know. And that was 660 00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:04,960 Speaker 1: like in my early you know, like in my mid 661 00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:07,560 Speaker 1: like I was at La Face like twenty six, twenty seven, yeah, 662 00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:09,880 Speaker 1: you know. And so it's funny like when I hear, 663 00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:12,520 Speaker 1: you know, some young people talking about like how they 664 00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:15,640 Speaker 1: they grind and how I'm like, you have no idea 665 00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:19,760 Speaker 1: like what grinding is really, you know, and and so 666 00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:22,480 Speaker 1: imagine this imagine like you working all day, you have 667 00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:25,680 Speaker 1: all of these deliverables, going back and forth meetings, and 668 00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:29,320 Speaker 1: especially like if you work on a music project that's due, 669 00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:32,000 Speaker 1: which is always high stress. Yeah, you do that. You 670 00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:34,520 Speaker 1: come home, you got a wife, you got a new blond, 671 00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:37,880 Speaker 1: and you deal with them. And then at ten o'clock 672 00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:39,600 Speaker 1: you start working. You work from ten to four. 673 00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:43,200 Speaker 2: Then you then you maybe sleep for like two hour, 674 00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:43,880 Speaker 2: three hours. 675 00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:46,120 Speaker 1: You take it, you know, take a shower, you get 676 00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:49,240 Speaker 1: up and leave. But I did that many many days, 677 00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:52,520 Speaker 1: you know, many many days. And so being at La 678 00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:56,120 Speaker 1: Face and the high profile projects that I worked on, 679 00:31:56,880 --> 00:31:59,320 Speaker 1: and you know, like the greatness of the artist and 680 00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:02,920 Speaker 1: the music and La Reason as an executive helped to 681 00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:06,320 Speaker 1: give the things that I created the exposure that it did. 682 00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:09,480 Speaker 1: And so I attracted the attention from you know, like 683 00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:13,040 Speaker 1: Nike and Adidas and you know, Coca Cola just other 684 00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:15,960 Speaker 1: brands doing the same type of thes like we want 685 00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:19,200 Speaker 1: the way that that looks for this project, you know. 686 00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:21,920 Speaker 1: And so I already had a client base. And so 687 00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:24,920 Speaker 1: like when La La and baby Face Sola Face in 688 00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:26,800 Speaker 1: two thousand, like I didn't want to move back to 689 00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:29,760 Speaker 1: New York because I just had my son and that 690 00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:32,840 Speaker 1: was Yeah. My daughter was three, just had my son, 691 00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:35,040 Speaker 1: and I was like, man, like, if I move up 692 00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:38,760 Speaker 1: there with my family, I'm never going to see my family, 693 00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:41,560 Speaker 1: you know, because being in New York City, it's just 694 00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:44,480 Speaker 1: like it's a different thing. I mean yeah, And so 695 00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:47,200 Speaker 1: like the most important thing for me has always been 696 00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:51,880 Speaker 1: like my family, and then everything else has extended from that. 697 00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:55,440 Speaker 1: And so like I passed up some amazing opportunities because 698 00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:57,680 Speaker 1: I knew that it would it would disrupt and take 699 00:32:57,720 --> 00:32:58,680 Speaker 1: me away from my family. 700 00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:00,800 Speaker 3: Now you said something interial, kind of go back on. 701 00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:02,640 Speaker 3: You said you had a cap on the number of 702 00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:04,160 Speaker 3: records and albums. 703 00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:05,080 Speaker 4: You could work for other labels. 704 00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:07,640 Speaker 3: Yes, What I want to know is, was there ever 705 00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:10,640 Speaker 3: a project that you ended up passing on that went 706 00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:14,440 Speaker 3: on to be something amazing or some artists you know, 707 00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:16,440 Speaker 3: and you're like, you know what that was? That was dope, 708 00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:18,240 Speaker 3: but I could have made it better or I wish 709 00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:19,600 Speaker 3: I'd had a chance to actually work on that if 710 00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:20,360 Speaker 3: I wasn't so busy. 711 00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:22,840 Speaker 1: Nerd Males, Nerd, the fresh Nerd. 712 00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:24,560 Speaker 3: Oh the first one that was the one? Yeah, any 713 00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:26,960 Speaker 3: already no one ever really died? Yeah, yeah, I got 714 00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:27,320 Speaker 3: that one. 715 00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:29,560 Speaker 4: Yeah, that one oh Man, that would have been crazy. 716 00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:32,120 Speaker 4: You with the Neptunes. Yeah, you could take that to 717 00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:32,920 Speaker 4: a whole different level. 718 00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:34,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, cause it was like because that was when they 719 00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:38,080 Speaker 3: was still like the rock kind of grune thing. 720 00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:39,480 Speaker 1: Loved that fame. 721 00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:41,560 Speaker 4: Yeah, that that first that first man. 722 00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:44,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's still great and it's still jamming. But at 723 00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:47,200 Speaker 1: the time, like I was, I was dealing with something 724 00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:50,840 Speaker 1: that but yeah, I was dealing with something there, and 725 00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:54,600 Speaker 1: then I was working on an another project for I'm 726 00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:58,200 Speaker 1: trying to think version, I was working on another project 727 00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:01,840 Speaker 1: and so I haven't had a capacity. Yeah, you know, 728 00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:06,040 Speaker 1: i'd had so they had already started, but the creative 729 00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:09,000 Speaker 1: director didn't like what was happening, you know, and so 730 00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:10,680 Speaker 1: they it's like, hey, we want to bring you this, 731 00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:13,040 Speaker 1: but you might have to do some initial stuff on 732 00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:17,360 Speaker 1: spec and you know, I was like, man, I'm not 733 00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:19,359 Speaker 1: doing that, you know what I mean? 734 00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:21,640 Speaker 2: But I wish I kind of threw my hat, you know, 735 00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:22,440 Speaker 2: I had to go. 736 00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:22,719 Speaker 1: Look it up. 737 00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:25,080 Speaker 3: That's the woman with a what's the name sitting on 738 00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:27,640 Speaker 3: the couch on that one oh Man. You're doing crazy with. 739 00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:30,640 Speaker 1: That, yeah, and yeah, so yeah that was it. 740 00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:32,799 Speaker 3: Now you've got other projects too, A lot of people 741 00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:35,799 Speaker 3: don't know this, but you actually designed the Black Music 742 00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:37,800 Speaker 3: and Entertainment Walk of Fame right here in Atlanta. 743 00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:39,760 Speaker 4: How did that project come to get started? 744 00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:40,040 Speaker 5: Man? 745 00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:43,279 Speaker 1: So you know, like I tell like young creative people, 746 00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:49,120 Speaker 1: it's like, man, pick up your phone. The phone. I'm like, 747 00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:51,319 Speaker 1: you got to pick up your phone. And it's like 748 00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:53,839 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Granted, you know, like if 749 00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:57,200 Speaker 1: it's a situation where you can't pick up your phone, 750 00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:00,960 Speaker 1: call them back. Yeah, you know, don't everything is in 751 00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:03,120 Speaker 1: text and so like it's certain people that call your 752 00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:04,560 Speaker 1: phone that you know you got to pick it up 753 00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:07,720 Speaker 1: right away. So this was like learned those situations where 754 00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:10,759 Speaker 1: you know, it was Catherine Bruton who runs b M 755 00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:14,600 Speaker 1: I here, Michael Marlton, who's a legend in his own 756 00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:18,520 Speaker 1: right and he's about outside of him being a legend, 757 00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:19,480 Speaker 1: like he's remained. 758 00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:19,919 Speaker 4: To me, he's dead. 759 00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:23,239 Speaker 1: Yeah, uh La Reid, which you know who he is, 760 00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:26,240 Speaker 1: Dallas who you know he is, and the met Guidry. 761 00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:28,279 Speaker 1: You know, they was like, hey, we want to talk 762 00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:30,160 Speaker 1: to you about this project that we're doing. And it 763 00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:33,360 Speaker 1: was like kind of like two organizations coming together to 764 00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:37,920 Speaker 1: really preserve and highlight and acknowledge like all of these 765 00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:40,800 Speaker 1: people that have done things, uh, you know, like African 766 00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:45,560 Speaker 1: American people, you know, for entertainment, music and eventually even sports. 767 00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:48,120 Speaker 1: And so I was like, I'm in. I didn't even 768 00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:50,120 Speaker 1: know what it was, but I was like dealing with 769 00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:51,800 Speaker 1: all of them and I just know the level of 770 00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:54,000 Speaker 1: everything that they've done. I'm like, I'm in, yeah, you know. 771 00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:56,960 Speaker 1: And so it was it was really that and uh 772 00:35:57,040 --> 00:35:58,879 Speaker 1: and it didn't take long, you know what I mean, 773 00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:01,200 Speaker 1: it was a pretty quick process. As soon as they 774 00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:04,080 Speaker 1: told me what it was, you know, I just started thinking, 775 00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:07,040 Speaker 1: it's like you go to La to get the get 776 00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:10,239 Speaker 1: your star on the Walk of uh Walk of Fame, 777 00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:11,719 Speaker 1: in the Walk of Fame, and it's like when they 778 00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:14,400 Speaker 1: come here, like we need to give them their crown, 779 00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:17,840 Speaker 1: you know. So I started thinking like that, like, you know, 780 00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:19,879 Speaker 1: I'm going to get my crown in Atlanta. I'm going 781 00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:22,960 Speaker 1: you know. And so, which is why, like if you 782 00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:25,920 Speaker 1: look at it, all the males is like king on 783 00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:28,000 Speaker 1: the on the and all of the women is queen, 784 00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:31,080 Speaker 1: you know. But it's because of that, and which is why, 785 00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:34,680 Speaker 1: like the emblem even looks like an African crown. So 786 00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:39,120 Speaker 1: all of the aesthetics were inspired by African shapes and motifs, 787 00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:42,680 Speaker 1: you know, and I wanted to be very very intentional 788 00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:44,520 Speaker 1: to that, but it was that, you know. And so 789 00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:49,600 Speaker 1: what was cool about that is getting to work with man. 790 00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:51,600 Speaker 1: This guy you got to google him to His name 791 00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:54,120 Speaker 1: is Ed Dwight, you know, but he is one of 792 00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:57,560 Speaker 1: like he is the dol Seki's man for in real life. 793 00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:01,320 Speaker 1: So he's a he's a sculptor, an American sculpture and 794 00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:05,880 Speaker 1: he does monuments based in Denver, Okay. But he was 795 00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:07,759 Speaker 1: also an astronaut, you know. 796 00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:13,319 Speaker 2: That was that was you know, selected plots JFK. 797 00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:16,960 Speaker 1: You know. He used to run around with like Miles Davis. 798 00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:17,440 Speaker 1: You know. 799 00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:21,839 Speaker 2: It's just very very interesting older man man. 800 00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:22,239 Speaker 4: Yeah. 801 00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:24,520 Speaker 1: So like so I work with him on the whole 802 00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:27,840 Speaker 1: project of like you know, how to troubleshoot and the 803 00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:30,839 Speaker 1: fabrication and getting the modes made. So we went off 804 00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:32,799 Speaker 1: to Denver, me and Michael Martin and we got to 805 00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:35,440 Speaker 1: hang out with him at his factory, you know, and 806 00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:38,840 Speaker 1: so he helped with the initial like molde making and 807 00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:41,000 Speaker 1: things like that. That was super dope. 808 00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:42,160 Speaker 4: That's cool, man. 809 00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:45,040 Speaker 3: Now as somebody's running the business, you know, again this 810 00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:47,080 Speaker 3: is butter nomics and it's the Business of Culture podcast, 811 00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:48,960 Speaker 3: just out of like how do you balance the business 812 00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:50,000 Speaker 3: side and the creative side? 813 00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:51,879 Speaker 4: I know that's a challenge for a lot of people. 814 00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:55,040 Speaker 1: Man, So how I balanced the business side is a 815 00:37:55,040 --> 00:38:00,879 Speaker 1: lot of the business I have lista Warfield him, Yeah, 816 00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:03,960 Speaker 1: because I mean she's very detail oriented. I mean we've 817 00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:06,759 Speaker 1: been together since I was sixteen, you know, and so 818 00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:10,680 Speaker 1: but she's very detail oriented, and she like naturaliz. She 819 00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:15,279 Speaker 1: works in logistics, so like pipeline processes, things like that, 820 00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:18,880 Speaker 1: like the numbers, Do the numbers work? You know, Like 821 00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:22,040 Speaker 1: that is her natural sweet spot, you know. And so 822 00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:24,960 Speaker 1: we're opposites in that way. So a lot of like 823 00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:29,799 Speaker 1: contractual scheduling things like that, Like I have her handle it. 824 00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:33,960 Speaker 1: But you know, doing business is all about sales, you know, 825 00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:37,200 Speaker 1: and so you know, I can sell myself and I 826 00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:40,440 Speaker 1: can sell stuff, but you still got to close it, 827 00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:42,840 Speaker 1: you know. And so it's one thing to get somebody 828 00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:45,399 Speaker 1: excited about an opportunity, but then to actually get them 829 00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:47,879 Speaker 1: in the door and and reel it in and get 830 00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:51,440 Speaker 1: the budget approved in the check clear. Like that's what 831 00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:53,880 Speaker 1: she's great at, you know. And then we have other people, 832 00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:57,320 Speaker 1: you know that we work on the legal side of things, 833 00:38:57,400 --> 00:38:59,200 Speaker 1: you know what I mean, and things like that. But 834 00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:01,360 Speaker 1: like when you York an artist, you know, if you 835 00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:04,880 Speaker 1: want to make a career of it, I think one 836 00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:07,440 Speaker 1: of the first things you got to do is identify 837 00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:09,480 Speaker 1: what you're not good at, and then you got to 838 00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:14,080 Speaker 1: find out who's good at that and then work let 839 00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:17,920 Speaker 1: those people do that side, you know, the of your business. 840 00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:20,400 Speaker 1: You have to do that, you know, because it's not 841 00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:24,000 Speaker 1: like I understand like the business side of Like I 842 00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:25,960 Speaker 1: think the big thing when your artist is don't take 843 00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:31,000 Speaker 1: it personally, you know, and understand that when somebody pays 844 00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:34,000 Speaker 1: you for something, it's no longer your project, right, you know, 845 00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:36,640 Speaker 1: and you got to be a good listener. So I 846 00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:40,200 Speaker 1: understand all of that, you know, But I don't want 847 00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:42,839 Speaker 1: to look at spreadsheets. I don't want to look at 848 00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:46,200 Speaker 1: like shipping information, you know, and all of that and 849 00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:48,160 Speaker 1: so like. But those are the type of details and 850 00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:51,000 Speaker 1: the things are important can make a project go south. 851 00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:53,719 Speaker 1: It's like we love the artwork, but it didn't get 852 00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:57,239 Speaker 1: here on time, or it was over budget, or it 853 00:39:57,239 --> 00:39:59,799 Speaker 1: doesn't fit on the truck, you know. Like it's it's 854 00:39:59,840 --> 00:40:02,440 Speaker 1: like I think, like those type of details somebody has 855 00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:05,080 Speaker 1: to be handling it for you. Yeah, and it's kind 856 00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:08,040 Speaker 1: of hard to flip out of being in a creative 857 00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:10,959 Speaker 1: zone and then go straight to the opposite side. 858 00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:15,200 Speaker 2: It is, it's not, you know, because you're always thinking. 859 00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:19,759 Speaker 1: And dreaming and looking for inspiration, you know, versus you know, 860 00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:20,600 Speaker 1: checking budgets. 861 00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:24,279 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's interesting again, that's that's that's a good tip. Again, 862 00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:25,600 Speaker 3: Like I tell people all the time, you got to 863 00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:28,959 Speaker 3: have a team, and the job of any leader, any 864 00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:31,359 Speaker 3: CEO is to kind of, you know, put people around 865 00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:32,839 Speaker 3: you that are better at those other things that you're 866 00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:34,440 Speaker 3: not doing. I always kind of tell my team, do 867 00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:36,360 Speaker 3: only the things that you can do right. And I 868 00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:37,840 Speaker 3: think that's a problem people a lot of times, right, 869 00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:40,160 Speaker 3: they try to do all these different things right. But 870 00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:42,080 Speaker 3: one question I do have though, is so you're working 871 00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:44,719 Speaker 3: on these projects, stuff is coming in. And I asked 872 00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:47,520 Speaker 3: this because I also working to have a creative agency myself, 873 00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:48,919 Speaker 3: and so I deal with these kind of all the time, 874 00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:50,399 Speaker 3: and I think people will find a lot of value 875 00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:52,799 Speaker 3: what I'm about to say. What's it like asking for 876 00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:54,600 Speaker 3: the money? Like, how do you handle how do you 877 00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:55,600 Speaker 3: approach the money part? 878 00:40:55,719 --> 00:40:58,239 Speaker 4: Right? Because the money part is important. Correct, So when 879 00:40:58,239 --> 00:40:58,960 Speaker 4: you're coming up with. 880 00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:00,840 Speaker 3: A budget for a project, I know that again, I 881 00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:03,880 Speaker 3: know that budgets, you know, they can be it's hours, 882 00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:06,560 Speaker 3: the kind of plus there's value, right, But just in general, 883 00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:09,440 Speaker 3: like what is your general approach to saying this is 884 00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:11,240 Speaker 3: how I value this work? 885 00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:11,640 Speaker 1: Right? 886 00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:13,600 Speaker 4: And how do you get comfortable with doing that when 887 00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:14,200 Speaker 4: you're asking before? 888 00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:14,480 Speaker 5: Right? 889 00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:16,600 Speaker 1: So you know as a fine art you know, like 890 00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:20,160 Speaker 1: I've documented almost everything that I've sold, you know, and 891 00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:23,040 Speaker 1: I always say, let's go back to twenty twelve. Like 892 00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:25,920 Speaker 1: I've documented everything I've sold, and so like I could 893 00:41:25,960 --> 00:41:29,520 Speaker 1: actually show any collector like, hey, this is how this 894 00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:32,920 Speaker 1: work has been elevated, you know, like like this painting 895 00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:37,239 Speaker 1: that you know, this piece that I'll sold for in 896 00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:41,640 Speaker 1: twenty and twelve, you know, like now that piece for 897 00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:44,320 Speaker 1: thirty five hundred, now to sell it for thirty five thousand, 898 00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:46,399 Speaker 1: you know, so just kind of look and I can 899 00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:50,160 Speaker 1: show you it's like the multiple price you know, sales 900 00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:52,520 Speaker 1: and things that I've had in that So like that 901 00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:54,400 Speaker 1: is one way that I track it. It's like, you know, 902 00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:58,160 Speaker 1: I'm not like if it's nineteen ninety five or just 903 00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:02,799 Speaker 1: say like if it's twenty and fifteen, that piece is 904 00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:05,480 Speaker 1: going to be more than twenty and eighteen, you know. 905 00:42:05,600 --> 00:42:08,720 Speaker 1: So I've been scaling up every year like the value 906 00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:11,680 Speaker 1: of my work. But you know, as a creative director, 907 00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:15,160 Speaker 1: you know, it's a lot. It's so many different valuables, 908 00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:17,400 Speaker 1: like when I work on brand type projects, you know, 909 00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:22,839 Speaker 1: and especially with the how digital has really infiltrated like everything, 910 00:42:23,239 --> 00:42:26,560 Speaker 1: you know, and then the ease of creating some of 911 00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:30,319 Speaker 1: these assets and motion graphics and so you know, like 912 00:42:30,440 --> 00:42:34,440 Speaker 1: I give brands a fee for just like the ideation, 913 00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:35,960 Speaker 1: like you just want me to think about it and 914 00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:39,960 Speaker 1: give you some ideas. That's that, and then the deliverables 915 00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:43,320 Speaker 1: and the usage is all kind of like menu style, 916 00:42:43,719 --> 00:42:47,120 Speaker 1: you know. And what makes it really easy on the 917 00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:51,839 Speaker 1: creative direction side is Lisa handles the negotiation because she's 918 00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:54,000 Speaker 1: in sales, you know what I mean, And so you know, 919 00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:55,200 Speaker 1: like how you gotta. 920 00:42:56,120 --> 00:42:58,280 Speaker 2: Walk walk out of the room and let the people 921 00:42:58,440 --> 00:42:59,280 Speaker 2: come to terms. 922 00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:02,399 Speaker 1: So that's kindind of like you know what I do. 923 00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:04,640 Speaker 1: I mean, we have conversations about it, you know, and 924 00:43:04,680 --> 00:43:08,560 Speaker 1: then I have other professionals in my in my network 925 00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:10,960 Speaker 1: that we kind of bounce back like okay, this is 926 00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:14,680 Speaker 1: what kind of like what how budgets are being handled 927 00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:17,600 Speaker 1: for these type of projects, you know, But it's like 928 00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:19,200 Speaker 1: you just want to. 929 00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:20,759 Speaker 2: Be happy, you know what I mean at the end 930 00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:22,440 Speaker 2: of the day with whatever the situation is. 931 00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:25,359 Speaker 1: And you have an agency, so I know you've had 932 00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:28,440 Speaker 1: times where you know, you got the budget proved as 933 00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:30,640 Speaker 1: soon as you said it, and you kind of like, dang. 934 00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:31,759 Speaker 4: I should ask more. 935 00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:34,839 Speaker 1: You always yeah, but it's like it could be five 936 00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:37,640 Speaker 1: dollars morning you don't get the shit. So it's like, 937 00:43:37,719 --> 00:43:39,080 Speaker 1: you know, you just want to be kind, to be 938 00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:42,640 Speaker 1: happy and h you want to feel that you're being 939 00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:46,839 Speaker 1: compensated fairly and more most importantly, that you're not being 940 00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:47,680 Speaker 1: taken advantage. 941 00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:49,080 Speaker 4: Yeah, everybody's gotta win. 942 00:43:49,239 --> 00:43:50,920 Speaker 3: I think that's what I've learned over time, Like, like, 943 00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:52,839 Speaker 3: you know, it's good to get it, but you got 944 00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:54,560 Speaker 3: to leave a little bit on the table sometimes that 945 00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:57,399 Speaker 3: everybody feels like they want. Yeah, And I one hundred 946 00:43:57,400 --> 00:43:59,240 Speaker 3: percent agree with you when you talk about your approach 947 00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:02,160 Speaker 3: of like ideation and versus production. What I always kind 948 00:44:02,160 --> 00:44:04,279 Speaker 3: to tell people is even if you want to build 949 00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:06,320 Speaker 3: a house, you need a blueprint, correct, and there is 950 00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:07,759 Speaker 3: a cost for that blueprint. 951 00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:08,200 Speaker 1: Correct. 952 00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:10,120 Speaker 3: I don't care who builds the house. I would love 953 00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:11,840 Speaker 3: to build the house for, he says, I make the blueprint, 954 00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:14,520 Speaker 3: but I could at least charge you for that that's 955 00:44:14,520 --> 00:44:16,840 Speaker 3: separate than the actual work, right, So you know, I 956 00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:18,760 Speaker 3: think even again, just breaking it down from that approach, 957 00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:32,560 Speaker 3: you know, definitely helped. What I really want to know, though, 958 00:44:32,640 --> 00:44:34,080 Speaker 3: is what are your thoughts on AI? 959 00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:34,680 Speaker 1: Like? 960 00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:37,600 Speaker 4: Is it the end? Is it the beginning? Is it 961 00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:38,480 Speaker 4: a creative partner? 962 00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:38,719 Speaker 1: Like? 963 00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:43,440 Speaker 2: I think that it's the beginning for people who embrace it. 964 00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:48,200 Speaker 1: Okay, it's the end for people who or resistant against 965 00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:52,239 Speaker 1: it because it's here and it's not going anywhere, you 966 00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:55,680 Speaker 1: know what I mean. Like I remember when paced up 967 00:44:55,760 --> 00:44:58,960 Speaker 1: artist that worked at Edison Brothers were getting pissed off 968 00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:00,640 Speaker 1: when the computers came in to the office. 969 00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:02,879 Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, it's gonna take my job. 970 00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:04,560 Speaker 1: I'm like, well, shit, it not if you learn how 971 00:45:04,560 --> 00:45:06,560 Speaker 1: to use the computer, right, you know, And so you 972 00:45:06,640 --> 00:45:09,600 Speaker 1: got to use AI for that, you know. I think 973 00:45:09,680 --> 00:45:12,440 Speaker 1: that it's never going to be human, you know what 974 00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:15,319 Speaker 1: I mean. It's replicating what it thinks that a human 975 00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:17,560 Speaker 1: could do. So I think it's something that you know, 976 00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:19,560 Speaker 1: you kind of use the tool. Like one of my 977 00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:22,799 Speaker 1: good friends from college who is a you know, a. 978 00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:25,920 Speaker 2: Three D animator. You know, he done great stuff. I 979 00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:28,680 Speaker 2: mean he works on Transformers and Marvel. I mean like 980 00:45:28,760 --> 00:45:30,600 Speaker 2: we shared you know, he's from Brooklyn. He was a 981 00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:31,320 Speaker 2: graffiti artist. 982 00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:34,080 Speaker 1: We went to our school together and we shared a 983 00:45:34,120 --> 00:45:37,640 Speaker 1: painting studio together in college. But yeah, he's like, man, 984 00:45:38,120 --> 00:45:39,920 Speaker 1: it's it's like it can do a lot of things, 985 00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:43,279 Speaker 1: because he's really heavy into digital manipulation and all of 986 00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:46,880 Speaker 1: that obviously, but he's like, it won't it won't compensate 987 00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:50,440 Speaker 1: for natural human eraror that makes things beautiful, Like it 988 00:45:50,560 --> 00:45:53,399 Speaker 1: can't do that, yeah, you know. But what it can 989 00:45:53,520 --> 00:45:57,160 Speaker 1: do is give me something from this perspective really quick, 990 00:45:57,680 --> 00:45:59,560 Speaker 1: and then you can just kind of see it and 991 00:45:59,600 --> 00:46:02,120 Speaker 1: then you like, okay, then you make it, make it 992 00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:04,439 Speaker 1: better and just make it real. So it can help 993 00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:06,520 Speaker 1: you like that. It can help you write an outline 994 00:46:06,560 --> 00:46:10,680 Speaker 1: for something, you know, but it can't give them Brandon 995 00:46:10,719 --> 00:46:13,840 Speaker 1: Butler's perspective, Like you can't, you know, because it's it's 996 00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:16,680 Speaker 1: like your perspective is like the only cheat code that 997 00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:19,680 Speaker 1: you have, yeah, you know, and so AI will never 998 00:46:19,719 --> 00:46:22,400 Speaker 1: do that. AI can give you a bunch of clones 999 00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:24,640 Speaker 1: of stuff you know, but it can't do that. But 1000 00:46:25,120 --> 00:46:26,840 Speaker 1: you know, I don't. I don't really have a problem 1001 00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:30,440 Speaker 1: with it. I'm always amazed with it, you know. And 1002 00:46:30,640 --> 00:46:32,839 Speaker 1: you know, like I messing around on mid Journey and 1003 00:46:32,880 --> 00:46:35,640 Speaker 1: things like that, Like just last night, you know, like 1004 00:46:35,719 --> 00:46:38,600 Speaker 1: I ha, I was messing around with the Runway, like 1005 00:46:38,640 --> 00:46:41,719 Speaker 1: the Runway app cause what when I seen the partnership 1006 00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:43,799 Speaker 1: that they did with lines Gay, I was like, oh shit, 1007 00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:45,480 Speaker 1: is old, you know what I mean, Like you got 1008 00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:48,440 Speaker 1: to do it. Now. What I don't like is let 1009 00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:50,440 Speaker 1: us take your likeness and use it in all of 1010 00:46:50,440 --> 00:46:53,680 Speaker 1: these movies. I hate all of that. It's like, nah, 1011 00:46:53,719 --> 00:46:56,040 Speaker 1: like you shouldn't be able to take somebody's image. You 1012 00:46:56,040 --> 00:46:57,920 Speaker 1: shouldn't be able to take their voice and do what 1013 00:46:57,960 --> 00:47:00,000 Speaker 1: you want to do with it. Like it's I don't 1014 00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:03,680 Speaker 1: like that, you know, and so but you know it's 1015 00:47:03,719 --> 00:47:06,080 Speaker 1: weird man. And you may have thought about this the 1016 00:47:06,120 --> 00:47:09,360 Speaker 1: same way. Like when everybody started selling like all of 1017 00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:13,359 Speaker 1: their music publishing intellectual property, the first thing I thought 1018 00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:16,360 Speaker 1: of was AI because I'm like, they don't need you. 1019 00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:19,640 Speaker 1: Matter of fact, they're gonna have a concert and they're 1020 00:47:19,640 --> 00:47:22,279 Speaker 1: gonna sell out a whole concert hall and they're going 1021 00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:28,719 Speaker 1: to create and a Knakis singing your album in a 1022 00:47:28,840 --> 00:47:33,799 Speaker 1: hall that's like holographically simulated, and people are gonna go 1023 00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:38,520 Speaker 1: and pay money, and you're gonna be like and it's like, hey, 1024 00:47:38,560 --> 00:47:43,720 Speaker 1: it's not your music anyway. So it's like, what we 1025 00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:45,680 Speaker 1: do we want to see you sing it? Or do 1026 00:47:45,719 --> 00:47:49,000 Speaker 1: we want to see these creatures singing the computer generator 1027 00:47:49,040 --> 00:47:52,160 Speaker 1: they're flying all around the Yeah, but you know what 1028 00:47:52,239 --> 00:47:54,879 Speaker 1: I mean, Like it could be that. But the first 1029 00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:58,360 Speaker 1: thing I thought of was that, I'm like, something bigger 1030 00:47:58,440 --> 00:48:01,279 Speaker 1: is coming and I think it's that. But you know, 1031 00:48:01,520 --> 00:48:04,839 Speaker 1: and so it is going to take jobs, but it's 1032 00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:07,560 Speaker 1: also going to create jobs. And so which side of 1033 00:48:07,560 --> 00:48:09,760 Speaker 1: the line are you going to be on the people 1034 00:48:09,760 --> 00:48:11,560 Speaker 1: that are using it to create a job with the 1035 00:48:11,600 --> 00:48:14,560 Speaker 1: people that's gonna use to take a job. But I 1036 00:48:14,600 --> 00:48:17,440 Speaker 1: think that it's dangerous for sure. You know, like when 1037 00:48:17,440 --> 00:48:19,799 Speaker 1: I see things like I posted something on my Instagram 1038 00:48:19,920 --> 00:48:22,000 Speaker 1: it was like a video that they mash up they 1039 00:48:22,040 --> 00:48:27,719 Speaker 1: did with like Obama, Yo, it was hilarious. But I'm like, 1040 00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:32,560 Speaker 1: people are so stupid and they believe things to the 1041 00:48:32,560 --> 00:48:35,520 Speaker 1: fullest that they see on the internet that it can 1042 00:48:35,560 --> 00:48:36,280 Speaker 1: cause violence. 1043 00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:37,000 Speaker 4: They don't even check. 1044 00:48:37,239 --> 00:48:39,640 Speaker 1: It can create a world, you know what I mean, Like, 1045 00:48:39,840 --> 00:48:43,040 Speaker 1: it can do all of that. And you know, I 1046 00:48:43,080 --> 00:48:46,040 Speaker 1: think that, you know, I always wonder like it's the 1047 00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:49,040 Speaker 1: it's the nature of men good or is it evil? 1048 00:48:50,040 --> 00:48:55,400 Speaker 1: And everything now is so profit driven that people would 1049 00:48:55,440 --> 00:49:01,240 Speaker 1: create whatever it is to make money. And soccer whoever, 1050 00:49:01,280 --> 00:49:05,400 Speaker 1: they got a sacrifice for profit and that AI gives 1051 00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:07,160 Speaker 1: them all of the ability to do. 1052 00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:10,120 Speaker 3: About about a year ago, there was a photo that 1053 00:49:10,200 --> 00:49:12,279 Speaker 3: came out because I do a lot of stuff with 1054 00:49:12,280 --> 00:49:13,880 Speaker 3: the market too, there was a photo that came out 1055 00:49:13,960 --> 00:49:16,759 Speaker 3: on Twitter, and I knew it was fake the moment 1056 00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:18,719 Speaker 3: the photo came out. It was a photo of an 1057 00:49:18,760 --> 00:49:22,520 Speaker 3: explosion at the Pentagon. Somebody then went and they had 1058 00:49:22,520 --> 00:49:26,000 Speaker 3: a bunch of bots on Twitter all repost the photos 1059 00:49:26,040 --> 00:49:28,759 Speaker 3: saying there was an explosion at the Pentagon. All of 1060 00:49:28,760 --> 00:49:33,200 Speaker 3: a sudden, the stock market dropped like fifty points. There 1061 00:49:33,239 --> 00:49:35,520 Speaker 3: was no link back to any news, there was no 1062 00:49:35,640 --> 00:49:38,120 Speaker 3: link back to any references. Everybody was like, this is 1063 00:49:38,120 --> 00:49:39,360 Speaker 3: a real photo. And I looked at the FU so 1064 00:49:39,480 --> 00:49:41,080 Speaker 3: that's not a real photo. I can tell by looking 1065 00:49:41,120 --> 00:49:42,960 Speaker 3: at that. So that's that's mid journey or something like that, 1066 00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:45,520 Speaker 3: And all it takes is that split second, because in 1067 00:49:45,600 --> 00:49:47,560 Speaker 3: that split second, with that market dropped, and if you're 1068 00:49:47,640 --> 00:49:50,560 Speaker 3: ahead of that boom, you short it. You make fifty 1069 00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:53,200 Speaker 3: million dollars and nobody knows it, and nobody said anything 1070 00:49:53,200 --> 00:49:54,879 Speaker 3: about it. And that's what I'm worried about. 1071 00:49:54,880 --> 00:49:55,000 Speaker 1: To you. 1072 00:49:55,040 --> 00:49:57,560 Speaker 3: The exact point is stuff comes out so fast and 1073 00:49:57,600 --> 00:49:59,319 Speaker 3: people are so quick to just take it and run 1074 00:49:59,360 --> 00:50:02,440 Speaker 3: with it. All it takes is for you know, somebody 1075 00:50:02,440 --> 00:50:04,320 Speaker 3: do that with a with a major company or the 1076 00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:07,040 Speaker 3: political figure, or with you know, some kind of war 1077 00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:08,360 Speaker 3: thing right, and all of a sudden it kind of 1078 00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:09,000 Speaker 3: runs crazy. 1079 00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:11,200 Speaker 1: Like I remember I was arguing with a god grew 1080 00:50:11,280 --> 00:50:14,000 Speaker 1: up when he was like, hey, yeah, like you know Obama, 1081 00:50:14,440 --> 00:50:17,279 Speaker 1: like Obama and like Hillary quitling, like they've been impeached. 1082 00:50:18,080 --> 00:50:19,600 Speaker 1: I'm like, when were they impeached? 1083 00:50:19,719 --> 00:50:22,600 Speaker 2: He was like, it's all over Facebook. 1084 00:50:23,040 --> 00:50:26,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, And I was like, because it's all over Facebook, 1085 00:50:26,560 --> 00:50:28,479 Speaker 1: you believe that they were impeached, Like. 1086 00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:31,200 Speaker 2: If they were impeached, why is nobody telling them? 1087 00:50:35,480 --> 00:50:39,040 Speaker 1: Like oh my god? Yeah, So it's like you can't. 1088 00:50:39,640 --> 00:50:42,360 Speaker 2: It's just like yeah, it's. 1089 00:50:42,239 --> 00:50:44,239 Speaker 3: Just it's I think we're just in a space now 1090 00:50:44,239 --> 00:50:46,560 Speaker 3: we're seeing is no longer believing. And I think that's 1091 00:50:46,600 --> 00:50:47,640 Speaker 3: what people haven't realized yet. 1092 00:50:47,640 --> 00:50:48,440 Speaker 4: We're a space. 1093 00:50:48,160 --> 00:50:51,160 Speaker 3: Where seeing is no longer believing because that's what you 1094 00:50:51,160 --> 00:50:52,719 Speaker 3: You can do it with audio for a long time, 1095 00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:54,799 Speaker 3: but now there's a chance of now video and other 1096 00:50:54,840 --> 00:50:56,959 Speaker 3: things happen. So I just think in general, as a people, 1097 00:50:57,000 --> 00:50:59,680 Speaker 3: we got to be a lot more intentional because what 1098 00:50:59,840 --> 00:51:01,520 Speaker 3: you see might not be the truth. 1099 00:51:01,600 --> 00:51:06,640 Speaker 1: But I think that the future would be better off 1100 00:51:06,920 --> 00:51:08,120 Speaker 1: without AI. 1101 00:51:08,760 --> 00:51:10,239 Speaker 4: I don't know about that. I don't know about it. 1102 00:51:10,280 --> 00:51:13,319 Speaker 1: You know why because think about it. Think about ten 1103 00:51:13,400 --> 00:51:17,640 Speaker 1: years ago when it wasn't AI. Yeah, nobody was suffering 1104 00:51:17,640 --> 00:51:20,880 Speaker 1: from anything, you know what I mean, Like you didn't 1105 00:51:21,280 --> 00:51:23,280 Speaker 1: like you might. It might have took you a little 1106 00:51:23,320 --> 00:51:27,200 Speaker 1: bit longer to do stuff, but nobody was suffering. It 1107 00:51:27,200 --> 00:51:28,279 Speaker 1: ain't like you was walking around. 1108 00:51:28,320 --> 00:51:28,480 Speaker 5: Man. 1109 00:51:28,520 --> 00:51:30,440 Speaker 1: I wish I had something that could do everything that 1110 00:51:30,560 --> 00:51:31,239 Speaker 1: I that. 1111 00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:34,200 Speaker 4: You know, like, we're in the wild wild West period. 1112 00:51:34,239 --> 00:51:37,480 Speaker 1: Things need to almost slow down, man, because we're losing 1113 00:51:37,840 --> 00:51:38,719 Speaker 1: our humanity. 1114 00:51:39,160 --> 00:51:39,880 Speaker 4: Yeah, wasn't it. 1115 00:51:39,880 --> 00:51:41,560 Speaker 3: We're in the wild wild West perder right now? Yes, 1116 00:51:41,760 --> 00:51:44,000 Speaker 3: you know, but man, look this this has been an 1117 00:51:44,040 --> 00:51:46,040 Speaker 3: amazing conversation. Before we got out of here, I got 1118 00:51:46,160 --> 00:51:48,839 Speaker 3: one last question for you. You've designed some of the 1119 00:51:48,840 --> 00:51:52,000 Speaker 3: most iconic covers in music and hip hop. You know 1120 00:51:52,080 --> 00:51:54,640 Speaker 3: you've designed you know, you got your whole. You know 1121 00:51:54,640 --> 00:51:58,279 Speaker 3: these amazing sculptures you've designed, the the Black Entertainment Walk 1122 00:51:58,320 --> 00:52:02,399 Speaker 3: of Fame. What is your sixteene chapel? Like, is there 1123 00:52:02,480 --> 00:52:04,839 Speaker 3: something that you have not done yet that you want 1124 00:52:04,880 --> 00:52:06,960 Speaker 3: to do or you feel like, I mean not to 1125 00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:09,040 Speaker 3: say those things don't matter, right, Is there something that 1126 00:52:09,040 --> 00:52:10,759 Speaker 3: would just be like the cherry on top if you 1127 00:52:10,840 --> 00:52:12,560 Speaker 3: ever got a chance to do what you want to do? 1128 00:52:12,800 --> 00:52:16,640 Speaker 2: Yes, And I would say, like a major museum exhibit. 1129 00:52:16,920 --> 00:52:19,080 Speaker 1: Okay, you know, like I think, like to me, like 1130 00:52:19,320 --> 00:52:22,800 Speaker 1: with with everything that I've done, even you know, gone 1131 00:52:22,840 --> 00:52:25,520 Speaker 1: back to like my early days in fashion to now 1132 00:52:25,640 --> 00:52:28,800 Speaker 1: like all of that stuff, like like a major museum 1133 00:52:28,880 --> 00:52:32,839 Speaker 1: exhibit and you know, like I seen like I went 1134 00:52:32,880 --> 00:52:36,480 Speaker 1: to the High and I seen the Virgil Ablow exhibit. Yeah, 1135 00:52:36,480 --> 00:52:37,840 Speaker 1: you know, so what I think about it, Like I 1136 00:52:37,880 --> 00:52:40,440 Speaker 1: love that exhibit. But what I think of everything that 1137 00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:42,719 Speaker 1: I've done over the time span that I've done it, 1138 00:52:42,760 --> 00:52:46,480 Speaker 1: like going back to the early nineties, I could fill 1139 00:52:46,480 --> 00:52:48,719 Speaker 1: that space up. You know. So you see this shirt. 1140 00:52:48,560 --> 00:52:52,200 Speaker 4: Beat this shit, tell go get you to holler at me. 1141 00:52:52,280 --> 00:52:54,480 Speaker 1: Tell the Gogozi in the holler at me. So you know. 1142 00:52:54,560 --> 00:52:56,799 Speaker 1: So if you don't know, you know, but like the 1143 00:52:56,800 --> 00:52:59,040 Speaker 1: Gogosum is a big time museum. Yeah, and so I 1144 00:52:59,160 --> 00:53:00,759 Speaker 1: just make you know. I just make this shirt because 1145 00:53:00,760 --> 00:53:02,320 Speaker 1: I was like, Yo, tell the good ghos and holler 1146 00:53:02,360 --> 00:53:04,920 Speaker 1: at me. But to me, I think it's doing that. 1147 00:53:05,080 --> 00:53:07,280 Speaker 1: I think it's a major museum exhibit. 1148 00:53:07,440 --> 00:53:09,400 Speaker 4: Hey man, well look we're gonna speak into existence. 1149 00:53:09,440 --> 00:53:14,520 Speaker 3: I can't tell the DL Warfield Man Dale. Thank you 1150 00:53:14,560 --> 00:53:16,160 Speaker 3: so much for pulling up on the podcast, and I 1151 00:53:16,239 --> 00:53:19,480 Speaker 3: appreciate you having me man man, amazing, congratulations on everything. 1152 00:53:19,560 --> 00:53:22,720 Speaker 3: Can't wait to see that that major museum exhibit go Gozian. 1153 00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:26,399 Speaker 4: Yes, yes, absolutely, all right, y'all that's the pot. 1154 00:53:26,480 --> 00:53:28,640 Speaker 1: All right. Thank you. 1155 00:53:28,640 --> 00:53:30,920 Speaker 3: You've been listening to button Nomics and I'm your host, 1156 00:53:31,080 --> 00:53:33,719 Speaker 3: Brandon Butler. Comments feedback. Want to be a part of 1157 00:53:33,760 --> 00:53:36,279 Speaker 3: the show, send us an email today at hello at 1158 00:53:36,320 --> 00:53:39,640 Speaker 3: butterdomics dot com. Butter Nomics is produced in Atlanta, Georgia 1159 00:53:39,640 --> 00:53:42,719 Speaker 3: at iHeartMedia by Ramsey, with marketing support from Queen and 1160 00:53:42,760 --> 00:53:46,200 Speaker 3: Naked music provided by mister Hanky if you haven't already, 1161 00:53:46,280 --> 00:53:48,799 Speaker 3: hit that subscribe button and never missed an episode, and 1162 00:53:49,000 --> 00:53:51,120 Speaker 3: be sure to follow us on all our social platforms 1163 00:53:51,160 --> 00:53:54,240 Speaker 3: at butter dot a t L. Listen to button Nomics 1164 00:53:54,280 --> 00:53:57,279 Speaker 3: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get 1165 00:53:57,280 --> 00:53:58,440 Speaker 3: your podcast. 1166 00:54:00,600 --> 00:54:03,200 Speaker 5: Out. Count pump, count out