WEBVTT - Bloomberg Australia: Lessons from the world's cleanest air 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:07.200 Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News. 0:00:08.720 --> 0:00:12.399 Hi, It's sucksha. We published our full interview of Zero 0:00:12.480 --> 0:00:15.760 early this week, looking at what the UK's new Prime Minister, 0:00:15.920 --> 0:00:19.439 Andy Burnham can do to bring down the country's stubbornly 0:00:19.560 --> 0:00:23.520 high energy costs. It's a great conversation with British green 0:00:23.680 --> 0:00:27.800 entrepreneur and political donor Dale Vince. I hope you will 0:00:27.840 --> 0:00:31.320 listen to it. Today we have a bonus episode from 0:00:31.320 --> 0:00:36.120 our sister podcast, Bloomberg Australia. David Stringer, Managing Editor of 0:00:36.200 --> 0:00:39.280 Asia at Bloomberg Green, shares the lessons from one of 0:00:39.320 --> 0:00:43.480 the world's most remote climate observation stations at the edge 0:00:43.520 --> 0:00:46.960 of Tasmania. He also shares the latest on climate and 0:00:47.080 --> 0:00:48.800 energy politics in Australia. 0:00:52.240 --> 0:00:55.800 Hello. I'm Rebecca Joans and this is the Bloomberg Australia podcast, 0:00:55.840 --> 0:00:59.200 where we take you inside the biggest stories defining Australia's 0:00:59.240 --> 0:01:03.360 place in forlobal business. This week, what a Lonely Tower 0:01:03.400 --> 0:01:14.520 in Tazi tells us about the future of the planet. 0:01:14.959 --> 0:01:18.760 On the remote northwestern tip of Tasmania stands a monitoring 0:01:18.800 --> 0:01:22.360 station that samples some of the cleanest air on Earth 0:01:23.080 --> 0:01:26.240 for nearly fifty years, scientists have used it to track 0:01:26.319 --> 0:01:29.800 the changing composition of the atmosphere, making it one of 0:01:29.840 --> 0:01:34.360 the world's most important windows into humanity's impact on the climate. 0:01:35.640 --> 0:01:38.480 David Stringer, who leads climate in the ESG coverage for 0:01:38.480 --> 0:01:42.760 Bloomberg News in Asia, recently visited this station and he 0:01:42.840 --> 0:01:46.680 joins me this week to explain why as governments, businesses 0:01:46.760 --> 0:01:50.680 and investors grapple with a warming planet, the data collected 0:01:50.760 --> 0:01:54.040 here has never been more valuable. David, welcome back to 0:01:54.080 --> 0:01:54.720 the podcast. 0:01:55.080 --> 0:01:56.440 Thanks for having me now. 0:01:56.520 --> 0:01:59.160 As our regular listeners would well know, you and I 0:01:59.280 --> 0:02:02.320 share a disk pod here in the Melbourne newsroom, and 0:02:02.680 --> 0:02:04.880 it was a little while back I couldn't help but 0:02:04.920 --> 0:02:09.880 overhear you booking some pretty cool travel. At first I 0:02:09.880 --> 0:02:13.000 thought you were going on holidays to a climate monitoring station, 0:02:14.240 --> 0:02:16.280 and look, I wouldn't put it past you, but no, 0:02:16.440 --> 0:02:19.040 it was a reporting trip. So David, could you just 0:02:19.080 --> 0:02:22.280 start by painting a picture for us of just how 0:02:22.360 --> 0:02:25.480 secluded this place is and why it's become such a 0:02:25.560 --> 0:02:27.840 lynchpin for global climate science. 0:02:29.000 --> 0:02:29.640 Thanks Rebecca. 0:02:29.680 --> 0:02:33.400 As you said, Cape grim Is is really on the 0:02:33.440 --> 0:02:36.560 northwestern tip of Tasmania, and. 0:02:36.880 --> 0:02:39.280 It really does feel like the edge of the map. 0:02:39.720 --> 0:02:39.960 You know. 0:02:40.280 --> 0:02:43.800 The air pollution station is perched on this sort of 0:02:43.880 --> 0:02:50.600 tossig dotted cliffs overlooking incredibly dramatic crescent shape bay. It's 0:02:50.600 --> 0:02:52.919 a really unspoiled landscape. 0:02:53.200 --> 0:02:54.720 You know. Actually access is limited. 0:02:54.760 --> 0:02:59.440 People can't usually visit there because it's a private agricultural station, 0:03:00.600 --> 0:03:03.119 you know. And the closest population center is the town 0:03:03.160 --> 0:03:06.640 of Smith, and that's a place of about four thousand people. 0:03:06.800 --> 0:03:10.440 That's a forty five minute drive away. And what makes 0:03:10.440 --> 0:03:13.760 this site so special is the thing that you feel 0:03:13.840 --> 0:03:15.919 as soon as you step out of a vehicle, as 0:03:15.919 --> 0:03:19.280 soon as I opened a car door. It's the wind 0:03:19.480 --> 0:03:23.720 gusts that really do whip across the landscape. The lab 0:03:23.800 --> 0:03:27.000 sits within something we call the Roaring forties, the band 0:03:27.080 --> 0:03:31.760 of Southern Hemisphere latitudes that are really known for powerful 0:03:31.840 --> 0:03:35.440 and consistent westerly winds. And there's a story that kind 0:03:35.480 --> 0:03:40.120 of encapsulates why that's important. So this site began its work, 0:03:40.160 --> 0:03:42.960 began its measurements in nineteen seventy six, and it was 0:03:42.960 --> 0:03:46.280 all pretty ramshackle. Part of the laboratory at that time 0:03:46.880 --> 0:03:49.720 was a caravan that had been donated by NASA. They 0:03:49.800 --> 0:03:53.040 actually used it to track the Apollo missions, which they 0:03:53.040 --> 0:03:57.120 did from out back Australia. After about a year, the 0:03:57.160 --> 0:03:59.960 scientists realized that the winds were so strong they needed 0:04:00.080 --> 0:04:03.920 to permanently fix that caravan to the ground because the 0:04:04.000 --> 0:04:07.360 gusts were buffeting it so hard that the vibrations were 0:04:07.400 --> 0:04:12.400 disrupting the measurements. To understand the site's importance, This is 0:04:12.520 --> 0:04:17.800 just one of three premiere global air pollution observatories. There's 0:04:17.880 --> 0:04:22.520 Mana Loa in Hawaii, Alert in the Canadian Arctic and Tasmania, 0:04:23.120 --> 0:04:26.400 and really it's the data from those three places that 0:04:26.520 --> 0:04:31.200 is used by global policymakers and ultimately that's the basis 0:04:31.200 --> 0:04:34.279 of what we understand about how the climate is changing. 0:04:34.600 --> 0:04:36.599 So I was right. You would have gone to that 0:04:36.640 --> 0:04:41.599 place for holiday, wouldn't David. It's often said that the 0:04:41.680 --> 0:04:45.000 air at this station is among the most pristine on 0:04:45.120 --> 0:04:48.000 the planet. Can we look at the long term data, 0:04:48.480 --> 0:04:52.640 what is that telling us about the atmosphere right now? 0:04:53.320 --> 0:04:56.919 That air really is extraordinary and genuinely it is some 0:04:57.000 --> 0:04:59.719 of the cleanest in the world. And when the wind 0:04:59.800 --> 0:05:02.960 can diditions are right, the air reaching to that part 0:05:02.960 --> 0:05:06.880 of Tasmania has traveled literally thousands of kilometers across the 0:05:06.920 --> 0:05:09.240 southern Ocean. Basically, you can think of it all the 0:05:09.240 --> 0:05:12.000 way from the kind of tip of South America, and 0:05:12.040 --> 0:05:15.680 it's passed over the ocean without being disturbed by cities, 0:05:15.800 --> 0:05:20.440 by heavy industry, by pollution sources. That's what makes it valuable. 0:05:20.760 --> 0:05:24.120 It's air that's as close to untainted as you can find. 0:05:24.360 --> 0:05:28.320 The sciences they call it baseline air. Basically it allows 0:05:28.320 --> 0:05:32.000 them to see the underlying signals of climate change. They 0:05:32.000 --> 0:05:35.159 can use measurements of pollutants in that air to see 0:05:35.560 --> 0:05:39.680 what's natural variability, you know, what's a result of seasonal cycles, 0:05:39.960 --> 0:05:44.520 and crucially, what is changing due to human impacts. When 0:05:44.520 --> 0:05:49.080 we think about carbon dioxide, the major greenhouse gas fueling 0:05:49.160 --> 0:05:52.680 climate change, what the data from that site in Tasmania 0:05:52.720 --> 0:05:56.400 shows us is the most extraordinary acceleration of CO two 0:05:56.720 --> 0:06:00.680 from about the Industrial Revolution onwards. You know, scientists compare 0:06:00.760 --> 0:06:05.240 the data since nineteen seventy six to much earlier records 0:06:05.279 --> 0:06:08.920 that they get from from sampling Antarctic ice cools, and 0:06:08.960 --> 0:06:10.160 you can literally see. 0:06:09.960 --> 0:06:10.880 You can chart the change. 0:06:10.880 --> 0:06:13.640 And in fact they have even in Smithton at an 0:06:13.640 --> 0:06:15.679 office they have there on the front of the building, 0:06:15.839 --> 0:06:18.440 they literally have the chart so people who live there 0:06:18.440 --> 0:06:20.920 can see it, and it's hundreds and hundreds of years 0:06:20.960 --> 0:06:23.400 of essentially a flat line, and then around the time 0:06:23.440 --> 0:06:28.520 of the Industrial Revolution, it's incredibly steep vertical line shooting 0:06:28.560 --> 0:06:32.280 upwards and one that isn't yet bending. 0:06:31.960 --> 0:06:37.200 Back down profound and David beyond carbon. They are tracking 0:06:37.240 --> 0:06:40.599 a massive array of pollutants at this station, and that 0:06:40.680 --> 0:06:43.839 in itself is quite a complex task. I did like 0:06:43.880 --> 0:06:46.520 in your story your chat with one of the scientists 0:06:46.560 --> 0:06:48.800 who worked at the station who said that, you know, 0:06:48.880 --> 0:06:51.080 she was still trying to work out how to actually 0:06:51.240 --> 0:06:54.320 use the equipment, which is obviously almost as old as 0:06:54.360 --> 0:06:59.120 she was. How has this decades long record of tracing 0:06:59.520 --> 0:07:03.560 various different guesses shifted the way that we are understanding 0:07:03.600 --> 0:07:05.200 our own environmental footprint? 0:07:05.880 --> 0:07:06.760 Well, that's right. 0:07:06.800 --> 0:07:09.760 That the sample sort of, as it was explained to me, 0:07:09.880 --> 0:07:12.400 sort of about you know, more than one hundred gases, 0:07:12.640 --> 0:07:16.200 air pollutants, aerosols. They look at how even things like 0:07:16.240 --> 0:07:19.040 how how do clouds fam and what impact does that have? 0:07:20.520 --> 0:07:22.280 You get a real center of that at the site. 0:07:22.400 --> 0:07:24.600 You know, I stood up on this sort of weathered 0:07:24.760 --> 0:07:28.840 rooftop deck. You know, there's a spinning anometer. There's masts 0:07:29.160 --> 0:07:33.000 poking up between these mossy wooden platforms, and then towering 0:07:33.040 --> 0:07:36.679 over it all is this eighty meter high telecommunications tower 0:07:37.120 --> 0:07:39.640 near the top has these air vents sucking in that air, 0:07:39.680 --> 0:07:43.520 bringing it through pipes and into these scientific equipment, you know, machines, 0:07:43.720 --> 0:07:45.520 some of which, as you say, are sort of you 0:07:45.520 --> 0:07:48.280 know at this point fifty years old. There's a great 0:07:48.360 --> 0:07:51.400 example that the scientists give of like how has that 0:07:51.440 --> 0:07:54.560 had an impact? You know, how is this monitoring changed things? 0:07:55.000 --> 0:07:58.320 From the late nineteen eighties there was huge global success 0:07:58.360 --> 0:08:05.480 in limiting ozone depleting chlorophor carbons CFCs. Now Cape grim 0:08:05.560 --> 0:08:08.720 was was one of the sites that detected this unexpected 0:08:09.160 --> 0:08:13.840 slowdown in the rate of reduction of emissions in about 0:08:13.880 --> 0:08:19.040 twenty twelve, and that was in CFC eleven, really potent pollutant. Now, 0:08:19.280 --> 0:08:23.120 eventually that anomaly was traced back to eastern China. The 0:08:23.160 --> 0:08:26.640 government in Beijing acted essentially they fixed the problem and 0:08:26.680 --> 0:08:29.080 then you can see that curve begin to bend back down. 0:08:29.200 --> 0:08:31.520 You know, it was a problem that was detected and 0:08:31.600 --> 0:08:33.080 solved all. 0:08:32.880 --> 0:08:35.120 Within less than a decade. 0:08:35.280 --> 0:08:38.240 And so that's a really good vivid illustration of the 0:08:38.280 --> 0:08:39.560 impact that their work can have. 0:08:40.400 --> 0:08:44.560 David, climate science is often at the mercy of political whims. 0:08:44.559 --> 0:08:47.680 As we know, we've seen funding shifts happen in the 0:08:47.800 --> 0:08:51.439 US recently. How is the financial support for this kind 0:08:51.480 --> 0:08:53.520 of research holding up in Australia. 0:08:54.280 --> 0:08:57.719 Well, you're right, globally, the most dramatic impacts we've seen 0:08:57.760 --> 0:08:59.520 have been in the US. You know, we've seen funding 0:08:59.559 --> 0:09:04.240 for climate research reduced quite dramatically. We've seen the kinds 0:09:04.240 --> 0:09:08.880 of information even that government funded agencies can publicize altered. 0:09:09.600 --> 0:09:11.920 It's not that everywhere else is immune to those pressures. 0:09:11.960 --> 0:09:15.480 I mean here in Australia, scientists talk about, you know, 0:09:15.720 --> 0:09:19.760 coming under pressure even as the government actually increases overall 0:09:19.800 --> 0:09:23.800 funding for the national agency, the Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial 0:09:23.840 --> 0:09:28.319 Research Organization. You know, the CSIRO has been criticized by 0:09:28.320 --> 0:09:32.520 staff for plans to cut research roles. It's been criticized 0:09:32.559 --> 0:09:36.280 over changes to the way it produces climate modeling. All 0:09:36.320 --> 0:09:39.760 of that, even as that total share of funding does increase. 0:09:40.360 --> 0:09:42.760 You know, Now when it comes to this site in Tasmania, 0:09:43.200 --> 0:09:46.800 it's jointly operated by the Bureau of Meteorology and CSIRO, 0:09:47.040 --> 0:09:50.720 and it isn't a location that's expected to be to 0:09:50.760 --> 0:09:53.559 be impacted. But you know, even here in Australia when 0:09:53.600 --> 0:09:57.360 the the atmosphere, if you forgive the pun and you 0:09:57.400 --> 0:09:59.120 know around climate funding is more. 0:09:59.000 --> 0:10:02.320 Benign, not immune. We are seeing changes in the science. 0:10:03.000 --> 0:10:04.960 Let's stick with policy for a moment. You know, the 0:10:04.960 --> 0:10:09.520 Albanesi government has stepped up with some more ambitious admissions 0:10:09.600 --> 0:10:13.880 targets David, between the rise of electric vehicles and new 0:10:13.920 --> 0:10:18.600 storage projects. Are we seeing these changes actually move the needle? 0:10:18.800 --> 0:10:22.920 Yet we are seeing some impact. Is it moving the needle? 0:10:23.120 --> 0:10:25.080 Is it moving the needle enough? I think those are 0:10:25.160 --> 0:10:26.800 questions that it's probably too. 0:10:26.679 --> 0:10:29.199 Early to say. But what we do know is that. 0:10:29.200 --> 0:10:33.640 Australia's annual greenhouse gas emissions fell about two percent last 0:10:33.720 --> 0:10:37.200 year and that was largely the result of more renewable energy, 0:10:37.760 --> 0:10:41.280 less use of fossil fuels and the accelerating adoption of 0:10:41.360 --> 0:10:45.120 electric vehicles. And when it comes to evs, we've seen 0:10:45.160 --> 0:10:47.920 that since then, since the end of last year, that 0:10:48.000 --> 0:10:52.000 adoption rate has increased only further. Australia will need to 0:10:52.080 --> 0:10:55.760 sustain momentum. You know, Albanesi's government has pledged to reduce 0:10:55.760 --> 0:10:59.839 emissions between sixty two and seventy percent of two thousand 0:11:00.120 --> 0:11:03.240 five levels by twenty thirty five. To get that, they 0:11:03.320 --> 0:11:05.640 have to go further, They have to do more, and 0:11:05.679 --> 0:11:09.920 that's not a given, particularly because support for those ambitions 0:11:10.000 --> 0:11:14.080 is waning at best among Australia's opposition parties. You know, 0:11:14.160 --> 0:11:18.200 the main Liberal National Coalition has pledged to dump Australia's 0:11:18.200 --> 0:11:20.640 net zero target. You know, it says that it's destroying 0:11:20.840 --> 0:11:21.840 Australia's economy. 0:11:22.240 --> 0:11:24.320 Yeah, look, I mean I think it is important to 0:11:24.360 --> 0:11:26.800 stay with that friction point just for a moment, because 0:11:26.840 --> 0:11:30.240 I am interested too in how the government is navigating 0:11:30.280 --> 0:11:33.080 some of the more vocal pushback that we've seen coming 0:11:33.120 --> 0:11:36.520 from the One Nation party of recent times. 0:11:36.720 --> 0:11:39.640 Well, that's right, and you know, globally we've seen parties, 0:11:39.679 --> 0:11:43.360 particularly on the political right, push back much harder than 0:11:43.360 --> 0:11:47.439 before against targets to curb emissions and against the costs 0:11:47.440 --> 0:11:51.440 of decarbonization. And One Nation certainly has been far more 0:11:51.600 --> 0:11:55.440 vocal than we've seen previously in Australia, certainly more vocal 0:11:55.840 --> 0:11:58.760 and more explicit than the Liberal National Coalition. You know, 0:11:58.800 --> 0:12:02.560 One Nation says austral early as climate plans are economic suicide. 0:12:02.960 --> 0:12:06.440 It says that you know, it openly questions the scientific 0:12:06.480 --> 0:12:10.920 consensus on global warming and actually makes a virtue, you know, 0:12:11.000 --> 0:12:14.080 as it says, of being the only party to question 0:12:14.360 --> 0:12:15.120 climate science. 0:12:25.679 --> 0:12:28.840 Finally, David, Australia is also positioning itself for a major 0:12:28.920 --> 0:12:32.360 role in an upcoming UN Climate talks, albeit through a 0:12:32.400 --> 0:12:37.320 somewhat unique strategy. I'm interested in what that roadmap looks 0:12:37.400 --> 0:12:41.120 like now and also how the Prime Minister is intending 0:12:41.240 --> 0:12:45.640 on engaging with Pacific leaders, who of course are all 0:12:45.679 --> 0:12:48.679 in this region with US bigger countries like Australia and 0:12:48.679 --> 0:12:49.280 New Zealand. 0:12:49.920 --> 0:12:53.000 Well sorry, well Australia was hoping to host this year's 0:12:53.280 --> 0:12:56.680 big annual global Climate Summit COP thirty one as it's known, 0:12:56.880 --> 0:12:59.600 but ultimately lost out in what was a pretty contentious 0:13:00.280 --> 0:13:04.320 process to Turkey. So the result is quite an unusual arrangement. 0:13:04.440 --> 0:13:07.920 The talks themselves will take place in Antalia in Turkey 0:13:08.000 --> 0:13:12.000 in November, and yet it is Australian officials who will 0:13:12.000 --> 0:13:14.360 be in charge of the process of negotiations, and in 0:13:14.400 --> 0:13:17.600 fact Chris Bowie, in Australia's Climate Change and Energy Minister, 0:13:17.800 --> 0:13:21.119 he'll be the President of negotiations. That's a pretty unenviable 0:13:21.160 --> 0:13:25.199 task getting consensus on climate action among about two hundred nations, 0:13:25.440 --> 0:13:29.320 but it's one that he says that he's relishing. Part 0:13:29.360 --> 0:13:34.079 of Australia's rationale for bidding in the first place was 0:13:34.320 --> 0:13:38.200 really to shine a spotlight on Pacific island nations. But 0:13:38.240 --> 0:13:40.200 you know, we've seen the Prime Minister talking just in 0:13:40.200 --> 0:13:42.360 the past couple of days to some of those specific leaders, 0:13:42.600 --> 0:13:45.080 and what they'll really want to see is not just talk, 0:13:45.320 --> 0:13:48.120 not just meetings. They need more money, and they need 0:13:48.160 --> 0:13:49.840 more support, and they need it now. 0:13:50.800 --> 0:13:52.520 And what do you think the odds of them getting 0:13:52.559 --> 0:13:55.400 any sort of resolution on any of those asks? 0:13:55.559 --> 0:13:57.959 H I think it is going to be a pretty 0:13:58.000 --> 0:14:01.360 difficult ask to as it is in any of these 0:14:01.400 --> 0:14:06.320 global climate negotiations, to significantly increase support and particularly financial 0:14:06.320 --> 0:14:10.600 support for the entire developing world, not just the Pacific. 0:14:10.800 --> 0:14:13.640 But I think what they'll hope is they can show 0:14:13.880 --> 0:14:16.520 what the reality is on the ground and the kinds 0:14:16.520 --> 0:14:19.240 of impacts they're experiencing right now, and. 0:14:19.200 --> 0:14:22.240 The happenings at Cape Grim are part of that process 0:14:22.280 --> 0:14:22.720 as well. 0:14:22.920 --> 0:14:23.400 That's right. 0:14:23.960 --> 0:14:26.520 The only way we can know how the climate is 0:14:26.640 --> 0:14:29.720 changing is to measure it, to have that record, and 0:14:29.760 --> 0:14:32.680 to see it in the data that's produced in places 0:14:32.720 --> 0:14:33.520 like Tasmania. 0:14:36.800 --> 0:14:40.080 You can read David's story this weekend on Bloomberg Weekend, 0:14:40.280 --> 0:14:43.440 available at Bloomberg dot com for subscribers and on the 0:14:43.480 --> 0:14:47.400 Bloomberg terminal. If you found today's conversation insightful, be sure 0:14:47.480 --> 0:14:50.800 to follow the Bloomberg Australia podcast wherever you listen. This 0:14:50.880 --> 0:14:54.040 episode is recorded on the traditional lands of the Wandery 0:14:54.160 --> 0:14:57.400 People who was edited by Chris Burg and produced by 0:14:57.600 --> 0:15:00.920 Justin Millaner special thanks go out to end Johnson. I'm 0:15:00.960 --> 0:15:02.960 Rebecca Jones. We'll see you next week.