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Speaker 1: Hi, guys, Welcome to an all new episode of Legally Brunettes.

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Speaker 1: I will be your host today, Emily Simpson with Shane.

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Speaker 1: With Shane. A lot of you reached out to me

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Speaker 1: and you said, have you seen the new documentary on Netflix?

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Speaker 1: It's about Lucy let Be. She's a nurse, and I

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Speaker 1: had seen it pop up, And so after several of

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Speaker 1: you were dming and asking about it, I decided to

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Speaker 1: watch it and kind of take a deep dive into it.

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Speaker 1: I will tell you, I still don't know what I

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Speaker 1: think about Lucy let Bee, whether I think that she's

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Speaker 1: guilty or not, but we are going to get into

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Speaker 1: and we're going to discuss it. So, Lucy Leppie was

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Speaker 1: a neonatal nurse at Countess of Chester Hospital. I also,

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Speaker 1: can I just comment on how much I love the

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Speaker 1: names of English hospitals. It sounds so proper. Yeah, Like

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Speaker 1: here the hospital is called Hogue, right, but this is

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Speaker 1: called the Countess of.

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Speaker 2: Chester Hospital, and isn't there courts the crown.

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Speaker 1: Yes, it's all very dignified. It's very very polished, to

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Speaker 1: dignified and proper. She was convicted of murdering seven infants

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Speaker 1: and attempting to kill six others between the years twenty

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Speaker 1: fifteen and twenty sixteen. Prosecutors argued that a sharp rise

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Speaker 1: in unexplained baby deaths and medical collapses in the unit

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Speaker 1: occurred while she was on duty, alleging that she deliberately

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Speaker 1: harmed infants. After a lengthy trial that began in twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty two, I believe her trial was six months. Maybe

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Speaker 1: maybe it was nine. It was long.

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Speaker 2: She was a jury.

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Speaker 1: Yes, she was found guilty in twenty twenty three and

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Speaker 1: sentenced to a whole life order. See that's another way

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Speaker 1: that they say it. They say whole life order basically

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Speaker 1: like your whole life.

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Speaker 2: I'm glad this sits well with you. I like it.

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Speaker 1: I like that, I like the language. A whole life order,

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Speaker 1: which is the most severe punishment under British law, with

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Speaker 1: no possibility of parole. The case has drawn significant public

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Speaker 1: and media attention and has remained in the subject of

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Speaker 1: appeals and ongoing inquiries. I do know that she currently

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Speaker 1: is in prison. We do know that she was convicted

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Speaker 1: in twenty twenty three. Her defense has now working towards

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Speaker 1: getting her another appeal. I think she's exhausted a couple

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Speaker 1: appeals with the Court of Appeals. But then there's a

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Speaker 1: different route that you can take where you can submit.

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Speaker 2: Before, which seems like a tough call because there's seven

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Speaker 2: well there's thirteen convictions. Yeah, so I don't know. I mean,

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Speaker 2: you can overturn one or find one to be you know, doubtful,

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Speaker 2: but then there's others because I think she has a

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Speaker 2: whole life sentence for each of those counts.

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Speaker 1: I believe there's like fifteen sentences.

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Speaker 2: So unless you can find something that makes the whole

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Speaker 2: like throughout the whole trial, right, you'd have to like

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Speaker 2: find a way to negate the conviction of fifteen different counts.

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Speaker 1: Well that's where her defense is at now because they've

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Speaker 1: commissioned a whole you know, task force basically of professionals

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Speaker 1: and experts that have written these reports. So we'll get

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Speaker 1: to that. But the case is now being reviewed by

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Speaker 1: the CCRC, So that's her kind of last hope. So

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Speaker 1: all right, let's talk about Lucy's early life. So Lucy

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Speaker 1: Letby was born and only child to John and Susan

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Speaker 1: let Be in Hereford, England and January of nineteen ninety.

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Speaker 1: Those who knew her describe her as a quiet and

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Speaker 1: reserved and said it was obvious from early on that

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Speaker 1: she would pursue a career as a pediatric nurse. In

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Speaker 1: twenty eleven, Lucy let Be began working in the neo

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Speaker 1: natal unit at Countess of Chester Hospital in Cheshire, England.

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Speaker 1: Lucy's close friend that attended nursing school with her claimed

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Speaker 1: that this hospital was very clicky and that the other

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Speaker 1: nurses and staff were mean to Lucy because she was

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Speaker 1: quirky and shy. You know, during the documentary she talks

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Speaker 1: about this friend. Also, you know what's interesting that they

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Speaker 1: can do now, do you know? When you watch documentary

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Speaker 1: previously and they wanted to preserve someone's identity, so they

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Speaker 1: made them anonymous. They would just make them like a black,

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Speaker 1: shadowy figure and then they would change their voice, and

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Speaker 1: then they would make it like that probably kind of voice.

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Speaker 1: They don't do that. I'm watching this documentary. They enhance

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Speaker 1: it with AI so they make her look like a

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Speaker 1: totally different person.

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Speaker 2: I guess they try to put a real face on there,

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Speaker 2: but her real.

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Speaker 1: Face because she wants anonymity.

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Speaker 2: I actually looked like you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know, but it's so bizarre because up

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Speaker 1: in the corner it'll say something about like enhanced with

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Speaker 1: AI or something to preserve anonymity.

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Speaker 2: Well, what they do with the voice, they digitally.

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Speaker 1: Enhance it to make it sound like someone different. And

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Speaker 1: I guess they took her look she's like a she's

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Speaker 1: a friend.

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Speaker 2: Of Lucy Levy. It looks like someone And then they

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Speaker 2: just accused.

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Speaker 1: You don't know how you get AI to make it

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Speaker 1: look like no one else in the world so that

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Speaker 1: you're not defeated someone else. At some point, it's very.

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Speaker 2: AI for defamation.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. At the Countess of Chester Hospital, the infant mortality

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Speaker 1: rates in the unit were considered statistically in line with

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Speaker 1: comparable hospitals. But this was before twenty fifteen. So really

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Speaker 1: the focus of this trial and the focus of Lucy

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Speaker 1: let be and the issue of whether or not she

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Speaker 1: is overtly doing things to cause a significant number of

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Speaker 1: babies to collapse or die.

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Speaker 2: Collapse meanings not is that another English term?

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Speaker 1: They collapse. They use the word collapse, but that means die.

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Speaker 1: Is it's really they focus on the years twenty fifteen

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Speaker 1: twenty sixteen.

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Speaker 2: This collapse mean more of a kind of a natural

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Speaker 2: medical death as opposed to like a murder. He collapsed her.

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Speaker 1: Well, I think that's what the term that the hospital

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Speaker 1: uses is supposed to be, like a nice way of

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Speaker 1: saying that the baby didn't survive, so the baby's collapsed.

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Speaker 1: Prosecutors later argued that seven of the infants, which was

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Speaker 1: five boys and two girls, were murdered during this period.

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Speaker 1: So the issue, the main issue of this whole case

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Speaker 1: is whether Lucy let Be was overtly doing things when

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Speaker 1: she had these babies under her care to induce them

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Speaker 1: to die, or whether it is just circumstantial as to

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Speaker 1: the hospital, the babies just weren't well. They would have

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Speaker 1: collapsed anyway, And so that's the main issue, and it's

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Speaker 1: very very divided. And you know what Else's case reminded

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Speaker 1: me of when I was watching it and it showed

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Speaker 1: a lot of the headlines that had to do with

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Speaker 1: Lucy let Be before she went to trial. It reminded

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Speaker 1: me very much of Amanda Knox, where she had so

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Speaker 1: much public scrutiny guilty. She was already guilty because remember

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Speaker 1: how they would flash all on the inquiry and there's.

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Speaker 2: No other suspect, right, she was the only one they

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Speaker 2: looked into as.

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Speaker 1: So Amanda Knox was just her face and her image

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Speaker 1: was splashed all.

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Speaker 2: Over Here's a crazy lady that murdered her roommate, and

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Speaker 2: now is here's a crazy nurse that killed all these babies.

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Speaker 1: Right, So to me, it was just it looked it

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Speaker 1: reminded me very much of Amanda Knox, how it was

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Speaker 1: a public scrutiny trial, how it was just splashing her

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Speaker 1: face all over the part.

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Speaker 2: I've always had a problem with that because it's like, oh,

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Speaker 2: innocent before guilty, but then show the suspect, not the criminal,

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Speaker 2: the suspect. So then you show him or her all

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Speaker 2: over the place, and then let's say they're found not guilty.

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Speaker 2: Well the news is done and they're going to move

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Speaker 2: on to the next person, and then that person's face

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Speaker 2: was everywhere.

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Speaker 1: Well, so it is.

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Speaker 2: It is bothersome, I think, right.

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Speaker 1: And the way they show it is like, you know,

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Speaker 1: baby killer and you know serial killer, most prolific baby

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Speaker 1: serial killer of all of history.

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Speaker 2: And then her face that was after conviction, that would

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Speaker 2: make a little bit more sense.

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Speaker 1: Well, I think it was before and after. I think

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Speaker 1: already when she had been arrested and she was being

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Speaker 1: put on trial for these a legend, you know, collapses

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Speaker 1: of all these children, the media is just splashing her

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Speaker 1: face every where with like serial killer, baby killer. So

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Speaker 1: it just reminded me very much of a man of knocks.

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Speaker 1: How I don't even know if you can get a

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Speaker 1: fair trial with a jury pool when obviously the media

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Speaker 1: has convicted her before. And you know, the average person,

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Speaker 1: like we talk about, the average person, does not read

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Speaker 1: the article and try to discern thing and look at

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Speaker 1: facts and really try to make a decision. They see

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Speaker 1: the cover of a magazine, they see her face and

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Speaker 1: baby killer. That's that's all you need.

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Speaker 2: So it's good enough for me.

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Speaker 1: Right, because you're one of those people.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's average.

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Speaker 1: It's like when all this I will tell you guys

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Speaker 1: out there listening, if you see an article on Facebook

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Speaker 1: that has to do with a housewife, chances of it

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Speaker 1: being true are slim to none.

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Speaker 2: I don't even click on anything, even if it's world

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Speaker 2: news anymore. It's like, well, that sounds pretty bad. If

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Speaker 2: it's true, then I'll hear about it from multiple sources.

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Speaker 1: It's just crazy to me how all these articles come

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Speaker 1: up now on Facebook. There was one I saw that

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Speaker 1: said that you beat me, and then it showed a

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Speaker 1: photo of me when I had a face because I

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Speaker 1: had black eyes. So anyway, stay away from Facebook art.

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Speaker 2: It's very true to have a new podcast partner.

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Speaker 1: Internal concerns were starting to be raised. This is in

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Speaker 1: the twenty fifteen to twenty sixteen timeframe. A senior doctor

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Speaker 1: testified that he raised concerns to the hospital leadership team

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Speaker 1: about let Be during twenty fifteen and twenty sixteen. In

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Speaker 1: one account, he said that he observed her standing by

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Speaker 1: an infant whose oxygen levels were dropping and she was

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Speaker 1: not intervening. Other staff testified about unusual behavior that had

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Speaker 1: to do with Lucy, allegations that she discouraged coworkers from

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Speaker 1: assisting during emergencies, and claims that she spent time with

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Speaker 1: babies she was not assigned to. Also testimony that she

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Speaker 1: wrote a sympathy card to parents of a baby she

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Speaker 1: was accused of harming. I don't know. You can take

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Speaker 1: those things and turn them around into something odd, or

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Speaker 1: you can turn them around and look at it from

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Speaker 1: a different perspective and think that if she wrote a

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Speaker 1: sympathy card to someone, maybe it was because she was

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Speaker 1: sympathetic that somebody lost a baby. And I don't know.

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Speaker 2: That's what then that's what it should say, because I

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Speaker 2: always like tell kids like I'm like, okay, say you're sorry,

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Speaker 2: and it's like I didn't mean to do it, I know.

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Speaker 2: But you can say i'm sorry you got hurt, I'm

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Speaker 2: sorry it was an accident. So I don't know if

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Speaker 2: she should have. So it can't go both ways. An

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Speaker 2: apology doesn't always mean I did it. It might just

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Speaker 2: mean I'm sorry for the circumstances.

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Speaker 1: Right, So we get to July of twenty sixteen, Lucy

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Speaker 1: was removed from the neonatal unit and transferred to administrative

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Speaker 1: roles within the hospital's risk and Patient Safety office. Okay,

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Speaker 1: that has to put you on notice immediately that something's

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Speaker 1: coming down the pipeline when you're a nurse and that's

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Speaker 1: your specialty is dealing with neonatal and dealing with babies,

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Speaker 1: and they remove you from that and they're like, that's

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Speaker 1: like when you're a police officer and you know, oh.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like give me your gun and badge, yeah, hand,

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Speaker 2: everything's fine.

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Speaker 1: Now you're just going to answer the phone and just

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Speaker 1: some administrative tasks. So obviously she's put on notice that

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Speaker 1: something's coming down the pipeline and that they're.

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Speaker 2: Thinking I don't think that. I never thought that that

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Speaker 2: was a secret. I thought like when she was put

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Speaker 2: on clinical whatever probation or whatever it's called, I think

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Speaker 2: she was aware of the investigation.

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Speaker 1: She was also sending emails asking for more information because

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Speaker 1: she said she had such high anxiety about what was

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Speaker 1: going on.

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Speaker 2: She so I had to prepare my defense.

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Speaker 1: Tell me what's going on. Lucy remained employed by the

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Speaker 1: Countess of Chester Hospital NHS Foundation Trust in this capacity

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Speaker 1: until her first arrest in July of twenty eighteen, at

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Speaker 1: which point she was then suspended.

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Speaker 2: Her first arrest.

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Speaker 1: The first time she was arrested, I guess they were

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Speaker 1: unable to keep her because they didn't have enough evidence.

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Speaker 1: The second time she.

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Speaker 2: Supposed to bail, they didn't learn their lessons.

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Speaker 1: No, And then the third time, I believe they felt

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Speaker 1: like they had enough evidence to support the allegation that

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Speaker 1: she was overtly doing something. So her trial begins in

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Speaker 1: October of twenty twenty two. So now we are and

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Speaker 1: here we are in October of twenty twenty two. Actually

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Speaker 1: they show her being arrested. I believe it's a third

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Speaker 1: time in the documentary when they show her being arrested

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Speaker 1: and they're so polite when they come in. They come

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Speaker 1: in and they're like hello, good.

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Speaker 2: They bring crumpets and tea, just like hello, we're here.

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Speaker 1: Is Lucy here and the poor.

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Speaker 2: Mom helping her pack, and you know they.

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Speaker 1: Have the police, uh you know.

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Speaker 3: You're pointing their chests out, you know, the police the

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Speaker 3: cam body can body cam.

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Speaker 1: Yes, so they're you know, we get to see it all.

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Speaker 1: And they arrive and she's like up in her bedroom.

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Speaker 1: The mom her mom is wailing in the background, just wailing.

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Speaker 2: The third arrest, right, I.

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Speaker 1: Believe this is the third arrest that they show in

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Speaker 1: the dark.

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Speaker 2: At some point I would be a little common. I'm like, yeah, okay,

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Speaker 2: you tried this before. You don't have any evidence.

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Speaker 1: Well, she's actually very calm for someone that's been arrested

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Speaker 1: three times. I mean, she's just kind of sitting in

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Speaker 1: her bedroom under the covers, and they just they like

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Speaker 1: knock on her bedroom door and they're like, hello, Lucy,

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Speaker 1: you know, do you want to get dressed? Let's go,

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Speaker 1: We're going to be on our way. October of twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty two, Lucy's child began at the Manchester Crown Court.

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Speaker 1: She pleaded not guilty to twenty two charges. These charges

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Speaker 1: included seven murders and multiple attempted murders. There were notable

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Speaker 1: cases that were referenced by the prosecution in court. You know,

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Speaker 1: they named all the children. They were all kind of

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Speaker 1: named by letters. So there were two triplets.

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Speaker 2: Mean for purposes of the prosecution.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, Child O and Child P that had died,

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Speaker 1: and a third triplet, Child H, had allegedly survived two

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Speaker 1: attempts and recovered after being transferred. Child G survived three

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Speaker 1: alleged attacks but later suffered severe and permanent brain injury.

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Speaker 1: Child B experienced rapid deterioration after her twin brother had

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Speaker 1: already died, and Child EA's mother testified that she found

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Speaker 1: her baby bleeding and distressed. Concerns were allegedly dismissed at

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Speaker 1: the time, so.

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Speaker 2: They weren't consistent causes of death.

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Speaker 1: No, and prosecutors stated that at least seventeen collapses were

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Speaker 1: not medically explainable. So really, I had to I read

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Speaker 1: several articles about this because SIDS, Yeah, a sudden infinite

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Speaker 1: death syndrome. Yeah, so I was trying.

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Speaker 2: To break down which is unexplainable, inexplainable.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there's actually you've met Alan before with the Innocence Center.

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Speaker 1: He was convicted many many years ago and spent many

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Speaker 1: years in jail for ACIDS type of situation and it

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Speaker 1: ended up being proven later after the fact that he

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Speaker 1: had nothing to do.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think he's not the only one. I

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Speaker 2: think that's yeah. They've come to learn that sometimes. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And then they find consistencies in these SIDS cases, like

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Speaker 2: certain patterns of kind of how they are in their nursery,

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Speaker 2: in their home, which is not negligence, it's just there's

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Speaker 2: a consistency there.

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Speaker 1: Colleagues testified that sudden infant de interiory were happening while

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Speaker 1: Lucy was on duty. The prosecution presented a chart that

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Speaker 1: showed Lucy Leppie was at the hospital during every infant fatality.

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Speaker 1: So her new defense team claims that she was present

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Speaker 1: not only because she worked more, but also because she

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Speaker 1: was more qualified than the other nurses, or she had

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Speaker 1: like specified education and she was more experienced. But then

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Speaker 1: you know, the prosecution comes back and says that though

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Speaker 1: she had taken extra courses, she was still labeled what's

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Speaker 1: called a Band five nurse, which in the UK is

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Speaker 1: the entry level grade for newly qualified registered nurses, and

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Speaker 1: that there were other nurses in the neonatal ward that

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Speaker 1: were banned six and banned seven, meaning that they were

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Speaker 1: more qualified than Lucy. So again, lots of arguments on

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Speaker 1: both sides.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, again, there's no going back to the beginning when

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Speaker 2: you said you're uncertain, and then you asked my prediction

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Speaker 2: what your judgment would be. It fucking makes sense to that.

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Speaker 2: But then it's like, if you're on, then that's the answer.

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Speaker 2: You're uncertain and there's enough doubt and she shouldn't be convicted.

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Speaker 1: I know, But sometimes I feel like once we go

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Speaker 1: through this, and.

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Speaker 2: I know I was just saying, like I was just

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Speaker 2: pointing out that there's a significant amount of doubt that

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Speaker 2: you have.

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Speaker 1: However, some Stetisians find the prosecution's chart to be very skewed,

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Speaker 1: as it seemed to pick and choose which staff was added.

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Speaker 1: There were other doctors and staff that were not included

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Speaker 1: in the chart. Why were they not included? That's the question.

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Speaker 1: Expert witnesses stated. Some overfeeding incidents could not have been accidental.

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Speaker 1: You know, the prosecution was alleging that she was overfeeding babies,

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Speaker 1: which I guess would like overfeeding them with milk, but.

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Speaker 2: Not for purposes of killing, right, just like she was

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Speaker 2: improperly No.

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Speaker 1: I think with purposes of harming them. If you overfeed

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Speaker 1: someone with milk, think about you know, the people that

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Speaker 1: have died because they drink too much water. You remember

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Speaker 1: there was a case where someone didn't they.

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Speaker 2: Run or something a number of cases. Yeah, yeah, So.

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Speaker 1: I'm just saying, if you pump a baby full, if

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Speaker 1: you're feeding, if you're overfeeding a baby milk that's tiny

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Speaker 1: and just born and mighty, be having some issues that

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Speaker 1: could lead to death.

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Speaker 2: So that was a plus. That should be a minimal

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Speaker 2: skill that a nurse is aware of, right, how much

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Speaker 2: they should be fed.

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Speaker 1: Prosecutors argued that air embolism was also used in multiple cases.

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Speaker 1: This was with baby O.

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Speaker 2: I actually injecting air into their blood stream or something.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so they really if you look really at baby Oh,

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Speaker 1: the prosecution accuses her of injecting air into the blood

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Speaker 1: of baby Oh, which that type of blockage is called

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Speaker 1: an air embolism. So that's what the prosecution was saying.

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Speaker 1: Then you know, and I guess a trait of air

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Speaker 1: embolism is that the baby's skin becomes discolored, and I

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Speaker 1: think there were several babies that had skin discoloration. So

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Speaker 1: that's what they were saying, that someone had to overtly

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Speaker 1: inject air.

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Speaker 2: But I'm going to guess the skin discoloration doesn't isn't

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Speaker 2: conclusive that that was the cause of death. It's just

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00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:56,639
Speaker 2: that's a symptom, but it's probably also a symptom that

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Speaker 2: arises from other causes of death.

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Speaker 1: Right, So, Dowie Evans, who is the main expert witness

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Speaker 1: used by the prosecution, has been accused of being an

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Speaker 1: unreliable expert witness. Doctor Evans claimed that many of these

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Speaker 1: newborns died by air embolism, citing so he used so

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Speaker 1: this doctor that was an expert for the prosecution used

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Speaker 1: a research paper written by doctor Shu Lee back in

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Speaker 1: nineteen eighty nine. So that's where he claims that it

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Speaker 1: was the embolism. It was air embolism. The air was

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Speaker 1: directly I guess, inserted into a vein or something, and

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Speaker 1: then the baby's.

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Speaker 2: I've always heard that if you have a syringe that's

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Speaker 2: empty instous air and you pump it into someone, it

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Speaker 2: could result in death.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Here's my other question though, and this is I

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Speaker 1: don't really understand. I understand that this hospital was small

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Speaker 1: and understaffed. I don't think it was medically up to date.

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Speaker 1: It probably needed new equipment and things like that. But

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Speaker 1: why did they not have cameras?

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Speaker 2: Do hospital? Where do you want the cameras in.

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Speaker 1: The neonatal unit.

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Speaker 2: You've got babies.

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Speaker 1: There's always issh with babies being kidnapped. Why are there

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Speaker 1: not security cameras and all of this? And it's a

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Speaker 1: very small.

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00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:08,479
Speaker 2: Do we know that there were on cameras or are

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Speaker 2: you just assuming there was?

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Speaker 1: I'm assuming there's no cameras because.

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Speaker 2: A camera show that she fed the baby too many ounces.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, they also they also alleged that she injected

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Speaker 1: them with insulin. So I'm saying, if she's doing these

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Speaker 1: things like injecting a baby with insulin or overfeeding or

390
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Speaker 1: injecting error into their veins for then wouldn't there be

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Speaker 1: something on a camera. I don't know, or it would

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Speaker 1: deter her from doing that. I mean, I just don't

393
00:19:37,119 --> 00:19:39,560
Speaker 1: understand where there's no security cameras in this hospital where

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Speaker 1: it's a neonatal unit where you have babies.

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Speaker 2: That's on the assumption that all hospitals have cameras in

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Speaker 2: this one doesn't. We don't know what if that's not

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Speaker 2: what if it's a private s thing. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Dowie Evans claimed many of these newborns died by

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Speaker 1: air embolism, citing doctor Shoeley's research on the subject. However,

400
00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:01,840
Speaker 1: doctor Shoeley, the man that wrote this this paper, was

401
00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:05,680
Speaker 1: then contacted by the defense and then he went through

402
00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:10,720
Speaker 1: each case by himself, each case of the babies dying,

403
00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:16,520
Speaker 1: along with fourteen other neonatal experts, and they determined that

404
00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:19,479
Speaker 1: none of the infants died from air embolism. However, this

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00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:21,480
Speaker 1: is after the fact that I believe this was after

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Speaker 1: she was convicted. So this is her defense preparing.

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Speaker 2: To challenge to challenge it right.

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00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:32,000
Speaker 1: Also, handwritten notes found by Lucy Letby and her home

409
00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:36,919
Speaker 1: were presented. Some contain self critical statements and references to

410
00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:40,399
Speaker 1: harming babies, like I did this. I am evil. You know,

411
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Speaker 1: I don't know how I did.

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Speaker 2: You just say, where was that said?

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Speaker 1: So when they searched her home, she liked to journal,

414
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Speaker 1: so she wrote a lot and I guess they found

415
00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:53,439
Speaker 1: a lot of journals and scribbles and she wrote, I

416
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Speaker 1: did this, I am evil.

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Speaker 2: Self incriminating, probably don't want to be right in that others.

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Speaker 1: But she also wrote things like, you know, she also

419
00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:08,600
Speaker 1: questioned why she was being accused, like writing, I am innocent.

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Speaker 1: Why are they doing this to me? I don't know

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Speaker 1: how how profound that is. If someone's just journaling a

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00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:21,080
Speaker 1: stream of consciousness or whatever in their writing.

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Speaker 2: It's not like it's a detailed account of what took place. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I am evil. Doesn't mean I did everything that you're

425
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Speaker 2: accusing me of.

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Speaker 1: But she said, I am evil, I did this. But

427
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Speaker 1: then I don't know what this is, what this is.

428
00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:37,800
Speaker 1: Maybe it's something else. Maybe she's just saying it because

429
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Speaker 1: of all the news headlines.

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Speaker 2: Or I did this means like I was negligent in

431
00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:44,560
Speaker 2: the way I cared for them, and now I've caused

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Speaker 2: all this. I mean, we don't know what it means.

433
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Speaker 1: So jurors were shown the diary entries with initials of

434
00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:53,679
Speaker 1: infants that have passed under her care. Text messages were

435
00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:57,320
Speaker 1: also presented in which she referenced emotional distress at work.

436
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Speaker 1: You know, I don't know if text messages were She's,

437
00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:04,600
Speaker 1: you know, distressed at work, show culpability. I feel like

438
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Speaker 1: all of us have text messages where we're distressed at work,

439
00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:11,600
Speaker 1: so or the marriage or that. In May of twenty

440
00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:14,399
Speaker 1: twenty three, she testified in her own defense, stating she

441
00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:19,560
Speaker 1: intended no harm. She suggested environmental issues, including plumbing problems,

442
00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:23,800
Speaker 1: could have contributed to infections or complications. In June of

443
00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:29,000
Speaker 1: twenty twenty three, prosecutors delivered closing arguments alleging deliberate and

444
00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:30,040
Speaker 1: repeated harm.

445
00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:31,119
Speaker 2: So.

446
00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:33,720
Speaker 1: Then in August of twenty twenty three, this is August

447
00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:36,600
Speaker 1: eighteenth of twenty twenty three, Lucy Leppie was found guilty

448
00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:39,800
Speaker 1: following a ten month trial. She was convicted in the

449
00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:43,720
Speaker 1: murders of seven infants and the attempted murders of six others.

450
00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:51,560
Speaker 2: Obviously, the children that died collapsed right clearly, Like there's

451
00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:54,439
Speaker 2: evidence that there's a death, but the attempted murders you

452
00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:56,399
Speaker 2: just said, there's no cameras and things of it. Like

453
00:22:56,440 --> 00:23:00,480
Speaker 2: how did they attribute attempted? Like where's the records to

454
00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:03,359
Speaker 2: show that there was an attempted murder on these six?

455
00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:05,879
Speaker 1: I don't know other than they have records of the

456
00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:11,159
Speaker 1: baby maybe being on on colapsing but collapsing, But I

457
00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:14,320
Speaker 1: get to me, maybe collapsing isn'tdying. Maybe it's just like decline.

458
00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:17,880
Speaker 2: Like some illness or some urgency that was addressed, and.

459
00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:21,439
Speaker 1: Now they'reuscitated, I think because those babies were able to

460
00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:24,680
Speaker 1: be resuscitated. And then but they're accusing.

461
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:27,919
Speaker 2: How why Okay, if they were resuscitated, why do they

462
00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:30,560
Speaker 2: need to be like, what, what are the details of

463
00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:32,959
Speaker 2: what happened to get to that point? And then now

464
00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:35,560
Speaker 2: they're going to say, oh, this baby that almost died

465
00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:38,440
Speaker 2: was because of you. I don't know what's the evidence.

466
00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:41,439
Speaker 1: Because I would assume that those attempted murders had the

467
00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:43,760
Speaker 1: same type of facts surrounding them, like.

468
00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:46,600
Speaker 2: She was on the clock, that she was there, none.

469
00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:49,040
Speaker 1: Of that, you know, I don't know that they the

470
00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:51,480
Speaker 1: skin was discolored, so they're going to attribute it to,

471
00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:53,080
Speaker 1: you know, an air embolism.

472
00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:56,240
Speaker 2: She's going to get whole life sentence for that, or

473
00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:56,760
Speaker 2: she would.

474
00:23:56,560 --> 00:23:58,600
Speaker 1: Have gotten a whole life sentence for the six that

475
00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:01,240
Speaker 1: they deemed that she actually did murder.

476
00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:04,400
Speaker 2: I know, but then now attempted murder is the same.

477
00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:07,359
Speaker 2: I'm just saying, this evidence doesn't look very strong to

478
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:09,480
Speaker 2: you get fifteen life sentences.

479
00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:12,919
Speaker 1: The judge stated that the severity of the offenses warranted

480
00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:17,119
Speaker 1: lifelong imprisonment. Then in July of twenty twenty four, this

481
00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:20,320
Speaker 1: is following a four week retrial, she was convicted on

482
00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:24,359
Speaker 1: an additional count of attempted murder in relation to another victim.

483
00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:28,080
Speaker 1: This was child k after the jury was previously hung

484
00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:32,680
Speaker 1: on that specific incident. This resulted in an additional life sentence.

485
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:36,560
Speaker 1: So she's serving total. She's serving a total of fifteen

486
00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:39,800
Speaker 1: whole life sentences, appeals and the aftermath. So now we'll

487
00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:42,840
Speaker 1: get to twenty twenty three to twenty twenty six. She

488
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:50,120
Speaker 1: has unsuccessfully appealed her convictions twice. They even I think

489
00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:54,480
Speaker 1: there was even the appeals court said, even if because

490
00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:57,360
Speaker 1: she because I believe her defense attorney has that new

491
00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:00,200
Speaker 1: has that panel of experts now that have all come forward.

492
00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:02,520
Speaker 1: Doctor Sue is one of them that wrote the original

493
00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:06,440
Speaker 1: paper on air embolism and infants, and they've all gone

494
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:08,959
Speaker 1: through each case case by a case, and then they

495
00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:14,080
Speaker 1: all deemed kind of unanimously that that theyse weren't murders.

496
00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:18,840
Speaker 1: And so I think that evidence is now I guess

497
00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:21,760
Speaker 1: was used somewhat in the appeals. But then I believe

498
00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:24,399
Speaker 1: the appeals court said, even if it even if that

499
00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:26,960
Speaker 1: were true, there were other instances that had to do

500
00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:31,240
Speaker 1: with insulin and other things. So too much feeding.

501
00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:34,560
Speaker 2: And I know because it's it's very mysterious, Right, you

502
00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:36,080
Speaker 2: have a baby that dies, well.

503
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:38,440
Speaker 1: We have multiple, you have lots of babies, and it's

504
00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:41,040
Speaker 1: not like there was a pattern. There was also another

505
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:44,240
Speaker 1: baby that collapse, died whatever you want to say that

506
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:49,440
Speaker 1: they deemed had some type of liver issue, but a failure.

507
00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:52,239
Speaker 1: But they said the liver failure was because of like

508
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:55,679
Speaker 1: posts or because of like blunt horse trauma or something

509
00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:59,560
Speaker 1: like she had abused the baby or something. So then

510
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:01,359
Speaker 1: that's a good point that you made, because I feel

511
00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:04,800
Speaker 1: like if someone were a serial killer, we've learned that

512
00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:07,560
Speaker 1: the definition of a serial killer is because someone has

513
00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:11,400
Speaker 1: a pattern of behavior, they do the same things.

514
00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:13,520
Speaker 2: And she wants them dead. Why would she like, why

515
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:15,720
Speaker 2: would she use like the idea of methods.

516
00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:18,760
Speaker 1: Right, like an air embolism here, too much insulin here, feeding,

517
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:23,080
Speaker 1: too much, a liver issue here. It's it is kind

518
00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:25,560
Speaker 1: of all over the board, not just like a systematic,

519
00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:28,080
Speaker 1: same type of thing every single time.

520
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:30,199
Speaker 2: And the babies are all different too, right, There was

521
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:33,520
Speaker 2: premature ones and there was you know, normal and the

522
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:34,480
Speaker 2: weighted one, and.

523
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:36,240
Speaker 1: It had issues like as soon as they were born,

524
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:39,120
Speaker 1: you know, that were already vulnerable at that point.

525
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:42,040
Speaker 2: You know, I do know that from looking over this

526
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:45,919
Speaker 2: a little bit. That another thing, and it's circumstantial. But

527
00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:50,359
Speaker 2: another thing is the amount of babies dying in such

528
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:53,879
Speaker 2: a short period of time that the hospital that's like

529
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:58,680
Speaker 2: not normal, like results, not normal statistics. And then when

530
00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:01,280
Speaker 2: they she was put as a medical nurse or whatever hurt,

531
00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:05,119
Speaker 2: she was demoted or taken off of basically there it

532
00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:09,440
Speaker 2: dropped significantly. And I read that up to today or

533
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:12,680
Speaker 2: at least recently, they've had twenty five hundred like babies

534
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:16,080
Speaker 2: come through the hospital and they've had one death.

535
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:20,199
Speaker 1: Well you know, but also did have they cleaned up

536
00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:22,960
Speaker 1: the hospital and have they put new do they have

537
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:25,840
Speaker 1: new staff? Do they have you know.

538
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:30,439
Speaker 2: They I know they also the hospital stopped taking in premies.

539
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 1: Well see that that's why when you have a conclusion,

540
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:38,479
Speaker 1: like a very conclusive statistic where it's like, okay, well

541
00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:41,239
Speaker 1: ever since Lucy let me left right now, there's been

542
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:43,600
Speaker 1: no deaths, But then you don't explain it further. Well,

543
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:47,359
Speaker 1: maybe there's no death because the staff is different. Maybe

544
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:50,760
Speaker 1: they've upgraded their medical equipment, maybe.

545
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:54,480
Speaker 2: They stopped taking in babies, maybe they stopped taking right.

546
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:56,000
Speaker 1: Maybe it's not there anymore.

547
00:27:57,040 --> 00:28:00,760
Speaker 3: So you know, those are things that maybe someone else

548
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:03,520
Speaker 3: is not there also that they are fired some doctor

549
00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:11,240
Speaker 3: right who knows?

550
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:15,960
Speaker 1: She unsuccessfully appealed her convictions twice We talked about that,

551
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:18,760
Speaker 1: and then in February twenty twenty six, at coroner formally

552
00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:23,320
Speaker 1: open inquests into several of the infant deaths. Well, you

553
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:25,000
Speaker 1: know what my other question is, the whole time I

554
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:26,800
Speaker 1: was watching this documentary and the whole time I was

555
00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:29,720
Speaker 1: reading these articles, why are people still giving birth in

556
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:30,520
Speaker 1: this hospital?

557
00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:34,080
Speaker 2: Well? Do they know these? Oh you mean after it's

558
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:36,080
Speaker 2: like publicly, I'm just saying I wouldn't.

559
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:40,080
Speaker 1: I mean, the hospital can that neonatal unit still exists

560
00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:41,680
Speaker 1: and babies are still being born there?

561
00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:41,880
Speaker 2: What?

562
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:42,520
Speaker 3: Well?

563
00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:44,360
Speaker 2: Because I don't know they got rid of her.

564
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:46,760
Speaker 1: I'm just telling you, if I was brave, I'd be like,

565
00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:48,000
Speaker 1: don't we.

566
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:50,280
Speaker 2: Should look up the reviews on the hospital.

567
00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:52,880
Speaker 1: And I don't care if we have to reral and

568
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:55,040
Speaker 1: we have to like go a longer distance, I'm not

569
00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:57,440
Speaker 1: going to that, or we have it in the bathtub

570
00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:02,480
Speaker 1: or something. Right, the case attracted widespread media attention, with

571
00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:04,560
Speaker 1: many debating if let Be is actually one of the

572
00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:08,320
Speaker 1: most prolific child serial killers in history, or if the

573
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:11,200
Speaker 1: hospital is using her as a scapegoat.

574
00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:13,480
Speaker 2: For that too, they have bad practice. If they have

575
00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:16,880
Speaker 2: bad practices and they want to blame something other than themselves,

576
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:19,520
Speaker 2: then they might say, Hey, this lady works a lot,

577
00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:20,400
Speaker 2: let's excuse her.

578
00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:23,120
Speaker 1: Right. So, as we were talking about. In February of

579
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:26,480
Speaker 1: twenty twenty six, a Netflix documentary titled The Investigation of

580
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:30,560
Speaker 1: Lucy let Be premiered, featuring arrest footage and interviews disputing

581
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:33,680
Speaker 1: aspects of the prosecution's case. All right, I will tell

582
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:35,040
Speaker 1: you I did as much as I could. I did

583
00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:37,160
Speaker 1: as much research as I could. I read as many

584
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:40,360
Speaker 1: articles as I could, even got on Reddit and read

585
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:42,800
Speaker 1: all the things that I could find on Lucy Leppie.

586
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:44,560
Speaker 1: And it comes down to, you know what, if I'm

587
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:46,360
Speaker 1: going to have to pick a side, I'm going to

588
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:48,480
Speaker 1: go with the safe side, where I don't think we

589
00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:50,840
Speaker 1: should give a thirty three year old woman a life

590
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:54,160
Speaker 1: sentence for the rest of her life when there isn't

591
00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:57,320
Speaker 1: a smoking gun. There's no smoking gun, and I'm sorry,

592
00:29:57,360 --> 00:29:59,000
Speaker 1: but in order to put someone in prison for the

593
00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:01,240
Speaker 1: rest of their life. I need to smoking gun. I

594
00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:04,600
Speaker 1: need video camera footage. I need her to I need

595
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:08,160
Speaker 1: someone to show me that this woman is killing these

596
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:12,120
Speaker 1: babies on purpose because she's sick and demented and she

597
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:14,400
Speaker 1: deserves to stay in prison the rest of her life.

598
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:15,200
Speaker 1: That's what I need.

599
00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:18,400
Speaker 2: You have, what's better an innocent person in jail or

600
00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:21,240
Speaker 2: you know, someone that's guilty on the streets.

601
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm going to err on. I would feel

602
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:27,280
Speaker 1: more comfortable with her on the streets, just not working

603
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:30,240
Speaker 1: with babies, Like maybe she needs a different or elderly

604
00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:35,080
Speaker 1: career path, something away from healthcare. But until there is

605
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:37,680
Speaker 1: something that proves to me there is some type of

606
00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:40,680
Speaker 1: smoking gun that says that I'm like convinced.

607
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:43,040
Speaker 2: That she did think about the letter, the notes or

608
00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:46,040
Speaker 2: diaries that she wrote where I'm not good enough, I'll

609
00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:49,200
Speaker 2: never marry, I'll never have children. Always did it? I mean, well, yeah,

610
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:52,040
Speaker 2: all those things. Well, let's assume she's not guilty for

611
00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:55,560
Speaker 2: purposes of my points. Okay, so she's writing in her journal,

612
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:59,600
Speaker 2: I you know, I'm she's depressed, right, I'll never marry,

613
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:01,440
Speaker 2: I'm not going to have children, I'm not good enough

614
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:03,920
Speaker 2: all these things, and then she gets thrown in jail

615
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:06,920
Speaker 2: for life. Now, what do you think she thinks? She

616
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:10,200
Speaker 2: thinks this is my life, like I'm worthless, I'm no good,

617
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:13,440
Speaker 2: and then she thinks I'm just destined to kind of

618
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:15,880
Speaker 2: have a miserable life. And it's an awful thing to think.

619
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:18,320
Speaker 2: And I think a lot of even guilty people think

620
00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:20,760
Speaker 2: that because I watch sometimes a lot of court sentencing

621
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:23,960
Speaker 2: and things like that on TV, and I always feel

622
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:28,160
Speaker 2: that these usually kids or young people, think, well, that's

623
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:30,120
Speaker 2: just kind of my life. I grew up in an

624
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:34,360
Speaker 2: unfortunate situation. I have crappy parents or whatever, and whatever,

625
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:36,000
Speaker 2: I'll just go to jail and they kind of just

626
00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:38,160
Speaker 2: throw their arms in the air. And anyway, that's the

627
00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:40,160
Speaker 2: part of me that feels really bad for people sometimes.

628
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:42,760
Speaker 1: But are you saying that you think her ramblings were

629
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:46,400
Speaker 1: more just a stream of like just questioning, like she

630
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:47,880
Speaker 1: was just depressed and she's just no.

631
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:52,960
Speaker 2: I was only going on the possibility if she were

632
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:55,000
Speaker 2: to be not guilty, and she truly was just a

633
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:57,760
Speaker 2: nurse that just couldn't save these kids and these babies

634
00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:01,000
Speaker 2: or just had bad luck with care for them. And

635
00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:03,560
Speaker 2: then She's already depressed about herself and now she gets

636
00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:08,719
Speaker 2: thrown in jail and blamed. I mean, that's that's heartbreaking.

637
00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:12,480
Speaker 1: Yeah. So let's where she's at now. So her case

638
00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:15,760
Speaker 1: is now being reviewed by the CCRC, which stands for

639
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:19,360
Speaker 1: the Criminal Cases Review Commission, and they have the task

640
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:22,080
Speaker 1: of reviewing the expert reports that we talked about how

641
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:27,320
Speaker 1: her defense had compiled the fourteen I believe experts, and

642
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:30,680
Speaker 1: they drafted a report which has been submitted by her

643
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:34,280
Speaker 1: defense team to the CCRC. So now there, I don't

644
00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:36,040
Speaker 1: know if there's a timeframe on that or I don't

645
00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:37,920
Speaker 1: know if it's like the Supreme Court where you can

646
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:39,960
Speaker 1: they can just take all the time in the world

647
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:41,800
Speaker 1: to decide whether they're going to pick something up and

648
00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:45,440
Speaker 1: read it and adjudicate it. But that's where her case

649
00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:49,440
Speaker 1: is now. For purposes of our discussion, I would hope

650
00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:54,320
Speaker 1: that they read it and that they give her whatever happens,

651
00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:58,560
Speaker 1: whatever the the you know, judiciary is with this. I

652
00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:00,160
Speaker 1: don't know if I think it kicks it back to

653
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:02,560
Speaker 1: the appeals court, like I think if they read it

654
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:04,680
Speaker 1: and think, okay, this is substantive and it would make

655
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:07,440
Speaker 1: a difference, let's kick it back to the appeals court.

656
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:09,520
Speaker 1: Then I hope that happens because I feel like she

657
00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:11,720
Speaker 1: should have another day in court.

658
00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:16,280
Speaker 2: Ah, yeah, I don't. I everything I've looked at, which

659
00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:18,360
Speaker 2: probably wasn't as much as you, I don't see any

660
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Speaker 2: reason to give her all those sentencings. I don't think

661
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:26,120
Speaker 2: she's not guilty. No excuse me. I don't think she's innocent.

662
00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:30,080
Speaker 2: I don't know that she's innocent, but I say she's

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00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:31,320
Speaker 2: not guilty by a matter of law.

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Speaker 1: No, I agree with what you're saying. I'm not saying

665
00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:35,600
Speaker 1: that either. I'm not saying I'm convinced she's innocent. I'm

666
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:38,040
Speaker 1: just not convinced that she's guilty and should spend the

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00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:41,080
Speaker 1: rest of her life in prison. So that's where we're

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00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:43,560
Speaker 1: at on Lucy let Be. I would love to know

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Speaker 1: you guys's thoughts. If you've seen the documentary on Netflix,

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00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:48,400
Speaker 1: what are your thoughts on Lucy let Be, or if

671
00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:50,440
Speaker 1: you've read more things on the case, or if you've

672
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:52,800
Speaker 1: been invested in it and you have more details, or if.

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00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:55,360
Speaker 2: There's any other hospital staff members out there that kind

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00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:58,600
Speaker 2: of have come across, like you know, situations where it's

675
00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:03,320
Speaker 2: sketchy but it's also just unfortunate medical standards and lack

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00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:05,640
Speaker 2: of care or just mishaps, right.

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Speaker 1: So we would love to hear your thoughts, so you

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00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:10,799
Speaker 1: can let me know on Instagram. Also, guys, please be

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00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:12,799
Speaker 1: sure to follow us at Legally Brunette and you can

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00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:16,080
Speaker 1: listen to us anywhere you listen to podcasts, and also

681
00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:18,360
Speaker 1: be sure to tell your friends and family. We appreciate

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00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:20,720
Speaker 1: that very much, so thank you so much for listening.

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Speaker 2: Thank you