WEBVTT - Dan Rather Tells Alec Baldwin the 'Truth' 0:00:06.760 --> 0:00:09.840 This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the thing, 0:00:10.480 --> 0:00:15.560 My chance to talk with artists, policymakers and performers, to 0:00:15.680 --> 0:00:20.080 hear their stories, what inspires their creations, what decisions change 0:00:20.120 --> 0:00:25.840 their careers, what relationships influenced their work. In nineteen sixty one, 0:00:26.360 --> 0:00:30.800 Hurricane Carla was threatening the Texas coast. A young reporter 0:00:30.920 --> 0:00:34.960 named Dan Rather used radar technology on the air for 0:00:35.000 --> 0:00:37.920 the very first time to show viewers the size of 0:00:37.960 --> 0:00:42.400 the storm. CBS network executives took note and offered Rather 0:00:42.520 --> 0:00:45.760 a job as a correspondent. CBS would become Rather as 0:00:45.840 --> 0:00:50.839 home for the next four decades. Rather built a reputation 0:00:50.960 --> 0:00:55.320 for hard nosed, in depth reporting. This reputation was called 0:00:55.320 --> 0:00:58.600 into question in two thousand four after his sixty minutes 0:00:58.640 --> 0:01:04.520 report about President George W. Bush's military service. CBS conducted 0:01:04.560 --> 0:01:09.039 an exhaustive investigation on the veracity of Rather's peace. Rather 0:01:09.080 --> 0:01:14.360 apologized and eventually stepped down truth. A film depicting the 0:01:14.440 --> 0:01:17.720 lead up to and chaos surrounding that segment on sixty 0:01:17.760 --> 0:01:21.680 Minutes is in theaters now. It stars Robert Redford as 0:01:21.800 --> 0:01:25.920 my guest Today, Dan Rather. This conversation was recorded Live 0:01:26.280 --> 0:01:29.399 as part of the Hampton's International Film Festival a couple 0:01:29.440 --> 0:01:32.640 of weeks ago, as Dan Rather told me, his own 0:01:32.680 --> 0:01:35.959 military career started off with a lie that he was 0:01:36.040 --> 0:01:39.680 fit for service. I'm a child of the oppression years 0:01:39.720 --> 0:01:43.200 in World War Two, and when the Korean War came up. 0:01:43.680 --> 0:01:46.920 I know this sounds strange in today's environment more than 0:01:46.959 --> 0:01:50.600 fifty years later, but my country was at war and 0:01:50.640 --> 0:01:53.320 I wanted to fight. I was four f because I'd 0:01:53.320 --> 0:01:55.640 had rheumatic fever when I was a child, which was 0:01:55.680 --> 0:01:59.440 a so called disqualifying disease. I'm not proud of it, 0:01:59.520 --> 0:02:03.720 but when it came down with the Marines, I just 0:02:04.640 --> 0:02:07.680 when I told him, I didn't have any disqualifying diseases. 0:02:08.040 --> 0:02:10.320 But I have one of the shortest and least distinguished 0:02:10.360 --> 0:02:12.400 records in the whole history of the United States. But 0:02:13.240 --> 0:02:16.000 Marine Corps because they eventually found out, and so I 0:02:16.040 --> 0:02:17.680 was in the Marines for a short time. I didn't 0:02:17.680 --> 0:02:20.680 see combat. I saw nothing but southern California. But I've 0:02:20.720 --> 0:02:23.200 always been glad uh for the time I was in 0:02:23.320 --> 0:02:27.360 I think I learned alec more. Perhaps in the short 0:02:27.360 --> 0:02:29.720 time I was in the Marines. In any other such 0:02:29.840 --> 0:02:32.600 periody in my life that one of the four example. 0:02:34.040 --> 0:02:36.440 One of the things that the Marines teach you is 0:02:36.480 --> 0:02:38.040 that you can do a whole lot more than you 0:02:38.080 --> 0:02:40.280 think you can do. But any reach suffice to say, 0:02:40.919 --> 0:02:43.720 uh that I wasn't in for very long. I didn't 0:02:43.720 --> 0:02:45.400 do very much when I was in there. The most 0:02:45.400 --> 0:02:47.760 I can say is I volunteered to go, but did 0:02:47.919 --> 0:02:52.919 did a affinity for fighting men and now currently fighting 0:02:52.960 --> 0:02:55.520 men and women. Did that influence your career when you 0:02:55.520 --> 0:02:58.440 were in Vietnam? Is that what you wanted? Is that 0:02:58.520 --> 0:03:04.040 what you do? Yes? That that and the recognition. And 0:03:04.400 --> 0:03:06.519 I've made a lot of mistakes over my career, most 0:03:06.560 --> 0:03:09.079 of which are fairly obvious, and I have discard to 0:03:09.120 --> 0:03:13.640 show it. But when the Vietnam War started, uh one, 0:03:14.600 --> 0:03:17.600 I've recognized that it could become one of the dividing 0:03:17.680 --> 0:03:21.440 stories of my time. And if you're a journalist, you 0:03:21.480 --> 0:03:23.480 know your prayer every day is God to give me 0:03:23.520 --> 0:03:27.240 the big story. And since we're all greedy, right behind that, 0:03:27.520 --> 0:03:30.200 your prayer is and oh, by the way, God, if 0:03:30.200 --> 0:03:32.040 you give you the big story, please let me be 0:03:32.160 --> 0:03:34.800 at or near my best day. But yes, my going 0:03:34.840 --> 0:03:38.520 to Vietnam was partly based on my short undistinguished time 0:03:38.640 --> 0:03:42.920 in the Marines. Uh, I was remarkably unprepared to go 0:03:42.960 --> 0:03:45.760 to Vietnam. And I will say that to this day, 0:03:46.160 --> 0:03:48.400 and let's face it, I've been really lucky and blessed 0:03:48.440 --> 0:03:51.720 by being on a lot of big stories. Uh. That 0:03:51.880 --> 0:03:55.200 the honor and I used that word measuredly, the honor 0:03:55.440 --> 0:03:59.320 of covering American men and women in combat in that 0:03:59.520 --> 0:04:03.960 Green Uncle Hell, was one that obviously never forget over 0:04:04.000 --> 0:04:06.800 What period of time did you visit Vietnam? Well, it 0:04:06.880 --> 0:04:10.240 wasn't a visit. I was there for the better part 0:04:10.280 --> 0:04:15.640 of a year late nineteen assigned there and stayed there 0:04:15.680 --> 0:04:17.640 a better part of a year in late nineteen sixty 0:04:18.040 --> 0:04:22.720 til nineteen sixty six. I went back another three times, 0:04:22.760 --> 0:04:25.240 maybe four times after that, but never for that long. 0:04:26.200 --> 0:04:29.039 And when you were there to be credentialed and to 0:04:29.200 --> 0:04:31.800 get the permission to go there by the military, I'm 0:04:31.839 --> 0:04:34.040 assuming it was a lot different than than it is now, 0:04:35.160 --> 0:04:38.359 a great deal different. The biggest difference in covering combat 0:04:38.839 --> 0:04:43.320 Corres Monastery today as compared to the Vietnam era. In Vietnam, 0:04:43.400 --> 0:04:48.240 we were basically in the hitchhiking business. Uh. If you 0:04:48.279 --> 0:04:51.159 were a credential correspondence, you could go any place you 0:04:51.200 --> 0:04:53.400 wanted to go if you could get there, and the 0:04:53.440 --> 0:04:56.320 military would accommodate you. So we you look for a 0:04:56.360 --> 0:04:59.159 helicopter or a convoy going where you want to go, 0:04:59.160 --> 0:05:02.320 and you could go you where. And as a consequence, 0:05:02.360 --> 0:05:06.839 correspondence are not just myself, but correspondence in general, particularly 0:05:06.839 --> 0:05:10.160 television correspondents, because you have to get the pictures that 0:05:10.279 --> 0:05:14.120 we saw the war in every area of South Vietnam, 0:05:14.480 --> 0:05:16.760 from the DMZ all the way down to the Delta, 0:05:17.360 --> 0:05:21.240 which was rare even for people in the military. Frequently 0:05:21.279 --> 0:05:23.719 they were in one section, being the Highlands, but they 0:05:23.760 --> 0:05:28.400 didn't see the Delta. But that's all changed now that 0:05:28.800 --> 0:05:32.320 when you cover American men women in combat today, it's 0:05:32.440 --> 0:05:36.839 it's all very tightly controlled. Some people say it's tightly 0:05:36.839 --> 0:05:41.880 controlled because of you. Well, some people see that you 0:05:41.920 --> 0:05:43.880 were unearthing too much of the facts of what we're 0:05:43.920 --> 0:05:46.479 going on a viet Well, I think that's a bit much. 0:05:46.880 --> 0:05:51.000 But I do think that the military speaking in general, 0:05:51.080 --> 0:05:53.919 felt that they learned out of Vietnam that if you 0:05:54.000 --> 0:05:58.080 let correspondence and news organizations go anywhere in each other place, 0:05:58.720 --> 0:06:03.240 then the control the narrative, that you do not control 0:06:03.279 --> 0:06:08.040 the narrative. And the military, regardless of whose military it is, 0:06:08.440 --> 0:06:12.360 they're always eager to control the narrative. Now we can 0:06:12.400 --> 0:06:14.120 spend the rest after you're talking about it, but it 0:06:14.160 --> 0:06:17.880 will make one point that doesn't begin with the military. 0:06:17.920 --> 0:06:21.920 That begins with the White House and the Defense Department. 0:06:22.200 --> 0:06:25.360 They want to control the narrative. Therefore they have the 0:06:25.400 --> 0:06:28.600 military and make the rules saying, don't let these reporters 0:06:28.640 --> 0:06:30.720 go everywhere they want to go and do whatever they 0:06:30.720 --> 0:06:33.839 want to do. Oh, they have a system called embedding, 0:06:33.960 --> 0:06:36.719 which is to say, you're assigned to a certain unit 0:06:36.880 --> 0:06:39.960 or a certain area and you have an escort, but 0:06:40.080 --> 0:06:44.120 an escort. There are some exceptions to that, but very few. 0:06:44.160 --> 0:06:46.320 But that's the biggest change between today and who was 0:06:46.360 --> 0:06:48.080 the part during the period of time when you were 0:06:48.120 --> 0:06:50.520 in Vietnam. You were stationed in Psychon for that year 0:06:51.040 --> 0:06:54.200 that was what year? That was sixty five and sixty 0:06:54.279 --> 0:06:58.000 So so this was McNamara and Johnson. That's correct, But 0:06:58.080 --> 0:07:00.800 they always felt they had made a mistake by allowing 0:07:00.800 --> 0:07:03.640 the press to do that. But footnote bottom of the page. 0:07:03.680 --> 0:07:06.240 When the U. S. Military did its own analysis of 0:07:06.320 --> 0:07:10.000 what happened in Vietnam and what went wrong. They addressed 0:07:10.000 --> 0:07:13.960 the question of, quote, did the press lose the war? Unquote? 0:07:13.960 --> 0:07:18.520 And this is the military's own analysis are written in 0:07:18.600 --> 0:07:22.720 the Midden late nineteen seventies, eighties, I think. But anyway, 0:07:22.760 --> 0:07:26.120 they concluded it was not the press that lost the war. 0:07:26.320 --> 0:07:28.680 It was a lack of strategy and a lack of 0:07:28.680 --> 0:07:32.560 proper strategy and transparency with the American people, and the 0:07:32.680 --> 0:07:35.640 lack of transparency with the American people led to a 0:07:35.680 --> 0:07:39.040 diminution in support for the war. You were assigned as 0:07:39.080 --> 0:07:42.960 the White House correspondent when I first came to White 0:07:42.960 --> 0:07:46.480 House in January of nineteen sixty four. This was just 0:07:46.640 --> 0:07:49.280 after the Kennedy assassination. As you know, I was in 0:07:49.400 --> 0:07:54.120 Dallas with the Kennedy assassination. And when President Johnson ascended 0:07:54.160 --> 0:07:56.880 to the presidency, I came. I covered the White House 0:07:56.880 --> 0:08:00.600 in nineteen sixty four. Then I went oversee including the 0:08:00.600 --> 0:08:04.320 time of Vietnam, and I came back in very late 0:08:04.400 --> 0:08:10.840 nineteen sixty six and was there until roughly nineteen seventy six. Okay, 0:08:10.920 --> 0:08:13.080 so you're you're covering the White House that period of time. 0:08:14.040 --> 0:08:16.520 So there's how shall we say there's Uh, they changed 0:08:16.520 --> 0:08:18.480 a lot more than the drapery at the White House 0:08:18.520 --> 0:08:21.200 in nineteen sixty eight. And what was that like for you? 0:08:21.400 --> 0:08:23.720 Was to cover the new administration. Well, you know, when 0:08:23.880 --> 0:08:27.080 nineteen sixty eight came, the country was in such turmoil. 0:08:27.160 --> 0:08:29.400 I'm just we don't need to review the whole thing. 0:08:29.520 --> 0:08:32.840 But Robert Kennedy had been assassinated. Dr Martin Luther King 0:08:32.880 --> 0:08:36.160 had been assassinated. They were race riots in the country 0:08:36.520 --> 0:08:39.640 and rose from the dead politically. So when President Nixon 0:08:39.679 --> 0:08:42.439 was elected in nineteen eight, I had met him and 0:08:42.559 --> 0:08:45.960 had covered him, but only briefly. And I frankly thought 0:08:46.000 --> 0:08:50.200 at the time, well, you know, um, independent politically, but 0:08:50.280 --> 0:08:53.640 this may be good for the country. Uh that we've 0:08:53.640 --> 0:08:57.400 had eight years of a democratic administration. Things are not 0:08:57.480 --> 0:09:00.240 all that good. So here's a new breath of air. 0:09:00.840 --> 0:09:05.080 But I quickly learned that the Nixon people, including President Nixon, 0:09:05.800 --> 0:09:08.760 they had such a deep and abiding hatred. And I 0:09:08.840 --> 0:09:12.680 used that word measuredly for the press that for example, 0:09:12.760 --> 0:09:16.000 shortly as they came on a man named hr Bob 0:09:16.120 --> 0:09:20.040 Haltelman he later became a figure in the Watergate things. Uh, 0:09:20.360 --> 0:09:22.920 I met him, he came in and he no, sooner said. 0:09:22.960 --> 0:09:24.600 Then he said, we know who you are and what 0:09:24.760 --> 0:09:27.679 you are. I was saying to myself, well, that's more 0:09:27.720 --> 0:09:31.280 than I know about myself. Tell me what you know. 0:09:32.120 --> 0:09:34.520 So I said, well, what do you mean? He said, well, 0:09:34.600 --> 0:09:36.959 you know you were died in the world. This is 0:09:36.960 --> 0:09:39.960 a paraphrase, but a pretty close paraphrase. You're dying the 0:09:39.960 --> 0:09:46.800 will liberal, borderline socialist Lyndon Johnson Democrat, which astonished me 0:09:47.240 --> 0:09:49.920 to hear him say it, but it was replatory, and 0:09:49.960 --> 0:09:52.840 then it revealed to me the first time we have 0:09:52.920 --> 0:09:57.280 a problem here. And of course the Nixon presidency of 0:09:58.120 --> 0:10:01.480 it got off to a reasonably good star. If you remember, 0:10:01.520 --> 0:10:04.160 he promised that he had a plan to in the war, 0:10:05.520 --> 0:10:07.680 when in fact he had a plan to expand the war. 0:10:08.200 --> 0:10:11.079 But things quickly went from bad to worst, not just 0:10:11.160 --> 0:10:14.200 with myself but with the press scer in general, both 0:10:14.200 --> 0:10:19.320 print and electronic, because they had this this deep and 0:10:19.360 --> 0:10:23.760 abiding hostility, at least borderlinding on hatred towards the pression. 0:10:23.920 --> 0:10:26.880 When when you're there, I mean, this is my opinion, 0:10:27.760 --> 0:10:33.080 you are someone who is viewed by conservative forces in 0:10:33.080 --> 0:10:36.280 the country as being liberally biased. They always tried to 0:10:36.320 --> 0:10:39.320 tire you with that way you sell. You seek the 0:10:39.360 --> 0:10:43.599 truth about Nixon's activities, you seek the truth about Iran contract, 0:10:43.760 --> 0:10:47.080 and you're always being labeled as a liberal as being 0:10:47.120 --> 0:10:49.400 liberally biased because you really wanted them to actually answer 0:10:49.440 --> 0:10:52.160 your questions. Do you see it that way? I do? 0:10:52.679 --> 0:10:55.240 And beyond that, I was always proud of the fact 0:10:55.880 --> 0:10:59.280 that I was part of CBS US history and tradition 0:10:59.480 --> 0:11:03.000 and mission of CBS News, which was to take on 0:11:03.040 --> 0:11:06.920 the tough things, to pull no punches, play no favorite 0:11:07.760 --> 0:11:11.400 and the two parts elect respond to this business of 0:11:11.520 --> 0:11:17.600 you know, some liberal, politically biased person Number one. I 0:11:17.640 --> 0:11:20.400 grew up in Texas and I'm not playing humble beginnings, 0:11:20.440 --> 0:11:22.720 but my father was a distiger and my mother was 0:11:22.760 --> 0:11:26.760 a waitress. I went to nothing but public schools, including 0:11:26.840 --> 0:11:32.400 Sam Houston State Teachers College, small public school, product of Texas, 0:11:32.480 --> 0:11:38.600 product of Texas public schools. Volunteers went in the Marine Corps. Uh, 0:11:38.679 --> 0:11:43.120 what wildlining here. This is hardly the background of someone 0:11:43.200 --> 0:11:46.840 who's going to turn out to be some elite Eastern liberal. 0:11:47.000 --> 0:11:49.720 I was always amazed at the number of people who said, well, 0:11:49.760 --> 0:11:53.120 you're just another one of those ivy league of elite 0:11:53.160 --> 0:11:56.720 liberal people. Well, Sam Howson State Teacher College, which is 0:11:56.720 --> 0:12:00.000 now sayingson State University that's not in the IVY League. 0:12:00.080 --> 0:12:04.400 Sam Houston College, well I love the place, but it 0:12:04.480 --> 0:12:06.880 has about as much IVY United as your average taco 0:12:07.000 --> 0:12:13.560 bellow McDonald's. So that's number one. The number two that 0:12:13.960 --> 0:12:18.480 CBS News was was a leader in taking on the 0:12:18.520 --> 0:12:21.319 controversial issues, asking the tough questions going on the way 0:12:21.320 --> 0:12:25.400 back to Edward R. Merle and the McCarthy era. CBS 0:12:25.440 --> 0:12:28.120 News was a leader in covering the early part of 0:12:28.160 --> 0:12:31.200 the Civil rights movement, was the point person on that. 0:12:32.040 --> 0:12:34.120 It was a leader in coverage of the Vietnam War. 0:12:34.760 --> 0:12:37.800 It was the leader CBS News, not just myself, but 0:12:37.960 --> 0:12:41.920 I was leader in covering that widespread criminal conspiracy which 0:12:41.960 --> 0:12:44.640 is normally shorthanded border gate. Do you take all that 0:12:44.880 --> 0:12:47.840 history now? When people don't like the way you report, 0:12:48.400 --> 0:12:52.280 what they seek to do is detigrate you. And one 0:12:52.320 --> 0:12:54.160 way to do that is hang a sign around you 0:12:54.960 --> 0:12:59.640 liberal or socialist or left that hang around I was 0:12:59.640 --> 0:13:04.360 gonna say, I think you know him pretty well. Some 0:13:04.400 --> 0:13:07.680 people will say, I mean, in my lifetime, some people 0:13:07.679 --> 0:13:12.520 will look back and reassess these periods in history, and 0:13:12.520 --> 0:13:14.280 they'll talk about a lot of the good things that 0:13:14.360 --> 0:13:17.959 Nixon did, And I'm wondering, do you re assess him now? 0:13:18.000 --> 0:13:19.880 Do you think that there was some good things that 0:13:19.920 --> 0:13:22.720 he did? And well, unquestionably he did some good things 0:13:23.640 --> 0:13:26.560 and he accomplished some good things during his presidency. After all, 0:13:26.760 --> 0:13:30.600 where did he go wrong? Uh, that's a good question 0:13:30.679 --> 0:13:32.720 to psychologist, But I do want to answer the question. 0:13:33.400 --> 0:13:35.600 I think where he went wrong for whatever reason, and 0:13:35.679 --> 0:13:38.640 I have no reason to know this. With President Nixon, 0:13:38.679 --> 0:13:42.520 he came to believe that it wasn't enough to defeat 0:13:42.800 --> 0:13:46.160 his political enemies, that he had to destroy them. And 0:13:46.160 --> 0:13:48.880 that's a there's a big difference between English. We're gonna 0:13:48.880 --> 0:13:51.199 fight like hell during the election, but once the election 0:13:51.280 --> 0:13:54.040 is over, then move shake hands and try to do 0:13:54.120 --> 0:13:56.360 some good things for the country. And I think where 0:13:56.360 --> 0:13:58.760 he went wrong was a long time before he came 0:13:58.760 --> 0:14:02.200 to the presidency, when he had this idea, Listen, it 0:14:02.280 --> 0:14:05.319 isn't enough to defeat my opponents, I have to destroy 0:14:05.880 --> 0:14:11.000 and that permeated his administration. Now as the reassessing of 0:14:11.040 --> 0:14:15.920 President Nixon, there's been a widespread and well financed effort 0:14:16.559 --> 0:14:20.000 to rehabilitate the legacy of Richard Nixon. I think that's 0:14:20.040 --> 0:14:24.360 what you're referring to, and they make some valid points. However, 0:14:25.720 --> 0:14:29.400 I don't think the history if it mentions Richard Nixon 0:14:29.480 --> 0:14:32.360 a hundred years or five hundred years from now, the 0:14:32.400 --> 0:14:37.960 inescapable fact is that he, as president, led this widespread 0:14:38.040 --> 0:14:42.240 criminal conspiracy. Keeping mind, more than forty people were indicted, 0:14:42.280 --> 0:14:45.680 many of them were convicted of felonies, and the president 0:14:45.760 --> 0:14:49.680 himself was forced to resign after being called by a 0:14:49.720 --> 0:14:53.600 grand jury an unindicted co conspiracy. When you sit there 0:14:53.600 --> 0:14:57.160 in your job and you've seen the president killed, and 0:14:57.240 --> 0:15:00.360 you see and again, would you say the you don't 0:15:00.360 --> 0:15:06.120 need to rehash the ramp up to the sixty eight election. 0:15:06.960 --> 0:15:09.160 I think it is important for people to understand in 0:15:09.200 --> 0:15:13.280 that context how seminal sixty eight was, with r f 0:15:13.440 --> 0:15:18.000 K and an MLK dying that spring, the Democratic Convention 0:15:18.080 --> 0:15:21.640 is of fiasco. You're seeing the Democratic Party unraveling before 0:15:21.640 --> 0:15:25.400 your eyes. Nixon, who you can't put a finer point 0:15:25.400 --> 0:15:27.640 on this, that Dixon was someone who he was dead. 0:15:27.760 --> 0:15:30.560 I mean he was dead, he comes back and wins 0:15:30.600 --> 0:15:33.360 the presidency of the United States. I mean sixty eight 0:15:33.440 --> 0:15:37.440 is just this is this amazing year and uh, but 0:15:37.520 --> 0:15:40.080 when you when you travel down and you get to 0:15:40.200 --> 0:15:44.360 seventy three, where even you stunned that he he had 0:15:44.360 --> 0:15:47.960 won a landslide re election, one of the greatest landslides 0:15:47.960 --> 0:15:51.440 in American history in nineteen seventy two, and a year 0:15:51.520 --> 0:15:54.320 later he resigned. He was out. We didn't even stunn 0:15:54.400 --> 0:15:58.120 you that that happened. Well it did, and I was slow. 0:15:59.320 --> 0:16:02.840 You know, orders get paid to be skeptical. Never cynical, 0:16:03.080 --> 0:16:09.200 but skeptical. And when the first first faint edges of 0:16:09.240 --> 0:16:10.920 what we came to know as what a gate you 0:16:11.000 --> 0:16:13.880 can do emerged, I was skeptical that it would reach 0:16:14.000 --> 0:16:17.880 the Oval office itself. That you never met anybody who 0:16:17.920 --> 0:16:20.480 had more respect for the office of the Presidency in 0:16:20.520 --> 0:16:23.360 the United States than I do every day when I 0:16:23.400 --> 0:16:25.480 walked through the White House gates to go to work, 0:16:25.480 --> 0:16:27.840 as a White House corresponded. I know it may sound 0:16:28.040 --> 0:16:31.760 on a corny and sophomoric, but I really um sort 0:16:31.760 --> 0:16:33.480 of sucked it up and said to myself, you know, 0:16:33.840 --> 0:16:37.920 this counts, this was important, and so I didn't believe 0:16:38.120 --> 0:16:41.640 that whatever crimes had been committed, even became apparent that 0:16:41.720 --> 0:16:44.560 crimes had been committed, it was very difficult for me 0:16:44.680 --> 0:16:47.200 to accept that the President himself would be involved in 0:16:47.240 --> 0:16:51.440 any way. However, as time went a long, facts begin 0:16:51.560 --> 0:16:55.240 to first whisper, then they began to speak in full voice, 0:16:55.240 --> 0:16:58.680 and then the facts began to shout. It isn't just 0:16:59.240 --> 0:17:03.400 lower level campaign opportunities, It isn't just lower level members 0:17:03.440 --> 0:17:06.919 of the administration. That this probably goes into the Oval 0:17:06.960 --> 0:17:10.399 office itself. And I felt like hell about it, And 0:17:10.440 --> 0:17:12.240 for a long time I bought it and said, then, 0:17:12.400 --> 0:17:16.040 you know, but it almost impossible to believe that the 0:17:16.119 --> 0:17:19.240 president would be involved in this. But as I say, 0:17:19.359 --> 0:17:23.240 the facts finally got overwhelming where it was undeniable. I 0:17:23.280 --> 0:17:26.360 do want to go back to uh, you said, well, 0:17:26.560 --> 0:17:29.760 in nineteen seventy three, he had just come off a smashing, 0:17:29.840 --> 0:17:32.480 one of the most decisive victories in the history of 0:17:32.480 --> 0:17:37.120 the president. I wouldn't absolutely crushed McGovern, But I want 0:17:37.119 --> 0:17:40.480 to come back to that point, because that drove home 0:17:40.560 --> 0:17:43.560 the point, and I think this is what got him 0:17:43.600 --> 0:17:46.600 in the most trouble. They knew they were going to win, 0:17:47.359 --> 0:17:50.000 they knew they were going to win big, but that 0:17:50.119 --> 0:17:54.399 wasn't good enough. They had to destroy I don't not 0:17:54.480 --> 0:17:57.760 just beat McGovern, but they started to destroy McGovern, destroy 0:17:57.840 --> 0:18:02.520 the Democratic and so it was a classic case of overreach. Now, 0:18:03.080 --> 0:18:05.680 you you stay in the White House until seventies six, 0:18:05.680 --> 0:18:09.600 a year there through the impeachment. You're there through Ford's 0:18:09.720 --> 0:18:13.320 brief tenure, uh, and then Ford looses, of course to Carter, 0:18:13.359 --> 0:18:15.160 and then you leave. Did you leave at your own choice? 0:18:15.160 --> 0:18:16.480 Did you feel like you were done and you wanted 0:18:16.520 --> 0:18:18.720 to move on or what happened? No, I didn't. I 0:18:18.760 --> 0:18:22.640 didn't cover all of the very short uh forward period. 0:18:22.720 --> 0:18:25.480 I covered the very early stage of the board administration 0:18:26.640 --> 0:18:29.800 that CBS News chose to move me from the White 0:18:29.880 --> 0:18:35.480 House to New York uh, not long after President Nixon 0:18:35.520 --> 0:18:38.920 had resigned. Now, I thought at the time, and I'd 0:18:38.960 --> 0:18:40.920 be less than honest, but I didn't say I still 0:18:40.960 --> 0:18:45.560 believe that they moved me because I had become a 0:18:45.560 --> 0:18:51.000 controversial quote unquote. Now in fairness, Richard s Land, who 0:18:51.000 --> 0:18:53.880 was the president of CBS News at the time and 0:18:54.840 --> 0:18:57.800 probably the best president of the news division in history, 0:18:58.000 --> 0:19:00.600 he told me, no, damn, that's not the reason you're 0:19:00.600 --> 0:19:03.240 wrong about that. We're moving you because you think we 0:19:03.320 --> 0:19:06.200 think it's good for your career. But as I say, 0:19:06.280 --> 0:19:08.280 I didn't believe it in and I don't believe it 0:19:08.320 --> 0:19:11.159 now and you're there in New York doing what before 0:19:11.200 --> 0:19:13.920 they tapped you on the shoulder to succeed Cronkite. You 0:19:14.040 --> 0:19:17.800 succeed Cronkite? What year? I succeeded Walter Cronkite, And I 0:19:17.840 --> 0:19:21.879 appreciate you using the words succeed. Nobody replaces a legend 0:19:21.920 --> 0:19:25.399 like country. I succeeded Walter Cronkite in March of nine, 0:19:26.359 --> 0:19:29.520 I was named. So it's about five year period when 0:19:29.560 --> 0:19:33.040 I moved from the White House, having been there for 0:19:33.080 --> 0:19:35.840 a total of ten years. They moved me to New 0:19:35.880 --> 0:19:39.400 York and head of the documentary unit CBS Reports, which 0:19:39.440 --> 0:19:42.639 was the flagship documentary unit. I was there for a 0:19:42.680 --> 0:19:47.480 short while before they came and said, we're moving sixty 0:19:47.480 --> 0:19:50.800 minutes to seven o'clock on Sunday, and we need a 0:19:50.880 --> 0:19:54.720 third correspondent. They had two correspondents, Mike Wallace and Morley 0:19:54.760 --> 0:19:57.520 Safer at the time, and so I moved to sixty 0:19:57.520 --> 0:20:02.200 minutes in very early nineteen seven the six and you're 0:20:02.240 --> 0:20:05.960 there how long? I worked sixty minutes for the better 0:20:06.040 --> 0:20:08.879 part of seven years. I took the anchor chair in 0:20:10.000 --> 0:20:12.200 when you when you do that job, when you become 0:20:12.200 --> 0:20:15.200 the anchor. Is there a period of time when they 0:20:15.200 --> 0:20:17.320 come to you, when they tell you get ready, and 0:20:17.359 --> 0:20:19.240 they start to groom you, and you know what's coming 0:20:19.280 --> 0:20:21.560 months in advance. When you go home on a Friday 0:20:21.560 --> 0:20:23.399 and you come in money and you're the anchor? What wit? What? 0:20:23.400 --> 0:20:25.040 How does it? I wish that had been the case, 0:20:25.119 --> 0:20:28.159 because I might have been better at it had that 0:20:28.240 --> 0:20:30.960 been the case. But look, I was a line correspondent. 0:20:31.000 --> 0:20:33.560 I love being a field correspondent. I was a land 0:20:33.600 --> 0:20:38.159 correspondent for almost twenty years. And uh, nobody said to me, 0:20:38.200 --> 0:20:43.000 we're preparing you to be Walter Cronkite's successor. And quite frankly, 0:20:43.119 --> 0:20:47.080 until very late in the game, I didn't really consider it. 0:20:47.840 --> 0:20:49.840 Uh you know, I thought across the line, that would 0:20:49.880 --> 0:20:53.119 be nice, pays well and get your name in the paper. 0:20:53.200 --> 0:20:56.439 But it wasn't something that I thought was in my future. 0:20:57.000 --> 0:21:00.400 What do you miss about that job? I missed the people. 0:21:01.520 --> 0:21:04.960 When you work closely every day with people, remember the 0:21:04.960 --> 0:21:08.720 EV users, five days a week, every night. When I 0:21:08.800 --> 0:21:11.720 left CBS News and left the anchorage here, I thought 0:21:11.760 --> 0:21:14.560 I would miss it more than it turned up was 0:21:14.600 --> 0:21:17.800 the case. I missed every day working with the people 0:21:17.800 --> 0:21:21.280 that I've worked with tremendous people, great professionals in that 0:21:21.480 --> 0:21:25.000 camaradie of the newsroom, and missing the people that's still 0:21:25.040 --> 0:21:31.240 with me. Dan Rather misses his colleagues at CBS, but 0:21:31.320 --> 0:21:34.880 he tries not to miss a big story at three. 0:21:35.119 --> 0:21:38.840 Rather regularly reads six newspapers a day and still hosts 0:21:38.840 --> 0:21:44.639 his own show, The Big Interview on Access TV. Explore 0:21:44.720 --> 0:21:48.320 the Here's the Thing archives, you'll find my conversation with 0:21:48.359 --> 0:21:52.560 Dick Cavitt, another person comfortable with asking tough questions. He 0:21:52.640 --> 0:21:55.720 admits there are some words you'll never hear him say. 0:21:56.280 --> 0:21:58.800 I swore to God recently that I would never say 0:21:58.840 --> 0:22:01.760 the word awesome and my life and if we could 0:22:01.800 --> 0:22:05.160 only make that true everyone in the world, that would 0:22:05.200 --> 0:22:11.240 be swell. They can go along with iconic and closure 0:22:12.160 --> 0:22:16.720 and like of course, and a few others. Amazing. We 0:22:16.880 --> 0:22:19.520 all are saying amazing all the time. Now I've got 0:22:19.520 --> 0:22:25.000 five amazings and watching morning television for about forty minutes 0:22:25.040 --> 0:22:28.560 the other day. Amazing gas, amazing gas. We have it's 0:22:28.560 --> 0:22:33.000 amazing script. It's just amazing. I was amazed by career. Amazes. Man. 0:22:33.520 --> 0:22:57.280 Take a listen, and here's the Thing dot org. This 0:22:57.359 --> 0:23:00.240 is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing. 0:23:00.840 --> 0:23:04.400 The new film Truth, starring Robert Redford as Dan Rather 0:23:04.760 --> 0:23:08.280 and Kate Blanchette as his producer Mary Mapes, explores the 0:23:08.280 --> 0:23:12.719 most controversial point in rather His long career. The movie 0:23:12.840 --> 0:23:16.800 chronicles the before and after of his now infamous sixty 0:23:16.800 --> 0:23:21.239 minutes report, casting President George W. Bush's military record in 0:23:21.440 --> 0:23:24.800 a negative light. The documents at the heart of Rather's 0:23:24.840 --> 0:23:28.399 allegations were never authenticated. I'm not perfect. I've made a 0:23:28.440 --> 0:23:31.240 lot of mistakes. But what I've tried to do other 0:23:31.280 --> 0:23:33.840 people who have to judge how well how poorly I 0:23:33.880 --> 0:23:38.120 did it. I've tried to be a bull, no puncher's play, 0:23:38.200 --> 0:23:42.280 no favorites, lifetime reporter who's loyal to the people he 0:23:42.359 --> 0:23:47.119 works with, supports the people he works with, and Bob 0:23:47.119 --> 0:23:51.080 Redford in his film captured that essence to a degree. 0:23:51.160 --> 0:23:54.520 I didn't think it was possible, and my gratitude runs 0:23:54.560 --> 0:23:57.919 really deep to him for doing that. For those of 0:23:57.960 --> 0:24:00.240 you who have seen the film, there is a shot 0:24:00.280 --> 0:24:03.639 at the end of the stone. I mean, you can't 0:24:03.680 --> 0:24:06.359 get more licked head to toe in a movie than 0:24:06.400 --> 0:24:09.000