1 00:00:06,760 --> 00:00:09,840 Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the thing, 2 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:15,560 Speaker 1: My chance to talk with artists, policymakers and performers, to 3 00:00:15,680 --> 00:00:20,080 Speaker 1: hear their stories, what inspires their creations, what decisions change 4 00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:25,840 Speaker 1: their careers, what relationships influenced their work. In nineteen sixty one, 5 00:00:26,360 --> 00:00:30,800 Speaker 1: Hurricane Carla was threatening the Texas coast. A young reporter 6 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:34,960 Speaker 1: named Dan Rather used radar technology on the air for 7 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:37,920 Speaker 1: the very first time to show viewers the size of 8 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:42,400 Speaker 1: the storm. CBS network executives took note and offered Rather 9 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:45,760 Speaker 1: a job as a correspondent. CBS would become Rather as 10 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:50,839 Speaker 1: home for the next four decades. Rather built a reputation 11 00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:55,320 Speaker 1: for hard nosed, in depth reporting. This reputation was called 12 00:00:55,320 --> 00:00:58,600 Speaker 1: into question in two thousand four after his sixty minutes 13 00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:04,520 Speaker 1: report about President George W. Bush's military service. CBS conducted 14 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:09,039 Speaker 1: an exhaustive investigation on the veracity of Rather's peace. Rather 15 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:14,360 Speaker 1: apologized and eventually stepped down truth. A film depicting the 16 00:01:14,440 --> 00:01:17,720 Speaker 1: lead up to and chaos surrounding that segment on sixty 17 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:21,680 Speaker 1: Minutes is in theaters now. It stars Robert Redford as 18 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:25,920 Speaker 1: my guest Today, Dan Rather. This conversation was recorded Live 19 00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:29,399 Speaker 1: as part of the Hampton's International Film Festival a couple 20 00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:32,640 Speaker 1: of weeks ago, as Dan Rather told me, his own 21 00:01:32,680 --> 00:01:35,959 Speaker 1: military career started off with a lie that he was 22 00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:39,680 Speaker 1: fit for service. I'm a child of the oppression years 23 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:43,200 Speaker 1: in World War Two, and when the Korean War came up. 24 00:01:43,680 --> 00:01:46,920 Speaker 1: I know this sounds strange in today's environment more than 25 00:01:46,959 --> 00:01:50,600 Speaker 1: fifty years later, but my country was at war and 26 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:53,320 Speaker 1: I wanted to fight. I was four f because I'd 27 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:55,640 Speaker 1: had rheumatic fever when I was a child, which was 28 00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 1: a so called disqualifying disease. I'm not proud of it, 29 00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:03,720 Speaker 1: but when it came down with the Marines, I just 30 00:02:04,640 --> 00:02:07,680 Speaker 1: when I told him, I didn't have any disqualifying diseases. 31 00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 1: But I have one of the shortest and least distinguished 32 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:12,400 Speaker 1: records in the whole history of the United States. But 33 00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:16,000 Speaker 1: Marine Corps because they eventually found out, and so I 34 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:17,680 Speaker 1: was in the Marines for a short time. I didn't 35 00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:20,680 Speaker 1: see combat. I saw nothing but southern California. But I've 36 00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:23,200 Speaker 1: always been glad uh for the time I was in 37 00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:27,360 Speaker 1: I think I learned alec more. Perhaps in the short 38 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 1: time I was in the Marines. In any other such 39 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:32,600 Speaker 1: periody in my life that one of the four example. 40 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:36,440 Speaker 1: One of the things that the Marines teach you is 41 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:38,040 Speaker 1: that you can do a whole lot more than you 42 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:40,280 Speaker 1: think you can do. But any reach suffice to say, 43 00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:43,720 Speaker 1: uh that I wasn't in for very long. I didn't 44 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:45,400 Speaker 1: do very much when I was in there. The most 45 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:47,760 Speaker 1: I can say is I volunteered to go, but did 46 00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:52,919 Speaker 1: did a affinity for fighting men and now currently fighting 47 00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:55,520 Speaker 1: men and women. Did that influence your career when you 48 00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:58,440 Speaker 1: were in Vietnam? Is that what you wanted? Is that 49 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:04,040 Speaker 1: what you do? Yes? That that and the recognition. And 50 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:06,519 Speaker 1: I've made a lot of mistakes over my career, most 51 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:09,079 Speaker 1: of which are fairly obvious, and I have discard to 52 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:13,640 Speaker 1: show it. But when the Vietnam War started, uh one, 53 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:17,600 Speaker 1: I've recognized that it could become one of the dividing 54 00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:21,440 Speaker 1: stories of my time. And if you're a journalist, you 55 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:23,480 Speaker 1: know your prayer every day is God to give me 56 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:27,240 Speaker 1: the big story. And since we're all greedy, right behind that, 57 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:30,200 Speaker 1: your prayer is and oh, by the way, God, if 58 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 1: you give you the big story, please let me be 59 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 1: at or near my best day. But yes, my going 60 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:38,520 Speaker 1: to Vietnam was partly based on my short undistinguished time 61 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:42,920 Speaker 1: in the Marines. Uh, I was remarkably unprepared to go 62 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:45,760 Speaker 1: to Vietnam. And I will say that to this day, 63 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:48,400 Speaker 1: and let's face it, I've been really lucky and blessed 64 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:51,720 Speaker 1: by being on a lot of big stories. Uh. That 65 00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:55,200 Speaker 1: the honor and I used that word measuredly, the honor 66 00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:59,320 Speaker 1: of covering American men and women in combat in that 67 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:03,960 Speaker 1: Green Uncle Hell, was one that obviously never forget over 68 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:06,800 Speaker 1: What period of time did you visit Vietnam? Well, it 69 00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 1: wasn't a visit. I was there for the better part 70 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:15,640 Speaker 1: of a year late nineteen assigned there and stayed there 71 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 1: a better part of a year in late nineteen sixty 72 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:22,720 Speaker 1: til nineteen sixty six. I went back another three times, 73 00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:25,240 Speaker 1: maybe four times after that, but never for that long. 74 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:29,039 Speaker 1: And when you were there to be credentialed and to 75 00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:31,800 Speaker 1: get the permission to go there by the military, I'm 76 00:04:31,839 --> 00:04:34,040 Speaker 1: assuming it was a lot different than than it is now, 77 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:38,359 Speaker 1: a great deal different. The biggest difference in covering combat 78 00:04:38,839 --> 00:04:43,320 Speaker 1: Corres Monastery today as compared to the Vietnam era. In Vietnam, 79 00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:48,240 Speaker 1: we were basically in the hitchhiking business. Uh. If you 80 00:04:48,279 --> 00:04:51,159 Speaker 1: were a credential correspondence, you could go any place you 81 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:53,400 Speaker 1: wanted to go if you could get there, and the 82 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 1: military would accommodate you. So we you look for a 83 00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:59,159 Speaker 1: helicopter or a convoy going where you want to go, 84 00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:02,320 Speaker 1: and you could go you where. And as a consequence, 85 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:06,839 Speaker 1: correspondence are not just myself, but correspondence in general, particularly 86 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:10,160 Speaker 1: television correspondents, because you have to get the pictures that 87 00:05:10,279 --> 00:05:14,120 Speaker 1: we saw the war in every area of South Vietnam, 88 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:16,760 Speaker 1: from the DMZ all the way down to the Delta, 89 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:21,240 Speaker 1: which was rare even for people in the military. Frequently 90 00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:23,719 Speaker 1: they were in one section, being the Highlands, but they 91 00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:28,400 Speaker 1: didn't see the Delta. But that's all changed now that 92 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:32,320 Speaker 1: when you cover American men women in combat today, it's 93 00:05:32,440 --> 00:05:36,839 Speaker 1: it's all very tightly controlled. Some people say it's tightly 94 00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:41,880 Speaker 1: controlled because of you. Well, some people see that you 95 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:43,880 Speaker 1: were unearthing too much of the facts of what we're 96 00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:46,479 Speaker 1: going on a viet Well, I think that's a bit much. 97 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:51,000 Speaker 1: But I do think that the military speaking in general, 98 00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:53,919 Speaker 1: felt that they learned out of Vietnam that if you 99 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:58,080 Speaker 1: let correspondence and news organizations go anywhere in each other place, 100 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:03,240 Speaker 1: then the control the narrative, that you do not control 101 00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:08,040 Speaker 1: the narrative. And the military, regardless of whose military it is, 102 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:12,360 Speaker 1: they're always eager to control the narrative. Now we can 103 00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:14,120 Speaker 1: spend the rest after you're talking about it, but it 104 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:17,880 Speaker 1: will make one point that doesn't begin with the military. 105 00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:21,920 Speaker 1: That begins with the White House and the Defense Department. 106 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:25,360 Speaker 1: They want to control the narrative. Therefore they have the 107 00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:28,600 Speaker 1: military and make the rules saying, don't let these reporters 108 00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:30,720 Speaker 1: go everywhere they want to go and do whatever they 109 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:33,839 Speaker 1: want to do. Oh, they have a system called embedding, 110 00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:36,719 Speaker 1: which is to say, you're assigned to a certain unit 111 00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:39,960 Speaker 1: or a certain area and you have an escort, but 112 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:44,120 Speaker 1: an escort. There are some exceptions to that, but very few. 113 00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:46,320 Speaker 1: But that's the biggest change between today and who was 114 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:48,080 Speaker 1: the part during the period of time when you were 115 00:06:48,120 --> 00:06:50,520 Speaker 1: in Vietnam. You were stationed in Psychon for that year 116 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:54,200 Speaker 1: that was what year? That was sixty five and sixty 117 00:06:54,279 --> 00:06:58,000 Speaker 1: So so this was McNamara and Johnson. That's correct, But 118 00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:00,800 Speaker 1: they always felt they had made a mistake by allowing 119 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:03,640 Speaker 1: the press to do that. But footnote bottom of the page. 120 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:06,240 Speaker 1: When the U. S. Military did its own analysis of 121 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:10,000 Speaker 1: what happened in Vietnam and what went wrong. They addressed 122 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:13,960 Speaker 1: the question of, quote, did the press lose the war? Unquote? 123 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:18,520 Speaker 1: And this is the military's own analysis are written in 124 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:22,720 Speaker 1: the Midden late nineteen seventies, eighties, I think. But anyway, 125 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:26,120 Speaker 1: they concluded it was not the press that lost the war. 126 00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:28,680 Speaker 1: It was a lack of strategy and a lack of 127 00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:32,560 Speaker 1: proper strategy and transparency with the American people, and the 128 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:35,640 Speaker 1: lack of transparency with the American people led to a 129 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:39,040 Speaker 1: diminution in support for the war. You were assigned as 130 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:42,960 Speaker 1: the White House correspondent when I first came to White 131 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:46,480 Speaker 1: House in January of nineteen sixty four. This was just 132 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:49,280 Speaker 1: after the Kennedy assassination. As you know, I was in 133 00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:54,120 Speaker 1: Dallas with the Kennedy assassination. And when President Johnson ascended 134 00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:56,880 Speaker 1: to the presidency, I came. I covered the White House 135 00:07:56,880 --> 00:08:00,600 Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty four. Then I went oversee including the 136 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:04,320 Speaker 1: time of Vietnam, and I came back in very late 137 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:10,840 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty six and was there until roughly nineteen seventy six. Okay, 138 00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:13,080 Speaker 1: so you're you're covering the White House that period of time. 139 00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:16,520 Speaker 1: So there's how shall we say there's Uh, they changed 140 00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:18,480 Speaker 1: a lot more than the drapery at the White House 141 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:21,200 Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty eight. And what was that like for you? 142 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:23,720 Speaker 1: Was to cover the new administration. Well, you know, when 143 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:27,080 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty eight came, the country was in such turmoil. 144 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:29,400 Speaker 1: I'm just we don't need to review the whole thing. 145 00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:32,840 Speaker 1: But Robert Kennedy had been assassinated. Dr Martin Luther King 146 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:36,160 Speaker 1: had been assassinated. They were race riots in the country 147 00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:39,640 Speaker 1: and rose from the dead politically. So when President Nixon 148 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:42,439 Speaker 1: was elected in nineteen eight, I had met him and 149 00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:45,960 Speaker 1: had covered him, but only briefly. And I frankly thought 150 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:50,200 Speaker 1: at the time, well, you know, um, independent politically, but 151 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:53,640 Speaker 1: this may be good for the country. Uh that we've 152 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:57,400 Speaker 1: had eight years of a democratic administration. Things are not 153 00:08:57,480 --> 00:09:00,240 Speaker 1: all that good. So here's a new breath of air. 154 00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:05,080 Speaker 1: But I quickly learned that the Nixon people, including President Nixon, 155 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:08,760 Speaker 1: they had such a deep and abiding hatred. And I 156 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:12,680 Speaker 1: used that word measuredly for the press that for example, 157 00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:16,000 Speaker 1: shortly as they came on a man named hr Bob 158 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:20,040 Speaker 1: Haltelman he later became a figure in the Watergate things. Uh, 159 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:22,920 Speaker 1: I met him, he came in and he no, sooner said. 160 00:09:22,960 --> 00:09:24,600 Speaker 1: Then he said, we know who you are and what 161 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:27,679 Speaker 1: you are. I was saying to myself, well, that's more 162 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:31,280 Speaker 1: than I know about myself. Tell me what you know. 163 00:09:32,120 --> 00:09:34,520 Speaker 1: So I said, well, what do you mean? He said, well, 164 00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:36,959 Speaker 1: you know you were died in the world. This is 165 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:39,960 Speaker 1: a paraphrase, but a pretty close paraphrase. You're dying the 166 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:46,800 Speaker 1: will liberal, borderline socialist Lyndon Johnson Democrat, which astonished me 167 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:49,920 Speaker 1: to hear him say it, but it was replatory, and 168 00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:52,840 Speaker 1: then it revealed to me the first time we have 169 00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:57,280 Speaker 1: a problem here. And of course the Nixon presidency of 170 00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:01,480 Speaker 1: it got off to a reasonably good star. If you remember, 171 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:04,160 Speaker 1: he promised that he had a plan to in the war, 172 00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:07,680 Speaker 1: when in fact he had a plan to expand the war. 173 00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:11,079 Speaker 1: But things quickly went from bad to worst, not just 174 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:14,200 Speaker 1: with myself but with the press scer in general, both 175 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:19,320 Speaker 1: print and electronic, because they had this this deep and 176 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:23,760 Speaker 1: abiding hostility, at least borderlinding on hatred towards the pression. 177 00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:26,880 Speaker 1: When when you're there, I mean, this is my opinion, 178 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:33,080 Speaker 1: you are someone who is viewed by conservative forces in 179 00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:36,280 Speaker 1: the country as being liberally biased. They always tried to 180 00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:39,320 Speaker 1: tire you with that way you sell. You seek the 181 00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:43,599 Speaker 1: truth about Nixon's activities, you seek the truth about Iran contract, 182 00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:47,080 Speaker 1: and you're always being labeled as a liberal as being 183 00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:49,400 Speaker 1: liberally biased because you really wanted them to actually answer 184 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:52,160 Speaker 1: your questions. Do you see it that way? I do? 185 00:10:52,679 --> 00:10:55,240 Speaker 1: And beyond that, I was always proud of the fact 186 00:10:55,880 --> 00:10:59,280 Speaker 1: that I was part of CBS US history and tradition 187 00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:03,000 Speaker 1: and mission of CBS News, which was to take on 188 00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:06,920 Speaker 1: the tough things, to pull no punches, play no favorite 189 00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:11,400 Speaker 1: and the two parts elect respond to this business of 190 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:17,600 Speaker 1: you know, some liberal, politically biased person Number one. I 191 00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:20,400 Speaker 1: grew up in Texas and I'm not playing humble beginnings, 192 00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:22,720 Speaker 1: but my father was a distiger and my mother was 193 00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:26,760 Speaker 1: a waitress. I went to nothing but public schools, including 194 00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:32,400 Speaker 1: Sam Houston State Teachers College, small public school, product of Texas, 195 00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:38,600 Speaker 1: product of Texas public schools. Volunteers went in the Marine Corps. Uh, 196 00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:43,120 Speaker 1: what wildlining here. This is hardly the background of someone 197 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:46,840 Speaker 1: who's going to turn out to be some elite Eastern liberal. 198 00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:49,720 Speaker 1: I was always amazed at the number of people who said, well, 199 00:11:49,760 --> 00:11:53,120 Speaker 1: you're just another one of those ivy league of elite 200 00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:56,720 Speaker 1: liberal people. Well, Sam Howson State Teacher College, which is 201 00:11:56,720 --> 00:12:00,000 Speaker 1: now sayingson State University that's not in the IVY League. 202 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:04,400 Speaker 1: Sam Houston College, well I love the place, but it 203 00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:06,880 Speaker 1: has about as much IVY United as your average taco 204 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:13,560 Speaker 1: bellow McDonald's. So that's number one. The number two that 205 00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:18,480 Speaker 1: CBS News was was a leader in taking on the 206 00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:21,319 Speaker 1: controversial issues, asking the tough questions going on the way 207 00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:25,400 Speaker 1: back to Edward R. Merle and the McCarthy era. CBS 208 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:28,120 Speaker 1: News was a leader in covering the early part of 209 00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:31,200 Speaker 1: the Civil rights movement, was the point person on that. 210 00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:34,120 Speaker 1: It was a leader in coverage of the Vietnam War. 211 00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:37,800 Speaker 1: It was the leader CBS News, not just myself, but 212 00:12:37,960 --> 00:12:41,920 Speaker 1: I was leader in covering that widespread criminal conspiracy which 213 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:44,640 Speaker 1: is normally shorthanded border gate. Do you take all that 214 00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:47,840 Speaker 1: history now? When people don't like the way you report, 215 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:52,280 Speaker 1: what they seek to do is detigrate you. And one 216 00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:54,160 Speaker 1: way to do that is hang a sign around you 217 00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:59,640 Speaker 1: liberal or socialist or left that hang around I was 218 00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:04,360 Speaker 1: gonna say, I think you know him pretty well. Some 219 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:07,680 Speaker 1: people will say, I mean, in my lifetime, some people 220 00:13:07,679 --> 00:13:12,520 Speaker 1: will look back and reassess these periods in history, and 221 00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:14,280 Speaker 1: they'll talk about a lot of the good things that 222 00:13:14,360 --> 00:13:17,959 Speaker 1: Nixon did, And I'm wondering, do you re assess him now? 223 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:19,880 Speaker 1: Do you think that there was some good things that 224 00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:22,720 Speaker 1: he did? And well, unquestionably he did some good things 225 00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:26,560 Speaker 1: and he accomplished some good things during his presidency. After all, 226 00:13:26,760 --> 00:13:30,600 Speaker 1: where did he go wrong? Uh, that's a good question 227 00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:32,720 Speaker 1: to psychologist, But I do want to answer the question. 228 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:35,600 Speaker 1: I think where he went wrong for whatever reason, and 229 00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:38,640 Speaker 1: I have no reason to know this. With President Nixon, 230 00:13:38,679 --> 00:13:42,520 Speaker 1: he came to believe that it wasn't enough to defeat 231 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:46,160 Speaker 1: his political enemies, that he had to destroy them. And 232 00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:48,880 Speaker 1: that's a there's a big difference between English. We're gonna 233 00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:51,199 Speaker 1: fight like hell during the election, but once the election 234 00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:54,040 Speaker 1: is over, then move shake hands and try to do 235 00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:56,360 Speaker 1: some good things for the country. And I think where 236 00:13:56,360 --> 00:13:58,760 Speaker 1: he went wrong was a long time before he came 237 00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:02,200 Speaker 1: to the presidency, when he had this idea, Listen, it 238 00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:05,319 Speaker 1: isn't enough to defeat my opponents, I have to destroy 239 00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:11,000 Speaker 1: and that permeated his administration. Now as the reassessing of 240 00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:15,920 Speaker 1: President Nixon, there's been a widespread and well financed effort 241 00:14:16,559 --> 00:14:20,000 Speaker 1: to rehabilitate the legacy of Richard Nixon. I think that's 242 00:14:20,040 --> 00:14:24,360 Speaker 1: what you're referring to, and they make some valid points. However, 243 00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:29,400 Speaker 1: I don't think the history if it mentions Richard Nixon 244 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:32,360 Speaker 1: a hundred years or five hundred years from now, the 245 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:37,960 Speaker 1: inescapable fact is that he, as president, led this widespread 246 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:42,240 Speaker 1: criminal conspiracy. Keeping mind, more than forty people were indicted, 247 00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:45,680 Speaker 1: many of them were convicted of felonies, and the president 248 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:49,680 Speaker 1: himself was forced to resign after being called by a 249 00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:53,600 Speaker 1: grand jury an unindicted co conspiracy. When you sit there 250 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:57,160 Speaker 1: in your job and you've seen the president killed, and 251 00:14:57,240 --> 00:15:00,360 Speaker 1: you see and again, would you say the you don't 252 00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:06,120 Speaker 1: need to rehash the ramp up to the sixty eight election. 253 00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:09,160 Speaker 1: I think it is important for people to understand in 254 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:13,280 Speaker 1: that context how seminal sixty eight was, with r f 255 00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:18,000 Speaker 1: K and an MLK dying that spring, the Democratic Convention 256 00:15:18,080 --> 00:15:21,640 Speaker 1: is of fiasco. You're seeing the Democratic Party unraveling before 257 00:15:21,640 --> 00:15:25,400 Speaker 1: your eyes. Nixon, who you can't put a finer point 258 00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:27,640 Speaker 1: on this, that Dixon was someone who he was dead. 259 00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:30,560 Speaker 1: I mean he was dead, he comes back and wins 260 00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:33,360 Speaker 1: the presidency of the United States. I mean sixty eight 261 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:37,440 Speaker 1: is just this is this amazing year and uh, but 262 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:40,080 Speaker 1: when you when you travel down and you get to 263 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:44,360 Speaker 1: seventy three, where even you stunned that he he had 264 00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:47,960 Speaker 1: won a landslide re election, one of the greatest landslides 265 00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:51,440 Speaker 1: in American history in nineteen seventy two, and a year 266 00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:54,320 Speaker 1: later he resigned. He was out. We didn't even stunn 267 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:58,120 Speaker 1: you that that happened. Well it did, and I was slow. 268 00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:02,840 Speaker 1: You know, orders get paid to be skeptical. Never cynical, 269 00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:09,200 Speaker 1: but skeptical. And when the first first faint edges of 270 00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:10,920 Speaker 1: what we came to know as what a gate you 271 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:13,880 Speaker 1: can do emerged, I was skeptical that it would reach 272 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:17,880 Speaker 1: the Oval office itself. That you never met anybody who 273 00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:20,480 Speaker 1: had more respect for the office of the Presidency in 274 00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:23,360 Speaker 1: the United States than I do every day when I 275 00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:25,480 Speaker 1: walked through the White House gates to go to work, 276 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:27,840 Speaker 1: as a White House corresponded. I know it may sound 277 00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:31,760 Speaker 1: on a corny and sophomoric, but I really um sort 278 00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:33,480 Speaker 1: of sucked it up and said to myself, you know, 279 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:37,920 Speaker 1: this counts, this was important, and so I didn't believe 280 00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:41,640 Speaker 1: that whatever crimes had been committed, even became apparent that 281 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:44,560 Speaker 1: crimes had been committed, it was very difficult for me 282 00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:47,200 Speaker 1: to accept that the President himself would be involved in 283 00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:51,440 Speaker 1: any way. However, as time went a long, facts begin 284 00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:55,240 Speaker 1: to first whisper, then they began to speak in full voice, 285 00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:58,680 Speaker 1: and then the facts began to shout. It isn't just 286 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:03,400 Speaker 1: lower level campaign opportunities, It isn't just lower level members 287 00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:06,919 Speaker 1: of the administration. That this probably goes into the Oval 288 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:10,399 Speaker 1: office itself. And I felt like hell about it, And 289 00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:12,240 Speaker 1: for a long time I bought it and said, then, 290 00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:16,040 Speaker 1: you know, but it almost impossible to believe that the 291 00:17:16,119 --> 00:17:19,240 Speaker 1: president would be involved in this. But as I say, 292 00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:23,240 Speaker 1: the facts finally got overwhelming where it was undeniable. I 293 00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:26,360 Speaker 1: do want to go back to uh, you said, well, 294 00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:29,760 Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy three, he had just come off a smashing, 295 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:32,480 Speaker 1: one of the most decisive victories in the history of 296 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:37,120 Speaker 1: the president. I wouldn't absolutely crushed McGovern, But I want 297 00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:40,480 Speaker 1: to come back to that point, because that drove home 298 00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:43,560 Speaker 1: the point, and I think this is what got him 299 00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:46,600 Speaker 1: in the most trouble. They knew they were going to win, 300 00:17:47,359 --> 00:17:50,000 Speaker 1: they knew they were going to win big, but that 301 00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:54,399 Speaker 1: wasn't good enough. They had to destroy I don't not 302 00:17:54,480 --> 00:17:57,760 Speaker 1: just beat McGovern, but they started to destroy McGovern, destroy 303 00:17:57,840 --> 00:18:02,520 Speaker 1: the Democratic and so it was a classic case of overreach. Now, 304 00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:05,680 Speaker 1: you you stay in the White House until seventies six, 305 00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:09,600 Speaker 1: a year there through the impeachment. You're there through Ford's 306 00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:13,320 Speaker 1: brief tenure, uh, and then Ford looses, of course to Carter, 307 00:18:13,359 --> 00:18:15,160 Speaker 1: and then you leave. Did you leave at your own choice? 308 00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:16,480 Speaker 1: Did you feel like you were done and you wanted 309 00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:18,720 Speaker 1: to move on or what happened? No, I didn't. I 310 00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:22,640 Speaker 1: didn't cover all of the very short uh forward period. 311 00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:25,480 Speaker 1: I covered the very early stage of the board administration 312 00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:29,800 Speaker 1: that CBS News chose to move me from the White 313 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:35,480 Speaker 1: House to New York uh, not long after President Nixon 314 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:38,920 Speaker 1: had resigned. Now, I thought at the time, and I'd 315 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:40,920 Speaker 1: be less than honest, but I didn't say I still 316 00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:45,560 Speaker 1: believe that they moved me because I had become a 317 00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:51,000 Speaker 1: controversial quote unquote. Now in fairness, Richard s Land, who 318 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:53,880 Speaker 1: was the president of CBS News at the time and 319 00:18:54,840 --> 00:18:57,800 Speaker 1: probably the best president of the news division in history, 320 00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:00,600 Speaker 1: he told me, no, damn, that's not the reason you're 321 00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:03,240 Speaker 1: wrong about that. We're moving you because you think we 322 00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:06,200 Speaker 1: think it's good for your career. But as I say, 323 00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:08,280 Speaker 1: I didn't believe it in and I don't believe it 324 00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:11,159 Speaker 1: now and you're there in New York doing what before 325 00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:13,920 Speaker 1: they tapped you on the shoulder to succeed Cronkite. You 326 00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:17,800 Speaker 1: succeed Cronkite? What year? I succeeded Walter Cronkite, And I 327 00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:21,879 Speaker 1: appreciate you using the words succeed. Nobody replaces a legend 328 00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:25,399 Speaker 1: like country. I succeeded Walter Cronkite in March of nine, 329 00:19:26,359 --> 00:19:29,520 Speaker 1: I was named. So it's about five year period when 330 00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:33,040 Speaker 1: I moved from the White House, having been there for 331 00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:35,840 Speaker 1: a total of ten years. They moved me to New 332 00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:39,400 Speaker 1: York and head of the documentary unit CBS Reports, which 333 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:42,639 Speaker 1: was the flagship documentary unit. I was there for a 334 00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:47,480 Speaker 1: short while before they came and said, we're moving sixty 335 00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:50,800 Speaker 1: minutes to seven o'clock on Sunday, and we need a 336 00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:54,720 Speaker 1: third correspondent. They had two correspondents, Mike Wallace and Morley 337 00:19:54,760 --> 00:19:57,520 Speaker 1: Safer at the time, and so I moved to sixty 338 00:19:57,520 --> 00:20:02,200 Speaker 1: minutes in very early nineteen seven the six and you're 339 00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:05,960 Speaker 1: there how long? I worked sixty minutes for the better 340 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:08,879 Speaker 1: part of seven years. I took the anchor chair in 341 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:12,200 Speaker 1: when you when you do that job, when you become 342 00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:15,200 Speaker 1: the anchor. Is there a period of time when they 343 00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:17,320 Speaker 1: come to you, when they tell you get ready, and 344 00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:19,240 Speaker 1: they start to groom you, and you know what's coming 345 00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:21,560 Speaker 1: months in advance. When you go home on a Friday 346 00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:23,399 Speaker 1: and you come in money and you're the anchor? What wit? What? 347 00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:25,040 Speaker 1: How does it? I wish that had been the case, 348 00:20:25,119 --> 00:20:28,159 Speaker 1: because I might have been better at it had that 349 00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:30,960 Speaker 1: been the case. But look, I was a line correspondent. 350 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:33,560 Speaker 1: I love being a field correspondent. I was a land 351 00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:38,159 Speaker 1: correspondent for almost twenty years. And uh, nobody said to me, 352 00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:43,000 Speaker 1: we're preparing you to be Walter Cronkite's successor. And quite frankly, 353 00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:47,080 Speaker 1: until very late in the game, I didn't really consider it. 354 00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:49,840 Speaker 1: Uh you know, I thought across the line, that would 355 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:53,119 Speaker 1: be nice, pays well and get your name in the paper. 356 00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:56,439 Speaker 1: But it wasn't something that I thought was in my future. 357 00:20:57,000 --> 00:21:00,400 Speaker 1: What do you miss about that job? I missed the people. 358 00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:04,960 Speaker 1: When you work closely every day with people, remember the 359 00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:08,720 Speaker 1: EV users, five days a week, every night. When I 360 00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:11,720 Speaker 1: left CBS News and left the anchorage here, I thought 361 00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:14,560 Speaker 1: I would miss it more than it turned up was 362 00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:17,800 Speaker 1: the case. I missed every day working with the people 363 00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:21,280 Speaker 1: that I've worked with tremendous people, great professionals in that 364 00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:25,000 Speaker 1: camaradie of the newsroom, and missing the people that's still 365 00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:31,240 Speaker 1: with me. Dan Rather misses his colleagues at CBS, but 366 00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:34,880 Speaker 1: he tries not to miss a big story at three. 367 00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:38,840 Speaker 1: Rather regularly reads six newspapers a day and still hosts 368 00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:44,639 Speaker 1: his own show, The Big Interview on Access TV. Explore 369 00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:48,320 Speaker 1: the Here's the Thing archives, you'll find my conversation with 370 00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:52,560 Speaker 1: Dick Cavitt, another person comfortable with asking tough questions. He 371 00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:55,720 Speaker 1: admits there are some words you'll never hear him say. 372 00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:58,800 Speaker 1: I swore to God recently that I would never say 373 00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:01,760 Speaker 1: the word awesome and my life and if we could 374 00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:05,160 Speaker 1: only make that true everyone in the world, that would 375 00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:11,240 Speaker 1: be swell. They can go along with iconic and closure 376 00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:16,720 Speaker 1: and like of course, and a few others. Amazing. We 377 00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:19,520 Speaker 1: all are saying amazing all the time. Now I've got 378 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:25,000 Speaker 1: five amazings and watching morning television for about forty minutes 379 00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:28,560 Speaker 1: the other day. Amazing gas, amazing gas. We have it's 380 00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:33,000 Speaker 1: amazing script. It's just amazing. I was amazed by career. Amazes. Man. 381 00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:57,280 Speaker 1: Take a listen, and here's the Thing dot org. This 382 00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:00,240 Speaker 1: is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing. 383 00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:04,400 Speaker 1: The new film Truth, starring Robert Redford as Dan Rather 384 00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:08,280 Speaker 1: and Kate Blanchette as his producer Mary Mapes, explores the 385 00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:12,719 Speaker 1: most controversial point in rather His long career. The movie 386 00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:16,800 Speaker 1: chronicles the before and after of his now infamous sixty 387 00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:21,239 Speaker 1: minutes report, casting President George W. Bush's military record in 388 00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:24,800 Speaker 1: a negative light. The documents at the heart of Rather's 389 00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:28,399 Speaker 1: allegations were never authenticated. I'm not perfect. I've made a 390 00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:31,240 Speaker 1: lot of mistakes. But what I've tried to do other 391 00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:33,840 Speaker 1: people who have to judge how well how poorly I 392 00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:38,120 Speaker 1: did it. I've tried to be a bull, no puncher's play, 393 00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:42,280 Speaker 1: no favorites, lifetime reporter who's loyal to the people he 394 00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:47,119 Speaker 1: works with, supports the people he works with, and Bob 395 00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:51,080 Speaker 1: Redford in his film captured that essence to a degree. 396 00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:54,520 Speaker 1: I didn't think it was possible, and my gratitude runs 397 00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:57,919 Speaker 1: really deep to him for doing that. For those of 398 00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:00,240 Speaker 1: you who have seen the film, there is a shot 399 00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:03,639 Speaker 1: at the end of the stone. I mean, you can't 400 00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:06,359 Speaker 1: get more licked head to toe in a movie than 401 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:09,000 Speaker 1: they lick you head to toe in this movie with 402 00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:12,080 Speaker 1: that slow motion shot of Redford beaming. I mean it's 403 00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:15,240 Speaker 1: almost like you're you have you're the only thing missing 404 00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:16,879 Speaker 1: is they put Christmas lights on you. You know what 405 00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:19,960 Speaker 1: I mean. It's so loving and respectful at the end. 406 00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:23,639 Speaker 1: But um, but the uh so mapes with somebody. You 407 00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:26,600 Speaker 1: picked her, You chose her to work with you, and 408 00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:29,760 Speaker 1: she chose me. That Mary Maps, whose name obviously because 409 00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:32,960 Speaker 1: she was a producer on air person her name before 410 00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:36,120 Speaker 1: this happened, was not that well known. But Mary Maps 411 00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:41,360 Speaker 1: was by not just by majority opinion, by consensus, almost unanimously, 412 00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:49,040 Speaker 1: one of the great television investigated news reporters producers of 413 00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:54,320 Speaker 1: her time. Uh she not alone, but as a team 414 00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:57,639 Speaker 1: operation we broke the opera grape story. She was a 415 00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:03,280 Speaker 1: story hunter, a story breaker, great storyteller in the sense 416 00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:08,480 Speaker 1: don't television together. So yes, I had worked with her before, 417 00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:11,600 Speaker 1: and answer your question, I picked her, but she also 418 00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:15,199 Speaker 1: picked me. Mary didn't want to work with everybody that 419 00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:17,679 Speaker 1: she was good enough and had a good enough reputation 420 00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:20,600 Speaker 1: that she pretty much shows if you came to and 421 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:22,560 Speaker 1: said work with ex and she didn't want to work 422 00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:25,200 Speaker 1: with actually just say thank you very much. And because 423 00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:27,880 Speaker 1: of a record, she could make that stick. We're gonna 424 00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:32,120 Speaker 1: take some questions, but uh, in the film a lot 425 00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:35,119 Speaker 1: of that, and people lose their job mapes of course. Uh. 426 00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:38,680 Speaker 1: And everyone who knows her story knows she never works again. 427 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:46,000 Speaker 1: And in the news industry, um, you yourself are told, asked, suggested, 428 00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:47,840 Speaker 1: you know whatever you want to call it, to resign 429 00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:52,680 Speaker 1: from your job. And yet there are people today who 430 00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:58,919 Speaker 1: I think have done certainly I'm not gonna say guilty, 431 00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:03,040 Speaker 1: But there are people to day who are in broadcast 432 00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:09,560 Speaker 1: news who have uh been associated with things that are 433 00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:14,959 Speaker 1: as bad, if not far worse in terms of fostering 434 00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:20,280 Speaker 1: doubts about their common sense or even journalistic integrity, who 435 00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:23,439 Speaker 1: have held on to their jobs. What do you think 436 00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:26,600 Speaker 1: has changed in terms of television news that that happened. 437 00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:30,080 Speaker 1: I don't have the answer to that question. I will 438 00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:33,760 Speaker 1: say that with our story, look, we made some mistakes, 439 00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:35,920 Speaker 1: and if we had it to do over again, when 440 00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:39,760 Speaker 1: I do some things differently, of course, but generalism is 441 00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:43,240 Speaker 1: not a precise science. I did it at the time 442 00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:46,800 Speaker 1: what I thought was journalistically an ethical thing to do. 443 00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:51,600 Speaker 1: And this is a salient point. Our story was was true, 444 00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:57,439 Speaker 1: you can argue, and this is a successful attack was launched. 445 00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:01,320 Speaker 1: Owners they couldn't attack the facts. They couldn't attacked the 446 00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:04,880 Speaker 1: truth of the story, so they attacked the process by 447 00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:09,360 Speaker 1: which we arrived at the truth. Was the process flawed? Yes? 448 00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:11,600 Speaker 1: It was flawed? Was it flawed more than it should 449 00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:15,200 Speaker 1: have been? Yes? Am I responsible for some of that? Yes? 450 00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:18,320 Speaker 1: And I you may want say I'm responsible all But 451 00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:23,520 Speaker 1: this is the point. The story was true. It was true, 452 00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:27,879 Speaker 1: then it's true. Now the process was flawed. That's a 453 00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:31,959 Speaker 1: different thing than a story is proven to be wrong. 454 00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:35,520 Speaker 1: That they didn't. You don't get to the truth now 455 00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:39,240 Speaker 1: as to why we suffered as we did, and h 456 00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:43,240 Speaker 1: raps I should use another burb rather than suffered. But nonetheless, 457 00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:49,320 Speaker 1: whereas other people who do stories that are untrue don't 458 00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:51,680 Speaker 1: suffer the same faith. I don't have the full answer. 459 00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:56,920 Speaker 1: I will say this that Viacom was at a particular 460 00:27:57,040 --> 00:28:02,240 Speaker 1: point where they when this story broke, preceding it, preceding it, 461 00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:07,880 Speaker 1: during it, and afterward, they were in negotiation is their lobbyists. 462 00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:11,679 Speaker 1: Their lobbyists were trying to get all kinds of things 463 00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:14,960 Speaker 1: passed in Washington put into effect in Washington that would 464 00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:19,159 Speaker 1: result in tremendous profits for Viacom. Now, one of the 465 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:21,919 Speaker 1: things I hope people take away from this film because 466 00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:25,679 Speaker 1: it's so important, is the point what has changed in 467 00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:33,440 Speaker 1: journalism is the involvement with large corporate power being excused 468 00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:37,320 Speaker 1: my phrase, if you must, being in bed with big 469 00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:40,280 Speaker 1: government in Washington, whether that governments in the hands of 470 00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:46,880 Speaker 1: Republicans or Democrats. And given time now, having said earlier 471 00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:48,880 Speaker 1: in our discussion, there was the time when there was 472 00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:51,640 Speaker 1: a firewall between the corporation. But what was revealed in 473 00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:56,720 Speaker 1: this case was when the White House and powers in 474 00:28:56,760 --> 00:29:01,600 Speaker 1: the Republican Party began to scream about the story. They said, 475 00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:03,920 Speaker 1: you know, rather in his crowd have made some mistakes 476 00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:08,400 Speaker 1: and started demanding that we retract the story, which, by 477 00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:11,040 Speaker 1: the way, the story was never retracted. We apologize for 478 00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:13,360 Speaker 1: the documents, but didn't retract the story. But at any rate, 479 00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:19,560 Speaker 1: the amount of influence that the lobbyists had with the corporation, 480 00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:23,760 Speaker 1: which in turn influencing news division, is really stunning and 481 00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:27,760 Speaker 1: that has changed. And we talked about the corporatization and 482 00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:32,000 Speaker 1: politicalization of news today. See what this film truth is 483 00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:36,120 Speaker 1: about it base It's less about me or Mary Maybes 484 00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:39,440 Speaker 1: or even former President Georgia which what is about it 485 00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:44,040 Speaker 1: at base is what's happened to the news, why it's happened, 486 00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:48,120 Speaker 1: how it's happened, and why you should care Before we 487 00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:51,360 Speaker 1: take a question. In my lifetime, what I've seen this 488 00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:54,920 Speaker 1: is an opinion and an assessment. You know, our country 489 00:29:55,080 --> 00:30:01,800 Speaker 1: is this machine that that where democracy and capitalism interact 490 00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:06,640 Speaker 1: and as and in my lifetime, what we've seen is, uh, 491 00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:09,680 Speaker 1: we were throwing out the democracy in order to accommodate 492 00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:13,720 Speaker 1: capitalism and maintain standard of living in our political and 493 00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:16,640 Speaker 1: military power around the world. And but what I want 494 00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:18,640 Speaker 1: to ask you is when you go through your career 495 00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:24,160 Speaker 1: and you think about Vietnam and then Watergate and then 496 00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:28,600 Speaker 1: Iran Contra. Now I have my own answer to this question, 497 00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:32,080 Speaker 1: but I want to hear yours. Iran Contra and then 498 00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:37,880 Speaker 1: Upo Grabe and then nine eleven and our response to 499 00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:40,000 Speaker 1: nine eleven and what we've done and not done over 500 00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:42,920 Speaker 1: in the Middle East. Which one in your lifetime has 501 00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:47,520 Speaker 1: made you more worried for the country. What a good question, 502 00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:55,240 Speaker 1: maybe because it's so recent, but I'd say nine eleven. 503 00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:59,920 Speaker 1: Don't misunderstand me. I was obviously far younger when I 504 00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:03,480 Speaker 1: covered the early part of the civil rights movement and 505 00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:07,040 Speaker 1: Dr Martin Ruth King. That was my daily, weekend, week 506 00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:10,720 Speaker 1: out job that changed me as a person and as 507 00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:15,440 Speaker 1: a pro in in really fundamental ways. That's a long 508 00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:17,760 Speaker 1: time ago. And the reason I say with nine eleven, 509 00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:23,720 Speaker 1: I think by any objective standard, the decision to go 510 00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:27,360 Speaker 1: into Iraq, which flowed out of what happened of nine 511 00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:31,680 Speaker 1: eleven decisions are going to rack, was a a a 512 00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:42,320 Speaker 1: strategic blunder of historic proportions which continues to resonate, which 513 00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:45,440 Speaker 1: continues to resonate to this day. So and answer your question, 514 00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:48,560 Speaker 1: which one of those stories were causes me to worry 515 00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:51,400 Speaker 1: the most about the country, But I want to emphasize it. 516 00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:56,360 Speaker 1: I'm an optimist by experience and by nature, and we'll 517 00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:59,760 Speaker 1: get through this period. And I do think it's almost 518 00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:03,680 Speaker 1: say so, but it's just place only because I really 519 00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:06,080 Speaker 1: believe it that I think the best days of the 520 00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:09,040 Speaker 1: country can be and may very well be ahead of us. 521 00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:12,560 Speaker 1: But this is a very difficult time because we as 522 00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:18,200 Speaker 1: a people, as a society, through our government, have made 523 00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:23,200 Speaker 1: some some very serious mistakes over the last decade and 524 00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:26,040 Speaker 1: a half plus. Um, we're gonna take something, We're gonna 525 00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:29,720 Speaker 1: go around with some mike's in this section here got 526 00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:34,200 Speaker 1: a question, give us your question, shouted out Mr. Rather, 527 00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:36,120 Speaker 1: do you think the reason why you and your team 528 00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:39,600 Speaker 1: got in such hot water for exposing George W. Bush's 529 00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:42,840 Speaker 1: less than honorable service reactor with the Air National Guard 530 00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:46,200 Speaker 1: was because the Bush family used their political power to 531 00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:49,640 Speaker 1: prevent this from being exposed. And before I give over 532 00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:52,160 Speaker 1: the mike, I just want to point out that President 533 00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:55,960 Speaker 1: Richard once President Richard Nixon once said I would have 534 00:32:56,040 --> 00:33:03,040 Speaker 1: made a very good Popeye. Well, the two main as 535 00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:09,240 Speaker 1: to the first part of that, uh that emphasizing the film. 536 00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:14,280 Speaker 1: Truth isn't all about who did what to whom, who 537 00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:17,240 Speaker 1: said what to whom, what mistakes were made. But in 538 00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:21,480 Speaker 1: so far as it is about that, the two most 539 00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:26,840 Speaker 1: important things are the facts. Everybody is intended entitled to 540 00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:30,040 Speaker 1: their own opinion, but they're not entitled to their own facts. 541 00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:36,560 Speaker 1: Fact one, it's a fact that a younger George W. Bush, 542 00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:40,640 Speaker 1: his father used his political influence to get the younger 543 00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:44,760 Speaker 1: Bush into the so called Champagne Unit of the Air 544 00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:51,760 Speaker 1: National Guard as a way of ensuring that. But that's 545 00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:55,400 Speaker 1: fact one. Fact two that after he got in this 546 00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:59,280 Speaker 1: special unit of the Air National Garden. He did at 547 00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:02,840 Speaker 1: least reason well, perhaps quite well as a pilot for 548 00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:07,120 Speaker 1: a while, but then he disappeared for a year. Nobody 549 00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:13,080 Speaker 1: disappears from the U. S Military for a year without reporting. Now, 550 00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:18,759 Speaker 1: those two things are are are facts? And by exposing 551 00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:23,440 Speaker 1: those facts, digging down getting those facts, what's your facts? 552 00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:26,680 Speaker 1: Whatever you think of the documents plus minus or don't know, 553 00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:30,480 Speaker 1: those are those are the things that got us in trouble. 554 00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:35,879 Speaker 1: Where the those who found the facts inconvenient, to say 555 00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:38,800 Speaker 1: the least for idiological, political, or some of the reason. 556 00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:42,680 Speaker 1: They couldn't attack us on the facts, they attacked us 557 00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:45,320 Speaker 1: on the process by which we arrived at the truth. 558 00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:49,880 Speaker 1: And they succeeded in those attacks. They're right there with 559 00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:54,800 Speaker 1: hand up, thank you a day, And I wanted to 560 00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:57,239 Speaker 1: ask you a question about looking into the future a 561 00:34:57,239 --> 00:35:01,040 Speaker 1: little bit. And with the network news ray eatings dropping 562 00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:06,480 Speaker 1: every day, with the audience getting older, um, and with 563 00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:10,239 Speaker 1: the advent of immediate social media news, where you know, 564 00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:12,719 Speaker 1: I could use this thing in my hand to get 565 00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:14,839 Speaker 1: all the news, and uh, I don't need to wait 566 00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:17,400 Speaker 1: till five thirty to find out what happened that day 567 00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:20,120 Speaker 1: because it's old news. Then what do you see as 568 00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:25,200 Speaker 1: the future of where you came from and where it's 569 00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:29,320 Speaker 1: going to go. Well, I'm gonna try to answer the question. 570 00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:31,680 Speaker 1: But when we talk about the future, I learned a 571 00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:35,680 Speaker 1: long time ago that he who lose by the crystal 572 00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:39,440 Speaker 1: ball learns to eat a lot of broken glass. And 573 00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:43,960 Speaker 1: I've eaten more than my share. But the question is good, naturally, 574 00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:48,120 Speaker 1: because I have a passion for reporting and journalism. I 575 00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:51,520 Speaker 1: think a lot about it. This much, we know that 576 00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:55,800 Speaker 1: the Internet, if it isn't already, I think the Internet 577 00:35:55,840 --> 00:36:00,360 Speaker 1: in general already is the dominant place where most people 578 00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:05,120 Speaker 1: get most of the news first. Now I've lived long 579 00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:07,719 Speaker 1: enough to live through the print era, of the radio era, 580 00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:13,320 Speaker 1: the television era, and moving forward, the Internet will become 581 00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:16,440 Speaker 1: if it isn't already dominant, it will be dominant and 582 00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:20,800 Speaker 1: be completely dominant. But that doesn't mean that television news, 583 00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:22,960 Speaker 1: as pretty much as we know it, is going to 584 00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:29,720 Speaker 1: completely disappear anymore than radio news disappeared when television came along. 585 00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:33,600 Speaker 1: To answer your question, we're into the digital era now 586 00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:37,560 Speaker 1: and the the essential thing, and I don't need to 587 00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:40,640 Speaker 1: be preachy about this, but as citizens, as consumers of news, 588 00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:45,600 Speaker 1: I think you should think about right now, as the 589 00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:50,960 Speaker 1: television era fades and the internet era begins to dominate, 590 00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:56,960 Speaker 1: there's been a tremendous shrinking in two really important areas. 591 00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:01,279 Speaker 1: One is first class international reporting, what we used to 592 00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:06,160 Speaker 1: call foreign news. The amount of quality foreign news reporting 593 00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:10,759 Speaker 1: has swunk, I think, dangerously low. The other is deep 594 00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:15,319 Speaker 1: digging investigative reporting that the market for it, if you will, 595 00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:18,319 Speaker 1: has sunk. And here's the reason. Those are two of 596 00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:23,480 Speaker 1: the most expensive forms of journalism, covering international news and 597 00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:29,319 Speaker 1: doing investigative reports. And because one because they're expensive, it 598 00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:31,160 Speaker 1: takes a lot of money to do them, and too, 599 00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:37,839 Speaker 1: particularly the second investigative reporting causes controversy. Uh No one 600 00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:40,640 Speaker 1: has come up with a new business model, if you will, 601 00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:48,359 Speaker 1: that will only sustain, basis, pay for finance the kind 602 00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:52,520 Speaker 1: of international reporting and investigative reporting we had not long ago. 603 00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:56,160 Speaker 1: So I think that's something to watch looking forward. How 604 00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:58,279 Speaker 1: do we come up with the business model? Having said, 605 00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:01,080 Speaker 1: I'm an optimist, I think somebody will come up with 606 00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:04,520 Speaker 1: that business model, but up to including now, they haven't. 607 00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:07,200 Speaker 1: And I do think you will continue to see declining 608 00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:11,200 Speaker 1: audiences for television, you know, looking at the television said 609 00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:14,880 Speaker 1: increasing audiences for internet use, Um, we have time for 610 00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:16,640 Speaker 1: just a couple more kers of our time. We're gonna 611 00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:19,319 Speaker 1: go to this corner over here, you sir, I think, well, 612 00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:22,040 Speaker 1: one of the most interesting things about the film Truth 613 00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:26,520 Speaker 1: was that for the people that are my age or older, 614 00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:30,440 Speaker 1: the buzz around is that we all thought we knew 615 00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:33,320 Speaker 1: that story. When you just sort of thought you knew 616 00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:35,560 Speaker 1: that area, you lived through it and you heard the story, 617 00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:38,240 Speaker 1: and it's you watched the movie is simply not true. 618 00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:42,719 Speaker 1: So I think, Uh, I don't know how I would 619 00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:47,799 Speaker 1: feel to sort of have my career curtailed and sort 620 00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:49,879 Speaker 1: of not have my story told. But thank god it's 621 00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:53,600 Speaker 1: been told. But the thing, um, I don't understand is 622 00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:57,400 Speaker 1: how how things keep getting the story keeps getting co opted. 623 00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:02,080 Speaker 1: When you say they uh couldn't attack you on the 624 00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:04,600 Speaker 1: facts that they attacked on the process, who are they 625 00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:08,080 Speaker 1: because that they keeps getting the story and they keep 626 00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:11,239 Speaker 1: doing like, Okay, let's that's a fair question. The emails 627 00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:14,000 Speaker 1: and that's a fair question. And the day to which 628 00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:18,600 Speaker 1: I refer are those uh people, the people in the 629 00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:23,320 Speaker 1: White House, people in the Republican Party. But not confined 630 00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:25,800 Speaker 1: to the Republican Party. There plenty of people who found 631 00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:29,399 Speaker 1: fault with us, who were non Repolican party, those who 632 00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:37,840 Speaker 1: see themselves as invested politically, ideologically, or otherwise in a 633 00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:42,200 Speaker 1: one political direction. You call it conservative, you want a 634 00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:49,680 Speaker 1: reactionary or whatever. Uh, and and their corporate allies. Those 635 00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:53,279 Speaker 1: are the day, hope that's grammatically correct. Those are the 636 00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:57,640 Speaker 1: day to which you refer that the same people who 637 00:39:57,760 --> 00:40:00,479 Speaker 1: and you say, well, who are these people? Are people 638 00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:02,040 Speaker 1: who were in the White House at the time the 639 00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:06,000 Speaker 1: story broke, People who were who were in the positions 640 00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:09,799 Speaker 1: of power in the in the Congress at that time. Uh. 641 00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:14,440 Speaker 1: The people who were at in die Com at that 642 00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:17,160 Speaker 1: time and are still there, some in the upper reaches 643 00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:19,520 Speaker 1: of CBS at the same time. And I want to 644 00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:22,520 Speaker 1: make it clear because I think it needs to be 645 00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:27,440 Speaker 1: emphasized for fairness. We made mistakes and we need to 646 00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:33,600 Speaker 1: be accountable for those mistakes. But I emphasized again holdless 647 00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:37,399 Speaker 1: responsible for what we did that we shouldn't have done, 648 00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:39,920 Speaker 1: and what we didn't do that we should have done, 649 00:40:40,719 --> 00:40:45,000 Speaker 1: but recognized that flawed as it was, we got to 650 00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:49,120 Speaker 1: some basic truths. We got to some facts, and that 651 00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:53,960 Speaker 1: they that are referred to is it whomever wherever found 652 00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:59,280 Speaker 1: those facts? Found that truth inconvenient to say the least, 653 00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:04,480 Speaker 1: are harmful to their interests, political or otherwise. They are 654 00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:06,920 Speaker 1: the ones who attack us, and as a matter of fact, 655 00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:10,279 Speaker 1: or in the process of undercutting the movie to this day, 656 00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:12,920 Speaker 1: as much as they can possibly do. I have no 657 00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:16,359 Speaker 1: illusions about the film truth. Um, but one thing. This 658 00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:20,040 Speaker 1: film has no dragons, no robots, and no sex. So 659 00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:27,560 Speaker 1: it's a lot of drinking in this film. Uh. But 660 00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:31,640 Speaker 1: my you know, my hope is uh that it will 661 00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:37,680 Speaker 1: broaden a new conversation however one feels about what we 662 00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:40,480 Speaker 1: did or didn't do. Every one feels about me or 663 00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:43,600 Speaker 1: CBS News or my team of people, whatever I would 664 00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:49,239 Speaker 1: it'll spark a new and broader discussion about the importance 665 00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:55,080 Speaker 1: of a free and independent, fiercely independent when necessary press 666 00:41:55,560 --> 00:42:02,400 Speaker 1: as part of the red beating heart of democracy and freedom. 667 00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:06,360 Speaker 1: I have a question for you. You sued CBS and 668 00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:11,359 Speaker 1: we went on a long uh campaign there on that litigation, which, 669 00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:13,480 Speaker 1: if I read the facts correctly, you spent a lot 670 00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:16,680 Speaker 1: of money invested a lot of money in that. Similarly, 671 00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:19,359 Speaker 1: did you ever think about getting private investigators and people 672 00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:21,920 Speaker 1: to find out to answer your questions of what happened 673 00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:27,120 Speaker 1: the answer is yes. One. When in the middle of 674 00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:34,560 Speaker 1: the maelstrom that developed in the wake of our story, uh, 675 00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:38,040 Speaker 1: when the president of CBS News, I think, on the 676 00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:42,080 Speaker 1: direction of the people in the corporate side, said stop 677 00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:44,520 Speaker 1: looking to the story and orders we were continuing to 678 00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:47,480 Speaker 1: investigate the story, saying well, these people are asking questions, 679 00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:50,520 Speaker 1: we're gonna find out, We're gonna find out more. He said, 680 00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:53,320 Speaker 1: cease and desist. We're no longer going to work on 681 00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:57,160 Speaker 1: this story. Cut it off now. At that point, I 682 00:42:57,200 --> 00:43:02,279 Speaker 1: said to the president of CBS News, man named Andrew Heyward, Uh, well, 683 00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:04,120 Speaker 1: if you're not going to do it, then I'm going 684 00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:07,399 Speaker 1: to take money out of my own pocket and look 685 00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:11,120 Speaker 1: into investigation. He said, well, Dan, you know, don't do that. 686 00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:13,680 Speaker 1: I'm not good what he said. He said, don't do that. 687 00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:15,880 Speaker 1: Then he came to me and said, well, look, the 688 00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:20,319 Speaker 1: corporation is going to hire some outside investigators to look 689 00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:24,040 Speaker 1: into this case. And they did that for a little while, 690 00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:27,080 Speaker 1: didn't turn out very much, turn up very much, no surprise, 691 00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:28,880 Speaker 1: and they cut it off. Because that's why I was 692 00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:32,800 Speaker 1: still at CBS News. Now, after I left CBS News 693 00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:35,440 Speaker 1: and formed my own production company called News and Guts 694 00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:38,160 Speaker 1: and you know, like a year later, more than a 695 00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:41,080 Speaker 1: year later, the following thing dawned on me. And I'm 696 00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:43,840 Speaker 1: sorry to be lengthy here, and I apologize in advanced 697 00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:46,759 Speaker 1: but it may be important to understand I didn't want 698 00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:49,760 Speaker 1: to sue CBS. I had moved on. I said, okay, 699 00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:53,920 Speaker 1: I would rather have gone out on the Watergate story, 700 00:43:54,880 --> 00:43:57,800 Speaker 1: the Kennedy assassination, or the civil rights but this is 701 00:43:57,880 --> 00:44:02,600 Speaker 1: where life works. But CBS, and I was slow. I 702 00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:04,680 Speaker 1: can be dumb as a fence post about a lot 703 00:44:04,719 --> 00:44:08,399 Speaker 1: of things, and I was dumb about this. That they 704 00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:12,360 Speaker 1: had begun to erase me from their history, which is 705 00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:15,680 Speaker 1: to say little like the Russians used to do when 706 00:44:15,719 --> 00:44:19,600 Speaker 1: they had a change of in the party apparatus. They 707 00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:23,560 Speaker 1: would brush brush people out of photographs. That it was 708 00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:28,040 Speaker 1: as if I had never been there. Now, whatever mistakes 709 00:44:28,040 --> 00:44:30,719 Speaker 1: I made, and Evan said, I made plenty of, what 710 00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:34,399 Speaker 1: are imperfections I have? You know you are what your 711 00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:37,440 Speaker 1: record is. And I had a record at CBS, and 712 00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:40,399 Speaker 1: I was rightly, wrongly proud of that record and still am. 713 00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:43,920 Speaker 1: And when I realized that they were trying to erase 714 00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:47,520 Speaker 1: me out of that record, no reference any time they 715 00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:50,880 Speaker 1: do something on the Kennedy assassination is as if I 716 00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:53,960 Speaker 1: wasn't there at that point. I said, then you're in 717 00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:58,840 Speaker 1: nicasic classic fight or flight situation. You either have to 718 00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:02,839 Speaker 1: fight them or you're gonna You're gonna just disappear. Now. 719 00:45:03,040 --> 00:45:06,880 Speaker 1: I lost the lawsuit. They won, They won on appeal, 720 00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:09,360 Speaker 1: they didn't win on the facts of the case. We 721 00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:11,920 Speaker 1: wanted to take the case to jury. Feel scored. We 722 00:45:12,040 --> 00:45:15,239 Speaker 1: lost the case. But some things are worth fighting for 723 00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:19,440 Speaker 1: even if you lose. And I was told going into 724 00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:21,799 Speaker 1: the lawsuit, then you can't take on a power like 725 00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:26,359 Speaker 1: by a common CPS. Yes, you've made fairly good money 726 00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:29,000 Speaker 1: over your time, but these people have deep pockets, and 727 00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:33,520 Speaker 1: besides that, there's this next deductible yours is not. But 728 00:45:33,719 --> 00:45:36,719 Speaker 1: I did say to myself, no, you know, I see 729 00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:39,000 Speaker 1: myself as a fighter when they have to feed, and 730 00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:41,799 Speaker 1: I'd rather go down fighting than just quietly sort of 731 00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:44,719 Speaker 1: slink off and have them erase the whole record while 732 00:45:44,719 --> 00:45:52,080 Speaker 1: I was there. This is Alec Baldwin. This conversation was 733 00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:56,480 Speaker 1: recorded at the Hampton's International Film Festival. You were listening 734 00:45:56,800 --> 00:46:05,080 Speaker 1: to here's the thing the cans to to a d