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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Four people, four souls lost

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Speaker 1: in connection with the Jeffrey Epstein sex trafficking case. Virginia Geoffrey,

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Speaker 1: one of them her body just found. Does it never end?

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Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to

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Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. In the last days,

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Speaker 1: we learned Epstein's hints person his so called madam. That's

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Speaker 1: certainly putting perfume on the pig. Elaine Maxwell, the jailed

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Speaker 1: Epstein accomplice, is appealing her conviction all the way to

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Speaker 1: the US Supreme Court. It never ends, and yes you're

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Speaker 1: paying for it. Again. This is Crime Stories. I want

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Speaker 1: to thank you for being with us on our Friday

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Speaker 1: night special. Tonight we take a look how can Eulaane

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Speaker 1: Maxwell fix her mouth to appeal to the US Supreme Court?

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Speaker 1: And again on our dime. Remember Maxwell actually went. I

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Speaker 1: visited the scene to play grounds in New York and

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Speaker 1: many urban areas. The public playgrounds are fenced in chainlink.

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Speaker 1: They're usually asphalt like you know, basketball court, outdoor basketball court,

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Speaker 1: and you can pull up in her case in a

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Speaker 1: limo beside the playground and she would actually spot girls

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Speaker 1: at recess on the playground such as it is to

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Speaker 1: lure them, to entrap them into becoming sex slaves for

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Speaker 1: her love Jeffrey Epstein. And now she's appealing her conviction

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Speaker 1: all the way to the US Supreme Court. What happened?

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Speaker 1: What do we know about what was proven against Elaine Maxwell? Now,

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Speaker 1: to crime online dot COM's Levi Paige Levi, we know

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Speaker 1: what Epstein did about much of the molestation of young girls.

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Speaker 1: He committed and got away with it because he was rich.

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Speaker 1: But what about the women who enabled him? Who is

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Speaker 1: Elaine Maxwell?

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Speaker 2: Jallaine Maxwell. Nancy is a woman who is from the UK.

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Speaker 2: Her father is very rich and powerful from there, she

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Speaker 2: inherited a lot of money After his death, she came

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Speaker 2: to the United States, New York City, and she was

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Speaker 2: a socialite. She hung out with Ivanka Trump. She met

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Speaker 2: Jeffrey Epstein, would hang around with him, and it is

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Speaker 2: alleged she would find underage girls under eighteen tell them that, Hey,

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Speaker 2: I have a friend. His name is Jeffrey Epstein. He

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Speaker 2: needs a masseuse, will pay you to come give him

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Speaker 2: a massage. It wasn't a massage. They were raped. And

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Speaker 2: she is the woman that allegedly entrapped these young women

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Speaker 2: in his evil plot.

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Speaker 1: Take a listen now to Netflix Filthy Rich.

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Speaker 3: How did you meet mister Revski like two years ago

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Speaker 3: or so?

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Speaker 4: About two years ago?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, when you first.

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Speaker 4: Met him, Yeah, you were seventeen. Then what is it

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Speaker 4: that you were told you would have to do?

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Speaker 1: Give him a massage? Yeah, well that's some massage that

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Speaker 1: ended up in molesting young girls. To actually Willcott a

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Speaker 1: judge and trial lawyer, court TV anchor, you're hearing one

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Speaker 1: Epstein victims speaking to law enforcement. But there were multiple

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Speaker 1: young girls that have the same story. I mean, how

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Speaker 1: likely is it that multiple young girls have the same story,

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Speaker 1: girls that are separated in time and space and don't

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Speaker 1: know each other.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, it's not at all likely. There's so many different

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Speaker 6: pieces aspects of this that really are bothersome to me,

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Speaker 6: and I don't understand all of these girls do have

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Speaker 6: the same story. If you have an adult that's assisting,

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Speaker 6: that's getting, that's soliciting, that adult should have been charged

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Speaker 6: with child and endangerment, accessories, soliciting any of those things.

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Speaker 6: The other thing, though, is he was smart in a criminal,

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Speaker 6: disgusting way that he would use miners to try to

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Speaker 6: get other girls.

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Speaker 1: Well, apparently, according to reports, he didn't just use miners

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Speaker 1: to recruit their friends for underage sex. He used an accomplished,

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Speaker 1: educated woman, Gillan Maxwell. Take a listen to this.

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Speaker 4: In two thousand and five, the parent to a young

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Speaker 4: girl called the police station.

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Speaker 7: Well, Hi, how are you.

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Speaker 8: I'm good.

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Speaker 9: I'm returning to a call.

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Speaker 7: I I apologize.

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Speaker 10: I don't know exactly what four it's okay.

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Speaker 11: It was an incident that occurred maybe like three three

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Speaker 11: and a half.

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Speaker 5: Weeks ago with one of my stepdaughters.

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Speaker 1: One day at cool guys would a.

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Speaker 7: Fight and she had over three hundred dollars on.

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Speaker 2: Her So after asking on asking on, asking.

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Speaker 10: Out what was going on, found out that ended.

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Speaker 5: Up being that they went upon beach to a gentleman's

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Speaker 5: house and they start off by giving the sentiment a

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Speaker 5: massage and he pays them if he likes them, and

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Speaker 5: he thinks that they're pretty enough to keep some eys.

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Speaker 12: To do other things.

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Speaker 13: Okay, I was if I said.

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Speaker 7: There was an investigation or if you guys had any world, I.

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Speaker 3: Think, well, this is the first hearing of it.

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Speaker 9: Okay, what I will need is more information. Would your

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Speaker 9: steptor would be willing to come in to provide me

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Speaker 9: with the statement.

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Speaker 1: This is a two thousand and five recorded conversation with

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Speaker 1: a police officer where Officer Pagan returns a call to

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Speaker 1: a grown woman making a complaint two thousand and five

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Speaker 1: billionaire Jeffrey Epstein recruiting young girls from school. From school,

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Speaker 1: She says her stepdaughter has this huge wad of money,

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Speaker 1: and that the stepdaughter finally admits to her she went

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Speaker 1: to this rich guy's house. Epstein gave him a massage

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Speaker 1: and then it escalated to other things. The woman who

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Speaker 1: allegedly made his underage sex that's called statutory rape possible.

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Speaker 1: A jet setter millionaire in her own right, Gillan Maxwell,

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Speaker 1: who apparently in the Last Days brags it comes out

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Speaker 1: quote look for Jeffrey's type and I bring him home.

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Speaker 1: This is according to Prince Andrew of Britain's cousin tells

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Speaker 1: how Gillan Maxwell brags that she recruited young underage girls

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Speaker 1: for Epstein from trailer parks and that she Gillan Maxwell

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Speaker 1: intent on marrying Jeffrey Epstein. She would go out and

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Speaker 1: recruit young girls to be statutory raped by a billionaire,

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Speaker 1: and why in the world would she want to marry

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Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein. Take a listen to Jeffrey Epstein himself on Netflix.

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Speaker 4: Have you ever been convicted of a crime?

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Speaker 14: Yes?

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Speaker 4: What was the crime of which you were convicted? Two counts?

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Speaker 15: One soliciting prostitution and procuring a minor for prostitution?

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Speaker 4: Did you in fact commit those acts? I'm going to

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Speaker 4: invokee my fifth Amendment? Right, How many times have you

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Speaker 4: solicited a miner for prostitution? Same answer? How many times

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Speaker 4: have you solicited a miner for prostitution in the state

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Speaker 4: of Florida? The same answer? Have you ever solicited a

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Speaker 4: miner for prostitution of the Virgin Islands? Same answer? That

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Speaker 4: is the you are invoting your fifth Amendment? Yes, right, yes,

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Speaker 4: missus skill. Have you ever solicited for prostitution in New York?

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Speaker 4: Same answer? Have you ever soled solicited for prostitution in

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Speaker 4: New Mexico? Same answer? Have you ever solicited for prostitution

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Speaker 4: in Paris? Same answer? Have you ever solicited a miner

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Speaker 4: for prostitution anywhere? At any time? I'm going to certainly

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Speaker 4: Righte's taking you out here. We're going to go through everything.

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Speaker 4: So you are terminating the deposition. If it is time

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Speaker 4: for the recess of the deposition.

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Speaker 1: As if he had not solicited prostitution with a minor

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Speaker 1: a child in all of those places in New York, Paris, London,

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Speaker 1: the Island and the Caribbean, he would have said, no,

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Speaker 1: I haven't. If someone came up and said, hey, are

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Speaker 1: you guilty of soliciting prostitution with the miner, and I'm like,

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Speaker 1: I would say no, absolutely not. Instead he had votes

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Speaker 1: his right to the Fifth Amendment, your right to remain silent.

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Speaker 1: This is after already pleading guilty to prostitution with a

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Speaker 1: miner in Florida, where he got a slap on the wrist.

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Speaker 1: But the billionaire pedophile Jeffrey Epstein is one issue. Another

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Speaker 1: can of worms is the socialite millionaire in her own right,

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Speaker 1: Gillan Maxwell, who got the girls for him to doctor

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Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall. Did you hear where a cousin of Prince

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Speaker 1: Andrew We know it now to be? Christina Oxenburg talked

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Speaker 1: about how Gillen Maxwell bragged that she would procure, as

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Speaker 1: she said, procure underage girls for Epstein and very often

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Speaker 1: would focus on trailer parks to find his victims. Did

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Speaker 1: you hear that? It makes me so mad I wanted

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Speaker 1: she and Nail in half.

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Speaker 16: Okay, Nancy. I thought about the pattern of of child

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Speaker 16: sex crimes and how they're similar, whether it's Michael Jackson

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Speaker 16: or we have Harvey Weinstein, or we have Jeffrey Epstein.

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Speaker 16: So Gilan Maxwell found women who were financially vulnerable. Michael

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Speaker 16: Jackson found children from poor families. Harvey Weinstein found women

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Speaker 16: who were wanting a role in a movie script. They

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Speaker 16: all entice them and offer something big, like for a

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Speaker 16: thirteen or fourteen year old, two or three hundred dollars

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Speaker 16: for a massage. I mean that's everything. You could go

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Speaker 16: buy a purse, you go buy a pair of shoes.

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Speaker 16: Michael Jackson built like a whole scene park to lore children.

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Speaker 16: Weinstein offered them these huge movie roles. You can see

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Speaker 16: the pattern is the same from perpetrator to perpetrator. They

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Speaker 16: always find victims that are at the fringe of society

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Speaker 16: and they think won't tell on them. You know, everybody's

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Speaker 16: surprised that a woman like Gilan Maxwell would procure these

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Speaker 16: girls and then want to marry Jeffrey Epstein. But it

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Speaker 16: is not uncommon for women to make crimes against children

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Speaker 16: in concert with the man they love.

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Speaker 6: Look at children who are molested.

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Speaker 16: By stepfathers, and the mothers stand by and do nothing,

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Speaker 16: or they go and they find rape victims for their

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Speaker 16: husbands or their partners. Women do act in concert with

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Speaker 16: men all the time. In this case, it's just more

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Speaker 16: dramatic because there is so much money. I do practice

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Speaker 16: in Beverly Hills where there's a lot of money, and

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Speaker 16: with there's a lot of money, there's a lot of

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Speaker 16: cover ups.

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Speaker 1: The woman who made it possible for him to locate

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Speaker 1: and recruit little girls to rape and molest and pay

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Speaker 1: off and keep silent. Her name is Glaine Maxwell. Take

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Speaker 1: a listen now to Jeffrey Epstein speaking on the Netflix

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Speaker 1: special Filthy Rich emphasis on.

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Speaker 17: Let's talk about Jingo one and two. Virginia Roberts. Do

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Speaker 17: you know Virginia Roberts? So she's again.

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Speaker 1: Who Virginia Roberts?

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Speaker 4: Can you spell it.

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Speaker 1: Common spelling Virginia.

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Speaker 4: Like the states? Can you spell it? Will you please? Roberts?

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Speaker 4: How's what's the last name?

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Speaker 17: How's the spelling.

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Speaker 1: R O B E R T S.

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Speaker 4: I believe isn't it true that you.

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Speaker 17: And Glenn Maxwell celebrated her sixteenth birthday with her and

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Speaker 17: had sex with her on that.

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Speaker 15: Day farm compound, confusing an argument in the passing.

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Speaker 17: I'd like to answer that question, but today I'm gonna

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Speaker 17: have to assert my sixth Amendment rights, my fifth Amendment rights.

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Speaker 17: Is it true that you forced Virginia Roberts to have

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Speaker 17: sex with numerous friends of yours?

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Speaker 18: An a hole?

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Speaker 1: Can you spell Virginia?

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Speaker 8: No?

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Speaker 1: Spell it? No spell it, he says to opposing counsel,

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Speaker 1: and the last name Roberts. Spell it? What a jackass? Well,

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Speaker 1: he invoked the wrong amendment. He's sixth, but he meant fifth.

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Speaker 1: He corrected himself. But he's making co counsel opposing counsel

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Speaker 1: spell the name of one of his alleged victims. I

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Speaker 1: want you to listen to what this girl, Virginia Roberts says. Listen.

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Speaker 11: I first met Prince Andrew March tenth, two thousand and

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Speaker 11: one in London at Gillan's townhouse.

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Speaker 1: He knocked on the door.

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Speaker 11: He came inside Gilen's townhouse, and we're sitting there having tea.

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Speaker 11: Ellen has his favorite guessing game that she does. She

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Speaker 11: goes Prince Andrew, how well do you think Virginia's and

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Speaker 11: he said seventeen and She's like, oh, you're right, and

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Speaker 11: you know they made a little joke about it. It's like, oh,

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Speaker 11: my daughters aren't far from your age.

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Speaker 8: You know.

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Speaker 1: My daughter's a little bit younger than you.

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Speaker 11: We went out for the night club Tramp in London

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Speaker 11: and he dances and he's profusely sweating over.

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Speaker 1: Me and it was disgusting. She's talking about Prince Andrew

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Speaker 1: hooked up with Prince Andrew, who she says had sex

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Speaker 1: with her here she is a minor. Andrew denies it

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Speaker 1: Sweats Buckets on TV, but then says she had to

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Speaker 1: be lying about their encounter. I call it child rape

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Speaker 1: because at that time he had an ailment where he

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Speaker 1: couldn't sweat. That was actually his defense. I want to

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Speaker 1: go to you to Ashley Willcott, judge and trial lawyer,

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Speaker 1: court TV anchor Ashley, when you hear statement that is

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Speaker 1: so rich in detail, it gives credence to it. And

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Speaker 1: the fact that she says Gillan Maxwell introduces her to

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Speaker 1: Prince Andrew at this location. Then they go to club

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Speaker 1: Tramp where he came on to her. Andrew sweated profusely

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Speaker 1: and there turns up to me. Although Andrew denies knowing

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Speaker 1: her a picture of her with Andrew with his arm

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Speaker 1: around her after Andrew says I've never met her. The

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Speaker 1: details that she described Ashley, that Prince Andrew said, hey,

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Speaker 1: you're about the age of my two daughters. That detail

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Speaker 1: to me has the ring of truth absolutely.

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Speaker 6: So, first of all, I always believe a juvenile a child.

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Speaker 6: This is a child, absolutely. Second of all, you're right

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Speaker 6: all of those specific details. When people lie that don't

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Speaker 6: make up all of those little specific details, how are

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Speaker 6: they going to come up with something to say? Oh,

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Speaker 6: swating profusely?

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Speaker 1: Long story short. According to the source Oxenburgh, Gillen Maxwell

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Speaker 1: brags to Prince Andrew's cousin she recruited girls from trailer

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Speaker 1: parks in Palm Beach to bring them to Jeffrey Epstein.

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Speaker 1: Oxenburgh says Maxwell told her I look for what I

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Speaker 1: know is Epstein's type, and I bring them home. That

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Speaker 1: she Gillan Maxwell was quote proud to be a recruiter

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Speaker 1: for the pedophile during a meeting with Oxenburgh, who was

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Speaker 1: an author and a socialite who was brought in, I

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Speaker 1: guess to write Gillen Maxwell's memoir. Oxenburgh claims that Maxwell

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Speaker 1: was not dating Epstein, although she wanted to marry Epstein.

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace in the Last Days Epstein

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Speaker 1: accomplice Julianne Maxwell appeals her conviction all the way to

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Speaker 1: the US Supreme Court. What do we know about the

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Speaker 1: evidence against Maxwell?

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Speaker 14: Operation GGO Get Gilaine Out was started by family friend

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Speaker 14: Brian Bastram. He claims that Maxwell's human rights are being violated,

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Speaker 14: that she is forced to wear paper clothing with no

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Speaker 14: broad due to the risk of suicide. He also claims

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Speaker 14: that since her incarceration, Maxwell a vegan, has dropped twenty

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Speaker 14: five pounds due to improper diet. Bashram claims that when

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Speaker 14: Maxwell complained about losing so much weight, prison officials removed

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Speaker 14: her skills to stop her from weighing herself. He says

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Speaker 14: that prison guards have stopped talking to Maxwell while she

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Speaker 14: spends her days isolated in a nine foot by seven

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Speaker 14: foot cell. Bashram says that isolation is being extended to

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Speaker 14: her mail as well. He claims that family letters are

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Speaker 14: being vindictively not given to her. Brian Bashram says he

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Speaker 14: finds it appalling that Maxwell was still in custody when

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Speaker 14: other sex offenders like Harvey Weinstein and Bill Cosby were

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Speaker 14: granted bail. Maxwell has denied all six counts relating to

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Speaker 14: child sex trafficking, procurement, and perjury.

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Speaker 1: Here you're hearing our friend Dave Matt from Crime online

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Speaker 1: dot Com maybe has something to do with Weinstein's victims

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Speaker 1: being adult as opposed to Epstein and Gillen Maxwell's alleged

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Speaker 1: victims being children at the time they were sex trafficked. Again,

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Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Gray, so I want to thank you for

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Speaker 1: being with us this as Operation g G Get gill

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Speaker 1: and Maxwell out of jail is underway? Will it happen?

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Speaker 1: Joining me an all star panel to break you down

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Speaker 1: and put it back together again. First of all, high

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Speaker 1: profile lawyer out of Seattle joining me. Trial lawyer Ann Bremner,

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Speaker 1: former prosecutor, also with me and renow to New York

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Speaker 1: psychologists joining me from Manhattan. Karen Start at Karenstark dot com.

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Speaker 1: That's Karen with a c former special agent with the FBI,

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Speaker 1: screen writer on Criminal Minds, Bobby Chacone. Also with me.

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Speaker 1: Melissa Cron, an investigative journalist and author. Melissa is so

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Speaker 1: great to have you with us. Melissa also the author

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Speaker 1: of a brand new book about Epstein. And an upcoming

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Speaker 1: Epstein book called Epstein Inc. Melissa cronin what do you

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Speaker 1: make of the news that there is a movement underfoot

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Speaker 1: to have Gillen Maxwell sprung from jail?

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Speaker 7: So this man, Brian Bosham said that he finds it

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Speaker 7: appalling how she's being treated in prison, and anyone who

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Speaker 7: knows anything about this case finds it appalling that someone

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Speaker 7: would think there was any chance this woman should be released.

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Speaker 7: It's just another example of how delusional she is.

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Speaker 1: I mean, Epstein himself was not released on bond with

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Speaker 1: all of the claims made against him. She's part and

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Speaker 1: parcel of all those claims. I think part of it

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Speaker 1: has to do with that sweetheart deal he got down

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Speaker 1: in PAULM Beach when he basically had house arrest for

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Speaker 1: part of the day and could go in and out

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Speaker 1: of the jail at his will. There was a parade

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Speaker 1: of young girls going in and out of his office

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Speaker 1: when he was on day passes from the jail. So

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Speaker 1: I'm sure that they're concerned Gilan Maxwell will either take

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Speaker 1: off or end up dead if she is released. What

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Speaker 1: do you make of her claims that she is being

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Speaker 1: let me just say, single out for bad treatment.

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Speaker 7: Like I said before, I think she's totally delusional because

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Speaker 7: she just has to realize that she might have gotten

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Speaker 7: away with it for years so far, but now the

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Speaker 7: hand of justice has come down on her and she's

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Speaker 7: not getting away with it. She's not going to get

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Speaker 7: special treatment, she's not going to get her contour and

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Speaker 7: her vegan diet. She just has to wake up to

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Speaker 7: the reality that her time has come and she's going

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Speaker 7: to have to pay for what she did.

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Speaker 1: What do you who is Brian Basham. I only know

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Speaker 1: that he has a family friend of Gilan Maxwell, who

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Speaker 1: is the one reporting from behind jailhouse walls that she

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Speaker 1: has lost so much weight that her skills were taken away.

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Speaker 1: I've got news for everybody. I don't think inmates have

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Speaker 1: scales and their jail cell. That's a load of bs.

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Speaker 1: That's the technical legal term. But I don't think that

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Speaker 1: you and Bremner. You're the high profile lawyer out of Seattle.

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Speaker 1: I have never once in all the jails I've ever

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Speaker 1: been in, seen an inmate with a set of scales.

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Speaker 8: Great mind sinkle like Nancio. That's the first thing I thought.

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Speaker 8: It was, like, I've never heard of an inmate having

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Speaker 8: scales in their cell and having them taken away because

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Speaker 8: they're losing weight. I mean, that just does not ring true.

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Speaker 8: And if it's true, it's the first.

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Speaker 1: What a big fat lie. Now isn't it true? In

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Speaker 1: Bremner a former prosecutor but now civil and defense lawyer,

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Speaker 1: isn't it true? And that had the close of every

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Speaker 1: felony case, the jury is instructed by the judge that

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Speaker 1: when a person, a witness, be it a defendant, a cop,

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Speaker 1: doesn't matter, is caught line under oath, even if it's

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Speaker 1: about something small. The jury will then have the decision

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Speaker 1: the opportunity if they wish to discount all that witness's

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Speaker 1: testimony in toto in total, if that witness is caught line.

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Speaker 1: Would you agree or disagree that that is the state

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Speaker 1: of the law.

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Speaker 8: I agree completely. It's the false in one, false in all.

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Speaker 8: It's the Latin term I think is falsest in union,

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Speaker 8: falsest in pluran.

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Speaker 1: Well, you're up in the game, thrown you Latin phrase it?

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Speaker 1: If that me? So, let me break it down. If

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Speaker 1: this is being reported by the so called family friend

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Speaker 1: that her scale has been taken out of her jail cell,

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Speaker 1: there is no way in hubl an inmate and a

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Speaker 1: high security CI Correctional institute is going to have a scale.

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Speaker 1: It'll take about a New York minute for one of

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Speaker 1: those inmates to pick that up and back a warden,

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Speaker 1: a trustee or another inmate right in the skull and

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Speaker 1: kill them right there with the scales. Okay, So that's BS.

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Speaker 1: And if he's lying about that, or someone is lying

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Speaker 1: about that, then why should I believe any of this? BS?

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Speaker 10: No, I completely agree.

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Speaker 8: I'm not going to use the Latin again. But you

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Speaker 8: can't believe anything they say. I mean, that is so preposterous.

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Speaker 8: I mean, and she can't wear a bra, but she

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Speaker 8: can have a scale. You know, I don't get it.

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Speaker 1: So we're all s you know here, because Bobby, you count.

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Speaker 1: I knew that wouldn't take long ago ahead, Bobby.

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Speaker 12: I mean, it's so called I mean this so called friends,

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Speaker 12: family friend that he's being described. I mean, I think

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Speaker 12: he's also been described as a PR professional. So I

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Speaker 12: think that he might be one of these crisis management

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Speaker 12: guys that's brought in to start this campaign. And they're

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Speaker 12: tolding it a campaign as it's a grassroots movement of

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Speaker 12: people that want her out. When in all probability she

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Speaker 12: is paying for this service. She's paying probably for this

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Speaker 12: family friend here professional to kind of start this whole movement,

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Speaker 12: if you will. And I don't think there's a whole

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Speaker 12: bunch of people behind this movement.

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Speaker 1: She is saying that she is being singled out because

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Speaker 1: of vindictive treatment is being heaped upon her. Back to

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Speaker 1: Melissa Crownin, an investigative journalists who has already written one book,

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Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein Dead Man Tale, No Tales, and she has

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Speaker 1: an upcoming book, Epstein Inc. Coming out I believe in November, Melissa,

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Speaker 1: what is at the crux of the movement to get

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Speaker 1: this alleged child sex trafficker out from behind bars?

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Speaker 7: Naty, It's very important for everyone to understand that, as

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Speaker 7: he said, this is not a family friend. This is

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Speaker 7: a PR professional that has been working for Delaine for

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Speaker 7: more than ten years. He was actually brought in as

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Speaker 7: a third party on the Jufrey versus Maxwell lawsuits years

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Speaker 7: ago because the attorney's found emails between Delaine and the

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Speaker 7: PR company on which he was c seed. Now the

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Speaker 7: PR company is called Acuity Reputation and they have offices

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Speaker 7: in London also in Moscow. The founder is on the

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Speaker 7: advisory board of the Moscow International Finance Committee. So that's

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Speaker 7: a whole other thread that people might want to pull

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Speaker 7: on in the coming week. But I think it's just

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Speaker 7: a distraction technique. The fact is that day after day,

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Speaker 7: week after weeks, more victims come forward to tell their stories,

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Speaker 7: and she's not going to be able to achieve justice

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Speaker 7: this time.

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Speaker 1: Guys, take a listen to our friend Mela Linghi at

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Speaker 1: CBS News. Listen. She had his money, he had her contacts.

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Speaker 1: They made a great group that way. But Glynn was

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Speaker 1: much more snivy and smart than Epstein ever was.

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Speaker 5: At one point during the deposition, Giuffray's attorney, Sigrid McCauley,

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Speaker 5: appeared to ask Maxwell about the now infamous picture of

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Speaker 5: Giuffrey and the UK's Prince Andrew. Geffray says she had

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Speaker 5: sex with the Prince at Maxwell's London home that night.

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Speaker 5: The Prince has repeatly denied guphrase allegations, and Maxwell called

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Speaker 5: Giphra's account of the incident an obvious lie. In the deposition,

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Speaker 5: Maxwell said Guphrey characterized things took place in my bathroom.

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Speaker 5: In the bathtub itself, the tub is too small for

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Speaker 5: any type of activity whatsoever.

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Speaker 1: Okay, let me understand this. She is claiming that Virginia

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Speaker 1: Robert's statements are false because her Gillen Maxwell's tub is

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Speaker 1: not big enough to have sex in. Really, because I'm

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Speaker 1: pretty sure if people can have sex in the bathroom

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Speaker 1: on a plane, they can do it in a bathtub.

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Speaker 1: I don't care how big the bathtub or how small

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Speaker 1: the bathtub is. I mean, I'm not an engineer from

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Speaker 1: Georgia Tech or MIT, but I can figure that much out.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's very interesting. Bobby Chaconne is joining me,

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Speaker 1: former special agent FBI screenwriter Criminal minds. What my longtime

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Speaker 1: friend Ricky Kleman over at CBS is saying. Maxwell can't

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Speaker 1: just say Virginia Jeffries is lying. Lie, she's lying. You

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Speaker 1: got to come up with more than that and the

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Speaker 1: size of your bathtub because there are multiple young girls,

435
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:15,760
Speaker 1: not just Virginia Jeffries. That's saying the same thing. Maxwell

436
00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:20,919
Speaker 1: recruited them sometimes from near the playground at the middle

437
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:26,640
Speaker 1: school to give Epstein massages, which turned sexual. It's more

438
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:28,000
Speaker 1: than just Virginia Jeffries.

439
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:31,200
Speaker 12: Bobby Chickne, that's right, Nancy, And actually I did the

440
00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:33,720
Speaker 12: tend Georgia Tech. So I am one of those people

441
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:36,240
Speaker 12: you referred to. But you know you're right. When they

442
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:39,800
Speaker 12: can't attack you know, the basic facts of the case.

443
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:42,480
Speaker 12: When you have so many victims coming forth telling very

444
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:45,679
Speaker 12: similar stories about the recruitment and about the behavior that

445
00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:48,520
Speaker 12: they were subjected to, you have to start nit picking

446
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:51,159
Speaker 12: at different things. That's why they want the names of

447
00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:53,760
Speaker 12: the victims now published so they can harass them. This

448
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:58,520
Speaker 12: is a very astile, very aggressive defense team that Maxwell had.

449
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:01,240
Speaker 12: You can see it as far about is this deposition

450
00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:03,320
Speaker 12: that she gave, how hostile she is, and you can

451
00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:06,680
Speaker 12: see through their motions now how hostile they're being towards

452
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:07,159
Speaker 12: the victim.

453
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:09,160
Speaker 13: They have to go after the victims.

454
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:10,800
Speaker 12: Because it's the only thing they have because they can't

455
00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:11,800
Speaker 12: attack the facts.

456
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:15,280
Speaker 1: But it's still going to be a very difficult task.

457
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:19,120
Speaker 1: Maybe one victim can be impeached, but when you've got

458
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:23,040
Speaker 1: multiple victims separated in time and space, all saying the

459
00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:26,840
Speaker 1: same thing, it's going to be much more difficult to

460
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:30,880
Speaker 1: discredit them. Although it happened in the Michael Jackson case

461
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:36,080
Speaker 1: and Bremner, all the boy victims were all discredited and

462
00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:39,200
Speaker 1: they were generally saying the same thing, Am Bremner.

463
00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:41,920
Speaker 8: That's exactly what happened. Nancy and I saw it front

464
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:43,920
Speaker 8: row seat, and that trial. You and I covered that

465
00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:47,200
Speaker 8: every day, and that's exactly what happened. There were multiple

466
00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:50,040
Speaker 8: victims they said the same thing. There was definitely a pattern,

467
00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 8: and it came in with I don't remember how many

468
00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:56,640
Speaker 8: boys now, but quite a few, and they were not believed.

469
00:28:56,760 --> 00:29:00,520
Speaker 1: Apparently, guys. Will all the victims be attack to trial?

470
00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:04,320
Speaker 1: Will there be a trial, because right now Gilan Maxwell's

471
00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:09,480
Speaker 1: supporters are starting a movement to get Gilan Maxwell out

472
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:15,880
Speaker 1: of jail, the Goo movement. If she gets out to you,

473
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:20,560
Speaker 1: Melissa cron An investigative journalist, Gilan Maxwell has three passports

474
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:25,680
Speaker 1: that I know of. She I think has remarried. All

475
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:30,400
Speaker 1: that's being kept under wraps. She has money, power and

476
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:35,920
Speaker 1: privilege at her fingertips and is more than capable of

477
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:39,960
Speaker 1: getting a private plane out of here and never coming back.

478
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:41,200
Speaker 12: It's true.

479
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:43,840
Speaker 7: She's not just capable of finding a private plane, she's

480
00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:47,320
Speaker 7: capable of flying it herself. She was actually a helicopter

481
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:50,040
Speaker 7: pilot for Jeffrey Epstein and buried the victims back and

482
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:53,280
Speaker 7: forth from the island. But it's true She is one

483
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:55,920
Speaker 7: of the biggest light risks that I've ever seen or

484
00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:59,840
Speaker 7: heard of in my entire journalistic career because she doesn't

485
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:03,600
Speaker 7: have money and connections herself, her entire family does. She

486
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:07,360
Speaker 7: has seven living siblings, and two of them, her sisters.

487
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:09,200
Speaker 12: Isabelle and Christine.

488
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 7: Were actually one of the early founders of the one

489
00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:15,520
Speaker 7: of the first search engines, so they have times of money.

490
00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:18,880
Speaker 7: They're millionaires in themselves. She has the French passport, she

491
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:23,000
Speaker 7: was born in France, and basically the options are endless

492
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:25,240
Speaker 7: for her, and she actually gets out of prison. So

493
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:27,720
Speaker 7: I think everyone involved in this case knows that that

494
00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:28,479
Speaker 7: can't happen.

495
00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:42,400
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace Julane Maxwell May she wrought

496
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:45,360
Speaker 1: in hell. Already four people connected to the Epstein case

497
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:50,960
Speaker 1: have committed to suicide, thanks Maxwell, and now she's on

498
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:54,560
Speaker 1: her way for her lawyers to argue to the US

499
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:59,680
Speaker 1: Supreme Court. It never ends. The pamp for billionaire Jeffrey

500
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:05,880
Speaker 1: Say literally trolling the school yard to cut little girls

501
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:10,720
Speaker 1: and bring them in for Epstein to molest. All done

502
00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:17,560
Speaker 1: and said, right, case closed, guilty, Not so fast. Take

503
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:19,600
Speaker 1: a listen to our friend Tom Winter.

504
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:22,400
Speaker 15: In may Sty tonight in a trial that's centered on

505
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:26,720
Speaker 15: sexual abuse. Two jurors revealed they too have experienced abuse

506
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:30,800
Speaker 15: their own personal experiences, now pushing Golane Maxwell's attorneys to

507
00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:34,000
Speaker 15: ask for a new case at issue. Legal experts say

508
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:37,360
Speaker 15: whether or not the two were adequately forthcoming about their

509
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:42,280
Speaker 15: experiences before trial. A man identifying himself as Scotti David

510
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:45,480
Speaker 15: was one of the jurors. He spoke to several media outlets,

511
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:47,240
Speaker 15: including The Daily Mail dot com.

512
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:49,000
Speaker 4: I don't want to call her a monster.

513
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:53,560
Speaker 15: A predator is the right word, David, known as Juror

514
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:56,960
Speaker 15: Number fifty, says. Other jurors voiced out about some of

515
00:31:56,960 --> 00:31:57,680
Speaker 15: the accusers.

516
00:31:57,960 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 19: Some people were like, how can they keep going back?

517
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:02,560
Speaker 12: Why would their moms allow them to do that?

518
00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:04,600
Speaker 19: And I was like, we can't judge them based on

519
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:05,760
Speaker 19: what they did or didn't do.

520
00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:09,520
Speaker 1: They they're fourteen.

521
00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:12,920
Speaker 12: They don't really have the wherewithal to know really what's

522
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:13,640
Speaker 12: right and wrong.

523
00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:16,920
Speaker 15: A second juror who requested anonymity, told The New York

524
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:19,760
Speaker 15: Times they were sexually abused as a child, and that

525
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:23,000
Speaker 15: they had also discussed the experience during deliberations.

526
00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:29,280
Speaker 1: Is the Glaine Maxwell guilty verdict doomed? I say no

527
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:33,920
Speaker 1: for legal reasons, will there have to be a new

528
00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:38,440
Speaker 1: trial with me? Doctor Teresa gil professors psychology, has spent

529
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:43,200
Speaker 1: years working with child abste and trauma victims. Joseph Scott Morgan,

530
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:46,880
Speaker 1: Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My

531
00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:50,840
Speaker 1: Fate on Amazon and host of Bodybags with Joe Scott

532
00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:56,160
Speaker 1: Morgan on iHeart. Special guest joining us Charlie Langston, editor

533
00:32:56,280 --> 00:33:01,400
Speaker 1: at Daily Mail with Female and When Yuhright, California prosecutor,

534
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:05,040
Speaker 1: author Red Flags at Wendypatrick PhD dot com and host

535
00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:08,720
Speaker 1: of Today with Doctor Wendy on kc b Q. First

536
00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:12,640
Speaker 1: of you, Charlie Langston, before I get into the legalities

537
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:18,280
Speaker 1: of whether this requires a whole new trial for Gelaine Maxwell,

538
00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:22,840
Speaker 1: who no doubt did it over and over and over,

539
00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:27,600
Speaker 1: even molesting some of the little girls herself, tell me

540
00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:30,920
Speaker 1: what's happening this? Does you know? Charlie? I find this

541
00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:35,280
Speaker 1: really hard to believe because I never tried a case

542
00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:41,840
Speaker 1: ever without asking the entire panel. Do any of you

543
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:46,640
Speaker 1: know anyone, even if it's yourself, a neighbor, a family member,

544
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:50,400
Speaker 1: that have been a victim of a crime. Have any

545
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:55,480
Speaker 1: of you been a victim of a crime, and the

546
00:33:56,520 --> 00:34:00,800
Speaker 1: converse to that is, do you know anybody that's been convicted?

547
00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:04,560
Speaker 1: Anybody can't hand have you been convicted? So I find

548
00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:08,279
Speaker 1: it really hard to believe that these high profile lawyers

549
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:11,240
Speaker 1: and veteran prosecutors did not ask that question.

550
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:14,920
Speaker 13: Well, I think it's worth pointing out that we don't

551
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:18,680
Speaker 13: actually know for sure right now that that question was

552
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:23,440
Speaker 13: not asked. What we do know is that Juras have

553
00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:28,399
Speaker 13: said that they were not asked specifically whether they were

554
00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:32,839
Speaker 13: victims of sexual abuse. So the question is whether they

555
00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:36,720
Speaker 13: interpreted the question of have you ever committed a crime?

556
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:39,759
Speaker 13: Have you ever been the victim of a crime. It

557
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:43,239
Speaker 13: may be that they did not interpret that question correctly

558
00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:47,320
Speaker 13: and did not feel that their experiences with sexual abuse

559
00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:50,960
Speaker 13: were the correct answer to that. So, you know, if

560
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:53,480
Speaker 13: they were the victims of sexual abuse and their abuses

561
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:56,239
Speaker 13: were never convicted, they may not have felt that it

562
00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:59,200
Speaker 13: was a crime that was committed. If that makes sense.

563
00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:03,360
Speaker 1: Yes, I see what you're saying. They could have been

564
00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:07,239
Speaker 1: molested or abused and not realized that that was a

565
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:13,000
Speaker 1: crime if it were never prosecuted. I think long story short,

566
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:17,120
Speaker 1: do you know that song? Winnie Patrick, California prosecutor. I

567
00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:21,799
Speaker 1: feel a bad moon coming. I feel about rising. I

568
00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:26,239
Speaker 1: feel a bad moon rising. You know there's trouble on

569
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:31,080
Speaker 1: the way. Charlie Langston with US dailymail dot com. How

570
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:34,080
Speaker 1: many jurors do we think we have right now that

571
00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:34,799
Speaker 1: are coming out?

572
00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:38,520
Speaker 13: We believe that there are at least three. However, there

573
00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:42,440
Speaker 13: is a fourth durer whose sources tell us is also

574
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:46,680
Speaker 13: under question and may have also been the victim of

575
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:49,759
Speaker 13: sexual abuse. So as we heard the first DURA who

576
00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:51,680
Speaker 13: said that they were the victim of sexual abuse with

577
00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:56,319
Speaker 13: Scotti David, he spoke to us about his experiences, a

578
00:35:56,440 --> 00:35:59,759
Speaker 13: second jura, who is remaining anonymous, has spoken to The

579
00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:03,400
Speaker 13: New York Times, and we reported over the weekend that

580
00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:07,360
Speaker 13: a third DURA has been found by Gie Lane's legal

581
00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:12,080
Speaker 13: team to have experienced sexual abuse. And the really big

582
00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:15,360
Speaker 13: issue here is that both Scottie David and the second

583
00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:19,080
Speaker 13: anonymous duror have admitted that they spoke about their own

584
00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:23,640
Speaker 13: experiences with sexual abuse during deliberations, and both of those

585
00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:27,520
Speaker 13: jurors have said that they believed that their stories helped

586
00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:31,080
Speaker 13: to influence the way that the other jurors went about

587
00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:32,160
Speaker 13: their deliberations.

588
00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:35,279
Speaker 1: Here's one hold on just a moment I want you

589
00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:39,960
Speaker 1: to hear durre Our Scottie David speaking to dailymail dot

590
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:43,360
Speaker 1: com rakat c. You decided to share your story.

591
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:48,440
Speaker 4: That's something that has used to yes too. In the questionnaire,

592
00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:50,800
Speaker 4: something that you people are aware of when you were

593
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:51,840
Speaker 4: selected as a juror.

594
00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:55,919
Speaker 19: No, they don't ask your sexual abuse history. They didn't

595
00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:56,880
Speaker 19: ask him in the questionnaire.

596
00:36:57,440 --> 00:36:59,440
Speaker 7: I thought in the questionaire there was a question that

597
00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:01,920
Speaker 7: asked you were a victim or if you were a friend.

598
00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:07,120
Speaker 4: Or that's a victim, appreciate It was some forty eight.

599
00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:11,120
Speaker 9: I don't remember.

600
00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:14,560
Speaker 1: Somebody said you the questionaire today and there was a question.

601
00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:16,200
Speaker 4: Interesting.

602
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:19,680
Speaker 13: I mean, I guess when did you fail them that question?

603
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:24,359
Speaker 19: I definitely on the first day of jury selection. I

604
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:27,320
Speaker 19: would have definitely marked yes. But I honestly don't remember

605
00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:27,800
Speaker 19: that question.

606
00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:31,680
Speaker 1: You're not the sun. No. No, I mean, I know

607
00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:33,160
Speaker 1: my face is rights. I can fill the blood, but

608
00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:34,759
Speaker 1: I honestly.

609
00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:36,560
Speaker 19: That's why I answered it that way. I don't remember

610
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:40,840
Speaker 19: it being there, but I did answer. I definitely remember

611
00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:44,800
Speaker 19: a family or relative or something, but being sexually abused.

612
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:46,879
Speaker 4: I was honest on all my questions.

613
00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:53,400
Speaker 1: Okay, So he sounds a little unclear on what he remembers. Okay,

614
00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:58,600
Speaker 1: back to you, Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor. Jurors always talk

615
00:37:58,640 --> 00:38:02,640
Speaker 1: about their own experienperiences in jer our deliberation, in jury deliberations.

616
00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:06,800
Speaker 1: That's not uncommon. We expect that to happen. So tell

617
00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:10,600
Speaker 1: me what you see as the big issue here, Wendy Patrick.

618
00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:13,120
Speaker 10: I think the big issue is how these jurors were

619
00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:16,680
Speaker 10: interpreting sexual abuse. You know. I know that if we

620
00:38:16,719 --> 00:38:20,239
Speaker 10: don't break down that term as we often do in deliberations,

621
00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:23,280
Speaker 10: if it's actually part of what's charged, if we simply

622
00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:25,279
Speaker 10: ask them in dear and let it hang out there,

623
00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:27,800
Speaker 10: I can tell you many jurors think it means forced

624
00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:32,080
Speaker 10: inner course. They don't think about it as being touching, masturbation,

625
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:35,720
Speaker 10: some of the you hate to say, lesser forms of abuse,

626
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:37,800
Speaker 10: But we have to put them on a spectrum somewhere,

627
00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:41,920
Speaker 10: because if jurors are honestly envisioning the rape scenarios, when

628
00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:44,040
Speaker 10: they hear a word like sexual abuse, that kind of

629
00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:47,600
Speaker 10: a term, they're not going to disclose some other types

630
00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:50,520
Speaker 10: of abuse until they get in a deliberation room. So

631
00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:55,000
Speaker 10: this may be legally significant because it wouldn't necessarily indicate

632
00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:57,360
Speaker 10: dishonesty during the wadear process.

633
00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:01,080
Speaker 1: Okay, what I'm trying to get at is is there

634
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:06,359
Speaker 1: going to be a brand new trial for Madam Herve

635
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:12,280
Speaker 1: Gilaine Maxwell, or will the state take a cheap plea

636
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:17,719
Speaker 1: rather than retry the case if it rises to that? Now,

637
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:21,000
Speaker 1: the fact that jurors during jury liberations talk about their

638
00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:24,880
Speaker 1: own personal experiences, there's nothing wrong with that. That always happens.

639
00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:28,879
Speaker 1: You expect that to happen. You want people to draw

640
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:32,359
Speaker 1: on their past experiences as they reach a verdict. That's

641
00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:34,360
Speaker 1: not going to be a problem. I want you to

642
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:39,360
Speaker 1: listen to our cut be our friends at CBS News.

643
00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:42,239
Speaker 3: Before the trial, potential jurors were asked to fill out

644
00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:46,000
Speaker 3: this questionnaire, including this question have you ever been the

645
00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:49,640
Speaker 3: victim of sexual assault? One juror, using only his first

646
00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:53,320
Speaker 3: and middle names, Scottie David fulled Reuters he can't remember

647
00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:56,520
Speaker 3: if he disclosed his own claims of sex abuse, saying

648
00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:58,600
Speaker 3: he flew through the initial questionnaire.

649
00:39:58,960 --> 00:39:59,359
Speaker 4: He's old.

650
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:00,840
Speaker 3: Routers would have answered the.

651
00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:04,480
Speaker 20: Questions honestly, prosecutors told the judge overseeing the trial. The

652
00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:09,080
Speaker 20: statement's merit attention by the court. Maxwell's lawyers then told

653
00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:12,040
Speaker 20: the judge she can and should order a new trial.

654
00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:14,880
Speaker 20: A separateurer told The New York Times they spoke of

655
00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:18,280
Speaker 20: their own sexual abuse during deliberations, which the paper says

656
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:21,120
Speaker 20: appeared to help shape the jury's discussions.

657
00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:26,920
Speaker 1: This woman, according to a jury, according to multiple child victims,

658
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:32,200
Speaker 1: went out even on school playgrounds, trolling for little girls

659
00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:35,840
Speaker 1: around fourteen that we know of, to bring back to

660
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:38,880
Speaker 1: her boyfriend, Jeffrey Epstein, the billionaire that hangs out with

661
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:43,160
Speaker 1: Clinton and Trump and all sorts of millionaires and very

662
00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:47,960
Speaker 1: wealthy influential people for him to molest over and over

663
00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:50,920
Speaker 1: and over until they aged out, and he wanted somebody

664
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:55,800
Speaker 1: even younger. Yes, this is her. She just gets convicted

665
00:40:56,080 --> 00:41:00,680
Speaker 1: finally after a massive federal trial. And now only now

666
00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:04,960
Speaker 1: do the jurors decide they're gonna come forward and say, oh, yeah,

667
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:08,520
Speaker 1: I was molested. Well, what about that GURR questionnaire? Do

668
00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:12,840
Speaker 1: anybody hear what I just heard? The question number forty

669
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:17,319
Speaker 1: eight specifically asked have you ever been the victim of

670
00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:24,520
Speaker 1: sex assault? According to CBS News, now here's the reality

671
00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:29,160
Speaker 1: when you're talking about a jury trial. Back to you,

672
00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:32,200
Speaker 1: Wendy Patrick, A lot of people may have been a

673
00:41:32,239 --> 00:41:36,520
Speaker 1: crime victim. But the issue is can you listen to

674
00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:39,799
Speaker 1: the facts in evidence brought in at trial, not what

675
00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:42,600
Speaker 1: you may have read the paper, and render a verdict

676
00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:47,000
Speaker 1: that speaks the truth. That's the question. Doesn't matter if

677
00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:49,720
Speaker 1: you've been a victim not a victim, if you're black,

678
00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:51,800
Speaker 1: if you're white, if you're a man, if you're a woman,

679
00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:55,120
Speaker 1: if you're a Christian, if you're an atheist, it doesn't matter.

680
00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:59,680
Speaker 1: It's can you render a verdict that speaks the truth? Yes,

681
00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:02,640
Speaker 1: Wendy Patrick, Yeah, absolutely.

682
00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:05,520
Speaker 10: The answer is yes. And so the jurors that are

683
00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:09,920
Speaker 10: talking out afterwards are basically saying what they said influence

684
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:12,200
Speaker 10: the other jurors ability to be fair and try the

685
00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:14,280
Speaker 10: case on the facts they heard from the witness stand.

686
00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:20,000
Speaker 1: No, no, no, that's not what they said. They said it,

687
00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:25,840
Speaker 1: Charlie Langston. Aren't they saying that them recounting their experiences

688
00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:29,640
Speaker 1: a stake to the jury deliberations, not that it made

689
00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:32,960
Speaker 1: them unfair or im or partial.

690
00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:35,719
Speaker 13: They didn't say that it made them unfair. What they said,

691
00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:39,040
Speaker 13: I mean, what the second juris said specifically was that

692
00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:43,600
Speaker 13: their experiences of sexual assault had helped to shape the

693
00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:47,640
Speaker 13: jury's discussions. So effectively, What the two jurors who have

694
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:51,000
Speaker 13: spoken out have said is that in them sharing their

695
00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:55,200
Speaker 13: recollections of sexual abuse, it made the other jurors understand

696
00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:59,560
Speaker 13: more how victims of sexual abuse may continue to recall

697
00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:03,120
Speaker 13: their experiences, and I think in doing so, the jury

698
00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:05,960
Speaker 13: was maybe able to realize a little bit more clearly

699
00:43:06,719 --> 00:43:10,600
Speaker 13: just how well the trauma of abuse sticks with you

700
00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:15,080
Speaker 13: throughout the years. So Maxwell's legal team one of their

701
00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:17,440
Speaker 13: big arguments was to try and say that these women

702
00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:20,840
Speaker 13: were coming forward because they wanted money, that they couldn't

703
00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:23,960
Speaker 13: really remember what had gone on, And these jurors who

704
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:27,480
Speaker 13: spoke of their own experiences of sexual abuse were effectively

705
00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:31,239
Speaker 13: helping the other jurors to realize that, no, these recollections

706
00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:34,040
Speaker 13: do really stick with you, and you know, you are

707
00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:37,399
Speaker 13: still able to recall a lot of details in very

708
00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:41,080
Speaker 13: kind of specific ways. However, other, you know, facts might

709
00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:43,359
Speaker 13: be a little bit more blurry as time goes on.

710
00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:49,640
Speaker 21: That wash wait wait wait, wait wait, Okay, this happens

711
00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:52,520
Speaker 21: when you're crime vactim. I will never forget for years

712
00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:54,520
Speaker 21: and years and years, even when I was a prosecutor,

713
00:43:54,920 --> 00:43:56,840
Speaker 21: I would not reveal did.

714
00:43:56,600 --> 00:43:58,880
Speaker 1: Not they want to talk about it. To other people

715
00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:02,560
Speaker 1: that my fiance I've been murdered just before our wedding.

716
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:05,400
Speaker 1: And that changed the course of my life and my career,

717
00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:08,400
Speaker 1: and that's why I became a prosecutor. It was nobody's business.

718
00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:10,840
Speaker 1: I didn't want to talk about it, but I remember

719
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:14,920
Speaker 1: it very well. And then I finally am publicly telling

720
00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:19,560
Speaker 1: my story at request of Larry King. And do you

721
00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:22,239
Speaker 1: know he asked me, when did this happen? And I

722
00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:26,239
Speaker 1: said August sixth, and I screwed up the year. I

723
00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:29,640
Speaker 1: don't remember what year, I said, but I screwed up

724
00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:33,040
Speaker 1: the year Keith was murdered. Why did I do that?

725
00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:37,840
Speaker 1: I don't know. Now. I remember so many things vividly.

726
00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:41,680
Speaker 1: And then of course I was attacked like crazy about

727
00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:47,240
Speaker 1: just everything because I screwed up the year on national TV.

728
00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:50,160
Speaker 1: Now one thing, correct me if I'm wrong, and then

729
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:55,360
Speaker 1: everybody jump in. Charlie, this guy, Scottie David explained to

730
00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:59,120
Speaker 1: the jurors some aspects of his abuse had been easier

731
00:44:59,160 --> 00:45:01,800
Speaker 1: to recall than other quote. I remember the color of

732
00:45:01,840 --> 00:45:04,759
Speaker 1: the carpet, the walls. Some of it can be replayed

733
00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:07,600
Speaker 1: like a video. I do that too, but I can't

734
00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:10,840
Speaker 1: remember all the details. There are some things that run together.

735
00:45:11,320 --> 00:45:16,120
Speaker 1: And in his talking to the jury, according to him Charlie,

736
00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:19,080
Speaker 1: he says that the jurors were going, Wow, well, why

737
00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:22,319
Speaker 1: didn't the parents let this happen? Didn't they notice their

738
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:25,759
Speaker 1: children weren't home at the right time? And because of

739
00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:29,000
Speaker 1: what he had gone through, he told the jurors women,

740
00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:31,400
Speaker 1: you can't judge the victims like that are their parents.

741
00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:35,080
Speaker 1: They're just fourteen years old, for Pete's sake. So do

742
00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:36,600
Speaker 1: I have that right, Charlie Lanx.

743
00:45:36,840 --> 00:45:40,680
Speaker 13: Yes. Effectively, he was helping the jury to understand, as

744
00:45:40,719 --> 00:45:44,239
Speaker 13: a victim himself, why some of these women might be

745
00:45:44,280 --> 00:45:47,239
Speaker 13: able to recall certain details, as you said, in a

746
00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:50,960
Speaker 13: very specific way, but not be able to remember other things,

747
00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:53,640
Speaker 13: as you said, like dates or times, or you know,

748
00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:56,960
Speaker 13: even the location of where the abuse happened, because that,

749
00:45:57,239 --> 00:45:59,759
Speaker 13: you know. I'm not, unfortunately an expert, but that's the

750
00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:03,719
Speaker 13: way human brain works. When you go through an incredibly

751
00:46:04,120 --> 00:46:07,920
Speaker 13: traumatic experience, sometimes you do try and block out the

752
00:46:07,960 --> 00:46:09,080
Speaker 13: more painful aspect.

753
00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:11,920
Speaker 1: Okay, I heard everybody jump in. I heard I know,

754
00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:15,839
Speaker 1: I Jo gott Morgan, yeah, j hit me.

755
00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:18,680
Speaker 22: Yeah, listen, I got to tell you, you know, I'm

756
00:46:18,680 --> 00:46:22,480
Speaker 22: hearing the words molestation and sexual abuse being thrown around

757
00:46:22,520 --> 00:46:25,160
Speaker 22: a lot. I got to remind everybody here that she

758
00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:29,759
Speaker 22: was not charged or accused of those things. Officially from

759
00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:33,640
Speaker 22: a legal perspective, She's charged with enticement of a minor,

760
00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:38,440
Speaker 22: transportation of a minor, sex, trafficking of a minor, and

761
00:46:38,520 --> 00:46:42,960
Speaker 22: three counts of conspiracy. So you know, if abuse or

762
00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:46,319
Speaker 22: molestation is an element of that crime, which you know,

763
00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:48,799
Speaker 22: for those that don't understand elements, it's a it's a

764
00:46:48,840 --> 00:46:52,080
Speaker 22: building block of the crime. Maybe that's the case. But

765
00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:55,800
Speaker 22: you know, to to the other point here where these

766
00:46:56,280 --> 00:46:59,520
Speaker 22: you know, during this this questionnaire where they actually asked, well,

767
00:46:59,560 --> 00:47:02,160
Speaker 22: do you have any experience with trafficking? Do you have

768
00:47:02,239 --> 00:47:05,400
Speaker 22: any experience with enticement? Do you have any experience with

769
00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:08,319
Speaker 22: the transportation of a minor? You know, you know, to

770
00:47:08,480 --> 00:47:11,640
Speaker 22: for tat, you know, is that the case because right

771
00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:14,600
Speaker 22: now all I'm hearing is molestation and abuse and she

772
00:47:14,719 --> 00:47:15,879
Speaker 22: wasn't charged with us things.

773
00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:19,440
Speaker 1: Next to doctor Troy sa Gill joining as professor's psychology

774
00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:21,800
Speaker 1: and author way in doctor Well.

775
00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:26,040
Speaker 9: In terms of memory, we know that the hippocampus is

776
00:47:26,080 --> 00:47:32,120
Speaker 9: important for memory formation and recall. However, people understress such

777
00:47:32,160 --> 00:47:36,399
Speaker 9: as children who are experiencing abuse. The body goes into

778
00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:40,560
Speaker 9: fight flight. Adrenaline and cortisol are released, and all of

779
00:47:40,600 --> 00:47:43,839
Speaker 9: a sudden, the hippocampus is switched off and it goes

780
00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:50,080
Speaker 9: into the abigdala and the amygdala is not good for memory, recall, formation,

781
00:47:50,520 --> 00:47:55,280
Speaker 9: or retrieval. And that's why a lot of the people

782
00:47:55,480 --> 00:48:00,920
Speaker 9: who were on trial and his victims don't have really

783
00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:04,279
Speaker 9: clear memories. And that's why they can do what you did,

784
00:48:04,640 --> 00:48:09,320
Speaker 9: particularly if they're understress during the trial. They go back

785
00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:14,080
Speaker 9: to the amiddaler and they can remember feeling and body memories,

786
00:48:14,239 --> 00:48:17,960
Speaker 9: but they can't remember particular facts. And that's actually what

787
00:48:18,360 --> 00:48:23,120
Speaker 9: Elizabeth Lostis was bringing out in the trial was why

788
00:48:23,160 --> 00:48:27,440
Speaker 9: there is false memories. And that's what the juror said

789
00:48:27,440 --> 00:48:31,480
Speaker 9: that he tried to clarify to the jury when they're

790
00:48:31,520 --> 00:48:35,880
Speaker 9: in deliberations, because many of them said that they were confused.

791
00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:41,960
Speaker 9: Why in twenty eighteen, nineteen, and twenty they gave one story.

792
00:48:42,160 --> 00:48:45,480
Speaker 9: The victims gave one story to the federal government, and

793
00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:47,400
Speaker 9: now they're giving another story.

794
00:48:47,640 --> 00:48:52,440
Speaker 1: I don't think that the victims gave different stories. I

795
00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:58,680
Speaker 1: think that under the appropriate questioning, more facts came out.

796
00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:03,400
Speaker 1: On the stand, because when you ask somebody, okay, what

797
00:49:03,520 --> 00:49:06,160
Speaker 1: happened and then they tell you, well, then you may

798
00:49:06,200 --> 00:49:08,440
Speaker 1: want to ask, well, do you remember what time of

799
00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:10,560
Speaker 1: year it was, do you remember what the part was wearing?

800
00:49:10,719 --> 00:49:12,600
Speaker 1: Do you remember what you were wearing? Do you remember

801
00:49:12,600 --> 00:49:15,000
Speaker 1: who let you into the home? Do you remember if

802
00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:18,640
Speaker 1: there were any maids there, anybody else at Epstein's home.

803
00:49:19,239 --> 00:49:21,960
Speaker 1: There are a million questions that you can ask where

804
00:49:22,040 --> 00:49:25,520
Speaker 1: the victim would add to the story, not necessarily change

805
00:49:25,520 --> 00:49:25,960
Speaker 1: the story.

806
00:49:26,040 --> 00:49:27,040
Speaker 2: Charlie, No, and I.

807
00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:29,799
Speaker 13: Don't think I mean, you know, from my experience of

808
00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:32,600
Speaker 13: kind of reading through everything that went on with the trial,

809
00:49:32,880 --> 00:49:37,359
Speaker 13: I don't think that any of the victims were particularly

810
00:49:37,760 --> 00:49:41,160
Speaker 13: doubtful in any of their you know, kind of testimonies.

811
00:49:41,239 --> 00:49:44,920
Speaker 13: I think that all of the victims spoke very clearly

812
00:49:45,239 --> 00:49:50,120
Speaker 13: about what they had been through and Delane's part in that, which,

813
00:49:50,160 --> 00:49:53,560
Speaker 13: you know, as we've pointed out, we aren't kind of

814
00:49:53,600 --> 00:49:56,759
Speaker 13: looking here at a charge for sexual abuse at the

815
00:49:56,800 --> 00:49:59,520
Speaker 13: hands of Glane. What we are looking for is kind

816
00:49:59,520 --> 00:50:03,560
Speaker 13: of does of trafficking and enticement, and every single one

817
00:50:03,600 --> 00:50:07,759
Speaker 13: of the victims was able to give very clear testimony

818
00:50:07,880 --> 00:50:11,600
Speaker 13: about the part that Gilaine played in, you know, kind

819
00:50:11,600 --> 00:50:16,840
Speaker 13: of Epstein's trafficking ring effectively. So when it comes to

820
00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:21,320
Speaker 13: a jura like Scotti, David explaining to his other juras,

821
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:23,760
Speaker 13: you know what it is like to be the victim

822
00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:25,799
Speaker 13: of sexual abuse, and what it is like to kind

823
00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:28,880
Speaker 13: of try and recall those memories. I don't think that

824
00:50:29,000 --> 00:50:33,880
Speaker 13: he in any way kind of made duras completely change

825
00:50:33,920 --> 00:50:37,120
Speaker 13: their minds about witness testimonies. I think what he was

826
00:50:37,120 --> 00:50:41,120
Speaker 13: trying to do was offer what some of the victims

827
00:50:41,200 --> 00:50:44,719
Speaker 13: weren't able to say, which is sometimes my memory is

828
00:50:44,760 --> 00:50:48,320
Speaker 13: a little bit blurry. Sometimes I can't recall certain facts.

829
00:50:48,680 --> 00:50:51,080
Speaker 13: But what I can recall and what I know to

830
00:50:51,120 --> 00:50:53,719
Speaker 13: be true, is what I went through. Just because I

831
00:50:53,760 --> 00:50:55,880
Speaker 13: can't remember whether it happened on a Tuesday or a

832
00:50:55,880 --> 00:50:58,240
Speaker 13: Wednesday doesn't mean that it didn't happen.

833
00:50:58,719 --> 00:51:02,640
Speaker 1: I think to Eric, this is Joe Pike the skym Newes.

834
00:51:03,120 --> 00:51:07,440
Speaker 23: This juror says that he quotes flew through the questionnaire.

835
00:51:08,120 --> 00:51:11,560
Speaker 23: He doesn't remember answering a question about abuse, but if

836
00:51:11,600 --> 00:51:15,240
Speaker 23: he did answer it, he answered it honestly. Certainly, both

837
00:51:15,640 --> 00:51:18,000
Speaker 23: sets of lawyers on the prosecution and on the defense side,

838
00:51:18,200 --> 00:51:21,080
Speaker 23: recognizes a problem here. The first lawyers to get in

839
00:51:21,080 --> 00:51:23,400
Speaker 23: touch with the judge rights them, asking for an inquiry

840
00:51:23,600 --> 00:51:25,160
Speaker 23: and a call heering in a month's time was the

841
00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:28,040
Speaker 23: government lawyers. But since then, in the last hour or so,

842
00:51:28,080 --> 00:51:30,360
Speaker 23: Gilley Maxwell's team have also been in touch with Judge

843
00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:35,480
Speaker 23: Nathan saying that the interviews and the fact that Scotty

844
00:51:35,600 --> 00:51:40,239
Speaker 23: David was a victim of abuse presents quotes incontroversible grounds

845
00:51:40,280 --> 00:51:43,399
Speaker 23: for a new trial. He could potentially be in some

846
00:51:43,520 --> 00:51:46,399
Speaker 23: legal trouble if he has misled the court, although I'm

847
00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:49,879
Speaker 23: sure he would deny that. Anna. What we could potentially see,

848
00:51:49,920 --> 00:51:53,560
Speaker 23: although it is early days, is the judge declaring the

849
00:51:53,600 --> 00:51:57,640
Speaker 23: first trial a mistrial and starting again from scratch. That's

850
00:51:57,680 --> 00:52:00,200
Speaker 23: something I'm sure that the government that prosecutors here in

851
00:52:00,239 --> 00:52:02,920
Speaker 23: the US I would want to avoid. But that is

852
00:52:02,920 --> 00:52:05,320
Speaker 23: what gal Maxwell's law is on now, calling for.

853
00:52:05,920 --> 00:52:10,759
Speaker 1: Oh, the potential of a brand new trial, putting the

854
00:52:10,840 --> 00:52:14,600
Speaker 1: victims back up again, doing it all over would be

855
00:52:14,760 --> 00:52:19,040
Speaker 1: devastating to the state. But the reality is to Wendy Patrick,

856
00:52:19,080 --> 00:52:23,680
Speaker 1: California prosecutor, host of Today with Doctor Wendy on KCBQ,

857
00:52:23,960 --> 00:52:28,640
Speaker 1: the reality is that what must be shown is not

858
00:52:28,840 --> 00:52:33,360
Speaker 1: that a GURR or multiple grs had been molested in

859
00:52:33,400 --> 00:52:37,600
Speaker 1: the past, not that, but that that information was either

860
00:52:38,239 --> 00:52:41,319
Speaker 1: not requested by the state, that the state had some

861
00:52:41,360 --> 00:52:44,920
Speaker 1: type of misconduct, and we see in question number forty

862
00:52:44,920 --> 00:52:47,960
Speaker 1: eight the state did ask that question, So we don't

863
00:52:47,960 --> 00:52:53,000
Speaker 1: have any prosecutorial misconduct. Did a GURR lie that would

864
00:52:53,040 --> 00:52:59,520
Speaker 1: be an issue? And if so, did that lie maybe

865
00:53:00,040 --> 00:53:05,960
Speaker 1: are impartial and would it have changed the outcome of

866
00:53:06,239 --> 00:53:12,800
Speaker 1: the trial? Otherwise? That is a very state burden. Wendy Patrick, No,

867
00:53:12,960 --> 00:53:13,319
Speaker 1: it is.

868
00:53:13,560 --> 00:53:15,600
Speaker 10: And I won't say that I haven't had to try

869
00:53:15,640 --> 00:53:18,160
Speaker 10: cases twice due to during this conduct, because I have.

870
00:53:18,360 --> 00:53:21,000
Speaker 10: But that doesn't mean that it is a slam dunk,

871
00:53:21,040 --> 00:53:24,000
Speaker 10: as the defense is contending. Not only is it a

872
00:53:24,040 --> 00:53:27,480
Speaker 10: steep hill to climb, but it also involves something courts

873
00:53:27,600 --> 00:53:30,719
Speaker 10: really don't want to do, which is really invading the

874
00:53:30,800 --> 00:53:33,880
Speaker 10: purview of jury deliberations. I mean, that's why we have

875
00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:36,600
Speaker 10: the jury system. Is there entitled to get together and

876
00:53:36,680 --> 00:53:39,759
Speaker 10: talk and share and to go beyond that veil and

877
00:53:39,800 --> 00:53:42,440
Speaker 10: then start what polling jurors to see if in fact

878
00:53:42,800 --> 00:53:45,040
Speaker 10: this did make them unfair when they heard this. That's

879
00:53:45,080 --> 00:53:47,440
Speaker 10: not something a judge is going to do lightly. So

880
00:53:47,480 --> 00:53:49,120
Speaker 10: I do think that this judge will they take a

881
00:53:49,239 --> 00:53:52,800
Speaker 10: very thoughtful view as to whether or not what's being

882
00:53:52,920 --> 00:53:57,160
Speaker 10: raised here actually will cause her to even think about

883
00:53:57,160 --> 00:53:58,080
Speaker 10: going down that road.

884
00:53:58,440 --> 00:54:02,480
Speaker 1: And this occurring the potential of a new trial being

885
00:54:02,719 --> 00:54:07,239
Speaker 1: ordered for Glaine Maxwell. If there was prosecutorial misconduct, the

886
00:54:07,280 --> 00:54:10,399
Speaker 1: whole thing could be over, the commission could be thrown out,

887
00:54:10,800 --> 00:54:14,120
Speaker 1: and the case may be barred from retrial. I do

888
00:54:14,280 --> 00:54:18,239
Speaker 1: not see any prosecutorial misconduct, but will there have to

889
00:54:18,360 --> 00:54:20,440
Speaker 1: be a new trial?

890
00:54:20,840 --> 00:54:24,200
Speaker 18: This appealed by Julaine Maxwell was denied by a court.

891
00:54:24,360 --> 00:54:29,319
Speaker 18: The appeals court confirmed and upheld Maxwell's convictions, describing her

892
00:54:29,440 --> 00:54:34,920
Speaker 18: sentence as procedurally reasonable. The court wrote the alleged crimes

893
00:54:34,920 --> 00:54:38,560
Speaker 18: fell within the statute of limitations and the agreement did

894
00:54:38,600 --> 00:54:42,680
Speaker 18: not cover Maxwell. This appeal was in a federal appeals court.

895
00:54:43,040 --> 00:54:45,400
Speaker 18: Now it's on to the Supreme Court.

896
00:54:45,400 --> 00:54:48,320
Speaker 1: While Jelaine Maxwell appeals her case all the way to

897
00:54:48,320 --> 00:54:51,400
Speaker 1: the US Supreme Court. What happened to the release of

898
00:54:51,520 --> 00:54:56,640
Speaker 1: all those documents? Thousands and thousands of pages of Epstein

899
00:54:56,760 --> 00:55:02,120
Speaker 1: documents being kept under steal. Now we were told by the

900
00:55:02,280 --> 00:55:07,640
Speaker 1: US attorney that they would be released. What's in those documents?

901
00:55:07,920 --> 00:55:11,200
Speaker 1: Why are they so secretive? Too hot to handle? Whose

902
00:55:11,320 --> 00:55:17,000
Speaker 1: names are in those documents? As Juline Maxwell appeals her

903
00:55:17,160 --> 00:55:22,600
Speaker 1: case to the US Supreme Court, we wait as justice unfolds.

904
00:55:23,680 --> 00:55:28,640
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace signing off goodbye.