WEBVTT - Karol Markowicz Show: From Tech to Activism with Ian Haworth 0:00:05.440 --> 0:00:08.840 Hi, Welcome back to the Carol Markowitz Show on iHeartRadio. 0:00:09.280 --> 0:00:13.800 I had two conversations recently where the person said something 0:00:13.960 --> 0:00:18.200 like women are choosing career over relationships and that's why 0:00:18.360 --> 0:00:21.880 marriage rates are down. I know this is a standard line. 0:00:22.079 --> 0:00:24.680 People say it all the time, people have said it 0:00:24.680 --> 0:00:28.880 on my show before, but I don't quite agree. I've 0:00:28.920 --> 0:00:32.360 known lots of career women in my life, and I'm 0:00:32.360 --> 0:00:37.800 talking titans of industry and girl bosses with MLM scams, 0:00:38.640 --> 0:00:41.240 and they're always trying to meet a man at the 0:00:41.320 --> 0:00:45.639 beginning of their careers in the middle always They may 0:00:45.680 --> 0:00:49.239 have less time to devote to it, sure, but some 0:00:49.280 --> 0:00:53.000 of them do treat it like another job. There are 0:00:53.040 --> 0:00:56.880 times in your life that are right for finding your person. Yes, 0:00:57.160 --> 0:00:59.840 it's probably not going to be the year you're trying 0:00:59.880 --> 0:01:03.760 to make partner, but it won't be your career that's 0:01:03.760 --> 0:01:06.959 standing in the way for a decade or more. The 0:01:07.040 --> 0:01:12.280 problem from the woman's perspective, I think is they believe 0:01:12.319 --> 0:01:15.520 they have more time than they do, so they might 0:01:15.600 --> 0:01:19.119 spend their twenties in a dead end relationship with maybe 0:01:19.200 --> 0:01:22.039 even a good guy, but someone they don't plan to 0:01:22.160 --> 0:01:25.200 marry or have kids with. And sometimes the guy is 0:01:25.240 --> 0:01:27.760 not that good. I can think of many examples of 0:01:27.800 --> 0:01:30.200 women in my life who wasted many years on a 0:01:30.240 --> 0:01:34.560 guy they knew all along wasn't right for them. Often 0:01:35.160 --> 0:01:38.160 they are dazzled by his looks. That's a very common thing, 0:01:38.640 --> 0:01:40.440 and they don't want to let go of someone who's 0:01:40.520 --> 0:01:43.360 nice to them and looks good when they're around. So 0:01:43.400 --> 0:01:45.600 I think the whole I just focused on my career 0:01:45.959 --> 0:01:49.640 is actually what women tell themselves to console themselves when 0:01:49.640 --> 0:01:52.240 it doesn't go the way that they hope in a relationship. 0:01:52.640 --> 0:01:55.200 If I were giving advice to a young women, I 0:01:55.320 --> 0:01:58.680 tell them that they have less time than they think. 0:01:59.240 --> 0:02:02.120 And I get that they hear this elsewhere biological clock 0:02:02.160 --> 0:02:04.600 and all that, but that's not even what I mean. 0:02:05.720 --> 0:02:08.560 I mean, don't waste your time with people who you 0:02:08.680 --> 0:02:11.920 know aren't right for you. Just to have someone It 0:02:11.919 --> 0:02:14.960 could easily end up being five or ten years that 0:02:15.280 --> 0:02:18.880 shoot right by you. And yes, you'll look back at 0:02:18.880 --> 0:02:21.720 that time and you'll say, oh, I was building my career, 0:02:22.360 --> 0:02:25.440 But really you were tied up with someone who wasn't 0:02:25.480 --> 0:02:27.639 going to be the one for you. If you could 0:02:27.680 --> 0:02:31.560 figure that out early and leave yourself space and time 0:02:32.440 --> 0:02:35.400 to meet the person you actually want to marry, and 0:02:35.520 --> 0:02:38.639 please go ahead have the career too. You'll be in 0:02:38.680 --> 0:02:43.040 a much better spot than spending time with someone who's 0:02:43.120 --> 0:02:45.560 kind of a placeholder for the one you actually want. 0:02:45.919 --> 0:02:49.560 Thanks for listening. Coming up next and interview with Ian Haworth. 0:02:49.800 --> 0:02:51.000 Join us after the break. 0:02:54.280 --> 0:02:57.640 Welcome back to the Carol Markowitz Show on iHeartRadio. My 0:02:57.760 --> 0:03:02.240 guest today is Ian Howarth. Ian is a syndicated columnist, speaker, 0:03:02.360 --> 0:03:05.360 and podcast host. Hi, Ian, so nice to have you 0:03:05.400 --> 0:03:06.600 on CAYL. 0:03:06.680 --> 0:03:07.359 Thanks for having me. 0:03:08.040 --> 0:03:12.000 So I've been reading you for a long time, but 0:03:12.120 --> 0:03:15.640 I don't see any particular beat in your work except 0:03:15.680 --> 0:03:19.480 since October seventh. You've obviously covered a lot about Israel 0:03:19.520 --> 0:03:22.920 and Jewish issues. Did you have one like something that 0:03:22.960 --> 0:03:25.120 you particularly focused on before that? 0:03:26.080 --> 0:03:28.799 Anti Semitism was always one of my main focuses. It's 0:03:28.800 --> 0:03:30.919 actually how I got into this space in the first place. 0:03:30.960 --> 0:03:33.840 So for those listening who've never heard of me or 0:03:33.880 --> 0:03:36.120 haven't followed my work particularly long, it's cut used to 0:03:36.120 --> 0:03:38.160 work in I used to work in big tech before this, 0:03:38.400 --> 0:03:40.760 So before this stuff, I did the learned to code thing, 0:03:40.800 --> 0:03:45.040 but completely backwards. So I graduated from opposite university with 0:03:45.120 --> 0:03:47.440 bachelor's and masters in computer science. And the way it 0:03:47.480 --> 0:03:50.080 works in the UK is you do just one subject 0:03:50.120 --> 0:03:52.280 for your entire college experience. So I know people love 0:03:52.320 --> 0:03:54.320 to joke about, you know, you do like one art 0:03:54.360 --> 0:03:56.680 class here, you do a women's studies thing here, and 0:03:56.840 --> 0:03:59.000 all of these nonsense courses they made up. Now I 0:03:59.080 --> 0:04:01.600 just did one thing, which is good it makes you 0:04:01.640 --> 0:04:04.680 an expert in something, but also means you're really only 0:04:04.720 --> 0:04:08.320 qualified to do one thing. So I always knew I 0:04:08.360 --> 0:04:10.080 wanted to come to America. That was like one of 0:04:10.480 --> 0:04:13.040 one of my goals, one of my dreams. So after graduating, 0:04:13.440 --> 0:04:15.480 move over to Silicon Valley and was working as a 0:04:15.480 --> 0:04:17.720 software engine theer and a bunch of different companies, and 0:04:18.080 --> 0:04:19.960 I was actually at Facebook at the time. I worked 0:04:19.960 --> 0:04:22.760 at Facebook for about four years or so. And it 0:04:22.760 --> 0:04:25.400 was in twenty eighteen when it was the Pittsburgh Synagogue shooting, 0:04:25.920 --> 0:04:28.240 and I was looking around, you know, Silicon Valley, the 0:04:28.240 --> 0:04:31.920 Bay Area, California. It's very left wing, well the coastal 0:04:31.960 --> 0:04:34.240 areas of California are very left wing. And I was 0:04:34.279 --> 0:04:38.880 looking at all these supposedly tolerant, supposedly compassionate people, seeing 0:04:38.920 --> 0:04:43.120 what was happening and really either ignoring it or making 0:04:43.160 --> 0:04:46.320 it an attack on right wing people and using it 0:04:46.320 --> 0:04:48.680 as a weapon, and then really kind of snowballed there. 0:04:48.680 --> 0:04:50.760 I was like one of the few conservatives I knew 0:04:50.880 --> 0:04:52.960 in that area, and I thought, well, this might be 0:04:53.000 --> 0:04:54.960 a good opportunity for me just to speak out and 0:04:55.080 --> 0:04:57.800 provide a voice for right wing people in that space, 0:04:58.200 --> 0:05:00.240 and it just snowballed from there. So I too about 0:05:00.240 --> 0:05:02.839 antemptism a lot, but really I try and talk about 0:05:02.960 --> 0:05:05.960 any issue I think is important, because really everything is 0:05:06.000 --> 0:05:09.120 all encompassing. We like to focus on a single issue, 0:05:09.200 --> 0:05:11.760 I think, which makes sense if you're a journalist. I've 0:05:11.760 --> 0:05:13.599 never really seen myself as a journalist. I just like 0:05:13.640 --> 0:05:16.240 to talk about things I find interesting and important. I 0:05:16.560 --> 0:05:18.360 try and push the needle in the right direction. 0:05:19.520 --> 0:05:22.280 It's so interesting because I was writing about anti semitism 0:05:22.320 --> 0:05:25.400 a lot even before Pittsburgh. But Pittsburgh was the one 0:05:25.560 --> 0:05:28.520 anti Semitic attack that the people around me when I 0:05:28.560 --> 0:05:30.800 lived in Brooklyn did want to talk about because it 0:05:30.839 --> 0:05:33.680 appeared to be somebody, you know, a crazed right winger, 0:05:35.080 --> 0:05:38.800 and so that was the attack that they did kind 0:05:38.839 --> 0:05:43.039 of circulate opinions on, and the rabbi commented, you know, 0:05:43.040 --> 0:05:46.279 it's a local, like very leftist reform synagogue. But the 0:05:46.360 --> 0:05:48.920 other attacks that had been going on in Brooklyn for years, 0:05:48.960 --> 0:05:52.279 they didn't say a word because the perpetrators weren't wearing 0:05:52.360 --> 0:05:55.440 Maga hats. So it's funny that that's what spurred you 0:05:55.600 --> 0:05:59.440 into the political world. Do you ever miss, you know, 0:05:59.560 --> 0:06:00.400 the tech world. 0:06:01.760 --> 0:06:04.680 I do and I don't. I think I very much 0:06:04.760 --> 0:06:06.800 enjoy being my own person and just being able to 0:06:06.800 --> 0:06:08.520 say what I think. I think it's a real honor 0:06:08.520 --> 0:06:10.039 to be able to do that, to have a job 0:06:10.080 --> 0:06:12.160 that allows you to do that. I think a lot 0:06:12.200 --> 0:06:14.520 of people who think the same way as I do. 0:06:14.600 --> 0:06:16.960 I knew a lot of conservatives who worked in tech 0:06:17.000 --> 0:06:19.320 who worked in other industries. They have to keep their 0:06:19.360 --> 0:06:21.320 mouth shut, right, and so being able to be a 0:06:21.400 --> 0:06:24.159 voice for those people is really wonderful. I think I 0:06:24.200 --> 0:06:26.960 miss elements of it. I think every industry has its perps, right. 0:06:27.240 --> 0:06:29.039 It was amazing to work on some of the projects 0:06:29.120 --> 0:06:30.719 that you get to work with in that space, to 0:06:30.800 --> 0:06:33.200 work with some of the people, like the creativity. It's true, 0:06:33.240 --> 0:06:35.760 the sense of the world in terms of that area 0:06:35.920 --> 0:06:39.720 of innovation and things like that, but it's just what 0:06:39.720 --> 0:06:42.200 I'm doing now I find much more kind of motivating 0:06:42.440 --> 0:06:46.000 and much more rewarding on a personal level because I 0:06:46.040 --> 0:06:49.960 feel like, for me looking at it, my main goal 0:06:50.080 --> 0:06:52.720 was just to affect some kind of change, and positive change. Obviously, 0:06:52.800 --> 0:06:54.160 there's a lot of people out that are trying to 0:06:54.160 --> 0:06:56.559 affect any kind of change, just that negative, sure, whatever, 0:06:56.600 --> 0:06:58.719 don't get the clicks, But for me, it was always 0:06:58.720 --> 0:07:00.599 about the positive change. And I found that working in 0:07:00.600 --> 0:07:05.599 the software space, it wasn't something I truly loved. And 0:07:05.600 --> 0:07:07.720 I don't think everyone needs to find something they truly 0:07:07.760 --> 0:07:09.920 love in work because you get other things from it. 0:07:10.000 --> 0:07:12.360 But this was kind of a whole in my heart 0:07:12.400 --> 0:07:14.480 in a lot of ways, and it was something I 0:07:14.520 --> 0:07:16.680 was good at but didn't enjoy. And so I think 0:07:16.800 --> 0:07:18.760 doing this, you know, I'm still kind of finding my way. 0:07:18.920 --> 0:07:20.920 I'm compared to a lot of people, I'm relatively new, 0:07:21.600 --> 0:07:24.160 but I get a lot more enjoyment out of it, 0:07:24.160 --> 0:07:26.520 a lot more fulfillment out of it by changing someone's 0:07:26.560 --> 0:07:28.640 mind or something, or affecting a pace of change on 0:07:28.680 --> 0:07:31.360 something that truly matters, rather than just cranking out a 0:07:31.360 --> 0:07:33.840 product that someone else could do that job and I'd 0:07:33.880 --> 0:07:36.360 like to think that what I do only I could 0:07:36.400 --> 0:07:38.040 put out what I think in the way I do it, 0:07:38.080 --> 0:07:40.239 And I think that's true of everyone and their opinions. 0:07:40.240 --> 0:07:42.880 Everyone is unique in that way, and so I don't 0:07:42.920 --> 0:07:45.360 really miss it. There's obviously pieces I missed. The free 0:07:45.360 --> 0:07:48.600 food was pretty amazing, but otherwise, no, I'm pretty happy 0:07:48.600 --> 0:07:49.400 where I am right now. 0:07:49.560 --> 0:07:51.720 Yeah, we don't get free food in the podcast world, 0:07:51.760 --> 0:07:55.040 which I think is unfair. We really do need the 0:07:55.080 --> 0:08:00.679 free food. So you're doing something meaningful, and it's still 0:08:00.760 --> 0:08:04.440 a very hard subject to be covering. Do you feel 0:08:04.480 --> 0:08:08.720 optimism or We're recording this a few days after the 0:08:08.720 --> 0:08:11.360 return of the Bbis Family, and obviously it's been a 0:08:11.440 --> 0:08:16.240 very difficult time, really sad, kind of somber a few days. 0:08:16.800 --> 0:08:19.600 Do you have a sense of optimism right now or 0:08:19.840 --> 0:08:22.960 is it kind of bad times for the foreseeable future. 0:08:23.960 --> 0:08:26.640 I try and not look at it in those terms 0:08:26.680 --> 0:08:29.920 because I think it's somewhat unrealistic. Again, I don't want 0:08:29.920 --> 0:08:31.600 to say I'm just a realist, because I think that 0:08:31.680 --> 0:08:35.040 can be almost pessimistic within different branding. The way I 0:08:35.040 --> 0:08:37.240 try and look at it is just taking one step 0:08:37.280 --> 0:08:42.400 forward every single day and I have optimism for the 0:08:42.440 --> 0:08:45.000 people I think who are pushing the right ideas. I 0:08:45.000 --> 0:08:46.840 think there's a lot of Jewish people who have woken 0:08:46.880 --> 0:08:48.559 up and really been vocal and stood up in a 0:08:48.600 --> 0:08:51.800 way that I haven't seen in my lifetime. So I'm 0:08:51.800 --> 0:08:55.960 optimistic about that. I'm optimistic about Jewish communities fighting for 0:08:56.240 --> 0:08:57.880 their own right to stay on their own two feet 0:08:57.880 --> 0:09:01.760 and not be persecuted into the ground, which sounds like 0:09:01.840 --> 0:09:03.400 a normal thing that most people would do, but for 0:09:03.400 --> 0:09:05.520 a lot of Jewish communities in my lifetime, I've looked 0:09:05.520 --> 0:09:08.319 around and I've seen people shrink into the shadows and 0:09:08.840 --> 0:09:11.520 just let things go. And so I think I'm optimistic 0:09:11.520 --> 0:09:13.640 in that way. The way I approach things like an 0:09:13.679 --> 0:09:15.360 sempitism those I try and do it from a just 0:09:15.400 --> 0:09:18.840 a realistic perspective of trying to truly get through to 0:09:18.840 --> 0:09:20.920 people of the enemy we are facing and the evil 0:09:20.920 --> 0:09:23.680 we are facing, because I think you can find optimism 0:09:23.760 --> 0:09:26.840 and pessimism in everything, but it's very easy to be 0:09:26.840 --> 0:09:29.200 pessimistic in the face of what we're seeing, which is 0:09:29.320 --> 0:09:31.520 rampant ant semptism across the world and in the United 0:09:31.559 --> 0:09:34.880 States and on college campuses. But then I find that 0:09:34.920 --> 0:09:38.360 almost motivating because that just speaks to the importance of 0:09:38.360 --> 0:09:42.719 everyone stepping up. So I'm optimistic in a way if 0:09:42.720 --> 0:09:44.760 people keep making these steps. But it's something we have 0:09:44.840 --> 0:09:48.520 to keep moving forward. We have to keep approaching this 0:09:48.600 --> 0:09:51.000 with the same relentless that our enemies are doing, because 0:09:51.320 --> 0:09:53.240 one day we back off, one day we let it go, 0:09:53.679 --> 0:09:56.040 and then we're back to where we were before October seventh, 0:09:56.080 --> 0:09:58.200 and it will keep happening. So I know that's an 0:09:58.280 --> 0:10:01.760 unsatisfactory answer, it's how I feel. 0:10:01.960 --> 0:10:05.280 Yeah, I like that. Do you have a particular strategy 0:10:05.440 --> 0:10:07.920 for countering the arguments of the other side. 0:10:08.480 --> 0:10:10.720 I think it's going to be speaking honestly to the 0:10:10.960 --> 0:10:13.240 scale and the breadth of the issue, because I think 0:10:13.240 --> 0:10:15.080 a lot of people when they talk about an Semitism, 0:10:15.120 --> 0:10:17.440 as I mentioned before, they like to talk about what 0:10:17.520 --> 0:10:20.599 I call politically advantageous and Semitism. So you'll see a 0:10:20.640 --> 0:10:23.040 lot of right wing people talk about Elano, Oma, Rashida 0:10:23.080 --> 0:10:25.319 to leave. You know, they're really easy targets. They absolutely 0:10:25.320 --> 0:10:27.559 should talk about those people, and often people on the 0:10:27.600 --> 0:10:30.160 left you see them talking about white supremacists and Semitism, 0:10:30.240 --> 0:10:32.960 which again they should absolutely be talking about. But for me, 0:10:33.040 --> 0:10:35.400 I always am kind of calling on both sides to 0:10:35.400 --> 0:10:37.640 speak about the issue honestly, and that includes doing things 0:10:37.640 --> 0:10:40.600 that might not be so politically advantageous, you know. So 0:10:40.679 --> 0:10:43.320 when someone like Tucker Carlson, for example, comes out says 0:10:43.320 --> 0:10:46.400 something pretty broadline as semitic and sometimes not so bordline, 0:10:46.559 --> 0:10:47.800 and a lot of people who want to get on 0:10:47.800 --> 0:10:50.079 his show are just pretty quiet. But if you saw 0:10:50.160 --> 0:10:52.520 ilan Omar Rashida Sleeve say exactly the same thing, they 0:10:52.520 --> 0:10:54.760 would be up in arms cracking out content about it. 0:10:55.120 --> 0:10:56.920 And so I think for me, it's just about having 0:10:56.920 --> 0:11:00.120 that conversation honestly, do you care about Anthemitism or do 0:11:00.120 --> 0:11:02.400 you care about it? Is one as many tools to 0:11:02.559 --> 0:11:05.840 promote yourself or your brand or your political movement. And 0:11:05.880 --> 0:11:08.480 I think that's what I'm seeing a lot of positives 0:11:08.520 --> 0:11:11.000 in kind of the so called Jewish movement right now, 0:11:11.080 --> 0:11:13.840 is because it's really apolitical in a lot of ways. 0:11:14.760 --> 0:11:16.679 I've made a lot of connections with people that prior 0:11:16.679 --> 0:11:18.920 to walk to over seventh would never have spoken to 0:11:18.920 --> 0:11:22.080 me because I'm a gasp conservative, right, But I think 0:11:22.120 --> 0:11:24.240 now we're actually seeing people come together and realizing this 0:11:24.320 --> 0:11:26.760 is more than politics. So I think that's a great thing, 0:11:27.240 --> 0:11:27.640 that is. 0:11:27.760 --> 0:11:31.240 I actually have been so impressed with how many Jews 0:11:31.240 --> 0:11:33.360 have woken up. I still think there's so many more 0:11:33.440 --> 0:11:36.880 to go, obviously, but I've had so many friends who 0:11:37.320 --> 0:11:39.880 are awake and alert after October seventh in a way 0:11:39.880 --> 0:11:41.160 that they never had been before. 0:11:41.200 --> 0:11:43.520 And they always had seen that threat in. 0:11:43.480 --> 0:11:47.000 The distance, but never so close up. I guess my 0:11:47.200 --> 0:11:50.760 thinking on the anti Semitism of the right is it's 0:11:50.800 --> 0:11:54.160 a lot less obvious. I mean, forget about the you know, 0:11:54.200 --> 0:11:57.520 the crazy podcasters who say insane things, and you know 0:11:57.720 --> 0:12:00.480 the I don't know, the various people on the right 0:12:00.480 --> 0:12:02.320 who you know, some of them I never even heard 0:12:02.360 --> 0:12:04.679 of until they became anti Semitics. So it's kind of, 0:12:05.200 --> 0:12:07.680 you know, with the canvass Owens and whatever. I think 0:12:07.679 --> 0:12:09.920 the problem is that a lot of them, again not 0:12:10.400 --> 0:12:13.120 very obvious ones, with the rest sort of danced around 0:12:13.160 --> 0:12:15.880 the topic, and they're not very obvious in the way 0:12:15.880 --> 0:12:18.240 that the left is, and they don't say I don't 0:12:18.280 --> 0:12:21.840 want Israel to exist or you know, terrible things about 0:12:21.920 --> 0:12:26.000 Jews in particular. They kind of are much more vague 0:12:26.120 --> 0:12:28.360 than the left. So it gets to where people are like, well, 0:12:28.400 --> 0:12:32.360 what did they actually even say, how do you counter that? 0:12:33.240 --> 0:12:34.559 I think a lot of that is trying to take 0:12:34.559 --> 0:12:36.880 it on a case by case basis, at least in 0:12:36.920 --> 0:12:40.079 my experience of trying to work out the intent behind it, 0:12:40.200 --> 0:12:43.199 because I think sometimes there is just pure ignorance if 0:12:43.200 --> 0:12:46.319 someone says something off the cuff or without really meaning it, 0:12:46.360 --> 0:12:47.640 and then you actually get to the hearts of it, 0:12:47.720 --> 0:12:50.800 and usually those people come around they actually maybe learn 0:12:50.840 --> 0:12:53.120 something about Israel, they learn something about Jews, or they 0:12:53.200 --> 0:12:56.480 learn something about the history of antemitism that is motivating 0:12:56.520 --> 0:12:59.600 that thought. Then you have people who are genuinely hateful 0:12:59.640 --> 0:13:03.040 who just hate Jews for some unknown reason. There's always 0:13:03.040 --> 0:13:05.120 going to be hating the world, though, I think sometimes 0:13:05.120 --> 0:13:07.120 I don't like to make this just about Jews, because 0:13:07.400 --> 0:13:10.559 there is hate against all groups. That's just human nature, unfortunately. 0:13:11.040 --> 0:13:12.800 And then there's the middle ground of the people who 0:13:12.840 --> 0:13:15.080 are trying to kind of profit from both sides. I 0:13:15.080 --> 0:13:17.640 feel like those are the people who very carefully word 0:13:17.720 --> 0:13:23.840 what they are saying. I'm just asking questions, very questions, 0:13:24.120 --> 0:13:26.840 because I almost respect the people who are genuinely hateful 0:13:26.920 --> 0:13:28.800 more than the people who are just kind of playing 0:13:28.840 --> 0:13:32.880 this cowardly game where they're trying to attract the people 0:13:32.880 --> 0:13:35.280 who are ignorant, they're trying to pander to the people 0:13:35.280 --> 0:13:38.439 who are hateful, but they're also trying to leave an 0:13:38.600 --> 0:13:41.319 escape route. Essentially, when they do get called out or 0:13:41.360 --> 0:13:44.600 they do get at least questioned on their ridiculous views, 0:13:44.679 --> 0:13:47.280 and they say, oh, I wasn't Actually I don't agree 0:13:47.280 --> 0:13:49.360 with these people. I'm trying to proper from I'm not 0:13:49.400 --> 0:13:53.160 like them. I'm just asking questions. I find that quite exhausting. 0:13:53.200 --> 0:13:55.040 I stay away from those people because I don't think 0:13:55.080 --> 0:13:59.240 they're genuine I find much more success in reaching the 0:13:59.280 --> 0:14:02.040 people who genuinely hate me or her genuinely anger, and 0:14:02.120 --> 0:14:05.560 I don't think those people are I don't want to 0:14:05.640 --> 0:14:07.120 necessarily say it this way, but I don't think those 0:14:07.160 --> 0:14:09.560 two people are as bad as the people who are 0:14:09.600 --> 0:14:11.960 playing both sides because I don't know what you mean. Yeah, 0:14:12.080 --> 0:14:15.440 fully knowing what they're doing. But I think someone who's hateful, 0:14:15.480 --> 0:14:17.360 you can reach them. You've just got to get to 0:14:17.400 --> 0:14:20.000 the root of their hate. And it's something I think 0:14:20.000 --> 0:14:21.800 we should all be spending time on. Obviously, there are 0:14:21.800 --> 0:14:23.760 some things who cannot be reached. There's a lot of 0:14:23.760 --> 0:14:25.800 people on the edge that if you just reach out 0:14:25.840 --> 0:14:28.000 to them with love and kindness, you can make a 0:14:28.040 --> 0:14:28.680 huge difference. 0:14:29.120 --> 0:14:32.640 Yeah. My co author of the book I wrote, Stolen Nuth, 0:14:32.680 --> 0:14:35.760 Bethany Mandel, she once wrote an article about how we 0:14:35.800 --> 0:14:39.120 should be trying to convince neo Nazis like away from 0:14:39.240 --> 0:14:42.480 neo Nazism, and it gets thrown in her face all 0:14:42.520 --> 0:14:45.040 the time, like people are constantly like tweeting that article 0:14:45.080 --> 0:14:46.840 back at her, like how dare you have said this? 0:14:47.160 --> 0:14:50.560 And then a few years ago, of course aoc A 0:14:50.640 --> 0:14:53.920 Passio Cortez she said the same thing, and that became 0:14:54.000 --> 0:14:55.880 an okay thing to say, Like, if you have family 0:14:55.920 --> 0:14:58.840 members drifting into this kind of hate, you know, try 0:14:58.840 --> 0:15:01.200 to try to get them back, try to argue points 0:15:01.200 --> 0:15:03.720 with them, try to show them love and be like 0:15:03.800 --> 0:15:05.320 I still love you and I just want you to 0:15:05.800 --> 0:15:10.240 come back to reality. It's tough, though, when you are 0:15:11.360 --> 0:15:14.520 trying with these people who hate you. But I agree 0:15:14.560 --> 0:15:17.920 with you that they're a lot more honest than the 0:15:18.040 --> 0:15:21.600 dancers what I call the dancing around the reality that 0:15:21.760 --> 0:15:26.440 just asking really stupid questions crowd. And it's interesting that 0:15:26.520 --> 0:15:29.840 you find those people kind of more reachable. 0:15:31.120 --> 0:15:34.960 Yeah, And because I think someone can make a mistake 0:15:35.000 --> 0:15:37.320 of logic or a mistake of emotion, and that can 0:15:37.320 --> 0:15:39.840 build an entire platform for a bunch of different views. 0:15:40.120 --> 0:15:42.480 But if you get to that route, it's actually pretty 0:15:42.480 --> 0:15:44.880 easy to solve. I you see this all the time 0:15:44.880 --> 0:15:47.720 of people who've been hateful. Let's say, you know radical 0:15:47.760 --> 0:15:49.720 Islamic terrorists who have come back, and now they speak 0:15:49.720 --> 0:15:52.080 out against radical Islam and terrorism, and no one is 0:15:52.120 --> 0:15:54.640 locked into their ideology. I think all these people can 0:15:54.720 --> 0:15:57.000 be reached. You've always got to pick your battles, because 0:15:57.000 --> 0:15:58.400 there are some people who are way too deep that 0:15:58.520 --> 0:16:01.040 it's actually quite dangerous to try and reach them. But 0:16:01.080 --> 0:16:02.880 then there's all these people on the fringe who if 0:16:02.920 --> 0:16:05.120 you just leave them to the whims of the extreme, 0:16:05.680 --> 0:16:07.720 then they're going to go somewhere. I think that's the 0:16:07.760 --> 0:16:09.920 problem I've seen in a lot of media when people 0:16:09.920 --> 0:16:11.760 speak to, for example, young men, there's a lot of 0:16:11.920 --> 0:16:16.160 people are very dismissive and quite I think nasty in 0:16:16.160 --> 0:16:18.520 a way of just like laughing at people who feel lost, 0:16:18.520 --> 0:16:21.400 who don't feel supportive, who don't feel like someone truly 0:16:21.440 --> 0:16:24.040 listens to their issues, and sure their issues compared to 0:16:24.080 --> 0:16:26.000 other people's issues might not be as bad, or they 0:16:26.080 --> 0:16:28.000 might have an easier time of it by nature of 0:16:28.000 --> 0:16:30.080 their skin color, which you can have a whole can 0:16:30.080 --> 0:16:32.200 of worms debate over. So that doesn't mean their problems 0:16:32.200 --> 0:16:35.120 aren't important. And then we're surprised when people like Andrew 0:16:35.160 --> 0:16:37.600 Tait and Dan Bazeri and all these people rush in 0:16:37.640 --> 0:16:39.480 to fill the void. You know. It's like people are 0:16:39.480 --> 0:16:42.320 complaining that these people have an audience while also ignoring 0:16:42.360 --> 0:16:44.640 their audience. And I think that's a really important thing 0:16:44.640 --> 0:16:47.040 that everyone needs to understand, is that if you mock people. 0:16:47.400 --> 0:16:49.560 We've seen this in politics, we've seen in culture. If 0:16:49.560 --> 0:16:51.720 you mock people and bully them, you can't then be 0:16:51.720 --> 0:16:53.960 surprised when they go somewhere where they are they are 0:16:53.960 --> 0:16:57.920 not mocked and bullied. It's like a very simple human 0:16:57.960 --> 0:17:00.480 response is to go somewhere where you feel supported. The 0:17:00.520 --> 0:17:03.480 problem is that being supported by people who don't actually care, right, 0:17:03.680 --> 0:17:04.119 That is. 0:17:04.040 --> 0:17:06.960 The that is the issue where we're pushing these people away, 0:17:07.080 --> 0:17:10.600 or they're being pushed away and falling into the arms 0:17:10.600 --> 0:17:11.800 of people waiting. 0:17:11.520 --> 0:17:12.240 To accept them. 0:17:12.320 --> 0:17:15.840 It's it's a tough, tough situation. We're going to take 0:17:15.840 --> 0:17:17.960 a quick break and be right back on the Carol 0:17:18.000 --> 0:17:24.280 Marcowitch show. What do you worry about? What's like on 0:17:24.320 --> 0:17:27.639 your mind when you are you know, what's your general worry? 0:17:29.119 --> 0:17:31.840 Ask a neurotic jew what they worry about? How long 0:17:31.920 --> 0:17:35.760 you have? I think the highest level thing I worry 0:17:35.760 --> 0:17:37.960 about beyond you know, my own life and you know, 0:17:38.000 --> 0:17:40.800 my own family and that kind of thing is I 0:17:40.840 --> 0:17:44.880 think our society taking what we have for granted and 0:17:45.840 --> 0:17:48.320 returning to what has been the norm for the vast 0:17:48.320 --> 0:17:52.080 majority of human kind, which is pain and suffering and tyranny, 0:17:52.119 --> 0:17:53.920 all these kind of things. And it's not just political, 0:17:53.960 --> 0:17:56.880 it's like a it's a very it's a very cultural 0:17:56.920 --> 0:18:00.159 thing too. Western culture is good. I feel like we're 0:18:00.160 --> 0:18:02.920 constantly fighting this battle of people who want to tell 0:18:02.960 --> 0:18:05.160 you that all cultures are equal New Slash. They are 0:18:05.160 --> 0:18:08.280 not the idea that Western culture is in some ways 0:18:08.920 --> 0:18:10.960 far worse than the other. No. Western culture has given 0:18:11.000 --> 0:18:15.000 us all the best things in humankind, and there's obviously 0:18:15.000 --> 0:18:17.800 always room to improve. We're not a perfect civilization. That's 0:18:17.840 --> 0:18:20.240 true of all humans ever. But I think everyone takes 0:18:20.240 --> 0:18:22.760 the granted for what we have. They take for granted 0:18:22.800 --> 0:18:25.520 the peace we have post World War Two. The peace 0:18:25.560 --> 0:18:29.520 we have is as a result of the massive, unimaginable 0:18:29.520 --> 0:18:33.760 sacrifice that people in their teens and twenties made in 0:18:33.800 --> 0:18:37.439 the thirties and forties, that I couldn't see people today 0:18:37.440 --> 0:18:40.040 making that same sacrifice. I saw people losing their mind 0:18:40.040 --> 0:18:42.360 of not being able to buy toilet paper at quite 0:18:42.400 --> 0:18:45.480 the same level what they did the year before. And 0:18:45.520 --> 0:18:49.240 that's what I worry about, is because a civilization that 0:18:49.280 --> 0:18:51.200 doesn't respect what we have and the history or what 0:18:51.280 --> 0:18:52.960 we have and why we have it, I think is 0:18:53.000 --> 0:18:57.640 doomed to just descend into the norm for humans, which 0:18:57.680 --> 0:19:01.879 is suffering and poverty and not having access to basic things, 0:19:01.920 --> 0:19:04.520 and not having the basic rights that have become the 0:19:04.560 --> 0:19:06.360 norm for us, but only the norm because we made 0:19:06.400 --> 0:19:09.280 it so. So I think that's that's my high level 0:19:09.320 --> 0:19:10.480 worry beyond the personal. 0:19:11.359 --> 0:19:13.280 Do you miss Britain at all? 0:19:14.640 --> 0:19:18.600