Speaker 1: Of the law and order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.
Speaker 2: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 2: vicious felonies.
Speaker 3: These episodes are based on. These are our stories.
Speaker 4: Done done.
Speaker 1: Hi, Welcome to That's Messed Up, an SVU podcast.
Speaker 2: I'm Kara Klank and I'm Liza Traeger. We're talking SVU.
Speaker 2: We're talking crimes, and then we have celeb guests. It's
Speaker 2: really a jam packed podcast and I listen, I have
Speaker 2: a lot to say.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we have a lot of like random things to
Speaker 1: talk about this morning, this one today.
Speaker 2: Like So for me, I would like to say I
Speaker 2: have hung out with members of the band Lamb of
Speaker 2: God two times in one week now, and I got
Speaker 2: to go to the Rainbow Room, which is like a
Speaker 2: metal rock and roll bar with people that are in
Speaker 2: a popular metal band and sit in like a booth
Speaker 2: where guns of Roses sat. So I felt excited. It
Speaker 2: was thrilling. Thank you Frank Castillo for knowing the drummer.
Speaker 1: I would love somebody to go to our Apple podcast
Speaker 1: reviews and leave a review like they won't stop name
Speaker 1: dropping Lamb of God, like that you went out with a.
Speaker 3: Metal band.
Speaker 1: I love this name drop because I don't know who
Speaker 1: this is. When she told me, I was like, oh nit,
Speaker 1: are they a band? Like I was a full mom.
Speaker 1: And then I asked Jared and my husband and he
Speaker 1: was like, oh, awesome, like he loves metal and they're
Speaker 1: they're well.
Speaker 2: Because my friend Frank is such a stoner and is
Speaker 2: in the weed. Like I assumed they were weed guys.
Speaker 2: But one does have a long gray beard and long
Speaker 2: gray hair, so I should have put it together that
Speaker 2: maybe metal was in his life. But then I ended
Speaker 2: my evening terribly with a cut tree fried steak in
Speaker 2: the middle of the night.
Speaker 3: What makes a steak country fried? Is it like breaded?
Speaker 2: It's breaded and fried baby served with hash browns, pancakes
Speaker 2: and eggs.
Speaker 3: Shit, And we all got it.
Speaker 2: I kind of like when you go to a restaurant,
Speaker 2: everyone gets the same thing, Like that's that's what.
Speaker 3: We don't mind group mind. Yeah.
Speaker 2: But anyway, so very Hollywood, and it's tough because I'm
Speaker 2: trying to work on myself in lots of different avenues
Speaker 2: and it's like I want to be more social but
Speaker 2: then treat my body better, and it's like you can't
Speaker 2: do both. Yeah, if you're someone who can treat your
Speaker 2: body well and be social, that's not the fun I
Speaker 2: want to have.
Speaker 3: I'm not bowling sober for sure.
Speaker 1: I mean you want to have fun, but then it's
Speaker 1: also really hard to be healthy or I don't know,
Speaker 1: have children. Everything is difficult. I but I was jealous
Speaker 1: when I heard about your fun night out. I never
Speaker 1: get to quote. If I'm up at four am, it's
Speaker 1: because I'm feeding someone a bottle. So it's exciting that
Speaker 1: you get to rock and roll.
Speaker 3: Rock and roll is exactly.
Speaker 2: I was actually gonna go back because because I had
Speaker 2: some yogurts delivered, I had like groceries at the house,
Speaker 2: so they were all going to go out, and I
Speaker 2: was like, I think I'm gonna head home. And my
Speaker 2: friend looked at me and went, we're going We're going
Speaker 2: out with Lamb of God. Like you're right, what am
Speaker 2: I I'm gonna go home to get my groceries and
Speaker 2: salad kits Like no, I'm going.
Speaker 3: So what happened with the grocery sitting there when you
Speaker 3: got home?
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course one yogurt is missing, but I'm just
Speaker 2: gonna get a reef. I don't think anyone took the yogurt,
Speaker 2: but I was excited to have a maple yogurt.
Speaker 3: Maple is an underused flavor that I It.
Speaker 1: Was also quite chilly out yesterday, so I'm sure your
Speaker 1: food stayed nice and fresh.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I wasn't worried. And someone is trying to
Speaker 2: stress me out. They're like, what about raccoons. I'm like,
Speaker 2: I'm not stressed about it, and I don't know why
Speaker 2: you're trying to make it.
Speaker 1: I don't really think we have the same kind of
Speaker 1: raccoon issue in LA because sometimes, like my we'll put
Speaker 1: our trash out on our patio and I'm like, Jared,
Speaker 1: I'm worried about raccoons, and he'll leave it there all night,
Speaker 1: and we don't have raccoon bites or anything, So I'm
Speaker 1: not I don't think.
Speaker 3: That's a thing.
Speaker 2: I just watched a video on my phone of a
Speaker 2: person's window in their and like three raccoons trying to
Speaker 2: get in, like pawing at the window, like wanding into
Speaker 2: the apartment.
Speaker 3: All those raccoons are I.
Speaker 1: Love a raccoon in theory. They're little hands. I think
Speaker 1: it's oh yeah, they look like little burglars, but like,
Speaker 1: aren't they like vicious.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but they prank cats like they're just their garbage.
Speaker 3: People raise them as pets, didn't Kirsty Ali.
Speaker 1: And we had to read Kirsty Ali's book for a
Speaker 1: podcast that we will uh we will disclose to you
Speaker 1: at a future time.
Speaker 3: But like, uh, she like had pet raccoons.
Speaker 2: I think if you're raising raccoons, you have problems. And
Speaker 2: I don't care if you're a raccoon a razor out there,
Speaker 2: you're a weird.
Speaker 3: You have to admit you're weird.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, So I wanted to really quickly bring something
Speaker 1: up today on the podcast because a couple of listeners
Speaker 1: have contacted us, and this is something that we're pretty
Speaker 1: into that we like to call out when there's women
Speaker 1: on death row unnecessarily or unfairly, and there is a
Speaker 1: I just want to bring attention to this case that's
Speaker 1: happening right now.
Speaker 3: This woman is named.
Speaker 1: Melissa Lucio, and uh, we're going to post it on
Speaker 1: our stories. But essentially, this woman has, like as so
Speaker 1: many women do, a horrible history of abuse and sexual
Speaker 1: assault and violence in her life. And she had a
Speaker 1: two year old daughter who died in an accident falling
Speaker 1: down a flight of stairs and then she was interrogated
Speaker 1: by police for hours and hours and hours on end
Speaker 1: until she just said, I guess I did it. And
Speaker 1: now she's on fucking death row and she had nothing
Speaker 1: to do with her her daughter's death, and it's really
Speaker 1: fucking unfair. And I'm really hoping that they can because
Speaker 1: I think she says there is this this is in Texas,
Speaker 1: and she's set to be executed at the end of April,
Speaker 1: so like many judges have said that this trial was unfair,
Speaker 1: so I'm really hoping that they're going to be able
Speaker 1: to commute her sentence. But it is Texas, so who
Speaker 1: fucking knows. But anyway, we're going to put a link
Speaker 1: to this on the Instagram. But I just wanted everyone
Speaker 1: to go and like sign the petitions, go to Innocence Project,
Speaker 1: Like just google her name Melissa Lucio. We'll put the
Speaker 1: petition on our thing. I just wanted to bring some
Speaker 1: light to that because we do talk about that all
Speaker 1: the time.
Speaker 2: So what happened, Yeah, I want to I definitely have
Speaker 2: to catch up on that because I don't know and
Speaker 2: that makes me really upset.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a really tough story and I'm sorry to
Speaker 1: go right from your fun night with Limb of God
Speaker 1: into that, but such is the intro to this podcast. Also,
Speaker 1: I wanted to shout out that I've talked about You're
Speaker 1: wrong about before the podcast that I like, and they
Speaker 1: just did an interview this week or are they're One
Speaker 1: of the most recent episodes is about junk science and
Speaker 1: a lot of it has to do they mentioned SVU,
Speaker 1: like a lot of it has is all about the
Speaker 1: junk science around crime, and like blood spatter is mostly
Speaker 1: junk science, like fingerprint evidence is like kind of not proven.
Speaker 1: Like there's all this interesting stuff. So I'm not even
Speaker 1: done with the episode. I just wanted to shout it
Speaker 1: out and say if people are interested, it's kind of hey,
Speaker 1: but are these things admissible in court or not? Or
Speaker 1: is it just to help solve the crimes for detectives
Speaker 1: or does this blood splatter or spatmatter? Does the we
Speaker 1: read the messages blood spatter like, so are people using
Speaker 1: it in court or not? Basically, it's like what they're
Speaker 1: talking well, you got to listen to the whole episode,
Speaker 1: but what she's talking about is like there's definitely a
Speaker 1: lot of the times this is like a certification course
Speaker 1: that someone can take to become quote unquote an expert
Speaker 1: in that. But like it's like it's not always yes,
Speaker 1: an expert can walk onto a crime scene and say, okay,
Speaker 1: judging by the pool of blood here, probably this person
Speaker 1: was attacked from behind. It's just not always completely accurate
Speaker 1: and crazy. Something that they talk about is breathalyzers are
Speaker 1: incredibly inaccurate, and people are getting fucking DUI's left and
Speaker 1: right across this whole country. It's a whole industry of DUI's,
Speaker 1: like DUI lawyers breath alized, like this whole thing. And
Speaker 1: it's like there can be I think there's something like
Speaker 1: a forty percent inaccuracy rate in breathalyzers, and that's just
Speaker 1: like the science that we've accepted and it's not accurate.
Speaker 1: So it's a really really cool episode that I think
Speaker 1: people need to listen to.
Speaker 3: I was always taught you never blow. Yeah, I wouldn't
Speaker 3: blow if I got pulled over, Absolutely not. You give
Speaker 3: them nothing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, if we learned anything that's not junk science, you
Speaker 2: give them nothing. And then we obviously have to talk
Speaker 2: about the most SVU crime that's ever happened in twenty
Speaker 2: oh my God, I don't even know if SVU would do,
Speaker 2: would go this far, but go on, a teacher and
Speaker 2: her weird boyfriend cop husband put jiz sperm in some
Speaker 2: cupcakes and gave them to the children, and they are
Speaker 2: in jail. But the New York Post was sallacious and
Speaker 2: it said that she got forty one years for feeding
Speaker 2: the cum cupcakes, which I thought was excessive. But I
Speaker 2: was then told by better sources Kara, my friend Steve
Speaker 2: last night, Josh that they were found with a bunch
Speaker 2: of child sex abuse images and then like assaulting teens together.
Speaker 2: So yeah, it's barbecular style. But how did they find
Speaker 2: out about the sperm cakes? Like, That's what I don't understand,
Speaker 2: Like who told on them? Did they brag about it?
Speaker 2: Did a kid know it was jizz? That's bad too.
Speaker 1: I wonder if she gave that information to the cops
Speaker 1: for leniency, like if she was like, hey, he made
Speaker 1: me do this or whatever, and then that story got
Speaker 1: out because it's so fucking psycho and sallacious.
Speaker 2: You know, Yeah, Okay, Louis admits she admitted doing it.
Speaker 2: Why is it always the Post every article that's I
Speaker 2: don't think every source lets to cover it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, if you're talking about jiz cakes, you're talking about
Speaker 1: the New York Post. I mean, like that's who's talking
Speaker 1: about it, you know, like that's where you're gonna get.
Speaker 3: Your number one source in jiz news.
Speaker 2: And she, I think, is going to turn him, and
Speaker 2: like the Post was saying, she's gonna prove what a
Speaker 2: monster he is. So we'll see what kind of abuse
Speaker 2: this cop is about.
Speaker 1: But ugh, yeah, I mean it's tough because it's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: she could be abused, like she could be a victim herself.
Speaker 2: But like but and then I was talking to someone.
Speaker 2: I don't know, it could have been you. I don't
Speaker 2: know where who I was talking to. But they're like
Speaker 2: the sick part too, is she just sat there watching
Speaker 2: the kids eat the sperm cakes like she liked that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like because the husband probably wasn't there for that,
Speaker 1: So even if he forced her to bring in come
Speaker 1: laced cupcakes, she could have thrown them away, you know.
Speaker 1: Was he like send me video of them eating it,
Speaker 1: like it's like weird.
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, she pled guilty. She admitted to her crimes
Speaker 2: and pled guilty, waived any right to appeal.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Oh they filmed a juvenile bathing. I don't know.
Speaker 2: Forty one years is just so much. But it's also deesah.
Speaker 1: Because she's like thirty six, so she would be like
Speaker 1: seventy seven coming out of jail. It is effect it's
Speaker 1: like not a life sentence, but it's not.
Speaker 3: But maybe she.
Speaker 1: Would get time off for good behavior. It's like, is
Speaker 1: there no, is there? There is probably possibility of parole, right.
Speaker 3: I don't know, but she also like.
Speaker 2: She is a danger to society and yeah, yeah, you know,
Speaker 2: can you trust her? She's feeding sperm to the children.
Speaker 3: That is so fucking gross.
Speaker 1: This is gonna be an SVU. There's no way they
Speaker 1: can't do this.
Speaker 2: Oh my Lamb of God voice, it's going do you
Speaker 2: guys hear the cracks.
Speaker 3: To stay out in La? So four am is like
Speaker 3: pretty great.
Speaker 1: That is fun because La is an earlier town. It's
Speaker 1: not like Chicago or New York. You know wait, I
Speaker 1: wanted to also bring up this is so funny, but
Speaker 1: like I thought that you might appreciate this because of
Speaker 1: your cookie jar obsession. Yeah, so a listener wrote into
Speaker 1: us and said that they for wedding gifts will give
Speaker 1: something called a nookie jar, and they it's a cookie jar,
Speaker 1: but you're supposed to put money in it every time
Speaker 1: you fuck, I guess, and that your friends give it
Speaker 1: to you, and they started out with some money in it,
Speaker 1: and then I don't know, like maybe you use it
Speaker 1: to buy something cool at the end. Anyway, I just
Speaker 1: thought you might think that the nookie jar was something.
Speaker 3: I do think that's cool. I do think that's cool. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I love any sort of fun money saving tricks.
Speaker 1: Yeah, fucking for funds everyone.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I wonder, yeah, what motivates what? Yeah?
Speaker 1: And then maybe you like look in it at the
Speaker 1: end of the year, you're like, we should have more
Speaker 1: money in here.
Speaker 3: Let's get going. You know who knows.
Speaker 1: And obviously we also are so thrilled with everybody's response
Speaker 1: to our tour announcement. I'm so excited that so many
Speaker 1: of you have already bought tickets for Tempe and Denver
Speaker 1: and Portland and Seattle and all of our California cities.
Speaker 3: Please keep buying them.
Speaker 1: Everyone that's telling us to come to their city, we
Speaker 1: definitely want to come to your city. We have to
Speaker 1: like do well at these cities so that we can
Speaker 1: move on to other cities. So if you know people
Speaker 1: that live in these cities, please tell them to come
Speaker 1: and check us out.
Speaker 2: Business is hard, like stringing together venues after COVID.
Speaker 1: It's just like it's kind of a bonker. Everything is
Speaker 1: bonkers every Yeah. It's also like it is a full
Speaker 1: bottleneck of like nobody's performed in two years, and now
Speaker 1: everybody's going out on the road, like podcasts, comedians, fucking magicians,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Like everyone's going out on
Speaker 1: the road. So it's like we're all kind of Joe
Speaker 1: do Days. Yeah, yeah, fucking Joe Gorga, Like all these
Speaker 1: people are doing stand up or doing you know, some
Speaker 1: kind of live performance. So we obviously want to come
Speaker 1: to you know, New York, Chicago, all these places you
Speaker 1: guys are telling us about.
Speaker 3: We want to come so make our West Coast Tora success.
Speaker 1: But one thing I wanted to point out was somebody
Speaker 1: that was buying tickets for the Portland show noticed that
Speaker 1: on the map of the theater or the Aladdin where
Speaker 1: we're playing in Portland, there's something in the top corner
Speaker 1: called a cry room. And we posted it on our
Speaker 1: Instagram because we were like, oh, this is like funny,
Speaker 1: like a cry room. And then we started getting all
Speaker 1: these messages from people that are like, my church has that,
Speaker 1: my church has that, like Mormon's Catholics. All different people
Speaker 1: wrote us and said, our church has these crimerooms. I've
Speaker 1: never heard of this. I don't know Jews in synagogue,
Speaker 1: we did not have a cry room to take a
Speaker 1: kid that's acting up. And some of them said that
Speaker 1: even in the cry room, they'll be like a veed
Speaker 1: of the ceremony of the Mass, so that the parents
Speaker 1: can still like participate in church even when their kid
Speaker 1: is acting God forbid a little bit. Yeah, wouldn't want
Speaker 1: to miss a hymn. So I just thought that was wild,
Speaker 1: that that's a thing that exists.
Speaker 3: I've never heard of it.
Speaker 1: Obviously, we're two Jews, and I don't think that there
Speaker 1: are cry rooms in a synagogue. So no, no, just
Speaker 1: coatrooms for all the bar metzvahs. I guess you could
Speaker 1: throw your kid into one of those.
Speaker 3: I might have an adult bought mitzvah.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, that's a great throwing it out there,
Speaker 1: that's a great fucking idea. But we have to dress
Speaker 1: like we would have dressed when we were thirteen, going
Speaker 1: your ah mitzvah, like I want to wear like a
Speaker 1: fucking off the shoulder dress that like poofs out, like
Speaker 1: the shit I used to wear to bar mitzvahs. It
Speaker 1: was so high pressure when I was in middle school
Speaker 1: and going to bom Mitzva's and bar mitzvahs if you
Speaker 1: wore the same dress. I remember I wore the same
Speaker 1: dress to one and somebody was like, didn't you wear
Speaker 1: that to Daniels? And I was like yeah, like and
Speaker 1: then I was like, mom, I gotta I gotta get
Speaker 1: new dresses, Like I can't wear the same dress twice
Speaker 1: because you would get like ridicule.
Speaker 3: Yeah, peer pressure is so annoying.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because Penn fifteen covered it so well with the
Speaker 2: gift in the necklace and the bot Mitzvah, they really
Speaker 2: are able to take these like emotions from junior high
Speaker 2: and make them so cringey and good to watch.
Speaker 3: They like get into our hearts.
Speaker 1: I haven't watched the last eight episodes that just came
Speaker 1: out a few months ago because I'm truly like too
Speaker 1: sad that it will be over.
Speaker 3: Well.
Speaker 2: Hopefully this won't give you too much away, but one
Speaker 2: episode maya realize it is that she's like, wait, are
Speaker 2: I poor, and suddenly she starts realizing that she might
Speaker 2: be poor and like can't afford to get these gifts.
Speaker 2: But the girl doesn't even care. But I wish in
Speaker 2: that moment you had the knowledge to be like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I did, yeah, and you know, like it's there's all
Speaker 2: these little comebacks where if I wish you could go
Speaker 2: back in the time and.
Speaker 1: Well, of course, like I wish I could have been like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I wore it once three weeks ago. Who cares, Like
Speaker 1: I wish, you know, but like obviously you're you melt
Speaker 1: into a puddle of embarrassment because you need your mom
Speaker 1: to take you to Macy's to get another fucking floral dress.
Speaker 1: Oh man, I would love for you to have an
Speaker 1: adult bot mitzvah. That would be so fucking fun. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think I'm gonna do it when you get dancers
Speaker 1: like you know how Camille Grammar used to be like
Speaker 1: one of the MTV dancers. I would go to bot
Speaker 1: mitzvahs that had the MTV dancers like on the dance
Speaker 1: floor to rile people up like hype men crazy.
Speaker 3: I knew a hype man. Oh, I mean, Rene Gotier
Speaker 3: was famously a barmetzva hype person.
Speaker 2: Rene Gote famously has one of the best bodies I've
Speaker 2: ever seen in my life.
Speaker 3: Is that harassment? Oh I've actually listening.
Speaker 1: Nay, nay, Okay, I think that was all I had
Speaker 1: on my list to talk about. But yeah, guys, go
Speaker 1: to that s messed up live dot com and get
Speaker 1: tickets for the tour. We're gonna, obviously just keep pushing
Speaker 1: it for the next few weeks. So sorry, I get
Speaker 1: used to it. Is there anything else, Lisa that you
Speaker 1: wanted to touch on?
Speaker 2: No, I'm hanging on by a thread, counting every second
Speaker 2: till I can lay down again.
Speaker 1: Okay, but we have an awesome episode for you guys,
Speaker 1: so to stick right around. This episode is Bedtime season eleven,
Speaker 1: episode eighteen. If you've already done your homework, you know
Speaker 1: this is a Neil Bear classiek from twenty ten, so
Speaker 1: let's dive into it. We open on a guy on
Speaker 1: the phone going can't wait to see you too, in
Speaker 1: the guiltiest way possible. And this man then throws clothes
Speaker 1: at his girlfriend who's standing there in her bra and
Speaker 1: he's like, my wife, she's two minutes away, and it's like, dude,
Speaker 1: you need to like take ten deep breasts because you're
Speaker 1: already busted just from the way you were just talking
Speaker 1: on the phone to your wife and.
Speaker 3: Yesid, Like what do you say that you were doing? Yeah, yeah, sorry,
Speaker 3: I'm working out and I.
Speaker 1: Just I can't wait to see you, Like it is
Speaker 1: so weird. And the side chick is, like, you said
Speaker 1: she was at work, and he goes bitch like her,
Speaker 1: she probably got fired, and it's like, okay, bro, but
Speaker 1: you're like fully cheating on your wife in your own
Speaker 1: home in the middle of the day, So who's the
Speaker 1: real bitch here? And so he tells his side chick
Speaker 1: to like go out the window down the fire escape
Speaker 1: and it's snowing. She's wearing like ugs, sweatpants and some
Speaker 1: big coat sweater and a bra, so her shirt is
Speaker 1: definitely still in the apartment and that's just a detail
Speaker 1: I noticed. And her name is Angie, and Angie's like,
Speaker 1: why can't.
Speaker 3: We just use this as an opportunity to come clean
Speaker 3: about us, Like this would be great.
Speaker 1: Let's just let her come home and find me in
Speaker 1: my bra and we'll just talk it like it's hilarious.
Speaker 1: And then this man is I mean, obviously a huge coward,
Speaker 1: and it's like not no, just go go go. Shoes
Speaker 1: are away down the firescape and then we hear Angie
Speaker 1: go she's dead and love her. Boy's like okay, well,
Speaker 1: don't make threats about death, and he's like, no her,
Speaker 1: and then the camera cuts to Angie's POV and we
Speaker 1: see a woman face down on a mattress, hands tied
Speaker 1: behind her back, lying in a pool of blood with
Speaker 1: an X carved into her cheek.
Speaker 3: Gruesome, gruesome. Yeah, I don't like scarface things.
Speaker 2: I think that's yeah, I've been learning in the past
Speaker 2: few episodes and yellow.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't.
Speaker 2: I don't need to see a crime blood face. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but thank you jes.
Speaker 1: You for the regular just like you know, choked out
Speaker 1: purple face that they show people.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well I also hated when they had the little baby
Speaker 2: under a like the more sheet and I was like,
Speaker 2: I don't like the even the hint of a little.
Speaker 3: Baby on the slab that.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I didn't love that either. Yeah, not great. I didn't
Speaker 2: love the injection into the thumb. There are just some
Speaker 2: moments that her too much.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So we cut to Stabler. He's at the crime scene.
Speaker 1: The woman that's lying face down on the bed. Is
Speaker 1: named Jane Whitmore. She's thirty years old. There's no sign
Speaker 1: of force entry, so Live is like, she probably knew
Speaker 1: the guy. Olivia looks gorgeous here, like just the first
Speaker 1: shot of her, I'm like, wow, she looks so beautiful,
Speaker 1: shoulder length hair, natural, subtle highlight.
Speaker 3: I'm loving it.
Speaker 1: And our girl Melinda Warner's there and she tells them
Speaker 1: that the guy probably carved the ex post mortem. There's
Speaker 1: no fibers, no fluids, and the purp left nothing behind,
Speaker 1: so it's like a little bit slow going. Immediately, Stabler
Speaker 1: obviously loves to go through people's papers and effects, and
Speaker 1: he's like.
Speaker 3: Verry, Missy Maloney's a misty.
Speaker 1: Yeah, check the trash, check the trash.
Speaker 3: Always check the trash.
Speaker 1: And he guesses immediately that she I wonder sorry to
Speaker 1: interrupt you, but I do wonder when my Yellow Jacket's
Speaker 1: fever will calm down. I like, well, I think we'll
Speaker 1: be able to track it on this podcast. I think
Speaker 1: that probably our viewers will be like, hey, Lisa didn't
Speaker 1: mention yellowjackets this week, and we'll be like, ah, the
Speaker 1: fever has cool. So Stabler's going through her papers, and
Speaker 1: he guesses that she's an investigative journalist, and because he
Speaker 1: sees that she was recently paid from Under Scrutiny magazine,
Speaker 1: which I just think is a hilarious name for a magazine,
Speaker 1: and her laptop is missing, so maybe the purp wanted
Speaker 1: to kill her story too, Stabler wonders and then credits.
Speaker 1: So now we're at under Scrutiny mag and Jane's editor
Speaker 1: is bummed to hear about her death and says that
Speaker 1: she was the best freelancer she ever had. She loved
Speaker 1: dangerous assignments, she loved going undercover. She infiltrated a sex
Speaker 1: trafficking ring, she dated a heroin dealer and almost got
Speaker 1: hooked on it because she had to shoot up for
Speaker 1: the story.
Speaker 3: And she said that the last story she.
Speaker 1: Was working on was like a Bernie Madoff type guy,
Speaker 1: and Jane was going to take him down. This guy
Speaker 1: like ripped off all these people and then ended up
Speaker 1: getting eight months in jail and then kind of basically skated,
Speaker 1: So not the same.
Speaker 3: As Bernie made Off, who you know, died in custody.
Speaker 1: But they go visit this man and he is now
Speaker 1: a running a pet funeral parlor. So he's moved away
Speaker 1: from his like financial crimes and is a pet funeral
Speaker 1: parlor director, which makes.
Speaker 3: Them so mad. And I don't get why they're really
Speaker 3: like this. Well imagine I don't know.
Speaker 1: It's like, imagine Bernie made off if he was like, hey,
Speaker 1: check out my Etsy store or something like that, Like
Speaker 1: he ripped off so many people. He ruined so many
Speaker 1: people's lives. If he got off and was just like,
Speaker 1: here's my new business. I think everybody just hates him.
Speaker 2: Yeah, as long as it's him, because it's like, okay,
Speaker 2: well you want him on the street, like he's gonna
Speaker 2: get another job, right, And I don't maybe it doesn't
Speaker 2: matter what business he had they would hate. But they
Speaker 2: just this pet cemeteries drove them and they.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah Stablers, like what do you just sell people
Speaker 1: a bunch of fake ashes and an overpriced earn like
Speaker 1: Stabler's assassin it up big time.
Speaker 3: But when they bring.
Speaker 1: Up Jane to this guy, he's like, that bitch threw
Speaker 1: herself at me and when she found out I had
Speaker 1: gone legit, she dumped me. So I guess maybe this
Speaker 1: man has turned over a new leaf. But he said
Speaker 1: the last time he talked to Jane. She wanted the
Speaker 1: name of the sober living house that he had gone
Speaker 1: to after prison, and he tells the cops that it's
Speaker 1: called Harmony Home and that it's a pit. The women
Speaker 1: turn tricks, the men use it as a crack then,
Speaker 1: quote unquote, and so now they're like, okay, let's go
Speaker 1: sniff around at Harmony Home. So they're there and the
Speaker 1: guy running it is like a journalist. I thought she
Speaker 1: was a basehead. And it's pretty funny that, like, obviously,
Speaker 1: do you think you'd be able to spot a journalist?
Speaker 3: And then.
Speaker 1: Maloney's like, well, I thought this place was supposed to
Speaker 1: help people. Looks like we both got duped. So they're
Speaker 1: assassing this man a little bit, and it's pretty funny.
Speaker 1: He says Jane lived at that house for like ten days,
Speaker 1: and then that she had a little cupboard. He's like,
Speaker 1: she had a cupboard full of food, but I never
Speaker 1: saw her eat. So they break into her little cupboard
Speaker 1: and she has some nice ass groceries, organic imported pasta.
Speaker 1: You know, Benson knows the brand, and she goes this girl,
Speaker 1: it gets better groceries than me, and it's like better
Speaker 1: than you, Benson.
Speaker 2: When is she even home. There's no way she even
Speaker 2: has groceries.
Speaker 3: When is Benson.
Speaker 1: I know, I know Benson. It's like you you eat takeout?
Speaker 1: Come on, She's getting an egg and cheese every morning?
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, but she did.
Speaker 3: I think she's going to the bodega before work. I do, yeah,
Speaker 3: for like a banana. Okay.
Speaker 1: So then a girl with really gross hair and skin
Speaker 1: and teeth walks in and is like.
Speaker 3: A scooped bagel.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And this girl is like, hey, that stuff don't
Speaker 1: belong to you. And then Stabler flashes her badge and
Speaker 1: she's like, yeah, I've seen fake badges before. Like she's
Speaker 1: really sassing them hard. I keep saying sassing, but she's yeah,
Speaker 1: she's very tweaky, and you know, we can tell why
Speaker 1: she's in this house. And she says, Jane shares her
Speaker 1: food with me and tells them that her name is
Speaker 1: Francine and they're like, well, guess what, honey, foods all
Speaker 1: yours now, and she's like twitterly telling them like she's
Speaker 1: like I took Jane under my wing, like she said
Speaker 1: she was like us, but I could tell she was green,
Speaker 1: And I told her who to talk to.
Speaker 3: I told her how to protect her shit like whatever.
Speaker 1: So she says, Jane didn't talk to anyone except maybe
Speaker 1: the grabby jerk in welfare. You want your benefits, you
Speaker 1: gotta let that guy's stick his tongue down your throat,
Speaker 1: which is so nasty. And then the last time she
Speaker 1: saw Jane, she was on her way to talk to
Speaker 1: that dude. So now we're at the precinct and we're
Speaker 1: getting the rundown on this dude. Ned Bogden played by
Speaker 1: William Atherton, who is a character actor with like eighty
Speaker 1: nine credits. This is his only SVU. Weirdly, but he's
Speaker 1: been in original recipe. This dude's been on murder, she wrote,
Speaker 1: like he's been in all kinds of shit anyway. Ned
Speaker 1: Bogden is fifty four single. Uh, Liz's lucky number fifty four.
Speaker 1: He's single and lives in Queen's with his mother. Not
Speaker 1: lucky and live is like that's suspicious right there, and
Speaker 1: I just like love her judging this man so hard
Speaker 1: for still living.
Speaker 2: Well, things were different back then, and like now living
Speaker 2: with your parents is kind of whatever because of the
Speaker 2: pandemic and crash and you know, just yeah, the environment,
Speaker 2: I don't know, but back in the day, you couldn't
Speaker 2: live with your parents.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and at fifty four, that's that's real late in
Speaker 1: the game.
Speaker 3: Unless they're living with you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're living with you, you're caring for them. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So this guy, they look him up and he's just
Speaker 1: got like no complaints in a thirty year career, which
Speaker 1: Benson is immediately like, what, like nobody has no complaints,
Speaker 1: you know. She's like, I've got complaints. And there's just
Speaker 1: tons of accolades in his file, like he's won like
Speaker 1: you know, awards from the mayor and shit, and so
Speaker 1: it's weird. And Craigan's like, I don't know, guys, are
Speaker 1: we gonna like put this all on the word of
Speaker 1: a junkie, Like if we take a swing and a
Speaker 1: miss at this guy, it's gonna fuck us and lives
Speaker 1: like so confident she goes so we won't miss boom.
Speaker 1: Then we cut to the Welfare benefits bureau, where we're
Speaker 1: up close on Benson's Converse high high tops, and then
Speaker 1: we pan up we see some jeans. She's in a
Speaker 1: tank top and a hoodie and we know immediately know, Okay,
Speaker 1: Benson is acting.
Speaker 3: Now, she's doing her.
Speaker 2: Undercover I think this is also her best undercover work
Speaker 2: of this This is the most convincing.
Speaker 3: You know, it wasn't like Daddy like, yeah, yeah, it's good.
Speaker 1: It is convincing, But to me, her teeth give it
Speaker 1: away immediately.
Speaker 3: She has perfect teeth, and.
Speaker 1: I'm just like, I don't know, are you a druggy?
Speaker 1: Like I mean, she's basically saying her boyfriend was a
Speaker 1: druggie and then like he kicked her out of the
Speaker 1: house and that like she has no money to buy food.
Speaker 1: She's fucked, and like, you know, the guy should have
Speaker 1: just clocked that this was a cop because.
Speaker 3: She has perfect teeth. But anyway, he's like, good thing
Speaker 3: you have.
Speaker 2: But with someone that hot, and he's a molestor, like
Speaker 2: he I think you're hair, but you everything goes at
Speaker 2: the window. You're just like, oh I get to molest Benson,
Speaker 2: you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't think a man
Speaker 2: that's horny is about to notice the little things. But
Speaker 2: at the same time, predators also son know who to
Speaker 2: groom and stuff, So you know, I don't know, but
Speaker 2: yes she is. She's giving us some good acting, so
Speaker 2: I'll let it slide. But he's like, good thing.
Speaker 1: You found me. I'm your night in shining Armor. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna help you, no problems. So he gives Live a
Speaker 1: form to fill out, and then he immediately goes to
Speaker 1: his door and starts to shut the blind So if
Speaker 1: this man had Matt Lower's money, he would have had
Speaker 1: that automatic door lock thing, but instead he has to
Speaker 1: go and manually shut his blinds.
Speaker 3: Live is acting overwhelmed by the paperwork. She's like, I
Speaker 3: don't know, what does this mean? Less employer?
Speaker 1: I don't know, And so he's like leaning over her
Speaker 1: and he's just like, do everything I say, and I
Speaker 1: guarantee you're going to get your check. And he's like
Speaker 1: really grossly holding her shoulder, saying that's a good girl.
Speaker 1: It's really nasty, Like they did do good casting here
Speaker 1: because this guy seems like his breath would smell and
Speaker 1: like it's bad. And she's like, oh, my last job,
Speaker 1: and she starts writing special Victims Unit, and then right
Speaker 1: as she says unit, this guy like honks her boob,
Speaker 1: and so she she jumps up, grabs them like swim,
Speaker 1: swings them around and has them over the desk in
Speaker 1: like two seconds. And she's like, oh, did I forgot
Speaker 1: to mention that and she's like cuffing him, and he goes,
Speaker 1: you're a cop, and Live goes and you're a creep
Speaker 1: and like then you know that's the end of act
Speaker 1: one and I was dying for that. So now they're
Speaker 1: in interrogation with Ned bogged in and they're grilling him
Speaker 1: and he's like, I help these women.
Speaker 3: I'm their savior.
Speaker 1: Of course they're going to come on to me, and
Speaker 1: I've turned down every advance and Lives like, okay, so
Speaker 1: how about you pawing my tits And he's like, I
Speaker 1: can't help it if you moved the wrong way. But
Speaker 1: he's got like he's got like a look in his
Speaker 1: eye like he's definitely guilty. And they're like, you tried
Speaker 1: to do this to Jane. You found the wire. She
Speaker 1: was going to expose you, so you killed her. And
Speaker 1: he's like, wow, what a story. Like he's pretty confident
Speaker 1: that he can talk his way out of this. And
Speaker 1: then Cragan and Huang are watching through the window and
Speaker 1: Craigan has this light bulb moment where he's like, do
Speaker 1: you recognize this m o like of carving the X
Speaker 1: into the cheek? I don't know why, it's just coming
Speaker 1: up to him. Now they've had this dead body for
Speaker 1: a day or so, but he's like, yeah, like this
Speaker 1: is a case I remember from thirty years ago. So
Speaker 1: as they're walking through Bogden go through everything that they
Speaker 1: think he did, we see Cragan looking over all of
Speaker 1: these cases with crime scene photos of female victims that
Speaker 1: look exactly like Jane how she was found tied up
Speaker 1: hands behind the back on a bed x cut into
Speaker 1: the cheek. And these victims are all from the seventies
Speaker 1: and this guy was called the bedtime Butcher. He killed
Speaker 1: five women, attack them all in bed between nine pm
Speaker 1: and midnight, carve them up. And Cragan's buddy worked on
Speaker 1: the case but never found the guy, and he has
Speaker 1: since died of a heart attack. So now they're like, well,
Speaker 1: we're going to figure this out if this guy is
Speaker 1: the bedtime Butcher. So they go through all the old
Speaker 1: files and Live is like this guy killed from nineteen
Speaker 1: seventy three to nineteen seventy six. Serial rapists don't just
Speaker 1: like stop cold Turkey and bad Wong aka Huang is like, well,
Speaker 1: some do if they find another outlet to channel their rage.
Speaker 1: And they're like like, oh, he got hired at this
Speaker 1: Welfare Bureau in seventy six, so he didn't need to
Speaker 1: rape and kill anymore because he could just take advantage
Speaker 1: of all these vulnerable women at his work and never
Speaker 1: get in trouble.
Speaker 2: And with like murders signatures, I wonder, do they like
Speaker 2: fantasize and get horny for this specific thing? Does it
Speaker 2: come out natural? Like how do patterns even occur?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's like the ex is like you or
Speaker 1: definitely want people to know that you're doing all of
Speaker 1: these you know. Like so anyway, there's no DNA for
Speaker 1: any of these five victims because there wasn't DNA in
Speaker 1: the seventies. So Huang's like, you gotta find this guy
Speaker 1: ned Bongdon's connection to all these victims and they all
Speaker 1: must have set him off in some way to like
Speaker 1: get his rage going. So they go through all the victims,
Speaker 1: and this guy did have a connection to all of them.
Speaker 1: One was a rich lady he had worked a catered
Speaker 1: party for and she'd been like, you know, bossy to him.
Speaker 1: One was a rich parent at a school that he's
Speaker 1: subdad who tried to like get her daughter in Harvard
Speaker 1: through you know, like elbow rubbing or whatever. One got
Speaker 1: a postdoc that he applied for, and another was a
Speaker 1: woman that would beat him at running in a road
Speaker 1: running club that they were in.
Speaker 3: So they're naming all these victims on a bit.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like just a man that feels inadequate that
Speaker 1: has to kill any woman that he thinks feels more
Speaker 1: powerful than him. So he says, okay, well, your whole
Speaker 1: case falls apart if one chain link in the chain
Speaker 1: falls apart. And I don't know this. Emily Cutler, one
Speaker 1: of your victims that you brought up. I happened to
Speaker 1: know that when she died, when you told me she died,
Speaker 1: I was at a men's retreat in Cheyenne, and I
Speaker 1: can prove it. And then in walks Melinda Warner with
Speaker 1: a great entrance, and she goes, can you prove you
Speaker 1: didn't leave Dandriff all over Jane Whitmore's body Boom goes
Speaker 1: the dynamite, and Olivia is like, he's got his jacket
Speaker 1: sitting right there, probably covered in Dandriff, And Olivia's like,
Speaker 1: we got you, motherfucker, and they take his jacket away
Speaker 1: and he's like, well, I had sex with her, but
Speaker 1: I didn't kill her. I didn't kill any of those bitches.
Speaker 1: I was in Cheyenne.
Speaker 3: It's just pretty funny.
Speaker 1: So and if you don't know, if you I haven't
Speaker 1: watched this episode and you're just watching along with us,
Speaker 1: this is like one of the wildest fully two different
Speaker 1: crimes in one it's two full episodes almost in one episode.
Speaker 1: So at the lab, Melinda confirms that the dandriff DNA
Speaker 1: matches and it's all over the other victim's clothing as well,
Speaker 1: and he's had this problem of shedding and dandriff for
Speaker 1: a while. So the case is closed except for Emily Cutler.
Speaker 1: Warner thinks he was really maybe in Cheyenne because he
Speaker 1: had no dandriff on her and that when she went
Speaker 1: through or when she investigated all the evidence and stuff
Speaker 1: from the Emily Cutler murder, she said that Emily was
Speaker 1: a redhead and she found one blonde hair on her nightgown,
Speaker 1: so the hair was degraded, so there was no DNA,
Speaker 1: but done done. It's a woman, So holy shit, Now
Speaker 1: we're looking for a woman who murdered a copycat. A copycat,
Speaker 1: so somebody who killed Emily Cutler and made it look
Speaker 1: exactly like the bedtime butcher so boom boom boom, ned
Speaker 1: Bogden is the Bedtime Butcher case clothes. He's going down
Speaker 1: for all these murders, but the Emily Cutler case is
Speaker 1: still open. And obviously this copycat, you know, use the
Speaker 1: Bedtime Butcher to cover her tracks. And Olivia's like, I
Speaker 1: never would have thought it was a woman. And Stabler's like,
Speaker 1: try missing an anniversary, and it's like, Elliott, Kathy's just
Speaker 1: stay at home mom with your forty seven children. Take
Speaker 1: her out for your anniversary and don't forget you dumb ass.
Speaker 2: I know, I like how the women are too out
Speaker 2: of control and angry for something like that, but you're
Speaker 2: not the asshole for missing this big thing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, write it on a calendar and it's the same
Speaker 3: time every year. Don't be a dumbassy.
Speaker 1: So Emily Cutler's husband was a man named Cal Cutler,
Speaker 1: but was more commonly known as the Mattress Maestro. And
Speaker 1: they pop in a VHS of an old seventies commercial
Speaker 1: of this mattress salesman who's like dressed as a cowboy.
Speaker 1: He's got a cowgirl like like flibbertygibbet girl with him.
Speaker 1: She's slapping his ass I'm sorry. He's slapping her ass
Speaker 1: and she loves it. And it's very seventies and apparently
Speaker 1: he was like a local celeb in the seventies. Stabler
Speaker 1: remembers the commercials being on all the time, and to me,
Speaker 1: if I'm gonna put this into my own world, this
Speaker 1: is like the Grand.
Speaker 3: Prospect Hall in Brooklyn.
Speaker 1: Do you remember that commercial, Lisa, Yes, so, yeah, that's
Speaker 1: like to me, I think if the Grand Prospect Hall
Speaker 1: people came up in a murder, I'd be.
Speaker 3: Like, I know these people, you know? I thought of
Speaker 3: like eagleman, I don't know that. Is that a Chicago thing?
Speaker 3: Look at those Loo low rates.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was like this stuffed like puppet bird and
Speaker 2: this eagle would come out and it was really Yeah,
Speaker 2: local commercials are the best.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're so funny.
Speaker 1: So they discovered that the year leading up t Emily
Speaker 1: Culer's murder, the couple Emily and cal Culor had a
Speaker 1: dozen or so domestic disputes. Cal was a big cheater,
Speaker 1: and it's funny how thematically the episode opened with a
Speaker 1: guy cheating too. I don't know if the writers did
Speaker 1: that on purpose, but.
Speaker 3: Never noticed that. Yeah, anyway, they like let's go talk
Speaker 3: to Cal. They can't. Cal is dead. He died in
Speaker 3: a drunk driving accident and burned to death out.
Speaker 2: Burning is one of the scariest. Yeah, that's a bad way.
Speaker 3: It's not good. No, burning is tough.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So they decide to track down the cop who
Speaker 1: responded to all these domestic disturbances, and her name is
Speaker 1: Susan Delzio. So they go knock, knock, knock it on
Speaker 1: Susan Delzio's door, and who answers but icon of the seventies,
Speaker 1: eighties and beyond, Jacqueline Smith, one of the Charlie's Angels.
Speaker 1: You definitely have seen her face before. She clocks them
Speaker 1: as cops right away. She goes, oh, cops, and they're like,
Speaker 1: can we talk to you for a second. We want
Speaker 1: to ask you about the like some of your cases.
Speaker 1: And so she calls back into apartment and goes, Pedro,
Speaker 1: I'm stepping out for a second. We don't see Pedro,
Speaker 1: but he's a painter. Because she's telling Benson is Stabler
Speaker 1: that she took up sculpture after she retired from the
Speaker 1: police force, and that she's converting one of her bedrooms
Speaker 1: into a studio Benson's like, good to know there's life
Speaker 1: after the job.
Speaker 3: And it's like sculpture, Okay, I hope you have there's
Speaker 3: more than that for you. Well, no, it's it's big now,
Speaker 3: you know.
Speaker 2: Seth Rogan is ceramics, ceramics and sculpting vases.
Speaker 3: It's in. It's in.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the pandemic people wheeling and dealing with clay.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And if you're old enough to buy your own
Speaker 1: I mean, if you're rich enough to buy your own kiln,
Speaker 1: I guess that's good for you.
Speaker 3: Yeah. His life just seems the best.
Speaker 2: Him and his wife just like get high, chill out,
Speaker 2: make vases, pet their dog.
Speaker 3: Right now, it's like the dream life. I'm obsessed.
Speaker 2: One day I will recognize them and only talk to
Speaker 2: Lauren and pretend I don't know who's Seth Rogan.
Speaker 3: That's a great idea. Now I'm obsessed with everyone.
Speaker 1: So they're like, do you recall this guy cal cut Cutler,
Speaker 1: And she's like, ugh, the mattress, maestro, how could I forget?
Speaker 1: It was the first celeb I ever met. I was
Speaker 1: right out of the academy. His wife called us pretty
Speaker 1: much every weekend, which is about as often as color
Speaker 1: changed girlfriends, and she said that women would show up
Speaker 1: at their house like breaking flower pots, like you know,
Speaker 1: putting a bombs in the mailbox, like all kinds of
Speaker 1: random stuff and saying that Emily didn't deserve Cal, and
Speaker 1: he would just basically.
Speaker 2: Can you imagine that, like the hottest, coolest celebri in
Speaker 2: here is a mattress salesman.
Speaker 1: I think also, this guy just seemed like he was
Speaker 1: like a horn dog, and women were really drawn to
Speaker 1: him for some reason because it's like the mattress shit's
Speaker 1: not doing appealing or equal like none nothing.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but when you look at him in the commercial,
Speaker 1: you can kind of see you in the seventies.
Speaker 3: He'd be like a hot guy.
Speaker 1: I guess that like babes would be like, oh, I
Speaker 1: bet he's got mattress money, and there's probably a lot
Speaker 1: of like come test out my mattress pickup lines or whatever.
Speaker 3: So anyway, so.
Speaker 1: She says that Cal would say, like just get the
Speaker 1: women out of here, and would never press charges against
Speaker 1: them because he knew that they were all of his,
Speaker 1: you know, side pieces. He wasn't probably trying to get
Speaker 1: them arrested. Susan's like, I don't have any names. I
Speaker 1: ditched my memo books a long time ago. But she
Speaker 1: said every week it was a new one, always blonde,
Speaker 1: always builts, which I think she just means big tits.
Speaker 1: And the last call that she got wasn't to the house.
Speaker 1: It was to his studio where he was shooting a
Speaker 1: commercial and one of the blondes got through security and
Speaker 1: had slapped Emily Cutler. She said, oh, there was also
Speaker 1: an older woman there too, really bossy. It was cal
Speaker 1: Cutler's agent and her name was maud Monahan, an amazing name.
Speaker 1: We know Neil Beer probably came up with that name.
Speaker 1: And so now we're at the office of Maud Monahan.
Speaker 1: We've got black and white headshots as far as the
Speaker 1: eye can see. And this woman, yes, she's played by
Speaker 1: Renee Taylor, who is a comedian slash actress, slash writer
Speaker 1: who I guess was in The Nanny, which I'm sure
Speaker 1: you looking. I'm like, you're why is The Nanny not written? Yeah,
Speaker 1: because I can.
Speaker 3: Remember some of those stuff. So I knew she was
Speaker 3: in The.
Speaker 1: Nanny, and I knew that you that was gonna be
Speaker 1: your way into her. I don't didn't watch The Nanny,
Speaker 1: but she holds up. Oh, I would love to. And
Speaker 1: I know it just came out.
Speaker 2: Of HBO Max and that holds up. It is a
Speaker 2: joke a second, Like and the butler and like, uh,
Speaker 2: the woman that works for mister Sheffield are so mean
Speaker 2: to each other. The banter amazing. There's so many horny jokes.
Speaker 2: The kids are funny, like it's so good, and her
Speaker 2: outfits alone and the jew elements and and Renee Taylor
Speaker 2: is a big part of the funny.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So she's like this classic actress of you know, the
Speaker 1: last decades. But she's also been nominated for an Academy
Speaker 1: Award for writing like she's she used to write things
Speaker 1: with her husband, her late husband, Wait hold on.
Speaker 2: It says she's a voice in Bob's Burger's. And I
Speaker 2: wonder if she plays the sister. I wonder if she's
Speaker 2: Linda Linda Belcher, not Linda, the Linda's sister.
Speaker 1: What's her Linda's sister? I think is Megan Malali? Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: you're right here, yeah yeah. But but Renee Taylor is
Speaker 1: also in a movie that I'm obsessed with from my
Speaker 1: youth called Delirious with John Candy, and he plays like
Speaker 1: a writer who basically writes himself into his own like
Speaker 1: soap opera, and it's like, and she is in that movie.
Speaker 1: So I wanted to point that out in case anyone
Speaker 1: else is a delirious fan out there never even heard
Speaker 1: of it. Oh it's right, John Candy. I mean, I
Speaker 1: think I've seen all his movies. I love him so much.
Speaker 1: But maud Monahan happens to remember the exact three blondes
Speaker 1: who are especially batshit about cal Cutler, and she points
Speaker 1: out their headshots because they're all up on her wall.
Speaker 1: She's like, this is Jenny Coswald, Claire Lockton, and Rita Wills.
Speaker 1: And Rita Wills looks like she's topless in her headshot,
Speaker 1: and I respect that. So then the cops track down
Speaker 1: the women and were kind of cutting between all these women.
Speaker 1: So Jenny Coswald is played by Susan Anton, who was
Speaker 1: on Baywatch and is like another sort of like icon
Speaker 1: from the seventies and eighties, and she's at her daughter's
Speaker 1: birthday party and she's like, yeah, I was a young
Speaker 1: dumb ass. He said he'd leave his wife for me,
Speaker 1: got me into bed, then he dumped me. Then they
Speaker 1: go to Claire Lockton, played by Morgan Fairchild, another icon
Speaker 1: and is now a high She's now a high powered
Speaker 1: lawyer and is like, please keep this hush hush. I
Speaker 1: don't want my firm to find out. But she admits
Speaker 1: I hated Emily Cutler. She made cal write a letter
Speaker 1: to me breaking it off with me. And then finally
Speaker 1: they go talk to Rita Wills, the one who slapped
Speaker 1: Emily in the face at the TV studio, and it's
Speaker 1: Anne fucking Margaret, Bye Bye, Bertie a million other things.
Speaker 1: She's huge and she goes, wow, the bitch was keeping
Speaker 1: us apart. She plays this part amazingly. It's really fun
Speaker 1: to watch and like the rest of them, like the
Speaker 1: other two women are like, god, I was dumb, Like yeah,
Speaker 1: I didn't like the woman, but like my life has
Speaker 1: moved on for sure, and Rita Wills is like, yeah,
Speaker 1: that was the love.
Speaker 3: Of my life. Like and it is just so sultry
Speaker 3: and funny.
Speaker 1: Really cut back to Morgan Fairchild explaining that she's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: when Emily died, that was a wake up call for me.
Speaker 1: I stopped acting. I went to law school. Susan Anton
Speaker 1: is like, we were all so dumb. I treated his
Speaker 1: wife badly and then Anne Margaret goes, I regret nothing.
Speaker 1: Those commercials were my big break. It's just a really
Speaker 1: classic like top ten I think SVU guest Stars of
Speaker 1: all time. Stabler asks them all for DNA, and we
Speaker 1: see Jenny go of course and say don't mind at all,
Speaker 1: and then we see Rita flirting with Stabler goes, oh,
Speaker 1: and for you, I'll even say uh and like opens
Speaker 1: her mouth like so sexually Distabler and it's really it's
Speaker 1: like yikes, but it's so funny. So now back at
Speaker 1: the precinct, they're reviewing the women with Huang and Susan
Speaker 1: and she's like, well, Jenny's the one that spit at
Speaker 1: me and Rita slapped me one time, and all of
Speaker 1: these women have like clear records, like none of them
Speaker 1: even has a parking ticket, and Stabler goes, well, Rita
Speaker 1: is cuckoo for Coco Pops, which is you know, overused
Speaker 1: at this point, but in twenty ten, maybe that was
Speaker 1: a newer joke.
Speaker 2: But also Stabler's not hip, so even if it wasn't
Speaker 2: trending or it was hackey, he is like.
Speaker 3: You're right, he would say that next week go o see.
Speaker 3: He would stay it next week, goan O. See you're right.
Speaker 1: So then Melinda killing it with all of her mattresses
Speaker 1: comes in and they're like another walk on, perfect walk on,
Speaker 1: and she goes, we found blood other than Emily's on
Speaker 1: the mattress and it is done, done Rita's So now
Speaker 1: we don't see the other two women again. Now we're
Speaker 1: focusing on Rita. At Rita's place, she comes to the
Speaker 1: door holding a huge Martini glass and she looks absolutely
Speaker 1: hammered and I'm truly just loving everything about her. She
Speaker 1: thinks she thinks stables there to fuck basically, and then
Speaker 1: when Olivia shows up, she's like, oh, a threesome.
Speaker 3: I can get down with that. It's really funny.
Speaker 1: They accuse her of killing Emily and she's like, okay,
Speaker 1: that's a funny story and tries to walk back into
Speaker 1: her apartment and when they arrest her, like when they
Speaker 1: go to grab her, she smashes her martini glass against
Speaker 1: the door and starts screaming, her hair is disheveled. This
Speaker 1: is a really great arrest. And then suddenly she totally
Speaker 1: flips in his very docile and is.
Speaker 3: Like, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. It's really funny.
Speaker 1: So now, I mean, can you even believe the ned
Speaker 1: Bogden part like of this episode, Like we're in just
Speaker 1: a totally another world here. It's just this episode takes
Speaker 1: such a left turn to a totally different case and
Speaker 1: I love it. So in interrogation, Rita's going, I'm a
Speaker 1: little drunk, I'm sorry, and then she pulls out a
Speaker 1: flask and starts adding booze to her coffee cup, and
Speaker 1: I just love how much she parties. And they tell
Speaker 1: her that they found her blood on call and Emily's mattress,
Speaker 1: and she's like, oh, you found my blood on the mattress.
Speaker 3: Well, I can explain that.
Speaker 1: And then she's like Cal hated Emily and she knew
Speaker 1: all about all these other women, but she would never
Speaker 1: leave Cal. And she describes how she and Cal had
Speaker 1: like this, you know, epic sex on their bed, and
Speaker 1: that Cal wanted Emily to walk in on them and
Speaker 1: find them, but her friend came early and stable her
Speaker 1: dumbass is like your friend, and live goes she got
Speaker 1: her period, and so it's just very funny to me.
Speaker 3: This stabler doesn't get that.
Speaker 1: Rita goes, yeap b bled everywhere and it just must
Speaker 1: have soaked through the mattress. I was so embarrassed, but
Speaker 1: Cal told me to get rid of the sheets, and
Speaker 1: guess what, I saved them go to my apartment and
Speaker 1: you can find them right there. So they get to
Speaker 1: her apartment and I don't know if this is surprising
Speaker 1: or not, but it is a Cal Cutler shrine, and
Speaker 1: there's like full cutouts of him everywhere.
Speaker 3: His commercial is playing on the TV like on a loop.
Speaker 1: She's got scrap books of like articles about him and
Speaker 1: like letters. And then Stabler finds the period sheets, like
Speaker 1: fully folded up, tied with a ribbon and just period
Speaker 1: stain up and it's really funny to see like a
Speaker 1: picture of Stabler holding period sheets. I will screenshot it
Speaker 1: and put it on the.
Speaker 3: Goes I found the sheets.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And then Olivia starts thumbing through her diaries, Rita's diaries,
Speaker 1: and she finds this last entry in one that says
Speaker 1: I killed for you, Cal, and now you should burn
Speaker 1: in hell or something like that. And then two weeks
Speaker 1: later Cal burns to death in a car accident. So
Speaker 1: a lot of things are coming together here for Stabler
Speaker 1: and Benson. So Stabler, back in interrogation, like throws the
Speaker 1: diary onto the table and Rita wakes up because she's
Speaker 1: face down on the table and she says, that confession
Speaker 1: isn't what you think. I wasn't confessing to killing Emily.
Speaker 1: I was confessing to killing my baby. So basically, she
Speaker 1: found out that she was pregnant two weeks after Emily died.
Speaker 3: Cal didn't want the baby.
Speaker 1: He said it was too soon after Emily was gone
Speaker 1: and that people would talk.
Speaker 3: He told her to get rid of it.
Speaker 1: So she did get an abortion even though she didn't
Speaker 1: want to, and got an infection in her uterus that
Speaker 1: left her unable to have kids because Cal had wanted
Speaker 1: her said just get an abortion and we'll have kids later.
Speaker 1: That's what he had promised her, and then the abortion
Speaker 1: he made her get left her.
Speaker 3: Honey, I wonder was fucking these girls? Like, I know,
Speaker 3: I don't get it.
Speaker 1: I guess he was getting a lot of practice because
Speaker 1: he was doing it a lot. And Cal said it
Speaker 1: was God's plan about what happened to her uterus and
Speaker 1: then dumped her. So, you know, so then they're like,
Speaker 1: so you killed him and she's like, yeah, I did,
Speaker 1: and they're like oh okay. They're like, oh, we're getting
Speaker 1: our confession now, and then she's like, I made cal
Speaker 1: meet me one more time. We met at a bar
Speaker 1: and we got drunk and we started fighting and we
Speaker 1: got kicked out, and then they fought and he drove off,
Speaker 1: and they're like, well, didn't you say you killed him.
Speaker 1: She's like, I did kill him. If he was so drunk,
Speaker 1: I should have taken his keys. So she thinks she's
Speaker 1: responsible for his death, not that she necessarily.
Speaker 2: You know, she gives so many twists and turns. Yeah,
Speaker 2: she gives us so many you know, the diary entry,
Speaker 2: the there's just they're fucking with us and it works,
Speaker 2: and she's the perfect person for this party.
Speaker 3: I don't know, she's great because you're.
Speaker 2: Like, this bitch is guilty. Okay, blood sheets, you're guilty.
Speaker 2: Oh no, a diary entry you're ilty?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, another admission? Not again, not guilty? What the
Speaker 3: fuck an Margaret?
Speaker 1: No, because this fucking episode has so many twists.
Speaker 3: There's still like three twists left. Okay.
Speaker 1: So they've exhumed cal Cutler's body and Warner has gone
Speaker 1: over it, and her findings are the same as the
Speaker 1: original autopsy, but twist, the body they exhumed is not
Speaker 1: Cal Cutler. Melinda's like, this guy's five to eight, Cal
Speaker 1: was six to two, Like, we're not, you know, fucking
Speaker 1: with six inches here of discrepancy. So the guy that
Speaker 1: she IDs from prison dental records is named James Rogers,
Speaker 1: age forty four, so Cutler, it looks like faked his
Speaker 1: own death. And Melinda goes, here's a lead. Why don't
Speaker 1: you start with the officer who released Rogers from custody
Speaker 1: earlier that day.
Speaker 3: Then Ellie and.
Speaker 1: Olivia both look at the piece.
Speaker 3: Of paper and their look is shocked.
Speaker 1: Then the next scene, Susan Delzio is back at the
Speaker 1: precincts and Olivia is like, so why did you kill Emily?
Speaker 1: And Susan's like, what the fuck are you talking about?
Speaker 1: Because the scene starts out very like Joky. She goes,
Speaker 1: why you guys are calling me in so much? What
Speaker 1: do you want me to rejoin the force? And then
Speaker 1: she's like, haha, so why did you kill Emily? And
Speaker 1: then Susan's like what are you talking about? And liv
Speaker 1: is like, you told us all about meeting Cal, how
Speaker 1: you were so starstruck by him. It must have been
Speaker 1: so exciting, like falling into bed with this local celeb,
Speaker 1: which again Lisa and I don't understand how that would
Speaker 1: be that exciting, but alas, that's what every been thinks here.
Speaker 1: And then they show a photo of Jaqueline Smith as
Speaker 1: a blonde rookie cop and she just absolutely looks like
Speaker 1: a supermodel wearing a police hat, Like this photo is wild,
Speaker 1: Like she just like you just have never seen a
Speaker 1: cop that looks like that.
Speaker 2: There's no way she would survive the police force without
Speaker 2: getting sexually harassed day in and day out for decades.
Speaker 2: There's like no way she was not groped. And it
Speaker 2: was the seventies and no one cared, Yeah.
Speaker 3: For sure.
Speaker 1: So she's like, you know, and but it also shows
Speaker 1: that she was blonde back of the day, because Susan
Speaker 1: Donno now has like a brownish auburn kind of thing
Speaker 1: going on. So lives like you were smarter than those bimbos.
Speaker 1: You know, you convinced Cal that he was a top
Speaker 1: suspect and then so you helped him fake his own death.
Speaker 1: And they're like, what are you talking about. Cal's dead,
Speaker 1: is what Susan's saying. And they're like, Cal isn't dead.
Speaker 1: James Rogers is okay. Then why am I here? And
Speaker 1: where is Cal? You dumb bitch? One of the best moments.
Speaker 1: I love someone just calling Olivia a dumb bitch. And
Speaker 1: if you listen to our podcast, you know we love
Speaker 1: saying that. So where is Cal? Because they keep running
Speaker 1: the story on with her and and she's like, okay,
Speaker 1: but then where's Cal? Like everything you're saying rests on
Speaker 1: where Cal is? And then Stabler enters and goes, he's
Speaker 1: in your apartment where you wouldn't let us in. Remember Pedro, Guys,
Speaker 1: we're about to meet Pedro, And it's Cal Cutler who
Speaker 1: walks in and he's been living in Susan Delzio's apartment
Speaker 1: for thirty five years. He walks in, his face is
Speaker 1: like melted. Okay, And it turns out that in the
Speaker 1: original death faking, the car didn't light up the way
Speaker 1: he plans, so he went down to set it on fire,
Speaker 1: got drenched in gas, and then like got caught on
Speaker 1: fire during the explosion. So Susan breaks down and is
Speaker 1: like he was gonna leave her. I went to get
Speaker 1: his things and Emily wasn't supposed to be there. I
Speaker 1: flew into a rage and it just happened and Cal
Speaker 1: forgave her and they're in love and they just wanted
Speaker 1: to be together forever, and one of them goes, well,
Speaker 1: forever just ended, and she's like touching Cal's melted face
Speaker 1: and like no, no, and then Benson arrests Susan and
Speaker 1: takes her away while she's screaming I love you Cal,
Speaker 1: over and over again.
Speaker 3: And that is dick wolf, Baby.
Speaker 2: That's true love. Because he looked like he should be
Speaker 2: in the Twilight Zone.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I guess you're just like, wow, I
Speaker 1: got the guy, like I got the hot guy that
Speaker 1: all these babes wanted. I'm gonna keep him in my house.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna keep him alive.
Speaker 3: We're never gonna leave. But it's like, yeah, he must
Speaker 3: never leave. Oh so crazy.
Speaker 2: No, And he probably couldn't handle it since like for
Speaker 2: so long everyone wanted to fuck him and he was
Speaker 2: a celebrity and now he would be like a melted
Speaker 2: monster and people would be yeah, like not just casual,
Speaker 2: but like, I don't think he can handle it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 2: That's an incredible episode, Girl Power. Thank you so much. Now,
Speaker 2: have you know some messages from our sponsors. We'll be back, baby, Okay,
Speaker 2: So this is based on the Bedroom Basher and you know,
Speaker 2: the Bedtime Butcher, so very very close in terms, and
Speaker 2: there's a lot of overlapping with the episode as you
Speaker 2: will see. So the Bedroom Basher was responsible for, in quotes,
Speaker 2: a string of sex slings that terrorized Orange County in
Speaker 2: the nineteen seventies.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, oh see wow. Yeah, it was in California.
Speaker 2: Gerald Gerard Gerald, Parker Gerald, and he was an ex
Speaker 2: marine and he is now in prison in San Quentin,
Speaker 2: which is the place to be if you're a killer, Like,
Speaker 2: if you want to be put in a jail.
Speaker 3: San Quentin is where you want to be. Oh who's who?
Speaker 1: I guess Yeah, if you're into other psychos, sure, yeah, yeah, yeah, No,
Speaker 1: I think it's.
Speaker 2: A terrible place to be. But you're you know, it's nice.
Speaker 2: You're not in Oklahoma. I don't know, maybe it's better
Speaker 2: to be in Oklahoma. I don't know what I'm talking about.
Speaker 2: I'm just a starfucking horror and Sam Quinton is famous.
Speaker 1: So anyways, is that where Scott Peterson is Yeah? Oh okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: when The Redhead was Well, that's why you like it,
Speaker 1: because we all know you love Scott Peterson.
Speaker 2: I bet we lost tens of thousands of listeners because
Speaker 2: of that episode.
Speaker 3: People are going to turn their backs on me, I
Speaker 3: know it.
Speaker 2: But a jury took over just two hours to find
Speaker 2: Gerald Parker guilty of six counts of first degree murder,
Speaker 2: including the death of a fetus.
Speaker 3: The wild Twist is the wrong Man.
Speaker 2: The husband of one of the victims served more than
Speaker 2: sixteen years in prison for the attack. Oh so five
Speaker 2: of the victims. They were aged between seventeen and thirty
Speaker 2: one years old. In the bedroom bachelor assaults in nineteen
Speaker 2: seventy eight and nineteen seventy nine. We have Deborah Lynn Senior.
Speaker 2: She was seventeen years old and was murdered in her
Speaker 2: Coast to Mesa apartment.
Speaker 3: Sandra K.
Speaker 2: Frye was seventeen and from Anaheim, Kimberly Gay Rollins twenty one,
Speaker 2: from Coast to Mesa and also from Coast to Mesa,
Speaker 2: Marilyn K. Carlton who is thirty one, and then Deborah
Speaker 2: Kennedy twenty four of Tustin. There's also another DNA match
Speaker 2: of a rape of a twenty four year old Optometris,
Speaker 2: but there was a three year statute of limitations, so
Speaker 2: the case expired, but like what three years?
Speaker 3: Three years? So fucked up.
Speaker 2: Also, I love that they're like, you know, twenty four
Speaker 2: old optometrists, like this is the bachelor, like her.
Speaker 3: Name, like, it's just she's a vet tech.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was just weird to read, but you know,
Speaker 2: eye doctors are important. And then the sixth woman was
Speaker 2: Diana Deyello. There is an apostrophe in her name, so
Speaker 2: God knows how to say it. Okay, but I got
Speaker 2: it great, thank you who? And she was nine months
Speaker 2: pre survived the attack, but the baby was stillborn. But
Speaker 2: her husband is the one that was found guilty of
Speaker 2: the crime. So it's just strange because she wasn't dead,
Speaker 2: so like if someone was dead and then they for
Speaker 2: you know, got the wrong guy convicted. That makes sense.
Speaker 2: There's not a witness. So I was very confused, and
Speaker 2: I kept rereading and rereading to make sure I wasn't
Speaker 2: fucking it up. That the woman who lived husband served
Speaker 2: sixteen years of a life sentence for this crime he
Speaker 2: didn't commit. So I will get into how all of
Speaker 2: that came about.
Speaker 3: Of course I have a lot of questions.
Speaker 2: Yay, no, so did I And I kept thinking that
Speaker 2: I just wasn't reading something right, and it was really hard.
Speaker 2: But also for such an interesting crime this is in story,
Speaker 2: I'm shocked there wasn't more information, Like the New York
Speaker 2: Times didn't even mention anything. And you know, I have
Speaker 2: a subscription, but I've learned to things you don't have
Speaker 2: a subscription for. You just copy the the your URL
Speaker 2: is that what it's called the address, the world Wide
Speaker 2: Web address, and you open an incognito window and if
Speaker 2: you put it incognito, you can read the article. Yeah,
Speaker 2: And when someone was telling me they did that, I'm like,
Speaker 2: just pay the ten dollars and support journalism, you motherfucker,
Speaker 2: Like we need journalists in the free press.
Speaker 1: No, but somebody I try to do that because I'm
Speaker 1: reading like an article on like the link.
Speaker 3: You guys.
Speaker 1: I one time, like did subscribe to like the Nebraska
Speaker 1: Star or something that I was like never going to read,
Speaker 1: like some Omaha newspaper, just so I could read an
Speaker 1: article about one of our cases.
Speaker 3: For this podcast.
Speaker 1: And then I had to actually contact them and say hi,
Speaker 1: I'd like to end my subscription. Like there was no
Speaker 1: way to do it online. So it's a little bit harder,
Speaker 1: easier said than done.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So Diana's husband, Kevin Green, was found guilty of
Speaker 2: the crime after an alleged fight. They blamed him for it,
Speaker 2: and he said another man attacked Dello. So he was
Speaker 2: released from prison in nineteen ninety six after DNA samples
Speaker 2: taken from Parker, who was convicted of rape, matched with
Speaker 2: the traces from five unsolved crimes and the Green case.
Speaker 3: So he spent sixteen years in prison. Can you fucking imagine, NA?
Speaker 2: So, what Deanna claimed was that her ex husband beat
Speaker 2: her and left her semi conscious in their apartment right
Speaker 2: before Parker entered through an unlocked kitchen door and struck
Speaker 2: and raped her. She said he was mad and attacked
Speaker 2: her and they were fighting after she refused to have sex,
Speaker 2: which would be fucked to force her nine month pregnant
Speaker 2: wife to fuck.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but also that's like a full thing that would
Speaker 1: happen on SVU, Like, you beat your wife and leave
Speaker 1: her unconscious and then somebody walks right in the door
Speaker 1: and commits a crime. Yeah, you committed a crime. That
Speaker 1: is a crime, But like that's wild.
Speaker 2: So she says that the culpability of Gerald Parker does
Speaker 2: not excuse Kevin Lee Green she said, she feels that
Speaker 2: she has been raped and beaten by two men, by
Speaker 2: a stranger and by a man who I loved and trusted.
Speaker 3: Is what she said in court.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: In October of nineteen ninety nine, the governor signed a
Speaker 2: bill awarding Kevin Green six hundred and twenty thousand dollars
Speaker 2: for compensation for the years he spent behind bars for
Speaker 2: a crime he did not do.
Speaker 3: But again, like, what the fuck?
Speaker 2: Like the wife was alive, so how did she keep
Speaker 2: blaming her husband if she was dead?
Speaker 3: Like? It is tough to put this all together.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because she was in a coma and knocked unconscious.
Speaker 2: So I'm not sure how her testimony was even admissible
Speaker 2: in court. And I'm not a lawyer. I think I am,
Speaker 2: of course, but I don't know how it was allowed
Speaker 2: if she was fucked and she suffered memory loss. But
Speaker 2: her testimony did help convict him. And I feel bad
Speaker 2: for Kevin Lee Green.
Speaker 1: But he also beat a nine month pregnant woman unconscious.
Speaker 3: I mean he denies it. Yeah, I have no idea
Speaker 3: what happened.
Speaker 2: I mean, he had an out, so basically, the jury
Speaker 2: what the jury did not believe Green's alibi, He said
Speaker 2: that he went to eat a cheeseburger at the time
Speaker 2: of the attack, and that he had seen a black
Speaker 2: man loitering around the apartment complex, and the jury just
Speaker 2: didn't believe it because also blaming a random or imagined
Speaker 2: black person is pretty standard, you know, to.
Speaker 3: Lie and blame it on somebody black.
Speaker 2: So that like his alibi worked against That's the thing
Speaker 2: that's tough, because he was like this model inmate. And
Speaker 2: we'll get into it. But of course did he beat
Speaker 2: this nine month pregnant wife. Why, like, why was Gerald
Speaker 2: never in the picture? It's tough. I have no idea.
Speaker 2: I don't know why. I see it as so twisted.
Speaker 2: But maybe he did leave his wife unconscious on the ground.
Speaker 3: It's fucked up. Well, I mean, I don't know why
Speaker 3: she would make up that story. I don't either, you know,
Speaker 3: I don't either.
Speaker 2: So if he did, I mean, if he did do it,
Speaker 2: he did spend sixteen years in prisons, so that is good.
Speaker 2: But it is the death of the unwanted death of
Speaker 2: a fetus that is a murder.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: Like I said, I'm very shocked that there's not more
Speaker 2: about this case. There was one weird episode of something
Speaker 2: that I didn't want to watch.
Speaker 1: But yeah, and like, if he beat her, that is
Speaker 1: what could have caused the stillborn to die. They probably
Speaker 1: cannot determine whether it was that beating or the second
Speaker 1: crime that is what killed the child, yeah, or the fetus.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2: She ended up suing him for a wrongful death suit
Speaker 2: and still holds him partially responsible for the crime. She
Speaker 2: won a multimillion dollar judgment by default because Green was
Speaker 2: in prison, but when he was freed from prison, he
Speaker 2: filed a counter suit to have the judgment thrown out
Speaker 2: and it was voided eventually.
Speaker 3: But he has said that she.
Speaker 2: Was a victim of the system as I was, and
Speaker 2: is it mad or blames her for anything? So does
Speaker 2: that mean he's like a good guy or he knows
Speaker 2: he fucking beat the shit out of her?
Speaker 3: And yeah, I don't blame her. I did fuck up.
Speaker 3: I don't know. Lies.
Speaker 2: I'd also be mad if I had to spend that
Speaker 2: much time in jail if I didn't do it.
Speaker 3: It's tough.
Speaker 2: But scoop from the jail was that he was a
Speaker 2: model inmate. My favorite, This is one of my favorite
Speaker 2: things I've ever found in research. He planned and coordinated
Speaker 2: the prison. Christmas parties love that he was the warden's
Speaker 2: secretary and he helped give tours to college students of
Speaker 2: the prison. And he kept remaining like, he kept saying
Speaker 2: he was innocent the whole time, and that actually hurt
Speaker 2: him in parole hearings because he was viewed as unrepentant. So,
Speaker 2: you know, they like when you learn a lesson, they
Speaker 2: don't like if you continue to say that you're innocent.
Speaker 3: Here's what I don't understand.
Speaker 1: The DNA they found on her was not his DNA,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like he couldn't have.
Speaker 3: Gotten the but there was no DNA. This was the seventies.
Speaker 3: Then how did they end up matching it to Gerald
Speaker 3: in the nineties.
Speaker 2: In the nineties Gerald, I'll get back into it. Right
Speaker 2: around the time of Dello's attack, several other women were
Speaker 2: sexually assaulted and brutally murdered by an assailant, but the
Speaker 2: cases were never linked, and then the crimes eventually ran cold.
Speaker 2: And it could have been because the testin and COASTA
Speaker 2: MESA departments weren't sharing information with each other or whatnot.
Speaker 2: I'm not really sure, but they did. They do always
Speaker 2: keep working on unsolved murders. And then in the nineties
Speaker 2: they learned of a new technology, genetic testing, so it
Speaker 2: was short tandem repeats STR. It's a type of DNA
Speaker 2: analysis that's effective and identifying individuals. At the time, the
Speaker 2: Orange County Crime Lab was only one of three labs
Speaker 2: in the nation capable of this type of analysis.
Speaker 3: So that's really exciting.
Speaker 2: And maybe it's because Orange County is really rich, maybe
Speaker 2: like we do cover a lot of crimes in southern California,
Speaker 2: so maybe it's because we're a hot bed or whatnot.
Speaker 3: But one of three.
Speaker 2: So the testin and Coasta mesa pds submitted to from
Speaker 2: the bedroom Basher murders, and the STR method was used
Speaker 2: to match DNA of convicted individuals through a computer database
Speaker 2: called COTIS. And we've heard about COTIS on SVU and
Speaker 2: this could be a Tarru moment for us, Maybe not
Speaker 2: for me. It was CODIS stands for something, it's combined
Speaker 2: DNA index system. So we're learning, honey, and they got
Speaker 2: multiple hits.
Speaker 3: Multiple hits.
Speaker 2: He obviously thought he had gotten away with these murders
Speaker 2: for such a long time, which I bet is even
Speaker 2: more powerful than Big Dick energy, Like getting away with
Speaker 2: murder energy, I'm sure is big. Yeah, they also think
Speaker 2: that he's responsible for more killings, especially these three other
Speaker 2: dead women in Orange County, but they have not been
Speaker 2: able to improve that. So once they established all the links,
Speaker 2: they took a field trip. They traveled to Avenel State
Speaker 2: Prison in central California to talk to Parker, and eventually
Speaker 2: the Orange County District Attorney did apologize to Kevin Green,
Speaker 2: but also said our justice system is not one hundred
Speaker 2: percent perfect, but it's as close to perfect as you're
Speaker 2: going to find anywhere in this world.
Speaker 3: That can't be true.
Speaker 2: So it's like you're either dumb or not well traveled
Speaker 2: or you think I'm like, it's just not true, and
Speaker 2: I don't and if I don't want you working in
Speaker 2: the legal system, if you think it's.
Speaker 3: That that's close to perfect in the world, Yeah, that's
Speaker 3: really a wild statement.
Speaker 2: I've just been thinking about juries more and more and
Speaker 2: what they cling to and what they don't and that
Speaker 2: you need money and our justice system is not perfect.
Speaker 3: So whatever, cool apology, bro.
Speaker 2: But obviously, like when this all happened, they were very
Speaker 2: excited and completely amazed, said Frank Fitzpatrick, the sheriff's forensic
Speaker 2: science director, and he said, not only did we get
Speaker 2: a hit in the database, but it was linked to
Speaker 2: all of these cases. And I'm sure that was like
Speaker 2: so fucking exciting. Solving a cold case seems exciting. So gir,
Speaker 2: why do I want to say Gerard so bad?
Speaker 1: So?
Speaker 2: Gerald Parker was in custody for sexually assaulting a thirteen
Speaker 2: year old girl in Testine in nineteen eighty and then
Speaker 2: he confessed to it all, including DELLO. The defense did
Speaker 2: not really contest much on any of the physical evidence
Speaker 2: that included fingerprints in DNA matches that made it very
Speaker 2: clear that Parker did it. Parker's lawyers mostly focused on
Speaker 2: his state of mind at the time of the crimes
Speaker 2: and said he was wasted, so it was second degree
Speaker 2: not first degree murder because he couldn't have planned because
Speaker 2: he was like an alcohol drug addict. But I was
Speaker 2: listening to Whitney Comings podcast again with Jenniferyman. They were
Speaker 2: talking about when it comes to murder, arguing it's really
Speaker 2: hard to charge some of the first degree murder and
Speaker 2: like it's hard to prove that somebody planned something or
Speaker 2: was gonna do it, So yeah, like if you're like
Speaker 2: a hardcore murder. Your job isn't to like free the person,
Speaker 2: it's to try to get it down, you know.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Like my uncle's a public was a public defender for
Speaker 1: really long time in Florida. And I'd be like, do
Speaker 1: your clients like do it? And he goes, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: They've always done it. I'm trying to get them to
Speaker 1: not die, like I'm trying to get them not to
Speaker 1: have the death penalty.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, oh, got it, got it. And I'm like,
Speaker 1: so they're never innocent.
Speaker 2: He's like no, but do but do they lie and
Speaker 2: tell him that they are, and he just goes with it.
Speaker 3: I don't think so.
Speaker 1: A lot of times it's like you bust it in
Speaker 1: on your wife in bed with someone and shot her.
Speaker 3: That's what he told me.
Speaker 1: It was like stuff like that where it's like it's irrefutable,
Speaker 1: like that you did it, Like it's just you know.
Speaker 2: So, But it's to me the prosecution of course, Arson
Speaker 2: I agree called bullshit and said he knew exactly what
Speaker 2: he was doing. Because if there's a pattern and you
Speaker 2: always do the same thing, there's you clear. If you've
Speaker 2: done it seven times, you know what you're doing.
Speaker 3: Wasted or not totally.
Speaker 1: You might be wasted to get your nerve up, but
Speaker 1: you're doing the same thing over and over.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And he just kept saying I was just there
Speaker 2: to rob people. The killing was an accident side effect.
Speaker 2: And it's like, shut up, bro, you had a signature.
Speaker 2: The judge in the case, Francisco Pi Brazil, I know, Brazano.
Speaker 2: Let's just call him Brasino for the fish. Tom Parker
Speaker 2: is in quote and his inhumane behavior is beyond belief.
Speaker 2: And he rejected all of the defense's arguments about Parker
Speaker 2: and that his life should be spared because he was
Speaker 2: a drug addict with a troubled background. And it's like, sorry,
Speaker 2: unfortunately that only works for white men who murdered dozens
Speaker 2: of people at once.
Speaker 3: Honey, come on now, it's not gonna work for you.
Speaker 2: He was convicted in nineteen ninety eight, sentenced to death
Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety nine. Like I said, he is in
Speaker 2: San Quentin on death row. And Green, Kevin Green, now
Speaker 2: lives in Missouri. And of course, you know, tragedy all
Speaker 2: the way around, lots of lives damaged, lost, lots of
Speaker 2: years and I don't know, and.
Speaker 3: Is this fucked up?
Speaker 1: But did you say how he murdered them. I think
Speaker 1: they could just beat the shit out of them. When
Speaker 1: you said the guy said it was an accident, I'm like,
Speaker 1: how much of an accident can it.
Speaker 3: Be to like bash someone to death? Yeah, I don't know, Okay.
Speaker 2: Obviously if I found it, I would have written, you know, yeah,
Speaker 2: it was hard. It was like the La Times was
Speaker 2: the only thing that really gave me more, Like I
Speaker 2: had to go on murder Pedia. I was on sheriff's websites,
Speaker 2: like I really there was not as much as I
Speaker 2: would have assumed. That's really interesting, And a lot of
Speaker 2: it was about the exoneration of Kevin Green and the
Speaker 2: letting go and like the dramatics of that versus this.
Speaker 1: So I don't know, interesting, Well, thanks for all that research.
Speaker 1: I knew not a lick about the bedtime.
Speaker 3: No, that's what I mean.
Speaker 2: And it's such an intricate case and different in fault,
Speaker 2: like you know, and this whole time, I'm like, oh,
Speaker 2: thank god Kevin Green got out of prison. But then
Speaker 2: you brought up it doesn't mean that Diana was wrong,
Speaker 2: and so that adds more layers to it. And obviously
Speaker 2: s you found how to get this going, but I
Speaker 2: am shocked that it's not more like in conversation or
Speaker 2: another podcast.
Speaker 1: Well, and obviously I wish there was a seventies mattress
Speaker 1: king who was embroiled, you know, multi woman plot that
Speaker 1: ended up with him living in seclusion for thirty five years.
Speaker 1: But this was good too, Yeah, and slowly melting all right,
Speaker 1: that was awesome And we have a you're not even
Speaker 1: gonna believe it, honestly, it's such a good I'm so
Speaker 1: excited who we're talking to?
Speaker 3: You guys, stick.
Speaker 1: Around, Okay, you guys, we were both like truly gagged
Speaker 1: when this person said that they would do our podcast.
Speaker 3: Like we were like, are you sure? Like does she
Speaker 3: know what this is?
Speaker 1: Like? We have a truly iconic actress and absolute fashion mogul.
Speaker 1: A legend in celebrity branding, She's appeared in everything from
Speaker 1: CSI to The Love Boat, and is best known as
Speaker 1: one of the og angels in Charlie's Angels. But you
Speaker 1: guys know her from today's episode as Susan Deelzio. Guys,
Speaker 1: feast your ears on our Chat with the Great Jacqueline Smith.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, Jacqueline Smith. We really cannot believe we're
Speaker 1: talking to you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what made you say yes to the podcast? We
Speaker 2: were floored. You are like our reach and we could
Speaker 2: not believe it.
Speaker 5: Oh that's very flattering, thank you. Although you know, I'm
Speaker 5: not used to podcasts, but I think they're certainly what's
Speaker 5: happening today, and it's good for me to sort of
Speaker 5: open up and do it and eat more people and
Speaker 5: do more things.
Speaker 2: That we obviously have a lot of prepared questions. But
Speaker 2: I see there's trophies behind you, and I am intrigued
Speaker 2: and I'd like to know what they are.
Speaker 5: They're not mine, golf trophies, Brant. I mean, he's he's good,
Speaker 5: so really and it's his passion, so he right, that's
Speaker 5: a good answer, Brad. Yeah, but he's played all his life.
Speaker 1: And amazing love and you you guys live in Los Angeles, right, yes, yeah,
Speaker 1: we're here too.
Speaker 3: So you must belong to like a club where he
Speaker 3: gets to play a lot, right.
Speaker 5: Well, he belonged to a club in Houston, where I'm
Speaker 5: from because he practiced medicine there, and now he's in
Speaker 5: the process of joining a club here. Great, it is true,
Speaker 5: this club situation.
Speaker 3: You got to get your hours in. You can't.
Speaker 5: Yeah, you gotta, you know, have everybody to your house
Speaker 5: and do the right things to get into these clubs.
Speaker 3: I don't understand.
Speaker 5: In the film business, we don't have clubs, right, just
Speaker 5: welcome everybody.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Well I'm from I'm from Connecticut, so
Speaker 1: I know the whole club.
Speaker 3: About to say, how do you know about golfing, and
Speaker 3: then I go, oh, yeah.
Speaker 5: Connecticut, Oh Connecticut, Yes, I love Connecticut. Yeah. Really, how
Speaker 5: long have you been here?
Speaker 1: I've been in LA for six years, after eleven in
Speaker 1: New York City and then growing up in Connecticut.
Speaker 5: I get it. New York's fun.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: Did you spend like a lot of time living there?
Speaker 5: Ever? I started my career there as a ballet dancer,
Speaker 5: and then oh that's right, lived on with doing other
Speaker 5: things and would go back and forth. But now with COVID,
Speaker 5: I haven't been probably in two years. You know. I'd
Speaker 5: go because my design team for kmart sears, which I'm
Speaker 5: no longer with it, but was there, so I was
Speaker 5: constantly going and loving it. I love me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, it's weird. We're we're both big fans. If
Speaker 1: we could be by coastal easily, we would both do that.
Speaker 5: I think, yeah, it would be nice.
Speaker 2: But you did mention the Kmart line and we were
Speaker 2: talking about how now so many celebrities and influencers have
Speaker 2: lines and makeup lines and everything, but you were really
Speaker 2: the first. And do you think you get enough credit
Speaker 2: for being kind of the first celeb clothing line.
Speaker 5: I think where the credit comes if I think of
Speaker 5: it as credit is I did it thirty five years. Yeah,
Speaker 5: and now as it speaks for the line line and
Speaker 5: my team and thirty six years, he's going to correct me.
Speaker 5: He's the numbers man. It's the way our brains work.
Speaker 5: But when you think of thirty six years with a store,
Speaker 5: it was an education. They were great to me. I
Speaker 5: had the greatest team. I went the distance. And as
Speaker 5: much as we talk about Charlie's Kmart Sears was my
Speaker 5: career in branding and it opened up so many things
Speaker 5: for me. So I'm grateful.
Speaker 1: No, it's just funny that like any housewife that's been
Speaker 1: on the show for like one one season will put
Speaker 1: out a skincare line or you know, do anything, like
Speaker 1: all different kinds of stuff, and you seem like you're
Speaker 1: like the Jacqueline Smith collections, like the first celebrity to
Speaker 1: kind of get in that trailblazer.
Speaker 5: It was at the time, you know, it was under
Speaker 5: contract to Max Factor and they did not want me
Speaker 5: to do it. They said, that's not your customer, don't
Speaker 5: and I turned it down and then they said take
Speaker 5: a meeting with us, and I did, and I saw
Speaker 5: a line. It was a line called Hunter's Glen. It
Speaker 5: was very reminiscent of Ralph Lauren and I looked at
Speaker 5: it and I thought, wow, how can they do that
Speaker 5: for that price, you know, And it fascinated me, and
Speaker 5: I thought, I'm going to take this on because my
Speaker 5: mother had always wanted to be a designer, and I thought,
Speaker 5: this is an opportunity for me, and it's going to
Speaker 5: be going in new, new direction, new terrain, and it's
Speaker 5: going to be a challenge. And it was a challenge.
Speaker 5: And I would say, look over one hundred million women
Speaker 5: I worm purchased my clothes, So that's you know, that's
Speaker 5: great feeling.
Speaker 1: Do you remember any specific product that was like the
Speaker 1: big hit, like oh, we had this leopard blouse that
Speaker 1: flew off the shelves, or like this duster.
Speaker 3: Like anything.
Speaker 1: Like my husband's talking in that He's like I know
Speaker 1: it's a classic.
Speaker 5: Yeah, he loves it. I think he should be on camera. Okay, yeah, okay.
Speaker 5: Any particular thing that flew.
Speaker 1: Out, yeah, like that just was, yeah, like a signature
Speaker 1: thing or you were like, wow, this was like our
Speaker 1: biggest seller.
Speaker 5: Well, certainly my first collection was it just because we
Speaker 5: didn't we didn't debut it in all the stores, and
Speaker 5: it just sold like gangbusters. And it was sort of
Speaker 5: very collegiate looking bleted pants and you know, cotton blouses
Speaker 5: and very uh, you know, just sort of classic clothing.
Speaker 5: And so then it was a big hit. But then
Speaker 5: later we did cashmere sweaters Bnack cardigans and they flew
Speaker 5: out because the price point was unbelievable for one hundred
Speaker 5: percent cashmere. So there are those particular things. Our leather skirts,
Speaker 5: our pencil leather skirts, and we went into vegan leather skirts,
Speaker 5: which flu So there's been you know, I think we
Speaker 5: always did in October breast cancer month because I'm a
Speaker 5: breast cancer survivor, so we would do a collection and
Speaker 5: part of that went to breast cancer research.
Speaker 3: That's amazing.
Speaker 1: You seem like you really like, you know, a lot
Speaker 1: of people are really stuck in what they know and
Speaker 1: you seem like you really are open to new things
Speaker 1: and pivoting, like let's do a leather skirt to a
Speaker 1: vegan skirt to podcasts.
Speaker 3: You know you're trying new thing.
Speaker 5: You know it's interesting. You girls are great and you
Speaker 5: know when you don't know where to look on a
Speaker 5: podcast because I'm an you know, actress to start with
Speaker 5: the stories in the eyes and you just, you know,
Speaker 5: are looking a million places. I think podcasts are hard,
Speaker 5: and when you're a hit at it, it's really it's
Speaker 5: not the easiest thing to do.
Speaker 1: No, it's and you know, I think when podcasts first
Speaker 1: started a lot of people were doing it together.
Speaker 3: It's really covid that we're on zoom.
Speaker 1: Like you used to invite someone to your studio and
Speaker 1: you would across from you to have a conversation.
Speaker 5: Love that because I love one on one stories in
Speaker 5: the eyes. Sure, and you know you get to but
Speaker 5: you know, it's interesting. Even in film today, auditions are
Speaker 5: on zoom and on camera, and I think they missed
Speaker 5: so much, they missed so much.
Speaker 3: From Yeah, that's interesting.
Speaker 2: Are you still auditioning? Are you still tapes? I feel
Speaker 2: you're an offer only girl.
Speaker 5: No, I'm like to think I'm an offer only, and yes,
Speaker 5: they're those. And then sometimes they'll say we want to
Speaker 5: see you on film, and yeah, so I'll do it.
Speaker 5: But you know, in general, you know, they do know
Speaker 5: my work, and I have a film that I can
Speaker 5: show them, but sometimes you know, they say, no, we
Speaker 5: want to see you read these lines?
Speaker 3: Interesting? Yeah and how yeah?
Speaker 1: Speaking of well, I was just going to say, now
Speaker 1: that we're getting into your acting career, can we talk
Speaker 1: about like what got you to this SPU episode?
Speaker 2: Do we have a theory that Neil bar wanted you
Speaker 2: and came right after you?
Speaker 5: That's right? Do you know him?
Speaker 3: Yes, he's done our podcast twice.
Speaker 5: Oh, he is a great guy. And as you know
Speaker 5: in that episode I did, he had and Margaret Morgan,
Speaker 5: Fairchild and all these you know, sort of seventies. It
Speaker 5: was really a fun show to do, although I didn't
Speaker 5: get to work with and Margaret and I didn't work
Speaker 5: with Morgan, but I love doings for you. I love
Speaker 5: New York. There was a big snowstorm. We were there longer.
Speaker 5: The streets were covered in snow, and so you know
Speaker 5: the length of time was you know, much longer because
Speaker 5: we had to delay some shootings. But it's a great show.
Speaker 5: It's a show that gosh, how many years.
Speaker 3: Twenty three seasons.
Speaker 5: So he's done your podcast, tell him hi if he
Speaker 5: does it again.
Speaker 1: Yeah no, and he you know, he told us that's
Speaker 1: his sort of like the thing, a thing he loves
Speaker 1: or just like all these class the actresses from the seventies,
Speaker 1: and so he was constantly trying to get them. And
Speaker 1: I think this episode is like gott Neil Bear's name
Speaker 1: written all over it because you were all.
Speaker 3: Wow, it's all like these icons in one episode.
Speaker 5: His idea. I think he had it even long before
Speaker 5: he brought it together. And I had worked for Dick
Speaker 5: Wolf before who because I'd done Christine Cromwell for him,
Speaker 5: and they just worked all those girls yeah together and
Speaker 5: it was a fun show. It's funny. I wanted to
Speaker 5: do the n Margaret part and they, oh, no, you're
Speaker 5: more right for this part. And you know, so I
Speaker 5: ended up being the bad guy and it was the
Speaker 5: bad girl, which.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you were such a great twist like you
Speaker 1: were the good You were like another cop, like just
Speaker 1: like a lot of times that show will bring in
Speaker 1: like a helper cop that kind of helps the squad
Speaker 1: and they don't always turn out bad, but you did,
Speaker 1: and I'd be great, a great twist.
Speaker 2: Did you know that going in or while you read
Speaker 2: the script? Was it a surprise to you?
Speaker 5: No, well, it opened up as I read it because
Speaker 5: I didn't think she you know, and it was revealed
Speaker 5: at the end. So so it was fun and of course,
Speaker 5: as you know, being in New York was a plus.
Speaker 5: It was a real plus.
Speaker 2: Yeah, even though you had no scenes with the other
Speaker 2: guest starring women, did you guys get to do any dinners,
Speaker 2: hang out, have some laughs at the hotel all the set.
Speaker 5: No, you know, it's funny. They bring them in. You know,
Speaker 5: they'd bring me to do my part. They'd bring and
Speaker 5: they'd bring Morgan. So that's how they save money time.
Speaker 3: Sure, and don't have a lot of people waiting around, but.
Speaker 5: It would have been fun normally if you do. You know,
Speaker 5: I've done Hallmark where you know Hallmark brings in actresses
Speaker 5: from the seventies. I watched it every night because I
Speaker 5: had to see those Christmas lights and Christmas trees. And
Speaker 5: you know, they say it's the highest rated network. Did
Speaker 5: you know that?
Speaker 3: I did, But I believe it, And so.
Speaker 5: When I do that and you're on location. Yes, you
Speaker 5: have dinner and you hang out and you know, it's
Speaker 5: a real camaraderie. But on SUV it's time to the
Speaker 5: end degree. So they get that show in seven.
Speaker 3: Days or right. That's what we've heard from a lot
Speaker 3: of people that it's very like, you know, it's.
Speaker 5: So well organized and it's down to you know, a
Speaker 5: certain routine and they've got it down. Those actors are
Speaker 5: you know, they can do it and they're sleep Sure.
Speaker 1: You play a former cop retired cop in this episode?
Speaker 1: Did you draw on any of your Charlie's Angels detective skills? Yeah?
Speaker 3: Was I yeah?
Speaker 5: So long ago?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 5: How long ago was that?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 5: But you know I'm married to this guy that ends
Speaker 5: up being sort of crazy. Yeah, but you I think
Speaker 5: Charlie's you know, when I think back to holding a gun,
Speaker 5: we knew far and I knew nothing. Kate. She was
Speaker 5: like God, she could just you know, walk down the
Speaker 5: street hold that gun. And I'm doing a book now,
Speaker 5: I'm writing about that. How uncomfortable it was to hold
Speaker 5: a gun.
Speaker 3: Oh wow.
Speaker 5: So we had lessons. We had a technical advisor come
Speaker 5: in and teach us, you know how you you know,
Speaker 5: the safety issues of the gun, which is very important today.
Speaker 5: We know that, yes, and you know so, yeah, I
Speaker 5: think you drawn everything you do. Certainly I Drew on Charlie's,
Speaker 5: but Chris was, hey, let's face it, not a serious
Speaker 5: fluff And what did Aaron Spelling called Charlie's you know,
Speaker 5: mind candy. It was just supposed to be and not
Speaker 5: over analyzed. And so for SV you know, I couldn't
Speaker 5: really draw on too much except just the lingo of
Speaker 5: a cop.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: Speaking of Charlie's Angels, You've sort of appeared in a
Speaker 1: lot of the remake, right.
Speaker 5: I did in the second one with Drew and Cameron
Speaker 5: and Lucy and loved it, and then the last one
Speaker 5: very brief, you know, but the last Charlie's evolved to
Speaker 5: a place I didn't recognize our show because you know,
Speaker 5: I mean times change, and they uh uh, they went
Speaker 5: to another level. Bosley. There were a million Bosley's. And
Speaker 5: it's interesting because I think the fans of Charlie's want Charlie's.
Speaker 5: They want that original concept and I think, you know,
Speaker 5: certainly the way Drew brought it to life and Lynn Goldberg,
Speaker 5: that's what the public wanted.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it was a hit, and you know, it
Speaker 3: just hit me.
Speaker 2: I wonder if you do you like that pose has
Speaker 2: lived on and still to this day, if I'm taking
Speaker 2: a picture with two other girls, it's like, get into
Speaker 2: the Charlie's pose. Do you ever see that when you're
Speaker 2: out in about and I see it on underground?
Speaker 5: Asked me to do that post, you know, with two
Speaker 5: other girls or so that's just and my daughter goes, Mom,
Speaker 5: why are you doing that? I said, you know, they
Speaker 5: don't quite get it. They don't get you know, my
Speaker 5: children never really watched Charlie's Angels, and they've seen it,
Speaker 5: they know it. I think they saw Drew's you know,
Speaker 5: the second movie, and they were sort of taken back
Speaker 5: with it, and but it's not familiar to them because
Speaker 5: they were little and and you know, I repeat this,
Speaker 5: my son would go, oh, there's there's Jacqueline. Mommy and
Speaker 5: Jacqueline Smith were like two different people, you know, right,
Speaker 5: and he did they just you know, they were removed
Speaker 5: from it, and I was just mom. I was just mom.
Speaker 5: So they're not they don't really know that many shows
Speaker 5: like there are so many people this show. So I'm
Speaker 5: always shocked when I'm signing pictures for people that send
Speaker 5: in Charlie's, Charlie's, Charlie's. That's what it, you know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I don't think that pose will ever go away.
Speaker 2: I think even if the youth doesn't know where it's
Speaker 2: coming from, they really don't.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they probably don't at all.
Speaker 5: And I existed before that White MKINI and that, you know,
Speaker 5: that's when I was born. Yeah, it's interesting, but it's
Speaker 5: it when you think back, it's it's really great to
Speaker 5: be on on a show remembered like that and that
Speaker 5: kind of a hit because it's rare today and now
Speaker 5: there's so many networks, so wow.
Speaker 1: We talk about that all the time that you know,
Speaker 1: SVU is probably one of like the few existing shows
Speaker 1: that like a lot of people will watch because it's
Speaker 1: in syndications so much.
Speaker 3: But yeah, they're the water cooler.
Speaker 1: Shows like just don't really exist anymore because there's so
Speaker 1: much splintered specific networks, so you can watch whatever you
Speaker 1: want to watch.
Speaker 5: Hi, people make up their mind, you know, and then
Speaker 5: there's so many choices. But you know, when you think
Speaker 5: of friends or Sex in the City, and it'll be
Speaker 5: interesting to see how the new Sex.
Speaker 3: And the City we've been watching. Are you watching?
Speaker 5: Yes? I have been watching it. It's interesting.
Speaker 3: What do you think?
Speaker 5: I love the girls, I love thee Yeah.
Speaker 1: So can I ask you just a couple more SVU thingsir,
Speaker 1: because you know we can't get enough.
Speaker 5: Oh that's woful. I'm so y'all are really? I mean
Speaker 5: I am too, Like at night when I'll turn it
Speaker 5: on and watch a rerun.
Speaker 1: Yeah, people, do you ever like here from people when
Speaker 1: yours reruns?
Speaker 3: Like your episode's gone again?
Speaker 5: I do, yeah, and it's rerun quite a bit.
Speaker 1: So yeah, So what you got to be in like
Speaker 1: a great scene like at the station where you were
Speaker 1: you were with like Marishka, Christopher Maloney, Damn Floor at
Speaker 1: bed Wong like power players from the show.
Speaker 3: So like what was that like?
Speaker 1: Did you did you hit it off with any of
Speaker 1: them specifically or any little memories or tidbet do you remember?
Speaker 5: I knew Marishka and I think she's your fault. I
Speaker 5: mean not, you know, just in passing and knowing her,
Speaker 5: But in all honesty, to be in that ensemble was
Speaker 5: a bit uh daunting, you know, because you've got to
Speaker 5: get into their rhythm and it's a fine oiled machine
Speaker 5: that group and so you know, I am an actress
Speaker 5: that has done you know, my movies and not gone
Speaker 5: into series that much. So I think it was one
Speaker 5: of the more challenging moments because you don't want to
Speaker 5: let them down and you want to be right in
Speaker 5: with them and have their rhythm and uh so you know,
Speaker 5: it worked out great. But were their nerves. Yeah, there
Speaker 5: weren't some nerves, but everybody was so nice. You couldn't
Speaker 5: have gotten a nicer group. And and like I say,
Speaker 5: they you know, the director knew, you know, how to stage,
Speaker 5: how to place, how to My scenes were emotional, so
Speaker 5: I was sort of into my head too because at
Speaker 5: the end it's kind of an emotional crying scene, which
Speaker 5: usually I'm pretty good at because I'm highly emotional. H So,
Speaker 5: you know, I just remember it in being a little
Speaker 5: scary at first because I hadn't done serious that much.
Speaker 5: I've just done movies, and on a movie, everybody's coming
Speaker 5: in fresh.
Speaker 3: Getting to know it's a longer process.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I loved your chemistry with Marishka so much. And there's
Speaker 2: this awesome scene where you guys are walking and both
Speaker 2: of your hair is flowing in this perfect way and
Speaker 2: it's just the coolest hair walk every Well.
Speaker 5: Gosh, you guys really remember it this. I'm going to
Speaker 5: watch it again. Yeah, we're going to watch it again.
Speaker 3: You're so good and it you should definitely watch it.
Speaker 5: Well, thank you. I don't always rewatch or watch some
Speaker 5: but I am going, yeah, I need to refresh with
Speaker 5: that one.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: The chemistry like you and Marishka at the end when
Speaker 1: she's got you in the room, it's like very playful
Speaker 1: how she's kind of like, here's what you did, and
Speaker 1: she's like running through you, like but your character's like
Speaker 1: got an answer for every question. It's just like, no,
Speaker 1: this is why, this is why, and like it's not
Speaker 1: until she really.
Speaker 3: Dumb bitch? Was that fun?
Speaker 5: I've got to watch I wish i'd have watched it.
Speaker 3: That should be a meme. It's so funny. You're like,
Speaker 3: what do you know, you dumb bitch? It's so funny.
Speaker 5: I don't remember saying that. Okay, I'm watching it again tonight.
Speaker 3: Well, we love to say that.
Speaker 1: It's one of our favorite phrases on this podcast, for
Speaker 1: Get You, So yeah, we'll call somebody a dumb bitch
Speaker 1: if there, if they deserve it.
Speaker 2: And with network television, you don't always hear swears, so
Speaker 2: it is really still shocking and exciting to hear today.
Speaker 5: Guys, we do hear it, don't we.
Speaker 2: Well on table Well, another moment that was shocking was
Speaker 2: when cal Cutler your husband your.
Speaker 5: Dy Oh you got it. And now that brings back
Speaker 5: a lot that name, that name, what a name, cal.
Speaker 2: Cutler, but also the prosthetics. He looked very scary. Do
Speaker 2: you remember having this act with him?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 3: Yeah? He had like a melted face.
Speaker 5: I know he had a melted face. I remember I
Speaker 5: was hiding him, wasn't Yes, Yeah, I do remember certain things. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 5: I'll cut oh man.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And then there's one point also where they like look
Speaker 1: into your past or whatever and they open up your
Speaker 1: fold or your file and there's like a photo of
Speaker 1: you as a young cop and it's just like beautiful
Speaker 1: Jacqueline Smith's supermodel And I was like, did she give
Speaker 1: them this photo or did they photoshop this from like
Speaker 1: old existing photos of you that you know?
Speaker 5: I do remember that, and I can't remember.
Speaker 3: Oh okay, I just it's such a specific question.
Speaker 5: I don't know if that was an old photo or
Speaker 5: they photoshopped or do you guys know more about.
Speaker 1: Than I do cars that this is our business, but
Speaker 1: I mean I will, yeah, I'm just out of curiosity.
Speaker 5: I do remember, did I turn in a picture and
Speaker 5: they do something? I don't know or maybe.
Speaker 1: I wonder because you it's this beautiful, like mod photo
Speaker 1: of you, and I'm like, this does not look like
Speaker 1: a cop.
Speaker 3: This looks like a supermodel.
Speaker 5: But you know that they can pull those up. I
Speaker 5: mean I get pictures to sign today that I don't
Speaker 5: even know where that picture came from and that I
Speaker 5: haven't even seen. I don't know today on the internet. Yeah,
Speaker 5: everything's possible.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no privacy, right, but also nice little memories I
Speaker 1: saw on your Instagram. People are like sending you old
Speaker 1: videos of you dancing and do it like, you know,
Speaker 1: it's kind of nice that that stuff exists.
Speaker 5: Yeah, some of those are quite you know. The last
Speaker 5: one I didn't even remember. I don't know it was
Speaker 5: mascara or lashes.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 5: I wanted me dancing, which I loved because that was
Speaker 5: my beginnings and possibilities that moment in time in New York,
Speaker 5: and I loved every minute of it.
Speaker 2: Dancing being a ballerine in New York is very few
Speaker 2: people get to do that it's very cool.
Speaker 5: Well, I didn't really get to be in the New
Speaker 5: York City ballet guys, but I did study and with
Speaker 5: the best, and I thought I would go home to Houston,
Speaker 5: Texas and open a ballet school and teach. But life
Speaker 5: takes turns and a different career happened for me. And
Speaker 5: I think my parents only let me go to New
Speaker 5: York because they thought, oh, she'll go, she'll get tired
Speaker 5: of it, she'll come back and oops. It was hard
Speaker 5: at first because I was so close to home and
Speaker 5: my family, but I stayed two months, went home and thought,
Speaker 5: you know what, I'm going back, and that's when I
Speaker 5: really started to have a career.
Speaker 1: Wow. I wanted to ask one more quick question because
Speaker 1: you were mentioning zoom and like that different, Like the
Speaker 1: difference between like zoom and putting yourself on tape for
Speaker 1: auditions is just different. Then, because you've been acting since
Speaker 1: the seventies, so you've seen the industry go through these huge,
Speaker 1: huge changes, and I was just wondering, how, like, are
Speaker 1: any other observations of like how it's changed for women
Speaker 1: or just in your experience.
Speaker 5: Well, me too changed everything. I mean I think, yeah,
Speaker 5: I think things are different. That's one thing I think
Speaker 5: is good about Sex and the City. Older you know,
Speaker 5: older actresses going back and you know, reacquainted with a
Speaker 5: different chapter in their life is always an interesting thing.
Speaker 5: But I the industry is different because there's so many options.
Speaker 5: There's cable, there's Yeah, it's totally different than when I start. Totally.
Speaker 5: It's quicker, it's less expensive, the camera work. So yeah,
Speaker 5: I think I was lucky to be on a show
Speaker 5: where they're in spelling and Lynn Goldberg where they didn't
Speaker 5: I mean everything. It was the best camera's, the best lighting,
Speaker 5: the best wardrobe, the best What you see is what
Speaker 5: you get. I mean, you know, it was kind of
Speaker 5: a wonderful time to be in television. Not that today isn't.
Speaker 5: It's just different. It's totally different.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Do you have like any projects coming up causes you support,
Speaker 1: anything happening with the Jacqueline Smith line that you want
Speaker 1: to like just shout out to our listeners.
Speaker 5: I have something in the works that I can't talk
Speaker 5: about yet.
Speaker 3: I love that.
Speaker 5: Yeah, And I have a book I'm working on. And
Speaker 5: then I have a skincare line my husband does have
Speaker 5: retin all in it Anti aging gold Standard and then
Speaker 5: I have a wig line. I'm shooting this Sunday, in fact,
Speaker 5: with my daughter. She's coming in to do it with me,
Speaker 5: which gives, you know, two different ages. And these wigs.
Speaker 5: It's for Paula Young and I have a fabric line
Speaker 5: with Fabricut. My line is called Trend because my passion
Speaker 5: is home. It's my favorite place in the whole wide world.
Speaker 5: I love decorating, I love doing houses, and so I
Speaker 5: have this line that's quite you know everything I think
Speaker 5: I've done, the wigs, the fabric, the skincare is affordable.
Speaker 5: My customer counts on value for me, and I think
Speaker 5: we've worked at where you know, certainly my skin cares
Speaker 5: online and we can lower the price. This new thing
Speaker 5: I haven't in the works. We will be reaching out
Speaker 5: to stores. I just can't talk about it yet until
Speaker 5: you know.
Speaker 3: We love secrets.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, secrets are good. Anticipation is good. But the
Speaker 5: skincares my my husband, being a pediatric heart surgeon and doctor,
Speaker 5: he developed it with things I have used on my
Speaker 5: skin for you know, fifty years long.
Speaker 3: Working and well, thank you. I know we were going
Speaker 3: to wrap up, but I'm curious how you and your
Speaker 3: husband met.
Speaker 5: We met in Cla. He operated on my dad, who
Speaker 5: was here for my son's birthday. Dady got sick and
Speaker 5: he was in the hospital and Brad was one of
Speaker 5: the surgeons. He did a quordrouple bypass and so there
Speaker 5: he was and whoa. I didn't think anything was going
Speaker 5: to go in the direction it went, but.
Speaker 3: It did.
Speaker 5: And he was very kind to my parents, and he's
Speaker 5: my mother never wanted me to walk down to the
Speaker 5: garage by myself. He said, I'll walk her down and
Speaker 5: he did, and he said, can I take you to dinner?
Speaker 5: And that was it. It was very different. He was
Speaker 5: not a Hollywood height and he was very unfettered and
Speaker 5: different than anybody I'd ever known, still is still is
Speaker 5: many many years later.
Speaker 3: That's great.
Speaker 5: It's been a great step dad to my children. So
Speaker 5: you know, that's the best gift he could get me.
Speaker 3: That's amazing.
Speaker 1: Well, you know, we do have a we do have
Speaker 1: a casting person from SVU who listens to our podcast.
Speaker 1: So I would love to know if you were invited back,
Speaker 1: would you be open to going back on.
Speaker 5: Us for you? Absolutely?
Speaker 1: All right?
Speaker 5: Good to how to write me great part?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 5: Okay, yeah, I love the show. So yeah, I'm a fan.
Speaker 1: So yeah, because I think you could really play like
Speaker 1: a rich lady with a secret.
Speaker 5: Okay, I'm for it. Yeah, more works, better keeps you young,
Speaker 5: Work keeps you young.
Speaker 3: Oh my god. I love Jacqueline Smith. Can she be
Speaker 3: my mom?
Speaker 1: She's her little husband puttering around and correcting her and
Speaker 1: giving her little tidbits about her own career.
Speaker 3: So cute.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I can't believe we got to talk to her.
Speaker 2: It's really like, what the fuck?
Speaker 3: Yeah? So one of Neil Bear's ladies.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, we got one of the Neil Bear angels.
Speaker 1: Uh and legit a Charlie's Angel, but it's an icon.
Speaker 2: There's some people Sometimes I sit back and I'm like, damn,
Speaker 2: what the fuck?
Speaker 3: Just like Jacqueline Smith and lou Diamond Phillips. Who are
Speaker 3: we Tom's Scaret on Zoom?
Speaker 1: Yeah. It's like the number of people that I just
Speaker 1: grew up watching that we've talked to is pretty wild.
Speaker 1: But people, they don't I don't think they ever anyone
Speaker 1: means it insulting. I think they're genuinely curious. But I
Speaker 1: love when people go, yeah, how'd you get them? I'm
Speaker 1: shocked that I saw them on Okay, Joel Kim. It
Speaker 1: was about Dennis o' harry goes.
Speaker 2: Honestly, I was really shocked to see that he did it,
Speaker 2: and I was like, Dennis O'Hair.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like, adjust your expectations of us, JKB, we're
Speaker 1: getting people anyway. Post mortem on this episode, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I can't say we learned a lot of lessons, Like
Speaker 1: this fucking episode is one of the wildest things in
Speaker 1: the world, like the love triangles, the hiding a man
Speaker 1: with a melted face. I can't say that there's a
Speaker 1: lot of real world translation, but the killer guy being
Speaker 1: right in plain sight as like a sick dandrophy murderer
Speaker 1: was pretty scary.
Speaker 2: My favorite is Anne Margaret being the killer eight times,
Speaker 2: but not like it was like I did it, but
Speaker 2: this it's like she gave us a performance of a life.
Speaker 5: Well.
Speaker 1: I think we learned that sometimes being a little bit
Speaker 1: crazy pays off, Like because she fucking kept those bloody sheets,
Speaker 1: that was a good like everything was her alibi because
Speaker 1: she was such a nut, like.
Speaker 3: She loved him.
Speaker 2: I loved the cutaways where it was like we talked
Speaker 2: about this obviously, but where it was like it was
Speaker 2: a mistake. It was a mistake. It was a mistake,
Speaker 2: and then her going I fucking loved it and I
Speaker 2: would do.
Speaker 3: It like I'll see.
Speaker 1: I loved how jacque Line Smith told us that that's
Speaker 1: the part she was going for, and I think she
Speaker 1: probably could have done excellent with it, but like it
Speaker 1: really ended up perfect. The casting, like her as the
Speaker 1: what do you know about it, you bitch? Like I mean,
Speaker 1: one of the best moments of all time on SVU,
Speaker 1: just her calling the Queen Benson a bitch.
Speaker 2: And in terms of the real life case, for me,
Speaker 2: the biggest takeaway is like nothing is real and I
Speaker 2: don't know what's right or wrong or what happens, Like
Speaker 2: that guy spent sixteen years in prison. Was it a
Speaker 2: false thing? Did he attack his wife? We don't know.
Speaker 3: Maybe he was an abuser but not a murderer, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, It's just like how things are not always so oh.
Speaker 3: I want to say.
Speaker 2: So, I was asked to go into jury duty recently,
Speaker 2: but it's in Illinois, so I couldn't. So I'm going
Speaker 2: to send in documents. I got a switch. I mean
Speaker 2: the fact that I still have an Illinois license. I
Speaker 2: have not lived in Illinois for eight years.
Speaker 3: I would.
Speaker 2: I just refuse. I don't know, it's just listen, regular
Speaker 2: tasks stress me out. But so I wrote them, I'm like,
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, I would obviously like to do my service,
Speaker 2: but I'm I'm actually going to be out of town
Speaker 2: for work and this and that and I live here.
Speaker 2: Responded within a day, going yep, you're relieved, we'll hit
Speaker 2: you back in eleven weeks.
Speaker 3: Send us this paper.
Speaker 2: Work, like you hear so much shit about jury duty
Speaker 2: and the government, and I was like, this is the
Speaker 2: best customer service I've ever had, which.
Speaker 3: Wow, I'm surprised you were able.
Speaker 1: That might be a COVID thing that you were able
Speaker 1: to email, because usually you have to like show up
Speaker 1: and say I can't do it, and then that's the
Speaker 1: pain in the end with jury duty.
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe, I mean, hopefully things will change and they don't.
Speaker 2: Won't go back to psycho that.
Speaker 1: I just had it in LA I just had it
Speaker 1: like a few months ago. But it was like, because
Speaker 1: of COVID, everything's online, so you show up every day,
Speaker 1: you check in at a certain time, and then it
Speaker 1: goes you don't you don't have to do anything, and
Speaker 1: then you check in the next day. You do that
Speaker 1: for a full week and every day it just said
Speaker 1: you don't have to do anything, and then that's it.
Speaker 3: I guess I just did my jury duty like service,
Speaker 3: but no, I want a me too.
Speaker 2: I just need to become a California resident, I think
Speaker 2: so then I can maybe do jury duty here while
Speaker 2: I'm here.
Speaker 3: I don't know I have I don't know what to do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I do think you should get a California license. Also,
Speaker 1: if you get pulled over, tell them you just moved here.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, telling you.
Speaker 1: I stupidly said, oh, I've been here six months, and
Speaker 1: they were like, you're going to court.
Speaker 2: I would say, I don't even live here. I'm gonna
Speaker 2: be like, I stay at a I swap with a friend.
Speaker 2: Get away from me. No, look, your name is on
Speaker 2: the registration of your car. They're not totally any oh
Speaker 2: is it.
Speaker 3: Anyway?
Speaker 1: Let's this was a great episode. I'm so happy we
Speaker 1: did it. It's psychotic.
Speaker 3: But let's get into what would Sister Peg do? Psychotic,
Speaker 3: iconic or what would Sister Peg do? This week?
Speaker 1: Which is our weekly segment where we give you guys
Speaker 1: some information or an organization, a book, an article, something
Speaker 1: to give you more info about what we talked about
Speaker 1: in today's episode. Listen today's episode. I didn't really see
Speaker 1: a lot of real world application to it. It's like
Speaker 1: a full crazy commercial man who's got seven girlfriends and
Speaker 1: then someone's keeping a melted man in her apartment. It
Speaker 1: just didn't really like nothing jumped out to me as
Speaker 1: something that would like be like pro victim. But I
Speaker 1: wanted to shout out today an organization that connects to
Speaker 1: Melissa Lucio, who I talked about at the beginning of
Speaker 1: the episode. We've already mentioned her Whole Truth, which is
Speaker 1: an instagram. They're doing a lot for it to help Melissa,
Speaker 1: so you can check that out. Hopefully you follow them already.
Speaker 1: But this organization was sent to me by A and
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry I forgot to save your message. I
Speaker 1: just saved the organization that you sent me, so I
Speaker 1: can't shout you out, but thank you for sending this
Speaker 1: to me. So this organization is called Advancing Real Change.
Speaker 1: It's www. Dot advance change dot org and they're in
Speaker 1: an organization of mitigation specialists that help decision makers see
Speaker 1: a fuller, more nuanced picture of every person facing incarcerations.
Speaker 3: So that's their background.
Speaker 1: Abuse they've experienced, you know, like childhood trauma, trauma as
Speaker 1: an adult. It just paints a bigger picture and not
Speaker 1: just like this is a criminal and more, this is
Speaker 1: a person that could use rehabilitation and help. So as
Speaker 1: a result, they enable more just outcomes that take the
Speaker 1: whole person into account. So if you want to support
Speaker 1: them or even work for them, they have employment and
Speaker 1: internship opportunities on their website. They also have a bunch
Speaker 1: of workshops and trainings listed. Please check them out at
Speaker 1: advance change dot org. And again, these are always on
Speaker 1: our Instagram and in our Instagram highlight called WWSPD. Thank
Speaker 1: you so much for that Karay, what a terrible time
Speaker 1: and hopefully she will not be murdered.
Speaker 3: Now moving on to next week's news next week, we
Speaker 3: will be next week. This is a PSA.
Speaker 2: You gotta get eight hours of sleep, okay, so we
Speaker 2: will be watching Chasing Demons for next week's episode. That's
Speaker 2: season nineteen, episode fourteen. Please watch along with us or not,
Speaker 2: and we will see you next week.
Speaker 3: Thank you guys so much for listening by tour tickets. Bye.
Speaker 2: That's Messed Up is an exactly right production.
Speaker 1: If you have compliments you'd like to give us or
Speaker 1: episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email
Speaker 1: at thots Messed Up Pod at gmail dot com.
Speaker 2: Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod
Speaker 2: and on Twitter at messed Up Pod, and follow us
Speaker 2: personally at Kara Clank and at glitter Cheese.
Speaker 1: As always, please see our show notes for sources and
Speaker 1: more information.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much to our producer Annalise Snelson and
Speaker 2: to our mixing engineer RYO Baum Anton Henry Kaperski for
Speaker 2: our theme song, and to Carly Jean Andrews for our artwork.
Speaker 2: Thank you to our executive producers Georgia Hardstark, Karen Kilgarriff,
Speaker 2: Daniel Kramer, and everyone at Exactly Right Media. Listen, subscribe,
Speaker 2: and leave us a review on Apple podcast, Stitcher, or
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Speaker 3: Dun, dun,