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Speaker 1: This is Wins and Losses with Clay Trevis. Play talks

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Speaker 1: with the most entertaining people in sports, entertainment and business.

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Speaker 1: Now here's Clay Trevis. Welcome in the Wins and Losses podcast.

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Speaker 1: This is episode three. If you haven't listened to the

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Speaker 1: first two, I think you guys will really enjoy it.

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Speaker 1: We had Jason Whitlock on episode one from FS one

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Speaker 1: Speak for Yourself Episode two, the founder of Rivals and

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Speaker 1: seven Shannon Terry, incredible entrepreneur, who saw entrepreneur who sold

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Speaker 1: both of those for over a hundred million dollars to

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Speaker 1: Yahoo and CBS respectively. Goal of the Wins and Losses

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Speaker 1: podcast is to try and figure out how you ended

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Speaker 1: up where you did, and also focus just as much

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Speaker 1: on some of the losses you had along the way

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Speaker 1: as the winds. It's easy to focus on success, but

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Speaker 1: I think that oftentimes when we learned much more from

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Speaker 1: the losses along the way. We're joined today for our

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Speaker 1: third episode by SEC Commissioner Greg Sanky. You can find

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Speaker 1: him on Twitter at Greg Sanky and tell him what

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Speaker 1: a fabulous job you think he has done as SEC Commissioner,

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Speaker 1: because he gets a lot of hate on there and

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Speaker 1: I want you guys to flood him with love. Uh,

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Speaker 1: Greg Sanky, are you excited to be the third guest

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Speaker 1: on the Wins and Losses podcast? Um? I was on

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Speaker 1: the first day of your radio broadcast, so I have

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Speaker 1: slipped two notches. That's right, you did come on the

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Speaker 1: first time. We didn't get the coverage. I remember that

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Speaker 1: was outstanding. Well. No, I don't know what where our

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Speaker 1: relationship has gone awry, but it's worth noting. So I

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Speaker 1: to make a point there. I could also have multiple

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Speaker 1: guests on the radio show, so we weren't the only

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Speaker 1: guest on the radio show that day, but you didn't

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Speaker 1: make the top three, which would get you a bronze medal.

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Speaker 1: Um and as an important part of this this program.

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Speaker 1: So for people who don't know you, uh, you can

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Speaker 1: find him on Twitter and again i'd encourage you to

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Speaker 1: follow him on Twitter at Greg Sanky. Always encourage people

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Speaker 1: to let us know also what you think of these interviews.

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Speaker 1: Feedback has been phenomenal so far, and I think both

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Speaker 1: shanit Terry and Jason Whitlock have appreciated you guys reaching

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Speaker 1: out and saying you've been listening. Uh. But Gregg, thank

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Speaker 1: you. You You are the secugmission are taking you over for

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Speaker 1: Mike's Live. And for a lot of people, that's where

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Speaker 1: they started to pay attention to your career, right, That's

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Speaker 1: where they suddenly became aware that that you were at

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Speaker 1: the SEC office. The step up from number two to

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Speaker 1: number one can be massive, and we'll get to that

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Speaker 1: for a minute. But before that, you grew up where

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Speaker 1: What was your life like when you were a young guy. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I grew up as born in a place called Auburn,

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Speaker 1: New York, which is ironic given that a city where

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Speaker 1: I was born bears the name of one of the

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Speaker 1: universities in the Southeastern Conference. That's about thirty miles west

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Speaker 1: of Syracuse, in the Finger Lakes region, as it's known,

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Speaker 1: which is pleasant in the summertime and not so nice

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Speaker 1: in January and February. Do you remember, Uh, you grew

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Speaker 1: up there, so you you're Did you remember watching any

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Speaker 1: SEC sporting events when you were growing up in in

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Speaker 1: that region? Yeah? Probably the first times would have been

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Speaker 1: an n c A men's basketball tournament games. Uh, And

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Speaker 1: then you know football games through the the old n

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Speaker 1: c A package. People forget and and you know, if

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Speaker 1: any people probably listening to the podcast. Don't realize that

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Speaker 1: back in the seventies and early eighties, the n t

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Speaker 1: A controlled all of college football TV, so there was

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Speaker 1: a scarcity of of games on television. So I would

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Speaker 1: have watched and when I when I start to have memories,

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Speaker 1: probably late teen years, specifically of football games. Uh, you

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Speaker 1: know Alabama Penn State National Championship game. Um. But Georgia

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Speaker 1: when they won with herschel Walker and eighty um, those

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Speaker 1: would probably be more resonant for me as it relates

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Speaker 1: to the Southeastern Conference. Syracuse University being three miles away,

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Speaker 1: captured more of the attention at that time in my life.

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Speaker 1: So what sports did you play growing up? I played,

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Speaker 1: you know, whatever I could. So as as a young kid,

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Speaker 1: played baseball, basketball, and ice hockey. Um, the ice hockey

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Speaker 1: career ended and junior high as I grew to be

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Speaker 1: over six ft tall, so basketball took over. So baseball

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Speaker 1: and basketball we're focused sports for me. And what were

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Speaker 1: you best at? Oh, you know, it depends on what

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Speaker 1: what level. There was probably a time, you know, high

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Speaker 1: school basketball was pretty good. I played junior college basketball.

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Speaker 1: I played baseball in college as well. I love the

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Speaker 1: game of baseball. Um, but that doesn't doesn't relate to

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Speaker 1: proficiency necessarily. What position do you play in baseball? Catcher?

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Speaker 1: What was your what was your strength? Yeah? What was

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Speaker 1: your strength? Dis catcher? Um, warming up pictures in the bullpen?

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Speaker 1: So you were not on the field that much. I

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Speaker 1: was in college as a backup catcher my freshman year. Um,

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Speaker 1: and so I was. I had caught a knuckleball with regularity,

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Speaker 1: which is interesting if you've never had that experience. Uh,

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Speaker 1: you learn how to pay attention the whole way through

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Speaker 1: the pitch motion until it lands in your glove. Literally. Um,

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Speaker 1: that's okay defensively, But I was a backup catcher. Uh,

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Speaker 1: probably learned a few leadership lessons through that, and I

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Speaker 1: could bring some energy and enthusiasm to a team. Where

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Speaker 1: did you go to school? So you go to college

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Speaker 1: where and also in New York? Yeah? No, all over Actually,

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Speaker 1: so all this discussion about transfers is relevant in my life.

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Speaker 1: I started out at a small college. I was studying

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Speaker 1: electrical engineering in Texas called Laternal College. How in the

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Speaker 1: world do you end up there? I? Well, my dad is.

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Speaker 1: My dad's a welder. He's a Union pipe fitter. Worked

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Speaker 1: on the construction job for fifty plush years and worked

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Speaker 1: around engineers and wanted to have a son who was

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Speaker 1: an engineer. UM, and so I was the firstborn, so

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Speaker 1: I was the first to have the chance to take

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Speaker 1: a run at that experience, and uh studied that for

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Speaker 1: a couple of years. Wanted to go to Texas. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's time to live an adventure. Grown up in upstate

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Speaker 1: New York. So it was pretty good engineering school, small

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Speaker 1: private college, and that's what put me there. And then

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Speaker 1: after a year and a half, I'm like, do I

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Speaker 1: really want to be an engineer? I had a uh

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Speaker 1: an engineering lab electrical engineering lab every Friday afternoon at

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Speaker 1: like four o'clock. And from your college days, I assume

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Speaker 1: you can understand that going to an engineering lab and

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Speaker 1: studying circuitry at four pm on Fridays did not exactly

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Speaker 1: make my heart beat faster. And it just really more

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Speaker 1: than that, just started ing raising questions in my mind

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Speaker 1: about what is it that I want to do and why?

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Speaker 1: And so I ended up back in New York at

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Speaker 1: a at a community college, junior college, UM, kind of

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Speaker 1: recalibrating state and engineering and then said, you know what,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna be a teacher and coach went into education

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Speaker 1: about graduating from Courtland State State University of New York

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Speaker 1: System College at Cortland. I call it Courtland State and

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Speaker 1: that was about an hour from where I grew up,

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Speaker 1: and it was pretty uh, pretty much a utilitarian experience

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Speaker 1: for me. I could do that, and I wanted to

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Speaker 1: get into coaching at that point, so coached some baseball

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Speaker 1: and junior high in high school basketball and ran a

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Speaker 1: recreation program, just trying to to build a resume really

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Speaker 1: early on. So this is like eighties sight seven. So

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Speaker 1: when you went to Texas from upstate New York, first

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Speaker 1: of all, the weather probably had to blow your mind

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Speaker 1: how hot it was. But was that an unbelievable culture

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Speaker 1: shock for you at that time? Because I I, for

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Speaker 1: people out there listening right now, when I went away

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Speaker 1: from Nashville to Washington, d C. To go to college,

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Speaker 1: it was a big culture shock for me. And I

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Speaker 1: feel like kids are more as as you know, the

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Speaker 1: ages have have grown, They're more technologically astute, they're more

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Speaker 1: aware of maybe what what different parts of the country

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Speaker 1: are like. But that had to be wild for you

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Speaker 1: to go from upstate New York to Texas, right well,

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Speaker 1: First of all, I remember I was catching in baseball

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Speaker 1: and it's like a hundred and two degrees putting on

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Speaker 1: you know, chest protector, shin guards and a mask to

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Speaker 1: sweat in and like, so that was a shock. I

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Speaker 1: can vividly remember the first time I played in a

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Speaker 1: fall baseball game, because you used to play fall games,

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Speaker 1: and just like we're playing in a hundred and two

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Speaker 1: degree heat and you have on the tools of ignorance

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Speaker 1: as they're known, and just sweating profusely and yeah, you know,

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Speaker 1: culture shak. I was trying to figure out, you know,

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Speaker 1: how to survive in in college and trigonometry and Eldra

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Speaker 1: and then calculus, so that was really my focus. But

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Speaker 1: I vividly remember kind of being wide eyed that I

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Speaker 1: was in Texas. But also, you know, there are a

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Speaker 1: lot of Baptist churches around, and there as many Catholic churches.

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Speaker 1: And in New York there are a lot of Catholic

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Speaker 1: churches and as many Baptist churches. So those are like

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Speaker 1: the quick impressions. You said your dad was a welder.

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Speaker 1: Did you guys travel very much when you were growing up. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's a really insightful question. Um, given that that that work. Um, no,

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Speaker 1: we were really fortunate. So my dad's dad did, you know,

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Speaker 1: travel around from job to job across the country and

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Speaker 1: and he didn't settle down until he was in high

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Speaker 1: school with my dad, uh in the in the mid

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Speaker 1: fifties and then late fifties actually, and then most of

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Speaker 1: his life was in that central New York area. There

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Speaker 1: was enough work with power plants, some nuclear power plants,

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Speaker 1: gas fired coal fired power plants, along with gas lines

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Speaker 1: and building that, um, we didn't have to have kind

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Speaker 1: of the camper life that that some others did. In fact,

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Speaker 1: he spent six months in the late sixties working in

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Speaker 1: Korea on pipelines and we had a family film of

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Speaker 1: you know, they literally took steel pipe twenty four in

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Speaker 1: steel pipe and put it on the backs of you

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Speaker 1: know workers, the Korean people who would carry it and

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Speaker 1: put it in the ditch where we had side booms

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Speaker 1: and bulldozers and backhoes to do that work. Um, and

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Speaker 1: they're like livestock moving pipe and equip in those those

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Speaker 1: films in the late sixties. Um, So that was really

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Speaker 1: the only time that he spent time away. It was

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Speaker 1: it was a good thing for us that, um, you know,

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Speaker 1: we had a stable life and they still live in

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Speaker 1: in upstate New York and has worked in the same

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Speaker 1: UH United Association Plumbers and Pipe Fitters local union for

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Speaker 1: you know, fifty plus years. You didn't know it then,

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Speaker 1: but do you think having a blue collar background in

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Speaker 1: terms of what your dad did has helped you to

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Speaker 1: connect a little bit better with a lot of athletes

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Speaker 1: who certainly are coming into the Southeastern Conference now who

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Speaker 1: aren't all coming from you know, white collar backgrounds, right,

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Speaker 1: I mean the people are coming in. Well, I think

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Speaker 1: there's a couple of things as far as and it

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Speaker 1: particularly relates to the theme of the podcast, you know,

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Speaker 1: kind of what got you here? So two summers when

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Speaker 1: I was in college, actually worked on the construction projects

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Speaker 1: at nuclear plants, which sounds kind of like Homer Simpson, Mr.

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Speaker 1: Burn right, But literally, UM spent those summers. You made

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Speaker 1: great money. It was a lug and tug crew. You're

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Speaker 1: picking things up and getting it ready to prepare. You

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Speaker 1: obviously weren't doing anything that it had a long term

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Speaker 1: functional or safety issue involved. But you know, it was

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Speaker 1: ten hour days, so I had to drive an hour

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Speaker 1: to work in a place called Oswego, New York, and

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Speaker 1: it was an hour up. You had to be in

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Speaker 1: place at seven am, and you worked until five thirty,

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Speaker 1: and you work in six days a week, and uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, you had time and a half and and

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Speaker 1: double time over like fifty hours. So when you're n

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Speaker 1: years old, that's great. But I saw that life. You

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Speaker 1: asked me about where people kind of boomers boom from

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Speaker 1: lines that was shared to me by one of my

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Speaker 1: co workers is, you don't know what pressure is like

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Speaker 1: until you've got your wife and your kids in the

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Speaker 1: order to get a paycheck the next week. And people

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Speaker 1: ask me about pressure, and there's pressure in this job.

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Speaker 1: There's visibility that's not present for a welder. I also

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Speaker 1: learned a really important lesson. Like the first year I've

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Speaker 1: been up there, two months, I woke up, I was sicker,

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Speaker 1: in one of those summer colds, just sore throw I said,

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Speaker 1: I'm not not going to be able to go in today.

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Speaker 1: My dad was working a different job. He was up early,

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Speaker 1: and he looked at me and said, that's okay, just

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Speaker 1: calm telling you won't be in UH today or the

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Speaker 1: rest of the summer. That that can't make it the

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Speaker 1: day that I went back and put on my work clothes,

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Speaker 1: bought a box of tissues and a gallant orange juice,

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Speaker 1: and I made it through the day, and you learn

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Speaker 1: a little bit about a work ethic and those circumstances.

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Speaker 1: So you said that you came out thinking you were

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Speaker 1: going to coach, and we're talking to SEC Commissioner Greg

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Speaker 1: Sanky here on the Winds and Losses podcast. You said

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Speaker 1: you came out thinking you were going to coach basketball, baseball,

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Speaker 1: whatever it was. Did you have a target of what

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Speaker 1: you thought you were going to do. Yeah, I thought

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Speaker 1: i'd end up UM coaching basketball is my my my

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Speaker 1: focused at the high school level. First, My my field

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Speaker 1: of vision for that point in my life was if

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Speaker 1: he drew a three hour circle around Syracuse, New York,

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Speaker 1: probably not much more north, but over to Aubany, Buffalo,

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Speaker 1: down towards Binghamton, the Pennsylvania boarder. I figured I'd teach

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Speaker 1: in some school there, initially UM and then coach, and

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Speaker 1: my dream of dreams I used to think about. In fact,

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Speaker 1: my senior year in college, I was an assistant varsity

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Speaker 1: coach for a large school in boys basketball, and they

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Speaker 1: talked about talked about going to the Final four and

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Speaker 1: you know, sleeping six to a room. So like I

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Speaker 1: was like, man, someday I could get to go to

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Speaker 1: the Final four, and uh, maybe I could be like

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Speaker 1: a Division three coach. In fact, John bee Line, who

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Speaker 1: just took the Cleveland Cavaliers job, was coaching at a

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Speaker 1: Division to college in Syracuseton. I'd go watch his games

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Speaker 1: back in the mid eighties, had a friend who was

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Speaker 1: an assistant coach on his staff. Um and his career

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Speaker 1: is probably one that would have been the template for me,

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Speaker 1: because he went high school to junior college, to smaller

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Speaker 1: college and then uplod chain of Division one. But I

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Speaker 1: could see my initial job, which never materialized by the way,

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Speaker 1: I ended up right out of college going to work

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Speaker 1: at a college setting, which recast the direction of my

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Speaker 1: career and literally my life. So what happens then you

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Speaker 1: graduate your thinking you might try and be a high

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Speaker 1: school basketball coach, that's an ambition in your life, and instead,

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Speaker 1: like a lot of people out there, you graduate from

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Speaker 1: college and maybe you find a job doing something different

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Speaker 1: than you had anticipated. What was that job. Yeah, I was.

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Speaker 1: I became the director of intramural sports at Utica College

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Speaker 1: in Utica, New York. And if you're old enough to

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Speaker 1: remember the light beer commercials ken Brett what one time

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Speaker 1: was in the less Filling Taste great commercial and ends

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Speaker 1: with Utica Utica George's brother. So there's a minor league

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Speaker 1: team and he had been traded enough. But UH literally

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Speaker 1: applied through a newspaper for classified ad. That's that was

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Speaker 1: my source. It wasn't like I didn't know anybody. I

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Speaker 1: just sent a letter and a resume in to a

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Speaker 1: classified ad right out of college. And I was sending,

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Speaker 1: as you can imagine, resumes all over UH to to

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Speaker 1: grab a job. And I was invited to interview. And

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Speaker 1: I had actually two job offers. One was coaching women's

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Speaker 1: basketball at the junior college and teaching, and then this

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Speaker 1: intermural job. And I took the intermural job because I

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Speaker 1: was able to attend Syracuse University on remitted tuitions. I

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Speaker 1: worked full time and then every Wednesday I drive a

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Speaker 1: little over an hour to Syracuse go to two classes,

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Speaker 1: you know, to like three hour classes and one day

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Speaker 1: and UH took two years and did the bulk of

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Speaker 1: my master's work that way, and UM one of the

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Speaker 1: really key decisions. I took the job, and I was

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Speaker 1: gonna wait a year to uh to start my graduate program.

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Speaker 1: I've been in college. I had taken five years to

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Speaker 1: finish four year program because of my transfers and trying

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Speaker 1: to figure it out. And UH, I said to my boss,

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Speaker 1: he said, one day, were an' you going to start

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Speaker 1: your graduate program? I said, well, I'm gonna wait a year.

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Speaker 1: And he gave me the best advice of my career,

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Speaker 1: which was he said, if you don't start now, you

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Speaker 1: never will. So I went ahead and enrolled and started,

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Speaker 1: and that just started a sequence of events from a

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Speaker 1: timing standpoint that were critically important to the opportunities that

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Speaker 1: have unfolded for me. How much did you get paid?

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Speaker 1: Do you remember at that first job, supervisor? Fifteen grand

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Speaker 1: a year before taxes and uh. That was a time

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Speaker 1: period where remitted tuition had generally not been taxed. But

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Speaker 1: I was fortunate for by two years of remitted tuition

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Speaker 1: at a private university for a master's agree to also

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Speaker 1: be taxed on that tuition benefits. So I would work

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Speaker 1: weekends on the facility to supervise because I paid a

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Speaker 1: little bit extra, like an hourly wage whatever it was

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Speaker 1: five bucks an hour, just you know, trying to make

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Speaker 1: it work. So what did you do is intermural supervisor?

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Speaker 1: Did you actually ref games? Did you put together like

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Speaker 1: the sports? I mean that what exactly was your day

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Speaker 1: to day when you were doing that job. Yeah. I

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Speaker 1: showed up at like ten in the morning, and I

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Speaker 1: had to teach some some classes, but I'd be there

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Speaker 1: till ten or eleven at night every every day of

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Speaker 1: the week, and then depending on sports season, maybe till midnight.

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Speaker 1: I put together the whole program, so you'd play flag

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Speaker 1: football and volleyball, and and I just it was a

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Speaker 1: creative opportunity had someone but they basically said, okay, here

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Speaker 1: it is. And I had never planned on doing this work,

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Speaker 1: but had had played intermurals in college, and and whether

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Speaker 1: I was playing intermurals or running this program, I learned

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Speaker 1: a key lesson which helps me today, which is, when

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Speaker 1: you're like nineteen and twenty years old, you will tear

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Speaker 1: your friends arms off to win an intermural championship, which

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Speaker 1: is very to college students. It is a universal truth

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Speaker 1: which which you know we face ethical challenges in the

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Speaker 1: way fifty and sixty year old coaches conduct themselves, and

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Speaker 1: it shouldn't surprise us. That's that that's the case if

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Speaker 1: when they're nineteen and twenty, they're gonna do whatever. So

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Speaker 1: you know, that was officiating. I learned a lot. I

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Speaker 1: had the schedule sports and schedule the gym. I oversaw

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Speaker 1: a facility with a pool and racquetball courts and weight

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Speaker 1: rooms and kind of made it all work. I was

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Speaker 1: the the very low person on the totem pole who

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Speaker 1: was like, okay, you run the facility. You make sure

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Speaker 1: it's open on weekends, that we've got lifeguards, and you know,

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Speaker 1: things are set up for games. And I was a

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Speaker 1: p a announcer for Division three basketball for a couple

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Speaker 1: of years as well. I'm just kind of whatever opportunity

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Speaker 1: was there. I took the mindset that that I'd say

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Speaker 1: yes because it would provide a learning opportunity. So are

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Speaker 1: you a single guy at this point running as a

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Speaker 1: rector of intermurals. So how long? How long did you

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Speaker 1: keep that job? Two years in fact, so this was

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Speaker 1: graduate from college in seven and graduated in May and

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Speaker 1: started that job August one. Um I was a lifeguard

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Speaker 1: on a UH at the sailing club on a lake,

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Speaker 1: which sounds more prestigious than it was. But I, you know,

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Speaker 1: had enough money to put gas in the tank and

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Speaker 1: put a deposit down on an apartment. Started in August

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Speaker 1: and then my wife now then I were dating and

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Speaker 1: uh November of eight, which clearly shows I didn't have

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Speaker 1: a vision for being the commissioner of the Southeastern Conference.

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Speaker 1: Because our wedding anniversary falls on the Alabama l s

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Speaker 1: U weekend every year. So if I'd gone back to then,

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Speaker 1: like if we could go back in time to suit

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Speaker 1: us we Go, I think, right is the school. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: working at us we Go, though, I show up at

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Speaker 1: inter Murals and I walk into your office and inter

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Speaker 1: Murals one morning and I said, Hey, I think you

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Speaker 1: got a shot to one day be the commissioner of

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Speaker 1: a conference. Your response would have been what um? Seriously,

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Speaker 1: because that was not even on the radar screen. I

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Speaker 1: will say a couple of things that I did then

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Speaker 1: that were really um, there was some foresight there by happenstance.

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Speaker 1: One is I bought an n C A rule manual

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Speaker 1: because I was in grad school. I was in like

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Speaker 1: it was really higher education master's degree, but they called

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Speaker 1: an athletic administration or something like that, and so I

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Speaker 1: started I read, like from cover to cover the n

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Speaker 1: say A rule book, so I became familiar with that

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Speaker 1: regular regulatory structure. I also worked at a place that

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Speaker 1: was moving from Division one back to Division three. So

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Speaker 1: a guy named Larry Costello. I came to know. Larry

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Speaker 1: had played in the NBA coach the Milwaukee Bucks when

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Speaker 1: Kareem played and they won an NBA championship in the

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Speaker 1: early seventies. I mean, this is he's a Hall of Famer,

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Speaker 1: just a phenomenal person. And so I got to be

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Speaker 1: around people who had been in college sports or in

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Speaker 1: professional sports at a higher level. So you know, I

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Speaker 1: read this manual, I learned and got to be around

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Speaker 1: people have had some sophistication and sport and then, um,

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Speaker 1: I mean the master's program kind of devouring every piece

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Speaker 1: of information about intercollegiate athletics that I could. So there

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Speaker 1: was this kind of a flicker of a flame where

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't have said you're crazy. I would have said, seriously,

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Speaker 1: if you had come in and made that type of

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Speaker 1: prediction that how many people do you think at that

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Speaker 1: time had even read the n C double a manual,

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Speaker 1: not many because it was really awkwardly written at the right.

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Speaker 1: So this was right around you know, SMU death penalty time. Um,

401
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Speaker 1: you know, len Bias at Maryland had passed away, which

402
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Speaker 1: which resulted in a thorough review of circumstances there. Uh,

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Speaker 1: you can go back and find this whole pay for

404
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Speaker 1: play debate and some of my my master's observations, master's documents, papers,

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Speaker 1: whatever you may call them. Just the comparison. I was

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Speaker 1: kind of a ravenous consumer of information at that time,

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Speaker 1: and it was the printed materials, sports illustrated, Sporting News,

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Speaker 1: Sport magazine had a lot of long form, in depth reporting,

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Speaker 1: which again is an illustration thirty years later. That's really

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Speaker 1: those publications either don't exist or have certainly changed. But

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Speaker 1: I took all that in as part of the educational process. Now,

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Speaker 1: were you a good student when you were in high

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Speaker 1: school and you were in college or was it that

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Speaker 1: you found this particular area of interest and it just

415
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Speaker 1: captivated you in some way? I mean, how would you

416
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Speaker 1: assess your academic background? Yeah, I when I walked into college,

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Speaker 1: I don't I was a good, good student, not great,

418
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Speaker 1: wasn't in a like a great high school situation to

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Speaker 1: prepare me. Um So, I walked into engineering school and

420
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Speaker 1: I looked back and I was no more prepared to

421
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Speaker 1: start studying engineering successfully as an eighteen year old than

422
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Speaker 1: I would have been to uh fly an airplane at

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Speaker 1: that point. Um So, I had to learn how to learn.

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Speaker 1: One of the best things that happened to me as

425
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Speaker 1: I ended up in a five credit our calculum calculus

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Speaker 1: one class I sawphomore year, and I meant every day

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Speaker 1: you had an hour long class and calculus with homework,

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00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:11,600
Speaker 1: and if you ever got behind, you were done. And

429
00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:14,600
Speaker 1: the clay had taught me to learn how to learn.

430
00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:17,760
Speaker 1: So of anything that happened my first couple of years

431
00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:22,000
Speaker 1: of college, the process of learning to learn was critically important.

432
00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:25,119
Speaker 1: And then I decided how I want to pursue something

433
00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:29,560
Speaker 1: that I'm passionate about the sports, uh the sports area,

434
00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:34,000
Speaker 1: but working with people and teaching kind of resonated, and

435
00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:39,760
Speaker 1: so I became really successful from an academic standpoint, challenged

436
00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:44,119
Speaker 1: myself a little bit more with with different classes from

437
00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:47,080
Speaker 1: an elective standpoint, and then when I started my master's program,

438
00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:49,680
Speaker 1: I remember vividly my first class. There's about a dozen

439
00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:53,600
Speaker 1: people and we're studying the foundations of American higher education,

440
00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:57,800
Speaker 1: which I knew nothing about. Ironically, I work in American

441
00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:01,760
Speaker 1: higher education, so it was long term of beneficial experience.

442
00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:05,639
Speaker 1: But we we'd have like an hour discussion lecture and

443
00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:08,560
Speaker 1: then we break into small groups. And the first time

444
00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:11,440
Speaker 1: I'm there, I realized everybody is in their doctoral program

445
00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:14,320
Speaker 1: in this group, and I just starting a master's. So

446
00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:16,639
Speaker 1: they've got some problem that I don't recall. And they

447
00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:18,679
Speaker 1: go around the table and there's like six of us

448
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:20,359
Speaker 1: in this group, and they get to me and said, well,

449
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:22,560
Speaker 1: what do you think? And I was very honest. They said, look,

450
00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:26,800
Speaker 1: I'm just starting my master's. I can't contribute anything to

451
00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:29,840
Speaker 1: this discussion right now, but I promise you as we

452
00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:31,760
Speaker 1: moved towards the end of the semester, I will figure

453
00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:35,280
Speaker 1: this out and be fully engaged. And I offered that

454
00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:38,200
Speaker 1: story just as a representation of the growth that happened

455
00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:42,920
Speaker 1: from an educational academic standpoint along my journey. So by

456
00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:45,280
Speaker 1: the end of the class, I was doing just that.

457
00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:47,320
Speaker 1: And one of the people who sat at that table said,

458
00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:50,000
Speaker 1: that's one of the most remarkable things that I that

459
00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:53,199
Speaker 1: she had seen. She wasn't finishing her doctoral program, that

460
00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:56,240
Speaker 1: you'd have the confidence, And I'm like, that wasn't confidence.

461
00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:59,359
Speaker 1: I was scared to death to just admit what you

462
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:02,359
Speaker 1: didn't know, but promised that you'd catch up. And you

463
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:06,040
Speaker 1: did what you said. So you get your masters at

464
00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:10,520
Speaker 1: Syracuse and what happens next? Yeah, so I finished that program.

465
00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:12,840
Speaker 1: My wife and I were married in November of eight seven.

466
00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:15,359
Speaker 1: Fast forward the spring of eighty eight. We had a

467
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:17,720
Speaker 1: conversation about what's next in her life. She was a

468
00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:22,280
Speaker 1: registered nurse. Um. You know, it was early married life

469
00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:26,080
Speaker 1: when you don't know really much about anything. I guess

470
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:30,280
Speaker 1: and looking back and with this conversation resulted in my

471
00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:32,560
Speaker 1: observation that I always wondered if I could work in

472
00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:36,200
Speaker 1: Division one college sports. And so I just started sending

473
00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:38,560
Speaker 1: resumes out and I ended up with a with a

474
00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:43,160
Speaker 1: response from a place called Northwestern State University in Nacadush, Louisiana,

475
00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:47,680
Speaker 1: and I had written to remember Michigan, Arizona State, Syracuse.

476
00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:51,080
Speaker 1: I talked to in Syracuse for a brief period of time,

477
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:54,320
Speaker 1: but I ended up buying my own plane ticket to Shreveport.

478
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:57,520
Speaker 1: They picked me up, drove me an hour south to Nakadish,

479
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:00,800
Speaker 1: and it was at a time when you could find

480
00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:03,359
Speaker 1: a little bit about Northwestern State. They were one double

481
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:05,719
Speaker 1: A and football Gary Reasons, who played for the New

482
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:10,280
Speaker 1: York Giants, had attended their Mark Duper. The receiver for

483
00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:13,880
Speaker 1: the Miami Dolphins. John Stevens was rookie of the Year

484
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:16,080
Speaker 1: in the n f C running back for the Patriots.

485
00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:18,840
Speaker 1: So Bobby A. Barrett played there. So there was enough

486
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:22,480
Speaker 1: substance that you're like, okay, I go down there, met

487
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:26,560
Speaker 1: the A D and and uh, you know, just it

488
00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:29,359
Speaker 1: doesn't seem like it made a lot of sense now,

489
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:32,240
Speaker 1: but then it's like, hey, here's our adventure. So we

490
00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:37,160
Speaker 1: packed up everything in the summer of eight nine and

491
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:41,240
Speaker 1: uh drove a budget rent a truck pulling a seven

492
00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:44,679
Speaker 1: Dodge Shadow on a two wheel dolly from Utica, New

493
00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:48,960
Speaker 1: York to Nakadish, Louisiana. And we didn't have air conditioning

494
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:51,800
Speaker 1: in our car. It was like hot and humid, like

495
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:56,160
Speaker 1: I'd never really experienced, even the Texas Texas time. And

496
00:26:56,560 --> 00:27:01,280
Speaker 1: like the plan was, um, I made five dollars a

497
00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:04,200
Speaker 1: month in the internship, so I've gone from like eighteen

498
00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:07,040
Speaker 1: thousand because I've been provided a raise down to six.

499
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:10,480
Speaker 1: I was married. I knew we had enough money to

500
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:13,919
Speaker 1: make it into December if Cathy and my wife didn't

501
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:17,520
Speaker 1: didn't get a job. She ended up pretty quickly becoming

502
00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:22,000
Speaker 1: a nurse in the Nakotis Paris hospital. She worked third shifts,

503
00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:24,200
Speaker 1: so like I'd go to work in the morning, I'd

504
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:26,600
Speaker 1: come home, we'd eat dinner together. She'd go to work,

505
00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:29,200
Speaker 1: she'd come home, we got breakfast. She tell me all

506
00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:33,080
Speaker 1: the overnight hospital stories, of which there were many adventures

507
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:37,200
Speaker 1: um during that time, and that that was kind of life,

508
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:41,959
Speaker 1: you know, there was you know, it was just she worked,

509
00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:44,399
Speaker 1: I worked, and uh, you know, we didn't know a

510
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:47,880
Speaker 1: soul in that Louisiana. Probably really good for our marriage

511
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:50,879
Speaker 1: because we had to get along otherwise it was going

512
00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:54,120
Speaker 1: to go really bad. I did that for a year.

513
00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:56,800
Speaker 1: I became the golf coach. They needed a golf coach.

514
00:27:56,880 --> 00:28:00,520
Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, I'll coach the golf team. No I was.

515
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:02,439
Speaker 1: I was average at a nice set of ping Eye,

516
00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:05,119
Speaker 1: two clubs that were in vogue then, and the A. D.

517
00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:08,000
Speaker 1: Saudi fired the coach. I walked into his office. He said,

518
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:10,439
Speaker 1: I need a golf coach. Remember, I said, like the

519
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:13,359
Speaker 1: p A a ouncer. I'd never say no, and so

520
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:16,119
Speaker 1: I took over as a goal I didn't know this.

521
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:19,000
Speaker 1: You took over as a golf coach at South Yeah

522
00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:21,960
Speaker 1: nor Northwestern? Say, we didn't have a schedule, So I

523
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:25,080
Speaker 1: put us together schedule. We didn't have uniforms. I should

524
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:27,879
Speaker 1: like personally apologize to each of the players because they

525
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:32,199
Speaker 1: were gray Sam's a belt slacks for their golf uniforms

526
00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:35,960
Speaker 1: that year. There's like college kids. That seems so wrong

527
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:40,239
Speaker 1: at this point. A lot of polyester involved, um, and

528
00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:43,520
Speaker 1: then that we weren't. Some of the players probably better

529
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:46,400
Speaker 1: at golf than you, oh by far, every one of them.

530
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:49,280
Speaker 1: So how did you coach? How did you coach golf? Um?

531
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:52,000
Speaker 1: I made a lot of phone calls and I stayed

532
00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:54,440
Speaker 1: out of their way. I got into tea times on time,

533
00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:57,720
Speaker 1: and I really started asking them questions. I made sure

534
00:28:57,760 --> 00:28:59,640
Speaker 1: that they were in a little bit of decent shape.

535
00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:03,560
Speaker 1: I figured that that I couldn't help them on the course,

536
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:05,880
Speaker 1: but I could help them mentally in advance. So you

537
00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:08,560
Speaker 1: played a lot of thirty six eighteen rounds and I

538
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:10,840
Speaker 1: started having and run the stadium ramps and they're like,

539
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:12,440
Speaker 1: why are we doing this? And I said, because you

540
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:13,920
Speaker 1: need to be in a little bit of shape. And

541
00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:17,600
Speaker 1: then I remember vividly, like after we'd done this a

542
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:19,720
Speaker 1: few times and they think I'm crazy. We played one

543
00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:22,040
Speaker 1: of these thirty six whole days and they're like, oh yeah,

544
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 1: and these guys have finished last in the conference every year,

545
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:28,240
Speaker 1: by the way. We so we had this this thirty

546
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:30,239
Speaker 1: six whole day and when they finished, we're going out

547
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:31,960
Speaker 1: to dinner, and I said, I could tell I was

548
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:34,200
Speaker 1: a lot more prepared for this than than the guys

549
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:36,160
Speaker 1: I was playing. But they were all dragging at the end,

550
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:38,920
Speaker 1: and it was like a recognition of just the mental aspect.

551
00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:42,160
Speaker 1: And then you ask questions and you know they all

552
00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:46,520
Speaker 1: were going to have teachers and instructors anyway, even you know,

553
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:50,840
Speaker 1: thirty years ago, um and the guy before me got

554
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:53,240
Speaker 1: in a couple of fights apparently on the course of colleagues.

555
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:55,160
Speaker 1: So the fact I never got in the fight won't

556
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:58,360
Speaker 1: be be like a Coach of the Year awards. So

557
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:00,680
Speaker 1: so what was the rays to go for m intern

558
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:04,160
Speaker 1: there to what were you getting paid as the golf coach?

559
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:07,600
Speaker 1: Nothing that was a big Yeah. I had a nine

560
00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:10,120
Speaker 1: thousand dollar budget and I went out and raised like

561
00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:13,880
Speaker 1: another fifteen or twenty through a golf tournament. I wrote

562
00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:16,400
Speaker 1: every p g A and lp A g A professional

563
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:20,160
Speaker 1: asking them for stuff for uh, you know, a silent

564
00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:23,800
Speaker 1: auction and the golf tournament. A lot of them. Like

565
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:26,520
Speaker 1: one time that Peter Jacobson on an airline. I said,

566
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:28,640
Speaker 1: you don't know this, but you helped me like make

567
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:31,120
Speaker 1: my budget. Hail Irwin was awesome. He had won the

568
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:35,160
Speaker 1: US Open and sent me autograph passes. I actually had

569
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:38,120
Speaker 1: somebody bid for me. I have a Jack Nicholas Sports

570
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:41,960
Speaker 1: Illustrated cover when he won his last Masters, the autographed

571
00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:43,840
Speaker 1: and so I didn't want people think I was doing

572
00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:46,120
Speaker 1: anything wrong. So I had somebody bid for me to

573
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:50,160
Speaker 1: bid it up. Um just that's you know. He had

574
00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:53,680
Speaker 1: nine thousand dollars was my budget. And you know you

575
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:56,560
Speaker 1: had to play a certain number of days and I

576
00:30:56,600 --> 00:30:59,720
Speaker 1: forget the numbers, but we could play like half of

577
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:01,760
Speaker 1: what we needed to do. We had an old gray

578
00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:05,040
Speaker 1: Ford van where if you pulled the the floor up,

579
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:09,440
Speaker 1: like the vinyl flooring, you'd see the road. Um it

580
00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:13,520
Speaker 1: was there was an adventure in you know. He went

581
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:15,480
Speaker 1: out and recruited a little bit, and so I added

582
00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:17,880
Speaker 1: some players over a couple of years. I got paid

583
00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:21,360
Speaker 1: nothing for that. You're asking about salaries. So when I

584
00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:24,000
Speaker 1: I was hired as director of compliance that next summer

585
00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:28,120
Speaker 1: full time because they went through a pretty significant infractions

586
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:30,120
Speaker 1: case with the n c A. In fact, that's most

587
00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:32,440
Speaker 1: allegations in the case I've ever seen. I've been on

588
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:35,120
Speaker 1: the Committee of Infractions for nine years. What were they

589
00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:38,320
Speaker 1: cheating doing there? Men's basketball? Yeah, So they had a

590
00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:42,560
Speaker 1: coach that had been an assistant actually at the SEC school.

591
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:45,719
Speaker 1: He came back to his alma mater and there was

592
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:48,920
Speaker 1: like a ten thousand dollar check that was offered and

593
00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:51,400
Speaker 1: the defense was it was kind of a joke and

594
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:53,920
Speaker 1: it was a two or three year investigation. And so

595
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:56,960
Speaker 1: I'm there, I'm an intern. I decided I was going

596
00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:00,719
Speaker 1: to stay because I was learning a lot. I've always

597
00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:02,720
Speaker 1: decided to kind of put money in the background as

598
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:06,800
Speaker 1: long as we could survive and kind of grow my career.

599
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:09,120
Speaker 1: But I was there and they said, hey, we got

600
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:12,120
Speaker 1: this position, would you be interested? And I I didn't

601
00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:14,040
Speaker 1: know a lot about it, but I like read the

602
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:16,080
Speaker 1: n c A manual as you were called, and it

603
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:18,880
Speaker 1: paid attention to the n c A newspaper that came

604
00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:21,600
Speaker 1: out every week, so I knew, I knew what was

605
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:25,680
Speaker 1: going on. I get hired on like a Friday, And

606
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:27,960
Speaker 1: on Wednesday when an airplane to a committee on in

607
00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:31,720
Speaker 1: fractions hearing at Colorado Springs and we're at dinner and

608
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:35,160
Speaker 1: the vice president university. We're just talking and and it's

609
00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:37,360
Speaker 1: like I didn't need any job description because that night

610
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:39,520
Speaker 1: he looks at me and says, well, we know if

611
00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:41,960
Speaker 1: we're ever here again as a university, thank you won't

612
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:49,560
Speaker 1: be with us. So that was one of those motivational talks. So, uh,

613
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:51,640
Speaker 1: I want to ask this dude, where did you meet

614
00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:53,880
Speaker 1: your wife? Because you you bring her immediately down to

615
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:56,440
Speaker 1: the middle of nowhere, Louisiana to work as a nurse

616
00:32:56,920 --> 00:32:58,920
Speaker 1: um and uh, and she's got to be thinking, what

617
00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:00,880
Speaker 1: in the world you know by doing here? Where did

618
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:03,760
Speaker 1: you guys meet? Yes, she's from my same hometown. So

619
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:07,800
Speaker 1: we are a little town called Skinny Atlas, New York, um,

620
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:10,520
Speaker 1: which is a school district we lived in and she

621
00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:12,959
Speaker 1: moved there in junior high and that's where I was

622
00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:16,520
Speaker 1: born and raised in that area. So we knew of Yeah,

623
00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:19,920
Speaker 1: we knew of each other. We first dated right when

624
00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:23,000
Speaker 1: she graduated from high school. I've been through my freshman

625
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:25,920
Speaker 1: year in college and then it was a five year

626
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:31,120
Speaker 1: experience before we were married. And uh, all right, so

627
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:34,560
Speaker 1: how long did you coach the golf team? Three years?

628
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:38,000
Speaker 1: How much did they get better? Yeah, we finished like

629
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:42,160
Speaker 1: my first year, we weren't last, which was an accomplishment

630
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:44,720
Speaker 1: because they've always been last. And we went into the

631
00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:47,760
Speaker 1: final day. It was a twosomes that we played, and

632
00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:50,160
Speaker 1: we were playing South of Austin. And so I had

633
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:53,719
Speaker 1: one guy who his nickname was Taco. I mean, this

634
00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:58,080
Speaker 1: is like there's a movie in here, right, So Taco says,

635
00:33:58,120 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 1: let me go first. He says, I'm gonna play so

636
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:01,920
Speaker 1: fast that guy won't be able to keep up with me,

637
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:05,600
Speaker 1: will throw offs off his rhythm, and sure enough, like

638
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:08,239
Speaker 1: he gets up there, he says on the tea box,

639
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:10,479
Speaker 1: he says, hey, I'm gonna play fast. He he hits

640
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:13,520
Speaker 1: his ball across his big canyon that was off the

641
00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:16,399
Speaker 1: tee to the green, and the next the part four

642
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:19,520
Speaker 1: but to the fairway across the kind of the chasm,

643
00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:21,240
Speaker 1: and the next thing that gets up and just dunks

644
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:24,120
Speaker 1: it right in the canyon. Then like the whole teams like, hey,

645
00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:26,680
Speaker 1: I think we might not finish last. This year, maybe

646
00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:29,319
Speaker 1: we can get two ninths out of ten, and then

647
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:32,520
Speaker 1: we got to uh, I think we got to like seventh,

648
00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:36,719
Speaker 1: and then we finished fifth and uh. You know, there

649
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:40,360
Speaker 1: had no money and no real practice facility, and we

650
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:43,360
Speaker 1: never won a tournament. We always we finished second like

651
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:45,879
Speaker 1: four times. So after my first year, I figured out

652
00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:49,399
Speaker 1: it's all about scheduling. So you wanted a few tough

653
00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:52,000
Speaker 1: tournaments so they could play up. But then I was

654
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:54,280
Speaker 1: always trying to find one or two where we could

655
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:57,920
Speaker 1: win and compete just to build some confidence. And we

656
00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:00,879
Speaker 1: finished second like three times. But but I never had

657
00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:04,279
Speaker 1: never had a victory. So what happens. Then you're there

658
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:06,920
Speaker 1: for three years, you're coaching golf, you're doing n C

659
00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:11,239
Speaker 1: double a work um and and what's the next step. Yeah,

660
00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:15,480
Speaker 1: so there's a guy Brittain Banowski Britain was assistant commissioner

661
00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:17,560
Speaker 1: in the South Wind. He came in the same month

662
00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:21,200
Speaker 1: I started as an intern at Northwestern State. Britain eventually

663
00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:23,759
Speaker 1: became Conference USA and had just left a couple of

664
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:26,600
Speaker 1: years ago and now runs a college football playoff foundation.

665
00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:29,120
Speaker 1: But we got to know each other in and in

666
00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:33,440
Speaker 1: the fall of ninety one, he took a job as

667
00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:36,600
Speaker 1: assistant commissioner with the Southwest Conference, you know, the old

668
00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:41,200
Speaker 1: Texas Arkansas Conference, and uh so there was this opening

669
00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:45,600
Speaker 1: and I applied and and was selected for that job.

670
00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:47,960
Speaker 1: I did not have a law degree. I interviewed against

671
00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:50,959
Speaker 1: two attorneys, and in the interview process they said, look,

672
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:53,480
Speaker 1: we think we need an attorney for this job. Why

673
00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:56,800
Speaker 1: should we even consider you? Again? The other two candidates

674
00:35:56,800 --> 00:36:00,719
Speaker 1: had law degrees, And I remember my answer star did with, Look,

675
00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:04,080
Speaker 1: you're gonna have to make your own decision. You're right,

676
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:05,560
Speaker 1: I don't have a lot of green. If I can

677
00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:08,000
Speaker 1: convince you don't need an attorney, I think I've got

678
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:10,799
Speaker 1: a really good chance of being your next assistant commissioner.

679
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:15,040
Speaker 1: Which was kind of just an off the coff confident statement,

680
00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:18,480
Speaker 1: not arrogant, but just confident that let me explain to you,

681
00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:22,240
Speaker 1: I think I'm the person for this job. So January

682
00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:25,279
Speaker 1: of ninety two, we moved from Nackadis, Louisiana, to the

683
00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:30,239
Speaker 1: Dallas area. Lived in planoh actually in Allen, Texas, UM

684
00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:33,200
Speaker 1: and I started as assistant commissioner for the Southland Conference

685
00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:36,960
Speaker 1: that that January and then Clay, like every two years,

686
00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:39,480
Speaker 1: I moved up. So two years later I became associate

687
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:44,000
Speaker 1: commissioner for Championships and Marketing Brittain Mianowski Britain had come

688
00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:47,479
Speaker 1: back as our commissioner um. And then two years later,

689
00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:50,400
Speaker 1: when the Big Twelve is being started, Steve Hatchell was

690
00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:56,960
Speaker 1: it's uh, it's inaugural commissioner. He hired Britain and I

691
00:36:57,040 --> 00:36:59,600
Speaker 1: was thirty one years old, and they named me commissioner.

692
00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:03,320
Speaker 1: All the presidents got together and they decided unanimously to

693
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:05,960
Speaker 1: named met commissioner of that conference without going out and

694
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:09,480
Speaker 1: doing a further search. They thought they thought they had

695
00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:12,920
Speaker 1: the right person. And uh hopefully they still feel they

696
00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:15,439
Speaker 1: did the right thing at that point. So you're thirty one,

697
00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:18,879
Speaker 1: and that's a pretty meteoric rise, right to go from

698
00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:21,680
Speaker 1: and in turn in the middle of nowhere or Louisiana

699
00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:24,279
Speaker 1: and then a golf coach, and at thirty one you

700
00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:28,640
Speaker 1: get named the commissioner of that conference. Were you ready

701
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:32,800
Speaker 1: for the job? I don't think you've ever ready, believe

702
00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:37,239
Speaker 1: me in my current role, um, but I was. I

703
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:40,000
Speaker 1: was as prepared as you could be at thirty one

704
00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:42,319
Speaker 1: years old, which is you know, that's not a very

705
00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:46,360
Speaker 1: sophisticated answer. You play. What's interesting is two years earlier

706
00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:49,200
Speaker 1: the job had come open and people said you should apply,

707
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:51,680
Speaker 1: and I knew inside that I wasn't ready. It wasn't

708
00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:55,520
Speaker 1: my time. I actually thought, right or wrong, naively soul

709
00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:58,920
Speaker 1: or just youth that when it came open again, I

710
00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:02,239
Speaker 1: thought I had a shot at um at being the commissioner.

711
00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:05,799
Speaker 1: I've been around the League office for four years, you know,

712
00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:08,600
Speaker 1: I've done the regulatory stuff. I kind of knew the issues.

713
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:11,160
Speaker 1: I had the ability to think through what needed to

714
00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:15,200
Speaker 1: be done or what shouldn't have been done, And um, yeah,

715
00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:17,560
Speaker 1: I was as ready as could be. You know, it

716
00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:21,120
Speaker 1: was a time where like all the staff took other jobs.

717
00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:23,919
Speaker 1: I mean I worked like tirelessly because it's a much

718
00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:27,920
Speaker 1: smaller operation. But you still, I had high expectations of

719
00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:31,080
Speaker 1: myself even in that moment. So for people who aren't

720
00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:33,600
Speaker 1: familiar with that conference at that time, the schools that

721
00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:36,560
Speaker 1: are in it are which ones? And uh and what

722
00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:39,160
Speaker 1: you know? How much of it arranged geographically? Did you

723
00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:42,000
Speaker 1: have to deal with? Sure? It was all all the Texas.

724
00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:44,440
Speaker 1: All the schools at that time were either in Texas

725
00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:48,600
Speaker 1: or Louisiana sou from Dallas down to San Antonio and

726
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:53,360
Speaker 1: then east through Louisiana, and we had ten when I started.

727
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:57,400
Speaker 1: One was withdrawing, so the University of North Texas withdrew

728
00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:00,000
Speaker 1: at the end of that academic year. So we were

729
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:03,040
Speaker 1: own to nine and that was kind of directional schools

730
00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:07,360
Speaker 1: in Louisiana plus McNee State, Nichols State, and then Stephen F.

731
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:11,560
Speaker 1: Austin sam Houston State, Southwest Texas which is now Texas State,

732
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:14,960
Speaker 1: Texas Arlington in Texas, San Antonio. So I'm thirty one

733
00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:17,839
Speaker 1: years old, I've got to hire a new staff, and

734
00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:21,520
Speaker 1: I have expansion put right on my my desk from

735
00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:26,319
Speaker 1: day one. And uh, we added that summer. Lamar University

736
00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:30,040
Speaker 1: in southeastern Louisiana went to eleven and said that's the

737
00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:33,719
Speaker 1: right number. So, um, you know, we had three other

738
00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:37,440
Speaker 1: universities or colleges considered, and it was one of those

739
00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:40,839
Speaker 1: really good decisions for that league, but nobody stopped at

740
00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:45,160
Speaker 1: eleven members. Um. But you know, to your question about

741
00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:48,400
Speaker 1: where you're ready, I kind of understood the league and

742
00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:52,279
Speaker 1: what would work and what wouldn't work, and and you know,

743
00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:56,480
Speaker 1: two months in we made a really positive expansion decision.

744
00:39:56,960 --> 00:39:58,760
Speaker 1: But I'll just tell you I was trying to figure

745
00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:01,040
Speaker 1: it out as much as I was, you know, doing

746
00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:04,080
Speaker 1: something based on some great knowledge that I had gained

747
00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:07,000
Speaker 1: in my nine year career. Be sure to catch live

748
00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:10,040
Speaker 1: editions about Kicked the coverage with Clay Travis week days

749
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:13,360
Speaker 1: at six am Eastern three am Pacific. We're talking to

750
00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:17,080
Speaker 1: Greg Sanky, SEC Commissioner. You can follow him on Twitter

751
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:20,840
Speaker 1: at Greg Sanky. So thirty one years old, you're a

752
00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:24,040
Speaker 1: commissioner of a conference, which a lot of people would

753
00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:28,000
Speaker 1: would consider to be an incredible accomplishment by thirty one,

754
00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:30,040
Speaker 1: What did your family think at this point in time,

755
00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:32,839
Speaker 1: Not your wife, but your mom and dad back home

756
00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:35,200
Speaker 1: in New York. Were they blown away by your success?

757
00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:38,160
Speaker 1: What did they think of this? I probably found out

758
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:41,280
Speaker 1: three years later. I had the ability to buy tickets

759
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:43,239
Speaker 1: to the Final four, and I brought my brother and

760
00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:46,120
Speaker 1: my brother lives in Hawaii he's younger than I am,

761
00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:48,480
Speaker 1: and my parents to Tampa for the Final four, I

762
00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:52,480
Speaker 1: think it was. And we're sitting like these great seats

763
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:54,480
Speaker 1: and it was a year at the University of Connecticut.

764
00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:56,400
Speaker 1: One of my dad looks at me and says, I

765
00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:58,520
Speaker 1: think you made the right decision, because when I told

766
00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:00,919
Speaker 1: him that I wasn't gonna be an engineer. He said,

767
00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:03,200
Speaker 1: you're missing the boat. You're missing the boat. As I

768
00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:06,600
Speaker 1: tell you that story, I can smell to our garage

769
00:41:06,719 --> 00:41:09,879
Speaker 1: where I told him, the exact spot where I had

770
00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:14,000
Speaker 1: that conversation. So said, I think he made the right decision.

771
00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:18,200
Speaker 1: And then I called him and there's another story I

772
00:41:18,239 --> 00:41:20,080
Speaker 1: want to tell you about the South End experience and

773
00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:23,440
Speaker 1: intersects with me being in the SEC. But when I

774
00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:25,560
Speaker 1: called him to tell him I was leaving the Southland

775
00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:29,520
Speaker 1: Commissioner's job to take an associate Commissioner's job the SEC.

776
00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:32,000
Speaker 1: So why would you do that? And he's like the

777
00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:34,719
Speaker 1: only person who really ever said it that way to me, Like,

778
00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:37,240
Speaker 1: why would you leave a stable job? Or you're the boss?

779
00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:40,040
Speaker 1: And you know that was his frame of reference that

780
00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:43,759
Speaker 1: you had risen this ladder. I was paid, you know,

781
00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:47,160
Speaker 1: well enough, and lived in Dallas, which was great, and

782
00:41:47,680 --> 00:41:50,200
Speaker 1: UH loves that work. But you know, I was ready

783
00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:53,719
Speaker 1: for that new challenge, which kind of materialized in a

784
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:57,040
Speaker 1: phone conversation with Mike's life one day in August of

785
00:41:57,120 --> 00:41:58,880
Speaker 1: two thousand two. I want to get to that in

786
00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:00,239
Speaker 1: a sect, but I want to go back to you

787
00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:02,320
Speaker 1: telling your dad you didn't want to be an engineer,

788
00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:04,160
Speaker 1: because I feel like there's a lot of people out

789
00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:07,160
Speaker 1: there listening right now, especially if they're on the younger side.

790
00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:09,200
Speaker 1: They may be in college out for the summer, listening

791
00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:12,640
Speaker 1: to this podcast. And when you're young, a lot of

792
00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:16,560
Speaker 1: what you do initially is fulfill the expectations and dreams

793
00:42:16,600 --> 00:42:20,080
Speaker 1: potentially of other people, right and uh, and and I

794
00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:22,759
Speaker 1: think that's probably somewhat what you were doing going and

795
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:25,640
Speaker 1: becoming an engineer was fulfilling a dream that your dad

796
00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:29,080
Speaker 1: had for you. How difficult was it for you to

797
00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:32,319
Speaker 1: tell him that you weren't going to do maybe what

798
00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:34,560
Speaker 1: he thought you should be doing and become an engineer.

799
00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:40,080
Speaker 1: My memory is enormous. Um, you know, just uh, I'm

800
00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:42,000
Speaker 1: gonna tell him I'm not going to do this because

801
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:44,600
Speaker 1: I walked into a tier the way you phrase the question,

802
00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:46,439
Speaker 1: I don't think I put a lot of thought into

803
00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:49,120
Speaker 1: what I was going to major in. It was, hey, engineer,

804
00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:51,480
Speaker 1: you make good money, You'll always have a job. I

805
00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:53,560
Speaker 1: get to go to school in Texas. This is gonna

806
00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:55,440
Speaker 1: be great. I want to go live in Texas and

807
00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:58,960
Speaker 1: see what life's like there. And uh, you know, everything worked,

808
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:02,040
Speaker 1: But then when I had to walk through on my

809
00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:06,280
Speaker 1: own what's life going to look like? UM, that's where

810
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:10,880
Speaker 1: this other conversation took place. Almost all internally. Uh, my

811
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:12,880
Speaker 1: wife and I were dating. I don't remember she and

812
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:15,719
Speaker 1: I have any deep conversations about things. I think there

813
00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:18,920
Speaker 1: was a time when eventually we talked it through. But

814
00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:20,680
Speaker 1: I had to walk and say, hey, Dad, I need

815
00:43:20,680 --> 00:43:23,160
Speaker 1: to talk to you about something. And then I said,

816
00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:25,600
Speaker 1: you know, I don't want to be an engineer. I

817
00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:28,480
Speaker 1: want to work with people, which is really kind of ironic.

818
00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:31,760
Speaker 1: I just couldn't see the people's side of being an engineer.

819
00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:34,680
Speaker 1: Now I've got all kinds of friends with engineering degrees

820
00:43:34,719 --> 00:43:37,960
Speaker 1: the lead companies or do things with people. But all

821
00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:41,800
Speaker 1: I saw at that point was, you know, drawings in

822
00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:46,320
Speaker 1: electrical circuits. UM. And so my my teaching and coaching

823
00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:48,839
Speaker 1: was I had an uncle who taught and coached, and

824
00:43:48,840 --> 00:43:51,800
Speaker 1: he like had this great looking life, drove a Camaro,

825
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:54,400
Speaker 1: which wasn't the be all end off for me in

826
00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:56,920
Speaker 1: the least seventies, but you know, it's like, hey, you

827
00:43:56,920 --> 00:44:00,400
Speaker 1: get to work with people. I love the competitive aspect

828
00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:02,640
Speaker 1: of sports. I love playing sports. I love thinking it

829
00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:07,680
Speaker 1: through and watching UM and I love the educational setting.

830
00:44:07,719 --> 00:44:12,320
Speaker 1: I've never considered professional sports as a as a career

831
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:16,759
Speaker 1: path for me. It's always been in the context of education.

832
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:20,320
Speaker 1: And that's what really informed that day. I just didn't

833
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:22,640
Speaker 1: know it when when we had that conversation. But he

834
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:25,880
Speaker 1: never said no. To my dad's credit, he said, you know, uh,

835
00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:28,560
Speaker 1: you're missing the boat. He didn't say you're making a mistake.

836
00:44:28,719 --> 00:44:30,680
Speaker 1: I don't know what boat I missed, but he certainly

837
00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:33,200
Speaker 1: did miss a boat. I will freely acknowledge that one.

838
00:44:33,239 --> 00:44:35,239
Speaker 1: But I caught a caught a much better one for me.

839
00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:38,560
Speaker 1: So how many hours are you working? So a lot

840
00:44:38,600 --> 00:44:40,759
Speaker 1: of people want to get that initial job, they don't

841
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:44,000
Speaker 1: necessarily work that hard at it because your initial jobs

842
00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:46,040
Speaker 1: they may not be great jobs, right, So, I mean,

843
00:44:46,080 --> 00:44:49,160
Speaker 1: when you're grinding, it's not like you're making necessarily really

844
00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:51,719
Speaker 1: important decisions or things that you think. And there's a

845
00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:54,080
Speaker 1: lot of people listening now who will have been interns.

846
00:44:54,120 --> 00:44:56,520
Speaker 1: I mean, you're literally the lowest man on the totem pole,

847
00:44:56,640 --> 00:44:59,040
Speaker 1: so to speak. How many hours are you working as

848
00:44:59,080 --> 00:45:02,360
Speaker 1: you work yourself? Yeah, in a real job, I tracked

849
00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:04,799
Speaker 1: for a while because I was working. I worked all

850
00:45:04,840 --> 00:45:07,880
Speaker 1: the time, and I got up to eighty hours a

851
00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:09,919
Speaker 1: few weeks when we because I think people are hearing

852
00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:12,360
Speaker 1: that now and they're like eighty hours as the like

853
00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:15,279
Speaker 1: you think of a director of intermural sports as like

854
00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:18,040
Speaker 1: kind of not a hard working job, right, I mean

855
00:45:18,080 --> 00:45:20,000
Speaker 1: like for a lot of people, I think that was

856
00:45:20,040 --> 00:45:23,080
Speaker 1: the one man. Yeah, so I'm showing up at ten

857
00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:26,640
Speaker 1: in the morning and I'd be there till midnight. Um,

858
00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:29,360
Speaker 1: so those are fourteen hour days. You do five of

859
00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:32,000
Speaker 1: those or four of those, You're you're pretty far down

860
00:45:32,080 --> 00:45:34,719
Speaker 1: the road, uh for eighty events, and then you have

861
00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:37,759
Speaker 1: eighty hours. Then you have a few special events over

862
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:40,839
Speaker 1: the weekend and that's all you do. And I can

863
00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:43,840
Speaker 1: remember thinking, man, when I when I was thinking about

864
00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:46,560
Speaker 1: not being an engineer, it was because I didn't want

865
00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:49,480
Speaker 1: to live my life for the weekend. I mean literally,

866
00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:53,640
Speaker 1: clais that those engineering labs I think about the weekend.

867
00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:55,640
Speaker 1: I'm like, this is really a rotten way to live.

868
00:45:55,800 --> 00:45:58,400
Speaker 1: It's just like the Lover Boys song working for the

869
00:45:58,440 --> 00:46:01,080
Speaker 1: Weekend was popular at the time. You're like, I don't

870
00:46:01,120 --> 00:46:03,080
Speaker 1: want to live for the weekend. There's gonna be something

871
00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:05,799
Speaker 1: that that resonates more, And all of a sudden, I

872
00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:07,480
Speaker 1: get this job, and I don't even know what a

873
00:46:07,560 --> 00:46:11,120
Speaker 1: weekend is because it's just constant. But you know, that

874
00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:14,880
Speaker 1: prepared me. So then when I'm Conference commissioner. Um, my

875
00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:17,040
Speaker 1: first year, I ended up in the hospital because I

876
00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:19,760
Speaker 1: worked so much and slept so little and did an exercise.

877
00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:22,239
Speaker 1: In fact, the story I was going to share one

878
00:46:22,320 --> 00:46:24,560
Speaker 1: of them was I was flying here for my first

879
00:46:24,600 --> 00:46:27,400
Speaker 1: meeting with Roy Kramer in the SEC office, the office

880
00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:30,719
Speaker 1: that I'm sitting in as we conduct this interview, and

881
00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:34,200
Speaker 1: at eight seven, I'm thirty two years old. I get

882
00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:37,080
Speaker 1: off a plane in Atlanta. I go to the bathroom

883
00:46:37,120 --> 00:46:40,640
Speaker 1: at Gate I mean the memories that I'm standing at

884
00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:43,680
Speaker 1: the urinal, doing what one does at the urinal. I

885
00:46:43,719 --> 00:46:45,600
Speaker 1: get light headed, and the next thing you know, I

886
00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:48,480
Speaker 1: hear somebody saying, don't worry, sir, stay on the floor.

887
00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:52,480
Speaker 1: We've called for help. And like I'm wondering who he's

888
00:46:52,520 --> 00:46:55,880
Speaker 1: talking to. And I realized I'm on the bathroom floor.

889
00:46:56,200 --> 00:46:58,480
Speaker 1: And one of the fundamentals in life is when you're

890
00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:01,360
Speaker 1: getting up off the bathroom floor or you're never in

891
00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:04,239
Speaker 1: a good spot in life. And mine wasn't like a

892
00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:07,719
Speaker 1: crazy Saturday night bender or something, but I had my

893
00:47:07,800 --> 00:47:11,399
Speaker 1: heart freaked out. I had a natural fibrillation and just

894
00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:14,160
Speaker 1: I went down and then I almost passed out again

895
00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:16,759
Speaker 1: in the airport. I'm thirty two years old and I

896
00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:20,399
Speaker 1: spent a night in the hospital, and you know, I've

897
00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:22,160
Speaker 1: got a four year old and a one year old

898
00:47:22,239 --> 00:47:26,400
Speaker 1: and like a two dollar insurance policy on myself. And

899
00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:29,000
Speaker 1: it's one of those eye opening moments about Wow, how

900
00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:31,359
Speaker 1: are you going to live now? You've you've ground it

901
00:47:31,400 --> 00:47:33,200
Speaker 1: as hard as you can, but you're gonna have to

902
00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:35,960
Speaker 1: take care of yourself as well. Was what caused that?

903
00:47:36,080 --> 00:47:37,799
Speaker 1: Was it that you were working? I mean, I don't know,

904
00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:40,960
Speaker 1: and I'm enough about the condition there you faint, but

905
00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:44,480
Speaker 1: was it brought on by just work? At to access?

906
00:47:44,520 --> 00:47:46,000
Speaker 1: I mean, what did they tell you about how to

907
00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:48,640
Speaker 1: get better? Yeah? It was well, we don't really know

908
00:47:48,719 --> 00:47:51,520
Speaker 1: what triggered it, but your was a vagal nerve hopefully

909
00:47:51,520 --> 00:47:54,120
Speaker 1: I say it the right you know, has a function here.

910
00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:57,040
Speaker 1: And they were asking me about sleep patterns and how

911
00:47:57,120 --> 00:48:01,160
Speaker 1: much caffeina I was consuming. And the best description as

912
00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:04,560
Speaker 1: there's a sign feld where Kramer gets free lattes and

913
00:48:04,560 --> 00:48:06,600
Speaker 1: so he's going in there all the time. And that

914
00:48:06,719 --> 00:48:09,120
Speaker 1: was me. I was sleeping like four or five hours

915
00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:11,520
Speaker 1: a night. I'd wake up my mind's going a hundred

916
00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:14,120
Speaker 1: miles an hour at four in the morning. I'd work

917
00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:17,800
Speaker 1: all day. I coached my kids soccer team at that point,

918
00:48:17,880 --> 00:48:20,480
Speaker 1: and I drink like three and four lattes through the day,

919
00:48:20,640 --> 00:48:24,680
Speaker 1: like the hyper caffe nation, and so uh we backed

920
00:48:24,680 --> 00:48:27,520
Speaker 1: it off there started an exercise, paid a little bit

921
00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:31,160
Speaker 1: more attention to nutrition, and learned that I had to

922
00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:33,680
Speaker 1: rely on my staff a little bit more effectively. So

923
00:48:33,760 --> 00:48:35,759
Speaker 1: do you call the SEC when you're going to that

924
00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:37,400
Speaker 1: interview and say, Hey, I'm gonna have to miss it.

925
00:48:37,400 --> 00:48:39,879
Speaker 1: I'm in the Atlanta hospital instead because I passed out

926
00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:42,320
Speaker 1: at the urnal. Well, I wasn't here for I was

927
00:48:42,360 --> 00:48:45,399
Speaker 1: here for a meeting. So one double A commissioners would

928
00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:48,040
Speaker 1: go around myself, the Southern Conference Commissioner and the Big

929
00:48:48,040 --> 00:48:51,719
Speaker 1: Sky Commissioner. We decided strategically we'd go see the big guy.

930
00:48:51,800 --> 00:48:55,400
Speaker 1: So Roy Kramer, Jim Delaney, Gene Corgan was at the

931
00:48:55,400 --> 00:48:58,920
Speaker 1: a SEC Tom Hanson and just talk about issues because

932
00:48:58,960 --> 00:49:01,600
Speaker 1: we wanted to guarante TEA games, you know, the FCS

933
00:49:01,680 --> 00:49:04,319
Speaker 1: games everybody complains about. So I was on the other

934
00:49:04,480 --> 00:49:08,480
Speaker 1: that would make you yeah, make your budget, and um,

935
00:49:08,560 --> 00:49:11,120
Speaker 1: you know we were better than Sun Belt Schools. I'll

936
00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:13,880
Speaker 1: just tell you right now that when they were starting football,

937
00:49:14,360 --> 00:49:16,640
Speaker 1: the Southland Schools would get three teams in the one

938
00:49:16,680 --> 00:49:19,399
Speaker 1: Double A playoffs and they had a winning record at

939
00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:22,120
Speaker 1: that time against Sun Belt school So there was there

940
00:49:22,200 --> 00:49:24,440
Speaker 1: was some half to it, and we needed to improve

941
00:49:24,480 --> 00:49:27,279
Speaker 1: the one Double A playoffs and talked about where we

942
00:49:27,320 --> 00:49:29,120
Speaker 1: wanted to be friendly with them. So we were coming

943
00:49:29,120 --> 00:49:31,239
Speaker 1: here for a meeting. So I literally had to call

944
00:49:31,280 --> 00:49:33,600
Speaker 1: and say I'm not gonna make it. I'm spending the

945
00:49:33,680 --> 00:49:38,239
Speaker 1: night in the hospital. As it turns out, that's right.

946
00:49:38,640 --> 00:49:40,600
Speaker 1: When I tell the story in a room of people,

947
00:49:40,640 --> 00:49:42,120
Speaker 1: I say, look, if any of you work for an

948
00:49:42,120 --> 00:49:45,400
Speaker 1: airline someday, the way to begin the call is not

949
00:49:45,680 --> 00:49:47,680
Speaker 1: the way it began with my wife, which is hello,

950
00:49:47,800 --> 00:49:50,080
Speaker 1: Mrs Sanky, this is Mike from Delta Airlines. If you

951
00:49:50,160 --> 00:49:53,600
Speaker 1: heard about your husband. And when I was hand at

952
00:49:53,600 --> 00:49:55,759
Speaker 1: the phone, I'm an emergency room and they're going to

953
00:49:55,880 --> 00:50:00,200
Speaker 1: administer hepperin to prevent blood clotting, is what they've told me.

954
00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:02,960
Speaker 1: So I'm all freaked out about having a stroke of

955
00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:05,920
Speaker 1: some sort because my heart's not clearing the blood because

956
00:50:05,960 --> 00:50:08,239
Speaker 1: it's fluttering as opposed to beating. And I get this

957
00:50:08,280 --> 00:50:10,640
Speaker 1: phone my wife. The first thing she said to me

958
00:50:10,719 --> 00:50:12,239
Speaker 1: is what are you trying to do to me? And

959
00:50:12,280 --> 00:50:16,279
Speaker 1: I'm like, I think I'm okay, here's what happened. Um,

960
00:50:16,520 --> 00:50:18,200
Speaker 1: She's like, do I need to come out there. I'm like, no,

961
00:50:18,400 --> 00:50:21,160
Speaker 1: it'll be fine. We'll just we'll get through this. So

962
00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:23,719
Speaker 1: that was like a Tuesday. And then on Thursday, I

963
00:50:23,760 --> 00:50:26,160
Speaker 1: was playing in an adult hockey league back in Dallas,

964
00:50:26,200 --> 00:50:28,640
Speaker 1: and so she got a little bit riled up because

965
00:50:28,640 --> 00:50:30,480
Speaker 1: I said, well, I'm gonna play because I might as

966
00:50:30,520 --> 00:50:33,520
Speaker 1: well figure out if my heart's gonna freak out on me.

967
00:50:34,000 --> 00:50:35,920
Speaker 1: No better place than on a hockey rink, because I've

968
00:50:35,920 --> 00:50:38,839
Speaker 1: got a helmet and pads on, and uh, I've never

969
00:50:38,920 --> 00:50:42,200
Speaker 1: had that problem again. Fox Sports Radio has the best

970
00:50:42,280 --> 00:50:45,120
Speaker 1: sports talk lineup in the nation. Catch all of our

971
00:50:45,120 --> 00:50:48,600
Speaker 1: shows at Fox sports Radio dot com and within the

972
00:50:48,640 --> 00:50:51,800
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio app search f s are to listen live.

973
00:50:52,440 --> 00:50:55,359
Speaker 1: Uh so you we we circle back around now we're

974
00:50:55,360 --> 00:50:58,680
Speaker 1: talking by the way to Southeastern Conference Commissioner Greg Sanky.

975
00:50:58,719 --> 00:51:01,120
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Winds and Lost his podcast here

976
00:51:01,120 --> 00:51:04,200
Speaker 1: with Clay Travis um, you get so you're the commissioner

977
00:51:04,239 --> 00:51:07,200
Speaker 1: in the south Land Conference. It is your dad's telling

978
00:51:07,200 --> 00:51:09,560
Speaker 1: you got the best gig ever you're showing taking your

979
00:51:09,600 --> 00:51:12,719
Speaker 1: family to the final four. And then you get an

980
00:51:12,719 --> 00:51:16,560
Speaker 1: opportunity to potentially not be a commissioner anymore and go

981
00:51:16,719 --> 00:51:20,040
Speaker 1: to the Southeastern Conference. How does that happen? Yeah, so,

982
00:51:20,120 --> 00:51:22,960
Speaker 1: Mike Slide, if you paid attention closely to the story,

983
00:51:23,520 --> 00:51:26,680
Speaker 1: Mike Slide and I are on a committee in ninety seven,

984
00:51:26,800 --> 00:51:29,080
Speaker 1: are in Kansas City, and I met him once but

985
00:51:29,120 --> 00:51:31,200
Speaker 1: didn't know him. We're standing off to the side and

986
00:51:31,200 --> 00:51:33,279
Speaker 1: he says, well, tell me your story. So I I

987
00:51:33,360 --> 00:51:35,680
Speaker 1: go through a version of what I've told you here.

988
00:51:35,680 --> 00:51:37,799
Speaker 1: I want to get to the Utica College party, says

989
00:51:37,920 --> 00:51:41,080
Speaker 1: Utica College. I was born and raised in Utica, New York.

990
00:51:41,120 --> 00:51:43,759
Speaker 1: And I said really, And he said, where'd you live there?

991
00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:47,040
Speaker 1: And so it started this conversation. A couple of years later,

992
00:51:47,120 --> 00:51:50,000
Speaker 1: he said, Hey, if you ever back in Utica. Every

993
00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:52,520
Speaker 1: Saturday night, my family used to heat at Joe's Restaurant.

994
00:51:52,560 --> 00:51:54,680
Speaker 1: He said, here's where it is. It's on Bleaker Street.

995
00:51:54,680 --> 00:51:56,200
Speaker 1: When you see it, you won't want to go in.

996
00:51:56,280 --> 00:51:58,480
Speaker 1: But they make their sauce every morning. It was an

997
00:51:58,560 --> 00:52:02,719
Speaker 1: Italian restaurant. So Kathy and I were we flew to Syracuse.

998
00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:05,280
Speaker 1: We were driving out to Newport, Rhode Island for meetings

999
00:52:05,280 --> 00:52:07,120
Speaker 1: where Mike and Liz would be attending, and I said,

1000
00:52:07,120 --> 00:52:09,280
Speaker 1: why don't we leave early and go have lunch at Joe's.

1001
00:52:10,040 --> 00:52:12,719
Speaker 1: So he did, and then I told Mike about doing it,

1002
00:52:12,760 --> 00:52:15,000
Speaker 1: and I've told folks I think that was the most

1003
00:52:15,040 --> 00:52:17,520
Speaker 1: significant decision of my career, was to go eat lunch

1004
00:52:17,520 --> 00:52:20,920
Speaker 1: with Joe's. It was great. It was just when he said,

1005
00:52:21,000 --> 00:52:23,840
Speaker 1: was like ten bucks for for a lunch of pasta

1006
00:52:23,960 --> 00:52:27,840
Speaker 1: and a salad and great sauce and um. So we

1007
00:52:27,920 --> 00:52:32,520
Speaker 1: started this conversation where you built a friendship. And about

1008
00:52:32,520 --> 00:52:34,120
Speaker 1: a year and a half later, he offered me a

1009
00:52:34,200 --> 00:52:36,440
Speaker 1: chance to work for him at Conference USA. And I

1010
00:52:36,440 --> 00:52:39,160
Speaker 1: didn't want to move to Chicago. I really liked kind

1011
00:52:39,160 --> 00:52:42,040
Speaker 1: of the leadership position I had. And then when he

1012
00:52:42,120 --> 00:52:46,319
Speaker 1: came here to the SEC I was, John Swofford called me.

1013
00:52:46,440 --> 00:52:48,919
Speaker 1: Tom Hanson, the Pack twelve commissioner, called me and Mike

1014
00:52:48,920 --> 00:52:51,839
Speaker 1: and said I'm gonna recommend you be the next commissioner

1015
00:52:51,840 --> 00:52:55,279
Speaker 1: of Conference USA. So I got in the interview process

1016
00:52:55,360 --> 00:52:57,520
Speaker 1: and went through a phone interview, and then like a

1017
00:52:57,560 --> 00:53:00,440
Speaker 1: week went by and I never heard back. So I

1018
00:53:00,520 --> 00:53:02,680
Speaker 1: called Mike and I said, hey, what's going on with

1019
00:53:02,719 --> 00:53:05,120
Speaker 1: your old job? He was here in the SEC office

1020
00:53:05,239 --> 00:53:07,560
Speaker 1: that I'm sitting in right now, and he said, look,

1021
00:53:07,560 --> 00:53:09,560
Speaker 1: I've been busy. I haven't paid any attention. And I

1022
00:53:09,600 --> 00:53:13,080
Speaker 1: remember Clay not believing him, like guys just kind of

1023
00:53:13,120 --> 00:53:16,200
Speaker 1: giving me the brush off. Once I got here and

1024
00:53:16,239 --> 00:53:18,720
Speaker 1: saw what it was for him, it was all complete

1025
00:53:18,800 --> 00:53:21,800
Speaker 1: learning experience. He was right. He hadn't thought about Conference

1026
00:53:21,840 --> 00:53:24,760
Speaker 1: USA at all, just because his life had been taken

1027
00:53:24,800 --> 00:53:27,319
Speaker 1: over by the SEC. But at the end of the

1028
00:53:27,360 --> 00:53:29,920
Speaker 1: conversation he said, he said, hey, by the way, I've

1029
00:53:29,920 --> 00:53:32,560
Speaker 1: got a job open here and would you ever think

1030
00:53:32,600 --> 00:53:35,560
Speaker 1: about working for the SEC? And when he tried to

1031
00:53:35,600 --> 00:53:38,040
Speaker 1: hire me a Conference USA, Kathy and I talked. They said,

1032
00:53:38,040 --> 00:53:39,960
Speaker 1: you know, if it was like the SEC calling for

1033
00:53:39,960 --> 00:53:43,680
Speaker 1: an associate commissioner job, I think I take the opportunity.

1034
00:53:44,200 --> 00:53:46,480
Speaker 1: So it kind of all this work together where he

1035
00:53:46,520 --> 00:53:48,520
Speaker 1: and I spent a month talking. It was back in

1036
00:53:48,960 --> 00:53:51,759
Speaker 1: rules compliance and there were a couple of things. One

1037
00:53:51,960 --> 00:53:54,719
Speaker 1: the SEC had any kind of issues. Then you know,

1038
00:53:54,719 --> 00:53:57,200
Speaker 1: we're always going to have issues, but I had a

1039
00:53:57,239 --> 00:54:00,480
Speaker 1: good reputation. I was concerned about kind of getting flattered

1040
00:54:00,560 --> 00:54:04,080
Speaker 1: with some of the dirt um. I didn't want to

1041
00:54:04,239 --> 00:54:06,960
Speaker 1: be like the enforcement guy and was just work in

1042
00:54:07,040 --> 00:54:10,200
Speaker 1: compliance and do rules in terms, and so I was

1043
00:54:10,239 --> 00:54:13,080
Speaker 1: really a struggle. People are like, you know. I talked

1044
00:54:13,080 --> 00:54:14,399
Speaker 1: to people and they said, I don't know why you'd

1045
00:54:14,400 --> 00:54:15,840
Speaker 1: want to go there and do that work. And I

1046
00:54:15,880 --> 00:54:17,759
Speaker 1: just got to a point where I was thirty eight,

1047
00:54:18,239 --> 00:54:20,080
Speaker 1: I was still young and had a fourth grade in

1048
00:54:20,120 --> 00:54:24,879
Speaker 1: a first grader, and I had executed a strategic plan

1049
00:54:24,960 --> 00:54:28,840
Speaker 1: at the Southland conference. They were pretty well positioned and

1050
00:54:28,880 --> 00:54:31,160
Speaker 1: I could go, like make another lap on the track.

1051
00:54:31,280 --> 00:54:34,680
Speaker 1: This is literally the conversation I'm having with myself. I

1052
00:54:34,800 --> 00:54:37,239
Speaker 1: love living in Dallas, but if I was ever going

1053
00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:39,880
Speaker 1: to take a challenge, you know, I was gonna you

1054
00:54:39,960 --> 00:54:41,840
Speaker 1: might as well take a big challenge, and trying to

1055
00:54:41,880 --> 00:54:44,520
Speaker 1: come here and and help in the area that that

1056
00:54:44,600 --> 00:54:46,759
Speaker 1: he had a job opening was a big challenge. But

1057
00:54:46,800 --> 00:54:49,800
Speaker 1: it came down to one of my staff, Linda Teelers,

1058
00:54:49,880 --> 00:54:53,400
Speaker 1: now a senior associate a d at Florida, asked me

1059
00:54:53,480 --> 00:54:58,040
Speaker 1: this incredibly clarifying question and for young people listening or

1060
00:54:58,160 --> 00:55:00,560
Speaker 1: people changing jobs. You're gonna have to get the essence

1061
00:55:00,640 --> 00:55:03,000
Speaker 1: of things if you're going to make a change. And

1062
00:55:03,080 --> 00:55:05,120
Speaker 1: she came in and she's the only one I told

1063
00:55:05,160 --> 00:55:08,759
Speaker 1: on my staff of the opportunity. She said, Look, if

1064
00:55:08,800 --> 00:55:12,200
Speaker 1: you take this job and in five years you hate it,

1065
00:55:12,560 --> 00:55:14,520
Speaker 1: you'll get a job back at like a one double,

1066
00:55:14,560 --> 00:55:17,120
Speaker 1: a school or a conference. You're you're good enough, you'll

1067
00:55:17,160 --> 00:55:20,400
Speaker 1: get that opportunity. But if you stay here, are you

1068
00:55:20,440 --> 00:55:22,319
Speaker 1: going to spend the rest of your life wondering what

1069
00:55:22,400 --> 00:55:26,279
Speaker 1: if I had just taken that chance? And she walked out,

1070
00:55:26,320 --> 00:55:29,360
Speaker 1: and I remember, you know, that's exactly right. I'm not

1071
00:55:29,400 --> 00:55:31,080
Speaker 1: going to live the rest of my life wondering if

1072
00:55:31,080 --> 00:55:33,680
Speaker 1: I could have worked at that level. Because when Kathy

1073
00:55:33,719 --> 00:55:36,480
Speaker 1: and I had the conversation about working in college sports,

1074
00:55:36,480 --> 00:55:38,799
Speaker 1: it was and I wonder how far I might go?

1075
00:55:39,800 --> 00:55:44,120
Speaker 1: So moved here and O two hated it. Just to

1076
00:55:44,160 --> 00:55:47,600
Speaker 1: be honest, it was very different. Um, you know, Mike

1077
00:55:47,719 --> 00:55:50,120
Speaker 1: was trying to figure it out, and uh, what did

1078
00:55:50,120 --> 00:55:53,160
Speaker 1: you hate about it? I had been I led a

1079
00:55:53,239 --> 00:55:57,600
Speaker 1: group of ten people and got to set an agenda,

1080
00:55:57,760 --> 00:56:00,640
Speaker 1: and when I saw problems would ask to her opinion

1081
00:56:00,760 --> 00:56:02,200
Speaker 1: or say, hey, why don't you go take care of

1082
00:56:02,239 --> 00:56:04,719
Speaker 1: it this way? And then all of a sudden, I'm

1083
00:56:04,760 --> 00:56:07,120
Speaker 1: just kind of listening and people are looking at me, like,

1084
00:56:07,160 --> 00:56:08,960
Speaker 1: why would I listen to you? You were at one

1085
00:56:09,000 --> 00:56:13,080
Speaker 1: double A just it was and it just wasn't comfortable

1086
00:56:13,160 --> 00:56:15,319
Speaker 1: for me. You know. Mike had said, hey, we'll work

1087
00:56:15,400 --> 00:56:18,240
Speaker 1: shoulder to shoulder on these issues, and I couldn't capture

1088
00:56:18,239 --> 00:56:20,440
Speaker 1: his attention because he was so busy on other things,

1089
00:56:20,440 --> 00:56:23,960
Speaker 1: and I felt like I was alone. So my first week,

1090
00:56:24,600 --> 00:56:28,040
Speaker 1: I was threatened with lawsuits over a men's tennis tournament issue,

1091
00:56:28,600 --> 00:56:30,719
Speaker 1: and I flew back to Dallas. My wife picks me

1092
00:56:30,800 --> 00:56:32,680
Speaker 1: up because I was commuting at that point. She said,

1093
00:56:32,719 --> 00:56:35,000
Speaker 1: what happened? I told her and she said, did you

1094
00:56:35,080 --> 00:56:37,200
Speaker 1: used to get threatened with lawsuits at the at the

1095
00:56:37,239 --> 00:56:40,200
Speaker 1: Southland conference? I said, like in six years at one time,

1096
00:56:40,560 --> 00:56:43,160
Speaker 1: I said, I got threatened with three lawsuits over men's tennis.

1097
00:56:43,480 --> 00:56:45,800
Speaker 1: I said, I can't imagine when it's at a football issue.

1098
00:56:45,880 --> 00:56:50,160
Speaker 1: So that started the misery. The second week was um,

1099
00:56:50,400 --> 00:56:52,440
Speaker 1: I forget the name of the quarterback at L s U,

1100
00:56:52,560 --> 00:56:54,840
Speaker 1: but Saban said he was nervous one of his brother

1101
00:56:54,920 --> 00:56:57,040
Speaker 1: on the sideline and we said no. I said, no,

1102
00:56:57,440 --> 00:56:59,919
Speaker 1: you can't do that. That's you can't take a family member,

1103
00:57:00,040 --> 00:57:02,640
Speaker 1: just put him on the sideline. And then the third

1104
00:57:02,640 --> 00:57:05,120
Speaker 1: week was my first phone call with Jim Herrick, which

1105
00:57:05,160 --> 00:57:07,840
Speaker 1: didn't go well because like three months later when he

1106
00:57:07,880 --> 00:57:11,400
Speaker 1: got fired in in February oh three. So you're dealing

1107
00:57:11,400 --> 00:57:14,520
Speaker 1: with all these issues. I didn't have the knowledge base

1108
00:57:14,680 --> 00:57:19,280
Speaker 1: to really solve problems quickly. We had some staff turnover,

1109
00:57:19,480 --> 00:57:23,680
Speaker 1: so I was back in that absolute grind. Um. I

1110
00:57:23,760 --> 00:57:26,800
Speaker 1: took a pretty significant pay cut to take the opportunity here.

1111
00:57:26,880 --> 00:57:29,880
Speaker 1: So you know, I said earlier that I always tried

1112
00:57:29,920 --> 00:57:32,360
Speaker 1: to put money in the background, and I asked myself,

1113
00:57:32,760 --> 00:57:35,720
Speaker 1: would I'd be moving into a situation that would challenge

1114
00:57:35,760 --> 00:57:37,960
Speaker 1: me so that I could learn and grow. I mean,

1115
00:57:38,000 --> 00:57:40,600
Speaker 1: that was the template that that I applied, and every

1116
00:57:40,680 --> 00:57:43,400
Speaker 1: year I asked myself the same question, like, I'm about

1117
00:57:43,720 --> 00:57:46,040
Speaker 1: to go through that process over the next couple of weeks,

1118
00:57:46,080 --> 00:57:47,840
Speaker 1: and I've got a little bit quieter time, and I

1119
00:57:47,880 --> 00:57:52,760
Speaker 1: still growing in the answers. Yes, uh, in this job certainly,

1120
00:57:53,640 --> 00:57:56,480
Speaker 1: But you know, making that move, there were just a

1121
00:57:56,520 --> 00:57:59,040
Speaker 1: lot of stuff and the unsettled nous and trying to

1122
00:57:59,080 --> 00:58:01,760
Speaker 1: figure it out that we're really really difficult. How did

1123
00:58:01,880 --> 00:58:03,920
Speaker 1: Nick Saban respond when you told him he couldn't have

1124
00:58:03,960 --> 00:58:06,600
Speaker 1: the brother on the sideline? I think that was the

1125
00:58:06,680 --> 00:58:09,480
Speaker 1: end of it, you know, it's it's it's interesting that

1126
00:58:09,480 --> 00:58:13,160
Speaker 1: that um all through the years, and you obviously have

1127
00:58:13,200 --> 00:58:15,600
Speaker 1: a different relationship when you're the commissioner and the coach.

1128
00:58:16,080 --> 00:58:18,920
Speaker 1: But Nick's always been pretty direct both ways, both you know,

1129
00:58:18,960 --> 00:58:22,280
Speaker 1: giving and taking, and I respect that no, no hidden

1130
00:58:22,360 --> 00:58:26,360
Speaker 1: gend is just very clear conversations back and forth. Be

1131
00:58:26,440 --> 00:58:29,000
Speaker 1: sure to catch live editions about Kicked the coverage with

1132
00:58:29,040 --> 00:58:32,640
Speaker 1: Clay Travis week days at six am Eastern three am Pacific.

1133
00:58:33,120 --> 00:58:34,920
Speaker 1: You mentioned taking a pay cut, and there are a

1134
00:58:34,960 --> 00:58:37,000
Speaker 1: lot of people listening right now and we're talking to

1135
00:58:37,320 --> 00:58:40,080
Speaker 1: SEC Commissioner Greg Sanky. This is the Wins and Losses

1136
00:58:40,120 --> 00:58:43,400
Speaker 1: podcast with Clay Travis. A lot of people out there would,

1137
00:58:43,600 --> 00:58:46,400
Speaker 1: and I think in life in general, don't make a

1138
00:58:46,400 --> 00:58:50,360
Speaker 1: decision because they can't bear to go back in pay right.

1139
00:58:50,440 --> 00:58:52,960
Speaker 1: It's very very common. I've done it a bunch of

1140
00:58:53,000 --> 00:58:55,440
Speaker 1: times in my career where I've thought, hey, I liked

1141
00:58:55,480 --> 00:58:57,400
Speaker 1: the opportunity. I did it when I decided to give

1142
00:58:57,480 --> 00:58:59,600
Speaker 1: up practicing law, which a lot of people you said

1143
00:58:59,600 --> 00:59:01,600
Speaker 1: you had the conversation with your dad. I mean a

1144
00:59:01,600 --> 00:59:03,640
Speaker 1: lot of people thought I was crazy, you know, graduating

1145
00:59:03,640 --> 00:59:06,480
Speaker 1: from Vanderbilt law school and writing a book about sec football,

1146
00:59:06,560 --> 00:59:08,400
Speaker 1: Like why was I not in a law firm? What

1147
00:59:08,480 --> 00:59:11,280
Speaker 1: was I doing with my life? And I have found

1148
00:59:11,320 --> 00:59:14,000
Speaker 1: that if you take the job that always offers you

1149
00:59:14,120 --> 00:59:17,320
Speaker 1: the most money, sometimes you maybe not even sometimes, but

1150
00:59:17,480 --> 00:59:20,800
Speaker 1: very often you end up trapped at some point, right,

1151
00:59:20,880 --> 00:59:23,600
Speaker 1: because there's always an opportunity to make a little bit

1152
00:59:23,600 --> 00:59:26,640
Speaker 1: more money. Were you cognizant of that, because I mean

1153
00:59:26,640 --> 00:59:29,840
Speaker 1: that's that's not necessarily a traditional path to go somewhere

1154
00:59:30,120 --> 00:59:34,960
Speaker 1: and take less money for probably a more challenging situation. Yeah,

1155
00:59:35,000 --> 00:59:38,160
Speaker 1: I was attentive to it, and you know that created

1156
00:59:38,200 --> 00:59:40,480
Speaker 1: some stress here. You know, the cost of living was

1157
00:59:40,480 --> 00:59:43,280
Speaker 1: a bit higher than Dallas. The real estate markets different

1158
00:59:43,960 --> 00:59:46,400
Speaker 1: um and I was good at maths, but not great

1159
00:59:46,400 --> 00:59:48,760
Speaker 1: at math, so you know, it was a little bit

1160
00:59:48,840 --> 00:59:52,560
Speaker 1: lean when I made the move. You've got a young

1161
00:59:52,640 --> 00:59:54,640
Speaker 1: family and you've got a way so and people you're

1162
00:59:54,640 --> 00:59:56,320
Speaker 1: in Birmingham, they don't think of it as being an

1163
00:59:56,320 --> 00:59:59,200
Speaker 1: expensive place, but it can be pretty expensive. I mean

1164
00:59:59,200 --> 01:00:01,640
Speaker 1: there's a lot of rich people in Birmingham. Yeah, and

1165
01:00:01,680 --> 01:00:04,360
Speaker 1: in Dallas for two dollars. You get a huge house

1166
01:00:04,400 --> 01:00:06,919
Speaker 1: for two hundred thousand dollars year, they're going to spend

1167
01:00:06,960 --> 01:00:10,520
Speaker 1: every weekend fixing your house. Um, and you know I

1168
01:00:10,880 --> 01:00:12,920
Speaker 1: didn't have that time because of the man to the job.

1169
01:00:12,960 --> 01:00:15,320
Speaker 1: But I think there's two keys in their one. Yeah.

1170
01:00:15,320 --> 01:00:17,760
Speaker 1: I was conscious about, Hey, I'm gonna I'm gonna take

1171
01:00:17,800 --> 01:00:21,840
Speaker 1: a hit monetarily in two of the most significant decisions

1172
01:00:21,880 --> 01:00:25,200
Speaker 1: I ever made, taking that internship. So I went was

1173
01:00:25,240 --> 01:00:28,080
Speaker 1: actually twenty one tho dollars that year at Utica because

1174
01:00:28,120 --> 01:00:30,160
Speaker 1: I had that for about a month and then left

1175
01:00:30,200 --> 01:00:34,120
Speaker 1: in July after getting the race down to six and

1176
01:00:34,160 --> 01:00:37,280
Speaker 1: then from yeah, from a hundred and seventy five down

1177
01:00:37,280 --> 01:00:40,640
Speaker 1: to a D to move to the SEC. So that's

1178
01:00:40,680 --> 01:00:44,440
Speaker 1: like a thirty three pay cut um. And then and

1179
01:00:44,560 --> 01:00:48,000
Speaker 1: both of those circumstances, I went back from a responsibilities,

1180
01:00:48,080 --> 01:00:52,360
Speaker 1: prestige title whatever. Um, you know I wasn't you know,

1181
01:00:52,400 --> 01:00:55,000
Speaker 1: I was an intern. So I was like writing letters

1182
01:00:55,040 --> 01:01:00,400
Speaker 1: and sealing envelopes and managing tickets and and uh, I

1183
01:01:00,480 --> 01:01:03,200
Speaker 1: was in compliance here as opposed to being a commissioner.

1184
01:01:03,800 --> 01:01:05,840
Speaker 1: And you know, part of the reason It was hard,

1185
01:01:05,880 --> 01:01:07,720
Speaker 1: as you know. I had to be reminded to put

1186
01:01:07,760 --> 01:01:11,680
Speaker 1: my ego uh in the drawer and uh, you know,

1187
01:01:11,920 --> 01:01:14,880
Speaker 1: do the job. And I actually Clay after a year

1188
01:01:14,880 --> 01:01:17,560
Speaker 1: and a half, had pursued an athletics director's job and

1189
01:01:17,640 --> 01:01:22,560
Speaker 1: was actually had accepted the athletics director's job at Colgate University.

1190
01:01:22,600 --> 01:01:25,160
Speaker 1: And on the morning of the press conference, I didn't

1191
01:01:25,160 --> 01:01:29,960
Speaker 1: sleep for two nights. I called the president university and said, uh,

1192
01:01:30,720 --> 01:01:32,840
Speaker 1: you know, we need to cancel that press conference. So,

1193
01:01:33,000 --> 01:01:36,560
Speaker 1: whether it's Bobby Kremen's, Billy Donovan, whoever has done those things,

1194
01:01:37,400 --> 01:01:39,280
Speaker 1: I was on that list. I had to call Mike

1195
01:01:39,320 --> 01:01:42,040
Speaker 1: and asked for my job back here. We gotta go,

1196
01:01:42,080 --> 01:01:45,240
Speaker 1: we gotta go into this. So you so so you

1197
01:01:45,280 --> 01:01:47,320
Speaker 1: get so you're there for a year and a half

1198
01:01:47,480 --> 01:01:49,600
Speaker 1: and then you get an opportunity to go to Colgate

1199
01:01:49,680 --> 01:01:52,080
Speaker 1: back in the Northeast where you're you and your family

1200
01:01:52,160 --> 01:01:55,120
Speaker 1: were from. I mean that's a pretty prestigious school, right,

1201
01:01:55,200 --> 01:01:58,120
Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's a job that is a really

1202
01:01:58,520 --> 01:02:01,160
Speaker 1: pretty pretty I would imagine odd after job, you go

1203
01:02:01,280 --> 01:02:03,320
Speaker 1: through the interview process and by the way, one question

1204
01:02:03,320 --> 01:02:04,960
Speaker 1: before I get to there, did you ever find out

1205
01:02:05,000 --> 01:02:08,800
Speaker 1: why you didn't get the Conference US A job. Yeah,

1206
01:02:10,080 --> 01:02:13,840
Speaker 1: they said, the search consultant said, you can't handle this job.

1207
01:02:13,880 --> 01:02:17,480
Speaker 1: You've never been in a big enough setting into that.

1208
01:02:17,600 --> 01:02:19,800
Speaker 1: I was ready for that because it happened once. It's

1209
01:02:19,800 --> 01:02:21,760
Speaker 1: like a plimeter and get to know you for another

1210
01:02:21,760 --> 01:02:24,840
Speaker 1: commissioner's job. I so wait a second. What's harder to

1211
01:02:24,920 --> 01:02:28,640
Speaker 1: manage to get the Southland Conference basketball tournament back on

1212
01:02:28,960 --> 01:02:32,040
Speaker 1: ESPN after your predecessor hacked them off and they wouldn't

1213
01:02:32,040 --> 01:02:34,720
Speaker 1: talk to you for four years, three years? Or to

1214
01:02:34,800 --> 01:02:37,640
Speaker 1: schedule the Duke North Carolina and ESPN because he got

1215
01:02:37,800 --> 01:02:40,480
Speaker 1: the consultant works for the a SEC. Because I had

1216
01:02:40,520 --> 01:02:42,080
Speaker 1: to do the ladder, and I can tell you that's

1217
01:02:42,080 --> 01:02:44,720
Speaker 1: a lot more difficult now. Um, you know they made

1218
01:02:44,720 --> 01:02:48,360
Speaker 1: their decision that worked pretty well. Uh so yeah, no kidding.

1219
01:02:48,400 --> 01:02:50,440
Speaker 1: So okay, so you get the you're you're thinking, Okay,

1220
01:02:50,440 --> 01:02:52,760
Speaker 1: this this SEC thing may not be working out. You

1221
01:02:52,800 --> 01:02:55,440
Speaker 1: take the job. You had to go through the interview process,

1222
01:02:55,480 --> 01:02:57,800
Speaker 1: I imagine in order to get that job, and then

1223
01:02:57,840 --> 01:03:00,360
Speaker 1: are you up in like the vicinity, have to be

1224
01:03:00,400 --> 01:03:02,640
Speaker 1: in the in the community right to be ready to

1225
01:03:02,680 --> 01:03:05,840
Speaker 1: walk over to the press conference. I've gone through two interviews.

1226
01:03:06,320 --> 01:03:09,400
Speaker 1: I was up there with my family. I met the trustees,

1227
01:03:09,680 --> 01:03:13,520
Speaker 1: which are significant people like now the CEO of Formula

1228
01:03:13,560 --> 01:03:15,840
Speaker 1: one right now, a guy named Chase Carey was on

1229
01:03:15,920 --> 01:03:21,320
Speaker 1: the board. Chase inter was the primary trustee for my interview.

1230
01:03:21,520 --> 01:03:25,240
Speaker 1: Was like one of the top guys at Fox Murdoch

1231
01:03:25,360 --> 01:03:27,680
Speaker 1: right he was running direct TV at the time. We

1232
01:03:27,760 --> 01:03:31,360
Speaker 1: had conversation. I mean there's subtitent people. A guy named

1233
01:03:31,400 --> 01:03:33,840
Speaker 1: Mark Murphy was now the president of the Green Bay

1234
01:03:33,840 --> 01:03:36,800
Speaker 1: Packers had left the job. That's why it was open.

1235
01:03:36,840 --> 01:03:39,680
Speaker 1: He went to Northwestern University, so I could see go

1236
01:03:39,800 --> 01:03:43,880
Speaker 1: to this great university. It's about forty Colgate University is

1237
01:03:43,880 --> 01:03:47,560
Speaker 1: about forty miles from my family, my wife's family. My

1238
01:03:47,640 --> 01:03:50,400
Speaker 1: kids would get to know their grandparents, which they had

1239
01:03:50,560 --> 01:03:53,840
Speaker 1: had that opportunity. Um, they had just gone to the

1240
01:03:53,960 --> 01:03:57,880
Speaker 1: National Championship game in one double a football. Um. Their

1241
01:03:57,920 --> 01:04:01,720
Speaker 1: hockey team was top ten at the time. Him, So there,

1242
01:04:02,120 --> 01:04:05,000
Speaker 1: you know, there were some some opportunities there. And I

1243
01:04:05,000 --> 01:04:06,800
Speaker 1: had a friend in the Patriot League, the A d

1244
01:04:06,920 --> 01:04:09,920
Speaker 1: at Buck now who just described it as a great

1245
01:04:09,960 --> 01:04:13,840
Speaker 1: career experience. And uh, I was up there, I met

1246
01:04:13,840 --> 01:04:16,480
Speaker 1: the trustees. I sent my family back to Birmingham to

1247
01:04:16,520 --> 01:04:20,120
Speaker 1: finish school. Uh I was. I was, you know, there

1248
01:04:20,120 --> 01:04:22,640
Speaker 1: on my own. I didn't sleep. I was literally clear

1249
01:04:22,680 --> 01:04:25,680
Speaker 1: on my knees, praying God, what do I do and

1250
01:04:25,800 --> 01:04:27,560
Speaker 1: made the decision that I was going to have to

1251
01:04:27,600 --> 01:04:29,760
Speaker 1: get up in the morning. I had told Mike I

1252
01:04:29,800 --> 01:04:34,320
Speaker 1: was resigning the SEC membership, had been told that UM,

1253
01:04:34,400 --> 01:04:36,480
Speaker 1: so they wouldn't be caught off guard by the announcement

1254
01:04:36,480 --> 01:04:40,320
Speaker 1: on Monday. And I called him UM and said, Hey,

1255
01:04:40,760 --> 01:04:43,800
Speaker 1: this isn't gonna work, Mike, I really would like to

1256
01:04:43,800 --> 01:04:46,240
Speaker 1: stay if you'll have me back. He had been the

1257
01:04:46,280 --> 01:04:48,680
Speaker 1: a D at Cornell and it kind of advised me

1258
01:04:48,760 --> 01:04:51,760
Speaker 1: that wasn't the high point for him. And you know,

1259
01:04:51,960 --> 01:04:54,120
Speaker 1: he said, you know, you've done something that I didn't do,

1260
01:04:54,160 --> 01:04:56,880
Speaker 1: which was to walk away from the situation that didn't

1261
01:04:57,080 --> 01:04:59,960
Speaker 1: didn't work. And then I had to call the college,

1262
01:05:00,160 --> 01:05:03,640
Speaker 1: the university president and say, you know, you need to

1263
01:05:03,680 --> 01:05:06,920
Speaker 1: cancel the press conference. And then I just shut my

1264
01:05:06,960 --> 01:05:09,360
Speaker 1: phone off for like six hours. I told my wife

1265
01:05:09,440 --> 01:05:12,040
Speaker 1: and it was it was emotional for her because she thought,

1266
01:05:12,640 --> 01:05:15,439
Speaker 1: you know, we were wanted to take the job. Well,

1267
01:05:15,560 --> 01:05:17,720
Speaker 1: we had walked through this process for a couple of

1268
01:05:17,760 --> 01:05:20,080
Speaker 1: months where it was like, this is the right thing

1269
01:05:20,120 --> 01:05:21,320
Speaker 1: to do. And then all of a sudden, I call

1270
01:05:21,440 --> 01:05:23,880
Speaker 1: up on a Monday morning at six thirty am and say, hey,

1271
01:05:23,920 --> 01:05:27,800
Speaker 1: we're not moving and here's here's why. And then I

1272
01:05:27,880 --> 01:05:30,200
Speaker 1: just shut my phone off and just went away and

1273
01:05:30,320 --> 01:05:33,760
Speaker 1: I sat by the lake and and just kind of processed.

1274
01:05:33,840 --> 01:05:36,280
Speaker 1: And it was an important moment for my success here

1275
01:05:36,280 --> 01:05:38,360
Speaker 1: because I said, you know what, I haven't let myself

1276
01:05:38,480 --> 01:05:41,919
Speaker 1: enjoy the job. I was so uptight about going into

1277
01:05:41,960 --> 01:05:44,400
Speaker 1: the coaches meetings or what was the next issue. I said,

1278
01:05:44,400 --> 01:05:46,400
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go have fun and I want to walk

1279
01:05:46,400 --> 01:05:48,960
Speaker 1: into the football coaches meeting in destined. So this was

1280
01:05:49,000 --> 01:05:51,680
Speaker 1: oh four, and I'm gonna make everybody in that room

1281
01:05:51,720 --> 01:05:56,440
Speaker 1: smile at least once and just have fun um. And

1282
01:05:56,480 --> 01:05:58,600
Speaker 1: it was a turning point for me here. I I

1283
01:05:58,720 --> 01:06:02,800
Speaker 1: began to enjoy the work a lot more, appreciated the level,

1284
01:06:02,920 --> 01:06:06,680
Speaker 1: the intensity, uh and the people in a whole fresh way.

1285
01:06:07,120 --> 01:06:09,800
Speaker 1: So what was it at Colgate that, ultimately do you

1286
01:06:09,840 --> 01:06:12,720
Speaker 1: think attributed to you not sleeping for two nights? Like it?

1287
01:06:12,800 --> 01:06:15,760
Speaker 1: Was it just a career trajectory? Was it? What was

1288
01:06:15,800 --> 01:06:17,640
Speaker 1: it that sort of in the back of your mind

1289
01:06:17,720 --> 01:06:20,080
Speaker 1: you were like, this is just not right. Yeah, it

1290
01:06:20,160 --> 01:06:22,560
Speaker 1: was an accumulation of things I should have pulled out

1291
01:06:22,560 --> 01:06:24,479
Speaker 1: two or three weeks earlier. I was kind of told

1292
01:06:24,600 --> 01:06:29,160
Speaker 1: here's how salary conversations would go, and I had reasonable expectations,

1293
01:06:29,200 --> 01:06:31,000
Speaker 1: and I had taken the pay cut to come to

1294
01:06:31,000 --> 01:06:34,000
Speaker 1: the SEC, so I was looking to make a step

1295
01:06:34,080 --> 01:06:37,840
Speaker 1: forward and it didn't play out just mechanically the way

1296
01:06:37,880 --> 01:06:39,720
Speaker 1: it had been explained to me, and that was a

1297
01:06:39,760 --> 01:06:42,880
Speaker 1: warning flag. Um. We made a visit up there where

1298
01:06:42,920 --> 01:06:44,920
Speaker 1: they're going to let us live in a in some

1299
01:06:45,000 --> 01:06:48,960
Speaker 1: campus housing that I had certain expectations on my family

1300
01:06:49,000 --> 01:06:53,160
Speaker 1: would live, not overly, you know, elite, but we weren't

1301
01:06:53,160 --> 01:06:55,520
Speaker 1: even close to what we saw that day. It was

1302
01:06:55,560 --> 01:06:58,080
Speaker 1: really a shock and my wife and kids are looking

1303
01:06:58,080 --> 01:07:00,640
Speaker 1: at me, like, I don't think we're going to really

1304
01:07:00,640 --> 01:07:04,240
Speaker 1: live here in a great have a great experience. Um,

1305
01:07:04,400 --> 01:07:06,440
Speaker 1: we walked into school was a bit of a disaster,

1306
01:07:06,520 --> 01:07:09,320
Speaker 1: and there was kind of a blip and a budget circumstance,

1307
01:07:09,360 --> 01:07:12,040
Speaker 1: and I'm like, wait a second, If if this is

1308
01:07:12,080 --> 01:07:14,040
Speaker 1: the way it is now when they're happy with me,

1309
01:07:14,280 --> 01:07:17,080
Speaker 1: what happens after a few years when they're a little

1310
01:07:17,080 --> 01:07:19,960
Speaker 1: bit tired of seeing the a d roll in and

1311
01:07:20,560 --> 01:07:23,120
Speaker 1: probably just came to my senses to what I should

1312
01:07:23,160 --> 01:07:26,920
Speaker 1: have seen three weeks ago. But I wanted it to work, UM,

1313
01:07:26,960 --> 01:07:29,000
Speaker 1: and it was a really good lesson for me, and

1314
01:07:29,080 --> 01:07:33,000
Speaker 1: some other opportunities that I that I didn't pursue or

1315
01:07:33,240 --> 01:07:36,160
Speaker 1: stopped at the right time, And I think everybody has

1316
01:07:36,200 --> 01:07:38,640
Speaker 1: to go through those, you know, kintting to your point

1317
01:07:38,640 --> 01:07:41,240
Speaker 1: about transitioning from a law firm, Well, then you you

1318
01:07:41,320 --> 01:07:43,880
Speaker 1: get into something right and you learn a little bit

1319
01:07:43,960 --> 01:07:46,080
Speaker 1: so that the next time you have an opportunity, you

1320
01:07:46,120 --> 01:07:48,880
Speaker 1: know a little bit better how to discern whether it's

1321
01:07:48,880 --> 01:07:51,400
Speaker 1: a yes or no, or what questions to ask. And

1322
01:07:52,040 --> 01:07:55,440
Speaker 1: UM colgates a great place. They have had great success.

1323
01:07:55,480 --> 01:07:58,680
Speaker 1: The men's basketball team gave Tennessee a tough, tough game

1324
01:07:58,720 --> 01:08:01,760
Speaker 1: in the n c A Tournament. But it just wasn't

1325
01:08:01,840 --> 01:08:04,280
Speaker 1: the right situation for me, even though I thought for

1326
01:08:04,400 --> 01:08:06,520
Speaker 1: months that it would be. So then you go back

1327
01:08:06,560 --> 01:08:08,600
Speaker 1: to the SEC and basically say, I'm going to commit

1328
01:08:08,680 --> 01:08:11,680
Speaker 1: myself to this job. When did you start thinking, hey,

1329
01:08:11,720 --> 01:08:13,880
Speaker 1: maybe one day I could be the successor to Mike's

1330
01:08:13,880 --> 01:08:15,760
Speaker 1: alive or were you thinking that from the moment you

1331
01:08:15,840 --> 01:08:19,000
Speaker 1: first started working at the SEC. No I came here

1332
01:08:19,000 --> 01:08:21,200
Speaker 1: with the idea I could go to the Sun Belt

1333
01:08:21,360 --> 01:08:23,679
Speaker 1: or Conference U s A or the Mid American Conference.

1334
01:08:23,760 --> 01:08:26,439
Speaker 1: Things had changed where you weren't going to jump. It

1335
01:08:26,479 --> 01:08:29,640
Speaker 1: didn't seem from one double A into a one A situation,

1336
01:08:29,720 --> 01:08:34,479
Speaker 1: or from FCS to FBS and and so. Um in

1337
01:08:34,640 --> 01:08:38,000
Speaker 1: like oh nine, the Mid American Conference Commissioner's job came

1338
01:08:38,080 --> 01:08:40,960
Speaker 1: open and I went through that process, had a great

1339
01:08:41,080 --> 01:08:46,320
Speaker 1: visit with the search committee, and UM it was in March.

1340
01:08:46,840 --> 01:08:49,599
Speaker 1: I thought that was the opportunity. I've been invited back

1341
01:08:49,640 --> 01:08:52,280
Speaker 1: as one of two finalists, and they wanted me to

1342
01:08:52,280 --> 01:08:55,160
Speaker 1: sign a memoranum of understanding before I could go to

1343
01:08:55,200 --> 01:08:59,040
Speaker 1: the final interview. And in the Colgate situation that had

1344
01:08:59,040 --> 01:09:01,479
Speaker 1: come up, and I never signed the memorandum, and then

1345
01:09:01,520 --> 01:09:04,599
Speaker 1: I was able to walk away. And so I said, look,

1346
01:09:04,680 --> 01:09:07,519
Speaker 1: there were some financial things I needed clarity on and

1347
01:09:07,520 --> 01:09:09,200
Speaker 1: I just said, I'm not going to sign an m

1348
01:09:09,200 --> 01:09:11,320
Speaker 1: o U. It hadn't been presented to me by the

1349
01:09:11,360 --> 01:09:14,639
Speaker 1: search firm upfront. I said, I'll go into the interview,

1350
01:09:14,680 --> 01:09:18,880
Speaker 1: but if if somebody's like really unpleasant to me in

1351
01:09:18,920 --> 01:09:23,760
Speaker 1: the interview process. UMA, he was saying that you would

1352
01:09:23,760 --> 01:09:25,600
Speaker 1: accept the job if it got offered to you and

1353
01:09:25,880 --> 01:09:28,719
Speaker 1: they're asking. I mean, that's part of some search firms

1354
01:09:29,240 --> 01:09:32,040
Speaker 1: function that way. And so I said, I'm not going

1355
01:09:32,120 --> 01:09:34,360
Speaker 1: to sign the m o U and kind of we

1356
01:09:34,400 --> 01:09:38,240
Speaker 1: went back and forth probably forty eight hours, and UM,

1357
01:09:38,439 --> 01:09:40,320
Speaker 1: it's probably the one time where I said, you know,

1358
01:09:40,360 --> 01:09:43,040
Speaker 1: there was it's a pretty good salary jump for where

1359
01:09:43,080 --> 01:09:45,760
Speaker 1: I was and and talked it through here and got

1360
01:09:45,760 --> 01:09:50,160
Speaker 1: a little bit more and and maybe Clay, that was

1361
01:09:50,200 --> 01:09:53,960
Speaker 1: the first time I ever thought about, UM, you know

1362
01:09:54,000 --> 01:09:58,679
Speaker 1: what happens when when Mike Slive decides to step away

1363
01:09:58,840 --> 01:10:03,360
Speaker 1: and he and I, uh, just a conversation about, Hey,

1364
01:10:03,400 --> 01:10:05,439
Speaker 1: one of the reasons I'm thinking about going to the

1365
01:10:05,439 --> 01:10:08,479
Speaker 1: Mid American Conference is you know, you'll work five more

1366
01:10:08,560 --> 01:10:12,080
Speaker 1: years or so, and then i'd be a candidate as

1367
01:10:12,080 --> 01:10:16,920
Speaker 1: opposed to being an internal candidate, potentially having multiple internal candidates.

1368
01:10:17,840 --> 01:10:21,120
Speaker 1: And UM encouraged me to rethink that, and I did,

1369
01:10:21,240 --> 01:10:24,760
Speaker 1: and you know, the rest is history, as they say,

1370
01:10:24,800 --> 01:10:27,240
Speaker 1: But it wasn't quite this easy a decision in the moment,

1371
01:10:27,640 --> 01:10:31,200
Speaker 1: all right. So while you're at the SEC working there,

1372
01:10:31,240 --> 01:10:34,479
Speaker 1: what would you say your expertise became on a day

1373
01:10:34,520 --> 01:10:36,519
Speaker 1: to day basis you would, I'm sure take care of

1374
01:10:36,560 --> 01:10:38,960
Speaker 1: a lot of different things. But what did you find

1375
01:10:39,000 --> 01:10:40,760
Speaker 1: as you kind of found your footing after you came

1376
01:10:40,800 --> 01:10:43,920
Speaker 1: back from that Colligate job, was sort of your wheelhouse

1377
01:10:43,960 --> 01:10:49,280
Speaker 1: that you think you contributed to most of the conference end? Wow,

1378
01:10:49,479 --> 01:10:55,120
Speaker 1: that's like, uh, that's a question. You know. I had

1379
01:10:55,160 --> 01:11:02,200
Speaker 1: this regulatory compliance legislative role and threw myself into what

1380
01:11:02,240 --> 01:11:03,760
Speaker 1: I think it was pretty good at what was hand,

1381
01:11:03,960 --> 01:11:07,360
Speaker 1: what was what was happening nationally in that that regard

1382
01:11:07,439 --> 01:11:10,000
Speaker 1: and being ahead of it, but also thinking of and

1383
01:11:10,160 --> 01:11:13,439
Speaker 1: understanding what was happening on our campus that I still

1384
01:11:13,479 --> 01:11:17,240
Speaker 1: think I understand, not um at the level of detail

1385
01:11:17,280 --> 01:11:19,320
Speaker 1: if I lived on one of our campuses, but I

1386
01:11:19,360 --> 01:11:22,360
Speaker 1: know how our people think, and that is an asset

1387
01:11:23,160 --> 01:11:25,439
Speaker 1: um and that's one that comes with having now been

1388
01:11:25,479 --> 01:11:31,000
Speaker 1: here for sixteen and a half years. UM. And then

1389
01:11:31,400 --> 01:11:35,520
Speaker 1: I think, um, I say this with a level of humility.

1390
01:11:36,120 --> 01:11:38,479
Speaker 1: I think I was of more benefit to Mike than

1391
01:11:38,520 --> 01:11:42,160
Speaker 1: I understood at the time because he gave me permission

1392
01:11:42,200 --> 01:11:45,400
Speaker 1: to be just completely honest with him, and I was

1393
01:11:45,640 --> 01:11:50,040
Speaker 1: good at playing that role, not because of anything in particular,

1394
01:11:50,160 --> 01:11:52,760
Speaker 1: maybe just personality to say, hey, did you think about

1395
01:11:52,760 --> 01:11:55,240
Speaker 1: it this way, and he tell me I have and

1396
01:11:55,920 --> 01:12:00,840
Speaker 1: I'm going this direction or that's a really bad suggestion. Um.

1397
01:12:00,880 --> 01:12:07,200
Speaker 1: But UM, you know, from my perspective, we had a

1398
01:12:07,320 --> 01:12:13,280
Speaker 1: really really effective working relationship. What was it like during expansion?

1399
01:12:14,080 --> 01:12:16,960
Speaker 1: So you you end up adding Missouri and Texas, A

1400
01:12:16,960 --> 01:12:20,480
Speaker 1: and M. I'm guessing that's probably by far the craziest

1401
01:12:20,520 --> 01:12:23,880
Speaker 1: time in your time in the SEC office. Would that

1402
01:12:23,920 --> 01:12:26,320
Speaker 1: be fair to say? What was that process like from

1403
01:12:26,320 --> 01:12:29,920
Speaker 1: your perspective? Yeah? I think um that the year before

1404
01:12:30,120 --> 01:12:34,640
Speaker 1: people forget the two thousand and ten was when the

1405
01:12:34,760 --> 01:12:38,519
Speaker 1: Pack ten looked at becoming the Pack six team. Right,

1406
01:12:38,600 --> 01:12:40,240
Speaker 1: they were going to add Texas, they were going to

1407
01:12:40,280 --> 01:12:43,080
Speaker 1: add A and M Oklahoma, Okahoma State and all those

1408
01:12:43,080 --> 01:12:47,680
Speaker 1: teams from the Big twelve. Yeah, and expansion among us

1409
01:12:47,680 --> 01:12:52,920
Speaker 1: all was relatively quiet at that time, and then it

1410
01:12:53,160 --> 01:12:58,640
Speaker 1: just kind of goes and how do we respond? You know,

1411
01:12:58,680 --> 01:13:04,439
Speaker 1: we weren't the recruits like everyone else was. Um, and

1412
01:13:04,760 --> 01:13:09,120
Speaker 1: twelve worked worked really well. We had just gone through

1413
01:13:09,240 --> 01:13:12,720
Speaker 1: a TV renegotiation in two thousand and eight that was

1414
01:13:13,040 --> 01:13:19,240
Speaker 1: beneficial with the huge expansion in ESPN revenue, the continuity

1415
01:13:19,240 --> 01:13:22,920
Speaker 1: with CBS, and so then eleven comes and it was

1416
01:13:23,000 --> 01:13:26,120
Speaker 1: first A and M as people recall, and and yeah,

1417
01:13:26,160 --> 01:13:30,520
Speaker 1: there was just a level of intensity around that experience

1418
01:13:30,640 --> 01:13:34,320
Speaker 1: from what August into September when it was announced, and

1419
01:13:34,360 --> 01:13:39,000
Speaker 1: then on the other side of the announcement was scheduling

1420
01:13:39,040 --> 01:13:41,600
Speaker 1: for a thirteen league team, which we were prepared to

1421
01:13:41,640 --> 01:13:48,080
Speaker 1: be come and then the Missouri edition in November kind

1422
01:13:48,080 --> 01:13:51,759
Speaker 1: of after you've had some of these thirteen team plans settled.

1423
01:13:53,280 --> 01:13:56,920
Speaker 1: At the same time, there's this network talk that was

1424
01:13:56,960 --> 01:14:03,400
Speaker 1: in the background that was bubbling uh um. And you know, yeah,

1425
01:14:03,479 --> 01:14:06,080
Speaker 1: there was an intensity, but then I think the intensity

1426
01:14:06,160 --> 01:14:11,000
Speaker 1: ramped up after expansion because you had the need to schedule,

1427
01:14:11,400 --> 01:14:15,479
Speaker 1: to orient, to learn, to to accommodate it. Just also

1428
01:14:15,560 --> 01:14:19,320
Speaker 1: you've got meetings with two new two universities represented. They're

1429
01:14:19,400 --> 01:14:23,880
Speaker 1: learning you, you're learning them, uh and you know, now

1430
01:14:23,920 --> 01:14:30,200
Speaker 1: we're into twelve and so the the network idea which

1431
01:14:30,280 --> 01:14:32,760
Speaker 1: had been there in oh seven oh eight but not

1432
01:14:33,720 --> 01:14:39,519
Speaker 1: you know pursued, is now now has new life. And

1433
01:14:39,760 --> 01:14:43,479
Speaker 1: you know, your work from expansion into transition and then

1434
01:14:43,520 --> 01:14:47,400
Speaker 1: into how to to launch a conference network. So those

1435
01:14:47,479 --> 01:14:51,519
Speaker 1: were really uh set of intense years where you never

1436
01:14:51,640 --> 01:14:55,120
Speaker 1: had a business as usual experience. How does schools reach

1437
01:14:55,160 --> 01:14:59,479
Speaker 1: out when you know when conference realignment is going on.

1438
01:14:59,760 --> 01:15:02,320
Speaker 1: Is that's something where you've got a friend who is

1439
01:15:02,680 --> 01:15:04,599
Speaker 1: who is in a school and he calls you up

1440
01:15:04,600 --> 01:15:07,000
Speaker 1: and it's like, hey, would you be interested if this

1441
01:15:07,040 --> 01:15:10,880
Speaker 1: possibility came out? Like how do you become aware of

1442
01:15:10,920 --> 01:15:14,880
Speaker 1: what your options are and the contacts are because it's

1443
01:15:14,880 --> 01:15:17,760
Speaker 1: a complex process, right, I mean, nobody wants It's like,

1444
01:15:17,800 --> 01:15:19,559
Speaker 1: you don't want to try to get into a conference

1445
01:15:19,600 --> 01:15:21,439
Speaker 1: until you know they'll have you. But how do you

1446
01:15:21,439 --> 01:15:23,880
Speaker 1: know whether conference can have you? I'm fascinated by the

1447
01:15:23,880 --> 01:15:28,000
Speaker 1: whole process by which that takes place. That's formula is

1448
01:15:28,120 --> 01:15:33,400
Speaker 1: locked in a fall behind steel doors with secret combinations

1449
01:15:33,479 --> 01:15:39,120
Speaker 1: that only I know and so you know it's it varies,

1450
01:15:39,200 --> 01:15:41,800
Speaker 1: I think because you really looked across the landscape, so

1451
01:15:41,960 --> 01:15:45,479
Speaker 1: you look at at the PACT ten experience that were

1452
01:15:45,479 --> 01:15:50,919
Speaker 1: consultants involved outreach ours or people were people calling here

1453
01:15:51,040 --> 01:15:55,560
Speaker 1: or intermediaries just said hey, they'd be interested, And obviously

1454
01:15:55,640 --> 01:16:00,599
Speaker 1: there's a lot of care. Uh, Missouri and Texas, A

1455
01:16:00,439 --> 01:16:04,920
Speaker 1: and M or both members of the American Association Universities

1456
01:16:05,080 --> 01:16:09,240
Speaker 1: prestigious research universities or in contiguous states fan bases that

1457
01:16:09,280 --> 01:16:13,800
Speaker 1: are similar with metropolitan areas, so there are very few

1458
01:16:13,880 --> 01:16:18,320
Speaker 1: who really fit that. But we were never the recruiting

1459
01:16:18,479 --> 01:16:22,080
Speaker 1: entity in those processes, and in at least in the

1460
01:16:23,080 --> 01:16:26,800
Speaker 1: eleven time frame. How do you deal with leaks like

1461
01:16:26,880 --> 01:16:29,920
Speaker 1: that still exists now that you're the commissioner of the conference.

1462
01:16:30,240 --> 01:16:32,240
Speaker 1: But I remember and I'm sure you do as well.

1463
01:16:32,320 --> 01:16:35,880
Speaker 1: The news officially came out when the SEC accidentally had

1464
01:16:35,960 --> 01:16:39,879
Speaker 1: a staged page right on for Missouri announcing that Missouri

1465
01:16:39,920 --> 01:16:42,320
Speaker 1: was going to be fourteenth member of the SEC, And

1466
01:16:42,439 --> 01:16:44,639
Speaker 1: somebody sent that to me and I remember writing about

1467
01:16:44,680 --> 01:16:46,200
Speaker 1: it and being like, oh, this is amazing. But it

1468
01:16:46,240 --> 01:16:48,920
Speaker 1: had quotes from you know, a bunch of different people,

1469
01:16:49,000 --> 01:16:51,439
Speaker 1: like it was seton, ready to roll. But how do

1470
01:16:51,520 --> 01:16:54,040
Speaker 1: you know, you know when there's when there's that much interest,

1471
01:16:54,240 --> 01:16:56,680
Speaker 1: right and for people who don't remember listening to us

1472
01:16:56,800 --> 01:17:01,600
Speaker 1: right now, I mean, realignment was absolute fever, pitch crazy.

1473
01:17:02,080 --> 01:17:07,240
Speaker 1: It combines act, you know, business, uh, politics certainly uh

1474
01:17:07,280 --> 01:17:09,920
Speaker 1: the money aside, the conference growth, everything. I mean, this

1475
01:17:09,960 --> 01:17:11,639
Speaker 1: is as big of a story as you can get.

1476
01:17:11,760 --> 01:17:16,920
Speaker 1: How do you handle something like that? Well? Very carefully? So, like,

1477
01:17:16,920 --> 01:17:20,559
Speaker 1: how many people do you think the leak is? Well,

1478
01:17:20,640 --> 01:17:23,840
Speaker 1: Mike Mike was one of the things I learned a

1479
01:17:23,840 --> 01:17:27,160
Speaker 1: lot from working with one of those great privileges of

1480
01:17:27,200 --> 01:17:30,040
Speaker 1: my career. You know, for me personally, there are two

1481
01:17:30,040 --> 01:17:32,080
Speaker 1: things that really helped me. One, I was in charge

1482
01:17:32,080 --> 01:17:34,439
Speaker 1: of a conference and so you realize how different is

1483
01:17:34,479 --> 01:17:37,479
Speaker 1: to be the decision maker at the end of the hall,

1484
01:17:38,080 --> 01:17:39,920
Speaker 1: even in a small setting. And the second one was

1485
01:17:39,960 --> 01:17:42,800
Speaker 1: just to work with him and see how he functioned.

1486
01:17:43,520 --> 01:17:46,520
Speaker 1: And you know, you're you're gonna be protective of information.

1487
01:17:46,600 --> 01:17:50,200
Speaker 1: I've forgotten about that web page piece. Yeah, that's a

1488
01:17:50,200 --> 01:17:54,200
Speaker 1: pretty good memory. That's that brought shock to my face. Um,

1489
01:17:54,240 --> 01:17:57,160
Speaker 1: but action when you see that the Missouri joining the

1490
01:17:57,280 --> 01:18:01,880
Speaker 1: SEC web page has leaked, as you said it, I'm

1491
01:18:01,920 --> 01:18:05,559
Speaker 1: recalling somebody came into my office because, uh, you know,

1492
01:18:05,600 --> 01:18:07,760
Speaker 1: at that time, I was an associate commissioner. I had

1493
01:18:07,800 --> 01:18:11,120
Speaker 1: not been named the chief operating Officer. My title hadn't

1494
01:18:11,160 --> 01:18:13,559
Speaker 1: bumped up, so I had a role, but it wasn't

1495
01:18:13,600 --> 01:18:17,639
Speaker 1: like what it became. And I'm like you, you're you've

1496
01:18:17,680 --> 01:18:21,040
Speaker 1: got to be kidding me. How does that happen? And

1497
01:18:21,200 --> 01:18:23,240
Speaker 1: you know you kind of stayed away from Mike's office

1498
01:18:23,280 --> 01:18:25,040
Speaker 1: at that point in the day to let kind of

1499
01:18:25,080 --> 01:18:29,360
Speaker 1: whatever whatever fure or you know, be delivered where it

1500
01:18:29,400 --> 01:18:31,600
Speaker 1: needed to be delivered, and then I'd come kind of

1501
01:18:32,280 --> 01:18:35,720
Speaker 1: clean it up. It's um. But on the other hand,

1502
01:18:35,720 --> 01:18:37,760
Speaker 1: there are things that are reported where you're like, that's

1503
01:18:37,760 --> 01:18:40,639
Speaker 1: not true. I once sat behind an Army general reading

1504
01:18:40,760 --> 01:18:42,559
Speaker 1: USA today in an n c A meeting, and I said,

1505
01:18:42,600 --> 01:18:44,679
Speaker 1: you know, in athletics we have these things are leaked

1506
01:18:44,720 --> 01:18:47,559
Speaker 1: or anonymous sources say, and you're like, half of it's

1507
01:18:47,600 --> 01:18:49,559
Speaker 1: just wrong. I said, what's it like in the military.

1508
01:18:49,640 --> 01:18:51,960
Speaker 1: Is during the the original desert storm? He said, oh,

1509
01:18:52,000 --> 01:18:55,240
Speaker 1: it's the same thing. So you know, we have to

1510
01:18:55,280 --> 01:18:59,599
Speaker 1: be careful because, especially in the Southeastern Conference, there's so

1511
01:18:59,680 --> 01:19:05,120
Speaker 1: much interest in what we do that it is um.

1512
01:19:05,280 --> 01:19:09,080
Speaker 1: You know, you lose opportunities, you can lose value. Uh,

1513
01:19:09,200 --> 01:19:12,560
Speaker 1: you can lose options if it all plays out in

1514
01:19:12,640 --> 01:19:16,120
Speaker 1: the media. And we just walked through this discussion of

1515
01:19:16,160 --> 01:19:18,800
Speaker 1: alcohol that went on for a long period of time

1516
01:19:18,960 --> 01:19:21,920
Speaker 1: this past year, and we had a working group look

1517
01:19:21,960 --> 01:19:26,200
Speaker 1: at it. But I'd say continually to our membership, if

1518
01:19:26,200 --> 01:19:28,400
Speaker 1: you want to debate this in the newspapers, all that

1519
01:19:28,479 --> 01:19:32,280
Speaker 1: will do is harden people's positions on both ends. And

1520
01:19:32,320 --> 01:19:34,600
Speaker 1: if we want to work through this collaboratively. We have

1521
01:19:34,800 --> 01:19:38,519
Speaker 1: to do it without leaks and anonymous sources. And you know,

1522
01:19:38,560 --> 01:19:40,880
Speaker 1: we were pretty good for about fifty one weeks there

1523
01:19:41,439 --> 01:19:44,679
Speaker 1: before it became a topic as we had it into destined,

1524
01:19:44,680 --> 01:19:48,320
Speaker 1: which we knew it would become. And and really the

1525
01:19:49,880 --> 01:19:51,559
Speaker 1: essence of your question is, you know, how do you

1526
01:19:51,640 --> 01:19:53,880
Speaker 1: react to to leaks? How do you deal with it?

1527
01:19:54,360 --> 01:19:56,400
Speaker 1: You know, you try to manage it up front, not

1528
01:19:56,520 --> 01:19:59,559
Speaker 1: because you're trying to be deceitful or overly protected, but

1529
01:19:59,600 --> 01:20:04,559
Speaker 1: because you have to have room and freedom in space

1530
01:20:04,680 --> 01:20:09,000
Speaker 1: to do the work of the conference. So Mike's live,

1531
01:20:09,760 --> 01:20:14,000
Speaker 1: you had the expansion occur, and then he tells you

1532
01:20:14,040 --> 01:20:16,280
Speaker 1: when did you become aware that he was planning on

1533
01:20:16,320 --> 01:20:18,640
Speaker 1: stepping down? Did he call you into his office and

1534
01:20:18,640 --> 01:20:21,519
Speaker 1: tell you? What was that process like for you? Well,

1535
01:20:21,560 --> 01:20:25,519
Speaker 1: remember Mike, Mike's prostate cancer reared up in a really,

1536
01:20:26,000 --> 01:20:32,719
Speaker 1: really dramatic way in the summer of fourteen UM. And

1537
01:20:33,320 --> 01:20:37,920
Speaker 1: I think it's probably in September UM where he and

1538
01:20:37,960 --> 01:20:40,200
Speaker 1: I were on his back porch, a place he loved,

1539
01:20:40,280 --> 01:20:44,640
Speaker 1: where I really understood, um the gravity of the situation,

1540
01:20:45,120 --> 01:20:49,839
Speaker 1: and I had had another opportunity of substance present itself

1541
01:20:49,920 --> 01:20:53,800
Speaker 1: in college athletics and all of a sudden, you know,

1542
01:20:54,520 --> 01:20:56,960
Speaker 1: a guide to whom I'm loyal, a conference that's been

1543
01:20:57,120 --> 01:21:01,480
Speaker 1: a good place for me. Um, it's a little bit undefined.

1544
01:21:01,640 --> 01:21:04,960
Speaker 1: And remember this is the summer of two thousand fourteen,

1545
01:21:05,680 --> 01:21:09,639
Speaker 1: so we're launching a network. You know, distribution as a question,

1546
01:21:10,280 --> 01:21:13,040
Speaker 1: UM as you go into July, and then things started

1547
01:21:13,080 --> 01:21:16,519
Speaker 1: to break right around Media Days with Comcast. We had

1548
01:21:16,600 --> 01:21:20,839
Speaker 1: Dish and a t tu Verse up front direct barely

1549
01:21:20,920 --> 01:21:24,240
Speaker 1: before the actual direct TV came on that night, which

1550
01:21:24,280 --> 01:21:27,160
Speaker 1: is what I have. So we were fully distributed, with

1551
01:21:27,200 --> 01:21:29,439
Speaker 1: the exception of what was then Cable Vision in New

1552
01:21:29,520 --> 01:21:34,639
Speaker 1: York City and we're now on its success or Altis UM.

1553
01:21:34,760 --> 01:21:36,720
Speaker 1: So he had that like what's going to happen. You

1554
01:21:36,760 --> 01:21:39,719
Speaker 1: had the launch of the network and game scheduled differently

1555
01:21:40,000 --> 01:21:43,160
Speaker 1: is an we're gonna watch sec Nation. And then then

1556
01:21:43,360 --> 01:21:46,840
Speaker 1: Mike just had this this health reality and you know,

1557
01:21:46,840 --> 01:21:48,920
Speaker 1: in retirement. I think what he had said had been

1558
01:21:48,920 --> 01:21:51,439
Speaker 1: on his mind during that summer for the next year,

1559
01:21:52,200 --> 01:21:57,720
Speaker 1: and UM, that announcement came out in October that he

1560
01:21:57,760 --> 01:22:01,040
Speaker 1: would be retiring, and you know he's going through that

1561
01:22:01,120 --> 01:22:05,919
Speaker 1: chemo battle just as tough as nails. He had a uh,

1562
01:22:05,960 --> 01:22:09,720
Speaker 1: you know, just watching those treatments and and what it

1563
01:22:09,720 --> 01:22:13,479
Speaker 1: would do and people who have had you know, friends

1564
01:22:13,600 --> 01:22:18,360
Speaker 1: or family members with our colleagues fight cancer, no know

1565
01:22:18,520 --> 01:22:21,280
Speaker 1: how hard that battle could be, but just a spirit

1566
01:22:21,479 --> 01:22:25,680
Speaker 1: that was remarkable to watch. And then for me in October,

1567
01:22:26,520 --> 01:22:28,280
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, I became like the number one

1568
01:22:28,360 --> 01:22:31,120
Speaker 1: ranked team in the country. I was kidding with Calipari

1569
01:22:31,240 --> 01:22:35,960
Speaker 1: because that your Kentucky went through undefeated until the Semish

1570
01:22:36,120 --> 01:22:39,400
Speaker 1: nationally and so people say, well, it's gonna be Greg

1571
01:22:39,439 --> 01:22:41,639
Speaker 1: Sanky and that was never the deal. You know. Nick

1572
01:22:41,720 --> 01:22:44,600
Speaker 1: Zeppos was the chair of our Presidents and Chancellors, and

1573
01:22:44,640 --> 01:22:47,360
Speaker 1: he was great to say, we're gonna go through a

1574
01:22:47,400 --> 01:22:50,160
Speaker 1: full search. That's in the best interest of the conference,

1575
01:22:50,200 --> 01:22:53,040
Speaker 1: and frankly, that's the right thing for you. A lot

1576
01:22:53,080 --> 01:22:55,480
Speaker 1: of people think highly of you. You'll be a candidate.

1577
01:22:56,360 --> 01:23:01,040
Speaker 1: And then it was a really intense I'm a preparation,

1578
01:23:01,479 --> 01:23:04,040
Speaker 1: like how do you see this conference in the future,

1579
01:23:04,600 --> 01:23:06,560
Speaker 1: And so I had my day job to do. We

1580
01:23:06,880 --> 01:23:08,680
Speaker 1: all shared a little bit more because we wanted to

1581
01:23:08,680 --> 01:23:11,840
Speaker 1: make sure Mike was well supported and his schedule was

1582
01:23:11,960 --> 01:23:14,519
Speaker 1: different as as he went through his his health battle

1583
01:23:15,120 --> 01:23:17,439
Speaker 1: and then I was trying to repair materials and how

1584
01:23:17,479 --> 01:23:21,600
Speaker 1: do you communicate about the future of the Southeastern Conference?

1585
01:23:21,640 --> 01:23:24,880
Speaker 1: And it was like the posture or the question to

1586
01:23:24,920 --> 01:23:27,800
Speaker 1: me was how do you take the SEC to the

1587
01:23:27,840 --> 01:23:31,000
Speaker 1: next level? And I like, I like process that for

1588
01:23:31,040 --> 01:23:33,040
Speaker 1: a couple of weeks because I've always thought of us

1589
01:23:33,080 --> 01:23:34,760
Speaker 1: as being the next level. You know, we want to

1590
01:23:34,760 --> 01:23:37,080
Speaker 1: be the Jones is that the people are keeping up with.

1591
01:23:38,120 --> 01:23:41,200
Speaker 1: And you know, it's not just easy to say, Okay,

1592
01:23:41,200 --> 01:23:43,160
Speaker 1: we're gonna do this, We're gonna do that. You can't

1593
01:23:43,160 --> 01:23:47,400
Speaker 1: control competitive outcomes or TV contracts are set. So how

1594
01:23:47,400 --> 01:23:50,679
Speaker 1: do you think in a big picture way about the SEC?

1595
01:23:50,840 --> 01:23:56,000
Speaker 1: And that became every waking moment where I wasn't on

1596
01:23:56,120 --> 01:23:59,360
Speaker 1: the job, was me with an orange note book talking

1597
01:23:59,360 --> 01:24:03,320
Speaker 1: to people thinking about ideas. You know, where my kind

1598
01:24:03,320 --> 01:24:06,280
Speaker 1: of pitch came was literally on a Southwest airlized flight,

1599
01:24:06,320 --> 01:24:09,400
Speaker 1: writing ideas out on napkins because I forgot my arms notebook.

1600
01:24:10,200 --> 01:24:13,280
Speaker 1: Um that eventually formed the presentation I made during the

1601
01:24:13,320 --> 01:24:17,120
Speaker 1: interview process. And you see on our championship sign and

1602
01:24:17,280 --> 01:24:19,760
Speaker 1: some of the words about scholars, champions and leaders just

1603
01:24:19,840 --> 01:24:22,719
Speaker 1: conveying that here's what we're trying to do as a league.

1604
01:24:23,439 --> 01:24:24,960
Speaker 1: Uh and if we do it well, we're going to

1605
01:24:25,040 --> 01:24:29,240
Speaker 1: have TV contracts and interest in viewership and and fans

1606
01:24:29,240 --> 01:24:33,280
Speaker 1: attending games. Um So that that probably I just veered

1607
01:24:33,320 --> 01:24:36,800
Speaker 1: from the essence of the question, Clay, But that's it

1608
01:24:37,000 --> 01:24:41,200
Speaker 1: was a year of you know, concern for a friend

1609
01:24:41,320 --> 01:24:47,240
Speaker 1: first and foremost, but also recognition that, Okay, here's your opportunity.

1610
01:24:47,800 --> 01:24:50,439
Speaker 1: You don't want to go into that interview wondering if

1611
01:24:50,439 --> 01:24:53,720
Speaker 1: I've done everything I could to prepare and uh so

1612
01:24:53,840 --> 01:24:57,000
Speaker 1: I spent a lot of time thinking, preparing for what

1613
01:24:57,160 --> 01:25:00,000
Speaker 1: might be next. Where were you when you found out

1614
01:25:00,160 --> 01:25:03,880
Speaker 1: that you got the job? I was in Nashville, Um

1615
01:25:04,360 --> 01:25:08,320
Speaker 1: there were I went through three interviews in person interviews,

1616
01:25:08,320 --> 01:25:10,720
Speaker 1: the last with all of our presidents and chancellors. It

1617
01:25:10,800 --> 01:25:15,639
Speaker 1: was at the formal residence of the Vanderbilt chancellor. Uh.

1618
01:25:15,680 --> 01:25:17,640
Speaker 1: You know, they have to have a place that that

1619
01:25:17,800 --> 01:25:21,400
Speaker 1: is you know, hospitality related all that. So I went

1620
01:25:21,439 --> 01:25:24,519
Speaker 1: to an interview on a Thursday morning at like at

1621
01:25:24,520 --> 01:25:28,639
Speaker 1: eight o'clock for they grill you. Anybody can ask any question.

1622
01:25:28,720 --> 01:25:31,439
Speaker 1: Is it structured? What's that process? Like? Yeah, I was saying,

1623
01:25:31,840 --> 01:25:33,960
Speaker 1: you know, they probably know. I was sitting on a

1624
01:25:34,000 --> 01:25:37,040
Speaker 1: couch and and everybody got to ask questions one after

1625
01:25:37,120 --> 01:25:40,160
Speaker 1: the other, and the couch it was an older couch.

1626
01:25:40,200 --> 01:25:42,120
Speaker 1: I remember sitting up high. I have a picture on

1627
01:25:42,160 --> 01:25:46,519
Speaker 1: my phone and their fourteen presidents and chancellors on chairs

1628
01:25:46,640 --> 01:25:49,439
Speaker 1: surrounding me in a in a semi circle. And it

1629
01:25:49,520 --> 01:25:52,280
Speaker 1: was kind of one question after another. And then we

1630
01:25:52,400 --> 01:25:55,519
Speaker 1: had breakfast together where there's more questions in a you know,

1631
01:25:55,600 --> 01:25:57,799
Speaker 1: a little bit less formal setting. And then I left.

1632
01:25:58,400 --> 01:26:02,360
Speaker 1: I went back to the Renaissance downtown and uh, I

1633
01:26:02,439 --> 01:26:05,760
Speaker 1: was kind of processing what had just happened. And I

1634
01:26:05,880 --> 01:26:07,960
Speaker 1: went into a meeting because I had to go back

1635
01:26:08,000 --> 01:26:11,839
Speaker 1: at noon for the formal regular meeting of our presidents

1636
01:26:11,840 --> 01:26:14,240
Speaker 1: and chancellors. So it's about ten thirty I go back.

1637
01:26:14,280 --> 01:26:18,160
Speaker 1: I walk in. Mike text me what's going on? And uh,

1638
01:26:18,360 --> 01:26:20,519
Speaker 1: I said, hey, I'm back in the hotel, like where

1639
01:26:20,560 --> 01:26:22,639
Speaker 1: are you? And so he's asking me questions. I walked

1640
01:26:22,640 --> 01:26:25,800
Speaker 1: into this room of colleagues. People kind of knew what

1641
01:26:25,840 --> 01:26:27,880
Speaker 1: was going on, but they did a really good job

1642
01:26:27,960 --> 01:26:32,040
Speaker 1: our presidents of keeping matters confidential. And I felt like

1643
01:26:32,080 --> 01:26:35,280
Speaker 1: dead man walking, or like what's what's happening, And so

1644
01:26:35,479 --> 01:26:37,280
Speaker 1: I kind of assumed if it was me, it would

1645
01:26:37,320 --> 01:26:40,479
Speaker 1: happen quickly and I'd get a phone call, and then

1646
01:26:40,560 --> 01:26:43,559
Speaker 1: like an hour goes by and there's no phone call, like, wow,

1647
01:26:43,600 --> 01:26:46,880
Speaker 1: this is this is interesting. I then had to get

1648
01:26:46,920 --> 01:26:50,400
Speaker 1: back in a car and ride back out to the

1649
01:26:50,439 --> 01:26:53,840
Speaker 1: same location for our formal, regular business meeting of a

1650
01:26:53,920 --> 01:26:59,120
Speaker 1: president's and chancellors hadn't heard a think, and Mike was

1651
01:26:59,160 --> 01:27:03,920
Speaker 1: in the passengers seat and his executive assistant now who

1652
01:27:03,920 --> 01:27:06,760
Speaker 1: works as my executive assistant, was driving, and I'm in

1653
01:27:06,800 --> 01:27:08,479
Speaker 1: the back and in a pretty good mood. I'm like, hey,

1654
01:27:08,479 --> 01:27:10,479
Speaker 1: I did the best I could. We'll see what happens.

1655
01:27:10,479 --> 01:27:13,000
Speaker 1: And I kind of went on a downward spiral of man,

1656
01:27:13,040 --> 01:27:15,080
Speaker 1: if I don't get this, you know what's going to happen.

1657
01:27:15,120 --> 01:27:17,280
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go on the next part of my career,

1658
01:27:17,439 --> 01:27:21,120
Speaker 1: and like the dark clouds started to hover. And Claire

1659
01:27:21,160 --> 01:27:24,559
Speaker 1: I told that story like six months later. Her Vinson,

1660
01:27:24,600 --> 01:27:27,840
Speaker 1: our Associate Commissioner for Communication, said how I was in

1661
01:27:27,840 --> 01:27:30,679
Speaker 1: the back seat with you and I'm like, seriously, you were.

1662
01:27:31,200 --> 01:27:33,160
Speaker 1: He's like, yeah, I wrote in that same car out

1663
01:27:33,200 --> 01:27:35,479
Speaker 1: to that meeting, like her, but I don't remember you

1664
01:27:35,560 --> 01:27:39,000
Speaker 1: being there at all on that ride because your mind

1665
01:27:39,080 --> 01:27:41,080
Speaker 1: just kind of takes over. And so we pull up.

1666
01:27:41,439 --> 01:27:44,679
Speaker 1: I looked at Catherine, who would helped administratively with the search.

1667
01:27:44,720 --> 01:27:47,559
Speaker 1: I said, what am I supposed to do? And she said,

1668
01:27:47,800 --> 01:27:49,639
Speaker 1: I don't know, And so it's one of those moments

1669
01:27:49,640 --> 01:27:51,200
Speaker 1: where you decide who you are, and I said, you

1670
01:27:51,200 --> 01:27:53,120
Speaker 1: know what, I did the best I could. I walked

1671
01:27:53,200 --> 01:27:56,160
Speaker 1: up the stairs with my head held high, and Nick's

1672
01:27:56,200 --> 01:27:58,280
Speaker 1: eppos comes out and says, Greg, come with me and

1673
01:27:58,280 --> 01:28:00,720
Speaker 1: brings me in a side room with a couple of

1674
01:28:00,760 --> 01:28:04,320
Speaker 1: other presidents and chancellors. I sit down and he says, congratulations,

1675
01:28:04,320 --> 01:28:06,600
Speaker 1: we want you to be our next commissioner, and like

1676
01:28:07,160 --> 01:28:10,560
Speaker 1: the world changed, and he kind of talked about structure

1677
01:28:10,600 --> 01:28:12,800
Speaker 1: of agreement, and then he said, what do you think?

1678
01:28:13,280 --> 01:28:16,080
Speaker 1: And the first thing I said was I just need

1679
01:28:16,120 --> 01:28:18,960
Speaker 1: a moment to tie my shoe. My shoe had come untied,

1680
01:28:19,479 --> 01:28:21,599
Speaker 1: and I had some things that I wanted to talk through,

1681
01:28:21,640 --> 01:28:24,240
Speaker 1: but I had needed to stop the world from spinning

1682
01:28:24,280 --> 01:28:27,600
Speaker 1: as quickly as they had become spinning. So did you

1683
01:28:27,720 --> 01:28:30,240
Speaker 1: think did you think they might tell you that you

1684
01:28:30,320 --> 01:28:32,160
Speaker 1: weren't going to get the job. When they pulled you

1685
01:28:32,200 --> 01:28:34,640
Speaker 1: into the side room, then yeah, I walked down the

1686
01:28:34,680 --> 01:28:37,920
Speaker 1: hallway with no idea what was about to happen. Um,

1687
01:28:37,960 --> 01:28:43,000
Speaker 1: and I credit it wasn't any fun, but um, it

1688
01:28:43,120 --> 01:28:47,479
Speaker 1: was a very thorough search. I mean it was interviewed

1689
01:28:47,520 --> 01:28:51,400
Speaker 1: other people that day too, sure as there were other finalists.

1690
01:28:51,520 --> 01:28:56,200
Speaker 1: I know. Yeah, it was you know, the Jet Hughes

1691
01:28:56,320 --> 01:28:59,160
Speaker 1: and and it was just involved in the big ten search.

1692
01:28:59,240 --> 01:29:02,360
Speaker 1: Jed led this search for corn Ferry, and that's a

1693
01:29:02,400 --> 01:29:05,280
Speaker 1: big time company and they involve all kinds of people.

1694
01:29:05,280 --> 01:29:07,880
Speaker 1: That's their jobs. So and that's what our presidents and

1695
01:29:07,960 --> 01:29:12,519
Speaker 1: chancellors wanted for their consideration. So how much so I

1696
01:29:12,520 --> 01:29:15,400
Speaker 1: remember talking to you soon after you got that um,

1697
01:29:15,479 --> 01:29:19,120
Speaker 1: and you said, almost immediately as you rise up to

1698
01:29:19,160 --> 01:29:22,360
Speaker 1: that level, you realize how much difference there was between

1699
01:29:22,400 --> 01:29:25,120
Speaker 1: being the number two guy and being the number one guy.

1700
01:29:25,320 --> 01:29:27,360
Speaker 1: You know, in other words, let's say your number two

1701
01:29:27,360 --> 01:29:30,200
Speaker 1: to Mike Slide at that point that the distance between

1702
01:29:30,280 --> 01:29:32,680
Speaker 1: number one and number two geographically may not have been

1703
01:29:32,800 --> 01:29:35,000
Speaker 1: very much in terms of your office and moving down

1704
01:29:35,000 --> 01:29:37,920
Speaker 1: the hall and everything else, but how much difference was

1705
01:29:38,000 --> 01:29:41,120
Speaker 1: there and how much difference did you suddenly have. I

1706
01:29:41,120 --> 01:29:43,760
Speaker 1: feel like, this is a long question, but you don't

1707
01:29:43,800 --> 01:29:45,760
Speaker 1: know what it's like to be a parent until you

1708
01:29:45,800 --> 01:29:47,880
Speaker 1: actually become a parent, and then you go back and

1709
01:29:47,920 --> 01:29:49,960
Speaker 1: you tell your own parents, like, you know what, you

1710
01:29:49,960 --> 01:29:51,680
Speaker 1: guys did a pretty good job, right, I mean, that's

1711
01:29:51,720 --> 01:29:54,439
Speaker 1: the ideal scenario. But you always kind of know what

1712
01:29:54,560 --> 01:29:57,680
Speaker 1: the process of being a kid is like. Could you

1713
01:29:57,760 --> 01:30:00,680
Speaker 1: have prepared what was it like to suddenly come the

1714
01:30:00,920 --> 01:30:07,559
Speaker 1: commissioner of the sec um? Yeah. So, as I gather

1715
01:30:07,720 --> 01:30:12,519
Speaker 1: thoughts and really answering that question, Mark Ricks as he

1716
01:30:12,720 --> 01:30:17,240
Speaker 1: left Georgia made an observation that's very simple. He says,

1717
01:30:17,240 --> 01:30:18,519
Speaker 1: you don't know what it's like to sit in the

1718
01:30:18,640 --> 01:30:22,360
Speaker 1: chair until you sit in the chair. And and that's

1719
01:30:22,400 --> 01:30:25,120
Speaker 1: the answer to your question, which is I was fifty

1720
01:30:25,200 --> 01:30:29,479
Speaker 1: yards from this this office as executive Associate Commissioner, but

1721
01:30:29,479 --> 01:30:33,000
Speaker 1: I was fifty thous miles away as far as rigor

1722
01:30:33,120 --> 01:30:36,680
Speaker 1: and focus and pressure and expectations. And I was as

1723
01:30:36,760 --> 01:30:38,680
Speaker 1: close to Mike as you could be on a day

1724
01:30:38,680 --> 01:30:42,160
Speaker 1: to day basis, but still didn't have the level of

1725
01:30:42,240 --> 01:30:44,280
Speaker 1: understanding of what it's really like. And you don't have

1726
01:30:44,400 --> 01:30:47,200
Speaker 1: that until you're in it. The advantage that I had

1727
01:30:47,280 --> 01:30:52,240
Speaker 1: for myself is a lot of what happened starting June one,

1728
01:30:52,320 --> 01:30:55,559
Speaker 1: where people come to you with ideas and then you

1729
01:30:55,640 --> 01:30:58,080
Speaker 1: have to make a decision is mentally I lived through

1730
01:30:58,120 --> 01:31:01,320
Speaker 1: that in the Southland conference. I'm off Broadway. I can

1731
01:31:01,400 --> 01:31:04,719
Speaker 1: make decisions that maybe could be highly criticized. They weren't

1732
01:31:04,760 --> 01:31:09,000
Speaker 1: because there just wasn't the visibility. But the mental process

1733
01:31:09,120 --> 01:31:12,160
Speaker 1: of listening to input and then making a decision is

1734
01:31:12,320 --> 01:31:17,000
Speaker 1: very different from being an advisor. And that's what happens

1735
01:31:17,000 --> 01:31:20,960
Speaker 1: when you go from to our associate commissioner to commissioner,

1736
01:31:21,000 --> 01:31:23,120
Speaker 1: as you went from being an advisor to being the

1737
01:31:23,160 --> 01:31:28,240
Speaker 1: decision maker and Clay, that's just that's a world world

1738
01:31:28,320 --> 01:31:31,360
Speaker 1: of difference. And you know, for me, we had some

1739
01:31:31,439 --> 01:31:34,040
Speaker 1: TV allocations that hit me in the first week. The

1740
01:31:34,120 --> 01:31:38,479
Speaker 1: second week there is um the tragic shooting in Charleston,

1741
01:31:38,520 --> 01:31:41,800
Speaker 1: South Carolina, and a flood of questions here about the

1742
01:31:41,840 --> 01:31:45,920
Speaker 1: Confederate battle flag display in South Carolina and the state

1743
01:31:45,960 --> 01:31:48,480
Speaker 1: flag of Mississippi. And then what are you gonna say publicly?

1744
01:31:48,880 --> 01:31:51,320
Speaker 1: You know, there's not a master's class that prepares you

1745
01:31:51,439 --> 01:31:54,200
Speaker 1: for those experiences, and those are like two of the

1746
01:31:54,280 --> 01:31:59,240
Speaker 1: quick ones. But then budget decisions personnel decisions. Um, you

1747
01:31:59,240 --> 01:32:01,240
Speaker 1: can have a play in, which is what I worked on.

1748
01:32:01,840 --> 01:32:04,120
Speaker 1: But then you know, it's kind of the Mike Tyson.

1749
01:32:04,120 --> 01:32:06,080
Speaker 1: Everybody has a plan, utility get punched in the face.

1750
01:32:06,760 --> 01:32:08,599
Speaker 1: And I'm going to do all this in the first year,

1751
01:32:08,640 --> 01:32:10,479
Speaker 1: and I probably got through half of what I thought

1752
01:32:10,479 --> 01:32:13,479
Speaker 1: i'd get through, just because you know, the day to

1753
01:32:13,560 --> 01:32:16,040
Speaker 1: day takes over as well. Be sure to catch live

1754
01:32:16,200 --> 01:32:19,080
Speaker 1: editions about kick the Coverage with Clay Travis week days

1755
01:32:19,120 --> 01:32:22,400
Speaker 1: at six am Eastern three am Pacific. We're talking to

1756
01:32:22,520 --> 01:32:25,439
Speaker 1: SEC Commissioner Greg Sanky. You can follow him on Twitter

1757
01:32:25,520 --> 01:32:27,839
Speaker 1: at Greg Sanky. This is Wins and Lost his podcast

1758
01:32:27,920 --> 01:32:31,240
Speaker 1: with Clay Travis. So you get the job. Um, and

1759
01:32:31,720 --> 01:32:34,519
Speaker 1: you are and and I'm fortunate to know you. I

1760
01:32:34,520 --> 01:32:37,400
Speaker 1: think pretty well. You're forward thinking, right, You're trying to

1761
01:32:37,439 --> 01:32:39,400
Speaker 1: think about not just the things that are going on

1762
01:32:39,560 --> 01:32:41,880
Speaker 1: right now, but also the things that might come in

1763
01:32:41,920 --> 01:32:44,439
Speaker 1: the future. And I remember having conversations when I wrote

1764
01:32:44,439 --> 01:32:47,160
Speaker 1: and talked some with Mike's Live about how he sort

1765
01:32:47,160 --> 01:32:49,559
Speaker 1: of viewed the SEC as a public trust right. You're

1766
01:32:49,560 --> 01:32:51,960
Speaker 1: trying to think about things that are going to leave

1767
01:32:52,000 --> 01:32:54,439
Speaker 1: that conference in better shape in the years and decades

1768
01:32:54,479 --> 01:32:58,639
Speaker 1: ahead than it was when when you took over. How

1769
01:32:58,720 --> 01:33:01,120
Speaker 1: much time now do you spend thinking about the day

1770
01:33:01,160 --> 01:33:05,880
Speaker 1: to day mechanics of running a conference versus decisions now

1771
01:33:05,920 --> 01:33:07,400
Speaker 1: that you want to make that are going to be

1772
01:33:07,439 --> 01:33:09,400
Speaker 1: putting the conference in a better shape five to ten

1773
01:33:09,479 --> 01:33:11,720
Speaker 1: years in the future. What on a day to day

1774
01:33:11,720 --> 01:33:15,960
Speaker 1: basis now? What is your focus? It's more down the road.

1775
01:33:16,000 --> 01:33:20,439
Speaker 1: There's always going to be operational elements UM in in

1776
01:33:20,479 --> 01:33:25,120
Speaker 1: a leadership kind of chief executive officer position. My first summer,

1777
01:33:25,240 --> 01:33:27,200
Speaker 1: one of the things I was encouraged to do by

1778
01:33:27,200 --> 01:33:30,880
Speaker 1: our presidents and chancellors is to go engage with the

1779
01:33:31,000 --> 01:33:35,120
Speaker 1: leadership consulting program of some sort, and I ended up

1780
01:33:35,160 --> 01:33:40,679
Speaker 1: with Deloitte Consulting has a CEO transition program that usually

1781
01:33:40,760 --> 01:33:43,559
Speaker 1: is about fortune five CEO, but it's about clarity of

1782
01:33:43,560 --> 01:33:47,720
Speaker 1: your vision focus UM And part of that question was

1783
01:33:47,760 --> 01:33:50,639
Speaker 1: really what they asked me, which is how much time

1784
01:33:50,680 --> 01:33:55,680
Speaker 1: do you spend on strategy and operations versus vision and

1785
01:33:55,760 --> 01:33:59,559
Speaker 1: planning and the challenges to move to vision and planning,

1786
01:33:59,600 --> 01:34:04,479
Speaker 1: so you're always looking you're looking forward, and when you're

1787
01:34:04,520 --> 01:34:09,320
Speaker 1: an internal candidate, you've been dealing with operations. Right for

1788
01:34:09,680 --> 01:34:12,599
Speaker 1: you know years and you have to move away from that. Well,

1789
01:34:12,600 --> 01:34:14,760
Speaker 1: that takes a little bit of time. If you're an

1790
01:34:14,800 --> 01:34:17,840
Speaker 1: external person, you know nothing about the operations, so you're

1791
01:34:17,920 --> 01:34:20,960
Speaker 1: learning that and you may even have CEO experience. So

1792
01:34:21,320 --> 01:34:24,439
Speaker 1: I don't. I actually like the internal part because I

1793
01:34:24,439 --> 01:34:27,479
Speaker 1: could get after some of the immediate needs as opposed

1794
01:34:27,479 --> 01:34:30,960
Speaker 1: to having to figure it out for a couple of years. UM.

1795
01:34:31,000 --> 01:34:34,960
Speaker 1: I spend more time now looking down the road. Uh,

1796
01:34:35,000 --> 01:34:38,800
Speaker 1: you know five years and I've spent time after my

1797
01:34:38,960 --> 01:34:42,840
Speaker 1: first or second year trying to engage in more learning

1798
01:34:42,920 --> 01:34:45,360
Speaker 1: about what is the future really look like? Be a

1799
01:34:45,520 --> 01:34:51,200
Speaker 1: media be it trying to understand litigation outcomes, be at

1800
01:34:51,840 --> 01:34:57,960
Speaker 1: what's happening in higher education enrollment patterns, economically in our region, UM.

1801
01:34:58,040 --> 01:35:04,120
Speaker 1: You know, understanding chan ages and culture around media consumption

1802
01:35:04,800 --> 01:35:08,720
Speaker 1: of an attendance. UM. And you know, there are a

1803
01:35:08,760 --> 01:35:11,519
Speaker 1: set of issues that just in the last four years

1804
01:35:12,040 --> 01:35:16,400
Speaker 1: looked very different than they did again June one, when

1805
01:35:16,439 --> 01:35:19,360
Speaker 1: I started my first day in this role. And you

1806
01:35:20,120 --> 01:35:22,080
Speaker 1: can't spend your day just trying to figure out your

1807
01:35:22,160 --> 01:35:26,000
Speaker 1: arc chart. UM, you better be thinking about what it

1808
01:35:26,120 --> 01:35:28,720
Speaker 1: is that's around the corner, even though we can't see it.

1809
01:35:29,160 --> 01:35:32,679
Speaker 1: One of those that's been wildly successful is the SEC network.

1810
01:35:32,840 --> 01:35:34,559
Speaker 1: I mean, you guys hit it out of the park

1811
01:35:34,680 --> 01:35:37,839
Speaker 1: on the launch. You guys in ESPN put it together

1812
01:35:38,000 --> 01:35:40,360
Speaker 1: about as well as it possibly could have gone. No

1813
01:35:40,439 --> 01:35:44,240
Speaker 1: one missed any games, there was no disruption in the

1814
01:35:44,360 --> 01:35:46,880
Speaker 1: SEC fan base. You thought you might have to fight

1815
01:35:46,920 --> 01:35:48,760
Speaker 1: a battle, but it ended up that you just had

1816
01:35:48,800 --> 01:35:51,960
Speaker 1: to line up and execute a great business plan. But

1817
01:35:52,240 --> 01:35:55,720
Speaker 1: the challenge that you have now is SEC network has

1818
01:35:55,760 --> 01:35:59,080
Speaker 1: got cord cutting issues, just like ESPN and FS one

1819
01:35:59,160 --> 01:36:03,759
Speaker 1: and NBC Sports Network and every other cable channel out there. Now,

1820
01:36:03,840 --> 01:36:07,360
Speaker 1: are you concerned at all about the cable bundle in

1821
01:36:07,400 --> 01:36:09,120
Speaker 1: a way that maybe you didn't think you would have

1822
01:36:09,160 --> 01:36:14,280
Speaker 1: had to be. I don't know. I'm attentive to the

1823
01:36:14,360 --> 01:36:18,080
Speaker 1: cable bundle, but there are still advantages that seem to

1824
01:36:18,120 --> 01:36:23,639
Speaker 1: be inherent. Um, but there's there's there's clearly some point

1825
01:36:23,640 --> 01:36:28,599
Speaker 1: out there, this tipping point, it seems, where there's so

1826
01:36:28,720 --> 01:36:33,960
Speaker 1: much either direct consumer or skinny bundle or these new

1827
01:36:34,000 --> 01:36:38,559
Speaker 1: providers and the in and out ability that it raises

1828
01:36:38,640 --> 01:36:41,840
Speaker 1: the issue I think first of connection to your fan base.

1829
01:36:42,439 --> 01:36:44,600
Speaker 1: I think even more than content, the content has to

1830
01:36:44,640 --> 01:36:49,280
Speaker 1: be great. Live events are important, but keeping our our

1831
01:36:49,360 --> 01:36:53,519
Speaker 1: conference relevant, making sure our fans are a part of

1832
01:36:53,520 --> 01:36:56,479
Speaker 1: what we do and can access our games and our events.

1833
01:36:56,800 --> 01:36:59,280
Speaker 1: I think all of that's important to kind of feed

1834
01:36:59,720 --> 01:37:03,479
Speaker 1: what we've built. And sure there are changing dynamics around

1835
01:37:04,120 --> 01:37:08,920
Speaker 1: media and television, but you know, there's a big picture

1836
01:37:09,000 --> 01:37:12,000
Speaker 1: of if people are connected to what we do and

1837
01:37:12,040 --> 01:37:16,120
Speaker 1: it's compelling and and it's in the competition is at

1838
01:37:16,120 --> 01:37:19,160
Speaker 1: a high, high level, it continues to attract people. Now,

1839
01:37:19,200 --> 01:37:23,840
Speaker 1: how that's delivered is part of the execution where we

1840
01:37:23,880 --> 01:37:27,639
Speaker 1: need great partners like we've had executing well. And you've

1841
01:37:27,640 --> 01:37:29,960
Speaker 1: got ESPN as a great partner that's lined up for

1842
01:37:30,040 --> 01:37:33,280
Speaker 1: a long time with the SEC Network, the SEC Game

1843
01:37:33,320 --> 01:37:36,479
Speaker 1: of the Week on CBS has turned into a also

1844
01:37:36,640 --> 01:37:40,320
Speaker 1: wildly popular television platform. Um, and you guys have been

1845
01:37:40,360 --> 01:37:43,280
Speaker 1: with CBS for a long time. It's I think that

1846
01:37:43,320 --> 01:37:46,680
Speaker 1: deal is up. You'll know better than me in Ish

1847
01:37:47,680 --> 01:37:50,920
Speaker 1: football season, I think, do you already now we're talking

1848
01:37:50,960 --> 01:37:52,840
Speaker 1: and I hope people are still listening to this year's

1849
01:37:52,840 --> 01:37:55,679
Speaker 1: from now, but it's twenty nineteen. Now do you look

1850
01:37:55,720 --> 01:37:59,120
Speaker 1: ahead and already start planning out what might make sense there?

1851
01:37:59,160 --> 01:38:01,479
Speaker 1: Do you think about direct a consumer on your Game

1852
01:38:01,479 --> 01:38:04,360
Speaker 1: of the Week, your SEC Championship game. Is that one

1853
01:38:04,400 --> 01:38:06,479
Speaker 1: of the things that you would explore as part of

1854
01:38:06,479 --> 01:38:10,960
Speaker 1: that process kind of looking forward, I have a long

1855
01:38:11,080 --> 01:38:16,880
Speaker 1: view of that next opportunity, so that that CBS relationship

1856
01:38:17,000 --> 01:38:20,400
Speaker 1: has been enormously important to the Southeastern Conference and can

1857
01:38:20,439 --> 01:38:24,479
Speaker 1: continue to be. We do have five more full seasons

1858
01:38:24,520 --> 01:38:31,400
Speaker 1: remaining UM and appreciate that relationship. But to your earlier question,

1859
01:38:31,640 --> 01:38:35,240
Speaker 1: I look out in the future, UH, and that's why

1860
01:38:35,320 --> 01:38:38,760
Speaker 1: we engaged a media advisor, so Chuck Gerber, who did

1861
01:38:38,800 --> 01:38:42,200
Speaker 1: great work for us in our prior negotiations and oh

1862
01:38:42,200 --> 01:38:44,599
Speaker 1: eight and the launch of the SEC network. We lost

1863
01:38:44,680 --> 01:38:48,320
Speaker 1: Chuck in November of two thousand fifteen, so we've needed,

1864
01:38:48,840 --> 01:38:52,640
Speaker 1: UH someone to fill that advisory role. I don't have

1865
01:38:52,720 --> 01:38:57,600
Speaker 1: anything imminent, but I want to be thinking again long term,

1866
01:38:57,640 --> 01:39:01,519
Speaker 1: how does the industry change? Who who was involved in

1867
01:39:01,520 --> 01:39:05,320
Speaker 1: in in negotiations right now? That understands the business and

1868
01:39:05,360 --> 01:39:09,040
Speaker 1: that's why UH. In November of last year, we announced

1869
01:39:09,040 --> 01:39:12,200
Speaker 1: a relationship with Evolution Media and c A Television to

1870
01:39:12,280 --> 01:39:15,720
Speaker 1: help us in that thinking of preparation. But that's very

1871
01:39:15,800 --> 01:39:19,120
Speaker 1: much a long view of the opportunity that Hey, it

1872
01:39:19,120 --> 01:39:21,320
Speaker 1: will be out there at some point in the next

1873
01:39:21,360 --> 01:39:23,400
Speaker 1: five years, and we want to make sure we're as

1874
01:39:23,439 --> 01:39:25,920
Speaker 1: well prepared as anyone. One of the things I'm sure

1875
01:39:25,960 --> 01:39:28,799
Speaker 1: that's impressed you about being the SEC Commissioner is suddenly,

1876
01:39:28,840 --> 01:39:32,040
Speaker 1: if you didn't already know, the number of people and

1877
01:39:32,120 --> 01:39:34,320
Speaker 1: meetings you can get in for. And I know you've met,

1878
01:39:34,360 --> 01:39:36,839
Speaker 1: for instance, with Tim Cook, who's a big Auburn supporter,

1879
01:39:37,200 --> 01:39:39,720
Speaker 1: who were some of the names and and people that

1880
01:39:39,760 --> 01:39:43,719
Speaker 1: you have met who have SEC alumni relationships who cared

1881
01:39:43,760 --> 01:39:48,719
Speaker 1: deeply about the results of you know, college conference football, basketball, baseball,

1882
01:39:48,800 --> 01:39:51,920
Speaker 1: whatever it may be. Uh that that may be surprised you,

1883
01:39:52,120 --> 01:39:54,120
Speaker 1: And uh, I imagine it's got to be a little

1884
01:39:54,120 --> 01:39:56,240
Speaker 1: bit crazy to walk in to meet with a guy

1885
01:39:56,280 --> 01:39:58,679
Speaker 1: like Tim Cook, who's been in charge of a trillion

1886
01:39:58,680 --> 01:40:01,479
Speaker 1: dollar company, and you know, he's caring about how Auburn

1887
01:40:01,560 --> 01:40:03,680
Speaker 1: football is going to go, which I think just kind

1888
01:40:03,720 --> 01:40:07,200
Speaker 1: of speaks to the fabric with which SEC football connects,

1889
01:40:07,280 --> 01:40:10,760
Speaker 1: even after people may not necessarily be that connected to

1890
01:40:10,800 --> 01:40:13,080
Speaker 1: their alma mater anymore. Right, it really is the tie

1891
01:40:13,120 --> 01:40:16,559
Speaker 1: that binds forever. Yeah, it is. And and I've I've

1892
01:40:16,640 --> 01:40:19,040
Speaker 1: met him a number of times when I had an

1893
01:40:19,040 --> 01:40:21,000
Speaker 1: opportunity for one on one. I said, do you like

1894
01:40:21,120 --> 01:40:22,680
Speaker 1: this was in the summer. I said, do you know

1895
01:40:22,880 --> 01:40:25,120
Speaker 1: that you'll be able to watch Auburn football games on

1896
01:40:25,160 --> 01:40:27,000
Speaker 1: the phone. I was like, Oh yeah, it's like he

1897
01:40:27,160 --> 01:40:31,640
Speaker 1: plans around that to make ten of it. Wasn't. It's

1898
01:40:31,720 --> 01:40:34,160
Speaker 1: a clear passion, which is great. That's part of the

1899
01:40:34,520 --> 01:40:38,719
Speaker 1: It just means more attitude. We've communicated. You know, Charlie

1900
01:40:38,840 --> 01:40:42,960
Speaker 1: Ergan who had the dish as a Tennessee alone and uh,

1901
01:40:43,280 --> 01:40:46,880
Speaker 1: just fascinating to talk to. And really I've taken time

1902
01:40:46,920 --> 01:40:49,599
Speaker 1: to meet with as many immedia leaders as I can

1903
01:40:50,520 --> 01:40:53,559
Speaker 1: UM and their schedules don't work, and even whether their

1904
01:40:53,560 --> 01:40:55,840
Speaker 1: alums or not, I'm amazed at the number who might

1905
01:40:55,880 --> 01:40:58,720
Speaker 1: not be alums, wh whose children have attended one or

1906
01:40:58,760 --> 01:41:02,600
Speaker 1: more of our universities. UM, but they're all conversant. You

1907
01:41:02,600 --> 01:41:05,560
Speaker 1: can say like what are we doing right in and

1908
01:41:06,120 --> 01:41:09,240
Speaker 1: in the SEC network? And you know everyone talks about

1909
01:41:09,360 --> 01:41:12,120
Speaker 1: SEC nation on Saturday mornings. Where you've got this flavor

1910
01:41:12,200 --> 01:41:16,640
Speaker 1: of who we are and that's the attachment UM to

1911
01:41:17,120 --> 01:41:20,240
Speaker 1: the Southeastern Conference. UM. I was sharing earlier today with

1912
01:41:20,280 --> 01:41:25,639
Speaker 1: a friend that I'll meet senators in Congressional representatives and games.

1913
01:41:26,040 --> 01:41:28,639
Speaker 1: And I've literally had conversations of Hey, if you're ever

1914
01:41:28,680 --> 01:41:30,759
Speaker 1: in d C, I'd love to have dinner. They're saying

1915
01:41:30,760 --> 01:41:33,519
Speaker 1: this to me. I'm like, yeah, you know, you're busy

1916
01:41:33,640 --> 01:41:36,120
Speaker 1: and I don't want to impose, And I said, no, no,

1917
01:41:36,200 --> 01:41:37,960
Speaker 1: I would love to have dinner with you and talk

1918
01:41:38,040 --> 01:41:41,400
Speaker 1: about your work. Um. And I think that's maybe an

1919
01:41:41,439 --> 01:41:46,400
Speaker 1: illustration of it's this uh, it's this passion that it

1920
01:41:46,560 --> 01:41:49,479
Speaker 1: is generally a very healthy passion that provides a little

1921
01:41:49,520 --> 01:41:52,640
Speaker 1: bit of diversion and attachment to home, to something that

1922
01:41:52,760 --> 01:41:56,639
Speaker 1: that means, uh, something special from a time in their

1923
01:41:56,680 --> 01:41:59,800
Speaker 1: life or from someone, uh you know, a parent who

1924
01:41:59,800 --> 01:42:02,280
Speaker 1: may be on a lum or, or just that that

1925
01:42:02,479 --> 01:42:04,920
Speaker 1: was the university and its team that was kind of

1926
01:42:04,920 --> 01:42:08,360
Speaker 1: the city on a hill to which everybody paid attention

1927
01:42:08,360 --> 01:42:11,240
Speaker 1: in their youth. So there are any number of those.

1928
01:42:11,280 --> 01:42:13,760
Speaker 1: I'm probably ill equipped to run down the list, or

1929
01:42:13,760 --> 01:42:17,400
Speaker 1: somebody made me sign a confidentiality. I'm not kidding about

1930
01:42:17,439 --> 01:42:20,400
Speaker 1: the ladder, all right. So that is impressive in and

1931
01:42:20,439 --> 01:42:23,320
Speaker 1: of itself. Also stepping up from the number two to

1932
01:42:23,479 --> 01:42:26,840
Speaker 1: number one seat, though, will put your own life into

1933
01:42:26,840 --> 01:42:29,479
Speaker 1: the public eye in a way that it was never

1934
01:42:29,760 --> 01:42:31,559
Speaker 1: when you're number two, Right when you go up to

1935
01:42:31,680 --> 01:42:34,880
Speaker 1: number one, suddenly you're the guy who James Carville has

1936
01:42:34,880 --> 01:42:38,120
Speaker 1: taken shots at on college game day, or you're the

1937
01:42:38,120 --> 01:42:41,760
Speaker 1: guy who replaces Mike Slive's name in any number of

1938
01:42:41,800 --> 01:42:45,519
Speaker 1: message boards when people are complaining about a subtle change

1939
01:42:45,560 --> 01:42:48,759
Speaker 1: that they think impacts the competitive spirit of the conference

1940
01:42:48,840 --> 01:42:52,000
Speaker 1: or or everything else. How has that felt to you

1941
01:42:52,280 --> 01:42:53,760
Speaker 1: to go from I mean, I know you had a

1942
01:42:53,800 --> 01:42:56,640
Speaker 1: public job for people who are in the industry, but

1943
01:42:56,720 --> 01:42:59,760
Speaker 1: now you have a public, public job where people know

1944
01:42:59,840 --> 01:43:02,120
Speaker 1: you name and know what you do and holds you

1945
01:43:02,160 --> 01:43:04,160
Speaker 1: accountable for so many things on a day to day

1946
01:43:04,200 --> 01:43:06,720
Speaker 1: basis that you might have been involved in before, but

1947
01:43:06,760 --> 01:43:10,280
Speaker 1: you certainly weren't considered responsible for. Yeah, you know, I

1948
01:43:10,360 --> 01:43:14,840
Speaker 1: had a conversation with Roger Goodell where we were just

1949
01:43:14,880 --> 01:43:17,920
Speaker 1: talking about ficiating, and he said, you know, everybody needs

1950
01:43:17,920 --> 01:43:22,920
Speaker 1: somebody to blame, and unfortunately that becomes us in these roles.

1951
01:43:23,240 --> 01:43:26,200
Speaker 1: And you know what I found is I'm accountable not

1952
01:43:26,320 --> 01:43:28,639
Speaker 1: so much for what I do, but for what everybody

1953
01:43:28,640 --> 01:43:32,559
Speaker 1: around me does. But somebody's gonna point the finger. And

1954
01:43:32,640 --> 01:43:38,000
Speaker 1: you're at a leadership level where you assume responsibility, and

1955
01:43:38,040 --> 01:43:40,320
Speaker 1: I don't think anyone can step into it and really

1956
01:43:40,400 --> 01:43:43,960
Speaker 1: understand the level of attention and scrutiny. UM. And there's

1957
01:43:44,000 --> 01:43:46,519
Speaker 1: good and bad to that. You know, some of the

1958
01:43:46,560 --> 01:43:49,120
Speaker 1: things that happened in social media are kind of past

1959
01:43:49,200 --> 01:43:53,439
Speaker 1: disturbing um. And you know, some of the accusations just

1960
01:43:53,479 --> 01:43:56,880
Speaker 1: have no anchor and reality. But people want to communicate

1961
01:43:56,880 --> 01:44:01,080
Speaker 1: their frustrations or perceptions in the Publick Brown, I think

1962
01:44:02,560 --> 01:44:05,840
Speaker 1: of the interaction I have has been positive, in fact,

1963
01:44:06,080 --> 01:44:08,400
Speaker 1: as in our basketball tournament this year, and I had

1964
01:44:08,439 --> 01:44:11,360
Speaker 1: a graduate of one of our universities who grabs my

1965
01:44:11,520 --> 01:44:14,479
Speaker 1: arm and says I'm from and I'm like, oh no,

1966
01:44:14,640 --> 01:44:18,080
Speaker 1: here we go, and uh, he says, I just want

1967
01:44:18,120 --> 01:44:19,640
Speaker 1: you to know that there are a lot of us

1968
01:44:19,680 --> 01:44:22,760
Speaker 1: out here who are reasonable people and respectfully the job

1969
01:44:22,920 --> 01:44:24,840
Speaker 1: that's in front of you and how you how you

1970
01:44:24,920 --> 01:44:26,720
Speaker 1: handle And I said, you know what, you have no

1971
01:44:27,080 --> 01:44:31,719
Speaker 1: idea how incredibly kind that is. Because what people don't

1972
01:44:31,760 --> 01:44:36,880
Speaker 1: see UM in these leadership roles is that we are

1973
01:44:37,560 --> 01:44:42,400
Speaker 1: human beings making informed decisions. But we're all going to

1974
01:44:42,479 --> 01:44:46,200
Speaker 1: do the best we can. And uh, maybe we don't

1975
01:44:46,280 --> 01:44:48,600
Speaker 1: make the perfect decision, but it may have been the

1976
01:44:48,640 --> 01:44:53,000
Speaker 1: best decision given the circumstances. That then creates perceptions and

1977
01:44:53,080 --> 01:44:56,439
Speaker 1: everybody has emotion and feelings around it, which is great.

1978
01:44:57,360 --> 01:45:02,200
Speaker 1: But fundamentally we're committed to to acting with integrity and

1979
01:45:02,320 --> 01:45:06,320
Speaker 1: making the best informed decisions as possible. And sometimes that

1980
01:45:06,360 --> 01:45:10,840
Speaker 1: creates accountability. Sometimes that creates headaches and hardships, but it's

1981
01:45:10,920 --> 01:45:13,560
Speaker 1: done in a way that continues to advance the conference.

1982
01:45:14,080 --> 01:45:18,880
Speaker 1: That scrutiny should exist and will always exist, and and

1983
01:45:18,960 --> 01:45:20,880
Speaker 1: part of the job is to make sure you've got

1984
01:45:20,960 --> 01:45:24,840
Speaker 1: kind of a healthy mental outlook um from which you

1985
01:45:24,920 --> 01:45:29,400
Speaker 1: can can manage those pressures and whatever commentary may accompany

1986
01:45:29,439 --> 01:45:32,519
Speaker 1: those pressures. Do you listen to sports talker radio? Do

1987
01:45:32,640 --> 01:45:35,880
Speaker 1: you read ever a message board? What is your media

1988
01:45:35,920 --> 01:45:39,080
Speaker 1: consumption habit to kind of keep a pulse on what

1989
01:45:39,640 --> 01:45:42,799
Speaker 1: your fan base, meaning, you know, the larger SEC region

1990
01:45:42,920 --> 01:45:45,200
Speaker 1: might be thinking, not necessarily about you, but about the

1991
01:45:45,240 --> 01:45:47,400
Speaker 1: conference at all. How do you stay at tune? You know,

1992
01:45:47,400 --> 01:45:49,759
Speaker 1: they talk about how you know, when you become president,

1993
01:45:49,800 --> 01:45:52,000
Speaker 1: you're in the White House bubble and it's really hard

1994
01:45:52,080 --> 01:45:54,840
Speaker 1: to figure out what the real world is like. How

1995
01:45:54,840 --> 01:45:57,840
Speaker 1: do you maintain your connection to the quote unquote real

1996
01:45:57,880 --> 01:46:02,400
Speaker 1: world that is your constituency there. I think I've been

1997
01:46:02,439 --> 01:46:05,439
Speaker 1: pretty active and I'm certainly not not hiding from anyone,

1998
01:46:05,479 --> 01:46:07,439
Speaker 1: whether it's going to games and you're going to do

1999
01:46:07,520 --> 01:46:10,200
Speaker 1: that in your own bubble. But I'll walk through a

2000
01:46:10,200 --> 01:46:12,840
Speaker 1: crowd and say hello. So I mean that's a low

2001
01:46:12,920 --> 01:46:16,520
Speaker 1: level connection where you know it's one of the adjustments

2002
01:46:16,600 --> 01:46:18,840
Speaker 1: is to walk down a street or walk through an

2003
01:46:18,880 --> 01:46:22,880
Speaker 1: airport Mutch, People's heads turn as you walk past. Because

2004
01:46:22,920 --> 01:46:26,920
Speaker 1: I spent fifty years plus of my life where nobody

2005
01:46:26,960 --> 01:46:29,400
Speaker 1: knowing who I was except a friend I might see

2006
01:46:29,439 --> 01:46:35,600
Speaker 1: in the airport. And now I'll regularly have conversations while traveling. Um,

2007
01:46:35,640 --> 01:46:38,240
Speaker 1: so that's kind of a low level piece. I'm a

2008
01:46:38,360 --> 01:46:40,920
Speaker 1: ten of every day, so I I start pretty early,

2009
01:46:41,560 --> 01:46:44,280
Speaker 1: and my media consumption is from three or four different

2010
01:46:44,280 --> 01:46:48,719
Speaker 1: clipping services around higher education in college sports to see

2011
01:46:48,760 --> 01:46:52,880
Speaker 1: what's happening. I do listen to sports radio to a

2012
01:46:52,880 --> 01:46:57,080
Speaker 1: certain extent, depending where I'm traveling to. I'll listen uh

2013
01:46:57,280 --> 01:47:01,200
Speaker 1: the ESP and you radio there's a show on called

2014
01:47:01,200 --> 01:47:03,800
Speaker 1: out kicked the coverage um that From time to time.

2015
01:47:04,080 --> 01:47:06,880
Speaker 1: I'll travel too, but you're going to cover different things,

2016
01:47:06,880 --> 01:47:11,479
Speaker 1: so you know I'm going to consume some national stuff, um,

2017
01:47:11,520 --> 01:47:14,680
Speaker 1: and then you have to put that aside too. So

2018
01:47:14,920 --> 01:47:18,840
Speaker 1: I think there's this delicate balance between understanding what what's

2019
01:47:18,880 --> 01:47:22,880
Speaker 1: on people's minds and Herberman sent and our communications area

2020
01:47:22,920 --> 01:47:26,040
Speaker 1: and his staff will keep me informed of things. I'm

2021
01:47:26,080 --> 01:47:28,320
Speaker 1: the only one of the five commissioners who actually has

2022
01:47:28,360 --> 01:47:38,200
Speaker 1: an active Twitter account, so uh not not on game days, um,

2023
01:47:38,240 --> 01:47:42,840
Speaker 1: just because it's it's it's it's a strange universe. Yeah.

2024
01:47:42,960 --> 01:47:45,160
Speaker 1: I was going to say something a little bit more pleasant,

2025
01:47:45,240 --> 01:47:49,719
Speaker 1: but you know, the language that the accusations just aren't

2026
01:47:49,720 --> 01:47:52,080
Speaker 1: anchored in reality. In fact, there was something I saw

2027
01:47:52,200 --> 01:47:55,040
Speaker 1: yesterday about you know, no penalty got called on this

2028
01:47:55,160 --> 01:47:57,960
Speaker 1: play and this is your bias, and wanted to tweet back,

2029
01:47:58,560 --> 01:48:01,280
Speaker 1: Actually there was a penalty hall on the plane and

2030
01:48:01,560 --> 01:48:04,040
Speaker 1: all the young man wasn't ejected, he was withheld from

2031
01:48:04,080 --> 01:48:07,080
Speaker 1: the next game. But if I enter that prey, you

2032
01:48:07,160 --> 01:48:10,960
Speaker 1: never get back out, and and so I'll usually just

2033
01:48:11,120 --> 01:48:14,759
Speaker 1: look and see what's there and then move on pretty quickly,

2034
01:48:14,840 --> 01:48:18,120
Speaker 1: because you know the notion that somebody with twenty six followers,

2035
01:48:18,160 --> 01:48:22,080
Speaker 1: who's you live it right, who's got anonymous name and

2036
01:48:22,280 --> 01:48:27,000
Speaker 1: is calling you gutless, her lacking courage, like I had

2037
01:48:27,040 --> 01:48:28,960
Speaker 1: that this spring. It was around a baseball week and

2038
01:48:29,040 --> 01:48:31,439
Speaker 1: I looked and it's like, you lack courage with you

2039
01:48:31,479 --> 01:48:33,080
Speaker 1: don't have any courage to do this for that And

2040
01:48:33,080 --> 01:48:35,599
Speaker 1: I'm like, wait, You've got twenty six followers and your

2041
01:48:36,280 --> 01:48:39,080
Speaker 1: your your Twitter handle is a bunch of vowels. So

2042
01:48:39,360 --> 01:48:42,840
Speaker 1: I think that's like lacking courage to accuse people publicly

2043
01:48:42,880 --> 01:48:45,599
Speaker 1: that way. Be sure to catch live editions about kick

2044
01:48:45,680 --> 01:48:48,400
Speaker 1: the Coverage with Clay Travis week days at six am

2045
01:48:48,439 --> 01:48:52,320
Speaker 1: Eastern three am Pacific. Last couple of questions here, and

2046
01:48:52,320 --> 01:48:54,160
Speaker 1: I appreciate all the time you've been listening to SEC

2047
01:48:54,240 --> 01:48:57,160
Speaker 1: Commissioner Greg sanky Uh this is the Winds and Lost

2048
01:48:57,200 --> 01:49:01,080
Speaker 1: his podcast. I'm Clay Travis. Um. You you mentioned the

2049
01:49:01,320 --> 01:49:03,960
Speaker 1: salaries that you made along the way, and for much

2050
01:49:04,000 --> 01:49:06,840
Speaker 1: of your career you're making a decent living, but it's

2051
01:49:06,840 --> 01:49:09,719
Speaker 1: not like you're making a living where you can really

2052
01:49:09,760 --> 01:49:12,240
Speaker 1: feel like, hey, I might build some wealth here. Right.

2053
01:49:12,560 --> 01:49:15,080
Speaker 1: That's changed for you in the last couple of years.

2054
01:49:15,400 --> 01:49:18,000
Speaker 1: How has that changed? And for people out there? And

2055
01:49:18,000 --> 01:49:20,360
Speaker 1: I think there's a lot of people listening who you know,

2056
01:49:20,439 --> 01:49:23,439
Speaker 1: are grinding away at their job and they don't necessarily know,

2057
01:49:23,600 --> 01:49:26,439
Speaker 1: if there's any possibility that they're ever going to make

2058
01:49:26,600 --> 01:49:29,080
Speaker 1: more money. Is it better to make more money? Do

2059
01:49:29,120 --> 01:49:31,639
Speaker 1: you feel more comfortable now to be in a position

2060
01:49:31,640 --> 01:49:34,280
Speaker 1: in a chair where you're making a decent salary or

2061
01:49:34,680 --> 01:49:36,600
Speaker 1: and that might have been an aspiration of yours, have

2062
01:49:36,680 --> 01:49:39,160
Speaker 1: you found it to be overrated? I'm curious, you know,

2063
01:49:39,200 --> 01:49:41,080
Speaker 1: because you've been grinding away at your career for a

2064
01:49:41,120 --> 01:49:44,040
Speaker 1: long time, and there's a big jump between being the

2065
01:49:44,120 --> 01:49:47,600
Speaker 1: number two guy and being a conference commissioner. Uh that

2066
01:49:47,600 --> 01:49:49,240
Speaker 1: that that? Frankly, I mean it has got to be

2067
01:49:49,320 --> 01:49:52,720
Speaker 1: somewhat life changing. Well when I when I made a

2068
01:49:52,800 --> 01:49:56,559
Speaker 1: lesser salary, I didn't have to read about it in

2069
01:49:56,720 --> 01:50:01,160
Speaker 1: the newspapers every so often. That's just a really strange experience.

2070
01:50:02,040 --> 01:50:05,320
Speaker 1: Um that that Again, there's not like a master's level

2071
01:50:05,400 --> 01:50:10,400
Speaker 1: program that prepares you for that reality. And you know, Clay,

2072
01:50:10,560 --> 01:50:13,240
Speaker 1: you have to understand that as I walk through some

2073
01:50:13,360 --> 01:50:17,160
Speaker 1: of those job decisions, you know they were savings spent,

2074
01:50:17,439 --> 01:50:22,719
Speaker 1: retirement accounts that went away or debt accumulated within reason

2075
01:50:24,880 --> 01:50:27,320
Speaker 1: that we're part of. That was part of that. Two

2076
01:50:27,400 --> 01:50:30,680
Speaker 1: daughters going to college, You've got your you have a

2077
01:50:30,680 --> 01:50:33,080
Speaker 1: normal life, right, I mean you're never making money that's

2078
01:50:33,120 --> 01:50:36,559
Speaker 1: outside of the realm of normalcy. Yeah, when our oldest

2079
01:50:36,560 --> 01:50:39,040
Speaker 1: one to college, it wasn't like this huge college fund

2080
01:50:39,160 --> 01:50:42,479
Speaker 1: is part of these decisions and moves and and we're

2081
01:50:42,520 --> 01:50:45,559
Speaker 1: all going to make decisions, and we're again make the

2082
01:50:45,680 --> 01:50:49,639
Speaker 1: best decision we can bases on as much information. But yeah,

2083
01:50:49,680 --> 01:50:52,200
Speaker 1: you get to a point where I made a healthy

2084
01:50:52,280 --> 01:50:57,519
Speaker 1: living and it transitions and commissioner's role. But I will

2085
01:50:57,560 --> 01:51:00,519
Speaker 1: go back and say that I had but when I

2086
01:51:00,560 --> 01:51:03,320
Speaker 1: spent that night in the hospital and then spent three

2087
01:51:03,439 --> 01:51:05,439
Speaker 1: or four years trying to figure out how is it

2088
01:51:05,479 --> 01:51:07,959
Speaker 1: that I'm going to live? And part of that's informed

2089
01:51:07,960 --> 01:51:11,439
Speaker 1: by faith, but a set of principles and how I

2090
01:51:11,479 --> 01:51:14,880
Speaker 1: wanted to conduct myself, and part of that is living

2091
01:51:14,880 --> 01:51:18,600
Speaker 1: within my means um so that whether I got the

2092
01:51:18,720 --> 01:51:22,120
Speaker 1: job back in two thousand fifteen or didn't, I could

2093
01:51:22,200 --> 01:51:25,160
Speaker 1: function and I had flexibility to go take the next

2094
01:51:25,200 --> 01:51:28,479
Speaker 1: opportunity that would be right for me. And so you

2095
01:51:28,840 --> 01:51:32,680
Speaker 1: have this this financial upside that comes you realize exactly

2096
01:51:32,720 --> 01:51:36,280
Speaker 1: what tax rates mean they're talked about because they were

2097
01:51:36,320 --> 01:51:40,480
Speaker 1: pretty abstract then. And then there's another set of realities

2098
01:51:40,520 --> 01:51:43,720
Speaker 1: where it's not like um, there aren't pressures that come

2099
01:51:43,720 --> 01:51:45,679
Speaker 1: with that. I once set one of our had football

2100
01:51:45,720 --> 01:51:48,800
Speaker 1: coaches offices. This is ten or fifteen years ago, and

2101
01:51:48,840 --> 01:51:50,840
Speaker 1: I remember sitting there. I was there for an hour

2102
01:51:50,920 --> 01:51:53,400
Speaker 1: is really engaging meeting, But there was the biggest bottle

2103
01:51:53,439 --> 01:51:57,639
Speaker 1: of may loox on his desk behind him, behind his desk,

2104
01:51:58,040 --> 01:52:00,840
Speaker 1: and I remember thinking, I don't remember what we talked about, really,

2105
01:52:01,160 --> 01:52:04,840
Speaker 1: but I remember thinking, wow, he's got maylocks. I wonder

2106
01:52:05,000 --> 01:52:07,320
Speaker 1: what the pressures that eat at his stomach are on

2107
01:52:07,360 --> 01:52:09,880
Speaker 1: a day to day basis, because mine are, Hey, if

2108
01:52:09,920 --> 01:52:11,840
Speaker 1: I lose my job, can I pay my mortgage? I'm

2109
01:52:11,840 --> 01:52:14,720
Speaker 1: gonna pay for college? What about when my kids get married? Laugh?

2110
01:52:14,840 --> 01:52:18,240
Speaker 1: Enough in retirement. He's got none of that because of

2111
01:52:18,280 --> 01:52:20,920
Speaker 1: what he makes. And so there's this whole other set

2112
01:52:20,920 --> 01:52:24,960
Speaker 1: of pressures that that exists for that individual. Well, that's

2113
01:52:24,960 --> 01:52:29,360
Speaker 1: really true, you know, the the notion I kidded and

2114
01:52:29,400 --> 01:52:33,559
Speaker 1: said to someone the next time I asked about my salary,

2115
01:52:33,600 --> 01:52:35,719
Speaker 1: I say, when you look at it, like in total

2116
01:52:35,840 --> 01:52:38,080
Speaker 1: on an annual basis at the law, but when you

2117
01:52:38,120 --> 01:52:41,000
Speaker 1: consider what it is per death threat, it's not that much.

2118
01:52:43,400 --> 01:52:48,880
Speaker 1: And that's you give your life to this job, and

2119
01:52:49,280 --> 01:52:53,240
Speaker 1: that is a very different existence than what I lived

2120
01:52:53,280 --> 01:52:56,759
Speaker 1: for thirty years. Nothing wrong with it. I was prepared

2121
01:52:56,800 --> 01:53:00,880
Speaker 1: as prepared as I could be. But that move from

2122
01:53:00,920 --> 01:53:04,479
Speaker 1: the second chair to the lead chair of that gap

2123
01:53:05,360 --> 01:53:09,960
Speaker 1: is really how your life is then dictated by by

2124
01:53:10,000 --> 01:53:13,559
Speaker 1: the role. Last question, In fact, fact, I'll add when

2125
01:53:13,560 --> 01:53:15,800
Speaker 1: Mike stepped down, somebody said what are you looking forward to?

2126
01:53:15,920 --> 01:53:19,160
Speaker 1: And he said, not having my schedule dictated to me,

2127
01:53:19,960 --> 01:53:24,200
Speaker 1: not for me, but to me, And that's part of

2128
01:53:24,200 --> 01:53:28,519
Speaker 1: the reality that that probably informs the compensation. What do you?

2129
01:53:28,640 --> 01:53:30,840
Speaker 1: Last question for you? What do you do? You talked

2130
01:53:30,840 --> 01:53:33,760
Speaker 1: about being thirty two and having that moment where you're

2131
01:53:33,800 --> 01:53:36,600
Speaker 1: working all the time, caffeine four and five hours of

2132
01:53:36,680 --> 01:53:39,559
Speaker 1: sleep at night. What do you do now to try

2133
01:53:39,600 --> 01:53:42,599
Speaker 1: to get away and allow your mind to be somewhat clear?

2134
01:53:42,640 --> 01:53:45,800
Speaker 1: Because your decisions are a lot more consequential now than

2135
01:53:45,840 --> 01:53:48,639
Speaker 1: they were when you were thirty two and suddenly had

2136
01:53:48,680 --> 01:53:51,439
Speaker 1: that moment where you're standing at the urinal and everything

2137
01:53:51,479 --> 01:53:54,400
Speaker 1: comes crashing down around you. How do you manage that

2138
01:53:54,560 --> 01:53:56,960
Speaker 1: stress that mailocks moment as you just put it with

2139
01:53:57,000 --> 01:53:59,840
Speaker 1: that coach now and get away and be able to

2140
01:54:00,200 --> 01:54:02,800
Speaker 1: or your mind and make good decisions. That aren't just

2141
01:54:02,920 --> 01:54:05,640
Speaker 1: good for today or tomorrow, but we'll look good in

2142
01:54:05,680 --> 01:54:08,080
Speaker 1: five to ten years as the hope. Yeah. Well, the

2143
01:54:08,160 --> 01:54:10,479
Speaker 1: cool thing is my blood pressure, because I had to

2144
01:54:10,560 --> 01:54:13,360
Speaker 1: check yesterday was one over sixty eight, which I think

2145
01:54:13,400 --> 01:54:17,120
Speaker 1: is a pretty good accomplishment after four years and this job,

2146
01:54:17,240 --> 01:54:20,400
Speaker 1: and with the learning from that that experience of the

2147
01:54:20,479 --> 01:54:24,080
Speaker 1: night in the hospital back in was with two things.

2148
01:54:24,160 --> 01:54:27,240
Speaker 1: On a daily basis, I needed to have a rhythm,

2149
01:54:27,320 --> 01:54:30,000
Speaker 1: and this is where I'm working with. Mike'slive helped me immentally,

2150
01:54:30,000 --> 01:54:31,840
Speaker 1: as he was a morning person and I was not

2151
01:54:32,040 --> 01:54:34,840
Speaker 1: an early morning person. And the only part of my

2152
01:54:34,920 --> 01:54:37,000
Speaker 1: day I control is early morning. So I get up

2153
01:54:37,000 --> 01:54:39,600
Speaker 1: and I exercise right away, and then I have about

2154
01:54:39,640 --> 01:54:42,520
Speaker 1: an hour for some time for myself and I usually

2155
01:54:42,520 --> 01:54:45,280
Speaker 1: go to a coffee shop and I'll read, I might

2156
01:54:45,320 --> 01:54:48,600
Speaker 1: do some work, I might do some some reading about

2157
01:54:48,640 --> 01:54:51,880
Speaker 1: faith and life, uh at some time of reflection. But

2158
01:54:52,080 --> 01:54:55,760
Speaker 1: that's an hour of my time and that just puts

2159
01:54:55,760 --> 01:54:58,120
Speaker 1: me in such a healthy frame of mind, even with

2160
01:54:58,200 --> 01:55:01,640
Speaker 1: the pressures around me. And that's usually from six thirty

2161
01:55:01,680 --> 01:55:03,560
Speaker 1: to seven thirty and them and in the office, and

2162
01:55:03,560 --> 01:55:06,520
Speaker 1: then the day just goes um and it will be

2163
01:55:06,600 --> 01:55:10,480
Speaker 1: six six thirty seven o'clock before you know, I realized

2164
01:55:10,720 --> 01:55:13,320
Speaker 1: what day it is much what like what time it is.

2165
01:55:14,040 --> 01:55:16,120
Speaker 1: And so the first thing I've learned is I have

2166
01:55:16,200 --> 01:55:19,320
Speaker 1: to control that morning time and be pretty disciplined about

2167
01:55:19,360 --> 01:55:24,320
Speaker 1: it whenever I'm home and keep that routine. Um. And

2168
01:55:24,360 --> 01:55:27,680
Speaker 1: then I used some time uh in the you know,

2169
01:55:27,720 --> 01:55:30,040
Speaker 1: our kids are grown, so it's Kathy and I and

2170
01:55:30,440 --> 01:55:32,600
Speaker 1: you know, to talk and try to have dinner at

2171
01:55:32,600 --> 01:55:35,520
Speaker 1: home and have some part of regular book end. But

2172
01:55:35,600 --> 01:55:38,240
Speaker 1: then every couple of months, I need to step away

2173
01:55:38,640 --> 01:55:41,600
Speaker 1: and I need to make that time. Now it's impossible

2174
01:55:41,640 --> 01:55:44,080
Speaker 1: for me to do in the fall, so I've I've

2175
01:55:44,080 --> 01:55:46,760
Speaker 1: had to adjust. So like the week before football season

2176
01:55:46,760 --> 01:55:49,160
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna be away from the office. I'll be

2177
01:55:49,200 --> 01:55:51,640
Speaker 1: on the phone talking, but it will give me these

2178
01:55:51,680 --> 01:55:55,040
Speaker 1: moments to decompress and think and prepare for fourteen really

2179
01:55:55,080 --> 01:55:58,080
Speaker 1: intense weeks of football season. And on the back end,

2180
01:55:58,160 --> 01:56:01,840
Speaker 1: I do the same. I'll grab four or five days. Uh.

2181
01:56:02,440 --> 01:56:04,960
Speaker 1: We've we've had a rental house that we've used in

2182
01:56:05,320 --> 01:56:08,040
Speaker 1: upstate New York where we grew up. Um, and so

2183
01:56:08,120 --> 01:56:10,560
Speaker 1: we'll go up there actually for the next couple of weeks.

2184
01:56:10,640 --> 01:56:13,240
Speaker 1: Around July four to do a lot, and I've had

2185
01:56:13,280 --> 01:56:17,280
Speaker 1: to be more intentional about just blocking time. And my

2186
01:56:17,400 --> 01:56:21,800
Speaker 1: earlier comment about my schedule is dictated to me. Hey,

2187
01:56:21,960 --> 01:56:23,720
Speaker 1: there there are things where I've said, Okay, I'm gonna

2188
01:56:23,720 --> 01:56:26,560
Speaker 1: get away for three or four days to just think

2189
01:56:26,680 --> 01:56:30,240
Speaker 1: through things. Not not like vacation where I'm riding roller

2190
01:56:30,280 --> 01:56:32,800
Speaker 1: coasters and things, but I'm gonna go away so I

2191
01:56:32,800 --> 01:56:36,160
Speaker 1: can think through issues in a different setting. And then

2192
01:56:36,160 --> 01:56:38,480
Speaker 1: it just evaporates because something comes up and I have

2193
01:56:38,600 --> 01:56:41,000
Speaker 1: to be here or there. So that is part of

2194
01:56:41,040 --> 01:56:45,680
Speaker 1: the challenge of the role. But my earlier experience has

2195
01:56:45,760 --> 01:56:49,400
Speaker 1: helped me think through and try to prepare for that time,

2196
01:56:49,400 --> 01:56:51,879
Speaker 1: whether it's on a daily basis or on this every

2197
01:56:52,120 --> 01:56:54,560
Speaker 1: couple of months like where I step away for a day,

2198
01:56:55,120 --> 01:56:57,800
Speaker 1: try to think, get get my get my mind right

2199
01:56:57,840 --> 01:57:01,080
Speaker 1: with ball as they say, and get into a planning

2200
01:57:01,120 --> 01:57:04,080
Speaker 1: and preparation process. I know I said last question, but

2201
01:57:04,120 --> 01:57:07,000
Speaker 1: this one is is last question. You're from New York.

2202
01:57:07,560 --> 01:57:10,840
Speaker 1: Does not having an SEC degree, which Mike Slive also

2203
01:57:10,960 --> 01:57:13,760
Speaker 1: didn't have, is that a free requisite now to be

2204
01:57:13,800 --> 01:57:16,320
Speaker 1: the Commissioner of the SEC So people don't look at

2205
01:57:16,320 --> 01:57:18,080
Speaker 1: you and assume that you're going to be biased in

2206
01:57:18,120 --> 01:57:20,760
Speaker 1: one direction or another, or do you think that's just

2207
01:57:21,160 --> 01:57:23,800
Speaker 1: happenstance that both of you guys have kind of come

2208
01:57:24,200 --> 01:57:27,000
Speaker 1: from an area, in an arena where you didn't have

2209
01:57:27,120 --> 01:57:31,000
Speaker 1: a direct connection from birth to an SEC school. We

2210
01:57:31,360 --> 01:57:34,440
Speaker 1: have forty members of our staff. I think twenty of

2211
01:57:34,480 --> 01:57:37,520
Speaker 1: them have SEC or maybe more degrees, and so I

2212
01:57:37,560 --> 01:57:41,360
Speaker 1: think I have every confidence people can do jobs um

2213
01:57:41,400 --> 01:57:45,960
Speaker 1: in a neutral way despite their their degree. However, I'll

2214
01:57:46,000 --> 01:57:49,400
Speaker 1: answer it with the first time I met Steve Spurrier, Um,

2215
01:57:49,480 --> 01:57:51,680
Speaker 1: it's just he and I and a one on one situation.

2216
01:57:51,920 --> 01:57:53,680
Speaker 1: He didn't know me. He said, Hey, where do you

2217
01:57:53,720 --> 01:57:56,080
Speaker 1: go to college? And I said, well, I got my

2218
01:57:56,160 --> 01:57:59,640
Speaker 1: undergraduate degree from a state University of New York, Courtland

2219
01:57:59,720 --> 01:58:03,200
Speaker 1: Stay and my masters at Schyracuses of that, that's who

2220
01:58:03,200 --> 01:58:04,360
Speaker 1: we need is a bunch of people are on that

2221
01:58:04,400 --> 01:58:07,040
Speaker 1: office don't care who wins or who loses. So at

2222
01:58:07,120 --> 01:58:10,480
Speaker 1: least from the Steve Spurrier definition, Um, there was an

2223
01:58:10,520 --> 01:58:15,840
Speaker 1: asset with not having an SEC university affiliation. That's a

2224
01:58:15,840 --> 01:58:18,000
Speaker 1: perfect ending with a Steve Spurrier quote. And as Steve

2225
01:58:18,000 --> 01:58:20,320
Speaker 1: Spurri your accident, Greg Sanky, you've hung out with us

2226
01:58:20,320 --> 01:58:22,360
Speaker 1: here for a long time. You can find Greg Sanky

2227
01:58:22,440 --> 01:58:24,880
Speaker 1: on Twitter at Greg Sanky. Let him know what you

2228
01:58:24,920 --> 01:58:27,320
Speaker 1: think about this interview. He may or may not see it.

2229
01:58:27,400 --> 01:58:30,120
Speaker 1: Whatever you do, don't insult him, or if you do,

2230
01:58:30,280 --> 01:58:32,280
Speaker 1: claim that you're a fine bomb listener, not a Clay

2231
01:58:32,280 --> 01:58:35,360
Speaker 1: Travis listener. Uh and uh. I appreciate all of you

2232
01:58:35,400 --> 01:58:37,360
Speaker 1: for listening to Wins and Losses. Thanks again, man, this

2233
01:58:37,400 --> 01:58:39,000
Speaker 1: has been outstanding. I think people are really going to

2234
01:58:39,080 --> 01:58:42,760
Speaker 1: enjoy it. Thank you again, Greg Sanky at Greg Sanky

2235
01:58:42,800 --> 01:58:45,200
Speaker 1: on Twitter. This has been Wins and Losses with Clay Travis.

2236
01:58:45,200 --> 01:58:47,400
Speaker 1: Hope you enjoyed this one. Hope you enjoyed Jason Whitlock,

2237
01:58:47,720 --> 01:58:50,720
Speaker 1: and hope you enjoy Shannon Terry. We're gonna have a

2238
01:58:50,720 --> 01:58:53,480
Speaker 1: lot of fun conversations. Go subscribe if you haven't already.

2239
01:58:53,480 --> 01:58:56,120
Speaker 1: I'm Clay Travis and this has been Wins and Losses.