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Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome

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Speaker 1: back to the show Ridiculous Historians. As I always like

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Speaker 1: to say, thanks for tuning in. This is part two

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Speaker 1: of what we're calling Angry Dight in the English Sweats.

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Speaker 1: Unfortunately not a band yet, but we have a lot

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Speaker 1: of musicians in the audience. Please tune into part one

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Speaker 1: so you get the full journey. Here we are investigating

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Speaker 1: a real life, actual facts mystery, as our palal Law

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Speaker 1: and Vogel bomb over its savor would say, and us,

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Speaker 1: we can only do this with the help of our superproducer,

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Speaker 1: Casey Pegrum, So why don't we join the show already

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Speaker 1: in progress. Henry the Eighth has always been an interesting

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Speaker 1: character to me. Um. I think maybe for selfish reasons

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Speaker 1: as a kid, because I picked up on the name

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Speaker 1: Boland even though it's spelled differently, and like, oh I

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Speaker 1: am Boleyn. Yeah, Um, because kids are selfish, I said it.

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Speaker 1: But here's something a lot of people might not know

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Speaker 1: about Henry the Eighth. He probably did not survive the

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Speaker 1: sweating sickness by sheer luck or by the will of

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Speaker 1: the divine. Uh. He was the equivalent of a Howard

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Speaker 1: Hughes type. He was very wealthy. He was also a committed,

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Speaker 1: uh fervent hypochondriac. I like the way that History Extra

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Speaker 1: describes him as one of the greatest hypochondriacs to ever

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Speaker 1: sit on the English throne. He was examined daily. Imagine

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Speaker 1: having a physical every single day of your life. He

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Speaker 1: was subjected to a physical at his own requests pretty

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Speaker 1: much every single day. Uh. He had a medicine cabinet

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Speaker 1: filled with potions. UH. Any time he had an errand cough,

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Speaker 1: or he had like a sore throat, or maybe somebody

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Speaker 1: told him his excrement looked weird. That was a big

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Speaker 1: tool of medical uh investigation. At the day, he would

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Speaker 1: freak out, he would lose his mind. So when he

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Speaker 1: heard about the outbreak of the sweats in he closed

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Speaker 1: down the court. He shut it down the way the

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Speaker 1: responsible country shut down activities during the pandemic today. Uh.

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Speaker 1: He high tailed it. He went from one safe house

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Speaker 1: to the next. He quarantined away from his mistress and

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Speaker 1: Boleyn no relation that I'm aware of, and a lot

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Speaker 1: of his court members followed suit. They high tailed it

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Speaker 1: off to unentree estates, ancestral homes and so on, similar

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Speaker 1: to the activity and maybe the Crazy Party, similar to

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Speaker 1: the activities of the aristocrats in Edgar Allan Poe's Mask

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Speaker 1: of the Red Death. Oh, Ben, I'm really glad you

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Speaker 1: mentioned that. I think it's a really great parallel Mask

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Speaker 1: of the Red Death. The idea that you can't escape

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Speaker 1: it just because you're rich, like it's it's still coming

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Speaker 1: for you, and that's a lot of kind of what

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Speaker 1: we're seeing, you know right now. Um, very very good point. Then,

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Speaker 1: thank you, know, I mean, thank you Edgar Allan Poe.

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Speaker 1: I think he made that point. He also wrote a

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Speaker 1: super creepy story that may have been an episode of

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Speaker 1: precognition or enormous coincidence. You've probably heard of it. Arthur

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Speaker 1: Gordon Pym h his tail for a different day. But

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Speaker 1: we're getting closer to Halloween, so I'm just gonna get

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Speaker 1: increasingly creeping off the rails. Anyway, points to Henry the

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Speaker 1: Eighth Terrible Person. But he understood the value of self

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Speaker 1: isolation or quarantine. Again, self isolation is just kind of

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Speaker 1: the less scary word for warrantine. It's what we're all

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Speaker 1: doing now. And Nol we found that he learned and

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Speaker 1: BAlN had contracted the dreaded sweats. And even though he

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Speaker 1: had been, you know, telling her how over the moon

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Speaker 1: he was with her and now how much he loved her,

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Speaker 1: with a love that was beyond this mortal coil, he

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Speaker 1: didn't go see her. He didn't even send his best

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Speaker 1: doctor to help her. He kept that person for himself.

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Speaker 1: And he sent his second best doctor with a with

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Speaker 1: a love letter, kind of like how William Shakespeare sent

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Speaker 1: his wife his second best bed, second best bed. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and his will oh is that that's that's sort of

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Speaker 1: a bit of a bit of a slap in the

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Speaker 1: face't Yeah, Well, it's a slap on the springs at least. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he gave as Shakespeare gave his wife Ann Hathaway his

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Speaker 1: second best bed. And Willie Shakes, I like to call

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Speaker 1: him Willie Shakes a big shake in his defense. At

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Speaker 1: the time, people tended to give their best stuff to

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Speaker 1: their kids and then their second best stuff to their spouse.

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Speaker 1: That's fair. Remember that bad System of a Down, you

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Speaker 1: guys do? Oh? Yeah, that guy's got an amazing voice,

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Speaker 1: really great range, but he always there's always a lyric

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Speaker 1: that he had on the first System of a Down

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Speaker 1: record where he says shake your spear at Shakespeare. I thought,

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Speaker 1: how has no one else thought of that? It's so

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Speaker 1: stupid and on the nose, but just really kind of

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Speaker 1: cute and clever. Uh. But here's the thing, we still

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Speaker 1: don't really know where the where where it came from,

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Speaker 1: the sweating sickness, and where it went. Uh. There's been

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Speaker 1: tons of different theories and hypotheses over the years about

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Speaker 1: what the deal was with sweating sickness. Um. Some thought

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Speaker 1: that it was just like a more extreme kind of flu.

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Speaker 1: Others thought that it was caused by anthrax. Okay, that's

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Speaker 1: a lot of unpacked there. I didn't even know anthrax

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Speaker 1: was a thing back then. And then a lot of

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Speaker 1: people thought it was like some form of relapse of

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Speaker 1: people that had been affected by a previous kind of fever.

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Speaker 1: And one of the most popular theories was that it

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Speaker 1: was something called Hanta virus pulmonary syndrome um that, much

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Speaker 1: like the bubonic plague, was spread by a specific types

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Speaker 1: of rats. Yeah. Yeah, so we're gonna go a little

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Speaker 1: bit more recent than we usually do. As you know,

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Speaker 1: one of our only rules and ridiculous history is we

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Speaker 1: consider history stuff that happened before, which still sounds like

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Speaker 1: I don't. I think that's a hilarious rule for us

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Speaker 1: to make because we made that rule while we were

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Speaker 1: breaking it in an episode anyway, So this is why

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Speaker 1: isn't that within our isn't that within our range? Though

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Speaker 1: I thought we were ninety four? I think it was.

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Speaker 1: It was the one about the the ape in Johannesburg. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: during during apartheid, we were using apartheid as our kind

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Speaker 1: of Okay, this is now what constitutes history. But saying

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Speaker 1: that now, living in the time that we're living in,

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Speaker 1: I think you might need to throw all that out

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Speaker 1: the wind. So yeah, and also a show like we

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Speaker 1: did that a year ago, so maybe the boundary just

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Speaker 1: ticks up a year with us. Anyway, Look, this is

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Speaker 1: not a show about math. In there was an outbreak

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Speaker 1: of HPS or a hant of virus pulmonary syndrome, and

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Speaker 1: it struck the vulnerable uh population of the Navajo people

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Speaker 1: in New Mexico. This is today known as the Four

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Speaker 1: Corners outbreak, named after the region which occurred. And this

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Speaker 1: outbreak had a lot of resemblance to the sweating sickness

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Speaker 1: of English history, and that's what prompted investigators to look

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Speaker 1: back and say, hey, maybe what they called the sweating

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Speaker 1: sickness in England at the time was simply HPS or

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Speaker 1: hanta virus. And even to this day, there's no cure

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Speaker 1: for that thing. Uh, there's no vaccine that'll slow it

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Speaker 1: down or stop it. The CDC says to avoid rodent infestations, um,

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Speaker 1: which was really really, really really difficult to do back

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Speaker 1: then because of the stinkiness of it all and the

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Speaker 1: you know, lack of like any kind of organized sanitation

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Speaker 1: that we have today. Uh as imperfect as it, maybe

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Speaker 1: it's a hell of a lot better than it was

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Speaker 1: back then. Um garbage piled on the streets and whatnot.

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Speaker 1: So we don't really know the cause of the sweating sickness,

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Speaker 1: but we definitely know that it left its mark on

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Speaker 1: the zeitgeist and in history because William Shakespeare at Henry

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Speaker 1: the Fourth the second Part in sixteen hundred, this is

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Speaker 1: a half century after the last outbreak of the English sweats,

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Speaker 1: and he had Falstaff, who was one of his most

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Speaker 1: famous characters overall, die of quote a sweat. He died

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Speaker 1: of a sweat. And you know, there's a great article

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Speaker 1: on history dot com. One of our favorite site. Uh,

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Speaker 1: that sort of questions like what was he talking about

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Speaker 1: like an STD or was it a pointed reference to

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Speaker 1: that sweating sickness? Uh? And that's actually a debate as

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Speaker 1: well as many things in Shakespeare's writing can be as

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Speaker 1: to even the ownership of some of the writing, whether

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Speaker 1: it was him or one of his What was it,

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Speaker 1: Mark Marley? Was that guy's name Francis Bacon? Uh? Marlowe

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Speaker 1: marlow excuse me? Yeah? Yeah. But then on the other side,

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Speaker 1: you will also hear some people who are not in

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Speaker 1: the mainstream, by the way, argue that Shakespeare wrote part

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Speaker 1: of a version of the Bible. It's just you get

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Speaker 1: past a certain threshold of fame, like William Shakespeare, La Bush,

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Speaker 1: and people just make up all kinds of stories about you.

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Speaker 1: Have you heard the rumor that he wrote Jurassic Park,

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Speaker 1: Because that's that's a real noodle scratchy right there. Well,

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Speaker 1: you know, I would challenge I would challenge people who

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Speaker 1: disagree with that theory. It's not a rumor, it's a theory.

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Speaker 1: I we challenge of people who disagree with that not

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Speaker 1: to just base your opinions off your preconceptions man or

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Speaker 1: off off the film. Read the script, look at what's

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Speaker 1: in the text and on the page, and then come

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Speaker 1: back and get off your high horse and tell us

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Speaker 1: about Jurassic Park. Sorry, I'm heated up. I have a

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Speaker 1: tech X talk about this. Yeah, you're you're getting a

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Speaker 1: little bit of a sweat going on there, you really

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Speaker 1: are you? Okay? Oh gosh? Okay? Well, um, yes, hopefully

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Speaker 1: because we are armed with modern medicine. Uh, but just

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Speaker 1: in case, maybe maybe we can hit the road today.

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Speaker 1: Noel and Casey and I'll go for a quick lie

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Speaker 1: down here. Okay. Normally this is where we would, uh

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Speaker 1: we would pay our respects in our thank you's, and

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Speaker 1: we would we would call it a day. But uh,

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Speaker 1: we're not gonna do a lie down because we talked

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Speaker 1: a little bit off off the air here, and the

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Speaker 1: three of us agree that there are more interesting things

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Speaker 1: to follow up here. So what are you saying? Well,

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Speaker 1: you wanna you wanna cavalcade? Maybe like the top two

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Speaker 1: or three that really stuck with us. We didn't know

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Speaker 1: where to put them in the show. But we feel like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, we feel like we should mention them.

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Speaker 1: Oh they're worthy to be sure. Um. We talked about

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Speaker 1: the seeming randomness and the like, I don't think we've

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Speaker 1: ever come across like why the rich, you know there

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Speaker 1: there wasn't notion. One report was that it affected fair

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Speaker 1: haired people more. Yeah, you know, the science was just

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Speaker 1: so imprecise back then, and then the thing vanished, so

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Speaker 1: it's not like there's anything left for you know, modern

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Speaker 1: day epidemiologists to study. So we really are just kind

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Speaker 1: of like going by the historical record here and you know,

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Speaker 1: making some kind of leaps of faith and judgment. Um.

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Speaker 1: But another random element of it was that it occurred

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Speaker 1: UH in the summer quite randomly, and the and there's

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Speaker 1: an article on History today dot com that indicates that

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Speaker 1: this might have had to do with climate change. Yes,

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Speaker 1: the climate has been changing low these many years. The

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Speaker 1: sweats began at the beginning of a three hundred year

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Speaker 1: UH cycle of cooling trends in Europe. Um, and that

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Speaker 1: was triggered by a series of eruptions in Indonesia, volcanic

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Speaker 1: eruptions in Indonesia. So that could have been part of

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Speaker 1: like almost like an El Nino type thing that we

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Speaker 1: might see today. Um. History does such a great job

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Speaker 1: of going through this and inciting Paul Himen Dr Paul Hyman,

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Speaker 1: who's a medical researcher at Queen Astrid Military Hospital in

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Speaker 1: Brussels and Ben do you do you know he tell

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Speaker 1: us a little bit about what he found. Absolutely not alright, No,

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Speaker 1: here's what he said. So he did a great job

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Speaker 1: tracing this since the outbreaks may have followed years when

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Speaker 1: crops were damaged by floods. Remember one pattern that contemporaneous

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Speaker 1: forces found during the waves of sweating sickness epidemics was

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Speaker 1: that they seem to correlate right with floods and lots

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Speaker 1: of rainfall, and so rodent numbers, according to Dr Paul Hayman,

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Speaker 1: increased during the summer, and they spike in years when

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Speaker 1: trees are particularly productive. So this doctor says, this stuff

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Speaker 1: could have swung the needle with nobody in Europe realizing

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Speaker 1: that this series of volcanic eruptions a half a world

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Speaker 1: away ultimately led to erratic activities in the rodent population

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Speaker 1: which ultimately spread HPS hantavirus pulmonary syndrome. And that was

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Speaker 1: the true genesis of sweating sickness. And to be completely fair,

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Speaker 1: you know, we can't blame the medical authorities at the time.

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Speaker 1: How were they to know that's something that occurred so

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Speaker 1: far away, so long ago in Indonesia could have resulted

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Speaker 1: in the death of so many people. They just didn't

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Speaker 1: have the information. However, there's another thing here for our mysteries.

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Speaker 1: We said, it's you know, predominantly in English disease. That's

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Speaker 1: proven unfortunately, but Germany did use information to battle this

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Speaker 1: these waves of infection. Sorry, there's a weird fruit fly

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Speaker 1: that's just terrorizing me right now in my studio and

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Speaker 1: I keep trying to grab him in my hand like

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Speaker 1: Mr Miyagi, but he seems to have eluded my grasp

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Speaker 1: so far. But yeah, it's true. The Germans were really good,

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Speaker 1: as we know, at manipulating information and misinformation and propaganda.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, in Hamburg in Germany, UM where they had

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Speaker 1: over a thousand deaths in one single month, UM three

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Speaker 1: thousand people died in Danzig, my favorite German state, my

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Speaker 1: favorite uh short, aggressive horror movie, obsessed, rock star, dirty

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Speaker 1: black summer Man. I hope you're doing okay, Danzi Wholloa.

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Speaker 1: I always think I think Mother is so much like

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Speaker 1: Rebel Yell by Billy Idol. Have you ever thought about that?

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Speaker 1: They're very they have a similar vibe the rebel yell mollow.

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Speaker 1: That's all I got. Um, But yeah, Danzig, uh, and

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Speaker 1: then there was also one again in lubec Um and

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Speaker 1: some other cities as well, when it made it along

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Speaker 1: the Baltic coast into Denmark and Scandinavian then into Russia. UM.

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Speaker 1: A gentleman named John L. Flood talks about how very

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Speaker 1: differently the German government and the English government handled these outbreaks. Um.

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Speaker 1: You know, the Germans are kind of known for possibly

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Speaker 1: being a little bit tight with information or you know,

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Speaker 1: a little bit clandestine. But in this case, they did

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Speaker 1: a really good job of disseminating information about the disease.

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Speaker 1: They warned people, Um, they you know, explained about what

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Speaker 1: the communicability of it all was and what to look

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Speaker 1: for and symptoms, etcetera. And they did this through printing

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Speaker 1: and they disseminated like pamphlets and such throughout this epidemic.

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Speaker 1: And England just didn't really do that. They didn't do

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Speaker 1: a very good job of informing the public, and so

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Speaker 1: it probably ballooned out of control. They're a bit more Yeah,

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Speaker 1: fully agreed, knowledge is power. Knowing is half the battle. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Casey helped me out with a cheesy sound cue the

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Speaker 1: more you know, but not not a sound que will

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Speaker 1: get sued for. Please be careful. Is anything with a

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Speaker 1: star where you yeah, wait, wait, oh, what are you

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Speaker 1: talking about? Don't sue us, nobody, nobody call our legal department.

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Speaker 1: We also know that. Sadly, I know I say this

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Speaker 1: a lot, but people hundreds of years ago we're the

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Speaker 1: same as people in the modern day. We just have

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Speaker 1: more information because we stand on the shoulders of giants

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Speaker 1: who came before us. Sadly, this means when we say

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Speaker 1: people are the same, we mean the bad stuff too.

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Speaker 1: Medieval doctors were, you know, composed of a lot of

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Speaker 1: different factions. There are very sincere, genuine people doing the

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Speaker 1: best they could to save lives. There were also some quacks.

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Speaker 1: There were also some opportunists. In short, a lot of

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Speaker 1: doctors made bank off this enormous tragedy because people, you know,

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Speaker 1: people didn't know how this disease infected folks. They didn't

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Speaker 1: know how it would strike you. Doctors did try to

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Speaker 1: find out what was happening, and one guy in particular,

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Speaker 1: named John Kay's looked around and said, you know what

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Speaker 1: this disease is Church, Sure, it's terrible it's terrible, but

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Speaker 1: it's also an opportunity because who was it most likely

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Speaker 1: to infect the wealthy and they could become my patients.

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Speaker 1: And then he did like a little money dance, I

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Speaker 1: guess for the time. I don't know what a medieval

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Speaker 1: money dance looks like, sort of like a jig, I

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Speaker 1: think maybe, or like one of those fancy ballroom dances

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Speaker 1: you know, where you where you hold your hands up

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Speaker 1: and make a bridge, you know, I I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I like to picture him like maybe dabbing or maybe

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Speaker 1: doing Oh my god, how cool would it be if

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Speaker 1: he was doing a moonwalk dressed as a plague doctor.

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Speaker 1: That probably didn't happen. You know. If you've got a

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Speaker 1: medieval getting money dance, feel free to record a short

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Speaker 1: video posted on any of our social media's. But but

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Speaker 1: he was onto something right man, because he's right like

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Speaker 1: the demographic is predominantly uh composed of people who can

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Speaker 1: pay a doctor. Pretty well, that's right. He gave himself

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Speaker 1: um he changed his name to Johannes Caius, and he

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Speaker 1: began to uh do his business with some very well

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Speaker 1: to do Englishmen who were also a paranoid, much like

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Speaker 1: they're there King Henry the Eighth, who, as we mentioned

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Speaker 1: earlier in the episode, uh was giving himself checked out,

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Speaker 1: you know, from stem to stern and was utterly hypochondriact

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Speaker 1: and totally paranoid about this thing. Um So, Caius thought

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Speaker 1: that he could really cash in on the sweating sickness,

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Speaker 1: and he wrote about this from his own mouth, from

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Speaker 1: his own brain to his own pen. And two he

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Speaker 1: published a book or a book uh called the Wedding

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Speaker 1: Sickness and the I love the subtitle a book or

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Speaker 1: counsile against the disease commonly called the sweaty or the

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Speaker 1: sweaty ng siekness. Love it, love it, Uh yeah, and

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Speaker 1: uh now it's considered a classic. Actually um uh it's

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Speaker 1: it's a series of medical observations of these symptoms, ideas

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Speaker 1: about how to prevent it, and uh, you know, ideas

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Speaker 1: about a cure. But we never got a cure, did

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Speaker 1: We've been I didn't think we actually think no, no,

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Speaker 1: and we and we do. We have guesses about what

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Speaker 1: modern disease it might be, but we don't know. We

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Speaker 1: don't no, we just know that some experts are convinced,

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Speaker 1: not all of them. Kaius at this time is warning

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Speaker 1: people against one of my my favorite uh medical maladies

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Speaker 1: of the era, which is evil missed my asthma. Uh.

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Speaker 1: He also said, exercise eyes frequently. That's a bummer, but

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Speaker 1: it's already always good advice. And he said, hey, hey,

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Speaker 1: you jokers, your clowns, stop eating all that rotten fruit.

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Speaker 1: These people are just eating bad fruit. They're running head

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Speaker 1: on into evil missed and they're not exercising enough. The

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Speaker 1: rotten fruit thing, though, is interesting because being able to

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Speaker 1: afford fruit would have also been the domain of the

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Speaker 1: upper class. It's very true. That's why you see so

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Speaker 1: many fancy still lives of fruit and bowls, because that

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Speaker 1: would have been something that you would have seen around

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Speaker 1: these households and not necessarily in poorer situations. But you know,

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Speaker 1: like we were kind of indicating, I mean, his vice

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Speaker 1: was pretty spurious. Uh. And there's a quote from Biomedical

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Speaker 1: Research with the name of Derek Gatherer, great last name, uh,

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Speaker 1: saying despite most of Kay's patients still ending up dead,

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Speaker 1: he was eventually rich enough to make a splendid endowments

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Speaker 1: to his old Cambridge college. And there is still a

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Speaker 1: school at Cambridge with Caius's name. And you know, Caius

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Speaker 1: or any other doctor for that matter, was not able

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Speaker 1: to explain the disease at all. Um So we hate

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Speaker 1: to leave you, you know, with a kind of an

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Speaker 1: unsatisfying climax here. But we don't know what caused it.

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Speaker 1: We don't know what stopped it. We really don't know

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Speaker 1: anything except that it happened, and that it was a

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Speaker 1: pretty big deal and effected the line of succession to

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Speaker 1: the throne in England, and therefore it affected the history

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Speaker 1: of the world from that point, meaning that it affects

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Speaker 1: the world in which we live today. This has been

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Speaker 1: a strange journey. Happy to report that if you are

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Speaker 1: sweating while you listen to this, you probably do not

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Speaker 1: have sweating sickness. Uh so you've got you've got that

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Speaker 1: feather in in your figurative cap at least. But this

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Speaker 1: is an important story. And to thank everybody for tuning in,

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Speaker 1: we were glad to be able to explore this with you.

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Speaker 1: Thanks as always to Gabe Lousier, thanks of course to

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Speaker 1: our own version of sweating sickness. Jonathan Strickland ak the

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Speaker 1: Quister should have brought him in for this one. That

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Speaker 1: would have been fun. He loves this kind of medieval crap. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes he just text me late at night with with

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Speaker 1: strange medical maladies. Yeah. I like the Luke music he

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Speaker 1: accompanies it with. Well, he's been practicing. He's had a

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Speaker 1: lot of time on his hands in quarantine. Uh. Ben,

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Speaker 1: I gotta say, I want to bring this up at

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Speaker 1: the end of this episode. I really think that Bobos

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Speaker 1: is a really cute name for a pet, despite the

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Speaker 1: horrific implications of it as a you know, side effect

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Speaker 1: of the bubonic plague. I fully support this, thanks man.

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Speaker 1: He was a mean fish, but he had a personality

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Speaker 1: I could respect. Was he a Japanese fighting fish? Uh?

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Speaker 1: He was a beta fish. That's that's That's what that is.

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Speaker 1: Was okay? Yeah, Well, well you know, Bobos was Boobos

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Speaker 1: was Boobos, just like a rose as a rose, as

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Speaker 1: a rose, he was his own he was his own thing. Well,

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Speaker 1: Boobo's by any other name would still smell pretty rank. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And that's where we're gonna leave you today. Ridiculous stories.

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Speaker 1: It has been a fun one, a little depressing, uh,

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Speaker 1: and prescient of what's going on in society today, a

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Speaker 1: little weird um. But I enjoyed having this conversation. I

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Speaker 1: was not aware of the English swits and turns out

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Speaker 1: and not a skiffle band that went on tour with

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Speaker 1: Herman's Hermit's Um. But I learned a lot today, Ben,

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Speaker 1: I hope you all did too. Out there in podcast lands,

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Speaker 1: stay inside, Everybody huge thanks to super producer Casey Pegram

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Speaker 1: as always, Alex Williams who composed our theme, Christopher aciotas

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Speaker 1: here in spirit, and I'm gonna go go ahead and

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Speaker 1: drop a double thanks on Gabe. If you're listening, you're

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Speaker 1: double thanks to my friend. And of course we want

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Speaker 1: to thank all of the medical professionals past and present

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Speaker 1: who have been doing their best to keep this grand

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Speaker 1: experiment called the human species alive despite our concerted efforts

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Speaker 1: to end ourselves. We'll see you next time Fox. For

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Speaker 1: more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the I Heart

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Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your

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Speaker 1: favorite shows