Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Kristin Davis, and I want to know are
Speaker 1: you a Charlotte? Okay, so we have the fantastic Jason
Speaker 1: Lewis here with us. Listen. You have so much weird
Speaker 1: and interesting stuff going on that I don't even really
Speaker 1: know where to begin. Normally, where I would begin was
Speaker 1: going back in time, but I want to do that
Speaker 1: in a minute, because right now, First of all, have
Speaker 1: you moved to Costa Rica one hundred percent more or less.
Speaker 2: I'm not like a citizen there, but it's definitely where
Speaker 2: I'm hanging my hat.
Speaker 1: Do you have a place here?
Speaker 2: No? Wow? Yes?
Speaker 1: Amazing? And when did that happen?
Speaker 2: About three years ago?
Speaker 1: Wow? So what was that COVID or just after COVID.
Speaker 2: No, it was after COVID. I just I sat down
Speaker 2: at one point and I wanted did a life by design?
Speaker 2: I started listing what did I want life to look like?
Speaker 2: Top of list is I used to be able to
Speaker 2: speak a pretty decent French and Italian, but nobody uses
Speaker 2: that in the States. And so I just started learning Spanish,
Speaker 2: and I want to learn Spanish. And I wanted to
Speaker 2: be where the water is warm, I could be healthy.
Speaker 2: Food's amazing. And I want to write a book.
Speaker 1: So so you already had the desire to write a
Speaker 1: book before you moved there.
Speaker 2: I started outlining the series of novels in September before COVID.
Speaker 2: So for me, COVID was an obsessive figuring out the
Speaker 2: arc of nine different books, like I had posted notes.
Speaker 1: On the ceiling and okay, so so back up a bit,
Speaker 1: back up a bit. Had you ever written before?
Speaker 2: Yes, I've written for years.
Speaker 1: Okay, like just for yourself or for well.
Speaker 2: My inner critic never really let me share. There's an
Speaker 2: irograph glass. He talked about the idea of you know,
Speaker 2: we get into creative pursuits because of our taste, but
Speaker 2: it's a long journey and every artist should know that
Speaker 2: from where you enter through your taste and being able
Speaker 2: to execute on them.
Speaker 1: That makes sense.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so I never really wrote anything that I felt,
Speaker 2: you know, I could tell the difference between reading something
Speaker 2: that was excellent in my story.
Speaker 1: But you were like creatively internally drawn to writing for
Speaker 1: a long long time.
Speaker 2: I'd probably written seven scripts before I wrote that, And
Speaker 2: actually at first I thought, you know, I'll write this
Speaker 2: as because you know, I'm just coming from being Intellivision
Speaker 2: and film. I was like, I'll write it as a series, right,
Speaker 2: And the more I explored it, the idea of writing
Speaker 2: a novel was outside because I kind of didn't have
Speaker 2: the permission of self to do it. But the more
Speaker 2: I looked at it, I was like, look, I have to
Speaker 2: be economical if I write this as a screenplay, right,
Speaker 2: as a series. If I want to create the world
Speaker 2: that's in my head, write it as a novel.
Speaker 1: Okay, So let's talk about the world that's in your head.
Speaker 1: Because so you're saying that this is going to be
Speaker 1: a series of nine books.
Speaker 2: That's what I've plotted.
Speaker 1: That's crazy.
Speaker 2: To be clear, I'm only on the first one.
Speaker 1: Cool, that's cool, But you have posted for nine. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I can't say it's all digital now, okay, got it? Whatever.
Speaker 1: In my mind, it's a room full of post its.
Speaker 1: But you did you previously like fantasy and sci fi?
Speaker 1: Is that? Are we in the Sciphi or the fantasy everything?
Speaker 2: I'm a I've always been a story lover. I mean
Speaker 2: I worked in libraries as a kid. Oh, I'd go
Speaker 2: to the movies by myself. So I'm an old style
Speaker 2: geek adorable So I've loved every genre. I mean, like
Speaker 2: you know, I love like you know, you get somebody
Speaker 2: like Hemingway in the Economy or you know, grim dark
Speaker 2: fantasy like Joe Abercomy is my favorites today. Okay, Tolkien
Speaker 2: I've probably read three times and similarly and and you know.
Speaker 1: So we're like that, like that's our our mode, like
Speaker 1: like a rich world that you've created.
Speaker 2: Yes, okay, so it's not Earth, it's human like people,
Speaker 2: it's a it's a different universe.
Speaker 1: Okay, so so so so you're you're here, but you're
Speaker 1: not you're here right when this happens, like you're living
Speaker 1: in la Yeah.
Speaker 2: I was in lost Ales when I started penning it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but then you're thinking to yourself like I want
Speaker 1: to change, I want to live somewhere where I can
Speaker 1: be healthier or yeah.
Speaker 2: You know, you step into any pursuit with a general
Speaker 2: idea of what you're getting into. I had no idea
Speaker 2: what I was really diving into. And as it kept
Speaker 2: expanding and it became central focus, I realized that I
Speaker 2: meant it and to do I'm on the fourth draft
Speaker 2: of Number seven, which I started with book the Ending Sagas,
Speaker 2: so I'm going to write the ending of the story
Speaker 2: and then work my way back to the origin. And
Speaker 2: it's an eight hundred page book right now, so I
Speaker 2: needed that focus and dedication to like, hopefully it'll be Wow.
Speaker 1: Did you study writing or did you get some help
Speaker 1: or did you did you?
Speaker 2: I've always written, Like again, I always love story, and
Speaker 2: so I've always like expressed it, you know, through short
Speaker 2: stories or poems or whatever, just growing up. No, I
Speaker 2: think that it's important to study. I think there's no
Speaker 2: one answer. You have to find your own path. You know,
Speaker 2: there's you know, a common idea of plotzers and panthers.
Speaker 2: You know, do you write by the sea? I think
Speaker 2: it's a combination of both. I tend to integrate a
Speaker 2: lot of different structure, things like I'm a big fan
Speaker 2: of the heroine's journey. You know, we classically think of
Speaker 2: story as the hero's journey, but Haroin's journey is more
Speaker 2: found family and growth instead of I go into the
Speaker 2: world alone and I can never return because I've seen
Speaker 2: too much. Yeah, and I think those stories are still great,
Speaker 2: but I also don't think they serve as well for
Speaker 2: learning a growth or today's world. Interesting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but did you like did you just kind of
Speaker 1: self study those types of ideas.
Speaker 2: Yes, I mean I read a lot of books. There's
Speaker 2: a lot of material out there. I went to writing
Speaker 2: ceremoniars to.
Speaker 1: Oh cool cool. So you were doing that like.
Speaker 2: Back, I've been doing that forever.
Speaker 1: That's so amazing, And so in your mind you kind
Speaker 1: of thought, oh, maybe a script. Then you're like, no,
Speaker 1: I don't want to be economical. I want to just
Speaker 1: write like I just want to go.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's look the thing I'm making. I was like,
Speaker 2: nobody's going to hand me HBO money and they'll get
Speaker 2: you know, just chopped into the little bad pieces of
Speaker 2: the vision.
Speaker 1: I was very realistic. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And you know, purely speaking, it also means control
Speaker 2: because not the talk business, but let's talk business. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you write a screenplay, somebody options that they hold that property,
Speaker 2: and you know they can hold it for just the
Speaker 2: loss on their books and you never get to do
Speaker 2: a damn thing with it. That's right. But if I
Speaker 2: write a novel, I can lease that and continue to
Speaker 2: develop my idea for as far as I want. Yeah,
Speaker 2: So it just made sense for pure freedom of expression.
Speaker 1: Wow. So then you're thinking, okay, so I want to
Speaker 1: live somewhere different where I can be healthy and have
Speaker 1: warm water. And you so you had you gone to
Speaker 1: Costa Rica and you just loved it.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Oh yeah, I've been a water baby forever, so
Speaker 2: I've probably been to Coast Streak. Matter of fact, I
Speaker 2: just got back from Coast Strica two days before I
Speaker 2: for the first time book Sex and the City.
Speaker 1: You're kidding.
Speaker 2: No, Well that's.
Speaker 1: A good segue. Let's discuss that. So so you know,
Speaker 1: it's funny because part of the joy of rewatching the
Speaker 1: show because I haven't watched it, you know, since the beginning,
Speaker 1: since we were doing it, right, I don't remember hardly
Speaker 1: anything of this whole phase that we're in. I remembered
Speaker 1: a lot of the beginning, and I remember when you came.
Speaker 1: I have memories of you coming. I have memories of
Speaker 1: the stress of finding the guy, right, like you remember
Speaker 1: I didn't have to deal with that, right, but I
Speaker 1: mean it was a big deal. Like they were very
Speaker 1: into your part, and you know, then you showed up
Speaker 1: and they were like, thank God, we found the guy.
Speaker 1: But I don't know what that experience was like for
Speaker 1: you because I never asked you because we were in
Speaker 1: the middle of film, like, I don't remember asking you
Speaker 1: questions like this back then.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean right, yeah. I think actually having been
Speaker 2: in Kostriaca helped a lot because I had that kind
Speaker 2: of just zen thing going.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 2: And ultimately, if you look at like Sex and the
Speaker 2: City's good writing, Michael Patrick, King and the whole team,
Speaker 2: Cindy and all them, they were good writers because he
Speaker 2: didn't just make it about the superfluous the sex and
Speaker 2: say it was about you four girls, your friendships and
Speaker 2: your growth. And the guys were articulations of that. Yes,
Speaker 2: you know, you were the hub and we were spokes.
Speaker 1: Yes, And sometimes you were obstacles and sometimes you were conduits, right,
Speaker 1: and you're a conduit, which is so exciting to get
Speaker 1: that mess.
Speaker 2: So that's what I think. You know, I'm being serious
Speaker 2: with the zen Coastreakan thing because when you look at
Speaker 2: Samantha's character, her issues were vulnerability, you know, rebellion, pushing back,
Speaker 2: feeling safe to let herself be seen. And you know
Speaker 2: Richard did her note well, you know the first time
Speaker 2: she shows herself as being vulnerables, she paid the price.
Speaker 2: So Smith's character was somebody who could offer acceptance and
Speaker 2: so I think I was just like, hey, everything is great.
Speaker 1: You know, that was your general vibe when you were around,
Speaker 1: which was kind of amazing because it was not the
Speaker 1: vibe of the set right like we were. We ran
Speaker 1: like intense.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was an intense production. You guys are I
Speaker 2: used to call it privately Michael Patrick King Batman because
Speaker 2: that dude was Auditi. You're running two crews. He was
Speaker 2: on both sets. He was leading the writing.
Speaker 1: And directing sometimes and editing, doing post production, casting, all
Speaker 1: of it, all of it. He's super intense and impressive.
Speaker 1: I agree. But also Cindy and Jenny, everybody, everybody so good.
Speaker 1: John John absolutely John is the like the magician behind
Speaker 1: the curtain.
Speaker 2: Basically made sure all the fires got put out or
Speaker 2: where they needed to be.
Speaker 1: Absolutely all of the things anything that anyone needed Johnny.
Speaker 2: Things do not get done by there was a camera.
Speaker 1: So when you so you've been to Costa, Rica and
Speaker 1: then you were in New York or you were here.
Speaker 2: I was living in New York. So that was if
Speaker 2: you remember, that was an incredibly heavy blizzard period.
Speaker 1: I forgot about the blizzard.
Speaker 2: It was so like we had had such an uber,
Speaker 2: uber hard winner and one night I was out at
Speaker 2: dinner with a friend and I was like, I've had enough,
Speaker 2: I'm done, I'm going. And so we got.
Speaker 1: Back from second modeling acting.
Speaker 2: I was acting, got it? Got it.
Speaker 1: So you'd been modeling in the past.
Speaker 2: I had modeled in the past. I walked away from
Speaker 2: that because I tripped into my first acting gig and again,
Speaker 2: like you know, sometimes you don't give yourself permission to
Speaker 2: do stuff, and I got offered a part because of
Speaker 2: you know, notoriety, and I was like, oh, this is
Speaker 2: the storytelling I've always wanted to do. Why wouldn't I
Speaker 2: pursue this? And I tried to do both things. But
Speaker 2: you have to be available to be an actor, definitely,
Speaker 2: and I was never available.
Speaker 1: So I got it.
Speaker 2: I walked away from a lucrative career. I was young
Speaker 2: enough and idealistic enough to do it.
Speaker 1: Totally. Let me ask you this question, just because I'm
Speaker 1: always curious. When you were modeling and you were jet setting,
Speaker 1: you were doing all the things, the shows and the
Speaker 1: all the cool things. Were you happy or were you
Speaker 1: like this is just for right now?
Speaker 2: Honestly, it was such a wonderful opportunity. It it transformed
Speaker 2: as I did it. You know, at first, I had
Speaker 2: a much smaller worldview because I hadn't seen the world.
Speaker 2: And you know, when I first got to Paris, I
Speaker 2: had no real intention. I was just a young punk
Speaker 2: kid FROMO I was twenty one. I turned twenty one,
Speaker 2: like right before I got there.
Speaker 1: A baby.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it was you know, it was a different
Speaker 2: world then too, like we didn't have this monoculture we
Speaker 2: have now. Like I was in a different country. There
Speaker 2: was no phoning home, and it was there was a
Speaker 2: point of awareness because I had a three month ticket.
Speaker 2: I had saved up some money and this agency, like
Speaker 2: you know, they had in front of me the ticket
Speaker 2: and I didn't I really didn't take it serious. But
Speaker 2: as I was coming to the end of that ticket,
Speaker 2: and this was back in the day of paper tickets,
Speaker 2: there was no rebooking, it was like, you know, I
Speaker 2: realized that if I returned to what I knew, I
Speaker 2: would do what I had done mm hmm, that I
Speaker 2: had an opportunity to invent myself in a way. I
Speaker 2: had no clue as to what the outcome could be,
Speaker 2: but the seilings were higher, Yeah, And so I ripped
Speaker 2: up the ticket, forced myself to stay and luckily one
Speaker 2: of my first hobbies was photography at a dark room
Speaker 2: and amazing. So I just started creating my own book
Speaker 2: and started taking it seriously and got a little lucky.
Speaker 1: You know. Yeah, you were also extremely gorgeous.
Speaker 2: Than that was also a good thing. I didn't really
Speaker 2: have that sense of self. You never had that, I agree.
Speaker 2: I mean I was more focused on doing it as business,
Speaker 2: and I think.
Speaker 1: That served me definitely.
Speaker 2: Once I saw it as an opportunity, I treated like
Speaker 2: business most definitely.
Speaker 1: Super smart, super smart. So you're there, you tear up
Speaker 1: the ticket, it goes well.
Speaker 2: No, no, okay, what I starved for a while?
Speaker 1: What I used to uh in Paris? Yes, oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: I well, statueations are done on this, yeah, tell us anything.
Speaker 2: I would case of bakery and still a big get,
Speaker 2: and then I would run.
Speaker 1: I think, no one's going to go and get you.
Speaker 2: And then I would go to like an outdoor cafe
Speaker 2: and take a pot I opened it up before I
Speaker 2: got there, and take a pot of their mustard and
Speaker 2: dump it on, and then I'd have mustard bad a
Speaker 2: lot of my mind.
Speaker 1: It's so crazy, slept on floors. Wow, that's fascinating. And
Speaker 1: then what what changed there?
Speaker 2: I got a booking, Like I said, I managed to
Speaker 2: put together a pretty good book. I still had the
Speaker 2: agency that I was working with at the time, and uh,
Speaker 2: got a booking and started making money.
Speaker 1: And then so it took kind of that one first
Speaker 1: booking and then it moved along since then. Interesting and
Speaker 1: you're still super young and you're just rolling.
Speaker 2: I think, yeah, I think my first like decent money
Speaker 2: started coming in about a year and a half later. Wow,
Speaker 2: so there was like a six month starvation period. Wow,
Speaker 2: like I could buy this one cucumber. Gosh, geez what
Speaker 2: And yeah, it was easy to stay skinny, though, I'll
Speaker 2: tell you what.
Speaker 1: That's amazing. It's so interesting to me because like you know,
Speaker 1: you look at you. I mean, I wasn't thinking objectively
Speaker 1: about all this at the time, right, Like you just
Speaker 1: showed up and everybody was so excited, you know, and
Speaker 1: there was I'm just gonna say this now because it's
Speaker 1: really on my mind from watching the shows again. And
Speaker 1: I do have some memories. Like the thing that I
Speaker 1: remember the most, I remember the stress about your partner.
Speaker 1: I remember everyone discussing, like, who are we going to get?
Speaker 1: It's got to be this and it's got to be that.
Speaker 1: And like they had built it up, you know, so
Speaker 1: much so that you were going to be you were
Speaker 1: going to be vulnerable, but you're going to be beautiful,
Speaker 1: and you were going to be so hot you know
Speaker 1: whatever that means, right, which is so subjective, right, But
Speaker 1: it had to be someone where all the women in
Speaker 1: your restaurant that you, your character was a waiter in,
Speaker 1: would be trying to go home with you, right, And
Speaker 1: then Samantha would also think you were like the prize,
Speaker 1: right set, and obviously she can have and do whatever
Speaker 1: she wants theoretically, right, So, but you also had to
Speaker 1: be vulnerable, and you also had to match her energy
Speaker 1: and like have like some power in the you know,
Speaker 1: presence with her, and she had very strong, strong energy.
Speaker 1: So it was so many things. And I remember a
Speaker 1: lot of stress of them talking and I remember that
Speaker 1: and then be so excited that they found you. Everyone
Speaker 1: be like, oh, they found him, you know whatever. And
Speaker 1: then you show up and you were just so calm
Speaker 1: and likable and sweet, you know, and like I was
Speaker 1: just like, oh my god, I want to take care
Speaker 1: of him. But then I couldn't really take care of
Speaker 1: you because I was over here doing the right thing,
Speaker 1: and you know what I mean. But remember when we
Speaker 1: had that scene and I can't remember, are you doing
Speaker 1: a play and we come to see the play and
Speaker 1: they're naked?
Speaker 2: Jesus? I was.
Speaker 1: I know, I was dying for you. I mean, was
Speaker 1: that the first thing you filmed or is that just
Speaker 1: my first memory?
Speaker 2: It's probably just first. It's a standout. It was a
Speaker 2: lot man, I mean, fearful of people.
Speaker 1: I mean a big theater and you're completely naked and
Speaker 1: then they make you bow, and I was like, you, guys,
Speaker 1: give this poor guy a Oh. They were fine. Believe me,
Speaker 1: they've seen a lot by then, they've seen a lot.
Speaker 1: But I just was like stressed for you because I
Speaker 1: felt like, first of all, you've been built up to
Speaker 1: this thing right second, and you were doing so great,
Speaker 1: Like your way that you were with everyone was so
Speaker 1: relaxed and put everybody at ease, which was so nice,
Speaker 1: especially if someone so gorgeous you don't expect it. And
Speaker 1: for men who are so gorgeous, I feel like the
Speaker 1: objectification element must be odd.
Speaker 2: I think it's equal for men and women in different ways.
Speaker 2: There's a a term for it. It's called the Cinderella
Speaker 2: effect psychological term, and this idea that people see you
Speaker 2: other than what you are, and the Cinderella effects is
Speaker 2: the negative aspect of it, you know, you know, the
Speaker 2: mean stepsisters hating Cinderella for being Cinderella. Yes, yeah, I
Speaker 2: mean I'd had some practice with it before then, and
Speaker 2: like I said, I never really had that as my
Speaker 2: worldview for me. I was lucky enough to have spent
Speaker 2: a lot of time in books and reading and having
Speaker 2: other opinions. But you know, in that time, I think
Speaker 2: there was also a gift in it, because the best
Speaker 2: thing that we can do is develop our empathy for others,
Speaker 2: to try and understand what other people go through. And
Speaker 2: we live in a different conversation now. You girls are
Speaker 2: from a different time than what these girls had to
Speaker 2: put up with to be a strong woman at that time,
Speaker 2: to hold your power like your your bitch and you know,
Speaker 2: sorry you.
Speaker 1: Can say okay.
Speaker 2: So you either had to be like this strong arm
Speaker 2: bitch or you had to be super accommodating. And boy
Speaker 2: were the judgment And not that it's you know, completely gone,
Speaker 2: but the equanimity is more present than it used to be,
Speaker 2: and so I got, you know, in some ways to
Speaker 2: experience and see what you ladies went through. A matter
Speaker 2: of fact, I mean that's I remember when the show
Speaker 2: first got announced, long before I ever had anything to
Speaker 2: do with it, I was like, I wonder if this
Speaker 2: will work because the world is the world going to
Speaker 2: let for young women be leading ladies. That's not television.
Speaker 2: You could do it on The Golden Girls, but but
Speaker 2: you were that was a different class show.
Speaker 1: You know, it was totally totally different, so exciting, so
Speaker 1: excited to be a part of. But there was a
Speaker 1: lot of negative in the beginning, and then you know,
Speaker 1: it slowly eroded. And I think a lot of that
Speaker 1: had to do with the writing right, and it being
Speaker 1: so relatable and people you know, finding themselves in it
Speaker 1: and women embracing it obviously, but like eventually the men
Speaker 1: the It was really I think driven by the male
Speaker 1: critics who were like older white guys at the time, right,
Speaker 1: different times for sure, but I also think that over time,
Speaker 1: you know, it served a purpose and the writing filled
Speaker 1: so much Like when I because you were coming and
Speaker 1: I was like, well, I could watch this first episode
Speaker 1: because obviously that's when you show up. But it's just
Speaker 1: a tiny, tiny taste of what was coming, and I
Speaker 1: just fell down the rabbit hole and I just couldn't
Speaker 1: stop watching, right, So I stayed up too late last
Speaker 1: night watching because it's really really fun to watch, Like,
Speaker 1: I totally can see what we created in a much
Speaker 1: more objective way now in terms.
Speaker 2: Of absolutely Plus you don't have the pressure of doing
Speaker 2: your character. The characters were human. Yeah, I mean, I
Speaker 2: think Sex and the City, you know, unlike some of
Speaker 2: the spin off things. Of course, the sensational fun stories
Speaker 2: are meant to entertain, but a good story entertains with allegory,
Speaker 2: and we have space through the change and the challenges
Speaker 2: that the characters go through to assess their own experience,
Speaker 2: you know, And that's why it has everything in that
Speaker 2: show had that. So yeah, you'd have the moments where, like,
Speaker 2: you know, somebody like something super sensational, like breaking up
Speaker 2: with somebody over a post it note.
Speaker 1: Also like your crazy sex scenes you had with SMITHA.
Speaker 1: I don't know, I was what I.
Speaker 2: Was like, Oh, I really did get thrown into it
Speaker 2: right away.
Speaker 1: I mean, what did you think, Like, what were your
Speaker 1: thoughts at the time?
Speaker 2: Hold on for sure, Look, I think part of it.
Speaker 2: Of course, it was overwhelming. I'd done enough at the
Speaker 2: point to have a different, you know, sense of self
Speaker 2: than the kid who had first gone to Europe. But
Speaker 2: you could see, like you could see it in the writing,
Speaker 2: you know. I you know, I hadn't seen much of
Speaker 2: the show beforehand, and when I got hired, I had
Speaker 2: a huge binge watch and watched from start to finish,
Speaker 2: and so I could see clearly the level of commitment
Speaker 2: of the writers and the actors that this show meant something. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and so you know, there's more safety to do something
Speaker 2: like that, because it wasn't just the bullshit. Yeah you know,
Speaker 2: oh yeah, here, let's get naked. You know, there was
Speaker 2: a real and looking back on that character, the art,
Speaker 2: there was a real story purpose to this character.
Speaker 1: Major?
Speaker 2: Yeah, major.
Speaker 1: Did you know that when they hired you? What did
Speaker 1: they say?
Speaker 2: No? I just knew that, Like there was this amazing
Speaker 2: opportunity for a wildly successful show and oh yeah, sure
Speaker 2: I'll show off. Of course it was a great audition.
Speaker 1: Did Michael talk to you about the plan a little?
Speaker 2: You know? He was kind of Michael did, But I
Speaker 2: had to do the the naked placinge uh in the audition?
Speaker 1: Yes, but wait, you didn't have to take your clothes. No,
Speaker 1: he wasn't. That would be really bad. Okay, Okay, he
Speaker 1: was a sad heart. Of course he was a sweetheart.
Speaker 1: But you you had to do that in the in the.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so at first, and this is you know
Speaker 2: where I'm glad, I, you know, did the research and
Speaker 2: knew enough about the show before or I did the audition.
Speaker 2: So I did my take on the play and it
Speaker 2: was a little too comical, tongue in cheek. I think
Speaker 2: he gave me a direction, and I remember saying to him,
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, so you want this more like
Speaker 2: a Pitner play. Yeah, And he's like, it.
Speaker 1: Was super s exactly, oh wow, And.
Speaker 2: I went, oh, so, even with the comedy of this moment,
Speaker 2: you are putting the depth underneath it, and you always
Speaker 2: want it there definitely. So I think, you know, knowing
Speaker 2: that you're more willing to do the weird, vulnerable shit.
Speaker 1: That was being really yeah, because you knew that, you
Speaker 1: knew that the depth was more important and that they
Speaker 1: would be going to that place at some point.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you were just taking your clothes off for the
Speaker 2: sake of taking the clothes, right, which.
Speaker 1: Is I think a huge difference, huge difference That's the
Speaker 1: thing that people talk about too with sex scenes, like
Speaker 1: is it serving the plot? Is it somehow forwarding this story?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Because ultimately everything should be in service of the story.
Speaker 2: The actor is the director of the writer's Absolutely story
Speaker 2: comes first. When you know that's happening. As an actor,
Speaker 2: you're like, how lucky am I?
Speaker 1: Definitely?
Speaker 2: I get to tell a story that matters.
Speaker 1: So when you first came on the show, how many
Speaker 1: what was the contractual commitment in terms of number of
Speaker 1: episodes or what.
Speaker 2: I don't know if I remember that. I mean I
Speaker 2: think it was like six, That's what I thought.
Speaker 1: It wasn't It wasn't like, you.
Speaker 2: Know, it was like, we'll see if this works out,
Speaker 2: got it?
Speaker 1: And did they ever talk to you about the cancer
Speaker 1: or where it was going with Samantha's character?
Speaker 2: Not until we got close to it.
Speaker 1: Wow. So you were just along for the ride, yeah,
Speaker 1: and just trusting Michael and I remember you talking like
Speaker 1: you were around, like you weren't like some guys when
Speaker 1: they come on our show were like, well this is
Speaker 1: their show. I'm just visiting. I'm just going to come
Speaker 1: and go. I remember you would hang out, you'd be
Speaker 1: at Valley Village, video village, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I also felt very super invited. I mean
Speaker 2: I remember my very first day, which was that restaurant scene. Yeah,
Speaker 2: a moose boosh.
Speaker 1: That was hard to say for some reason. I remember that.
Speaker 1: I remember like some because we were all like, what
Speaker 1: is this? Like, we didn't really know vegan terms, right.
Speaker 2: I was nervous as hell because you know, like, sure
Speaker 2: is first day on set. You guys were a established production.
Speaker 2: Everybody knows each other. It's like going to a new
Speaker 2: school and everybody knows everyone and you're the new guy.
Speaker 2: And then ironically, lunch was at a school cafeteria across
Speaker 2: the street, and I remember when I went into line,
Speaker 2: and there's rules for lunch, and it's not an elitist thing,
Speaker 2: it's a production thing. People above the line get first
Speaker 2: DIBs on the food because then they have to get
Speaker 2: back in hair and makeup while everybody's setting stuff up.
Speaker 2: So it's you know, get these people fed and then
Speaker 2: get them turned around. And so I had walked in
Speaker 2: to the line and.
Speaker 1: I got pulled out by a PA because.
Speaker 2: He didn't know who I was. And at first I
Speaker 2: was like, what did I Oh, he doesn't realize it,
Speaker 2: and so I got back in line and I grabbed
Speaker 2: my lunch and i looked out over the sea of
Speaker 2: people and I'm like, I'm all alone, no, no, And
Speaker 2: I wasn't because Sarah came right up to me. You
Speaker 2: guys were sitting together and just took me and sat
Speaker 2: me down. And immediately you were there, and Cynthia was there,
Speaker 2: and I think Kim wasn't. I don't remember, but I
Speaker 2: remember Sarah grabbing me from the lunchline and seeing the
Speaker 2: lost puppy. You brought me in right away. You were
Speaker 2: very like warm and engendering good.
Speaker 1: I think by then we really realized, for especially guys
Speaker 1: who had an ARC right, which we knew you at
Speaker 1: that point, that you were not just like a couple right,
Speaker 1: that you were an ARC. I think we realized that
Speaker 1: it's hard, it's hard to come in. We've obviously been
Speaker 1: established for a while. By that point, we were successful.
Speaker 1: And in the beginning, we'd had like these kind of
Speaker 1: one off guys, right, you know, like I would have
Speaker 1: a date a week basically in the beginning, But then
Speaker 1: we started having the longer storylines and we knew that
Speaker 1: this was going to be a longer storyline and that
Speaker 1: it helped everybody for us to include and also like
Speaker 1: we don't want anyone feeling sad, No.
Speaker 2: You know, wonderful.
Speaker 1: So glad.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I may have been showing up, but it was
Speaker 2: easy to show up to like people made space.
Speaker 1: I'm glad. I'm so glad. I just remember you being
Speaker 1: I just remember the hoopla before you got there, and
Speaker 1: then I remember you coming in all this going like whoa,
Speaker 1: Like good lord did they find the guy? Oh my god?
Speaker 1: And then you're just being the sweetest, sweetest, like so
Speaker 1: nice to everyone, Like all the writers loved you. Everybody
Speaker 1: always was like, oh, maybe Jason won't come to X,
Speaker 1: Y or Z. Like you know what I'm saying, Like
Speaker 1: you were you were like the new kid, but we
Speaker 1: were super excited. You know that's right. I remember, And
Speaker 1: I felt like you had such a hard job in
Speaker 1: terms of like you had to walk this line of
Speaker 1: being this hunk you know, who she really wants. But
Speaker 1: then also you're an actor, but then that can be
Speaker 1: such a cliche, right, which is kind of in the writing,
Speaker 1: which I loved.
Speaker 2: Well. Again, like I think that speaks to how good
Speaker 2: the writing was because they played into the tropes instead
Speaker 2: of like avoiding them. But like your character, I think,
Speaker 2: you know, and you did an amazing job with thank you,
Speaker 2: because it would have been so easy for you to
Speaker 2: let that character be naive and annoying, and instead, you know,
Speaker 2: there was sincerity and hope. Like all the characters served
Speaker 2: a purpose. They weren't just these character types. You know,
Speaker 2: you had that heart and it can work out and
Speaker 2: let's you know where you know, maybe you know, Carrie
Speaker 2: was the analyst and Miranda was the critic, and you know,
Speaker 2: certainly Samantha was the world.
Speaker 1: Totally, totally totally, and I think that's why, like, and
Speaker 1: this is what I love, like to me when we
Speaker 1: watch Samantha with you, it's the culmination of all of
Speaker 1: these years of seasons that she's been I'm doing what
Speaker 1: i want. I'm doing what i want, I'm untouchable, I'm
Speaker 1: going to take what i want. Like such a kind
Speaker 1: of traditionally male power character. Yeah, absolutely, and so incredibly
Speaker 1: powerful as a result. Right, Like, you just don't see
Speaker 1: this character, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: But that's also the thing about all the characters, Like
Speaker 2: there was something for all the characters to learn. Yeah, right,
Speaker 2: because if there is no change. If there is nothing
Speaker 2: to learn, it's not.
Speaker 1: Interesting, absolutely, And that's what was so great for that character,
Speaker 1: because you are like all the things at once, right,
Speaker 1: Like you're a hot hunk whatever, right, Like she would
Speaker 1: theoretically want like her impulse of like I want that,
Speaker 1: I want that, and you're so much more and you
Speaker 1: see her struggling against it, like the episode where you
Speaker 1: guys are role playing you know, different things. That's so
Speaker 1: good and it has such a great conversation because I've
Speaker 1: forgotten all this, right, I'm like, what is going on?
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, my shoes are stuck together. I'm like, what
Speaker 1: is going on with this?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 1: Because you're she has like a not rape fantasy, but
Speaker 1: like close right, and you know you're just playing along.
Speaker 1: It's so so likable. And then she comes and she
Speaker 1: tells us the whole This is the scene where Burger
Speaker 1: is going to tell us that he's just not that
Speaker 1: into you. It's such an amazing scene because it starts
Speaker 1: with her reliving this rape fantasy she had with you,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, Samantha, you know, rape in any form, no.
Speaker 2: No, no.
Speaker 1: And it shows each character's perception of that, right, And
Speaker 1: then you she's she leaves because you call her and
Speaker 1: she's like gotta go, you know. And then Miranda's telling
Speaker 1: us the whole, you know, blow by blow of her
Speaker 1: date the night before and how this guy she really
Speaker 1: likes but he couldn't come up and he's going to
Speaker 1: call her, and Burger's like sitting there and I've forgotten.
Speaker 1: I knew that that part was coming at some point,
Speaker 1: but you know, you forget how seamlessly they would write
Speaker 1: it in.
Speaker 2: It's in that again mark of a good writing they
Speaker 2: you know, I actually was, you know, when you asked
Speaker 2: me to do this. I started reflecting a little and
Speaker 2: watching a couple of episodes and just it's been resurfacing it. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's I think, like when you have really good character
Speaker 2: development like they had, it seems as if they've planned
Speaker 2: it from the very very go, because there's truth connective
Speaker 2: tissue all the way through. Yeah, and so I guarantee
Speaker 2: you they had no idea there was going to be
Speaker 2: a Smith character when they started, but they understood the
Speaker 2: character that they made of Samantha. Yeah, just like you
Speaker 2: know you ending up with Harry Harry Adan's character, like
Speaker 2: well you were the you know, life's got to be
Speaker 2: in the perfect package. And so your lesson as a
Speaker 2: character was to learn that some times things go different
Speaker 2: than you expected.
Speaker 1: Yes, and she has that lesson over and over and over,
Speaker 1: which is so great.
Speaker 2: I doubt they knew that they were going to write
Speaker 2: now character, but they understood the characters so well, and
Speaker 2: so the writings came from them naturally.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, the character. I think that comes and I'm
Speaker 1: sure that you're facing this with your own writing. It
Speaker 1: takes such confidence to trust that it does it.
Speaker 2: It's also a gift when you start doing because it
Speaker 2: kind of leads you to the answer. You know, it's
Speaker 2: almost letting it come in instead of pushing.
Speaker 1: It out nice. You know that's amazing, Like you're like,
Speaker 1: the character really do this?
Speaker 2: No, this is dishonest. And one of the things I've
Speaker 2: worked the most on is that understanding the motivations of why,
Speaker 2: and then you get these wonderful plot points or new characters.
Speaker 1: Let's go back to the writing for a second. So
Speaker 1: you're in Costa Rica. What does a day look like?
Speaker 2: Kind of boring? But you just wake up and you write,
Speaker 2: I get up like around four why because I god
Speaker 2: like eight thirty? I like to see down to see
Speaker 2: don I live on like a ten mile long beach.
Speaker 1: What the video that you made on Instagram your beach? Yeah, oh, Jason.
Speaker 2: So I'll either walk it, or I'll run it, or
Speaker 2: I'll surf it. I surf with the tide. So sometimes
Speaker 2: it's in the morning, sometimes it's midday. Then I you know,
Speaker 2: I have my little routines. I get going, extra little exercise,
Speaker 2: wake myself up, coffee, and I put about. It depends
Speaker 2: on the day and other demands. But I write almost
Speaker 2: every day and I put good five hours in most days.
Speaker 1: Amazing. Did you have to develop that discipline or did
Speaker 1: it you go, Okay, that's kind of hard.
Speaker 2: I think it is. It is, And it's also like anything,
Speaker 2: you get a sort of kinetic momentum. Going through the
Speaker 2: last draft. There are things that I've had to figure out,
Speaker 2: you know, when you decide that you're going to write
Speaker 2: across thousands of years, and there's still a lot that
Speaker 2: I have to figure out. But I've figured out lineages,
Speaker 2: and I know the ending of six, I know the
Speaker 2: ending of five, I know the ending of four to one,
Speaker 2: two and three. I have all those paint and these
Speaker 2: different characters now there's going to be a lot to
Speaker 2: discover along the way. But I look back at some
Speaker 2: of those earlier notes, I had no idea. Now you've
Speaker 2: got this concrete development of a thousand million choices that
Speaker 2: you've made and cobbled together into a substance. And so
Speaker 2: that led to that sort of kinetic feeling like it's
Speaker 2: so easy. Like at first it was a forced discipline,
Speaker 2: and now it's I really want to get to the chair,
Speaker 2: and most other things are in the way.
Speaker 1: Wow. When you so you said you were looking at
Speaker 1: the fourth draft, do you share it with someone or
Speaker 1: get advice?
Speaker 2: I did on the third is the third draft that
Speaker 2: I did it the second Sorry okay, no, it was
Speaker 2: the second draft. So on the second draft of it,
Speaker 2: I gave it to a development editor. Wonderful girl. Oh
Speaker 2: got it, got it, got she really knows. She used
Speaker 2: to work for HarperCollins fantasy and stuff. And it was great,
Speaker 2: And it was really encouraging because I've spent an enormous
Speaker 2: amount of time alone because you know, it's like, it's
Speaker 2: really hard to bother people with this, honestly telling people
Speaker 2: the So what's Tolkien about elves? There's some elves in it?
Speaker 2: I don't have else. It was really encouraging because her
Speaker 2: notes weren't very far off from what I already understood,
Speaker 2: and I've in between all the drafts. What I do
Speaker 2: is I re outline and I redeveloped the you know,
Speaker 2: the core structure as it's refined. Matter of fact, I
Speaker 2: just did a whole two week thing on because I
Speaker 2: really reached a point in the draft where there's this
Speaker 2: prophecy thing. I have my own magic system in history,
Speaker 2: and so I wanted to make sure it was really
Speaker 2: clear before. Because this is the draft that I will
Speaker 2: put out people and start getting like finished polish notes,
Speaker 2: I'd like to try and publish it on one more draft.
Speaker 1: Let's get back to you. So you're in Costa Rica.
Speaker 1: You're you're getting up your exercise at four in the morning.
Speaker 2: So I usually I'll get up, you know, I have
Speaker 2: my coffee or some tea. I do a little like
Speaker 2: warm up exercise. I like to start the day learning
Speaker 2: a little. Then I go for my walk. Then when
Speaker 2: I've gotten the ants out of my pants, I'll usually
Speaker 2: have a writing session in the morning and then go
Speaker 2: have breakfast, and then I'll have another writing session. If
Speaker 2: I don't have a other demand, I'll do like a
Speaker 2: yoga eater or something.
Speaker 1: Just to step away nice, nice, poor, a nap amazing.
Speaker 2: And so basically my days are sort of rinse and repeat.
Speaker 2: I eat, I sleep, I write.
Speaker 1: Do you miss being here at all? Yes?
Speaker 2: And no. There are things here that I can access,
Speaker 2: and you know, I travel a good amount, like you know,
Speaker 2: go to New York. I was just there, and when
Speaker 2: I do, like I just went to a comedy show
Speaker 2: night with a buddy, which was great. It was really
Speaker 2: good to good good. Yeah. Yeah, so there's that kind
Speaker 2: of stuff, but there is sort of a fundamental flaw
Speaker 2: that I do enjoy, Like there's a simple way I
Speaker 2: live in a small town and yeah, maybe the ambitions
Speaker 2: are smaller, but nobody's invisible.
Speaker 1: That's nice.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really lovely, Like we're kind of forgetting community,
Speaker 2: especially with the way social media and news and everything
Speaker 2: has been broadcast at people for all these years, about
Speaker 2: creating this sense of us and them and each other
Speaker 2: and you know, the cohesiveness, like you know, one time
Speaker 2: we were talking about your skunking issue. Earlier, when I
Speaker 2: got skunked, I was on a I was on a
Speaker 2: four month camping trip and I camped across the US
Speaker 2: with my dogs, and you know what I saw, and
Speaker 2: same thing I see everywhere I've traveled in the world.
Speaker 2: There's more that binds us as people than separate Persinitely,
Speaker 2: when we just are stuck in these anonymous, big system structures,
Speaker 2: we sometimes forget that.
Speaker 1: Of course, I think that's really really important, really important
Speaker 1: to remember. It's great. So you're more, you feel more
Speaker 1: part of a community, you're less.
Speaker 2: And I'm a bit of a hermit. I mean, like
Speaker 2: I said, I eat, I sleep, I surve I right, like,
Speaker 2: I spend a lot of time alone, sort of a
Speaker 2: quiet life.
Speaker 1: So when it suits you, you're saying it suits.
Speaker 2: It suits the path I'm on, right.
Speaker 1: Right, right, So it might not be forever.
Speaker 2: No dream of dreams. I write this book in the
Speaker 2: next book in a different country.
Speaker 1: Oh wow, that's cool.
Speaker 2: I kind of want to, Like, I figured, it'll take
Speaker 2: me about those massagnoses.
Speaker 1: Mum, fluid you need to speak Spanish fluently.
Speaker 2: I need about two more years.
Speaker 1: Okay, I've missed the years the rest of way. Cool cool,
Speaker 1: two years to learn Spanish fluently or to finish the book.
Speaker 2: You know, to learn Spanish. But probably that's about like
Speaker 2: the time where I would be, you know, publishing and
Speaker 2: stuff with this book. Uh so, I don't know. I
Speaker 2: want to, but maybe I'll learn Portuguese next.
Speaker 1: Very cool.
Speaker 2: I've never been there.
Speaker 1: It looks amazing me too. So do you miss acting
Speaker 1: at all?
Speaker 2: I do. I do because of the storytelling aspect of it.
Speaker 2: I love storytelling. I love being a part of the story.
Speaker 2: And sets are so damn fun.
Speaker 1: They are fun. They they're interesting. Yea, very interesting.
Speaker 2: I've started putting more focus back towards returning.
Speaker 1: To that great Oh I thought it was I thought
Speaker 1: you were.
Speaker 2: No. I think it's something that I always want to embrace.
Speaker 2: But there's you know, as an actor, oftentimes you have
Speaker 2: very little participation in the creative direction of something. You're
Speaker 2: an interpreter. There's a joy I get from playing that
Speaker 2: puzzle all by myself.
Speaker 1: I get it. I mean, that's one of the things
Speaker 1: that I realize now in retrospect. We had even though
Speaker 1: we didn't have the titles in the beginning of the show,
Speaker 1: we were so included. And because you're creating this character
Speaker 1: with the writers over time, over time, over time, you
Speaker 1: do get to have so much more input. Like it's
Speaker 1: satisfying in a different way.
Speaker 2: Well, I think there was also a testament to the
Speaker 2: vision and confidence.
Speaker 1: Of yeah, the team, Michael and everybody.
Speaker 2: Yeah, sure, like he knew what he knew, like a
Speaker 2: good leader, Yeah, listens to everything and then makes a decision. Yep,
Speaker 2: you know, a week leader refuses to let the ideas in.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's true, that's true. No, he was always
Speaker 1: a porous Like I didn't realize this. I had him
Speaker 1: on maybe a couple of weeks ago, and yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: he's it's so much fun how the writer's on. It's
Speaker 1: really exciting. I mean, it's also absolutely well, well, my
Speaker 1: whole point in doing this was too really too thing
Speaker 1: one is that I felt like everyone else was rewatching
Speaker 1: it and talking about it and putting their thoughts on
Speaker 1: it and whatnot, and I felt like, well, why aren't
Speaker 1: we part of that conversation, you know, like we made
Speaker 1: it right, Like, let's talk about it. And I also
Speaker 1: wanted to kind of make a tapestry of the different
Speaker 1: voices of the different people that were part of making
Speaker 1: the show right, because it takes so many people, as
Speaker 1: you know, like over all this time, you know, the writers,
Speaker 1: the producers, you know, I haven't had as many crew
Speaker 1: members on the Yeah, exactly. I would love to have more,
Speaker 1: but but it takes a lot lot a lot of people.
Speaker 1: And also I love to hear because it has turned
Speaker 1: into it it's it's held its place so well, you know,
Speaker 1: which we never really could have ever dreamt of.
Speaker 2: You know, it's amazing particular that kind of stuff. Definitely, Definitely,
Speaker 2: I do think it comes to what we keep bringing up,
Speaker 2: like the characters are as relatable now as that's why
Speaker 2: books last hundreds of years, you know, the time periods
Speaker 2: have changed, but the humanity hasn't.
Speaker 1: Absolutely and the questions like you know how Carrie always
Speaker 1: has question every every episode about your relationship. I'm always like, oh,
Speaker 1: that's such a good question. I have to ask that
Speaker 1: question about X, Y or Z right, like it really
Speaker 1: it's incredible. And again that's the writing, but it's also
Speaker 1: the execution of the writing.
Speaker 2: Oh absolutely.
Speaker 1: You know, as you mentioned earlier, you know, we were
Speaker 1: an intense it was an intense world, which I think
Speaker 1: has been you know, somewhat misinterpreted or whatever misconstrued I
Speaker 1: guess out there in the world. But I think that
Speaker 1: to me, part of the reason that the show is
Speaker 1: so good is because every single person took their job
Speaker 1: very seriously.
Speaker 2: Absolutely right, yeah, and did damn good jobs like powerhouse acting.
Speaker 2: Absolutely but a.
Speaker 1: Costume set deck, everybody was like very committed. Yes, you
Speaker 1: can say costume, right, tell us what do you remember?
Speaker 2: Oh god, she was like one of the most amazing
Speaker 2: people every Yeah that field.
Speaker 1: Sorry, yeah, it's okay, they know, but you know, I
Speaker 1: just got to say it.
Speaker 2: She like it was just a force of nature she
Speaker 2: was before she ever got in. It's like she was
Speaker 2: the known icon in New York.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah before she like were you tapped in
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff before?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Because of the model, she knew who she was
Speaker 2: and you know, like for me in New York, especially
Speaker 2: at that time, like it's more hegemonized now. Ye. At
Speaker 2: that time, New York was this vibrant, be who you
Speaker 2: are location. Like I landed in my first like days
Speaker 2: in New York and I was like, you can be
Speaker 2: whoever you want to be here and it's okay. Definitely,
Speaker 2: Like I used to love that about New York because
Speaker 2: the different echelons of people that would intermingle.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so she.
Speaker 2: Would be Yeah, I mean I've seen pat out like
Speaker 2: you know, things like CBGB's she was. Yeah, she was
Speaker 2: a wild child.
Speaker 1: She was a you were out there too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well I was supposed to be. I was in
Speaker 2: my early twenties.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I never think of you that way.
Speaker 1: I mean I was so like fuddy Duddy by that
Speaker 1: point because I was sober, so I wasn't necessarily always.
Speaker 2: Yeah right time I was. You know, I was like
Speaker 2: thirty something when I got hired on. Oh yeah I was.
Speaker 1: I was a dealer, so young, I mean, didn't we
Speaker 1: all let's discuss again, let's discuss. So you come, You're like, whoa,
Speaker 1: this is a lot, right, and you're thrown in And
Speaker 1: then what was it like when your first episode aired?
Speaker 2: It was interesting because you know, I was still young
Speaker 2: enough that I think I definitely got a little carried
Speaker 2: away with self. You did, Yeah, not like arrogant and weird,
Speaker 2: but like was going out and like, let's do all
Speaker 2: the things that I mean, Yeah, I was one of
Speaker 2: my best lessons. I over played my hand and burned
Speaker 2: the candle at both ends and came a little unprepared
Speaker 2: to say, oh yeah, let me knowes I.
Speaker 1: Was rought it And what did he say?
Speaker 2: He let me know? That I should never do that again.
Speaker 2: It was great. It was really good because it uh,
Speaker 2: you know, it was like, yeah, you're here to do
Speaker 2: a job. Yeah, you're not here to ground and play. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and so the ground and the play is great. But
Speaker 2: and so, you know, the first when it first came out,
Speaker 2: like I definitely I think it's got a little excited,
Speaker 2: well really so yeah, but then very much, you know,
Speaker 2: I realized what a wonderful opportunity and this is something
Speaker 2: I love doing, and you know, that was far more
Speaker 2: important than some party.
Speaker 1: So okay, so you're in New York it comes out,
Speaker 1: is the response positive? Like oh yeah, okay, got it.
Speaker 2: It was really also, you know, I mean, look at me.
Speaker 2: I looked like sort of an atypical male figure from
Speaker 2: the high school bully or whatever. I mean, I had
Speaker 2: a certain reaction to how to say this, Lesbians liked
Speaker 2: me a lot more after Sex and the City came out.
Speaker 1: Lesbians specifically, Okay, well I never had a problem with
Speaker 1: the gay community, but I looked like that guy. Oh
Speaker 1: you mean, people like projected onto you got.
Speaker 2: Rejected an idea of who I was supposed to be
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, you know.
Speaker 1: Like it looked like the bully. Is that what you're
Speaker 1: trying to tell me.
Speaker 2: The bully or the guy who put himself like in
Speaker 2: the cool pocket.
Speaker 1: Yes, you did look very cool, very.
Speaker 2: Cool, and that wasn't my you know how I heard
Speaker 2: myself And I remember there was a tangible shift because
Speaker 2: I was still going out and you know there's the
Speaker 2: art scene in the music scene in New York at
Speaker 2: that time was so vibrant, and I was like, oh wow,
Speaker 2: like I'm one known now, right, there's nothing anonymous about
Speaker 2: me in New York because this is New York show, right.
Speaker 2: But also it shifted that perception that.
Speaker 1: I was that guy cool.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's good. I was super positive.
Speaker 1: That's really really nice. I like that. I mean because
Speaker 1: I feel like what I really loved and hadn't really
Speaker 1: remembered about your very very first episode, the way that
Speaker 1: you are within what they wrote, right, like they wrote
Speaker 1: it's cool how they kind of you're like a woman,
Speaker 1: like a desirable woman. Yes, in a way, right, definitely,
Speaker 1: Like all those girls are there and they all want
Speaker 1: to go home with you, and it's like a showdown
Speaker 1: between Samantha and this other girl and they'reing their tops
Speaker 1: and whatever. It's kind of crazy. I'd forgotten all of that.
Speaker 2: And then they're doing that swing dick energy.
Speaker 1: Big time, big time, big time, but with some like
Speaker 1: you had a twinkle in your eye from the get
Speaker 1: go right like that you were in on the game,
Speaker 1: or that you you were gonna kind of undercut it,
Speaker 1: or that you know, like there was something counter counter
Speaker 1: to what you know, like underneath it from immediately, which
Speaker 1: I hadn't remembered and was impressive, and then you I
Speaker 1: can't remember the first one because then, like I said,
Speaker 1: I fell down the hole and I had to watch
Speaker 1: a lot. But you you go home and you say
Speaker 1: you oh, and you go like you know, you didn't
Speaker 1: have to come back and do all this. I was
Speaker 1: ready to go home. We did, like they were just
Speaker 1: very cut, cut the nonsense to the fun and then
Speaker 1: like to watch how it went after that, like you
Speaker 1: do this crazy thing with the role playing in the
Speaker 1: crazy sex acrobatics insanity that I had also fully forgotten about.
Speaker 1: And then you try to kept you start trying to
Speaker 1: get to the real thing with her, like you tell
Speaker 1: her your name and then you're like, you don't know
Speaker 1: my name because she's calling you mister, mister Hansom or something.
Speaker 1: What's she calling you, mister something like mister sexy And
Speaker 1: you're like, yeah, you don't know my name, do you?
Speaker 1: Like you're just cutting away from nonsense with her, but
Speaker 1: in such a likable way. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Again, when you hand a good writing, it's easy to act.
Speaker 2: I mean not easy, no, no, but you have but
Speaker 2: you don't have to invent it. You find it's I mean,
Speaker 2: they never played hard on it, but that's what his
Speaker 2: whole sober thing is. So the way I saw the characters,
Speaker 2: or see the characters in retrospective is here is this
Speaker 2: woman who, in some respects I'm going to borrow a
Speaker 2: term from Brene is foreboding joy like, rather than allow
Speaker 2: herself to fill anything for people, I'm just going to
Speaker 2: have the fun. I'm going to keep it detached and that.
Speaker 2: But there's a certain lack of full experience for doing that. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And then you have this guy who comes in who
Speaker 2: can be completely comfortable and accepting it. And I think
Speaker 2: that that was, you know, like with the alcoholism, what
Speaker 2: it was somebody who had found comfort and self But
Speaker 2: like any good, really good writing, I think that's also
Speaker 2: you know, what she offered him is like ambition. You're great.
Speaker 2: It's good to be comfortable, right and accepting, but it's
Speaker 2: also okay to want more. And on her side of it,
Speaker 2: it's like, you know, it's okay to let the world
Speaker 2: touch you.
Speaker 1: Oh interesting, So I don't think what good writing? Oh
Speaker 1: my god, he was really god really good, I know.
Speaker 1: But also like you got the really good stuff, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, like some of the other guys
Speaker 1: didn't get the really good stuff.
Speaker 2: Have no offense, no, I mean every character in the
Speaker 2: story is absolutely yes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's nothing against the actor, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: it's so joy if you grab it. Yes, And did
Speaker 1: you know at the time, like, what were your thoughts
Speaker 1: at the time, did you just think, like, wow, I'm
Speaker 1: so lucky and thankful that I happened to be.
Speaker 2: In this super well, I think, you know, that's one thing.
Speaker 2: I've always been fortunate. I've had a very developed sense
Speaker 2: of gratitude, and so yeah, I knew from the go
Speaker 2: that it was a gift, even if it was for
Speaker 2: you know, you asked earlier. If it had just been
Speaker 2: the short run, it would have been a gift. I
Speaker 2: had no idea that it would continue and expand like that.
Speaker 1: Okay, can we just talk for a second too, because
Speaker 1: you're in both movies. That's so funny somehow not remember
Speaker 1: that though. When I think about Morocco, I remember you there.
Speaker 2: I remember being in Morocco because I got sick.
Speaker 1: And I got sick. Did you know that I got sick?
Speaker 1: I got we got the crazy thing, you guys, it's
Speaker 1: well documented. I don't need to go into detail. What
Speaker 1: can I also tell you? I believe that we got
Speaker 1: it from the sand. And I talked to Dwayne Johnson
Speaker 1: about this because Dwyne Johnson, when he played The Mummy,
Speaker 1: got it and told crazy stories that I totally related
Speaker 1: to about getting the thing that you can get in Morocco,
Speaker 1: which is like montaz was revenge.
Speaker 2: Oh it's worse, It's insane. Yeah, it knocked me antibiotics.
Speaker 1: And I remember you me too. I remember you in
Speaker 1: the car when we had to go from I.
Speaker 2: Guess drive was I got lucky because we went out
Speaker 2: to the golden dunes like on the border.
Speaker 1: Of Algeria, the edge of the Sahara.
Speaker 2: Flown on a plane and then had to drive forever.
Speaker 1: Right, and we were in the same car. You remember
Speaker 1: you were in the front.
Speaker 2: I was starting to melt down, and I got really
Speaker 2: lucky because I didn't have to shoot the first couple
Speaker 2: of days.
Speaker 1: And you disappeared.
Speaker 2: You didn't know where you were.
Speaker 1: I couldn't move right, we didn't know where you were.
Speaker 2: You were, I could move, but I had understand.
Speaker 1: I totally understand this crazy thing happened with you guys.
Speaker 1: It didn't happen to everybody, but it happened no Jason.
Speaker 1: How so wait we flew. We were in Marrakesh before
Speaker 1: we drew drove right, Like, where do you think you got?
Speaker 1: Do you have any plant idea in your mind? Like?
Speaker 1: How did you get it? Were you in the sand
Speaker 1: at all before we drove.
Speaker 2: I'm an adventurous eaters, so I thought, oh, maybe I
Speaker 2: got it because I'm not because I went to the
Speaker 2: markets and I spoke, Yeah, I spoke to the souk. Yeah,
Speaker 2: well I went to the I didn't go to the
Speaker 2: tourist one.
Speaker 1: You didn't go to the tourist one. Okay.
Speaker 2: At the time, like I said, I had pretty good French,
Speaker 2: and so I went to the concierge and I asked, like,
Speaker 2: you know, where should I go? And I could hear
Speaker 2: in the discussion, so I went out to the taxi
Speaker 2: line and I heard them talking, and I basically because
Speaker 2: I didn't let them in on the fact that I
Speaker 2: understood them right, but basically, since I already had a
Speaker 2: destination in mind, I wasn't going to go to the
Speaker 2: place where they'd get their kick back.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it's a whole thing.
Speaker 2: So I got tossed to the low man on the
Speaker 2: totem pole and when I got in his car, I
Speaker 2: was like, hey, look man, I understood everything you guys
Speaker 2: were just talking about. So I'll tell you what how
Speaker 2: much you want for a day rate? And he's like
Speaker 2: and at the time they exchanged it was something like
Speaker 2: one hundred dollars, and I was like, I'll give you
Speaker 2: that for the next four hours if you stop and me.
Speaker 2: I don't want to go where you take all the
Speaker 2: tourists and you go. I want to go where your
Speaker 2: family shops. Wow, I want to go where you have lunch.
Speaker 1: Big time, big time. I mean, okay, So then we
Speaker 1: drive off to the Timbuctoo area right where we filmed.
Speaker 2: This is incredible.
Speaker 1: It was incredible. Do you remember that place we stayed.
Speaker 1: It was like an old fortress, so it was really.
Speaker 2: Neat so beautiful gold dunes really were why.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know.
Speaker 2: I never sleep that well anyway, stays the most incredible
Speaker 2: stars I've ever.
Speaker 1: Seen, Right, I was up on the top of that
Speaker 1: building looking at the stars, like not sleeping at all.
Speaker 1: Had a full meltdown the next day in the in
Speaker 1: the scene which Michael and I discussed, I yelled at
Speaker 1: Michael one of the few times in my life that
Speaker 1: I've yelled at Michael. After this so I don't remember.
Speaker 1: I have to fall off the camel and everything. It
Speaker 1: was really hard, and I hadn't slept, and I was
Speaker 1: just like my mind. Yeah, I was losing my mind,
Speaker 1: and I think I was fighting the thing that I
Speaker 1: ended up getting, but I didn't know it yet, right,
Speaker 1: So I was like off and I got mad at
Speaker 1: him because he never said anything positive when I was
Speaker 1: falling off the camel. I had to fall off over
Speaker 1: and over and over. And he was walking talking because
Speaker 1: he couldn't walk across the sandus tacos, and he kept
Speaker 1: telling Cynthia, who was just sitting there on the camel
Speaker 1: right like we were sharing the camel, she didn't have
Speaker 1: to do anything. And he kept telling her what a
Speaker 1: great job she was doing. And I was like, is
Speaker 1: he ever gonna tell me that I ever ever, never did?
Speaker 1: And yes I did, he said, stomped down the thing.
Speaker 1: And I yelled at him and he said, I don't
Speaker 1: know what he said. He said something that I thought
Speaker 1: was lame. And then I yelled somewhere and then I
Speaker 1: started crying, which I always do or if I get
Speaker 1: that mad. And then I cried all my makeup off,
Speaker 1: and then it was a drama because I made everybody
Speaker 1: wait really bad. It was like the only time I know.
Speaker 1: I mean, also, we're like in the dunes, right, so
Speaker 1: it's a day, you know what I'm saying, It's a day,
Speaker 1: not a day for me to cry my makeup on.
Speaker 2: It happens.
Speaker 1: It was definitely a human say was he I don't
Speaker 1: know what the heck he said? I think she's like,
Speaker 1: what is wrong with you?
Speaker 2: Was he doing? Like? No? Not at the time. Yeah,
Speaker 2: did he have an answer for.
Speaker 1: He never had an answer. I'm sure he was doing something.
Speaker 1: He always had a way.
Speaker 2: You were supposed to be in distress, so maybe maybe Skillet.
Speaker 1: I mean, honestly, I have never gotten to the bottom
Speaker 1: of it. You know what I mean like I brought it,
Speaker 1: brought it up. He brought it up actually, and he
Speaker 1: was like, you know, and you come stopping down, big man,
Speaker 1: big man. I was like, I was big man. I
Speaker 1: really was big man.
Speaker 2: Big man.
Speaker 1: You know, it was it was how I was feeling,
Speaker 1: which is rare, very very rare, and very rare that
Speaker 1: I would as stressful.
Speaker 2: I mean for me it was easy pie because I
Speaker 2: had so little responsibility on that. But you know that
Speaker 2: was I think a stressful thing for him though, too,
Speaker 2: and for you because you know the first one, less
Speaker 2: of the burden was upon him. That one. It was
Speaker 2: all on it, all on him.
Speaker 1: He wrote it, he directed it. It was a big budget,
Speaker 1: the first one, too big deal. No one thought we
Speaker 1: were going to succeed.
Speaker 2: And like you said, practically speaking, that was an exhausting
Speaker 2: journey because it was like two days of travel, different
Speaker 2: time zone, hard conditions. I people think that acting is such.
Speaker 1: A glorious I know, I know, but in some ways
Speaker 1: it really was so incredibly It's.
Speaker 2: An incredible adventure. Yeah, but it can be.
Speaker 1: Like you don't expect, you know what I mean, you
Speaker 1: don't expect, like because you have to when you're acting.
Speaker 1: You know, between action and cut you have to be
Speaker 1: a hundred and ten percent one hundred and fifty percent.
Speaker 1: So if your body isn't with you one hundred percent,
Speaker 1: it's really really hard. It's really really hard, and I
Speaker 1: don't think any of us were. You know, it was
Speaker 1: hard to be one hundred percent, but it was also
Speaker 1: like incredible.
Speaker 2: You mean, in the middle of a desert in the seat.
Speaker 1: It's hard. I exhausted, totally, totally, but it was like,
Speaker 1: I'm just so thank you.
Speaker 2: How many times had you written a camel before?
Speaker 1: I had never written a camel, but I had traveled
Speaker 1: a lot, you know what I mean. I was into
Speaker 1: the travel part with the camel, but we had a
Speaker 1: really sweet camel. But I had to fall off the
Speaker 1: camel and no one spoke English. So I was falling
Speaker 1: off onto this mattress, but no one holding the mattress
Speaker 1: spoke English. They spoke Arabic and French. So remember how
Speaker 1: they would have to give all the directions in all
Speaker 1: the different languages. It was a lot. What did you
Speaker 1: do in the first film, because I can't the films
Speaker 1: are like in a different mind compartment.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was easy because that was in Malibu.
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, of course you were in Malibu. Of course,
Speaker 1: that's great. What did you think of the films? Were
Speaker 1: you like this is incredible or were you like, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm tired of doing this.
Speaker 2: No, not at all. I mean, you know, look again,
Speaker 2: like I said, I'm fortunate that I've always had a
Speaker 2: sense of gratitude, and I think life is richer with one. Yes,
Speaker 2: certainly your joy follows gratitude. I didn't make that up, absolutely,
Speaker 2: and so I've always just been very very appreciative that
Speaker 2: I was included at all, because you didn't have to
Speaker 2: be right. Yeah, again, I truly believe the men were
Speaker 2: spokes to the hub. Like that show was not about
Speaker 2: the relateationships ultimately, it was about the at least the
Speaker 2: romantic relationships. It was about the friendships and the growth
Speaker 2: of the four girls, I think, and so yeah, of course,
Speaker 2: but the but they were, like the outside relationships were
Speaker 2: the crucible through which the development of the individual friendships
Speaker 2: and the women's their characters. Yeah yeah, yeah, And so
Speaker 2: it's not that I'm not saying they were superfluous or
Speaker 2: useless in any way. Yeah, but they were the catalyzers
Speaker 2: for the chemistry.
Speaker 1: Definitely, definitely, And I think you know, I think it's
Speaker 1: at the end of the show where Carrie's voiceover says
Speaker 1: something about how you know, everything is just really about
Speaker 1: your relationship with yourself and learning to love yourself. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: that would have been all like our friendship, but also
Speaker 1: all these other.
Speaker 2: Relationships, and certainly that was her character's challenge, like the
Speaker 2: inability to make that healthy samee choice, you know, like
Speaker 2: let's keep going for mister big exciting, going to burn
Speaker 2: your hand on the stove guy.
Speaker 1: Oh, I know, it's so funny to rewatch mister big Wow.
Speaker 1: Have a lot of strong feelings, but I'm somewhat feeling
Speaker 1: better now because he's now moved to NAPA. When you
Speaker 1: cut you know this group that I watched last night,
Speaker 1: he's in Napa and they have this weird phone sex situation, right,
Speaker 1: did you do you remember this? Because she's dating Burger
Speaker 1: but they so he calls her and he's all like,
Speaker 1: mister smooth, you know how he is, and do you
Speaker 1: remember when we did this? And do you remember when
Speaker 1: we did that? And she's just like, I don't know
Speaker 1: what to do, she says to the girls, and then
Speaker 1: she calls back and she says, hey, you know we
Speaker 1: need to just be friends and not do that because
Speaker 1: I'm seeing someone know, and it just got serious, and
Speaker 1: she's very mature in that moment, I'm like, oh, thank god, Carrie,
Speaker 1: thank god. And then he you can see that he's hurt,
Speaker 1: like he he's developed. Also, we don't get to see
Speaker 1: his development, right, we just see how all.
Speaker 2: The characters written with a sense of that it's true.
Speaker 1: And I also think, like when I look at the
Speaker 1: writing and then I look at what Chris was doing,
Speaker 1: he was bringing depth to it. Also. I mean I'm
Speaker 1: sure Michael Patrick wanted that right or wouldn't be there,
Speaker 1: you know, but like he's bringing it and you're like, oh,
Speaker 1: thank god, mister Big is like a little bit better now, yes,
Speaker 1: you know, because we have a future that we need to,
Speaker 1: you know whatever, invest in you know, with them. But
Speaker 1: it's it's it's interesting because it was a different time,
Speaker 1: as you've said a few different different times, and like
Speaker 1: in terms of being a man back then, right, a
Speaker 1: man who's out and about, you're traveling the world, you're
Speaker 1: in New York. Do you remember how different dating was?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you know, our generation grew up with
Speaker 2: some of the just stupidest stereotypical ideas of how we
Speaker 2: are supposed to behave. You know, boys don't cry there.
Speaker 2: You know, these white knights shanning armor and they go
Speaker 2: in to save women. Like what an insult to women?
Speaker 2: I agree, But then you'd find a lot of that.
Speaker 2: I always struggled with dating because you know, I never
Speaker 2: really was a player because of these weird stereotypes. Abstainly, look,
Speaker 2: I'm certainly not going to pretend that Jason Young, Jason, I.
Speaker 1: Remember this funny, funny moment where I saw you at
Speaker 1: a party. Do you remember this. I don't know, it's funny,
Speaker 1: it's good. I saw you at a party, probably like
Speaker 1: an Oscar party type of a thing, one of those
Speaker 1: big ones, right, and I was so happy to see
Speaker 1: it wasn't I don't think it was that long. I
Speaker 1: think the show was over. I don't think it was
Speaker 1: a long time. Maybe the movies were happening, I don't know.
Speaker 1: And we were just chatting high, you know whatever. I
Speaker 1: hadn't seen you in a bit, and we were like
Speaker 1: walking somewhere and you were like, oh no, And I
Speaker 1: said what you were like.
Speaker 2: Just keep walking with me, And I was like okay.
Speaker 1: You were like to the right to the right, and
Speaker 1: I was like, what what's going on? You were like
Speaker 1: avoiding fording xes, avoiding excess to the left. I was like,
Speaker 1: we're just in a minefield of exus. Now, I'm just
Speaker 1: gonna be with Jason. I'm just going to be here
Speaker 1: for Jason. So, I mean, there.
Speaker 2: Seem to be aist history.
Speaker 1: Maybe possibly just a little And I was like, whoa,
Speaker 1: he's busy. And there were some lovely ladies I might add, yes,
Speaker 1: oh yes, I'm sure you know who I'm talking about.
Speaker 2: We're not going to bring that.
Speaker 1: I'm not going to say any names, of course, I
Speaker 1: don't do that on this podcast. But I was like, wow,
Speaker 1: I'm behind on what's going on, but I want to
Speaker 1: protect Jason. Thank you. I'm there for you, you know, Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: appreciate it.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, look, I think that if anything, that's
Speaker 2: one of the things I really like seeing what's happening
Speaker 2: with the younger generations now, is there's more resources. Again,
Speaker 2: you look at the writing of Sex and the City.
Speaker 2: These things were being brought up in the public conversation
Speaker 2: for the first time. Yeah, you know, people didn't talk
Speaker 2: is freely and openly about emotions or relationship dynamics or
Speaker 2: have the research. Yes, sex, yeah, I mean what do
Speaker 2: we have. We had doctor Ruth.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, yeah, I mean bless her heart. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but she's yeah, so adorableable.
Speaker 2: But you know, it was like there wasn't a lot
Speaker 2: of comfort for growth and conversation. And you know, again
Speaker 2: something that that show gave gave a lot of conversation
Speaker 2: at a lot of conversations. And also I think for men,
Speaker 2: you know, that's one of the things that I've definitely
Speaker 2: been surprised over the years. And it's funny because oftentimes
Speaker 2: it'll be couch with my girlfriend made me watch it,
Speaker 2: or my wife made me watch it. Yes, but a
Speaker 2: lot of men resonated with that's nice.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love it. Thank you, Jason. Than being with us,
Speaker 1: that was fun, fun, fun,