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Speaker 1: Hey, y'all, Eve's here. I know you're ready to get

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Speaker 1: into this episode, but really quick. We have been loving

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Speaker 1: connecting with y'all over black storytelling, and if you've really

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Speaker 1: been loving the show, then we would really appreciate it

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Speaker 1: if you would leave us a rating and review, subscribe

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Speaker 1: to the show, and share it with your friends. Thanks y'all.

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Speaker 1: Now time for the episode. On theme is a production

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Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio and fair Weather Friends Media. Okay, Katie, close

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Speaker 1: your eyes. I want you to put yourself back in

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Speaker 1: eighteen forty five of what.

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Speaker 2: I know. But stay with me. Okay. Right, You're in Natchez, Mississippi.

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Speaker 1: So you're right on the Mississippi River and it's the

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Speaker 1: dead middle of summer, so you're practically melting. The smell

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Speaker 1: of hot grass is floating in the air. The bugs

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Speaker 1: are out and about, and the air is still like

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Speaker 1: not a breezeen site.

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Speaker 3: You are making me a cheat, I know.

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Speaker 1: And to add insult to injury, you're on the Mailrose Plantation. Well,

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Speaker 1: to be specific, you're in the dining room of the

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Speaker 1: main house.

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Speaker 2: You're enslavers.

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Speaker 1: The hert sogs are having lunch with a few visitors.

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Speaker 1: They're laughing sharing stories, and your friends, who are also enslaved,

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Speaker 1: are entering the dining room. Occasionally they're dressed up in

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Speaker 1: fancy clothes and they're serving the visitors, and you're enslavers

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Speaker 1: elaborate meals. You know, the hert sogs have to show

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Speaker 1: off how wealthy and uppity they are to their esteemed guests.

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Speaker 3: Okay, okay, hurts ofs go off.

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Speaker 1: So they're stuffing their faces to their hearts content. But you,

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Speaker 1: on the other hand, you can feel hunger rising from

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Speaker 1: the pit of your stomach, and like your friends, you

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Speaker 1: are working. You're operating the punka, which is a large

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Speaker 1: ornate wooden fan that hangs from the ceiling in the

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Speaker 1: middle of the room, and you're sweating as you use

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Speaker 1: both hands to pull the cord to the punka, but

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Speaker 1: you have no choice. The fan swings back and forth,

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Speaker 1: keeping the dinner guests cool and keeping flies away from

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Speaker 1: the food. You're struggling, okay, but nobody's paying you any

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Speaker 1: attention anyway. It's a task that makes you miserable. But

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Speaker 1: there is one upside. You get to hear everything. The

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Speaker 1: happy chatty diners are saying, I'm Katie and I'm Eves

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Speaker 1: today's episode minding their business, So being nosy can be

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Speaker 1: frowned upon. Sometimes being a nosy neighbor is not seen

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Speaker 1: as a good thing. Black folks say they like to

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Speaker 1: mind their business and don't want others and theirs. But

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Speaker 1: you know, sometimes it campaign to be intensely observant, you

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Speaker 1: know what I'm saying.

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Speaker 3: But you know I keep my ears to the streets.

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Speaker 2: Do you are you a nosy person?

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Speaker 1: Girl?

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Speaker 3: If you look up nosy picture right there, there's me

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Speaker 3: first definition.

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Speaker 1: So why do you hold being nosy in such high esteem?

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Speaker 3: Seemingly well, I feel like when you're really observant, you

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Speaker 3: be peeping shit like way before other people keep it

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Speaker 3: like people peep it, but they people too late. And

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Speaker 3: you're like, I been dow that, I've been knew that

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Speaker 3: by him. You're not surpriseding me. You think you got

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Speaker 3: some tea. This is some cold tea.

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Speaker 2: You're like, I already knew because I've been watching it.

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Speaker 3: I've been watching it. I just been you know. Oh,

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Speaker 3: you might not say nothing at first, but you just

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Speaker 3: keep it in your back pocket for a rainy day.

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Speaker 2: I feel you. So, do you remember those punka fans

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Speaker 2: we talked about.

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Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, you just had me operating them, sweetie fair.

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Speaker 1: Okay, sorry I had to take you there. But those

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Speaker 1: were installed in some Antebellum plantation homes in the South

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Speaker 1: in the eighteen hundreds. Were they a common thing, Well,

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Speaker 1: punkahs weren't in every home, but they weren't in many

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Speaker 1: upper class white homes. People had to be able to

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Speaker 1: afford them to have them made, and because they had

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Speaker 1: to be manually operated, they had to have enough slaves

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Speaker 1: to be able to put someone on that very specific

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Speaker 1: tedious task.

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Speaker 3: So having a punkah and having someone to operate it

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Speaker 3: could be like a status symbol of sorts.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, and even more than that, it was an

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Speaker 1: ostentatious display of wealth. In some instances, the person operating

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Speaker 1: the fan would be in a back room, hidden away

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Speaker 1: from the visitors who were there. The visitors would get

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Speaker 1: their air and enjoy their meal without being burdened by

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Speaker 1: having to see the slave working while they ate because

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Speaker 1: God forbid. Okay, But most of the time with punkas,

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Speaker 1: the slaves were right there in plain sight.

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Speaker 2: On purpose.

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Speaker 1: Enslavers wanted their guests to see the kinds of luxuries

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Speaker 1: that they could afford. They wanted to draw attention to

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Speaker 1: their custom punkahs and their frivolous use of laborers. But

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Speaker 1: the silver lining to this grueling job was proximity. Enslaved

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Speaker 1: people would have access to the conversations that white folks

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Speaker 1: were having over their meals.

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Speaker 2: That meant that.

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Speaker 1: Slaves could reflect that surveillance and exploitation that the elites

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Speaker 1: had subjected them to.

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Speaker 3: So they took advantage of a bad situation with a

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Speaker 3: little espionage, a little intelligence gathering, if you will.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And they did this in a couple of ways.

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Speaker 1: They used that time to gain insight on how the

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Speaker 1: elite moved, spoke, and behaved. So, like you were talking

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Speaker 1: about being nosy, you get a little extra information and

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Speaker 1: you can use it in your favor.

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Speaker 2: They did that.

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Speaker 1: But when the conversations got a little bit more interesting,

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Speaker 1: slaves could pick up on information about events happening in

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Speaker 1: their communities and around the world. Doctor Dana E. Bird

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Speaker 1: talks about this in her twenty sixteen essay Mode of Power, Fans, Punkahs,

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Speaker 1: and fly Brushes in the Antebellum South. In the essay,

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Speaker 1: she points to a quote from Booker T. Washington's in

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Speaker 1: nineteen oh one autobiography, when I had grown to sufficient size.

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Speaker 1: I was required to go to the Big House at

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Speaker 1: meal times to fan the flies from the table by

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Speaker 1: means of a large set of paper fans operated by

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Speaker 1: a pulley. Naturally, much of the conversation of white people

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Speaker 1: turned upon the subject of freedom and the war, and

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Speaker 1: I absorbed a.

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Speaker 2: Good deal of it.

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Speaker 1: Washington doesn't talk about what he learned or what he

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Speaker 1: did with the information, but this shows that he did

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Speaker 1: retain information that he gathered while working the fans. Punkahs

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Speaker 1: were away in so while the white folks were care

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Speaker 1: free and loose with information, slaves were attentive in steadfast

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Speaker 1: about taking what they needed from the situation.

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Speaker 3: I'm really intrigued by the foolishness of white people, Like

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Speaker 3: I don't know, it's it's not like you like trusted

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Speaker 3: the people you're enslaving, But maybe you just thought they

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Speaker 3: were like so dumb or just like so loyal to

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Speaker 3: you or something. I don't know. Like me, if I'm

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Speaker 3: oppressing somebody all day, every day, twenty four or seven,

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Speaker 3: why I'm not gonna have them cooking my food, right,

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Speaker 3: And I'm not going to have them sit there while

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Speaker 3: I'm just talking, you know. But they did, and they

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Speaker 3: saw it as a flex I'm very intrigued by that,

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Speaker 3: like what was going on in that head? But I mean,

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Speaker 3: you have to be like sick in the head to

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Speaker 3: even enslaved people. So maybe it's just like, yeah, it's normal.

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Speaker 3: I guess yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think they saw that people were still being enslaved,

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Speaker 1: they saw that slavery was still a very widespread practice,

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Speaker 1: and they were like, this is working. So I guess

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Speaker 1: I have complete and total control over their minds. I'm

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Speaker 1: controlling everything they do on a every day basis. So

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Speaker 1: I guess there are still people to this day who

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Speaker 1: think that people enjoyed their slavery, like they were happy

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Speaker 1: be to be enslaved.

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Speaker 3: Giving them meals and.

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Speaker 2: Right, they were fine, they weren't.

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Speaker 1: They exaggerate all of these instances of a severe torture

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Speaker 1: that they're showing and trying to depict in like movies

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Speaker 1: and the expressions of slavery today. So I would imagine

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Speaker 1: that back then too, that was amplified even more so.

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Speaker 1: The cognitive dissonance that was happening for them was probably

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Speaker 1: very strong, sure, and had to exist for them to

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Speaker 1: keep enslaving people in the first place and doing things

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Speaker 1: like cooking, letting them cook for them. So I don't know, girl,

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Speaker 1: do I even want to dig that deeply into that

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Speaker 1: kind of psyche?

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Speaker 3: Do we want to do that I already had to

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Speaker 3: put maybe someone else that's their ministry. Maybe so.

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Speaker 1: But I also think it's like fascinating, and doctor Bird

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Speaker 1: talks about this and her work just how there was

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Speaker 1: so much to this thing that was just an architectural

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Speaker 1: future of the home. Like there's class implications of it

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Speaker 1: from simply the white elite standpoint, because it's not like.

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Speaker 2: All white people had it.

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Speaker 1: I mean there were also class implications and quote unquote

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Speaker 1: owning slaves too, so that was part a factor in it.

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Speaker 1: But there's this separate history of the punkahs themselves being

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Speaker 1: constructed in different ways based on what somebody's class was.

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Speaker 1: So sometimes people would use this really nice, expensive mahogany

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Speaker 1: wood and sometimes they would use wallpaper, for instance, to

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Speaker 1: create these kinds of fans. So even the fans themselves

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Speaker 1: were able to symbolize different levels of wealth and class status.

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Speaker 1: On top of the fact of like what kind of

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Speaker 1: presence the slave had there, Like was it enslave person

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Speaker 1: in the room with them, or were they not in

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Speaker 1: the room with them. And also there were people who

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Speaker 1: acted as fans. So there's a layer of remove when

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Speaker 1: you're thinking about the punk of fans, because there is

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Speaker 1: a human who has to pull the cord there to

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Speaker 1: make the fan move. But then there were other people

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Speaker 1: who used large feathers to just fan over the food

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Speaker 1: when people didn't have punka fans, and that person would

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Speaker 1: sit in a swing above the table, taking that feather

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Speaker 1: and moving it back and forth in order to keep

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Speaker 1: the flies away from the food.

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Speaker 3: Is that what Berker T Washington was referred to or

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Speaker 3: was he doing the punk of fans?

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Speaker 1: I think he was doing the punk of fans by

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Speaker 1: the way that he described it. Operated by a pulley. Yes,

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Speaker 1: operated by a pulley, and that's what they were. There

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Speaker 1: were police, there were different kinds of pulleys. Sometimes they

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Speaker 1: were chained. Sometimes there were records. If you look at

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Speaker 1: the pictures and the descriptions which slave narratives, there are

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Speaker 1: descriptions of punkahs and of people doing the fanning. And

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Speaker 1: there was one slave narrative. I can't remember who the

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Speaker 1: enslaved person was who told this narrative. I'm sure it

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Speaker 1: was a common occurrence. They were talking about how when

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Speaker 1: they would use these large feather fans. What he said

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Speaker 1: in the narrative was like, if I wasn't minding my business,

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Speaker 1: then this large feather that I was fanning over the

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Speaker 1: people might end up dipping into their food.

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Speaker 2: If I was like falling asleep, or.

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Speaker 1: I wasn't being attentive enough, if I wasn't minding my business,

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Speaker 1: then they would be like, what you're doing, Yeah, get

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Speaker 1: on your job.

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Speaker 3: I'm sure they wouldn't say it that nicely.

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Speaker 2: No, absolutely not.

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Speaker 1: So we know that covert communication was one way that

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Speaker 1: enslaved people planned escapes and resistance efforts. Written and verbal

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Speaker 1: communication were encrypted. One kind of covert communication that many

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Speaker 1: people are probably familiar with is song. A song's tempo

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Speaker 1: and lyrics could have hidden meanings, providing refugee slaves with

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Speaker 1: instructions as they made their way to freedom. For instance,

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Speaker 1: runaways traveling on the underground railroad were called passengers, and

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Speaker 1: safe houses were called stations, and sometimes enslaved people opted

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Speaker 1: to change the language all together. For example, people could

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Speaker 1: speak Creole with one another and pass along important information

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Speaker 1: right under enslaver's noses. Messages were also hidden in quilts

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Speaker 1: and in riddles, and of course spying was one way

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Speaker 1: that black folks gathered valuable intail. So think of Harriet Tubman. Okay,

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Speaker 1: we've heard of Harriet Tubman, the spy. We know that

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Speaker 1: that's one thing that she did. She got information from

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Speaker 1: enslaved people about Confederate maneuvers, and then she took that

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Speaker 1: intelligence to union forces. And that begs the question, how

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Speaker 1: did those enslaved people get that information easdrop it?

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Speaker 2: Yes, so it's not.

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Speaker 1: Like Confederate soldiers were sharing this information with slaves intentionally

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Speaker 1: and freely. Enslaved people were just present and they were listening.

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Speaker 1: Evesdropping was such a simple form of resistance, but it

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Speaker 1: was powerful and subversive. White folks desire to keep their

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Speaker 1: servants close could end up being the reason for their downfall.

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Speaker 1: Even when they were quiet, Enslaved people were not just

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Speaker 1: silent and submissive. Evesdropping was a form of indirect resistance.

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Speaker 1: The enslaved people and the enslavers still went about their

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Speaker 1: day to day big business in the meantime. The work

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Speaker 1: didn't topple the institution of slavery, but slaves shared the

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Speaker 1: information that they gleaned while they worked, and this could

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Speaker 1: help make their lives easier under the horrible and oppressive circumstances.

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Speaker 1: It could also just help keep them more informed. So

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Speaker 1: did the enslavers just have loose lips? You would think

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Speaker 1: they would try to make sure our folks wasn't getting

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Speaker 1: their sensitive information. They did try to guard information a

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Speaker 1: lot of the time. They were careful about how much

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Speaker 1: they said around their slaves. But imagine how isolated enslaved

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Speaker 1: people were on plantations. It was hard for them to

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Speaker 1: learn what was going on outside the very small bubble

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Speaker 1: they were given access to, so they were motivated to

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Speaker 1: get news about their communities and the world beyond. In

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Speaker 1: an interview for the Federal Writers Project of the Works

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Speaker 1: Progress Administration, a former slave named Benjamin Russell said the following,

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Speaker 1: how did we get news? Many plantations were strict about this,

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Speaker 1: But the greater the precaution, the alerter became the slaves,

254
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Speaker 1: the wider they opened their ears, and the more eager

255
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Speaker 1: they became for outside information. The sources were girls that

256
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Speaker 1: waited on the tables, the ladies, maids, and the drivers.

257
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Speaker 1: They would pick up everything they heard and pass it

258
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Speaker 1: on to the other slaves. News already took a while

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Speaker 1: to travel for free folks, so it could be really

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Speaker 1: delayed in getting to enslaved people, if it ever did

261
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Speaker 1: at all. This was the case with news about the

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Speaker 1: Civil War. Many enslaved people couldn't read and had to

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Speaker 1: get news about the war through word of mouth. A

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Speaker 1: lot of enslavers didn't want them talking about the war

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Speaker 1: in the first place, and if they did share news,

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Speaker 1: it was actually propaganda.

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Speaker 3: But the outcome of the Civil War would determine the

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Speaker 3: course of their lives, so slaves had to be eager

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Speaker 3: to get the real facts, and.

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Speaker 2: They were so.

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Speaker 1: Some of the people who were around for their enslavers'

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Speaker 1: private conversations kept their ears open when they were in

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Speaker 1: the Big House and on the plantation grounds. Here's what

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Speaker 1: a former slave named Elizabeth Russell said. I was very

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Speaker 1: small at the time of the Civil War, yet I

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Speaker 1: served my people as a secret service agent. I was

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Speaker 1: kept in the Big House during the day to rock

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Speaker 1: and attend the babies, and I would often pretend to

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Speaker 1: be asleep and hear the folk at the Big House

280
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Speaker 1: were saying about the battles and which side was winning

281
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Speaker 1: or losing. And when the word came that the North

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Speaker 1: had won and the slaves were free. It was I

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Speaker 1: who carried the word to the hundreds of slaves in

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Speaker 1: our section, having crawled to my mother's cabin to give

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Speaker 1: the news. And though only a little child, God used

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Speaker 1: me as a bearer of good news to my people.

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Speaker 3: That's a word. She had a testimony. She did.

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Speaker 2: She had a testimony.

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Speaker 1: And it was often the case that it was women

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Speaker 1: who ended up in these roles of being the people

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Speaker 1: who were around for conversations because of the kinds of

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Speaker 1: jobs that they were doing that they were in these

293
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Speaker 1: more I guess, intimate roles where they're around for us.

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Speaker 1: These conversations that were supposed to just be between two

295
00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:05,240
Speaker 1: people are supposed to be smaller conversations, and they were

296
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Speaker 1: able to listen. They were in these servant roles where

297
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Speaker 1: they could linger a little longer and it wouldn't look

298
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Speaker 1: suspicious or even pretend to be sleep exactly. You know,

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Speaker 1: they love to use that as a plot point in

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Speaker 1: a movie or a TV show. Have one eye open.

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Speaker 3: Also, I feel like Elizabeth quote really kind of dispelled

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Speaker 3: the notion that there was like beef between the house

303
00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:32,760
Speaker 3: slaves and the field slaves, and house slaves thought they

304
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Speaker 3: were so much better and were really in allegiance with

305
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Speaker 3: white people because maybe they was half white or whatever,

306
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Speaker 3: like they were getting the intel and tipping back out

307
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Speaker 3: and telling everybody what was going on.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: She also talks about how young she was and how

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Speaker 1: she was already thinking about the ways that she could

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Speaker 1: offer resistance in the ways that was available to her.

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Speaker 1: And I think that is one of the things about eavesdropping,

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Speaker 1: is how democratized it could be. You know, no matter

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Speaker 1: how young you are. Yeah, everybody knows.

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Speaker 3: Probably the younger you are, the more things people say

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Speaker 3: around you, because I think you don't understand.

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Speaker 1: Probably so, And I do wonder how you know, somebody

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Speaker 1: might be more want to trust a woman in terms of,

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Speaker 1: like today committing a crime, like you wouldn't necessarily suspect

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Speaker 1: somebody of some sort of a woman of a violent crime,

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Speaker 1: so it's easier for them to get away with it

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Speaker 1: if it was like that in a gendered way when

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Speaker 1: it came to eavesdropping as well, I don't know. And

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Speaker 1: so there was also the fact that a lot of

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Speaker 1: enslaved people couldn't read and they couldn't write, but there

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Speaker 1: was information that was being passed along through written notes.

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Speaker 1: A lot of the time so sometimes what would happen

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Speaker 1: is they would gather info. Even though they couldn't read

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Speaker 1: the info that was written, they would still, like when

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Speaker 1: somebody was writing, when they were talking about it, they

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Speaker 1: could pick up on info about that note in that

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Speaker 1: moment or when it was being read to the person

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Speaker 1: who picked up that note. So they found ways around

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Speaker 1: their inability to read and are write. And because the

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00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:07,280
Speaker 1: enslavers knew that enslaved people couldn't read or write, they

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00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:09,960
Speaker 1: would try to find their own ways around that through

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00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:14,280
Speaker 1: covert messaging, so that when the enslavers were mindful, like hey,

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Speaker 1: I don't want the slaves to hear this, they would

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00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:19,920
Speaker 1: sometimes try to do things like spell out the messages

340
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Speaker 1: that they were giving people, like physically spell letter by

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00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:25,520
Speaker 1: letter what they were saying, and they'll be like, oh,

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Speaker 1: you know, the slave isn't going to understand that they

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Speaker 1: can't write, they don't understand how to spell. But then

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00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:32,760
Speaker 1: they would remember what they spelled and take it to

345
00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:36,520
Speaker 1: somebody else who could translate that for them, right, so

346
00:18:36,560 --> 00:18:39,040
Speaker 1: they could still understand the message and pass it along

347
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Speaker 1: if they wanted to.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what you doing a little kids.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And they probably be looking at you like, I

350
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Speaker 1: know what you're doing. I'd also think that makes it

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Speaker 1: more clear that whatever you're saying is something that I

352
00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:52,120
Speaker 1: need to.

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Speaker 3: Know, right, Because if you would have just said it

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Speaker 3: and kind of like it wasn't a big deal, maybe

355
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Speaker 3: I wouldn't have picked up on it. But now you

356
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Speaker 3: spell and stuff, right, I'm a peep.

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Speaker 2: Right now, I know something's going on.

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Speaker 1: More on eavesdropping after the break the Civil War was

359
00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:17,679
Speaker 1: a critical point for black people. Their futures in the

360
00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:20,680
Speaker 1: United States hung in the balance, so it makes sense

361
00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:24,359
Speaker 1: that black folks employed eavesdropping as a strategy for survival.

362
00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:28,680
Speaker 1: But in general, these oral and oral networks that enslaved

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00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:33,159
Speaker 1: people relied on were crucial communication lines. The intelligence that

364
00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:37,160
Speaker 1: people gathered through evesdropping was funneled right into these networks,

365
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Speaker 1: and this made important information accessible to a population of

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Speaker 1: people who could not read but were orally literate.

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Speaker 3: In a way, it seems like slaves weaponized a simple

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00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:49,040
Speaker 3: act of flicity.

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Speaker 1: I think that's a good way to put it, because

370
00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:56,040
Speaker 1: they turned an unassuming act into a tool of resistance

371
00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:57,480
Speaker 1: and up from slavery.

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Speaker 2: Booker T.

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Speaker 1: Washington refers to the network that black folks used to

374
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Speaker 1: stay informed as the grapevine telegraph, and he talks about

375
00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:08,600
Speaker 1: how powerful it was and how it could work so

376
00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:11,680
Speaker 1: fast that slaves knew the results of battles before white

377
00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:15,080
Speaker 1: people did. In a story he tells, Washington talks about

378
00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:17,399
Speaker 1: how a black man was sent to the post office

379
00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:20,200
Speaker 1: a few miles away from the plantation once or twice

380
00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:20,639
Speaker 1: a week.

381
00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:22,400
Speaker 2: The man who was sent to the.

382
00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:25,040
Speaker 1: Office would linger about the place long enough to get

383
00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:27,880
Speaker 1: the drift of the conversation from the group of white

384
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Speaker 1: people who naturally congregated there after receiving their mail to

385
00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:35,720
Speaker 1: discuss the latest news. The mail carrier, on his way

386
00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:39,159
Speaker 1: back to our master's house would as naturally retail the

387
00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:42,000
Speaker 1: news that he had secured among the slaves, and in

388
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Speaker 1: this way they often heard of important events before the

389
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Speaker 1: white people at the Big House, as the master's house

390
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Speaker 1: was called.

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Speaker 3: It seems like a fool proof method of knowledge sharing.

392
00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:54,720
Speaker 3: I know there was some risk involved, but I'd acted eavesdrop.

393
00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:57,640
Speaker 3: It was a part of daily life. Yeah, black folks

394
00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:01,560
Speaker 3: had to find ways to educate them. White folks were

395
00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:06,159
Speaker 3: constantly trying to find ways to restrict and falsify information

396
00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:09,840
Speaker 3: to keep black people ignorant. But like if you can't

397
00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:13,160
Speaker 3: read or write and your enslavers aren't telling you anything,

398
00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:14,600
Speaker 3: what are your options?

399
00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:18,959
Speaker 1: Okay, yes, let me tell you about John Quincy Adams.

400
00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:21,720
Speaker 1: And no, I'm not talking about the president. I'm talking

401
00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:24,879
Speaker 1: about a man who was enslaved in Virginia and escaped

402
00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:28,119
Speaker 1: slavery during the Civil War. He wrote about his life

403
00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:30,640
Speaker 1: in a book that was published in eighteen seventy two.

404
00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:34,760
Speaker 1: John couldn't read and write when he was young, but

405
00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:37,640
Speaker 1: when he heard white folks saying they didn't want black

406
00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:40,560
Speaker 1: people to learn to read and write, he figured it

407
00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:44,160
Speaker 1: must be worth learning. He would linger when he heard

408
00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:47,600
Speaker 1: someone reading, and when they asked him what he was doing,

409
00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:51,359
Speaker 1: he would say nothing. But of course he would relay

410
00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:54,639
Speaker 1: what he learned to his parents. And since eavesdropping was

411
00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:57,720
Speaker 1: a resistance tactic that everybody had the means to do,

412
00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:01,360
Speaker 1: his mom and dad told him, try to hear all

413
00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:06,359
Speaker 1: you can, but don't let them know it. So the

414
00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:09,200
Speaker 1: thing that I love about evesdropping is it feels like

415
00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:12,440
Speaker 1: a game of telephone, where one person learns a thing

416
00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:14,800
Speaker 1: and then it's able. Not telephone in the instance is

417
00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:17,000
Speaker 1: where the message gets changed, but just in the instance

418
00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:19,800
Speaker 1: in which you can pass information along from one person

419
00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:21,240
Speaker 1: into the next and to the next, and then it

420
00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:23,879
Speaker 1: becomes something that everybody knows, something.

421
00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:24,760
Speaker 2: That everybody is aware of.

422
00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:28,440
Speaker 1: And it can be for very small, menial things that

423
00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:31,520
Speaker 1: just make life a little bit better or make people

424
00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:34,080
Speaker 1: more informed, or it can be for these bigger things.

425
00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:35,120
Speaker 2: It's about the Civil War.

426
00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:37,159
Speaker 1: A lot of the instances that I could find of

427
00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:39,960
Speaker 1: eavesdropping is where people were talking about what news got

428
00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:43,880
Speaker 1: passed on of the Civil War. So obviously this act

429
00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:47,680
Speaker 1: of eavesdropping would be amplified in a time of such

430
00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:51,159
Speaker 1: heavy conflict that would impact everybody's lives in such a

431
00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:53,600
Speaker 1: big way. I think when we think about June teenth,

432
00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:56,199
Speaker 1: we think about how long it took for news to

433
00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:59,600
Speaker 1: get to Texas, And this is part of the conversation

434
00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:02,159
Speaker 1: that every body has when we talk about Juneteenth. But

435
00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:07,600
Speaker 1: that was one of a million, billion, trillion instances of

436
00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:11,960
Speaker 1: news getting to enslave people slowly that happened so many

437
00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:15,720
Speaker 1: times before then, and and things not related to the

438
00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:19,879
Speaker 1: Civil War or to emancipation, And it just feels like

439
00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:23,440
Speaker 1: there's a level of control and power that enslaved people

440
00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:25,480
Speaker 1: were able to take back in a way that that

441
00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:28,199
Speaker 1: was available to them. They were orally literate, so they

442
00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:30,040
Speaker 1: use what they could. They were like, I can't read

443
00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:31,639
Speaker 1: and I can't write, but I know the things that

444
00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:33,199
Speaker 1: I do have, and I know the power that I

445
00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:35,560
Speaker 1: do have, And they took that into their own hands.

446
00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:38,280
Speaker 1: They capitalized on that to be able to make their

447
00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:38,920
Speaker 1: lives better.

448
00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:41,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I imagine on the flip side, since they

449
00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:45,640
Speaker 3: were so versed in eavesdropping, they made sure like if

450
00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:48,560
Speaker 3: an overseer was around, or even if like the white

451
00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:50,439
Speaker 3: little kids playing with the black little kids when they

452
00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:52,920
Speaker 3: were allowed to still play with each other, they knew like, okay,

453
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:54,560
Speaker 3: how we be eas dropping on them. Let's make sure

454
00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:56,959
Speaker 3: we don't say nothing around them that they could use

455
00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:57,760
Speaker 3: against us.

456
00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:00,520
Speaker 1: Right right, And that's where the acts of covert communication

457
00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:02,680
Speaker 1: and language comes in. They were like, I'm gonna learn

458
00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:04,360
Speaker 1: from the fact that these people are saying too much

459
00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:06,520
Speaker 1: around me, like I know what I don't need to

460
00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:10,080
Speaker 1: be saying around them. And the irony in that is that, like,

461
00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:14,600
Speaker 1: you know, enslaved people could speak the same language as them,

462
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:17,040
Speaker 1: but we were able to form our own languages at

463
00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:18,720
Speaker 1: the same time that they couldn't understand.

464
00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:22,040
Speaker 3: After they took away their original languages, right.

465
00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:27,240
Speaker 1: So I think that it just seems like such a

466
00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:31,600
Speaker 1: small act that compounded over time because so many different

467
00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:34,359
Speaker 1: people were doing it in purposes that even though it

468
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:38,359
Speaker 1: wasn't something that like immediately emancipated them, or it wasn't

469
00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:42,760
Speaker 1: something that necessarily killed their enslavers, it wasn't those kinds

470
00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:45,040
Speaker 1: of acts. But there are places for all these kinds

471
00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:47,120
Speaker 1: of acts, for the indirect action, for the direct action

472
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:50,480
Speaker 1: that was happening. Eavesdropping didn't exist in a vacuum. It

473
00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:52,920
Speaker 1: wasn't in its own container. There were other people who

474
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:55,840
Speaker 1: were taking up arms, and there were other people who

475
00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:57,880
Speaker 1: were forming rebellions.

476
00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:01,080
Speaker 2: There were people who were maroons. They were all different.

477
00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:04,720
Speaker 1: Kinds poisoning people exactly. And there were all these other

478
00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:08,800
Speaker 1: indirect tactics as well, like when the enslaved people would

479
00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:12,080
Speaker 1: pit enslavers against one another, kind of like you know

480
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:16,960
Speaker 1: reality TV conflict of making people distrustful of other people,

481
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:21,240
Speaker 1: are implanting false information with people to invite more conflict

482
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:24,040
Speaker 1: into the situation. There were all kinds of smaller things

483
00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:26,280
Speaker 1: that happen on a day to day basis. Of course,

484
00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:28,720
Speaker 1: it was still a horrible situation. They were still enslaved,

485
00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:32,240
Speaker 1: but ameliorate some of the suffering that they were enduring.

486
00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:38,240
Speaker 3: Now it is time for roll credits, the segment where

487
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:41,480
Speaker 3: we give credit to a person, place, or think eves

488
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:43,040
Speaker 3: who are what would you like to give credit to?

489
00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:46,920
Speaker 1: I would like to give credit to honeysuckle this week

490
00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:49,439
Speaker 1: because I have been seeing and smelling a lot of

491
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:52,640
Speaker 1: honeysuckle around and there is some that is growing very

492
00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:55,159
Speaker 1: close to where I live, and I plan on going

493
00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:56,359
Speaker 1: and gathering some.

494
00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:57,720
Speaker 2: And then making some tea with it.

495
00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:00,359
Speaker 1: But I just have fond memories of honeysuckle because I

496
00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:02,040
Speaker 1: used to just eat it off the bush when I

497
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:05,719
Speaker 1: was young, and we had some in our neighborhood, and

498
00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:07,800
Speaker 1: my sister and I would take some off the bush

499
00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:11,199
Speaker 1: and we would eat it, and there's nostalgia that's associated

500
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:11,600
Speaker 1: with it.

501
00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:13,919
Speaker 2: To me, what do you give credit to today?

502
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:17,119
Speaker 3: I would like to give credit to being influenced. I

503
00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:20,280
Speaker 3: feel like everyone be like I'm above the influence. I'm

504
00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:23,320
Speaker 3: impervious to advertisements and everything else. But I think it's

505
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:25,520
Speaker 3: nice when you're like influenced to do something nice that

506
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:28,520
Speaker 3: you really wasn't gonna do. I met this lady and

507
00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:31,360
Speaker 3: she had hit me up really out of the blue, like, oh,

508
00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:33,520
Speaker 3: I have some bugs, Like, can you take them from

509
00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:35,119
Speaker 3: my house? A older woman. So I went to her

510
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:36,639
Speaker 3: house and I was just like, oh, I like your

511
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:39,919
Speaker 3: plant and she's like thanks, and it was a big plant.

512
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:42,960
Speaker 3: And when I was living, She's like, oh, here take this,

513
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:44,879
Speaker 3: and it was like she's giving me this big plant

514
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:46,440
Speaker 3: that like if you bought a food story, it'd be

515
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:49,800
Speaker 3: like hundreds of dollars. And I was like, what's that's crazy?

516
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:52,040
Speaker 3: But I was like, oh yeah, like I should do

517
00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:54,679
Speaker 3: that when people like show interest in plants, like I

518
00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:56,639
Speaker 3: have a lot of plants, like more than I need,

519
00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:59,720
Speaker 3: Like I should, you know, be more generous. So after

520
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:01,720
Speaker 3: meeting up with her, I'll try to give people place

521
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 3: if they want them. A lot of people be like, girl,

522
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:06,320
Speaker 3: I want that shit. But I was like, mister Rose,

523
00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:11,320
Speaker 3: you really influenced me to be nicer. So I would

524
00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:13,800
Speaker 3: like to give credit to you. It's Rose and to

525
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:18,120
Speaker 3: be influenced to be better. That's nice And we'll see

526
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:18,760
Speaker 3: y'all next week.

527
00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:19,359
Speaker 2: Bye y'all.

528
00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:26,840
Speaker 1: On Theme is a production of iHeartRadio and Fairweather Friends Media.

529
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:30,520
Speaker 1: This episode was written by Eves Jeffco and Katie Mitchell.

530
00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:34,359
Speaker 1: It was edited and produced by Tari Harrison. Follow us

531
00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:37,640
Speaker 1: on Instagram at on Theme Show. You can also send

532
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:41,160
Speaker 1: us an email at hello at on Theme dot Show.

533
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:43,679
Speaker 1: Head to on Theme Dot Show to check out the

534
00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:47,720
Speaker 1: show notes for episodes. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit

535
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:51,520
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536
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