Speaker 1: Wind Down with Janley Kramer and Michael Coffman an I'm
Speaker 1: her radio podcast.
Speaker 2: You know, I'm never the culprit of misplacing things, really
Speaker 2: not as often as you.
Speaker 3: But I was just trying to find my car keys
Speaker 3: that you misplaced about in the start of quarantine. Still
Speaker 3: can't find those bad suckers.
Speaker 4: I think that was actually like a year ago.
Speaker 3: No, it was when we got the chickens. It was
Speaker 3: the day of the chickens when my keys went missing,
Speaker 3: and thank you, but you have it's like you you
Speaker 3: say to me all the time, that's been my what's
Speaker 3: that thing called? Like?
Speaker 5: Wh're my kicker? Was that?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 5: What's it called?
Speaker 4: Like?
Speaker 3: Where I'm like my trump card? Because he's always like
Speaker 3: you don't ever, which is funny because I always put
Speaker 3: things back in its place.
Speaker 5: But I have a tendency to be like, oh.
Speaker 3: Where's my phone or where's like this when it comes
Speaker 3: to like my personal things. But every time you say that,
Speaker 3: I'm like, I don't want to hear it. I was like,
Speaker 3: you lost my keys.
Speaker 2: No matter what it is, you always bring that up.
Speaker 2: There's nothing I can do about it.
Speaker 5: But why were you saying that?
Speaker 4: Oh?
Speaker 2: Because I was frantically looking for my phone just now,
Speaker 2: and I thought I lost my mind. I didn't even
Speaker 2: remember the last place I had it.
Speaker 3: And the best part about that, though, is he was
Speaker 3: looking here for his phone, getting so for ten minutes flustered.
Speaker 3: It was like thirty and thirty and he's like getting
Speaker 3: all like worked up, and I'm like, okay, well, let's
Speaker 3: just retrace your steps, like let's figure this out. And
Speaker 3: he's just getting more flustered and flustered. And I was like,
Speaker 3: I am to go to the bathroom and then I'll
Speaker 3: come look for it the first place I look.
Speaker 4: Of course it was there.
Speaker 5: It was there. I was like, I always got to
Speaker 5: check the couch. That's like, I think I checked.
Speaker 4: All the couch except for that one.
Speaker 3: Well, I hope all of y'all had a great Christmas,
Speaker 3: however it was spent. I'm so excited for the new year.
Speaker 3: I can't wait.
Speaker 2: I have a fear though, around the new Year that everyone,
Speaker 2: like people already put a lot of weight in like
Speaker 2: new Year, knew me, it's new year, like whatever. This
Speaker 2: year especially, I feel like people are gonna put so
Speaker 2: many eggs in that basket.
Speaker 5: Which is great, they should. I'm gonna do that.
Speaker 3: I'm like, what can I do to you know, feel
Speaker 3: my best, look the best, be healthiest, Like yeah, but.
Speaker 2: You'll fall through and do it. But I'm saying people
Speaker 2: might have twenty twenty one such high expectations because they're like, well,
Speaker 2: it's just naturally gonna be better because it can't get
Speaker 2: worse than this year, and who knows it might.
Speaker 3: I mean, I think, you know, I think the expectation,
Speaker 3: like you said, if twenty twenty one is really high,
Speaker 3: but I think it's really bad to set expectations just
Speaker 3: in general, Yeah, because you're gonna get let down.
Speaker 2: And there's a difference between setting expectations and setting goals
Speaker 2: because there's people there's people that are like, I don't
Speaker 2: set goals because then that way I won't be let down.
Speaker 4: It's like e doesn't really work like that. But okay,
Speaker 4: beats theorem.
Speaker 3: But I mean I do think, I mean, hopefully it's
Speaker 3: a better year. But the same time, I still kind
Speaker 3: of where as you think that I'm not half full
Speaker 3: in this area of my life is where I'm like, no,
Speaker 3: it was a yeah, I was troubling and there was
Speaker 3: hard times, but I also I'm like, Okay, what's what
Speaker 3: was the what was the positives? All the time we
Speaker 3: spent with our kids all the So it's like I
Speaker 3: try to think about those things to be like, Okay,
Speaker 3: you know, how can I bring some of those things
Speaker 3: that I learned in twenty twenty to do better in
Speaker 3: twenty twenty one? Is a better person, as a happier person,
Speaker 3: as a more patient person.
Speaker 2: Look at that, Mama jan is dropping knowledge on inspiration
Speaker 2: on everybody.
Speaker 3: I'm not I'm just saying girl, but like, I'm just
Speaker 3: excited for those opportunities. And you know, it's not Christmas
Speaker 3: anymore because we're on the brink of another celebration.
Speaker 2: You know, I have a hard time calling it a celebration.
Speaker 2: And my therapist even got on me, got on me
Speaker 2: for this last week because it'll be a year of
Speaker 2: sobriety for me on New Year's Eve and so just
Speaker 2: my my shame and stuff wants to just not shed
Speaker 2: let light on it at all and just treat it
Speaker 2: like another day because it is. And I don't know, man,
Speaker 2: it's just hard because I think I have a lot
Speaker 2: of shame around it with you know, I wish this
Speaker 2: was the four year.
Speaker 4: You know what I mean?
Speaker 2: And it's like thinking back on the you know, bumps
Speaker 2: and major obstacles that we faced the last four years.
Speaker 2: It's just you know, four or five years. It's it's
Speaker 2: just hard to to not look back. And I'm sure
Speaker 2: you're the same way.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I know.
Speaker 3: I talked about with my therapists last week in it
Speaker 3: was one of those things where it's like, you know,
Speaker 3: I was like, how do I balance because I'm like,
Speaker 3: I'm angry, but I'm also wanting to be supportive. I
Speaker 3: was like, how can I balance being supportive and being
Speaker 3: really triggered and really hurt and let down.
Speaker 5: Without you know. So it's like I'm like, how do
Speaker 5: I how do you balance that?
Speaker 3: Because I'm like, this is his third or second, third
Speaker 3: or second birthday. I've thrown you where it's like I'm like,
Speaker 3: I don't want to bake a cake anymore and now
Speaker 3: I'm angry, like how many more one year cakes am I.
Speaker 5: Going to make? You know?
Speaker 4: And I don't want anything, like I don't.
Speaker 3: So I think that's like you know, but I'm like,
Speaker 3: but I want to be supportive. So I'm like, how
Speaker 3: do you like balance that that walk with like wanting
Speaker 3: to be a supportive spouse, but also being like, well,
Speaker 3: how many more times are we going to throw this party?
Speaker 6: Right?
Speaker 2: You know, We're going to have a good friend of yours,
Speaker 2: Brian Davis, who is openly a sex addict.
Speaker 4: As well, sex and love addict, sex and.
Speaker 2: Love addict slaw, and we'll have her on and we'll
Speaker 2: kind of talk about some of this. You know, she's
Speaker 2: been sober what eleven years?
Speaker 3: Yeah, she just celebrated her eleven year sobriety on December sixth,
Speaker 3: and Brandon I did a movie together.
Speaker 5: We met on prom night and the movie prom night.
Speaker 3: Sorry, the movie prom night. And yeah, we we just
Speaker 3: we've stayed in touch. But it's it's funny just to
Speaker 3: like tea up Brian a little bit when I was
Speaker 3: doing Dancing with the Stars. And by the way, she's
Speaker 3: gone on to you know, be on TV shows like
Speaker 3: six and True Blood, True Blood jar Head opposite Jake
Speaker 3: Jill and Hollock. She's, you know, she's an amazing actress
Speaker 3: and you know she's you know, she's she's really really good.
Speaker 2: She's gonna be on Lucifer this next season too.
Speaker 5: Yep.
Speaker 3: And then so we kind of lost touch a little
Speaker 3: bit when I was doing the country stuff, but we
Speaker 3: always you know, said hello, and you know, Facebook or
Speaker 3: whatever it was then MySpace, I don't know. And when
Speaker 3: I was doing Dancing with the Stars and then all
Speaker 3: of the stuff came about about your sex addiction, she
Speaker 3: reached out to me and was like, hey, you know,
Speaker 3: would love to meet. So we met at Catsuya in
Speaker 3: California in the in the valley and you know, and
Speaker 3: I just kind of thought we were going to have
Speaker 3: like a bashing session about you and you because you
Speaker 3: were in rehab and r and she was like, I'm
Speaker 3: actually a sex and love addict and I was like what.
Speaker 3: So you know, I learned a lot from Brion and
Speaker 3: she's kind of been my.
Speaker 5: Sponsor.
Speaker 3: Like she was the one I called when I found
Speaker 3: out about you hiding like the fake accounts last year
Speaker 3: and the deleting of the you know, your messages with
Speaker 3: the woman so we're the lady or whatever, and so
Speaker 3: you know, I called her. So she's kind of always
Speaker 3: the person that I've called in those moments and when
Speaker 3: I'm like, you know, about ready to jump from a
Speaker 3: bridge to to be like what do I do and
Speaker 3: how do I handle this? And you know, I think
Speaker 3: you guys even spoke at a time or two during
Speaker 3: last year and stuff, because she's very much in her
Speaker 3: program and you know, she's a sponsor to a lot
Speaker 3: of people, and I mean, eleven years is incredible. So
Speaker 3: and just you know her stories and but I'm really
Speaker 3: excited to have her on. But first, let's let me
Speaker 3: check in with you, Mike. How are you feeling, just
Speaker 3: like diving.
Speaker 5: Into this.
Speaker 4: Again.
Speaker 2: I think it's it's uncomfortable for me as well, because
Speaker 2: I don't want to really shed a light on it.
Speaker 2: I just want it. It's just another day. It's just
Speaker 2: it is, and it isn't you know. And for me
Speaker 2: with my my personality of nothing ever being good enough,
Speaker 2: like things that I do not being good enough, I'm
Speaker 2: just like, all right, what's it like I might feel
Speaker 2: the same way in ten years. Okay, it's ten years whatever,
Speaker 2: keep going right.
Speaker 3: But you still should celebrate like one year is great,
Speaker 3: Like you've stayed to the our knowledge, You've stayed straight,
Speaker 3: you know, for one year, and.
Speaker 5: That's a big accomplishment.
Speaker 3: Now if you get two years, you will never like
Speaker 3: you can be like, hey, I've never hit two years before,
Speaker 3: Like that's great, you know, Yeah, I mean it should
Speaker 3: be encouragement. You should celebrate it.
Speaker 4: It is.
Speaker 2: I'm encouraged that this is a legitimate year. That's nice,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. Like, so it does feel different,
Speaker 2: but it's you know again, it's it's just still uncomfortable.
Speaker 2: There are a lot of stuff, you know, for both
Speaker 2: of us.
Speaker 5: So all right, well let's take a quick break and
Speaker 5: then we'll get Brian on.
Speaker 3: All right, so super excited because we have Brion with
Speaker 3: us on wind down yours.
Speaker 5: Are you still in La right now?
Speaker 7: Yes?
Speaker 6: I am.
Speaker 3: I'm an And are you going to stay in La
Speaker 3: or are you thinking about going back to.
Speaker 6: I don't know, girl, I don't know what we're doing
Speaker 6: at this point.
Speaker 7: I don't think anybody does.
Speaker 6: You know, we're just literally honkered in our house and
Speaker 6: not going anywhere. We're getting everything delivered. It's crazy how
Speaker 6: scary it is right.
Speaker 7: Now in La.
Speaker 3: Well, I can't even imagine. But on the flip side, congratulations,
Speaker 3: you just celebrated eleven years of sobriety in December.
Speaker 7: So yes, I even't brought my chip.
Speaker 5: Look I got it.
Speaker 7: It was like, oh I should.
Speaker 4: Be pavvy middle Wow. Yeah, that's awesome. Good for you, Brian,
Speaker 4: thank you very much.
Speaker 2: You know, we're just talking about, you know, sobriety and
Speaker 2: stuff because I know Jan shared with you it to
Speaker 2: be a year for me this week, and I guess
Speaker 2: my question to you to start off is I'm still
Speaker 2: not comfortable with it, like you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: It's you know, I think even more so because it's
Speaker 2: a year and this is the second or third time
Speaker 2: that we've quote unquote celebrated a year. And I was
Speaker 2: telling you, I was like, this is my first legitimate year,
Speaker 2: which is nice. Yeah, but still it's there's so many
Speaker 2: feelings around it because of setbacks in the past where
Speaker 2: I have a hard time acknowledging it.
Speaker 7: You know, yeah, I get it.
Speaker 6: I mean, nobody walks into those rooms thinking, Yay, I
Speaker 6: get to be a part of this group of like
Speaker 6: sex addicts or sex and love addicts. And the problem
Speaker 6: is it's such a great area and it's so hard
Speaker 6: to get sobriety in the program that there's people slip
Speaker 6: all the time and they don't talk about it. But
Speaker 6: I think that's the beautiful thing that you're doing, is
Speaker 6: talking about it.
Speaker 7: But we shouldn't have shame.
Speaker 6: Because this is one of the hardest diseases ever to
Speaker 6: get through.
Speaker 7: And I've said it before, like they say a is
Speaker 7: the last, you know, house on the block you.
Speaker 6: Want to go to, but then like sex and love,
Speaker 6: addiction and stuff is like the shack in the back
Speaker 6: you like don't want to go to, like it's the
Speaker 6: worst place in the world. So I get it. I
Speaker 6: mean I can even hear that like shamefulness that you
Speaker 6: feel if you hold.
Speaker 2: I'm wearing it thick, especially as we get in closer.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it really is.
Speaker 2: And yeah, it's just hard and uncomfortable, and you know,
Speaker 2: it's just one of those things. But I think we're
Speaker 2: just taking it in stride.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, like we were kind of saying earlier too.
Speaker 3: Bran I was saying, you know, I was talking to
Speaker 3: my therapist and I'm like, it's hard for the partner.
Speaker 3: I feel like to because we have celebrated it two
Speaker 3: or three times, like because I still want to celebrate
Speaker 3: him because I think it's amazing, especially you know, Okay,
Speaker 3: it's gonna be on New year' z Like what a celebration?
Speaker 3: What a Like you know, this is amazing, you know,
Speaker 3: you have one year. But then I'm like it's like
Speaker 3: the other part of me, that's like I don't want to.
Speaker 3: I don't want to because I'm like, how many more
Speaker 3: are we gonna throw? And that's where like my the
Speaker 3: the negative and the fear part comes in with with
Speaker 3: my side of it, going, well, you know, are we
Speaker 3: going to have to celebrate another one?
Speaker 5: Is this going to be?
Speaker 3: You know now is New Year is going to be
Speaker 3: a trigger holiday? Because he might relapse again and be like, oh,
Speaker 3: we could have been celebrating here, you know. So it's
Speaker 3: like it just sets more and more like trigger trigger
Speaker 3: places and trigger holidays and trigger like because it's like
Speaker 3: there already there's enough triggers in the world as it is.
Speaker 3: With this, it's like I'm like, how am I supposed
Speaker 3: to like? And I mean we talked about a lib
Speaker 3: with my with my therapist, but like, like to like
Speaker 3: walk that line is so hard because I'm like, of
Speaker 3: course I want to celebrate him. I don't want him
Speaker 3: to feel shame, but I'm also terrified out of my mind.
Speaker 7: Well I can understand.
Speaker 6: I mean, when any I and I speak to a
Speaker 6: lot of partners, it's so interesting that we're talking about this.
Speaker 6: I had someone reach out yesterday. He's the partner of
Speaker 6: someone that you know, she keeps cheating on him, and
Speaker 6: he keeps going back to her, and she's holding on
Speaker 6: to him. And I was just telling him, you have
Speaker 6: to understand that when a slip happens, it has nothing
Speaker 6: to do with you as the partner. It has to
Speaker 6: do with the addict feeling out of control, feeling, you know,
Speaker 6: like they're not going to good enough to be truly loved,
Speaker 6: and they don't feel like they can love and be loved.
Speaker 6: So I first would say, yes, New Year's Eve, celebrating
Speaker 6: a year again has got to be very difficult for you,
Speaker 6: But it's also he's doing the work. If he wasn't
Speaker 6: doing the work, if he wasn't, you know, going to therapy,
Speaker 6: going to meetings, talking to his sponsor, then I would
Speaker 6: say there's a huge problem there. But he's doing the work,
Speaker 6: and I, as your friend, have seen so many people
Speaker 6: change and know that on the other side, like he
Speaker 6: will be you know, it's just going to be a year,
Speaker 6: and it's two years, and it's three years, and every
Speaker 6: year some new layer is going to expose itself, and
Speaker 6: as a partner you just have to kind of be
Speaker 6: along for the ride and not take it part.
Speaker 3: If the relapses keep happening, then it's kind of like
Speaker 3: what you said to me last December. You're like, he's
Speaker 3: not doing the work, Like you can't put your foot
Speaker 3: and forward either way if he's not doing the work.
Speaker 6: Yeah, And I said that to I was like, if
Speaker 6: he's not doing the work and he's not taking it seriously,
Speaker 6: then you got to get out, you know, because just
Speaker 6: like my husband, if I'm not doing the work to
Speaker 6: better myself and to get out of my isms, it's
Speaker 6: not fair for him to stick around.
Speaker 2: Brian, when did you decide to be public about being,
Speaker 2: you know, in slaw and sex and love addiction.
Speaker 5: Well, that's the funny thing.
Speaker 6: I mean, when I hit ten years, it was this
Speaker 6: moment and Jane and I talked a lot about it
Speaker 6: because we've been doing that project we've had together, and
Speaker 6: it was this overwhelmed I spoke at this meeting, and
Speaker 6: I spoke for forty five minutes, and it was a
Speaker 6: meeting all around the world over the phone, right and
Speaker 6: you can call in and leave a message for the speaker,
Speaker 6: and I got all these messages from all over the world,
Speaker 6: and it was such a beautiful moment for me because
Speaker 6: I felt this like, wow, I've hit a decade, which
Speaker 6: is crazy. Like when I walked into the room, I
Speaker 6: couldn't believe someone. I remember this guy speaking and he
Speaker 6: was like, I have eight years and I was like
Speaker 6: eight years. I can't even get through a day right now,
Speaker 6: you know, like I was in so much pain and
Speaker 6: he the whom he was speaking, and now I'm on.
Speaker 7: That other side.
Speaker 6: It's my it's it's it's almost like God gave me
Speaker 6: this gift to be the voice for a woman sex
Speaker 6: and love at it because women, it's more shameful. As
Speaker 6: a woman, I feel, yeah, you know, it's more like
Speaker 6: it's even when a Jana and I were talking, you remember,
Speaker 6: You're like, it's not real.
Speaker 7: It's a man who remember he said that to me.
Speaker 4: I was like.
Speaker 6: No.
Speaker 7: But I just felt like, here's.
Speaker 6: My chance to give my experience, strength and hope to
Speaker 6: a bigger than just Los Angeles. And I wrote this
Speaker 6: huff Post article coming out, you know, as a sex
Speaker 6: and love addict, a recover sex and love addict, sharing
Speaker 6: one of my bottoms, and it was the.
Speaker 7: Best thing I've ever done.
Speaker 6: It was terrified, but then the feedback has been so
Speaker 6: beautiful and like my girlfriend has this problem.
Speaker 7: I have this problem.
Speaker 6: I can't like stop cheating, I can't you know, keep
Speaker 6: dming guy like everything. And I just felt of such
Speaker 6: service that it just made me think bigger than just
Speaker 6: myself for sure.
Speaker 2: I mean it is, you know, even with negative blowback
Speaker 2: or whatever. I know, for me personally, just with our
Speaker 2: story being out there, the amount of guys that have
Speaker 2: reached out to me or messaged me or whatever, and
Speaker 2: that I've met with and talked with, that's more fulfilling
Speaker 2: than anything else I could have imagined. And really for me,
Speaker 2: I've experienced that it inspires my you know, my recovery
Speaker 2: and everything because you're just you're including more people like
Speaker 2: within your store, in your circle, and it's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I don't want to let down Gene. I don't want
Speaker 2: to let down myself for my kids, But then you
Speaker 2: have all these people kind of leaning on you, and
Speaker 2: you just want to continue to be support for them
Speaker 2: and for me, it's just I think that's been a
Speaker 2: big part of why I've been able to get to
Speaker 2: a legitimate year is honestly us talking about it so.
Speaker 5: Much in which aspect.
Speaker 2: Just because more people, so many people have reached out
Speaker 2: and so I just feel encouraged, Like it helps me
Speaker 2: feel encouraged with what we're doing as opposed to as
Speaker 2: much shame. Yeah, I mean because people lean on me,
Speaker 2: Guys lean on me, guys reach out to me and
Speaker 2: want to talk about these things. So it's just an
Speaker 2: added layer for it.
Speaker 7: It makes us accountable.
Speaker 6: Also, it makes you accountable, like do you want to
Speaker 6: go do this thing? I mean even just that chip,
Speaker 6: that little teeny you know, gold chip. I remember when
Speaker 6: I was driving to get my six month chip, and
Speaker 6: I talk about this a lot that like somebody like
Speaker 6: I was intriguing with texted me on the drive to
Speaker 6: get my six month chip, and I remember thinking, do
Speaker 6: I do what I always do in text back or
Speaker 6: do I do something different and go get that plastic
Speaker 6: red six months chip, Like that was more important at
Speaker 6: that moment than you know, getting my high getting someone
Speaker 6: to fill me. But I also have to congratulate you
Speaker 6: in the sense of I don't know at my one
Speaker 6: year if I could have been so public. There's something
Speaker 6: also has to be difficult that speaking out at such
Speaker 6: a vulnerable place, because I remember at my one year
Speaker 6: I literally wanted to.
Speaker 7: Crawl out of my skin.
Speaker 6: I felt like I was like a snake, like trying
Speaker 6: to shed its skin. Yeah, is that how you feel?
Speaker 6: Because that has to be a lot of pressure at
Speaker 6: this stame.
Speaker 2: It is, and it's been an unfortunate hat to wear
Speaker 2: like this early in my recovery process, especially over the
Speaker 2: last four or five years or four years that our
Speaker 2: story has been out. But that's the thing. My anonymity
Speaker 2: was taken away from me. That wasn't my choice, and
Speaker 2: so I've had to write it out, you know, and
Speaker 2: it's it is hard because then when you know, I
Speaker 2: did have you know, the setback last year, and it's
Speaker 2: like we essentially have to publicly address it.
Speaker 4: You know. That's that sucks.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it sucks to really for both of us, not
Speaker 2: just me, but for both of us to for janit
Speaker 2: to feel embarrassed or to feel sadness around that, for
Speaker 2: me to feel shamed and embarrassed as well. And so
Speaker 2: it's you know, it's not easy, and but again we're
Speaker 2: just you know, we just have to keep talking about
Speaker 2: it and lean on each other around it and be
Speaker 2: able to express our feelings.
Speaker 3: You and I.
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, because I don't know if my husband, I
Speaker 6: don't know if Mark would have been able even you know,
Speaker 6: he's sober like thirty something years and his own addiction,
Speaker 6: but that would have been really hard on our relationship
Speaker 6: the first year going through that, because did you feel
Speaker 6: like this first year was like your first you know,
Speaker 6: the other you know, three years ago, because the first
Speaker 6: year is the worst, it's the worst.
Speaker 7: You feel like you're dying.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, because I've I've still been in the
Speaker 2: program for four years now, it's yeah, felt simpler at
Speaker 2: times because of that those initial just like even though
Speaker 2: you're doing the work, you feel like you're white knuckle
Speaker 2: in every second of the day. Where I've I've gotten
Speaker 2: past like that, that kind of those kind of places
Speaker 2: where you know, when I first entered the room, the
Speaker 2: whole lust of the mind will go away. I didn't
Speaker 2: believe that was ever possible until I started getting some
Speaker 2: time together and and so now like those kind of
Speaker 2: things are are aren't in an equation, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean, it's as much it's.
Speaker 4: It was just.
Speaker 2: It was still getting to that level of comfortability with myself,
Speaker 2: and it was just I was just a hard time
Speaker 2: to doing that. The initial stuff was okay, but I
Speaker 2: just had a hard time maintaining it because eventually I
Speaker 2: just kind of fell off the wagon. I'll just be
Speaker 2: reaching for something.
Speaker 6: I don't know what it was, well, anything to fill
Speaker 6: that hole when we're feeling. Even this morning, I have
Speaker 6: to tell you, like a part of me was like
Speaker 6: annoyed that I was on a Zoom one of the
Speaker 6: Zoom meetings you know that I go to every morning,
Speaker 6: and people were just annoying me, And I was like,
Speaker 6: why am I so irritated? And it makes you want
Speaker 6: to like reach for a cookie or reach for your phone,
Speaker 6: to look at Instagram, anything you can do to get
Speaker 6: out of feeling discomfort. And as an addict, especially a
Speaker 6: sex and love addict or a sex addict and being
Speaker 6: addicted to people that we have to sit in this
Speaker 6: discomfort and be okay with it. And it's like who
Speaker 6: wants to do that? Who wants to sit and discomfort
Speaker 6: and be okay with you?
Speaker 4: You know I was.
Speaker 2: I was on a twelve step meeting this morning. A
Speaker 2: guy said something great that was being real time just
Speaker 2: with something he was dealing with, and he was making
Speaker 2: an im point. He was like, you know, one is
Speaker 2: too many, A thousand's not enough to exactly your point
Speaker 2: like to take that distraction or take whatever. And I
Speaker 2: was like, man, it's it's so true because you know,
Speaker 2: you still have those moments where you're like, you just
Speaker 2: want to run away from whatever you're feeling. And I'm
Speaker 2: sure people who aren't even addicts have that right they
Speaker 2: feel their void with something. And it's like, again, one
Speaker 2: is too many, thousands, not enough. It was just it
Speaker 2: got me today.
Speaker 7: But don't you feel grateful a little bit?
Speaker 6: I mean, I have to tell you we have the tools.
Speaker 6: Can you imagine not having the tools and being in
Speaker 6: this world pandemic and not being able to jump on
Speaker 6: a twelve step meeting in the morning when your kids
Speaker 6: are driving you crazy, your significant other you're just feeling discomfort, Like,
Speaker 6: I'm so grateful.
Speaker 2: I'm extremely grateful for that. And I mean i mean
Speaker 2: this from a not codependent way, and I'm grateful that
Speaker 2: I have of Janna because I know not to compare,
Speaker 2: but I know so many other spouses, There so many
Speaker 2: other guys that are in worse situations, you know, with
Speaker 2: their significant other. And just to the fact that I
Speaker 2: have a wife that's able to navigate through things as
Speaker 2: well as Janet ultimately can is a game changer for
Speaker 2: me just being someone who does have some codependency tendencies
Speaker 2: and stuff and just wants to really you know, hey, honey,
Speaker 2: how am I feeling today? Like that kind of thing
Speaker 2: to have her has been a big pillar in my
Speaker 2: ability to you know, feel sane at times. Honestly, along
Speaker 2: with work on my program.
Speaker 6: Do you ever ask her to like fix it for you?
Speaker 2: Not anymore? No, Like I'm able to. I'm getting better
Speaker 2: at allowing her to have her feelings or allowing myself
Speaker 2: to have my feelings without putting that on her. But
Speaker 2: you know, Janet got was reached out by somebody Anonymous
Speaker 2: a day or two ago. Because you sponsor so many
Speaker 2: people and have so much time in this program, brand,
Speaker 2: wonder what your advice would be for somebody that maybe
Speaker 2: that's listening, that maybe going through a new discovery, especially
Speaker 2: during the holidays, Because Janna got a message about she
Speaker 2: just found out her husband was a sex addict, and
Speaker 2: it's around the holidays, and it's like, what do the
Speaker 2: what does that other person do to to stay sane
Speaker 2: during this time?
Speaker 6: I mean, that's a that's a load of question because
Speaker 6: there's no right way, Like I said to Janna and
Speaker 6: like I say to anybody listening, if you're with a
Speaker 6: sex addict, a sex and lave addict, a love addict,
Speaker 6: a codependent, any of those things and they're acting out
Speaker 6: outside of your relationship, one number one, you can't fix them.
Speaker 6: It's not Jana's responsibility to fix you. It's not my
Speaker 6: husband's responsibility to fix me. And they're not reason enough
Speaker 6: for us to get better. So if you're struggling and
Speaker 6: your partner is act out, you have every right to
Speaker 6: walk away. Now I know kids are involved. I have
Speaker 6: a kid also, And if that person is willing to
Speaker 6: step into a room, step into therapy to get help
Speaker 6: and find out why they are, you know, watching too
Speaker 6: much porn, disconnecting, masturbating too much, disconnecting with other people,
Speaker 6: all that stuff that we as sex and love adicts
Speaker 6: tend to do. You know, if they're willing to look
Speaker 6: at the reason why, it's worth walking through that fire
Speaker 6: with them, if you love them, because on the other
Speaker 6: side of it, it's such a deeper connection then I
Speaker 6: have ever experienced. Like my husband and I are more
Speaker 6: connected ever than we were like sixteen years ago, and
Speaker 6: it was because we walked through the pain, walk through
Speaker 6: like where does he contribute to my addiction? Where do
Speaker 6: what are the things I'm doing not to completely have
Speaker 6: both feet in our relationship. So if you're out there
Speaker 6: and you just bound out this information, you know I
Speaker 6: would look at the pros and cons. Is the person
Speaker 6: willing to do the work, and then you have to
Speaker 6: make that decision for yourself.
Speaker 3: Brian, why do people still Like a lot of people
Speaker 3: will say and leave comments like oh, that's just a
Speaker 3: you know, married's man excuse, or like they don't believe
Speaker 3: sex addiction?
Speaker 6: Well, number one, I think I think it's the most
Speaker 6: uncomfortable disease. It's easier to be like, oh, that person's
Speaker 6: addicted to drugs and alcohol and Janna, you and I've
Speaker 6: talked about it, and you know, more people are in
Speaker 6: jail and dead because of sex and love addiction. More
Speaker 6: people are murdered over sex, over jealousy, over cheating, More
Speaker 6: people are in jail. And I've spoken out jails for
Speaker 6: a really long time, and every woman in there was
Speaker 6: a sex and love at it in some form.
Speaker 7: So I think society as a whole.
Speaker 6: We lean into glamorizing falling in love, glamorizing sexuality, you know,
Speaker 6: putting it all out there, intriguing, flirting.
Speaker 7: All that stuff.
Speaker 6: So society doesn't want to look at it as a
Speaker 6: problem because if they look at it as a problem,
Speaker 6: then that means our whole structure has to change. So
Speaker 6: I think it makes people really uncomfortable with the idea
Speaker 6: of being addicted to people. And I think they glamorize
Speaker 6: it because I always say, like, I'm in love with
Speaker 6: falling in love, I'm in love with feeling that first high,
Speaker 6: and every movie hits on that almost They don't talk
Speaker 6: about paying the bills, they don't talk about real intimacy,
Speaker 6: what real sex looks like after being married for ten years,
Speaker 6: So I think they want to believe it's just you know,
Speaker 6: a cheater's you know, made up thing to get out of,
Speaker 6: you know, acting out.
Speaker 7: But it's not. It's so real. I can't even tell you.
Speaker 6: I was on a meeting the other night and there
Speaker 6: was like four hundred people like it's it's this is
Speaker 6: a huge deal. I think our society is so disconnected,
Speaker 6: and social media has even made us more disconnected and
Speaker 6: lean into fantasy and like going online and looking at
Speaker 6: other people's lives and fantasizing and all that. So I
Speaker 6: just feel like it's too hard for people to understand
Speaker 6: that it is not a man of disease.
Speaker 4: I wish it, ye me both.
Speaker 7: I was like, I wish it wasn't real.
Speaker 6: But when you meet a woman that is sixty five
Speaker 6: that can't stop cheating, you know, or another man that
Speaker 6: can't stop watching porn, and it's just like one after
Speaker 6: the other, and it's every walk of life. It's every gender,
Speaker 6: it's every you know, that's everything ethnicity.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's why I tell people, especially in Los Angeles
Speaker 2: when I was doing meetings there, I mean you had
Speaker 2: people from eighteen to eighty, every creed, color, sexual orientation,
Speaker 2: marital status, you name, all all about.
Speaker 6: It, like Janitor to like CEO to huge as it
Speaker 6: doesn't matter.
Speaker 3: Yeah, ooh, spill all the deets. And I'm kidding.
Speaker 6: Oh tell me who, Well, that's what I do. Spill
Speaker 6: some deeds, but I don't say because I do have Yes,
Speaker 6: she does, so go ahead tell us all about the
Speaker 6: book and then your podcast too. Oh. So I did
Speaker 6: write a book, which is crazy because I'm dyslexic and
Speaker 6: like me writing a book, I can't even put like
Speaker 6: a proper sentence together.
Speaker 7: But I did.
Speaker 6: My husband forced me to write a book in a
Speaker 6: loving way, and it's coming out in February, and it's
Speaker 6: caused Secret Lives of a Hollywood Sex and Love adict
Speaker 6: and there is you know, some stories in there that
Speaker 6: have to do with Hollywood, have to do with this addiction.
Speaker 6: How Hollywood amplifies the addiction sometimes. And yeah, I'm really excited.
Speaker 6: I'm really nervous, and I hope people like it. It's based
Speaker 6: on my life, but it's in a fiction character and
Speaker 6: it's gonna be a lot of fun, I think.
Speaker 5: And you've read it, Danna, it's juicy.
Speaker 7: It's it's it is jucy.
Speaker 6: I had someone I had someone read it and they said,
Speaker 6: and I think you said the same thing. They said,
Speaker 6: it's like tittlizing, but you it's an addiction, so you
Speaker 6: feel like really wrong.
Speaker 3: But then you it's like a car crash. You can't
Speaker 3: like like you want to be a part of it.
Speaker 3: But they were like, no, wait, what what am I?
Speaker 3: And then you have a podcast too, so and I
Speaker 3: love the premise of your podcast, So tell our listeners
Speaker 3: what yours is all about.
Speaker 6: It's called Secret Life. We started it, my husband and
Speaker 6: I started it at the beginning of August. We were
Speaker 6: feeling and I know a lot of people were. We
Speaker 6: were feeling so disconnected with everything going on, and we're like,
Speaker 6: how can we give back on a bigger level. So
Speaker 6: I was in bed one night and it popped into
Speaker 6: my head, secret life. Have other people tell that, Tell
Speaker 6: me their secrets, because I just got done telling huff
Speaker 6: Posts came out March night teenth, and the world shut
Speaker 6: down March twelfth, So I just got done sharing this
Speaker 6: huge secret, and I thought like, oh my god, the
Speaker 6: world is gonna stop. And nothing happened except the world
Speaker 6: stopped for the virus. But I just realized, like it
Speaker 6: felt so good to be of service, and it felt
Speaker 6: so good to let go.
Speaker 7: Of that shame, let go of that secret.
Speaker 6: So I started the podcast called Secret Life, and people
Speaker 6: come on and share all types of secrets.
Speaker 7: You know.
Speaker 6: Some of the first ones were their husband, their boyfriend
Speaker 6: was a sex addict, you know, coming out of the
Speaker 6: closet with their parents, having emotional incests with their mom,
Speaker 6: shooting themselves in the chest with a shotgun and surviving
Speaker 6: the suicide attempt. You know. Yeah, to funny ones of
Speaker 6: like us being actresses and going and like making up
Speaker 6: that we can do something and then being on set
Speaker 6: like all these different secrets of from all walks of
Speaker 6: life I have, and I'm just really proud of it
Speaker 6: because people have found so much healing from that.
Speaker 4: Too cool.
Speaker 5: It's in Brion, you know.
Speaker 3: You always say like everyone has an ism, yes, which
Speaker 3: is always was interesting, like we all have some kind
Speaker 3: of ism we do.
Speaker 6: I think what Mike said is that we all use
Speaker 6: something to get outside of ourselves, whether it be shopping online.
Speaker 6: I have tons of girlfriends that when they're bored, are
Speaker 6: feeling not okay, they'll go and shop and it's like
Speaker 6: I ask them, where are you going to wear that
Speaker 6: right now?
Speaker 7: Like you can't go anywhere?
Speaker 5: Why are you shopping clothes?
Speaker 7: Yeah, like you're not wearing it anywhere.
Speaker 6: So, or they watch a lot of television and they're
Speaker 6: obsessed with Netflix. Or you're eating a bunch of cookies,
Speaker 6: which I had one this morning for breakfast because.
Speaker 7: I was feeling uncomfortable.
Speaker 6: We all have something we do to get outside of ourselves,
Speaker 6: and I am trying to make a movement where we
Speaker 6: stop and we just us are okay with just as
Speaker 6: we are where we are, and that we are loved
Speaker 6: no matter what with all our brokenness, with all our discomforts,
Speaker 6: with all our low self esteem, that we're all the same,
Speaker 6: We're all scared of fear and abandonment at some level
Speaker 6: as humans.
Speaker 5: I love you, Brian.
Speaker 3: Everyone follow Brian Davis get her book when it comes
Speaker 3: out in February, Secret Life of Hollywood, Sex and Love Addict,
Speaker 3: and then also her podcast Secret Life Podcasts, and just
Speaker 3: I love you. I'm proud to know you. I'm proud
Speaker 3: to call you a friend. So thanks for coming on BIB, Bye.
Speaker 7: Guys, and congratulations on your.
Speaker 4: You all try to accept that.
Speaker 6: Yes, please do pat yourself on the book.
Speaker 4: Thanks, brand appreciate it.
Speaker 7: Bye, guys.
Speaker 2: You know it's like she ended with their you know,
Speaker 2: everybody has something that they reach for, and I just
Speaker 2: want to clarify kind of what her and I are
Speaker 2: both saying on that is that doesn't mean everyone's an
Speaker 2: addict of something. It's just because there's tendencies behind that.
Speaker 2: But but we do. Everyone has something that when they're
Speaker 2: feeling a certain way, they distract themselves and it could
Speaker 2: be a healthy distraction, but we all try find ways
Speaker 2: to avoid feeling that.
Speaker 5: What is your healthy distraction?
Speaker 2: My hobbies, your hobbies my twelve hobbies.
Speaker 3: Then you start a hobby, you buy all the stuff
Speaker 3: for it, and then you do it like once or twice.
Speaker 4: What I haven't I done though?
Speaker 5: I mean, you biked for like I biked.
Speaker 2: For a while, and I'm still going to once it
Speaker 2: gets warm again. I'm just not that committed to do
Speaker 2: it in the cold.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I think, I mean, my healthy one's running,
Speaker 3: but my probably my unhealthy is either scrolling on Instagram
Speaker 3: in like comparing or sometimes well, lately, I've done a
Speaker 3: better job of not drinking wine when I'm frustrated because
Speaker 3: I've noticed that, like I was, just would drink wine
Speaker 3: just to not feel, which is not a good thing.
Speaker 3: So now I'm I'm careful to not drink on those
Speaker 3: nights because I don't want that to become an issue.
Speaker 1: So earlier before, Brian, you said something I found interesting.
Speaker 8: As you were saying about Mike's year, you referred to
Speaker 8: it as I forget the exact words you used. There
Speaker 8: was something like, as far as we know, you've been
Speaker 8: good for a year, and I feel like, of course
Speaker 8: it's impossible for you to know everything, But isn't there
Speaker 8: an implied lack of trust in that sentence.
Speaker 3: I mean, I could see how you would think that,
Speaker 3: and I get it. But that's how I have to
Speaker 3: because I don't know. I'll never know. Only he knows.
Speaker 3: To my knowledge, i've seen him. If I if I
Speaker 3: were to say like he is, that's gonna destroy me
Speaker 3: over and over and over because I don't know what
Speaker 3: the real truth is.
Speaker 4: But when you.
Speaker 1: Say that, is it a subtle way of saying to him,
Speaker 1: I trust you to a point, I trust you ninety percent,
Speaker 1: but just so you know, it's not all the way
Speaker 1: there yet.
Speaker 5: To me, it's not towards him. I could see how
Speaker 5: it could.
Speaker 3: Maybe you could maybe think it's like a passive, but
Speaker 3: it's more like to protect myself.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think.
Speaker 8: I would take it personally, Like how do you take
Speaker 8: it when.
Speaker 2: You say I used to take it personally? For sure,
Speaker 2: because that's exactly how our to receive it as passive.
Speaker 2: It's like you're saying you believe me or trust me,
Speaker 2: but not really. But over time I'm able to realize
Speaker 2: why that said, because you know, it's kind of you know,
Speaker 2: fool me. Want shame on you for me, twe shame
Speaker 2: on me, you know what I mean? So that twice
Speaker 2: I've had to reset my time.
Speaker 3: Well we've had to well like four times we've had
Speaker 3: two year, three year birthdays and then have.
Speaker 5: The reset of a few twice.
Speaker 2: I've twice I've had to go back on my one year. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's why I'm kind of getting that this would be
Speaker 2: the third time I've gotten two a year quote unquote
Speaker 2: because the past ones. So I can understand that she
Speaker 2: can't just wholeheartedly just trust fall into me, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean. That's going to take time, and I
Speaker 2: got to earn that, so I don't take it personally anymore.
Speaker 2: I I you know, I take it for what it is,
Speaker 2: and I understand that there's still healing and pain behind it.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 3: My therapist is kind of always said, like, because that's
Speaker 3: that's the knowledge that we know. What we know is
Speaker 3: you know what we what we think is going going on,
Speaker 3: but we don't fully know. And so if we hold
Speaker 3: on like no, no he's not, then you're gonna like
Speaker 3: you can spiral like so crazy out of control because
Speaker 3: you're gonna want to I'm gonna want to put the control.
Speaker 3: I'm going to want to control what he's doing. And
Speaker 3: because I've I'm like, no, he's not lying, but if
Speaker 3: I to the best of our not to the best
Speaker 3: of my knowledge, he's he's straight because I can't control
Speaker 3: what he's doing, so that makes it that makes me
Speaker 3: not hold the control. And I know it looks like trust,
Speaker 3: but for me, it's more of just.
Speaker 4: The letting go of control.
Speaker 3: Letting go of expectations and control and the fear.
Speaker 8: But that but that's a good illustration of how this
Speaker 8: is not really a celebration of one year. It's the
Speaker 8: tempered enthusiasm behind it because Mike's got the shame of
Speaker 8: hitting this point plenty of time, Jenna st look out
Speaker 8: the as far as we know, so therefore it is
Speaker 8: what it is, and it's notable, but it's not a celebration.
Speaker 3: But I think it's still But that makes me sad
Speaker 3: because I think it's still should be celebrated because hopefully
Speaker 3: we won't have to come well they're I won't unfortunately
Speaker 3: be around for the next one, if there is one,
Speaker 3: and that's just the reality. But I'll still support him
Speaker 3: from from afar.
Speaker 1: What's the farthest we've gotten one year?
Speaker 5: But again, it wasn't really sober.
Speaker 2: Now this is the farthest I've gotten.
Speaker 1: Well, that's worth celebrating.
Speaker 4: I think.
Speaker 3: See that's that's and that's what I'm saying, Like that's
Speaker 3: where I think, you know, that is worth celebrating. Yeah,
Speaker 3: because yeah, because we've he this is the most sober
Speaker 3: he's been for a year. Like that's amazing, And I
Speaker 3: do want him to celebrate that because I hope that
Speaker 3: it's going to be you know, one year, one day
Speaker 3: and then one year, you know, like I'm excited for him.
Speaker 1: I want him to feel so celebration at two years
Speaker 1: because we've never come close to two years, right, or maybe.
Speaker 4: It's five years.
Speaker 3: No, I mean, hey, every every year that it gets
Speaker 3: more and he's legit so like you know, like live
Speaker 3: and how he'd lived the past year. I mean, we're
Speaker 3: gonna have massive celebrations.
Speaker 2: Well and here, but here's the thing that anyone in
Speaker 2: program would say to all that is, I don't even
Speaker 2: I'm not even thinking about that because now getting to
Speaker 2: this point, being the farthest I've gone along, I realized
Speaker 2: why people in program said it's you know, one day
Speaker 2: at a time, because it is you literally live one
Speaker 2: day at a time. You know, the moment you start
Speaker 2: thinking about all that and you know that's when you
Speaker 2: look past yourself. So I'm just focused on today, Tomorrow'll
Speaker 2: be focus on tomorrow and hopefully next thing, I know,
Speaker 2: I look up and it's been ten years.
Speaker 3: Hey man, Well, I genuinely am really excited to celebrate
Speaker 3: your one year. And I hope that, like you said,
Speaker 3: there's many more years to come. But for right now,
Speaker 3: let's just soak in the one year. And I'm proud
Speaker 3: of you for live in a sober year.
Speaker 2: Well, I appreciate that, honey. I'm really going to try,
Speaker 2: and you know, I just want to say thank you
Speaker 2: because you know, I've put us through a lot and
Speaker 2: you're still here, and like I was telling Brian earlier
Speaker 2: in the show, and you is in a healthy way.
Speaker 2: You know, you're a huge part of my motivation. And
Speaker 2: I just continue to remind myself on how grateful I
Speaker 2: am that I still have you, because there's a lot
Speaker 2: of people that wouldn't stick around. So I thank you,
Speaker 2: and uh, we'll just make the day the the best
Speaker 2: we can. I love you, Love you to see y'all.
Speaker 6: Hice