Speaker 1: Welcome to the NFL Legends Podcast, an NFL podcast for
Speaker 1: the players, by the players. Here is your host, four
Speaker 1: team year NFL veteran and Hall of Famer Anius Williams.
Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to the NFL Legends Podcast. I'm a
Speaker 1: Nius Williams. It is an election year and today we're
Speaker 1: going to talk about the other contacts for it politics
Speaker 1: and we have two legends who have made the transition
Speaker 1: from football to congress. First, we have as right tackle
Speaker 1: who became a two term congressman from New Jersey, the
Speaker 1: great John Runyon Philadelphia Eagles. We also have Scott Turner,
Speaker 1: who I can out run. He will admit that, who
Speaker 1: played eight seasons, served in Congress and now words for
Speaker 1: the Department of Housing and Urban Development. Welcome, gentlemen. I
Speaker 1: do apologize I could never out run Scott, So let's
Speaker 1: get that straightforward for the truth. At what point, John
Speaker 1: did you decide you wanted to get in politics. It
Speaker 1: was a weird kind of it was a transition. Obviously,
Speaker 1: an injury slash surgery ended my career and there was
Speaker 1: an opportunity to run. You know, I took it as
Speaker 1: service ultimately, and you know, we'll get into it as
Speaker 1: we talk here, but it became a lot more than that.
Speaker 1: And you know, the the stuff you had to go
Speaker 1: through was it was enlightening. It was depression at the
Speaker 1: same time, but it was it was something real, and
Speaker 1: it was just an opportunity that I took to actually
Speaker 1: serve the community there, you know, because I've been on
Speaker 1: many you know, I still sit on you know, like
Speaker 1: the Alzheimer's Association, a couple of veterans boards and all
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff. But that was the next step.
Speaker 1: And then you get there and you peep behind the curtain,
Speaker 1: you go, oh, my lord, but John, you so you injured?
Speaker 1: No punt on word. If you decide to run, you
Speaker 1: get injured, you decide to run politics. But why politics?
Speaker 1: Were you involved in politics while playing? I think like
Speaker 1: most Americans, I was fed up and part of my
Speaker 1: friends with the BS and I was fed up with it.
Speaker 1: And it's like you just need somebody that's a straight shooter,
Speaker 1: and it's not gonna lie to you, because here's what
Speaker 1: it is. When you look at I actually hate the
Speaker 1: problem with it is people called politics. It's not politics,
Speaker 1: it's governing. And when you when you look at governing,
Speaker 1: what is governing. It's parenting slash coaching your kids, like
Speaker 1: what you have to tell them every day. Not at all.
Speaker 1: That's the reality of the situation. Now politics is all
Speaker 1: you know, well, you know, let's divide and you know,
Speaker 1: and divide and run to the extremes. I always say
Speaker 1: when politics is a very you know, in the House,
Speaker 1: you need two eighteen votes to pascity thing, So put
Speaker 1: those put those votes on a bell shaped curve. So
Speaker 1: everything gets done in the hump in the middle. And obviously, myself,
Speaker 1: being a Republican from New Jersey, very moderate, I goes
Speaker 1: all the stuff you hear, you know, on the radio, television,
Speaker 1: in the paper are out here on the tails. And
Speaker 1: when everybody latches to that, because it's politically convenient to
Speaker 1: latch to that, you start to stretch those tails. What happens,
Speaker 1: that hump comes out of the middle of the curve
Speaker 1: and absolutely nothing gets done. And I've always you know,
Speaker 1: I told I've told, I told my chief of staff this.
Speaker 1: I told um at the time, Speaker Banner, that I
Speaker 1: was I can vote any way I want you on
Speaker 1: any piece of legislation, as long as I'm willing to
Speaker 1: go home and put the time in and communicate my
Speaker 1: decision to my constituents. And I've called people out. I
Speaker 1: did it in front of the Republican Conference several times,
Speaker 1: Like people are just lazy. You're not willing to actually
Speaker 1: go home and do the work and explain yourself. You're
Speaker 1: taking the politically convenient way out and actually going through
Speaker 1: the edges and stretching those tales out. And when you
Speaker 1: say politically convenient way out, what do you define? What
Speaker 1: do you mean John, when you say politics versus governing?
Speaker 1: Because politics, they always go, well, it's outside of my principles.
Speaker 1: So what are your principles? How many politicians you know
Speaker 1: that have have been in it forever and they voted,
Speaker 1: you know, ten years ago they voted this way and
Speaker 1: now they're voting in the exact opposite way. So what
Speaker 1: are truly your principles? No, it's called it's called doing
Speaker 1: what's right. And and what times change issues? The issues
Speaker 1: never really changed, you know, what are the major issues? Taxes, healthcare, military,
Speaker 1: all that, they never change, but it's how they fit
Speaker 1: into what your constituents are and what the country feels.
Speaker 1: So you you you have to be somewhat malleable in
Speaker 1: that in that situation, and a lot of people just say,
Speaker 1: I'm principally opposed to it, so therefore I'm not for it.
Speaker 1: But they're not having the discussion, they're not communicating, and
Speaker 1: that that was a big frustrating part for me and Scott.
Speaker 1: How did you what made you decide get a politic? Well,
Speaker 1: that's a good question, and it was service um when
Speaker 1: I got out of the NFL. Prior to getting out
Speaker 1: of NFL, intern with a gentleman named Congressman Duncan Hunter,
Speaker 1: who was in part who served with John the father,
Speaker 1: Duncan Hunter Jr. With me when you start with you, Okay,
Speaker 1: well we won't talk about him. So the father, uh
Speaker 1: was Duncan hun Senior and he was a chairman of
Speaker 1: the Armed Services Committee, and so I had a great
Speaker 1: opportunity to serve as an intern with him, and I
Speaker 1: played for the Broncos, and I saw really what being
Speaker 1: a true statesman looked like, you know, because you hear
Speaker 1: a lot of things in politics about politics when you're
Speaker 1: on the outside, and so when I was with him,
Speaker 1: I actually got to see how true statesman, who was
Speaker 1: also a chairman, you know, of a major committee in Congress,
Speaker 1: how he carried himself, how he treated people, whether they
Speaker 1: were in politics or outside. I mean, I saw him
Speaker 1: literally treat uh constituents back in the East County of
Speaker 1: San Diego that had been known him for twenty years,
Speaker 1: but none of us in this room and never even
Speaker 1: know their name. He treated them just as well as
Speaker 1: he treated the President of the United States. And when
Speaker 1: I saw that, you know, I was very encouraged. When
Speaker 1: I moved back home to Dallas, UM they said there
Speaker 1: was a new seat coming open, a state House seat
Speaker 1: coming open because of redistricting. And the platform that I
Speaker 1: had had that I had in the NFL of serving players,
Speaker 1: of serving our community, of serving people, I wanted to
Speaker 1: continue that in serving the state of Texas where I'm from,
Speaker 1: where I was born and raised. And the frustrating, like
Speaker 1: John said, what are the frustrations that I had, was
Speaker 1: humility in being a servant leader, because I didn't see
Speaker 1: a lot of humility in our elected officials. What is
Speaker 1: a statesman? So a statesman to me is someone who
Speaker 1: carries themselves in the most upright manner him or herself.
Speaker 1: Um that you take very seriously the position of which
Speaker 1: the people elected YouTube. And when I say take it seriously,
Speaker 1: meaning that not that you're above them, but that everything
Speaker 1: you do you do in integrity and above reproach. A
Speaker 1: statesman is someone who, whether they're with you or whether
Speaker 1: they're not with you, whether they're in your presence or
Speaker 1: in your absence, you can trust that they're going to
Speaker 1: do the right thing. A statesman there's someone who is
Speaker 1: an advocate for all of those whom elected them to office,
Speaker 1: whether they're popular or not. A statesman is someone who,
Speaker 1: when they give you their word, you know they're gonna
Speaker 1: make true on the word the trustworthy. And I remember
Speaker 1: one day when I was sitting in the House of
Speaker 1: Representatives and it was done a budget debate, so it
Speaker 1: was late at night. Don't use that word, Okay, don't
Speaker 1: use what word John, budget? What we we balanced the
Speaker 1: budget in Texas. In Texas, because a budget would assume
Speaker 1: that there's a balance money and money out, not so much.
Speaker 1: It's a spending that's what it is. Well, we balanced
Speaker 1: a budget every two years, because we're in the House,
Speaker 1: we're incessant every two years. We're so we're bi annually.
Speaker 1: And so we were having this debate on the floor
Speaker 1: and I was sitting there and I was hearing both
Speaker 1: Democrats and Republicans going back and forth, back and forth.
Speaker 1: We're really no consensus, really no no end game or
Speaker 1: vision in mind. And I was sitting there and I
Speaker 1: was like, you know, we need more statesmen in our
Speaker 1: country than we need politicians. And politicians to you, I
Speaker 1: heard what Johnson, But what do you mean when you
Speaker 1: say politicians? To me, is somebody to make decisions based
Speaker 1: upon being reelected? A politician to me as someone who
Speaker 1: makes the decision not based upon principle or based upon
Speaker 1: their conviction, but really based upon you know, is this
Speaker 1: gonna keep me in good favor it's convenience. Is this
Speaker 1: gonna keep me in good favor with the leadership? Is
Speaker 1: this gonna, you know, cause me any kind of contention
Speaker 1: back home? Or is this gonna keep me as a
Speaker 1: committee chairman? Those that's what politicians do. And politicians are
Speaker 1: also those people who want to be elected and would
Speaker 1: do everything they can to keep their position. Statesmen say,
Speaker 1: I'm coming to serve for a certain period of time.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do my job. I'm in a humble manner
Speaker 1: with integrity to serve my community, and then I'm going home.
Speaker 1: There's a there's a big difference between statesman and politicians.
Speaker 1: So would you say listening to that, because if I
Speaker 1: want to get elected, if I become quote unquote the statesman,
Speaker 1: meaning making decisions in this room because it's right, not necessarily,
Speaker 1: what if what my constituents want is not right? When
Speaker 1: I faced that, because a lot of times I made
Speaker 1: decisions where some constituents back home and say, no, we
Speaker 1: want you to do the opposite thing. And I've had
Speaker 1: to take some really hard votes, as John has as well.
Speaker 1: But one thing I found is that because they respected
Speaker 1: me for the man that I that I am, even
Speaker 1: though I made a decision that went against what they
Speaker 1: thought I should do, I had no problem in being
Speaker 1: reelected because they could trust that what I said I
Speaker 1: was gonna do and that my conviction was such that
Speaker 1: I did what I thought was the right thing. And
Speaker 1: they trust you even if they don't agree with you
Speaker 1: on a If they can trust you, then you have
Speaker 1: no problem. You should have no problems being re elected
Speaker 1: and um may containing your position as a representative, because
Speaker 1: it's very easy politicis that can make one decision to
Speaker 1: day And I totally they're like John said ten years
Speaker 1: later to make a whole different decision. Well, our constituents
Speaker 1: don't deserve that that there's somebody who's gonna be consistent
Speaker 1: and trustworthy, Johnna. The any parallels with football that you
Speaker 1: learned that's helped to help you prepare for being an
Speaker 1: elected official, Oh, I mean a lot of them. I
Speaker 1: mean specifically coming from playing offensive why you know, the
Speaker 1: own Sun hero. No one's talking about you until you
Speaker 1: mess something. You know, you guys got credit for things
Speaker 1: that we never got credit for. We only got acknowledged
Speaker 1: for our mistakes, you know. And and and it's a
Speaker 1: lot that so like, like we say, it's like, you know,
Speaker 1: when you look across the political spectrum, there's a role
Speaker 1: for everybody, and you all have different constituents that have
Speaker 1: different needs and different wants and all that type of stuff,
Speaker 1: and you have to represent them regardless. But at some
Speaker 1: point you have it. On the football team, at some point,
Speaker 1: you know, you know, you want your you know, you
Speaker 1: want your pass breakups, you want your tackles and all that. Well,
Speaker 1: I'm trying not to give up a sack. It's a
Speaker 1: totally different, you know, statistic there, But at some point
Speaker 1: we all have to come together, you know, and and
Speaker 1: it's it gets to the point where they want to
Speaker 1: win everything. But sometimes, like when you're backed up in
Speaker 1: the end zone, it's good enough to get ten yards
Speaker 1: and get your punter room to punt and change the
Speaker 1: field position. And you know, using those analogies a lot
Speaker 1: of time, and they do use them, but they don't
Speaker 1: believe in them because they don't they haven't lived, they
Speaker 1: haven't lived, and it's it's sometimes it's really hard to
Speaker 1: express that that type of stuff. And it's also it's
Speaker 1: also the thing like you don't want your teammate like
Speaker 1: you know, after a game or you know, in a
Speaker 1: press conference, throwing you under the bus, like it's like,
Speaker 1: let's keep let's keep our differences in house, and let's
Speaker 1: just move the ball forward. And that that's where the
Speaker 1: politics comes in, because they go out and it's like, well,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm gonna go out here and do this
Speaker 1: press conference and beat my chest and you know, say
Speaker 1: this is ridiculous and this that's ridiculous. One of the
Speaker 1: great things I know John Bayner said in the beginning
Speaker 1: when I got elected, he goes, never say what you
Speaker 1: won't do, because you never know what did that mean?
Speaker 1: To you. It's it's really it's like because depending on
Speaker 1: how deep you get into any issue and how well
Speaker 1: you know that issue, the more the more you dig
Speaker 1: into it, it's going to change your mind eventually. So
Speaker 1: never say you won't do it. So it's it's really
Speaker 1: about gaining knowledge and that's and it's learning, and it's
Speaker 1: like Scott said, it's like it's talking to everyone possibly
Speaker 1: you can. I know, you know, there's a lot of
Speaker 1: members that just won't take meetings with certain people just
Speaker 1: because of their political affiliation or you know where they're
Speaker 1: coming from. I was like, no, I'm gonna every time
Speaker 1: I have conversations with somebody, I'm gonna learn something from them.
Speaker 1: So the more I could talk to people, the more
Speaker 1: I'm gonna learn, the better I'm gonna be off, and
Speaker 1: the better decision I can make at the end of
Speaker 1: the day. Scott, how is winning an election similar or
Speaker 1: dissimilar to winning the game. There are similarities because even
Speaker 1: when in an election, you have an end goal in
Speaker 1: mind that you want to win the election, be elected,
Speaker 1: and serve the people. In sports, you have an end
Speaker 1: goal in mind every Monday when we come in and
Speaker 1: we start the process. The end goal is that on
Speaker 1: Sunday we walk up the field winners. Um, the feeling
Speaker 1: is somewhat similar and somewhat different. You know, you get
Speaker 1: an exhilarating feeling because you won. I remember when I
Speaker 1: got elected and they called and say, hey, you wont
Speaker 1: I just remember the first thing I thought about is
Speaker 1: how many signs I put out, how many round tables
Speaker 1: I've done, how many doors, thousands of doors I've knocked on,
Speaker 1: you know, how many people I've talked to. And so
Speaker 1: when you get that phone call and said you won
Speaker 1: the election, instance, there's a very exhilarating sense of accomplishment,
Speaker 1: sense of whoa, I'm glad that's over in a good way,
Speaker 1: and a sense of okay, what's next. And so there's
Speaker 1: a lot of similarities. Got to give back the work,
Speaker 1: you know, because as soon as I got elected, the
Speaker 1: first after you know, that stuck in the first thing
Speaker 1: I thought about, Okay, what are my priorities I talked
Speaker 1: about him in the campaign. I said, okay, now you know,
Speaker 1: now I can go implement these or talk about these
Speaker 1: in the house. Did you colleagues treat you any differently
Speaker 1: because you're an NFL experience? Oh yeah, I want you
Speaker 1: a part of that group. Hey, we don't care where
Speaker 1: you come from, but they treat you a little different
Speaker 1: than you. I think that that kind of goes to
Speaker 1: I think where we've kind of went off the rails
Speaker 1: in politics because it was supposed to. You know, back
Speaker 1: two years ago when this started, you know, you left
Speaker 1: your print shot, you left the farm, you know, and
Speaker 1: you came and served. Now what happens. We have a
Speaker 1: bunch of people that mhm, study political science undergrad got
Speaker 1: a j d. Law degree in college, and I'll throw
Speaker 1: them under the bus right now. There are a bunch
Speaker 1: of people that probably will never make partner in the
Speaker 1: law firm, and all of a sudden they decided to
Speaker 1: run for politics. We have enough of those. We need
Speaker 1: more real people and bringing those experiences I used stay
Speaker 1: it on the campaign trol all the time. We all fall,
Speaker 1: we all fail, and we all get up and we
Speaker 1: dust ourselves off in very different ways. I may get
Speaker 1: up on my left knee first, You get up on
Speaker 1: your right knee first. You know, my back may hurt.
Speaker 1: I've learned lessons from that fall. But you've got to
Speaker 1: have that that that swath of experiences to bring that
Speaker 1: because it's not easy. It's very very complicated. That's why
Speaker 1: it's it's really really hard to fix because they're very
Speaker 1: confident caterd issues and say you're gonna just gonna in
Speaker 1: a stroke of a pen and you know, two piece
Speaker 1: of legislation, you're going to solve the country's problems. It
Speaker 1: ain't gonna happen. It's constant, constantly going out learning, educating people,
Speaker 1: letting people know why you did what you did and
Speaker 1: why you didn't do what you didn't do, and all
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff. It's it's challenging, and it's no
Speaker 1: different than beyond the football field. You know, game plans
Speaker 1: change week to week depending on who the opponent is,
Speaker 1: you know, you know, and legislation changes day to day.
Speaker 1: But the fans will get to vote on what plays
Speaker 1: are called. They don't, but tell them about that. But
Speaker 1: look at that. I mean, fans don't get to vote
Speaker 1: on what plays is called. But you know, you look
Speaker 1: at that, and it's just like it's no different than
Speaker 1: the coaching staff, Like all right, the coach thinks this
Speaker 1: is the best thing one So when you look at
Speaker 1: the structure of like just say leadership in any of
Speaker 1: those governing bodies. You know, they're the ones that have
Speaker 1: the experience of the knowledge and all of that. Kind
Speaker 1: of Stuft was like, this is the best path forward
Speaker 1: for the team, Yeah, overall overall, And the players don't
Speaker 1: really get to vote on that. No, you're just like going.
Speaker 1: But it's a lot correct, it's not. It's a lot
Speaker 1: like that in in in government. But you have a
Speaker 1: saying at the end of the day, you can say no.
Speaker 1: But if they if it makes enough sense enough people
Speaker 1: are gonna go with it and then try to try
Speaker 1: to run that play. It's not necessarily gonna work. So
Speaker 1: here's a great question. Ten years with Arizona only one
Speaker 1: year in the playoffs with me first ten years in
Speaker 1: the league, I'm listening to the challenges. I'm listening to you, John.
Speaker 1: When you're a perennial losing teams like that, there's a
Speaker 1: tendency for players to become losers. So one of the
Speaker 1: things was to be to be a thermostat, not at
Speaker 1: thermometer thermometer, as you guys will go up and down
Speaker 1: based on the losing instead of working your butt off regardless.
Speaker 1: Because players don't necessarily totally control outcome of a game.
Speaker 1: How have you been able to stay hopeful when you've
Speaker 1: been seeing the things that you've talked about, John, have
Speaker 1: you have have you maintained, Oh, we still can win
Speaker 1: in this country at this? Tell them about that. Like
Speaker 1: I said, I mean, there's there's good in everybody. You
Speaker 1: can either choose to look at the good or you
Speaker 1: can choose to go to the negative. Boy, So let's
Speaker 1: just let's take the view and say what can we
Speaker 1: agree on and let's do it. You know there's you know,
Speaker 1: and then once we do something, because you've been on
Speaker 1: teams when you're winning, that confidence builds and that you know,
Speaker 1: that emotion starts to grow and it it just explodes
Speaker 1: on you. But if you're always saying it's like woe
Speaker 1: is me? This this? You know, this sucks and all
Speaker 1: this kind of stuff, like winning is a lot harder
Speaker 1: than harder than losing, because losing you just show, like
Speaker 1: you know, when you're in the legislature, you just stow
Speaker 1: your hands up, say no to everything. That's an easy way.
Speaker 1: How do you find a solution? And you have to
Speaker 1: find a good in people and find what you agree
Speaker 1: on and actually have conversations with them. It happens more
Speaker 1: often than not. But the unfortunate part I think, you know,
Speaker 1: when you throw the word politics in it, it becomes
Speaker 1: it becomes a sound bite, it becomes a tweet, it
Speaker 1: becomes a you know, a clip on the evening news,
Speaker 1: and that's what they're playing to. And that's the frustrating
Speaker 1: part about it because and I've served with a lot
Speaker 1: of them, and I'm like, why do you go out
Speaker 1: and say that, because I know you're not that person.
Speaker 1: You're just trying to get a hit, because you're trying
Speaker 1: to get reelected. If you do the right thing and
Speaker 1: you communicate with your constituents, you don't have a problem
Speaker 1: getting reelected. But that's that's kind of the world we're living,
Speaker 1: and it's frustrating. And that's frankly why I stepped away
Speaker 1: from Wow Scott. At Southern University where I attended, my
Speaker 1: brother was vice president and student government association, I didn't
Speaker 1: care anything about governance at all, only kind up running
Speaker 1: for sophomore class sentator. I want when I got in
Speaker 1: the room and sort of budget that that amount of money,
Speaker 1: it's like sixty million dollars for the student governments to govern.
Speaker 1: I'm looking around the room. First of all I know
Speaker 1: about me. I'm in here only because of my brother.
Speaker 1: I'm thinking they allow us to decide what's gonna happen
Speaker 1: with sixty million dollars. So when I have that perspective
Speaker 1: some inexperiencing young students who had no clue about what
Speaker 1: we were doing, did you ever feel that in the room,
Speaker 1: what this huge now trillion dollar billion dollar budget? Yeah,
Speaker 1: and that's and I want to answer that. Then I'm
Speaker 1: gonna go back to the course you as John, Yes,
Speaker 1: because you go in and kind of be overwhelming, you know,
Speaker 1: in particularly in Texas As I said, you know, we
Speaker 1: meet every other year and we and one of our
Speaker 1: constitutional obligations is to balance the budget. What do you
Speaker 1: mean you meet every idience the budget. We're in session
Speaker 1: every years, that every year. Yeah, because we're called servant
Speaker 1: lead too, so we are people in texts that have
Speaker 1: businesses or to have jobs, and you step away from
Speaker 1: that like it was from the origination, the original. So
Speaker 1: you were never really supposed to be lifetime, full time
Speaker 1: no elected officials. That's how and so we serve you're
Speaker 1: always elected for those two years, barring anything that happens,
Speaker 1: but you're only in session for one and forty days
Speaker 1: every other year. And one of the things we were
Speaker 1: constitutionally mandated to do is balt us the budget and
Speaker 1: textas we have about a two D D and fifteen
Speaker 1: billion dollar budget and you're one of one fifty you know,
Speaker 1: representatives to make a decision on passing the budget, and
Speaker 1: so that could be quite overwhelming, especially my first session.
Speaker 1: But the good thing about that you have a team
Speaker 1: of people that are working together both Democratic Republican UH
Speaker 1: and you know, a group of attorneys and c pas
Speaker 1: and all of that that surround you to bounce your
Speaker 1: ideas off. To get that advice from you, talk to
Speaker 1: your constitute. You have a that's the policy. You have
Speaker 1: things that you have to you know, fund healthcare education
Speaker 1: in Texas is about a hundred and fifty billion, so
Speaker 1: we only have about eleven percent discretionary funding for everything else.
Speaker 1: Roads and this thing happened and so it can be
Speaker 1: um as you say, you know, you know, like man,
Speaker 1: what am I doing here? But as you get into it,
Speaker 1: you learn, you know, if if you if you put
Speaker 1: the effort in, you learn about the process. You learn
Speaker 1: about it. And that's part of our job to learn
Speaker 1: as much as we can and in order to make
Speaker 1: a right decision to benefit the people have tastas. And
Speaker 1: that's the point you mentioned, John, in terms of being lazy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and that's what And that's the time these conversations that
Speaker 1: way you meant, because it's all you know, staying away
Speaker 1: from the political aspects. Like you you ever voted for
Speaker 1: a piece of legislation that you're a hundred percent agree with?
Speaker 1: Maybe one maybe when you throw it back into the
Speaker 1: bell shaped curve. You need those, you know, those votes
Speaker 1: in the middle. You're gonna have votes on either side.
Speaker 1: But the only thing that most people that aren't engaged
Speaker 1: in the process here is the stuff out on the
Speaker 1: tails of that bell shape curve. And that that's the
Speaker 1: frustrating part about it, which comes back to the elected
Speaker 1: member to actually come out and do the town halls
Speaker 1: and educate people and have those conversations. A lot of
Speaker 1: times it's not pleasant because people like like I said,
Speaker 1: you know, governing is parenting slash coaching. You're not gonna
Speaker 1: like what I have to all you, but why we're
Speaker 1: doing and you know, it's just so's your responsibility to
Speaker 1: the best you can to help your constituents. I understand.
Speaker 1: And I used to I used to bust in the
Speaker 1: little orphan state of New Jersey that I represented. So
Speaker 1: South Jersey is really an orphan compared to North Jersey
Speaker 1: because most of the population is up north. And I would,
Speaker 1: you know, I'd hope people. I guess, when's the last
Speaker 1: time you saw one of our senators in South Jersey
Speaker 1: and it wasn't an election here. Yeah, you got a point,
Speaker 1: But that's that's the reality of what you're doing, or
Speaker 1: is like, are you actually going out and learning the
Speaker 1: dynamics of every you know, every little thing you know
Speaker 1: small business, whether it's you know, you know a fishing
Speaker 1: port or you know mom and pop shop and all that.
Speaker 1: Are you are you having those conversations, learning what their
Speaker 1: issues are and what you can do to actually help
Speaker 1: them to make their life better because small business is
Speaker 1: the is the engine of this country. You know, small
Speaker 1: business employees way more people than any you know, fortunate
Speaker 1: five hunter company. Well, because when you do it, you know,
Speaker 1: by five by ten, it's exponential, and how many small
Speaker 1: businesses are in your backyard most people don't know. And
Speaker 1: that type of stuff you do is a member to
Speaker 1: go out and learn and meet those people. It's amazing
Speaker 1: to see the amount of you know, the amount of
Speaker 1: just knowledge and you know, entrepreneurialship that people have that
Speaker 1: go out and employ these types of people. It's it's amazing.
Speaker 1: But a lot of people don't put the time in
Speaker 1: to do it because they run to the principal aspect
Speaker 1: of it and say it's just not good enough. So
Speaker 1: once again, having the right people around you to help you, well,
Speaker 1: that's you can't. I said this, I used say it
Speaker 1: on campaign Charlie. Like I've never done anything in my
Speaker 1: life by myself. I've always depended on having to write
Speaker 1: people around me, trust their their counsel, their guidance and
Speaker 1: their experiences and trust in And you have to have
Speaker 1: trustworthy people around because you can't, you can't humanly do it.
Speaker 1: This word I just did an earlier podcast. This word
Speaker 1: trust keep coming up. And here goes back to the
Speaker 1: stituent constituents trusting. You talked about the statesman right while
Speaker 1: playing in the league and even as an elected official,
Speaker 1: did you guys have mentors that that kind of help
Speaker 1: you navigate and the sport of football and then navigate
Speaker 1: in and what I would call the game of politics.
Speaker 1: If I would call it that mentors anybody comes to mind. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously you know, you're a great mentor to meet,
Speaker 1: and not just in football, but even now in life
Speaker 1: because you know exactly when I make big decisions, you're
Speaker 1: always a part of it. And so not only did
Speaker 1: you mentor me in life and in football from the
Speaker 1: time I was in college. I was a freshman in
Speaker 1: college when I met a Nast and this is and
Speaker 1: we still have the same type of mentor brotherhood relationship.
Speaker 1: And so but because of that, I've been able to
Speaker 1: not only receive from you and the other mentors that
Speaker 1: you know in our circle, but now I can take
Speaker 1: that and mentor other people in life now in sport
Speaker 1: and politics and now my current assignment at the White House.
Speaker 1: And you know, you said some a while ago about
Speaker 1: are we hopeful, you know, and how can we trust
Speaker 1: that it's going to be good? And obviously you know,
Speaker 1: and and agreeing with John, yes, I'm hopeful. And in
Speaker 1: my current role, you know at the White House Opportunity
Speaker 1: and Revitalization Council, h you always say something, as you said,
Speaker 1: begin with the end in mind, right, and the end
Speaker 1: goal is in our country, we got thirty five million people,
Speaker 1: close to fifty million people to live in poverty. So
Speaker 1: the end goal is how do we not only eradicate poverty,
Speaker 1: but how do we lift these people up or help
Speaker 1: them to lift themselves up out of poverty and to
Speaker 1: fulfill that God given potential and to live self sustain
Speaker 1: in lives. Well, this legislation, with the tax cuts and
Speaker 1: jobs in it created the opportunity zones and inside of
Speaker 1: these opportunities on you know, that was about partisan, you
Speaker 1: know decision, because poverty doesn't care what party you're in.
Speaker 1: Poverty is a systemic issue in our country. And this
Speaker 1: word trust comes up because now it's can we trust
Speaker 1: our elected officials? Can we trust you know, the decision
Speaker 1: that has been made by the President, the administration, and
Speaker 1: now really myself, that this particular policy will cross political lines,
Speaker 1: cross generational lines, cross socio economic lines, and actually bring
Speaker 1: about a viable solution. And I've been in this position
Speaker 1: of last year and what I have seen is that
Speaker 1: Democrats and Republicans have had to come together at the
Speaker 1: same table with local stakeholders, community of faith leaders, education leaders,
Speaker 1: what have you, to look at the pain of the community.
Speaker 1: But also now look at the potential and the promise
Speaker 1: in the community. And there's a trust factor there is
Speaker 1: because they have to trust that what I'm telling them,
Speaker 1: this the legislation that I'm caring is law, this council
Speaker 1: that I'm stilling, and they have to trust that this
Speaker 1: will work if we do a B and C and
Speaker 1: come together. And so I'm hopeful because I'm seeing results
Speaker 1: that are bringing people together across party lines. And you
Speaker 1: also have to trust that the bureaucrats that are actually
Speaker 1: enforcing the legislation you passed are doing it in the
Speaker 1: same the same spirit, in the same spirit. And is
Speaker 1: a little bit difficult because now you get into legal
Speaker 1: interpretations of a piece of legislation, and then you gotta
Speaker 1: go back and then the law year later and do
Speaker 1: all that and then that that gets even more touching.
Speaker 1: And when you mention bureaucrats, what exactly do you mean?
Speaker 1: Think about how many people work for you know, State
Speaker 1: of Texas or the United States federal government. You know,
Speaker 1: once you pass something into law, now they have to
Speaker 1: implement the law. That's their job. But there are legal
Speaker 1: interpretations to everything. It's like, I mean, you know, you've
Speaker 1: handed a contract to two different attorneys and got two
Speaker 1: different answers. And that's that's part of the thing when
Speaker 1: you're trying to craft legislation, to try to pinpoint it,
Speaker 1: but you don't. The problem is when you pinpoint it
Speaker 1: so direct, people fall out of that. They fall out
Speaker 1: of that cone because you're you're pointing at one issue,
Speaker 1: but what about the issue that's you know, you know,
Speaker 1: ten feet outside that one, what about the next fifteen?
Speaker 1: So you're entrusting a lot of the bureaucrats that actually
Speaker 1: implement these laws to do the right thing and interpret
Speaker 1: the spirit of the legislation you're doing, because when you
Speaker 1: pinpoint it, that's law and they can't vary from it.
Speaker 1: So you have to give them some discretion and the
Speaker 1: actual legislation. So what I hear, John, I saw a
Speaker 1: picture as you're talking, so um so all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: now passed I saw passes. So the people passed to
Speaker 1: the elected official their desires and they're trusting you're gonna
Speaker 1: catch the ball and do something with it right what
Speaker 1: they've asked you to do, what their hearts desire. And
Speaker 1: then now you're telling me, once you guys voted in
Speaker 1: not a bureaucrats, they get the ball. That's the player
Speaker 1: that was called now and then you mentioned the word
Speaker 1: trust against You got to drop the past. You know,
Speaker 1: you can. You know it could be an a dr touchdown.
Speaker 1: You know, it could be a five yard swing pass.
Speaker 1: You don't know, and that's that's the reality of it.
Speaker 1: But that's just like on your team. He said, you
Speaker 1: in Arizona for ten years and y'all didn't have a
Speaker 1: lot of winning. Sea went to the players one time,
Speaker 1: but one thing that happened. They trusted you and they
Speaker 1: followed you and your leadership because they saw what you did.
Speaker 1: You trusted the guys on your defense because you saw
Speaker 1: how they practice, You saw how they prepared. You know,
Speaker 1: it's the same way with John on the offensive line.
Speaker 1: He had to trust those four or five guys with
Speaker 1: him that when they made that call, that everybody was
Speaker 1: gonna do the right thing because of preparations. It's the
Speaker 1: same thing here. You know. You you spend hours with
Speaker 1: the men and women that you served with, and you
Speaker 1: see how they prepare or not. You know, you see
Speaker 1: how they treat their constituents, you see how they run
Speaker 1: their office, you see how they treat their staff members. Right, Oh,
Speaker 1: it's all very talent, and so you know who you
Speaker 1: can trust and who you cannot trust, and that circle
Speaker 1: becomes smaller. Look when you said even how they treat
Speaker 1: their staff members, I saw a chuckle or something that
Speaker 1: hit you, John, Well was it. There's a lot of
Speaker 1: people that don't treat their staffs right, and that speaks
Speaker 1: something to you. It shows up when you speak to them.
Speaker 1: It's very talent. It's just like we treat people that
Speaker 1: are supporting. You know, I have the staff of sixteen people, family,
Speaker 1: like I still talked. I still talked to him, you know,
Speaker 1: every other couple of months, you know, to this day,
Speaker 1: and bounce ideas off of them and all that kind
Speaker 1: of stuff. They're family, family because they have your back,
Speaker 1: you know. And it's not I mean, you're gonna make mistakes,
Speaker 1: but you know it's like we told you, you know,
Speaker 1: we recommended this to you and all this kind of stuff.
Speaker 1: But you know, ultimately, you know, six months later, it
Speaker 1: was a bad decision. All right, Well, let's regroup. I'm
Speaker 1: not gonna I'm not holding a grudge against you. I
Speaker 1: love you. We all make mistakes. I used to sit
Speaker 1: on campaign trail. There's only one perfect person to ever
Speaker 1: walked the face of his thirth and he sit next
Speaker 1: to sits next to the Lord eyes. Final question couple
Speaker 1: to Final Questions number one. If former legends are thinking
Speaker 1: about politics, what thought should they have if they're considered
Speaker 1: doing it? What they're willing to give up? Can it
Speaker 1: cost you? It costs you a lot? Mhm. Are you
Speaker 1: willing to give up your time with your family? Are
Speaker 1: you willing to have your life be an open door?
Speaker 1: Are you willing to give up your income? You know,
Speaker 1: depending on what you run for? Are you willing to
Speaker 1: it's an income drop your special intentions. Money takes us,
Speaker 1: you know. So what what price are you willing to
Speaker 1: be giving up? What are you willing to give up?
Speaker 1: Final questions which if you had to choose again, would
Speaker 1: you choose football and politics? I'm all in football, man,
Speaker 1: this is my passion, this is my life. Yeah. Um,
Speaker 1: I would choose football because football was the the catalytic
Speaker 1: tool that the Lord used that I can do it.
Speaker 1: I do. Now. You know the other thing about football?
Speaker 1: You know, it's like politics is very analytical and brainy
Speaker 1: and hetty. So is so is football. But you know what,
Speaker 1: on football field, I can go and pose my will
Speaker 1: on another man. You can do that probably difference. I
Speaker 1: have way more control on the football field than I do.
Speaker 1: It's co signing a piece of legislation. There's nothing like it.
Speaker 1: You know, we've been in the highest halls of Congress,
Speaker 1: White House, you know, literally the episode of our country
Speaker 1: in the free world that we're very blessed to do so.
Speaker 1: But the thing about football, there is nothing that you
Speaker 1: can compare to being an NFL player, and I'm so
Speaker 1: grateful for that experience. So I would choose football any
Speaker 1: day of the week. And because of the transferable skills
Speaker 1: and the opportunity it gives you to do things outside
Speaker 1: of football, which could be for the next podcast. I
Speaker 1: think it is really unbelievable. John and Scott, this has
Speaker 1: been great man. Thank you asked for being in here,
Speaker 1: thanks for listening in The best is yet to come.
Speaker 1: M This has been the NFL Legends podcast. To provide
Speaker 1: feedback or request a topic for discussion, email us at
Speaker 1: NFL Legends at NFL dot com. Yeah,