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Speaker 1: Welcome to the NFL Legends Podcast, an NFL podcast for

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Speaker 1: the players, by the players. Here is your host, four

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Speaker 1: team year NFL veteran and Hall of Famer Anius Williams.

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Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to the NFL Legends Podcast. I'm a

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Speaker 1: Nius Williams. It is an election year and today we're

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Speaker 1: going to talk about the other contacts for it politics

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Speaker 1: and we have two legends who have made the transition

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Speaker 1: from football to congress. First, we have as right tackle

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Speaker 1: who became a two term congressman from New Jersey, the

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Speaker 1: great John Runyon Philadelphia Eagles. We also have Scott Turner,

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Speaker 1: who I can out run. He will admit that, who

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Speaker 1: played eight seasons, served in Congress and now words for

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Speaker 1: the Department of Housing and Urban Development. Welcome, gentlemen. I

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Speaker 1: do apologize I could never out run Scott, So let's

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Speaker 1: get that straightforward for the truth. At what point, John

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Speaker 1: did you decide you wanted to get in politics. It

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Speaker 1: was a weird kind of it was a transition. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: an injury slash surgery ended my career and there was

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Speaker 1: an opportunity to run. You know, I took it as

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Speaker 1: service ultimately, and you know, we'll get into it as

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Speaker 1: we talk here, but it became a lot more than that.

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Speaker 1: And you know, the the stuff you had to go

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Speaker 1: through was it was enlightening. It was depression at the

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Speaker 1: same time, but it was it was something real, and

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Speaker 1: it was just an opportunity that I took to actually

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Speaker 1: serve the community there, you know, because I've been on

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Speaker 1: many you know, I still sit on you know, like

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Speaker 1: the Alzheimer's Association, a couple of veterans boards and all

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Speaker 1: that kind of stuff. But that was the next step.

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Speaker 1: And then you get there and you peep behind the curtain,

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Speaker 1: you go, oh, my lord, but John, you so you injured?

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Speaker 1: No punt on word. If you decide to run, you

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Speaker 1: get injured, you decide to run politics. But why politics?

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Speaker 1: Were you involved in politics while playing? I think like

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Speaker 1: most Americans, I was fed up and part of my

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Speaker 1: friends with the BS and I was fed up with it.

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Speaker 1: And it's like you just need somebody that's a straight shooter,

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Speaker 1: and it's not gonna lie to you, because here's what

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Speaker 1: it is. When you look at I actually hate the

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Speaker 1: problem with it is people called politics. It's not politics,

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Speaker 1: it's governing. And when you when you look at governing,

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Speaker 1: what is governing. It's parenting slash coaching your kids, like

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Speaker 1: what you have to tell them every day. Not at all.

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Speaker 1: That's the reality of the situation. Now politics is all

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Speaker 1: you know, well, you know, let's divide and you know,

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Speaker 1: and divide and run to the extremes. I always say

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Speaker 1: when politics is a very you know, in the House,

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Speaker 1: you need two eighteen votes to pascity thing, So put

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Speaker 1: those put those votes on a bell shaped curve. So

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Speaker 1: everything gets done in the hump in the middle. And obviously, myself,

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Speaker 1: being a Republican from New Jersey, very moderate, I goes

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Speaker 1: all the stuff you hear, you know, on the radio, television,

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Speaker 1: in the paper are out here on the tails. And

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Speaker 1: when everybody latches to that, because it's politically convenient to

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Speaker 1: latch to that, you start to stretch those tails. What happens,

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Speaker 1: that hump comes out of the middle of the curve

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Speaker 1: and absolutely nothing gets done. And I've always you know,

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Speaker 1: I told I've told, I told my chief of staff this.

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Speaker 1: I told um at the time, Speaker Banner, that I

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Speaker 1: was I can vote any way I want you on

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Speaker 1: any piece of legislation, as long as I'm willing to

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Speaker 1: go home and put the time in and communicate my

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Speaker 1: decision to my constituents. And I've called people out. I

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Speaker 1: did it in front of the Republican Conference several times,

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Speaker 1: Like people are just lazy. You're not willing to actually

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Speaker 1: go home and do the work and explain yourself. You're

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Speaker 1: taking the politically convenient way out and actually going through

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Speaker 1: the edges and stretching those tales out. And when you

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Speaker 1: say politically convenient way out, what do you define? What

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Speaker 1: do you mean John, when you say politics versus governing?

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Speaker 1: Because politics, they always go, well, it's outside of my principles.

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Speaker 1: So what are your principles? How many politicians you know

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Speaker 1: that have have been in it forever and they voted,

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Speaker 1: you know, ten years ago they voted this way and

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Speaker 1: now they're voting in the exact opposite way. So what

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Speaker 1: are truly your principles? No, it's called it's called doing

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Speaker 1: what's right. And and what times change issues? The issues

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Speaker 1: never really changed, you know, what are the major issues? Taxes, healthcare, military,

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Speaker 1: all that, they never change, but it's how they fit

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Speaker 1: into what your constituents are and what the country feels.

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Speaker 1: So you you you have to be somewhat malleable in

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Speaker 1: that in that situation, and a lot of people just say,

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Speaker 1: I'm principally opposed to it, so therefore I'm not for it.

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Speaker 1: But they're not having the discussion, they're not communicating, and

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Speaker 1: that that was a big frustrating part for me and Scott.

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Speaker 1: How did you what made you decide get a politic? Well,

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Speaker 1: that's a good question, and it was service um when

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Speaker 1: I got out of the NFL. Prior to getting out

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Speaker 1: of NFL, intern with a gentleman named Congressman Duncan Hunter,

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Speaker 1: who was in part who served with John the father,

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Speaker 1: Duncan Hunter Jr. With me when you start with you, Okay,

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Speaker 1: well we won't talk about him. So the father, uh

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Speaker 1: was Duncan hun Senior and he was a chairman of

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Speaker 1: the Armed Services Committee, and so I had a great

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Speaker 1: opportunity to serve as an intern with him, and I

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Speaker 1: played for the Broncos, and I saw really what being

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Speaker 1: a true statesman looked like, you know, because you hear

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Speaker 1: a lot of things in politics about politics when you're

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Speaker 1: on the outside, and so when I was with him,

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Speaker 1: I actually got to see how true statesman, who was

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Speaker 1: also a chairman, you know, of a major committee in Congress,

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Speaker 1: how he carried himself, how he treated people, whether they

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Speaker 1: were in politics or outside. I mean, I saw him

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Speaker 1: literally treat uh constituents back in the East County of

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Speaker 1: San Diego that had been known him for twenty years,

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Speaker 1: but none of us in this room and never even

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Speaker 1: know their name. He treated them just as well as

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Speaker 1: he treated the President of the United States. And when

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Speaker 1: I saw that, you know, I was very encouraged. When

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Speaker 1: I moved back home to Dallas, UM they said there

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Speaker 1: was a new seat coming open, a state House seat

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Speaker 1: coming open because of redistricting. And the platform that I

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Speaker 1: had had that I had in the NFL of serving players,

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Speaker 1: of serving our community, of serving people, I wanted to

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Speaker 1: continue that in serving the state of Texas where I'm from,

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Speaker 1: where I was born and raised. And the frustrating, like

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Speaker 1: John said, what are the frustrations that I had, was

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Speaker 1: humility in being a servant leader, because I didn't see

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Speaker 1: a lot of humility in our elected officials. What is

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Speaker 1: a statesman? So a statesman to me is someone who

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Speaker 1: carries themselves in the most upright manner him or herself.

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Speaker 1: Um that you take very seriously the position of which

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Speaker 1: the people elected YouTube. And when I say take it seriously,

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Speaker 1: meaning that not that you're above them, but that everything

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Speaker 1: you do you do in integrity and above reproach. A

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Speaker 1: statesman is someone who, whether they're with you or whether

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Speaker 1: they're not with you, whether they're in your presence or

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Speaker 1: in your absence, you can trust that they're going to

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Speaker 1: do the right thing. A statesman there's someone who is

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Speaker 1: an advocate for all of those whom elected them to office,

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Speaker 1: whether they're popular or not. A statesman is someone who,

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Speaker 1: when they give you their word, you know they're gonna

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Speaker 1: make true on the word the trustworthy. And I remember

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Speaker 1: one day when I was sitting in the House of

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Speaker 1: Representatives and it was done a budget debate, so it

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Speaker 1: was late at night. Don't use that word, Okay, don't

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Speaker 1: use what word John, budget? What we we balanced the

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Speaker 1: budget in Texas. In Texas, because a budget would assume

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Speaker 1: that there's a balance money and money out, not so much.

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Speaker 1: It's a spending that's what it is. Well, we balanced

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Speaker 1: a budget every two years, because we're in the House,

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Speaker 1: we're incessant every two years. We're so we're bi annually.

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Speaker 1: And so we were having this debate on the floor

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Speaker 1: and I was sitting there and I was hearing both

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Speaker 1: Democrats and Republicans going back and forth, back and forth.

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Speaker 1: We're really no consensus, really no no end game or

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Speaker 1: vision in mind. And I was sitting there and I

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Speaker 1: was like, you know, we need more statesmen in our

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Speaker 1: country than we need politicians. And politicians to you, I

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Speaker 1: heard what Johnson, But what do you mean when you

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Speaker 1: say politicians? To me, is somebody to make decisions based

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Speaker 1: upon being reelected? A politician to me as someone who

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Speaker 1: makes the decision not based upon principle or based upon

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Speaker 1: their conviction, but really based upon you know, is this

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Speaker 1: gonna keep me in good favor it's convenience. Is this

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Speaker 1: gonna keep me in good favor with the leadership? Is

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Speaker 1: this gonna, you know, cause me any kind of contention

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Speaker 1: back home? Or is this gonna keep me as a

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Speaker 1: committee chairman? Those that's what politicians do. And politicians are

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Speaker 1: also those people who want to be elected and would

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Speaker 1: do everything they can to keep their position. Statesmen say,

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Speaker 1: I'm coming to serve for a certain period of time.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna do my job. I'm in a humble manner

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Speaker 1: with integrity to serve my community, and then I'm going home.

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Speaker 1: There's a there's a big difference between statesman and politicians.

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Speaker 1: So would you say listening to that, because if I

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Speaker 1: want to get elected, if I become quote unquote the statesman,

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Speaker 1: meaning making decisions in this room because it's right, not necessarily,

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Speaker 1: what if what my constituents want is not right? When

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Speaker 1: I faced that, because a lot of times I made

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Speaker 1: decisions where some constituents back home and say, no, we

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Speaker 1: want you to do the opposite thing. And I've had

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Speaker 1: to take some really hard votes, as John has as well.

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Speaker 1: But one thing I found is that because they respected

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Speaker 1: me for the man that I that I am, even

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Speaker 1: though I made a decision that went against what they

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Speaker 1: thought I should do, I had no problem in being

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Speaker 1: reelected because they could trust that what I said I

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Speaker 1: was gonna do and that my conviction was such that

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Speaker 1: I did what I thought was the right thing. And

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Speaker 1: they trust you even if they don't agree with you

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Speaker 1: on a If they can trust you, then you have

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Speaker 1: no problem. You should have no problems being re elected

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Speaker 1: and um may containing your position as a representative, because

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Speaker 1: it's very easy politicis that can make one decision to

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Speaker 1: day And I totally they're like John said ten years

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Speaker 1: later to make a whole different decision. Well, our constituents

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Speaker 1: don't deserve that that there's somebody who's gonna be consistent

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Speaker 1: and trustworthy, Johnna. The any parallels with football that you

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Speaker 1: learned that's helped to help you prepare for being an

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Speaker 1: elected official, Oh, I mean a lot of them. I

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Speaker 1: mean specifically coming from playing offensive why you know, the

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Speaker 1: own Sun hero. No one's talking about you until you

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Speaker 1: mess something. You know, you guys got credit for things

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Speaker 1: that we never got credit for. We only got acknowledged

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Speaker 1: for our mistakes, you know. And and and it's a

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Speaker 1: lot that so like, like we say, it's like, you know,

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Speaker 1: when you look across the political spectrum, there's a role

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Speaker 1: for everybody, and you all have different constituents that have

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Speaker 1: different needs and different wants and all that type of stuff,

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Speaker 1: and you have to represent them regardless. But at some

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Speaker 1: point you have it. On the football team, at some point,

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Speaker 1: you know, you know, you want your you know, you

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Speaker 1: want your pass breakups, you want your tackles and all that. Well,

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Speaker 1: I'm trying not to give up a sack. It's a

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Speaker 1: totally different, you know, statistic there, But at some point

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Speaker 1: we all have to come together, you know, and and

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Speaker 1: it's it gets to the point where they want to

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Speaker 1: win everything. But sometimes, like when you're backed up in

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Speaker 1: the end zone, it's good enough to get ten yards

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Speaker 1: and get your punter room to punt and change the

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Speaker 1: field position. And you know, using those analogies a lot

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Speaker 1: of time, and they do use them, but they don't

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Speaker 1: believe in them because they don't they haven't lived, they

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Speaker 1: haven't lived, and it's it's sometimes it's really hard to

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Speaker 1: express that that type of stuff. And it's also it's

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Speaker 1: also the thing like you don't want your teammate like

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Speaker 1: you know, after a game or you know, in a

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Speaker 1: press conference, throwing you under the bus, like it's like,

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Speaker 1: let's keep let's keep our differences in house, and let's

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Speaker 1: just move the ball forward. And that that's where the

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Speaker 1: politics comes in, because they go out and it's like, well,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm gonna go out here and do this

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Speaker 1: press conference and beat my chest and you know, say

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Speaker 1: this is ridiculous and this that's ridiculous. One of the

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Speaker 1: great things I know John Bayner said in the beginning

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Speaker 1: when I got elected, he goes, never say what you

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Speaker 1: won't do, because you never know what did that mean?

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Speaker 1: To you. It's it's really it's like because depending on

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Speaker 1: how deep you get into any issue and how well

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Speaker 1: you know that issue, the more the more you dig

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Speaker 1: into it, it's going to change your mind eventually. So

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Speaker 1: never say you won't do it. So it's it's really

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Speaker 1: about gaining knowledge and that's and it's learning, and it's

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Speaker 1: like Scott said, it's like it's talking to everyone possibly

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Speaker 1: you can. I know, you know, there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: members that just won't take meetings with certain people just

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Speaker 1: because of their political affiliation or you know where they're

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Speaker 1: coming from. I was like, no, I'm gonna every time

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Speaker 1: I have conversations with somebody, I'm gonna learn something from them.

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Speaker 1: So the more I could talk to people, the more

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna learn, the better I'm gonna be off, and

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Speaker 1: the better decision I can make at the end of

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Speaker 1: the day. Scott, how is winning an election similar or

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Speaker 1: dissimilar to winning the game. There are similarities because even

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Speaker 1: when in an election, you have an end goal in

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Speaker 1: mind that you want to win the election, be elected,

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Speaker 1: and serve the people. In sports, you have an end

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Speaker 1: goal in mind every Monday when we come in and

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Speaker 1: we start the process. The end goal is that on

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Speaker 1: Sunday we walk up the field winners. Um, the feeling

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Speaker 1: is somewhat similar and somewhat different. You know, you get

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Speaker 1: an exhilarating feeling because you won. I remember when I

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Speaker 1: got elected and they called and say, hey, you wont

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Speaker 1: I just remember the first thing I thought about is

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Speaker 1: how many signs I put out, how many round tables

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Speaker 1: I've done, how many doors, thousands of doors I've knocked on,

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Speaker 1: you know, how many people I've talked to. And so

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Speaker 1: when you get that phone call and said you won

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Speaker 1: the election, instance, there's a very exhilarating sense of accomplishment,

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Speaker 1: sense of whoa, I'm glad that's over in a good way,

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Speaker 1: and a sense of okay, what's next. And so there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of similarities. Got to give back the work,

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Speaker 1: you know, because as soon as I got elected, the

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Speaker 1: first after you know, that stuck in the first thing

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Speaker 1: I thought about, Okay, what are my priorities I talked

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Speaker 1: about him in the campaign. I said, okay, now you know,

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Speaker 1: now I can go implement these or talk about these

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Speaker 1: in the house. Did you colleagues treat you any differently

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Speaker 1: because you're an NFL experience? Oh yeah, I want you

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Speaker 1: a part of that group. Hey, we don't care where

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Speaker 1: you come from, but they treat you a little different

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Speaker 1: than you. I think that that kind of goes to

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Speaker 1: I think where we've kind of went off the rails

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Speaker 1: in politics because it was supposed to. You know, back

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Speaker 1: two years ago when this started, you know, you left

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Speaker 1: your print shot, you left the farm, you know, and

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Speaker 1: you came and served. Now what happens. We have a

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Speaker 1: bunch of people that mhm, study political science undergrad got

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Speaker 1: a j d. Law degree in college, and I'll throw

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Speaker 1: them under the bus right now. There are a bunch

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Speaker 1: of people that probably will never make partner in the

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Speaker 1: law firm, and all of a sudden they decided to

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Speaker 1: run for politics. We have enough of those. We need

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Speaker 1: more real people and bringing those experiences I used stay

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Speaker 1: it on the campaign trol all the time. We all fall,

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Speaker 1: we all fail, and we all get up and we

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Speaker 1: dust ourselves off in very different ways. I may get

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Speaker 1: up on my left knee first, You get up on

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Speaker 1: your right knee first. You know, my back may hurt.

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Speaker 1: I've learned lessons from that fall. But you've got to

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Speaker 1: have that that that swath of experiences to bring that

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Speaker 1: because it's not easy. It's very very complicated. That's why

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Speaker 1: it's it's really really hard to fix because they're very

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Speaker 1: confident caterd issues and say you're gonna just gonna in

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Speaker 1: a stroke of a pen and you know, two piece

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Speaker 1: of legislation, you're going to solve the country's problems. It

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Speaker 1: ain't gonna happen. It's constant, constantly going out learning, educating people,

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Speaker 1: letting people know why you did what you did and

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Speaker 1: why you didn't do what you didn't do, and all

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Speaker 1: that kind of stuff. It's it's challenging, and it's no

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Speaker 1: different than beyond the football field. You know, game plans

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Speaker 1: change week to week depending on who the opponent is,

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Speaker 1: you know, you know, and legislation changes day to day.

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Speaker 1: But the fans will get to vote on what plays

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Speaker 1: are called. They don't, but tell them about that. But

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Speaker 1: look at that. I mean, fans don't get to vote

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Speaker 1: on what plays is called. But you know, you look

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Speaker 1: at that, and it's just like it's no different than

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Speaker 1: the coaching staff, Like all right, the coach thinks this

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Speaker 1: is the best thing one So when you look at

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Speaker 1: the structure of like just say leadership in any of

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Speaker 1: those governing bodies. You know, they're the ones that have

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Speaker 1: the experience of the knowledge and all of that. Kind

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Speaker 1: of Stuft was like, this is the best path forward

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Speaker 1: for the team, Yeah, overall overall, And the players don't

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Speaker 1: really get to vote on that. No, you're just like going.

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Speaker 1: But it's a lot correct, it's not. It's a lot

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Speaker 1: like that in in in government. But you have a

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Speaker 1: saying at the end of the day, you can say no.

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Speaker 1: But if they if it makes enough sense enough people

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Speaker 1: are gonna go with it and then try to try

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Speaker 1: to run that play. It's not necessarily gonna work. So

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Speaker 1: here's a great question. Ten years with Arizona only one

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Speaker 1: year in the playoffs with me first ten years in

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Speaker 1: the league, I'm listening to the challenges. I'm listening to you, John.

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Speaker 1: When you're a perennial losing teams like that, there's a

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Speaker 1: tendency for players to become losers. So one of the

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Speaker 1: things was to be to be a thermostat, not at

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Speaker 1: thermometer thermometer, as you guys will go up and down

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Speaker 1: based on the losing instead of working your butt off regardless.

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Speaker 1: Because players don't necessarily totally control outcome of a game.

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Speaker 1: How have you been able to stay hopeful when you've

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Speaker 1: been seeing the things that you've talked about, John, have

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Speaker 1: you have have you maintained, Oh, we still can win

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Speaker 1: in this country at this? Tell them about that. Like

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Speaker 1: I said, I mean, there's there's good in everybody. You

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Speaker 1: can either choose to look at the good or you

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Speaker 1: can choose to go to the negative. Boy, So let's

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Speaker 1: just let's take the view and say what can we

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Speaker 1: agree on and let's do it. You know there's you know,

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Speaker 1: and then once we do something, because you've been on

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Speaker 1: teams when you're winning, that confidence builds and that you know,

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Speaker 1: that emotion starts to grow and it it just explodes

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Speaker 1: on you. But if you're always saying it's like woe

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Speaker 1: is me? This this? You know, this sucks and all

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Speaker 1: this kind of stuff, like winning is a lot harder

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Speaker 1: than harder than losing, because losing you just show, like

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Speaker 1: you know, when you're in the legislature, you just stow

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Speaker 1: your hands up, say no to everything. That's an easy way.

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Speaker 1: How do you find a solution? And you have to

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Speaker 1: find a good in people and find what you agree

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Speaker 1: on and actually have conversations with them. It happens more

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Speaker 1: often than not. But the unfortunate part I think, you know,

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Speaker 1: when you throw the word politics in it, it becomes

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Speaker 1: it becomes a sound bite, it becomes a tweet, it

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Speaker 1: becomes a you know, a clip on the evening news,

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Speaker 1: and that's what they're playing to. And that's the frustrating

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Speaker 1: part about it because and I've served with a lot

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Speaker 1: of them, and I'm like, why do you go out

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Speaker 1: and say that, because I know you're not that person.

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Speaker 1: You're just trying to get a hit, because you're trying

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Speaker 1: to get reelected. If you do the right thing and

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Speaker 1: you communicate with your constituents, you don't have a problem

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Speaker 1: getting reelected. But that's that's kind of the world we're living,

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Speaker 1: and it's frustrating. And that's frankly why I stepped away

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Speaker 1: from Wow Scott. At Southern University where I attended, my

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Speaker 1: brother was vice president and student government association, I didn't

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Speaker 1: care anything about governance at all, only kind up running

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Speaker 1: for sophomore class sentator. I want when I got in

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Speaker 1: the room and sort of budget that that amount of money,

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Speaker 1: it's like sixty million dollars for the student governments to govern.

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Speaker 1: I'm looking around the room. First of all I know

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Speaker 1: about me. I'm in here only because of my brother.

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Speaker 1: I'm thinking they allow us to decide what's gonna happen

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Speaker 1: with sixty million dollars. So when I have that perspective

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Speaker 1: some inexperiencing young students who had no clue about what

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Speaker 1: we were doing, did you ever feel that in the room,

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Speaker 1: what this huge now trillion dollar billion dollar budget? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and that's and I want to answer that. Then I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna go back to the course you as John, Yes,

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Speaker 1: because you go in and kind of be overwhelming, you know,

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Speaker 1: in particularly in Texas As I said, you know, we

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Speaker 1: meet every other year and we and one of our

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Speaker 1: constitutional obligations is to balance the budget. What do you

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Speaker 1: mean you meet every idience the budget. We're in session

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Speaker 1: every years, that every year. Yeah, because we're called servant

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Speaker 1: lead too, so we are people in texts that have

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Speaker 1: businesses or to have jobs, and you step away from

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Speaker 1: that like it was from the origination, the original. So

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Speaker 1: you were never really supposed to be lifetime, full time

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Speaker 1: no elected officials. That's how and so we serve you're

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Speaker 1: always elected for those two years, barring anything that happens,

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Speaker 1: but you're only in session for one and forty days

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Speaker 1: every other year. And one of the things we were

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Speaker 1: constitutionally mandated to do is balt us the budget and

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Speaker 1: textas we have about a two D D and fifteen

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Speaker 1: billion dollar budget and you're one of one fifty you know,

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Speaker 1: representatives to make a decision on passing the budget, and

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Speaker 1: so that could be quite overwhelming, especially my first session.

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Speaker 1: But the good thing about that you have a team

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Speaker 1: of people that are working together both Democratic Republican UH

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Speaker 1: and you know, a group of attorneys and c pas

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Speaker 1: and all of that that surround you to bounce your

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Speaker 1: ideas off. To get that advice from you, talk to

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Speaker 1: your constitute. You have a that's the policy. You have

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Speaker 1: things that you have to you know, fund healthcare education

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Speaker 1: in Texas is about a hundred and fifty billion, so

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Speaker 1: we only have about eleven percent discretionary funding for everything else.

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Speaker 1: Roads and this thing happened and so it can be

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Speaker 1: um as you say, you know, you know, like man,

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Speaker 1: what am I doing here? But as you get into it,

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Speaker 1: you learn, you know, if if you if you put

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Speaker 1: the effort in, you learn about the process. You learn

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Speaker 1: about it. And that's part of our job to learn

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Speaker 1: as much as we can and in order to make

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Speaker 1: a right decision to benefit the people have tastas. And

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Speaker 1: that's the point you mentioned, John, in terms of being lazy. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and that's what And that's the time these conversations that

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Speaker 1: way you meant, because it's all you know, staying away

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Speaker 1: from the political aspects. Like you you ever voted for

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Speaker 1: a piece of legislation that you're a hundred percent agree with?

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Speaker 1: Maybe one maybe when you throw it back into the

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Speaker 1: bell shaped curve. You need those, you know, those votes

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Speaker 1: in the middle. You're gonna have votes on either side.

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Speaker 1: But the only thing that most people that aren't engaged

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Speaker 1: in the process here is the stuff out on the

428
00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:43,320
Speaker 1: tails of that bell shape curve. And that that's the

429
00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:46,720
Speaker 1: frustrating part about it, which comes back to the elected

430
00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:49,520
Speaker 1: member to actually come out and do the town halls

431
00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:52,520
Speaker 1: and educate people and have those conversations. A lot of

432
00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:55,480
Speaker 1: times it's not pleasant because people like like I said,

433
00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:59,040
Speaker 1: you know, governing is parenting slash coaching. You're not gonna

434
00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:02,400
Speaker 1: like what I have to all you, but why we're

435
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:07,840
Speaker 1: doing and you know, it's just so's your responsibility to

436
00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:10,400
Speaker 1: the best you can to help your constituents. I understand.

437
00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:13,919
Speaker 1: And I used to I used to bust in the

438
00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:16,440
Speaker 1: little orphan state of New Jersey that I represented. So

439
00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:18,960
Speaker 1: South Jersey is really an orphan compared to North Jersey

440
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:22,320
Speaker 1: because most of the population is up north. And I would,

441
00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:25,200
Speaker 1: you know, I'd hope people. I guess, when's the last

442
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:27,240
Speaker 1: time you saw one of our senators in South Jersey

443
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:31,520
Speaker 1: and it wasn't an election here. Yeah, you got a point,

444
00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:36,960
Speaker 1: But that's that's the reality of what you're doing, or

445
00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:40,159
Speaker 1: is like, are you actually going out and learning the

446
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:43,679
Speaker 1: dynamics of every you know, every little thing you know

447
00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:47,480
Speaker 1: small business, whether it's you know, you know a fishing

448
00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:50,080
Speaker 1: port or you know mom and pop shop and all that.

449
00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:52,960
Speaker 1: Are you are you having those conversations, learning what their

450
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:55,720
Speaker 1: issues are and what you can do to actually help

451
00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:59,159
Speaker 1: them to make their life better because small business is

452
00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:03,440
Speaker 1: the is the engine of this country. You know, small

453
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:06,840
Speaker 1: business employees way more people than any you know, fortunate

454
00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:09,639
Speaker 1: five hunter company. Well, because when you do it, you know,

455
00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:12,560
Speaker 1: by five by ten, it's exponential, and how many small

456
00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:15,919
Speaker 1: businesses are in your backyard most people don't know. And

457
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:17,879
Speaker 1: that type of stuff you do is a member to

458
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:21,400
Speaker 1: go out and learn and meet those people. It's amazing

459
00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:23,640
Speaker 1: to see the amount of you know, the amount of

460
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:29,520
Speaker 1: just knowledge and you know, entrepreneurialship that people have that

461
00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:32,000
Speaker 1: go out and employ these types of people. It's it's amazing.

462
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:33,639
Speaker 1: But a lot of people don't put the time in

463
00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:36,400
Speaker 1: to do it because they run to the principal aspect

464
00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:38,879
Speaker 1: of it and say it's just not good enough. So

465
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:41,920
Speaker 1: once again, having the right people around you to help you, well,

466
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:46,240
Speaker 1: that's you can't. I said this, I used say it

467
00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:49,560
Speaker 1: on campaign Charlie. Like I've never done anything in my

468
00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:52,880
Speaker 1: life by myself. I've always depended on having to write

469
00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:57,359
Speaker 1: people around me, trust their their counsel, their guidance and

470
00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:00,879
Speaker 1: their experiences and trust in And you have to have

471
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:04,720
Speaker 1: trustworthy people around because you can't, you can't humanly do it.

472
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:08,520
Speaker 1: This word I just did an earlier podcast. This word

473
00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:12,080
Speaker 1: trust keep coming up. And here goes back to the

474
00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:16,760
Speaker 1: stituent constituents trusting. You talked about the statesman right while

475
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:19,120
Speaker 1: playing in the league and even as an elected official,

476
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:23,480
Speaker 1: did you guys have mentors that that kind of help

477
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:26,960
Speaker 1: you navigate and the sport of football and then navigate

478
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:30,080
Speaker 1: in and what I would call the game of politics.

479
00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:34,240
Speaker 1: If I would call it that mentors anybody comes to mind. Yeah, well,

480
00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:36,600
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously you know, you're a great mentor to meet,

481
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:40,320
Speaker 1: and not just in football, but even now in life

482
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 1: because you know exactly when I make big decisions, you're

483
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:46,639
Speaker 1: always a part of it. And so not only did

484
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:48,480
Speaker 1: you mentor me in life and in football from the

485
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:50,000
Speaker 1: time I was in college. I was a freshman in

486
00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:55,520
Speaker 1: college when I met a Nast and this is and

487
00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:58,840
Speaker 1: we still have the same type of mentor brotherhood relationship.

488
00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:02,439
Speaker 1: And so but because of that, I've been able to

489
00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:05,679
Speaker 1: not only receive from you and the other mentors that

490
00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:08,200
Speaker 1: you know in our circle, but now I can take

491
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:11,399
Speaker 1: that and mentor other people in life now in sport

492
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:14,359
Speaker 1: and politics and now my current assignment at the White House.

493
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:17,719
Speaker 1: And you know, you said some a while ago about

494
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:21,800
Speaker 1: are we hopeful, you know, and how can we trust

495
00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:24,920
Speaker 1: that it's going to be good? And obviously you know,

496
00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:29,040
Speaker 1: and and agreeing with John, yes, I'm hopeful. And in

497
00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:32,119
Speaker 1: my current role, you know at the White House Opportunity

498
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:36,240
Speaker 1: and Revitalization Council, h you always say something, as you said,

499
00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:40,240
Speaker 1: begin with the end in mind, right, and the end

500
00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:43,600
Speaker 1: goal is in our country, we got thirty five million people,

501
00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:47,320
Speaker 1: close to fifty million people to live in poverty. So

502
00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:50,320
Speaker 1: the end goal is how do we not only eradicate poverty,

503
00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:52,360
Speaker 1: but how do we lift these people up or help

504
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:55,840
Speaker 1: them to lift themselves up out of poverty and to

505
00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 1: fulfill that God given potential and to live self sustain

506
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:04,920
Speaker 1: in lives. Well, this legislation, with the tax cuts and

507
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:10,720
Speaker 1: jobs in it created the opportunity zones and inside of

508
00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:13,360
Speaker 1: these opportunities on you know, that was about partisan, you

509
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:17,160
Speaker 1: know decision, because poverty doesn't care what party you're in.

510
00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:21,880
Speaker 1: Poverty is a systemic issue in our country. And this

511
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:25,720
Speaker 1: word trust comes up because now it's can we trust

512
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:30,480
Speaker 1: our elected officials? Can we trust you know, the decision

513
00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:33,680
Speaker 1: that has been made by the President, the administration, and

514
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:40,400
Speaker 1: now really myself, that this particular policy will cross political lines,

515
00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:45,280
Speaker 1: cross generational lines, cross socio economic lines, and actually bring

516
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:49,120
Speaker 1: about a viable solution. And I've been in this position

517
00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:52,360
Speaker 1: of last year and what I have seen is that

518
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:55,360
Speaker 1: Democrats and Republicans have had to come together at the

519
00:29:55,440 --> 00:30:02,080
Speaker 1: same table with local stakeholders, community of faith leaders, education leaders,

520
00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:05,080
Speaker 1: what have you, to look at the pain of the community.

521
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:07,720
Speaker 1: But also now look at the potential and the promise

522
00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:10,600
Speaker 1: in the community. And there's a trust factor there is

523
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:13,280
Speaker 1: because they have to trust that what I'm telling them,

524
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:16,440
Speaker 1: this the legislation that I'm caring is law, this council

525
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:18,720
Speaker 1: that I'm stilling, and they have to trust that this

526
00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:21,080
Speaker 1: will work if we do a B and C and

527
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:25,560
Speaker 1: come together. And so I'm hopeful because I'm seeing results

528
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 1: that are bringing people together across party lines. And you

529
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:32,560
Speaker 1: also have to trust that the bureaucrats that are actually

530
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:37,400
Speaker 1: enforcing the legislation you passed are doing it in the

531
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:41,440
Speaker 1: same the same spirit, in the same spirit. And is

532
00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:44,480
Speaker 1: a little bit difficult because now you get into legal

533
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:48,200
Speaker 1: interpretations of a piece of legislation, and then you gotta

534
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:50,560
Speaker 1: go back and then the law year later and do

535
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:53,600
Speaker 1: all that and then that that gets even more touching.

536
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:56,640
Speaker 1: And when you mention bureaucrats, what exactly do you mean?

537
00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:01,160
Speaker 1: Think about how many people work for you know, State

538
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:04,959
Speaker 1: of Texas or the United States federal government. You know,

539
00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:08,760
Speaker 1: once you pass something into law, now they have to

540
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:12,240
Speaker 1: implement the law. That's their job. But there are legal

541
00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:15,800
Speaker 1: interpretations to everything. It's like, I mean, you know, you've

542
00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:18,239
Speaker 1: handed a contract to two different attorneys and got two

543
00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:22,959
Speaker 1: different answers. And that's that's part of the thing when

544
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:26,640
Speaker 1: you're trying to craft legislation, to try to pinpoint it,

545
00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:29,800
Speaker 1: but you don't. The problem is when you pinpoint it

546
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:33,640
Speaker 1: so direct, people fall out of that. They fall out

547
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:36,160
Speaker 1: of that cone because you're you're pointing at one issue,

548
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:40,200
Speaker 1: but what about the issue that's you know, you know,

549
00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:42,920
Speaker 1: ten feet outside that one, what about the next fifteen?

550
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:46,840
Speaker 1: So you're entrusting a lot of the bureaucrats that actually

551
00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:50,000
Speaker 1: implement these laws to do the right thing and interpret

552
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:53,320
Speaker 1: the spirit of the legislation you're doing, because when you

553
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:55,760
Speaker 1: pinpoint it, that's law and they can't vary from it.

554
00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:59,080
Speaker 1: So you have to give them some discretion and the

555
00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:02,360
Speaker 1: actual legislation. So what I hear, John, I saw a

556
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:07,000
Speaker 1: picture as you're talking, so um so all of a sudden,

557
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:10,800
Speaker 1: now passed I saw passes. So the people passed to

558
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:14,640
Speaker 1: the elected official their desires and they're trusting you're gonna

559
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:17,800
Speaker 1: catch the ball and do something with it right what

560
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:20,440
Speaker 1: they've asked you to do, what their hearts desire. And

561
00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:22,840
Speaker 1: then now you're telling me, once you guys voted in

562
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:27,880
Speaker 1: not a bureaucrats, they get the ball. That's the player

563
00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:32,960
Speaker 1: that was called now and then you mentioned the word

564
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:35,680
Speaker 1: trust against You got to drop the past. You know,

565
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:38,120
Speaker 1: you can. You know it could be an a dr touchdown.

566
00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:40,560
Speaker 1: You know, it could be a five yard swing pass.

567
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:43,920
Speaker 1: You don't know, and that's that's the reality of it.

568
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:48,040
Speaker 1: But that's just like on your team. He said, you

569
00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:51,880
Speaker 1: in Arizona for ten years and y'all didn't have a

570
00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:53,520
Speaker 1: lot of winning. Sea went to the players one time,

571
00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:56,640
Speaker 1: but one thing that happened. They trusted you and they

572
00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:59,640
Speaker 1: followed you and your leadership because they saw what you did.

573
00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:03,360
Speaker 1: You trusted the guys on your defense because you saw

574
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:06,080
Speaker 1: how they practice, You saw how they prepared. You know,

575
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:07,840
Speaker 1: it's the same way with John on the offensive line.

576
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:09,880
Speaker 1: He had to trust those four or five guys with

577
00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:13,040
Speaker 1: him that when they made that call, that everybody was

578
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:15,680
Speaker 1: gonna do the right thing because of preparations. It's the

579
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:18,920
Speaker 1: same thing here. You know. You you spend hours with

580
00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:21,280
Speaker 1: the men and women that you served with, and you

581
00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:23,960
Speaker 1: see how they prepare or not. You know, you see

582
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:26,120
Speaker 1: how they treat their constituents, you see how they run

583
00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:30,440
Speaker 1: their office, you see how they treat their staff members. Right, Oh,

584
00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:32,960
Speaker 1: it's all very talent, and so you know who you

585
00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:35,640
Speaker 1: can trust and who you cannot trust, and that circle

586
00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:38,800
Speaker 1: becomes smaller. Look when you said even how they treat

587
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:41,440
Speaker 1: their staff members, I saw a chuckle or something that

588
00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:43,320
Speaker 1: hit you, John, Well was it. There's a lot of

589
00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:46,120
Speaker 1: people that don't treat their staffs right, and that speaks

590
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:49,360
Speaker 1: something to you. It shows up when you speak to them.

591
00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:53,000
Speaker 1: It's very talent. It's just like we treat people that

592
00:33:53,040 --> 00:34:00,400
Speaker 1: are supporting. You know, I have the staff of sixteen people, family,

593
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:03,640
Speaker 1: like I still talked. I still talked to him, you know,

594
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:06,400
Speaker 1: every other couple of months, you know, to this day,

595
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:08,359
Speaker 1: and bounce ideas off of them and all that kind

596
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:12,520
Speaker 1: of stuff. They're family, family because they have your back,

597
00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:16,840
Speaker 1: you know. And it's not I mean, you're gonna make mistakes,

598
00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:19,160
Speaker 1: but you know it's like we told you, you know,

599
00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:21,960
Speaker 1: we recommended this to you and all this kind of stuff.

600
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:24,560
Speaker 1: But you know, ultimately, you know, six months later, it

601
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:27,000
Speaker 1: was a bad decision. All right, Well, let's regroup. I'm

602
00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:28,960
Speaker 1: not gonna I'm not holding a grudge against you. I

603
00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:33,719
Speaker 1: love you. We all make mistakes. I used to sit

604
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:37,080
Speaker 1: on campaign trail. There's only one perfect person to ever

605
00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:39,160
Speaker 1: walked the face of his thirth and he sit next

606
00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:43,680
Speaker 1: to sits next to the Lord eyes. Final question couple

607
00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:48,839
Speaker 1: to Final Questions number one. If former legends are thinking

608
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:54,440
Speaker 1: about politics, what thought should they have if they're considered

609
00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:58,680
Speaker 1: doing it? What they're willing to give up? Can it

610
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:03,680
Speaker 1: cost you? It costs you a lot? Mhm. Are you

611
00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:06,719
Speaker 1: willing to give up your time with your family? Are

612
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:10,799
Speaker 1: you willing to have your life be an open door?

613
00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:15,800
Speaker 1: Are you willing to give up your income? You know,

614
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:19,360
Speaker 1: depending on what you run for? Are you willing to

615
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:26,400
Speaker 1: it's an income drop your special intentions. Money takes us,

616
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:30,160
Speaker 1: you know. So what what price are you willing to

617
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:32,359
Speaker 1: be giving up? What are you willing to give up?

618
00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:38,759
Speaker 1: Final questions which if you had to choose again, would

619
00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:42,880
Speaker 1: you choose football and politics? I'm all in football, man,

620
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:49,080
Speaker 1: this is my passion, this is my life. Yeah. Um,

621
00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:57,080
Speaker 1: I would choose football because football was the the catalytic

622
00:35:57,239 --> 00:35:59,920
Speaker 1: tool that the Lord used that I can do it.

623
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:02,440
Speaker 1: I do. Now. You know the other thing about football?

624
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:07,480
Speaker 1: You know, it's like politics is very analytical and brainy

625
00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:11,560
Speaker 1: and hetty. So is so is football. But you know what,

626
00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:14,000
Speaker 1: on football field, I can go and pose my will

627
00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:18,279
Speaker 1: on another man. You can do that probably difference. I

628
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:21,600
Speaker 1: have way more control on the football field than I do.

629
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:25,480
Speaker 1: It's co signing a piece of legislation. There's nothing like it.

630
00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:29,239
Speaker 1: You know, we've been in the highest halls of Congress,

631
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:33,840
Speaker 1: White House, you know, literally the episode of our country

632
00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:36,520
Speaker 1: in the free world that we're very blessed to do so.

633
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:39,960
Speaker 1: But the thing about football, there is nothing that you

634
00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:43,880
Speaker 1: can compare to being an NFL player, and I'm so

635
00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:46,279
Speaker 1: grateful for that experience. So I would choose football any

636
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:49,240
Speaker 1: day of the week. And because of the transferable skills

637
00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:52,200
Speaker 1: and the opportunity it gives you to do things outside

638
00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:54,880
Speaker 1: of football, which could be for the next podcast. I

639
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:58,560
Speaker 1: think it is really unbelievable. John and Scott, this has

640
00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:00,879
Speaker 1: been great man. Thank you asked for being in here,

641
00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:05,040
Speaker 1: thanks for listening in The best is yet to come.

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Speaker 1: M This has been the NFL Legends podcast. To provide

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Speaker 1: feedback or request a topic for discussion, email us at

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Speaker 1: NFL Legends at NFL dot com. Yeah,