1 00:00:00,760 --> 00:00:19,840 Speaker 1: You're listening to an Airwave media podcast. Hi everybody, and 2 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:22,279 Speaker 1: welcome or welcome back to Who Did What Now? The 3 00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:25,360 Speaker 1: history podcast That's not your history class with me your 4 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:29,200 Speaker 1: host Kerry Charlewood, history harlot and reader of books. 5 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:33,720 Speaker 2: Well, it has been a week. As per usual, it 6 00:00:33,840 --> 00:00:36,800 Speaker 2: just seems to continuously be a week. 7 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:41,159 Speaker 1: So I have some news and stuff I want to 8 00:00:41,159 --> 00:00:44,479 Speaker 1: talk about, but first I want to say thank you, 9 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:46,240 Speaker 1: thank you, thank you to everyone who has been writing 10 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:51,280 Speaker 1: and reviewing, not only because you're awesome, because you're really 11 00:00:51,320 --> 00:00:53,600 Speaker 1: fucking sweet and if you're not sweet, you're funny. Sometimes 12 00:00:53,640 --> 00:00:56,959 Speaker 1: you're both, which I love you. Folks have all been 13 00:00:57,200 --> 00:01:02,440 Speaker 1: just so fucking lovely. So basically in order to move 14 00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:04,640 Speaker 1: up the charts and stay in the charts, like downloads 15 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:06,920 Speaker 1: is part of it, but also is rating and reviewing. 16 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:08,280 Speaker 2: So if you're writing review. 17 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:11,200 Speaker 1: Of five stars, it just boosts you up the crazy 18 00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:13,440 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts algorithm. 19 00:01:13,880 --> 00:01:15,520 Speaker 2: And when you like. 20 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:17,240 Speaker 1: Write a review, and no matter what you say, it 21 00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:19,480 Speaker 1: doesn't matter what you say. You can literally say anything, 22 00:01:19,760 --> 00:01:23,200 Speaker 1: but the fact that you've said something boosts that. So 23 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:26,960 Speaker 1: you could just be like I enjoy banana bread, would 24 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:30,160 Speaker 1: just still bost it and as such. Quite a lot 25 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:32,840 Speaker 1: of podcast hosts, you know, they'll say, you know, it 26 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:35,319 Speaker 1: isn't for our egos, you know, I'm gonna be honest, 27 00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:39,200 Speaker 1: it is absolutely also for my ego because you see 28 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:43,080 Speaker 1: so many amazing, lovely things that it just fills me 29 00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:47,480 Speaker 1: with joy, especially especially when the days are that little 30 00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:49,920 Speaker 1: bit tougher or you know, think if I'm in a 31 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:51,360 Speaker 1: bit more pain and stuff like that. 32 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:53,920 Speaker 2: You know, it's just they just. 33 00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:56,240 Speaker 1: Writing up my date and I am And I'm not 34 00:01:56,280 --> 00:01:59,080 Speaker 1: going to deny that, Like, you make me so happy, 35 00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:01,240 Speaker 1: not that I be happy if you weren't, you know, 36 00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:04,480 Speaker 1: saying nice things about me, but it just helps, you know, 37 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:08,760 Speaker 1: it just really makes me feel good. And the fact 38 00:02:08,919 --> 00:02:12,440 Speaker 1: that you appreciate what I'm doing and that you really 39 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:15,560 Speaker 1: enjoy what I'm doing, it makes it. It makes it 40 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:18,560 Speaker 1: really really worth it because I can I can hear you, 41 00:02:18,639 --> 00:02:22,080 Speaker 1: I can see you. People also DM me on Instagram, 42 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:25,000 Speaker 1: and I haven't responded to anybody in a wee while, 43 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:27,240 Speaker 1: just because I've been so busy and I don't want 44 00:02:27,280 --> 00:02:31,079 Speaker 1: to give somebody a half hours response because I don't 45 00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:37,600 Speaker 1: do anything by halves. And speaking of that, apparently I'm 46 00:02:37,639 --> 00:02:41,760 Speaker 1: not happy unless I am far too busy because I 47 00:02:41,760 --> 00:02:45,080 Speaker 1: I just cannot give myself a break. So on top 48 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:49,880 Speaker 1: of redecorating a house literally just to make it livable, 49 00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:52,880 Speaker 1: not for any sort of I mean a wee bit 50 00:02:52,919 --> 00:02:55,000 Speaker 1: of aesthetic. Obviously, if I'm going to live somewhere, I 51 00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:58,320 Speaker 1: want to enjoy it. But so not only is that 52 00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:01,400 Speaker 1: part of the process. I'm doing a few events. There's 53 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:04,200 Speaker 1: a few things in the works that's coming up. I'm 54 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:09,239 Speaker 1: also curating social media for an international arts festival. 55 00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:14,080 Speaker 2: And I decided, on. 56 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:17,920 Speaker 1: Top of all of this, along with my job, my 57 00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:21,680 Speaker 1: eye employment, and you know, actually seeing my children and 58 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:25,560 Speaker 1: also managing to see my boyfriend, which is there's just 59 00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:29,119 Speaker 1: a lot going on, I decided to add on top 60 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:33,000 Speaker 1: of that, I'm going to write a fucking book. Not 61 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:35,440 Speaker 1: a book about fucking. I mean, maybe a wee bit 62 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:40,600 Speaker 1: about fucking, but not completely about fucking. So see what 63 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:43,200 Speaker 1: happened was, if you follow me on TikTok, you've probably 64 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:46,440 Speaker 1: seen me rant in the garden in my pajamas about 65 00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:49,280 Speaker 1: a bunch of things. So I was doing some research 66 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:51,760 Speaker 1: for something that I was going to talk about on 67 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:53,480 Speaker 1: the podcast, but now I'm going to put in the 68 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:58,160 Speaker 1: book instead. This is what sparked it all off, because 69 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:00,720 Speaker 1: I had a few ideas because a friend of mine, 70 00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:05,760 Speaker 1: Mark from the Bearded Badger Storytelling the podcast, he had 71 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:07,680 Speaker 1: always said to me, you know, have a couple of 72 00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:09,240 Speaker 1: books in the back of your head, you know, And 73 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:11,760 Speaker 1: I did. I had some plans, and I had, you know, 74 00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:15,240 Speaker 1: whispers and ideas, and I had a few things planned out. 75 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:17,520 Speaker 1: And then I was doing research and I'm reading this 76 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 1: book about basically wartime. It's a wartime book by a historian, 77 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 1: and I was reading this. The way I see it is, 78 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:27,560 Speaker 1: if you're going to write a book, the whole purpose 79 00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:31,760 Speaker 1: of writing the book is to tell a narrative story. 80 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:35,240 Speaker 1: If you're writing a nonfiction book, you need a narrative story, 81 00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:35,920 Speaker 1: like you'll see that. 82 00:04:35,880 --> 00:04:37,680 Speaker 2: Some of them what they'll do is they'll have like 83 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:38,320 Speaker 2: a section in. 84 00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:43,640 Speaker 1: The middle for photos or documents things like that. Fine, 85 00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:46,960 Speaker 1: even fiction books do that sometimes. I'm fairly certain when 86 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:50,000 Speaker 1: I was younger, I had a hardback copy of Black 87 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:52,599 Speaker 1: Beauty and there was just like two sections which was 88 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:57,039 Speaker 1: just artwork regarding that people had made about the book. 89 00:04:57,080 --> 00:04:58,919 Speaker 1: Black Bearty like and it was just or maybe just 90 00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:03,040 Speaker 1: like random pain things of horses. I'm not entirely sure now, 91 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:06,640 Speaker 1: but anyway, my point so I'm reading this book. So basically, 92 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:08,760 Speaker 1: I'm reading this book of espionage and World War Two 93 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:14,080 Speaker 1: in Britain, and page after page it was a copy 94 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:19,039 Speaker 1: and paste effectively of reports and they were like separated 95 00:05:19,279 --> 00:05:21,039 Speaker 1: with you know, a sentence or two. 96 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:22,600 Speaker 2: And it's like, if I wanted. 97 00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:25,520 Speaker 1: To read the reports, I would just go read the reports, 98 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:27,440 Speaker 1: like I can get them through the Freedom of Information Act. 99 00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:29,480 Speaker 1: It's not difficult, you know. I mean, if you really 100 00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:30,960 Speaker 1: wanted them there, put them in the back of the book, 101 00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:33,039 Speaker 1: you know, something like that. But it really took me 102 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:37,920 Speaker 1: out for context. Like I am someone who quite happily, 103 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:41,560 Speaker 1: you know, scours through like shipping manifests, like I was 104 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:43,080 Speaker 1: doing this with my uncle a few weeks ago. I 105 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:46,760 Speaker 1: was literally looking through a shipping manifest from nineteen twelve 106 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:50,280 Speaker 1: May nineteen twelve. You know, I go through reports and 107 00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 1: documents and really dry materials all the time, which is 108 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:56,000 Speaker 1: usually how I then explain things to. 109 00:05:55,960 --> 00:05:57,679 Speaker 2: People on like this or TikTok. 110 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:00,800 Speaker 1: You know, I read the shit, you know, But like 111 00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:03,599 Speaker 1: that being in a book was just so weird to me, 112 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 1: because when you're just shoving in documents over and over again, 113 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:11,440 Speaker 1: and with a couple of sentences, and then this happened, 114 00:06:11,839 --> 00:06:14,279 Speaker 1: you know, and then this happened, and this report was 115 00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:16,440 Speaker 1: received on such and such a few days. 116 00:06:16,279 --> 00:06:19,120 Speaker 2: Later, this report came through, you know, Like, all it 117 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:21,480 Speaker 2: does is show me that you do not know how to. 118 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:25,200 Speaker 1: Convey this information in an hour toive format, like and 119 00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:28,479 Speaker 1: if you cannot tell me the story, don't fucking write 120 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:29,120 Speaker 1: a book. 121 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 2: Just don't do it. 122 00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:33,840 Speaker 1: And it's yet another pale and stale male historian who, 123 00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:36,680 Speaker 1: instead of you know, just telling the contents of it, 124 00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:38,280 Speaker 1: felt they need to just paste it. 125 00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:38,920 Speaker 2: I don't. 126 00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:43,360 Speaker 1: I know, it's silly to get like I rate about it, 127 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:47,040 Speaker 1: but it really really bothered me because for me reading, 128 00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:49,400 Speaker 1: I like to be immersed in it. Like there are 129 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:52,159 Speaker 1: ways to show this information. You can index it, you 130 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:55,960 Speaker 1: shove it in the appendices, you can again put those 131 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:59,359 Speaker 1: sort of pictures copies of the documents in the you know, 132 00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:00,839 Speaker 1: the center of the thing that people do. 133 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:02,480 Speaker 2: There's probably a. 134 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:04,600 Speaker 1: Proper term for it, but I don't know what it is. 135 00:07:07,839 --> 00:07:08,640 Speaker 3: Just do the thing. 136 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:12,680 Speaker 1: And this book just put me on a war path, 137 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:15,360 Speaker 1: like to the point that I just straight up decided, 138 00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:19,160 Speaker 1: you know, no more waiting around no more, Dawson. Nah, 139 00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:21,600 Speaker 1: I'm just gonna fucking do it, and I'm gonna write 140 00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:22,080 Speaker 1: a book. 141 00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:25,320 Speaker 2: So that was bad enough. That was bad enough. 142 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:28,080 Speaker 1: But the icon on top of the cake for me, 143 00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 1: you see, was the manner in which the woman in 144 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:35,840 Speaker 1: the story was being portrayed was kind of sexist? 145 00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:39,520 Speaker 2: Is it kind of sexist? It was very much sexist. 146 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:41,240 Speaker 1: But I know what you're thinking, you're thinking, quite your 147 00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:43,960 Speaker 1: jibber jabber in fact me, In fact you, I will. 148 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:46,040 Speaker 2: But first we're gonna get our source on. 149 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:50,800 Speaker 1: We have Typhoid Mary, an urban historical by Anthony Bourdaine, 150 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:56,240 Speaker 1: Typhoid Mary Captive to the Public Health by Judith Waalzer Levitt, 151 00:07:56,680 --> 00:08:00,960 Speaker 1: The Curious Career of Typhoid Mary by George Ace, and 152 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:04,920 Speaker 1: Typhoid Fever a history by Elise Mara and Richard Adler. 153 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:08,160 Speaker 1: And of course we have our favorite history dot com, 154 00:08:08,200 --> 00:08:12,640 Speaker 1: Biography dot com, and the Smithsonian dot com. Are you 155 00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:17,960 Speaker 1: sitting comfortably good? Then they'll begin Typhoid Mary, not her 156 00:08:17,960 --> 00:08:21,040 Speaker 1: given name, obviously that would be a bit weird. Oh 157 00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:23,000 Speaker 1: what have you chosen to name your child? Oh? 158 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:26,239 Speaker 2: You know, chicken pox, Tony Salmonellruth. 159 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:30,960 Speaker 1: No, No, typhoid Mary was born Mary Mallin on the 160 00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:35,480 Speaker 1: twenty th of September eighteen sixty nine in Cookstown, County 161 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:39,960 Speaker 1: Tyrone in Northern Ireland, although then it would have just 162 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:44,880 Speaker 1: been Ireland. There wasn't a partision at the time so Ireland. 163 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:48,079 Speaker 1: So during the eighteen hundred there was like mass immigration 164 00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:50,760 Speaker 1: from Ireland to America. 165 00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:52,200 Speaker 2: So there was a couple of reasons. 166 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:53,880 Speaker 1: There was one big one, but there's a couple of 167 00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:56,560 Speaker 1: them that all sort of play together. There's no home rule, 168 00:08:56,800 --> 00:08:59,679 Speaker 1: so Ireland at the time was ruled by Britain, and so. 169 00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:02,319 Speaker 2: They have no right to govern themselves. 170 00:09:02,520 --> 00:09:06,040 Speaker 1: Everything is by the crown. Everything comes to the ruling 171 00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:10,880 Speaker 1: class of Britain. Even the landlords in Ireland were generally 172 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:15,080 Speaker 1: of British descent and they would have more rights than 173 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:15,800 Speaker 1: you know. 174 00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:19,600 Speaker 2: Irish people, so this was like a big issue with that. 175 00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:23,559 Speaker 1: As well comes this religious conflict, so you've got you know, 176 00:09:23,679 --> 00:09:28,040 Speaker 1: Catholics versus Protestants. You'll notice that quite a large number 177 00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:31,400 Speaker 1: of the people who were immigrating they were Irish Catholics, 178 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:34,679 Speaker 1: which leads me to the next point, which is people 179 00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 1: were fucking poor, especially Catholics. You'd see more money would 180 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:43,560 Speaker 1: be in the Protestant areas. I think they even touched 181 00:09:43,559 --> 00:09:45,400 Speaker 1: on that on the tav Stories Dewy Girls. They're like 182 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:51,520 Speaker 1: Protestants have more money. Yeah they did, so, so like 183 00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:54,560 Speaker 1: that was that's just how things were. And then the 184 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:57,760 Speaker 1: biggest mother fucking factor for people immigrating in the eighteen 185 00:09:57,840 --> 00:10:02,520 Speaker 1: hundreds was the famine. So Ireland actually had two famines. 186 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:05,280 Speaker 1: There's angret to Moore, which is the large hunker, the 187 00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:08,080 Speaker 1: big hunger, and ungor To Bug which is a little hunger. 188 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:11,440 Speaker 1: So the Great Famine was between eighteen forty five and 189 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:17,120 Speaker 1: eighteen fifty two. It was horrifically devastating, Like there was 190 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:21,600 Speaker 1: mass mass immigration during that and it was huge and 191 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:26,880 Speaker 1: the population of Ireland still hasn't recovered from that, Like 192 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:30,120 Speaker 1: it just hasn't. So in eighteen seventy nine there was 193 00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:34,120 Speaker 1: like wee famine and Gorta bug, right, it wasn't as 194 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:37,080 Speaker 1: bad obviously as you know, the Great Famine. There's a 195 00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:40,439 Speaker 1: reason ones you know, big and one small. Also, I'm 196 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:42,400 Speaker 1: just gonna throw this in here because I can, because 197 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:44,280 Speaker 1: it's my podcast and I can say what I fucking want. 198 00:10:44,559 --> 00:10:48,160 Speaker 1: We always talk about potatoes, like we always talk about 199 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:51,640 Speaker 1: the blight, the potato blight, and we rarely discussed the 200 00:10:51,679 --> 00:10:57,560 Speaker 1: fact that Britain was taking food, grain, all that kind 201 00:10:57,600 --> 00:11:01,280 Speaker 1: of stuff from from Ireland and using it to feed Britain. 202 00:11:01,679 --> 00:11:04,480 Speaker 1: And we never fucking talk about the chickens. So there 203 00:11:04,559 --> 00:11:08,960 Speaker 1: was cholera in chickens and this was a massive fucking issue, 204 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:11,600 Speaker 1: but we never bring up the chickens. It's always like, lady, lady, 205 00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:13,080 Speaker 1: la oh ye Irish. 206 00:11:12,720 --> 00:11:15,800 Speaker 2: In their potatoes. It's like, what about the chickens. You 207 00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:16,920 Speaker 2: never mentioned the fucking chickens. 208 00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:20,280 Speaker 1: Okay, I'm sorry, I'm ranting, but anyway, So eighteen seventy 209 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:23,800 Speaker 1: nine there's like a smaller famine. So during Mary's lifetime 210 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:28,199 Speaker 1: there is a second famine. Mary is from Tyrone, and Tyrone, 211 00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:33,880 Speaker 1: surprisingly enough, isn't exactly the richest of places. So let's 212 00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:36,520 Speaker 1: get back to Mary. So it's eighteen eighty three and 213 00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:39,640 Speaker 1: Mary is fourteen years old. I've had places state that 214 00:11:39,679 --> 00:11:42,720 Speaker 1: she was fifteen, But if she traveled in eighteen eighty 215 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:45,680 Speaker 1: three and she was born in eighteen sixty nine, she 216 00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:51,640 Speaker 1: was fourteen. Motherfuckers, thirteen maybe fourteen, but she definitely wasn't fifteen, 217 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:56,320 Speaker 1: because that's just math. Okay, it's just sums anyway, So 218 00:11:57,120 --> 00:12:01,440 Speaker 1: Mary's set sail. She leaves Ulster and heads for a 219 00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:05,920 Speaker 1: new life in the Americas. She probably sailed from Derry 220 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:07,280 Speaker 1: because I was looking at a map, right, I was 221 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:10,520 Speaker 1: looking at a map. Derry is much closer to Tyrone 222 00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:11,920 Speaker 1: than Belfast is. 223 00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:13,880 Speaker 2: The boat ride to ELL's. 224 00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:17,640 Speaker 1: Island probably would have taken like up to up to 225 00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:21,840 Speaker 1: twelve weeks, so after a three month jaunt, which, let's 226 00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:25,839 Speaker 1: face it, probably not the most comfortable of sailings. If 227 00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:28,760 Speaker 1: you ever get a chance to go inside of famine 228 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:31,679 Speaker 1: replica famine ship, which I would not suggest you do 229 00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:35,760 Speaker 1: if you're claustrophobic, because it's very dark and it's very cramped, 230 00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:38,719 Speaker 1: and it just kind of gives you an idea of 231 00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:41,240 Speaker 1: what of what the sailing would be like. It's it's 232 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:45,480 Speaker 1: very close quarters. It's it's not pleasant by any means. 233 00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:48,000 Speaker 1: But you know, these are people who used to live 234 00:12:48,280 --> 00:12:52,440 Speaker 1: on dirt floors in winter, so I mean, you know, 235 00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:55,520 Speaker 1: made of hardier stuff than the most of us. 236 00:12:55,559 --> 00:12:58,199 Speaker 2: Probably. Yeah, After three months. 237 00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:01,920 Speaker 1: At sea, she makes it to l Island, gets through processing, 238 00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:04,920 Speaker 1: and then goes to New York and New York City 239 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:08,079 Speaker 1: and stays with her and an uncle for a time 240 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:11,160 Speaker 1: and fairy while she gets work as a domestic, which 241 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:15,200 Speaker 1: is you know, very typical of girls and women of 242 00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:17,600 Speaker 1: her age in that era. So she got a job 243 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:20,720 Speaker 1: as a domestic, as a maid, and then as it 244 00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:23,880 Speaker 1: turns out, she's actually she's actually a dap hand. 245 00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:26,480 Speaker 2: In the kitchen. She's a pretty good cook, she. 246 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:29,680 Speaker 1: Has skill and flair, and so she's like, this is it, 247 00:13:29,880 --> 00:13:30,600 Speaker 1: this is the job. 248 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:31,600 Speaker 2: I'm going to do this. 249 00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:36,280 Speaker 1: Also, in addition, furthermore, working in the kitchen and being 250 00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:39,560 Speaker 1: a cook earned her much more money than if she 251 00:13:39,679 --> 00:13:42,360 Speaker 1: was just a maid. If you're good at something and 252 00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:44,080 Speaker 1: it pays you more, of. 253 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:44,960 Speaker 2: Course you're going to do it. 254 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:48,160 Speaker 1: So, as far as we can tell, Mary was working 255 00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:51,240 Speaker 1: as a cook for all of these like affluent, these 256 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:55,559 Speaker 1: rich New York families between nineteen hundred and nineteen oh seven. 257 00:13:56,200 --> 00:14:00,200 Speaker 1: What exactly she was doing between you know, landing in 258 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:03,240 Speaker 1: New York City and in the nineteen hundreds, that's seven 259 00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:07,040 Speaker 1: year stretch. We know she was a domestic servant, but 260 00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:10,600 Speaker 1: whether or not she was cooking it all through that process, 261 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:12,119 Speaker 1: we just don't. 262 00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:13,640 Speaker 2: Have all the information. It just isn't there. 263 00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:16,800 Speaker 1: Now, before I go any further, I should probably explain 264 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:20,600 Speaker 1: what typhoid fever is. So, it's this bacterial infection that 265 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:24,720 Speaker 1: can spread throughout the body because it affects a bunch 266 00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:30,560 Speaker 1: of organs. It's caused by this bacterium called Salmonella typhe, 267 00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:35,800 Speaker 1: which is related to the salmonella that causes food poison 268 00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:40,920 Speaker 1: in so typhoid fever itself, it's really fucking contagious, and 269 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:44,520 Speaker 1: the bacteria is passed out of their body. 270 00:14:44,880 --> 00:14:50,840 Speaker 2: Generally through their excrement. That's right, you're pooh. 271 00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:54,240 Speaker 1: You can also less common, but you can also come 272 00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:56,560 Speaker 1: out through your pay too, So it can come out 273 00:14:56,560 --> 00:15:01,480 Speaker 1: through urine or fecal matter. So if someone consume something, 274 00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:04,720 Speaker 1: whether they're eating food or drinking water that has been 275 00:15:04,760 --> 00:15:10,920 Speaker 1: contaminated by like a teeny weeny amount of fecal matter 276 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:15,680 Speaker 1: or urine, they can become infected with the bacteria and 277 00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:19,440 Speaker 1: as a result get typhoid fever. So kids are more 278 00:15:19,520 --> 00:15:24,680 Speaker 1: likely to actually contract typhoid fever because their immune systems 279 00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:28,840 Speaker 1: are still developing, but children actually have milder symptoms than 280 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:30,000 Speaker 1: adults if they get it. 281 00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:33,360 Speaker 2: Speaking of symptoms, the main symptoms are. 282 00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:38,800 Speaker 1: Fever, headache sort of you know, ches and pains, and stuff, fatigue, 283 00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:40,920 Speaker 1: cough and constipation. 284 00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:44,400 Speaker 2: Now there are also like other bits to it, like 285 00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:45,400 Speaker 2: you know, you. 286 00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:48,080 Speaker 1: Can get a rash, you can feel sick, you can 287 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:55,800 Speaker 1: have nausea, stomach pains, and everyone's favorite symptom of any disease, diarrhea. 288 00:15:56,760 --> 00:16:00,520 Speaker 1: And if typhoid fever isn't treated, you know, pretty sharpish, 289 00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:03,440 Speaker 1: the symptoms can get worse to the point where it 290 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:06,720 Speaker 1: can actually kill you. So at the turn of the century, 291 00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:11,600 Speaker 1: in New York City, typhoid fever was sort of an epidemic. 292 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:15,920 Speaker 1: There were multiple, multiple outbreaks in New York alone, and 293 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:19,960 Speaker 1: it was seen as like a poor people disease because 294 00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:22,359 Speaker 1: it was in areas where you know, there was poverty 295 00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:28,200 Speaker 1: or lower income, more crowded, less you know, sanitation regulation, 296 00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:33,680 Speaker 1: and because you know, antibiotics were developed to treat it. 297 00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:38,000 Speaker 1: One in ten cases of typhoid fever would be fatal. 298 00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:41,200 Speaker 1: People would get to the point where they're just delirious 299 00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:42,600 Speaker 1: and then they would die. 300 00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:44,280 Speaker 2: In New York and. 301 00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:47,480 Speaker 1: What nineteen oh six, there were six hundred and thirty 302 00:16:47,560 --> 00:16:51,320 Speaker 1: nine reported deaths of typhoid That's. 303 00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:52,120 Speaker 2: What was reported. 304 00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:56,120 Speaker 1: You know, given you know the area and reporting methods 305 00:16:56,160 --> 00:16:59,520 Speaker 1: of the time, chances are there's a higher. 306 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:01,000 Speaker 2: Number than that, but that's what we have. 307 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:05,320 Speaker 1: Even though there were outbreaks at the time, none had 308 00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:09,840 Speaker 1: ever been traced back to like one single person. It 309 00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:12,000 Speaker 1: was never this one person caused this outbreak. It was 310 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:15,000 Speaker 1: always like a number of factors and reasons came into it, 311 00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:18,400 Speaker 1: so like one person was never to blame, was never 312 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:25,280 Speaker 1: the root cause, especially someone who had zero symptoms themselves. 313 00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:28,600 Speaker 1: And that brings us back to Mary Mallan. So in 314 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:33,000 Speaker 1: nineteen hundred, she gets a job in Mamma Uneck, New York. 315 00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:36,880 Speaker 1: I hope he pronounce that correctly practiced, like within two 316 00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:40,680 Speaker 1: weeks of her being there, the residents develop typhoid fever. 317 00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:43,480 Speaker 1: In nineteen oh one, she gets a job in Manhattan 318 00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:47,800 Speaker 1: and when she's employed there, some members of the family 319 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:54,439 Speaker 1: they have fevers in diarrhea, and the laundress she dies. 320 00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:59,320 Speaker 1: So after this, Mary she goes and she gets employed 321 00:17:59,359 --> 00:18:02,359 Speaker 1: by this law in his family and seven out of 322 00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:07,320 Speaker 1: the a people in this household fall grievously ill. After that, 323 00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:10,879 Speaker 1: she lands another cook job with a very rich lawyer 324 00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:16,400 Speaker 1: in mister Henry Gilsey, and within one fucking week, one week, 325 00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:19,480 Speaker 1: the lawn dress I don't know what is it with 326 00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:22,879 Speaker 1: her In lawn dresses. The laundress gets infected with typhoid, 327 00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:27,600 Speaker 1: and out of the seven servants, four of them become ill, 328 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:32,879 Speaker 1: but no members of the Gilsey's family were actually sick 329 00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:39,680 Speaker 1: because the family lived in one residence and the staff 330 00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:43,840 Speaker 1: all had their own their own way house. Gilsey hires 331 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:49,280 Speaker 1: an investigator, a doctor Wilson, who does this wee investigation, 332 00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:52,359 Speaker 1: and he comes to the conclusion that it was the 333 00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:55,520 Speaker 1: lawn dress that was making everybody sick, that she was 334 00:18:55,680 --> 00:18:58,120 Speaker 1: the root. She was the certain point that made everybody ill. 335 00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:03,119 Speaker 1: But he obviously he cannot prove it. It's just because 336 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:06,600 Speaker 1: she was the first one to exhibit symptoms, so obviously 337 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:08,720 Speaker 1: he's like, yeah, it was her, she was the starting point. 338 00:19:09,119 --> 00:19:11,840 Speaker 1: But as soon as this little sort of but basically 339 00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:15,399 Speaker 1: once the other servants start getting sick, Mary fucks off. 340 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:18,600 Speaker 2: She heads to Tuxedo Park. 341 00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:23,120 Speaker 1: Where she works for George Kessler, and within a fortnite, 342 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:27,520 Speaker 1: within two weeks, the laundress again again with. 343 00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:28,119 Speaker 2: The lawn dress. 344 00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:32,399 Speaker 1: The laundress gets infected and she ends up being taken 345 00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:36,760 Speaker 1: to Saint Joseph's Regional Medical Center. They're really fucking surprised 346 00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:40,840 Speaker 1: because this is the first time in so fucking long 347 00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:44,320 Speaker 1: that they've had a case of typhoid again because it's 348 00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:47,680 Speaker 1: more affluent. You know, this is an area in Orange County, 349 00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:52,160 Speaker 1: New York, not to be confused with Orange County in California. 350 00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:53,720 Speaker 2: But seriously, what. 351 00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:56,199 Speaker 1: Is it with her in the lawn dress? What is 352 00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:58,960 Speaker 1: she doing with the laundry maid? Why is she in 353 00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:03,080 Speaker 1: such close physical contact? Is she hand feeding her? Is 354 00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:06,080 Speaker 1: she like getting her to drink water from her hands? 355 00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:08,920 Speaker 1: Is she getting her to suck food off of her fingers? 356 00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:09,960 Speaker 2: Why? 357 00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:15,160 Speaker 1: Oh no, No, that wouldn't make sense, Like what, No, 358 00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:18,679 Speaker 1: it would be weird Statistically, it wouldn't make sense. 359 00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:21,320 Speaker 2: For all of the lawn dresses to be lesbians, Like. 360 00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:22,840 Speaker 1: I was just trying to think of, Like why would 361 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:27,200 Speaker 1: be such close physical contact? Like why would the lawn 362 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:31,360 Speaker 1: dress specifically be the first person to get sick. Why 363 00:20:31,359 --> 00:20:35,960 Speaker 1: are they consuming you know, the bacteria more than anybody else. 364 00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:41,040 Speaker 1: But moving on and nineteen oh six, in August, Mary 365 00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:46,280 Speaker 1: gets employed by Charles Henry Warren, a wealthy New York 366 00:20:46,359 --> 00:20:49,320 Speaker 1: banker who had decided to rent a house an Oyster 367 00:20:49,359 --> 00:20:52,960 Speaker 1: Bay on Long Island for the summer, as is their way, 368 00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:55,520 Speaker 1: because rich people like to get out of the city 369 00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:56,360 Speaker 1: and enjoy themselves. 370 00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:57,200 Speaker 2: Aha. 371 00:20:57,280 --> 00:21:01,200 Speaker 1: So Mary comes along and from all twenty seventh to 372 00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:05,320 Speaker 1: September third, six of the eleven people in the family 373 00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:09,280 Speaker 1: contract typhoid fever. And this was kind of a big deal. 374 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:11,720 Speaker 1: Like there were three doctors in the area at the time, 375 00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:14,719 Speaker 1: and they were like, this is really fucking weird. I mean, 376 00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:17,040 Speaker 1: the direct quote is that they said it was unusual. 377 00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:20,400 Speaker 1: I'm paraphrasing, it's not the point. It was very strange 378 00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:22,800 Speaker 1: for typhoid to be an Oyster Bay because it was 379 00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:25,560 Speaker 1: very much it was the poor people's disease. It happened 380 00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:27,600 Speaker 1: in the slums of New York, it didn't. 381 00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:30,000 Speaker 2: Happen in the affluent Oyster Bay area. 382 00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:33,520 Speaker 1: No. So the landlord at this point, he's shitting a 383 00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:37,400 Speaker 1: fucking brick because he knows damn fine well that he's 384 00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:38,960 Speaker 1: not going to be able to rent out his house 385 00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:42,639 Speaker 1: if it's got a reputation for having typhoid. So he 386 00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:46,320 Speaker 1: hires like all these experts, you know, independent of each other, 387 00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:48,760 Speaker 1: just to make sure he's not getting fucked over. 388 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:52,119 Speaker 2: And they test everything. 389 00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:59,960 Speaker 3: So they are chicken water from pipes, taps, fosets, the toilet, 390 00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:05,080 Speaker 3: and quote unquote the cesspool, and every single one of. 391 00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:09,080 Speaker 1: These sources, these water sources, they test negative for typhoid 392 00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:13,879 Speaker 1: and let nineteen oh six, Mary gets employed by Walter 393 00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:15,400 Speaker 1: Bonne in Park Avenue. 394 00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:17,480 Speaker 2: By early nineteen oh seven. 395 00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:21,320 Speaker 1: Their maid gets sick, followed by two servants who have 396 00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:25,840 Speaker 1: to then get hospitalized, and then the daughter of the 397 00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:31,199 Speaker 1: household she contracts typhoid fever and she dies. And it 398 00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:33,840 Speaker 1: was here in the kitchen of this Park Avenue penthouse 399 00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:38,080 Speaker 1: that Mary Mallin was confronted by one George Sober, an 400 00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:41,920 Speaker 1: investigator who had been hired by the Long Island landlord. 401 00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:45,919 Speaker 1: So George was actually a civil engineer by trade, but 402 00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:49,960 Speaker 1: like over time, he ended up becoming this like sanitation expert, 403 00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:52,720 Speaker 1: and he was brought in by the New York State 404 00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:58,080 Speaker 1: itself to investigate disease outbreaks like this was very much 405 00:22:58,119 --> 00:22:59,760 Speaker 1: his jam and. 406 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:01,000 Speaker 2: His boy now. 407 00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:05,800 Speaker 1: Starting in the Oyster Bay property and working backwards, George 408 00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:10,040 Speaker 1: had been looking into these typhoid outbreaks in these prominent 409 00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:12,080 Speaker 1: prosperous families. 410 00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:13,280 Speaker 2: Because they were really weird. 411 00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:18,080 Speaker 1: Because normally these sort of outbreaks would happen in crowded, 412 00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:24,760 Speaker 1: unsanitary places and the homes of the wealthy rarely are 413 00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:28,040 Speaker 1: those you know. And so while he's looking into these cases, 414 00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:33,520 Speaker 1: he discovers a common denominator, an Irish cook with blonde hair, 415 00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:37,440 Speaker 1: blue eyes, and a determined jaw, was at each one 416 00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:41,600 Speaker 1: of the outbreaks when they occurred. Unfortunately, getting a hold 417 00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:44,359 Speaker 1: of her was pretty difficult because she always buggered off, 418 00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:47,960 Speaker 1: you know, after the outbreak, and she never left a 419 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:51,800 Speaker 1: forwarding address. Luckily for George, though, Mary was still working 420 00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:55,440 Speaker 1: for the Bones while he was investigating. So he walks 421 00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:59,920 Speaker 1: into that Park Avenue apartment and he confronts her. He's 422 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:04,280 Speaker 1: says that he was and I quote, as diplomatic as possible, 423 00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:07,280 Speaker 1: but he did just walk into a woman's work and 424 00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:11,440 Speaker 1: accused her of spreading a deadly disease and then asked 425 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:15,920 Speaker 1: her for samples of urine and fecal matter, at which 426 00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:19,040 Speaker 1: point she gets really fucking mad and threatens him with 427 00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:22,080 Speaker 1: a carving fork. Now, in some places I've seen this 428 00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:24,399 Speaker 1: reporter as like a knife, but it was a fork. 429 00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:28,120 Speaker 2: His own report says fork. She tried to fork him. 430 00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:33,320 Speaker 1: Now, if some strange man that I didn't know sauntered 431 00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:37,560 Speaker 1: into my place of employment accused me of making a 432 00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:42,200 Speaker 1: fuck ton of people ill and then wanted toilet samples 433 00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:46,120 Speaker 1: from me, especially in the early nineteen hundreds. 434 00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:48,240 Speaker 2: I do would be get. 435 00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:51,600 Speaker 1: The fuck away from me, your quepywe bastard, No, I 436 00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:55,920 Speaker 1: told him with a fork. So Georgie boy here, He's like, okay, 437 00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:59,399 Speaker 1: this is obviously the wrong approach. And he then goes 438 00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:05,200 Speaker 1: and compiles this fucking list of everywhere she worked, who 439 00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:09,280 Speaker 1: got sick, so on and so forth. He then finds 440 00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:12,960 Speaker 1: her boyfriend and goes over to his place with a 441 00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:16,400 Speaker 1: doctor to try and convince Mary to you know, give 442 00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:21,320 Speaker 1: them like stolen your samples, and Mary again is like no, 443 00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:25,960 Speaker 1: at which point George is like, fine, okay, this doesn't 444 00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:28,840 Speaker 1: getting me anywhere, and he contacts the New York City 445 00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:33,199 Speaker 1: Health Department and he shows the investigators, you know, all 446 00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:35,840 Speaker 1: of his info and they're like, okay, you definitely have 447 00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:40,040 Speaker 1: a case here. So they get her arrested as a 448 00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:44,360 Speaker 1: public health threat. So she gets forced into an ambulance 449 00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:48,919 Speaker 1: by a doctor and five policemen, and in order to 450 00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:55,600 Speaker 1: restrain Mary, doctor Josephine Baker had to physically sit on her. 451 00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:58,800 Speaker 1: Mary ends up getting taken to the Willard Parker Hospital, 452 00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:02,240 Speaker 1: where she was restrained through you know, appropriate methods of 453 00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:04,720 Speaker 1: not having a doctor sit on her, and she is 454 00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:08,040 Speaker 1: forced to, you know, give the urine and still samples 455 00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:11,320 Speaker 1: and over the course of four days, you know, if 456 00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:13,359 Speaker 1: she wanted to go to the toilet, she could not 457 00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:14,440 Speaker 1: go unaccompanied. 458 00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:16,840 Speaker 2: There had to be someone with her. And so they, 459 00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:19,239 Speaker 2: you know, they study the samples. 460 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:25,679 Speaker 1: And they discover that she was excreting massive, massive amounts 461 00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:29,399 Speaker 1: of typhoid bacteria, which then brought them to the conclusion 462 00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:32,720 Speaker 1: that the main source of infection in her body was 463 00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:36,720 Speaker 1: her gold ladder. And by questioning Mary, they discover a 464 00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:39,360 Speaker 1: couple of things that she doesn't really wash her hands. 465 00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:40,959 Speaker 2: She rarely washed her hands. 466 00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:45,320 Speaker 1: But at the time this wasn't really unusual because lots 467 00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:48,840 Speaker 1: of people hadn't quite grasped the concept of germ. 468 00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:51,720 Speaker 2: Theory, which we know now was very much wash your. 469 00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:55,639 Speaker 1: Hands, whip front to back, et cetera, et cetera. And 470 00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:58,760 Speaker 1: on top of this, they believe that her main way 471 00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:03,320 Speaker 1: of spreading you know, typhoid was through peach ice cream, 472 00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:07,720 Speaker 1: because she would make ice cream and chop peaches into 473 00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:11,000 Speaker 1: it and freeze it. That was like her thing. It 474 00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:14,320 Speaker 1: was her signature dish, some might say. And while other 475 00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:18,520 Speaker 1: foods that were prepared, were cooked thoroughly and would sort 476 00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:22,719 Speaker 1: of get rid of the salmonari typhee bacteria. Ice Cream 477 00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:28,199 Speaker 1: obviously was not, and as such was the perfect spreader 478 00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:29,600 Speaker 1: for the bacteria. 479 00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:31,760 Speaker 2: And that's always. 480 00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:33,480 Speaker 1: Kind of funny to me because ice cream is very 481 00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:39,040 Speaker 1: much a privileged food. So unless she was like sneaking 482 00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:42,040 Speaker 1: some to the servants, like would servants. 483 00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:42,600 Speaker 2: Be allowed ice cream? 484 00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:44,760 Speaker 1: This is where the lawn dressed thing has me going 485 00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:47,360 Speaker 1: it I'm just saying it's a weird one. 486 00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:48,520 Speaker 3: Also. 487 00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:53,879 Speaker 1: In addition, furthermore, because Mary had quite adamantly stated that 488 00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:58,280 Speaker 1: she had never contracted typhoid in her life, the doctors 489 00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:05,000 Speaker 1: theorized that Mary's mother contracted typhoid while she was pregnant 490 00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:08,080 Speaker 1: with her, thus making her an asymptomatic carrier. 491 00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:10,720 Speaker 2: Granted, we don't know that for sure, but I mean 492 00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:12,439 Speaker 2: it makes sense. I'm fairly certain. 493 00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:17,280 Speaker 1: In March nineteen oh seven, Mary is shipped off to 494 00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:21,760 Speaker 1: North Brother Island, where she's quarantined and she has to 495 00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:26,000 Speaker 1: give stool in urine samples three times a week for 496 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:30,600 Speaker 1: two whole years, and over the course of those two years, 497 00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:33,000 Speaker 1: one hundred and twenty out of the one hundred and 498 00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:37,159 Speaker 1: sixty three still sample she gave tested positive and she 499 00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:40,600 Speaker 1: gets put on like a ton of medications. 500 00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:44,240 Speaker 2: They put her on eurotropin. 501 00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:48,760 Speaker 1: Hexam with a linimon, laxatives, rose YaST. I mean, at 502 00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:50,520 Speaker 1: this point, I'm just throwing spaghetti at the wall and 503 00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:54,160 Speaker 1: open it sticks like and Mary complains because she feels like. 504 00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:55,880 Speaker 2: She's being used as a guinea pig. 505 00:28:56,280 --> 00:29:00,800 Speaker 1: They're just chucking a bunch of medicines adder and many 506 00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:03,800 Speaker 1: of which are just making her feel really fucking ill. 507 00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:07,280 Speaker 1: I mean, the yearbrootroping they put her on. It almost 508 00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:10,320 Speaker 1: destroys her kidneys, and at one point they want to 509 00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:15,400 Speaker 1: surgically remove her gallbladder. But Mary nobody thought to actually 510 00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:18,760 Speaker 1: explain to her, you know, what a carrier was, how 511 00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:21,480 Speaker 1: she could be asymptomatic and still you know, spread the disease. 512 00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:22,840 Speaker 2: Instead of you. 513 00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:26,800 Speaker 1: Know, trying to explain that in any reasonable way to 514 00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:32,160 Speaker 1: the women, they just force her into quarantine and experiment 515 00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:36,520 Speaker 1: on her. You know, there were interns and tuberculosis doctors 516 00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:39,640 Speaker 1: and all of those people that would just come up 517 00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:40,200 Speaker 1: and just. 518 00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:42,960 Speaker 2: Poke her, fraud her, asked her questions. 519 00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:44,040 Speaker 1: That she had already been asked, and it was all 520 00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:46,959 Speaker 1: it was a lot for her to deal with, you know. 521 00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:51,720 Speaker 1: Then she discovers that she has been nicknamed typhoid Mary, 522 00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:55,240 Speaker 1: which really pisses her off. So when George Sober shows 523 00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:56,720 Speaker 1: up and is like, I'm going to write a book 524 00:29:56,720 --> 00:30:00,080 Speaker 1: about this, and I'll give you I'll give you royalty 525 00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:03,480 Speaker 1: so you could have money, but Mary tells him absolutely 526 00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:08,200 Speaker 1: fucking not, because you know, she's mad because he, to her, 527 00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:11,440 Speaker 1: in her eyes, he is the very reason she's in there, 528 00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:15,400 Speaker 1: that she's locked away, right, And he ends up writing 529 00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:17,040 Speaker 1: his book anyway, and she gets nothing. 530 00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:20,440 Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, see. 531 00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:23,400 Speaker 1: Not every medical professional though, was super into the fact 532 00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:26,960 Speaker 1: that she was in a forced quarantine. They felt like 533 00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:30,080 Speaker 1: it was like an overly strict punishment, that it was just, 534 00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:34,240 Speaker 1: you know, a bit much. Because Mary ends up having 535 00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:38,400 Speaker 1: a breakdown, which you know, we should not be surprised 536 00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:46,880 Speaker 1: at because it was very much a traumatic experience for her. 537 00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:51,000 Speaker 1: So somehow, with the help of a friend whom we 538 00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:53,480 Speaker 1: do not know the name of, Mary manages to get 539 00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:56,520 Speaker 1: steel samples like smuggled out and sent out to this 540 00:30:56,600 --> 00:31:01,360 Speaker 1: independent New York laboratory, which come up as negative for typhoid. 541 00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:05,880 Speaker 1: She then tries to sue the New York Health Department, 542 00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:09,720 Speaker 1: but the Supreme Court just shuts it down. And there 543 00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:14,360 Speaker 1: is a theory that the newspaper magnet William Randolph hurst 544 00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:17,600 Speaker 1: that not only did he pay for you know, the test, 545 00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:20,600 Speaker 1: that he got them out, but also that he covered 546 00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:22,320 Speaker 1: the cost of her legal bills. 547 00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:25,000 Speaker 2: By the time nineteen ten comes along. 548 00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:30,400 Speaker 1: There's this new health commissioner who believes that isolation is 549 00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:33,720 Speaker 1: not appropriate for disease carriers. That we really shouldn't be, 550 00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:35,680 Speaker 1: you know, locking them up and hiding them away anymore. 551 00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:36,520 Speaker 2: It's not cool. 552 00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:41,560 Speaker 1: So he basically makes Mary Mallin sign an after David 553 00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:45,400 Speaker 1: saying that she would no longer work as a cook, 554 00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:49,880 Speaker 1: she would change a profession and she would employ sanitary 555 00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:53,840 Speaker 1: health and safety practices that would basically reduce the risk 556 00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:57,640 Speaker 1: and avoid her spreading typhoid. Like that's that the delio, 557 00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:02,520 Speaker 1: you know, And she agrees signs whatever, and then she 558 00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:07,440 Speaker 1: is released from quarantine and returns to the mainland. When 559 00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:10,400 Speaker 1: Mary gets out, she manages to get a job as 560 00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:13,520 Speaker 1: a lawn dress she's following the rules. It doesn't pay 561 00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:16,240 Speaker 1: as well as being a cook does, because she's earning 562 00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:18,840 Speaker 1: twenty dollars a month instead of fifty dollars a month, 563 00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:20,920 Speaker 1: and at some point. 564 00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:22,600 Speaker 2: During this she manages to. 565 00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:26,040 Speaker 1: Hurt her arm in some way, like there's a wound 566 00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:29,720 Speaker 1: and it becomes infected, and because of that, she can't 567 00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:32,440 Speaker 1: do this job for like six months. So she is 568 00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:37,480 Speaker 1: unemployed for at least six months and thinks, oh, fuck 569 00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:40,560 Speaker 1: this for a game of soldiers and starts cooking again. 570 00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:45,320 Speaker 1: But obviously the name Mary Mallin, that's that's a big 571 00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:49,960 Speaker 1: red flag, especially to all of these prosperous New York 572 00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:54,320 Speaker 1: families who are very much, you know, being super careful. 573 00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:58,560 Speaker 1: Now because she's famous or infamous, I should say, because 574 00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:02,920 Speaker 1: no one wants the info miss disease written typhoid Mary 575 00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:03,920 Speaker 1: cooking for them. 576 00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:06,280 Speaker 2: So instead of working as a cook for. 577 00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:09,640 Speaker 1: Families, she ends up working in sort of higher production kitchens. 578 00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:11,760 Speaker 2: So she ends up working. 579 00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:21,040 Speaker 1: In restaurants, hotels, hospitals, spa centers, and basically everywhere she 580 00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:26,720 Speaker 1: works there are typhoid outbreaks. And she keeps changing jobs, 581 00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:29,800 Speaker 1: like she keeps hobbing, but she's she's clever enough to 582 00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:33,200 Speaker 1: keep job hobbing, and she uses fakes our names like 583 00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:39,040 Speaker 1: Brown or bresh Off. And at this point George Soper 584 00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:43,880 Speaker 1: is looking for her again because he knows he knows 585 00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:47,440 Speaker 1: it's her. So in nineteen fifteen, she's working at the 586 00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:52,040 Speaker 1: Sloane Hospital for Women, which is a maternity hospital in Manhattan, 587 00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:55,200 Speaker 1: and she's there for three months and while she's there 588 00:33:56,040 --> 00:34:03,520 Speaker 1: she contaminates at least twenty five people. This includes you know, patients, doctors, 589 00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:06,240 Speaker 1: nurses and like other staff and stuff, and. 590 00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:07,480 Speaker 2: Two people die. 591 00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:11,279 Speaker 1: And while she's there, she's working under you know, the 592 00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:15,600 Speaker 1: non diplome, the fake name Mary Brown. And because there's 593 00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:19,800 Speaker 1: a typhoid outbreak at his hospital, the head obstetrician calls 594 00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:23,359 Speaker 1: up George Sobert and is like, please help me, come 595 00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:28,680 Speaker 1: figure this out. So George comes down, He investigates, he asks. 596 00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:31,120 Speaker 1: So George comes down, he has we look around the 597 00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:34,399 Speaker 1: chats with staff and whatnot, and as it turns out, 598 00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:39,560 Speaker 1: a woman matching the description of Mary Mallin was working 599 00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:42,960 Speaker 1: in the hospital, but of course had gone fuck this 600 00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:46,239 Speaker 1: for a game of soldiers and ballocks off, and so 601 00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:51,160 Speaker 1: she was gone and George had just missed her. But 602 00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:53,279 Speaker 1: it didn't take too long to find her because the 603 00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:57,680 Speaker 1: police marriage to like apprehend her while she was bringing 604 00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:00,759 Speaker 1: food to a friend on Long Island. So so on 605 00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:05,160 Speaker 1: the twenty seventh of March, nineteen fifteen, Mary gets sent 606 00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:10,200 Speaker 1: back to quarantine on North Brother Island because she went 607 00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:13,160 Speaker 1: against the affidavit and was working as a cook again 608 00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:14,120 Speaker 1: even though. 609 00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:16,760 Speaker 2: She promised she wouldn't. That was that was the deal. 610 00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:18,279 Speaker 2: She went against it. 611 00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:22,680 Speaker 1: However, whether Mary is a victim or a villain depends 612 00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:26,000 Speaker 1: on whether she started cooking again because she really couldn't 613 00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:28,920 Speaker 1: do any other job because she had no other options, 614 00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:32,520 Speaker 1: Like that was her only way to survive, because she was. 615 00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:35,720 Speaker 2: On the breadline, she was in poverty. Otherwise, like there's 616 00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:36,880 Speaker 2: no other option. 617 00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:40,840 Speaker 1: Are she always been like fuck this, fuck that, fuck you, 618 00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:43,759 Speaker 1: fuck off and was always going to go cook anyway. Like, 619 00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:46,480 Speaker 1: we don't really know too much about Mary during her 620 00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:48,080 Speaker 1: second quarantine. 621 00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:50,839 Speaker 2: Basically there for the rest of her life. That's twenty 622 00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:51,480 Speaker 2: three years. 623 00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:54,839 Speaker 1: So for the next twenty three years she has this 624 00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:58,360 Speaker 1: she's given a courage, so she's given this private cottage 625 00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:03,320 Speaker 1: on North Brother Island, and from nineteen eighteen she's allowed 626 00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:06,480 Speaker 1: to take day trips to the mainland, you know, like 627 00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:08,080 Speaker 1: she kids to go away for the day, she gets 628 00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:09,200 Speaker 1: away holiday, so. 629 00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:11,360 Speaker 2: She's not just stuck on the island. 630 00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:14,040 Speaker 1: I'm not really sure it counts as quarantine if you're 631 00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:19,000 Speaker 1: allowed to leave. In nineteen twenty five, doctor Alexandra Plavska, 632 00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:22,560 Speaker 1: she has an internship on North Brother Island and she 633 00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:25,920 Speaker 1: has this lab in the chapel cool. So yeah, on 634 00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:28,719 Speaker 1: the second floor of this chapel there's a lab. There's 635 00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:34,120 Speaker 1: a laboratory, and doctor Plavska she offers Mary a job 636 00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:36,560 Speaker 1: as like a lab tech. So she ends up like 637 00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:40,880 Speaker 1: washing bottles, taking notes, doing recordings. 638 00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:43,399 Speaker 2: You know, it just bits and pieces. Gives her something 639 00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:43,680 Speaker 2: to do. 640 00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:46,960 Speaker 1: I suppose instead of what other lack of activities that 641 00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:50,640 Speaker 1: happens to be on Quarantine Island. On the twenty fifth 642 00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:54,520 Speaker 1: of December nineteen thirty two, Christmas morning, this dude is 643 00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:58,439 Speaker 1: delivering something to Mary and he finds her on the 644 00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:01,480 Speaker 1: floor of her cottage. She's had a stroke. She has 645 00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:04,360 Speaker 1: taken to the Riverside hospital, where she is confined to 646 00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:05,800 Speaker 1: for the rest of her life. 647 00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:07,440 Speaker 2: You see. 648 00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:11,200 Speaker 1: The stroke caused half her body to be paralyzed and 649 00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:15,520 Speaker 1: she never fully recovered from it. So on the eleventh 650 00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:19,520 Speaker 1: of November nineteen thirty eight, it's sixty nine years old. 651 00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:24,279 Speaker 1: Mary Mallin passes away from pneumonia. A grand total of 652 00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:28,759 Speaker 1: nine people attend her funeral, her body is cremated and 653 00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:32,840 Speaker 1: her ashes are buried in Saint Raymond's cemetery in the Bronx. Right. Okay, 654 00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:36,879 Speaker 1: so there are two conflicting reports about an autopsy. So 655 00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:39,600 Speaker 1: there are some that say, you know, there was an 656 00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:45,080 Speaker 1: autopsy and they found evidence of live typhoid bacteria in 657 00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:50,120 Speaker 1: the gallstones in the gallbladder. There's another claim saying that 658 00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:52,520 Speaker 1: you know, there was never an autopsy. This was all 659 00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:55,960 Speaker 1: made up as a justification for keeping her locked up 660 00:37:56,000 --> 00:38:00,279 Speaker 1: and quarantined for like twenty five years, you know, and 661 00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:05,319 Speaker 1: thus ends the story of Mary mallin typhoid Mary. So 662 00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:08,480 Speaker 1: what did we learn today? We learned that you should 663 00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:14,640 Speaker 1: always wash your fucking hands, no excuses. Hygiene is very important. 664 00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:16,719 Speaker 2: That's it. That's the lesson for the day. 665 00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:21,160 Speaker 1: Wash your hands, and if you're sick, stay home, don't 666 00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:24,399 Speaker 1: infect people. So I was thinking, I was actually thinking 667 00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:26,680 Speaker 1: about this a wee bit, and it's about the fact 668 00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:32,000 Speaker 1: that she kept leaving these like positions. And Mary always 669 00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:35,359 Speaker 1: stated that, you know, she never she wasn't sick, she 670 00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:36,719 Speaker 1: never had any symptoms. 671 00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:37,520 Speaker 2: You know. 672 00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:40,760 Speaker 1: It's so she didn't believe she was a carrier and stuff. 673 00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:45,359 Speaker 1: So either she didn't believe that, and she was, you know, 674 00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:48,680 Speaker 1: jumping from pillar to post and leaving jobs and making 675 00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:52,120 Speaker 1: people sick regardless, and just leaving before she got caught 676 00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:57,200 Speaker 1: or she was working places and so the other servants 677 00:38:57,239 --> 00:39:00,520 Speaker 1: get sick and went, fuck this, I'm not getting and sick, 678 00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:04,799 Speaker 1: and basically left before she thought she was going to 679 00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:07,520 Speaker 1: catch it. And if she'd done this a bunch of times, 680 00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:11,040 Speaker 1: you know, this was her method of survival. But anyway, 681 00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:14,320 Speaker 1: if you like, feel free to rate and review five stars. 682 00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:18,120 Speaker 1: If you want to support me in other ways, there 683 00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:20,440 Speaker 1: is a GoFundMe for a new laptop so I can 684 00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:24,319 Speaker 1: get this audio better. There's also a Patreon which I 685 00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:26,799 Speaker 1: need to do some more stuff for, but again that's 686 00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:29,960 Speaker 1: a process. And of course the tip jar commonly known 687 00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:32,520 Speaker 1: as papal if you want to do anything there. All 688 00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:35,480 Speaker 1: the links are in the description down below, And if 689 00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:37,319 Speaker 1: you want to support me, I am on all of 690 00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:39,399 Speaker 1: the social media's, or maybe not all of them, a. 691 00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:39,839 Speaker 2: Few of them. 692 00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:45,160 Speaker 1: A good view on TikTok, Facebook and Instagram it is 693 00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:48,080 Speaker 1: hooded what now pod and on Twitter it is hooded 694 00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:52,040 Speaker 1: what now pd because there were not enough characters. There's 695 00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:54,680 Speaker 1: also a website which I'm working on. It's it's live, 696 00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:57,880 Speaker 1: but it's there and that is and that is hoodied 697 00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:00,840 Speaker 1: whatnowpod dot com And of course. 698 00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:02,080 Speaker 2: It is recommendation time. 699 00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:06,080 Speaker 1: So for reading, I am going to recommend my friend 700 00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:09,160 Speaker 1: Mel's book Glasshouses. 701 00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:12,000 Speaker 2: By Melanie Murphy out May fifth. Go get yourself a 702 00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:16,680 Speaker 2: copy now, abs fucking litly and she is an absolute delight, 703 00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:17,359 Speaker 2: by the way. 704 00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:20,800 Speaker 1: For watching, I'm going to tell you to go watch 705 00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:22,600 Speaker 1: The Gilded Age. 706 00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:25,080 Speaker 2: It is a feast for the eyes. 707 00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:30,759 Speaker 1: I mean it's good too, but like esthetically, it's very engaging. 708 00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:35,239 Speaker 2: And for listening, I am going to recommend. 709 00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:40,359 Speaker 1: The Queen's podcast. Go check out Kerrie and Nathan. They 710 00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:44,200 Speaker 1: are awesome. They also do history stuff and they swear 711 00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:47,279 Speaker 1: probably the same, if not more than me. Because there's 712 00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:49,480 Speaker 1: two of them, there's you'll be more swearers per person, 713 00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:54,000 Speaker 1: right Anyhow, with that, I am going to bid you 714 00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:58,400 Speaker 1: with you and I will chat to you next time. 715 00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:02,000 Speaker 2: Adios or revoir of where is It? My friends, a 716 00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:02,600 Speaker 2: bye bye