1
00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:08,920
Speaker 1: Wow. I never thought there would be an actual eyewitness

2
00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:12,080
Speaker 1: report of what happened, and we have absolutely no way

3
00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:14,840
Speaker 1: of knowing whether that's true at all. I'm showing my

4
00:00:14,920 --> 00:00:21,079
Speaker 1: dad Seth the police report from Billy's shooting. Is he

5
00:00:21,160 --> 00:00:24,480
Speaker 1: saying that Billy came into the bathroom with a pistol drawn?

6
00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:30,920
Speaker 1: That makes no sense. The subject came into the bathroom

7
00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:35,280
Speaker 1: and observed the PO writing on the paper. At that point,

8
00:00:35,720 --> 00:00:39,560
Speaker 1: the subject drew a caliber automatic and stated to the PO,

9
00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:43,760
Speaker 1: give me the fucking paper. Give me the paper, and

10
00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:46,360
Speaker 1: then the PO took out money to make the deal

11
00:00:46,720 --> 00:00:48,600
Speaker 1: while the purpose was holding the gun on him and

12
00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:51,760
Speaker 1: to unloaded. While you're holding that gun on you, Let's

13
00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:56,960
Speaker 1: do this deal. That's what happened. He's saying, Okay, you see,

14
00:00:56,960 --> 00:01:00,520
Speaker 1: no those facts? Is that the truth? Am I looking

15
00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:04,160
Speaker 1: at the truth? Is that? What this is? When people

16
00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:08,280
Speaker 1: put this like money, like decoration around it and stamp

17
00:01:08,319 --> 00:01:14,040
Speaker 1: it from the city, this is truth from the perspective

18
00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:19,319
Speaker 1: of the perpetrators of a homicide. I mean, you know,

19
00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:24,000
Speaker 1: the police do have a reputation. New York was a

20
00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:27,960
Speaker 1: very dangerous city. It was a very poor city, and

21
00:01:28,120 --> 00:01:30,520
Speaker 1: in terms of the way the city ran. It was broken.

22
00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:33,400
Speaker 1: You know. The cops were dirty, and they were violent

23
00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:40,760
Speaker 1: and they were corrupt. When you're doing a documentary like

24
00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:45,039
Speaker 1: this in which there are culprits and victims, and the

25
00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:47,960
Speaker 1: tendency to think that there is an absolute truth is

26
00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:52,920
Speaker 1: perhaps false, you know, because there are two people in

27
00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:55,360
Speaker 1: a room to kill somebody. Both of them have a

28
00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:58,240
Speaker 1: perspective on what happened, and one of their perspectives was

29
00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:01,160
Speaker 1: shut off. And we'll never going to hear that perspective.

30
00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:06,000
Speaker 1: We're never gonna get Billy's idea of what happened. Ever.

31
00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:11,840
Speaker 1: For Rebecca, I think this will be just a thousand

32
00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:20,720
Speaker 1: years of nightmares. So protect her from this. My dad's

33
00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:23,200
Speaker 1: worried about how my mom might react to seeing the

34
00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:26,800
Speaker 1: police report. I feel defensive of her. I feel protective

35
00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:30,040
Speaker 1: of her. If somebody you love dies of cancer, or

36
00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:34,760
Speaker 1: somebody you love falls off of peer and drowns, that's

37
00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:38,520
Speaker 1: one thing. But if somebody who you thought was your

38
00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:43,800
Speaker 1: life partner, your protector, you're gladiator, You're like soul mate

39
00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:49,639
Speaker 1: is viciously murdered and then their body thrown into an

40
00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:56,040
Speaker 1: unmarked grave, and you're denied even the right to mourn

41
00:02:57,520 --> 00:03:01,160
Speaker 1: through the ritual of burial. If you're ripped away from

42
00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:04,919
Speaker 1: that person in the way that Rebecca was torn away

43
00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:08,840
Speaker 1: from her life with Billy, your grief is of a

44
00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:15,440
Speaker 1: different nature. It's not distinguishable from anger. It's raging grief.

45
00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:24,560
Speaker 1: It's like slaughter. Everybody grief today on the show, My

46
00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:28,320
Speaker 1: Mother's grief in the years following Billy's death leads her

47
00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:32,120
Speaker 1: to an unlikely source of comfort and a big surprise

48
00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:42,040
Speaker 1: me from crime Town. I'm io till it right, and

49
00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:56,840
Speaker 1: this is the ballad of Billy balls By was you know,

50
00:03:57,080 --> 00:04:01,880
Speaker 1: into the socks, which, like all pure speed, really good

51
00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:08,000
Speaker 1: pure speed, goild. Rebecca always seemed very vibrant and happy,

52
00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:11,560
Speaker 1: and he seemed happy. They were great together. They were

53
00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:17,800
Speaker 1: great together. I remember Rebecca called me, you know, she

54
00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:21,839
Speaker 1: called me right after it happened, had Billy been shot.

55
00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:32,360
Speaker 1: I remember just the raw feeling of the the fucking

56
00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:38,640
Speaker 1: pain of grief, and I would like to not remember

57
00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:41,680
Speaker 1: that feeling. Quiz the weakening this stopped It was you

58
00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:57,320
Speaker 1: being worn. Chapter nine, Ophelia, do you remember the first

59
00:04:57,320 --> 00:05:01,039
Speaker 1: time you ever saw my mother? Yes, I do do,

60
00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:07,760
Speaker 1: tell um. I went up town to a party. It

61
00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:11,760
Speaker 1: was my dad was in his late twenties and working

62
00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:15,760
Speaker 1: as an experimental theater director. One summer night, he headed

63
00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:21,279
Speaker 1: to a party uptown. It was one of those nice

64
00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:24,200
Speaker 1: Upper West Side apartments that are owned by a shrink

65
00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:28,039
Speaker 1: or something. And she was lying on the floor and

66
00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:34,800
Speaker 1: naked in a triangle of sunlight in a party where

67
00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:37,560
Speaker 1: people were standing around with beers and drinks, and there

68
00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:41,719
Speaker 1: she was, you know, this like leggy blonde. It was

69
00:05:41,760 --> 00:05:45,400
Speaker 1: so it was so outrageous what she was doing because

70
00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:48,479
Speaker 1: she wasn't really talking to anybody at the party. She

71
00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:54,479
Speaker 1: was just sunbathing on the floor with no clothes on

72
00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:58,520
Speaker 1: in the party. And I definitely made a mental note

73
00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:06,719
Speaker 1: to get to know uh that person perhaps at another opportunity.

74
00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:12,719
Speaker 1: That opportunity came a few weeks later when my dad

75
00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:15,120
Speaker 1: was out at a nightclub. I had a flask in

76
00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:17,440
Speaker 1: my jacket and I took a drink and I got

77
00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:20,760
Speaker 1: this huge hand black on my color and it was

78
00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:23,839
Speaker 1: the bouncer, and he said get out of the club,

79
00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:26,479
Speaker 1: and he, you know, dragged me by my neck. And

80
00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:29,159
Speaker 1: on the other arm, he was dragging this girl and

81
00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:35,599
Speaker 1: it was Rebecca. He was throwing her out and throwing

82
00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:37,320
Speaker 1: me out at the same time. And so it was

83
00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:40,039
Speaker 1: like it was like a it was like a romantic comedy,

84
00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:42,640
Speaker 1: you know, slammed the door shut and we were both

85
00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:48,640
Speaker 1: landed on the sidewalk, and it was like, oh, what

86
00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:51,000
Speaker 1: did you do? You know? I was like I was

87
00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:54,159
Speaker 1: just trying to drink out of my flask and what

88
00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:57,359
Speaker 1: did you do? Some ship? You know and whatever, and

89
00:06:57,400 --> 00:07:01,000
Speaker 1: then we just went walking together, and um, we kind of.

90
00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:06,080
Speaker 1: I was very attracted to her, you know, her combination

91
00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:08,960
Speaker 1: of extraordinary femininity like a show girl. She was like

92
00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:14,040
Speaker 1: a show girl, but it was more like a show

93
00:07:14,160 --> 00:07:16,960
Speaker 1: girl that could throw a spear, you know, and bring

94
00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:20,000
Speaker 1: down a horse at a hundred meters type of show girl.

95
00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:24,560
Speaker 1: And she liked me, and we had a kind of

96
00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:26,800
Speaker 1: a date after that, but it was by then it

97
00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:29,320
Speaker 1: was already five in the morning or something, so what date.

98
00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:33,640
Speaker 1: My dad quickly realized that my mom wasn't an easy

99
00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:37,520
Speaker 1: person to get to know Rebecca, Like from the very beginning,

100
00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:41,200
Speaker 1: it was extraordinarily KG about any kind of details like

101
00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:47,600
Speaker 1: exact address or exact phone number or exact anything. My

102
00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:51,239
Speaker 1: mom is still KG about personal details. Where is this,

103
00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:54,040
Speaker 1: I don't know. Actually, she didn't want to discuss my

104
00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:57,280
Speaker 1: dad at all for this project or something. I don't

105
00:07:57,320 --> 00:08:01,640
Speaker 1: know you were. Every time he came up, she changed

106
00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:05,240
Speaker 1: the subject. I was stick to the subject. For Christ's sake.

107
00:08:06,680 --> 00:08:09,560
Speaker 1: You are the subject, so you won't be hearing her

108
00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:15,760
Speaker 1: perspective on their relationship. Rebecca was like somebody walking around

109
00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:20,000
Speaker 1: with a big bundle of secrets, or who had learned

110
00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:23,720
Speaker 1: the hard way that you don't share personal information with

111
00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:27,800
Speaker 1: anyone because it will be come back and bite you

112
00:08:27,840 --> 00:08:37,720
Speaker 1: in the s as she would say, you know. The

113
00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:40,200
Speaker 1: third time I met her was on the street on

114
00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:43,480
Speaker 1: the Bowery, walking down south, and she was carrying a

115
00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:47,920
Speaker 1: whole bunch of plastic bags and looked extremely distraught. She

116
00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:50,520
Speaker 1: was her fingers were all screwed up and wrapped around

117
00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:55,640
Speaker 1: the plastic bags, and she looked absolutely desperate. Then I

118
00:08:55,720 --> 00:08:57,960
Speaker 1: said to her, what's what's the matter with you? And

119
00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:00,000
Speaker 1: she's like, I can't go home. I can't go home.

120
00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:05,840
Speaker 1: Wanta thugs and ship heads and creepy bastards, you know,

121
00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:10,200
Speaker 1: like I at the doors busted, the windows busted, the

122
00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:18,320
Speaker 1: heats busted, the I don't feel safe there. I'm like, well,

123
00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:19,920
Speaker 1: come and stay in my place. You could stay in

124
00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:22,920
Speaker 1: my kitchen and there's a room you know, if you

125
00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:27,360
Speaker 1: want to come by, And she did come by and

126
00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:35,720
Speaker 1: she didn't leave. After that, my mom moved into my

127
00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:39,920
Speaker 1: dad's railroad apartment, a narrow old place with a bathtub

128
00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:42,560
Speaker 1: in the kitchen, and that's like a perfect setup for

129
00:09:42,559 --> 00:09:45,440
Speaker 1: an exhibitionist and for a wild ass like Rebecca. It's

130
00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:47,520
Speaker 1: just like perfect. You know, she could be cooking and

131
00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:51,760
Speaker 1: having a bath. And I took the little middle bed

132
00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:55,000
Speaker 1: and a half room. Rebecca never slept, so there wasn't

133
00:09:55,840 --> 00:10:00,800
Speaker 1: necessity for a bedroom for Rebecca, which is a very

134
00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:03,520
Speaker 1: strange thing when you think about it. I never saw

135
00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:06,200
Speaker 1: her sleep in months, the first few months that I

136
00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:13,080
Speaker 1: knew her, I had never seen her sleep. My dad

137
00:10:13,160 --> 00:10:15,800
Speaker 1: was a director and my mom was a performer, so

138
00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:19,320
Speaker 1: they got closer by making things together. I was shooting

139
00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:23,040
Speaker 1: a video, kind of very low rent video of Hamlet,

140
00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:26,679
Speaker 1: and it occurred to me that Rebecca, with this wild

141
00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:30,240
Speaker 1: blonde hair and this extraordinary kind of power in her

142
00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:33,240
Speaker 1: eyes and in her face and in her hands. You know,

143
00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:37,960
Speaker 1: she radiates like physical energy and strength, could play Ophelia

144
00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:41,920
Speaker 1: in a much stronger way than the like shrinking violet

145
00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:45,720
Speaker 1: with flowers in her hair that's traditionally in Shakespeare's Hamlet.

146
00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:51,360
Speaker 1: Ophelia is Hamlet's love interest who eventually goes mad with grief.

147
00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:55,120
Speaker 1: And I thought that that had cinematically, that that could

148
00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:57,960
Speaker 1: be something very beautiful if I could capture that on camera.

149
00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:03,120
Speaker 1: By just by st charity a lack five for Shane.

150
00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:07,880
Speaker 1: Young men will do if they come to by Cock,

151
00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:12,040
Speaker 1: they aunt, blame. And then Rebecca would grab the book

152
00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:14,200
Speaker 1: and go up on the roof and start reading these

153
00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:18,280
Speaker 1: intense scenes. So what are you done? By his son?

154
00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:22,040
Speaker 1: But and thou hast not come to my bed? It

155
00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:26,719
Speaker 1: was this an incredibly dramatized, forceful way that she had

156
00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:29,480
Speaker 1: of doing it. It wasn't acting. It was like like

157
00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:33,640
Speaker 1: a volcanic impersonation. And I don't know, for me, it

158
00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:36,360
Speaker 1: was coming together into a very interesting version of Hamlet.

159
00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:43,200
Speaker 1: Come my coach, Good nights, ladies, good night, sweet ladies,

160
00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:52,480
Speaker 1: good night, good night. And that's when she told me

161
00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:58,520
Speaker 1: about Billy. That's when she started to trust me enough

162
00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:04,719
Speaker 1: to share the story. Right, My mom finally told him

163
00:12:04,760 --> 00:12:09,079
Speaker 1: what had happened. She recounted Billy's death in painful detail.

164
00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:13,480
Speaker 1: She knew who had come to visit Billy that night,

165
00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:15,800
Speaker 1: that she knew that it was a police officer and

166
00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:20,800
Speaker 1: off duty police officer and a cowboy hat. He had

167
00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:24,840
Speaker 1: so many slugs in him that that's the act of

168
00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:27,720
Speaker 1: somebody that wants to finish you off, you know, doesn't

169
00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:33,559
Speaker 1: want you speaking, doesn't want you living. I didn't realize

170
00:12:33,559 --> 00:12:35,720
Speaker 1: that that I was a very opportunistic and rather sick

171
00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:38,440
Speaker 1: of me to want her to play Ophelia because she

172
00:12:38,679 --> 00:12:41,440
Speaker 1: was made crazy by an event that took place in

173
00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:45,920
Speaker 1: her life that literally made her mad, you know, and

174
00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:49,599
Speaker 1: I mean mad in the old sense of the word insane,

175
00:12:50,520 --> 00:13:00,800
Speaker 1: with grief and anger. So it's not something you want

176
00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:03,920
Speaker 1: to hold the cameras on, you know. It's very intimate,

177
00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:12,880
Speaker 1: that grief and anger. It started to show up in

178
00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:18,880
Speaker 1: their apartment. So when I would come home sometimes and

179
00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:22,960
Speaker 1: hear the music on super allowed, like in my apartment

180
00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:33,360
Speaker 1: wherever Becca was, and I would open the door. Becca

181
00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:36,040
Speaker 1: would be with a bottle of whiskey in one hand,

182
00:13:36,679 --> 00:13:40,000
Speaker 1: yelling into the speakers, singing at the top of her

183
00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:44,840
Speaker 1: loans the songs that she and Billy really loved together,

184
00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:49,080
Speaker 1: you know, and I would go, we're stop, and she

185
00:13:50,080 --> 00:14:06,520
Speaker 1: nothing would stop her. My dad says, the grief over

186
00:14:06,559 --> 00:14:09,840
Speaker 1: Billy's murder sparked a fear in my mom that followed

187
00:14:09,880 --> 00:14:14,720
Speaker 1: them everywhere they went. So I'm like on St. Mark's Place,

188
00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:18,280
Speaker 1: somewhere around there, walking with Rebecca and there's two cops

189
00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:22,080
Speaker 1: sitting in a cup car on the corner, and Rebecca

190
00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:29,680
Speaker 1: gets all pale and kind of freaky h and I'm like,

191
00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:31,400
Speaker 1: what's the matter, what's the matter? And she's like turned around,

192
00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:34,000
Speaker 1: turned around, turning around, no face that way. I'm like, why,

193
00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:37,800
Speaker 1: what what? What? And I turned around, of course, you know,

194
00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:40,040
Speaker 1: and I see these two cops sitting in the car

195
00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:41,640
Speaker 1: and I'm like, what is this? Is those two cops

196
00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:43,520
Speaker 1: in the car, And she's like, I can't look at

197
00:14:43,560 --> 00:14:44,760
Speaker 1: that guy. I can't look at that guy. We gotta

198
00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:46,760
Speaker 1: get away from you. We're gonna walk away from you.

199
00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:51,440
Speaker 1: And then so we're walking away, I'm going in said

200
00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:56,880
Speaker 1: the guy? Is that the guy? What are you talking about?

201
00:14:56,960 --> 00:15:01,600
Speaker 1: Is that the cowboy? And she wouldn't reply, and she

202
00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:04,520
Speaker 1: wouldn't tell me, and she wouldn't go any further with

203
00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:07,600
Speaker 1: any any detail whatsoever, but that she wanted us to

204
00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:09,360
Speaker 1: get the funk out of there, and that that got

205
00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:12,760
Speaker 1: that cop that was near the window side where we

206
00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:16,880
Speaker 1: were walking by freaked her out entirely, and that she

207
00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:20,000
Speaker 1: recognized him and that and I said to her, I

208
00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:21,880
Speaker 1: was walking up the street like nervously going to something

209
00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:23,400
Speaker 1: to do with Billy's is the Billy thing? What's going

210
00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:25,840
Speaker 1: to come on? Come out? Rebecca, tell me nothing. You know.

211
00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:36,200
Speaker 1: My mom never explained to my dad what she saw. Instead,

212
00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:39,760
Speaker 1: she added it to her big bundle of secrets and

213
00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:42,720
Speaker 1: tried to keep life moving by going to auditions and

214
00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:47,200
Speaker 1: pursuing her career. She had already worked with some big names.

215
00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:52,680
Speaker 1: How many startedst memories us freeing, No, No, No, we

216
00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:55,840
Speaker 1: are com broke down. I didn't have a leading role.

217
00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:58,160
Speaker 1: It was just hired as an extra and I got

218
00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:00,760
Speaker 1: bumped up. He gave me lives in US. Have liked me.

219
00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:03,960
Speaker 1: You know, you should make a film about flying sauces.

220
00:16:04,760 --> 00:16:07,240
Speaker 1: I also did a movie with Lisa man Alle and

221
00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:11,960
Speaker 1: the original Arthur Dudley Moore. You're not gonna want to

222
00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:15,440
Speaker 1: be a waitress for the rest of your life. I

223
00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:19,760
Speaker 1: did a walk for Luther V Andrew's first music video.

224
00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:23,920
Speaker 1: You know this song, that's me walking in the video.

225
00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:36,280
Speaker 1: I had a million dollar walk o Caul. My mom

226
00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:39,880
Speaker 1: was disciplined in her career and living in my dad's kitchen.

227
00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:44,560
Speaker 1: Was working out fine somehow, and then in the spring

228
00:16:44,640 --> 00:16:50,160
Speaker 1: of something caught my dad's eye. I had noticed that

229
00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:52,600
Speaker 1: she had a little bit of a bump, you know,

230
00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:55,080
Speaker 1: and for Rebecca to be a pound over, she just

231
00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:58,520
Speaker 1: was working out extra hard in the last month, trying

232
00:16:58,520 --> 00:17:02,120
Speaker 1: to get rid of this slight expansion of her waist.

233
00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:05,440
Speaker 1: And she would talk about it like I can't fucking

234
00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:06,959
Speaker 1: get rid of this, you know. I'm like, what am

235
00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:09,360
Speaker 1: I doing? I can't be getting weight, It's not possible.

236
00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:11,200
Speaker 1: I was like, ah, you know, she'd be like doing

237
00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:18,600
Speaker 1: ninety thousand sit ups. And then one night I was

238
00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:20,840
Speaker 1: just sitting in bed and watching her at four in

239
00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:23,000
Speaker 1: the morning, thinking, how God's name am I going to

240
00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:25,520
Speaker 1: go to sleep. She's stirring a pot on the stove

241
00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:28,840
Speaker 1: and she had her hand on her belly and it

242
00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:32,959
Speaker 1: was the classic person protecting their belly from the stove,

243
00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:37,240
Speaker 1: the fire, a splatter or something. She was holding herself

244
00:17:37,359 --> 00:17:40,919
Speaker 1: and I just said to her, Rebecca, you are with child,

245
00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:46,639
Speaker 1: and she was like, get the funk out of here.

246
00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:51,480
Speaker 1: You know. I'm like, Rebecca, you're pregnant. You're pregnant, and

247
00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:55,320
Speaker 1: she said that is insane. Don't tell me. I'm a woman,

248
00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:57,160
Speaker 1: I know my own body. You don't tell me what's

249
00:17:57,160 --> 00:17:59,000
Speaker 1: going on inside my body. And I'm like, you know what,

250
00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:04,840
Speaker 1: you don't know. Shit. Then we went and she saw

251
00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:09,520
Speaker 1: a doctor and was examined. She was five and a

252
00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:12,760
Speaker 1: half months pregnant. She wasn't you know, a little pregnant,

253
00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:15,880
Speaker 1: and she was was It was very, very far down

254
00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:23,320
Speaker 1: the line. And that's when Rebecca admitted to me, you

255
00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:27,639
Speaker 1: know there's some uh or I've been I do a

256
00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:35,080
Speaker 1: little USh. I commune with Billy and I'm like, what's like, well,

257
00:18:35,119 --> 00:18:40,359
Speaker 1: I take his drug and I'm like, oh yeah, what

258
00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:44,399
Speaker 1: drug is that? You know? And so that's when she

259
00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:48,879
Speaker 1: said to Soxon. And that's when I looked up to

260
00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:56,560
Speaker 1: Sox and to Soxon Billy's drug of choice a prescription methemphetamine.

261
00:18:57,480 --> 00:19:00,359
Speaker 1: And I called up the company that made it and

262
00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:04,760
Speaker 1: they said, yeah, oh yeah, it's definitely taratogenic. And I'm like,

263
00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:07,960
Speaker 1: can you be more specific than like paratogenic foot coming

264
00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:12,200
Speaker 1: out of head, you know, arm from but you know,

265
00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:17,080
Speaker 1: anything can happen. And I just kind of, you know,

266
00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:23,560
Speaker 1: like went to pieces what how did she like what happened? Then?

267
00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:32,520
Speaker 1: Did she stop. Oh yes, immediately immediately, she absolutely uh

268
00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:39,200
Speaker 1: did everything to be healthy and to be strong. My

269
00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:45,399
Speaker 1: mom got clean and kept performing. This is her in

270
00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:49,399
Speaker 1: a movie called Sleepwalk by Sarah Driver. Man, what are

271
00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:51,520
Speaker 1: you doing? I want to have anything to do it

272
00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:59,240
Speaker 1: Sarah's movie Sleepwalk. Um playing the fence. Uh, very pregnant,

273
00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:02,080
Speaker 1: just like a mom before I was born. My mom

274
00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:05,040
Speaker 1: is seriously pregnant. In the clip, in a wife beater

275
00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:08,720
Speaker 1: on a nasty downtown street, a guy pulls up and

276
00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:12,720
Speaker 1: stolen hoop tie and nothing is wrong with a car.

277
00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:17,119
Speaker 1: I don't deal with kids. You don't have. He's bringing

278
00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:19,880
Speaker 1: a stolen car and he doesn't know if it. There's

279
00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:22,520
Speaker 1: a little kid to sleep in the back seat. What

280
00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:26,040
Speaker 1: a waiting on? Stupid? Get this fucking car out of him.

281
00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:28,520
Speaker 1: It's a really good scene. I'll get rid of the

282
00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:30,880
Speaker 1: kid to bring back the car. No, man, don't bring

283
00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:33,760
Speaker 1: the car back. Don't you come back. Don't come back

284
00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:36,040
Speaker 1: with the car. We had Get in the car and split,

285
00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:43,640
Speaker 1: Get in the car and split. Don't you split? Just yet?

286
00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:56,879
Speaker 1: Coming up after the break a special delivery me. You know,

287
00:20:56,960 --> 00:20:58,760
Speaker 1: we wanted to have you on the kitchen floor, and

288
00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:01,440
Speaker 1: we had prepared everything thing to have a birth at home,

289
00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:05,040
Speaker 1: but we immediately discovered that you were backwards. You were

290
00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:08,320
Speaker 1: facing out spine to spine, which you can be very

291
00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:10,920
Speaker 1: painful birth. And before I even took a breath, I

292
00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:14,520
Speaker 1: was causing problems. So my parents took a cab to St.

293
00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:19,920
Speaker 1: Vincent's Hospital where I was born on September two, and

294
00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:24,120
Speaker 1: she delivered you and put you right in my arms,

295
00:21:25,119 --> 00:21:27,240
Speaker 1: and I checked if there was a hand coming out

296
00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:33,480
Speaker 1: of your forehead, and you opened your eyes in my arms.

297
00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:39,600
Speaker 1: You point point looked right at me, And that was

298
00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:43,159
Speaker 1: how you were born. What did my mom do with

299
00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:46,159
Speaker 1: me when you first got home from the hospital. She

300
00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:49,879
Speaker 1: went from I don't want the babies bothering me. You're

301
00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:52,240
Speaker 1: gonna build a wall right here in the kitchen, and

302
00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:54,480
Speaker 1: the babies on that side and I'm on nest side,

303
00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:58,840
Speaker 1: and you know, it's the whole thing two like a

304
00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:02,159
Speaker 1: dragon with a eagan egg. And she just became the

305
00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:08,080
Speaker 1: most protective, wildly defensive, utterly devoted mother you will ever

306
00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:10,040
Speaker 1: see in your life. She just like put you under

307
00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:12,560
Speaker 1: her arm and wouldn't let anyone even near you. You know,

308
00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:17,680
Speaker 1: my mom and dad try to make it work for

309
00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:21,119
Speaker 1: a while. We thought we would try to be together

310
00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:24,080
Speaker 1: to create a kind of stable couple for you. But

311
00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:27,560
Speaker 1: we never thought you're right for me and I'm right

312
00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:29,200
Speaker 1: for you, and we're gonna make a life together. That

313
00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:33,480
Speaker 1: just wasn't It was obviously. Actually the contrary was obvious.

314
00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:40,040
Speaker 1: You know that we were utterly incompatible. Very quickly, Rebecca's

315
00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:43,320
Speaker 1: choices about what was the right way to raise a

316
00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:48,480
Speaker 1: child became just absolutely intrangigan. I decided to move out.

317
00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:54,560
Speaker 1: My dad moved to a nearby loft when I was

318
00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:58,159
Speaker 1: around one. They had some fundamental differences that they just

319
00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:02,440
Speaker 1: couldn't work through. In terms of health and nutrition. Her

320
00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:08,000
Speaker 1: ideas were so extreme and so violently enforced. You couldn't

321
00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:12,400
Speaker 1: eat this, you couldn't eat that, and I was completely

322
00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:17,800
Speaker 1: against that form of upbringing. Her extreme was was really

323
00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:20,560
Speaker 1: to the point of just like steamed vegetables in her

324
00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:25,000
Speaker 1: fingers being handed to you at your mouth. You and

325
00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:27,280
Speaker 1: I would go out together and you'd eat a Drake's cake,

326
00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:29,199
Speaker 1: and I'd come home and bring you home, and Rebecca

327
00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:33,440
Speaker 1: would go Drake's cake. That would be like so freaky.

328
00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:40,160
Speaker 1: But it wasn't just the strict diet. There was something

329
00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:43,800
Speaker 1: else that really bothered my dad. Rebecca decided that you

330
00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:46,439
Speaker 1: were going to be in show biz, and I suddenly

331
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:52,800
Speaker 1: realized that my worst fear of what Rebecca could become

332
00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:55,080
Speaker 1: in relation to you was actually coming true, that she

333
00:23:55,240 --> 00:24:00,720
Speaker 1: was becoming a stage mum. Yeah, still planned not the

334
00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:05,320
Speaker 1: guitar a little saying, this is my first role when

335
00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:08,000
Speaker 1: I was too in a movie called Kiss Daddy, Goodnight.

336
00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:11,440
Speaker 1: You gave me twenty. I gave you a fifty, Rebecca,

337
00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:12,680
Speaker 1: what did you do with the rest of the money.

338
00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:15,600
Speaker 1: Steve BISHEMI played my dad, Go get your own beer,

339
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:19,280
Speaker 1: and my mom played my mom. The movie was Uma

340
00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:32,920
Speaker 1: Thurman's debut two Listen, but Hollywood was only a piece

341
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:35,439
Speaker 1: of my mom's master plan for me. You were going

342
00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:40,560
Speaker 1: to be a Broadway dancer, tap dancer, singer, or a

343
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:42,800
Speaker 1: star or whatever. You were going to go to audition

344
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:49,440
Speaker 1: after audition after audition. It was a horror to me.

345
00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:54,639
Speaker 1: But she was so insisting that you do this. So

346
00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:58,639
Speaker 1: that battle um turned into a series of fights that

347
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:01,000
Speaker 1: were just so off old that I thought for you

348
00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:03,760
Speaker 1: it was unhealthy. I thought it was psychically unhealthy for you.

349
00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:07,200
Speaker 1: That she was like pulling you out of my arms

350
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:14,359
Speaker 1: and like yelling in the street, and he feared that

351
00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:17,399
Speaker 1: she might have been slipping back into an old habit.

352
00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:22,119
Speaker 1: But I was detecting that Rebecca might have been returning

353
00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:28,040
Speaker 1: to dis oxen occasionally. Um, she would have episodes, and

354
00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:30,960
Speaker 1: these episodes, I think now that I know more, we're

355
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:34,879
Speaker 1: a combination of alcohol into oxen, where she literally behaved

356
00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:37,880
Speaker 1: in a psychotic manner. You know, she yelled and shouted

357
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:42,360
Speaker 1: and screamed and hung onto lamp posts and was completely

358
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:45,320
Speaker 1: incoherent what she was saying, and her eyes were kind

359
00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:48,640
Speaker 1: of like lacquered over with something, and she wasn't looking

360
00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:50,480
Speaker 1: at you directly, and I didn't know what was going on,

361
00:25:50,640 --> 00:26:01,040
Speaker 1: and it was a horrifying circumstance. My dad's new loft

362
00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:03,359
Speaker 1: was only a couple of blocks away, and I'd go

363
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:08,080
Speaker 1: stay with him on weekends. What was our relationship like perfect?

364
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:14,560
Speaker 1: We were absolutely like fascinated in love. Um, you know,

365
00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:17,159
Speaker 1: we had lots of theatrics in the house. We played

366
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:22,879
Speaker 1: all kinds of role games of gangster Warrior. We built

367
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:26,120
Speaker 1: little chateaus and palaces. We went to the park a lot.

368
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:28,520
Speaker 1: We played a lot of ball together, like you were

369
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:31,760
Speaker 1: like a master ball player of any kind of ball.

370
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:36,639
Speaker 1: And I'm like a sports spastic. But for you, I

371
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:39,720
Speaker 1: did everything that I could. I don't know. We just

372
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:42,200
Speaker 1: had fun. We went everywhere. We went to museums, we

373
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:46,320
Speaker 1: went to we walked a lot, you know, and we

374
00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:49,200
Speaker 1: just did ship. I mean, I just recall always having

375
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:51,280
Speaker 1: the best time with you. And this made things even

376
00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:54,320
Speaker 1: worse because then when you would have to go back

377
00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:57,000
Speaker 1: to Rebecca, you wouldn't want to go. And it was

378
00:26:57,280 --> 00:27:02,960
Speaker 1: every single time this violent ripping away, like literally you

379
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:05,920
Speaker 1: screaming and saying, Dad, I don't want to go, I

380
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:07,920
Speaker 1: don't want to go, I don't and go, and Rebecca

381
00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:12,000
Speaker 1: like feeling infuriated that you didn't want to go with her.

382
00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:19,600
Speaker 1: And then when I was six, my dad took a

383
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:23,360
Speaker 1: job with a traveling dance company and left the country.

384
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:27,440
Speaker 1: He wouldn't move back to New York for over a decade.

385
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:32,840
Speaker 1: For a long time, I couldn't reconcile how or why

386
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:37,159
Speaker 1: he would have left me behind like that. But there

387
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:39,520
Speaker 1: was a key piece of information that I didn't have.

388
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:46,840
Speaker 1: There was something that you were hiding from me. I

389
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:50,960
Speaker 1: didn't tell you that I was a harmonetic and I

390
00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:58,760
Speaker 1: was very ill, you know, one day without a hundred

391
00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:02,440
Speaker 1: and fifty bucks worth of her when and I'm practically

392
00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:08,440
Speaker 1: a dead body. So it's not like I'm kind of

393
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:12,000
Speaker 1: a valiant night able to rescue you. I mean myself

394
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:17,040
Speaker 1: deeply impaired, you know, so you know, in the end,

395
00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:18,880
Speaker 1: not in the end, but in the middle, it became

396
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:24,200
Speaker 1: a question of what what do you rescue? First? My

397
00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:27,159
Speaker 1: dad explains that he left New York because he was

398
00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:31,040
Speaker 1: convinced he'd never be able to get clean there, and

399
00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:32,920
Speaker 1: it was very hard for you to see that. And

400
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:34,920
Speaker 1: I think it's still it's hard for you to imagine

401
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:39,200
Speaker 1: that I would take certain decisions in order not to um,

402
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:43,640
Speaker 1: you know, in order to survive that. It's just hard

403
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:45,800
Speaker 1: to imagine if you're not in that position yourself, if

404
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:48,920
Speaker 1: you're not really in that perspective of being a dope fiend,

405
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:56,440
Speaker 1: the um kind of strangely super dad, you know, when

406
00:28:56,560 --> 00:29:00,120
Speaker 1: Dad's high, Dad's like, oh so much fun. That's aly

407
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:02,920
Speaker 1: an awful thing for a child. It gives no parameter

408
00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:07,480
Speaker 1: or balance to a child. We are not even ourselves,

409
00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:09,760
Speaker 1: you know, the finality of someone saying, well, it wasn't

410
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:14,720
Speaker 1: myself that day, Well, I wasn't myself that decade. Not

411
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:17,040
Speaker 1: only was I not myself, but I am not a

412
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:20,760
Speaker 1: really reliable reporter on my own behavior. I should not

413
00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:24,520
Speaker 1: be narrating my own existence at that time, because you

414
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:28,400
Speaker 1: will not be getting the facts. I was not a

415
00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:32,320
Speaker 1: possession of the facts. This is a really hard thing

416
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:39,000
Speaker 1: to describe to people. You know, I'm sorry. I'm just

417
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:41,520
Speaker 1: having a moment because I've never heard you own it

418
00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:44,680
Speaker 1: so completely. So I'm just kind of well, I'm learning.

419
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:51,000
Speaker 1: It's a life process. But I do not expect or

420
00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 1: want forgiveness or absolution of any kind. The only thing

421
00:29:56,760 --> 00:30:07,920
Speaker 1: I could ever hope for is understanding in the same way,

422
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:09,880
Speaker 1: in the same vein as me asking you what our

423
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:13,160
Speaker 1: relationship was like? What did you experience my relationship with

424
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:21,560
Speaker 1: my mom as when I was that little. I'm a

425
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:25,240
Speaker 1: little worried that we're going into family. Should I not

426
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:29,640
Speaker 1: worry about this because it's your show? But I mean,

427
00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:31,960
Speaker 1: this is a very difficult, very complex stuff, and I

428
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:34,640
Speaker 1: don't know if if this is the forum. I'm not

429
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:37,560
Speaker 1: I'm not, I'm a little bit. I'm just wondering. Let's

430
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:40,600
Speaker 1: take a five minute break, Let's let's get some air

431
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:42,680
Speaker 1: and come back, and then we'll do it. Are you

432
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:44,560
Speaker 1: sure this is where you want to go. I get

433
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:47,560
Speaker 1: the feeling that you're like tating it back that length,

434
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:49,200
Speaker 1: So like, let's talk about it, but let's go out

435
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:54,440
Speaker 1: the outward. It's not so hot. Wondering, we step outside

436
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:58,440
Speaker 1: the studio to talk. My dad says he's nervous about

437
00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:01,560
Speaker 1: painting my mom is some kind of villain. He says

438
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:04,000
Speaker 1: he doesn't want to hurt her, and that he's worried

439
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:07,480
Speaker 1: about what I'm doing with this project. After a half

440
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:10,360
Speaker 1: hour in debate, he agrees to talk about his concerns

441
00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:13,080
Speaker 1: on Mike. It's not that I'm not prepared to talk

442
00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:15,320
Speaker 1: about it, but it's just under the under the circumstances

443
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:20,360
Speaker 1: of us recording our conversation about your life in some

444
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:25,600
Speaker 1: vague connection to Billy Balls. I don't know if it's

445
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:30,360
Speaker 1: the best place to um. Well, it's not so vaguely

446
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:38,920
Speaker 1: connected to Billy Balls. I explained to my dad that

447
00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:42,760
Speaker 1: Billy's story is incomplete without the story of the lives

448
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:47,560
Speaker 1: his death affected. His killing caused a rupture in my

449
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:51,320
Speaker 1: mom's psyche, a trauma that rippled into my own life.

450
00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:55,960
Speaker 1: I grew up in a house of grief, helping her

451
00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:59,640
Speaker 1: carry the weight of her loss, and sometimes that grief

452
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:05,240
Speaker 1: was explosive that I became collateral damage. As an adult,

453
00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:08,200
Speaker 1: I refused to let her go, to shut her out,

454
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:11,960
Speaker 1: to give up on her. But to do that, to

455
00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:14,560
Speaker 1: keep her close to me, I have to find some

456
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:17,400
Speaker 1: understanding of the pain that made her lash out so

457
00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:23,120
Speaker 1: viciously during my childhood, you know, learning to forgive like

458
00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:26,320
Speaker 1: that's such a like a It's like on a Hallmark

459
00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 1: card somewhere. But at a certain point we have to

460
00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:35,600
Speaker 1: acknowledge and accept that there were things that happened that

461
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:42,200
Speaker 1: caused trauma. The only success I have ever had in

462
00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:46,680
Speaker 1: finding any peace around my relationship with my mother specifically,

463
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:54,160
Speaker 1: has been from understanding that is why I am doing

464
00:32:54,600 --> 00:33:14,479
Speaker 1: this project. Could in the next chapter of The Ballad

465
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:18,240
Speaker 1: of Billy Balls this is it is Yeah, this is

466
00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:22,040
Speaker 1: the building. I'll never forget these columns. Ever, So the

467
00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:26,920
Speaker 1: New York County Family Court, really bad ship happened here

468
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:42,600
Speaker 1: Crimetown is Zack Stewart Pontier and Mark Smarling. The Ballad

469
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:45,640
Speaker 1: of Billy Balls is hosted by me Io Tillip Right

470
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:49,200
Speaker 1: and made in partnership with Caden's thirteen. You can find

471
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:51,840
Speaker 1: me on the Internet. Um Io loves You on everything,

472
00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:54,320
Speaker 1: and if you're interested in my story, I wrote a

473
00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:56,960
Speaker 1: book about all of this stuff. It's called Darling Days.

474
00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:00,480
Speaker 1: We also want to hear from you. We have a

475
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:02,360
Speaker 1: voicemail that we set up for you to call us.

476
00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:05,560
Speaker 1: Here's Yucca. I know that you've been concerned about whether

477
00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:07,560
Speaker 1: this podcast is the right thing to do for your mom,

478
00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:10,800
Speaker 1: but um, I think it's wise to not leave yourself

479
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:14,880
Speaker 1: out of that equation. His death is probably this inextricable

480
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:17,360
Speaker 1: part of your identity. I don't know, Maybe it doesn't

481
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:19,800
Speaker 1: matter if this is the best thing to do or

482
00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:21,960
Speaker 1: the right thing to do for your mom, because it

483
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:24,239
Speaker 1: seems like maybe something that you need to do, and

484
00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:26,359
Speaker 1: I really admire you for doing it. I think it's

485
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:31,200
Speaker 1: super gusty and inspiring. Thank you, Yuka. If there's something

486
00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:34,920
Speaker 1: on your mind, thoughts, feelings, complaints, a joke, whatever, call

487
00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:37,640
Speaker 1: us and leave us a voicemail at five seven oh

488
00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:42,760
Speaker 1: three nine to nine zero. I love hearing from you guys.

489
00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:46,719
Speaker 1: You can also get into our discussion forum on our website,

490
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:56,120
Speaker 1: The Ballad of Billie Balls dot com. The show is

491
00:34:56,200 --> 00:35:00,480
Speaker 1: produced by me, Kevin Sheppard, and Ryan Swygert. Our senior

492
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:05,120
Speaker 1: producer is Austin Mitchell, editing by Zack Stewart Pontier and

493
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:09,920
Speaker 1: Mark Smirlin fact checking by Jennifer Blackman. This episode was

494
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:14,160
Speaker 1: mixed by Sam Bear, Sound design and music by Kenny

495
00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:18,800
Speaker 1: q C Jack. Additional music by Shebo Pampolonia. Thank you,

496
00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:22,960
Speaker 1: Shebo Dope name. Our title track is Dark Allies by

497
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:32,400
Speaker 1: Light Asylum. Archival research by Brennan Reese. Special thanks this

498
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:35,759
Speaker 1: week to my dad Seth for being so open and

499
00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:40,760
Speaker 1: honest and always growing with me. Thanks to Daniella Ariah,

500
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:45,480
Speaker 1: Rachel Lee Right, Emily Wiederman, Green Card Pictures, Alessandro Sentauro,

501
00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:50,000
Speaker 1: Bill Clegg, Ben Davis, Orn Rosenbaum, and the team at

502
00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:54,279
Speaker 1: Caden's thirteen. Special thanks to Steve Halterman for letting me

503
00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:58,040
Speaker 1: into the station to record this one, and of course,

504
00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:01,560
Speaker 1: my mom, without whom none of this would be possible,