WEBVTT - Learning to Be Blind 0:00:15.304 --> 0:00:15.824 Pushkin. 0:00:20.864 --> 0:00:22.904 I'm Andrew Leland, and I wrote How to Be Blind 0:00:22.944 --> 0:00:24.944 for The New Yorker, and it's the story of the week. 0:00:25.864 --> 0:00:29.144 As I've mentioned before, in a failed attempt to get 0:00:29.144 --> 0:00:32.024 you to buy my book, man made a stupid quest 0:00:32.024 --> 0:00:36.184 from masculinity. Back in twenty ten, the United States Army 0:00:36.264 --> 0:00:38.304 allowed me to join a troop to do a week 0:00:38.344 --> 0:00:41.704 of boot camp at Fort Knox. One of the exercises 0:00:41.824 --> 0:00:44.384 involved a sergeant taking me out into the middle of 0:00:44.424 --> 0:00:47.064 a forest where I was supposed to find a flag 0:00:47.304 --> 0:00:51.304 that I was given compass coordinates for. I calculated that 0:00:51.424 --> 0:00:54.664 sixty seven of my steps equal one hundred meters and 0:00:54.704 --> 0:00:58.024 then went out to find it. The biggest challenge for 0:00:58.104 --> 0:01:01.864 me was that this forest had a lot of butterflies, 0:01:02.384 --> 0:01:05.144 like more butterflies than I had ever seen in a 0:01:05.264 --> 0:01:10.424 butterfly sanctuary, and all kinds of different butterflies, each more 0:01:10.504 --> 0:01:14.504 beautiful than the last. My other problem was I couldn't 0:01:14.504 --> 0:01:17.384 remember which way was north or east and how many 0:01:17.424 --> 0:01:21.624 steps i'd taken, forrest really look the same no matter 0:01:21.624 --> 0:01:25.904 which way you go. Eventually, my sergeant gave up on me, 0:01:26.984 --> 0:01:29.984 so I know for a proven fact that there is 0:01:30.144 --> 0:01:32.624 no way i'd be able to do what Andrew Leland 0:01:32.624 --> 0:01:40.824 did in Denver. Writing is hard. 0:01:41.024 --> 0:01:44.344 Who's got that kind of time? When you're already busy 0:01:44.424 --> 0:01:46.944 trying to be you all stand So it turns on 0:01:47.064 --> 0:01:50.984 a mic. Maybe the twiddles enough because a journalist trand 0:01:51.024 --> 0:01:56.224 has got in that juble jibes. Single story. Just listen 0:01:56.344 --> 0:02:02.504 to smart people speak. Conversation, film and information is. 0:02:02.464 --> 0:02:03.424 A story U. 0:02:14.264 --> 0:02:18.424 When reporters confront something difficult in our personal lives, our 0:02:18.464 --> 0:02:21.144 defense mechanism is to research the hell out of it, 0:02:21.424 --> 0:02:22.984 which is what I did when I found out I 0:02:23.064 --> 0:02:24.944 was having a boy, and then no idea how to 0:02:25.064 --> 0:02:27.184 raise a boy because I know how to be a boy, 0:02:27.384 --> 0:02:31.024 and I wrote the book Man Made a stupid Quest 0:02:31.024 --> 0:02:35.264 for masculinity, available in bookstores. That's exactly what Andrew Leland 0:02:35.304 --> 0:02:37.624 did for The New Yorker when he started to go blind. 0:02:38.664 --> 0:02:41.104 Before we start, I know that among the very many 0:02:41.144 --> 0:02:44.384 things you've done, you've been a radio and podcast producer. 0:02:44.384 --> 0:02:46.824 So if any point you want to correct something I'm 0:02:46.824 --> 0:02:49.144 doing wrong or add a sound effect, just feel free 0:02:49.184 --> 0:02:49.504 to do that. 0:02:49.744 --> 0:02:52.304 Your headphones are ond backwards, but they are right. No, 0:02:52.344 --> 0:02:52.944 I'm just kidding. 0:02:52.944 --> 0:02:57.784 Oh jeez. All right, So when did you first realize 0:02:57.824 --> 0:02:59.264 your vision was changing. 0:02:59.904 --> 0:03:00.264 Yeah. 0:03:00.624 --> 0:03:03.624 I was living in New Mexico for about five years 0:03:03.624 --> 0:03:05.984 between fifth and tenth grade, and that was the time 0:03:05.984 --> 0:03:08.744 of my life when I started hanging out with the 0:03:08.744 --> 0:03:11.544 cooler older kids and doing drugs I should not have 0:03:11.584 --> 0:03:12.904 been doing at that age. 0:03:13.104 --> 0:03:14.584 What age were you doing drugs? 0:03:15.024 --> 0:03:19.784 I like did acid and mushrooms in seventh grade. 0:03:19.984 --> 0:03:22.104 Oh my god, that's not okay. 0:03:22.784 --> 0:03:24.744 Imagine how intelligent I would be right now if I 0:03:24.744 --> 0:03:27.664 hadn't done that, I would be interviewing you right now. 0:03:28.904 --> 0:03:31.504 Works, it's not how it works. But yeah, it was 0:03:31.624 --> 0:03:32.984 very bad idea. I regret it. 0:03:33.064 --> 0:03:35.064 And it was that period when there was a lot 0:03:35.064 --> 0:03:38.304 of like cruising out into the woods at night happening 0:03:38.384 --> 0:03:42.024 as we were being bad, and the drugs made it 0:03:42.064 --> 0:03:44.344 confusing because I was kind of like, am I just 0:03:44.384 --> 0:03:46.864 like really high. And that's why it's hard to follow everybody. 0:03:46.904 --> 0:03:51.064 But the disease I have RP or Retinitis pigmentosa first 0:03:51.144 --> 0:03:54.424 manifests as a night blindness, and so I would just 0:03:54.464 --> 0:03:57.224 have a lot of trouble picking my way around the 0:03:57.544 --> 0:04:01.024 pinone trees and this darkened hillside, and that just those 0:04:01.104 --> 0:04:05.264 kind of experiences accumulated to the point where I diagnosed myself. 0:04:05.944 --> 0:04:07.864 And then a couple of years later, my mom had 0:04:07.944 --> 0:04:10.944 moved to southern California by point, and I had complained 0:04:11.024 --> 0:04:12.744 enough by then that she was like, you know, let's 0:04:12.864 --> 0:04:15.464 go to a retinal specialist and this like heavy hitter 0:04:15.744 --> 0:04:19.024 retinal doctor was like, yeah, retina is pigmenttosa. You'll be 0:04:19.064 --> 0:04:20.544 blind by middle age. 0:04:21.064 --> 0:04:25.544 Oh wow, were there moments when you noticed it getting worse? 0:04:26.864 --> 0:04:31.424 Yeah, it's it's such a tricky thing to track because 0:04:32.184 --> 0:04:35.464 it's so gradual, and it's really just like I would 0:04:35.464 --> 0:04:37.824 compare it to noticing that you've gotten taller, right, And 0:04:38.064 --> 0:04:41.024 my understanding of how RP and blindness works is it 0:04:41.104 --> 0:04:43.584 is like it's very slow and then things just start 0:04:43.624 --> 0:04:46.464 to get disastrous enough in your retina that it kind 0:04:46.464 --> 0:04:48.424 of falls off a cliff. And the tricky thing is 0:04:48.424 --> 0:04:53.104 that often the milestones are self imposed as much as 0:04:53.144 --> 0:04:56.024 they are imposed from the outside. So what I mean 0:04:56.064 --> 0:04:59.464 by that is like you kind of imagine a blindness 0:04:59.504 --> 0:05:01.224 official coming up to you and saying, sir, I'm gonna 0:05:01.224 --> 0:05:03.464 have to revoke your driver's license. But that doesn't happen, right, 0:05:03.504 --> 0:05:05.704 Like I can passed the driving test, But then there's 0:05:05.784 --> 0:05:08.184 enough close calls that you're like, I think I might 0:05:08.344 --> 0:05:10.744 kill somebody by probably gonna stop driving at night. 0:05:10.904 --> 0:05:12.304 During the day it's still totally fine. 0:05:12.304 --> 0:05:14.464 And then at a certain point it's like, oh, that was 0:05:14.584 --> 0:05:17.424 the third cyclist I almost murdered. Maybe daytime driving is 0:05:17.464 --> 0:05:18.344 not a good idea. 0:05:18.264 --> 0:05:21.664 Right, So giving up driving is obviously a huge change, 0:05:21.984 --> 0:05:26.544 But were there smaller ways that your diminishing vision affected 0:05:26.584 --> 0:05:27.624 your day to day life. 0:05:28.184 --> 0:05:28.424 Yeah? 0:05:28.504 --> 0:05:30.464 Yeah, So I would say like every few years I 0:05:30.464 --> 0:05:32.464 would have another experience like that. Like, so there was 0:05:32.504 --> 0:05:34.784 the close calls driving, and then it started to creep 0:05:34.824 --> 0:05:38.944 into pedestrian life. So I was in a cafe and 0:05:39.104 --> 0:05:42.744 I turned to go from the register to where the 0:05:43.424 --> 0:05:46.344 creamers and the sugars are kept, and I just didn't 0:05:46.344 --> 0:05:48.104 see a little toddler there and I kind of hip 0:05:48.184 --> 0:05:50.384 checked him and he like fell to the ground and 0:05:50.544 --> 0:05:53.624 was uninjured, but it just felt really bad and really 0:05:53.904 --> 0:05:57.504 raised the ire of his parents. And you know, like 0:05:57.544 --> 0:06:01.024 would kick a dog accidentally, and I knocked over two 0:06:01.064 --> 0:06:03.664 full beers like directly onto the lapse of a pair 0:06:03.664 --> 0:06:05.584 of women on a date in a bar. Because the 0:06:05.624 --> 0:06:07.264 weird thing about it is you can see right, So 0:06:07.304 --> 0:06:08.824 like I'm seeing all kinds of stuff. You just don't 0:06:08.824 --> 0:06:10.544 know what you can't see. So like I saw a 0:06:10.624 --> 0:06:13.024 jukebox and I was sort of like a little tipsily, like. 0:06:13.064 --> 0:06:14.824 I'm going to put on guided by voices. 0:06:15.144 --> 0:06:16.664 And then I was like nothing in between me and 0:06:16.704 --> 0:06:18.984 this jukebox, and like all you know, one hundred and 0:06:18.984 --> 0:06:21.624 eighty pounds of me just like lunges towards the jukebox, 0:06:21.624 --> 0:06:24.344 and I don't see like table full beers. Women on 0:06:24.424 --> 0:06:28.104 date just ruined their date, felt really bad. And so 0:06:28.504 --> 0:06:31.624 those kind of experiences accumulate to the point where it's 0:06:31.664 --> 0:06:34.544 like a cane would have helped in all of those situations. 0:06:34.904 --> 0:06:37.624 So psychologically, what is it like to decide to use 0:06:37.664 --> 0:06:38.264 a cane? 0:06:38.824 --> 0:06:41.984 Incredibly difficult the cane. As soon as you go anywhere 0:06:42.264 --> 0:06:46.424 holding a long white cane, you are treated as a 0:06:46.424 --> 0:06:51.424 blind person. And people don't treat blind people normally. No, 0:06:51.864 --> 0:06:55.664 And another big difficult thing about the cane For somebody 0:06:55.664 --> 0:06:58.784 with RP, you just feel like a fraud because on 0:06:58.824 --> 0:07:01.304 the one hand, it's absolutely saving all the toddlers and 0:07:01.344 --> 0:07:04.584 dogs and beers from being knocked over. On the other hand, 0:07:04.624 --> 0:07:06.744 people see you look at your phone or like check 0:07:06.824 --> 0:07:09.104 the don't walk sign flashing and they're like. 0:07:09.144 --> 0:07:10.184 What was this guy trying to do? 0:07:10.304 --> 0:07:12.424 Is he trying to like gain sympathy over here? And 0:07:12.464 --> 0:07:14.184 you could just see it on their faces. It's like 0:07:14.424 --> 0:07:16.024 all these weird looks. 0:07:15.944 --> 0:07:18.824 Because we're so binary, right, Like I see someone go 0:07:18.904 --> 0:07:20.984 through the airport in the wheelchair and then pop up 0:07:21.104 --> 0:07:24.184 and get on the flight or it feels like alive, 0:07:24.264 --> 0:07:25.504 but there's a ring photally. 0:07:25.184 --> 0:07:26.304 Obviously of course. 0:07:26.384 --> 0:07:27.984 Yeah, I mean that the wheelchair is a good example. 0:07:27.984 --> 0:07:31.064 It's the same thing, like, you know, just because somebody 0:07:31.664 --> 0:07:35.264 can physically take steps, does that mean that they're doing 0:07:35.344 --> 0:07:38.024 themselves a service? Are they going to be happier getting 0:07:38.064 --> 0:07:40.024 through that airport walking? Like no, it's probably going to 0:07:40.064 --> 0:07:42.344 be incredibly painful, But that doesn't make them a fraud 0:07:42.464 --> 0:07:44.544 or a you know, like a lazy person. It's just 0:07:44.784 --> 0:07:47.504 it's like another it's another way of inhabiting the world. 0:07:47.664 --> 0:07:50.264 It is interesting though, the it's a common phenomenon, the 0:07:50.264 --> 0:07:54.464 sort of disability doubters. You know, people are constantly calling 0:07:54.504 --> 0:07:58.664 into question people like Stevie Wonder Truthers is all. There 0:07:58.744 --> 0:08:01.704 is a whole horrible subreddit of people. 0:08:01.544 --> 0:08:03.504 Who think Stevie is faking his blindness. 0:08:03.784 --> 0:08:06.544 Why would Stevie Wonder be faking his blindness for this long? 0:08:07.464 --> 0:08:10.704 Of course he's not right, obviously, it's completely bogus. But 0:08:10.864 --> 0:08:13.704 the evidence that they provide is bananas. My favorite one 0:08:13.744 --> 0:08:15.944 is that somebody saw him in like a Best Buy 0:08:16.024 --> 0:08:18.064 or something, buying a TV and they're like, why would 0:08:18.064 --> 0:08:21.264 a blind guy be buying a TV? Like, well, maybe 0:08:21.304 --> 0:08:22.984 because he like has a family and they want to 0:08:22.984 --> 0:08:27.504 watch TV. And also blind people watch TV too, But anyway, 0:08:27.984 --> 0:08:30.504 it's it's dispiriting in the extreme. 0:08:30.784 --> 0:08:32.824 I do think none of us not none of us me. 0:08:32.984 --> 0:08:35.504 I don't know how to deal with blind people because 0:08:35.544 --> 0:08:37.864 I lived on twenty third between ninth and tenth, which 0:08:37.904 --> 0:08:41.264 is two blocks from Vision, which is the place that 0:08:41.584 --> 0:08:43.584 has a lot of blind people living there in services, 0:08:43.624 --> 0:08:47.464 and and so I'd constantly be at the crosswalk with 0:08:47.504 --> 0:08:50.144 a blind person, yeah, not knowing if I should make 0:08:50.184 --> 0:08:52.184 an offer to help or not. But I didn't know 0:08:52.224 --> 0:08:53.184 what I was supposed to do. 0:08:53.704 --> 0:08:56.784 Yeah, I'll tell you offering is fine. 0:08:57.064 --> 0:08:58.864 Fine or good? There's a difference. 0:08:59.384 --> 0:09:00.264 I would say fine. 0:09:00.384 --> 0:09:01.744 I mean it's it's tough because you got to make 0:09:01.784 --> 0:09:04.064 the judgment call and like if I was about to say, 0:09:04.464 --> 0:09:08.064 if they seem like they need help, then you can offer, 0:09:08.104 --> 0:09:10.024 and if not, just leave them alone. But like, the 0:09:10.064 --> 0:09:13.704 general public's perception of what seeming like you need help 0:09:13.824 --> 0:09:17.624 is for anybody with a disability is grossly, wildly inflated, 0:09:17.824 --> 0:09:20.824 because basically, like being blind on a street corner equals 0:09:20.824 --> 0:09:22.904 seems like they need help for most people, and the 0:09:22.944 --> 0:09:25.584 reality is it's not, especially if you're on like that. 0:09:25.824 --> 0:09:27.984 They live there, right, they probably have walked that, done 0:09:28.024 --> 0:09:30.584 that crossing a dozen times. Imagine you, right, you're on 0:09:30.624 --> 0:09:33.304 your way to work, You're on West twenty third Street, 0:09:33.944 --> 0:09:36.904 and somebody says to you, like that's the Empire State Building, 0:09:36.984 --> 0:09:40.144 you know, and you're like fuck you, Like I live 0:09:40.144 --> 0:09:41.784 in New York, Like I don't need you know. It's 0:09:41.904 --> 0:09:44.464 that level of like oh, little child, like is your 0:09:44.504 --> 0:09:45.504 mommy somewhere else? 0:09:45.784 --> 0:09:47.144 And it's it's infuriating. 0:09:47.264 --> 0:09:50.384 Also, I think from what I remember, the blind people 0:09:50.384 --> 0:09:52.584 were moving at a slightly different pace than me, slower, 0:09:52.824 --> 0:09:55.384 and so that's when I get confused about whether someone 0:09:55.384 --> 0:09:57.744 wanted help, because I want everyone to be moving at 0:09:57.744 --> 0:09:58.424 the same pace as me. 0:09:59.064 --> 0:10:01.624 Right, Yeah, I mean, this is like the kind of 0:10:01.984 --> 0:10:03.544 I think you're touching on like a kind of core 0:10:03.664 --> 0:10:07.984 idea in disability, which is like it makes people uncomfortable 0:10:08.064 --> 0:10:11.304 when the norm are challenged a little bit, and any 0:10:11.304 --> 0:10:14.664 disability challenges norms, you know. Nowadays, with my cane, I've 0:10:14.664 --> 0:10:17.384 had this experience numerous times recently where I'll be in 0:10:17.424 --> 0:10:19.504 a restaurant trying to find the bathroom, and I'll end 0:10:19.584 --> 0:10:22.264 up in a weird little alcove where like there's a 0:10:22.264 --> 0:10:24.384 pair of people on a date, you know, and I'm 0:10:24.424 --> 0:10:26.784 suddenly like at their table as though I'm a waiter, 0:10:26.984 --> 0:10:29.184 but instead I'm just like random blind dude. But the 0:10:29.224 --> 0:10:30.744 more I do it, the more I'm like, that's just 0:10:30.784 --> 0:10:32.704 like my way of finding the bathroom is I might 0:10:32.824 --> 0:10:34.264 end up in a couple of cul de sacs, but 0:10:34.344 --> 0:10:36.344 like I don't need anybody to grab my elbow and 0:10:36.384 --> 0:10:38.744 take me there. I just realize, oh, I veered too 0:10:38.784 --> 0:10:40.664 far to the left. I'm going to zoop around to 0:10:40.704 --> 0:10:42.544 the right and look at that I'm at the bathroom. 0:10:42.984 --> 0:10:45.304 And to me, more and more, I'm like, that is 0:10:45.624 --> 0:10:47.944 a blind way of finding the bathroom in a dark restaurant, 0:10:48.024 --> 0:10:51.064 and I'm comfortable with that. But I think the thing 0:10:51.184 --> 0:10:55.224 that I would like you to appreciate is basically that 0:10:55.344 --> 0:10:57.464 like that wasn't being lost. I don't need to be 0:10:57.464 --> 0:10:59.584 embarrassed about that. You don't need to be embarrassed about that. 0:10:59.584 --> 0:11:02.064 That's just like how I do it right. 0:11:02.224 --> 0:11:05.144 It's almost like dealing with a different culture that you 0:11:05.184 --> 0:11:08.784 don't You don't impose your culture on the Japanese when 0:11:08.784 --> 0:11:08.944 you go. 0:11:09.344 --> 0:11:11.224 It's not almost like it it is. I mean, disability 0:11:11.224 --> 0:11:12.584 culture is a different culture. 0:11:12.784 --> 0:11:13.384 Absolutely. 0:11:14.064 --> 0:11:17.264 Okay, So you knew your condition was going to get worse, 0:11:17.264 --> 0:11:19.224 So how did you decide to prepare for that? 0:11:19.704 --> 0:11:23.504 I think, like most people with RP, I postponed it 0:11:23.544 --> 0:11:26.944 for as long as I possibly could, until I was 0:11:27.144 --> 0:11:30.104 in this situation where I'm like, Okay, things are getting 0:11:30.144 --> 0:11:33.264 more and more dangerous. And the most important thing that 0:11:33.824 --> 0:11:36.184 I did, and that any person who's going through what 0:11:36.264 --> 0:11:39.584 I was going through can do, is to get blindness skills. 0:11:39.744 --> 0:11:42.744 And I'd started to get some blindness skills from my 0:11:43.024 --> 0:11:46.424 local sort of state Commission for the Blind, where a 0:11:46.704 --> 0:11:49.344 rail instructor came to my house, and there was a 0:11:49.424 --> 0:11:51.864 cane instructor, there was a guy who showed me sort 0:11:51.864 --> 0:11:54.864 of techniques of daily living. But all of those people 0:11:54.864 --> 0:11:57.184 were cited, and I had been doing more and more 0:11:57.224 --> 0:12:00.744 research and realizing that there were other ways of learning 0:12:00.784 --> 0:12:03.104 how to be blind out there that were in fact 0:12:03.184 --> 0:12:05.824 quite different from what I was getting from the State Commission. 0:12:05.824 --> 0:12:08.424 And so finally, after a while, I decided I would 0:12:08.464 --> 0:12:11.304 go to the Colorado Center for the Blind, which is 0:12:11.344 --> 0:12:14.384 one of the National Federation of the Blind's three residential 0:12:14.424 --> 0:12:19.064 training centers. And normally the stay is nine months. Because 0:12:19.504 --> 0:12:22.424 I had a young son and you know, a lot 0:12:22.464 --> 0:12:23.944 of other things going on, I didn't feel like I 0:12:23.944 --> 0:12:26.064 could go for nine months, but they let me go 0:12:26.144 --> 0:12:28.024 for two weeks, and then I ended up going back 0:12:28.504 --> 0:12:30.944 like a year later for another two weeks. And so 0:12:30.984 --> 0:12:33.304 I think everything I say about it should have that 0:12:33.424 --> 0:12:35.464 asterisk next to it that, like, the real training is 0:12:35.504 --> 0:12:36.384 a full nine months. 0:12:36.664 --> 0:12:39.584 And what are the politics of this organization, because I 0:12:39.624 --> 0:12:42.304 know in the blind community there's different philosophies. 0:12:42.544 --> 0:12:42.824 Yeah. 0:12:42.864 --> 0:12:45.344 So the National Federation of the Blind was founded in 0:12:45.464 --> 0:12:48.744 nineteen forty and they really are the first instance in 0:12:48.824 --> 0:12:52.224 the US of an organization by the blind for the blind. Like, 0:12:52.264 --> 0:12:55.384 there is a really really strong history in the history 0:12:55.384 --> 0:12:58.464 of blindness of cited people with exceedingly low expectations for 0:12:58.504 --> 0:13:01.584 what blind people are capable of teaching them the bare 0:13:01.624 --> 0:13:06.744 minimum and basically like feeding them into lives of smallness 0:13:06.744 --> 0:13:10.664 with good intentions, but they have failed to give people 0:13:10.784 --> 0:13:13.304 real independence. Is the NFB's contingent. I think if you 0:13:13.344 --> 0:13:16.464 look at the history of blindness, there's example after example 0:13:16.784 --> 0:13:23.504 of the failure of cited people to imagine a rich, full, successful, independent, 0:13:23.624 --> 0:13:26.464 joyful blind life. And you really see that in the 0:13:26.504 --> 0:13:29.664 outcomes of the seventy percent unemployment rate for one. 0:13:30.144 --> 0:13:34.744 Oh wow, Okay, so this is a slightly more libertarian take, 0:13:34.904 --> 0:13:36.984 is that it is that we can teach ourselves to 0:13:37.024 --> 0:13:37.544 do anything. 0:13:37.984 --> 0:13:38.304 Yeah. 0:13:38.384 --> 0:13:42.864 So everyone who works at the NFB training centers is 0:13:42.904 --> 0:13:46.464 blind with very few exceptions. And they have a former 0:13:46.584 --> 0:13:48.744 YMCA that they bought in Littleton, which is one of 0:13:48.744 --> 0:13:51.264 the like cities within Denver. You know, it's like got 0:13:51.304 --> 0:13:53.544 the same footprint of the YMCA, but it's just wild 0:13:53.584 --> 0:13:56.064 because it's a completely blind space. Like the receptionist is 0:13:56.064 --> 0:13:58.664 blind and you walk in and she's like, who's that 0:13:58.784 --> 0:14:00.384 you know, and then you kind of engage with her. 0:14:00.504 --> 0:14:03.144 And there's a braille typewriter right there that every time 0:14:03.144 --> 0:14:04.584 you come in or go out, you sign her out. 0:14:04.824 --> 0:14:07.344 It was an incredible experience for me arriving there, because, 0:14:07.704 --> 0:14:10.424 you know, as somebody who had felt so isolated in 0:14:10.464 --> 0:14:13.184 my experience of blindness and even curious if I counted 0:14:13.184 --> 0:14:17.464 as blind, suddenly I was deeply immersed and included. 0:14:17.344 --> 0:14:18.304 And it felt really good. 0:14:18.744 --> 0:14:20.544 The thing I should say is that all of the 0:14:20.584 --> 0:14:23.344 training there, you're wearing sleep shades unless you have a 0:14:23.384 --> 0:14:25.304 no from your doctor that says you have no light perception, 0:14:25.344 --> 0:14:27.464 which is really only like fifteen percent of blind people 0:14:27.504 --> 0:14:28.624 have no light perception at all. 0:14:29.264 --> 0:14:32.464 Everybody just being like one of those masks that you get, like. 0:14:32.824 --> 0:14:35.384 I always associate them with like fancy people on airplanes 0:14:35.544 --> 0:14:36.384 or a sleep mask. 0:14:36.904 --> 0:14:38.704 So you put these on the whole time you're. 0:14:38.544 --> 0:14:42.544 There to eight to four pm Monday through Friday. You 0:14:42.584 --> 0:14:45.424 are occluded and you get in trouble if you take 0:14:45.464 --> 0:14:48.184 them off, although everybody's blind, so how are they really 0:14:48.184 --> 0:14:49.104 going to know you took it off? 0:14:49.144 --> 0:14:52.784 But yeah, So what's a typical day of blindness training? 0:14:52.944 --> 0:14:56.704 Like, so typical day at the Colorado Center is you 0:14:56.704 --> 0:14:59.224 wake up at the apartments and everybody gathers at the 0:14:59.224 --> 0:15:01.584 bus stop and it's wild because like it's just a 0:15:01.584 --> 0:15:04.224 regular city bus, but like there's that one stop that 0:15:04.224 --> 0:15:07.224 every morning at seven forty one, like two dozen blind 0:15:07.264 --> 0:15:08.944 people just like storm it and it's just like this 0:15:09.104 --> 0:15:12.664 fun like blind bus, you know, and then everybody gets 0:15:12.664 --> 0:15:15.344 off at the Littleton station and then it's like school. 0:15:15.424 --> 0:15:16.984 You know, it's like college a little bit where there's 0:15:17.024 --> 0:15:19.424 like blocks of classes and you might have like braille 0:15:19.424 --> 0:15:21.984 and home management in the morning and then long travel 0:15:22.144 --> 0:15:22.824 in the afternoon. 0:15:23.184 --> 0:15:25.944 Is it like college or summer camp? Like do people 0:15:26.024 --> 0:15:28.304 make friends or people hooking up? What's it like? 0:15:29.344 --> 0:15:33.864 It is a little bit of a Hogwarts for blind people, 0:15:33.864 --> 0:15:35.824 I would say, And there you know, they've got roommates 0:15:35.824 --> 0:15:38.304 and that the weekends people are grilling and drinking and 0:15:38.344 --> 0:15:39.344 it's a whole scene. 0:15:39.544 --> 0:15:43.904 Do you think anyone was hitting on you? 0:15:43.984 --> 0:15:44.984 No, I don't think so. 0:15:45.144 --> 0:15:46.984 I mean I think people knew that I was married, 0:15:47.144 --> 0:15:49.584 although that hasn't stopped plenty of folks there from hooking up, 0:15:49.584 --> 0:15:51.984 because you do, like they leave their sighted spouses behind 0:15:51.984 --> 0:15:54.184 at home and then they're there and that feeling I 0:15:54.464 --> 0:15:58.264 was describing of sort of being suddenly like among peers 0:15:58.664 --> 0:16:01.704 is really intoxicating. But I love my wife dearly. I 0:16:01.744 --> 0:16:04.384 was not any risk of making out with any blind people. 0:16:04.784 --> 0:16:07.144 Yeah, but I imagine if that happens at teachers conventions 0:16:07.144 --> 0:16:09.784 where it's just like, oh, you're a teacher too, totally 0:16:09.904 --> 0:16:13.344 imagine this is much more intense. So what do you 0:16:13.384 --> 0:16:15.664 have to do to finally graduate from this place? 0:16:16.104 --> 0:16:19.344 Yeah, So, like there's final tests in all of the subjects. 0:16:19.384 --> 0:16:21.024 So like the cooking final test is you have to 0:16:21.024 --> 0:16:23.224 cook a meal for the entire center, which is like 0:16:23.264 --> 0:16:26.504 sixty people, and you do all the shopping undersleep shades. 0:16:26.544 --> 0:16:28.224 So cited people your age can't do that. 0:16:29.904 --> 0:16:32.104 I mean if they had nine months to work their 0:16:32.144 --> 0:16:34.264 way up to it, they could. What'd you make a 0:16:34.384 --> 0:16:37.384 kale salad and a red lentil soup? And I made 0:16:37.384 --> 0:16:39.864 it for I think like six people in my apartment. 0:16:40.184 --> 0:16:41.544 And then there's like, you know, in the tech class, 0:16:41.584 --> 0:16:45.264 you have to like format Microsoft word documents properly. But 0:16:45.304 --> 0:16:49.624 then the big famous thing that everybody talks about, and 0:16:49.664 --> 0:16:55.064 it's mind boggling even to blind people, is they drive 0:16:55.104 --> 0:16:59.304 you around under sleep shades in circles around Denver. You 0:16:59.344 --> 0:17:01.104 have no idea where you are, you know, so some 0:17:01.144 --> 0:17:03.464 people who are super advanced, they'll drop them off like 0:17:03.704 --> 0:17:05.864 three cities over on the top of a parking garage, 0:17:05.864 --> 0:17:09.584 which is a very confusing place for a blind. Parking 0:17:09.624 --> 0:17:10.624 lots in general. 0:17:10.344 --> 0:17:12.864 If you're cited, I can never find my car. It's 0:17:12.984 --> 0:17:15.464 parking lots are mazes. They're hard. 0:17:15.544 --> 0:17:16.984 Yeah, it's nuts. 0:17:17.144 --> 0:17:19.864 But regardless, everybody to graduate has to do some version 0:17:19.904 --> 0:17:22.224 of this test, which is called the independent drop. They 0:17:22.304 --> 0:17:24.704 let you off and then they say, okay, find your 0:17:24.704 --> 0:17:25.184 way back. 0:17:25.304 --> 0:17:26.304 Okay, So what are the rules? 0:17:26.504 --> 0:17:30.424 Rules are no smartphone, You can only ask one person 0:17:30.584 --> 0:17:31.224 one question. 0:17:31.624 --> 0:17:34.264 You can only you can ask one person one question. 0:17:34.464 --> 0:17:38.024 That's crazy. I don't think you take most people without 0:17:38.024 --> 0:17:39.704 his cell phone and drop them somewhere and hope they 0:17:39.704 --> 0:17:42.744 would get back with all the sight in the world. Yeah, 0:17:42.984 --> 0:17:45.944 had you heard like horror stories about the drop that 0:17:46.024 --> 0:17:46.504 scared you? 0:17:46.824 --> 0:17:47.464 Yeah, for sure. 0:17:47.584 --> 0:17:50.344 I heard an account by a blind historian named Zachary 0:17:50.384 --> 0:17:53.064 Shore who talked about the first time he did it. 0:17:53.184 --> 0:17:55.984 And this is a good strategy I've found, but a 0:17:56.024 --> 0:17:58.624 can backfire, as he discovered where he just sort of 0:17:59.504 --> 0:18:01.784 heard a busy street and at a certain point of 0:18:01.784 --> 0:18:03.504 your loss, like kind of picking a direction of just 0:18:03.504 --> 0:18:05.184 going with it sort of makes sense, and you're like, 0:18:05.264 --> 0:18:08.104 I'm going to find something that will be helpful, and 0:18:08.144 --> 0:18:09.904 so he just sort of upburnly did that for a 0:18:09.904 --> 0:18:12.544 really long time, and then a car pulled over next 0:18:12.544 --> 0:18:13.824 to himhich're going to have to be a cop car 0:18:13.824 --> 0:18:15.784 and they said, my friend, you're about to walk onto 0:18:15.784 --> 0:18:18.584 the highway, and he jumped in the cop car and 0:18:18.584 --> 0:18:20.424 they took him back to the center, you know, to 0:18:20.424 --> 0:18:22.744 give you a sense of the intensity of these of 0:18:22.784 --> 0:18:23.704 these training centers. 0:18:24.184 --> 0:18:24.344 You know. 0:18:24.344 --> 0:18:26.024 When he got back, the director was like, you failed 0:18:26.024 --> 0:18:27.584 this time. We're going to make you do it again. 0:18:27.744 --> 0:18:29.984 We're going to give you even harder drop next time, 0:18:29.984 --> 0:18:31.424 and then next time you're going to do it, and 0:18:31.464 --> 0:18:33.224 then lo and behold, next time he did it. 0:18:34.584 --> 0:18:37.184 When we come back, Andrew will be dropped off in 0:18:37.264 --> 0:18:41.664