1 00:00:03,080 --> 00:00:05,960 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind from how Stuff 2 00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:14,520 Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey, welcome to Stuffs to Blow your Mind. 3 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:17,800 Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Julie Todd Douglas. Oh. Yes, 4 00:00:18,079 --> 00:00:22,040 Speaker 1: because we're talking about autopomy today. Um as an entreat 5 00:00:22,079 --> 00:00:24,840 Speaker 1: of this and really my sort of retreated the topic 6 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:28,040 Speaker 1: was to think about the story of Beowulf and Crimple. 7 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:30,680 Speaker 1: Do you remember this right? Do? Yep? This is ah, 8 00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:34,960 Speaker 1: of course, from from Beowulf manuscript that has been passed 9 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:38,639 Speaker 1: down to us from Anglo Saxon poet from eight century 10 00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:41,360 Speaker 1: or early eleventh century. We don't know who wrote it, 11 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:45,640 Speaker 1: written by anonymous England's oldest work of epic literature. That. Yeah, 12 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:47,879 Speaker 1: if you've ever taken any kind of a course on 13 00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:52,080 Speaker 1: Western literature, anything about that the English language, then you've 14 00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:54,800 Speaker 1: probably come across Baowulf. And if you haven't, then you've 15 00:00:54,840 --> 00:00:59,480 Speaker 1: probably seen any number of film adaptations ranging from well, 16 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:01,760 Speaker 1: I guess most him are pretty ridiculous because it's kind 17 00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:04,600 Speaker 1: of a ridiculous story. Like the basics here, it is 18 00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:07,600 Speaker 1: that you have you have this Danish king roth Car. 19 00:01:07,959 --> 00:01:09,959 Speaker 1: He has this hall where him and his buddies like 20 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:11,600 Speaker 1: to hang out to drink. They have to like to 21 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:13,920 Speaker 1: have a good time. But there's a monster that lives 22 00:01:13,959 --> 00:01:16,280 Speaker 1: in the vicinity that does not like to listen to 23 00:01:16,319 --> 00:01:19,840 Speaker 1: all of this crap, which is understandable. Yes, Grendel is 24 00:01:19,880 --> 00:01:23,000 Speaker 1: the monster, and so Grendel comes and generally tears a 25 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:25,880 Speaker 1: bunch of people apart and then disappears into the night, 26 00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:28,360 Speaker 1: back to the moors. And uh. And then the next 27 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:30,680 Speaker 1: morning the king is very upset about this, so finally 28 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:32,840 Speaker 1: they bring in an expert. They bring in a monster's 29 00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:35,920 Speaker 1: flayer in the form of the hero Beowulf. Beowulf is 30 00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:39,920 Speaker 1: an outsider, He's Scandinavian. He's coming in and he waits up. 31 00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:44,039 Speaker 1: The monster comes. Grendel comes and starts to attack. Beowulf 32 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:47,320 Speaker 1: wrestles with him, and in the in bo Wolf's pretty fearsome, 33 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:49,680 Speaker 1: and then he rips the arm off, and then Grendel 34 00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:54,880 Speaker 1: wales runs home and presumably dies. And I always, I 35 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:57,200 Speaker 1: always love the monster, so I was always disappointed by this. 36 00:01:57,240 --> 00:01:58,960 Speaker 1: As a kid, I'm like, oh, come on, Grendel, like 37 00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:01,640 Speaker 1: I really wanted more out of you in this chump 38 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:04,200 Speaker 1: just tears your arm off. I never liked Baowulf. I 39 00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:06,440 Speaker 1: don't think he's a. He's a he's a likable character. 40 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:10,000 Speaker 1: I was associated more with Grendel, so I recently was thinking, 41 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:13,760 Speaker 1: what if what if this was not a situation of 42 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:17,920 Speaker 1: my my hero grendel Um being bested, Like what if 43 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:22,639 Speaker 1: his anatomy, what if his evolved responses to a threat? 44 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:25,720 Speaker 1: What if they best at Beowulf? Of course, talking about 45 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:27,720 Speaker 1: automy here where most most of us see this at 46 00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:30,760 Speaker 1: a very early age. When you catch a lizard, skink 47 00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:34,080 Speaker 1: or something in your hand and what happens. The tail 48 00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:38,480 Speaker 1: comes off, and children just fall apart in delight because 49 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:43,280 Speaker 1: they're like, what, let's do it again? What I felt bad? 50 00:02:43,320 --> 00:02:45,360 Speaker 1: I always felt bad, for sure, That's what I meant. 51 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:48,680 Speaker 1: That's what I meant. Don't Let's not do that again, 52 00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:51,440 Speaker 1: is what the kids say. And then they go home 53 00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:54,480 Speaker 1: and they make their beds. Autotomy is, of course, the 54 00:02:54,639 --> 00:02:57,720 Speaker 1: self amputation of a body part or tissue as a 55 00:02:57,760 --> 00:03:00,640 Speaker 1: means of self defense. There's no and there's no chewing 56 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:03,680 Speaker 1: involved here, there's no sign. Uh. It's more like an 57 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:08,040 Speaker 1: injection or or better yet, a shedding, and and we're 58 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:11,560 Speaker 1: talking about tail autonomy. Uh. In the case of these lizards, 59 00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:15,160 Speaker 1: which again is probably the example that is most most 60 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:18,480 Speaker 1: readily available to most people's brains, because because they drop 61 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:21,280 Speaker 1: them pretty easily, we'll get more into the lizards in 62 00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:24,480 Speaker 1: the tail dropping because it is very fascinating territory. I 63 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:27,040 Speaker 1: just want to mention that I love that you have 64 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:32,160 Speaker 1: this Grendel revenge tail that you've recast it as autotomy, 65 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:34,639 Speaker 1: and uh, I'm starting to think about Grendel is the 66 00:03:34,680 --> 00:03:39,840 Speaker 1: Grinch of the village. Yeah right, that's that horrible noise 67 00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:41,840 Speaker 1: coming from the village below, And I would love to 68 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:46,080 Speaker 1: see a Grinch tail with autotomy in it now. Yeah. Well, 69 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:47,960 Speaker 1: you know, imagine if the Grinch story had been the 70 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:49,880 Speaker 1: Grinch going down the who Ville and then the Who's 71 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:52,560 Speaker 1: beat him up and ripped his arm off. I would 72 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:54,360 Speaker 1: side with the Grinch every time. It's like he just 73 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:56,640 Speaker 1: wanted some piece of quiet, and you guys had to 74 00:03:56,640 --> 00:04:00,520 Speaker 1: be jerks about it, and you're roast beast and you're 75 00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 1: singing it's just nutty. Um. So yeah. The the regenerative 76 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:10,000 Speaker 1: powers here of some species was first discovered in seventeen 77 00:04:10,040 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 1: forty when Abraham Trembling discovered that a polyp could regenerate 78 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:17,000 Speaker 1: its tentacle crowned head if it was amputated, and he 79 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:20,120 Speaker 1: called it hydra after of course the head renewing monster 80 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:22,760 Speaker 1: from Greek mythology. You cut off one head and to 81 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:24,920 Speaker 1: grow in its place. And of course that's the other 82 00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:28,560 Speaker 1: fascinating thing about autotomy is that when the lizards has 83 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:31,000 Speaker 1: its tail, a new tail grows back. And in my 84 00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:34,120 Speaker 1: version of the Grendel story that's in my head alone, um, 85 00:04:34,320 --> 00:04:37,920 Speaker 1: his arm would eventually grow back. It would not quite 86 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:41,479 Speaker 1: the same we'll get we'll get into that, but yet 87 00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 1: it would grow back. We see starfish doing this. By 88 00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:47,000 Speaker 1: the way, some flat warrens can rebuild their entire bodies 89 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:50,159 Speaker 1: from a single cell, which is fascinating. And I wanted 90 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:55,440 Speaker 1: to mention gecks that dropped their tails. Um. They found 91 00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:59,000 Speaker 1: that it shows the tail actually shows a complex pattern 92 00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:02,159 Speaker 1: of repeating move mints to distract the attacker. So we're 93 00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:06,839 Speaker 1: talking for up to fifty seconds dramatic flips or lunges 94 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:11,599 Speaker 1: by this tailty seconds fifty seconds, and the gecko tail 95 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:14,800 Speaker 1: that has been self amputated makes four to eight rhythmic 96 00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:18,640 Speaker 1: moves per second with one of these complex movements like flipping. 97 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:22,880 Speaker 1: Because the classic scenario here outside of children picking them up, 98 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:25,560 Speaker 1: is that the lizard is threatened by a predator, say 99 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:28,600 Speaker 1: a house cat or a snake or something, and it 100 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 1: jettison's the tail. Tail just falls off and this and 101 00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:35,440 Speaker 1: the and the the lizard makes a run for it. 102 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:37,200 Speaker 1: But you know, you don't only just want to leave 103 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:40,000 Speaker 1: the gift of the tail. You also wanted to twitch. 104 00:05:40,040 --> 00:05:42,640 Speaker 1: You want it to move around as a distraction, because again, 105 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:45,560 Speaker 1: anything you can do to survive, anything that this mechanism 106 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:48,280 Speaker 1: can do to push the game in favor of the 107 00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:50,520 Speaker 1: lizard of the prey. Yeah, it's kind of the MacGuffin 108 00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:52,159 Speaker 1: of the plot here. So you just leave this tail. 109 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:53,360 Speaker 1: You don't want it to look dead. You want it 110 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:55,080 Speaker 1: to look alive, and you want it to look like it's, 111 00:05:55,200 --> 00:05:58,320 Speaker 1: you know, something that the cat or the child in 112 00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:01,880 Speaker 1: this case I suppose still wants to play with. And 113 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:04,880 Speaker 1: that's why I think it's so interesting about the fact 114 00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:07,760 Speaker 1: that they are these central pattern generators in the tail 115 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:12,120 Speaker 1: itself after it has ejected itself from the lizard that 116 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:15,440 Speaker 1: allow it to to sort of regenerate itself and in 117 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:18,680 Speaker 1: some cases to the coloration of the tail is different, 118 00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:21,839 Speaker 1: like Skilton. Skink is a great example because it's tails 119 00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:25,679 Speaker 1: also bright blue, so if it needs to jettison this tail. Bam, 120 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:27,440 Speaker 1: it's it's not only is it is it twitching and 121 00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:29,640 Speaker 1: hopping all over the place for for for a little bit. 122 00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:32,960 Speaker 1: It's also a bright color. It's a nice like look 123 00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:36,000 Speaker 1: here not here moves. All right, Hey, well we're gonna 124 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:40,000 Speaker 1: take a quick break and we come back more on autotomy, 125 00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:42,679 Speaker 1: More on the lizards dropping their tail, and another reason 126 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:46,039 Speaker 1: that lizards and and other organisms will get into will 127 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:47,760 Speaker 1: drop a limb or a tail or some of the 128 00:06:47,839 --> 00:06:50,120 Speaker 1: part of their body and make a break for it. 129 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:03,000 Speaker 1: All right, we're back out. Another reason that it appears 130 00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:06,000 Speaker 1: that lizards, or at least some lizards do a little 131 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:09,040 Speaker 1: bit of the tail dropping a little. The autotomy comes 132 00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:13,560 Speaker 1: down to not a general population of predators, but a 133 00:07:13,560 --> 00:07:16,440 Speaker 1: single predator, because that's kind of been one of the 134 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:21,120 Speaker 1: the the existing theories about how this works with the 135 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:23,560 Speaker 1: tail dropping. So they've evolved it because they live in 136 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:26,160 Speaker 1: a situation where there are a lot of predators around. 137 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:29,000 Speaker 1: So therefore they have to have a pretty drastic means 138 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:32,440 Speaker 1: of getting away. And you'll see environments where the the 139 00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:35,280 Speaker 1: lizards have more predators to deal with. The predator population 140 00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:40,720 Speaker 1: is greater, and so therefore their propensity for autotomy is increased. Okay, 141 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:43,280 Speaker 1: so more roving children in cats, the more there are 142 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:46,679 Speaker 1: tail droppers, yeah, at the drop it at the drop 143 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:50,320 Speaker 1: of a hat, right, especially that hat is being wielded 144 00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:52,679 Speaker 1: by a toddler. Now we're looking at a two thousand 145 00:07:52,760 --> 00:07:55,040 Speaker 1: and nine study from the University of Michigan, and they 146 00:07:55,040 --> 00:07:58,520 Speaker 1: were looking at, uh, particularly some lizards on some offshore A, 147 00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:02,720 Speaker 1: G and C islands, and they found that the situation 148 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:04,640 Speaker 1: here with the autonomy is that the lizard is dealing 149 00:08:04,720 --> 00:08:08,560 Speaker 1: with one particular superprector in the form of venomous vipers. 150 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:11,280 Speaker 1: All Right, the vipers are just eating lizards left and right. 151 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:14,440 Speaker 1: This is the main concern for these for these creatures, 152 00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:17,200 Speaker 1: and they're they're finding that what happens is that if 153 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:20,640 Speaker 1: the viper bites the lizard on the tail, they jettison 154 00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:23,000 Speaker 1: the tail. It's like on an episode of Walking Dead, 155 00:08:23,320 --> 00:08:26,040 Speaker 1: if an individual's bit on the foot by a zombie, 156 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:27,640 Speaker 1: what do you do. You grab a hack saw and 157 00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:31,800 Speaker 1: you you saw off that limb to keep the zombie 158 00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:34,560 Speaker 1: illness from taking hold of the individual. Okay, So in 159 00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:37,120 Speaker 1: this case, they're just getting rid of the tail. So 160 00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:40,120 Speaker 1: the venom doesn't get into their bloodstream and spread throughout 161 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:42,400 Speaker 1: the rest of their bodies. Yeah, they gotta cut and run. 162 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:44,640 Speaker 1: They gotta cut their losses, and their losses in this 163 00:08:44,679 --> 00:08:47,920 Speaker 1: case are the tail. So the thing about this tail 164 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:52,040 Speaker 1: dropping is that it is an engineering marvel. You know, 165 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:55,320 Speaker 1: and you have always known about this right as a child, 166 00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:57,720 Speaker 1: you knew that that the lizards tail would drop off, 167 00:08:57,760 --> 00:09:00,280 Speaker 1: but you probably never occurred to you like, exactly how 168 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:03,120 Speaker 1: does this happen? And if you look at this closely, 169 00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:06,080 Speaker 1: it is jaw dropping. Yeah, because the basic story that 170 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:08,960 Speaker 1: probably a parent or teacher told you when you said, oh, 171 00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:10,760 Speaker 1: my goodness, that lizards tail came off, and they were like, oh, 172 00:09:10,760 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 1: it's all right, it does that as a self defense 173 00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:15,079 Speaker 1: to the measure, the tail will grow back and then 174 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:18,600 Speaker 1: it can drop that tail again if it's threatened. Okay, 175 00:09:18,679 --> 00:09:21,079 Speaker 1: that that's that's an acceptable story. But then when you 176 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:23,360 Speaker 1: start asking why how does that work? Like like in 177 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:25,920 Speaker 1: any human, in a even a monster like Grendel, like 178 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:29,200 Speaker 1: to imagine that happening, that like an arm coming off 179 00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:32,440 Speaker 1: and then not bleeding to death and then growing back 180 00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:35,880 Speaker 1: even a even a partial arm in its place, like 181 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:38,440 Speaker 1: that just seems crazy. That seems magical, right, How does 182 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:40,640 Speaker 1: that affect the organism And we'll get more into that, 183 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:43,520 Speaker 1: But in terms of the actual engineering of it, it it 184 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:47,280 Speaker 1: turns out that there are horizontal fracture planes and most lizards, 185 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:50,680 Speaker 1: not all, and lizard tales will actually detach on what 186 00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:53,640 Speaker 1: we could call it is like a biological dotted line. 187 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:58,480 Speaker 1: And Jan angled in colleagues from our university in Denmark. 188 00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:01,439 Speaker 1: They used advanced bio imaging techniques to discover that the 189 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:05,720 Speaker 1: tokay gecko shuts its tail along these preformed score lines 190 00:10:06,080 --> 00:10:08,599 Speaker 1: in specific regions of the tail, and then this is 191 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:11,800 Speaker 1: all held together by adhesive forces at these lines, and 192 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:15,840 Speaker 1: the process of separation is independent of protein cleaving enzymes. 193 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:18,560 Speaker 1: There's a lot going on here, and there's micro structures 194 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:22,840 Speaker 1: at the ends of muscle fibers that are probably involved 195 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:26,320 Speaker 1: in the release of the tail. But what's even cooler 196 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:30,080 Speaker 1: is that that the lizard actually assists in this um 197 00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:34,120 Speaker 1: cleaving of the tail by contracting muscles around the fracture planes. 198 00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:36,600 Speaker 1: And we know this because we've had experiments where we've 199 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:39,439 Speaker 1: put the lizards under and we found that it's harder 200 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:42,720 Speaker 1: to get the tail off of an unconscious lizard. Yeah, right, 201 00:10:42,760 --> 00:10:46,200 Speaker 1: meaning that obviously when they're conscious, they are they're aiding 202 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:50,640 Speaker 1: this effort. So it's still you know, there's still score lines. 203 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:54,520 Speaker 1: The tail is still detachable, but they have to actually 204 00:10:54,520 --> 00:10:57,240 Speaker 1: have some sort of conscious wheel, some sort of reaction 205 00:10:57,320 --> 00:10:59,600 Speaker 1: to actually push it off and the way that it 206 00:10:59,679 --> 00:11:01,760 Speaker 1: is pushed off and in this sort of fracture line, 207 00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:05,040 Speaker 1: these prescord lines. It makes uh, it makes the blood 208 00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:09,280 Speaker 1: loss minimal and actually helps in terms of the healing process. 209 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:13,000 Speaker 1: And there is a book called Engineered Biomimicry. In that 210 00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:15,920 Speaker 1: book they're actually saying that the principles of autotomy could 211 00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:19,400 Speaker 1: be used in a bunch of places. Um, they were 212 00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:23,240 Speaker 1: talking about fire protection and buildings, flow control for sewer systems, 213 00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:26,200 Speaker 1: and disassembly of industrial products. So if you have a 214 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:28,640 Speaker 1: car that you need to disassemble or a washing machine, 215 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:31,800 Speaker 1: you would have fracture points for disassembly. And it's really 216 00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:34,160 Speaker 1: sort of brilliant when you think about it in manufacturing. 217 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:36,080 Speaker 1: So you can think of it in terms of like 218 00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:38,440 Speaker 1: what happens if the name to the individual like loses 219 00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:40,160 Speaker 1: a limb out in the wild, Like what are some 220 00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:42,120 Speaker 1: of the first aid things you're supposed to do, Like 221 00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:44,000 Speaker 1: you want to you want to close the wound, you 222 00:11:44,040 --> 00:11:46,520 Speaker 1: want to apply a tourniquet. I would say, I rip 223 00:11:46,559 --> 00:11:48,800 Speaker 1: off a piece of my shirt exactly, right, and so 224 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:50,760 Speaker 1: then I'm like, I'm gonna have like a half shirt 225 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:52,760 Speaker 1: on at this point, and I've got like a six pack, 226 00:11:53,480 --> 00:11:56,520 Speaker 1: and I'm rambo exactly and then I used that as 227 00:11:56,559 --> 00:12:00,439 Speaker 1: a tourniquet. Yeah, So similar things happen the ring of 228 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:04,360 Speaker 1: muscles around the score lines. They essentially tie off local 229 00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:09,040 Speaker 1: blood vessels to prevent bleeding. And immediately after the autonomy occurs, 230 00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:11,600 Speaker 1: the skin contracts around the edge of the tail step. 231 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:14,200 Speaker 1: So it's like applying a tourniquet in the bandage. Yeah, 232 00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:16,800 Speaker 1: I mean, very cool stuff. And again, this is engineering 233 00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:19,720 Speaker 1: at work here, and that is why some people are 234 00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:23,760 Speaker 1: very interested in in in bio mimicking it. Yes, now 235 00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:27,640 Speaker 1: there's a cost, of course, of course, losing a limb 236 00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:30,320 Speaker 1: is just no small thing, right, because they're going to 237 00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:34,040 Speaker 1: grow the tail back or a tail back, but it's 238 00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:36,960 Speaker 1: not gonna be there immediately. So you have this wonderful 239 00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:39,600 Speaker 1: trick to have ad a predator, but you can only 240 00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:41,839 Speaker 1: do it a few times during the course of your 241 00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:44,720 Speaker 1: life because it's gonna take take quite a while for 242 00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:49,160 Speaker 1: it too to grow back. We're talking months or even longer. Well. 243 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:51,360 Speaker 1: And also think about the structure of your own body. 244 00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:53,320 Speaker 1: And imagine if you had a tail and you had 245 00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:55,240 Speaker 1: a lot of fat stored in it, if you lost it, 246 00:12:55,280 --> 00:12:58,480 Speaker 1: that would be a huge source that you had lost, right, 247 00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:02,120 Speaker 1: and a food source, of potential food source for your body. 248 00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:05,800 Speaker 1: And not only that, your locomotion would differ because all 249 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:08,480 Speaker 1: of a sudden, your weight is distributed differently, right. I mean, 250 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:10,520 Speaker 1: when a lizard runs, the tail is very much a 251 00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:12,960 Speaker 1: factor in its movements. So you take the tail away, 252 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:16,040 Speaker 1: you're gonna it's gonna it's gonna affect movement, no doubt. 253 00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:18,360 Speaker 1: And again to your point, you lose the fat stores 254 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:19,760 Speaker 1: in the tail, and then you have to so you're 255 00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:21,959 Speaker 1: losing the energy you had stored away, and then you've 256 00:13:21,960 --> 00:13:25,640 Speaker 1: got to use more energy to grow the tail back. Ah. Yeah, 257 00:13:25,640 --> 00:13:29,080 Speaker 1: and this is really interesting. Um. This is from the 258 00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:32,679 Speaker 1: Journal of Zoology. The title of this study, by the 259 00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:35,079 Speaker 1: way I love it, is to cut a long tail short. 260 00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:39,480 Speaker 1: A review of a lizard caudal autotommy studies carried out 261 00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:42,000 Speaker 1: over the last twenty years by Bateman and Fleming says 262 00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:45,080 Speaker 1: that a study of four populations of and metallicust we're 263 00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:48,520 Speaker 1: talking about the metallic skink lizard, demonstrated that the population 264 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:51,719 Speaker 1: with the greatest number of tail breaks was also smaller, 265 00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:55,000 Speaker 1: which could be an indirect reflection of the energetic burden 266 00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:58,520 Speaker 1: of repeated caudal autonomy a caudle meaning the tail falling 267 00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:02,280 Speaker 1: off and tail regeneration in this population. It ends up 268 00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:05,400 Speaker 1: having effect on their their reproductive abilities. It can affect 269 00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:09,920 Speaker 1: an individual's ability to socialize and or mate with other 270 00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:12,760 Speaker 1: lizards because yeah, you survive, but you no longer have 271 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:15,199 Speaker 1: a tail, at least for the time being. Yeah, I 272 00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:18,280 Speaker 1: think about poor Grendel going back to his layer, and 273 00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:23,080 Speaker 1: maybe there are other Grendel like uh ladies, maybe they're 274 00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:25,480 Speaker 1: not going to be so interested to invest their time 275 00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:27,400 Speaker 1: in Grendel because I don't know. First of all, he's 276 00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:30,560 Speaker 1: gonna be able to regenerate that limb, and he doesn't 277 00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:33,120 Speaker 1: have a lot of time also to spend with them. Well, 278 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:35,560 Speaker 1: that's why he ended up living with his mom. That's 279 00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:38,240 Speaker 1: how it happens always. But yeah, I mean, he's got 280 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:40,400 Speaker 1: to take that time in the energy to try to 281 00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:45,080 Speaker 1: heal himself. And we also see that in females um 282 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:47,440 Speaker 1: and female lizards who have lost their tails that they 283 00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:52,360 Speaker 1: actually produce um less in terms of their clutches of eggs. 284 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:56,040 Speaker 1: And presumably again this is because they're devoting more of 285 00:14:56,040 --> 00:14:59,080 Speaker 1: their energy to regenerating that tail. And also you see 286 00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:03,920 Speaker 1: reduction just in reproductive fitness in general. So, as we've said, 287 00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:06,360 Speaker 1: the tail grows back, but what grows back is not 288 00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:09,760 Speaker 1: going to be a perfect replication of what was lost. 289 00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:12,440 Speaker 1: It's more like it's not a full size spare. In 290 00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:14,960 Speaker 1: other words, it's kind of like that little donut tire 291 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:16,920 Speaker 1: that you keep in the back. You can you can 292 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:19,440 Speaker 1: put it on, Yes, now that you can actually drive 293 00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:21,360 Speaker 1: down the road, but you're not going to achieve the 294 00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 1: same speed you did before. The car is gonna look 295 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:25,920 Speaker 1: a little funny, and people are going to if you 296 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:27,880 Speaker 1: take it on the interstate, people are gonna like point 297 00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:29,760 Speaker 1: out their window at you and say, hey, why aren't 298 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:33,640 Speaker 1: you driving with that spare? Yeah, eventually it might wear down, right, 299 00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:37,600 Speaker 1: slow you down. So let's let's look at Grendel here 300 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:40,040 Speaker 1: in his lair, right, He's got the tourniquet on there, 301 00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:45,040 Speaker 1: he's trying to stem the blood flow. And um, you know, 302 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:49,800 Speaker 1: if Grendel had been a lizard, perhaps muscular rings would 303 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:52,240 Speaker 1: be helping to tie off really instead of that tourniquet. 304 00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:55,720 Speaker 1: But what happens immediately after autonomy is that the skin 305 00:15:55,840 --> 00:15:58,440 Speaker 1: contracts around the end of the tail stuff. So you 306 00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:01,480 Speaker 1: have cells from the outer most layer of skin closing 307 00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:04,840 Speaker 1: over the wound and you have new cells creating what 308 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:09,320 Speaker 1: is called a wound epidermis, and this sends chemical instructions 309 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:12,840 Speaker 1: to the other cells. And this is key. Mature cells 310 00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:16,200 Speaker 1: like muscle and connective tissue cells revert to an immature 311 00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:20,200 Speaker 1: mass called a blastema, and this is the thing that 312 00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:23,040 Speaker 1: helps to to actually create the regeneration of that limb 313 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:25,560 Speaker 1: that was lost. And we'll talk more about that blastoma 314 00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:27,760 Speaker 1: later when we talk about humans and the possibility of 315 00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:31,000 Speaker 1: regeneration of our own limbs. Um. But you know, you 316 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:34,160 Speaker 1: have different species with different growth rates, and then this 317 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:36,080 Speaker 1: is a slow thing happening, and as you say, you 318 00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:38,400 Speaker 1: don't always get the same sort of limb that you 319 00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:41,520 Speaker 1: have before. It's a little bit more like a spirit tire. Yeah, alright, 320 00:16:41,520 --> 00:16:43,360 Speaker 1: we're gonna take another quick break and when we come 321 00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:47,360 Speaker 1: back more on this fascinating topic more tails dropping and 322 00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:55,760 Speaker 1: in some case that you're all right, we're back. We're 323 00:16:55,760 --> 00:17:01,480 Speaker 1: talking about autotomy. We're talking about shedding, jettison, dropping that 324 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:03,800 Speaker 1: pail or other part of the body in order to 325 00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:06,600 Speaker 1: make a break for it. And it's the fascinating thing 326 00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:09,919 Speaker 1: about this is not just lizards and amphibians that experienced this. 327 00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:12,119 Speaker 1: We see it in a whole host of animals. It 328 00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:16,119 Speaker 1: incurs in both vertebrates and invertebrates, and it is a 329 00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:19,239 Speaker 1: measure that evolved separately in each. Right, this is kind 330 00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:23,159 Speaker 1: of amazing that this is a self defense system that evolved. 331 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:25,359 Speaker 1: And if you look at stone crabs, you will see 332 00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:28,680 Speaker 1: that their claws they can you know, self eject and 333 00:17:29,119 --> 00:17:32,160 Speaker 1: or weaving spiders. Now, we have talked about the orb 334 00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:35,199 Speaker 1: weaving spiders before. We were talking about some of the 335 00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:39,639 Speaker 1: things that they do doing during sexual reproduction. Sometimes, uh, 336 00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:44,760 Speaker 1: the mail or spider will be decapitated for various reasons 337 00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:47,200 Speaker 1: that I won't go into right now. But it also 338 00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:49,720 Speaker 1: turns out that they can drop a leg if stung 339 00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:52,560 Speaker 1: by wasps. So there's like a lot of dismemberment going on. Yeah, 340 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:54,239 Speaker 1: and again it's kind of like the whole zombie thing, 341 00:17:54,280 --> 00:17:56,840 Speaker 1: but by a zombie drop the leg stung by a 342 00:17:56,880 --> 00:17:59,560 Speaker 1: beer wasp drop the leg because especially if you're spider, 343 00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:01,359 Speaker 1: you've got you've got eight of those things, so you 344 00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:04,560 Speaker 1: know if you can lose one, sure exactly. Um. And 345 00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:09,199 Speaker 1: then you have something called Octo Patakias delatron squid or 346 00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:14,280 Speaker 1: o delatron. Yeah, it's nice, um. And this will actually 347 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:18,480 Speaker 1: deploy its limbs sometimes not only just to to scare 348 00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:21,639 Speaker 1: a predator or to get them off of the trail 349 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:25,600 Speaker 1: of the squid itself, but also to wreak havoc on others. 350 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:28,520 Speaker 1: So they're sort of like independently, they can eject one 351 00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:31,160 Speaker 1: of their limbs or many of them and they're just 352 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:34,640 Speaker 1: a freak. Yeah. Yeah, So that you know this limb 353 00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:37,879 Speaker 1: is coming at you and it appears like it's attacking you. 354 00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:41,199 Speaker 1: And actually there's some great footage of this where you 355 00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:43,920 Speaker 1: can see I think it's the boom Mic being attacked 356 00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:47,400 Speaker 1: by one of the limbs. You know, that would really 357 00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:49,159 Speaker 1: work in the human world. You know you're getting if 358 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:52,000 Speaker 1: you're getting hassled on the subway, just start throwing hands 359 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:57,680 Speaker 1: at them, this bloody stumped hands. Multiple. You're on Martha, 360 00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:01,600 Speaker 1: our train system here in Atlanta, and you have one 361 00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:05,760 Speaker 1: uh one part of your body that you can use 362 00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:08,840 Speaker 1: autonomy with what do you use? Well, I'm not going 363 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:10,720 Speaker 1: to drop the legs because I need this to run away. 364 00:19:11,359 --> 00:19:16,440 Speaker 1: I'm probably going to go with maybe maybe my left 365 00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:20,400 Speaker 1: forearm and hand, you know, just sort of can that way, 366 00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:22,159 Speaker 1: can sort of sling it off at him with a 367 00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:24,679 Speaker 1: punch on the end of it if need be. Wow, Okay, 368 00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:28,240 Speaker 1: I think that makes sense. Originally I was thinking that 369 00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:31,080 Speaker 1: I would just eject my nose into someone's eye. I 370 00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:34,120 Speaker 1: don't know that would buy me much time. Yeah, Plus 371 00:19:34,119 --> 00:19:35,639 Speaker 1: you'd have to have some other like you'd really have 372 00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:37,800 Speaker 1: to force that thing out. But I guess there's all 373 00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:41,040 Speaker 1: there's air back there, the air cavities, nasal cavities. You 374 00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:44,200 Speaker 1: could somehow some sort of propulsion system evolved there. Yeah, 375 00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:46,959 Speaker 1: and you've never seen anoplew in my nose before. It's 376 00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:51,200 Speaker 1: pretty impressive self defense sneeze. Yeah, that's why I try 377 00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:52,760 Speaker 1: to do it in the bathroom. Uh not in the 378 00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:56,080 Speaker 1: break room? All right? So what else though, when we 379 00:19:56,119 --> 00:19:59,560 Speaker 1: look out into the emmal world, what else could amuse us? Well? 380 00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:02,920 Speaker 1: Of course, the most amazing creature really for for from 381 00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:05,640 Speaker 1: our human perspective is of course when we can see 382 00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:08,480 Speaker 1: this in mammals because it's one thing for a lizard 383 00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:11,320 Speaker 1: to do it. It's one thing of course slugs do it. 384 00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:14,000 Speaker 1: If you listen to our episode about slugs and love, 385 00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:17,080 Speaker 1: and they're various reproductive measures, it should become no surprise 386 00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:20,160 Speaker 1: when you learn about a slug doing anything gross. They 387 00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:24,560 Speaker 1: they're the the the inventors of everything disgusting. Sing their 388 00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:27,880 Speaker 1: love darts, love darts, penises coming out of the sides 389 00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:30,240 Speaker 1: of their heads, you name it. So yeah, like the 390 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:33,160 Speaker 1: the idea that they also practice autotomy not a surprise, 391 00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:37,280 Speaker 1: but it is surprising when you start thinking about mammals 392 00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:39,000 Speaker 1: doing it because you're a little closer to the human 393 00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:41,280 Speaker 1: equation here, right, And we see this when we look 394 00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:43,760 Speaker 1: at a particular road and called the African spiny mouse. 395 00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:47,240 Speaker 1: That's right, because al right, you human, you Robert, If 396 00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:50,560 Speaker 1: you sustain a wounds your ear, what happens, well, then 397 00:20:50,560 --> 00:20:52,439 Speaker 1: my ear's gonna look funny. It's like, I'm gonna get 398 00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:54,400 Speaker 1: like I can bash in the ear enough times, I'm 399 00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:56,679 Speaker 1: gonna get a call flower ear. If I lose a 400 00:20:56,680 --> 00:20:58,320 Speaker 1: bit of it, I'm just gonna have a little less 401 00:20:58,359 --> 00:21:01,000 Speaker 1: ear going on up there. You're gonna a scar tissue, yes, 402 00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:03,359 Speaker 1: scar tissue is gonna build up. But if you are 403 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:07,800 Speaker 1: an African spiny mouse, it's an entirely different story here, Yeah, 404 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:09,560 Speaker 1: the crazy part here. According to a two thousand twelve 405 00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:12,400 Speaker 1: studies from the University of Florida, the African spiney mouse 406 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:15,800 Speaker 1: appears to regenerate ear tissue in a very similar way 407 00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:17,920 Speaker 1: to a salaman or when it regrows a limb that 408 00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:22,200 Speaker 1: has been lost to a predator. That means skin, hair, follicles, cartilage, 409 00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:26,080 Speaker 1: everything in the ears will grow back. It also regrows 410 00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:28,439 Speaker 1: a tissue on its main body when it's injured, but 411 00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:31,199 Speaker 1: not as completely as it does with the ears, so 412 00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:33,480 Speaker 1: it just heals quickly elsewhere in the body, but only 413 00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:39,120 Speaker 1: the ears truly regenerate. Now. Ashley W. Surfert Uh, the 414 00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:43,280 Speaker 1: post doc researcher in this study punched holes in the 415 00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:45,520 Speaker 1: ears of African spiney mice to figure this out. By 416 00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:48,719 Speaker 1: the way, and he became with a whole punch. Uh. 417 00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:51,840 Speaker 1: It doesn't say a whole. It doesn't say what the 418 00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:54,399 Speaker 1: instrument was, but I would like to imagine that was 419 00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:57,760 Speaker 1: the whole punch. But Cifert actually became interested in the 420 00:21:57,800 --> 00:21:59,719 Speaker 1: mouse when a colleague said that it appeared to have 421 00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:03,119 Speaker 1: or a waste skin that allowed it to escape a 422 00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:06,240 Speaker 1: predator's grasp. And that's once ip for said U. Let's 423 00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:08,560 Speaker 1: take a closer look at this and see what's going on. 424 00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:13,360 Speaker 1: Hair away skin. It's very like it's like an animal 425 00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:17,520 Speaker 1: designed by Clive Barker that exists, right right, um, and 426 00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:19,399 Speaker 1: the researchers actually believe that it could lead to a 427 00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:24,080 Speaker 1: new model system for skin wound healing and tissue regeneration 428 00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:27,160 Speaker 1: and humans. And that's the thing, right, And you see 429 00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:30,439 Speaker 1: this a lot. It's It's often what pops up at 430 00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:33,760 Speaker 1: the very end of any study into autotomy is that 431 00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:36,439 Speaker 1: the researcher will say, and hey, sometime in the future, 432 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:38,359 Speaker 1: this might help humans heal because it's a nice light. 433 00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:41,480 Speaker 1: It's a nice way to end your study into lizards 434 00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:44,240 Speaker 1: dropping their tails on some remote islands somewhere or in 435 00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:48,520 Speaker 1: the backwoods of Georgia. We yeah, and we love that stuff. 436 00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:52,680 Speaker 1: We love a little like naval gazing future gazing and uh. 437 00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:54,240 Speaker 1: And if you can spin that out of a out 438 00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:56,240 Speaker 1: of a study, I'm all for it. And it also 439 00:22:56,280 --> 00:22:59,200 Speaker 1: works great in the headline, right, lizards may hold the 440 00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:01,679 Speaker 1: key to regional ration in humans in the future, or 441 00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:05,000 Speaker 1: something to that effect. But right now, as humans, when 442 00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:07,480 Speaker 1: when something happens to us, we're just talking about scar 443 00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:11,320 Speaker 1: tissue and and that's pretty much that um. But getting 444 00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:15,359 Speaker 1: the healing process to the point of actually creating a 445 00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:19,720 Speaker 1: new limb would require that blastema that we were talking about, 446 00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:22,639 Speaker 1: that the muscles and the connected tissue cells. Reverting to 447 00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:26,560 Speaker 1: an immature maths that is key. And that's where researchers 448 00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:29,440 Speaker 1: are really looking into this and saying, you know, why 449 00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:34,000 Speaker 1: don't mammals like us have this regenerative power? Well, why 450 00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:35,840 Speaker 1: don't we have it? Though? The answer to that, of 451 00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:38,639 Speaker 1: course is simple, it's why the same the same answer 452 00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:40,119 Speaker 1: is why do we not have shells? Why do we 453 00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:43,040 Speaker 1: not have uh, you know, crazy clause ripic banks apart? 454 00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:46,440 Speaker 1: Because we have evolved as a species depended more upon 455 00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:49,560 Speaker 1: our brain power and ingenuity as opposed to any kind 456 00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:52,160 Speaker 1: of built in weapons or defense measures that we have. 457 00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:54,280 Speaker 1: Show we can point to our neo cortex and go, 458 00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:56,960 Speaker 1: you don't have that, do you? Yeah, Like, the closest 459 00:23:56,960 --> 00:23:58,600 Speaker 1: thing we have to this really as humans is the 460 00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:00,800 Speaker 1: clip on tie you and go grab me by my 461 00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:03,879 Speaker 1: neck tie and uh and and and brutalize me. No, 462 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:06,280 Speaker 1: because the tie comes right off, just like a lizards tay. 463 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:09,679 Speaker 1: Hair extensions. Yeah, hair extensions another example. Oh you think 464 00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:11,560 Speaker 1: you have me by the hair note, note comes right off. 465 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:14,359 Speaker 1: But what's standing in the way, what's standing in the 466 00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:18,040 Speaker 1: way of us adapting this for humans, because certainly researchers 467 00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:21,560 Speaker 1: are all already looking at the genetic basis for regeneration 468 00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:24,600 Speaker 1: in the in lizards and then and then inevitably in 469 00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:28,960 Speaker 1: African spinding lines as well, looking at what enables these 470 00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:32,600 Speaker 1: limbs to regrow. And we know enough about gene tinkering 471 00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:35,120 Speaker 1: at this point. I mean, it's a fairly new ability, 472 00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:36,880 Speaker 1: but we know enough about it to to realize, hey, 473 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:39,280 Speaker 1: it's at some point we can start combining a little 474 00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:41,359 Speaker 1: A with all it a little from from column B 475 00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:45,720 Speaker 1: and potentially have some sort of human ability for regeneration. 476 00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:48,960 Speaker 1: What's standing in the way, besides the fact that you 477 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:51,360 Speaker 1: know it's scar tissue and boom and nothing else happens, 478 00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:54,919 Speaker 1: is really trying to understand how that process works. And 479 00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:56,919 Speaker 1: to do that, you've got to have the right sort 480 00:24:57,080 --> 00:25:00,600 Speaker 1: of species at your disposal. And in this case, the 481 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:03,480 Speaker 1: right sort of species is a salamander. And it takes 482 00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:07,040 Speaker 1: a long time for that tail to regenerate, So it's 483 00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:09,679 Speaker 1: not like you're collecting a massive data here. Yeah, it's 484 00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:13,320 Speaker 1: slow to grow, and salamanders are not good laboratory animals. Also, 485 00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:16,520 Speaker 1: salam energyenomes are really bloated. It turns out they have 486 00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:19,159 Speaker 1: ten times the amount of DNA as humans, and no 487 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:21,560 Speaker 1: one's ever really syncus them all the way. And we 488 00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:24,960 Speaker 1: only recently developed the means to hack salamander genes. And 489 00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:27,400 Speaker 1: we're talking recently. There's two thousand nine that we've really 490 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:31,440 Speaker 1: come into that. Uh and uh, you know another thing 491 00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:33,040 Speaker 1: here about this is that not a lot of people 492 00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:36,159 Speaker 1: are looking into it. It's not necessarily on everyone's radar 493 00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:38,920 Speaker 1: because we have a few other stars in the classroom 494 00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:42,960 Speaker 1: when it comes to uh, potential for enormous impact on 495 00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:48,240 Speaker 1: human health and repairing lost limbs, damaged organs, etcetera. Well, 496 00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:52,080 Speaker 1: you're actually seeing strides and stem cell regeneration and particularly 497 00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:56,400 Speaker 1: when you're talking about growing organs, So it would make 498 00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:59,359 Speaker 1: sense that you would look more toward that column for 499 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:04,639 Speaker 1: hope of limb regeneration or limb growing. Really. Yeah, and 500 00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:07,359 Speaker 1: also you have to consider the the the things we 501 00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:11,800 Speaker 1: don't know about regeneration and these particular items were brought 502 00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:13,680 Speaker 1: to our minds by ed Young, who wrote a BBC 503 00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:16,920 Speaker 1: article called will we ever regenerate Limbs? He pointed out 504 00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:20,760 Speaker 1: the limb won't regenerate if the nerves inside don't start growing. 505 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:23,600 Speaker 1: But what exactly do the nerves do? He he asked, 506 00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:26,199 Speaker 1: when the cells in the stump rewind their fates to 507 00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:29,520 Speaker 1: become that blastema, how far back does it go? And 508 00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:31,720 Speaker 1: then he pointed out how do the cells of the 509 00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:34,280 Speaker 1: re growing limb know where they are? And how do 510 00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:36,320 Speaker 1: they take the right shape or or how do they 511 00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:39,040 Speaker 1: make a working limb and not just a useless, deformed, 512 00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:41,600 Speaker 1: you know limb on the end of the art. Yeah, 513 00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:44,919 Speaker 1: that's pretty fascinating that so specifically it knows what to 514 00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:50,840 Speaker 1: recreate the cells. So. Ed Young also said that perhaps 515 00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:54,320 Speaker 1: the reason why humans don't have this um of our 516 00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:57,560 Speaker 1: sleeves is that the same checkpoints this is equipped from him, 517 00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:01,040 Speaker 1: the same checkpoints that stop ourselves from growing uncontrollably into 518 00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:05,120 Speaker 1: tumors might also stop a blastema from forming. That kind 519 00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:07,119 Speaker 1: of makes sense, right, You don't want any sort of 520 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:11,160 Speaker 1: abnormal growth happening. So perhaps and humans it's just the 521 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:14,880 Speaker 1: stop gap measure to making sure that uh, something isn't 522 00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:17,840 Speaker 1: becoming a malignant form. Yeah, And you don't want to 523 00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:21,240 Speaker 1: like enable humans to regenerate just so that they can, uh, 524 00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:22,880 Speaker 1: you know, every time I get the flu, I start 525 00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:25,840 Speaker 1: growing random arms out of my back. That would be 526 00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:29,200 Speaker 1: very helpful actually, but they'd be like little baby arms. 527 00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:32,640 Speaker 1: What am I gonna do with those? Um? Just hold 528 00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:37,520 Speaker 1: on the notes, game, right, certain to seem better? Right? 529 00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:42,800 Speaker 1: All right? So a career argument that Ciphert makes. Cypfer 530 00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:45,040 Speaker 1: of the African spiny Mass says that human diseases from 531 00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:47,920 Speaker 1: heart attacks to cirosis involves some sort of fibrosis where 532 00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:50,679 Speaker 1: the body deals with injuries by laying down connective tissue. 533 00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:54,760 Speaker 1: He says, fibrosis is the antithesis of regeneration. So if 534 00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:57,199 Speaker 1: we can understand how animals avoided it could tell us 535 00:27:57,200 --> 00:27:59,520 Speaker 1: how to stop scar tissue from building up on our 536 00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:02,160 Speaker 1: vital organs, which can be very problematic. So you're saying 537 00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:05,040 Speaker 1: that this is still something that we should study, and 538 00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:07,360 Speaker 1: we should still try to figure out how it happens 539 00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:10,080 Speaker 1: and why it happens. Seaford also pointed out that small 540 00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:13,280 Speaker 1: salamanders took four hundred days to grow back a leg 541 00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:16,320 Speaker 1: and and and that's less than four millimeters across, and 542 00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:19,000 Speaker 1: the largest ones needed more than a decade to finish 543 00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:22,080 Speaker 1: the job. So Seaford argued that even if a human 544 00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:24,679 Speaker 1: could grow a limb back with a with a with 545 00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:29,840 Speaker 1: a similar adaptive feature, it might take fifteen to twenty years. Now, 546 00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:33,920 Speaker 1: if one loses a limb, that might be an acceptable 547 00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:36,520 Speaker 1: wait time. That's the thing. I mean, it's not in 548 00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:39,560 Speaker 1: terms of like treatment on an illness. Fifteen to twenty years, 549 00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:43,480 Speaker 1: that's that's a long treatment time. But think of the 550 00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:45,920 Speaker 1: things that that you would you would go on that 551 00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:49,000 Speaker 1: waiting list for and someone was like, hey, you're uh, 552 00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:51,520 Speaker 1: you know your your your lungs is not doing that great. 553 00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:54,200 Speaker 1: Can grow your new one, uh, you know, nice fresh one, 554 00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:56,400 Speaker 1: but it will take fifteen to twenty years or your game. 555 00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:59,920 Speaker 1: So yes, I think, especially if the Aubrey de Gray 556 00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:03,320 Speaker 1: model of life expectancy actually plays out, So if we 557 00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:07,920 Speaker 1: actually do see a d four hundred year old people 558 00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:13,040 Speaker 1: who are needing um different body parts, fresh ones that 559 00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:15,440 Speaker 1: are that are operating in a way that actually gives 560 00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:18,520 Speaker 1: them a better quality of life experience than yeah, maybe 561 00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:20,360 Speaker 1: fifteen to twenty years, that sent a big deal. Yeah, 562 00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:23,320 Speaker 1: you says, say you lose an arm fifteen to twenty 563 00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:26,120 Speaker 1: years to regrow that arm. I think that makes sense. 564 00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:28,760 Speaker 1: That the question that arises is if we get to 565 00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:31,120 Speaker 1: the point where you can use some sort of gene 566 00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:33,920 Speaker 1: tinkering regeneration to regrow that arm of the course of 567 00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:36,440 Speaker 1: a couple of decades um is it will it? Will 568 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:38,560 Speaker 1: it be a faster option by that point just to 569 00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:42,000 Speaker 1: grow it in a lab to to to use stem cells, 570 00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:45,640 Speaker 1: use a tissue growing techniques to develop a new arm 571 00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:48,040 Speaker 1: and simply transplant that onto the body. Well, that's the 572 00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:50,640 Speaker 1: That's a great question because we already have the scaffolding 573 00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:54,960 Speaker 1: in place to essentially grow the structure. So yeah, it'll 574 00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:58,000 Speaker 1: be really fascinating to see in a decade from now 575 00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:01,320 Speaker 1: what the answers to these questions are. I mean, I 576 00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:03,120 Speaker 1: think I'm gonna go wisdom, so I'll have to say 577 00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:05,680 Speaker 1: regeneration yea, or we'll we see some of the combination 578 00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:08,160 Speaker 1: of the two, whereas like you grow me something in 579 00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:10,560 Speaker 1: the vat and then you're also doing some sort of 580 00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:13,840 Speaker 1: regeneration technique to make the like the stump meet the 581 00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:17,960 Speaker 1: new arm. Okay, I'm pondering it. That was a pondering 582 00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:21,200 Speaker 1: silence all right, think it over and and silence is key, 583 00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:26,400 Speaker 1: especially if you live out there in the wild, perhaps 584 00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:29,000 Speaker 1: near some sort of mysterious moore. Uh, you don't want 585 00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:30,760 Speaker 1: to party two out. You don't want to play this 586 00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:34,160 Speaker 1: podcast too loud, because there's a creature out there potentially 587 00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:37,160 Speaker 1: that may want to come and tear you limb for 588 00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:39,640 Speaker 1: limb and possibly leave one of his or her own 589 00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:43,800 Speaker 1: limbs if things get a little too rally, right, Yes, 590 00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:48,280 Speaker 1: the Grinch Grindle. I wonder if there's some connection there. 591 00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:49,720 Speaker 1: I've never thought of it. There's got to be some 592 00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:52,240 Speaker 1: sort of subconscious thing going on there. Uh. There was 593 00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:54,800 Speaker 1: an old episode of Tales from the Dark Side in 594 00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:58,320 Speaker 1: which a Grinch like creature comes and like slays the 595 00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:01,320 Speaker 1: mother and father who don't believe in Christmas. That's just 596 00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:04,320 Speaker 1: a long tradition there, because then you have, um, what 597 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:08,800 Speaker 1: is the anti Santa clause? Cramp Crampas is very much 598 00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:15,280 Speaker 1: like the Grinch. So yeah, Crampus, yes, not eating in 599 00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:18,120 Speaker 1: the first draft at least alright. Well, on that note, 600 00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:20,680 Speaker 1: let's call over the robot and uh do at least 601 00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:25,480 Speaker 1: one listener mail just to keep the robot happy. All right? 602 00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:27,920 Speaker 1: Here here comes one from our listener in response to 603 00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:30,880 Speaker 1: the Creepy Music episode the Uncanny Music episode The Science 604 00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:33,160 Speaker 1: of Uncanny Music. We heard a lot from you guys 605 00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:35,080 Speaker 1: on this one, and you know, sadly we're not going 606 00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:37,040 Speaker 1: able to read all the responses, but receive a lot 607 00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:40,600 Speaker 1: of great content. Uh. In this one, listener says, Hi, 608 00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:42,520 Speaker 1: my name is Richard Brunner, and I was just writing 609 00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:44,440 Speaker 1: in to say your episode about creepy music is timely, 610 00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:46,640 Speaker 1: and not just because Halloween is coming up. I just 611 00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:49,000 Speaker 1: finished working as an assistant on a film score for 612 00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:51,640 Speaker 1: a horror film last week out in Los Angeles, so 613 00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:54,480 Speaker 1: it's interesting to hear the podcast about horror music. It 614 00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:57,480 Speaker 1: definitely does add a lot to the scary nature of 615 00:31:57,520 --> 00:31:59,800 Speaker 1: horror films. I was working as a music production and 616 00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:03,240 Speaker 1: UH and on sheet music preparation for the recording session, 617 00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:04,680 Speaker 1: so I didn't have much to do with the actual 618 00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:06,800 Speaker 1: writing of the music on this film, but it was 619 00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:09,960 Speaker 1: certainly an interesting experience working with the composer and seeing 620 00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:12,760 Speaker 1: his music come together and how much the music and 621 00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:16,440 Speaker 1: sound effects enhance the horror of the horror film. Also, 622 00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:18,480 Speaker 1: I want to say that I wanted to say congratulations 623 00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:20,560 Speaker 1: on three years of the podcast, so far. I've been 624 00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:22,560 Speaker 1: listening to many of the episodes over the past year 625 00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:24,880 Speaker 1: or so, and I always enjoyed them. Hopefully there will 626 00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:28,880 Speaker 1: be many more years to come. Alright, very cool. It's 627 00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:31,640 Speaker 1: interesting to hear it from that firsthand account, watching the 628 00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:34,160 Speaker 1: process come together. Yeah, and and of course I always 629 00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:37,240 Speaker 1: love hearing from listeners and finding out what the neat 630 00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:41,400 Speaker 1: and interesting hobbies, passions and jobs end up, you know, 631 00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:45,800 Speaker 1: opposing the live So to his point, three years of podcasts, 632 00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:47,920 Speaker 1: if you want to find those, if you want to 633 00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:51,160 Speaker 1: experience all three years of Stuff to Blow Your Mind 634 00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:53,600 Speaker 1: and uh in the earlier podcast that it evolved out off, 635 00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:56,120 Speaker 1: then you can find them at stuff to Blow your 636 00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:58,680 Speaker 1: Mind dot com. That means episodes that you cannot find 637 00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:02,120 Speaker 1: on iTunes. Uh, you can only find them there at 638 00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:05,280 Speaker 1: our website, along with our blogs, our videos, everything else 639 00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:07,200 Speaker 1: anything Stuff to All Your Mind will wind up there 640 00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:09,400 Speaker 1: at some point or another. Also, check us out on 641 00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:11,720 Speaker 1: social media. We're on Facebook, We're on Twitter, we have 642 00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:14,360 Speaker 1: a pretty cool tumbler account. We're on Google Plus, We're 643 00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:16,800 Speaker 1: on YouTube Mind Stuff Show. That's another place to get 644 00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:18,960 Speaker 1: our videos. But you can still send us a good 645 00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:21,320 Speaker 1: old fashioned email and we will read that as well. 646 00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:23,600 Speaker 1: It's true, it will show up on our inbox, and 647 00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:26,360 Speaker 1: you can drop us a line at Below the Mind 648 00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:34,520 Speaker 1: at Discovery dot com for more on this and thousands 649 00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:42,400 Speaker 1: of other topics. Does it, How Stuff Works dot com