1 00:00:15,396 --> 00:00:23,516 Speaker 1: Pushkin. There's a place in our world where the known 2 00:00:23,636 --> 00:00:30,556 Speaker 1: things go, a corridor of the mind. I haven't been 3 00:00:30,596 --> 00:00:32,676 Speaker 1: down here in a while. This is good to be 4 00:00:32,756 --> 00:00:36,596 Speaker 1: back down here, where the walls are lined with shelves 5 00:00:36,596 --> 00:00:43,796 Speaker 1: cluttered with proof, especially books. Huh on the Origin of 6 00:00:43,836 --> 00:00:48,556 Speaker 1: Species by Charles Darwin. Oh, and right next to that 7 00:00:48,796 --> 00:00:53,596 Speaker 1: The Menace of Darwinism by William Jennings Bryan more of 8 00:00:53,596 --> 00:00:59,556 Speaker 1: a pamphlet. Really, here's a skeleton of a chimpanzee, its 9 00:00:59,596 --> 00:01:02,756 Speaker 1: bones held together by wire like a necklace of beads. 10 00:01:05,516 --> 00:01:09,356 Speaker 1: This place, this evidence room, stores the facts that matter, 11 00:01:09,556 --> 00:01:12,796 Speaker 1: and matters of fact. It's all that stands between a 12 00:01:12,836 --> 00:01:18,436 Speaker 1: reasonable doubt in the chaos of ignorance. It lies in 13 00:01:18,516 --> 00:01:21,396 Speaker 1: a time between now and then. The sign on the 14 00:01:21,436 --> 00:01:29,276 Speaker 1: door reads the last archive step across the threshold to 15 00:01:29,356 --> 00:01:33,956 Speaker 1: the little town of Dayton, Tennessee, population a hair under 16 00:01:33,996 --> 00:01:37,676 Speaker 1: two thousand in the year nineteen hundred and twenty five. 17 00:01:38,716 --> 00:01:49,876 Speaker 1: There's an old guy playing the banjo. All the folklan 18 00:01:50,036 --> 00:01:55,476 Speaker 1: Piana be bror, grateful house can be, and they know 19 00:01:55,836 --> 00:02:03,596 Speaker 1: the Bible be dif water if rod is the start 20 00:02:03,636 --> 00:02:06,396 Speaker 1: of what came to be known as the Monkey Trial. 21 00:02:08,356 --> 00:02:10,836 Speaker 1: It's one of the most famous trials in American history. 22 00:02:12,476 --> 00:02:16,196 Speaker 1: The defendant, John T. Scoops, a high school teacher, charged 23 00:02:16,196 --> 00:02:19,916 Speaker 1: with the crime a misdemeanor of teaching the theory of evolution. 24 00:02:20,956 --> 00:02:23,156 Speaker 1: A lot of people think the arguments in this trial 25 00:02:23,516 --> 00:02:28,076 Speaker 1: marked a triumph of reason over superstition. Some of those people, okay, 26 00:02:28,116 --> 00:02:30,876 Speaker 1: I confess, for a long time, I was one of them. 27 00:02:31,036 --> 00:02:33,276 Speaker 1: Some of those people only really knew about this trial 28 00:02:33,636 --> 00:02:36,396 Speaker 1: from a movie made about it in nineteen sixty called 29 00:02:36,716 --> 00:02:41,236 Speaker 1: Inherit the Wind. It starred Spencer Tracy as the heroic 30 00:02:41,276 --> 00:02:45,796 Speaker 1: lawyer for the defense fanaticism. An ignorance is forever busy 31 00:02:46,396 --> 00:02:52,476 Speaker 1: and needs feeding, And soon, your honor, we'll be marching 32 00:02:52,636 --> 00:02:59,036 Speaker 1: backward through the lawyer sages about sixteenth century, when bigots 33 00:02:59,036 --> 00:03:02,876 Speaker 1: burned a man who dat being enlightenment an intelligence to 34 00:03:02,956 --> 00:03:08,556 Speaker 1: the human mind. Inherit the Wind began as a play 35 00:03:08,796 --> 00:03:12,476 Speaker 1: written in nineteen fifty five. The playwrights weren't really interested 36 00:03:12,476 --> 00:03:15,076 Speaker 1: in the nineteen twenties. They were interested in the nineteen 37 00:03:15,076 --> 00:03:19,876 Speaker 1: fifties and the political persecution of their day. McCarthyism. Me, 38 00:03:20,116 --> 00:03:23,276 Speaker 1: I'm a historian, I'm interested in now the twenty twenties 39 00:03:23,556 --> 00:03:26,356 Speaker 1: and the dilemmas of our day. So when I look 40 00:03:26,396 --> 00:03:28,436 Speaker 1: at the nineteen twenties, it looks to me as if 41 00:03:28,436 --> 00:03:31,276 Speaker 1: what was on trial was skepticism itself and the role 42 00:03:31,316 --> 00:03:34,396 Speaker 1: of doubt and a democracy. We're going to do our 43 00:03:34,436 --> 00:03:37,476 Speaker 1: own re enactment. I don't know, call it disinherit the wind. 44 00:03:41,636 --> 00:03:44,156 Speaker 1: One thing before we get started that you really need 45 00:03:44,196 --> 00:03:48,316 Speaker 1: to know. The Scopes Trial, the Monkey trial. It was 46 00:03:48,316 --> 00:03:54,956 Speaker 1: a show trial. A platform had been built for movie 47 00:03:54,956 --> 00:03:59,596 Speaker 1: cameras and seeding for hundreds of spectators. Two hundred reporters 48 00:03:59,636 --> 00:04:02,796 Speaker 1: were there too. Telegraph wires had been laid across the 49 00:04:02,836 --> 00:04:10,556 Speaker 1: floor for speedy reporting. Hl Linklin, the themed newspaperman from 50 00:04:10,556 --> 00:04:13,596 Speaker 1: the Baltimore Sun, who was there too, writing with his 51 00:04:13,756 --> 00:04:18,836 Speaker 1: celebrated wit, the two parties are the farther marked poles 52 00:04:18,876 --> 00:04:22,316 Speaker 1: of difference and leaning out into space, and one of 53 00:04:22,316 --> 00:04:25,236 Speaker 1: them is right at all and the other is wrong Altogether. 54 00:04:27,236 --> 00:04:30,076 Speaker 1: Microphones and speakers had been installed so that all the 55 00:04:30,076 --> 00:04:34,876 Speaker 1: people assembled outside could hear the goings on. Also this trial, 56 00:04:35,236 --> 00:04:37,356 Speaker 1: not for nothing was it called the Trial of the century. 57 00:04:37,636 --> 00:04:40,636 Speaker 1: Who was the very first American trial ever broadcast live 58 00:04:40,636 --> 00:04:43,436 Speaker 1: on the radio. Who was a miracle of modern science. 59 00:04:44,116 --> 00:04:47,116 Speaker 1: We're like moon men here, one of the radio announcers said, 60 00:04:47,476 --> 00:04:51,676 Speaker 1: we're the radio guys from outer space. Back in nineteen 61 00:04:51,756 --> 00:04:55,236 Speaker 1: twenty five, the power of radio transmitters wasn't yet regulated, 62 00:04:55,436 --> 00:04:58,036 Speaker 1: and the station broadcasting the Scoop's trial had a signal 63 00:04:58,156 --> 00:05:01,316 Speaker 1: so strong it could be heard by half the country. 64 00:05:01,316 --> 00:05:05,676 Speaker 1: This is WGN Chicago, the radio broadcast of the Chicago 65 00:05:05,756 --> 00:05:18,636 Speaker 1: Tribune WGN, World's greatest newspaper. I'm Jill Lapour. Welcome to 66 00:05:18,676 --> 00:05:22,596 Speaker 1: the second season of The Last Archive, the World's Greatest 67 00:05:22,596 --> 00:05:26,556 Speaker 1: podcast w GP. Where the show about how we know 68 00:05:26,636 --> 00:05:29,236 Speaker 1: what we know and why it seems lately as if 69 00:05:29,276 --> 00:05:32,996 Speaker 1: we don't know anything at all, and geez, maybe we 70 00:05:33,076 --> 00:05:38,636 Speaker 1: never did. Last season was about truth and who killed it? Oh, 71 00:05:38,676 --> 00:05:42,316 Speaker 1: who done it? We lined up the usual suspects, Facebook, 72 00:05:42,396 --> 00:05:46,796 Speaker 1: Donald Trump, postmodernism. In the end, I argued that this 73 00:05:46,876 --> 00:05:50,196 Speaker 1: case was like murder on the Orient Express. Everyone really 74 00:05:50,236 --> 00:05:53,996 Speaker 1: had a hand in the killing. This season, we've got 75 00:05:53,996 --> 00:05:56,116 Speaker 1: a new case. I'm going to go back over the 76 00:05:56,156 --> 00:05:59,836 Speaker 1: same decades, the last hundred years and trace the instability 77 00:05:59,836 --> 00:06:03,476 Speaker 1: of knowledge. Not so much who killed truth, but what 78 00:06:03,756 --> 00:06:08,236 Speaker 1: fed doubt. This season is about a kind of questioning 79 00:06:08,396 --> 00:06:11,596 Speaker 1: that began with skepticism and ended up a century later 80 00:06:11,996 --> 00:06:16,596 Speaker 1: with people finding it hard to believe anything. How did 81 00:06:16,636 --> 00:06:20,796 Speaker 1: that happen? In this season of the last Archive, we 82 00:06:20,876 --> 00:06:25,516 Speaker 1: watch a shadow grow and grow, the long, dark shadow 83 00:06:26,436 --> 00:06:33,116 Speaker 1: of doubt, the until Dayton came a man with his 84 00:06:33,436 --> 00:06:37,956 Speaker 1: new ideas, old brand and heat that we came from 85 00:06:38,116 --> 00:06:44,756 Speaker 1: monkeys long ago. What if he king help me? Leading 86 00:06:45,156 --> 00:06:50,116 Speaker 1: with the gold found only grief? Harley would not let 87 00:06:50,116 --> 00:06:57,756 Speaker 1: their all really done go. Salesman and quacks and all 88 00:06:57,836 --> 00:07:00,556 Speaker 1: kinds of people who were just curious came from all 89 00:07:00,596 --> 00:07:03,516 Speaker 1: over the country to Dayton, setting up shop for the trial, 90 00:07:04,396 --> 00:07:08,956 Speaker 1: lining the streets. Some preached, some performed with trained monkeys. 91 00:07:09,716 --> 00:07:13,476 Speaker 1: The New York Times filed this report. Whatever the deep 92 00:07:13,556 --> 00:07:16,796 Speaker 1: significance of the trial, if it has any, there is 93 00:07:16,836 --> 00:07:19,236 Speaker 1: no doubt that it has attracted some of the world's 94 00:07:19,476 --> 00:07:24,356 Speaker 1: champion freaks. Three days before the trial, William Jennings Bryant, 95 00:07:24,396 --> 00:07:28,756 Speaker 1: attorney for the prosecution, arrived by train. A crowd of 96 00:07:28,796 --> 00:07:34,876 Speaker 1: thousands greeted him at the station. Waving to the throngs, 97 00:07:34,996 --> 00:07:38,516 Speaker 1: Brian doffed his hat a pith helmet to protect his 98 00:07:38,556 --> 00:07:40,996 Speaker 1: bald head from the sun. He looked as if he 99 00:07:40,996 --> 00:07:47,076 Speaker 1: were on safari. Clarence Darrow, attorney for the defense, arrived 100 00:07:47,156 --> 00:07:51,116 Speaker 1: two days later. John Scopes, the defendant, met Darrow at 101 00:07:51,116 --> 00:07:54,276 Speaker 1: the train station, but hardly anyone else was there except 102 00:07:54,316 --> 00:07:57,796 Speaker 1: a few reporters and photographers. Very little of this was 103 00:07:57,836 --> 00:08:01,116 Speaker 1: about Scopes, or even about the teaching of evolution, at 104 00:08:01,156 --> 00:08:04,316 Speaker 1: least in one high school classroom in Tennessee. The trial 105 00:08:04,636 --> 00:08:09,116 Speaker 1: was a test case engineered by the ACLU. States around 106 00:08:09,356 --> 00:08:12,516 Speaker 1: the country had been discouraging the teaching of evolution. The 107 00:08:12,596 --> 00:08:16,276 Speaker 1: Tennessee legislature had been the first to ban it. The 108 00:08:16,356 --> 00:08:20,156 Speaker 1: ACLU wanted to expose how that band violated freedom of speech. 109 00:08:20,516 --> 00:08:23,756 Speaker 1: Scopes himself was all but a bystander. He never took 110 00:08:23,796 --> 00:08:27,076 Speaker 1: the stand in our reenactment. I'll hardly have reason to 111 00:08:27,116 --> 00:08:30,516 Speaker 1: mention him again. The trial was set to open on 112 00:08:30,596 --> 00:08:36,116 Speaker 1: a Friday, nine am. Sharp farmers and overalls from the 113 00:08:36,196 --> 00:08:41,956 Speaker 1: hillside farms. Silent, gaunt men. They occupied every seat and 114 00:08:42,076 --> 00:08:44,556 Speaker 1: stood in the aisles and around the walls of the room. 115 00:08:46,396 --> 00:08:49,836 Speaker 1: By eight forty five, every seat in the courtroom was filled. 116 00:08:50,396 --> 00:08:53,876 Speaker 1: At home all over the country, Americans switched on their radios. 117 00:08:55,796 --> 00:08:58,556 Speaker 1: That's something to hold in your mind this season of doubt. 118 00:08:59,276 --> 00:09:01,956 Speaker 1: Learning about the world in our own houses instead of 119 00:09:02,036 --> 00:09:06,156 Speaker 1: going out into it to see things for ourselves. Elephant 120 00:09:06,196 --> 00:09:08,476 Speaker 1: in the room here. We made this season of the 121 00:09:08,556 --> 00:09:13,956 Speaker 1: Last Dark on lockdown during a pandemic year, stuck at 122 00:09:13,996 --> 00:09:16,356 Speaker 1: home for people who weren't health workers or teachers or 123 00:09:16,396 --> 00:09:19,476 Speaker 1: other essential workers. Most of what a lot of us 124 00:09:19,636 --> 00:09:22,356 Speaker 1: learned about the world this year we learned from inside 125 00:09:22,396 --> 00:09:27,596 Speaker 1: our homes, online on the internet. All this isolation and 126 00:09:27,716 --> 00:09:31,276 Speaker 1: remoteness got me really interested in the work of mediation, 127 00:09:31,836 --> 00:09:37,076 Speaker 1: a world mediated by technology. Mediation that's what media does, 128 00:09:37,116 --> 00:09:40,236 Speaker 1: That's what the word means. And learning about the world 129 00:09:40,276 --> 00:09:42,676 Speaker 1: that way remotely turned out to be a big part 130 00:09:42,716 --> 00:09:45,316 Speaker 1: of how I came to understand the history of doubt. 131 00:09:46,756 --> 00:09:48,996 Speaker 1: We know what it's like now to check Twitter on 132 00:09:49,036 --> 00:09:52,156 Speaker 1: your phone, to see the world so far away but 133 00:09:52,316 --> 00:09:54,756 Speaker 1: feel that it's so close. Who was it like in 134 00:09:54,836 --> 00:09:57,436 Speaker 1: nineteen twenty five to turn on the radio in your 135 00:09:57,516 --> 00:10:03,636 Speaker 1: kitchen and hear a trial beaming in from Dayton, Tennessee. 136 00:10:05,356 --> 00:10:08,116 Speaker 1: Gentleman and mister Attorney General, I am now calling for 137 00:10:08,196 --> 00:10:13,876 Speaker 1: trial the State at Tennessee versus John Thomas Scopes. Scopes 138 00:10:13,916 --> 00:10:17,196 Speaker 1: had been charged with violating a law that stipulated, well, 139 00:10:17,476 --> 00:10:20,236 Speaker 1: just listen to it. Be it enacted by the General 140 00:10:20,236 --> 00:10:22,676 Speaker 1: Assembly of the State of Tennessee that it shall be 141 00:10:22,756 --> 00:10:26,196 Speaker 1: unlawful for any teacher to teach any theory that denies 142 00:10:26,236 --> 00:10:28,956 Speaker 1: the story of the divine creation of man as taught 143 00:10:28,996 --> 00:10:31,836 Speaker 1: in the Bible, and to teach him stare that man 144 00:10:31,876 --> 00:10:37,996 Speaker 1: has descended from a lower order of animals. So hold on. 145 00:10:38,316 --> 00:10:41,756 Speaker 1: This is tricky. Under the terms of Tennessee law, the 146 00:10:41,836 --> 00:10:44,716 Speaker 1: prosecution didn't have to prove that Scopes had taught evolution. 147 00:10:45,156 --> 00:10:48,156 Speaker 1: Scopes never denied that he had. The prosecution had to 148 00:10:48,156 --> 00:10:52,236 Speaker 1: prove that the theory of evolution contradicts the Bible. Evolution 149 00:10:52,316 --> 00:10:54,636 Speaker 1: is not truth, Brian planned to say on behalf of 150 00:10:54,676 --> 00:10:57,836 Speaker 1: the prosecution. It is merely a hypothesis. It's millions of 151 00:10:57,876 --> 00:11:02,076 Speaker 1: guesses strung together. But the Bible Brian believed was true, 152 00:11:02,476 --> 00:11:06,756 Speaker 1: not just parables, literally true. Somehow this claim would have 153 00:11:06,796 --> 00:11:12,156 Speaker 1: to be evaluated by a jury. One way to think 154 00:11:12,196 --> 00:11:15,196 Speaker 1: about the modern era is that it dethroned God as 155 00:11:15,236 --> 00:11:18,836 Speaker 1: the arbiter of truth and erected a new God. Reason 156 00:11:19,876 --> 00:11:23,796 Speaker 1: the fact replaced the mystery that anyway is what the 157 00:11:23,796 --> 00:11:27,356 Speaker 1: scientific Revolution and the Enlightenment tried to do, but always 158 00:11:27,356 --> 00:11:31,516 Speaker 1: with a struggle, a struggle that never ended. Galileo said 159 00:11:31,516 --> 00:11:33,396 Speaker 1: the earth revolved around the Sun and not the other 160 00:11:33,396 --> 00:11:36,316 Speaker 1: way around, and the Catholic Church accused him of heresy, 161 00:11:36,676 --> 00:11:38,916 Speaker 1: who was tried and convicted and spent the rest of 162 00:11:38,956 --> 00:11:42,876 Speaker 1: his life under house arrest for doubting the truth of religion. 163 00:11:43,556 --> 00:11:45,716 Speaker 1: To a lot of people, the Scope's trial was a 164 00:11:45,796 --> 00:11:50,316 Speaker 1: kind of retrial of Galileo, except they thought, surely this 165 00:11:50,396 --> 00:11:53,716 Speaker 1: time the reasonable person would not be sentenced and enlightenment 166 00:11:53,796 --> 00:11:57,276 Speaker 1: would prevail. That's a lot of pressure to put on 167 00:11:57,316 --> 00:12:02,076 Speaker 1: a misdemeanor case in a little town in Tennessee. Names 168 00:12:02,076 --> 00:12:04,836 Speaker 1: were drawn from a hat. Both the prosecution and the 169 00:12:04,876 --> 00:12:07,556 Speaker 1: defense could object to any three jurors without cause, but 170 00:12:07,716 --> 00:12:12,676 Speaker 1: no more. When I listened to this part of the trial, 171 00:12:13,156 --> 00:12:18,036 Speaker 1: I imagine Americans at home listening, wondering to themselves, would 172 00:12:18,036 --> 00:12:20,236 Speaker 1: I be qualified to sit on that jury? Could I 173 00:12:20,396 --> 00:12:24,716 Speaker 1: decide this case fairly? Picture Americans who teach Sunday school 174 00:12:24,876 --> 00:12:27,236 Speaker 1: or said the prayers every night, or Americans who didn't 175 00:12:27,236 --> 00:12:30,796 Speaker 1: believe in any God, who are atheists or agnostics, whatever 176 00:12:30,876 --> 00:12:34,396 Speaker 1: anyone's views on religion. In a democracy, everyone's supposed to 177 00:12:34,436 --> 00:12:36,676 Speaker 1: be able to set all that aside to sit on 178 00:12:36,716 --> 00:12:39,036 Speaker 1: a jury, abide by the rules of evidence, an issue 179 00:12:39,076 --> 00:12:43,076 Speaker 1: a verdict, decide what's true and what's not true. But 180 00:12:43,156 --> 00:12:46,116 Speaker 1: that depends on the jury and Clarence Darrow, attorney for 181 00:12:46,196 --> 00:12:49,556 Speaker 1: the defense, happened to be an expert on jury selection. 182 00:12:51,116 --> 00:12:57,596 Speaker 1: The more a lawyer knows of life, human nature, psychology, 183 00:12:57,676 --> 00:13:01,356 Speaker 1: and the reactions of the human emotions, the better he 184 00:13:01,476 --> 00:13:04,316 Speaker 1: is equipped for the subtle selection of his so called 185 00:13:04,396 --> 00:13:10,596 Speaker 1: twelve men, good and true. Darrow a strategy for picking 186 00:13:10,636 --> 00:13:15,316 Speaker 1: the perfect jury. If a Presbyterian enters the jury box 187 00:13:15,396 --> 00:13:19,596 Speaker 1: and carefully rolls up his umbrella and calmly and critically 188 00:13:19,636 --> 00:13:24,676 Speaker 1: sits down, let him go, he is as called as 189 00:13:24,676 --> 00:13:28,756 Speaker 1: the grave. Darrow was the most famous trial lawyer in 190 00:13:28,796 --> 00:13:31,396 Speaker 1: the country from the big city of Chicago. Attorney for 191 00:13:31,436 --> 00:13:34,436 Speaker 1: the damned, he was called the hero to the poor, 192 00:13:34,436 --> 00:13:38,276 Speaker 1: the oppressed, the beleaguered, and the falsely accused. He'd played 193 00:13:38,276 --> 00:13:41,476 Speaker 1: a role in some two thousand trials. In more than 194 00:13:41,516 --> 00:13:45,316 Speaker 1: a third, he'd been paid nothing. As far as picking 195 00:13:45,316 --> 00:13:48,716 Speaker 1: a jury goes, the trick, Darrow always said was to 196 00:13:48,756 --> 00:13:51,476 Speaker 1: only seat a man so likely to identify with your 197 00:13:51,476 --> 00:13:56,596 Speaker 1: client that really he is trying himself. In Dayton, the 198 00:13:56,636 --> 00:13:58,756 Speaker 1: court brought in a jury pool of one hundred men, 199 00:13:59,196 --> 00:14:02,196 Speaker 1: white men. None of these men had much in common 200 00:14:02,236 --> 00:14:05,476 Speaker 1: with a high school biology teacher. They were mainly farmers. 201 00:14:05,836 --> 00:14:08,796 Speaker 1: Some couldn't read. The first man stood up to be 202 00:14:08,836 --> 00:14:12,836 Speaker 1: question hl Menkin, the slick city reporter from Baltimore, picked 203 00:14:12,916 --> 00:14:16,916 Speaker 1: up his pen and licked it with spit. Listen carefully 204 00:14:16,956 --> 00:14:19,396 Speaker 1: and you can hear the first volley in a culture 205 00:14:19,396 --> 00:14:23,396 Speaker 1: war that is still reverberating today. And it'll be no 206 00:14:23,476 --> 00:14:26,036 Speaker 1: them more possible in this Christian valley to get a jury. 207 00:14:26,076 --> 00:14:28,796 Speaker 1: I'm prejudiced to gain scopes, and we'll be possible in 208 00:14:28,836 --> 00:14:31,236 Speaker 1: wall Street to get a jury. I'm prejudiced against Bolshek. 209 00:14:33,356 --> 00:14:35,876 Speaker 1: Darrow did his best to pull together a fair jury. 210 00:14:36,356 --> 00:14:39,636 Speaker 1: By late afternoon, twelve men had been seated. They were sworn, 211 00:14:40,076 --> 00:14:46,276 Speaker 1: and then court adjourned until Monday morning. Overhead airplanes, little 212 00:14:46,316 --> 00:14:49,716 Speaker 1: prop planes flew north to deliver footage of the proceedings 213 00:14:49,716 --> 00:14:55,236 Speaker 1: to cinemas to be shown as newsreels over the weekend. Sunday, though, 214 00:14:55,436 --> 00:14:58,316 Speaker 1: was hardly a day of rest. The judge went to church. 215 00:14:58,516 --> 00:15:01,996 Speaker 1: He and his wife sat in the front pew incredibly 216 00:15:02,316 --> 00:15:06,596 Speaker 1: and do you and me scandalously. William Jennings Bryan, attorney 217 00:15:06,636 --> 00:15:11,156 Speaker 1: for the prosecution, delivered the sermon, and he preached about 218 00:15:11,156 --> 00:15:15,276 Speaker 1: the case. The attorneys for the defense charged that our 219 00:15:15,356 --> 00:15:21,356 Speaker 1: objection to expert testimony is an attempt to evade the issue. 220 00:15:24,676 --> 00:15:29,916 Speaker 1: William Jennings Bryan, Nebraska born a populist known as the 221 00:15:29,956 --> 00:15:33,556 Speaker 1: Great Commoner. He wasn't much of a lawyer, he hadn't 222 00:15:33,596 --> 00:15:37,156 Speaker 1: practiced law for more than thirty years at this point. Instead, 223 00:15:37,476 --> 00:15:40,636 Speaker 1: he joined the prosecution's team because he was a celebrity. 224 00:15:41,556 --> 00:15:45,156 Speaker 1: Bryan was a politician, a long time presidential contender, a 225 00:15:45,276 --> 00:15:50,156 Speaker 1: Democrat opposed to conservative Republican economic policy. He was also 226 00:15:50,476 --> 00:15:55,036 Speaker 1: a fire and brimstone lay preacher, known as mister Fundamentalist. 227 00:15:55,756 --> 00:15:58,876 Speaker 1: He'd led a national campaign against the teaching of evolution. 228 00:15:59,436 --> 00:16:03,116 Speaker 1: He once told a political cartoonist, you should represent me 229 00:16:03,356 --> 00:16:07,316 Speaker 1: as using a double barreled shotgun, fixing one barrel at 230 00:16:07,316 --> 00:16:10,196 Speaker 1: the elephant as he tries to enter the treasury, and 231 00:16:10,356 --> 00:16:15,076 Speaker 1: another at Darwinism the monkey as he tries to enter 232 00:16:15,196 --> 00:16:22,756 Speaker 1: the school room. Brian opposed to Republicanism and to Darwinism. 233 00:16:25,036 --> 00:16:30,596 Speaker 1: Monday morning, the Scopes trial resumed in that courtroom in Tennessee. 234 00:16:30,796 --> 00:16:34,196 Speaker 1: Just about everyone sided with Brian. They were pro bible 235 00:16:34,516 --> 00:16:38,836 Speaker 1: and anti evolution. The racic issues of the case indeed, 236 00:16:38,916 --> 00:16:41,996 Speaker 1: seemed to be a very little disgust at Dayton. What 237 00:16:42,156 --> 00:16:45,876 Speaker 1: interest to everyone is its mere strategy by what device? 238 00:16:45,916 --> 00:16:48,996 Speaker 1: Precisely well Brian Trimmell Clarence Darrow. For no one here 239 00:16:49,076 --> 00:16:51,916 Speaker 1: seems to doubt that Brian railway, that is, if about 240 00:16:51,956 --> 00:16:56,036 Speaker 1: goes to a fashion. But remember, the audience for this 241 00:16:56,076 --> 00:16:58,916 Speaker 1: trial wasn't only that courtroom in Dayton. It was also 242 00:16:59,036 --> 00:17:02,516 Speaker 1: the millions of Americans tuning it at home. To that 243 00:17:02,796 --> 00:17:06,316 Speaker 1: national audience. Darrow was making a point about the place 244 00:17:06,356 --> 00:17:10,596 Speaker 1: of science in the American mind. Early on he delivered 245 00:17:10,596 --> 00:17:14,076 Speaker 1: a speech that kept everyone listening in glued to their radios. 246 00:17:16,396 --> 00:17:20,356 Speaker 1: Here we find today as brazen and as bold an 247 00:17:20,356 --> 00:17:22,996 Speaker 1: attempt to destroy learning as was ever made in the 248 00:17:22,996 --> 00:17:27,276 Speaker 1: Middle Ages. And the only difference is we have not 249 00:17:27,396 --> 00:17:30,716 Speaker 1: provided that they shall be burned at the stake. But 250 00:17:30,836 --> 00:17:35,316 Speaker 1: there is time for that, Your honor Darrow knew he 251 00:17:35,356 --> 00:17:38,476 Speaker 1: had two audiences, the whole country and that jury of 252 00:17:38,516 --> 00:17:42,156 Speaker 1: twelve men. He walked a tight rope, mostly though he 253 00:17:42,196 --> 00:17:46,036 Speaker 1: appealed to the nation, the State of Tennessee, under an 254 00:17:46,036 --> 00:17:49,716 Speaker 1: honest and fair interpretation of the Constitution, has no more 255 00:17:49,796 --> 00:17:52,476 Speaker 1: right to teach the Bible as the divine book than 256 00:17:52,556 --> 00:17:56,116 Speaker 1: that the Quran is one the book of Mormons, or 257 00:17:56,116 --> 00:17:59,996 Speaker 1: the Book of Confucius, or the Buddha, or the Essays 258 00:17:59,996 --> 00:18:03,036 Speaker 1: of Emerson, or any one of the ten thousand books 259 00:18:03,036 --> 00:18:06,756 Speaker 1: to which human souls have gone for consolation and aid 260 00:18:06,836 --> 00:18:14,396 Speaker 1: in their troubles. Tennessee's constitution specifically protected religious freedom in 261 00:18:14,556 --> 00:18:18,876 Speaker 1: language that borrowed very heavily from Virginia's Statute for Religious Freedom, 262 00:18:19,356 --> 00:18:23,636 Speaker 1: which had been written by Thomas Jefferson. Whereas Almighty God 263 00:18:23,796 --> 00:18:27,916 Speaker 1: hath created the mind free, no man shall be compelled 264 00:18:27,956 --> 00:18:34,436 Speaker 1: to frequent or support any religious worship place or ministry whatsoever. 265 00:18:35,596 --> 00:18:38,916 Speaker 1: So when Darrow said Tennessee couldn't require anyone to teach 266 00:18:38,956 --> 00:18:42,876 Speaker 1: the Bible as a divine book, he had constitutional cause. Obviously, 267 00:18:42,956 --> 00:18:45,636 Speaker 1: the Tennessee legislature disagreed with them, or else they wouldn't 268 00:18:45,676 --> 00:18:48,476 Speaker 1: have passed that evolution law. So Darrow had to go 269 00:18:48,516 --> 00:18:51,436 Speaker 1: a lot further. And here he was talking to the jury. 270 00:18:53,276 --> 00:18:57,796 Speaker 1: What is the Bible. Well, it is a book primarily 271 00:18:57,836 --> 00:19:01,516 Speaker 1: of religion and morals. It is not a book of science, 272 00:19:02,636 --> 00:19:05,556 Speaker 1: never was and was never meant to be. It is 273 00:19:05,596 --> 00:19:09,436 Speaker 1: not a textbook or a text on chemistry. Is not 274 00:19:09,516 --> 00:19:13,876 Speaker 1: a work on evolution that was a mystery, is not 275 00:19:13,956 --> 00:19:17,676 Speaker 1: a work on astronomy. The man who looked out at 276 00:19:17,676 --> 00:19:20,476 Speaker 1: the universe and studied the heavens had no thought but 277 00:19:20,596 --> 00:19:24,556 Speaker 1: that the Earth was the center of the universe. But 278 00:19:24,716 --> 00:19:28,476 Speaker 1: we know better than that. They thought the Sun went 279 00:19:28,516 --> 00:19:30,996 Speaker 1: around the Earth and gave us light and gave us night. 280 00:19:32,436 --> 00:19:35,076 Speaker 1: He's orating like a prophet straight out of the King 281 00:19:35,156 --> 00:19:41,476 Speaker 1: James Bible. We know better. I doubt if there is 282 00:19:41,476 --> 00:19:45,036 Speaker 1: a person in Tennessee who does not know better. They 283 00:19:45,156 --> 00:19:48,596 Speaker 1: told us the best they knew. But man finds out 284 00:19:48,596 --> 00:19:52,156 Speaker 1: what he can and yearns to know more and supplements 285 00:19:52,196 --> 00:19:56,436 Speaker 1: his knowledge with hope and faith. Darrow talked about what 286 00:19:56,516 --> 00:19:58,796 Speaker 1: was actually in the Bible, the story of Adam and Eve, 287 00:19:59,156 --> 00:20:02,036 Speaker 1: and how much people disagreed about what the Bible even said. 288 00:20:02,476 --> 00:20:05,916 Speaker 1: Different religions, different sects, there were so many just in Dayton. 289 00:20:06,676 --> 00:20:09,796 Speaker 1: Then finally he got to scopes his crime, which he 290 00:20:09,916 --> 00:20:13,476 Speaker 1: said was no crime at all. He taught the doctrine 291 00:20:13,476 --> 00:20:16,676 Speaker 1: of evolution, which is taught by every believed by every 292 00:20:16,676 --> 00:20:22,396 Speaker 1: scientific man on earth. You could hear over the radio 293 00:20:22,476 --> 00:20:24,876 Speaker 1: the sound of people trying to fan themselves like so 294 00:20:24,956 --> 00:20:28,516 Speaker 1: many bird wings flapping. Inside the courtroom, the temperature had 295 00:20:28,596 --> 00:20:32,436 Speaker 1: risen to one hundred degrees fahrenheit. People's pants and skirts 296 00:20:32,476 --> 00:20:35,836 Speaker 1: stuck to their seats, but they were glued there anyway. 297 00:20:36,396 --> 00:20:40,716 Speaker 1: By Darrell's speech, he was two hours into it. Your 298 00:20:40,756 --> 00:20:43,476 Speaker 1: Honor knows the fires that have been lighted in America 299 00:20:43,556 --> 00:20:47,476 Speaker 1: to kindle religious bigotry and hate. You know that there 300 00:20:47,556 --> 00:20:51,276 Speaker 1: is no suspicion which possesses the minds of men like 301 00:20:51,396 --> 00:20:56,596 Speaker 1: bigotry and ignorance and hatred. Here's the part, the big 302 00:20:56,636 --> 00:20:59,356 Speaker 1: part where Darrows is the lines that Spencer Tracy would 303 00:20:59,436 --> 00:21:02,756 Speaker 1: later re enact and inherit the wind. The movie script, 304 00:21:02,756 --> 00:21:06,596 Speaker 1: at least here is straight from the trial transcript. And okay, 305 00:21:07,036 --> 00:21:11,956 Speaker 1: it is a great speech, Your Honor. It is the 306 00:21:12,076 --> 00:21:16,436 Speaker 1: setting of man against man and creed against creed, until 307 00:21:16,436 --> 00:21:20,996 Speaker 1: with flying banners and beating drums, we are marching backward 308 00:21:21,036 --> 00:21:25,116 Speaker 1: to the glorious ages of the sixteenth century, when bigots 309 00:21:25,156 --> 00:21:27,796 Speaker 1: lighted faggots to burn the men who dared to bring 310 00:21:27,796 --> 00:21:31,516 Speaker 1: any intelligence and enlightenment and culture to the human mind. 311 00:21:34,516 --> 00:21:37,596 Speaker 1: I'm all in. I suspect you're all in. Maybe the 312 00:21:37,636 --> 00:21:39,716 Speaker 1: people listening to the radio in the big cities we're 313 00:21:39,716 --> 00:21:45,436 Speaker 1: all into. But the audience in Dayton was not caught 314 00:21:45,516 --> 00:21:51,636 Speaker 1: his adjourn until nine tomorrow morning. Darrow's speech rose like 315 00:21:51,676 --> 00:21:55,996 Speaker 1: a wind and ended like a flourish abulance. The very 316 00:21:56,076 --> 00:21:59,956 Speaker 1: judge on a bench began to look uneasy, the Morons 317 00:21:59,996 --> 00:22:06,076 Speaker 1: and the audience when it was over. Simply hisstor Mancin 318 00:22:06,196 --> 00:22:09,556 Speaker 1: was a mean bastard. He hated that crowd into to see. 319 00:22:09,916 --> 00:22:12,996 Speaker 1: He thought they were all idiots. He was just one voice. 320 00:22:12,996 --> 00:22:17,516 Speaker 1: Though that day, telegraph operators wired more than two hundred 321 00:22:17,516 --> 00:22:21,956 Speaker 1: thousand words from Dayton, setting a record. During the whole 322 00:22:21,956 --> 00:22:27,076 Speaker 1: time of Darrel's delivery, the old Mountebank Ryan sat tackle 323 00:22:27,156 --> 00:22:30,636 Speaker 1: it's a done move. There is, of course no reason 324 00:22:30,676 --> 00:22:33,716 Speaker 1: why it should have shaken him. He has hill that 325 00:22:33,996 --> 00:22:36,516 Speaker 1: is locked up in his pen, and he knows it. 326 00:22:38,876 --> 00:22:41,796 Speaker 1: If you get your history only from hl Mankin, then 327 00:22:41,876 --> 00:22:45,716 Speaker 1: Clarence Darrow was brilliant, and William Jennings Bryan was a bigot. 328 00:22:46,636 --> 00:22:49,756 Speaker 1: Mankin comes through loud and clear, but it can be 329 00:22:49,756 --> 00:22:53,116 Speaker 1: hard to hear everyone else. That's why we're here in 330 00:22:53,156 --> 00:22:56,636 Speaker 1: the last archive to turn up the volume on the 331 00:22:56,756 --> 00:23:09,436 Speaker 1: quieter voices. People have to believe something before they out it. 332 00:23:10,156 --> 00:23:13,076 Speaker 1: Believe in gods or one God, or Karma, or the 333 00:23:13,156 --> 00:23:17,956 Speaker 1: Torah or the Koran or the Bible. People believe, then 334 00:23:17,996 --> 00:23:21,356 Speaker 1: some people began to doubt belief and out are partners 335 00:23:21,556 --> 00:23:26,676 Speaker 1: engaged in an endless ancient dance. Skepticism itself was an 336 00:23:26,676 --> 00:23:30,996 Speaker 1: intellectual movement in ancient Greece. Every time a doubter is 337 00:23:31,036 --> 00:23:34,436 Speaker 1: on trial, that trial has as its precedent one that 338 00:23:34,476 --> 00:23:37,636 Speaker 1: took place more than two thousand years ago in Athens. 339 00:23:39,036 --> 00:23:42,556 Speaker 1: Socrates is a doer of evil and corruptor of the youth. 340 00:23:42,796 --> 00:23:45,196 Speaker 1: And he does not believe in the gods of the state, 341 00:23:45,556 --> 00:23:51,116 Speaker 1: and he believes in other new divinities of his own. Socrates, 342 00:23:51,156 --> 00:23:54,636 Speaker 1: a philosopher, a teacher, had stood accused of doubt because 343 00:23:54,636 --> 00:23:58,076 Speaker 1: he had asked questions about the gods. He waged his 344 00:23:58,116 --> 00:24:02,956 Speaker 1: own defense, and if convicted by the jury hundreds of Athenians, 345 00:24:02,996 --> 00:24:07,196 Speaker 1: he faced death. I should like to know in what 346 00:24:07,396 --> 00:24:10,356 Speaker 1: I am affirmed to corrupt the young. I do not 347 00:24:10,556 --> 00:24:13,796 Speaker 1: as yet understand whether you affirm that I teach others 348 00:24:13,796 --> 00:24:17,196 Speaker 1: to acknowledge some god, but they are not the same 349 00:24:17,316 --> 00:24:21,076 Speaker 1: gods which the city recognizes. Or do you mean to 350 00:24:21,116 --> 00:24:23,996 Speaker 1: say that I am a teacher of atheism? I mean 351 00:24:24,076 --> 00:24:28,516 Speaker 1: that you are a complete atheist. Socrates argued that the 352 00:24:28,556 --> 00:24:33,556 Speaker 1: prosecutor made a common error. He'd mistaken belief for knowledge. 353 00:24:33,996 --> 00:24:36,996 Speaker 1: To believe is to know little. To doubt, though, is 354 00:24:37,036 --> 00:24:39,836 Speaker 1: to know even less, except to have one very important 355 00:24:39,836 --> 00:24:43,956 Speaker 1: bit of knowledge, knowledge that you don't know much. By 356 00:24:43,996 --> 00:24:47,436 Speaker 1: way of illustration, Socrates told the court the story about 357 00:24:47,436 --> 00:24:51,956 Speaker 1: meeting a man with a reputation for wisdom. When I 358 00:24:51,996 --> 00:24:54,516 Speaker 1: began to talk with him, I could not help thinking 359 00:24:54,596 --> 00:24:57,236 Speaker 1: that he was not really wise, although he was thought 360 00:24:57,276 --> 00:25:02,076 Speaker 1: wise by many, and wiser still by himself. So I 361 00:25:02,156 --> 00:25:05,956 Speaker 1: left them, saying to myself as I went away, well, 362 00:25:07,036 --> 00:25:10,076 Speaker 1: although I do not suppose that either of knows anything 363 00:25:10,076 --> 00:25:13,596 Speaker 1: really beautiful or good, I am better off than he, 364 00:25:14,716 --> 00:25:18,396 Speaker 1: for he knows nothing, and thinks that he knows. I 365 00:25:18,556 --> 00:25:25,116 Speaker 1: neither know nor think that I know. This, Socrates insisted, 366 00:25:25,436 --> 00:25:27,956 Speaker 1: was what the charges against him really came down to. 367 00:25:28,636 --> 00:25:30,836 Speaker 1: It's not that he didn't believe in the divinity of 368 00:25:30,876 --> 00:25:34,036 Speaker 1: the sun or the moon. It's that he had demonstrated 369 00:25:34,076 --> 00:25:37,276 Speaker 1: that people who are believed to be wise were ignorant, 370 00:25:37,556 --> 00:25:41,236 Speaker 1: and they hated him for it. The jury found Socrates 371 00:25:41,316 --> 00:25:45,236 Speaker 1: guilty of impiety and corrupting the young, and condemned him 372 00:25:45,396 --> 00:25:49,916 Speaker 1: to death. In response, he imagined an afterlife in which 373 00:25:49,956 --> 00:25:54,476 Speaker 1: he could further his inquiries by asking questions of the dead. 374 00:25:55,036 --> 00:25:58,196 Speaker 1: I shall be able to continue my search into true 375 00:25:58,236 --> 00:26:01,316 Speaker 1: and false knowledge. For in that world they do not 376 00:26:01,436 --> 00:26:07,276 Speaker 1: put a man to death for this. To doubt, to 377 00:26:07,356 --> 00:26:10,876 Speaker 1: really doubt, is to admit what you don't know. In 378 00:26:10,916 --> 00:26:13,636 Speaker 1: the case of Socrates, it's to admit it so holy 379 00:26:13,676 --> 00:26:16,476 Speaker 1: and so honestly that you're willing to die for it. 380 00:26:18,476 --> 00:26:22,916 Speaker 1: Centuries later, in progressive era America, Socrates had become something 381 00:26:22,956 --> 00:26:26,276 Speaker 1: of a cult hero, a symbol of the defensive free inquiry. 382 00:26:26,996 --> 00:26:29,956 Speaker 1: Even Time magazine compared the Scopes trial to the trial 383 00:26:29,956 --> 00:26:34,076 Speaker 1: of Socrates. But in Dayton, Tennessee in nineteen twenty five, 384 00:26:34,596 --> 00:26:37,556 Speaker 1: Clarence Darrow didn't say things like I neither know nor 385 00:26:37,636 --> 00:26:40,636 Speaker 1: think that I know. He knew what he knew, and 386 00:26:40,796 --> 00:26:43,556 Speaker 1: he sought to defend his client the ordinary way by 387 00:26:43,596 --> 00:26:46,796 Speaker 1: casting doubt about the case made by the prosecution, led 388 00:26:46,796 --> 00:26:51,396 Speaker 1: by William Jennings. Bryan Darrow often did this by mocking Brian, 389 00:26:51,916 --> 00:26:55,196 Speaker 1: So did HL Lincoln, who called Brian an old buzzard. 390 00:26:56,436 --> 00:26:58,676 Speaker 1: It is a tragedy indeed, to begin life as a 391 00:26:58,716 --> 00:27:03,076 Speaker 1: hero and ended as before well, that no one laughing 392 00:27:03,116 --> 00:27:06,556 Speaker 1: at him underestimate the magic clip eyes in his black 393 00:27:06,716 --> 00:27:11,676 Speaker 1: malignant eye is fraid stell eloquent woice. He can shake 394 00:27:11,756 --> 00:27:14,316 Speaker 1: him and find him his pardon, Ramises has now the 395 00:27:14,396 --> 00:27:17,036 Speaker 1: round of on us can shaken and fine mouth, and 396 00:27:17,236 --> 00:27:22,996 Speaker 1: as desperate lager toward of the charge. On Thursday, the 397 00:27:23,116 --> 00:27:25,556 Speaker 1: fifth day of the trial, Brian spoke at length for 398 00:27:25,676 --> 00:27:28,356 Speaker 1: the first time, in order to object to the defense's 399 00:27:28,396 --> 00:27:32,356 Speaker 1: motion to bring in expert witnesses, scientists who could argue 400 00:27:32,396 --> 00:27:37,076 Speaker 1: for the scientific consensus about the theory of evolution. It is, 401 00:27:37,516 --> 00:27:40,436 Speaker 1: I think apparent to all that we have now reached 402 00:27:40,596 --> 00:27:44,476 Speaker 1: the heart of this case. To permit an expert to 403 00:27:44,596 --> 00:27:48,716 Speaker 1: testify upon this issue would be to substitute trial by 404 00:27:48,956 --> 00:27:52,956 Speaker 1: experts for trial by jury, and to announce to the 405 00:27:53,076 --> 00:27:57,356 Speaker 1: world your honor's belief that this jury is too stupid 406 00:27:57,476 --> 00:28:02,796 Speaker 1: to determine a simple question of fact. There is not 407 00:28:02,996 --> 00:28:06,756 Speaker 1: a scientist in all the world who can trace one 408 00:28:07,076 --> 00:28:11,636 Speaker 1: single species to any other, and yet they call us 409 00:28:12,076 --> 00:28:17,356 Speaker 1: ignoramuses and bigots because we do not throw away our Bible. 410 00:28:17,956 --> 00:28:21,076 Speaker 1: The one beauty about the Word of God is it 411 00:28:21,276 --> 00:28:26,716 Speaker 1: does not take an expert to understand it. Brian pointed 412 00:28:26,716 --> 00:28:29,516 Speaker 1: out that the people of Tennessee had elected their legislature 413 00:28:29,756 --> 00:28:32,796 Speaker 1: to enact their will. The people, he said, get to 414 00:28:32,876 --> 00:28:38,196 Speaker 1: decide what's taught in schools, not experts. An expert cannot 415 00:28:38,276 --> 00:28:40,876 Speaker 1: be permitted to come in here and try to defeat 416 00:28:40,956 --> 00:28:44,076 Speaker 1: the enforcement of a law by testifying that it is 417 00:28:44,156 --> 00:28:47,436 Speaker 1: a bad law. The place to prove that or teach 418 00:28:47,596 --> 00:28:51,876 Speaker 1: that was to the legislature. On Friday, one week into 419 00:28:51,916 --> 00:28:57,036 Speaker 1: the trial, the judge sustained Brian's objections. The evidence of 420 00:28:57,236 --> 00:29:00,636 Speaker 1: experts would shed no light on the issues. Therefore, the 421 00:29:00,756 --> 00:29:03,916 Speaker 1: court is content to sustain the motion to exclude the 422 00:29:03,996 --> 00:29:08,076 Speaker 1: expert testimony. I do not understand why every suggestion of 423 00:29:08,116 --> 00:29:10,876 Speaker 1: the prosecution to meet with an endless waste of time 424 00:29:11,396 --> 00:29:14,476 Speaker 1: and a bare suggestion of anything that is perfectly competent 425 00:29:14,596 --> 00:29:17,476 Speaker 1: on our part should be immediately overrule. I hope you 426 00:29:17,596 --> 00:29:20,996 Speaker 1: do not mean to reflect upon the cult. Well, your 427 00:29:21,076 --> 00:29:23,076 Speaker 1: honor has the right to hope, I have the right 428 00:29:23,156 --> 00:29:30,756 Speaker 1: to do something else. Perhaps the judge would sit Daryl 429 00:29:30,836 --> 00:29:35,276 Speaker 1: for contempt. Darrel would apologize. Meanwhile, the two prize fighters 430 00:29:35,436 --> 00:29:39,196 Speaker 1: went back to their corners. This is how a show 431 00:29:39,276 --> 00:29:42,916 Speaker 1: trial works. Trials are imperfect means of reaching the truth. 432 00:29:43,316 --> 00:29:46,036 Speaker 1: But this show trial was also a culture war, and 433 00:29:46,196 --> 00:29:49,796 Speaker 1: a culture war really never arrives at the truth because 434 00:29:49,836 --> 00:29:52,716 Speaker 1: its combatants are only interested in the glory of the skirmish. 435 00:29:53,676 --> 00:29:55,796 Speaker 1: They like to hear the sound of their own voices 436 00:29:55,836 --> 00:29:58,956 Speaker 1: on the radio. Every move, every maneuver in a culture 437 00:29:58,956 --> 00:30:04,236 Speaker 1: war makes things worse. The next bout was slated to 438 00:30:04,316 --> 00:30:08,036 Speaker 1: begin on Monday morning. On Saturday, Darrow, deprived of his 439 00:30:08,156 --> 00:30:11,596 Speaker 1: team of experts scientists, told a friend that he decided 440 00:30:11,676 --> 00:30:15,996 Speaker 1: he needed only one witness to prove his case. I'm 441 00:30:16,036 --> 00:30:18,156 Speaker 1: going to put a Bible expert on the stand about 442 00:30:18,236 --> 00:30:21,636 Speaker 1: day after tomorrow, greatest in the world. He thinks a 443 00:30:21,876 --> 00:30:25,676 Speaker 1: master stroke. Never mind about the master stuff, and don't 444 00:30:25,716 --> 00:30:30,196 Speaker 1: talk so loud. Too many reporters around here. If Daryl 445 00:30:30,196 --> 00:30:33,116 Speaker 1: couldn't bring in scientists to prove the truth of doubt, 446 00:30:33,596 --> 00:30:36,196 Speaker 1: he could bring in a believer to prove the error 447 00:30:36,276 --> 00:30:40,716 Speaker 1: of faith, the defense called to the stand. It's surprise, 448 00:30:40,876 --> 00:31:01,116 Speaker 1: witness William Jennings Bryan, the old buzzard himself. That's possidence. 449 00:31:02,676 --> 00:31:04,876 Speaker 1: On Monday morning, the beginning of the second week of 450 00:31:04,916 --> 00:31:08,116 Speaker 1: the Scopes trial, the courthouse was so crowded it was 451 00:31:08,236 --> 00:31:11,436 Speaker 1: feared the floor might collapse, so the judge moved the 452 00:31:11,516 --> 00:31:16,516 Speaker 1: trial outdoors to the lawn under a giant tent, and 453 00:31:16,676 --> 00:31:19,836 Speaker 1: then Darrow announced that he planned to call Brian to 454 00:31:19,916 --> 00:31:24,396 Speaker 1: the stand as a witness for the defense. Has word spread, 455 00:31:24,596 --> 00:31:28,356 Speaker 1: the crowd grew from five hundred to more than three thousand. 456 00:31:32,276 --> 00:31:35,036 Speaker 1: Where do you want me to sit, mister Brian? You 457 00:31:35,116 --> 00:31:38,476 Speaker 1: are not objecting to going on the stand, not at all. 458 00:31:38,996 --> 00:31:41,756 Speaker 1: Do you want, mister Brian swan? No? I can make 459 00:31:41,796 --> 00:31:45,596 Speaker 1: an affirmation, I can say, so help me God, I 460 00:31:45,756 --> 00:31:49,476 Speaker 1: will tell the truth. No, I take it. You will 461 00:31:49,596 --> 00:31:54,436 Speaker 1: tell the truth, mister Brian. You have given considerable study 462 00:31:54,556 --> 00:31:57,996 Speaker 1: to the Bible, haven't you, mister Brian, Yes, sir, I 463 00:31:58,156 --> 00:32:01,316 Speaker 1: have tried to. I have studied the Bible for about 464 00:32:01,436 --> 00:32:04,556 Speaker 1: fifty years. Do you claim that everything in the Bible 465 00:32:04,636 --> 00:32:09,476 Speaker 1: should be literally interpreted? I believe everything in the Bible 466 00:32:09,796 --> 00:32:13,716 Speaker 1: should be accepted as it is given there. Some of 467 00:32:13,836 --> 00:32:18,116 Speaker 1: the Bible is given illustratively. For instance, ye are the 468 00:32:18,236 --> 00:32:21,836 Speaker 1: salt of the earth. I would not insist that a 469 00:32:21,916 --> 00:32:25,156 Speaker 1: man was actually salt, or that he had flesh of salt, 470 00:32:25,516 --> 00:32:27,916 Speaker 1: but it is used in the sense of salt as 471 00:32:27,956 --> 00:32:33,796 Speaker 1: saying God's people. Darrow asked Brian whether the whale really 472 00:32:33,876 --> 00:32:37,676 Speaker 1: swallowed Jonah that sort of thing he asked him when 473 00:32:37,716 --> 00:32:40,676 Speaker 1: the flood happened, and whether it really wiped out every 474 00:32:40,756 --> 00:32:43,316 Speaker 1: living thing except for Noah and his wife and the 475 00:32:43,436 --> 00:32:46,916 Speaker 1: animals on his arc. Mainly, Brian said he didn't know 476 00:32:46,996 --> 00:32:49,356 Speaker 1: anything but what was in the Bible, and he wasn't 477 00:32:49,396 --> 00:32:53,756 Speaker 1: curious about anything else either. Mister Bryan's complete lack of 478 00:32:53,916 --> 00:32:57,196 Speaker 1: interest in many of the things closely connected with such 479 00:32:57,276 --> 00:33:01,396 Speaker 1: religious questions as he had been supporting for many years, 480 00:33:01,556 --> 00:33:05,956 Speaker 1: was strikingly shown again and again by mister Darrow. Okay, 481 00:33:06,036 --> 00:33:09,396 Speaker 1: so Brian didn't have a lot of intellectual curiosity, but 482 00:33:09,596 --> 00:33:12,236 Speaker 1: mocking him the way a lot of newspaper reporters did 483 00:33:12,436 --> 00:33:16,756 Speaker 1: the way Darrow did was also wildly unfair. It misses 484 00:33:16,876 --> 00:33:21,436 Speaker 1: most of what's worth knowing here. Long before William Jennings. 485 00:33:21,516 --> 00:33:25,316 Speaker 1: Bryan became famous as a fundamentalist long before the Scopes trial. 486 00:33:25,756 --> 00:33:29,196 Speaker 1: He'd been a reformer, a defender of the poor. Even 487 00:33:29,316 --> 00:33:32,516 Speaker 1: Darrow had supported him. Back then, Brian had nearly been 488 00:33:32,556 --> 00:33:37,556 Speaker 1: elected president. He'd run three times. Also, he didn't hate science. 489 00:33:38,036 --> 00:33:42,196 Speaker 1: He hated Darwinism, but he reserved a special censure for 490 00:33:42,276 --> 00:33:46,636 Speaker 1: a particular kind of Darwinism, Social Darwinism, the idea that 491 00:33:46,756 --> 00:33:50,796 Speaker 1: among humans it's right that only the fit survived. In 492 00:33:50,916 --> 00:33:54,516 Speaker 1: a speech he gave countless times, Brian explained his position 493 00:33:54,596 --> 00:34:00,276 Speaker 1: on evolution. I object to Darwinian theory because I fear 494 00:34:00,396 --> 00:34:04,476 Speaker 1: we shall lose the consciousness of God's presence in our 495 00:34:04,596 --> 00:34:08,316 Speaker 1: daily life if we must accept the theory that through 496 00:34:08,436 --> 00:34:13,276 Speaker 1: all the ages, no spiritual force has touched the life 497 00:34:13,436 --> 00:34:17,716 Speaker 1: of a man and shaped the destiny of nations. But 498 00:34:17,876 --> 00:34:23,356 Speaker 1: there is another objection. The Darwinian theory represents man as 499 00:34:23,516 --> 00:34:27,316 Speaker 1: reaching his present perfection by the operation of the law 500 00:34:27,516 --> 00:34:31,796 Speaker 1: of hate, the merciless law by which the strong crowd 501 00:34:31,876 --> 00:34:36,396 Speaker 1: out and kill off the weak. In other words, social 502 00:34:36,516 --> 00:34:40,196 Speaker 1: Darwinism implied that the poor were unfit and that they 503 00:34:40,276 --> 00:34:43,676 Speaker 1: deserved to be poor. In a speech called the menace 504 00:34:43,716 --> 00:34:46,516 Speaker 1: of Darwinism. Brian laid out his support for a raft 505 00:34:46,556 --> 00:34:49,196 Speaker 1: of progressive reforms that aim to check the very idea 506 00:34:49,636 --> 00:34:53,996 Speaker 1: that only the fittest should survive. Pure food laws have 507 00:34:54,196 --> 00:34:59,436 Speaker 1: become necessary to keep manufacturers from poisoning their customers. Child 508 00:34:59,596 --> 00:35:03,716 Speaker 1: labor laws have become necessary to keep employers from dwarfing 509 00:35:03,796 --> 00:35:09,396 Speaker 1: the bodies, minds, and souls of children. That by ology 510 00:35:09,436 --> 00:35:12,836 Speaker 1: textbook that Scopes used in his classroom, its discussion of 511 00:35:12,916 --> 00:35:17,356 Speaker 1: evolution also happened to endorse the forced sterilization of people 512 00:35:17,436 --> 00:35:21,036 Speaker 1: like epileptics, the mentally ill, and those who were called 513 00:35:21,476 --> 00:35:25,156 Speaker 1: feeble minded. If such people were lower animals, we would 514 00:35:25,196 --> 00:35:28,796 Speaker 1: probably kill them off to prevent them from spreading. Humanity 515 00:35:28,836 --> 00:35:31,316 Speaker 1: will not allow this. But we do have the remedy 516 00:35:31,396 --> 00:35:35,156 Speaker 1: of separating the sexes in asylums or other places, and 517 00:35:35,316 --> 00:35:38,676 Speaker 1: in various ways preventing inner marriage and the possibility of 518 00:35:38,796 --> 00:35:45,036 Speaker 1: perpetuating such a low and degenerate race. That's textbook social 519 00:35:45,116 --> 00:35:49,756 Speaker 1: Darwinism eugenics. In nineteen twenty one, when Kentucky's Baptist Board 520 00:35:49,796 --> 00:35:51,916 Speaker 1: of Missions called for a law to ban the teaching 521 00:35:51,956 --> 00:35:56,476 Speaker 1: of evolution, Brian decided to wage a national crusade he 522 00:35:56,636 --> 00:36:01,076 Speaker 1: saw in secular modernity the end of Christian sympathy, compassion, 523 00:36:01,436 --> 00:36:07,956 Speaker 1: and charity. Four years later, in nineteen twenty five, Brian's 524 00:36:07,996 --> 00:36:11,196 Speaker 1: crusade brought in to the Scoop's trial, where he squared 525 00:36:11,236 --> 00:36:16,396 Speaker 1: off against Clarence Darrow. Mister Brian, because you tell me 526 00:36:16,556 --> 00:36:21,396 Speaker 1: how old the earth is, no, sir, I couldn't. The 527 00:36:21,516 --> 00:36:24,596 Speaker 1: Tennessee Attorney General leapt from his chair and interrupted. He 528 00:36:24,796 --> 00:36:27,636 Speaker 1: begged for this to stop. What is the purpose of 529 00:36:27,716 --> 00:36:30,356 Speaker 1: all of this? But Brian was delighted to have the 530 00:36:30,476 --> 00:36:32,756 Speaker 1: chance to answer for both the court and the jury 531 00:36:33,236 --> 00:36:36,676 Speaker 1: and the listeners across the country tuned into their radios. 532 00:36:38,316 --> 00:36:42,716 Speaker 1: The purpose is to cast ridicule on everybody who believes 533 00:36:42,836 --> 00:36:46,356 Speaker 1: in the Bible. And I am perfectly willing that the 534 00:36:46,476 --> 00:36:50,276 Speaker 1: world shall know that these gentlemen have no other purpose 535 00:36:50,556 --> 00:36:54,116 Speaker 1: than ridiculing every Christian who believes in the Bible. We 536 00:36:54,276 --> 00:36:57,596 Speaker 1: have the purpose of preventing bigots and ignoramus is from 537 00:36:57,676 --> 00:37:00,876 Speaker 1: controlling the education of the United States. And you know it. 538 00:37:01,116 --> 00:37:04,396 Speaker 1: I am simply trying to protect the Word of God 539 00:37:05,076 --> 00:37:09,676 Speaker 1: against the greatest atheist or agnostic in the United States. 540 00:37:12,116 --> 00:37:14,556 Speaker 1: I want the papers to know that I am not 541 00:37:14,716 --> 00:37:17,156 Speaker 1: afraid to get on the stand in front of him 542 00:37:17,236 --> 00:37:20,036 Speaker 1: and let him do his worst. I want the world 543 00:37:20,236 --> 00:37:25,956 Speaker 1: to know the judge let it go on. The audience 544 00:37:26,036 --> 00:37:29,596 Speaker 1: sweated and swatted it flies, The sun bore down, the 545 00:37:29,716 --> 00:37:35,276 Speaker 1: telegraph machines clattered. Daryl kept questioning Brian, how long had 546 00:37:35,276 --> 00:37:37,516 Speaker 1: it taken God to create the earth and everything in it? 547 00:37:38,156 --> 00:37:41,796 Speaker 1: Seven days? Have you any idea of the length of 548 00:37:41,876 --> 00:37:45,876 Speaker 1: these periods? No, I don't. Do you think the sun 549 00:37:46,116 --> 00:37:49,596 Speaker 1: was made on the fourth day? Yes? And they had 550 00:37:49,636 --> 00:37:53,276 Speaker 1: an evening and morning without the sun. I am simply 551 00:37:53,436 --> 00:37:57,076 Speaker 1: saying it is a period. They had an evening in 552 00:37:57,236 --> 00:38:00,516 Speaker 1: mourning for four periods without the sun. Do you think 553 00:38:00,756 --> 00:38:04,636 Speaker 1: I believe in creation as they're told? And if I'm 554 00:38:04,716 --> 00:38:08,716 Speaker 1: not able to explain it, I will accept it. Was 555 00:38:08,796 --> 00:38:12,476 Speaker 1: every thing in the Bible true? Or was it worth doubting? 556 00:38:13,476 --> 00:38:18,356 Speaker 1: Or had Darrow gone far past doubting the Bible and 557 00:38:18,476 --> 00:38:23,316 Speaker 1: then to mocking people who believe it? The only purpose 558 00:38:23,716 --> 00:38:29,196 Speaker 1: mister Darrow has is to slur the Bible. I object 559 00:38:29,276 --> 00:38:32,956 Speaker 1: to your statement. I am examining your fool ideas that 560 00:38:33,156 --> 00:38:40,076 Speaker 1: no intelligent Christian on earth believes fool ideas like if 561 00:38:40,116 --> 00:38:42,196 Speaker 1: in the beginning there was only Adam and Eve and 562 00:38:42,276 --> 00:38:45,516 Speaker 1: they had two sons, where did Kane find a mate? 563 00:38:46,156 --> 00:38:49,156 Speaker 1: Did you ever discover where Kane got his wife? No, sir, 564 00:38:49,556 --> 00:38:52,356 Speaker 1: I leave the agnostics to hunt for her. There were 565 00:38:52,436 --> 00:38:55,516 Speaker 1: no others recorded, but Kane got a wife. That is 566 00:38:55,636 --> 00:38:59,836 Speaker 1: what the Bible says. The judge asked the jury to 567 00:38:59,996 --> 00:39:04,396 Speaker 1: ignore all of Brian's testimony. Darrow declined to make a 568 00:39:04,436 --> 00:39:07,796 Speaker 1: closing argument. What else was there to say? That meant 569 00:39:07,836 --> 00:39:11,076 Speaker 1: that Brian couldn't make one either. The jury then took 570 00:39:11,276 --> 00:39:14,956 Speaker 1: nine minutes to deliberate. He found Scopes guilty of a 571 00:39:15,036 --> 00:39:18,836 Speaker 1: misdemeanor under state law. The judge find him one hundred dollars. 572 00:39:20,556 --> 00:39:23,796 Speaker 1: Narah had lost his case. It was lost long before 573 00:39:23,836 --> 00:39:26,676 Speaker 1: he came to date. But it seemed to me that 574 00:39:26,756 --> 00:39:29,876 Speaker 1: he has never last performed a great public service by 575 00:39:29,956 --> 00:39:32,436 Speaker 1: finding it to a finish and in a perfectly serious way, 576 00:39:33,756 --> 00:39:36,876 Speaker 1: it served notice on the country and at neanderthall Man 577 00:39:37,676 --> 00:39:41,156 Speaker 1: is organizing in these far alarmed back quarters of the land, 578 00:39:41,996 --> 00:39:45,676 Speaker 1: led by a fanatic, a rate of sense and avoid 579 00:39:45,716 --> 00:39:52,276 Speaker 1: of conscience. It had been and was always meant to 580 00:39:52,356 --> 00:39:56,356 Speaker 1: be a show trial. Even though Daryl lost. The trial 581 00:39:56,476 --> 00:39:59,876 Speaker 1: did what the aco you wanted. It got progressives worried 582 00:39:59,876 --> 00:40:04,756 Speaker 1: about fundamentalists, But what had the trial actually shown? That 583 00:40:04,876 --> 00:40:09,036 Speaker 1: a gulf was growing between believers and skeptics. That gulf 584 00:40:09,156 --> 00:40:13,156 Speaker 1: has grown wider since contempt, though, is not progress or 585 00:40:13,276 --> 00:40:16,796 Speaker 1: enlightenment or a march towards some glorious, tolerant new world. 586 00:40:17,716 --> 00:40:21,316 Speaker 1: It's just a dumb ass culture war. You may find 587 00:40:21,436 --> 00:40:25,796 Speaker 1: on you be lad. It will only bring you bread 588 00:40:26,636 --> 00:40:32,636 Speaker 1: or a house that build on sandy your nefa. And 589 00:40:33,076 --> 00:40:37,956 Speaker 1: wherever you may turn there the life on you will 590 00:40:38,156 --> 00:40:43,076 Speaker 1: learn that the old read it done bed after all. 591 00:40:53,796 --> 00:40:57,276 Speaker 1: Five days after the close of the Scoop's trial, William 592 00:40:57,356 --> 00:41:00,196 Speaker 1: Jennings Bryan died in his sleep. It was as if 593 00:41:00,476 --> 00:41:03,596 Speaker 1: fending off Clarence Darrow had sapped the very life out 594 00:41:03,636 --> 00:41:06,916 Speaker 1: of him. All around the country people tried to make 595 00:41:06,996 --> 00:41:11,036 Speaker 1: sense of the Trial of the century. One journalist, Walter 596 00:41:11,236 --> 00:41:14,276 Speaker 1: Lippmann decided the best way to reckon with the implications 597 00:41:14,316 --> 00:41:18,236 Speaker 1: of the trial was to imagine Brian in the afterlife. 598 00:41:25,036 --> 00:41:29,716 Speaker 1: Lippman pictured Brian meeting up there with Socrates and Thomas Jefferson. 599 00:41:30,316 --> 00:41:34,916 Speaker 1: Crazy mashup right, but so cool, also very last archive. 600 00:41:35,916 --> 00:41:39,196 Speaker 1: And remember Socrates always said, then in the afterlife he'd 601 00:41:39,236 --> 00:41:42,036 Speaker 1: be very excited to continue his inquiry into the nature 602 00:41:42,076 --> 00:41:45,436 Speaker 1: of belief. Here's how Lippman thought their conversation might go. 603 00:41:47,196 --> 00:41:52,036 Speaker 1: Socrates speaks first. I shall ask you a few questions. 604 00:41:53,036 --> 00:41:57,196 Speaker 1: Mister Jefferson can answer them all where you're not. Mister 605 00:41:57,356 --> 00:42:01,276 Speaker 1: Jefferson accused of being an enemy of religion. That is 606 00:42:01,396 --> 00:42:04,916 Speaker 1: a foolish question. You may not know it, mister Socrates, 607 00:42:05,036 --> 00:42:08,716 Speaker 1: but he was twice president of the United States. I 608 00:42:08,876 --> 00:42:12,436 Speaker 1: was denounced as an atheist by many good people. Were 609 00:42:12,556 --> 00:42:16,276 Speaker 1: you an atheist? No? But I disestablished the church in 610 00:42:16,396 --> 00:42:22,796 Speaker 1: Virginia on what theory? Socrates was asking Jefferson about Virginia's 611 00:42:22,796 --> 00:42:26,236 Speaker 1: Statute for Religious Freedom, which Jefferson had written and which 612 00:42:26,236 --> 00:42:29,596 Speaker 1: had found its way into the Tennessee Constitution. Too. Let 613 00:42:29,756 --> 00:42:34,036 Speaker 1: us be frank, did you not overthrow a state religion 614 00:42:34,156 --> 00:42:38,476 Speaker 1: based on revelation and established in its place the religion 615 00:42:38,556 --> 00:42:45,796 Speaker 1: of rationalism. It's getting very warm in here, question relentlessly 616 00:42:45,836 --> 00:42:49,596 Speaker 1: by Socrates. This is what's called the Socratic method. Who's 617 00:42:49,636 --> 00:42:52,476 Speaker 1: getting pretty hot up there for Jefferson too. I mean, 618 00:42:52,636 --> 00:42:55,436 Speaker 1: within the context of this truly weird but also great 619 00:42:55,516 --> 00:42:58,996 Speaker 1: imaginary scene said in the afterlife. Because here's the problem 620 00:42:59,076 --> 00:43:04,196 Speaker 1: with doubt. It's not the absence of belief. Skepticism is 621 00:43:04,236 --> 00:43:08,236 Speaker 1: a belief in inquiry, and belief in inquiry is foundational 622 00:43:08,396 --> 00:43:11,916 Speaker 1: to the United States. That's how a democracy works. But 623 00:43:12,036 --> 00:43:15,036 Speaker 1: Socrates kept on pressing Jefferson about the limits of his 624 00:43:15,196 --> 00:43:19,036 Speaker 1: tolerance for any belief other than the belief in reason. 625 00:43:20,036 --> 00:43:26,196 Speaker 1: Couldn't skepticism become its own religion. Jefferson had established a 626 00:43:26,236 --> 00:43:29,716 Speaker 1: public school and a university to teach knowledge as acquired 627 00:43:29,756 --> 00:43:32,556 Speaker 1: by the use of reason, a rejection of knowledge as 628 00:43:32,636 --> 00:43:38,116 Speaker 1: revealed by God. But Socrates kept asking questions. And then 629 00:43:38,196 --> 00:43:41,876 Speaker 1: your taxpayers believed that the best knowledge could be acquired 630 00:43:41,956 --> 00:43:46,396 Speaker 1: by human reason, Some believed it, some preferred revelation, and 631 00:43:46,556 --> 00:43:50,756 Speaker 1: which prevail those who believed in the human reason? Were 632 00:43:50,836 --> 00:43:53,996 Speaker 1: they the majority of the citizens, they must have been. 633 00:43:54,396 --> 00:43:59,356 Speaker 1: The legislature accepted my plans. You believe, mister Jefferson, that 634 00:43:59,476 --> 00:44:03,716 Speaker 1: the majority should rule, yes, providing it does not infringe 635 00:44:03,836 --> 00:44:07,556 Speaker 1: the natural rights of man. If you believe in majority rule, 636 00:44:07,756 --> 00:44:10,036 Speaker 1: a system of government where the people get to decide 637 00:44:10,076 --> 00:44:14,396 Speaker 1: what's true, what happens when people are just wrong, then 638 00:44:14,516 --> 00:44:17,756 Speaker 1: Socrates turned to a very sweaty William Jennings. Bryan, you 639 00:44:17,916 --> 00:44:20,396 Speaker 1: must have seen where all this was going, towards a 640 00:44:20,476 --> 00:44:27,116 Speaker 1: seemingly unresolvable conflict between fundamental American principles, majority rule and 641 00:44:27,236 --> 00:44:29,996 Speaker 1: the freedom of thought. Did you say you believe in 642 00:44:30,076 --> 00:44:34,596 Speaker 1: the separation of church and state? I did. It is 643 00:44:34,716 --> 00:44:38,236 Speaker 1: a fundamental principle. If the right of the majority to 644 00:44:38,436 --> 00:44:43,516 Speaker 1: rule a fundamental principle, it is. Is freedom of thought 645 00:44:43,636 --> 00:44:50,116 Speaker 1: a fundamental principle? Jefferson? It is, well, how would your 646 00:44:50,236 --> 00:44:55,836 Speaker 1: gentlemen compose your fundamental principles if a majority, exercising its 647 00:44:55,916 --> 00:45:00,316 Speaker 1: fundamental right to rule, ordain that only Buddhism should be 648 00:45:00,396 --> 00:45:05,156 Speaker 1: taught in the public schools, I'd move to a Christian country. 649 00:45:05,756 --> 00:45:10,396 Speaker 1: I'd exercise the sacred right of revolution. Do you do, Socrates? 650 00:45:12,196 --> 00:45:20,636 Speaker 1: I'd reexamine my fundamental principles. And that's what will be 651 00:45:20,756 --> 00:45:24,356 Speaker 1: up to two in this season of Doubt, re examining 652 00:45:24,396 --> 00:45:31,476 Speaker 1: our fundamental principles episode after episode, from hypnosis to propaganda 653 00:45:31,716 --> 00:45:35,276 Speaker 1: to conspiracy theories, Q and on, your decade will come 654 00:45:35,316 --> 00:45:39,796 Speaker 1: to as we crawl into the deeper, darker recesses of 655 00:45:39,916 --> 00:45:45,836 Speaker 1: the Last Archive. The Last Archive is written and hosted 656 00:45:45,876 --> 00:45:49,756 Speaker 1: by me Jillapour. It's produced by Sophie Crane, mckibbon and 657 00:45:49,916 --> 00:45:53,076 Speaker 1: Ben nat of Haafrey. Our editor is Julia Barton and 658 00:45:53,196 --> 00:45:57,596 Speaker 1: our executive producer is Mioobell. Martin Gonzalez is our engineer. 659 00:45:58,196 --> 00:46:01,436 Speaker 1: Fact checking by Emy Gains, Original music by Matthis Bossi 660 00:46:01,516 --> 00:46:05,596 Speaker 1: and John Evans Stillwagen, Symfinet. Our research assistants are Olivia 661 00:46:05,636 --> 00:46:09,076 Speaker 1: Oldham and all of our riskin cuts our full proof player. 662 00:46:09,116 --> 00:46:13,396 Speaker 1: There's a Yoshia Mau, Raymond Blankenhorne, Matthias Bosse, Dan Epstein, 663 00:46:13,676 --> 00:46:18,036 Speaker 1: Ethan Herschenfeld, Becca A. Lewis, Andrew Parella, Robert Roccatta and 664 00:46:18,196 --> 00:46:21,996 Speaker 1: Nick Saxton. The Last Archive is a production of Pushkin Industries. 665 00:46:22,156 --> 00:46:25,996 Speaker 1: At Pushkin. Thanks to Jacob Weisberg, Heather Fain, John Schnarz, 666 00:46:26,236 --> 00:46:30,196 Speaker 1: Carl Migliori, Christina Sullivan, Eric Sandler, Emily Rostick, Maggie Taylor, 667 00:46:30,476 --> 00:46:34,036 Speaker 1: Maya Kanig and Daniella Lacan. Special thanks to Simon Leak 668 00:46:34,076 --> 00:46:36,796 Speaker 1: and Oliver Leek. Thanks also to Edward J. Larson for 669 00:46:36,916 --> 00:46:39,916 Speaker 1: his incredible book Summer for the Gods and for answering 670 00:46:39,996 --> 00:46:42,596 Speaker 1: questions about the trial for this episode. Many of Our 671 00:46:42,596 --> 00:46:44,676 Speaker 1: sound effects are from Harry Jenette Junior and the Star 672 00:46:44,796 --> 00:46:48,276 Speaker 1: Janette Foundation. If you like the show, please remember to rate, share, 673 00:46:48,356 --> 00:46:51,916 Speaker 1: and review. To find more Pushkin podcasts, listen on the 674 00:46:51,996 --> 00:46:56,036 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. 675 00:46:56,916 --> 00:46:57,796 Speaker 1: I'm Jill Lapour.