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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, Ready or not, twenty twenty four is here,

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Speaker 1: and we here at Breaking Points, are already thinking of

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Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election.

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Speaker 2: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade

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Speaker 2: the studio ad staff give you, guys, the best independent.

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Speaker 3: Coverage that is possible.

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Speaker 2: If you like what we're all about, it just means

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Speaker 2: the absolute world to have your support.

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Speaker 3: But enough with that, let's get to the show. Good morning,

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Speaker 3: and welcome to Breaking Points. It's twenty twenty four, Crystal,

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Speaker 3: Happy New.

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Speaker 4: Year, Happy new Year.

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Speaker 1: I can't say that I feel great about what's coming

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Speaker 1: on it's in twenty to twenty four, but ready or not,

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Speaker 1: here we go, and we do have a lot to

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Speaker 1: talk about in.

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Speaker 4: The show this morning.

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Speaker 1: Some major things unfolding in Israel, a huge court decision

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Speaker 1: that could trigger a constitutional crisis, and this comes as

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Speaker 1: they've actually announced they are recalling some troops from Gaza,

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Speaker 1: so we will tell you what all of that means.

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Speaker 1: We also have major attacks in Ukraine, as the West

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Speaker 1: could be laying the groundwork to potentially try to come

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Speaker 1: to some sort of negotiated solution there since things are

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Speaker 1: not going particularly well. We have another state that is

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Speaker 1: trying to kick Trump off of the ballot, and obviously, look,

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Speaker 1: the Iowa caucuses are in weeks, which is absolutely insane

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Speaker 1: to me. So things are coming down to the wire here.

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Speaker 1: We've got Biden getting some dire poll numbers from MSNBC

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Speaker 1: of all places, and Sager making a little bit of

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Speaker 1: news with his Tucker Carlson interview, Tucker coming after Ben Shapiro.

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Speaker 4: So I'm actually really interested.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to get your thoughts on all of that, because,

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Speaker 1: as I was saying to you, I don't really have

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Speaker 1: a dog in that fight.

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Speaker 3: Girl shows are fun. But Scager really did do the

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Speaker 3: impossible and made news over the Holiday bank. It took

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Speaker 3: a lot, but he did it.

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Speaker 4: People are very very interested in that interview.

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Speaker 1: So we will show you that and talk a little

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Speaker 1: bit about all of the fallout. But first let's start

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Speaker 1: with what is going on in Israel. Put this up

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Speaker 1: on the screen. This is a huge development. The Israeli

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Speaker 1: military announcing a partial draw down. This is the headline

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Speaker 1: from the New York Times. Israel says it will pull

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Speaker 1: several brigades from the Gaza strip. Let me just read

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Speaker 1: you a little bit of this report. Israeli military announced

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Speaker 1: on Monday it will begin withdrawing several thousand troops from Gaza,

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Speaker 1: at least temporarily, in what would be the most significant

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Speaker 1: publicly announced pullback since the war began. They cited a

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Speaker 1: growing toll on the Israeli economy. I'm going to tell

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Speaker 1: you a little bit more about that in a minute.

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Speaker 1: Following nearly three months of wartime mobilization, Daniel Hagari, the

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Speaker 1: Israeli military spokesman, emphasized the move to demobilize some soldiers

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Speaker 1: did not indicate any compromise on Israel's intention to continue fighting,

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Speaker 1: and he did not mention the American request to scale back.

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Speaker 1: He indicated some will be called back to service in

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Speaker 1: the coming year. Still, the fighting remains intense across Gaza,

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Speaker 1: and some of the details here they say we're servis

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Speaker 1: from At least two brigades will be sent home this week,

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Speaker 1: and three brigades will be taken back for training. They

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Speaker 1: vary in size, up to roughly four thousand troops per brigade.

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Speaker 1: Israeli military does not disclose how many troops it has

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Speaker 1: deployed in Gaza, so hard to say exactly what this

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Speaker 1: means in the grand scheme of things could be shifting

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Speaker 1: to another phase. Something we've looked at here before on

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Speaker 1: the show is just how you know what huge cost

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Speaker 1: this war is imposing on the Israeli economy. Of course,

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Speaker 1: it's nothing compared to the suffering that Gazans are experiencing.

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Speaker 1: But we know in terms of their stated goal of

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Speaker 1: destroying Hamas, even by their own very rosy estimates of

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Speaker 1: they say they've killed roughly eight thousand Hamas fighters. Well,

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Speaker 1: Hamas had a fighting force of roughly thirty thousand people,

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Speaker 1: and we know they haven't announced that they've been able

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Speaker 1: to take out any of their top targets in terms

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Speaker 1: of Hamas leadership, So they are nowhere close to their

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Speaker 1: stated goal which always seemed, you know, to many analysts

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Speaker 1: to be completely impossible, of taking out Hamas and destroying

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Speaker 1: Hamas completely. And we do know also on the ground,

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Speaker 1: Hamas continues to release their propaganda fighting videos and they

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Speaker 1: continue to have the ability to shoot rockets into Israel.

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Speaker 1: So they are not you know, they're not in any

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Speaker 1: kind of notable disarray. Let's go ahead and put this

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Speaker 1: up on the screen. This is the latest Hamas propaganda

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Speaker 1: fighting video that you can see they're using a tunnel.

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Speaker 4: Here, they see a tank, they're.

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Speaker 1: Able to put this explosive on the tank, and they've

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Speaker 1: got their sort of trademark little red arrow there showing

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Speaker 1: their target and putting this explosive device onto the tank,

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Speaker 1: and then you're about to see it detonate. So in

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Speaker 1: any case intense fighting going on, they have been able

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Speaker 1: to exact some casualties from the Israeli military. And you

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Speaker 1: also have, as I was mentioning, major economic pressure on Israel.

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Speaker 1: Part of that comes from the Huthi's ability to hold

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Speaker 1: up shipping in the Red Sea. You are going to

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Speaker 1: talk a little bit more of that in a minute,

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Speaker 1: but put this Washington Post report up on the screen

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Speaker 1: and then, Emily, I want to get your reaction. We've

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Speaker 1: got a report saying that gross domestic product is going

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Speaker 1: to fall from three percent growth to one percent in

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty four. May sound like not a lot, but

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Speaker 1: that is actually really significant, huge impact on Israel's high

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Speaker 1: tech sector. The as many of the individuals who've been

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Speaker 1: called up to you know, who are in the reserve

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Speaker 1: Forses who've been called up work in the high tech sector.

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Speaker 1: Not only are they paying for those reservists, the bombs

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Speaker 1: and the bullets. They're also supporting two hundred thousand evacuees

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Speaker 1: who have been displaced from Israeli villages. They're being housed,

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Speaker 1: they're being fed in hotels, all at government expense. You

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Speaker 1: have tourism which has completely flatlined, Tel Aviv beaches and

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Speaker 1: the Old City in Jerusalem bereft of foreigners. Christmas celebrations

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Speaker 1: in Bethlehem in the occupied West Bank were canceled. Construction,

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Speaker 1: which is very dependent on Palestinian labor, that has all

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Speaker 1: come to a near holt. They've suspended the work permits

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Speaker 1: of more than one hundred thousand Palestinians. So the sort

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Speaker 1: of labor force that does a lot of the jobs

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Speaker 1: that Israeli citizens don't want to do is not being

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Speaker 1: permitted to come in. So those industries have really taken

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Speaker 1: a huge and economists have estimated the war has cost

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Speaker 1: the government about eighteen billion dollars. That's about two hundred

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Speaker 1: and twenty million dollars a day. So Emily, that's part

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Speaker 1: of what they're citing in their decision to announce this

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Speaker 1: partial drawdown.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think it's also worth remembering that the

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Speaker 3: Biden administration for the last month or so has been

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Speaker 3: anticipating publicly or saying that its best goal for Israel

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Speaker 3: in the new year is exactly what the New York

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Speaker 3: Times headline that you read from essentially said, is a

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Speaker 3: scaling back of the invasion, if not indefinite pause of

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Speaker 3: the invasion. That's basically exactly what Joe Biden, what we

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Speaker 3: were hearing in press reports, what Joe Biden had been

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Speaker 3: telling Netnyahu behind the scenes, is that the timeline is

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Speaker 3: that as soon as the new year rules around, this

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Speaker 3: invasion of Gaza should be scaled back significantly. So I

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Speaker 3: think it's worth remembering that, and also worth remembering the

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Speaker 3: political pressures on net and Yah, who at home, I

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Speaker 3: think get papered over in domestic American press. He has

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Speaker 3: this wide spectrum of pressures from people within his own government,

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Speaker 3: from members of the public and chrysl We're actually about

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Speaker 3: to talk about some of the political reality that Netanyah

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Speaker 3: who faces domestically when it comes to the legal landscape

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Speaker 3: in Israel. The economic points are so so well taken.

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Speaker 3: That's another thing. It's easy to forget how disruptive this

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Speaker 3: the operation has been since October seventh to the daily

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Speaker 3: lives of thousands and thousands of Israelis and how disruptive

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Speaker 3: it has been to the entire country. So the pressures

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Speaker 3: in Netanyaho are just immense. So it's not at all

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Speaker 3: surprising that Israel made this decision. But to your point,

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Speaker 3: we're going to see what it actually means over the

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Speaker 3: course of the next couple of days and then you know,

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Speaker 3: into the future as well.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a really important point. Just because they are

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Speaker 1: drawing down some number of troops does not mean that

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Speaker 1: the results will be any less brutal and deadly for

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Speaker 1: Palestinians in Gaza, because we know that the air assault,

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Speaker 1: the bombardment that they've faced, which is now completely destroyed

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Speaker 1: northern Gaza.

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Speaker 4: I mean, it's completely uninhabitable.

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Speaker 1: You know, there's barely any civilian infrastructure left, houses, apartment buildings, schools, hospitals,

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Speaker 1: et cetera.

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Speaker 4: And the south is not much better off.

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Speaker 1: This has also been one of the most deadly periods

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Speaker 1: actually in Israel's assault on Gaza. So the fact that

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Speaker 1: they're withdrawing troops doesn't necessarily mean that the results are

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Speaker 1: going to be any less brutal for Palestinians who and

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Speaker 1: we're going to talk about this in a little bit more,

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Speaker 1: half of whom are now facing starvation conditions. But to

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Speaker 1: your point, Emily, about the incredible pressures facing Net and

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Speaker 1: Yahoo and in Israeli society, which frankly is in sort

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Speaker 1: of chaos and disarray.

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Speaker 4: Put this up on the screen.

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Speaker 1: So the judicial reform that critics call a judicial coup,

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Speaker 1: that who and his governing coalition had pushed through has

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Speaker 1: now been struck down by the Supreme Court. Now, this

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Speaker 1: was all about these sort of balance of powers between

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Speaker 1: the judicial branch and the legislative branch, led of course

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Speaker 1: by Netnyahu and the Lukud party, and they attempted to

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Speaker 1: undercut some of the judiciaries power and the Supreme Court's

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Speaker 1: power in particular. The Supreme Court now saying no, we

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Speaker 1: don't accept that and striking it down in a narrow decision.

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Speaker 1: Let me go ahead and read you a little bit

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Speaker 1: of this report so you can get a sense of

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Speaker 1: the crisis. They say, in a momentous ruling that could

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Speaker 1: ignite a constitutional crisis. Israel Supreme Court on Monday struck

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Speaker 1: down a law passed by bb Netnyaho's right wing government

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Speaker 1: that was meant to limit the courts on powers by

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Speaker 1: majority eight judges to seven. It's likely to rekindle the

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Speaker 1: grave domestic situation that began a year ago over the

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Speaker 1: government's judicial overhaul plan, which sparked mass protests that brought

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Speaker 1: the country to a near standstill at times, even as

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Speaker 1: Israel is at war. In Gaza, you have the Lacud

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Speaker 1: party calling the Supreme Court's decision in opposition to the

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Speaker 1: nation's desire for unity, especially in a time of war.

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Speaker 1: And then you have a parliamentary opposition leader, Yayr Lapede,

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Speaker 1: hailing the court for quote faithfully fulfilling its duty to

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Speaker 1: protect the.

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Speaker 4: People of Israel.

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Speaker 1: And the reason that this is really tied into both

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Speaker 1: October seventh and this war effort is I mean Netnahoo

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Speaker 1: has almost no support in the country at this point,

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Speaker 1: not on the right, not on the quote unquote left

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Speaker 1: liberal anywhere, and part of that comes from a sense

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Speaker 1: that by pushing through these reforms, which were incredibly divisive

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Speaker 1: and also meant to attempt to get him off the

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Speaker 1: hook for corruption charges that he was facing, that they

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Speaker 1: really lost sight of the security situation. You had troops

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Speaker 1: who were moved from that area near Gaza that was

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Speaker 1: most aggressively attacked on Actober seventh to the West Bank

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Speaker 1: or near the West Bank to sort of placate his

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Speaker 1: far right coalition partners. You have this list of security failures.

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Speaker 1: There was just a big New York Times expose actually

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Speaker 1: on how even on the day of October seventh, the

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Speaker 1: IDF was in complete disarray, leaving ordinary people to try

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Speaker 1: to fend for themselves for hours and hours and hours.

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Speaker 1: And the sense was that this judicial reform, which really

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Speaker 1: tore the country in two, had distracted them to the

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Speaker 1: extent that not only did they fail to anticipate October seventh,

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Speaker 1: but they were then unable to respond on that day.

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Speaker 1: So that's part of how this is all tied in.

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Speaker 1: And also, of course Emily you know, really paus into

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Speaker 1: question the ability to maintain any sort of unity across

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Speaker 1: the country and among the citizenry because this is such

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Speaker 1: an incredibly divisive, difficult issue.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Another thing that I think has been underplayed in the

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Speaker 3: Western press is the amount of criticism that Yaho has faced,

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Speaker 3: and even you know, sort of from the coalition, even

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Speaker 3: from sort of the far right members allies at points

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Speaker 3: with Benjamin Yahoo. Since October seventh, it has been brutal

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Speaker 3: hostages that have been returned, the families of hostages who

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Speaker 3: have not been returned. There have been really bad leaks

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Speaker 3: out of some meetings that net Yahoo has had. There's

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Speaker 3: been immense displeasure that he hasn't met with everyone. I

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Speaker 3: think one meeting in a few weeks back was capped

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Speaker 3: at fifteen people something like that, and so he wasn't

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Speaker 3: able at that particular meeting to confer with all of

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Speaker 3: the families. And all of this has created a really

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Speaker 3: bad domestic picture for net and Yahoo. And to your point,

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Speaker 3: this was passed by parliament in July, supported by people

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Speaker 3: like net Yaho. Israel does have a very very powerful court,

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Speaker 3: and reading from an old New York Times article before

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Speaker 3: October seventh, they say, supporters of the measure, which Parliament

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Speaker 3: this is at the time, is expected to vote on

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Speaker 3: next Monday, presented as a boon for democracy, a modest

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Speaker 3: limit on the ways in which an elected government can

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Speaker 3: be stymied by unelected judges who will in any case

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Speaker 3: they'll have other tools to overrule ministers. So that's what

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Speaker 3: this was essentially about, that the Court could say nope

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Speaker 3: on this definition of reasonableness. We will not robber stamp

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Speaker 3: this ministerial appointment. And for some people, they say that's

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Speaker 3: reducing judicial oversight for Net and Yahoo and his allies,

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Speaker 3: they say, actually, that's really important to kind of push

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Speaker 3: back on this idea of unelected judges. And the entire

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Speaker 3: debate was royal in the country. There were mass protests

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Speaker 3: that you mentioned, Crystal and people certainly remember. And so

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Speaker 3: this is a really really difficult domestic situation for Net

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Speaker 3: and Yahoo. It is not there is not a united

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Speaker 3: front at home or even among his allies abroad about

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Speaker 3: what Israel should do going forward, and it raises maxive

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Speaker 3: questions about you know, people talk about, and myself included,

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Speaker 3: what is eradicating Hamas mean? What kind of comes up

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Speaker 3: in that vacuum? You know, say the eight thousand number

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Speaker 3: is accurate. So you've gotten rid of a third of

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Speaker 3: Hamas fighters and a whole lot of the infrastructure. Okay,

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Speaker 3: So what is what is Israel going to do in

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Speaker 3: future steps in the war Net Yahoo or not? What

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Speaker 3: is the plan? What does the is really government look

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Speaker 3: like in the next two years, let alone five years.

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Speaker 3: These things are really unsettled.

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Speaker 1: Right now, absolutely, and as much as the country has

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Speaker 1: really been porn into by these judicial reforms or judicial

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Speaker 1: coup attempt to strip power from the judiciary. You know,

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Speaker 1: in other areas, the country is very unified. And actually, guys,

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Speaker 1: if you could put the last element in this block

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Speaker 1: up a eleven a poll that shows overwhelmingly Jewish Israelis

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Speaker 1: in particular, they say they're not concerned about Palestinian suffering.

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Speaker 1: They don't think that Palestinian suffering should be considered in

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Speaker 1: terms of planning the war effort. Eighty one percent of

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Speaker 1: Israeli Jews say it should either be not considered at

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Speaker 1: all or considered very little.

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Speaker 4: Total opposite view from Arab.

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Speaker 1: Israelis have a complete counterpoint, emily appropriate counterpoint view there.

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Speaker 1: And we've also seen polling, of course about overwhelmingly, especially

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Speaker 1: Jewish Israelis, they feel that the IDF, if anything, hasn't

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Speaker 1: been brutal enough. One point eight percent said that they

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Speaker 1: had gone too far in their assault on Gaza. There

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Speaker 1: was a huge number in favor of basically the ethnic

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Speaker 1: cleansing plan, which we're going to get to, as well

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Speaker 1: of quote unquote voluntary migration of Palestinians out of Gaza. Now,

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Speaker 1: how voluntary is a migration when your home has been

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Speaker 1: bombed and your children are being starved to death. We'll

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Speaker 1: talk about that again in just a moment, but huge,

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Speaker 1: huge developments. And just to give people a sense lastly

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Speaker 1: on this judicial reform and striking down that law by

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Speaker 1: the Supreme Court of how fraught this has been. There's

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Speaker 1: actually a lawmaker, a former cabinet member from Netnyahu's Lecud party,

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Speaker 1: Gallat distel At Barian. Sorry, I'm sure I said that

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Speaker 1: name wrong, who just apologized for being involved in this.

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Speaker 1: They said, I'm here sitting and telling you, the democratic

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Speaker 1: secular public, I sinned against you, I caused pain for you,

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Speaker 1: I caused you to fear for your lives, and I

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Speaker 1: am sorry for this. So it shows you how high

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Speaker 1: emotions are running that even someone who was involved in

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Speaker 1: this attempt said that they sinned against.

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Speaker 4: The liberal secular public.

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Speaker 1: Let's go and move on to another incredibly important part

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Speaker 1: of this story, which you know it's we just cannot

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Speaker 1: lose sight of, which is the risk of a larger

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Speaker 1: escalation into a regional war, and of the way that

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Speaker 1: our own troops have become directly implicated in what Israel

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Speaker 1: is doing here.

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Speaker 4: Put this up on the screen.

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Speaker 1: So the US just killed ten hoofies and they sunk

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Speaker 1: three ships after a Hoothy Red Sea attack, US helicopters

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Speaker 1: repelled an attack by Iran baktoothy militants on a Maersk

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Speaker 1: container vessel in the Red Sea.

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Speaker 4: Is that how you say that? I don't really know anyway.

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Speaker 1: It's a large shipping company in the Red Sea, sinking

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Speaker 1: three ships and killing ten militants, according to accounts by

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Speaker 1: Americans and Hoothy officials on Sunday. The naval battle occurred

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Speaker 1: around three point thirty GMT on Sunday, as the attackers

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Speaker 1: sought to board the Singapore flag Maersk Hengzhu Mersk and

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Speaker 1: USCOM said helicopters from the USS Eisenhower and USS gravely

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Speaker 1: joined the ship's security team and repelling the attackers after

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Speaker 1: receiving a distress call. Interestingly, the USS Eisenhower is actually

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Speaker 1: withdrawing from the region's been there from the beginning. Interesting note,

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Speaker 1: I believe it's the Eisenhower that's withdrawing. This comes as

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Speaker 1: put this up on the screen, and Iranian warship has

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Speaker 1: now entered the Red Sea. Ronz Albor's warship enter the

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Speaker 1: Red Sea a semi official news agency reported on Monday,

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Speaker 1: at a time of soaring tensions on the Key shipping

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Speaker 1: route amid the Israel Hamas warren attacks on vessels by forces,

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Speaker 1: allies to Tehran and the UK looking to get more

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Speaker 1: involved in these attacks on Huthi's and even floating direct

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Speaker 1: attacks air strikes on Huthi rebels put this next one up.

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Speaker 1: Britain is reportedly considering air strikes on Huthi rebels after

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Speaker 1: the US said it's navy sank three boats that have

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Speaker 1: been targeting a containership in the Red Sea Grant shops.

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Speaker 1: That Defense secretary said the government would not hesitate to

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Speaker 1: take direct action to prevent further attacks amid reports the

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Speaker 1: UK and US are preparing a joint statement to issue

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Speaker 1: a final warning to the Yameni group. Obviously, this is

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Speaker 1: massively significant. We are directly engaging and killing houthy militants.

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Speaker 1: We have put together this attempt at a coalition so

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Speaker 1: that we aren't the only ones who are being attacked

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Speaker 1: or facing these risks, but Emily, all of our allies

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Speaker 1: effectively have been extraordinarily reluctant. The coalition, such as it is,

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Speaker 1: is quite lackluster. Includes next to know Arab allies. There

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Speaker 1: were a number of countries who didn't want to publicly.

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Speaker 4: Be associated with it.

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Speaker 1: So there's the level of just the humiliation of the

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Speaker 1: US trying to pull something together here that ended up

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Speaker 1: not going very well and continues to not go very well.

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Speaker 1: You still have shipping basically blocked through this area of

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Speaker 1: the Red Sea, which is massively significant for global trade

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Speaker 1: and as applying pressure to global commerce, but in particular

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Speaker 1: Israeli commerce. But then you also have just the incredible

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Speaker 1: risk of this blowing up into something much larger than

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Speaker 1: it already is and dragging us much more directly into

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Speaker 1: these sorts of engagements. With so many of our troops

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Speaker 1: still in the region, we are huge risks that abound.

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Speaker 3: So many of our troops still in the region just

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Speaker 3: completely fanned out across the Middle East in ways that

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Speaker 3: have been highlighted over the past couple of months. People

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Speaker 3: didn't know that we had troops as broadly and prolifically

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Speaker 3: as we do across the reason, across the region, and

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Speaker 3: as many troops as we do across the region. But

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Speaker 3: it's always worth keeping in mind because it underscores to

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Speaker 3: your point, what a powder keg. This situation is and

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Speaker 3: we're going to talk about Ukraine shortly, but I think

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Speaker 3: it is really worth remembering that this is happening in

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Speaker 3: a split screen. That you know, one of the most

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Speaker 3: terrifying things after October seventh and since has been the

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Speaker 3: way that China, Russia, all of these different sort of

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Speaker 3: emerging blocks have responded to different threats and different events

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Speaker 3: that have cropped up over the course of the post

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Speaker 3: October seventh conflict. And that is really really scary stuff.

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Speaker 3: And what we are seeing in the naval sector here

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Speaker 3: is a lack of American control, a lack of control

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Speaker 3: among it. To your point, you know, our friends, people

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Speaker 3: who are at least are countries that are supposed to

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Speaker 3: be the friends of the US. We look Biden looks

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Speaker 3: completely out of control. And that's always been the case,

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Speaker 3: you know, when you see these group, scrappy groups, you know,

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Speaker 3: come in and up end our you know, our ability

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Speaker 3: to hold certain areas whatever it is since September eleventh.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it's it's always embarrassing when stuff like this happens.

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Speaker 3: But there seems to just be no cohesion in the

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Speaker 3: response here, and and that becomes clear and clear.

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Speaker 1: Every day, the US and Israel are basically on an

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Speaker 1: island in terms of world opinion, in terms of view

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Speaker 1: of Israel's assault on Gaza. And the longer that Israel's

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Speaker 1: attacks on Gaza continue, the more at risk not only

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Speaker 1: our troops are in the region are, but the more

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Speaker 1: at risk we are of getting pulled into this broader conflict.

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Speaker 1: And one of the updates that I did over the holiday,

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Speaker 1: I talked about the insanity of a former Israeli Prime

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Speaker 1: minister in the Wall Street Journal calling demanding that we

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Speaker 1: try to foment regime change in Iran outrageous, completely insane.

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Speaker 1: But you, of course have the typical hawks in the US,

401
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Speaker 1: people like Lindsay Graham, people like John Bolton out there

402
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Speaker 1: aggressively calling for US to directly attack Iran, even though Iran, yes,

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Speaker 1: they support Humas, Yes, of course they support the Huthies.

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Speaker 4: They were not directly.

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Speaker 1: Involved in planning October seventh. But you know, these warmongers,

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Speaker 1: they just use any excuse to try to get their

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Speaker 1: their favorite goal accomplished, which is a direct war with

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Speaker 1: the Run. You know, this ties into the Israeli domestic

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Speaker 1: political situation as well, because net Yaho is you know,

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Speaker 1: basically hated across the board in Israeli society. And the

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Speaker 1: only way that he's been able to hold on to

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Speaker 1: power and remain where he is as Prime Minister is

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Speaker 1: by continuing keeping this conflict going. And so he can say, listen, yes,

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Speaker 1: there are many questions that need to be answered about

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Speaker 1: the security situation, the intelligence failures leading up to October seventh,

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Speaker 1: but that's all for after the war. So he has

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Speaker 1: this incentive to keep this war going indefinitely. And he

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Speaker 1: also has an incentive and they've been making a lot

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Speaker 1: of noises and have been sort of laying the groundwork

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Speaker 1: to open up another full front with Hesbola in Lebanon

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Speaker 1: after they pull back in Gaza. So this is, you know,

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Speaker 1: massively risky. The Israeli you know, domestic political situation is

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Speaker 1: pushing them in the direction of actually wanting a broader war.

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Speaker 1: And we've seen no ability of Biden in the US

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Speaker 1: administration to push back on anything that Israel is doing,

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Speaker 1: including drawing us into this broader conflict, which we've already

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Speaker 1: by nature of our engagement here with the Hoho Thies,

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Speaker 1: which we've already been drawn into. I want to go

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Speaker 1: ahead and turn for a moment here because I never

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Speaker 1: want to lose sight of this, of the immense suffering

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Speaker 1: that is unfolding in Gaza right now, which is really

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Speaker 1: unlike anything else that we have seen in this century.

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Speaker 1: Put this up on the screen. We now have a

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Speaker 1: report from the UN that half of Gazan's are in

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Speaker 1: danger of starvation. They are starving something like ninety percent,

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Speaker 1: reports that they regularly go a full day without eating anything,

437
00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:51,199
Speaker 1: and huge numbers are at risk due to the collapse

438
00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:55,159
Speaker 1: of the healthcare system Israel targeting hospitals both in the

439
00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:58,840
Speaker 1: north and the south of Gaza. Very few remain in operation.

440
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:02,240
Speaker 1: There's very lit in the way of medical supplies as well.

441
00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:05,199
Speaker 1: This tweets as we could see almost a quarter of

442
00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:08,800
Speaker 1: Gaza's population, close to half a million human beings dying

443
00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:12,480
Speaker 1: within a year, largely deaths from preventable health causes and

444
00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:15,360
Speaker 1: collapse of the medical system. It's a crude estimate, but

445
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:18,480
Speaker 1: one that is data driven. Let me read you a

446
00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:21,000
Speaker 1: little bit of what's going on here. They say tragically,

447
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:23,800
Speaker 1: the nearly unprecedented death and injury we've seen so far

448
00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:27,679
Speaker 1: as likely to only be the beginning. From looking at

449
00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:31,480
Speaker 1: similar conflicts across the world public health experts know we

450
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:34,159
Speaker 1: are likely to see more children dying from preventable disease

451
00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:37,760
Speaker 1: than from bullets and bombs. The World Health Organization spokespersons

452
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:41,080
Speaker 1: said diarrhea rates among children in refugee like camps in

453
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:44,919
Speaker 1: Gaza were already in November. Early November, this was a

454
00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:49,080
Speaker 1: while ago. Now more than one hundred times normal levels,

455
00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:52,880
Speaker 1: and there are effectively no treatments available. Children can become

456
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:56,880
Speaker 1: dehydrated and die quickly. Diarrheal diseases are the second leading

457
00:25:56,920 --> 00:25:59,880
Speaker 1: cause of death in children under five worldwide. Their cause

458
00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:04,080
Speaker 1: contaminated water sources, lack of access to oral rehydration fluids,

459
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:07,840
Speaker 1: upper respiratory infections, chicken pox, and painful skin conditions have

460
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:11,240
Speaker 1: also increased. Their fears that the recent floods may result

461
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:14,240
Speaker 1: in untreated sewage mixing with fresh water used for drinking

462
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:17,840
Speaker 1: and cooking and cause a cholera outbreak. This is something

463
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:22,080
Speaker 1: Ryan's been flagging for a while now that oftentimes in

464
00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:25,639
Speaker 1: war zones, especially when you have you know, all of

465
00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:29,840
Speaker 1: the sanitation, basic sanitation has been destroyed, you have people

466
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:35,920
Speaker 1: living in these crowded camp situations that oftentimes the disease

467
00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:41,120
Speaker 1: that spreads is even deadlier than the bombs and the bullets,

468
00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:45,440
Speaker 1: which have been plenty deadly enough. So incredibly dire situation

469
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:48,640
Speaker 1: unfolding there with no end in sight. Put this next

470
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:51,280
Speaker 1: piece up on the screen. You'll remember, in the early

471
00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:54,440
Speaker 1: days after October seventh, there was a lot of discussion

472
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:58,040
Speaker 1: of how the Hamas attack was equivalent to fifteen nine

473
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:01,239
Speaker 1: to elevens for a nation of Israel's size. Well, they

474
00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:03,440
Speaker 1: sort of stopped doing this nine to eleven math now

475
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:06,560
Speaker 1: because the equivalent figure for Gaza, where more than twenty

476
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:10,080
Speaker 1: thousand people have now been killed, is approaching nine hundred

477
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:14,760
Speaker 1: nine elevens. I actually recommend people read this entire Mother

478
00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:18,000
Speaker 1: Jones article How Joe Biden became America's top Israel Hawk,

479
00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:21,720
Speaker 1: because it digs into the fact that he has long

480
00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:26,760
Speaker 1: been one of the most hawkish with regards to Israel,

481
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:30,679
Speaker 1: one of the greatest allies of everyone every Israeli Prime minister,

482
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:35,520
Speaker 1: including Netnyahuo. How he actually actively undermined some Obama and

483
00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:40,240
Speaker 1: Hillary Clinton initiatives to back net Yahoo during a time

484
00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:43,240
Speaker 1: when those relations were very fraught. So it's incredibly interesting

485
00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:46,600
Speaker 1: and revealing history for understanding how and why Joe Biden

486
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:49,439
Speaker 1: is doing what he is and giving them unconditional support

487
00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:50,040
Speaker 1: in this moment.

488
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:53,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I'm curious how this evolves because again worth

489
00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:56,720
Speaker 3: remembering that the Biden administration was telegraphing through the press

490
00:27:56,760 --> 00:27:59,119
Speaker 3: and otherwise that they wanted in the new year, Israel

491
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:03,040
Speaker 3: to scale down this invasion. And we don't know because

492
00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:06,720
Speaker 3: again Biden is facing immense pressure in the middle of

493
00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:10,600
Speaker 3: this non primary primary, but Democrats around the country are

494
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:14,440
Speaker 3: facing immense pressure and electioneer as well over their support

495
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:17,800
Speaker 3: for net Yahoo and net Yahu's government and the Israeli

496
00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 3: military and all of its sort of strategic decisions. And

497
00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:26,000
Speaker 3: so that has been a point of contention between Biden

498
00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:29,160
Speaker 3: and net Yahoo. And where does this go. If Biden's

499
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:31,600
Speaker 3: pressure will learn more in the days to come, If

500
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:35,640
Speaker 3: the Biden administration's pressure was absolutely instrumental in what proves

501
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:40,680
Speaker 3: to be a long term and definite sort of pause

502
00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:44,920
Speaker 3: in this invasion, that's a very different question. It's a

503
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:47,400
Speaker 3: different side of Biden we'll see potentially. And the Mother

504
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:50,160
Speaker 3: Jones article highlights how this would be a different side

505
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:53,200
Speaker 3: of Biden when it comes to net and Yahoo, and

506
00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:56,320
Speaker 3: it just highlights the political pressures here at home, the

507
00:28:56,320 --> 00:29:02,680
Speaker 3: political pressures actually abroad places the United Nations, at Allied

508
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:07,200
Speaker 3: countries that think differently and have always approached this conflict

509
00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:11,360
Speaker 3: differently than the United States. And that raises one more

510
00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:13,680
Speaker 3: huge question question, Crystal. And this is where the rubber

511
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:18,360
Speaker 3: really meets the road for me, the eradication of Hamas.

512
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:21,080
Speaker 3: When you're looking at that nine to eleven number in particular,

513
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:25,680
Speaker 3: this stands out that the aftermath of our response to

514
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:28,920
Speaker 3: nine to eleven, as many people have highlighted since October seventh,

515
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:34,000
Speaker 3: was a lot of power vacuums that actually allowed really

516
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:38,680
Speaker 3: radical movements to fester. And is that what is being

517
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:41,200
Speaker 3: set up? Like what is the plan? Because there really

518
00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:44,080
Speaker 3: is not going to be a response that fully eradicates

519
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:46,760
Speaker 3: Hamas from Israel, and it sure as heck is not

520
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:52,320
Speaker 3: going to eradicate that kind of underlying ideology and a

521
00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:56,760
Speaker 3: long term, drawn out response Crystal, along the lines that

522
00:29:56,800 --> 00:30:00,960
Speaker 3: you just mentioned, the humanitarian concerns for civilians when it

523
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:06,280
Speaker 3: comes to wide scale illness and starvation. What does that

524
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:11,080
Speaker 3: do in Israel's interest going forward? This is a lesson

525
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 3: that many countries have had to learn over the last

526
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:18,640
Speaker 3: several decades about what happens in inhuman power vacuums and

527
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:22,080
Speaker 3: whether it is ultimately in the interest of a country

528
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:24,480
Speaker 3: like Israel or a country of the United States for

529
00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:29,360
Speaker 3: that situation to continue long term, and that's just looming

530
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:30,760
Speaker 3: over all of this right now.

531
00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:33,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's no doubt that they are radicalizing many more

532
00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:36,120
Speaker 1: than they are eradicating.

533
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:37,719
Speaker 4: There's just no doubt about that.

534
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:43,360
Speaker 1: And you can see through the history of recent Israeli

535
00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:48,800
Speaker 1: politics that when Palestinians feel that they have a chance

536
00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:54,520
Speaker 1: at a peaceful resolution through negotiation, support for armed resistance

537
00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:59,720
Speaker 1: and radical groups like Hamas drops, and when they don't

538
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:04,080
Speaker 1: feel that they have that opportunity or that possibility, support

539
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:08,640
Speaker 1: for Hamas and other radical groups rises. And we already

540
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:11,280
Speaker 1: see you know, obviously it's very difficult in Gaza to

541
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:14,120
Speaker 1: conduct a pull at the moment, but there's indications that

542
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:17,600
Speaker 1: support for Hamas has actually gone up during this time period.

543
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:18,960
Speaker 4: And in the West Bank it's.

544
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:21,360
Speaker 1: Very clear where you know, they don't have to deal

545
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 1: with the failures of Hamas governance and they are suffering,

546
00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:27,000
Speaker 1: don't get me wrong, but not in the at the

547
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:30,440
Speaker 1: level or extent that Palestinians and Gaza are right now.

548
00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:33,840
Speaker 1: And support for Hamas as opposed to the Palestinian authority,

549
00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:38,120
Speaker 1: which is you know, basically a collaborator with the occupying force.

550
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:41,840
Speaker 1: Support for Hamas has skyrocketed. So in terms of quote

551
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:46,920
Speaker 1: unquote eradicating Hamas, they have utterly failed and only made

552
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:50,880
Speaker 1: the situation worse, at great risk to their own population

553
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:53,200
Speaker 1: and at great risk to US US as well, because

554
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:56,480
Speaker 1: these bombs that are being dropped close you know, somewhere

555
00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:58,840
Speaker 1: around thirty thousand at this point, a majority of which

556
00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:03,600
Speaker 1: are quote unquote dumb bombs being dropped indiscriminately on civilian populations.

557
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 4: These are made in America, and we.

558
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:08,120
Speaker 1: Continue to ship them, We continue to expedite, in fact,

559
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:13,040
Speaker 1: military weaponry to Israel, even as our own president admits

560
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:16,320
Speaker 1: that they are engaged in quote unquote indiscriminate bombing, which

561
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:18,840
Speaker 1: is of course a war crime. The last piece I

562
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:22,440
Speaker 1: want to bring you this morning is, you know, it's

563
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:25,440
Speaker 1: been pretty clear for a while now what the ultimate

564
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:30,040
Speaker 1: goal of net Yahoo and his coalition partners are, what

565
00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:33,640
Speaker 1: their goal is for the quote unquote day after in Gaza,

566
00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:36,320
Speaker 1: and the goal is ethnic cleansing. And now they are

567
00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:38,640
Speaker 1: saying it much more clearly. So put this up on

568
00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:42,880
Speaker 1: the screen. This is one of the ministers in the

569
00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:45,920
Speaker 1: net Yahoo government, Bezaliel Smotrich.

570
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:48,680
Speaker 4: He says that Gaza is a ghetto. If we act.

571
00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:54,000
Speaker 1: Strategically, they will emigrate, and we, we Israelis, will live there.

572
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:57,440
Speaker 1: We won't let two millions stay with one hundred to

573
00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:00,760
Speaker 1: two hundred thousand in Gaza. The quote day after will

574
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:04,479
Speaker 1: be different. They want to leave. They've been living in

575
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:09,120
Speaker 1: a ghetto for seventy five years. Yeah, I'm sure many

576
00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:12,080
Speaker 1: do want to leave an active war zone where they

577
00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:14,680
Speaker 1: are being bombed and starved to death and their homes

578
00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:18,920
Speaker 1: are being destroyed. You also had the National Security Minister

579
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:21,240
Speaker 1: Itamar Ben Gavier on Monday said the.

580
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:23,840
Speaker 4: Net Yahoo government should quote encourage.

581
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:27,920
Speaker 1: The migration of Gosens out of the Palestinian enclave. He says,

582
00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:32,400
Speaker 1: quote this is a correct, just, moral and humane solution,

583
00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:37,040
Speaker 1: during a meeting of his Jewish Power Party in Jerusalem.

584
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:41,160
Speaker 1: So these are two ministers in the net Yahoo government.

585
00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:45,600
Speaker 1: These are not nobody's These are incredibly influential voices within

586
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:50,760
Speaker 1: his coalition, and they're saying outright that, you know, pushing

587
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:55,680
Speaker 1: Gosins permanently out of the Gaza strip is the ultimate goal.

588
00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:58,640
Speaker 1: There's been a plan that has been floated reportedly in

589
00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:02,280
Speaker 1: the US with some by partisan interest to use US

590
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:07,880
Speaker 1: AID dollars to basically force local Arab allies of the

591
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:11,920
Speaker 1: United States to take in this refugee population. And so

592
00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:15,600
Speaker 1: you know, this has been again, this has been pretty

593
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:18,720
Speaker 1: obvious for a while, but now there's not even any

594
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:25,080
Speaker 1: any denials around it. It's coming directly from top officials themselves.

595
00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:28,359
Speaker 1: And you know, I think every US politician and every

596
00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:31,239
Speaker 1: US media figure needs to be asking every US politician

597
00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:33,520
Speaker 1: about whether or not they support this and what their

598
00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:34,560
Speaker 1: plan is to stop it.

599
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:38,640
Speaker 3: Another reminder of the biggest disconnect in the war, which

600
00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:41,360
Speaker 3: is that Joe Biden publicly says he believes in a

601
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:45,279
Speaker 3: two state solution. Joe Biden's government is instrumental in the

602
00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:48,600
Speaker 3: prosecution of this war without the United States, not just

603
00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:50,640
Speaker 3: you know, we supply about twenty percent of their annual

604
00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:55,719
Speaker 3: military budget. But the question is munitions. So when Joe

605
00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:58,440
Speaker 3: Biden's government is prosecuting this war and the US is

606
00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:03,520
Speaker 3: prosecuting this war and Yahoo says, you know, for years

607
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:06,120
Speaker 3: he does not believe in a two state solution, that

608
00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:10,560
Speaker 3: disconnect is not sustainable and it is not a tenable

609
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:15,840
Speaker 3: situation to lay or let's say, justification to lay waste

610
00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:21,480
Speaker 3: to civilian populations. If the two major powers involved in

611
00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:26,000
Speaker 3: the war are on completely this is not a minor difference.

612
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:29,839
Speaker 3: They are on completely different pages in completely different universes

613
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:32,759
Speaker 3: when it comes to the end goal, and that is

614
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:34,959
Speaker 3: a recipe for disaster. And I say that as somebody

615
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:37,840
Speaker 3: who actually believes that there was a real necessity for

616
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:41,319
Speaker 3: a military response after October seventh. It shouldn't have been

617
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:44,840
Speaker 3: a cease fire October eighth, October ninth, October tenth. But

618
00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:49,200
Speaker 3: you cannot lay waste to civilian populations with that level

619
00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:53,040
Speaker 3: of a disconnect, because it means that you are intentionally

620
00:35:53,600 --> 00:36:00,160
Speaker 3: driving headfirst into a quagmire and causing suffering without a

621
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:07,319
Speaker 3: clear path out of that destruction. It's embarrassing that we

622
00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:10,680
Speaker 3: are involved in a conflict where there's that little clarity

623
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:13,840
Speaker 3: about what the end goal is that has caused and

624
00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:16,680
Speaker 3: is continuing to cause so much suffering. That's the thing

625
00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:21,560
Speaker 3: that really is among the most disgusting elements of all

626
00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:21,919
Speaker 3: of those.

627
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:26,759
Speaker 1: And yet that is not the only war that we

628
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:27,920
Speaker 1: are directly involved with.

629
00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:30,120
Speaker 4: Emily, No, it isn't crystal.

630
00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:34,480
Speaker 3: It's important to move on here to the increasing violence,

631
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:37,560
Speaker 3: escalating violence just over the last couple of days in Ukraine,

632
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:40,320
Speaker 3: and we were just talking about the conflict in Israel.

633
00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:43,200
Speaker 3: These things that are happening on a split screen. And

634
00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:47,360
Speaker 3: remember what a powder keg the world is right now,

635
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:49,480
Speaker 3: So strikes, we can put the first element up on

636
00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:55,239
Speaker 3: the screen here. CNN is reporting basically strikes began on Friday.

637
00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:57,480
Speaker 3: Russia has launched I'll just read from the article the

638
00:36:57,480 --> 00:37:00,680
Speaker 3: biggest air attack on Ukraine since the beginning of its

639
00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:04,680
Speaker 3: full scale invasion, which remember we are coming up on

640
00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:08,440
Speaker 3: the anniversary of this is from the Ukrainian military telling

641
00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:11,279
Speaker 3: CNN that quote. With an unprecedented number of drones and

642
00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:13,960
Speaker 3: missiles fired at targets across the country, They've killed at

643
00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:16,560
Speaker 3: least thirty one people and injured more than one hundred

644
00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:19,800
Speaker 3: and fifty others. The wave of attacks began overnight into

645
00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:23,120
Speaker 3: Friday and struck nationwide, with blasts reported in the capital

646
00:37:23,239 --> 00:37:26,000
Speaker 3: Kiva and well as well as at a maternity hospital

647
00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:28,680
Speaker 3: in the central city of Nipro and the eastern city

648
00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:31,840
Speaker 3: of Kharkiv, the southeastern port of Odessa, and the western

649
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:35,360
Speaker 3: city of Leviv, far from the front lines. It's also

650
00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:39,319
Speaker 3: worth emphasizing the strikes continued Friday afternoon. Ukraine's air force

651
00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:43,080
Speaker 3: said as a barrage of missiles targeted the northern Chikasi region,

652
00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:46,120
Speaker 3: with one hitting the city of Smila. Other missiles were

653
00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:51,400
Speaker 3: detected from Russia'skirsk region, heading towards the northeastern Ukrainian city

654
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:55,640
Speaker 3: of Sumi. The massive overnight assault cnn ADS comes just

655
00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:59,400
Speaker 3: days after Ukraine struck a Russian Navy landing ship in

656
00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:03,320
Speaker 3: Crimea on Tuesday, So this is all within the last week,

657
00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:06,480
Speaker 3: and the onslaught CNN continues also came shortly after Ukraine

658
00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:10,000
Speaker 3: received the last package of military aid from the United

659
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:14,960
Speaker 3: States until Congress approves the Biden administration's funding requests. Biden

660
00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:20,120
Speaker 3: is requesting another sixty billion dollars. We're already around one

661
00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:24,239
Speaker 3: hundred billion dollars into this, which Biden and Zally is

662
00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:26,359
Speaker 3: like to point out, what a bargain. It's about one

663
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:30,160
Speaker 3: percent of our annual GP GDP. So, as Lindsay Graham says,

664
00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:32,319
Speaker 3: you know you couldn't ask for a better return on

665
00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:35,920
Speaker 3: your investment. This is just all this is all just

666
00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:38,960
Speaker 3: a great deal for the United States of America. That

667
00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:44,040
Speaker 3: is front and center as Congress returns in the new year,

668
00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:46,239
Speaker 3: they're going to have to make all kinds of decisions.

669
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:49,759
Speaker 3: And you know, we heard Ryan and I talked to

670
00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:52,560
Speaker 3: the new chair of the Freedom Caucus, Bob Good just

671
00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:55,080
Speaker 3: a couple of weeks ago, who said straight up on

672
00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:58,680
Speaker 3: the show on Counterpoints that Ukraine AID is dead on

673
00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:02,520
Speaker 3: arrival because the Freedom Caucus has a huge ability to maneuver.

674
00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:04,480
Speaker 3: We saw that playout over the course of the last year,

675
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:07,320
Speaker 3: and they don't want Mike Johnson to basically give an

676
00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:10,960
Speaker 3: inch on Ukraine AID without also doing you know what's

677
00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:15,520
Speaker 3: basically impossible to see Biden compromising on the border. Another

678
00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:19,600
Speaker 3: thing worth emphasizing. The Polish military reported a quote unidentified

679
00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:24,480
Speaker 3: airborne object entering their airspace from Ukrainian territory early on

680
00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:28,080
Speaker 3: Friday morning. Their Chief of the General Staff said everything

681
00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:30,880
Speaker 3: indicated that a Russian missile had entered and then left

682
00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:36,520
Speaker 3: Polish airspace. That's from Polish reporting, basically, So another reminder

683
00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:38,880
Speaker 3: of what a powder keg this is crystal.

684
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:39,640
Speaker 4: Yeah.

685
00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:42,839
Speaker 1: Absolutely, it's easy to lose sight of what a dangerous

686
00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:47,759
Speaker 1: situation is continuing to unfold every day that that war continues,

687
00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:51,640
Speaker 1: and so you know, you have the looming specter of

688
00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:57,120
Speaker 1: Trump potentially coming back into office, and he is has

689
00:39:57,160 --> 00:40:02,440
Speaker 1: become very critical of our support for Ukraine even before that. Only,

690
00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:06,360
Speaker 1: as you're pointing out, you've got House Republicans in particular,

691
00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:11,279
Speaker 1: but Republicans more broadly who have become extremely skeptical of

692
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:15,160
Speaker 1: continuing the support, and they were unable to. You know,

693
00:40:15,239 --> 00:40:18,360
Speaker 1: the idea was, all right, we'll give Republicans some border

694
00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:22,560
Speaker 1: security money. Everybody apparently just wants to give Israel whatever

695
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:25,120
Speaker 1: they want, even though it's a wealthy country, and then

696
00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:27,000
Speaker 1: we'll stick the Ukraine Aid in there, and that's how

697
00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:28,000
Speaker 1: we'll try to get it through.

698
00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:30,320
Speaker 4: Well, maybe that'll still work, but maybe it won't.

699
00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:32,719
Speaker 1: It certainly didn't come together before they all left for

700
00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:36,279
Speaker 1: holiday breaks, so very very much in doubt. And then

701
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:40,920
Speaker 1: you also have internationally, the global seuth has always looked

702
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:43,000
Speaker 1: most of the world, frankly, has always looked at this

703
00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:47,080
Speaker 1: conflict differently than how it has been presented in the

704
00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:48,080
Speaker 1: Western press.

705
00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:50,400
Speaker 4: The Biden administration and.

706
00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:53,280
Speaker 1: Other people who love to talk about the international rules

707
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:56,120
Speaker 1: based order. They held this up as oh, this is

708
00:40:56,200 --> 00:40:59,200
Speaker 1: our fight for democracy, this is our fight against this

709
00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:03,840
Speaker 1: imperial power grab and might makes right by Russia. But

710
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:06,360
Speaker 1: now as this is unfolding, as you said it before, Emily,

711
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:10,520
Speaker 1: on a split screen, with this all out Israeli assault

712
00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:14,040
Speaker 1: on Gaza and a complete siege and a million people

713
00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:18,040
Speaker 1: in danger of starving and thousands of children killed and

714
00:41:18,239 --> 00:41:21,919
Speaker 1: journalists and civilian infrastructure destroyed. I mean, what Israel's doing

715
00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:24,080
Speaker 1: in Gaza makes what Russia has done in Ukraine look

716
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:27,520
Speaker 1: like child's play. As this is playing out, it just

717
00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:33,560
Speaker 1: becomes totally undeniable that all of this supposed US commitment

718
00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:38,040
Speaker 1: to the rules based order and to democracy and to

719
00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:42,840
Speaker 1: these values based commitments is all bullshit. And so you

720
00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:46,560
Speaker 1: had Medi Hassan pointing this out. Put this up on

721
00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:50,080
Speaker 1: the screen. I thought this was interesting, sparked a lot

722
00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:50,839
Speaker 1: of conversation.

723
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:52,560
Speaker 4: You can see Mehdi's tweet here.

724
00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:54,279
Speaker 1: He says, I challenge you to read this statement from

725
00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:56,680
Speaker 1: the White House today, but change the words Russia Ukraine

726
00:41:56,719 --> 00:41:59,239
Speaker 1: and putin to Israel, Gaza and Netnyah. Who go on,

727
00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:01,680
Speaker 1: do it see for yourself and let me read you

728
00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:05,200
Speaker 1: this what he actually said, The statement from Joe Biden

729
00:42:05,239 --> 00:42:08,680
Speaker 1: on Russia's aerial assault on Ukraine. Overnight, Russia launched its

730
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:11,160
Speaker 1: largest aerial assault on Ukraine since this war.

731
00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:11,520
Speaker 4: Began.

732
00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:14,719
Speaker 1: This massive bombardment used drones and missiles, including missiles with

733
00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:20,040
Speaker 1: hypersonic capability, to strike cities and civilian infrastructure all across Ukraine.

734
00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:23,800
Speaker 1: Strikes reportedly hit a maternity hospital, shopping mall, residential areas,

735
00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:27,200
Speaker 1: killing innocent people and injuring dozens. More stark reminder to

736
00:42:27,239 --> 00:42:29,759
Speaker 1: the world that after nearly two years of this devastating war,

737
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:33,799
Speaker 1: Putin's objective remains unchanged. He seeks to obliterate Ukraine and

738
00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:37,560
Speaker 1: subjugate its people. He must be stopped. Of course, none

739
00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:41,920
Speaker 1: of that emotional and clear language has ever been applied

740
00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:45,480
Speaker 1: to what Israel is doing on a much vaster, much

741
00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:50,239
Speaker 1: more devastating, devastating scale within Gaza. And you know this

742
00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:54,160
Speaker 1: is incredibly apparent to people around the world. You now

743
00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:56,280
Speaker 1: have put this up on the screen, the global seuth

744
00:42:56,600 --> 00:42:59,680
Speaker 1: effectively abandoning Ukraine. The UN was having a bad twenty

745
00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:03,160
Speaker 1: twenty three. Then came the war in Gaza. As I

746
00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:07,040
Speaker 1: mentioned before, there was already a different view in the

747
00:43:07,080 --> 00:43:10,239
Speaker 1: global South. However, they write the war between Israel and

748
00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:13,840
Speaker 1: Hamas has upended their calculations. The atrocity Samas committed on

749
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:16,759
Speaker 1: October seventh shook diplomats from all over the world, but

750
00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:20,520
Speaker 1: the ensuing war's massive humanitarian toll and US refusal to

751
00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:22,759
Speaker 1: support a ceasefire in Gaza over the past two months,

752
00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:26,080
Speaker 1: coupled with European states divided response, the war has alienated

753
00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:29,600
Speaker 1: the majority of you and members. Diplomats who previously backed

754
00:43:29,719 --> 00:43:33,520
Speaker 1: Ukraine in the General Assembly have indicated they will not

755
00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:36,640
Speaker 1: do so in the future. Out of frustration over the

756
00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:41,080
Speaker 1: west lack of solidarity with the Palestinians. Kieve quietly dropped

757
00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:45,040
Speaker 1: a planned resolution commemorating the Hilatamore, the Soviet era famine

758
00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:48,560
Speaker 1: in Ukraine manufactured by Stalin, as it became clear it

759
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:52,520
Speaker 1: would not secure strong majority support in the General Assembly.

760
00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:57,120
Speaker 1: So listen, much of the world, Emily has already felt

761
00:43:57,120 --> 00:43:59,759
Speaker 1: the US to be very hypocritical where it comes to

762
00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:03,480
Speaker 1: the our quote unquote commitment to the international rules based order.

763
00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:08,439
Speaker 1: You know, it's been quite clear for decades that we

764
00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:11,840
Speaker 1: apply these rules one and how we see fit, but

765
00:44:12,239 --> 00:44:16,239
Speaker 1: it has never been quite as stark and quite as

766
00:44:16,239 --> 00:44:18,520
Speaker 1: blatant as it is right.

767
00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:20,080
Speaker 4: Now in this situation.

768
00:44:20,760 --> 00:44:24,839
Speaker 1: So any attempt by the US going forward, I think

769
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:28,399
Speaker 1: from here on out, even after Israel is done doing

770
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:32,440
Speaker 1: what they're doing in Gaza. Any attempt by us to

771
00:44:32,640 --> 00:44:37,160
Speaker 1: use this language of morals and appeal to international rules

772
00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:38,799
Speaker 1: based order, it's dead.

773
00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:40,839
Speaker 4: It's done. This is over.

774
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:44,600
Speaker 1: There's not even any ability to sort of like pretend

775
00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:47,640
Speaker 1: like that's how the world is governed, or like there

776
00:44:47,680 --> 00:44:51,280
Speaker 1: are any real limits on what we and our allies

777
00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:52,000
Speaker 1: can do.

778
00:44:52,200 --> 00:44:54,839
Speaker 4: It's just effectively baked back to might makes right.

779
00:44:55,760 --> 00:44:58,759
Speaker 3: And you know, Russia capitalized on in this this. It

780
00:44:58,800 --> 00:45:01,399
Speaker 3: makes it much easier them to muddy the waters. They're

781
00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:03,920
Speaker 3: going to mudd a little leaders either way. But let's

782
00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:06,080
Speaker 3: put B two back up on the screen just for

783
00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:11,080
Speaker 3: a quick second, because after this major Russian era offensive

784
00:45:11,239 --> 00:45:14,560
Speaker 3: started late last week, the Associated Press is reporting here

785
00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:16,960
Speaker 3: that's shelling in the center of the Russian border city

786
00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:20,080
Speaker 3: of a city of Belgarod Saturday killed twenty one people,

787
00:45:20,120 --> 00:45:24,680
Speaker 3: including three children, according to local officials. Now, Russia's Defense

788
00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:28,000
Speaker 3: Ministry is saying that these are check made Vampire rockets

789
00:45:28,040 --> 00:45:32,239
Speaker 3: and Ulka missiles that were fired with cluster munition warheads.

790
00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:35,840
Speaker 3: The Associated Press adds importantly it provided no additional information,

791
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:38,960
Speaker 3: so they were unable to verify those claims. But cities

792
00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:42,360
Speaker 3: across western Russia have come under regular attack from drones

793
00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:46,120
Speaker 3: since May, with Russian officials blaming Kiv. Ukrainian officials never

794
00:45:46,200 --> 00:45:50,760
Speaker 3: acknowledge responsibility for attacks on Russian territory or the Crimean peninsula. However,

795
00:45:50,920 --> 00:45:55,040
Speaker 3: large aerial strikes against Russia have previously followed heavy assaults

796
00:45:55,160 --> 00:46:01,040
Speaker 3: on Ukrainian cities. Now let's also then move to B seven.

797
00:46:01,160 --> 00:46:05,120
Speaker 3: This is from the New York Times on December twenty third.

798
00:46:05,560 --> 00:46:10,400
Speaker 3: This is about potential. I'm so sorry. This is B six.

799
00:46:10,719 --> 00:46:12,520
Speaker 3: There are two New York Times tear sheets we're about

800
00:46:12,560 --> 00:46:16,000
Speaker 3: to talk about. The first one is that Putin quietly

801
00:46:16,040 --> 00:46:18,680
Speaker 3: signals he has opened to a ceasefire in Ukraine. That's

802
00:46:18,719 --> 00:46:21,640
Speaker 3: the headline. This is remarkable reporting that will not be

803
00:46:21,680 --> 00:46:25,279
Speaker 3: a surprise to any listeners or viewers of this show,

804
00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:32,480
Speaker 3: but again undermines the Biden administrations or the lack of

805
00:46:32,840 --> 00:46:37,640
Speaker 3: strategy and then occasionally horrible strategy that the Biden administration

806
00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:40,200
Speaker 3: has applied to this conflict. So reporting here from the

807
00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:43,080
Speaker 3: New York Times, Mister Putin has been signaling through intermediary

808
00:46:43,120 --> 00:46:45,279
Speaker 3: since at least September that he has opened to a

809
00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:48,600
Speaker 3: ceasefire that freezes the fighting along the current lines far

810
00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:52,760
Speaker 3: short of his ambitions to dominate Ukraine. Two former senior

811
00:46:52,840 --> 00:46:56,360
Speaker 3: Russian officials close to the Kremlin, and American and international

812
00:46:56,440 --> 00:46:59,240
Speaker 3: officials who have received the message from mister Putin's envoice

813
00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:01,719
Speaker 3: say the lead there from The New York Times that

814
00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:04,239
Speaker 3: was all one sentence if you were following along, but

815
00:47:04,520 --> 00:47:09,200
Speaker 3: jam packed with information. The story continues. In fact, mister

816
00:47:09,200 --> 00:47:12,120
Speaker 3: Putin also sent out feelers for a ceasefire deal a

817
00:47:12,239 --> 00:47:15,160
Speaker 3: year earlier, in the fall of twenty twenty two. According

818
00:47:15,160 --> 00:47:18,640
Speaker 3: to American officials, that quiet overture, not previously reported, came

819
00:47:18,640 --> 00:47:22,759
Speaker 3: after Ukraine routed Russia's army in the country's northeast. Mister

820
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:26,440
Speaker 3: Putin indicated that he was satisfied with Russia's captured territory

821
00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:29,279
Speaker 3: and ready for an armacist Now again, many of you

822
00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:33,880
Speaker 3: know this. The captured territory, Mantravit has been under contention

823
00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:37,480
Speaker 3: since twenty fourteen at least, and there has been you know,

824
00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:40,120
Speaker 3: not fighting in those regions, and many of those regions

825
00:47:40,200 --> 00:47:44,320
Speaker 3: are already very favorable to Russia. So Putin sort of

826
00:47:44,360 --> 00:47:49,080
Speaker 3: being satisfied with the territory that he has it makes sense.

827
00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:53,480
Speaker 3: There's sort of logical from his kind of cold calculated

828
00:47:53,520 --> 00:47:57,319
Speaker 3: strategic perspective a logical reason behind that. The New York

829
00:47:57,320 --> 00:47:59,600
Speaker 3: Times later in the story says the signals come through

830
00:47:59,680 --> 00:48:02,799
Speaker 3: multiple channels, including via foreign governments with ties to both

831
00:48:02,800 --> 00:48:07,080
Speaker 3: the US and Russia. Russifal unofficial emissaries have spoken to

832
00:48:07,120 --> 00:48:10,439
Speaker 3: interlocrators about the contours of a potential deal that mister

833
00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:14,040
Speaker 3: Putin would accept. Putin in the Russian Army. This is

834
00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:16,600
Speaker 3: a quote from the story from a source. They don't

835
00:48:16,600 --> 00:48:19,880
Speaker 3: want to stretch their capacity further. That's according to an

836
00:48:19,920 --> 00:48:22,960
Speaker 3: international official who actually met with Russian officials just a

837
00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:26,520
Speaker 3: couple of months ago in the fall. There's no evidence.

838
00:48:26,560 --> 00:48:29,000
Speaker 3: The New York Times continues that Ukraine's leaders, who have

839
00:48:29,040 --> 00:48:32,360
Speaker 3: pledged to retake all their territory, will accept such a deal.

840
00:48:32,840 --> 00:48:35,200
Speaker 3: Some American officials and this was Chris, I don't know,

841
00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:36,839
Speaker 3: but you I found this to be the critical point

842
00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:39,279
Speaker 3: of the story. Some American officials say it could be

843
00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:43,360
Speaker 3: a familiar Kremlin attempt at misdirection and does not reflect

844
00:48:43,400 --> 00:48:47,560
Speaker 3: genuine willingness by mister Putin to compromise. The former Russian

845
00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:49,919
Speaker 3: officials add that mister Putin could well change his mind

846
00:48:50,000 --> 00:48:52,919
Speaker 3: again if Russian forces gained momentum. So there you see

847
00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:55,480
Speaker 3: the New York Times giving a little bit to its

848
00:48:55,560 --> 00:48:59,680
Speaker 3: sources in intelligence. Just reading this as a journalist, it

849
00:48:59,719 --> 00:49:03,160
Speaker 3: looks like what they're doing is giving a little bit,

850
00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:05,320
Speaker 3: you know, they're reporting something that American intelligence does and

851
00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:07,520
Speaker 3: want them to report, because they're saying, this's just Putin

852
00:49:07,560 --> 00:49:10,440
Speaker 3: trying to muddy the waters, blame the US for scuttling

853
00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:15,080
Speaker 3: peace talks, which which makes him look like the negotiator

854
00:49:15,160 --> 00:49:17,680
Speaker 3: who you know, the US is turning its back on

855
00:49:17,840 --> 00:49:21,040
Speaker 3: peace with over and over again. But actually we are

856
00:49:21,160 --> 00:49:23,920
Speaker 3: turning our back on peace over and over again. And

857
00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:27,719
Speaker 3: it's not just Vladimir Putin's claims are not the only

858
00:49:27,760 --> 00:49:29,920
Speaker 3: proof of that we have. We have the proof of

859
00:49:29,960 --> 00:49:33,120
Speaker 3: claims of people in the Ukrainian government. Fiona Hill wrote

860
00:49:33,120 --> 00:49:36,160
Speaker 3: a story reporting about this in Foreign Policy, of all

861
00:49:36,239 --> 00:49:39,160
Speaker 3: people from the sort of Brooking sect writing about this

862
00:49:39,239 --> 00:49:42,120
Speaker 3: in Foreign Policy. Not long ago, we know that Mark

863
00:49:42,200 --> 00:49:45,600
Speaker 3: Milly encouraged Keith to negotiate what was this last year,

864
00:49:45,600 --> 00:49:47,360
Speaker 3: a fall of twenty twenty two. Actually I guess that

865
00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:50,000
Speaker 3: was two years ago now because it's newly twenty twenty four.

866
00:49:50,640 --> 00:49:53,520
Speaker 3: But other American officials, according to the Times believed it

867
00:49:53,560 --> 00:49:57,560
Speaker 3: was too soon for talks. So again, Crystal, very very

868
00:49:57,600 --> 00:50:02,440
Speaker 3: clear that the us IS is not satisfied with the

869
00:50:02,560 --> 00:50:06,120
Speaker 3: terms that could be brought to the table right now

870
00:50:05,719 --> 00:50:10,120
Speaker 3: to stop. We're at hundreds of thousands of deaths, according

871
00:50:10,120 --> 00:50:13,360
Speaker 3: to serious attestaments, hundreds of thousands of deaths.

872
00:50:14,560 --> 00:50:19,600
Speaker 1: It is to me such a moral atrocity and in

873
00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:26,760
Speaker 1: just absolute failure that we scuttled negotiations that were occurring

874
00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:31,719
Speaker 1: at the beginning of this war. And listen, they could

875
00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:35,080
Speaker 1: be right. It could be misdirection from Putin. It could

876
00:50:35,120 --> 00:50:38,759
Speaker 1: be that he's not serious about it. But there's one

877
00:50:38,800 --> 00:50:41,960
Speaker 1: way to find out, and that's to actually engage in

878
00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:45,239
Speaker 1: the process and try to negotiate a settlement in some

879
00:50:45,320 --> 00:50:49,200
Speaker 1: sort of good faith. I actually read this article a

880
00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:51,880
Speaker 1: little bit different, or interpret a little bit different than you, Emily,

881
00:50:51,920 --> 00:50:56,200
Speaker 1: because we have had these multiple reports now for years

882
00:50:56,640 --> 00:50:59,959
Speaker 1: about those early negotiations and the fact that it would

883
00:51:00,520 --> 00:51:04,319
Speaker 1: us pressure specifically and then with our buddies coming in

884
00:51:04,320 --> 00:51:08,920
Speaker 1: from the UK over the top that killed those negotiations,

885
00:51:08,960 --> 00:51:12,000
Speaker 1: and we said, no, we want you to go to war,

886
00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:16,080
Speaker 1: we want this fight. We wanted to use Ukraine as

887
00:51:16,080 --> 00:51:20,480
Speaker 1: our little pawn to try to weaken Russia. We used them,

888
00:51:21,400 --> 00:51:24,440
Speaker 1: and then now here we are years later, as you said,

889
00:51:24,480 --> 00:51:30,120
Speaker 1: after hundreds of thousands of lives lost, after so much

890
00:51:30,160 --> 00:51:32,000
Speaker 1: and that's of course the worst of it. And then

891
00:51:32,040 --> 00:51:36,760
Speaker 1: you talk about the economic destruction and the lives ruined

892
00:51:37,400 --> 00:51:41,399
Speaker 1: that we pushed for. And I've said this before, it's

893
00:51:41,400 --> 00:51:44,760
Speaker 1: actually bade me really learning and understanding. This has actually

894
00:51:44,760 --> 00:51:47,319
Speaker 1: made me more sympathetic to the like all in for

895
00:51:47,480 --> 00:51:53,560
Speaker 1: Ukraine people, because what we did was the most morally indefensible,

896
00:51:53,960 --> 00:51:56,120
Speaker 1: which is, we're going to make you fight this war,

897
00:51:56,680 --> 00:51:59,120
Speaker 1: but we're not going to give you everything that you

898
00:51:59,200 --> 00:52:01,640
Speaker 1: need in order to be successful. We're just gonna, you know,

899
00:52:01,719 --> 00:52:05,359
Speaker 1: dribble in enough to keep you hopeful so that you

900
00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:08,480
Speaker 1: can fight to the last man standing. And if you

901
00:52:08,520 --> 00:52:12,359
Speaker 1: read the reports about the enlistment shortage and the way

902
00:52:12,360 --> 00:52:15,480
Speaker 1: they're pulling men off the street, and you know the

903
00:52:15,560 --> 00:52:20,600
Speaker 1: average age of the fighting force, now it's absolutely atrocious.

904
00:52:21,239 --> 00:52:27,040
Speaker 1: They've lost effectively entire generation of men in Ukraine because

905
00:52:27,160 --> 00:52:30,680
Speaker 1: we wanted them to fight this war. And now, the

906
00:52:30,760 --> 00:52:34,239
Speaker 1: reason the way I read this report is this was

907
00:52:34,280 --> 00:52:38,879
Speaker 1: not none of this information about a potential peace deal,

908
00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:41,400
Speaker 1: potential negotiation, none of this had been reported out by

909
00:52:41,400 --> 00:52:42,000
Speaker 1: Western media.

910
00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:44,400
Speaker 4: They just ignored that any of this happened.

911
00:52:44,960 --> 00:52:47,720
Speaker 1: So the fact that you have the paper of record

912
00:52:48,360 --> 00:52:52,920
Speaker 1: for which through which the US Defense and Intelligence establishment

913
00:52:53,080 --> 00:52:58,000
Speaker 1: speaks now saying, hey, maybe Putin is actually open to

914
00:52:58,080 --> 00:53:02,600
Speaker 1: a deal. Here's some detail about some previous you know,

915
00:53:03,760 --> 00:53:10,319
Speaker 1: openings and previous potential negotiations that he reached out to

916
00:53:10,400 --> 00:53:13,520
Speaker 1: us and tried to float. That to me is a

917
00:53:13,560 --> 00:53:16,640
Speaker 1: significant shift. And then when you add that to put

918
00:53:17,120 --> 00:53:19,520
Speaker 1: the B seven up on the screen. Guys, this is

919
00:53:19,520 --> 00:53:23,480
Speaker 1: a New York Times editorial board member who wrote, now

920
00:53:23,520 --> 00:53:26,319
Speaker 1: and again, these were things you were not allowed to

921
00:53:26,360 --> 00:53:29,560
Speaker 1: say without being a Putin apologist, etc.

922
00:53:29,840 --> 00:53:30,080
Speaker 3: Etc.

923
00:53:30,760 --> 00:53:34,840
Speaker 1: Yep, blood on your hand, that's right. Absolutely. Ukraine doesn't

924
00:53:34,880 --> 00:53:38,719
Speaker 1: need all its territory to defeat Putin. Again, New York

925
00:53:38,760 --> 00:53:42,879
Speaker 1: Times ed board member writing this, and part of what

926
00:53:42,960 --> 00:53:45,239
Speaker 1: he says, which are things that you know, much of

927
00:53:45,280 --> 00:53:47,920
Speaker 1: this is things that people like us have been arguing

928
00:53:47,960 --> 00:53:51,359
Speaker 1: for quite a while. He says, regaining territory is the

929
00:53:51,400 --> 00:53:55,080
Speaker 1: wrong way to imagine the best outcome. True victory for

930
00:53:55,200 --> 00:53:57,040
Speaker 1: Ukraine is to rise from the hell of the war

931
00:53:57,120 --> 00:54:00,719
Speaker 1: as a strong, independent, prosperous and secure stately planted in

932
00:54:00,719 --> 00:54:03,560
Speaker 1: the west. It would be exactly what mister Putin most

933
00:54:03,640 --> 00:54:06,480
Speaker 1: feared from a neighboring state with deep historical ties to Russia,

934
00:54:06,840 --> 00:54:09,400
Speaker 1: and it would be a testament to what Russia promised

935
00:54:09,440 --> 00:54:12,479
Speaker 1: to become in nineteen ninety one when both countries broke

936
00:54:12,520 --> 00:54:15,120
Speaker 1: free of the Soviet Union, before mister Putin entered the

937
00:54:15,160 --> 00:54:17,919
Speaker 1: Kremlin and succumbed to grievance in the lore of dictatorial

938
00:54:17,960 --> 00:54:22,000
Speaker 1: power and imperial illusion. In many ways, mister Putin has

939
00:54:22,040 --> 00:54:24,719
Speaker 1: achieved the opposite of what he set out to do.

940
00:54:25,160 --> 00:54:28,160
Speaker 1: The Ukrainian nation, whose existence he poo pooed, has been

941
00:54:28,239 --> 00:54:31,760
Speaker 1: steeled in fire, and on December fourteenth, the European Union

942
00:54:31,800 --> 00:54:35,160
Speaker 1: formally agreed to open accession negotiations with Ukraine, the very

943
00:54:35,200 --> 00:54:38,719
Speaker 1: westward shift mister Putin went to war to block. Finland

944
00:54:38,719 --> 00:54:41,880
Speaker 1: has joined NATO, Swedeness edging closer to membership. These are

945
00:54:41,920 --> 00:54:47,760
Speaker 1: not the elements of victory, because the alternative perspective Emily,

946
00:54:47,880 --> 00:54:50,680
Speaker 1: which has some validity, is to say, well, if you

947
00:54:50,840 --> 00:54:55,040
Speaker 1: let Putin get away, which is taking this territory, what

948
00:54:55,080 --> 00:54:58,920
Speaker 1: message does ascend to China, what message does ascend to Russia?

949
00:54:59,080 --> 00:55:01,439
Speaker 1: That okay, well, we let you get away with it here.

950
00:55:01,840 --> 00:55:03,759
Speaker 1: You know what else is on your list, on your

951
00:55:03,760 --> 00:55:07,200
Speaker 1: wish list. But what he points out is so important,

952
00:55:07,320 --> 00:55:10,840
Speaker 1: which is that this has already been a disaster for Russia.

953
00:55:11,000 --> 00:55:14,120
Speaker 4: This has not gone well for them in the sense.

954
00:55:13,920 --> 00:55:19,280
Speaker 1: That they have forged a very strong Ukrainian national identity,

955
00:55:19,400 --> 00:55:22,360
Speaker 1: polar opposite of what they wanted. They have pushed Ukraine

956
00:55:22,520 --> 00:55:25,040
Speaker 1: closer to the West, the polar opposite of what they wanted.

957
00:55:25,280 --> 00:55:29,919
Speaker 1: They have, you know, introduced now Finland and Sweden edging

958
00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:34,480
Speaker 1: closer to Finland's join NATO, Sweden edging closer to NATO membership,

959
00:55:34,560 --> 00:55:36,560
Speaker 1: the polar opposite of what they wanted.

960
00:55:37,000 --> 00:55:39,800
Speaker 3: So it's not like closer to native membership.

961
00:55:40,120 --> 00:55:42,880
Speaker 1: It's not like they can look at what has happened

962
00:55:42,920 --> 00:55:46,000
Speaker 1: here and a lot of economic turbo. I mean, Russia

963
00:55:46,000 --> 00:55:48,520
Speaker 1: has held up better under sanctions that most people thought.

964
00:55:48,560 --> 00:55:51,200
Speaker 1: But it's not like this has been smooth sailing. They

965
00:55:51,200 --> 00:55:53,839
Speaker 1: can't look at this and say this has been great

966
00:55:53,840 --> 00:55:56,600
Speaker 1: for us. It's something we would like to repeat. And

967
00:55:56,680 --> 00:55:59,840
Speaker 1: so that's I think what's important about these pieces and

968
00:56:00,160 --> 00:56:04,280
Speaker 1: framing here is again this conversation was not allowed.

969
00:56:04,960 --> 00:56:07,320
Speaker 4: Now that it's happening in the New York Times.

970
00:56:07,440 --> 00:56:12,040
Speaker 1: It is a marks a dramatic shift in the tenor

971
00:56:12,120 --> 00:56:14,719
Speaker 1: of the conversation and the sorts of things that are

972
00:56:14,760 --> 00:56:19,880
Speaker 1: allowed to be floated. And I hope that it enables

973
00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:21,840
Speaker 1: us to move to a place of being open to

974
00:56:21,920 --> 00:56:24,920
Speaker 1: negotiated settlement, because listen, it would have been better to

975
00:56:25,360 --> 00:56:27,480
Speaker 1: try to do the deal early on, when Ukraine had

976
00:56:27,480 --> 00:56:29,960
Speaker 1: more momentum. Now they are in this dealmate. Now they're

977
00:56:29,960 --> 00:56:32,320
Speaker 1: in a sort of weakened position. It's very clear, you know,

978
00:56:32,400 --> 00:56:34,520
Speaker 1: if Trump comes in already there's a lot of question

979
00:56:34,560 --> 00:56:36,440
Speaker 1: about whether they'll get any more aids. So they're in

980
00:56:36,520 --> 00:56:39,120
Speaker 1: a very weekended position. But when you're in a hole,

981
00:56:39,600 --> 00:56:43,319
Speaker 1: stop digging. It could get much worse than it is

982
00:56:43,560 --> 00:56:45,719
Speaker 1: right now. And so that's why I see these as

983
00:56:45,920 --> 00:56:49,680
Speaker 1: almost I mean, it's horrifying what's happened in Ukraine. These

984
00:56:49,719 --> 00:56:55,080
Speaker 1: are at least some hopeful signs that perhaps diplomacy, negotiations

985
00:56:55,160 --> 00:56:57,720
Speaker 1: and peace could theoretically be at the table.

986
00:56:58,440 --> 00:56:59,879
Speaker 3: A couple of things you've just said that I want

987
00:56:59,880 --> 00:57:02,319
Speaker 3: to repeat that are I think, first of all, you're

988
00:57:02,360 --> 00:57:05,360
Speaker 3: so right that the story does feel like a turning

989
00:57:05,400 --> 00:57:08,560
Speaker 3: point in the war, because this is what you know

990
00:57:08,600 --> 00:57:11,440
Speaker 3: as members of Congress are returning here to Washington, d C.

991
00:57:11,680 --> 00:57:14,439
Speaker 3: This is what is on their desks. This is what

992
00:57:14,719 --> 00:57:17,480
Speaker 3: sort of gives them that permission slip. You say, oh,

993
00:57:17,520 --> 00:57:19,320
Speaker 3: there's a member of the New York Times editorial board,

994
00:57:19,400 --> 00:57:20,400
Speaker 3: eve Ben talking about this.

995
00:57:20,560 --> 00:57:20,840
Speaker 6: Now.

996
00:57:21,600 --> 00:57:25,439
Speaker 3: That is very, very different than just before they went

997
00:57:25,480 --> 00:57:29,160
Speaker 3: to Christmas break. That is a huge, huge difference. And

998
00:57:29,200 --> 00:57:31,320
Speaker 3: that may seem silly, because of course it is. You

999
00:57:31,320 --> 00:57:33,680
Speaker 3: shouldn't need to take your cues from a member of

1000
00:57:33,760 --> 00:57:35,920
Speaker 3: the New York Times editorial board when it comes to

1001
00:57:35,960 --> 00:57:39,560
Speaker 3: warm peace, but they do. And Crystal. The other point

1002
00:57:39,600 --> 00:57:43,040
Speaker 3: there is from A to B. Tens of thousands of

1003
00:57:43,080 --> 00:57:46,200
Speaker 3: lives were lost. From A when it was not okay

1004
00:57:46,240 --> 00:57:48,120
Speaker 3: to talk about any of these things less you have

1005
00:57:48,160 --> 00:57:50,680
Speaker 3: blood on your hands or be a Putin apologist, to

1006
00:57:50,800 --> 00:57:53,080
Speaker 3: point B, where now it's like, you know what, maybe

1007
00:57:53,080 --> 00:57:56,520
Speaker 3: they can give up the dombas. Tens of thousands of

1008
00:57:56,600 --> 00:57:59,040
Speaker 3: lives were lost. And you alluded to a Wall Street

1009
00:57:59,080 --> 00:58:02,960
Speaker 3: Journal story that was published right before Christmas that showed

1010
00:58:03,080 --> 00:58:08,360
Speaker 3: pretty clear evidence people on the record being illegally drafted

1011
00:58:08,480 --> 00:58:13,200
Speaker 3: by Ukraine into war with a system of bribery that

1012
00:58:13,280 --> 00:58:19,760
Speaker 3: was disproportionately shielding affluent Ukrainian men from service. So after

1013
00:58:19,840 --> 00:58:23,600
Speaker 3: this filled offensive that places like the New York Times

1014
00:58:23,600 --> 00:58:26,760
Speaker 3: were drip drip dripping telling us was going to change

1015
00:58:26,760 --> 00:58:30,640
Speaker 3: the war, was going to send Putin back on his heels.

1016
00:58:30,800 --> 00:58:34,800
Speaker 3: All of this now we have a wild mismatch between

1017
00:58:34,800 --> 00:58:39,320
Speaker 3: Western elites appetite for war and much of Ukraine's That's

1018
00:58:39,360 --> 00:58:41,840
Speaker 3: not to say there aren't you know, Ukrainian soldiers and

1019
00:58:41,960 --> 00:58:45,760
Speaker 3: Ukrainians that aren't still saying let's go out there get Russians.

1020
00:58:46,280 --> 00:58:50,440
Speaker 3: We will lay down our lives for this territory. Of

1021
00:58:50,440 --> 00:58:52,440
Speaker 3: course that still exists. But if you are having to

1022
00:58:52,680 --> 00:58:57,360
Speaker 3: illegally draft middle aged men by pulling them off the

1023
00:58:57,400 --> 00:59:01,760
Speaker 3: street as this Wall Street Journal story documents, and Western

1024
00:59:01,800 --> 00:59:05,120
Speaker 3: elites are still saying, let's go get them, let's keep

1025
00:59:05,160 --> 00:59:07,200
Speaker 3: sending you this money. And the way that Crystal you

1026
00:59:07,200 --> 00:59:10,360
Speaker 3: made a great point, we'll, you know, we'll we'll kind

1027
00:59:10,360 --> 00:59:11,920
Speaker 3: of send you the money, but it's going to be

1028
00:59:12,040 --> 00:59:14,560
Speaker 3: on the schedule, and maybe you won't get everything you

1029
00:59:14,560 --> 00:59:17,400
Speaker 3: want when you want it, and we're kind of in

1030
00:59:17,480 --> 00:59:19,080
Speaker 3: charge of the war, but we'll also kind of let

1031
00:59:19,160 --> 00:59:21,000
Speaker 3: you do things like you go do what you do

1032
00:59:21,080 --> 00:59:24,840
Speaker 3: with the nord Stream. It's just a disaster and a

1033
00:59:24,840 --> 00:59:26,360
Speaker 3: lot of people are dead because of it.

1034
00:59:26,840 --> 00:59:29,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's that is absolutely right.

1035
00:59:29,520 --> 00:59:33,120
Speaker 1: So we'll see what the new year brings and if

1036
00:59:33,160 --> 00:59:37,040
Speaker 1: there are any serious efforts to reach for a negotiated settlement.

1037
00:59:37,240 --> 00:59:41,840
Speaker 1: But you know, I will I will never forget the

1038
00:59:41,920 --> 00:59:46,360
Speaker 1: direct role, the central role, that the US played in

1039
00:59:47,000 --> 00:59:50,880
Speaker 1: blocking any sort of possibility of a negotiated settlement at

1040
00:59:50,880 --> 00:59:54,440
Speaker 1: the beginning, before these hundreds of thousands of lives were lost.

1041
00:59:54,760 --> 00:59:57,320
Speaker 1: I will never forget the way that we use Ukraine

1042
00:59:57,440 --> 01:00:01,400
Speaker 1: as are pawn and how much we have been exposed

1043
01:00:01,440 --> 01:00:02,960
Speaker 1: as full of it. When it comes to all of

1044
01:00:03,000 --> 01:00:07,520
Speaker 1: our supposed concerns about democracy in the international rules based order,

1045
01:00:07,560 --> 01:00:10,120
Speaker 1: it's just never been more clear than it is at

1046
01:00:10,160 --> 01:00:16,080
Speaker 1: this moment. Let's go ahead and turn to some domestic

1047
01:00:16,160 --> 01:00:19,960
Speaker 1: politics because while we were out over the break, major

1048
01:00:20,120 --> 01:00:26,840
Speaker 1: development in terms of Donald Trump and his various legal battles.

1049
01:00:26,880 --> 01:00:31,320
Speaker 1: So we had covered previously Colorado, the state Supreme Court

1050
01:00:31,720 --> 01:00:35,320
Speaker 1: issuing a ruling that, if upheld by the Supreme Court,

1051
01:00:35,600 --> 01:00:39,720
Speaker 1: would keep Trump off of that ballot. This under the

1052
01:00:39,800 --> 01:00:42,760
Speaker 1: provision in the Constitution that says you cannot engage in

1053
01:00:42,800 --> 01:00:46,520
Speaker 1: an insurrection if you'd previously held an office, taken an oath,

1054
01:00:46,520 --> 01:00:49,400
Speaker 1: et cetera. So now we've got another state attempting to

1055
01:00:49,400 --> 01:00:50,280
Speaker 1: remove Trump from the ballot.

1056
01:00:50,320 --> 01:00:52,080
Speaker 4: You can put this up on the screen. Now.

1057
01:00:52,120 --> 01:00:56,600
Speaker 1: This one came through a slightly different route. Main's secretary

1058
01:00:56,640 --> 01:01:01,240
Speaker 1: of State decided to remove Trump from the ballot because

1059
01:01:01,440 --> 01:01:05,240
Speaker 1: of the Fourteenth Amendments insurrection ban. Main Secretary of State

1060
01:01:05,720 --> 01:01:09,160
Speaker 1: Shnna Bellows paused her decision pending a potential appeal in

1061
01:01:09,240 --> 01:01:11,680
Speaker 1: state court, which Trump's team said they intend to file.

1062
01:01:12,200 --> 01:01:14,840
Speaker 1: Just to give you some of the nitty gritty here,

1063
01:01:14,880 --> 01:01:18,120
Speaker 1: they say. The decision makes Main second state to disqualify

1064
01:01:18,200 --> 01:01:21,400
Speaker 1: Trump from office after the Colorado Supreme Court handed down

1065
01:01:21,480 --> 01:01:23,680
Speaker 1: its own stunning ruling that removed him from the ballot

1066
01:01:23,960 --> 01:01:26,960
Speaker 1: earlier this month. She said her decision will be put

1067
01:01:27,000 --> 01:01:31,280
Speaker 1: on hold until Mains Superior Court, a trial level court,

1068
01:01:31,680 --> 01:01:34,040
Speaker 1: makes a ruling. It is not the highest court in

1069
01:01:34,080 --> 01:01:36,000
Speaker 1: the state, but it's the next level where Trump or

1070
01:01:36,080 --> 01:01:40,200
Speaker 1: others can appeal. Main's laws mandate that the superior court

1071
01:01:40,360 --> 01:01:43,560
Speaker 1: must make a decision within twenty days from Thursday that

1072
01:01:43,680 --> 01:01:47,680
Speaker 1: was January. That would be January seventeenth, So the main

1073
01:01:47,920 --> 01:01:51,160
Speaker 1: Superior Court has to weigh in here. That is not

1074
01:01:51,240 --> 01:01:53,600
Speaker 1: the highest level court in MAINEZ. I assume it'll go

1075
01:01:53,640 --> 01:01:55,760
Speaker 1: all the way up to the main Supreme Court, and

1076
01:01:55,800 --> 01:02:00,680
Speaker 1: then very likely I would assume the US Supreme Court

1077
01:02:00,800 --> 01:02:03,480
Speaker 1: is going to have to weigh in on these challenges

1078
01:02:03,560 --> 01:02:07,440
Speaker 1: and how to interpret this part of the constitution. Main

1079
01:02:07,520 --> 01:02:10,840
Speaker 1: Secretary of State was pressed on her decision here on CNN.

1080
01:02:10,960 --> 01:02:11,680
Speaker 4: Let's take a lism.

1081
01:02:11,880 --> 01:02:15,160
Speaker 6: I think it's really important that people understand the process

1082
01:02:15,920 --> 01:02:18,800
Speaker 6: as a general matter of states have the power to

1083
01:02:18,800 --> 01:02:22,080
Speaker 6: control their own ballots, and in fact do under the

1084
01:02:22,120 --> 01:02:27,400
Speaker 6: Constitution and main law specifically delegates to me, a Secretary

1085
01:02:27,440 --> 01:02:32,600
Speaker 6: of State, a requirement to review the qualifications for any

1086
01:02:32,680 --> 01:02:37,120
Speaker 6: candidate running for office. So, for example, last week, the

1087
01:02:37,120 --> 01:02:39,680
Speaker 6: Spirit Court found that my decision to bar mister Chris

1088
01:02:39,760 --> 01:02:42,840
Speaker 6: Christi from Maine's presidential primary ballot due to lack of

1089
01:02:42,840 --> 01:02:47,440
Speaker 6: signatures was lawful and correct. So my job I qualified

1090
01:02:47,480 --> 01:02:51,200
Speaker 6: mister Trump for the ballot, and under mean law, any

1091
01:02:51,280 --> 01:02:55,680
Speaker 6: registered voter can bring a challenge to that qualification. In

1092
01:02:55,720 --> 01:02:58,480
Speaker 6: this case, there were three challenges, and I was required

1093
01:02:58,520 --> 01:03:02,400
Speaker 6: by law to hold of hearing, an administrative hearing to

1094
01:03:02,440 --> 01:03:07,600
Speaker 6: review the evidence here testimony, both sides were represented by counsel,

1095
01:03:07,640 --> 01:03:09,800
Speaker 6: and mister Trump was represented by an attorney, and then

1096
01:03:09,840 --> 01:03:13,480
Speaker 6: I'm required to issue a decision. That's my obligation under

1097
01:03:13,520 --> 01:03:14,920
Speaker 6: the oath, I sworted the Constitution.

1098
01:03:15,960 --> 01:03:18,240
Speaker 2: In terms of the criticism that your decision takes away

1099
01:03:18,240 --> 01:03:20,760
Speaker 2: the right for voters to have their voice heard.

1100
01:03:21,280 --> 01:03:23,200
Speaker 4: Do you believe that's a valid concern.

1101
01:03:25,840 --> 01:03:30,480
Speaker 6: Again, my first and foremost obligation is my oath to

1102
01:03:30,600 --> 01:03:34,200
Speaker 6: uphold the Constitution and the role of law. Now, different

1103
01:03:34,200 --> 01:03:37,040
Speaker 6: states are different. For example, or neighboring New Hampshire, there

1104
01:03:37,040 --> 01:03:40,200
Speaker 6: are more than a dozen candidates on the Democratic presidential ballot,

1105
01:03:40,200 --> 01:03:43,560
Speaker 6: but mister Joseph Biden is not on the Democratic presidential

1106
01:03:43,560 --> 01:03:45,720
Speaker 6: primary ballot in New Hampshire, and there are more than

1107
01:03:45,760 --> 01:03:49,880
Speaker 6: a dozen Republican candidates in Mein there are two candidates

1108
01:03:49,880 --> 01:03:53,080
Speaker 6: on the Democratic presidential primary ballot and less than a

1109
01:03:53,120 --> 01:03:57,520
Speaker 6: dozen Republican presidential candidates. So every state is different. My

1110
01:03:58,160 --> 01:04:02,160
Speaker 6: obligation and duty, my soul consideration, is my hope to

1111
01:04:02,240 --> 01:04:03,200
Speaker 6: uphold the Constitution.

1112
01:04:03,520 --> 01:04:06,200
Speaker 1: So, Emily, you and I haven't talked either about Maine

1113
01:04:06,400 --> 01:04:10,680
Speaker 1: or about Colorado. Also, with their Supreme Court decision, that

1114
01:04:10,720 --> 01:04:13,160
Speaker 1: would ban Trump from the ballot. That's now been put

1115
01:04:13,200 --> 01:04:15,479
Speaker 1: on hold waiting for what happens at the Supreme Court.

1116
01:04:15,520 --> 01:04:17,760
Speaker 1: But what are some of your overall thoughts about what's

1117
01:04:17,800 --> 01:04:18,439
Speaker 1: going on here?

1118
01:04:19,080 --> 01:04:22,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, man, I think it's really really difficult to watch

1119
01:04:22,880 --> 01:04:26,480
Speaker 3: this play out knowing that you know as awful. And

1120
01:04:26,720 --> 01:04:28,800
Speaker 3: I say this all the time. I was there on

1121
01:04:28,960 --> 01:04:32,080
Speaker 3: January sixth covering the riot and it's one of the worst,

1122
01:04:32,120 --> 01:04:34,040
Speaker 3: if not the single worst thing that I've ever seen

1123
01:04:34,080 --> 01:04:37,880
Speaker 3: of covered riots, that was the worst of the worst

1124
01:04:37,880 --> 01:04:41,200
Speaker 3: that I've ever seen, and it was awful. And Donald

1125
01:04:41,240 --> 01:04:44,760
Speaker 3: Trump was playing with fire and he bears responsibility for it.

1126
01:04:44,840 --> 01:04:48,680
Speaker 3: He has not been charged with insurrection and Crystal. There

1127
01:04:48,720 --> 01:04:53,560
Speaker 3: are historic, I think differences between what was being discussed,

1128
01:04:53,760 --> 01:04:56,360
Speaker 3: and we have an article on this. Actually you can

1129
01:04:56,400 --> 01:04:58,640
Speaker 3: put C three up on the screen. This is from

1130
01:04:59,120 --> 01:05:03,000
Speaker 3: ABC News. What was being discussed as the fourteenth Amendment

1131
01:05:03,160 --> 01:05:07,000
Speaker 3: was written very specifically about people who took up arms

1132
01:05:07,480 --> 01:05:11,120
Speaker 3: personally personally took up arms against the United States. Now,

1133
01:05:11,120 --> 01:05:13,240
Speaker 3: the fourteenth Amendment does have a point about people who

1134
01:05:13,280 --> 01:05:17,120
Speaker 3: gave aid or comfort to people who took up arms

1135
01:05:17,200 --> 01:05:19,400
Speaker 3: against the United States, and that sort of makes it

1136
01:05:19,480 --> 01:05:22,760
Speaker 3: much more open ended and kind of vague. But it

1137
01:05:22,760 --> 01:05:25,760
Speaker 3: has never been interpreted in this way at all, and

1138
01:05:25,840 --> 01:05:29,320
Speaker 3: with nobody, let alone Donald Trump being charged with insurrection.

1139
01:05:29,480 --> 01:05:32,760
Speaker 3: And I don't say that to mean that Jacksmith should

1140
01:05:32,840 --> 01:05:36,800
Speaker 3: charge Donald Trump with insurrection personally, with the kind of

1141
01:05:36,880 --> 01:05:42,080
Speaker 3: insurrection that Confederates did when they literally fought to the

1142
01:05:42,200 --> 01:05:45,960
Speaker 3: death people from their own country to preserve, as Nicki

1143
01:05:46,000 --> 01:05:49,240
Speaker 3: Haley is a little bit scared to say, the institution

1144
01:05:49,520 --> 01:05:53,840
Speaker 3: of slavery. We could get into that, Crystal, but really

1145
01:05:53,880 --> 01:05:56,720
Speaker 3: there's no need to, because there's no point to talking

1146
01:05:56,760 --> 01:06:00,080
Speaker 3: about Nikki Haley anymore. But I mean, this was a

1147
01:06:00,200 --> 01:06:04,880
Speaker 3: very specific This is a very very specific phenomenon that

1148
01:06:04,960 --> 01:06:07,600
Speaker 3: was being addressed in the fourteenth Amendment about taking up

1149
01:06:07,680 --> 01:06:13,560
Speaker 3: arms and fomenting an insurrection, a war against your own country.

1150
01:06:13,640 --> 01:06:18,160
Speaker 3: And Donald Trump had insane disagreements, some that he didn't

1151
01:06:18,160 --> 01:06:21,600
Speaker 3: even believe in, I think is very clear, and did

1152
01:06:22,120 --> 01:06:24,440
Speaker 3: mislead people about. I continue to think that's one of

1153
01:06:24,480 --> 01:06:26,280
Speaker 3: the most disgusting parts of all this is the way

1154
01:06:26,360 --> 01:06:30,480
Speaker 3: Donald Trump treats his own voters. And you know, he

1155
01:06:30,560 --> 01:06:34,600
Speaker 3: did horrible things, that's all true. Charging him with insurrection,

1156
01:06:35,160 --> 01:06:37,959
Speaker 3: Crystal not only do I think it is legally wrong

1157
01:06:38,160 --> 01:06:40,160
Speaker 3: or not charging him with insurrection but then taking him

1158
01:06:40,160 --> 01:06:41,800
Speaker 3: off the ballot. Not only do I think it's legally

1159
01:06:41,840 --> 01:06:45,200
Speaker 3: wrong and dubious and sets a terrifying precedent, I also

1160
01:06:45,240 --> 01:06:51,040
Speaker 3: think it's really pushing us towards the brink of something very,

1161
01:06:51,320 --> 01:06:54,479
Speaker 3: very frightening. It feels like a recipe for a lot

1162
01:06:54,560 --> 01:06:58,840
Speaker 3: more January sixth going forward. When you kind of take

1163
01:06:58,920 --> 01:07:03,480
Speaker 3: that out of the voter's hands, people feel powerless. It

1164
01:07:03,520 --> 01:07:06,520
Speaker 3: makes people feel powerless more and more, and that's when

1165
01:07:06,560 --> 01:07:10,680
Speaker 3: people get desperate. So I just the whole thing is frightening.

1166
01:07:11,040 --> 01:07:13,040
Speaker 1: But I mean, we already are on the brink of

1167
01:07:13,080 --> 01:07:16,760
Speaker 1: something oddly, we already had January six Like I mean,

1168
01:07:16,840 --> 01:07:20,120
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about twenty twenty four, and like I'm normally

1169
01:07:20,160 --> 01:07:23,120
Speaker 1: so excited about a presidential electioneer because I'm such a

1170
01:07:23,160 --> 01:07:28,720
Speaker 1: political nerd, Like I can't even imagine a good outcome.

1171
01:07:29,120 --> 01:07:31,480
Speaker 1: There is no outcome that appears to be on the

1172
01:07:31,520 --> 01:07:35,280
Speaker 1: menu that is a good outcome. So I think the

1173
01:07:35,400 --> 01:07:38,440
Speaker 1: legal issues here are genuinely very tricky. I read the

1174
01:07:38,440 --> 01:07:41,640
Speaker 1: Colorado State Supreme Court ruling and like all of the

1175
01:07:41,640 --> 01:07:44,040
Speaker 1: different pieces that they were grappling with I just want

1176
01:07:44,040 --> 01:07:47,200
Speaker 1: to read for people what Section three of the fourteenth

1177
01:07:47,200 --> 01:07:50,360
Speaker 1: Amendment actually says in terms of the just like plain

1178
01:07:50,720 --> 01:07:53,240
Speaker 1: you know English meaning that people are taking from because

1179
01:07:53,240 --> 01:07:54,920
Speaker 1: you do have a majority of America. It's actually a

1180
01:07:54,920 --> 01:07:58,840
Speaker 1: pretty strong majority, including a quarter of Republicans who said yeah,

1181
01:07:58,880 --> 01:08:01,680
Speaker 1: actually agree with the color Rado Supreme Court on this.

1182
01:08:02,120 --> 01:08:04,560
Speaker 1: So it says no person shall be a senator or

1183
01:08:04,640 --> 01:08:07,440
Speaker 1: representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President,

1184
01:08:07,560 --> 01:08:12,080
Speaker 1: or hold any office civil or military under the United

1185
01:08:12,080 --> 01:08:15,240
Speaker 1: States or under any State, who, having previously taken an

1186
01:08:15,280 --> 01:08:17,360
Speaker 1: oath as a member of Congress, or as an officer

1187
01:08:17,400 --> 01:08:19,880
Speaker 1: of the US, or as a member of any state legislator,

1188
01:08:19,960 --> 01:08:23,000
Speaker 1: or as an executive or judicial officer of any state,

1189
01:08:23,320 --> 01:08:27,200
Speaker 1: to support the Constitution of the US, shall have engaged

1190
01:08:27,280 --> 01:08:31,639
Speaker 1: in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid

1191
01:08:31,800 --> 01:08:35,080
Speaker 1: or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may, by

1192
01:08:35,120 --> 01:08:38,280
Speaker 1: a vote of two thirds of each House, remove such disability.

1193
01:08:38,640 --> 01:08:45,320
Speaker 1: So we just had the Colorado GOP appeal the state

1194
01:08:45,360 --> 01:08:48,760
Speaker 1: Supreme Court ruling there. One thing that was interesting to

1195
01:08:48,800 --> 01:08:52,160
Speaker 1: me is they did not actually contest on the grounds

1196
01:08:52,160 --> 01:08:55,160
Speaker 1: that Trump was not engaged in or giving aid or

1197
01:08:55,200 --> 01:08:59,679
Speaker 1: comfort to the enemies engaged in an insurrection. They challenged

1198
01:08:59,680 --> 01:09:04,000
Speaker 1: some of the these more technical legal pieces, including whether

1199
01:09:04,280 --> 01:09:06,639
Speaker 1: the President of the United States is a quote office

1200
01:09:07,160 --> 01:09:09,439
Speaker 1: of you know that this would apply to, which I

1201
01:09:09,520 --> 01:09:11,880
Speaker 1: always have thought was preposterous. And one of the things

1202
01:09:11,880 --> 01:09:15,320
Speaker 1: that that that news article we had up a moment

1203
01:09:15,360 --> 01:09:19,000
Speaker 1: ago mentions is that in the debate over the language

1204
01:09:19,040 --> 01:09:22,120
Speaker 1: of this amendment, this actually came up. There's a single

1205
01:09:22,200 --> 01:09:24,759
Speaker 1: reference in that Senate debate to the fact that president

1206
01:09:24,840 --> 01:09:29,360
Speaker 1: and vice president are not specifically mentioned in this draft,

1207
01:09:29,920 --> 01:09:33,080
Speaker 1: and a Maryland Democratic center said, why did you admit

1208
01:09:33,320 --> 01:09:37,320
Speaker 1: omit to exclude them? And this person who drafted responded,

1209
01:09:37,560 --> 01:09:39,479
Speaker 1: let me call the cenator's attention to the words or

1210
01:09:39,560 --> 01:09:42,879
Speaker 1: hold any office civil or military under the United States

1211
01:09:43,280 --> 01:09:46,760
Speaker 1: is included, And that ended the discussion, basically meaning like, well,

1212
01:09:46,760 --> 01:09:49,080
Speaker 1: it says any office, like of course the president is

1213
01:09:49,160 --> 01:09:51,960
Speaker 1: included here. So it was interesting to me that the

1214
01:09:52,000 --> 01:09:55,200
Speaker 1: Republican party that filed this appeal did not actually take

1215
01:09:55,280 --> 01:09:58,400
Speaker 1: issue with the idea that Trump engaged and insurrection or

1216
01:09:58,439 --> 01:10:00,240
Speaker 1: gave aid and comfort to. It was some of these

1217
01:10:00,320 --> 01:10:05,560
Speaker 1: tricky legal issues. So listen, my view is it's appropriate

1218
01:10:06,439 --> 01:10:10,120
Speaker 1: to have this provision in a constitution to protect the

1219
01:10:10,200 --> 01:10:14,880
Speaker 1: state from you know, insurrectionists and people who give aid

1220
01:10:14,960 --> 01:10:16,320
Speaker 1: and comfort to insurrectionists.

1221
01:10:16,320 --> 01:10:17,720
Speaker 4: I think it is appropriate to have this.

1222
01:10:17,840 --> 01:10:21,480
Speaker 1: In I think it is very right, like soccer gotta

1223
01:10:21,560 --> 01:10:23,400
Speaker 1: keep Sager out office, and I think that the only

1224
01:10:23,439 --> 01:10:26,880
Speaker 1: appropriate avenue in terms of the like vagueness of this

1225
01:10:27,000 --> 01:10:30,040
Speaker 1: provision and the fact that it hasn't been applied in

1226
01:10:30,200 --> 01:10:32,719
Speaker 1: modern times really since the Civil War, or at least

1227
01:10:32,760 --> 01:10:35,920
Speaker 1: very rarely, I think it's entirely appropriate for it to

1228
01:10:35,960 --> 01:10:37,920
Speaker 1: go to the Supreme Court and for them to set

1229
01:10:37,960 --> 01:10:41,759
Speaker 1: the guidelines of here's the process, here's the definition, here's

1230
01:10:41,800 --> 01:10:44,360
Speaker 1: what it means, here's how you know, and here's how

1231
01:10:44,360 --> 01:10:46,600
Speaker 1: we can you know, here's how we can work with

1232
01:10:46,680 --> 01:10:49,080
Speaker 1: this moving forward. The last thing, and i'll call your

1233
01:10:49,120 --> 01:10:53,679
Speaker 1: attention to in that news article about what the debate

1234
01:10:53,920 --> 01:10:57,840
Speaker 1: was at the time, is, you know, there's a question

1235
01:10:57,880 --> 01:11:01,400
Speaker 1: of whether this was even meant to apply to future

1236
01:11:01,720 --> 01:11:04,680
Speaker 1: insurrections or if it was really just specifically for the

1237
01:11:04,720 --> 01:11:08,599
Speaker 1: Civil War. And there was some language in the debate

1238
01:11:08,720 --> 01:11:11,080
Speaker 1: about they say this is to go into our constitution

1239
01:11:11,160 --> 01:11:14,000
Speaker 1: and to stand to govern future insurrection as well as

1240
01:11:14,040 --> 01:11:15,880
Speaker 1: the president, and I should like to have that point

1241
01:11:15,960 --> 01:11:18,920
Speaker 1: definitely understood. So there was a sense at the time,

1242
01:11:19,000 --> 01:11:24,120
Speaker 1: and you know, for the conservative justices who claim to

1243
01:11:24,120 --> 01:11:26,519
Speaker 1: be your originalists, and to look at what the meaning

1244
01:11:26,560 --> 01:11:28,360
Speaker 1: and intent was at the time, and to look at

1245
01:11:28,360 --> 01:11:32,520
Speaker 1: the plain text reading of the language of the Constitution.

1246
01:11:33,200 --> 01:11:36,840
Speaker 1: The Colorado Supreme Court in particular wrote there, my cat's

1247
01:11:36,880 --> 01:11:38,320
Speaker 1: going crazy in the background, guys.

1248
01:11:38,439 --> 01:11:41,320
Speaker 3: K ismurrection against your chair.

1249
01:11:41,720 --> 01:11:43,920
Speaker 1: Salem is going to be barred from holding office in

1250
01:11:43,960 --> 01:11:44,360
Speaker 1: that chair.

1251
01:11:44,680 --> 01:11:45,080
Speaker 4: Anyway.

1252
01:11:45,880 --> 01:11:49,760
Speaker 1: They really wrote the language to sort of challenge the

1253
01:11:50,640 --> 01:11:54,400
Speaker 1: judicial approach of the conservative justices. Now, what do I

1254
01:11:54,439 --> 01:11:56,320
Speaker 1: think is going to happen. I think they're going to

1255
01:11:56,360 --> 01:11:58,200
Speaker 1: say no, Trump's going to be on the ballot. I

1256
01:11:58,200 --> 01:12:01,880
Speaker 1: think is very unlikely that they uphold the Colorado State

1257
01:12:01,920 --> 01:12:05,320
Speaker 1: Supreme Court decision. But you know, Maggie Haberman did actually

1258
01:12:05,360 --> 01:12:07,400
Speaker 1: say something about I guess Trump is kind of worried

1259
01:12:07,400 --> 01:12:09,519
Speaker 1: that his own justices that you put on there might

1260
01:12:09,560 --> 01:12:11,400
Speaker 1: flip on him and keep him off the ballot.

1261
01:12:11,479 --> 01:12:14,439
Speaker 4: So listen, crazier things have happened. I guess you never know.

1262
01:12:15,240 --> 01:12:17,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, First of all, Crystal Scat has turned her chair

1263
01:12:17,520 --> 01:12:21,479
Speaker 3: into like the teacups at Disney World. It's just right,

1264
01:12:21,920 --> 01:12:26,479
Speaker 3: it's amazing smart. But yeah, I think we can put

1265
01:12:26,520 --> 01:12:28,599
Speaker 3: the last element up on the screen too. That's another thing,

1266
01:12:28,800 --> 01:12:34,000
Speaker 3: you know, where where the legality of this is tricky

1267
01:12:34,760 --> 01:12:38,840
Speaker 3: or dubious. Time Magazine says Americans appear more amenable to

1268
01:12:38,880 --> 01:12:41,600
Speaker 3: autocracy in twenty twenty four, but they're alluding there to

1269
01:12:42,080 --> 01:12:44,799
Speaker 3: very real polling. And if you look at the RCP averages,

1270
01:12:44,840 --> 01:12:47,600
Speaker 3: for example, of Ronan De Santis and Donald Trump, you

1271
01:12:47,680 --> 01:12:50,920
Speaker 3: see this. Ryan described it as like an alligator jar

1272
01:12:51,040 --> 01:12:53,960
Speaker 3: crocodile draw. I forgot which one. He said. As soon

1273
01:12:54,000 --> 01:12:57,320
Speaker 3: as the indictment started coming down, of Trump's support just

1274
01:12:57,320 --> 01:13:01,000
Speaker 3: going up. De Santas's support just going down. That the

1275
01:13:01,040 --> 01:13:05,519
Speaker 3: sort of ongoing lawfair against Trump just solidifies people's support

1276
01:13:05,600 --> 01:13:07,920
Speaker 3: for him. And that's where Chris, what's your point. You know,

1277
01:13:07,960 --> 01:13:11,360
Speaker 3: some Republicans are involved in filing these challenges and some

1278
01:13:11,840 --> 01:13:15,960
Speaker 3: Republicans supporting what Colorado's decision was. That's I mean, Donald

1279
01:13:15,960 --> 01:13:19,960
Speaker 3: Trump is just incredibly polarizing, and I think maybe one

1280
01:13:20,360 --> 01:13:23,880
Speaker 3: thing that we can agree on is the Democrats have

1281
01:13:24,080 --> 01:13:28,720
Speaker 3: and never Trump kind of Republicans sort of desperately have

1282
01:13:29,000 --> 01:13:33,760
Speaker 3: flung lawfair at Donald Trump. Since twenty fifteen, when the

1283
01:13:33,840 --> 01:13:37,920
Speaker 3: dossier was first funded by Republicans, by the way, they

1284
01:13:37,960 --> 01:13:40,879
Speaker 3: have tried to thwart Donald Trump in every way except

1285
01:13:40,920 --> 01:13:44,360
Speaker 3: actually persuading the voters that they shouldn't support Donald Trump.

1286
01:13:44,360 --> 01:13:47,519
Speaker 3: They've like not figured out the persuasive argument for this

1287
01:13:47,680 --> 01:13:50,519
Speaker 3: hard and thirty percent of the country that supports Donald

1288
01:13:50,560 --> 01:13:52,440
Speaker 3: Trump to the point where he can win a primary

1289
01:13:52,560 --> 01:13:54,920
Speaker 3: and then convince, you know, another twenty percent of the

1290
01:13:54,960 --> 01:13:58,800
Speaker 3: country that the other option is so bad that you know,

1291
01:13:58,800 --> 01:14:01,080
Speaker 3: they have to go with Donald Trump for a number

1292
01:14:01,080 --> 01:14:03,320
Speaker 3: of different reasons, for a number of different voters. And

1293
01:14:03,320 --> 01:14:06,000
Speaker 3: and that again is the real like, that's that's another

1294
01:14:06,040 --> 01:14:09,639
Speaker 3: real problem that hangs over all of this is that

1295
01:14:09,640 --> 01:14:14,040
Speaker 3: that that argument of you know, things are Joe Biden

1296
01:14:14,120 --> 01:14:17,000
Speaker 3: is talking about the economy as though everything is rosy,

1297
01:14:17,000 --> 01:14:18,519
Speaker 3: and of course he is. He's been president for a

1298
01:14:18,560 --> 01:14:20,679
Speaker 3: couple of years. In the middle of re election campaign,

1299
01:14:20,720 --> 01:14:22,560
Speaker 3: he wants to say we've made progress. And you know,

1300
01:14:22,600 --> 01:14:24,479
Speaker 3: there's an argument that some progress has been made, but

1301
01:14:24,560 --> 01:14:28,560
Speaker 3: people express they aren't feeling like the economy is the

1302
01:14:28,600 --> 01:14:30,839
Speaker 3: same way that Joe Biden is talking about the economy.

1303
01:14:30,880 --> 01:14:33,479
Speaker 3: They expressed that they're not feeling the same way about

1304
01:14:33,760 --> 01:14:37,439
Speaker 3: geopolitical stability and American leadership on the world days as

1305
01:14:37,520 --> 01:14:40,519
Speaker 3: Joe Biden is saying that they should. And that's where

1306
01:14:40,520 --> 01:14:43,120
Speaker 3: Trump comes in and is persuasive to a lot of people.

1307
01:14:43,200 --> 01:14:47,120
Speaker 3: So there's still an incredible vacuum in the persuadability of

1308
01:14:47,160 --> 01:14:49,919
Speaker 3: a chunk of the country, not everyone. We're extremely polarized

1309
01:14:49,920 --> 01:14:52,240
Speaker 3: around the issue of Trump, and very polarized in general,

1310
01:14:53,000 --> 01:14:55,720
Speaker 3: but that continues, I think to be a real handicap

1311
01:14:55,800 --> 01:14:56,759
Speaker 3: for Trump's enemies.

1312
01:14:57,800 --> 01:15:02,799
Speaker 1: I think I saw some other poll about America's rising

1313
01:15:03,160 --> 01:15:09,960
Speaker 1: comfort with authoritarianism, and that sentiment is most strongly expressed

1314
01:15:10,080 --> 01:15:15,520
Speaker 1: among the hardest partisan Republicans. But the rise is significant

1315
01:15:15,640 --> 01:15:19,439
Speaker 1: regardless of political ideology, and to me, it gets to

1316
01:15:19,520 --> 01:15:22,519
Speaker 1: something you're pointing to here, which is that it's not

1317
01:15:22,560 --> 01:15:25,880
Speaker 1: that Democrats haven't tried to persuade people they shouldn't vote

1318
01:15:25,880 --> 01:15:28,439
Speaker 1: for Donald Trump. They certainly have tried. But what they've

1319
01:15:28,439 --> 01:15:32,719
Speaker 1: been unwilling to do or unable to do, given their own,

1320
01:15:32,960 --> 01:15:36,680
Speaker 1: like you know, compromised situations and see of money and

1321
01:15:36,760 --> 01:15:41,280
Speaker 1: politics that infects both parties, they've been unable and unwilling

1322
01:15:41,479 --> 01:15:47,720
Speaker 1: to offer an affirmative, positive agenda that is a viable alternative,

1323
01:15:47,800 --> 01:15:52,040
Speaker 1: and so to me, it's very logical, and you know

1324
01:15:52,400 --> 01:15:54,799
Speaker 1: very clear if you look at history that if people

1325
01:15:54,800 --> 01:15:58,160
Speaker 1: feel like democracy isn't delivering for them, then they may

1326
01:15:58,200 --> 01:16:02,880
Speaker 1: sour on democracy or they may not prioritize democracy. And

1327
01:16:02,960 --> 01:16:04,840
Speaker 1: I think that's a lot of what you're seeing here,

1328
01:16:04,840 --> 01:16:07,720
Speaker 1: as people feel like, you know, whoever I vote for

1329
01:16:07,760 --> 01:16:11,000
Speaker 1: in this upcoming election, it's not gonna help me, it's

1330
01:16:11,040 --> 01:16:13,360
Speaker 1: not going to affect in my life. They don't feel

1331
01:16:13,400 --> 01:16:16,720
Speaker 1: like these the stakes of these elections aren't really the

1332
01:16:16,800 --> 01:16:21,559
Speaker 1: same because there's no expectation that either major political party

1333
01:16:21,720 --> 01:16:25,000
Speaker 1: is going to actually deliver for them, and so instead

1334
01:16:25,040 --> 01:16:26,640
Speaker 1: it's like, all right, well, who's on my side in

1335
01:16:26,680 --> 01:16:29,280
Speaker 1: the culture war? Who's like owning or hating on the

1336
01:16:29,320 --> 01:16:32,680
Speaker 1: person that I also hate? And that's what our politics

1337
01:16:32,680 --> 01:16:36,920
Speaker 1: devolves to, as as well as willingness to reach for

1338
01:16:37,000 --> 01:16:40,439
Speaker 1: authoritarian tactics to keep the group that you see as

1339
01:16:40,439 --> 01:16:43,160
Speaker 1: an existential threat that you've been told by media as

1340
01:16:43,160 --> 01:16:45,880
Speaker 1: an existential threat, to try to keep them at bay.

1341
01:16:45,960 --> 01:16:48,280
Speaker 1: So I think that's part of what's going on here

1342
01:16:48,360 --> 01:16:50,800
Speaker 1: in terms of like the lawfair against Donald Trump. I mean,

1343
01:16:50,800 --> 01:16:53,439
Speaker 1: there's no doubt about it, like the Russia Gate nonsense,

1344
01:16:53,479 --> 01:16:56,439
Speaker 1: all that stuff, But you do have to separate, separate

1345
01:16:56,479 --> 01:16:59,479
Speaker 1: out like which of these claims are legitimate and have

1346
01:16:59,560 --> 01:17:02,799
Speaker 1: some base and which are just total like fabricated distraction

1347
01:17:02,920 --> 01:17:05,240
Speaker 1: and bullshit. So the fact that some of the claims

1348
01:17:05,280 --> 01:17:07,320
Speaker 1: are distraction and bullshit does not mean that all of

1349
01:17:07,360 --> 01:17:09,519
Speaker 1: the claims are distraction and bullshit.

1350
01:17:09,920 --> 01:17:11,519
Speaker 4: And I think there's.

1351
01:17:11,280 --> 01:17:17,439
Speaker 1: A reason why the normy reaction to the language in

1352
01:17:17,479 --> 01:17:21,080
Speaker 1: this in fourteenth Amendment Section three has been like, oh, yeah,

1353
01:17:21,120 --> 01:17:24,120
Speaker 1: that sounds like him, like that kind of fits, because

1354
01:17:24,120 --> 01:17:25,720
Speaker 1: it does if you just read it, you're like, well,

1355
01:17:25,760 --> 01:17:27,519
Speaker 1: if it applied to anyone, it's this dude.

1356
01:17:27,960 --> 01:17:30,120
Speaker 4: So, like I said, where do I think this is

1357
01:17:30,160 --> 01:17:31,080
Speaker 4: going to go? Ultimately?

1358
01:17:31,120 --> 01:17:32,639
Speaker 1: I think Supreme Court is going to strike it down

1359
01:17:32,680 --> 01:17:34,920
Speaker 1: and so it's not going to really, you know, matter

1360
01:17:34,960 --> 01:17:37,759
Speaker 1: that much. But I guess you'd ever know what could happen,

1361
01:17:37,920 --> 01:17:43,160
Speaker 1: And it's certainly a test of where we are as

1362
01:17:43,200 --> 01:17:44,920
Speaker 1: a country, and it will be a test of how

1363
01:17:45,000 --> 01:17:47,160
Speaker 1: everyone reacts to what's going on here.

1364
01:17:47,680 --> 01:17:51,639
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree, and we will expect something on these

1365
01:17:51,720 --> 01:17:53,840
Speaker 3: cases legally in just the next couple of days, so

1366
01:17:53,960 --> 01:17:56,040
Speaker 3: there's a lot of news to stay tuned too when

1367
01:17:56,080 --> 01:17:58,719
Speaker 3: it comes to these ballot qualification questions.

1368
01:18:01,160 --> 01:18:02,960
Speaker 1: So let's talk about the other side of the ledger

1369
01:18:03,040 --> 01:18:07,919
Speaker 1: here Joe Biden not looking so hot for his reelection

1370
01:18:08,040 --> 01:18:10,439
Speaker 1: as we had into twenty twenty four, and none of

1371
01:18:10,439 --> 01:18:14,920
Speaker 1: them then MSNBC's Steve Kernaki breaking down the numbers with

1372
01:18:14,960 --> 01:18:15,960
Speaker 1: the dire warning for him.

1373
01:18:16,040 --> 01:18:16,719
Speaker 4: Let's take a listen.

1374
01:18:17,320 --> 01:18:20,200
Speaker 7: How about the Democratic into things? Joe Biden seems poised

1375
01:18:20,439 --> 01:18:22,280
Speaker 7: to be at the Democratic nominee.

1376
01:18:22,360 --> 01:18:23,799
Speaker 8: What kind of years he had politically?

1377
01:18:23,800 --> 01:18:26,599
Speaker 7: Well, again, he started twenty twenty three coming off those

1378
01:18:26,640 --> 01:18:30,080
Speaker 7: good mid terms for Democrats, and his approval rating forty six.

1379
01:18:30,120 --> 01:18:31,360
Speaker 8: Fifty wasn't that bad.

1380
01:18:31,640 --> 01:18:33,960
Speaker 7: But he's taken a hit this year and as we

1381
01:18:34,000 --> 01:18:36,080
Speaker 7: start to close out the year, our final NBC poll

1382
01:18:36,120 --> 01:18:40,440
Speaker 7: had him at just forty percent approval fifty seven percent disapproval.

1383
01:18:40,439 --> 01:18:43,920
Speaker 7: How does this compare to past presidents entering their reelection year.

1384
01:18:43,960 --> 01:18:44,840
Speaker 8: Here you can see it.

1385
01:18:45,160 --> 01:18:47,120
Speaker 7: Here's the forty that we have Biden at right now.

1386
01:18:47,120 --> 01:18:50,000
Speaker 7: These are all the final polls heading into the election year,

1387
01:18:50,120 --> 01:18:52,120
Speaker 7: reelection year that NBC conducted.

1388
01:18:52,160 --> 01:18:53,280
Speaker 8: You just see all the recent president.

1389
01:18:53,320 --> 01:18:55,760
Speaker 7: Look, Trump got beat in twenty twenty, he was at

1390
01:18:55,800 --> 01:18:57,760
Speaker 7: forty four heading into his reelection year.

1391
01:18:57,960 --> 01:18:59,280
Speaker 8: Bush Senior got beate in.

1392
01:18:59,280 --> 01:19:02,920
Speaker 7: Ninety two at fifty two and heading south rapidly there.

1393
01:19:03,080 --> 01:19:05,280
Speaker 8: But you see how that number compares. That's the lowest.

1394
01:19:05,280 --> 01:19:05,960
Speaker 8: That's the lowest in.

1395
01:19:05,960 --> 01:19:09,280
Speaker 7: An NBC poll for an incumbent facing a re election here,

1396
01:19:09,320 --> 01:19:11,799
Speaker 7: but it is a tight race when you poll Biden

1397
01:19:11,880 --> 01:19:13,360
Speaker 7: versus Trump at the start of the year, and the

1398
01:19:13,400 --> 01:19:16,599
Speaker 7: average of the polls nationally Biden at a two point advantage.

1399
01:19:16,640 --> 01:19:19,200
Speaker 7: Now at the end of the year, it is Trump

1400
01:19:19,200 --> 01:19:21,920
Speaker 7: who on average has a two point advantage here of them,

1401
01:19:22,040 --> 01:19:24,400
Speaker 7: and that leads to this final graphic here a poll

1402
01:19:24,479 --> 01:19:27,479
Speaker 7: from the Wall Street Journal recently. They included a bunch

1403
01:19:27,520 --> 01:19:30,960
Speaker 7: of third party options and against Biden and Trump.

1404
01:19:30,760 --> 01:19:32,120
Speaker 8: They added up to seventeen percent.

1405
01:19:32,160 --> 01:19:34,200
Speaker 7: That's a big question heading into twenty twenty four, is

1406
01:19:34,200 --> 01:19:36,680
Speaker 7: they're going to be a real third party candidate to

1407
01:19:36,760 --> 01:19:38,080
Speaker 7: create a wildcard.

1408
01:19:37,600 --> 01:19:42,960
Speaker 1: In this so lowest approval rating of an incumbent president

1409
01:19:43,120 --> 01:19:48,599
Speaker 1: heading into re election. Ever, Ever, that's where Jay, that's

1410
01:19:48,640 --> 01:19:53,360
Speaker 1: where Joe Biden stands as of now, and I mean

1411
01:19:53,600 --> 01:19:56,640
Speaker 1: it's for them, it's complete disaster. I also saw a

1412
01:19:56,680 --> 01:19:59,720
Speaker 1: poll this morning, Emily that ties into our discussions both

1413
01:19:59,720 --> 01:20:02,080
Speaker 1: about Ukraine and certainly about Israel.

1414
01:20:02,200 --> 01:20:05,360
Speaker 4: That foreign policy, which normally is kind of.

1415
01:20:05,280 --> 01:20:08,240
Speaker 1: Like a back burner issue in American politics, has now

1416
01:20:08,240 --> 01:20:10,760
Speaker 1: become one of the top issues that both Democrats and

1417
01:20:10,800 --> 01:20:15,080
Speaker 1: Republicans and Independents, all three are focused on in terms

1418
01:20:15,120 --> 01:20:16,120
Speaker 1: of a vote choice.

1419
01:20:16,439 --> 01:20:18,040
Speaker 4: And we know that Biden.

1420
01:20:18,280 --> 01:20:23,639
Speaker 1: Is dramatically at odds with his own base in terms

1421
01:20:23,720 --> 01:20:28,640
Speaker 1: of his unconditional support for Israel, young voters in particular

1422
01:20:29,040 --> 01:20:34,360
Speaker 1: Arab Americans, Muslim Americans. Really there's a huge racial divide

1423
01:20:34,760 --> 01:20:39,479
Speaker 1: in views towards Israel as well, with both black and

1424
01:20:39,479 --> 01:20:44,120
Speaker 1: brown voters much more supportive of Palestinians much more skeptical

1425
01:20:44,640 --> 01:20:49,120
Speaker 1: of Israeli military actions than white voters in general. So

1426
01:20:49,720 --> 01:20:54,080
Speaker 1: he's got trouble on basically every front. And listen, I mean,

1427
01:20:54,160 --> 01:20:56,040
Speaker 1: in some ways, the best thing he's got going for him,

1428
01:20:56,040 --> 01:20:58,559
Speaker 1: he should be very much opposed to these decisions from

1429
01:20:58,600 --> 01:21:02,280
Speaker 1: Colorado and May because I think the only shot is

1430
01:21:02,320 --> 01:21:06,120
Speaker 1: that people find Trump even more odious and distasteful than

1431
01:21:06,120 --> 01:21:06,800
Speaker 1: they find him.

1432
01:21:07,800 --> 01:21:10,160
Speaker 3: That's a good point. I also think one thing from

1433
01:21:10,760 --> 01:21:14,400
Speaker 3: Karnaki is the hysteria is about to ramp up when

1434
01:21:14,400 --> 01:21:17,120
Speaker 3: it comes to third party candidates. And this has been

1435
01:21:17,920 --> 01:21:20,479
Speaker 3: something I've I've really believed for a long time, which

1436
01:21:20,520 --> 01:21:25,439
Speaker 3: is that RFK Junior is more of a threat actually

1437
01:21:25,640 --> 01:21:29,320
Speaker 3: to Trump than to Biden. And I know that sounds weird,

1438
01:21:29,800 --> 01:21:33,080
Speaker 3: but I really think that the more Trump goes after

1439
01:21:33,439 --> 01:21:36,840
Speaker 3: RFK Junior, the more attractive he looks to some people

1440
01:21:36,880 --> 01:21:39,280
Speaker 3: on the West, on the left, because there's been so

1441
01:21:39,439 --> 01:21:43,840
Speaker 3: little conversation about his long support and just like very

1442
01:21:44,040 --> 01:21:49,160
Speaker 3: substantive activist work in the environmental movement and in other

1443
01:21:49,200 --> 01:21:51,920
Speaker 3: sort of anti corporate spaces over the last couple of decades.

1444
01:21:51,960 --> 01:21:55,360
Speaker 3: And people can disagree about RFK Junior, but there hasn't

1445
01:21:55,400 --> 01:21:58,280
Speaker 3: been a lot of highlighting that part of his record.

1446
01:21:58,360 --> 01:22:01,040
Speaker 3: And if Donald Trump's campaign start to highlight that part

1447
01:22:01,080 --> 01:22:03,559
Speaker 3: of his record, I think that makes those numbers tick

1448
01:22:03,640 --> 01:22:06,320
Speaker 3: upwards in a way that Karnaki is saying seventeen percent

1449
01:22:06,400 --> 01:22:09,800
Speaker 3: for a third party candidate. Well, going forward, if you

1450
01:22:10,280 --> 01:22:13,520
Speaker 3: depending on who stays in the race, who goes independent,

1451
01:22:14,160 --> 01:22:17,479
Speaker 3: who stays independent, all these different questions that will be

1452
01:22:17,880 --> 01:22:21,640
Speaker 3: hatched out in less than a year now, that is

1453
01:22:21,720 --> 01:22:25,519
Speaker 3: I mean, if you have two big independent bids. If

1454
01:22:25,560 --> 01:22:29,600
Speaker 3: you have you know, RFK Junior and somebody else. We

1455
01:22:29,680 --> 01:22:33,479
Speaker 3: saw jill Stein actually get you know, not because putin

1456
01:22:33,680 --> 01:22:37,400
Speaker 3: you know, controlled the minds of voters in Pennsylvania and Wisconsin,

1457
01:22:37,479 --> 01:22:39,680
Speaker 3: but we saw jill Stein actually do better than a

1458
01:22:39,720 --> 01:22:42,960
Speaker 3: lot of elites expected her to in twenty sixteen, much

1459
01:22:42,960 --> 01:22:44,960
Speaker 3: of the chagrin of those elites. So if you have

1460
01:22:45,040 --> 01:22:48,479
Speaker 3: someone as high profile as RFK Junior and then someone else,

1461
01:22:48,720 --> 01:22:51,000
Speaker 3: maybe at Cornell West, that gets the type of support

1462
01:22:51,000 --> 01:22:54,200
Speaker 3: that Jill Stein did, you put those two together, that's

1463
01:22:54,240 --> 01:22:57,559
Speaker 3: big trouble for both of the candidates. And I really

1464
01:22:57,600 --> 01:23:01,400
Speaker 3: would expect Crystal heading into the spring here, heading into

1465
01:23:01,400 --> 01:23:04,360
Speaker 3: Iowa and New Hampshire, just in the next couple of months,

1466
01:23:04,600 --> 01:23:07,599
Speaker 3: hysteria about third party candidates is really going to start

1467
01:23:07,680 --> 01:23:08,240
Speaker 3: ramping up.

1468
01:23:08,720 --> 01:23:10,080
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, oh yeah.

1469
01:23:10,240 --> 01:23:15,040
Speaker 1: And I really think that RFK Junior's candidacy has been

1470
01:23:15,400 --> 01:23:19,839
Speaker 1: undercovered thus far in terms of its impact. And I

1471
01:23:19,880 --> 01:23:21,880
Speaker 1: agree with you. You know, when he jumped in the race,

1472
01:23:22,479 --> 01:23:25,240
Speaker 1: the snap take was, oh, this is going to be

1473
01:23:25,280 --> 01:23:28,320
Speaker 1: worse for Trump, and that was a reasonable take because

1474
01:23:28,360 --> 01:23:30,640
Speaker 1: his approval rating with Republicans was much higher than his

1475
01:23:30,640 --> 01:23:33,519
Speaker 1: approval rating with Democrats. But I always thought it would

1476
01:23:33,560 --> 01:23:36,880
Speaker 1: be more complex than that, because, for one thing, what

1477
01:23:36,920 --> 01:23:40,439
Speaker 1: you're pointing to, you know, negative polarization is so strong

1478
01:23:40,720 --> 01:23:42,880
Speaker 1: that if you just have Trump like relentlessly and other

1479
01:23:42,960 --> 01:23:46,519
Speaker 1: right wing figures relentlessly attacking RFK Junior, then you're going

1480
01:23:46,600 --> 01:23:48,880
Speaker 1: to have, you know, a reaction from people who are

1481
01:23:48,920 --> 01:23:50,880
Speaker 1: more liberal, more on the left. You're going to have

1482
01:23:50,920 --> 01:23:53,840
Speaker 1: an opposite reaction from people who are Republicans, and so

1483
01:23:53,920 --> 01:23:57,800
Speaker 1: those numbers could shift. He's a Kennedy, right, That's a

1484
01:23:57,840 --> 01:24:01,439
Speaker 1: big thing in terms of how people about him. And

1485
01:24:02,280 --> 01:24:04,280
Speaker 1: you know, so I always thought it was very possible

1486
01:24:04,320 --> 01:24:06,080
Speaker 1: that the way people were thinking about him shift.

1487
01:24:06,680 --> 01:24:08,200
Speaker 4: You know, in terms of Israel.

1488
01:24:08,840 --> 01:24:11,000
Speaker 1: You could quibble around the margins, but all three of

1489
01:24:11,040 --> 01:24:14,320
Speaker 1: these dudes have basically the same policy, which is unconditional support.

1490
01:24:14,800 --> 01:24:17,800
Speaker 1: Trump would probably not even been doing the like little

1491
01:24:17,800 --> 01:24:19,880
Speaker 1: bit of hand ringing that Joe Biden has been doing.

1492
01:24:20,000 --> 01:24:23,559
Speaker 1: RFK Junior, if anything, is the most most hawkish towards

1493
01:24:23,640 --> 01:24:27,080
Speaker 1: Israel and most pro Israel of all three. But that

1494
01:24:27,080 --> 01:24:30,240
Speaker 1: doesn't mean that young voters who are disgusted with Joe

1495
01:24:30,240 --> 01:24:34,800
Speaker 1: Biden won't vote for you know, an RFK junior or

1496
01:24:34,960 --> 01:24:38,160
Speaker 1: you know, certainly at Cornell West origel Stein just kind

1497
01:24:38,160 --> 01:24:43,320
Speaker 1: of sheer disgusted with what he has actively been doing.

1498
01:24:43,400 --> 01:24:45,440
Speaker 1: You know, It's it's one thing to have a theoretical

1499
01:24:45,479 --> 01:24:47,960
Speaker 1: position on Israel. It's another thing to actually be there

1500
01:24:48,000 --> 01:24:50,840
Speaker 1: sending the bombs that are being dropped on children and

1501
01:24:51,560 --> 01:24:55,240
Speaker 1: destroying you know, schools and hospitals, et cetera.

1502
01:24:55,840 --> 01:24:59,320
Speaker 3: So it's interests if young Democrats in places like ann

1503
01:24:59,439 --> 01:25:03,599
Speaker 3: Arbor and Madison, Wisconsin and all over Pennsylvania either vote

1504
01:25:03,600 --> 01:25:06,639
Speaker 3: for someone else or stay home day home, let alone

1505
01:25:06,800 --> 01:25:08,639
Speaker 3: like vote for someone else. But if they just stay

1506
01:25:08,760 --> 01:25:11,959
Speaker 3: home next November, that does a huge problem in Michigan,

1507
01:25:12,400 --> 01:25:13,759
Speaker 3: Wisconsin for Joe Biden.

1508
01:25:14,320 --> 01:25:18,240
Speaker 1: But Biden's defenders, you know, they've identified the real problem here,

1509
01:25:18,520 --> 01:25:21,759
Speaker 1: which is not the policies. It's not the unconditional support

1510
01:25:21,760 --> 01:25:25,120
Speaker 1: for Israel. It's not the despair. It's not the fact

1511
01:25:25,120 --> 01:25:27,280
Speaker 1: that they feel like he's going to accomplish literally nothing

1512
01:25:27,280 --> 01:25:29,080
Speaker 1: in a second term, which we'll get to in a moment.

1513
01:25:29,320 --> 01:25:30,400
Speaker 4: Put this up on the screen.

1514
01:25:30,920 --> 01:25:34,639
Speaker 1: John Fetterman and other Biden defenders, they see the problem

1515
01:25:34,720 --> 01:25:37,320
Speaker 1: as people who would say a critical word about Joe

1516
01:25:37,360 --> 01:25:38,040
Speaker 1: Biden they're the.

1517
01:25:37,960 --> 01:25:39,240
Speaker 4: Real villains here.

1518
01:25:39,720 --> 01:25:42,360
Speaker 1: And you know, shame on you, John Fetterman for making

1519
01:25:42,360 --> 01:25:46,439
Speaker 1: me defend James Carvill. But Betterman trashed James Carvill for

1520
01:25:46,560 --> 01:25:49,800
Speaker 1: warning of Biden loss, telling him to shut the f up.

1521
01:25:50,080 --> 01:25:53,120
Speaker 1: I'll use this as another opportunity he's told. I believe

1522
01:25:53,160 --> 01:25:55,160
Speaker 1: this is what Politico that he was doing this interview

1523
01:25:55,200 --> 01:25:57,680
Speaker 1: with to tell Carvill to shut the f up. Like

1524
01:25:57,720 --> 01:26:00,320
Speaker 1: I said, my man hasn't been relevant since Grunt was

1525
01:26:00,320 --> 01:26:01,880
Speaker 1: the thing. And I don't know why he believes it's

1526
01:26:01,880 --> 01:26:04,200
Speaker 1: helpful to say these kinds of things about an incredibly

1527
01:26:04,240 --> 01:26:09,519
Speaker 1: difficult circumstance with an incredibly strong and decent and excellent president.

1528
01:26:09,880 --> 01:26:13,439
Speaker 1: I will never understand that. So you know, the real

1529
01:26:13,439 --> 01:26:17,519
Speaker 1: issue here, Emily, is anyone who would point out the

1530
01:26:17,520 --> 01:26:20,120
Speaker 1: fact that Joe Biden has literally the lowest approval rating

1531
01:26:20,200 --> 01:26:22,320
Speaker 1: of any incumbent president seeking reelection.

1532
01:26:23,320 --> 01:26:26,800
Speaker 3: I mean, Joe Biden desperately needs some tough love. And

1533
01:26:26,920 --> 01:26:31,559
Speaker 3: James Carvell, long close to the Clintons or instrumental in

1534
01:26:32,080 --> 01:26:36,040
Speaker 3: Bill Clinton's political successes. Think about what Bill Clinton we

1535
01:26:36,160 --> 01:26:39,040
Speaker 3: now know thanks for reporting, was telling Hillary Clinton's campaign

1536
01:26:39,120 --> 01:26:41,640
Speaker 3: in the fall of twenty sixteen. He was trying to

1537
01:26:42,000 --> 01:26:44,960
Speaker 3: sort of raise a lot of the same red flags

1538
01:26:45,360 --> 01:26:50,040
Speaker 3: that James Carvill has I think calmly but incisively been

1539
01:26:50,160 --> 01:26:52,200
Speaker 3: raising over the last couple of years, but just in

1540
01:26:52,240 --> 01:26:56,280
Speaker 3: recent times too. Its criticisms of the Democratic Party just

1541
01:26:56,320 --> 01:27:00,960
Speaker 3: being coded increasingly as a party of the elites. And

1542
01:27:01,000 --> 01:27:03,960
Speaker 3: we can debate the substance of that, but James Carvell

1543
01:27:04,160 --> 01:27:06,240
Speaker 3: has made some pretty good points about how they come

1544
01:27:06,360 --> 01:27:09,639
Speaker 3: across to voters, the issues they choose to talk about,

1545
01:27:09,720 --> 01:27:12,240
Speaker 3: how they choose to talk about them, all of that.

1546
01:27:13,120 --> 01:27:16,519
Speaker 3: If Joe Biden needs anything right now, let's if I'm

1547
01:27:16,520 --> 01:27:19,200
Speaker 3: putting my you know, I'm at the Biden reelection campaign

1548
01:27:19,280 --> 01:27:21,799
Speaker 3: right now. If he needs anything, it's tough love exactly

1549
01:27:21,800 --> 01:27:25,599
Speaker 3: from people like James Carvell, not bear hugs from people

1550
01:27:25,640 --> 01:27:29,400
Speaker 3: like John Fetterman that tell him everything is fine, Joe

1551
01:27:30,320 --> 01:27:33,679
Speaker 3: even saying it, you know, privately versus publicly. It's important

1552
01:27:33,720 --> 01:27:37,360
Speaker 3: that it's public so that there's pressure for the campaign.

1553
01:27:37,439 --> 01:27:40,160
Speaker 3: There's pressure from Democrats. Again, this is what the Democratic

1554
01:27:40,200 --> 01:27:42,240
Speaker 3: Strategist campaign had on. It's not a hat I like

1555
01:27:42,280 --> 01:27:44,120
Speaker 3: to wear, Crystal, but I will do it for the

1556
01:27:44,120 --> 01:27:49,599
Speaker 3: sake of the show. They need this badly because they're

1557
01:27:49,760 --> 01:27:52,639
Speaker 3: in again. They're going up against, as Hillary Clinton did,

1558
01:27:52,640 --> 01:27:56,720
Speaker 3: the former host of the Celebrity Apprentice, who it's just

1559
01:27:57,479 --> 01:28:00,840
Speaker 3: this should not be hard, but it is for Democrats

1560
01:28:01,600 --> 01:28:04,080
Speaker 3: because they're so And it's same thing for the Republicans

1561
01:28:04,080 --> 01:28:06,280
Speaker 3: that are trying to challenge Trump for the primary, Like

1562
01:28:06,520 --> 01:28:08,840
Speaker 3: why is it hard to beat the former host of

1563
01:28:08,920 --> 01:28:13,679
Speaker 3: Celebrity Apprentice in an election? Because you guys suck, you suck,

1564
01:28:14,160 --> 01:28:16,080
Speaker 3: and they need someone to tell them that.

1565
01:28:16,479 --> 01:28:17,880
Speaker 4: Sometimes it's just that simple.

1566
01:28:17,920 --> 01:28:19,639
Speaker 1: All right, So let's go ahead and take a look

1567
01:28:19,640 --> 01:28:22,160
Speaker 1: at how voters are seeing their choice. This is from

1568
01:28:22,840 --> 01:28:25,479
Speaker 1: the polsters that we partner with for our focus groups

1569
01:28:25,520 --> 01:28:28,200
Speaker 1: jail Partners. They do these great word clouds where they

1570
01:28:28,280 --> 01:28:31,240
Speaker 1: ask voters, Okay, what do you think Biden?

1571
01:28:31,520 --> 01:28:32,519
Speaker 4: And then they ask about Trump.

1572
01:28:32,560 --> 01:28:34,160
Speaker 1: But first of all, what do you think Biden is

1573
01:28:34,200 --> 01:28:37,639
Speaker 1: going to accomplish in a second term as present? Let's

1574
01:28:37,640 --> 01:28:40,080
Speaker 1: put this up on the screen and you can see

1575
01:28:40,760 --> 01:28:44,479
Speaker 1: jumping right down at you the number one choice Nothing.

1576
01:28:45,240 --> 01:28:49,439
Speaker 1: They think he's going to accomplish nothing. The next ones

1577
01:28:49,479 --> 01:28:52,320
Speaker 1: are like economy, it's going to accomplish economy.

1578
01:28:52,320 --> 01:28:53,120
Speaker 4: What does that even mean?

1579
01:28:53,280 --> 01:28:55,759
Speaker 3: It sounds like John Fennman said it that chance.

1580
01:28:56,160 --> 01:29:02,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, moneyocracy is another one. Power is another one, But

1581
01:29:02,200 --> 01:29:04,800
Speaker 1: I mean the top choice, like overwhelmingly if you guys

1582
01:29:04,800 --> 01:29:08,680
Speaker 1: are just listening to this is nothing, which I mean,

1583
01:29:09,120 --> 01:29:13,160
Speaker 1: how can you even really dispute that when he hasn't

1584
01:29:13,200 --> 01:29:17,520
Speaker 1: run on anything. The only thing he was really promising

1585
01:29:17,760 --> 01:29:20,040
Speaker 1: is just like I'll you know, be a bull work

1586
01:29:20,120 --> 01:29:24,120
Speaker 1: against Trump. That's it. It's even on Roe versus Wave,

1587
01:29:24,360 --> 01:29:27,800
Speaker 1: which is such a pivotal and central issue for a

1588
01:29:27,800 --> 01:29:30,080
Speaker 1: lot of Democratic voters. Now it's not like he's promising

1589
01:29:30,120 --> 01:29:32,760
Speaker 1: to do anything on the issue. He is just saying like,

1590
01:29:32,840 --> 01:29:36,040
Speaker 1: I won't make it worse. So nothing to me seems

1591
01:29:36,120 --> 01:29:40,120
Speaker 1: like a pretty logical takeaway from what his goals and

1592
01:29:40,160 --> 01:29:42,360
Speaker 1: the accomplishments are likely to be in a second term.

1593
01:29:42,680 --> 01:29:44,880
Speaker 1: And then they asked the same thing about Trump. What

1594
01:29:44,920 --> 01:29:46,840
Speaker 1: do they think Trump will accomplish? But this stuff on

1595
01:29:46,840 --> 01:29:51,320
Speaker 1: the screen, he said revenge. That was number one for

1596
01:29:51,760 --> 01:29:54,920
Speaker 1: Trump was revenge, And I actually said Donald Trump said it, Well,

1597
01:29:54,960 --> 01:29:57,400
Speaker 1: he kind of did, because he reposted the word cloud

1598
01:29:57,479 --> 01:29:59,639
Speaker 1: and like owned it, like he was proud that that's

1599
01:29:59,680 --> 01:30:00,880
Speaker 1: what will want.

1600
01:30:01,040 --> 01:30:02,080
Speaker 4: I think he'll accomplish.

1601
01:30:02,080 --> 01:30:05,480
Speaker 1: And then you know, next to his power, you've got economy,

1602
01:30:05,560 --> 01:30:09,720
Speaker 1: you've got dictatorship. You actually have also dictator pops up

1603
01:30:09,760 --> 01:30:10,840
Speaker 1: there America.

1604
01:30:11,080 --> 01:30:12,360
Speaker 4: So that's funny.

1605
01:30:13,000 --> 01:30:14,880
Speaker 1: Some people were like, what is Donald Trump going to

1606
01:30:14,880 --> 01:30:16,879
Speaker 1: accomplish in a second term America.

1607
01:30:17,080 --> 01:30:18,439
Speaker 4: I think he'll accomplish America.

1608
01:30:18,640 --> 01:30:20,439
Speaker 3: That will accomplish economy in America.

1609
01:30:21,360 --> 01:30:25,920
Speaker 1: There you go. There's our choices, guys, between nothing and revenge.

1610
01:30:26,479 --> 01:30:27,240
Speaker 4: Pick your poison.

1611
01:30:27,800 --> 01:30:30,559
Speaker 3: Well, christ I also wonder to what extent the nothing

1612
01:30:30,760 --> 01:30:33,320
Speaker 3: is part of the Biden strategy as well, because to

1613
01:30:33,360 --> 01:30:35,360
Speaker 3: your point, he does seem to be running on this

1614
01:30:35,400 --> 01:30:38,320
Speaker 3: idea that he's a bulwark against trump Ism, that he

1615
01:30:38,400 --> 01:30:41,960
Speaker 3: will just sort of stand in the way as a

1616
01:30:42,240 --> 01:30:45,960
Speaker 3: kind of a rubber stamp against the forces, as he says,

1617
01:30:46,040 --> 01:30:49,160
Speaker 3: of the forces against democracy that you know, I will

1618
01:30:49,200 --> 01:30:53,360
Speaker 3: be here, my ministration will be here again. Though that

1619
01:30:53,439 --> 01:30:57,240
Speaker 3: might be an electoral strategy that has some benefits in

1620
01:30:57,320 --> 01:31:01,400
Speaker 3: the long term, that does not defeat the part of

1621
01:31:01,400 --> 01:31:05,800
Speaker 3: trump Ism that has anti democratic impulses. And I think

1622
01:31:05,800 --> 01:31:08,880
Speaker 3: that's a fair enough argument, as hysterical as I think

1623
01:31:08,920 --> 01:31:13,200
Speaker 3: some people who can sometimes be about that case, I think,

1624
01:31:13,240 --> 01:31:16,400
Speaker 3: you know, Donald Trump posting work cloud saying that the

1625
01:31:17,280 --> 01:31:21,200
Speaker 3: accomplishing revenge is sort of a funny point to that extent.

1626
01:31:21,600 --> 01:31:25,559
Speaker 3: And the reason that this doesn't accomplish the defeat of

1627
01:31:25,760 --> 01:31:27,880
Speaker 3: those parts of Trump is in the long term is

1628
01:31:27,920 --> 01:31:31,839
Speaker 3: because people are turning to Trump in desperation for the substance,

1629
01:31:31,920 --> 01:31:34,080
Speaker 3: as we just talked about. So like if you're not

1630
01:31:34,439 --> 01:31:38,920
Speaker 3: if Joe Biden isn't running on you know, real wages,

1631
01:31:38,960 --> 01:31:43,040
Speaker 3: for example, real wages are not increasing because inflation is

1632
01:31:43,080 --> 01:31:45,160
Speaker 3: stubborn and there are science that it's going in the

1633
01:31:45,240 --> 01:31:47,640
Speaker 3: right direction, but overall it has not gone under the

1634
01:31:47,720 --> 01:31:50,519
Speaker 3: right direction. And the Biden economy, student loans are a

1635
01:31:50,600 --> 01:31:54,160
Speaker 3: huge problem for a big chunk of the population right now.

1636
01:31:55,040 --> 01:31:59,840
Speaker 3: People turn to, whether it's whether it's Trump or someone

1637
01:31:59,840 --> 01:32:03,840
Speaker 3: for the left, they turn in desperation when the substance

1638
01:32:03,920 --> 01:32:07,200
Speaker 3: is not delivered on. And so it's actually really dangerous

1639
01:32:07,240 --> 01:32:10,120
Speaker 3: to think you can just continue to elect your way

1640
01:32:10,280 --> 01:32:15,439
Speaker 3: out of what feels like an autocratic hole to some people,

1641
01:32:15,520 --> 01:32:18,640
Speaker 3: to Joe Biden and his folks, to say, we're just

1642
01:32:18,680 --> 01:32:21,559
Speaker 3: going to keep electing Democrats and that will keep Donald

1643
01:32:21,600 --> 01:32:24,080
Speaker 3: Trump at bay until one of our points of law

1644
01:32:24,120 --> 01:32:27,640
Speaker 3: fair is successful he's in prison. That does nothing to

1645
01:32:27,680 --> 01:32:29,760
Speaker 3: eradicate Trump is and there's an argument we were just

1646
01:32:29,760 --> 01:32:32,400
Speaker 3: talking about the polling that it makes him stronger because

1647
01:32:32,400 --> 01:32:35,880
Speaker 3: there's some voters really don't like it, and it sort

1648
01:32:35,920 --> 01:32:39,120
Speaker 3: of can heighten tensions in the country in ways that

1649
01:32:39,280 --> 01:32:42,280
Speaker 3: push people more to Trump's side. We don't know, you know,

1650
01:32:42,720 --> 01:32:44,920
Speaker 3: some evidence that would happen, But the bottom line is

1651
01:32:44,960 --> 01:32:47,479
Speaker 3: we do know. People are right that the substance isn't

1652
01:32:47,520 --> 01:32:51,840
Speaker 3: being delivered on and so the most moral and effective

1653
01:32:51,840 --> 01:32:54,439
Speaker 3: way to tackle this problem would actually be to try

1654
01:32:54,439 --> 01:32:56,920
Speaker 3: and improve the daily lives of Americans. But of course

1655
01:32:57,600 --> 01:32:58,240
Speaker 3: they can't do that.

1656
01:32:58,720 --> 01:33:02,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, indeed, yeah, I mean, in a sense, both nothing

1657
01:33:02,880 --> 01:33:06,160
Speaker 1: and revenge are like just oppositional.

1658
01:33:06,479 --> 01:33:06,720
Speaker 4: You know.

1659
01:33:06,760 --> 01:33:08,840
Speaker 1: The nothing is like I'll beat Donald Trump and then

1660
01:33:08,880 --> 01:33:10,920
Speaker 1: I won't do all the crazy shit, like it won't

1661
01:33:10,960 --> 01:33:13,000
Speaker 1: be chaos, I won't do all the crazy shit that

1662
01:33:13,000 --> 01:33:16,519
Speaker 1: they would do. And for Trump, obviously, revenge is like, oh,

1663
01:33:16,600 --> 01:33:18,280
Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm going to own the Libs the way

1664
01:33:18,280 --> 01:33:19,920
Speaker 1: that you want me to, which has always been like

1665
01:33:20,000 --> 01:33:22,479
Speaker 1: a core of his appeal. And again, if people don't

1666
01:33:22,520 --> 01:33:27,320
Speaker 1: have an expectation that these leaders and this democratic system

1667
01:33:27,360 --> 01:33:29,240
Speaker 1: is going to deliver for them in any real way,

1668
01:33:29,960 --> 01:33:34,960
Speaker 1: just an oppositional message holds some level of appeal, so

1669
01:33:35,000 --> 01:33:37,880
Speaker 1: it's not an accident that they both land in that place.

1670
01:33:40,800 --> 01:33:43,880
Speaker 3: Let's move on to the new Sager broke over the

1671
01:33:43,960 --> 01:33:47,400
Speaker 3: Christmas Break, the Holiday break, Crystal. I want to actually

1672
01:33:47,479 --> 01:33:50,679
Speaker 3: just start here with the clip. If folks didn't see

1673
01:33:50,960 --> 01:33:54,920
Speaker 3: Sager's interview here on Breaking Points with Tucker Carlson, they

1674
01:33:54,960 --> 01:33:57,840
Speaker 3: should absolutely check that out on the channel. But here's

1675
01:33:57,840 --> 01:34:02,519
Speaker 3: the part of the interview that pretty viral because Tucker

1676
01:34:02,560 --> 01:34:05,920
Speaker 3: Carlson took a pretty big shot at one of the

1677
01:34:05,920 --> 01:34:09,400
Speaker 3: most successful commentators on the right, one of the biggest

1678
01:34:09,400 --> 01:34:12,360
Speaker 3: podcast hosts in the country, let alone on the right,

1679
01:34:12,439 --> 01:34:13,479
Speaker 3: and that's been Shapiro.

1680
01:34:13,680 --> 01:34:16,320
Speaker 2: There was a lot of consternation around some comments you made,

1681
01:34:16,320 --> 01:34:18,280
Speaker 2: I think by Ben Shapiro another where we were like, well,

1682
01:34:18,320 --> 01:34:21,160
Speaker 2: I've never seen this level of care about Americans who

1683
01:34:21,160 --> 01:34:24,080
Speaker 2: are dying of fentanol, which I think is a traditional

1684
01:34:24,320 --> 01:34:28,640
Speaker 2: nationalist message, and yet I've watched the entire kind of

1685
01:34:28,720 --> 01:34:31,920
Speaker 2: right wing ecosystem get embroiled and fundamentally what is the

1686
01:34:31,960 --> 01:34:35,080
Speaker 2: Third World conflict? Now we can say support, you know,

1687
01:34:35,160 --> 01:34:38,080
Speaker 2: not support, We can have criticisms, etc. For that, but

1688
01:34:38,120 --> 01:34:43,080
Speaker 2: what explains this, Like literal allegiance to narrative on Ukraine

1689
01:34:43,200 --> 01:34:45,559
Speaker 2: on Israel. Why is it that so many of these

1690
01:34:45,560 --> 01:34:48,439
Speaker 2: people don't seem to have the same level of care

1691
01:34:48,560 --> 01:34:51,320
Speaker 2: for actual American citizens, you know.

1692
01:34:51,280 --> 01:34:52,680
Speaker 8: I find it really distressing.

1693
01:34:52,920 --> 01:34:55,479
Speaker 5: And in both of those conflicts, I approached it with

1694
01:34:55,520 --> 01:34:57,639
Speaker 5: a clean conscience because I just don't have strong feelings

1695
01:34:57,680 --> 01:34:59,760
Speaker 5: one way the other. And I'm not hostile. I've never

1696
01:34:59,760 --> 01:35:02,280
Speaker 5: hate Ukraine. I don't have any feelings about Ukraine and

1697
01:35:02,400 --> 01:35:04,280
Speaker 5: Russia the same thing. I've never been to either place,

1698
01:35:04,320 --> 01:35:06,720
Speaker 5: and I'm not invested emotionally, so I could just I

1699
01:35:06,720 --> 01:35:08,920
Speaker 5: could just look at it from an American perspective. In

1700
01:35:08,920 --> 01:35:11,360
Speaker 5: the case of Israel and the Arab world, I've spent

1701
01:35:11,479 --> 01:35:13,320
Speaker 5: a fair amount of time in both, and I like both.

1702
01:35:13,920 --> 01:35:16,800
Speaker 5: And I felt terrible for the people who were killed

1703
01:35:16,840 --> 01:35:19,519
Speaker 5: on October seventh. I still do, so I didn't I

1704
01:35:19,640 --> 01:35:22,000
Speaker 5: had no weird motive. I was just like, thinking about

1705
01:35:22,000 --> 01:35:23,840
Speaker 5: it from an American perspective, is this good for us?

1706
01:35:23,920 --> 01:35:24,320
Speaker 8: Or is it not?

1707
01:35:24,520 --> 01:35:28,479
Speaker 5: And I was just amazed by the intolerance and the

1708
01:35:28,520 --> 01:35:33,320
Speaker 5: willingness to immediately go to invective and character assassination. And

1709
01:35:33,360 --> 01:35:35,400
Speaker 5: it's like what I said, you know, First of all,

1710
01:35:35,800 --> 01:35:38,599
Speaker 5: if the people who live in Goza are being moved

1711
01:35:38,600 --> 01:35:42,639
Speaker 5: out are so evil and dangerous that they can't live

1712
01:35:42,680 --> 01:35:44,840
Speaker 5: in the region, why would you want them to move

1713
01:35:44,880 --> 01:35:45,880
Speaker 5: into my country?

1714
01:35:46,000 --> 01:35:48,120
Speaker 4: It Tucker, by the way, then continued along these lines.

1715
01:35:48,160 --> 01:35:50,759
Speaker 9: He didn't interview with the vag Ramaswami, and he likened

1716
01:35:50,800 --> 01:35:54,760
Speaker 9: what just happened in Israel, the kidnapping of women and

1717
01:35:54,800 --> 01:35:56,759
Speaker 9: their rape. I mean, he's showing video of this happening,

1718
01:35:56,800 --> 01:35:59,120
Speaker 9: like as he's talking about this. He compared that to

1719
01:35:59,360 --> 01:36:02,439
Speaker 9: drug over to deaths in the United States. Now, I

1720
01:36:02,479 --> 01:36:04,920
Speaker 9: believe we should fully care about the one hundred thousand

1721
01:36:04,960 --> 01:36:06,840
Speaker 9: drug overdose deaths that happened in the United States. These

1722
01:36:06,880 --> 01:36:10,320
Speaker 9: are two completely different issues. To go this firefield to

1723
01:36:10,360 --> 01:36:12,840
Speaker 9: link the issues. The only reason you're doing this is

1724
01:36:12,880 --> 01:36:15,040
Speaker 9: because you wish to downplay the atrocity that just happened

1725
01:36:15,040 --> 01:36:17,720
Speaker 9: in Israel. You're not up playing the atrocity of what's

1726
01:36:17,720 --> 01:36:20,160
Speaker 9: happening on America's streets. Those are two different types of atrocities.

1727
01:36:20,840 --> 01:36:23,000
Speaker 9: People who are addicted to fentanyl sticking needles in their

1728
01:36:23,080 --> 01:36:27,800
Speaker 9: arms and overdosing is a is a moral blight. It

1729
01:36:27,880 --> 01:36:30,280
Speaker 9: is a moral atrocity and a moral evil for people

1730
01:36:30,280 --> 01:36:32,640
Speaker 9: to kidnap women, rape them and drag them back to

1731
01:36:32,640 --> 01:36:34,439
Speaker 9: the gods of border. Those are not the same thing,

1732
01:36:34,960 --> 01:36:37,960
Speaker 9: and Tucker knows that. But this is a cheap way

1733
01:36:38,280 --> 01:36:41,320
Speaker 9: of telling you not to look, don't look, stop caring,

1734
01:36:41,800 --> 01:36:43,000
Speaker 9: because after all, what does it matter?

1735
01:36:44,040 --> 01:36:44,639
Speaker 8: What does it matter?

1736
01:36:44,680 --> 01:36:44,840
Speaker 1: Now?

1737
01:36:44,840 --> 01:36:46,760
Speaker 9: Again, I don't know who thinks that that's a sophisticated

1738
01:36:46,800 --> 01:36:49,360
Speaker 9: point of view, especially when nobody is calling for America

1739
01:36:49,400 --> 01:36:51,240
Speaker 9: to go to war with Iran. The entire purpose of

1740
01:36:51,240 --> 01:36:53,880
Speaker 9: having an aircraft carry in the Mediterranean is to avoid that.

1741
01:36:54,120 --> 01:36:55,960
Speaker 9: But here is Tucker playing. Well, I don't even know

1742
01:36:55,960 --> 01:36:57,800
Speaker 9: the game he's playing. This is just a dumb It's

1743
01:36:57,800 --> 01:36:58,479
Speaker 9: a dumb game.

1744
01:36:58,720 --> 01:37:01,000
Speaker 3: So this has all been crystal, This has all been

1745
01:37:01,080 --> 01:37:05,240
Speaker 3: kind of snowballing. After the vague thing. Then Sager brought

1746
01:37:05,320 --> 01:37:08,839
Speaker 3: up with Tucker, and that's how this all started rolling.

1747
01:37:09,040 --> 01:37:13,400
Speaker 3: And this is interesting because it represents a divide in

1748
01:37:13,479 --> 01:37:16,519
Speaker 3: the conservative movement really since the inception of the conservative movement,

1749
01:37:16,560 --> 01:37:19,679
Speaker 3: and Sager was getting at that's that's really what Sager

1750
01:37:19,840 --> 01:37:23,200
Speaker 3: was talking about. This is about the sort of paleo

1751
01:37:23,320 --> 01:37:27,400
Speaker 3: conservative argument that's been around since Pat Buchanan, even since

1752
01:37:27,479 --> 01:37:32,160
Speaker 3: like Ross Perrot but others have have made similar arguments,

1753
01:37:32,360 --> 01:37:35,920
Speaker 3: and that's where the personal disagreement I think is the

1754
01:37:36,080 --> 01:37:41,080
Speaker 3: least helpful. From what I just saw from Ben, who

1755
01:37:41,240 --> 01:37:43,400
Speaker 3: you know, I agree with on a lot but disagree

1756
01:37:43,439 --> 01:37:46,360
Speaker 3: with on some stuff as it pertains to Israel, he's

1757
01:37:47,040 --> 01:37:49,360
Speaker 3: I think, further to the right of a lot of

1758
01:37:49,439 --> 01:37:53,040
Speaker 3: Republicans on Israel. He would probably admit that himself. I

1759
01:37:53,040 --> 01:37:55,920
Speaker 3: do think Lindsey Graham basically is calling people like Lindsay

1760
01:37:55,920 --> 01:37:58,160
Speaker 3: Graham and Lindsay Graham included are basically calling for a

1761
01:37:58,160 --> 01:38:00,960
Speaker 3: war with a run right, you know, and things that

1762
01:38:01,240 --> 01:38:07,080
Speaker 3: we surely know would likely spark a much broader, deadlier conflict.

1763
01:38:07,160 --> 01:38:09,240
Speaker 3: So I don't agree on that point. I think people

1764
01:38:09,280 --> 01:38:11,400
Speaker 3: actually are putting us in danger of a war with

1765
01:38:11,439 --> 01:38:13,960
Speaker 3: iron I agree with Talker on that point and disagree

1766
01:38:14,000 --> 01:38:16,720
Speaker 3: with Ben on that point. But the kind of personal

1767
01:38:17,840 --> 01:38:21,400
Speaker 3: back and forth there, I think is unhelpful because it

1768
01:38:21,479 --> 01:38:24,120
Speaker 3: becomes one thing I've seen more and more from the

1769
01:38:24,200 --> 01:38:26,320
Speaker 3: right reminds me of something I saw a lot on

1770
01:38:26,400 --> 01:38:29,240
Speaker 3: the left in the aughts. As the left was I

1771
01:38:29,280 --> 01:38:32,479
Speaker 3: think much more deft at using digital tools like YouTube

1772
01:38:33,240 --> 01:38:37,639
Speaker 3: and social media. It became sort of soap operas. There

1773
01:38:37,680 --> 01:38:41,160
Speaker 3: became this bubble of soap operas driven by personality beefs.

1774
01:38:42,560 --> 01:38:45,880
Speaker 3: Great for clicks, great for ratings and all of that,

1775
01:38:46,160 --> 01:38:51,400
Speaker 3: but not super helpful towards the end of landing on

1776
01:38:51,920 --> 01:38:56,240
Speaker 3: the most moral version of the conservative argument. And I guess,

1777
01:38:56,320 --> 01:38:58,400
Speaker 3: you know, I don't think it's super helpful for the

1778
01:38:58,640 --> 01:39:00,800
Speaker 3: personal distractions to get in the way of what is

1779
01:39:00,880 --> 01:39:04,400
Speaker 3: a subsistant substantively. I don't think either of them should

1780
01:39:04,439 --> 01:39:07,559
Speaker 3: be saying the other person doesn't care about the lives

1781
01:39:07,600 --> 01:39:11,479
Speaker 3: on either side. You know, I don't think that about

1782
01:39:11,479 --> 01:39:13,920
Speaker 3: either of them. I think there's a legitimate question though,

1783
01:39:14,080 --> 01:39:17,880
Speaker 3: of American interest, and I think it sucks if personal

1784
01:39:17,880 --> 01:39:21,600
Speaker 3: disagreements get in the way of actually debating substantively what

1785
01:39:21,720 --> 01:39:24,400
Speaker 3: America's interest is and israelined in Ukraine.

1786
01:39:25,280 --> 01:39:27,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, So, I mean, what you basically see here is

1787
01:39:27,400 --> 01:39:34,080
Speaker 1: a divide between paleo conservatism and neo conservatism, and I

1788
01:39:34,160 --> 01:39:37,240
Speaker 1: subscribe to neither philosophy. So I disagree with both of

1789
01:39:37,240 --> 01:39:38,400
Speaker 1: them in different ways.

1790
01:39:38,720 --> 01:39:38,880
Speaker 2: Right.

1791
01:39:40,439 --> 01:39:47,280
Speaker 1: Obviously, Shapiro is, you know, very and understandably as anyone

1792
01:39:47,320 --> 01:39:50,720
Speaker 1: should be horrified at the atrocities that were committed on

1793
01:39:50,880 --> 01:39:55,120
Speaker 1: October seventh, he does not care about what is happening

1794
01:39:55,160 --> 01:39:58,479
Speaker 1: to Gaza, civilians in Gaza in the same way that

1795
01:39:58,520 --> 01:40:01,639
Speaker 1: he cared about what happened to civilians in Israel. And

1796
01:40:01,680 --> 01:40:04,840
Speaker 1: he is incredibly hawkish. And by the way, oh my god,

1797
01:40:04,880 --> 01:40:07,240
Speaker 1: the cat just jumped on the table. And by the way,

1798
01:40:07,439 --> 01:40:12,839
Speaker 1: there's Salem, by the way, incredibly dishonest about the history

1799
01:40:13,000 --> 01:40:16,679
Speaker 1: that let us here and basically justify any Israeli action.

1800
01:40:16,960 --> 01:40:20,840
Speaker 1: I dramatically disagree with that. And it comes from a

1801
01:40:20,920 --> 01:40:24,000
Speaker 1: variety of places. I mean, you know, there's lots of

1802
01:40:25,760 --> 01:40:30,200
Speaker 1: I think there is an appropriate pointing out of hypocrisy

1803
01:40:30,320 --> 01:40:33,599
Speaker 1: with regards to this. Is a manned Ben Shapiro, who

1804
01:40:33,680 --> 01:40:37,679
Speaker 1: has made living and become extremely wealthy with a core

1805
01:40:37,840 --> 01:40:42,839
Speaker 1: argument against identity politics and against quote unquote cancel culture

1806
01:40:42,880 --> 01:40:45,479
Speaker 1: and like the safe space on college campuses stuff, and

1807
01:40:45,680 --> 01:40:48,200
Speaker 1: you know, supposed commit meant to free speech. All of

1808
01:40:48,240 --> 01:40:50,360
Speaker 1: that has been tossed out the window when it comes

1809
01:40:50,400 --> 01:40:52,960
Speaker 1: to a cause that he is very very concerned about,

1810
01:40:53,000 --> 01:40:56,679
Speaker 1: in part because of his identity. So that's the Shapiro side,

1811
01:40:56,840 --> 01:41:01,120
Speaker 1: you know, on the paleo conservative side, this argument of like, well,

1812
01:41:01,160 --> 01:41:05,600
Speaker 1: I don't know why you care. I can't wrap my

1813
01:41:05,680 --> 01:41:08,439
Speaker 1: head around that. For a variety of reasons here. I mean,

1814
01:41:08,479 --> 01:41:13,360
Speaker 1: first of all, for me, what really looms very large

1815
01:41:13,800 --> 01:41:17,679
Speaker 1: is the just moral catastrophe that is unfolding on our watch,

1816
01:41:17,720 --> 01:41:20,160
Speaker 1: with our dollars, with our diplomatic cover, et cetera. I mean,

1817
01:41:20,160 --> 01:41:22,880
Speaker 1: this is the most devastating war documented now by a

1818
01:41:22,960 --> 01:41:25,479
Speaker 1: number of Western media outlets that we've seen in this century.

1819
01:41:25,800 --> 01:41:29,160
Speaker 1: More journalists killed, more children killed, more buildings destroyed, more

1820
01:41:29,200 --> 01:41:33,799
Speaker 1: civilian infrastructure destroyed, more people starving to death, like something

1821
01:41:34,240 --> 01:41:39,160
Speaker 1: unprecedented is happening before our eyes. And so to have

1822
01:41:39,280 --> 01:41:41,960
Speaker 1: this view of like, well, I don't get why you

1823
01:41:42,000 --> 01:41:44,719
Speaker 1: care about that. I just I just can't really wrap

1824
01:41:44,760 --> 01:41:48,400
Speaker 1: my head around that. And then if you also consider

1825
01:41:49,160 --> 01:41:52,120
Speaker 1: that it's not like this is just some with regard

1826
01:41:52,200 --> 01:41:54,200
Speaker 1: to Israel and Gaza, that this is just some random

1827
01:41:54,200 --> 01:41:56,240
Speaker 1: conflict around the world that doesn't impact us.

1828
01:41:56,280 --> 01:41:56,920
Speaker 4: Are you kidding me?

1829
01:41:56,960 --> 01:41:59,040
Speaker 1: Do you know how much money we have sent to

1830
01:41:59,240 --> 01:42:02,800
Speaker 1: Israel all of these years, and how close our relationship is,

1831
01:42:02,840 --> 01:42:05,920
Speaker 1: and how deeply we're implicated in all of this. And

1832
01:42:05,960 --> 01:42:08,160
Speaker 1: you can take the position like the Vake rama swimming

1833
01:42:08,240 --> 01:42:10,880
Speaker 1: does for example, of like listen, they can do what

1834
01:42:11,240 --> 01:42:13,479
Speaker 1: they want, We're just like, we're not going to fund it,

1835
01:42:13,520 --> 01:42:16,519
Speaker 1: and Okay, that's fine, but that doesn't erase the fact

1836
01:42:16,560 --> 01:42:19,240
Speaker 1: that we are, like have been hand in glove with

1837
01:42:19,400 --> 01:42:23,160
Speaker 1: them for years and years and years. So even if

1838
01:42:23,160 --> 01:42:26,439
Speaker 1: that's your policy once you're president, et cetera, you know,

1839
01:42:26,520 --> 01:42:31,720
Speaker 1: that doesn't erase our responsibility and implicate us directly and

1840
01:42:31,760 --> 01:42:34,040
Speaker 1: what's happening there, not to mention, of course, all of

1841
01:42:34,080 --> 01:42:36,960
Speaker 1: the implications about how this can spark security threats for US,

1842
01:42:36,960 --> 01:42:40,000
Speaker 1: how this can spark security concerns for our troops in

1843
01:42:40,040 --> 01:42:42,360
Speaker 1: the region, how this can draw us into a broader war.

1844
01:42:42,920 --> 01:42:47,679
Speaker 1: So on every level, the paleo conservative view of like, well,

1845
01:42:47,680 --> 01:42:49,320
Speaker 1: we just shouldn't care about it and I don't know

1846
01:42:49,360 --> 01:42:52,800
Speaker 1: why everybody is so upset about this doesn't land for me.

1847
01:42:53,240 --> 01:42:55,200
Speaker 1: So that's why I say, like, I don't have a

1848
01:42:55,200 --> 01:42:57,600
Speaker 1: dog in for this fight, because in different ways, like

1849
01:42:57,640 --> 01:43:00,600
Speaker 1: I don't subscribe to either of their ideologies, and in

1850
01:43:00,640 --> 01:43:03,559
Speaker 1: different ways I really disagree with them. But the one

1851
01:43:03,600 --> 01:43:07,080
Speaker 1: piece that you know, I will say I think is

1852
01:43:07,120 --> 01:43:10,519
Speaker 1: appropriate to shine a light on by people who are

1853
01:43:10,600 --> 01:43:13,360
Speaker 1: paleo conservatives, which is like Tucker, which is like, you know,

1854
01:43:13,400 --> 01:43:16,280
Speaker 1: I think Sager would put himself probably in that category.

1855
01:43:16,479 --> 01:43:19,320
Speaker 1: Is you had all these people during the Trump era

1856
01:43:19,720 --> 01:43:23,520
Speaker 1: on the right who ran around calling themselves America first

1857
01:43:23,720 --> 01:43:27,880
Speaker 1: and aligning themselves like they were paleo conservatives, and then

1858
01:43:27,920 --> 01:43:28,920
Speaker 1: the minute.

1859
01:43:28,600 --> 01:43:32,080
Speaker 4: That it's Israel, it all changed. Just now.

1860
01:43:32,120 --> 01:43:33,840
Speaker 1: I don't know that I would really put would you

1861
01:43:33,880 --> 01:43:36,800
Speaker 1: put Shapiro in that category though, because I think you know,

1862
01:43:36,880 --> 01:43:39,519
Speaker 1: he's he was a Ted Cruz guy, like he never.

1863
01:43:39,439 --> 01:43:41,479
Speaker 4: Was the biggest Trump guy.

1864
01:43:42,200 --> 01:43:45,440
Speaker 1: So on the cancel culture stuff, free speech stuff, total hypocrite.

1865
01:43:45,840 --> 01:43:48,200
Speaker 1: On foreign policy, I'm not so sure, but there are

1866
01:43:48,200 --> 01:43:52,760
Speaker 1: plenty of other people who cloak themselves in I only

1867
01:43:52,800 --> 01:43:56,040
Speaker 1: care about America America first. Who the minute it's Israel,

1868
01:43:56,120 --> 01:43:58,960
Speaker 1: they're like, ship the weapons, ship the eight dollars, get

1869
01:43:59,040 --> 01:44:02,360
Speaker 1: us involved, go to war with the run because it

1870
01:44:02,400 --> 01:44:04,639
Speaker 1: happens to be, you know, a country, but they feel

1871
01:44:04,720 --> 01:44:08,120
Speaker 1: really tied to for a variety of reasons.

1872
01:44:09,120 --> 01:44:12,760
Speaker 3: You know. I was actually just gonna say, you know,

1873
01:44:12,880 --> 01:44:15,519
Speaker 3: the I went and watched Ben Shapiro did his his

1874
01:44:15,560 --> 01:44:19,040
Speaker 3: Sunday special with Tarker Carlson five years ago, and they

1875
01:44:19,040 --> 01:44:22,000
Speaker 3: had a really you know, interesting debate, interesting conversation. They

1876
01:44:22,000 --> 01:44:23,920
Speaker 3: didn't agree with each other on everything. And you know,

1877
01:44:23,960 --> 01:44:25,920
Speaker 3: remember five years ago that sort of smack in the

1878
01:44:25,920 --> 01:44:27,960
Speaker 3: middle of a lot of these changes in the Republican

1879
01:44:28,000 --> 01:44:30,040
Speaker 3: Party and in the middle of the kind of Trump phenomena,

1880
01:44:30,479 --> 01:44:33,519
Speaker 3: and it was really friendly and it was it was

1881
01:44:33,600 --> 01:44:35,599
Speaker 3: like a very I thought it was a very helpful,

1882
01:44:35,680 --> 01:44:41,920
Speaker 3: like hour long interview. And that's interesting because yes, like

1883
01:44:42,200 --> 01:44:46,599
Speaker 3: Israel is becoming one of those clarifying moments for where

1884
01:44:46,600 --> 01:44:50,479
Speaker 3: the Republican Party wants to go. And that's why, again,

1885
01:44:50,520 --> 01:44:55,120
Speaker 3: I feel like the personal stuff isn't super helpful because

1886
01:44:55,479 --> 01:44:58,840
Speaker 3: there's something serious that underlies a lot of this. I

1887
01:44:58,880 --> 01:45:02,280
Speaker 3: was on a panel earlier this year and about the

1888
01:45:02,400 --> 01:45:05,800
Speaker 3: kind of new Right for a bunch of political science professors,

1889
01:45:05,800 --> 01:45:09,000
Speaker 3: and one of the other panelists, i think, said something

1890
01:45:09,040 --> 01:45:13,600
Speaker 3: about the new Right being anti war, and you know,

1891
01:45:14,439 --> 01:45:17,200
Speaker 3: a lot of the members of the New Right want

1892
01:45:17,200 --> 01:45:21,200
Speaker 3: to bomb cartels, like that's long been a part of

1893
01:45:21,400 --> 01:45:24,559
Speaker 3: this sort of America First philosophy. It is not as

1894
01:45:24,760 --> 01:45:28,519
Speaker 3: clear cut sort of Buchanonist because they would kind of

1895
01:45:28,560 --> 01:45:32,599
Speaker 3: gladly hand contracts to Lockheed and Raytheon to bomb the

1896
01:45:32,640 --> 01:45:36,040
Speaker 3: hell out of Sineloa in Mexico right next door to us,

1897
01:45:36,960 --> 01:45:41,280
Speaker 3: so it doesn't totally work or China, right or China, Yes, absolutely,

1898
01:45:41,320 --> 01:45:45,160
Speaker 3: And that's one of the things that I think, you know, Ben,

1899
01:45:45,360 --> 01:45:48,280
Speaker 3: I like both Ben and Tucker, and that to me

1900
01:45:48,520 --> 01:45:52,160
Speaker 3: in and of itself is interesting because you know, I'm

1901
01:45:52,160 --> 01:45:56,240
Speaker 3: not a fan of many genuine neo conservatives, and I

1902
01:45:56,240 --> 01:46:00,640
Speaker 3: feel like Ben was one of the few people on

1903
01:46:00,760 --> 01:46:03,400
Speaker 3: the right that was kind of humbled by his experience

1904
01:46:03,479 --> 01:46:07,720
Speaker 3: with with trump Ism and didn't abandon different principles, but

1905
01:46:07,800 --> 01:46:10,320
Speaker 3: did think differently about certain things when it came to

1906
01:46:10,360 --> 01:46:13,519
Speaker 3: foreign policy. Obviously, Israel wasn't one of those things the

1907
01:46:13,560 --> 01:46:18,040
Speaker 3: Trump administration. Ben was very favorable to what they did

1908
01:46:18,040 --> 01:46:20,680
Speaker 3: with the Abraham Accords, and the Trump administration wasn't much

1909
01:46:20,680 --> 01:46:24,800
Speaker 3: different on on Israel either. But that that argument, I

1910
01:46:24,800 --> 01:46:28,439
Speaker 3: think the most charitable version of the Tucker argument is

1911
01:46:28,439 --> 01:46:34,439
Speaker 3: that it's our attention to Israel comes at needlessly at

1912
01:46:34,479 --> 01:46:37,839
Speaker 3: the expense of our attention to suffering in the United States,

1913
01:46:38,520 --> 01:46:42,560
Speaker 3: and that again, like that's the most charitable version of it.

1914
01:46:42,640 --> 01:46:45,680
Speaker 3: So that that's again the kind of a different conversation,

1915
01:46:46,360 --> 01:46:49,040
Speaker 3: and that's a different sort of burden of proof. You know, what,

1916
01:46:49,040 --> 01:46:51,679
Speaker 3: what are we doing abroad that we could be doing

1917
01:46:51,720 --> 01:46:54,160
Speaker 3: home when when it comes to attention, when it comes

1918
01:46:54,240 --> 01:46:57,600
Speaker 3: to money, there's an argument there, but it's sort of

1919
01:46:57,600 --> 01:46:59,840
Speaker 3: different than what was happening in that exchange too.

1920
01:47:00,439 --> 01:47:05,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then there's the you know, very fraught Tucker

1921
01:47:05,080 --> 01:47:09,679
Speaker 1: has been accused of, you know, promoting the anti Semitic

1922
01:47:09,760 --> 01:47:15,840
Speaker 1: trope that Shapiro has like dual loyalties, right, And you know,

1923
01:47:15,960 --> 01:47:21,080
Speaker 1: Israel is leads a lot of people to justify things

1924
01:47:21,080 --> 01:47:23,960
Speaker 1: that should not be justified. And I think it happens

1925
01:47:24,000 --> 01:47:26,880
Speaker 1: on a variety of levels. I think it's number one,

1926
01:47:27,280 --> 01:47:30,719
Speaker 1: there's all this just legacy cold War, and you see

1927
01:47:30,720 --> 01:47:34,240
Speaker 1: this in the Age Divide of like, you know, there's

1928
01:47:34,439 --> 01:47:35,880
Speaker 1: the people a lot of the countries that are on

1929
01:47:35,920 --> 01:47:37,559
Speaker 1: our side, and then there's the countries that are on

1930
01:47:37,600 --> 01:47:39,800
Speaker 1: the other side. And Israel's one of the countries on

1931
01:47:39,840 --> 01:47:42,960
Speaker 1: our side, therefore we should stand with them, period, end

1932
01:47:43,000 --> 01:47:47,240
Speaker 1: of story. So there's this like Cold war hangover. But

1933
01:47:47,280 --> 01:47:52,520
Speaker 1: then there is also this religious and identity based affinity

1934
01:47:52,600 --> 01:47:54,840
Speaker 1: that isn't just among Jewish people. I mean, one of

1935
01:47:54,880 --> 01:47:59,720
Speaker 1: the strongest contingents, certainly on the Republican side of just

1936
01:47:59,800 --> 01:48:02,880
Speaker 1: like we're locked up with Israel, will never criticize them.

1937
01:48:02,960 --> 01:48:06,000
Speaker 1: Anything they do is inherently good and just actually is

1938
01:48:06,040 --> 01:48:08,639
Speaker 1: more like the Mike Johnson's of the world, who are

1939
01:48:09,160 --> 01:48:13,080
Speaker 1: hard right evangelical Christians who have this you know, end

1940
01:48:13,080 --> 01:48:16,040
Speaker 1: Times view and of you know, the Jews of the

1941
01:48:16,120 --> 01:48:17,960
Speaker 1: Chosen People, and so we have to back them up

1942
01:48:18,479 --> 01:48:22,080
Speaker 1: no matter what. And so as with you know, the

1943
01:48:22,120 --> 01:48:25,880
Speaker 1: conflict between Israel and Palestine having being at its core

1944
01:48:26,000 --> 01:48:30,360
Speaker 1: a political and land dispute, but really having these overlays

1945
01:48:30,400 --> 01:48:34,720
Speaker 1: of religion, which make it even more difficult to untangle. Like,

1946
01:48:34,800 --> 01:48:38,479
Speaker 1: we certainly have those same dynamics unfolding here as well.

1947
01:48:38,840 --> 01:48:44,439
Speaker 1: And it was an intentional project of multiple Israeli governments

1948
01:48:44,439 --> 01:48:48,640
Speaker 1: and officials to try to forge that bond from the

1949
01:48:48,680 --> 01:48:53,240
Speaker 1: early days of Zionism, and in America it has been

1950
01:48:53,560 --> 01:48:58,679
Speaker 1: extremely extremely successful. So that's part of what makes this

1951
01:48:59,800 --> 01:49:02,959
Speaker 1: makes it very difficult to have just like a policy

1952
01:49:03,240 --> 01:49:07,320
Speaker 1: based or even just morality based. Okay, here's war crimes

1953
01:49:07,320 --> 01:49:10,840
Speaker 1: that are being committed, here's atrocities against civilians. Why this

1954
01:49:10,920 --> 01:49:15,200
Speaker 1: gets really tangled up is based on these other cultural

1955
01:49:15,439 --> 01:49:20,439
Speaker 1: religious identity affiliations and layer on top of that a

1956
01:49:20,520 --> 01:49:24,000
Speaker 1: is like Cold War hangover mentality and a lot.

1957
01:49:23,880 --> 01:49:28,000
Speaker 3: Of things that are just you know, it's hard to

1958
01:49:28,320 --> 01:49:30,800
Speaker 3: it's much harder to convince the American public right now

1959
01:49:30,840 --> 01:49:34,120
Speaker 3: that some of these familiar Cold War arguments, and actually

1960
01:49:34,200 --> 01:49:36,280
Speaker 3: some of these familiar sort of post nine to eleven

1961
01:49:36,479 --> 01:49:43,680
Speaker 3: arguments are are worth putting back into action after nine

1962
01:49:43,720 --> 01:49:46,599
Speaker 3: to eleven without any sort of or after the exit

1963
01:49:46,680 --> 01:49:50,200
Speaker 3: from Afghanistan. I should really say, the disastrous except from Afghanistan,

1964
01:49:50,400 --> 01:49:56,360
Speaker 3: without you know, much reconsideration fundamentally within the Pentagon and

1965
01:49:56,640 --> 01:50:00,360
Speaker 3: the highest heights of American foreign policy elites of what

1966
01:50:00,400 --> 01:50:03,519
Speaker 3: American foreign policy should look like. And I think that's

1967
01:50:03,520 --> 01:50:06,320
Speaker 3: increasingly going to be a problem actually for Donald Trump

1968
01:50:06,400 --> 01:50:09,160
Speaker 3: going forward when he talks about what his plans would

1969
01:50:09,200 --> 01:50:14,360
Speaker 3: be for the Israel situation if he's elected president again

1970
01:50:14,800 --> 01:50:17,680
Speaker 3: less than a year from now, you know what he

1971
01:50:17,720 --> 01:50:21,160
Speaker 3: would what he would do that would, you know, either

1972
01:50:21,200 --> 01:50:23,439
Speaker 3: continue what he did in his administration or maybe take

1973
01:50:23,479 --> 01:50:25,680
Speaker 3: a different tack from what he did in his administration.

1974
01:50:25,760 --> 01:50:28,720
Speaker 3: Remember the Biden administration, which a lot of people on

1975
01:50:28,760 --> 01:50:32,920
Speaker 3: the right felt undercut the Abraham Accords was publicly like

1976
01:50:33,000 --> 01:50:35,840
Speaker 3: Jake Sullivan a couple of weeks before October seventh, was

1977
01:50:35,880 --> 01:50:38,559
Speaker 3: talking about how there's a peace in the Middle East

1978
01:50:38,640 --> 01:50:42,760
Speaker 3: like there hasn't been before, basically on a continuation of

1979
01:50:42,800 --> 01:50:46,400
Speaker 3: what had happened with the Abraham Accords. So there is

1980
01:50:46,600 --> 01:50:48,760
Speaker 3: just not just for the right, but kind of you know,

1981
01:50:48,840 --> 01:50:52,760
Speaker 3: the blob versus anti blob. There is a lot to

1982
01:50:52,840 --> 01:50:56,280
Speaker 3: be hashed out, you know, in the next And it's

1983
01:50:56,320 --> 01:50:58,519
Speaker 3: kind of crazy to me, Crystal that we're it's sort

1984
01:50:58,520 --> 01:51:00,559
Speaker 3: of like what we were talking about with you. But

1985
01:51:00,600 --> 01:51:03,160
Speaker 3: it's also you know, Biden seeing two state solution net

1986
01:51:03,160 --> 01:51:05,599
Speaker 3: and Yahoo, who has the support of the US government

1987
01:51:05,680 --> 01:51:08,200
Speaker 3: saying no too state solution. It's kind of crazy to me.

1988
01:51:08,240 --> 01:51:10,360
Speaker 3: We're talking about how this has to be hashed out

1989
01:51:11,200 --> 01:51:14,200
Speaker 3: because we have basically a century of some some major

1990
01:51:14,240 --> 01:51:17,960
Speaker 3: foreign policy failures in the rear view near that we

1991
01:51:17,960 --> 01:51:22,320
Speaker 3: we just have never corrected. Essentially, the public is pressuring

1992
01:51:22,760 --> 01:51:26,040
Speaker 3: for corrections. The elites have not responded to that pressure

1993
01:51:26,040 --> 01:51:27,320
Speaker 3: in significant ways.

1994
01:51:27,400 --> 01:51:30,000
Speaker 1: And the legacy of those things looms large, you know,

1995
01:51:30,120 --> 01:51:33,080
Speaker 1: And it's the legacy of our failures and our ability

1996
01:51:33,120 --> 01:51:37,479
Speaker 1: to grapple with those failures and violations of our own

1997
01:51:37,520 --> 01:51:42,800
Speaker 1: stated principles, our use you know, Putin talked about our

1998
01:51:42,840 --> 01:51:46,320
Speaker 1: invasion of Iraq, as justification for his invasion of Ukraine.

1999
01:51:47,120 --> 01:51:50,519
Speaker 1: Net Yahoo talks about not only are you know war

2000
01:51:50,560 --> 01:51:53,719
Speaker 1: on terror and ISIS, but also talks about, hey, listen,

2001
01:51:53,920 --> 01:51:55,800
Speaker 1: you know you all bomb the hell Ana Dresden, so

2002
01:51:55,840 --> 01:52:00,000
Speaker 1: why can't we do it as well? So these things

2003
01:52:00,360 --> 01:52:04,840
Speaker 1: reverberate throughout history when we fail to grapple with them,

2004
01:52:05,000 --> 01:52:09,719
Speaker 1: and when we so clearly fall, when we so clearly

2005
01:52:09,760 --> 01:52:13,400
Speaker 1: fail to live up to what we claim to stand

2006
01:52:13,400 --> 01:52:15,240
Speaker 1: for in the world, which, again, as I said earlier,

2007
01:52:15,280 --> 01:52:18,080
Speaker 1: I don't think I don't think we will ever have

2008
01:52:18,160 --> 01:52:21,639
Speaker 1: any credibility to claim that we stand for international rule

2009
01:52:21,680 --> 01:52:24,640
Speaker 1: of law, any of these humanitarian principles that we supposedly

2010
01:52:24,640 --> 01:52:27,760
Speaker 1: built the World War two post World War two order on.

2011
01:52:29,200 --> 01:52:32,559
Speaker 1: In any case, was a joy as always, Emily getting

2012
01:52:32,560 --> 01:52:34,200
Speaker 1: to chat with you today. Thank you for doing the

2013
01:52:34,240 --> 01:52:36,080
Speaker 1: show with me. Emily and Ryan are going to do

2014
01:52:36,160 --> 01:52:39,280
Speaker 1: normal counterpoints tomorrow and then actually have Ryan in with

2015
01:52:39,320 --> 01:52:42,800
Speaker 1: me on Thursday for a full breaking point. So we're

2016
01:52:42,800 --> 01:52:44,920
Speaker 1: mixing it up this week, giving Sager some very well

2017
01:52:44,920 --> 01:52:48,439
Speaker 1: deserved time off, and then he will be back next year.

2018
01:52:48,520 --> 01:52:51,040
Speaker 1: Next not next year. We're already in next year. Next

2019
01:52:51,080 --> 01:52:53,160
Speaker 1: week and next week.

2020
01:52:53,360 --> 01:52:54,879
Speaker 4: I'm sure our schedule.

2021
01:52:55,400 --> 01:52:57,200
Speaker 3: I'm sure Sago will have thoughts on this too when

2022
01:52:57,200 --> 01:53:01,400
Speaker 3: he decides to stop forcing me and Ryan to do

2023
01:53:01,520 --> 01:53:04,800
Speaker 3: his job. I kidding, no, it's it's so much fun.

2024
01:53:04,840 --> 01:53:06,400
Speaker 3: I love them, it's a blast.

2025
01:53:06,439 --> 01:53:06,599
Speaker 5: Yay.

2026
01:53:06,640 --> 01:53:09,400
Speaker 3: Ryan and I will be in the studio tomorrow and

2027
01:53:09,760 --> 01:53:12,679
Speaker 3: I'm definitely looking forward to hearing you and Sager talk

2028
01:53:12,680 --> 01:53:14,920
Speaker 3: about some of this as well. The Tucker interview has

2029
01:53:14,920 --> 01:53:18,280
Speaker 3: gotten a huge response, so there's there's a lot of

2030
01:53:18,280 --> 01:53:19,000
Speaker 3: discuss going.

2031
01:53:18,880 --> 01:53:21,240
Speaker 4: For the right and disarray one of my favorite topics.

2032
01:53:21,680 --> 01:53:23,200
Speaker 4: All right, guys in civil war.

2033
01:53:23,600 --> 01:53:26,320
Speaker 1: Yes, that's right, that's right. All right, guys, thanks so

2034
01:53:26,400 --> 01:53:28,639
Speaker 1: much for hanging out with us today. Emily and Ryan

2035
01:53:28,640 --> 01:53:30,320
Speaker 1: will see you tomorrow and I'll see you Thursday. Have

2036
01:53:30,400 --> 01:53:41,240
Speaker 1: a good one.