1 00:00:01,680 --> 00:00:03,160 Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media. 2 00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:19,880 Speaker 2: Joy ex. 3 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:24,439 Speaker 3: Six. 4 00:00:55,040 --> 00:00:57,560 Speaker 2: Welcome back to sixteenth Minute, the podcast where we talk 5 00:00:57,640 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 2: to the main characters of the Internet to see how 6 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:03,120 Speaker 2: now their moment in the Spotlight affected them and what 7 00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:06,760 Speaker 2: that says about us and the Internet. And today we 8 00:01:06,959 --> 00:01:12,440 Speaker 2: are concluding the World according to Tazon Day, a retrospective 9 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:15,319 Speaker 2: on the Chocolate Rain singer's time in the Spotlight. And 10 00:01:15,400 --> 00:01:19,880 Speaker 2: then some told by the man himself. And if you're 11 00:01:19,880 --> 00:01:22,600 Speaker 2: tuning into this episode before listening to the first two 12 00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:26,119 Speaker 2: parts of this series, grow up. Even if you do 13 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:29,120 Speaker 2: remember Tay's major viral moment back in two thousand and seven, 14 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:32,160 Speaker 2: much of the political context of his work was lost 15 00:01:32,319 --> 00:01:35,200 Speaker 2: or intentionally ignored in the shuffle at the time of 16 00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:38,600 Speaker 2: its release. And more about his upbringing growing up by 17 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:42,240 Speaker 2: racial and autistic with very little context for either that 18 00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:46,000 Speaker 2: he hasn't shared in previous interviews. And our second part 19 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:49,640 Speaker 2: goes into how Tay formed the leftist politics that spawned 20 00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:52,800 Speaker 2: Chocolate Rain in the first place. So there's a lot 21 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:56,000 Speaker 2: to catch up on, But if you're rejoining us, I 22 00:01:56,040 --> 00:01:58,760 Speaker 2: don't want to make you wait a moment longer. In 23 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:02,400 Speaker 2: the final part of our I Don't Know interview monologue, 24 00:02:02,440 --> 00:02:06,880 Speaker 2: not sure, but Tay's story of political awakening was already 25 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:10,160 Speaker 2: well into progress when he wrote Chocolate Rain as a 26 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:14,120 Speaker 2: grad student in Minnesota in his mid twenties, And today 27 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:16,799 Speaker 2: he's going to talk about how that translated into viral 28 00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:19,760 Speaker 2: fame and how it helped and hurt him come into 29 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:23,079 Speaker 2: his own as a grown man, plus some weird a 30 00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:24,799 Speaker 2: sides because it's tays on Day. 31 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:29,440 Speaker 4: Enjoy the twenty seventeen Beet interview where I first spoke 32 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:33,600 Speaker 4: about Chocolate Rain being a ballad about institutional racism. That's 33 00:02:33,639 --> 00:02:36,000 Speaker 4: a good moment to unpack. Just like the conversation with 34 00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:38,720 Speaker 4: my father, I already talked about why I don't like 35 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:42,120 Speaker 4: the way political discourse happens online. So as online political 36 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:44,639 Speaker 4: discourse became more and more tumultuous from two thousand and 37 00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:48,519 Speaker 4: seven to twenty seventeen, I became more and more averse 38 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:53,799 Speaker 4: to the idea of ever entering any sort of political dialogue, 39 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:57,280 Speaker 4: partly for economic survival reasons, because I did not ever 40 00:02:57,320 --> 00:03:00,639 Speaker 4: want to be seen as partisan, which I still don't. 41 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:02,359 Speaker 4: I mean a lot of people like to pag me 42 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:04,480 Speaker 4: as a leftist, which I'm not offended. But you know, 43 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:07,239 Speaker 4: the only thing I ever identify as is the truth. 44 00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:10,680 Speaker 4: This whole shenanigans where you are invisible unless you pledge 45 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:14,560 Speaker 4: your loyalty and virtue signal your complete devotion to an 46 00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:19,120 Speaker 4: uncompromising policy. Caricature that is either puritanically leftist or puritanically 47 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:23,120 Speaker 4: right wing is just not useful intellectually. It's like Morse code, 48 00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:26,280 Speaker 4: and we've allowed oligarchs to devolve the Internet into an 49 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:29,639 Speaker 4: intellectual telegraph. But in that moment in twenty seventeen when 50 00:03:29,760 --> 00:03:32,399 Speaker 4: BT expressed interest, I think my dad was helping pay 51 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:34,480 Speaker 4: part of my rent at the time, Like I was 52 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:37,920 Speaker 4: just not thriving, and so it felt like whatever fears 53 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:40,600 Speaker 4: I had that I would just be disowned by everybody 54 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:45,120 Speaker 4: and hated universally and never ever work again just seems like, well, okay, 55 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:46,960 Speaker 4: it seems like I'm kind of already in that state, 56 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:49,560 Speaker 4: so I might as well just be honest. And it 57 00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:51,720 Speaker 4: was fine. I mean, Bet did a great job. I 58 00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:54,680 Speaker 4: still believe that music is a great place to sing about. 59 00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:57,280 Speaker 4: What I can't say about the way I describe chocolate 60 00:03:57,360 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 4: Rain as a trojan horse that's not unique. I mean, 61 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:01,640 Speaker 4: it's a history music. I mean, how many millions of 62 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:03,800 Speaker 4: people have played Michael Jackson's they don't care about us 63 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:06,320 Speaker 4: who would not agree with his position on criminal justice. 64 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:09,160 Speaker 4: Part of my autism is that I overestimate the extent 65 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:13,160 Speaker 4: to which the world is logical, rational, self aware, and consistent, 66 00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:16,160 Speaker 4: and that has often burned me and stunted my success, 67 00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:22,680 Speaker 4: either by overestimating risks or underestimating benefits. I didn't even 68 00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:26,960 Speaker 4: syndicate Chocolate Rain to digital stories until twenty ten, and yeah, 69 00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:29,200 Speaker 4: my thinking was, hey, you know, the video says download 70 00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:31,039 Speaker 4: the free MP three. Why would I ever put it 71 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:34,000 Speaker 4: on iTunes or wherever else? And of course some viral 72 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:37,120 Speaker 4: singers like Liam Kyle Sullivan did okay economically with the 73 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:40,280 Speaker 4: better understanding of their music releases and the irrationality of 74 00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:43,360 Speaker 4: human behavior. I feel like most consequential things are irrational. 75 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:48,480 Speaker 4: I've spent a lot of brain cycles just being distressed 76 00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:52,360 Speaker 4: over the reality that a lot of things are less 77 00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:55,400 Speaker 4: based on merit and more based on tribalism and clickishness. 78 00:04:55,560 --> 00:04:59,480 Speaker 4: We're taught to embrace these very sensible ideas of meritocracy 79 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:04,039 Speaker 4: and ration individualism to explain differences in human achievement, when 80 00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:08,839 Speaker 4: just as often it's serendipity and cronyism. That animates human achievement, 81 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:12,440 Speaker 4: and that shouldn't be a zero sum conversation, like both 82 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:16,599 Speaker 4: can be contributions that we can speak to openly. But 83 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:19,560 Speaker 4: I would presume that human beings are motivated by accuracy 84 00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:24,040 Speaker 4: when most of us are motivated by self aggrandizing megalomania 85 00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:27,839 Speaker 4: and content to deploy virtue signals of charity and humility 86 00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:32,560 Speaker 4: and humanism as an avatar for our actual selfishness. And 87 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:35,280 Speaker 4: I think that's one way that my true self, Adam Bonner, 88 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:39,120 Speaker 4: failed the mythos of Taizon Day. I never played Tason 89 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:42,120 Speaker 4: Day as a superhero avatar, and I never buried my 90 00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:45,520 Speaker 4: insecurity and my uncertainties when I described the twenty seventeen 91 00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:47,960 Speaker 4: Beeight interview as me being honest about the medium of 92 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:51,320 Speaker 4: chocolal rain. And obviously it's a bit more complicated than 93 00:05:51,320 --> 00:05:54,400 Speaker 4: the same was dishonest before that, But generally speaking, I 94 00:05:54,440 --> 00:05:57,000 Speaker 4: am honest to a fault. I lived in Los Angeles 95 00:05:57,000 --> 00:05:59,640 Speaker 4: for twelve and a half years, which is famously a 96 00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:03,599 Speaker 4: play where everybody is bullshitting is the norm. Everybody is 97 00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:07,680 Speaker 4: name dropping, everybody is grasping for calling cards and maximum 98 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:10,560 Speaker 4: prominence that will justify other people giving them the time 99 00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 4: of day. And believe me, with my lived experience, I 100 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:15,080 Speaker 4: could name drop with the best of them. I just 101 00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:17,279 Speaker 4: don't do that. I would go to parties and be like, yeah, 102 00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:19,279 Speaker 4: I'm in debt. I had to ask my dad for money. 103 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:21,800 Speaker 4: I never did that thing that people do at parties. 104 00:06:21,839 --> 00:06:23,559 Speaker 4: But it's like, well, you know when I was working 105 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:25,559 Speaker 4: with James Gunn, Well you know when I was talking 106 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:28,520 Speaker 4: to Daniel Tosh last time I appeared on the Disney Channel, 107 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:30,720 Speaker 4: the last time that I was on the BBC, Like, 108 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:34,479 Speaker 4: I don't do that. It nauseates me. I'm not saying 109 00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:36,839 Speaker 4: that people who do that nauseate me. I'm just saying 110 00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:39,240 Speaker 4: I'm not that person. And you kind of have to 111 00:06:39,320 --> 00:06:42,320 Speaker 4: be that person. You have to Kim Jong ooh and 112 00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:46,279 Speaker 4: curate yourself as a cult of personality and non stop 113 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:50,800 Speaker 4: highlight reel of recognizable things. And I think anybody who 114 00:06:50,880 --> 00:06:53,520 Speaker 4: saw me at social events or conventions as Daizon day 115 00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:59,720 Speaker 4: saw me being visibly hesitant and reluctant and uncomfortable on 116 00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:03,320 Speaker 4: top of being autistic and neurologically since we overwhelmed just 117 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:06,760 Speaker 4: being out in the world period. I was never good 118 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:10,240 Speaker 4: at being this baritone Kermit the Frog Santa Claus. But 119 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:13,560 Speaker 4: that's what people want. They want Santa Claus to go 120 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:15,760 Speaker 4: ho ho ho and let them take a picture on 121 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:17,960 Speaker 4: Santa Claus's lap, especially if they're a kid. 122 00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:19,960 Speaker 1: You know. They want Tazon Day to sink. 123 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:22,800 Speaker 4: Four include rain and you move away from the bike, 124 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:24,880 Speaker 4: to breathe in and just be happy and gracious and 125 00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:27,239 Speaker 4: take a picture. Nobody wants to hear that Santa Claus 126 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:29,640 Speaker 4: is scheduled for hernia surgery and going through a divorce. 127 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:32,920 Speaker 4: I mean, he might be, but that's not really not 128 00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:36,200 Speaker 4: what the majority people are interested in hearing from him. 129 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:39,120 Speaker 4: They expect Santa Claus to excitedly talk about the North 130 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:41,560 Speaker 4: Pole and how Rudolph is doing the same way they 131 00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:44,560 Speaker 4: might expect a singer to talk about prominent acting credits 132 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:48,640 Speaker 4: and recent projects excitedly and oh my gosh, pageantry and 133 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:54,720 Speaker 4: red carpets and bread and circuses and fanciness and cosplaying 134 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 4: aristocracy by poor people. Sorry, I know what that's like. 135 00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:02,720 Speaker 4: I'm speaking autobiographically. I'm just saying I will personally never 136 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:05,960 Speaker 4: feel more comfortable with pageantry than a squirrel taking a 137 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:08,840 Speaker 4: nap on Times Square on New Year's Eve. And don't 138 00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:11,160 Speaker 4: get me wrong, I am very grateful that anybody has 139 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:14,800 Speaker 4: any interest in any version of me. I'm just saying 140 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:17,120 Speaker 4: that whatever Dazon Day is supposed to be, Adam is 141 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:21,280 Speaker 4: an autistic deer cot in headlights everywhere he goes, and 142 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:23,960 Speaker 4: Adam is a terrible liar. And also, to be fair, 143 00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:27,679 Speaker 4: I've just never been likable as a confessional content creator. 144 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:30,160 Speaker 4: Or maybe it's that I'm too likable because you really 145 00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:32,120 Speaker 4: have to be divisive and have lots of hot takes, 146 00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:35,200 Speaker 4: because obviously there're thousands and thousands of influencers who are 147 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:39,480 Speaker 4: successful just being vulnerable, being themselves, sharing their truths and 148 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:43,520 Speaker 4: their sorrows and their difficulties. I love pretending that this 149 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:45,640 Speaker 4: actually has some order and structure to it and is 150 00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:49,440 Speaker 4: not just some slow motion neurodiversion train wreck. And I 151 00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:53,360 Speaker 4: just diabolically sprinkling random callbacks to fake continuity and make 152 00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:55,880 Speaker 4: it hard to edit any part out. I'm shooting for 153 00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:58,400 Speaker 4: two episodes like William hung. To be fair, a lot 154 00:08:58,400 --> 00:09:01,440 Speaker 4: of popular nonfiction books are like that, just a vomitous 155 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:05,040 Speaker 4: thoughts spaghetti with chapters and sub sections applied as an afterthought, 156 00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:07,600 Speaker 4: like the Manuscript is an acid trip that got sent 157 00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:10,280 Speaker 4: to a post production house. I know, I just glossed 158 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 4: over calling my entertainment career not successful, and that does 159 00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:15,360 Speaker 4: not mean that I'm not grateful. It just means I 160 00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:17,880 Speaker 4: have never been rich, and there may be some years 161 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:20,840 Speaker 4: where I just tiptoed and to maybe it'd be called 162 00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:24,800 Speaker 4: middle middle class. But many more years my net worth 163 00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:28,320 Speaker 4: has technically been negative, and I've been very grateful to 164 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:30,600 Speaker 4: have a family that's able to support me when they can. 165 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:32,959 Speaker 4: As I mentioned earlier, I turned forty three this year. 166 00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:34,959 Speaker 4: In one of my biggest fears of my parents dying 167 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:37,280 Speaker 4: is that, well, I mean, I'll obviously be sad and devastated, 168 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:39,280 Speaker 4: and you know, there's that whole grief journey that one 169 00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:40,640 Speaker 4: goes through, but it so I was kind of like, 170 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:44,520 Speaker 4: I'm not sure I've ever actually for a sustained period 171 00:09:44,520 --> 00:09:48,240 Speaker 4: of like a decade, lived as a financially independent adult. 172 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:50,880 Speaker 4: Like I look at older transients who have nothing, and 173 00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:53,000 Speaker 4: I'm like, oh, I hope I don't end up there. 174 00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:54,680 Speaker 1: But I don't know. 175 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:57,559 Speaker 4: There's no guarantees that Billie Club of life can beat 176 00:09:57,640 --> 00:09:59,480 Speaker 4: you up any moment. They're like, oh there's a car wreck, help, 177 00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:02,440 Speaker 4: there's can there's you know whatever. It's all downhill after 178 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:17,440 Speaker 4: this podcast. This is a Swan song. I've said it 179 00:10:17,480 --> 00:10:19,480 Speaker 4: in many interviews. The best life for me would have 180 00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:22,400 Speaker 4: been just pick a boring job at something like the 181 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:25,840 Speaker 4: Social Security Administration, that has stability, that has routine, that 182 00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:27,839 Speaker 4: has a pension. I think that when I was young, 183 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:29,640 Speaker 4: and I was thinking, oh, you know, one day I 184 00:10:29,720 --> 00:10:32,400 Speaker 4: might just be like an actor like the people on 185 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:35,400 Speaker 4: Star Trek, or I might be a game show host. 186 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:38,920 Speaker 4: And I didn't appreciate my level of disability when I 187 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:41,520 Speaker 4: was young, partly because of what I talked about earlier, 188 00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:43,960 Speaker 4: the ethos I grew up with, Well, that triggers your 189 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:47,400 Speaker 4: sensitivity or disability, well, isolate yourself. Like I said, everybody 190 00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:50,400 Speaker 4: meant well. Hollywood in particular does not know how to 191 00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:54,280 Speaker 4: work with people who have psychiatric disabilities, at least not mine. 192 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:57,000 Speaker 4: Sometimes I forget the psychiatric disability has such a stigma 193 00:10:57,040 --> 00:10:59,200 Speaker 4: you can't just like use it because people like, oh, 194 00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:01,360 Speaker 4: it does not mean is is that person going to 195 00:11:01,400 --> 00:11:04,079 Speaker 4: stab me? As if people with no diagnosed disabilities have 196 00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:06,760 Speaker 4: some immaculate record when it comes to public safety or 197 00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:08,800 Speaker 4: for that matter, private safety, if you look at stats 198 00:11:08,840 --> 00:11:11,280 Speaker 4: and things like domestic violence. But I digress a more 199 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:14,840 Speaker 4: politic term that's used for neurodivergent and autistic people by 200 00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:16,440 Speaker 4: organizations like Culture City. 201 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:19,240 Speaker 1: Kulture is sinceory inclusion. 202 00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:21,480 Speaker 4: There have been a number of cases where I book 203 00:11:21,559 --> 00:11:24,520 Speaker 4: a gig and I get the job, and I think 204 00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:27,920 Speaker 4: the client or the director, the producer are just a 205 00:11:27,960 --> 00:11:31,880 Speaker 4: little bit surprised that I actually needed the accommodations that 206 00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:34,679 Speaker 4: I tried to communicate and request, or I'll be the 207 00:11:34,679 --> 00:11:36,800 Speaker 4: one who's surprised. I'll actually be in the moment where 208 00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:39,040 Speaker 4: there go I'm on the set and the cameras rolling 209 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:41,040 Speaker 4: and the cruise being paid, and oh shit, I can't 210 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:43,880 Speaker 4: do this. I'm completely sincere overwhelmed, and this medication cocktail 211 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:46,480 Speaker 4: is not helping. I've been miscast. That actually happened when 212 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:48,280 Speaker 4: I appeared on Jimmy Kimmel in two thousand and seven. 213 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:50,120 Speaker 4: And by the way, this is not Tea. They're all 214 00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:52,120 Speaker 4: wonderful people for all I know then and now. But 215 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:55,839 Speaker 4: I was really adamant before that segment that I wanted 216 00:11:55,880 --> 00:11:58,360 Speaker 4: to perform the first third of Chocolate Rain that I 217 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:01,199 Speaker 4: ended up performing on the show with just a microphone 218 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:04,520 Speaker 4: and no keyboard, and being the passionate segment producers that 219 00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:07,920 Speaker 4: they are. They really wanted to curate a viral video aesthetic, 220 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:10,480 Speaker 4: and they wanted me to be playing the keyboard as 221 00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:13,360 Speaker 4: I sang. They were very insistent, and at the time 222 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:16,680 Speaker 4: I knew that I probably could not perform Chocolate Rain 223 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:20,040 Speaker 4: live playing the keyboard on Jimmy Kimmel. I knew that 224 00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:22,160 Speaker 4: I would just be sensory overwhelmed. Then it wouldn't work. 225 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:24,480 Speaker 4: I didn't have a lot of terminology to explain why, 226 00:12:24,559 --> 00:12:26,800 Speaker 4: other than that I'd be too nervous, because obviously I 227 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:28,640 Speaker 4: could play it live by myself in my living room, 228 00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:31,000 Speaker 4: but I just knew that it wouldn't work in Jimmy Kimmel. 229 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:33,800 Speaker 4: The compromise is that I would have the keyboard in 230 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:35,840 Speaker 4: front of me, but I would be singing to a 231 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:38,880 Speaker 4: backing track, meaning the keyboard would not actually be playing 232 00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:41,560 Speaker 4: any notes. I'd be pretending to play the keyboard while 233 00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:45,160 Speaker 4: actually singing. They recorded one tech rehearsal of me singing 234 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:47,319 Speaker 4: Chocolate Rain the way I wanted to sing it, which 235 00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:49,520 Speaker 4: was just with the microphone and the backing track. The 236 00:12:49,559 --> 00:12:53,079 Speaker 4: moment comes, Jimmy Kimmel hypes me up, the crowd is screaming, 237 00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:56,880 Speaker 4: the curtain goes up, and I cannot feel my arms, 238 00:12:57,160 --> 00:13:01,160 Speaker 4: like literally, I my hand it's felt like jello. I 239 00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:05,840 Speaker 4: was so disoriented and since re overwhelmed. I missed the 240 00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:08,679 Speaker 4: first four lines of the song. You know chocolate Rain 241 00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:10,480 Speaker 4: some stage right now, This feel of pain, chocolate rain, 242 00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:12,560 Speaker 4: a baby born with eye before this sin, I did 243 00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:15,680 Speaker 4: not sing those words. Luckily, Jimmy Kimmel Live is not 244 00:13:15,960 --> 00:13:19,920 Speaker 4: actually live, it's Jimmy Kimmel almost live. They have an 245 00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:22,040 Speaker 4: hour or two before it goes live, so in that time, 246 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:24,080 Speaker 4: they took the audio from the tech rehearsal that they 247 00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:29,000 Speaker 4: had recorded earlier, spiced it in with my actual performance, 248 00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:32,280 Speaker 4: and they started with a very very very wide shot 249 00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:35,000 Speaker 4: like above the heads of the audience in the last row. 250 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:36,480 Speaker 1: You couldn't see me not singing. 251 00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:39,640 Speaker 4: And God blessed the Q card employee who had years 252 00:13:39,679 --> 00:13:43,400 Speaker 4: of experience writing cue cards, because in addition to not 253 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:45,640 Speaker 4: feeling my arms, I knew I would not be able 254 00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:47,760 Speaker 4: to remember the words to my song. I missed the 255 00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:50,640 Speaker 4: entire first verse and the Q card changed on time. 256 00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:53,400 Speaker 4: It's funny to think this was almost eighteen years ago. 257 00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:55,719 Speaker 4: I think there are a few shows that still use 258 00:13:55,800 --> 00:13:58,640 Speaker 4: handwritten cque cards and human operators, but it's a lost 259 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:02,959 Speaker 4: art today. I know that my psychiatric experiences that contributed 260 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:05,520 Speaker 4: to my mindor Jimmy Kimmel disaster have a name. In 261 00:14:05,559 --> 00:14:09,640 Speaker 4: addition to sensitivity to sound, light, and touch, which earlier 262 00:14:09,679 --> 00:14:14,120 Speaker 4: on if you're quizzing yourself, I described as hypercusius, misophonia, photophobia, 263 00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:18,200 Speaker 4: and hapophobia, dyspraxia, which is basically muddled signaling between your 264 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:21,840 Speaker 4: brain and muscle movement, also played a role. My dyspraxia 265 00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:24,120 Speaker 4: doesn't just make it harder to move my arms and 266 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:26,880 Speaker 4: legs and be coordinated, it makes it harder for me 267 00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:30,440 Speaker 4: to move my mouth to speak. One interesting side about 268 00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:34,840 Speaker 4: psychiatric metach is that stimulants like ADHDM phetamines will help 269 00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:40,200 Speaker 4: majorly improve my dyspraxia, but they will also worsen my sensitivity. 270 00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:44,840 Speaker 4: Is like misophonia, hapophobia, hyperacusis, et cetera, and all of 271 00:14:44,880 --> 00:14:47,800 Speaker 4: these are autistic comorbidities, meaning they just occur more in 272 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:51,680 Speaker 4: autistic people. I should bring up alexithymia too, because alexithymia 273 00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:54,920 Speaker 4: is not having words for your feelings, and in my case, 274 00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:56,680 Speaker 4: it is kind of just like not having words at all. 275 00:14:56,760 --> 00:15:02,080 Speaker 4: Because the more sensory overwhelmed I become in terms of 276 00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:06,800 Speaker 4: sound and touch and light, the less able I am 277 00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:09,840 Speaker 4: to think or speak, particularly about my feelings. It's a 278 00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:13,000 Speaker 4: good baseline to just assume I'm sensory overwhelmed everywhere in society, 279 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:15,880 Speaker 4: which means I'm kind of limited in how verbal I 280 00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:17,960 Speaker 4: am depending on how many spoons I have left. 281 00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:19,600 Speaker 1: Oh wow, we're talking about spoon theory. 282 00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:23,280 Speaker 4: Now we're just doing like this crash course and autistic psychiatry. 283 00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:23,600 Speaker 3: Now. 284 00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:26,960 Speaker 4: I started this by talking about trauma dumping, and it 285 00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:29,720 Speaker 4: goes back to the theme I touched on earlier, which 286 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:35,440 Speaker 4: is we've got to be very careful when pathologizing individuals 287 00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:40,600 Speaker 4: for misdeeds that systemic actors are most guilty of. I 288 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:44,040 Speaker 4: also raise the topic of trauma dumping because it's a 289 00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:50,640 Speaker 4: pathology that can be experienced by a person who is disabled, 290 00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:55,280 Speaker 4: including a person who is invisibly disabled. I happen to 291 00:15:55,320 --> 00:15:58,480 Speaker 4: think I'm pretty visibly autistic, but people call it an 292 00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:02,000 Speaker 4: invisible disability. Because if I am a talent, whether that 293 00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:05,600 Speaker 4: talent means I'm an employee in an office or an 294 00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:08,640 Speaker 4: on camera talent like the Jimmy Kimmel experience I described, 295 00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:13,560 Speaker 4: where is the safe context to assert my desire for 296 00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:18,000 Speaker 4: accommodations or awareness and not have that regarded as oh, 297 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:20,480 Speaker 4: he's trauma dumping. I was in Los Angeles for a 298 00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:23,880 Speaker 4: project last year, actually multiple projects. This is one that 299 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:26,400 Speaker 4: you will not see. The project involved the song where 300 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:30,960 Speaker 4: I could hypothetically play the keyboard and sing as on 301 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:33,680 Speaker 4: camera talent. Actually not that different than the situation I 302 00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:36,120 Speaker 4: described with Jimmy Kimmel, and I try to communicate that 303 00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:39,240 Speaker 4: I might not be comfortable doing that, partly because I'm 304 00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:42,440 Speaker 4: autistic and experienced autistic dyspraxia, and it was the type 305 00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:45,280 Speaker 4: of thing that if it was mission critical to get 306 00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:48,440 Speaker 4: that footage of my singing and playing the keyboard, I 307 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:53,560 Speaker 4: could have made adjustments and planned to bring my own 308 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:58,600 Speaker 4: accommodations and adhere to my own processes that would allow 309 00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:02,040 Speaker 4: that to take place. The understanding I received just that 310 00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:04,720 Speaker 4: singing and playing simultaneously it was not going to be 311 00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:05,600 Speaker 4: mission critical. 312 00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:06,680 Speaker 1: I showed up for the shoot. 313 00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:09,359 Speaker 4: It ended up being a big part of the vision, 314 00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:12,239 Speaker 4: and I simply was not prepared to deliver, and it 315 00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:14,800 Speaker 4: just ended up being awkward because it was not a 316 00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:17,520 Speaker 4: low budget shoot for a client and attached talent that 317 00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:20,720 Speaker 4: you've heard of. And by the way, everybody involved was wonderful, professional, 318 00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:24,200 Speaker 4: was a delight. It was just a regrettably awkward sequence 319 00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:26,480 Speaker 4: of events because when I'm in that type of moment 320 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:29,800 Speaker 4: and people are asking me to do something that I 321 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:33,679 Speaker 4: know in my own cognitive disability, it's not able to happen. 322 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:37,560 Speaker 4: It feels like I am someone with a physical disability 323 00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:41,320 Speaker 4: being asked to, for example, shoot basketball hoops. But I 324 00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:43,679 Speaker 4: don't have crutches to point too, I don't have a 325 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:47,040 Speaker 4: prosthetic leg. I don't have a wheelchair. All I have, 326 00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:51,600 Speaker 4: with dozens of talented crew members on set and xxx 327 00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:55,200 Speaker 4: xx x amount of money being spent, are words coming 328 00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:58,280 Speaker 4: out of my mouth describing limitations that are invisible to 329 00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:01,479 Speaker 4: everybody else. And I know that as polite and different 330 00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:03,840 Speaker 4: and professional as everybody else is not of them. 331 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:08,040 Speaker 2: Nderstand We'll be back with the grand conclusion to the world. 332 00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:28,160 Speaker 2: According to Tason Day, welcome back to sixteenth minute. Imagine 333 00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:32,280 Speaker 2: you're me and after nine months you've gotten your interview 334 00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:35,439 Speaker 2: with Taizon. Day you send questions back late because you're 335 00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:38,440 Speaker 2: struggling with depression. He checks in a month after getting 336 00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:40,920 Speaker 2: the questions to say he's getting close to being done 337 00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:44,080 Speaker 2: recording the answers to the questions, but he still has 338 00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:48,119 Speaker 2: a little more to say. You say, sure, that's fine, 339 00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:56,879 Speaker 2: and then the day arrives. Tayson Day replies with a 340 00:18:56,920 --> 00:19:00,760 Speaker 2: single audio file. But when you open that eye audio file, 341 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:04,080 Speaker 2: it is two and a half hours long. Within the 342 00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:08,760 Speaker 2: audio file. Our thoughts insightful, thoughts deep. He maybe answers 343 00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:12,520 Speaker 2: at most three of your questions, and it's the most 344 00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:16,480 Speaker 2: amazing look into someone's life anyone has shared with me 345 00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:21,600 Speaker 2: on this show. So, without further ado, here are taison 346 00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:23,440 Speaker 2: Days parting thoughts. 347 00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:26,920 Speaker 4: So on the grand scale of things, me feeling particularly 348 00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:29,800 Speaker 4: autistic during a shoot that happened to not be released 349 00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:33,359 Speaker 4: potentially for many reasons unrelated to myself, it's not that 350 00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:36,359 Speaker 4: big of a deal. Although as talent you also become 351 00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:40,240 Speaker 4: aware very quickly that Los Angeles is indeed a small town. 352 00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:43,360 Speaker 4: You are never more than one, or rarely two degrees 353 00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:46,400 Speaker 4: of friendship separation from anybody else you work with professionally, 354 00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:50,199 Speaker 4: so there's a justified fear in any vocation, including on camera, 355 00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:53,160 Speaker 4: since so much of Los Angeles just happens by word 356 00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:56,919 Speaker 4: of mouth, that the grapevine gossip about you will start 357 00:19:56,960 --> 00:20:00,439 Speaker 4: to indicate that you are difficult to work with. And 358 00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:03,800 Speaker 4: here I'll invoke a little bit of sociological marginalization theory. 359 00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:07,000 Speaker 4: It has always felt to me like the grapevine reviews 360 00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:11,240 Speaker 4: of a person tend to be harsher the less they are, 361 00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:14,639 Speaker 4: like the aesthetics of dominant power, and that includes people 362 00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:17,640 Speaker 4: with invisible disabilities. My life is very much a jack 363 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:21,280 Speaker 4: of all trades, master of non mess of partially attempted 364 00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:25,720 Speaker 4: things that didn't really value stack or get executed in 365 00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:29,840 Speaker 4: a foundational way, including being Tazon day as an entertainer. 366 00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:32,640 Speaker 4: That's a topic we could unpack. Firstly, I have never 367 00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:35,399 Speaker 4: been a super frequent uploader. I feel like nothing you 368 00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:38,000 Speaker 4: do on social media matters if it's not uploaded to 369 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:40,400 Speaker 4: or three times per week. Now, that feeling that one 370 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:43,040 Speaker 4: has to run on this hamster wheel of recency bias 371 00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:47,040 Speaker 4: when creating content is of course contrived, but unfortunately it 372 00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:49,719 Speaker 4: is also normative. Like if you own a plumbing company, 373 00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:53,040 Speaker 4: took out what company's Instagram and nothing has been posted 374 00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:56,119 Speaker 4: for two months, it reflects poorly on you, or people 375 00:20:56,119 --> 00:20:58,480 Speaker 4: assume it is an un serious endeavor and you are 376 00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:01,040 Speaker 4: an un serious person, Like it would almost be better 377 00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:03,639 Speaker 4: to just not have an Instagram at that point, And 378 00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:06,000 Speaker 4: I can list one hundred different ways that rigging a 379 00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:12,400 Speaker 4: content economy wherever green content infrequently uploaded, content never has 380 00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:16,639 Speaker 4: organic region is not able to thrive, is grotesquely ablest 381 00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:20,320 Speaker 4: and unfair towards people who struggled to speak, people who 382 00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:23,760 Speaker 4: struggled to move. I have never been prolific, and my 383 00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:26,119 Speaker 4: success peaked on an Internet where you did not have 384 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:29,680 Speaker 4: to be like on my Internet. Not just say my Internet, 385 00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:31,240 Speaker 4: I'm saying like an old man. 386 00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:35,760 Speaker 5: On my Internet, every piece of content got a fair shot. 387 00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:39,280 Speaker 1: Upload once a day, upload once a year. It was 388 00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:40,880 Speaker 1: the land of opportunity. 389 00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:44,119 Speaker 4: Although it's not even accurate to describe what we experience 390 00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:48,080 Speaker 4: in twenty twenty five as the Internet. Every social network 391 00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:51,879 Speaker 4: that you might seek to build an audience on algorithmically 392 00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:55,600 Speaker 4: demotes external links. You can't link to outside content. That's 393 00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:59,760 Speaker 4: definitionally an intro net. Like the early dial up services 394 00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:04,160 Speaker 4: in the eighties and nineties, Prodigy, CompuServe, America Online, they 395 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:08,359 Speaker 4: were closed networks. Those are intronnets, not the Internet. We're 396 00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:12,800 Speaker 4: being hoodwinked into using these glorified Bloomberg terminals for social 397 00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:16,359 Speaker 4: Internet content, but instead of charging a high monthly fee 398 00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:20,240 Speaker 4: for a proprietary operating system. They have us exhausting our bodies, 399 00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:24,639 Speaker 4: our time, and our lives, chasing the tail of manufactured recency. 400 00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:29,720 Speaker 4: We are toiling on oligarchic algorithmic feed plantations. And because 401 00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:32,600 Speaker 4: the ten percent of the population who make the best 402 00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:36,920 Speaker 4: algorithmic kunti kentes, yes, I went there, get ninety percent 403 00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:40,920 Speaker 4: of the engagement on these platforms as they destroy their bodies, 404 00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:45,760 Speaker 4: destroy their mental health, destroy their personal relationships, desperately tossing 405 00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:49,120 Speaker 4: pearls hoping to get pennies out of these sick algorithms. 406 00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:53,320 Speaker 4: We're living in a culture that glorifies that grind as noble. 407 00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:56,720 Speaker 4: It's like the social platforms are drug cartels who have 408 00:22:56,760 --> 00:23:00,880 Speaker 4: a single nautical conciones. And I love today's influences. Many 409 00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:04,920 Speaker 4: are amazingly talented and very hard working. But we cannot 410 00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:07,879 Speaker 4: get to a point as a civilization where that is 411 00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:11,920 Speaker 4: the anticipated redemption arc for capitalism sucking. 412 00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:13,639 Speaker 1: And that's what I fear. 413 00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:16,760 Speaker 4: It becomes this thing where young people go, well, I 414 00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:19,560 Speaker 4: can't afford a house, I can't afford college, I can't 415 00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:22,320 Speaker 4: afford to pay off these predatory healthcare bills where I 416 00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:24,359 Speaker 4: look at the invoice and it's four hundred and fifty 417 00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:26,800 Speaker 4: dollars for a bandage. But it's okay because I'm gonna 418 00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:28,639 Speaker 4: be on the influencer grind and I can blow up 419 00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:29,120 Speaker 4: any day. 420 00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:30,320 Speaker 1: No, it's not okay. 421 00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:33,119 Speaker 4: You better start listing to some Boots Riley starts singing, 422 00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:35,840 Speaker 4: we got the Guillotine. Sometimes, I swear that mode just 423 00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:37,480 Speaker 4: kind of takes over. I don't even know where it 424 00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:39,879 Speaker 4: comes from. It only happens when I'm by myself, in 425 00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:43,240 Speaker 4: complete isolation and hit record. Maybe that's what Taizonda is. 426 00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:45,440 Speaker 4: An atom is just this noise that. But yeah, I 427 00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:47,359 Speaker 4: should release more music. I don't even know what to 428 00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:50,800 Speaker 4: do with music releasing now, which is kind of frustrating 429 00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:53,480 Speaker 4: because I am making and recording the best music I 430 00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:55,720 Speaker 4: have ever made. It's just hoping I can find some 431 00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:58,640 Speaker 4: way to get out before I die. Every independent artist 432 00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:02,359 Speaker 4: has to go through digital music distributors, and that ecosystem 433 00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:05,679 Speaker 4: of middlemen. Many of the legal terms and independent artists 434 00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:08,400 Speaker 4: has to sign are not fair. All of these distributors 435 00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:10,760 Speaker 4: that I know of, are reserving AI rights to any 436 00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:14,120 Speaker 4: new music they syndicate. They want unlimited rights to license 437 00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:18,040 Speaker 4: artists tracks to train third party AI models or to 438 00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:21,160 Speaker 4: train their own AI models. This is of course completely 439 00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:24,840 Speaker 4: unrelated to getting your artist tracks onto Spotify, iTunes, etc. 440 00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:28,720 Speaker 4: At least unrelated to fans playing those tracks back, But 441 00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:32,919 Speaker 4: most of these intermediaries do not offer these services a 442 00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:33,680 Speaker 4: la carte. 443 00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:35,680 Speaker 1: It's a take it or leave it quid pro quo. 444 00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:39,240 Speaker 4: Distributors also face some pressure from platforms like Spotify to 445 00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:42,760 Speaker 4: secure derivative and AI rights because Spotify wants a future 446 00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:45,879 Speaker 4: where there can be unlimited remixing by DJs and mashups 447 00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:48,520 Speaker 4: that don't pay the original artist. So that is my 448 00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:52,720 Speaker 4: independent music ecosystem grievance Number one, AI and derivative rights 449 00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:55,720 Speaker 4: with terrible economics that are impossible for independent artists to 450 00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:58,760 Speaker 4: opt out of. My grievance number two is bad deals 451 00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:02,679 Speaker 4: with syndicating music tracks to social platforms. Because syndicating to 452 00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:09,639 Speaker 4: social platforms like TikTok, Instagram, YouTube shorts, Facebook stories, it's 453 00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:15,000 Speaker 4: different than syndicating to retail storefronts like Spotify iTunes. It 454 00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:17,400 Speaker 4: really does not need to be, but the distributors saw 455 00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:19,760 Speaker 4: an opportunity a few years back to call it something 456 00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:22,560 Speaker 4: different and then take a percentage of the ad revenue. 457 00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:25,080 Speaker 4: There is a small amount of content management involved with 458 00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:28,560 Speaker 4: the shorts platforms because music tracks are being integrated with video, 459 00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:32,040 Speaker 4: but the percentage is being paid to distributors are awfully 460 00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:35,440 Speaker 4: high relative to my understanding of that actual cost. Grievance 461 00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:38,600 Speaker 4: number three amounts to YouTube in twenty twenty five being 462 00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:43,240 Speaker 4: a product design hot mess for independent musicians. Short history lesson. 463 00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:45,280 Speaker 4: I believe there was a time in two thousand and 464 00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:49,960 Speaker 4: nine when major music label music videos were approximately eighty 465 00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:54,680 Speaker 4: percent of YouTube's monetized advertising traffic. That's one reason major 466 00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:57,919 Speaker 4: music labels had leverage to force YouTube to create Vevo, 467 00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:00,560 Speaker 4: which is a separate reskin for their videos where they 468 00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:03,760 Speaker 4: get a better ad revenue split. Viacoms unresolved billion dollar 469 00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:07,440 Speaker 4: copyright lossit against YouTube also affected sentiments of the time, 470 00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:10,480 Speaker 4: but that's a separate story. Now, since the viral video era, 471 00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:14,840 Speaker 4: which coincided with major music label artists like Justin Bieber 472 00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:18,879 Speaker 4: and Lady Gaga getting two three billion views regularly on 473 00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:22,320 Speaker 4: their Vivo music videos, we've seen the rising domination of 474 00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:27,160 Speaker 4: mobile viewing and algorithmic feeds that prioritize watch time, session time, 475 00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:30,399 Speaker 4: click through rates, etc. That's one reason you see content 476 00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:33,399 Speaker 4: creators who make longer gameplay videos like market Plier and 477 00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:36,480 Speaker 4: Dashy blow up as soon as algorithmic feeds come out. 478 00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:40,360 Speaker 4: Music videos just don't compete well with other content at 479 00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:44,240 Speaker 4: keeping people on YouTube As a content genre. Music just 480 00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:48,040 Speaker 4: tends to not be as targetable for advertisers who want 481 00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:53,880 Speaker 4: to bid on keywords as technology, family, vlogs, basically any 482 00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:57,000 Speaker 4: other content category. The fact that music videos were among 483 00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:00,399 Speaker 4: YouTube's highest earning content categories by sheer View Volli in 484 00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:04,040 Speaker 4: two thousand and nine, with thousands of content creators making 485 00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:08,600 Speaker 4: entire businesses out of parroting popular music videos, and after 486 00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:11,240 Speaker 4: twenty twelve they just became one of the lowest earning 487 00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:15,760 Speaker 4: content categories is important context for YouTube's products design afterwards. 488 00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:18,800 Speaker 4: The problem YouTube is trying to solve is that music 489 00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:24,520 Speaker 4: is tremendously disadvantaged at creating the user behavior and advertised 490 00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:27,800 Speaker 4: behavior that is most profitable for its business. That means 491 00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:30,879 Speaker 4: my grievance one and grievance two make the artists give 492 00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:33,800 Speaker 4: up their AI rights, their derivative work rights, and submits 493 00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:38,440 Speaker 4: to unfavorable social platform distribution terms. Most distributors are asking 494 00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:41,000 Speaker 4: for that before they'll anoint your own YouTube channel as 495 00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:44,040 Speaker 4: your official artist channel, which causes the channel subscribers to 496 00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:46,240 Speaker 4: merge if you have one that was autogenerated, which I 497 00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:49,640 Speaker 4: do right now. My main YouTube channel is eighteen years old. 498 00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:53,560 Speaker 4: It does not need a third party music distributor operating 499 00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:56,320 Speaker 4: as a multi channel network taking a portion of the 500 00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:59,960 Speaker 4: ad revenue on music video assets. As an independent muse 501 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:02,600 Speaker 4: a artist on YouTube, I am left to ask why 502 00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:07,280 Speaker 4: am I being forced by these mandatory third party music 503 00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:13,679 Speaker 4: distributors to opt into terrible, unfavorable music track distribution terms 504 00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:18,199 Speaker 4: with every major music playback platform on the planet in 505 00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:21,920 Speaker 4: order to activate my control of an essential YouTube product 506 00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:25,240 Speaker 4: feature for my own music just because YouTube is an 507 00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:29,080 Speaker 4: absent parent and music as a category is its runt 508 00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:33,960 Speaker 4: child in terms of alphabet shareholder value. Although to be fair, 509 00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:38,680 Speaker 4: it is in Google's longer term interest to tacitly support 510 00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:44,400 Speaker 4: a music ecosystem where AI derivatives and mashups are free 511 00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:49,440 Speaker 4: to be created and proliferate with zero restrictions, because that 512 00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:54,560 Speaker 4: expands targetable metadata that is the lifeblood of Google's advertising business. 513 00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:57,720 Speaker 4: It goes back to what I said earlier. Capitalism forces 514 00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:03,800 Speaker 4: fixed assets, fixed me, fixed context, fixed relation, fixed behavior. 515 00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:06,800 Speaker 4: When do we wake up as a species and say 516 00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:09,400 Speaker 4: we are not broken. We do not need these oligarchs 517 00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:12,480 Speaker 4: fixing us. We need fixed behavior in terms of do 518 00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:15,840 Speaker 4: not drive into trees. We do not need fixed behavior 519 00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:18,400 Speaker 4: in terms of I control what you see. You can 520 00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:20,800 Speaker 4: tell I'm getting prophetic when the mother goose rhyms come out, 521 00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:23,320 Speaker 4: the doctor seuss. The parts of this where my speaking 522 00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:27,600 Speaker 4: gets faster and less guttural are when my ADHD medication 523 00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:30,480 Speaker 4: is hitting and I'm just not fighting it. Doing this 524 00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:33,040 Speaker 4: actually had me go down from sixty milligrams to forty 525 00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:37,680 Speaker 4: milligrams of events, because on sixty I was like, I 526 00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:39,840 Speaker 4: can record on a lower dose and be a bit 527 00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:42,920 Speaker 4: more in control of that energizer bunny aspect. I talked 528 00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:46,200 Speaker 4: earlier about how amphetamines make it neurologically easier for me 529 00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:48,600 Speaker 4: to speak, But it's also interesting that a lot of 530 00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:52,440 Speaker 4: the stylistic affect with which Chocolate Rain was sung, where 531 00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:55,560 Speaker 4: I'm dropping my lyrics very deliberately and moving my lips 532 00:29:55,560 --> 00:30:00,280 Speaker 4: in big formations, that is actually a muscular effort compensation 533 00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:05,680 Speaker 4: for the reduced neurological control that dyspraxia creates. There are 534 00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:08,200 Speaker 4: parts of me, the question, am I better off knowing that? 535 00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:11,720 Speaker 4: Because Tasonta was just doing what came naturally in the moment. 536 00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:15,040 Speaker 4: It was Taison Tape blowing up as an entertainer and 537 00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:18,800 Speaker 4: being forced into contact with society, me being put into 538 00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:22,160 Speaker 4: constant realization that I am not like others, but must 539 00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:27,040 Speaker 4: somehow remake myself in that likeness, and eventually realizing that 540 00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:30,080 Speaker 4: was a ridiculous aspiration for me to have. It was 541 00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:32,840 Speaker 4: not because of childhood trauma that I was different. It 542 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:36,840 Speaker 4: was not because of structural oppression that I was deterministically different, 543 00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:40,520 Speaker 4: as Lady Gaga says, I was just born that way. T. S. 544 00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:43,480 Speaker 4: Eliot's cliche aphorism is that the end of all you're 545 00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:45,920 Speaker 4: exploring will be to come back to where you started 546 00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:48,880 Speaker 4: and know yourself for the first time. The future kind 547 00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:52,160 Speaker 4: of terrifies me. I'm terrified of getting old, which past 548 00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:54,320 Speaker 4: a certain age, you kind of start to resign yourself 549 00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:56,920 Speaker 4: to the idea that it's likely to happen alone. I'm 550 00:30:56,920 --> 00:31:01,840 Speaker 4: this weird cast role of transcendent capability fused with profound disability. 551 00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:05,160 Speaker 4: I am both borderline savant and my information aggregation and 552 00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:09,160 Speaker 4: retention speed while measuring is learning disabled in some kind 553 00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:13,000 Speaker 4: of battery tests because my brain sucks at translating the 554 00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:17,600 Speaker 4: parallelism with which it experiences truth into the dogmatic serial 555 00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:22,360 Speaker 4: declarative that majoritarian neurology change humankind to its likeness with 556 00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:25,680 Speaker 4: and as that last sentence shows, it's a struggle that 557 00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:29,840 Speaker 4: often comes out in hyphenated adjectives, hyphenated nouns, and subordinate clauses. 558 00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:31,800 Speaker 4: Some people in the academy would just tell me that 559 00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:34,840 Speaker 4: John Quincy Adams like pros meant I was stupid that 560 00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:37,720 Speaker 4: the job of a scholar was to clarify that. You 561 00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:40,880 Speaker 4: don't really understand something if you're not clarifying it, if 562 00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:43,360 Speaker 4: you can't explain it to a five year old. I'm like, well, okay, 563 00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:46,280 Speaker 4: fine explaining everything to a five year old. Bad people 564 00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:48,960 Speaker 4: took the ice cream. We won our ice cream back. 565 00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:52,360 Speaker 4: So yeah, as I've said throughout this, I feel quite 566 00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:55,080 Speaker 4: uncertain about my future. I mean, anybody could have the 567 00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:57,880 Speaker 4: wrong place, wrong time, get hit by a bus, get 568 00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:01,800 Speaker 4: hit by a recreational homicide, it hit by falling SpaceX debris. 569 00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:03,880 Speaker 4: But I think I had hoped at this point in 570 00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:07,480 Speaker 4: my life that outside of random misfortunes, I would have 571 00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:10,400 Speaker 4: reason to be confident in a safe and provided future. 572 00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:13,320 Speaker 4: Some people have that in the post blog, saying I 573 00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:15,560 Speaker 4: feel so empty. For me, It's like, Nope, not me. 574 00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:17,760 Speaker 4: That's the life I should have picked. But I'm in 575 00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:20,280 Speaker 4: the life that I'm in now. I suspect that a 576 00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:22,920 Speaker 4: lot of people with similar neurology to me have not 577 00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:27,520 Speaker 4: been as lucky. And if not for myself, me making 578 00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:30,360 Speaker 4: it over any hurdle, no matter how many hurdles I 579 00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:34,840 Speaker 4: have ahead, comes with an obligation to keep running. The 580 00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:39,479 Speaker 4: viral video era in which Chocolate Rain achieved prominence was 581 00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:45,000 Speaker 4: for autistic neurology like mine. What Reconstruction after the American 582 00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:47,840 Speaker 4: Civil War was for black rights. 583 00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:49,200 Speaker 1: It was this. 584 00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:54,760 Speaker 4: Exceptional eye of the storm before ferocious backlash. People who 585 00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:57,760 Speaker 4: had to live under Jim Crow for seventy years looked 586 00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:02,320 Speaker 4: back at Reconstruction and mar and said, yeah, Mississippi had 587 00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:05,720 Speaker 4: a black senator. Yeah, it actually happened. People look back 588 00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:08,680 Speaker 4: at the viral video era now and go, yeah, you 589 00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:10,960 Speaker 4: could be weird, you could be niche, and you would 590 00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:15,520 Speaker 4: be syndicated all over the world by platforms that did 591 00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:19,960 Speaker 4: not spy on user behavior. The viral video era where 592 00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:23,640 Speaker 4: platforms did not act like gated communities and forbid you 593 00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:27,360 Speaker 4: to link to other platforms. The viral video era where 594 00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:31,760 Speaker 4: platforms trusted you that if you followed, or friended, or subscribed, 595 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:35,680 Speaker 4: you actually wanted to see the content. The viral video 596 00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:38,560 Speaker 4: era where you did not have to consent to your data, 597 00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:42,960 Speaker 4: your soul, your life, your voice being used unpaid for 598 00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:47,960 Speaker 4: somebody else's artificial intelligence business. The viral video era where 599 00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:51,440 Speaker 4: everybody who googled something saw the same results. Because truth 600 00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:54,280 Speaker 4: is not a business decision. It is the life or 601 00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:57,760 Speaker 4: death of our species. And you know what today's search 602 00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:01,360 Speaker 4: and social media that disrespects you, that somehow manages to 603 00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:04,440 Speaker 4: target you with an advertisement about something you were talking 604 00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:06,920 Speaker 4: to a friend about two hours ago, and you were 605 00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:10,919 Speaker 4: wondering how the heck did it get that information. We 606 00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:14,520 Speaker 4: do not need to live like that for seventy years. 607 00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:18,240 Speaker 4: We do not need to live with private interfaces owned 608 00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:23,520 Speaker 4: by faceless oligarchs invading our homes and dictating what we 609 00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:26,800 Speaker 4: see when we see it, and then lying to us 610 00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:29,600 Speaker 4: that we are the ones choosing when they know the 611 00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:33,840 Speaker 4: only options they are surfacing for us are profit profit profit. 612 00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:38,560 Speaker 4: When we deserve power. Power power. We can pick a 613 00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:42,200 Speaker 4: different history to be crashing through our veins. We can 614 00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:45,160 Speaker 4: remake how we got to where we are, and we 615 00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:49,560 Speaker 4: can keep our privacy. We can keep our data, we 616 00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:53,040 Speaker 4: can keep our mental health, and we do not need 617 00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:56,719 Speaker 4: machines to be the means for meeting on our screens 618 00:34:56,920 --> 00:34:59,720 Speaker 4: where nothing seems to hear them me if I say 619 00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:03,120 Speaker 4: no to make me free. There, guys, mother goose again, 620 00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:06,600 Speaker 4: I should end us. But it's been interesting for sure. 621 00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:09,759 Speaker 2: Thank you so much to the wonderful Taison Day for 622 00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:14,239 Speaker 2: his time, his thoughtfulness and just being himself. You can 623 00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:17,000 Speaker 2: follow him at the links in the description. It's hard 624 00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:19,840 Speaker 2: for me to say anything here that tay Or Adam 625 00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:24,000 Speaker 2: hasn't said himself with far more eloquence. But I really 626 00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:28,239 Speaker 2: loved hearing the experiences of someone who went viral in 627 00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:32,839 Speaker 2: the earlier days of the Internet. Sure, because it's nostalgic 628 00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:35,719 Speaker 2: to some degree, and it's really frustrating to hear that 629 00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:39,959 Speaker 2: people as talented as tay Or Liam Kyle Sullivan really 630 00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:43,520 Speaker 2: struggled to be taken seriously in the mainstream in their day. 631 00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:48,440 Speaker 2: But it's comforting in some ways to see well adjusted 632 00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:52,239 Speaker 2: people on the other side of a very weird experience 633 00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:55,040 Speaker 2: to be fair, at least in part because they were 634 00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:58,040 Speaker 2: adults when they went viral, and both after dealing with 635 00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:00,960 Speaker 2: quite a bit of mental health struggles and grappling with 636 00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:04,680 Speaker 2: themselves along the way, just like anyone would have to do, 637 00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:08,959 Speaker 2: but they had to do it while this unprecedented thing 638 00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:12,480 Speaker 2: was happening. And I do think stories like this are 639 00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:15,960 Speaker 2: not just interesting but important because whether we like to 640 00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:19,160 Speaker 2: think about the depressing march of time or not, with 641 00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:22,440 Speaker 2: any luck, the main characters of today are going to 642 00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:25,680 Speaker 2: have a similar road ahead of them, and depending on 643 00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:29,160 Speaker 2: how you feel about it, either with some luck or 644 00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:32,200 Speaker 2: a curse, you might have to deal with it too. 645 00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:36,440 Speaker 2: And this brings me to a little announcement wow bonus 646 00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:38,960 Speaker 2: for people who listen to the end of the episode. 647 00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:42,160 Speaker 2: The announcement is in the next few weeks, we are 648 00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:44,480 Speaker 2: going to be switching up the format of sixteenth minute 649 00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:48,759 Speaker 2: away from our character of the Week format and take 650 00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:52,640 Speaker 2: more time between series so I can take a closer 651 00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:55,920 Speaker 2: look at the missing history of the Internet and what 652 00:36:56,000 --> 00:37:00,120 Speaker 2: we lose by not tracking or considering it more carefully. 653 00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:03,399 Speaker 2: Because at this point, whether you like it or use 654 00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:07,080 Speaker 2: the Internet, frequently or not, it does have a big 655 00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:11,160 Speaker 2: influence over your daily life and has a significant guiding 656 00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:15,040 Speaker 2: hand at who is heard and who isn't. And I 657 00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:17,960 Speaker 2: want to look at how this has developed more closely, 658 00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:21,800 Speaker 2: because stories like tay Is almost serve as a canary 659 00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:24,759 Speaker 2: in a coal mine for where we were headed and 660 00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:30,680 Speaker 2: letting the grand audience of the Internet completely reshape someone's life. 661 00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:33,720 Speaker 2: What I can be grateful for here is that, unlike 662 00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:37,399 Speaker 2: so many people who are dragged into Internet fame or 663 00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:42,360 Speaker 2: any kind of fame unwittingly or rooted in mockery, Tazon 664 00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:48,120 Speaker 2: Day invented himself to be an entertainer and occasionally a commodity. 665 00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:53,000 Speaker 2: And Adam Bonner seems comfortable after many years of navigating 666 00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:57,720 Speaker 2: public prominence, in separating this public and this private self, 667 00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:00,600 Speaker 2: and it shouldn't have had to be hard won. But 668 00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:04,000 Speaker 2: there's a lot to learn from that experience. And so 669 00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:15,160 Speaker 2: with that, Tayson Day, your sixteenth minute ends now. But 670 00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:18,400 Speaker 2: hold your little ponies, dear listener, there are still a 671 00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:21,760 Speaker 2: few more characters that I have to share with you. 672 00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:25,239 Speaker 2: Next week we check in with the main character of 673 00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:30,120 Speaker 2: twenty twenty four, Hailey Welch aka Hawk tool Girl, who 674 00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:33,759 Speaker 2: has I don't know if you've heard, but been excused 675 00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:36,680 Speaker 2: for a couple of crimes and is getting back into 676 00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:40,320 Speaker 2: the podcast game very twenty twenty five of her and 677 00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:44,280 Speaker 2: that's next week. But as acend off to our Tay series, 678 00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:49,120 Speaker 2: here is the man himself, honoring my people, the Irish 679 00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:53,000 Speaker 2: with Oh Danny Boy, We'll see you next week. 680 00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:57,600 Speaker 1: Oh Danny Boy. The pipes. 681 00:38:57,640 --> 00:39:05,640 Speaker 5: The pipes are lea from Glen to Glen and down 682 00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:13,680 Speaker 5: the mountainside. The songs gone and. 683 00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:17,880 Speaker 1: Do the roses, Fallly. 684 00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:24,399 Speaker 6: Eats, You Eats, You must go, and I must buy, 685 00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:31,040 Speaker 6: but come ye back. 686 00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:33,000 Speaker 3: Queen Salons in the name. 687 00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:35,759 Speaker 1: Pollween. 688 00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:46,640 Speaker 3: Thele is host and White with Snow. 689 00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:50,480 Speaker 2: Sixteenth minute is a production of Whole Zone Media and Iheartwodia. 690 00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:54,360 Speaker 2: It is written, hosted, and produced by me Jamie Astis. 691 00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:58,320 Speaker 2: Our executive producers are Sophie Lickderman and Robert Evans. Hemsy 692 00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:01,960 Speaker 2: Ian Johnson is our super using producer and our editor. 693 00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:06,320 Speaker 2: Our theme song is by Sad thirteen. Voice acting is 694 00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:09,399 Speaker 2: from Grant Crater and Pet. Shout outs to our dog 695 00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:12,479 Speaker 2: producer Anderson, my Kat's Flee and Casper and my pet 696 00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:16,000 Speaker 2: Rockbird who will outlive us all Bye.