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Speaker 1: Pushkin. John Oates is, of course, one half of one

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Speaker 1: of the best selling pop duos in history, Hollan Oates.

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Speaker 1: But before forming Hallan Notes and defining the late seventies

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Speaker 1: and eighties with their signature sound, John was steeped in

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Speaker 1: folk and delta blues, a sound he returns to on

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Speaker 1: his new self titled solo album. On today's episode, I

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Speaker 1: talked with John about the making of that new album,

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Speaker 1: including the songwriting skills he's honed over years of playing

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Speaker 1: with top Nashville musicians. He also shares a story of

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Speaker 1: how he wound up playing Mississippi John Hurt's acoustic guitar

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Speaker 1: on the first two Hall and Oates records, and the

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Speaker 1: moment backstage at the Apollo Theater in Harlem when he realized,

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Speaker 1: after performing with the Temptations that Hall of Oates had

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Speaker 1: truly come full circle. This is broken record, real musicians,

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Speaker 1: real conversation. Here's my conversation with John Oates. You can

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Speaker 1: see the full video of this interview at YouTube dot

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Speaker 1: com slash Broken Record Podcast. John Oates, thanks.

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Speaker 2: For being here, man, well, thank you, thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: Real pleasure to have you here. Yeah, and you're you're

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Speaker 1: you have a bit of a cold. I do you

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Speaker 1: want a new guitar? But that's no excuse. No, you're

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Speaker 1: a professional.

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna bring it.

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Speaker 1: So you're are you going to do?

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Speaker 3: Uh?

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Speaker 1: Sonny Terry and Brownie McGee.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Well I'm really uh. I'm really thrilled that you

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Speaker 2: actually know, first of all, know that song, and second

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Speaker 2: of all that you requested it. Yeah, it's one of

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Speaker 2: my favorites. Can I tell you a little story about

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Speaker 2: it really quick?

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Speaker 1: Please? Please.

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Speaker 2: It was during the pandemic and I was out in

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Speaker 2: Colorado spending some time out there, and I ran into

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Speaker 2: a neighbor of mine that I'm known for over twenty

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Speaker 2: years out in Woody Creek and we started talking, you know,

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Speaker 2: because nothing was going on, you know, and nobody was recording.

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Speaker 2: And he's a great lyricist. He's written songs for John

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Speaker 2: and he even wrote a lyric for Frank Sinatra.

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Speaker 1: What.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he's his name is Joe Henry and fantastic guy.

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Speaker 2: And he said, man, he goes, We've known each other

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Speaker 2: for twenty years, never wrote a song together. And I said,

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Speaker 2: I said, man, I got time on my hands, let's

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Speaker 2: do it. And so he came up to our little

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Speaker 2: cabin and we sat down, and you know, songwriters always,

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Speaker 2: you know, it's kind of hard to get started sometimes

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Speaker 2: you don't know where you're going to start, right, And

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Speaker 2: we start talking about the Blues because I was a fan,

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Speaker 2: and everything started talking about Sonny Terry and Brownie McGee,

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Speaker 2: the great, the legendary blues duo. And he said, you know,

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Speaker 2: he said, you know, the story about what happened to

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Speaker 2: them as they got, you know, on in their career.

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Speaker 2: They really started to dislike each other. They had bad issues. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and so but as time went on, one of them

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Speaker 2: lost his sight eyesight, and the other one lost this

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Speaker 2: ability to walk, and they literally needed each other to

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Speaker 2: get on stage, and it kind of brought them together

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Speaker 2: in a way.

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Speaker 1: And I thought, wow, what a story.

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Speaker 2: I said, you know, not only is that an amazing story,

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Speaker 2: but it's almost like a metaphor for or kindness and

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Speaker 2: lending a helping hand, you know what I mean. And uh,

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Speaker 2: I just thought, wow, what a great idea. And so

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Speaker 2: we started out to do it. The song kind of

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Speaker 2: about them, but it morphed into something greater than that,

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Speaker 2: you know, and they became the vehicle for it.

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Speaker 1: I have so many questions based on what you just said.

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Speaker 1: But if you played the song first time, I would

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Speaker 1: like to talk some more.

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Speaker 2: Sure you know, I get to try. Like I said,

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Speaker 2: I haven't played this in a little while, but I'll

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Speaker 2: give it a try, right, I'll you'd be there for me.

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Speaker 4: Well, I'll just pass it through.

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Speaker 2: Trying to be the best that can be.

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Speaker 4: I said, it has that's the funny that he's never

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Speaker 4: strong and just that nothing gets the sided by drawing

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Speaker 4: lines in the side. Talk about kid and you talk

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Speaker 4: about sticks and stones, the philosopher's and fools. It was

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Speaker 4: little dish with loaded barmable rubber to Roger to the gaping.

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Speaker 4: But when they're d it's selling its in different kitties.

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Speaker 4: He'll keep on drinking them.

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Speaker 5: About what a dicky Walter.

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Speaker 6: If you'll see it for me, sit selling it telling

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Speaker 6: key kind of suffect.

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Speaker 4: It's amazing leg stop saying that.

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Speaker 1: Can't had done not.

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Speaker 4: So I say him, yes it can. When you're stopping

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Speaker 4: moving through the darkness, we chat home. Poon up the

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Speaker 4: house that will bring us world begin and that's worth

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Speaker 4: striving for us. Wine this believing until the truth is gone.

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Speaker 6: He ain't learn loud again over his author carrying on

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Speaker 6: the long dark night, but we'll wake up to the

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Speaker 6: bright up dark.

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Speaker 4: Just keep on, he's saying.

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Speaker 7: Blue.

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Speaker 4: Keys, and keep on dreaming bad.

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Speaker 8: That could be.

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Speaker 9: Waf you'll see for me, said Sunny, brothers are getting.

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Speaker 4: I'll talk about to Reaven, talk about.

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Speaker 2: Sticks and stocks, philosopher's influence.

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Speaker 3: It was in Guys were loaded on Did a minute

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Speaker 3: Brother to brother get to the third birthday?

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Speaker 10: This singing the book was in the key said Sunny try.

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Speaker 2: Amazing, thank you mans. I haven't played that in a

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Speaker 2: little while, so.

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Speaker 1: It was What I love about that is it's it's

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Speaker 1: the pandemics about when I discovered that song, because you

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Speaker 1: know it was it was around that time when everyone

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Speaker 1: was just clicking onto different live streams and had some

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Speaker 1: time on your hands, had some time and I don't

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Speaker 1: know what last stream was, but I remember watching you

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Speaker 1: play that. At some point I say, that's a really

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Speaker 1: cool video live in the studio, so so cool. And

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Speaker 1: it's when I realized you were like a I never

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Speaker 1: you know, with Holland Oates, with you and Daryl Hall.

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Speaker 1: You think of course soul music R and B. So

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Speaker 1: I know it's there, but never really pegged you as

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Speaker 1: either of you as like blues guys or or folk guys.

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Speaker 1: But you know, and that's a that's like a it's

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Speaker 1: a rootsy song but harmonically interesting, which not to say,

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Speaker 1: you know, the blues isn't really always I know, it's

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Speaker 1: so it's like that's a really cool blend of what

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Speaker 1: people know you for in your career and and then

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Speaker 1: this interesting part of you that I don't think a

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Speaker 1: lot of people know about. You know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, you know, as a kid, that was my

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Speaker 2: sweet spot. Folk music, rural blues, Delta blues, roots, American

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Speaker 2: roots music. And that's kind of when I met Daryl Hall.

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Speaker 2: That's kind of what I brought to the table. I

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Speaker 2: was more of an acoustic guitar player. And then you know, Darryl,

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Speaker 2: you know, had a different set of influences and we

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Speaker 2: kind of combined things together. He learned from me, and

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Speaker 2: I learned from him, and you know, that became the collaboration,

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Speaker 2: became our sound and eventually, you know, was.

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Speaker 1: He was he into? Like were you both into what

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Speaker 1: each other had? Like in terms of was he into

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Speaker 1: listening to blues? And were you no?

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Speaker 2: No, no, no, he was into street corner doo wop singing,

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Speaker 2: and also he was classically trained. Yeah, he sang in

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Speaker 2: the church and that kind of thing. And he was

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Speaker 2: a piano player, and so I was, you know, I

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Speaker 2: was a prettyly acoustic guitar and I had all the

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Speaker 2: rootsy stuff happening, and so he picked up a mandolin

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Speaker 2: because he wanted to learn some of that stuff. So

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Speaker 2: we started playing bluegrass and things like that, and then

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Speaker 2: I learned some very more sophisticated chord voicings and stuff

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Speaker 2: from him because of his great piano playing.

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Speaker 1: Wow. I went on a journey after like discovering that song,

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Speaker 1: and I went back and I found an old recording

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Speaker 1: you guys did of Deep River Blues, which is Doc

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Speaker 1: Watson stuff.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 1: Oh, man, is it true you learned that from Doc Watson?

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Speaker 2: Well, I learned it from his record initially, but I

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Speaker 2: actually met him and his son, Merle, and you know,

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Speaker 2: through I had a teacher, a guitar teacher in Philadelphia

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Speaker 2: who became started as a teacher, who became a mentor

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Speaker 2: friend and actually played on the first two Hole of

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Speaker 2: Notes albums as well. And he he worked at a

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Speaker 2: coffee house during the sixties when the Folk Revival was happening.

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Speaker 2: So when a lot of these are these original artists,

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Speaker 2: everyone from people like Doc and people like Mississippi John

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Speaker 2: Hurt and Sunny Terry and Brownie McGee, all these folks

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Speaker 2: were being rediscovered and brought up to the northern cities,

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Speaker 2: you know, during the folk Revival. He got to meet them,

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Speaker 2: and eventually, you know, they would stay at his house

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Speaker 2: because of course a lot of especially the blues guys,

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Speaker 2: come coming up from the Mississippi Delta. They had no money,

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Speaker 2: they didn't know even had to live in a city

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Speaker 2: or go to a hotel much less. Right, So I

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Speaker 2: would go over to take lessons and you know, Mississippi

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Speaker 2: John Hurt would be there sitting on his couch. And

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Speaker 2: so I learned from the originators of all this stuff,

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Speaker 2: and that's why I can do all this stuff. Of

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Speaker 2: people didn't realize that you met Mississippi John Hurt. Oh yeah, what, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I have his guitar. What I have the guitar that

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Speaker 2: he played at Newport in nineteen sixty three when he

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Speaker 2: was discovered Get out of Yeah, how did you get that?

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Speaker 1: Oh?

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Speaker 2: Through a circuitous way, my guitar teacher Jerry Rix. After well,

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Speaker 2: when he took John Hurt around, he took him to

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Speaker 2: Newport Folk Festival, Philly Folk Festival, and he helped him out.

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Speaker 2: So when John Hurt died, the guitar that he was

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Speaker 2: given because when John Hurt was invited to Newport for

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Speaker 2: the first time, he did not even have a guitar.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 2: So they took him to New York and took him

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Speaker 2: to the Greenwich Village to a guitar shop and they

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Speaker 2: said pick something, and he picked this Guild guitar, Guild

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Speaker 2: F thirty and that was the guitar he played initially

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Speaker 2: at Newport. And then of course the Guild company gave

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Speaker 2: him a different guitar later on. So, but when John

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Speaker 2: Hurt died, that guitar was given to my teacher, Jerry Rix.

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Speaker 2: And Jerry went to Denver and he was working out

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Speaker 2: there before he kind of atriated to Europe and never

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Speaker 2: came back. And at the time he sold it to

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Speaker 2: a collector out there who kept it in his basement

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Speaker 2: for thirty five forty years and the guy died and

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Speaker 2: his daughter had read where I well, actually, I know

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Speaker 2: I'm going back a little bit backwards, back in seventy

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Speaker 2: two when Darryl and I were first signed to Atlantic Records,

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Speaker 2: going up to New York to make the first album,

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Speaker 2: and I wanted Jerry to play with me because we

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Speaker 2: played together so well, and he said, you want me

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Speaker 2: to bring to John Hurt guitar so you can play it.

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Speaker 2: So on the first two Hollow Notes albums, I'm playing

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Speaker 2: Misissippi John Hurt's acoustic guitar.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we do you know what songs?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Had I known you better than on the Abandon Luncheonette,

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Speaker 2: all the songs on the whole Oats album, anything that

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Speaker 2: I'm playing acoustic guitar on, I'm playing that guitar. And

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Speaker 2: so then so it was in a collection and the

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Speaker 2: guy's daughter, I guess, just wanted to sell whatever he

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Speaker 2: had had read about the fact that I used that guitar,

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Speaker 2: reached out and then I bought it.

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Speaker 1: That's incredible. It's amazing that it landed to like it

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Speaker 1: was in your home stage. Yes, what's crazy, so convenient,

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Speaker 1: that's insane. I mean, you guys are like both of you,

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Speaker 1: you guys, you know by the way, I'm sure you do.

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Speaker 1: You hate at this point that you know, I keep

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Speaker 1: saying you but you know, you guys are tied by career.

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Speaker 2: Even we're tied by a lot of things.

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Speaker 1: The terms aren't so friendly these days.

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Speaker 2: But you know, hey, listen, people grow up, they grow up,

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Speaker 2: they grow apart. You know, Darryl and I we made

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Speaker 2: something very special. We made something that that you know,

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Speaker 2: I'm very proud of the music we made, the experiences

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Speaker 2: we had. It's a miracle that we stayed together for

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Speaker 2: fifty years. I mean, come on, most people, that's unheard of. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and you know, I have great, great memory, and I'm

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Speaker 2: really really proud and honored to have been part of

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Speaker 2: this incredible collaboration, made some music. I think we'll stand

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Speaker 2: the test of time. But by the same tone, can

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Speaker 2: you know I can't stay. It's like going to a

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Speaker 2: great museum. You know, you're all excited about going to

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Speaker 2: the museum. You're walking there also on your feet, start

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Speaker 2: getting tired and said, damn, how many how many of these?

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Speaker 2: How many these masterpieces gonna look at? I gotta get

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Speaker 2: out of here.

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Speaker 1: It's an incredible annalogy. It's weird, but there might be

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Speaker 1: a song in that one. Yeah, but you know, you guys,

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Speaker 1: and I'll just say, you know you guys are.

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Speaker 7: Like, you know, your career, you guys are like a millions,

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Speaker 7: you know, like there's this connection you have to these

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Speaker 7: blues grates, which I never did not know that that's

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Speaker 7: that's it's real.

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Speaker 1: And then you know, if you think about there was

250
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Speaker 1: like this very specific New York City scene that you

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Speaker 1: guys got to experience in this very specific LA scene

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Speaker 1: that you guys got to experience much less, you know,

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Speaker 1: going back to Philly. And so you guys just have

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Speaker 1: had these really unique like almost like uh you know,

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Speaker 1: like musical uh what do you call that? Like not Senghali's,

256
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Speaker 1: but you know, like that's at that far. You know,

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Speaker 1: you just happened to turn up at all these kind

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Speaker 1: of interesting we unctures.

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Speaker 2: We had a lot of, you know, our our individual

260
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Speaker 2: musical influences are when we were kids. Daryl lived about

261
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Speaker 2: twenty miles from where I grew up in Pennsylvania outside

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Speaker 2: of Philadelphia, in small towns, but we listened to the

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Speaker 2: same radio stations and so when we met, even though

264
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Speaker 2: we didn't know each other, we had this common musical

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Speaker 2: lexicon that we could draw from. We knew these same songs,

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Speaker 2: the same artists, the same we could draw from those

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Speaker 2: things as a common ground, common musical ground, even though

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Speaker 2: he was very different than me and I was very

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Speaker 2: different from him. And that's what we used to become

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Speaker 2: what we became. And then during that period of time,

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Speaker 2: you know, when you're part of a partnership, you you

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Speaker 2: subjugate a certain part of your not only your personality,

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Speaker 2: but your musical personality for the good of the whole,

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Speaker 2: you know, for the good of the the team, so

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Speaker 2: to speak. And so I set the folky rootsie stuff aside,

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Speaker 2: really and it was always there, you know, I'd sit

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Speaker 2: in the dressing room and I'd be playing this kind

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Speaker 2: of stuff all the time. But you know, it was

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Speaker 2: never featured in the in the music.

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Speaker 1: That we made. But you to your point, on those

281
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Speaker 1: first two albums, you can get it to a decrease.

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Speaker 2: We were trying to find ourselves. We didn't know who

283
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Speaker 2: we were we could be. And it really wasn't until

284
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Speaker 2: the Silver Album, which we recorded here in Los Angeles,

285
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Speaker 2: that a sound kind of began a coalesce. And then

286
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Speaker 2: of course it developed during the seventies and then in

287
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Speaker 2: the eighties it hit its stride.

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Speaker 1: Right right after this break. We'll be back with John Oates.

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Speaker 1: I always wondered, and you know it's mast Is first.

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Speaker 1: There so many things to ask With the Silver album,

291
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Speaker 1: you guys were, like, to your point, in search of

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Speaker 1: a sound not successful but not quite yet, kind of

293
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Speaker 1: over the edge. If Sarah Smile hadn't randomly become a single,

294
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Speaker 1: I mean, and it wasn't to say randomly randomly, It

295
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Speaker 1: wasn't even released as a single. Just radio picked it up.

296
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Speaker 1: That's right. People kept calling radio plays it some more.

297
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Speaker 1: I said, okay, we better put it out at the record.

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Speaker 2: Company finally said, hey, we've better release because we had

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Speaker 2: released two or three singles prior to that.

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Speaker 1: They did okay, good songs, but they didn't hit yeah,

301
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Speaker 1: or didn't hit quite, didn't hit like that. So would

302
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Speaker 1: you guys have kept searching at that point, I mean

303
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Speaker 1: not that you guys. Would you have continued to try

304
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Speaker 1: to find a sound that resonated with audiences.

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Speaker 2: I think we would have. I think we would have. Well,

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Speaker 2: let's put it this way. We we had made what

307
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Speaker 2: at that point when Sarah Smile hit. That was the

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Speaker 2: fourth album so three on Atlantic Records, three and a half.

309
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Speaker 2: Because they put out a kind of the greatest non

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Speaker 2: hits record called No Goodbyes. But the fact that Atlantic

311
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Speaker 2: stuck with us with no real success commercial success was real.

312
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Speaker 2: But what that was a that was a hallmark of

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Speaker 2: the time. You know, if a record company signed you

314
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Speaker 2: in those days, they they signed you because they thought

315
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Speaker 2: you could have a career, they thought you could do

316
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Speaker 2: you know, it wasn't just predicated on instant commercial success

317
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Speaker 2: like it is today. So very fortunate to have grown

318
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Speaker 2: up in that era, right. And then when Sarah Smile

319
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Speaker 2: hit that, we had already switched to RCAA Records, and

320
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Speaker 2: so then we began to really now, okay, now we

321
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Speaker 2: got something going here. And then of course we had

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Speaker 2: Rich Girl, and then they re released it She's Gone

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Speaker 2: for the third time, and that finally became a hit too.

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Speaker 1: So we had that run in the mid seventies, right,

325
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Speaker 1: and to that point of fostering talent over the long term,

326
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Speaker 1: She's Gone finally becomes a hit, and it's also seems

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Speaker 1: to be one of the most enduring of the entire

328
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Speaker 1: catalog some way, What what why? What preceded that switch

329
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Speaker 1: from Atlantic to RCA Because it always to the guys

330
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Speaker 1: were perfect for us, business, just purely business.

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Speaker 2: We had so we made you got to look at

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Speaker 2: it this way. We made the album called hol Looas,

333
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Speaker 2: which is very folky, very singer songwriter. It was it

334
00:19:07,476 --> 00:19:10,156
Speaker 2: was really just that some songs Daryl had, some songs

335
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Speaker 2: that I had, and we were just like, Okay, we've

336
00:19:12,556 --> 00:19:14,716
Speaker 2: got a record country, We've got to do something. We'll

337
00:19:14,716 --> 00:19:17,316
Speaker 2: play these because that's what we got. It really wasn't

338
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Speaker 2: until the abandoned Luncheon Net that we made an album

339
00:19:19,796 --> 00:19:23,516
Speaker 2: that really was coherent, you know, in terms of the vibe.

340
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Speaker 2: And so then we did those two albums, neither of

341
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Speaker 2: which were commercially successful. So we went and just did

342
00:19:30,396 --> 00:19:33,116
Speaker 2: a left turn and did a progressive rock album with

343
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Speaker 2: Todd Runggerns.

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Speaker 1: Both war babies.

345
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Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, we had no mandate to keep

346
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Speaker 2: doing the same things. Well, if people don't like what

347
00:19:41,356 --> 00:19:43,996
Speaker 2: we're doing, was just do something else. And then you know,

348
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Speaker 2: then at that point, I think Atlantic had signed the

349
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Speaker 2: average White band and they kind of had that thing

350
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Speaker 2: that they wanted from us. And I love the I

351
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Speaker 2: love those guys, but it just seemed like we had

352
00:19:56,876 --> 00:19:59,516
Speaker 2: broken the mold there and I love Atlantic Records, and

353
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Speaker 2: I was really proud to be part of that and

354
00:20:01,516 --> 00:20:04,356
Speaker 2: be with a Reef Mardin, the great producer. But then

355
00:20:04,396 --> 00:20:06,076
Speaker 2: we you know, we got a better deal at RCA,

356
00:20:06,316 --> 00:20:08,396
Speaker 2: so we jumped ship and there you go.

357
00:20:08,836 --> 00:20:11,756
Speaker 1: Did you you hear from anyone at Atlantic when the

358
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Speaker 1: Silver album ended up doing what it did.

359
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Speaker 2: No, they just immediately released She's Gone Again.

360
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Speaker 1: So you know that there was a bit of them

361
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Speaker 1: that was, hey, you know what, I'm glad they did. Yeah, yeah,

362
00:20:22,556 --> 00:20:24,036
Speaker 1: I read at that time too, when you guys were

363
00:20:24,476 --> 00:20:27,276
Speaker 1: looking you leaving Atlantic, You're going to go somewhere else.

364
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Speaker 1: You guys met with Clive Davis.

365
00:20:32,476 --> 00:20:33,276
Speaker 2: That wasn't until later.

366
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Speaker 1: It wasn't untill later. Okay, you did meet with Clive

367
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Speaker 1: the time.

368
00:20:35,716 --> 00:20:38,476
Speaker 2: Timeline's a little off, Sorry, Okay, we met. We met

369
00:20:38,516 --> 00:20:42,796
Speaker 2: with him later on. Actually in the early early eighties,

370
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Speaker 2: when we started to have success on our commercial level,

371
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Speaker 2: it was it was really you know, that's I don't

372
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Speaker 2: even like to talk about it because it was a

373
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Speaker 2: total business thing.

374
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Speaker 3: You know.

375
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Speaker 2: It was our manager. It was our manager looking for

376
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Speaker 2: more money.

377
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Speaker 1: Basically, Okay, all right, let's get these.

378
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Speaker 2: Guys pre signed to another label, even before they can

379
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Speaker 2: leave the label they're own.

380
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Speaker 1: Got it, got it. I was just thinking about it

381
00:21:02,436 --> 00:21:05,036
Speaker 1: because you know an addition, I mean, obviously Atlantic feels

382
00:21:05,076 --> 00:21:06,396
Speaker 1: like it would have been a really good fit for

383
00:21:06,476 --> 00:21:08,316
Speaker 1: your sound, not that our say wasn't. Obviously you guys

384
00:21:08,356 --> 00:21:10,436
Speaker 1: did very well, But then I was also thinking like,

385
00:21:10,436 --> 00:21:12,476
Speaker 1: oh yeah, Clive would be would have been an interesting

386
00:21:12,476 --> 00:21:14,396
Speaker 1: place for you guys to land in away, because I'm sure.

387
00:21:14,396 --> 00:21:16,996
Speaker 2: It didn't work very well with Clive. Clive wanted to

388
00:21:17,236 --> 00:21:20,476
Speaker 2: micromanage the song selection and things like that, but that

389
00:21:20,916 --> 00:21:22,956
Speaker 2: that's what he does and he's very good at it,

390
00:21:22,996 --> 00:21:25,556
Speaker 2: and his track record speaks for itself, of course, but

391
00:21:25,676 --> 00:21:27,516
Speaker 2: with us, it wasn't. It wasn't a good fit.

392
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Speaker 1: Did you ever get that from RCA, that feel of

393
00:21:30,596 --> 00:21:31,076
Speaker 1: they want.

394
00:21:30,956 --> 00:21:33,436
Speaker 2: To We always were able to keep the record labels

395
00:21:33,436 --> 00:21:36,356
Speaker 2: at arm's length. On the creative side. We made the

396
00:21:36,396 --> 00:21:38,356
Speaker 2: albums we wanted to make in the way we wanted

397
00:21:38,396 --> 00:21:41,036
Speaker 2: to make them. We made our album covers, and then

398
00:21:41,076 --> 00:21:43,996
Speaker 2: we just said here, here's here it is, sell it,

399
00:21:44,116 --> 00:21:45,436
Speaker 2: go sell it, figure it out.

400
00:21:45,836 --> 00:21:49,396
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, so you can't do that anymore? Well, no,

401
00:21:49,716 --> 00:21:50,156
Speaker 1: not quite.

402
00:21:50,516 --> 00:21:53,276
Speaker 2: Record labels have their their a little their grubby little

403
00:21:53,316 --> 00:21:53,996
Speaker 2: paws and everything.

404
00:21:54,196 --> 00:21:56,476
Speaker 1: Not not quite. So I want to go back to

405
00:21:56,516 --> 00:21:58,996
Speaker 1: Sunny Terry and BROWNI McGee though, just talk about their

406
00:21:59,036 --> 00:22:02,196
Speaker 1: cue it is I want to go that song. What

407
00:22:02,436 --> 00:22:06,156
Speaker 1: was it like writing that song with Joe Henry, because

408
00:22:06,436 --> 00:22:09,396
Speaker 1: that's a it's not quite how you got You didn't

409
00:22:09,396 --> 00:22:11,916
Speaker 1: really co write you and Darryl so much, right, it

410
00:22:12,036 --> 00:22:13,196
Speaker 1: was more you did.

411
00:22:13,316 --> 00:22:15,836
Speaker 2: Certain certain songs we did and certain songs we didn't.

412
00:22:16,516 --> 00:22:19,156
Speaker 2: It was interesting with Joe Henry. We didn't really know

413
00:22:19,276 --> 00:22:23,436
Speaker 2: each other. He brought up this incredible idea, which immediately

414
00:22:23,596 --> 00:22:26,716
Speaker 2: I realized was not the idea. I realized that the

415
00:22:26,796 --> 00:22:30,356
Speaker 2: idea was a bigger idea then. I think his vision

416
00:22:30,516 --> 00:22:33,956
Speaker 2: was to write a song about them, and I My

417
00:22:34,116 --> 00:22:35,796
Speaker 2: vision was to write a song with them as the

418
00:22:35,916 --> 00:22:39,436
Speaker 2: vehicle for something else. And I don't think Joe actually

419
00:22:39,516 --> 00:22:43,516
Speaker 2: knew what we were writing about, because I knew exactly

420
00:22:43,596 --> 00:22:46,596
Speaker 2: what I wanted to write, and he was there. He's

421
00:22:46,636 --> 00:22:51,156
Speaker 2: a great lyricist, and he kept, you know, kept honing

422
00:22:51,316 --> 00:22:54,676
Speaker 2: and refining, and we'd come up with lines, and you know,

423
00:22:54,876 --> 00:22:58,476
Speaker 2: he was a really really detailed, great detailed guy because

424
00:22:58,476 --> 00:23:00,876
Speaker 2: he's not necessarily a musician. He didn't play an instrument.

425
00:23:01,916 --> 00:23:03,396
Speaker 2: But I knew the whole time that there was a

426
00:23:03,476 --> 00:23:06,956
Speaker 2: bigger idea behind them, and that Sunny Terry and Brownie

427
00:23:06,996 --> 00:23:08,716
Speaker 2: McGee were just the vehicle to get there.

428
00:23:09,636 --> 00:23:12,156
Speaker 1: You're sitting there with the guitar, and so he doesn't play,

429
00:23:12,236 --> 00:23:12,796
Speaker 1: so he's.

430
00:23:12,676 --> 00:23:15,396
Speaker 2: Just he's writing lyrics on a yellow legal pad.

431
00:23:15,236 --> 00:23:17,556
Speaker 1: And you're going through some changes and coming up with changes.

432
00:23:17,636 --> 00:23:20,636
Speaker 2: We're talking about stuff, and then we went away from

433
00:23:20,796 --> 00:23:22,996
Speaker 2: from each other for a while and I started to

434
00:23:23,156 --> 00:23:26,396
Speaker 2: really hone in on the story. And then I come

435
00:23:26,436 --> 00:23:27,796
Speaker 2: back and I play some stuff, and I say what

436
00:23:27,876 --> 00:23:31,836
Speaker 2: about this? You know, and and the lines like you know,

437
00:23:32,516 --> 00:23:36,036
Speaker 2: the stuff like uh, you know, talk about getting even

438
00:23:36,116 --> 00:23:37,636
Speaker 2: talk about sticks and stones.

439
00:23:38,116 --> 00:23:39,636
Speaker 4: Philosophers are full.

440
00:23:39,396 --> 00:23:44,276
Speaker 2: Of rolling dash with loaded bones rather too brother, too

441
00:23:44,476 --> 00:23:46,836
Speaker 2: gay when they're there.

442
00:23:47,796 --> 00:23:48,996
Speaker 1: Gee, I wonder what that's about?

443
00:23:50,396 --> 00:23:50,556
Speaker 2: Is it?

444
00:23:51,276 --> 00:23:52,036
Speaker 1: It's pretty obvious?

445
00:23:52,196 --> 00:23:58,596
Speaker 2: Okay, So I was blending my experience using this great

446
00:23:58,716 --> 00:24:02,076
Speaker 2: idea that Joe came up with to get somewhere else.

447
00:24:02,796 --> 00:24:05,876
Speaker 1: Did Joe not realize it's like, who I'm talking to

448
00:24:05,876 --> 00:24:08,036
Speaker 1: a guy who he realized that after the fact, Okay,

449
00:24:08,276 --> 00:24:10,836
Speaker 1: famous dua. Well he's smart, yeah, yeah, you know.

450
00:24:11,396 --> 00:24:13,876
Speaker 2: But it was just a thing that I It was

451
00:24:14,036 --> 00:24:18,036
Speaker 2: I realized there was this way of saying something without

452
00:24:18,476 --> 00:24:19,196
Speaker 2: being overt.

453
00:24:19,396 --> 00:24:22,876
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, and and to your point also, it's again

454
00:24:22,916 --> 00:24:27,156
Speaker 1: this time day and time where there's a feeling widely

455
00:24:27,676 --> 00:24:30,996
Speaker 1: of scarcity and everyone wanting to just you know, fight

456
00:24:31,116 --> 00:24:33,676
Speaker 1: for themselves and not it's like this this idea that no,

457
00:24:33,796 --> 00:24:37,076
Speaker 1: we're actually interdependent, you know, as as people. And so

458
00:24:37,276 --> 00:24:40,116
Speaker 1: there's also this larger, kind of beautiful message as well

459
00:24:40,116 --> 00:24:42,796
Speaker 1: as this kind of more personal thing. That's so it

460
00:24:42,956 --> 00:24:46,356
Speaker 1: just makes it this really and the changes and very

461
00:24:46,436 --> 00:24:47,956
Speaker 1: cool song so.

462
00:24:48,276 --> 00:24:50,636
Speaker 2: Folks, with some sophisticated, cored changes thrown in there.

463
00:24:50,716 --> 00:24:53,476
Speaker 1: That's right. Yeah, there was a period of time, I mean,

464
00:24:53,516 --> 00:24:55,996
Speaker 1: your first solo album. You have a new one coming

465
00:24:56,036 --> 00:25:00,676
Speaker 1: out oats in just a couple of days, you know,

466
00:25:01,156 --> 00:25:03,116
Speaker 1: as we're taping this, it'll be out by the time

467
00:25:03,196 --> 00:25:06,036
Speaker 1: this this we we this airs and I want to

468
00:25:06,036 --> 00:25:09,556
Speaker 1: talk about that. But you know, your soul, you didn't

469
00:25:09,556 --> 00:25:12,676
Speaker 1: really make a solo album until two thousand and one.

470
00:25:13,476 --> 00:25:13,796
Speaker 1: That's right.

471
00:25:14,116 --> 00:25:15,556
Speaker 2: Started in two thousand, came out in one.

472
00:25:16,876 --> 00:25:19,756
Speaker 1: Was what happened in an intervening time between well, you know.

473
00:25:21,156 --> 00:25:23,316
Speaker 2: At the end of the eighties with Daryl and I

474
00:25:23,876 --> 00:25:28,156
Speaker 2: were burned out after we finished the Apollo Theater show

475
00:25:28,196 --> 00:25:31,996
Speaker 2: with Eddie Kendrick and David Ruffin from Temptations got about that. Yeah,

476
00:25:32,396 --> 00:25:34,716
Speaker 2: that was a high point. I think it was a

477
00:25:34,876 --> 00:25:38,916
Speaker 2: full circle moment for both Darryl and myself. We bonded

478
00:25:38,996 --> 00:25:42,756
Speaker 2: early on as teenagers over our love of The Temptations.

479
00:25:43,316 --> 00:25:46,116
Speaker 2: Darryl actually was in a group called the temp Tones

480
00:25:46,196 --> 00:25:49,676
Speaker 2: that was kind of sponsored by, not really sponsored by,

481
00:25:49,756 --> 00:25:52,356
Speaker 2: but he was friends with those guys the original group.

482
00:25:52,756 --> 00:25:56,876
Speaker 1: And wait, really the Temptones was loosely connected junior varsity

483
00:25:57,036 --> 00:25:59,916
Speaker 1: version of yeah, Yeah, yeah what and Sure.

484
00:26:00,036 --> 00:26:01,796
Speaker 2: In fact, one of the first things Darryl and I

485
00:26:01,916 --> 00:26:04,116
Speaker 2: did together we went to the Apollo Theater in New York,

486
00:26:04,396 --> 00:26:06,996
Speaker 2: went backstage, hung out with The Temptations in the dressing room,

487
00:26:07,436 --> 00:26:10,316
Speaker 2: and then sat in the front row watched their show,

488
00:26:10,356 --> 00:26:12,196
Speaker 2: which I've of course seen seen them before in the

489
00:26:12,316 --> 00:26:16,996
Speaker 2: original group. Then flash forward to the eighty five eighty six,

490
00:26:17,756 --> 00:26:22,956
Speaker 2: we're opening reopening the Apollo after the renovation, and we

491
00:26:23,036 --> 00:26:25,916
Speaker 2: did a special show for the NAACP and we wanted

492
00:26:25,956 --> 00:26:28,676
Speaker 2: to do something special, so we found Eddie. Eddie was

493
00:26:28,716 --> 00:26:32,756
Speaker 2: singing holiday inns down in Alabama. David was in Detroit somewhere.

494
00:26:32,756 --> 00:26:35,276
Speaker 2: I don't know what he was doing. Nothing and we

495
00:26:35,356 --> 00:26:39,036
Speaker 2: asked them to come and reprise the Temptations metally, and

496
00:26:39,156 --> 00:26:42,356
Speaker 2: we did that on the on the Apollo Show. After

497
00:26:42,476 --> 00:26:44,956
Speaker 2: we did that, I remember after that show, Darryl and I,

498
00:26:45,996 --> 00:26:47,796
Speaker 2: you know, it was a big hubbub backstays, a lot

499
00:26:47,876 --> 00:26:50,836
Speaker 2: of press and a lot of friends, and I remember

500
00:26:50,956 --> 00:26:53,556
Speaker 2: us sitting quietly in a corner and it was almost

501
00:26:53,636 --> 00:26:56,516
Speaker 2: like we realized that it was done, that we had

502
00:26:57,236 --> 00:27:01,636
Speaker 2: we had completed the circle, you know, and there wasn't

503
00:27:01,716 --> 00:27:03,956
Speaker 2: much to be said, but I know we both knew it,

504
00:27:05,196 --> 00:27:10,556
Speaker 2: and I was you know, you have to remember, we

505
00:27:10,716 --> 00:27:13,956
Speaker 2: made our first album in seventy two, so now go

506
00:27:14,036 --> 00:27:18,196
Speaker 2: to eighty six. We made an album every year from

507
00:27:18,276 --> 00:27:21,396
Speaker 2: seventy two to eighty six, and sometimes more than one

508
00:27:21,836 --> 00:27:24,396
Speaker 2: because the greatest hits albums and live albums and things

509
00:27:24,436 --> 00:27:27,636
Speaker 2: like that. And we toured in between every album and

510
00:27:27,756 --> 00:27:31,796
Speaker 2: never ever stopped. So you're talking about, you know what,

511
00:27:32,316 --> 00:27:36,276
Speaker 2: fifteen years straight of touring without ever stopping, not once,

512
00:27:37,436 --> 00:27:40,316
Speaker 2: And it was like, I knew there was something missing

513
00:27:40,356 --> 00:27:42,156
Speaker 2: in my life person, and then I'm just talking to

514
00:27:42,196 --> 00:27:45,876
Speaker 2: my own point of view, and I just wanted to stop.

515
00:27:46,076 --> 00:27:48,396
Speaker 2: And so that's what we did in the end, of

516
00:27:48,436 --> 00:27:51,476
Speaker 2: the eighties, which was commercially, from a career point of view,

517
00:27:51,596 --> 00:27:53,716
Speaker 2: probably the worst thing you could possibly have done. When

518
00:27:53,796 --> 00:27:55,836
Speaker 2: we were riding on top of the world, guys are.

519
00:27:55,836 --> 00:27:56,396
Speaker 1: Like killing it.

520
00:27:56,516 --> 00:27:58,396
Speaker 2: I mean, we were on top of the pop world, right,

521
00:27:59,116 --> 00:28:03,316
Speaker 2: but we basically just stopped. And it was then I

522
00:28:03,436 --> 00:28:07,956
Speaker 2: began to rethink certain things like personal life and stuff

523
00:28:07,996 --> 00:28:11,076
Speaker 2: like that. So we ended up making another record, made

524
00:28:11,116 --> 00:28:13,716
Speaker 2: a record called Ooh Yeah in like eighty eight. I

525
00:28:13,796 --> 00:28:16,236
Speaker 2: want to say, it wasn't much. It had like a

526
00:28:16,436 --> 00:28:19,916
Speaker 2: semi hit single, my heart wasn't in it. And then

527
00:28:19,916 --> 00:28:22,116
Speaker 2: we made an album called Change of Season. And that

528
00:28:22,276 --> 00:28:27,116
Speaker 2: album just the title alone can tell you about the

529
00:28:27,236 --> 00:28:29,196
Speaker 2: kind of where, at least from my point of view,

530
00:28:29,236 --> 00:28:31,436
Speaker 2: where I was coming from. And I was ready to

531
00:28:31,596 --> 00:28:34,836
Speaker 2: for something else. I didn't have a life, you know.

532
00:28:35,236 --> 00:28:37,796
Speaker 2: I had a professional a great professional life, but I

533
00:28:37,916 --> 00:28:40,636
Speaker 2: had burned a lot of bridges, you know, you know

534
00:28:40,796 --> 00:28:46,116
Speaker 2: in the process, and I got divorced. Our manager left.

535
00:28:46,556 --> 00:28:49,076
Speaker 2: Tommy Mottola, who was our manager, went to Sony Music

536
00:28:49,156 --> 00:28:51,996
Speaker 2: or to CBS at the time, became the president of CBS.

537
00:28:52,796 --> 00:28:55,996
Speaker 2: He took off on other other other paths with Mariah

538
00:28:56,036 --> 00:28:59,636
Speaker 2: et cetera, and there was. It was like a rudderless ship,

539
00:29:00,676 --> 00:29:04,276
Speaker 2: and so I just checked out. I sold everything I

540
00:29:04,396 --> 00:29:08,596
Speaker 2: had left New York City, moved into my little condo

541
00:29:08,676 --> 00:29:13,196
Speaker 2: and askeding Colorado, and I met my future wife, build

542
00:29:13,196 --> 00:29:15,556
Speaker 2: a house, had a kid, and so for the entire

543
00:29:15,716 --> 00:29:19,436
Speaker 2: decade of the nineties, I went skiing, and I went

544
00:29:19,516 --> 00:29:23,076
Speaker 2: bike riding and hiking and backcountry skiing, and I lived

545
00:29:23,076 --> 00:29:26,636
Speaker 2: a different life. And I realized that music could be

546
00:29:26,716 --> 00:29:28,836
Speaker 2: part of my life, not just the only thing in

547
00:29:28,916 --> 00:29:31,516
Speaker 2: my life. So it was probably the most important thing

548
00:29:31,556 --> 00:29:34,076
Speaker 2: I ever did. And Colorado saved me because I don't

549
00:29:34,076 --> 00:29:35,396
Speaker 2: know what would have happened if I would have stayed

550
00:29:35,396 --> 00:29:37,756
Speaker 2: in New York. I think bad things would happen. Really,

551
00:29:37,836 --> 00:29:41,396
Speaker 2: I would have gone down some dark paths. Was there

552
00:29:41,436 --> 00:29:44,316
Speaker 2: a part of you when you're in Colorado five years

553
00:29:44,356 --> 00:29:49,356
Speaker 2: into this self imposed sabbatical exile from the industry, that

554
00:29:50,076 --> 00:29:54,836
Speaker 2: feels like no, done it? No, No, that's wonderful. The

555
00:29:54,996 --> 00:29:57,476
Speaker 2: best thing ever happened to me. I didn't even make

556
00:29:57,476 --> 00:30:00,396
Speaker 2: any music. We made one album in ninety six. Our

557
00:30:00,436 --> 00:30:02,636
Speaker 2: son had just been born. I wasn't into it. I

558
00:30:02,756 --> 00:30:05,316
Speaker 2: threw in a couple songs, and yeah, we did a

559
00:30:05,396 --> 00:30:08,756
Speaker 2: short tour. It was nothing, and then nothing happened until

560
00:30:08,756 --> 00:30:10,636
Speaker 2: the two thousands, and that's what I made my first

561
00:30:10,676 --> 00:30:13,956
Speaker 2: solo album. It's also when Daryl and I made made

562
00:30:13,996 --> 00:30:17,356
Speaker 2: an album, another album that did fairly well. But at

563
00:30:17,396 --> 00:30:20,836
Speaker 2: that point now I had realized that something needed to change,

564
00:30:21,356 --> 00:30:21,596
Speaker 2: and so.

565
00:30:21,996 --> 00:30:24,996
Speaker 1: The first solo album Functual Funk Shuay.

566
00:30:26,436 --> 00:30:29,156
Speaker 2: Hey, listen, listen. Let me tell you about that real quick.

567
00:30:29,516 --> 00:30:31,516
Speaker 2: I got to I remember getting a review on that album.

568
00:30:31,836 --> 00:30:33,956
Speaker 2: The review was like, it's pretty good record with an

569
00:30:34,036 --> 00:30:38,196
Speaker 2: unfortunate title, you know how the and the title was

570
00:30:38,236 --> 00:30:40,876
Speaker 2: so stupid. Okay. I had a good friend of mine,

571
00:30:40,916 --> 00:30:43,636
Speaker 2: Jed Lieber, who's actually who I borrowed this guitar from.

572
00:30:43,916 --> 00:30:46,316
Speaker 2: He runs the studio at the Sunset Marquee and he's

573
00:30:46,396 --> 00:30:49,396
Speaker 2: he's a fantastic musician. And he and I were doing

574
00:30:49,436 --> 00:30:52,036
Speaker 2: that album together and we were on a plane going

575
00:30:52,316 --> 00:30:54,796
Speaker 2: to New York to finish it, mix it, and we

576
00:30:54,876 --> 00:30:58,156
Speaker 2: had no title for it. And Jed was sitting he

577
00:30:58,236 --> 00:31:00,996
Speaker 2: happened to be sitting next to this Asian gal and

578
00:31:01,116 --> 00:31:03,236
Speaker 2: I was sitting, you know, a few a few rows away,

579
00:31:04,396 --> 00:31:06,476
Speaker 2: and I guess he was talking to her and she said, well,

580
00:31:06,556 --> 00:31:08,356
Speaker 2: what do you what do you you know, what are

581
00:31:08,356 --> 00:31:09,796
Speaker 2: you doing? He goes, oh, I made a record, and

582
00:31:10,356 --> 00:31:12,276
Speaker 2: he goes and she said, what kind of record? He goes, well,

583
00:31:12,276 --> 00:31:14,556
Speaker 2: it's kind of got some funk in it, and she went, oh,

584
00:31:14,756 --> 00:31:18,396
Speaker 2: like funk shway, and I swear to God and he

585
00:31:18,516 --> 00:31:20,396
Speaker 2: comes running up the aisle and he taps you show.

586
00:31:20,436 --> 00:31:23,356
Speaker 2: He goes, I got the title. I went, really, And

587
00:31:23,476 --> 00:31:25,596
Speaker 2: I was stupid enough to believe him, you know, to

588
00:31:26,196 --> 00:31:27,396
Speaker 2: do it. But I thought it was funny.

589
00:31:27,436 --> 00:31:28,956
Speaker 1: So it's kind of cooler way of it is it is.

590
00:31:29,196 --> 00:31:31,036
Speaker 1: It's not is that a super self serious you know?

591
00:31:31,236 --> 00:31:33,996
Speaker 2: It's good anyway. So that album was and here again,

592
00:31:34,476 --> 00:31:36,436
Speaker 2: that album is just a way of getting started because

593
00:31:36,676 --> 00:31:38,516
Speaker 2: it was just a collection of stuff I had. It

594
00:31:38,596 --> 00:31:41,756
Speaker 2: wasn't coherent. It really wasn't until I made the next album,

595
00:31:41,756 --> 00:31:44,276
Speaker 2: One Thousand Miles of Life in Nashville, that I began

596
00:31:44,396 --> 00:31:46,916
Speaker 2: to really hone in on what I was going to

597
00:31:46,956 --> 00:31:48,236
Speaker 2: be as a solo artist.

598
00:31:48,876 --> 00:31:51,356
Speaker 1: Had you moved to Nashville at that point, No, I.

599
00:31:51,436 --> 00:31:53,356
Speaker 2: Was spending a lot of time there. I started going

600
00:31:53,356 --> 00:31:54,596
Speaker 2: to Nashville in the late nineties.

601
00:31:54,676 --> 00:31:55,636
Speaker 1: Okay, tell me about that.

602
00:31:55,836 --> 00:31:58,116
Speaker 2: Well, I had I produced an album for a guy

603
00:31:58,196 --> 00:32:02,676
Speaker 2: named Jerry Lynn Williams, an amazing artist who lived in Tulsa, Oklahoma,

604
00:32:03,076 --> 00:32:06,476
Speaker 2: but he had his business and his publishing and based

605
00:32:06,516 --> 00:32:09,596
Speaker 2: in Nashville. Through working with him, I met some Nashville

606
00:32:09,596 --> 00:32:14,516
Speaker 2: folks and somebody, you know, said, Hey, you gotta come,

607
00:32:14,956 --> 00:32:17,756
Speaker 2: you gotta come to music City. You gotta. I think

608
00:32:17,756 --> 00:32:18,396
Speaker 2: you're gonna like it.

609
00:32:18,596 --> 00:32:18,996
Speaker 11: You like it.

610
00:32:19,116 --> 00:32:21,036
Speaker 2: And when I went there for the first time in

611
00:32:21,076 --> 00:32:24,676
Speaker 2: the late nineties, I did a couple demo sessions and

612
00:32:24,916 --> 00:32:28,316
Speaker 2: the players were just so good, and it was a

613
00:32:28,396 --> 00:32:30,676
Speaker 2: whole different thing because you know, up to that time,

614
00:32:31,116 --> 00:32:33,556
Speaker 2: early seventies, I had never played in any other band.

615
00:32:33,636 --> 00:32:36,036
Speaker 2: I was in the Whole Notes band, so all I

616
00:32:36,156 --> 00:32:39,676
Speaker 2: did was that and it was great, but and with

617
00:32:39,796 --> 00:32:41,996
Speaker 2: great musicians, of course, But all of a sudden I

618
00:32:42,156 --> 00:32:44,596
Speaker 2: was walked into a completely new environment, and all of

619
00:32:44,636 --> 00:32:47,596
Speaker 2: a sudden I realized that the players I was playing

620
00:32:47,636 --> 00:32:50,876
Speaker 2: with had a lot of the same roots and influences

621
00:32:51,076 --> 00:32:55,116
Speaker 2: as my early folk stuff. So it kind of it

622
00:32:55,236 --> 00:32:58,116
Speaker 2: took that side of me that I had set aside

623
00:32:58,636 --> 00:33:01,236
Speaker 2: for all those years, and I started bringing it out.

624
00:33:01,796 --> 00:33:03,596
Speaker 2: And because then I would sit down, you know, with

625
00:33:03,756 --> 00:33:05,116
Speaker 2: some of these guys and I played like a dog

626
00:33:05,156 --> 00:33:06,876
Speaker 2: watch and they go, I know you could do that.

627
00:33:07,276 --> 00:33:08,316
Speaker 1: I said, well, yeah, I can.

628
00:33:09,116 --> 00:33:11,156
Speaker 2: I kind of forgot about it, but I want to remember.

629
00:33:11,556 --> 00:33:12,916
Speaker 1: So it was the shock to everyone else too in

630
00:33:13,116 --> 00:33:13,516
Speaker 1: some ways.

631
00:33:14,436 --> 00:33:16,996
Speaker 2: And so but one of the first things I realized

632
00:33:17,156 --> 00:33:20,676
Speaker 2: in Nashville was my name and reputation might get me

633
00:33:20,756 --> 00:33:23,436
Speaker 2: in the door, but in order to stay at the party,

634
00:33:23,516 --> 00:33:26,756
Speaker 2: I better be able to bring it. Because you're talking

635
00:33:26,756 --> 00:33:29,516
Speaker 2: about a level of musicianship on a whole other level.

636
00:33:30,236 --> 00:33:34,996
Speaker 2: And I was complacent. I could play the whole Notes

637
00:33:35,036 --> 00:33:39,316
Speaker 2: show in my sleep, wasn't doing anything but that. And

638
00:33:39,516 --> 00:33:41,676
Speaker 2: I needed a challenge, and I was all of a sudden,

639
00:33:41,716 --> 00:33:45,756
Speaker 2: I was thrust into rooms with superlative players Jerry Douglas,

640
00:33:45,996 --> 00:33:48,796
Speaker 2: Sam Bush By La Fleck, you know, people you know,

641
00:33:48,916 --> 00:33:51,796
Speaker 2: and the great studio musicians. You know, got three trapped

642
00:33:51,796 --> 00:33:55,236
Speaker 2: people who could really play. And so I started wood shedding.

643
00:33:55,276 --> 00:33:58,596
Speaker 2: I started practicing again, and I started bringing back that

644
00:33:59,036 --> 00:34:02,916
Speaker 2: folk stuff, the early influences, and I realized, wait a minute,

645
00:34:03,596 --> 00:34:06,356
Speaker 2: the key that was the key that unlocked who I

646
00:34:06,476 --> 00:34:08,956
Speaker 2: could be as a solo artist, because I didn't know

647
00:34:09,196 --> 00:34:12,196
Speaker 2: it could be because my entire musical personality was wrapped

648
00:34:12,276 --> 00:34:14,516
Speaker 2: up in my collaboration with Right.

649
00:34:14,636 --> 00:34:18,636
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, did did that then affect the way that

650
00:34:18,716 --> 00:34:22,316
Speaker 1: you approached going back and playing on Hollan Oates tours? Yeah?

651
00:34:22,476 --> 00:34:25,476
Speaker 2: I didn't want to do it, Okay, I did it

652
00:34:25,596 --> 00:34:27,716
Speaker 2: because you know, the money was great and there was

653
00:34:27,756 --> 00:34:28,476
Speaker 2: a demand.

654
00:34:28,236 --> 00:34:30,836
Speaker 1: For it, people and people. Of course, I took my

655
00:34:30,956 --> 00:34:32,956
Speaker 1: daughter to see you guys, hey listen first her first

656
00:34:32,956 --> 00:34:36,916
Speaker 1: show and Aspen Jazz Fest like in seventeen.

657
00:34:37,116 --> 00:34:39,156
Speaker 2: I remember we played that. Yeah, yeah, well, you know what.

658
00:34:39,836 --> 00:34:42,796
Speaker 2: It was great, But I've really felt like I was

659
00:34:42,876 --> 00:34:46,476
Speaker 2: treading water. I mean, we had we had the most

660
00:34:46,596 --> 00:34:48,956
Speaker 2: unbelievable problem. We had too many hits.

661
00:34:49,756 --> 00:34:50,796
Speaker 1: Wow is that a problem?

662
00:34:51,396 --> 00:34:54,316
Speaker 2: Because that's all people wanted to hear. They didn't want

663
00:34:54,356 --> 00:34:56,676
Speaker 2: to hear anything else. So even though we had a

664
00:34:56,756 --> 00:35:00,916
Speaker 2: tremendously deep catalog, and I'll speak for Darryl on this too,

665
00:35:01,396 --> 00:35:04,196
Speaker 2: he had unbelievable songs that he was dying to play,

666
00:35:04,556 --> 00:35:07,876
Speaker 2: we couldn't play him every show. We'd chewhorn one song

667
00:35:07,996 --> 00:35:11,516
Speaker 2: in one song, you know, some obscure Oats song, and

668
00:35:11,596 --> 00:35:14,556
Speaker 2: then we do one of his obscure you know, solo

669
00:35:14,676 --> 00:35:17,756
Speaker 2: songs or whatever. And I'm sure it was just as

670
00:35:17,796 --> 00:35:20,156
Speaker 2: frustrating for him as it was for me. But as

671
00:35:20,236 --> 00:35:23,916
Speaker 2: time went on and I began to be excited about

672
00:35:23,956 --> 00:35:26,756
Speaker 2: what I could do in Nashville with the players, and

673
00:35:27,196 --> 00:35:31,436
Speaker 2: you know, the opportunity that might started presenting themselves, I

674
00:35:31,756 --> 00:35:32,796
Speaker 2: just couldn't do it anymore.

675
00:35:34,076 --> 00:35:36,516
Speaker 1: After this last break, we'll be back with John Oates.

676
00:35:40,956 --> 00:35:43,796
Speaker 1: Do you think there's a world if the audience, the

677
00:35:43,876 --> 00:35:48,116
Speaker 1: Hollan Oats audience had been more accepting of what you

678
00:35:48,236 --> 00:35:51,476
Speaker 1: guys wanted to present, do you think it would have

679
00:35:51,756 --> 00:35:52,516
Speaker 1: interesting question?

680
00:35:53,796 --> 00:35:56,476
Speaker 2: You know, the hardcore holl of Oats fans would have

681
00:35:56,596 --> 00:35:59,756
Speaker 2: been but we weren't playing only to hardcore. We were

682
00:35:59,796 --> 00:36:02,316
Speaker 2: playing to the general public, and a lot of them.

683
00:36:02,676 --> 00:36:06,956
Speaker 2: When you're playing an arena, a big Giants show, fifteen

684
00:36:07,036 --> 00:36:11,716
Speaker 2: eighteen thousand people, they're not all hardcore fans. There's a

685
00:36:11,756 --> 00:36:14,196
Speaker 2: hardcore group, and they would have been open to anything.

686
00:36:14,436 --> 00:36:16,676
Speaker 2: I always found the the true hall Odes fans were

687
00:36:16,876 --> 00:36:20,396
Speaker 2: very open minded. But we we were more than that.

688
00:36:20,556 --> 00:36:23,276
Speaker 2: We yeah, you know, bigger than both of us. Yes,

689
00:36:23,996 --> 00:36:27,076
Speaker 2: there's the title of an album. There's a great, great

690
00:36:27,116 --> 00:36:29,636
Speaker 2: ale and it and it says a lot.

691
00:36:29,836 --> 00:36:31,636
Speaker 1: What's opening track on that? That's a great song too,

692
00:36:31,716 --> 00:36:32,236
Speaker 1: and that was that.

693
00:36:32,316 --> 00:36:35,676
Speaker 2: Was bigger than both of us. Was a single, was it?

694
00:36:35,756 --> 00:36:38,356
Speaker 1: The first track was uh yeah, back together of course,

695
00:36:38,396 --> 00:36:39,476
Speaker 1: back together again, back together.

696
00:36:39,716 --> 00:36:40,676
Speaker 2: You want to hear a story about that?

697
00:36:40,796 --> 00:36:41,116
Speaker 1: Please?

698
00:36:41,276 --> 00:36:44,556
Speaker 2: Everybody thinks back together again, back together again? Probably talking

699
00:36:44,556 --> 00:36:46,436
Speaker 2: about me and Daryl or something like that, huhuh, not

700
00:36:46,516 --> 00:36:49,756
Speaker 2: even clothes. I was on a flight. I was sitting

701
00:36:49,756 --> 00:36:52,676
Speaker 2: in first class coming back from New Orleans from a festival,

702
00:36:52,716 --> 00:36:58,076
Speaker 2: I think, and I was sitting next to Frankie Valley, amazing,

703
00:36:58,996 --> 00:37:01,156
Speaker 2: and he and I talked a whole way on the flight,

704
00:37:01,196 --> 00:37:03,596
Speaker 2: and he told me the whole story, you know, the

705
00:37:03,716 --> 00:37:06,276
Speaker 2: Jersey Boards story about you know, the problem with his

706
00:37:06,676 --> 00:37:09,716
Speaker 2: you know, his daughter and the band and this and

707
00:37:09,836 --> 00:37:13,436
Speaker 2: that and how he you know, he wanted to step

708
00:37:13,516 --> 00:37:17,196
Speaker 2: away in anyone. And that's what it's about. It's about

709
00:37:17,316 --> 00:37:21,836
Speaker 2: back together again, singing the same old story, back together again.

710
00:37:22,236 --> 00:37:24,236
Speaker 2: The old songs never end, but it will give me

711
00:37:24,356 --> 00:37:27,076
Speaker 2: something to believe in. And I wrote the whole song

712
00:37:27,116 --> 00:37:30,276
Speaker 2: about him, about what he told me on that flight.

713
00:37:30,516 --> 00:37:32,596
Speaker 1: That's wild, yeah, I mean, is that a song you

714
00:37:32,676 --> 00:37:33,556
Speaker 1: guys would play live?

715
00:37:33,716 --> 00:37:35,876
Speaker 2: We we actually used to open the show with it,

716
00:37:36,516 --> 00:37:39,796
Speaker 2: especially in the mid seventies. Yeah, yeah, and we played

717
00:37:39,836 --> 00:37:42,996
Speaker 2: it even as early as maybe three four years ago

718
00:37:43,596 --> 00:37:44,836
Speaker 2: or latest three four years ago.

719
00:37:45,356 --> 00:37:51,116
Speaker 1: Is there a world naively? No, No, not even doing

720
00:37:51,156 --> 00:37:52,236
Speaker 1: that deep No.

721
00:37:53,436 --> 00:37:56,316
Speaker 2: As Darre Hall so aptly said on an interview, that

722
00:37:56,476 --> 00:37:59,916
Speaker 2: ship has sailed. In fact, he said, and I quote,

723
00:38:00,676 --> 00:38:02,396
Speaker 2: not only has that ship has sailed, it's sunk to

724
00:38:02,436 --> 00:38:06,316
Speaker 2: the bottom of the ocean looking up. I didn't say it,

725
00:38:06,396 --> 00:38:06,636
Speaker 2: he did.

726
00:38:06,836 --> 00:38:08,996
Speaker 1: Does that? What end do you feel? Is that you

727
00:38:09,196 --> 00:38:10,076
Speaker 1: hear that? You think? Yeah?

728
00:38:10,116 --> 00:38:15,356
Speaker 2: Same, I'm free yea, yeah, I'm very very I'm very optimistic. Look,

729
00:38:16,236 --> 00:38:19,316
Speaker 2: anyone's creative life has a timestamp. That's the way I

730
00:38:19,396 --> 00:38:22,316
Speaker 2: look at it. I see I see our contemporaries, my

731
00:38:22,436 --> 00:38:25,876
Speaker 2: contemporaries falling by the wayside, whether it's through passing away

732
00:38:26,196 --> 00:38:28,796
Speaker 2: or just not being able to do it anymore for

733
00:38:28,916 --> 00:38:32,676
Speaker 2: any number of reasons, sickness, bad luck, misfortune.

734
00:38:32,796 --> 00:38:33,036
Speaker 1: Whatever.

735
00:38:33,556 --> 00:38:36,156
Speaker 2: I can still play, I can still sing, I can travel,

736
00:38:36,396 --> 00:38:40,476
Speaker 2: I'm still healthy. I don't want to lose this opportunity

737
00:38:40,756 --> 00:38:44,636
Speaker 2: to do as much as I can because they're but

738
00:38:44,796 --> 00:38:45,676
Speaker 2: for fortune.

739
00:38:45,356 --> 00:38:46,116
Speaker 1: Go you or I? Right?

740
00:38:46,236 --> 00:38:48,636
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it could change, could change right now. I

741
00:38:48,676 --> 00:38:51,196
Speaker 2: could walk out this door and fall down the elevator,

742
00:38:51,236 --> 00:38:55,196
Speaker 2: shift and see you later by So I don't have

743
00:38:55,316 --> 00:38:57,556
Speaker 2: much time left. I want to make the most of it.

744
00:38:57,596 --> 00:38:59,796
Speaker 1: It's amazing in a way. It's like you're back in Colorado,

745
00:38:59,876 --> 00:39:02,076
Speaker 1: but you're able to do it with your own music.

746
00:39:02,396 --> 00:39:04,796
Speaker 1: So you're doing music on your own terms, and that's beautiful.

747
00:39:05,356 --> 00:39:07,716
Speaker 1: Can you play something from your from your new album Oates?

748
00:39:07,836 --> 00:39:08,116
Speaker 2: Sure?

749
00:39:09,596 --> 00:39:11,556
Speaker 1: Whatever your favorite. I'm curious what your favorite might be.

750
00:39:11,716 --> 00:39:14,996
Speaker 2: Oh, okay, yeah, I do have a favorite. I've got

751
00:39:14,996 --> 00:39:16,956
Speaker 2: a lot of favorites. Because I'm really proud of this record.

752
00:39:19,596 --> 00:39:22,276
Speaker 2: I'm gonna play a song that I co wrote with

753
00:39:22,436 --> 00:39:26,836
Speaker 2: a really a great talented guy named Jed Hughes. Jed

754
00:39:26,996 --> 00:39:30,836
Speaker 2: is one of the go to top Nashville session guitarists.

755
00:39:31,636 --> 00:39:34,676
Speaker 2: He plays on tons of people's records if he's from Australia,

756
00:39:34,756 --> 00:39:37,596
Speaker 2: but he plays predominantly on country music. But he's also

757
00:39:37,596 --> 00:39:39,876
Speaker 2: a great songwriter in his own He and I. I

758
00:39:40,036 --> 00:39:42,076
Speaker 2: was really impressed with him and I, you know, we

759
00:39:42,156 --> 00:39:44,996
Speaker 2: talked about getting together and his schedule and my schedule

760
00:39:45,036 --> 00:39:47,756
Speaker 2: were so busy we couldn't find a time to get together.

761
00:39:48,236 --> 00:39:50,676
Speaker 2: And we kept we kept picking a date and he'd say, oh,

762
00:39:50,716 --> 00:39:52,916
Speaker 2: I can't do that one. And I hear he picked

763
00:39:52,956 --> 00:39:54,556
Speaker 2: and I said, well, no, I'm out of town, and

764
00:39:54,636 --> 00:39:57,836
Speaker 2: blah blah blah. So eventually we just said, look, we're

765
00:39:57,876 --> 00:39:59,676
Speaker 2: never gonna be able to get together unless we picked

766
00:39:59,756 --> 00:40:02,796
Speaker 2: some date that's a ways away from you know, And

767
00:40:02,876 --> 00:40:05,756
Speaker 2: I went aways away and I said to him on

768
00:40:05,796 --> 00:40:08,236
Speaker 2: the phone, I said, that's a freaking great title. And

769
00:40:08,356 --> 00:40:10,636
Speaker 2: he went, yeah, that's that's cool. I said, So when

770
00:40:10,676 --> 00:40:13,236
Speaker 2: we finally do get together, that's a song we're gonna write.

771
00:40:13,236 --> 00:40:14,116
Speaker 2: I don't know what it's gonna be.

772
00:40:14,676 --> 00:40:17,396
Speaker 1: That's the song. So you earmarked it and you came

773
00:40:17,476 --> 00:40:17,836
Speaker 1: back there.

774
00:40:17,996 --> 00:40:22,076
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh yeah, all right, just goes a little. I'm

775
00:40:22,116 --> 00:40:23,796
Speaker 2: gonna try. It's a tough song to sing, but I'm

776
00:40:23,796 --> 00:40:24,436
Speaker 2: gonna do my best.

777
00:40:24,476 --> 00:40:24,596
Speaker 1: Here.

778
00:40:38,236 --> 00:40:42,316
Speaker 4: You say it's hard to stay, it's enough to me

779
00:40:44,396 --> 00:40:51,676
Speaker 4: to talk. Don't talking about Anything's used to be those

780
00:40:51,796 --> 00:40:58,796
Speaker 4: heavy moment and it's just skip common we call sleep

781
00:40:58,836 --> 00:41:05,036
Speaker 4: and finished. We just kN hear the words.

782
00:41:07,236 --> 00:41:08,396
Speaker 2: I can't even think.

783
00:41:08,356 --> 00:41:14,716
Speaker 5: You'll see if you aren't any why did we could

784
00:41:14,796 --> 00:41:15,756
Speaker 5: get one playing?

785
00:41:16,556 --> 00:41:21,596
Speaker 4: Because it's not black or blood. It's just a good shade.

786
00:41:21,636 --> 00:41:23,556
Speaker 4: It's a great and raise.

787
00:41:23,476 --> 00:41:32,996
Speaker 12: A ways awaken just the way, it's just the way

788
00:41:33,036 --> 00:41:36,476
Speaker 12: it is, just the way it is. You're a raise

789
00:41:36,556 --> 00:41:44,716
Speaker 12: a home, he's always.

790
00:41:45,556 --> 00:41:46,076
Speaker 7: Just the way.

791
00:41:50,396 --> 00:41:57,636
Speaker 13: Let's bring it back into the room. Let's break it

792
00:41:57,756 --> 00:42:00,956
Speaker 13: down and put us back here to.

793
00:42:01,116 --> 00:42:07,236
Speaker 4: The sweet man. Everything is keeping.

794
00:42:09,916 --> 00:42:14,756
Speaker 8: Well, boss a finnishly whether they just keep you better?

795
00:42:16,516 --> 00:42:20,676
Speaker 8: Were the time the time wins.

796
00:42:23,076 --> 00:42:27,516
Speaker 5: Can't imagine that I could be able to keep anything

797
00:42:28,716 --> 00:42:31,316
Speaker 5: because it's not the black or lad.

798
00:42:31,476 --> 00:42:36,916
Speaker 4: It's just a d in shades break ways already.

799
00:42:41,756 --> 00:42:45,356
Speaker 12: Raise a wedding just the ways of just the ways

800
00:42:45,636 --> 00:42:46,956
Speaker 12: or just the way.

801
00:42:46,956 --> 00:42:49,236
Speaker 4: Is a bread were raising.

802
00:42:54,716 --> 00:42:58,436
Speaker 12: Ways a wedding is the rais uh just the way.

803
00:43:13,756 --> 00:43:26,276
Speaker 4: You wisl never thought it keeping man got any say

804
00:43:28,356 --> 00:43:31,636
Speaker 4: just the way he's just the way his h just

805
00:43:31,756 --> 00:43:35,836
Speaker 4: the way he is. Way sweet man, really is keep

806
00:43:35,956 --> 00:43:47,836
Speaker 4: coming sweet escape come yeah you wasel.

807
00:43:56,156 --> 00:43:58,116
Speaker 1: I love the way you play man. Oh thanks, I

808
00:43:58,236 --> 00:44:03,236
Speaker 1: really do think you those kinds of chords, Yeah, people

809
00:44:03,276 --> 00:44:04,876
Speaker 1: don't really, I don't not wht of people play like

810
00:44:04,916 --> 00:44:06,156
Speaker 1: that anymore. Where do you get those what do you

811
00:44:06,156 --> 00:44:07,076
Speaker 1: get those kinds of quality?

812
00:44:07,156 --> 00:44:07,316
Speaker 11: You know what?

813
00:44:07,356 --> 00:44:09,716
Speaker 2: I gotta give Daryl Hall some some props here because

814
00:44:09,836 --> 00:44:11,836
Speaker 2: when I, you know, here, I was a folky player.

815
00:44:11,876 --> 00:44:13,556
Speaker 2: You know, I'm doing all these cowboy chords, you know,

816
00:44:18,916 --> 00:44:20,996
Speaker 2: and uh, you know, he was a great piano player.

817
00:44:21,116 --> 00:44:23,596
Speaker 2: He is a great piano player, and he played some

818
00:44:23,756 --> 00:44:26,796
Speaker 2: unusual inversions. He would always do substitutions and stuff. And

819
00:44:26,876 --> 00:44:28,916
Speaker 2: I had to figure that out on the guitar and

820
00:44:28,996 --> 00:44:31,076
Speaker 2: adapt to my guitar playing style. In fact, when I

821
00:44:31,116 --> 00:44:32,916
Speaker 2: first got to Nashville, a lot of a lot of

822
00:44:33,116 --> 00:44:34,676
Speaker 2: people said, oh, well, you kind of play like a

823
00:44:34,716 --> 00:44:37,156
Speaker 2: piano player. And I was like, well, yeah, it's kind

824
00:44:37,156 --> 00:44:40,116
Speaker 2: of reason for that. So yeah, full props there. But

825
00:44:41,076 --> 00:44:43,956
Speaker 2: and over the time, I've adapted and you know, changed

826
00:44:44,036 --> 00:44:48,156
Speaker 2: my style. Uh and I just I do a lot

827
00:44:48,196 --> 00:44:50,796
Speaker 2: of more sophisticated voicings and stuff like that.

828
00:44:51,316 --> 00:44:53,556
Speaker 1: Even back. So would you say your your style has

829
00:44:53,676 --> 00:44:54,596
Speaker 1: changed from even.

830
00:44:55,156 --> 00:44:57,516
Speaker 2: Well, it's gotten it's definitely gotten more sophisticated now.

831
00:44:58,076 --> 00:44:58,316
Speaker 1: Yeah.

832
00:44:59,596 --> 00:45:01,756
Speaker 2: Also, as I said, I began to woodshed when I

833
00:45:01,796 --> 00:45:04,836
Speaker 2: got to Nashville, playing practice like a madman, just to

834
00:45:04,956 --> 00:45:05,956
Speaker 2: keep up with those cats.

835
00:45:06,076 --> 00:45:08,996
Speaker 1: Yeah and yeah, so what does woodshedding look like for you?

836
00:45:09,196 --> 00:45:09,236
Speaker 7: You?

837
00:45:09,716 --> 00:45:11,956
Speaker 2: Uh, practicing playing every day pretty much.

838
00:45:12,196 --> 00:45:14,436
Speaker 11: What you just listened listening to records and playing or no,

839
00:45:14,996 --> 00:45:19,276
Speaker 11: just you know, just exercises for the fingers, you know,

840
00:45:21,236 --> 00:45:27,196
Speaker 11: you know, all kinds of weird exercises, you know, stuff

841
00:45:27,276 --> 00:45:29,596
Speaker 11: like that, just stuff that keeps you know, as I said,

842
00:45:29,676 --> 00:45:30,596
Speaker 11: you know, I'm getting older.

843
00:45:30,676 --> 00:45:32,556
Speaker 2: You know, I want to make sure my fingers still work.

844
00:45:32,636 --> 00:45:33,996
Speaker 1: And so you know, I do that.

845
00:45:34,396 --> 00:45:38,956
Speaker 2: And really, my my practicing really is more songwriting, you know,

846
00:45:39,236 --> 00:45:44,356
Speaker 2: I'm I'm I start writing stuff, you know, Like there's

847
00:45:44,396 --> 00:45:47,196
Speaker 2: a song that I collaborated on the record with Lawrence

848
00:45:47,316 --> 00:45:49,276
Speaker 2: the band. I don't know if you know Lawrence. They're

849
00:45:49,316 --> 00:45:52,916
Speaker 2: so great. And I challenged myself to write a song

850
00:45:52,956 --> 00:45:55,156
Speaker 2: that sounded like them because I was inspired by their music.

851
00:45:55,316 --> 00:45:57,516
Speaker 2: I was listening to their albums and really digging the

852
00:45:57,556 --> 00:45:59,596
Speaker 2: fact that they had so much energy and joy and

853
00:46:00,076 --> 00:46:02,036
Speaker 2: and I really and I said, so I was sitting around,

854
00:46:02,036 --> 00:46:03,356
Speaker 2: I'm going to see if I can write a song

855
00:46:03,396 --> 00:46:05,156
Speaker 2: of sounds. And then when I wrote the song, it

856
00:46:05,276 --> 00:46:07,916
Speaker 2: sounded so much like them. I actually took some of

857
00:46:07,956 --> 00:46:09,836
Speaker 2: their lyrics from one of their songs, put it in

858
00:46:09,956 --> 00:46:13,676
Speaker 2: my song and send it to them. And and I said, hey,

859
00:46:13,716 --> 00:46:15,036
Speaker 2: I just want to let you know I'm not trying

860
00:46:15,036 --> 00:46:17,556
Speaker 2: to rip you off. I want I want to collaborate

861
00:46:17,636 --> 00:46:19,396
Speaker 2: with you, and they liked the idea and we did

862
00:46:19,436 --> 00:46:19,836
Speaker 2: it together.

863
00:46:19,916 --> 00:46:22,156
Speaker 1: So it's great. So that's so cool. That's great feedback,

864
00:46:22,196 --> 00:46:24,636
Speaker 1: fro it could be kind of dice. Yeah, well I

865
00:46:24,676 --> 00:46:26,516
Speaker 1: took a chance, you know, I took a shot. Yeah.

866
00:46:27,196 --> 00:46:29,236
Speaker 2: I figured they send me an email and say, yeah,

867
00:46:29,276 --> 00:46:30,636
Speaker 2: you know, yeah, it's a pretty good song. But we

868
00:46:30,636 --> 00:46:32,196
Speaker 2: don't really feel like doing a song with someone as

869
00:46:32,276 --> 00:46:33,116
Speaker 2: old as our grandfather.

870
00:46:33,716 --> 00:46:36,156
Speaker 1: So listen, man, what's your John Oates?

871
00:46:36,236 --> 00:46:39,516
Speaker 2: Come on, Clyde and Gracie Lawrence are they are fantastic.

872
00:46:39,796 --> 00:46:42,076
Speaker 2: They're fantastic people and amazing artists.

873
00:46:42,396 --> 00:46:44,956
Speaker 1: That's so cool, man. I want to get back to Nashville,

874
00:46:45,236 --> 00:46:47,076
Speaker 1: But I kind of preview it earlier. I mean, you guys,

875
00:46:47,116 --> 00:46:50,796
Speaker 1: have you Let's say, you got to experience some really

876
00:46:50,916 --> 00:46:55,916
Speaker 1: unique scenes throughout over the years, one of them being

877
00:46:57,996 --> 00:47:00,356
Speaker 1: a really changing New York scene. You guys made war

878
00:47:00,436 --> 00:47:05,076
Speaker 1: Babies in New York when CBGB was with Todd Runger

879
00:47:05,236 --> 00:47:08,356
Speaker 1: with Todd Runggren, Like when like, you know, television's playing

880
00:47:08,356 --> 00:47:10,636
Speaker 1: every night, and I used to go to all those

881
00:47:10,676 --> 00:47:12,996
Speaker 1: places and you would see that, you'd see all those groups, right, sure,

882
00:47:13,436 --> 00:47:15,996
Speaker 1: what I mean, did you have a favorite was were

883
00:47:16,036 --> 00:47:17,676
Speaker 1: you turned off by the music? What was I was?

884
00:47:18,076 --> 00:47:21,636
Speaker 2: I was excited by a new wave and that kind

885
00:47:21,676 --> 00:47:25,276
Speaker 2: of proto punk movement, only because it was new, not

886
00:47:25,476 --> 00:47:28,956
Speaker 2: because I related to it on a musical level. I

887
00:47:29,036 --> 00:47:31,836
Speaker 2: thought it was, you know, fairly simplistic and kind of

888
00:47:31,996 --> 00:47:35,756
Speaker 2: like although I always like television, I like the guitar parts.

889
00:47:35,796 --> 00:47:39,036
Speaker 2: They were really interesting. But you know, Patti Smith and

890
00:47:39,356 --> 00:47:42,116
Speaker 2: and all that stuff that was going on. It was

891
00:47:43,076 --> 00:47:47,796
Speaker 2: it was you know, it was like non melodic but

892
00:47:48,356 --> 00:47:52,356
Speaker 2: exciting because it was it was new and fresh, so

893
00:47:52,836 --> 00:47:56,956
Speaker 2: that was the cool part. I mean, I tried to

894
00:47:57,916 --> 00:48:01,396
Speaker 2: I try to use the here again the inspiration for

895
00:48:01,556 --> 00:48:04,116
Speaker 2: the energy of what they were doing, but not try

896
00:48:04,156 --> 00:48:06,796
Speaker 2: to ape what they were actually doing, because I didn't

897
00:48:06,796 --> 00:48:08,836
Speaker 2: want to, like try to be something I wasn't, you know.

898
00:48:10,436 --> 00:48:12,156
Speaker 2: I wrote a song like I was a big fan

899
00:48:12,236 --> 00:48:15,676
Speaker 2: of the Psychedelic First and I still am good friends

900
00:48:15,716 --> 00:48:19,756
Speaker 2: with Richard Butler and uh and uh. I love them,

901
00:48:19,796 --> 00:48:21,636
Speaker 2: and I try to write a song it sounded like

902
00:48:21,636 --> 00:48:23,676
Speaker 2: I remember a song called Friday let Me Down Tonight,

903
00:48:24,356 --> 00:48:27,396
Speaker 2: which well, it's it's to me. It sounds like Psychedelic First.

904
00:48:27,636 --> 00:48:30,596
Speaker 2: Richard Butler probably doesn't think so, but you know, that

905
00:48:30,756 --> 00:48:32,556
Speaker 2: was just one of those things where I, you know,

906
00:48:32,716 --> 00:48:35,116
Speaker 2: try to try to capture that kind of spirit. But

907
00:48:35,356 --> 00:48:37,316
Speaker 2: uh no, I think you got to stay true to

908
00:48:37,356 --> 00:48:39,236
Speaker 2: the school, to your school, you know what I mean. Yeah,

909
00:48:40,596 --> 00:48:42,716
Speaker 2: you know, it's it's one thing to try things, but

910
00:48:42,796 --> 00:48:44,996
Speaker 2: at the same time, you got to know where where

911
00:48:45,036 --> 00:48:45,916
Speaker 2: your sweet spots are.

912
00:48:46,196 --> 00:48:50,956
Speaker 1: Yeah, so energetically you but energetically that's energetically a fan. Yeah,

913
00:48:51,076 --> 00:48:54,036
Speaker 1: a fan. You go like right from there to your

914
00:48:54,156 --> 00:48:56,196
Speaker 1: to your point earlier where you come to La to

915
00:48:56,676 --> 00:48:59,116
Speaker 1: record the silver album. You go like to almost like

916
00:48:59,196 --> 00:49:03,476
Speaker 1: the diametrically opposing vibe in the sense, and and it's

917
00:49:03,556 --> 00:49:05,676
Speaker 1: like but then you're hanging out with weird people, like

918
00:49:06,036 --> 00:49:07,796
Speaker 1: not weird people, but like people you might not expect

919
00:49:07,836 --> 00:49:10,756
Speaker 1: what's like like Frank Zapp, but you know, you're like, like,

920
00:49:10,956 --> 00:49:11,716
Speaker 1: what the world?

921
00:49:12,356 --> 00:49:14,796
Speaker 2: You know, it's really funny Frank Zappa. We were sitting

922
00:49:14,836 --> 00:49:18,956
Speaker 2: at the Roxy with Frank Zappa and John Mayle, right

923
00:49:19,196 --> 00:49:21,756
Speaker 2: or something that John Mayle and all those people. You know,

924
00:49:21,796 --> 00:49:24,436
Speaker 2: it's the seventies, you know. I remember we sat at

925
00:49:24,476 --> 00:49:26,356
Speaker 2: a booth. Me and Daryl were sitting at a booth

926
00:49:26,436 --> 00:49:31,036
Speaker 2: with Frank Zappa, after a show, and Frank Zappa said,

927
00:49:31,276 --> 00:49:33,316
Speaker 2: I remember never forgetting he said, he said, you know,

928
00:49:33,436 --> 00:49:37,396
Speaker 2: you guys, you guys should should stop making records and

929
00:49:38,876 --> 00:49:41,956
Speaker 2: have a television show. That's what he said. Interestingly enough,

930
00:49:42,036 --> 00:49:45,316
Speaker 2: Daryl listened to him. Daryl got his life.

931
00:49:45,196 --> 00:49:48,916
Speaker 1: From decades later. That actually would have been a great idea.

932
00:49:48,996 --> 00:49:51,596
Speaker 1: By the way, well, I think he's probably right, you guys.

933
00:49:51,396 --> 00:49:53,076
Speaker 2: That had it like a but we didn't do too

934
00:49:53,116 --> 00:49:54,036
Speaker 2: bad on the recording sign.

935
00:49:54,116 --> 00:49:54,716
Speaker 1: No you didn't.

936
00:49:54,996 --> 00:49:58,156
Speaker 2: No, Frank, you know, Frank Zappa was a real futurist.

937
00:49:58,356 --> 00:50:01,036
Speaker 2: I mean he really, I mean I see some of

938
00:50:01,076 --> 00:50:03,516
Speaker 2: these interviews and stuff that he did back in the

939
00:50:03,596 --> 00:50:07,036
Speaker 2: day talking about I mean he really was like.

940
00:50:07,116 --> 00:50:09,396
Speaker 1: What was going on the internet and artists, right, yeah,

941
00:50:09,796 --> 00:50:13,396
Speaker 1: really brilliant. Yeah, his music was like that must have

942
00:50:13,436 --> 00:50:16,836
Speaker 1: been a that didn't didn't mean anything to didn't resonate. No, yeah,

943
00:50:17,236 --> 00:50:18,716
Speaker 1: very very very uh.

944
00:50:19,116 --> 00:50:22,676
Speaker 2: Yeah, although I did like Captain b part what really.

945
00:50:23,436 --> 00:50:30,276
Speaker 1: That's even more to be honest, like LA in the seventies, unbelievable?

946
00:50:30,316 --> 00:50:32,516
Speaker 1: What yeah? What was that so good? What was that?

947
00:50:32,756 --> 00:50:32,796
Speaker 11: Like?

948
00:50:32,996 --> 00:50:36,756
Speaker 2: I can't tell you, I can't tell you I get arrested.

949
00:50:38,556 --> 00:50:39,076
Speaker 1: Do you miss it?

950
00:50:40,196 --> 00:50:43,716
Speaker 2: I thought, I thought was I thought LA in the

951
00:50:43,796 --> 00:50:47,676
Speaker 2: seventies was like going to like going to Nirvana. The

952
00:50:47,876 --> 00:50:50,316
Speaker 2: roads were empty, you could drive, You could drive to

953
00:50:50,396 --> 00:50:52,996
Speaker 2: freaking Mexico in an hour and forty five minutes.

954
00:50:54,676 --> 00:50:54,996
Speaker 4: You could.

955
00:50:56,196 --> 00:50:59,676
Speaker 2: He could just do whatever you wanted to and everybody

956
00:50:59,916 --> 00:51:04,156
Speaker 2: was loose and cool and it was it was just yeah,

957
00:51:04,236 --> 00:51:06,156
Speaker 2: it was fun. I mean, we did three albums out

958
00:51:06,156 --> 00:51:08,716
Speaker 2: here and we didn't live here, but we spent months,

959
00:51:09,356 --> 00:51:11,836
Speaker 2: you know, renting houses and things like that while we

960
00:51:11,916 --> 00:51:12,476
Speaker 2: were recording.

961
00:51:12,876 --> 00:51:13,916
Speaker 1: And at the time.

962
00:51:15,676 --> 00:51:17,796
Speaker 2: There was a guy named Christopher Bond who was in

963
00:51:17,876 --> 00:51:20,916
Speaker 2: our band in the early seventies. He had moved to

964
00:51:21,396 --> 00:51:24,476
Speaker 2: LA to make his way as a producer, very talented guy,

965
00:51:25,156 --> 00:51:30,236
Speaker 2: and after the word Babies thing with Todd Runggren, when

966
00:51:30,276 --> 00:51:33,156
Speaker 2: that didn't connect, you know, he said, you guys need

967
00:51:33,276 --> 00:51:35,116
Speaker 2: to come out here. He goes, I've got the studios,

968
00:51:35,236 --> 00:51:38,516
Speaker 2: I've got the great players, I've got it all wired.

969
00:51:38,796 --> 00:51:40,836
Speaker 2: Come out here will make a great record. And we

970
00:51:40,956 --> 00:51:42,876
Speaker 2: listened to him, and we did. And we had the

971
00:51:43,036 --> 00:51:45,036
Speaker 2: cream of the crop of the LA session players on

972
00:51:45,676 --> 00:51:47,516
Speaker 2: the Silver album, and the bigger than both of us.

973
00:51:47,956 --> 00:51:49,916
Speaker 2: And it was amazing to be in the studio with

974
00:51:49,996 --> 00:51:52,756
Speaker 2: these great you know, Jeff Bercuero, Lea Scalar, we had

975
00:51:52,836 --> 00:51:55,956
Speaker 2: them all, I mean, every Jim Gordon, you know, all

976
00:51:56,036 --> 00:52:01,876
Speaker 2: these amazing musicians and Sarah Smile and Rich Girl and

977
00:52:01,956 --> 00:52:04,876
Speaker 2: that they came from those sessions, and so it was great.

978
00:52:05,116 --> 00:52:06,876
Speaker 2: It was really great to do that. But at the

979
00:52:06,916 --> 00:52:10,316
Speaker 2: same time, I think what it was pointing at was

980
00:52:10,796 --> 00:52:13,356
Speaker 2: that we needed to really take control of our own

981
00:52:13,436 --> 00:52:18,396
Speaker 2: music and get out of that paradigm where the artist's

982
00:52:18,436 --> 00:52:21,156
Speaker 2: over here and the record company appoints a producer and

983
00:52:21,236 --> 00:52:24,436
Speaker 2: the producers responsible for the artists. It was an old,

984
00:52:24,676 --> 00:52:29,276
Speaker 2: an old fashioned, you know, paradigm. And so by time,

985
00:52:29,396 --> 00:52:31,036
Speaker 2: you know, we were working with David Foster in the

986
00:52:31,076 --> 00:52:35,596
Speaker 2: late seventies, right, And I remember one session we were

987
00:52:35,636 --> 00:52:38,116
Speaker 2: doing in the late seventies, David said, I don't know

988
00:52:38,196 --> 00:52:40,276
Speaker 2: what I'm doing here. You guys are making this record yourself.

989
00:52:40,316 --> 00:52:42,636
Speaker 2: And we're like, yeah, I guess we are. That's what

990
00:52:42,676 --> 00:52:45,236
Speaker 2: we're going to do. So and that led to the eighties,

991
00:52:45,276 --> 00:52:47,396
Speaker 2: and of course you know the commercial success.

992
00:52:47,636 --> 00:52:50,076
Speaker 1: Yeah, there a similarity between what was going on with

993
00:52:50,196 --> 00:52:52,916
Speaker 1: that sort of those studio guys here in LA in

994
00:52:52,956 --> 00:52:55,316
Speaker 1: the seventies, with the Nashville scene.

995
00:52:55,436 --> 00:52:58,036
Speaker 2: Yeah, well just in terms of quality, in terms of

996
00:52:58,276 --> 00:53:00,436
Speaker 2: the musicianship in quality, Yeah, they were at pros.

997
00:53:00,556 --> 00:53:02,316
Speaker 1: The number of they were just super.

998
00:53:02,556 --> 00:53:05,116
Speaker 2: They just came in and played, you know, and you know,

999
00:53:05,196 --> 00:53:08,396
Speaker 2: and it's not and it's not just the playing. It's

1000
00:53:08,436 --> 00:53:12,036
Speaker 2: not just the gil of the technique or they're playing.

1001
00:53:12,356 --> 00:53:16,676
Speaker 2: It's the way they listen. It's their equipment when you

1002
00:53:16,796 --> 00:53:19,076
Speaker 2: do a session in Nashville. You know, Vince Gill told

1003
00:53:19,156 --> 00:53:21,876
Speaker 2: me when I first moved there, he said, if you're

1004
00:53:21,876 --> 00:53:25,156
Speaker 2: going to be producing songs, you know, in Nashville, he says,

1005
00:53:25,476 --> 00:53:27,316
Speaker 2: he says, You've got to think of yourself as like

1006
00:53:27,396 --> 00:53:31,236
Speaker 2: a director of a movie. It's not who you choose.

1007
00:53:31,476 --> 00:53:33,476
Speaker 2: It's not the best guitar player to choose, or the

1008
00:53:33,516 --> 00:53:36,516
Speaker 2: best bass player or drummer, because they're all good. It's

1009
00:53:36,556 --> 00:53:41,116
Speaker 2: who's the exact right player for that moment, for that song,

1010
00:53:41,836 --> 00:53:44,996
Speaker 2: to serve that song. And it takes time to learn

1011
00:53:45,076 --> 00:53:48,556
Speaker 2: who they are and experience them and kind of pull

1012
00:53:48,636 --> 00:53:52,036
Speaker 2: together your rolodex, so to speak, you know, and yeah,

1013
00:53:52,036 --> 00:53:53,876
Speaker 2: and that's what you do. You just you know, and

1014
00:53:53,916 --> 00:53:56,116
Speaker 2: now I can handpick the you know, if I need

1015
00:53:56,156 --> 00:53:59,276
Speaker 2: a pedal steel player there's two guys that I'm always

1016
00:53:59,316 --> 00:54:01,316
Speaker 2: going to go to and depends on which which ones

1017
00:54:01,396 --> 00:54:04,676
Speaker 2: available and which one's right and keyboards and drums and

1018
00:54:04,756 --> 00:54:05,196
Speaker 2: it's all.

1019
00:54:05,156 --> 00:54:07,316
Speaker 1: This, you know, And it's almost a crazy way to

1020
00:54:07,356 --> 00:54:07,716
Speaker 1: work there.

1021
00:54:07,836 --> 00:54:10,796
Speaker 2: You could craft and craft the music you want to

1022
00:54:10,836 --> 00:54:13,516
Speaker 2: make and know that they're going to deliver it for you. Wow,

1023
00:54:13,916 --> 00:54:15,916
Speaker 2: you know, and they have all the guitars and the

1024
00:54:16,156 --> 00:54:19,076
Speaker 2: pedal boards and the sounds and you know, and and

1025
00:54:20,036 --> 00:54:24,316
Speaker 2: they're there there. It's a real pleasure to walk into

1026
00:54:24,396 --> 00:54:27,356
Speaker 2: a room and just have the support knowing that these

1027
00:54:27,396 --> 00:54:29,356
Speaker 2: guys are going to deliver. Yeah.

1028
00:54:29,476 --> 00:54:30,596
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's a toy you on. Now

1029
00:54:30,716 --> 00:54:33,636
Speaker 1: you do do a tour where it's you and three Yeah,

1030
00:54:33,676 --> 00:54:36,716
Speaker 1: acoustic tour an acoustic quartet, which I've been doing for

1031
00:54:36,756 --> 00:54:38,316
Speaker 1: the last two and a half years. Is that what

1032
00:54:38,356 --> 00:54:40,476
Speaker 1: you're doing tomorrow at the now it's a full electric band.

1033
00:54:41,436 --> 00:54:42,596
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're kicking ass tomorrow.

1034
00:54:42,836 --> 00:54:43,236
Speaker 1: Can't wait?

1035
00:54:44,116 --> 00:54:44,396
Speaker 3: What what?

1036
00:54:44,636 --> 00:54:46,716
Speaker 1: What tunes do you do with the acoustic quartet?

1037
00:54:47,196 --> 00:54:51,356
Speaker 2: Well through Sanitary and Brownie McGee to also all kinds

1038
00:54:51,356 --> 00:54:54,556
Speaker 2: of stuff I do, you know, I do some folky stuff.

1039
00:54:54,556 --> 00:54:56,356
Speaker 2: I do a John Prime song, you know, I mean

1040
00:54:56,836 --> 00:55:00,636
Speaker 2: just like it's it's a much more loose and it's

1041
00:55:00,716 --> 00:55:04,356
Speaker 2: much more it's much more a storyteller show where I

1042
00:55:04,436 --> 00:55:07,156
Speaker 2: tell these really long involved stories about I do some

1043
00:55:07,156 --> 00:55:09,676
Speaker 2: Mississippi John Hurd, I do some doc wats. So yeah,

1044
00:55:09,716 --> 00:55:11,396
Speaker 2: it's a much more laid back. I'm sitting down. I

1045
00:55:11,476 --> 00:55:15,236
Speaker 2: got an acoustic guitar, I got a cello, pedal, steel percussion,

1046
00:55:15,876 --> 00:55:18,796
Speaker 2: and then it was time to put the acoustic away,

1047
00:55:18,956 --> 00:55:21,796
Speaker 2: grab my strat, plug it into an amp and crank

1048
00:55:21,876 --> 00:55:23,716
Speaker 2: it up a little bit. So yeah, this new band

1049
00:55:23,836 --> 00:55:25,836
Speaker 2: is much more of a kind of R and B

1050
00:55:26,636 --> 00:55:27,116
Speaker 2: soul band.

1051
00:55:27,276 --> 00:55:29,276
Speaker 1: Any of the same guys are totally.

1052
00:55:29,076 --> 00:55:29,716
Speaker 2: Only the drummer.

1053
00:55:29,796 --> 00:55:30,316
Speaker 1: That's awesome.

1054
00:55:30,356 --> 00:55:30,516
Speaker 7: Man.

1055
00:55:30,556 --> 00:55:32,556
Speaker 2: We've only done about five shows, six shows.

1056
00:55:32,836 --> 00:55:37,956
Speaker 1: That's that's I mean the experience, the experience you have

1057
00:55:38,796 --> 00:55:41,356
Speaker 1: like over the years. Play like I imagine when you

1058
00:55:41,436 --> 00:55:43,676
Speaker 1: go to play like a troubador now, it's like it's

1059
00:55:43,716 --> 00:55:44,876
Speaker 1: got to be so much fun.

1060
00:55:44,756 --> 00:55:47,756
Speaker 2: To I love playing small venues. I love playing small venues.

1061
00:55:47,796 --> 00:55:50,636
Speaker 2: It's it's musical, it's it's the people are right there,

1062
00:55:50,756 --> 00:55:54,076
Speaker 2: the energy's there, you know. Uh yeah, I mean I've

1063
00:55:54,236 --> 00:55:57,756
Speaker 2: really especially on the acoustic tour, it's playing small theaters

1064
00:55:57,916 --> 00:56:00,716
Speaker 2: was the sweet spot because it's a you know, people

1065
00:56:00,716 --> 00:56:03,196
Speaker 2: are sitting, they're coming, they're sitting to listen to stories

1066
00:56:03,236 --> 00:56:05,476
Speaker 2: and they want to be comfortable. And the sound is

1067
00:56:05,516 --> 00:56:07,716
Speaker 2: great because it's a theater, it's made for music. I

1068
00:56:07,876 --> 00:56:10,156
Speaker 2: really don't like playing a reiness and things like that.

1069
00:56:10,916 --> 00:56:15,516
Speaker 2: It just feels disjointed and feel removed from the crowd

1070
00:56:15,676 --> 00:56:19,996
Speaker 2: and it feels more like a spectacle where it's not

1071
00:56:20,116 --> 00:56:20,876
Speaker 2: as musical.

1072
00:56:21,116 --> 00:56:25,596
Speaker 1: Man, well, are you open to ending with another tune?

1073
00:56:25,876 --> 00:56:28,516
Speaker 1: I could do a push in a rock Yeah, great

1074
00:56:28,716 --> 00:56:29,356
Speaker 1: the new version.

1075
00:56:29,676 --> 00:56:32,476
Speaker 2: Yeah, but damn, I wish I could sing better. I'm

1076
00:56:32,676 --> 00:56:35,396
Speaker 2: I'm really kind of this coldest bother me.

1077
00:56:35,516 --> 00:57:11,556
Speaker 4: But keep push. Can't have a brother. Kenyon laying today

1078
00:57:12,316 --> 00:57:16,596
Speaker 4: feels out of murding. Ken You understink it because he

1079
00:57:16,716 --> 00:57:20,196
Speaker 4: keep his mouth pride when I had out of here

1080
00:57:20,516 --> 00:57:22,836
Speaker 4: lie everything alive.

1081
00:57:22,996 --> 00:57:26,076
Speaker 12: Something I get going through back with the good made

1082
00:57:26,196 --> 00:57:29,156
Speaker 12: some mistakes, I mean, the understand.

1083
00:57:29,916 --> 00:57:32,876
Speaker 2: N't down trying to turn her and bids to get

1084
00:57:33,036 --> 00:57:34,476
Speaker 2: back onside.

1085
00:57:34,036 --> 00:57:39,236
Speaker 4: And rykeep borrowing hard. Shugar ship should do like bole

1086
00:57:39,356 --> 00:57:41,276
Speaker 4: Kid when.

1087
00:57:41,156 --> 00:57:45,996
Speaker 5: It rolls back down this google with it, Try Google

1088
00:57:46,076 --> 00:57:56,116
Speaker 5: with a puson us didn't nobody when he looks back down,

1089
00:57:56,676 --> 00:58:04,276
Speaker 5: google with it and keep your head held high.

1090
00:58:04,556 --> 00:58:06,036
Speaker 1: I keep trying and trying.

1091
00:58:06,436 --> 00:58:09,836
Speaker 4: Keep your eyes on the price on the rocks.

1092
00:58:09,876 --> 00:58:14,956
Speaker 5: On got holy pet bet you keep on something drip

1093
00:58:15,036 --> 00:58:17,276
Speaker 5: of water covering the rook.

1094
00:58:17,356 --> 00:58:18,236
Speaker 4: Gainst rather.

1095
00:58:20,436 --> 00:58:23,116
Speaker 1: Light that you hard, but she keeps that in time.

1096
00:58:24,276 --> 00:58:28,956
Speaker 4: Then hit him. Try to help the brother jat to it.

1097
00:58:32,116 --> 00:58:49,356
Speaker 14: Shut put it rock with the goblet there, do you have.

1098
00:58:49,476 --> 00:58:54,396
Speaker 4: A you got gooble that the problem the couple there,

1099
00:58:58,156 --> 00:59:04,956
Speaker 4: something that's coming up, sons couple who don't happen. If

1100
00:59:05,036 --> 00:59:08,796
Speaker 4: I keep on pushing it, I can't turn this whole

1101
00:59:08,836 --> 00:59:19,076
Speaker 4: thing stepinite, two steps to hide. If I just face

1102
00:59:19,236 --> 00:59:19,956
Speaker 4: every day.

1103
00:59:20,876 --> 00:59:23,356
Speaker 2: I get back on my feet in time.

1104
00:59:24,076 --> 00:59:46,596
Speaker 15: Id su supers pas you on the rock, but you

1105
00:59:46,796 --> 00:59:52,876
Speaker 15: have a figure that lead.

1106
00:59:55,436 --> 00:59:55,796
Speaker 1: Keep on.

1107
00:59:58,116 --> 00:59:58,476
Speaker 7: A rock.

1108
01:00:01,316 --> 01:00:05,716
Speaker 1: Don't you ever give up? Maybe just.

1109
01:00:07,836 --> 01:00:08,996
Speaker 3: The baby.

1110
01:00:14,356 --> 01:00:26,836
Speaker 1: Said, baby baby is that's sweet man. When you hit that,

1111
01:00:27,916 --> 01:00:30,636
Speaker 1: keep on pushing in that falsetto. I remember that's my

1112
01:00:30,716 --> 01:00:32,636
Speaker 1: Curtis Mayfield. I was gonna say, I remember you and

1113
01:00:32,676 --> 01:00:34,516
Speaker 1: you do a version of Gypsy Woman. To do it

1114
01:00:34,596 --> 01:00:36,236
Speaker 1: live my one of my favorite songs.

1115
01:00:36,356 --> 01:00:46,316
Speaker 3: So cool, Yeah, loan there through the Cabravan down the

1116
01:00:46,716 --> 01:00:53,956
Speaker 3: cab fire, love liking one man in Mo shut.

1117
01:00:55,636 --> 01:00:59,076
Speaker 4: Stops a knight, right.

1118
01:01:01,596 --> 01:01:02,396
Speaker 12: That girl?

1119
01:01:02,996 --> 01:01:16,036
Speaker 8: Can it?

1120
01:01:19,676 --> 01:01:21,876
Speaker 1: Did you ever get to meet Curtis or impressions or anything?

1121
01:01:22,516 --> 01:01:22,636
Speaker 3: Well?

1122
01:01:22,716 --> 01:01:23,956
Speaker 2: I was a huge fan though.

1123
01:01:23,956 --> 01:01:26,236
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, did you ever see him or anything? Yeah

1124
01:01:26,316 --> 01:01:26,596
Speaker 1: you did.

1125
01:01:26,756 --> 01:01:29,196
Speaker 2: I saw him live at the Uptown Theater in Philadelphia,

1126
01:01:29,676 --> 01:01:30,556
Speaker 2: solo gigs.

1127
01:01:31,196 --> 01:01:35,196
Speaker 1: With the impressions. The impressions. Oh man, that's amazing, so good,

1128
01:01:35,636 --> 01:01:38,116
Speaker 1: one of the best. And man, thank you so much,

1129
01:01:38,316 --> 01:01:38,836
Speaker 1: so great that.

1130
01:01:38,916 --> 01:01:40,116
Speaker 2: It was a great interview. I appreciate it.

1131
01:01:40,236 --> 01:01:40,996
Speaker 1: No, thank you.

1132
01:01:41,116 --> 01:01:42,596
Speaker 2: Just to really go some places.

1133
01:01:42,756 --> 01:01:43,876
Speaker 1: Thank you really looking forward to this.

1134
01:01:43,956 --> 01:01:45,756
Speaker 2: Thanks for having me right and I'm sorry I wasn't

1135
01:01:45,756 --> 01:01:48,076
Speaker 2: at my best because I'm honestly, I just feel like

1136
01:01:48,116 --> 01:01:49,196
Speaker 2: I can't sing very well.

1137
01:01:49,236 --> 01:01:51,756
Speaker 1: But no, we're two guys not at our best right now.

1138
01:01:51,956 --> 01:01:53,036
Speaker 4: Okay, we did it.

1139
01:01:53,356 --> 01:01:54,156
Speaker 1: Thank you so much.

1140
01:01:54,236 --> 01:01:57,316
Speaker 2: The secret. Don't tell anybody. See if we fooled him again?

1141
01:01:57,396 --> 01:01:57,476
Speaker 7: Right?

1142
01:01:57,556 --> 01:02:00,116
Speaker 1: We think we did. I think we did. That was

1143
01:02:00,156 --> 01:02:05,356
Speaker 1: a real real pleasure. Man. Don't miss the episode description,

1144
01:02:05,476 --> 01:02:07,516
Speaker 1: where you'll find a playlist of our favorite John Oaks

1145
01:02:07,596 --> 01:02:11,716
Speaker 1: songs plus his new and remember subscribe to YouTube dot

1146
01:02:11,796 --> 01:02:15,276
Speaker 1: com slash Broken Record podcast for all of our video interviews,

1147
01:02:15,676 --> 01:02:17,636
Speaker 1: and be sure to follow us on Instagram at the

1148
01:02:17,716 --> 01:02:20,236
Speaker 1: Broken Record Pop. You can follow us on Twitter at

1149
01:02:20,316 --> 01:02:23,716
Speaker 1: broken Record. Broken Record is produced and edited by Leah Rose,

1150
01:02:23,756 --> 01:02:26,356
Speaker 1: with marketing and help from Eric Sandler and Jordan McMillan.

1151
01:02:26,476 --> 01:02:29,916
Speaker 1: Our engineer is Ben Tomaday. Broken Record is a production

1152
01:02:30,036 --> 01:02:32,676
Speaker 1: of Pushkin Industries. If you love this show and others

1153
01:02:32,716 --> 01:02:36,356
Speaker 1: from Pushkin, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is

1154
01:02:36,356 --> 01:02:39,276
Speaker 1: a podcast subscription that offers bonus content and ad free

1155
01:02:39,356 --> 01:02:41,916
Speaker 1: listening for four ninety nine a month. Look for Pushkin

1156
01:02:41,956 --> 01:02:45,316
Speaker 1: Plus on Apple podcast subscriptions, and if you like this show,

1157
01:02:45,436 --> 01:02:47,396
Speaker 1: please remember to share, rate, and review us on your

1158
01:02:47,436 --> 01:02:50,996
Speaker 1: podcast app. Our theme music's by Kenny Beeats. I'm justin Richmond.