WEBVTT - Alex Hodges 0:00:08.600 --> 0:00:12.320 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast. 0:00:12.920 --> 0:00:15.680 My guest today is a man who's done it all, 0:00:16.000 --> 0:00:22.240 agent manager presently a promoter as CEO of meter Lander Concerts, 0:00:22.280 --> 0:00:26.240 Alex Hodges. Thank you, Bob, glad to be here. Okay, 0:00:26.280 --> 0:00:28.800 So what's the status of the concert business today? It's 0:00:28.960 --> 0:00:32.520 it's robust. You always gotta look over your shoulder though 0:00:32.600 --> 0:00:34.960 you never know when the economy or something else is 0:00:35.000 --> 0:00:38.640 gonna fight you. But it's really strong right now. What 0:00:38.680 --> 0:00:42.400 do you think accounts for that? I think a strong economy. 0:00:42.440 --> 0:00:44.640 I think that people have a jingle in their pocket, 0:00:44.720 --> 0:00:48.640 or that with job they'll spend money on entertainment. Okay. 0:00:48.880 --> 0:00:52.520 That leads to the point where sometimes shows are put 0:00:52.600 --> 0:00:56.520 on for put up for sale like over a year before. 0:00:57.280 --> 0:00:59.960 Is that basically an economic thing? Hey, let's get the 0:01:00.040 --> 0:01:03.240 money while they have it or what. It's a good question. 0:01:03.760 --> 0:01:06.640 I think part of it is beat the competition, get 0:01:06.680 --> 0:01:11.520 on sale early, uh, take money out of the market, um, 0:01:11.640 --> 0:01:15.959 and all the other reasons. You know you're controlling somebody's money. 0:01:16.120 --> 0:01:18.679 You got it in the bank. Okay. For those who 0:01:18.680 --> 0:01:22.240 are unfamiliar, tell us more about the purview of needle 0:01:22.319 --> 0:01:26.960 Leander Concerts for needle Lander Concerts part of a family 0:01:27.400 --> 0:01:33.920 owned operation organization. UM. The needle Leander family started in 0:01:34.160 --> 0:01:39.960 uh Detroit in the theater business in the early nineteen hundreds. 0:01:40.040 --> 0:01:43.080 So it's family owned and over a hundred years old 0:01:43.840 --> 0:01:47.040 and not for sale. This is so there is a 0:01:47.080 --> 0:01:50.240 certain sense of stability. That's right. It's a good thing, 0:01:50.480 --> 0:01:56.000 unlike the rest of corporate America. UM. In the seventies, 0:01:56.120 --> 0:01:59.920 Jimmie needle Lander Sr. Just to be clear, they left 0:02:00.320 --> 0:02:03.360 the Midwest, and they're like the number one player on Broadway, right, 0:02:03.480 --> 0:02:06.200 don't they have the most theaters? Well, they may not 0:02:06.280 --> 0:02:08.360 have the most theaters, but I'll say the best and 0:02:08.400 --> 0:02:14.760 they have not so it's pretty robust. Um. Um. They 0:02:14.760 --> 0:02:18.600 have Broadway theaters in Chicago, London, New York, l A. 0:02:18.960 --> 0:02:25.280 And interest in San Francisco. Uh in booking arrangements for 0:02:25.360 --> 0:02:31.040 Broadway and other cities like Durham, North Carolina. Uh So 0:02:31.160 --> 0:02:36.440 the Broadway peace is the bigger family. And we say 0:02:36.480 --> 0:02:39.120 it's really the biggest Hamilton's please in the needle Leander Theater. 0:02:39.360 --> 0:02:45.239 Yes and many. Okay, we're going back to Jimmy in 0:02:45.280 --> 0:02:50.560 the seventies, so, uh, Jimmy Needle Lander and his brothers. 0:02:50.720 --> 0:02:57.800 There was Robert and Harry and UH and um um 0:02:57.960 --> 0:03:01.760 who else Joey and one other wasn't in the music 0:03:01.800 --> 0:03:07.560 business Freddie Anyway, Jimmy need Landers sr. Uh went into 0:03:08.440 --> 0:03:12.600 New York from from Detroit years ago to start and 0:03:12.680 --> 0:03:16.240 challenge the Broadway scene in the in the city. In 0:03:16.280 --> 0:03:20.320 the seventies, had an opportunity to work with Lost in 0:03:20.440 --> 0:03:26.560 Los Angeles with the city on reviving UH in recreating 0:03:27.240 --> 0:03:30.560 or you know, building up the Greek Theater in l A. 0:03:30.560 --> 0:03:35.600 Also had an opportunity to purchase the Pentageous Theater with 0:03:35.640 --> 0:03:39.120 a local partner. So all of a sudden it was 0:03:40.040 --> 0:03:42.800 do you want to go west? And I think Mr 0:03:42.880 --> 0:03:46.200 needle Lander's friends all said, don't do it, You'll be 0:03:46.440 --> 0:03:49.840 This's the stupidest thing, is terrible, But he'd done something 0:03:49.880 --> 0:03:53.960 stupid before and it worked out okay. In the process, 0:03:54.000 --> 0:03:58.640 they also built Amphitheaters, Popular Creek in Chicago, pin nob 0:03:58.720 --> 0:04:04.000 Music Theater and in Clarkston, Michigan, which is Detroit, Mariweather 0:04:04.040 --> 0:04:08.360 Post Pavilion, UH in Columbia, Maryland outside of Washington, d C. 0:04:08.680 --> 0:04:14.640 And between there in Baltimore and others and including Pacific 0:04:14.680 --> 0:04:19.640 Amphitheater in Los Angeles. So the outdoor music, contemporary music 0:04:19.800 --> 0:04:28.479 concert UM experience UM was really led by the Netherlander family. Really, 0:04:28.480 --> 0:04:30.160 they were the first ones who were doing it before 0:04:30.200 --> 0:04:34.640 it became a thing with Universal Conscience Center. Yes, UM. 0:04:35.200 --> 0:04:40.080 After they really had this equation dominated, a lot of 0:04:40.120 --> 0:04:44.000 people wanted to copy it. UM m C A Universal 0:04:44.120 --> 0:04:49.520 Concerts competed, Pace Music competed out of Texas, and so 0:04:49.600 --> 0:04:54.599 they became more UM. There's some historic venues of course, 0:04:55.760 --> 0:05:00.040 Red Rocks in Denver, Tanglewood in Massachusetts. Tanglewood, mass to 0:05:00.160 --> 0:05:05.159 choose it's UM UM Blossom Music Theater is pretty you know, 0:05:05.200 --> 0:05:08.520 it's been around a long time in Cleveland. Some of 0:05:08.560 --> 0:05:12.800 them then later came under m C A Universal Watch 0:05:13.160 --> 0:05:16.880 and some were Needle Ender. They really they really changed 0:05:16.960 --> 0:05:22.760 the model and everybody followed. Okay, so how long have 0:05:22.839 --> 0:05:25.200 you been working for need Leander. Well, I've worked for 0:05:25.240 --> 0:05:30.839 them twice and even work at this time. I came 0:05:30.880 --> 0:05:36.160 back to the company in April of two thousand and seven. Okay, 0:05:36.200 --> 0:05:39.760 so what are you concentrating on now? We're concentrating on 0:05:40.760 --> 0:05:45.400 more venues to book uh, working as a as an 0:05:45.400 --> 0:05:49.640 extension of the venue ownership and management. Sometimes we don't 0:05:49.640 --> 0:05:52.760 own it, we don't manage it. It could be municipally owned, 0:05:53.200 --> 0:05:56.840 it could be privately owned. Uh. And if we come 0:05:56.839 --> 0:06:00.080 in and make a dedicated emphasis on booking it with 0:06:00.240 --> 0:06:03.600 focus trying to you know, not just do an occasional 0:06:03.640 --> 0:06:06.480 one off, but really concentrate as an advocate for a 0:06:06.560 --> 0:06:09.559 venue in the market, we found out we can change 0:06:09.560 --> 0:06:13.760 the landscape. Give me an example. Uh, there's several and 0:06:13.920 --> 0:06:18.800 San Jose for example, it's a civic auditorium in San Jose. 0:06:19.120 --> 0:06:24.400 It was essentially abandoned for concerts. How many Uh what's capacity? 0:06:24.360 --> 0:06:26.880 Yea three thousand, so you can set it up a 0:06:26.880 --> 0:06:31.039 little under or slightly more. There's a balcony. It's a 0:06:31.080 --> 0:06:36.080 civic center from the thirties and it was in the 0:06:38.000 --> 0:06:43.080 in the seventies into the eighties. Bill Graham tried to 0:06:43.080 --> 0:06:48.799 do concerts there. Um. This the venue needed an uplift, 0:06:49.320 --> 0:06:55.400 needed a lot of uplift in anyway, the Bill Graham 0:06:55.480 --> 0:07:00.680 decided to not go back at a point and interestingly, 0:07:00.760 --> 0:07:02.480 a lot of the shows that he did there were 0:07:02.480 --> 0:07:06.960 booked by me and my agent career. Uh, so it 0:07:07.040 --> 0:07:10.200 was it was kind of a loss of an opportunity 0:07:10.240 --> 0:07:12.520 to play another date in the Bay Area when he 0:07:12.600 --> 0:07:18.000 quit doing the midsize with the smaller, smaller spaces UM. 0:07:18.160 --> 0:07:22.280 So fast forward all these years where it was essentially abandoned, 0:07:22.760 --> 0:07:27.400 used for a minor league basketball experiment for a little while, useful, 0:07:27.520 --> 0:07:35.280 some graduations, used for overflow for convention city convention UH business, 0:07:35.360 --> 0:07:42.040 but primarily UM just an extra room in the city, 0:07:42.080 --> 0:07:46.920 and the city recognized they needed to maybe consider renovating 0:07:47.680 --> 0:07:50.720 UH put together a budget, and one of the things 0:07:50.760 --> 0:07:54.200 when we were introduced to the venue in two thousand 0:07:54.280 --> 0:08:00.120 and eight, and probably because no one was interested them, 0:08:00.800 --> 0:08:04.440 the thing that caught my attention was was that the 0:08:04.480 --> 0:08:07.760 city had spent a million dollars on a boiler. And 0:08:07.800 --> 0:08:10.280 I'm going like, that's the last thing on my agenda, 0:08:10.520 --> 0:08:13.760 but it's maybe should be the first, because it represents 0:08:14.080 --> 0:08:18.360 a real commitment to the venue, you know, the underpinnings, 0:08:18.400 --> 0:08:21.720 the infrastructure to make it work. If they would do 0:08:21.840 --> 0:08:25.080 that that's not seen and not cosmetic, maybe they would 0:08:25.120 --> 0:08:28.680 do a good job with the other amenities that would 0:08:28.680 --> 0:08:31.760 make it a hospitable place for rock and roll bands. 0:08:32.400 --> 0:08:35.240 How much money, So ultimately was the city's money or 0:08:35.240 --> 0:08:39.120 need only enters, money, cities money. I did some uh 0:08:39.720 --> 0:08:45.600 consulting for free, also contributed to pay some consultants to 0:08:45.720 --> 0:08:51.600 help advise on certain specifics. And we started actually booking 0:08:52.360 --> 0:08:56.240 during some of the construction in two thousand and nine. 0:08:56.800 --> 0:09:01.200 And that was probably a little premature. Okay, you're the 0:09:01.240 --> 0:09:04.360 exclusive booker for the building. We were, and now we're 0:09:04.360 --> 0:09:09.079 the primary booker. But there's some other promoters, international promoters 0:09:09.080 --> 0:09:12.520 and specialty promoters that do some shows, so we do 0:09:12.880 --> 0:09:16.880 almost all. And how many shows this that we do, um, 0:09:17.400 --> 0:09:20.720 you know, fifty shows. Uh, there's twelve months a year. 0:09:21.360 --> 0:09:26.520 And uh, when when I spoke about turning a venue around, Uh, 0:09:26.600 --> 0:09:30.160 that takes the money, It takes some vision, it takes 0:09:30.160 --> 0:09:34.640 some uh staying power. When we did our first thirteen shows, 0:09:34.679 --> 0:09:38.240 we lost on twelve. Really, why do you think that 0:09:38.400 --> 0:09:44.920 was new unfamiliar or the familiarity content was not good? Actually, 0:09:45.000 --> 0:09:46.960 after we satned the deal, was the first time I 0:09:47.000 --> 0:09:52.560 read the Yelp reviews and they were terrible. You literally 0:09:52.559 --> 0:09:55.560 had to turn it around. Oh goodness. I trusted my 0:09:55.720 --> 0:09:59.880 vision though, and uh and Jimmy Nata Lander let me 0:10:00.200 --> 0:10:05.199 keep going, which was terrific. So now it's a robust, 0:10:05.280 --> 0:10:08.199 and we we were just doing a great job. You 0:10:08.240 --> 0:10:10.640 don't make money on every show, but losing on twelve 0:10:10.679 --> 0:10:13.520 by the thirteen was not good. So now we'll make 0:10:13.559 --> 0:10:18.280 money on you know, almost all. So other than showing 0:10:18.440 --> 0:10:21.600 that the building was new and booking good talent, what 0:10:21.640 --> 0:10:25.040 else did need to Leander do to improve the situation? 0:10:25.040 --> 0:10:28.360 What was need to leander special sauce, Well, we made 0:10:28.360 --> 0:10:33.000 a lot of recommendations on making the consumer like interested 0:10:33.360 --> 0:10:39.599 and and that included such important things as um um, 0:10:39.640 --> 0:10:42.559 you know, ah, outlets in the dressing room so they 0:10:42.600 --> 0:10:47.320 could tune a guitar, areas for the crew to work 0:10:48.280 --> 0:10:51.920 behind the staging area to star dressing rooms, not one, 0:10:52.800 --> 0:10:57.240 renovating the upstairs dressing rooms, and then outside in the hallways. 0:10:57.360 --> 0:11:00.280 We thought, what's gonna make this appealing? That in you, 0:11:00.600 --> 0:11:04.599 having been built in the thirties had a rich history, 0:11:04.720 --> 0:11:10.640 so we thought about um, big life size posters framed 0:11:10.880 --> 0:11:14.600 put on the walls. The memorialized the date that the 0:11:14.760 --> 0:11:17.680 stars have been there. And it's pretty interesting when you've 0:11:17.760 --> 0:11:22.199 realized that the who would played their Frank Sinatra played there, uh, 0:11:22.559 --> 0:11:26.960 Barbra Streischan had played there, so um um, you know 0:11:27.040 --> 0:11:32.520 Santana and UM, so many, so many others. But it's 0:11:32.559 --> 0:11:36.719 all a long time ago, from the thirties, forties, fifties, sixties, seventies, 0:11:36.880 --> 0:11:42.240 eighties and stopped. So we reincarnated the history, you know, 0:11:42.640 --> 0:11:47.760 with the slogan legends played here and and uh, big 0:11:47.840 --> 0:11:51.880 huge pictures. So all the fans come and they go wow. 0:11:52.440 --> 0:11:55.840 They stand in front of it and take each other's pictures, 0:11:55.880 --> 0:12:00.720 along with some historic great you know, artists rolling stones. 0:12:00.800 --> 0:12:03.800 They'll stand in front of that and take pictures, so 0:12:04.200 --> 0:12:11.400 that that liven the otherwise, you know, rather dull um, 0:12:11.440 --> 0:12:17.640 you know, concourse and what other buildings you book in um. 0:12:17.679 --> 0:12:21.320 Another story of of turning around is much more recent. 0:12:21.440 --> 0:12:24.680 In two thousand thirteen, a winery and pass of Robles 0:12:24.679 --> 0:12:30.720 built and opened a three thousand seats amphitheater um fixed 0:12:30.720 --> 0:12:34.960 seats two thousand, one thousand long and on the pit 0:12:35.160 --> 0:12:37.440 you can use it open pit or you can. In 0:12:37.480 --> 0:12:43.840 any case, it was we we were interested, but the 0:12:43.200 --> 0:12:47.520 the deal made did not provide, in my mind, an 0:12:47.520 --> 0:12:50.280 opportunity to make money. So someone else went in there 0:12:50.920 --> 0:12:53.240 and they lost a lot of money. Why did it not? 0:12:53.960 --> 0:12:57.199 Uh was it not going to be profitable? Well, first 0:12:57.200 --> 0:13:01.360 of all, it's new. Second, it's local. Asian is Pastor Robots. 0:13:01.880 --> 0:13:04.959 That's not a big population, so you have to go 0:13:05.120 --> 0:13:07.880 for those people aunt familiar. What's the closest big city 0:13:07.880 --> 0:13:12.120 to the closest small big city is Sant Louis Obispo. 0:13:13.160 --> 0:13:16.080 And how far is it from San Louis Bispo? You know, 0:13:16.240 --> 0:13:21.040 call it fifteen miles, but hundred and four miles to Bakersfield, 0:13:21.080 --> 0:13:24.360 a hundred and four miles to Fresno. So you've got 0:13:24.400 --> 0:13:28.640 this gigantics center central part of the state, creating a 0:13:28.880 --> 0:13:32.040 kind of what I call a triangle almost to get 0:13:32.080 --> 0:13:36.079 people to come. And anything new then requires like you 0:13:36.160 --> 0:13:40.200 gotta book it. Agents have to you know, accept the vision, 0:13:40.800 --> 0:13:43.000 take a risk. You have to, we have to pay 0:13:43.080 --> 0:13:46.800 for it, so it's all at our dollar risk. Then 0:13:47.600 --> 0:13:51.080 then the fans don't know of it because it's new. 0:13:52.040 --> 0:13:53.720 Uh So in this case, it was good to be 0:13:53.800 --> 0:13:58.000 sucking in and we just did a great job. Also, 0:13:58.480 --> 0:14:01.800 it took time. So last year twenty nineteen was the 0:14:01.840 --> 0:14:08.439 first really robust, profitable, you know, uh bottom line profitable 0:14:08.920 --> 0:14:13.520 year in uh in in Pastor Robels at Vena roeblassed 0:14:13.559 --> 0:14:18.480 Amphitheater is fantastic venue, and now we we think we're there, 0:14:19.120 --> 0:14:22.800 recognition from the fans, recognition from agents and managers and 0:14:22.920 --> 0:14:29.680 artists and how many shows did you do there last year? Okay, now, uh, 0:14:29.800 --> 0:14:32.160 let's talk about the elephant in the room. Nider Lander 0:14:32.320 --> 0:14:35.360 is big, but also there's Live Nation in a G. 0:14:36.320 --> 0:14:39.600 How does need a leader fit in the landscape. Well, 0:14:39.640 --> 0:14:46.520 you're talking about a very big elephant. Maybe too, there 0:14:46.560 --> 0:14:50.040 is a couple of big elephants, and and uh it's interesting, 0:14:50.240 --> 0:14:56.840 um uh those younger people in the industry who haven't 0:14:56.880 --> 0:15:00.520 really experienced the days of the independent promoter in almost 0:15:00.560 --> 0:15:05.200 every major city. In smaller cities, um, I really don't 0:15:05.280 --> 0:15:09.240 know how the landscape has changed. So a young agent 0:15:09.320 --> 0:15:14.440 will go, wow, I just got fifty tour offer from 0:15:14.680 --> 0:15:19.720 Live Nation. That's uh, that's hard to compete with. And 0:15:19.720 --> 0:15:25.040 and so we're trying to identifying markets and venues we 0:15:25.080 --> 0:15:28.840 can work in and make the experience unique and then 0:15:29.000 --> 0:15:33.000 just not lose the opportunities to the Live Nation or 0:15:33.040 --> 0:15:35.920 the a G national tour. And there's a couple of 0:15:35.960 --> 0:15:40.080 other things that have made it difficult, like the casino 0:15:40.200 --> 0:15:43.320 business is unique and they can afford to pay artists 0:15:43.320 --> 0:15:46.880 on another type of P and L than just looking 0:15:46.920 --> 0:15:54.360 at ticket sales and then um um um there's fairs. 0:15:54.520 --> 0:15:57.760 That's that's a unique animal. Not really competitive day to 0:15:57.840 --> 0:16:02.600 day to what we do. Uh. So it's it's difficult. 0:16:03.280 --> 0:16:10.160 I recommend to young agents stay an agent. Okay, since 0:16:10.160 --> 0:16:13.200 you've done anything. You were born where I was born 0:16:13.200 --> 0:16:17.680 in Decatur, Georgia in Emery hospital. What what was like 0:16:17.840 --> 0:16:20.640 living in Georgia back then? Was it as southern as 0:16:20.720 --> 0:16:23.120 we felt up north or what was going on? Of 0:16:23.160 --> 0:16:27.200 course not? Uh, you know, major cities of major cities 0:16:27.280 --> 0:16:30.880 with variety of population. Know why was deketor de Keta? 0:16:30.960 --> 0:16:33.920 What was there that drove the Decatur. That's a good 0:16:34.000 --> 0:16:37.800 question because I think, Uh, for years, I used to 0:16:37.840 --> 0:16:41.080 just answer the question, where I'm from is Atlanta? So 0:16:41.160 --> 0:16:45.400 Decatur is um, sort of a bedroom community of Atlanta, 0:16:45.480 --> 0:16:48.160 but it was it was a county seat of De 0:16:48.240 --> 0:16:52.120 Cabb County. So good schools, a lot of good schools, 0:16:52.600 --> 0:16:59.200 amazing um high school football team, um and um. You know, 0:16:59.280 --> 0:17:02.400 so you would ache to trolley or the bus or 0:17:02.400 --> 0:17:07.080 an automobile to Atlanta for major shopping trips. But the 0:17:07.119 --> 0:17:11.800 Decatur was very significantly important. And then years and years 0:17:11.840 --> 0:17:14.720 and years ago, you know, train came through and stopped 0:17:14.720 --> 0:17:16.760 and so forth. So it was it was a bustling, 0:17:17.280 --> 0:17:22.679 bustling uh uh community. And so what'd your father do 0:17:22.760 --> 0:17:28.160 for a living? My father, um was an executive at 0:17:28.160 --> 0:17:32.480 a company called Pure Oil Company, and I think later 0:17:32.520 --> 0:17:35.560 a lot of their stations in the Southeast and other 0:17:35.600 --> 0:17:39.480 places gave way to Golf Oil. But he had been 0:17:40.200 --> 0:17:44.679 he had It's interesting he had been uh uh, you know, 0:17:44.720 --> 0:17:51.680 like oil and petroleum salesperson before the automobiles really proliferated, 0:17:51.720 --> 0:17:55.640 and before there was a service station on every other corner. 0:17:56.480 --> 0:18:04.359 Uh So when the world changed for automobiles, he was 0:18:04.400 --> 0:18:07.840 in charge of the entire Southeast on a smaller company 0:18:07.880 --> 0:18:11.119 called Wofford Oil, and they picked up a contract for 0:18:11.200 --> 0:18:15.960 distribution of gas. And my father actually visited small towns 0:18:16.480 --> 0:18:21.200 knocking on doors, meeting people at the barbershop, uh and saying, 0:18:21.520 --> 0:18:24.879 you need a service station in your town. And he 0:18:24.960 --> 0:18:27.679 did that all over the Southeast. So he was pretty 0:18:27.800 --> 0:18:31.840 uh it was pretty interesting too to know that he 0:18:32.680 --> 0:18:34.800 was a part of that, you know, before it was 0:18:34.840 --> 0:18:38.360 at anything. Well, it's all so fascinating. Living in Los Angeles, 0:18:38.560 --> 0:18:42.200 gas stations keep disappearing. I know now when you want 0:18:42.200 --> 0:18:44.000 to get gas, you gotta think about where you're going. 0:18:44.440 --> 0:18:46.560 There used to be a station on every corner. How 0:18:46.560 --> 0:18:51.760 many kids in the family. I'm the baby of four brothers. Okay, 0:18:52.240 --> 0:18:54.760 and the other three brothers, what are they up to? 0:18:55.119 --> 0:19:03.520 So uh listen, I'm the baby, um four brothers. Um, 0:19:03.600 --> 0:19:06.240 I'm enough junior that I got the benefit of having 0:19:06.880 --> 0:19:11.040 a four older brothers. How what was the gap between 0:19:11.040 --> 0:19:13.879 my ma and my closest brother. He's eleven years older 0:19:14.840 --> 0:19:17.320 and he's still kicking. And how about your old the 0:19:17.400 --> 0:19:25.639 oldest brother, Um turned January the third, and he's still kicking. 0:19:25.800 --> 0:19:29.400 How has he got all his marbles? He does remarkably 0:19:29.440 --> 0:19:32.360 because my girlfriends marbles. I was talking to my mother 0:19:32.359 --> 0:19:36.440 earlier than she's She knows who I am. But it's, 0:19:36.520 --> 0:19:39.399 you know, getting got a bad it's it's it's you know, 0:19:39.440 --> 0:19:41.840 to see the aging. You know, we have a mother 0:19:41.880 --> 0:19:44.439 in law who's going through some issues. And but my 0:19:44.520 --> 0:19:49.320 brothers did well. My old my second oldest brother did 0:19:49.440 --> 0:19:54.920 nine and he was exhausted, really after being a caregiver 0:19:55.080 --> 0:19:59.280 for his wife who had Alzheimer's. That's a tough one. 0:19:59.400 --> 0:20:03.199 It's a long goodbye. And your other brother one was 0:20:03.240 --> 0:20:06.399 a doctor. He was in the navy, you know, during 0:20:06.440 --> 0:20:11.280 the World War Two. He was in the peace building 0:20:11.320 --> 0:20:15.000 part of the navy. Uh as a Navy doctor stationed 0:20:15.040 --> 0:20:20.560 in Japan. After the war was over, and he moved 0:20:20.600 --> 0:20:25.920 around a lot. Uh then he settled in North Georgia, 0:20:26.680 --> 0:20:30.840 uh as a you know, a country or a mountain doctor. 0:20:31.000 --> 0:20:33.879 Now are you close with your brothers and real close? Okay, 0:20:33.880 --> 0:20:35.800 what lessons did you learn from them? I don't have 0:20:35.840 --> 0:20:38.960 any brothers, so being the youngest at having three older 0:20:39.000 --> 0:20:43.000 brothers interesting. I had to speak at the brother who died. 0:20:43.040 --> 0:20:45.800 I had to speak at his service, and at first 0:20:45.840 --> 0:20:48.600 I couldn't think of a story. I mean, my mind 0:20:48.640 --> 0:20:53.320 went blank. And uh, you know, so I wrote notes 0:20:53.400 --> 0:20:56.240 on three by five cards in my practice in front 0:20:56.240 --> 0:20:58.560 of my wife, and she said, very nice, but anybody 0:20:58.560 --> 0:21:02.440 could say those generality these and and she was right. 0:21:02.560 --> 0:21:05.240 She said, they need people need to hear some stories 0:21:05.280 --> 0:21:09.879 that they have forgotten or never heard. And so um 0:21:09.920 --> 0:21:12.440 I did it. I found found a way and it 0:21:12.480 --> 0:21:17.919 triggered something that I started jotting down any story that 0:21:18.000 --> 0:21:20.639 I had heard from the older brothers. And one of 0:21:20.680 --> 0:21:23.840 the things that my brothers carried over from my father 0:21:23.880 --> 0:21:26.000 and my mother is when you're gonna do something, do 0:21:26.080 --> 0:21:29.840 it right. Just do it right. That's the big message. 0:21:30.280 --> 0:21:32.879 Don't shortcut it. Okay, So what kind of kid are you? 0:21:32.920 --> 0:21:37.040 In school? Popular? Reasonably? I was a president of the 0:21:37.040 --> 0:21:42.040 Hot Rods Club. What was that like? Well, you know, 0:21:42.240 --> 0:21:46.640 we uh we saw these uh thirty nine Ford coups 0:21:46.680 --> 0:21:49.479 and we saw these and they had passed on and 0:21:49.520 --> 0:21:54.760 we saw that people some race car guys. We're putting uh, 0:21:54.800 --> 0:21:58.879 you know, chevallet motors in them, and uh, you know, 0:21:59.080 --> 0:22:01.360 it was just kind of a cool thing. I think 0:22:01.440 --> 0:22:04.359 drag racing had its moment at in in the in 0:22:04.400 --> 0:22:09.560 the fifties, right in in early sixties maybe, so maybe 0:22:09.600 --> 0:22:12.080 my parents kind of backed and gave us a garage 0:22:12.119 --> 0:22:14.840 to work in. And I created at school a hot 0:22:14.920 --> 0:22:20.040 rock club called the Idlers, and we had we took minutes, 0:22:20.119 --> 0:22:24.080 we had rules, we had meetings and votes and all 0:22:24.160 --> 0:22:27.280 kinds of stuff. And it was part of some of 0:22:27.280 --> 0:22:30.240 the other experiences in school from my brothers and hearing 0:22:30.280 --> 0:22:33.560 that they were in in uh you know, different classes 0:22:33.600 --> 0:22:36.000 and clubs and so forth. So it's just a matter 0:22:36.040 --> 0:22:40.920 of participation. And uh, I did build a hot rod. Okay, 0:22:40.960 --> 0:22:43.560 tell me about your hot right. I belt it was uh, 0:22:43.840 --> 0:22:51.240 no fenders, uh thirty four ford uh uh convertible H 0:22:51.440 --> 0:22:53.960 might have been a Cooper originally, but no top when 0:22:54.000 --> 0:22:57.520 I got it, and I put in a two eighty 0:22:57.560 --> 0:23:03.159 three uh chevallet V eight engine to four barrel carburetors, 0:23:03.520 --> 0:23:06.639 and I got it going where it was really drivable 0:23:06.880 --> 0:23:10.600 and uh and and really pretty awesome and time around 0:23:10.600 --> 0:23:14.000 out I went to college and uh so I went 0:23:14.040 --> 0:23:16.920 to Mercery University. But what happened to the well, that's 0:23:17.119 --> 0:23:19.800 that's part of it. What a parents do when kids 0:23:19.800 --> 0:23:23.879 go to they sell something. So my hot rod was 0:23:23.920 --> 0:23:26.760 put up for sale by my father, and a guy 0:23:26.880 --> 0:23:30.000 came and got it. Our father wanted his garage back, 0:23:30.040 --> 0:23:35.199 all right, I don't blame him. Um so, uh. The 0:23:35.320 --> 0:23:39.960 fellow that bought it raced it and had race it. 0:23:40.000 --> 0:23:42.880 He raced it and he brought to the house right 0:23:42.960 --> 0:23:46.240 the door bell knocked on the door, met my father 0:23:46.560 --> 0:23:49.439 and said your son might be happy to know, and 0:23:49.480 --> 0:23:54.200 showed him a trophield winning a quarter track, you know. Right, 0:23:54.320 --> 0:23:56.440 so that was cool. I just kind of felt good. 0:23:56.960 --> 0:23:59.440 So you can do cars are all computer righted now? 0:23:59.640 --> 0:24:02.359 But only speaking. You're completely familiar with how cars are. 0:24:02.520 --> 0:24:08.879 That's why I have in truck was a Mustang engine 0:24:08.880 --> 0:24:11.439 in it. How did you put the engine in? Now? Okay? 0:24:11.440 --> 0:24:14.240 How often do you drive that? Once a week? Really? 0:24:14.800 --> 0:24:17.760 What's that like? This is cool? You know, it looks, 0:24:17.840 --> 0:24:21.560 it looks it's shiny, and it's black and it you know, 0:24:22.520 --> 0:24:26.240 it looks pretty interesting. Cool and the big big white 0:24:26.240 --> 0:24:29.720 walls and uh, nobody thinks that they think they don't 0:24:29.720 --> 0:24:32.040 want to be behind me because I'll be real slow 0:24:33.119 --> 0:24:36.080 and then I'm in front of everybody. And then but 0:24:36.320 --> 0:24:38.439 that has pneumatic breaks. You have to stand on the 0:24:38.480 --> 0:24:42.760 brakes right to stop it. Yesterday, We're pretty good, okay, 0:24:42.880 --> 0:24:47.880 and you can down down shift. How many years? Three? Okay? 0:24:47.960 --> 0:24:52.080 So Mercer College? What's that like? Well, Mercer University and 0:24:52.240 --> 0:24:56.240 how I ended up deciding to go. There was one 0:24:56.280 --> 0:24:58.680 brother went to Emory, one brother went to the University 0:24:58.680 --> 0:25:01.720 of Georgia, one brother went to Georgia Tech. And in 0:25:01.880 --> 0:25:06.080 Georgia there was four kind of major educational institutions there. 0:25:06.119 --> 0:25:10.040 There's now more who have grown in their statue. But 0:25:10.200 --> 0:25:13.840 that left Mercer and I applied for uh to Mercer, 0:25:13.960 --> 0:25:17.919 I applied I made one application to one school. Uh. 0:25:18.080 --> 0:25:21.280 Those days were different. Now you gotta kinda make, you know, 0:25:21.359 --> 0:25:25.480 twenty applications. Anyway, I was, I learned what the word 0:25:25.520 --> 0:25:28.639 tentative meant. So I got accepted. But the word tentative 0:25:28.880 --> 0:25:32.320 was in this sentence, and I'm going, I really wish 0:25:32.400 --> 0:25:35.720 I knew for sure. Uh. Anyway, I got into mercer 0:25:35.800 --> 0:25:38.720 and it was it was a good experience and that 0:25:38.720 --> 0:25:45.040 that uh Uh. Interestingly, this plays into my my brother's 0:25:45.080 --> 0:25:48.440 at war uniform and uh in World War two, uh, 0:25:48.720 --> 0:25:52.160 closest brother uniform and he was he got a bronze 0:25:52.160 --> 0:25:55.720 bronze star for building schools in South Korea as they 0:25:55.720 --> 0:25:59.280 were cleaning minds up, you know, and then building schools 0:25:59.440 --> 0:26:04.280 and so uh, you know. And I'd worn uniform in 0:26:04.440 --> 0:26:06.919 RTC in high school. I didn't want to do it again. 0:26:07.680 --> 0:26:11.000 So first day of college, I get a letter from 0:26:11.240 --> 0:26:16.000 high school buddy who had gone into the Marine Corps. 0:26:16.680 --> 0:26:20.280 He wrote and said, dropped some class and go sign 0:26:20.359 --> 0:26:22.560 up for r OTC. You do not want to be 0:26:22.600 --> 0:26:26.320 an enlisted man in the service. And I did it. 0:26:26.920 --> 0:26:29.320 So I wore a uniform in college one day that week, 0:26:30.520 --> 0:26:33.840 and um, so you graduated, was there any war going 0:26:33.880 --> 0:26:36.159 on when you graduated. Not really, I kind of missed. 0:26:36.160 --> 0:26:38.320 I kind of I went. I guess I'm you know, 0:26:38.600 --> 0:26:42.399 UH participated when during during the Cold War, mainly I 0:26:42.480 --> 0:26:45.879 went to Turkey. I was near in Stanbull and that 0:26:46.080 --> 0:26:48.879 was fun um almost two years, not quiet. And then 0:26:48.880 --> 0:26:51.800 I came to California because everybody wants to go to California, 0:26:51.840 --> 0:26:55.280 of course, and I got my orders for California to 0:26:55.359 --> 0:26:57.800 Fort Irwin, and I don't know if you know where 0:26:57.840 --> 0:27:01.200 it was. I didn't either, so so I looked it up. 0:27:01.680 --> 0:27:06.760 Slap dab in the middle of the Mojave Desert. That's 0:27:06.760 --> 0:27:12.880 a long beach. Okay. So in the old days, if 0:27:12.920 --> 0:27:17.000 you were in r OTC okay, So then you had 0:27:17.000 --> 0:27:20.640 to go in the army for two years after exactly, okay. 0:27:20.680 --> 0:27:22.639 And that was the Army, not the Marine. I was 0:27:22.680 --> 0:27:26.280 a finance officer in head of finance department. So I 0:27:26.320 --> 0:27:29.399 had a nice office and you know, it's pretty pretty 0:27:29.400 --> 0:27:34.800 pretty neat job. And what did you study at Mercer? Uh? Economics, 0:27:34.840 --> 0:27:37.879 not just business vantage but economics, and what was the 0:27:37.880 --> 0:27:42.320